[AsburyPark] Re: How come no one

[dsher4]

I agree, great speech
I too am inspired Hinge
Oak and I at least agree it almost always comes back to economics.  
I haven't forget about the parking meter stuff, just backlogged a bit 
at work.  


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "oakdorf"  wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dsher4"  wrote:
> >
> > Well exactly who would pay for it and what would the turn out be?  
> 
> 
> Turn on the TV or better yet, the Internet.
> 
> No one would come, you're right.
> 
> He gave a great speech.
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com 
mailto:asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: How come no one

[dsher4]

Well exactly who would pay for it and what would the turn out be?  
Haven't we all learned that you can't just spend money without any 
thoughts about what the reason is for the spending.  The town has no 
money (12 million deficit) and MM has already spent millions without 
any payback as of yet.  


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "oakdorf"  wrote:
>
> decided to set up large screens in CH or the Paramount for today's 
> event in Washington. Lots of places are doing it.
> 
> 
> Imagine that.
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com 
mailto:asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: Closing time for a rock theme park

[dsher4]

B section of the January 7, 2009 Wall street journal for those who 
are interested

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dsher4"  wrote:
>
> This is not intended to tweak anyone but i thought this was 
> interesting that this music themed park failed. 
> 
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123128760224559189.html?
> mod=googlenews_wsj
> 
> Hard Rock Park, a 140-acre theme park in Myrtle Beach, S.C., 
opened 
> with great fanfare last April, hoping to lure tourists with a 
> penchant for roller coasters and Led Zeppelin. Now, though, 
despite 
> four years in development and two years in construction, the 
> attraction is unplugging just nine months after opening.
> 
> Yesterday, a Delaware bankruptcy judge approved the company's 
> request to begin liquidating what was billed as the world's first 
> rock 'n' roll theme park and the single-largest tourism investment 
> in South Carolina history.
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com 
mailto:asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Closing time for a rock theme park

[dsher4]

This is not intended to tweak anyone but i thought this was 
interesting that this music themed park failed. 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123128760224559189.html?
mod=googlenews_wsj

Hard Rock Park, a 140-acre theme park in Myrtle Beach, S.C., opened 
with great fanfare last April, hoping to lure tourists with a 
penchant for roller coasters and Led Zeppelin. Now, though, despite 
four years in development and two years in construction, the 
attraction is unplugging just nine months after opening.

Yesterday, a Delaware bankruptcy judge approved the company's 
request to begin liquidating what was billed as the world's first 
rock 'n' roll theme park and the single-largest tourism investment 
in South Carolina history.








Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com 
mailto:asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: Taxes and Meters

[dsher4]

Werner,

Thanks for providing me with Bill Grant's name.  There are 1200 
spots on the street and approx 580 in the lots paved over by MM.  I 
will be doing "a real world, real assumptions" set of analysis to 
determine how much those meters could generate in a given year and 
what that could generate in revenues or upfront investment.  I've 
been lazy last few weeks enjoying time with the kids and now busy at 
work but i will have it done shortly.  I will also provide a 
spreadsheet so all my math can be checked :)  



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "wernerapnj"  
wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dsher4"  wrote:
> >
> > Werner,
> > It was nice to meet you last week.  I wondered if anyone noticed 
> > that new part on your tax bill that shows what the state is 
paying 
> > on your behalf as a homeowner in Asbury.  
> > How is the town ever going to generate the 45+ million (this is 
my 
> > calculation so not sure if it is correct) for schooling that is 
> > carried by the state every year.  The deficit is so large it 
would 
> > seem to be insurmountable.  Does anyone have any knowledge on 
the 
> > topic and when the Asbury revaluation is coming if it hasn't 
already?
> > 
> > Dan S.  
> ===
> 
> Likewise, sorry we couldn't chat more as I was awaiting my date 
with Judge Apostolou, 
> Bill Gray, et al.
> 
> The single most significant issue facing Asbury Park is economics. 
All the nice stuff, fun 
> stuff, things to to, its better than it was, etc... means nothing 
if the City can not support 
> itself due to dysfunctional redevelopment policies.
> 
> Everyone should be sharpening their pencils
> 
> Werner
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com 
mailto:asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: Taxes

[dsher4]

I found this on the web for those who are interested.  Its a FAQ for 
a company that does revaluation appraisal in New Jersey 
municipalities.  I found it informative.  Here is the link also

Why is my town undergoing a revaluation now? 
Towns undertake revaluations periodically to reflect current market 
conditions. Neighborhoods change, individual homes may change, but 
assessments are mostly static. The one major exception is if you 
improve or enlarge your dwelling. Since market conditions change, 
and assessments rarely change over time, the relationship between 
assessments and market values becomes more distant and must be 
brought into line. 



Top



What is the purpose of revaluation? 

The purpose of the revaluation is to redistribute the existing tax 
burden more fairly based on current market value: If your home is 
worth $300,000 you should be assessed at $300,000. If your home is 
worth $500,000, you should be assessed at $500,000. This principle 
is established by the New Jersey Constitution, and spelled out 
specifically in statutory law. 



Top



Will my taxes go up after the reval? 

Many homeowners think that the town is using the revaluation to 
raise property taxes. This is not the case. The amount that you pay 
in real estate taxes is determined by your municipal, county and 
local school district budgets. If these budgets go up from one year 
to the next, and state aid is static, property taxes will rise, 
whether or not the town undertakes a reval. 



Top



What happens to the tax rate after a revaluation? 

Because the ratable base (total assessed value of all properties in 
town) goes up after a revaluation, the tax rate is adjusted 
downward. For example: 

Pre-reval Assessed Value x. Tax Rate = Pre-reval Taxes


$250,000 x $4.00 = $10,000


Post-reval Assessed Value x. Tax Rate = Post-reval Taxes


$500,000 x $2.00 = $10,000
Top



Why do you need to come into my home? 

The Division of Taxation mandates that we attempt to inspect the 
interior of every dwelling and commercial/industrial/apartment 
building in town. Inspecting the interior of your dwelling helps to 
make a more accurate valuation of your property. 



Top



I have not made any improvements to my property since the last 
reval. Why does my house have to be inspected? 

Unless an interior inspection is made, we cannot determine the 
current condition of the dwelling. If the interior of your dwelling 
is unchanged over the years, you should encourage the inspector to 
see the interior condition. 



Top



Who will inspect my dwelling? 

The person inspecting your dwelling is a trained full-time property 
inspector. He or she is not a tax assessor and not an appraiser. He 
or she will not be formulating an appraisal of your house. Our 
inspectors are trained to measure the exterior of the dwelling and 
to inspect both the exterior and interior. 



Top



What kind of identification do the inspectors carry with them? 

These inspectors will have two forms of identification: a company-
issued badge with photograph, and also a town-issued letter of 
introduction. Please make sure to check their identification before 
allowing them into your dwelling. 



Top



What is the inspector looking for inside my home? 

They are not looking at your furnishings, your clothing, or your 
pets. They are counting rooms and baths, noting the type of heating 
system, as well as amenities such as fireplaces, decks, patios, etc. 
They also look at the condition of the dwelling, as well as any 
problem you bring to their attention. 



Top



Do I have to let the inspector into my house? 

You are not required to allow an inspector to enter your home. 
However, if you decide not to allow an inspection, you can be sure 
that your valuation will be substantially higher than it would have 
been had you allowed the inspection. In fact, after we mail out our 
valuation letters at the end of a reval, often the first people that 
call us for an appointment are those who did not allow an 
inspection. Before we can discuss the new valuation with them, they 
will be required to allow us an interior inspection of the dwelling. 



Top




I work most days, and return home late. How will my home be 
inspected? 

Our inspectors will make three attempts to inspect, usually arriving 
at different times, on three different days. If, after the first or 
second attempt, they are unable to gain entrance, they will leave a 
card at the door with a telephone number you may call to arrange an 
appointment. 



Top



How are the valuations done? 

Licensed appraisers review the inspection data and dwelling 
measurements. They then analyze all recent property sales in each 
neighborhood, giving most weight to the sales which occur closest to 
October 1st of the year the reval is conducted. Those sales are used 
to formulate all of the valuations in that specific neighborhood. 



Top



When will I be notified about my new valuation? 

Once all of th

[AsburyPark] Taxes

[dsher4]

Werner,
It was nice to meet you last week.  I wondered if anyone noticed 
that new part on your tax bill that shows what the state is paying 
on your behalf as a homeowner in Asbury.  
How is the town ever going to generate the 45+ million (this is my 
calculation so not sure if it is correct) for schooling that is 
carried by the state every year.  The deficit is so large it would 
seem to be insurmountable.  Does anyone have any knowledge on the 
topic and when the Asbury revaluation is coming if it hasn't already?

Dan S.  


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "wernerapnj"  
wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "oakdorf"  wrote:
>  
> > Some guy was putting money in the meter...it kept on beeping at 
him. 
> > Told him don't bother it's free.
> > 
> > How much has been collected in the "off season".
> > 
> > Need glow in the dark numbers.
> >
> =
> 
> Why would you discourage someone from adding revenue to the City's 
budget??
> 
> Telling people not to feed the meters certainly doesn't help, just 
let them do it.
> 
> Werner
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com 
mailto:asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: Number of parking spots anyone?

[dsher4]

I left a detailed message, hopefully he returns my call


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "wernerapnj" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dsher4"  wrote:
> >
> > If someone knows the actual number of parking spots in town and 
the 
> > number of spots in the lots that MM paved, i will take some time 
and 
> > do a real world analysis with numbers and assumptions that i 
think 
> > make sense.  
> > 
> 
=
> 
> If you are so inclined, contact:
> 
> Brian Grant
> City Engineer
> 732-502-5713
> 
> He could probably give you the
> numbers immediately.
> 
> Werner
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: C-8 part 2....1 year later

[dsher4]

The problem is there might be 60 million of construction costs 
already spent sitting there.  Why scrap that?  If anything, that 
could lure a new builder in who doesn't have to re-create what is 
there but can build on top.  
This is clearly delayed but not unworkable.  


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "cwpvt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> It's been a year, can't the City force them to remove what is 
there 
> if they are not going to use it?  Or hire someone to remove it and 
> bill the owner.  I would assume that if they can arrest someone 
for a 
> porch, they can have the owner (who is still in business) fined 
until 
> it's gone. The same thing with the Metropolitan, why is that hulk 
> still standing. I would have to assume they removed the good part, 
> because they were afraid that someone was going to force them to 
> restore it.  If I remember correctly, the city sent an engineer 
over 
> who said it was unsafe, or that was the excuse anyway! Wouldn't 
the 
> remains qualify the same way? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dsher4"  wrote:
> >
> > The sad fact is that it is virtually impossible to get a loan to 
do 
> > almost anything at the current time for even the most 
creditworthy 
> > of borrowers.  
> > Real Estate is on the lower end of the health spectrum at the 
> moment.
> > I have no specific knowledge here but my guess is that this 
project 
> > is going nowhere for a while until the health of the lending 
market 
> > improves considerably.  
> > So the update would be that it is in limbo for quite some time.  
> > 
> > 
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Pitzer"  
wrote:
> > >
> > > Didn't the ESP shut down this month last year?
> > > Has anybody heard any updates about it fate, or plans to 
restart 
> > building?
> > > It's starting to be a real slap in the cities face that 
there's 
> > another derelict structure on the 
> > > same exact location as the last one.
> > >
> >
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Number of parking spots anyone?

[dsher4]

If someone knows the actual number of parking spots in town and the 
number of spots in the lots that MM paved, i will take some time and 
do a real world analysis with numbers and assumptions that i think 
make sense.  


> >
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: C-8 part 2....1 year later

[dsher4]

The sad fact is that it is virtually impossible to get a loan to do 
almost anything at the current time for even the most creditworthy 
of borrowers.  
Real Estate is on the lower end of the health spectrum at the moment.
I have no specific knowledge here but my guess is that this project 
is going nowhere for a while until the health of the lending market 
improves considerably.  
So the update would be that it is in limbo for quite some time.  


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Pitzer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Didn't the ESP shut down this month last year?
> Has anybody heard any updates about it fate, or plans to restart 
building?
> It's starting to be a real slap in the cities face that there's 
another derelict structure on the 
> same exact location as the last one.
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: So back to the budget and leasing Parking...

[dsher4]

I am going to let this discussion go for now in light of these 
thoughts.

I am not in the law profession so i do not make statements about 
that profession because it is not my core competency.  

I am in the investment profession and that is my core competency.
I also have multiple models that do these calculations for me. 
Compound interest and rate of return are some of the most basic 
concepts in my business.  I feel i have a firm grasp on them

Maybe i'm wrong in how i'm calculating this but that means i have 
been making wrong math calculations for the hedge fund that i have 
been working at for 15 years.  

The 10% assumption was an example, not a real world prospectus.

We could surely debate those issues, and i actually think the return 
would have to be 15%+ to an investor. So that is a debateable topic, 
how compound interest works is  not.



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "oakdorf"  wrote:
> >
> > Let's put the whose right and wrong aside. 
> 
> Is that a good idea?
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH

[dsher4]

NO NO NO - 

Putting up 8.4 million and then receiving 1.44 million per year is a 
10% return.  
And by the way, you can buy extremely high quality corporate bond at 
9-10% right now.  So that is a real world example.  
And remember these municipal bonds would be tax free. 

And investors might require a 15% return for a high risk like 
Asbury.  I was just using assumptions to make a point not saying 10% 
would be what the market would require to purchase these bonds.  



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dsher4"  wrote:
> >
> > Not exactly.
> > the 50 cents you receive in year one can be reinvestd at 10% for 
9 
> > years.  So that grows to $1.17.  Then you receive another fifty 
cents 
> > in year two and that grows for 8 years to $1.07.  Etc.. etc.
> 
> 
> Now we are getting somewhere.
> 
> That's what I just put in the last post.  Even if you reinvested 
each
> year at 5% you wont get to a 10% total return on investment, which 
is
> why I'm still disagreeing with you back to the starting line with 
your
> assumptions.
> 
> Now as to this post here - where is this wonderful "10%" investment
> vehicle you are so easily slipping the money into each year?
> 
> I was using real world terms.  The other Dan posted that the 
average
> CD is 3.77.
> 
> If we are going to assume the easy availability of a 10% vehicle, 
then
> revise my initial CD purchase from a 5 to a 10%.
> 
> Now your numbers fall really short.
> 
> Stick to real world terms - and your assumptions don't add up.  You
> won't get an investor interested using them.
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH

[dsher4]

I was making a JOKE. 
Lighten up Francis


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dsher4"  wrote:
> >
> > So 2+2 = 4 and it does matter what i do   :) 
> > Sorry but i had to, that one hurt my feelings.  Its bad enough 
we 
> > are in a bear  market but then you tell me im a moron, hurts my 
> > ego :)
> 
> Hurt your feelings?  It wasn't about you.
> 
> I have a personal philosophy about conversations that I've posted 
here
> before and I'll share with you now:
> 
> NO ONE is right about something because of who they are, what they 
do
> or what they've read.
> 
> They are right because they are right, independent of the above.
> 
> Here's an example:
> 
> I have a cold.
> 
> I go see a doctor.  He says I have a cold.
> 
> Is he right because of who he is, what he does or what he's read?
> 
> No. He's right because I do have a fucking cold.
> 
> If he said I didn't have one, he'd be wrong, regardless of who he 
is,
> what he does or what he has read.
> 
> See what I mean?  We are right or wrong because we are right or 
wrong,
> having nothing to do with who we are, what we do or what we have 
read.
> 
> That's why I hate personalizing in these posts so much.  
Personalizing
> in never relevant to an issue.
> 
> If you turn out to be right here disher, it's because your numbers 
are
> right - not because you are who you are.
> 
> That said, I still don't think your numbers add up using the
> assumptions you first posted.
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH

[dsher4]

You can't just multiply 1.34 million by 10 because that assumes you 
never re-invest each years payout.  


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny"  wrote:
> 
> > And I do not think you ever said anything about $13M+ originally.
> > Again it was Tom's question and example of what $8.3M would be 
worth
> > in 10 years at 5%.
> 
> Dan how many times do I have to re-post his assumptions to convince
> you that the $13M+ was his and not mine?
> 
> Here it is again.  Please read the last line:
> 
> Here are his assumptions from his post number 43285:
> 
> "The present value of that stream of free cash flows (assuming a 10
> year deal with a 10% rate of return to the investor would be 8.258
> million. After 10 years the meters would revert back to the town's
> ownership. So using those numbers an investor would be willing to 
put
> up 8.258 million to the town up front for the right to collect 
1.344
> million per year for 10 years."
> 
> 
> Isn't 1.34 million per year times 10 years 13.4 million?
> 
> That's his numbers - not mine.
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH

[dsher4]

Not exactly.
the 50 cents you receive in year one can be reinvestd at 10% for 9 
years.  So that grows to $1.17.  Then you receive another fifty cents 
in year two and that grows for 8 years to $1.07.  Etc.. etc.


