subject:"\[AFMUG\] Wanna throw up in your mouth\?"

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-29 Thread Josh Reynolds

IPTV delivery over fixed antenna cellular.

On Sep 29, 2017 10:34 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> For what?
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --------------
> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, September 29, 2017 10:33:10 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
> They have been working on the fixed CPEs and set top boxes for this for
> YEARS.
>
> On Sep 29, 2017 10:30 AM, "Christopher Tyler" 
> wrote:
>
>> Not to mention the PR nightmare if anyone found out they were doing that.
>>
>> --
>> Christopher Tyler
>> MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE
>> Total Highspeed Internet Services
>> 417.851.1107
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Mathew Howard" 
>> To: "af" 
>> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2017 10:22:38 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>>
>> Well, if that's what they want to do... all I can say is, good luck with
>> that!
>> I realize AT&T the only option in a lot of areas, but anywhere that they
>> have any real competition (whether that be cable, local fiber providers or
>> even WISPs), I can't see how that wouldn't cost them a lot of business.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 8:22 AM, Dennis Burgess 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Of course they want to slow “rivals content” they own DirectTV J lol.
>> No
>> > more dish, cbs all access or Netflix on ATT circuits J
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > *Dennis Burgess** –** Network Solution Engineer – Consultant *
>> >
>> > MikroTik Certified Trainer/Consultant
>> > <http://www.linktechs.net/productcart/pc/viewcontent.asp?idpage=5> –
>> > MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > For Wireless Hardware/Routers visit www.linktechs.net
>> >
>> > Radio Frequency Coverages: www.towercoverage.com
>> >
>> > Office: 314-735-0270 <(314)%20735-0270>
>> >
>> > E-Mail: dmburg...@linktechs.net
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Reynolds
>> > *Sent:* Friday, September 29, 2017 7:37 AM
>> >
>> > *To:* af@afmug.com
>> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Oh look...
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > AT&T Inc. and other broadband providers asked the U.S. Supreme Court to
>> > overturn the Obama-era "net neutrality" rule barring internet service
>> > providers from slowing or blocking rivals’ content.
>> >
>> > The appeals, filed Thursday, will put new pressure on a rule enacted in
>> > 2015 when the Federal Communications Commission was under Democratic
>> > control. Filing a separate appeal from AT&T were the United States
>> Telecom
>> > Association, a trade group, and broadband service provider CenturyLink
>> Inc.
>> >
>> > ---
>> >
>> > Ignoring the bias in the reporting (Bloomberg), it's interesting that
>> the
>> > challenge is coming from Telecom. I wonder how much pressure they
>> actually
>> > feel from regional fiber companies and WISPs since they(telco) no longer
>> > have as much of a protected status as they used to. Landline has largely
>> > gone the way of the dino, the ROW was opened, discussions of rural
>> > broadband experiments and funds for non-telco have been brought up, and
>> the
>> > FCC has increasingly had contact from WISPA.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sep 28, 2017 9:43 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>> >
>> > Which is a point I've already made.
>> >
>> > If you can get access withou

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-29 Thread Mike Hammett

For what? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2017 10:33:10 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


They have been working on the fixed CPEs and set top boxes for this for YEARS. 


On Sep 29, 2017 10:30 AM, "Christopher Tyler" < ch...@totalhighspeed.net > 
wrote: 


Not to mention the PR nightmare if anyone found out they were doing that. 

-- 
Christopher Tyler 
MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE 
Total Highspeed Internet Services 
417.851.1107 

- Original Message - 
From: "Mathew Howard" < mhoward...@gmail.com > 
To: "af" < af@afmug.com > 
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2017 10:22:38 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 

Well, if that's what they want to do... all I can say is, good luck with 
that! 
I realize AT&T the only option in a lot of areas, but anywhere that they 
have any real competition (whether that be cable, local fiber providers or 
even WISPs), I can't see how that wouldn't cost them a lot of business. 


On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 8:22 AM, Dennis Burgess < dmburg...@linktechs.net > 
wrote: 

> Of course they want to slow “rivals content” they own DirectTV J lol. No 
> more dish, cbs all access or Netflix on ATT circuits J 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Dennis Burgess** –** Network Solution Engineer – Consultant * 
> 
> MikroTik Certified Trainer/Consultant 
> < http://www.linktechs.net/productcart/pc/viewcontent.asp?idpage=5 > – 
> MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE 
> 
> 
> 
> For Wireless Hardware/Routers visit www.linktechs.net 
> 
> Radio Frequency Coverages: www.towercoverage.com 
> 
> Office: 314-735-0270 <(314)%20735-0270> 
> 
> E-Mail: dmburg...@linktechs.net 
> 
> 
> 
> *From:* Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On Behalf Of *Josh Reynolds 
> *Sent:* Friday, September 29, 2017 7:37 AM 
> 
> *To:* af@afmug.com 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh look... 
> 
> 
> 
> AT&T Inc. and other broadband providers asked the U.S. Supreme Court to 
> overturn the Obama-era "net neutrality" rule barring internet service 
> providers from slowing or blocking rivals’ content. 
> 
> The appeals, filed Thursday, will put new pressure on a rule enacted in 
> 2015 when the Federal Communications Commission was under Democratic 
> control. Filing a separate appeal from AT&T were the United States Telecom 
> Association, a trade group, and broadband service provider CenturyLink Inc. 
> 
> --- 
> 
> Ignoring the bias in the reporting (Bloomberg), it's interesting that the 
> challenge is coming from Telecom. I wonder how much pressure they actually 
> feel from regional fiber companies and WISPs since they(telco) no longer 
> have as much of a protected status as they used to. Landline has largely 
> gone the way of the dino, the ROW was opened, discussions of rural 
> broadband experiments and funds for non-telco have been brought up, and the 
> FCC has increasingly had contact from WISPA. 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sep 28, 2017 9:43 PM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 
> 
> Which is a point I've already made. 
> 
> If you can get access without any particular designation, but by just 
> asking, great. 
> If above fails, get your CLEC and do it again, only now they have to let 
> you in unless there's a documented reason why not (not enough room, etc.). 
> Don't depend on BIAS which is rather volatile. 
> 
> 
> 
> - 
> Mike Hammett 
> Intelligent Computing Solutions < http://www.ics-il.com/ > 
> < https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL > 
> < https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb > 
> < https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions > 
> < https://twitter.com/ICSIL > 
> Midwest Internet Exchange < http://www.midwest-ix.com/ > 
> < https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix > 
> < https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange > 
> < https://twitter.com/mdwestix > 
> The Brothers WISP < http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/ > 
> < https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp > 
> 
> 
> < https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg > 
> -- 
> 
> *From: * ch...@wbmfg.com 
> *To: * af@afmug.com 
> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 1:22:48 PM 
> 
> 
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 
> 
> If they don’t know BIAS is not really in play then once you get the permit 
> you are golden. 
&

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-29 Thread Josh Reynolds

They have been working on the fixed CPEs and set top boxes for this for
YEARS.

On Sep 29, 2017 10:30 AM, "Christopher Tyler" 
wrote:

> Not to mention the PR nightmare if anyone found out they were doing that.
>
> --
> Christopher Tyler
> MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE
> Total Highspeed Internet Services
> 417.851.1107
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Mathew Howard" 
> To: "af" 
> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2017 10:22:38 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
> Well, if that's what they want to do... all I can say is, good luck with
> that!
> I realize AT&T the only option in a lot of areas, but anywhere that they
> have any real competition (whether that be cable, local fiber providers or
> even WISPs), I can't see how that wouldn't cost them a lot of business.
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 8:22 AM, Dennis Burgess 
> wrote:
>
> > Of course they want to slow “rivals content” they own DirectTV J lol.  No
> > more dish, cbs all access or Netflix on ATT circuits J
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *Dennis Burgess** –** Network Solution Engineer – Consultant *
> >
> > MikroTik Certified Trainer/Consultant
> > <http://www.linktechs.net/productcart/pc/viewcontent.asp?idpage=5> –
> > MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE
> >
> >
> >
> > For Wireless Hardware/Routers visit www.linktechs.net
> >
> > Radio Frequency Coverages: www.towercoverage.com
> >
> > Office: 314-735-0270 <(314)%20735-0270>
> >
> > E-Mail: dmburg...@linktechs.net
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Reynolds
> > *Sent:* Friday, September 29, 2017 7:37 AM
> >
> > *To:* af@afmug.com
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
> >
> >
> >
> > Oh look...
> >
> >
> >
> > AT&T Inc. and other broadband providers asked the U.S. Supreme Court to
> > overturn the Obama-era "net neutrality" rule barring internet service
> > providers from slowing or blocking rivals’ content.
> >
> > The appeals, filed Thursday, will put new pressure on a rule enacted in
> > 2015 when the Federal Communications Commission was under Democratic
> > control. Filing a separate appeal from AT&T were the United States
> Telecom
> > Association, a trade group, and broadband service provider CenturyLink
> Inc.
> >
> > ---
> >
> > Ignoring the bias in the reporting (Bloomberg), it's interesting that the
> > challenge is coming from Telecom. I wonder how much pressure they
> actually
> > feel from regional fiber companies and WISPs since they(telco) no longer
> > have as much of a protected status as they used to. Landline has largely
> > gone the way of the dino, the ROW was opened, discussions of rural
> > broadband experiments and funds for non-telco have been brought up, and
> the
> > FCC has increasingly had contact from WISPA.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sep 28, 2017 9:43 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
> >
> > Which is a point I've already made.
> >
> > If you can get access without any particular designation, but by just
> > asking, great.
> > If above fails, get your CLEC and do it again, only now they  have to let
> > you in unless there's a documented reason why not (not enough room,
> etc.).
> > Don't depend on BIAS which is rather volatile.
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> >
> >
> > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> > --
> >
> > *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
> > *To: *af@afmug.com
> > *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 1:22:48 PM
> >
> >
> > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
> >
> > If they don’t know BIAS is not really in play then once you get the
&g

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-29 Thread Christopher Tyler

Not to mention the PR nightmare if anyone found out they were doing that.

-- 
Christopher Tyler 
MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE 
Total Highspeed Internet Services 
417.851.1107

- Original Message -
From: "Mathew Howard" 
To: "af" 
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2017 10:22:38 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

Well, if that's what they want to do... all I can say is, good luck with
that!
I realize AT&T the only option in a lot of areas, but anywhere that they
have any real competition (whether that be cable, local fiber providers or
even WISPs), I can't see how that wouldn't cost them a lot of business.


On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 8:22 AM, Dennis Burgess 
wrote:

> Of course they want to slow “rivals content” they own DirectTV J lol.  No
> more dish, cbs all access or Netflix on ATT circuits J
>
>
>
>
>
> *Dennis Burgess** –** Network Solution Engineer – Consultant *
>
> MikroTik Certified Trainer/Consultant
> <http://www.linktechs.net/productcart/pc/viewcontent.asp?idpage=5> –
> MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE
>
>
>
> For Wireless Hardware/Routers visit www.linktechs.net
>
> Radio Frequency Coverages: www.towercoverage.com
>
> Office: 314-735-0270 <(314)%20735-0270>
>
> E-Mail: dmburg...@linktechs.net
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Friday, September 29, 2017 7:37 AM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
>
>
> Oh look...
>
>
>
> AT&T Inc. and other broadband providers asked the U.S. Supreme Court to
> overturn the Obama-era "net neutrality" rule barring internet service
> providers from slowing or blocking rivals’ content.
>
> The appeals, filed Thursday, will put new pressure on a rule enacted in
> 2015 when the Federal Communications Commission was under Democratic
> control. Filing a separate appeal from AT&T were the United States Telecom
> Association, a trade group, and broadband service provider CenturyLink Inc.
>
> ---
>
> Ignoring the bias in the reporting (Bloomberg), it's interesting that the
> challenge is coming from Telecom. I wonder how much pressure they actually
> feel from regional fiber companies and WISPs since they(telco) no longer
> have as much of a protected status as they used to. Landline has largely
> gone the way of the dino, the ROW was opened, discussions of rural
> broadband experiments and funds for non-telco have been brought up, and the
> FCC has increasingly had contact from WISPA.
>
>
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 9:43 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
> Which is a point I've already made.
>
> If you can get access without any particular designation, but by just
> asking, great.
> If above fails, get your CLEC and do it again, only now they  have to let
> you in unless there's a documented reason why not (not enough room, etc.).
> Don't depend on BIAS which is rather volatile.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
>
> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 1:22:48 PM
>
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
> If they don’t know BIAS is not really in play then once you get the permit
> you are golden.
>
> Cell phone providers are not CLECs and they get in all the same ROWs as
> the CLECS and ILECS.
>
>
>
> I have never ever had a permitting agency ask me how I had the right to
> ask for access.
>
>
>
> Moreover, crossing federal public lands, they cannot even charge you
> rent.  That is by act of congress.  And that applies to every person on
> this list.
>
>
>
> They just want drawings and money.
>
>
>
> *From:* Mike Hammett
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 12:16 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
>
>
> Which is a point I've already made.
>
> If you can get a

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-29 Thread Mathew Howard

Well, if that's what they want to do... all I can say is, good luck with
that!
I realize AT&T the only option in a lot of areas, but anywhere that they
have any real competition (whether that be cable, local fiber providers or
even WISPs), I can't see how that wouldn't cost them a lot of business.


