Re: [AFMUG] LIST: Overnight adjustments

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

I would argue "broken, but tolerable based on the use of SES in the middle".

The From: address should be the sender.
The Reply-To: address should be the list.

The way the headers are now you cannot see the email address of the sender
at all.  This is wrong, but I'm not sure what they can do about it with the
way it is currently architected.

SES being in the middle here is the problem.  SES requires a lot of
specific items to ensure that it isn't used to send anonymous spam.  The
most aggressive one being the requirement that each and every from address
is verified on their amazon account.  And worse, it expects the
capitalization of those from addresses never to change, and so on.   SES in
the middle isn't the right architecture choice, but apparently it was
necessary for some reason.

I'm expecting the realization that SES is actually charging per-message and
for data transfer to lead to SES being pulled out of the equation one way
or another.   I have dug some and I sure don't see any way around the SES
pricing...

-forrest

On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 10:04 PM, Seth Mattinen via Af  wrote:

> On 9/16/14, 8:49 PM, Paul McCall via Af wrote:
>
>> At this point though, to characterize the list as "broken" is a bit
>> harsh, IMO
>>
>
>
> I don't think I'm being harsh. The headers on this new list are jumbled up
> in a way that's contrary to generally accepted mailing list behavior. As a
> technical person it's plain broken; how clients interpret the combination
> of headers with List-* headers to pretty-print things for the end user is
> not an indication of "working".
>
> The yardstick for "fixed" vs. "broken" should not be how things appear on
> the surface, but found in the headers. The References aren't working to
> thread. The "From" header is wrong. The envelope sender isn't the list
> manager. But if everyone accepts it then whatever, I won't waste my energy.
>
> ~Seth
>

Re: [AFMUG] Speedtest replacements?

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Why not just host a speedtest.net server and have your customers test to
it?

-forrest

On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 8:34 AM, Darren Shea via Af  wrote:

> We currently host our own speedtest server using Ookla's speedtest
> technology, but Ookla is discontinuing the version we run, and
> the licensing fees for the new version are very steep. I'm looking at
> alternatives, such as OpenSpeedTest and speed.io, but would
> like to get some feedback on these if anyone is using them.
>
> We once tried using Brandon Checkett's Fancy Speed Test, but the results
> display was not really in line with what we wanted.
>
> Does anyone hosting their own, non-Ookla, speedtest server have some
> success stories or horror stories about particular packages?
>
>
> Thank you,
>   Darren
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] SNMP Monitoring or power with a Packetflux Site Monitor

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

That's the right way to do it.

If you go into the web interface and into the analog tab and put your mouse
pointer over the value for the appropriate dc input, the oid will be shown
in the lower right corner of your screen.
On Sep 24, 2014 2:43 PM, "Sam Lambie via Af"  wrote:

> I want to monitor grid power by placing a wall wort into PWR 2 on the site
> monitor. Then plug the wall wort (sp?) into the Surge side of the UPS.
>
> What OID would I use to see if there is power or NOT for SNMP queries? Or
> is there a better way to go about this?
>
> thanks
>
> Sam
>
> --
> --
> *Sam Lambie*
> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
> 575-758-7598 Office
> www.Taosnet.com 
>

Re: [AFMUG] SNMP Monitoring or power with a Packetflux Site Monitor

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Yeah, I haven't figured out how to make that happen yet.  I really wanted
to have a right click menu but that doesn't seem to be a real possibility
in most browsers.

Steve mentioned the sitemonitor manager option which does allow the right
click copy, but that requires installing software.
On Sep 24, 2014 6:17 PM, "Sam Lambie via Af"  wrote:

> Thanks. How can I be lazy and copy that pop up to copy the OID?
>
> Sam Lambie
> Wireless Internet Technician
> www.taosnet.com
> 575.758.7598
>
> On Sep 24, 2014, at 3:01 PM, "Forrest Christian \(List Account\) via Af" <
> af@afmug.com> wrote:
>
> That's the right way to do it.
>
> If you go into the web interface and into the analog tab and put your
> mouse pointer over the value for the appropriate dc input, the oid will be
> shown in the lower right corner of your screen.
> On Sep 24, 2014 2:43 PM, "Sam Lambie via Af"  wrote:
>
>> I want to monitor grid power by placing a wall wort into PWR 2 on the
>> site monitor. Then plug the wall wort (sp?) into the Surge side of the UPS.
>>
>> What OID would I use to see if there is power or NOT for SNMP queries? Or
>> is there a better way to go about this?
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> Sam
>>
>> --
>> --
>> *Sam Lambie*
>> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
>> 575-758-7598 Office
>> www.Taosnet.com <http://www.newmex.com>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] SNMP Monitoring or power with a Packetflux Site Monitor

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Hmm.  Html5 seems to perhaps have the needed pieces.  Maybe it's time to
revisit this feature in the web ui.
On Sep 25, 2014 1:17 AM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> Yeah, I haven't figured out how to make that happen yet.  I really wanted
> to have a right click menu but that doesn't seem to be a real possibility
> in most browsers.
>
> Steve mentioned the sitemonitor manager option which does allow the right
> click copy, but that requires installing software.
> On Sep 24, 2014 6:17 PM, "Sam Lambie via Af"  wrote:
>
>> Thanks. How can I be lazy and copy that pop up to copy the OID?
>>
>> Sam Lambie
>> Wireless Internet Technician
>> www.taosnet.com
>> 575.758.7598
>>
>> On Sep 24, 2014, at 3:01 PM, "Forrest Christian \(List Account\) via Af" <
>> af@afmug.com> wrote:
>>
>> That's the right way to do it.
>>
>> If you go into the web interface and into the analog tab and put your
>> mouse pointer over the value for the appropriate dc input, the oid will be
>> shown in the lower right corner of your screen.
>> On Sep 24, 2014 2:43 PM, "Sam Lambie via Af"  wrote:
>>
>>> I want to monitor grid power by placing a wall wort into PWR 2 on the
>>> site monitor. Then plug the wall wort (sp?) into the Surge side of the UPS.
>>>
>>> What OID would I use to see if there is power or NOT for SNMP queries?
>>> Or is there a better way to go about this?
>>>
>>> thanks
>>>
>>> Sam
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> *Sam Lambie*
>>> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
>>> 575-758-7598 Office
>>> www.Taosnet.com <http://www.newmex.com>
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Newbie Question

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

I want to add my 0.02

Every current generation packetflux product is warranted from all failures
regardless of the cause.  Lightning.  Water.  Random failures.  And so on.
Pretty much everything shipped within the last three or so years falls
under this. Heck, we even pay round trip shipping in the U.S.

I WANT to see them back.   Every one is specifically analyzed for the cause
of the failure and if I see more than a couple failures of a specific cause
then I make changes to address them.

As a specific example, rev c injectors often came back with a specific
trace blown on the bottom of the board.  We determined that this was being
blown by the energy from lightning strikes using that particular path to
ground in systems where the  dc power plant  was grounded.  Although the
trace was far bigger than was needed for normal use, the thousands of amps
of a lightning strike was too much for it.  A change to the board layout
has eliminated that failure mode.   I could name other similar issues which
have been taken care of as a result of failure analysis.

The current rev injectors pretty much only come back with either severe
widespread lightning damage from direct strikes (rare) or damage from water
ingress through the cables (far more often), both of which are problems
which one could argue aren't  really my problem, but I'm still looking for
solutions.
On Sep 26, 2014 8:54 AM, "Adam Moffett via Af"  wrote:

>  Strangely enough, I've had the opposite experience with reliability.
> I've had more mysterious deaths from sync injectors.haven't had a CMM
> failure in years.
>
>  You really prefer the CMM?  I use to have tons of issues with CMMs
> losing sync, losing power, dying.  It seems to me like the sync injectors
> are a fraction of the cost and are almost an 'install and forget it' type
> of product.  They just keep on working.  I actually prefer the cheaper
> version that Packetflux offers, having used both extensively.
>
> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Adam Moffett via Af 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> .also the PMP100 SyncInjector from Packetflux ought to work with
>> ePMP.  You might want the gigE version, but in the real world with a mix of
>> subscribers at different MCS levels I'm not sure how likely you are to
>> exceed 100x100.
>>
>> The CMM4 is a much more rugged beast.  It is expensive, but you are not
>> likely to go back and wish you'd bought the cheap one.
>>
>> My plan is to hook up the internal GPS and have it available, but also to
>> provide sync over power.  Once you are using GPS sync to re-use channels it
>> becomes critical that it's always working, so better to have two timing
>> sources available IMO.
>>
>>   They have built in GPS if youre on a budget, not sure why alot of
>> people are so die hard against using it
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:56 PM, Jeremy Grip via Af 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>  I’m looking at ePMP w/channel reuse from a cost-comparison standpoint.
>>> Trying to figure out how much I need to spend on GPS synch for a 4 AP/ 2
>>> channel cluster. Does it need to be a CMM4? I will want to be synching
>>> multiple POPs…
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jeremy Grip
>>> North Branch Networks,LLC
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>> All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the
>> parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you
>> can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not
>> use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Newbie Question

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

As long as each device is really receiving a correct sync pulse it should
be fine.

The problem comes from when one gps receiver at a site isn't producing the
same pulse as everyone else.   It happens far more often than one would
expect.   Personally, I am nervous whenever anyone says they are using sync
from more than one GPS per site at a time, as I've seen even good gps
receivers provide a sync pulse which is way off of the correct timing under
certain circumstances.That said, most of the time you won't see this
issue as long as each receiver is operating correctly and has good geometry
to the visible satellites.
On Sep 25, 2014 6:00 PM, "Adam Moffett via Af"  wrote:

>
> As far as I know, the PMP450 has the internal antenna, ePMP does not.  I
> can tell you that without the antenna attached, the one I had on the bench
> the other day did not see any sats.
>
> Jeremy: Yes each GPS Sync ePMP comes with a GPS antenna.  It's a magnetic
> puck type like you would stick on top of a car, but It goes onto a steel
> plate in a pocket on the top of the Cambium sector antenna.  You should buy
> one of Cambium's sectors and an AP before you consider third party antennas
> btw, the cambium one has a couple of convenient features (like the GPS
> antenna pocket) that I don't think anybody has duplicated yet.
>
> They don't all have to see the same satellites.  You can use a mix of sync
> devices.  You can change the sync source remotely via the web GUI if you
> have more than one connected.
>
> It has been asserted (I think by Packetflux) that you could get minute
> timing differences if you use two different sync sources at the same site.
> I'm not clear on how terrible of a problem that would be, but I know lots
> of people end up with a mixed bag of timing sources for one reason or
> another.  Like when you add that 5th AP but forgot that you only had a 4
> port sync injector.
>
>
>  the APs come with an antenna for GPS, but its never been clear to me
> whether there is also an internal patch
>
> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 4:31 PM, Jeremy Grip via Af  wrote:
>
>>  So would you be able to switch over to the onboard sync remotely? Do
>> you need an antenna for each AP for using it? Do you think it’s as precise
>> as using an CMM4 (or SyncPipe Deluxe w/Gig Injector) if not as robust? If
>> all POPs are sync’d with same Up/Dn ratio and max cell distance and they’re
>> talking to the same birds, is it pretty much the same?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-bounces+grip=nbnworks@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of
>> *Adam Moffett via Af
>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 25, 2014 2:55 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Newbie Question
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> .also the PMP100 SyncInjector from Packetflux ought to work with
>> ePMP.  You might want the gigE version, but in the real world with a mix of
>> subscribers at different MCS levels I'm not sure how likely you are to
>> exceed 100x100.
>>
>> The CMM4 is a much more rugged beast.  It is expensive, but you are not
>> likely to go back and wish you'd bought the cheap one.
>>
>> My plan is to hook up the internal GPS and have it available, but also to
>> provide sync over power.  Once you are using GPS sync to re-use channels it
>> becomes critical that it's always working, so better to have two timing
>> sources available IMO.
>>
>>  They have built in GPS if youre on a budget, not sure why alot of
>> people are so die hard against using it
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:56 PM, Jeremy Grip via Af 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I’m looking at ePMP w/channel reuse from a cost-comparison standpoint.
>> Trying to figure out how much I need to spend on GPS synch for a 4 AP/ 2
>> channel cluster. Does it need to be a CMM4? I will want to be synching
>> multiple POPs…
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeremy Grip
>> North Branch Networks,LLC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the
>> parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you
>> can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not
>> use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>  --
> All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the
> parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you
> can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not
> use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Newbie Question

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

That is correct.   One should also note that there are no cmm products
which do gigabit Ethernet.

The cmm4 can be purchased with a Ethernet switch but it's a separate unit.
On Sep 26, 2014 2:36 PM, "Eric Muehleisen via Af"  wrote:

> I believe the CMMmicro (CMM3) was the only CMM that contained
> hub/switches. Everything else was passthrough.
>
> On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 11:18 AM, Chuck McCown via Af 
> wrote:
>
>>   If I am not mistaken, the original CMM had a hub.
>>
>>  *From:* Mike Hammett via Af 
>> *Sent:* Friday, September 26, 2014 10:16 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Newbie Question
>>
>>  My issue with the CMM-type products is they're all switched, correct? I
>> want no layer two devices between my radio and my router.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>> --
>> *From: *"Adam Moffett via Af" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Thursday, September 25, 2014 1:54:45 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Newbie Question
>>
>>
>> .also the PMP100 SyncInjector from Packetflux ought to work with
>> ePMP.  You might want the gigE version, but in the real world with a mix of
>> subscribers at different MCS levels I'm not sure how likely you are to
>> exceed 100x100.
>>
>> The CMM4 is a much more rugged beast.  It is expensive, but you are not
>> likely to go back and wish you'd bought the cheap one.
>>
>> My plan is to hook up the internal GPS and have it available, but also to
>> provide sync over power.  Once you are using GPS sync to re-use channels it
>> becomes critical that it's always working, so better to have two timing
>> sources available IMO.
>>
>>  They have built in GPS if youre on a budget, not sure why alot of
>> people are so die hard against using it
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:56 PM, Jeremy Grip via Af 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>  I’m looking at ePMP w/channel reuse from a cost-comparison standpoint.
>>> Trying to figure out how much I need to spend on GPS synch for a 4 AP/ 2
>>> channel cluster. Does it need to be a CMM4? I will want to be synching
>>> multiple POPs…
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jeremy Grip
>>> North Branch Networks,LLC
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the
>> parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you
>> can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not
>> use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Newbie Question

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

And of course I also meant to add that for gigabit plus sync you'll have to
go to a third party.
On Sep 26, 2014 5:43 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af" <
af@afmug.com> wrote:

> That is correct.   One should also note that there are no cmm products
> which do gigabit Ethernet.
>
> The cmm4 can be purchased with a Ethernet switch but it's a separate unit.
> On Sep 26, 2014 2:36 PM, "Eric Muehleisen via Af"  wrote:
>
>> I believe the CMMmicro (CMM3) was the only CMM that contained
>> hub/switches. Everything else was passthrough.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 11:18 AM, Chuck McCown via Af 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>   If I am not mistaken, the original CMM had a hub.
>>>
>>>  *From:* Mike Hammett via Af 
>>> *Sent:* Friday, September 26, 2014 10:16 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Newbie Question
>>>
>>>  My issue with the CMM-type products is they're all switched, correct?
>>> I want no layer two devices between my radio and my router.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Adam Moffett via Af" 
>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent: *Thursday, September 25, 2014 1:54:45 PM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Newbie Question
>>>
>>>
>>> .also the PMP100 SyncInjector from Packetflux ought to work with
>>> ePMP.  You might want the gigE version, but in the real world with a mix of
>>> subscribers at different MCS levels I'm not sure how likely you are to
>>> exceed 100x100.
>>>
>>> The CMM4 is a much more rugged beast.  It is expensive, but you are not
>>> likely to go back and wish you'd bought the cheap one.
>>>
>>> My plan is to hook up the internal GPS and have it available, but also
>>> to provide sync over power.  Once you are using GPS sync to re-use channels
>>> it becomes critical that it's always working, so better to have two timing
>>> sources available IMO.
>>>
>>>  They have built in GPS if youre on a budget, not sure why alot of
>>> people are so die hard against using it
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:56 PM, Jeremy Grip via Af 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  I’m looking at ePMP w/channel reuse from a cost-comparison
>>>> standpoint. Trying to figure out how much I need to spend on GPS synch for
>>>> a 4 AP/ 2 channel cluster. Does it need to be a CMM4? I will want to be
>>>> synching multiple POPs…
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jeremy Grip
>>>> North Branch Networks,LLC
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the
>>> parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you
>>> can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not
>>> use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Newbie Question

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Exactly.  Don't toss them, send them back at our expense.

I'd have to look at the raw box cost.  And unfortunately I'm nowhere near
the computer with that info on it.
On Sep 27, 2014 12:35 AM, "That One Guy via Af"  wrote:

> does that mean i shouldnt have robbed the housing from the syncbox that
> got fried a few weeks ago by lightning and sent it to you for free loot?
>
> BTW, that housing is ideal for putting splitters inside of, how much for
> just the box with no sync?
>
> On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 12:02 AM, Jeremy Grip via Af  wrote:
>
>> I should add that all of the APs, as well as the “mobile unit” need to be
>> in the same “network”.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeremy
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-bounces+grip=nbnworks@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of
>> *Adam Moffett via Af
>> *Sent:* Friday, September 26, 2014 2:22 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Newbie Question
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> It doesn't.  He either ran it multiple times on the same map and selected
>> different AP's each time, or he imported the different maps into some other
>> software to make the composite image.
>>
>> Sorry, I asked a very vague question. I know how to create a Cartesian
>> coverage map. What setting does a different color per AP?
>>
>> Matthew Jenkins
>>
>> SmarterBroadband
>>
>> m...@sbbinc.net
>>
>> 530.272.4000
>>
>> On 09/26/2014 11:07 AM, Chuck McCown via Af wrote:
>>
>> Click  the “Cartesian Radio Coverage” button.  You may have to make it
>> visible in Options.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Matt Jenkins via Af 
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, September 26, 2014 11:47 AM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Newbie Question
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeremy,
>>
>> You said you create these maps with a cartesian in RM. What setting does
>> this?
>>
>> Matthew Jenkins
>>
>> SmarterBroadband
>>
>> m...@sbbinc.net
>>
>> 530.272.4000
>>
>> On 09/25/2014 07:07 PM, Jeremy Grip via Af wrote:
>>
>> Okay, I’ll try just embedding the image:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-bounces+grip=nbnworks@afmug.com
>> ] *On Behalf Of *Jeremy Grip via
>> Af
>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 25, 2014 10:02 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Newbie Question
>>
>>
>>
>> Sriram, that brings up my next question. The channel planning model for
>> reuse is great for Idealtown, located on a flat plain where one can permit
>> and build POPs on a tidy rectilinear grid. (This may be just west of
>> Rolling Meadows).  I wonder about the utility of channel reuse in say,
>> Realtown, where the topology is quite bumpy, forestation is patchy, and the
>> operator takes what he can get in the way of locations for POPs. This is
>> pretty much my situation, and probably plenty of other folks’ too.
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m trying to think of a broad rule set for channel planning in those
>> conditions. For instance, I’m planning to expand into an area with existing
>> structures (silos). In the attached image I’ve modeled coverage in Radio
>> Mobile with an RSSI of –66dBm or better at the SM, assuming an ePMP
>> AP/90°sector at power limit for max modulation and Force (25dBi) SMs
>> (antenna pattern is just an omni for planning purposes). Max cell radius is
>> 6km. This is over actual topology, of course, and using a publicly
>> available ground cover (clutter) database, so it should be a pretty good
>> prediction of which POP gets best signal to a given location. Each POP has
>> its own color, with some reuse where it wouldn’t be confusing. (This is
>> RM’s “combined cartesian” coverage, so there are plenty of locations where
>> more than one POP can provide better than -66, but the POP with the
>> strongest SS gets to put its color on the pixel.)
>>
>>
>>
>> Some of the POPs won’t want a full 4-sector deployment, but many,
>> probably most, will. Am I better off, generally speaking, with the
>> recommended 4-channel model, with two of the four channels on each POP (and
>> the other two channels on the adjacent POP) than I am with the two channel
>> model? And if so, would I just maintain the same azimuths for all of the
>> POPs—e.g. channel A always at 0° and 180° and C at 90°
>>
>> and 270 ° on POPs 1,3, 5…, then channel B always at 0° and 180° and D at
>> 90° and 270 ° on POPs 2,4,6…? Then maybe we could just leave out
>> unnecessary AP quadrants on POPs where they weren’t going to do any good.
>>
>>
>>
>> Is there any reason to try the ABAB reuse model if four channels are
>> available? Does the necessity of setting Frequency Reuse “Front” and “Back”
>> go away in the ABCD model—and can anyone explain just what that’s doing?
>>
>>
>>
>> Whew.
>>
>>
>>
>> Oh, yeah—can you just software switch between the GPS timing signal on
>> the (internal patch or) local GPS port and the signal on the Cat5/6 from a
>> CMM, if you want that kind of redundancy?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-bounces+grip=nbnworks@afmug.com
>> ] *On Behalf Of *Sriram
>> Chaturvedi via Af
>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 25, 2014 5:45 PM
>> *To:* Th

Re: [AFMUG] SiteMonitor: Loss of sync

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

A little out of order:

On the OID's .. you may have the wrong OID.  There is an oid for the title
strings, and an oid for the value.  You may want to check the oid you are
using.   In addition, on the strings tab, there *are* strings which list
the specific statellite and signal strength of all of the sats it is
receiving a signal from.

One more troubleshooting item is the 'pulse received' counter on the analog
tab.  It should increment once and exactly once per second.  I've had good
luck comparing this value over a specific time.  I.E. at exactly 10
minutes, there should be exactly 600 more pulses.

As far as fixing it:  I'd move the syncpipe, then try a different one.   If
a second does the same thing, then we need to look at what else might be
causing it.

If you want to send in screenshots to cust...@packetflux.com of the
boolean/analog/string tabs from the sitemonitor, I might be able to see
something.

