Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
If the USPS was privatized no letters would arrive in non-profit routes... as a matter of fact they would be closed. Like happens to patients under private health insurance... Marcio -Original Message- From: Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Sent: Sep 6, 2009 4:04 AM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... True, the post office certainly has on many occasions. Does anyone really stop and think what the post office does on a daily basis? I have yet to find a privet company that has worked as efficiently and consistently. And, being governmentally run, the post office's goal isn't to make a profit. No government program is run to make a profit. People bitch when the programs loose money, and they'd bitch about prices and taxes if the programs were making money. It's a no win situation. I have yet, in my 47 years, realized something getting lossed by the USPS. On occasion it's taken a day or more to get here or there. But at the cost, I really can't complain. And with the millions of letters and packages they deal with each day, Fed-Ex and UPS seem to be doing just fine. In fact new people are coming on board. What's the new one? Some Yellow truck, 3 letters, can't remember the name. Socialized mail can't be that bad for business. Maybe that was President Obama's hidden agenda in asking kids to write a letter. It was to themselves, but maybe he'd had hopes they'd actually mail them and boost the profits of the USPS? Or maybe he'd had the market flooded and hoped they'd all lick some tainted stamps? The conspiracy theories flourish. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
I am also losing faith in Obama... he is not standing up for what he believes. He is afraid of big business. I understand, he is not independently wealthy like JFK. Marcio -Original Message- From: Jeff Wright jswri...@gmail.com Sent: Sep 6, 2009 11:17 AM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... I appreciate your faith. I guess the most distressing part of the whole affair is seeing the wing nuts so ready to sell out their country for a sack of gold. They support the ultra-rich insurance barons, the M$s, the Comcasts, etc. and give the shiv to their fellow citizens. I'm really disappointed in Obama folding so early in the hand. There's so much more he could be doing. No family should ever go broke putting food on their table. No one should have to go into bankruptcy to put a roof over their heads. When is Obama going to force the food barons and the housing dons to provide cheap and affordable food and shelter? I pay more for these every year than I do health care! Single payer groceries and 3BR/2BA now! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
The beauty of the Single Payer is that we all will share the risks. Isn´t this one of the reasons that we live in society? That's what insurance is: risk pooling. It's also something I engage by choice, not coercion. I don't choose to be live in a society to be compelled, by the threat of force, to accept a system that offers no choice. That's not society, but a similar word that also begins with 's'. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
I pay less the $200/mo for food. Never really thought about food costs being high. Of course no one is this household is obese. And we eat steak twice a week. Chicken, pork and fish make up the other days. I agree that housing costs are through the roof. No pun intended. But I blame the banks mostly for this. Some have thought it a good idea making the insurance similar to a public utility. The cost of electricity has always been one of my pet peeves, especially living here in Washington STATE. It's all hydro. We should have the cheapest electricity costs in the nation. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 6, 2009, at 7:17 AM, Jeff Wright wrote: I appreciate your faith. I guess the most distressing part of the whole affair is seeing the wing nuts so ready to sell out their country for a sack of gold. They support the ultra-rich insurance barons, the M$s, the Comcasts, etc. and give the shiv to their fellow citizens. I'm really disappointed in Obama folding so early in the hand. There's so much more he could be doing. No family should ever go broke putting food on their table. No one should have to go into bankruptcy to put a roof over their heads. When is Obama going to force the food barons and the housing dons to provide cheap and affordable food and shelter? I pay more for these every year than I do health care! Single payer groceries and 3BR/2BA now! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
I see no conflicts having socialized programs in a capitalist country. As a matter of fact I believe the world is moving in the direction. Marcio -Original Message- From: Rev. Stewart Marshall popoz...@earthlink.net Sent: Sep 6, 2009 3:52 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... Everyone shots themselves in the foot sometimes. Sometimes better than others. The government is not perfect but neither are we. Capitalism is not perfect either. There are some things better handle under the capitalist strategy and other things not. Stewart At 10:15 AM 9/6/2009, you wrote: This is standard wing-nut strategy to make government look bad. Of course. The guvmint never does anything to look bad. It's all a vast, right-wing conspiracy to undermine their natural efficiency. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
I was born and lived in Idaho for many years. I'm a strong supporter of gun rights. But these idiots bring guns to a presidential speeches need to be locked up just for being stupid. And to protect the rest of us from their stupidity. I wonder if these people believe their gun rights apply when they walk into their local schools? Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 6, 2009, at 8:58 AM, mike wrote: Yeah we got SEIU members shouting down and pushing people around so they can't practice their constitutional free speech, so why should they be aloud to carry any guns and practice that right either? Go Go Government! On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 5:50 AM, phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 2:30 AM, mikexha...@gmail.com wrote: The finger biter should be thankful that Mr. Rice was not one of the numerous anti-reform types who carry firearms to these events. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
-Original Message- From: Jeff Wright jswri...@gmail.com Sent: Sep 6, 2009 4:21 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... Everyone shots themselves in the foot sometimes. Sometimes better than others. The government is not perfect but neither are we. Capitalism is not perfect either. There are some things better handle under the capitalist strategy and other things not. I find it odd that people look to a system that has only made things much less affordable over the years, not the system that has made most things much more affordable, as the preferred solution to accessible health care. Under a free market (not capitalist) option you have choices. Under the guvmint option, you have none. That is the critical difference. I never claimed it to be perfect. Just much, much better. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Here you go into government x free market. This is not the way I see the world. They need each other. Free market? Yes for somethings... socialized programs... for others. They can function harmonically. Don´t beliebe that the Free Market is going to solve health care for all... Marcio * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Imagine if you had food insurance, you could eat steak every day! On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 1:27 PM, Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net wrote: I pay less the $200/mo for food. Never really thought about food costs being high. Of course no one is this household is obese. And we eat steak twice a week. Chicken, pork and fish make up the other days. I agree that housing costs are through the roof. No pun intended. But I blame the banks mostly for this. Some have thought it a good idea making the insurance similar to a public utility. The cost of electricity has always been one of my pet peeves, especially living here in Washington STATE. It's all hydro. We should have the cheapest electricity costs in the nation. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 6, 2009, at 7:17 AM, Jeff Wright wrote: I appreciate your faith. I guess the most distressing part of the whole affair is seeing the wing nuts so ready to sell out their country for a sack of gold. They support the ultra-rich insurance barons, the M$s, the Comcasts, etc. and give the shiv to their fellow citizens. I'm really disappointed in Obama folding so early in the hand. There's so much more he could be doing. No family should ever go broke putting food on their table. No one should have to go into bankruptcy to put a roof over their heads. When is Obama going to force the food barons and the housing dons to provide cheap and affordable food and shelter? I pay more for these every year than I do health care! Single payer groceries and 3BR/2BA now! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
The UK and Canada are moving away from socialized medicine, not towards it. On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Marcio m...@ix.netcom.com wrote: I see no conflicts having socialized programs in a capitalist country. As a matter of fact I believe the world is moving in the direction. Marcio -Original Message- From: Rev. Stewart Marshall popoz...@earthlink.net Sent: Sep 6, 2009 3:52 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... Everyone shots themselves in the foot sometimes. Sometimes better than others. The government is not perfect but neither are we. Capitalism is not perfect either. There are some things better handle under the capitalist strategy and other things not. Stewart At 10:15 AM 9/6/2009, you wrote: This is standard wing-nut strategy to make government look bad. Of course. The guvmint never does anything to look bad. It's all a vast, right-wing conspiracy to undermine their natural efficiency. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
This is such a stupid comment I've heard far to often. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 6, 2009, at 11:04 AM, mike wrote: Brilliant! Socialism is great till you run out of everyone elses money. On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 10:41 AM, TPiwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Sep 6, 2009, at 11:45 AM Sep 6, mike wrote: If gov't programs aren't supposed to make money, can we at least ask they don't LOSE so much? Simple. Just raise taxes. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
I believe those at the town hall meetings could do a lot to quiet these agitators. If everyone there were to simply turn and stare at the person shouting I'd bet they'd quit rather quickly. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 6, 2009, at 11:03 AM, Chris Dunford wrote: Very true. Both sides have their agitators. I do think it's insane that some representatives have refused to give any time to their constituents when that is the very reason they have a month off. There is some merit to that point of view, but, at the same time, it seems like a town hall meeting at which the shouters won't let the representatives respond is pretty much a waste of everyone's time. Again, the shouters must share some of the blame if Congressmen are hiding in their offices. None of them would be doing so if the attendees would state their questions/concerns coherently and listen to the responses. The representatives shouldn't be hiding, and the shouters shouldn't be shouting. Nothing is accomplished. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
