Re: [digitalradio] New software available for next 070 Club PSKFEST

[o.]

Dear friend;

How do I get the program. It needs a password and ID

Best 73

Omar YK1AO

  - Original Message - 
  From: EA4ZB 
  To: grupo digitalradio 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 1:03 PM
  Subject: [digitalradio] New software available for next 070 Club PSKFEST



  Hey all!

  New software is available for next 070 CLUB PSKFEST. The author is Juanma 
EA1CUI.

  Hello



  Under date of today, I send you a link for the unloading of Psk's program.



  The Program is named Conatct Psk and this prepared to calculate the contest 
070 Club PskFest 



  It can be used in Spanish and in English, and he has many advantages.



  The program finds in the following link:



  http://www.ea1cui.com/contact-pskV4.5.zip



  The program can do the following:



  - he has two individual visual display screens of Rx/Tx

  - Psk31 and Psk63

  - Incorporate 72 Macros Automatic

  - he calculates coordinates and walks

  - the Call Consults Book

  - he has book of contacts

  - export and he imports a Cabrillo

  - he calculates statistics for DXCC, WAE and IOTA

  - calculates the punctuation of the contest 070 Club Pskfest

  - capture IOTAS in real time

  - he has Qsl's's module of impression, envelopes and labels.

  - use visual informacón's windows for colors

  - send and capture progressive numbers

  - he can create multiple log ' s

  - he connects to the Cluster



  This and next muches but. An interesting Software created in Spain for Psk 
for the station is EA1CUI



  www.ea1cui.com





  I hope that you like it . Greetings and to next




  joaquin, EA4ZB 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  http://www.ea4zb.com
  (Translate to spanish language the activities to 070 CLUB, endorsements, 
contest rules, etc and more...)
  (casi todo en psk - psk31 para principiantes - concursos en español)




   

Re: [digitalradio] New software available for next 070 Club PSKFEST

[EA4ZB]

Hey all!
The correct link is http://www.ea1cui.com/contact-pskV4.5.zip.


Install to C:/ hard disk and follows steps:

Change language to spanish or english in the menu
Select FILES --- OPEN.CREATE LOG (ex: test070club)
Select FILES --- CONCURSE MODE --- FIJAR PROGRESIVO ENVIADO. (ex: EA to
Spain, ON to Belgium, etc).
into MENU BAR to Callssign, Name, etc, in PRO introducing ur contry name,
and ... for fixed in log ur country/State/province RECEIVED, -Alt +
double click in text to capture


2007/1/10, Salomao Fresco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


   Hi all!

The correct link is as follows:



Regards


 On 1/10/07, Salomao Fresco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> !Holá!
>
> Quero experimentar o software, mas para aceder ao sitio pede "password"
> e "nome de utilizador".
>
> Se possivel envia por e-mail.
>
> Saludos
>
> Salomão
> CT2IRJ
>
>
>  On 1/10/07, EA4ZB <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
> >
> >  Hey all!
> >
> > New software is available for next 070 CLUB PSKFEST. The author is
> > Juanma EA1CUI.
> >
> >
> > Hello
> >
> >
> >
> > Under date of today, I send you a link for the unloading of Psk's
> > program.
> >
> >
> >
> > The Program is named *Conatct Psk *and this prepared to calculate the
> > contest 070 Club PskFest
> >
> >
> >
> > It can be used in Spanish and in English, and he has many advantages.
> >
> >
> >
> > The program finds in the following link:
> >
> >
> >
> > 
http://www.ea1cui.com/contact-pskV4.5.zip
> >
> >
> >
> > *The program can do the following:*
> >
> > * *
> >
> > - he has two individual visual display screens of Rx/Tx
> >
> > - Psk31 and Psk63
> >
> > - Incorporate 72 Macros Automatic
> >
> > - he calculates coordinates and walks
> >
> > - the Call Consults Book
> >
> > - he has book of contacts
> >
> > - export and he imports a Cabrillo
> >
> > - he calculates statistics for DXCC, WAE and IOTA
> >
> > - calculates the punctuation of the contest 070 Club Pskfest
> >
> > - capture IOTAS in real time
> >
> > - he has Qsl's's module of impression, envelopes and labels.
> >
> > - use visual informacón's windows for colors
> >
> > - send and capture progressive numbers
> >
> > - he can create multiple log ' s
> >
> > - he connects to the Cluster
> >
> >
> >
> > This and next muches but. An interesting Software created in Spain for
> > Psk for the station is 
*EA1CUI
> > *
> >
> >
> >
> > 
www.ea1cui.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I hope that you like it . Greetings and to next
> >
> >
> >
> > joaquin, EA4ZB
> >  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
http://www.ea4zb.com
> > (Translate to spanish language the activities to 070 CLUB,
> > endorsements, contest rules, etc and more...)
> > (casi todo en psk - psk31 para principiantes - concursos en español)
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Cumprimentos
>
> Salomão Fresco
> CT2IRJ
>
> If it works... dont fix it!




--
Cumprimentos

Salomão Fresco
CT2IRJ

If it works... dont fix it!







--
73 de Joaquin, EA4ZB

Re: [digitalradio] Re: W9AV W3LL W7ZR

[Katy Mulvey]

Bill McLaughlin wrote:
> This happens during most every "contest"I used to work contests 
> alot when I was younger and had more staminaunderstand the 
> frustrations of many as some contest ops seem to not care about 
> anything other than points. "Gentleman's" agreements seem to be 
> predicated on people acting gentlemanly; alas such is oft not the 
> case. 

Seems to me the obvious solution is to put gentlemanly behavior right 
into the contest rules -- restrict contesting to a sub-band (or bands), 
and deduct points for contacts made outside of those restrictions. 
Perhaps there are practical considerations that make that too difficult 
to enforce, though.

  Katy

Re: [digitalradio] New software available for next 070 Club PSKFEST

[CT2HKY do Gmail]

´73's.

Colega Salomão e outros, se forem a este link:  http://www.ea1cui.com/ tem lá o 
acesso para descarregar o programa.

Também o podem fazer em: ftp://ct2hky.no-ip.biz secção/directório PSK

Continuação de muitos e bons contactos.

Luis Cavaleiro
   CT2HKY


- Original Message - 
From: Salomao Fresco 
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 8:43 PM
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] New software available for next 070 Club PSKFEST



!Holá!

Quero experimentar o software, mas para aceder ao sitio pede "password" e "nome 
de utilizador".

Se possivel envia por e-mail.

Saludos

Salomão
CT2IRJ

 
On 1/10/07, EA4ZB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
  Hey all!

  New software is available for next 070 CLUB PSKFEST. The author is Juanma 
EA1CUI.

  Hello



  Under date of today, I send you a link for the unloading of Psk's program.



  The Program is named Conatct Psk and this prepared to calculate the contest 
070 Club PskFest 



  It can be used in Spanish and in English, and he has many advantages.



  The program finds in the following link:



  http://www.ea1cui.com/contact-pskV4.5.zip



  The program can do the following:



  - he has two individual visual display screens of Rx/Tx

  - Psk31 and Psk63

  - Incorporate 72 Macros Automatic

  - he calculates coordinates and walks

  - the Call Consults Book

  - he has book of contacts

  - export and he imports a Cabrillo

  - he calculates statistics for DXCC, WAE and IOTA

  - calculates the punctuation of the contest 070 Club Pskfest

  - capture IOTAS in real time

  - he has Qsl's's module of impression, envelopes and labels.

  - use visual informacón's windows for colors

  - send and capture progressive numbers

  - he can create multiple log ' s

  - he connects to the Cluster



  This and next muches but. An interesting Software created in Spain for Psk 
for the station is EA1CUI



  www.ea1cui.com





  I hope that you like it . Greetings and to next 




  joaquin, EA4ZB 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  http://www.ea4zb.com 
  (Translate to spanish language the activities to 070 CLUB, endorsements, 
contest rules, etc and more...)
  (casi todo en psk - psk31 para principiantes - concursos en español)






-- 
Cumprimentos 

Salomão Fresco
CT2IRJ

If it works... dont fix it! 

 

Re: [digitalradio] Odd PC Issue

[ve3fwf]

Hummm:

Very interesting and here is a list of suggestions and questions:

1. What OS are you using and what browser?
2. How you tried FireFox or another Web browser?
3. Crack open the taskmanager and see what process (if any) is burning the CPU 
when you are experiencing the problem. If there is lots of CPU and no one 
process hogging the CPU, perhaps you have RF entering the CPU by the keyboard 
cable? Are your transmitting when you have the problem? Perhaps you have an 
automatic BBS that fires up and RF is getting into your system?
4. On Windows XP SP2, I've seen the process SVCHOST go into a tight loop when 
running IE 7. The problem does not occur when using FireFox.
5. Try another keyboard as per Dave's suggestion.

73, Bernie, Ottawa, Canada.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Dave Corio 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 8:40 PM
  Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Odd PC Issue


  That is odd, Andy! Here are my thoughts

  Have you checked for an IRQ conflict with the keyboard? Is the keyboard 
wireless? Have you tried a different keyboard on that PC?

  Does the problem show up in all web-based situations, such as filling in 
forms, or only when posting to a forum where there is much more typing? Have 
you peeked at the performance monitor while typing to see if that is maxing out?

  I sure don't have the answers, and I'm not an expert (ask the XYL!!) but 
these are what I would look at.

  73
  Dave
  KB3MOW


  Andrew O'Brien wrote: 

I have typed this message twice, once in original format (see below)
and once with a corrected format so that you could actually
understand what I am typing. I posted it to a PC forum but received no
answers, hopefully someone here has some ideas.

For the past month or I have been having a problem with web based
email, mostly to this and other Yahoo groups, also with Gmail
postings. When I type the messages , many of the characters that I
type do not make it to the screen. There is a significant lag, at
times, but unlike typical lags caused by a slow Internet connection,
sometimes whole words never make it to the screen! I thought it
might be due to lack of RAM and upgraded this 2.6 gHz CPU PC to one
with 512 MG of RAM. it did not solve the problem. I am using a
cable modem with good speed. The problem NEVER occurred when typing
email or using Outlook, or when composing items in Word. ONLY when
typing in to web based applications. I have run spyware and virus
checking software numerous time. There are periods that the problems
goes away, sometimes for a day at a time .

I have three other PC's in the house, two better performing PCs, and
one an old 1.1 CPU with 256 of RAM, the problem never occurs on the
other PCs. Since it is happening on the PC that I use for ham
operations , I would like to find a fix for this issue .In general,
the PC performs OK otherwise but does seem slower than one would
expect, the CPU often shows as being 100% in use. Not always though.
While typing this message, the CPU has not gone above 50%.

Here is what the above message looked like before I fixed it for
missing characters.

For the past month or I have been having a problem with web
basdemail, mostly to this nother Yahoo groups, also with Gmail
postings. When I typ the messages , many of the chrcters that I type
o not make it to the screen. There is a signific lag, at times, but
unlike stypical lags caused by a slow Iternet connection, sometimes
whole words evr make it to the scren! I thought it might be due to
lack of RAM and upgraded this 2.6 gHz CPU PC to one with 512 MG of
RAM. is did not solve the probm. I a using a cable modem with
gspeed. The prolem NEVER occu when typingemail ugOutlook o when
compsing items in Word OLY when typing in to wb based applicatns.
I have run yware and vrus checkingsftware numerous time. There are
periods ta the problems goes away, sometimes or a day at a time .