-forrest


On Sep 29, 2014 1:40 PM, "Bill Prince via Af"  wrote:

>
> One of our many locations where we're using a Packetflux sync
> pipe/injector seems to be losing satellite lock once every few days.
> Typically it loses it for 2 to 4 seconds, but I've seen at least once where
> it went 13 seconds.
>
> I've not been able to get useful information from the SiteMonitor because
> the satellites tracked/Visible OIDs are returning a string with "Sats in
> View" and "Num Sats Used" instead of the actual values. (is that a bug or
> what? This is on F/W "Jul 29 2012").
>
> However, I'm getting messages like this in the AP logs:
>
> 09/21/2014 : 07:49:00 PDT : : Bridge Core : Loss of sync pulse from Power
> Port! No other sync source available.
> 09/21/2014 : 07:49:04 PDT : : Bridge Core : Acquired sync pulse from Power
> Port.
> 09/23/2014 : 18:49:37 PDT : : Bridge Core : Loss of sync pulse from Power
> Port! No other sync source available.
> 09/23/2014 : 18:49:41 PDT : : Bridge Core : Acquired sync pulse from Power
> Port.
> 09/23/2014 : 18:49:55 PDT : : Bridge Core : Loss of sync pulse from Power
> Port! No other sync source available.
> 09/23/2014 : 18:49:59 PDT : : Bridge Core : Acquired sync pulse from Power
> Port.
> 09/24/2014 : 18:47:15 PDT : : Bridge Core : Loss of sync pulse from Power
> Port! No other sync source available.
> 09/24/2014 : 18:47:28 PDT : : Bridge Core : Acquired sync pulse from Power
> Port.
> 09/27/2014 : 07:24:18 PDT : : Bridge Core : Loss of sync pulse from Power
> Port! No other sync source available.
> 09/27/2014 : 07:24:20 PDT : : Bridge Core : Acquired sync pulse from Power
> Port.
>
> Not sure what I might do here.  This is with all the equipment up against
> a concrete wall, so there is only a 180 degree view of the sky.  Maybe a
> little bit less than that because the wall is not flat, maybe about 170
> degree view of the sky.
>
> The APs are PMP450, and rarely get a GPS lock on the internal GPS.  Maybe
> I can try moving the sync pipe away from the wall or something.
>
>
> --
> bp
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Arson attack on FAA datacenter

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Oh yeah,

I'm in Chicago for a few days.  Flew in on thursday before this happened.
My wife flew in on Saturday and ended up with a nasty delay in MSP since
there were very very few flights flying into the affected area, which
basically includes both chicago airports, and the two airports up in
wisconsin.  Thousands of flights cancelled over the last couple of days.

That's the big news here.

-forrest

On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:24 PM, Eric Kuhnke via Af  wrote:

> Anyone see this?
>
>
> http://posttrib.suntimes.com/30167722-537/flight-delays-to-continue-after-arson.html#.VCnNuOeXtGE
>
>
> http://www.metafilter.com/143174/ATCSCC-ADVZY-020-DCC-ZAU-09-26-2014-ZAU-GROUND-STOP
>
>
>
> On Friday, ATCSCC Advisory 20 of 26-Sep-2014 went out. When operators,
> controllers and airport managers saw the title, a gasp of disbelief was
> heard. The problem was simple enough to state in three words, and complex
> enough to cancel thousand of flights and cost hundred of millions of
> dollars: ZAU ATC ZERO
> 
> .
>
> ZAU
> 
> is the call sign of the Chicago Air Rout Traffic Control Center (ARTCC),
> which covers 
> northern Illinois and Indiana, southern Wisconsin, western Iowa, and south
> eastern Michigan. There are two "sides" at an ARTCC. ZAU-LO handed traffic
> destined for airports in the covered area, ZAU-HI handled traffic
> overflying. Both were amongst the busiest in the country. ZAU-HI was busy
> with traffic from the east to west, as well as European traffic heading to
> Houston and Dallas-FW, ZAU-LO had to feed in traffic from airports like
> GYY , MKE
> , RFD
> , PIA
> ,
> and the two busiest airports in the area; Chicago Midway International
>  and O'Hare
> International
> , one of the
> busiest airports in the world.
>
> On Friday morning, Brian Howard, a contract employee of the FAA and
> holding full credentials to the ZAU datacenters, set a fire in the telecom
> room, destroying 23 of the 29
> 
> rack and disconnecting all the controller stations from the associated
> radars and radio transmitters needed to watch and guide traffic through the
> busy sector. As the consoles dropped offline, the ZAU duty manager had no
> choice -- they called ZZZ, the FAA command center
>  and reported ATC ZERO -- no
> controllers available, control center offline.
>

Re: [AFMUG] SiteMonitor: Loss of sync

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Yes that value will increment when the injector detects a loss of sync and
also when it's restored.

These are definitely good values to monitor, and I know at least one
customer which does as you suggest and monitors for a non zero value and
resets the value to zero to clear the error.
On Sep 29, 2014 7:23 PM, "Bill Prince via Af"  wrote:

>  Yeah.  Not sure why I thought the index name was where I would get the
> value.  The OID that shows in the UI for the Satellites Visible is:
>
> .1.3.6.1.4.1.32050.2.1.28.2.1
>
> The OID for the actual value is
>
> .1.3.6.1.4.1.32050.2.1.28.5.1
>
>
> So I was able to fix that part.  What I'm wondering is how to know that
> We've had a loss in sync.  There is something under Binary I/O called "1PPS
> Active".
>
> Seeing as we only poll once every 5 minutes, catching that going to zero
> seems slim to none.  However, I am intrigued by the "Events" value.  Does
> that increment every time the Syncpipe loses sync?  In which case, I can
> zero it out, and set a threshold for whenever it is non-zero (see below).
>
>
> I may try that.
>
>
> bp
>
> On 9/29/2014 1:28 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af wrote:
>
>  A little out of order:
>
>  On the OID's .. you may have the wrong OID.  There is an oid for the
> title strings, and an oid for the value.  You may want to check the oid you
> are using.   In addition, on the strings tab, there *are* strings which
> list the specific statellite and signal strength of all of the sats it is
> receiving a signal from.
>
>  One more troubleshooting item is the 'pulse received' counter on the
> analog tab.  It should increment once and exactly once per second.  I've
> had good luck comparing this value over a specific time.  I.E. at exactly
> 10 minutes, there should be exactly 600 more pulses.
>
>  As far as fixing it:  I'd move the syncpipe, then try a different one.
> If a second does the same thing, then we need to look at what else might be
> causing it.
>
>  If you want to send in screenshots to cust...@packetflux.com of the
> boolean/analog/string tabs from the sitemonitor, I might be able to see
> something.
>
> -forrest
>
>
> On Sep 29, 2014 1:40 PM, "Bill Prince via Af"  wrote:
>
>>
>> One of our many locations where we're using a Packetflux sync
>> pipe/injector seems to be losing satellite lock once every few days.
>> Typically it loses it for 2 to 4 seconds, but I've seen at least once where
>> it went 13 seconds.
>>
>> I've not been able to get useful information from the SiteMonitor because
>> the satellites tracked/Visible OIDs are returning a string with "Sats in
>> View" and "Num Sats Used" instead of the actual values. (is that a bug or
>> what? This is on F/W "Jul 29 2012").
>>
>> However, I'm getting messages like this in the AP logs:
>>
>> 09/21/2014 : 07:49:00 PDT : : Bridge Core : Loss of sync pulse from Power
>> Port! No other sync source available.
>> 09/21/2014 : 07:49:04 PDT : : Bridge Core : Acquired sync pulse from
>> Power Port.
>> 09/23/2014 : 18:49:37 PDT : : Bridge Core : Loss of sync pulse from Power
>> Port! No other sync source available.
>> 09/23/2014 : 18:49:41 PDT : : Bridge Core : Acquired sync pulse from
>> Power Port.
>> 09/23/2014 : 18:49:55 PDT : : Bridge Core : Loss of sync pulse from Power
>> Port! No other sync source available.
>> 09/23/2014 : 18:49:59 PDT : : Bridge Core : Acquired sync pulse from
>> Power Port.
>> 09/24/2014 : 18:47:15 PDT : : Bridge Core : Loss of sync pulse from Power
>> Port! No other sync source available.
>> 09/24/2014 : 18:47:28 PDT : : Bridge Core : Acquired sync pulse from
>> Power Port.
>> 09/27/2014 : 07:24:18 PDT : : Bridge Core : Loss of sync pulse from Power
>> Port! No other sync source available.
>> 09/27/2014 : 07:24:20 PDT : : Bridge Core : Acquired sync pulse from
>> Power Port.
>>
>> Not sure what I might do here.  This is with all the equipment up against
>> a concrete wall, so there is only a 180 degree view of the sky.  Maybe a
>> little bit less than that because the wall is not flat, maybe about 170
>> degree view of the sky.
>>
>> The APs are PMP450, and rarely get a GPS lock on the internal GPS.  Maybe
>> I can try moving the sync pipe away from the wall or something.
>>
>>
>> --
>> bp
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 48Vdc DC to DC (regulator)

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

You want a meanwell RSD series converter.   Rsd-200c-48 I believe will work
depending on load.

In the part number:
200 is the wattage.
C is the input voltage.
48 is the output.

You'll want to double check but the part number I provided should be a 200w
48 to 48 supply.  There are ones available with different wattage and input
and output voltages.
On Oct 2, 2014 2:50 PM, "Sean Heskett via Af"  wrote:

> Hi Gang,
>
> We have a 48Vdc Solar site that the solar charge controller when it goes
> into absorption mode the battery array voltage exceeds 60Vdc.  However we
> have some equipment that doesn't like more than 60Vdc.
>
> What product are you using to supply a clean 48Vdc (no more that 300 Watts
> is needed)
>
> Thanks!
>
> -sean
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 48Vdc DC to DC (regulator)

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Correct absorption charge for an AGM  48v battery array at freezing is
around 61v.  (15.3v per 12v battery)
On Oct 2, 2014 8:16 PM, "Sean Heskett via Af"  wrote:

> I think it might be because it's cold here now and the charger compensates
> for battery temp.
>
> I'll check the controller manual again tho because I thought that voltage was
> high too.
>
>
>
> On Thursday, October 2, 2014, Eric Kuhnke via Af  wrote:
>
>> 60V seems high, copied verbatim from the datasheet for a typical
>> powersonic 12V AGM battery (12V):
>>
>> Limit initial current to 1.2A. Charge until battery voltage
>> (under charge) reaches 14.4 to 14.7 volts at 68°F (20°C). Hold at 14.4 to
>> 14.7
>> volts until current drops to under 50mA. Battery is fully charged under
>> these
>> conditions, and charger should be disconnected or switched to “float”
>> voltage.
>> “Float” or “Stand-By” Service:
>> Hold battery across constant voltage source of
>> 13.5 to 13.8 volts continuously. When held at this voltage, the battery
>> will seek its
>> own current level and maintain itself in a fully charged condition
>>
>>
>>
>> so multiply by four, 14.4V x 4 = 57.6V max voltage at absorption charging
>>
>> or 14.7V x 4 = 58.8V
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Bill Prince via Af  wrote:
>>
>>> Many new solar controllers will let you program the absorption voltage.
>>> We just started using an MPPT controller from Midnite solar, and all the
>>> different voltages are programmable per the battery manufacturer's
>>> specification.
>>>
>>> bp
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/2/2014 12:50 PM, Sean Heskett via Af wrote:
>>>
 Hi Gang,

 We have a 48Vdc Solar site that the solar charge controller when it
 goes into absorption mode the battery array voltage exceeds 60Vdc.  However
 we have some equipment that doesn't like more than 60Vdc.

 What product are you using to supply a clean 48Vdc (no more that 300
 Watts is needed)

 Thanks!

 -sean


>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] SiteMonitor: Loss of sync

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

There are several rules in the current GPS chipset about whether or not it
can produce sync.  If you have 4 they can definitely produce sync.   Less
than 4 is somewhat hit or miss depending on the exact orientation of the
satellites, and often more miss than hit.   I don't really have control
over this algorithm so I can't be more specific.

If you can move that one slightly so it's getting on average 1-2 more sats
tracked, then your problem should go away.

-forrest


On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 2:38 PM, Bill Prince via Af  wrote:

>  Monitoring Sync Events works.  Had to wait 5 days for it to happen, but
> the counter increment corresponds to a loss of sync we had yesterday.
>
> I found this in the AP event log (event of interest in blue):
>
> 09/27/2014 : 07:24:19 PDT : : Bridge Core : Loss of sync pulse from Power
> Port! No other sync source available.
> 09/27/2014 : 07:24:23 PDT : : Bridge Core : Acquired sync pulse from Power
> Port.
> 10/02/2014 : 12:21:45 PDT : : Bridge Core : Loss of sync pulse from Power
> Port! No other sync source available.
> 10/02/2014 : 12:21:51 PDT : : Bridge Core : Acquired sync pulse from Power
> Port.
>
> We also monitor visible/tracked satellites on that SiteMonitor.
> Interestingly, the satellites tracked at about that time was 4 (see marked
> up graph below).  I suppose it's possible that the tracked satellites went
> to zero one minute (or less) after the SNMP poll, but it seems rather weird.
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the SiteMonitor only needed one
> satellite to maintain timing after it acquired a 3D fix?
>
>
>  bp
>
> On 9/29/2014 10:12 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af wrote:
>
> Yes that value will increment when the injector detects a loss of sync and
> also when it's restored.
>
> These are definitely good values to monitor, and I know at least one
> customer which does as you suggest and monitors for a non zero value and
> resets the value to zero to clear the error.
> On Sep 29, 2014 7:23 PM, "Bill Prince via Af"  wrote:
>
>>  Yeah.  Not sure why I thought the index name was where I would get the
>> value.  The OID that shows in the UI for the Satellites Visible is:
>>
>> .1.3.6.1.4.1.32050.2.1.28.2.1
>>
>> The OID for the actual value is
>>
>> .1.3.6.1.4.1.32050.2.1.28.5.1
>>
>>
>> So I was able to fix that part.  What I'm wondering is how to know that
>> We've had a loss in sync.  There is something under Binary I/O called "1PPS
>> Active".
>>
>> Seeing as we only poll once every 5 minutes, catching that going to zero
>> seems slim to none.  However, I am intrigued by the "Events" value.  Does
>> that increment every time the Syncpipe loses sync?  In which case, I can
>> zero it out, and set a threshold for whenever it is non-zero (see below).
>>
>>
>> I may try that.
>>
>>
>> bp
>>
>> On 9/29/2014 1:28 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af wrote:
>>
>>  A little out of order:
>>
>>  On the OID's .. you may have the wrong OID.  There is an oid for the
>> title strings, and an oid for the value.  You may want to check the oid you
>> are using.   In addition, on the strings tab, there *are* strings which
>> list the specific statellite and signal strength of all of the sats it is
>> receiving a signal from.
>>
>>  One more troubleshooting item is the 'pulse received' counter on the
>> analog tab.  It should increment once and exactly once per second.  I've
>> had good luck comparing this value over a specific time.  I.E. at exactly
>> 10 minutes, there should be exactly 600 more pulses.
>>
>>  As far as fixing it:  I'd move the syncpipe, then try a different
>> one.   If a second does the same thing, then we need to look at what else
>> might be causing it.
>>
>>  If you want to send in screenshots to cust...@packetflux.com of the
>> boolean/analog/string tabs from the sitemonitor, I might be able to see
>> something.
>>
>> -forrest
>>
>>
>> On Sep 29, 2014 1:40 PM, "Bill Prince via Af"  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> One of our many locations where we're using a Packetflux sync
>>> pipe/injector seems to be losing satellite lock once every few days.
>>> Typically it loses it for 2 to 4 seconds, but I've seen at least once where
>>> it went 13 seconds.
>>>
>>> I've not been able to get useful information from the SiteMonitor
>>> because the satellites tracked/Visible OIDs are returning a string with
>>> "Sats in View" a

Re: [AFMUG] SiteMonitor: Loss of sync

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

It's hard to guess definitively, but I'd start there.   Ideally, sticking
it above the roofline would be even better.

-forrest

On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Bill Prince via Af  wrote:

>  So you think moving it a foot or so out from the wall might help?
>
> bp
>
> On 10/3/2014 3:33 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af wrote:
>
> There are several rules in the current GPS chipset about whether or not it
> can produce sync.  If you have 4 they can definitely produce sync.   Less
> than 4 is somewhat hit or miss depending on the exact orientation of the
> satellites, and often more miss than hit.   I don't really have control
> over this algorithm so I can't be more specific.
>
>  If you can move that one slightly so it's getting on average 1-2 more
> sats tracked, then your problem should go away.
>
>  -forrest
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 2:38 PM, Bill Prince via Af  wrote:
>
>>  Monitoring Sync Events works.  Had to wait 5 days for it to happen, but
>> the counter increment corresponds to a loss of sync we had yesterday.
>>
>> I found this in the AP event log (event of interest in blue):
>>
>> 09/27/2014 : 07:24:19 PDT : : Bridge Core : Loss of sync pulse from Power
>> Port! No other sync source available.
>> 09/27/2014 : 07:24:23 PDT : : Bridge Core : Acquired sync pulse from
>> Power Port.
>> 10/02/2014 : 12:21:45 PDT : : Bridge Core : Loss of sync pulse from Power
>> Port! No other sync source available.
>> 10/02/2014 : 12:21:51 PDT : : Bridge Core : Acquired sync pulse from
>> Power Port.
>>
>> We also monitor visible/tracked satellites on that SiteMonitor.
>> Interestingly, the satellites tracked at about that time was 4 (see marked
>> up graph below).  I suppose it's possible that the tracked satellites went
>> to zero one minute (or less) after the SNMP poll, but it seems rather weird.
>>
>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the SiteMonitor only needed one
>> satellite to maintain timing after it acquired a 3D fix?
>>
>>
>>  bp
>>
>>  On 9/29/2014 10:12 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af wrote:
>>
>> Yes that value will increment when the injector detects a loss of sync
>> and also when it's restored.
>>
>> These are definitely good values to monitor, and I know at least one
>> customer which does as you suggest and monitors for a non zero value and
>> resets the value to zero to clear the error.
>>   On Sep 29, 2014 7:23 PM, "Bill Prince via Af"  wrote:
>>
>>>  Yeah.  Not sure why I thought the index name was where I would get the
>>> value.  The OID that shows in the UI for the Satellites Visible is:
>>>
>>> .1.3.6.1.4.1.32050.2.1.28.2.1
>>>
>>> The OID for the actual value is
>>>
>>> .1.3.6.1.4.1.32050.2.1.28.5.1
>>>
>>>
>>> So I was able to fix that part.  What I'm wondering is how to know that
>>> We've had a loss in sync.  There is something under Binary I/O called "1PPS
>>> Active".
>>>
>>> Seeing as we only poll once every 5 minutes, catching that going to zero
>>> seems slim to none.  However, I am intrigued by the "Events" value.  Does
>>> that increment every time the Syncpipe loses sync?  In which case, I can
>>> zero it out, and set a threshold for whenever it is non-zero (see below).
>>>
>>>
>>> I may try that.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>>
>>> On 9/29/2014 1:28 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af wrote:
>>>
>>>  A little out of order:
>>>
>>>  On the OID's .. you may have the wrong OID.  There is an oid for the
>>> title strings, and an oid for the value.  You may want to check the oid you
>>> are using.   In addition, on the strings tab, there *are* strings which
>>> list the specific statellite and signal strength of all of the sats it is
>>> receiving a signal from.
>>>
>>>  One more troubleshooting item is the 'pulse received' counter on the
>>> analog tab.  It should increment once and exactly once per second.  I've
>>> had good luck comparing this value over a specific time.  I.E. at exactly
>>> 10 minutes, there should be exactly 600 more pulses.
>>>
>>>  As far as fixing it:  I'd move the syncpipe, then try a different
>>> one.   If a second does the same thing, then we need to look at what else
>>> might be causing it.
>>>
>>>  If you want to send in screenshots to cust...@packetflux.com

[AFMUG] PacketFlux Product Ideas

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

It's been (quite) a while since I sent one of these messages out to the
list.

With the release of all of our new gigabit injectors, it is time for me to
decide which products will be next out the door at PacketFlux.

We've got several products at various stages of completion, but almost all
of them I expect to be very low volume projects - the type of products we
complete just because they help fill out our product offering instead of
expecting a lot of revenue from them.   A couple of these have appeared on
the website recently - I.E. a 2 Relay, 3 Switch module, and the
voltmeter/shunt input modules.

So, what I'd love to hear is some suggestions for products PacketFlux could
build which would help you in your WISP.   I'm particularly looking for
products which if they existed would go at every one of your tower sites,
or even better at every customer location.  I know these product ideas
exist out there, and I'd love to hear them.   Feel free to throw ideas out
which are outside of the narrow niche that you think of PacketFlux fitting
into.

One final note  - there is always a query for an all-in-one tower device
which includes some mixture of ac power supply, dc-dc conversion, battery
charging/management, Ethernet switch, router, power injection, fiber
conversion, etc..   I've heard those loud and clear and am aware of that
desire.   There's work being done in-house toward something like that, but
there are many hurdles left to make it a reality.  If there's a simplified
version of this which would fit a specific, widespread, need I'd love to
hear about it, but the idea of a device you put into your rack and it
handles everything needed at a tower site is still quite a ways off for us.

So, throw your best ideas out there... I'd love to take a couple and run
with them.

-forrest

[AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Following up on the previous email about product ideas, I have an idea for
a product which at least I think would be really cool, but I also think
would likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent cost sensitivity
of installs.

It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the power injector at
customer sites with more of an intelligent device.   One that provides
functionality like traffic metering, cable diagnostics, customer-location
speed tests, and so on.   The unit would have jacks for the radio, the
customer equipment, and power.   It would also have a display which shows
real-time usage data for the customer to be able to determine for
themselves what their current internet consumption is.   There are a lot of
natural outgrowths from this such as watchdog reset of the radio itself,
automatic problem notification to the WISP, etc.   My goal would be to
instrument this as much as possible.

If you think of this as a 'smart power meter' for internet, with diagnostic
tools built in, then you've got the basic idea.  This is not intended to
replace the customer router/nat device, and will only be a Layer 2 device
as far as traffic goes.  There will likely be some limited traffic shaping
possible based on the underlying ethernet swtich chipset.

Unfortunately, these can't be a $20 device.   $75 might be doable for
higher volumes, but $100 is more in the comfort zone for the volumes I
typically move.  Of course, this is a CPE device and I'm not even sure how
many I'd sell so these prices are guesses at best - but more likely to go
down instead of up.

Although I suspect most people would love to have one of these at each
install, I have a hard time believing that most people would swallow adding
even $75 to the cost of each install, let alone the $100 which might be the
price I'd have to hit for lower volume.   Is this a fair assumption?  Would
you add such a device to each install?

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

I guess the other question I should have asked is "If $75 isn't doable,
what price target do I have to meet to make it doable?".

I don't have a straightforward way to get below the $75 price today, but I
don't really even have a idea what the ideal target price would be.

I've also considered adding surge supression to this to help soften the
blow, but then you have the challenge that surge supression should be
outside the home, and power injection should be inside.