You did not understand me. I am not going to insist. With all respect... Marcio -Original Message- From: mike xha...@gmail.com Sent: Sep 6, 2009 5:33 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... You don't seem to have a full grasp on capitalism. If your letters didn't arrive you'd switch carriers and get them to arrive. It's called Fedex and UPS and DHL etc. Would one pizza shop across the nation be good? Only one choice? Somehow I think not, why make good pizza if you know your customers only choice is to not eat it? And now imagine if the govt forced everyone to buy one pizza a week to support their govt pizza shops..now how good would the pizza be? I'll stick with being able to pick from 20 different shops around me...different tastes, different prices. Competition. On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 1:16 PM, Marcio m...@ix.netcom.com wrote: If the USPS was privatized no letters would arrive in non-profit routes... as a matter of fact they would be closed. Like happens to patients under private health insurance... Marcio -Original Message- From: Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Sent: Sep 6, 2009 4:04 AM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... True, the post office certainly has on many occasions. Does anyone really stop and think what the post office does on a daily basis? I have yet to find a privet company that has worked as efficiently and consistently. And, being governmentally run, the post office's goal isn't to make a profit. No government program is run to make a profit. People bitch when the programs loose money, and they'd bitch about prices and taxes if the programs were making money. It's a no win situation. I have yet, in my 47 years, realized something getting lossed by the USPS. On occasion it's taken a day or more to get here or there. But at the cost, I really can't complain. And with the millions of letters and packages they deal with each day, Fed-Ex and UPS seem to be doing just fine. In fact new people are coming on board. What's the new one? Some Yellow truck, 3 letters, can't remember the name. Socialized mail can't be that bad for business. Maybe that was President Obama's hidden agenda in asking kids to write a letter. It was to themselves, but maybe he'd had hopes they'd actually mail them and boost the profits of the USPS? Or maybe he'd had the market flooded and hoped they'd all lick some tainted stamps? The conspiracy theories flourish. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
You are dreaming... try to take away from the British and the Canadians what they have! Even Tatcher who privatized everything could not do it. You are misinformed... Now don´t now come with reports from the right extremists sites... Marcio -Original Message- From: mike xha...@gmail.com Sent: Sep 6, 2009 5:34 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... The UK and Canada are moving away from socialized medicine, not towards it. On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Marcio m...@ix.netcom.com wrote: I see no conflicts having socialized programs in a capitalist country. As a matter of fact I believe the world is moving in the direction. Marcio -Original Message- From: Rev. Stewart Marshall popoz...@earthlink.net Sent: Sep 6, 2009 3:52 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... Everyone shots themselves in the foot sometimes. Sometimes better than others. The government is not perfect but neither are we. Capitalism is not perfect either. There are some things better handle under the capitalist strategy and other things not. Stewart At 10:15 AM 9/6/2009, you wrote: This is standard wing-nut strategy to make government look bad. Of course. The guvmint never does anything to look bad. It's all a vast, right-wing conspiracy to undermine their natural efficiency. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
No I get your point. I have lived under both systems (Canada's and Ours) I have a very compelling interest in this. I think the right to purchase and get Insurance is a right! The problem is that we have made insurance only something for someone who can afford it and be eligible. My daughter tried to get insurance a few years ago on her own. Could not get coverage she was denied by one of the biggest carriers in our state. Why? She had asthma when she was younger. (Has not had it in over a decade.) Son works full time is not offered insurance and as I wrote earlier is gay (which is a reason for denial used by insurance companies) Insurance companies have written the rules to guarantee them profits and deny coverage whenever they so determine. Unless you have a full time job and make a decent wage you are not offered insurance or cannot afford it. I advocate all people being able to get insurance but make it affordable and easily gettable. (which it is not at this point) Is health care a right? Maybe maybe not, but the ability to afford it and get it should be. (By the way dirty little secret, people without insurance are charged much higher rates than people who do!!!) Stewart At 02:22 PM 9/6/2009, you wrote: You miss my point, Rev. I expect that of Tom, but you? We are being told that health care is a right. I disagree. Health care is paramount, no doubt, but it is no more a right than food or a place to live. I have a right to life, if nothing else, but I don't have a right to demand that someone provide me with food to eat. I have a right to be sheltered from the elements, but I don't have the right to demand that I be provided a home. If I want these thing, I must provide them for myself or enter into a charitable arrangement. Call me old fashioned for still believing in the work ethic. If someone must provide you with something of value in order to enjoy a right, then it is not a right, but instead a privilege. For me to enjoy my right to free speech, no one needs to build me soap box nor provide me with a megaphone. I can't even force you to listen. *That* is a right. Health care is not so easy. Very often people are frozen out of health care because they either cannot afford it. (most of the folks who sell cheap insurance are rip off artists) or they cannot get insurance. Then we should get the state out of the health care business and allow real competition to work, so that it can be affordable for everyone, just as it is for food and shelter. Guvmint interference has done far more harm than good in that regard. We already have examples of what to expect from guvmint run health care. Why hasn't anyone talked about reforming Medicare first? Shouldn't we see if that much more modest plan, already in existence, can be made sustainable and workable, before we talk about adding trillions more in spending that we don't have to begin with? Medicare is already going to be underwater in the next few years. How will O-Care be any different? I'm sure you've read it by now, but if not, read Whole Foods CEO John Mackey's op-ed on real reform in health care. Very good ideas in it and one of the few honest propositions in this debate. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204251404574342170072865070.ht ml And I will reiterate for clarity: I already spend much more on food and shelter than I do on health care, at any point in time. I don't consider myself lacking in any of the three. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
But you pay for us (USA) to have a military, public security, wars... roads and much more. Are you being coerced?...Or...you are sharing?... Marcio -Original Message- From: Jeff Wright jswri...@gmail.com Sent: Sep 6, 2009 5:26 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@listserv.aol.com Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... The beauty of the Single Payer is that we all will share the risks. Isn´t this one of the reasons that we live in society? That's what insurance is: risk pooling. It's also something I engage by choice, not coercion. I don't choose to be live in a society to be compelled, by the threat of force, to accept a system that offers no choice. That's not society, but a similar word that also begins with 's'. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
This once again goes with the assumption that a government health care option would destroy all private insurance companies. While I'd love to see this happen I doubt it would. Insurance companies are the largest business in the world. I think it would take a whole lot more then a government health insurance option to bring them down. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 6, 2009, at 12:21 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: Everyone shots themselves in the foot sometimes. Sometimes better than others. The government is not perfect but neither are we. Capitalism is not perfect either. There are some things better handle under the capitalist strategy and other things not. I find it odd that people look to a system that has only made things much less affordable over the years, not the system that has made most things much more affordable, as the preferred solution to accessible health care. Under a free market (not capitalist) option you have choices. Under the guvmint option, you have none. That is the critical difference. I never claimed it to be perfect. Just much, much better. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Why do so many believe this health OPTION would be forced on them? What part of the word OPTION do these people not understand? Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 6, 2009, at 1:26 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: The beauty of the Single Payer is that we all will share the risks. Isn´t this one of the reasons that we live in society? That's what insurance is: risk pooling. It's also something I engage by choice, not coercion. I don't choose to be live in a society to be compelled, by the threat of force, to accept a system that offers no choice. That's not society, but a similar word that also begins with 's'. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Who would have thought the unions and government would own a car company 15 years ago? Sent from my iPod On Sep 6, 2009, at 2:59 PM, Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net wrote: This once again goes with the assumption that a government health care option would destroy all private insurance companies. While I'd love to see this happen I doubt it would. Insurance companies are the largest business in the world. I think it would take a whole lot more then a government health insurance option to bring them down. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 6, 2009, at 12:21 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: Everyone shots themselves in the foot sometimes. Sometimes better than others. The government is not perfect but neither are we. Capitalism is not perfect either. There are some things better handle under the capitalist strategy and other things not. I find it odd that people look to a system that has only made things much less affordable over the years, not the system that has made most things much more affordable, as the preferred solution to accessible health care. Under a free market (not capitalist) option you have choices. Under the guvmint option, you have none. That is the critical difference. I never claimed it to be perfect. Just much, much better. *** *** *** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** *** *** *** *** ** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** *** ** * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Really? Where's your proof of that? Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 6, 2009, at 1:34 PM, mike wrote: The UK and Canada are moving away from socialized medicine, not towards it. On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Marcio m...@ix.netcom.com wrote: I see no conflicts having socialized programs in a capitalist country. As a matter of fact I believe the world is moving in the direction. Marcio -Original Message- From: Rev. Stewart Marshall popoz...@earthlink.net Sent: Sep 6, 2009 3:52 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... Everyone shots themselves in the foot sometimes. Sometimes better than others. The government is not perfect but neither are we. Capitalism is not perfect either. There are some things better handle under the capitalist strategy and other things not. Stewart At 10:15 AM 9/6/2009, you wrote: This is standard wing-nut strategy to make government look bad. Of course. The guvmint never does anything to look bad. It's all a vast, right-wing conspiracy to undermine their natural efficiency. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