> 
> That means the 50 cents you realize in year 1 of the deal is worth 
10x
> more than the 50 cents you realize in year 10, because you can
> re-invest it for an additional 10 years.
> 
> So if you took the 1.3 million and bought a CD each year at 5%, would
> you make it up to the 21 million by the time you were done?
> 
> I think you might fall short.
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH

[dsher4]

So 2+2 = 4 and it does matter what i do   :) 
Sorry but i had to, that one hurt my feelings.  Its bad enough we 
are in a bear  market but then you tell me im a moron, hurts my 
ego :)


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dsher4" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> That is correct. If you reinvested the 1.4 million  received every 
> year back into an investment that yielded 10% you would get the 
20+ 
> million.
> 
> 
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dsher4"  wrote:
> > >
> > > Geez, i went to a meeting for an hour and here is where we 
are.  
> > > 
> > > One major mistake is being made in these calculations.  
> > > 
> > > 10% grows to 21.5 million if you never take the money out and 
> you 
> > > leave it compounding for all ten years.  My example has a 
payout 
> > > each and every year and that money does not get re-invested.  
It 
> is 
> > > the difference between the return when DISTRIBUTED in a stream 
> over 
> > > time versus when it is left alone for 10 years.  The fact that 
> you 
> > > have access to the cash in each and every year is different 
than 
> the 
> > > first example.  Make Sense?
> > > 
> > I know that, which is why I posted interest on interest to you 
> before
> > and why I said it what Tom was saying was not equal to what you 
> set up
> > (although as you implied the cash flow taken each year is 
> available to
> > be reinvested each year and presumably at the same required IRR).
> >
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH

[dsher4]

That is correct. If you reinvested the 1.4 million  received every 
year back into an investment that yielded 10% you would get the 20+ 
million.


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dsher4"  wrote:
> >
> > Geez, i went to a meeting for an hour and here is where we are.  
> > 
> > One major mistake is being made in these calculations.  
> > 
> > 10% grows to 21.5 million if you never take the money out and 
you 
> > leave it compounding for all ten years.  My example has a payout 
> > each and every year and that money does not get re-invested.  It 
is 
> > the difference between the return when DISTRIBUTED in a stream 
over 
> > time versus when it is left alone for 10 years.  The fact that 
you 
> > have access to the cash in each and every year is different than 
the 
> > first example.  Make Sense?
> > 
> I know that, which is why I posted interest on interest to you 
before
> and why I said it what Tom was saying was not equal to what you 
set up
> (although as you implied the cash flow taken each year is 
available to
> be reinvested each year and presumably at the same required IRR).
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH

[dsher4]

Geez, i went to a meeting for an hour and here is where we are.  

One major mistake is being made in these calculations.  

10% grows to 21.5 million if you never take the money out and you 
leave it compounding for all ten years.  My example has a payout 
each and every year and that money does not get re-invested.  It is 
the difference between the return when DISTRIBUTED in a stream over 
time versus when it is left alone for 10 years.  The fact that you 
have access to the cash in each and every year is different than the 
first example.  Make Sense?



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright"
>  wrote:
> >
> Oy vey!
> 
> > 
> > No, I used what the other Dan S set up.
> > 
> > Here are his assumptions from his post number 43285:
> > 
> > "The present value of that stream of free cash flows (assuming a 
10
> > year deal with a 10% rate of return to the investor would be 
8.258
> > million.
> 
> 10% (not 5% like you said)
> 
> > After 10 years the meters would revert back to the town's
> > ownership. So using those numbers an investor would be willing 
to put
> > up 8.258 million to the town up front for the right to collect 
1.344
> > million per year for 10 years."
> >
> 
> I reiterate, $8.3M grows to $13M+ in 10 years at 5% (your rate)
> 
> $8.3M grows to $21M+ in 10 years at 10% (Dan's rate)
> 
> What is the problem?
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH

[dsher4]

OK hold on - let me explain

one example is 8.3 million tied up for 10 years. your 5% example.  
you get 5% on 8.3 each year or $415,000

The example i gave is 8.3 million up front like your example, but 
you receive 1.34 million each year that you can then re-invest in 
something else. 

SO, it is a better stream of cash flows 

Trust me on this one, i do this for a living 




--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> That's right - which is why I don't think the posts have been 
> correct in calling the deal as presented a 10% rate of return to 
the 
> investor.  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright"
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > So if I put 8.3 million in a safe investment vehicle with 5% 
> > > compounded annually, how much would I have at the end of 10 
> years?
> > > 
> > 
> > $ amount X (1 + i)^n
> > 
> >  i = rate of interest
> >  n = compounding periods
> > 
> > Let's you find the compound interest factor
> > 
> > The answer using your numbers
> > 
> > $8.3M X (1 +5%)^10
> > $8.3M X 1.628895
> > 
> > $13.519825M
> > 
> > Go in reverse. What is the present value of $13.519825 to be 
> received
> > in 10 years assuming a 5% interest rate.
> > 
> > Present value factor is reciprocal 1/(1+i)^n
> > 
> > $13.519825M X 1/(1+5%)^10
> > $13.519825M X .613913 = $8.3M
> >
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH

[dsher4]

Not necessarily.  
Municipal bonds are tax free for one
Secondly, we just randomly picked a 10% return.  We could increase 
the return to 12% for example. 
Third the paramaters around a bond can have infinite scenario's.  
example, the investor and town could split the revenues over a  
certain threshold.  
There are many possibilities

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I believe that shows that under the example we have been dealing 
> with today, the amount calculated for present value and rate of 
> return is off by a great deal if we are going to attract an 
investor 
> for a ten year period.
> 
> As the below number shows, he can throw it all in a nice safe CD 
and 
> make more.
> 
> 
> 
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dsher4"  wrote:
> >
> > $13,519,825 and 40 cents
> > 
> > 
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright" 
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > So if I put 8.3 million in a safe investment vehicle with 5% 
> > > compounded annually, how much would I have at the end of 10 
> years?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny"  
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright"
> > > >  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > The investor would want a discount for present value.
> > > > > 
> > > > > They aren't going to give you 50 cents now for 50 cents 
they 
> > are 
> > > > > going to get from a meter 10 years from now, so you can 
> invest 
> > > it 
> > > > > and double the money.
> > > > > 
> > > > > They may as well invest it and double their money.
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Stick to the law. A yield or cap rate converts future 
dollars 
> to
> > > > present value.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH

[dsher4]

$13,519,825 and 40 cents


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> So if I put 8.3 million in a safe investment vehicle with 5% 
> compounded annually, how much would I have at the end of 10 years?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright"
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > The investor would want a discount for present value.
> > > 
> > > They aren't going to give you 50 cents now for 50 cents they 
are 
> > > going to get from a meter 10 years from now, so you can invest 
> it 
> > > and double the money.
> > > 
> > > They may as well invest it and double their money.
> > > 
> > 
> > Stick to the law. A yield or cap rate converts future dollars to
> > present value.
> >
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH

[dsher4]

All good points.  At the risk of being incestuous perhaps they 
should approach MM about this setup.  That way it is in each parties 
best interest to make sure the area continues to improve.  Maybe 
that is insanity but thought i'd throw it out there

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dsher4"  wrote:
> >
>  
> > Return in this instance is IRR but takes into account the time 
value 
> > of money. 
> 
> Always does.
> 
> > Remember that to the investor the initial returns are 
> > negative but the out year returns are very postive but averaged 
out 
> > equates to 10%.  Or put another way, it takes about 6 years for 
the 
> > investor to break even but then years 6-10 are all gravy but the 
> > overall IRR is 10% (again no leverage is used)
> > 
> > I didn't use a cap rate because the investor has no ownership at 
the 
> > end of a term.
> 
> Agreed, 10-year term too short for perpetuity.
> 
> >  That is the same reason i didn't include change in 
> > value because that will benefit the town, not the investor.
> >
> 
> Change in value means change in income and value. Parking rates 
stay
> the same for 10 years? Maybe.
> 
>  
> > The only snafu is that the town would probably have to guarantee 
the 
> > payment stream because no investor in their right mind would 
sign up 
> > such a deal without collateral to fall back on.
> 
> Risk. That's why they get a 10% return - the return includes what
> perceived risk there is. If the city guarantees the level of 
parking
> fees then the IRR should be the city's credit rating (let's not go
> there). All the city has to guarantee is the lessee's right to 
collect
> the parking fees during the lease period.
> 
> > This is where a lot of the interesting scenario's come in but 
> > requires the town to not "screw it up".  The town could 
guarantee a 
> > specific payment but then keep any overages.  The investor has a 
> > guaranteed income stream and the town gets the money's over a 
> > certain level.  The rub is that you are making a bet that 
> > redevelopment continues, the meters bring in the "forecasted 
> > revenues" and that is probably just too dicey considering the 
town's 
> > current situation.  I wonder if the state would work with the 
town 
> > so Asbury can get off the dole with some performance metrics 
> > outlined to make sure redevelopment continues on course.  I'm 
just 
> > free associating here so feel free to add if anyone has any 
other 
> > ideas.  
> 
> Since we already incurred the cost of the meters, and enforce the
> regs, I think it would be foolish to lease them out. If we had not 
put
> them in yet, then part of the lease would be the obligation of the
> lessee to install the meters and pay for the enforcement and
> collection of the fees. Sort of like a laundry contract in an
> apartment building.
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH

[dsher4]

Or to put really simply, this is a municipal Bond structure.



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dsher4" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> the 10% takes all of that into account.  Think of this as a bond 
to 
> the investor.  Just like people put up a $100 to get a 4% 
guaranteed 
> return from the U.S treasury.  Doubling your money requires some 
> risk parameters
> 
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright" 
>  wrote:
> >
> > The investor would want a discount for present value.
> > 
> > They aren't going to give you 50 cents now for 50 cents they are 
> > going to get from a meter 10 years from now, so you can invest 
it 
> > and double the money.
> > 
> > They may as well invest it and double their money.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dsher4"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The present value of that stream of free cash flows 
(assuming 
> a 
> > 10 
> > > > year deal with a 10% rate of return to the investor would be 
> > 8.258 
> > > > million.  After 10 years the meters would revert back to the 
> > town's 
> > > > ownership.  So using those numbers an investor would be 
> willing 
> > to put 
> > > > up 8.258 million to the town up front for the right to 
collect 
> > 1.344 
> > > > million per year for 10 years.  The investor gets a 10% 
> return, 
> > Asbury 
> > > > get's a big up front payment to bridge a budget gap and the 
> > meters 
> > > > revert back to the town after year 10 so Asbury doesn't 
> mortgage 
> > its 
> > > > future earnings power.
> > > > 
> > > > Dan S.  
> > > >  
> > > 
> > > Your math only holds true for a short period (no reversionary
> > > interest) and does not account for appreciation (increase in 
> > parking
> > > fees).  What do you mean by return? IRR or return ON capital 
or 
> cap
> > > rate - a return OF and ON capital.
> > > 
> > > There is a difference between YIELD (Y) and CAP (R) rates. 
> Because 
> > R =
> > > Y - Change in Value, if there is appreciation (increase in 
value 
> as
> > > there always is - and would be in this case IF the operator 
could
> > > increase parking fees over the 10-year period), Y (yield, 
> discount,
> > > interest rate or IRR) is almost always higher than the R (cap 
> > rate).
> > > 
> > > Thus, if the investor is looking for an IRR of 10%, the cap 
rate 
> is
> > > lower. I was going to reply to oaks post that I would think a 
> cap 
> > rate
> > > of 6%-8% would be appropriate. Last year it was probably under 
> 5%. 
> > > 
> > > At 6%, the $1.344M would be worth $22.4M assuming the income 
> stream
> > > could be capitalized into perpetuity ($1.344/6%). Under 
> something 
> > like
> > > Oak suggests (75-year term) direct capitalization would be more
> > > appropriate than your discounting method, and even that does 
not
> > > account for an increase in the income over the 10-years. (a 
CAP 
> > rate
> > > reflects the relationship between a SINGLE estimate of income 
and
> > > value, while a YIELD rate is the relationship between a SERIES 
of
> > > incomes and value.)
> > > 
> > > The parking spaces in AP are very valuable but SHOULD not be 
> > leased in
> > > my opinion, unless on a short-term basis with kickers and 
> sharing 
> > of
> > > revenues.
> > > 
> > > Getting the money up front would only makes us blow it.
> > >
> >
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH

[dsher4]

the 10% takes all of that into account.  Think of this as a bond to 
the investor.  Just like people put up a $100 to get a 4% guaranteed 
return from the U.S treasury.  Doubling your money requires some 
risk parameters

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> The investor would want a discount for present value.
> 
> They aren't going to give you 50 cents now for 50 cents they are 
> going to get from a meter 10 years from now, so you can invest it 
> and double the money.
> 
> They may as well invest it and double their money.
> 
> 
> 
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dsher4"  wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > The present value of that stream of free cash flows (assuming 
a 
> 10 
> > > year deal with a 10% rate of return to the investor would be 
> 8.258 
> > > million.  After 10 years the meters would revert back to the 
> town's 
> > > ownership.  So using those numbers an investor would be 
willing 
> to put 
> > > up 8.258 million to the town up front for the right to collect 
> 1.344 
> > > million per year for 10 years.  The investor gets a 10% 
return, 
> Asbury 
> > > get's a big up front payment to bridge a budget gap and the 
> meters 
> > > revert back to the town after year 10 so Asbury doesn't 
mortgage 
> its 
> > > future earnings power.
> > > 
> > > Dan S.  
> > >  
> > 
> > Your math only holds true for a short period (no reversionary
> > interest) and does not account for appreciation (increase in 
> parking
> > fees).  What do you mean by return? IRR or return ON capital or 
cap
> > rate - a return OF and ON capital.
> > 
> > There is a difference between YIELD (Y) and CAP (R) rates. 
Because 
> R =
> > Y - Change in Value, if there is appreciation (increase in value 
as
> > there always is - and would be in this case IF the operator could
> > increase parking fees over the 10-year period), Y (yield, 
discount,
> > interest rate or IRR) is almost always higher than the R (cap 
> rate).
> > 
> > Thus, if the investor is looking for an IRR of 10%, the cap rate 
is
> > lower. I was going to reply to oaks post that I would think a 
cap 
> rate
> > of 6%-8% would be appropriate. Last year it was probably under 
5%. 
> > 
> > At 6%, the $1.344M would be worth $22.4M assuming the income 
stream
> > could be capitalized into perpetuity ($1.344/6%). Under 
something 
> like
> > Oak suggests (75-year term) direct capitalization would be more
> > appropriate than your discounting method, and even that does not
> > account for an increase in the income over the 10-years. (a CAP 
> rate
> > reflects the relationship between a SINGLE estimate of income and
> > value, while a YIELD rate is the relationship between a SERIES of
> > incomes and value.)
> > 
> > The parking spaces in AP are very valuable but SHOULD not be 
> leased in
> > my opinion, unless on a short-term basis with kickers and 
sharing 
> of
> > revenues.
> > 
> > Getting the money up front would only makes us blow it.
> >
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH

[dsher4]

Hopefully not boring everyone on the board with financial lingo i 
will try to answer as simply as possible.  

I purposefully didn't run this into perpetuity because i think it 
would be absurd to give up the rights to ownership forever.  Hence 
my ten year term.  I could have picked 30 years which is how many 
such projects are financed.  Obviously the longer the period the 
more the upfront payment to the town.  

Return in this instance is IRR but takes into account the time value 
of money.  Remember that to the investor the initial returns are 
negative but the out year returns are very postive but averaged out 
equates to 10%.  Or put another way, it takes about 6 years for the 
investor to break even but then years 6-10 are all gravy but the 
overall IRR is 10% (again no leverage is used)

I didn't use a cap rate because the investor has no ownership at the 
end of a term.  That is the same reason i didn't include change in 
value because that will benefit the town, not the investor.

The only snafu is that the town would probably have to guarantee the 
payment stream because no investor in their right mind would sign up 
such a deal without collateral to fall back on.  So because they 
don't own the spots, the investor would need a guarantee.  

This is where a lot of the interesting scenario's come in but 
requires the town to not "screw it up".  The town could guarantee a 
specific payment but then keep any overages.  The investor has a 
guaranteed income stream and the town gets the money's over a 
certain level.  The rub is that you are making a bet that 
redevelopment continues, the meters bring in the "forecasted 
revenues" and that is probably just too dicey considering the town's 
current situation.  I wonder if the state would work with the town 
so Asbury can get off the dole with some performance metrics 
outlined to make sure redevelopment continues on course.  I'm just 
free associating here so feel free to add if anyone has any other 
ideas.  