-forrest

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Chris Fabien via Af  wrote:

> I'd say you are correct. Would love to have the functionality but even at
> $75 I couldn't justify the cost.
> On Oct 5, 2014 5:08 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af" <
> af@afmug.com> wrote:
>
>> Following up on the previous email about product ideas, I have an idea
>> for a product which at least I think would be really cool, but I also think
>> would likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent cost sensitivity
>> of installs.
>>
>> It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the power injector at
>> customer sites with more of an intelligent device.   One that provides
>> functionality like traffic metering, cable diagnostics, customer-location
>> speed tests, and so on.   The unit would have jacks for the radio, the
>> customer equipment, and power.   It would also have a display which shows
>> real-time usage data for the customer to be able to determine for
>> themselves what their current internet consumption is.   There are a lot of
>> natural outgrowths from this such as watchdog reset of the radio itself,
>> automatic problem notification to the WISP, etc.   My goal would be to
>> instrument this as much as possible.
>>
>> If you think of this as a 'smart power meter' for internet, with
>> diagnostic tools built in, then you've got the basic idea.  This is not
>> intended to replace the customer router/nat device, and will only be a
>> Layer 2 device as far as traffic goes.  There will likely be some limited
>> traffic shaping possible based on the underlying ethernet swtich chipset.
>>
>> Unfortunately, these can't be a $20 device.   $75 might be doable for
>> higher volumes, but $100 is more in the comfort zone for the volumes I
>> typically move.  Of course, this is a CPE device and I'm not even sure how
>> many I'd sell so these prices are guesses at best - but more likely to go
>> down instead of up.
>>
>> Although I suspect most people would love to have one of these at each
>> install, I have a hard time believing that most people would swallow adding
>> even $75 to the cost of each install, let alone the $100 which might be the
>> price I'd have to hit for lower volume.   Is this a fair assumption?  Would
>> you add such a device to each install?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

That's sort of the thought process I was headed towards.   With my
preference to not entering that already way too crowded market.   There are
already three vendors that I know of in that space, and I don't feel like
trying to compete with the vendors that have way more volume than I could
attain.

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 3:35 PM, Keefe John via Af  wrote:

> The only way to make this price doable is if it is a router too like
> Netonix's new device.
>
> Keefe
>
>
> On 10/5/2014 4:08 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af wrote:
>
>> Following up on the previous email about product ideas, I have an idea
>> for a product which at least I think would be really cool, but I also think
>> would likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent cost sensitivity
>> of installs.
>>
>> It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the power injector at
>> customer sites with more of an intelligent device.   One that provides
>> functionality like traffic metering, cable diagnostics, customer-location
>> speed tests, and so on.   The unit would have jacks for the radio, the
>> customer equipment, and power.   It would also have a display which shows
>> real-time usage data for the customer to be able to determine for
>> themselves what their current internet consumption is. There are a lot of
>> natural outgrowths from this such as watchdog reset of the radio itself,
>> automatic problem notification to the WISP, etc.   My goal would be to
>> instrument this as much as possible.
>>
>> If you think of this as a 'smart power meter' for internet, with
>> diagnostic tools built in, then you've got the basic idea.  This is not
>> intended to replace the customer router/nat device, and will only be a
>> Layer 2 device as far as traffic goes.  There will likely be some limited
>> traffic shaping possible based on the underlying ethernet swtich chipset.
>>
>> Unfortunately, these can't be a $20 device.   $75 might be doable for
>> higher volumes, but $100 is more in the comfort zone for the volumes I
>> typically move.  Of course, this is a CPE device and I'm not even sure how
>> many I'd sell so these prices are guesses at best - but more likely to go
>> down instead of up.
>>
>> Although I suspect most people would love to have one of these at each
>> install, I have a hard time believing that most people would swallow adding
>> even $75 to the cost of each install, let alone the $100 which might be the
>> price I'd have to hit for lower volume.   Is this a fair assumption?  Would
>> you add such a device to each install?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

That's sort of the thought process I was headed towards.   With my
preference to not entering that already way too crowded market.   There are
already three vendors in that space, and I don't feel like trying to
compete with the vendors that have way more volume than I could attain.

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 3:35 PM, Keefe John via Af  wrote:

> The only way to make this price doable is if it is a router too like
> Netonix's new device.
>
> Keefe
>
>
> On 10/5/2014 4:08 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af wrote:
>
>> Following up on the previous email about product ideas, I have an idea
>> for a product which at least I think would be really cool, but I also think
>> would likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent cost sensitivity
>> of installs.
>>
>> It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the power injector at
>> customer sites with more of an intelligent device.   One that provides
>> functionality like traffic metering, cable diagnostics, customer-location
>> speed tests, and so on.   The unit would have jacks for the radio, the
>> customer equipment, and power.   It would also have a display which shows
>> real-time usage data for the customer to be able to determine for
>> themselves what their current internet consumption is. There are a lot of
>> natural outgrowths from this such as watchdog reset of the radio itself,
>> automatic problem notification to the WISP, etc.   My goal would be to
>> instrument this as much as possible.
>>
>> If you think of this as a 'smart power meter' for internet, with
>> diagnostic tools built in, then you've got the basic idea.  This is not
>> intended to replace the customer router/nat device, and will only be a
>> Layer 2 device as far as traffic goes.  There will likely be some limited
>> traffic shaping possible based on the underlying ethernet swtich chipset.
>>
>> Unfortunately, these can't be a $20 device.   $75 might be doable for
>> higher volumes, but $100 is more in the comfort zone for the volumes I
>> typically move.  Of course, this is a CPE device and I'm not even sure how
>> many I'd sell so these prices are guesses at best - but more likely to go
>> down instead of up.
>>
>> Although I suspect most people would love to have one of these at each
>> install, I have a hard time believing that most people would swallow adding
>> even $75 to the cost of each install, let alone the $100 which might be the
>> price I'd have to hit for lower volume.   Is this a fair assumption?  Would
>> you add such a device to each install?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

That was one of the three vendors that I was counting when I said there
were already three vendors I know of in that space.

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Paul McCall via Af  wrote:

>  Why not use a Mikrotik router with the POE out option ?
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Forrest Christian
> (List Account) via Af
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 05, 2014 5:44 PM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity
>
>
>
> That's sort of the thought process I was headed towards.   With my
> preference to not entering that already way too crowded market.   There are
> already three vendors that I know of in that space, and I don't feel like
> trying to compete with the vendors that have way more volume than I could
> attain.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 3:35 PM, Keefe John via Af  wrote:
>
> The only way to make this price doable is if it is a router too like
> Netonix's new device.
>
> Keefe
>
>
>
> On 10/5/2014 4:08 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af wrote:
>
> Following up on the previous email about product ideas, I have an idea for
> a product which at least I think would be really cool, but I also think
> would likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent cost sensitivity
> of installs.
>
> It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the power injector at
> customer sites with more of an intelligent device.   One that provides
> functionality like traffic metering, cable diagnostics, customer-location
> speed tests, and so on.   The unit would have jacks for the radio, the
> customer equipment, and power.   It would also have a display which shows
> real-time usage data for the customer to be able to determine for
> themselves what their current internet consumption is. There are a lot of
> natural outgrowths from this such as watchdog reset of the radio itself,
> automatic problem notification to the WISP, etc.   My goal would be to
> instrument this as much as possible.
>
> If you think of this as a 'smart power meter' for internet, with
> diagnostic tools built in, then you've got the basic idea.  This is not
> intended to replace the customer router/nat device, and will only be a
> Layer 2 device as far as traffic goes.  There will likely be some limited
> traffic shaping possible based on the underlying ethernet swtich chipset.
>
> Unfortunately, these can't be a $20 device.   $75 might be doable for
> higher volumes, but $100 is more in the comfort zone for the volumes I
> typically move.  Of course, this is a CPE device and I'm not even sure how
> many I'd sell so these prices are guesses at best - but more likely to go
> down instead of up.
>
> Although I suspect most people would love to have one of these at each
> install, I have a hard time believing that most people would swallow adding
> even $75 to the cost of each install, let alone the $100 which might be the
> price I'd have to hit for lower volume.   Is this a fair assumption?  Would
> you add such a device to each install?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] PacketFlux Product Ideas

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Let's talk about the first one, which I agree would be cool.

My gut feeling is that by the time I priced this correctly - meaning to
have a fairly high likelihood of recovering R&D and production costs we'd
be in the neighborhood of around $500.  If we limited the functionality to
just some sort of alignment readout without all of the programming, then I
might guess more around $250.

Is this worth $250 or $500?   How would you handle updates?  Free?  Cost
for each new platform?

The microwave alignment tool we did was the equivalent of putting our toe
into this market.  Our experience there makes me wonder if this is a market
which actually has any meaningful, ongoing, revenue stream.   I really
would like to sell tools, but I'm going to need some convincing (which is
what I'm trying to ask for here).

We've done about 3-4 prototype designs in house for various pieces of what
you are talking about.   Some worked better than others.  Heck, we
displayed one at the first Animal Farm.   But none have made it to market
just because of the high front-end costs.  I suspect that this is also what
is keeping several of the prototypes which have been displayed at various
times from becoming a product as well.

So convince me.

In relation to the other item...  have you considered clipping the tab?

-forrest

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 2:51 PM, TJ Trout via Af  wrote:

> I would really like to see a installation device that has a LCD and
> speaker and headphone jack, has it's own internal lithium battery with poe
> output AND lan port for a laptop, can speak SNMP or http or whatever with
> Ubiquiti and Canopy/Epmp and allows you to do basic configuration in the
> field and also has stored config files for fast SM programming, once
> programmed it acts like an alignment tool with LCD that's sun viewable and
> also audio out of the speaker... Does multiple POE outputs either by
> setting or automatically.
>
> I would also like to see a RJ45 lock in device that allows us to lock
> patch cables into the POE/Router/Computer, etc to keep customers from
> unplugging Ethernet cables and mixing them up! I know this is already out
> on the market but $5 each is crazy.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Matt Jenkins via Af  wrote:
>
>> Our infrastructure sites look like this:
>>
>> Shielded Cables -> 8 or 24port shielded patch panel
>> -> APC PRM24 with WB Surge Modules
>> -> PoE Injectors
>> -> Switch / Router
>>
>> PoE Injectors are attached to a Masterswitch.
>>
>>
>> 
>> I know this probably is not feasible but
>> What I would REALLY like is an active PoE midspan injector (8/24 gigabit
>> port). Something that does not require a site monitor (has web/snmp
>> function built in). It takes AC power and can output DC to each type of
>> device. This device would be software configurable for power type and has
>> apc masterswitch functionality. It would need to support up to 150watt per
>> port for WiMAX and Licensed Link Radios. It would need to support from
>> 12vdc to 56vdc output. If there was a model that also supported power out
>> to a few (4) AC outlets I wouldn't even need an APC Masterswitch. The goal
>> is to replace all those PoE injectors which don't mount in a rack or on a
>> din rail in a box.
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> Matthew Jenkins
>> SmarterBroadband
>> m...@sbbinc.net
>> 530.272.4000
>>
>>
>> On 10/05/2014 01:19 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af wrote:
>>
>>> It's been (quite) a while since I sent one of these messages out to the
>>> list.
>>>
>>> With the release of all of our new gigabit injectors, it is time for me
>>> to decide which products will be next out the door at PacketFlux.
>>>
>>> We've got several products at various stages of completion, but almost
>>> all of them I expect to be very low volume projects - the type of products
>>> we complete just because they help fill out our product offering instead of
>>> expecting a lot of revenue from them.   A couple of these have appeared on
>>> the website recently - I.E. a 2 Relay, 3 Switch module, and the
>>> voltmeter/shunt input modules.
>>>
>>> So, what I'd love to hear is some suggestions for products PacketFlux
>>> could build which would help you in your WISP. I'm particularly looking for
>>> products which if they existed would go at every one of your tower sites,
>>> or even better at every customer location.  I know these product ideas
>>> exist out there, and I'd love to hear them.   Feel free to throw ideas out

Re: [AFMUG] PacketFlux Product Ideas

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Hmm.. your first suggestion sounds oddly familar.

Some of the next two are in the works.  Nothing ready to announce in this
public of forum.   But think tower-side control.  And more i/o types.

The last four... well, now those would be popular, wouldn't they?

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 4:51 PM, Chuck McCown via Af  wrote:

>   How about an all-in-one tower device which includes some mixture of ac
> power supply, dc-dc conversion, battery charging/management, Ethernet
> switch, router, power injection with fiber conversion.
>
> Seriously, I  would  think that if you adopted some of  features RMS has
> that you do not have it could  help.
>
> Perhaps a watchdog feature the cycles the power to the AP if it cannot
> ping google for 15 minutes.  I dunno, just brainstorming a bit.  I
> personally always want more telemetry,  more voltage inputs.  More
> isolation on the voltage inputs.
>
> Solar charge controller built into some of your other stuff?
>
> Competitor jammer.
> Pan tilt rifle remote.
> Active denial  transmitter.
> AP seeking missile launcher.
>
>  *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af 
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 05, 2014 2:19 PM
> *To:* af 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] PacketFlux Product Ideas
>
>  It's been (quite) a while since I sent one of these messages out to the
> list.
>
> With the release of all of our new gigabit injectors, it is time for me to
> decide which products will be next out the door at PacketFlux.
>
> We've got several products at various stages of completion, but almost all
> of them I expect to be very low volume projects - the type of products we
> complete just because they help fill out our product offering instead of
> expecting a lot of revenue from them.   A couple of these have appeared on
> the website recently - I.E. a 2 Relay, 3 Switch module, and the
> voltmeter/shunt input modules.
>
> So, what I'd love to hear is some suggestions for products PacketFlux
> could build which would help you in your WISP.   I'm particularly looking
> for products which if they existed would go at every one of your tower
> sites, or even better at every customer location.  I know these product
> ideas exist out there, and I'd love to hear them.   Feel free to throw
> ideas out which are outside of the narrow niche that you think of
> PacketFlux fitting into.
>
> One final note  - there is always a query for an all-in-one tower device
> which includes some mixture of ac power supply, dc-dc conversion, battery
> charging/management, Ethernet switch, router, power injection, fiber
> conversion, etc..   I've heard those loud and clear and am aware of that
> desire.   There's work being done in-house toward something like that, but
> there are many hurdles left to make it a reality.  If there's a simplified
> version of this which would fit a specific, widespread, need I'd love to
> hear about it, but the idea of a device you put into your rack and it
> handles everything needed at a tower site is still quite a ways off for us.
>
> So, throw your best ideas out there... I'd love to take a couple and run
> with them.
>
> -forrest
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] PacketFlux Product Ideas

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

How would this work?   You mean something like a 3 port ethernet switch?
I.E. for a radio and a AP?

Trying to understand the use and logic here...

-forrest

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 5:06 PM, timothy steele via Af  wrote:

> Somthing easy to make that gets asked for on the list I noticed would be a
> POE Y cable that would allow you to put 2 radios on a customers house/tower
> with only 1 cable going into the house
>
> —
> Sent from Mailbox <https://www.dropbox.com/mailbox>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 6:51 PM, Chuck McCown via Af  wrote:
>
>>  How about an all-in-one tower device which includes some mixture of ac
>> power supply, dc-dc conversion, battery charging/management, Ethernet
>> switch, router, power injection with fiber conversion.
>>
>> Seriously, I  would  think that if you adopted some of  features RMS has
>> that you do not have it could  help.
>>
>> Perhaps a watchdog feature the cycles the power to the AP if it cannot
>> ping google for 15 minutes.  I dunno, just brainstorming a bit.  I
>> personally always want more telemetry,  more voltage inputs.  More
>> isolation on the voltage inputs.
>>
>> Solar charge controller built into some of your other stuff?
>>
>> Competitor jammer.
>> Pan tilt rifle remote.
>> Active denial  transmitter.
>> AP seeking missile launcher.
>>
>>  *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af 
>>  *Sent:* Sunday, October 05, 2014 2:19 PM
>>  *To:* af 
>>  *Subject:* [AFMUG] PacketFlux Product Ideas
>>
>>  It's been (quite) a while since I sent one of these messages out to the
>> list.
>>
>> With the release of all of our new gigabit injectors, it is time for me
>> to decide which products will be next out the door at PacketFlux.
>>
>> We've got several products at various stages of completion, but almost
>> all of them I expect to be very low volume projects - the type of products
>> we complete just because they help fill out our product offering instead of
>> expecting a lot of revenue from them.   A couple of these have appeared on
>> the website recently - I.E. a 2 Relay, 3 Switch module, and the
>> voltmeter/shunt input modules.
>>
>> So, what I'd love to hear is some suggestions for products PacketFlux
>> could build which would help you in your WISP.   I'm particularly looking
>> for products which if they existed would go at every one of your tower
>> sites, or even better at every customer location.  I know these product
>> ideas exist out there, and I'd love to hear them.   Feel free to throw
>> ideas out which are outside of the narrow niche that you think of
>> PacketFlux fitting into.
>>
>> One final note  - there is always a query for an all-in-one tower device
>> which includes some mixture of ac power supply, dc-dc conversion, battery
>> charging/management, Ethernet switch, router, power injection, fiber
>> conversion, etc..   I've heard those loud and clear and am aware of that
>> desire.   There's work being done in-house toward something like that, but
>> there are many hurdles left to make it a reality.  If there's a simplified
>> version of this which would fit a specific, widespread, need I'd love to
>> hear about it, but the idea of a device you put into your rack and it
>> handles everything needed at a tower site is still quite a ways off for us.
>>
>> So, throw your best ideas out there... I'd love to take a couple and run
>> with them.
>>
>> -forrest
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] PacketFlux Product Ideas

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

This is actually in the category of what I'm expending a fair bit of R&D on
right now.

The challenge comes cost.   150watt per port is very expensive to do when
factoring in the DC-DC conversion.   20W is  easy.  50W is a bit harder.
 150W gets very expensive quickly.

As a result, I'm thinking somewhat modular, i.e. pick/choose.

I also have to be mindful of the competitors in the space, in that I want
to be different in the right ways.   The power injection/switching space is
quite crowded.

-forrest

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Matt Jenkins via Af  wrote:

> Our infrastructure sites look like this:
>
> Shielded Cables -> 8 or 24port shielded patch panel
> -> APC PRM24 with WB Surge Modules
> -> PoE Injectors
> -> Switch / Router
>
> PoE Injectors are attached to a Masterswitch.
>
>
> 
> I know this probably is not feasible but
> What I would REALLY like is an active PoE midspan injector (8/24 gigabit
> port). Something that does not require a site monitor (has web/snmp
> function built in). It takes AC power and can output DC to each type of
> device. This device would be software configurable for power type and has
> apc masterswitch functionality. It would need to support up to 150watt per
> port for WiMAX and Licensed Link Radios. It would need to support from
> 12vdc to 56vdc output. If there was a model that also supported power out
> to a few (4) AC outlets I wouldn't even need an APC Masterswitch. The goal
> is to replace all those PoE injectors which don't mount in a rack or on a
> din rail in a box.
> 
>
>
>
> Matthew Jenkins
> SmarterBroadband
> m...@sbbinc.net
> 530.272.4000
>
>
> On 10/05/2014 01:19 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af wrote:
>
>> It's been (quite) a while since I sent one of these messages out to the
>> list.
>>
>> With the release of all of our new gigabit injectors, it is time for me
>> to decide which products will be next out the door at PacketFlux.
>>
>> We've got several products at various stages of completion, but almost
>> all of them I expect to be very low volume projects - the type of products
>> we complete just because they help fill out our product offering instead of
>> expecting a lot of revenue from them.   A couple of these have appeared on
>> the website recently - I.E. a 2 Relay, 3 Switch module, and the
>> voltmeter/shunt input modules.
>>
>> So, what I'd love to hear is some suggestions for products PacketFlux
>> could build which would help you in your WISP. I'm particularly looking for
>> products which if they existed would go at every one of your tower sites,
>> or even better at every customer location.  I know these product ideas
>> exist out there, and I'd love to hear them.   Feel free to throw ideas out
>> which are outside of the narrow niche that you think of PacketFlux fitting
>> into.
>>
>> One final note  - there is always a query for an all-in-one tower device
>> which includes some mixture of ac power supply, dc-dc conversion, battery
>> charging/management, Ethernet switch, router, power injection, fiber
>> conversion, etc.. I've heard those loud and clear and am aware of that
>> desire. There's work being done in-house toward something like that, but
>> there are many hurdles left to make it a reality.  If there's a simplified
>> version of this which would fit a specific, widespread, need I'd love to
>> hear about it, but the idea of a device you put into your rack and it
>> handles everything needed at a tower site is still quite a ways off for us.
>>
>> So, throw your best ideas out there... I'd love to take a couple and run
>> with them.
>>
>> -forrest
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] PacketFlux Product Ideas

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

The problem is that 10/100+Passive PoE needs all 8 wires, typically - 2
pairs for data + 2 pairs for power.  So simple splitting isn't going to get
you very far.

You could probably put an adapter both ends and do some sort of 10/100+PoE
on 2 pair and convert it back to 4 pair.   But then you're limited at
10/100, no gigabit.   Not sure this is what people would want with everyone
moving to gigabit.

-forrest



On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 5:28 PM, timothy steele via Af  wrote:

> No switching needed DIY would be to use 3 wire scotch locks on all wires
> at the top then you would have 2 ends at top and 1 end at bottom as I'm
> typing this I'm realizing the issues doing it that way but you can figure
> it out I'm sure..
>
> —
> Sent from Mailbox <https://www.dropbox.com/mailbox>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 7:15 PM, Mark Radabaugh via Af 
> wrote:
>
>>  I'm still looking for a rugged portable rechargeable power supply with
>> a built in speaker and wifi AP for the installers to use to power and aim
>> CPE.
>>
>> We cobble stuff up with rechargeable flashlights and electrical tape.
>> It's not pretty.   I would buy multiple units if the price is <$200.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> *Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID*
>>
>>
>> "Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af"  wrote:
>>
>> It's been (quite) a while since I sent one of these messages out to the
>> list.
>>
>> With the release of all of our new gigabit injectors, it is time for me
>> to decide which products will be next out the door at PacketFlux.
>>
>> We've got several products at various stages of completion, but almost
>> all of them I expect to be very low volume projects - the type of products
>> we complete just because they help fill out our product offering instead of
>> expecting a lot of revenue from them.   A couple of these have appeared on
>> the website recently - I.E. a 2 Relay, 3 Switch module, and the
>> voltmeter/shunt input modules.
>>
>> So, what I'd love to hear is some suggestions for products PacketFlux
>> could build which would help you in your WISP.   I'm particularly looking
>> for products which if they existed would go at every one of your tower
>> sites, or even better at every customer location.  I know these product
>> ideas exist out there, and I'd love to hear them.   Feel free to throw
>> ideas out which are outside of the narrow niche that you think of
>> PacketFlux fitting into.
>>
>> One final note  - there is always a query for an all-in-one tower device
>> which includes some mixture of ac power supply, dc-dc conversion, battery
>> charging/management, Ethernet switch, router, power injection, fiber
>> conversion, etc..   I've heard those loud and clear and am aware of that
>> desire.   There's work being done in-house toward something like that, but
>> there are many hurdles left to make it a reality.  If there's a simplified
>> version of this which would fit a specific, widespread, need I'd love to
>> hear about it, but the idea of a device you put into your rack and it
>> handles everything needed at a tower site is still quite a ways off for us.
>>
>> So, throw your best ideas out there... I'd love to take a couple and run
>> with them.
>>
>> -forrest
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] PacketFlux Product Ideas

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

This might be doable.  My main concern is where to set the cost so that
(quantity sold) * (price per unit) > (cost to develop and manufacture said
quantity).  Or if that condition is even achievable.

Are you envisioning the audio to come from the radio ... I.E. on canopy
plug into that second alignment port?

