Re: [OSM-talk] Wheelchair accessibility

[Maarten Deen]

On 2017-09-20 23:10, john whelan wrote:

I was at a presentation yesterday evening about accessibility, well it
was free coffee what more can I say?

All Ottawa buses have two spaces for wheelchairs.  We map wheelchair
accessible toilets and other things for the map but we currently as
far as I am aware we don't include information on things that move.

Should we and how would you do it?

For example I understand in the UK there are problems at many railway
stations.  Perhaps mapping railway stations as being wheelchair
accessible or not would be a start.


Bus routes (public transport routes in general) get mapped with 
weelchair=yes. Totally acceptable to do so to signify that the route is 
accesible with a wheelchair.

E.g. http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4257112
I would map public transport nodes and ways (the platform and 
stop_position) with wheelchair too.


Maarten

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] License DB liée

[Nicolas Toublanc]

2017-09-20 10:22 GMT+02:00 Christian Quest :

> Le 19 septembre 2017 à 22:36, eMerzh  a écrit :
>
>> Hello à tous,
>>
>> j'ai reçu une quetsion et ne maitrisant pas trop le sujet je ne sais pas
>> trop où l'envoyerdonc voilà je tente ici (désolé si c'est raté)
>>
>> je voudrais faire une collection (genre) de tweet qui contiennent donc
>> lat, long
>> là dessus, moi j'écris un logiciel qui viens faire du reverse geo-coding
>> pr avoir les pays, villes ... basé sur une DB OSM.
>> Puis, j'utilise cette db pour faire une superbe webapp / website.
>>
>> quels sont mes obligations:
>> - créditer OSM ( je suppose que oui)
>>
>
> Oui !
>
>
>> - rendre cette db elle même sous ODBL pour les users de mon site/app
>>
>
> Pas nécessaire (mais tu peux), les community guidelines concernant le
> geocoding ont clarifié la situation des données géocodées ou reverse
> géocodées et le partage à l'identique n'est pas nécessaire pour une
> utilisation de ce type car tu ne recrée pas une base de données
> géographiques génériques (je fais simple).
>
>

Attention quand même à la licence des autres données en question.

Par exemple si ça vient de Twitter, tu as le droit d'utiliser
personnellement les données, mais pas de céder tes droits ni les rediffuser
sous une autre licence plus permissive:
https://dev.twitter.com/fr/overview/terms/agreement


>
>
>> - la mm chose mais pr tt le monde
>>
>
> Pareil
>
>
>> - rien de tout ça, ou autre ?
>>
>>
> Tu peux lire la version anglaise des guidelines: https://wiki.
> osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Community_Guidelines/Geocoding_-_Guideline
>
> et une traduction en français que j'ai mis sur framapad (pour l'améliorer
> ensemble):
> https://annuel2.framapad.org/p/guidelines-geocodage-osm
>
> --
> Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
>
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>


-- 
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@toubiweb 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Marc Gemis]

As for the Faroer Islands (https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4628) I see
some contradicting information there.The labels refer to an
archipelago, while the "is a" statement refers to an administrative
part of Denmark.

When an item has only 1 "is a" statement, it is not possible to refer
to 2 different concepts. However, it is possible to have to "is a"
statements on an item.

m.

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 6:02 PM, Christoph Hormann  wrote:
> On Wednesday 20 September 2017, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:
>>
>> This is most certainly a wrong modeling in Wikidata. While we can
>> just have one well-written and comprehensive Wikipedia article about
>> the country/archipelago, in Wikidata, one item should correspond to
>> one concept.
>
> Maybe - but even if that is the case the wikidata concept of a country
> or archipelago is not necessarily the same as in OSM.  For countries
> and archipelagos this might sound strange (an archipelago is an
> archipelago, right?) but as you surely know the meaning of tags in OSM
> can be quite peculiar in the way it develops over time based on mapping
> needs and it would be quite insane if wikidata copied all these
> peculiarities in their classification system.
>
> I don't know a lot about wikidata but as far as i can see every
> wikipedia article links to exactly one wikidata item and there are many
> geographic wikipedia articles that describe several different concepts
> together for which separate OSM features exist.
>
> --
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> http://www.imagico.de/
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Requesting to remove stoplines in San Jose

[Vivek Bansal]

Hey Peter,

I'd like to first say I didn't really know what your account was doing when
I saw those stop_lines, but I certainly see some value in them now.  I hope
your company stays engaged and keeps contributing to OpenStreetMap!

I think there is more value in having the ways re-tagged than having them
deleted.  I think one of the important things is that the road_marking ways
should be joined to any relevant intersecting ways (probably highways) with
a node (utilsplugin2 should help).

-Vivek



On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 10:12 AM peter flier  wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> This being my first post to this list, I hope it has gotten through. As
> Vivek has mentioned, we have a productive discussion about how best to
> address the digitization of stoplines and the havoc my approach has wrought
> upon all of you.
>
> First, let me say I am sorry that my initial incursion into the new
> feature type was so categorically disruptive to people's workflows. I had
> attempted to propose this feature as a free to the public service my
> company was going to be providing as a secondary result of our work. I
> scoured OSM for a proper feature type that could be used for this purpose
> and found nothing that quite lined up (pun intended!), so I proposed my own
> and moved forward with it. It was only afterwards that I was informed of
> the experimental road_marking feature type which would encompass nearly all
> of the stop lines I would be adding.
>
> If there are no objections to the re-tagging of these ways, I will move
> things over in bulk through JOSM and add future stop lines under the
> "road_marking= solid_stop_line" pairing.
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Uploading sidewalks in San Jose, California, US

[Vivek Bansal]

Stevea,

Thanks for the comments.  I don't think i'll ever be able to say the word
"license" again.

-Vivek

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 1:18 AM Minh Nguyen 
wrote:

> On 19/09/2017 23:44, OSM Volunteer stevea wrote:
> > Vivek Bansal <3viv...@gmail.com> writes:
> >> We are using the San Jose data which has an ODbL compliant license (and
> any government data in California has the same).
> >
> > I'm following the San José discussion and don't wish to get too
> technically legal:  I am not an attorney, though I have paid attention to
> the legal situation with state (of California) produced geo data and how
> our state "Open Data/Open Records" laws plus two fairly recent California
> Supreme Court decisions make state-published data roughly if not
> essentially equivalent to public domain.  These legal circumstances taken
> together with OSM's ODBL result in "be free to use the data, OSM, they are
> ODbL compliant."  It isn't exactly correct to use the word "license" in how
> California publishes geo data.  It IS correct that such data are "ODBL
> compliant."  It isn't a license that grants this, it is case law or stare
> decisis (Latin for "let the decision stand") which confirm such data
> published by the state comply with both statutory law (California Public
> Records Act, CPRA) and California's state constitution.  The bottom line is
> "the data are ODbL compliant" though it isn't via "license."
>
> Yes, we're aware of County of Santa Clara v. California First Amendment
> Coalition as it relates to the CPRA. The wiki page describing the import
> [1] currently states the source data's _copyright status_ as being in
> the public domain, steering clear of the term "license". Hopefully
> that'll be clear enough for the purposes of this import project.
>
> > From an OSM perspective, I suppose it can be said we are fortunate to
> have as much state (of California) published geo data available to us as we
> do; I certainly am grateful for these circumstances!
>
> Well said -- as someone who also maps in states with more restrictive
> copyright laws, it's been refreshing to be able to say "public domain",
> end of story.
>
> [1]
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Santa_Clara_County,_California/San_Jose_Sidewalk_Import
>
> --
> m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Simon Poole]

Am 20.09.2017 um 20:55 schrieb Yuri Astrakhan:

> While the WMF does not claim any rights in wikidata contents, it
> does not make any representations (one way or the other) as to
> third party rights in the data. As an illustration: you could dump
> all of OSM in to wikidata and the WMF would not need to change or
> do anything. 
>
>
> But the same works in reverse, doesn't it?  Wikidata project, just
> like WP and OSM, is user contributable. If a user uploads data that
> violates project's license, it should be deleted. And for that reason,
> both Wikidata and OSM state the license under which the data is
> contributed and shared. If I make an edit to OSM by copying data from
> Google, wouldn't that be the same thing?
The WMFs doctrine is that data (even more than one item) is not
protectable, the wording on the WD edit page is ambiguous and the ToU
don't really address the issue at all. Further the WMF is not known for
policing wikidata (contrary to the OSMF and OSM)  and it is doubtful if
it could even be done in any reasonable way. Skipping that lots of WD
data was originally derived from WP with its own set of issues.

That said, as long as we don't start using wikidata instead of data from
OSM contributors, it really is just the WMFs  problem. not ours. We
really really have better use for brain power than trying to fix the
WMFs problems for them.

>  
>
>> (CC0), but the reverse depends on if the OSM contributor agreed
>> to dedicate their edits to public domain.
> There is not really a practical and meaningful way in which an OSM
> contributor could do that, outside of facts that they have
> surveyed themselves and kept separate.
>
>
> How I hate to diverge from the main topic, but alas... :)  This does
> sound like a severe problem (that should be taken to a separate
> thread) - if I, as a user, set the Public Domain checkbox, my
> assumptions are that my contributions are PD. If I trace something
> based on some image data, I need to specify that source, otherwise I
> am in violation of the source's license. If I did not specify the
> source, and I checked the PD box, it can be assumed that I am donating
> under PD. If this is not the case, it is a violation of my
> contributor's rights - because otherwise my intention is not being
> honored (i want other people to be able to use my work unrestricted). 
> If anyone wants to comment, please start a new thread :)

This has really been beaten to death: at best the PD flag can be taken
as an indication of sentiment. Fixing it would require re-wording the
actual text, going back to 4 million odd users and asking them to
reconsider their choice. This however would not address the already
mentioned fundamental issues with data prior to such a change (assuming
that it would be practical to implement all the technical measures that
you are suggesting going forward) and further would still run afoul of
the fact that the OSMF doesn't have a mandate, is not even allowed, to
distribute contributed data on any other terms than those compatible
with the contributor terms.

NOT GOING TO HAPPEN (at least not on volunteer time).

Note on the side: If we were to undertake anything even remotely on the
scale of what the above would imply, it is likely that we would review
our current licence instead. However as has been pointed out many times
that would not result is us switching to a non-attribution licence (aka
CC0 or similar), so it wouldn't really help with wikidata compatibility.

>
>> Without it, OSM data is licensed under ODbL, and cannot be
>> copied. We should make it easier to detect what piece of OSM data
>> is in PD.  I do like your USB analogy :) About names - you will
>> be surprised to discover that MB and other places are actively
>> pursuing Wikidata integration because WD tends to have a huge
>> names list, possibly bigger than OSM itself?
>>
>>
> That is nice for MB, but problematic in more than one way for OSM.
>
> Please elaborate, I know of at least one more company that is actively
> doing that.   Sigh, another side topic :D

Very simple: use of wikidata is not declared and not obvious to the end
users, errors in wikidata get attributed to OSM but can't be fixed in
OSM, well can't be fixed without a lot of technical mumbo-jumbo that you
cannot expect non-seasoned hands to know. And even if the user in the
end finds out where to fix an issue, they are spending time fixing
wikidata, not OSM.

It is completely clear that we are in a competitive situation for mind
share, money and contributors (more exact: for contributors time) with
many other players. Now OSM proper has been loosing out big time on the
first point as of late, but luckily hasn't had great requirements on the
2nd (that is why we are still around), but even OSM is not so daft to
want a situation in which it actively has to redirect potential OSM
contributors to a third party to fix "its" core data.

Simon

PS: 

[Talk-ca] Gathering opinions on organized editing

[Martijn van Exel]

Hi US / CA mappers, 

The OSMF Data Working Group is currently conducting a community survey on 
‘organized editing’. It would be great if as many of you as possible could give 
them feedback. You can find the full post and a discussion thread here: 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2017-September/078726.html 


The survey is here:
https://osm-dwg.limequery.org/741554 

I hope you can all take the time to help the DWG and OSMF out; the results will 
guide a future OSMF policy on this topic. You are also more than welcome to 
join the discussion on talk@ or here. 

Best,
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[Talk-us] Gathering opinions on organized editing

[Martijn van Exel]

Hi US / CA mappers, 

The OSMF Data Working Group is currently conducting a community survey on 
‘organized editing’. It would be great if as many of you as possible could give 
them feedback. You can find the full post and a discussion thread here: 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2017-September/078726.html 


The survey is here:
https://osm-dwg.limequery.org/741554 

I hope you can all take the time to help the DWG and OSMF out; the results will 
guide a future OSMF policy on this topic. You are also more than welcome to 
join the discussion on talk@ or here. 

