RE: HTML In Application.cfm
Hi, all. I've been just an observer on this very interesting thread, with little to contribute in favor of either idea. However, in reading through the 73 (!) posts I had not yet seen when I came in today, something striking occurred to me. I saw the two camps as "Keep display code separate from application code (i.e., no HTML in Application.cfm)" and "Mix as necessary". I understand very well the instinct of the latter camp in asking questions like, "Yeah, okay, but *why not* mix them?" because I have remnants of that instinct myself: from about six weeks ago before I took a Java programming course that was heavy on straight OOP theory as well as the Java specifics themselves. After realizing this, I saw that just about every e-mail I read came out like this: If is was from the "mix as necessary" camp, I felt my instincts from six weeks ago kick in. If it was from the "keep display code separate from application code" camp, I felt my new feelings kick in. Why do I bother writing this? Well, I think it is interesting to note that what really changed my mind on this was immersion in a fully OO environment. I would guess that those of us (myself very much included) who have treated ColdFusion as a purely procedural language are more likely to "mix as necessary". But once you've tasted OO, doing such starts to turn the stomach. Because of some silly ups and downs, I may never directly use the Java training that I got, but even if I never do, I suspect that it will make me a much better ColdFusion developer. For those of you who--like me a few weeks ago--have not checked out OO, I strongly recommend you do some reading. There is a stunningly good (I say stunningly good because it is completely free) ground-up introduction to programming that uses Java as its language and focuses on OO available at: http://math.hws.edu/javanotes/ Just the ramblings of an observer. Matthieu ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228284 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
Lol, yea she gave up on that site, I was trying to teach her some basic web design, but she lost interest. Every rose was always my song :-) -Original Message- From: dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 January 2006 02:38 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: HTML In Application.cfm was looking at your pix (btw~ your wifes site has a nice dsn cant be found error) and I just starting sing "every rose has it's thorn." ~Dave the disruptor~ google will pay you money to getting rid of ie :) http://explorerdestroyer.com/ http://www.killbillsbrowser.com/ From: "Snake" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 1:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: HTML In Application.cfm I'm afraid you have lost me. Aqua-net ? -Original Message- From: dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 01 January 2006 17:30 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: HTML In Application.cfm nope but you are more than welcome to come over and give it a try ;) Nice hair btw~ haha damn that was worse then what I had back in the day, should change your motto from snakepit to aqua-net pit... haha ~Dave the disruptor~ google will pay you money to getting rid of ie :) http://explorerdestroyer.com/ http://www.killbillsbrowser.com/ From: "Snake" Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 7:44 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: HTML In Application.cfm Understatement. Hasn't anyone come round your house and kicked your ass yet :-) ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228122 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
was looking at your pix (btw~ your wifes site has a nice dsn cant be found error) and I just starting sing "every rose has it's thorn." ~Dave the disruptor~ google will pay you money to getting rid of ie :) http://explorerdestroyer.com/ http://www.killbillsbrowser.com/ From: "Snake" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 1:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: HTML In Application.cfm I'm afraid you have lost me. Aqua-net ? -Original Message- From: dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 01 January 2006 17:30 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: HTML In Application.cfm nope but you are more than welcome to come over and give it a try ;) Nice hair btw~ haha damn that was worse then what I had back in the day, should change your motto from snakepit to aqua-net pit... haha ~Dave the disruptor~ google will pay you money to getting rid of ie :) http://explorerdestroyer.com/ http://www.killbillsbrowser.com/ From: "Snake" Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 7:44 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: HTML In Application.cfm Understatement. Hasn't anyone come round your house and kicked your ass yet :-) ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228119 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
I'm afraid you have lost me. Aqua-net ? -Original Message- From: dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 01 January 2006 17:30 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: HTML In Application.cfm nope but you are more than welcome to come over and give it a try ;) Nice hair btw~ haha damn that was worse then what I had back in the day, should change your motto from snakepit to aqua-net pit... haha ~Dave the disruptor~ google will pay you money to getting rid of ie :) http://explorerdestroyer.com/ http://www.killbillsbrowser.com/ From: "Snake" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 7:44 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: HTML In Application.cfm Understatement. Hasn't anyone come round your house and kicked your ass yet :-) ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228115 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
>>Claude's question was "what is the value of separating presentation logic from application logic?" Exact, however it was still under the subject of separating presentation logic from application logic IN THE APPLICATION.CFM file, which I'm still not convinced about. -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228114 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
>>the entire ITIL suite of best practices is built up from the experience of professionals who have seen what goes wrong when alternative practices are followed. All this is very nice in theory, but it does not prevent anyone from making the mistake of applying the conclusions of those professionals to situations that do not qualify and are different from the one the professionals got their experience with. -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228112 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
nope but you are more than welcome to come over and give it a try ;) Nice hair btw~ haha damn that was worse then what I had back in the day, should change your motto from snakepit to aqua-net pit... haha ~Dave the disruptor~ google will pay you money to getting rid of ie :) http://explorerdestroyer.com/ http://www.killbillsbrowser.com/ From: "Snake" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 7:44 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: HTML In Application.cfm Understatement. Hasn't anyone come round your house and kicked your ass yet :-) ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228110 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
Understatement. Hasn't anyone come round your house and kicked your ass yet :-) -Original Message- From: dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 01 January 2006 01:46 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: HTML In Application.cfm lol sh***tt hey im ok and fun, just short tempered lol its will. between his shittin himself and having to stop at every rest stop (since he has a "thing" for those) I sure do feel for bobby! ~Dave the disruptor~ google will pay you money to getting rid of ie :) http://explorerdestroyer.com/ http://www.killbillsbrowser.com/ From: "Snake" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 8:35 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: HTML In Application.cfm Imagine a road trip with Will and Dave -Original Message- From: Bobby Hartsfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 31 December 2005 20:10 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: HTML In Application.cfm Separating anything wasn't the question of this topic... it's how to include something in 2400 pages easily (by the time you started posting anyway)... and in this case it would be done easily with Application.cfm (you've agreed) but separating milk from eggs or planting trees or spooning with your doctor has nothing to do with anything CF related which... btw.. is the language in question... not English. You want to say something without actually saying it? Use pseudo code, examples and experiences. > I don't think any of the responses to the original poster said that > doing this would break anything I don't recall saying otherwise... but the only reason I can think of for absolutley excluding a possible solution is that it would 'break' something... not because it might put an html tag in the 'business logic' of your HTML application. I was merely pointing out that it would not break it. > Uh, you know, I thought Silent Bob was ... silent? Just a side note but... Kevin Smith (Silent Bob) talks in every movie he's ever been in > It is NOT all preferences and habits. Or at least, it shouldn't be. Why shouldn't it be? Because it's not your preference? > there's a body of knowledge that's been built up by the experiences > and study of others. Who? Trees, acorns, ill-equipped doctors and well organized refridgerators? > In the case of the original poster, I'd probably do the same thing as > he's > doing. But if I were building the application from scratch, I probably > wouldn't. He probably wouldn't either after this little 2400 page adventure. I guess the best 'saying' for Tim and his 2400 pages in this case would be... "You can't polish a turd" so just use your Application.cfm to fix your problem. Now you know that in the future you'll want to be a little more mindful of an applications growth and scalability no matter how small you THINK its going to 'stay' because things just don't always work out the way we expect them to. Now you have your own experience and "study" to base your decisions on and don't have to rely on spooning your dentist. > If you don't think that's a worthy topic of discussion You have to wait for me to say it before you are allowed to insinuate that I said or thought it. ;-) But he's seen the good and bad side of both and will make his choice as to the best solution for him and his next application... and THAT... is a preference no matter where you let your doctor stick his eating utensils. Of course, I may just be a little bitter since I started reading a 60 post strong thread that started out OK, got weak, then got better and then turned to shit... and just decided I wanted to spruce up the ending a little... maaayb And mybe im just bitter because I have to go on a road trip with Will (Who, incidentally, has went through the spoon procedure with his doctor and now has huge gas problems...) ;-) .:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. Bobby Hartsfield http://acoderslife.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228109 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