-forrest

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 5:15 PM, Mark Radabaugh via Af  wrote:

> I'm still looking for a rugged portable rechargeable power supply with a
> built in speaker and wifi AP for the installers to use to power and aim
> CPE.
>
> We cobble stuff up with rechargeable flashlights and electrical tape.
> It's not pretty.   I would buy multiple units if the price is <$200.
>
> Mark
>
> *Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID*
>
>
> "Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af"  wrote:
>
> It's been (quite) a while since I sent one of these messages out to the
> list.
>
> With the release of all of our new gigabit injectors, it is time for me to
> decide which products will be next out the door at PacketFlux.
>
> We've got several products at various stages of completion, but almost all
> of them I expect to be very low volume projects - the type of products we
> complete just because they help fill out our product offering instead of
> expecting a lot of revenue from them.   A couple of these have appeared on
> the website recently - I.E. a 2 Relay, 3 Switch module, and the
> voltmeter/shunt input modules.
>
> So, what I'd love to hear is some suggestions for products PacketFlux
> could build which would help you in your WISP.   I'm particularly looking
> for products which if they existed would go at every one of your tower
> sites, or even better at every customer location.  I know these product
> ideas exist out there, and I'd love to hear them.   Feel free to throw
> ideas out which are outside of the narrow niche that you think of
> PacketFlux fitting into.
>
> One final note  - there is always a query for an all-in-one tower device
> which includes some mixture of ac power supply, dc-dc conversion, battery
> charging/management, Ethernet switch, router, power injection, fiber
> conversion, etc..   I've heard those loud and clear and am aware of that
> desire.   There's work being done in-house toward something like that, but
> there are many hurdles left to make it a reality.  If there's a simplified
> version of this which would fit a specific, widespread, need I'd love to
> hear about it, but the idea of a device you put into your rack and it
> handles everything needed at a tower site is still quite a ways off for us.
>
> So, throw your best ideas out there... I'd love to take a couple and run
> with them.
>
> -forrest
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] PacketFlux Product Ideas

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

There are some licensed ones out there which approach that.  But generally
they're not powered via PoE.

The highest I can point to quickly is in the <80W category for single radio
configurations.  I swear I've seen one at 110W, but most of the licensed
units I'm looking at quickly are around 80W.

-forrest

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 5:55 PM, Gino Villarini via Af  wrote:

>   What radio needs 150w?
>
>
>
>  Gino A. Villarini
> President
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> www.aeronetpr.com
> @aeronetpr
>
>
>
>   From: "af@afmug.com" 
> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Date: Sunday, October 5, 2014 at 7:14 PM
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PacketFlux Product Ideas
>
>   This is actually in the category of what I'm expending a fair bit of
> R&D on right now.
>
>  The challenge comes cost.   150watt per port is very expensive to do
> when factoring in the DC-DC conversion.   20W is  easy.  50W is a bit
> harder.  150W gets very expensive quickly.
>
>  As a result, I'm thinking somewhat modular, i.e. pick/choose.
>
>  I also have to be mindful of the competitors in the space, in that I
> want to be different in the right ways.   The power injection/switching
> space is quite crowded.
>
>  -forrest
>
> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Matt Jenkins via Af  wrote:
>
>> Our infrastructure sites look like this:
>>
>> Shielded Cables -> 8 or 24port shielded patch panel
>> -> APC PRM24 with WB Surge Modules
>> -> PoE Injectors
>> -> Switch / Router
>>
>> PoE Injectors are attached to a Masterswitch.
>>
>>
>> 
>> I know this probably is not feasible but
>> What I would REALLY like is an active PoE midspan injector (8/24 gigabit
>> port). Something that does not require a site monitor (has web/snmp
>> function built in). It takes AC power and can output DC to each type of
>> device. This device would be software configurable for power type and has
>> apc masterswitch functionality. It would need to support up to 150watt per
>> port for WiMAX and Licensed Link Radios. It would need to support from
>> 12vdc to 56vdc output. If there was a model that also supported power out
>> to a few (4) AC outlets I wouldn't even need an APC Masterswitch. The goal
>> is to replace all those PoE injectors which don't mount in a rack or on a
>> din rail in a box.
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> Matthew Jenkins
>> SmarterBroadband
>> m...@sbbinc.net
>> 530.272.4000
>>
>>
>> On 10/05/2014 01:19 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af wrote:
>>
>>> It's been (quite) a while since I sent one of these messages out to the
>>> list.
>>>
>>> With the release of all of our new gigabit injectors, it is time for me
>>> to decide which products will be next out the door at PacketFlux.
>>>
>>> We've got several products at various stages of completion, but almost
>>> all of them I expect to be very low volume projects - the type of products
>>> we complete just because they help fill out our product offering instead of
>>> expecting a lot of revenue from them.   A couple of these have appeared on
>>> the website recently - I.E. a 2 Relay, 3 Switch module, and the
>>> voltmeter/shunt input modules.
>>>
>>> So, what I'd love to hear is some suggestions for products PacketFlux
>>> could build which would help you in your WISP. I'm particularly looking for
>>> products which if they existed would go at every one of your tower sites,
>>> or even better at every customer location.  I know these product ideas
>>> exist out there, and I'd love to hear them.   Feel free to throw ideas out
>>> which are outside of the narrow niche that you think of PacketFlux fitting
>>> into.
>>>
>>> One final note  - there is always a query for an all-in-one tower device
>>> which includes some mixture of ac power supply, dc-dc conversion, battery
>>> charging/management, Ethernet switch, router, power injection, fiber
>>> conversion, etc.. I've heard those loud and clear and am aware of that
>>> desire. There's work being done in-house toward something like that, but
>>> there are many hurdles left to make it a reality.  If there's a simplified
>>> version of this which would fit a specific, widespread, need I'd love to
>>> hear about it, but the idea of a device you put into your rack and it
>>> handles everything needed at a tower site is still quite a ways off for us.
>>>
>>> So, throw your best ideas out there... I'd love to take a couple and run
>>> with them.
>>>
>>> -forrest
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

I'm assuming you mean the original idea, not the idea presented in the
message you replied to ;)

Yes, it occured to me that this might be a business-install type of product
where you're more worried about uptime and availability instead of every
penny of cost.

Do you have any idea how many business installs you do on average?

-forrest

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 8:58 PM, Jeremy via Af  wrote:

> This is the best idea I've ever heard for a WISP business invention.  I
> LOVE the idea.  It would be really hard to justify the cost on customer
> installs.  I could see maybe bundling it into every business install.  It
> also becomes one more reason why our business installs are better.  We
> could power cycle it remotely, view statistics, etc.  I think I could
> justify it on every business account.
>
> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 5:47 PM, timothy steele via Af 
> wrote:
>
>> A cap that keeps ants/worms on of SM for tree installs would be nice
>>
>> —
>> Sent from Mailbox <https://www.dropbox.com/mailbox>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 7:45 PM, That One Guy via Af  wrote:
>>
>>> then youre already putting in 5-20 dollars worth of cable, 20-35 dollars
>>> in surge protection. 5-15 dollars in mounting hardware in incidental costs
>>> aside from the CPE there isnt really much breathing room for residential
>>> 29-39 dollar connections. Especially in cases like us who eat the CPE cost.
>>> The reality is it would be just one more piece of equipment for
>>> customers to plug in incorrectly, or even better, completely bypass.
>>> That being said, I want it, and I want it to display the MAC address of
>>> the attached device so that when a customer gets a new router to self
>>> provision they can look on the display and know what it is, we still have
>>> CS staff telling them to look on the sticker on the router.. fucking
>>> dipshits.
>>>
>>>
>>> E
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 6:13 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Honestly, a RB2011 fills that niche pretty well. Lock the LCD to
>>>> display only WAN bandwidth, and disable the touchscreen. Techs can log
>>>> into the RB2011 with the admin credentials and check on the wireless
>>>> clients, interface errors, run speed tests (tcp) to the headend of your
>>>> network, etc.
>>>>
>>>> $5/mo for router management a month is what we charge, and the people
>>>> that have the service love it.
>>>>
>>>> Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
>>>> SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com
>>>>  On 10/05/2014 01:18 PM, TJ Trout via Af wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  I would love to find a router that has poe output and all of the
>>>> diagnostic features you mentioned. It would be nice if the customer could
>>>> just look at the router to see the status of the connection up down or
>>>> otherwise.
>>>>  On Oct 5, 2014 2:13 PM, "Chris Fabien via Af"  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  I'd say you are correct. Would love to have the functionality but
>>>>> even at $75 I couldn't justify the cost.
>>>>> On Oct 5, 2014 5:08 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af" <
>>>>> af@afmug.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Following up on the previous email about product ideas, I have an
>>>>>> idea for a product which at least I think would be really cool, but I 
>>>>>> also
>>>>>> think would likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent cost
>>>>>> sensitivity of installs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the power injector at
>>>>>> customer sites with more of an intelligent device.   One that provides
>>>>>> functionality like traffic metering, cable diagnostics, customer-location
>>>>>> speed tests, and so on.   The unit would have jacks for the radio, the
>>>>>> customer equipment, and power.   It would also have a display which shows
>>>>>> real-time usage data for the customer to be able to determine for
>>>>>> themselves what their current internet consumption is.   There are a lot 
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> natural outgrowths from this such as watchdog reset of the radio itself,
>>>>>> automatic problem notification to the WISP, etc.   My goal would be to
>>>>>> instrument this as much as possible

Re: [AFMUG] PacketFlux Product Ideas

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

150W is pretty hard to deliver via CAT5.

Each wire is rated at  .577 amps.  Ignoring other concerns, this means at
48V, you get about 25 watts with a bit of margin, per wire.  If you are
sending the power up on two pairs, and returning it on the other two, this
means you only have about 100W total you can do via CAT5 (110W with no
margin).To do over 100W you have to use something else for the return
path, say the tower or a ground wire - in which case you could send 200W up
a CAT5 cable and return it via ground.

Personally once you get that much power in a CAT5 cable it scares me.  A
LOT of voltage drop, challenges in injection methods, etc

Most ethernet magnetics top out at about 25.5W for power on two pairs, and
51W for four.  This also corresponds to the 802.3at spec.   I guess if
you're returning on ground, you can also get 102W.

Right now I'm focusing on the <50W category (ok, maybe a smidgen more).

-forrest

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 6:46 PM, Matt Jenkins via Af  wrote:

> Exalt ExtremeAir Radios draw 135watt average over PoE. Telrad Radios we
> use draw up to 150watt but usually around 120ish.
>
>
>
> Matthew Jenkins
> SmarterBroadband
> m...@sbbinc.net
> 530.272.4000
>
> On 10/05/2014 04:55 PM, Gino Villarini via Af wrote:
>
>> What radio needs 150w?
>>
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> President
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> www.aeronetpr.com
>> @aeronetpr
>>
>>
>>
>> From: "af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>" > af@afmug.com>>
>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>" > af@afmug.com>>
>> Date: Sunday, October 5, 2014 at 7:14 PM
>> To: "af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>" > af@afmug.com>>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PacketFlux Product Ideas
>>
>> This is actually in the category of what I'm expending a fair bit of R&D
>> on right now.
>>
>> The challenge comes cost.   150watt per port is very expensive to do when
>> factoring in the DC-DC conversion.   20W is  easy.  50W is a bit harder.
>> 150W gets very expensive quickly.
>>
>> As a result, I'm thinking somewhat modular, i.e. pick/choose.
>>
>> I also have to be mindful of the competitors in the space, in that I want
>> to be different in the right ways.   The power injection/switching space is
>> quite crowded.
>>
>> -forrest
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Matt Jenkins via Af > <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Our infrastructure sites look like this:
>>
>> Shielded Cables -> 8 or 24port shielded patch panel
>> -> APC PRM24 with WB Surge Modules
>> -> PoE Injectors
>> -> Switch / Router
>>
>> PoE Injectors are attached to a Masterswitch.
>>
>>
>> 
>> I know this probably is not feasible but
>> What I would REALLY like is an active PoE midspan injector (8/24
>> gigabit port). Something that does not require a site monitor (has
>> web/snmp function built in). It takes AC power and can output DC
>> to each type of device. This device would be software configurable
>> for power type and has apc masterswitch functionality. It would
>> need to support up to 150watt per port for WiMAX and Licensed Link
>> Radios. It would need to support from 12vdc to 56vdc output. If
>> there was a model that also supported power out to a few (4) AC
>> outlets I wouldn't even need an APC Masterswitch. The goal is to
>> replace all those PoE injectors which don't mount in a rack or on
>> a din rail in a box.
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> Matthew Jenkins
>> SmarterBroadband
>> m...@sbbinc.net <mailto:m...@sbbinc.net>
>> 530.272.4000 
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/05/2014 01:19 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af wrote:
>>
>> It's been (quite) a while since I sent one of these messages
>> out to the list.
>>
>> With the release of all of our new gigabit injectors, it is
>> time for me to decide which products will be next out the door
>> at PacketFlux.
>>
>> We've got several products at various stages of completion,
>> but almost all of them I expect to be very low volume projects
>> - the type of products we complete just because they help fill
>> out our product offering instead of expecting a lot of revenue
>> from them.   A couple of these have appeared on the website
>> recently - I.

Re: [AFMUG] PacketFlux Product Ideas

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Are you talking about powering multiple radios from one PoE feed below, or
multiple CPE's powering one radio?

-forrest

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 7:11 PM, TJ Trout via Af  wrote:

> I would be interested in a device that's wall mount or tower mount that's
> a 3 or 4 port poe powered, poe pass thru ethernet switch, bonus for
> selectable polarity output. Double bonus for gigabit!
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 6:10 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:
>
>> Forrest,
>>
>> If the device was really really nice, had everything I talked about and
>> maybe even wifi AP I would buy a few @ $500, $250 is more where I think it
>> would be plausible. We would buy maybe 5 @ 250, obviously not a high volume
>> thing. Updates, free would be nice but I wouldn't mind spending $50 each
>> update for much enhanced functionality...
>>
>> Yes we are clipping the tab now.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 5:46 PM, Matt Jenkins via Af  wrote:
>>
>>> Exalt ExtremeAir Radios draw 135watt average over PoE. Telrad Radios we
>>> use draw up to 150watt but usually around 120ish.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Matthew Jenkins
>>> SmarterBroadband
>>> m...@sbbinc.net
>>> 530.272.4000
>>>
>>> On 10/05/2014 04:55 PM, Gino Villarini via Af wrote:
>>>
>>>> What radio needs 150w?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>>> President
>>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>>> www.aeronetpr.com
>>>> @aeronetpr
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: "af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>" >>> af@afmug.com>>
>>>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>" >>> af@afmug.com>>
>>>> Date: Sunday, October 5, 2014 at 7:14 PM
>>>> To: "af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>" >>> af@afmug.com>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PacketFlux Product Ideas
>>>>
>>>> This is actually in the category of what I'm expending a fair bit of
>>>> R&D on right now.
>>>>
>>>> The challenge comes cost.   150watt per port is very expensive to do
>>>> when factoring in the DC-DC conversion.   20W is  easy.  50W is a bit
>>>> harder.  150W gets very expensive quickly.
>>>>
>>>> As a result, I'm thinking somewhat modular, i.e. pick/choose.
>>>>
>>>> I also have to be mindful of the competitors in the space, in that I
>>>> want to be different in the right ways.   The power injection/switching
>>>> space is quite crowded.
>>>>
>>>> -forrest
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Matt Jenkins via Af >>> <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Our infrastructure sites look like this:
>>>>
>>>> Shielded Cables -> 8 or 24port shielded patch panel
>>>> -> APC PRM24 with WB Surge Modules
>>>> -> PoE Injectors
>>>> -> Switch / Router
>>>>
>>>> PoE Injectors are attached to a Masterswitch.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> I know this probably is not feasible but
>>>> What I would REALLY like is an active PoE midspan injector (8/24
>>>> gigabit port). Something that does not require a site monitor (has
>>>> web/snmp function built in). It takes AC power and can output DC
>>>> to each type of device. This device would be software configurable
>>>> for power type and has apc masterswitch functionality. It would
>>>> need to support up to 150watt per port for WiMAX and Licensed Link
>>>> Radios. It would need to support from 12vdc to 56vdc output. If
>>>> there was a model that also supported power out to a few (4) AC
>>>> outlets I wouldn't even need an APC Masterswitch. The goal is to
>>>> replace all those PoE injectors which don't mount in a rack or on
>>>> a din rail in a box.
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Matthew Jenkins
>>>> SmarterBroadband
>>>> m...@sbbinc.net <mailto:m...@sbbinc.net>
>>>> 530.272.4000 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 10/05/2014 01:19 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>&

Re: [AFMUG] PacketFlux Product Ideas

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Ok.  Got it.  I've also at one time or another thought that it would be
neat to do it the other way for MTU settings.  One radio on the roof,
plugged into an ethernet switch and the whole thing powered from PoE from
each tenant where only one tenant needed to have their poe plugged in to
power on the whole device.

-forrest

On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 12:44 AM, timothy steele via Af  wrote:

> I was talking about powering 1 CPE and 1 AP with 1 POE for micro pops
>
> —
> Sent from Mailbox <https://www.dropbox.com/mailbox>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 2:40 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af <
> af@afmug.com> wrote:
>
>> 150W is pretty hard to deliver via CAT5.
>>
>> Each wire is rated at  .577 amps.  Ignoring other concerns, this means at
>> 48V, you get about 25 watts with a bit of margin, per wire.  If you are
>> sending the power up on two pairs, and returning it on the other two, this
>> means you only have about 100W total you can do via CAT5 (110W with no
>> margin).To do over 100W you have to use something else for the return
>> path, say the tower or a ground wire - in which case you could send 200W up
>> a CAT5 cable and return it via ground.
>>
>> Personally once you get that much power in a CAT5 cable it scares me.  A
>> LOT of voltage drop, challenges in injection methods, etc
>>
>> Most ethernet magnetics top out at about 25.5W for power on two pairs,
>> and 51W for four.  This also corresponds to the 802.3at spec.   I guess if
>> you're returning on ground, you can also get 102W.
>>
>> Right now I'm focusing on the <50W category (ok, maybe a smidgen more).
>>
>> -forrest
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 6:46 PM, Matt Jenkins via Af  wrote:
>>
>>> Exalt ExtremeAir Radios draw 135watt average over PoE. Telrad Radios we
>>> use draw up to 150watt but usually around 120ish.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Matthew Jenkins
>>> SmarterBroadband
>>> m...@sbbinc.net
>>> 530.272.4000
>>>
>>> On 10/05/2014 04:55 PM, Gino Villarini via Af wrote:
>>>
>>>>  What radio needs 150w?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>>> President
>>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>>> www.aeronetpr.com
>>>> @aeronetpr
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: "af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>" >>> af@afmug.com>>
>>>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>" >>> af@afmug.com>>
>>>> Date: Sunday, October 5, 2014 at 7:14 PM
>>>> To: "af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>" >>> af@afmug.com>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PacketFlux Product Ideas
>>>>
>>>> This is actually in the category of what I'm expending a fair bit of
>>>> R&D on right now.
>>>>
>>>> The challenge comes cost.   150watt per port is very expensive to do
>>>> when factoring in the DC-DC conversion.   20W is  easy.  50W is a bit
>>>> harder.  150W gets very expensive quickly.
>>>>
>>>> As a result, I'm thinking somewhat modular, i.e. pick/choose.
>>>>
>>>> I also have to be mindful of the competitors in the space, in that I
>>>> want to be different in the right ways.   The power injection/switching
>>>> space is quite crowded.
>>>>
>>>> -forrest
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Matt Jenkins via Af >>> <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Our infrastructure sites look like this:
>>>>
>>>> Shielded Cables -> 8 or 24port shielded patch panel
>>>> -> APC PRM24 with WB Surge Modules
>>>> -> PoE Injectors
>>>> -> Switch / Router
>>>>
>>>> PoE Injectors are attached to a Masterswitch.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> I know this probably is not feasible but....
>>>> What I would REALLY like is an active PoE midspan injector (8/24
>>>> gigabit port). Something that does not require a site monitor (has
>>>> web/snmp function built in). It takes AC power and can output DC
>>>> to each type of device. This device would be software configurable
>>>> for power type and has apc masterswitch functionality. It would
>>>> need to support up to 150watt per port for WiMAX and Licensed 

Re: [AFMUG] how to use (2) CMM Micro and one GPS antenna ??

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Thank you... saved me the time typing it from memory or looking it up.
Although usually I'm telling people how to do this with a packetflux sync
product.

-forrest

On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Sean Heskett via Af  wrote:

> it's in the cmm3.0 manual on page 48 the cambium site.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 2:48 PM, Paul McCall via Af  wrote:
>
>>  I have to hook up a CMM to a tower that already has a CMM on it, like
>> today.   There is a “timing” 6 pin connector on the CMM.  Can that be used
>> to bridge the sync to the 2nd CMM?  If so, how would that be wired, and
>> what setting would I make in the CMM(s) so that it would know to use it
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul McCall, Pres.
>>
>> PDMNet / Florida Broadband
>>
>> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>>
>> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>>
>> 772-564-6800 office
>>
>> 772-473-0352 cell
>>
>> www.pdmnet.com
>>
>> pa...@pdmnet.net
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] packetflux sitemonitor multiple purpose monitoring

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

You can't set multiple IPs.   NAT on a router in between your management
and the devices may have a similar effect.

I'm not sure how people are monitoring in powercode.   Are you saying you
can't have multiple probes destined toward the same IP address?   How do
they handle graphing say a 24 port switch with only 3-4 ports in use?

If you have to create a 'probe' for each monitored device which lists
everything to be monitored, I think you're stuck with the idea of a
different type for each arrangement you have.

-forrest

On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 2:27 PM, That One Guy via Af  wrote:

> first - packetflux - your products rock, your documentation on the other
> hand.
>
> we are testing these currently for montoing/managing APC UPS and providing
> cambium sync
>
> We use powercode
>
> First, is there a way to set multiple IP addresses on a sitemonitor base
> unit? If that were possible it would resolve the issue
>
> Second, powercode monitoring is limited in its configuration, we cant
> create our own real time tools and the long term probe graphing requires a
> separate probe for each graph, no categorization or packaging
>
> so if we put in a sitemonitor that has both the APC add on module as well
> ans the sync module, we dont have a clean way to create monitoring tools
>
> in this case to have versatility without having a bunch of unused probes
> on each device we would have to create 4 separate device types. Stand alone
> Site Monitor, Site Monitor with sync, site monitor with APC monitor, site
> monitor with both, and then if we have two sync modules that is another,
> etc.
>
> Has anyone found a successful way of monitoring these?  I really want to
> use them, I have a pile of them to use, but I need to monitor them in
> powercode
>
> --
> All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the
> parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you
> can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not
> use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925
>

Re: [AFMUG] Problem with Sync and link speed on 310 foot run with ePMP APs

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

I'd be curious if your experience was the same with say a cambium gigabit
injector in there.  Not quite Apples to apples but closer than a gigabit vs
non gigabit injector.

Midspan gigabit injectors definitely add some signal loss due to the
Ethernet magnetics in the path.   At least a couple dB.