On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 8:22 AM, Dennis Burgess 
wrote:

> Of course they want to slow “rivals content” they own DirectTV J lol.  No
> more dish, cbs all access or Netflix on ATT circuits J
>
>
>
>
>
> *Dennis Burgess** –** Network Solution Engineer – Consultant *
>
> MikroTik Certified Trainer/Consultant
> <http://www.linktechs.net/productcart/pc/viewcontent.asp?idpage=5> –
> MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE
>
>
>
> For Wireless Hardware/Routers visit www.linktechs.net
>
> Radio Frequency Coverages: www.towercoverage.com
>
> Office: 314-735-0270 <(314)%20735-0270>
>
> E-Mail: dmburg...@linktechs.net
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Friday, September 29, 2017 7:37 AM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
>
>
> Oh look...
>
>
>
> AT&T Inc. and other broadband providers asked the U.S. Supreme Court to
> overturn the Obama-era "net neutrality" rule barring internet service
> providers from slowing or blocking rivals’ content.
>
> The appeals, filed Thursday, will put new pressure on a rule enacted in
> 2015 when the Federal Communications Commission was under Democratic
> control. Filing a separate appeal from AT&T were the United States Telecom
> Association, a trade group, and broadband service provider CenturyLink Inc.
>
> ---
>
> Ignoring the bias in the reporting (Bloomberg), it's interesting that the
> challenge is coming from Telecom. I wonder how much pressure they actually
> feel from regional fiber companies and WISPs since they(telco) no longer
> have as much of a protected status as they used to. Landline has largely
> gone the way of the dino, the ROW was opened, discussions of rural
> broadband experiments and funds for non-telco have been brought up, and the
> FCC has increasingly had contact from WISPA.
>
>
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 9:43 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
> Which is a point I've already made.
>
> If you can get access without any particular designation, but by just
> asking, great.
> If above fails, get your CLEC and do it again, only now they  have to let
> you in unless there's a documented reason why not (not enough room, etc.).
> Don't depend on BIAS which is rather volatile.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
>
> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 1:22:48 PM
>
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
> If they don’t know BIAS is not really in play then once you get the permit
> you are golden.
>
> Cell phone providers are not CLECs and they get in all the same ROWs as
> the CLECS and ILECS.
>
>
>
> I have never ever had a permitting agency ask me how I had the right to
> ask for access.
>
>
>
> Moreover, crossing federal public lands, they cannot even charge you
> rent.  That is by act of congress.  And that applies to every person on
> this list.
>
>
>
> They just want drawings and money.
>
>
>
> *From:* Mike Hammett
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 12:16 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
>
>
> Which is a point I've already made.
>
> If you can get access without any particular designation, but by just
> asking, great.
> If above fails, get your CLEC and do it again, only now they  have to let
> you in unless there's a documented reason why not (not enough room, etc.).
> Don't depend on BIAS which is rather volatile.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-29 Thread Dennis Burgess

Of course they want to slow “rivals content” they own DirectTV ☺ lol.  No more 
dish, cbs all access or Netflix on ATT circuits ☺


Dennis Burgess – Network Solution Engineer – Consultant
MikroTik Certified 
Trainer/Consultant<http://www.linktechs.net/productcart/pc/viewcontent.asp?idpage=5>
 – MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE

For Wireless Hardware/Routers visit www.linktechs.net<http://www.linktechs.net/>
Radio Frequency Coverages: www.towercoverage.com<http://www.towercoverage.com/>
Office: 314-735-0270
E-Mail: dmburg...@linktechs.net<mailto:dmburg...@linktechs.net>

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2017 7:37 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

Oh look...


AT&T Inc. and other broadband providers asked the U.S. Supreme Court to 
overturn the Obama-era "net neutrality" rule barring internet service providers 
from slowing or blocking rivals’ content.

The appeals, filed Thursday, will put new pressure on a rule enacted in 2015 
when the Federal Communications Commission was under Democratic control. Filing 
a separate appeal from AT&T were the United States Telecom Association, a trade 
group, and broadband service provider CenturyLink Inc.

---

Ignoring the bias in the reporting (Bloomberg), it's interesting that the 
challenge is coming from Telecom. I wonder how much pressure they actually feel 
from regional fiber companies and WISPs since they(telco) no longer have as 
much of a protected status as they used to. Landline has largely gone the way 
of the dino, the ROW was opened, discussions of rural broadband experiments and 
funds for non-telco have been brought up, and the FCC has increasingly had 
contact from WISPA.

On Sep 28, 2017 9:43 PM, "Mike Hammett" 
mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
Which is a point I've already made.

If you can get access without any particular designation, but by just asking, 
great.
If above fails, get your CLEC and do it again, only now they  have to let you 
in unless there's a documented reason why not (not enough room, etc.).
Don't depend on BIAS which is rather volatile.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

From: ch...@wbmfg.com<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 1:22:48 PM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
If they don’t know BIAS is not really in play then once you get the permit you 
are golden.
Cell phone providers are not CLECs and they get in all the same ROWs as the 
CLECS and ILECS.

I have never ever had a permitting agency ask me how I had the right to ask for 
access.

Moreover, crossing federal public lands, they cannot even charge you rent.  
That is by act of congress.  And that applies to every person on this list.

They just want drawings and money.

From: Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 12:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

Which is a point I've already made.

If you can get access without any particular designation, but by just asking, 
great.
If above fails, get your CLEC and do it again, only now they  have to let you 
in unless there's a documented reason why not (not enough room, etc.).
Don't depend on BIAS which is rather volatile.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange<

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-29 Thread Josh Reynolds

Oh look...

AT&T Inc. and other broadband providers asked the U.S. Supreme Court to
overturn the Obama-era "net neutrality" rule barring internet service
providers from slowing or blocking rivals’ content.

The appeals, filed Thursday, will put new pressure on a rule enacted in
2015 when the Federal Communications Commission was under Democratic
control. Filing a separate appeal from AT&T were the United States Telecom
Association, a trade group, and broadband service provider CenturyLink Inc.

---

Ignoring the bias in the reporting (Bloomberg), it's interesting that the
challenge is coming from Telecom. I wonder how much pressure they actually
feel from regional fiber companies and WISPs since they(telco) no longer
have as much of a protected status as they used to. Landline has largely
gone the way of the dino, the ROW was opened, discussions of rural
broadband experiments and funds for non-telco have been brought up, and the
FCC has increasingly had contact from WISPA.

On Sep 28, 2017 9:43 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

Which is a point I've already made.

If you can get access without any particular designation, but by just
asking, great.
If above fails, get your CLEC and do it again, only now they  have to let
you in unless there's a documented reason why not (not enough room, etc.).
Don't depend on BIAS which is rather volatile.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
------
*From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 1:22:48 PM

*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

If they don’t know BIAS is not really in play then once you get the permit
you are golden.
Cell phone providers are not CLECs and they get in all the same ROWs as the
CLECS and ILECS.

I have never ever had a permitting agency ask me how I had the right to ask
for access.

Moreover, crossing federal public lands, they cannot even charge you rent.
That is by act of congress.  And that applies to every person on this
list.

They just want drawings and money.

*From:* Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 12:16 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

Which is a point I've already made.

If you can get access without any particular designation, but by just
asking, great.
If above fails, get your CLEC and do it again, only now they  have to let
you in unless there's a documented reason why not (not enough room, etc.).
Don't depend on BIAS which is rather volatile.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
--
*From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 12:57:41 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

No, I don’t have a CLEC for the non reg stuff.

You always have to get permission from the property owner, it may be a
public street but the city still has to grant an excavation or together
permit.

Many times there is a public utility easement around private property that
you can occupy.

The FCC made all BIAS providers public utilities in spirit.  While that
particular document may no longer be in effect, you can still point to the
language and use it.  If you get the permit you are golden.  None of this
requires a CLEC.

*From:* Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:04 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a CLEC I
*MAY* place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property allows
me to.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread Mike Hammett

Which is a point I've already made. 

If you can get access without any particular designation, but by just asking, 
great. 
If above fails, get your CLEC and do it again, only now they have to let you in 
unless there's a documented reason why not (not enough room, etc.). 
Don't depend on BIAS which is rather volatile. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 1:22:48 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 




If they don’t know BIAS is not really in play then once you get the permit you 
are golden. 
Cell phone providers are not CLECs and they get in all the same ROWs as the 
CLECS and ILECS. 

I have never ever had a permitting agency ask me how I had the right to ask for 
access. 

Moreover, crossing federal public lands, they cannot even charge you rent. That 
is by act of congress. And that applies to every person on this list. 

They just want drawings and money. 




From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 12:16 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


Which is a point I've already made. 

If you can get access without any particular designation, but by just asking, 
great. 
If above fails, get your CLEC and do it again, only now they have to let you in 
unless there's a documented reason why not (not enough room, etc.). 
Don't depend on BIAS which is rather volatile. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 12:57:41 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 




No, I don’t have a CLEC for the non reg stuff. 

You always have to get permission from the property owner, it may be a public 
street but the city still has to grant an excavation or together permit. 

Many times there is a public utility easement around private property that you 
can occupy. 

The FCC made all BIAS providers public utilities in spirit. While that 
particular document may no longer be in effect, you can still point to the 
language and use it. If you get the permit you are golden. None of this 
requires a CLEC. 




From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:04 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a CLEC I *MAY* 
place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property allows me to. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 




If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep your cable 
there. Most easements I get are free. 




From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:54:56 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 




CLEC is no insurance. 
ROW-Easement is insurance. 






From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is pretty cheap 
insurance when doling out fiber. 

The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of existing providers 
is that the bits moved typically aren't significantly different. As long as 
most things generally work, people aren't going to leave. If Netflix buffers 
constantly, your marketing becomes a lot easier, "Our Netflix actually works." 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:46:43 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


We did at our fiber company. 

I don't remember the exact percentage, but I do remember it being above 60% of 
people only have access to a single provider. 

If you remove the ROW access for BIAS providers, lower "broadband" to 10M, and 
allow providers to throttle other content, the odds are so overwhelmingly 
stacked against new regional ISPs, existing providers who just haven't expanded 
yet, and the general population of this country... And solely provides mor

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread George Skorup

And that example is where a case can be made for free market principles. 
You got how many hundreds of thousands or millions of customers on a 
carrier in a large market. Netflix probably figured it was in their best 
interest to co-lo at the carrier's facilities so they don't lose 
customers. And somehow that's extortion by the big bad ISP.


Perfect analogy. I live right off of I55. Nothing but corn and bean 
fields for decades along the frontage roads. The farmers retired and 
sold the land. Now there are some big warehouses. The roads are being 
widened and repaired, paid by the developer. And why should they not pay 
for it when the majority of the traffic will be theirs? And heavy 
traffic at that. They weren't asked to pay for future I55 repairs 
because of their traffic, just the access roads into their terminals.


So is it really too much to ask the edge provider pays for the 
interconnection? IMO, no.


On 9/28/2017 7:10 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
A few years ago Netflix colo'd their CDN servers in a Comcast data 
center to resolve an overloaded peering issue.  Performance improved 
for Netflix users served by that Comcast data center, usage on the 
peering connection went back to normal.  Netflix pays a monthly fee 
for Colo just as anybody else would.  Most observers in the media 
noted that performance improved after Netflix started paying Comcast 
and called it blackmail or extortion.  Bad ISP! Stop charging Netflix 
for Colo!  We need Neutrality!


So yeah, I agree with you.


-- Original Message --
From: "George Skorup" <mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>>

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: 9/28/2017 1:25:29 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


I thought half or most of the issue was the "edge providers"?