Great minds think alike Or perhaps were both just short on patience with clients. :-) But I have told a few to bugger off then, and they have come crawling back. Happy new year to u too. -Original Message- From: Jennifer Gavin-Wear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 01 January 2006 11:49 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: HTML In Application.cfm Oh my, I'm going to agree with Russ ;)! Happy new year Russ :-) -Original Message- From: Snake [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 01 January 2006 01:30 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: HTML In Application.cfm To which you say. OK go with x, and then when your not happy with the work, come and pay me to do it properly. -Original Message- From: Jennifer Gavin-Wear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 31 December 2005 17:06 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: HTML In Application.cfm lol Ade .. which is often followed by "and we've been quoted half that price by x" . ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228108 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
Oh my, I'm going to agree with Russ ;)! Happy new year Russ :-) -Original Message- From: Snake [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 01 January 2006 01:30 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: HTML In Application.cfm To which you say. OK go with x, and then when your not happy with the work, come and pay me to do it properly. -Original Message- From: Jennifer Gavin-Wear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 31 December 2005 17:06 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: HTML In Application.cfm lol Ade .. which is often followed by "and we've been quoted half that price by x" . ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228106 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
I don't suppose dreamweaver templates would work? They do for me, but I'm not working with 2400 pages! Jenny -Original Message- From: Bobby Hartsfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 31 December 2005 20:10 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: HTML In Application.cfm Separating anything wasn't the question of this topic... it's how to include something in 2400 pages easily ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228105 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
Sake to me. Straight from the bottle? You're a good man. On 12/31/05, Matt Robertson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 12/31/05, Michael Clayton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Later on, we can sit at the pub with our mates and talk about how we > > obliterated our opponent in an online discussion group about proper > coding > > practices in a web-based programming language. Our collective glory > will > > blind the masses. > > They won't be blinded. They'll be asleep. Lulled into a comatose > state by the gentle susurrations of dim pedantic mutterings versus > shrill freewheeling muse. > > Happy freakin' new year. Where is that sake bottle I put down? > > -- > --mattRobertson-- > Janitor, MSB Web Systems > mysecretbase.com > > ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228102 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
On 12/31/05, Michael Clayton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Later on, we can sit at the pub with our mates and talk about how we > obliterated our opponent in an online discussion group about proper coding > practices in a web-based programming language. Our collective glory will > blind the masses. They won't be blinded. They'll be asleep. Lulled into a comatose state by the gentle susurrations of dim pedantic mutterings versus shrill freewheeling muse. Happy freakin' new year. Where is that sake bottle I put down? -- --mattRobertson-- Janitor, MSB Web Systems mysecretbase.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228101 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
On 12/31/05, Snake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > OK go with x, and then when your not happy with the work, come and pay me to > do it properly. My job title is "Janitor" for precisely this reason. Cleaning up big systems that started out as being made by creative souls who skipped barefoot thru the code base, listening to their hearts, loving freely and ignoring the grumpy old establishment fuds... They showed their clients a thing or two... and got fired. I replaced them. :-| -- --mattRobertson-- Janitor, MSB Web Systems mysecretbase.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228100 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
Agreed - that's the best post this year (of course it's 2006 now in Oz, so there aren't that many posts with which to compare :-) On 1/1/06, Michael Clayton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm afraid this discussion has veered off-course and into the land of > personal bickering. I propose that each of us drop the discussion and > consider ourselves the victor. > > Later on, we can sit at the pub with our mates and talk about how we > obliterated our opponent in an online discussion group about proper coding > practices in a web-based programming language. Our collective glory will > blind the masses. -- CFAJAX docs and other useful articles: http://jr-holmes.coldfusionjournal.com/ ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228098 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
I'm afraid this discussion has veered off-course and into the land of personal bickering. I propose that each of us drop the discussion and consider ourselves the victor. Later on, we can sit at the pub with our mates and talk about how we obliterated our opponent in an online discussion group about proper coding practices in a web-based programming language. Our collective glory will blind the masses. -- Michael Clayton www.twilighted.com ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228097 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
Unintelligible? Why? Because I didn't pussy foot around and say everything by saying nothing? Good on ya... Maybe you should reread the thread and point out the spot where I said... "Hey Dave... you're a dumbass and your preferences are stupid... come down of your metaphoric pedestal and argue with me about it." And we'll start over there... but don't think for a second that all your acorn, brick and doctor analogies made any of your posts more 'intelligible' than anyone else's. Happy new year to you too ;-) ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. Bobby Hartsfield http://acoderslife.com -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 9:28 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: HTML In Application.cfm > At any rate... I "prefer" to do so. > > ... > But im sure none of those experiences concluded that putting html > or includes in an Application.cfm "doesn't work" In that case, you should read the thread so you can understand what we were actually discussing, rather than assuming we were discussing the original poster's question. > Output #LiteralDave# somwhere to see what it says. Of course > I didn't have time to write the RandomSimilie component... so > I hope you can make it all out ok. ;-) No, your response is pretty unintelligible. Happy new year anyway, though. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228096 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
> At any rate... I "prefer" to do so. > > ... > But im sure none of those experiences concluded that putting html > or includes in an Application.cfm "doesn't work" In that case, you should read the thread so you can understand what we were actually discussing, rather than assuming we were discussing the original poster's question. > Output #LiteralDave# somwhere to see what it says. Of course > I didn't have time to write the RandomSimilie component... so > I hope you can make it all out ok. ;-) No, your response is pretty unintelligible. Happy new year anyway, though. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228095 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
> but I'd prefer it if you didn't complain to me about it. Isn't that usually the "best practice" when you find you don't like something? Open it up for discussion/debate/argument/barrage of similes? At any rate... I "prefer" to do so. > Thank you very much for your helpful advice on how to write. > However, I notice that you didn't write your answer in CF, but English. Yes, in plain english minus an assload of similes and metaphors... I'll keep you in mind next time. > Oh, I don't know, perhaps because a lot of people - probably quite a bit > smarter than the both of us - have gained valuable and useful experience > about what works and what doesn't? Speak for yourself. Im obviously rather full of myself and happen to believe no one is smarter lol j/k But im sure none of those experiences concluded that putting html or includes in an Application.cfm "doesn't work" > No, see, that's how conditional logic works No that's how deduction and reasoning MIGHT have worked if you used it correctly but most definitely NOT conditional logic > Perhaps less bitterness, and more attention to detail, will help the next > time you want to spruce something up. No... it seems to have worked just fine ;-) Output #LiteralDave# somwhere to see what it says. Of course I didn't have time to write the RandomSimilie component... so I hope you can make it all out ok. ;-) ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. Bobby Hartsfield http://acoderslife.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228094 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