I've also noticed that certain surge suppressors are even more picky with
the gigabit injectors.  Not sure why.
On Oct 7, 2014 2:30 PM, "Paul McCall via Af"  wrote:

>  Just wanted to give a heads up on our experience with our first run at
> trying ePMPs at this distance of cable run.
>
>
>
> We mounted 4  5 Ghz and 4 2.4 Ghz   ePMP APs today (a retrofit from 100
> series APs).   We have an existing CMM Micro that has been at the tower for
> 5 or 6 years.  We needed more ports with Sync so we attempted to use a
> Gigabit Syncinjector for the additional ports we needed.  We put the 2.4
> Ghz radios on the CMM and put the 5 Ghz on the SyncInjector.
>
>
>
> The CMM and the “LAN facing” ports on the Syncinjector, powered by the
> same 5 AMP/24v power supply that we use for CTM’s,  plugged into a 2011
> Mikrotik router.
>
>
>
> The CMM works flawlessly, providing 100Mbit connections and sync .  The
> SyncInjector… not so much.  Initially, the symptoms were that 1 of the APs
> would only connect 10 Mbit and 1 different one would not get Sync.We
> tried swapping know good (successful on the CMM) cables, changing ports on
> the SyncInjector to make sure we didn’t have cable or AP related issues
> etc.  Eventually, we lost ability to do Sync on any of the APs, and 2 of
> the 4 will only do 10 Mbit.  Tried it with both 100Mbit and Gbit ports on
> the 2011, in auto or static Speed/Duplex configs.  No go.   The cables
> being used were both Best-Tronics and Toughcable Carrier.  All the
> toughcables were premade to the 300 feet and tested inhouse at Gigabit
> speeds (TIK to TIK tests)
>
>
>
> Going to have to climb again tomorrow with a second CMM to swapout for the
> SyncInjector.
>
>
>
> We normally have very good luck with SyncInjectors but at 300 feet
> distance with the Gigabit models, we couldn’t make it work in this
> application.  Cambium had “advised us” that there may be abnormal
> challenges with 300 ft. of cable on the ePMP.
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> Paul McCall, Pres.
>
> PDMNet / Florida Broadband
>
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>
> 772-564-6800 office
>
> 772-473-0352 cell
>
> www.pdmnet.com
>
> pa...@pdmnet.net
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] packetflux save me

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

I was going through my drafts and noticed for some reason the following was
still a draft, and hadn't been sent:

Are you saying this is a DC tower lighting system now?  I haven't run
across one of those yet.

For AC, I was going to recommend that you look into a tower light monitor
with a contact output you could hook into a sitemonitor or similar.   I
know people who have used the ones from  www.towermonitor.com with good
results.

I'm also looking at building a purpose-built module for the sitemonitor
system, but this is a ways down the todo list.

-forrest

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 5:58 AM, David Milholen  wrote:

>  I am going to replace my third elec eye. I am converting the eye to DC
> with isolation so I dont lose another one
> but I would like to get something simple to monitor the sites lights.
>
>
> On 9/15/2014 1:18 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>
> Hey I was going to reply but I've been traveling and haven't had a chance
> to access the info I need to reply.
>
> At this point I'll be back in the office mid week and I'll have some good
> suggestions for you.
> On Sep 11, 2014 9:34 PM, "David Milholen"  wrote:
>
>>  Forrest,
>>  I was looking over your site trying to find something that would help me
>> to monitor
>> our older tower lighting using incandescent bulbs.
>>  I am not sure if the shunts will do the trick because I believe those
>> are for DC current not AC.
>>
>> I have some Toroids that may help with the AC current drop across a
>> circuit for indicating its on
>> or off.
>>
>> Ill have to pull my old AC circuit analysis book and transducers to see
>> what I have to do to interface it
>> to a site monitor base unit
>>
>> --
>>
>
> --
>

Re: [AFMUG] CBB coverage area has 'Town of the Living Dead"

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Personally I'm a little disappointed with the apparent complete lack of
compelling science fiction on tv nowadays.

It seems like all you can find are shows about superheroes or supernatural
or the undead.  About the closest thing left is Doctor Who and that's not
typically exactly the most believable.

Give me a believable premise that allows me to glimpse into a possible
future.   Battlestar Galactica.  Star trek.  Eureka.  Firefly.

But sadly it's all zombies and superpowers and weirdness anymore.
On Oct 7, 2014 9:07 PM, "Jay Weekley via Af"  wrote:

> Apparently, it's series. Syfy used to have Stargate and Battlestar
> Galactica. Now they have wrestling and low budget zombie movies made in
> rural Alabama. With that said, I won't be missing Walking Dead even though
> I will be in Vegas.
>
> David Milholen via Af wrote:
>
>> Time to get walking dead in there..
>>  Luv me some walking dead which if your a fan its OCT 12 Sunday night new
>> season BOOYAAA!
>>
>> On 10/7/2014 9:08 PM, Jay Weekley via Af wrote:
>>
>>> One of the towns in our coverage area is being featured in Syfy at the
>>> moment. Seems some residents are making a low budget zombie movie. If you
>>> have time to kill.
>>>
>>> http://www.al.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2014/
>>> 10/town_of_the_living_dead_show_o.html
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] CQ Forrest

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Nope.  Let me see if I can find it.
On Oct 8, 2014 8:58 AM, "Chuck McCown via Af"  wrote:

>   Hey Forrest,
> Send you a note off list a week or two ago.  Did you see it?
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cheapest Battery Backup with email notification alert

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

If you're in that price range then you should be looking at the packetflux
sitemonitor base unit also.
On Oct 7, 2014 1:56 PM, "Graham McIntire via Af"  wrote:

> I have a Tycon web monitor (
> http://tyconpower.com/Support/support_TPDIN-Monitor-WEB.htm ) at a site
> where I have this same issue -- I never know when the AC is out until the
> batteries die. I wrote a custom nagios check that polls for one of the
> voltage levels and will trigger an alert if it drops below a voltage
> threshhold.
>
> On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 7:52 AM, David via Af  wrote:
>
>>  LOL Ive done that on a couple of really remote sites.
>>
>> On 10/06/2014 04:27 PM, Dennis Burgess via Af wrote:
>>
>>  Drop a MT 750 off the non battery side and drop a ip on it, .. monitor
>> that IP, it goes off but not the rest, guess what you are on battery!
>>
>> �
>>
>> Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc.
>>
>> den...@linktechs.net � 314-735-0270 � www.linktechs.net
>>
>> �
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *Rory Conaway via Af
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 06, 2014 3:47 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Cheapest Battery Backup with email notification alert
>>
>> �
>>
>> Have some temporary locations that I can�t secure well.
>>
>> �
>>
>> Rory Conaway
>> Triad Wireless
>> 4226 S. 37th Street
>> Phoenix, Az.� 85040
>> 602-426-0542
>> r...@triadwireless.net
>> www.triadwireless.net
>>
>> �
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

I don't do semi-political ranting very much, but this particular topic
really irritates me.

Let me state that I am a card carrying Libertarian.  I'm a firm believer
that the government should stay out of almost everything, and let
capitalism and the free enterprise system work.  For the most part,
government interfering with an industry doesn't really have the desired
effect.   Look at the attempts at bringing broadband to the masses as a
good example.

I would love for the government to stay out of this, provided that we could
get health care for a reasonable price, and that capitalism and the free
market would work in this case.   For this to work, there would need to be
the complete absence of government regulation, there would need to be
a highly competitive market, and so on.  This includes such things as:

1) If you can't pay you die.   No more 'free' health care provided at
emergency rooms and the like.  Or stated differently:  All medical
facilities are free to refuse service based on ability to pay and whatever
other factors they decide.

2) Transparent pricing.  Have you ever tried to find out how much a
specific procedure would cost, all in?A perfect example:  A year or so
ago, I needed some antibiotics for a chest infection (aka walking
pneumonia) I get fairly often at the end of a cold/flu.  I knew what it was
- all I needed was a doctor to listen to my chest, say 'yep, you've got
crud in there', and give me a prescription.   Two hours later, a pair of
chest x-rays, and $800 of lab work, I have my prescription.   All because
the doctor was worried that it might be something else so he had to do all
the tests to rule out everything else it could be. I would have
objected but the chest x-rays seemed a logical thing to do, and how much
can a bit of lab work cost, after all?

3) Ability for the users of the service to make cost/benefit analysis
choices.   This ties in with #2.   Using my walking pneumonia example, if
they would have said "it's probably pneumonia, and we can send you home
with a prescription for $80, but we also think there's a 25% chance that it
is condition X, and if we don't catch it now, there's a 99% chance you'll
end up dead, and for us to test for that it's an extra $100, and there's a
1% chance that it is condition Y, which if we don't catch right now, it
will be a bit more expensive to treat, and the tests for that is another
$700", I would have chosen the $180 option.   Today they're just loading
you up with everything and people are paying.

Note that I'm specifically ignoring insurance here.   Since that helps with
#3, but adds a differing set of unknowable cost/benefit choices.

The problem we have today is that we have a system where there is no way
for the users to exert any real pressure on the system, and no way for this
to be fixed - since you can't just say "I don't need health care".   In
this situation, you end up with costs spiraling out of control, which is
exactly what is going on.   Where pressure has been applied it's only made
the problem worse since it's been applied to fix the symptoms, not the
problems.

I think we need to try one of two things in this country:

Option 1:   Get the government completely out of health care, including
setting any requirements on the health care system.
Option 2:   Switch to a single payer system.

Seeing as I'm not aware of a single situation where option 1 has actually
worked for a country, and even as much as the libertarian in me is offended
by the suggestion, I really think Option 2 is where we are going to have to
end up to fix this in this country.   I've seen the Canadian system first
hand.   Honestly, it seems that it works in most cases MUCH better than our
own system.   In fact, it seems that MOST health  services are done more
promptly than they are in the US.  I was shocked to hear that most doctors
visits with your primary care physician are scheduled the following
day.   There's a lot made about the waiting lines for a MRI and similar in
Canada.   From what I can tell, that is probably the only major issue where
things are worse.   They've chosen as a country to keep their health care
costs low, and one way of doing that is simply to not buy more MRI machines
than you actually need.   The only way to have 1-2 day waits for machines
is to buy way more than you need, and let them set idle most of the time.
But if you need in a MRI machine for an emergency, it's available for you
NOW, just like in the US.

The BIG difference is that in Canada people actually can afford to go to
the doctor when they're sick.  Here it's a big hassle, you're stuck with a
copay, and who knows how much more when they actually find stuff, so people
put things off as long as possible.   Not a good thing overall.   Canada,
you go to the doctor when you need to, and yes, if you need a diagnostic
MRI for something elective you may have to wait a few months.   There's
nothing to say we couldn't decide we wanted to spend a bit mo

Re: [AFMUG] Comcast is getting really ticked about complaints

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/10/comcast-got-me-fired-after-billing-dispute-says-california-man/2/
On Oct 10, 2014 7:01 AM, "Rory Conaway via Af"  wrote:

>
> The guy who got fired was on CNN this morning with his attorney.  Comcast
> called Price-Waterhouse and told them they wanted to open an ethics
> investigation in that he went over the line.  They didn’t mention how the
> investigation went but they fired him.  Then Comcast issues an apology that
> they never wanted him fired.  I’m smelling a really big lawsuit here.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *David via Af
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 8, 2014 1:28 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Comcast is getting really ticked about complaints
>
>
>
> Im sure there is some conspiracy there with comcast.. I m pretty sure
> theyre one of the few cablecos lobbing against WISPS to take away our 5G
> �
> Just my 2 cents
> LOL
>
> On 10/08/2014 11:42 AM, Jerry Richardson (airCloud) via Af wrote:
>
> It will be interesting to see how this goes, but it's unlikely that Conal
> is blameless. Ken's probably on the right track.�
>
>
>
> We've had customers act unreasonably. They use DirectWay now...
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 7:48 AM, Jason McKemie via Af  wrote:
>
> This is Comcast we're talking about here though. They do some pretty
> outrageous stuff on occasion.
>
> On Wednesday, October 8, 2014, Mark Radabaugh via Af  wrote:
>
> Given that we have all had calls from customers that are complete asses I
> pretty much have to assume Conal really crossed a line to get that much of
> a reaction.
>
> Mark
>
> On 10/8/14, 9:35 AM, Adam Moffett via Af wrote:
>
> The original article states that nobody has access to recordings of the
> phone calls or the contents of the emails.�
>
> Maybe Conal was the jerk.� What would someone have to say before you
> called his employer and told them they employee was being bad?� Something
> serious I assume.� Maybe Conal made threats or something.
>
> The fact is we don't know, and slashdot rallies automatically against the
> cable company because they're the cable company.� Not that I love my
> cable companybut the bias is quite clear.
>
> Per the original article it doesn't sound like the guy was being a jerk at
> all.� Comcast was, in fact, the jerk.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 6:37 PM, Chris Wright via Af  wrote:
>
> That�s pretty shady, but this part of the editorial really ticked me off,
>
> ���� �*Be careful next time when you exercise your first
> amendment rights�*
>
> *�*
>
> The first amendment protects the rights of the people to speak freely, but
> does not protect you from the consequences of being a jerk.
>
> �
>
> Chris Wright
>
> Velociter Wireless 
>
> �
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Josh Reynolds via Af
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 07, 2014 4:17 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Comcast is getting really ticked about complaints
>
> �
>
> Yeah I saw that.
>
> PS - f@#$ /. beta ;)
>
> Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
> SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com
>
> On 10/07/2014 02:51 PM, Rory Conaway via Af wrote:
>
> http://beta.slashdot.org/story/208189
>
> �
>
> Rory P. Conaway
>
> 4226 S. 37th Street
>
> Phoenix, Az. 85040
>
> 602-426-0542
>
> r...@triadwireless.net
>
> www.triadwireless.net
>
> �
>
> �
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Mark Radabaugh
>
> Amplex
>
>
>
> m...@amplex.net  419.837.5015 x 1021
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Old Canopy Gear

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

I know we look for used gear at the WISP as we need spares, although at
this point I think subscriber units aren't worth a lot.

If they were 5.7 or 2.4 or bh radios I'd guess they would be worth more.
On Oct 12, 2014 9:57 AM, "Mike Hammett via Af"  wrote:

> Is there any value to old SMs, APs or Cyclones? This would all be 5 GHz (I
> think predominately 5.2 GHz) PMP1xx gear.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>

Re: [AFMUG] packetflux questions

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

I think you misunderstood.

The sitemonitor remembers the devices to ensure the order of the oids
remain the same.

To end up with a specific order in the device there are two methods:

Zero out a device you want to move to the end of the list and rescan.

Or..   type the serial number of each device in the spot you want it and
rescan.

At boot or rescan it removes any zero serial numbers, and the second of any
duplicates,  condenses any remaining serials to the top of the list,
preserving order, and then proceeds to scan the bus.

Any units it finds it either marks as active if found in the list, or adds
them to the end if not.  The order it finds the modules is completely
random, so the new modules appear in whatever order they happen to be found.
On Oct 17, 2014 10:46 AM, "That One Guy via Af"  wrote:

> wont take the serials, I change them, but when i rescann it just adds
> another set of expansions with the original serial
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 12:37 PM, George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via
> Af  wrote:
>
>>  Set your preferred serial order, then rescan, reboot or power-cycle,
>> doesn't matter.
>>
>> On 10/17/2014 12:31 PM, That One Guy via Af wrote:
>>
>> are the serials set to the unit as in if I change them, then powercycle
>> they will reset? It would sure be nice if the base unit could allow
>> multiple IPs so you can assign the communication to each component
>> seperately for SNMP purposes
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 12:27 PM, George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via
>> Af  wrote:
>>
>>>  Nope, it's almost always random. You can set the serials in the order
>>> you want, then just issue a rescan.. move on with life.
>>>
>>> On 10/17/2014 12:25 PM, That One Guy via Af wrote:
>>>
>>> ok, so now a new question
>>> I removed the devices
>>> set to 0, cleared them
>>> Then when I reconnected base unit-syncinjector-UPS
>>> its showing the index order as base unit-UPS-syncinjector
>>>
>>>  Does it not go in the physical order they are connected?
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 12:21 PM, That One Guy via Af 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Jesus H Kittens
 My power supply was not connected, I didnt even think to look at that
 since the light was on, apparently that light is powered through the serial
 cable. Im a dumbass

 On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 12:17 PM, George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting)
 via Af  wrote:

>  6 flashes and the SyncPipe wouldn't power up means you didn't have
> the power input to the SyncInjector connected, or no power to it.
>
> The SyncInjector will either power its expansion bus by itself (if it
> has power on the input block) or it will take power from the base unit.
> That's why you could see it connected to the base, but it obviously needs
> its own power connected to power up radios and the SyncPipe.
>
> As everyone else has already said, to remove an expansion unit, just
> go into the expansion tab and set the device's serial to zero. Power down
> the base and physically remove the expansion unit from the bus. You should
> not be hot-plugging anything on the expansion bus. Forrest said it 
> probably
> won't hurt anything, but just don't do it.
>
> On 10/17/2014 11:19 AM, That One Guy via Af wrote:
>
> I remember somebody asking this once before
> How do you clear a device from a base unit. We were testing a
> syncinjector then removed it and started testing a UPS moniter, but the
> base unit still shows the syninjector, we have powercycled, we have
> rescanned, still there.
>
>  Also we have a syncpipe that when connected to the syncinjector does
> not light up, the syncinjector ports green light just keeps flashing 6 
> times
>
>  Is there a better set of instructions somewhere for using this gear,
> the stuff on the packetflux website isnt complete or clear, maybe im just
> not looking in the right spot?
>
>  --
> All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that
> the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you
> can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do 
> not
> use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925
>
>
>


  --
 All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that
 the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you
 can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not
 use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  --
>>> All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the
>>> parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you
>>> can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not
>>> use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>> All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the

Re: [AFMUG] Random thought

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

If your concern is raw speed alone, then you're right.

On the other hand, if you can't figure out how to build a winning value
proposition against some of the most hated companies in the country, then
you are doing something wrong.

The wireless technology today will get you to the point where most
customers won't see a difference in speed for their typical usage.
On Oct 17, 2014 4:50 PM, "Chris Wright via Af"  wrote:

> I don't disagree with your sentiment, but cable companies are offering
> stupid-fast plans now thanks to Google Fiber in more and more markets.
> Comcast is doubling speeds for free in some of their markets now. I doubt
> WISPs will ever win over the average residential customer who is eligible
> for cable and knows it (unless they're leaving on principle or something
> like that).
>
> Chris Wright
> Velociter Wireless
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of cstanners--- via Af
> Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 4:43 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] Random thought
>
> It's interesting that we needed Ubiquiti to push forward the industry by
> creating a high-end/high-capacity backhaul at a very low price, and Cambium
> to do the same by creating a wifi-chip-based/value-priced PtMP and
> mid-capacity PtP system that has GPS sync and seems to work very well.
>
> A few years ago when Canopy was stuck at 14mbit FSK, I was wondering how
> the WISP industry would survive. Now with Canopy450 and those more
> cost-effective options, things are looking very competitive against DSL,
> and even some cable.
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Gpon or 10g-pon sfp...when?

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

To slightly hijack this.  What is the fascination with gpon?

>From what I can tell, cabling a plant for active is dirt cheap and is
future proof.

Gpon isn't.
On Oct 19, 2014 1:04 AM, "TJ Trout via Af"  wrote:

> How far away are we from seeing a gpon olt sfp module that would be
> mikrotik compatible? Would be nice to use a ccr 12s and be able to serve
> hundreds of customers. Seems like we aren't real close though ?
>

Re: [AFMUG] ptp 450 timing

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Ptp450 needs timing port not power port timing.

You're going to have to run a sync wire.   I recommend using the same sync
receiver for both the timing and power port sync.   This either means using
a syncpipe deluxe, a syncbox 12, or cabling it with a specially wired cable
to the syncpipe output port on the injector.

If you need the pinouts for the cable let me know.
On Oct 19, 2014 12:32 PM, "Ryan Mano via Af"  wrote:

>  any one tried to get ptp 450 working through a packetflux?
>
>
>
> I see when looking under sync status it says Power Port Not
> Supportedits going to really suck if I cant get this working
>
>
>
> thanks
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cacti & SiteMonitor: What did I break?

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Just to be clear...  all of the oids are responsive with the correct
information when you use the oids and community string from cacti on a snmp
get?

If so, sounds like a cacti problem.

There is of course the possibility that the oids are different after doing
what you did, but that would show up as wrong data since cacti would be
configured for  the  wrong oid.
 On Oct 23, 2014 11:29 AM, "Bill Prince via Af"  wrote:

>
> I noticed an "Expansion Unit" on one of my SiteMonitors this morning.  It
> said something about "Device Removed" or something like that.
>
> Remembering the discussion the other day on this topic, I put a "0" in the
> Serial # for the non-existent unit, rescanned, & rebooted.
>
> Now, none of the OIDs work in Cacti.  If I do a simple snmpget on any of
> the OIDs that I use, the correct information comes back. Several of the
> OIDs are on the base unit anyway, so they would not have moved, and
> further, the OIDs don't reference the serial number.
>
> So... what did I do, and how do I fix it?
>
> --
> bp
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Packet Flux Generator Board Hookup

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

The inputs are good for 240v.
On Oct 23, 2014 2:06 PM, "Nate Burke via Af"  wrote:

> I have a ticket into Packetflux support, but I thought someone here might
> have hooked one up.
>
> On the AC inputs for monitoring line/generator voltage/frequency. Are the
> 2 terminals on each AC input for hot/neutral wires?  I.E. only a single
> phase 120v system.  Or can you run 2 hots into each input, for a 2
> Wire120/240v system, and it will monitor each leg? Just wanted to ask
> before I hook it up wrong and release some magic smoke.
>
> Nate
>

Re: [AFMUG] Packet Flux Generator Board Hookup

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Each terminal pair can measure up to 240v.

It comes down to what you need to monitor for failure.  If your gen is
backing up both sides, then you should bring both hots into that
terminal.If it's backing up only one, then you should bring the same
side you're backing up in with a neutral.   That way if starting the gen
and transferring would help you can detect it.
On Oct 23, 2014 2:38 PM, "Nate Burke via Af"  wrote:

>  On each terminal?  Or just a single 240v monitor?  That's the part I'm
> confused on.
>
> Let's take input AC1  There are 2 terminals.
>
> My electric panel has 2 120v legs.
>
> Do I run 1 leg into each terminal, with no neutral connection to the
> board, or 1 leg into 1 terminal, and a neutral into the other?
>
> Nate
>
>
> On 10/23/2014 4:29 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af wrote:
>
> The inputs are good for 240v.
> On Oct 23, 2014 2:06 PM, "Nate Burke via Af"  wrote:
>
>> I have a ticket into Packetflux support, but I thought someone here might
>> have hooked one up.
>>
>> On the AC inputs for monitoring line/generator voltage/frequency. Are the
>> 2 terminals on each AC input for hot/neutral wires?  I.E. only a single
>> phase 120v system.  Or can you run 2 hots into each input, for a 2
>> Wire120/240v system, and it will monitor each leg? Just wanted to ask
>> before I hook it up wrong and release some magic smoke.
>>
>> Nate
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cacti & SiteMonitor: What did I break?

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Before you do that I'd look at what is coming back via snap via a wireshark
or similar.

If you zeroed an expansion module in the middle of the list, then all of
the oids for devices after that entry in the list would have shifted to a
lower number.