Consumer wants edge providers' content.
Edge provider makes money from the consumer. Advertising. The content 
itself. Etc.

Edge provider doesn't want to pay carrier for transit.
Both sides bitch. Peering is overloaded.
Gov't steps in to "fix" it.

Data caps and speed tiers weren't dissolved with NN. So what does it 
do for the consumer? Or for that matter, the carrier? Who does it 
"protect" other than the edge provider? Seems it's only protecting 
their profits.


On 9/27/2017 11:40 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
That's pretty much how I've always seen it... NN always seemed to me 
more of a solution to a problem that people were afraid might be 
there someday, which the market would more than likely take care of 
by itself if it actually does happen, than a solution to an actual 
real problem.


On Sep 27, 2017 11:26 PM, "Jason McKemie" 
<mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>> wrote:


I'd think the big guys getting greedy (and being allowed to do
as they wish with their networks) would only help the smaller
providers. It's certainly possible that I'm missing something
though.

On Wednesday, September 27, 2017, George Skorup
mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:

I think Steve is saying, what was broken 4 years ago that
needed NN to come fix it?

On 9/27/2017 10:08 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

How so?

It depends on which session. Sometimes we at least had
lube, or there
was the threat of getting fucked, but we just hadn't
been moved into
the same cell block of our admirer yet. Sometimes we
just got "raw
dogged".

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 10:07 PM, Steve Jones
 wrote:

Were we fucked 4 years ago?

On Sep 27, 2017 9:30 PM, "Josh Reynolds"
 wrote:

There's some points that are obviously wrong,
and some that are not.

Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is
repealed we are fucked.

On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones"
 wrote:



https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net-neutrality-isp

<https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net-neutrality-isp>


I pretty much had to quit reading when this
idiot sated what the FCCs job
is

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread chuck

Let me put it another way

She looks like a million bucks, go hit on her, don’t just assume she is out of 
your league.
What’s the worst that can happen?

“don’t ask, don’t get”



From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 12:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

If they don’t know BIAS is not really in play then once you get the permit you 
are golden.  
Cell phone providers are not CLECs and they get in all the same ROWs as the 
CLECS and ILECS.  

I have never ever had a permitting agency ask me how I had the right to ask for 
access.  

Moreover, crossing federal public lands, they cannot even charge you rent.  
That is by act of congress.  And that applies to every person on this list.  

They just want drawings and money.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 12:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

Which is a point I've already made.

If you can get access without any particular designation, but by just asking, 
great.
If above fails, get your CLEC and do it again, only now they  have to let you 
in unless there's a documented reason why not (not enough room, etc.).
Don't depend on BIAS which is rather volatile.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 12:57:41 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


No, I don’t have a CLEC for the non reg stuff.  

You always have to get permission from the property owner, it may be a public 
street but the city still has to grant an excavation or together permit.  

Many times there is a public utility easement around private property that you 
can occupy.  

The FCC made all BIAS providers public utilities in spirit.  While that 
particular document may no longer be in effect, you can still point to the 
language and use it.  If you get the permit you are golden.  None of this 
requires a CLEC.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a CLEC I *MAY* 
place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property allows me to.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep your cable 
there.  Most easements I get are free.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:54:56 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


CLEC is no insurance.  
ROW-Easement is insurance.  



From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is pretty cheap 
insurance when doling out fiber.

The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of existing providers 
is that the bits moved typically aren't significantly different. As long as 
most things generally work, people aren't going to leave. If Netflix buffers 
constantly, your marketing becomes a lot easier, "Our Netflix actually works."




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Josh Reynolds" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:46:43 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


We did at our fiber company. 

I don't remember the exact percentage, but I do remember it being above 60% of 
people only have access to a single provider.

If you remove the ROW access for BIAS providers, lower "broadband" to 10M, and 
allow providers to throttle other content, the odds are so overwhelmingly 
stacked against new regional ISPs, existing providers who just haven't expanded 
yet, and the general population of this country... And solely provides more 
welfare to expand the existing cable and Telco monopolies.




On Sep 28, 2017 7:37 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

  You're

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread chuck

If they don’t know BIAS is not really in play then once you get the permit you 
are golden.  
Cell phone providers are not CLECs and they get in all the same ROWs as the 
CLECS and ILECS.  

I have never ever had a permitting agency ask me how I had the right to ask for 
access.  

Moreover, crossing federal public lands, they cannot even charge you rent.  
That is by act of congress.  And that applies to every person on this list.  

They just want drawings and money.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 12:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

Which is a point I've already made.

If you can get access without any particular designation, but by just asking, 
great.
If above fails, get your CLEC and do it again, only now they  have to let you 
in unless there's a documented reason why not (not enough room, etc.).
Don't depend on BIAS which is rather volatile.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 12:57:41 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


No, I don’t have a CLEC for the non reg stuff.  

You always have to get permission from the property owner, it may be a public 
street but the city still has to grant an excavation or together permit.  

Many times there is a public utility easement around private property that you 
can occupy.  

The FCC made all BIAS providers public utilities in spirit.  While that 
particular document may no longer be in effect, you can still point to the 
language and use it.  If you get the permit you are golden.  None of this 
requires a CLEC.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a CLEC I *MAY* 
place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property allows me to.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep your cable 
there.  Most easements I get are free.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:54:56 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


CLEC is no insurance.  
ROW-Easement is insurance.  



From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is pretty cheap 
insurance when doling out fiber.

The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of existing providers 
is that the bits moved typically aren't significantly different. As long as 
most things generally work, people aren't going to leave. If Netflix buffers 
constantly, your marketing becomes a lot easier, "Our Netflix actually works."




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Josh Reynolds" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:46:43 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


We did at our fiber company. 

I don't remember the exact percentage, but I do remember it being above 60% of 
people only have access to a single provider.

If you remove the ROW access for BIAS providers, lower "broadband" to 10M, and 
allow providers to throttle other content, the odds are so overwhelmingly 
stacked against new regional ISPs, existing providers who just haven't expanded 
yet, and the general population of this country... And solely provides more 
welfare to expand the existing cable and Telco monopolies.




On Sep 28, 2017 7:37 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

  You're wrong.  :-p

  Did anyone actually utilize that ROW access under NN and not something else 
like being a CLEC? Spend a couple thousand bucks and you're a CLEC, if you need 
to be in your jurisdiction for ROW access. Around here you can just apply and 
get the ROW access you desire.

  They weren't directly thro

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread Mike Hammett

Which is a point I've already made. 

If you can get access without any particular designation, but by just asking, 
great. 
If above fails, get your CLEC and do it again, only now they have to let you in 
unless there's a documented reason why not (not enough room, etc.). 
Don't depend on BIAS which is rather volatile. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 12:57:41 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 




No, I don’t have a CLEC for the non reg stuff. 

You always have to get permission from the property owner, it may be a public 
street but the city still has to grant an excavation or together permit. 

Many times there is a public utility easement around private property that you 
can occupy. 

The FCC made all BIAS providers public utilities in spirit. While that 
particular document may no longer be in effect, you can still point to the 
language and use it. If you get the permit you are golden. None of this 
requires a CLEC. 




From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:04 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a CLEC I *MAY* 
place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property allows me to. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 




If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep your cable 
there. Most easements I get are free. 




From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:54:56 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 




CLEC is no insurance. 
ROW-Easement is insurance. 






From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is pretty cheap 
insurance when doling out fiber. 

The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of existing providers 
is that the bits moved typically aren't significantly different. As long as 
most things generally work, people aren't going to leave. If Netflix buffers 
constantly, your marketing becomes a lot easier, "Our Netflix actually works." 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:46:43 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


We did at our fiber company. 

I don't remember the exact percentage, but I do remember it being above 60% of 
people only have access to a single provider. 

If you remove the ROW access for BIAS providers, lower "broadband" to 10M, and 
allow providers to throttle other content, the odds are so overwhelmingly 
stacked against new regional ISPs, existing providers who just haven't expanded 
yet, and the general population of this country... And solely provides more 
welfare to expand the existing cable and Telco monopolies. 





On Sep 28, 2017 7:37 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




You're wrong. :-p 

Did anyone actually utilize that ROW access under NN and not something else 
like being a CLEC? Spend a couple thousand bucks and you're a CLEC, if you need 
to be in your jurisdiction for ROW access. Around here you can just apply and 
get the ROW access you desire. 

They weren't directly throttled, but yes, ran through congested peering and 
transit. So what if they do? Business choice. That gives you or me the 
opportunity to come through with Netflix that doesn't suck and steal the 
customer. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:33:20 AM 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 



If I'm wrong, say so, but NN seems to be the only thing keep providers from 
throttling down third party eyeball content to prioritize their own. 

Also, that ROW access many of us enjoyed as BIAS providers was tied to that as

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread Mike Hammett

*yawn* 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:38:23 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


It's not a tool, it's a barrier. You're still considered as less than and 
ignored compared to the ILEC who will continue to get those federal tax dollars 
while providing only what they legally have to. 


There is no good reason to support that business model. 


On Sep 28, 2017 9:17 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




It's a tool that gets you what you need. It's a fairly inexpensive tool. Use 
the tool that has been placed at your doorstep until regulatory certainty 
comes. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:14:28 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


The whole idea of a CLEC needs to die, and only serves to continue to divide 
the providers into classes. 


On Sep 28, 2017 9:04 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a CLEC I *MAY* 
place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property allows me to. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 




If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep your cable 
there. Most easements I get are free. 




From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:54:56 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 




CLEC is no insurance. 
ROW-Easement is insurance. 






From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is pretty cheap 
insurance when doling out fiber. 

The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of existing providers 
is that the bits moved typically aren't significantly different. As long as 
most things generally work, people aren't going to leave. If Netflix buffers 
constantly, your marketing becomes a lot easier, "Our Netflix actually works." 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:46:43 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


We did at our fiber company. 

I don't remember the exact percentage, but I do remember it being above 60% of 
people only have access to a single provider. 

If you remove the ROW access for BIAS providers, lower "broadband" to 10M, and 
allow providers to throttle other content, the odds are so overwhelmingly 
stacked against new regional ISPs, existing providers who just haven't expanded 
yet, and the general population of this country... And solely provides more 
welfare to expand the existing cable and Telco monopolies. 





On Sep 28, 2017 7:37 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




You're wrong. :-p 

Did anyone actually utilize that ROW access under NN and not something else 
like being a CLEC? Spend a couple thousand bucks and you're a CLEC, if you need 
to be in your jurisdiction for ROW access. Around here you can just apply and 
get the ROW access you desire. 

They weren't directly throttled, but yes, ran through congested peering and 
transit. So what if they do? Business choice. That gives you or me the 
opportunity to come through with Netflix that doesn't suck and steal the 
customer. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:33:20 AM 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 



If I'm wrong, say so, but NN seems to be the only thing keep providers from 
throttling down third party eyeball content to prioritize their own. 

Also, that ROW access many of us enjoyed as BIAS providers was tied to that as 
well. 

My memory i

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread chuck

If you have a government as the main customer willing to pay dearly for your 
product, is that government subsidized?

Rockwell built the lunar lander I think.

Rocketdyne started out with hobbyists until the government recognized they knew 
something about rocket engines.  

All the defense contractors during WWII grew with new products where the 
government were the only customers.

So, are all of these subsidized?  

If so, then yes Long Lines was government subsidized.  



From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 10:01 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

I guess I thought Long Lines was a DOD project.but I might have invented 
that idea.


-- Original Message --
From: "Steve Jones" 
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Sent: 9/28/2017 11:59:35 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

  out of curiousity, did AT&T build out long lines on their own dime, or what 
that government subsidized?

  On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:52 AM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

AT&T Funding Model: 
<1> Lobby
<2> "muh copper"
<3> get funds to maintain copper from taxpayers and your competition
<4> deploy fiber and more cell sites instead
<5> find ways to overlay on existing provider
<6> see step 1

On Sep 28, 2017 10:45 AM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:

  you should protest this. we can get the whole afmug group together and go 
shut shit down. I want a sign that says "this is my sign, there are many like 
her, but this one is mine" 

  cool chants like "what the heck, get rid of ilec" our slogan can be make 
ROW great again, we can have hats

  On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Josh Reynolds  
wrote:

It's not a tool, it's a barrier. You're still considered as less than 
and ignored compared to the ILEC who will continue to get those federal tax 
dollars while providing only what they legally have to. 

