[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Burwell Lute Tutor Pieces
Your Scribd page has amazing treasures, Ernst!
Rob MacKillop
On Sun, 3 May 2020 at 10:19, <[1]fischer...@aon.at> wrote:
Dear lute friends,
As you most probably know, the "Burwell Lute Tutor" is a
manuscript
tutor for the baroque lute. The manuscript is Miss Mary Burwell's
(born
1654) copy of a method written by an Englishman (the name Mr.
John
Rogers has been suggested) who claims was himself a pupil of the
French
Ennemond Gaultier. The teacher corrected Miss Burwell's copy of
the
text and filled in the music examples. Both the "Burwell Lute
Tutor"
and "The Lute Made Easie" (by Thomas Mace, London, 1676) are two
very
authentic and surviving sources of its time teaching in great
detail
from A to Z how to play the baroque lute.
For teaching practice, the manuscript contains examples of
French-style
lute pieces, mainly fragments and sometimes individual bars only.
The
music examples are chaotic, with both teacher and pupil
contributing to
mistakes Some of the pieces are known, and concordances exist in
other
lute manuscripts, other pieces are new and unique.
Over the last months or so I tried playing nearly all pieces
after I
identified (if possible), corrected and completed majority of the
pieces from the Burwell Lute Tutor.
Please find here the link to my compilation of baroque lute
pieces from
the "Burwell Lute Tutor":
[1][2]http://www.apeptico.com/index-burwell_lute_tutor
Please stay healthy and resist Corona!
Ernst Bernhard ("viennalute") from Vienna.
--
References
1. [3]http://www.apeptico.com/index-burwell_lute_tutor
To get on or off this list see list information at
[4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. mailto:fischer...@aon.at
2. http://www.apeptico.com/index-burwell_lute_tutor
3. http://www.apeptico.com/index-burwell_lute_tutor
4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Lute recordings
That's an incredible contribution you've made, Bernhard! And free too. I urge people to listen to them. This is a great use of the Internet. Rob www.robmackillop.net > On 14 Jan 2018, at 16:59, Fischer BE (Aon) <fischer...@aon.at> wrote: > > Dear lute friends, > > > Happy New Year to all of you from Vienna. > > > Following a suggestion made by my Scottish friend Rob I have uploaded > my baroque lute tracks into two audio channels at SoundCloud > ([1]www.soundcloud.com): [2]Viennalute 1 and [3]Viennalute 2. > > [4]Viennalute 1 presents my recordings of baroque lute pieces > originating from the historic Austria Habsburg territory and baroque > lute pieces from manuscripts and sources today preserved in Austria. > > [5]Viennalute 2 presents my recordings of baroque lute pieces composed > by German, French and English lute composers and baroque lute pieces > from manuscripts and sources today preserved in Germany, France and > Great Britain. > > Many of these pieces have not been played for the last three hundred > years or so, and have not been recorded. > > > Content of Viennalute 1 > > [6]Baroque Lute Pieces from Vienna MS 1078 (incl. Pieces by Giuseppe > Porsile (Borsilli) and Comte Bergen) > > [7]Pieces for baroque lute from the Vienna manuscript MS 17706 (incl. > pieces by DuFault, DuBut, Bertelli, Gallot) > > [8]Baroque lute pieces composed by Johann Gotthard Peyer from the > Vienna manuscript Ms Hs 18826 > > [9]Allemande and Sarabande in G Major from the Vienna MS 18761 (incl. > pieces my Mr. Weiss) > > [10]Pieces for Baroque Lute composed by Philipp Franz LeSage de Richee > (from Cabinet der Lauten) > > [11]Pieces for baroque lute in c minor composed by Joseph I and > Austrian Lute Master (incl. pieces by Joseph I and Wolff Jacob > Lauffensteiner, MS A.13.268 and Vienna MS 120) > > [12]Suite in E Flat Major from the Harrach Manuscript (MS 120, Austrian > State Archive, Vienna) (unknown composers) > > [13]Pieces for Baroque Lute by Jan Antonin Losy of Losinthal (1650 - > 1721) (pieces from Ms. 40620 / Pl-Kj MS. Mus 40620) > > [14]Pieces for Baroque Lute by Rochus Berhandtzky (pieces from > manuscripts Vienna MS 7763/92 and Kremsmünster MS L83a) > > [15]Suite in g minor and pieces from Matthias Sigismund Biechteler > (Harrach Manuscript MS 120, Vienna, Austria) > > > Content of Viennalute 2 > > [16]French Baroque Lute Pieces from various Masters and Sources (incl. > pieces by DuBut and Mouton) > > [17]Baroque Lute Pieces by Silvius Leopold Weiss (incl. an unknown > Prelude in Bb Major by Weiss) > > [18]Lute Pieces by Gaultier and Perrine from Pieces de Luth en Musique > (incl. pieces form Perrine’s book “Pieces de Luth en Musique avec des > Regles pour les toucher parfaitem sur le Luth, et sur le Clavessin”) > > [19]Pieces for baroque lute by J F Daube > > [20]Pieces for Baroque Lute by Esaia Reusner > > [21]Pieces in Sous Dorien mode from "La Rhetorique des Dieux" by Denis > Gaultier > > [22]Pieces for Baroque Lute from the Manuscript MS Egerton 2046 > (British Library, London) (All lute pieces are in Accords Nouveaux, > various composers incl. Jacques Gautier, John Lawrence, Merville, > various 17^th century country dances) > > [23]Pieces for Baroque Lute by Ernst Gottlieb Baron > > [24]Pieces for Baroque Lute by Jacques Bittner > > > The free of charge MP3 audios replace my annual CDs produced in > previous years. > > > Best wishes, > > Ernst Bernhard > > -- > > References > > 1. http://www.soundcloud.com/ > 2. https://soundcloud.com/user-32080944 > 3. https://soundcloud.com/user-731566193 > 4. https://soundcloud.com/user-32080944 > 5. https://soundcloud.com/user-731566193 > 6. > https://soundcloud.com/user-32080944/sets/baroque-lute-pieces-from-vienna-ms-1078 > 7. > https://soundcloud.com/user-32080944/sets/pieces-for-baroque-lute-from-the-vienna-manuscript-ms-17706 > 8. > https://soundcloud.com/user-32080944/sets/baroque-lute-pieces-composed-by-johann-gotthard-peyer-from-the-vienna-manuscript-ms-hs-18826 > 9. > https://soundcloud.com/user-32080944/sets/allemande-and-sarabande-in-g-major-from-the-vienna-ms-18761 > 10. https://soundcloud.com/user-32080944/sets/pieces-for-baroque-lute-by > 11. > https://soundcloud.com/user-32080944/sets/pieces-for-baroque-lute-in-c-minor-composed-by-joseph-i-and-an-austrial-lute-master-o > 12. > https://soundcloud.com/user-32080944/sets/suite-in-e-flat-major-from-the-harrach-manuscript-ms-120-austrian-state-arch
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Harp Sharp etc, on an 11c lute
All you need is a pair of double-vision glasses... Rob > On 18 Oct 2017, at 19:27, howard posner <howardpos...@ca.rr.com> wrote: > > >> On Oct 18, 2017, at 10:56 AM, Rob MacKillop <robmackil...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I don't think you ever will recover, Howard. Send me your shrink bills. > > Not possible. In SSTS (Single-Stringing Trauma Syndrome) cases she insists > on cash up front. > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Harp Sharp etc, on an 11c lute
I don't think you ever will recover, Howard. Send me your shrink bills. I know what to do with them. Rob On 18 Oct 2017 18:51, "howard posner" <[1]howardpos...@ca.rr.com> wrote: > On Oct 18, 2017, at 1:15 AM, Rob MacKillop <[2]robmackil...@gmail.com> wrote: > > There is nothing "authentic" about a single-strung 11c lute, I am the >first to admit. The truth is, the older I get the harder it becomes to >swap between instruments. These days I mainly play guitar and theorbo >(single strung) and to suddenly pick up an 11 or 13 c lute is more of a >challenge than it used to be. So, I decided to make life a little >easier for myself. I'm sure this will upset some people It certainly upset me. I haven't been able to eat or sleep since I saw it. Now I'm tired and skinny. I'm hoping that with therapy I can get over it and resume a normal life. To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com 2. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Harp Sharp etc, on an 11c lute
Good post, Luca. Well, I've been "maniacally hip" for almost 30 years, and have a wealth of experience in Early Music, but also elsewhere. Each decade seems to teach us more about the fashions of our own time than about (for example) the 17th century. I've been through a lot of changes myself. To cut a long and fairly tedious story short, I'm now perfectly happy playing the way I do on this video. I know some people will like it, and some people won't. That's always the way of it, something I learned to accept many decades ago. Lang may yer lum reek! (Translation: Long may your chimney have smoke coming out of it! Something Wittgenstein forgot to add...) Rob > On 18 Oct 2017, at 11:37, Luca Manassero <l...@manassero.net> wrote: > > You're welcome, Rob. > > And I tend to believe you're right. After 12 years of pretty intensive > lute studies (renaissance in all its incarnations, baroque lute 11 and > 13 course, theorbo) I'm still maniacally hip, BUT (and it's a big "but") > I'm more and more fascinated by the music and its interpretation. > > I'm not sure whether it's a good idea to start an easy flame on this > list ;-) but I tend to believe that historically informed instruments > helped us a lot to stop playing lute music as a sort of strange sounding > Spanish guitar music. Once we learn it, then music is the real centrum. > > You certainly already know what the Austrian philosopher Wittgenstein > wrote (Umberto Eco ironically puts it in the mouth of Guglielmo da > Baskerville in his "The name of the rose"): "[you] must, so to speak, > throw away the ladder after [you have] climbed up it." > > Therefore, I really like your video :-) > > Luca > > Il 2017-10-18 10:15 Rob MacKillop ha scritto: > >> Thanks, Luca. >> There is nothing "authentic" about a single-strung 11c lute, I am the >> first to admit. The truth is, the older I get the harder it becomes to >> swap between instruments. These days I mainly play guitar and theorbo >> (single strung) and to suddenly pick up an 11 or 13 c lute is more of a >> challenge than it used to be. So, I decided to make life a little >> easier for myself. I'm sure this will upset some people, but all I want >> to do is play beautiful music as best I can. >> So, I hope people can just listen without making judgments over how >> inauthentic I am being. I've been down the - shall we say - purist >> road, and I love it when other people do that, as we all learn >> something from it. I am still an "historically-informed performer", >> though, and do my best to play with some sense of period style. >> I hope people are open enough to just listen to the beautiful music. >> And for what it's worth, I think the lute sounds beautiful too :-) >> Rob MacKillop >> >> On 18 October 2017 at 09:01, Luca Manassero <[1]l...@manassero.net> >> wrote: >> >> I'm a bit wondering about the single strung lute, but the music is >> really lovely. >> Over here (near Venice) it's the "real" first Fall day (it was very >> sunny 'til today) and this music just fits perfectly. >> Thank you, Rob >> Il 2017-10-18 01:09 Rob MacKillop ha scritto: >>> Might be of interest to some here: >>> [1][2]https://youtu.be/zvD4lwPoAks >>> Rob MacKillop >>> >>> -- >>> >>> References >>> >>> 1. [3]https://youtu.be/zvD4lwPoAks >>> >>> To get on or off this list see list information at >>> [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> -- >> >> -- >> >> References >> >> 1. mailto:l...@manassero.net >> 2. https://youtu.be/zvD4lwPoAks >> 3. https://youtu.be/zvD4lwPoAks >> 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > --
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Harp Sharp etc, on an 11c lute
Thanks, Luca. There is nothing "authentic" about a single-strung 11c lute, I am the first to admit. The truth is, the older I get the harder it becomes to swap between instruments. These days I mainly play guitar and theorbo (single strung) and to suddenly pick up an 11 or 13 c lute is more of a challenge than it used to be. So, I decided to make life a little easier for myself. I'm sure this will upset some people, but all I want to do is play beautiful music as best I can. So, I hope people can just listen without making judgments over how inauthentic I am being. I've been down the - shall we say - purist road, and I love it when other people do that, as we all learn something from it. I am still an "historically-informed performer", though, and do my best to play with some sense of period style. I hope people are open enough to just listen to the beautiful music. And for what it's worth, I think the lute sounds beautiful too :-) Rob MacKillop On 18 October 2017 at 09:01, Luca Manassero <[1]l...@manassero.net> wrote: I'm a bit wondering about the single strung lute, but the music is really lovely. Over here (near Venice) it's the "real" first Fall day (it was very sunny 'til today) and this music just fits perfectly. Thank you, Rob Il 2017-10-18 01:09 Rob MacKillop ha scritto: > Might be of interest to some here: > [1][2]https://youtu.be/zvD4lwPoAks > Rob MacKillop > > -- > > References > > 1. [3]https://youtu.be/zvD4lwPoAks > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- -- References 1. mailto:l...@manassero.net 2. https://youtu.be/zvD4lwPoAks 3. https://youtu.be/zvD4lwPoAks 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Harp Sharp etc, on an 11c lute
Might be of interest to some here: [1]https://youtu.be/zvD4lwPoAks Rob MacKillop -- References 1. https://youtu.be/zvD4lwPoAks To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Anthony Bailes paper in "The Lute" - and my holiday work
Excellent work, Andreas - and François-Pierre. I've played many pieces in accords nouveaux over the years, and it is helpful to have all the relevant data on one place. I can only encourage you to complete the English translation, with many thanks for what you have done so far. I'm a bit puzzled as to why the Coste version of Sor studies is there, for, as far as I recall, they are in standard guitar tuning. Rob MacKillop On 8 October 2017 at 19:18, Andreas Schlegel <[1]lute.cor...@sunrise.ch> wrote: Dear lutefriends, I saw in Anthony Bailes' wonderful article "The Bowe that is too much bent, breaketh"; The pitch of Miss Burwell's lute, reconsidered, in: The Lute LIV (2014), p. 1-35, some references to the website "[2]accordsnouveaux.ch" which was for years available only in German. This was a sign to work today on Francois-Pierre Goy's and my homepage and I'm happy to announce that a good part of the website is now available in English, too. During the last months, Joachim Lüdtke worked on translations and I had now the opportunity to put the texts online - and to make all the links... But at some pages, the graphical result is not convincig... and I can't say where the mistake comes in. The missed sites will come soon, I hope. There are some special topics: Horaz: [3]http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/Authors/AS/Horaz/Horaz.html Tunings / accords: [4]http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/Authors/AS/Judentanz/ Judentanz.html [5]http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/Thesis/Tunings%20Survey/ TuningsS.html [6]http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/Thesis/TuningsC/TuningsC.html La Rhétorique des Dieux: [7]http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/RdD%20Intro/Bremen/Bremen.html [8]http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/Authors/AS/AS.html scroll down to "Publications" Bullen Reymes (F-P. Goy): [9]http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/Thesis/Writers/Writers.html Swiss sources: [10]http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/SourcesCH/SourcesCH.html Benzenauer [11]http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/Authors/AS/AS.html scroll down to "Publications" The "Rodauer Lautenbuch" (D-Fschneider Ms 45) [12]http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/RodauLB/RodauLB.html Guitar music: [13]http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/GuitarLit/GuitarLit.html Enjoy! And if you see errors, please give an advice. Thanks! Andreas -- To get on or off this list see list information at [14]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:lute.cor...@sunrise.ch 2. http://accordsnouveaux.ch/ 3. http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/Authors/AS/Horaz/Horaz.html 4. http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/Authors/AS/Judentanz/Judentanz.html 5. http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/Thesis/Tunings Survey/TuningsS.html 6. http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/Thesis/TuningsC/TuningsC.html 7. http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/RdD Intro/Bremen/Bremen.html 8. http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/Authors/AS/AS.html 9. http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/Thesis/Writers/Writers.html 10. http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/SourcesCH/SourcesCH.html 11. http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/Authors/AS/AS.html 12. http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/RodauLB/RodauLB.html 13. http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/GuitarLit/GuitarLit.html 14. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Menuett WeissSW 4,5 - Reusner ensemble works
Well spotted, Markus! Very interesting. And thanks for sharing. Rob > On 6 May 2017, at 00:00, Markus Lutz <mar...@gmlutz.de> wrote: > > Hello, > in the new Lauteninfo of the Deutsche Lautengesellschaft, that is about to be > sent to the members, I publish about some things I found in the past months. > > The most exciting finding for me was the fact, that a Menuet by Silvius > Leopold Weiss turned out to be the intabulation of the final choir of an > opera by Domenico Scarlatti (Lieto giorno from Tolomeo e Alessandro). > > Also I found some more lute concordances to the Reusner ensemble works > (Taffel=Erlustigung) - as far as I knew there had been only one before (the > courante in a). > > 3. Courante in a = Erfreuliche Lautenlust, p. 13. > 29. Allemande in Bb = Neue Lautenfrüchte, S. 6, 2. St. (further Concordance > beside others: S-Klm21072 / 52v) > 30. Courant in Bb = S-Klm21068 / 12r and S-Klm21072 / 53r > 31. Saraband in Bb = autogr. addition in the Berlin exemplar of the > Lautenfrüchte, rear side of p. 7 > 33. Gigue in Bb = ebd., rear side of p. 6 > 56. Ballo in A = Aire PL-Wu2008 / 126, PL-Wu2009 / 183, Gavotte PL-Wn396 / > 240v > > Both scores I have set in musescore, which now (2.1) supports the bourdon > strings of lute instruments. > > You can see both scores online: > https://musescore.com/user/4275446/scores/3856566 (Weiss-Scarlatti) > https://musescore.com/user/4275446/scores/3857006 (Reusner) > > Best regards > Markus > > > > > > > -- > > Markus Lutz > Schulstraße 11 > > 88422 Bad Buchau > > Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 > Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 > Mail mar...@gmlutz.de > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Stringing