Best,
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Re: [OSM-talk] Wheelchair accessibility

[john whelan]

Bus stops yes wheelchair.org highlights them.  Do we map routes?  Here in
Ottawa both the numbers and the routes seem to change every three months.

Cheerio John

On 20 Sep 2017 5:40 pm, "Pierre Béland"  wrote:

> Would it be possible to add accessibility tags to both the bus stops and
> the bus routes? This would inform from where to where there is such
> accessibility.
>
>
> Pierre
>
>
> --
> *De :* john whelan 
> *À :* OpenStreetMap talk mailing list 
> *Envoyé le :* mercredi 20 Septembre 2017 17h13
> *Objet :* [OSM-talk] Wheelchair accessibility
>
> I was at a presentation yesterday evening about accessibility, well it was
> free coffee what more can I say?
>
> All Ottawa buses have two spaces for wheelchairs.  We map wheelchair
> accessible toilets and other things for the map but we currently as far as
> I am aware we don't include information on things that move.
>
> Should we and how would you do it?
>
> For example I understand in the UK there are problems at many railway
> stations.  Perhaps mapping railway stations as being wheelchair accessible
> or not would be a start.
>
> Thanks John
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>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Wheelchair accessibility

[john whelan]

If you look at wheelchair.org then zoom into an Ottawa bus stop it flags to
ask the question is it wheelchair accessible?

Perhaps that is the answer.  Tag all the OC transpo bus stops wheelchair
accessible?

Cheerio John

On 20 Sep 2017 5:17 pm, "James"  wrote:

> I don't think mapping things that move is apart of OSM, bus stations and
> bus stops can be tagged as such, but buses themselves can change at a
> moment's notice: change to a bus/train that doesn't have wheelchair
> equipment.
>
> On Sep 20, 2017 5:13 PM, "john whelan"  wrote:
>
>> I was at a presentation yesterday evening about accessibility, well it
>> was free coffee what more can I say?
>>
>> All Ottawa buses have two spaces for wheelchairs.  We map wheelchair
>> accessible toilets and other things for the map but we currently as far as
>> I am aware we don't include information on things that move.
>>
>> Should we and how would you do it?
>>
>> For example I understand in the UK there are problems at many railway
>> stations.  Perhaps mapping railway stations as being wheelchair accessible
>> or not would be a start.
>>
>> Thanks John
>>
>> ___
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>>
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Wheelchair accessibility

[Pierre Béland]

Would it be possible to add accessibility tags to both the bus stops and the 
bus routes? This would inform from where to where there is such accessibility.
  
Pierre 


  De : john whelan 
 À : OpenStreetMap talk mailing list  
 Envoyé le : mercredi 20 Septembre 2017 17h13
 Objet : [OSM-talk] Wheelchair accessibility
   
I was at a presentation yesterday evening about accessibility, well it was free 
coffee what more can I say?
All Ottawa buses have two spaces for wheelchairs.  We map wheelchair accessible 
toilets and other things for the map but we currently as far as I am aware we 
don't include information on things that move.
Should we and how would you do it?
For example I understand in the UK there are problems at many railway stations. 
 Perhaps mapping railway stations as being wheelchair accessible or not would 
be a start.
Thanks John___
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Re: [Talk-cz] OdBL a komercni vyuziti mapy Re: Import dat do QGisu

[Petr Kadlec]

2017-09-15 9:50 GMT+02:00 Vladimír Semotán :

> díky za reakci. Ten termín "derivative database" je dost zavádějící. Jsou
> to SHP soubory, které vytvořím z OSM, případně ještě upravím? Asi ano. Ale
> jsou to i 3D terény, které vygenerujeme?
>

3D terén jistě není databáze (terminologií českého AutZ „soubor nezávislých
děl, údajů nebo jiných prvků, systematicky nebo metodicky uspořádaných a
individuálně přístupných elektronickými nebo jinými prostředky“), tedy to
pochopitelně není ani odvozená databáze. Řečí ODbL je to „Produced Work“.


> Jsou v interním binárním formátu určeným pro rendering, který je ostatním
> v podstatě k ničemu.
>

No takže je nikdo jiný nepoužívá? V tom případě se jimi ODbL vůbec
nezabývá. Nebo nechápu.

Pokud „veřejně“ (tzn. konzumentem je někdo jiný než vaše firma) užíváte tu
databázi nebo díla na jejím základě vytvořená (třeba ty 3D terény), pak
*těm konzumentům* musíte zpřístupnit tu zdrojovou databázi pod ODbL
(potažmo tu odvozenou databázi pod ODbL).

ODbL *neznamená*, že pokud si od vás někdo koupí vyrenderovaný 3D terén,
máte okamžitě *povinnost* vystavit svou firemní databázi do internetu, aby
si ji mohl stáhnout kdokoli; znamená jen, že tu databázi musíte (pod ODbL)
nabídnout tomu zákazníkovi (který ji pak ovšem klidně do internetu vystavit
může).

IANAL, HTH

-- Petr Kadlec / Mormegil
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Yuri Astrakhan]

>
> people fixing WD won’t necessarily check if their fixes work well with
> OSM. Maybe we should include versions in our WD tags?
> I’ve seen OSM objects linked from WD, are there people monitoring changes
> to linked objects?
>
Yes, that's what the Wikidata+OSM service is for. It allows community to
create queries that verify various aspects of OSM objects as related to
Wikidata Objects. For example, if Wikidata object changes its "instance-of"
to disambig, the query would immediatelly flag corresponding OSM object as
having a problematic wiki link.

>
> I think it’s better to add the WD links slowly, verifying on a one by one
> basis that the objects describe the same thing. And having this done for
> some time I can tell that quite often WD items are very basic and defined
> besides their name only by the content of their WP article links, which in
> different languages not always describe the same thing/s.
> If you look into the things there’s a lot to fix in both projects, adding
> WD tags automatically in one go might help less than people doing it
> carefully and fixing the problems on the way.
>
> iD editor has been doing exactly that for substantial time.  Whenever user
adds a wikipedia tag, corresponding Wikidata tag is added automatically. I
seriously doubt there are any (or any at all) people who check that
wikidata ID is correct by hand.  Yet the number of errors that were caught
by cross-linking the data is very significant.
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[OSM-talk] Wheelchair accessibility

[john whelan]

I was at a presentation yesterday evening about accessibility, well it was
free coffee what more can I say?

All Ottawa buses have two spaces for wheelchairs.  We map wheelchair
accessible toilets and other things for the map but we currently as far as
I am aware we don't include information on things that move.

Should we and how would you do it?

For example I understand in the UK there are problems at many railway
stations.  Perhaps mapping railway stations as being wheelchair accessible
or not would be a start.

Thanks John
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 20. Sep 2017, at 17:37, Eugene Alvin Villar  wrote:
> 
> This is most certainly a wrong modeling in Wikidata. While we can just have 
> one well-written and comprehensive Wikipedia article about the 
> country/archipelago, in Wikidata, one item should correspond to one concept. 
> So there should be separate Wikidata items for the archipelago and the 
> country. The fact that it isn't like that right now is simply because 
> Wikidata is an ongoing project, just like OSM.


people fixing WD won’t necessarily check if their fixes work well with OSM. 
Maybe we should include versions in our WD tags?
I’ve seen OSM objects linked from WD, are there people monitoring changes to 
linked objects?


I think it’s better to add the WD links slowly, verifying on a one by one basis 
that the objects describe the same thing. And having this done for some time I 
can tell that quite often WD items are very basic and defined besides their 
name only by the content of their WP article links, which in different 
languages not always describe the same thing/s.
If you look into the things there’s a lot to fix in both projects, adding WD 
tags automatically in one go might help less than people doing it carefully and 
fixing the problems on the way.

cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [Talk-cz] Import dat do QGisu

[Vladimír Semotán]

Zdravím,
jo, počítám s tím, že tam ta obálka bude. Když ne, tak zkrátka smůla. Tohle
už mám zhruba naprogramované a zdá se, že funguje. Takže to je happy-end a
děkuji za rady:-). Teď jsem od geometrie trochu odbočil a připravuju
texturovací systém. To bude možná pro OSM premiéra. V těch 3D generátorech
alá f4map jsou jen prázdné zdi. Já naopak volím vždy nějakou texturu... i
kdyby to nebyla pravda :-).

Stejně ale bohužel pořád nevím, jestli nakonec OSM data budu moct použít.
Ta ODbL licence je dost krutá :-(. Už jen umístění budov na terén podle
nějakého DEM, který není free, znamená pravděpodobně nepoužitelnost.
Používáme i jiné databáze vázané různými licencemi. Je to zkrátka komerční
produkt (byť bez masové distribuce).

..no trochu jsem se rozpovídal.

Ještě jednou díky za reakce.

V.

Dne 20. září 2017 21:21 Jan Macura  napsal(a):

> Ahoj,
>
> 2017-09-20 15:24 GMT+02:00 jzvc :
>
>> Jeste dodam, takhle nejak to pak vypada, kdyz tam ta relace neni ...
>>
>> http://demo.f4map.com/#lat=50.0871190=14.420=20
>> =52.162=24.637
>>
>> je tam pekny - nonOSM model radnicni veze, a kolem visej ve vzduchu veze
>> OSM modelu, ktery nema relaci.
>
>
> Musel jsem otevřít JOSM a projít všechny tagy okolních objektů, abych
> usoudil, že ten model s texturama si tam F4 přidali sami.
> Nijak neobhajuju neexistenci building relace, ale zrovna v tomhle případě
> ty věžičky, co lítaj vzduchem, mohli odstranit z výsledku během
> preprocessingu dat...
>
> H.
>
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Re: [talk-latam] Terremoto 19 de Septiembre

[Gonzales, Miriam - (p)]

Hola Comunidad Mapera

Hay tareas de mapeo disponibles para el terremoto del 19 de Septiembre

http://bit.ly/MXEarthquakeMapping

Si quieren participar en la coordinación estamos en un canal de Telegram 
#TerremotoMexico

Saludos y gracias,

M

-Original Message-
From: Gonzales, Miriam - (p) 
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 6:19 PM
To: 'talk...@openstreetmap.org' ; 
'talk-latam@openstreetmap.org' 
Subject: Terremoto 19 de Septiembre


Hola Comunidad mapera,

Desafortunadamente  como ustedes saben otro terremoto acaba  de sacudir México, 
estamos abriendo tareas para agregar edificaciones en las zonas afectadas de la 
ciudad. En las próximas horas se estarán compartiendo zonas de los estados de 
Pueblo y Morelos

http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/3597

Gracias por ayudar,

M
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[Talk-dk] 20 fejl.

[Niels Elgaard Larsen]

Jeg har i de sidste par uger gennemgået rundkørsler, afkørsler og
udfletninger i Danmark.

Jeg har fundet en del ret alvorlige fejl, som alle drejer sig om
ensretninger.

Jeg har lavet et lille galleri med nogle af fejlene:

https://agol.dk/osm/fejlgal/

for at illustrere, hvad vi skal blive bedre til at opdage.
(alle de illustrerede fejl har jeg naturligvis allerede rettet i OSM)

For mange af fejlene har været der i mange år uden at nogen har opdaget dem.

Efterhånden som vi forfiner kortet, laver vi flere og flere korte
ensrettede vejstykker. Og så er det vigtigt, at vi er meget omhyggelige
med at vende ensretningerne rigtigt. For hvis vi gør det forkert, er det
tydeligvis svært at opdage. Nok fordi ruteberegnere altid vil rute os
udenom problemerne.

-- 
Niels Elgaard Larsen

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Re: [Talk-cz] Import dat do QGisu

[Jan Macura]

Ahoj,

2017-09-20 15:24 GMT+02:00 jzvc :

> Jeste dodam, takhle nejak to pak vypada, kdyz tam ta relace neni ...
>
> http://demo.f4map.com/#lat=50.0871190=14.420=20
> =52.162=24.637
>
> je tam pekny - nonOSM model radnicni veze, a kolem visej ve vzduchu veze
> OSM modelu, ktery nema relaci.


Musel jsem otevřít JOSM a projít všechny tagy okolních objektů, abych
usoudil, že ten model s texturama si tam F4 přidali sami.
Nijak neobhajuju neexistenci building relace, ale zrovna v tomhle případě
ty věžičky, co lítaj vzduchem, mohli odstranit z výsledku během
preprocessingu dat...

H.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Yuri Astrakhan]

>
> While the WMF does not claim any rights in wikidata contents, it does not
> make any representations (one way or the other) as to third party rights in
> the data. As an illustration: you could dump all of OSM in to wikidata and
> the WMF would not need to change or do anything.
>

But the same works in reverse, doesn't it?  Wikidata project, just like WP
and OSM, is user contributable. If a user uploads data that violates
project's license, it should be deleted. And for that reason, both Wikidata
and OSM state the license under which the data is contributed and shared.
If I make an edit to OSM by copying data from Google, wouldn't that be the
same thing?


