Re: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy
Okay, so what this really sounds like is a problem between a few individuals about an isolated instant involving one person. This can be resolved individually with mediation (if necessary)instead of with legislation. Is this now grounds for policy creation? If so, I'd like to outline a few other points that could fall in this realm: 1: The parking lot across the street is private parking and does not belong to Synhak. People who park there but are not authorized to do so may be towed. Do we need to have a parking policy now? 2: The military recruiting office is 50ft from our door, there is no smoking within 50ft of a government building. Do we need designated smoking areas? 3: I've seen people pull out their personal laptops to show me something and in the background I see a torrent application running. They could be downloading cracked operating systems, music, movies, TV shows (all of which I've heard discussed at Synhak) which is illegal and logged on our ip address. Do we need an acceptable use policy to use our internet access? Devin, I'm not trying to side-step your suggestion, I'm not even against the idea of saying we don't condone that type of thing (because, really, I don't condone it so long as it remains against the law). What you're suggestion is indicative of the fact that there is no formal statement from Synhak on the subject. I'm trying to come up with a resolution that doesn't come off as Synhak has a substance problem (because Synhak does NOT), that protects the organization's interest, and requires little effort to implement or the need to go back and change as society changes. What I don't want is to foster a climate where if a person has a problem with something or someone, that they point their finger and say You fix it. It is the antithesis of a hackerspace. Individual responsibility and community are paramount at Synhak and using the board to address minor issues between a few individuals with general legislation is a detriment to future of how Synhak is governed/operates. The only time the police should ever be involved at Synhak is when someone refuses to leave when asked by a Champion or other officer. On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 11:09 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Sunday, March 09, 2014 22:57:13 Michael Griesacker wrote: in regards to the recent incident last tuesday, and, if memory serves, there were two incidents with the same individual, was that member asked to leave, and did someone sit down with that member the next day or after and discuss their inappropriate behavior? I would assume No. If someone gets asked to leave or a issue of unacceptable behavior does need brought up within the community, I'd expect to see it on discuss@. You can't really ask someone to leave and *not* tell everyone else that they're not allowed to stick around. On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 10:25 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Sunday, March 09, 2014 17:35:31 degerov...@yahoo.com wrote: I feel that my suggestion was side stepped completely. After receiving multiple verbal complaints, and a written formal complaint I feel this has become a problem. Your suggestion doesn't allow SYNHAK to really say anything other than bad hacker, think about what you have done. I don't want to see it degrade to people calling the police instead of calmly resolving any issues within Synhak. The policy has nothing to do with adult alcohol consumption or behavior as that is subject to opinion and point of view. With this policy we can calmly and internally quell Sorry, I re-read this and just about spat my tea on my laptop. Internally quell? Devin, SYNHAK is an organization that values communication and transparency. This has never changed in the last two years. If someone has a complaint about another participant in the community, the solution is to get the two together and hash out their differences. If someone had come and complained to me that another member was doing something they didn't approve of, I would be sure to get the two together in a safe space and mediate. Somehow that hasn't actually needed to happen 'till all this boiled over. I think we should consider ourselves quite lucky. I've received some pretty nasty e-mails from individuals regarding misunderstandings about my financial reporting. So I talked with Chris and he's tried to reach out and get some mediation going. I think that was maybe 2-3 weeks ago. From what I can tell they're still upset and not telling me or Chris why that is. I say that because neither of us have heard back. Internally quell really comes off like a non-statement. This drug policy idea appears to be an attempt to wave some hands and hope the problem goes away without actually connecting the people in question to resolve their differences.