lol sh***tt hey im ok and fun, just short tempered lol its will. between his shittin himself and having to stop at every rest stop (since he has a "thing" for those) I sure do feel for bobby! ~Dave the disruptor~ google will pay you money to getting rid of ie :) http://explorerdestroyer.com/ http://www.killbillsbrowser.com/ From: "Snake" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 8:35 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: HTML In Application.cfm Imagine a road trip with Will and Dave -Original Message- From: Bobby Hartsfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 31 December 2005 20:10 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: HTML In Application.cfm Separating anything wasn't the question of this topic... it's how to include something in 2400 pages easily (by the time you started posting anyway)... and in this case it would be done easily with Application.cfm (you've agreed) but separating milk from eggs or planting trees or spooning with your doctor has nothing to do with anything CF related which... btw.. is the language in question... not English. You want to say something without actually saying it? Use pseudo code, examples and experiences. > I don't think any of the responses to the original poster said that > doing this would break anything I don't recall saying otherwise... but the only reason I can think of for absolutley excluding a possible solution is that it would 'break' something... not because it might put an html tag in the 'business logic' of your HTML application. I was merely pointing out that it would not break it. > Uh, you know, I thought Silent Bob was ... silent? Just a side note but... Kevin Smith (Silent Bob) talks in every movie he's ever been in > It is NOT all preferences and habits. Or at least, it shouldn't be. Why shouldn't it be? Because it's not your preference? > there's a body of knowledge that's been built up by the experiences > and study of others. Who? Trees, acorns, ill-equipped doctors and well organized refridgerators? > In the case of the original poster, I'd probably do the same thing as > he's > doing. But if I were building the application from scratch, I probably > wouldn't. He probably wouldn't either after this little 2400 page adventure. I guess the best 'saying' for Tim and his 2400 pages in this case would be... "You can't polish a turd" so just use your Application.cfm to fix your problem. Now you know that in the future you'll want to be a little more mindful of an applications growth and scalability no matter how small you THINK its going to 'stay' because things just don't always work out the way we expect them to. Now you have your own experience and "study" to base your decisions on and don't have to rely on spooning your dentist. > If you don't think that's a worthy topic of discussion You have to wait for me to say it before you are allowed to insinuate that I said or thought it. ;-) But he's seen the good and bad side of both and will make his choice as to the best solution for him and his next application... and THAT... is a preference no matter where you let your doctor stick his eating utensils. Of course, I may just be a little bitter since I started reading a 60 post strong thread that started out OK, got weak, then got better and then turned to shit... and just decided I wanted to spruce up the ending a little... maaayb And mybe im just bitter because I have to go on a road trip with Will (Who, incidentally, has went through the spoon procedure with his doctor and now has huge gas problems...) ;-) :.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. Bobby Hartsfield http://acoderslife.com ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228092 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
Imagine a road trip with Will and Dave -Original Message- From: Bobby Hartsfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 31 December 2005 20:10 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: HTML In Application.cfm Separating anything wasn't the question of this topic... it's how to include something in 2400 pages easily (by the time you started posting anyway)... and in this case it would be done easily with Application.cfm (you've agreed) but separating milk from eggs or planting trees or spooning with your doctor has nothing to do with anything CF related which... btw.. is the language in question... not English. You want to say something without actually saying it? Use pseudo code, examples and experiences. > I don't think any of the responses to the original poster said that > doing this would break anything I don't recall saying otherwise... but the only reason I can think of for absolutley excluding a possible solution is that it would 'break' something... not because it might put an html tag in the 'business logic' of your HTML application. I was merely pointing out that it would not break it. > Uh, you know, I thought Silent Bob was ... silent? Just a side note but... Kevin Smith (Silent Bob) talks in every movie he's ever been in > It is NOT all preferences and habits. Or at least, it shouldn't be. Why shouldn't it be? Because it's not your preference? > there's a body of knowledge that's been built up by the experiences > and study of others. Who? Trees, acorns, ill-equipped doctors and well organized refridgerators? > In the case of the original poster, I'd probably do the same thing as > he's > doing. But if I were building the application from scratch, I probably > wouldn't. He probably wouldn't either after this little 2400 page adventure. I guess the best 'saying' for Tim and his 2400 pages in this case would be... "You can't polish a turd" so just use your Application.cfm to fix your problem. Now you know that in the future you'll want to be a little more mindful of an applications growth and scalability no matter how small you THINK its going to 'stay' because things just don't always work out the way we expect them to. Now you have your own experience and "study" to base your decisions on and don't have to rely on spooning your dentist. > If you don't think that's a worthy topic of discussion You have to wait for me to say it before you are allowed to insinuate that I said or thought it. ;-) But he's seen the good and bad side of both and will make his choice as to the best solution for him and his next application... and THAT... is a preference no matter where you let your doctor stick his eating utensils. Of course, I may just be a little bitter since I started reading a 60 post strong thread that started out OK, got weak, then got better and then turned to shit... and just decided I wanted to spruce up the ending a little... maaayb And mybe im just bitter because I have to go on a road trip with Will (Who, incidentally, has went through the spoon procedure with his doctor and now has huge gas problems...) ;-) ...:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. Bobby Hartsfield http://acoderslife.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228091 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
To which you say. OK go with x, and then when your not happy with the work, come and pay me to do it properly. -Original Message- From: Jennifer Gavin-Wear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 31 December 2005 17:06 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: HTML In Application.cfm lol Ade .. which is often followed by "and we've been quoted half that price by x" . -Original Message- From: Adrian Lynch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 31 December 2005 16:31 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: HTML In Application.cfm Daniel San, wise is the man who fears the client saying "it's a simple application"... ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228090 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
Because professional experience has shown that a scalpel works better. To get back to the IT world, the entire ITIL suite of best practices is built up from the experience of professionals who have seen what goes wrong when alternative practices are followed. To say that there are no best practices and one can just make up methods on the spot ignores an entire body of knowlege that another professional may expect one has employed. On 1/1/06, Claude Schneegans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>"my preference is to use a spoon for that" would that be ok with you? > > Why not ? As far as he keeps them separated from forks ;-)) -- CFAJAX docs and other useful articles: http://jr-holmes.coldfusionjournal.com/ ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228089 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
> Separating anything wasn't the question of this topic... it's > how to include something in 2400 pages easily (by the time you > started posting anyway)... Again, if you read the entire thread carefully, you will see that I replied to a specific question posed by Claude. His question was not the same as the original poster's question, which I replied to separately. Claude's question was "what is the value of separating presentation logic from application logic?" > and in this case it would be done easily with Application.cfm > (you've agreed) but separating milk from eggs or planting trees > or spooning with your doctor has nothing to do with anything CF > related which... btw.. is the language in question... not English. > You want to say something without actually saying it? Use pseudo > code, examples and experiences. Thank you very much for your helpful advice on how to write. However, I notice that you didn't write your answer in CF, but English. Personally, I find similes and metaphors to be useful in explaining things. If you don't, that's all well and good, but I'd prefer it if you didn't complain to me about it. And again, if you read the thread, you will see that I did post examples and experiences pertaining to separating presentation code from generic application logic. > > It is NOT all preferences and habits. Or at least, it shouldn't > > be. > > Why shouldn't it be? Because it's not your preference? Oh, I don't know, perhaps because a lot of people - probably quite a bit smarter than the both of us - have gained valuable and useful experience about what works and what doesn't? > > If you don't think that's a worthy topic of discussion > > You have to wait for me to say it before you are allowed to > insinuate that I said or thought it. ;-) No, see, that's how conditional logic works. I can specify a condition, which, if met, causes a specific response. As a programmer, you might find that concept useful in the future. For example, assuming that the variable "dumbAss" below can be cast as a Boolean: #Variables.snideRemark# Now, that's not saying dumbAss is true, but if it is, we can respond appropriately. > Of course, I may just be a little bitter since I started > reading a 60 post strong thread that started out OK, got weak, > then got better and then turned to shit... and just decided I > wanted to spruce up the ending a little... Maaayb I don't think you did a very good job. That's just my opinion, of course. Perhaps less bitterness, and more attention to detail, will help the next time you want to spruce something up. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228087 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
