[AsburyPark] Re: The Defacing of Asbury Park
Your post, and this obituary from today's Times, makes one wonder what Ms. Huxtable might have written about the subject: http://tinyurl.com/afabwx5 A few gems: At a time when architects were still in thrall to blank-slate urban renewal, Ms. Huxtable championed preservation not because old buildings were quaint, or even necessarily historical landmarks, but because they contributed vitally to the cityscape. She was appalled at how profit dictated planning and led developers to squeeze the most floor area onto the least amount of land with the fewest public amenities. She invited readers to consider a building not as an assembly of pilasters and entablatures but as a public statement whose form and placement had real consequences for its neighbors as well as its occupants. What infuriated her were authentic reproductions of historical architecture and surrogate environments like Colonial Williamsburg and master-planned communities like the Disney Company's Celebration, Fla. Private preserves of theme park and supermall increasingly substitute for nature and the public realm, while nostalgia for what never was replaces the genuine urban survival, she wrote in The Unreal America: Architecture and Illusion (1997). --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj wrote: Reading a post on the Asbury Park Sun today reminded me of a threat the City has been facing for decades... The defacement of its vintage and historic structures. The damage is incremental and hardly noticed until it reaches a critical mass and adversely effects the character of the community. Some notable examples. - A classic brick residential/commercial building at 6th and Main; painted. - The former North Asbury Park RR Station at Memorial Dr. of brick and exposed wood beams; painted. - A brick building at Summerfield and Emory; painted - The Windor Building at Main and Bangs, a historic site; painted, antenna dishes, inappropriate commercial facades. - The Arthur Pryor Pavilion; stuccoed over, painted, remodeled. - Many classic brick Main St. buildings; stuccoed over, painted, inappropriate storefronts, etc... Stucco, paint, inappropriate storefronts, remodeling The clasic, historic look and feel of Asbury Park is being erased in a slow steady assault. The Sun posting has a photo of a beautiful brick commercial building with inappropriate signage covering what should be transom windows, a character defining feature of the building. http://asburyparksun.com/rebearth-art-supply-and-lifestyle-to-close/ This board has been inactive for so long, but at least my concerns are now part of public record... Werner Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Another lost opportunity for AP - Bruce exhibit at RnR HOF
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hing...@... wrote: We have a dedicated core of new musicians here, but we only have a disjointed and tiny group of clubs for them to work in, and to attact big names to. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jennifer jennifern...@... wrote: As for a Bruce display, why does it have to be done by the city? Two posts that speak directly to what one of those dedicated musicians writes quite eloquently about here. Read through to the end: http://nicoleatkinsblog.blogspot.com/2008/12/sweet-home-new-orleans.html What's that old saying about if you want something done right you have to do it yourself? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Another lost opportunity for AP - Bruce exhibit at RnR HOF
I'll post this again: http://nicoleatkinsblog.blogspot.com/2008/12/sweet-home-new- orleans.html Thoughts? You work at the Saint. What IS the music scene like there in town now? Is there a way for the musicians and club owners to work together to nurture a scene, independent from government or big business help/interference? If yes, why isn't it happening? What would it take? You've mentioned Austin. The city council didn't create the scene there. The Clifford Antones of the world did. Plus that's a college town. The audience is always around. How do you nurture a scene in a region from which the young tend to flee? And is the boardwalk the only thoroughfare on which it can happen? MM doesn't run the show on Main Street. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hing...@... wrote: You know what? I make no apologies about my opinions of AP. I'm not going to be dishonest to myself or anybody about it. I think what we have now is a pale version of what we could have, and once had. I think were merely accepting something marginal, and I don't feel bad at all in saying it. Sorry. Currently the boardwalk draws a fraction of what it once did. It's better then it was in recent years, but nothing like what it could be. And as part of the local music scene, yes, we have one, but once again, since I work in the business I feel confident in saying that it also isn't what it could be, but it's the best that it can be at the moment. Obviously you don't know much about Springsteen and his connection to the city. His most famous album is callled Greetings from Asbury Park and the album cover is a classic post card from it's heyday. He rose up in the scene playing at local clubs, most of which no longer exist. His name is inextricably associated with the city. We all have different likes and dislikes, and there's nothing wrong with expressing that. You ask me what I like about AP? Plenty. I love my classic apartment and being so close to the beach for a reasonable price. I love the architecture of Convention Hall and the acoustics of The Paramount. I love The Saint, where I work. I absolutely love Cookman Avenue because it still has a classic look with character. But, i greatly dislike the way the boardwalk pavilions have been renovated. It says nothing at all to me. I don't like the architecture at all. I see a strip mall, but that's just me. I greatly dislike the fact that the band shell has been eliminated and that nobody is taking MM to task about it. I think high end retail is a waste of space destined for failure., On the other hand, I love that there's a bike store there, because bicycling by the sea really appeals to me. It's a big fixture in Atlantic City, Cape May, and scores of similar places across the country. My discontent has nothing to do with the vibe in the country, in fact, AP is a safe haven away from it because it's my home. Finally, with all due respect, you've never met me. I'm probably the most immature 47 year old person I know. Smarter, but still very similar to the teenage me. I'm more about aesthetics then money, more about The Adriatic then Applebees. I've also spent a huge amount of time living and working overseas, where they tend to value history more then we do, and preserve things rather then rebuild, and when they do rebuild they tend to stay faithful to what went before. Here in America, it's the opposite for much of the country. We don't build buildings to last anymore, we build them to knock down and replace because of money. And I think that's a great loss. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Another lost opportunity for AP - Bruce exhibit at RnR HOF
Your points in the second half of your post are valid, but I'm not sure I see a connection between those points and the city blowing anything in the context of the Hall of Fame exhibit. If you look at the Hall's Web site, there is no announcement. And the Associated Press article was noticeably short and devoid of detail. Rock Hall officials today couldn't disclose any specifics about what the exhibit will include, except to say it's a work in progress. So all anyone knows for sure is that there will be an exhibit, and it is tentatively titled ''From Asbury Park to the Promised Land: The Life and Music of Bruce Springsteen'' Since the arc of both his life and music began not in Asbury Park, but rather Freehold (and, to a lesser extent, Middletown and Sea Bright) it seems like based on the title alone the city has already come out ahead of the game - at least in terms of PR. If I were a resident of Freehold, however, I think I'd be a little miffed. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hing...@... wrote: The city blew it again. Yesterday a major exhibit was announced for the R n R Hall of Fame... a Bruce exhibit. Of course AP will be a part of that exhibit. And here we are with our most well known and recognizable export, with nothing. And what do we get? A boardwalk with mostly failing high end retail, acres of empty parking lots, and the ugly piece of crap C8 part 2 destined to mar the landscape for an indefinite time. I guess that's what we get when we allow a company who focuses on malls and retails to guide our destiny. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Why was a dumpster buried at the Met hotel site?
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hing...@... wrote: They live right next door in the tower, and both said they saw it happen. If this was something illegal, how could it happen without being noticed by anybody from the city? Well, at least two people saw it, apparently. And if I were a reporter for The Coaster, I'd be working the email and phones like mad trying to get a hold of those two people, getting detailed interviews, then calling Crisitello, who'd likely respond with a no comment, then ringing up the code enforcement office and asking what's up on their end, then the state DEP, then the cops, then every council member. Put everyone's answers in a lengthy front page article and see if anyone bothers to put shovel to ground and find out if, in fact, someone was able to both excavate a hole on the property large enough for a dumpster to fit in, and then lift a dumpster, presumably through very loud, mechanical means, off the ground and into the hole, then fill in the hole, again through loud, mecahnical means - all without any of the neighbors walking out from their porches onto the street and asking someone on the property, Umm...what are you doing? Not only does this fall under the rubric of watchdog press, but it should make for a hell of an engaging narrative. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Another lost opportunity for AP - Bruce exhibit at RnR HOF
Well, I don't wish to belabor the point, but while I think everyone can agree with what your saying here, I still don't see how the city blew anything vis a vis the Hall of Fame. When you used the adverb again after blew it, that sounded like there was an opportunity the city had regarding this particular exhibit, and that they lost that opportunity through inaction. Or is it more that this exhibit simply reminds you that the city has dropped the ball on cultural tourism continually over the course of many years? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hing...@... wrote: Valid points, all of them, but the fact is that Bruce Springsteen and Asbury Park will be forever linked for so many reasons. I see people taking their photos all the time in front of the Stone Pony, and I tend to think that the only reason they do so is because of it's connection to Bruce. I've told this story before, but a few years ago I was working at the German MTV music video awards in Hannover Germany. I was wandering around the location, which was the Worlds Fair where it was being shot, and proudly wearing my Vaccarro Guitars shirt which features the name Asbury Park, NJ I can't tell you how many people stopped me to ask about the shirt, and 2 really nice women actually offered to buy the shirt right off my back. They kept asking if I knew Bruce and all sorts of related questions. And this happened to me many times. Many of us in AP have said for years that AP is completely ignoring the concept of music tourism as it relates to Bruce and the rich musical heritage that pretty much put the city on the world map for many people. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sandpiper15 sandpiper15@ wrote: Your points in the second half of your post are valid, but I'm not sure I see a connection between those points and the city blowing anything in the context of the Hall of Fame exhibit. If you look at the Hall's Web site, there is no announcement. And the Associated Press article was noticeably short and devoid of detail. Rock Hall officials today couldn't disclose any specifics about what the exhibit will include, except to say it's a work in progress. So all anyone knows for sure is that there will be an exhibit, and it is tentatively titled ''From Asbury Park to the Promised Land: The Life and Music of Bruce Springsteen'' Since the arc of both his life and music began not in Asbury Park, but rather Freehold (and, to a lesser extent, Middletown and Sea Bright) it seems like based on the title alone the city has already come out ahead of the game - at least in terms of PR. If I were a resident of Freehold, however, I think I'd be a little miffed. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hinge98@ wrote: The city blew it again. Yesterday a major exhibit was announced for the R n R Hall of Fame... a Bruce exhibit. Of course AP will be a part of that exhibit. And here we are with our most well known and recognizable export, with nothing. And what do we get? A boardwalk with mostly failing high end retail, acres of empty parking lots, and the ugly piece of crap C8 part 2 destined to mar the landscape for an indefinite time. I guess that's what we get when we allow a company who focuses on malls and retails to guide our destiny. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Bad Design Explained
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hing...@... wrote: And, I'm beginning to wonder if anybody in this cities administration is going to take MM to task about their elimination of the band shell. What a huge waste in my opinion. If the administration doesn't take MM to task, it seems to follow that the administration itself should be taken to task. Perhaps a little electoral supplanting? As it stands now, the boardwalk has little or no personality looks wise. It's generic and pedestrian. Not memorable. But, I believe we are stuck with it. Music to Larry Fishman's ears. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:asburypark-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:asburypark-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: asburypark-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Weekend Photos
Thanks again for your illustrative photography Glenn. Your comment regarding the carousel horses is spot on. Talk about salt on an open wound. Those lights on the heating plant remind me of the ones on the Yankee Clipper, the late, lamented seafood house next to the lighthouse in Sea Girt. They used similar lamps to illuminate the beach at night, which let anyone lucky enough to get window seats in the dining room watch the waves coming in while they dined. Curious as to what purpose the ones on the plant serve though. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dapawprint [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, For those of you who didn't get around AP this weekend, I have posted a few (too cold to take a LOT) pictures at http://www.flickr.com/photos/dapaw http://www.flickr.com/photos/dapaw Glenn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Thick-Skinned in Asbury Park?