 
> >  
> 
> Your math only holds true for a short period (no reversionary
> interest) and does not account for appreciation (increase in 
parking
> fees).  What do you mean by return? IRR or return ON capital or cap
> rate - a return OF and ON capital.
> 
> There is a difference between YIELD (Y) and CAP (R) rates. Because 
R =
> Y - Change in Value, if there is appreciation (increase in value as
> there always is - and would be in this case IF the operator could
> increase parking fees over the 10-year period), Y (yield, discount,
> interest rate or IRR) is almost always higher than the R (cap 
rate).
> 
> Thus, if the investor is looking for an IRR of 10%, the cap rate is
> lower. I was going to reply to oaks post that I would think a cap 
rate
> of 6%-8% would be appropriate. Last year it was probably under 5%. 
> 
> At 6%, the $1.344M would be worth $22.4M assuming the income stream
> could be capitalized into perpetuity ($1.344/6%). Under something 
like
> Oak suggests (75-year term) direct capitalization would be more
> appropriate than your discounting method, and even that does not
> account for an increase in the income over the 10-years. (a CAP 
rate
> reflects the relationship between a SINGLE estimate of income and
> value, while a YIELD rate is the relationship between a SERIES of
> incomes and value.)
> 
> The parking spaces in AP are very valuable but SHOULD not be 
leased in
> my opinion, unless on a short-term basis with kickers and sharing 
of
> revenues.
> 
> Getting the money up front would only makes us blow it.
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park's Parking Meters Worth $37 MILLION? - THE MATH

[dsher4]

Here is how the math works.  Most investors would be looking for a 10% 
rate of return, maybe more in this environment.  So if we calculate 
how much money the meters could generate in a given year, we could 
also figure out how much an investor would be willing to put up in an 
upfront payment for the rights to that future stream of cash flow.  
I believe there are about 2000 spots.  If we assume they each collect 
50 cents an hour for 12 hours for each day of the summer we get the 
following numbers (again these are just assumptions).  16 weeks of 
summer times 7 days per week is 112 prospective days.  At 2000 meters, 
12 hours per day at 50 cents (nothing assumed for off season) you 
generate 1.344 million per year (the town could keep the fees from 
parking tickets not assumed here).  
The present value of that stream of free cash flows (assuming a 10 
year deal with a 10% rate of return to the investor would be 8.258 
million.  After 10 years the meters would revert back to the town's 
ownership.  So using those numbers an investor would be willing to put 
up 8.258 million to the town up front for the right to collect 1.344 
million per year for 10 years.  The investor gets a 10% return, Asbury 
get's a big up front payment to bridge a budget gap and the meters 
revert back to the town after year 10 so Asbury doesn't mortgage its 
future earnings power.

Dan S.  
 


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "oakdorf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "oakdorf"  wrote:
> >
> 
> 
> here's another read.
> 
> Realize for once, that those parking spaces are GOLD. 
> 
> But don't take the money upfront, cause it would just get pissed 
away.
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

asburypark@yahoogroups.com

[dsher4]

Werner,

In most times it would work well, the only snafu is that in the 
current environment with so many empty condo's on the market, you 
will be competing with many other establishments.  


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "wernerapnj" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dsher4"  wrote:
> >
> > Let's do some simple math.  If you built a 60 room hotel with 
> > interesting architecture.  Perhaps like something you see in 
Ocean 
> > grove or even something like you see in sprink lake.  If you 
could 
> > fill it up for the 16 weeks of the summer at full occupancy.  
Say 
> > $200 per night.  16 weeks at 7 days per week at 200 per night 
would 
> > yield $1.34 million in revenue.  Assume 30% falls to the bottom 
line 
> > after tax.  Would net the owner 400k per year.  My guess is the 
> > initial outlay to build thought would be close to 10 million.  
So 
> > you would have to count on some occupancy in the "shoulder" 
months.  
> > 
> > I also agree with Jack, The Tides is an awesome place 
> 
=
=
> 
> As you know I have serious financial issues with my home, however 
I'm
> trying to arrange some financing to get my units rentable again.
> 
> Do you think there would be a market in the spring for seasonal
> furnished apartment rentals? Or perhaps weekly/monthly/weekend 
rentals?
> 
> I see it as an alternative to Hotel or B&B type establishments.
> Private, self contained, and perhaps priced below either of the 
other two.
> 
> Opinions ?
> 
> Werner
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

asburypark@yahoogroups.com

[dsher4]

Let's do some simple math.  If you built a 60 room hotel with 
interesting architecture.  Perhaps like something you see in Ocean 
grove or even something like you see in sprink lake.  If you could 
fill it up for the 16 weeks of the summer at full occupancy.  Say 
$200 per night.  16 weeks at 7 days per week at 200 per night would 
yield $1.34 million in revenue.  Assume 30% falls to the bottom line 
after tax.  Would net the owner 400k per year.  My guess is the 
initial outlay to build thought would be close to 10 million.  So 
you would have to count on some occupancy in the "shoulder" months.  

I also agree with Jack, The Tides is an awesome place 


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "oakdorf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dsher4"  wrote:
> 
> > How many rooms there are in other towns and what level of supply 
would 
> > be too much.  Does anyone have any insight on this topic?
> > 
> > dan
> >
> 
> Enough rooms that owners want to buy more or add on... 
> 
> You can go to AC in the summer and not get a room or get one, but 
pay
> out the nose or today, drive down Rt 30 toards the marina disrict -
> and see rooms from abou $29 sun-thursday... or get free rooms in 
the
> hotels or $79 rooms at the casinos...
> 
> I was in hollywood fl got a room via price at a hyatt place... via
> priceline cheap.
> 
> YOu need a mix, a choice. The problem is, you need the land to 
build
> it on. Would a 25 story hotel work? That's grand. Would a 100 room
> "family" hotel work?
> 
> Right now having extra hotel rooms is not the problem. That's my
> thoughts for what it's worth. Throw a holiday express or other 
simple
> style hotel and you have alomst the whole shore to draw from -
 "steps"
> to the beach...
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

asburypark@yahoogroups.com

[dsher4]

Not sure if this topic has already been discussed in the distant 
past.  I wonder how many hotels/B&B's would make sense for Asbury now 
that there is a decent boardwalk for people to utilize in the summer.  
How many rooms there are in other towns and what level of supply would 
be too much.  Does anyone have any insight on this topic?

dan




Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: Knock, Knock...Hellooo....

[dsher4]

We own CSCO not BLK and i was more just making a point


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "oakdorf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- so what do we have a BUY on CSCO and BLK for long term?
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: Knock, Knock...Hellooo....

[dsher4]

I guess the real question for all of us is whether they have further 
capital to put to work and if the AP investment was done by MM for 
MM or through one of their other investment vehicles.  Another 
thought, perhaps Gary was saying that MM put up the 60 million in 
cash for the fund using no leverage but the fund itself has 
leverage.  

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dsher4"  wrote:
> >
> > This is the quote from the piece "The Fund will see 350 million 
of 
> > equity capital commitments and target a gross internal rate of 
> > return of 18% with leverage representing n more than 70% of 
total 
> > portfolio cost.  So leverage was used.  
> > 
> 
> Maybe leverage was used for that fund and perhaps it was if it was 
for
> other acquisitions. But Mottola's remarks in the press release 
suggest
> no debt on the $60M invested in AP. I assume that means the BW and
> Wesley Grove because $60M is not in the BW alone.
> 
> "We have spent $60 million so far on just the boardwalk and
> entertainment venues and have no debt on this," Mottola said. "In
> today's market, being debt-free is very important.
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: Knock, Knock...Hellooo....

[dsher4]

Be careful using stock prices to talk about the strenght or lack 
thereoff of a company.  In a bear market most stocks get hit very 
hard.  Cisco is one of the worlds most dominant companies, has a huge 
cash balance and nothing to do with CDO's mortgages etc, and has 
corrected from 34 to 14.  The guys at Blackrock are very good.   



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "oakdorf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dsher4"  wrote:
> >
> > Also, BlackRock Realty and the Harvard Endowment are two of the 
most 
> > sophisticated alternative investment investors in the world.  
> 
> And Blackrock was the darling of the street. But like the rest of 
the 
> now public co's (and don't look real hard why they went public) from 
> their high of around 250 or more, they are now around 100 and have 
alot 
> of issues in their closet.
> 
> But thanks for adding some expert advice on what that really means.
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: Knock, Knock...Hellooo....

[dsher4]

This is the quote from the piece "The Fund will see 350 million of 
equity capital commitments and target a gross internal rate of 
return of 18% with leverage representing n more than 70% of total 
portfolio cost.  So leverage was used.  



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dsher4"  wrote:
> >
> > Guys, 
> > 
> > Keep in mind that 18% IRR is on a levered basis.  The unlevered 
> > return is less than that.  Also putting up 16% of the capital 
from 
> > insiders is a healthy chunk of money.  This does not seem like 
an 
> > outrageous set of parameters.
> > 
> > Dan S
> > 
> 
> MM said it was debt free so there is no leverage. I certainly have
> seen my clients' leveraged IRRs be very high, higher than their 
equity
> partners. But when this fund was put together it was the days when
> even  the equity was borrowed.
> 
> I do not think they are seeing an 18% IRR
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "oakdorf"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "wernerapnj"  
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > didn't say it HAD to be returned, but IS there that 
possibility? 
> > > 
> > > This is the Penn Retirement Systems summary of their decision 
to 
> > > invest in the MM Retail Enhancement Fund.
> > > 
> > > 
http://www.psers.state.pa.us/org/board/resolutions/2007/madison.pdf
> > > 
> > > They way I read it, MM was looking at an 18% Internal Rate of 
> > Return 
> > > (IRR). If you really understand the purpose of IRR, then you 
good 
> > for 
> > > you.
> > > 
> > > This is the document. I'm curious to here your and other 
people 
> > with 
> > > an underestanding of investments like this and what the MM 
Retail 
> > > Enhancement Fund MIGHT be obiligated to do and if they have 
even 
> > > tapped into the monies from this fund, or by reading the doc, 
it 
> > > looks like MM had to put up $60m of their own money. $60m 
seems to 
> > be 
> > > the number being thrown around.
> > > 
> > > It look like from the rad that Wells Fargo was also to be or 
was a 
> > > contributor to this fund. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Your thoughts?
> > >
> >
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: Knock, Knock...Hellooo....

[dsher4]

Also, BlackRock Realty and the Harvard Endowment are two of the most 
sophisticated alternative investment investors in the world.  The 
fact that they are partnered with these types of people is a plus 
for sure because Harvard does tremendous due diligence.  



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dsher4" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Guys, 
> 
> Keep in mind that 18% IRR is on a levered basis.  The unlevered 
> return is less than that.  Also putting up 16% of the capital from 
> insiders is a healthy chunk of money.  This does not seem like an 
> outrageous set of parameters.
> 
> Dan S
> 
> 
> 
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "oakdorf"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "wernerapnj"  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > 
> > didn't say it HAD to be returned, but IS there that possibility? 
> > 
> > This is the Penn Retirement Systems summary of their decision to 
> > invest in the MM Retail Enhancement Fund.
> > 
> > 
http://www.psers.state.pa.us/org/board/resolutions/2007/madison.pdf
> > 
> > They way I read it, MM was looking at an 18% Internal Rate of 
> Return 
> > (IRR). If you really understand the purpose of IRR, then you 
good 
> for 
> > you.
> > 
> > This is the document. I'm curious to here your and other people 
> with 
> > an underestanding of investments like this and what the MM 
Retail 
> > Enhancement Fund MIGHT be obiligated to do and if they have even 
> > tapped into the monies from this fund, or by reading the doc, it 
> > looks like MM had to put up $60m of their own money. $60m seems 
to 
> be 
> > the number being thrown around.
> > 
> > It look like from the rad that Wells Fargo was also to be or was 
a 
> > contributor to this fund. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Your thoughts?
> >
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: Knock, Knock...Hellooo....

[dsher4]

Guys, 

Keep in mind that 18% IRR is on a levered basis.  The unlevered 
return is less than that.  Also putting up 16% of the capital from 
insiders is a healthy chunk of money.  This does not seem like an 
outrageous set of parameters.

Dan S



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "oakdorf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "wernerapnj"  
> wrote:
> >
> > 
> 
> didn't say it HAD to be returned, but IS there that possibility? 
> 
> This is the Penn Retirement Systems summary of their decision to 
> invest in the MM Retail Enhancement Fund.
> 
> http://www.psers.state.pa.us/org/board/resolutions/2007/madison.pdf
> 
> They way I read it, MM was looking at an 18% Internal Rate of 
Return 
> (IRR). If you really understand the purpose of IRR, then you good 
for 
> you.
> 
> This is the document. I'm curious to here your and other people 
with 
> an underestanding of investments like this and what the MM Retail 
> Enhancement Fund MIGHT be obiligated to do and if they have even 
> tapped into the monies from this fund, or by reading the doc, it 
> looks like MM had to put up $60m of their own money. $60m seems to 
be 
> the number being thrown around.
> 
> It look like from the rad that Wells Fargo was also to be or was a 
> contributor to this fund. 
> 
> 
> 
> Your thoughts?
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: more on the "fund"... and on MM

[dsher4]

We have to be careful what we wish for here.  The disaster scenario 
would be MM pulls out of Asbury and nobody else steps up to take 
over the project because other real estate opportunities are trading 
at distressed prices now but don't have nearly the risk that Asbury 
has.  Or MM funds for Asbury get diverted elsewhere because of the 
opportunities arising.  I spent all day at a distressed conference 
today and spectacular properties are trading at enormous discounts.  

It becomes very difficult, virtually impossible to get funding for 
long term projects in this environment particularly ones that don't 
generate near term cash flow (asbury is a long tailed, long term 
cash flow play with big potential reward but bad near term 
economics).  

I wonder what the cotingency plan would be if MM backed out and cut 
its losses to focus elsewhere.  This is probably a much more serious 
risk than most on this board perceive.  Any thoughts?

dan S.  


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "oakdorf"  wrote:
> >
> > Very interesting (maybe boring for some), but from this read, 
$60m 
> > (that number again) seems that was MM.s money, then this pension 
> > system, Jan 2007, kicked in $125m (25%). Dan would be the best 
to 
> > comment I guess.
> > 
> > 
http://www.psers.state.pa.us/org/board/resolutions/2007/madison.pdf
> > 
> > Some of their analyis on the economy and commercial vacancy 
rates from 
> > today's view, is off.
> > 
> > That coincides with numbers on the commercial side predicting 
higher 
> > vacany rates even on commercial spaces. Like MM, I have a client 
with a 
> > shopping center half full, current tenants in a panic. They are 
ready 
> > to offer one year free rent to get new business in and/or a 
piece of 
> > the business.
> >
> 
> How many have egg on their faces? I thought the market was going to
> tank in 2005, 2006 and 2007. I was finally right. 
> 
> Tons of valuations were wrong. Big deals in NYC going/gone south.
> Macklowe destroyed (again). Tishman Speyer may not make it with 
their
> heady purchases of Peter Cooper Village and Stuyvesant Town.
> Archstone, Blackstone and others' deals unwinding. Everyone forming
> groups to assist in distressed properties.
> 
> Ha! Sort of like the doctor being your undertaker too. Not only 
can we
> guard your health, but if you don;t make, don't worry, we can bury 
you
> too. Nothing like one-stop shopping.
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: WoW - TGIO - Response to New bee

[dsher4]

first of all, i'd like an example of my drivel?

second of all, i was referring to your judgement of an entire town by 
what is posted by 15 people on an internet message board.  

Third, i have been an advocate of not having political discussions on 
this board.

Fourth, and this one is important - Memorial day for completion was 
never a possibility.  We all knew that and discussed it when that was 
announced during the winter.  It was physically impossible to 
complete in that timeframe.  It was done to create a buzz about the 
town to outsiders and to force the hand of the local government to 
act in a business like fashion and not a political fashion (I'm not 
sure if you know about the 100k dollars Madison marquette had in 
escrow to expedite meetings, decisions, approvals etc.. that the town 
would have to deal with due to overtime to town employees).  It was 
probably also done so that everyone was aware of how fast the 
developers wanted to move and they wouldn't tolerate "the kickbacks" 
and under the table payments that have gone on in this town and 
others in Jersey for generations. 

I was not lied to by Madison Marquette, they spent a boatload of 
money this summer to make things better.  I am not going to be a 
maniac over a date that was meant to spark enthusiasm and get the 
wheels in motion. 

We also live in a town that has drugs and gangs, so much for your 
fantasyland.  We came here to hopefully be a part of something that 
improves.  Why don't you do the same or go spread your cheer in 
another town.
 