Not the best audio, but they do seem more gut-like to me. Rob On 7 February 2017 at 20:28, Mimmo Peruffo <[1]mperu...@aquilacorde.com> wrote: Here is: the not red bass string that is the 11 course is those made with more stiffer elastomer. the turns on the peg where just half. th sound has less sustain and it is powerfull and darker. I am very happy with it. The 5 course: the string of that course I am playing is made with a stiffer elastomer and have the same quantity of copper. I like it a lot: less metallic and indeed less stretchly, far more blanced. [2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4s4CkDP580=em-uploa d_owner well i stop here. I have flu now (thanks London!) it is a pity, I would like to start to do the batch soon. Mimmo To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:mperu...@aquilacorde.com 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4s4CkDP580=em-upload_owner 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Stringing
That sounds encouraging! Rob On 7 Feb 2017 14:27, "Mimmo Peruffo" <[1]mperu...@aquilacorde.com> wrote: well guys, I think to have good news. I am doing, right now, the first few strings using a stiffer elasthomer and the same quantity of copper powder. I must admit that the process is even easy than before. The strings are absolutely no false and pretty even. The sound: darker and with less sustain, similar to those of the 2nd generation of the loaded gut strings (venices charged with copper powder). They stretch less and they are even more slippering on the nut- grooves. I am doing the Meanes now. I have a bit of difficoults but I am not worry at all. I will find the way soon. This is just a short report. I will do a short video for my own Youtube channel. ciao Mimmo To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:mperu...@aquilacorde.com 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Stringing
Second option for me. Rob MacKillop > On 3 Feb 2017, at 07:29, Mimmo Peruffo <mperu...@aquilacorde.com> wrote: > > Thank you for the suggestion Arto. > Unfortunately i cannot do it > I already image how confuse the thing will be with the customers. > This mean the eford to mannage twice products and honestly I do not > like to add cofusion in the factory and with customers already stressed > by me! > > I should do a choice and in fast time: is it better a more elastic > string like these are (whith problems related to the fact that maybe > stretch tooo much and that the sound is too bright) or it is better to > switch to a less elastic plastic support with the advantage that it > stretch less, the sound is darker and with less sustain? > Hard to do the choice: both solutions are ok; i already tried the > second option that is similar to the loaded gut strings > Even Anthony Bailes suggested me the second option. > > Strings or not to strings? this is the question > > ah ah > (my poor english at work) > Ciao > Mimmo > > ps > which are your suggestion guys? > > > > -Messaggio originale- > From: Arto Wikla > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:46 PM > To: Mimmo Peruffo ; baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Stringing > > Dear Mimmo, > > if you decide to make the loaded nylgut strings (CD) less elastic, I > hope (and wish and urge ;-) ) that you keep also the original elastic > version in your repertoire! They work exceptionally well on my Harz > arclute, great stuff. > > And big thanks for your invaluable work! > > Arto > >> On 02/02/17 14:03, Mimmo Peruffo wrote: >> Well, seeing this post I have the idea to switch to these stiffer > ones. >> at the end of the day they are closer to those loaded strings made of > gut. >> I will do some samples in advance. >> Mimmo > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- >
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Stringing
Hi David, I'm hugely impressed with the new Aquila Loaded Nylgut - see their website for details. After three days they settled quickly into tuning, and I rarely have to tweak them. Good sound too. Rob MacKillop > On 1 Feb 2017, at 21:25, David Rastall <d_lu...@comcast.net> wrote: > > It seems I am back playing Baroque lute once again, after rather a long > hiatus. It’s been long enough that I have forgotten some of the points of > conventional wisdom concerning stringing. I’m playing an 11c lute currently > strung with silver-wound basses and Pyramid nylon mids and trebles. I’m not > so much bothered by the sustain of the nylon strings, but if you folks can > refresh my memory: what is the best choice of basses to get a sustain which > is not downright thunky or chunky, but has shorter sustain than the > silver-wounds? > > David R > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: John Lawrence in Accords Nouveaux tuning
Wonderful stuff, Bernhard. His is a new name to me, and I like what I hear. The whole Accords Nouveaux is an interesting area, with some good, and some not so good pieces. I think Lawrence wrote some fine music, so thank you for bringing it to our attention. And well played too! Rob > On 5 Jan 2017, at 12:48, Fischer BE (Aon) <fischer...@aon.at> wrote: > > Dear lute friends, > > I have completed my home amateur recordings of a suite in g minor composed > by Mr. John Lawrence. The four pieces are written in the lute tablature > manuscript MS Egerton 2046 (British Library, London). All pieces are in the > Accords Nouveaux ’Tuning Lawrence’ (g’,d’,b,g,d,A,G,F,Es,D,C) as it is named > in the manuscript (the manuscript dates from 1615 to 1635 and is known for > its famous renaissance lute pieces). > The four pieces are: A Ballat (https://youtu.be/L9aYxKsh9GU), a Coranto > (https://youtu.be/0r917fCRjaI), a Sarabande (https://youtu.be/HqJVrMH4mQo), > and a Pavane (https://youtu.be/iXbCMmhuv-E). > Between 1625 and 1634, John Lawrence has been a musician for the lutes and > voices at the English court of King Charles I in London. It is known that > Lawrence’s position in the ’Symphony’ at the court of King Charles I was the > treble lute, and his salary was £10. > I look forward to your comment and suggestions. > > Happy New Year from Vienna, > Bernhard. > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Falckenhagen variations
Magnificent playing, Chris, of a fine piece. I went back to the beginning after the end, to hear the modern technique, and it was quite a difference. I think you play the whole piece brilliantly. Looking at Falckenhagen's portrait, his thumb doesn't seem to be so far in front of his fingers, indeed it almost looks as if it is behind his index, but as it is so outstretched it is hard to say how out in front it would be when closer to the fingers. His whole hand, though, is definitely nearer the bridge than modern playing. I've found that gut strings necessitate this positioning. What kind of strings did you use? Rob MacKillop On 17 March 2015 at 00:47, Christopher Wilke [1]chriswi...@cs.dartmouth.edu wrote: Hello all, A A I've posted a video of my performance of Adam Falckenhagen's variations on the chorale tune, Wer nur den lieben Gott laesst walten. It's a pretty wild set, starting sedately, but quickly transitioning into rapid, twisting arpeggios and ending with a workout in crazy leaping basses at breakneck speed for the thumb. I begin the piece with modern baroque lute right hand technique (close to the rose; hand coming in at an angle across the strings; thumb just slightly in front of the index finger). At 0:28 seconds, on the repeat of the initial material, I abruptly move to a more historical thumb out position (close to the bridge; fingers very perpendicular to the strings; thumb held out strongly in front of the fingers). I believe it becomes a different instrument. The cadenza at the end is my own improvisation. Constructive comments welcome. The video is at: [2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQUqfH2Va7M This is from my forthcoming album, Desperate Doors. You still have a chance to back it, but time is almost up! [3]https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1600736048/desperate-doors-b aroque-lute-album Thanks! Chris Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A. Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer [4]www.christopherwilke.com To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:chriswi...@cs.dartmouth.edu 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQUqfH2Va7M 3. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1600736048/desperate-doors-baroque-lute-album 4. http://www.christopherwilke.com/ 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: A message from our friend Grant Tomlinson
So awful. Heartfelt commiserations.A Rob MacKillop On 21 October 2014 14:29, BENJAMIN NARVEY [1]luthi...@gmail.com wrote: A A Dear All, A A I forward the following message from our friend Grant Tomlinson: A A Dear Benjamin, A A Just a quick note.AA I have finally figured out how to get into my A A email account from Kathmandu, and have been reading through all of the A A concerned messages from friends.AA Thanks so much for your email, it A A means a lot to hear from you.AA Could you put a post on Facebook for me A A to let the lute people know that I am safe and well?AA Stella, Paul and A A I were almost killed in the same avalanche that got Jan and the 3 A A French Canadians. I hope to be back in Vancouver by Nov. 1st, but this A A may change if the weather gets warmer (giving hope of finding Jan's A A body before winter truly sets in). A A Will be in touch with you later... A A Sincerely,AA Grant. A A -- A A [1][2]www.luthiste.com A A t [3]+33 (0) 6 71 79 98 98 A A -- References A A 1. [4]http://www.luthiste.com/ To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:luthi...@gmail.com 2. http://www.luthiste.com/ 3. tel:%2B33%20%280%29%206%2071%2079%2098%2098 4. http://www.luthiste.com/ 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] L'enciclopedie - Du But
Any background info regarding the piece on page 145 of the Saizenay manuscript, entitled L'enciclopedie Allemande de Du But? I'm wondering which encyclopedia might be being referred to. My basic search with Google failed to bring up a French encyclopedia before D'Alembert. The closest I can find is a popular science book which became very popular in France, mid century: Pseudodoxia Epidemica by Thomas Browne, first published in English, and which refers to itself as an encyclopedia. But that might be way off target. Any ideas? Rob www.robmackillop.net To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: L'enciclopedie - Du But
Thanks, Bernd. That could be it. Or not. My wife writes dictionaries for a living, and knows a lot about the D'Alembert-Diderot encyclopedia, so we were wondering about this piece by DuBut. Perhaps there is no connection at all. Rob www.robmackillop.net On 21 May 2014, at 19:32, Bernd Haegemann b...@symbol4.de wrote: It could perhaps refer to this book: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_grand_dictionaire_historique Or may be the piece itself was estimated as highly learned? B On 21.05.2014 19:45, Rob MacKillop wrote: Any background info regarding the piece on page 145 of the Saizenay manuscript, entitled L'enciclopedie Allemande de Du But? I'm wondering which encyclopedia might be being referred to. My basic search with Google failed to bring up a French encyclopedia before D'Alembert. The closest I can find is a popular science book which became very popular in France, mid century: Pseudodoxia Epidemica by Thomas Browne, first published in English, and which refers to itself as an encyclopedia. But that might be way off target. Any ideas? Rob www.robmackillop.net To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: New Recording
I can highly recommend Stephen's translation of the Divine Comedy, as I've enjoyed a private copy for a number of years. I'm really pleased to see it available as an eBook, and will get a copy of that for my iPad. Stephen, it is great to listen to your performances with pure gut strings. Can you tell us about your experience with them, pros and cons? And who made them? What string length and pitch? Etc ;-) And thanks for recording the entire publication! Hearty congratulations for getting through it! Rob www.robmackillop.net On 5 May 2014, at 15:33, stephen arndt stephenwar...@verizon.net wrote: Dear Friends, I invite you to listen to my recording of Denis Gaultier's La rhA(c)torique des dieux on an Andreas von Holst 11-course lute strung entirely in pure gut (i.e., the basses are not gimped). Quite some time ago I recorded the first forty-three pieces and then put the project aside for well over a year owing to various reasons. Towards the end of last year I resumed it and recorded pieces forty-four to sixty-one but was very dissatisfied with my earlier recordings in terms of tempo and sound quality, so I redid them. I used the tablature available for free on Richard Civiol's site and took the Louis Pernot recordings as a model, arpeggiating chords where he did and attempting to imitate his ornaments. If you care to, you can listen to an individual piece by clicking on its title or to all pieces successively by using the playlist at the bottom of the page here: [1]http://www.verseandsong.com/song/baroque-lute-2/la-rhetorique-des-di eux/. For those of you who do not know me, be forewarned: I am not a professional musician, and this is strictly an amateur endeavor. Nevertheless, I hope you will find it pleasant enough listening. Please feel free to explore my website by using the expandable menu on the left side of the page. I hope you will forgive my including off-topic information on another recent project of mine. I have revised my translation of Dante's Divine Comedy in iambic pentameter and terza rima and now offer it as a Kindle e-book. It is written in modern diction and normal syntax and strives to remain highly faithful to the sense of the original. Moreover, it is the only translation in the 400-year history of Dante translations into English to employ perfect rhyme throughout. If you are interested, you can find generous samples by clicking on the cover image at the following Amazon pages: The Inferno: [2]http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JQWNUXC The Purgatorio: [3]http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JRD2MPW The Paradsiso: [4]http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JS3B414 The whole Divine Comedy: [5]http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JST98MK Best regards to all, Stephen Arndt -- References 1. http://www.verseandsong.com/song/baroque-lute-2/la-rhetorique-des-dieux/ 2. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JQWNUXC 3. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JRD2MPW 4. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JS3B414 5. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JST98MK To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: New Recording
Well, I do like the sound you are making, and the basses sound good to my ears - very clear, and with little sustain, which is generally a good thing for open strings and moving bass lines. I do wonder though how thick the lowest strings must be, and what size of holes you must have in the bridge. Looking around the rest of your website, I'm astonished how much recording you have done. Although not a professional, your interpretations must carry some authenticity for how the many hundreds of good amateur lutenists played. I am perfectly content to sit with headphones on and listen to all this wonderful music through your performances. I do wish, however, you would consider joining SoundCloud, and using their player. I'm afraid your player does not work continuously on my iPad. It would be nice to just click Play once, then lie back and enjoy the beautiful sounds, music and playing. Rob www.robmackillop.net On 5 May 2014, at 17:52, stephen arndt stephenwar...@verizon.net wrote: Thank you, Rob, for your kind words about my Dante work. I have revised it extensively since the version I sent you a number of years ago and made numerous improvements. I see that the title of the work got garbled because of the acute accent on the e. I'm sure everyone figured out it is La rhetorique des dieux. The string length on my Andreas von Holst 11-course is 67.5 centimeters; the strings are made by Damian Dlugolecki and tuned to A = 392. Andreas von Holst thought that the pure gut basses sounded terrible. I think they needed a little time to settle in, and now I think they sound good, but I shall let you all judge for yourselves. Some of you may not like them. I use a .46 on the top course, and it usually lasts three or four months. I haven't found any other stringmaker whose strings last that long. As for pros and cons, the main advantage is simply the sound of gut. I think that even with my amateur technique the sound is both warm and clear for the most part. I find it difficult to maintain those qualities when the melody dips down into a lower register, which it does often enough in La rhetorique, but that is probably more a consequence of my playing than of the strings themselves. The main disadvantage is the instability of tuning. I record on a Fostex and get 7 minutes and 13 seconds worth at 48 Hz. If I don't get a good take in that time period (and I usually don't the first few times), the instrument will probably have gone out of tune, and I shall have to retune before the next take. I know that some people on the list perform in public on gut strings. I play at my wife's church once a month and use the New Nylgut strings for that. I can't imagine what a tuning nightmare playing on gut would be. That's about all I can say on that topic. Thanks for listening. -Original Message- From: Rob MacKillop Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 11:21 AM To: stephen arndt Cc: baroque-lute mailing-list ; lute mailing list list Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] New Recording I can highly recommend Stephen's translation of the Divine Comedy, as I've enjoyed a private copy for a number of years. I'm really pleased to see it available as an eBook, and will get a copy of that for my iPad. Stephen, it is great to listen to your performances with pure gut strings. Can you tell us about your experience with them, pros and cons? And who made them? What string length and pitch? Etc ;-) And thanks for recording the entire publication! Hearty congratulations for getting through it! Rob www.robmackillop.net On 5 May 2014, at 15:33, stephen arndt stephenwar...@verizon.net wrote: Dear Friends, I invite you to listen to my recording of Denis Gaultier's La rhA(c)torique des dieux on an Andreas von Holst 11-course lute strung entirely in pure gut (i.e., the basses are not gimped). Quite some time ago I recorded the first forty-three pieces and then put the project aside for well over a year owing to various reasons. Towards the end of last year I resumed it and recorded pieces forty-four to sixty-one but was very dissatisfied with my earlier recordings in terms of tempo and sound quality, so I redid them. I used the tablature available for free on Richard Civiol's site and took the Louis Pernot recordings as a model, arpeggiating chords where he did and attempting to imitate his ornaments. If you care to, you can listen to an individual piece by clicking on its title or to all pieces successively by using the playlist at the bottom of the page here: [1]http://www.verseandsong.com/song/baroque-lute-2/la-rhetorique-des-di eux/. For those of you who do not know me, be forewarned: I am not a professional musician, and this is strictly an amateur endeavor. Nevertheless, I hope you will find it pleasant enough listening. Please feel free to explore my website by using the expandable menu on the left