The sitemonitor assigns oids based on its knowledge of how many of each i/o
type each device takes.  It remembers this even if the device isn't
attached anymore.  By zeroing a device in the middle, it reassigns oids
after that point in the table, since it doesn't have the zeroed device info
as a placeholder.
On Oct 24, 2014 12:01 PM, "Bill Prince via Af"  wrote:

>  You think you're confused.
>
> I did not change the community string, and it works from the CLI and/or
> through the realtime plugin.� The device shows as UP, and I use "SNMP or
> ping" as up/down detection.
>
> I also tried changing the SNMP timeout to 1000 ms.� All that did was
> change the error log to this:
>
> 10/24/2014 11:29:22 AM - SPINE: Poller[0] Host[703] TH[1] DS[12223]
> WARNING: SNMP timeout detected [1000 ms], ignoring host '10.13.114.254'
>
> I've tried "SNMP Uptime", "SNMP Desc", and "SNMP getNext" as well.� On
> the Device Management screen, it retrieves the correct SNMP information.�
> The only think that seems to not be working is the polling through spine.
>
> I'm curious why zeroing the serial number of a non-existent expansion unit
> caused this problem.
>
> I've also rebooted the SiteMonitor at least a couple of times to no effect.
>
> My next thing will be to just replace the SiteMonitor with a spare.�
> It's all the way down in town, so that is a half-day time hit.
>
> bp
>
> On 10/24/2014 11:16 AM, George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af wrote:
>
> I am thoroughly confused. Is your community string correct? Can you
> increase the device SNMP timeout, like 1000ms instead of 250ms. What's your
> device down detection set to? Is it showing down in the device list?
>
> I have seen some base units go kinda screwy and respond slower and a
> reboot doesn't fix it, they needed a power-cycle.
>
> On 10/24/2014 11:25 AM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:
>
> Now thrice.
>
> No joy in Mudville.
>
> bp
>
> On 10/24/2014 8:07 AM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:
>
> Yah.� Twice now.
>
> bp
>
> On 10/23/2014 11:06 PM, George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af wrote:
>
> Gotta be the poller cache. Did you try a rebuild?
>
> On 10/23/2014 11:03 PM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:
>
> Getting closer.� When I look in the SNMP cache, there is no entry for
> the device.
>
> Looking in the log (without debug), I get:
>
> 10/23/2014 08:34:25 PM - SPINE: Poller[0] Host[797
> ] TH[1] DS[12316
> ] WARNING:
> SNMP timeout detected [250 ms], ignoring host '10.13.114.254'
>
> So there is something causing the SNMP request to barf inside cacti.�
> When I do an snmpget from the CLI, it all looks fine.� Likewise, the
> realtime plugin is working fine too.
>
> So when realtime is doing the SNMP queries outside the poller, they are
> fine.� Just when spine is doing the SNMP requests.
>
>
> bp
>
> On 10/23/2014 4:12 PM, George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af wrote:
>
> You divided by zero, didn't you?
>
> Are you sure your modules are in the same order as before?
>
> On 10/23/2014 1:29 PM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:
>
>
> I noticed an "Expansion Unit" on one of my SiteMonitors this morning.�
> It said something about "Device Removed" or something like that.
>
> Remembering the discussion the other day on this topic, I put a "0" in the
> Serial # for the non-existent unit, rescanned, & rebooted.
>
> Now, none of the OIDs work in Cacti.� If I do a simple snmpget on any of
> the OIDs that I use, the correct information comes back. Several of the
> OIDs are on the base unit anyway, so they would not have moved, and
> further, the OIDs don't reference the serial number.
>
> So... what did I do, and how do I fix it?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cacti & SiteMonitor: What did I break?

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Darn autocorrect.  SNMP not snap.
On Oct 24, 2014 12:32 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> Before you do that I'd look at what is coming back via snap via a
> wireshark or similar.
>
> If you zeroed an expansion module in the middle of the list, then all of
> the oids for devices after that entry in the list would have shifted to a
> lower number.
>
> The sitemonitor assigns oids based on its knowledge of how many of each
> i/o type each device takes.  It remembers this even if the device isn't
> attached anymore.  By zeroing a device in the middle, it reassigns oids
> after that point in the table, since it doesn't have the zeroed device info
> as a placeholder.
> On Oct 24, 2014 12:01 PM, "Bill Prince via Af"  wrote:
>
>>  You think you're confused.
>>
>> I did not change the community string, and it works from the CLI and/or
>> through the realtime plugin.� The device shows as UP, and I use "SNMP or
>> ping" as up/down detection.
>>
>> I also tried changing the SNMP timeout to 1000 ms.� All that did was
>> change the error log to this:
>>
>> 10/24/2014 11:29:22 AM - SPINE: Poller[0] Host[703] TH[1] DS[12223]
>> WARNING: SNMP timeout detected [1000 ms], ignoring host '10.13.114.254'
>>
>> I've tried "SNMP Uptime", "SNMP Desc", and "SNMP getNext" as well.� On
>> the Device Management screen, it retrieves the correct SNMP information.�
>> The only think that seems to not be working is the polling through spine.
>>
>> I'm curious why zeroing the serial number of a non-existent expansion
>> unit caused this problem.
>>
>> I've also rebooted the SiteMonitor at least a couple of times to no
>> effect.
>>
>> My next thing will be to just replace the SiteMonitor with a spare.�
>> It's all the way down in town, so that is a half-day time hit.
>>
>> bp
>>
>> On 10/24/2014 11:16 AM, George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af wrote:
>>
>> I am thoroughly confused. Is your community string correct? Can you
>> increase the device SNMP timeout, like 1000ms instead of 250ms. What's your
>> device down detection set to? Is it showing down in the device list?
>>
>> I have seen some base units go kinda screwy and respond slower and a
>> reboot doesn't fix it, they needed a power-cycle.
>>
>> On 10/24/2014 11:25 AM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:
>>
>> Now thrice.
>>
>> No joy in Mudville.
>>
>> bp
>>
>> On 10/24/2014 8:07 AM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:
>>
>> Yah.� Twice now.
>>
>> bp
>>
>> On 10/23/2014 11:06 PM, George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af wrote:
>>
>> Gotta be the poller cache. Did you try a rebuild?
>>
>> On 10/23/2014 11:03 PM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:
>>
>> Getting closer.� When I look in the SNMP cache, there is no entry for
>> the device.
>>
>> Looking in the log (without debug), I get:
>>
>> 10/23/2014 08:34:25 PM - SPINE: Poller[0] Host[797
>> ] TH[1] DS[12316
>> ] WARNING:
>> SNMP timeout detected [250 ms], ignoring host '10.13.114.254'
>>
>> So there is something causing the SNMP request to barf inside cacti.�
>> When I do an snmpget from the CLI, it all looks fine.� Likewise, the
>> realtime plugin is working fine too.
>>
>> So when realtime is doing the SNMP queries outside the poller, they are
>> fine.� Just when spine is doing the SNMP requests.
>>
>>
>> bp
>>
>> On 10/23/2014 4:12 PM, George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af wrote:
>>
>> You divided by zero, didn't you?
>>
>> Are you sure your modules are in the same order as before?
>>
>> On 10/23/2014 1:29 PM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:
>>
>>
>> I noticed an "Expansion Unit" on one of my SiteMonitors this morning.�
>> It said something about "Device Removed" or something like that.
>>
>> Remembering the discussion the other day on this topic, I put a "0" in
>> the Serial # for the non-existent unit, rescanned, & rebooted.
>>
>> Now, none of the OIDs work in Cacti.� If I do a simple snmpget on any
>> of the OIDs that I use, the correct information comes back. Several of the
>> OIDs are on the base unit anyway, so they would not have moved, and
>> further, the OIDs don't reference the serial number.
>>
>> So... what did I do, and how do I fix it?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Cacti & SiteMonitor: What did I break?

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

A power cycle and a reboot should be identical in almost every case.  The
reboot actually triggers a hardware reset internally in the processor,
which should clear everything out.  Of course as soon as I say that it is
identical, someone will find an example where it is not.

I'm not where I can look at the trace you sent, but I'm surprised it
contains errors.  I do know that the unit will return a response which may
look like this if the oid is invalid.

Did you adjust your oids in cacti after the removal of the mystery
expansion unit from the table?  If not, this is likely the problem.

In regards to the unit being there grin the factory..  My guess is if you
had this unit listed in there from the get go, then it probably was the
expansion unit we use to test the expansion bus here.  It's supposed to be
factory reset before shipping but it would not shock me if it wasn't.   We
actually had a short period that a largish percentage went out not factory
reset due to a tester software issue.   Not really a problem but we hate to
have them go out in any other state.
On Oct 24, 2014 5:08 PM, "Bill Prince via Af"  wrote:

>  You mean from the web GUI?� Sure.
>
> I presume a power cycle does something different from a reboot?
>
> I was always curious about this particular SiteMonitor, as it came up with
> the extra device on the expansion bus from the get-go.� I'd never worried
> about it, and then I saw the discussion about getting rid of old devices
> with the zeroed-serial trick.
>
> Don't go there!� It's a trap!
>
> bp
>
> On 10/24/2014 2:52 PM, George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af wrote:
>
> Can you post a screenshot of your expansion, binary and analog tabs?
>
> Also, I bet if you power-cycle it, it will be fine again. I was working
> with Forrest on a bug where the SyncInjector and some other newer modules
> would mysteriously disappear from the bus. He was able to reproduce and get
> a fixed up firmware load for the modules. Something about one thing booting
> up faster than another, or something like that.
>
> On 10/24/2014 4:41 PM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:
>
> Gotcha!
>
> I removed all the Data Sources except one (PWR1).� Suddenly that data
> was making it into cacti.
>
> Then I added back in all the Data Sources coming _JUST_ from the
> SiteMonitor itself.� That also worked.
>
> Then I added in one of the Data Sources from the SyncInjector (sync
> events), which happens to be the only unit on the expansion bus past where
> I removed the non-existent unit.� This broke it again.
>
> So I have apparently uncovered a bug where removing a unit from the
> expansion bus (by zeroing the serial number) that causes the SiteMonitor to
> break SNMP responses.� I think it's probably just a bad checksum, but I
> will leave that up to him.� I forwarded the pcap trace to him.
>
> I will probably also swap out the SiteMonitor that has the problem.
>
> Thanks guys!
>
> bp
>
> On 10/24/2014 1:57 PM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:
>
> Then again
>
> Not sure why I didn't notice this the first (or second) time.� Wireshark
> is telling me I have a malformed packet; either a broken header or bad
> checksum.� So even though the SNMP response is coming in with the
> expected data, it's getting dropped before is gets into cacti because of
> the malformed packet.
>
> This would explain why removing a unit on the expansion bus changed
> things...
>
> bp
>
>
>
>
> On 10/24/2014 1:32 PM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:
>
> OK. Confirmed.� The SiteMonitor is getting the SNMP requests, and it is
> responding with the expected values.
>
> I ran a pcap trace both at the SiteMonitor as well as at the ethernet port
> on the cacti server.� SNMP requests/responses are going both ways (and at
> both ends). In fact, spine appears to be doing 3 retries.
>
> One thing I didn't expect is that just before the SNMP requests, there are
> two attempts to open a telnet on the SiteMonitor.� Not sure where that is
> coming from, except perhaps for the Manage plugin (which I de-installed
> several weeks ago).
>
> So something is broken inside cacti.� How/why this was caused by zeroing
> a serial number from a non-existent expansion unit is completely baffling
> to me.
>
> I also have no clue how to fix it, because cacti "thinks" there was no
> response.
>
> bp
>
> On 10/24/2014 11:16 AM, George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af wrote:
>
> I am thoroughly confused. Is your community string correct? Can you
> increase the device SNMP timeout, like 1000ms instead of 250ms. What's your
> device down detection set to? Is it showing down in the device list?
>
> I have seen some base units go kinda screwy and respond slower and a
> reboot doesn't fix it, they needed a power-cycle.
>
> On 10/24/2014 11:25 AM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:
>
> Now thrice.
>
> No joy in Mudville.
>
> bp
>
> On 10/24/2014 8:07 AM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:
>
> Yah.� Twice now.
>
> bp
>
> On 10/23/2014 11:06 PM, George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af 

Re: [AFMUG] Cacti & SiteMonitor: What did I break?

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

They should be offset by a fixed amount.  Ie subtract 4
On Oct 25, 2014 10:58 AM, "Bill Prince via Af"  wrote:

>  I think that may be it.  The OID I was using is no longer valid.  So the
> SNMP response that came back had numbers in it, but it also looks like the
> checksum was broken.
>
> Not clear to me why I thought I could do this without doing the index
> thing.
>
> I hate doing the index thing.
>
> bp
>
> On 10/24/2014 10:32 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af wrote:
>
> A power cycle and a reboot should be identical in almost every case.  The
> reboot actually triggers a hardware reset internally in the processor,
> which should clear everything out.  Of course as soon as I say that it is
> identical, someone will find an example where it is not.
>
> I'm not where I can look at the trace you sent, but I'm surprised it
> contains errors.  I do know that the unit will return a response which may
> look like this if the oid is invalid.
>
> Did you adjust your oids in cacti after the removal of the mystery
> expansion unit from the table?  If not, this is likely the problem.
>
> In regards to the unit being there grin the factory..  My guess is if you
> had this unit listed in there from the get go, then it probably was the
> expansion unit we use to test the expansion bus here.  It's supposed to be
> factory reset before shipping but it would not shock me if it wasn't.   We
> actually had a short period that a largish percentage went out not factory
> reset due to a tester software issue.   Not really a problem but we hate to
> have them go out in any other state.
> On Oct 24, 2014 5:08 PM, "Bill Prince via Af"  wrote:
>
>>  You mean from the web GUI?� Sure.
>>
>> I presume a power cycle does something different from a reboot?
>>
>> I was always curious about this particular SiteMonitor, as it came up
>> with the extra device on the expansion bus from the get-go.� I'd never
>> worried about it, and then I saw the discussion about getting rid of old
>> devices with the zeroed-serial trick.
>>
>> Don't go there!� It's a trap!
>>
>> bp
>>
>> On 10/24/2014 2:52 PM, George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af wrote:
>>
>> Can you post a screenshot of your expansion, binary and analog tabs?
>>
>> Also, I bet if you power-cycle it, it will be fine again. I was working
>> with Forrest on a bug where the SyncInjector and some other newer modules
>> would mysteriously disappear from the bus. He was able to reproduce and get
>> a fixed up firmware load for the modules. Something about one thing booting
>> up faster than another, or something like that.
>>
>> On 10/24/2014 4:41 PM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:
>>
>> Gotcha!
>>
>> I removed all the Data Sources except one (PWR1).� Suddenly that data
>> was making it into cacti.
>>
>> Then I added back in all the Data Sources coming _JUST_ from the
>> SiteMonitor itself.� That also worked.
>>
>> Then I added in one of the Data Sources from the SyncInjector (sync
>> events), which happens to be the only unit on the expansion bus past where
>> I removed the non-existent unit.� This broke it again.
>>
>> So I have apparently uncovered a bug where removing a unit from the
>> expansion bus (by zeroing the serial number) that causes the SiteMonitor to
>> break SNMP responses.� I think it's probably just a bad checksum, but I
>> will leave that up to him.� I forwarded the pcap trace to him.
>>
>> I will probably also swap out the SiteMonitor that has the problem.
>>
>> Thanks guys!
>>
>> bp
>>
>> On 10/24/2014 1:57 PM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:
>>
>> Then again
>>
>> Not sure why I didn't notice this the first (or second) time.�
>> Wireshark is telling me I have a malformed packet; either a broken header
>> or bad checksum.� So even though the SNMP response is coming in with the
>> expected data, it's getting dropped before is gets into cacti because of
>> the malformed packet.
>>
>> This would explain why removing a unit on the expansion bus changed
>> things...
>>
>> bp
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/24/2014 1:32 PM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:
>>
>> OK. Confirmed.� The SiteMonitor is getting the SNMP requests, and it is
>> responding with the expected values.
>>
>> I ran a pcap trace both at the SiteMonitor as well as at the ethernet
>> port on the cacti server.� SNMP requests/responses are going both ways
>> (and at both ends). In fa

Re: [AFMUG] Cacti & SiteMonitor: What did I break?

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Most people end up with a set of three or four configurations.  Ie
sitemonitor plus a injector is one configuration,  a sitemonitor by itself
is another one.

If you put the modules you don't ever monitor at the end of the list then
you can reuse configurations. Ie, a sitemonitor and syncinjector is the
same as a sitemonitor, syncinjector, and Poe as far as monitoring goes.
On Oct 25, 2014 1:06 PM, "Bill Prince via Af"  wrote:

>  OK.  I think I have an approach. The SiteMonitor plus all its expansion
> units is not the "device".
>
> The "device" is the SiteMonitor plus the index of the expansion unit.
>
> For example:
>
>- SiteMonitor, index 0 is the SiteMonitor device
>- SiteMonitor, index 1 is the 4-port POE device
>- SiteMonitor, index 2 is the SyncInjector (first instance)
> - SiteMonitor, index 3 is the SyncInjector (second instance)
>
> and so on.
>
> So when you add a SiteMonitor, you just add the SiteMonitor. If you add
> another Packetflux expansion unit, you have to add it knowing which index
> (AKA "slot") it is.  Put the device in a different position, and you need
> to update the index.
>
> bp
>
> On 10/25/2014 10:52 AM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:
>
> Yah.  Except that the index moves around, depending on what's in front of
> it (e.g. 4-port POE versus an 8-port POE).  So I can't depend on what index
> number I'll be using at any given installation.  The index name will have
> to stay static if I ever hope to find it.  Then again, if I install two of
> anything, there will be more than one index with the same description.
>
> Hmmm.  How to do this.   Maybe I do have to give each device a unique
> description, and then teach cacti to index on the unique description?
>
> bp
>
> On 10/25/2014 10:16 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af wrote:
>
> They should be offset by a fixed amount.  Ie subtract 4
> On Oct 25, 2014 10:58 AM, "Bill Prince via Af"  wrote:
>
>>  I think that may be it.  The OID I was using is no longer valid.  So
>> the SNMP response that came back had numbers in it, but it also looks like
>> the checksum was broken.
>>
>> Not clear to me why I thought I could do this without doing the index
>> thing.
>>
>> I hate doing the index thing.
>>
>> bp
>>
>> On 10/24/2014 10:32 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af wrote:
>>
>> A power cycle and a reboot should be identical in almost every case.  The
>> reboot actually triggers a hardware reset internally in the processor,
>> which should clear everything out.  Of course as soon as I say that it is
>> identical, someone will find an example where it is not.
>>
>> I'm not where I can look at the trace you sent, but I'm surprised it
>> contains errors.  I do know that the unit will return a response which may
>> look like this if the oid is invalid.
>>
>> Did you adjust your oids in cacti after the removal of the mystery
>> expansion unit from the table?  If not, this is likely the problem.
>>
>> In regards to the unit being there grin the factory..  My guess is if you
>> had this unit listed in there from the get go, then it probably was the
>> expansion unit we use to test the expansion bus here.  It's supposed to be
>> factory reset before shipping but it would not shock me if it wasn't.   We
>> actually had a short period that a largish percentage went out not factory
>> reset due to a tester software issue.   Not really a problem but we hate to
>> have them go out in any other state.
>> On Oct 24, 2014 5:08 PM, "Bill Prince via Af"  wrote:
>>
>>>  You mean from the web GUI?� Sure.
>>>
>>> I presume a power cycle does something different from a reboot?
>>>
>>> I was always curious about this particular SiteMonitor, as it came up
>>> with the extra device on the expansion bus from the get-go.� I'd never
>>> worried about it, and then I saw the discussion about getting rid of old
>>> devices with the zeroed-serial trick.
>>>
>>> Don't go there!� It's a trap!
>>>
>>> bp
>>>
>>> On 10/24/2014 2:52 PM, George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af wrote:
>>>
>>> Can you post a screenshot of your expansion, binary and analog tabs?
>>>
>>> Also, I bet if you power-cycle it, it will be fine again. I was working
>>> with Forrest on a bug where the SyncInjector and some other newer modules
>>> would mysteriously disappear from the bus. He was able to reproduce and get
>>> a fixed up firmwar

Re: [AFMUG] OT: LED bulbs at home

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

I've been replacing cf bulbs with the Cree led bulbs for about a year now.
Great bulbs, no failures yet.

One challenge with all of these devices is heat buildup in the fixture.
Enclosed or vertical fixtures trap the heat from the electronics, causing
the bulb temperature to rise, causing premature failure.  This is typically
the cause of cf early failure.  Haven't seen this yet with led bulbs.
On Nov 2, 2014 2:02 PM, "Harold Bledsoe via Af"  wrote:

> I've had good luck with Cree (no failures yet).  They are under $10
> typically for a 60w.
>
> -Hal
>
> On Sun, Nov 2, 2014 at 4:00 PM, Tyler Treat via Af  wrote:
>
>> Anyone using LED replacement bulbs in their house yet?
>>
>> Seems like a good idea for a couple lights I have that burn 24/7, but at
>> $20/bulb and the CFL debacle, I want to get this right the first time.
>>
>> ___
>> Mangled by my iPhone.
>> ___
>>
>> Tyler Treat
>> Corn Belt Technologies, Inc.
>>
>> tyler.tr...@cornbelttech.com
>> ___
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Harold Bledsoe
>

[AFMUG] Fiber up the tower questions.

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

For those of you who run fiber + DC up the tower

Do you run a separate fiber pair up the tower for each radio?  Or do you
mount an ethernet switch up top?  How do you do injection, eth switching,
etc...

I'm continually being asked to do a product to help with these fiber up the
tower builds, and as we don't generally bump into the 100M distance limit
in installs I've been involved with I'm at a bit of a loss understanding
how people typically wire this - or I guess would like to wire this.

Pictures would be great!

-forrest

[AFMUG] Favorite SFP vendors

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

It's time for me to acquire a range of SFP's here for development and
testing. Instead of me randomly going out and acquiring some, I figured a
smarter move was to ask here what everyone's favorite SFP vendors/model
numbers were and go and get a couple of the most commonly used ones.

So, what SFP's do each of you use in your network?

-forrest

Re: [AFMUG] Viva Kari Byron

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

I just watched the last episode myself tonight.  Haven't watched the entire
last season yet, just that particular episode sounded interesting.

Personally, as much as I'll miss the second build team, I suspect the
change will overall be positive.

The show over the years has for me lost some of it's charm as the teams
have gained experience.  Early on there was a lot of experimentation done
to figure out how to actually replicate a myth.  This either isn't done or
isn't shown anymore.  There seems to be a movement to.bring the
experimentation back.  If this is the direction they're taking then I can
see how a single build team can generate enough footage to fill a episode,
as I know that a lot of this type of footage already ends up on the cutting
room floor in the current format.

For me, my favorite recent episode involved shooting ping pong balls at a
very high velocity.  Adam started by using their old standby the air
cannon.  A little ways into the episode he discovered through research a
completely different method which worked even better by pulling a vacuum in
a tube.  This episode showed a lot of the experimentation necessary to
accomplish their goal of testing their ping pong ball myth, and as a result
came out being a lot like the early shows I really like.