I think I heard somewhere that Insurance companies profits are up 1000% the past 7-10 years while rates have gone up 300% in the same time frame. Someone is making money. Our rates went up less than 5% this year, but they are very high to begin with. Stewart At 04:59 PM 9/6/2009, you wrote: This once again goes with the assumption that a government health care option would destroy all private insurance companies. While I'd love to see this happen I doubt it would. Insurance companies are the largest business in the world. I think it would take a whole lot more then a government health insurance option to bring them down. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Yes, people without insurance, if they can afford the care, they are called private patients and pay much more than the ones who are insured. The docs, my colleagues, love them... In psychiatry, since the insurance coverage is so minimal even people who can barelly afford go the private way... psychiatrists love it. The other day I saw the paper work required from someone trying to have insurance. Unbelievable how much information the industry wants... if there is anything, I mean a mild depression when you lost your mother twenty years ago , you are denied. And the people who want to change insurances and in the mean time have gotten a cronic disease? They can´t even change jobs... What a mess! I will sound radical but medicine is not an activity that can be for profit. If you want to be a doctor this should not be your main motivation. Of course you like to earn a living with some confort... But money should not be your main motivation. If this is the case, get an MBA and become a banker... The same with hospitals and insurances... they can not be for profit. As simple as this Marcio MD -Original Message- From: Rev. Stewart Marshall popoz...@earthlink.net Sent: Sep 6, 2009 6:26 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... No I get your point. I have lived under both systems (Canada's and Ours) I have a very compelling interest in this. I think the right to purchase and get Insurance is a right! The problem is that we have made insurance only something for someone who can afford it and be eligible. My daughter tried to get insurance a few years ago on her own. Could not get coverage she was denied by one of the biggest carriers in our state. Why? She had asthma when she was younger. (Has not had it in over a decade.) Son works full time is not offered insurance and as I wrote earlier is gay (which is a reason for denial used by insurance companies) Insurance companies have written the rules to guarantee them profits and deny coverage whenever they so determine. Unless you have a full time job and make a decent wage you are not offered insurance or cannot afford it. I advocate all people being able to get insurance but make it affordable and easily gettable. (which it is not at this point) Is health care a right? Maybe maybe not, but the ability to afford it and get it should be. (By the way dirty little secret, people without insurance are charged much higher rates than people who do!!!) Stewart At 02:22 PM 9/6/2009, you wrote: You miss my point, Rev. I expect that of Tom, but you? We are being told that health care is a right. I disagree. Health care is paramount, no doubt, but it is no more a right than food or a place to live. I have a right to life, if nothing else, but I don't have a right to demand that someone provide me with food to eat. I have a right to be sheltered from the elements, but I don't have the right to demand that I be provided a home. If I want these thing, I must provide them for myself or enter into a charitable arrangement. Call me old fashioned for still believing in the work ethic. If someone must provide you with something of value in order to enjoy a right, then it is not a right, but instead a privilege. For me to enjoy my right to free speech, no one needs to build me soap box nor provide me with a megaphone. I can't even force you to listen. *That* is a right. Health care is not so easy. Very often people are frozen out of health care because they either cannot afford it. (most of the folks who sell cheap insurance are rip off artists) or they cannot get insurance. Then we should get the state out of the health care business and allow real competition to work, so that it can be affordable for everyone, just as it is for food and shelter. Guvmint interference has done far more harm than good in that regard. We already have examples of what to expect from guvmint run health care. Why hasn't anyone talked about reforming Medicare first? Shouldn't we see if that much more modest plan, already in existence, can be made sustainable and workable, before we talk about adding trillions more in spending that we don't have to begin with? Medicare is already going to be underwater in the next few years. How will O-Care be any different? I'm sure you've read it by now, but if not, read Whole Foods CEO John Mackey's op-ed on real reform in health care. Very good ideas in it and one of the few honest propositions in this debate. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204251404574342170072865070.ht ml And I will reiterate for clarity: I already spend much more on food and shelter than I do on health care, at any point in time. I don't consider myself lacking in any of the three. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
That's just stupid, but we already have food insurance of a sorts. They're called food stamps for those who can't afford food. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 6, 2009, at 1:37 PM, mike wrote: Imagine if you had food insurance, you could eat steak every day! On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 1:27 PM, Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net wrote: I pay less the $200/mo for food. Never really thought about food costs being high. Of course no one is this household is obese. And we eat steak twice a week. Chicken, pork and fish make up the other days. I agree that housing costs are through the roof. No pun intended. But I blame the banks mostly for this. Some have thought it a good idea making the insurance similar to a public utility. The cost of electricity has always been one of my pet peeves, especially living here in Washington STATE. It's all hydro. We should have the cheapest electricity costs in the nation. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 6, 2009, at 7:17 AM, Jeff Wright wrote: I appreciate your faith. I guess the most distressing part of the whole affair is seeing the wing nuts so ready to sell out their country for a sack of gold. They support the ultra-rich insurance barons, the M$s, the Comcasts, etc. and give the shiv to their fellow citizens. I'm really disappointed in Obama folding so early in the hand. There's so much more he could be doing. No family should ever go broke putting food on their table. No one should have to go into bankruptcy to put a roof over their heads. When is Obama going to force the food barons and the housing dons to provide cheap and affordable food and shelter? I pay more for these every year than I do health care! Single payer groceries and 3BR/2BA now! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
There is another option. No insurance no health care. In Canada they ask for your card. NO Card cash up front. That way they are guaranteed they will be paid. Everyone has insurance. You travel up there for a length of time, you buy coverage (supplemental-who said private cannot compete) Stewart At 05:13 PM 9/6/2009, you wrote: Why do so many believe this health OPTION would be forced on them? What part of the word OPTION do these people not understand? Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
I'm sure you can use the google as well as anyone. On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net wrote: Really? Where's your proof of that? Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 6, 2009, at 1:34 PM, mike wrote: The UK and Canada are moving away from socialized medicine, not towards it. On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Marcio m...@ix.netcom.com wrote: I see no conflicts having socialized programs in a capitalist country. As a matter of fact I believe the world is moving in the direction. Marcio -Original Message- From: Rev. Stewart Marshall popoz...@earthlink.net Sent: Sep 6, 2009 3:52 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... Everyone shots themselves in the foot sometimes. Sometimes better than others. The government is not perfect but neither are we. Capitalism is not perfect either. There are some things better handle under the capitalist strategy and other things not. Stewart At 10:15 AM 9/6/2009, you wrote: This is standard wing-nut strategy to make government look bad. Of course. The guvmint never does anything to look bad. It's all a vast, right-wing conspiracy to undermine their natural efficiency. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Why do so many believe this health OPTION would be forced on them? What part of the word OPTION do these people not understand? Do I need to point you to videos of Obama advocating a single payer plan or to the current proponents who have proposed the same over the years? This is a stalking horse for single payer. I don't trust the govt. to keep it's word. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
But you pay for us (USA) to have a military, public security, wars... roads and much more. Are you being coerced?...Or...you are sharing?... The military is provided for explicitly in the US Constitution. Roads are a given and again, are constitutionally provided, and with all due respect, *very* different from deciding which treatments will be covered in which will not and then, what coverage will be given in what amounts. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Don't know, but this is a bad thing why? After all, you and I are the government. I kind of like the idea of owning part of GM. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 6, 2009, at 3:13 PM, Mike wrote: Who would have thought the unions and government would own a car company 15 years ago? Sent from my iPod On Sep 6, 2009, at 2:59 PM, Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net wrote: This once again goes with the assumption that a government health care option would destroy all private insurance companies. While I'd love to see this happen I doubt it would. Insurance companies are the largest business in the world. I think it would take a whole lot more then a government health insurance option to bring them down. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Cop out. If you make a statement, be prepared to back it up. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 6, 2009, at 3:47 PM, mike wrote: I'm sure you can use the google as well as anyone. On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net wrote: Really? Where's your proof of that? Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 6, 2009, at 1:34 PM, mike wrote: The UK and Canada are moving away from socialized medicine, not towards it. On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Marcio m...@ix.netcom.com wrote: I see no conflicts having socialized programs in a capitalist country. As a matter of fact I believe the world is moving in the direction. Marcio -Original Message- From: Rev. Stewart Marshall popoz...@earthlink.net Sent: Sep 6, 2009 3:52 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... Everyone shots themselves in the foot sometimes. Sometimes better than others. The government is not perfect but neither are we. Capitalism is not perfect either. There are some things better handle under the capitalist strategy and other things not. Stewart At 10:15 AM 9/6/2009, you wrote: This is standard wing-nut strategy to make government look bad. Of course. The guvmint never does anything to look bad. It's all a vast, right-wing conspiracy to undermine their natural efficiency. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Roads are a given? And they're constitutionally provided? Where? Please post that part of the constitution for me. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 6, 2009, at 3:50 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: But you pay for us (USA) to have a military, public security, wars... roads and much more. Are you being coerced?...Or...you are sharing?... The military is provided for explicitly in the US Constitution. Roads are a given and again, are constitutionally provided, and with all due respect, *very* different from deciding which treatments will be covered in which will not and then, what coverage will be given in what amounts. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