There is no good reason to support that business model.

On Sep 28, 2017 9:17 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

  It's a tool that gets you what you need. It's a fairly inexpensive 
tool. Use the tool that has been placed at your doorstep until regulatory 
certainty comes.




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

      From: "Josh Reynolds" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:14:28 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


  The whole idea of a CLEC needs to die, and only serves to continue to 
divide the providers into classes.

  On Sep 28, 2017 9:04 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a 
CLEC I *MAY* place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property 
allows me to.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP






--------

        From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep 
your cable there.  Most easements I get are free.  

        From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP






--------

        From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:54:56 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


CLEC is no insurance.  
ROW-Easement is insurance.  



        From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is 
pretty cheap insurance when doling out fiber.

The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of 
existing providers is that the bits moved typically aren't significantly 
different. As long as most things generally work, people aren't going to leave. 
If Netflix buff

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread chuck

No, I don’t have a CLEC for the non reg stuff.  

You always have to get permission from the property owner, it may be a public 
street but the city still has to grant an excavation or together permit.  

Many times there is a public utility easement around private property that you 
can occupy.  

The FCC made all BIAS providers public utilities in spirit.  While that 
particular document may no longer be in effect, you can still point to the 
language and use it.  If you get the permit you are golden.  None of this 
requires a CLEC.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a CLEC I *MAY* 
place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property allows me to.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep your cable 
there.  Most easements I get are free.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:54:56 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


CLEC is no insurance.  
ROW-Easement is insurance.  



From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is pretty cheap 
insurance when doling out fiber.

The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of existing providers 
is that the bits moved typically aren't significantly different. As long as 
most things generally work, people aren't going to leave. If Netflix buffers 
constantly, your marketing becomes a lot easier, "Our Netflix actually works."




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Josh Reynolds" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:46:43 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


We did at our fiber company. 

I don't remember the exact percentage, but I do remember it being above 60% of 
people only have access to a single provider.

If you remove the ROW access for BIAS providers, lower "broadband" to 10M, and 
allow providers to throttle other content, the odds are so overwhelmingly 
stacked against new regional ISPs, existing providers who just haven't expanded 
yet, and the general population of this country... And solely provides more 
welfare to expand the existing cable and Telco monopolies.




On Sep 28, 2017 7:37 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

  You're wrong.  :-p

  Did anyone actually utilize that ROW access under NN and not something else 
like being a CLEC? Spend a couple thousand bucks and you're a CLEC, if you need 
to be in your jurisdiction for ROW access. Around here you can just apply and 
get the ROW access you desire.

  They weren't directly throttled, but yes, ran through congested peering and 
transit. So what if they do? Business choice. That gives you or me the 
opportunity to come through with Netflix that doesn't suck and steal the 
customer. 





  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Josh Reynolds" 
  To: af@afmug.com

  Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:33:20 AM 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


  If I'm wrong, say so, but NN seems to be the only thing keep providers from 
throttling down third party eyeball content to prioritize their own. 

  Also, that ROW access many of us enjoyed as BIAS providers was tied to that 
as well.

  My memory is fuzzy though.

  On Sep 28, 2017 7:23 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

The only way forward is to repeal Net Neutrality.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Josh Reynolds" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:30:44 PM

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread Josh Reynolds

That's half the appointments in government. There's two classifications of
SES positions, one is a career appointment, and one is political.

Political appointments normally change with executive branch changes.
Career appointments can't be removed really from SES, but they can be
transitioned to managing something much smaller like a pencil factory.

On Sep 28, 2017 12:16 PM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:

getting fired leaves bad tastes in the mouth

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 11:48 AM, Sean Heskett  wrote:

> from the bottom of the article it says the author is...
>
> "*Gigi Sohn served as **c**ounselor to former FCC chairman Tom Wheeler
> from November 2013 to December 2016**."*
>
> so yeah of course she isn't going to like what Pai is doing lol
>
> -Sean
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 7:27 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net
>> -neutrality-isp
>>
>>
>> I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs job
>> is
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread Steve Jones

getting fired leaves bad tastes in the mouth

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 11:48 AM, Sean Heskett  wrote:

> from the bottom of the article it says the author is...
>
> "*Gigi Sohn served as **c**ounselor to former FCC chairman Tom Wheeler
> from November 2013 to December 2016**."*
>
> so yeah of course she isn't going to like what Pai is doing lol
>
> -Sean
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 7:27 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net
>> -neutrality-isp
>>
>>
>> I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs job
>> is
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread Sean Heskett

from the bottom of the article it says the author is...

"*Gigi Sohn served as **c**ounselor to former FCC chairman Tom Wheeler from
November 2013 to December 2016**."*

so yeah of course she isn't going to like what Pai is doing lol

-Sean



On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 7:27 PM, Steve Jones 
wrote:

> https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-
> net-neutrality-isp
>
>
> I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs job
> is
>

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread Josh Reynolds

"In closing, it is appropriate that we recognize today the 100th
anniversary of the Kingsbury Commitment.  But we should view that agreement
not as an inspiration for the future but rather as a warning.  It is a
warning that regulatory capture is a real risk.  It is a warning that some
regulations preserve competitors at the expense of real competition. " -
Pai's comments of 100 years after Kingsbury, from:
https://www.fcc.gov/document/pai-remarks-100th-anniversary-kingsbury-commitment

On Sep 28, 2017 11:26 AM, "James Howard"  wrote:

> It was written on the internet so there’s no question that everything they
> say is true!
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 11:17 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
>
>
> Oh damn...
>
>
>
> http://fortune.com/2015/08/18/att-nsa/
>
>
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 11:13 AM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:
>
> I can't find anything saying that directly, but it does talk about how
> critical it was to national defense... Big bunkers with huge generators and
> a federal backed monopoly.
>
>
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 11:01 AM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>
> I guess I thought Long Lines was a DOD project.but I might have
> invented that idea.
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
>
> From: "Steve Jones" 
>
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>
> Sent: 9/28/2017 11:59:35 AM
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
>
>
> out of curiousity, did AT&T build out long lines on their own dime, or
> what that government subsidized?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:52 AM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
> AT&T Funding Model:
>
> <1> Lobby
>
> <2> "muh copper"
>
> <3> get funds to maintain copper from taxpayers and your competition
>
> <4> deploy fiber and more cell sites instead
>
> <5> find ways to overlay on existing provider
>
> <6> see step 1
>
>
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 10:45 AM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:
>
> you should protest this. we can get the whole afmug group together and go
> shut shit down. I want a sign that says "this is my sign, there are many
> like her, but this one is mine"
>
>
>
> cool chants like "what the heck, get rid of ilec" our slogan can be make
> ROW great again, we can have hats
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
> It's not a tool, it's a barrier. You're still considered as less than and
> ignored compared to the ILEC who will continue to get those federal tax
> dollars while providing only what they legally have to.
>
>
>
> There is no good reason to support that business model.
>
>
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 9:17 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
> It's a tool that gets you what you need. It's a fairly inexpensive tool.
> Use the tool that has been placed at your doorstep until regulatory
> certainty comes.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
>
> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:14:28 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
> The whole idea of a CLEC needs to die, and only serves to continue to
> divide the providers into classes.
>
>
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 9:04 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
> But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a CLEC I
> *MAY* place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property allows
> me to.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread James Howard

It was written on the internet so there's no question that everything they say 
is true!

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 11:17 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

Oh damn...

http://fortune.com/2015/08/18/att-nsa/

On Sep 28, 2017 11:13 AM, "Josh Reynolds" 
mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote:
I can't find anything saying that directly, but it does talk about how critical 
it was to national defense... Big bunkers with huge generators and a federal 
backed monopoly.

On Sep 28, 2017 11:01 AM, "Adam Moffett" 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I guess I thought Long Lines was a DOD project.but I might have invented 
that idea.

-- Original Message --
From: "Steve Jones" 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Sent: 9/28/2017 11:59:35 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

out of curiousity, did AT&T build out long lines on their own dime, or what 
that government subsidized?

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:52 AM, Josh Reynolds 
mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote:
AT&T Funding Model:
<1> Lobby
<2> "muh copper"
<3> get funds to maintain copper from taxpayers and your competition
<4> deploy fiber and more cell sites instead
<5> find ways to overlay on existing provider
<6> see step 1

On Sep 28, 2017 10:45 AM, "Steve Jones" 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:
you should protest this. we can get the whole afmug group together and go shut 
shit down. I want a sign that says "this is my sign, there are many like her, 
but this one is mine"

cool chants like "what the heck, get rid of ilec" our slogan can be make ROW 
great again, we can have hats

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Josh Reynolds 
mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote:
It's not a tool, it's a barrier. You're still considered as less than and 
ignored compared to the ILEC who will continue to get those federal tax dollars 
while providing only what they legally have to.

There is no good reason to support that business model.

On Sep 28, 2017 9:17 AM, "Mike Hammett" 
mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
It's a tool that gets you what you need. It's a fairly inexpensive tool. Use 
the tool that has been placed at your doorstep until regulatory certainty comes.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

From: "Josh Reynolds" mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:14:28 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
The whole idea of a CLEC needs to die, and only serves to continue to divide 
the providers into classes.

On Sep 28, 2017 9:04 AM, "Mike Hammett" 
mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a CLEC I *MAY* 
place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property allows me to.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[http://www.ics-il.com/image

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread Josh Reynolds

Oh damn...

http://fortune.com/2015/08/18/att-nsa/

On Sep 28, 2017 11:13 AM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

> I can't find anything saying that directly, but it does talk about how
> critical it was to national defense... Big bunkers with huge generators and
> a federal backed monopoly.
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 11:01 AM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>
>> I guess I thought Long Lines was a DOD project.but I might have
>> invented that idea.
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Steve Jones" 
>> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Sent: 9/28/2017 11:59:35 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>>
>> out of curiousity, did AT&T build out long lines on their own dime, or
>> what that government subsidized?
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:52 AM, Josh Reynolds 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> AT&T Funding Model:
>>> <1> Lobby
>>> <2> "muh copper"
>>> <3> get funds to maintain copper from taxpayers and your competition
>>> <4> deploy fiber and more cell sites instead
>>> <5> find ways to overlay on existing provider
>>> <6> see step 1
>>>
>>> On Sep 28, 2017 10:45 AM, "Steve Jones" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> you should protest this. we can get the whole afmug group together and
>>>> go shut shit down. I want a sign that says "this is my sign, there are many
>>>> like her, but this one is mine"
>>>>
>>>> cool chants like "what the heck, get rid of ilec" our slogan can be
>>>> make ROW great again, we can have hats
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Josh Reynolds 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It's not a tool, it's a barrier. You're still considered as less than
>>>>> and ignored compared to the ILEC who will continue to get those federal 
>>>>> tax
>>>>> dollars while providing only what they legally have to.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no good reason to support that business model.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 28, 2017 9:17 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a tool that gets you what you need. It's a fairly inexpensive
>>>>>> tool. Use the tool that has been placed at your doorstep until regulatory
>>>>>> certainty comes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -
>>>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
>>>>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>>>>> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:14:28 AM
>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The whole idea of a CLEC needs to die, and only serves to continue to
>>>>>> divide the providers into classes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sep 28, 2017 9:04 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a
>>>>>>> CLEC I *MAY* place it there... if whomever owns that easement or 
>>>>>>> property
>>>>>>> allows me to.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread Josh Reynolds

I can't find anything saying that directly, but it does talk about how
critical it was to national defense... Big bunkers with huge generators and
a federal backed monopoly.

On Sep 28, 2017 11:01 AM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

> I guess I thought Long Lines was a DOD project.but I might have
> invented that idea.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Steve Jones" 
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Sent: 9/28/2017 11:59:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
> out of curiousity, did AT&T build out long lines on their own dime, or
> what that government subsidized?
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:52 AM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
>> AT&T Funding Model:
>> <1> Lobby
>> <2> "muh copper"
>> <3> get funds to maintain copper from taxpayers and your competition
>> <4> deploy fiber and more cell sites instead
>> <5> find ways to overlay on existing provider
>> <6> see step 1
>>
>> On Sep 28, 2017 10:45 AM, "Steve Jones" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> you should protest this. we can get the whole afmug group together and
>>> go shut shit down. I want a sign that says "this is my sign, there are many
>>> like her, but this one is mine"
>>>
>>> cool chants like "what the heck, get rid of ilec" our slogan can be make
>>> ROW great again, we can have hats
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Josh Reynolds 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's not a tool, it's a barrier. You're still considered as less than
>>>> and ignored compared to the ILEC who will continue to get those federal tax
>>>> dollars while providing only what they legally have to.
>>>>
>>>> There is no good reason to support that business model.
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 28, 2017 9:17 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It's a tool that gets you what you need. It's a fairly inexpensive
>>>>> tool. Use the tool that has been placed at your doorstep until regulatory
>>>>> certainty comes.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -
>>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>>>> --
>>>>> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
>>>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>>>> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:14:28 AM
>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>>>>>
>>>>> The whole idea of a CLEC needs to die, and only serves to continue to
>>>>> divide the providers into classes.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 28, 2017 9:04 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a
>>>>>> CLEC I *MAY* place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property
>>>>>> allows me to.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -
>>>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>>>>> <https://www.linked

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread Adam Moffett

I guess I thought Long Lines was a DOD project.but I might have 
invented that idea.