Separating anything wasn't the question of this topic... it's how to include something in 2400 pages easily (by the time you started posting anyway)... and in this case it would be done easily with Application.cfm (you've agreed) but separating milk from eggs or planting trees or spooning with your doctor has nothing to do with anything CF related which... btw.. is the language in question... not English. You want to say something without actually saying it? Use pseudo code, examples and experiences. > I don't think any of the responses to the original poster said that doing > this would break anything I don't recall saying otherwise... but the only reason I can think of for absolutley excluding a possible solution is that it would 'break' something... not because it might put an html tag in the 'business logic' of your HTML application. I was merely pointing out that it would not break it. > Uh, you know, I thought Silent Bob was ... silent? Just a side note but... Kevin Smith (Silent Bob) talks in every movie he's ever been in > It is NOT all preferences and habits. Or at least, it shouldn't be. Why shouldn't it be? Because it's not your preference? > there's a body of knowledge that's been built up by the experiences and > study of others. Who? Trees, acorns, ill-equipped doctors and well organized refridgerators? > In the case of the original poster, I'd probably do the same thing as he's > doing. But if I were building the application from scratch, I probably > wouldn't. He probably wouldn't either after this little 2400 page adventure. I guess the best 'saying' for Tim and his 2400 pages in this case would be... "You can't polish a turd" so just use your Application.cfm to fix your problem. Now you know that in the future you'll want to be a little more mindful of an applications growth and scalability no matter how small you THINK its going to 'stay' because things just don't always work out the way we expect them to. Now you have your own experience and "study" to base your decisions on and don't have to rely on spooning your dentist. > If you don't think that's a worthy topic of discussion You have to wait for me to say it before you are allowed to insinuate that I said or thought it. ;-) But he's seen the good and bad side of both and will make his choice as to the best solution for him and his next application... and THAT... is a preference no matter where you let your doctor stick his eating utensils. Of course, I may just be a little bitter since I started reading a 60 post strong thread that started out OK, got weak, then got better and then turned to shit... and just decided I wanted to spruce up the ending a little... maaayb And mybe im just bitter because I have to go on a road trip with Will (Who, incidentally, has went through the spoon procedure with his doctor and now has huge gas problems...) ;-) ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. Bobby Hartsfield http://acoderslife.com ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228082 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
>>"my preference is to use a spoon for that" would that be ok with you? Why not ? As far as he keeps them separated from forks ;-)) -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228081 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
Oh, and just one additional item; I was responding to Claude's question about why you should separate presentation logic from business logic at all. If you don't think that's a worthy topic of discussion, I can only respectfully disagree. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228080 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
> what is this? CF_FotuneCookie_Talk? I was simply using similes. They're pretty commonly used in English. So are metaphors. > Cute little anecdotes or Mr. Miagi/Yoda/Silent Bob like sayings > won't change it. Uh, you know, I thought Silent Bob was ... silent? > The person who asked the question originally now knows > that... but he's stuck with a 2400 page application that > needs some consistent code... wtf... put it in > Application.cfm... it won't break regardless of > anything that some 'framework' Nazi ever told you. > Functionally, there is nothing wrong with putting a > header or an include in your application.cfm if you > know it's going to go across the entire site. I don't think any of the responses to the original poster said that doing this would break anything. He asked about the pros and cons, and he got appropriate responses. In the case of the original poster, I'd probably do the same thing as he's doing. But if I were building the application from scratch, I probably wouldn't. > It's all preferences and habits... And YOUR preferences > and habits will best suit you but you (and everyone else) > will go through trial and errors just like this one to set > your preference. It is NOT all preferences and habits. Or at least, it shouldn't be. What other kind of profession lets you just follow preferences and habits? If you went to a doctor to have your appendix taken out, and he told you "my preference is to use a spoon for that" would that be ok with you? Preferences and habits are fine for things that no one else will have to deal with. There's more to programming than preferences and habits - there's a body of knowledge that's been built up by the experiences and study of others. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228079 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
> Separating logic from display may be good in theory, but it just > does not correspond to reality when dynamic HTML is involved. If > there is no logic in dynamic HTML, then it's not dynamic anymore. No one's saying you shouldn't have any logic in your HTML generation. The question is, what sort of logic should you have there? You could just put everything there, or you could separate the things that have to do specifically with page generation from the things that have to do with the overall logic of how your application works. The stuff that generates your page is typically called "presentation logic". The stuff that does other things is typically called "business logic" or something similar. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228078 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
lol Ade .. which is often followed by "and we've been quoted half that price by x" . -Original Message- From: Adrian Lynch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 31 December 2005 16:31 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: HTML In Application.cfm Daniel San, wise is the man who fears the client saying "it's a simple application"... ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228077 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
Lol... see... didn't change a thing ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. Bobby Hartsfield http://acoderslife.com -Original Message- From: Adrian Lynch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 11:31 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: HTML In Application.cfm Daniel San, wise is the man who fears the client saying "it's a simple application"... -Original Message- From: Bobby Hartsfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 31 December 2005 15:33 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: HTML In Application.cfm >Cute little anecdotes or Mr. Miagi/Yoda/Silent Bob like sayings won't change it. Bobby Hartsfield ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228076 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
Daniel San, wise is the man who fears the client saying "it's a simple application"... -Original Message- From: Bobby Hartsfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 31 December 2005 15:33 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: HTML In Application.cfm >Cute little anecdotes or Mr. Miagi/Yoda/Silent Bob like sayings won't change it. Bobby Hartsfield ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228075 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
> Just as mighty oaks from little acorns grow > You will not make an extreme look any beter just by showing how stupid is the opposite extreme ;-) what is this? CF_FotuneCookie_Talk? You're BOTH right and arguing/debating about it until your both blue in the face is not going to help anyone. It all boils down to experience and preference in the end... p-e-r-i-o-d. Cute little anecdotes or Mr. Miagi/Yoda/Silent Bob like sayings won't change it. Organize EVERYTHING in a manner that best suites the application and its growth whether or not the plan is to let it grow because, regardless of what your PM or client tells you... the possibility is always there. I know that, you both know that and everyone here who has built an app that finally grew so far out of control that it was a pain in the ass to manage anymore... knows that. Everyone else will learn the same lessons when it happens to them... (and it will)... The person who asked the question originally now knows that... but he's stuck with a 2400 page application that needs some consistent code... wtf... put it in Application.cfm... it won't break regardless of anything that some 'framework' Nazi ever told you. Functionally, there is nothing wrong with putting a header or an include in your application.cfm if you know it's going to go across the entire site. It's all preferences and habits... And YOUR preferences and habits will best suit you but you (and everyone else) will go through trial and errors just like this one to set your preference. The first person to come back with... "I wipe my ass from front to back but that doesn't make it the 'best' way to do it does it?" is a fool because yes... otherwise you'de have doodoo on your hoohoo ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. Bobby Hartsfield http://acoderslife.com -Original Message- From: Claude Schneegans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 1:53 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: HTML In Application.cfm >>I suspect you could write your entire application within Application.cfm. However, I don't think that would be a good idea. You will not make an extreme look any beter just by showing how stupid is the opposite extreme ;-) -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228073 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
>>Why do we have neat little plastic things to keep our knives, forks, and spoons separate? It's all organization. The problem is not with idea of "separating", the problem is with "what you are separating" Beside forks and spoons, certain religious persons also have two fridges and two sinks in their kitchen, because they separate milk products from meat... I'm not sure it is considered as "best practice" by many other people. Everybody separate things in applications. I separate data entry forms from database update templates, from search results, etc... Separating logic from display may be good in theory, but it just does not correspond to reality when dynamic HTML is involved. If there is no logic in dynamic HTML, then it's not dynamic anymore. -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228070 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