Mario, Neither Cohen nor Springsteen ever refer to Asbury Park as a town of losers. Obviously he's referring to the lyric from Thunder Road, which never specifies a particular town. (though given its references to dusty beach roads and windblown hair [hard to imagine on snail paced Ocean Avenue], it's likely he had some town in southern Ocean County in mind.) Cohen, like Springsteen, is using it as a metaphor for any small town in America from which a young, creative person would want to escape. Yes, he specifies a boardwalk scene, but again, that could be Point, Seaside, Wildwood, whatever. He's talking about the shore in general, and you shouldn't take it as a slight. It's just a college kid writing about how everyone can get into Bruce's version of Santa Claus is Comin' to Town, which is true (until about the 10th time they play it ;). As to what he meant by horizontally inclined, I guess he was imagining the US as a person lying on his stomach, arms (New England) outstretched. Of course, one then wonders what metaphor he'd use for the south of Texas. The main thrust of his essay seems to be that --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thought I was in for a feel-good read. Until I came across the reference to Asbury Park as a town of losers. Guess I'm not thick-skinned. Feel free to educate this guy via the comment box or letters link. Anyone get what he means by horizontally inclined? = From Duke University's The Sandbox - Recess at http://tinyurl.com/6m3ccxPosted: 12/4/08 We New Jerseyans have thick skin about most offenses to the Garden State. (Just to be clear: It doesn't smell like garbage, I don't find it ironic that our state nickname invokes beauty and if New Jersey is the armpit of America, our glob of a country sure is horizontally inclined.) We'll tolerate most barbs, but don't you dare demean Bruce Springsteen, because The Boss is ours. He's stitched himself into the fabric of New Jersey, and by this point he's as culturally ingrained as diners, Tony Soprano and the neon lights on the boardwalk's tilt-a-whirls down the shore. It doesn't matter that Springsteen became rock and roll's future by yearning to leave New Jersey and find himself on the open road, to quit the boardwalk scene and pull out of a town full of losers, because even though he left... well, he never really did. He still plays rollicking shows in Giants Stadium on every tour and, with the E Street Band, awes crowds with rumbling sets that include the same hits from those iconic 1970s albums. The state's true poet laureate is now a revered social critic, and his music reflects his age and political activism-and from a selfish standpoint, it's simply not as fun to blast the new stuff and sing along even though you can't hear your own voice, because it's not that type of music anymore. There are no more Thunder Roads for Springsteen to find, only 41 shots for him to riff on. Except, that is, for about one month every year, when radio stations hide Born in the U.S.A. or The Rising and pull out a dusty track that hasn't been played in 11 months. Roy Bittan starts by tickling the piano to conjure bells, and the crowd roars in hysterical approval. Clarence Clemons does his best impersonation of Santa Claus and then, beautifully, Springsteen comes in with the simple words we've all memorized on the notes we all know are coming, yet somehow feel fresh every year: You better watch out/You better not cry/Better not pout/I'm telling you why. Then it's the crowd's turn, a reincarnation of the call-and-response Springsteen uses in all of his live shows now. It doesn't matter if you're in the car alone or if you're surrounded by thousands at the Stone Pony in Asbury Park; you yell, Santa Claus is coming to town! as loud, as hoarsely and with as much holiday fervor as you can. Max Weinberg ratchets up the percussion, Miami Steve croons in the background, Clarence solos on the sax-it's familiar, but invigorating. It's the best Christmas song of all time, because it captures the spirit of the holiday season. Find the bells and let loose. Embrace the company of others. And for goodness sake, fuhgeddabout the Jersey sneer, and be thankful the state is, indeed, not a glorified parking lot. We have, after all, given even the naughtiest of you the gift of Springsteen. = Happy Thankshallowistmas **Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new- dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolcom0010) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups
[AsburyPark] Re: Just Waded Through...
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: List what you'd like to see Won't happen, but since the question was unconditional, a new Casino. As bad as the unfinished condos and construction sites look, most of them are inland. You see a construction site surrounded by asphalt streets or sidewalks, there is a level of continuity and logic to it. You can work around it. However, the site of a rusting stone and steel foundation for a demolished building has a starker and more jarring visual effect on sand, next to the ocean. Particularly when you want people to feel comfortable recreating on that sand with their friends and family. Does a parent want their kid building sand castles if there's a possibility a tetanus- inducing rusty nail or pipe could be in that sand? Are people going to want to play volleyball or frisbee, which often involves diving full-body into the sand, if they think they might land on a nail or broken glass? Whether everything has been done to clean the beach or not, impressions matter. This goes for the north end of Ocean Grove as well. They have to deal with that mess on some level too. The beach is your number one draw in summer. Live music is number two. Fix that Casino, and you kill two birds with one stone. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Top 10 Ugliest Buildings In The World
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been a great supporter of the current Redevelopment Plan, and still am. But if you asked me what one thing I would change if they let me, it would be the decision to save the Casino. Save it is a misnomer anyway since more of it may have been gone than was left of it. Last time I was there, the majority of it had been demolished. So I guess I agree with your second point but am wondering what you mean by the decision to save it. It's obvious the developers had no intention of saving anything. What a missed opportunity. What a piece of realty, between the Ocean and a Lake. That parcel of real estate could have been used for a signature building, something world-wide glorious. Think of the Australian Opera house - when you see it, you say, That's Austrialia. Imagine a building that makes a new generation say, 'That's Asbury Park. Why can't that still happen? Given the bandshell situation, contracts and agreements are obviously a fluid thing on the boardwalk. Supplant the original agreement, bring the fish and the dog-catcher back to the table and draw up a new agreement that benefits all parties better than the current mall-on-the-sand plan. Just the construction of such a grand building and the anticipation it would bring would be it's own adverstising. Agreed. Casino was always Convention Hall's ugly sister, In your opinion perhaps. I actually found the Casino to be more inviting than CH, if only because of the pseudo-Mediterranean curves of the roof and the tall windows overlooking the beach. There's nothing wrong with CH, but visually it's a bit more blocky, more Lego- y. It's slightly more utilitarian, whereas the Casino always looked like it was trying to make an artistic statement. and while you might name one or two acts that played there, it really wasn't the big of a place for shows. Irrelevant now that it's gone. And Convention Hall wasn't built to take the constant pounding of amplified performances. A new, 21st century Casino could be. We had this conversation before. You have to be pretty old to even remember seeing a significant act there. If age and personal connection to past glory were prerequisites for preservation, we'd have no Count Basie Theatre, Loews Jersey, Independence Hall, Pantheon, or Great Wall. But alas, the Nostalgia Nazi, comprised mostly of people who never saw one day in the Casino but have mythologized its worth beyond reasonable proportion, won the day. Again, apparently not. It's gone. Far be it from Asbury Park to have one outdated Hall that never turned a profit (CH). We have to have two! See above. Build a new one, with visual nods to the past but the structural integrity of the present to ensure viability into the future. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: The Race Question At Asbury Park
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This evening the colored people denounced the hot-headed persons who talked of holding the indignation meeting. After conferring together, the leaders of the colored people decided that Mr. Bradley's action was justified by the circumstances, and there will be no trouble here over the race question. The New York Times -1890 - Applying modern values and standards to interpret events of another time and context leads to distorted conclusions. Werner True, but some values and standards are neither modern nor ancient, just universal. Bradley may not, in his heart, have believed that one race was inherently superior to another. He did, however, market his new city as a Christian retreat while (along with his hotel guests) openly flouting the most basic directives of that religion's spiritual forbear. In so doing, he only added another layer of hypocrisy to that which already existed in his denial of equal rights to those upon whose labor the prosperity of his city relied. None of this changes the fact that he laid out a mean street plan and funded some very progressive feats of municipal engineering. Those accomplishments should never be minimized or forgotten. But just as the sewage system, flared streets and boardwalk are a part of the man's legacy, so to is the degree to which the last line of the above Times article proved wrong. Warts and all, as they say. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: OMG - WTF - Again !
A couple of Ave Marias and we'll call it even. It's all good Sharon. ;) --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sharon_b283 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again, Mea Culpa and lashes across my shoulders! (The Monk in the movie, DaVinci Code, did this as Penance)! I'll assume cloistered Nuns did this too! You post so infrequent, I can't remember, (mind like a sieve), senior moment or asinine old lady! Should I go into my corner, kneel and say the rosary? All are possible! Again, Mea Culpa! I'm a Latin-speaking, 1950's Catholic! What can I tell you? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sandpiper15 sandpiper15@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sharon_b283 sharon_b283@ wrote: So who are you quoting and what do I have to do with it? I was just talking about this thread: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/message/39188 Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: OMG - WTF - Again !
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Definitely NOT - The only writing we will do is adversarial, So it'll be a two volume series! ;) , Bradley installed signs on the beachfront (his property) asking that employees of the hotels refrain from taking up all the seats and accommodations. I'll simply quote verbatim from the New York Times of October 24, 1893: He (Bradley) referred to the big twenty-five foot placard he had caused to be put up last Summer in one of the pavilions upon which was printed: 'Colored persons are requested not to occupy this pavilion.' Hotel guests and hotel owners were complaining and Bradley's motive was to protect the tourism industry the City depended on. True. From the Times of June 4, 1894: He (Bradley) explained that his course was made necessary by the numerous complaints of hotel guests, and that the hotel interests were paramount to all others in Asbury Park. But think about that wording. Paramount to all others. Even though that was the reporter's word choice, it probably got Bradley's viewpoint pretty closely. So the hotel interests were paramount to law enforcement throughout AP. Paramount to health care. Paramount to sanitation. Paramount to education. Paramount to human rights. And, as the Rev. F.A. Corsey of West Park's AME Zion Church quite accurately pointed out at the time, just as the hotels, and thus the city, relied on guests to support said tourism industry, so too did they rely on the predominantly black employees for the same. So at least two, if not more, distinct groups of people were contributing equally to the prosperity of the city, but only one of them could freely enjoy its fruits, at least on the oceanfront. Isn't this worth acknowledging? He helped 'negro' families financially and donated money to the local 'negro' churches. The reference to 'identification' refers to how would one know hotel workers from guests. No doubt on the first point. On the second point, again, I can only point out what was then written. July 7, 1887: There are undoubtedly many whites who would object to the mere presence even of well behaved and well conducted colored people, in any considerable number, on a beach to which they go for recreation. It's hard to believe it was merely the occupation of the hotel workers that so offended the guests. Bradley operated and opened the beachfront to the public at his own expense. He refused to sell to a private developer because he wanted the property to be a public asset, understanding that the control of the beachfront was key to the City's well-being. Okay, but if the beachfront was truly open to the public, then any member of the public, of any ethnic background, could have recreated upon any inch of sand from Deal Lake to the Ocean Grove border if they so wished. Was that, in reality, the case? What makes me cringe is coming to conclusions without the relevant information and perpetuating fallacies. Agreed. The passages I quoted above are all from a search on the NYTimes' web site. I don't post them out of disagreement, but rather to simply say, Well, this source is saying something else, so what do you make of that? If there is information not yet published that contradicts it, or adds missing context, all the more incentive for you, and JR, or anyone else who can, to get it out there, even if separately. Out there meaning on the Web and not languishing in some drawer at the library. Obviously you're preoccupied with more pressing matters at the moment, but I mean down the road. I think it would help people's understanding of Asbury Park immensely. Fast Forward - Which raises many issues concerning the sale of the beachfront to a private 'developer' by the City in violation of the original purchase agreement to keep it a public asset. Indeed. Historical question though: Was the agreement way back when to keep just the beach (literally the sand) public? Or did Bradley include the boardwalk and the area that is now between the boardwalk and Ocean Avenue? MM doesn't own the actual sand beach up to the waterline, does it? But of course no one cares since 'things are happening', they're 'having fun' and 'its better than it was' Werner I think a lot of people care. This board is evidence of that. As you said, you cringe when people draw conclusions without the relevant information. This board and Maureen's page are really the only places on the Web where anyone is discussing this stuff, but how much traffic is each getting? A well-publicized and linked (or is it Twittered?) independent media outlet, even if it's just a few locals with cameras and tape recorders and a command of HTML, would go along way toward shedding some sunshine on the governmental and commercial goings-on in the city. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on
[AsburyPark] Re: OMG - WTF - Again !
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sharon_b283 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So who are you quoting and what do I have to do with it? I was just talking about this thread: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/message/39188 Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: OMG - WTF - Again !
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sandpiper15 sandpiper15@ wrote: False dichotomoy. Myths can have great meaning. True, but the Tillie one doesn't. It all depends on your perspective I guess. You said 1955 and 1960. The links above are folks remembering the 1920's and 1930's. Notice the bad memories were NOT about the West Side. The ice cream story was about the boardwalk. True, but the realtor said her family couldn't live near the water. I read that as her family was expected to stay west of the tracks. And I think Rainette Holliman is very explicit when she talks about her experiences in Asbury Park Village. She had many happy memories, but she also makes it clear what her economic situation was and how that affected where her family lived. But fair enough. The years weren't exactly the same. I picked the 50s because I am trying to mathematically square when people who are now in their 50s and early 60s may have visited Asbury as kids. But it's hard for me to believe that the very rigid policies regarding race and geography from the earlier part of the 20th century didn't at all affect life along Springwood and Prospect well into mid-century, even if they were no longer officially enforced. So what do you think life on the west side was like in 1955 and 1960? A close reading of those oral histories makes me think that the kids got along well enough, but the older folks probably hewed to certain unwritten social codes of race and class that were a world away from the carousel, tilt-a-whirl and bumper cars. That was the point I was trying to get at. A 9 or 10 year old from New York or Hudson or Essex County in 1960 hears Asbury Park and he or she thinks, literally, a park. An amusement palace. A fantasy land. They weren't thinking about the fact that it was also a real, residential town, with real issues to be faced just like any other place. Sometimes I can get a little obscure. I apologize. I see; you were be metephorical. You turn a very good phrase. Have you done a lot of writing? Yes. On here. Probably too much. ;) Ensuring everyone in the city could benefit from, or (if they so wished) take advantage of, the city's natural and man-made resources, regardless of color, orientation or economic background. Who made that promise to whom? Thomas Jefferson, to all of us. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: OMG - WTF - Again !
