Re: [aus-soaring] Re: Multi-Class Team Feed back

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Not all GFA members have access to the internet, but they 
do get, and rely on, the "magazine".
Thank you Ms Renner for your contribution in the 
"magazine", which I appreciated very much.
Especially your acknowledgment of the existence of Murphy 
:-)
 
Christopher Mc Donnell

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Miles 
  Gore-Brown 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Cc: Paul Matthews 
  Sent: Wednesday, 3 July 2002 9:40 
PM
  Subject: [aus-soaring] Re: Multi-Class 
  Team Feed back
  
  This is in reply to a couple of entries on this forum re the 
  feedback from the Multi-Class Team that went to South Africa.
  I would like to pass on that throughout the competition the 
  Team Members and the Team Manager did a considerable amount of work to supply 
  very detailed daily reports on the events at the Championships.
  These reports were available on the GFA Web site. I also 
  recall some of these reports were also posted on this forum.
  I would like to add that this forum is not the only 
  communication network related to Gliding in Australia, there is allot 
  happening on the GFA web site.
  Regards Miles 
Gore-Brown

Re: [aus-soaring] accident report

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Add me to the thank you list Harry.

Christopher Mc Donnell

- Original Message -
From: "ANDREW WRIGHT" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, 4 July 2002 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: [aus-soaring] accident report


> I too would like thank Harry for being so candid and honest with the
> details of his accident.  As a result of reading Harry's chilling report I
have
> promised myself to double my efforts to look-out when flying.  Especially
to
> look as far around into the proposed turn as I can "before" I turn.
>
> "A very commendable effort Harry !"
>
> >
> > Thanks Harry.  There should indeed be a wider publishing of incidents
> > so we can all learn.  I certainly appreciate your contribution though
> > I realise it is not a comfortable thing to do.
> >
> > regards,
> >
> >
> > John Ashford
> > Field Superintendent, Alice Springs
> > Northern Australia Business Unit
> > Santos Ltd
> > Brewer Rd
> > Brewer Estate
> > Alice Springs 0870
> >
> >
> > Ph 08 8952 5700
> > Fax 08 8952 5978
> > Mob 0409 679 867
> >
> >
> > Santos Ltd A.B.N. 80 007 550 923
> > Disclaimer: The information contained
> > in this email is intended only for the use of the
> > person(s) to whom it is
> > addressed and may be confidential or contain
> > privileged information. If
> > you are not the intended recipient you are hereby
> > notified that any
> > perusal, use, distribution, copying or disclosure is strictly
> > prohibited.
> > If you have received this email in error please immediately
> > advise us by
> > return email and delete the email without making a copy.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >   * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
> >   * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] *
> >   with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message * or with
> >   "help" in the body of the message for more information.
> >
>
>
> Andrew Wright (VH GAM)
>
> --
>   * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
>   * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
>   * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.
>
>



--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.

Re: Pay it forward (was Re: [aus-soaring] Rec License)

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

A club without students !
What a good idea !

- Original Message -
From: "Peter Rundle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, 4 July 2002 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: Pay it forward (was Re: [aus-soaring] Rec License)


> John,
>
>  > So as the burden of club
> > obligations interferes with my enjoyment of a sport I love, I find I am
> > casting about looking for alternatives to Gliding Club operations to
enjoy
> > the thrill of flying.
>
> You've put your finger on what I see as a problem (challange?) facing
> gliding
> clubs. After a while, running ropes and driving winches just becomes
> like hard
> labour. Especially when much of that labour is being given to students
> of whom
> a large proportion will not continue on in the sport. As clubs generally
> try
> to keep fees as low as possible to encourage new blood, the end result
> of all
> this activity is little or no financial benefit to the club, little or
> no new
> blood and a burnt out longer term membership. Clubs need to identify those
> individuals that are in if for the long term and eliminate the "got the
> t-shirt"
> brigade.
>
> How? Buggered if I know, but here are some ideas. And for those critics
> in the
> wings, please remember that I'm not suggesting that all clubs should
> adopt these
> ideas, but that some clubs might be able to make a go of it, where they
are
> currently failing. Also, whilst my rantings on this list might lead many
to
> believe that I'm "anti-club" that is not in fact true. Clubs need to exist
> because (most) individuals simply can't afford to run their own
> airfield, and to
> a lesser extent, their own aircraft. However, the politics that
> invariably comes
> with the club scene becomes destructive, and in todays recreational
market,
> where individual freedom rates highly, clubs are a major problem for
> aviation
> and gliding in particular because it relies on clubs the most.
>
> . Initial training in motor gliders allows the student to get lots of
> circuits
> and aerial work without the need for anyone else on the field (except the
> instructor of course). The instructor can also focus on the student, and
> flight
> bookings are practical so that todays time harried recreator can
> realistically
> fit in some flying without being charged with family neglect. Downsides,
> cost,
> motor gliders are either new and expensive or old and rare. Possibility
> of the
> motor glider as the club tug on Sundays might help. Alternatively some
> training
> could be conducted in Ulight's, same benefits as a motorglider but
> possibly less
> expensive capital purchase. A common licencing system would help in this
> regard.
> Student might be put off by the engine bit, after all they wanted to
> take up
> gliding, but then others who enjoy all types of flying could see it as a
> bonus.
> The hourly rate might seem higher, but two half hour flights with
> aero-tows,
> 2 x $25 + $45/hr = $95. In the motor glider you'd get a whole lot more
> circuits
> in your hour and end up paying around the same amount with no pushing of
> gliders
> running of ropes, obligation to stay and help the next student.
>
> . Clubs have non-student days. Means that all the students turn up on
> their day
> and thus they run ropes etc for the other students when not flying,
> rather than
> one or two students turning up each flying day. Those that enjoy
> teaching have
> their time in the sun on those days leaving the solo pilots to have
> their day
> as well. Again, a licence/rating that allowed for operation without L2
> instructor
> would make it a lot easier for a club to do this.
>
> . Clubs that don't train at all. At the moment, the GFA system means
> each and
> every club is required to have a training operation. The end result is
> that only
> the larger clubs have good training resources, the smaller clubs are
> stretched
> to provide the necessary equipment and personel, and it's central place
> in the
> club operation is off putting to qualified pilots. If clubs (and I'm
> thinking
> smaller clubs in particular) could operate without a training system,
> and send
> their students to other clubs/schools to be trained, then they might be
> able to
> focus on providing quality gliding hours to solo pilots, whilst the
> training
> club/schools might be more economically viable because of the increase in
> students (as a result of the student population not being stretched
> across 90
> clubs in Aus). Also the increased viability of the schools means that
> pilots
> that belong to non-training clubs have somewhere to go to get checks done.
> A single check flight might be pricing event for these pilots but it's a
> once
> a year. Again requires a licencing system that allows a club to exist
> *without*
> an instructors panel.
>
> rgds
>
> Pete
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>   * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
>   * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in t

Re: Pay it forward (was Re: [aus-soaring] Rec License)

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

I agree with all the comments in regard to the hard work related to a
training operation.
The whole operational philosophy of the GFA seems to be related to clubs
operating in a training environment.
It seems to me that in the past the training environment has kept fleet
utilisation high regardless of the high drop out rate (the t-shirt brigade).
Why do images of gliding "pyramid selling" keep coming into my head ?
Those days are over now ! There are too many other competitors for the
leisure dollar.
The example that we should follow, and one that one of the "magazine's"
regular correspondents has supported, is that of the dinghy sailing clubs,
that have a 100 years on us, and have been through all that we are going
through.
"Oh! You have learnt how to sail. What are you going to buy or which
syndicate are you going to join?"
In sailing, the crew at least  get onto (into) the ship to enjoy the trip.
:-)

Christopher Mc Donnell

- Original Message -
From: "Peter Rundle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, 4 July 2002 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: Pay it forward (was Re: [aus-soaring] Rec License)


> John,
>
>  > So as the burden of club
> > obligations interferes with my enjoyment of a sport I love, I find I am
> > casting about looking for alternatives to Gliding Club operations to
enjoy
> > the thrill of flying.
>
> You've put your finger on what I see as a problem (challange?) facing
> gliding
> clubs. After a while, running ropes and driving winches just becomes
> like hard
> labour. Especially when much of that labour is being given to students
> of whom
> a large proportion will not continue on in the sport. As clubs generally
> try
> to keep fees as low as possible to encourage new blood, the end result
> of all
> this activity is little or no financial benefit to the club, little or
> no new
> blood and a burnt out longer term membership. Clubs need to identify those
> individuals that are in if for the long term and eliminate the "got the
> t-shirt"
> brigade.
>
> How? Buggered if I know, but here are some ideas. And for those critics
> in the
> wings, please remember that I'm not suggesting that all clubs should
> adopt these
> ideas, but that some clubs might be able to make a go of it, where they
are
> currently failing. Also, whilst my rantings on this list might lead many
to
> believe that I'm "anti-club" that is not in fact true. Clubs need to exist
> because (most) individuals simply can't afford to run their own
> airfield, and to
> a lesser extent, their own aircraft. However, the politics that
> invariably comes
> with the club scene becomes destructive, and in todays recreational
market,
> where individual freedom rates highly, clubs are a major problem for
> aviation
> and gliding in particular because it relies on clubs the most.
>
> . Initial training in motor gliders allows the student to get lots of
> circuits
> and aerial work without the need for anyone else on the field (except the
> instructor of course). The instructor can also focus on the student, and
> flight
> bookings are practical so that todays time harried recreator can
> realistically
> fit in some flying without being charged with family neglect. Downsides,
> cost,
> motor gliders are either new and expensive or old and rare. Possibility
> of the
> motor glider as the club tug on Sundays might help. Alternatively some
> training
> could be conducted in Ulight's, same benefits as a motorglider but
> possibly less
> expensive capital purchase. A common licencing system would help in this
> regard.
> Student might be put off by the engine bit, after all they wanted to
> take up
> gliding, but then others who enjoy all types of flying could see it as a
> bonus.
> The hourly rate might seem higher, but two half hour flights with
> aero-tows,
> 2 x $25 + $45/hr = $95. In the motor glider you'd get a whole lot more
> circuits
> in your hour and end up paying around the same amount with no pushing of
> gliders
> running of ropes, obligation to stay and help the next student.
>
> . Clubs have non-student days. Means that all the students turn up on
> their day
> and thus they run ropes etc for the other students when not flying,
> rather than
> one or two students turning up each flying day. Those that enjoy
> teaching have
> their time in the sun on those days leaving the solo pilots to have
> their day
> as well. Again, a licence/rating that allowed for operation without L2
> instructor
> would make it a lot easier for a club to do this.
>
> . Clubs that don't train at all. At the moment, the GFA system means
> each and
> every c

Re: Pay it forward (was Re: [aus-soaring] Rec License)

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Yes !  Yes ! Yes!  David.

Christopher Mc Donnell.
(Arrow with long wings fella)


- Original Message -
From: "David Olsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, 4 July 2002 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: Pay it forward (was Re: [aus-soaring] Rec License)


> My own experience and, if I may speak on behalf of members of the NQSC, is
> that a small club like ours benefits from not attracting large numbers of
> the T shirt brigade, we tend to encourage the "selling" of memberships
> rather than AEF's. To extend the sales metaphor we try to "qualify sales"
to
> ensure that the people who are "invited" to the field, are those most
likely
> to take up the sport.
>
> How does this help? For a small club it means that the existing
> student/aircraft are not heavily taxed by "tyre kickers". The club
aircraft
> are therefore available for students and post solo pilots. We endeavour
> where possible to have the students and post solo club pilots run their
own
> show with the help of rostered instructors, while private owners fly their
> own aircraft without the need to spend heaps of time on the ground running
> the wire and such like. In exchange the private owners do much of the
> administrative and other work as well as pay for the club hangar via
hangar
> rental. Granted it is not a perfect system and many post solo pilots work
> hard at the field and do lots of other work. We (the private owners) try
> very hard to ensure such members are given the maximum opportunity to fly
> and many private owners will also choose not to fly at all on particular
> days, giving all of their energies to maintenance issues or to operating
the
> winch etc.
>
> In the end what we have is a system where students and early post solo
> pilots run their own operation at the field under the supervision of the
> duty instructor.. Owners provide instruction, DI training, airworthiness
> training, AEI, and other functions and get to fly pretty much as much as
> they can. Students and post solo pilots get to fly the two club aircraft
as
> much as they can so long as they can make the operation efficient. This
> means that the keen new members are doing quite a bit of the drudgery but
> are rewarded with the flying they need, and the private owners get to fly
> unhindered but are providing much of the infrastructure required for the
> club to function.
>
> When growth is rapid (as it has been for us recently) all members are
> challenged a bit, but we all try very hard to maximise the flying
> opportunities for ALL. Private owners will give up their flying to
maximise
> the flying for students and non-owners and then we'll try to organise a
day
> where only private owners fly. Sometimes we man the winch for each other,
> and sometimes a hard working post solo non-owner will offer his time.
>
> I think for small operations, a true co-operative approach is essential.
We
> all must be aware of the needs of the others and try our best to be fair
and
> equitable.
>
> AEF's still occur but mostly with well qualified people. Special days are
> sometimes organised for less well qualified people, but the emphasis is
> always on attracting prospective new members. I have even gone to the
extent
> of asking people if they want to fly just for the experience or if they
are
> seriously considering taking up the sport. If they answer the the former,
I
> direct them to another club, or arrange for them to come on a day when I
> know we will have a lot of AEF's.
>
> My own feeling is that small clubs should not focus on raising revenue via
> AEF's, but focus on giving maximum value to existing members. Newer
members
> are keen and should be encouraged to participate in the running of the
daily
> operation, sure many cannot afford the time to be at the field all day and
> will not choose gliding, a shame for the sport but no real loss to a small
> club. Look for those who will! Maybe some day your operation will be big
> enough and efficient enough to attract those people back, or they can
learn
> to soar at a commercial operation.
>
> The ratios for selling our sport are not all that different to any other
> sales exercise, wasting your club resources getting as many AEF's as
> possible, is just that "wasteful." My own estimates are as follows
>
> Unqualified interest ( I have always wanted to try that) HUNDREDS of
people
> Well why dont you here is how you can do it blah blah blah.
> AEF's as a result 20
> New members 1
>
> Qualified ( I am really interested in learning to fly a glider) 10
> AEF's as a result 5
> New members 1
>
> So you can fly 20 people and use all of your club resources, takin

Re: [aus-soaring] Re: Multi-Class Team Feed back

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Miles,
"Gun Pilot" or "gun" anything in the Australian idiom shows an acceptance
that the person/s being referred to are the best at what they do. That is
how I took it, and most others probably did also. :-)


- Original Message -
From: "Miles Gore-Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, 6 July 2002 5:58 AM
Subject: Re: [aus-soaring] Re: Multi-Class Team Feed back


> Thanks Emilis
> Not sure who or what a "Gun Pilot" is.
> Are you referring to those pilots who represent Australia at the World
> Gliding Championships?
> These pilots just happen to be a selection of the best competition pilots
in
> Australia, they do not compete in shooting competitions!
> Cheers MGB
> - Original Message -
> From: "Emilis Prelgauskas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, July 05, 2002 11:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [aus-soaring] Re: Multi-Class Team Feed back
>
>
> > At 10:10 PM 3/07/02 +1000, Miles wrote:
> > >I would like to add that this forum is not the only communication
network
> > related to Gliding in Australia, there is allot happening on the GFA web
> site.
> >
> > My understanding of why this issue was raised is that some pilots expect
> to
> > read gun pilot reports about world comp flying in Soaring Australia;
plus
> > have access to these gun pilots at training seminars.
> > In that way the pilots get some return on their monies to the ITC fund.
> > And that is why the matter is listed on this year's GFA ACM Agenda.
> > --
> > Emilis Prelgauskas
> > B.ARCH  ARAIA
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> > --
> >   * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
> >   * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >   * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
> >   * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.
> >
>
>
> --
>   * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
>   * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
>   * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.
>
>



--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.

Re: [aus-soaring] The next Legal WHAT THE...?!

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

If that is what the flight attendant can sue for for PTSD, what could the
pilots ask for?
Its probably been nothing more than a dinner table topic for them like, "I
remember the night I lost an engine over."


- Original Message -
From: "Quinn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, 23 July 2002 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: [aus-soaring] The next Legal WHAT THE...?!


> I've flown with Qantas on many occasions.
>
> Now that I know what wimpy cabin safety personnel they employ I've
developed an instant fear of flying in commercial aircraft.
>
> Now I wonder how much I ought to sue for ;-)
>
> Redmond
>
> **
> - Original Message -
> From: "Scott Lewis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, 23 July 2002 3:41
> Subject: [aus-soaring] The next Legal WHAT THE...?!
>
>
> > Seeing as we are on the topic..
> >
> > Noticed this in today's paper.  I challenge any lawyer to justify how
Qantas should be liable.
> >
> >
> >
> > Steward Sues Over Flight Scare
> >
> > A former steward is suing Qantas for up to $850,000 because of a flight
he says will haunt him for ever.
> > Patrick Shiels told the District Court in Sydney yesterday he was gazing
out of a porthole of a flight from Bali to Perth.  "It was dark and I saw a
sudden explosion, sparks, shooting flames, and I just froze," he said.
"Soon after, there was a much bigger explosion...shooting flames, I thought
the wing had been blown off".
> > The court heard an engine blade fractured and was "chopped up" by other
blades, and the flight returned to Bali.
> > Six years later, Mr Shiels is suing Qantas, saying the panic left him
with severe post-traumatic stress.
> >
> >
> > --
> > __
> > Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
> > http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
> >
> > Save up to $160 by signing up for NetZero Platinum Internet service.
> > http://www.netzero.net/?refcd=N2P0602NEP8
> >
> >
> > --
> >   * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
> >   * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >   * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
> >   * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.
> >
>
> --
>   * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
>   * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
>   * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.
>
>



--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.

Re: [aus-soaring] Garmin "Good news"

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Thanks for the info Andrew.
International Communications fixed my 12XL and Emilis's after we received
your advice.
To boot (pun) they updated the software and amended our North American data
bases to South Pacific data bases without us even asking for it.

WELL DONE GARMIN & THANKS


- Original Message -
From: "ANDREW WRIGHT" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, 23 April 2002 9:51 AM
Subject: [aus-soaring] Garmin "Good news"


> Remember me slagging Garmin for not wanting to know anything
> about fixing faulty internal batteries in Garmin 12XLs?  At the time it
was
> pointed out to me that I was being unkind and should have spoken to
> Garmin direct instead of just their agents.  I agreed with this criticism
and
> promised to retract my unkind words if Garmin "looked after" us 12xl
> owners.
> Well, the good news is I am retracting my unkind words as Garmin
> has accepted that they have a problem with 12XLs and are fixing them.
> "A little humble pie is good for the soul"
> People who have a Garmin 12XL and are experiencing "Low
> Internal Battery" warnings and associated loss of all data should contact
> their local Garmin centre.  In Adelaide it is "International
Communications",
> ph. no. = 08 8447 3688.
> I am now a "Garmin-ologist" again.
> ANDREW WRIGHT
>
> --
>   * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
>   * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
>   * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.
>
>



--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.

[aus-soaring] Landing Fees

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Gazetted in the South Australian Government Gazette of 
1/2/02 were the landing fees for Adelaide Airport.
In various categories they are based on $ amounts per 
1000 Kg with a minimum amount default.
There is a category for Rotary Wing and Unpowered Aircraft 
with a rate of $2.43 per 1000Kg or $16 minimum.
If you land there your retrieve crew will have to be quick 
as the parking is free for the first two hours and $12 per day after that unless 
you have a base operators contract.
HmI wonder if their field cars have a tow 
ball, a rope and Tost rings. ;-)
 
P.S.  Hi John, I'm still out here creating 
mischief.
 
 
Christopher McDonnell"Womma Mu Kurta"Mount Barker 
SpringsSouth Australia61 8  8391 0482
 
 

[aus-soaring] 2nd World Gliding Championships-Club Class

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Its late and I have just finished reading the report on 
the above event in "The Magazine" in bed, but just had to 
get up to post this.
I was so pleased to see Team Manager Colin Turner's 
timely and comprehensive report of the event that I wished to thank him publicly 
through this forum.
 
Thanks Colin, not only for the report itself, 
but especially for completing your responsibilities as a manager by 
reporting.
 
Christopher McDonnell"Womma Mu Kurta"Mount Barker 
SpringsSouth Australia61 8  8391 0482
 
 

[aus-soaring] Not gliding but 4x4's

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

This is the largest mailing list I belong to so I thought 
I would take a sample opinion from it.
 
Accepting that it is a given that :
 
1. 4x4's are not as safe as cars for their 
occupants.
2. Occupants of cars they hit are at greater 
risk.
3. They use a greater amount of fossil fuels.(gas 
guzzlers)
4. They cause problems with visibility when driving and 
parking.
5. A lot of etc.'s that others could add.
 