-- Original Message --
From: "Steve Jones" 
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Sent: 9/28/2017 11:59:35 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

out of curiousity, did AT&T build out long lines on their own dime, or 
what that government subsidized?

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:52 AM, Josh Reynolds  
wrote:

AT&T Funding Model:
<1> Lobby
<2> "muh copper"
<3> get funds to maintain copper from taxpayers and your competition
<4> deploy fiber and more cell sites instead
<5> find ways to overlay on existing provider
<6> see step 1

On Sep 28, 2017 10:45 AM, "Steve Jones"  
wrote:
you should protest this. we can get the whole afmug group together 
and go shut shit down. I want a sign that says "this is my sign, 
there are many like her, but this one is mine"

cool chants like "what the heck, get rid of ilec" our slogan can be 
make ROW great again, we can have hats

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Josh Reynolds  
wrote:
It's not a tool, it's a barrier. You're still considered as less 
than and ignored compared to the ILEC who will continue to get those 
federal tax dollars while providing only what they legally have to.

There is no good reason to support that business model.

On Sep 28, 2017 9:17 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
It's a tool that gets you what you need. It's a fairly inexpensive 
tool. Use the tool that has been placed at your doorstep until 
regulatory certainty comes.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> 
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> 
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>

Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> 
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>

The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
----
From: "Josh Reynolds" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:14:28 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

The whole idea of a CLEC needs to die, and only serves to continue 
to divide the providers into classes.

On Sep 28, 2017 9:04 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a 
CLEC I *MAY* place it there... if whomever owns that easement or 
property allows me to.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> 
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> 
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>

Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> 
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>

The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep 
your cable there.  Most easements I get are free.

From:Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> 
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> 
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>

Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> 
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>

The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
--------
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:54:56 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread Steve Jones

out of curiousity, did AT&T build out long lines on their own dime, or what
that government subsidized?

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:52 AM, Josh Reynolds 
wrote:

> AT&T Funding Model:
> <1> Lobby
> <2> "muh copper"
> <3> get funds to maintain copper from taxpayers and your competition
> <4> deploy fiber and more cell sites instead
> <5> find ways to overlay on existing provider
> <6> see step 1
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 10:45 AM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:
>
>> you should protest this. we can get the whole afmug group together and go
>> shut shit down. I want a sign that says "this is my sign, there are many
>> like her, but this one is mine"
>>
>> cool chants like "what the heck, get rid of ilec" our slogan can be make
>> ROW great again, we can have hats
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Josh Reynolds 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It's not a tool, it's a barrier. You're still considered as less than
>>> and ignored compared to the ILEC who will continue to get those federal tax
>>> dollars while providing only what they legally have to.
>>>
>>> There is no good reason to support that business model.
>>>
>>> On Sep 28, 2017 9:17 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's a tool that gets you what you need. It's a fairly inexpensive
>>>> tool. Use the tool that has been placed at your doorstep until regulatory
>>>> certainty comes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -
>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>>> --
>>>> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
>>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>>> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:14:28 AM
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>>>>
>>>> The whole idea of a CLEC needs to die, and only serves to continue to
>>>> divide the providers into classes.
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 28, 2017 9:04 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a
>>>>> CLEC I *MAY* place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property
>>>>> allows me to.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----
>>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>>>> --
>>>>> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
>>>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>>>> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM
>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>>>>>
>>>>> If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep your
>>>>> cable there.  Most easements I get are free.
>>>>>
>>>>> *From

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread Josh Reynolds

AT&T Funding Model:
<1> Lobby
<2> "muh copper"
<3> get funds to maintain copper from taxpayers and your competition
<4> deploy fiber and more cell sites instead
<5> find ways to overlay on existing provider
<6> see step 1

On Sep 28, 2017 10:45 AM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:

> you should protest this. we can get the whole afmug group together and go
> shut shit down. I want a sign that says "this is my sign, there are many
> like her, but this one is mine"
>
> cool chants like "what the heck, get rid of ilec" our slogan can be make
> ROW great again, we can have hats
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
>> It's not a tool, it's a barrier. You're still considered as less than and
>> ignored compared to the ILEC who will continue to get those federal tax
>> dollars while providing only what they legally have to.
>>
>> There is no good reason to support that business model.
>>
>> On Sep 28, 2017 9:17 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>>
>>> It's a tool that gets you what you need. It's a fairly inexpensive tool.
>>> Use the tool that has been placed at your doorstep until regulatory
>>> certainty comes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:14:28 AM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>>>
>>> The whole idea of a CLEC needs to die, and only serves to continue to
>>> divide the providers into classes.
>>>
>>> On Sep 28, 2017 9:04 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>>>
>>>> But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a CLEC
>>>> I *MAY* place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property allows
>>>> me to.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -
>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>>> --
>>>> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
>>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>>> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>>>>
>>>> If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep your
>>>> cable there.  Most easements I get are free.
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Mike Hammett
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM
>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>>>>
>>>> Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -
>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>>> <https://plus.g

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread Adam Moffett

I LOL at "Make ROW great again"

-- Original Message --
From: "Steve Jones" 
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Sent: 9/28/2017 11:45:17 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

you should protest this. we can get the whole afmug group together and 
go shut shit down. I want a sign that says "this is my sign, there are 
many like her, but this one is mine"

cool chants like "what the heck, get rid of ilec" our slogan can be 
make ROW great again, we can have hats

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Josh Reynolds  
wrote:
It's not a tool, it's a barrier. You're still considered as less than 
and ignored compared to the ILEC who will continue to get those 
federal tax dollars while providing only what they legally have to.

There is no good reason to support that business model.

On Sep 28, 2017 9:17 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
It's a tool that gets you what you need. It's a fairly inexpensive 
tool. Use the tool that has been placed at your doorstep until 
regulatory certainty comes.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> 
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> 
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>

Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> 
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>

The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
----------------
From: "Josh Reynolds" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:14:28 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

The whole idea of a CLEC needs to die, and only serves to continue to 
divide the providers into classes.

On Sep 28, 2017 9:04 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a 
CLEC I *MAY* place it there... if whomever owns that easement or 
property allows me to.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> 
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> 
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>

Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> 
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>

The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep 
your cable there.  Most easements I get are free.

From:Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> 
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> 
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>

Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> 
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>

The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
--------------------
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:54:56 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

CLEC is no insurance.
ROW-Easement is insurance.

From:Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is 
pretty cheap insurance when doling out fiber.

The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of 
existing providers is that the bits moved typically aren't 
significantly different. As long as most things generally work, 
people aren't going to leave. If Netflix buff

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread Steve Jones

you should protest this. we can get the whole afmug group together and go
shut shit down. I want a sign that says "this is my sign, there are many
like her, but this one is mine"

cool chants like "what the heck, get rid of ilec" our slogan can be make
ROW great again, we can have hats

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> It's not a tool, it's a barrier. You're still considered as less than and
> ignored compared to the ILEC who will continue to get those federal tax
> dollars while providing only what they legally have to.
>
> There is no good reason to support that business model.
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 9:17 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
>> It's a tool that gets you what you need. It's a fairly inexpensive tool.
>> Use the tool that has been placed at your doorstep until regulatory
>> certainty comes.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:14:28 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>>
>> The whole idea of a CLEC needs to die, and only serves to continue to
>> divide the providers into classes.
>>
>> On Sep 28, 2017 9:04 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>>
>>> But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a CLEC
>>> I *MAY* place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property allows
>>> me to.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>> --
>>> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>>>
>>> If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep your
>>> cable there.  Most easements I get are free.
>>>
>>> *From:* Mike Hammett
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>>>
>>> Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>> --

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread Josh Reynolds

It's not a tool, it's a barrier. You're still considered as less than and
ignored compared to the ILEC who will continue to get those federal tax
dollars while providing only what they legally have to.

There is no good reason to support that business model.

On Sep 28, 2017 9:17 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> It's a tool that gets you what you need. It's a fairly inexpensive tool.
> Use the tool that has been placed at your doorstep until regulatory
> certainty comes.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:14:28 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
> The whole idea of a CLEC needs to die, and only serves to continue to
> divide the providers into classes.
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 9:04 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
>> But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a CLEC I
>> *MAY* place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property allows
>> me to.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> ----------
>> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>>
>> If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep your
>> cable there.  Most easements I get are free.
>>
>> *From:* Mike Hammett
>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>>
>> Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:54:56 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>>
>> CLEC is no insurance.
>> ROW-Easement is insurance.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Mike Hammett
>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>>
>> A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is pretty
>> cheap insurance when doling out fiber.
>>
>> The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of existing
>> providers is that the bits moved typically aren't significantly diff

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread Mike Hammett

It's a tool that gets you what you need. It's a fairly inexpensive tool. Use 
the tool that has been placed at your doorstep until regulatory certainty 
comes. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:14:28 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


The whole idea of a CLEC needs to die, and only serves to continue to divide 
the providers into classes. 


On Sep 28, 2017 9:04 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a CLEC I *MAY* 
place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property allows me to. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 




If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep your cable 
there. Most easements I get are free. 




From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:54:56 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 




CLEC is no insurance. 
ROW-Easement is insurance. 






From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is pretty cheap 
insurance when doling out fiber. 

The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of existing providers 
is that the bits moved typically aren't significantly different. As long as 
most things generally work, people aren't going to leave. If Netflix buffers 
constantly, your marketing becomes a lot easier, "Our Netflix actually works." 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:46:43 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


We did at our fiber company. 

I don't remember the exact percentage, but I do remember it being above 60% of 
people only have access to a single provider. 

If you remove the ROW access for BIAS providers, lower "broadband" to 10M, and 
allow providers to throttle other content, the odds are so overwhelmingly 
stacked against new regional ISPs, existing providers who just haven't expanded 
yet, and the general population of this country... And solely provides more 
welfare to expand the existing cable and Telco monopolies. 





On Sep 28, 2017 7:37 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




You're wrong. :-p 

Did anyone actually utilize that ROW access under NN and not something else 
like being a CLEC? Spend a couple thousand bucks and you're a CLEC, if you need 
to be in your jurisdiction for ROW access. Around here you can just apply and 
get the ROW access you desire. 

They weren't directly throttled, but yes, ran through congested peering and 
transit. So what if they do? Business choice. That gives you or me the 
opportunity to come through with Netflix that doesn't suck and steal the 
customer. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:33:20 AM 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 



If I'm wrong, say so, but NN seems to be the only thing keep providers from 
throttling down third party eyeball content to prioritize their own. 

Also, that ROW access many of us enjoyed as BIAS providers was tied to that as 
well. 

My memory is fuzzy though. 



On Sep 28, 2017 7:23 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 





The only way forward is to repeal Net Neutrality. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:30:44 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are not. 

Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed we are fucked. 


On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones" < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > wrote: 



https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net-neutrality-isp 


I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs job is

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread Josh Reynolds

The whole idea of a CLEC needs to die, and only serves to continue to
divide the providers into classes.

On Sep 28, 2017 9:04 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a CLEC I
> *MAY* place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property allows
> me to.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --------------
> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
> If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep your
> cable there.  Most easements I get are free.
>
> *From:* Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
> Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ------
> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:54:56 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
> CLEC is no insurance.
> ROW-Easement is insurance.
>
>
>
> *From:* Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
> A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is pretty
> cheap insurance when doling out fiber.
>
> The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of existing
> providers is that the bits moved typically aren't significantly different.
> As long as most things generally work, people aren't going to leave. If
> Netflix buffers constantly, your marketing becomes a lot easier, "Our
> Netflix actually works."
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:46:43 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
> We did at our fiber company.
>
> I don't remember the exact percentage, but I do remember it being above
> 60% of people only have access to a single provider.
>
> If you remove the ROW access for BIAS providers, lower "broadband" to 10M,
> and allow providers to throttle other content, the odds are so
> overwhelmingly stacked against new regional ISPs, existing providers who
> just haven't expanded yet, and the general population of this country...
> And solely provides more welfare to expand the existing cable and Telco
> monopolies.
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 7:37 A

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread Mike Hammett

But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a CLEC I *MAY* 
place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property allows me to. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 




If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep your cable 
there. Most easements I get are free. 