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe Werner and I should write a book together. Definitely. Thank you for the detailed perspective, ALSO left off the postcards. If the past is prologue, it's worth looking at any area's history to figure out how it got to where it is and how it can get to where it could be. Your insights are invaluable in that regard, and if you don't get a book out, maybe you can at least put up a detailed Web site. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: OMG - WTF - Again !
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's why the Save Tillie people's mouths would drop when they would encounter locals who said we should get rid of the ugly old cartoon. They mythologized it, we knew it wasn't meaningful. False dichotomoy. Myths can have great meaning. What do you think life West of Main Street was like in 1955 or 1960? Significantly more complex than life on the boardwalk. Not having been around at the time, I'm left to rely on other's memories. You say Dan Wolff got it all wrong. What about these folks? http://www.visitmonmouth.com/oralhistory/bios/HolimonRainette.htm http://www.visitmonmouth.com/oralhistory/bios/RificiJulia.htm http://www.visitmonmouth.com/oralhistory/bios/BryanAda.htm http://www.visitmonmouth.com/oralhistory/bios/CaplanIola.htm What violence rid the boardwalk of amusement rides? Literally, the elements. The violence of neglect. Again, bear in mind I was speaking of now mid-life adults who probably hadn't been to AP since the 60s. So to see up close the condition the Casino is in now, or the Palace was in six or seven years ago, must be in some cases very jarring (or violent). 40 years can seem like 40 seconds when it comes to memory. The mythical promised land, perhaps. But maybe some see in Asbury Park a chance to right finally get right what was for so long gotten wrong. What was that? Ensuring everyone in the city could benefit from, or (if they so wished) take advantage of, the city's natural and man-made resources, regardless of color, orientation or economic background. (Think about Ada Bryan's stories about the realtor and the ice cream vendor.) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: OMG - WTF - Again !
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i am a little obsessed with thinking of asbury as a place created with spiritual intentions. bradley moving beyond what he knew to create a place of spirit which simply opened up another set of human issues to deal with. The first broken promise. Go to NYTimes.com and enter Asbury Park's Pavilions into the search bar near the top. Click on the first result, dated June 4, 1894. Click on View Full Article and read the pdf. So much for John 13:34- 35. which is what always happens when we grow, learn and expand. i love to think of bradley and the sexual repression of the time when gay friends talk about all the sucking and f**king that went on all over the place in public in the desolate days...te hehehe. can you imagine what those people would think of ap being a gay community? delightful! You mean Bradley and his contemporaries? They'd probably be most offended by the booze. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: OMG - WTF - Again !
what is hanging in my mind is this idea of the promise that sandpiper pointed out to me, and my own lack of understanding about how people have mythologized this place, expect so many things from it etc. Well that's exactly it. Among outsiders, those who remember Asbury's glory days and wish for them to some day come back are doing just that - mythologizing. Baby boomers who spent their childhood summers in Asbury Park likely did so mostly on the boardwalk or the circuit, with the occasional foray onto the old Cookman. They were promised, via the chronological sleight-of-hand that is youth, that not only was Asbury Park a cotton-candy summertime fantasyland, but also that its status as such would last forever. They remember the technicolor images you see on the postcards for sale on eBay. The carousel and the tilt-a-whirl and the motorboats on Wesley Lake and the Skee-Ball and the ionized air of the bumper cars. But what 9 or 10 year old visitor in 1955 or 1960 was going to stop to consider what life west of Main Street must be like? What postcard ever featured the segregated entrances to the Bangs Avenue school? If the last memory of actually being in Asbury Park that outsiders have is of riding the carousel and playing skee- ball, and that represented a very happy time in their lives, then the realization that those rides and amusements disappeared in such a violent and un-fantasy-like manner will naturally inspire the wistful hope for the return of that fantasyland to some degree. The promise was broken. They want it fulfilled. I just can't understand being seemingly obsessed with ap's progress or lack of when you don't live here. to the point of brutal criticisms... I touched on this with Sharon a while back vis-a-vis New Orleans. You don't have to live someplace to either want desperately for it to succeed or to take delight in its failure. Asbury Park is, unwittingly, the figurative repository for all the hallmarks of the continuing great experiment that is America. Race, class, capitalism, aspirationalism, regionalism, crime, culture, government, etc. It's all there in one tiny square mile. is it some sort of spiritual seeking? some sort of quest/expectation...im not sure..but there is something seriously dysfunctional in expecting anything outside of ourselves for some sort of promised land. The mythical promised land, perhaps. But maybe some see in Asbury Park a chance to right finally get right what was for so long gotten wrong. One can argue interminably about the wisdom of such expectations or the chances of success. But certainly the desire is born not from malice. the obsession with ap is as wacked to me as the obsession with springsteen. don't get me wrong, i can still sing every word to thunder road, but i am not a teen anymore. hes just a singer. He'd probably be the first to agree with you. if you delight in the failure of this place or any otheryou are too sad for words. your lack of soul isn't asbury's problem. The money quote. Nice. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Students' Insights on AP and Holmdel Schools
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How about adding in an important piece: my mother worked in the school and my father was a truck driver... ( I think she said that) She had two parents in the house or so she implied and both appear to have been working parents. Can you place a $ value on that? ANd kids from Holmdel - well before ATT started to disppear - where did all the Bell, Lucent and T people live- a good majority. And Pur and lots of NYC commuters. Get AP an office tower. You hit the nail on the head, but if you build it, will they come? Which is to say, even if a company like ATT (or Google, or Pfizer, or what-have-you) were to build an office in AP, how many local parents would get jobs there? What about the single parents of kids in 1st grade at Bradley or Marshall now? Would the presence of an office tower automatically mean that those parents would be working there and, subsequently, more deeply involved in their kids' academic lives in seven years? Not that AP shouldn't be trying to lure companies to invest in town (I think we already discussed the potential for a tech corridor downtown in a thread a while back), but as you point out, there are some things you can't put a $ value on. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: OMG - WTF - Again !
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i find this need to see asbury as some sort of iconic town living up to its past interesting. I think Dan Wolf nails it pretty well here. Read the first four pages: http://www.amazon.com/gp/sitbv3/reader?ie=UTF8p=S00Fasin=1582345090 It's not the past, it's the promise. why can't it simply be a town of great music, delicious food, a fun place to drink, a safe place to spend money, a good place to have a business etc. No reason at all. in my experience it is those things right now. In your experience. Not in Nae's. Listen to what she has to say here at 0:50, particularly in regard to redevelopment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYYuJs_2tm0 i was chatting with a man with architect experience and as we had some wine at the bb we fantasized about what would look great along the BW. my first dream was an Alexander Calder like sculpture/bdg...off to the Whitney to see his Paris works. That would certainly beat a dog-doo-beige wastewater treatment plant. ;) i never thought i would be in the position of defending a developer, but i would like people to think about what it takes to open the number of businesses they are linked to, create the number of jobs in those businesses Straight up question here, because I really don't know. How many of those jobs went to Asbury Park residents, particularly teenagers or young adults without the transportation to get jobs in other towns? Maybe alot, in which case, hats off to MM. Again, I don't know, but it's worth examining. and deal with the politics, red tape and suspicious citizens, and the legacy of widespread corruption and decay. i don't see MM as any sort of Saviour, but lets be real...what would AP look like right now without them? about the bandstand...what are the *^ facts? why would there have been repair if it was doomed? i have asked this before. Fair point, but maybe that legacy of widespread corruption and decay is what's making some people so suspicious. too much already..but...it seems clear to me that the success of a community doesn't lie in the fulfilling of pet agendas of an individual or small group. asbury is not going to live or die based on shipping containers, a bandshell or if the water park is open this summer or next. each of us are going to have disappointments to our own ideals, but its not about us as individuals. True, but since Asbury Park is built out to the point where you can't ivite Toyota to build a factory there (a la rural Mississippi or Kentucky), nor can you go the sports stadium route (like they are on the site of an old brownfield in Harrison), the city is limited in how it can rev up its tax base while also creating new jobs. Condos may be able to do the former, but not so much the latter. Thus, reviving the service sector is a logical place on which to rest much of the city's fortunes. It already seems to be working along Cookman. As you reasonably asked, Why can't it simply be a town of great music, delicious food, a fun place to drink, a safe place to spend money, a good place to have a business etc? (to that I might add a decent place to raise a family, but that's a different thread for a different time...). It can be all those things, but only if enough people are convinced that it's the right place to spend their dollars, either as visitors or entrepreneurs. So while it is technically true that the city will not live or die on shipping containers or bandshells, there is still a fair debate to be had as to what effect those containers and that bandshell will have on visitors and investors. Will they think, as you do, that the containers are eclectic and inviting? Or, will they think, as Jack does, that they make the boardwalk look like a perpetual construction site? Will they think the loss of the bandshell is no big deal and stay for the food at the Salt Water Cafe? Or will they think, This place looks like Belmar. Why don't we just drive there? Beyond that, there is a component to the bandshell situation (and the organ, and the carousel, and Metropolitan, etc.) that is often either overlooked or derided. The quality of life in any town or city, particularly one trying to attract visitors by distinguishing itself from its competing neighbors (Belmar, Point, Seaside), is inarguably enhanced and enriched through its cultural artifacts. The cynics will point out that the bandshell is only 46 years old. Grand Central Terminal was only 62 when the Penn Central wanted to knock it down. That didn't stop Jackie Onassis from helping to lead the successful drive to save it, just as she had years earlier with Lafayette Square, and for the same reasons. So were Grand Central and Lafayette Square just Jackie's pet projects? Or did New York and D.C. benefit immeasurably from her (and Brendan Gill's and David Finley's) passion? Anybody can build a train
[AsburyPark] Re: Students' Insights on AP and Holmdel Schools
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Waiting for the smoke to clear in the economy. My idea, which brought up to the city (and will work on it) for the city hall site envisions getting an office developer to build a large building CONNECTED to a new transit center, underground parking and new city facilities (condo). City can partner with developer instead of selling the site. Tax benefits for transit center developments help pay the construction costs. Couple that with electrifying the NJ coast line and running more express trains.; When you say connected, do you mean through a corridor, like Gateway Center in Newark? And if so, wouldn't that mean less foot traffic on the street? I'd think you'd want more. That's a great idea though. I hope it happens and I hope, if it does, the station looks a little more like this: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3179/2676263826_6496dd4b80.jpg?v=0 and less like the shoebox that's stuck there now. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Students' Insights on AP and Holmdel Schools
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I really mean is that you would not have to walk over tracks or in inclement weather. Oh, okay. Like the underground walkway at Long Branch? That makes sense. http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3179/2676263826_6496dd4b80.jpg?v=0 very nice Dudley Square in Boston. It's a bus station, but I think the style could work for trains too. And it sorta reminds me of the Casino. :) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: OMG - WTF - Again !
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MM is getting away with it because nobody is putting pressure on them to explain what happened. That seems to be the common thread in many different frustrations and controversies. So whose responsibility is it to call them out? And whose responsibility is it to call THOSE people out for not calling MM out? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: OMG - WTF - Again !