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Lobkowicz collections, CZ
Sorry, it was the Goess mss I was thinking of... Rob On 8 May 2012 08:06, Markus Lutz [1]mar...@gmlutz.de wrote: As far as I know, there is none of them published by TREE edition. Albert (a copy of this mail also to you) published all of the Goess volumes, of the Leipzig library, some of Rostock, but none of the Prague mss. Best regards Markus On 08.05.2012 06:18, David Smith wrote: Take a look at Volume XXXII of the LSA. There is an article JiAA(TM)A AeOEepalA!k, Lutes in the Lobkowicz Collection, Nelahozeves Castle, Bohemia. Rob, do you know which manuscripts Tree edition did? I do not recognize them on the tree editions site. Regards David -Original Message- From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Rob MacKillop Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 12:16 PM To: [4]theoj89...@aol.com Cc: [5]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu; [6]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Lobkowicz collections, CZ A A I think Tree Editions has published them all... A A Rob A A On 7 May 2012 20:13,[1][7]theoj89...@aol.com A wrote: A A A The Lobkowicz estate owns several A A A baroque lutes and several baroque lute manuscripts or books that are A A A on display A A A at the Lobkowicz Palace in Prague, Czech Republic. A A A [2][8]http://www.lobkowicz.cz/en/ A A A Are the lute books of any interest, A A A and if so, are copies anywhere available? Likewise, are there A A A technical A A A drawings of any of the lutes available? It is a very interesting A A A collection of A A A lutes and, apparently a few lute books, (as well as a baroque guitar A A A and at A A A least one baroque guitar book), but there is little specific A A A information given A A A at the Palace exhibit, and I could find no additional information A A A online. A A A -- A A A To get on or off this list see list information at A A A [3][9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html A A -- References A A 1. mailto:[10]theoj89...@aol.com A A 2. [11]http://www.lobkowicz.cz/en/ A A 3. [12]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz SchulstraAYe 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel A 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax A 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail [13]mar...@gmlutz.de -- References 1. mailto:mar...@gmlutz.de 2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:theoj89...@aol.com 5. mailto:l...@cs.dartmouth.edu 6. mailto:baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 7. mailto:theoj89...@aol.com 8. http://www.lobkowicz.cz/en/ 9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 10. mailto:theoj89...@aol.com 11. http://www.lobkowicz.cz/en/ 12. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 13. mailto:mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Lobkowicz collections, CZ
I think Tree Editions has published them all... Rob On 7 May 2012 20:13, [1]theoj89...@aol.com wrote: The Lobkowicz estate owns several baroque lutes and several baroque lute manuscripts or books that are on display at the Lobkowicz Palace in Prague, Czech Republic. [2]http://www.lobkowicz.cz/en/ Are the lute books of any interest, and if so, are copies anywhere available? Likewise, are there technical drawings of any of the lutes available? It is a very interesting collection of lutes and, apparently a few lute books, (as well as a baroque guitar and at least one baroque guitar book), but there is little specific information given at the Palace exhibit, and I could find no additional information online. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:theoj89...@aol.com 2. http://www.lobkowicz.cz/en/ 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: What lutes for 17th century French music was: Ne Anthony Bailes CD
Will I be shot down in flames by suggesting you don't use Spotify? The thing is a massive rip off. The musician gets almost nothing for being on it. Lady Gaga had over a million plays on it, and received just over 100 dollars. Imagine what Anthony Bailes would receive... Many musicians are boycotting the site, including Bob Dylan, who doesn't need the money, but wants to support other artists. We all want something for free, but sometimes the cost is too high. I'm not talking about the income musicians get from CDs, which is very small in our lute world, but the record companies will not bother making any more lute recordings is even we as lute players do not support them. Sorry, Bill. I know you bought the disc, so full marks there. But I want others to think about using Spotify, what it entails. Sadly, I'm also on Spotify - I had no control over it, and didn't even know I was there until someone asked for a free score of pieces he was listening to me play on Spotify...and got annoyed at me when I said no. Rob MacKillop On 16 March 2012 11:31, William Samson [1]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Hi Martyn, Go to [1][2]www.spotify.com where you can download the player onto your computer. There are then two options - you can go for the free version which has occasional ads between tracks, or the paid version that is ad-free. Being a Scotsman I put up with the ads! Best wishes, Bill From: Martyn Hodgson [3]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk To: William Samson [4]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk Sent: Friday, 16 March 2012, 11:17 Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] What lutes for 17th century French music was: Ne Anthony Bailes CD Thanks Bill - how does one access spotify? rgds M--- On Fri, 16/3/12, William Samson [5]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: From: William Samson [6]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] What lutes for 17th century French music was: Ne Anthony Bailes CD To: Martyn Hodgson [7]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk Date: Friday, 16 March, 2012, 10:38 I just found that this album can be listened to on Spotify if you have access to it. It's free to use in the UK, but I can't say how things are elsewhere. Bill From: Martyn Hodgson [8]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk To: [9]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu [10]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Edward Martin [11]e...@gamutstrings.com; William Samson [12]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk Sent: Friday, 16 March 2012, 9:04 Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] What lutes for 17th century French music was: Ne Anthony Bailes CD Hi Bill, This is indeed a fascinating subject (hence the change of heading). I am told variously that the 1722 Wenger has a string length of 76 or 77cm. It may at some stage have been converted (from a gallichon perhaps?) to a 13 course lute before the present manifestation as an 11 course instrument . Again see earlier editions of Lute News for more information/views. The preferred instruments at the time (ie converted early 16th cenury Italian lutes) generally had a string length of 68 +/-2cm. See Lute News 94, page 28 which outlines the principle sources of evidence for the size of lutes preferred in mid/late 17th century France). But bear in mind (as Lute News notes) Of course, this is not to say that it is 'wrong' to play the music on such a large lute and, indeed, the French repertoire whilst being challenging for interpretation (precise phrasing, accent, articulation, mannerisms and the like), is much less demanding for the left hand and a large instrument is clearly quite possible: it's more a question of what the Old Ones themselves might have expected. Incidentally, I make no comment one way or the other on Anthony Bailes's performance. regards Martyn PS the CD of music played on this instrument which I reported as being out over a year ago in fact refers to a previous CD played on the same instrument. --- On Fri, 16/3/12, William Samson [2][13]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: From: William Samson [3][14]willsam...@yahoo.co.ukSubject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Ne Anthony Bailes CDTo: Martyn Hodgson [4][15]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk, [5][16]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu [6][17]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu,Edward Martin [7][18]e...@gamutstrings.comDate: Friday, 16 March, 2012, 8:33 Hi Martyn, Do you know what the string length of the Wenger is? Bill From: Martyn Hodgson [1][8][19]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Dubut and Jean Mercure
Didn't Bubut play with Yogi? Good typo, Ed! Rob www.robmackillop.net On 5 Dec 2011, at 19:35, Edward Martin e...@gamutstrings.com wrote: Does anyone have any biographical data on the 2 French baroque lute composers Bubut and Mercure? Please note that there were 2 Mersures - one was Mercure 'd Orleans, and the other Jean Mercure. I am interested in Jean. Anay and all submissions are well appreciated, especially if the information is in English! Thanks in advance, ed Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: A=392
Check out 'From the fair lavinian shore' from Balcarres - attributed elsewhere to John Wilson. Number 51: http://scottishlute.com/balcarres/ Rob On 1 December 2011 10:55, R. Mattes r...@mh-freiburg.de wrote: On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 18:26:57 -0800, Nancy Carlin wrote One of the things that is really intersting about John Wilson is that he wrote a series of fantasties in all (many?) keys. In all keys, IIRC. And also some warmup exercises as well. These re for English theorbo with the first string down an octave. I think Paul O'Dette recorded a few of them on a CD he made with Ellen Hargis. Really nice music., imho. Since he rarely uses the first string at all, it's even playable on an archlute. Some pieces can be played on a theorbo as well, the notes on the second string can be easily moved to the third string. Cheers, Ralf Mattes -- R. Mattes - Hochschule fuer Musik Freiburg r...@inm.mh-freiburg.de To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Scottish Lute Recording Project - metadata added
Thanks to the resourceful David Smith, all the mp3 files now carry the metadata required by iTunes and other players. Should make filing, playlists, etc easier. Many thanks to David. Site link: [1]http://scottishlute.com/balcarres/ Rob MacKillop -- References 1. http://scottishlute.com/balcarres/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Balcarres
One week on and there are twenty pieces from the Balcarres manuscript to listen to: [1]http://scottishlute.com/balcarres/ I'm pleased to announce that Glasgow University has agreed to house the wav files for posterity, and for use by students and staff. This is exactly what I wanted, a sound archive for both research and entertainment. I'm impressed with the variety within these first twenty pieces. Check out the 'Celia' 'suite'. I can't make much of the last one, number 20. Sounds like a musical 'cut and paste' experiment. Rob MacKillop -- References 1. http://scottishlute.com/balcarres/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Adew Dundee - Scottish Lute Video
I wonder why it called the HIGHEST tuning of the lute in Balcarres? Any theories? Rob www.robmackillop.net On 24 Oct 2011, at 20:22, Andreas Schlegel lute.cor...@sunrise.ch wrote: Oh dear! You're right! Wemyss has edeff - and this tuning is called: Ton de tierce par B [natural] (34-D-Us 132, S. 64); Tuning Gautier (18-Pickering, Fol. 45); accord nouveau par [natural] quarre (45-Mersenne 1636-I, S.91a); B quare (20-S-N 1122, Fol. 1); Pecard (38-CH-Zz 907, Fol. 18 und 21v); sharp; The sharp tun uhich called gautirs tune (13-Wemyss, Fol. 26v); The highest tuening of the lute (1-Balcarres, S. 216) And dedff is called: Le ton rauissant (31-US-R 186, S. 55); b�mol (38-CH-Zz 907, Fol. 6 etc.); flat, flatt (13-Wemyss, Fol. 32v etc.); flat tuning (26-GB-Ob E 411, Fol. 78) The third tuning with a name in Wemyss is dedfe: flat (13-Wemyss Fol. 39v) - and it's not the same as dedff, of course. Sorry, I took Rob's terminology Harp Flat and Harp Sharp with Harp as searching word in the tuning database... and the results of tuning and old terminology are: fdeff: ton de harpe de B [natural] et Ton de la harpe par [natural] (34-D-Us 132, S. 58 und Fol. IVv) Ton de la harpe par b dur (2-CH Bu 53, Fol. 19v) harpway (36-Board, Fol. 32v) The highest tuning of the lute with 1st string tuned up half a note (1-Balcarres, S. 218 � so it's a variant of edeff) and fedff: Ton de la Harpe par b mol, Ton de la harpe par b (34-D-Us 132, S. 66 und IVv) Ton de la harpe par b mol (2-CH-Bu 53, Fol. 25v) Harpe-way, Tuning flat-way or Lawrence (18-Pickering, Fol. 44) That was exactly the reason to take the Traficante system and not other terms: There's no consistent use of the terminology of these tunings in old times. But the Traficante system is really clear - and a practical help. Andreas Am 24.10.2011 um 19:58 schrieb Mathias R�sel: Erm, yes, and that's not what's in the Wemyss ms. The Wemyss ms. has edeff (sharp tuning) and dedff (flat tuning), ascribing them their respective names. Mathias -Urspr�ngliche Nachricht- Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag von Andreas Schlegel Gesendet: Montag, 24. Oktober 2011 16:13 An: ar...@student.matnat.uio.no Cc: Rob MacKillop; baroque lute list Betreff: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Adew Dundee - Scottish Lute Video You can also have a look on this page on the Accords nouveaux (at moment only in German and partially in French): http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/de/index.html The Ton de la Harpe par b mol is fedff in the Traficante-system (see http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/de/Abhandlung/Accords/Accords.html) - with 173 pieces in 11 sources The Ton de la harpe par b dur is fdeff - with 121 pieces in 15 sources see: http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/de/Abhandlung/Accords/Accords_Darstellung /Accords_Darstellung.html Scroll down to obtain a detailled list - and have then a look on the links on http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/de/Abhandlung/Datenbank_PAN/Datenbank_ PAN.html You can choose the http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/de/DownloadD/files/PAN_Acc_Ton_Source.p df and the you know where the pieces can be found. Andreas Am 24.10.2011 um 15:41 schrieb ar...@student.matnat.uio.no: The original scores are in harp sharp or harp flat tunings, what exactly are these tunings? Are With a 10c lute in Renaissance tuning... Harp Sharp - tune the first string down to E, the second string down to C Harp Flat - first string Eb, second string C Lots of music in these tunings! Thank you! Are To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Adew Dundee - Scottish Lute Video
Today's offering, dedicated to my fellow Dundonian, Bill Samson. [1]http://lutegroup.ning.com/video/adew-dundee-scottish-lute-music (Nin g) or [2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGKakTaYF1Y (YT) and three pieces from the Wemyss manuscript - something went wrong with the lighting for the 2nd and 3rd piece! Not intentional. [3]http://lutegroup.ning.com/video/scottish-lute-music-from-the-wemyss- ms (Ning) or [4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldnMANjks_M (YT) Rob MacKillop, taking a trip down memory lane... -- References 1. http://lutegroup.ning.com/video/adew-dundee-scottish-lute-music 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGKakTaYF1Y 3. http://lutegroup.ning.com/video/scottish-lute-music-from-the-wemyss-ms 4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldnMANjks_M To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Bocquet vids