>>I suspect you could write your entire application within Application.cfm. However, I don't think that would be a good idea. You will not make an extreme look any beter just by showing how stupid is the opposite extreme ;-) -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228064 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
> Ok, but who said one cannot do two different things in > Application.cfm? You can do as many things as you like. I suspect you could write your entire application within Application.cfm. However, I don't think that would be a good idea. > Absolutely not, you said "He was able to do it very quickly, > because all he had to do was write a separate set of display > code." This is fine, but the other side of the coin is that > you end up with two different display templates, then 3, 4,... > If they have some code identical and you have to modify this > code, you now have 2, 3, 4 ... places to look at. I think you'll be hard-pressed to find any commonality between HTML display code and RSS or WML. So, yes, those are separate sets of code. The commonality they share is the business logic, which is stored separately from the display code. > What I mean is that nothing is PERFECT, so there is NO BEST > practice, only good judgment to find the best way to do it > depending on the situation. The method you describe may be > fine for very large applications, but many people are also > working on small and medium applications. A methodology good > for large application may be a hassle for smaller applications. Just as mighty oaks from little acorns grow, large applications often start as small applications. The good judgment of experienced web programmers commonly finds the separation of presentation and business logic to be valuable. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228063 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
>>If you use Application.cfm to initialize your application pages, and you use it to generate output, that's two different things. Ok, but who said one cannot do two different things in Application.cfm? >> May be, but on the other hand, when someone will have to modify >> something common to the whole application, he will have to look >> for all the places some different header can be used. >>You seem to be assuming that there are only two choices - put something in >>Application.cfm, or put it within every page. I don't think those are the >>only two options. Absolutely not, you said "He was able to do it very quickly, because all he had to do was write a separate set of display code." This is fine, but the other side of the coin is that you end up with two different display templates, then 3, 4,... If they have some code identical and you have to modify this code, you now have 2, 3, 4 ... places to look at. What I mean is that nothing is PERFECT, so there is NO BEST practice, only good judgment to find the best way to do it depending on the situation. The method you describe may be fine for very large applications, but many people are also working on small and medium applications. A methodology good for large application may be a hassle for smaller applications. -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228061 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
That's what I do...but in this other guy's case, it would make sense to put in the application.cfm since he would have to re-write all the code on his site to do that Eric -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 30 December 2005 16:15 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: HTML In Application.cfm >I would disagree with that...depending on your design model, it is a >good way to include headers instead of having to write an include >statement on every page. > > Eric and Eric if you use a site template for layout you only incluude the header oncein the template ;-) So NOT on every page. Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228056 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
Just a small point, but for SEO you would be wise to use fully qualified links. -Original Message- From: Scott Stewart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 30 December 2005 21:21 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: HTML In Application.cfm I would think that there would be location issues with HTML in Application.cfm. Meaning: you would need to fully qualify all of the image urls in the HTML. ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228052 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
> > One common reason is simplification - it's just easier to > > work with a module that does one thing. You immediately know > > where to go to change how that one thing works, for example. > > Right, and this applies particularily well to putting any header HTML > code in Application.cfm ;-) If you use Application.cfm to initialize your application pages, and you use it to generate output, that's two different things. > May be, but on the other hand, when someone will have to modify > something common to the whole application, he will have to look > for all the places some different header can be used. You seem to be assuming that there are only two choices - put something in Application.cfm, or put it within every page. I don't think those are the only two options. > I don't mean that everything should be put everytime in > Application.cfm. I'm just against this kind of rule that states > "this is THE best practice, period!". A "best practice" is just > like "the best tool": it depends what you have to do with it. I think that you're absolutely right on this point. You'll notice I didn't say that my recommendation was a best practice. I simply responded to your question about why separating presentation and business logic is a good thing generally. I don't think it's the end of the world if you violate this sometimes. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228050 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
> Of course, I was just trying to keep the discussion simple, > not exhaustive. You should make things as simple as possible, but no simpler. How exhaustive was my response? Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228049 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
Have you read my and especially Dave's replies?? ;-) I think I'm leavin this one as..."I'll agree to disagree" ;-) Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228048 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
damn i hope i never have to update your code, lol personaly, I will get off my lazy ass and type and additional 2 lines to add a header and footer and the main reason is that when I include a header (via cfmodule) I can also add a dynamic page title to each page for search engines, like so : And for those who can't stand to lose the 2 seconds it takes to do that then just make a snippet of the basic layout and click on it and add in between. As far as adding a seperate application.cfm to sections where they would have to put it to break to root app.cfm, thats umm, kinda dumb and besides you should be using application.cfc now As far as doing it to save space well I have seen most of your guys code and u add so much extra crap just to be "cool" that it is far more than adding 2 lines to make it a bit more "portable" and not because ur to lazy to do it. ~Dave the disruptor~ google will pay you money to getting rid of ie :) http://explorerdestroyer.com/ http://www.killbillsbrowser.com/ From: Claude Schneegans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 5:12 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: HTML In Application.cfm >>BOTH will include the header and only in one placeso why not use the best practice and include it via the template and not Application.cfm?? Who said "it is the best practice"? If you consider Application.cfm as tool which can (among many other things) generate a header, why is it so evil to let it generate the header ? Of course, if you need different headers depending on parts of the application, then CFINCLUDE them... . OR store the different parts of your application in differnet directories, and... . use a specific Application.cfm to generate the particular headers ;-) This is MY best practice. -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228047 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
>>the purpose of CF is to build web applications. Web applications don't just "produce HTML" Of course, I was just trying to keep the discussion simple, not exhaustive. -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228046 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
>>Amen Dave part deux! Just as I said, when programing becomes a religion, better start doing something else ;-) -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228045 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
>>One common reason is simplification - it's just easier to work with a module that does one thing. You immediately know where to go to change how that one thing works, for example. Right, and this applies particularily well to putting any header HTML code in Application.cfm ;-) >>For example, a coworker had to add support for RSS and mobile devices to a huge site last week. He was able to do it very quickly, because all he had to do was write a separate set of display code. He didn't have to worry about how it would affect the existing display code or the business logic of the application. May be, but on the other hand, when someone will have to modify something common to the whole application, he will have to look for all the places some different header can be used. I don't mean that everything should be put everytime in Application.cfm. I'm just against this kind of rule that states "this is THE best practice, period!". A "best practice" is just like "the best tool": it depends what you have to do with it. I do use index.cfm?action= type of coding, I also use CFINCLUDE TEMPLATE="header.cfm", I also put some HTML sometimes in Application.cfm, it depends what I think is the best depending on the situation, I do not work one hand on the keyboard, and a bible in the other hand :-) -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228044 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
