Re: [AFMUG] Ceragon IP-20c Password bug?

[Sterling Jacobson]

This is from the other side which should be the same version.

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jon Langeler
Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2017 7:45 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ceragon IP-20c Password bug?

What software version?

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


> On Mar 1, 2017, at 9:43 PM, Sterling Jacobson  wrote:
> 
> Uh, yeah, exactly.
> 
> Support isn't exactly forthcoming on the fact it just plain locked me out of 
> all my accounts on it.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup
> Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2017 6:32 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ceragon IP-20c Password bug?
> 
> Kinda like. 
> http://community.cambiumnetworks.com/t5/PTP-820-Licensed-Microwave/PTP-820-admin-user-locked-out/td-p/57347
>  
> ???
> 
>> On 3/1/2017 7:23 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:
>> So I'm pretty sure there is some sort of password bug on the Ceragon units.
>> 
>> I changed my password in the interface and then set the NTP time server and 
>> updated the time, which was like years past what it was currently reading 
>> after reboot.
>> 
>> I also changed the IP address.
>> 
>> I exited and re-entered the interface with the user/password just fine.
>> 
>> Then I "reset" the unit to reboot it.
>> 
>> Now no matter what I do no user/password combo works.
>> 
>> Ceragon tech says I need to RMA it.
>> 
>> I'm pissed.
>> 
>> I have the other unit set similarly, but I am afraid to "reset" or 
>> reboot/power cycle it now.
>> 
>> Any one seen this before?
> 

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.4 two aps pointing at the same location.

[George Skorup]

The only other thing I could think is to try playing with the front 
sector / back sector thing. That's part of the Cambium wifi TDD sync 
secret sauce. I have no idea what that does exactly, and I could be 
completely wrong, but a SWAG would be something along the lines of 
transmit frame spreading on Canopy. That sort of randomizes the AP 
beacon frame so SMs have a better chance of hearing it in a noisy 
environment, or in the FSK world, so beacon frames from multiple APs 
don't clobber each other.


On 3/1/2017 8:57 PM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote:


Yes both GPS synced.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 01, 2017 8:46 PM
*To:* af
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.4 two aps pointing at the same location.

I assume these APs are already synced?

If it's possible to get some of them onto 5ghz, that would be the way 
to go... otherwise, I'd say a 40mhz channel on one AP is worth a try.


On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 7:58 PM, George Skorup 
> wrote:


It isn't too hard to overload the front-end in the ePMP 1k. Just like 
the RocketM. I really doubt they're going to do a 2.4 ePMP 2000.


Can you try a 40MHz channel on one of the 2.4 APs and shut the other 
one off? I don't know your setup and terrain, but I would try an ePMP 
2k and off-load the customers with good LOS.


On 3/1/2017 7:37 PM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote:

So we have a site where all of the customers are south of the
tower and we have a 2.4 120 degree KP Performance antenna and ePMP
AP pointing at those customers. We have put a lot of SMs onto the
AP and before it gets to congested we wanted to add an additional
AP. It turns out most of the customers are covered by a 90 degree
sector so we put up a second 90 degree sector( again KP ) �on
2.4. I think where we screwed up is we installed this new sector
with 3 feet of horizontal separating from the other sector and no
vertical separation. ( they are side by side pointed in the same
direction)

�

When we fired it up the SMs on the other AP started to re reg.�
I have placed one of the APs at the top of the band on 20 mhz and
the other on the bottom on 20 mhz. Its better but they still drop
and register over and over.

�

�

So my question is. Has anyone put two 2.4 sectors on the same
tower pointing the same direction successfully? How much vertical
separation did you use? I am assuming vertical is going to be
better than what I did.

�

How much of a guard band did you use?

�

The 120 degree sector is older so it doesn�t have the same
shielding on top and bottom as the newer 90 degree KP sector. Just
FYI.

�

Thanks,

Brandon

�

�

�

�

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.4 two aps pointing at the same location.

[Brandon Yuchasz]

George,

Lots of near line of site on this location. We used it to offload old
900fsk. Ill put up 5ghz but not until summer when leaf cover is in full
bloom. 

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 7:59 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.4 two aps pointing at the same location.

 

It isn't too hard to overload the front-end in the ePMP 1k. Just like the
RocketM. I really doubt they're going to do a 2.4 ePMP 2000.

Can you try a 40MHz channel on one of the 2.4 APs and shut the other one
off? I don't know your setup and terrain, but I would try an ePMP 2k and
off-load the customers with good LOS.

On 3/1/2017 7:37 PM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote:

So we have a site where all of the customers are south of the tower and we
have a 2.4 120 degree KP Performance antenna and ePMP AP pointing at those
customers. We have put a lot of SMs onto the AP and before it gets to
congested we wanted to add an additional AP. It turns out most of the
customers are covered by a 90 degree sector so we put up a second 90 degree
sector( again KP ) �on 2.4. I think where we screwed up is we installed
this new sector with 3 feet of horizontal separating from the other sector
and no vertical separation. ( they are side by side pointed in the same
direction)

�

When we fired it up the SMs on the other AP started to re reg.� I have
placed one of the APs at the top of the band on 20 mhz and the other on the
bottom on 20 mhz. Its better but they still drop and register over and over.

�

�

So my question is. Has anyone put two 2.4 sectors on the same tower pointing
the same direction successfully? How much vertical separation did you use? I
am assuming vertical is going to be better than what I did.

�

How much of a guard band did you use?

�

The 120 degree sector is older so it doesn�t have the same shielding on
top and bottom as the newer 90 degree KP sector. Just FYI.

�

Thanks,

Brandon

�

�

�

�

 

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.4 two aps pointing at the same location.

[Brandon Yuchasz]

Yes both GPS synced. 

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 8:46 PM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.4 two aps pointing at the same location.

 

I assume these APs are already synced?

If it's possible to get some of them onto 5ghz, that would be the way to go... 
otherwise, I'd say a 40mhz channel on one AP is worth a try.

 

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 7:58 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

It isn't too hard to overload the front-end in the ePMP 1k. Just like the 
RocketM. I really doubt they're going to do a 2.4 ePMP 2000.

Can you try a 40MHz channel on one of the 2.4 APs and shut the other one off? I 
don't know your setup and terrain, but I would try an ePMP 2k and off-load the 
customers with good LOS.

On 3/1/2017 7:37 PM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote:

So we have a site where all of the customers are south of the tower and we have 
a 2.4 120 degree KP Performance antenna and ePMP AP pointing at those 
customers. We have put a lot of SMs onto the AP and before it gets to congested 
we wanted to add an additional AP. It turns out most of the customers are 
covered by a 90 degree sector so we put up a second 90 degree sector( again KP 
) �on 2.4. I think where we screwed up is we installed this new sector with 3 
feet of horizontal separating from the other sector and no vertical separation. 
( they are side by side pointed in the same direction)

�

When we fired it up the SMs on the other AP started to re reg.� I have placed 
one of the APs at the top of the band on 20 mhz and the other on the bottom on 
20 mhz. Its better but they still drop and register over and over.

�

�

So my question is. Has anyone put two 2.4 sectors on the same tower pointing 
the same direction successfully? How much vertical separation did you use? I am 
assuming vertical is going to be better than what I did.

�

How much of a guard band did you use?

�

The 120 degree sector is older so it doesn�t have the same shielding on top 
and bottom as the newer 90 degree KP sector. Just FYI.

�

Thanks,

Brandon

�

�

�

�

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.4 two aps pointing at the same location.

[Mathew Howard]

I assume these APs are already synced?

If it's possible to get some of them onto 5ghz, that would be the way to
go... otherwise, I'd say a 40mhz channel on one AP is worth a try.

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 7:58 PM, George Skorup 
wrote:

> It isn't too hard to overload the front-end in the ePMP 1k. Just like the
> RocketM. I really doubt they're going to do a 2.4 ePMP 2000.
>
> Can you try a 40MHz channel on one of the 2.4 APs and shut the other one
> off? I don't know your setup and terrain, but I would try an ePMP 2k and
> off-load the customers with good LOS.
>
> On 3/1/2017 7:37 PM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote:
>
> So we have a site where all of the customers are south of the tower and we
> have a 2.4 120 degree KP Performance antenna and ePMP AP pointing at those
> customers. We have put a lot of SMs onto the AP and before it gets to
> congested we wanted to add an additional AP. It turns out most of the
> customers are covered by a 90 degree sector so we put up a second 90 degree
> sector( again KP ) �on 2.4. I think where we screwed up is we installed
> this new sector with 3 feet of horizontal separating from the other sector
> and no vertical separation. ( they are side by side pointed in the same
> direction)
>
> �
>
> When we fired it up the SMs on the other AP started to re reg.� I have
> placed one of the APs at the top of the band on 20 mhz and the other on the
> bottom on 20 mhz. Its better but they still drop and register over and over.
>
> �
>
> �
>
> So my question is. Has anyone put two 2.4 sectors on the same tower
> pointing the same direction successfully? How much vertical separation did
> you use? I am assuming vertical is going to be better than what I did.
>
> �
>
> How much of a guard band did you use?
>
> �
>
> The 120 degree sector is older so it doesn�t have the same shielding on
> top and bottom as the newer 90 degree KP sector. Just FYI.
>
> �
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon
>
> �
>
> �
>
> �
>
> �
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ceragon IP-20c Password bug?

[Jon Langeler]

What software version?

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


> On Mar 1, 2017, at 9:43 PM, Sterling Jacobson  wrote:
> 
> Uh, yeah, exactly.
> 
> Support isn't exactly forthcoming on the fact it just plain locked me out of 
> all my accounts on it.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup
> Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2017 6:32 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ceragon IP-20c Password bug?
> 
> Kinda like. 
> http://community.cambiumnetworks.com/t5/PTP-820-Licensed-Microwave/PTP-820-admin-user-locked-out/td-p/57347
>  
> ???
> 
>> On 3/1/2017 7:23 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:
>> So I'm pretty sure there is some sort of password bug on the Ceragon units.
>> 
>> I changed my password in the interface and then set the NTP time server and 
>> updated the time, which was like years past what it was currently reading 
>> after reboot.
>> 
>> I also changed the IP address.
>> 
>> I exited and re-entered the interface with the user/password just fine.
>> 
>> Then I "reset" the unit to reboot it.
>> 
>> Now no matter what I do no user/password combo works.
>> 
>> Ceragon tech says I need to RMA it.
>> 
>> I'm pissed.
>> 
>> I have the other unit set similarly, but I am afraid to "reset" or 
>> reboot/power cycle it now.
>> 
>> Any one seen this before?
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Ceragon IP-20c Password bug?

[Sterling Jacobson]

Uh, yeah, exactly.

Support isn't exactly forthcoming on the fact it just plain locked me out of 
all my accounts on it.



-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup
Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2017 6:32 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ceragon IP-20c Password bug?

Kinda like. 
http://community.cambiumnetworks.com/t5/PTP-820-Licensed-Microwave/PTP-820-admin-user-locked-out/td-p/57347
 
???

On 3/1/2017 7:23 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:
> So I'm pretty sure there is some sort of password bug on the Ceragon units.
>
> I changed my password in the interface and then set the NTP time server and 
> updated the time, which was like years past what it was currently reading 
> after reboot.
>
> I also changed the IP address.
>
> I exited and re-entered the interface with the user/password just fine.
>
> Then I "reset" the unit to reboot it.
>
> Now no matter what I do no user/password combo works.
>
> Ceragon tech says I need to RMA it.
>
> I'm pissed.
>
> I have the other unit set similarly, but I am afraid to "reset" or 
> reboot/power cycle it now.
>
> Any one seen this before?

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.4 two aps pointing at the same location.

[George Skorup]

It isn't too hard to overload the front-end in the ePMP 1k. Just like 
the RocketM. I really doubt they're going to do a 2.4 ePMP 2000.


Can you try a 40MHz channel on one of the 2.4 APs and shut the other one 
off? I don't know your setup and terrain, but I would try an ePMP 2k and 
off-load the customers with good LOS.


On 3/1/2017 7:37 PM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote:


So we have a site where all of the customers are south of the tower 
and we have a 2.4 120 degree KP Performance antenna and ePMP AP 
pointing at those customers. We have put a lot of SMs onto the AP and 
before it gets to congested we wanted to add an additional AP. It 
turns out most of the customers are covered by a 90 degree sector so 
we put up a second 90 degree sector( again KP )  on 2.4. I think where 
we screwed up is we installed this new sector with 3 feet of 
horizontal separating from the other sector and no vertical 
separation. ( they are side by side pointed in the same direction)


When we fired it up the SMs on the other AP started to re reg.  I have 
placed one of the APs at the top of the band on 20 mhz and the other 
on the bottom on 20 mhz. Its better but they still drop and register 
over and over.


So my question is. Has anyone put two 2.4 sectors on the same tower 
pointing the same direction successfully? How much vertical separation 
did you use? I am assuming vertical is going to be better than what I did.


How much of a guard band did you use?

The 120 degree sector is older so it doesn�t have the same shielding 
on top and bottom as the newer 90 degree KP sector. Just FYI.


Thanks,

Brandon

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.4 two aps pointing at the same location.

[Jeremy]

I have done this with Ubiquiti on 10Mhz channels without issue.  We also
have a site with them back to back on 20MHz channels at both ends without
issue.  They have 4-5' of horizontal separation shooting the same direction
and 2-3' back to back.

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Brandon Yuchasz 
wrote:

> So we have a site where all of the customers are south of the tower and we
> have a 2.4 120 degree KP Performance antenna and ePMP AP pointing at those
> customers. We have put a lot of SMs onto the AP and before it gets to
> congested we wanted to add an additional AP. It turns out most of the
> customers are covered by a 90 degree sector so we put up a second 90 degree
> sector( again KP )  on 2.4. I think where we screwed up is we installed
> this new sector with 3 feet of horizontal separating from the other sector
> and no vertical separation. ( they are side by side pointed in the same
> direction)
>
>
>
> When we fired it up the SMs on the other AP started to re reg.  I have
> placed one of the APs at the top of the band on 20 mhz and the other on the
> bottom on 20 mhz. Its better but they still drop and register over and over.
>
>
>
>
>
> So my question is. Has anyone put two 2.4 sectors on the same tower
> pointing the same direction successfully? How much vertical separation did
> you use? I am assuming vertical is going to be better than what I did.
>
>
>
> How much of a guard band did you use?
>
>
>
> The 120 degree sector is older so it doesn’t have the same shielding on
> top and bottom as the newer 90 degree KP sector. Just FYI.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[AFMUG] ePMP 2.4 two aps pointing at the same location.

[Brandon Yuchasz]

So we have a site where all of the customers are south of the tower and we
have a 2.4 120 degree KP Performance antenna and ePMP AP pointing at those
customers. We have put a lot of SMs onto the AP and before it gets to
congested we wanted to add an additional AP. It turns out most of the
customers are covered by a 90 degree sector so we put up a second 90 degree
sector( again KP )  on 2.4. I think where we screwed up is we installed this
new sector with 3 feet of horizontal separating from the other sector and no
vertical separation. ( they are side by side pointed in the same direction)

 

When we fired it up the SMs on the other AP started to re reg.  I have
placed one of the APs at the top of the band on 20 mhz and the other on the
bottom on 20 mhz. Its better but they still drop and register over and over.

 

 

So my question is. Has anyone put two 2.4 sectors on the same tower pointing
the same direction successfully? How much vertical separation did you use? I
am assuming vertical is going to be better than what I did.

 

How much of a guard band did you use?

 

The 120 degree sector is older so it doesn't have the same shielding on top
and bottom as the newer 90 degree KP sector. Just FYI.

 

Thanks,

Brandon

 

 

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Ceragon IP-20c Password bug?

[George Skorup]

Kinda like. 
http://community.cambiumnetworks.com/t5/PTP-820-Licensed-Microwave/PTP-820-admin-user-locked-out/td-p/57347 
???


On 3/1/2017 7:23 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:

So I'm pretty sure there is some sort of password bug on the Ceragon units.

I changed my password in the interface and then set the NTP time server and 
updated the time, which was like years past what it was currently reading after 
reboot.

I also changed the IP address.

I exited and re-entered the interface with the user/password just fine.

Then I "reset" the unit to reboot it.