From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:54:56 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 




CLEC is no insurance. 
ROW-Easement is insurance. 






From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is pretty cheap 
insurance when doling out fiber. 

The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of existing providers 
is that the bits moved typically aren't significantly different. As long as 
most things generally work, people aren't going to leave. If Netflix buffers 
constantly, your marketing becomes a lot easier, "Our Netflix actually works." 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:46:43 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


We did at our fiber company. 

I don't remember the exact percentage, but I do remember it being above 60% of 
people only have access to a single provider. 

If you remove the ROW access for BIAS providers, lower "broadband" to 10M, and 
allow providers to throttle other content, the odds are so overwhelmingly 
stacked against new regional ISPs, existing providers who just haven't expanded 
yet, and the general population of this country... And solely provides more 
welfare to expand the existing cable and Telco monopolies. 





On Sep 28, 2017 7:37 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




You're wrong. :-p 

Did anyone actually utilize that ROW access under NN and not something else 
like being a CLEC? Spend a couple thousand bucks and you're a CLEC, if you need 
to be in your jurisdiction for ROW access. Around here you can just apply and 
get the ROW access you desire. 

They weren't directly throttled, but yes, ran through congested peering and 
transit. So what if they do? Business choice. That gives you or me the 
opportunity to come through with Netflix that doesn't suck and steal the 
customer. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:33:20 AM 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 



If I'm wrong, say so, but NN seems to be the only thing keep providers from 
throttling down third party eyeball content to prioritize their own. 

Also, that ROW access many of us enjoyed as BIAS providers was tied to that as 
well. 

My memory is fuzzy though. 



On Sep 28, 2017 7:23 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 





The only way forward is to repeal Net Neutrality. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:30:44 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are not. 

Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed we are fucked. 


On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones" < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > wrote: 



https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net-neutrality-isp 


I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs job is

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread chuck

If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep your cable 
there.  Most easements I get are free.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:54:56 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

CLEC is no insurance.  
ROW-Easement is insurance.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is pretty cheap 
insurance when doling out fiber.

The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of existing providers 
is that the bits moved typically aren't significantly different. As long as 
most things generally work, people aren't going to leave. If Netflix buffers 
constantly, your marketing becomes a lot easier, "Our Netflix actually works."

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

From: "Josh Reynolds" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:46:43 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

We did at our fiber company. 

I don't remember the exact percentage, but I do remember it being above 60% of 
people only have access to a single provider.

If you remove the ROW access for BIAS providers, lower "broadband" to 10M, and 
allow providers to throttle other content, the odds are so overwhelmingly 
stacked against new regional ISPs, existing providers who just haven't expanded 
yet, and the general population of this country... And solely provides more 
welfare to expand the existing cable and Telco monopolies.

On Sep 28, 2017 7:37 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

  You're wrong.  :-p

  Did anyone actually utilize that ROW access under NN and not something else 
like being a CLEC? Spend a couple thousand bucks and you're a CLEC, if you need 
to be in your jurisdiction for ROW access. Around here you can just apply and 
get the ROW access you desire.

  They weren't directly throttled, but yes, ran through congested peering and 
transit. So what if they do? Business choice. That gives you or me the 
opportunity to come through with Netflix that doesn't suck and steal the 
customer. 

  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP

--

  From: "Josh Reynolds" 
  To: af@afmug.com

  Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:33:20 AM 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

  If I'm wrong, say so, but NN seems to be the only thing keep providers from 
throttling down third party eyeball content to prioritize their own. 

  Also, that ROW access many of us enjoyed as BIAS providers was tied to that 
as well.

  My memory is fuzzy though.

  On Sep 28, 2017 7:23 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

The only way forward is to repeal Net Neutrality.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

From: "Josh Reynolds" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:30:44 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are not. 

Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed we are fucked.

On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:

https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net-neutrality-isp 

  I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs job 
is

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread Mike Hammett

Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:54:56 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 




CLEC is no insurance. 
ROW-Easement is insurance. 






From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is pretty cheap 
insurance when doling out fiber. 

The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of existing providers 
is that the bits moved typically aren't significantly different. As long as 
most things generally work, people aren't going to leave. If Netflix buffers 
constantly, your marketing becomes a lot easier, "Our Netflix actually works." 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:46:43 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


We did at our fiber company. 

I don't remember the exact percentage, but I do remember it being above 60% of 
people only have access to a single provider. 

If you remove the ROW access for BIAS providers, lower "broadband" to 10M, and 
allow providers to throttle other content, the odds are so overwhelmingly 
stacked against new regional ISPs, existing providers who just haven't expanded 
yet, and the general population of this country... And solely provides more 
welfare to expand the existing cable and Telco monopolies. 





On Sep 28, 2017 7:37 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




You're wrong. :-p 

Did anyone actually utilize that ROW access under NN and not something else 
like being a CLEC? Spend a couple thousand bucks and you're a CLEC, if you need 
to be in your jurisdiction for ROW access. Around here you can just apply and 
get the ROW access you desire. 

They weren't directly throttled, but yes, ran through congested peering and 
transit. So what if they do? Business choice. That gives you or me the 
opportunity to come through with Netflix that doesn't suck and steal the 
customer. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:33:20 AM 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 



If I'm wrong, say so, but NN seems to be the only thing keep providers from 
throttling down third party eyeball content to prioritize their own. 

Also, that ROW access many of us enjoyed as BIAS providers was tied to that as 
well. 

My memory is fuzzy though. 



On Sep 28, 2017 7:23 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 





The only way forward is to repeal Net Neutrality. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:30:44 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are not. 

Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed we are fucked. 


On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones" < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > wrote: 



https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net-neutrality-isp 


I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs job is

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread Josh Reynolds

We did get easement agreements for many locations.

On Sep 28, 2017 8:54 AM,  wrote:

> CLEC is no insurance.
> ROW-Easement is insurance.
>
>
>
> *From:* Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
> A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is pretty
> cheap insurance when doling out fiber.
>
> The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of existing
> providers is that the bits moved typically aren't significantly different.
> As long as most things generally work, people aren't going to leave. If
> Netflix buffers constantly, your marketing becomes a lot easier, "Our
> Netflix actually works."
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:46:43 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
> We did at our fiber company.
>
> I don't remember the exact percentage, but I do remember it being above
> 60% of people only have access to a single provider.
>
> If you remove the ROW access for BIAS providers, lower "broadband" to 10M,
> and allow providers to throttle other content, the odds are so
> overwhelmingly stacked against new regional ISPs, existing providers who
> just haven't expanded yet, and the general population of this country...
> And solely provides more welfare to expand the existing cable and Telco
> monopolies.
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 7:37 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
> You're wrong.  :-p
>
> Did anyone actually utilize that ROW access under NN and not something
> else like being a CLEC? Spend a couple thousand bucks and you're a CLEC, if
> you need to be in your jurisdiction for ROW access. Around here you can
> just apply and get the ROW access you desire.
>
> They weren't directly throttled, but yes, ran through congested peering
> and transit. So what if they do? Business choice. That gives you or me the
> opportunity to come through with Netflix that doesn't suck and steal the
> customer.
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:33:20 AM
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
> If I'm wrong, say so, but NN seems to be the only thing keep providers
> from throttling down third party eyeball content to prioritize their own.
>
> Also, that ROW access many of us enjoyed as BIAS providers was tied to
> that as well.
>
> My memory is fuzzy though.
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 7:23 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
>> The only way forward is to repeal Net Neutrality.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix&

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread chuck

CLEC is no insurance.  
ROW-Easement is insurance.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is pretty cheap 
insurance when doling out fiber.

The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of existing providers 
is that the bits moved typically aren't significantly different. As long as 
most things generally work, people aren't going to leave. If Netflix buffers 
constantly, your marketing becomes a lot easier, "Our Netflix actually works."

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

From: "Josh Reynolds" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:46:43 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

We did at our fiber company. 

I don't remember the exact percentage, but I do remember it being above 60% of 
people only have access to a single provider.

If you remove the ROW access for BIAS providers, lower "broadband" to 10M, and 
allow providers to throttle other content, the odds are so overwhelmingly 
stacked against new regional ISPs, existing providers who just haven't expanded 
yet, and the general population of this country... And solely provides more 
welfare to expand the existing cable and Telco monopolies.

On Sep 28, 2017 7:37 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

  You're wrong.  :-p

  Did anyone actually utilize that ROW access under NN and not something else 
like being a CLEC? Spend a couple thousand bucks and you're a CLEC, if you need 
to be in your jurisdiction for ROW access. Around here you can just apply and 
get the ROW access you desire.

  They weren't directly throttled, but yes, ran through congested peering and 
transit. So what if they do? Business choice. That gives you or me the 
opportunity to come through with Netflix that doesn't suck and steal the 
customer. 

  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP

--

  From: "Josh Reynolds" 
  To: af@afmug.com

  Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:33:20 AM 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

  If I'm wrong, say so, but NN seems to be the only thing keep providers from 
throttling down third party eyeball content to prioritize their own. 

  Also, that ROW access many of us enjoyed as BIAS providers was tied to that 
as well.

  My memory is fuzzy though.

  On Sep 28, 2017 7:23 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

The only way forward is to repeal Net Neutrality.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

From: "Josh Reynolds" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:30:44 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are not. 

Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed we are fucked.

On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:

https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net-neutrality-isp 

  I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs job 
is

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread Mike Hammett

A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is pretty cheap 
insurance when doling out fiber. 

The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of existing providers 
is that the bits moved typically aren't significantly different. As long as 
most things generally work, people aren't going to leave. If Netflix buffers 
constantly, your marketing becomes a lot easier, "Our Netflix actually works." 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:46:43 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


We did at our fiber company. 


I don't remember the exact percentage, but I do remember it being above 60% of 
people only have access to a single provider. 


If you remove the ROW access for BIAS providers, lower "broadband" to 10M, and 
allow providers to throttle other content, the odds are so overwhelmingly 
stacked against new regional ISPs, existing providers who just haven't expanded 
yet, and the general population of this country... And solely provides more 
welfare to expand the existing cable and Telco monopolies. 







On Sep 28, 2017 7:37 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




You're wrong. :-p 

Did anyone actually utilize that ROW access under NN and not something else 
like being a CLEC? Spend a couple thousand bucks and you're a CLEC, if you need 
to be in your jurisdiction for ROW access. Around here you can just apply and 
get the ROW access you desire. 

They weren't directly throttled, but yes, ran through congested peering and 
transit. So what if they do? Business choice. That gives you or me the 
opportunity to come through with Netflix that doesn't suck and steal the 
customer. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:33:20 AM 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 



If I'm wrong, say so, but NN seems to be the only thing keep providers from 
throttling down third party eyeball content to prioritize their own. 


Also, that ROW access many of us enjoyed as BIAS providers was tied to that as 
well. 


My memory is fuzzy though. 



On Sep 28, 2017 7:23 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 





The only way forward is to repeal Net Neutrality. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:30:44 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are not. 


Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed we are fucked. 


On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones" < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > wrote: 



https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net-neutrality-isp 




I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs job is

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread Josh Reynolds

We did at our fiber company.

I don't remember the exact percentage, but I do remember it being above 60%
of people only have access to a single provider.

If you remove the ROW access for BIAS providers, lower "broadband" to 10M,
and allow providers to throttle other content, the odds are so
overwhelmingly stacked against new regional ISPs, existing providers who
just haven't expanded yet, and the general population of this country...
And solely provides more welfare to expand the existing cable and Telco
monopolies.

On Sep 28, 2017 7:37 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

You're wrong.  :-p

Did anyone actually utilize that ROW access under NN and not something else
like being a CLEC? Spend a couple thousand bucks and you're a CLEC, if you
need to be in your jurisdiction for ROW access. Around here you can just
apply and get the ROW access you desire.