MVC Design says it's best practice... and I'm pretty sure this has been well accepted as the better approach On 12/30/05, Claude Schneegans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>BOTH will include the header and only in one placeso why not use > the best > practice and include it via the template and not Application.cfm?? > > Who said "it is the best practice"? > If you consider Application.cfm as tool which can (among many other > things) generate a header, > why is it so evil to let it generate the header ? > Of course, if you need different headers depending on parts of the > application, then CFINCLUDE them... > OR store the different parts of your application in differnet > directories, and... > use a specific Application.cfm to generate the particular headers ;-) > > This is MY best practice. > > -- > ___ > REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; > See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm > (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) > Thanks. > > > ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228043 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
>I would disagree with that...depending on your design model, it is a good > way to include headers instead of having to write an include statement on > every page. > > Eric and Eric if you use a site template for layout you only incluude the header oncein the template ;-) So NOT on every page. Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228042 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
>>BOTH will include the header and only in one placeso why not use the best practice and include it via the template and not Application.cfm?? Who said "it is the best practice"? If you consider Application.cfm as tool which can (among many other things) generate a header, why is it so evil to let it generate the header ? Of course, if you need different headers depending on parts of the application, then CFINCLUDE them... OR store the different parts of your application in differnet directories, and... use a specific Application.cfm to generate the particular headers ;-) This is MY best practice. -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228041 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
I would disagree with that...depending on your design model, it is a good way to include headers instead of having to write an include statement on every page. Eric -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 30 December 2005 11:52 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: HTML In Application.cfm >I would never use Application.cfm for output. As far as I'm concerned >its strictly for internal-use code. So I wouldn't use raw html OR an >include. I would use the include on my display template. I regard >Application.cfm as part of the processing tier of an app, not the >display tier. > > I would say that while doing this is certainly possible its the wrong > tool for the job. I'll 2nd Matt's reply. CF does allow developers to do some things that "work", but really shouldn't be done. ;-) Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228040 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
On 12/30/05, Tim Claremont <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It seems to me that placing a CFINCLUDE referencing a navigation bar at the > top of each > and every one of my 2400 cfm pages in my intranet app is more bass-ackwards > than > merely placing the code in question in the Application.cfm. Yes, that would be crazy, but needing to do so in the first place would be an indicator of a bad system design. Do it right, and you only have one main display template for each major section of your site (or one for the whole thing). Thats the page where the header include goes. If you have other variants which require display (say, for example, a login screen or a 'you-forgot-to-fill-in-the-form-field' page) then you would re-use the header (and footer) templates there as well (but not the menu). What you wind up with is a structured approach to building a page display that doesn't rely on workarounds, is light on resources blah blah. Someone mentioned dumping pages into a subfolder where that subfolder has a blank /Application.cfm and OnRequestEnd.cfm as blocks. Thats great so long as you aren't doing anything that needs any session-specific information, or application-var-based settings like paths, or root urls, or user login info, or time-zone settings or... For me that would be a mighty short list. If the application is a simple one then OK, you have a workaround, but one that is going to have to be reinvented if you decide to do anything that isn't, dare I say it, rudimentary. I guess it boils down to always choosing an architecture where you don't have any obvious ceilings to bump into. (BTW I am not a proponent of Fusebox as an answer to the problem). Now, if I were walking into a job that someone else had built over 10 years and was stuck with the architecture, I wouldn't rebuild it for the sake of doing it, but I sure wouldn't build anything else like that if I could help it. -- --mattRobertson-- Janitor, MSB Web Systems mysecretbase.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228039 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
for example if you do that then say when u add a text editor the header and footer will try to squeeze into the textarea and then u gotta go back and reorganize the whole thing. for someone like will its no big deal cause you'd only have like 4 pages in the whole app to change lol ~Dave the disruptor~ google will pay you money to getting rid of ie :) http://explorerdestroyer.com/ http://www.killbillsbrowser.com/ ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228036 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
I would think that there would be location issues with HTML in Application.cfm. Meaning: you would need to fully qualify all of the image urls in the HTML. You might be better off setting a header at the server. Scott A. Stewart ColdFusion Developer GNSI 11820 Parklawn Dr Rockville, MD 20852 (301) 770-9610 -Original Message- From: Tim Claremont [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:59 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: HTML In Application.cfm But what is your rationale for the opinion that it should not be done? It seems to me that placing a CFINCLUDE referencing a navigation bar at the top of each and every one of my 2400 cfm pages in my intranet app is more bass-ackwards than merely placing the code in question in the Application.cfm. I am all for learning a better way to do things, but I need something more substantial than "I don't do it because I don't think it should be done". ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228035 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
Dave, I made your brick quote my last blog of the year (probably). very succinct :) -mark -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 2:37 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: HTML In Application.cfm > But WHY it is important to keep your action and content code > separate in a large application? Does it make it less "large"? ;-) If you were building a house made from brick, you could use lots of regular-sized bricks, or you could use one gigantic brick. Most people would find the former a more workable option. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228034 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
Amen Dave part deux!! ;-) Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228033 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
Why do we have rooms in our houses dedicated to different things? Why do we have neat little plastic things to keep our knives, forks, and spoons separate? It's all organization. No, it doesn't make it less large, but it does make it feel less large. If I get an error, I will know exactly where to go to fix it, rather than scrolling through 10,000 lines of code to find the culprit. On 12/30/05, Claude Schneegans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>if you have a fairly large application where. > > But WHY it is important to keep your action and content code separate in > a large application? > Does it make it less "large"? ;-) > The main reason to keep anything away from the rest is because you are > using it at many places, > so you put it somewhere in a function, a custom tag, an include or > anything else, including Application.cfm, > but this stands for CF code and HTML as well. Still no reason to > separate the code from the HTML. > > > -- > ___ > REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; > See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm > (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) > Thanks. > > > ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228032 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
> >>Because it makes your code easier to maintain? > > This is also the reason one would put HTML in the application.cfm, at > only one place: easier to maintain. > Since the purpose of CF is to produce HTML, I do not see how it can be > easier to maintain > if CF code is separated from HTML ;-/ So Clause...how are these different then: -header included via Application.cfm -header included via site teamplte file BOTH will include the header and only in one placeso why not use the best practice and include it via the template and not Application.cfm?? Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228031 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
Amen Dave!! Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228030 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
I've been creating a layout cfc lately, then calling showHeader(), showLeftMenu(), etc.. Seems to work great. Then for content, I built a productdisplay cfc for instance. listCategories(), listProducts(), etc... Will ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228029 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
> This is also the reason one would put HTML in the application.cfm, > at only one place: easier to maintain. Since the purpose of CF is > to produce HTML, I do not see how it can be easier to maintain > if CF code is separated from HTML ;-/ I disagree with your contention that the purpose of CF is to produce HTML. I would instead say that the purpose of CF is to build web applications. Web applications don't just "produce HTML", they interact with databases and do all sorts of other things. HTML generation is just one small part of what web applications do. I've had to work on existing applications which combine presentation and business logic, and it hasn't been a pleasant experience. If it's been pleasant for you, by all means, feel free to continue. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228028 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