Now no matter what I do no user/password combo works.

Ceragon tech says I need to RMA it.

I'm pissed.

I have the other unit set similarly, but I am afraid to "reset" or reboot/power 
cycle it now.

Any one seen this before?

[AFMUG] Ceragon IP-20c Password bug?

[Sterling Jacobson]

So I'm pretty sure there is some sort of password bug on the Ceragon units.

I changed my password in the interface and then set the NTP time server and 
updated the time, which was like years past what it was currently reading after 
reboot.

I also changed the IP address.

I exited and re-entered the interface with the user/password just fine.

Then I "reset" the unit to reboot it.

Now no matter what I do no user/password combo works.

Ceragon tech says I need to RMA it.

I'm pissed.

I have the other unit set similarly, but I am afraid to "reset" or reboot/power 
cycle it now.

Any one seen this before?

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

Perhaps a new listafmug-cheers  :)

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
To: "af" 
Subject: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related 
discussions
Date: Wed, Mar 1, 2017 3:02 PM

I have a different perspective on this list 
I've been going to post something along this lines for a while, but since it 
came up today, I guess it's as good of a time as any

Back in the day none of us were quite sure what we were doing.   The need for a 
technical list was great.   We needed to discuss how to use this gear, what the 
new gear could do, etc...   Every day there was a new challenge for many of us, 
which someone else on the list had probably figured out.

Fast forward until now, For most of us, our networks have matured, or been 
sold.  Many of our core members aren't even really WISP's anymore.   For those 
who are still doing day to day operations, most of us have figured out how 
things work for us, and we really don't need discussions about network 
architecture and routing and the like.   Add to that the excellent resources 
that WISPA provides in the form of conferences where people can learn the 
technical skills they need, and technically-oriented mailing lists which they 
host, and this list starts to look a bit redundant from a technical-resource 
standpoint.

What this list has, which none of the others do, is a community of members 
which have grown up together and seen each other grow businesses, sell them, 
get rich, get sued, release products, survive tornadoes and other natural 
disasters, and all of the other things which bring people together.

On all of the other lists, such off-topic discussions as what Travis is 
investing in this week, and what Jaimie is cooking, and what movie Chuck is 
watching, and the awesome ramblings of Steve and so on would be squashed.  Yet 
we're all friends and like to discuss things.  Yes, the politics have gotten a 
bit out of control, but that's just a symptom that politics have gotten a bit 
out of control in this country.   

Personally, I see this list not as a technical resource, but a social resource. 
  Somewhere where we all know each other and a lot of each other's past history 
and drama.  So we talk more about everyday life and less about work?  I don't 
see a problem with this.  Where else is this going to occur?   I realize that 
this doesn't match the original vision for this list, but needs change and 
lists change.   What we need is a place to hang out and have conversations with 
our friends.  Why can't this list be that resource?

-forrest

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 12:25 PM, Paul McCall  wrote:








I shared this with Chuck McCown, and he suggested I share this with the list 
directly, so here goes.
 
Just FYI, in my normal business conversations with WISPs,  I get one or two 
people a week tell me they no longer look at the list because of all the BS, 
politics, etc..  I also don’t use AFMUG nearly as much
as I used to because of that.  
 
While it costs me $$ for every email sent (I have never complained), AWS is 
very solid and reliable, so it was a great choice.  That’s not the point of my 
comment.
 
People need to take that junk to some other venue, so we can focus on important 
technology and business needs, IMO. 

 
It probably won’t change but it’s my 2 cents.
 
Paul
 
 
Paul McCall, President
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800  
pa...@pdmnet.net
www.pdmnet.com
www.floridabroadband.com
 
 








-- 
Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
  

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

This 

Hell I even read it on my phone

I used to laugh at people that did that until I became one of them

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Josh Luthman" 
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Subject: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related 
discussions
Date: Wed, Mar 1, 2017 2:38 PM

The whole OT tag, IMO, is a joke.  I take 10 seconds glancing at the subject 
lines, read the ones I want to see, and then delete the rest.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
Another perspective:
The additional content drives eyeballs. It shows the list is active. You can't 
make 100% of people happy 100% of the time.

On Mar 1, 2017 2:18 PM, "Paul McCall"  wrote:







Maybe defining a little better what OT:    ?
 
I use filters all the time.  OT: originally meant (to me)... relevant 
discussions to the business but not necessarily technology.   What someone 
discusses emerging battery technology, or 401Ks for employees, or insurance, 
etc. etc.,
it used to be THAT was OT:
 
Sooo…. Maybe BS: or PRS:  Political, Religious or Social ?    Unless you 
“identify” your PRS content as just OT:  (sorry, couldn’t resist the 
trans-gender “identify” phrase) –  see, I have a sense of humor like the next 
guy.
 
It’s just become like there is just no limit, and if people (not just me) are 
going away from looking at the list, we have lost a LOT of good input from 
folks who are serious about their business, who don’t have time to delete 
threads.
 
Maybe, I just need more coffee 
J
 
Paul
 
 
 
-Original Message-

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen

Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2017 3:00 PM

To: af@afmug.com

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business 
related discussions
 
On 3/1/17 11:37, Chuck McCown wrote:
> Personally I don’t have any desire for the list to grow or shrink or

> change other than to remain a place where we can hang out.  This list

> is most certainly not a “safe place” and you will not see trigger

> warnings unless you see the occasional literal “trigger warning”.  It

> is kinda like a friendly bar that I can hang out in without my Mormon

> neighbors seeing me parked out front.
> 
 
 
If someone has a problem with the off topic stuff marked OT, then they need to 
learn how to filter it out in their mail client, not get hurt feelings than 
someone isn't protecting them with a safe place.
 
The only change I would suggest is to always mark off topic as [OT] which makes 
it stupid easy to create a subject filter looking for string "[OT]" and not 
worry about the letters o and t in sequence get caught in a normal word.
 
The social aspect of this list is the best part. I've been on lists that went 
out of control like the old SPAM-L, and AFMUG is not even close to the extreme 
SPAM-L was when it died.
 
~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions

[George Skorup]

I've stayed out of the political stuff. Just.. no. I have better things 
to do. That's not to say I think those conversations shouldn't take 
place here. It's Chuck's list, so whatever he says. And Paul pays for it 
as he said. I do think that it gets heated and a little nuts with all of 
the posts here sometimes, but whatever.


I was thinking about unsubscribing at one point, like you know, around 
that whole election day a few months back. But as Forrest pointed out, 
there are too many people here with valuable experiences, opinions, etc. 
and some that are not on other lists. I think this is a great place to 
hang out if everyone is reasonable and respectful. Ken and Forrest 
usually post in the most logical terms and I love that. Reading humor 
from others also makes me feel like I'm taking a quick break from 
reality. Rack/enclosure pr0n, etc.


Yeah, I've been around since Bullit and the Part-15.org days. We 
definitely don't need to go back to Michael's iron-fisted way of 
moderating. That's was just stupid. I understood at the time that he 
wanted to keep the vendor-specific stuff on their respective lists. 
Again, as Forrest said, we have evolved, and WISPA has that covered. I 
think it is so freakin cool to see a converged WISPAmerica/Animal Farm 
if only for the fact that those folks, new or old, who may only have 
ever been to WISPA shows will get the AF experience.


In the words of Forrest Gump... that's all I have to say about that.

On 3/1/2017 3:02 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

I have a different perspective on this list

I've been going to post something along this lines for a while, but 
since it came up today, I guess it's as good of a time as any


Back in the day none of us were quite sure what we were doing.   The 
need for a technical list was great.   We needed to discuss how to use 
this gear, what the new gear could do, etc..   Every day there was a 
new challenge for many of us, which someone else on the list had 
probably figured out.


Fast forward until now, For most of us, our networks have matured, or 
been sold.  Many of our core members aren't even really WISP's 
anymore.   For those who are still doing day to day operations, most 
of us have figured out how things work for us, and we really don't 
need discussions about network architecture and routing and the like. 
  Add to that the excellent resources that WISPA provides in the form 
of conferences where people can learn the technical skills they need, 
and technically-oriented mailing lists which they host, and this list 
starts to look a bit redundant from a technical-resource standpoint.


What this list has, which none of the others do, is a community of 
members which have grown up together and seen each other grow 
businesses, sell them, get rich, get sued, release products, survive 
tornadoes and other natural disasters, and all of the other things 
which bring people together.


On all of the other lists, such off-topic discussions as what Travis 
is investing in this week, and what Jaimie is cooking, and what movie 
Chuck is watching, and the awesome ramblings of Steve and so on would 
be squashed.  Yet we're all friends and like to discuss things.  Yes, 
the politics have gotten a bit out of control, but that's just a 
symptom that politics have gotten a bit out of control in this country.


Personally, I see this list not as a technical resource, but a social 
resource.   Somewhere where we all know each other and a lot of each 
other's past history and drama.  So we talk more about everyday life 
and less about work?  I don't see a problem with this.  Where else is 
this going to occur? I realize that this doesn't match the original 
vision for this list, but needs change and lists change.   What we 
need is a place to hang out and have conversations with our friends. 
Why can't this list be that resource?


-forrest

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 12:25 PM, Paul McCall > wrote:


I shared this with Chuck McCown, and he suggested I share this
with the list directly, so here goes.

/Just FYI, in my normal business conversations with WISPs,  I get
one or two people a week tell me they no longer look at the list
because of all the BS, politics, etc.  I also don’t use AFMUG
nearly as much as I used to because of that. /



/While it costs me $$ for every email sent (I have never
complained), AWS is very solid and reliable, so it was a great
choice.  That’s not the point of my comment./



/People need to take that junk to some other venue, so we can
focus on important technology and business needs, IMO. /



/It probably won’t change but it’s my 2 cents./

Paul

Paul McCall, President

PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800 

pa...@pdmnet.net 

Re: [AFMUG] 450 30MHz channels

[George Skorup]

If you have some SM downlink SNRs at the fringe of 4X, changing to 30MHz 
may make them drop down to 2X which could have a greater effect on frame 
utilization vs just staying on 20MHz. Only way to know is to try it.


I wish we could do 30MHz in the 5.4 band.

On 3/1/2017 4:14 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:

If you've got the noise floor and available spectrum I'd go for it.

-Sean

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 1:56 PM Dan Petermann > wrote:


Are any of you running 30MHz channels of your 450 gear?

All of our customers are installed at a minimum of 4X. We are
consistently hitting 100% downlink on some APs. Changing to a
30MHz wide channel should alleviate that issue (somewhat), correct?

Re: [AFMUG] 450 30MHz channels

[Craig Schmaderer]

If you have the spectrum it works great. I have one tower running ABAB on 60mhz 
since July running great.



From: Af  on behalf of Jaime Solorza 

Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2017 4:45:31 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 30MHz channels

I have one SCADA network using 30MHz channels and working well despite noise in 
area from two WISPs...

On Mar 1, 2017 3:14 PM, "Sean Heskett" 
> wrote:
If you've got the noise floor and available spectrum I'd go for it.

-Sean

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 1:56 PM Dan Petermann 
> wrote:
Are any of you running 30MHz channels of your 450 gear?

All of our customers are installed at a minimum of 4X. We are consistently 
hitting 100% downlink on some APs. Changing to a 30MHz wide channel should 
alleviate that issue (somewhat), correct?

Re: [AFMUG] 450 30MHz channels

[Jaime Solorza]

I have one SCADA network using 30MHz channels and working well despite
noise in area from two WISPs...

On Mar 1, 2017 3:14 PM, "Sean Heskett"  wrote:

> If you've got the noise floor and available spectrum I'd go for it.
>
> -Sean
>
> On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 1:56 PM Dan Petermann  wrote:
>
>> Are any of you running 30MHz channels of your 450 gear?
>>
>> All of our customers are installed at a minimum of 4X. We are
>> consistently hitting 100% downlink on some APs. Changing to a 30MHz wide
>> channel should alleviate that issue (somewhat), correct?
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] In Home Wireless Extension

[Jaime Solorza]

UniFi APs work well in large homes where I have installed them.

On Mar 1, 2017 1:01 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> I've never been a fan of wireless mesh anything. Too many "invisible"
> parts. I would lean toward Sterlings original idea; a separate WAP on each
> floor; interconnected via ethernet. You might test it with powerline
> adapters. If those work; continue. Maybe keep them permanently.
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 12:01 PM, Chuck McCown 
> wrote:
>
>
> I should mention, I have a three level house too.  Routers are on the
> middle
> floor.  About as central to the whole house as possible.
> I wonder if concrete has more attenuation than my subfloor?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Chuck McCown
> Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:55 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] In Home Wireless Extension
>
> I have a product called "warm board" as sub flooring.  It is 7/8" thick
> plywood with aluminum sheeting bonded to one side.  It has channels for my
> radiant heating system.  It is also a very good RF shield.
>
> My Calix 844E is usable throughout the whole house, but it has some weak
> areas.
> I am trying a router from IgniteNet that Harold sent me.  I thought it was
> not as good, but after downloading an app that will give me wifi signals in
> dBm, it is showing 2-3 dB hotter than the Calix in the areas I have tested.
>
> So far, I am sticking with one AP for the whole house.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Sterling Jacobson
> Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:52 PM
> To: 'af@afmug.com'
> Subject: [AFMUG] In Home Wireless Extension
>
> I have a customer with a "trendy" home that has concrete floors, three
> floors.
>
> One AP isn't doing very well to reach the entire house.
>
> They use Apple, so I'm thinking buying a bunch of refurbished Airport
> Extreme units and plugging them in on each floor via Ethernet.
>
> I know it's not mesh, but I don't think Mesh is going to work at all
> through
> concrete.
>
> I see this as the best option for them.
>
> Any other opinions?
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 450 30MHz channels

[Sean Heskett]

If you've got the noise floor and available spectrum I'd go for it.

-Sean

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 1:56 PM Dan Petermann  wrote:

> Are any of you running 30MHz channels of your 450 gear?
>
> All of our customers are installed at a minimum of 4X. We are consistently
> hitting 100% downlink on some APs. Changing to a 30MHz wide channel should
> alleviate that issue (somewhat), correct?

[AFMUG] 450 30MHz channels

[Dan Petermann]

Are any of you running 30MHz channels of your 450 gear?

All of our customers are installed at a minimum of 4X. We are consistently 
hitting 100% downlink on some APs. Changing to a 30MHz wide channel should 
alleviate that issue (somewhat), correct?

Re: [AFMUG] In Home Wireless Extension

[Mitch Koep]

We have had very good luck with the UBNT UniFi UAP-HP covering large 
concrete


homes

Mitch Koep

218-851-8689 cell


On 03/01/2017 02:10 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
I've never been a fan of wireless mesh anything. Too many "invisible" 
parts. I would lean toward Sterlings original idea; a separate WAP on 
each floor; interconnected via ethernet. You might test it with 
powerline adapters. If those work; continue. Maybe keep them permanently.




On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 12:01 PM, Chuck McCown  
wrote:



I should mention, I have a three level house too.  Routers are on the 
middle

floor.  About as central to the whole house as possible.
I wonder if concrete has more attenuation than my subfloor?

-Original Message-
From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] In Home Wireless Extension

I have a product called "warm board" as sub flooring. It is 7/8" thick
plywood with aluminum sheeting bonded to one side.  It has channels for my
radiant heating system.  It is also a very good RF shield.

My Calix 844E is usable throughout the whole house, but it has some weak
areas.
I am trying a router from IgniteNet that Harold sent me.  I thought it was
not as good, but after downloading an app that will give me wifi 
signals in
dBm, it is showing 2-3 dB hotter than the Calix in the areas I have 
tested.


So far, I am sticking with one AP for the whole house.

-Original Message-
From: Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:52 PM
To: 'af@afmug.com '
Subject: [AFMUG] In Home Wireless Extension

I have a customer with a "trendy" home that has concrete floors, three
floors.

One AP isn't doing very well to reach the entire house.

They use Apple, so I'm thinking buying a bunch of refurbished Airport
Extreme units and plugging them in on each floor via Ethernet.

I know it's not mesh, but I don't think Mesh is going to work at all 
through

concrete.

I see this as the best option for them.

Any other opinions?