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "New Beetoap" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> What is wrong with you ? I did go downtown, I did shop, I did enjoy 
the boards and 
> beach. I had a good time, I told you (all) that previously.
> 
> None of that good experience has anything to do with my 
observations that AP just did 
> not live up to advertised expectations. Is that not clear??
> 
> The media reported that the beach would be finished by Memorial 
day - That was what 
> the developer himself said. I didn't make the promise. I asume from 
your past posts that 
> you are a local. Doesn't it concern you that you are being lied to? 
Doesn't it concern you 
> that visitors come and go somewhat surprised and disappointed with 
the lack of 
> completion ?
> 
> What is wrong with you that you write such unrelated and 
nonsensical drivel? The 
> developer made promises, the media and town made promises, I know 
what i hear, see 
> and read. Seems that you (all) live in a fantasy land where nothing 
can be amiss.
> 
> And, yes this board is a reflection of the people is town. I bet 
most of the regulars who 
> post are closely related to AP happenings. Too close to the fire I 
guess to be open 
> minded to outsiders observations.
> 
> 
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dsher4"  wrote:
> >
> > Hey New Bee,  YOU WAKE UP
> > 
> > If you think that you can judge the character of a place or its 
> > people by what is typed on a board, you are dillusional.  Go hang 
> > out downtown and get a bite to eat at some of the nice 
restaurants 
> > or shop in the eclectic stores on Cookman.  
> > 
> > Enjoy the beautiful beach and boardwalk.  
> > 
> > Revel in the diversity of people and get to know them face to 
face.  
> > Until you do i would rather you reserve judgement.  
> > 
> > You complain and make judgements about timelines.  Don't knock 
> > someone who is actually doing something when you have the 
audacity 
> > to be lazy enough to judge a whole community by what is typed on 
a 
> > board by the same 15 people.  
> > 
> > Dan S.  
> > 
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "New Beetoap"  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > Thank God Its Over
> > > 
> > > What a huge huge bad impression the posts on this board have 
made.
> > > I cant believe the crap that came from some of you. Completely 
> > changed
> > > my impression of the caliber of people in AP. No wonder AP has 
been
> > > sooo messed up for sooo long.
> > > 
> > > OK, so I'm a outsider, My opinion doesn't count... Right? Wake 
up,
> > > this is a publicly readable board and if you think the past 
weeks 
> > have
> > > made a good impression and will encourage people to visit AP 
you 
> > are
> > > out of your minds.
> > > 
> > > I turned some friends on to the group thinking they could back 
me 
> > up
> > > about the importance of visual impressions and the delivering 
what 
> > was
> > > promised. WoW... did they get a wakeup reading all that crap

[AsburyPark] Re: WoW - TGIO

[dsher4]

and yes i spelled delusional wrong

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dsher4" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hey New Bee,  YOU WAKE UP
> 
> If you think that you can judge the character of a place or its 
> people by what is typed on a board, you are dillusional.  Go hang 
> out downtown and get a bite to eat at some of the nice restaurants 
> or shop in the eclectic stores on Cookman.  
> 
> Enjoy the beautiful beach and boardwalk.  
> 
> Revel in the diversity of people and get to know them face to 
face.  
> Until you do i would rather you reserve judgement.  
> 
> You complain and make judgements about timelines.  Don't knock 
> someone who is actually doing something when you have the audacity 
> to be lazy enough to judge a whole community by what is typed on a 
> board by the same 15 people.  
> 
> Dan S.  
> 
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "New Beetoap"  
> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > Thank God Its Over
> > 
> > What a huge huge bad impression the posts on this board have 
made.
> > I cant believe the crap that came from some of you. Completely 
> changed
> > my impression of the caliber of people in AP. No wonder AP has 
been
> > sooo messed up for sooo long.
> > 
> > OK, so I'm a outsider, My opinion doesn't count... Right? Wake 
up,
> > this is a publicly readable board and if you think the past 
weeks 
> have
> > made a good impression and will encourage people to visit AP you 
> are
> > out of your minds.
> > 
> > I turned some friends on to the group thinking they could back 
me 
> up
> > about the importance of visual impressions and the delivering 
what 
> was
> > promised. WoW... did they get a wakeup reading all that crap.
> > 
> > They, and I'm sure many lurkers, or just people who got here by 
> google
> > are shocked by the nastiness and will not even think of visiting 
> now.
> > 
> > Does it matter? Is the beach done yet? . Lets see, it was 
> supposed
> > to be last Memorial day.
> >
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: WoW - TGIO

[dsher4]

Hey New Bee,  YOU WAKE UP

If you think that you can judge the character of a place or its 
people by what is typed on a board, you are dillusional.  Go hang 
out downtown and get a bite to eat at some of the nice restaurants 
or shop in the eclectic stores on Cookman.  

Enjoy the beautiful beach and boardwalk.  

Revel in the diversity of people and get to know them face to face.  
Until you do i would rather you reserve judgement.  

You complain and make judgements about timelines.  Don't knock 
someone who is actually doing something when you have the audacity 
to be lazy enough to judge a whole community by what is typed on a 
board by the same 15 people.  

Dan S.  

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "New Beetoap" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> 
> Thank God Its Over
> 
> What a huge huge bad impression the posts on this board have made.
> I cant believe the crap that came from some of you. Completely 
changed
> my impression of the caliber of people in AP. No wonder AP has been
> sooo messed up for sooo long.
> 
> OK, so I'm a outsider, My opinion doesn't count... Right? Wake up,
> this is a publicly readable board and if you think the past weeks 
have
> made a good impression and will encourage people to visit AP you 
are
> out of your minds.
> 
> I turned some friends on to the group thinking they could back me 
up
> about the importance of visual impressions and the delivering what 
was
> promised. WoW... did they get a wakeup reading all that crap.
> 
> They, and I'm sure many lurkers, or just people who got here by 
google
> are shocked by the nastiness and will not even think of visiting 
now.
> 
> Does it matter? Is the beach done yet? . Lets see, it was 
supposed
> to be last Memorial day.
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] The Real Truth regarding housing

[dsher4]

This is by no means an exhaustive explanation because i don't have 
time to write a disertation.  Because i know something about 
finance, my friends asked me to detail what actually happened in a 
readers digest version.  Below is a copy of what i replied.  

Lets examine the truth for a second and who is at fault. Here is a 
nice list.
> 
> Fannie and Freddie and others - who made foolish loans to people 
who couldn't afford them. Why did they do this --->
> 
> Because after years of running stable institutions they 
were "persuaded" by mostly democratic politicians to relax lending 
standards so low income people could afford homes. So instead of 
paying 9% because they were a high risk, they got to pay 6% like the 
rest of us who are good credits and pay our bills on time. This went 
on for a decade.
> 
> Exacerbated by a moron named Alan Greenspan who everyone adores 
but if you know anything about finance you will know he is an idiot 
who raised and lowered rates too aggressively and inflated the 
housing boom by leaving rates at 1%.
> 
> Then you have the all the mortgage originators (who preyed on 
consumers) and who were not at all monitored by any of the so called 
gov't agencies who are never at fault and need pay raises because 
they work so hard.
> 
> Then you take the wall street banks (about 98% republicans) who 
are greedy for the moment bastards who will sell you snake oil to 
make a fee because they won't be at that job more than 2 years so 
who cares if the loan is on the books, you are already at a new 
firm. They packaged these securities to generate fees and big 
bonuses without regard to accountability (there is that term again). 
Lets not mention that these banks were supposed to be monitored by 
gov't people such as the head of the SEC Chris Cox and his 
compatriots. No comment there, too much to write.
> 
> And lastly you have consumers, who if they actually took 
responsibility for their actions once and a while, most of them 
wouldn't be in this mess. We all know how much we make and what we 
can afford on a mortgage. How about not taking a loan for 65% or 
more of your take home pay.
> 
> It's both parties who are responsible (dems and republicans) and 
many people. Just thought it might be nice to know the truth rather 
than the crap that is spewed on TV. Comments welcome, have a nice 
day.





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: OMG - WTF - Again !

[dsher4]

This post is extremely well done.  I second these thoughts


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Gabrielle Obre" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> You write some of my feelings in a more adult manner. thanks, i 
too am
> enjoying AP in all stages of its metamorphosis. 
> 
> i find this need to see asbury as some sort of iconic town living 
up
> to its past interesting. why can't it simply be a town of great 
music,
> delicious food, a fun place to drink, a safe place to spend money, 
a
> good place to have a business etc. in my experience it is those 
things
> right now.  its also a great place to get your bike stolen..we 
caught
> our thief last night. the ap police are a pleasure to deal with.
> 
> i have no idea if there are shady dealings with MM and the city. we
> will never find out via the APP. Many thanks are due to Maureen for
> her efforts at providing info and maintaining her site. i still 
think
> a cooperative news/info site would be amazing, but understand the
> difficulties.
> 
> sorry to all those disturbed by the aesthetics, i think asbury is
> beautiful. i am grateful for that, makes my existence more 
enjoyable.
> i was chatting with a man with architect experience and as we had 
some
> wine at the bb we fantasized about what would look great along the 
BW.
> my first dream was an Alexander Calder like sculpture/bdg...off to 
the
> Whitney to see his Paris works.
> 
> Newbee...not sure what to say to you. the board is small minded,
> asbury is a joke to you, you don't live here and havent been in a
> while. i just don't get your presence here then. asbury doesn't 
need
> to be a pacifier to all those with romantic childhood memories.
> 
> i never thought i would be in the position of defending a 
developer,
> but i would like people to think about what it takes to open the
> number of businesses they are linked to, create the number of jobs 
in
> those businesses and deal with the politics, red tape and 
suspicious
> citizens, and the legacy of widespread corruption and decay. i 
don't
> see MM as any sort of Saviour, but lets be real...what would AP 
look
> like right now without them? about the bandstand...what are the *&^
> facts? why would there have been repair if it was doomed?  i have
> asked this before.
> 
> and werner...i fought with myself for 15 minutes before writing
> this... it is clear the value you provide. the people who locked 
you
> up are ridiculous human beings in my mind. but can you just sit
> yourself in the seat of a developer getting harangued about 
timelines
> from a guy whose own home would draw complaints about aesthetics 
and
> finished quality? and wasn't the community response a testament to 
an
> undeniable beauty of this place? 
> 
> too much already..but...it seems clear to me that the success of a
> community doesn't lie in the fulfilling of pet agendas of an
> individual or small group. asbury is not going to live or die 
based on
> shipping containers, a bandshell or if the water park is open this
> summer or next. each of us are going to have disappointments to our
> own ideals, but its not about us as individuals.
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: OMG - WTF - Again !

[dsher4]

Werner,

I agree with most of what you said and i think you make some very 
good points.  I can understand how it would be terribly frustrating 
to care passionately about something and see it going awry.  I can 
also understand why its annoying to put time and energy into 
something only to be questioned by others who put in far less.  I 
for one don't know an inordinate amount about redevelopment but i 
try to be openminded and use common sense.  I bought in town because 
i think the town has a lot of potential and i like its eclectic 
nature.  I could have bought in other beach towns if i only wanted 
to see my property value go up without regard for any other 
factors.  I bought here because i like the vibe and funk factor and 
i voice my opinion because i want to see the place get 
better.  "Thats all i have to say about that" (Forrest Gump)


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "wernerapnj" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dsher4"  wrote:
> >
> > No, obviously everyone is entitled to their opinion.  And in 
some 
> > cases the suggestions are good.  I'm just pointing out that i 
have 
> > noticed a trend on this board.  Generally, the people who have 
put a 
> > lot of time and money into their homes in the town are 
cautiously 
> > optimistic while those who don't, do the most complaining.  I 
think 
> > the group that has invested time and money realizes that things 
take 
> > time because they have experience with that in their own places. 
> > 
> ==
> 
> I've noticed a trend also...
> 
> People who have put a lot of time and money into their homes are
> generally newcomers with little knowledge about the details of
> redevelopment. They generally are very proud of their ability to
> spend money and make a 'show' of it. Or have fun around town.
> 
> They can afford to sit back and wait, taking little active 
participation
> in the civic process of questioning City policies and are happy as 
long
> as their property value increases. An attitude of -  ' If you have 
been here
> longer then me, you are part of the problem, step aside I'll fix 
things' -
> is generally displayed.
> 
> On the other hand, people who have been here for a decade or more
> have weathered the economic hardships to the point of losing 
property
> and savings. They have seen bad decisions by government time after 
time
> and are willing to be active in civics because they don't want the 
same
> mistakes made again.
> 
> They are generally just surviving and have a deep affinity and
> understanding of how great Asbury park could be given the proper
> treatment and opportunity. Local, longtime residents are generally
> the best sources of information yet are flagged as complainers.
> 
> Werner
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: OMG - WTF - Again !

[dsher4]

No, obviously everyone is entitled to their opinion.  And in some 
cases the suggestions are good.  I'm just pointing out that i have 
noticed a trend on this board.  Generally, the people who have put a 
lot of time and money into their homes in the town are cautiously 
optimistic while those who don't, do the most complaining.  I think 
the group that has invested time and money realizes that things take 
time because they have experience with that in their own places. 


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Pitzer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> So, because it's other people's money means it's ok to do sneaky 
things like eliminate a 
> historic band shell, and allow ugly, pedestrian architecture.
> I didn't realize life was that simple and without accountability.
> 
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dsher4"  wrote:
> >
> > Hey Jack,
> > 
> > Buy an old house in AP and use your dollars to bring it back to 
its 
> > historical past.  Its easier to have balls with someone else's 
> > money.  
> > 
> > Dan
> > 
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Pitzer"  
wrote:
> > >
> > > The city council, but it feels like they are under the MM 
spell.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "sandpiper15" 
 
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Pitzer"  
> > wrote:
> > > > > MM is getting away with it because nobody is putting 
pressure 
> > on them 
> > > > to explain 
> > > > > what happened.
> > > > 
> > > > That seems to be the common thread in many different 
> > frustrations and 
> > > > controversies. So whose responsibility is it to call them 
out? 
> > And 
> > > > whose responsibility is it to call THOSE people out for not 
> > calling MM 
> > > > out?
> > > >
> > >
> >
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: OMG - WTF - Again !

[dsher4]

Hey Jack,

Buy an old house in AP and use your dollars to bring it back to its 
historical past.  Its easier to have balls with someone else's 
money.  

Dan

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Pitzer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> The city council, but it feels like they are under the MM spell.
> 
> 
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "sandpiper15"  
wrote:
> >
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Pitzer"  
wrote:
> > > MM is getting away with it because nobody is putting pressure 
on them 
> > to explain 
> > > what happened.
> > 
> > That seems to be the common thread in many different 
frustrations and 
> > controversies. So whose responsibility is it to call them out? 
And 
> > whose responsibility is it to call THOSE people out for not 
calling MM 
> > out?
> >
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: On Asbury....

[dsher4]

Werner,

Sometimes we disagree, but your last 2 posts were terrific and spot 
on.  They were focused on your knowledge and history rather than 
telling someone they were stupid or ignorant.  Keep up the 
informational and well thought out posts and we will all be better 
for it.

Dan S.  


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "wernerapnj" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "sandpiper15"  
wrote:
> >
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Tracy  wrote:
> > >
> > > My view as an outsider, a first-time visitor this past summer, 
with no
> > > previous knowledge of AP or its past/present (I usually go to 
South
> > > Jersey beaches):
> > >
> > > You needed something to fill in the blank spaces
> > > between buildings
> > 
> > Well, you have to appreciate why those spaces were there in the 
first
> > place. I may be completely off here, and Werner can fill in the
> > engineering history if I am, but I've always been of the 
understanding
> > that those spaces between the pavilions were very specifically 
designed
> > to remain open and analogous to the flared ends of the east west
> > streets. This was to facilitate both ocean views and air flow 
(in the
> > days before air conditioning) for the many hotels that would 
stretch
> > back a few blocks from the beach along each street
> >
>  > g> . Even in the post-hotel age, both longtime residents and new 
condo
> > dwellers might appreciate having something to look at from their 
front
> > porches other than the back of a used Sea-Land box. This would 
be a
> > marketing point for realtors and thus a very real concern if 
it's lost
> > for good.
> > 
> =
> 
> Very astute observations.
> 
> The oldest and most significant historic element of Asbury Park is 
the
> City plan. The design and layout of the streets and public spaces 
form
> the framework, the defining character and feel, of the City.
> 
> The 'green spaces' were actually physical extensions of the Avenues
> under City (public) control just as the streets are.
> 
> The street grid and City design was duly recognized in the Historic
> Preservation Element of the City Master Plan. It is also 
recognized in
> the current Waterfront Redevelopment Plan.
> 
> In spite of that, several streets have been closed for development,
> blocking view corridors and adversely affecting traffic 
circulation.
> In addition, development of the 'green spaces' with structures and
> visual impediments is also adversely affecting the character of 
the City.
> 
> Open spaces, view corridors, parks, street arrangements, etc, all
> contribute to how a developed area is interpreted. Most often the
> effect is subtle and not even noticed by the occupants of the 
space.
> That leads to the significance of various design elements often 
being
> dismissed as not important.
> 
> That lack of awareness and absence of policy to preserve character
> defining features is degrading the quality of Asbury Park and its
> beautiful historic design.
> 
> Werner
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: On Asbury....

[dsher4]

What a terrific post.  From someone who has some "skin in the 
game".  Bravo for having some perspective.