> (CC0), but the reverse depends on if the OSM contributor agreed to
> dedicate their edits to public domain.
>
> There is not really a practical and meaningful way in which an OSM
> contributor could do that, outside of facts that they have surveyed
> themselves and kept separate.
>

How I hate to diverge from the main topic, but alas... :)  This does sound
like a severe problem (that should be taken to a separate thread) - if I,
as a user, set the Public Domain checkbox, my assumptions are that my
contributions are PD. If I trace something based on some image data, I need
to specify that source, otherwise I am in violation of the source's
license. If I did not specify the source, and I checked the PD box, it can
be assumed that I am donating under PD. If this is not the case, it is a
violation of my contributor's rights - because otherwise my intention is
not being honored (i want other people to be able to use my work
unrestricted).  If anyone wants to comment, please start a new thread :)

>
> Without it, OSM data is licensed under ODbL, and cannot be copied. We
> should make it easier to detect what piece of OSM data is in PD.  I do like
> your USB analogy :) About names - you will be surprised to discover that MB
> and other places are actively pursuing Wikidata integration because WD
> tends to have a huge names list, possibly bigger than OSM itself?
>
>
> That is nice for MB, but problematic in more than one way for OSM.
>
Please elaborate, I know of at least one more company that is actively
doing that.   Sigh, another side topic :D

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Simon Poole  wrote:

> [turning on broken record mode :-)]
> On 20.09.2017 17:54, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
>
>
>
> * Oleksiy, OSM can use any data from Wikidata because of the public domain
> dedication
>
> While the WMF does not claim any rights in wikidata contents, it does not
> make any representations (one way or the other) as to third party rights in
> the data. As an illustration: you could dump all of OSM in to wikidata and
> the WMF would not need to change or do anything.
>
> (CC0), but the reverse depends on if the OSM contributor agreed to
> dedicate their edits to public domain.
>
> There is not really a practical and meaningful way in which an OSM
> contributor could do that, outside of facts that they have surveyed
> themselves and kept separate.
>
> Without it, OSM data is licensed under ODbL, and cannot be copied. We
> should make it easier to detect what piece of OSM data is in PD.  I do like
> your USB analogy :) About names - you will be surprised to discover that MB
> and other places are actively pursuing Wikidata integration because WD
> tends to have a huge names list, possibly bigger than OSM itself?
>
>
> That is nice for MB, but problematic in more than one way for OSM.
>
> Simon
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Name challenge - what to call the new OSM+Wikidata service?

[Paul Johnson]

On Sun, Sep 17, 2017 at 12:42 AM, Jinal Foflia 
wrote:

> I'd suggest WOSM or WD-OSM :)
>

I think the World Organization for the Scouting Movement beat us to WOSM.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Simon Poole]

[turning on broken record mode :-)]

On 20.09.2017 17:54, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
>
>
> * Oleksiy, OSM can use any data from Wikidata because of the public
> domain dedication
While the WMF does not claim any rights in wikidata contents, it does
not make any representations (one way or the other) as to third party
rights in the data. As an illustration: you could dump all of OSM in to
wikidata and the WMF would not need to change or do anything.
> (CC0), but the reverse depends on if the OSM contributor agreed to
> dedicate their edits to public domain.
There is not really a practical and meaningful way in which an OSM
contributor could do that, outside of facts that they have surveyed
themselves and kept separate.

> Without it, OSM data is licensed under ODbL, and cannot be copied. We
> should make it easier to detect what piece of OSM data is in PD.  I do
> like your USB analogy :) About names - you will be surprised to
> discover that MB and other places are actively pursuing Wikidata
> integration because WD tends to have a huge names list, possibly
> bigger than OSM itself?
>
>
That is nice for MB, but problematic in more than one way for OSM.

Simon

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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On 20.09.17 18:35, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
One other thing: lets not build walls between different projects. I 
know its in a human nature to do that, but lets not.  In Wikipedia, 
every language is also a separate project, and there I also saw a lot 
of "this is not how we do things around here".


[...]


Here is how the same idea was expressed in a classical poem, probably 
one of the best written in English: https://youtu.be/DJBLG0FvFMM


The poem ends in lines:

‘Men work together,’ I told him from the heart,
‘Whether they work together or apart.’

brgds

O.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Stefano]

2017-09-20 19:07 GMT+02:00 Christoph Hormann :

>
>
> Don't assume such cases are just a freak anomaly - they are not.  OSM
> and wikidata are two very different projects which developed in very
> different contexts.  Just another example: For most cities and larger
> towns (at least in Germany) there exists an admin_level 6/8 unit with
> the same name and most of these seem to have a single wikidata item
> while in OSM we have two separate concepts for the populated place
> (place=city/town) and the administrative unit (boundary relation with
> boundary=administrative + admin_level=6/8).
>
> Hello Christoph,
this specific case was pointed out some time ago also on the italian
mailing list.
You're right on the issue, but on Wikidata recently someone created the
entity for the proper cities in Italy.
Here's the sparql query (all the objects which are marked capital of an
italian municipality)

http://tinyurl.com/yb2cjbae

Not all the municipalities have this property (6k objects instead of 8k)

> --
> Christoph Hormann
> http://www.imagico.de/
>

Ciao,
Stefano

>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Christoph Hormann]

On Wednesday 20 September 2017, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
>
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Municipalities_of_
>Germany
>
> I think if you suggest it there, they will be happy to add it,
> allowing OSM objects to be properly tagged. Or just contribute there
> :)

But i don't think there is anything wrong with how wikidata represents 
things - for Hamburg wikidata for example has a single item:

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1055

which represents both the administrative unit and the populated place - 
which is perfectly fine.  And OSM does differentiate between them which 
is also fine.

Why should i attempt to change their data model to be identical to that 
of OSM (which would be a hopeless endeavor anyway because how things 
are represented in OSM is constantly changing)?

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Yuri Astrakhan]

Also, there is a general country subdivision project with plenty of
information and current status.  I'm pretty sure OSM community has a lot of
good info to share:

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Country_subdivision

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Yuri Astrakhan 
wrote:

> Don't assume such cases are just a freak anomaly - they are not.  OSM
>> and wikidata are two very different projects which developed in very
>> different contexts.  Just another example: For most cities and larger
>> towns (at least in Germany) there exists an admin_level 6/8 unit with
>> the same name and most of these seem to have a single wikidata item
>> while in OSM we have two separate concepts for the populated place
>> (place=city/town) and the administrative unit (boundary relation with
>> boundary=administrative + admin_level=6/8).
>>
>> Christoph, Wikidata community has a project
>
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_
> Municipalities_of_Germany
>
> I think if you suggest it there, they will be happy to add it, allowing
> OSM objects to be properly tagged. Or just contribute there :)
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Yuri Astrakhan]

>
> Don't assume such cases are just a freak anomaly - they are not.  OSM
> and wikidata are two very different projects which developed in very
> different contexts.  Just another example: For most cities and larger
> towns (at least in Germany) there exists an admin_level 6/8 unit with
> the same name and most of these seem to have a single wikidata item
> while in OSM we have two separate concepts for the populated place
> (place=city/town) and the administrative unit (boundary relation with
> boundary=administrative + admin_level=6/8).
>
> Christoph, Wikidata community has a project

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Municipalities_of_Germany

I think if you suggest it there, they will be happy to add it, allowing OSM
objects to be properly tagged. Or just contribute there :)
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[Talk-us] Requesting to remove stoplines in San Jose

[peter flier]

Hello everyone,

This being my first post to this list, I hope it has gotten through. As
Vivek has mentioned, we have a productive discussion about how best to
address the digitization of stoplines and the havoc my approach has wrought
upon all of you.

First, let me say I am sorry that my initial incursion into the new feature
type was so categorically disruptive to people's workflows. I had attempted
to propose this feature as a free to the public service my company was
going to be providing as a secondary result of our work. I scoured OSM for
a proper feature type that could be used for this purpose and found nothing
that quite lined up (pun intended!), so I proposed my own and moved forward
with it. It was only afterwards that I was informed of the experimental
road_marking feature type which would encompass nearly all of the stop
lines I would be adding.

If there are no objections to the re-tagging of these ways, I will move
things over in bulk through JOSM and add future stop lines under the
"road_marking= solid_stop_line" pairing.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Christoph Hormann]

On Wednesday 20 September 2017, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
>
> Christoph, a valid point. Yet the duplicate would allow finding many
> of these errors, rather than leaving wp-only to go bad due to
> changing nature of the WP articles.

Actually no - you can find the errors just as well without adding the 
wikidata tags to OSM as after doing so.

The perpetuation of errors is one of the primary reasons why mechanical 
edits are often not considered favorably in OSM.

> As for sameness argument - lets 
> try to work on them on a case-by-case basis.

I don't really want to argue this here - as said i have no objections 
against having wikipedia/wikidata tags as references for 'related 
features' but many treat these references under the assumption that 
they indicate identical real world concepts exist on both ends - or 
even worth: they might think a lack of identity is an indication for a 
factual error in the data on one side.  I wanted to point out that this 
is a fundamentally incorrect assumption.

Don't assume such cases are just a freak anomaly - they are not.  OSM 
and wikidata are two very different projects which developed in very 
different contexts.  Just another example: For most cities and larger 
towns (at least in Germany) there exists an admin_level 6/8 unit with 
the same name and most of these seem to have a single wikidata item 
while in OSM we have two separate concepts for the populated place 
(place=city/town) and the administrative unit (boundary relation with 
boundary=administrative + admin_level=6/8).

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [Talk-it] SMAU Milano 2017 - le Community a SMAU-ICT

[Volker Schmidt]

Sarei interessato e disponibile.
Penso di poter rappresentare OSM per il cicloturismo e Mapillary per OSM

Volker



2017-09-20 16:53 GMT+02:00 Alessandro Palmas :

> Salve lista,
> mi è arrivata la proposta per la partecipazione di OSM allo SMAU nell'area
> community.
> Come potete leggere sotto non è obbligatorio presidiare tutti i tre giorni
> e le singole persone potrebbero partecipare anche un solo giorno.
> Datemi qualche feedback entro qualche giorno (diciamo per martedì prossimo
> 26 settembre) per capire se ne vale la pena. Per cortesia però, solo
> persone motivate. Indicate quale o quali giorni sareste disponibili e se
> avete qualche conoscenza specifica.
>
> CIT.: "... L'area community è pensata per creare un momento di networking
> tra community, user group e associazioni inerenti all'ambito ICT.
> Il format è un'area con tavoli e sedie dove ciascuna community avrà la
> propria postazione e potrà così interagire con le altre.
> Ciascuna associazione può decidere se presidiare l'area tutti e tre i
> giorni o nei giorni in cui è disponibile ed è a titolo gratuito.
> Inoltre, ogni giorno la community cambierà di posto così da favorire il
> networking con più community possibili."
>
> Grazie
>   Alessandro Ale_Zena_IT
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Yuri Astrakhan]

One other thing: lets not build walls between different projects. I know
its in a human nature to do that, but lets not.  In Wikipedia, every
language is also a separate project, and there I also saw a lot of "this is
not how we do things around here".

Each project is ran by people.  Most people contribute to more than one
project, so lets not say "they do X, but we do Y", because often "they and
us" is the same person. Obviously some rules differ, and we should respect
that, but (I hope) most of us dedicate our volunteer time because we
believe in the general principal:  making knowledge available to everyone
freely.  OSM concentrates on geographical knowledge. Wikidata - on
classification.  Wikipedia - on descriptions.  All three, as a sum, can be
much greater than each one separately.  Lets keep that in mind when we
think how we can coexist better, and how to reduce the overlap.  Keeping
duplicates in sync is always harder than to let the tools do their data
merging work if needed.

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 12:18 PM, Yuri Astrakhan 
wrote:

> Tobias, agree 100%, thanks.
>
> On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 12:14 PM, Tobias Knerr 
> wrote:
>
>> On 20.09.2017 17:02, Christoph Hormann wrote:
>> > It is best to regard the wikidata and wikipedia tags in OSM as 'related
>> > features' rather than identical objects.
>>
>> We shouldn't dilute the definition of the key because some incorrect
>> links exist in the database. If there's no 1:1 relationship between OSM
>> element and Wikidata item, and this cannot be fixed by editing Wikidata,
>> then no wikidata tag should be added.
>>
>> > These provide useful sources
>> > to research additional information (in particular wikipedia articles
>> > often link to additional sources)
>>
>> Sure, but the wikidata key is for "the Wikidata item about the feature",
>> not any related content that may be interesting.
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Yuri Astrakhan]

Tobias, agree 100%, thanks.