--
Mitch Koep

A Better Wireless
218-851-8689 cell

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I have a different perspective on this list

I've been going to post something along this lines for a while, but since
it came up today, I guess it's as good of a time as any

Back in the day none of us were quite sure what we were doing.   The need
for a technical list was great.   We needed to discuss how to use this
gear, what the new gear could do, etc..   Every day there was a new
challenge for many of us, which someone else on the list had probably
figured out.

Fast forward until now, For most of us, our networks have matured, or been
sold.  Many of our core members aren't even really WISP's anymore.   For
those who are still doing day to day operations, most of us have figured
out how things work for us, and we really don't need discussions about
network architecture and routing and the like.   Add to that the excellent
resources that WISPA provides in the form of conferences where people can
learn the technical skills they need, and technically-oriented mailing
lists which they host, and this list starts to look a bit redundant from a
technical-resource standpoint.

What this list has, which none of the others do, is a community of members
which have grown up together and seen each other grow businesses, sell
them, get rich, get sued, release products, survive tornadoes and other
natural disasters, and all of the other things which bring people together.

On all of the other lists, such off-topic discussions as what Travis is
investing in this week, and what Jaimie is cooking, and what movie Chuck is
watching, and the awesome ramblings of Steve and so on would be squashed.
Yet we're all friends and like to discuss things.  Yes, the politics have
gotten a bit out of control, but that's just a symptom that politics have
gotten a bit out of control in this country.

Personally, I see this list not as a technical resource, but a social
resource.   Somewhere where we all know each other and a lot of each
other's past history and drama.  So we talk more about everyday life and
less about work?  I don't see a problem with this.  Where else is this
going to occur?   I realize that this doesn't match the original vision for
this list, but needs change and lists change.   What we need is a place to
hang out and have conversations with our friends.  Why can't this list be
that resource?

-forrest

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 12:25 PM, Paul McCall  wrote:

> I shared this with Chuck McCown, and he suggested I share this with the
> list directly, so here goes.
>
>
>
> *Just FYI, in my normal business conversations with WISPs,  I get one or
> two people a week tell me they no longer look at the list because of all
> the BS, politics, etc.  I also don’t use AFMUG nearly as much as I used to
> because of that.  *
>
>
>
> *While it costs me $$ for every email sent (I have never complained), AWS
> is very solid and reliable, so it was a great choice.  That’s not the point
> of my comment.*
>
>
>
> *People need to take that junk to some other venue, so we can focus on
> important technology and business needs, IMO.  *
>
>
>
> *It probably won’t change but it’s my 2 cents.*
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
> Paul McCall, President
>
> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>
> 772-564-6800 <(772)%20564-6800>
>
> pa...@pdmnet.net
>
> www.pdmnet.com
>
> www.floridabroadband.com
>
>
>
>
>



-- 
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
  

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions

[Josh Luthman]

The whole OT tag, IMO, is a joke.  I take 10 seconds glancing at the
subject lines, read the ones I want to see, and then delete the rest.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> Another perspective:
>
> The additional content drives eyeballs. It shows the list is active. You
> can't make 100% of people happy 100% of the time.
>
> On Mar 1, 2017 2:18 PM, "Paul McCall"  wrote:
>
>> Maybe defining a little better what *OT:*?
>>
>>
>>
>> I use filters all the time.  OT: originally meant (to me)... relevant
>> discussions to the business but not necessarily technology.   What someone
>> discusses emerging battery technology, or 401Ks for employees, or
>> insurance, etc. etc., it used to be THAT was OT:
>>
>>
>>
>> Sooo…. Maybe BS: or PRS:  Political, Religious or Social ?Unless you
>> “identify” your PRS content as just OT:  (sorry, couldn’t resist the
>> trans-gender “identify” phrase) –  see, I have a sense of humor like the
>> next guy.
>>
>>
>>
>> It’s just become like there is just no limit, and if people (not just me)
>> are going away from looking at the list, we have lost a LOT of good input
>> from folks who are serious about their business, who don’t have time to
>> delete threads.
>>
>>
>>
>> Maybe, I just need more coffee J
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2017 3:00 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business
>> related discussions
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/1/17 11:37, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>> > Personally I don’t have any desire for the list to grow or shrink or
>>
>> > change other than to remain a place where we can hang out.  This list
>>
>> > is most certainly not a “safe place” and you will not see trigger
>>
>> > warnings unless you see the occasional literal “trigger warning”.  It
>>
>> > is kinda like a friendly bar that I can hang out in without my Mormon
>>
>> > neighbors seeing me parked out front.
>>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> If someone has a problem with the off topic stuff marked OT, then they
>> need to learn how to filter it out in their mail client, not get hurt
>> feelings than someone isn't protecting them with a safe place.
>>
>>
>>
>> The only change I would suggest is to always mark off topic as [OT] which
>> makes it stupid easy to create a subject filter looking for string "[OT]"
>> and not worry about the letters o and t in sequence get caught in a normal
>> word.
>>
>>
>>
>> The social aspect of this list is the best part. I've been on lists that
>> went out of control like the old SPAM-L, and AFMUG is not even close to the
>> extreme SPAM-L was when it died.
>>
>>
>>
>> ~Seth
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions

[Josh Reynolds]

Another perspective:

The additional content drives eyeballs. It shows the list is active. You
can't make 100% of people happy 100% of the time.

On Mar 1, 2017 2:18 PM, "Paul McCall"  wrote:

> Maybe defining a little better what *OT:*?
>
>
>
> I use filters all the time.  OT: originally meant (to me)... relevant
> discussions to the business but not necessarily technology.   What someone
> discusses emerging battery technology, or 401Ks for employees, or
> insurance, etc. etc., it used to be THAT was OT:
>
>
>
> Sooo…. Maybe BS: or PRS:  Political, Religious or Social ?Unless you
> “identify” your PRS content as just OT:  (sorry, couldn’t resist the
> trans-gender “identify” phrase) –  see, I have a sense of humor like the
> next guy.
>
>
>
> It’s just become like there is just no limit, and if people (not just me)
> are going away from looking at the list, we have lost a LOT of good input
> from folks who are serious about their business, who don’t have time to
> delete threads.
>
>
>
> Maybe, I just need more coffee J
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
> Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2017 3:00 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business
> related discussions
>
>
>
> On 3/1/17 11:37, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> > Personally I don’t have any desire for the list to grow or shrink or
>
> > change other than to remain a place where we can hang out.  This list
>
> > is most certainly not a “safe place” and you will not see trigger
>
> > warnings unless you see the occasional literal “trigger warning”.  It
>
> > is kinda like a friendly bar that I can hang out in without my Mormon
>
> > neighbors seeing me parked out front.
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> If someone has a problem with the off topic stuff marked OT, then they
> need to learn how to filter it out in their mail client, not get hurt
> feelings than someone isn't protecting them with a safe place.
>
>
>
> The only change I would suggest is to always mark off topic as [OT] which
> makes it stupid easy to create a subject filter looking for string "[OT]"
> and not worry about the letters o and t in sequence get caught in a normal
> word.
>
>
>
> The social aspect of this list is the best part. I've been on lists that
> went out of control like the old SPAM-L, and AFMUG is not even close to the
> extreme SPAM-L was when it died.
>
>
>
> ~Seth
>

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-businessrelated discussions

[Chuck McCown]

From: Ryan Ray 
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 1:23 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP 
non-businessrelated discussions

I use rule in the loosest of ways. I think everyone who posts here can self 
police and it's not like we need a moderator to sift thru posts and finger wag 
people who are breaking "the rules". Politics tear people apart, doesn't seem 
to be any different here. 

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 12:22 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  I don’t like rules and I don’t want to be bothered with more filter strings 
in the subject, but a POL filter would be nice.   Or should that be [POL]?


  From: Ryan Ray 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 1:19 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP 
non-businessrelated discussions

  I've been a quiet member of this list for almost 10 years now and I like the 
OT stuff, except for the trump/politics. Would anyone be up for a hard and fast 
rule of no trump / politics talk? That seems to be where the majority of the 
garbage was from these last few weeks. 

  On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 12:16 PM, Jaime Solorza  
wrote:

I  am giving up Trump posts for LentI am thinking of showing up at 
Animal Farm Promise no weapons on my person ...Just have to move stuff 
around..

On Mar 1, 2017 12:44 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  And I do have to say thank you to Paul for keeping this thing alive.  
Without him it would have died.  

  From: Chuck McCown 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:37 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP 
non-businessrelated discussions

  I agree, it gets out of hand.  
  Sometimes I say something but most of the time I let the self policing 
nature of the list do what nature does.  

  For many of us, this list is as close to social media we want to go.  
  Many of us have been on here since it was part-15.  15 years or so.  

  Personally I don’t have any desire for the list to grow or shrink or 
change other than to remain a place where we can hang out.  This list is most 
certainly not a “safe place” and you will not see trigger warnings unless you 
see the occasional literal “trigger warning”.  It is kinda like a friendly bar 
that I can hang out in without my Mormon neighbors seeing me parked out front.  

  Once upon a time Doug Clark was a semi offical list daddy.  That lasted 
until Doug got pissed about something.  

  As always ALL opinions will be more-or-less welcomed.  



  From: Paul McCall 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:25 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business 
related discussions

  I shared this with Chuck McCown, and he suggested I share this with the 
list directly, so here goes.



  Just FYI, in my normal business conversations with WISPs,  I get one or 
two people a week tell me they no longer look at the list because of all the 
BS, politics, etc.  I also don’t use AFMUG nearly as much as I used to because 
of that.  



  While it costs me $$ for every email sent (I have never complained), AWS 
is very solid and reliable, so it was a great choice.  That’s not the point of 
my comment.



  People need to take that junk to some other venue, so we can focus on 
important technology and business needs, IMO.  



  It probably won’t change but it’s my 2 cents.



  Paul





  Paul McCall, President

  PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

  658 Old Dixie Highway

  Vero Beach, FL 32962

  772-564-6800  

  pa...@pdmnet.net

  www.pdmnet.com

  www.floridabroadband.com

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-businessrelated discussions

[Mathew Howard]

I concur. I don't think the occasional political discussion is a bad thing,
but it has certainly gotten a little out of hand at times, and I can see
how it could be driving some people away. Separating politics from the
general OT discussions would probably be a good idea.

Personally, I agree with others that have said the off topic discussions
are one of the best parts of this list. There are a lot of smart people
here and I like hearing their opinions on random topics.

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 2:22 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> I don’t like rules and I don’t want to be bothered with more filter
> strings in the subject, but a POL filter would be nice.   Or should that be
> [POL]?
>
>
> *From:* Ryan Ray
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 01, 2017 1:19 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP
> non-businessrelated discussions
>
> I've been a quiet member of this list for almost 10 years now and I like
> the OT stuff, except for the trump/politics. Would anyone be up for a hard
> and fast rule of no trump / politics talk? That seems to be where the
> majority of the garbage was from these last few weeks.
>
> On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 12:16 PM, Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> I  am giving up Trump posts for LentI am thinking of showing up at
>> Animal Farm Promise no weapons on my person ...Just have to move stuff
>> around..
>>
>> On Mar 1, 2017 12:44 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>
>> And I do have to say thank you to Paul for keeping this thing alive.
>> Without him it would have died.
>>
>> *From:* Chuck McCown
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:37 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP
>> non-businessrelated discussions
>>
>> I agree, it gets out of hand.
>> Sometimes I say something but most of the time I let the self policing
>> nature of the list do what nature does.
>>
>> For many of us, this list is as close to social media we want to go.
>> Many of us have been on here since it was part-15.  15 years or so.
>>
>> Personally I don’t have any desire for the list to grow or shrink or
>> change other than to remain a place where we can hang out.  This list is
>> most certainly not a “safe place” and you will not see trigger warnings
>> unless you see the occasional literal “trigger warning”.  It is kinda like
>> a friendly bar that I can hang out in without my Mormon neighbors seeing me
>> parked out front.
>>
>> Once upon a time Doug Clark was a semi offical list daddy.  That lasted
>> until Doug got pissed about something.
>>
>> As always ALL opinions will be more-or-less welcomed.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Paul McCall
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:25 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business
>> related discussions
>>
>>
>> I shared this with Chuck McCown, and he suggested I share this with the
>> list directly, so here goes.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Just FYI, in my normal business conversations with WISPs,  I get one or
>> two people a week tell me they no longer look at the list because of all
>> the BS, politics, etc.  I also don’t use AFMUG nearly as much as I used to
>> because of that.  *
>>
>>
>>
>> *While it costs me $$ for every email sent (I have never complained), AWS
>> is very solid and reliable, so it was a great choice.  That’s not the point
>> of my comment.*
>>
>>
>>
>> *People need to take that junk to some other venue, so we can focus on
>> important technology and business needs, IMO.  *
>>
>>
>>
>> *It probably won’t change but it’s my 2 cents.*
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul McCall, President
>>
>> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>>
>> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>>
>> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>>
>> 772-564-6800 <(772)%20564-6800>
>>
>> pa...@pdmnet.net
>>
>> www.pdmnet.com
>>
>> www.floridabroadband.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions

[Chuck McCown]

Eudora doesn’t have that button.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 1:25 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business 
related discussions

People really need to learn how to use the new e-mail button  or right 
click on the destination and click new mail.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "George Skorup" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2017 2:12:28 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business 
related discussions

Agreed, [OT] would be nice. Also, threaded mail clients like 
Thunderchicken can't tell the difference sometimes when someone clicks 
the reply button on an OT thread. They completely change the subject, 
but the headers are still there. So a non-OT topic will get buried in 
the OT thread. I frequently collapse entire threads and hit the delete 
button. So start a new message is all I'm saying.

On 3/1/2017 1:59 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
> On 3/1/17 11:37, Chuck McCown wrote:
>> Personally I don’t have any desire for the list to grow or shrink or
>> change other than to remain a place where we can hang out.  This list is
>> most certainly not a “safe place” and you will not see trigger warnings
>> unless you see the occasional literal “trigger warning”.  It is kinda
>> like a friendly bar that I can hang out in without my Mormon neighbors
>> seeing me parked out front.
>>
>
>
> If someone has a problem with the off topic stuff marked OT, then they 
> need to learn how to filter it out in their mail client, not get hurt 
> feelings than someone isn't protecting them with a safe place.
>
> The only change I would suggest is to always mark off topic as [OT] 
> which makes it stupid easy to create a subject filter looking for 
> string "[OT]" and not worry about the letters o and t in sequence get 
> caught in a normal word.
>
> The social aspect of this list is the best part. I've been on lists 
> that went out of control like the old SPAM-L, and AFMUG is not even 
> close to the extreme SPAM-L was when it died.
>
> ~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions

[Mike Hammett]

People really need to learn how to use the new e-mail button or right click 
on the destination and click new mail. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "George Skorup"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2017 2:12:28 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business 
related discussions 

Agreed, [OT] would be nice. Also, threaded mail clients like 
Thunderchicken can't tell the difference sometimes when someone clicks 
the reply button on an OT thread. They completely change the subject, 
but the headers are still there. So a non-OT topic will get buried in 
the OT thread. I frequently collapse entire threads and hit the delete 
button. So start a new message is all I'm saying. 

On 3/1/2017 1:59 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote: 
> On 3/1/17 11:37, Chuck McCown wrote: 
>> Personally I don’t have any desire for the list to grow or shrink or 
>> change other than to remain a place where we can hang out. This list is 
>> most certainly not a “safe place” and you will not see trigger warnings 
>> unless you see the occasional literal “trigger warning”. It is kinda 
>> like a friendly bar that I can hang out in without my Mormon neighbors 
>> seeing me parked out front. 
>> 
> 
> 
> If someone has a problem with the off topic stuff marked OT, then they 
> need to learn how to filter it out in their mail client, not get hurt 
> feelings than someone isn't protecting them with a safe place. 
> 
> The only change I would suggest is to always mark off topic as [OT] 
> which makes it stupid easy to create a subject filter looking for 
> string "[OT]" and not worry about the letters o and t in sequence get 
> caught in a normal word. 
> 
> The social aspect of this list is the best part. I've been on lists 
> that went out of control like the old SPAM-L, and AFMUG is not even 
> close to the extreme SPAM-L was when it died. 
> 
> ~Seth 

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-businessrelated discussions

[Ryan Ray]

I use rule in the loosest of ways. I think everyone who posts here can self
police and it's not like we need a moderator to sift thru posts and finger
wag people who are breaking "the rules". Politics tear people apart,
doesn't seem to be any different here.