No, you don't. The single payer plan, which is an option. No where have I seen it written or said by it's proponents that it would be required of everyone. It wouldn't be taken out of your paycheck automatically without your consent like social security or other taxes. What is so friggen hard to understand about this? If it passes and you want it, ask for it. If you don't, then don't. I know simple things are very hard for some, but damn. Maybe if the government passed it and made it really difficult to get and understand? Maybe then it would be more popular. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 6, 2009, at 3:50 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: Why do so many believe this health OPTION would be forced on them? What part of the word OPTION do these people not understand? Do I need to point you to videos of Obama advocating a single payer plan or to the current proponents who have proposed the same over the years? This is a stalking horse for single payer. I don't trust the govt. to keep it's word. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Jeff Milesjmile...@charter.net wrote: I was born and lived in Idaho for many years. I'm a strong supporter of gun rights. But these idiots bring guns to a presidential speeches need to be locked up just for being stupid. They bring their guns to those events not for protection - there are plenty of police at these functions - but rather to convey a veiled threat of death to those who oppose their views. Note than some of them carry a sign that harkens back to the Revolutionary War about how the tree of liberty is watered in part by the blood of tyrants. Thanks to the internet we can all see these fools and be aware of what they are trying to convey. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Search youtube for obama single payer, should be the first hit posted by nakedemporer. I'd post the link but I still can't copy/paste. Sent from my iPod On Sep 6, 2009, at 4:12 PM, Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net wrote: No, you don't. The single payer plan, which is an option. No where have I seen it written or said by it's proponents that it would be required of everyone. It wouldn't be taken out of your paycheck automatically without your consent like social security or other taxes. What is so friggen hard to understand about this? If it passes and you want it, ask for it. If you don't, then don't. I know simple things are very hard for some, but damn. Maybe if the government passed it and made it really difficult to get and understand? Maybe then it would be more popular. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 6, 2009, at 3:50 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: Why do so many believe this health OPTION would be forced on them? What part of the word OPTION do these people not understand? Do I need to point you to videos of Obama advocating a single payer plan or to the current proponents who have proposed the same over the years? This is a stalking horse for single payer. I don't trust the govt. to keep it's word. *** *** *** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** *** *** *** *** ** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** *** ** * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
First off politicians say a lot of things when they are working on getting elected and before they become candidates. Follow through is not very good. (Matter of fact it sucks) Once a politician gets elected they go into re-election mode. Which means many of their ideals get tempered. OK on the Mackey thing. Yes I did read it, and he has some great things to say, HOWEVER. You must have government mandate minimums. If they do not many companies will try and fly through with a bunch of worthless insurance. Instead of removing mandates, make them nation wide. At present we have 50 states that have 50 different standards. Cant do what Mackey wants without mandates. (By the way at present my health plan comes out of Minnesota while I live in Alabama so whose mandates am I covered by?) Mandate all companies of a certain size be required to offer insurance and allow like companies (food service, grocery etc.) to form co-ops to purchase coverage. I know the local guy who owns a Dairy Queen nice guy, but tighter than all get out. He will never offer insurance to his folks unless he is mandated to, or he an find a plan that is cheap enough to offer. Most fast food places are franchises so that they only have maybe 5-6 outlets and not enough purchasing power to get a decent plan for a decent amount. Even my own church body had to go with a few other church bodies and negotiate rates with providers (Typically with a large entity we are self insured but contract out the processing of the insurance to get better rates and coverage,) What will we end up with at the end of this present process? Who knows, but there is a lot of improvement that needs to be made. I do not see a single payer or a mandated minimum or coverage for all at present. Just an illustration of how bad some of the coverage is. At present my wife takes Mobic (Generic) which is a type of Cox2 inhibitor for Arthritis. She has been diagnosed Rheumatoid Arthritic for the past 5 years. She has been taking medication for it. Recently she started to develop GRD (Gastric Reflux Disease) which can be caused by many of these anti arthritis pain medications.) In talking with her primary physician about this he said a change of pain meds would be a good idea, and changed her to Celebrex as it is not free from problems but will aggravate her stomach less. Doctor gives her a few weeks of samples to see if it improves and helps. Lo and behold condition improves GRD dies down and she decides she should change permanently the Pain meds. Calls doctors office to get prescription to get it filled. They call it into pharmacy. We go to pharmacy a day later to pick it up and they tell us the prescription plan company would not authorize it. So off to home we trek without prescription and I get on phone. (Now before this I have gone over my formulary (you know the list of APPROVED and non approved medications and checked to see what it says) I get a pleasent lady on teh phone who tells me the doctor needs to call and get prior authorization for this medication because it is a STEP medication. (What that means is that you must have gone through required steps, over the counter, generic) before going on the name brand. So now we have to wait till Tuesday to call the doctors office and hope he will call the prescription company to get authorization to prescribe a needed medication for my wife. Oh it is this or my wife gets put on anotehr stomach medication to counter the reflux problem. (Nexium is a STEP medication so she cant get that either) Now before you think this is some fly by night company they are one of the 3 largest mail order pharmacies in the US. Many of you use this company but in order to save money and make sure we do not spend too much on medication I an required to go through these steps to get a medication on my formulary that my wife needs. (I am told my plan requires these things) What we need is more health plans like this right Stewart At 06:37 PM 9/6/2009, you wrote: Search youtube for obama single payer, should be the first hit posted by nakedemporer. I'd post the link but I still can't copy/paste. Sent from my iPod Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
They bring their guns to those events not for protection - there are plenty of police at these functions - but rather to convey a veiled threat of death to those who oppose their views. Note than some of them carry a sign that harkens back to the Revolutionary War about how the tree of liberty is watered in part by the blood of tyrants. One interpretation. Like it or not, this country still has freedom of expression and (in some places) the right to bear arms. I'm not sure a health care debate is the right place to carry a rifle, though. Their point is that the government exists only by the consent of the governed. Of the people, by the people, and for the people. And that the powers of government can be rescinded if necessary by an armed populace. Nobody that I know of argues that the current system isn't badly in need of repair. At least the debate has brought the elected representatives out of the woodwork and allowed them to present themselves to their constituencies on a highly visible stage. Sometimes it IS necessary to send a message to remind the powerful that they are not all that. Pfizer can pay a $2.3B fine and it's just the cost of doing business. Something is rotten in Denmark, here, folks. Sorry, no computer content. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Sep 6, 2009, at 8:08 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Lo and behold condition improves GRD dies down and she decides she should change permanently the Pain meds. Calls doctors office to get prescription to get it filled. They call it into pharmacy. We go to pharmacy a day later to pick it up and they tell us the prescription plan company would not authorize it. Ditto for my wife except that after months of arguing they continue to refuse approval. Hope you do better. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Wow, this kind of sounds like what I've gone through. I'm on SSI (which I don't feel guilty about since I've been paying for it my entire working adult life) and also Washington STATE medical assistance. I'm not quite sure why I'm on the Washington STATE medical thing but when I was in the ICU for a week with a heart problem the hospital signed me up for all kinds of crap I wasn't aware of. At the time my mind state was, whatever. Anyway my medication has always been very cheap or free due to this Washington STATE whatever plan. However, I've had occasion that I needed to have my doctor call or whatever and tell the pharmacy I was in this category or that, whatever. I was told it was all due to insurance companies, which I guess Washington STATE deals with, and them needing certain codes and categories, etc. Basically anything to make it as difficult as possible to meet the end of the contract they agreed to. Can you imagine buying a car and then having to ask for the tires? Once you get those you have to ask for the seat belts. And then you have to ask for the keys. And then.. This is all crap and insurance companies should be taken before congress, the courts, anyone and everyone and be tarred and feathered. They are worse then the Mafia ever was. They are worse then Bin Laden. They are even worse then (gasp) socialism. But for those willing to pay these crooks, I've got a home security system I'm going to sell you. Don't both signing up for it. I'll just bill you. And trust me, it's there and in place in your home. If you've made your payments and get robbed, let me know. I'll let you know if we'll cover it. If you have a problem with that, take me to court. By the way, if you haven't made your payments I'm going to send you to collection and ruin your credit. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 6, 2009, at 5:08 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: First off politicians say a lot of things when they are working on getting elected and before they become candidates. Follow through is not very good. (Matter of fact it sucks) Once a politician gets elected they go into re-election mode. Which means many of their ideals get tempered. OK on the Mackey thing. Yes I did read it, and he has some great things to say, HOWEVER. You must have government mandate minimums. If they do not many companies will try and fly through with a bunch of worthless insurance. Instead of removing mandates, make them nation wide. At present we have 50 states that have 50 different standards. Cant do what Mackey wants without mandates. (By the way at present my health plan comes out of Minnesota while I live in Alabama so whose mandates am I covered by?) Mandate all companies of a certain size be required to offer insurance and allow like companies (food service, grocery etc.) to form co-ops to purchase coverage. I know the local guy who owns a Dairy Queen nice guy, but tighter than all get out. He will never offer insurance to his folks unless he is mandated to, or he an find a plan that is cheap enough to offer. Most fast food places are franchises so that they only have maybe 5-6 outlets and not enough purchasing power to get a decent plan for a decent amount. Even my own church body had to go with a few other church bodies and negotiate rates with providers (Typically with a large entity we are self insured but contract out the processing of the insurance to get better rates and coverage,) What will we end up with at the end of this present process? Who knows, but there is a lot of improvement that needs to be made. I do not see a single payer or a mandated minimum or coverage for all at present. Just an illustration of how bad some of the coverage is. At present my wife takes Mobic (Generic) which is a type of Cox2 inhibitor for Arthritis. She has been diagnosed Rheumatoid Arthritic for the past 5 years. She has been taking medication for it. Recently she started to develop GRD (Gastric Reflux Disease) which can be caused by many of these anti arthritis pain medications.) In talking with her primary physician about this he said a change of pain meds would be a good idea, and changed her to Celebrex as it is not free from problems but will aggravate her stomach less. Doctor gives her a few weeks of samples to see if it improves and helps. Lo and behold condition improves GRD dies down and she decides she should change permanently the Pain meds. Calls doctors office to get prescription to get it filled. They call it into pharmacy. We go to pharmacy a day later to pick it up and they tell us the prescription plan company would not authorize it. So off to home we trek without prescription and I get on phone. (Now before this I have gone over my formulary (you