Re: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy
On Monday, March 10, 2014 07:44:07 Omar Rassi wrote: Okay, so what this really sounds like is a problem between a few individuals about an isolated instant involving one person. This can be resolved individually with mediation (if necessary)instead of with legislation. Is this now grounds for policy creation? If so, I'd like to outline a few other points that could fall in this realm: 1: The parking lot across the street is private parking and does not belong to Synhak. People who park there but are not authorized to do so may be towed. Do we need to have a parking policy now? 2: The military recruiting office is 50ft from our door, there is no smoking within 50ft of a government building. Do we need designated smoking areas? 3: I've seen people pull out their personal laptops to show me something and in the background I see a torrent application running. They could be downloading cracked operating systems, music, movies, TV shows (all of which I've heard discussed at Synhak) which is illegal and logged on our ip address. Do we need an acceptable use policy to use our internet access? Devin, I'm not trying to side-step your suggestion, I'm not even against the idea of saying we don't condone that type of thing (because, really, I don't condone it so long as it remains against the law). What you're suggestion is indicative of the fact that there is no formal statement from Synhak on the subject. I'm trying to come up with a resolution that doesn't come off as Synhak has a substance problem (because Synhak does NOT), that protects the organization's interest, and requires little effort to implement or the need to go back and change as society changes. What I don't want is to foster a climate where if a person has a problem with something or someone, that they point their finger and say You fix it. It is the antithesis of a hackerspace. Individual responsibility and community are paramount at Synhak and using the board to address minor issues between a few individuals with general legislation is a detriment to future of how Synhak is governed/operates. The only time the police should ever be involved at Synhak is when someone refuses to leave when asked by a Champion or other officer. Since the dawn of time, we've all stressed that the board exists simply so that SYNHAK, Inc exists as a legal entity in the eyes of the State of Ohio. The Membership has always been in charge. I mean, whats the point of having weekly meetings, consensus, champions, mediation, excellence, and everything else associated with our governance process if the board feels that they're free to jump in at any time and decide what is best for us all? On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 11:09 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Sunday, March 09, 2014 22:57:13 Michael Griesacker wrote: in regards to the recent incident last tuesday, and, if memory serves, there were two incidents with the same individual, was that member asked to leave, and did someone sit down with that member the next day or after and discuss their inappropriate behavior? I would assume No. If someone gets asked to leave or a issue of unacceptable behavior does need brought up within the community, I'd expect to see it on discuss@. You can't really ask someone to leave and *not* tell everyone else that they're not allowed to stick around. On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 10:25 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Sunday, March 09, 2014 17:35:31 degerov...@yahoo.com wrote: I feel that my suggestion was side stepped completely. After receiving multiple verbal complaints, and a written formal complaint I feel this has become a problem. Your suggestion doesn't allow SYNHAK to really say anything other than bad hacker, think about what you have done. I don't want to see it degrade to people calling the police instead of calmly resolving any issues within Synhak. The policy has nothing to do with adult alcohol consumption or behavior as that is subject to opinion and point of view. With this policy we can calmly and internally quell Sorry, I re-read this and just about spat my tea on my laptop. Internally quell? Devin, SYNHAK is an organization that values communication and transparency. This has never changed in the last two years. If someone has a complaint about another participant in the community, the solution is to get the two together and hash out their differences. If someone had come and complained to me that another member was doing something they didn't approve of, I would be sure to get the two together in a safe space and mediate. Somehow that hasn't actually needed to happen 'till all this boiled over. I think we should consider
Re: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy
I don't see a problem with asking people not to do things. I don't see why before this weeks meeting we send out a message saying something along the lines of if you are going to have a beer out two save it for after the meeting . and if you choose to drink during the meeting that is un excellent to the rest of the hakkers in the meeting. Hopefully people respect that. Which I feel like most of our regulars will. And also state that it is un excellent to operate the heavy duty tools while drinking On Mar 10, 2014 9:44 AM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.net wrote: On Monday, March 10, 2014 07:44:07 Omar Rassi wrote: Okay, so what this really sounds like is a problem between a few individuals about an isolated instant involving one person. This can be resolved individually with mediation (if necessary)instead of with legislation. Is this now grounds for policy creation? If so, I'd like to outline a few other points that could fall in this realm: 1: The parking lot across the street is private parking and does not belong to Synhak. People who park there but are not authorized to do so may be towed. Do we need to have a parking policy now? 2: The military recruiting office is 50ft from our door, there is no smoking within 50ft of a government building. Do we need designated smoking areas? 