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 12:22 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> I don’t like rules and I don’t want to be bothered with more filter
> strings in the subject, but a POL filter would be nice.   Or should that be
> [POL]?
>
>
> *From:* Ryan Ray
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 01, 2017 1:19 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP
> non-businessrelated discussions
>
> I've been a quiet member of this list for almost 10 years now and I like
> the OT stuff, except for the trump/politics. Would anyone be up for a hard
> and fast rule of no trump / politics talk? That seems to be where the
> majority of the garbage was from these last few weeks.
>
> On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 12:16 PM, Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> I  am giving up Trump posts for LentI am thinking of showing up at
>> Animal Farm Promise no weapons on my person ...Just have to move stuff
>> around..
>>
>> On Mar 1, 2017 12:44 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>
>> And I do have to say thank you to Paul for keeping this thing alive.
>> Without him it would have died.
>>
>> *From:* Chuck McCown
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:37 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP
>> non-businessrelated discussions
>>
>> I agree, it gets out of hand.
>> Sometimes I say something but most of the time I let the self policing
>> nature of the list do what nature does.
>>
>> For many of us, this list is as close to social media we want to go.
>> Many of us have been on here since it was part-15.  15 years or so.
>>
>> Personally I don’t have any desire for the list to grow or shrink or
>> change other than to remain a place where we can hang out.  This list is
>> most certainly not a “safe place” and you will not see trigger warnings
>> unless you see the occasional literal “trigger warning”.  It is kinda like
>> a friendly bar that I can hang out in without my Mormon neighbors seeing me
>> parked out front.
>>
>> Once upon a time Doug Clark was a semi offical list daddy.  That lasted
>> until Doug got pissed about something.
>>
>> As always ALL opinions will be more-or-less welcomed.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Paul McCall
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:25 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business
>> related discussions
>>
>>
>> I shared this with Chuck McCown, and he suggested I share this with the
>> list directly, so here goes.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Just FYI, in my normal business conversations with WISPs,  I get one or
>> two people a week tell me they no longer look at the list because of all
>> the BS, politics, etc.  I also don’t use AFMUG nearly as much as I used to
>> because of that.  *
>>
>>
>>
>> *While it costs me $$ for every email sent (I have never complained), AWS
>> is very solid and reliable, so it was a great choice.  That’s not the point
>> of my comment.*
>>
>>
>>
>> *People need to take that junk to some other venue, so we can focus on
>> important technology and business needs, IMO.  *
>>
>>
>>
>> *It probably won’t change but it’s my 2 cents.*
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul McCall, President
>>
>> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>>
>> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>>
>> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>>
>> 772-564-6800 <(772)%20564-6800>
>>
>> pa...@pdmnet.net
>>
>> www.pdmnet.com
>>
>> www.floridabroadband.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-businessrelated discussions

[Chuck McCown]

I don’t like rules and I don’t want to be bothered with more filter strings in 
the subject, but a POL filter would be nice.   Or should that be [POL]?


From: Ryan Ray 
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 1:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP 
non-businessrelated discussions

I've been a quiet member of this list for almost 10 years now and I like the OT 
stuff, except for the trump/politics. Would anyone be up for a hard and fast 
rule of no trump / politics talk? That seems to be where the majority of the 
garbage was from these last few weeks. 

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 12:16 PM, Jaime Solorza  
wrote:

  I  am giving up Trump posts for LentI am thinking of showing up at Animal 
Farm Promise no weapons on my person ...Just have to move stuff around..

  On Mar 1, 2017 12:44 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

And I do have to say thank you to Paul for keeping this thing alive.  
Without him it would have died.  

From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:37 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP 
non-businessrelated discussions

I agree, it gets out of hand.  
Sometimes I say something but most of the time I let the self policing 
nature of the list do what nature does.  

For many of us, this list is as close to social media we want to go.  
Many of us have been on here since it was part-15.  15 years or so.  

Personally I don’t have any desire for the list to grow or shrink or change 
other than to remain a place where we can hang out.  This list is most 
certainly not a “safe place” and you will not see trigger warnings unless you 
see the occasional literal “trigger warning”.  It is kinda like a friendly bar 
that I can hang out in without my Mormon neighbors seeing me parked out front.  

Once upon a time Doug Clark was a semi offical list daddy.  That lasted 
until Doug got pissed about something.  

As always ALL opinions will be more-or-less welcomed.  



From: Paul McCall 
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:25 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business 
related discussions

I shared this with Chuck McCown, and he suggested I share this with the 
list directly, so here goes.



Just FYI, in my normal business conversations with WISPs,  I get one or two 
people a week tell me they no longer look at the list because of all the BS, 
politics, etc.  I also don’t use AFMUG nearly as much as I used to because of 
that.  



While it costs me $$ for every email sent (I have never complained), AWS is 
very solid and reliable, so it was a great choice.  That’s not the point of my 
comment.



People need to take that junk to some other venue, so we can focus on 
important technology and business needs, IMO.  



It probably won’t change but it’s my 2 cents.



Paul





Paul McCall, President

PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800  

pa...@pdmnet.net

www.pdmnet.com

www.floridabroadband.com

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-businessrelated discussions

[Ryan Ray]

Also I'm super open to throwing money at Paul for the list if he wants.
There's lots of valuable info and people here.

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 12:19 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:

> I've been a quiet member of this list for almost 10 years now and I like
> the OT stuff, except for the trump/politics. Would anyone be up for a hard
> and fast rule of no trump / politics talk? That seems to be where the
> majority of the garbage was from these last few weeks.
>
> On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 12:16 PM, Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> I  am giving up Trump posts for LentI am thinking of showing up at
>> Animal Farm Promise no weapons on my person ...Just have to move stuff
>> around..
>>
>> On Mar 1, 2017 12:44 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>
>> And I do have to say thank you to Paul for keeping this thing alive.
>> Without him it would have died.
>>
>> *From:* Chuck McCown
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:37 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP
>> non-businessrelated discussions
>>
>> I agree, it gets out of hand.
>> Sometimes I say something but most of the time I let the self policing
>> nature of the list do what nature does.
>>
>> For many of us, this list is as close to social media we want to go.
>> Many of us have been on here since it was part-15.  15 years or so.
>>
>> Personally I don’t have any desire for the list to grow or shrink or
>> change other than to remain a place where we can hang out.  This list is
>> most certainly not a “safe place” and you will not see trigger warnings
>> unless you see the occasional literal “trigger warning”.  It is kinda like
>> a friendly bar that I can hang out in without my Mormon neighbors seeing me
>> parked out front.
>>
>> Once upon a time Doug Clark was a semi offical list daddy.  That lasted
>> until Doug got pissed about something.
>>
>> As always ALL opinions will be more-or-less welcomed.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Paul McCall
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:25 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business
>> related discussions
>>
>>
>> I shared this with Chuck McCown, and he suggested I share this with the
>> list directly, so here goes.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Just FYI, in my normal business conversations with WISPs,  I get one or
>> two people a week tell me they no longer look at the list because of all
>> the BS, politics, etc.  I also don’t use AFMUG nearly as much as I used to
>> because of that.  *
>>
>>
>>
>> *While it costs me $$ for every email sent (I have never complained), AWS
>> is very solid and reliable, so it was a great choice.  That’s not the point
>> of my comment.*
>>
>>
>>
>> *People need to take that junk to some other venue, so we can focus on
>> important technology and business needs, IMO.  *
>>
>>
>>
>> *It probably won’t change but it’s my 2 cents.*
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul McCall, President
>>
>> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>>
>> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>>
>> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>>
>> 772-564-6800 <(772)%20564-6800>
>>
>> pa...@pdmnet.net
>>
>> www.pdmnet.com
>>
>> www.floridabroadband.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-businessrelated discussions

[Ryan Ray]

I've been a quiet member of this list for almost 10 years now and I like
the OT stuff, except for the trump/politics. Would anyone be up for a hard
and fast rule of no trump / politics talk? That seems to be where the
majority of the garbage was from these last few weeks.

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 12:16 PM, Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> I  am giving up Trump posts for LentI am thinking of showing up at
> Animal Farm Promise no weapons on my person ...Just have to move stuff
> around..
>
> On Mar 1, 2017 12:44 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
> And I do have to say thank you to Paul for keeping this thing alive.
> Without him it would have died.
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:37 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP
> non-businessrelated discussions
>
> I agree, it gets out of hand.
> Sometimes I say something but most of the time I let the self policing
> nature of the list do what nature does.
>
> For many of us, this list is as close to social media we want to go.
> Many of us have been on here since it was part-15.  15 years or so.
>
> Personally I don’t have any desire for the list to grow or shrink or
> change other than to remain a place where we can hang out.  This list is
> most certainly not a “safe place” and you will not see trigger warnings
> unless you see the occasional literal “trigger warning”.  It is kinda like
> a friendly bar that I can hang out in without my Mormon neighbors seeing me
> parked out front.
>
> Once upon a time Doug Clark was a semi offical list daddy.  That lasted
> until Doug got pissed about something.
>
> As always ALL opinions will be more-or-less welcomed.
>
>
>
> *From:* Paul McCall
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:25 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business
> related discussions
>
>
> I shared this with Chuck McCown, and he suggested I share this with the
> list directly, so here goes.
>
>
>
> *Just FYI, in my normal business conversations with WISPs,  I get one or
> two people a week tell me they no longer look at the list because of all
> the BS, politics, etc.  I also don’t use AFMUG nearly as much as I used to
> because of that.  *
>
>
>
> *While it costs me $$ for every email sent (I have never complained), AWS
> is very solid and reliable, so it was a great choice.  That’s not the point
> of my comment.*
>
>
>
> *People need to take that junk to some other venue, so we can focus on
> important technology and business needs, IMO.  *
>
>
>
> *It probably won’t change but it’s my 2 cents.*
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
> Paul McCall, President
>
> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>
> 772-564-6800 <(772)%20564-6800>
>
> pa...@pdmnet.net
>
> www.pdmnet.com
>
> www.floridabroadband.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-businessrelated discussions

[Chuck McCown]

Let us all give thanks...

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 1:16 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP 
non-businessrelated discussions

I  am giving up Trump posts for LentI am thinking of showing up at Animal 
Farm Promise no weapons on my person ...Just have to move stuff around..

On Mar 1, 2017 12:44 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  And I do have to say thank you to Paul for keeping this thing alive.  Without 
him it would have died.  

  From: Chuck McCown 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:37 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP 
non-businessrelated discussions

  I agree, it gets out of hand.  
  Sometimes I say something but most of the time I let the self policing nature 
of the list do what nature does.  

  For many of us, this list is as close to social media we want to go.  
  Many of us have been on here since it was part-15.  15 years or so.  

  Personally I don’t have any desire for the list to grow or shrink or change 
other than to remain a place where we can hang out.  This list is most 
certainly not a “safe place” and you will not see trigger warnings unless you 
see the occasional literal “trigger warning”.  It is kinda like a friendly bar 
that I can hang out in without my Mormon neighbors seeing me parked out front.  

  Once upon a time Doug Clark was a semi offical list daddy.  That lasted until 
Doug got pissed about something.  

  As always ALL opinions will be more-or-less welcomed.  



  From: Paul McCall 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:25 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related 
discussions

  I shared this with Chuck McCown, and he suggested I share this with the list 
directly, so here goes.



  Just FYI, in my normal business conversations with WISPs,  I get one or two 
people a week tell me they no longer look at the list because of all the BS, 
politics, etc.  I also don’t use AFMUG nearly as much as I used to because of 
that.  



  While it costs me $$ for every email sent (I have never complained), AWS is 
very solid and reliable, so it was a great choice.  That’s not the point of my 
comment.



  People need to take that junk to some other venue, so we can focus on 
important technology and business needs, IMO.  



  It probably won’t change but it’s my 2 cents.



  Paul





  Paul McCall, President

  PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

  658 Old Dixie Highway

  Vero Beach, FL 32962

  772-564-6800  

  pa...@pdmnet.net

  www.pdmnet.com

  www.floridabroadband.com

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions

[Paul McCall]

Maybe defining a little better what OT:?



I use filters all the time.  OT: originally meant (to me)... relevant 
discussions to the business but not necessarily technology.   What someone 
discusses emerging battery technology, or 401Ks for employees, or insurance, 
etc. etc., it used to be THAT was OT:



Sooo…. Maybe BS: or PRS:  Political, Religious or Social ?Unless you 
“identify” your PRS content as just OT:  (sorry, couldn’t resist the 
trans-gender “identify” phrase) –  see, I have a sense of humor like the next 
guy.



It’s just become like there is just no limit, and if people (not just me) are 
going away from looking at the list, we have lost a LOT of good input from 
folks who are serious about their business, who don’t have time to delete 
threads.



Maybe, I just need more coffee ☺



Paul







-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2017 3:00 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business 
related discussions



On 3/1/17 11:37, Chuck McCown wrote:

> Personally I don’t have any desire for the list to grow or shrink or

> change other than to remain a place where we can hang out.  This list

> is most certainly not a “safe place” and you will not see trigger

> warnings unless you see the occasional literal “trigger warning”.  It

> is kinda like a friendly bar that I can hang out in without my Mormon

> neighbors seeing me parked out front.

>





If someone has a problem with the off topic stuff marked OT, then they need to 
learn how to filter it out in their mail client, not get hurt feelings than 
someone isn't protecting them with a safe place.



The only change I would suggest is to always mark off topic as [OT] which makes 
it stupid easy to create a subject filter looking for string "[OT]" and not 
worry about the letters o and t in sequence get caught in a normal word.



The social aspect of this list is the best part. I've been on lists that went 
out of control like the old SPAM-L, and AFMUG is not even close to the extreme 
SPAM-L was when it died.



~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-businessrelated discussions

[Jaime Solorza]

I  am giving up Trump posts for LentI am thinking of showing up at
Animal Farm Promise no weapons on my person ...Just have to move stuff
around..

On Mar 1, 2017 12:44 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

And I do have to say thank you to Paul for keeping this thing alive.
Without him it would have died.

*From:* Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:37 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP
non-businessrelated discussions

I agree, it gets out of hand.
Sometimes I say something but most of the time I let the self policing
nature of the list do what nature does.

For many of us, this list is as close to social media we want to go.
Many of us have been on here since it was part-15.  15 years or so.

Personally I don’t have any desire for the list to grow or shrink or change
other than to remain a place where we can hang out.  This list is most
certainly not a “safe place” and you will not see trigger warnings unless
you see the occasional literal “trigger warning”.  It is kinda like a
friendly bar that I can hang out in without my Mormon neighbors seeing me
parked out front.

Once upon a time Doug Clark was a semi offical list daddy.  That lasted
until Doug got pissed about something.

As always ALL opinions will be more-or-less welcomed.



*From:* Paul McCall
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:25 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business
related discussions


I shared this with Chuck McCown, and he suggested I share this with the
list directly, so here goes.



*Just FYI, in my normal business conversations with WISPs,  I get one or
two people a week tell me they no longer look at the list because of all
the BS, politics, etc.  I also don’t use AFMUG nearly as much as I used to
because of that.  *



*While it costs me $$ for every email sent (I have never complained), AWS
is very solid and reliable, so it was a great choice.  That’s not the point
of my comment.*



*People need to take that junk to some other venue, so we can focus on
important technology and business needs, IMO.  *



*It probably won’t change but it’s my 2 cents.*



Paul





Paul McCall, President

PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800 <(772)%20564-6800>

pa...@pdmnet.net

www.pdmnet.com

www.floridabroadband.com

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions

[Bill Prince]

I agree. The list keeps me out of the bar. I know it's too far to drive anyway, 
but it's my excuse. I would be happy to through in something to avoid draining 
Paul's bank account. There are plenty of us. Couldn't be more than $100/month 
each.
bp 

On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 12:09 PM, Josh Luthman 
 wrote:
 

 I can two click delete emails from this list, last few weeks have been utter 
garbage for sure.
What's the monthly cost of the list?  I think those of us that have benefited 
from it could throw a few bucks to help you out.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 2:25 PM, Paul McCall  wrote:

I shared this with Chuck McCown, and he suggested I share this with the list 
directly, so here goes. Just FYI, in my normal business conversations with 
WISPs,  I get one or two people a week tell me they no longer look at the list 
because of all the BS, politics, etc.  I also don’t use AFMUG nearly as much as 
I used to because of that.   While it costs me $$ for every email sent (I have 
never complained), AWS is very solid and reliable, so it was a great choice.  
That’s not the point of my comment. People need to take that junk to some other 
venue, so we can focus on important technology and business needs, IMO.  It 
probably won’t change but it’s my 2 cents. Paul  Paul McCall, PresidentPDMNet, 
Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.658 Old Dixie HighwayVero Beach, FL 
32962772-564-6800  pa...@pdmnet.netwww.pdmnet.comwww.floridabroadband.com  



   

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions

[George Skorup]

Agreed, [OT] would be nice. Also, threaded mail clients like 
Thunderchicken can't tell the difference sometimes when someone clicks 
the reply button on an OT thread. They completely change the subject, 
but the headers are still there. So a non-OT topic will get buried in 
the OT thread. I frequently collapse entire threads and hit the delete 
button. So start a new message is all I'm saying.