Wash your mouth out, Dale! Have a listen to a banjo played with gut strings: [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w2yPvmmpzU Rob On 21 October 2011 20:40, Dale Young [2]dyoung5...@wowway.com wrote: and we do have those moveable frettes to assist in mediating the most egregious of out-tunation issues...until we can replace the offending string. I can no longer tolerate the banjo-esque timbre of nylon and over-spun bass strings, except in the hands of a very few exceptional players. Gut and only gut. Dale - Original Message - From: wikla [3]wi...@cs.helsinki.fi To: Roman Turovsky [4]r.turov...@verizon.net Cc: BAROQUE-LUTE [5]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 3:19 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Bocquet vids Dear Roman, I have occasionally(?) identified dodgy intonation also by nylon (etc.) strings, not only by gut strung instruments. And also pure and enjoyable intonation by both! Intonation certainly is not a question about the string material, but - well - it is a question about the intonator, the player! And you certainly should be able to fine tune your intonation better than equal temperament. Strong fingers and not too much string tension... ;-) Arto On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 12:19:14 -0400, Roman Turovsky wrote: However there is a occaional give-away: one can often identify gut by its dodgy intonation. To get on or off this list see list information at [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - [7]www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1831 / Virus Database: 2092/4564 - Release Date: 10/20/11 -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w2yPvmmpzU 2. mailto:dyoung5...@wowway.com 3. mailto:wi...@cs.helsinki.fi 4. mailto:r.turov...@verizon.net 5. mailto:baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 7. http://www.avg.com/
[BAROQUE-LUTE] La Conversation - de Visee
Another beautiful Allemande by Robert de Visee. Did he ever write a bad piece? I don't think so. [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI1hJ_tPQAw or on the ning site: [2]http://lutegroup.ning.com/video/la-conversation-by-robert-de-visee?x g_source=activity Rob MacKillop -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI1hJ_tPQAw 2. http://lutegroup.ning.com/video/la-conversation-by-robert-de-visee?xg_source=activity To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Robert de Visee lute tombeau de DuBut
Andreas, I am pleased you like the sound. I really like the 'roundness' or 'camber' of the fretboard. It makes a big difference for the left hand. One of the best things about this lute is the shape and thickness of the neck. The back of the neck is flat at the first fret position, and curved at the high frets, with a gentle change as it goes up the neck. Difficult to put into words. But it is shaped beautifully. So, both sides of the neck and fingerboard are shaped. I am not sure if this can now be done with your lute. The Burkholzer shape is different to the Hoffman shape, so that will have an effect on the sound. And we decided on rosewood with ebony spacers for the bowl. I tuned to A = 392 as that is my favourite pitch for gut strings on baroque lutes. The string length is 705mm. All these things make a difference to the sound. I like the Burkholzer shape - it is easy to hold, and the lute is surprisingly light. You need to talk to a luthier... Cheers, Rob MacKillop www.robmackillop.net On 20 Oct 2011, at 21:14, Andreas Schroth andreasschr...@gmx.net wrote: Thank You! It sounds as in my imagination a lute should sound, dark like from a time far away. It reminds me of Jakob Lindberg's restored original lute. I have a 13 course after Hoffmann (which one I don't know right now) by Nico van der Waals from around 1980. The sound is silbrig and the fretboard is flat, not round like yours. Does anybody have an idea who could change the instrument (fretboard and Your sound) or is this anyhow a good idea? Andreas (Berlin, Germany) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Lute music by Robert de Visee
Here is the first video I've made with my new Malcolm Prior 13c [1]http://lutegroup.ning.com/video/tombeau-de-dubut-by-robert-de-visee Not strictly 13c repertoire, but close enough. And not a faultless performance, but I think you get the jist of it. Pinkie on bridge watchers - look away... Rob -- References 1. http://lutegroup.ning.com/video/tombeau-de-dubut-by-robert-de-visee To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Weiss Tabs - fantasia in C
You will find it here: [1]http://jdf.luth.pagesperso-orange.fr/index.htm Rob -- References 1. http://jdf.luth.pagesperso-orange.fr/index.htm To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: RH technique?
Bill, The Weiss tablatures indicate the thumb as high as the third course... Rob On 7 October 2011 14:31, William Samson [1]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Having come from renaissance lute with all its thumb/forefinger action on the treble strings, I'm finding that having my thumb on, say, the third course is making life difficult when it has to leap down to the tenth course, for example. I would think the answer is to do more with i,m and a on the high strings and keep the thumb primarily for the basses. My question is, Is there a course beyond which the thumb should not venture in normal circumstances? For example should the thumb only be used on the 5th, 6th and diapason courses? I would be interested to hear your views and experiences. Thanks, Bill -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:willsam...@yahoo.co.uk 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: L'Infidele
Thanks, Bill. That's it. To which Malcolm added a few more, including the bizarre c.160mm on the small Berr, the smallest lute but with the largest string band. Thanks to all the advice on different approaches to managing these stretches. I'll give them all a go. Rob www.robmackillop.net On 4 Oct 2011, at 12:02, William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Hi Martyn, I believe I've found David's stuff on string spacings in the archive: [1]http://www.mail-archive.com/lute@cs.dartmouth.edu/msg19722.html Best regards, Bill From: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk To: BAROQUE-LUTE baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Rob MacKillop robmackil...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, 4 October 2011, 10:25 Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: L'Infidele Dear Rob, It is a stretch but I do think the low A (ie 13th) is meant: the BL MS is very clear and there are no signs of an a on the 6th course being altered to a 6 (as we sometimes find elsewhere). I think there are two factors here: 1. Clearly much depends on how one disposes the hand: to play such extensions I move the thumb closer to the bridge (ie behind the plucking position of the fingers) and I find this allows the first and 13th to be plucked simultaneously. 2. The other thing is that I'm not quite sure if a string band of 153mm isn't a bit too wide for a 13 course instrument. The JC Hoffmann (1730) string band is 140mm (both the Museum and Stephen Murphy's drawings) and my own instrument is 145mm (based on an average inter-course seperation of 12mm). As pointed out in a FoMRHI paper several years ago, there is some evidence that inter-course seperation reduced with the advent of the additional two bass courses (eg the earlier 11 course JC Hoffmann of 1716 has an average inter-course seperation of around 13mm) but I agree that some of the later large theorboed German lutes exhibit quite large inter-course seperation. However Weiss seems to have written for the 13th course instrument with a single pegbox (with treble and bass riders) as the 1730 Hoffmann as witnessed by stopping basses below course 8 and not the late 'galant' type of 13th course lute. Incidentally, Baron (1727) particularly singles out JC Hoffmann for making instruments which fit the hand: in DA Smith's translation 'He [JCH] also knows how to place the courses and strings at the proper distances so that his lutes can be manipulated very easily'. Finally, could you remind me of the paper /research source which analysis the sizes of 13th course bridges and suggests an average of 153mm? regards, Martyn From: Rob MacKillop [2]robmackil...@gmail.com Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] L'Infidele To: BAROQUE-LUTE [3]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Tuesday, 4 October, 2011, 9:05 Enjoying exploring my new 13c, and slowly getting the feel for right-hand string spacing and thumb placement. I'm determined not to look at my right hand, just feel my way. So, I've been slowly growing in confidence...until I read through Weiss' L'Infidele. It's years since I listened to anyone play this suite, and it was a great joy to start reading through the Entree: 'Hey, I can do this!'. I read the Courante slowly, but thinking it a possibility I will one day be able to play it up tempo. The Sarabande, like all Weiss Sarabandes, is sublimely beautiful. The minuet lies under the fingers. So, I was beginning to think this is a suite I can get my teeth into. Then I hit the Musette... Bar 4 demands the thumb on the 13th course, the index on the 5th and (presumably) the ring finger on the 1st. The string band on my lute is 153mm, and I have large hands. I should be able to do this, but is is very hard. I can manage it, but, clearly, at a stretch. 153mm does not seem excessive, and is pretty much bang in the middle of all surviving 13c bridges, in other words an average size. Will practise of this passage make my stretch longer? Anyone else have problems with this passage? I seem (in desperation, maybe) to recall someone arguing that originally the low A was up an octave at the 6th course, and the 13th course was written in later. Any info on that? Rob MacKillop www.robmackillop.net To get on or off this list see list information at [1][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.mail-archive.com/lute@cs.dartmouth.edu/msg19722.html 2. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com 3. mailto:baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: L'Infidele
Robert Barto uses a string band of 152mm, no real difference to my 153mm, so I have nothing to complain about. Just get on with it, MacKillop! Rob www.robmackillop.net On 4 Oct 2011, at 14:06, William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: At a quick glance I'd say that the median is about 146mm. I'd love to see similar figures for 11c lutes. I once heard an eminent maker say that they tended to be more widely spaced than the first 11 courses of a 13 course lute, and it would be nice to see that confirmed (or not) with hard evidence. Incidentally, Diana Poulton had small hands, and she always played with her little finger on the bridge. Bill From: Rob MacKillop robmackil...@gmail.com To: William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk; BAROQUE-LUTE baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, 4 October 2011, 12:44 Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: L'Infidele Thanks, Bill. That's it. To which Malcolm added a few more, including the bizarre c.160mm on the small Berr, the smallest lute but with the largest string band. Thanks to all the advice on different approaches to managing these stretches. I'll give them all a go. Rob www.robmackillop.net On 4 Oct 2011, at 12:02, William Samson [1]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Hi Martyn, I believe I've found David's stuff on string spacings in the archive: [1][2]http://www.mail-archive.com/lute@cs.dartmouth.edu/msg19722.html Best regards, Bill From: Martyn Hodgson [3]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk To: BAROQUE-LUTE [4]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Rob MacKillop [5]robmackil...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, 4 October 2011, 10:25 Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: L'Infidele Dear Rob, It is a stretch but I do think the low A (ie 13th) is meant: the BL MS is very clear and there are no signs of an a on the 6th course being altered to a 6 (as we sometimes find elsewhere). I think there are two factors here: 1. Clearly much depends on how one disposes the hand: to play such extensions I move the thumb closer to the bridge (ie behind the plucking position of the fingers) and I find this allows the first and 13th to be plucked simultaneously. 2. The other thing is that I'm not quite sure if a string band of 153mm isn't a bit too wide for a 13 course instrument. The JC Hoffmann (1730) string band is 140mm (both the Museum and Stephen Murphy's drawings) and my own instrument is 145mm (based on an average inter-course seperation of 12mm). As pointed out in a FoMRHI paper several years ago, there is some evidence that inter-course seperation reduced with the advent of the additional two bass courses (eg the earlier 11 course JC Hoffmann of 1716 has an average inter-course seperation of around 13mm) but I agree that some of the later large theorboed German lutes exhibit quite large inter-course seperation. However Weiss seems to have written for the 13th course instrument with a single pegbox (with treble and bass riders) as the 1730 Hoffmann as witnessed by stopping basses below course 8 and not the late 'galant' type of 13th course lute. Incidentally, Baron (1727) particularly singles out JC Hoffmann for making instruments which fit the hand: in DA Smith's translation 'He [JCH] also knows how to place the courses and strings at the proper distances so that his lutes can be manipulated very easily'. Finally, could you remind me of the paper /research source which analysis the sizes of 13th course bridges and suggests an average of 153mm? regards, Martyn From: Rob MacKillop [2][6]robmackil...@gmail.com Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] L'Infidele To: BAROQUE-LUTE [3][7]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Tuesday, 4 October, 2011, 9:05 Enjoying exploring my new 13c, and slowly getting the feel for right-hand string spacing and thumb placement. I'm determined not to look at my right hand, just feel my way. So, I've been slowly growing in confidence...until I read through Weiss' L'Infidele. It's years since I listened to anyone play this suite, and it was a great joy to start reading through the Entree: 'Hey, I can do this!'. I read the Courante slowly, but thinking it a possibility I will one day be able to play it up tempo. The Sarabande, like all Weiss Sarabandes, is sublimely beautiful. The minuet lies under the fingers. So, I was beginning to think this is a suite I can get my teeth into. Then I hit the Musette... Bar 4 demands the thumb on the 13th course, the index on the 5th and (presumably) the ring finger on the 1st. The string band on my lute is 153mm, and I have large hands. I should be able to do this, but is is very hard. I can manage it, but, clearly, at a stretch. 153mm does not seem excessive, and is pretty much bang in the middle
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: L'Infidele
That's getting on the wide side, Sterling. Would you have a problem with Bar 4 of L'Infidele? I agree that close spacing is difficult. I don't know how people can play with a string band of less than 148, but they do. People find a way. Rob www.robmackillop.net On 4 Oct 2011, at 22:34, sterling price spiffys84...@yahoo.com wrote: The bridge spacing I use is 157mm and is based on a large Edlinger. Whenever I play a lute with a spacing much smaller than this, I find it very difficult to play. --Sterling From: Rob MacKillop robmackil...@gmail.com To: BAROQUE-LUTE baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2011 2:05 AM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] L'Infidele Enjoying exploring my new 13c, and slowly getting the feel for right-hand string spacing and thumb placement. I'm determined not to look at my right hand, just feel my way. So, I've been slowly growing in confidence...until I read through Weiss' L'Infidele. It's years since I listened to anyone play this suite, and it was a great joy to start reading through the Entree: 'Hey, I can do this!'. I read the Courante slowly, but thinking it a possibility I will one day be able to play it up tempo. The Sarabande, like all Weiss Sarabandes, is sublimely beautiful. The minuet lies under the fingers. So, I was beginning to think this is a suite I can get my teeth into. Then I hit the Musette... Bar 4 demands the thumb on the 13th course, the index on the 5th and (presumably) the ring finger on the 1st. The string band on my lute is 153mm, and I have large hands. I should be able to do this, but is is very hard. I can manage it, but, clearly, at a stretch. 153mm does not seem excessive, and is pretty much bang in the middle of all surviving 13c bridges, in other words an average size. Will practise of this passage make my stretch longer? Anyone else have problems with this passage? I seem (in desperation, maybe) to recall someone arguing that originally the low A was up an octave at the 6th course, and the 13th course was written in later. Any info on that? Rob MacKillop [1]www.robmackillop.net To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.robmackillop.net/
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Bouvier
I love D Major tuning. There is a big section in the Balcarres ms which uses it, and I think it is the most successful part. Rob www.robmackillop.net On 22 Aug 2011, at 08:17, William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: There are pieces by Bouvier in the Panmure 4 (En-9451) MS in D minor tuning. There's another composer I haven't come across elsewhere called Hautman - but the tuning he uses in Panmure 4 is D major. Bill From: mathias.roe...@t-online.de mathias.roe...@t-online.de To: Baroque Lute Net baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, 22 August 2011, 8:00 Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Bouvier Nicolas Bouvier is one of three composers who published lute music in D-minor tuning for the first time in 1638. The others were Dubut in Paris, and Pierre Gaultier in Rome. Wish I could play it better, with more air and more like singing. Anyway, you'll get the idea ... - enjoy! [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwQoCrsItuQ Allemande [2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGdtAxipXgA Courante To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwQoCrsItuQ 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGdtAxipXgA 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Odp: Re: another portrait of S.L. Weiss?