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
It sucks, and we pay a very high premium to get screwed like this. And before someone tells me to make another choice I have no choices it is this plan or none. (We can pay more for less deductibles on the medical, but that is the only difference.) Stewart At 07:28 PM 9/6/2009, you wrote: On Sep 6, 2009, at 8:08 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Lo and behold condition improves GRD dies down and she decides she should change permanently the Pain meds. Calls doctors office to get prescription to get it filled. They call it into pharmacy. We go to pharmacy a day later to pick it up and they tell us the prescription plan company would not authorize it. Ditto for my wife except that after months of arguing they continue to refuse approval. Hope you do better. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
This discussion is on a subject outside my expertise, but I did receive a link to this video from one of my Science feeds (evolvingthoughts.net). I thought you all might enjoy it. http://brightcove.newscientist.com/services/player/bcpid2227271001?bctid=30583310001 Mark * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: You must have government mandate minimums. If they do not many companies will try and fly through with a bunch of worthless insurance. Herein lies the major problem. What constitutes 'minimum' coverage? Yearly physicals (not part of Medicare), cosmetic surgery, sex change operations, flu shots, abortion, therapeutic massage, dental, psychiatric, optometric, etc. You can be sure that what is in or out will be decided politically or by which interest lobbies have the most clout. As Stewart points out, these are all decided at the state level now, so if we get a national minimum, it will be a maximum of everything in every state (wouldn't want some to lose a benefit). Second problem is the loss of the current ability to chose among plans with high, medium, and low deductibility. Obamacare cannot allow these options, otherwise a healthy 24 year old would choose a high deductibility at a very low premium, insuring himself only for catastrophic expenses. Obamacare needs large premiums from the young and healthy to pay to insure the currently uninsured. If insurance companies are not allowed to have different pools of procedures covered and different pools of the insured based on their risk, and different deductible levels, then we have lost the meaning of the word insurance. What we are left with is a method of paying for health care independent of any risk or need, much the way Social Security works. (And I am sure several of you out there would like to One last observation; I find it quite cynical of Speaker Pelosi to attack the health insurers. She must know that the only reason Medicare works (such as it does, and before it goes bankrupt), is that the private health insurers reimburse providers at a higher rate than Medicare. The only reason hospitals, and some doctors accept Medicare patients is because they make up from privately insured patients for their Medicare losses. Since the bills in Congress so far, plan to lower even further provider reimbursements for Medicare, she cannot afford to lose privately insured to a public option, as this would squeeze provider reimbursements even further. (Will doctors be allowed to refuse public option patients the way they can refuse Medicare patients?) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
I think what this video shows is that our medical care is all about making money and not about treating patients to a healthy outcome. I keep hearing the phrase let competition rule. I was taught many years ago, that the more doctors you have in a region the higher the prices. Doctors do not compete, they judge one another on the amount they make. So if one doctor raises prices, all of them will to stay even. Could you imagine what would happen if Doctors advertised and actually competed? Come see Dr. X we only charge XX for a regular visit. We also offer a money back guarantee!! Not going to happen. Stewart At 08:07 PM 9/6/2009, you wrote: This discussion is on a subject outside my expertise, but I did receive a link to this video from one of my Science feeds (evolvingthoughts.net). I thought you all might enjoy it. http://brightcove.newscientist.com/services/player/bcpid2227271001?bctid=30583310001 Mark * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
In Canada it covers minimum basic health care. No cosmetic surgery, no sex change operations, maybe flu shots, no therapeutic massage, Abortion was not legal till 20 years ago. Also no dental is included (private) some psychiatric is included and one basic eye exam a year. Also note you will stay in a ward at the hospital with 5 other people, and you have to pay to get a TV. (But you can have a beer in the evening.) It covers blood tests etc. You can even get an MRI or CT Scan with it. You will probably have tot ravel and it will not happen tomorrow, UNLESS it is an emergency. Some of the Doctors who practice in their premier hospitals (Specialty) are American and trained in American Hospitals. AS I have mentioned earlier I knew on Pediatric Cardiologist who did his training at Johns Hopkins, and a resident from Washington University, STL. Stewart At 08:26 PM 9/6/2009, you wrote: Herein lies the major problem. What constitutes 'minimum' coverage? Yearly physicals (not part of Medicare), cosmetic surgery, sex change operations, flu shots, abortion, therapeutic massage, dental, psychiatric, optometric, etc. You can be sure that what is in or out will be decided politically or by which interest lobbies have the most clout. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 8:21 PM, Eric S. Sandeesa...@erols.com wrote: Pfizer can pay a $2.3B fine and it's just the cost of doing business. Yet there are those, and they are legion, that prefer Pfizer and their ilk to run the healthcare system, and in many instances resist attempts to have controls and oversight placed over those corporations. Something is rotten in Denmark, here, folks. Yes, and thank goodness that our current administration has had the audacity to be willing to stir the pot on a stew that has needed stirring for a long, long time. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
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Oh I got stirred up a long time ago. Stewart At 10:03 PM 9/6/2009, you wrote: Yes, and thank goodness that our current administration has had the audacity to be willing to stir the pot on a stew that has needed stirring for a long, long time. Steve Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
FedEx and UPS have been using the US Postal Service for final delivery of many of their packages. This is private carriers using the _public option_ to save money. They ship long distance on their planes or trucks to the local or regional post office. Then the postal carriers deliver packages to the final destinations--residential or business. Works for the private companies and the P.O., and keeps the delivery prices lower when the vendors are honest about the SH charges. I believe by law that the USPS is required to deliver mail to any residence or business no matter where they are located within the US and it's territories. I know of no other country where the mail service is run by private contractors? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
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Tom is right in a way that conservatives have been wanting for a long time, but Mike is wrong--it's everybody's money except the wealthiest people who remain mostly untaxed. Social Security and Medicare are flat taxes, no exceptions, just what they love. However, there's a huge exception that needs to be corrected. Conservatives can have their flat tax, and everybody gets to pay tax on all of their income--no loopholes. I think it's now a combined 15% tax [7-1/2% each for employer and employee, or all 15% for self-employed]. By increasing the ceiling to include all income over $100,000 too, the tax could be lowered, both Social Security and Medicare will be solvent long into the future, and the conservatives will get their wish for a flat tax that's lower than it is now. Works for everyone. Brilliant! Socialism is great till you run out of everyone elses money. If gov't programs aren't supposed to make money, can we at least ask they don't LOSE so much? Simple. Just raise taxes. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
No, you don't. The single payer plan, which is an option. No where have I seen it written or said by it's proponents that it would be required of everyone. Jeff, that IS the single defining component of single payer. NO ONE else is paying other than the guvmint, which is kinda the point of *single* payer. Here, let me google that for you. Single-payer health care insurance is a public service financing the delivery of near-universal or universal health care to a given population as defined by age, citizenship, residency, or any other demographic. Single-payer health insurance operates by arranging the payment of services to doctors, hospitals, and other health care providers from a single source established and managed by government http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-payer_health_care First hit, for 'single payer.' * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
And vice versa. The USPS uses FedEx and UPS to bulk ship US Mail via their planes and trucks to other USPS facilities for mailbox delivery. This has nothing to do with public option. It is called subcontracting. This two way subcontracting already exists in health insurance. Medicare subcontracts administration to private companies. Mine is CMS. Large corporations do the reverse. They self-insure (assume the risk, set the policies) and contract health insurers strictly to administer their programs (health insurers have no gains or losses from the totality of employee claims). b_s-wilk wrote: FedEx and UPS have been using the US Postal Service for final delivery of many of their packages. This is private carriers using the _public option_ to save money. They ship long distance on their planes or trucks to the local or regional post office. Then the postal carriers deliver packages to the final destinations--residential or business. Works for the private companies and the P.O., and keeps the delivery prices lower when the vendors are honest about the SH charges. I believe by law that the USPS is required to deliver mail to any residence or business no matter where they are located within the US and it's territories. I know of no other country where the mail service is run by private contractors? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
I was taught many years ago, that the more doctors you have in a region the higher the prices. Doctors do not compete, they judge one another on the amount they make. So if one doctor raises prices, all of them will to stay even. Could you imagine what would happen if Doctors advertised and actually competed? Come see Dr. X we only charge XX for a regular visit. We also offer a money back guarantee!! The Lasik and laser eye surgery market is very competitive and you know the prices going in. They advertise heavily and compete with one another. Word of mouth referrals carry a great deal of weight. I personally know several people who have had these procedures done and all were very happy with the price and the results. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Roads are a given? And they're constitutionally provided? Where? Please post that part of the constitution for me. Oh fer cryin...You DO know how to use a search engine, right? 5th Amendment, takings clause, US Constitution. No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; **nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.** * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