On 3/1/2017 1:59 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote:

On 3/1/17 11:37, Chuck McCown wrote:

Personally I don’t have any desire for the list to grow or shrink or
change other than to remain a place where we can hang out.  This list is
most certainly not a “safe place” and you will not see trigger warnings
unless you see the occasional literal “trigger warning”.  It is kinda
like a friendly bar that I can hang out in without my Mormon neighbors
seeing me parked out front.




If someone has a problem with the off topic stuff marked OT, then they 
need to learn how to filter it out in their mail client, not get hurt 
feelings than someone isn't protecting them with a safe place.


The only change I would suggest is to always mark off topic as [OT] 
which makes it stupid easy to create a subject filter looking for 
string "[OT]" and not worry about the letters o and t in sequence get 
caught in a normal word.


The social aspect of this list is the best part. I've been on lists 
that went out of control like the old SPAM-L, and AFMUG is not even 
close to the extreme SPAM-L was when it died.


~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] In Home Wireless Extension

[Bill Prince]

I've never been a fan of wireless mesh anything. Too many "invisible" parts. I 
would lean toward Sterlings original idea; a separate WAP on each floor; 
interconnected via ethernet. You might test it with powerline adapters. If 
those work; continue. Maybe keep them permanently.
 

On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 12:01 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
 

 I should mention, I have a three level house too.  Routers are on the middle 
floor.  About as central to the whole house as possible.
I wonder if concrete has more attenuation than my subfloor?

-Original Message- 
From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] In Home Wireless Extension

I have a product called "warm board" as sub flooring.  It is 7/8" thick
plywood with aluminum sheeting bonded to one side.  It has channels for my
radiant heating system.  It is also a very good RF shield.

My Calix 844E is usable throughout the whole house, but it has some weak
areas.
I am trying a router from IgniteNet that Harold sent me.  I thought it was
not as good, but after downloading an app that will give me wifi signals in
dBm, it is showing 2-3 dB hotter than the Calix in the areas I have tested.

So far, I am sticking with one AP for the whole house.

-Original Message- 
From: Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:52 PM
To: 'af@afmug.com'
Subject: [AFMUG] In Home Wireless Extension

I have a customer with a "trendy" home that has concrete floors, three
floors.

One AP isn't doing very well to reach the entire house.

They use Apple, so I'm thinking buying a bunch of refurbished Airport
Extreme units and plugging them in on each floor via Ethernet.

I know it's not mesh, but I don't think Mesh is going to work at all through
concrete.

I see this as the best option for them.

Any other opinions?




   

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions

[Josh Luthman]

I can two click delete emails from this list, last few weeks have been
utter garbage for sure.

What's the monthly cost of the list?  I think those of us that have
benefited from it could throw a few bucks to help you out.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 2:25 PM, Paul McCall  wrote:

> I shared this with Chuck McCown, and he suggested I share this with the
> list directly, so here goes.
>
>
>
> *Just FYI, in my normal business conversations with WISPs,  I get one or
> two people a week tell me they no longer look at the list because of all
> the BS, politics, etc.  I also don’t use AFMUG nearly as much as I used to
> because of that.  *
>
>
>
> *While it costs me $$ for every email sent (I have never complained), AWS
> is very solid and reliable, so it was a great choice.  That’s not the point
> of my comment.*
>
>
>
> *People need to take that junk to some other venue, so we can focus on
> important technology and business needs, IMO.  *
>
>
>
> *It probably won’t change but it’s my 2 cents.*
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
> Paul McCall, President
>
> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>
> 772-564-6800 <(772)%20564-6800>
>
> pa...@pdmnet.net
>
> www.pdmnet.com
>
> www.floridabroadband.com
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] In Home Wireless Extension

[Chuck McCown]

I should mention, I have a three level house too.  Routers are on the middle 
floor.  About as central to the whole house as possible.

I wonder if concrete has more attenuation than my subfloor?

-Original Message- 
From: Chuck McCown

Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] In Home Wireless Extension

I have a product called "warm board" as sub flooring.  It is 7/8" thick
plywood with aluminum sheeting bonded to one side.  It has channels for my
radiant heating system.  It is also a very good RF shield.

My Calix 844E is usable throughout the whole house, but it has some weak
areas.
I am trying a router from IgniteNet that Harold sent me.  I thought it was
not as good, but after downloading an app that will give me wifi signals in
dBm, it is showing 2-3 dB hotter than the Calix in the areas I have tested.

So far, I am sticking with one AP for the whole house.

-Original Message- 
From: Sterling Jacobson

Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:52 PM
To: 'af@afmug.com'
Subject: [AFMUG] In Home Wireless Extension

I have a customer with a "trendy" home that has concrete floors, three
floors.

One AP isn't doing very well to reach the entire house.

They use Apple, so I'm thinking buying a bunch of refurbished Airport
Extreme units and plugging them in on each floor via Ethernet.

I know it's not mesh, but I don't think Mesh is going to work at all through
concrete.

I see this as the best option for them.

Any other opinions?

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions

[Seth Mattinen]

On 3/1/17 11:37, Chuck McCown wrote:

Personally I don’t have any desire for the list to grow or shrink or
change other than to remain a place where we can hang out.  This list is
most certainly not a “safe place” and you will not see trigger warnings
unless you see the occasional literal “trigger warning”.  It is kinda
like a friendly bar that I can hang out in without my Mormon neighbors
seeing me parked out front.




If someone has a problem with the off topic stuff marked OT, then they 
need to learn how to filter it out in their mail client, not get hurt 
feelings than someone isn't protecting them with a safe place.


The only change I would suggest is to always mark off topic as [OT] 
which makes it stupid easy to create a subject filter looking for string 
"[OT]" and not worry about the letters o and t in sequence get caught in 
a normal word.


The social aspect of this list is the best part. I've been on lists that 
went out of control like the old SPAM-L, and AFMUG is not even close to 
the extreme SPAM-L was when it died.


~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] In Home Wireless Extension

[Chuck McCown]

I have a product called "warm board" as sub flooring.  It is 7/8" thick 
plywood with aluminum sheeting bonded to one side.  It has channels for my 
radiant heating system.  It is also a very good RF shield.


My Calix 844E is usable throughout the whole house, but it has some weak 
areas.
I am trying a router from IgniteNet that Harold sent me.  I thought it was 
not as good, but after downloading an app that will give me wifi signals in 
dBm, it is showing 2-3 dB hotter than the Calix in the areas I have tested.


So far, I am sticking with one AP for the whole house.

-Original Message- 
From: Sterling Jacobson

Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:52 PM
To: 'af@afmug.com'
Subject: [AFMUG] In Home Wireless Extension

I have a customer with a "trendy" home that has concrete floors, three 
floors.


One AP isn't doing very well to reach the entire house.

They use Apple, so I'm thinking buying a bunch of refurbished Airport 
Extreme units and plugging them in on each floor via Ethernet.


I know it's not mesh, but I don't think Mesh is going to work at all through 
concrete.


I see this as the best option for them.

Any other opinions?

[AFMUG] In Home Wireless Extension

[Sterling Jacobson]

I have a customer with a "trendy" home that has concrete floors, three floors.

One AP isn't doing very well to reach the entire house.

They use Apple, so I'm thinking buying a bunch of refurbished Airport Extreme 
units and plugging them in on each floor via Ethernet.

I know it's not mesh, but I don't think Mesh is going to work at all through 
concrete.

I see this as the best option for them.

Any other opinions?

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-businessrelated discussions

[Chuck McCown]

I always find it restores some of my faith in humanity when a few people get 
into a hammer and tongs death match but are back the next day sharing recipes.  

From: Jason McKemie 
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:47 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP 
non-businessrelated discussions

Agreed, I do appreciate Paul keeping this thing going. 

I do have to say, however, that the OT discussions are one of my favorite 
things about this list.  If people want to stay on topic they could either 
filter the emails or just use the WISPA list.

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 1:44 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  And I do have to say thank you to Paul for keeping this thing alive.  Without 
him it would have died.  

  From: Chuck McCown 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:37 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP 
non-businessrelated discussions

  I agree, it gets out of hand.  
  Sometimes I say something but most of the time I let the self policing nature 
of the list do what nature does.  

  For many of us, this list is as close to social media we want to go.  
  Many of us have been on here since it was part-15.  15 years or so.  

  Personally I don’t have any desire for the list to grow or shrink or change 
other than to remain a place where we can hang out.  This list is most 
certainly not a “safe place” and you will not see trigger warnings unless you 
see the occasional literal “trigger warning”.  It is kinda like a friendly bar 
that I can hang out in without my Mormon neighbors seeing me parked out front.  

  Once upon a time Doug Clark was a semi offical list daddy.  That lasted until 
Doug got pissed about something.  

  As always ALL opinions will be more-or-less welcomed.  



  From: Paul McCall 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:25 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related 
discussions

  I shared this with Chuck McCown, and he suggested I share this with the list 
directly, so here goes.



  Just FYI, in my normal business conversations with WISPs,  I get one or two 
people a week tell me they no longer look at the list because of all the BS, 
politics, etc.  I also don’t use AFMUG nearly as much as I used to because of 
that.  



  While it costs me $$ for every email sent (I have never complained), AWS is 
very solid and reliable, so it was a great choice.  That’s not the point of my 
comment.



  People need to take that junk to some other venue, so we can focus on 
important technology and business needs, IMO.  



  It probably won’t change but it’s my 2 cents.



  Paul





  Paul McCall, President

  PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

  658 Old Dixie Highway

  Vero Beach, FL 32962

  772-564-6800  

  pa...@pdmnet.net

  www.pdmnet.com

  www.floridabroadband.com

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-businessrelated discussions

[Jason McKemie]

Agreed, I do appreciate Paul keeping this thing going.

I do have to say, however, that the OT discussions are one of my favorite
things about this list.  If people want to stay on topic they could either
filter the emails or just use the WISPA list.

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 1:44 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> And I do have to say thank you to Paul for keeping this thing alive.
> Without him it would have died.
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:37 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP
> non-businessrelated discussions
>
> I agree, it gets out of hand.
> Sometimes I say something but most of the time I let the self policing
> nature of the list do what nature does.
>
> For many of us, this list is as close to social media we want to go.
> Many of us have been on here since it was part-15.  15 years or so.
>
> Personally I don’t have any desire for the list to grow or shrink or
> change other than to remain a place where we can hang out.  This list is
> most certainly not a “safe place” and you will not see trigger warnings
> unless you see the occasional literal “trigger warning”.  It is kinda like
> a friendly bar that I can hang out in without my Mormon neighbors seeing me
> parked out front.
>
> Once upon a time Doug Clark was a semi offical list daddy.  That lasted
> until Doug got pissed about something.
>
> As always ALL opinions will be more-or-less welcomed.
>
>
>
> *From:* Paul McCall
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:25 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business
> related discussions
>
>
> I shared this with Chuck McCown, and he suggested I share this with the
> list directly, so here goes.
>
>
>
> *Just FYI, in my normal business conversations with WISPs,  I get one or
> two people a week tell me they no longer look at the list because of all
> the BS, politics, etc.  I also don’t use AFMUG nearly as much as I used to
> because of that.  *
>
>
>
> *While it costs me $$ for every email sent (I have never complained), AWS
> is very solid and reliable, so it was a great choice.  That’s not the point
> of my comment.*
>
>
>
> *People need to take that junk to some other venue, so we can focus on
> important technology and business needs, IMO.  *
>
>
>
> *It probably won’t change but it’s my 2 cents.*
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
> Paul McCall, President
>
> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>
> 772-564-6800 <(772)%20564-6800>
>
> pa...@pdmnet.net
>
> www.pdmnet.com
>
> www.floridabroadband.com
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions

[Bill Prince]

Go for it guys. That's what I thought the "OT:" prefix is for. If it's too 
much, or eating your time, filter the "OT:" stuff to begin with. Then when you 
want to pop a brewsky and yuck it up, go to your OT: folder to see what's up.
-bp 

On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 11:37 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
 

  I agree, 
it gets out of hand.  Sometimes I say something but most of the time I let the 
self policing nature of the list do what nature does.   For many of us, this 
list is as close to social media we want to go.  Many of us have been on here 
since it was part-15.  15 years or so.   Personally I don’t have any desire for 
the list to grow or shrink or change other than to remain a place where we can 
hang out.  This list is most certainly not a “safe place” and you will not see 
trigger warnings unless you see the occasional literal “trigger warning”.  It 
is kinda like a friendly bar that I can hang out in without my Mormon neighbors 
seeing me parked out front.   Once upon a time Doug Clark was a semi offical 
list daddy.  That lasted until Doug got pissed about something.   As always ALL 
opinions will be more-or-less welcomed.     From: Paul McCall Sent: Wednesday, 
March 01, 2017 12:25 PMTo: af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] List topics and 
verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions I shared this with 
Chuck McCown, and he suggested I share this with the list directly, so here 
goes.   Just FYI, in my normal business conversations with WISPs,  I get one or 
two people a week tell me they no longer look at the list because of all the 
BS, politics, etc.  I also don’t use AFMUG nearly as much as I used to because 
of that.     While it costs me $$ for every email sent (I have never 
complained), AWS is very solid and reliable, so it was a great choice.  That’s 
not the point of my comment.   People need to take that junk to some other 
venue, so we can focus on important technology and business needs, IMO.     It 
probably won’t change but it’s my 2 cents.   Paul     Paul McCall, President 
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc. 658 Old Dixie Highway Vero Beach, FL 
32962 772-564-6800   pa...@pdmnet.net www.pdmnet.com www.floridabroadband.com   
  

   

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-businessrelated discussions

[Chuck McCown]

And I do have to say thank you to Paul for keeping this thing alive.  Without 
him it would have died.  

From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:37 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP 
non-businessrelated discussions

I agree, it gets out of hand.  
Sometimes I say something but most of the time I let the self policing nature 
of the list do what nature does.  

For many of us, this list is as close to social media we want to go.  
Many of us have been on here since it was part-15.  15 years or so.  

Personally I don’t have any desire for the list to grow or shrink or change 
other than to remain a place where we can hang out.  This list is most 
certainly not a “safe place” and you will not see trigger warnings unless you 
see the occasional literal “trigger warning”.  It is kinda like a friendly bar 
that I can hang out in without my Mormon neighbors seeing me parked out front.  

Once upon a time Doug Clark was a semi offical list daddy.  That lasted until 
Doug got pissed about something.  

As always ALL opinions will be more-or-less welcomed.  



From: Paul McCall 
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:25 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related 
discussions

I shared this with Chuck McCown, and he suggested I share this with the list 
directly, so here goes.

 

Just FYI, in my normal business conversations with WISPs,  I get one or two 
people a week tell me they no longer look at the list because of all the BS, 
politics, etc.  I also don’t use AFMUG nearly as much as I used to because of 
that.  

 

While it costs me $$ for every email sent (I have never complained), AWS is 
very solid and reliable, so it was a great choice.  That’s not the point of my 
comment.

 

People need to take that junk to some other venue, so we can focus on important 
technology and business needs, IMO.  

 

It probably won’t change but it’s my 2 cents.