Interesting point, Martyn. I don't have the picture to hand. How many strings or tuning pegs are shown? I still think the four-string gallichon of circa 90cms length would make a great baroque bass instrument. It's not an instrument I've ever seen associated with Weiss, but that means little. Rob On 11 July 2011 09:52, Martyn Hodgson [1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Good point Rob, but, if we're thinking of one of the pictures, I recall it seems to show a large lute with a single neck. Whilst this could, of course, be the engraver's own fancy it might suggest the performer is playing a gallichon (large continuo type).. Martyn --- On Mon, 11/7/11, Rob MacKillop [2]robmackil...@gmail.com wrote: From: Rob MacKillop [3]robmackil...@gmail.com Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Odp: Re: another portrait of S.L. Weiss? To: [4]mar...@gmlutz.de Cc: BAROQUE-LUTE [5]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Monday, 11 July, 2011, 9:33 I am well out of my depth here, so apologies, but are there not also a couple of paintings or engravings which might show Weiss at work? One is an opera setting, with a possible Weiss in the orchestral pit? The other is a small ensemble gathering, with a possible Weiss playing a long German theorbo (i.e. not a theorbo-lute)? Not exactly 'portraits', but worth mentioning, maybe? Rob MacKillop -- To get on or off this list see list information at [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 2. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com 3. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com 4. mailto:mar...@gmlutz.de 5. mailto:baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Weiss concerto
Wasn't that amazing? Made my day. Congratulations to Lucas and the gang. Does anyone know if other movements were recorded, or if, indeed, there are other movements? Rob www.robmackillop.net On 2 Jul 2011, at 02:55, Ed Durbrow edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp wrote: There are some performers in command of their music! Very nice. The only thing I didn't like was the pixelation of the strings on my video screen. On Jul 2, 2011, at 9:47 AM, Daniel Shoskes wrote: Lucas Harris and Taffelmusik: [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOAzSVXm4-E To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [2]http://www.musicianspage.com/musicians/9688/ [3]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOAzSVXm4-E 2. http://www.musicianspage.com/musicians/9688/ 3. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Gehema lute book
Very nice playing, Mathias. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Falkenhagen
2009/2/28 Dale Young [1]dyoung5...@wowway.com I am now listening to what I believe to be the single most incredible piece of lute music ever written...Falckenhagen's Preludio nel quale sono contenuti tutti i tuoni musicali, as performed by Paul Beier.Stunning in content and display. Agreed! Let's hear it more often. Rob MacKillop -- References 1. mailto:dyoung5...@wowway.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Harp Strings
Hi Chris, I used to play with a harp player, Bill Taylor, who worked for [1]www.ardivalharps.com who supplied strings for period and modern small harps. They just ordered theirs from Aquila... Rob MacKillop 2008/12/21 [2]chriswi...@yahoo.com Hello Fonts of Wisdom, I'm wanting to do some experimenting with different bass strings for my bass rider 13-course. Does anyone have experience using harp strings? I've noticed that Bow Brand has gut strings for around $20 a piece. If this even works, its not terribly cheap, but acceptable for a trial run. I have no idea how you order them - they don't sell them by gauges, but rather by harp maker and octave. An tips? Chris To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.ardivalharps.com/ 2. mailto:chriswi...@yahoo.com 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: a very basic question
So there is no confusion over which note is the 'melody' note and which is the ornament? Rob 2008/8/20 Ed Durbrow [EMAIL PROTECTED] So many players interpret the comma ornament as an appogiatura in a measured way. If this is correct, why didn't the composer just write a note? Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [EMAIL PROTECTED] [3]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 3. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] new videos
Six short videos of pieces from Wemyss, Straloch and Panmure manuscripts: http://www.vimeo.com/robmackillop/videos Cheers, Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: new videos
I agree, it is a beautiful piece. My wife's favourite. Rob 2008/5/27 Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The Courante is just lovely. RT - Original Message - From: Rob MacKillop [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Baroque-Lute baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 1:45 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] new videos Six short videos of pieces from Wemyss, Straloch and Panmure manuscripts: http://www.vimeo.com/robmackillop/videos Cheers, Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[BAROQUE-LUTE] new website
I've decided to put all my mp3 sound files on a dedicated website called Song Of The Rose (www.songoftherose.co.uk). I have no interest anymore in making CDs, so all my future solo files will be placed here. It currently includes a performance of Bach's 2nd suite for cello on 11c. Much more to follow in due course. Cheers, Rob MacKillop -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: zoom
Very beautiful. Rob On 20/04/2008, Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I decided (against my better judgement) to run the recorder during the rehearsal on Friday, and this is what came of that: http://torban.org/audio/bida1.mp3 RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[BAROQUE-LUTE] website update
Luthier Malcolm Prior has updated his website: http://www.malcolmprior.co.uk/index.htm - he took some time out when his wife started having children. He is now fully back into lute making and has a fairly short waiting time, as well as non-commissioned instruments coming up for sale. Highly recommended! Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] new theorbo
I've been reminded that some of you on this Baroque Lute list are not on the Lute list, so here is a cross posting (sorry if you have received it twice). I have a wonderful new theorbo. Sound file and pics: http://www.rmguitar.info/theorbo.htm Rob PS I suppose a theorbo is a baroque lute of sorts, so not off topic...possibly the first baroque lute...? -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Resubmission
I liked both interpretations. Let's hear more. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Resubmission
The ones that got away are always better! (Not the most grammatically-correct sentence I've ever written!). You seemed to relax into it more before the end. It didn't sound like you were on rhythmic autopilot, which it often does when one is experimenting with inegales. Keep up the good work. Whether one should play an allemande in such a style is a question for debate, of course, but it sounds nice! Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Bringing a large lute back from Europe
Here is Lynda Sayce's essay on the subject of flying with a theorbo: http://www.theorbo.com/Writings/Flying.htm Rob On 06/03/2008, Thomas Tallant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone have any good advice for how to bring a large lute from Europe to the United States? In this case the instrument would be a lute with a neck extension (a theorbo). Someone will bring the instrument from Europe to the U.S., checking it onboard an airplane. The instrument would be kept in its Kingham case. Perhaps one could wrap the entire thing in thick bubble wrap and check it? Thomas - Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Rank Amateur Recording # 4
Very nice, Stephen. Working your way to a complete recording of the Barbe? Why not? Seriously, that is a beautiful piece. Your playing gets better with each recording. You seem to be relaxing more with each piece, getting used to the microphone, listening to the music more. Keep up the good work. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] de Visée
Thanks Theo. I already have it, and agree with everything you said. Great flute playing! Nice to hear ensemble versions of these works. Here it is: * http://tinyurl.com/22dcmk* ** Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] de Visée
Strange booklet notes: ''...like everyone else, I use strings which do not sound as they should. They produce a sound that is admittedly compelling and powerful, but to my ears too flashy, indeed vulgar, and which hinders the transmission of the discourse.'' So why do it? - might seem like the obvious question. I guess, like me, Pascal prefers gut, but is not satisfied with the current state of gut strings. I think string makers have cracked the manufacture of trebles and mid-range. Still not convinced about those basses. I hope Mimmo's new strings will change our minds. I look forward to trying them someday. Keep up the good work, Mimmo and Dan and whoever else is experimenting. I wouldn't go so far as to say Pascal's strings sound vulgar, and I wouldn't record if that were the case. And I certainly wouldn't rubbish my own sound in my own booklet notes. Ah, the French are different...eh, Anthony? I saw Pascal in Glasgow once, and he was brilliant. No vulgarity anywhere. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] de Visée
I can certainly sympathise with him. The booklet note ends with him inviting us to his house in the Philippines...if we are passing. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] de Visée
On 28/02/2008, T. Diehl-Peshkur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I calculate that for a theorbo, you would be paying out more than $ 1,200 USD just for strings Wow! I could keep a horse for a year... Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Rank Amateur [Exerciser for aging fingers]
In my experience, students tend to use ten times the amount of pressure and energy than required, so when I see talk of finger strengtheners I get worried. The great classical guitarist, David Russell, taught me an invaluable lesson in this regard. Put your left hand index finger on any note, say for example the fifth fret of the first string. Don't press it down yet, just touch it with the fingertip. Start continuously plucking the string. Obviously you get a muted note. Now slowly start adding pressure as you move the string towards the fingerboard. Soon the note will sound well. At that point, start decreasing the pressure back to where you started. You are teaching your muscles to apply the minimum pressure needed to fret a note. My bet it is that it is a LOT less pressure than you are used to applying. Now try it with other fingers. Then try playing a scale without open strings with this same technique. Go up and down the scale a few times from zero pressure to just enough and back again. Do this at the start of every practice session. Worked for me. Your fingers are more than strong enough. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Rank Amateur [Exerciser for aging fingers]
Excellent advice, David. Paul Galbraith told me to feel different surfaces gently with my fingertips - clothes, tables, guitar (lute) case - before plucking the string. It awakens the fingers to the subtleties of touch. Left and right hand shape the tone together 100 per cent right on. Rob On 26/02/2008, LGS-Europe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your fingers are more than strong enough. With pressure, less is more. It is easy to flex a muscle fast. Put your hand in a flame, get stung by a bee or catch a falling lute to try. But it takes time to relax a muscle, we all know that. So to develop speed on a lute, we have to minimize our pressure. I can put down a finger fast enough, but I cannot lift it fast enough. With less pressure, I can lift faster and my speed will improve. Another reason why less pressure is better: with more pressure we feel less. Left and right hand shape the tone together, the only feedback we get before we actually pluck the string is through the contact of our fingertips. If we use more muscle, we feel less. Keep your sense of touch alive by using less pressure, and your tone will improve if you 'listen' to the feedback your fingertips give you. David David van Ooijen [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.davidvanooijen.nl To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Bach's bass lines
Mimmo sent me an interesting idea. He agreed that I could forward it to you guys. I think Martyn holds a similar position? Rob Silk bass strings like the 19th c guitars Rob. My point of wiwe of course This is why I think that the Gallicone was so suitable on bass line and powerful. My idea is that the guitar copyed it and added the 6th bass. There are no any document that justify this point. I just consider that this instrument is of the same proportion of a classical guitar of the Torres- time. And so: gallicone in D: 70-73 cms Guitar in E: 65 cms more or less All is so well relate. different than d minor lutes, tined a third higher F. In practise they, on gallicone,. employed the close wound silk strings, no the open ones. And the 4th was close wound, this time. You immage a sound powerfull like our guitars with basses with less sustain due to a silk silk. MImmo Ciao Mimmo -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Bach's bass lines
There's a thought. I'll write to you privately, Martyn. Rob On 21/02/2008, Martyn Hodgson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rob, I'd be happy to lend you my large single strung gallichon in A for a few months if you could pick it up and arrange insurance etc. regards, Martyn -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Rank Amateur Recording # 3
Stephen, You mentioned books - do you have the baroque lute tutor by Satoh and the one by Miguel Serdoura, 'Collection Le Secret Des Muses'? The latter has lots of exercises and easy pieces. I have the French version which was published by the French Lute Society, but I believe it has been withdrawn and will be published by another publisher both in French and a seperate English language volume. Anthony should be able to update us on that. It is 346 pages long and includes good biographies of the main and lesser-known composers. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Bach's bass lines
Despite what the Barbarous Barber might say, Martyn is a very talented man - he made his own gallichon, and is also a leading scholar in the world of the gallichon, and although I've never heard him play, I'm told he is a fine performer too. Maybe he would make you one, Dale? If not, I'm sure most luthiers would like to try. The questions are: what pitch, string length, single or double courses, and how many courses? It does seem to have been overlooked my most of us as a very useful continuo instrument. High Baroque bass lines do tend to get very chromatic, and the gallichon does seem to be the only instrument of the lute family which could play them. Rob On 21/02/2008, Dale Young [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martyn, I want one! Who built yours? Dale -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Rank Amateur Recording # 3
Well done Stephen. I think the performance is better than the last recording, although that wasn't bad at all. Another nice piece and a nice performance. What more could anyone ask for? Keep up the good work. I'm off to listen to it again... Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Pitch for French music
I play at 392 with a string length of 69. My baroque guitar is also at 392 for de Visee. This is a home recording of my 11c: http://www.rmguitar.info/mp3s/11c/TombeauDeDuBut.mp3 Some like that low pitch, others don't. You will read conflicting reports about pitch during this period in France, and ultimtely you will have to make your own choice. I've made mine. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Tombeau de du But
I'd like to thank all those people who have written to me over the last couple of weeks enquiring about my arm. I'm happy to report that it feels 100 per cent fine. However, I'm not rushing back into playing for as many hours as I can cram into the day, and restricting myself to half an hour in the morning and the same in the evening. This morning I managed to record on my Martin Shepherd 11c the beautiful 'Tombeau de du But' by Robert de Visee. I think someone else on this list asked the question: did anyone ever write a bad tombeau? I don't think so. It seemed to bring out the best in them. This one is very moving, and I hope you enjoy listening to it. I consider it a 'work in progress' recording. You can find it just above the photo of me holding the lute near the bottom of this page: http://www.rmguitar.info/Maler.htm Cheers, Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Tombeau de du But
Thanks for the kind comments, Stephen. I thought you were being sarcastic at first! I guess I'm just lucky in getting a recording set up which works for me. It worked on my old Dell PC and on my Sony Vaio. Sorry it doesn't work for everyone. I couldn't buy the Nero wave Editor independent of the other things, but I have a use for some of them. But the wave editor is nothing special, very basic in fact. I'm sure there are freebies out there just as useful. Likewise the strings. I have to admit I'm really not one who spends much time working these things out. But when I do get new strings, I spend a LONG time just playing single notes in different positions, with a subtle, almost not there, vibrato. I also play chromatic scales quite slowly on all the fretted positions on all the strings, massaging the soundboard into life. The things is not to pluck the string, but to coax the sound out. Each instrument works differently, so you have to find the sweet spot with each one. I find the different string materials work differently, but eventually the instrument yeilds its secrets no matter gut or nylon. Well, that's the way I see it. YMMV. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Tombeau de du But