Okay, but Jack's original post to which I was responding was complaining about (along with some aesthetic issues) the lack of adherence to agreements. He mentioned the bandshell. Apparently (according to Maureen's tape of the council meeting several weeks back) MM/Partners or some derivation thereof was supposed to, as part of the WRA, have at least started to restore the bandshell to working order by this summer. That hasn't happened and doesn't look like it ever will. So there's an example of a promise made and broken with, apparently, no explanation for the citizenry on whose behalf the city signed the WRA. I don't think this is about being ballsy with someone else's money. If in fact the economic downturn has caused a delay in construction, that's perfectly legitimate and understandable. But why can't the developer send a representative to the council meeting and explain to the council, with the citizenry listening, why that delay is happening and what the company is doing to address it? Instead, Werner asks a perfectly legitimate question and is rebuffed (by Sammett was it?) with some obfuscation about plans being supplanted and no visible effort on the part of the council to demand a public explanation from MM/Partners. Remember also that, unless I'm mistaken, the WRA doesn't stipulate that once all the pavilions and the Casino are rebuilt and making money that MM donate them all back to the city and leave town like some good Samaritan. Unlike an individual homeowner, this is a multimillion dollar company with dozens of develoments throughout the country. They're in town to make money - lots of it - for a very, very long time. And if they do, it will be because the city (again, on behalf of the citizenry) provided them that opportunity. So why doesn't MM/Partners show as much deference toward their hosts as the hosts have shown toward them? Everyone who lives or owns a business in Asbury Park has the right to expect the city council to hold MM/Partner accountable when it comes to signed agreements, regardless of whether they rent or own. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, obviously everyone is entitled to their opinion. And in some cases the suggestions are good. I'm just pointing out that i have noticed a trend on this board. Generally, the people who have put a lot of time and money into their homes in the town are cautiously optimistic while those who don't, do the most complaining. I think the group that has invested time and money realizes that things take time because they have experience with that in their own places. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hinge98@ wrote: So, because it's other people's money means it's ok to do sneaky things like eliminate a historic band shell, and allow ugly, pedestrian architecture. I didn't realize life was that simple and without accountability. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 dsher4@ wrote: Hey Jack, Buy an old house in AP and use your dollars to bring it back to its historical past. Its easier to have balls with someone else's money. Dan --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hinge98@ wrote: The city council, but it feels like they are under the MM spell. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sandpiper15 sandpiper15@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hinge98@ wrote: MM is getting away with it because nobody is putting pressure on them to explain what happened. That seems to be the common thread in many different frustrations and controversies. So whose responsibility is it to call them out? And whose responsibility is it to call THOSE people out for not calling MM out? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: OMG - WTF - Again !
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If its been slow due to shady dealings thats one thing. But if its simply red tape, financial situations, permits unplanned for I can understand that. Maybe it WAS shady dealings. Secret deals with coffee truck vendors and kicking dog walkers off a thoroughfare one doesn't own sounds pretty shady. I think in general, any leadership in government should always be questioned. And it would be great if citizens were willing to talk more freely and intelligently about decisions and people in power and not based on any personal affiliation or benefit. It would be great if governments fostered citizen participation...meetings filmed, documents easily accessible and free of charge (PDF). My concern about city dealings comes from being a NJ citizen all my life and witnessing some pretty mediocre behavior coming from the dais. Ultimately what is beginning to bother me more is not the behavior of leaders, but that of citizens. Long discussion, but we are basically trained to be unquestioning workers and consumers. its what our public education was created to do. You're right, which is why AP and the shore in general is ripe for an alternative press. The Ledger thinks Jersey ends at the Raritan, the Press has been utterly useless for ten years now, and the Coaster seems well-intentioned but not given to much in the way of investigative reporting. A weekly, like the City Paper in Philly or the Boston Phoenix, would give writers the opportunity to fully explain, magazine style, issues pertaining to a particular aspect of city life - so instead of just reporting what was discussed at a council meeting, the paper would give a complete background, like Maureen does as AsburyRadio.com, and really explain why this matters to the person reading, whether they're a doctor on Grand Ave. or a tattoo artist on Main. Find out whether its red tape or shadiness that's keeping things in limbo. Find out why so and so was indicted or why someone was suddenly fired for no apparent reason. Education, redevelopment, crime, social issues, health issues, everything could be covered. And then you round it out with arts coverage. Make it free so you can pump circulation to attract advertisers while also encouraging people who don't normally read the news to do so. They pick it 'cause Method Man's on the cover, but they keep reading and find out why MM missed YET another deadline and then maybe they get pissed off enough to go to the next council meeting. I know, another pipe dream. It can't hurt to imagine. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: On Asbury....
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The oldest and most significant historic element of Asbury Park is the City plan. The design and layout of the streets and public spaces form the framework, the defining character and feel, of the City. Open spaces, view corridors, parks, street arrangements, etc, all contribute to how a developed area is interpreted. History question for you, relating to that point. Why is it that the grid pattern covers about 3/4 of the city, but then between Heck, Ridge, Asbury and Prospect, things get more acute angled and Five Points looking. Why wasn't the pattern extended all the way out to Ridge? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: On Asbury....
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Tracy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My view as an outsider, a first-time visitor this past summer, with no previous knowledge of AP or its past/present (I usually go to South Jersey beaches): You needed something to fill in the blank spaces between buildings Well, you have to appreciate why those spaces were there in the first place. I may be completely off here, and Werner can fill in the engineering history if I am, but I've always been of the understanding that those spaces between the pavilions were very specifically designed to remain open and analogous to the flared ends of the east west streets. This was to facilitate both ocean views and air flow (in the days before air conditioning) for the many hotels that would stretch back a few blocks from the beach along each street http://flemingwhite.com/Historic%20Images/AsburyPark/Asbury%20Avenue.jp\ g . Even in the post-hotel age, both longtime residents and new condo dwellers might appreciate having something to look at from their front porches other than the back of a used Sea-Land box. This would be a marketing point for realtors and thus a very real concern if it's lost for good. I don't think you can turn your nose up at any reasonable opportunity to generate commercial activity on the BW if you want to attract visitors. Agreed, but I don't see nose-turning so much as disappointment in what, yet again, strikes some as a second-best approach in a town that has been dealing with second best for many many years. I probably wasn't looking in the right places, but we couldn't find breakfast within walking distance of the Berkeley (and their continental sucks). I will be curious to see how beach tourism does in the next few years, as the economy crashes. On one hand, it will attract people who used to drive/fly further away for vacations - more regional visitors. And you are on a train line, which should help. Will we be able to afford a few nights of the dubious Berkeley charm? We will see... The irony is remarkable. As you point out, the sinking economy means more folks will be taking vacations closer to home, if at all. And yes, Asbury Park is on a train line, which means people who either don't want to spend the gas $$$ or who don't even have a car (lots of folks in the NYC/Jersey City area) may still want to hop on a train to spend a few days on the beach. This SHOULD mean growing demand for affordable hotel rooms. And yet, in a town that used to have several dozen hotels as seen in the pic I linked above, you now have exactly TWO. One of them has, apparently, decided to brand itself as the party hotel, complete with waivers for the late night noise. Fine for some people, but not others who just want a decent, clean, quiet and affordable place to stay, either with their families or just themselves. That leaves only the Berkeley, which has been raked over the coals for its amenities and service, including above. Between your observations, Werner's experience trying to look at the wiring, and the reviews on Tripadvisor, it seems like the people running Berkeley know that they're the only game in town and figure why bother even trying? (I know the Tides just opened, but I can't find any rates on their Web site, so I don't know if they're affordable or more on the boutiquey end, like Mikell's. Either way, they really haven't established an identity yet the way the Berkeley has) This is where competition could really help Asbury Park. Imagine how much better the Berkeley would be if the Metropolitan were to be replaced by a brand new hotel with all the accoutrements and rooms starting at $80 a night, and the Esperanza were to become a new Monterey, with a rooftop swimming pool, 1st class conference facilities, and rooms at $90 to $200 in the summer and $60 to $170 in the winter. If the Berkeley's owner is indeed as financially solvent as suggested in Werner's post, he or she would have to spend the money to not only get the hotel's structure up to speed but also to train the staff in the fine art of customer service, including putting out a much better continental. Instead, the same financial crisis that could ostensibly create a demand for new hotel construction in AP also prevents such construction, leaving half-finished condos, empty lots with red dumpsters and lackadaisical lodging owners who charge 200 bucks in the winter for rooms that should only be 100 in the summer. AND you can't even get a decent breakfast! And were the economy to turn around enough to fund new hotel construction, those families and young professionals would probably go back to taking the plane to Disney World or Myrtle Beach. It's like living on a gold mine and you can't even find a pick axe. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings:
[AsburyPark] Re: On Asbury....
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't forget, real estate investment funds are one of the WORST perfomring sectors of the market I know. Again, the customers are there, but you just can't get the capital. It's like the whole needing-the-experience-so-you-can-get-the- job-in-order-to-gain-the-experience-to-qualify-for-the-job madness. AC is a whole different animal, and a cautionary note against investing the bulk of your resources into a tiny strip of land east of one thoroughfare. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: That Other Election
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sharon_b283 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, you don't know! In the 256 apartment dwelling I live in, many of the dyed in the wool Asbury Park residents have served either as council or some governing board, so your biased thinkig that renters or apartment dwellers don't have the interest of the City at heart, is erroneous! In this very building former Mayor Kramer lived on the 15th Floor with his Filipino Wife! Many police Officers still live here, Firemen and City workers. That's why I made sure to write this is all very unscientific, but might it be that property owners tend to be more compelled toward public service? I emphasize tend there. I'm sure there are plenty of apartment dwellers working for the city. I was hoping someone would fill in the factual blanks to my speculation and you did, so thank you for that. So what do you think is the best way to make sure all residents are equally represented in city government? Could a ward system work? Something else? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Wesley Lake Railings
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, arcman210 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: New topic... Asbury related. Wesley Lake railings. They're in. Hopefully they open the area for people to use. They put in similar railings (or maybe even the same exact kind) to the ones along the Hudson River in Jersey City and Hoboken, for those who are familiar with them. these kind: http://i.pbase.com/u8/hjsteed/large/37518959.041214027DowntownManhattanH udsonRiverPark.jpg Any opinions on these, since they're an Asbury Park issue? I personally think they're very nice, and much safer than the The Hudson River ones are very nice and do a lot to improve the aesthetic quality of the riverfront. They'll probably do the same for Wesley Lake. What is the pollution situation there these days? Weren't Asbury Park and Neptune supposed to enter into some mutual lake maintenance agreement? Did that ever happen? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: On Asbury....
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i never got the problem with the containers...it was a cheap and creative way to quickly put up income generating space and gave people an opportunity to have a small biz. you need to have cash coming in no? i doubt it stopped anyone from coming here. whoever complains about them needs to get over their sad ass selves. and i hope you are all as good looking as you want everything else to be. i hope they are here next summer. You raise good points about generating income, but I don't think that everyone who has a problem with the containers could fairly be described as sad assed. Impressions matter and shipping containers can't help but have a temporary, and thus incomplete, quality about them. They bear a striking resemblance to those trailers you see in the parking lots of schools that can't afford to expand to accommodate their bigger student populations. There is a doing the best we can quality that people associate with those trailers and some people might also associate that with the boardwalk containers. Now, after years of the boardwalk being a ghost town, yes, obviously anything that generates revenue is a step up. And you have a legitimate opinion about creativity and providing opportunities for small biz owners. But some people might look at the oceanfronts of the other towns nearby and legitimately ask, Why does Asbury Park's boardwalk have to be the one that looks like a permanent construction site? This doesn't make them sad assed. It just means they want the town they love to strive for what they see as the best rather than settling for doing the best we can. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: That Other Election
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre I can only think of two councilmembers from the Southwest side of Asbury Park in my lifetime. That's whey Asbury Park needs to go to a ward system, to allow one councilmember from each section of town. Ward systems were created exactly for places like Asbury Park where there are distinct neighborhoods. I hear what you're saying, but just to play devil's advocate here: Wouldn't that reinforce the balkanization of a town that shouldn't naturally have distinct neighborhoods? By that I mean the current division between east and west is a stubborn legacy of the Bradley era, when certain people were allowed to work near the ocean but not live there, yes? One might presume (erroneously perhaps?) that the city would want to move beyond that and work toward eliminating the stark demographic differences between each side of the tracks. Would cutting up a 1 square mile town into wards do that? Also, is there in fact a system, written or otherwise, that doesn't allow someone from the southwest portion of town to run for office? I just looked up each of the council members' addresses on WhitePages.com. They all live in the north end of town, where the properties are predominantly owner occupied houses. The south end of town trends a little more toward apartment complexes and rented houses, right? Might that have something to do with it? I don't know the details of each council member's living arrangements, obviously, so this is all very unscientific, but might it be that property owners tend to be more compelled toward public service? I emphasize tend there. I'm sure there are plenty of apartment dwellers working for the city. But it stands to reason that if you've taken out a mortgage and accepted the responsibility of property maintenance and the like, you're more inclined to invest your time and effort into city government. Whereas, if you're in an apartment that, particularly in this economy, you may have to leave at any moment and move to another town, you might not be as compelled to invest the time and effort required to run for office. Certainly the residents of the southwest side deserve equal representation, and from what I've read here and on Maureen's page, it seems like Keady and Johnson are both trying their best to provide that. Maybe someone who lives in that area can speak to that more in detail. But if a ward system was implemented, isn't it possible you might wind up with council members by default? e.g. Well, one of us has to do it, so, alright, vote for me, candidate A. But you wouldn't be getting a candidate as personally invested in the job as someone who ran with the idea of representing the WHOLE town, regardless of what street he or she lives on. Again, I don't really know. Just throwing that out there. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Taking advantage of new outlets???