 

Paul

 

 

Paul McCall, President

PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800  

pa...@pdmnet.net

www.pdmnet.com

www.floridabroadband.com

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions

[Chuck McCown]

I agree, it gets out of hand.  
Sometimes I say something but most of the time I let the self policing nature 
of the list do what nature does.  

For many of us, this list is as close to social media we want to go.  
Many of us have been on here since it was part-15.  15 years or so.  

Personally I don’t have any desire for the list to grow or shrink or change 
other than to remain a place where we can hang out.  This list is most 
certainly not a “safe place” and you will not see trigger warnings unless you 
see the occasional literal “trigger warning”.  It is kinda like a friendly bar 
that I can hang out in without my Mormon neighbors seeing me parked out front.  

Once upon a time Doug Clark was a semi offical list daddy.  That lasted until 
Doug got pissed about something.  

As always ALL opinions will be more-or-less welcomed.  



From: Paul McCall 
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:25 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related 
discussions

I shared this with Chuck McCown, and he suggested I share this with the list 
directly, so here goes.

 

Just FYI, in my normal business conversations with WISPs,  I get one or two 
people a week tell me they no longer look at the list because of all the BS, 
politics, etc.  I also don’t use AFMUG nearly as much as I used to because of 
that.  

 

While it costs me $$ for every email sent (I have never complained), AWS is 
very solid and reliable, so it was a great choice.  That’s not the point of my 
comment.

 

People need to take that junk to some other venue, so we can focus on important 
technology and business needs, IMO.  

 

It probably won’t change but it’s my 2 cents.

 

Paul

 

 

Paul McCall, President

PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800  

pa...@pdmnet.net

www.pdmnet.com

www.floridabroadband.com

 

 

[AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions

[Paul McCall]

I shared this with Chuck McCown, and he suggested I share this with the list 
directly, so here goes.

Just FYI, in my normal business conversations with WISPs,  I get one or two 
people a week tell me they no longer look at the list because of all the BS, 
politics, etc.  I also don't use AFMUG nearly as much as I used to because of 
that.

While it costs me $$ for every email sent (I have never complained), AWS is 
very solid and reliable, so it was a great choice.  That's not the point of my 
comment.

People need to take that junk to some other venue, so we can focus on important 
technology and business needs, IMO.

It probably won't change but it's my 2 cents.

Paul


Paul McCall, President
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800
pa...@pdmnet.net
www.pdmnet.com
www.floridabroadband.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT. New low ...Trump appears to blame generals for SEAL's death in Yemen raid

[Josh Reynolds]

Lol Lewis :)

On Mar 1, 2017 12:30 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:

> Yea damnit
>
> On Wed, Mar 1, 2017, 10:43 AM Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>
>> Marines want to be called Marines. They earned that right.
>>
>> Soldiers want to be called Soldiers. They also earned that right.
>>
>> I'm no paint huffing crayon-eater! ;)
>>
>> On Mar 1, 2017 9:40 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>
>> Phew, lots of deleting.  Have we passed this turd finally?
>>
>> Deep cleansing breath, in through the nose, slow out through pursed
>> lips.
>> Repeat, repeat, om
>>
>> I have wonder why Marines always want to be called Warriors when all the
>> other soldiers and sailors are OK with their titles?  My son in law is a
>> Marine.  He put on a uniform and shot bullets at enemies, same as the army
>> guys.
>>
>>
>> *From:* Josh Reynolds
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 28, 2017 6:21 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT. New low ...Trump appears to blame generals
>> for SEAL's death in Yemen raid
>>
>> There is a very large group of veterans who are fucking pissed that our
>> commander in chief said that we don't fight to win. Mattis is also pissed
>> his new boss called him a soldier. I love my retarted marine brothers and
>> sisters, and we take offense whenever some civvy doesn't know the
>> difference.
>>
>> That aside, with this raid being as botched as it was there were some
>> critical failures in both intelligence and decision making at the highest
>> level. Those units don't act unless they have very very very recent
>> (sometimes to the minute) info unless told otherwise. Several things went
>> wrong, no doubt, and some of that squarely falls on Trump. I don't care if
>> he's your guy or if he's not, I don't give a damn. The go call in this
>> instance was the wrong one.
>>
>> On Feb 28, 2017 7:10 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" <
>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I never said all, I said all I know, limited to probably around fifty,
>> only one is lt colonel in airforce reserves so no high ranking, and only
>> two special forces limited to Rangers, the rest all being regular
>> personnel, so not a great representation of the WHOLE military, but given
>> the mindset amongst them I'd venture a guess without much apprehension that
>> they are a pretty good representation of the military overall.
>>
>>
>> On Feb 28, 2017 7:02 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
>> wrote:
>>
>> You think all military active and veterans like Trump?  WowTrump was
>> right about one thing.. he could kill someone in Times Square, and you'd
>> say it okayI don't get it ...My critical mind is trying to understand
>> this blind faith in him... Almost like Jim Jones...Damn
>>
>> On Feb 28, 2017 5:49 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" <
>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Can't go with that when it came to our capabilities and mission
>> objectives the last guy was mouth in chief. This admin didn't want any
>> military plans made public ever.
>> I'd like to think at the end of the day this was just a mission that
>> turned shitshow fast on its own. It is an insult to call it poor planning
>> considering that's saying the mission training over the last 3 months
>> wasn't taken seriously by the SEAL team.
>> I personally wouldn't be at all suprised if the community organizer in
>> chief had his minions leak the details. Or one of his antifa terrorist
>> friends still embedded in the administration did so. All to do what was
>> done, discredit the current administration. Every currently serving and
>> veteran military personnel I know, with hehe exception of Josh here,
>> supports trump and understands what went down in this mission was what it
>> was and wants the same as I do from the people responsible if there was a
>> leak.
>> Even their lost  brother in arms brother is a seal and hasn't said
>> anything negative (though that may be a limitation of his status)
>>
>>
>> On Feb 28, 2017 6:35 PM, "Bill Prince"  wrote:
>>
>> Might be simpler than that. Could just be a few idiots in the new admin
>> that don't know how to keep their traps shut. His Orangeness doesn't seem
>> to connect the dots very well himself. He thought the conversations that
>> Flynn was having with the Russians were a good thing.
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 4:25 PM, Chuck McCown 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Who benefits from the leak?
>>
>>1. ISIS
>>2. Enemies of Trump/GOP/USA
>>
>> ISIS probably did not leak to themselves.
>>
>> So what does that leave us with?
>>
>> Apply Occam's razor.
>>
>> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 28, 2017 4:47 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT. New low ...Trump appears to blame generals
>> for SEAL's death in Yemen raid
>>
>> Exactly, thats why the dad didnt need to request an investigation, it is
>> being investigated
>>
>> He should have not 

Re: [AFMUG] OT. New low ...Trump appears to blame generals for SEAL's death in Yemen raid

[Lewis Bergman]

Yea damnit

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017, 10:43 AM Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> Marines want to be called Marines. They earned that right.
>
> Soldiers want to be called Soldiers. They also earned that right.
>
> I'm no paint huffing crayon-eater! ;)
>
> On Mar 1, 2017 9:40 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
> Phew, lots of deleting.  Have we passed this turd finally?
>
> Deep cleansing breath, in through the nose, slow out through pursed lips.
> Repeat, repeat, om
>
> I have wonder why Marines always want to be called Warriors when all the
> other soldiers and sailors are OK with their titles?  My son in law is a
> Marine.  He put on a uniform and shot bullets at enemies, same as the army
> guys.
>
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 28, 2017 6:21 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT. New low ...Trump appears to blame generals for
> SEAL's death in Yemen raid
>
> There is a very large group of veterans who are fucking pissed that our
> commander in chief said that we don't fight to win. Mattis is also pissed
> his new boss called him a soldier. I love my retarted marine brothers and
> sisters, and we take offense whenever some civvy doesn't know the
> difference.
>
> That aside, with this raid being as botched as it was there were some
> critical failures in both intelligence and decision making at the highest
> level. Those units don't act unless they have very very very recent
> (sometimes to the minute) info unless told otherwise. Several things went
> wrong, no doubt, and some of that squarely falls on Trump. I don't care if
> he's your guy or if he's not, I don't give a damn. The go call in this
> instance was the wrong one.
>
> On Feb 28, 2017 7:10 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I never said all, I said all I know, limited to probably around fifty,
> only one is lt colonel in airforce reserves so no high ranking, and only
> two special forces limited to Rangers, the rest all being regular
> personnel, so not a great representation of the WHOLE military, but given
> the mindset amongst them I'd venture a guess without much apprehension that
> they are a pretty good representation of the military overall.
>
>
> On Feb 28, 2017 7:02 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
> wrote:
>
> You think all military active and veterans like Trump?  WowTrump was
> right about one thing.. he could kill someone in Times Square, and you'd
> say it okayI don't get it ...My critical mind is trying to understand
> this blind faith in him... Almost like Jim Jones...Damn
>
> On Feb 28, 2017 5:49 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Can't go with that when it came to our capabilities and mission objectives
> the last guy was mouth in chief. This admin didn't want any military plans
> made public ever.
> I'd like to think at the end of the day this was just a mission that
> turned shitshow fast on its own. It is an insult to call it poor planning
> considering that's saying the mission training over the last 3 months
> wasn't taken seriously by the SEAL team.
> I personally wouldn't be at all suprised if the community organizer in
> chief had his minions leak the details. Or one of his antifa terrorist
> friends still embedded in the administration did so. All to do what was
> done, discredit the current administration. Every currently serving and
> veteran military personnel I know, with hehe exception of Josh here,
> supports trump and understands what went down in this mission was what it
> was and wants the same as I do from the people responsible if there was a
> leak.
> Even their lost  brother in arms brother is a seal and hasn't said
> anything negative (though that may be a limitation of his status)
>
>
> On Feb 28, 2017 6:35 PM, "Bill Prince"  wrote:
>
> Might be simpler than that. Could just be a few idiots in the new admin
> that don't know how to keep their traps shut. His Orangeness doesn't seem
> to connect the dots very well himself. He thought the conversations that
> Flynn was having with the Russians were a good thing.
>
>
> On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 4:25 PM, Chuck McCown 
> wrote:
>
>
> Who benefits from the leak?
>
>1. ISIS
>2. Enemies of Trump/GOP/USA
>
> ISIS probably did not leak to themselves.
>
> So what does that leave us with?
>
> Apply Occam's razor.
>
> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 28, 2017 4:47 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT. New low ...Trump appears to blame generals for
> SEAL's death in Yemen raid
>
> Exactly, thats why the dad didnt need to request an investigation, it is
> being investigated
>
> He should have not addressed that during the softball interview and waited
> til tonights address with a prepared speech
>
> but this is going to have a shit ton of fallout
>
> On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 5:44 PM, Chuck McCown 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Streaming

[Lewis Bergman]

The best you can hope for is to offer the thing that makes your other thing
obsolete.

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017, 12:20 PM Roger Timmerman  wrote:

> It looks like you get 6 accounts for the $35/mo fee.  It will be
> interesting to watch what they do with Google Fiber TV.  Google's own
> customers will potentially be cable cutting to go with Youtube TV.
>
> On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 10:51 AM, Nate Burke  wrote:
>
> I really miss the regional stations on all Streaming services.  WGN and
> MeTV in Chicago.  You can't even get CLTV (all day Chicago news) on
> anything other than Wireline providers.
>
>
> On 3/1/2017 11:33 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
>
> On 3/1/17 08:17, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> “YouTube’s service will cost $35 a month, similar to the cheapest deals
> from AT& T’s DirecTV Now and Sony’s PlayStation Vue, but more expensive
> than Dish’s Sling TV. It comes with unlimited storage in a cloud DVR; “
>
>
>
> Hmm, I wonder if they'll leverage the existing CDN infrastructure that
> already feeds YouTube, especially at internet exchanges. If I have to build
> transport somewhere for a competing TV service that's more costly than
> YouTube coming off a peering I already have.
>
> ~Seth
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Streaming

[Roger Timmerman]

It looks like you get 6 accounts for the $35/mo fee.  It will be
interesting to watch what they do with Google Fiber TV.  Google's own
customers will potentially be cable cutting to go with Youtube TV.

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 10:51 AM, Nate Burke  wrote:

> I really miss the regional stations on all Streaming services.  WGN and
> MeTV in Chicago.  You can't even get CLTV (all day Chicago news) on
> anything other than Wireline providers.
>
>
> On 3/1/2017 11:33 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
>
>> On 3/1/17 08:17, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>>> “YouTube’s service will cost $35 a month, similar to the cheapest deals
>>> from AT& T’s DirecTV Now and Sony’s PlayStation Vue, but more expensive
>>> than Dish’s Sling TV. It comes with unlimited storage in a cloud DVR; “
>>>
>>
>>
>> Hmm, I wonder if they'll leverage the existing CDN infrastructure that
>> already feeds YouTube, especially at internet exchanges. If I have to build
>> transport somewhere for a competing TV service that's more costly than
>> YouTube coming off a peering I already have.
>>
>> ~Seth
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Streaming

[Nate Burke]

I really miss the regional stations on all Streaming services.  WGN and 
MeTV in Chicago.  You can't even get CLTV (all day Chicago news) on 
anything other than Wireline providers.


On 3/1/2017 11:33 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:

On 3/1/17 08:17, Chuck McCown wrote:

“YouTube’s service will cost $35 a month, similar to the cheapest deals
from AT& T’s DirecTV Now and Sony’s PlayStation Vue, but more expensive
than Dish’s Sling TV. It comes with unlimited storage in a cloud DVR; “



Hmm, I wonder if they'll leverage the existing CDN infrastructure that 
already feeds YouTube, especially at internet exchanges. If I have to 
build transport somewhere for a competing TV service that's more 
costly than YouTube coming off a peering I already have.


~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Youtube Data Storage

[Josh Reynolds]

Haven't fact check it, but I heard today Netflix is pulling in something
like $12 Billion a month now.

On Mar 1, 2017 11:39 AM, "Robert Andrews"  wrote:

> At the peak downloads of Netscape browser back in '97 we were _netting_ a
> million per day.   That was back in 1997.   yeah, I could pretty much spend
> anything I wanted to keep the downloads going.   We foresaw a bump in
> downloads coming for the 2.0 browser and I went out and picked up $200K in
> SGI processors off their loading dock overnight with a credit card purchase
> (Amex Black for the win)...We were very small fry compared to what's
> going on now.   Probably multiply those numbers by 10K or even 100K for
> today.
>
> On 03/01/2017 09:08 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
>
>> I was reading an article the other day that referenced that youtube
>> users upload 400 hours of video every minute, or 65 years of video every
>> day.  Is my math right in showing that at an average of 2.5mb/s for the
>> video size, that's 600 TB of data per day being uploaded?  Given
>> redundant copies being made, Youtube is bringing online over a Petabyte
>> per day of storage.
>>
>> Since I've only been involved with Small businesses, wrapping my head
>> around this amount of storage and $$$ is hard.
>>
>> Realizing that Google is custom, I'll use Backblaze for some math.
>> Backblaze will do 45 drives in 4U@600w power draw  47U rack height = 11
>> 4U boxes = 495HD /rack  If they're 8tb drives, that's 4PB/rack. If
>> Google is paying 1/2 retail cost for drives, that's $175/drive, or $90k
>> per rack (+ Hardware)  6.6kw power draw (+ Cooling).
>>
>> So every 4 Days, they spend $100k in Hardware, and increases their
>> electric bill by 8kw?
>>
>> I guess when you're dealing with Billions of Dollars, a $100k every
>> couple days' isn't such a big deal.
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Youtube Data Storage

[Robert Andrews]

At the peak downloads of Netscape browser back in '97 we were _netting_ 
a million per day.   That was back in 1997.   yeah, I could pretty much 
spend anything I wanted to keep the downloads going.   We foresaw a bump 
in downloads coming for the 2.0 browser and I went out and picked up 
$200K in SGI processors off their loading dock overnight with a credit 
card purchase (Amex Black for the win)...We were very small fry 
compared to what's going on now.   Probably multiply those numbers by 
10K or even 100K for today.


On 03/01/2017 09:08 AM, Nate Burke wrote:

I was reading an article the other day that referenced that youtube
users upload 400 hours of video every minute, or 65 years of video every
day.  Is my math right in showing that at an average of 2.5mb/s for the
video size, that's 600 TB of data per day being uploaded?  Given
redundant copies being made, Youtube is bringing online over a Petabyte
per day of storage.