I hethree othe PC's in the hos, two better performing PCs and one an
old 1.1 CPUth 256 of RAM, the problem nver occurs on the othePCs.
Since it is happening o the PC that I usef ham operati, I would like
to fid a fix for this issue.In general, the PC performs OK otherwise
but does seem slowerthan oewould expect the CPUoften shows as being
100% inuse. Not lways though Wile tyoing this messge, the CPU has not
gon above 50%.

Andy K3UK



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.9/622 - Release Date: 1/10/2007 2:52 
PM
  
   

[digitalradio] Re: Odd PC Issue

[Andrew O'Brien]

As suggested, I am trying Firefox right now rather than IE 7.  Hmmm,
the problem seems to have gone away.  Maybe that was the issue, I will
double check with IE7 one more time. 

Andy K3UK

[digitalradio] Re: Odd PC Issue

[Andrew O'Brien]

Thanks Bernie, I usually use IE 7 with XP sp2. I am using IE7 to type 
this message since my test a few minutes ago with Firefox did not 
replicate the problem.  Also looks like IE7 is working OK as I type 
this. In taskmanger 98 of the CPU is currently listed as "system ilde 
process"  , alg.exe is using 150,648 of RAM.

I do not type when I am transmitting so that should not be the 
problem.  When I just typed the word "so"in the previous sentence, 
the letter 'o' did not appear, the PC paused while the HD was being 
accessed.  After about 3 seconds, I was able to re-type the 'o'.  
Task manager indicated that CPU use was low when the pause was 
happening.

Andy K3UK

 --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "ve3fwf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hummm:
> 
> Very interesting and here is a list of suggestions and questions:
> 
> 1. What OS are you using and what browser?
> 2. How you tried FireFox or another Web browser?
> 3. Crack open the taskmanager and see what process (if any) is 
burning the CPU when you are experiencing the problem. If there is 
lots of CPU and no one process hogging the CPU, perhaps you have RF 
entering the CPU by the keyboard cable? Are your transmitting when 
you have the problem? Perhaps you have an automatic BBS that fires up 
and RF is getting into your system?
> 4. On Windows XP SP2, I've seen the process SVCHOST go into a tight 
loop when running IE 7. The problem does not occur when using FireFox.
> 5. Try another keyboard as per Dave's suggestion.
> 
> 73, Bernie, Ottawa, Canada.
> 
>   - Original Message - 
>   From: Dave Corio 
>   To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 8:40 PM
>   Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Odd PC Issue
> 
> 
>   That is odd, Andy! Here are my thoughts
> 
>   Have you checked for an IRQ conflict with the keyboard? Is 
the keyboard wireless? Have you tried a different keyboard on that PC?
> 
>   Does the problem show up in all web-based situations, such as 
filling in forms, or only when posting to a forum where there is much 
more typing? Have you peeked at the performance monitor while typing 
to see if that is maxing out?
> 
>   I sure don't have the answers, and I'm not an expert (ask the 
XYL!!) but these are what I would look at.
> 
>   73
>   Dave
>   KB3MOW
> 
> 
>   Andrew O'Brien wrote: 
> 
> I have typed this message twice, once in original format (see 
below)
> and once with a corrected format so that you could actually
> understand what I am typing. I posted it to a PC forum but 
received no
> answers, hopefully someone here has some ideas.
> 
> For the past month or I have been having a problem with web 
based
> email, mostly to this and other Yahoo groups, also with Gmail
> postings. When I type the messages , many of the characters 
that I
> type do not make it to the screen. There is a significant lag, 
at
> times, but unlike typical lags caused by a slow Internet 
connection,
> sometimes whole words never make it to the screen! I thought it
> might be due to lack of RAM and upgraded this 2.6 gHz CPU PC to 
one
> with 512 MG of RAM. it did not solve the problem. I am using a
> cable modem with good speed. The problem NEVER occurred when 
typing
> email or using Outlook, or when composing items in Word. ONLY 
when
> typing in to web based applications. I have run spyware and 
virus
> checking software numerous time. There are periods that the 
problems
> goes away, sometimes for a day at a time .
> 
> I have three other PC's in the house, two better performing 
PCs, and
> one an old 1.1 CPU with 256 of RAM, the problem never occurs on 
the
> other PCs. Since it is happening on the PC that I use for ham
> operations , I would like to find a fix for this issue .In 
general,
> the PC performs OK otherwise but does seem slower than one would
> expect, the CPU often shows as being 100% in use. Not always 
though.
> While typing this message, the CPU has not gone above 50%.
> 
> Here is what the above message looked like before I fixed it for
> missing characters.
> 
> For the past month or I have been having a problem with web
> basdemail, mostly to this nother Yahoo groups, also with Gmail
> postings. When I typ the messages , many of the chrcters that I 
type
> o not make it to the screen. There is a signific lag, at times, 
but
> unlike stypical lags caused by a slow Iternet connection, 
sometimes
> whole words evr make it to the scren! I thought it might be due 
to
> lack of RAM and upgraded this 2.6 gHz CPU PC to one with 512 MG 
of
> RAM. is did not solve the probm. I a using a cable modem with
> gspeed. The prolem NEVER occu when typingemail ugOutlook o when
> compsing items in Word OLY when typing in to wb based 
applicatns.
> I have run yware and vrus checkingsftware numerous time. There 
are
> periods ta the problems goes a

Re: [digitalradio] Re: Odd PC Issue

[Dave Doc]

Andy, it looks to me like you may have either a virus or some type of
spyware, and that the hard-drive access is eating your lunch. I know you
said you scanned for both, but I recall once having a virus that disabled
my Mcafee anti-virus, and left it appearing to still work! What programs
do you have running on your taskbar at any given time? Anything like a
weather bug, a news headline, anything that would requre constant
hard-drive access?

What anti-virus and anti-spyware are you
using, and are they kept up to date? I'd suggest deleting and reinstalling
the anti-virus, to be sure that's functional, and I highly recommend
"Adaware" as an anti-spyware program. It's free and seems to
catch everything.

Just as an aside, the company I work for - a
major life insurance carrier - will not allow any computers used for the
business to use IE7. There are just too many issues with it to use in this
environment.

73
Dave
KB3MOW


>
Thanks Bernie, I usually use IE 7 with XP sp2. I am using IE7 to type 
> this message since my test a few minutes ago with Firefox did not

> replicate the problem. Also looks like IE7 is working OK as I
type 
> this. In taskmanger 98 of the CPU is currently listed as
"system ilde 
> process" , alg.exe is using 150,648 of
RAM. 
> 

[digitalradio] Movement toward open digital software?

[KV9U]

I am a big proponent of cross platform interoperability and I am tending 
to continue moving away from anything that tends to not be cross 
platform. My Firefox web browser, Open Office suite, XnView photo 
viewing (and others), the free version of the excellent AVG Virus 
protection which is also available for Linux, etc. The one area that 
suffers the most is ironically amateur radio programs, particularly 
digital amateur radio programs since there do not seem to be many cross 
platform at this time. Any time you have cross platform programs, there 
is much more chance that the product has increased viability. And with 
digital modes, it is even more significant. A good example would be the 
use of an ARQ PSK63 mode as used in PSKmail if it had cross platform 
capability. But if you have no one to talk to, you are not going to be 
using such a mode as it needs a certain number of users to reach a 
critical mass.

There is no reason that we can not have a memory ARQ mode for 
keyboarding or even faster purposes. The main limitation will be a 
noticeable latency, but that would depend upon how much time you want to 
leave for the behind the scenes pipelining. This has already been 
invented and tried and it works well but the inventor has not released 
anything to the open source community at this time. What would need to 
be done is to have this kind of ARQ mode, not only work at high speeds 
(which it already did), but also work like the proprietary 
hardware/software modes and have a fall back position as signals weaken 
or are affected by interference. Thus far, the hams that write digital 
software are just not interested in doing this. The non response to 
Jose's comments also shows that almost no digital hams are interested in 
this either.

After all these years, and with all the work that so many have done 
voluntarily to produce some non-ARQ but excellent keyboard digital 
modes, it has not yet lead to anything open source that can compete with 
the closed proprietary equipment/software for high speed digital. I 
consider that unfortunate.

The one exception may be the digital SSTV folks who have developed modes 
that can get quite a bit of data through in a short time. You have to in 
order to send pictures with no errors. They even have a crude form of 
"after the fact" ARQ to provide fills to receiving stations that may 
have missed certain blocks of data. This permits a one to many 
transmission. Last night I was receiving digital SSTV pictures on the 75 
meter frequency but the band was fairly quiet with good S/N ratio.

Several years ago, a protocol being used by digital SSTV operators was 
adapted as a connected mode with the SCAMP program. Phenomenal success 
at high text data rates, but requiring good conditions of around 10 db 
S/N ratio or better. It just did not have a fall back position when the 
S/N ratio was too low, )which is much of the time on HF). Although SCAMP 
used the RDFT protocol, the digital SSTV operators seem to have better 
performance with QAM types of OFDM and have moved in that direction.

I often wonder if there is even one ham working on adapting the existing 
ham DRM type protocol to a pipelined ARQ connected mode that has 
adaptability to conditions. This way, you don't have to reinvent the 
wheel since most of the spokes are already in place.

You couple Rick, KN6KB's pipelined ARQ and busy channel detect, with ham 
DRM, and make it adaptable and I think this would be quite an impressive 
achievement, especially if it was open source and moved to cross 
platform use for real world interoperability.

Even though Q15X25 looked like a good protocol, it did not seem to work 
for those who tried it. Does it actually have a 2300 baud speed? Or is 
this a typo?

I don't see any patent infringement issues at all providing you are not 
trying to duplicate an existing proprietary mode. The reason that 
Kantronics and AEA/Timewave did not progress is because they would have 
had to develop new ARQ protocols to compete with Clover II and Pactor 
modes. Even with Pactor 1, they could not match the proprietary product 
from SCS and SCS and HAL would not cross license their products, 
insuring small niche markets. The world is moving toward FOSS whether 
some like to admit it or not. If Microsoft really is able to make it 
impractical for theft of their new Vista OS, many users who are now 
using illegal copies will be moving toward Linux OS in rather large 
numbers. Some areas in recent days are doing that right now and I think 
we can see that this will increase the movement toward FOSS.

73,

Rick, KV9U



Jose A. Amador wrote:

>The efforts I am seeing might indicate that we are attempting to bite a 
>bit too large
>
>On one side, the reports that Q15X25 works better at 2300 baud, and that
>the 100 baud packet mode incorporated into MultiPSK works when 300 baud 
>does not looks like a hint to go at lower speeds and bandwidths, and at 
>least match the expected thrup

[digitalradio] Re: Pactor versus Olivia

[Demetre SV1UY]

--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "DuBose Walt Civ AETC CONS/LGCA"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Again, may I inject my 2 cents worth.
> 
> SCS says that Pactor III is 4 times faster than Pactor II and the
code would indicate such.  Thus the raw channel throughput IS faster
and the BER should be better.  But as far as performance goes at
varying SNRs will make a difference in throughput.
> 
> At a -5 dB SNR on the KC7WW channel simulator KN6KB measured the
throughput of Pactor I/II/II as about the same. At a + 10 dB SNR, the
maximum throughput of Pactor I was measured as ~ 100 NetBytes/minute.
Pactor II measures as ~3000 NetBytes/minute and Pactor III measures as
~11,000 NetBytes/minutealmost 4 times that of Pactor II.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Walt/K5YFW

Hi Walt,

Thanks for reply. As I understand it if I need the speed it is a very
good idea to upgrade to PACTOR III. I have PACTOR I and II at the
moment and I am very happy with it. If the measurements are also true
in real conditions too, then perhaps it is a good idea to upgrade to
PACTOR III since when conditions are good the 4 times increase is
great and one would hold an HF channel busy for shorter periods.