What do you think of a bumper sticker that reads? 
:
 
IMAGE PROBLEM?  LOW SELF ESTEEM?  GET A 
4X4!
 
Those who have objectivly assessed that they need a 4x4 
please also feel free to constructivly comment.
 
Subjective I know, but I have noticed over 20 years 
that a lot of the "wannabe's" that turn up for TIF's, and you never 
see again, drive the things. They also seem to cause the most problems on the 
day. 
 
Christopher McDonnell"Womma Mu Kurta"Mount Barker 
SpringsSouth Australia61 8  8391 0482
VH-GQG
 
 
 

[aus-soaring] Not gliding but 4x4's P.S.

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

If I put one of these stickers in my back window I 
will have the first Commodore in Australia to have a rear Bull Bar. 

 
:-)

Re: [Aus-soaring] A NEW APPROACH TO GFA PROMOTION & MEMBERSHIP??

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

I read the link below.
Seems that those who participate in gliding do 
so before regular sex and after they can't remember what it was :-)
Now if anybody knows a marketer who can 
convince the public that gliding is better than sex we've got it 
made.
 
Seriously though, training 50yr+ people is a hard 
slog. Ask EP or any instructor who has had a few. Our "Old Bomber" Eric Bates 
was a breeze as he had learnt to ride the bike when he was young.  I do not 
derogate this market niche as there are many others who are chasing it in 
this period of demographic change. 
 
Also on oldies, I am retiree and will not 
glide on the weekend unless it is for a special reason.
I am getting close to the top of my family 
hierarchical pyramid and there is always something on like baptisms, birthdays 
engagements, weddings etc. etc. which I am expected to attend and which I do 
enjoy. Before I retired I was the "old fart" who never came to anything because 
I was at the gliding club. I am lucky  that my club can accomodate weekday 
gliding as golf, bowling etc. clubs do for retirees. This is something that 
needs to be taken into account if this market is pursued.
 
The airminded oldies could be one of the 
saviours of our sport in the short term but in the long term I feel the 
sport for "ordinary" people is doomed for reasons I won't discuss here. There 
have been many activities, that have had their time and passed. As for 
myself I intend to enjoy it unfettered and to the full as long as I 
can.
 
Chris McDonnell
 
 
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Geoff 
  Kidd 
  To: Discussion of issues relating 
  to Soaring in Australia. 
  Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 6:02 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] A NEW APPROACH 
  TO GFA PROMOTION & MEMBERSHIP??
  
  See http://www.glidingmagazine.com/FeatureArticle.asp?id=485 
  for the NZ article titled "Membership: It’s not a pretty 
picture".
   
   
   
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Mark 
Newton 
To: Discussion of issues 
relating to Soaring in Australia. 
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 1:09 
PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] A NEW 
APPROACH TO GFA PROMOTION & MEMBERSHIP??
Robert Hart wrote:> Geoff Kidd wrote:> 
>> I would council the GFA to take (pay 
for) professional advice on >> key issues such as marketing 
etc.> > Agreed - but only after some extensive consultation 
in-house - ie with > the members. It is the members' organisation and 
they should have the > major say in the direction their organisation 
takes. Once the goals are > known, expertise to help achieve those 
goals can be paid for.Don't agree, Robert.  The goals are 
already known;  Extensiveconsultation with the members is going to 
deliver the same outcomewe're already talking about here, namely that 
the sport needs to begrown.The particular ways in which it is 
grown aren't (or shouldn't be)important to the current members.  We 
all happen to fit in to aculture that says lots of time and not much 
money is an ok way tolearn how to fly, otherwise we wouldn't be 
here.  So our ideas aboutthe way to go about this, as shaped by our 
personalities andexperiences are automatically incompatible with the 
potential customerbase we're talking about here.In short, if GFA 
engaged in detailed consultation with the members,and the members 
recommended the particular direction to take, thenthe members would 
effectively sabotage the process by recommendinga direction which was 
familiar and (for their demographic) "triedand true."  The safe 
option is the one we already have, because (forus) it has 
worked.Taking a new direction requires the organization's management 
totake a risk, to do some stuff which hasn't been done before 
whichis targeted at growing the sport.  Consultation with 
outsiders, notinsiders, is necessary -- outsiders will have perspectives 
that wouldsimply never occur to the likes of you and me, and (by 
definition)they're the kinds of people we need to appeal 
to.> but I would suggest that there is a heap of untapped 
expertise > amongst the GFA membership and look where 
it's managed to get us.Forget it.  Just pay someone who really 
knows what they're doing,instead of relying on volunteers who *say* they 
know what they'redoing.Frankly I don't give a rat's arse about 
whether the strategiesemployed by the GFA to grow the membership are 
compatible with theviews I'd put forward if I was consulted, as long as 
they work.The end justifies the means.> I am not suggesting 
that the membership take > on entirely the production of the business 
plan (few members will have > both the time and expertise available 
to do that), but this is where we > should start as the membership 
will have a set of views that are bound > to illuminate the issues in 
interesting and useful 

Re: [Aus-soaring] A NEW APPROACH TO GFA PROMOTION & MEMBERSHIP??

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Terry said:
 
"gliding is pricing itself out of the sporting aviation scene"
 
I can't but agree.
I could have afforded a Libelle for example when 
they were a current aircraft but now there is nothing new I could afford as 
an individual.
Even the rental rates at clubs with later aircraft 
are such that it is very expensive to remain 
even current.
Surely prospective participants do 
arithmetic.
I know some who have, including my son, who just 
have to say nah!
 
Chris McDonnell
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Terry Neumann 
  To: Discussion of issues relating 
  to Soaring in Australia. 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 12:24 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] A NEW APPROACH 
  TO GFA PROMOTION & MEMBERSHIP??
  Geoff Kidd wrote:
  


<>See http://www.glidingmagazine.com/FeatureArticle.asp?id=485 
for the NZ article titled "Membership: It’s not a pretty picture". 
It may however be totally accurate - for here - as well as 
  for New Zealand.That's the scary thing about writing out a blank 
  cheque for a group of consultants, as some are advocating.   Some 
  100+K$ later they will almost certainly come up with the conclusion that 
  gliding doesn't really interest, much less excite the general population, and 
  that other "competing" pastimes come easier and/or cheaper.We already 
  know that, and it hasn't cost us anything (in monetary terms).One of 
  the things that the combined magazine should have taught us is that gliding is 
  pricing itself out of the sporting aviation scene, or at least putting itself 
  at the higher end of the options.   Compare the prices in the hang 
  gliding classifieds with those of our kind, and you soon get a picture of the 
  relative costs of the equipment. Furthermore, the price of the basic 
  equipment sets the base line for the cost of the complete operation.  The 
  simply fact is that a K-21 costs more that (say) a Jabiru, and if you want to 
  put an engine in the K-21 - surely the only way to really set up even a basic 
  training regime for the "Satisfaction Now!!" generation - it gets even 
  worse.  There isn't really much we can do about that.I don't 
  particularly like to see this in print myself, but all the publicity, 
  promotion and research doesn't change the basic facts of the equation.  
  Gliding these days is expensive; it also takes time, effort and a certain 
  dedication to 'make it'.   Only an enthusiast is going to see it 
  through - even to solo stage - much less to go on to greater 
  things.Most people will make easier and cheaper choices - no matter 
  what we do, and how many consultants we hire, and what they tell us.Of 
  course we still promote the sport we love, and  we need to do so with the 
  same enthusiasm and passion we show in our inner circle here.  Terry 
  Cubley and the others who are working in this area are doing well, and should 
  be supported with ideas and action.    However we need to keep 
  our expectations and ambitions within the parameters of our product.   
  Almost everyone I speak to about gliding expresses the wish to "go for a 
  flight sometime".   However I just know that even if they do - and I 
  give every encouragement for them to go to their nearest club and give it a 
  try - that they probably won't be seized with the elusive addiction that keeps 
  the rest of us going over the years and even decades.That's just how 
  it is.Now standing well clear of the fan  
  .Terry  
  
  

  ___Aus-soaring mailing 
  listAus-soaring@lists.internode.on.netTo check or change subscription 
  details, 
visit:http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] Discus Pins

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

" loose my rigging pins"
What with duct tape etc. is there another message here?
Or is his spelling bad too :-)

Chris McDonnell

- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Davis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 12:05 PM
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Discus Pins



G'day All,

Took my Discus b for a flight last Saturday and ended up in a paddock. 
The problem was that I somehow managed to loose my rigging pins, en-route 
or in the paddock..??


Sunday looked to be a really good day, and wanted to go flying.  So I 
found a bolt and rigged it like that, heavily wrapping it with electrical 
and duct tape.


Ended up enjoying a nice flight, with no noticeable difference to flight 
performance.  I guess the question is, has anyone got some spare pins, or 
know how I can get some fairly quickly?



Regards,
Mike

_
REALESTATE: biggest buy/rent/share listings 
http://ninemsn.realestate.com.au


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] UK Accident Report

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Be careful where people put there mobile phones too 
as they may want to make a call during this unique event in their lives as 
todays young are wont to do.
Speaking from experience.
 
Chris McDonnell 
- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Brian 
  Wade 
  To: CGC List ; DDSC members CHAT ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 6:51 
  AM
  Subject: [Aus-soaring] UK Accident 
  Report
  
  The following is from a UK newspaper 
  article.  There is a message here for everyone!
   
  
  Glider crash caused by student’s camera 
  By Rachel Sixsmith
  A MAN'S first-ever gliding lesson turn into a disaster when his wayward 
  camera blocked the controls of the glider.
  The plane came down at Wycombe Air Park after a student's camera became 
  wedged between the cockpit and the controls, a Government investigation has 
  revealed.
  The student, who was given the lesson as a gift, was the last of a party of 
  two friends to go up in a glider at the Booker-based air park, at 4.45pm, on 
  August 8, last year.
  The Government's Air Accident Investigation Branch (AAIB) found that the 
  camera blocked the instructor's controls and caused the tandem glider to 
  stall.
  The report said: "The glider dropped its wing, and hit the ground before 
  bouncing into the air again injuring the student's legs and permanently 
  ruining the vehicle.
  An AAIB spokesman said the camera moved rearwards and became lodged in the 
  gap between the cockpit floor and the front seat control column as the glider 
  accelerated and "bounced" over the runway surface during the take-off run at 
  Booker.
  He added: "When the instructor attempted to move the control column 
  forward, as the glider started to pitch up, he was prevented from doing so by 
  the presence of the camera."
  The group of friends were given a British Gliding Association (BGA) safety 
  pamphlet which warns people to secure all of their loose objects during 
  flights.
  However, there was no requirement for the students to read this literature 
  before the lesson.
  And the report revealed that the pilot did not notice the student place his 
  camera on the floor.
  An AAIB spokesman said: "The instructor stated that he was not aware that 
  the student had a loose article a camera and did not brief him 
accordingly.
  He continued: "Nor was he aware of any procedures for doing so.
  "It seems that a tendency to overlook the BGA guidance relating to loose 
  articles may not have been unique to this instructor."
  --
  Brian Wade 
  
  Personal Computer ConceptsControl SPAM with MailWasher Pro 
  Uniform Timehttp://www.uniformtime.com.au
  PO Box 114 INDOOROOPILLY QLD 4068Ph: 07 3371 2944 Fax: 07 
  3870 4103
  
  

  ___Aus-soaring mailing 
  listAus-soaring@lists.internode.on.netTo check or change subscription 
  details, 
visit:http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] ACCIDENT & INCIDENT REPORTING

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Whats with the Platypus?
Competing with the Wombat? :-)

Chris McDonnell

- Original Message - 
From: "DJ Olsen Photo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] ACCIDENT & INCIDENT REPORTING



One annoying trait of this list is the way people attack each other
personally.
Keep the personal jibes out of it. Argue the point, state your case,
attack the words, but not the person , and this list would be a more
enjoyable read.





On 04/11/2005, at 8:53 AM, Kevin McGowan wrote:



different dates flown by different pilots having precisely the same
heavy-landing accident, which appears to be what the Robert Harts of
the world want to see column-inches in Soaring Australia wasted on.
   - mark
 [ winning friends and influencing people since 1971 :-) ]


Having just read an article in a leading aviation magazine under
the banner "Ask The Expert" by Robert Hart I now wonder if as a
level 2 instructor / chairman instuctor panel maybe he does know
better than the rest of us. Then again we have all heard the
definition of an expert.

Mack


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring





















DJ Olsen Photo
www.djolsen.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]











___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring 



___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] NZ Gliding Grand Prix Tickets on Sale

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

It was said:
"that would be 300 new, active GFA
members a year."

Should that not be:
"that would be 300 new, active glider pilots a year."

Chris McDonnell


- Original Message - 
From: "Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'Discussion of issues relating to 
Soaring in Australia.'" 

Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 12:57 PM
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] NZ Gliding Grand Prix Tickets on Sale



Jason,
 Media exposure is hard to buy.

Did you know that the World Rally Championship "WRC" "Rally Australia" 
round

is on this weekend in Perth? The only reason I know is I am interested in
the sport. Those with "FoxSport" can see it, and Ch10 will go live to the
event on Sunday afternoon (and I will be gliding)

The WRC is the F1 of Rally and "Rally Australia" is the Australian round -
all the top drivers and teams are in Perth - they have taken over part of
the foreshore area on the Swan River - literally millions of dollars in
play, yet east coast media coverage is almost non existent.

Like you would like to see the NZ Gliding Grand Prix be successful and get
widespread publicity, the reality is the event will be competing with 
events

that already have established media channels.

Gliding needs a positive public profile.

Twice in the past week I have been asked because I was wearing a shirt 
that

advertised gliding; is there a gliding club in Canberra? Both these people
were very interested; one had been a member of Southern Cross in the past.

Idea

If every member of the GFA actively promoted the sport, wearing club T
shirts when out and about etc, and everyone had 2 positive contacts a year
from which there was a 5% harvest rate, that would be 300 new, active GFA
members a year.

Is that too much to dream about.

Regards

SDF





-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason &
Jemima Armistead
Sent: Friday, 11 November 2005 12:01 PM
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Aus-soaring] NZ Gliding Grand Prix Tickets on Sale

FYI

It will be interesting to see what sort of exposure this
event is able to give gliding in NZ and possibly Australia.


-Original Message-
From: Victoria Murray-Orr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, 10 November 2005 9:44
Subject: NZ Gliding Grand Prix Tickets on Sale


Please find attached and below information on New Zealand
Gliding Grand Prix tickets.


Thanks


Victoria




Victoria Murray-Orr
the eveNZ consultancy
event management . pr . marketing


---
T: +64 (0)3 443 2700
F: +64 (0)3 443 2702
M: +64 (0)275 617 893
W: www.evenz.co.nz




GLIDING GRAND PRIX TICKETS GO ON SALE

Tickets go on sale today (10 November) for one of the
summer's most exciting sporting events, the New Zealand
Gliding Grand Prix in Omarama from 27-29 January.  Likened
to Formula One in the sky, the Grand Prix will introduce the
general public to the skill and daring of competitive
gliding. Spectators will experience the thrill of the
world's fastest free-flying aircraft racing head-to-head
at speeds of up to 300kph, at times just metres above the
ground.  The top 10 gliding pilots from around the world are
travelling to New Zealand to contest the title of Grand Prix
champion and take on the challenge from current world
champion, New Zealander John Coutts.  A giant outdoor
screen, fed by the most advanced TV graphics and live
helicopter filming ever seen, together with live commentary,
will keep the crowds in the thick of the adrenalin-charged
action.  In addition to the racing there's a host of
on-ground entertainment including wine and food stalls,
classic cars, arts and crafts and children's fairground
rides as well as aerobatic entertainment and trial glider
flights.  Tickets are available through the event's
official web site http://www.gp06.com/ or through Ticketek
outlets nationwide and http://www.ticketek.co.nz/   Advance
ticket prices are $30 for adults and $70 for families (two
adults and up to three children).  There are also a limited
number of three-day Flight Arena passes for $350 that
include behind the scenes access, gala dinner and pilots'
reception, daily light refreshments, separate seating area
and dedicated viewing screen.

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soarin

[Aus-soaring] Lenticulars

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Sitting on my verandah here at Mt Barker Springs SA 
watching the most perfect lenticulars created to the east of the Adelaide Hills 
from about 6pm CDT for two hours.
 
The morphing of shapes was fascinating as the wind 
changed its direction slightly. Then before dusk the wind changed its direction 
quite a few degrees and the lenticulars sprung up about 20 kms from the 
originals a few minutes later.
 
I suppose it all went to waste :-(
 
Chris McDonnell
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] World gliding numbers

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

The number of glider pilots in the US would seem to 
be roughly the same proportion to the total population as it is in Australia and 
decreasing at the same rate.
 
Similarities of cause perhaps?
 
Chris McDonnell

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Geoff 
  Kidd 
  To: Discussion of issues relating 
  to Soaring in Australia. 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 11:14 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] World gliding 
  numbers
  
  SWK
   
  Thanks for those figures  and also to 
  PB
   
  While the figures for OZ are 1993 3510 & 2004 
  2637 ... a decrease here of about 25% (or 882 pilots in gross terms) 
  when calculated on the same basis.
   
  Regards GWK
   
   
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Kittel, Stephen W (ETSA) 
To: Discussion of issues 
relating to Soaring in Australia. 
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 
10:06 AM
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] World 
gliding numbers

Ta for that Patrick.
I was pretty sure John had done a report for later 
years (and still continues) but I couldn't find it 
before.
 
To correct the numbers in my previous email 
:
 
The US numbers have been substantially reduced from 
the original 2003 estimates, however, these (more justifiable?) numbers 
still show:
1993  23557
2004  20980
A decrease of about 11% (or 2577 pilots in 
gross terms).
 
So compared to John's first estimate, there appear 
to be less glider pilots in the US to start with and a bigger loss of 
pilots (both gross numbers and %wise) over the sample period than 
was originally thought. 
 
Regards
SWK
 

  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
  Patrick BarfieldSent: Tuesday, 13 December 2005 11:10 
  PMTo: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in 
  Australia.'Subject: [Aus-soaring] World gliding 
  numbers
  
  
  For a more recent 
  report (to 2004) with revised US numbers see http://www.fai.org/gliding/membership 
  
   
  Cheers,
   
  Patrick 
  Barfield
   
   
  -Original 
  Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kittel, Stephen W 
  (ETSA)Sent: Tuesday, 13 
  December 2005 3:46 AMTo: 
  Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] The Future 
  of Gliding Part 2
  
  …
  
   
  
  http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/Data/world-membership.pdf
  
  …
   
  
   
  --No virus found in this incoming message.Checked 
  by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/198 - 
  Release Date: 12/12/2005
  



___Aus-soaring 
mailing listAus-soaring@lists.internode.on.netTo check or change 
subscription details, 
visit:http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
  
  

  ___Aus-soaring mailing 
  listAus-soaring@lists.internode.on.netTo check or change subscription 
  details, 
visit:http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] World gliding numbers

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Oh!  The US would seem to be half our 
pilot/population ratio.
Thought the US was closer to 200M though than 300M 
which was a surprise to me.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Peter 
  Creswick 
  To: Discussion of issues relating 
  to Soaring in Australia. 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 12:44 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] World gliding 
  numbers
  
  Juggled those numbers a bit in Excel, and 
  resorted into order of number of people in population per glider 
  pilot.
  Results are interesting.
  The ANOMALY, is the USA, but remember that in USA 
  glider pilots are mostly power pilots first, with glider ratings, whereas 
  in most other countries, glider pilots are basically a separate pilot 
  community.
   
   
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Christopher Mc Donnell 
To: Discussion of issues 
relating to Soaring in Australia. 
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 
12:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] World 
gliding numbers

The number of glider pilots in the US would 
seem to be roughly the same proportion to the total population as it is in 
Australia and decreasing at the same rate.
 
Similarities of 
cause perhaps?
 
Chris McDonnell

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Geoff 
  Kidd 
  To: Discussion of issues 
  relating to Soaring in Australia. 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 
  11:14 AM
  Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] World 
  gliding numbers
  
  SWK
   
  Thanks for those figures  and also to 
  PB
   
  While the figures for OZ are 1993 3510 & 2004 
  2637 ... a decrease here of about 25% (or 882 pilots in gross 
  terms) when calculated on the same basis.
   
  Regards GWK
   
   
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Kittel, Stephen W (ETSA) 

To: Discussion of issues 
relating to Soaring in Australia. 
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 
10:06 AM
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] World 
gliding numbers

Ta for that Patrick.
I was pretty sure John had done a report for 
later years (and still continues) but I couldn't find it 
before.
 
To correct the numbers in my previous email 
:
 
The US numbers have been substantially reduced 
from the original 2003 estimates, however, these (more justifiable?) 
numbers still show:
1993  23557
2004  20980
A decrease of about 11% (or 2577 pilots in 
gross terms).
 