Hi Jaroslaw, I have a cheap microphone, a stereo condenser by Sony, the *Sony ECM-MS907*. You can get them for around 50 UKpounds. It's the same as Martin Shepherd's. We also both use Nero Wave Editor which I use for chopping the ends off the files and adding reverb- this time I only added a little, but enough to bring out the natural resonance of the instrument. Martin found that the set up of mic and software did not work so well for him, so he bought the zoom and is getting great results. I'm just lucky that the mic works well with the stock soundcard which came with my Sony laptop. So I just put the mic straight into the laptop and add a touch of reverb. I'm not really into trying to make a CD-quality recording. I don't think there is an inexpensive way to do that. If I wanted to do a CD, I would pay to get it done professionally. However, the quality I get from spending 100 UK pounds is certainly good enough for mp3 downloads on a website. I use nylgut-core fundamentals, the D variety. Here is a list of measurements followed by their tensions (worked out by Martin): Nylgut 1. 46 2. 50 3. 62 4. 75 5. 91 6. 124D + 60 7. 140D + 68 8. 155D + 76 9. 165D + 82 10. 10. 185D + 91 11. 11. 210D + 100D Tensions for Nylgut 1 41 2 34.5 3 30 4 28 5 28.5 6 30 + 28.5 7 30 + 28.5 8 29.5 + 28.5 9 28 + 24 (midway between E and Eb) 10 29 + 28.5 11 30 + 27.5 Glad you like the sound! Rob On 12/02/2008, Jaros³aw Lipski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rob, De Visee sounds really nice even with nylgut. I wonder what you used for bass fundamentals? Also the quality of the recording is very good. Curious what mics did you used? No reverb added? Anyway, thanks for sharing this piece with us. I am glad your arm is fine :-) Best wishes Jaroslaw -Original Message- From: Rob MacKillop [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 11:54 AM To: Baroque-Lute Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Tombeau de du But I'd like to thank all those people who have written to me over the last couple of weeks enquiring about my arm. I'm happy to report that it feels 100 per cent fine. However, I'm not rushing back into playing for as many hours as I can cram into the day, and restricting myself to half an hour in the morning and the same in the evening. This morning I managed to record on my Martin Shepherd 11c the beautiful 'Tombeau de du But' by Robert de Visee. I think someone else on this list asked the question: did anyone ever write a bad tombeau? I don't think so. It seemed to bring out the best in them. This one is very moving, and I hope you enjoy listening to it. I consider it a 'work in progress' recording. You can find it just above the photo of me holding the lute near the bottom of this page: http://www.rmguitar.info/Maler.htm Cheers, Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Tombeau de du But
Good question, Mathias. I don't have a worked-out answer. As I said, I consider it a 'work in progress' recording. A lot of French baroque lute music seems to me to be less about a long arching melody than a sequence of sighing moments set up over an almost formulaic chord sequence. I guess I'm interpreting this 'macro sighing concept' (!) on a micro level - the shorter trills repeat the painful dissonance/consonance aspect - but I'm beginning to talk a load of crap, so I'll stop. :-) It comes out the way it comes out because that's the way it comes out. There you go! Rob On 12/02/2008, Mathias R=F6sel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Beautiful. - What made you choose the ornaments the way you did? I seem to notice kind of a preponderance for rather short trills instead of long appogiature. -- Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[BAROQUE-LUTE] I haven't got the guts anymore!
You may recall my acquisition of a new 11c lute and experiments in pitch with all-gut strings. I really like the sound, for the most part, but the basses were impossible to tune or keep in tune, and first strings were an expense. Anyway, still experimenting, I thought I would try Nylgut - here are the measurements (A=392, string length 69cms): 1. 46 2. 50 3. 62 4. 75 5. 91 6. 124D + 60 7. 140D + 68 8. 185D + 76 9. 165D + 91 10. 155D + 75 11. 210D + 100D The sound is radically different. I have to say that when I first put them on I thought they sounded awful. The lute became a monster, out of control. But after a week they have settled quite a bit. The sound is still VERY different to gut, but there are aspects of them I find attractive - playing in tune for one! I use a few different tunings: F sharp or E flat in the basses, but I also play many pieces from Balcarres in D Major tuning - all the f strings become f sharp (including the first course) and a c sharp on the 11th. Tuning a gut first-string to f sharp was impossible. All the other strings would have to go flat. So, EASE OF USE is a big factor with nylgut. When I first put the nylgut on I had to adapt my playing style quite a bit. Slow movements like sarbandes, Tombeaux, allemandes, sounded very 'heroic', rather than intimate. But as the strings begin to relax, I feel myself being able to play the way I want to play, closer to how I played with gut. Overall, I prefer the sound of gut, especially at home, late a night, with candle light (it was Christmas, after all), but professional engagements in cold churches, air conditioning, warm changing rooms, etc. I think, ultimately, I want a bit of both, the warmth of gut, the convenience and stability of nylgut. I made new sound files this afternoon. See what you think: http://www.rmguitar.info/Maler.htm - scroll to near the bottom of the page. My wife says the lute sounds better 'live' than on the recordings.Comments welcome. And, yes, Anthony, you can accidently cross-post this to the 'proper' lute list if you want! ;-) www.rmguitar.info -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Lauffensteiner pdfs online
I have now managed to upload what is thought to be the complete surviving Lauffensteiner: http://www.rmguitar.info/scores.htm The ensemble works are very interesting, including a very good suite for two lutes. Unfortunately not all the ensemble parts survive. Thanks again to Doug. I've edited the page turns to make the works easier to perform. Happy Christmas. Rob MacKillop www.rmguitar.info -Original Message- From: Rob [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 24 December 2007 13:08 To: 'baroque Lutelist' Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Lauffensteiner pdfs online Eight solo suites and one concerto, with more to follow when I get the time: http://www.rmguitar.info/scores.htm I got permission from Doug Towne to upload my pdfs. Many thanks to him for typesetting them in the first place. Lauffensteiner is clearly a major baroque-lute composer, and deserves our attention. Enjoy! Rob www.rmguitar.info -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Burwell
Same address as these guys: http://www.recordermail.co.uk/ Rob www.rmguitar.info -Original Message- From: Edward Martin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you for your email. These works have been transferred to Ruxbury Publications, of Scout Bottom Farm, Mytholmroyd, HX7 5JS, 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: (218) 728-1202 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: RH on the bridge?
Please be careful, Anthony. The photo of me grinning like an idiot does not show me playing a la Mouton. I have now adopted, more or less, Mouton's technique which is closer to the bridge than I am using in that photo. I say more or less, because, of course, the position is not fixed, is quite fluid and allied to the subtle dynamic and tonal nuances of the music. When that photo was taken I had only seen the lute for a few minutes and hadn't really played anything. I was grinning because Martin had just accepted a dud cheque, the value of which he will discover tomorrow! Rob -Original Message- From: Anthony Hind [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] The example he chooses is Charles Mouton, so we can compare with the rh position that Rob has also adopted; Rob: http://tinyurl.com/2dlsa3 Charles: http://tinyurl.com/yvlvvq To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: new sound file for 11c
Thanks Theo and Anthony, Yes, these gimped strings are new to me, the Pistoys too. So it's not just a case of getting used to 11 courses and new repertoire, but new strings also. I will doubtless experiment a bit over time, but gut basses are expensive! I'd love to hear your Andy Rutherford 11c, Theo, and Anthony's Gottlieb when it arrives. Mary Burwell said the French fashion was for a single 11th course - I might try that with a thicker fundamental. I'm probably finished recording for the moment, but might take you up on the idea of recording the same piece in a couple of months, just to see what differences there are. Rob www.rmguitar.info -Original Message- From: T. Diehl-Peshkur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 14 December 2007 10:41 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: new sound file for 11c Hi Rob, Thanks for the link, very nice! From my own experience, I picked up my Andy Rutherford 11 course about a 2 months ago, all gut, with gimped basses from Larson. The basses developed quite dramatically in the first few month- especially after working on them vigorously for some time. I think it is a combination of the string developing as well as the soundboard. My suspicion is that in about a month or two, those basses of yours are going to be quite different. It would be fun to record the same piece again at that time to see what happens! Cheers, Theo From: Rob [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 10:19:14 - To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] new sound file for 11c I've made an mp3 of the Chaconne in Am by de Visee with my right hand little finger resting on the bridge. This technique is depicted in a number of paintings and seems to work well with all-gut strings. I once tried it on a lute strung in nylon and it sounded quite poor. I think it works well with gut, so might try to adopt it as my 11c technique. On the other hand (not literally) the famous painting/engraving of Mouton has his hand a little further from the bridge with little finger on the sound board, but still nowhere near the rose. The gimped strings seem to have settled. Here it is: http://www.rmguitar.info/Maler.htm - scroll to the bottom of the page. Man, I love this lute! Please excuse all this sudden enthusiasm! Rob www.rmguitar.info -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: new sound file for 11c
I once was given a Rainsong guitar to try, they make carbon-fibre steel-string guitars. It was an astonishingly good guitar, and I used it the day I got it for a live solo radio broadcast. I didn't buy it because I already had a good acoustic, but I was impressed. The thing is, it had a great sound, but a different sound, something unique. And, of course, carbon is also a natural resource, so it is no more Green than using wood. It might be interesting to hear a lute made of CF, but I'm sure, like the guitar, it would sound subtly different, and therefore not a lute. But, then again, we don't really know what lutes sounded like in the 16th/17th centuries...maybe our modern lutes are subtly different? One great advantage of CF instruments is that they are not affected by humidity and temperature change. I'm sure many a touring lute player would be pleased about that. Rob www.rmguitar.info -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 14 December 2007 16:05 To: Baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: new sound file for 11c Well, this may be heresy and I'll get burned at the stake again, but ... These guys are making violins, violas, cellos and now basses with carbon fiber, I wonder how that would work as a lute back or back and sides for a classical guitar? http://www.luisandclark.com/ It might eliminate the issue of how many ribs effect the sound, effectively having only a 1 piece shell. -David - Original Message - From: Anthony Hind [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, December 14, 2007 10:19 am Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: new sound file for 11c To: Baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rob How could it have meant anything else? Small point of grammar? I suppose I should have said plastics as opposed to plastic. A friend who has recently begun to move from synthetics to gut, told me he realized that the presence of even a small ammount of gut frees up the sound. Just as you suggested for the small number of ribs . This gives me an idea that lute makers will probably not like. How about making a lute in an acoustically predictable material (ie not wood), and then experimenting with different numbers of ribs to see what the effect really is? The problem, is that when you compare, even two almost identical lutes, the wood, the glue, the varnish are all variables that confuse the results. I think I remember a lute maker on the list, once said he had experimented with papier maché and got quite good results, but there again, papier maché is not quite predictable enough. Oups, am I being Owlish, again Best Regards Anthony Le 14 déc. 07 à 15:58, Anthony Hind a écrit : Plastic Ukele string free, oups sorry, no really, I don't mean it. Anthony Le 14 déc. 07 à 15:53, Rob a écrit : it is very good to see that you are finally making your 11c Malers...also that they are plastic free. Plastic?! Rob To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: scores
Hi Chris, Taco and Mathias, and others, I could change my Fronimo files to Italian tab, but the bass courses don't transcribe accurately, so I would have to edit all the basses, and I can't be bothered. Plus I don't want to replicate what already exists - the facsimile publication. But the Fronimo files are there for anyone else who wants to do this... Rob www.rmguitar.info -Original Message- From: Mathias Rösel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 13 December 2007 16:57 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Taco Walstra'; baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: scores It's a public secret, I guess, that any Fronimo user can easily settle the matter with a click 8) Mathias [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: --- Rob [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would be a good idea if you provide an italian tab version too, because this makes it easier to compare with the original version. Taco But that would be illegal, unless I was given permission to provide a facsimile, which is not the case. I also prefer the original for study, but I know I can't cope with more than one style of tab in a concert situation. Ideally, people should buy the facsimile and use the French version if they want to. I think maybe Taco had in mind a modern edition in Italian tab alongside the French version. If you went to the trouble to edit and re-set the published facsimile, that wouldn't be illegal because it would be your edition - the same as your current French tab version is. (I think. If I'm wrong, someone please correct me!) Chris To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: theorbo music sources
Jurek, You should ask Lynda Sayce: www.theorbo.com Rob www.rmguitar.info -Original Message- From: Jerzy Zak [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 12 December 2007 19:28 To: Barocklautenliste Lutelist' Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] theorbo music sources Dear List, I know, the Christian MEYER catalogue of sources, both on paper and on the net is a splendid tool for searching through music in tablature, .but it doesn't mention (the www part) what is for lute and what is for a theorbo. In case of Italian chitarrone music there is Kevin Mason book, too, very usefull. My question, therefore, is -- do you know of any listing, possibly complete, of all other, not Italian, that is French!, German?, English??, etc., theorbo music sources, with their contents, of course? Thanks in advance, Jurek _ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Theorbo