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "jandlinap" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> Debbie 
> 
> I agree with what is happening in the world.. wouldnt it be 
great 
> to comment on all the great things that are happening in town... 
we 
> had 400 people on a zombie walk.. might not be "mainstream" but it 
> was a huge huge success... we have new stores opening on Cookman 
> Ave... kathy kelly from Paranoramal Books is working tirelessly 
and 
> with out 1 thank you.. to make a huge holloween celebration in 
> town...you have shelter home.. with great gifts...accessories for 
the 
> home.. they are always open..well lit and a great place to shop... 
I 
> sponsered the NJ gay mens chorus on saturdaythey had a huge 
group 
> in front of my restaurant(plan b) MM is not here to save 
downtown... 
> they are here to help support the work of those of us who have 
bought 
> homes in town ( i live on park ave)... built businesses... and as 
> residents of town.. we need to support everything that we can.. 
show 
> up at the free events... and if we have a cpl of bucks.. have a 
> coffee.. have a drink.. have a appetizer.. a meal in downtown... 
and 
> tell our extended networks how great AP is...This economic 
downturn 
> is going to hit people hard... I think more so in AP where the 
> downtown..and the boardwalk do not have enough years of stable 
> economic growth.  this year.. take your xmas, chanukah shopping 
> budget and spend it in Asbury Park... when you have to take 
someone 
> out for their bday..anniversary.. that special night.. do it in 
AP... 
> I know that i try to do everything I can in town...I want my 
business 
> to succeed and I want to protect my investment in my homeso 
lets 
> all work together on rebuilding this great place...stop pointing 
> fingers and who does what wrong and whos responsible...and do what 
is 
> for the good of this city.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Debbie DeLisa  
> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > I think it is very sad that this group has focused all of their 
> time and energy on politics and judgemental comments on Madison 
> Marquette and the City Council.  At this time in our lives where 
we 
> are facing an extreme financial crisis we should be trying to 
support 
> each other and surround this board with positive thoughts. On 
Monday 
> the Asbury Park Press ran a 2 page article on the Doggy Yappy Hour 
at 
> The Wonder Bar.  Not one person from this group mentioned it or 
took 
> the time to comment on it.  This is what brings our community 
> together---Positive events we can share with others from our 
> neighborhood and out of town.  It is not about drinking---I don't 
> drink--it is about comraderie and being able to share quality time 
> with a pet who shows unconditional love.  The most important 
result 
> of this article was before noon on Monday we had 7 calls for 
> adoptions from as far away as Pennsylvania.  The look in these 
little 
> one's eyes when they are bundled up and taken to a nice warm home 
is 
> all I need to make me feel that THIS is what life is all about!  
> > 
> > 
> > To: AsburyPark@: gabrielleobre@: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 04:59:12 
> +Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: On Asbury
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > good questions. who DOES run ap? part of me doesn't care. part 
of 
> me does.but i DO care about who is bad mouthing CH. Sharon you go 
in 
> there andtell me you think its 'sorry'. there is nothing sorry 
about 
> the place. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, 'sharon_b283' 
>  wrote:>> Which raises the point, one MO time; Who 
runs 
> Asbury Park? I know> that the Council has their regularly 
scheduled 
> meetings, 1st and 3rd> Wednesdays, they do great parades, sponsor 
> great events, are great> people individually, but what was signed 
> away or taken over with or> without their permission? Did MM buy 
the 
> boardwalk and beach, too?> > Every time I read here that 
Convention 
> Hall looks 'sorry' inside it's> doors, I think, 'Where are the 
City 
> Officials' and 'When is anyone> going to complain about it, where 
it 
> matters'? Could someone tell me> where to complain, officially?> 
> ---
>  In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, 'wernerapnj'  wrote:> 
>> 
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, 'Gabrielle Obre'> > 
>  wrote:> > >> > > i never got the problem with the 
> containers...it was a cheap and> > > creative way to quickly put 
up 
> income generating space and gavepeople> > > an opportunity to have 
a 
> small biz. you need to have cash coming in> > > no? i doubt it 
> stopped anyone from coming here. whoever complains> > > about them 
> needs to get over their sad ass selves. and i hopeyou are> > > all 
as 
> good looking as you want everything else to be. i hopethey are> > 
> 
> here next summer.> > 
> 
=
=
> > > > >

[AsburyPark] Re: APPress Reports 5 Arrested Reputed Gang Members

[dsher4]

I'm  not a racist by any stretch.  Is it possible the pictures were 
of black faces because those were the people arrested?  sometimes 
what you see is actually what you see. 


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "radio881gal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Sharon -
> I'm glad somebody read that report.
> I'm happy for Mark Kinmon and the others, but 17, at least, gang 
> affiliated thugs in the local area doesn't make me feel warm and 
> fuzzy. And it's important to know that it wasn't just 5 reputed to 
be 
> gang members. I don't know what the difference is between a member 
> and an associate, but I bet the distinction wouldn't mean much to 
> someone thinking of buying here.
> I'm glad Milgram came to show support and I think Valentin is 
doing a 
> much better job than his predecessor.
> Get your point about the black faces. That's why so many people 
don't 
> realize they harbor racist notions. The subliminal messages are 
> everywhere. Racism is the norm. Let's get a look at some of the 
> buyers. Aren't they equally as guilty?
> Maybe I'll list those names when I get a minute to type them in.
> Thanks again for checking the report, Shar,
> Maureen
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "sharon_b283"  
> wrote:
> >
> > Maureen,
> > I got confused also, when viewing the pictures, reading the 
article,
> > then assessing:  What's wrong with this report?  First of all, 
the
> > article tied gang activity in with drug running or so confusing, 
> that
> > I coudn't surmise what they were trying to get across to me, the
> > reader!  I only saw about 15 photos, a mixing up of what was 
what 
> and
> > thinking that if I dodn't know better, it's the kind of 
propaganda
> > that gets law athourities promoted!  Do a roundup, calla press
> > conference, call it gangs/drugs/criminal/, show only the Black 
faces
> > which appeal to your right winged "law and order" types, still 
> doesn't
> > address the real issue, how drugs "make it" into urban 
communities.
> > 
> > These "street" agents will be replaced with others and still 
doesn't
> > address REAL issues!  All this does is paint a racial sterotype 
to
> > drugs, drug running, gangs, but still doesn't address the "root" 
> issue
> > of the problem, itself!  I didn't buy it.
> > 
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "radio881gal"  
> wrote:
> > >
> > > For those of you who have read my report on the major drug 
bust 
> > > announced yesterday by State Attorney General Anne Milgram and 
> County 
> > > Prosecutor Luis Valentin, on AsburyRadio.com, you may be 
confused 
> > > about the number arrested with gang affiliations versus the 
> number 
> > > of "reputed gang members" as reported on the Asbury Park Press 
> web 
> > > site today.
> > > 
> > > It took me three calls to the prosecutor's office today, but I 
> got an 
> > > answer - and I listened to the Mp3s again. First the Mp3s:
> > > Attorney General Milgram, who spoke first, said "Twenty-two of 
> the 
> > > individuals arrested today have gang affiliations." Prosecutor 
> > > Valentin, referred to "approximately 20 gang members and a 
> > > significant number of fugitives", among the 50 arrested. 
> > > As for checking with the source, the Prosecutor's Office:
> > > We've been told to rely on the press release, which identifies 
> five 
> > > of those arrested as "members" of mainly the Bloods street 
gang, 
> and 
> > > an additional 12 individually identified as "an associate" of 
a 
> gang
> > > (s). The source we spoke with referred us to the internet for 
the 
> > > distinction between the two. 
> > > 
> > > For now, we are satisfied to say that there were a total of 17 
> > > individuals, among the 50 arrested, with street gang 
> affiliations. Of 
> > > course that would imply that both the attorney general and the 
> county 
> > > prosecutor misspoke.
> > > This is vitally important to our community. Thanks for reading 
my 
> > > report.
> > > Maureen
> > >
> >
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: Consequences from Wall Street to Asbury Park

[dsher4]

Jack,

Great comment on the labels of republican, democrat etc... I agree 
wholeheartedly.  I have been saying for years that it is ridiculous 
that when you vote you basically pick one slate for 15-20 different 
issues.  Why is it impossible to be fiscally conservative but also 
pro-choice (just an example).  Because its harder to raise money if 
it isn't for a "party".  Would be much better if people thought 
about each individual issue seperately and voted with their heads 
and not their hearts.

Dan S.  

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Pitzer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I have to agree with Gabrielle.
> The other day, I saw an absurd "iReport" article on the CNN 
website.
> It was about a large scale online protest because Facebook changed 
their layout.
> It featured a geeky kid interviewing an even more geeky kid, who 
was organizing a 
> Facebook page to protest Facebook.
> The article contained page after page of comments, many for kids 
who defended the 
> geeks, and lamented that it's refreshing to talk about this 
instead of wars, the economy, 
> the election etc.
> Those who said that the defenders should get a life were attacked 
by saying that the 
> original geek that started this crap was great, and that Facebook 
has helped their lives immensely.
> And that's our future. I wish us luck.
> Personally, I think there are way too many of us who think less 
with our heads and are just 
> plain lazy by being blindly loyal members to groups with labels 
like "democrat, republican, 
> liberal and conservative"
> It's about time we stop limiting ourselves and stop letting the 
labels rule us.
> Finally, it's absurd that we actually think that a credit based 
society is a good thing.
> China is kicking our ass. Most of us don't know that in China, 
virtually the whole country 
> pays for every single thing with cash. When they go to buy a car, 
they show up with cash.
> Visa and Mastercard are failing in their attempt to enter the 
Chinese market. We could use 
> some of that logic here, and we'd all benefit if we weren't so 
obsessed with "stuff" and 
> started living within our means.
> 
> 
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright" 
 wrote:
> >
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Gabrielle Obre" 
> >  wrote:
> >  
> > > 
> > > This is a hoot, I think I just got called "four eyes" on the
> > > playground. i don't know when intellectual curiosity became 
> > >something
> > > to make fun of (outside a grammar school p-ground) but call me 
four
> > > eyes all you want.  and since i grew up here i must be "small 
town
> > > folk" as well.  
> > 
> > It wasn't elitism I was accusing you of - it was hypocrisy.  
> > 
> > You posted a lament about most of America not being intellectual 
(I 
> > don't have to call you elitist - you're doing it to yourself).
> > 
> > In your post lamenting that others don't read and think about 
issues 
> > of the day as well as you, you spoke of the bank bailout, and 
got the 
> > most basic provision of it dead wrong.
> > 
> > So in a post where you ridicule others for not reading and 
thinking, 
> > you proved you've not read or thought about the very topic you 
were 
> > brought up to show up the rest of us.
> > 
> > That's hypocritical.
> > 
> > 
> > > i don't know if its asset or debt.  
> > 
> > And for not knowing, shall I ridicule you?  Accuse you of being 
an 
> > anti-intellectual?  Claim a superiority over you?
> > 
> > No.  None of that's true.  If I claimed I was smarter than you, 
or 
> > that you were just plain anti-intellectual, I'd be the hypocrite.
> > 
> > > so i picked up Emerson's "Nature" today (is it elitist to read 
great
> > > American thinkers?) 
> > 
> > There you go again.  Do you assert the rest of us here don't 
read?
> > 
> > 
> > >Reign in
> > > your reactionary republican Tommy, 
> > 
> > Have you been reading Time Magazine?  According to them as a 
> > Republican I have on a genetic level a bigger startle reflex and 
have 
> > a stronger response to threats.
> > 
> > http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1842523,00.html
> > 
> > 
> > > So anyone want to think about Asbury's Budget?
> > 
> > No.  Of all the things in the world I have to think about, 
Asbury's 
> > budget isn't going to make it in the top 1000 for me.
> > 
> > Plus, it's no mystery.  Police, fire and public works make up 
almost 
> > the entirety of your discretionary spedning, and everyone wants 
them 
> > increased, not cut.
> > 
> > Almost all of the rest of the budget is mandatory spending the 
City 
> > has no control of.
> > 
> > What's to discuss?
> >
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROT

[AsburyPark] Tax Ratables

[dsher4]

I have made this point on this board a few times and I'm tired of 
repeating but here we go again.  

The tax deficit is millions and a few apt buildings will not come 
close in closing that gap relative to the "blight" that they 
represent for people looking to visit this town.  

Secondly, the meters that were put in (that generated approx 50k as 
i read in the first month - and i initially argued against them) 
will dwarf on an annual basis what the ratables of a few slum 
buildings generate.  Those meters have people parking in front of 
them because they are "starting" to feel safe coming here.  We don't 
want to lose that momentum by continuing to harbor people who are 
involved in illegal activity and also pose a possible threat to 
townspeople and visitors alike.  Fixing up a dump is a band aid, not 
the best use of space and i don't want to have to worry about my 
kids riding their bicycles past drug addicts and pushers.  

The above argument does not include all the other revenue that comes 
to the town as people feel safe.  Downtown cookman, oyster fest, 
increasing beach patrons and the taxes paid by each and every new 
store opening up etc... 

You want to take care of these places, start enforcing code on the 
slum lords who will sell them when that happens and knock down the 
ones in the redevelopment zone.  They provide nothing, stop kidding 
yourselves. Their economic tax benefit is dwarfed by what they 
portray and signify.   

Lastly, every single person who has any interest in this town should 
thank their lucky stars that Madison Marquette is here.  We are in 
one of the worst credit crunches in the history of this country when 
almost no commercial developer has access to new credit (Let's not 
debate who's fault it is on this board, for the sake of this post 
lets agree it a reality).  MM from what i know has a stable balance 
sheet and has already spent many millions.  I hope they do well 
because if they pull out, this town will have a serious hiccup with 
not many new developers "lining up" as you would expect (at least 
for a while).  

I pay taxes in this town and would gladly see them raised by a few 
hundred dollars or more if i could be assured that every drug 
building that is being used for illigal activity was brought to 
task. 

Dan S.  




Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Bike Racks

[dsher4]

Check out these bike racks created by David Byrne of Talking heads.

I think the reclining female would be pretty cool on the boardwalk 

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/19/new-bike-racks-courtesy-
of-david-byrne/index.html?partner=rssuserland&emc=rss




Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Arcade

[dsher4]

Bravo on Oak's post below.  And Arc and Jack, I'm glad you guys have 
opinions, its important to debate.  Debate and disagreement 
generally lead to better solutions.  What i liked about Oak's post 
is it put the real world equation and economics in perspective.  
Maybe Gary hasn't done everything right but they are dealing with a 
complex legacyy and many varying factors, economic viability being 
just one of them.  Let's keep up the debate, but also inject 
economics and real world feasibility into the mix.  



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "oakdorf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dsher4"  wrote:
> >
> 
> > And btw, i like arcade's
> > 
> 
> Ok, boardwalk lesson # 42:
> 
> Arcades are, as one operator once said, a thing of the past 
UNLESS
> 
>  Problems: RENT. Old arcades either had long term leases or they 
> OWNED the place.
> 
> Equipment: COSTS and Longevity. The machines are expensive - 
> therefore you pay alot for a game. The games change very quickly. 
> That's why some machines can be repogrammed or now will have 
multiple 
> games. Towns (think AP still does) require a permit or fee for 
EACH 
> game installed as does the state (I think). 
> 
> Size matters  - skeeball takes up about 30 sq ft per unitabout 
> $2500 used. Figure 10 of them = 25k..used and 300 sq ft plus room 
to 
> play...dance rev games around $7500 to $10k, plus room. So let's 
> assume you need at least 5,000 sq ft and if they charge you (a 
guess) 
> $40 per sq ft... that's $200,000 per year in rent or $17,000 per 
> month. PLUS, you have to have employess, insurance, pay taxes, pay 
> your electric billand make a profit so you get something back 
for 
> the risk. That $17k /month can be shrunk to a 5 month period of 
when 
> you need real good weather and PEOPLE. Arcades do their biz AFTER 
the 
> beach - unless you bring in camps like Lange did with the palace 
> during the day.
> 
> An acrade sure would be fun...as long as you're not wiping the 
glass 
> on a rainy day watching those machines blinking and talking to 
each 
> other...That's why Dave and Buster's has a concept - like MM - add 
> liquor. Someone here called it Chucky Cheese for Adults.
> 
> There's a reason why it's not in NJ.
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: Boardwalk is magic tonight

[dsher4]

I don't think he owns style rocket.  I think he is someone who 
realizes that complaining and negativity are easy.  Having the guts 
to actually do something is hard.  Nobody responded to his arcade 
comment.  Why don't all the people who want an arcade approach Gary 
about it and figure out the economics and put their balls on the 
line and open something.  I know people say Gary has been 
standoffish but i would be too if i put my balls on the line and 
took constant criticism from people who are watching and not doing.  

And btw, i like arcade's



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "arcman210" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Mark Mark  wrote:
> >
> > Sorry, I'm not from NY. And the shorts I bought were not $184, 
and 
> I have not seen any shorts in there for $184. I guess you have not 
> personally gone into the store to check. However, I do give you 
> credit for profiling me as a Modern High End NY'er, even though 
you 
> meant it as an insult, I'll take that as a compliment because I am 
> glad the NY'ers are coming to AP. If it wasn't for them, this town 
> would still be the sh!t hole that it was for most of your time 
here. 
> Hicks? You are the one labeling people, not me. It seems like you 
are 
> looking down your nose at anyone who does not want what YOU want. 
I 
> personally find your holier than thou attitude offensive.   I 
> personally hate Point Pleasant. I would prefer Asbury not turn 
into 
> one. If you KNOW what appeals to board walkers why not put YOUR 
money 
> where you mouth is? You criticize the businesses that are taking a 
> chance here, yet you do nothing except bitch and complain because 
YOU 
> wouldn't
> >  have taken THAT chance.  Why don't you open an arcade? You can 
> charge $5 for a game of skeet-ball and $5 video games to cover the 
> rent. I'm sure people will be lining up by the truck load. Then 
you 
> and the rest of your bandwagon jumpers can continue taking credit 
for 
> all the successes "That was my idea, I brought that up 15 yrs ago" 
> and you can also take credit for the failures… "I told you that 
would 
> never work, a clothes store on the boardwalk".  
> >  
> >  At least I support what we have now! Cheers to the businesses 
that 
> are taking a chance in Asbury. Boo to single sighted Asbury 
elitist 
> who think their vision is the only vision.
> >
> 
> Jeez, do you own Style Rocket or something?
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: This weekend's pictures

[dsher4]

Werner i agree wholeheartedly with that post



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "wernerapnj" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "arcman210"  
wrote:
> 
> > That wall is horrible.  I would hope that alot of the blank 
walls that 
> > we see on the buildings will get some kind of signage or 
decorative 
> > archietctural elements.  I feel like those walls are more of a 
base for 
> > something else to stand out.
> > 
> > I'm 50/50 on the architecture and design of the buildings so 
far... the 
> > final outcome is still to be seen, the pavilions still have 
quite a bit 
> > of work to be done until theyre completely finished.  They are 
> > definately better than what was there before (except for 5th ave 
in my 
> > opinion)
> >
> 
=
=
> 
> What we are going to get is graffiti passed off as urban art or 
murals.
> 
> Just what kind of "signage or decorative archietctural elements" 
could
>  cure the bad design of those blank stucco walls. What's needed are
> windows and doors, that's what creates a human scale and feel to
> buildings.
> 
> Doing a windowless wall well architecturally is not easy. They knew
> how to do it in the 1930s, just look at the front of the Paramount
> Theater. But this is 2007 where Fake Classical and Strip Mall 
stucco
> as all the rage. :-(
> 
> Werner
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: Help Need with ReVision's productions of HAIR.

[dsher4]

Jack,

I understand your point and don't disagree with your desire for 
something of wonder and excitement.  However, those other boarkwalks 
have been done or are in point pleasant for example.  I think our 
boardwalk is moving towards a music oriented boardwalk with lots of 
variety for adults.  They aren't gearing it for kids and i think 
that is a purposeful choice.  

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Pitzer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I was thinking more in terms of look then in content.
> I'd like to be proven wrong. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing 
but respect for all the 
> retailers that have opened on our boardwalk.
> I guess the problem for me is that I'm not easily seduced by the 
redevelopment. I will 
> always agree that it looks better, but the direction that the 
content of the redevelopment 
> has taken does little for me. When I see our boardwalk, I remember 
the AP of my 
> childhood, as well as all the boardwalks i've seen throughout my 
life.
> There's none of that wonder and excitement on our boardwalk for 
me. None of the sights, 
> sounds or smells. I just see high priced retail, $68 tee shirts 
and $70 shorts. I don't go to 
> the boardwalk for things like that. And I also think that the 
traffic we are starting to see 
> would be dramatically bigger if tourism was the focus, not retail.
> I respect other peoples joy over where we are at, but I'm sorry, 
it does nothing for me. It's 
> just not what I hoped for, and no matter how hard I try I can't 
even force myself to like it.
> 
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Allan Peterson  
wrote:
> >
> > Jack,
> > It is not a strip mall...yet.  Currently you have mom & pop 
retailers.  Many are residents 
> of Asbury who want to aid in the rebuilding and have taken risks 
to create these specility 
> shops.  With that being said, who else would open up stores on the 
boardwalk/  This is 
> truely the first summer the boradwalk has a direction and it was 
very late in opening.  
> Retail works in a cycles.  You will have the mom & pop stores and 
as they build customers, 
> the retail giants then move in.  Rents go up and the mom & pops 
leave.  You see this 
> happen all over.  If I do recall, MM did mention J Crew as a 
retailer when they were 
> proposing the boardwalk rebuild.  Time will tell.   
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > - Original Message 
> > From: Jack Pitzer 
> > To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 12:12:26 PM
> > Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Help Need with ReVision's productions 
of HAIR.
> > 
> > 
> > I'm sorry that you take issue with my comment, but to me, the 
5th Ave. pavilion 
> currently 
> > looks like a strip mall. Does it look better yes, but I think 
it's been ruined. To me, it 
> looks 
> > throw together, and not faithfully restored according to the 
plan. It doesn't even fit into 
> > the classic look of CH and the Paramount, nor what the Casino 
will look like if that's 
> ever 
> > completed.
> > There are strip malls in this country that have fine dining 
establishments and places like 
> > you've mentioned, but they are still strip malls. They are all 
over the Miami area.
> > I honestly think that people are so weary from decades of 
neglect that the boardwalk 
> > experienced that people have lowered their expectations and are 
willing to accept any 
> > progress without question. 
> > Now we have a bandshell that probably doesn't have a future. How 
is that going to be 
> > resolved? I'm willing to bet that it doesn't get resolved, 
because people are being too 
> > seduced by what they perceive to be progress. Our city has also 
been lulled by the 
> > seduction, and they don't appear to have the balls to step up 
and do anything about it.
> > 
> > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com, "dsher4"  wrote:
> > >
> > > How many strip malls have places like Hot Sand, LaPlaca and 
two 
> > > dining establishments that look out onto a beautiful 
beach/surf. I 
> > > take issue with that comment.
> > > 
> > > I do agree, however, that the bandshell should have a future 
and it 
> > > doesn't seem that way now.
> > > 
> > > Dan S.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com, "Jack Pitzer"  
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Unfortunately I'm at work and I can't turn it up load enough 
to 
> > > hear the response. What 
> > > > does it say? It sounds to me like they aren't answering the 
> > > question W

[AsburyPark] Unique vs. strip mall

[dsher4]

I also wonder why when something unique is planned like having a 
theatre presentation in the carousel building , nobody mentions it as 
non-conformist, anti strip mall type thinking.  Now i know the retort 
could be, BECAUSE IT IS A CAROUSEL DUMMY and should house big wooden 
horses with kids whirling around.  

I'm not sure what all the answers are but i do applaud the attempt by 
MM to think outside the box.  So far i have seen non strip-mall 
tendencies but only time will tell 




Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Re: Help Need with ReVision's productions of HAIR.

[dsher4]

Jack,

I am curious what type of shops should be in the pavillions so they 
aren't a strip mall?  Also, who knows if Gary is telling the truth 
but if you read the article in the tri city news he does not want to 
bring in big retailers because he realizes that is not what the 
boardwalk is about and would not create a UNIQUE destination.  So 
far i think they have done a decent job in the unique department.  
 

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Allan Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Jack,
> It is not a strip mall...yet.  Currently you have mom & pop 
retailers.  Many are residents of Asbury who want to aid in the 
rebuilding and have taken risks to create these specility shops.  
With that being said, who else would open up stores on the 
boardwalk/  This is truely the first summer the boradwalk has a 
direction and it was very late in opening.  Retail works in a 
cycles.  You will have the mom & pop stores and as they build 
customers, the retail giants then move in.  Rents go up and the mom 
& pops leave.  You see this happen all over.  If I do recall, MM did 
mention J Crew as a retailer when they were proposing the boardwalk 
rebuild.  Time will tell.   
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message 
> From: Jack Pitzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 12:12:26 PM
> Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Help Need with ReVision's productions of 
HAIR.
> 
> 
> I'm sorry that you take issue with my comment, but to me, the 5th 
Ave. pavilion currently 
> looks like a strip mall. Does it look better yes, but I think it's 
been ruined. To me, it looks 
> throw together, and not faithfully restored according to the plan. 
It doesn't even fit into 
> the classic look of CH and the Paramount, nor what the Casino will 
look like if that's ever 
> completed.
> There are strip malls in this country that have fine dining 
establishments and places like 
> you've mentioned, but they are still strip malls. They are all 
over the Miami area.
> I honestly think that people are so weary from decades of neglect 
that the boardwalk 
> experienced that people have lowered their expectations and are 
willing to accept any 
> progress without question. 
> Now we have a bandshell that probably doesn't have a future. How 
is that going to be 
> resolved? I'm willing to bet that it doesn't get resolved, because 
people are being too 
> seduced by what they perceive to be progress. Our city has also 
been lulled by the 
> seduction, and they don't appear to have the balls to step up and 
do anything about it.
> 
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com, "dsher4"  wrote:
> >
> > How many strip malls have places like Hot Sand, LaPlaca and two 
> > dining establishments that look out onto a beautiful beach/surf. 
I 
> > take issue with that comment.
> > 
> > I do agree, however, that the bandshell should have a future and 
it 
> > doesn't seem that way now.
> > 
> > Dan S.
> > 
> > 
> > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com, "Jack Pitzer"  
wrote:
> > >
> > > Unfortunately I'm at work and I can't turn it up load enough 
to 
> > hear the response. What 
> > > does it say? It sounds to me like they aren't answering the 
> > question Werner posed.
> > > Meanwhile, while we're all praising MM for the amazing job 
they've 
> > done, that very praise 
> > > is going to overshadow the fact that MM went way past what was 
> > supposed to be done and 
> > > basically destroyed the 5th Ave. pavilion. Now it's a strip 
mall 
> > with expensive dining. No 
> > > bandshell. We might as well kiss the bandshell goodbye, 
because I 
> > really don't see MM 
> > > removing the heating and A/C units. And there is no way on 
earth 
> > that the one next to the 
> > > stage can be concealed or silenced in any way to make 
performances 
> > up there possible.
> > > Once again. our city drops the ball and let's the developers 
do 
> > whatever they want.
> > > 
> > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com, "sandpiper15" 
 
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com, "Jack Pitzer"  
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm wondering why this isn't more of an uproar about the 
> > current
> > > > situation with the
> > > > > bandshell.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Actually, if you click here
> > > > <http://www.asburyra dio.com/audio/ PublicComm

[AsburyPark] Re: Help Need with ReVision's productions of HAIR.

[dsher4]

How many strip malls have places like Hot Sand, LaPlaca and two 
dining establishments that look out onto a beautiful beach/surf.  I 
take issue with that comment.

I do agree, however, that the bandshell should have a future and it 
doesn't seem that way now.

Dan S.


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Pitzer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Unfortunately I'm at work and I can't turn it up load enough to 
hear the response. What 
> does it say? It sounds to me like they aren't answering the 
question Werner posed.
> Meanwhile, while we're all praising MM for the amazing job they've 
done, that very praise 
> is going to overshadow the fact that MM went way past what was 
supposed to be done and 
> basically destroyed the 5th Ave. pavilion. Now it's a strip mall 
with expensive dining. No 
> bandshell. We might as well kiss the bandshell goodbye, because I 
really don't see MM 
> removing the heating and A/C units. And there is no way on earth 
that the one next to the 
> stage can be concealed or silenced in any way to make performances 
up there possible.
> Once again. our city drops the ball and let's the developers do 
whatever they want.
> 
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "sandpiper15"  
wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Pitzer"  
wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm wondering why this isn't more of an uproar about the 
current
> > situation with the
> > > bandshell.
> > 
> > 
> > Actually, if you click here
> >   
and FF
> > to 12:18, I think you'll find the response to Werner's very 
articulate
> > and well-founded question regarding the bandshell to be quite 
uproarious
> > - in a Marxian sort of way. ("That's in every contract. That's 
what they
> > call a sanity clause. - Ha! You can't fool me. There ain't no 
Sanity
> > Claus.")
> >
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Actions speak louder than words

[dsher4]

Obviously we all have opinions about all things Asbury on this board.  
I have noticed a sea-change in the last 6 months as the vibe on the 
board is turning positive albeit gradually.  I think what MM is doing 
has obviously worked and continues to work.  But something is even 
more heartening than that.  

When i read the articles about what Irene and Gary Mottola have done 
for the animals (kittens) on the boardwalk it tells me a lot.  These 
people have character and compassion and really care about more than 
just money.  Perhaps i am a pollyanna but i also like to look at what 
people do rather than say.  For the short time i have watched what 
Gary and team have done i have been impressed.  But doing what they 
are doing for these animals tells me more about the people than how 
much money they spend on refurbishing the boarkwalk and how fast they 
do it.  These are good people and i'm glad they are in knee-deep in 
whatever future we are going to see in Asbury 

Dan S.




Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[AsburyPark] Bradley Park

[dsher4]

I really hope that money that MM has earmarked for Bradley Park gets 
spent this spring.  If i remember correctly they were going to give it 
to the town but i'd rather they do the landscaping themselves so the 
money doesn't get pissed away.  I think planting beautiful gardens in 
that park would look great and that is the type of thing that people 
coming into town would also notice, a place that cares about itself 
and how it looks.  It would also mean that they don't drive trucks and 
have carnivals all over the grass.  I'd rather see those events held 
elsewhere.  



 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Re: opportunity to start a new summer tradition in ap?

[dsher4]

Think that is a terrific idea and could finally utilize the 
bandshell again as one of the venues with music drifting down to the 
boardwalk from above.  


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "arcman210" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> there have been numerous suggestions in the past to get some sort 
of 
> music fesitval or annual summer concert back to asbury park like 
the 
> wnew ones from the past.  there is a new radio station in new york 
> city, 101.9 wrxp, a rock station that is going to emphasise on 
local 
> new york city area artists as well as bridge a gap of rock from 
classic 
> to current.
> 
> anyone else see an opportunity here to start something?
> 
> something similar to the red bank jazz and blues festival (which 
> ironically was sponsored every year by the smooth jazz station 
which is 
> now the frequency of the new rock station)
> 
> it would get plenty of on-air promotion in the entire new york 
> metropolitan area and could be something that could happen 
annually or 
> bi-annually.
> 
> madison marquette should jump on the opportunity
>




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Re: Boardwalk Renovations

[dsher4]

Does anyone know why the bungalows are not on the demolition list?




--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Pitzer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I offered the demo crew $50 to take down the bungalows as well.
> There were no takers...
> 
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "oakdorf"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Pitzer"  
wrote:
> > >
> > > Say, did they take down the Flamingo sign as well?
> > 
> > Still there.
> >
>




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Re: Emergency Management...

[dsher4]

Mario,

It is exactly what you said.  After Katrina the insurance companies 
are taking another look at where they have higher risk and 
repricing.  I was told i would have to put storm shutters on my 
house (metal) if i wanted to keep my policy.  Effectively they 
cancelled me so i had to switch carriers for a significantly higher 
premium.  Depending on where you live relative to the ocean it makes 
sense to go with an insurer who knows the area and writes many 
policies in the area because they know the locale as opposed to just 
using mileage factors and assuming you are a flood risk.  

Dan

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Pitzer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Thanks Mario! I'll contact them.
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, MarioAPNJ@ wrote:
> >
> >  
> > Try  The Colts Neck Holmdel Insurance Agency
> > Vincent James Scanelli, Agency Owner 
> > 37 County Road 537 West 
> > Colts  Neck, NJ 07722 
> > Phone: 732-431-4033 Fax: 732-431-0180 
> >  
> > Patricia (Pat) Kleinman   [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > (mailto:pkleiman@)in  that office is very efficient and 
pleasant to deal with.
> > She told me they could handle renter's insurance
> >  
> >  
> >  [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:hinge98@)   writes:
> >  
> > I'm  trying to get renters insurance for my apt. and I'm having 
a very hard 
> > time  finding 
> > anybody willing to insure me. I've had zero luck with  it.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > **The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at 
the Grammy 
> > Awards. Go to AOL Music.  
> > (http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp0030002565)
> >
>




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Re:Asbury Glory Days

[dsher4]

That is a very good point you make about the public swim club and no 
i was not aware.  I wonder how they plan to keep it from becoming 
too overcrowded.  

I guess i take issue with the fact that it seems almost criminal on 
this board that these guys want to make money.  I take 100% offense 
to how Partners has handled this whole redevelopment and squandered 
some of Asbury's best assets.  However, we should all want MM to 
make a fortune.  Has anyone really thought about what costs are 
involved, how much they have already spent and plan on spending?  
Why should they not want to make a very nice return on what is an 
investment? I hope they make great money, continue to pour money 
into the boardwalk and surrounding areas and help to bring this area 
back.  I know we shouldn't just bend over for an outside developer 
but last i looked the country was in a negative housing situation 
and these guys are stepping up with capital when most people are 
afraid to do anything.  Counts for something no?


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Are you aware that the pool area you're referring to is required 
by law, by  
> our own ordinance, to be a public swim club? 
>  There are certain realities involved in providing  for the 
needs of all 
> age groups - as in 'the public' - which have to  be met. My 
remarks were not 
> based on any aversion to luxury. I'd love  to lounge around a nice 
spot like 
> that. But the public pool, public club,  is a hoop the developers 
must jump 
> through in order to gain the right to build  the private, one 
would hope 
> lucrative, swim club up the boardwalk to the  north.
>  
> At the planning board meeting the principals mis-spoke several 
times,  
> calling the plan a "private" club. The design can be easily seen 
as a private  
> looking club, inadequate for serving a large public, especially 
since it  is for 
> the purpose of satisfying this obstacle and getting on with the  
private club 
> that they hope will seal the deal for the sale of the remaining  
condos -- 
> adjacent to the site of the future private beach club.
> This makes sense if you think of it from the perspective of 
Asbury  Partners' 
> interests in this retail LLC, which it has established with  
Madison 
> Marquette. The Partners can't get their percentage (I've heard 5% 
down  from 7%) of 
> the sales of the condos or the per unit pay back on their  
infrastructure outlay 
> - about $20k a unit -- which are guaranteed   through their 
contracts with 
> the developers, until those condos close.  Also, the Partners 
retain the retail 
> interests in the condo developments. I  don't know what deal they 
made with MM 
> for a portion of the retail business on  the boardwalk. But this 
is also an 
> incentive for the Partners to encourage MM's  plans for the 
pavilions.  So 
> there's considerably more pressure to  move ahead with the 
pavilions than meets 
> the eye. It's not just the coming beach  season.
> Maureen
> 
> Maureen Nevin
> Asbury Radio -"The Radio Voice of Asbury  Park" -Silenced by the 
FCC, but 
> why??
> 88.1FM - "6" Years on the Air!!   Would've been 7 this July...
> Asbury's Own Live Talk Show_mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/post?
postID=rHJIZqKLU40eDTc2KMHNHZwPoANfvykUf-QXIwGa01YupXx_FS
> gz9T8CYowEoqrp7AvGNPp3ZyP4oWOTuAg) 
> 601  Bangs Avenue  - Forced from here by FCC...
> Listen 8 - 10 PM Thursdays on  88.1FM or Ooops, see below...
> Listen Live or Later on the Web _http://www.asburyradio.com/_ 
> (http://www.asburyradio.com/) 
> Call the show 732-775-0821 oops, not since  the FCC visited this 
litte 
> 100watt station - four times!!
> Call  me 732-774-0779 fax 502-0463  Still can call this number...
> Speak up - It's  America!!
> 
> 
> 
> **The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the 
Grammy 
> Awards. Go to AOL Music.  
> (http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp0030002565)
>




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Glory Days

[dsher4]

I understand your point and don't disagree entirely.  However, what 
i am saying is that it is far simpler and a better use of money to 
knock the thing down and create a little hipster hotel from 
scratch.  Sometimes buildings were not cleverly designed in the 
first place.  Save the good stuff and bulldoze all the stuff that 
should have never been here in the first place.  You think Bradley 
had the flamingo in mind when he had massive hotels along the 
boardwalk?