So compared to John's first estimate, there 
appear to be less glider pilots in the US to start with and a 
bigger loss of pilots (both gross numbers and %wise) over 
the sample period than was originally 
thought. 
 
Regards
SWK
 

  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
  Patrick BarfieldSent: Tuesday, 13 December 2005 11:10 
  PMTo: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in 
  Australia.'Subject: [Aus-soaring] World gliding 
  numbers
  
  
  For a more 
  recent report (to 2004) with revised US numbers see http://www.fai.org/gliding/membership 
  
   
  Cheers,
   
  Patrick 
  Barfield
   
   
  -Original 
  Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kittel, Stephen W 
  (ETSA)Sent: Tuesday, 
  13 December 2005 3:46 AMTo: Discussion of issues relating 
  to Soaring in Australia.Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] The 
  Future of Gliding Part 2
  
  …
  
   
  
  http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/Data/world-membership.pdf
  
  …
   
  
   
  --No virus found in this incoming 
  message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.371 / Virus 
  Database: 267.13.13/198 - Release Date: 12/12/2005
  



___Aus-soaring 
mailing listAus-soaring@lists.internode.on.netTo check or change 
subscription details, 
visit:http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
  
  

  ___Aus-soaring 
  mailing listAus-soaring@lists.internode.on.netTo check or change 
  subscription details, 
  visit:http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring



___Aus-soaring 
mailing listAus-soaring@lists.internode.on.netTo check or change 

[Aus-soaring] Gliding Trivia

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

I am sure we all do a lot of reading about gliding 
and also store away lots of info from other sources.
So for a bit of fun I thought I would start a 
trivia list that we could all add to.
Wikepedia if you wish.
 
Chris McDonnell
 
1. The first two men to set foot on French 
soil on D Day (though they landed on their heads through a barbed wire 
fence (as ordered)) were glider pilots.
2. The first man on the moon, Neil Armstrong was a 
glider pilot.
3. The first gliding record (post 1903) was set by 
the Wright Brothers (duration).
4. Most heavy cargo aircraft today are developments 
of cargo glider concepts.
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] World gliding numbers

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Sometimes you are sorry that you started something 
on this list, but not this time.
Thanks Peter for your application to the 
subject.
Nice to know the ballpark boundaries.
 
Chris McDonnell

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Peter 
  Creswick 
  To: Discussion of issues relating 
  to Soaring in Australia. 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 4:01 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] World gliding 
  numbers
  
  This what you want ?
   
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Geoff 
Kidd 
To: Discussion of issues 
relating to Soaring in Australia. 
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 3:46 
PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] World 
gliding numbers

Peter
 
    Good stuff.
 
    Can you add the % 
increase/decrease, for each country, in your spreadsheet, based on the 
comparison of the 93 - 04 figures .. to see what the various 
trends are?
 
Geoff
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Peter Creswick 
  To: Discussion of issues 
  relating to Soaring in Australia. 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 
  1:14 PM
  Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] World 
  gliding numbers
  
  Juggled those numbers a bit in Excel, and 
  resorted into order of number of people in population per glider 
  pilot.
  Results are interesting.
  The ANOMALY, is the USA, but remember that in 
  USA glider pilots are mostly power pilots first, with glider ratings, 
  whereas in most other countries, glider pilots are basically a 
  separate pilot community.
   
   
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Christopher Mc Donnell 
To: Discussion of issues 
relating to Soaring in Australia. 
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 
12:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] World 
gliding numbers

The number of glider pilots in the US would 
seem to be roughly the same proportion to the total population as it is 
in Australia and decreasing at the same rate.
 
Similarities of 
cause perhaps?
 
Chris McDonnell

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Geoff 
  Kidd 
  To: Discussion of issues 
  relating to Soaring in Australia. 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 
  2005 11:14 AM
  Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] World 
  gliding numbers
  
  SWK
   
  Thanks for those figures  and also to 
  PB
   
  While the figures for OZ are 1993 3510 & 
  2004 2637 ... a decrease here of about 25% (or 882 pilots in 
  gross terms) when calculated on the same basis.
   
  Regards GWK
   
   
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Kittel, Stephen W 
(ETSA) 
To: Discussion of 
issues relating to Soaring in Australia. 
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 
2005 10:06 AM
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] 
World gliding numbers

Ta for that Patrick.
I was pretty sure John had done a report 
for later years (and still continues) but I couldn't find it 
before.
 
To correct the numbers in my previous email 
:
 
The US numbers have been substantially 
reduced from the original 2003 estimates, however, these (more 
justifiable?) numbers still show:
1993  23557
2004  20980
A decrease of about 11% (or 2577 
pilots in gross terms).
 
So compared to John's first estimate, there 
appear to be less glider pilots in the US to start with and a 
bigger loss of pilots (both gross numbers and %wise) over 
the sample period than was originally 
thought. 
 
Regards
SWK
 

  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf 
  Of Patrick BarfieldSent: Tuesday, 13 December 2005 
  11:10 PMTo: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring 
  in Australia.'Subject: [Aus-soaring] World gliding 
  numbers
  
  
  For a 
  more recent report (to 2004) with revised US numbers see http://www.fai.org/gliding/membership 
  
   
  Cheers,
   
  Patrick 
  Barfield
   
   
  -Original 
  Message-From: 
  

Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliding Trivia

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Nose doors,tail ramps,wheels in fuselages, general shape etc.
The Laister Kauffman CG 10 amongst others seems to have settled the general 
layout of heavy lift aircraft to this day. My own interpretation, but a site 
on the CG 10 claims this also.


No gliding here near Adelaide today. Blowing hard.
Mike B might give us some trivia about the genesis varios.
Hav'nt seen much in what I have read.

Chris McDonnell


- Original Message - 
From: "Graeme Cant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 9:43 PM
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Gliding Trivia



>From: "Christopher Mc Donnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

1. The first two men to set foot on French soil on D Day (though they 
landed on their heads through a barbed wire fence (as ordered)) were 
glider pilots.

2. The first man on the moon, Neil Armstrong was a glider pilot.
3. The first gliding record (post 1903) was set by the Wright Brothers 
(duration).
4. Most heavy cargo aircraft today are developments of cargo glider 
concepts.


I'll go along with 2 and 3 - and add that I understand Orville personally 
signed "C" certificates well into the 30s as the US FAI rep.


I thought 1 were the frogmen who landed in the night and cut barbed wire. 
What time did the gliders land?


I'm puzzled by 4.  Which ones did you have in mind Chris?  Swing noses? 
Folding ramps?


Graeme Cant


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring



___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliding Trivia

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Thanks Mike.
Did'nt know that and I doubt whether you could go any further back than 
that.


Chris McDonnell
- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Borgelt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring inAustralia." 


Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliding Trivia



At 11:47 AM 15/12/05 +1030, you wrote:

Nose doors,tail ramps,wheels in fuselages, general shape etc.
The Laister Kauffman CG 10 amongst others seems to have settled the 
general
layout of heavy lift aircraft to this day. My own interpretation, but a 
site

on the CG 10 claims this also.

No gliding here near Adelaide today. Blowing hard.
Mike B might give us some trivia about the genesis varios.
Hav'nt seen much in what I have read.

Chris McDonnell


genesis varios?

Do you mean how they got started? First were adaptations from ballooning.
Sealed flask with outlet at bottom of a beaker of water. Bubbles=going up.
Faster bubbles = going up faster.

Mike
Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments
phone Int'l + 61 746 355784
fax   Int'l + 61 746 358796
cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784
 Int'l + 61 429 355784
email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
website: www.borgeltinstruments.com

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] numbers

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

I can't help but agree with Wayne.
I have been told that Boomerangs or KA6's were around about the cost of a 
family car when new.

Those around my club are used to my trite rhetorical saying:

"Why can't the manufacturers build some Commodore and Falcon type gliders 
not all Rolls Royces, Mercedes & BMW's?".


My son, who is in Brisbane, thought he might get back into gliding but the 
aircraft tariffs were enough to scare him away from the idea and he earns 
relativly well. Gliding is definitly shifting across the socio/economic 
spectrum and the sort of people who could afford it are such that they would 
not put up with the conditions at most gliding clubs in the consumer society 
of today anyway.


I agree with Robert Hart's comments a few moments ago, but he, like me, 
seems to also be hoping that the sport will last long enough to see him out.


Chris McDonnell
(not normally & not wanting to be a pessimist)

- Original Message - 
From: "Wayne Carter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 8:37 AM
Subject: [Aus-soaring] numbers



snip-

I guess he can - but to what purpose?

I really don't care whether gliding in Australia is growing, shrinking or 
tying itself in knots.  I would like MY OWN CLUB to continue in existence 
and it seems to be doing that very nicely, with relatively stable 
numbers - perhaps slightly increasing.  I've introduced a few friends to 
gliding and every now and then other members do and the club chugs along 
nicely.


I don't care if gliding becomes more popular.  It appears it was much more 
popular in the late 70s but since it has shrunk from then, that popularity 
clearly didn't translate into a better gliding experience for many of the 
members - because they left.


It seems to me that if we all try to make sure that our own club stays a 
happy, solvent organisation which provides as far as possible an 
affordable and enjoyable gliding life for those who wish to be part of it, 
then that is the best we can do.  Growth will then take care of itself. 
By which I mean - it will happen if that is what makes people enjoy 
gliding more.  And if not, it won't.


The only thing I can do about the state of world gliding is to help keep 
my own club viable.  That's all you can do too.  The rest is gum-beating.


Graeme Cant

When we drool over a 50+, dream of a 70+ and imagine a possible 100+ L/D 
ship -all quite feasable- we must face reality that the technology used in 
our sport is at the expensive forfront of aviation design. When this 
technology is safely available to the public we buy it, but there must be 
a large base of consumers to keep it economically viable, thus the 
increase in participants is essential. When the old ships are damaged, and 
there are few replacements, even your club will go down, as a new ship 
will cost even more, due to declining sales. Can you imagine what the cost 
of the first new model Holden off the line is? $B! -yet we pay only $20k+. 
Although our own lifespans will see gliding easily accessable, our kids 
and grandkids will not unless the figures are changed.


Safe, Wayne

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] numbers

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

"I fully intend to be gliding well into my 70s as, I
suspect, do most of my age cohort. At the current rate of decline in
gliding, that may well not be possible - and it certainly will not be
possible if we "just go gliding"".

"Yikes - my intention was to convey the idea that we should all
contribute to gliding so that it will last way past my lifetime!"

Sorry Robert, but on the words that still reads to me that you are hoping.

Chris McDonnell

- Original Message - 
From: "Robert Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] numbers



Christopher Mc Donnell wrote:

My son, who is in Brisbane, thought he might get back into gliding but 
the aircraft tariffs were enough to scare him away from the idea and he 
earns relativly well. Gliding is definitly shifting across the 
socio/economic spectrum and the sort of people who could afford it are 
such that they would not put up with the conditions at most gliding clubs 
in the consumer society of today anyway.


That is what clubs are for - to allow the cost of expensive gliders to be 
amortised across a wider group than just an individual or syndicate. There 
are a number of clubs in the Brisbane region that have some quite hot 
ships online. Beyond that however, you do not have to buy the "latest and 
greatest" glider. A Libelle will cost less than a new Ford or whatever - 
and (were she on the market) Alice would cost you less than a new SUV.


In fact, the aircraft you are flying is only a very small part of the 
overall performance of the pilot/glider combination. I reckon it is going 
to take me at least five more years to get to the point where Alice's 
limitiations will become as important on the overall result of my flying 
as my lack of skills and execution. Even so, Alice has managed to help me 
to achieve second place overall for several days in two recent comps - but 
then my inabilities and inconsistencies kicked in and we dropped like a 
stone!


This is one great advantage of the handicap system, even up in open class!

I would advise your son to go visit the clubs in the Brisbane environs and 
pick one!


I agree with Robert Hart's comments a few moments ago, but he, like me, 
seems to also be hoping that the sport will last long enough to see him 
out.


Yikes - my intention was to convey the idea that we should all contribute 
to gliding so that it will last way past my lifetime!


--
Robert Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+61 (0)438 385 533   http://www.hart.wattle.id.au

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] RE: Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 27, Issue 50

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

The GFA Membership Renewal Advice's Medical Practitioner's Certificate Of 
Fitness says:


"I am the applicant's GP/a CASA DAME. etc..

Please notice the back slash to facilitate deletion.

My reading of that is that GFA members (gliders only) can go to their GP and 
only incur at least a long consult fee not the huge (unclaimable from 
Medicare) DAME fee to satisfy the renewal reqirements if they need to go 
beyond the self declaration route.


I have hardly ever been to a Dr in my life, but started to go once a year 
after I turned 50 (a GP who specialises in ageing care) since I drink, smoke 
and try for the other as much as I get a chance to and want some advance 
warning if something is awry.
I always ask him after the long consult if he thinks I am fit to fly, but 
from now on I will get him to sign the declaration as well.


Chris McDonnell


- Original Message - 
From: "Robert Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] RE: Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 27, Issue 50



Mike Borgelt wrote:


How many people actually know what the medical criteria and disqualifying
conditions are?

I certainly do not (and I have a better 'lay' understanding of medicine 
than most as both my parents were medics) - it is after all, a matter of 
degree in many cases. I decided nearly a couple of years ago to take 
myself off to a DME and get a PPL medical.


I certainly do not favour increased regulation of this issue by the GFA 
(or CASA), but there are issues associated with the medical. I have sat on 
the IP at two clubs where we have debated this issue and the legal 
ramifications for the club and its officers that might result if an unfit 
pilot had an accident with a passenger on board. One club now requires 
that instructors (including AEIs) have their medical signed off by their 
regular medical practitioner. A number of instructors who are not power 
pilots have decided, like myself, that the best approach is to have a PPL 
medical.


Let's face it, glider pilots as a group are getting older on average. I 
sincerely hope that I will know when the time has come for me to stop 
instructing and flying solo. However, I am only too well aware of the 
human ability to gloss over things. Hence my decision for myself to have a 
PPL medical (which will now get much more expensive - sigh).


If the self declaration is going to be kept, we must all remember that 
along with that privilege comes the responsibility to exercise that 
privilege wisely. That may well mean getting an informed third party 
opinion on one's fitness to fly. I decided to form that habit well before 
(I hope!) my fitness to fly becomes an issue. That way, I do not have to 
make that decision later when I might be worried about failing - and hence 
fall at the ethical hurdle.


--
Robert Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+61 (0)438 385 533   http://www.hart.wattle.id.au

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] GFA's role

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Was the use of the word "wearily" instead of "warily" a Freudian slip given 
the subject matter :-)


Chris McDonnell


- Original Message - 
From: "J Hudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 7:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] GFA's role



Ken, I agree totally with your sentiments.
All I am advising is tread wearily - your good intentions may just be the 
fodder someone wants to recover costs, apportion blame - all the things 
being suggested wont happen.


John Hudson ___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] RE: Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 27, Issue 50

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

You are probably right Derek, but that is what the form says.
Could I add however that your GP is expected to sign a certificate of 
fitness to drive where required (preexisting condition or over 70 here in 
SA) with no "outs" and the risk to driver,passengers and public are much 
greater there than flying a glider.


Chris McDonnell

- Original Message - 
From: "Derek Ruddock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 2:26 PM
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] RE: Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 27, Issue 50



Good luck. Asking his opinion and getting him to sign a paper is a
different matter.
Getting a GP to sign a declaration that an individual is fit to fly,
without them having the specialised knowledge and training of a DAME
could leave them open to legal action.
Does passing an aviation medical certify an individual fit to fly? I
don't think so

Having said that, having any extensive checkup on a regular basis once
you are over 50 can't be a bad idea...


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:aus-soaring-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christopher Mc Donnell
Sent: Wednesday, 21 December 2005 2:20 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring

in Australia.

Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] RE: Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 27, Issue 50

The GFA Membership Renewal Advice's Medical Practitioner's Certificate

Of

Fitness says:

"I am the applicant's GP/a CASA DAME. etc..

Please notice the back slash to facilitate deletion.

My reading of that is that GFA members (gliders only) can go to their

GP and

only incur at least a long consult fee not the huge (unclaimable from
Medicare) DAME fee to satisfy the renewal reqirements if they need to

go

beyond the self declaration route.

I have hardly ever been to a Dr in my life, but started to go once a

year

after I turned 50 (a GP who specialises in ageing care) since I drink,

smoke

and try for the other as much as I get a chance to and want some

advance

warning if something is awry.
I always ask him after the long consult if he thinks I am fit to fly,

but

from now on I will get him to sign the declaration as well.

Chris McDonnell



___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: Fw: [Aus-soaring] Glider Crash it says in Courier Mail- clickbelow

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Given the link given I took Peter to be referring to the waste of a 
beautiful aircraft and all the work done.


Chris McDonnell


- Original Message - 
From: "Robert Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Soaring in Australia" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [Aus-soaring] Glider Crash it says in Courier Mail- 
clickbelow




Peter Stephenson wrote:

http://www.auf.asn.au/constructors/everest.html  What a waste! One will 
wonder whether an annual check flight by a gliding club instructor could 
have prevented this spin-in from happening.




Peter

That is a very thoughtless thing to say - particularly when one of your 
own club members killed himself earlier this year spinning in. He had had 
an annual check hadn't he - and that did not stop his accident so what 
makes you think that an annual check ride is enough to prevent spin ins?


--
Robert Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+61 (0)438 385 533   http://www.hart.wattle.id.au

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] Medical examination for gliding

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Patrick Barfield said:
 
"If he has any of these conditions, he can’t fly solo without a medical 
exam from a GP or DAME."
 
Thanks for sharing my interpretation re the GP bit on the 
GFA form Patrick and I also agree with the rest of your views.
 
However it would be nice if we OFTTH's could use our annual medicals 
to at least ask our GP if we are fit to fly and even sign the form if they feel 
confident to do so. Don't know what I would do if he holds back from 
signing after he has told me I am OK to fly. 
 
There are other people who care for us 
OFTTH's beyond gliding and an early loss would cause them pain but for the 
lack of a question to a Dr. who may not even realise we 
fly.
 
Chris McDonnell
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Patrick 
  Barfield 
  To: 'Discussion of issues 
  relating to Soaring in Australia.' 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 4:13 
  PM
  Subject: [Aus-soaring] Medical 
  examination for gliding
  
  
  There seems to be some support for routine medical 
  examinations for glider pilots rather than the current system of 
  self-declaration for solo pilots and medical exams for charter pilots in 
  Appendices 1 and 2 of the GFA Opregs.
   
  For what it’s worth, here are my 
  thoughts:
   
  Under the current system, if people suffer from 
  epilepsy, fits, severe head injury, recurrent fainting, giddiness, blackouts, 
  abnormally high blood pressure, previous heart disease, a deficiency in vision 
  or take insulin for the control of diabetes, they require a medical 
  examination before flying solo. So, in effect, people are proposing to make 
  people who don’t suffer from any of these conditions take a routine medical 
  examination before flying solo. Can this be justified on safety 
  grounds?
   
  To counter the argument that some people have failed 
  airline (Class 1) medicals and then turned to gliding, I would say it depends 
  on what grounds they failed the Class 1 medical. I hope everybody agrees that 
  a gliding medical should be less stringent than a Class 1 medical, so I can 
  see a case for an ex-airline pilot failing a medical and self-declaring to fly 
  solo in a glider as long as he doesn’t suffer from one of the conditions 
  listed above. If he has any of these conditions, he can’t fly solo without a 
  medical exam from a GP or DAME. If he has one of these conditions and falsely 
  self-declares, I would argue that making everybody take a routine medical just 
  to catch those dishonest people is unreasonably burdening the honest pilots. 
  
   
  Somebody else just made the point that having an 
  incapacitating medical event could be just as fatal while driving a car as 
  flying a glider. Anecdotally you hear of fatal car accidents caused by drivers 
  suffering heart attacks etc but I don’t see the public or regulators 
  clamouring to impose routine medical examinations for all drivers. Why? 
  Because it isn’t justified on a risk assessment/cost-benefit analysis that 
  applies just as well to gliding.
   
  What would be the cost of imposing a routine GP 
  medical exam on all glider pilots? Assume 50% of the 2,600 GFA members already 
  have a Students Pilot License or greater and can use their existing medical. 
  1,300 x $80 doctor’s fee (This is a guess since I haven’t visited a doctor for 
  many years) = $104,000 every two years (assuming the pilots are over 
  40).
   