73 de Demetre SV1UY

RE: [digitalradio] Odd PC Issue

[DuBose Walt Civ AETC CONS/LGCA]

SVCHOST (svchost.exe) IS a dog and CAN eat up performance on such a short 
term/time basis that it will never show up in your task manager and perhaps not 
even as a spike on you CPU performance.
 
The other possibility is that something is running in the background (a ham 
radio program that you don't have running on other computers) that has not 
totally closed down.  
 
Go to your task manager and  control panel > services and kill/stop all 
un-needed programs/services and see if the problem goes away.
 
73,
 
Walt/K5YFW

-Original Message-
From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of ve3fwf
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 6:36 AM
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Odd PC Issue


Hummm:
 
Very interesting and here is a list of suggestions and questions:
 
1. What OS are you using and what browser?
2. How you tried FireFox or another Web browser?
3. Crack open the taskmanager and see what process (if any) is burning the CPU 
when you are experiencing the problem. If there is lots of CPU and no one 
process hogging the CPU, perhaps you have RF entering the CPU by the keyboard 
cable? Are your transmitting when you have the problem? Perhaps you have an 
automatic BBS that fires up and RF is getting into your system?
4. On Windows XP SP2, I've seen the process SVCHOST go into a tight loop when 
running IE 7. The problem does not occur when using FireFox.
5. Try another keyboard as per Dave's suggestion.
 
73, Bernie, Ottawa, Canada.
 

- Original Message - 
From: Dave   Corio 
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 8:40 PM
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Odd PC Issue


That is odd, Andy! Here are my thoughts

Have you checked for an IRQ conflict with the keyboard? Is the keyboard 
wireless? Have you tried a different keyboard on that PC?

Does the problem show up in all web-based situations, such as filling in 
forms, or only when posting to a forum where there is much more typing? Have 
you peeked at the performance monitor while typing to see if that is maxing out?

I sure don't have the answers, and I'm not an expert (ask the XYL!!) but 
these are what I would look at.

73
Dave
KB3MOW


Andrew O'Brien wrote: 


I have typed this message twice, once in original format (see below)
and once with a corrected format so that you could actually
understand what I am typing. I posted it to a PC forum but received no
answers, hopefully someone here has some ideas.

For the past month or I have been having a problem with web based
email, mostly to this and other Yahoo groups, also with Gmail
postings. When I type the messages , many of the characters that I
type do not make it to the screen. There is a significant lag, at
times, but unlike typical lags caused by a slow Internet connection,
sometimes whole words never make it to the screen! I thought it
might be due to lack of RAM and upgraded this 2.6 gHz CPU PC to one
with 512 MG of RAM. it did not solve the problem. I am using a
cable modem with good speed. The problem NEVER occurred when typing
email or using Outlook, or when composing items in Word. ONLY when
typing in to web based applications. I have run spyware and virus
checking software numerous time. There are periods that the problems
goes away, sometimes for a day at a time .

I have three other PC's in the house, two better performing PCs, and
one an old 1.1 CPU with 256 of RAM, the problem never occurs on the
other PCs. Since it is happening on the PC that I use for ham
operations , I would like to find a fix for this issue .In general,
the PC performs OK otherwise but does seem slower than one would
expect, the CPU often shows as being 100% in use. Not always though.
While typing this message, the CPU has not gone above 50%.

Here is what the above message looked like before I fixed it for
missing characters.

For the past month or I have been having a problem with web
basdemail, mostly to this nother Yahoo groups, also with Gmail
postings. When I typ the messages , many of the chrcters that I type
o not make it to the screen. There is a signific lag, at times, but
unlike stypical lags caused by a slow Iternet connection, sometimes
whole words evr make it to the scren! I thought it might be due to
lack of RAM and upgraded this 2.6 gHz CPU PC to one with 512 MG of
RAM. is did not solve the probm. I a using a cable modem with
gspeed. The prolem NEVER occu when typingemail ugOutlook o when
compsing items in Word OLY when typing in to wb based applicatns.
I have run yware and vrus checkingsftware numerous time. There are
periods ta the problems goes away, sometimes or a day at a time .

I hethree othe PC's in the hos, two better performing PCs and one an
old 1.1 CPUth 256 of RAM, the problem nver occurs on the othePCs.
Since it is happening o the PC that I usef ham operati, I would like
to fid a fix for this issue.In general, the PC performs OK otherwise
but does see

Re: [digitalradio] Re: Pactor versus Olivia

[kd4e]

> SCS says that Pactor III is 4 times faster than Pactor II and the
> code would indicate such.  Thus the raw channel throughput IS faster
> and the BER should be better.  But as far as performance goes at
> varying SNRs will make a difference in throughput. At a -5 dB SNR on
> the KC7WW channel simulator KN6KB measured the throughput of Pactor
> I/II/II as about the same. At a + 10 dB SNR, the maximum throughput
> of Pactor I was measured as ~ 100 NetBytes/minute. Pactor II measures
> as ~3000 NetBytes/minute and Pactor III measures as ~11,000
> NetBytes/minutealmost 4 times that of Pactor 73, Walt/K5YFW

Do I correctly read this to mean that at high-noise
low-signal strength conditions Pactor I, II, & III
are equal?

Does that mean that the non-proprietary Pactor I
that runs on a sound card is just as good as the
proprietary and unaccountable Pactor II & III
under rough conditions?

-- 

Thanks! & 73, doc, KD4E
~~
Projects: http://ham-macguyver.bibleseven.com
Personal: http://bibleseven.com
~~

[digitalradio] Re: Movement toward open digital software?

[cesco12342000]

> I often wonder if there is even one ham working on adapting
> the existing 
> ham DRM type protocol to a pipelined ARQ connected mode that has 
> adaptability to conditions. 


I think no.

The main problem of arq-drm is the very long turnaround time. 
It's in the 20sec range. This makes "normal" arq like in pskmail or 
packet a very lame thing.

The only work-around is the thing digital sstv does. keep the number 
of arq cycles as low as possible.

This is done by sending out all data at once (20kb or more), and then 
getting the not-ack's (there are no ack's) for all the lost segments 
(packets, 400ms data chunks) at once. 

This does work very well for large amounts of data, but is not good 
for small (less 5k) data transfers.

Re: [digitalradio] Movement toward open digital software?

[o.]

Dear Rick;

I am trying to go into LINUX. I very well understand your idea of using a cross 
platform interoperability. For the past weeks I have been following all 
LINUX-related subjects on this site. I have discovered that there are so many 
LINUX versions. Now a question arises here. Is any application written for one 
LINUX version capable of operating with another LINUX version? 15 years ago, I 
used to be a UNIX man. I never liked or used WINDOWS until I was forced to do 
so by the availabilty of applications. Since then I have discovered that I was 
right about not liking WINDOWS. It is not stable and it has so many flaws. 

UNIX was quite different. But a twist by manufacturers made UNIX not exactly a 
cross platform interoperable system. Every comany had its own UNIX. And one had 
to work a lot to make a certain applicaion written under one version of UNIX, 
operate under another version by another manufacturer.

So I go back to my main question. Is any application written for one LINUX 
version capable of operating with another LINUX version?

Best 73

Omar YK1AO


  - Original Message - 
  From: KV9U 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 5:43 PM
  Subject: [digitalradio] Movement toward open digital software?


  I am a big proponent of cross platform interoperability and I am tending 
  to continue moving away from anything that tends to not be cross 
  platform. My Firefox web browser, Open Office suite, XnView photo 
  viewing (and others), the free version of the excellent AVG Virus 
  protection which is also available for Linux, etc. The one area that 
  suffers the most is ironically amateur radio programs, particularly 
  digital amateur radio programs since there do not seem to be many cross 
  platform at this time. Any time you have cross platform programs, there 
  is much more chance that the product has increased viability. And with 
  digital modes, it is even more significant. A good example would be the 
  use of an ARQ PSK63 mode as used in PSKmail if it had cross platform 
  capability. But if you have no one to talk to, you are not going to be 
  using such a mode as it needs a certain number of users to reach a 
  critical mass.

  There is no reason that we can not have a memory ARQ mode for 
  keyboarding or even faster purposes. The main limitation will be a 
  noticeable latency, but that would depend upon how much time you want to 
  leave for the behind the scenes pipelining. This has already been 
  invented and tried and it works well but the inventor has not released 
  anything to the open source community at this time. What would need to 
  be done is to have this kind of ARQ mode, not only work at high speeds 
  (which it already did), but also work like the proprietary 
  hardware/software modes and have a fall back position as signals weaken 
  or are affected by interference. Thus far, the hams that write digital 
  software are just not interested in doing this. The non response to 
  Jose's comments also shows that almost no digital hams are interested in 
  this either.

  After all these years, and with all the work that so many have done 
  voluntarily to produce some non-ARQ but excellent keyboard digital 
  modes, it has not yet lead to anything open source that can compete with 
  the closed proprietary equipment/software for high speed digital. I 
  consider that unfortunate.

  The one exception may be the digital SSTV folks who have developed modes 
  that can get quite a bit of data through in a short time. You have to in 
  order to send pictures with no errors. They even have a crude form of 
  "after the fact" ARQ to provide fills to receiving stations that may 
  have missed certain blocks of data. This permits a one to many 
  transmission. Last night I was receiving digital SSTV pictures on the 75 
  meter frequency but the band was fairly quiet with good S/N ratio.

  Several years ago, a protocol being used by digital SSTV operators was 
  adapted as a connected mode with the SCAMP program. Phenomenal success 
  at high text data rates, but requiring good conditions of around 10 db 
  S/N ratio or better. It just did not have a fall back position when the 
  S/N ratio was too low, )which is much of the time on HF). Although SCAMP 
  used the RDFT protocol, the digital SSTV operators seem to have better 
  performance with QAM types of OFDM and have moved in that direction.

  I often wonder if there is even one ham working on adapting the existing 
  ham DRM type protocol to a pipelined ARQ connected mode that has 
  adaptability to conditions. This way, you don't have to reinvent the 
  wheel since most of the spokes are already in place.

  You couple Rick, KN6KB's pipelined ARQ and busy channel detect, with ham 
  DRM, and make it adaptable and I think this would be quite an impressive 
  achievement, especially if it was open source and moved to cross 
  platform use for real world interoperabi

RE: [digitalradio] Re: Pactor versus Olivia

[DuBose Walt Civ AETC CONS/LGCA]

Demetre, 

Correction
SCS says..."On an average channel, PACTOR-III is around 3.5 times faster than 
PACTOR-II. On good channels, the effective throughput ratio between PACTOR-III 
and PACTOR-II can exceed 5. PACTOR-III achieves slightly higher robustness at 
the low SNR edge compared to PACTOR-II."

The URL to look at is http://www.scs-ptc.com/pactor.html and
http://www.scs-ptc.com/download/PACTOR-III-Protocol.pdf

Pactor III has several things going for it but also makes some considerations 
to be compatible with Pactor II and I that degrade the potential performance of 
Pactor III.

Note in KN6KB's chart. The HF channel simulator used by KN6KB was the KC7WW 
Real-Time CCIR-520 Compliant HF Channel Simulator 
(http://www.johanforrer.net/simulr.htm).