I think there are more theorbo players on the main lute list, Theo, so you might get more feedback there. Everyone is different, of course, and what works for me might not work for you. I found the larger one easier in every respect - musically and physically. Rob www.rmguitar.info _ From: T. Diehl-Peshkur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 08 December 2007 17:37 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Theorbo Thanks for that. Musically, that extra sound you mention is a very clear example, and I can follow that. But also fingering wise? In other words, did your fingers feel OK with that length in solo work as well? 76cm I can cope with the first frets; but 86 mentally seems a whole other ball game in those positions... Theo _ From: Rob [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 17:12:59 - To: 'T. Diehl-Peshkur' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Theorbo Everything is difficult. Getting out of bed is very difficult. Is a large theorbo more difficult than a small one? Well, I used to have both a large 86cms theorbo and a small French one at 76cms at the same time. I actually found the larger one easier. Why, you might well ask? I'm not sure. Maybe the extra resonance helped the music breathe more, and gave me seemingly more time to move around. The small one felt more like a lute or a classical guitar (although with more strings). I sold the small one eventually. The large one was on loan to me from an institution I was teaching at. I no longer teach there, and am looking forward to a new theorbo arriving in a couple of months. I think the French repertoire sounds great on large theorbos, but don't think the Italian repertoire sounds as good on small ones. Rob www.rmguitar.info -Original Message- From: T. Diehl-Peshkur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 08 December 2007 17:04 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Theorbo Hi Rob, Interesting. This is all new info for me. You will be getting an instrument at 86 cm- so quite full sized. Can you describe any problems of dealing with that length and playing more soloist pieces? Isn't that quite difficult? Thanks, Theo From: Rob [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 16:58:53 - To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Theorbo Hi Theo, Some confusion here. Assuming de Visee used the small theorbo, it would be strung in the old tuning but with both the first and second courses down an octave AND the whole thing moved up in pitch so that the first course is a D. This is what I meant when I said you could tune it in D, not D minor tuning. I apologise for not being explicit enough. But it is not certain that he used a small theorbo for his solo pieces, but probable. However, should you want to play Piccinini and Kapsberger as well - they would have been unlikely to play their music on a theorbo in D. But let's get things in perspective, if you want to play both Italian and French theorbo music to yourself, I wouldn't get too worked up about pitch. You say you are mainly concerned with late repertoire, so de Visee in old tuning, with the first two courses down an octave, based on D would be perfect, in my opinion. I have a theorbo arriving in January/February, but at 86 cms I will be tuning it in A, but definitely playing de Visee alongside Piccinini and Kapsberger. Rob www.rmguitar.info -Original Message- From: T. Diehl-Peshkur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 08 December 2007 16:48 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Theorbo Hello Rob, Name's Theo :-) Thanks for the info. I assumed that the old renaissance lute tuning with a re-entrant chanterelle was still used by Visee et al, and only know Visee from recordings. Do you mean that a D minor tuning can be used on such a 14 course instrument? Thanks, Theo From: Rob [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 16:33:44 - To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Theorbo Hi (what's your first name?) All the surviving solo repertoire (and I'm sure someone will correct me if am wrong) is for 6 courses on the fingerboard. Some players prefer seven for continuo reasons. At the string length you are thinking about, you could tune it in D, as in the small French theorbe de pieces. Rob www.rmguitar.info -Original Message- From: T. Diehl-Peshkur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 08 December 2007 15:24 To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Theorbo I had a request to all the performers/teachers among you here. Any help would be appreciated. I am on a waiting list for a theorbo to used only for solo music, almost exclusively late (like de Visee) although it might occasionally be used to play
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Narvey article online/Dm continuo in Italy
Hi Benjamin. Good to see you contributing to this discussion. I was interested in your comments in your article regarding Klaus Jackobsen's thought that the very large Schelle theorbo might have had the first two strings displaced because of its long string length. Is this the tuning you use on your copy of the Schelle? It seems a reasonable supposition to me, considering that in Dm tuning, there is no point in lowering a string by an octave (as with the Italian model) because that pitch is already an open string. And do you use single or double strings? Rob www.rmguitar.info -Original Message- From: Benjamin Narvey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 26 November 2007 10:59 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Narvey article online/Dm continuo in Italy Hi Rob, Regarding the point of d-minor continuo in Italy, there is in fact other documentation of its use apart from that of Weiss. There is a source *by an Italian*, the theorist and composer Pier Francesco Valentini (1586-1654), who discusses at some length d-minor continuo playing in his *Il leuto anatomizzato ... nelle quale si dimostrano 12 diversi ordini di sonare et intervolare trasportato nel leuto,* a very early source about d-minor continuo written in 1642, only a few years after the tuning came out in France itself. I didn't know about this source until after my article went to print, and this could have added a lot of juicy nuance. This source, written in Italian by an Italian for Italians, presumably attests to a school of d-minor playing there. Also, if this was already happening in 1642, how had this grown by Weiss's time a century later? This subject needs further exploration Does anyone on this list know anything more about this? BN On the other hand, I have not managed to talk myself into definit ely choosing the German tuning on my 86cms theorbo, but I have the possibility of experimenting. And while it is OK to use an Italian instrument for German baroque music (it was definitely used, as Tim Burris has pointed out), it is less plausible using a German instrument on anything other than German music. Benjamin argues that Weiss's presence in Italy indicates that at least one player was using dm tuning, however it is not certain that Weiss had developed his 'sans chanterelle' tuning whilst there. If not, what was Weiss playing when sitting in with Scarlatti's orchestral band? Had the swan-necked so-called theorbo come into existence during Weiss's Italian trip, 1710-14? Seems a bit early to me. I'm sure someone reading this will know when swans flew in to the scene? So, if Weiss still just had his lute, was he playing continuo at all, and if he was, did he use an Italian-tuned instrument? And did the problems he encountered lead to his development of the German Continuo Theorbo when he got back to Germany? Or did he create it when in Rome? So, there are a lot of questions, and, as I say, I have not yet convinced myself one way or another. But one thought keeps bugging me: Weiss was by far the greatest composer for the baroque lute, and we know that he spent a lot of his time as a continuo player. We also know the tuning he used. Baron states that it is the common tuning of theorboes in Germany. So how many of us are actually doing it? Probably fewer than half a dozen... Almost like playing Dowland on guitars... www.rmguitar.info To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Benjamin Narvey Luthiste: http://www.luthiste.com --
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Narvey article online/Dm continuo in Italy
In short, no need to put down an octave. Which is the whole crux of the matter - down an octave in baroque tuning would just be duplicating the fourth course. So the chanterelle had to come off. Benjamin - I probably misread Klaus's comments. I'm sure he made an amazing instrument, and kudos to you for delving into this whole area. It looks like my forthcoming 86cms theorbo will be the perfect length for trying both tunings. I'll try to work out exactly how many strings I could re-use in both tunings. Rob www.rmguitar.info _ From: Martyn Hodgson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 26 November 2007 15:24 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Narvey article online/Dm continuo in Italy The large Schelle theorbo is not, in fact that large in terms of string length (NB original bridge position is higher than at present and gives an original string length of only 85/86cm). Because it has a neck for 8 frets (rather than the 9 or 10 some people go for these days) it does, however, still have a big body as found on many large continuo theorboes and in iconography. The key issue is at what pitch the instrument would have played. Fortunately, we don't need to go into possible Dresden pitches (Kammerton - high or low, chor ton, low french ton, etc) since we can simply compare the maximum string stress (ie breaking stress) of the contemporary Dm lute. So if we take a common 18thC Dm lute of string length 72cm with top course at f', this very conveniently gives the same string stress as an 86cm instrument with top course at d'. In short, no need to put down an octave. Possibly this would involved slightly more frequent breakages than would be experienced on a normal tuned large continuo theorbo in A (say, string length 94cm, top course at b) but only by just over a semitone's worth (ie the same string stress as d' at 86 equates to a pitch of c# at 96). MH Rob [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Benjamin. Good to see you contributing to this discussion. I was interested in your comments in your article regarding Klaus Jackobsen's thought that the very large Schelle theorbo might have had the first two strings displaced because of its long string length. Is this the tuning you use on your copy of the Schelle? It seems a reasonable supposition to me, considering that in Dm tuning, there is no point in lowering a string by an octave (as with the Italian model) because that pitch is already an open string. And do you use single or double strings? Rob www.rmguitar.info -Original Message- From: Benjamin Narvey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 26 November 2007 10:59 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Narvey article online/Dm continuo in Italy Hi Rob, Regarding the point of d-minor continuo in Italy, there is in fact other documentation of its use apart from that of Weiss. There is a source *by an Italian*, the theorist and composer Pier Francesco Valentini (1586-1654), who discusses at some length d-minor continuo playing in his *Il leuto anatomizzato ... nelle quale si dimostrano 12 diversi ordini di sonare et intervolare trasportato nel leuto,* a very early source about d-minor continuo written in 1642, only a few years after the tuning came out in France itself. I didn't know about this source until after my article went to print, and this could have added a lot of juicy nuance. This source, written in Italian by an Italian for Italians, presumably attests to a school of d-minor playing there. Also, if this was already happening in 1642, how had this grown by Weiss's time a century later? This subject needs further exploration Does anyone on this list know anything more about this? BN On the other hand, I have not managed to talk myself into definit ely choosing the German tuning on my 86cms theorbo, but I have the possibility of experimenting. And while it is OK to use an Italian instrument for German baroque music (it was definitely used, as Tim Burris has pointed out), it is less plausible using a German instrument on anything other than German music. Benjamin argues that Weiss's presence in Italy indicates that at least one player was using dm tuning, however it is not certain that Weiss had developed his 'sans chanterelle' tuning whilst there. If not, what was Weiss playing when sitting in with Scarlatti's orchestral band? Had the swan-necked so-called theorbo come into existence during Weiss's Italian trip, 1710-14? Seems a bit early to me. I'm sure someone reading this will know when swans flew in to the scene? So, if Weiss still just had his lute, was he playing continuo at all, and if he was, did he use an Italian-tuned instrument? And did the problems he encountered lead to his development of the German Continuo Theorbo when he got back to Germany? Or did he create it when in Rome? So, there are a lot of questions
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Dm continuo - Narvey article online
Thanks Jurek. It seems that a few players use dm tuning for continuo. I once saw Imamura accompanying singers on a 13c lute. It sounded great. But so far I haven't seen anyone perform in dm without the chanterelle, as mentioned by Baron. Apart from Tim Burris and now Benjamin Narvey, who else does? Rob www.rmguitar.info -Original Message- From: Jerzy Zak [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 25 November 2007 00:58 To: baroque Lutelist Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Dm continuo - Narvey article online Thanks to Benjamin for such an interesting article. Hopefully it will stimulate discussion here. Does anyone play continuo on baroque lute? If it's not strictly Italian (and sometimes even then) I play continuo on d-m more often then on any other lute. For German music seems the most obvious, for an ''archlute music'' the sound efect is almost the same -- just personal choice (and joy). Jurek ___ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Dm continuo - Narvey article online
From the deep and faded, dusty vaults of my memory, I seem to recall reading that Kuhnau bought two Gallichon's for St Thomas's in Leipzig, which were still there when Bach took the post. Is that right, or am I drifting helplessly towards senility? Interesting point about the similarity of tuning, Martin. I never thought of that. Rob www.rmguitar.info _ From: Martyn Hodgson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 25 November 2007 16:49 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'baroque Lutelist' Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Dm continuo - Narvey article online Note that the top three courses of the D tuned Gallichon/Mandora are the same as this 'german' theorbo in Dm. Coincidence? - maybe, since the large A tuned Gallichon (string length c 95cm) seems to have been the usual professional continuo instrument of this family with the smaller instruments (say mid 60s - mid 70s) being amateur instruments. Advantage of the G/M is, of course, a fully chromatic stopped (ie no over-ringing) bass from D (or A, for the large instrument). Kuhnau thought they were ideal, especially for ensuring the bowed basses entered on the beat. MH Rob [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Jurek. It seems that a few players use dm tuning for continuo. I once saw Imamura accompanying singers on a 13c lute. It sounded great. But so far I haven't seen anyone perform in dm without the chanterelle, as mentioned by Baron. Apart from Tim Burris and now Benjamin Narvey, who else does? Rob www.rmguitar.info -Original Message- From: Jerzy Zak [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 25 November 2007 00:58 To: baroque Lutelist Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Dm continuo - Narvey article online Thanks to Benjamin for such an interesting article. Hopefully it will stimulate discussion here. Does anyone play continuo on baroque lute? If it's not strictly Italian (and sometimes even then) I play continuo on d-m more often then on any other lute. For German music seems the most obvious, for an ''archlute music'' the sound efect is almost the same -- just personal choice (and joy). Jurek ___ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html _ Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Try http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTEydmViNG02BF9TAzIxMTQ3MTcxOTAEc2VjA 21haWwEc2xrA3RhZ2xpbmU it now. --
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Dm continuo - Narvey article online
Great to see it has stimulated discussion! :-) Rob www.rmguitar.info -Original Message- From: Are Vidar Boye Hansen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 24 November 2007 16:36 To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Dm continuo - Narvey article online Thanks to Benjamin for such an interesting article. Hopefully it will stimulate discussion here. Does anyone play continuo on baroque lute? Yepp. Me too! Are To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: new 11c lute - pics
Found out the string length (69) and model 354. Martin Shepherd wrote this in an email to me, and I'm sure he won't mind me sharing the info: I have very little information on the original instrument because it (and its friend) are hidden away in a Bohemian castle instead of in the main museum in Prague. When I went there about three years ago I was informed that the musical instrument collection was in storage, presumably awaiting transfer to the castle. If I remember correctly the meagre information I have been able to glean, in its present state it is a 13c lute with a string length of 67.3cm. (I have a drawing of the body, but no data on the neck and pegbox). When I made your lute I discovered that the string length had to be longer to get the normal proportions of an 11c lute, that is where the neck/body join is close to where the tenth fret would be, allowing the ninth fret to be tied without too much difficulty (the angle of the neck/body joint is such that if the fret comes too close to the body it has to be tied on at a crazy angle and anchored by notches in the edge of the fingerboard). Maler originals were often used in the 17th century for 11c instruments. The shape and sound were very much in fashion. Yet there are very few luthiers who use Malers today, preferring instead the beautiful Warwick Frei. We did consider the Frei, but settled on the Maler as a sort of experiment. There will no veneer and only nine ribs. For the French repertoire, volume is of less interest to me than resonance. As ever, one can only wait and see what the result will be. Very much looking forward to it. Rob www.rmguitar.info -Original Message- From: Edward Martin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 21 November 2007 14:02 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'BAROQUE-LUTE' Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: new 11c lute - pics Rob, You will absolutely love 11 course music, on an 11 course lute. It is very satisfying. ed To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Playing CG duet on lute?