  What is the potential benefit? Apart from the possible 
  pilot incapacitation example that Macca quoted, how many gliders do we lose 
  each year to pilot incapacitation? If we lose less than one glider every few 
  years, I would say that routine medicals aren’t warranted on a risk vs reward 
  basis alone. Furthermore, not all medical examinations would pick up every 
  “ticking time-bomb”. Even some airline pilots with current Class 1 medicals 
  die suddenly, fortunately they do it outside the cockpit or they have a 
  co-pilot to recover the aircraft. I realise that I’m being a bit callous and 
  simplistic in my analysis by ignoring the cost of the pilots themselves but 
  I’m assuming that they would have probably had the same fatal accident driving 
  their car or sitting in their armchair. 
   
  You could argue that there would be an additional cost 
  if the pilot dies at the controls while conducting an AEF or TIF with a 
  non-pilot passenger who subsequently crashes the glider and gets injured. Many 
  years ago, a glider pilot had to have a medical exam to get a passenger rating 
  but I don’t know when this changed. I would be prepared to concede this point 
  only.
   
  Most people on this list favour less gliding 
  regulation and less expense so it seems anomalous that people are proposing to 
  increase regulation and cost for (IMHO) questionable reward. 

   
  Merry Xmas and Happy New Year to 
all.
   
  Regards,
   
  Patrick Barfield
   
  (Somebody arguing vociferously against medicals but 
  with nothing to hide since 

Re: [Aus-soaring] handing a bill

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Thank God I was lucky enough to have had the 
protection of an Act of Parliament for any error I made in my professional 
advice/life.
I don't think I ever made one as no complaint was 
ever made against me.
Had a complaint been made against me it would have 
been far outweighed by the good I was able to do in all the other 
cases rather than have to act vacuously as organisations and 
individuals have to do in today's litigious society.
I hope that was the Parliamentary wisdom in 
granting that waiver rather than the protection of the State purse.
 
Chris McDonnell

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Emilis 
  Prelgauskas 
  To: Discussion of issues relating 
  to Soaring in Australia. 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 9:53 
  AM
  Subject: [Aus-soaring] handing a 
  bill
  
  On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 16:15:06 +1030, Mark Newton 
  wrote:
  >I'm a doctor now, and it really 
  craps me off when I can't
  >get away from my job in social 
  situations because everyone's
  >always
  >asking for medical advice. 
   Is it legal to charge them for
  >answers
  >to all these stupid 
  questions?"
  >
  >"Certainly," says the lawyer, 
  and hands him a bill.
   
   
  That is particularly relevant when the courts 
  hold that the professional's advice is binding irrespective whether it was 
  given in a formal consulting role or not.
  
  

  ___Aus-soaring mailing 
  listAus-soaring@lists.internode.on.netTo check or change subscription 
  details, 
visit:http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

[Aus-soaring] Part 47

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Just noticed on the CASA site the large number of 
gliders that are at risk of deregistration for non compliance.
Lots of other A/C too.
 
 
Chris McDonnell
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] Part 47

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

I did not find the process re Part 47 difficult at all.
I had to make some enquiries re some "wobblies" for people I was JP'ing for 
and re some problems with one of my own gliders and I found the CASA people 
very helpful.
Knee jerk to terrorism issue aside, the process will benefit the 
registration system, but I'm glad my name is not Abdul :-)


Chris McDonnell


- Original Message - 
From: "Catherine Conway" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Part 47


I'm also frustrated.  After being on the phone for 45 mins going over each 
question in the entire form with a lady from CASA and being told it was 
100% correct, I received a letter _4 months later_ telling me I had put 
the wrong details in a question!


Sigh

Between that, the long delay on getting my class1 medical back and the 
months I've been waiting for an ASICs card!


I'm personally glad we have the GFA to represent us most of the time!

-Cath


Kittel, Stephen W (ETSA) wrote:


Wombat excepted of course, but I am extraordinarily frustrated with CASA
over this.
I actually put my application in prior to Nov 2004 (!) only to be
informed toward the end of last year that they had lost it!
They were "nice" enough to forward me some blank forms (which I could
just as easily have got myself) but that doesn't resolve the running
around I must do _again_ to prove that I am a legal person.

But the thing which annoys me most is that even with the "3 month"
extension, a quick check of the register shows the following numbers
transferred:
2004 dec 160
2005 jan 122
feb 156
mar 264
apr 405
may 371
jun 434
jul 521
aug 694
sep 471
oct 135
nov 133
dec 807
2006 jan 191

total 4864

Out of 12500ish aircraft.
In other words, even if they double the current processing rate they
will still be battling to finish _this_ year.

Regards
SWK

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike
Cleaver
Sent: Thursday, 16 February 2006 11:35 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Part 47

At 22:07 16/02/2006, you wrote:


Just noticed on the CASA site the large number of gliders that are at
risk of deregistration for non compliance.
Lots of other A/C too.

Chris McDonnell



That's why there was a change to the rules 3 months ago - just before
the previous drop-dead date for CAR Part 3 registrations.  Owners and
rego holders (registered operators in the new parlance) will in due
course receive a letter from CASA - this will then give them 3 months to
have the transfer to CASR Part 47 registration under way.

However, there is currently a cost-recovery system in place, which is
forecast to increase again in July 2007.  CASA have employed a large
number of temporary staff to handle first of all the Part 47 process and
then the issuing of security-legislation compliant licences (which has
also been extended due to the impossible timeframe initially allowed.

I would not necessarily believe rumours that the cost recovery is a
deliberate Government tactic to prove to their ideological zealots that
it does not work, so that they can return to a more taxpayer-funded
charging regime.

Wombat


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

**
This email and any file attachments are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom
they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please tell 
us immediately

by return email and delete the document.
The information in this email expresses the opinion of the author
and does not necessarily represent the views of ETSA Utilities.
**

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring 



___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] Part 47

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Ya gotta understand the public service mind which I do after 40 years in it.
BTW are'nt some of the aus-soaring threads interesting given that I regard 
you as having a similar view re human nature that I have. But I'm gunna keep 
my trap shut.
Re our conversation on fastner disciplines I have found the only thread/bolt 
size on my Toyota Hiace camper van that is not metric and that is universal 
with most vehicles around the world. Your trivia task for the day. Where?


Regards

Chris McDonnell
- Original Message - 
From: "Kittel, Stephen W (ETSA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 11:04 AM
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Part 47






-Original Message-
From: Christopher Mc Donnell


I did not find the process re Part 47 difficult at all.
I had to make some enquiries re some "wobblies" for people I was JP'ing
for and re some problems with one of my own gliders and I found the CASA
people very helpful.

++

Glad someone is getting an easy run Chris!

Got this a short while ago from my Boomerang syndicate partner (amongst
other Boomerang related issues):

"Part 47 lingers on,  The second and third applications were hand
delivered to a member of the part 47 team and the third application
seems to have made it to an inbox, of course they complained about
something so I need to go back to Terry and Peter to get them to sign a
section 5.2 again."

Of course, Terry and Peter are other syndicate (or ex syndicate)
members. We all live in SA, while the original sender is closer to the
action in the ACT!

:-(

Regards
SWK


**
This email and any file attachments are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom
they are addressed.
If you have received this email in error please tell us immediately
by return email and delete the document.
The information in this email expresses the opinion of the author
and does not necessarily represent the views of ETSA Utilities.
**

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: I dunno but maybe... Was: [Aus-soaring] Part 47

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Oops!  Sorry all, but I thought Stephens original message to me was one to 
one.


Chris McDonnell


- Original Message - 
From: "Kittel, Stephen W (ETSA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 10:33 AM
Subject: I dunno but maybe... Was: [Aus-soaring] Part 47




1st guess:
Gearbox?
Maybe speedo cable connection.

2nd guess (actually a better one now I think of it)
The screws in the radio/cassette/cd player. They'll be american
gauge/thread ones (eg 8-24).

3rd guess
Your camera mount :-)  that'll be 1/4 WW

Regards
SWK


-Original Message-
From:  Christopher Mc Donnell

Re our conversation on fastner disciplines I have found the only
thread/bolt size on my Toyota Hiace camper van that is not metric and
that is universal with most vehicles around the world. Your trivia task
for the day. Where?

Regards

Chris McDonnell

**
This email and any file attachments are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom
they are addressed.
If you have received this email in error please tell us immediately
by return email and delete the document.
The information in this email expresses the opinion of the author
and does not necessarily represent the views of ETSA Utilities.
**

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

[Aus-soaring] Mike Burns

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Does anybody have an email address for Mike 
Burns?
 
Chris McDonnell
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

[Aus-soaring] Kingfisher ES-57 VH-GLD

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Would anybody happen to know the whereabouts of the 
above homebuilt Kingfisher?
Last registration was in the name of Anthony 
O'Donoghue of Booval which I believe is a part of Ipswich.
 
Thanks if you can help.
 
Chris McDonnell
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

[Aus-soaring] Gravitational Launching

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

That is amazing.
Know some ideal hills locally but they all point 
the wrong way :-(
 
Chris McDonnell
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

[Aus-soaring] SWER

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Gee!  Things can be so different. Most carrier 
pilots would brag about snagging the only wire available.
 
S(ee) W(ire) E(vade) R(esults)
 
S(oar) W(ary) of E(lectricity) 
R(etailing)
 
Yuk I know, but could'nt stop myself 
:-)
 
Chris McDonnell
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] Queensland Easter Competition and FLARM

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Me too.
 
We wear beards.
Fly wooden buggies.
All dress the same in old gardening clothes and 
TTH'S.
 
Chris McDonnell

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Emilis 
  Prelgauskas 
  To: Discussion of issues relating 
  to Soaring in Australia. 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 9:25 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Queensland 
  Easter Competition and FLARM
  
  On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:20:43 +1100, Geoff Kidd 
  wrote:
  >Is there an Amish Soaring 
  Club  out there somewhere . and are
  >some of them members of this 
   forum?
   
  yep, I'm lurking.
  
  

  ___Aus-soaring mailing 
  listAus-soaring@lists.internode.on.netTo 
  check or change subscription details, visit:http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: was Re: [Aus-soaring] Turnpoints for the Chinchilla Easter Competition

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

"Hypoxy"
A word Peter which means loosly "under sharp" which of course renders the 
word "moron" inutilitous.
I have wondered why we don't say hypo(oxia) which sounds more technically 
correct.

Hyperventilate is certainly used for the opposite.
Perhaps Michael Texler can explain that one.

Chris McDonnell

- Original Message - 
From: "Peter Stephenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 6:15 PM
Subject: was Re: [Aus-soaring] Turnpoints for the Chinchilla Easter 
Competition




No, that person is a hypoxy moron. :-)
PeterS
- Original Message - 
From: "Robert Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Boonahgliding" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Discussion of issues
relating to Soaring in Australia." 
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Turnpoints for the Chinchilla Easter 
Competition




Boonahgliding wrote:
> intelligent typos  -   their's an oxy moron
I thought an oxy moron was any glider pilot at 12,000 ft without 
oxygen...


--
Robert Hart  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+61 (0)438 385 533   http://www.hart.wattle.id.au


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring



___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] amish

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

This has been a wonderful day!' said he, as the Rat launched and took to 
the skies again. `Do you know, I`ve never been in a glider before in 
all my life.'`What?' cried the Rat, open-mouthed: `Never been in a--you 
never--well I--what have you been doing, then?'`Is it so nice as all 
that?' asked the Mole shyly, though he was quite prepared to believe it as he 
leant back in his seat and surveyed the instruments, the controls, and all the 
fascinating fittings, and felt the glider sway lightly under 
him.`Nice? It's the ONLY thing,' said the  Rat solemnly, as he 
leant forward to adjust the vario. `Believe me, my young friend, there is 
NOTHING--absolute nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing about in 
gliders. Simply messing,' he went on dreamily: `messing--about--in--gliders; 
messing about in gliders--or WITH gliders,' the Rat went on composedly. `In or 
out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's the charm 
of it. Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your 
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get 
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in particular; 
and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and you can do it 
if you like, but you'd much better not. Look here! If you've really nothing else 
on hand this morning, supposing we go cross country and have a long 
day of it?'
The Mole waggled his toes from sheer happiness, spread his chest with a 
sigh of full contentment, and leaned back blissfully into the soft cushions. 
`WHAT a day I'm having!' he said. `Let us start at once!'
 
Apologies to Kenneth Grahame
 
Christopher McDonnell


  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Emilis 
  Prelgauskas 
  To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 9:35 
  AM
  Subject: [Aus-soaring] amish
  
  To take up the thought of the quiet reflective 
  end of gliding which tends to be swamped by the rowdy rah-rah-rah end of the 
  sport.
   
  Such glider pilots are pleased to be embedded in 
  the activity in its many forms.
  Gathered around an airframe needing a little 
  TLC
  gathered around the coffee pot to chew the 
  fat
  going flying just for that
  where the l/d in itself is not 
  important
  possibly the plane's flying character is more 
  important
  where the panel may not contain any electrical 
  stuff, or the battery may be removed, and thus the calls are inside the 
  cockpit rather than to the outside world
  without in any way reducing the sense of 
  fellowship with other glider pilots, pilots of other ways & means, and the 
  medium we operate in.
  Where the collective view is one of support and 
  encouragement, within which the individual has control of self 
  determination.
  In mutual respect the individual might choose to 
  adjust their actions to take account of those around them.
   
  A world somewhat removed from directives and cost 
  centres.
  
  

  ___Aus-soaring mailing 
  listAus-soaring@lists.internode.on.netTo check or change subscription 
  details, 
visit:http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] Hypoxia, Hyperventilation, breathing

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

"Hypo (oxia) is difficult to say, hypoxia is much easier to say!"

Thought that might be so.

A little bit like getting people to say "agoraphobia" instead of 
"agraphobia". Even those who suffer from it.


Chris McDonnell

- Original Message - 
From: "Texler, Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 8:42 AM
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Hypoxia, Hyperventilation, breathing


Oxygen = Oxy (acid or sharp)  and gen (forming or creating, as in genesis) 
oxygen is literal "acid forming"


Hypo (oxia) is difficult to say, hypoxia is much easier to say!

You can hyperventilate and still be profoundly hypoxic if you have bung 
lungs (or circulation to the lungs), the most dramatic example caused by 
pulmonary embolus, whereby a blood clot (most likely from the legs in 
association with "deep vein thrombosis" or "DVT") becomes lodged in the 
main artery from the heart to the lungs, hence no blood circulates through 
the lungs, hence very little oxygen in the blood (you are hypoxic). The 
unfortunate patient hyperventilates in a vain attempt to increase the 
blood oxygen level (so much so it is called "air hunger"). I have seen it 
happen, it is not a pretty sight.


Also if you hyperventilate in a low oxygen atmosphere (i.e. at altitude) 
you will be hypoxic as well.


Under normal circumstances (i.e. at sea level standard temperature and 
pressure, with healthy lungs) adequate oxygenation is easy to maintain, 
and oxygen levels don't drop below a point that makes us want to 
hyperventilate (we were designed that way). What surprises most people is 
that the stronger drive to make us breathe is the accumulation of carbon 
dioxide in our blood (as a by product of metabolism, the combustion of 
foodstuffs in our cells). Just think of that feeling you get when you hold 
your breath, there is an increasing desire to breathe, this is caused by 
the buildup of carbon dioxide in your blood stream, moreso than the 
reduction in oxygen levels. So we breathe to blow off the carbon dioxide 
produced by our bodies as well as take in oxygen.


I am a pathologist (and in a previous life worked in surgery and done 
stints in anaesthesia), so I have relied upon my knowledge of respiratory 
physiology from these experiences. I know that there are anaesthetists 
lurking out there, perhaps they can comment.


Michael Texler


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] Call for photos

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Somewhere in there, a nice one of a Kingfisher 
please.
I cannot find one anywhere on the net except a few 
old grainy ones from years ago. Airborne would be a bonus.
 
Christopher McDonnell
GRH (under reconstruction)

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Gus 
  Stewart 
  To: Discussion of issues relating 
  to Soaring in Australia. 
  Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 8:07 
PM
  Subject: [Aus-soaring] Call for 
  photos
  
  Hi all,
   
  I'm looking to pretty up the wiki site a little, and am 
  calling on a submission of photos (of gliders, preferably!) that I can use on 
  the site. 
  I would prefer people submit them rather than me having to ask everyone 
  for copyright etc etc.
   
  Please email it to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... 
  and label the photos in some way so I can attach them to the right 
  aircraft! JPG / GIF formats are probably the best. 
  Of course credit will go to the photographer underneath the images 
  :-)
   
  Thanking you in advance for your photos!
   
  Cheers,
   
   
  Gus 
  
  

  ___Aus-soaring mailing 
  listAus-soaring@lists.internode.on.netTo check or change subscription 
  details, 
visit:http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] Call for photos

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Thanks Ken.
I looked there recently and did not see anything so the Wiki is moving along 
well.

As I am compiling a Kingfisher "Register" does anybody know it's mark?

Chris McDonnell


- Original Message - 
From: "Ken Caldwell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Call for photos



On Mon, 2006-04-10 at 10:25 +0930, Christopher Mc Donnell wrote:

Somewhere in there, a nice one of a Kingfisher please.
I cannot find one anywhere on the net except a few old grainy ones
from years ago. Airborne would be a bonus.

I didn't think the one at

http://www.wikiglide.com/wiki/index.php/Schneider_Kingfisher_ES57

was that bad :-(

I think I have a picture of John Fisher's Kingi flying at Camden in the
60's but it not as good a picture. I will upload it if I can find it.

cheers,

Ken



___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] Call for photos

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Thanks Ken
- Original Message - 
From: "Ken Caldwell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Call for photos



On Mon, 2006-04-10 at 17:46 +0930, Christopher Mc Donnell wrote:

Thanks Ken.
I looked there recently and did not see anything so the Wiki is moving 
along

well.
As I am compiling a Kingfisher "Register" does anybody know it's mark?


Unfortunately I can not help here. I don't even know what it's
registration was VH G?? I seem to have a vague recollection that it was
sold to John Tuffrey who flew it from Warialda in Northern NSW. I
believe it was written off. It does not appear with that name or
location in the 1969 Australian Gliding Year Book.

BTW I have uploaded three pictures of the type. Look in "Recent
Changes". I left them as 1840x1232 pixel jpgs so that you can process
them to your requirements. I still have the original slides.

I found John Fisher's aircraft in the year book listed as VH GNW with
1963 as the date built. It was home built from plans and from memory had
slightly different ailerons than those on the SCGC Kingi.

HTH

Ken


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: Kingfishers WAS: [Aus-soaring] Call for photos

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Thank you John & Stephen.
My records show that GLB has the factory serial number of 31 which raises 
some doubt about it being a homebuilt.
The one in the museum in WA is GRE with the factory number of 42, so the 
mystery deepens.
My records show there were three(3) homebuilts. GNW(John 
Fisher)wrecked,GLQ(ex Kevin Sedgman) wrecked, GLD (last known owner A 
O'Donoghue) fate or location unknown. The other fate/location unknown is GRU 
(serial 52) whose mark is now with Mike Borgelt's Ventus which I think is 
nice as he did his silver C in an ES57.
I have talked to the current owner of GLB recently and will send your photo 
on to him when I receive it Stephen.
Thanks very much though fellas as the info adds to the little register I am 
building.


Chris McDonnell

- Original Message - 
From: "Kittel, Stephen W (ETSA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 8:54 AM
Subject: Kingfishers WAS: [Aus-soaring] Call for photos




I think there were 2 Kingfishers at Port Augusta Gliding Club in about
the early 60's.
One club aircraft and one private owned. The club one also went into
private hands when PAGC bought an Arrow. One of them was badly damaged
(and rebuilt) by a blow over (thermal). GLB was one of these two.
I have a scanned picture of GLB on my laptop (at home) I will try to
remember to check tonight.

Regards
SWK

PS My Silver distance was Port Augusta to Orroroo also.




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of J Hudson
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 8:40 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Call for photos

Re Kingfishers

My Father, Bill Hudson, built an ES57 Kingfisher. He
purchased a kit from Harry Schneider (who was at Parafield in
those days) and returned it to Whyalla to build it.

The build conditions were lousy compared to some you see
today, built in a shed which housed a brick making machine,
so the glider was built around it.
The shed had no power.

The glider had the registration (from memory) VH-GLB. My
father completed his Silver C in the Kingfisher, including a
flight from Port Augusta to Orroroo.

I believe this aircraft is now in a museum in WA.

John Hudson
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring



**
This email and any file attachments are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom
they are addressed.
If you have received this email in error please tell us immediately
by return email and delete the document.
The information in this email expresses the opinion of the author
and does not necessarily represent the views of ETSA Utilities.
**

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring 



___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: Kingfishers WAS: [Aus-soaring] Call for photos

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Thanks John.
GRE is at least still in existence though I have been told it is only fit 
for static display.


Chris


- Original Message - 
From: "J Hudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: Kingfishers WAS: [Aus-soaring] Call for photos



Re VH-GLB, I will check with my Father when I next see him.

The Balaklava Club also had a Kingfisher, VH-GRE.
I have many flights in my logbook in this aircraft.