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 12:14 PM, Tobias Knerr  wrote:

> On 20.09.2017 17:02, Christoph Hormann wrote:
> > It is best to regard the wikidata and wikipedia tags in OSM as 'related
> > features' rather than identical objects.
>
> We shouldn't dilute the definition of the key because some incorrect
> links exist in the database. If there's no 1:1 relationship between OSM
> element and Wikidata item, and this cannot be fixed by editing Wikidata,
> then no wikidata tag should be added.
>
> > These provide useful sources
> > to research additional information (in particular wikipedia articles
> > often link to additional sources)
>
> Sure, but the wikidata key is for "the Wikidata item about the feature",
> not any related content that may be interesting.
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Tobias Knerr]

On 20.09.2017 17:02, Christoph Hormann wrote:
> It is best to regard the wikidata and wikipedia tags in OSM as 'related 
> features' rather than identical objects.

We shouldn't dilute the definition of the key because some incorrect
links exist in the database. If there's no 1:1 relationship between OSM
element and Wikidata item, and this cannot be fixed by editing Wikidata,
then no wikidata tag should be added.

> These provide useful sources 
> to research additional information (in particular wikipedia articles 
> often link to additional sources)

Sure, but the wikidata key is for "the Wikidata item about the feature",
not any related content that may be interesting.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Yuri Astrakhan]

>
> What will inevitably happen if you automatically add wikidata tags is
> that existing errors in either OSM (in form of incorrect wikipedia
> tags) or in wikidata (in form of incorrect connections to wikipedia
> articles) will get duplicated.
>

Christoph, a valid point. Yet the duplicate would allow finding many of
these errors, rather than leaving wp-only to go bad due to changing nature
of the WP articles. As for sameness argument - lets try to work on them on
a case-by-case basis. The vast majority of concepts are "good enough" - if
a park is tagged with the wikidata id for that park, and someone extends it
to add a few more trees, its not a big problem. If that edit combines two
parks into one, eventually it would get fixed, with two parks being
created.  And no, we won't be able to solve every edge case, but we will
solve it for the vast majority of them. After all, a map is an
approximation of the real world, not a perfect replica.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Christoph Hormann]

On Wednesday 20 September 2017, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:
>
> This is most certainly a wrong modeling in Wikidata. While we can
> just have one well-written and comprehensive Wikipedia article about
> the country/archipelago, in Wikidata, one item should correspond to
> one concept.

Maybe - but even if that is the case the wikidata concept of a country 
or archipelago is not necessarily the same as in OSM.  For countries 
and archipelagos this might sound strange (an archipelago is an 
archipelago, right?) but as you surely know the meaning of tags in OSM 
can be quite peculiar in the way it develops over time based on mapping 
needs and it would be quite insane if wikidata copied all these 
peculiarities in their classification system.

I don't know a lot about wikidata but as far as i can see every 
wikipedia article links to exactly one wikidata item and there are many 
geographic wikipedia articles that describe several different concepts 
together for which separate OSM features exist.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Christoph Hormann]

On Wednesday 20 September 2017, Frederik Ramm wrote:
>
> Does that mean that the original plan of "fetching" (dare I say
> importing) 200k Wikidata links through automated connections from
> existing Wikipedia links is (a) dangerous because you can easily
> obtain a reference to something totally different, or (b) no problem
> because it is *to be expected* that an object's Wikipedia and
> Wikidata links point to different things an hence the import wouldn't
> introduce "errors" per se?

It all depends on how you use the data.  I think adding the wikidata 
tags is fine *because* i regard them as simple references to related 
features but if you'd insist on the idea that the OSM feature and the 
wikidata item refer to the same real world feature then inferring such 
an identity from an existing wikipedia tag is even more problematic - 
because the wikipedia tag was almost certainly not originally verified 
to refer to exactly the same concept as the OSM object.

Also keep in mind that both the OSM features and the wikidata items 
evolve over time and not every edit made in OSM (like extending the 
area of a forest polygon to include some additional tree covered area) 
is necessarily verified to still justify having the wikidata reference.

What will inevitably happen if you automatically add wikidata tags is 
that existing errors in either OSM (in form of incorrect wikipedia 
tags) or in wikidata (in form of incorrect connections to wikipedia 
articles) will get duplicated.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Yuri Astrakhan]

Such an awesome discussion, thanks!

* https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:GoToLinkedPage can already be used
to open a Wikipedia page when you only have a Wikidata ID.  It even accepts
a list of wiki sites. For example, this link automatically opens the wiki
page for Q3669 in the first available language ("pt" in this case)

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:GoToLinkedPage?itemid=Q3669=enwiki,ptwiki

* Sarah, thanks for the heads up about Nominatim using Wikipedia tags.  I
recently added page popularity (pageviews) to the OSM+Wikidata service.
Another metric is the number of Wikipedia articles in different languages
per topic (sitelinks count).  Together, they can be used to calculate
relative weights.

* I am a bit radical, but not enough to propose we get rid wikipedia tags
just yet.  They sometimes provide a good indication of the original
intent.  Once Wikidata is used in all the tooling, we may revisit, but not
until then.  But yes, wikipedia tags are very unstable, especially when
articles get renamed because multiple places have identical names, thus
creating a link to disambig. So in general, they often go stale and become
less useful without any indication.

* Oleksiy, OSM can use any data from Wikidata because of the public domain
dedication (CC0), but the reverse depends on if the OSM contributor agreed
to dedicate their edits to public domain. Without it, OSM data is licensed
under ODbL, and cannot be copied. We should make it easier to detect what
piece of OSM data is in PD.  I do like your USB analogy :) About names -
you will be surprised to discover that MB and other places are actively
pursuing Wikidata integration because WD tends to have a huge names list,
possibly bigger than OSM itself?

* Christoph, a very valid point in general. Do you have any statistics on
how often multiple meanings per osm object is a problem? In my experience,
this is very rare, but hard to say without numbers.  For the case of the
island being both a country and a land feature, I think it would benefit
OSM to actually have two objects with the same geometry - e.g. two
relations containing the same way(s).  One relation would treat it as an
admin boundary, with all the related tags, the other - as a land feature.
Data consumers would treat them separately. Conflating tags related to both
concepts into one object is not very good.  In a more general terms, you
usually have three cases:
-- 1:1 (most common imo)
-- one osm obj being a part of larger page (e.g. a list of churches). I
don't think wikidata/wikipedia tag is appropriate in this case, as that
page is not about this specific object, but about a class of similar
objects. We could use listed-on:wp, or partof:wp, or some other tag.
-- Your case - multiple concepts for the same object. Use either a
semicolon separated list of wd ids, or (better) - create multiple relations
to describe multiple concepts.

* Frederik, that bit of a small personal attack is uncalled for. I exposed
a lot of existing bad data, not added it. And I created complex tooling to
help everyone resolve it as a community, rather than try to tackle all of
it by myself.  A system for fixing problems is always better than one
person doing it by hand, and later retiring because the challenge is too
great.  Also, corresponding wikidata tag is not a bad data - it is simply a
copy of the existing Wikipedia tag, making it easier for tools and humans
to find and fix. As for your last email - fetching *corresponding* wikidata
items is not an error - its a duplicate of an existing information. That
information might be incomplete, but that's a separate issue.

* Lester, I'm not sure I understood your Douglas Adams example, PM me and
lets try to figure it out. It might has to do with ranking of each statement

See also:
Feature request for any lang fallback:
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T176321
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 11:02 PM, Christoph Hormann  wrote:

> Simple example:  The Faroe Islands are both a country:
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/52939
>
> and an archipelago:
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/3067431
>
> in OSM which are represented as separate features obviously.  Both
> reference the same wikidata item [...]
>

This is most certainly a wrong modeling in Wikidata. While we can just have
one well-written and comprehensive Wikipedia article about the
country/archipelago, in Wikidata, one item should correspond to one
concept. So there should be separate Wikidata items for the archipelago and
the country. The fact that it isn't like that right now is simply because
Wikidata is an ongoing project, just like OSM.

As an example, we have the island of Bali (
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4648) versus the province of Bali (
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3125978), though there is only just one
English Wikipedia article covering both concepts:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bali
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 20.09.2017 17:02, Christoph Hormann wrote:
> It is best to regard the wikidata and wikipedia tags in OSM as 'related 
> features' rather than identical objects.  These provide useful sources 
> to research additional information (in particular wikipedia articles 
> often link to additional sources) but you should never try to fix or 
> add something in OSM - be that a name tag or coordinates - based purely 
> on the assumption that the wikidata object referenced via tag is the 
> same as the OSM feature.

Does that mean that the original plan of "fetching" (dare I say
importing) 200k Wikidata links through automated connections from
existing Wikipedia links is (a) dangerous because you can easily obtain
a reference to something totally different, or (b) no problem because it
is *to be expected* that an object's Wikipedia and Wikidata links point
to different things an hence the import wouldn't introduce "errors" per se?

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Christoph Hormann]

On Wednesday 20 September 2017, Frederik Ramm wrote:
>
> If the Wikidata ID can be fetched automatically based on the
> Wikipedia tag, can we delete the Wikipedia tags from everything that
> has Wikidata afterwards because it is redundant?

This idea stems from the widespread view that a wikipedia article, a 
wikidata item and an OSM feature refer to the same real world entity 
just because they reference each other.

This is not generally the case - and it can't be since what makes 
something a certain feature with certain tags in OSM differs 
fundamentally from what constitutes a certain class of objects in 
wikidata or what a certain wikipedia article describes.

Simple example:  The Faroe Islands are both a country:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/52939

and an archipelago:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/3067431

in OSM which are represented as separate features obviously.  Both 
reference the same wikidata item and all the blind automated name 
adding activities based on wikidata will not differentiate between 
names that apply to the archipelago and names of the country (which are 
not necessarily always the same in all languages).

It is best to regard the wikidata and wikipedia tags in OSM as 'related 
features' rather than identical objects.  These provide useful sources 
to research additional information (in particular wikipedia articles 
often link to additional sources) but you should never try to fix or 
add something in OSM - be that a name tag or coordinates - based purely 
on the assumption that the wikidata object referenced via tag is the 
same as the OSM feature.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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[Talk-it] SMAU Milano 2017 - le Community a SMAU-ICT

[Alessandro Palmas]

  
  
Salve lista,
mi è arrivata la proposta per la partecipazione di OSM allo SMAU
nell'area community.
Come potete leggere sotto non è obbligatorio presidiare tutti i tre
giorni e le singole persone potrebbero partecipare anche un solo
giorno.
Datemi qualche feedback entro qualche giorno (diciamo per martedì
prossimo 26 settembre) per capire se ne vale la pena. Per cortesia
però, solo persone motivate. Indicate quale o quali giorni sareste
disponibili e se avete qualche conoscenza specifica.

CIT.: "... L'area community è pensata per creare un momento di
networking tra community, user group e associazioni inerenti
all'ambito ICT. 
Il format è un'area con tavoli e sedie dove ciascuna community avrà
la propria postazione e potrà così interagire con le altre.
Ciascuna associazione può decidere se presidiare l'area tutti e tre
i giorni o nei giorni in cui è disponibile ed è a titolo gratuito.
Inoltre, ogni giorno la community cambierà di posto così da favorire
il networking con più community possibili."