They weren't directly throttled, but yes, ran through congested peering and
transit. So what if they do? Business choice. That gives you or me the
opportunity to come through with Netflix that doesn't suck and steal the
customer.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
------
*From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:33:20 AM

*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

If I'm wrong, say so, but NN seems to be the only thing keep providers from
throttling down third party eyeball content to prioritize their own.

Also, that ROW access many of us enjoyed as BIAS providers was tied to that
as well.

My memory is fuzzy though.

On Sep 28, 2017 7:23 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> The only way forward is to repeal Net Neutrality.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:30:44 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
> There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are not.
>
> Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed we are fucked.
>
> On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:
>
>> https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-
>> net-neutrality-isp
>>
>>
>> I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs job
>> is
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread CBB - Jay Fuller

but who has cancelled their netflix subscription?
yah, didn't think so...

  - Original Message - 
  From: Mike Hammett 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:33 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

  and now Netflix has turned the tables and become the 800 pound gorilla 
telling little people to eff off.

  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP

--

  From: "Adam Moffett" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:10:33 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

  A few years ago Netflix colo'd their CDN servers in a Comcast data center to 
resolve an overloaded peering issue.  Performance improved for Netflix users 
served by that Comcast data center, usage on the peering connection went back 
to normal.  Netflix pays a monthly fee for Colo just as anybody else would.  
Most observers in the media noted that performance improved after Netflix 
started paying Comcast and called it blackmail or extortion.  Bad ISP! Stop 
charging Netflix for Colo!  We need Neutrality!

  So yeah, I agree with you.  

  -- Original Message --
  From: "George Skorup" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: 9/28/2017 1:25:29 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

I thought half or most of the issue was the "edge providers"?

Consumer wants edge providers' content.
Edge provider makes money from the consumer. Advertising. The content 
itself. Etc.
Edge provider doesn't want to pay carrier for transit.
Both sides bitch. Peering is overloaded.
Gov't steps in to "fix" it.

Data caps and speed tiers weren't dissolved with NN. So what does it do for 
the consumer? Or for that matter, the carrier? Who does it "protect" other than 
the edge provider? Seems it's only protecting their profits.

On 9/27/2017 11:40 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:

  That's pretty much how I've always seen it... NN always seemed to me more 
of a solution to a problem that people were afraid might be there someday, 
which the market would more than likely take care of by itself if it actually 
does happen, than a solution to an actual real problem. 

  On Sep 27, 2017 11:26 PM, "Jason McKemie" 
 wrote:

I'd think the big guys getting greedy (and being allowed to do as they 
wish with their networks) would only help the smaller providers. It's certainly 
possible that I'm missing something though.

On Wednesday, September 27, 2017, George Skorup 
 wrote:

  I think Steve is saying, what was broken 4 years ago that needed NN 
to come fix it?

  On 9/27/2017 10:08 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

How so?

It depends on which session. Sometimes we at least had lube, or 
there
was the threat of getting fucked, but we just hadn't been moved into
the same cell block of our admirer yet. Sometimes we just got "raw
dogged".

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 10:07 PM, Steve Jones 
 wrote:

  Were we fucked 4 years ago?

  On Sep 27, 2017 9:30 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  
wrote:

There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are 
not.

Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed we are fucked.

On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones" 
 wrote:

https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net-neutrality-isp

  I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what 
the FCCs job
  is

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread Mike Hammett

You're wrong. :-p 

Did anyone actually utilize that ROW access under NN and not something else 
like being a CLEC? Spend a couple thousand bucks and you're a CLEC, if you need 
to be in your jurisdiction for ROW access. Around here you can just apply and 
get the ROW access you desire. 

They weren't directly throttled, but yes, ran through congested peering and 
transit. So what if they do? Business choice. That gives you or me the 
opportunity to come through with Netflix that doesn't suck and steal the 
customer. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:33:20 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


If I'm wrong, say so, but NN seems to be the only thing keep providers from 
throttling down third party eyeball content to prioritize their own. 


Also, that ROW access many of us enjoyed as BIAS providers was tied to that as 
well. 


My memory is fuzzy though. 


On Sep 28, 2017 7:23 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




The only way forward is to repeal Net Neutrality. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:30:44 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are not. 


Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed we are fucked. 


On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones" < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > wrote: 



https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net-neutrality-isp 




I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs job is

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread Mike Hammett

and now Netflix has turned the tables and become the 800 pound gorilla telling 
little people to eff off. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Adam Moffett"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:10:33 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


A few years ago Netflix colo'd their CDN servers in a Comcast data center to 
resolve an overloaded peering issue. Performance improved for Netflix users 
served by that Comcast data center, usage on the peering connection went back 
to normal. Netflix pays a monthly fee for Colo just as anybody else would. Most 
observers in the media noted that performance improved after Netflix started 
paying Comcast and called it blackmail or extortion. Bad ISP! Stop charging 
Netflix for Colo! We need Neutrality! 


So yeah, I agree with you. 




-- Original Message -- 
From: "George Skorup" < george.sko...@cbcast.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: 9/28/2017 1:25:29 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 




I thought half or most of the issue was the "edge providers"? 

Consumer wants edge providers' content. 
Edge provider makes money from the consumer. Advertising. The content itself. 
Etc. 
Edge provider doesn't want to pay carrier for transit. 
Both sides bitch. Peering is overloaded. 
Gov't steps in to "fix" it. 

Data caps and speed tiers weren't dissolved with NN. So what does it do for the 
consumer? Or for that matter, the carrier? Who does it "protect" other than the 
edge provider? Seems it's only protecting their profits. 


On 9/27/2017 11:40 PM, Mathew Howard wrote: 



That's pretty much how I've always seen it... NN always seemed to me more of a 
solution to a problem that people were afraid might be there someday, which the 
market would more than likely take care of by itself if it actually does 
happen, than a solution to an actual real problem. 


On Sep 27, 2017 11:26 PM, "Jason McKemie" < j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com > 
wrote: 


I'd think the big guys getting greedy (and being allowed to do as they wish 
with their networks) would only help the smaller providers. It's certainly 
possible that I'm missing something though. 

On Wednesday, September 27, 2017, George Skorup < george.sko...@cbcast.com > 
wrote: 


I think Steve is saying, what was broken 4 years ago that needed NN to come fix 
it? 

On 9/27/2017 10:08 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote: 


How so? 

It depends on which session. Sometimes we at least had lube, or there 
was the threat of getting fucked, but we just hadn't been moved into 
the same cell block of our admirer yet. Sometimes we just got "raw 
dogged". 

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 10:07 PM, Steve Jones < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > 
wrote: 


Were we fucked 4 years ago? 

On Sep 27, 2017 9:30 PM, "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > wrote: 


There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are not. 

Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed we are fucked. 

On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones" < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > wrote: 



https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net-neutrality-isp 


I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs job 
is

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread Josh Reynolds

If I'm wrong, say so, but NN seems to be the only thing keep providers from
throttling down third party eyeball content to prioritize their own.

Also, that ROW access many of us enjoyed as BIAS providers was tied to that
as well.

My memory is fuzzy though.

On Sep 28, 2017 7:23 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> The only way forward is to repeal Net Neutrality.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ------------------
> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:30:44 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
> There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are not.
>
> Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed we are fucked.
>
> On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:
>
>> https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-
>> net-neutrality-isp
>>
>>
>> I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs job
>> is
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread Mike Hammett

The big guys' greed is to our benefit and ultimately to the consume's benefit. 
The independents who generally care about their customers (some of you don't) 
will have open season on customers that the big guys jerk around (and not in a 
good way). When you can produce a better service than they can (in many ways) 
because they aren't being forced to not be assholes, everyone but the big guy 
wins. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Jason McKemie"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 11:26:26 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 

I'd think the big guys getting greedy (and being allowed to do as they wish 
with their networks) would only help the smaller providers. It's certainly 
possible that I'm missing something though. 

On Wednesday, September 27, 2017, George Skorup < george.sko...@cbcast.com > 
wrote: 


I think Steve is saying, what was broken 4 years ago that needed NN to come fix 
it? 

On 9/27/2017 10:08 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote: 


How so? 

It depends on which session. Sometimes we at least had lube, or there 
was the threat of getting fucked, but we just hadn't been moved into 
the same cell block of our admirer yet. Sometimes we just got "raw 
dogged". 

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 10:07 PM, Steve Jones < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > 
wrote: 


Were we fucked 4 years ago? 

On Sep 27, 2017 9:30 PM, "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > wrote: 


There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are not. 

Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed we are fucked. 

On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones" < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > wrote: 



https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net-neutrality-isp 


I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs job 
is

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread Mike Hammett

The only way forward is to repeal Net Neutrality. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:30:44 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are not. 


Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed we are fucked. 


On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones" < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > wrote: 



https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net-neutrality-isp 




I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs job is

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-28 Thread Adam Moffett

A few years ago Netflix colo'd their CDN servers in a Comcast data 
center to resolve an overloaded peering issue.  Performance improved for 
Netflix users served by that Comcast data center, usage on the peering 
connection went back to normal.  Netflix pays a monthly fee for Colo 
just as anybody else would.  Most observers in the media noted that 
performance improved after Netflix started paying Comcast and called it 
blackmail or extortion.  Bad ISP! Stop charging Netflix for Colo!  We 
need Neutrality!


So yeah, I agree with you.


-- Original Message --
From: "George Skorup" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 9/28/2017 1:25:29 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


I thought half or most of the issue was the "edge providers"?

Consumer wants edge providers' content.
Edge provider makes money from the consumer. Advertising. The content 
itself. Etc.

Edge provider doesn't want to pay carrier for transit.
Both sides bitch. Peering is overloaded.
Gov't steps in to "fix" it.

Data caps and speed tiers weren't dissolved with NN. So what does it do 
for the consumer? Or for that matter, the carrier? Who does it 
"protect" other than the edge provider? Seems it's only protecting 
their profits.


On 9/27/2017 11:40 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
That's pretty much how I've always seen it... NN always seemed to me 
more of a solution to a problem that people were afraid might be there 
someday, which the market would more than likely take care of by 
itself if it actually does happen, than a solution to an actual real 
problem.


On Sep 27, 2017 11:26 PM, "Jason McKemie" 
<mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>> wrote:
I'd think the big guys getting greedy (and being allowed to do as 
they wish with their networks) would only help the smaller providers. 
It's certainly possible that I'm missing something though.


On Wednesday, September 27, 2017, George Skorup 
 wrote:
I think Steve is saying, what was broken 4 years ago that needed NN 
to come fix it?


On 9/27/2017 10:08 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

How so?

It depends on which session. Sometimes we at least had lube, or 
there
was the threat of getting fucked, but we just hadn't been moved 
into

the same cell block of our admirer yet. Sometimes we just got "raw
dogged".

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 10:07 PM, Steve Jones 
 wrote:

Were we fucked 4 years ago?

On Sep 27, 2017 9:30 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  
wrote:
There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are 
not.


Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed we are fucked.

On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones" 
 wrote:


https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net-neutrality-isp 
<https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net-neutrality-isp>



I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the 
FCCs job

is

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-27 Thread Steve Jones

Shut up george, dont make logical sense

On Sep 28, 2017 12:25 AM, "George Skorup"  wrote:

> I thought half or most of the issue was the "edge providers"?
>
> Consumer wants edge providers' content.
> Edge provider makes money from the consumer. Advertising. The content
> itself. Etc.
> Edge provider doesn't want to pay carrier for transit.
> Both sides bitch. Peering is overloaded.
> Gov't steps in to "fix" it.
>
> Data caps and speed tiers weren't dissolved with NN. So what does it do
> for the consumer? Or for that matter, the carrier? Who does it "protect"
> other than the edge provider? Seems it's only protecting their profits.
>
> On 9/27/2017 11:40 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>
> That's pretty much how I've always seen it... NN always seemed to me more
> of a solution to a problem that people were afraid might be there someday,
> which the market would more than likely take care of by itself if it
> actually does happen, than a solution to an actual real problem.
>
> On Sep 27, 2017 11:26 PM, "Jason McKemie"  com> wrote:
>
>> I'd think the big guys getting greedy (and being allowed to do as they
>> wish with their networks) would only help the smaller providers. It's
>> certainly possible that I'm missing something though.
>>
>> On Wednesday, September 27, 2017, George Skorup 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I think Steve is saying, what was broken 4 years ago that needed NN to
>>> come fix it?
>>>
>>> On 9/27/2017 10:08 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>>
 How so?