John Hudson
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] 747 Water Bomber

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Looks like the toilet overflow with a Melbourne Australian Rules team aboard 
for a end of season trip abroad.


- Original Message - 
From: "Caleb White" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:56 AM
Subject: [Aus-soaring] 747 Water Bomber



Hi Folks,

Apologies as this is not really related to gliding but well worth a look! 
Not sure how they cope with the c of g shift.


http://www.evergreenaviation.com/supertanker/gallery.html

Cheers,

Caleb

KPST


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: Kingfishers WAS: [Aus-soaring] Call for photos

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Thanks John.
More interesting historical info.

Chris


- Original Message - 
From: "J Hudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: Kingfishers WAS: [Aus-soaring] Call for photos



Hi Chris,
I have had a look at my logbook now, and am not sure of the rego of the 
glider my father built.
I got to fly GLB and GRE (they are in my log book), but I never got to fly 
the aircraft my father built (too young).


It may have been VH-GNC, but will check, and see if I can get some 
pictures.
On the issue of Factory serial Number, this may be so, because the 
aircraft was purchased as a kit. with the wings and fuselage partly 
formed. I do recall travelling between Adelaide and Whyalla with the 
partly built glider on the trailer and it rained - the glider of course 
open to the elements and casein glue.


Will get back to you.

Regards

John Hudson ___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] Winter soaring in Germany

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Simon said:

"The gliding club was operating with a winch, and the winch operation was
working perfectly well as part of the towered flight operation. The
winch operation had its own radio operator, liasing with the tower radio
operations staff but otherwise running their own operation."

Could you imagine that in OZ?

- Original Message - 
From: "Simon Hackett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 5:24 AM
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Winter soaring in Germany



Dear friends,

Today I have had the pleasure of taking a new Stemme S10-VT motorglider
for a couple of flights in Strausberg, Germany before I have it shipped
to Australial next week sometime.

One of the things it reminded me was the fact that thermals really -are-
a function of temperare difference, not of absolute temperature.

In the afternoon, I flew the aircraft with the ground ambient
temperature holding at a balmy 8 degrees celcius (the morning flight was
conducted an an ambient of about four degrees C!).

On that flight, I found and worked some viable thermals, ultimately
gaining about 1200 feet starting at 2000 feet.   And outclimbing two
other gliders to do it :)

Gaining 1200 feet is hardly earth shattering, but it was surprising to
me because of that low ambient temperature. Earlier, I'd spent 10
minutes gaining 90 feet, which is much more what I had expected - but
then, the weather got one notch better, and I got one notch more
sucessful making use of it.

I also had the experience of operating a motorglider in the powered
aircraft circuit at Strausberg (a tower controlled airport), which has a
glider field on the grass parallel to the sealed powered runway. So
there are two, 1200 metre, runways parallel (and quite close) to each
other.

Because the township of Strausberg is right beside the airfield, the
powered and glider circuits operate concurrently as concentric circuits
- with the powered aircraft circuit (in effect) wrapped 'around' the
glider circuit.

It was quite fun doing what amounted to a formation circuit around to a
formation landing on 05L, flying a larger, 'outside' circuit, just
behind a pure sailplane coming in ahead of me on circuit onto the grass
(05R).

The gliding club was operating with a winch, and the winch operation was
working perfectly well as part of the towered flight operation. The
winch operation had its own radio operator, liasing with the tower radio
operations staff but otherwise running their own operation.

Tomorrow, I'll be studying the manuals for the glass cockpit system in
my aircraft, before trying a few more of those winter thermals. And
continuing to get the hang of operating in a country where the radio
calls are in German (the tower controller today was happy to use English
for my benefit, but usually... they don't :) ).

The landscape here has also changed in one large way since I was last
visiting the Stemme factory - in the surrounding countryside, many of
the grassy fields are full of... huge power-generating windmills. In
fact, not so much large as ... 'huge' ! They're most impressive to
watch, slowly turning in the afternoon light...

So - all in all, a great day, and not at all 'boring' :)

Regards,
 Simon Hackett

















___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring 



___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] 747 Water Bomber

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Yeah! they perform just as well off field.

- Original Message - 
From: "Patching" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] 747 Water Bomber



Adelaide Crows??
- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christopher Mc Donnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] 747 Water Bomber


Looks like the toilet overflow with a Melbourne Australian Rules team 
aboard for a end of season trip abroad.


- Original Message - 
From: "Caleb White" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:56 AM
Subject: [Aus-soaring] 747 Water Bomber



Hi Folks,

Apologies as this is not really related to gliding but well worth a 
look! Not sure how they cope with the c of g shift.


http://www.evergreenaviation.com/supertanker/gallery.html

Cheers,

Caleb

KPST


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring 



___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: Kingfishers WAS: [Aus-soaring] Call for photos

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Thanks Jeff.
I have located the A/C.
 
Chris McDonnell

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Jeff 
  Woodward 
  To: Discussion of issues relating 
  to Soaring in Australia. 
  Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 7:08 
  PM
  Subject: Re: Kingfishers WAS: 
  [Aus-soaring] Call for photos
  Hi .I flew GLB a number of times in Sept 1974 at 
  Cunderdin,W.A. the 'Kingi' was then owned by a true gentleman(who recently 
  passed away) named Doug McLennan.I can try to follow up the aircraft if you 
  wish...Jeff Woodward"Kittel, Stephen W (ETSA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  wrote: 
  I 
think there were 2 Kingfishers at Port Augusta Gliding Club in aboutthe 
early 60's.One club aircraft and one private owned. The club one also 
went intoprivate hands when PAGC bought an Arrow. One of them was badly 
damaged(and rebuilt) by a blow over (thermal). GLB was one of these 
two.I have a scanned picture of GLB on my laptop (at home) I will try 
toremember to check tonight.RegardsSWKPS My Silver 
distance was Port Augusta to Orroroo also.> -Original 
Message-> From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf> Of J 
Hudson> Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 8:40 AM> To: Discussion 
of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.> Subject: Re: 
[Aus-soaring] Call for photos>> Re Kingfishers>> 
My Father, Bill Hudson, built an ES57 Kingfisher. He> purchased a kit 
from Harry Schneider (who was at Parafield in> those days) and 
returned it to Whyalla to build it.>> The build conditions 
were lousy compared to some you see> today, built in a shed which 
housed a brick making machine,> so the glider was built around 
it.> The shed had no power.>> The glider had the 
registration (from memory) VH-GLB. My> father completed his Silver C 
in the Kingfisher, including a> flight from Port Augusta to 
Orroroo.>> I believe this aircraft is now in a museum in 
WA.>> John Hudson> 
___> Aus-soaring mailing 
list> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net> To check or change 
subscription details, visit:> 
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring>**This 
email and any file attachments are confidential andintended solely for 
the use of the individual or entity to whomthey are addressed. If 
you have received this email in error please tell us immediatelyby 
return email and delete the document.The information in this email 
expresses the opinion of the authorand does not necessarily represent 
the views of ETSA 
Utilities.**___Aus-soaring 
mailing listAus-soaring@lists.internode.on.netTo check or change 
subscription details, 
visit:http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
  
  
  New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call 
  regular phones from your PC and save big.
  
  

  ___Aus-soaring mailing 
  listAus-soaring@lists.internode.on.netTo check or change subscription 
  details, 
visit:http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Thanks Ann.
And for those interested

GDH now GKN (23)  is now with Ian Patching
GHD (24) is in Japan
GRH (28) is with me
GLB  (31) is alive and well in WA
GLD  (HB) is a MYSTERY
GLS  (39) is alive in NSW
GRE  (42) is in a museum in WA
GRF now ZAG (43) is alive and well in QLD
GRU (52) is a MYSTERY
GNC (59) is alive and well in WA
GNW (HB) wrecked

And a couple not in your list Ann

GLQ (HB) wrecked
GLR? (mid wing HB) wrecked

Were there any more?

Chris McDonnell

- Original Message - 
From: "Ann Woolf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 7:27 PM
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher



This might help with some Reg numbers

AG Jan 1968

NoReg   TypeDate   Ser   Reg Owner 
Remarks

in  No built  No
Reg

34GDH   Kingfisher ES 57/I   1956   23   J Fitz Henry  Mt Isa, Qld
56CHD   Kingfisher ES 57II   1957   24   SP Dwyer, Kingaroy , Qld 
Unairworthy being rebuilt


AG Dec 1969

34GDH   Kingfisher ES 57/1   1956   23Darwin GC
56GHD   Kingfisher ES 57/2   1957   24SP Dwyer, Qld
80GRH   Kingfisher ES 57/2   1958   28Barossa Valley
83GLD   Kingfisher ES 57/21957   HBP   F A Maiden & Ptnrs Qld
98GLB   Kingfisher ES 57/2   1957   31RAAF Pearce, Qld
103   GLS   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1959   39C E Gandy (SA)
109   GRE   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1960   42GC of WA
110   GRF   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1960   43J G Simpkins (Qld)
131   GRU   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1961   52Sunraysia GC
137   GNC   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1962   59I A MacLean  (WA)
156   GNW   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1963   HBP   J Fisher  (NSW)
It's easy when you have a set of AGs on disk!

Ann

--
Waikerie, S Australia

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

I think they are racing numbers for the era.
GQZ's (ex Conway Boomerang) serial number was 85.
Serial number 49 was a Mk lV Kookaburra.
Wha.t has this to do with Kingfishers? You've lost me.

Chris

- Original Message - 
From: "JR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher



Chris, on the wiki site it has a boomerang ( or 2 ) in photo form, it has
the number 49 on its fuse, the rego given is not what I thought 49 was I
thought VH- GQZ was 49.
regards JR
- Original Message - 
From: "Christopher Mc Donnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."

Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher



Thanks Ann.
And for those interested

GDH now GKN (23)  is now with Ian Patching
GHD (24) is in Japan
GRH (28) is with me
GLB  (31) is alive and well in WA
GLD  (HB) is a MYSTERY
GLS  (39) is alive in NSW
GRE  (42) is in a museum in WA
GRF now ZAG (43) is alive and well in QLD
GRU (52) is a MYSTERY
GNC (59) is alive and well in WA
GNW (HB) wrecked

And a couple not in your list Ann

GLQ (HB) wrecked
GLR? (mid wing HB) wrecked

Were there any more?

Chris McDonnell

- Original Message - 
From: "Ann Woolf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 7:27 PM
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher


> This might help with some Reg numbers
>
> AG Jan 1968
>
> NoReg   TypeDate   Ser   Reg Owner
> Remarks
> in  No built  No
> Reg
> 
> 34GDH   Kingfisher ES 57/I   1956   23   J Fitz Henry  Mt Isa, Qld
> 56CHD   Kingfisher ES 57II   1957   24   SP Dwyer, Kingaroy , Qld
> Unairworthy being rebuilt
>
> AG Dec 1969
>
> 34GDH   Kingfisher ES 57/1   1956   23Darwin GC
> 56GHD   Kingfisher ES 57/2   1957   24SP Dwyer, Qld
> 80GRH   Kingfisher ES 57/2   1958   28Barossa Valley
> 83GLD   Kingfisher ES 57/21957   HBP   F A Maiden & Ptnrs Qld
> 98GLB   Kingfisher ES 57/2   1957   31RAAF Pearce, Qld
> 103   GLS   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1959   39C E Gandy (SA)
> 109   GRE   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1960   42GC of WA
> 110   GRF   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1960   43J G Simpkins (Qld)
> 131   GRU   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1961   52Sunraysia GC
> 137   GNC   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1962   59I A MacLean  (WA)
> 156   GNW   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1963   HBP   J Fisher  (NSW)
> It's easy when you have a set of AGs on disk!
>
> Ann
>
> -- 
> Waikerie, S Australia

>
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> To check or change subscription details, visit:
> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
>


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring



___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] Tug or Winch Available?

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

"-minimal skill of operator required"

Being of Irish heritage I'm going to leave that well alone :-)

Christopher McDonnell


- Original Message - 
From: "Michael Derry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Tug or Winch Available?



Mark

The Irish Gliding Association operated an auto launch operation using
wire and a single pulley. Best they achieved was 120 gliders launched in
one day to 2,000 feet. It would be difficult to beat this in terms of:
-efficiency
-minimal skill of operator required
-reliability
-capital cost
-operating cost

I suggest that you go to Boonah GC and see how their pulley launch
operation works.

The form of the pulley launch system that you may adopt would depend on
things such as:
-runway length (height achievable is similar to a winch ie approx 1/3
times the length)
-whether you have lights at the side of the strip
-type of surface that you have on the strip
-etc

My neighbour saw my glider yesterday and offered to be the driver and
provide the launch vehicle for both of his kids to learn gliding (they 
have

yet to part with cash and book a course though !) Getting parents
involved would be a great way to boost younger members to take up the
sport.

Deceiding on a launch system is a major decision for any club and will
depend on many factors including members previous experiences and
whatever skills and resources are readily available.

Please give the list some idea of the facilities and conditions of your
operation, members experience and other relevant info.

Regards

Michael Derry
Hooked on Pulley Auto Launches
join up at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pulleylaunch/

On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 15:04:39 +1000
"Mark Fisher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Summerland Gliding Club is re-assessing launch options pending the
imminent sale of the Pawnee we are currently hiring.

If you have any suggestions, let 'em fly!!
We'd be interested in considering all options.

Cheers
Mark


Mark Fisher
Sports Technologist
School of Exercise Science
Southern Cross University
www.scu.edu.au

Ph: +61 2 66203655
Fax +61 2 66203880



___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring



___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

I think we are at cross purposes.
The Boomer pictured is not mine.
You are probably right about racing numbers, of which I have no knowledge.
Maybe you can tell me what GQ's racing number was please.
Would like to know.

Regards

Chris

- Original Message - 
From: "JR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher



This has nothing to do with kingfishers,only that your name was with the
boomer, and I still think the racing number is 49 for QZ. regards JR
- Original Message - 
From: "Christopher Mc Donnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."

Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher



I think they are racing numbers for the era.
GQZ's (ex Conway Boomerang) serial number was 85.
Serial number 49 was a Mk lV Kookaburra.
Wha.t has this to do with Kingfishers? You've lost me.

Chris

- Original Message - 
From: "JR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."

Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher


> Chris, on the wiki site it has a boomerang ( or 2 ) in photo form, it

has
> the number 49 on its fuse, the rego given is not what I thought 49 was 
> I

> thought VH- GQZ was 49.
> regards JR
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Christopher Mc Donnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."
> 
> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 9:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher
>
>
>> Thanks Ann.
>> And for those interested
>>
>> GDH now GKN (23)  is now with Ian Patching
>> GHD (24) is in Japan
>> GRH (28) is with me
>> GLB  (31) is alive and well in WA
>> GLD  (HB) is a MYSTERY
>> GLS  (39) is alive in NSW
>> GRE  (42) is in a museum in WA
>> GRF now ZAG (43) is alive and well in QLD
>> GRU (52) is a MYSTERY
>> GNC (59) is alive and well in WA
>> GNW (HB) wrecked
>>
>> And a couple not in your list Ann
>>
>> GLQ (HB) wrecked
>> GLR? (mid wing HB) wrecked
>>
>> Were there any more?
>>
>> Chris McDonnell
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Ann Woolf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

>> To: 
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 7:27 PM
>> Subject: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher
>>
>>
>> > This might help with some Reg numbers
>> >
>> > AG Jan 1968
>> >
>> > NoReg   TypeDate   Ser   Reg Owner
>> > Remarks
>> > in  No built  No
>> > Reg
>> > 
>> > 34GDH   Kingfisher ES 57/I   1956   23   J Fitz Henry  Mt Isa,

Qld
>> > 56CHD   Kingfisher ES 57II   1957   24   SP Dwyer, Kingaroy , 
>> > Qld

>> > Unairworthy being rebuilt
>> >
>> > AG Dec 1969
>> >
>> > 34GDH   Kingfisher ES 57/1   1956   23Darwin GC
>> > 56GHD   Kingfisher ES 57/2   1957   24SP Dwyer, Qld
>> > 80GRH   Kingfisher ES 57/2   1958   28Barossa Valley
>> > 83GLD   Kingfisher ES 57/21957   HBP   F A Maiden & Ptnrs 
>> > Qld

>> > 98GLB   Kingfisher ES 57/2   1957   31RAAF Pearce, Qld
>> > 103   GLS   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1959   39C E Gandy (SA)
>> > 109   GRE   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1960   42GC of WA
>> > 110   GRF   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1960   43J G Simpkins (Qld)
>> > 131   GRU   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1961   52Sunraysia GC
>> > 137   GNC   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1962   59I A MacLean  (WA)
>> > 156   GNW   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1963   HBP   J Fisher  (NSW)
>> > It's easy when you have a set of AGs on disk!
>> >
>> > Ann
>> >
>> > -- 
>> > Waikerie, S Australia

>> >
>> > ___
>> > Aus-soaring mailing list
>> > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
>> > To check or change subscription details, visit:
>> > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
>> >
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Aus-soaring mailing list
>> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
>> To check or change subscription details, visit:
>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
>>
>
> __

Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

If that was it's racing number you are certainly right.

Chris McDonnell


- Original Message - 
From: "JR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher


The numbers didnt have anything to do with serial numbers,sorry this was 
an

after thought, so the photo on wiki is it actually QZ ? regards JR
- Original Message - 
From: "Christopher Mc Donnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."

Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher



I think they are racing numbers for the era.
GQZ's (ex Conway Boomerang) serial number was 85.
Serial number 49 was a Mk lV Kookaburra.
Wha.t has this to do with Kingfishers? You've lost me.

Chris

- Original Message - 
From: "JR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."

Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher


> Chris, on the wiki site it has a boomerang ( or 2 ) in photo form, it

has
> the number 49 on its fuse, the rego given is not what I thought 49 was 
> I

> thought VH- GQZ was 49.
> regards JR
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Christopher Mc Donnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."
> 
> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 9:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher
>
>
>> Thanks Ann.
>> And for those interested
>>
>> GDH now GKN (23)  is now with Ian Patching
>> GHD (24) is in Japan
>> GRH (28) is with me
>> GLB  (31) is alive and well in WA
>> GLD  (HB) is a MYSTERY
>> GLS  (39) is alive in NSW
>> GRE  (42) is in a museum in WA
>> GRF now ZAG (43) is alive and well in QLD
>> GRU (52) is a MYSTERY
>> GNC (59) is alive and well in WA
>> GNW (HB) wrecked
>>
>> And a couple not in your list Ann
>>
>> GLQ (HB) wrecked
>> GLR? (mid wing HB) wrecked
>>
>> Were there any more?
>>
>> Chris McDonnell
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Ann Woolf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

>> To: 
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 7:27 PM
>> Subject: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher
>>
>>
>> > This might help with some Reg numbers
>> >
>> > AG Jan 1968
>> >
>> > NoReg   TypeDate   Ser   Reg Owner
>> > Remarks
>> > in  No built  No
>> > Reg
>> > 
>> > 34GDH   Kingfisher ES 57/I   1956   23   J Fitz Henry  Mt Isa,

Qld
>> > 56CHD   Kingfisher ES 57II   1957   24   SP Dwyer, Kingaroy , 
>> > Qld

>> > Unairworthy being rebuilt
>> >
>> > AG Dec 1969
>> >
>> > 34GDH   Kingfisher ES 57/1   1956   23Darwin GC
>> > 56GHD   Kingfisher ES 57/2   1957   24SP Dwyer, Qld
>> > 80GRH   Kingfisher ES 57/2   1958   28Barossa Valley
>> > 83GLD   Kingfisher ES 57/21957   HBP   F A Maiden & Ptnrs 
>> > Qld

>> > 98GLB   Kingfisher ES 57/2   1957   31RAAF Pearce, Qld
>> > 103   GLS   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1959   39C E Gandy (SA)
>> > 109   GRE   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1960   42GC of WA
>> > 110   GRF   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1960   43J G Simpkins (Qld)
>> > 131   GRU   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1961   52Sunraysia GC
>> > 137   GNC   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1962   59I A MacLean  (WA)
>> > 156   GNW   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1963   HBP   J Fisher  (NSW)
>> > It's easy when you have a set of AGs on disk!
>> >
>> > Ann
>> >
>> > -- 
>> > Waikerie, S Australia

>> >
>> > ___
>> > Aus-soaring mailing list
>> > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
>> > To check or change subscription details, visit:
>> > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
>> >
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Aus-soaring mailing list
>> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
>> To check or change subscription details, visit:
>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
>>
>
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> To check or change subscription details, visit:
> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
>


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring



___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring 



___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Thanks for the compliment Ian.
I did have a ? after GLR, so it could be GLQ.
How could we find out?
We'll leave the Kookas to Caleb

Chris McDonnell



- Original Message - 
From: "Patching" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher


Chris, Great information. One point, wasn't GLQ the mid wing? GLR, my mind 
is playing up, but a L/W Kooka???