Good luck, Jim. I've learned to read in about six or seven tunings, not all equally well, I'll readily admit, but I have a kind of method (if that is what the word 'heuristic' means?!). 1. Learn some basic major scale patterns 2. Play those scales in tenths (this is a really useful exercise) 3. Work out all the basic major and minor chords 4. Now you know where all the notes are, start reading the single-note pieces from Bach's violin sonatas and partitas, such as the 'doubles' from the Bm partita, analyzing the basic chords as you go 5. Start learning figured bass, simple stuff, just bass notes and a few tenths here and there. Soon it will all begin to fall into place. Well, that's the way I've always done it. Works, more or less, for me. Rob www.rmguitar.info -Original Message- From: Jim Abraham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 06 November 2007 19:42 To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Playing CG duet on lute? Hi all, I've been talking to Ray Brohinsky about playing duets with recorder. I've been playing them on CG, but now that I have a (baroque) lute, I'd like to spend my time there. Is there a heuristic for playing baroque lute from standard notation without transcribing? Ray had some ideas, but does anyone else? Regards, Jim -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Sources of music
I agree with David - Stefan's book is very good. I assume, Thomas, that you mean 11c. If you have a 13c, try Satoh's tutor (Tree Editions). Rob MacKillop www.rmguitar.info -Original Message- From: David Van Edwards [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 12 August 2007 23:39 To: Thomas Tallant Cc: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Sources of music Dear Thomas, You might try The Baroque Lute Companion by Stefan Lundgren 252 lute pieces chosen from twelve unpublished manuscripts. - 24 studies and twelve chorale variations composed by Stefan Lundgren. - Lute instruction with photos and exercises. - Reading and playing from historical sources. - Text: English and German. The pieces in this anthology are organized in twelve chapters and are based on the twelve most common keys for the lute music of this period. Every chapter is ordered in three levels graded, easy, medium and difficult. Price: =A4 65. Stefan also publishes for baroque lute: Lautenbuchlein II Lautenbuchlein IV J.S. Bach: complete lute works S.L. Weiss: suite in c-dur J.S. Bach: 15 two-part inventions You can see his complete list on his website: http://www.luteonline.de/lundgren-edition/tutors.htm Best wishes, David At 15:29 -0700 12/8/07, Thomas Tallant wrote: Could someone point me to sources of easy to intermediate music for Baroque lute? I have the Tree Edition collection edited by Anthony Bailes, and that seems to be a good place to start, but I would like to study other collections or sources of music of similar difficulty. I know this question has probably been asked before, but I'm new to the list. Thanks for any help Thomas Tallant -- The Smokehouse, 6 Whitwell Road, Norwich, NR1 4HB England. Telephone: + 44 (0)1603 629899 Website: http://www.vanedwards.co.uk -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: portrait of Robert de Visee???
Try this. Any bigger and it would be too pixilated. http://www.rmguitar.info/images/French/HenrietteFanClose.jpg Rob www.rmguitar.info -Original Message- From: David Van Edwards [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 12 August 2007 21:29 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: portrait of Robert de Visee??? Dear Rob, How very interesting! It looks as if the extension is very kinked in its length, even more than the sort of offset in the Harz archlute you know well. The higher resolution picture promised in the link turned out to be identical to the initial picture, do you have a higher res pic? But a wonderful relaxed scene as you say. Gives a real insight into the life at least one layer behind the public face of Versailles. Best wishes, David -- The Smokehouse, 6 Whitwell Road, Norwich, NR1 4HB England. Telephone: + 44 (0)1603 629899 Website: http://www.vanedwards.co.uk To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Was Cabinet der Lauten - now French-German transition
Thanks to those who gave me some info on Lesage. It has made me aware of how little I know of the period of transition between French 11c and German 11c styles. Much of the early German 11c music seems very French, and I'm wondering where the break was - when did German composers start writing 11c German music? What were the characteristics of early German baroque lute? Has anyone written a history of this early period? There seem to be many manuscripts and a few publications (Reusner, I am familiar with), and many composers. Did the transition start with Germans living in Paris, or Frenchman living in Germany, or both? Lots of questions! Has anyone compiled a timeline of manuscripts/publications? Rob MacKillop www.rmguitar.info To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Cabinet der Lauten
Can anyone give me info on Philipp Franz Lesage de Richee, and also who composed what in his collection, `The Cabinet der Lauten'? Much appreciated. Cheers, Rob MacKillop www.rmguitar.info -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute instructional materials?
I shan't get tired recommending Fundamenta der Lauten Musique for continuo playing on 11c lute (available from the German Lute Society, www.lautengesellschaft.de ). Hi Mathias, I would like to buy this, but I am sorry to say I cannot understand German, so I don't know how to order it. Can you help? Rob MacKillop To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Bach's cello suites - analysis
I bought this earlier today. So far, I've never been so impressed by an analysis. Highly recommended. http://www.amazon.com/Bachs-Cello-Suites-Analyses-Explorations/dp/0253218969 Rob MacKillop www.rmguitar.info -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: microphones
thanks I am going to record on the computer (Windows). will the ECM MS907 plug directly into the computer or do I need to use an adaptor like the m-audio (if that is what it is in fact..)? The Edirol is an interesting idea... Rob From: Roman Turovsky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sun 2/4/2007 9:08 AM To: Rob Parisien; baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] microphones Sony ECM-MS907 will do the job. RT From: Rob Parisien [EMAIL PROTECTED] Does anyone have advise on the best type of microphone for home recording? I have been told that listening to recordings of one's playing is a great way to improve. Looking on-line there is a bewildering array of options... and lots of confusing recommendations... Rob Parisien [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: LesBarricadesMysterieuses...
Dear Baroque Lute list members: In response to the discussion on the use of the ring finger... I have made a basic transcription of Couperin's Les Brricades Myterieuses, transposed to C Maj from B flat major (I believe the original is in B flat maj.) How would people play the following transcription?? For me it is much easier with the use of the ring finger. Perhaps it would be better to use just the thumb, index, and long? I would be interested in hearing anyone's opinion. Thanks to Roman Turovsky for graciously converting the file into PDF. Rob Parisien http://fileplace.co.nr/download.php?file=867474 http://fileplace.co.nr/download.php?file=867474 -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Frei body renaissance lute
Hi All, I don't know if there is actually anyone on this list that is interestred but I'll fire a question into the ether and hope for a response. I am currently building an 8 course lute for a customer on a Frei body. I do not build many renaissance lutes and specialize in baroque instruments but took this commission anyway. He specified the Frei body but also specified a 62cm mensur. Now, the Frei is a long body, 52cm from block end to end cap, and the narrower neck/body juncture of the 8 course makes it even longer. The problem is, of course, that the body will not accommodate anything shorter than about 66cm without the neck being ridiculously short. I talked him into 65cm but renaissance players, and I'm not one, advise that anything longer than 62 is untenable for the solo repertoire. Any ideas? I'm cutting the rose now, the neck blank is on, and will have the soundboard glued on in a couple of days. I can't lengthen the neck by repositioning the bridge because, well, the bridge goes where it needs to go acoustically. He's probably going to wind up with a fingerboard about 28cm long which puts 4 frets on the soundboard. Is there precedent? I try to accommodate requests from clients but this neck sure looks short. Mind you, I usually build 70cm+ on the Frei for baroque lutes. Best, Rob Dorsey http://robdorsey.com/ http://RobDorsey.com -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Venezia
Ah Venice, Of all the cities of the world to which I have been exposed, it is the most lovely. The Venetians are the most handsome people in Europe, raven haired, blue eyed and with noble long bridged noses, and are also remarkably friendly - even to Americans - and easy going. Crime seemed to be almost non-existent and I swear that you could leave you wallet on the curb while having dinner and retrieve it unmolested after the coffee. Seek out the music and instruments, but don't fail to spend some time lazily wandering the streets and canals or sipping a coffee in the Piazza San Marco. In this world of rough ugliness and McFastFood, it remains a wonderful, genteel and elegant city. Regards, Rob Dorsey http://RobDorsey.com -Original Message- From: Manolo Laguillo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 8:13 AM To: LUTELIST; LUTE BAROQUE; LUTE VIHUELA Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Venezia Hi, In one month I will stay for 3 days in Venice (Italy). Not so much time, considering what a city it is, so I want to ask you about those things (besides the usual ones) that somebody belonging to this lutelist should unavoidably see/hear/smell/taste/sense. Thank you in advance for your guide! Saludos from Barcelona, Manolo Laguillo -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: d minor theorbo tuning
Henner and All, While this may not exactly answer your query, I have used my 76/120 theorbo in continuo playing and it is in normal Dm tuning. Due to the manageable string length of 76cm on the fingerboard re-entrant tuning was not required or desired. The instrument has double course for the first 6 and single strung basses thereafter. The 7th course is on the board and may be fingered but is a single string. Not being an ace at continuo, I've have muddled through by taking the score and tabbing out a suitable part for the Theorbo. This is cheating I know, but in my case, the better of all choices if the music was to be realized. As an adjunct, keeping the theorbo in Dm tuning makes for a spectacular instrument upon which to play solo music as well. Regards, Rob Dorsey http://RobDorsey.com -Original Message- From: Dr. Henner Kahlert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 9:25 AM To: Baroquelute net Cc: Lutenet Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] d minor theorbo tuning Dear all, we know that German lutenists in the 18th century like Weiss an Baron played continuo on their theorbos in d-minor tuning too (cf. Ernst Gottlieb Baron, Historisch-Theoretisch und Practische Untersuchung des Instruments der Lauten, Nürnberg 1727 p. 131, who also wrote that their theorbos had double courses on the fingerboard, not with the basses). When using really big theorbos with a greater string length, e.g. 76 cm and more, not theorboed baroque lutes, I think they had to use a re-entrant tunig with at least the first course tunend in a lower octave. What do we know about the tuning of d-minor theorbos, which sources do exist? Henner -- Dr. Henner Kahlert In der Tasch 2a D 76227 Karlsruhe (Durlach) Tel. 0721-403353 Büro: Tel. 0721-23084 Fax 0721-20978 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] New to the List
Hi All, My name is Rob Dorsey and I am a long time amateur instrument maker who is now retired from the day job and building full time. I play baroque lute and so my interest is mostly there although I have built renaissance lutes, an early mandolin (lute bodied mandola) a couple of vihuelas and a gamba or two. I had the great fortune of knowing Robert Lundberg and studying lute making with him for 5 years, off and on, when I lived in Portland during the eighties. Bob was a good friend and the most generous of teachers, never making the lesson seem like one but as if, rather, we were just working together on a project. I came away from that experience with some great tools, techniques that I've seen no reason to change so far, and an appreciation for Bob's organized work style. Bob was the master at that. His hands never moved unless something wonderful was about to happen. Since then I've built lutes for myself and done some repair for friends, mostly on guitars which, compared to lutes, is, with all due respect, more like furniture restoration. I have two lutes Bob built for me, a 13 crs Dieffopruchar style at 76cm and a 140/76cm Edlinger style theorbo. This theorbo is perhaps one of Bob's most spectacular instruments and we collaborated on the design. It is in ebony with ivory spacers, inlays and ivory pegs, all pre-moratorium and CITES legal stuff. I also have an 11 crs baroque lute, a small lute bodied mandola, a small Medici arche-lute and a 120/71cm Hoffmann extension pegbox lute all from my bench. Projects in work are a 13 crs, Edlinger bodied lute at 74cm and a 14crs experimental lute on a Dieffopruchar/Edlinger shell, 65cm on fingerboard and an extension for the 7-14th courses. It'll be braced and hard fretted to accept single strings. It's meant for guitar players who want to play the vast corpus of Dm tuning tab without fully transitioning to baroque lute, something to which they seem to have an almost pathological aversion. Hope this doesn't smack of heresy and provoke cries of somebody get a rope but it looks like a worthwhile endeavour. If it works I'll try to sell some. Right now I'm looking for lute pegs. If I can't find a reasonable source (the ones I found on the web were in England and were about 6 bucks each, over there) I'll have to tool up to do them myself. I had a big collection of pegs I came away from Bob's shop with (I spent many hours at his little lathe making them) but I've used them up. If anyone has a link or address for reasonable pegs I would appreciate some direction. Best Regards, Rob Dorsey Florence, KY USA -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Goldberg
I'm not sure that dynamics is such a problem. Ever played the harpsichord (the instrument the Goldbergs were written for)? As for phrasing...Adam says that this video is just a snapshot of work in progress. He is working on the entire theme and variations. He will learn a lot about Bach along the way, as we all do, and Bach challenges us in ways we could never predict. I say good luck to Adam, and I hope to hear and see his interpretation in a couple of years time. I'm sure Bach would be fascinated... Rob -Original Message- From: Gary Digman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 09 September 2005 22:54 To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Goldberg Impressive technique, but little attempt at phrasing and dynamics, etc. I'm not a fan of the machine gun approach to Bach. Gave the impression of trying to get it over with as quickly as possible. That being said, incredible technique. Gary Digman - Original Message - From: Rob MacKillop To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Goldberg Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 15:46:22 +0100 For those of you who think Bach doesn't work on a lute, maybe this will be your thing: http://www.zippyvideos.com/5681785161088116/adam_fulara-goldberg_no_1/ Rob To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- ___ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm --