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Pitzer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I think you missed my point about the Flamingo Hotel.
> I never said it was an architectural gem. My point about it was 
that it was a viable business 
> that could've been redeveloped into something cool.
> If you go to Wildwood, you'll see a bunch of hotels built around 
the same time that have 
> been restored into cool little hipster hotels.
> In PA, there's a little motel owned by Kate Pierson of the B-52's. 
It's called the Lazy 
> Meadow Motel. Before she took it over, it was butt ugly, just like 
the Flamingo. Then, they 
> added some design elements, and made the rooms cool and unique.
> Personally, I think the biggest challenge AP faces is winning back 
public opinion. We won't 
> have many glory days moving forward if people still perceive AP to 
be a "shithole".
> Unfortunately for many people that's the case. I heard it a few 
times this weekend while 
> playing a show with my band in Clifton. It sorta felt like the pot 
calling the kettle black 
> having people in Clifton ask me why I want to live in 
that "shithole" Asbury Park. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dsher4"  wrote:
> >
> > I got thinking over the weekend that one of the things that made 
> > Asbury so special (among many things) was that it was very 
forward 
> > thinking for its time.  The flared streets, the air conditioning 
in 
> > convention hall, a respite from the dirty cities up north.  
> > 
> > I too want to see Asbury's treasures restored and i think that 
is 
> > what we are getting in the Casino, Paramount, convention hall on 
the 
> > boardwalk.  However i also realize that times change and 
attitudes 
> > on recreation change.  It would be quaint to have every building 
> > have been restored in town but is it feasible to fill multiple 
> > theatres each night in today's day and age?  Or (sorry hinge) 
does 
> > anyone really want to see the Flamingo stay?  That place is a 
> > shithole with zero architectural significance.  
> > 
> > I am hoping that Madison Marquette can blend the two.  Take 
> > advantage of the historic buildings and charms that Asbury has 
but 
> > blend it with something unique and new.  I for one think it 
would be 
> > cool to lounge around a "W hotel style" pool during the day with 
all 
> > the amenities and then be able to head home, shower, get a bite 
to 
> > eat at one of Asbury's eclectic dining spots and then see a show 
in 
> > the paramount. Those things don't have to be mutually 
exclusive.  
> > Another day you spend time at the beach and then see a good band 
at 
> > one of the local venues.  I guess my point is that Asbury can be 
> > unique and forward thinking again by blending the best of the 
old 
> > world with some of the new world.  Why does it have to be so 
black 
> > and white?   Let's be openminded, we are finally seeing some 
> > progress.
> >
>




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Asbury Glory Days

[dsher4]

I got thinking over the weekend that one of the things that made 
Asbury so special (among many things) was that it was very forward 
thinking for its time.  The flared streets, the air conditioning in 
convention hall, a respite from the dirty cities up north.  

I too want to see Asbury's treasures restored and i think that is 
what we are getting in the Casino, Paramount, convention hall on the 
boardwalk.  However i also realize that times change and attitudes 
on recreation change.  It would be quaint to have every building 
have been restored in town but is it feasible to fill multiple 
theatres each night in today's day and age?  Or (sorry hinge) does 
anyone really want to see the Flamingo stay?  That place is a 
shithole with zero architectural significance.  

I am hoping that Madison Marquette can blend the two.  Take 
advantage of the historic buildings and charms that Asbury has but 
blend it with something unique and new.  I for one think it would be 
cool to lounge around a "W hotel style" pool during the day with all 
the amenities and then be able to head home, shower, get a bite to 
eat at one of Asbury's eclectic dining spots and then see a show in 
the paramount. Those things don't have to be mutually exclusive.  
Another day you spend time at the beach and then see a good band at 
one of the local venues.  I guess my point is that Asbury can be 
unique and forward thinking again by blending the best of the old 
world with some of the new world.  Why does it have to be so black 
and white?   Let's be openminded, we are finally seeing some 
progress.  





 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Re: Flamingo Hotel closed

[dsher4]

I wonder if anyone in the city could investigate how much tax is being 
generated by the ratables in the redevelopment zone.  To determine how 
much of an impact closing these places has in actual dollars or as a % 
of the overall city tax base.  

I would also say that anywhere drug activity is happening it always 
makes sense to close those places.  The tax impact pales in comparison 
to the negative of drugs.  I for one would be ok if my taxes went up 
$100 for the year to get rid of these places.  




--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "oakdorf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> > We will lose another ratable (vacant lot vs building) in the 
interim.
> > 
> > Werner
> >
> 




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Re: 18 inch pool

[dsher4]

Thank you for the heads up.  My mistake on the kiddie concept.  



> Here is a pic and more info... It will ahve a bar and people can 
lie 
> around and have parties
> 
> http://thecoaster.net/wordpress/?p=1996
> 
> 
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "fancypaaantz"  
> wrote:
> >
> > Again, it is kiddie pool depth, but it is not for kids or 
> families. 
> > It is for glamour. Families is not the demographic they are 
going 
> > for with this project... Is how I read it
> > 
> > 
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright" 
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dsher4"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I think a shallow pool is a good idea.  It is for "KIDS" to 
> > > >encourage 
> > > > families to come back to the area like they last did in the 
> > > >1960's.  
> > > 
> > > Like the 60's?  In the 60's Asbury Park had the world's 
largest 
> > salt 
> > > water pool, including a high dive area that was 15 or 18 feet 
> > deep.  
> > > I don't think an 18 incher will allow us to claim that we 
> > are "like 
> > > the 60's.
> > > 
> > > We also had the kiddie pool.  I don't see the point in 
building 
> > the 
> > > kiddie pool and not the big one.
> > > 
> > > Kids over 4 will get tired of it in about 10 minutes.  It will 
> be 
> > a 
> > > onle time attraction, not a pool club to join.
> > > 
> > > Just my opinion.  Maybe I'll be proved wrong.  Madison 
Marquette 
> > has 
> > > the resume for making retail work - not me.
> > >
> >
>




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] 18 inch pool

[dsher4]

I think a shallow pool is a good idea.  It is for "KIDS" to encourage 
families to come back to the area like they last did in the 1960's.  
Perhaps by chance they might even spend some "MONEY" and enjoy it so 
much they buy a "HOUSE" here or tell friends.  We adults all have a 
pool and it is called the ocean.  Do you really want to float around 
in a big pool with other adults a few inches from you?  That rings of 
crowded municipal pool to me.   

MM is trying to blend aesthetics, with function, with the hope of a 
return on investment in an area that they genuinely seem to care about 
(at least Mottola does).  

Think broader about what the long term goals are and not so much about 
complaining how everything that doesn't suit one person's particular 
needs or desires Sucks.  



 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park preservationists trying to form commission

[dsher4]

Why not demolotion the Metropolitan and build something identical but 
new in its likeness.  A Metropolitan style hotel with up to date 
ammenities might do very well.  My guess is the Charms is more worth 
saving structurally.

I know that isn't ideal to the preservationists but it is a happy 
medium.  It also takes into account that this stuff doesn't take place 
in a vacuum, it requires money.  

NOticeably absent from any of these discussions on saving buildings is 
an accurate assessment of the cost to restore and what the payback 
would be.  I know payback isn't important for some but it matters for 
anyone who is going to put one nickel into a project.  

>




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Reason for Press conference

[dsher4]

I'm sure this is not an original thought but here goes anyway:

Im guessing the reason for the press conference was two-fold

1. MM and Gary are very excited about everything they laid out and 
they have the capital and expertise to make it happen.  Maybe they 
do read this board and wanted to make sure that people inside and 
outside the community realize Asbury has self sustaining momentum.  
Momentum is important in real estate, particularly in light of the 
current backdrop.  

2.  They realize that the only way to break a logjam (assuming one 
actually exists) between city, partners, MM, Cherokee partners 
etc... is to publically announce something of this magnitude such 
that everyone realizes a plan is in place and actionable if only 
everyone could agree on moving asbury forward as the goal and not 
maximizing each and every parties revenue and profit potential.  If 
this goes forward, all of those parties will be better off for 
sure.  Everyone has to give a little so they have a smaller part of 
something big and successful instead of trying to be 100% of 
something disjointed and unsuccessful

I have no basis of fact for point number 2 but just thinking out 
loud.



 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Re: Political Suicide

[dsher4]

I am not a lawyer so i don't know all the legal particulars
But they just raised 480 million 9 months ago
They also put up their own timelines.
These guys are not cupcakes, look at their other projects and look 
at the size of the organization 
I do agree that everything needs to be done properly and legally.

However, lets not do this approval on municipal time but lets do it 
on private enterprise time.  


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I hope you aren't asking the Council to act impetuously.
> 
> We've seen grand plans before.
> 
> I go back to Dan Sciannemeo's first post about this as to making 
> sure the plan is backed by money and deadlines.
> 
> Measure twice, cut once as the carpenters like to say.
> 
> So long as those two issues are in order (along with the strongest 
> default provision known to lawyers), after that you get the hell 
out 
> of AP/MM's way and let it roll.
> 
> 
> 
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dsher4"  wrote:
> >
> > Political Suicide for any of the town board members who fight 
this 
> or 
> > hold it up from progressing by one day.  When are elections 
again?
> >
>




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Political Suicide

[dsher4]

Political Suicide for any of the town board members who fight this or 
hold it up from progressing by one day.  When are elections again?



 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Re: Menna Charges: The Person in that Colts Neck Mansion is actually a slum lord...

[dsher4]

One of the single most important, influential things the city of 
asbury could do going forward, is to hold landlords accountable.  You 
want to get rid of the undesirables in this town?  one part of the 
solution is to hold the landlords accountable.  Let the zoning board 
hone in on the violations in the mutli family homes.  this is a 
treasure trove for getting rid of the pieces of crap who use AP as a 
place to sell drugs etc... why is this such a hard concept.  its easy 
to pick on the homeowner who pays taxes and is doing the right 
thing.  why not focus on the "slumlord"?  because that is too much 
work.  Let's cut the crap and excuses.  how bout a new mantra in the 
town is 'accountability' in all aspects.  lets see what happens

dan


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Mario" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> "I think it would be interesting for their neighbors to know that 
the
> person living in a mega mansion in Colts Neck is actually a slum 
lord in
> Red Bank." - Menna
> 
> 
> 
> RB Mayor Speaks Out Against Slumlords Menna would like to publish 
names
> of code violators
> http://www.tworivertimes.com/current/news4.php
> 
> By John Burton
> 
> RED BANK - Rental property owners convicted of code violations 
could see
> their names in the newspapers, if Mayor Pasquale Menna gets his way.
> 
> Recently and again at New Year's Day's borough reorganization 
meeting
> Menna had indicated he would like to publish the names of 
landlords, who
> are often absentee landlords, who are regularly cited by the 
borough's
> code enforcement office for violations such as overcrowding.
> 
> Some of those property owners have been identified only by a limited
> liability company name, or LLC, in which the property is listed.
> 
> LLCs are a cross between a corporation and a partnership that 
legally
> protects its members' personal assets and limits their 
responsibility
> for business debt, as well as offering other certain tax benefits.
> 
> Menna would like to use the names of the LLCs' members should they 
be
> convicted of code endorcement offenses, and have those names 
published.
> 
> "I think it would be interesting for their neighbors to know that 
the
> person living in a mega- mansion in Colts Neck is actually a slum 
lord
> in Red Bank," Menna said.
> 
> Traditionally, the company would only have to name one member as the
> managing partner, offering the remaining members a certain level of
> anonymity. But in the borough, under its "pay-to-play" ordinance,
> regulating political contributions, contains a provision where all 
LLC
> members with a 10 percent or more holding are identified. Last year 
the
> borough's zoning board of adjustment and the planning board adopted 
a
> policy of disclosing the participants with the same minimum holding,
> too. The state's land-use laws does permit it, Menna, an attorney, 
said.
> 
> The borough's code enforcement office has hired an additional 
officer
> and stepped up enforcement, which has led to some property owners 
being
> cited for such violations as overcrowding - allegedly using their
> property as illegal boarding houses. Some of the repeat offenders, 
Menna
> has said on a few occasions recently, are from other communities and
> regularly appear on the society pages of some publications in 
connection
> with philanthropic causes.
> 
> Menna said he would like their philanthropy, "to spill over to be
> socially conscious as landlords."
> 
> By doing this, "it raises community sensitivity," Menna said.
> 
> Menna could not name any other area community that publishes the 
names
> of housing code violators, but he said there appear to be no legal
> constraints against doing it. Once the property owner has been 
convicted
> of the violations, that information is in the public records, he
> explained.
>




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Re: MM

[dsher4]

having capital when others don't and when others are under duress is 
a terrific way to make outstanding retail investments.  


>
> Wow, MM is busy these days...
> 
> 
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "oakdorf"  wrote:
> >
> > in minneapolis:
> > 
> > Capital Growth Madison Marquette has signed on to a Paul Bunyan-
> sized retail development 
> > in Bemidji.
> > 
> > The Minnetonka commercial real estate firm will develop Pinnacle 
> Village through a joint 
> > venture with Bemidji businessman Harry Takhar, who has been 
trying 
> to get the 60-acre 
> > retail center off the ground for several years. The $50 million 
> project will be located at the 
> > intersection of Highways 2 and 71.
> > 
> > Pinnacle Village will be one of the largest retail centers in 
> outstate Minnesota. Bemidji has a 
> > population of just more than 13,000, but the developers expect 
to 
> draw from a population of 
> > nearly 140,000 within a 60-mile radius and the roughly 7.8 
million 
> travelers that visit the 
> > area each year.
> > 
> > The first phase of the project will span 460,000 square feet, 
> including a 170,000-square-
> > foot big-box retailer and a 115,000-square-foot outlet center. 
> Groundbreaking is scheduled 
> > to start in spring 2008 with completion targeted for the 
following 
> spring or summer.
> >
>




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Re: Goldman sachs...

[dsher4]

This is purely an FYI:
Goldman was one of the very few companies who did not perpetuate any 
of this.  They are #1 in almost every category related to investment 
banking but was #13 in issuing of mortgage related products.  They 
were also net short the mortgage market for most of 2007 and is the 
only company that didn't have to take large writedowns last year.  
Blame everyone else except these guys actually. 



>
> It'll be a buyer's market, for at least 6 months.  Consumers 
spending
> less, 130 jobs lost at a furniture factory in NC, due to the drop 
in
> home buyers.  Yep!  Goldman is one of the culprits!
> 
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "oakdorf"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Pitzer"  
wrote:
> > >
> > > Get used to it.
> > > GW is expected to be announcing the injecting of more funny 
money
> into the economy 
> > when 
> > > he gives his state of the union address.
> > > 
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > I'm not gonna watch it.
> > 
> > I just want to see the rates drop so I can refi and "equity 
strip"
> for the future (some wall st 
> > tax planner told me that one)
> >
>




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Re:More productive topics...

[dsher4]

Reason it is kept from moving forward is because a vulture investor 
(AP) has a strangehold on vast portions of the waterfront and they 
care about maximizing every penny (hence the condo idea).  
I know the town is more than the waterfront, but the tax and revenue 
from that area could help to drive the rest of the town.  
Once the town starts dictating terms and or working with someone who 
knows what they are doing (MM) while also doing what is best for the 
town and not Asbury partners pockets, all the rest will follow as it 
always does in free enterprise.  Asbury partners is like a communist 
system and is stifling.  


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> In a message dated 1/8/2008 10:27:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> 
> What  is it that keeps AP from acting on the obvious? 
> Is it a lack of resources?  Or a lack of "balls"
> Here's what I'm talking about...things like falling  apart 
bungalows that are 
> perpetual 
> eyesores, burned out buildings. The  crap that's constantly 
around...
> The $64,000 Question!
>  
> 
> 
> 
> **Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in 
shape. 
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?
NCID=aolcmp0030002489
>




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Re: Make it clean safe and fun

[dsher4]

And before anybody asks i do have a house in town, that i own, that i 
use an don't rent and i have a wife and 2 kids so my Mrs. does come to 
town.  