Ian P
- Original Message - 
From: "Christopher Mc Donnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher



Thanks Ann.
And for those interested

GDH now GKN (23)  is now with Ian Patching
GHD (24) is in Japan
GRH (28) is with me
GLB  (31) is alive and well in WA
GLD  (HB) is a MYSTERY
GLS  (39) is alive in NSW
GRE  (42) is in a museum in WA
GRF now ZAG (43) is alive and well in QLD
GRU (52) is a MYSTERY
GNC (59) is alive and well in WA
GNW (HB) wrecked

And a couple not in your list Ann

GLQ (HB) wrecked
GLR? (mid wing HB) wrecked

Were there any more?

Chris McDonnell

- Original Message - 
From: "Ann Woolf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 7:27 PM
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher



This might help with some Reg numbers

AG Jan 1968

NoReg   TypeDate   Ser   Reg Owner Remarks
in  No built  No
Reg

34GDH   Kingfisher ES 57/I   1956   23   J Fitz Henry  Mt Isa, Qld
56CHD   Kingfisher ES 57II   1957   24   SP Dwyer, Kingaroy , Qld 
Unairworthy being rebuilt


AG Dec 1969

34GDH   Kingfisher ES 57/1   1956   23Darwin GC
56GHD   Kingfisher ES 57/2   1957   24SP Dwyer, Qld
80GRH   Kingfisher ES 57/2   1958   28Barossa Valley
83GLD   Kingfisher ES 57/21957   HBP   F A Maiden & Ptnrs Qld
98GLB   Kingfisher ES 57/2   1957   31RAAF Pearce, Qld
103   GLS   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1959   39C E Gandy (SA)
109   GRE   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1960   42GC of WA
110   GRF   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1960   43J G Simpkins (Qld)
131   GRU   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1961   52Sunraysia GC
137   GNC   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1962   59I A MacLean  (WA)
156   GNW   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1963   HBP   J Fisher  (NSW)
It's easy when you have a set of AGs on disk!

Ann

--
Waikerie, S Australia

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Hope your garage is not like mine
Not so urgent. Wood'nt mind waiting a while.
Damn that Goldsmith bloke, he has affected my spelling:-)
Hope to hear from you afterwoods (damn!) re wing cut issue.

Chris McDonnell

- Original Message - 
From: "Patching" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."

Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher



Easy, Geoff Hearn has the info, so do I, hang on, it's in the
garage..at least I thought it was I'll know tonight.
Ian
- Original Message - 
From: "Christopher Mc Donnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."

Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher



Thanks for the compliment Ian.
I did have a ? after GLR, so it could be GLQ.
How could we find out?
We'll leave the Kookas to Caleb

Chris McDonnell



- Original Message - 
From: "Patching" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."

Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher



Chris, Great information. One point, wasn't GLQ the mid wing? GLR, my
mind is playing up, but a L/W Kooka???
Ian P
- Original Message - 
From: "Christopher Mc Donnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."

Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher



Thanks Ann.
And for those interested

GDH now GKN (23)  is now with Ian Patching
GHD (24) is in Japan
GRH (28) is with me
GLB  (31) is alive and well in WA
GLD  (HB) is a MYSTERY
GLS  (39) is alive in NSW
GRE  (42) is in a museum in WA
GRF now ZAG (43) is alive and well in QLD
GRU (52) is a MYSTERY
GNC (59) is alive and well in WA
GNW (HB) wrecked

And a couple not in your list Ann

GLQ (HB) wrecked
GLR? (mid wing HB) wrecked

Were there any more?

Chris McDonnell

- Original Message - 
From: "Ann Woolf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 7:27 PM
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher



This might help with some Reg numbers

AG Jan 1968

NoReg   TypeDate   Ser   Reg Owner Remarks
in  No built  No
Reg

34GDH   Kingfisher ES 57/I   1956   23   J Fitz Henry  Mt Isa, Qld
56CHD   Kingfisher ES 57II   1957   24   SP Dwyer, Kingaroy , Qld
Unairworthy being rebuilt

AG Dec 1969

34GDH   Kingfisher ES 57/1   1956   23Darwin GC
56GHD   Kingfisher ES 57/2   1957   24SP Dwyer, Qld
80GRH   Kingfisher ES 57/2   1958   28Barossa Valley
83GLD   Kingfisher ES 57/21957   HBP   F A Maiden & Ptnrs Qld
98GLB   Kingfisher ES 57/2   1957   31RAAF Pearce, Qld
103   GLS   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1959   39C E Gandy (SA)
109   GRE   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1960   42GC of WA
110   GRF   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1960   43J G Simpkins (Qld)
131   GRU   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1961   52Sunraysia GC
137   GNC   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1962   59I A MacLean  (WA)
156   GNW   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1963   HBP   J Fisher  (NSW)
It's easy when you have a set of AGs on disk!

Ann

--
Waikerie, S Australia

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] Boomerang (was Kingfisher)

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

I have looked over the wreckage of GQH the second prototype Boomerang 
sitting forlornly in it's trailer at Bacchus Marsh, and even brought bits of 
it home.


The differences between the 1st & 2nd prototypes are very marked.
From off the shelf engineered parts on mine to bent plate and rods on the 

second to perform the same purposes.
Business economics at work.

The gestation of the attachment of the tailplanes to the fuselage is also 
very interesting from GQG to GQH to production models.


Chris McDonnell

- Original Message - 
From: "Catherine Conway" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'"

Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 11:28 PM
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Boomerang (was Kingfisher)



Yep I can confirm that GQZ's competition number was 49.  It still wears
that
today on top of its fin (see the small white numbers in this photo -
http://www.casa.gov.au/casadata/register/oldpics/GQZ.htm).

Its serial number was 85.  It was a Mark 1 Boomerang built in 1966 in the
first production run.

Today I'm lucky to be flying a Ventus registered GQH which was formally a
prototype Boomerang.  Chris owns the other prototype GQG.

That's a great old photo of the Boomerang  - can anyone tell me when/where
it was taken?

QZ (aka 49) still flies with a syndicate at Adelaide Uni Gliding Club but
I
don't own it any more.  But it provided me with 14 years of enjoyment.

-Cath


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:aus-soaring-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christopher Mc Donnell
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 10:14 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher

I think they are racing numbers for the era.
GQZ's (ex Conway Boomerang) serial number was 85.
Serial number 49 was a Mk lV Kookaburra.
Wha.t has this to do with Kingfishers? You've lost me.

Chris

- Original Message -
From: "JR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."

Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher


> Chris, on the wiki site it has a boomerang ( or 2 ) in photo form, it
has
> the number 49 on its fuse, the rego given is not what I thought 49 was
> I
> thought VH- GQZ was 49.
> regards JR
> - Original Message -
> From: "Christopher Mc Donnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."
> 
> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 9:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher
>
>
>> Thanks Ann.
>> And for those interested
>>
>> GDH now GKN (23)  is now with Ian Patching
>> GHD (24) is in Japan
>> GRH (28) is with me
>> GLB  (31) is alive and well in WA
>> GLD  (HB) is a MYSTERY
>> GLS  (39) is alive in NSW
>> GRE  (42) is in a museum in WA
>> GRF now ZAG (43) is alive and well in QLD
>> GRU (52) is a MYSTERY
>> GNC (59) is alive and well in WA
>> GNW (HB) wrecked
>>
>> And a couple not in your list Ann
>>
>> GLQ (HB) wrecked
>> GLR? (mid wing HB) wrecked
>>
>> Were there any more?
>>
>> Chris McDonnell
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Ann Woolf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: 
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 7:27 PM
>> Subject: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher
>>
>>
>> > This might help with some Reg numbers
>> >
>> > AG Jan 1968
>> >
>> > NoReg   TypeDate   Ser   Reg Owner
>> > Remarks
>> > in  No built  No
>> > Reg
>> > 
>> > 34GDH   Kingfisher ES 57/I   1956   23   J Fitz Henry  Mt Isa,
Qld
>> > 56CHD   Kingfisher ES 57II   1957   24   SP Dwyer, Kingaroy ,
>> > Qld
>> > Unairworthy being rebuilt
>> >
>> > AG Dec 1969
>> >
>> > 34GDH   Kingfisher ES 57/1   1956   23Darwin GC
>> > 56GHD   Kingfisher ES 57/2   1957   24SP Dwyer, Qld
>> > 80GRH   Kingfisher ES 57/2   1958   28Barossa Valley
>> > 83GLD   Kingfisher ES 57/21957   HBP   F A Maiden & Ptnrs
>> > Qld
>> > 98GLB   Kingfisher ES 57/2   1957   31RAAF Pearce, Qld
>> > 103   GLS   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1959   39C E Gandy (SA)
>> > 109   GRE   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1960   42GC of WA
>> > 110   GRF   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1960   43J G Simpkins (Qld)
>> > 131   GRU   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1961   52Sunraysia GC
>> > 137   GNC   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1962   59I A Ma

Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

What better place could a Kookaburra be than with KPST :-
But to add to confusion it has a "racing number" of 45.
Sorta like a nursing home regatta with those electric thingos they ride 
round on.
Can you remember the rego Kevin as I think Caleb White of KPST might like to 
add it to his info if he does not already have it.


Thanks

Chris McDonnell
- Original Message - 
From: "Kevin Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 7:49 PM
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher



Serial number 49 was a Mk lV Kookaburra owned by Leeton see
http://members.dodo.net.au/~annettewade/glide/kooka.html about 20 years 
ago.


Now owned by the Precision soaring team I believe

Kevin Roden

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
Christopher Mc Donnell
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 10:44 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher


I think they are racing numbers for the era.
GQZ's (ex Conway Boomerang) serial number was 85.
Serial number 49 was a Mk lV Kookaburra.
Wha.t has this to do with Kingfishers? You've lost me.

Chris

- Original Message -
From: "JR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."

Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher



Chris, on the wiki site it has a boomerang ( or 2 ) in photo form, it has
the number 49 on its fuse, the rego given is not what I thought 49 was I
thought VH- GQZ was 49.
regards JR
- Original Message -
From: "Christopher Mc Donnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."

Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher



Thanks Ann.
And for those interested

GDH now GKN (23)  is now with Ian Patching
GHD (24) is in Japan
GRH (28) is with me
GLB  (31) is alive and well in WA
GLD  (HB) is a MYSTERY
GLS  (39) is alive in NSW
GRE  (42) is in a museum in WA
GRF now ZAG (43) is alive and well in QLD
GRU (52) is a MYSTERY
GNC (59) is alive and well in WA
GNW (HB) wrecked

And a couple not in your list Ann

GLQ (HB) wrecked
GLR? (mid wing HB) wrecked

Were there any more?

Chris McDonnell

- Original Message -
From: "Ann Woolf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 7:27 PM
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher


> This might help with some Reg numbers
>
> AG Jan 1968
>
> NoReg   TypeDate   Ser   Reg Owner
> Remarks
> in  No built  No
> Reg
> 
> 34GDH   Kingfisher ES 57/I   1956   23   J Fitz Henry  Mt Isa, Qld
> 56CHD   Kingfisher ES 57II   1957   24   SP Dwyer, Kingaroy , Qld
> Unairworthy being rebuilt
>
> AG Dec 1969
>
> 34GDH   Kingfisher ES 57/1   1956   23Darwin GC
> 56GHD   Kingfisher ES 57/2   1957   24SP Dwyer, Qld
> 80GRH   Kingfisher ES 57/2   1958   28Barossa Valley
> 83GLD   Kingfisher ES 57/21957   HBP   F A Maiden & Ptnrs Qld
> 98GLB   Kingfisher ES 57/2   1957   31RAAF Pearce, Qld
> 103   GLS   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1959   39C E Gandy (SA)
> 109   GRE   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1960   42GC of WA
> 110   GRF   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1960   43J G Simpkins (Qld)
> 131   GRU   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1961   52Sunraysia GC
> 137   GNC   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1962   59I A MacLean  (WA)
> 156   GNW   Kingfisher ES 57/3   1963   HBP   J Fisher  (NSW)
> It's easy when you have a set of AGs on disk!
>
> Ann
>
> --
> Waikerie, S Australia
>
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> To check or change subscription details, visit:
> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
>


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring



___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring 



___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] Boomerang (was Kingfisher)

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Thanks Ken.
It is very nice to see that there are people "out there" who watch the list 
and contribute whenever the need arises.

Your post also illustrates that we will miss the Year Books as time goes by.
I am sure the VGA archivist will add your attachments to the records if they 
are not already there.


Regards

Chris M
cDonnell
- Original Message - 
From: "Ken Caldwell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Boomerang (was Kingfisher)



On Tue, 2006-04-11 at 23:28 +0930, Catherine Conway wrote:
Yep I can confirm that GQZ's competition number was 49.  It still wears 
that

today on top of its fin (see the small white numbers in this photo -
http://www.casa.gov.au/casadata/register/oldpics/GQZ.htm).


Regarding competition numbers, I have scanned in some pages from the
official programmes for the seventh (1966-67 Narromine) and eighth
(1967-68 Benalla) National Gliding Championships.

These pages show competition number, aircraft type, pilots and owner.
Cross referencing this information with the Gliding Register in the 1969
Australian Gliding Year Book may sort out some of the confusion.

Note that the Dubbo Grunau IV and the Kingaroy ES57 were late entries to
the seventh Nats. and the numbers may have been unofficial. The numbers
100 and 101 appear to have been allocated to a couple of Boomerangs for
the eighth nationals.

I can find no reference to an ES57 registered to the Kingaroy club in
the 1969 year book but there were several privately owned in Queensland
by then. May be one of these was the one at Narromine. I vaguely
remember someone describing it as a MkIII but I couldn't swear to it
after all it was nearly forty years ago!

I have somewhere a photo showing Boomerangs 49 and 50 in the tie down
area.

cheers,

Ken









___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring 



___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

GKN & GNZ

You now have permission to kill JR  :-)


GRH


- Original Message - 
From: "JR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher



speaking of oxymorons, ( no offence Caleb and associated members of KPST )
but RACING numbers on a kooka ?
warmest regards JR
- Original Message - 
From: "Christopher Mc Donnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."

Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher



What better place could a Kookaburra be than with KPST :-
But to add to confusion it has a "racing number" of 45.
Sorta like a nursing home regatta with those electric thingos they ride
round on.
Can you remember the rego Kevin as I think Caleb White of KPST might like

to

add it to his info if he does not already have it.

Thanks

Chris McDonnell
- Original Message - 
From: "Kevin Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."

Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 7:49 PM
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher


> Serial number 49 was a Mk lV Kookaburra owned by Leeton see
> http://members.dodo.net.au/~annettewade/glide/kooka.html about 20 years
> ago.
>
> Now owned by the Precision soaring team I believe
>
> Kevin Roden
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
> Christopher Mc Donnell
> Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 10:44 PM
> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher
>
>
> I think they are racing numbers for the era.
> GQZ's (ex Conway Boomerang) serial number was 85.
> Serial number 49 was a Mk lV Kookaburra.
> Wha.t has this to do with Kingfishers? You've lost me.
>
> Chris
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "JR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."
> 
> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 9:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher
>
>
>> Chris, on the wiki site it has a boomerang ( or 2 ) in photo form, it

has

>> the number 49 on its fuse, the rego given is not what I thought 49 was

I

>> thought VH- GQZ was 49.
>> regards JR
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Christopher Mc Donnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."
>> 
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 9:30 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher
>>
>>
>>> Thanks Ann.
>>> And for those interested
>>>
>>> GDH now GKN (23)  is now with Ian Patching
>>> GHD (24) is in Japan
>>> GRH (28) is with me
>>> GLB  (31) is alive and well in WA
>>> GLD  (HB) is a MYSTERY
>>> GLS  (39) is alive in NSW
>>> GRE  (42) is in a museum in WA
>>> GRF now ZAG (43) is alive and well in QLD
>>> GRU (52) is a MYSTERY
>>> GNC (59) is alive and well in WA
>>> GNW (HB) wrecked
>>>
>>> And a couple not in your list Ann
>>>
>>> GLQ (HB) wrecked
>>> GLR? (mid wing HB) wrecked
>>>
>>> Were there any more?
>>>
>>> Chris McDonnell
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Ann Woolf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 7:27 PM
>>> Subject: [Aus-soaring] Kingfisher
>>>
>>>
>>> > This might help with some Reg numbers
>>> >
>>> > AG Jan 1968
>>> >
>>> > NoReg   TypeDate   Ser   Reg Owner
>>> > Remarks
>>> > in  No built  No
>>> > Reg
>>> > 
>>> > 34GDH   Kingfisher ES 57/I   1956   23   J Fitz Henry  Mt Isa,

Qld

>>> > 56CHD   Kingfisher ES 57II   1957   24   SP Dwyer, Kingaroy ,

Qld

>>> > Unairworthy being rebuilt
>>> >
>>> > AG Dec 1969
>>> >
>>> > 34GDH   Kingfisher ES 57/1   1956   23Darwin GC
>>> > 56GHD   Kingfisher ES 57/2   1957   24SP Dwyer, Qld
>>> > 80GRH   Kingfisher ES 57/2   1958   28Barossa Valley
>>> > 83GLD   Kingfisher ES 57/21957   HBP   F A Maiden & Ptnrs

Qld

>>> > 98GLB   Kingfisher ES 57/2   1957   31RAAF Pearce, Qld
>>> 

Re: [Aus-soaring] Boomerang (was Kingfisher)

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Thanks again Ken.
I have been scanning GQG's log book and relating it to the Nationals events. 
Gives it a lot more character.
Nice to see that Erik Sherwin, one of the competition entrants, is learning 
to fly a KA6 again at present.


Chris McDonnell
- Original Message - 
From: "Ken Caldwell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Boomerang (was Kingfisher)



On Tue, 2006-04-11 at 23:28 +0930, Catherine Conway wrote:
Yep I can confirm that GQZ's competition number was 49.  It still wears 
that

today on top of its fin (see the small white numbers in this photo -
http://www.casa.gov.au/casadata/register/oldpics/GQZ.htm).


Regarding competition numbers, I have scanned in some pages from the
official programmes for the seventh (1966-67 Narromine) and eighth
(1967-68 Benalla) National Gliding Championships.

These pages show competition number, aircraft type, pilots and owner.
Cross referencing this information with the Gliding Register in the 1969
Australian Gliding Year Book may sort out some of the confusion.

Note that the Dubbo Grunau IV and the Kingaroy ES57 were late entries to
the seventh Nats. and the numbers may have been unofficial. The numbers
100 and 101 appear to have been allocated to a couple of Boomerangs for
the eighth nationals.

I can find no reference to an ES57 registered to the Kingaroy club in
the 1969 year book but there were several privately owned in Queensland
by then. May be one of these was the one at Narromine. I vaguely
remember someone describing it as a MkIII but I couldn't swear to it
after all it was nearly forty years ago!

I have somewhere a photo showing Boomerangs 49 and 50 in the tie down
area.

cheers,

Ken









___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring 



___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] Boomerang (was Kingfisher)

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

No problem here.

Chris McDonnell
- Original Message - 
From: "JR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Boomerang (was Kingfisher)



Ken,
the attachments were there, I couldnt open them, I dont know what you 
could

do that would enable them to be opened on my computer, but it sounds like
Ian has the same problem.
regards JR
- Original Message - 
From: "Kittel, Stephen W (ETSA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."

Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 10:10 PM
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Boomerang (was Kingfisher)




Opened and printed out quite OK here.
Thanks for the copies Ken.

Interesting representation from PAGC. Names of old members, some no
longer with us.

I note that the PAGC arrow was scratched from the 7th nats programme.
This could have been due to it being damaged in an outlanding accident.
If so, I think the team members bought a Foka (the one competing?)
immediately after the comp and then took it back to Port Augusta to try
to convince the committee to accept it!
(I still have the tail cone of that Foka in my hangar!)

Regards
SWK



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of Ken Caldwell
> Sent: Wednesday, 12 April 2006 9:57 PM
> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Boomerang (was Kingfisher)
>
> On Wed, 2006-04-12 at 20:18 +0930, JR wrote:
> > GDay Ken,
> > cant open your attachments. any chance of sending them again.
> > Regards JR
> I'm a bit puzzled. I can open the attachments to the email
> that I received from the list. I tried four different
> applications and all worked. They are all TIFF images of
> between 75 and 136 kB. Should I transcode them into a
> different format and if so what format should I use? Was
> anyone else on the list able to view them?
>
> cheers,
> Ken
>
>
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> To check or change subscription details, visit:
> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
>

**
This email and any file attachments are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom
they are addressed.
If you have received this email in error please tell us immediately
by return email and delete the document.
The information in this email expresses the opinion of the author
and does not necessarily represent the views of ETSA Utilities.
**

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring



___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

[Aus-soaring] Adelaide Hills Wave

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

You could fly it right now by the light of the 
nearly full moon with starlight above.
 