That said, Somehow I don't think we've seen the last of Grant, Tori, and
Kari, who will definitely be missed.  But, if their departure paves the way
for an even better mythbusters, I'm all for it.
On Nov 11, 2014 7:50 AM, "Chuck McCown via Af"  wrote:

>   Screw Jamie and Adam, we watch for Kari:
>
> http://www.thepetitionsite.com/889/445/308/bring-kari-byron-and-the-build-team-back-to-mythbusters/
>
> I like Grant too, partially due to the fact he is the only one with an
> actual degree in science.
> Tory has a degree of Steve-O in him.
>

Re: [AFMUG] SiteMonitor Question

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

We have some firmware available to fix this.  Send a email into
cust...@packetflux.com to get a copy.
On Nov 13, 2014 5:16 PM, "Plexicomm Admin via Af"  wrote:

> So I have two SyncInjectors connected to this SiteMonitor. The second one
> will not communicate properly (see screen shot below). I tried rebooting
> the base, different jumpers, defaulting, no luck. All three items are brand
> new.
>
> Dan English
> Plexicomm - Internet Solutions
> d...@plexicomm.net | 1.866.759.4678 x103
> Fax: 1.866.852.4688 | Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] SiteMonitor Question

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Actually now I look more closely at the screenshots, this might not be the
issue the firmware fixes, but let's start there since that fix may also fix
this.
On Nov 14, 2014 7:31 AM, "Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af" <
af@afmug.com> wrote:

> We have some firmware available to fix this.  Send a email into
> cust...@packetflux.com to get a copy.
> On Nov 13, 2014 5:16 PM, "Plexicomm Admin via Af"  wrote:
>
>> So I have two SyncInjectors connected to this SiteMonitor. The second one
>> will not communicate properly (see screen shot below). I tried rebooting
>> the base, different jumpers, defaulting, no luck. All three items are brand
>> new.
>>
>> Dan English
>> Plexicomm - Internet Solutions
>> d...@plexicomm.net | 1.866.759.4678 x103
>> Fax: 1.866.852.4688 | Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713
>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] DC Power Plug

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

I'd take the projector to radio shack if at all possible and have a go with
the adaptaplug plugs.  They often have a set of wires with the ends on them
to try until one fits.  I'm guessing size H.

http://www.radioshack.com/enercell-adaptaplug-h/2730340.html

The inside diameter is almost always more critical than the outside.   The
H is a 1.3mm inside, 3.4mm outside diameter plug.

That can then be mated with something like:
http://www.radioshack.com/enercell-adaptaplug-power-cord-6-ft-/2730348.html#start=26&q=adaptaplug&sz=12

If that isn't an option, I'd try a 1.3x3.5mm plug which is a standard
size.  The hole for a 3.5 plug is typically around 4mm, which might be why
they're confused.  See:

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/cb-310/6-cable-with-1.3mm-coax-power-plug/1.html
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/dcp-13/1.3mm-dc-co-ax-power-plug/1.html
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kobiconn/171-3209/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtnOp%252bbbqA00%252brH%252bGhOEZAajCNZHgLVdrw%3d


On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 8:37 AM, Mike Hammett via Af  wrote:

> Does anyone know where I can find "a standard 4.0 x 1.3mm 12 Volt power
> port", preferably with a pigtail? It's for the screen trigger output on an
> InFocus projector. That's what InFocus support said I needed to use and
> that it's available in any local electronics store. Well, it's not at Radio
> Shack. Google sure isn't being a lot of help either.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Where I am - I being Chuck McCown

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Phew, I thought we (myself and Chuck) were somehow synchronized in our
media viewing.

First, I watched the same PVR'd episode of Mythbusters within a few hours
of Chuck.

Then, I'm checking my email after seeing Interstellar, only to be greeted
by Chuck's reviews of the same.

Fortunately, I'm not sitting in the Hunger Games tonight.

-forrest

On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 5:14 PM, Traci via Af  wrote:

>
>   Please post this to the list. I am so special...
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] SiteMonitor discovery IP or factory reset

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Unfortunately there's quite a few things which will break the tool.  I've
attached a .pdf which should cover all of them.  Make sure you have the
right tool as described, and if you have problems afterwards let me know.

-forrest


PacketFluxFactoryReset.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document

Re: [AFMUG] Packetflux Syncinjector - safe to run without SiteMonitor

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

They'll work just fine without a sitemonitor.

Early syncinjectors ran standalone.   They each had non-microcontroller
based timing hardware in them, and adding sitemonitor control added a fair
bit of cost.   For a brief period, we actually had a version with this
added on functionality, which we sold as a 'sitemonitor controlled
syncinjector'.

When we switched the design to the latest iteration (RevH), it was actually
cheaper to use a microcontroller to control all of the timing.  At which
point, having them be able to be controlled and monitored by a sitemonitor
was effectively free, so they got that capability by default, and the
separate sitemonitor controlled syncinjectors ceased to exist.

And as an aside, this 'work in standalone mode' is not confined to the
syncinjectors.  The vast majority of the sitemonitor products will actually
work without a base unit attached.  There's a couple which need a separate
power supply, and a couple that don't make sense to use in standalone, but
the rest are perfectly happy to do what they're supposed to without the
base unit.

-forrest

On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 2:00 PM, Josh Luthman via Af  wrote:

> I have a site where I'm providing DC up the tower and want to minimize
> products up there.  Has anyone actually needed to use the SiteMonitor
> to...monitor...the sync status and find that information useful?  I'm
> expecting it just simply stays synced and that's the end of it.
>
> On a side note I ordered two of them and didn't get this supposed din rail
> mounting kit.  Is that expected?
>
>
> http://store.packetflux.com/gigabit-syncinjector-for-24-volt-cambium-radios/
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>

Re: [AFMUG] Sync Pipe and UGPS Power

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

It's been a while since I looked at the uGPS and how it was powered, but
yes, that's the general gist.   I can't confirm the exact voltage or how
the power appeared on the pins since it has been so long since I looked.

I also can't remember the exact reason why I chose not to go down the path
of building a syncpipe which could be powered off of a uGPS port, other
than I have a vague recollection of the power supply circuitry being the
reason - probably because the 5v is significantly lower than the 8-9V that
a syncpipe will power on at.

Due to the PTP450 issue I am looking at some additional sync over timing
port options.   Gigabit throws a wrench into a lot of the parasitically
powered options, though.

On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Matt via Af  wrote:

> So when you enable UGPS Power in options what does it do?  Is 5 volt
> suddenly output on certain pins of the timing port?  What pins?
>
> > Nope. But you can use Forrest's SyncConverter to take the sync pulse
> from a
> > CMM/CTM/SyncInjector and convert it to timing port at the radio. Or just
> put
> > a Parasitic 'pipe on it.
> >
> > I asked Forrest about doing a SyncPipe that takes UGPS power. He said no.
> > Maybe the cost of the serial power circuit, I don't know.
> >
> >
> > On 11/24/2014 10:16 AM, Matt via Af wrote:
> >>
> >> I see the PTP230 and likely PTP450 have UGPS Power option.  Is there a
> >> way to use this to power up a sync pipe?  Still very very very
> >> disappointed the PTP450 does not support Sync over Power.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Sync Pipe and UGPS Power

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

I didn't realize the PTP450 didn't have gigabit ethernet in it.  In that
case, there's always a syncpipe parasitic.   Yes, one more (short) cable,
but functionally similar to the uGPS.I.E. uGPS = cable from poe
injector to radio and cable from radio to uGPS.  Parasitic = cable from PoE
injector to parasitic, and *2* cables from parasitic to the radio.

In the case where there's a syncinjector on site, you could also replace a
syncpipe basic with a syncpipe deluxe and get two timing ports (or with a
syncbox 12 to get 12 timing ports), and still use the same GPS source as
everything else.  There is also the option of building a long version of
the cable described at:
http://manuals.packetflux.com/index.php?page=using-a-syncpipe-parasitic-with-a-syncinjector
and running it from the sync expasnion output on the last syncinjector.

-forrest

On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 8:11 PM, George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af <
af@afmug.com> wrote:

>  I don't think it would be a bad idea to have a SyncPipe type device
> powered by UGPS capable radios. Less cabling is a benefit. If
> sync-over-power takes a shit on an AP, it would be easy to toss a UGPS-like
> receiver on it. Etc. I think if it was the cost of a Basic pipe, that would
> be fine.
>
> And the PTP450 being SM hardware based, there's no GigE to worry about. It
> really sounds like Cambium needs to do a separate hardware spin for the
> PTP450 like they did for the 230 and add sync-over-power.
>
> On 11/24/2014 6:58 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af wrote:
>
> It's been a while since I looked at the uGPS and how it was powered, but
> yes, that's the general gist.   I can't confirm the exact voltage or how
> the power appeared on the pins since it has been so long since I looked.
>
>  I also can't remember the exact reason why I chose not to go down the
> path of building a syncpipe which could be powered off of a uGPS port,
> other than I have a vague recollection of the power supply circuitry being
> the reason - probably because the 5v is significantly lower than the 8-9V
> that a syncpipe will power on at.
>
>  Due to the PTP450 issue I am looking at some additional sync over timing
> port options.   Gigabit throws a wrench into a lot of the parasitically
> powered options, though.
>
> On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Matt via Af  wrote:
>
>> So when you enable UGPS Power in options what does it do?  Is 5 volt
>> suddenly output on certain pins of the timing port?  What pins?
>>
>> > Nope. But you can use Forrest's SyncConverter to take the sync pulse
>> from a
>> > CMM/CTM/SyncInjector and convert it to timing port at the radio. Or
>> just put
>> > a Parasitic 'pipe on it.
>> >
>> > I asked Forrest about doing a SyncPipe that takes UGPS power. He said
>> no.
>> > Maybe the cost of the serial power circuit, I don't know.
>> >
>> >
>> > On 11/24/2014 10:16 AM, Matt via Af wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I see the PTP230 and likely PTP450 have UGPS Power option.  Is there a
>> >> way to use this to power up a sync pipe?  Still very very very
>> >> disappointed the PTP450 does not support Sync over Power.
>>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Sync Pipe and UGPS Power

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Yes.  The Ethernet ports are.
On Nov 25, 2014 6:54 AM, "Matt via Af"  wrote:

> > I didn't realize the PTP450 didn't have gigabit ethernet in it.  In that
> > case, there's always a syncpipe parasitic.   Yes, one more (short) cable,
> > but functionally similar to the uGPS.I.E. uGPS = cable from poe
> injector
> > to radio and cable from radio to uGPS.  Parasitic = cable from PoE
> injector
> > to parasitic, and *2* cables from parasitic to the radio.
> >
> > In the case where there's a syncinjector on site, you could also replace
> a
> > syncpipe basic with a syncpipe deluxe and get two timing ports (or with a
> > syncbox 12 to get 12 timing ports), and still use the same GPS source as
> > everything else.  There is also the option of building a long version of
> the
> > cable described at:
> >
> http://manuals.packetflux.com/index.php?page=using-a-syncpipe-parasitic-with-a-syncinjector
> > and running it from the sync expasnion output on the last syncinjector.
>
> Does the syncpipe parasitic have shielded ethernet ports?
>

Re: [AFMUG] SiteMonitor discovery IP or factory reset

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Josh,

The program runs just fine on every modern windows version. My development
computer is on 7.x until I replace it sometime in the next few months.
The test computers are all on a mix of 7 and 8.  My laptop runs 8.0 (can't
get it to upgrade to 8.1).

I think what needs to happen is Microsoft and every other windows firewall
vendor needs to fix their *@#($* tcp/ip stack/firewall so someone needing
to write a program to send and receive a multicast packet under windows can
actually do so in a reliable, consistent fashion.   Under XP, making this
happen was straightforward.   Each successive windows version has made it
more difficult, and in some cases the necessary tools to make it work
consistently are simply not exposed in the windows API - especially when
you have a third party firewall involved.

The bootloader on the next iteration of the sitemonitor won't use multicast
for this reason.  Unfortunately, we're stuck with it for the Base and Base
II units.

For the base II, there's a new version of the upgrade tool up at
http://manuals.packetflux.com/index.php?page=base-unit-ii-firmware which
tries to work through some of the more common firewall issues.

In addition, there is always the possibility that the ethernet port in the
affected units have failed.   At least for the Base II, if you want to send
an email in to cust...@packetflux.com with the serial number and address
ifnormation, we'll issue a UPS call tag to pick up the unit and test it
here, fix it, and ship it back to you all at our cost. If you want to
include the original base unit in the package with a note 'please factory
reset if possible - see Forrest' attached to it, we'll also factory reset
that one if possible and ship it back to you - we just won't be able to do
any hardware fixes on it if that's what is needed.

-forrest


On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 12:35 PM, Josh Luthman via Af  wrote:

> Well if the option is newer laptop with bigger screen, memory, speed, etc
> or working with PacketfluxI think Packetflux needs to fix their program
> on Windows
>
> *duck*
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Bill Prince via Af  wrote:
>
>>  I don't argue with things that work.
>>
>> --
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 11/26/2014 11:03 AM, Josh Luthman via Af wrote:
>>
>> That's so 2001...and they're all tossed/sold/gone
>>
>>
>>  Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 1:34 PM, Bill Prince via Af  wrote:
>>
>>>  Maybe why it works for me.  My field laptop is Windows XP.  An old
>>> reliable dog.
>>>
>>> --
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>  On 11/26/2014 6:02 AM, Shayne Lebrun via Af wrote:
>>>
>>>  Find an old laptop running windows XP or (even better) Windows 2000.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
>>> Behalf Of *Josh Luthman via Af
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 26, 2014 8:38 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SiteMonitor discovery IP or factory reset
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I tried one of each.  No combo worked.
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Nov 26, 2014 8:34 AM, "Jeremy via Af"  wrote:
>>>
>>> Yeah, I must have missed that part.  Is this one of the old site
>>> monitors?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 6:04 AM, Josh Luthman via Af 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> That was a base2 though right?
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Nov 26, 2014 12:59 AM, "Jeremy via Af"  wrote:
>>>
>>> I actually had to use this tool on a site tonight.  I used the new
>>> Ethernet Upgrade Tool for windows, was directly connected to the Ethernet
>>> port on my laptop.  I pressed 'yeah I have read the blah blah blah' and
>>> then hit discover, it told me to reboot.  I disconnected power 1 and 2 for
>>> a sec and when I plugged it back in it gave me the IP.  Then I couldn't
>>> figure out the SNMP so I had to use it again to reset, same process.  It
>

Re: [AFMUG] SiteMonitor discovery IP or factory reset

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Is this one of the old site
>>>> monitors?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 6:04 AM, Josh Luthman via Af 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> That was a base2 though right?
>>>>
>>>> Josh Luthman
>>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>>> Suite 1337
>>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 26, 2014 12:59 AM, "Jeremy via Af"  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I actually had to use this tool on a site tonight.  I used the new
>>>> Ethernet Upgrade Tool for windows, was directly connected to the Ethernet
>>>> port on my laptop.  I pressed 'yeah I have read the blah blah blah' and
>>>> then hit discover, it told me to reboot.  I disconnected power 1 and 2 for
>>>> a sec and when I plugged it back in it gave me the IP.  Then I couldn't
>>>> figure out the SNMP so I had to use it again to reset, same process.  It
>>>> worked perfectly both times.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 7:28 AM, Josh Luthman via Af 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Not sure what email address to use offlist...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've done all that several times to confirm.  I also went straight to
>>>> the NIC as well as trying a Netgear dumb switch (it had link light, doesn't
>>>> specify speed/duplex).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Josh Luthman
>>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>>> Suite 1337
>>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 3:33 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) via
>>>> Af  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately there's quite a few things which will break the tool.
>>>> I've attached a .pdf which should cover all of them.  Make sure you have
>>>> the right tool as described, and if you have problems afterwards let me
>>>> know.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -forrest
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP and/or Gig SyncInjector problems

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

See http://tickets.packetflux.com/kb/faq.php?id=2

6 blinks = power missing/too low.

And yes, you need a syncpipe.

-forrest

On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 6:46 PM, Josh Luthman via Af  wrote:

> Here's a video, not sure what the blinking means?
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dME8A-H_590
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 8:39 PM, Josh Luthman via Af  wrote:
>
>> *rb2011 with ports 2/3/4/5 set to hardware switch (ether2 master, 3/4/5
>> slave).  Ports 6/7/8/9 are hardware switch (ether6 master, 7/8/9 slave).
>> *From the rb2011 it goes to the Ethernet half of the SyncInjector.
>> *From the POE half of the SyncInjector it goes to WB gigeapc HV surge
>> suppressors and then to the ePMP radios.
>>
>> Two of the ePMP radios are powered up and running gige.  Neither are
>> receiving CMM sync (top of the ePMP says "Not receiving GPS sync").  The
>> remaining 6 APs aren't even powering up/linking up.  Any ideas before I
>> start swapping parts?  Is it OK to have the surge between SyncInjectors and
>> ePMP?
>>
>> On top of all of this the SiteMonitor isn't talking to the POE injector
>> or the two Gig SyncInjectors.  I have them all daisy chained and verified
>> they're snapped in place.  The POE injector is powering Ubnt radios just
>> fine.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP and/or Gig SyncInjector problems

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

There isn't a replaceable fuse inside.  Generally water damage ends up
corroding something which needs to be replaced.

Right now, our warranty repairs seem to have dwindled to "no defect found",
lightning damage (good for engineering future products), and water damage
causing connector corrosion (not sure what we can do to fix this problem).
I'm also not quite sure what to do with the water damaged ones since that
isn't really a product defect or something we are able to fix in future
products through engineering.

On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 3:24 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af  wrote:

>   I’ve popped a couple SyncInjectors due to water in one of the jacks
> (mounted with jacks facing up, I’ll never do that again).  I take it
> there’s a replaceable fuse inside?  I’ll have to open them up and see if I
> can fix them.
>
>  *From:* Josh Luthman via Af 
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 29, 2014 3:55 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP and/or Gig SyncInjector problems
>
>  So I just got back...fuse popped on that SyncInjector.  Not sure why.
> There was a Ubnt Beam on it - the cable was moved to the POE injector and
> fuse replaced.  SyncInjector is working as expected right now.
>
> Sure hoping Forrest can do next day shipping on Monday =)
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 3:39 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af <
> af@afmug.com> wrote:
>
>> See http://tickets.packetflux.com/kb/faq.php?id=2
>>
>> 6 blinks = power missing/too low.
>>
>> And yes, you need a syncpipe.
>>
>> -forrest
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 6:46 PM, Josh Luthman via Af 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Here's a video, not sure what the blinking means?
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dME8A-H_590
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>>  On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 8:39 PM, Josh Luthman via Af 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> *rb2011 with ports 2/3/4/5 set to hardware switch (ether2 master, 3/4/5
>>>> slave).  Ports 6/7/8/9 are hardware switch (ether6 master, 7/8/9 slave).
>>>> *From the rb2011 it goes to the Ethernet half of the SyncInjector.
>>>> *From the POE half of the SyncInjector it goes to WB gigeapc HV surge
>>>> suppressors and then to the ePMP radios.
>>>>
>>>> Two of the ePMP radios are powered up and running gige.  Neither are
>>>> receiving CMM sync (top of the ePMP says "Not receiving GPS sync").  The
>>>> remaining 6 APs aren't even powering up/linking up.  Any ideas before I
>>>> start swapping parts?  Is it OK to have the surge between SyncInjectors and
>>>> ePMP?
>>>>
>>>> On top of all of this the SiteMonitor isn't talking to the POE injector
>>>> or the two Gig SyncInjectors.  I have them all daisy chained and verified
>>>> they're snapped in place.  The POE injector is powering Ubnt radios just
>>>> fine.
>>>>
>>>> Josh Luthman
>>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>>> Suite 1337
>>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP and/or Gig SyncInjector problems

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

I'd have to look to see what the actual threshold is.  BUT... 2A is my
recollection as well since we have people  using these at 12V, and at that
low of a voltage the current goes up dramatically.

There are only limited cases where any fuse will blow before the
overcurrent protection.  It all depends on the speed of the fuse and the
current being drawn.

-forrest

On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 4:10 PM, George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af <
af@afmug.com> wrote:

>  Well if you plugged an UBNT radio into the SyncInjector, that will do
> it. Wrong polarity. What size fuse did you have on it? I'm putting 3A fuses
> on mine. Probably should just use 5A because 3A might be too small if I
> have four 3GHz 450APs on one injector. I think the SyncInjector solid-state
> overcurrent protection is 2A per port?
>
> On 11/29/2014 4:27 PM, Josh Luthman via Af wrote:
>
> Not that I'm aware of.  It was one of the fuses I have between my 24vdc
> supply and SyncInjectors, POE injectors, MTs, SiteMonitor.  All 8 other
> fuses were fine, not sure what made this one pop.  Running all day at this
> point...
>
>
>  Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 5:24 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af  wrote:
>
>>   I’ve popped a couple SyncInjectors due to water in one of the jacks
>> (mounted with jacks facing up, I’ll never do that again).  I take it
>> there’s a replaceable fuse inside?  I’ll have to open them up and see if I
>> can fix them.
>>
>>  *From:* Josh Luthman via Af 
>>  *Sent:* Saturday, November 29, 2014 3:55 PM
>>  *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP and/or Gig SyncInjector problems
>>
>>   So I just got back...fuse popped on that SyncInjector.  Not sure why.
>> There was a Ubnt Beam on it - the cable was moved to the POE injector and
>> fuse replaced.  SyncInjector is working as expected right now.
>>
>> Sure hoping Forrest can do next day shipping on Monday =)
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 3:39 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> See http://tickets.packetflux.com/kb/faq.php?id=2
>>>
>>> 6 blinks = power missing/too low.
>>>
>>> And yes, you need a syncpipe.
>>>
>>> -forrest
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 6:46 PM, Josh Luthman via Af 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Here's a video, not sure what the blinking means?
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dME8A-H_590
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Josh Luthman
>>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>>> Suite 1337
>>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>>
>>>>   On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 8:39 PM, Josh Luthman via Af 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> *rb2011 with ports 2/3/4/5 set to hardware switch (ether2 master,
>>>>> 3/4/5 slave).  Ports 6/7/8/9 are hardware switch (ether6 master, 7/8/9
>>>>> slave).
>>>>> *From the rb2011 it goes to the Ethernet half of the SyncInjector.
>>>>> *From the POE half of the SyncInjector it goes to WB gigeapc HV surge
>>>>> suppressors and then to the ePMP radios.
>>>>>
>>>>> Two of the ePMP radios are powered up and running gige.  Neither are
>>>>> receiving CMM sync (top of the ePMP says "Not receiving GPS sync").  The
>>>>> remaining 6 APs aren't even powering up/linking up.  Any ideas before I
>>>>> start swapping parts?  Is it OK to have the surge between SyncInjectors 
>>>>> and
>>>>> ePMP?
>>>>>
>>>>> On top of all of this the SiteMonitor isn't talking to the POE
>>>>> injector or the two Gig SyncInjectors.  I have them all daisy chained and
>>>>> verified they're snapped in place.  The POE injector is powering Ubnt
>>>>> radios just fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Josh Luthman
>>>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>>>> Suite 1337
>>>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT I must be bored today

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

About the only place I'll have change the oil anymore is when I take the
car in for the major service interval at the dealer.   They carry the oil I
use and I figure a genuine Subaru oil filter isn't any worse than the
M1-108's I use normally.