Since I've only been involved with Small businesses, wrapping my head
around this amount of storage and $$$ is hard.

Realizing that Google is custom, I'll use Backblaze for some math.
Backblaze will do 45 drives in 4U@600w power draw  47U rack height = 11
4U boxes = 495HD /rack  If they're 8tb drives, that's 4PB/rack. If
Google is paying 1/2 retail cost for drives, that's $175/drive, or $90k
per rack (+ Hardware)  6.6kw power draw (+ Cooling).

So every 4 Days, they spend $100k in Hardware, and increases their
electric bill by 8kw?

I guess when you're dealing with Billions of Dollars, a $100k every
couple days' isn't such a big deal.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Streaming

[Seth Mattinen]

On 3/1/17 08:17, Chuck McCown wrote:

“YouTube’s service will cost $35 a month, similar to the cheapest deals
from AT& T’s DirecTV Now and Sony’s PlayStation Vue, but more expensive
than Dish’s Sling TV. It comes with unlimited storage in a cloud DVR; “



Hmm, I wonder if they'll leverage the existing CDN infrastructure that 
already feeds YouTube, especially at internet exchanges. If I have to 
build transport somewhere for a competing TV service that's more costly 
than YouTube coming off a peering I already have.


~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Youtube Data Storage

[Nate Burke]

I remember reading some years ago that that's how facebook worked. Every 
picture/video was converted and stored in all possible resolutions and 
quality upon upload.  Although I'm guessing that a few days after the 
upload, both Youtube and Facebook have data that is rarely accessed, so 
maybe they lose the extra copies.


I think there was an article on Facebook testing moving older 
pictures/videos to a Blu-Ray based nearline storage that could store 
10's of PB/rack, but would have several minutes of latency for reading.


On 3/1/2017 11:12 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
They don't transcode live, IIRC, so they have each resolution and 
quality version stored as well. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a 
rack per day of non-redundant storage just for YouTube.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Nate Burke" 
*To: *"Animal Farm" 
*Sent: *Wednesday, March 1, 2017 11:08:15 AM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] OT: Youtube Data Storage

I was reading an article the other day that referenced that youtube
users upload 400 hours of video every minute, or 65 years of video every
day.  Is my math right in showing that at an average of 2.5mb/s for the
video size, that's 600 TB of data per day being uploaded?  Given
redundant copies being made, Youtube is bringing online over a Petabyte
per day of storage.

Since I've only been involved with Small businesses, wrapping my head
around this amount of storage and $$ is hard.

Realizing that Google is custom, I'll use Backblaze for some math.
Backblaze will do 45 drives in 4U@600w power draw  47U rack height = 11
4U boxes = 495HD /rack  If they're 8tb drives, that's 4PB/rack. If
Google is paying 1/2 retail cost for drives, that's $175/drive, or $90k
per rack (+ Hardware)  6.6kw power draw (+ Cooling).

So every 4 Days, they spend $100k in Hardware, and increases their
electric bill by 8kw?

I guess when you're dealing with Billions of Dollars, a $100k every
couple days' isn't such a big deal.

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Youtube Data Storage

[Josh Reynolds]

I know the "Big Ten" web companies (Google, Facebook, etc) are currently
pushing for 800Gbps optics.

Makes sense.

On Mar 1, 2017 11:12 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> They don't transcode live, IIRC, so they have each resolution and quality
> version stored as well. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a rack per day
> of non-redundant storage just for YouTube.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Nate Burke" 
> *To: *"Animal Farm" 
> *Sent: *Wednesday, March 1, 2017 11:08:15 AM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] OT: Youtube Data Storage
>
> I was reading an article the other day that referenced that youtube
> users upload 400 hours of video every minute, or 65 years of video every
> day.  Is my math right in showing that at an average of 2.5mb/s for the
> video size, that's 600 TB of data per day being uploaded?  Given
> redundant copies being made, Youtube is bringing online over a Petabyte
> per day of storage.
>
> Since I've only been involved with Small businesses, wrapping my head
> around this amount of storage and $$ is hard.
>
> Realizing that Google is custom, I'll use Backblaze for some math.
> Backblaze will do 45 drives in 4U@600w power draw  47U rack height = 11
> 4U boxes = 495HD /rack  If they're 8tb drives, that's 4PB/rack. If
> Google is paying 1/2 retail cost for drives, that's $175/drive, or $90k
> per rack (+ Hardware)  6.6kw power draw (+ Cooling).
>
> So every 4 Days, they spend $100k in Hardware, and increases their
> electric bill by 8kw?
>
> I guess when you're dealing with Billions of Dollars, a $100k every
> couple days' isn't such a big deal.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Youtube Data Storage

[Mike Hammett]

They don't transcode live, IIRC, so they have each resolution and quality 
version stored as well. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a rack per day of 
non-redundant storage just for YouTube. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Nate Burke"  
To: "Animal Farm"  
Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2017 11:08:15 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: Youtube Data Storage 

I was reading an article the other day that referenced that youtube 
users upload 400 hours of video every minute, or 65 years of video every 
day. Is my math right in showing that at an average of 2.5mb/s for the 
video size, that's 600 TB of data per day being uploaded? Given 
redundant copies being made, Youtube is bringing online over a Petabyte 
per day of storage. 

Since I've only been involved with Small businesses, wrapping my head 
around this amount of storage and $$$ is hard. 

Realizing that Google is custom, I'll use Backblaze for some math. 
Backblaze will do 45 drives in 4U@600w power draw 47U rack height = 11 
4U boxes = 495HD /rack If they're 8tb drives, that's 4PB/rack. If 
Google is paying 1/2 retail cost for drives, that's $175/drive, or $90k 
per rack (+ Hardware) 6.6kw power draw (+ Cooling). 

So every 4 Days, they spend $100k in Hardware, and increases their 
electric bill by 8kw? 

I guess when you're dealing with Billions of Dollars, a $100k every 
couple days' isn't such a big deal. 

Re: [AFMUG] It's heeeeere.... well amost.

[Joe Falaschi]

They had to change the sync over power method because the old method would not 
work with the 450m’s much larger power draw and the necessity of gigabit 
ethernet data rates.

Joe



> On Mar 1, 2017, at 9:55 AM, Josh Luthman  wrote:
> 
> Why in the piss did they change sync for the 450m??  There's already 2 
> methods *FROM CAMBIUM*!
> 
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 1:17 AM, Colin Stanners  > wrote:
> MSPGGA!
> 
> Make Sync Product GUIs Great Again!.
> 
> On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 11:02 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
> > wrote:
> http://store.packetflux.com/packetflux-rackinjector/ 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.
> Tel: 406-449-3345 <> | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> forre...@imach.com  | http://www.packetflux.com 
> 
>      
> 
> 
> 
> 

[AFMUG] OT: Youtube Data Storage

[Nate Burke]

I was reading an article the other day that referenced that youtube 
users upload 400 hours of video every minute, or 65 years of video every 
day.  Is my math right in showing that at an average of 2.5mb/s for the 
video size, that's 600 TB of data per day being uploaded?  Given 
redundant copies being made, Youtube is bringing online over a Petabyte 
per day of storage.


Since I've only been involved with Small businesses, wrapping my head 
around this amount of storage and $$$ is hard.


Realizing that Google is custom, I'll use Backblaze for some math.
Backblaze will do 45 drives in 4U@600w power draw  47U rack height = 11 
4U boxes = 495HD /rack  If they're 8tb drives, that's 4PB/rack. If 
Google is paying 1/2 retail cost for drives, that's $175/drive, or $90k 
per rack (+ Hardware)  6.6kw power draw (+ Cooling).


So every 4 Days, they spend $100k in Hardware, and increases their 
electric bill by 8kw?


I guess when you're dealing with Billions of Dollars, a $100k every 
couple days' isn't such a big deal.

Re: [AFMUG] OT: IR Mirror

[Josh Luthman]

Every place I have a TV there seems to be white/glossy paint.  I can easily
point at the wall and it reflects back to hit the TV.  A mirror would just
be a nearly 0% loss compared to the paint.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 11:36 AM, Jon Bruce 
wrote:

> IR will actually be visible with a camera (cell phone works great) if you
> need a visual to test. Also +1 for that diagram.
>
>
> On 3/1/2017 11:19 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> Yes it does.  Very well.  Sometimes just white paint will do the job too.
> Or glossy paint.  Depends on the optical output power of the remote and the
> sensitivity of the receiver.  Try aiming the receiver at the ceiling
> first.  Then add some foil if that does not work.
>
> *From:* Nate Burke
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 01, 2017 9:17 AM
> *To:* Animal Farm
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: IR Mirror
>
> Does a regular mirror bounce IR Signals?  If so, how big would it need to
> be.  Or does it not work this way?
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT. New low ...Trump appears to blame generals for SEAL's death in Yemen raid

[Josh Reynolds]

Marines want to be called Marines. They earned that right.

Soldiers want to be called Soldiers. They also earned that right.

I'm no paint huffing crayon-eater! ;)

On Mar 1, 2017 9:40 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> Phew, lots of deleting.  Have we passed this turd finally?
>
> Deep cleansing breath, in through the nose, slow out through pursed lips.
> Repeat, repeat, om
>
> I have wonder why Marines always want to be called Warriors when all the
> other soldiers and sailors are OK with their titles?  My son in law is a
> Marine.  He put on a uniform and shot bullets at enemies, same as the army
> guys.
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 28, 2017 6:21 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT. New low ...Trump appears to blame generals for
> SEAL's death in Yemen raid
>
> There is a very large group of veterans who are fucking pissed that our
> commander in chief said that we don't fight to win. Mattis is also pissed
> his new boss called him a soldier. I love my retarted marine brothers and
> sisters, and we take offense whenever some civvy doesn't know the
> difference.
>
> That aside, with this raid being as botched as it was there were some
> critical failures in both intelligence and decision making at the highest
> level. Those units don't act unless they have very very very recent
> (sometimes to the minute) info unless told otherwise. Several things went
> wrong, no doubt, and some of that squarely falls on Trump. I don't care if
> he's your guy or if he's not, I don't give a damn. The go call in this
> instance was the wrong one.
>
> On Feb 28, 2017 7:10 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I never said all, I said all I know, limited to probably around fifty,
>> only one is lt colonel in airforce reserves so no high ranking, and only
>> two special forces limited to Rangers, the rest all being regular
>> personnel, so not a great representation of the WHOLE military, but given
>> the mindset amongst them I'd venture a guess without much apprehension that
>> they are a pretty good representation of the military overall.
>>
>> On Feb 28, 2017 7:02 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
>> wrote:
>>
>> You think all military active and veterans like Trump?  WowTrump was
>> right about one thing.. he could kill someone in Times Square, and you'd
>> say it okayI don't get it ...My critical mind is trying to understand
>> this blind faith in him... Almost like Jim Jones...Damn
>>
>> On Feb 28, 2017 5:49 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" <
>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Can't go with that when it came to our capabilities and mission
>>> objectives the last guy was mouth in chief. This admin didn't want any
>>> military plans made public ever.
>>> I'd like to think at the end of the day this was just a mission that
>>> turned shitshow fast on its own. It is an insult to call it poor planning
>>> considering that's saying the mission training over the last 3 months
>>> wasn't taken seriously by the SEAL team.
>>> I personally wouldn't be at all suprised if the community organizer in
>>> chief had his minions leak the details. Or one of his antifa terrorist
>>> friends still embedded in the administration did so. All to do what was
>>> done, discredit the current administration. Every currently serving and
>>> veteran military personnel I know, with hehe exception of Josh here,
>>> supports trump and understands what went down in this mission was what it
>>> was and wants the same as I do from the people responsible if there was a
>>> leak.
>>> Even their lost  brother in arms brother is a seal and hasn't said
>>> anything negative (though that may be a limitation of his status)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 28, 2017 6:35 PM, "Bill Prince"  wrote:
>>>
 Might be simpler than that. Could just be a few idiots in the new admin
 that don't know how to keep their traps shut. His Orangeness doesn't seem
 to connect the dots very well himself. He thought the conversations that
 Flynn was having with the Russians were a good thing.


 On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 4:25 PM, Chuck McCown 
 wrote:


 Who benefits from the leak?

1. ISIS
2. Enemies of Trump/GOP/USA

 ISIS probably did not leak to themselves.

 So what does that leave us with?

 Apply Occam's razor.

 *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm
 *Sent:* Tuesday, February 28, 2017 4:47 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT. New low ...Trump appears to blame generals
 for SEAL's death in Yemen raid

 Exactly, thats why the dad didnt need to request an investigation, it
 is being investigated

 He should have not addressed that during the softball interview and
 waited til tonights address with a prepared speech

 but this is going to have a shit ton of fallout

Re: [AFMUG] OT: IR Mirror

[Jon Bruce]

IR will actually be visible with a camera (cell phone works great) if 
you need a visual to test. Also +1 for that diagram.


On 3/1/2017 11:19 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Yes it does.  Very well.  Sometimes just white paint will do the job 
too.  Or glossy paint.  Depends on the optical output power of the 
remote and the sensitivity of the receiver.  Try aiming the receiver 
at the ceiling first. Then add some foil if that does not work.

*From:* Nate Burke
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 01, 2017 9:17 AM
*To:* Animal Farm
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: IR Mirror
Does a regular mirror bounce IR Signals?  If so, how big would it need 
to be.  Or does it not work this way?

Re: [AFMUG] OT Streaming

[Chuck McCown]

I should have said, if Sling had Discovery I would cancel Directv Now.

-Original Message- 
From: Bill Prince

Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 9:30 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Streaming

I also heard something about 8 accounts (might be the wrong number) for
the $35 MRC.


bp


On 3/1/2017 8:17 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
“YouTube’s service will cost $35 a month, similar to the cheapest deals 
from AT& T’s DirecTV Now and Sony’s PlayStation Vue, but more expensive 
than Dish’s Sling TV. It comes with unlimited storage in a cloud DVR; “


I signed up to be a beta for Hulu yesterday too.
Sling DVR works but isn't as good as satellite TV or my tivo.

I never saw the VUE dvr, I cancelled service when they shut me off without 
warning.


If tivo had Discovery I would cancel the directv now  service.  I keep 
hoping that directv now will get the DVR and ROKU ap running soon.  I like 
its UI and guide.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Streaming

[Bill Prince]

I also heard something about 8 accounts (might be the wrong number) for 
the $35 MRC.



bp


On 3/1/2017 8:17 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
“YouTube’s service will cost $35 a month, similar to the cheapest 
deals from AT& T’s DirecTV Now and Sony’s PlayStation Vue, but more 
expensive than Dish’s Sling TV. It comes with unlimited storage in a 
cloud DVR; “


I signed up to be a beta for Hulu yesterday too.
Sling DVR works but isn't as good as satellite TV or my tivo.

I never saw the VUE dvr, I cancelled service when they shut me off 
without warning.


If tivo had Discovery I would cancel the directv now  service.  I keep 
hoping that directv now will get the DVR and ROKU ap running soon.  I 
like its UI and guide.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Lent

[Jaime Solorza]

That was a joke of course

On Mar 1, 2017 9:14 AM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:

> I usually give up Lent for Lent
>
> On Mar 1, 2017 9:01 AM, "Robert"  wrote:
>
>> That would involve taking them up first...   Seems like a sweet deal for
>> you...
>>
>> On 3/1/17 7:56 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>>> I think I might give up alcohol and tobacco for lent.
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT. New low ...Trump appears to blame generals for SEAL's death in Yemen raid

[Jason McKemie]

A serious issue with regard to the administration's stance on the media is
that there is no amount of investigation that will change their rhetoric.
If the actual facts don't line up with their agenda, they're "alternative",
period. There is nothing short of towing the current administration's line
that the media can do to be "unbiased".