Grazie
  Alessandro Ale_Zena_IT
  


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Re: [talk-latam] [GPSDD Partners] RE: URGENT Earthquake Mexico City

[Rebecca Firth]

Hola,

Posiblemente has visto las communicaciones. Hay una activacion de HOT para
este terremoto. En este momento, la tarea es:
http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/3597

Gracias,

Rebecca

On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 5:35 PM, Javier Carranza <
javier.carra...@geocensos.com> wrote:

> Ok, de acuerdo de mi parte si con eso funciona la cooperación.
>
> Alonso Ortiz es quien recibió el pedido original de presidencia. Entiendo
> que Miriam está solicitando ayuda a través de Digital Globe, por lo que
> quizás convenga que ella se ponga en contacto también.
>
> Slds
>
>
>
> [image: geocensos]
> *Javier Carranza** Tresoldi** CEO*
>
> *, GeoCensos@geocensos*Skype: javiercarranza
>
> *Lets map together a better world*
>  [image: Twitter]
>  [image: LinkedIn]
> 
>
> "La información aquí contenida es para uso exclusivo de la persona o
> entidad de destino. Está estrictamente prohibida su utilización, copia,
> descarga, distribución, modificación y/o reproducción total o parcial, sin
> el permiso expreso del representante legal de Fundación Geocensos, pues
> su contenido puede ser de carácter confidencial y/o contener material
> privilegiado. Si usted recibió esta información por error, por favor
> contacte en forma inmediata a quien la envió y borre este material de su
> computador. La Fundación GeoCensos no es responsable por la información
> contenida en esta comunicación, el directo responsable es quien la firma o
> el autor de la misma."
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Alonso Ortiz Galan 
> Date: Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 4:02 PM
> Subject: [GPSDD Partners] RE: URGENT Earthquake Mexico City
> To:
> Cc: "enrique.zap...@presidencia.gob.mx" ,
> "jorge.d...@presidencia.gob.mx" , "
> andres.go...@datos.mx" 
>
>
> Dear Partners,
>
>
>
> *Enrique Zapata, General Director of Open Data from the Office of the
> President of Mexico* just sent a message to share with the Global
> Partnership. Please answer to him directly if you want to support at
> enrique.zap...@presidencia.gob.mx , as well as to Cc’ed colleagues.
>
>
>
> Dear friends,
>
>
>
> *Mexico has just suffered a new 7.1 earthquake, with affected zones mainly
> in Mexico City and Puebla.*
>
>
>
> I am calling all GPSDD partners that could have high quality satellite
> images, or can activate your satellites and donate images of Mexico City
> and Puebla so as to help us in the Mexican Government to map and understand
> the degree of damage.
>
>
>
> Thank you very much in advance,
>
> Enrique Zapata
>
>
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> AOG
>
>
>
> Alonso Ortiz Galan
>
> Community Engagement Manager
>
> Global Partnership for Sustainable Development Data
>
> T. +1.646.559.6998 <%2B1.202.821.2855>
>
> M. +1.646.842.9128 <%2B1.202.821.2855>
>
> *@aortizgalan *
>
>
>
> *We convene. **We connect. We catalyze.* *Join us
> **!*
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "GPSDD Partners" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to partners+unsubscr...@data4sdgs.org.
> To post to this group, send email to partn...@data4sdgs.org.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/da
> ta4sdgs.org/d/msgid/partners/SN1PR08MB1951181F054BFA7E14709D
> 2292600%40SN1PR08MB1951.namprd08.prod.outlook.com
> 
> .
>
>
> ___
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>


-- 
*Rebecca Firth*
Community and Partnerships Manager
rebecca.fi...@hotosm.org 
@RebeccaFirthy
Skype: rebeccafirth

*Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team*
*Using OpenStreetMap for Humanitarian Response & Economic Development*
web  | twitter  | facebook
 | donate 

*Join us at the 2017 HOT Summit!  | 14-15
September | Ottawa*
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Re: [Talk-it] Probabile violazione vedetta.org

[Alessandro Palmas]

  
  
Il 20/09/2017 15:57, John Doe ha
  scritto:


  Buongiorno, 


il sito in oggetto mi sembra proprio utilizzare
  mappe OSM (provate a zoomare) ma non vedo attribuzione. Es. : http://www.vedetta.org/index.php/stazioni-meteo/lazio/roma-torvaianica
  


Se ti riferisci alla seconda mappa (la prima usa G) è un frame html
contenente la mappa di windy.com la quale era stata segnalata qui
sopra una quindicina di giorni fa e a cui ho rinnovato la richiesta
di attribuire la mappa (1).
Ora rinnovo l'invito in maniera più pressante.

Alessandro Ale_Zena_IT 


1) https://community.windy.com/topic/3353/map-correction/6
  


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[Talk-it] Probabile violazione vedetta.org

[John Doe]

Buongiorno,

il sito in oggetto mi sembra proprio utilizzare mappe OSM (provate a
zoomare) ma non vedo attribuzione. Es. :
http://www.vedetta.org/index.php/stazioni-meteo/lazio/roma-torvaianica
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Re: [Talk-cz] Import dat do QGisu

[jzvc]

Dne 20.9.2017 v 14:12 jzvc napsal(a):

Dne 6.9.2017 v 22:47 Jan Macura napsal(a):

Ahoj,

2017-09-06 15:37 GMT+02:00 Vladimír Semotán >:

Ale teď jsem narazil na tohle:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Simple_3D_buildings#Building_outlines



(Building Outlines)..to bude asi ono. Budu muset prostě detekovat,
které "building:part" jsou uvnitř té či oné "building" a podle toho
se zařídit.


jistější je postup: detekovat, která building:part= je uvnitř které
building=, ale na některých místech existuje i relace typu building,
která to právě všechno drží pohromadě, zvlášť u případů, kdy třeba část
budovy z nějakého důvodu není uvnitř půdorysu (použito třeba zde:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6721018).

H.


Cus, spravne by tam v pripade, ze se budova sklada z vice prvku, ta
"obalova" relace mela byt vzdy. Jina vec je, zda i ve skutecnosti je,
ale pokud neni, je to chyba.



Jeste dodam, takhle nejak to pak vypada, kdyz tam ta relace neni ...

http://demo.f4map.com/#lat=50.0871190=14.420=20=52.162=24.637

je tam pekny - nonOSM model radnicni veze, a kolem visej ve vzduchu veze 
OSM modelu, ktery nema relaci.




A ad outline ... to je vpodstate primarne urceno pro 2D reneder = tohle
vykresli jako budovu, a na zbytek prvku kasli.




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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Simon Poole]

Am 20.09.2017 um 15:02 schrieb Oleksiy Muzalyev:
> I apologize for ignorance, but what is MB? I also did not understand 
> - what is more neutral? Adding the wikidata tag or wikipedia &
> wikimedia tag?
MB==Mapbox. For now retaining the WP link seems to be in our best
interest as otherwise it requires a data consumer to use wikidata to get
a useful reference to wikipedia (see for example the use in Nominatim as
Sarah has pointed out). Naturally from a pure CS pov that is naturally
unnecessary redundancy, but we have that all over the place.

Simon


>
> I noticed during disambiguation error corrections that some of these
> errors appear when a  Wikipedia article was renamed, but only in the
> Wikipedia, and not in the OSM. Wikipedia articles are being renamed
> quite often, for example when a town was renamed.
>
> As far as I know wikidata items are not renamed. Wikidata item tag is
> only 7 characters, while wikipedia or wikimedia link could be dozens
> of characters. So it takes less space in the database, it is easy to
> export, etc.
>
> Best regards,
> Oleksiy
>
> On 9/20/2017 2:31 PM, Simon Poole wrote:
>> You raise an important point.
>>
>> I've commented before, years back in the mean time, on the push to move
>> information out of OSM in to a third party product over which have no
>> control and which, if we are not careful, could impact the value of what
>> we in OSM are doing and distributing (just see MBs use of wikidata in
>> lieu of OSM place names). It would further be very naive to not see the
>> competitive angle of what is happening here.
>>
>> On the other hand lots of the wikidata related additions would seem to
>> be fairly neutral (WD references additionally to WP links and so on).
>>
>> Simon
>




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[Talk-dk] National Cykelrute 8: nyt forløb

[Andreas Hammershøj]

Hej OSM'ere,
om en uges tid begynder jeg efter planen at indtegne nyt forløb for
ovenstående rute:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/20828#map=9/54.9003/10.3065=H

Jeg gør det for Vejdirektoratet som har ansvaret for ruten og som bruger
OSM's ruteforløb som det officielle kortgrundlag for samtlige nationale
ruter.

Ikke alle kommuner har fået skiltet det nye forløb færdig endnu og dem vil
jeg så vidt muligt undgå indtil det de er færdige. Vi kan dog komme ud for
at der på kortere strækninger i en periode vil være forskel på den
officielle rute og skiltningen i virkeligheden. Jeg håber det er ok med
fælleskabet og vil opfordre til at kontakte mig før man selv retter ruten
tilbage til det gamle forløb.

vh

Andreas
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

I apologize for ignorance, but what is MB? I also did not understand  - 
what is more neutral? Adding the wikidata tag or wikipedia & wikimedia tag?


I noticed during disambiguation error corrections that some of these 
errors appear when a  Wikipedia article was renamed, but only in the 
Wikipedia, and not in the OSM. Wikipedia articles are being renamed 
quite often, for example when a town was renamed.


As far as I know wikidata items are not renamed. Wikidata item tag is 
only 7 characters, while wikipedia or wikimedia link could be dozens of 
characters. So it takes less space in the database, it is easy to 
export, etc.


Best regards,
Oleksiy

On 9/20/2017 2:31 PM, Simon Poole wrote:

You raise an important point.

I've commented before, years back in the mean time, on the push to move
information out of OSM in to a third party product over which have no
control and which, if we are not careful, could impact the value of what
we in OSM are doing and distributing (just see MBs use of wikidata in
lieu of OSM place names). It would further be very naive to not see the
competitive angle of what is happening here.

On the other hand lots of the wikidata related additions would seem to
be fairly neutral (WD references additionally to WP links and so on).

Simon



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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Andy Mabbett]

On 20 September 2017 at 12:50, JB  wrote:
> Le 20/09/2017 à 13:05, Oleksiy Muzalyev a écrit :

>> It would give a boost to the Wikidata project.
>
> Am I really reading from an OSM mailing list here?

Yes. I read that as "the project at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wikidata " and not "the project at
https://www.wikidata.org/ ".

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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Andy Mabbett]

On 20 September 2017 at 00:56, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> On 09/19/2017 10:03 PM, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:

>> I would like to auto-add all the
>> corresponding wikidata based on wikipedia, for all remaining objects,
>> using  JOSM's "Fetch Wikidata IDs".
>
> If the Wikidata ID can be fetched automatically based on the Wikipedia
> tag, can we delete the Wikipedia tags from everything that has Wikidata
> afterwards because it is redundant?

Technically, yes, but some in the community have objected to that being done.

>> This way, we will be able to quickly find all the objects that are
>> problematic with the Wikidata+OSM service.
>
> Adding problematic data to OSM in order to have it fixed is never a good
> idea.

That is not what is proposed. It will highlight bad data (Wikipedia
links) that is *already* in OSM.

>> For example, thanks to the
>> community, we already fixed over 600 incorrect links to wiki
>> disambiguations pages,
>
> But this would have been possible without importing the data first?

Not as easily, nor as quickly.

>> We will be
>> able to fix when things are tagged as people (e.g. wikidata -> person,
>> instead of subject:wikidata -> person),
>
> I don't understand; you say that you want to add the wikidata tag to OSM
> and only afterwards can you find problems like this?

Again, this is where OSM already has a bad Wikipedia link.

>> find location errors (e.g.
>> wikidata and OSM point to very different locations, implying that its an
>> incorrect link).
>
> Again, OpenStreetMap is not a workbench for importing and then fixing
> non-OSM data (even if it may look convenient). Please build a QA process
> based on the un-imported data and import it once you have fixed the
> problems.

And again; this is for bad data that is already in OSM.

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Andy Mabbett]

On 19 September 2017 at 23:31, Yuri Astrakhan  wrote:

>> The commonest error I have found is wikidata=Qnnn instead of
>> brand:wikidata=Qnnn for franchises like McDonalds and petrol stations.
>>
> Andy, I agree - there are many ones like that, all around the globe.  I know
> that in Israel, @SwiftFast uses a template to keep them in sync for gas
> stations and ATMs, but we need a more generic solution.

They should be easy to find by looking for items with the same QID,
but geographically remote from each other.

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Simon Poole]

You raise an important point.

I've commented before, years back in the mean time, on the push to move
information out of OSM in to a third party product over which have no
control and which, if we are not careful, could impact the value of what
we in OSM are doing and distributing (just see MBs use of wikidata in
lieu of OSM place names). It would further be very naive to not see the
competitive angle of what is happening here.

On the other hand lots of the wikidata related additions would seem to
be fairly neutral (WD references additionally to WP links and so on). 

Simon


Am 20.09.2017 um 13:50 schrieb JB:
> Le 20/09/2017 à 13:05, Oleksiy Muzalyev a écrit :
>> It would give a boost to the Wikidata project.
> Am I really reading from an OSM mailing list here?
> I can imagine the time when you will not be able to parse an osm
> extract offline, without reading data from external databases.
> JB.
>
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[OSM-talk] Earthquake in Mexico

[Fredy Rivera]

Mapperos, as you know, occurred an earthquake magnitude 7.1 in Mexico.

At the request of the presidency of that country and in coordination with
OCHA, the Humanitarian Mapping Unit of Colombia, has requested the
activation of the disasterscharter [0]  for that event,

The activation has been accepted, which is why the mapping task [1]
proposed for the earthquake is more relevant, since the pre-disaster
information that will be used will be used for the damage analysis.

Therefore we ask you to help us map in this task and if possible organize
mapathon with your local teams.

We appreciate the timely collaboration.