> But WHY it is important to keep your action and content code > separate in a large application? Does it make it less "large"? ;-) If you were building a house made from brick, you could use lots of regular-sized bricks, or you could use one gigantic brick. Most people would find the former a more workable option. > The main reason to keep anything away from the rest is > because you are using it at many places, so you put it somewhere > in a function, a custom tag, an include or anything else, > including Application.cfm, but this stands for CF code and > HTML as well. Still no reason to separate the code from the > HTML. There are other reasons why you might write separate modules, other than reuse. One common reason is simplification - it's just easier to work with a module that does one thing. You immediately know where to go to change how that one thing works, for example. If you find that you need to do that one thing elsewhere, it's easy to do if you've followed this approach. And, it's common in web applications for views to change independent of business logic and vice-versa. So why would you want to stick them together in one big undifferentiated mass of code? For example, a coworker had to add support for RSS and mobile devices to a huge site last week. He was able to do it very quickly, because all he had to do was write a separate set of display code. He didn't have to worry about how it would affect the existing display code or the business logic of the application. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228027 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
>>Because it makes your code easier to maintain? This is also the reason one would put HTML in the application.cfm, at only one place: easier to maintain. Since the purpose of CF is to produce HTML, I do not see how it can be easier to maintain if CF code is separated from HTML ;-/ -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228026 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
> Ok, fine, then why "seperate processing/business logic from > the display"? This is not a reason, this is just another way > to rephrase the question... Because it makes your code easier to maintain? Because it lets you change one without affecting the other? To follow your argument to its logical conclusion, why write APIs and interfaces at all? Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228025 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
>>if you have a fairly large application where. But WHY it is important to keep your action and content code separate in a large application? Does it make it less "large"? ;-) The main reason to keep anything away from the rest is because you are using it at many places, so you put it somewhere in a function, a custom tag, an include or anything else, including Application.cfm, but this stands for CF code and HTML as well. Still no reason to separate the code from the HTML. -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228024 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
>>Sure he gave you a reason...seperate processing/business logic from the display tier. Ok, fine, then why "seperate processing/business logic from the display"? This is not a reason, this is just another way to rephrase the question... Just like "Who created the world?"... The Creator... ah OK, fine ;-) -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228022 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
>>I have heard some people advise against the use of HTML in the Application.cfm file. Like many "Never do" or "Always do", this is purely a matter of religon ;-) The only reason for not putting HTML in Application.cfm, is if the code is not intended to be used in every page. I would even say that keeping the display code separated from the logic by principle, is againt the basic philosopy behind CF and its nature. CF is a *dynamic HTML language*, the "logic" is in the "dynamic" part, so trying to separate the dynamic from the HTML is nothing but that some sort of academic and idle exercice. Furthermore, CF is THE language in which the HTML and the logic are THE MOST integrated, and this is one of the main reasons we all like it so much, so why going against it? This is my opinion,... and I share it ;-) -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228021 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
> I have heard some people advise against the use of HTML in > the Application.cfm file. I am wondering what the logic is > behind that thinking. > > I make use of the Application.cfm file to display the > navigation bar at the top of my pages (image maps, etc.) > > I have been doing this for years without a problem that I can > detect. > > What is the consensus? Should I merely use a CFINCLUDE in the > application.cfm for my navigation bar? There are several reasons why you might not want to place display code within Application.cfm. One is to avoid mixing display and application logic. Another is that, as your application grows, the likelihood that you'll want the exact same display added to every page decreases; for example, when you're downloading a file via CFCONTENT, or displaying a popup window. Now, as problems go, these are pretty minor, and can be worked around pretty easily. However, most people try to structure their applications so that they have as few workarounds as they can, and this becomes more important as your application grows in size and complexity. I wouldn't worry too much about this one way or the other, though. That is, I wouldn't go back to existing applications and rewrite them to avoid this. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228019 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
I've only been using CF for a little over a year at work and at home. Just a disclaimer. :) My response would be that if you have a fairly large application where it is important to keep your action and content code separate, then it is well worth the time to learn and deploy Fusebox. With a healthy application of Fusebox and CSS, it's possible to keep 99% of your action, query, content, and display(styles) code separate. You'd be able to apply all the headers, footers, siders, upers and downers you wanted without messing with Application.cfm. Clearly though, with already-active 2400 page intranet, that's not a feasable suggestion. Sorry. :( I usually cringe when I hear about people coding a certain way "because it works." That is what makes the W3C cry itself to sleep every night. But in this case, you're not breaking any official standards, per se, only a vague standard that other coders have imposed on themselves. And Adobe isn't likely to change the functionality of Application.cfm any time soon. So I say go for it. :) On 12/30/05, Adrian Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Ah but only when you request the pop-up! :OD > > -Original Message- > From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 30 December 2005 19:02 > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: HTML In Application.cfm > > > > I've just had a thought... > > > > if you don't want the header in the pop-up and you don't want a sub > > application, , no more header :OD > > > > Ade > > still a workaround...extra processing when it's not needed ;-) > > and that was just a simple example...there are many far more complex > reasons > that I just don't have time to convey today. > > Cheers > > Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. > > > ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228018 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
N, milliseconds are people too you know! They need to work! They have mini-milliseconds (or should that be nanoseconds) to feed!! -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 30 December 2005 19:21 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: HTML In Application.cfm > Ah but only when you request the pop-up! :OD LOL...still extra at time of call ;-) save those milliseconds!! Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228017 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
> Ah but only when you request the pop-up! :OD LOL...still extra at time of call ;-) save those milliseconds!! Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228016 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
Ah but only when you request the pop-up! :OD -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 30 December 2005 19:02 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: HTML In Application.cfm > I've just had a thought... > > if you don't want the header in the pop-up and you don't want a sub > application, , no more header :OD > > Ade still a workaround...extra processing when it's not needed ;-) and that was just a simple example...there are many far more complex reasons that I just don't have time to convey today. Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228014 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
a...one of those sites...been there...have the scars to prove it ;-) Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228012 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
> I've just had a thought... > > if you don't want the header in the pop-up and you don't want a sub > application, , no more header :OD > > Ade still a workaround...extra processing when it's not needed ;-) and that was just a simple example...there are many far more complex reasons that I just don't have time to convey today. Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228011 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
Hey Tim, Yep...alot does depend on the size/complexity of the app. I've built a lot of very large and complex apps with wildy different display needs depending on where the user is at. You hit a point at which the "boy this works great" turns into "wow was that a bad way to structure things". That said I got lots of advice from better programmers than I early on in my careerso I've always done my best to seperate things "the right way" from scratch...then if requirements change you don't have to do an app tear down and re-factor..just start using the built-in scalability and away I go ;-) This debate is very similar to which language is bestdepends on the requirementsbest tool for the job. ;-) and of course there there is a lot of value in the old saying..."If it ain't broke...don't fix it" ;-) Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228010 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
No argument there either. When I started this intranet application close to ten years ago there were few enough pages to where a site template would have been akin to putting an elevator in an outhouse. No chance of going back now >Well Tim having 2400 pages that are not run based on a site template or that >don't include a standard header/footer is the bass-ackwards way of doing >things >;-) ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228008 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