On Tuesday, February 28, 2017, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> I'm going to post at the top of this thread because I don't want to be
> drawn into any particular part of this drama.
>
> Everyone needs to step back, take a breath, and realize that none of us
> have the entire picture.
>
> Trump spews that Obama and/or Hillary or the Democrats or someone else is
> behind everything - yet refuses to provide any proof.   It's just pull a
> possible fact out of thin air and state it authoritatively.   Maybe it's
> true.  Maybe it's not.   Maybe Trump knows something we don't.   Who Knows?
>Trump believers believe he is almost always stating the truth.  Trump
> detractors believe he is almost always lying.   I'm not going to include
> where I fall on my set of beliefs in this discussion.
>
> The media is no better:  They take trump sound bites and blow it out of
> proportion.  True Investigative reporting is mostly dead in this country.
> Instead it's all based on 160 characters here and 160 characters there.
> Everything is slanted one way or another.   If you're a Trump supporter you
> tend to watch media which slants stuff trump, and if you're a Trump
> detractor you tend to watch media which slants stuff the other way, which
> reinforces one's beliefs.
>
> We have entered into a realm where belief in something being true seems
> more important than the actual facts.   People's beliefs are based on a
> soundbyte here and a soundbyte there or a tweet here and a tweet there.
> And when the soundbytes are suspect, then everyone's beliefs are suspect.
>
> I have grave concerns about some of the directions the Trump
> admininistration appears to be taking us, and yet am excited about some of
> the other things trump is trying to do.
>
> We all need to do a better job of trying to look beyond the soundbytes and
> tweets and get to to the underlying issues here.   Unfortunately, there
> doesn't seem to be an easy way to get there since the traditional media
> seems to be part of the problem...
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 3:12 PM, Jaime Solorza  > wrote:
>
>> https://news.google.com/news/amp?caurl=http%3A%2F%2Fthehill.
>> com%2Fpolicy%2Fdefense%2F321614-trump-appears-to-
>> place-blame-on-generals-for-seal-killed-in-yemen-raid%3Famp#pt0-72526
>>
>
>
>
> --
> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> forre...@imach.com  |
> http://www.packetflux.com
>   
>   
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: IR Mirror

[Chuck McCown]

Yes it does.  Very well.  Sometimes just white paint will do the job too.  Or 
glossy paint.  Depends on the optical output power of the remote and the 
sensitivity of the receiver.  Try aiming the receiver at the ceiling first.  
Then add some foil if that does not work.  

From: Nate Burke 
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 9:17 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: IR Mirror

Does a regular mirror bounce IR Signals?  If so, how big would it need to be.  
Or does it not work this way?

[AFMUG] OT: IR Mirror

[Nate Burke]

Does a regular mirror bounce IR Signals?  If so, how big would it need 
to be.  Or does it not work this way?

[AFMUG] OT Streaming

[Chuck McCown]

“YouTube’s service will cost $35 a month, similar to the cheapest deals from 
AT& T’s DirecTV Now and Sony’s PlayStation Vue, but more expensive than Dish’s 
Sling TV. It comes with unlimited storage in a cloud DVR; “


I signed up to be a beta for Hulu yesterday too.
Sling DVR works but isn't as good as satellite TV or my tivo.

I never saw the VUE dvr, I cancelled service when they shut me off without 
warning.


If tivo had Discovery I would cancel the directv now  service.  I keep 
hoping that directv now will get the DVR and ROKU ap running soon.  I like 
its UI and guide. 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Lent

[Mathew Howard]

Or you could make it easier and give up taking up alcohol and tobacco.

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Robert  wrote:

> That would involve taking them up first...   Seems like a sweet deal for
> you...
>
>
> On 3/1/17 7:56 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
>> I think I might give up alcohol and tobacco for lent.
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Lent

[Jaime Solorza]

I usually give up Lent for Lent

On Mar 1, 2017 9:01 AM, "Robert"  wrote:

> That would involve taking them up first...   Seems like a sweet deal for
> you...
>
> On 3/1/17 7:56 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
>> I think I might give up alcohol and tobacco for lent.
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT this list

[Chuck McCown]

Make that Vince McMahon.

From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 9:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT this list

Sometimes this list is like watching Hulk Hogan, Randy Travis and Andre the 
Giant in a cage fight.  Do I get to be Vince Vaughn?  

[AFMUG] OT this list

[Chuck McCown]

Sometimes this list is like watching Hulk Hogan, Randy Travis and Andre the 
Giant in a cage fight.  Do I get to be Vince Vaughn?  

Re: [AFMUG] OT Lent

[Robert]

That would involve taking them up first...   Seems like a sweet deal for 
you...


On 3/1/17 7:56 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

I think I might give up alcohol and tobacco for lent.

[AFMUG] OT Lent

[Chuck McCown]

I think I might give up alcohol and tobacco for lent.  

Re: [AFMUG] It's heeeeere.... well amost.

[Josh Luthman]

Why in the piss did they change sync for the 450m??  There's already 2
methods *FROM CAMBIUM*!


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 1:17 AM, Colin Stanners  wrote:

> MSPGGA!
>
> Make Sync Product GUIs Great Again!.
>
> On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 11:02 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> http://store.packetflux.com/packetflux-rackinjector/
>>
>> --
>> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
>> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
>> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>> 
>>   
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT. New low ...Trump appears to blame generals for SEAL's death in Yemen raid

[Chuck McCown]

Phew, lots of deleting.  Have we passed this turd finally?

Deep cleansing breath, in through the nose, slow out through pursed lips.  
Repeat, repeat, om

I have wonder why Marines always want to be called Warriors when all the other 
soldiers and sailors are OK with their titles?  My son in law is a Marine.  He 
put on a uniform and shot bullets at enemies, same as the army guys.  

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 6:21 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT. New low ...Trump appears to blame generals for SEAL's 
death in Yemen raid

There is a very large group of veterans who are fucking pissed that our 
commander in chief said that we don't fight to win. Mattis is also pissed his 
new boss called him a soldier. I love my retarted marine brothers and sisters, 
and we take offense whenever some civvy doesn't know the difference. 

That aside, with this raid being as botched as it was there were some critical 
failures in both intelligence and decision making at the highest level. Those 
units don't act unless they have very very very recent (sometimes to the 
minute) info unless told otherwise. Several things went wrong, no doubt, and 
some of that squarely falls on Trump. I don't care if he's your guy or if he's 
not, I don't give a damn. The go call in this instance was the wrong one.

On Feb 28, 2017 7:10 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm"  
wrote:

  I never said all, I said all I know, limited to probably around fifty, only 
one is lt colonel in airforce reserves so no high ranking, and only two special 
forces limited to Rangers, the rest all being regular personnel, so not a great 
representation of the WHOLE military, but given the mindset amongst them I'd 
venture a guess without much apprehension that they are a pretty good 
representation of the military overall.

  On Feb 28, 2017 7:02 PM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:

You think all military active and veterans like Trump?  WowTrump was 
right about one thing.. he could kill someone in Times Square, and you'd say it 
okayI don't get it ...My critical mind is trying to understand this blind 
faith in him... Almost like Jim Jones...Damn

On Feb 28, 2017 5:49 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" 
 wrote:

  Can't go with that when it came to our capabilities and mission 
objectives the last guy was mouth in chief. This admin didn't want any military 
plans made public ever. 
  I'd like to think at the end of the day this was just a mission that 
turned shitshow fast on its own. It is an insult to call it poor planning 
considering that's saying the mission training over the last 3 months wasn't 
taken seriously by the SEAL team. 
  I personally wouldn't be at all suprised if the community organizer in 
chief had his minions leak the details. Or one of his antifa terrorist friends 
still embedded in the administration did so. All to do what was done, discredit 
the current administration. Every currently serving and veteran military 
personnel I know, with hehe exception of Josh here, supports trump and 
understands what went down in this mission was what it was and wants the same 
as I do from the people responsible if there was a leak. 
  Even their lost  brother in arms brother is a seal and hasn't said 
anything negative (though that may be a limitation of his status)


  On Feb 28, 2017 6:35 PM, "Bill Prince"  wrote:

Might be simpler than that. Could just be a few idiots in the new admin 
that don't know how to keep their traps shut. His Orangeness doesn't seem to 
connect the dots very well himself. He thought the conversations that Flynn was 
having with the Russians were a good thing.



On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 4:25 PM, Chuck McCown  
wrote:




Who benefits from the leak?
  1.. ISIS 
  2.. Enemies of Trump/GOP/USA
ISIS probably did not leak to themselves.  

So what does that leave us with?

Apply Occam's razor.  

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 4:47 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT. New low ...Trump appears to blame generals for 
SEAL's death in Yemen raid

Exactly, thats why the dad didnt need to request an investigation, it 
is being investigated 

He should have not addressed that during the softball interview and 
waited til tonights address with a prepared speech

but this is going to have a shit ton of fallout

On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 5:44 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  The person to blame is the one that leaked details of the action to 
the bad guys.  
  They walked into a setup.  This was long planned under Obama.  

  How do you not know that Obama did not leak it to make Trump look 
bad?  Or Hillary?

  Somebody in the know 

Re: [AFMUG] AF24 and Edgepoint Slow Speed in 1 Direction

[can...@believewireless.net]

Check all of your MTU settings. If you are using jumbo frames, make sure
the MTU is set in the routers, switch and in the AF24s as well.

On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 6:39 PM, Nate Burke  wrote:

> Now I'm starting to really get confused.
>
> I physically changed the AF24, and now I can send 1500b ICMP Packets
> through it with no loss and UDP BW Test is fine, but TCP BW Test will
> connect but pass 0 traffic.
>
> If I change the Edgepoint to send tagged traffic over the AF24, instead of
> untagged to the Mikrotik on the other end.  Everything is perfect.  Change
> it back to untagged, and Pings still go through, but no TCP Traffic.
>
> The Original AF24 radio does not work Either tagged or Untagged, so I'm
> pretty sure there is something wrong with it.
>
>
>
>
> On 2/27/2017 4:05 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
>
>> I think this might be an issue between the Edgepoint and the Airfiber.  I
>> set the Port on the Edgepoint on the same network as the AF24 radio, and as
>> I increase ICMP Packet size, I start to have more and more packet loss to
>> the radio itself.
>>
>> This was a Brand New AF24, cable length is about 10'  Showing 29DB SNR on
>> all cable pairs.  However I'm realizing now that the radio plugged into the
>> Edgepoint does not give me a cable length, but the AF24 on the other end
>> does.  I wonder if this is an older unit I ended up with and there's some
>> sort of Ethernet incompatibility. Reading through the forums, there's a lot
>> of posts about older AF24 units and MTU size speculating that a hardware
>> changed occurred somewhere along the line, but never confirmed by UBNT.
>>
>> Nate
>>
>>
>> On 2/27/2017 8:34 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
>>
>>> Nate,
>>> For testing purposes
>>>
>>> Considering using the Traffic Generator vs the BW Test tool. (look at
>>> the MT wiki for instructions).
>>> With CCR1009, pay attention to which ports you are connecting to.. due
>>> to the switch chip in there, not all ports have 1g connection to the CPU.
>>>
>>> Avoid, bridge ports, change the default interface queue to
>>> ethernet-defaut
>>> you can also get more information out of the AF24, by connecting to them
>>> via ssh/telnet and issuing emacstat command..
>>>
>>> I am not sure about the Edgepoint or 16SG, if they provide enhanced
>>> ethernet stats. (We like the netonix cause they show a lot more details of
>>> ethernet stats, the MT will also do that when you look at the ethernet
>>> stats via CLI)
>>>
>>> All of these should be able to help you find the issue.
>>>
>>> Regards.
>>>
>>> Faisal Imtiaz
>>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>>> 7266 SW 48 Street
>>> Miami, FL 33155
>>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>>>
>>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>>
 From: "Nate Burke" 
 To: af@afmug.com
 Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 9:08:12 AM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AF24 and Edgepoint Slow Speed in 1 Direction
 Flow control is disabled in both the Edgepoint and the 16SG. I found a
 CCR1009 with an SFP+ Port I can put on the 16XG to test to the X86 10G
 card.  Other than the Tik on the other end of the AF24 link, I don't
 have any other Tik's directly connected to this setup.

 On 2/26/2017 10:10 PM, Mitch Koep wrote:

> Flow Control??
>
>
> On 02/26/2017 06:31 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
>
>> I have a setup which I just Installed, and I'm trying to track down
>> no speed in 1 direction on the link, Not having much luck so far, so
>> I thought I'd ask.  The AF24 is reporting full modulation.  I can't
>> even maintain a winbox connection to the router.
>>
>> RB1100X2 -> Copper to AF24
>> AF24 -> Copper to Edgepoint S16 -> 10G fiber to Edgeswitch 16XG ->
>> 10G fiber to X86 Mikrotik with Dell KJYD8 Broadcom 10G card.
>>
>> The Mikrotik to AF24 path is on the default Vlan1 on the 16XG and
>> Edgepoint S16.
>>
>> Bandwidth Test results:
>> TCP BW test at 500mb+ from the RB1100X2 (cpu limit) to the X86
>> ~2mb from the X86 to the RB1100X2.
>>
>> UDP BW Test at 700MB from the RB1100X2 to the X86
>> X86 is transmitting 700mb, but the RB1100 is only receiving ~400mb
>>
>> MTU on everything is set to 1518.
>>
>>
>> Open to any ideas of what to try.
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] tornadoes

[Jaime Solorza]

Heard about two deaths.
..Stay safe..

On Mar 1, 2017 7:28 AM, "Bruce Robertson"  wrote:

> So I wonder if the house I own in Morris is still there.  Probably would
> have heard something by now if not.
>
> On 2/28/17 3:20 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>
> in the last 4 minutes
>
> Dangerous tornado producing storm very near Morris moving east/northeast
> at 35 MPH!
>
> Sirens are in minooka
> Sirens Just went off in Oswego
> Sirens in Coal City
> Sirens in Morris
> Sirens going off in Plano
> Sirens in Shorewood
> Sirens are still going off in Morris. LOTS of lightening
> sirens are going off now in Joliet/ Plainfield area
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 5:16 PM, Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> Keep us posted..
>>
>> On Feb 28, 2017 4:14 PM, "George Skorup" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I hate my life
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
> !DSPAM:2,58b605db237543540419986!
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] CFIP Lumina Firmware

[Matt]

Emailing tech support works well.  They are very responsive and helpful.


On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 6:53 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:
> How does one go about getting the latest firmware for SAF Lumina?  Don’t see
> it on their site?  This isn’t one of those things where they want you to pay
> a support contract to get it is it?
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> Paul McCall, President
>
> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>
> 772-564-6800
>
> pa...@pdmnet.net
>
> www.pdmnet.com
>
> www.floridabroadband.com
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] tornadoes

[Bruce Robertson]

So I wonder if the house I own in Morris is still there.  Probably would 
have heard something by now if not.


On 2/28/17 3:20 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

in the last 4 minutes

Dangerous tornado producing storm very near Morris moving 
east/northeast at 35 MPH!


Sirens are in minooka
Sirens Just went off in Oswego
Sirens in Coal City
Sirens in Morris
Sirens going off in Plano
Sirens in Shorewood
Sirens are still going off in Morris. LOTS of lightening
sirens are going off now in Joliet/ Plainfield area


On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 5:16 PM, Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:


Keep us posted..

On Feb 28, 2017 4:14 PM, "George Skorup" > wrote:

I hate my life




--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your 
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
!DSPAM:2,58b605db237543540419986! 

[AFMUG] CFIP Lumina Firmware

[Paul McCall]

How does one go about getting the latest firmware for SAF Lumina?  Don't see it 
on their site?  This isn't one of those things where they want you to pay a 
support contract to get it is it?

Paul

Paul McCall, President
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800
pa...@pdmnet.net
www.pdmnet.com
www.floridabroadband.com

Re: [AFMUG] PMP450 900mhz SM RP-SMA connectors nut torque

[Matt Mangriotis]

On assembly, the specified torque is 1 +- 0.25 Nm.  Sorry for the delay on 
this... traveling this week.

Matt

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 6:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PMP450 900mhz SM RP-SMA connectors nut torque

Same with the ePMP SMA nuts that come slightly loose out of the box some times. 
I just tighten them with my fingernails a little bit. Enough to compress the 
little red gasket washer thing a bit.

On 2/28/2017 6:04 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
> The PMP450 900mhz SM has the connectors on top of the radio, which 
> worries me in terms of water ingress (can't really rubber tape the 
> connector-case area)
>
> One the first SM I tried, the nuts that tighten the weatherproofing 
> were a bit loose - does anyone know how tight to put them? Don't want 
> it too tight that it breaks solder on the connections after a few 
> years of temperature cycling.