Cordially,
Fredy Rivera
President OSM Foundation Colombia
Coordinator Humanitarian Mapping Unit #UMH


[0]
https://disasterscharter.org/web/guest/activations/-/article/earthquake-in-mexico-activation-553-
[1] http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/3597
-- 
##
 |___|__\___
 | _ |   |_ |  }
 "(_)""  ""(_)"

Twitter: @fredy_rivera
Titán Caracol en Técnología y Conectividad
Coordinador Unidad de Mapeo Humanitario #UMH
Presidente Fundación OSM Colombia
Phone: 3044886255
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Re: [OSM-talk] DWG survey on organised editing

[James]

Thank you Frederik for the clearification, so a Stammtisch as you call it
would not be affected by the policy unless there was outside
influence(unexperienced mapper that says map this in osm, example:
political/voting districts(which is why the policy would be there to tell
them that this is not appropriate for osm))

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 7:57 AM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 20.09.2017 13:17, James wrote:
> > Also does organised mapping include groups that hold little mapathons?
> > Example a local mapping group from Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal or
> > Ottawa decide to say map sidewalks in their city. It's an organised
> > event. Would they be included as well?
> >
> > The terms used in this survey seem a little vague and can be left to
> > interpretation.
>
> It is likely that any policy we come up with later will also leave room
> for interpretation and this will be necessary to make it work.
>
> I think they key issues are choice and responsibility. If you have a
> group of experienced mappers getting together and doing something, then
> they are not "told by a third party what to map"; they do what they
> would otherwise do, just together. They act as individuals vis-a-vis the
> community, they feel responsible for their edits, and there's no need to
> put up rules. They're no different from a mapping party of old.
>
> If you have, on the other hand, a group of people who have never mapped
> and who "just follow orders" (whether written or spoken), and who when
> challenged about their edits would likely shrug and say "I just did what
> the lead sidewalk mapping guy said, you'll have to take it up with him",
> then that's clearly organised mapping.
>
> There's a grey area in between, especially since you might have both
> types of contributors mixed at an event, but also because you can choose
> different words to describe the same event.
>
> Certainly "organised" doesn't simply mean that someone gets a room an
> pizza. They would have to provide instruction and guidance too.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
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>



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Re: [Talk-cz] Import dat do QGisu

[jzvc]

Dne 6.9.2017 v 22:47 Jan Macura napsal(a):

Ahoj,

2017-09-06 15:37 GMT+02:00 Vladimír Semotán >:

Ale teď jsem narazil na tohle:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Simple_3D_buildings#Building_outlines

(Building Outlines)..to bude asi ono. Budu muset prostě detekovat,
které "building:part" jsou uvnitř té či oné "building" a podle toho
se zařídit.


jistější je postup: detekovat, která building:part= je uvnitř které
building=, ale na některých místech existuje i relace typu building,
která to právě všechno drží pohromadě, zvlášť u případů, kdy třeba část
budovy z nějakého důvodu není uvnitř půdorysu (použito třeba zde:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6721018).

H.


Cus, spravne by tam v pripade, ze se budova sklada z vice prvku, ta 
"obalova" relace mela byt vzdy. Jina vec je, zda i ve skutecnosti je, 
ale pokud neni, je to chyba.


A ad outline ... to je vpodstate primarne urceno pro 2D reneder = tohle 
vykresli jako budovu, a na zbytek prvku kasli.





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Re: [OSM-talk] DWG survey on organised editing

[James]

It was an example of "organised editing". If a "local group" invites
newbies/other people to edit a specific thing (sidewalks, buildings, roads
etc) does that policy cover them as well or are they counted more as
"normal mapping"? One could argue that: "We define other
organised mapping (or editing) as any editing that is also steered by a
third party, but where no money is paid.". A local group could tell the
group what and how to map as much as a outside company could do the same.
I'm asking where do you draw the line on who is an organised mapper vs
normal mapper(to which the new policy wouldn't apply)

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 7:46 AM, Christoph Hormann  wrote:

> On Wednesday 20 September 2017, James wrote:
> > Also does organised mapping include groups that hold little
> > mapathons? Example a local mapping group from Vancouver, Toronto,
> > Montreal or Ottawa decide to say map sidewalks in their city. It's an
> > organised event. Would they be included as well?
> >
> > The terms used in this survey seem a little vague and can be left to
> > interpretation.
>
> I think you are misunderstanding the idea of the survey here - this is
> not a vote on a regulation of organized editing, it is meant to gather
> opinions of OSM community members on the matter.  Classifying organized
> editing activities in a fine grained way would be beyond the scope of
> such a simple exploratory survey.
>
> You can be sure the DWG knows that there is a broad range of organized
> editing activities and that even within the definitions given for the
> survey there is room for interpretation.
>
> --
> Christoph Hormann
> http://www.imagico.de/
>
> ___
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>



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Re: [OSM-talk] DWG survey on organised editing

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 20.09.2017 13:17, James wrote:
> Also does organised mapping include groups that hold little mapathons?
> Example a local mapping group from Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal or
> Ottawa decide to say map sidewalks in their city. It's an organised
> event. Would they be included as well?
> 
> The terms used in this survey seem a little vague and can be left to
> interpretation.

It is likely that any policy we come up with later will also leave room
for interpretation and this will be necessary to make it work.

I think they key issues are choice and responsibility. If you have a
group of experienced mappers getting together and doing something, then
they are not "told by a third party what to map"; they do what they
would otherwise do, just together. They act as individuals vis-a-vis the
community, they feel responsible for their edits, and there's no need to
put up rules. They're no different from a mapping party of old.

If you have, on the other hand, a group of people who have never mapped
and who "just follow orders" (whether written or spoken), and who when
challenged about their edits would likely shrug and say "I just did what
the lead sidewalk mapping guy said, you'll have to take it up with him",
then that's clearly organised mapping.

There's a grey area in between, especially since you might have both
types of contributors mixed at an event, but also because you can choose
different words to describe the same event.

Certainly "organised" doesn't simply mean that someone gets a room an
pizza. They would have to provide instruction and guidance too.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[JB]

Le 20/09/2017 à 13:05, Oleksiy Muzalyev a écrit :

It would give a boost to the Wikidata project.

Am I really reading from an OSM mailing list here?
I can imagine the time when you will not be able to parse an osm extract 
offline, without reading data from external databases.

JB.

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Re: [Talk-it] Strada interrotta e routing

[Cascafico Giovanni]

Ho provato sulla barrier=gate [1] col risultato che sia Auto(Mapzen)
che Car(GrassHopper) mi fanno fare correttamente il giro, mentre
Auto(OSRM) ci passa baldanzosamente sopra.



[1] http://openstreetmap.org/node/4968394324

Il 20 settembre 2017 13:29, Fabrizio Carrai
 ha scritto:
> Mi serviva qualcosa on-line da consigliare a chi doveva passare dalla
> strada...Magari qualcuno può confermarlo, ma mi sembra che il servizio di
> routing usato da openstreetmap.org non tiene conto delle barriere. Ho
> provato a mettere come destinazione un parcheggio delimitato da sbarre (e
> quelle le vedo anche sulla mappa) e mi fa raggiungere la destinazione.
>
> FabC
>
> Il giorno 18 settembre 2017 14:06, Francesco Pelullo 
> ha scritto:
>>
>>
>>
>> Il giorno 18 settembre 2017 13:22, Fabrizio Carrai
>>  ha scritto:
>>>
>>>
>>> Ho provato quelli accessibili dalla mappa di OSM (www.openstreetmap.org)
>>> e con OpenRouteService.
>>
>>
>> OpenRouteService offre un servizio di routing su dati "in tempo reale"
>> proprio per eventi calamitosi.
>> Il sito è disaster.openrouteservice.org
>> Purtroppo in questo momento è attivo soltanto per alcune aree degli USA, i
>> Caraibi ed il Bangladesh.
>> Credo che si possa richiedere l'attivazione di un'altra area per la
>> Liguria, ma non ho idea di cosa/come fare.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>


 In generale, si aggiornano abbastanza di rado, tipo una volta al mese o
 giù di lì.
>>>
>>>
>>> Per delle prove mi serve qualcosa di più reattivo...
>>>


 Se ti riferisci al routing di OsmAnd, ed hai l'abbonamento alle live
 maps, devi abilitare il routing sui dati live (c'è un'opzione apposta).
>>>
>>>
>>> No, almeno inizialmente mi serviva qualcosa da usare da un PC.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Se non riesci a risolvere tramite disaster.openrouteservice.org, puoi
>> tentare la carta estrema... :-)
>>
>> Con Windows: installi Garmin Basemap, scarichi le mappe OSM di Luca
>> Delucchi da http://www.geodati.fmach.it/italia_osm.html (aggiornate ogni
>> 24h) e usi il routing offline
>>
>> Con Linux: installi QLandKarte al posto di Basemap, poi è tutto uguale.
>>
>> In estrema ratio, usi QGIS importando i dati live di OSM. Soluzione più
>> complessa, ma molto più versatile.
>>
>> Spero di essere stato d'aiuto.
>>
>> Ciao
>> /niubii/
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Fabrizio
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] DWG survey on organised editing

[Christoph Hormann]

On Wednesday 20 September 2017, James wrote:
> Also does organised mapping include groups that hold little
> mapathons? Example a local mapping group from Vancouver, Toronto,
> Montreal or Ottawa decide to say map sidewalks in their city. It's an
> organised event. Would they be included as well?
>
> The terms used in this survey seem a little vague and can be left to
> interpretation.

I think you are misunderstanding the idea of the survey here - this is 
not a vote on a regulation of organized editing, it is meant to gather 
opinions of OSM community members on the matter.  Classifying organized 
editing activities in a fine grained way would be beyond the scope of 
such a simple exploratory survey.

You can be sure the DWG knows that there is a broad range of organized 
editing activities and that even within the definitions given for the 
survey there is room for interpretation.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [Talk-it] Strada interrotta e routing

[Fabrizio Carrai]

Mi serviva qualcosa on-line da consigliare a chi doveva passare dalla
strada...Magari qualcuno può confermarlo, ma mi sembra che il servizio di
routing usato da openstreetmap.org non tiene conto delle barriere. Ho
provato a mettere come destinazione un parcheggio delimitato da sbarre (e
quelle le vedo anche sulla mappa) e mi fa raggiungere la destinazione.

FabC

Il giorno 18 settembre 2017 14:06, Francesco Pelullo 
ha scritto:

>
>
> Il giorno 18 settembre 2017 13:22, Fabrizio Carrai <
> fabrizio.car...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>
>>
>> Ho provato quelli accessibili dalla mappa di OSM (www.openstreetmap.org)
>> e con OpenRouteService.
>>
>
> OpenRouteService offre un servizio di routing su dati "in tempo reale"
> proprio per eventi calamitosi.
> Il sito è disaster.openrouteservice.org
> Purtroppo in questo momento è attivo soltanto per alcune aree degli USA, i
> Caraibi ed il Bangladesh.
> Credo che si possa richiedere l'attivazione di un'altra area per la
> Liguria, ma non ho idea di cosa/come fare.
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> In generale, si aggiornano abbastanza di rado, tipo una volta al mese o
>>> giù di lì.
>>>
>>
>> Per delle prove mi serve qualcosa di più reattivo...
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Se ti riferisci al routing di OsmAnd, ed hai l'abbonamento alle live
>>> maps, devi abilitare il routing sui dati live (c'è un'opzione apposta).
>>>
>>
>> No, almeno inizialmente mi serviva qualcosa da usare da un PC.
>>
>>
>
> Se non riesci a risolvere tramite disaster.openrouteservice.org, puoi
> tentare la carta estrema... :-)
>
> Con Windows: installi Garmin Basemap, scarichi le mappe OSM di Luca
> Delucchi da http://www.geodati.fmach.it/italia_osm.html (aggiornate ogni
> 24h) e usi il routing offline
>
> Con Linux: installi QLandKarte al posto di Basemap, poi è tutto uguale.
>
> In estrema ratio, usi QGIS importando i dati live di OSM. Soluzione più
> complessa, ma molto più versatile.
>
> Spero di essere stato d'aiuto.
>
> Ciao
> /niubii/
>
>
> ___
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> Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
>
>


-- 
*Fabrizio*
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Re: [OSM-talk] DWG survey on organised editing

[James]

Also does organised mapping include groups that hold little mapathons?
Example a local mapping group from Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal or Ottawa
decide to say map sidewalks in their city. It's an organised event. Would
they be included as well?

The terms used in this survey seem a little vague and can be left to
interpretation.