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dsher4" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Let's keep it simple.
> It has nothing to do with prices of condo's.
> People buy multi million dollar properties every day of the year up 
> and down the NJ shore.
> It's about making a town, clean, safe with entertainment that people 
> want to see integrated with an intelligent housing situation.  
> We already have low end and mid end condo's and they aren't selling 
bc 
> the majority of the world views asbury as a scary place with minimal 
> to offer.
> That is the issue
>




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Make it clean safe and fun

[dsher4]

Let's keep it simple.
It has nothing to do with prices of condo's.
People buy multi million dollar properties every day of the year up 
and down the NJ shore.
It's about making a town, clean, safe with entertainment that people 
want to see integrated with an intelligent housing situation.  
We already have low end and mid end condo's and they aren't selling bc 
the majority of the world views asbury as a scary place with minimal 
to offer.
That is the issue



 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Porch

[dsher4]

perhaps in 2008 the tri-city news flash will read

"breaking news, town officials and Werner were seen having a 
redevelopment planning session on non-other than Werner's Porch.  
The meeting ended with everyone singing Koombya.  

=
=
> 
> Its also important to recognize and acknowledge that you (The 
> Municipality) do not know everything. A sign of good leadership is 
the 
> ability to come to grips with that and be willing to accept and 
> surround yourself with the most knowlegable sources available.
> 
> As I said.. when I get a call or email ...
> 
> Werner
>




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Re: any work on the 72 hours?

[dsher4]

Point well taken.  My guess is that when a developer has skin in the 
game from point of view of ongoing retail they try to do a better 
job of doing it right (as opposed to slapping up a bunch of 
buildings and then leaving town, or dissolving the corporation after 
in its ugliest form).  If MM has a cut of the retail, my guess is 
they will want a respectable product.  But i'm  not privy to all the 
details obviously.  

> >
> 
> 
> 100% agreed. However, remember there are no white knights, MM
> included. There is much many do not know. Never trade one master 
for
> another. It is the city that must be the master and the developers 
the
> dogs. When you are a municipality, it is important to remember 
that no
> developer is your friend.
>




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Re: any work on the 72 hours?

[dsher4]

In real estate and many areas of investing some of the most important 
characteristics to have are vision, patience, deep pockets, common 
sense, detachment, humility and the ability to ignore general panic. 
All things that the people at MM seem to have.  

Let's keep the focus in 2008 in looking forward.  If these guys 
continue with the boardwalk and take over for Kushner, everyone will 
be pleased with where this town goes.  So let's keep going with the 
positive thinking and ideas on what makes sense in this town.  I think 
the people from MM read this board and maybe some of those ideas might 
make it into "production". 

How many wonderfully successful pessimists do you know?  Finally there 
seems to be a legitimate player in town in MM, lets give them a chance 
to execute.  

  
> 
> The biggest thing is continuing were MM left off. HOPE for good 
weather.
> 
> 
> 



 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Why FULL DISCLOSURE matters now more than ever !!

[dsher4]

As Oak and i were discussing a few days ago, progress in Asbury is 
very dependent on the single family home owner (or prospective still 
thinking about coming here) and the continued progress on Cookman.  

For this reason it is increasingly important that the town is 
upfront about what is happening with MM, the waterfront and future 
negotiations with developers etc...  In the past, the town's 
communication was "trust us" the developers are moving forward.  Now 
that this is in doubt it has never been more important for the town 
spokespeople to be frank and upfront on all issues.  This will allow 
the individual people who are still moving forward to do so with 
comfort and knowledge that progress is still happening.  

If anyone out there is reading this in a position of knowledge, 
please keep us abreast of all developments.  If they are bad, 
eventually we will find out anyway, if they are positive or at least 
ok, progress can continue in a grassroots way by the many "little" 
people who continue to invest in this town.  Thank  you

Dan S.



 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Re: What matters....

[dsher4]

Agree with those points:

Another thought

I think it would do wonders if the city took all the slumlords to 
task and didn't allow them to let groups of people live in houses 
illegally.  Also force these homes to fix all code violations and the 
landlords will either sell the homes because they don't want to put 
in two pennies or be forced to fix them up and kick out the people 
who have no regard for responsibility.  
Code enforcement on single family home owners who are putting hard 
earned money and sweat equity into homes is not the best use of 
time.  Sure all renovations should be monitored but focusing on the 
real problems and problem homes would make a lot more sense. 
Problem is it is scary to bust someone's chops when you are scared of 
them.  Much easier to bother someone who is an upstanding citizen.  



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "oakdorf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 1. The city remain tough in zoning, code enforcement and police.
> 
> 2. Figure out what plans are in place for 2008 from Madison M.
> 
> 3. Calculate how many units will sell in 2008 in the redevelopment 
zone.
> 
> 4. For the summer, get those empty lots cleaned up. Boarded up 
buildings should be clenaed 
> up as well. 
> 
> 5. Get rid of the eyesore on cookman - old phoneix.
> 
> 6. Collect what monies are owed (if) from the developers.
>




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] development vs private entrepreneurs and homeowners

[dsher4]

What is really interesting to watch in asbury is the fact that cookman 
and individual people keep moving forward.  Cookman is being led by 
entrepreneurs and single family homes are being bought and renovated 
by people who like and believe in the town.  The stalled projects are 
the redevelopment projects only.  How ironic.  I'm not a pollyanna so 
i worry about the whole thing falling in on itself.  that being said i 
think the breadth and magnitude of what has already come into town to 
make roots is self sustaining.  Only time will tell. 
Quite frankly the esperanza is very important but also not so 
important in the sense that if the town keeps improving on its own, 
someone will see the value of oceanfront property and step up.  
Clearly this pushes things backward but its harder to stop a 
grassroots movement that is widespread than a movement lead by one or 
two forces.  Please let me know if you disagree and why?  This was 
also an attempt to bring the conversation back to asbury, this board 
has enough issues without injecting national politics.  

Dan S.  



 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Madison Marquette and esperanza

[dsher4]

a week or so ago someone suggested here that perhaps MM would be 
interested in taking over for Metro.  Think it might have been Dan.  

Does anyone have any more information in regard to that?  I know MM 
just raised approx 480 million a little while back to deploy so 
perhaps they would be interested in coming in at a bargain price and 
taking it off Metro's hands.  

I know the legal aspects are complex but perhaps the city decided to 
take a tougher stance because in their back pocket they knew they had 
an interested, legitimate, fully funded party who would step up.

Any thoughts?

D Sheridan



 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] DRA and what if MM leaves

[dsher4]

2 questions?

Isn't Partners still bound by the resolution agreement and technically 
in default?

Any ideas what to do if MM leaves?



 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] MM is the most important part of this

[dsher4]

Obviously this is a negative and will make outisders worry about the 
viability of this town again (particularly looking at a half built 
bldg).  May also end up in another legal morass.  However, this is 
not disimilar to what is happening all over the country, so it is 
not AP specific (i know partners suck etc... no need to re-itterate 
here).  What is most important in all of this is whether Madison 
Marquette is still committed.  we all know on this board that the 
boardwalk and cookman are two vital pieces to this city coming 
back.  If Cookman continues to improve and if MM is committed to 
fixing up the boardwalk and the pavillions (continuing that 
entertainment improvement they are providing), you will continue to 
see people  moving to this area to single family homes and into the 
many condo projects which are still open for business.  There was 
already a supply problem in this town before this metro news.   What 
is important is that improvements continue to be made and the 
traffic and interest will continue in asbury.  It is still at a 
major discount to any shore town.  I think it would go a long way if 
MM and the powers that be could make a positive statement indicating 
that the other aspects of this plan are moving forward.  If a year 
from now MM is still humming along, i wouldn't be suprised if metro 
comes back or another developer picks up where they left off.  

D Sheridan



 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Re: GO BISHOPS!!!

[dsher4]

here's a thought regarding taxpayer money or funds raised by 
citizens/mm/asbury partners.  Win or lose something special should 
be done for this football team by this town.  Show these kids (and 
the younger ones who look up to them) what can happen with hard work 
and dedication.  It also sends a message that the town is united and 
is willing to stand behind the kids when they do good things, not 
just arrest them when they do bad things.  Any ideas?



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> The APHS Football team is going to play for their section of the 
State 
> Championship next Saturday, probably at Rutgers.
> 
> They are 9-1, having won 9 straight.  An enourmous turn around 
from 
> last year when they were 1-9.  In their defense, the board of ed 
last 
> year acutally let them start the season without having a coach.
> 
> Anyway, since APHS hasn't won a title in 23 years and hasn't 
played 
> for one in 20, this is historic.
> 
> A town gets judged by its football.
> 
> Maybe it would be a good idea to go up to Rutgers next weekend to 
> support them.
> 
> It just so happens that Howell is playing the same day at Rutgers 
for 
> a Championship in a different sectiton, so I get a 2 for 1.
>




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Re: What $2.5M buys

[dsher4]

That was Articulate and Practical.  A better focus for us would be 
determining how to get the "Green spaces" back to what they should 
be like getting plantings back into Bradley Park again.  That is 
feasible and would look beautiful.  Scaling back the building is a 
non-starter so lets focus where it may have an impact.

Dan

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "arcman210" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "oakdorf"  wrote:
> >
> > -you need to use 100% lot coverage to obtain 100% usability or 
for
> > that matter, 200%. OPEN SPACE at street level - open airways, 
use of
> > glass and natural stone and levels. NYC mandated it (right dan) 
at
> > least 20 years ago as street level. Open those architecture 
books at
> > reread Frank Llyod Wright or I.M. Pei.
> 
> 
> First of all, this isnt New York City, this is Asbury Park.  In 
New 
> York, there are hundreds of streets and blocks, different areas of 
> density, a heavy flow of constant foot traffic... if Asbury Park 
ever 
> has as much density as New York City then God bless it. And that 
rule 
> only applies to high density areas of New York like Times Square, 
> Columbus Circle, 5th Avenue, etc.  Things that would be the 
> equivalent of the Boardwalk, Cookman Avenue, Main Street.
> 
> Frank Lloyd Wright designed mostly homes for suburbs with yards in 
> his career. Natural light, glass, stone... these were things 
designed 
> to make people feel comfortable from the INSIDE of the building, 
not 
> people walking by on the street.  His houses were designed with 
> interior spaces in mind, he is sometimes credited with creating 
what 
> we would today call an open floor plan.  
> 
> If you really want Asbury Park to rebound, then you have to accept 
> the fact that things aren't going to be like they were in the 
past.  
> Wake up people, you cant get developers to build single family 
homes, 
> motels, one story restaruants and bars, etc in a town which has 
> blocks and blocks of empty oceanfront real estate.  I dont care 
what 
> the name on the door of the company behind the redevelopment is, 
its 
> a pipe dream if you believe the past is going to come back.
> 
> Theyre going to build big with alot of density, and in the case of 
> the Esperanza, or North Beach, or anything else thats going to get 
> built for that matter, you have to utilize 100% lot coverage (or 
> close to it) at street level in order to accomodate parking under 
the 
> building as well as mechaincal equiptment, lobbys and entrances, 
> retail, and also being able to fit a pool on top of the building 
in 
> between the towers.  Without those things the building wont 
function 
> properly, and you arent utilizing all of your potential as a 
> developer... and as an architect, you design based on what the 
> developer wants.  If the architect said to Metro Homes, "hey I 
think 
> you should scale back your project 75 units and set back your 
> building 10 feet from each side to include a lawn," they'd tell 
him 
> or her to go screw themselves and they'd get someone else to 
design 
> the building.  Remember, theres a business aspect to all of this 
too.
> 
> And do you really think people aren't going to come to Asbury 
Park, 
> or residents aren't going to walk down the street to the beach 
> because the Esperanza is too close to the street? Come on.
>




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Re: Comment on the Esperanza Sale

[dsher4]

Thank you Werner.




--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "wernerapnj" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dsher4"  wrote:
> >
> > Any chance you might have the link handy for the BCH story?  Thank 
you
> > 
> =
> 
> This one ?
> 
> http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200771106021
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/3a3qfx
> 
> Werner
>




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Re: Comment on the Esperanza Sale

[dsher4]

Any chance you might have the link handy for the BCH story?  Thank you


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> A comment left on the Real Deal. Very unlike the typical negative NJ
> comments on the APP anytime there is even a "good" AP story (see
> today's APP about BCH).
> 
> My parents live in Allenhurst which is just north of Asbury.
> Allenhurst and Deal just north are extremely wealthy towns where 
ocean
> front houses have sold for over 20 million dollars, a house on about 
a
> third of an acre, but ocean front just sold for 5.5 million in
> Allenhurst. Forbes listed Deal as the 13th most expensive zip code in
> the country. To the south is Spring Lake also an extremely wealthy
> town. Asbury shares the same proximity to the beach and views, plus
> its only an hour from Manhattan. Why shouldn't it be able to turn
> itself aroun
>




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Friday Nights executive session

[dsher4]

Does anybody have any insight or update about what transpired at the 
executive session Friday night?  The special meeting to discuss the 
waterfront.  



 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Re: matolla comes out swinging

[dsher4]

Other than the 5th avenue pavillion all of the others have very little 
architectural beauty.  They are rectangular boxes and nothing like 
what was there in old postcards.  How about putting all of the 
restoration effort and money into the bandshell and HoJo's and doing 
it right.   Knock the other eyesores down and start from scratch 
putting up something brand new that has a historical look.  its a nice 
compromise.  





--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "apoojo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "oakdorf"  wrote:
> >
> > > 
> > Here's something that could be done in less then a day:
> > 1. remove the little booth for th 2nd ave mini golf. More work has 
> > been put into ssaving that then the 5th ave pavillion. Must be for 
> > some regulations. Save for the old arcade booth at the 1st ave 
> > minigolf. KNOCK IT DOWN...what a POS. Jail time for the POS.
> >
> isnt it called cafra or something, knock it down its gone for good, 
> keep the floor prints and your ok, you can use your imagination to 
> create something in this sq. footage. never ever knock something down
>




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Re: Uncertainty regarding redevelopment plan

[dsher4]

People who live in glass front porches shouldn't throw stones.  Just  
kidding, couldn't resist.


> >==
> 
> Just get hold of the redeveloment plan documents/agreements and you 
> will see that progress is YEARS behind schedule.
> 
> This Redevelopment is a resounding failure by all reasonable 
> measures.
> 
> Werner
>




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Uncertainty regarding redevelopment plan

[dsher4]

A lot of the uncertainty about what is going on could be avoided if 
there was a real effort to keep the oceanfrontasbury website updated.  
Unfortunately that would mean someone could be held accountable for 
progress dates so it won't happen.  It would be invaluable to actually 
have an updated, interactive website where people could go to get 
accurate information about what progress is being made in this town.  
As opposed to a photos link which hasn't been changed in months.  
Simple things go a long way.



 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Re: And the market reacts....

[dsher4]

Forget housing related stuff, those businesses are still troubled, you 
want to buy retailers and tech off this rate cut.  Retail has been 
crushed and this will help and tech was already strong, has good 
overseas exposure and also is a cyclicall that benefits from rate 
cuts.  Avoid the housing stuff, too hard to figure out, do the easy 
stuff
>
> 
> Optimist):
> 
> Never hurts to take a profit, unless you were chicken (like me) 
before 
> the fed finished their meeting. What a difference 15 minutes makes. 
HOV 
> jumps then HOV jumps again with 15 minutes to go. 
> 
> Reality is NOTHING really changed in the REAL WORLD. Only the cost 
to 
> play with money.
> 
> Just some boys get to cover their rears. 
> 
> Let's see where the mortgage rates go, esp the jumbos.
>




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Re: And the market reacts....

[dsher4]

Market should work higher from here, there will be some continued 
issues in sub-prime and housing (not sure about the stocks of those 
companies) but the rest of the market is heading a good bit higher. 
The worst of the credit issues are behind and the market discounts 
forward 

>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dsher4"  wrote:
> >
> > instead of complaining about it, buy some stocks instead
> > 
> > 
> Done deal my friend. In and out. Not a complaint, just an 
observation.
> 
> Sometimes you have to have the guts to hold out instead of taking a 
> quick profit to make $100 just to watch HOV run $3.50 in 2 hours.
> 
> Time will tell.
>




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Re: And the market reacts....

[dsher4]

instead of complaining about it, buy some stocks instead


>
> the feds to the rescue...again.
> 
> Ok, since the banks, companies and many individuals screwed 
upthe 
> feds come in again to help. To help the avg joe to screwup one mo 
time.
> 
> Keep on spending.
>




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[AsburyPark] Re: Berkeley Carteret Hotel

[dsher4]

I hear you on keeping it unique, but those are all generalities and 
not solutions to what it should look like and how you should take 
advantage of asbury's intrinsic asssets as it relates to this 
structure.  I'm just curious how you think that should be done at the 
Berkeley.  Also who knows what they have planned for restaurants 
events etc... 

> >
> =
> 
> What should be done?
> 
> Build on the unique identity and character of Asbury Park.
> This is not NYC, Miami, Timbuktu or any other place.
> This is Asbury Park, NJ, USA.
> 
> The Greatest damage being done to Asbury Park, both culturally and 
> economically, is failure to take advantage of its intrinsic assets.
> Attemping to turn this City into someplace else is what's killing it.
> 
> Werner
>




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/