OK on the Mackey thing. Yes I did read it, and he has some great things to say, HOWEVER. You must have government mandate minimums. If they do not many companies will try and fly through with a bunch of worthless insurance. Instead of removing mandates, make them nation wide. At present we have 50 states that have 50 different standards. Cant do what Mackey wants without mandates. (By the way at present my health plan comes out of Minnesota while I live in Alabama so whose mandates am I covered by?) Rev, now you miss his point. If you allow companies to compete over state lines, removing their captive audience, you won't *need* mandates. That's what competition is best at providing: choice. It's also good at providing lower cost alternatives. Mandate all companies of a certain size be required to offer insurance and allow like companies (food service, grocery etc.) to form co-ops to purchase coverage. C'mon now, do we need laws mandating what sections a grocery store must provide (and their size, shape and color) or do you think they do that so that they can win loyal customers? What we need is more health plans like this right No, what we need are more companies to provide competitive pressure. Your company doesn't provide it? That's OK, these 6 others do. Let markets do what they do best: weed out the losers. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Ok, and you have a problem with this why? Do you really hate the poor that much? I was mostly talking about the option everyone seems to be against. I know I hate it when I'm given options, don't you? As for paying for others health care, I really don't mind. We all end up paying for others sooner or later. If you keep them healthy, and get health costs under control, it'll more then likely be later then sooner. In other words, keep them working. Or at least able to work. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 6, 2009, at 9:33 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: No, you don't. The single payer plan, which is an option. No where have I seen it written or said by it's proponents that it would be required of everyone. Jeff, that IS the single defining component of single payer. NO ONE else is paying other than the guvmint, which is kinda the point of *single* payer. Here, let me google that for you. Single-payer health care insurance is a public service financing the delivery of near-universal or universal health care to a given population as defined by age, citizenship, residency, or any other demographic. Single-payer health insurance operates by arranging the payment of services to doctors, hospitals, and other health care providers from a single source established and managed by government http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-payer_health_care First hit, for 'single payer.' * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Hey ...leave Tom alone ...he got 'nuf cra'frum apr to last him... -Original Message- From: mike [mailto:xha...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 5:13 PM Subject: Re: Intensive Care Unit... Do you cover your eyes and ears when you say that? On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 6:36 AM, Jordan jor17...@gmail.com wrote: katan wrote: On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 23:50:30 -0400, t.piwowar wrote: America has its Dick Cheney. CGUYS has Chris Dunford. Ever notice how The List can have a pleasant conversation, or even a lively debate. . .until Tom joins in? No. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Quoting rleesimon rleesi...@gmail.com: Hey ...leave Tom alone ...he got 'nuf cra'frum apr to last him... Hey. He brings it on himself. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Well... he has been quite helpful to me... Marcio -Original Message- From: Reid Katan ka...@his.com Sent: Sep 5, 2009 2:44 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... Quoting rleesimon rleesi...@gmail.com: Hey ...leave Tom alone ...he got 'nuf cra'frum apr to last him... Hey. He brings it on himself. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Sep 5, 2009, at 5:18 PM Sep 5, Marcio wrote: Well... he has been quite helpful to me... Don't bother arguing with this bunch. What they have inflicted on this List in recent months is much like what the USA has had inflicted on it in recent weeks of wild attacks against rational health care. I don't know if you have been following any of this from afar, doctor, but it has been crazy. No rationality, just insults. Very sad. They even call me Hitler so I'm feeling in good company with President Obama. I think it best to take the lead from our esteemed Representative from Massachusetts... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGX-2oTNens He starts by asking: What planet are you on? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Quoting TPiwowar t...@tjpa.com: On Sep 5, 2009, at 5:18 PM Sep 5, Marcio wrote: Well... he has been quite helpful to me... Don't bother arguing with this bunch. What they have inflicted on this List in recent months is much like what the USA has had inflicted on it in recent weeks of wild attacks against rational health care. I don't know if you have been following any of this from afar, doctor, but it has been crazy. No rationality, just insults. Very sad. They even call me Hitler so I'm feeling in good company with President Obama. You mean like: On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 23:50:30 -0400, t.piwowar wrote: America has its Dick Cheney. CGUYS has Chris Dunford. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Don't bother arguing with this bunch. What they have inflicted on this List in recent months is much like what the USA has had inflicted on it in recent weeks of wild attacks against rational health care. I don't know if you have been following any of this from afar, doctor, but it has been crazy. No rationality, just insults. Very sad. I agree. I know that expect much better from our elected representatives and their lapdogs in the press. It's sad that a country that once prided itself on free expression has rulers and elites who can only look down their noses and spew slurs those that choose to speak their minds. Dissent is now treated as treason. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Ihave always been interested in health care as an MD and of course as a patient. I am very surprised that this great Country will not adopt a Single Payer, Medicare for all. But Americans will alwways do the right thing, after trying everything else. We will get there. Marcio -Original Message- From: Jeff Wright jswri...@gmail.com Sent: Sep 5, 2009 8:43 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... Don't bother arguing with this bunch. What they have inflicted on this List in recent months is much like what the USA has had inflicted on it in recent weeks of wild attacks against rational health care. I don't know if you have been following any of this from afar, doctor, but it has been crazy. No rationality, just insults. Very sad. I agree. I know that expect much better from our elected representatives and their lapdogs in the press. It's sad that a country that once prided itself on free expression has rulers and elites who can only look down their noses and spew slurs those that choose to speak their minds. Dissent is now treated as treason. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Sep 5, 2009, at 11:18 PM, Marcio wrote: Ihave always been interested in health care as an MD and of course as a patient. I am very surprised that this great Country will not adopt a Single Payer, Medicare for all. But Americans will alwways do the right thing, after trying everything else. We will get there. I appreciate your faith. I guess the most distressing part of the whole affair is seeing the wing nuts so ready to sell out their country for a sack of gold. They support the ultra-rich insurance barons, the M$s, the Comcasts, etc. and give the shiv to their fellow citizens. Did you catch the news report about one of them biting off the finger of someone who disagreed with them? Makes me glad that there is a computer separating us. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
But Americans will alwways do the right thing, after trying everything else. Yes, the system is supposed to be self-correcting. But it is naiive to suppose that institutions that have stakes in the game will leave the table. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 23:50:30 -0400, t.piwowar wrote: America has its Dick Cheney. CGUYS has Chris Dunford. Ever notice how The List can have a pleasant conversation, or even a lively debate. . .until Tom joins in? -- R:\katan LET'S GO METS!! LET'S GO METS!! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
katan wrote: On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 23:50:30 -0400, t.piwowar wrote: America has its Dick Cheney. CGUYS has Chris Dunford. Ever notice how The List can have a pleasant conversation, or even a lively debate. . .until Tom joins in? No. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Do you cover your eyes and ears when you say that? On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 6:36 AM, Jordan jor17...@gmail.com wrote: katan wrote: On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 23:50:30 -0400, t.piwowar wrote: America has its Dick Cheney. CGUYS has Chris Dunford. Ever notice how The List can have a pleasant conversation, or even a lively debate. . .until Tom joins in? No. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
America has its Dick Cheney. CGUYS has Chris Dunford. What an ignorant comment that is... * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
America has its Dick Cheney. CGUYS has Chris Dunford. What an ignorant comment that is... No, Chris, run with it. Ask Tom to go hunting. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Does it seem to you that it is serving you well? It used to be a good way to go but now it is more expensive and problematic than buying a good off the shelf machine. Building your own or having it built is something to do if you enjoy it. It's not going to save you money or give you a better computer. db Marcio wrote: Dell? No, I am always doing generic computers... I buy the parts... This is no good? Marcio -Original Message- From: Rev. Stewart Marshall popoz...@earthlink.net Sent: Sep 1, 2009 9:59 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... Actually Dells rank a little higher on the quality scale than HP's and I think even Gateways now. Stewart At 07:54 PM 9/1/2009, you wrote: Quoting Marcio m...@ix.netcom.com: What do you mean by Dells? Dell computers. www.dell.com They build computers. It would be like getting an HP or a Gateway or--gods forbid--a Mac. They build a fairly quality machine. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Tue, 1 Sep 2009 22:42:58 -0300, Marcio wrote: Dell? No, I am always doing generic computers... I buy the parts... This is no good? If you don't know what you're doing, or have a questionable shop, this is no good. Isn't this a computer that you use for business? You don't need the headaches or spending more time on the couch. (-: If you want to play with computers, get a Dell for work and build your own for home. -- R:\katan - SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!!! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
* I don´t have a Dell The suggestion is you buy one. Hee is their international sales page. http://multinationalexpansion.suite101.com/article.cfm/dell_computer_international_sales * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Marcio, Then your questions for this list will be more about what software can I run to accomplish such and such ... or how can I sync it to my telephone... and not how do I get it to start up... I've lost everything kind of issues... But we'll help you with whatever ... we're just hoping you don't keep subjecting yourself to the more dire problems... db John Settle wrote: * I don´t have a Dell The suggestion is you buy one. Hee is their international sales page. http://multinationalexpansion.suite101.com/article.cfm/dell_computer_international_sales * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Sep 2, 2009, at 8:11 AM, Chris Dunford wrote: We already know the answer to the questionable shop part. They've given Marcio some very wrong information twice (that we know about). Telling customers the truth is a very bad, unpardonable thing to do. Must keep pumping the M$ party line. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Sep 2, 2009, at 8:11 AM, Chris Dunford wrote: We already know the answer to the questionable shop part. They've given Marcio some very wrong information twice (that we know about). Telling customers the truth is a very bad, unpardonable thing to do. Must keep pumping the M$ party line. Unfortunately for your prejudices, the information he received was not the truth, it was wrong. Out-and-out, unadorned, irredeemably wrong. Not correct. False. Unsound. Counterfactual. Inaccurate. Defective. Faulty. Wrong. If you think otherwise, you have no clue what you're talking about. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