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, arcman210 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... complete disregard for anything Asbury. http://www.premiumoutlets.com/outlets/attractions.asp?id=78 Actually, complete disregard for anything Monmouth County. Under Attractions, they've got only the Basie, Allaire and (in Middlesex) the State. That's it. No Algonquin in Manasquan, no Turkey Swamp in Freehold, no Raceway Park just over the line in Old Bridge. And, yeah, nothing in Asbury Park, OR Belmar (fishing?), Ocean Twp. (movies?), OR Oceanport. (Monmouth Park? Hello?) This seems to be the closest thing they have to contact info for nearby merchants wanting to arrange a promtional tie-in: http://www.premiumoutlets.com/traveltrade/incentive.shtml Maybe Allaire, the Basie and the State are the only ones who have called them up so far. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: That Other Election
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since Asbury has had demographic regions since its inception more than a century ago, there is no quick fix to integrating it now. No indeed. I'm just wondering aloud if a ward system would bring the slow trickle of integration to a complete stop. At least the ward system would give immediate results - citywide representation on the council. Also, wouldn't the first step toward getting rid of the balenization be to give the disadvantaged a voice in the government so they will have the power to effect change? Good points. The middle class runs every town. There's a middle class in Rumson??? ;) The rich are having too much fun to care, the poor dealing with too many problems to care. You're probably right on the former, but the latter seems to contradict itself. I would think the more problems you have, the more you care (about who might help fix them). The southwest of Asbury Park is the poorest neighborhood in the state. Is there a Web site where this was reported? Not doubting you, just curious about the research method. I know they chaired the Springwood Avenue Redevelopment Committee. Besides that what do you mean? That was a big part of it. Other efforts have been referenced here and there: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/message/22274 He (Keady)stuggles, for the little guy and the people on the west-side love him! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/message/22105 My dream scenario is to have job training here on the west side as part of it, Johnson said. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/message/20898 ..when crimes are committed the people who commit them are brought to justice, City Councilman Jim Keady said Monday night. I think that the people on the west side of town are also tired of this, and they're beginning to act... http://asburyradio.com/sleeping_giant_west_of_the_track.htm Nunn said Keady attended the funeral of the murdered Tylik Pugh and has been the only constant presence on the West Side. Admittedly, these two sites are my only sources for what's going in AP, so maybe the rest of the council has made efforts too that aren't getting recognized. If so, I hope they get posted more often here. But that's why I very puposefully used the verb seems, to underscore that this is only an impression. On the other hand, maybe a person from the west side who feels they don't have the connections or money to run city-wide so they get discouraged and don't get involved, decides that know that they can win they will get involved. Another good point, though I wonder what sort of connections the present council members had. I'm not in the loop, so if the answer seems obvious, forgive me. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: That Other Election
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sandpiper15 sandpiper15@ wrote: There's a middle class in Rumson??? ;) Go to a bar called Murphy's Suds Sawdust in Rumson. Look around and you will see you are in a working class section of Rumson. By the way it's the coolest bar I've ever been to. It's someone's basement of their home. Right in the middle of a totally residential street. Apparantly it was grandfathered in and the neighborhood build around it over the years. You learn something new every day. I'll have to check it out. The southwest of Asbury Park is the poorest neighborhood in the state. Is there a Web site where this was reported? Not doubting you, just curious about the research method. Good catch I meant to type County. Okay, that makes a little more sense. I don't mean anything sinister by connections. To run a successful campaign in any town, you need to build coalitions with differing neighborhoods. You need name recognition among all of them. Okay, well then you're talking shoe-leather. Hitting the bricks. Anyone on the west side could do that if they were so motivated, no? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Shut Up and Sing
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, arcman210 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I paid to go see him perform his music, not lecture me on how to vote. You can still wield the power of the purse, no? If you know going in that there's a good chance Bruce might spend a significant portion of the show talking politics, and you don't want to hear that, why buy the ticket? Imagine how many early Lenny Bruce fans stopped paying to see his gigs becuase he spent most of his later shows reading court transcripts instead of telling jokes. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Berkley (Carteret) Hotel
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, arcman210 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj wernerapnj@ wrote: The reviews at tripadvisor are not good. My experience dealing with the staff is not good. A shame since it could be a 1st class, classy place. Appears to be a sloppy patch job. Werner From being inside there, I can agree that the job done to BCH is a sloppy patch job. The lobby and foyer and ballrooms look very nice, although they never really looked bad before the takeover. The rooms are supposedly nicer inside, but alot still needs to be fixed. Then just step into one of the elevators... you feel like you are going to fall to your death. The outside is a disaster... the parking situation is a mess, the facade of the building is patched all over. The fact that there is a question of whats going on with the hotel just goes to show what kind of state its in... it was promised to be improved with $50million but it still looks like the same run down hotel it was before the new owners took over. Any way of telling how much of that is fallout from the credit crisis and how much is just half-assedness on the part of the owner? Also, Werner, if you don't mind my asking, what was the context of your interaction with the staff? e.g. Booking facilities, or just asking around as an interested neighbor? What specifically turned you off about the staff? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: 85% of Violence Crime Centered in 14 NJ Cities
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, radio881gal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In addressing drug violence and open air drug markets at yesterday's press conference, State Attorney General Anne Milgram said law enforcement tracking analysis shows that 85% of violent crime is concentrated in just 14 New Jersey towns. Asbury Park is 1 of the 14. The good news is that Milgram called AP's police department's recent gains against crime as nothing short of tremendous. The murder rate is down 67%, Robbery is down 20% and Robbery with a deadly weapon is down 45 percent. Milgram singled out Chief Mark Kinmon in particular for praise. You can hear all of Milgram's and Prosecutor Luis Valentin's exact words on Mp3 at asburyradio.com. Maureen As always, your multimedia talents are invaluable Maureen. Valentin mentioned that he's not only interested in the number of arrestees, but also the promising number of children that remain in school, graduate from school, and become models in the community. What kinds of concrete programs are in place to help ensure this? If I'm a 12 or 13-year old kid living on Washington Ave. and I look at that group of people in your pic of the press conference, I'm not seeing too many folks with whom I can relate, or to whom I can look up. Obviously a press conference isn't the sort of place to get into all of that, but I haven't seen much discussion on this board about the connection, or lack thereof, between the redevelopment along Cookman and the oceanfront and the city's young people. Part of being tough on crime is being effective. These gangs grow because of recruitment. Tim McLoone and Gary Mottola probably aren't walking down Washington or Prospect handing out job applications. The Bloods are. I know I'm simplifying here, but you get the point. Maybe there just isn't anyone on the board who can speak to this, but I'd be very interested to hear about what, if any, programs are in place in the way of mentoring, job training, academic counseling, etc. Has there been any outreach on the part of Partners/MM or the Cookman merchants to the young people of Asbury Park? Do the middle schools and the high school have people from the neighborhood who have thrived in the career world come back and talk to the kids about how they made it? I honestly don't know, but I'd be interested to hear if anyone does. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] The Kinmouth/Savoy
What's up with this place? Is the owner doing anything with it? Does the city have any interest in encouraging someone to do something with it? Seems like a perfect home for one of the new theater companies in the area, and much more amenable to a winter performance than a carousel house. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Full Rolling Stone Story
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If Russia ever came across the Straights, the Alaskan Guard would be the America's first line of defense. Thanks for being diligent, Baracuda. Some of us appreciate it. Well, part of the first line: http://www.uscg.mil/D17/ http://www.pacaf.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=3605 http://www.norad.mil/about/ANR.html (not commenting on Palin here. Just making an observation...) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: The Virginia Plan
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Relocation assistance is only required if the relocation is due to a governmental act - in this case eminent domain condemnation or due to the building being declared unfit for habitation by code officials. Absent that an owner may offer consideration to facilitate vacation of a building. Alright, but let's say the owner doesn't feel like it. (According to maubddny's post, the owner of the Jersey didn't feel like fixing his place up, so clearly not every landlord is driven by altruism). So he raises the rent to maximize profit, and you've got upward of two dozen or so law abiding residents out on the street after however many years of calling the Virginia home. Couldn't that engender some pretty raw feelings, along with potentially increasing the homeless population (given the economic climate). Worst case scenario, I realize, but worth considering, no? Going 'Green' would be the decission of the building owner, certainly it is technically possible. (again moot since it is to be torn down) Obviously I haven't pored through the city's building codes, but leaving that up to the owner sounds a little 1992. We're not talking spotted owls here. It's a health issue. Has the city discussed instituting some requirements in this regard for both building rehab and new construction? Unfortunately the Virginia (and the Jersey) are tied up in the very poor redevelopment deal made with Asbury Partners preventing the current owners from moving forward. Well, this whole thread spun off from the Fastlane thread by pointing out the illicit drug sales going on in the building and wondering what could be done about it. Does the redevelopment deal prevent the owners from enforcing the law within their own buildings? Kicking out residents who are convicted of even a drug misdemeanor? If not, and they just don't feel like doing anything about it, can't the zoning authority and/or police department exert some muscle there? Beyond that, hasn't Partners reneged on the redevelopment deal time and time again by missing several deadlines? What is keeping the city from saying You broke your end of the deal. It's off. Time to go back to the table. Was there some fine print in there that said party A could waver on some of the details but party B had to strictly adhere to ever line in the plan? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: What a strange place
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, New Beetoap [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A suggestion is made to demolish a building because 'bad people' are there - leading to name calling when someone says the idea should really be thought out more. (its not the buildings fault) With in all that, however, there was this rather lucid and worthwhile exchange: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/message/40256 Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: APP: Security Cameras
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sharon_b283 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hopefully, they'll catch the ones who bring the drugs into our community. Or, conversely, maybe they'll catch the customers coming in from the rest of the county. Illicit or not, narcotics are a commodity. There's no supply without a demand. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: The Virginia Plan
Another perfectly lucid post. This is good. So, to arcman's point about it being worthwhile to rehabilitate the Virginia only if you could raise the rents to market rate (I'm presuming from his post that they're not at the moment, but I don't honestly know), would you advocate returning that building to market rate status? And, if yes, what about Jack's point about moving all the people out? Presumably, that would include at least some folks not engaged in illicit activity but who couldn't afford the market rate. Where do they go and who is responsible for helping them find alternative housing? I'm also curious about arcman's point here: Elevators, corridor widths, ceiling heights, plumbing, electrical, fire protection, among countless other things would need to be replaced and retrofitted to meet codes and standards of luxury. Did the renderings to which you referred address those aspects? Who drew them up? Beyond that, it's been reported that both apartment and office buildings, particularly those constructed in the early 20th Century, have contributed at least as much, if not more, than automobiles to the total greehouse gas emissions in the United States. Would/could a rehab of the Virginia and/or Jersey include making them far more energy efficient so that they emit much less greenhouse gases (while also saving the owner a ton of $$$ on both heating and cooling costs)? BTW, hopefully it's obvious, but I'm not asking any of these questions out of a preconceived opinion. I don't know enough about the building to have one, so that's why I'm asking in the first place. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And several significant misrepresentations of rehabiltation are made. Buildings are rehabilitated and brought up to modern uses regularly. As evidences by the countless 100+ year old homes in the city brought back to life in recent years. The argument that 'old' can not be made viable holds no water based upon local and national trends. Unless a building has serious structural or environmental defects that are cost prohibitive to correct, a rehabilitation is certaily worth exploring. In regards to that block, the 3 buildings (Virginia, Jersey, Britwood), are significant representatives of a high point in the development of Asbury Park (roaring 20s). In fact, one has been restored/rehabed and is a viable ratable. another has the exterior restored but is prohibired from completion due to myopic planning. Both of those were vacant with caved in roofs and are now very nice architectural icons that benifit the community in esthetics and tax base. The Virgina is a great candidate for rehab also, renderings were prepared several years ago showing the restoration of the large porches/balconies that were removed years ago. Only poor planning and land use policies have prevented the improvement/rehab/restoration of the Virginia and Jersey. Werner Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: What a strange place
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and yes i know there are lots of lucid exchanges sandpiper, but you must admit that something that strays too much from the comfort zone is attacked... No argument there. I was just trying to steer things back to the discussion about buildings. ;) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Fwd: article in The Coaster: north end development
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The 1700 block of Ocean Avenue would be renamed North Ocean Avenue. I didn't even pick up on this before. Is there a reason for the name change? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: PodCasts and Reports on 9/17/08 Council Meeting
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The WRA always called for a meandering boardwalk and restoration of the dunes. I don;t know how long ago there were dunes. I read somewhere recently the opening from deal lake to the ocean was filled in well before the turn of the century. That is going to be an issue. The state still has a tidal claim on 75% of that area (Triangle) which has to be purchased from it. Dune restoration makes perfect sense, particularly in that end of town. We've all seen the flooding during a big storm. But restoring the dunes AND cramming a row of oversized townhouses in there is like cleaning Wesley Lake and building a paper mill on its banks. You're washing the baby in filthy bathwater. So the DEP still has to sign off on this? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: PodCasts and Reports on 9/17/08 Council Meeting
Kerry Butch pretty much nails it at 20:58 of tape 9. Question: Why is the boardwalk in front of Asbury Tower curved in that rendering? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: PodCasts and Reports on 9/17/08 Council Meeting
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, radio881gal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Sandpiper - That's not a boardwalk. It's the dune nature walk that will lie in the sand, unless that design has been changed. I came in late. But my last info was that it would lie in the sand and of course help to obscure the public from the townhouse residents. Thanks. I only called it a boardwalk because that's what it is labeled in that rendering on your site. But now I am wondering what happened to the actual boardwalk. That rendering makes it seem like the townhouses will abut the dunes. I'm looking at a Google satellite map of the neighborhood now and the boardwalk runs straight until the end that is parallel to Deal Lake Drive. There's about 80 feet or so of green space between Ocean Avenue and the boardwalk. Are they squeezing these townhouses into that 80 foot green space? Or are they just getting rid of the boardwalk completely? (Thanks again for posting these meetings. They're very enlightening.) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Fast Lane
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, asburyparknet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Saw workers tearing off the coming attractions sign and other things off the facade of the Fast Lane today. It was sad and I flashed back to something I saw there during my first tenure as an Asbury resident. The ex-g/f and I were walking her dog on Fourth Ave. when we happened upon three skinny, bottle-blond haired guys unloading amps and such from a beat-up woodie-type station wagon and into the Fast Lane. The next day, we heard on the great new wave N.Y. radio station WPIX- FM that we had missed the first area show by a hot new British band called The Police. Crap. The justification for tearing down the Palace and the Met was that they had deteriorated beyond repair. Clearly not the case at the Fastlane, so what excuse are they using now? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: True story about Sunday on the BW.