I've just had a thought... if you don't want the header in the pop-up and you don't want a sub application, , no more header :OD Ade -Original Message- From: Tim Claremont [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 30 December 2005 17:35 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: HTML In Application.cfm Thanks for the example Bryan. In my experience, the situation you describe has, in fact, come up from time to time. It has happened so infrequently however that I have gotten away with creating a directory (usually a subdirectory of the directory containing the calling page) on my site called NoHeader. This directory has a blank Application.cfm and a blank OnRequestEnd.cfm. Any pages that meet the criteria you describe are placed in that directory. I am by no means convinced that my method is sound or logical or acceptible. It has turned into one of those things that has worked so well for so many years that I cannot justify changing it without a little convincing. When I sit back and become more objective about it, though, I can see where an application with logic far removed from mine would probably suffer from the arrangement I have applied here. Thus, I am not about to suggest that you are wrong. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228007 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
Thanks for the example Bryan. In my experience, the situation you describe has, in fact, come up from time to time. It has happened so infrequently however that I have gotten away with creating a directory (usually a subdirectory of the directory containing the calling page) on my site called NoHeader. This directory has a blank Application.cfm and a blank OnRequestEnd.cfm. Any pages that meet the criteria you describe are placed in that directory. I am by no means convinced that my method is sound or logical or acceptible. It has turned into one of those things that has worked so well for so many years that I cannot justify changing it without a little convincing. When I sit back and become more objective about it, though, I can see where an application with logic far removed from mine would probably suffer from the arrangement I have applied here. Thus, I am not about to suggest that you are wrong. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228006 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
> But what is your rationale for the opinion that it should not be done? > > It seems to me that placing a CFINCLUDE referencing a navigation bar at the > top of each and every one of my 2400 cfm pages in my intranet app is more > bass-ackwards than merely placing the code in question in the Application.cfm. > > I am all for learning a better way to do things, but I need something more > substantial than "I don't do it because I don't think it should be done". Well Tim having 2400 pages that are not run based on a site template or that don't include a standard header/footer is the bass-ackwards way of doing things ;-) How I structure an app: index.cfm is the site layout template...it includes header/footer/menu etc. I pass around a URL var called pg which is the file name I want included for content (I always perform a FileExists() check and if not kick user to a page not found page). If I want to change the look over EVERY page I just edit index.cfm (or one of the included header/footer/menu files). Hope this sheds some light ;-) Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228005 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
> That isn't really an answer however. You are saying not to do it, but why > not? Is it personal preference or is there a specific reason why this is to > be avoided. > > I use it myself as well when I need something at the top of every page (and > to check security to make sure you can view that page as well). Is there > any real problem with doing this except that it doesn't fit in with the > idea of what you say it should be like? Sure he gave you a reason...seperate processing/business logic from the display tier. Application.cfm is really meant (but not enforced) for security, session management, and application settings like global vars etc. You can also have CFCs output display codebut it's also a bad practice. Think of this scenariowhat if you have a page you don't want to show the header on (pop-up window containing a file upload interfaceyou don't want a header and menu in that window). You have to Add some mechanism to hide the display code in certain circumstances to stop the header/menu from displaying when using application.cfm to disaply them: If you use a display template (which includes your header/menu file(s)) for all main window pages, all you need to do is make the pop-up a seperate file from your main site template and no "hooks" are required. So if you have display code in Application.cfm you have to perform conditional checks on EVERY page request to show or hide that display (if that flexibility is required). If you properly seperate out the display code you do NOT have to perform that additional conditional check on every page request. This is a rather simplistic examplebut I think you'll see that you can end up adding complexity and overhead because of doing things that are possible but not a good practice ;-) Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228003 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
There is nothing technically wrong with placing html or any other display layer code in the Application.cfm. SOME developer believe that you should never mix action / object code with display code. This is simply personal coding practice rules that many people live by. They are in no way "right" or "wrong", it again comes down to what works for you and your applications. I say, why not use the Application.cfm as a place to put valid code that needs to be on every page of your application, I mean, it is already included in every page of your application. Just my 2 cents. -- Alan Rother Macromedia Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX 7 Developer ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228001 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
Application.cfm is a file that runs on every cfm page. Anything you do that should be done on every page can be moved to the application file. If you want to keep the display code separate from the logic, use an include or a tag to display it, but feel free to put it in there. I see no reason to clutter every page of a site with something that can be done once in a single file. Once the "something" becomes conditional (not on every page), then you need to decide how much conditional code you want to run in the application file. But site-wide headers and footers, and even logging, make good sense in the Application/OnRequestEnd. IMHO. On 12/30/05, Matt Robertson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I would never use Application.cfm for output. As far as I'm concerned > its strictly for internal-use code. So I wouldn't use raw html OR an > include. I would use the include on my display template. I regard > Application.cfm as part of the processing tier of an app, not the > display tier. > > I would say that while doing this is certainly possible its the wrong > tool for the job. > > -- > --mattRobertson-- > Janitor, MSB Web Systems > mysecretbase.com > > ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:228000 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
But what is your rationale for the opinion that it should not be done? It seems to me that placing a CFINCLUDE referencing a navigation bar at the top of each and every one of my 2400 cfm pages in my intranet app is more bass-ackwards than merely placing the code in question in the Application.cfm. I am all for learning a better way to do things, but I need something more substantial than "I don't do it because I don't think it should be done". ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:227997 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
That isn't really an answer however. You are saying not to do it, but why not? Is it personal preference or is there a specific reason why this is to be avoided. I use it myself as well when I need something at the top of every page (and to check security to make sure you can view that page as well). Is there any real problem with doing this except that it doesn't fit in with the idea of what you say it should be like? Original Message: - From: Matt Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 09:45:28 -0800 To: cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: Re: HTML In Application.cfm I would never use Application.cfm for output. As far as I'm concerned its strictly for internal-use code. So I wouldn't use raw html OR an include. I would use the include on my display template. I regard Application.cfm as part of the processing tier of an app, not the display tier. I would say that while doing this is certainly possible its the wrong tool for the job. -- --mattRobertson-- Janitor, MSB Web Systems mysecretbase.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:227996 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
>I would never use Application.cfm for output. As far as I'm concerned > its strictly for internal-use code. So I wouldn't use raw html OR an > include. I would use the include on my display template. I regard > Application.cfm as part of the processing tier of an app, not the > display tier. > > I would say that while doing this is certainly possible its the wrong > tool for the job. I'll 2nd Matt's reply. CF does allow developers to do some things that "work", but really shouldn't be done. ;-) Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:227995 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: HTML In Application.cfm
I would never use Application.cfm for output. As far as I'm concerned its strictly for internal-use code. So I wouldn't use raw html OR an include. I would use the include on my display template. I regard Application.cfm as part of the processing tier of an app, not the display tier. I would say that while doing this is certainly possible its the wrong tool for the job. -- --mattRobertson-- Janitor, MSB Web Systems mysecretbase.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:227994 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: HTML In Application.cfm
If it works, stick with it. Ade -Original Message- From: Tim Claremont [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 30 December 2005 16:30 To: CF-Talk Subject: HTML In Application.cfm I have heard some people advise against the use of HTML in the Application.cfm file. I am wondering what the logic is behind that thinking. I make use of the Application.cfm file to display the navigation bar at the top of my pages (image maps, etc.) I have been doing this for years without a problem that I can detect. What is the consensus? Should I merely use a CFINCLUDE in the application.cfm for my navigation bar? ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:227993 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54