On Sep 20, 2017 7:09 AM, "john whelan"  wrote:

> In the case of organised mapping such as the Statistics Canada organised
> efforts whom would you like to respond?
>
> Remembering that some of the terms used in the survey such as change set
> are such that a senior manager wouldn't have the faintest idea of what the
> term means and some of the players may have moved on to other projects?
>
> Perhaps one question might be did you consult with local mappers before
> the project?
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On 20 September 2017 at 00:51, Paul Norman  wrote:
>
>> The Data Working Group is conducting a survey as part of its work on a
>> policy covering paid mapping.
>>
>> When OpenStreetMap started, it was largely a project of hobbyists
>> contributing to OSM in their spare time. They chose freely what to map
>> and which tools to use, and they took individual responsibility for
>> their contributions.
>>
>> The continuing growth and popularity of OSM have also brought more and
>> more organised mapping efforts, mostly in the form of companies setting
>> up paid data teams to improve OSM data in specific regions or for
>> specific use cases, but also unpaid groups like school classes that are
>> directed to work on OSM.
>>
>> These organised mapping efforts are an integral part of today's OSM
>> contribution landscape and, when done well, help make OSM better and
>> more widely known.
>>
>> In order to ensure good communication, and a level playing field,
>> between individual community members and organised editing groups, the
>> OSMF Data Working Group has been tasked with developing guidelines for
>> organised groups. These guidelines will above all set out some
>> transparency requirements for organised groups - things that are already
>> voluntarily followed by most groups today, like informing the mapping
>> community about which accounts edit for the team.
>>
>> We have prepared the following survey with a few questions about such a
>> policy to give us a better understanding of what the mapping community
>> expects from such a policy. The survey is aimed at everyone editing (or
>> planning to edit) in OSM, whether as individual mappers or as part of a
>> team, and your answers will help us in fleshing out a draft policy.
>>
>> Within the scope of the survey, and the policy to be written, we define
>> paid mapping (or paid editing) as any editing in OSM performed by
>> someone who is told by a third party what to map (and potentially also
>> how to map it) and who receives money in exchange. We define other
>> organised mapping (or editing) as any editing that is also steered by a
>> third party, but where no money is paid.
>>
>> The survey is available at https://osm-dwg.limequery.org/741554
>>
>> --
>> Paul Norman
>> For the OSM Data Working Group
>>
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] DWG survey on organised editing

[john whelan]

In the case of organised mapping such as the Statistics Canada organised
efforts whom would you like to respond?

Remembering that some of the terms used in the survey such as change set
are such that a senior manager wouldn't have the faintest idea of what the
term means and some of the players may have moved on to other projects?

Perhaps one question might be did you consult with local mappers before the
project?

Cheerio John

On 20 September 2017 at 00:51, Paul Norman  wrote:

> The Data Working Group is conducting a survey as part of its work on a
> policy covering paid mapping.
>
> When OpenStreetMap started, it was largely a project of hobbyists
> contributing to OSM in their spare time. They chose freely what to map
> and which tools to use, and they took individual responsibility for
> their contributions.
>
> The continuing growth and popularity of OSM have also brought more and
> more organised mapping efforts, mostly in the form of companies setting
> up paid data teams to improve OSM data in specific regions or for
> specific use cases, but also unpaid groups like school classes that are
> directed to work on OSM.
>
> These organised mapping efforts are an integral part of today's OSM
> contribution landscape and, when done well, help make OSM better and
> more widely known.
>
> In order to ensure good communication, and a level playing field,
> between individual community members and organised editing groups, the
> OSMF Data Working Group has been tasked with developing guidelines for
> organised groups. These guidelines will above all set out some
> transparency requirements for organised groups - things that are already
> voluntarily followed by most groups today, like informing the mapping
> community about which accounts edit for the team.
>
> We have prepared the following survey with a few questions about such a
> policy to give us a better understanding of what the mapping community
> expects from such a policy. The survey is aimed at everyone editing (or
> planning to edit) in OSM, whether as individual mappers or as part of a
> team, and your answers will help us in fleshing out a draft policy.
>
> Within the scope of the survey, and the policy to be written, we define
> paid mapping (or paid editing) as any editing in OSM performed by
> someone who is told by a third party what to map (and potentially also
> how to map it) and who receives money in exchange. We define other
> organised mapping (or editing) as any editing that is also steered by a
> third party, but where no money is paid.
>
> The survey is available at https://osm-dwg.limequery.org/741554
>
> --
> Paul Norman
> For the OSM Data Working Group
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

At first it seemed to me a bit radical, but the more I think about it 
the more I like the idea. It would give a boost to the Wikidata project. 
It would make people to pay more attention to the Wikidata items.


Wikidata items require a lot of work too, - translations of a title, of 
a description, adding a category, an image, a location, etc.
In the end it would benefit the Wikipedias too, as having comprehensive 
Wikidata items, the pages in different languages could be created 
automatically or semi-automatically.


The situation is similar to the USB connector issue, - shall we change 
radically to the new USB-C horizontally symmetrical reversible 
connector, or continue to waste billions of hours of work time 
connecting the old USB with three orientation attempts?


brgds
Oleksiy

On 9/20/2017 1:56 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote:

[...]
If the Wikidata ID can be fetched automatically based on the Wikipedia
tag, can we delete the Wikipedia tags from everything that has Wikidata
afterwards because it is redundant?
[...]
Bye
Frederik




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[Talk-it] 29 sett - Acqui Terme - 1° mapping party

[Bertalan Ivan]

Annunciaziò! Annunciaziò!

Abbiamo il via libera per invitare gli interessati a partecipare al 1
mappino party ad Aqui Terme. Non fate i timidi, vi aspettiamo numerosi.

L’idea è quella di coinvolgere alcune persone legate all’area produttiva
degli anni d’oro e di mappare al meglio possibile l'attuale zona
circostante.
Grazie alla disponibilità del Comune di Acqui Terme abbiamo ottenuto anche
la planimetria dell’area produttiva… e potremo fare altro.

Ciao, Berti
347.8063221


==


*Archeologia del fare: conoscere per riusare*

*1° mapping party Acqui Terme*

*L'incontro informativo, nato per iniziativa del gruppo piemontese di Stati
Generali dell’Innovazione e di OpenGeoData School di Monastero Bormida,
sarà realizzato con la collaborazione del Comune di Acqui.*

Ad Acqui Terme si terrà il primo Mapping Party per esplorare l'ex area
produttiva "Lama Italia - Coltelleria Kaimano". Venerdì 29 settembre 2017,
dalle 14,30 alle 19,30,  presso la Biblioteca civica “La fabbrica dei
libri”, in piazza Maggiorino Ferraris 5,  si incontreranno le persone
interessate a raccogliere informazioni e mappare su OpenStreetMap i punti
di interesse circostanti. Il sopralluogo dell’area produttiva sarà
arricchito con l'aiuto delle testimonianze dei cittadini acquesi, di
tecnici comunali e di esperti mappatori. Ai partecipanti non è richiesta
alcuna precedente esperienza di mappatura. Tutti potranno utilizzare i
propri smartphone e i computer portatili per arricchire la mappa. I posti
sono limitati e per facilitare l’organizzazione delle postazioni è
richiesta la conferma al seguente indirizzo web:
http://bit.ly/AcquiTmappingParty
L’evento è aperto a tutti, acquesi doc e visitatori, professionisti,
studenti, semplici curiosi, esploratori, “smanettoni tecnologici” e
soprattutto a chi è alle prime armi e ha voglia di imparare e mettersi alla
prova divertendosi.
Per creare tutti insieme una mappa libera della città di Acqui, partendo da
uno degli edifici simbolo del suo passato operoso e produttivo, l’ex
Coltelleria Kaimano, sarà utilizzata la mappa libera e accessibile
“OpenStreetMap”, gli smartphones e i pc personali, ma soprattutto curiosità
e voglia di scoprire la storia di una zona di Acqui Terme, dove magari si
passa tutti i giorni.
Questo primo incontro di mappatura è finalizzato alla divulgazione delle
competenze nell’uso delle nuove tecnologie, utili anche a far rivivere le
aree produttive e a regalare alla città di Acqui Terme un “cartello
parlante” che illustrerà com’era l’area di “Lama Italia - Coltelleria
Kaimano”, cosa ha rappresentato per la città e cosa potrebbe di nuovo
essere.
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[talk-ph] Fwd: [Osmf-talk] DWG survey on organized editing

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

-- Forwarded message --
From: Paul Norman 
Date: Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 12:50 PM
Subject: [Osmf-talk] DWG survey on organized editing
To: osmf-t...@openstreetmap.org


The Data Working Group is conducting a survey as part of its work on a
policy covering paid mapping.

When OpenStreetMap started, it was largely a project of hobbyists
contributing to OSM in their spare time. They chose freely what to map
and which tools to use, and they took individual responsibility for
their contributions.

The continuing growth and popularity of OSM have also brought more and
more organised mapping efforts, mostly in the form of companies setting
up paid data teams to improve OSM data in specific regions or for
specific use cases, but also unpaid groups like school classes that are
directed to work on OSM.

These organised mapping efforts are an integral part of today's OSM
contribution landscape and, when done well, help make OSM better and
more widely known.

In order to ensure good communication, and a level playing field,
between individual community members and organised editing groups, the
OSMF Data Working Group has been tasked with developing guidelines for
organised groups. These guidelines will above all set out some
transparency requirements for organised groups - things that are already
voluntarily followed by most groups today, like informing the mapping
community about which accounts edit for the team.

We have prepared the following survey with a few questions about such a
policy to give us a better understanding of what the mapping community
expects from such a policy. The survey is aimed at everyone editing (or
planning to edit) in OSM, whether as individual mappers or as part of a
team, and your answers will help us in fleshing out a draft policy.

Within the scope of the survey, and the policy to be written, we define
paid mapping (or paid editing) as any editing in OSM performed by
someone who is told by a third party what to map (and potentially also
how to map it) and who receives money in exchange. We define other
organised mapping (or editing) as any editing that is also steered by a
third party, but where no money is paid.

The survey is available at https://osm-dwg.limequery.org/741554

-- 
Paul Norman
For the OSM Data Working Group

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Re: [OSM-talk] DWG survey on organised editing

[Christoph Hormann]

On Wednesday 20 September 2017, Paul Norman wrote:
>
> The survey is available at https://osm-dwg.limequery.org/741554

Looks good.

To get a broad spectrum of opinions i would encourage everyone to 
participate - even those who usually just map on their own without much 
interaction with the community outside mapping itself.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [Talk-cz] rozcestniky

[Michal Grézl]

> Dne 12. září 2017 14:39 Michal Grézl  
> napsal(a):
> uz jich mame 30gb a zaplacli sme veskery prideleny prostor.
>
> Takze ted musim sehnat prostor novy a zaroven preorganizovat ten
> stavajici. To znamena ze vsechny fotky co zacinaji na 201[1234567] sou
> presouvany jinam. Posleze bude upravena db tak, aby to zas fungovalo,
> do te doby nepujdou zobrazit. Chtel sem uz dnes, ale to kopirovani je
> priserne pomale.
>
> navrhy na nejaky levny vps krome wedosu s hromadou disku? Staci jen
> vzdaleny uloziste, nfs, iscsi?
>

tak nakonec sem koupil vps z contabo.com, slibuji 500gb disk a 6gb
pameti, to by melo zas na chvili stacit.
Doufam ze to budou mit funkcni co nejdriv at to muzu zacit presouvat.


-- 
Michal Grézl
http://openstreetmap.cz

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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Lester Caine]

On 20/09/17 08:22, Sarah Hoffmann wrote:
>> If the Wikidata ID can be fetched automatically based on the Wikipedia
>> tag, can we delete the Wikipedia tags from everything that has Wikidata
>> afterwards because it is redundant?

> As a reminder: the OSM search engine relies havily on wikipedia tags
> to distinguish the important results from the unimportant ones.
> 
> If you are interested in keeping a half-way functional search on the
> main site, it might be a good idea to find somebody to implement
> support for Wikidata IDs in Nominatim before you enagage in a mass deletion
> of Wikipedia tags.

While wikidata does seem to have come a long way and sort out a lot of
the 'tagging' problems that it had early on, there would still seem to
be a long way to go to use it as a general cross reference replacing
existing data IN the OSM database? Perhaps when the wikipedia pages
cross reference the wikidata entry? But currently one probably needs
both references even if Nominatim was able to handle either.

I followed the wikidata example of Douglas Adams and while it's a little
thing, the same problem we have with OSM cropped up. Douglas went to St
John's College ... I know he went to Cambridge, but OSM search gives
Oxford first! Where ambiguous data exists it would be nice that a better
title was used ... while links take you to the right place, it's an
unnecessary step if one is just scanning the raw data? It took a couple
of minutes to find the right location to see what data was in OSM for
the collage and some material that has not yet made it into wikidata
came up.