And the truth shall set you free. Stewart At 06:51 PM 9/2/2009, you wrote: On Sep 2, 2009, at 8:11 AM, Chris Dunford wrote: We already know the answer to the questionable shop part. They've given Marcio some very wrong information twice (that we know about). Telling customers the truth is a very bad, unpardonable thing to do. Must keep pumping the M$ party line. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Let me first thank all of you... Belonging to this group has saved me thousand of dollars from paying a psychoanalyst... Every opinion you give is a big help. The reason why I don´t move to another computer shop? Separation Anxiety... that is, I get attached to people (and things) and it is hard for me to depart from them... This applies to wife, clothes, cars, friends, computer shops, and... this list. I am coming to Batimore soon and I hope to bring back the Pentium 4 to test in the old computer...before I separate from it... Will let you all know... but if I become redundant and boring... let me know and I will move on to other computer issues... or... buy a Dell. They do have Dells in Brazil. In Brazilian Portuguese... Many thanks Marcio -Original Message- From: Rev. Stewart Marshall popoz...@earthlink.net Sent: Sep 2, 2009 10:01 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... And the truth shall set you free. Stewart At 06:51 PM 9/2/2009, you wrote: On Sep 2, 2009, at 8:11 AM, Chris Dunford wrote: We already know the answer to the questionable shop part. They've given Marcio some very wrong information twice (that we know about). Telling customers the truth is a very bad, unpardonable thing to do. Must keep pumping the M$ party line. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Sep 2, 2009, at 8:45 PM, Chris Dunford wrote: Unfortunately for your prejudices, the information he received was not the truth, it was wrong. Out-and-out, unadorned, irredeemably wrong. Not correct. False. Unsound. Counterfactual. Inaccurate. Defective. Faulty. Wrong. If you think otherwise, you have no clue what you're talking about. America has its Dick Cheney. CGUYS has Chris Dunford. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
I sent it to the shop. They were going to start from zero with Windows Vista. Then they called me to say that I should not do this becuase of many drivers. They thought I should do it with the XP Professional. Marcio, I said this the first time, and I'll say it again: You need to find a new computer shop. Last time they said that MS was taking Vista off the market because of too many bugs. This time it's the drivers. There is no problem with Vista and many drivers. These people do not know what they're talking about. I second the recommendations about Dell. They're not expensive, and they're reliable. This isn't worth your time. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Not only that depending on what you get you can choose XP or Vista. Stewart At 05:37 AM 9/1/2009, you wrote: I sent it to the shop. They were going to start from zero with Windows Vista. Then they called me to say that I should not do this becuase of many drivers. They thought I should do it with the XP Professional. Marcio, I said this the first time, and I'll say it again: You need to find a new computer shop. Last time they said that MS was taking Vista off the market because of too many bugs. This time it's the drivers. There is no problem with Vista and many drivers. These people do not know what they're talking about. I second the recommendations about Dell. They're not expensive, and they're reliable. This isn't worth your time. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
From: Computer Guys Discussion List [mailto:computerguy...@listserv.aol.com] On Behalf Of Rev. Stewart Marshall Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 8:28 AM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@listserv.aol.com Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... Not only that depending on what you get you can choose XP or Vista. I'm hard-pressed to come up with a reason to get XP at this point. Vista works fine, and most of the Dells purchased now will be eligible for an upgrade to Windows 7 when it's released next month. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Depends on what he is comfortable with. I admit I have been using Vista the last month and it is not at all as bad as I thought. It has a few quirks but I have not found a program yet that does not work with it. HOWEVER: If Marcio buys a refurbed computer there is no free upgrade I bought a new laptop this summer from Walmart for 300. It came with Vista home basic. No free upgrade. Stewart At 08:13 AM 9/1/2009, you wrote: Not only that depending on what you get you can choose XP or Vista. I'm hard-pressed to come up with a reason to get XP at this point. Vista works fine, and most of the Dells purchased now will be eligible for an upgrade to Windows 7 when it's released next month. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Sorry to take your time guys. As I said before, to some extent I enjoy computers and its vicissitudes... Talked with shop right now. I have a generic computer with an ASUS Mobo and a Pentium 4 (I believe 2.6). It was giving me all kinds of problems. It had Windows XP Pro and I have the Vista Upgrade. They said that when they get the computer ON in AM the processor temperature goes to 60 degrees but when they installed Vista the temperature went much higher and the computer stopped. They said that the solution is a new Pentium 4 Chip which I just bought and will bring back to them in the end of the month (I will be in Baltimore in September). I just want to see if the computer will work with the new Pentium 4, and if they can install Windows Vista so that I may upgrade when Windows 7 comes in. The guy said that they will do it...with the new chip. I am concerned... By the beginning of October I will give you all a follow up... Many thanks Marcio -Original Message- From: Chris Dunford seed...@gmail.com Sent: Sep 1, 2009 7:37 AM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@listserv.aol.com Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... I sent it to the shop. They were going to start from zero with Windows Vista. Then they called me to say that I should not do this becuase of many drivers. They thought I should do it with the XP Professional. Marcio, I said this the first time, and I'll say it again: You need to find a new computer shop. Last time they said that MS was taking Vista off the market because of too many bugs. This time it's the drivers. There is no problem with Vista and many drivers. These people do not know what they're talking about. I second the recommendations about Dell. They're not expensive, and they're reliable. This isn't worth your time. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Marcio, You are you own worst enemy! ... but as you say you love it. We all ... most of us anyway ... just wish you would do the easy and more inexpensive thing by leaving that boat anchor on the bottom where it now rests and belongs for all eternity and just get a computer off the shelf that is current and works. That shop is your enabler as in ... a unhealthy codependent relationship. But I guess if you got a Dell, we'd never hear from you again... :) When you come up and get that chip for your Jones, pick up a Dell too at the same time ... for your computing. db Marcio wrote: Sorry to take your time guys. As I said before, to some extent I enjoy computers and its vicissitudes... Talked with shop right now. I have a generic computer with an ASUS Mobo and a Pentium 4 (I believe 2.6). It was giving me all kinds of problems. It had Windows XP Pro and I have the Vista Upgrade. They said that when they get the computer ON in AM the processor temperature goes to 60 degrees but when they installed Vista the temperature went much higher and the computer stopped. They said that the solution is a new Pentium 4 Chip which I just bought and will bring back to them in the end of the month (I will be in Baltimore in September). I just want to see if the computer will work with the new Pentium 4, and if they can install Windows Vista so that I may upgrade when Windows 7 comes in. The guy said that they will do it...with the new chip. I am concerned... By the beginning of October I will give you all a follow up... Many thanks Marcio -Original Message- From: Chris Dunford seed...@gmail.com Sent: Sep 1, 2009 7:37 AM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@listserv.aol.com Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... I sent it to the shop. They were going to start from zero with Windows Vista. Then they called me to say that I should not do this becuase of many drivers. They thought I should do it with the XP Professional. Marcio, I said this the first time, and I'll say it again: You need to find a new computer shop. Last time they said that MS was taking Vista off the market because of too many bugs. This time it's the drivers. There is no problem with Vista and many drivers. These people do not know what they're talking about. I second the recommendations about Dell. They're not expensive, and they're reliable. This isn't worth your time. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Sep 1, 2009, at 2:51 PM Sep 1, db wrote: We all ... most of us anyway ... just wish you would do the easy and more inexpensive thing by leaving that boat anchor on the bottom where it now rests and belongs for all eternity and just get a computer off the shelf that is current and works. Are you suggesting that Marcio do something illegal with his hardware? PCs are toxic waste! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Sep 1, 2009, at 10:06 AM Sep 1, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Depends on what he is comfortable with. I just wiped a drive this a.m. and reinstalled M$'s latest good OS: Win XP. Why provide Apple with more fodder for its commercials? M$ is making its usual promises for the next OS, but I suspect it will be just another episode of Charlie Brown trying to kick that football, * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Well actually I might have been. Are you allowed to take Dells out of the States? db TPiwowar wrote: On Sep 1, 2009, at 2:51 PM Sep 1, db wrote: We all ... most of us anyway ... just wish you would do the easy and more inexpensive thing by leaving that boat anchor on the bottom where it now rests and belongs for all eternity and just get a computer off the shelf that is current and works. Are you suggesting that Marcio do something illegal with his hardware? PCs are toxic waste! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Yes and no. It depends on what is in them plus you void the warranty. I know Dell has a Canadian outlet (my in laws.) So I assume that they also have one in South America, Brazil. Stewart At 03:16 PM 9/1/2009, you wrote: Well actually I might have been. Are you allowed to take Dells out of the States? db TPiwowar wrote: On Sep 1, 2009, at 2:51 PM Sep 1, db wrote: We all ... most of us anyway ... just wish you would do the easy and more inexpensive thing by leaving that boat anchor on the bottom where it now rests and belongs for all eternity and just get a computer off the shelf that is current and works. Are you suggesting that Marcio do something illegal with his hardware? PCs are toxic waste! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
It could be a field goal but with your glasses you won't see anything anyway. On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 1:01 PM, TPiwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Sep 1, 2009, at 10:06 AM Sep 1, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Depends on what he is comfortable with. I just wiped a drive this a.m. and reinstalled M$'s latest good OS: Win XP. Why provide Apple with more fodder for its commercials? M$ is making its usual promises for the next OS, but I suspect it will be just another episode of Charlie Brown trying to kick that football, * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
I don´t have a Dell Rev. I have a generic computer. Marcio -Original Message- From: Rev. Stewart Marshall popoz...@earthlink.net Sent: Sep 1, 2009 4:46 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... Yes and no. It depends on what is in them plus you void the warranty. I know Dell has a Canadian outlet (my in laws.) So I assume that they also have one in South America, Brazil. Stewart At 03:16 PM 9/1/2009, you wrote: Well actually I might have been. Are you allowed to take Dells out of the States? db TPiwowar wrote: On Sep 1, 2009, at 2:51 PM Sep 1, db wrote: We all ... most of us anyway ... just wish you would do the easy and more inexpensive thing by leaving that boat anchor on the bottom where it now rests and belongs for all eternity and just get a computer off the shelf that is current and works. Are you suggesting that Marcio do something illegal with his hardware? PCs are toxic waste! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * I don´t have a Dell * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
What do you mean by Dells? Marcio -Original Message- From: db db...@att.net Sent: Sep 1, 2009 4:16 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... Well actually I might have been. Are you allowed to take Dells out of the States? db TPiwowar wrote: On Sep 1, 2009, at 2:51 PM Sep 1, db wrote: We all ... most of us anyway ... just wish you would do the easy and more inexpensive thing by leaving that boat anchor on the bottom where it now rests and belongs for all eternity and just get a computer off the shelf that is current and works. Are you suggesting that Marcio do something illegal with his hardware? PCs are toxic waste! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
I know, I am trying to work on my masoquist traits... with my analyst: myself. Marcio -Original Message- From: db db...@att.net Sent: Sep 1, 2009 2:51 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... Marcio, You are you own worst enemy! ... but as you say you love it. We all ... most of us anyway ... just wish you would do the easy and more inexpensive thing by leaving that boat anchor on the bottom where it now rests and belongs for all eternity and just get a computer off the shelf that is current and works. That shop is your enabler as in ... a unhealthy codependent relationship. But I guess if you got a Dell, we'd never hear from you again... :) When you come up and get that chip for your Jones, pick up a Dell too at the same time ... for your computing. db Marcio wrote: Sorry to take your time guys. As I said before, to some extent I enjoy computers and its vicissitudes... Talked with shop right now. I have a generic computer with an ASUS Mobo and a Pentium 4 (I believe 2.6). It was giving me all kinds of problems. It had Windows XP Pro and I have the Vista Upgrade. They said that when they get the computer ON in AM the processor temperature goes to 60 degrees but when they installed Vista the temperature went much higher and the computer stopped. They said that the solution is a new Pentium 4 Chip which I just bought and will bring back to them in the end of the month (I will be in Baltimore in September). I just want to see if the computer will work with the new Pentium 4, and if they can install Windows Vista so that I may upgrade when Windows 7 comes in. The guy said that they will do it...with the new chip. I am concerned... By the beginning of October I will give you all a follow up... Many thanks Marcio -Original Message- From: Chris Dunford seed...@gmail.com Sent: Sep 1, 2009 7:37 AM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@listserv.aol.com Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... I sent it to the shop. They were going to start from zero with Windows Vista. Then they called me to say that I should not do this becuase of many drivers. They thought I should do it with the XP Professional. Marcio, I said this the first time, and I'll say it again: You need to find a new computer shop. Last time they said that MS was taking Vista off the market because of too many bugs. This time it's the drivers. There is no problem with Vista and many drivers. These people do not know what they're talking about. I second the recommendations about Dell. They're not expensive, and they're reliable. This isn't worth your time. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Dell computers. www.dell.com They also have an outlet where they sell off lease computers and refurbs. I know you do not have a Dell. Marcio you have a shop built computer. I was responding to the guy who suggested you buy one while up here. Stewart At 07:16 PM 9/1/2009, you wrote: What do you mean by Dells? Marcio -Original Message- From: db db...@att.net Sent: Sep 1, 2009 4:16 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... Well actually I might have been. Are you allowed to take Dells out of the States? db TPiwowar wrote: On Sep 1, 2009, at 2:51 PM Sep 1, db wrote: We all ... most of us anyway ... just wish you would do the easy and more inexpensive thing by leaving that boat anchor on the bottom where it now rests and belongs for all eternity and just get a computer off the shelf that is current and works. Are you suggesting that Marcio do something illegal with his hardware? PCs are toxic waste! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Marcio you know what they say about a doctor who tries to cure himself Stewart At 07:23 PM 9/1/2009, you wrote: I know, I am trying to work on my masoquist traits... with my analyst: myself. Marcio -Original Message- From: db db...@att.net Sent: Sep 1, 2009 2:51 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... Marcio, You are you own worst enemy! ... but as you say you love it. We all ... most of us anyway ... just wish you would do the easy and more inexpensive thing by leaving that boat anchor on the bottom where it now rests and belongs for all eternity and just get a computer off the shelf that is current and works. That shop is your enabler as in ... a unhealthy codependent relationship. But I guess if you got a Dell, we'd never hear from you again... :) When you come up and get that chip for your Jones, pick up a Dell too at the same time ... for your computing. db Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Quoting Marcio m...@ix.netcom.com: What do you mean by Dells? Dell computers. www.dell.com They build computers. It would be like getting an HP or a Gateway or--gods forbid--a Mac. They build a fairly quality machine. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Marcio you know what they say about a doctor who tries to cure himself Stewart Rev, it's back to Aphorisms 101 for you. Aren't you thinking of lawyers? A lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client. But for doctors: Physician, heal thyself. I'm not convinced that's sound advice for psychiatrists, though. :) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
I know I was rejiggering it. Stewart At 07:52 PM 9/1/2009, you wrote: Marcio you know what they say about a doctor who tries to cure himself Stewart Rev, it's back to Aphorisms 101 for you. Aren't you thinking of lawyers? A lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client. But for doctors: Physician, heal thyself. I'm not convinced that's sound advice for psychiatrists, though. :) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Actually Dells rank a little higher on the quality scale than HP's and I think even Gateways now. Stewart At 07:54 PM 9/1/2009, you wrote: Quoting Marcio m...@ix.netcom.com: What do you mean by Dells? Dell computers. www.dell.com They build computers. It would be like getting an HP or a Gateway or--gods forbid--a Mac. They build a fairly quality machine. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
I know, I know... the patients always improve... the psychiatrists don´t. Would you believe that I lied in a couch for three and half years, four times a week (50 minutes) at a time that there were no computers?...What that didit do for me? I played the harmonica a little better... Marcio -Original Message- From: Chris Dunford seed...@gmail.com Sent: Sep 1, 2009 9:52 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... Marcio you know what they say about a doctor who tries to cure himself Stewart Rev, it's back to Aphorisms 101 for you. Aren't you thinking of lawyers? A lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client. But for doctors: Physician, heal thyself. I'm not convinced that's sound advice for psychiatrists, though. :) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Dell? No, I am always doing generic computers... I buy the parts... This is no good? Marcio -Original Message- From: Rev. Stewart Marshall popoz...@earthlink.net Sent: Sep 1, 2009 9:59 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... Actually Dells rank a little higher on the quality scale than HP's and I think even Gateways now. Stewart At 07:54 PM 9/1/2009, you wrote: Quoting Marcio m...@ix.netcom.com: What do you mean by Dells? Dell computers. www.dell.com They build computers. It would be like getting an HP or a Gateway or--gods forbid--a Mac. They build a fairly quality machine. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
I understand the feeling I still build my own. But sometimes you have to dump a problem (your local shop) and go with someone who has a pretty good proven track record. Plus with the right warranty they will be there and fix it under your supervision. Stewart At 08:42 PM 9/1/2009, you wrote: Dell? No, I am always doing generic computers... I buy the parts... This is no good? Marcio Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
I don´t know if you remember me... I discussed my Pentium 4 WindowsXP computer that was giving me all kinds of problems. Slow. Suddenly going off... and many more. I thought about re-installing XP on the topo of it, then I thought about installing Vista on the top. Finally it went totally off and would not boot, not even in the protected mode. I sent it to the shop. They were going to start from zero with Windows Vista. Then they called me to say that I should not do this becuase of many drivers. They thought I should do it with the XP Professional. Now they tell me that the Pentium 4 has something wrong with it because it gets too hot. They tried it in another computer andit was the same thing. Well, I am now in the market for a Pentium 4. But I am not sure if the problem is not the Mobo that I bought from them to begin with... They proposed building a totally new computer with the newest Intel chip (Li?)... very expensive. I don´t need this. I think I am going to shop for a Pentium 4 and see... Thoughts? Marcio * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 23:23:54 -0300, Marcio wrote: They proposed building a totally new computer with the newest Intel chip (Li?)... very expensive. I don´t need this. I think I am going to shop for a Pentium 4 and see... Thoughts? Dell. -- R:\katan LET'S GO METS!! LET'S GO METS!! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Do you have access to a computer from an official Dell outlet or such where you are? Here, you can get good machines from a local builder but very often not ... usually computers with 2nd drawer parts and usually for the same 1st drawer quality they will be more expensive than a mass produced computer from a good company like Dell. Computers are cheap nowdays... your time and blood pressure level is not. I would recommend buying something good and off the shelf. db Marcio wrote: I don´t know if you remember me... I discussed my Pentium 4 WindowsXP computer that was giving me all kinds of problems. Slow. Suddenly going off... and many more. I thought about re-installing XP on the topo of it, then I thought about installing Vista on the top. Finally it went totally off and would not boot, not even in the protected mode. I sent it to the shop. They were going to start from zero with Windows Vista. Then they called me to say that I should not do this becuase of many drivers. They thought I should do it with the XP Professional. Now they tell me that the Pentium 4 has something wrong with it because it gets too hot. They tried it in another computer andit was the same thing. Well, I am now in the market for a Pentium 4. But I am not sure if the problem is not the Mobo that I bought from them to begin with... They proposed building a totally new computer with the newest Intel chip (Li?)... very expensive. I don´t need this. I think I am going to shop for a Pentium 4 and see... Thoughts? Marcio * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