   Simulated conditions includes several modes: 
pass through, 
flat fading, 
multipath

   For flat fading and multipath conditions, the Watterson model for simulating 
ionospheric
   effects is applied. This effectively simulates the compounded effects on 
several incident 
   rays (typically two) due to influence of Earth's magnetic field, refraction 
in the ionosphere, 
   and the dynamic motion of the ionosphere (Doppler). This results in the 
production of realistic 
   amplitude fading and phasing effects with controlled statistical properties. 

   Behavior of the model is controlled by user-supplied parameters for 
operating mode, fading 
   rate, Doppler bandwidth. In addition, any level of Gaussian noise may be 
specified to achieve 
   a particular signal to noise ratio (SNR). 

The figures in KN6KBs chart are an average of White Gaussian Noise, Multi-path 
Good (conditions), Multi-path (poor conditions) and Flat Fading.  Again, note 
that above -5 dB SNR, the only difference that KN6KB shows is a change in 
throughput.  The BER is not addressed.

To achieve the higher thoughput of Pactor III, the number of tones 
(carriers/sub-carriers) is increased at the expense of a wider bandwidth...500 
Hz for Pactor II and a maximum occupied bandwidth: 2.4 kHz @ -40 dB, audio 
passband: 400-2600 Hz (at Speed Level 6).

SCS's use of Huffman and pseudo Markov coding (can be considered as double 
Huffman coding) is interesting and may be something that other coders may want 
to look at.

Additionally the use of CCIR-CRC16 is nice.

While ARQ is nice, it does have a transmission distance limit of 40,000 km.  
However for most, this is not a problem unless you are primarily going to use 
the mode for short haul NVIS operation...even at the 20,000 km ARQ setting.

Perhaps the inclusion of a pilot tone(s) and  tones with some other form fix 
modulation would have made the mode better.  Also, IMHO the frame format is 
mode complicated that it needs to be.  However, the adaptive qualities of the 
mode make it valuable.

The use of DQPSK in speed levels 6, 5, 4 are questionable in that for QPSK 
modulation, you have a -3 dB loss...so the question is do you gain more using 
QPSK or not?  Would have adding more DBPSK tones and a doppler tone proved 
better.

And it goes without saying that using a real Viterbi decoder with soft decision 
provides a good coding gain.

The features of Pactor III are the results of the cooperative and concerted 
efforts of several individuals who were not simply writing code to see what 
they could come up with.  Rather they had a specific goal or set of 
speculations to work toward.  The combination of cooperative effort and 
specific outcome goals has made Pactor III a very successful HF data 
transmission protocol.

With the opensource soundcard protocols commonly referred to on this list, it 
is a shame that there is not more cooperative and collaborative coding efforts 
and a consensus of what outcome specifications hams are looking for in an HF 
data modem.

73,

Walt/K5YFW



-Original Message-
From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Demetre SV1UY
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:44 AM
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Pactor versus Olivia


--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "DuBose Walt Civ AETC CONS/LGCA"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Again, may I inject my 2 cents worth.
> 
> SCS says that Pactor III is 4 times faster than Pactor II and the
code would indicate such.  Thus the raw channel throughput IS faster
and the BER should be better.  But as far as performance goes at
varying SNRs will make a difference in throughput.
> 
> At a -5 dB SNR on the KC7WW channel simulator KN6KB measured the
throughput of Pactor I/II/II as about the same. At a + 10 dB SNR, the
maximum throughput of Pactor I was measured as ~ 100 NetBytes/minute.
Pactor II measures as ~3000 NetBytes/minute and Pactor III measures as
~11,000 NetBytes/minutealmost 4 times that of Pactor II.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Walt/K5YFW

Hi Walt,

Thanks for reply. As I understand it if I need the speed it is a very
good idea to upgrade to PACTOR III. I have PACTOR I and II at the
moment

Re: [digitalradio] Movement toward open digital software?

[kd4e]

> So I go back to my main question. Is any application written for one 
> LINUX version capable of operating with another LINUX version?
> Best 73 Omar YK1AO

Most Linux apps are compatible across most other
Linux distros.

The challenges are three:

1.  Dependencies upon other apps.

2.  The version of the Linux kernel used.

3.  Unique directory/folder locations used such
that a distro may have to redirect or
link from what the app expects to what
they use for a directory/folder structure.

I am very fond of Puppy Linux, especially the just
released v 2.13  It is tiny, fast, and powerful.

-- 

Thanks! & 73, doc, KD4E
~~
Projects: http://ham-macguyver.bibleseven.com
Personal: http://bibleseven.com
~~

RE: [digitalradio] Re: Pactor versus Olivia

[DuBose Walt Civ AETC CONS/LGCA]

If you looked at the PDF document of KN6KB's measurements, that is what is 
showes.

The only difference between Pactor I, II and III is the throughput 
(NetByte/minute) at various SNRs.

I can only assume that the BER or percent of errors ( zero errors?) was also 
the same.

PIII+10 dB SNR  +5 dB SNR   0 dB SNR
-5 dB SNR
Throughput  11,500 NB/min   9,000 NB/min4,000 NB/min200-300 NB/min
PII
Throughput  3,200 NB/min2,500 NB/min1,800 NB/min200-300 NB/min
PI
Throughput   900 NB/min  900 NB/min  600 NB/min 
100 NB/min

All these are what I see on KN6KB's chart.

At each of the above SNRs the Pactor mode has a shown throughput.

If need 9,000 NB/min at a +5 dB SNR, then you need Pactor III.  But if you only 
need a maximum throughput of 800 NB/min at +5 dB SNR, then you only need Pactor 
I.

Walt/K5YFW

-Original Message-
From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of kd4e
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:44 AM
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: Pactor versus Olivia


> SCS says that Pactor III is 4 times faster than Pactor II and the
> code would indicate such.  Thus the raw channel throughput IS faster
> and the BER should be better.  But as far as performance goes at
> varying SNRs will make a difference in throughput. At a -5 dB SNR on
> the KC7WW channel simulator KN6KB measured the throughput of Pactor
> I/II/II as about the same. At a + 10 dB SNR, the maximum throughput
> of Pactor I was measured as ~ 100 NetBytes/minute. Pactor II measures
> as ~3000 NetBytes/minute and Pactor III measures as ~11,000
> NetBytes/minutealmost 4 times that of Pactor 73, Walt/K5YFW

Do I correctly read this to mean that at high-noise
low-signal strength conditions Pactor I, II, & III
are equal?

Does that mean that the non-proprietary Pactor I
that runs on a sound card is just as good as the
proprietary and unaccountable Pactor II & III
under rough conditions?

-- 

Thanks! & 73, doc, KD4E
~~
Projects: http://ham-macguyver.bibleseven.com
Personal: http://bibleseven.com
~~



Announce your digital  presence via our DX Cluster telnet://cluster.dynalias.org

Our other groups:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dxlist/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contesting
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wnyar
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Omnibus97 

 
Yahoo! Groups Links

[digitalradio] donwnload software for 070 club pskfest

[EA4ZB]

Hey all:

alternative site for download software Contact Psk 4.5 (english and spanish
version) here:
http://www.ea4zb.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=41


http://www.ea1cui.com/contact-pskV4.5.zip.

--
73 de Joaquin, EA4ZB

Re: [digitalradio] Odd PC Issue

[Jose A. Amador]

DuBose Walt Civ AETC CONS/LGCA wrote:

>  SVCHOST (svchost.exe) IS a dog and CAN eat up performance on such a
>  short term/time basis that it will never show up in your task manager
>  and perhaps not even as a spike on you CPU performance.
>
>  The other possibility is that something is running in the background
>  (a ham radio program that you don't have running on other computers)
>  that has not totally closed down.
>
>  Go to your task manager and control panel > services and kill/stop
>  all un-needed programs/services and see if the problem goes away.
>
>  73,
>
>  Walt/K5YFW

This is an old doubtwhat does SVCHOST do? What is it good for to 
have running on a
Windows PC?

I usually see SEVERAL instances simultaneously on the task manager.

Jose, CO2JA

[digitalradio] Print email

[n0ziz]

I can not print email messages from Earthlink Web mail.
Iclick the prinable view link and printable message comesup
There is to printer Icon. I need a software "Read messagetoolbar"
where can i find tis?
Dan N0ZIZ?

Re: [digitalradio] Odd PC Issue

[Robert Chudek - KØRC]

Jose, 


Here's a full technical description about this executable and its tasks: 
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314056

73 de Bob - KØRC in MN



  - Original Message - 
  From: Jose A. Amador 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 1:30 PM
  Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Odd PC Issue


  DuBose Walt Civ AETC CONS/LGCA wrote:

  > SVCHOST (svchost.exe) IS a dog and CAN eat up performance on such a
  > short term/time basis that it will never show up in your task manager
  > and perhaps not even as a spike on you CPU performance.
  >
  > The other possibility is that something is running in the background
  > (a ham radio program that you don't have running on other computers)
  > that has not totally closed down.
  >
  > Go to your task manager and control panel > services and kill/stop
  > all un-needed programs/services and see if the problem goes away.
  >
  > 73,
  >
  > Walt/K5YFW

  This is an old doubtwhat does SVCHOST do? What is it good for to 
  have running on a
  Windows PC?

  I usually see SEVERAL instances simultaneously on the task manager.

  Jose, CO2JA



   

Re: [digitalradio] Movement toward open digital software?

[KV9U]

Hi Omar,

Windows has improved greatly with the XP version, but my preference 
would be an open product for the world rather than a proprietary 
product. The MS Vista version(s) looks as if there will be very little 
improvement although some in the security area as some operations may 
keep a separate root superuser as Linux and Unix have always done.

My main criticism of Linux is that is has horrific fonts that are not 
comparable to Windows fonts and the Linux folks try and make believe 
that this is not a problem when it is a really serious problem for any 
demonstrations with a Live disk, etc. to people who use computers for 
practical work requiring high quality font display. 

I understand that it is possible to import the Windows fonts after you 
have loaded Linux although you really should own a copy of Windows OS to 
make that legal. I have tried many versions of Linux over the years and 
even had a two computer system for a while using a KVM switch. But I 
never tried importing the superior Windows fonts and lately have only 
been trying different live distros, none of which have had quality fonts 
and none of which can support my 22" widescreen monitor:(

One of the other downsides to Linux is having literally hundreds, if not 
thousands, of "versions." They call them distros, which is short for 
distributions, since it is packaging up various parts of the GNU/Linux 
OS and selecting certain packages to include as well as the windowing 
interface. Not only because it is so confusing for anyone interested in 
running Linux OS, but because it means that untold hours of work go into 
non-productive results:( Imagine if the energies and clever programming 
and packing would be focused on just a few versions!!

Having said that, the Linux kernel is quite similar for all the versions 
of a similar date and so are the programs and Gnu libraries, etc, so the 
versions are much more similar than they are different. I wish we had 
one "amateur radio" version of Linux we could all agree on, but this is 
probably wishful thinking.

The one thing that tends to separate the Linux versions is the 
packagement management for the programs. The most common are the RPM 
(Redhat Package Manager) and the DEB (Debian) packages. I lean more 
toward .deb due to certain characteristics where it is suppposed to be 
able to bring in all dependencies when you bring in a program from a 
depository. The depositories are maintained for many different distros 
and some have many thousands. Of course, many programs are included on 
the disk(s) you download or buy, but not so much for amateur radio:(

If you have a distro based upon a particular packaging scheme, you 
probably can use that package directly. Here is a partial list:

- Debian (.deb) based Freespire (the open and free version of Linspire), 
Knoppix, Xandros, Ubuntu (most popular distro because of promotion and 
subsidy by a multi millionaire), and Mepis.