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

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[OSM-talk-be] Fwd: [OSM-talk] DWG survey on organised editing

[joost schouppe]

-- Forwarded message --
From: Paul Norman 
Date: 2017-09-20 6:51 GMT+02:00
Subject: [OSM-talk] DWG survey on organised editing
To: Talk Openstreetmap 


The Data Working Group is conducting a survey as part of its work on a
policy covering paid mapping.

When OpenStreetMap started, it was largely a project of hobbyists
contributing to OSM in their spare time. They chose freely what to map
and which tools to use, and they took individual responsibility for
their contributions.

The continuing growth and popularity of OSM have also brought more and
more organised mapping efforts, mostly in the form of companies setting
up paid data teams to improve OSM data in specific regions or for
specific use cases, but also unpaid groups like school classes that are
directed to work on OSM.

These organised mapping efforts are an integral part of today's OSM
contribution landscape and, when done well, help make OSM better and
more widely known.

In order to ensure good communication, and a level playing field,
between individual community members and organised editing groups, the
OSMF Data Working Group has been tasked with developing guidelines for
organised groups. These guidelines will above all set out some
transparency requirements for organised groups - things that are already
voluntarily followed by most groups today, like informing the mapping
community about which accounts edit for the team.

We have prepared the following survey with a few questions about such a
policy to give us a better understanding of what the mapping community
expects from such a policy. The survey is aimed at everyone editing (or
planning to edit) in OSM, whether as individual mappers or as part of a
team, and your answers will help us in fleshing out a draft policy.

Within the scope of the survey, and the policy to be written, we define
paid mapping (or paid editing) as any editing in OSM performed by
someone who is told by a third party what to map (and potentially also
how to map it) and who receives money in exchange. We define other
organised mapping (or editing) as any editing that is also steered by a
third party, but where no money is paid.

The survey is available at https://osm-dwg.limequery.org/741554

-- 
Paul Norman
For the OSM Data Working Group


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-- 
Joost Schouppe
OpenStreetMap  |
Twitter  | LinkedIn
 | Meetup

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Rennes : cartographie du Musée de Bretagne

[PanierAvide]

Merci pour ce retour. Effectivement le système de QR Code était proposée 
dans la version précédente d'OpenLevelUp, et pourrait refaire son 
apparition si ça a du sens pour le musée. De la même manière, 
l'affichage d'un point particulier pourrait être intéressante (ça 
demande un peu plus de développement par contre).


La céramique c'était si je me rappelle bien le contenu d'une vitrine 
plus grande, à vérifier. Et si c'est bien ça, pas de 
indoor=glass_cabinet puisqu'il s'agit du contenu, d'où le historic=artifact.


Pour le site du musée c'est encore à étudier, à minima ce qui serait 
sympa c'est de lier le site des collections avec OSM/OLU, pour voir 
précisément où un objet est situé dans le musée.


Cordialement,

Adrien.


Le 19/09/2017 à 18:44, osm.sanspourr...@spamgourmet.com a écrit :


Belle initiative.

Peut-être qu'une url courte (propre à un olu.net ou depuis is.gd) 
permettrai de créer un QR code que le musée pourrait imprimer et 
coller à côté des artéfacts (par exemple https://is.gd/f80z97 pour 
https://openlevelup.net/?l=1#20/48.10505/-1.67512 soit 
blob:null/8a1aea6e-7049-47f1-b9d2-a9e5538ce277blob:null/8a1aea6e-7049-47f1-b9d2-a9e5538ce277blob:null/8a1aea6e-7049-47f1-b9d2-a9e5538ce277).


Idéalement l'url d'OpenLevelUp permettrait de sélectionner l'objet en 
question (pas seulement de voir l'endroit) à la OSM 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5111042629.


Au fait "La céramique"est-ce un nom ou une description ? Car c'est le 
nom de la vitrine qui décrit son contenu.


Ne manque-t-il pas indoor 
=glass_cabinet sur cet 
objet ?


Bien-sûr une page du musée qui affiche la carte OLU, ça va aussi.

Jean-Yvon

Le 19/09/2017 à 10:21, gwen...@niadomo.net a écrit :

bonjour

À l'occasion des Journées européenne du patrimoine, le groupe des
contributeurs d'Ille et Vilaine a entamé la cartographie intérieure du
Musée de Bretagne à Rennes.

Cette contribution est innovante puisque peu de musées sont encore
cartographiés précisément en intérieur dans OSM.

Pour tout savoir sur cette expérience originale, je vous invite à lire
l'article rédigé par Adrien Pavie sur le site d'OSM France :
https://openstreetmap.fr/musee-bretagne-indoor

Gwen

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--
PanierAvide
Géomaticien & développeur

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] License DB liée

[Christian Quest]

Le 19 septembre 2017 à 22:36, eMerzh  a écrit :

> Hello à tous,
>
> j'ai reçu une quetsion et ne maitrisant pas trop le sujet je ne sais pas
> trop où l'envoyerdonc voilà je tente ici (désolé si c'est raté)
>
> je voudrais faire une collection (genre) de tweet qui contiennent donc
> lat, long
> là dessus, moi j'écris un logiciel qui viens faire du reverse geo-coding
> pr avoir les pays, villes ... basé sur une DB OSM.
> Puis, j'utilise cette db pour faire une superbe webapp / website.
>
> quels sont mes obligations:
> - créditer OSM ( je suppose que oui)
>

Oui !


> - rendre cette db elle même sous ODBL pour les users de mon site/app
>

Pas nécessaire (mais tu peux), les community guidelines concernant le
geocoding ont clarifié la situation des données géocodées ou reverse
géocodées et le partage à l'identique n'est pas nécessaire pour une
utilisation de ce type car tu ne recrée pas une base de données
géographiques génériques (je fais simple).



> - la mm chose mais pr tt le monde
>

Pareil


> - rien de tout ça, ou autre ?
>
>
Tu peux lire la version anglaise des guidelines:
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Community_Guidelines/Geocoding_-_Guideline

et une traduction en français que j'ai mis sur framapad (pour l'améliorer
ensemble):
https://annuel2.framapad.org/p/guidelines-geocodage-osm

-- 
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
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Re: [Talk-us] Uploading sidewalks in San Jose, California, US

[Minh Nguyen]

On 19/09/2017 23:44, OSM Volunteer stevea wrote:

Vivek Bansal <3viv...@gmail.com> writes:

We are using the San Jose data which has an ODbL compliant license (and any 
government data in California has the same).


I'm following the San José discussion and don't wish to get too technically legal:  I am not an attorney, though I have paid attention to the legal 
situation with state (of California) produced geo data and how our state "Open Data/Open Records" laws plus two fairly recent California 
Supreme Court decisions make state-published data roughly if not essentially equivalent to public domain.  These legal circumstances taken together 
with OSM's ODBL result in "be free to use the data, OSM, they are ODbL compliant."  It isn't exactly correct to use the word 
"license" in how California publishes geo data.  It IS correct that such data are "ODBL compliant."  It isn't a license that 
grants this, it is case law or stare decisis (Latin for "let the decision stand") which confirm such data published by the state comply 
with both statutory law (California Public Records Act, CPRA) and California's state constitution.  The bottom line is "the data are ODbL 
compliant" though it isn't via "license."


Yes, we're aware of County of Santa Clara v. California First Amendment 
Coalition as it relates to the CPRA. The wiki page describing the import 
[1] currently states the source data's _copyright status_ as being in 
the public domain, steering clear of the term "license". Hopefully 
that'll be clear enough for the purposes of this import project.



From an OSM perspective, I suppose it can be said we are fortunate to have as 
much state (of California) published geo data available to us as we do; I 
certainly am grateful for these circumstances!


Well said -- as someone who also maps in states with more restrictive 
copyright laws, it's been refreshing to be able to say "public domain", 
end of story.


[1] 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Santa_Clara_County,_California/San_Jose_Sidewalk_Import


--
m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Champs phone : futur projet du mois ?

[JB]

Oui, mais la contribution c'est des humains qui la font. Et 
personnellement, je n'ai jamais indiqué mon numéro comme étant zéro 
soixante dix-sept million deux cent quarante huit mille et des 
brouettes. Ni lu de cette manière-là. OSM, c'est un projet humain, pas 
un projet de machines pour machines.

JB.


Le 20/09/2017 à 09:06, Dominique Rousseau a écrit :

Ca me semble etrange de se poser la question de mettre des espaces ou
non dans les numeros de telephones stockes dans la base.
La facon de les afficher, c'est - encore une fois - une question de
rendu (des espaces, des tirets, whatever).
Et vu qu'il y a un format indiqué dans le wiki OSM, il suffit de s'y
conformer, si on veut "normaliser" les numéros deja presents.



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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Sarah Hoffmann]

Hi Frederik,

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 01:56:31AM +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On 09/19/2017 10:03 PM, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
> > I would like to auto-add all the
> > corresponding wikidata based on wikipedia, for all remaining objects,
> > using  JOSM's "Fetch Wikidata IDs".
> 
> If the Wikidata ID can be fetched automatically based on the Wikipedia
> tag, can we delete the Wikipedia tags from everything that has Wikidata
> afterwards because it is redundant?

As a reminder: the OSM search engine relies havily on wikipedia tags
to distinguish the important results from the unimportant ones.

If you are interested in keeping a half-way functional search on the
main site, it might be a good idea to find somebody to implement
support for Wikidata IDs in Nominatim before you enagage in a mass deletion
of Wikipedia tags.

Sarah

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Champs phone : futur projet du mois ?

[Dominique Rousseau]

Le Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 09:36:26PM +0200, Romain MEHUT [romain.me...@gmail.com] 
a écrit:
> Le 18 septembre 2017 à 22:35,  a écrit :
> 
> > Ce n'est pas incompatible E.123 dit qu'un numéro de téléphone peut
> > comporter des espaces pour la lisibilité.
> >
> > Et en France le regroupement se fait usuellement par paquets de 2 chiffres
> > hormis le premier si on passe au format international.
> >
> 
> Usuel pour qui ?
> Cela me donne l'impression, pourquoi faire simple quand on peut faire
> compliqué...

Ca me semble etrange de se poser la question de mettre des espaces ou
non dans les numeros de telephones stockes dans la base.
La facon de les afficher, c'est - encore une fois - une question de
rendu (des espaces, des tirets, whatever).
Et vu qu'il y a un format indiqué dans le wiki OSM, il suffit de s'y
conformer, si on veut "normaliser" les numéros deja presents.


-- 
Dominique Rousseau
d...@lee-loo.net - 06 82 43 12 27

A l'instant où l'esclave décide qu'il ne sera plus esclave,
ses chaînes tombent.  -- Mahatma Gandhi

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Re: [Talk-us] Uploading sidewalks in San Jose, California, US

[OSM Volunteer stevea]

Vivek Bansal <3viv...@gmail.com> writes:
> We are using the San Jose data which has an ODbL compliant license (and any 
> government data in California has the same).

I'm following the San José discussion and don't wish to get too technically 
legal:  I am not an attorney, though I have paid attention to the legal 
situation with state (of California) produced geo data and how our state "Open 
Data/Open Records" laws plus two fairly recent California Supreme Court 
decisions make state-published data roughly if not essentially equivalent to 
public domain.  These legal circumstances taken together with OSM's ODBL result 
in "be free to use the data, OSM, they are ODbL compliant."  It isn't exactly 
correct to use the word "license" in how California publishes geo data.  It IS 
correct that such data are "ODBL compliant."  It isn't a license that grants 
this, it is case law or stare decisis (Latin for "let the decision stand") 
which confirm such data published by the state comply with both statutory law 
(California Public Records Act, CPRA) and California's state constitution.  The 
bottom line is "the data are ODbL compliant" though it isn't via "license."

Let's not get sloppy with how we understand "ODbL" or use the word "license" 
when to do so isn't quite correct.  Yet let's not get too legally onerous, or 
nit-picky, either.  Juust right, enough said.  Vivek, please understand I'm 
not "barking hard" at you:  you are correct to use the data, I simply notice a 
little smudge using the word "license" here.  I feel a need to type this:  
maybe one more person gets a sharper focus on how state Open Data laws in the 
US can and do work for OSM (yay!) and we converse about that with rather 
precise verbiage.

The Code for San José orientation might briefly explain to participants how 
this all works:  California (public agency produced) geo data rather neatly 
comply with ODbL in a nice straight path springing from CPRA and stare decisis, 
which neatly mesh with ODbL — it's pretty cool if you enjoy the intricacies of 
legal stuff like copyright and license compliance.  From an OSM perspective, I 
suppose it can be said we are fortunate to have as much state (of California) 
published geo data available to us as we do; I certainly am grateful for these 
circumstances!

Thanks for reading,
SteveA
California
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