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The boardwalk and the pigeons are cursed. Bert would disagree. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoXX9bZrZXw [;)] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Fast Lane
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sandpiper15 sandpiper15@ wrote: Fastlane, so what excuse are they using now? A: Shea and Yankee stadium don't work any more either. And there's quite a bit more history or cool things that happened in both of those places. There's your answer. Yeah, but even the new stadium will still have Monument Park, along with Munson's locker I'm sure. So will there be a new Fastlane with the old memorabilia? Or another empty condo? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Fast Lane
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Really? We should pay homage to a warehouse? You want some nostalgic culture - make a donation to the Crane house. The Electric Factory was a warehouse too. This isn't about nostalgia, it's about developing a viable, longterm economic engine. Given the dearth of performance venues of that size along the shore, and given the club's name recognition both within the industry and among fans, a refurbished or even rebuilt Fastlane will likely bring more visitors (and their money) in to the city than a residential development - particularly in the present economy. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Pictures from my Visit this Past Weekend
I'm looking at the calendar on the heating plant and am impressed with the acts they've booked. Gym Class Heroes and the Roots will definitely sell out. Danity Kane probably too. Australian Pink Floyd won't, but it should still be crowded. They put on a great show, and their female singer out-Clare Torrys Clare Torry. Still scratching my head at the containers, but whatever. Those fountain shoes looked like they were in decent shape. And nice action shot of that surfer! Great photos as always dapawprint. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Cover Charges vs. Parking Meters
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If a bar can charge $10 with food or $12 w.out food as a cover for under 2 hours of music, why is it a sin for a city to charge .50 an hour to park. On top of the cover of course are drinks.food etc... It isn't. It IS, however, a sin for a bar to charge even 10 cents if the patron is already agreeing to purchase dinner - ESPECIALLY if the music lasts for less than two hours. To which bar are you referring, may I ask? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Cover Charges vs. Parking Meters
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i just don't think asbury needs to kiss ass to get people to come here. provide great food music and a safe beach of course, but it doesn't need to feel like it needs to beg for customers. just give good service. That seems to be a point in general agreement. The question isn't whether to charge, but how to do it right, which falls under the scope of good service. If the system is set up in such a way that it's impossible to pay for the night without multiple trips back to the car, any resulting ticket will naturally feel like entrapment. That will lose customers, and revenue, in the long run. some great NYC dj's would be amazing as well. A homegrown DJ scene would be even better. Saturdays at the Savoy. Get Jeannie Hopper to give 'em a shout out. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Music City....
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They all have to park somewhere. Loch Arbour? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: new to the group and more
Great Web site. I just sifted through it briefly and am already carving out the weekend of 10/11 to check out that blues competition at Paul's! You might want to come up with a more geographically specific URL, if only to show up more in Google searches. Maybe not. I'd never heard of it before, but I'll bookmark it now. As far as getting information together, you may just have to call up each venue/organization and develop a relationship with them so that they begin sending you information without prompting. Seems like the Chamber is a little too slow to be of much help. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Note to Paul Vail
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sandpiper said she didn't take it as an attack on the whole of Christianity, just certain brands and she went on to give examples of brands. Certain interpretations. I probably should have said practices. Brands was Mr. Vail's choice of word. I think Jennifer's post probably most accurately nails what I was trying to get at. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Note to Paul Vail
In fairness, there is nothing in the posted article that suggests to me, as a reader, Mr. Vail was fighting against Christianity. Here is the line to which I assume you were referring: The more we looked into it, it was clear this mission's larger aim was not to help poor struggling men, Vail said. They were looking to put people into their evangelical program to convert them to their brand of Christianity, and all the other men were to be discarded on the streets of Asbury. I took the phrase their brand of Christianity as an indictment of the Mission members' interpretation of a religion that, like all others, has long been interpreted by different people through different lenses for different purposes. i.e. Oscar Romero and Jerry Falwell arguably practiced different brands of the same religion. One could comment on each brand without necessarily commenting on the religion as a whole. Just my metered 2 cents. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Note to Paul Vail
In fairness, there is nothing in the posted article that suggests to me, as a reader, Mr. Vail was fighting against Christianity. Here is the line to which I assume you were referring: The more we looked into it, it was clear this mission's larger aim was not to help poor struggling men, Vail said. They were looking to put people into their evangelical program to convert them to their brand of Christianity, and all the other men were to be discarded on the streets of Asbury. I took the phrase their brand of Christianity as an indictment of the Mission members' interpretation of a religion that, like all others, has long been interpreted by different people through different lenses for different purposes. i.e. Oscar Romero and Jerry Falwell arguably practiced different brands of the same religion. One could comment on each brand without necessarily commenting on the religion as a whole. Just my metered 2 cents. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Obama Party in AP....
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sara Palin = oil, guns and babies. I think you just wrote their new campaign theme! Well, I went home with the Governor The way I always do How was I to know She was with the Russians, too I was gambling in Ohio I took a little risk Send oil, guns and babies Sarah, get me out of this. ;) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Obama Party in AP....
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sandpiper15 sandpiper15@ wrote: That's pretty funny! Did you write that? Nice job. Send my some more of that (by private email so we don't get banned by Big Brother Pete). Would that I were so talented. You can thank Mr. Zevon, an old Pony mainstay: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOX5hEQV_VM Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Why we are Screwed
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lets have a serious discussion of the economic state of the kingdom instead of how pretty things are and how much better it is from a year ago. Werner Just throwing this out there with the caveat that I haven't crunched or even looked at any numbers. Taking the oceanfront off the table, is there a viable way to plug up those fiscal gaps through mixed use development along Main, Asbury and Springwood? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Attainable Goal
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the best $19 ($21) with tip - cosmo and beer and view. Good god!!! How much are cosmos going for these days? Asbury - leave your inhibitions behind Too Vegasy Asbury - be who you want to be What if you want to be a self-absorbed jackass for whom using trash cans and parking within the lines are anathema? Asbury - forget the rest of world - come as you are... This is the best one, if a little long. Thoughts on the rest: 1. Asbury does NOT have enough viable commercial space to tie things together - you need that town square. Springwood and Prospect. (Crazy, I know, but a little faith and willingness to take a chance could make it work - and tie together a lot more than just commercial space.) 2. Close Cookman Ave from Grand to Main. Think South Beach and Lincoln Road. Thirty years ago it was nothing. Today - THE place to be. Huge umbrellas, street performers and THE town sqare - Press Plaza (change the name if you hate it...). Lake Ave gets utilized for better parking. I'd rahter see lake ave closed off - but that's the parking. Don't even remember if I posted about this but I've been thinking the same thing for years. The only thing about Miami worth emulating. (Press Plaza works because of the alliteration. New York kept Herald Square even after the paper folded. Just got to get someone to write a popular song about it.) 3. Shuttle services - someone with angle might WANT to start a service from the Outlet center to AP or OG. The outlet center might WANT TO do it from the Asbury Park Train Station 66 east, with stops at Prospect and Pine, to Main Street, make the right, stop at the train station, head east on Lake, with stops at Emory and Heck (the latter for Ocean Grovers coming over from the bridge), north on Ocean with stops at the Casino, 3rd Ave, 5th Ave., and 6th Ave. left on 7th to Grand, head south on Grand (with a nice view of the lake)till Asbury, make the right and back out to the Outlets. All hybrid-electric shuttles of course. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Just visited AP for the first time
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Tracy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi. I'm new to the list. My family just visited Asbury Park for the first time last weekend, and we liked it. I thought you might like to read my blog entry about the weekend. We showed up knowing nothing about the town except the association with Springsteen. (You'll have to forgive us, but he is not our favorite musician.) You may disagree with some of what I said, so I'd be interested in hearing discussion. --Tracy Well written and thoughtful blog entry. Your observations about the poor service, both at the cafe and the hotel, have been echoed elsewhere. Here's a thread about that from May: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/message/37692 $139 a night, even for a Double Queen, strikes me as exorbitant, but I haven't booked a hotel in a long time. If you found it to be a good value, that's cool. I see you were put off by some of the decor and lack of service - which is, again, discussed in the above thread. Wobbly pool railings is a safety issue and I'm surprised they haven't been cited for it. Maybe because it's not on a porch. (search the archives if you want the backstory). Love your phrase the dissonance of dysfunction visible beneath a veneer of newness. If you truly are a newbie, that speaks volumes. I see you're happy about the farmer's market in the carousel house. I'll chalk that up to your obvious bias toward produce. ;) The town could definitely use a farmer's market, but I'd argue closer to the west side of town so everyone can take advantage of it. I overheard people complaining to cops, who shrugged - city offices are not open on weekends. Bad move for a city trying to revive tourism. Again, volumes from a newbie. Your worries are all sound. I'd only disagree with your faith in condos. Keep posting! Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Complaints? Negativity?
Asbury Park's Cavern Club was the Student Prince. Maybe someone should open one that isn't the real Student Prince. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, lightgrw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Although they do go to Liverpool to visit the Cavern Club... which isn't the real Cavern Club. arcman210 wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com mailto:AsburyPark%40yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: Had lunch at Brickwall. Met a couple from the UK. They asked directions to the Pony. Big Bruce fans. They are staying in Manhattan but it was always in their plans to come here to see the Pony and the streets that Bruce walked. Golden opportunities are being mixed. It is an industry waiting to be capitalized.You do not even have to create it. Make the Pony part of a working music museum. If yoy ran things right you coud probsbly keep a hotel fully booked with foreign Bruce tourists. That being said, I highly doubt people like that would come to Asbury to see a relocated Stone Pony in a building like the casino. A hotel/restaurant/museum on the Stone Pony block would be an absolute score... packed with tourists and music enthusiasts all year round. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Complaints? Negativity?
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Those 49 properties might have already been built or rehabbed or they added on to. Much like the Casino, Carousel House, pavilions, Baronet or Fastlane, no? You just don't draw a pretty picture and then build it. I tried to knock down a house in OT that I've had for twenty years. Two meetings and I tried to wing it with the architecture and engineering all done. That alone cost me over $3k - drawings, engineering, fees etc - probably over $4k. They told me to come back again. Heck with it - the house has been there since 1875 and will stay there. I hear what you're saying, but that applies either to new construction or demolition. What about a situation like the Carousel House? Rather than tear it down, they've spent a significant amount of money refurbishing it, only to stick a farmer's market in there. What kind of zoning and approval hurdles could they possibly face to reinstall what was already there for years and years? (And if there are any, then shame on the city. I don't know what that place is zoned for this week, but common sense says do everything you can to get a working ride back in there - not for nostalgia's sake but as part of a long term economic investment.) Or the 5th Avenue Pavilion? The seats were still on top when they acquired the property, no? All they had to do was scrub them down and, maybe, refinish them. What possible zoning hurdle could have forced them to rip the seats out and supplant what the people of AP thought they were going to get according to signed agreements? Isn't that a band performing up there in this concept drawing?: http://www.conventionhall.net/initiative/05.html The Baronet? It's a perfectly fine working theater. Let the proprieter continue to operate it unless or until they come up with a better plan - rather than letting it languish there for no justifiable reason. Again, how could engineering and approval fees play into this? It's already engineered and approved. Just get out of the way let it work. Everyone can dig that you don't just draw pretty pictures and build something. I think people are willing to wait for the eastern portion of the Casino, or the residential construction, and even the rehab of the other pavilions. But pre-existing structures that are ready for use don't need pretty pictures. They need people to stop fixing what ain't broke, get the hell out of the way, and let these places come back to life. Wouldn't shifting operational responsibility to someone else free MM up that much more to focus on the approvals process for the rest of their projects? Fair or not, there is a perception of selective unprofessionalism on MM's part (not at all improved by anecdotes of geographic snobbery and backroom deals with coffee truck owners). They've got A-Rod assets but they're handling some of these easy plays like George Plimpton. If Convention Hall and the Paramount were Reggie's three homers in '77, the 5th Ave. pavilion and the Carousel House are Buckner's bungle in '86. I'm no real estate expert, but it's hard to believe this is all regulatory in nature. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Complaints? Negativity?
Good points. Can one really equate Madison Marquette with an individual home builder though? The company has 49 properties and 23 million sq feet of retail space throughout the United States. That's 49 sets of concept plans. 49 sets of meeting after meeting with engineers and architects. 49 sets of meetings with lawyers. 49 arduous approval processes. They're not amateurs. They've done this before. Their goal is profit, not charity. As such, is it wrong to hold them to a higher standard? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, New Beetoap newbeetoap@ wrote: AP, and most towns are not easy to work any longer. NEW construction is tougher then rehabbing. You can sit here and argue that they should of had more people working to get it done etc etc. But maybe the plans are changing as they go as to what should happen. Maybe, maybe not. Over the past just couple years, there have been many concept plans drawn up - these costs tens of thousands of dollars. It's not you or me doodling on paper (although I'm pretty good...) saying wouldn't it be cool if all those doodles they present cost $. They're done to meet code, present a what if we CAN do this, maximize land value. Meeting with an engineer and architect is almost as painful as meeting with a lawyer. Then again, the laywers alwyas have their ideas and want to meet with the engineers. Some even like to meet with the architects It's not cheap what Partners and MM is going through. Again, look at all the concept plans to date. You know what it cost to get an approval for a house. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Misleading info in the brochure....
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Area attractions: The Stone Poney, The Boardwalk, AND The Asbury Amusement Factory and (get this), the 8th Ave Jetty. (no lie, read it yourself). I was always more impressed with the CH Jetty. Maybe these guys should head from Washington. Later, I'm going to see the Jetty. Two years later and they still haven't fixed it: http://www.madisonmarquette.com/files/Asbury.pdf Also, how did DeVito make AP his summer retreat if he lived there? Retreat would indicate going someplace away from where you live. Same with Nicholson (or does driving across the tracks count as retreating?) Also, apparently no one ever heard of Asbury Park until 1975, when Springsteen put it on the map. (Poor AP, languishing in obscurity for 100 years. ;) Dare I mention the album actually came out in '73?) The character and history of Asbury Park will be preserved.. it says on top of page 3. How can you preserve something you don't even know? (I AM stoked to see that jetty though. That must be one amazing set of rocks!) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Palace .v. SaveTillie
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You would not beleive the back-stabbing that went on. Yes I would. Easily. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Style Rocket: Re: Boardwalk is magic tonight
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's the difference between $184 shorts and $4.25 for a dog, $4.00 for fries and $3.00 for a soda - or $6.00 for a corona?? Five years from now, that Corona will still be in style. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Boardwalk is magic tonight
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sharon_b283 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Only GOOD people think of things like this. You don't even have to be good to be smart. A cynical and devious entrepreneur could see the capitalist slam-dunk in this. It's called playing chess instead of checkers. I guess certain Presidents of Property Investments just don't want to hear any ideas they didn't come up with themselves. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Boardwalk is magic tonight
You both have valid points. There is nothing wrong with appealing to a wealthier clientele with one or two stores. (remember the Japanese High Art http://library.duke.edu/digitalcollections/images/eaa/M/M01/M0126/M0126\ -lrg.jpeg store on the boardwalk from 1920?) And spending money locally instead of in Freehold is a good thing. Let the market work. If there's no customer base, the store will fold and someone else will give it a shot. At the same time, smart development demands a mix of stores so not-so-wealthy people can treat themselves or their families to something too (hot dogs, pizza, $10 Tillie face T-Shirts, beach chairs that DON'T fall apart at the end of the season ;) Giving the working class a reason to feel conected to the new Asbury Park is also a very good thing. It's not chi-chi versus hicks. It's just a healthy mix of tourists with money willing to part with it and locals who also want to enjoy the ocean without forking over their life's savings. Get it right and everyone wins. The locals should guard against economic gerrymandering. What you don't want is to slip into the us vs. them mindset that's apparently already infected http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/message/38419 the local music scene http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/message/37572 . Believe me, I cheered along with everyone else when the Bennies Go Home boat sailed past the beach every Labor Day. But there IS a reason they waited till Labor Day. We may have rolled our eyes at the hand that fed us, but we never really bit it. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sharon_b283 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark, Speak for yourself! Whoops, I forgot; You have! I think everyone meant, affordable! If you can afford $184.00 for a pair of shorts, Bully for you! What I'm getting is, you think WE have a hick mentality. You know, the hicks from Asbury? You probably look down your NYC nose, at us, too! Well, we Jerseyans, KNOW what appeals to boardwalkers; fun, food and entertainment. Yeah, throw in a few souvenirs, too. Cha-chi stuff, that you MODERN, HIGH END, New Yorkers LOVE! Watch it, I'm married to a Staten Islander and the only thing that makes them move off that place, is a better life in Jersey! --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Mark Mark mark07712@ wrote: I bought 2 pairs of shorts at style rocket and a t-shirt to go along with it. My friends have also bought clothes there. It's nice to have the option to buy designer clothes in AP. It's easier than driving out to Nordstrom¢s at Freehold Mall and cheaper than going into The City to get clothes and since there is no tax it's a no brainer. If you don't like the prices, there is a Marshalls up the road. Don¢t forget there are a lot of NYC people living here on weekends. Everything doesn¢t always have to revolve around being cheap. There are a lot of us living in Asbury who do have money to spend on trendy clothes.
[AsburyPark] Re: Boardwalk is magic tonight
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Unbeleivable that it was destroyed and all hail the saving of a concrete block wall with a grinning face. Well, no one would argue that any good came from destroying the Palace. But just to play devil's advocate, the effort to Save Tillie may be born out of the same human emotion that compels the preservation of chunks of the Berlin Wall. I'm not making any comparison to the histories behind the two structures, obviously. What I am saying is that those who have preserved the pieces of the Wall see the graffiti and pock marks from rocks and bullets as a visual reminder of the resistance to what the Wall represented. It's a monument to the good fight. Locally, even when the rest of Asbury Park was falling apart, Tillie stood silently over the city as a rallying point to those fighting the good fight. (I know you have a much different angle on this, but bear with me...) So now that the Palace is gone, those who fought to save it want to hold on to the most visually inspiring piece of that resistance. Not saying it's a smart way to spend money. But I understand the emotion that compels it. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: DEP Equivocating on Oceanfront Parking
First of all, good for you for following up on this. I have a feeling the bigger fish to fry mindset makes people forget that AP is indeed on the Atlantic Ocean. This stuff matters big time. Second of all... ...However, Hershey made it clear that DEP did not acknowledge that a dune had been bulldozed. Ms. Hershey made a point of noting that crab grass had occupied that land before, not dune grass... Ummm...yeah, and people used to dump garbage right into the ocean back in the 1800s. Are you freaking kidding me?? This woman actually said that with a straight face??? (Actually, she was on the phone. Maybe she was stifling laughter like a 3rd grader while she was saying that.) Yeah, no kidding crab grass occupied the land before. That's the case in a lot of shore towns. So the hell what? At one point, enough people wised up to the fact that relying on crab grass to protect housing and commercial spaces from storm after storm wasn't working, so they constructed dunes. Get with the program Hershey! ..But there's also nothing good about having car engine oil and other fluids dripping into the ocean either... No kidding - particularly at a time when AP's trying to rebrand itself as an oceanfront destination (i.e. place to go swimming) again. ...(We 've never understood how the diehard fishermen justify destroying dunes to park their trucks while they fish and most likely grumble about the dirty water and poor catches.)... I can't even tell you how many times I've taken a party boat out of Belmar and seen the captain or first mate cut up a customer's tangled line and chuck it right into the water like it's no big deal. It was only my desire to get back to shore that kept me from socking the SOB right on the nose. Expecting fishermen to act in their best economic interests will never cease to bring disappointment. ...When I asked who was authorized to discuss the city's CAFRA permit with the press, Ms. Hershey again asked for this officer's name. Ms. Hershey could not pin point the person in the DEP's press office knowledgeable enough to discuss this 5 year old plan... I'd start with DEP Assistant Commisioner Mark Mauriello at 609-292- 1932. Beyond that, this shouldn't even be a DEP issue. If this is a Green Acres lot, doesn't that mean the state gave money to Asbury Park to acquire the land for permanent open space? It is still city-owned land, no? I can't for the life of me find the city's municipal code online. But I have to believe - no wait - I would LIKE to believe that, much like every other oceanfront town with dunes, Asbury Park has a written and enforceable code governing tresspassing in these areas - like this one http://www.e-codes.generalcode.com/codebook_frameset.asp?t=gsrindex=21\ 00_Arequest=dune%20areasfuzzy=fuzziness=4stemming=phonic=natlang=\ maxfiles=999 or this one http://www.e-codes.generalcode.com/codebook_frameset.asp?t=gsrindex=16\ 43_Arequest=dune%20areasfuzzy=fuzziness=4stemming=phonic=natlang=\ maxfiles=999 . If yes, shouldn't there be a patrol car at the entrance to this lot with a friendly patrolman leaning against the side and letting everyone know, Texas Ranger style, in no uncertain terms, that tresspassing on that dune, be it on foot or wheel, is STRICTLY forbidden? Seriously, enough already with the Trenton bureacracy. Those trucks need to go, like yesterday.
[AsburyPark] Re: So if it's Pizza you want...
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - wnew concert our second spin on the bw on no pizza - my buddies from attillos supplied me with about 100 pies and over 100 subs- sold out real fast Reminds me of my days at the Domino's on 35 in Wall. Every Saturday we made at least 7 or 8 trips to Wall Stadium with a station wagon filled to the brim with pies. I don't know whether no one had the inclination to open a shack at the stadium or the powers that be just kept it from happening, but we made a killing during every race night. I can imagine that store took a small but measurable hit when the track closed. - people would bitch when you ask them for 10 cents for a cup of water, today $3.00 for a bottle and no one bitches.. Speak for yourself. ;) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Boardwalk is magic tonight
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ha. Think about it. It's sitting there just being ugly. Make it into a mini golf with a construction theme, or a paintball place. Or, maybe get the artist that did The Gates in NYC to come wrap it in something. Most of all, just tear the piece of crap down and plant some grass. Or turn it into a full sized hotel. Have a picture window ballroom overlooking the ocean to host conferences and weddings at full rate but host the APHS prom for free as a goodwill gesture. Run a place-to-be-seen restaurant inside. Class up the corridors with pictures like these http://flemingwhite.com/historic_images_asbury_park.htm on the walls. Build the pool they were going to anyway on the lower roof, but make it Olympic sized. Make it energy efficient and wifi capable. Most of all, provide lodging to the crowds who would ostensibly be filling the boardwalk for the events at the Paramount, CH and the rebuilt Casino, as well as jobs (and a sense of personal connection to the redevelopment) to local kids and tax revenue to the city. Or something.
[AsburyPark] Re: Boardwalk is magic tonight
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would it be too much to ask for just one arcade. Something cool, with old school Skee Ball. Something with a retro design, not modern. There used to be a building at the east end of Wesley Lake that had something like that. Oh, wait... Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Insult to Injury - Bruce's car goes there
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, jennanna13 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh boy- Do we really think that a ANOTHER rock and roll museum is needed in Asbury Park? Wouldn't it be cooler to recreate another great time in Asbury Park instead of continuing to live in the past and talk about it over and over again..It seems to be as bad as making the stone pony a theme restaurant.. Wouldnt you rather have a theater that was used for cultural events like burlesque, theater, spoken word, that would bring a more refined taste...maybe, just maybe??? There is room for both, no? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Organ - AC .v. AP
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Asbury Park undoubtedly suffered the same fate... Nothing that eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/Pipe-Organ-Relay-Box-For-6-Ranks-of-Pipes_W0QQitemZ\ 110278362949QQihZ001QQcategoryZ16219QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewIte\ m and a little elbow grease http://www.lagondaweddingcars.co.uk/restoration.htm can't solve.
[AsburyPark] Re: Insult to Injury - Bruce's car goes there
For those of you who dont know what I'm talking about: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/2351384725/sizes/o/ Good lord. Why don't they just replace the Stone Pony sign with one that says Hunka Bunka and be done with it already? (Come to think of it, that's likely the precise reaction they're trying to elicit.) As to Charlie's point about the Pony never being high end - True, but there is a difference between divey and schlocky. Think Plum Street vs. D'Jais. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Dylan last night
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, arcman210 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That was my first concert at Convention Hall and it was just a great time. The sound was muffled and echoed a bit, but from what I was told last night by someone from Live Nation, they are going to look into spending alot of money to fix that. Also was told the renovations to CH and the Paramount will continue on as they've already poured millions upon millions of dollars into the venues and they want to finish the job. It's good that they want to finish the job, but the specter of them fixing CH's acoustics is a little concerning. I was under the understanding that they were rebuilding the Casino's western portion. Since the entire structure was demolished, and any historic significance along with it, shouldn't they rebuild it in such a way as to be able to hold these sorts of concerts? From what I can recall, CH was never built for these heavily amplified concerts and the noise (going back to the 50s) has done a hatchet job on the plaster, moldings and beams. Why not reinforce the Casino to withstand the noise from loud rock (and metal and hip hop) concerts and use Convention Hall for, I don't know, conventions? (P.S. This wouldn't be the same as moving the Pony to the Casino. That's a nightclub, not an arena, and it should remain where it is.) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Dylan last night
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are many solutions to cut down on reflections in a space such as CH. The basic principle involves cutting down on parallel surfaces, which CH is full of. All of the upper walls would need acoustic dampeners, and the ceiling would need things that look like pillows suspended from them. All of these materials have to be fireproof. What is the difference between dampeners and the wood squares you see on the ceilings of places like Carnegie Hall or Lincoln Center? Same concept? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Insult to Injury - Bruce's car goes there
Cleveland's role in the commercial growth of the music aside, no one could genuinely argue that any city in the U.S. is more indispensible to Rock and Roll than Memphis - another city desperately in need of an economic shot in the arm. So where do they put the annex? Hollywood East, just six stops south of Mr. Wenner's offices. How convenient. But what to expect from an institution that thinks Madonna was a key player in the history of the genre yet never seems to have heard of Wanda Jackson? The lesson for Asbury Park is to not put too much stock in Halls of Fame. A straight ahead music museum, a la STAX, however, would be perfect for the L lot around the Pony. Let SoHo have his Chevy. Hold out for the Harley! ;) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Red Bank Considers ban on Plastic Bags...can Asbury be next?
Interesting. On the one hand, towns of all shapes and sizes throughout New Jersey have long been besieged by errant plastic bags. They seem to have a particular affinity for property fences and the brush near creeks and rivers. On the other hand, would banning plastic bags be punishing store owners for the sins of their sloppy customers? From a cost-benefit analysis, it would seem to behoove stores to voluntarily cease handing out plastic bags. That stuff has to be a sizable chunk of any store's expenditure budget. If the answer is that customers would complain about the convenience factor, you need only look at gas stations. Not long ago it was taken for granted that at least two, if not more, guys would come out and not only fill your tank but wash your windows and check the oil and tire pressure. Now people from other states actually complain that they can't fill their own tank. And when was the last time anyone washed your window? Canvas bags could catch on quick. I don't know what the plastic bag situation is in Asbury Park, but if it's bad, some kind of action might be worth considering. BTW, anyone else appreciate the irony of someone named DuPont leading the charge against plastics? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: This weekend's pictures
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, njshoregirlap [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Re: Shipping containersYour comment describes them well: schlocky and lack of permanence. I did do some research on other cities use of containers as store fronts. NYC has a Japanese retailer who operates out of a container, as well as a shop in Montreal. As I was advised by a member, Xanadu has a similar style. Well, not to belabor the obvious, but Asbury Park isn't New York or Montreal, nor is it even Route 3. When a tourist visits New York or Montreal, they expect funky, wild, potentially garish uses of non- traditional materials. But even in those cities, tourists expect to see funky, wild, and potentially garish in certain neighborhoods, not on Strivers Row or in Old Montreal. Both cities cover hundreds of square miles and both have enough room to fit both the edgy and the historic. In one square mile Asbury Park, shipping containers on the most popular pedestrian thoroughfare in town will have a much greater aesthetic (and economic) impact on the city as a whole than containers on an abandoned wharf or in a Brooklyn parking lot. This is mearly a comment on design. I would argue it's also a comment on sensitivity and recognition. If, in fact, the developers are pointing to those cities and other metropolitan areas as justification, it shows a disconnect between the trendiness encouraged in architecture school and the reality on the ground. Several years ago, wasn't the old line in favor of the condos It works in Miami? Well, Asbury Park isn't Miami. It's not NYC or Montreal. It's not even Santa Monica. MM and the Partners really need to spend more time not just walking up and down Asbury Park's boardwalk, but also on other towns' boardwalks, to see what works and what doesn't. They need to not just accept, but embrace, the very un-metropolitan look and feel (and allure) of coastal Monmouth County. They need to closely study the history of Asbury Park's architecture with an eye toward scale and density. The 5th Avenue Pavilion is a perfect example of something that was doubtless edgy when it debuted (still is, in a way), but never felt temporary. Asbury Park has endured several half-assed projects over the past 25 years (Maharishi at the Berkeley, skate park in the Casino, Vinyl) After all that time, and with all the recent accomplishments, the citizens and other investors deserve better. I respect those who are taking the opportunity to open a business on the bw for a reasonable price...I just think that another form of structure would be better suited for the facade of the boardwalk. Not a minority opinion, I'd bet. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: This is what a tourist would want ....
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, New Beetoap [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It would have been great for my weekend visit if there were lockers someplace. Like in the bus and train stations of nyc. Great idea as a start if showers and changing rooms are not in the plans right now. Give it time. Eventually they'll come back to the future. CROWDS AT POPULAR ASBURY PARK; Many Improvements Made by the City and Private Property Owners - Special To The New York Times; June 23, 1907 ...Thousands of dollars have been spent by the city since last season in beachfront improvements and another small fortune is expected in the near future. The most notable improvements are the two groups of two-story bathouses at Third and Fourth Avenues. There are several hundred rooms in the two groups, each section being fitted up with modern showers and other bathng requisites.
[AsburyPark] Re: Behind the Blue Screen at Roadtrip 7
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dapawprint [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Host Hotel was The Berkeley, I assume there were similar taxes collected there. I may have missed this, but was there ever a reason given for lopping off the Carteret? It's sonically akin to chopping off the Chateau from the Marmont. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: This weekend's pictures
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dapawprint [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have uploaded them to Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dapaw Great pics and it's nice to see the beach so crowded. I'm curious how folks feel about that big blue screen that, according to your caption, was put up so people who didn't pay to get into the party couldn't see. Did it cover just the area of the dance party? Or was it up all the way between CH and the Casino? Or even halfway? I guess if it was just cordoning off a few dozen feet that's okay, but it wouldn't send the best message if they start limiting the view of the Atlantic to the privileged few. But again, the crowds were good. Are those wood boards on top of the oceanside wall of the First Avenue Pavilion going to become anything? I hope they're not sticking a permanent bus shelter type overhang there. Retractable awnings would be better. Corazza needs a more lively color too. Maybe aquamarine for the Blue Bishops? It's cool to see the pride flags on the boardwalk. Does MM plan to put other flags up throughout the season? Like these state and American flags http://www.asburyboardwalk.com/cards/asburyparkmarine.jpg the city used to fly there? Or maybe flags of different nations during the Olympics? Might be nice. Re: The shipping containers. I love a good Cuban sandwich (Zafra in Hoboken...m). But all the fake palm trees and colorful umbrellas in the world won't make these things look any less temporary and, thus, schlocky. There's been talk of reviving the Circuit. Wouldn't putting some of these businesses on Kingsley go a long way toward that end? They tore down the Flamingo anyway. They have the space. And what's going on with that blue shack behind the Pony that's been falling in on itself for 30 years? These businesses could occupy those spaces, you get the ratables plus foot traffic a block back, and you wouldn't lose the sightlines or airflow from the boardwalk. But so as not to end on a downer, the Beach Bar looks very nice and it's heartening to see so many people and so many businesses in the CH arcade. Reminds me of the old classic car and boat shows there. (hopefully they'll bring those back. Along with the organ concerts http://www.ogcma.org/pages/organrecitals ! [;)] ) And that sandcastle workshop was a great idea. Anybody go to that? Any pics of the results? Good to see the volleyball nets up too. With Belmar seemingly intent on alienating its traditional revenue base http://www.newsday.com/news/local/newyork/am-jersey0718,0,1256772.story\ , maybe the AP Chamber of Commerce could start writing some friendly letters to the AVP http://web.avp.com/events/index.jsp?eventId=1027 . Just a thought. Finally, you better be careful. With all the folks clamoring to see the guy with the duck, D-For could become the new Tillie! ;)
[AsburyPark] Re: Help Need with ReVision's productions of HAIR.
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Tom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We were attracted to producing HAIR in the Carousel building because we knew the space would add to our unique vision. Yet another reason to restore the Pryor bandshell. Imagine it...Hamlet at HoJo's! Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Help Need with ReVision's productions of HAIR.
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm wondering why this isn't more of an uproar about the current situation with the bandshell. Actually, if you click here http://www.asburyradio.com/audio/PublicComment070208_007.mp3 and FF to 12:18, I think you'll find the response to Werner's very articulate and well-founded question regarding the bandshell to be quite uproarious - in a Marxian sort of way. (That's in every contract. That's what they call a sanity clause. - Ha! You can't fool me. There ain't no Sanity Claus.)
[AsburyPark] Re: Unique vs. strip mall
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I also wonder why when something unique is planned like having a theatre presentation in the carousel building , nobody mentions it as non-conformist, anti strip mall type thinking. Now i know the retort could be, BECAUSE IT IS A CAROUSEL DUMMY and should house big wooden horses with kids whirling around. I'm not sure what all the answers are but i do applaud the attempt by MM to think outside the box. So far i have seen non strip-mall tendencies but only time will tell Perhaps folks would be more excited if they were putting on this show http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/7941/caouselalbumcoverfixed0ns.jpg instead. [B-)]
[AsburyPark] Re: Asbury Park Metal Container Shops
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, njshoregirlap [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am a City Planner by education. I took many classes on Architecture and Urban Design . They dot the vacant spots between the pavillions (which are looking great by the way) As a city planner what are your thoughts on having anything in those spaces, regardless of how they look? I'm sure you know the history and reasoning behind the flared streets between Ocean and Kingsley that correspond to those spaces. Is it worth it lose that air flow and those sightlines in order to gain whatever rent they're making on those containers? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Why AP is coming back.
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, jandlinap [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and noone wants to say that its the people who have in recent years made an investment in buying homes... its those that have gone to the downtown...and made an investment. Actually, both on this board and among those I know who have spent time there in the last 5 years, it's often been said downtown was the only thing moving when everything else was stagnant. And a quick drive through town illustrated the night and day difference between the amazingly renovated homes between Kingsley and Main and the permanent construction site by the beach. You're 100 percent right on your points but I think more people agree with you than you imagine. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Bennies cede valuable Monmouth to SNJ. Hoagie or Sub?
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Mario [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wawa stores dot the South, while North Jersey folks get their caffeine at a 7-11. Proof positive that the dividing line is really 18th Avenue in Belmar. ;) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Hi - Questions
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --5th ave pav 1979 http://www.asburyboardwalk.com/cards/5th-Ave-1979.gif Three things stand out in that photo. First, the detrioration already evident (above the garage door) on what was then only an 18-year-old building. A reminder of the forces of salt water that one hopes MM is keeping in mind. Two, the advertisements above the entrance to the arcade, which I remember well. Half of them were for Merv Griffin's Resorts as I recall. Three, look at the calendar at Convention Hall. July 7 - Sept 1: Municipal Band Concerts. Only in Asbury Park. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Hi - Questions
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the principals of the Plan are regularly violated. Don't you mean supplanted? ;) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