 It depends on which session. Sometimes we at least had lube, or there
 was the threat of getting fucked, but we just hadn't been moved into
 the same cell block of our admirer yet. Sometimes we just got "raw
 dogged".

 On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 10:07 PM, Steve Jones <
 thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Were we fucked 4 years ago?
>
> On Sep 27, 2017 9:30 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:
>
>> There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are not.
>>
>> Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed we are fucked.
>>
>> On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net
>>> -neutrality-isp
>>>
>>>
>>> I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the
>>> FCCs job
>>> is
>>>
>>
>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-27 Thread Steve Jones

Fing george

On Sep 28, 2017 12:34 AM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:

> Shut up george, dont make logical sense
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 12:25 AM, "George Skorup" 
> wrote:
>
>> I thought half or most of the issue was the "edge providers"?
>>
>> Consumer wants edge providers' content.
>> Edge provider makes money from the consumer. Advertising. The content
>> itself. Etc.
>> Edge provider doesn't want to pay carrier for transit.
>> Both sides bitch. Peering is overloaded.
>> Gov't steps in to "fix" it.
>>
>> Data caps and speed tiers weren't dissolved with NN. So what does it do
>> for the consumer? Or for that matter, the carrier? Who does it "protect"
>> other than the edge provider? Seems it's only protecting their profits.
>>
>> On 9/27/2017 11:40 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>>
>> That's pretty much how I've always seen it... NN always seemed to me more
>> of a solution to a problem that people were afraid might be there someday,
>> which the market would more than likely take care of by itself if it
>> actually does happen, than a solution to an actual real problem.
>>
>> On Sep 27, 2017 11:26 PM, "Jason McKemie" > com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'd think the big guys getting greedy (and being allowed to do as they
>>> wish with their networks) would only help the smaller providers. It's
>>> certainly possible that I'm missing something though.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, September 27, 2017, George Skorup <
>>> george.sko...@cbcast.com> wrote:
>>>
 I think Steve is saying, what was broken 4 years ago that needed NN to
 come fix it?

 On 9/27/2017 10:08 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

> How so?
>
> It depends on which session. Sometimes we at least had lube, or there
> was the threat of getting fucked, but we just hadn't been moved into
> the same cell block of our admirer yet. Sometimes we just got "raw
> dogged".
>
> On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 10:07 PM, Steve Jones <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Were we fucked 4 years ago?
>>
>> On Sep 27, 2017 9:30 PM, "Josh Reynolds" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are not.
>>>
>>> Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed we are fucked.
>>>
>>> On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones" 
>>> wrote:
>>>

 https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net
 -neutrality-isp


 I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the
 FCCs job
 is

>>>

>>

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-27 Thread George Skorup


I thought half or most of the issue was the "edge providers"?

Consumer wants edge providers' content.
Edge provider makes money from the consumer. Advertising. The content 
itself. Etc.

Edge provider doesn't want to pay carrier for transit.
Both sides bitch. Peering is overloaded.
Gov't steps in to "fix" it.

Data caps and speed tiers weren't dissolved with NN. So what does it do 
for the consumer? Or for that matter, the carrier? Who does it "protect" 
other than the edge provider? Seems it's only protecting their profits.


On 9/27/2017 11:40 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
That's pretty much how I've always seen it... NN always seemed to me 
more of a solution to a problem that people were afraid might be there 
someday, which the market would more than likely take care of by 
itself if it actually does happen, than a solution to an actual real 
problem.


On Sep 27, 2017 11:26 PM, "Jason McKemie" 
> wrote:


I'd think the big guys getting greedy (and being allowed to do as
they wish with their networks) would only help the smaller
providers. It's certainly possible that I'm missing something though.

On Wednesday, September 27, 2017, George Skorup
mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:

I think Steve is saying, what was broken 4 years ago that
needed NN to come fix it?

On 9/27/2017 10:08 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

How so?

It depends on which session. Sometimes we at least had
lube, or there
was the threat of getting fucked, but we just hadn't been
moved into
the same cell block of our admirer yet. Sometimes we just
got "raw
dogged".

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 10:07 PM, Steve Jones
 wrote:

Were we fucked 4 years ago?

On Sep 27, 2017 9:30 PM, "Josh Reynolds"
 wrote:

There's some points that are obviously wrong, and
some that are not.

Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed
we are fucked.

On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones"
 wrote:



https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net-neutrality-isp




I pretty much had to quit reading when this
idiot sated what the FCCs job
is

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-27 Thread Steve Jones

If nn had existed on day one, at&t wouldnt have built long lines and wed
all still be taught morse code in school... thats the only real

On Sep 27, 2017 11:50 PM, "Nathan Anderson"  wrote:

> +1
>
>
>
> Also, if we are going to waste time on hypotheticals, why don't people
> also pause to consider how the internet of today may or may not have come
> to exist in its current form if NN was something already on the regulatory
> books the first day that it started carrying commercial traffic?
>
>
>
> -- Nathan
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:40 PM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
>
>
> That's pretty much how I've always seen it... NN always seemed to me more
> of a solution to a problem that people were afraid might be there someday,
> which the market would more than likely take care of by itself if it
> actually does happen, than a solution to an actual real problem.
>
>
>
> On Sep 27, 2017 11:26 PM, "Jason McKemie"  com> wrote:
>
> I'd think the big guys getting greedy (and being allowed to do as they
> wish with their networks) would only help the smaller providers. It's
> certainly possible that I'm missing something though.
>
> On Wednesday, September 27, 2017, George Skorup 
> wrote:
>
> I think Steve is saying, what was broken 4 years ago that needed NN to
> come fix it?
>
> On 9/27/2017 10:08 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>
> How so?
>
> It depends on which session. Sometimes we at least had lube, or there
> was the threat of getting fucked, but we just hadn't been moved into
> the same cell block of our admirer yet. Sometimes we just got "raw
> dogged".
>
> On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 10:07 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> Were we fucked 4 years ago?
>
> On Sep 27, 2017 9:30 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:
>
> There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are not.
>
> Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed we are fucked.
>
> On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:
>
>
> https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-
> net-neutrality-isp
>
>
> I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs job
> is
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-27 Thread Steve Jones

Dude im drunk, as usual, and that exceeded my level of wtf did he say

On Sep 27, 2017 10:08 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

How so?

It depends on which session. Sometimes we at least had lube, or there
was the threat of getting fucked, but we just hadn't been moved into
the same cell block of our admirer yet. Sometimes we just got "raw
dogged".

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 10:07 PM, Steve Jones 
wrote:
> Were we fucked 4 years ago?
>
> On Sep 27, 2017 9:30 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:
>>
>> There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are not.
>>
>> Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed we are fucked.
>>
>> On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-
net-neutrality-isp
>>>
>>>
>>> I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs
job
>>> is

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-27 Thread Nathan Anderson

+1

Also, if we are going to waste time on hypotheticals, why don't people also 
pause to consider how the internet of today may or may not have come to exist 
in its current form if NN was something already on the regulatory books the 
first day that it started carrying commercial traffic?

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:40 PM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

That's pretty much how I've always seen it... NN always seemed to me more of a 
solution to a problem that people were afraid might be there someday, which the 
market would more than likely take care of by itself if it actually does 
happen, than a solution to an actual real problem.

On Sep 27, 2017 11:26 PM, "Jason McKemie" 
mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>> 
wrote:
I'd think the big guys getting greedy (and being allowed to do as they wish 
with their networks) would only help the smaller providers. It's certainly 
possible that I'm missing something though.

On Wednesday, September 27, 2017, George Skorup 
mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:
I think Steve is saying, what was broken 4 years ago that needed NN to come fix 
it?

On 9/27/2017 10:08 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
How so?

It depends on which session. Sometimes we at least had lube, or there
was the threat of getting fucked, but we just hadn't been moved into
the same cell block of our admirer yet. Sometimes we just got "raw
dogged".

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 10:07 PM, Steve Jones 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Were we fucked 4 years ago?

On Sep 27, 2017 9:30 PM, "Josh Reynolds" 
mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote:
There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are not.

Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed we are fucked.

On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones" 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:

https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net-neutrality-isp


I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs job
is

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-27 Thread Mathew Howard

That's pretty much how I've always seen it... NN always seemed to me more
of a solution to a problem that people were afraid might be there someday,
which the market would more than likely take care of by itself if it
actually does happen, than a solution to an actual real problem.

On Sep 27, 2017 11:26 PM, "Jason McKemie" 
wrote:

> I'd think the big guys getting greedy (and being allowed to do as they
> wish with their networks) would only help the smaller providers. It's
> certainly possible that I'm missing something though.
>
> On Wednesday, September 27, 2017, George Skorup 
> wrote:
>
>> I think Steve is saying, what was broken 4 years ago that needed NN to
>> come fix it?
>>
>> On 9/27/2017 10:08 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>
>>> How so?
>>>
>>> It depends on which session. Sometimes we at least had lube, or there
>>> was the threat of getting fucked, but we just hadn't been moved into
>>> the same cell block of our admirer yet. Sometimes we just got "raw
>>> dogged".
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 10:07 PM, Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Were we fucked 4 years ago?

 On Sep 27, 2017 9:30 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

> There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are not.
>
> Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed we are fucked.
>
> On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones" 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net
>> -neutrality-isp
>>
>>
>> I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs
>> job
>> is
>>
>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-27 Thread Jason McKemie

I'd think the big guys getting greedy (and being allowed to do as they wish
with their networks) would only help the smaller providers. It's certainly
possible that I'm missing something though.

On Wednesday, September 27, 2017, George Skorup 
wrote:

> I think Steve is saying, what was broken 4 years ago that needed NN to
> come fix it?
>
> On 9/27/2017 10:08 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>
>> How so?
>>
>> It depends on which session. Sometimes we at least had lube, or there
>> was the threat of getting fucked, but we just hadn't been moved into
>> the same cell block of our admirer yet. Sometimes we just got "raw
>> dogged".
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 10:07 PM, Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Were we fucked 4 years ago?
>>>
>>> On Sep 27, 2017 9:30 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:
>>>
 There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are not.

 Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed we are fucked.

 On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones" 
 wrote:

>
> https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net
> -neutrality-isp
>
>
> I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs
> job
> is
>

>

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-27 Thread George Skorup

I think Steve is saying, what was broken 4 years ago that needed NN to 
come fix it?


On 9/27/2017 10:08 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

How so?

It depends on which session. Sometimes we at least had lube, or there
was the threat of getting fucked, but we just hadn't been moved into
the same cell block of our admirer yet. Sometimes we just got "raw
dogged".

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 10:07 PM, Steve Jones  wrote:

Were we fucked 4 years ago?

On Sep 27, 2017 9:30 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are not.

Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed we are fucked.

On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:


https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net-neutrality-isp


I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs job
is

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-27 Thread Jaime Solorza

Did I enjoy it?

On Sep 27, 2017 9:08 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

> How so?
>
> It depends on which session. Sometimes we at least had lube, or there
> was the threat of getting fucked, but we just hadn't been moved into
> the same cell block of our admirer yet. Sometimes we just got "raw
> dogged".
>
> On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 10:07 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
> > Were we fucked 4 years ago?
> >
> > On Sep 27, 2017 9:30 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:
> >>
> >> There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are not.
> >>
> >> Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed we are fucked.
> >>
> >> On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones" 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-
> net-neutrality-isp
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs
> job
> >>> is
>

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-27 Thread Josh Reynolds

How so?

It depends on which session. Sometimes we at least had lube, or there
was the threat of getting fucked, but we just hadn't been moved into
the same cell block of our admirer yet. Sometimes we just got "raw
dogged".

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 10:07 PM, Steve Jones  wrote:
> Were we fucked 4 years ago?
>
> On Sep 27, 2017 9:30 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:
>>
>> There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are not.
>>
>> Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed we are fucked.
>>
>> On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net-neutrality-isp
>>>
>>>
>>> I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs job
>>> is

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-27 Thread Steve Jones

Were we fucked 4 years ago?

On Sep 27, 2017 9:30 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

> There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are not.
>
> Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed we are fucked.
>
> On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:
>
>> https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net
>> -neutrality-isp
>>
>>
>> I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs job
>> is
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-27 Thread Josh Reynolds

There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are not.

Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed we are fucked.

On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:

> https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-
> net-neutrality-isp
>
>
> I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs job
> is
>

[AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

2017-09-27 Thread Steve Jones

https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net-neutrality-isp


I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs job is

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