- Redhat (rpm) based CentOS, Fedora, PCLinuxOS

- Slackware based Vector Linux (for low end machines)

There are others, but quite honestly most seem to be the niche versions.

Programs written for KDE (the Kool Desktop Environment most similar to 
MS Windows) or GNOME (the other main desktop environment which is more 
similar to the MAC), can work on either desktop. I understand that you 
can convert rpm packages to deb so that should help expand the choices.

The main issue is bringing in the program you want, installing it, and 
insuring that any dependencies, such as other libraries or other 
programs are present that are needed to run the new program. Often it is 
much easier than MS OS if it is a common program already compiled in a 
depository. A simple command and it takes care of the whole thing with 
an internet download either through its own depository, or outside 
depositories known as the multiverse. Worst case situation would be to 
take the source code and compile it for your distro. I have never done 
it but I am sure many on this group have done it.

The most surprising thing to me is this: the hams who are most oriented 
toward what I consider to be the adventure of ham radio (experimenting, 
trying new things, etc.), are also the hams who are moving toward Linux 
OS. It also appears that this could be drastically accelerated in the 
coming years.

73,

Rick, KV9U








o. wrote:

>Dear Rick;
>
>I am trying to go into LINUX. I very well understand your idea of using a 
>cross platform interoperability. For the past weeks I have been following all 
>LINUX-related subjects on this site. I have discovered that there are so many 
>LINUX versions. Now a question arises here. Is any application written for one 
>LINUX version capable of operating with another LINUX version? 15 years ago, I 
>used to be a UNIX man. I never liked or used WINDOWS until I was forced to do 
>so by the availabilty of applications. Since then I have discovered that I was 
>right about not liking WINDOWS. It is not stable

Re: [digitalradio] Odd PC Issue

[Jose A. Amador]

Robert Chudek - KØRC wrote:

>  Jose,
>
>  Here's a full technical description about this executable and its
>  tasks: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314056
>  
>
>  73 de Bob - KØRC in MN

Thank you Bob. I followed the URL and now I see

73, Jose

Re: [digitalradio] Re: Pactor versus Olivia

[KV9U]

While this information does not seem to support the SCS claim of working 
way down to the minus teens of db S/N, it is interesting that in the 
"old days" Pactor 1 users claimed that they could get throughput when 
they could not even hear any suggestion of modulation.

I never found this to be true,  but then I never had any SCS products 
either. Having an SCS Pactor 1 modem on each end of a connection was 
supposed to work much better than with mixed or other brands of modems. 
Particularly because of the ability to do memory ARQ.

One thing that seems to escape Pactor 3 users, is that even though it 
might work 3 to 5 times faster than Pactor 2, the bandwidth is about 4 
or 5 times wider so there is no real benefit if you are comparing 
occupied space to bandwidth.

Sharing a finite and non-channelized service such as we radio amateurs 
use, having many small bandwidth users means more throughput for more 
users than one large bandwidth user at a time.

73,

Rick, KV9U





DuBose Walt Civ AETC CONS/LGCA wrote:

>If you looked at the PDF document of KN6KB's measurements, that is what is 
>showes.
>
>The only difference between Pactor I, II and III is the throughput 
>(NetByte/minute) at various SNRs.
>
>I can only assume that the BER or percent of errors ( zero errors?) was also 
>the same.
>
>PIII   +10 dB SNR  +5 dB SNR   0 dB SNR
>-5 dB SNR
>Throughput 11,500 NB/min   9,000 NB/min4,000 NB/min200-300 NB/min
>PII
>Throughput 3,200 NB/min2,500 NB/min1,800 NB/min200-300 NB/min
>PI
>Throughput  900 NB/min  900 NB/min  600 NB/min 
>100 NB/min
>
>All these are what I see on KN6KB's chart.
>
>At each of the above SNRs the Pactor mode has a shown throughput.
>
>If need 9,000 NB/min at a +5 dB SNR, then you need Pactor III.  But if you 
>only need a maximum throughput of 800 NB/min at +5 dB SNR, then you only need 
>Pactor I.
>
>Walt/K5YFW
>
>  
>

Re: [digitalradio] Movement toward open digital software?

[Salomao Fresco]

Hi

That's my thought too!

If the time and energy used on the development of the many version available
were directed to only a few distro's, and make them more user friendly, i'm
sure that everybody would benefit from it and more and more people migrate
towards Linux.
It certainly would help to have Ham software that anyone with little
knowledge of Linux could install.


Regards

Sal
CT2IRJ


On 1/11/07, KV9U <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Hi Omar,

Windows has improved greatly with the XP version, but my preference
would be an open product for the world rather than a proprietary
product. The MS Vista version(s) looks as if there will be very little
improvement although some in the security area as some operations may
keep a separate root superuser as Linux and Unix have always done.

My main criticism of Linux is that is has horrific fonts that are not
comparable to Windows fonts and the Linux folks try and make believe
that this is not a problem when it is a really serious problem for any
demonstrations with a Live disk, etc. to people who use computers for
practical work requiring high quality font display.

I understand that it is possible to import the Windows fonts after you
have loaded Linux although you really should own a copy of Windows OS to
make that legal. I have tried many versions of Linux over the years and
even had a two computer system for a while using a KVM switch. But I
never tried importing the superior Windows fonts and lately have only
been trying different live distros, none of which have had quality fonts
and none of which can support my 22" widescreen monitor:(

One of the other downsides to Linux is having literally hundreds, if not
thousands, of "versions." They call them distros, which is short for
distributions, since it is packaging up various parts of the GNU/Linux
OS and selecting certain packages to include as well as the windowing
interface. Not only because it is so confusing for anyone interested in
running Linux OS, but because it means that untold hours of work go into
non-productive results:( Imagine if the energies and clever programming
and packing would be focused on just a few versions!!

Having said that, the Linux kernel is quite similar for all the versions
of a similar date and so are the programs and Gnu libraries, etc, so the
versions are much more similar than they are different. I wish we had
one "amateur radio" version of Linux we could all agree on, but this is
probably wishful thinking.

The one thing that tends to separate the Linux versions is the
packagement management for the programs. The most common are the RPM
(Redhat Package Manager) and the DEB (Debian) packages. I lean more
toward .deb due to certain characteristics where it is suppposed to be
able to bring in all dependencies when you bring in a program from a
depository. The depositories are maintained for many different distros
and some have many thousands. Of course, many programs are included on
the disk(s) you download or buy, but not so much for amateur radio:(

If you have a distro based upon a particular packaging scheme, you
probably can use that package directly. Here is a partial list:

- Debian (.deb) based Freespire (the open and free version of Linspire),
Knoppix, Xandros, Ubuntu (most popular distro because of promotion and
subsidy by a multi millionaire), and Mepis.

- Redhat (rpm) based CentOS, Fedora, PCLinuxOS

- Slackware based Vector Linux (for low end machines)

There are others, but quite honestly most seem to be the niche versions.

Programs written for KDE (the Kool Desktop Environment most similar to
MS Windows) or GNOME (the other main desktop environment which is more
similar to the MAC), can work on either desktop. I understand that you
can convert rpm packages to deb so that should help expand the choices.

The main issue is bringing in the program you want, installing it, and
insuring that any dependencies, such as other libraries or other
programs are present that are needed to run the new program. Often it is
much easier than MS OS if it is a common program already compiled in a
depository. A simple command and it takes care of the whole thing with
an internet download either through its own depository, or outside
depositories known as the multiverse. Worst case situation would be to
take the source code and compile it for your distro. I have never done
it but I am sure many on this group have done it.

The most surprising thing to me is this: the hams who are most oriented
toward what I consider to be the adventure of ham radio (experimenting,
trying new things, etc.), are also the hams who are moving toward Linux
OS. It also appears that this could be drastically accelerated in the
coming years.

73,

Rick, KV9U








o. wrote:

>Dear Rick;
>
>I am trying to go into LINUX. I very well understand your idea of using a
cross platform interoperability. For the past weeks I have been following
all LINUX-related subjects on this site. I have discovered that t

Re: [digitalradio] Movement toward open digital software?

[Ing. Nestor Alonso Torres]

Salomao Fresco wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi
>  
> That's my thought too!
>  
> If the time and energy used on the development of the many version 
> available were directed to only a few distro's, and make them more user 
> friendly, i'm sure that everybody would benefit from it and more and 
> more people migrate towards Linux.

Well, if someone doesn't like so many flavors... still could use BSD... 
just 4 flavors... and the same applications.

Greetings,

73 de CM3NA

RE: [digitalradio] Re: Pactor versus Olivia

[DuBose Walt Civ AETC CONS/LGCA]

Well I can't hear a CW signal at a -5 dB SNR.  Can you?  But I don't think  
minus teens...but that is what some of the newer PSK modes claim.

The only thing that will really kill or stop Pactor is excessive amounts of 
doppler or until the detector can no longer decode the signal.

You are actually making a case for RF footprinting.  You want to see what the 
throughput is for bandwidth unit.  We could measure it in Hz or KHz.   20 cps 
at 1 KHz is .04 cps/Hz (MT63-1K RAW).   5 cps at 100 Hz is also 4.5 cps is 
.05625 cps/Hz (PSK31).  But when decoded, MT63 is almost 100% error free and 
PSK31 can have up to 10% errors.

So it not all just about throughput, its about the overall robustness of the 
mode to include your requirement for how much error free copy you want.  You 
are going to get many few errors with Pactor III than PSK31.  If you used ARQ 
and something else to to the the BER of PACTOR III, you might find that the 
throughput was less than 5 cps.

Walt/K5YFW  

-Original Message-
From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of KV9U
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 2:31 PM
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: Pactor versus Olivia


While this information does not seem to support the SCS claim of working 
way down to the minus teens of db S/N, it is interesting that in the 
"old days" Pactor 1 users claimed that they could get throughput when 
they could not even hear any suggestion of modulation.

I never found this to be true,  but then I never had any SCS products 
either. Having an SCS Pactor 1 modem on each end of a connection was 
supposed to work much better than with mixed or other brands of modems. 
Particularly because of the ability to do memory ARQ.

One thing that seems to escape Pactor 3 users, is that even though it 
might work 3 to 5 times faster than Pactor 2, the bandwidth is about 4 
or 5 times wider so there is no real benefit if you are comparing 
occupied space to bandwidth.

Sharing a finite and non-channelized service such as we radio amateurs 
use, having many small bandwidth users means more throughput for more 
users than one large bandwidth user at a time.

73,

Rick, KV9U





DuBose Walt Civ AETC CONS/LGCA wrote:

>If you looked at the PDF document of KN6KB's measurements, that is what is 
>showes.
>
>The only difference between Pactor I, II and III is the throughput 
>(NetByte/minute) at various SNRs.
>
>I can only assume that the BER or percent of errors ( zero errors?) was also 
>the same.
>
>PIII   +10 dB SNR  +5 dB SNR   0 dB SNR
>-5 dB SNR
>Throughput 11,500 NB/min   9,000 NB/min4,000 NB/min200-300 NB/min
>PII
>Throughput 3,200 NB/min2,500 NB/min1,800 NB/min200-300 NB/min
>PI
>Throughput  900 NB/min  900 NB/min  600 NB/min 
>100 NB/min
>
>All these are what I see on KN6KB's chart.
>
>At each of the above SNRs the Pactor mode has a shown throughput.
>
>If need 9,000 NB/min at a +5 dB SNR, then you need Pactor III.  But if you 
>only need a maximum throughput of 800 NB/min at +5 dB SNR, then you only need 
>Pactor I.
>
>Walt/K5YFW
>
>  
>




Announce your digital  presence via our DX Cluster telnet://cluster.dynalias.org

Our other groups:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dxlist/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contesting
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wnyar
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Omnibus97 

 
Yahoo! Groups Links

RE: [digitalradio] Movement toward open digital software?