Chris McDonnell
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] good read

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Also here in Adelaide there was a long segment on TT the other night about a 
glider pilot who hit a SWER in WA.
Not a good image for gliding as the injuries were obvious but the in air 
footage was good.


Chris McDonnell


- Original Message - 
From: "Wayne Carter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 7:41 AM
Subject: [Aus-soaring] good read


Hi all, a good read about a dam-busting veteran on an AEF in NZ at this 
link: 
http://www.bayofplentytimes.co.nz/localnews/storydisplay.cfm?storyid=3676006



Wayne
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: Kingfishers WAS: [Aus-soaring] Call for photos

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Thanks so much for that info John.
Will put it with my Kingfisher info and I look forward to the photos.
All three of your dad's Kingfishers are in WA and they are the only ones 
there.
GRE is in the RAAF museum at Bull Creek and the other two are privatly 
owned.


Chris McDonnell

- Original Message - 
From: "J Hudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: Kingfishers WAS: [Aus-soaring] Call for photos



G'Day Chris,
Got to talk to my Father at Balaklava on Saturday last - about 
Kingfishers.
He flew Club - Pt Augusta and Balaklava (Balaklava had VH-GRE) for many 
years - I flew VH-GRE myself on lots of occasions, my first solo aircraft.


My Father then purchased Kingfisher VH-GLB (I think from new) - purchased 
directly from Harry Schneider. He based this glider at Port Augusta (he 
was a founding member of the Pt Augusta Club, with great guys like Geoff 
Horwood). As a (pre-gliding) kid, I remember VH-GLB as painted cream 
allover, with no other distinguishing marks.


Dad then purchased from Harry S a "kit" - the subject of a previous 
email - which he assembled/built, painted etc etc and flew - this was 
VH-GNC. I know he did lots of flying in this glider - toured the SA 
regatta circuit (which was a strong competition environment then, when I 
was "a kid"). He was then what would best be described today as a 
"Kingfisher Junkie".


Between my Father and I, we went on to own a Cherokee, an AS K14- VH - 
GYP, an AS K13 (VH-GUQ - the first of type into Australia I believe, which 
we brought in (partly finished) via Harry S, finished and had lots of 
great flying and a Motor Falke (which we still own today) - VH-HNM.


Dad has just closed his Logbook, with many keen and great memories of 
Kingfishers - still a "Kingfisher junkie".


I will drag out some pictures eventually of VH-GRE, VH-GLB and VH-GNC, and 
will provide you with copies.


With kind regards,

John Hudson


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] FW: Safety issue in the car when it'sraining-please read this! [Switch Cruise Control OFF]

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Derek,
You obviously never drove an Imp GT nor had a drive or a ride in Norm 
Beechy's Imp GT which used to clean up the Cooper S's of the time. Half a 
Coventry Climax V8 y'know, was the basis of the engine.

Unfortunatly a "coulda been" because of marketing.

Chris McDonnell

- Original Message - 
From: "Derek Ruddock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 7:49 AM
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] FW: Safety issue in the car when 
it'sraining-please read this! [Switch Cruise Control OFF]




Hillman imp and speed are two phrases that can never be associated

lol



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:aus-soaring-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Gage
Sent: Friday, 5 May 2006 5:32 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] FW: Safety issue in the car when

it'sraining-please read

this! [Switch Cruise Control OFF]

This does depend on the car being driven.

I have had cars that pick up speed in the following ways:

1. Gearbox
2. Diff
3. Front (non-driven wheel)
4. Front (driven wheel)

In the case of no. 3, it IS feasible that if cruise control was fitted

and

active, an aquaplaning front wheel would cause the speed to look like

it was

dropping and hence apply more power to the rear wheels, which in this
specific case was a rear engined car, so less likely to have the rear

wheels

aquaplane.

Ok, this couldn't have happened as this car never had a model with

cruise

control (Hillman Imp for those interested).

So it is theoretically possible, just very unlikely - I don't know of

any

car that has the right combination of factors to enable it!



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Raj
Bholanat
Sent: Friday, 5 May 2006 14:10
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] FW: Safety issue in the car when it's
raining-please read this! [Switch Cruise Control OFF]

have to agree...

this is inaccurate in so many ways.

Start with the fact that the speed sensor is connected to the

transmission

output (not the wheels).

That alone breaks down the whole argument about speeding up



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Derek
Ruddock
Sent: Friday, 5 May 2006 1:29 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] FW: Safety issue in the car when it's

raining

-please read this! [Switch Cruise Control OFF]


Typical of the nonsense that seems to propagate via the internet



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[mailto:aus-soaring-

> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alan Wilson
> Sent: Friday, 5 May 2006 1:32 PM
> To: Aus Soaring
> Subject: [Aus-soaring] FW: Safety issue in the car when it's raining
-please read
> this! [Switch Cruise Control OFF]
>
>
>
>   NEVER KNEW THIS BEFORE  ~ NEITHER DID I
>
>
>
>
> A 36-year-old female had an accident several weeks ago and Totalled
her
> car.  A resident of Wollongong, NSW, she was travelling between
> Wollongong  &  Sydney.   It was raining, though not excessively,

when

> her car suddenly   began to hydroplane and literally flew through

the

> air.
>
> She was not seriously injured but very stunned at the sudden
occurrence!
>
> When she explained  to  the  policeman  what  had  happened, he told
> her something  that  every  driver  should know - NEVER DRIVE IN THE
> RAIN  WITH   YOUR CRUISE CONTROL ON.  She had thought she was being
> cautious by setting   the cruise  control  and maintaining a safe
> consistent speed in the  rain.
>
> But the policeman told her that if the cruise control is on and your
> car  begins  to  hydroplane  -- when your tyres lose contact with

the

> pavement,   your  car  will accelerate to a higher rate of speed and
you
> take off  like   an airplane. She told the policeman that was

exactly

> what had occurred.
>
> [Actually I don't think that is the failure mode, the rear wheels
start
> spinning, cruise control sensors on the front wheels read a slow

speed

> and pours on the power, and the rear wheels spin even more]
>
> The policeman estimated her car was actually travelling through the
air
> at   10 to 15 kms per hour faster than the speed set on the  cruise
> control.
>
> The policeman said this warning  should  be  listed,  on  the

driver's

> seat   sun-visor  - NEVER USE THE CRUISE CONTROL WHEN THE
PAVEMENT
> IS
> WET OR  ICY,   along  with  the  airbag warning.  We tell our
teenagers
> to set the cruise control  and drive a safe speed - but we don't

tell

> them to use the cruise control only when the road is dry.
>
> The  only  person  the  accident  victim found, who knew this

(besides

> the policeman), was a man who had had a similar accident, totalled

his

> car  and sustained  severe  injuries.
>
> If you send this to 15 people and only one of them  doesn't kn

Re: [Aus-soaring] What the?!

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Yeah! Tom.
I look a bit like that bloke and fit the profile outlined.
You lot can continue this thread for the rest of the day.
I'm shutting down and heading off to AHSG for the day.

Chris McDonnell

- Original Message - 
From: "Tom Wilksch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] What the?!


There is no set rule to say that you cant show old people having fun in 
gliders too!  I suspect they are trying to portray the idea that gliding 
is fun and accesable to all ages.  And you're average punter has no idea 
what a PW5 is anyway as opposed to any other glider.


If it was all pic of old people then you wouldnt attract and young blood. 
If it was all young people then you wouldn't attract older people (the 
ones with the money incidently).  There has to be a mix as with 
everything.  I suspect the most important part of this picture is that he 
is clearly having fun! :-)


Tom

- Original Message - 
From: "Adam Woolley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 10:15 PM
Subject: [Aus-soaring] What the?!


This is crazy.  This months 'photo of the month' in kiwi gliding land is 
the

one attached...  What sort of image are they trying to portray - the PW5,
the blue blocker sunnys, the flannel hat

what the!?


Catchya
Woolley Pup

_
realestate.com.au: the biggest address in property
http://ninemsn.realestate.com.au








___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring






No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/334 - Release Date: 8-05-2006



--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/334 - Release Date: 8-05-2006

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] What the?!

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

I'm back from AHSG. Nice to see you all had fun with this today.
Liked Adam's picture and Derek's comment.
Perhaps we should all bring our granddaughters out to the club occasionally 
to brighten the places up and distract the pups :-)


Chris McDonnell


- Original Message - 
From: "Christopher Mc Donnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Tom Wilksch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Discussion of issues 
relating to Soaring in Australia." 

Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] What the?!



Yeah! Tom.
I look a bit like that bloke and fit the profile outlined.
You lot can continue this thread for the rest of the day.
I'm shutting down and heading off to AHSG for the day.

Chris McDonnell

- Original Message - 
From: "Tom Wilksch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] What the?!


There is no set rule to say that you cant show old people having fun in 
gliders too!  I suspect they are trying to portray the idea that gliding 
is fun and accesable to all ages.  And you're average punter has no idea 
what a PW5 is anyway as opposed to any other glider.


If it was all pic of old people then you wouldnt attract and young blood. 
If it was all young people then you wouldn't attract older people (the 
ones with the money incidently).  There has to be a mix as with 
everything.  I suspect the most important part of this picture is that he 
is clearly having fun! :-)


Tom

- Original Message - 
From: "Adam Woolley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 10:15 PM
Subject: [Aus-soaring] What the?!


This is crazy.  This months 'photo of the month' in kiwi gliding land is 
the
one attached...  What sort of image are they trying to portray - the 
PW5,

the blue blocker sunnys, the flannel hat

what the!?


Catchya
Woolley Pup

_
realestate.com.au: the biggest address in property
http://ninemsn.realestate.com.au








___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring






No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/334 - Release Date: 8-05-2006



--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/334 - Release Date: 8-05-2006

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring 



___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] What the?!

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Yeah! Had a "10" wandering around the club years ago in short shorts and 
everybody was tripping over things.

CFI closed the day down early.

Chris McDonnell


- Original Message - 
From: "JR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] What the?!



That would be courting disaster I think
JR
- Original Message - 
From: "Christopher Mc Donnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."
; "Tom Wilksch"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] What the?!



I'm back from AHSG. Nice to see you all had fun with this today.
Liked Adam's picture and Derek's comment.
Perhaps we should all bring our granddaughters out to the club

occasionally

to brighten the places up and distract the pups :-)

Chris McDonnell


- Original Message - 
From: "Christopher Mc Donnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Tom Wilksch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Discussion of issues
relating to Soaring in Australia." 
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] What the?!


> Yeah! Tom.
> I look a bit like that bloke and fit the profile outlined.
> You lot can continue this thread for the rest of the day.
> I'm shutting down and heading off to AHSG for the day.
>
> Chris McDonnell
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Tom Wilksch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."
> 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 10:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] What the?!
>
>
>> There is no set rule to say that you cant show old people having fun 
>> in

>> gliders too!  I suspect they are trying to portray the idea that

gliding

>> is fun and accesable to all ages.  And you're average punter has no

idea

>> what a PW5 is anyway as opposed to any other glider.
>>
>> If it was all pic of old people then you wouldnt attract and young

blood.

>> If it was all young people then you wouldn't attract older people (the
>> ones with the money incidently).  There has to be a mix as with
>> everything.  I suspect the most important part of this picture is that

he

>> is clearly having fun! :-)
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Adam Woolley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

>> To: 
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 10:15 PM
>> Subject: [Aus-soaring] What the?!
>>
>>
>>> This is crazy.  This months 'photo of the month' in kiwi gliding land

is

>>> the
>>> one attached...  What sort of image are they trying to portray - the
>>> PW5,
>>> the blue blocker sunnys, the flannel hat
>>>
>>> what the!?
>>>
>>>
>>> Catchya
>>> Woolley Pup
>>>
>>> _
>>> realestate.com.au: the biggest address in property
>>> http://ninemsn.realestate.com.au
>>>
>>
>>


-

---

>>
>>
>>> ___
>>> Aus-soaring mailing list
>>> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
>>> To check or change subscription details, visit:
>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
>>
>>


-

---

>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/334 - Release Date:

8-05-2006

>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> No virus found in this outgoing message.

>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/334 - Release Date:

8-05-2006

>>
>> ___
>> Aus-soaring mailing list
>> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
>> To check or change subscription details, visit:
>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
>>
>
>
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> To check or change subscription details, visit:
> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] GQ AGM this Sunday at Archerfield (Aero Club)

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Good work Robert.
If the disease spreads upwards I might even rejoin the GFA.

Chris McDonnell

- Original Message - 
From: "Robert Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CGC List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "DDSC Chat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
"Soaring in Australia." 

Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 8:36 AM
Subject: [Aus-soaring] GQ AGM this Sunday at Archerfield (Aero Club)



Hi

The Gliding Queensland AGM is this Sunday at Archerfield.

In addition to the usual reports from current officers and elections of 
new officers, the AGM will also be considering amendments to the GQ 
constitution that will introduce region wide postal voting for all GQ 
positions (including the GFA board representative). This is a 'first' for 
fully democratic elections within the GFA and its regions.


This is a very important step forward for GQ as it will enable all members 
across our very large region to participate directly and democratically in 
the choice of the officers who will operate Gliding Queensland on their 
behalf, whether they can attend the AGM or not.


GQ has been taking a much more active role of recent years and has 
implemented a number of important initiatives (such as mandatory FLARM at 
Qld competitions, the implementation of a sports psychology policy and 
various safety initiatives). GQ has also proposed a number of items to the 
GFA board and I do not doubt will continue to do so.


If you live in Qld or northern NSW, GQ is your regional gliding 
organisation and these amendments are designed to make it easier for you 
to have your say. Qld is the only region showing strong growth in 
membership numbers - let's keep it that way by having at least our 
regional gliding organisation putting its efforts into the right 
initiatives - and that requires YOUR input!


--
Robert Hart  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+61 (0)438 385 533   http://www.hart.wattle.id.au


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring 



___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] GQ AGM this Sunday at Archerfield (Aero Club)

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Waiting-- good luck.

Chris McDonnell


- Original Message - 
From: "Robert Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] GQ AGM this Sunday at Archerfield (Aero Club)



Christopher Mc Donnell wrote:

Good work Robert.
If the disease spreads upwards I might even rejoin the GFA.
Well - I hope we can accommodate you that way - but first let's get this 
approved (and show that it works) in Qld!


--
Robert Hart  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+61 (0)438 385 533   http://www.hart.wattle.id.au


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] GQ AGM this Sunday at Archerfield (Aero Club)

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Good work Robert.

Chris McDonnell


- Original Message - 
From: "Robert Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] GQ AGM this Sunday at Archerfield (Aero Club)



Christopher Mc Donnell wrote:

Waiting-- good luck.

Well - the GQ meeting was held today and the constitutional amendments 
were approved. So next year the GQ elections will be held via postal vote.


I now have to write an article for the soaring mag to outline what we have 
done and why...but that will have to wait until I get back from overseas 
in July.


--
Robert Hart  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+61 (0)438 385 533   http://www.hart.wattle.id.au


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

[Aus-soaring] Genave Alpha 100

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Would John Giddy please contact me off list as to 
whether he got the maintenance manual for the above.
 
Chris McDonnell
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] Apologies

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Good thing young Wooley does not represent 
Australia in the World Spelling Comps ;-)

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dav 
  To: 'Discussion of issues 
  relating to Soaring in Australia.' 
  Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 1:51 
  PM
  Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] 
Apologies
  
  
  Yes its Obvios I’d 
  say…..! (-:
   
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of PatchingSent: Thursday, 1 June 2006 1:45 
  PMTo: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in 
  Australia.Subject: [Aus-soaring] 
  Apologies
   
  
  Yeah, yeah... sorry that email got 
  sent to the list! Mistake obviosuly on my 
  part.
  
   
  
  Cheers,
  
  Ian 
  P
  
  

  ___Aus-soaring mailing 
  listAus-soaring@lists.internode.on.netTo check or change subscription 
  details, 
visit:http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

[Aus-soaring] Headwear

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Peter advised:
 
"Aged 55yrs but 
wears an Arab Hat "
 
Could Peter please advise the required folds of the 
cloth.
 
C Bin Donnell
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

[Aus-soaring] WC team

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Our CFI is on the verge of applying for a carers 
allowance as most members are now entitled to the Seniors 
Card.
 
We don't need the "slip & skid" 
anymore.
We just assess whether we are drooling from the 
high or low side of the turn. :-)
 
Chris McDonnell AHSG
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] WC team

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Thank you Gus.
Glider pilot Ratty would be pleased by your 
comments.
Messin about is nice ain't it.
 
Chris McDonnell

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Gus 
  Stewart 
  To: Discussion of issues relating 
  to Soaring in Australia. 
  Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 12:35 
PM
  Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] WC team
  
  Wow.
  
  I was going to write a reply to that, but it appears Mark has done it for 
  me. Thankyou!
   
  Firstly, there are a number of reasons that Juniors choose to attend 
  Joeyglide.
  Some have aspirations of winning the competition, and they will gear 
  themselves throughout the competition, not drink etc, in order to win. All the 
  pilots are well informed of the problems about dehydration, and I don't think 
  anyone at the last competition was stupid enough to risk their safety for the 
  sake of a drink. 
   
  In my own case, JoeyGlide was an opportunity for a SOCIAL week of flying 
  with other pilots my own age. I don't get enough time off during the year to 
  hone my skills thoroughly enough to be up in the top 5, so I go to fly as well 
  as I can, but also to enjoy one of the few holidays I get per year. I've been 
  flying for almost 10 years now, and competition still doesn't rate all that 
  highly for me. I'm stoked if I get in the top 10 on any particular day, 
  but it isn't the only reason to be there! 
   
  I'm very much looking forward to this year's Joeyglide, and I'd like to 
  knock off a 500 whilst I'm there, but I'm also looking forward to having a 
  drink or two with the many "characters" that I've met in the past comps. And 
  I'm sure they don't mind the opportunity to heckle me a little either whilst 
  we're all around the bar :-) I don't think we can deny the 
  importance of social interaction in terms of retaining Juniors in the sport. 
  After all, have some of the older members considered that being around people 
  the same age with same interests is one of the prime motivations for going to 
  the club on the weekend? 
   
  Anyway, I'll leave it there for now. Bring on JoeyGlide 2006 !
   
  Cheers,
   
  Gus
   
  On 6/5/06, Mark 
  Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  wrote: 
  Dav 
wrote:> Mark said:>> perhaps for lots of attendees Joey 
Glide is more about having fun >> with friends than about the 
actual competition...?)>> Call me old fashioned, but I thought 
competition was what a contest was for.You're looking at it as a 
one-dimensional axis, where the only important thing is the 
competitiveness.  I suspect most of the attendees have a mixof 
priorities and goals when they attend.>> When 90% of the 
pilots attending the comp aren't flying competitively,>> maybe 
that doesn't matter so much (see next comment) >> Then as I 
said a regatta/camp style event might be a better option?Maybe the 
95% of pilots who attend who aren't hotshots view it as ifit already 
-is- a regatta/camp.  After all, apart from scale, what's the 
difference anyway?  Hold a club regatta and hand out bottles 
ofwine^H^H^H^Hred cordial to the winners;  Hold a championship 
and handout trophies and prestige.  If you're not standing on 
the podium duringthe presentation ceremony it really makes very little 
difference.Not that I'm wanting to suggest that you're usurping the 
Juniors' abilitiesto make their own informed decisions here, but have 
you actually /asked/ any of them about how highly they rated 
competitiveness when theyattended?  Nothing loses respect more 
than someone their father's agetelling them what their priorities are 
supposed to be without listeningto find out what their priorities 
*actually are*.You work in a school, so I suspect you know 
this.  But for some reasonthat knowledge isn't important to 
you right now.>> I also firmly believe that junior events 
should be alcohol free during the >> event after experiencing the 
last Joey glide.>> Well, gee, that'll see them flocking to the 
event, won't it?>> It won't make any difference to under 18's, 
of whom 16, more than 30%> attended the last Joey glide Mark as it is 
*illegal* for them to drink.> Unless you think they should be 
drinking underage?> Mark, do you think drinking alcohol still at 
Midnight before a flying> contest day is appropriate? What I 
think about that isn't relevant, because regardless of whetheror not I 
approve, the attendees will make their own decisions.Just like they 
will regardless of whether or not you approve too.Might I also 
suggest that in my experience a far greater influence thanmoney on 
whether or not a "junior" takes up gliding is the presence orabsence of 
authoritarian figures expressing disapproval of their culture and 
telling them what to do.  A teenager will spend a *LOT* of money 
todo something they love, but they'll stay away in droves if 
they'redisrespected while they're doing it. 

Re: [Aus-soaring] Re: Dumb rules

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Wondered when you would arrive Mike?
Good to hear from you.