Other than that, it gets changed at home anymore.  I've discovered that
throwing a pan under the car and pulling the oil/plug filter takes so
little time that it's actually faster for me to do it.   I generally will
do it before a trip out of town and will pull the oil filter/plug and then
clean/vaccum the car out while the oil is draining.   Once I'm done
vaccumming, I put everything back together and refill the car with an
appropriate amount of oil.  Takes me less time than waiting at an instant
lube place, and then I know what oil/filter is actually in/on the engine.

Sadly, I haven't found anything fun drawn on my car's oil filter when it
comes from the dealer.


On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 1:17 PM, Rory Conaway via Af  wrote:

> We bring Mobil 1 oil filters in when we have the local oil change place
> change the oil.  Last oil change, neither my car or the work van had them
> on their when I looked about 3000 miles after the change.  After some
> heated discussions concerning the theft of my oil filters and shenanigans
> that might require a review of whether they are really using Mobil1 1 oil,
> they changed both vehicles while I watched them open new bottles of oil in
> front of me.  Fortunately this was the first time I used them, and the last
> time.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via
> Af
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 29, 2014 12:27 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT I must be bored today
>
>
>
> A local guy went out to change his oil today.  Found a penis drawn on his
> oil filter.  That filter had been installed by Jiffy Lube.
>
>
>
> Same company that billed us for an oil change a few  years ago (fleet
> account) for a car that my business partner’s step daughter crashed and
> totaled a year before.
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT I must be bored today

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Mine unfortunately is on the bottom right next to the drain plug.   I've
seen pictures of the top one and how easy it is.  Mine not so much.  I am
getting to the point where I don't make near the mess I used to, guess I'm
getting used to where it drains.
On Nov 29, 2014 5:52 PM, "Ken Hohhof via Af"  wrote:

>   So on the Subaru engine the oil filter sticks straight up.  Does that
> make it incredibly easy to change or incredibly messy?
>
>  *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af 
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 29, 2014 5:48 PM
> *To:* af 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT I must be bored today
>
>  About the only place I'll have change the oil anymore is when I take the
> car in for the major service interval at the dealer.   They carry the oil I
> use and I figure a genuine Subaru oil filter isn't any worse than the
> M1-108's I use normally.
>
> Other than that, it gets changed at home anymore.  I've discovered that
> throwing a pan under the car and pulling the oil/plug filter takes so
> little time that it's actually faster for me to do it.   I generally will
> do it before a trip out of town and will pull the oil filter/plug and then
> clean/vaccum the car out while the oil is draining.   Once I'm done
> vaccumming, I put everything back together and refill the car with an
> appropriate amount of oil.  Takes me less time than waiting at an instant
> lube place, and then I know what oil/filter is actually in/on the engine.
>
> Sadly, I haven't found anything fun drawn on my car's oil filter when it
> comes from the dealer.
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 1:17 PM, Rory Conaway via Af  wrote:
>
>>  We bring Mobil 1 oil filters in when we have the local oil change place
>> change the oil.  Last oil change, neither my car or the work van had them
>> on their when I looked about 3000 miles after the change.  After some
>> heated discussions concerning the theft of my oil filters and shenanigans
>> that might require a review of whether they are really using Mobil1 1 oil,
>> they changed both vehicles while I watched them open new bottles of oil in
>> front of me.  Fortunately this was the first time I used them, and the last
>> time.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via
>> Af
>> *Sent:* Saturday, November 29, 2014 12:27 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT I must be bored today
>>
>>
>>
>> A local guy went out to change his oil today.  Found a penis drawn on his
>> oil filter.  That filter had been installed by Jiffy Lube.
>>
>>
>>
>> Same company that billed us for an oil change a few  years ago (fleet
>> account) for a car that my business partner’s step daughter crashed and
>> totaled a year before.
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT I must be bored today

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Mine goes back in the five quart container until the next recycling run to
the dump.  They have a spot you just drop it off. Easy.
On Nov 29, 2014 7:15 PM, "Rory Conaway via Af"  wrote:

> The biggest problem with home oil changes is getting rid of the oil.  I
> used to do it but every time I would go to Auto Zone, Checker, etc…  Their
> oil drum was always full.  I finally gave up and just get the free car wash
> when I do it.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout via Af
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 29, 2014 6:09 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT I must be bored today
>
>
>
> http://www.fumotousa.com/about-fumoto-valves.php
>
> On Nov 29, 2014 5:01 PM, "Josh Luthman via Af"  wrote:
>
> You do the plug first...
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Nov 29, 2014 7:52 PM, "Ken Hohhof via Af"  wrote:
>
> So on the Subaru engine the oil filter sticks straight up.  Does that make
> it incredibly easy to change or incredibly messy?
>
>
>
> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af 
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 29, 2014 5:48 PM
>
> *To:* af 
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT I must be bored today
>
>
>
> About the only place I'll have change the oil anymore is when I take the
> car in for the major service interval at the dealer.   They carry the oil I
> use and I figure a genuine Subaru oil filter isn't any worse than the
> M1-108's I use normally.
>
>
>
> Other than that, it gets changed at home anymore.  I've discovered that
> throwing a pan under the car and pulling the oil/plug filter takes so
> little time that it's actually faster for me to do it.   I generally will
> do it before a trip out of town and will pull the oil filter/plug and then
> clean/vaccum the car out while the oil is draining.   Once I'm done
> vaccumming, I put everything back together and refill the car with an
> appropriate amount of oil.  Takes me less time than waiting at an instant
> lube place, and then I know what oil/filter is actually in/on the engine.
>
>
>
> Sadly, I haven't found anything fun drawn on my car's oil filter when it
> comes from the dealer.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 1:17 PM, Rory Conaway via Af  wrote:
>
> We bring Mobil 1 oil filters in when we have the local oil change place
> change the oil.  Last oil change, neither my car or the work van had them
> on their when I looked about 3000 miles after the change.  After some
> heated discussions concerning the theft of my oil filters and shenanigans
> that might require a review of whether they are really using Mobil1 1 oil,
> they changed both vehicles while I watched them open new bottles of oil in
> front of me.  Fortunately this was the first time I used them, and the last
> time.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via
> Af
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 29, 2014 12:27 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT I must be bored today
>
>
>
> A local guy went out to change his oil today.  Found a penis drawn on his
> oil filter.  That filter had been installed by Jiffy Lube.
>
>
>
> Same company that billed us for an oil change a few  years ago (fleet
> account) for a car that my business partner’s step daughter crashed and
> totaled a year before.
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Grow Room

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Just curious why spruce trees?  Last time I checked you can buy seedlings
at like a quarter each in quantity.
On Nov 29, 2014 10:18 AM, "Chuck McCown via Af"  wrote:

>   Got my turbo cloner yesterday.  Almost zero instructions.
> Do you just let these things spray 2/7?  Do you cycle the lights?
>
> I figured there had to be at least one hydroponic person here...
>
> (Don’t get excited, that Mormon guy is attempting to clone spruce trees...)
>

Re: [AFMUG] ERPS: G.8032 vs Brocade MRP vs ?

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Do you really need something faster than one of the spanning tree variants?

The topology at Montana Internet is to have a layer 3 switch at each site
and a big flat rapid spanning tree ring for all of the OSPF speaking layer
3 switches (Aka routers) to talk on.   If I yank a ring cable, I lose about
a second on two is all.

-forrest

On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 11:11 PM, Scott Vander Dussen via Af 
wrote:

> Looking to add Ethernet ring protection switching into our network.  I've
> attached a PDF demonstrating the topology of the test tower set.  I'm
> leaning toward a G.8032v2 implementation simply because it's ITU standards
> based and not vendor specific.  Other options include Brocade MRP, Moxa
> Turbo Chain, etc.  Any shared wisdom would be greatly appreciate before we
> get ourselves pot committed.
>
> Scott
>

[AFMUG] favorite/decent dielectric grease?

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

After another round of going through a couple of months of customer
returns, and the biggest issues are corrosion related to moisture getting
in the connectors, I'm ready to either start shipping a little tube with
dielectric grease with certain products, or make larger containers
available for sale, or some combination thereof.

Before I select a vendor I want to make sure that there isn't a known
'best' brand or even more important - some brand which causes problems.

So, for those of you who do this, please let me know what your experiences
are in relation to this.

In relation, what is everyone's experience as far as the correct amount
goes?

Thanks.

-forrest

Re: [AFMUG] favorite/decent dielectric grease? / thread jack

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Looking at it now.  As I'm about spent for tonight you'll probably get a
reply fairly early tomorrow morning.

-forrest

On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 10:05 PM, George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af <
af@afmug.com> wrote:

> Hey Forrest, I hate to hijack, but can you take a look at the ticket I
> have open (229631)?
>
> On 12/3/2014 9:15 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af wrote:
>
>> After another round of going through a couple of months of customer
>> returns, and the biggest issues are corrosion related to moisture getting
>> in the connectors, I'm ready to either start shipping a little tube with
>> dielectric grease with certain products, or make larger containers
>> available for sale, or some combination thereof.
>>
>> Before I select a vendor I want to make sure that there isn't a known
>> 'best' brand or even more important - some brand which causes problems.
>>
>> So, for those of you who do this, please let me know what your
>> experiences are in relation to this.
>>
>> In relation, what is everyone's experience as far as the correct amount
>> goes?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> -forrest
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Animal Farm registration NOW OPEN!

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Yes, I'll be doing something after.  Suggestions Welcome.

I will be a bit late showing up.  Long story short:  Trying to sell a chunk
of property, needs a variance to do so, public hearing for it is the
evening of Feb 3rd.  Just glad it was the 3rd and not the 4th or 5th.

So I won't be in SLC until sometime after my flight arrives on the 4th.
Travel gods permitting, my flight will arrive around 8am, add whatever time
to that it takes me to get out of the airport and to the fairgrounds...

-forrest



On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 7:47 AM, Chuck McCown via Af  wrote:

>   We love to get all the help we can get.  Thanks!
>
> And yes, the University of Forrest aftershow is always a hit.
>
>  *From:* Nate Burke via Af 
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 04, 2014 7:45 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Animal Farm registration NOW OPEN!
>
> Just looking to get travel booked, but I know it may be early for these
> kinds of questions.
>
> Chuck, do you need help setting up the day before like last year?  I have
> no problem coming in a day early to help with that.
>
> Forrest, are you doing some training the morning after?  That couple hours
> of you explaining the programming with the generator board last time was SO
> helpful when I went to hook mine up.
>
> Nate
>
> On 12/4/2014 8:27 AM, Chuck McCown via Af wrote:
>
>  Taylor Swift is doing the halftime show this year.
> Chuck Macenski and Gino will be backing her up.
> Jerry Garcia will be there too!
>
>  *From:* Daniel White via Af 
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 04, 2014 7:08 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Animal Farm registration NOW OPEN!
>
>
> Can’t wait to see everyone there!
>
>
>
> [image: cid:image001.jpg@01CE2975.BD4B6370]
>
> *Daniel White* | Managing Director
>
> *SAF North America LLC*
>
>
>
> *Cell:*
>
>
>
> (303) 746-3590
>
> *Skype:*
>
> danieldwhite
>
> *E-mail:*
>
> daniel.wh...@saftehnika.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Traci via Af
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 3, 2014 4:22 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Animal Farm registration NOW OPEN!
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] APC Protectnet

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Since wbmfg started producing theirs, we now recommend them.   The pnetnet6
worked great with 24v cambium, but the wbmfg products are better.

You want the high voltage gigabit version at this point.
On Dec 18, 2014 8:49 AM, "Ryan Mano via Af"  wrote:

>  Has anyone replaced their moto surges with these?
>
>
> http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=PNETR6&tab=models
>
>
>
> I use a lot of the packetflux syncinjectors at my towers and it’s a
> recommend surge that packetflux says to use instead of the moto surges
>
>
>
> I have a ptp 230 that has tons of crc errors that just happened recently
> and am wondering if this would help it…we checked the cables and the moto
> surge and all is find so am thinking it maybe due to this
>
>
>
> Anyone else tried out these surges?
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Syncbox 12 unshielded jacks

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

The reason the syncbox 12 jacks are unshieled is exactly the same reason
why none of the poe injectors currently have shielded jacks

For some reason top loaded shielded jacks are not very common and when you
do find a supplier they are very expensive and have long lead times.
Neither of which are really compatible with the price point we're trying to
hit.

The good news is that I've found a source for these which I trust and has
them readily available.  Because it's going to take a board revision
getting them added to the products, it is not going to happen as quickly as
I would have liked.   This is a recent enough development that I don't even
have a good estimate yet of when we'll be switching.   It will be driven by
when we will be running out of old boards and/or connectors.
On Dec 19, 2014 1:27 PM, "Ken Hohhof via Af"  wrote:

> Hey Forrest, any particular reason the parasitic passthrough jacks on the
> Syncbox 12 aren't shielded?
>
> Am I the only one who wants the shield ground to be continuous all the way
> to the AP?  I'm not sure about grounding the Syncbox circuitry itself,
> that's your stuff so I'm sure you know whether it should be grounded or
> not, I'm just concerned whether breaking the shield continuity to the AP is
> a bad idea.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Oh holy oracle of AF

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

We are a Samsung family here.  I have a note 3 and deb has a S5.  No
problems at all. Definitely recommend either one.  Can't speak for the
lower end phones.
On Dec 20, 2014 12:16 PM, "Chuck McCown via Af"  wrote:

>   Huge holiday discussion at my house.  Two members of the family need
> new phones.
>
> I have never been a big Apple fan but the only smart phone I have ever
> owned is an iPhone 4.
> Still have it.  Charge it once a week.  Fat, dumb and happy.
>
> Wife uses a Samsung Galaxy Infuse and needs a new phone.
> I have some kids that have iPhones and we all like the find friends apps
> so we can spy on each other.
> One kid has lost his phone and needs a new one.  That kid and my wife are
> shopping for phones and plans.  Kid is OK with Apple products.  His mother
> has anxiety about leaving Android.  Kinda like I want her to vote Democrat
> or join PETA...
>
> (Which is totally weird as I associate Apple with Birkenstock wearing,
> Dreadlocks, Cigarette Smoking, BA degrees, Wine, Liberal, Democrat, Tree
> Hugger and folks that use crystals to align their chakras).
>
> We are all on a pay as  you go “mobile value share” plan with AT&T.
>
> No matter what we decide I get to pay.  The new phones are pretty
> expensive.  But they will amortize depending on the plan.
> Too lazy to even attempt to understand the plans from the different
> carriers, the different phones, etc etc.
>
> I have used less than 0.01 GB of data in the last month.  Phone are for
> talking on.  But I realize that my buggy whip factory stock is probably
> worthless too.  So my opinion as to features is irrelevant as I still read
> books printed on plant matter.  (I do like the built in camera and a solar
> panel orientation and location app) (And a hymn book...)
>
> But I would like to get a good value.  I care more about price than
> features or OS.  Not so the rest of the clan.  (As in Scottish Clan,  OK,
> not Klan).So if anyone can help me pick a direction It  would be
> appreciated.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium CMM4

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Just curious, what are you paying for the CMM4s?
On Dec 27, 2014 8:21 PM, "David Milholen via Af"  wrote:

>  I have CTM2 at some sites..
>  I like the pricing I get with the CMM4 and I also like the gui better.
> I also dont have issues with management interface wanting to stop working.
>  Also CTM is geared toward a universal crowd of devices I want the error
> free
> interfaces that the CMM4 has to offer with use of the 450 platform.
> Nothing against  Lastmile whatsoever they make great stuff and I have
> purchased bunches
> of gear over the life of our wisp but since I have deployed the cmm4 units
> at sites where I had
> ctm1 series my problems of ethernet errors and weird interface issues
> disappeared.
>  The CMM4 is a perfect match for cambium gear. It just outdated as far as
> the portfolio goes
> and needs some TLC.
>
>
> On 12/27/2014 5:43 PM, Josh Baird via Af wrote:
>
> It sounds like you are asking for a CTM2?  :)
>
> On Sat, Dec 27, 2014 at 6:38 PM, David Milholen via Af 
> wrote:
>
>>  Dear Cambium,
>>  we love the current CMM4,but we need gigE interface support and power
>> monitoring via snmp.
>> Also, can we get a dual input for either or DC supply 48/24v and be able
>> to dial down via software
>> from 48 to 29.
>> We need these basics with or without a switch.
>>  I know Im asking alot here but the 450's deserve better LOL
>> thanks
>> Dave
>>
>> --
>>
>
>
> --
>

Re: [AFMUG] WD Auction

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Western digital is still going strong.  They even bought Hitachi a while
back.

Makes me wonder what the deal is with this auction.
On Dec 29, 2014 2:09 PM, "Jason McKemie via Af"  wrote:

> Where did you see that?  I can't find anything on it, other than some
> April Fool's joke.
>
> On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 2:38 PM, Josh Luthman via Af  wrote:
>
>> Seagate, years ago
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> On Dec 29, 2014 3:34 PM, "Mike Hammett via Af"  wrote:
>>
>>> They were bought out a while back.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Jason McKemie via Af" 
>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent: *Monday, December 29, 2014 2:33:54 PM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] WD Auction
>>>
>>> Maybe they just relocated a manufacturing facility?
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 2:31 PM, That One Guy via Af 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 WD went under?

 On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 2:19 PM, Jason McKemie via Af 
 wrote:

> There is probably a bunch of good stuff here:
>
>
> http://www.hgpauction.com/auctions/71349/former-assets-western-digital/?utm_source=Official+Auction+Former+Assets+of+Western+Digital&utm_campaign=DigitalWestern&utm_medium=email
>



 --
 All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that
 the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you
 can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not
 use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925

>>>
>>>
>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] WD Auction

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

More likely in my mind is that these are leftovers from a no longer used
plant for spinning rust drives.

The former assets of wd is what makes me curious. Makes it sounds like
these were acquired from or abandoned by wd.
On Dec 29, 2014 2:30 PM, "Craig Baird via Af"  wrote:

> I remember seeing pictures of a WD factory or warehouse or something in
> Thailand, I think, that was flooded by a Tsunami a few years ago.  Any
> chance they're trying to sell off stuff involved in that event?
>
> Craig
>
>
> Quoting "Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af" :
>
>  Western digital is still going strong.  They even bought Hitachi a while
>> back.
>>
>> Makes me wonder what the deal is with this auction.
>> On Dec 29, 2014 2:09 PM, "Jason McKemie via Af"  wrote:
>>
>>  Where did you see that?  I can't find anything on it, other than some
>>> April Fool's joke.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 2:38 PM, Josh Luthman via Af 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Seagate, years ago
>>>>
>>>> Josh Luthman
>>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>>> Suite 1337
>>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>> On Dec 29, 2014 3:34 PM, "Mike Hammett via Af"  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  They were bought out a while back.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -
>>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> *From: *"Jason McKemie via Af" 
>>>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>>>> *Sent: *Monday, December 29, 2014 2:33:54 PM
>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] WD Auction
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe they just relocated a manufacturing facility?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 2:31 PM, That One Guy via Af 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  WD went under?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 2:19 PM, Jason McKemie via Af 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  There is probably a bunch of good stuff here:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.hgpauction.com/auctions/71349/former-assets-
>>>>>>> western-digital/?utm_source=Official+Auction+Former+
>>>>>>> Assets+of+Western+Digital&utm_campaign=DigitalWestern&utm_
>>>>>>> medium=email
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that
>>>>>> the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore,
>>>>>> if you
>>>>>> can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means,
>>>>>> do not
>>>>>> use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Dc electric load ? Chuck ?

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

2kw and cheap are not compatible.

If you can survive with a few hundred watts, go to circuitspecialists.com
and look for dc electronic loads.  I have two of these at packetflux we use
for similar purposes.

There are also quite a few build it yourself projects.  These require lots
of heatsinking and cooling and I haven't found any which seem as stable as
the commercial ones.   If you are set on 2kw, I'll try to find one which
may work.
On Dec 31, 2014 12:11 PM, "TJ Trout via Af"  wrote:

> Anyone know of a inexpensive do it yourself way to make a dc constant
> current electric load for testing power supplies, lithium batteries , etc ?
> Looking for something maybe 2kw+ and the cheapest premade thing I can find
> is $3500. Maybe I'll just use a carbon pile load but that will be much less
> accurate.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Packetflux SiteMonitor Gigabit POE Boards?

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

Have been for a while.

Found that errant description and removed it.
So Are the Gigabit POE boards available? 4/8 port?  It says something about
September.

Re: [AFMUG] Dc electric load ? Chuck ?

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

The electronic way is a constant current source shunted to ground or
through a resistor bank.

One hefty npn power transistor and a few smallish components.  Or a jfet
with source tied to gate, with a current adjustment resistor in the source
lead.  Or any of a hundred circuits.

For more wattage you can parallel several, each adjusted to take their
fraction of the total amps.

I seem to be slowly turning into a power electronics engineer over here.
On Dec 31, 2014 3:42 PM, "chuck--- via Af"  wrote:

>   I am thinking a DC-DC converter that will take a wide input and
> constant voltage output into a nice temperature compensated resistive
> load.  What voltage range do you want?
>
> Doh!, that would be a constant power load.
>
> You want constant current load.  Have to continue thinking...
>
>  *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 31, 2014 3:39 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dc electric load ? Chuck ?
>
>   I know how to do it really cheap and easy under 2 amps.  Have to think
> on this a bit.  I have used hot water heating elements and coils of wire
> (in a bucket of water) for high wattage resistors but obviously not
> constant current.
>
>  *From:* TJ Trout via Af 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 31, 2014 12:11 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Dc electric load ? Chuck ?
>
>
> Anyone know of a inexpensive do it yourself way to make a dc constant
> current electric load for testing power supplies, lithium batteries , etc ?
> Looking for something maybe 2kw+ and the cheapest premade thing I can find
> is $3500. Maybe I'll just use a carbon pile load but that will be much less
> accurate.
>

Re: [AFMUG] -48 vDC Power Supply Recommendations?

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

AC input?

http://store.packetflux.com/48vdc-2a-power-supply-for-430-320-syncinjectors/
is isolated so should work just fine.

-forrest

On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 1:43 PM, Mike Hammett via Af  wrote:

> Looking for recommendations on a -48 vDC power supply. 1.5 amps. Not
> expected to have any other radios on site or would at least be independent.
> No batteries or anything.
>
> =
> During the final installation, protect the ODU by a magneto-thermal switch
> (not supplied with the equipment), whose characteristics must comply with
> the laws in force in one’s country.
> The typical magneto thermal switch has characteristics at least 48Vdc
> @1.5A with overcurrent relay class “C” or “K” tripping curve.
> =
>
> I'm finding things with long lead times, things at a much higher amperage
> capacity or things that will require wire nuts to complete.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>