[DuBose Walt Civ AETC CONS/LGCA]

IMHO, hams have not said we want "this" distro to support ham radio so we adopt 
it.

SuSe, Mandrake, Debian and a couple of others cater to amateur radio.   My 
personal leaning is toward Debian and it WAS the first Linux distro. to try and 
devote itself to being ham radio friendly.

The real key to a ham radio applications for Linus is to include all the 
required libraries (dependencies) with the release of the installation and 
install the executable and  with all dependencies in a specific location.  So 
then you are back to MS...C:\Program Files\PSK31

But my Linux computer is shared by my family and I don't want them to have 
access to PSK31 so I want to put it in 
my \USR2\k5yfw\digital\psk3 and You might want to put it in 
\URS3\Sal\amateur-radio\digital\psk31.

What Linux does for one think is make you think about what you are doing and 
keep you from becoming an appliance operator?  How many hams really know how to 
program their 2M talkie?

73,

Walt/K5YFW
-Original Message-
From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Salomao 
Fresco
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 2:46 PM
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Movement toward open digital software?


Hi

That's my thought too!

If the time and energy used on the development of the many version available 
were directed to only a few distro's, and make them more user friendly, i'm 
sure that everybody would benefit from it and more and more people migrate 
towards Linux. 
It certainly would help to have Ham software that anyone with little knowledge 
of Linux could install.


Regards

Sal
CT2IRJ

 
On 1/11/07, KV9U <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
Hi Omar,

Windows has improved greatly with the XP version, but my preference
would be an open product for the world rather than a proprietary 
product. The MS Vista version(s) looks as if there will be very little
improvement although some in the security area as some operations may
keep a separate root superuser as Linux and Unix have always done.

My main criticism of Linux is that is has horrific fonts that are not
comparable to Windows fonts and the Linux folks try and make believe
that this is not a problem when it is a really serious problem for any
demonstrations with a Live disk, etc. to people who use computers for
practical work requiring high quality font display.

I understand that it is possible to import the Windows fonts after you
have loaded Linux although you really should own a copy of Windows OS to 
make that legal. I have tried many versions of Linux over the years and
even had a two computer system for a while using a KVM switch. But I
never tried importing the superior Windows fonts and lately have only
been trying different live distros, none of which have had quality fonts
and none of which can support my 22" widescreen monitor:(

One of the other downsides to Linux is having literally hundreds, if not
thousands, of "versions." They call them distros, which is short for
distributions, since it is packaging up various parts of the GNU/Linux
OS and selecting certain packages to include as well as the windowing 
interface. Not only because it is so confusing for anyone interested in
running Linux OS, but because it means that untold hours of work go into
non-productive results:( Imagine if the energies and clever programming 
and packing would be focused on just a few versions!!

Having said that, the Linux kernel is quite similar for all the versions
of a similar date and so are the programs and Gnu libraries, etc, so the
versions are much more similar than they are different. I wish we had 
one "amateur radio" version of Linux we could all agree on, but this is
probably wishful thinking.

The one thing that tends to separate the Linux versions is the
packagement management for the programs. The most common are the RPM 
(Redhat Package Manager) and the DEB (Debian) packages. I lean more
toward .deb due to certain characteristics where it is suppposed to be
able to bring in all dependencies when you bring in a program from a
depository. The depositories are maintained for many different distros
and some have many thousands. Of course, many programs are included on
the disk(s) you download or buy, but not so much for amateur radio:(

If you have a distro based upon a particular packaging scheme, you
probably can use that package directly. Here is a partial list:

- Debian (.deb) based Freespire (the open and free version of Linspire),
Knoppix, Xandros, Ubuntu (most popular distro because of promotion and 
subsidy by a multi millionaire), and Mepis.

- Redhat (rpm) based CentOS, Fedora, PCLinuxOS

- Slackware based Vector Linux (for low end machines)

There are others, but quite honestly most seem to be the niche versions. 

Programs written for KDE (the Kool Desktop Environment most similar to
MS Windows) or GNOME (the other main desktop environment which is more
similar to the MAC), can work on either desktop. I understand that

Re: [digitalradio] Movement toward open digital software?

[Ing. Nestor Alonso Torres]

DuBose Walt Civ AETC CONS/LGCA wrote:

> What Linux does for one think is make you think about what you are doing 
> and keep you from becoming an appliance operator? How many hams really 
> know how to program their 2M talkie?

By the way... Did someone know about any software for 2M equipment 
programming under Linux?

73 de CM3NA

Re: [digitalradio] Odd PC Issue

[Brent Gourley]

Here's an article on ms that explains svchost.
It appears, if you want services to run, you gotta have svchost.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314056

KE4MZ, Brent
Dothan, AL
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.wb4zpi.org

No trees were destroyed in the sending of this contaminant-free message.
However, we do concede a significant number of electrons may have been 
inconvenienced.
- Original Message - 
From: "Jose A. Amador" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Odd PC Issue


> DuBose Walt Civ AETC CONS/LGCA wrote:
>
>>  SVCHOST (svchost.exe) IS a dog and CAN eat up performance on such a
>>  short term/time basis that it will never show up in your task manager
>>  and perhaps not even as a spike on you CPU performance.
>>
>>  The other possibility is that something is running in the background
>>  (a ham radio program that you don't have running on other computers)
>>  that has not totally closed down.
>>
>>  Go to your task manager and control panel > services and kill/stop
>>  all un-needed programs/services and see if the problem goes away.
>>
>>  73,
>>
>>  Walt/K5YFW
>
> This is an old doubtwhat does SVCHOST do? What is it good for to
> have running on a
> Windows PC?
>
> I usually see SEVERAL instances simultaneously on the task manager.
>
> Jose, CO2JA
>
>
>
>
>
> Announce your digital  presence via our DX Cluster 
> telnet://cluster.dynalias.org
>
> Our other groups:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dxlist/
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contesting
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wnyar
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Omnibus97
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 

[digitalradio] Re: Movement toward open digital software?

[jgorman01]

That's my one pet peeve about Linux.  You go looking for a program to
do what you want and find out it is two years old and requires
libraries that have been updated 4 times since then.  Sometimes trying
to find the older libraries is a real challenge.  I would love it if
everyone would store the libraries and programs necessary to install a
program right with the program.

Jim
WA0LYK

--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "DuBose Walt Civ AETC CONS/LGCA"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> IMHO, hams have not said we want "this" distro to support ham radio
so we adopt it.
> 
> SuSe, Mandrake, Debian and a couple of others cater to amateur
radio.   My personal leaning is toward Debian and it WAS the first
Linux distro. to try and devote itself to being ham radio friendly.
> 
> The real key to a ham radio applications for Linus is to include all
the required libraries (dependencies) with the release of the
installation and install the executable and  with all dependencies in
a specific location.  So then you are back to MS...C:\Program Files\PSK31
> 
> But my Linux computer is shared by my family and I don't want them
to have access to PSK31 so I want to put it in 
> my \USR2\k5yfw\digital\psk3 and You might want to put it in
\URS3\Sal\amateur-radio\digital\psk31.
> 
> What Linux does for one think is make you think about what you are
doing and keep you from becoming an appliance operator?  How many hams
really know how to program their 2M talkie?
> 
> 73,
> 
> Walt/K5YFW

Re: [digitalradio] Movement toward open digital software?

[kd4e]

>> What Linux does for one think is make you think about what you are doing 
>> and keep you from becoming an appliance operator? How many hams really 
>> know how to program their 2M talkie?
> 
> By the way... Did someone know about any software for 2M equipment 
> programming under Linux?
> 
> 73 de CM3NA

Depends on the equipment.

I can program my Icom IC-Q7A 2/440 plus some
low-sensitivity freqs on AM-BC and SW from
Linux using TK7.

I have seen some other Linux apps to program
rigs.

I believe that VXU handles the Yaesu FT-817,
FT-857, and FT-897 rigs.  I have the app but
haven't had time to try it on my FT-897D.

-- 

Thanks! & 73, doc, KD4E
~~
Projects: http://ham-macguyver.bibleseven.com
Personal: http://bibleseven.com
Note:  Both down temporarily due to server change.
~~

Re: [digitalradio] Re: Pactor versus Olivia

[KV9U]

I have seen the claim for a good operator able to copy down to about -15 
db S/N for CW operation. Some of  the digital soundcard modes are 
supposed to be able to still have throughput down around -15 depending 
upon other factors such as doppler, ISI, etc.

Using Multipsk, and I don't know how accurate this is, I can at least 
copy down to at least -10 with CW according to the readout display on 
S/N ratio, but even though I am over 60, my hearing is still quite good.

I would not be willing to make too close a comparison between an ARQ and 
non-ARQ mode, but the footprint numbers were posited by Rick, KN6KB in 
his RFfootprints Powerpoint presentation. In comparing different modes, 
he claims that P3 is the superior mode, even to RDFT which he used to 
develop the SCAMP mode.  He uses a spacing of 200 Hz between signals and 
that may or may not be entirely fair since the really narrow modes can 
work a lot closer than that from my experience. He comes up with a 
calculation of KHz-seconds by dividing the bandwidth by the characters 
per second, thus:

MT63   2.2 KHz/20/ch/sec = 110 KHz-sec
PSK31   .25 KHz/4 ch/sec = 62
HF Packet 1.7 KHz/37 ch/sec = 46
Pactor1 .55 KHz/20ch/sec = 28
RDFT2.2 KHz/97 ch/sec = 23
Pactor 2   .7 KHz/50/ch/sec = 14
Pactor 3 2.4KHz/225 ch/sec = 10

Of course this assumes everything is flowing perfectly and under most 
conditions some of the modes will seriously degrade, particularly HF 
Packet. MT-63 and PSK31 would stay at the same rate until they fail to 
get through. At that point, the Pactor modes would have slowed down to a 
fraction of their high speed and their numbers would not look as good. 
Perhaps they would move into the 30 to 60 range?

At only 5 cps for a wide mode like P3 (but narrower at the slower speed 
levels at maybe 2000 Hz including a guard band), that would be 2000/5 = 
400 KHz-sec and be extremely poor. Even at 20 cps, P3 would not have a 
favorable footprint anymore.

By the way, I have often wondered why the B2F binary compression system 
used with the Winlink 2000 system has never been used for nearly a 2:1 
compression for improved throughput. This could be applied to any 
system, including keyboarding.

73,

Rick, KV9U





DuBose Walt Civ AETC CONS/LGCA wrote:

>Well I can't hear a CW signal at a -5 dB SNR.  Can you?  But I don't think  
>minus teens...but that is what some of the newer PSK modes claim.
>
>The only thing that will really kill or stop Pactor is excessive amounts of 
>doppler or until the detector can no longer decode the signal.
>
>You are actually making a case for RF footprinting.  You want to see what the 
>throughput is for bandwidth unit.  We could measure it in Hz or KHz.   20 cps 
>at 1 KHz is .04 cps/Hz (MT63-1K RAW).   5 cps at 100 Hz is also 4.5 cps is 
>.05625 cps/Hz (PSK31).  But when decoded, MT63 is almost 100% error free and 
>PSK31 can have up to 10% errors.
>
>So it not all just about throughput, its about the overall robustness of the 
>mode to include your requirement for how much error free copy you want.  You 
>are going to get many few errors with Pactor III than PSK31.  If you used ARQ 
>and something else to to the the BER of PACTOR III, you might find that the 
>throughput was less than 5 cps.
>
>Walt/K5YFW  
>  
>

Re: [digitalradio] Movement toward open digital software?

[Danny Douglas]

That is one of the reasons I dont get into Linux.  I watched others,
stressed out at school, trying to get systems operational and smoothed out.
We need things to work at college, not there to be fiddled with, because
students have only a certain amount of time to use systems, and expect them
to work - especially in an educational atmosphere.  Yes - Windows has its
problems too, but once we find a solution with one, the rest pretty much
fall into place too.  The other thing has been mentioned - the availability
of user programs.  If it is written to do, it is written for windows, and
once in a while they follow up with a Linux program - but not too often.
Students expect us to always have the newest and bestest, since they are
going onward to jobs, which will need those skills.  Thus, we do have Linux
available, but (maybe) not suprisingly, the majority do not  take the
classes.  Thus also went our Macs.  Just not enough of them wanted to learn
Apple.




Danny Douglas N7DC
ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB all
DX 2-6 years each
.
QSL LOTW-buro- direct
As courtesy I upload to eQSL but if you
use that - also pls upload to LOTW
or hard card.

moderator  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk
- Original Message - 
From: "Ing. Nestor Alonso Torres" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Movement toward open digital software?


> DuBose Walt Civ AETC CONS/LGCA wrote:
>
> > What Linux does for one think is make you think about what you are doing
> > and keep you from becoming an appliance operator? How many hams really
> > know how to program their 2M talkie?
>
> By the way... Did someone know about any software for 2M equipment
> programming under Linux?
>
> 73 de CM3NA
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Announce your digital  presence via our DX Cluster
telnet://cluster.dynalias.org
>
> Our other groups:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dxlist/
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contesting
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wnyar
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Omnibus97
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.9/622 - Release Date: 1/10/2007
2:52 PM
>
>

Re: [digitalradio] Re: Movement toward open digital software?

[KV9U]

How do you determine your specific 20 second turnaround time?

Couldn't it be any reasonable number from say 1 second up to maybe 20 
seconds?

Seems as if the SCAMP protocol was around 12 seconds, but I am not 
certain of that. Then the listening period was for over a half second. 
That is the main thing, having enough turn around time so the computer 
can control the PTT in a timely manner.

When I observe how fast my computer can control my ICOM rig through the 
CI-V, I would have to say that it is quite fast but probably not able to 
key CW.

73,

Rick, KV9U



cesco12342000 wrote:

>>I often wonder if there is even one ham working on adapting
>>the existing 
>>ham DRM type protocol to a pipelined ARQ connected mode that has 
>>adaptability to conditions. 
>>
>>
>
>
>I think no.
>
>The main problem of arq-drm is the very long turnaround time. 
>It's in the 20sec range. This makes "normal" arq like in pskmail or 
>packet a very lame thing.
>
>The only work-around is the thing digital sstv does. keep the number 
>of arq cycles as low as possible.
>
>This is done by sending out all data at once (20kb or more), and then 
>getting the not-ack's (there are no ack's) for all the lost segments 
>(packets, 400ms data chunks) at once. 
>
>This does work very well for large amounts of data, but is not good 
>for small (less 5k) data transfers.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Announce your digital  presence via our DX Cluster 
>telnet://cluster.dynalias.org
>
>Our other groups:
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dxlist/
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contesting
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wnyar
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Omnibus97 
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>

[digitalradio] Re: Movement toward open digital software?

[cesco12342000]

> How do you determine your specific 20 second turnaround time?
> Couldn't it be any reasonable number from say 1 second up to maybe 
20 
> seconds?

The time from start of transmission until receiving the first data 
segment is 10s to 15s. That's the sync-zone, the lead-in.

20 sec is not to be taken pedantically, it may be 15.2135 sec, HI
but the magnitute is NOT in the 2 sec range.

[digitalradio] Re: Movement toward open digital software?

[Dave Bernstein]

re "What Linux does for one think is make you think about what you 
are doing and keep you from becoming an appliance operator?  How many 
hams really know how to program their 2M talkie?"

Using Linux will not teach you to program your 2M talkie, nor will it 
teach you how to create applications that run on Linux. If you want 
to learn to write software, you must crack open a book or three to 
learn the basic principles, and then roll up your sleeves and build 
something using what you've learned. 

MIT has made all of its courseware freely available online via

http://ocw.mit.edu/index.html

For a solid foundation, start with 6.001:

http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Electrical-Engineering-and-Computer-
Science/6-001Spring-2005/CourseHome/index.htm

One of the authors of the textbook used in this course is WA1NSE:

http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html

 73,

  Dave, AA6YQ

   


--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "DuBose Walt Civ AETC CONS/LGCA" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> IMHO, hams have not said we want "this" distro to support ham radio 
so we adopt it.
> 
> SuSe, Mandrake, Debian and a couple of others cater to amateur 
radio.   My personal leaning is toward Debian and it WAS the first 
Linux distro. to try and devote itself to being ham radio friendly.
> 
> The real key to a ham radio applications for Linus is to include 
all the required libraries (dependencies) with the release of the 
installation and install the executable and  with all dependencies in 
a specific location.  So then you are back to MS...C:\Program 
Files\PSK31
> 
> But my Linux computer is shared by my family and I don't want them 
to have access to PSK31 so I want to put it in 
> my \USR2\k5yfw\digital\psk3 and You might want to put it in \URS3
\Sal\amateur-radio\digital\psk31.
> 
> What Linux does for one think is make you think about what you are 
doing and keep you from becoming an appliance operator?  How many 
hams really know how to program their 2M talkie?
> 
> 73,
> 
> Walt/K5YFW

Re: [digitalradio] Movement toward open digital software?

[kd4e]

> My main criticism of Linux is that is has horrific fonts that are not 
> comparable to Windows fonts and the Linux folks try and make believe 
> that this is not a problem when it is a really serious problem for any 
> demonstrations with a Live disk, etc. to people who use computers for 
> practical work requiring high quality font display. 

Have you looked at the newest release from Puppy,
v 2.13?  They made some significant improvements
to the fonts.

Also, for those who want plug-and-play there are a
few Linux distros that will boot and run from a CD
without touching one's HDD.

Puppy will also boot from a floppy then run on a
USB memory stick or CD and I thing a SD card and
may even boot directly from a USB stick.

My goal is to get Puppy to boot from a USB stick
with some Ham and other apps on the stick -- it
is already being done in corporate, small business,
home and hobby venues so I know it can be done.

-- 

Thanks! & 73, doc, KD4E
~~
Projects: http://ham-macguyver.bibleseven.com
Personal: http://bibleseven.com
Note:  Both down temporarily due to server change.
~~

Re: [digitalradio] New software available for next 070 Club PSKFEST

[Salomao Fresco]

Ok! Obrigado!

Já descobri o link correcto e já descarreguei!

Um abraço


On 1/11/07, CT2HKY do Gmail <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


 ´73's.

Colega Salomão e outros, se forem a este link:  http://www.ea1cui.com/ tem
lá o acesso para descarregar o programa.

Também o podem fazer em: ftp://ct2hky.no-ip.biz secção/directório PSK

Continuação de muitos e bons contactos.

Luis Cavaleiro
   CT2HKY


- Original Message -
 *From:* Salomao Fresco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
*To:* digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 10, 2007 8:43 PM
*Subject:* Re: [digitalradio] New software available for next 070 Club
PSKFEST



!Holá!

Quero experimentar o software, mas para aceder ao sitio pede "password" e
"nome de utilizador".

Se possivel envia por e-mail.

Saludos

Salomão
CT2IRJ


On 1/10/07, EA4ZB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  Hey all!
>
> New software is available for next 070 CLUB PSKFEST. The author is
> Juanma EA1CUI.
>
>
> Hello
>
>
>
> Under date of today, I send you a link for the unloading of Psk's
> program.
>
>
>
> The Program is named *Conatct Psk *and this prepared to calculate the
> contest 070 Club PskFest
>
>
>
> It can be used in Spanish and in English, and he has many advantages.
>
>
>
> The program finds in the following link:
>
>
>
> 
http://www.ea1cui.com/contact-pskV4.5.zip
>
>
>
> *The program can do the following:*
>
> **
>
> - he has two individual visual display screens of Rx/Tx
>
> - Psk31 and Psk63
>
> - Incorporate 72 Macros Automatic
>
> - he calculates coordinates and walks
>
> - the Call Consults Book
>
> - he has book of contacts
>
> - export and he imports a Cabrillo
>
> - he calculates statistics for DXCC, WAE and IOTA
>
> - calculates the punctuation of the contest 070 Club Pskfest
>
> - capture IOTAS in real time
>
> - he has Qsl's's module of impression, envelopes and labels.
>
> - use visual informacón's windows for colors
>
> - send and capture progressive numbers
>
> - he can create multiple log ' s
>
> - he connects to the Cluster
>
>
>
> This and next muches but. An interesting Software created in Spain for
> Psk for the station is 
*EA1CUI
> *
>
>
>
> 
www.ea1cui.com
>
>
>
>
>
> I hope that you like it . Greetings and to next
>
>
>
> joaquin, EA4ZB
>  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
http://www.ea4zb.com
> (Translate to spanish language the activities to 070 CLUB, endorsements,
> contest rules, etc and more...)
> (casi todo en psk - psk31 para principiantes - concursos en español)
>
>
>


--
Cumprimentos

Salomão Fresco
CT2IRJ

If it works... dont fix it!







--
Cumprimentos

Salomão Fresco
CT2IRJ

If it works... dont fix it!

Re: [digitalradio] New software available for next 070 Club PSKFEST

[EA4ZB]

Hey Omar, YK1AO:

Alternative site for download Contact Psk 4,5 here:
http://www.ea4zb.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=41

Good contest
JOAQUIN - EA4ZB


2007/1/10, o. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


   Dear friend;

How do I get the program. It needs a password and ID

Best 73

Omar YK1AO


- Original Message -
*From:* EA4ZB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
*To:* grupo digitalradio 
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 10, 2007 1:03 PM
*Subject:* [digitalradio] New software available for next 070 Club PSKFEST



 Hey all!

New software is available for next 070 CLUB PSKFEST. The author is Juanma
EA1CUI.


Hello



Under date of today, I send you a link for the unloading of Psk's program.



The Program is named *Conatct Psk *and this prepared to calculate the
contest 070 Club PskFest



It can be used in Spanish and in English, and he has many advantages.



The program finds in the following link:



http://www.ea1cui.com/contact-pskV4.5.zip



*The program can do the following:*

**

- he has two individual visual display screens of Rx/Tx

- Psk31 and Psk63

- Incorporate 72 Macros Automatic

- he calculates coordinates and walks

- the Call Consults Book

- he has book of contacts

- export and he imports a Cabrillo

- he calculates statistics for DXCC, WAE and IOTA

- calculates the punctuation of the contest 070 Club Pskfest

- capture IOTAS in real time

- he has Qsl's's module of impression, envelopes and labels.

- use visual informacón's windows for colors

- send and capture progressive numbers

- he can create multiple log ' s

- he connects to the Cluster



This and next muches but. An interesting Software created in Spain for Psk
for the station is 
*EA1CUI
*



www.ea1cui.com





I hope that you like it . Greetings and to next



joaquin, EA4ZB
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.ea4zb.com
(Translate to spanish language the activities to 070 CLUB, endorsements,
contest rules, etc and more...)
(casi todo en psk - psk31 para principiantes - concursos en español)


 





--
73 de Joaquin, EA4ZB

Re: [digitalradio] Re: Movement toward open digital software?

[kd4e]

> That's my one pet peeve about Linux.  You go looking for a program to
> do what you want and find out it is two years old and requires
> libraries that have been updated 4 times since then.  Sometimes trying
> to find the older libraries is a real challenge.  I would love it if
> everyone would store the libraries and programs necessary to install a
> program right with the program.
> Jim WA0LYK

That was my pet peeve as well!

I went through over a dozen distros before I got
to Puppy Linux.  The folks responsible for it are
really good about making what they call "dotpups"
which are a complete application ready to install.

You just click on the downloaded dotpup and it
automatically sets everything up.

Occasionally your app will require something key
like Java or tcl/tk and that will have to be
loaded first -- but even then it is almost always
available as a dotpup either on the official site
or on a server one of the affiliated folks hosts.

They did go through a change of Linux kernels
a while back and that introduced some transition
of lots of apps but other than that things have
gone pretty smoothly -- the app is now much more
user friendly than the big ones.

I have tried Debian and the many variants and
spent hundreds of hours chasing dependencies,
it takes a better code-hound than I to get it
running and to add in apps.

RedHat and SuSE drove me nuts with code-bloat
and dependency nightmares.

Stormix and a couple others went out of business.

Puppy is designed as a not-for-profit enterprise
so there is not bloated staff and corporate
infrastructure to support.  Users not stockholders
drive the distro.

IMHO, YMMV ...

-- 

Thanks! & 73, doc, KD4E
~~
Projects: http://ham-macguyver.bibleseven.com
Personal: http://bibleseven.com
Note:  Both down temporarily due to server change.
~~

Re: [digitalradio] Re: Movement toward open digital software?

[Danny Douglas]

WOW  An MIT education for free (well money wise at least).  Interesting
site, and a place I should visit often- but maybe a bit beyond my
comprehension these days.  I missed the Navy Reserve Officers Training 4
year scholorship by one lousy point (should have taken the test in Oklahoma,
instead of Texas -- the cutoff there was 3 points lower), and that is where
I had intended to use it.  Oh Well !


Danny Douglas N7DC
ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB all
DX 2-6 years each
.
QSL LOTW-buro- direct
As courtesy I upload to eQSL but if you
use that - also pls upload to LOTW
or hard card.

moderator  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk
- Original Message - 
From: "Dave Bernstein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 7:32 PM
Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Movement toward open digital software?


> re "What Linux does for one think is make you think about what you
> are doing and keep you from becoming an appliance operator?  How many
> hams really know how to program their 2M talkie?"
>
> Using Linux will not teach you to program your 2M talkie, nor will it
> teach you how to create applications that run on Linux. If you want
> to learn to write software, you must crack open a book or three to
> learn the basic principles, and then roll up your sleeves and build
> something using what you've learned.
>
> MIT has made all of its courseware freely available online via
>
> http://ocw.mit.edu/index.html
>
> For a solid foundation, start with 6.001:
>
> http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Electrical-Engineering-and-Computer-
> Science/6-001Spring-2005/CourseHome/index.htm
>
> One of the authors of the textbook used in this course is WA1NSE:
>
> http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html
>
>  73,
>
>   Dave, AA6YQ
>
>
>
>
> --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "DuBose Walt Civ AETC CONS/LGCA"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > IMHO, hams have not said we want "this" distro to support ham radio
> so we adopt it.
> >
> > SuSe, Mandrake, Debian and a couple of others cater to amateur
> radio.   My personal leaning is toward Debian and it WAS the first
> Linux distro. to try and devote itself to being ham radio friendly.
> >
> > The real key to a ham radio applications for Linus is to include
> all the required libraries (dependencies) with the release of the
> installation and install the executable and  with all dependencies in
> a specific location.  So then you are back to MS...C:\Program
> Files\PSK31
> >
> > But my Linux computer is shared by my family and I don't want them
> to have access to PSK31 so I want to put it in
> > my \USR2\k5yfw\digital\psk3 and You might want to put it in \URS3
> \Sal\amateur-radio\digital\psk31.
> >
> > What Linux does for one think is make you think about what you are
> doing and keep you from becoming an appliance operator?  How many
> hams really know how to program their 2M talkie?
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Walt/K5YFW
>
>
>
>
>
> Announce your digital  presence via our DX Cluster
telnet://cluster.dynalias.org
>
> Our other groups:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dxlist/
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contesting
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wnyar
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Omnibus97
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.9/622 - Release Date: 1/10/2007
2:52 PM
>
>

Re: [digitalradio] Movement toward open digital software?

[KV9U]

I think that for some, the fiddling may be OK. I have spent an 
unbelievable amount of time over the years on fiddling with C-64's, 
Apple //e, 286's up to Pentium IV's,with both software and hardware, as 
I am sure many others here have as well.

One of the most difficult things I had to do a year or so ago was try 
and reload Windows 98 into an older machine (after using it for Vector 
Linux for a while with pretty good success), and give it to my mother 
who is in her 90's and had a 166 MHz box that was just not running well 
anymore so my 450 MHz box helped some. I  was tempted to leave Linux on 
her system as all she really needed was to run a web browser but I 
didn't:(  I was surprised how hard it is to obtain drivers for things 
such as newer monitors but I finally did get it loaded and she has been 
using it successfully for some time with Win 98. Thank goodness for the 
free AVG virus protection software system!

I really think that there is going to be a sea change in the world. 
There are too many things happening, although very slowly yet, 
especially in third world countries where Linux is going to be the 
default OS whether people like it or not. And unless they are content to 
run older MS software (illegal, of course), they will likely find it far 
better to move to Linux as more technical expertise occurs and it 
becomes the defacto standard.

There are not many programs that would be unavailable on Linux anymore. 
I was surprised when I came across this web site that has detailed the 
equivalents/replacements and analogs of Windows with Linux. Very 
interesting. Note where this is coming from too even though it is 
written in English:

http://www.linuxrsp.ru/win-lin-soft/table-eng.html

With some ham radio software only being available now in Linux and not 
MS OS, the tables are somewhat turning. It will be years, of course, but 
there are literally billions of people who either can get an excellent 
product for no cost or minimal cost, or have to steal a product that not 
really any better and some would say worse in some cases, but has First 
World momentum. If UNIX had been available for $50 instead of $1000 back 
20 years ago I doubt that MS would have succeeded in the marketplace.

73,

Rick, KV9U


Danny Douglas wrote:

>That is one of the reasons I dont get into Linux.  I watched others,
>stressed out at school, trying to get systems operational and smoothed out.
>We need things to work at college, not there to be fiddled with, because
>students have only a certain amount of time to use systems, and expect them
>to work - especially in an educational atmosphere.  Yes - Windows has its
>problems too, but once we find a solution with one, the rest pretty much
>fall into place too.  The other thing has been mentioned - the availability
>of user programs.  If it is written to do, it is written for windows, and
>once in a while they follow up with a Linux program - but not too often.
>
>
>  
>

Re: [digitalradio] Re: Movement toward open digital software?

[Leigh L Klotz, Jr.]

And you will find my name in the acknowledgements in the preface as I 
helped with the course development in its first two years. Gerry was my 
advisor as well for a while.   I heard from him last month, when he 
finished his new K2.

Last year MIT started offering a mixed course for non-majors, of 3 units 
of Scheme (a mini version of this course) and the rest with high-level 
programming in Python.  They teach Signals and Systems using both Scheme 
and Python now (not just Scheme), and I recently suggested a lab 
involving the popular SoftRock kits as a practicum.  (In my day we had 
to build the FM demodulator...)

Leigh/WA5ZNU

> One of the authors of the textbook used in this course is WA1NSE:
>
> http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html
>
>  73,
>
>   Dave, AA6YQ

RE: [digitalradio] Movement toward open digital software?

[Peter G. Viscarola]

>
>If UNIX had been available for $50 instead of 
>$1000 back 20 years ago I doubt that MS would have succeeded in the
marketplace.
>

This topic is probably more appropriate on Slashdot than on this Yahoo
group, but

Windows preeminence on the desktop has nothing to do with the operating
system itself, or it's cost 20 years back.  Windows command of the
desktop stems directly from Microsoft's overwhelming dominance in
applications such as word, powerpoint, and outlook.

Microsoft achieved this application dominance by essentially giving away
office with Windows, and thus making office ubiquitous.  Word wasn't,
and still isn't, the best word processor on the market.  Rather, it
bought market share until it drove several superior competing products
out of the market.  Heck, I didn't WANT to give up using Ami Pro (my
word processing software of choice 12 years ago) -- I *had* to because
all the business people with whom I communicated used Word... And Word
was, afterall, available darn close to free (if not completely free) on
Windows.

Today, yeah... You COULD use Star Office -- it's ALMSOT fully compatible
with Word and it's not half bad.  But "almost fully compatible" won't
typically cut it in the business world.  And Linux *still* doesn't have
a decent email/productivity application that rivals Outlook.

Back to ham radio, I think the move from 32-bit computing to 64-bit
computing is more likely trigger a move by hobbyist, small, independent,
and community-based devs to Linux.  This is because of Microsoft's
ill-conceived security policies (in place for 64-bit Windows Vista and
later) that requires things like drivers to be digitally signed using a
certificate issued by a recognized certification authority.  Acquiring
such a certiciation from Verisign (one of the recognized authorities),
for example, costs $500/year -- nothing for a large corporation, but a
chunk of change for somebody who writes code in their spare time and
gives it away to the ham radio community.

If the smaller devs move to Linux, that means a lot of innovation will
also move.  It's already quite common in the industry to have bleeding
edge software developed first on Linux and later ported to Windows.

Things are changing.  Will Linux be the answer?  Only time will tell.

de Peter K1PGV

Re: [digitalradio] Movement toward open digital software?

[John Bradley]

I First of all , I'm a dyed-in-the-wool windows user, and make no excuses for 
that.

There are interesting parallels between linnux and windows users, and different 
users of ham radio..

On one hand you find those who are interested in operating, in communicating 
and making new contacts around the globe. These are also the folks who jump 
into ARES and SAR teams to provide support,  function is the main 
interest of this type of operator, rather than the form.. success is 
the ability to communicate under adverse conditions, rather than the "how" of 
how it got there. Windows appeals to these folks since it is a relatively 
simple thing to use, and it works across a broad spectrum of programs.

The other side of the equation are those who are very interested in the "how" 
and not so much in the "why". These are folks who are concerned about  the 
throughput, not the content. They can happily bury themselves in the technical 
knowledge and patience required to use linux, write endless lines of code and 
otherwise do all those things that would drive me as an operator crazy. 

Fortunately there is room for, and a need for both in the digital world., those 
to write the code and those of us who enjoy using new code and running it to 
it's limits. 

Microsoft became popular because it was the simplest tool around to get the job 
done. Not the most elegant, maybe not the most efficient, but it got the job 
done. And it was something that could be used with little or no technical 
training.The ease of operation led to microsoft's dominance in the marketplace 
with word, powerpoint, outlook and the like. Nothing else written in the early 
days could beat the ease with which these programs functioned. Microsoft did 
their market analysis very well and concentrated on software perceived as the 
greatest need, not obscure specialty graphics software that Apple got into, and 
built a reputation on. Just plain vanilla word and number crunching.

IMHO, this KISS (Keep it simple,stupid) principle that microsoft adhered to 
would be something for linnux to examine, in order to survive beyond cult 
status

my 2 cents

John
VE5MU 

 


--


  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG Free Edition.
  Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.9/623 - Release Date: 1/11/2007 
3:33 PM