Chris

- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Borgelt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 1:32 PM
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Re: Dumb rules



At 10:01 AM 5/06/2006, you wrote:


So there'll need to be a regulatory change.  People don't need to be
members of clubs with committees and CFIs to fly Cessnas, perhaps they
don't need to be to fly gliders either.


Should have been done long ago. This has already resulted in the demise or 
non flying status of a number of gliding clubs and makes gliding in the 
remoter areas nearly impossible even when someone gets a self launcher. 
One guy in a remoter part of Queensland  bought a self launcher but was 
told to go and fly it out of Narromine. He did have a PPL and a cessna 182 
too. Strange behaviour from an organisation set up to promote gliding.


Mostly these people join RAAus, buy an aircraft and forget about gliding.

To quote the President of our local EAA Chapter (who flys a RAAus 
registered Corby Starlet) " Went out the local gliding club one Sunday 
morning recently at around 10am and ran into a bloke who in response to 
"this gliding's great fun isn't it" replied "yes but its 10am and we 
aren't going to start flying for quite a while yet" - then saw the Corby, 
asked about it and disappeared in search of  an RAAus school in his Audi."


Mike


Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments
phone Int'l + 61 746 355784
fax   Int'l + 61 746 358796
cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784
  Int'l + 61 429 355784
email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
website: www.borgeltinstruments.com

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

[Aus-soaring] Ageing Gliding Demographic

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Hi all,
 
I have been working on my Boomer 
fuselage (what else would a baby boomer of 1946 fly) in the sun on my 
front verandah today.
I have been installing a aerourinal as I find as I 
age dehydration knocks me around a lot more and it's antidote is not compatible 
with my ageing bladder.
 
After carefully routing the sullage line to ensure 
it did not inhibit any control circuits or other mechanisms I reinstalled the 
seat pan and sat in the glider. All was OK and the penile receptacle positioned 
perfectly. When I went to test it I found my pants had no fly.
 
Assuming voice of HG:
 
MEN, do you realise that this 
is part of an international female plot to make us take our pants off to pee 
as women have had to do for millenia? Is your wardrobe slowly filling, like 
mine, with shorts/pants that have no fly and worse still have, as well as 
elastic, drawstrings that knot when you are caught short at either end and 
cannot get undone?
 
Sitting there in the cockpit on the front 
verandah I contemplated the number of times over the past couple of years I have 
had to pee at the airstrip or in my paddocks with my arse freezing as my pants 
are down around my knees. I contemplated the number of times I have almost 
shat my pants because I had double knoted the drawstring, to ensure the knot did 
not slip and let the shorts/pants slide down, and could not get the knot 
undone.
 
There are three solutions to this 
problem:
 
1. Buy your own 
shorts /pants.
2. Request your partner to only buy 
shorts/pants for you with flys.
3. Wear you pyjama pants when you go gliding 
like IP.
 
Chris McDonnell
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] Ageing Gliding Demographic

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Mark wrote:

"Much easier than trying to pull the underwear elastic down."

Ooh!  You are young.  Us OFITTH's wear Y fronts.

Chris McDonnell

- Original Message - 
From: "Mark Newton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Christopher Mc Donnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Ageing Gliding Demographic



Christopher Mc Donnell wrote:



/There are three solutions to this problem:/
// 
/1. Buy your own shorts /pants./

/2. Request your partner to only buy shorts/pants for you with flys./
/3. Wear you pyjama pants when you go gliding like IP./
// 


Worth noting that loose boxer sorts with a button-up fly are much more
convenient than tighty-whiteys when you need to piss in a glider.
Much easier than trying to pull the underwear elastic down and attempt
to hold it out of the way while you fiddle around with the aforementioned
attachment...

(assuming it isn't connected pre-flight)

  - mark


I tried an internal modem,[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 but it hurt when I walked.  Mark Newton
- Voice: +61-4-1620-2223 - Fax: +61-8-82231777 -



___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] Enough!

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Did'nt you see the quote for the toilet refurbishments at Caleb's club?

- Original Message - 
From: "Graeme Cant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 2:52 AM
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Enough!



>From: "Caleb White" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

I'm sure I'm not the only who thinks that this has gone on long enough. 
It's about time that we all go and get a life (myself included) before 
someone else makes this same suggestion. After all, we all have more 
similarities than differences in opinions, we all love soaring. Gliding 
has many more serious issues that could profit from such rigorous debate.


Are you talking about peeing on a glider field or the problem of pants 
with no fly, Caleb?


Graeme


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

[Aus-soaring] Towing Gear

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Anybody ever driven all the way home with it still 
attached to the vehicle?
 
Just curious.
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] Oh dear I'm getting too lazy...

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Where is Amys Avia?

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Coleman, Ben (RTCA) 
  To: Discussion of issues relating 
  to Soaring in Australia. 
  Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 9:08 AM
  Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Oh dear I'm 
  getting too lazy...
  
  BTW the polish 
  tyres are available from Wieslaw at Amys Avia.
   
  Cheers,
  Ben Coleman  
   -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Kittel, 
  Stephen W (ETSA)Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 9:17 AMTo: 
  Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.Subject: 
  [Aus-soaring] Oh dear I'm getting too lazy...
  
to ring around.
 
Looking for a new tyre for a Jantar. It's 350x135, 
same size as Blaniks etc.
 
Who sells 'em?
 
 

  
  
**This 
  email and any file attachments are confidential andintended solely 
  for the use of the individual or entity to whomthey are addressed. 
  If you have received this email in error please tell us 
  immediatelyby return email and delete the document. The 
  information in this email expresses the opinion of the author and 
  does not necessarily represent the views of ETSA 
  Utilities.**
  
  

  ___Aus-soaring mailing 
  listAus-soaring@lists.internode.on.netTo check or change subscription 
  details, 
visit:http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: RE: [Aus-soaring] GPS errors!

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Spoke to recent South African emigre' the other day who has seen a big white 
bird stomped all over by a female elephant when it landed in a field near 
her calf.



- Original Message - 
From: "JR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 6:55 PM
Subject: Re: RE: [Aus-soaring] GPS errors!



G'Day Caleb,
Nice paint scheme. werent you worried about the elephant wearing the
sunglasses in the background, a stampede could have trashed a nice
aeroplane.
regards JR
- Original Message - 
From: "Caleb White" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: RE: [Aus-soaring] GPS errors!


Hi Dav,

Attached is a photograph of the Super Goose in it's new stealth paint
scheme.

Cheers,

Caleb

-Original Message-
From: "Dav" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'"

Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 14:32:12 +0930
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] GPS errors!

Good one Caleb,

This brings to mind a quote from AG some years ago

4."How can you be lost if you don't care where you are?"

(Pilot, after trying to relay vague location of out landed glider over
radio)

(-:

Dav

PS Caleb, have you painted your Super Goose yet? If so are there any
pictures? Would like to see.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caleb 
White

Sent: Tuesday, 13 June 2006 2:11 PM
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] GPS errors!

Hi all,

GPS going down won't change much for the Kookaburra Precision Soaring 
Team.

We don't use GPS because:

1.Installing GPS would double the cost of the glider.
2.If we knew how far we had to go we would never attempt it in the first
place.
3.We have not yet found a manufacturer that is prepared to install another
digit on the 'height required' display.

Caleb

KPST


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring












___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring 



___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] Bent up wing outer panels

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

John Howard is fielding the possibility of selling Uranium to the Indians 
under certain conditions.
I hope one of those conditions is that their call centres are not to ring 
any Australian numbers. :-)


Chris McDonnell


- Original Message - 
From: "JR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Bent up wing outer panels



Ian,
I spoke to the worlds fastest Indian on the phone last night, he was 
trying

to convert me to another phone company
regards JR
- Original Message - 
From: "Patching" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."

Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Bent up wing outer panels



Hey caleb,
 the kookas' all have a decided wing kink as well. Just goes to proove 
the

everything stays the same, it just gets refined a little.
See ya, I'm off to see the Worlds Fastest Indian.
IP
KPST
- Original Message - 
From: "Caleb White" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Bent up wing outer panels


> Hi Folks,
>
> I think this discussion needs some clarification as to what is referred

to

> as a ‘kink’. Are we referring the stepped taper (when viewed in plan

form

> from above) as the ‘kinks’? In which case we are discussing the desire

to

> achieve an elliptical plan form (with the intent of achieving an
> elliptical lift distribution) OR Are we discussing the stepped changes

in

> dihedral in which case we are talking about achieving elliptical

dihedral?

>
> As with all aircraft design the design of sailplane wings is a

compromise.

> What is desirable is balanced with what is affordable to manufacture. A
> stepped planform and dihedral is an excellent example of ‘optimised
> compromise’.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Caleb
>
> Kookaburra Precision Soaring Team
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mike Borgelt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."
> 
> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:46:06 +1000
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Bent up wing outer panels
>
> At 11:57 AM 20/06/2006, you wrote:
>>Dear All (Bernard E would read this as 'space' but I'll stay with the
>>English)
>>
>>There is the limitation in two dimensional aerodynamics of a minimum
>>in the induced drag coefficient of:
>>
>> Cd (induced) = Cl squared divided by (Pi X Aspect
>> ratio).  (Apologies, I haven't the time to write it out clearer.)
>>
>>So with an ideal lift distribution along the two dimensional wing
>>planform, that is the lowest you can get the induced drag
>>coefficient down to.  Induced drag relates to drag due to wing tip
>>vortices (actually more complicated than just tip vortices but let
>>us leave that for now).
>>
>>I think somewhere I have in my overloaded filing cabinets an article
>>from a learned aerospace journal which deals with induced drag for
>>wings operating in three dimensions.  My recollection (unchecked
>>because the article is somewhere misplaced) was that when the wing
>>was considered to operate in three dimensions, and computing power
>>was brought to bear on the calculations, a slender wing with the
>>outer sections bending upwards and backwards could achieve an
>>induced drag coefficient BELOW the minimum as determined from two
>>dimensional aerodynamics.
>>
>>I remember when the Nimbus 4 first came out and there was a photo of
>>the 25 m wings bending significantly upwards during steep
>>thermalling turning.  So we have with our sailplanes with higher
>>aspect ratios and more slender spars wings which are operating in
>>three dimensions.
>>
>>So I do not think that wing kinks in the outer wing panels are a
>>fashion statement or a marketing ploy, but rather founded on serious
>>efforts to reduce drag.
>>
>>Beyond that I leave it to some far more knowledgeable person on wing
>>aerodynamics to provide futher illumination on the matter.
>>
>>Cheers
>>
>>Roger Druce
>>
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>
>
> Roger,
>
> I think I have the same article by the late R.T.Jones of NACA and
> later NASA reknown. I guess the issue is - does the discontinuity at
> the kink increase the profile drag more than the 3D nature of the
> bent wing decreases it.
>
> The tendency at a kink is for the leading edge discontinuity to trip
> flow to turbulent and for the airfoil to stall earlieralthough it
> would seem you would need a fairly marked kink for this to occur.
> Allegedly this is what happened on the F4U Corsair(the earlier stall
> in the kink.
>
> Mike
> Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments
> phone Int'l + 61 746 355784
> fax   Int'l + 61 746 358796
> cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784
>   Int'l + 61 429 355784
> email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> website: www.borgeltinstruments.com
>
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@li

Re: [Aus-soaring] aerotow

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

A tug "'wave off" would create a rather original version of the Mexican wave 
:-)


Chris McDonnell


- Original Message - 
From: "John Parncutt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 6:45 PM
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] aerotow



gee, so thats where all the Blaniks went!

John

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike
Borgelt
Sent: Wednesday, 21 June 2006 10:38 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] aerotow






One way to avoid long launch queues

www.aero.sk/c/2759065/Ocovski-bacovia-vytiahli-do-vzduchu-sucasne-devat-klza
kov.html

Mike


Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments
phone Int'l + 61 746 355784
fax   Int'l + 61 746 358796
cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784
  Int'l + 61 429 355784
email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
website: www.borgeltinstruments.com

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

[Aus-soaring] Marketing Gliding

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Hi all,
 
In front of me on my desk I have a copy of a 
full broadsheet page advertisment from the Womens Weekly 
of 31/5/1961.
You know, the womens' magazine that blokes 
don't read though our fathers' quarreled over the few copies of it 
available in the western desert to the islands in WWII.
 
It is a colour picture of a Kingfisher (factory 
blue) with a a trendy 60's couple (she in check slacks naturally but he without 
the mandatory cigarette or pipe) drinking Nescafe in the shade of the 
wing with the Nescafe bits only taking a small percentage of the page & 
picture.
 
Do you remember how horrible that 1960's substitute 
coffee tasted?
 
Would'nt we kill for that sort of exposure 
today.
 
Would make a lovely "retro" cover for "the 
magazine" whatever they call it these days.
 
Chris McDonnell 
 
 
 
 
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

[Aus-soaring] Hypo oxia

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

.and I invented the word 'transonic' We had found that a word 
was needed to denote the critical speed range of which we were talking. We could 
not agree whether it should be written with one 's' or two. Dryden was logical 
and wanted two s's. I thought it wasn't necessary always to be logical in 
aeronautics, so I wrote it with one s. 
 
 Seems Michael Texler's convenience hypothesis 
prevails around aeroplanes.:-)
 
Chris McDonnell
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] Looking for a glider...

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Sounds a bit like the mythical MG TC's & TD's of lads who went to Korea and 
left with Mum & Dad, not to mention Spitfires & Mustangs still in their 
crates "somewhere" in Australia. Plenty of unloved wood around though :-)


Good luck though Adam, it would be nice if you find something.

Chris


- Original Message - 
From: "Adam Woolley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 7:53 PM
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Looking for a glider...



G'day All,

Just wondering whether anyone knows of any gliders (particulary: Std 
Cirrus, Cirrus 75, LS4 or Discus) that have been put into a 
trailer/storage and have been forgotten about (by their owners)?


I'm looking for a glider to look after, form 2, insure, improve, compete 
in and fly at every oppertunity.


If you know of some possibilities, please give me an e-mail: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



SeeYou,
Adam

_
Research and compare new cars side by side at carpoint.com.au 
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fai%5F833884&_t=54321&_r=hotmail_endtext&_m=EXT


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Fw: [Aus-soaring] Marketing Gliding

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

From the Australian Womens Weekly index 
1946-1971
 
Aeroplane really!  And I'd like to see 
them sitting next to it if it was moving.  Journo's and aviation never seem 
to mix well.
 

Nescafé... no other coffee, no matter how it's made, tastes so fresh, so 
friendly, so completely satisfyingMay 31st, 1961; p48 
Item type: advertisementBrand/Product/Company: 
Nescafé 
Instant Coffee 
Visual image:A photograph of a man and woman pictured sitting outdoors, 
on a field of grass, next to a small aeroplane which is stationary, and drinking 
a cup of coffee. The woman wears a scarf around her hair and sips her coffee. 
The man leans against the nose of the plane and smiles as he holds a cup of 
coffee in both hands and gazes at the woman. Beside him, on the grass is a 
thermos. There is also a photo of a tin of Nescafé Instant Coffee and 
forty-three coffee beans that have been arranged in the shape of a coffee cup. 
Full page. 
Descriptors: Coffee, 
Relaxation, 
Leisure, 
Outdoors, 
Air transportation
- Original Message - 
From: Christopher Mc Donnell 
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net 

Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 9:01 PM
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Marketing Gliding

Hi all,
 
In front of me on my desk I have a copy of a 
full broadsheet page advertisment from the Womens Weekly 
of 31/5/1961.
You know, the womens' magazine that blokes 
don't read though our fathers' quarreled over the few copies of it 
available in the western desert to the islands in WWII.
 
It is a colour picture of a Kingfisher (factory 
blue) with a a trendy 60's couple (she in check slacks naturally but he without 
the mandatory cigarette or pipe) drinking Nescafe in the shade of the 
wing with the Nescafe bits only taking a small percentage of the page & 
picture.
 
Do you remember how horrible that 1960's substitute 
coffee tasted?
 
Would'nt we kill for that sort of exposure 
today.
 
Would make a lovely "retro" cover for "the 
magazine" whatever they call it these days.
 
Chris McDonnell 
 
 
 
 



___Aus-soaring mailing 
listAus-soaring@lists.internode.on.netTo check or change subscription 
details, 
visit:http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

[Aus-soaring] Caleb

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Please contact me off list.
 
Chris McDonnell
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] Warm clothing for high flights

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Anthony said:

"My choice of late has been a pair of sturdy, but comfy
leather walking boots that are roomy enough for two pairs of socks."

I have always worn sturdy footwear in the gliding environment, especially on 
the ground.

Anthony adds another reason for me to do so.
For me it does not seem to inhibit sensitivity to rudder feedback as I 
suspect you feel this in the ankles anyway.
The smell of some of those out of fashion runners relegated to going gliding 
is disgusting anyway :-)


Chris McDonnell

- Original Message - 
From: "Anthony Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'" 


Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 7:27 PM
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Warm clothing for high flights



My two bits worth.  etc.




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] glider transport?

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Chris

Pity you did'nt post earlier.
I could have done the Adelaide-Bordertown leg for you last Friday :-(

Chris McDonnell


- Original Message - 
From: "Patching" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring 
in Australia." 

Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 10:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] glider transport?



Chris
If you can get it to Bordertown in the next 2 weeks I could bring it back 
to Melbourne. Just cover the petrol.

Ian P.

- Original Message - 
From: "Chris Kiehn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'" 


Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 8:16 PM
Subject: [Aus-soaring] glider transport?


If anyone knows of someone travelling west to east and is happening to 
pass
through Adelaide and they have a tow hitch which is being dragged behind 
a

car and not doing much, the mighty Cirrus is needing to get back to the
eastern seaboard (eventually to Canberra) before it heads off to its new
owner.
Please contact me to discuss the finer details.

Thanks
Chris

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring


--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 7/07/2006




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] The GFA and the RPPL

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

" it will mainly be used to define something the Europeans can accept."

Rest of the world too I would hope.

Chris McDonnell

- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Cleaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 12:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] The GFA and the RPPL



All that Mike B says here is correct UNTIL YOU REACH THE LAST LINE.

That is pure fancy and does not accord with reality. CASR Part 61 will 
emerge from the cutting-room floor late this year if Bruce Byron's 
timetable can be met by the Attorney-General's Department, and will have a 
Recreational Pilot Licence available with aeroplane and rotorcraft 
ratings. There are many who hope that somewhere in it will be a point of 
direct equivalence to the RA-Aus and ASRA certificates. so as to make it 
simpler for people who wish to change over from one system to the other.


Balloon licences are proposed to be in Part 115B rather than Part 61, with 
a PPL at an equivalence point to the ICAO Balloon Licence that the ABF 
will also adopt for their certificate - it involves one hour additional 
training but allows a 16-year-old to hold the licence.


Whether or not there will be a glider pilot licence remains to be seen - 
even I do not know yet, though I suspect not at this stage. If there is, 
it will mainly be used to define something the Europeans can accept.


I'm out of the system for 6 weeks now. so be nice to each other.

Wombat

At 18:16 10/07/2006, you wrote:

At 05:44 PM 10/07/2006, you wrote:

Hi

There has been recent referral to this issue that arose some years ago. 
As I was unsure on the exact history, I have checked and I am advised of 
the following which I hope clarifies the history of this issue.
The RPPL was proposed to cover operations not currently subject to a CASA 
licence (PPL) - specifically, those covered by an RAAuz certificate and 
either a GFA or HGFA log book authority.  The intent of the proposal was 
to expand the coverage of CASA licences and it was never the intention 
that pilots or operations currently covered by a CASA PPL would be 
allowed under a RPPL.  This move was to up the minimum requirements, not 
reduce them.





Who told you that? I suggest you read the original CASA proposal.

I actually got the proposal from CASA. Whilst what you say is partly true 
as far as it goes, the proposal also covered the many people who currently 
hold a GFPT which is roughly the equivalent of the old restricted PPL 
which is what many tug pilots used to fly on as they had no need to fly 
powered aircraft cross country. The problem with a GFPT is that you cannot 
do a daily inspection on the aircraft you are about to fly and there are 
severe limits on how long you can fly without an instructor etc etc. CASA 
actually recognised that the GFPT was limiting and were keen to get back 
to something like the old Restricted licence as they recognised that the 
GFPT rules were too restrictive. I discussed this at some length with the 
CFI of the Darling Downs Aero club at the time.


The glider and ultralight proposals were that you could get a CASA licence 
to cover these operations and it was explicitly stated that this would run 
in parallel with the systems run by the GFA and RAAus  and it would be up 
to individuals to get a CASA licence if they wished. There was no 
intention to replace the sport aviation systems as such.


Did you find out why CASA and RAAus went to the Minister to shot down the 
CASA proposal?


Mike
Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments
phone Int'l + 61 746 355784
fax   Int'l + 61 746 358796
cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784
  Int'l + 61 429 355784
email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
website: www.borgeltinstruments.com

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring




___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring