Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes
also what are peoples opinions on digital djing in general? well, I only ever saw someone do it once at a party. it was kirk de giorgio, and it was pretty incredible and kind of changed my whole perception of it. his last 45 minutes was just classic after classic after classic, all sort of interwoven with each other to create something like I'd never heard. the only thing that I'm not that keen on at the minute is the tendancy to mess around with the track too much. sometimes, you just wanna hear the record how it should be played - as the producer intended it to be if you know what I mean. but I think thats just me, I guess it's good that there's more creativity in dj'ing these days..? _ - End of message text This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you give your consent to such monitoring
Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes
i used to think that until i played with Live. i think that as long as it's not all controlled with a mouse (that doesn't feel like djing, for sure) then it's the end result that matters. the things that can be done genuinely live, in a spontaneous way...which is the key here in software and using things like final scratch etc etc are amazing and allow big variety in the music being played. i personally think that we're on the edge of a huge change in the way people do things at this point in time robin... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My opinion that digital DJing is not dJ ing at all. . Thats the same than playing NBA on comp and thinking that you're playing in one team with Magic Jordan -Original Message- From: robin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 12:15 PM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: (313) Ableton Live mixes so apart from these mixes: Off world Party Time at http://www.lunarselector.com Non-Stop DJs All Cylinders at http://www.bootytronics.com/nsd/ the one James posted at http://www.hurlbotics.com and the Surgeon ones at http://www.dj-surgeon.com can anyone point me in the direction of any more Ableton Live created mixes? i'd love to hear one of Brendan Gillen's Ableton mixes for example. (a quick google around reveals this: http://www.redbullmusicacademy.com/index.php?mod=ShowComponentsModcompo nent_id=224 but no mp3s) anyone? also what are peoples opinions on digital djing in general? (better thing to discuss than mills eh?) ta robin...
Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes
and allow big variety in the music being played. I think this might be one of the most important points of it all. I think in general, certainly in the UK, theres a huge downturn in people being interested enough to go out to clubs. (obviously not all, some clubs are flourishing) and I think that maybe hearing a greater variety of music is one of the things drawing people back to places. people are bored of all the micro-genres, and having to go to different places to hear one particular strain of music. and, it's hard enough to just program a variety of music into a dj set - let alone actually trying to mix the things together. so maybe digital dj'ing allows someone to think more about programming than actual mixing (as it's virtually 'automatic') and I think that has to be a good thing. I think? _ - End of message text This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you give your consent to such monitoring
Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes
deep-z wrote: of coarse, if you have a MIDI controller along with Live! or let's say NI Traktor, it's ok. but main thing that starts to bother me is this: if all dj's will start using their pc's to mix things then vinyl business will eventualy die. look at by example soulseek or some direct connect hubs - how much of the music you can get from the net. what about artists supporting by buying their _records_ ? that's a good point...personally i buy huge amounts of vinyl anyway and it's gonna take a lot for me to switch to just relying on downloaded stuff (free or not)... ps. analog sound from a vinyl is uncompareable to digital sound. ok yet. the sound quality is also something that is important. i'm not sure i'd just buy mp3s from a site unless they were say above 256k encoded. in fact i'd rather switch to buying cds (or AIFF/WAV over the net)... i've got nowt against mp3 but to me it's just replced analogue tape, ok for mixes and stuff but for buying? i'd never touch an analogue tape for that. robin...
Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and allow big variety in the music being played. I think this might be one of the most important points of it all. I think in general, certainly in the UK, theres a huge downturn in people being interested enough to go out to clubs. (obviously not all, some clubs are flourishing) and I think that maybe hearing a greater variety of music is one of the things drawing people back to places. people are bored of all the micro-genres, and having to go to different places to hear one particular strain of music. exactly... and, it's hard enough to just program a variety of music into a dj set - let alone actually trying to mix the things together. so maybe digital dj'ing allows someone to think more about programming than actual mixing (as it's virtually 'automatic') and I think that has to be a good thing. I think? yeah the actual beatmatching is just the mechanical part of djing, the actual creative part is what goes with what and how does that effect the listener/floor/whatever...y'know the important stuff don't get me wrong tho i love vinyl and playing it on truntables etc but if you're not open to new stuff then that's not a good situation. robin...
RE: (313) Ableton Live mixes
Alex Bond wrote: so maybe digital dj'ing allows someone to think more about programming than actual mixing (as it's virtually 'automatic') and I think that has to be a good thing. I think? I'd actually say that digital dj'ing gives DJs the flexibility to choose how much automation they want to use - you're not *restricted* to nicely automated beatmatching and so on if you don't want to be. For example, I've been using Ableton heavily for over a year now (having used it on the Offworld Party Time and All Cylinders mixes, as well as playing out with it three or four times) and count myself as a pretty experienced user by now. Recently, however, I played with Final Scratch for the first time, and it was a major eye-opener. It's a different world from Ableton altogether; in the world of Ableton, if you want imprecision in your mixes, you have to actually *build it in* (do very minor adjustments to the warp markers etc to give the impression tracks are drifting subtly in and out of time), which is quite bizarre when you think about it. However, with Final Scatch, there's really no difference from vinyl mixing apart from the fact that you can play tracks that only exist on hard drive as well as tracks that exist on vinyl. So there's space in the world for both Final Scratch and Ableton Live, but the two of them represent completely opposite sides of the whole spectrum of digital mixing. Want to keep the rawness and imprecision of vinyl mixing without having to break your back carrying records around? Use Final Scratch. Want to be able to concentrate more on the arrangement, sound and programming of your mix than on the mechanics of mixing? Use Ableton Live. Ideally? Use a combination of the two as well as real records (that's my approach at least!). All in all, I do think it's a good thing that when a person thinks I'm going to do a mix there are a number of approaches he or she can adopt in producing that mix; each of which will play to different strengths that DJ might have, each of which will affect the nature and structure of the mix in interesting ways. Not all digital DJs will automate their beatmixing and concentrate more on structure; maybe the key thing to understand about digital DJing is that it will lead to a whole bunch of people doing a whole range of different things, a lot of which we can't really predict right now. Brendan www.lunarselector.com www.non-stop-djs.com
RE: (313) Ableton Live mixes
Nice. -Original Message- From: Brendan Nelson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 23 January 2004 11:48 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: (313) Ableton Live mixes Alex Bond wrote: so maybe digital dj'ing allows someone to think more about programming than actual mixing (as it's virtually 'automatic') and I think that has to be a good thing. I think? I'd actually say that digital dj'ing gives DJs the flexibility to choose how much automation they want to use - you're not *restricted* to nicely automated beatmatching and so on if you don't want to be. For example, I've been using Ableton heavily for over a year now (having used it on the Offworld Party Time and All Cylinders mixes, as well as playing out with it three or four times) and count myself as a pretty experienced user by now. Recently, however, I played with Final Scratch for the first time, and it was a major eye-opener. It's a different world from Ableton altogether; in the world of Ableton, if you want imprecision in your mixes, you have to actually *build it in* (do very minor adjustments to the warp markers etc to give the impression tracks are drifting subtly in and out of time), which is quite bizarre when you think about it. However, with Final Scatch, there's really no difference from vinyl mixing apart from the fact that you can play tracks that only exist on hard drive as well as tracks that exist on vinyl. So there's space in the world for both Final Scratch and Ableton Live, but the two of them represent completely opposite sides of the whole spectrum of digital mixing. Want to keep the rawness and imprecision of vinyl mixing without having to break your back carrying records around? Use Final Scratch. Want to be able to concentrate more on the arrangement, sound and programming of your mix than on the mechanics of mixing? Use Ableton Live. Ideally? Use a combination of the two as well as real records (that's my approach at least!). All in all, I do think it's a good thing that when a person thinks I'm going to do a mix there are a number of approaches he or she can adopt in producing that mix; each of which will play to different strengths that DJ might have, each of which will affect the nature and structure of the mix in interesting ways. Not all digital DJs will automate their beatmixing and concentrate more on structure; maybe the key thing to understand about digital DJing is that it will lead to a whole bunch of people doing a whole range of different things, a lot of which we can't really predict right now. Brendan www.lunarselector.com www.non-stop-djs.com *** Opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and not Entergy-Koch Trading Limited or its affiliated companies. This email and any files transmitted with it, including replies and forwarded copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently transmitted from the Company, are confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient. It may contain material protected by attorney-client privilege. If you are not listed on the To or Cc lines of the original email (or are not the person responsible for delivering to an intended recipient), then you are not an intended recipient and have received this email in error. Any use by an unintended recipient is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify the IT manager by telephone on +44 (0)20 7337 8300 or via email to [EMAIL PROTECTED], attaching this message. Please then delete this email and all attachments, and destroy any copies thereof. Thank you. ***
Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes
True, true - I've seen some great stuff done with both - but I think the game is about to get hotter - on Wednesday I witnessed one of the best, if not only real-time controllers for these packages - I can't say any more, as I'm under an NDA but the end of Feb will be very interesting... 23/1/04 11:47 AM Brendan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alex Bond wrote: so maybe digital dj'ing allows someone to think more about programming than actual mixing (as it's virtually 'automatic') and I think that has to be a good thing. I think? I'd actually say that digital dj'ing gives DJs the flexibility to choose how much automation they want to use - you're not *restricted* to nicely automated beatmatching and so on if you don't want to be. For example, I've been using Ableton heavily for over a year now (having used it on the Offworld Party Time and All Cylinders mixes, as well as playing out with it three or four times) and count myself as a pretty experienced user by now. Recently, however, I played with Final Scratch for the first time, and it was a major eye-opener. It's a different world from Ableton altogether; in the world of Ableton, if you want imprecision in your mixes, you have to actually *build it in* (do very minor adjustments to the warp markers etc to give the impression tracks are drifting subtly in and out of time), which is quite bizarre when you think about it. However, with Final Scatch, there's really no difference from vinyl mixing apart from the fact that you can play tracks that only exist on hard drive as well as tracks that exist on vinyl. So there's space in the world for both Final Scratch and Ableton Live, but the two of them represent completely opposite sides of the whole spectrum of digital mixing. Want to keep the rawness and imprecision of vinyl mixing without having to break your back carrying records around? Use Final Scratch. Want to be able to concentrate more on the arrangement, sound and programming of your mix than on the mechanics of mixing? Use Ableton Live. Ideally? Use a combination of the two as well as real records (that's my approach at least!). All in all, I do think it's a good thing that when a person thinks I'm going to do a mix there are a number of approaches he or she can adopt in producing that mix; each of which will play to different strengths that DJ might have, each of which will affect the nature and structure of the mix in interesting ways. Not all digital DJs will automate their beatmixing and concentrate more on structure; maybe the key thing to understand about digital DJing is that it will lead to a whole bunch of people doing a whole range of different things, a lot of which we can't really predict right now. Brendan www.lunarselector.com www.non-stop-djs.com
Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes
I'd agree robin but I think it happened 2 years ago and peoples perception is just now catching up. - Original Message - From: robin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 5:47 AM Subject: Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes i used to think that until i played with Live. i think that as long as it's not all controlled with a mouse (that doesn't feel like djing, for sure) then it's the end result that matters. the things that can be done genuinely live, in a spontaneous way...which is the key here in software and using things like final scratch etc etc are amazing and allow big variety in the music being played. i personally think that we're on the edge of a huge change in the way people do things at this point in time robin... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My opinion that digital DJing is not dJ ing at all. . Thats the same than playing NBA on comp and thinking that you're playing in one team with Magic Jordan -Original Message- From: robin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 12:15 PM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: (313) Ableton Live mixes so apart from these mixes: Off world Party Time at http://www.lunarselector.com Non-Stop DJs All Cylinders at http://www.bootytronics.com/nsd/ the one James posted at http://www.hurlbotics.com and the Surgeon ones at http://www.dj-surgeon.com can anyone point me in the direction of any more Ableton Live created mixes? i'd love to hear one of Brendan Gillen's Ableton mixes for example. (a quick google around reveals this: http://www.redbullmusicacademy.com/index.php?mod=ShowComponentsModcompo nent_id=224 but no mp3s) anyone? also what are peoples opinions on digital djing in general? (better thing to discuss than mills eh?) ta robin...
Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes
i think i'm gonna plump for one of these...nice and cheap too: http://www.evolution.co.uk/products/evo_xsession.htm i wonder if the mxf8 from the Notron people will be good (eh martin? :) i guess the AH xone 92 (drool) is the ultimate but at £1150 it's way out of my league! robin... Martin wrote: True, true - I've seen some great stuff done with both - but I think the game is about to get hotter - on Wednesday I witnessed one of the best, if not only real-time controllers for these packages - I can't say any more, as I'm under an NDA but the end of Feb will be very interesting... 23/1/04 11:47 AM Brendan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alex Bond wrote: so maybe digital dj'ing allows someone to think more about programming than actual mixing (as it's virtually 'automatic') and I think that has to be a good thing. I think? I'd actually say that digital dj'ing gives DJs the flexibility to choose how much automation they want to use - you're not *restricted* to nicely automated beatmatching and so on if you don't want to be. For example, I've been using Ableton heavily for over a year now (having used it on the Offworld Party Time and All Cylinders mixes, as well as playing out with it three or four times) and count myself as a pretty experienced user by now. Recently, however, I played with Final Scratch for the first time, and it was a major eye-opener. It's a different world from Ableton altogether; in the world of Ableton, if you want imprecision in your mixes, you have to actually *build it in* (do very minor adjustments to the warp markers etc to give the impression tracks are drifting subtly in and out of time), which is quite bizarre when you think about it. However, with Final Scatch, there's really no difference from vinyl mixing apart from the fact that you can play tracks that only exist on hard drive as well as tracks that exist on vinyl. So there's space in the world for both Final Scratch and Ableton Live, but the two of them represent completely opposite sides of the whole spectrum of digital mixing. Want to keep the rawness and imprecision of vinyl mixing without having to break your back carrying records around? Use Final Scratch. Want to be able to concentrate more on the arrangement, sound and programming of your mix than on the mechanics of mixing? Use Ableton Live. Ideally? Use a combination of the two as well as real records (that's my approach at least!). All in all, I do think it's a good thing that when a person thinks I'm going to do a mix there are a number of approaches he or she can adopt in producing that mix; each of which will play to different strengths that DJ might have, each of which will affect the nature and structure of the mix in interesting ways. Not all digital DJs will automate their beatmixing and concentrate more on structure; maybe the key thing to understand about digital DJing is that it will lead to a whole bunch of people doing a whole range of different things, a lot of which we can't really predict right now. Brendan www.lunarselector.com www.non-stop-djs.com
Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes
cough We have two of these Robin, well tacky and not enough nob's but they do the trick - needs new drivers as some things are just a little too slow for our liking. Not sure how long they are going to hold up as well... 23/1/04 12:29 PM [EMAIL PROTECTED] i think i'm gonna plump for one of these...nice and cheap too: http://www.evolution.co.uk/products/evo_xsession.htm i wonder if the mxf8 from the Notron people will be good (eh martin? :) i guess the AH xone 92 (drool) is the ultimate but at £1150 it's way out of my league! robin... Martin wrote: True, true - I've seen some great stuff done with both - but I think the game is about to get hotter - on Wednesday I witnessed one of the best, if not only real-time controllers for these packages - I can't say any more, as I'm under an NDA but the end of Feb will be very interesting... 23/1/04 11:47 AM Brendan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alex Bond wrote: so maybe digital dj'ing allows someone to think more about programming than actual mixing (as it's virtually 'automatic') and I think that has to be a good thing. I think? I'd actually say that digital dj'ing gives DJs the flexibility to choose how much automation they want to use - you're not *restricted* to nicely automated beatmatching and so on if you don't want to be. For example, I've been using Ableton heavily for over a year now (having used it on the Offworld Party Time and All Cylinders mixes, as well as playing out with it three or four times) and count myself as a pretty experienced user by now. Recently, however, I played with Final Scratch for the first time, and it was a major eye-opener. It's a different world from Ableton altogether; in the world of Ableton, if you want imprecision in your mixes, you have to actually *build it in* (do very minor adjustments to the warp markers etc to give the impression tracks are drifting subtly in and out of time), which is quite bizarre when you think about it. However, with Final Scatch, there's really no difference from vinyl mixing apart from the fact that you can play tracks that only exist on hard drive as well as tracks that exist on vinyl. So there's space in the world for both Final Scratch and Ableton Live, but the two of them represent completely opposite sides of the whole spectrum of digital mixing. Want to keep the rawness and imprecision of vinyl mixing without having to break your back carrying records around? Use Final Scratch. Want to be able to concentrate more on the arrangement, sound and programming of your mix than on the mechanics of mixing? Use Ableton Live. Ideally? Use a combination of the two as well as real records (that's my approach at least!). All in all, I do think it's a good thing that when a person thinks I'm going to do a mix there are a number of approaches he or she can adopt in producing that mix; each of which will play to different strengths that DJ might have, each of which will affect the nature and structure of the mix in interesting ways. Not all digital DJs will automate their beatmixing and concentrate more on structure; maybe the key thing to understand about digital DJing is that it will lead to a whole bunch of people doing a whole range of different things, a lot of which we can't really predict right now. Brendan www.lunarselector.com www.non-stop-djs.com
Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes
http://www.evolution.co.uk/products/evo_xsession.htm i wonder if the mxf8 from the Notron people will be good (eh martin? :) i guess the AH xone 92 (drool) is the ultimate but at £1150 it's way out of my league! Kirk had one I was looking at, It had 8 channels I think, and it had an ableton live logo on there. maybe that was a sticker? it was only small, very portable - not seen it since though, anyone know what it was, seemed pretty cool. _ - End of message text This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you give your consent to such monitoring
Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes
Kirk had one I was looking at, It had 8 channels I think, and it had an ableton live logo on there. maybe that was a sticker? Maybe it was the Evolution UC-33 with the Ableton overlay? http://www.ableton.com/index.php?main=news-archivesub=evolution_uc33 I use one of these with Live (and Logic in the studio), they're brilliant... Cheers, Tom
Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes
Is it Plastic or Metal Tom... PS, reviews section is live - send ya stuff for review fella :) 23/1/04 12:51 PM Tom [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kirk had one I was looking at, It had 8 channels I think, and it had an ableton live logo on there. maybe that was a sticker? Maybe it was the Evolution UC-33 with the Ableton overlay? http://www.ableton.com/index.php?main=news-archivesub=evolution_uc33 I use one of these with Live (and Logic in the studio), they're brilliant... Cheers, Tom
Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes
Tom Churchill wrote: Kirk had one I was looking at, It had 8 channels I think, and it had an ableton live logo on there. maybe that was a sticker? Maybe it was the Evolution UC-33 with the Ableton overlay? http://www.ableton.com/index.php?main=news-archivesub=evolution_uc33 I use one of these with Live (and Logic in the studio), they're brilliant... Cheers, Tom WHY can't someone make a controller in this price range that has both a bunch of knobs (as the UC-33 does) and sixteen faders? I'm still using my Peavey pc1600 but I really want knobs too... rant... -- Dennis DeSantis www.dennisdesantis.com
Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes
Maybe it was the Evolution UC-33 with the Ableton overlay? thats exactly what it was Tom, thanks for that. other folks, they're alright these, I tell ya.. _ - End of message text This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you give your consent to such monitoring
Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes
End of Feb, real turned metal knobs with lush dampers/// 23/1/04 12:52 PM Dennis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tom Churchill wrote: Kirk had one I was looking at, It had 8 channels I think, and it had an ableton live logo on there. maybe that was a sticker? Maybe it was the Evolution UC-33 with the Ableton overlay? http://www.ableton.com/index.php?main=news-archivesub=evolution_uc33 I use one of these with Live (and Logic in the studio), they're brilliant... Cheers, Tom WHY can't someone make a controller in this price range that has both a bunch of knobs (as the UC-33 does) and sixteen faders? I'm still using my Peavey pc1600 but I really want knobs too... rant...
RE: (313) Ableton Live mixes
i discovered ableton live a few days ago and have started to chop my vinyls into handy loops. it's really sick work but on the other hand i can't wait to add this to my vinyl/fs set. as far as i got it, most of you use ableton to play entire tracks with it? uhm, i can't open any mp3's here, you guys have got too much hd space for all the .wavs or ??? am i too dumb? cheers, ronny
Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes
Ronny Pries wrote: i discovered ableton live a few days ago and have started to chop my vinyls into handy loops. it's really sick work but on the other hand i can't wait to add this to my vinyl/fs set. as far as i got it, most of you use ableton to play entire tracks with it? uhm, i can't open any mp3's here, you guys have got too much hd space for all the .wavs or ??? am i too dumb? cheers, ronny No, it doesn't currently support mp3s. Personally, I use a combination of complete tracks and exported loops from tracks that I recombine during the set. -- Dennis DeSantis www.dennisdesantis.com
RE: (313) Ableton Live mixes
It seems one of many limitations of ableton, correct me if im wrong but these things irk me as these are things i automatically expected to be able to do. This is what you can't do: play mp3's be able to mix without having to put stupid markers into all tracks (unless its like banging 4/4) use both audo no midi play virtual instrument plugins I dont know who has time to put markers on all mp3 tracks especally with the clumbsy marker controls in ableton, not me. Quest Pond -Original Message- From: Ronny Pries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 23 January 2004 2:07 PM To: '313' Subject: RE: (313) Ableton Live mixes i discovered ableton live a few days ago and have started to chop my vinyls into handy loops. it's really sick work but on the other hand i can't wait to add this to my vinyl/fs set. as far as i got it, most of you use ableton to play entire tracks with it? uhm, i can't open any mp3's here, you guys have got too much hd space for all the .wavs or ??? am i too dumb? cheers, ronny
Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes
On 24-jan-04, at 2:23, Quest Pond wrote: use both audo no midi play virtual instrument plugins Ableton is a rewire master and slave application AFAIK so you could play it along with your favorite sequencer... I dont know who has time to put markers on all mp3 tracks especally with the clumbsy marker controls in ableton, not me. Quest Pond -Original Message- From: Ronny Pries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 23 January 2004 2:07 PM To: '313' Subject: RE: (313) Ableton Live mixes i discovered ableton live a few days ago and have started to chop my vinyls into handy loops. it's really sick work but on the other hand i can't wait to add this to my vinyl/fs set. as far as i got it, most of you use ableton to play entire tracks with it? uhm, i can't open any mp3's here, you guys have got too much hd space for all the .wavs or ??? am i too dumb? cheers, ronny
RE: (313) Ableton Live mixes
Ah but my favourite sequencer is the yamaha rs7000, my point is you shouldnt need to load up bloatware like cubase to be able to play midi stuff. But anyway this is getting to techie to be on 313 i feel. Quest Pond -Original Message- From: kj at technotourist dot org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 23 January 2004 2:34 PM To: Quest Pond Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; '313' Subject: Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes On 24-jan-04, at 2:23, Quest Pond wrote: use both audo no midi play virtual instrument plugins Ableton is a rewire master and slave application AFAIK so you could play it along with your favorite sequencer... I dont know who has time to put markers on all mp3 tracks especally with the clumbsy marker controls in ableton, not me. Quest Pond -Original Message- From: Ronny Pries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 23 January 2004 2:07 PM To: '313' Subject: RE: (313) Ableton Live mixes i discovered ableton live a few days ago and have started to chop my vinyls into handy loops. it's really sick work but on the other hand i can't wait to add this to my vinyl/fs set. as far as i got it, most of you use ableton to play entire tracks with it? uhm, i can't open any mp3's here, you guys have got too much hd space for all the .wavs or ??? am i too dumb? cheers, ronny
RE: (313) Ableton Live mixes
Ableton is a rewire master and slave application AFAIK so you could play it along with your favorite sequencer... Anyone who ever tried it knows it's a more attractive in theory over practice, no offense. Plus I find it think it's quite misleading for Live to be marketed as a MIDI device. It *doesn't do automation*. MIDI isn't (just) about software in my book. (Although I'm a dying breed admittedly.) k
Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes
24/1/04 1:36 AM Quest [EMAIL PROTECTED] getting to techie to be on 313 i feel But isn't this where we are at - the future and technology, certainly beats people have a pop at Jeff Mills... Martin Dust
RE: (313) Ableton Live mixes/Namm
No don't stop because of me, just getting interesting i thought. And while im at it, did anyone else check out the interesting stuff at NAMM. Both Dj and music making equipment. http://www.fdiskc.com/usrsyn/namm/2004/ Quest Pond -Original Message- From: Martin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 23 January 2004 2:40 PM To: Quest Pond; kj at technotourist dot org; '313'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes 24/1/04 1:36 AM Quest [EMAIL PROTECTED] getting to techie to be on 313 i feel But isn't this where we are at - the future and technology, certainly beats people have a pop at Jeff Mills... Martin Dust
RE: (313) Ableton Live mixes
i strongly dislike ableton. it's a good tool for studio style mixing, a great advance and added flexibility etc, but i still see it as studio style mixing. it makes mixing a very cerebral process; it's way geeky. and it's too safe. to me it is at odds with the pleasure of playing and listening to music, the alive-ness of music, and of mixing...simplicity... sure it sounds alive in the end when you can screw around with 500 loops it took you a week to cut up, but...i dunno. it's halfway between traditional mixing and production, but not as open-ended and versatile and hands-on as either...it just seems half-canned to me, music from concentrate just add ableton and stir. the complexities arent worth the result, or vice-versa. not that i dont enjoy some ableton mixes, but no more than i do traditional mixes -- usually not as much. people tend to go overboard with the layering of loops and frantic pace, which is fun at first, and good for booty music where you dont care to hear 3 minutes of the same track, but it takes too much energy and attention to listen to...i just wanna relax and hear some music not a vigorous exercise in sound editing...and when mixing, i wanna wander around crates throwing on whatever grabs me...the inclination to digitize and computerize (and perfect and control) everything can end up draining some of the joy out imo...its a cold cold world..i know there are loads of people older than myself on the list, but seeing people get excited about this stuff makes me feel like a dinosaur... _ There are now three new levels of MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! Learn more. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-uspage=hotmail/es2ST=1
Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes
No, it's not just you. Though, listening to a DJ literally remix a track right before your eyes can be a pretty excellent experience. Some DJ's don't like just playing tracks, and that's fine too. I guess if you want to just listen to a track, you can buy the record yourself and play it at home. Some DJ's I imagine might take this attitude. [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: sometimes, you just wanna hear the record how it should be played - as the producer intended it to be if you know what I mean. but I think thats just me, I guess it's good that there's more creativity in dj'ing these days..?
Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes
Just to add my 2 cents... I don't think Ableton was really every conceived of as a DJ tool in any sort of conventional sense. Sure, you CAN use it that way. But as has been discussed, it's a little too safe. When Robert Henke first built the Live prototype as a Max patch, it was for him to do his own live shows, using his own loops, but with the freedom to combine and collage (not a verb, I know) on the fly. This is primarily how I use it today - basically as an MPC on steroids. I just want to make sure, before we all write it off as a dead, that we realize that what we're really writing off is its use for a purpose for which it was never really intended. It's a little like finding out that your 808 can make drip coffee, then finding out that it's really bad coffee, then selling your 808 because it sucks. Or something. -- Dennis DeSantis www.dennisdesantis.com
Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes
you dont want the overhead of decoding multiple mp3 streams in realtime (by default, live reads the wav in realtime each time it plays, a lot like a record player... )applying pitch or time shifting, and then output as an uncompressed stream. you can upgrade hard drives with much more ease than a CPU, and ableton can read from CD or dvd, which helps (cd or dvd of .wav) -Joe i discovered ableton live a few days ago and have started to chop my vinyls into handy loops. it's really sick work but on the other hand i can't wait to add this to my vinyl/fs set. as far as i got it, most of you use ableton to play entire tracks with it? uhm, i can't open any mp3's here, you guys have got too much hd space for all the .wavs or ??? am i too dumb? cheers, ronny
Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes
unless your track was ripped from a ghetto record player (as a lot of the tracks I DJ in traktor are :( then you should not have to adjust the track a lot. keep in mind most production is taking place in a sequencer, be it hardware or computer, so the timing of most of the newer tracks is pretty consistant, save post-bounce edits, which SUCK when they throw the trakc off beat by half a bar or whatever. typically you can set a warp marker at the beginning and end of the track (or selection) and pull one or the other and line up the markers in between to the tracks transients, if its a 4/4 dancey track. hope this makes sens,e im flash-emailing at work :) -Joe On 24-jan-04, at 2:23, Quest Pond wrote: use both audo no midi play virtual instrument plugins Ableton is a rewire master and slave application AFAIK so you could play it along with your favorite sequencer... I dont know who has time to put markers on all mp3 tracks especally with the clumbsy marker controls in ableton, not me. Quest Pond -Original Message- From: Ronny Pries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 23 January 2004 2:07 PM To: '313' Subject: RE: (313) Ableton Live mixes i discovered ableton live a few days ago and have started to chop my vinyls into handy loops. it's really sick work but on the other hand i can't wait to add this to my vinyl/fs set. as far as i got it, most of you use ableton to play entire tracks with it? uhm, i can't open any mp3's here, you guys have got too much hd space for all the .wavs or ??? am i too dumb? cheers, ronny
RE: (313) Ableton Live mixes
i don't know whether this is going solely to you or the whole list. i don't speak often. but: closer to the edit!?! i don't know if he was using ableton, but i do believe that that is the potential of LIVE mixing loops that you 'spent a week to cut up'. if that is your vision, and that's how long it takes, and that's how nerdy you're willing to get then...sobeit. beautiful. and i aspire to it. -r --- J. T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i strongly dislike ableton. it's a good tool for studio style mixing, a great advance and added flexibility etc, but i still see it as studio style mixing. it makes mixing a very cerebral process; it's way geeky. and it's too safe. to me it is at odds with the pleasure of playing and listening to music, the alive-ness of music, and of mixing...simplicity... sure it sounds alive in the end when you can screw around with 500 loops it took you a week to cut up, but...i dunno. it's halfway between traditional mixing and production, but not as open-ended and versatile and hands-on as either...it just seems half-canned to me, music from concentrate just add ableton and stir. the complexities arent worth the result, or vice-versa. not that i dont enjoy some ableton mixes, but no more than i do traditional mixes -- usually not as much. people tend to go overboard with the layering of loops and frantic pace, which is fun at first, and good for booty music where you dont care to hear 3 minutes of the same track, but it takes too much energy and attention to listen to...i just wanna relax and hear some music not a vigorous exercise in sound editing...and when mixing, i wanna wander around crates throwing on whatever grabs me...the inclination to digitize and computerize (and perfect and control) everything can end up draining some of the joy out imo...its a cold cold world..i know there are loads of people older than myself on the list, but seeing people get excited about this stuff makes me feel like a dinosaur... _ There are now three new levels of MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! Learn more. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-usamp;page=hotmail/es2amp;ST=1
Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes
your 808 must be ghetto because mine makes some FINE coffee :p Just to add my 2 cents... I don't think Ableton was really every conceived of as a DJ tool in any sort of conventional sense. Sure, you CAN use it that way. But as has been discussed, it's a little too safe. When Robert Henke first built the Live prototype as a Max patch, it was for him to do his own live shows, using his own loops, but with the freedom to combine and collage (not a verb, I know) on the fly. This is primarily how I use it today - basically as an MPC on steroids. I just want to make sure, before we all write it off as a dead, that we realize that what we're really writing off is its use for a purpose for which it was never really intended. It's a little like finding out that your 808 can make drip coffee, then finding out that it's really bad coffee, then selling your 808 because it sucks. Or something. -- Dennis DeSantis www.dennisdesantis.com
Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes
nicely said dennis When Robert Henke first built the Live prototype as a Max patch, it was for him to do his own live shows, using his own loops, but with the freedom to combine and collage (not a verb, I know) on the fly. exactly! which from my p.o.v., makes it not so hot as a live tool as well depending on what sort of music you make...if you make more loop/groove-based or soundscapey stuff where layering and playing with fx is the hook and the excitement of the song its great, but if you make stuff with changing melodies, more narrative or song-based, it is not really much use..at least i have never found much use from it, i have it and dont use it. imo henke's genius is in reaktor, not ableton... It's a little like finding out that your 808 can make drip coffee, then finding out that it's really bad coffee, then selling your 808 because it sucks. hehe!! yech this coffee has too much cowbell! yeah i dont mean to write-off the program, or mixes done in ableton, i just do not see it as the future of music or as some new frontier for mixing. computer technology going up its own butt if you ask me, which ya didnt, rarrarwrr i'm off to the tarpits _ Find high-speed net deals comparison-shop your local providers here. https://broadband.msn.com
Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes
It's a little like finding out that your 808 can make drip coffee, then finding out that it's really bad coffee, then selling your 808 because it sucks. I find that at adding a bit of cowbell makes the coffee tastes much better... unlike the 303 coffee makers - the coffee always tastes too acidic. goodnight nurse MEK
Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes
J. T. wrote: imo henke's genius is in reaktor, not ableton... I think he might disagree with you. yeah i dont mean to write-off the program, or mixes done in ableton, i just do not see it as the future of music or as some new frontier for mixing. No single tool is the future of anything. The potential of any of it is only going to come to fruition in the hands of people. What Ableton has done (or has at least been the catalyst for) is a WHOLE lot more people doing live shows. -- Dennis DeSantis www.dennisdesantis.com
RE: (313) Ableton Live mixes
i think ACID was used for that mix. and yeah it's a good example of the use of software for a mixcould do with a few more hooks in there tho to contast with the minimalismbut that's just a personal taste thing. robin... - i don't know whether this is going solely to you or the - whole list. i don't - speak often. - - but: closer to the edit!?! - - i don't know if he was using ableton, but i do believe that - that is the - potential of LIVE mixing loops that you 'spent a week to cut - up'. if that is - your vision, and that's how long it takes, and that's how - nerdy you're - willing to get then...sobeit. - - beautiful. and i aspire to it. - - -r - - - --- J. T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - i strongly dislike ableton. it's a good tool for studio - style mixing, a - great advance and added flexibility etc, but i still see - it as studio style - - mixing. it makes mixing a very cerebral process; it's way - geeky. and it's - too safe. to me it is at odds with the pleasure of playing - and listening to - - music, the alive-ness of music, and of - mixing...simplicity... sure it - sounds - alive in the end when you can screw around with 500 loops - it took you a - week - to cut up, but...i dunno. it's halfway between traditional - mixing and - production, but not as open-ended and versatile and - hands-on as either...it - - just seems half-canned to me, music from concentrate just - add ableton and - stir. the complexities arent worth the result, or - vice-versa. not that i - dont enjoy some ableton mixes, but no more than i do - traditional mixes -- - usually not as much. people tend to go overboard with the - layering of loops - - and frantic pace, which is fun at first, and good for - booty music where you - - dont care to hear 3 minutes of the same track, but it - takes too much energy - - and attention to listen to...i just wanna relax and hear - some music not a - vigorous exercise in sound editing...and when mixing, i - wanna wander around - - crates throwing on whatever grabs me...the inclination to - digitize and - computerize (and perfect and control) everything can end - up draining some - of - the joy out imo...its a cold cold world..i know there are - loads of people - older than myself on the list, but seeing people get - excited about this - stuff makes me feel like a dinosaur... - - _ - There are now three new levels of MSN Hotmail Extra - Storage! Learn more. - http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-usamp;page=hotmail/es2amp;ST=1 - - - - --- - Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. - Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). - Version: 6.0.564 / Virus Database: 356 - Release Date: 19/01/2004 - -
RE: (313) Ableton Live mixes
we're talking about maybe 1-2% per mp3 stream. that is not the argument. besides, my notebook hd is already the max. size limit. on the other hand it's simply impossible to play with mp3 loops because mp3 isn't gapless (adds a few ms silence before and after the data area). i would just like to use ableton as cut-tool which i want to use for extracting loops from tracks. that's the only point where i would like to open mp3s. i bet that ableton will surely come up with a solution for the cut thing, most sound editors really lack on features when it comes about cutting loops from areas without drums (eh, where's the exact start point?). cheerio, ronny you dont want the overhead of decoding multiple mp3 streams in realtime (by default, live reads the wav in realtime each time it plays, a lot like a record player... )applying pitch or time shifting, and then output as an uncompressed stream. you can upgrade hard drives with much more ease than a CPU, and ableton can read from CD or dvd, which helps (cd or dvd of .wav) -Joe
Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes
[robin [EMAIL PROTECTED]] can anyone point me in the direction of any more Ableton Live created mixes? http://www.atomly.com/music/sets/ I'd check out the newest first: http://www.atomly.com/music/atomly_-_live_at_dbn_nye_20031231.mp3 It's a DJ set of sorts, though all tracks are by me. -- :: atomly :: [ [EMAIL PROTECTED] : www.atomly.com ... [ atomiq records : po box 805319 chicago il 60680 : 312.804.5389 ... [ e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for atomly info and updates ...
Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes
1-2 percent adds up. this is the reason ableton hasnt done it, check their forums - Original Message - From: Ronny Pries [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: '313' 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 10:59 AM Subject: RE: (313) Ableton Live mixes we're talking about maybe 1-2% per mp3 stream. that is not the argument. besides, my notebook hd is already the max. size limit. on the other hand it's simply impossible to play with mp3 loops because mp3 isn't gapless (adds a few ms silence before and after the data area). i would just like to use ableton as cut-tool which i want to use for extracting loops from tracks. that's the only point where i would like to open mp3s. i bet that ableton will surely come up with a solution for the cut thing, most sound editors really lack on features when it comes about cutting loops from areas without drums (eh, where's the exact start point?). cheerio, ronny you dont want the overhead of decoding multiple mp3 streams in realtime (by default, live reads the wav in realtime each time it plays, a lot like a record player... )applying pitch or time shifting, and then output as an uncompressed stream. you can upgrade hard drives with much more ease than a CPU, and ableton can read from CD or dvd, which helps (cd or dvd of .wav) -Joe
Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes
I dont use Ableton, but i have experienced this MP3 silence gap problem, since i work on Macromedia Flash. You can dynamically import external MP3 into your Flash movie. But forget it, if you wanna make a loop with it... While, its possible to import a WAV when you work on your source. And then Flash use its own internal MP3 encoder to export your movie as a SWF file. And i dunno which codec is used, but the loop is now in MP3 and is exactly the same length! No gaps! It loops perfectly. No idea how they did it...But for me it only means one thing..ITS POSSIBLE!! Id like it to be the defacto standard!! (And, yes its really encoded in MP3). - KiDD*e* - Original Message - From: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; '313' 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 6:14 PM Subject: Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes 1-2 percent adds up. this is the reason ableton hasnt done it, check their forums - Original Message - From: Ronny Pries [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: '313' 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 10:59 AM Subject: RE: (313) Ableton Live mixes we're talking about maybe 1-2% per mp3 stream. that is not the argument. besides, my notebook hd is already the max. size limit. on the other hand it's simply impossible to play with mp3 loops because mp3 isn't gapless (adds a few ms silence before and after the data area). i would just like to use ableton as cut-tool which i want to use for extracting loops from tracks. that's the only point where i would like to open mp3s. i bet that ableton will surely come up with a solution for the cut thing, most sound editors really lack on features when it comes about cutting loops from areas without drums (eh, where's the exact start point?). cheerio, ronny you dont want the overhead of decoding multiple mp3 streams in realtime (by default, live reads the wav in realtime each time it plays, a lot like a record player... )applying pitch or time shifting, and then output as an uncompressed stream. you can upgrade hard drives with much more ease than a CPU, and ableton can read from CD or dvd, which helps (cd or dvd of .wav) -Joe
Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes
[KiDDy*RaVeR [EMAIL PROTECTED]] I dont use Ableton, but i have experienced this MP3 silence gap problem, since i work on Macromedia Flash. You can dynamically import external MP3 into your Flash movie. But forget it, if you wanna make a loop with it... While, its possible to import a WAV when you work on your source. And then Flash use its own internal MP3 encoder to export your movie as a SWF file. And i dunno which codec is used, but the loop is now in MP3 and is exactly the same length! No gaps! It loops perfectly. No idea how they did it...But for me it only means one thing..ITS POSSIBLE!! Id like it to be the defacto standard!! (And, yes its really encoded in MP3). The Ogg Vorbis standard was specifically designed to have gapless play but this was an oversight when MP3 was designed. This has been a big problem for players as well (iPod, iRiver, etc), since you get gaps when you listen to chopped up MP3s of DJ mixes or MP3 rips of albums that were designed to play without a 2 second pre-gap. Some software MP3 players (e.g. Winamp) have devised schemes to work around it, but they're really nothing more than hacks that look for the beginning and end of actual audio data ahead of time. Having said that, it shouldn't be a problem for Ableton to get around that since they already pre-analyze a file and generate an ASD analysis file for it, which could easily contain the pertinent information for proper looping. I personally use Live in a DJ-like fashion, but I only play my own songs, so I already have them as WAVs. It's not like I'd be able to play whole songs as MP3s on the fly anyway, though, since Ableton's warping engine seems to choke on files that big and you have to resort to manually setting your own warp markers. Most composition software out there lets you load MP3s as samples, though, which is good since so many people pass their samples around the net that way. I really don't think it would be hard for Ableton to follow suit, but it seems that maybe they're just not interested. I know it was a feature they said they were definitely going to have back in the day, but it seems it's been pushed to the back of the priority list, which would indicate to me that it's more fraught with problems than we seem to think, because it's not like they haven't been doing a lot of updates to the software. -- :: atomly :: [ [EMAIL PROTECTED] : www.atomly.com ... [ atomiq records : po box 805319 chicago il 60680 : 312.804.5389 ... [ e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for atomly info and updates ...
Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes
there's also a gapless plugin for winamp which makes mp3s play seamlessly. i assume it just buffers the first few seconds of the next song when it senses the current one is about to end. I dont use Ableton, but i have experienced this MP3 silence gap problem, since i work on Macromedia Flash. You can dynamically import external MP3 into your Flash movie. But forget it, if you wanna make a loop with it... While, its possible to import a WAV when you work on your source. And then Flash use its own internal MP3 encoder to export your movie as a SWF file. And i dunno which codec is used, but the loop is now in MP3 and is exactly the same length! No gaps! It loops perfectly. No idea how they did it...But for me it only means one thing..ITS POSSIBLE!! Id like it to be the defacto standard!! (And, yes its really encoded in MP3). - KiDD*e* - Original Message - From: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; '313' 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 6:14 PM Subject: Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes 1-2 percent adds up. this is the reason ableton hasnt done it, check their forums - Original Message - From: Ronny Pries [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: '313' 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 10:59 AM Subject: RE: (313) Ableton Live mixes we're talking about maybe 1-2% per mp3 stream. that is not the argument. besides, my notebook hd is already the max. size limit. on the other hand it's simply impossible to play with mp3 loops because mp3 isn't gapless (adds a few ms silence before and after the data area). i would just like to use ableton as cut-tool which i want to use for extracting loops from tracks. that's the only point where i would like to open mp3s. i bet that ableton will surely come up with a solution for the cut thing, most sound editors really lack on features when it comes about cutting loops from areas without drums (eh, where's the exact start point?). cheerio, ronny you dont want the overhead of decoding multiple mp3 streams in realtime (by default, live reads the wav in realtime each time it plays, a lot like a record player... )applying pitch or time shifting, and then output as an uncompressed stream. you can upgrade hard drives with much more ease than a CPU, and ableton can read from CD or dvd, which helps (cd or dvd of .wav) -Joe _ Get a FREE online virus check for your PC here, from McAfee. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
RE: (313) Ableton Live mixes/Namm
here's a good little write-up from one of Detroit's finest- Craig Gonzales. http://www.detroitluv.com/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=13598 On Sat, 24 Jan 2004, Quest Pond wrote: No don't stop because of me, just getting interesting i thought. And while im at it, did anyone else check out the interesting stuff at NAMM. Both Dj and music making equipment. http://www.fdiskc.com/usrsyn/namm/2004/ Quest Pond -Original Message- From: Martin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 23 January 2004 2:40 PM To: Quest Pond; kj at technotourist dot org; '313'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: (313) Ableton Live mixes 24/1/04 1:36 AM Quest [EMAIL PROTECTED] getting to techie to be on 313 i feel But isn't this where we are at - the future and technology, certainly beats people have a pop at Jeff Mills... Martin Dust