3: I've seen people pull out their personal laptops to show me something and in the background I see a torrent application running. They could be downloading cracked operating systems, music, movies, TV shows (all of which I've heard discussed at Synhak) which is illegal and logged on our ip address. Do we need an acceptable use policy to use our internet access? Devin, I'm not trying to side-step your suggestion, I'm not even against the idea of saying we don't condone that type of thing (because, really, I don't condone it so long as it remains against the law). What you're suggestion is indicative of the fact that there is no formal statement from Synhak on the subject. I'm trying to come up with a resolution that doesn't come off as Synhak has a substance problem (because Synhak does NOT), that protects the organization's interest, and requires little effort to implement or the need to go back and change as society changes. What I don't want is to foster a climate where if a person has a problem with something or someone, that they point their finger and say You fix it. It is the antithesis of a hackerspace. Individual responsibility and community are paramount at Synhak and using the board to address minor issues between a few individuals with general legislation is a detriment to future of how Synhak is governed/operates. The only time the police should ever be involved at Synhak is when someone refuses to leave when asked by a Champion or other officer. Since the dawn of time, we've all stressed that the board exists simply so that SYNHAK, Inc exists as a legal entity in the eyes of the State of Ohio. The Membership has always been in charge. I mean, whats the point of having weekly meetings, consensus, champions, mediation, excellence, and everything else associated with our governance process if the board feels that they're free to jump in at any time and decide what is best for us all? On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 11:09 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Sunday, March 09, 2014 22:57:13 Michael Griesacker wrote: in regards to the recent incident last tuesday, and, if memory serves, there were two incidents with the same individual, was that member asked to leave, and did someone sit down with that member the next day or after and discuss their inappropriate behavior? I would assume No. If someone gets asked to leave or a issue of unacceptable behavior does need brought up within the community, I'd expect to see it on discuss@. You can't really ask someone to leave and *not* tell everyone else that they're not allowed to stick around. On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 10:25 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Sunday, March 09, 2014 17:35:31 degerov...@yahoo.com wrote: I feel that my suggestion was side stepped completely. After receiving multiple verbal complaints, and a written formal complaint I feel this has become a problem. Your suggestion doesn't allow SYNHAK to really say anything other than bad hacker, think about what you have done. I don't want to see it degrade to people calling the police instead of calmly resolving any issues within Synhak. The policy has nothing to do with adult alcohol consumption or behavior as that is subject to opinion and point of view. With this policy we can calmly and internally quell Sorry, I re-read this and just about spat my tea
Re: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy
On Friday, March 07, 2014 12:28:34 Torrie Fischer wrote: On Friday, March 07, 2014 11:41:23 Devin Wolfe wrote: Hello all, Up until now there has been no formal drug policy at synhak. But with several complaints and concerns raised recently I feel it is time we implement one. As a corporation we jeopardise ourselves if we just turn a blind eye. Plus working around dangerous tools while under the influence is a liability. Here is the wording I plan on submitting to the board: SYNHAK INC. will not condone, endorse, or allow the use of illegal drugs or related illegal activities including but not limited to illegal drug use, possession, sale, manufacturing, transfer, providing drugs or alcohol to a minor, or consumption of drugs or alcohol by a minor, as defined and stated in the Ohio Revised Code, any laws or set of laws pertaining to any location where SYNHAK INC. is at that time conducting business. This pertains but is not limited to agents, representatives, volunteers, members, nonmembers, employees, and contractors. I would like the hear everyone's opinion on this. Also do we need an explicit procedure for discipline or removal if needed? Please do not accuse, slander, or otherwise make this a personal matter. Keep names out of it. Neat, lets just jump right to the assumption that everyone is going to be hostile about it. What a friendly community SYNHAK has become. Instead of complaining about how shitty we've become to each other, I spent my vacation from discuss@ writing up what I've perceived as our common community standards. I feel that it is the rough consensus of acceptable behavior within SYNHAK: https://synhak.org/wiki/Community_Standards I deliberately left it sparse as I feel that we can develop this through civil discussion instead of immediately proposing a drug policy which makes it sound like we're all crack addicts to the outside observer. If you've got an addition, feel free to add it. If you're unsure about making any additions, LETS TALK ABOUT IT! :D In excellence, Devin Wolfe Sent with AquaMail for Android http://www.aqua-mail.com ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy
that the restaurant supported this activity. The issue becomes how good is our defense. Justin On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:34 PM, Omar Rassi omar.ra...@gmail.com wrote: So if someone snorts coke in a restaurant bathroom, the restaurant is liable? Again, I should emphasize, I'm not against the idea, I'm just against creating more regulation when there already exists the law. It isn't any of our business what life choices people make. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:30 PM, Justin Herman just...@gmail.com wrote: Omar, Without policy SynHak becomes compliant with legal issues in the space. SynHak created the atmosphere for X to occur. Why? Because we wanted to not have rules is not valid legal defense. ESP since it has now been brought up. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Omar Rassi omar.ra...@gmail.comwrote: Personally, I'm not interested in policing the space, I don't come there to keep on eye on other members and visitors. The law doesn't disappear when you walk through the doors so I'm wondering why the organizing needs to apply more paperwork and wording on the subject. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.net wrote: On Friday, March 07, 2014 12:20:05 Omar Rassi wrote: I'm taking this to mean that the liability waiver is not enough anymore. Did something happen at the space recently? I'm not exactly against this idea but so far the majority of people that come to the space and participate have been adults of sound mind. Has this gotten so out of hand that people are no longer able to look out for eachother or restrain themselves so Synhak Inc. needs to step in and become big brother? Yeah, thats my concern. I thought we were trying to stay away from pre-emptive rules and were capable of policing ourselves like adults, or having in person conversations to address issues instead of slyly bringing up board vote topics that apply to the whole membership three days before board meetings. I think we need a bylaw amendment that the agenda for a board meeting must be issued in full with any announcement. Am I allowed to bring issues up minutes before the board meeting? an hour into it? I think I'll do that. I'll propose that we stop coddling the community. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:10 PM, Justin Herman just...@gmail.com wrote: I think we need to set the option for you to be excused for the day with the possibility of having membership terminated or banned for repeat/egregious behavior. Someone unwilling to cooperate to remove and mitigate the issue and safety is of concern the police should be called. I see a drug and alcohol policy as important as our safety requirements as it put everyone at risk. Not only can SynHak be held liable but the members and board who allow it to continue can be held liable. Safety is of concern as someone could personally feel they are alright to operate machinery but miss judge they capacity. These are awful concerns and no one likes to think about someone getting hurt BUT without a policy SynHak can't have a leg to stand on. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Seeley, Tim (PSA-Akron) tim.see...@psangelus.com wrote: It might need to say something about what the adult alcohol permitted behavior is. V/R Tim Seeley -Original Message- From: discuss-boun...@synhak.org [mailto: discuss-boun...@synhak.org] On Behalf Of Devin Wolfe Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 11:41 AM To: discuss@synhak.org Subject: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy Hello all, Up until now there has been no formal drug policy at synhak. But with several complaints and concerns raised recently I feel it is time we implement one. As a corporation we jeopardise ourselves if we just turn a blind eye. Plus working around dangerous tools while under the influence is a liability. Here is the wording I plan on submitting to the board: SYNHAK INC. will not condone, endorse, or allow the use
Re: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy
to have rules on that because people are getting out of control? On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Justin Herman just...@gmail.com wrote: Omar, Yes the restaurant can be liable IF it can be proven that the restaurant supported this activity. The issue becomes how good is our defense. Justin On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:34 PM, Omar Rassi omar.ra...@gmail.com wrote: So if someone snorts coke in a restaurant bathroom, the restaurant is liable? Again, I should emphasize, I'm not against the idea, I'm just against creating more regulation when there already exists the law. It isn't any of our business what life choices people make. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:30 PM, Justin Herman just...@gmail.com wrote: Omar, Without policy SynHak becomes compliant with legal issues in the space. SynHak created the atmosphere for X to occur. Why? Because we wanted to not have rules is not valid legal defense. ESP since it has now been brought up. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Omar Rassi omar.ra...@gmail.comwrote: Personally, I'm not interested in policing the space, I don't come there to keep on eye on other members and visitors. The law doesn't disappear when you walk through the doors so I'm wondering why the organizing needs to apply more paperwork and wording on the subject. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.net wrote: On Friday, March 07, 2014 12:20:05 Omar Rassi wrote: I'm taking this to mean that the liability waiver is not enough anymore. Did something happen at the space recently? I'm not exactly against this idea but so far the majority of people that come to the space and participate have been adults of sound mind. Has this gotten so out of hand that people are no longer able to look out for eachother or restrain themselves so Synhak Inc. needs to step in and become big brother? Yeah, thats my concern. I thought we were trying to stay away from pre-emptive rules and were capable of policing ourselves like adults, or having in person conversations to address issues instead of slyly bringing up board vote topics that apply to the whole membership three days before board meetings. I think we need a bylaw amendment that the agenda for a board meeting must be issued in full with any announcement. Am I allowed to bring issues up minutes before the board meeting? an hour into it? I think I'll do that. I'll propose that we stop coddling the community. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:10 PM, Justin Herman just...@gmail.com wrote: I think we need to set the option for you to be excused for the day with the possibility of having membership terminated or banned for repeat/egregious behavior. Someone unwilling to cooperate to remove and mitigate the issue and safety is of concern the police should be called. I see a drug and alcohol policy as important as our safety requirements as it put everyone at risk. Not only can SynHak be held liable but the members and board who allow it to continue can be held liable. Safety is of concern as someone could personally feel they are alright to operate machinery but miss judge they capacity. These are awful concerns and no one likes to think about someone getting hurt BUT without a policy SynHak can't have a leg to stand on. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Seeley, Tim (PSA-Akron) tim.see...@psangelus.com wrote: It might need to say something about what the adult alcohol permitted behavior is. V/R Tim Seeley -Original Message- From: discuss-boun...@synhak.org [mailto: discuss-boun...@synhak.org] On Behalf Of Devin Wolfe Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 11:41 AM To: discuss@synhak.org Subject: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy Hello all, Up until now there has been no formal drug policy at synhak. But with several complaints and concerns raised recently I feel it is time we implement one. As a corporation we jeopardise ourselves if we just turn a blind eye. Plus working around
Re: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy
and no one likes to think about someone getting hurt BUT without a policy SynHak can't have a leg to stand on. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Seeley, Tim (PSA-Akron) tim.see...@psangelus.com wrote: It might need to say something about what the adult alcohol permitted behavior is. V/R Tim Seeley -Original Message- From: discuss-boun...@synhak.org [mailto: discuss-boun...@synhak.org] On Behalf Of Devin Wolfe Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 11:41 AM To: discuss@synhak.org Subject: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy Hello all, Up until now there has been no formal drug policy at synhak. But with several complaints and concerns raised recently I feel it is time we implement one. As a corporation we jeopardise ourselves if we just turn a blind eye. Plus working around dangerous tools while under the influence is a liability. Here is the wording I plan on submitting to the board: SYNHAK INC. will not condone, endorse, or allow the use of illegal drugs or related illegal activities including but not limited to illegal drug use, possession, sale, manufacturing, transfer, providing drugs or alcohol to a minor, or consumption of drugs or alcohol by a minor, as defined and stated in the Ohio Revised Code, any laws or set of laws pertaining to any location where SYNHAK INC. is at that time conducting business. This pertains but is not limited to agents, representatives, volunteers, members, nonmembers, employees, and contractors. I would like the hear everyone's opinion on this. Also do we need an explicit procedure for discipline or removal if needed? Please do not accuse, slander, or otherwise make this a personal matter. Keep names out of it. In excellence, Devin Wolfe Sent with AquaMail for Android http://www.aqua-mail.com ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Sincerely, Tomm Smith God bless -- Sincerely, Tomm Smith God bless ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy
with the possibility of having membership terminated or banned for repeat/egregious behavior. Someone unwilling to cooperate to remove and mitigate the issue and safety is of concern the police should be called. I see a drug and alcohol policy as important as our safety requirements as it put everyone at risk. Not only can SynHak be held liable but the members and board who allow it to continue can be held liable. Safety is of concern as someone could personally feel they are alright to operate machinery but miss judge they capacity. These are awful concerns and no one likes to think about someone getting hurt BUT without a policy SynHak can't have a leg to stand on. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Seeley, Tim (PSA-Akron) tim.see...@psangelus.com wrote: It might need to say something about what the adult alcohol permitted behavior is. V/R Tim Seeley -Original Message- From: discuss-boun...@synhak.org [mailto: discuss-boun...@synhak.org] On Behalf Of Devin Wolfe Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 11:41 AM To: discuss@synhak.org Subject: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy Hello all, Up until now there has been no formal drug policy at synhak. But with several complaints and concerns raised recently I feel it is time we implement one. As a corporation we jeopardise ourselves if we just turn a blind eye. Plus working around dangerous tools while under the influence is a liability. Here is the wording I plan on submitting to the board: SYNHAK INC. will not condone, endorse, or allow the use of illegal drugs or related illegal activities including but not limited to illegal drug use, possession, sale, manufacturing, transfer, providing drugs or alcohol to a minor, or consumption of drugs or alcohol by a minor, as defined and stated in the Ohio Revised Code, any laws or set of laws pertaining to any location where SYNHAK INC. is at that time conducting business. This pertains but is not limited to agents, representatives, volunteers, members, nonmembers, employees, and contractors. I would like the hear everyone's opinion on this. Also do we need an explicit procedure for discipline or removal if needed? Please do not accuse, slander, or otherwise make this a personal matter. Keep names out of it. In excellence, Devin Wolfe Sent with AquaMail for Android http://www.aqua-mail.com ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy
I feel that my suggestion was side stepped completely. After receiving multiple verbal complaints, and a written formal complaint I feel this has become a problem. Your suggestion doesn't allow SYNHAK to really say anything other than bad hacker, think about what you have done. I don't want to see it degrade to people calling the police instead of calmly resolving any issues within Synhak. The policy has nothing to do with adult alcohol consumption or behavior as that is subject to opinion and point of view. With this policy we can calmly and internally quell these situations. If this is a matter best suited for the police, then that should be the course of action the next time this situation arises. Regards Devin Wolfe ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy
On Sunday, March 09, 2014 17:35:31 degerov...@yahoo.com wrote: I feel that my suggestion was side stepped completely. After receiving multiple verbal complaints, and a written formal complaint I feel this has become a problem. Your suggestion doesn't allow SYNHAK to really say anything other than bad hacker, think about what you have done. I don't want to see it degrade to people calling the police instead of calmly resolving any issues within Synhak. The policy has nothing to do with adult alcohol consumption or behavior as that is subject to opinion and point of view. With this policy we can calmly and internally quell Sorry, I re-read this and just about spat my tea on my laptop. Internally quell? Devin, SYNHAK is an organization that values communication and transparency. This has never changed in the last two years. If someone has a complaint about another participant in the community, the solution is to get the two together and hash out their differences. If someone had come and complained to me that another member was doing something they didn't approve of, I would be sure to get the two together in a safe space and mediate. Somehow that hasn't actually needed to happen 'till all this boiled over. I think we should consider ourselves quite lucky. I've received some pretty nasty e-mails from individuals regarding misunderstandings about my financial reporting. So I talked with Chris and he's tried to reach out and get some mediation going. I think that was maybe 2-3 weeks ago. From what I can tell they're still upset and not telling me or Chris why that is. I say that because neither of us have heard back. Internally quell really comes off like a non-statement. This drug policy idea appears to be an attempt to wave some hands and hope the problem goes away without actually connecting the people in question to resolve their differences. Can I start complaining to you about the disrespect I get from various people? Is the solution to that an anti-harassment policy that just reiterates Be Excellent To Others without actually addressing the underlying issue of people thinking its OK to fill my day to day interactions with misery? No, not really. Nothing would change. I really want to get back to hacking. I'm tired of all this infighting and hearing whispers that people don't like me all while they refuse to talk to me about their issues even after directly asking them to do so. Can you please try to resolve these tensions in a proven manner instead of making big empty statements of drugs are bad, mmmkay? If you want, I'd be more than happy to bring in some professional mediators. I'll even pay them if thats what is needed. For some perspective of where I'm coming from, I'll bring up this quote that I've always looked back at regarding SYNHAK's governance and my ever vigilant fight against more rules: For we're excellent to each other here We rarely ever block We value tools over pre-emptive rules And spurn the key and the lock. — Danny O'Brien, 2010-11-09 general meeting notes, Noisebridge these situations. If this is a matter best suited for the police, then that should be the course of action the next time this situation arises. Regards Devin Wolfe ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy
in regards to the recent incident last tuesday, and, if memory serves, there were two incidents with the same individual, was that member asked to leave, and did someone sit down with that member the next day or after and discuss their inappropriate behavior? On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 10:25 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Sunday, March 09, 2014 17:35:31 degerov...@yahoo.com wrote: I feel that my suggestion was side stepped completely. After receiving multiple verbal complaints, and a written formal complaint I feel this has become a problem. Your suggestion doesn't allow SYNHAK to really say anything other than bad hacker, think about what you have done. I don't want to see it degrade to people calling the police instead of calmly resolving any issues within Synhak. The policy has nothing to do with adult alcohol consumption or behavior as that is subject to opinion and point of view. With this policy we can calmly and internally quell Sorry, I re-read this and just about spat my tea on my laptop. Internally quell? Devin, SYNHAK is an organization that values communication and transparency. This has never changed in the last two years. If someone has a complaint about another participant in the community, the solution is to get the two together and hash out their differences. If someone had come and complained to me that another member was doing something they didn't approve of, I would be sure to get the two together in a safe space and mediate. Somehow that hasn't actually needed to happen 'till all this boiled over. I think we should consider ourselves quite lucky. I've received some pretty nasty e-mails from individuals regarding misunderstandings about my financial reporting. So I talked with Chris and he's tried to reach out and get some mediation going. I think that was maybe 2-3 weeks ago. From what I can tell they're still upset and not telling me or Chris why that is. I say that because neither of us have heard back. Internally quell really comes off like a non-statement. This drug policy idea appears to be an attempt to wave some hands and hope the problem goes away without actually connecting the people in question to resolve their differences. Can I start complaining to you about the disrespect I get from various people? Is the solution to that an anti-harassment policy that just reiterates Be Excellent To Others without actually addressing the underlying issue of people thinking its OK to fill my day to day interactions with misery? No, not really. Nothing would change. I really want to get back to hacking. I'm tired of all this infighting and hearing whispers that people don't like me all while they refuse to talk to me about their issues even after directly asking them to do so. Can you please try to resolve these tensions in a proven manner instead of making big empty statements of drugs are bad, mmmkay? If you want, I'd be more than happy to bring in some professional mediators. I'll even pay them if thats what is needed. For some perspective of where I'm coming from, I'll bring up this quote that I've always looked back at regarding SYNHAK's governance and my ever vigilant fight against more rules: For we're excellent to each other here We rarely ever block We value tools over pre-emptive rules And spurn the key and the lock. -- Danny O'Brien, 2010-11-09 general meeting notes, Noisebridge these situations. If this is a matter best suited for the police, then that should be the course of action the next time this situation arises. Regards Devin Wolfe ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy
It might need to say something about what the adult alcohol permitted behavior is. V/R Tim Seeley -Original Message- From: discuss-boun...@synhak.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@synhak.org] On Behalf Of Devin Wolfe Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 11:41 AM To: discuss@synhak.org Subject: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy Hello all, Up until now there has been no formal drug policy at synhak. But with several complaints and concerns raised recently I feel it is time we implement one. As a corporation we jeopardise ourselves if we just turn a blind eye. Plus working around dangerous tools while under the influence is a liability. Here is the wording I plan on submitting to the board: SYNHAK INC. will not condone, endorse, or allow the use of illegal drugs or related illegal activities including but not limited to illegal drug use, possession, sale, manufacturing, transfer, providing drugs or alcohol to a minor, or consumption of drugs or alcohol by a minor, as defined and stated in the Ohio Revised Code, any laws or set of laws pertaining to any location where SYNHAK INC. is at that time conducting business. This pertains but is not limited to agents, representatives, volunteers, members, nonmembers, employees, and contractors. I would like the hear everyone's opinion on this. Also do we need an explicit procedure for discipline or removal if needed? Please do not accuse, slander, or otherwise make this a personal matter. Keep names out of it. In excellence, Devin Wolfe Sent with AquaMail for Android http://www.aqua-mail.com ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy
I think we need to set the option for you to be excused for the day with the possibility of having membership terminated or banned for repeat/egregious behavior. Someone unwilling to cooperate to remove and mitigate the issue and safety is of concern the police should be called. I see a drug and alcohol policy as important as our safety requirements as it put everyone at risk. Not only can SynHak be held liable but the members and board who allow it to continue can be held liable. Safety is of concern as someone could personally feel they are alright to operate machinery but miss judge they capacity. These are awful concerns and no one likes to think about someone getting hurt BUT without a policy SynHak can't have a leg to stand on. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Seeley, Tim (PSA-Akron) tim.see...@psangelus.com wrote: It might need to say something about what the adult alcohol permitted behavior is. V/R Tim Seeley -Original Message- From: discuss-boun...@synhak.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@synhak.org] On Behalf Of Devin Wolfe Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 11:41 AM To: discuss@synhak.org Subject: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy Hello all, Up until now there has been no formal drug policy at synhak. But with several complaints and concerns raised recently I feel it is time we implement one. As a corporation we jeopardise ourselves if we just turn a blind eye. Plus working around dangerous tools while under the influence is a liability. Here is the wording I plan on submitting to the board: SYNHAK INC. will not condone, endorse, or allow the use of illegal drugs or related illegal activities including but not limited to illegal drug use, possession, sale, manufacturing, transfer, providing drugs or alcohol to a minor, or consumption of drugs or alcohol by a minor, as defined and stated in the Ohio Revised Code, any laws or set of laws pertaining to any location where SYNHAK INC. is at that time conducting business. This pertains but is not limited to agents, representatives, volunteers, members, nonmembers, employees, and contractors. I would like the hear everyone's opinion on this. Also do we need an explicit procedure for discipline or removal if needed? Please do not accuse, slander, or otherwise make this a personal matter. Keep names out of it. In excellence, Devin Wolfe Sent with AquaMail for Android http://www.aqua-mail.com ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy
I'm taking this to mean that the liability waiver is not enough anymore. Did something happen at the space recently? I'm not exactly against this idea but so far the majority of people that come to the space and participate have been adults of sound mind. Has this gotten so out of hand that people are no longer able to look out for eachother or restrain themselves so Synhak Inc. needs to step in and become big brother? On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:10 PM, Justin Herman just...@gmail.com wrote: I think we need to set the option for you to be excused for the day with the possibility of having membership terminated or banned for repeat/egregious behavior. Someone unwilling to cooperate to remove and mitigate the issue and safety is of concern the police should be called. I see a drug and alcohol policy as important as our safety requirements as it put everyone at risk. Not only can SynHak be held liable but the members and board who allow it to continue can be held liable. Safety is of concern as someone could personally feel they are alright to operate machinery but miss judge they capacity. These are awful concerns and no one likes to think about someone getting hurt BUT without a policy SynHak can't have a leg to stand on. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Seeley, Tim (PSA-Akron) tim.see...@psangelus.com wrote: It might need to say something about what the adult alcohol permitted behavior is. V/R Tim Seeley -Original Message- From: discuss-boun...@synhak.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@synhak.org] On Behalf Of Devin Wolfe Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 11:41 AM To: discuss@synhak.org Subject: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy Hello all, Up until now there has been no formal drug policy at synhak. But with several complaints and concerns raised recently I feel it is time we implement one. As a corporation we jeopardise ourselves if we just turn a blind eye. Plus working around dangerous tools while under the influence is a liability. Here is the wording I plan on submitting to the board: SYNHAK INC. will not condone, endorse, or allow the use of illegal drugs or related illegal activities including but not limited to illegal drug use, possession, sale, manufacturing, transfer, providing drugs or alcohol to a minor, or consumption of drugs or alcohol by a minor, as defined and stated in the Ohio Revised Code, any laws or set of laws pertaining to any location where SYNHAK INC. is at that time conducting business. This pertains but is not limited to agents, representatives, volunteers, members, nonmembers, employees, and contractors. I would like the hear everyone's opinion on this. Also do we need an explicit procedure for discipline or removal if needed? Please do not accuse, slander, or otherwise make this a personal matter. Keep names out of it. In excellence, Devin Wolfe Sent with AquaMail for Android http://www.aqua-mail.com ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy
IMO consumption of alcohol is acceptable when it follows the Ohio Revised Code, risky behavior is not undertaken, and it is done in moderation. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:19 PM, Tomm Smith root.pac...@gmail.com wrote: I agree with Seeley. I was actually going to buy a case of some craft beer for the fridge this evening, but now hesitate slightly. I would assume this is acceptable as long as practiced with mature moderation? On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:10 PM, Justin Herman just...@gmail.com wrote: I think we need to set the option for you to be excused for the day with the possibility of having membership terminated or banned for repeat/egregious behavior. Someone unwilling to cooperate to remove and mitigate the issue and safety is of concern the police should be called. I see a drug and alcohol policy as important as our safety requirements as it put everyone at risk. Not only can SynHak be held liable but the members and board who allow it to continue can be held liable. Safety is of concern as someone could personally feel they are alright to operate machinery but miss judge they capacity. These are awful concerns and no one likes to think about someone getting hurt BUT without a policy SynHak can't have a leg to stand on. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Seeley, Tim (PSA-Akron) tim.see...@psangelus.com wrote: It might need to say something about what the adult alcohol permitted behavior is. V/R Tim Seeley -Original Message- From: discuss-boun...@synhak.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@synhak.org] On Behalf Of Devin Wolfe Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 11:41 AM To: discuss@synhak.org Subject: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy Hello all, Up until now there has been no formal drug policy at synhak. But with several complaints and concerns raised recently I feel it is time we implement one. As a corporation we jeopardise ourselves if we just turn a blind eye. Plus working around dangerous tools while under the influence is a liability. Here is the wording I plan on submitting to the board: SYNHAK INC. will not condone, endorse, or allow the use of illegal drugs or related illegal activities including but not limited to illegal drug use, possession, sale, manufacturing, transfer, providing drugs or alcohol to a minor, or consumption of drugs or alcohol by a minor, as defined and stated in the Ohio Revised Code, any laws or set of laws pertaining to any location where SYNHAK INC. is at that time conducting business. This pertains but is not limited to agents, representatives, volunteers, members, nonmembers, employees, and contractors. I would like the hear everyone's opinion on this. Also do we need an explicit procedure for discipline or removal if needed? Please do not accuse, slander, or otherwise make this a personal matter. Keep names out of it. In excellence, Devin Wolfe Sent with AquaMail for Android http://www.aqua-mail.com ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Sincerely, Tomm Smith God bless ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy
One of SynHak's Jobs is to create an infrastructure. Keep tools stocked, lights on, insurance covered. Creating policy is a way that those things can remain. It creates the walls that protect the guests, and members financial, legal, and safety they expect. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:22 PM, Justin Herman just...@gmail.com wrote: IMO consumption of alcohol is acceptable when it follows the Ohio Revised Code, risky behavior is not undertaken, and it is done in moderation. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:19 PM, Tomm Smith root.pac...@gmail.com wrote: I agree with Seeley. I was actually going to buy a case of some craft beer for the fridge this evening, but now hesitate slightly. I would assume this is acceptable as long as practiced with mature moderation? On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:10 PM, Justin Herman just...@gmail.com wrote: I think we need to set the option for you to be excused for the day with the possibility of having membership terminated or banned for repeat/egregious behavior. Someone unwilling to cooperate to remove and mitigate the issue and safety is of concern the police should be called. I see a drug and alcohol policy as important as our safety requirements as it put everyone at risk. Not only can SynHak be held liable but the members and board who allow it to continue can be held liable. Safety is of concern as someone could personally feel they are alright to operate machinery but miss judge they capacity. These are awful concerns and no one likes to think about someone getting hurt BUT without a policy SynHak can't have a leg to stand on. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Seeley, Tim (PSA-Akron) tim.see...@psangelus.com wrote: It might need to say something about what the adult alcohol permitted behavior is. V/R Tim Seeley -Original Message- From: discuss-boun...@synhak.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@synhak.org] On Behalf Of Devin Wolfe Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 11:41 AM To: discuss@synhak.org Subject: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy Hello all, Up until now there has been no formal drug policy at synhak. But with several complaints and concerns raised recently I feel it is time we implement one. As a corporation we jeopardise ourselves if we just turn a blind eye. Plus working around dangerous tools while under the influence is a liability. Here is the wording I plan on submitting to the board: SYNHAK INC. will not condone, endorse, or allow the use of illegal drugs or related illegal activities including but not limited to illegal drug use, possession, sale, manufacturing, transfer, providing drugs or alcohol to a minor, or consumption of drugs or alcohol by a minor, as defined and stated in the Ohio Revised Code, any laws or set of laws pertaining to any location where SYNHAK INC. is at that time conducting business. This pertains but is not limited to agents, representatives, volunteers, members, nonmembers, employees, and contractors. I would like the hear everyone's opinion on this. Also do we need an explicit procedure for discipline or removal if needed? Please do not accuse, slander, or otherwise make this a personal matter. Keep names out of it. In excellence, Devin Wolfe Sent with AquaMail for Android http://www.aqua-mail.com ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Sincerely, Tomm Smith God bless ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy
Besides, without access to beer and an all nighter, how else am I supposed to make computers out of junk? (/SARCASM) On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Omar Rassi omar.ra...@gmail.com wrote: Personally, I'm not interested in policing the space, I don't come there to keep on eye on other members and visitors. The law doesn't disappear when you walk through the doors so I'm wondering why the organizing needs to apply more paperwork and wording on the subject. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Friday, March 07, 2014 12:20:05 Omar Rassi wrote: I'm taking this to mean that the liability waiver is not enough anymore. Did something happen at the space recently? I'm not exactly against this idea but so far the majority of people that come to the space and participate have been adults of sound mind. Has this gotten so out of hand that people are no longer able to look out for eachother or restrain themselves so Synhak Inc. needs to step in and become big brother? Yeah, thats my concern. I thought we were trying to stay away from pre-emptive rules and were capable of policing ourselves like adults, or having in person conversations to address issues instead of slyly bringing up board vote topics that apply to the whole membership three days before board meetings. I think we need a bylaw amendment that the agenda for a board meeting must be issued in full with any announcement. Am I allowed to bring issues up minutes before the board meeting? an hour into it? I think I'll do that. I'll propose that we stop coddling the community. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:10 PM, Justin Herman just...@gmail.com wrote: I think we need to set the option for you to be excused for the day with the possibility of having membership terminated or banned for repeat/egregious behavior. Someone unwilling to cooperate to remove and mitigate the issue and safety is of concern the police should be called. I see a drug and alcohol policy as important as our safety requirements as it put everyone at risk. Not only can SynHak be held liable but the members and board who allow it to continue can be held liable. Safety is of concern as someone could personally feel they are alright to operate machinery but miss judge they capacity. These are awful concerns and no one likes to think about someone getting hurt BUT without a policy SynHak can't have a leg to stand on. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Seeley, Tim (PSA-Akron) tim.see...@psangelus.com wrote: It might need to say something about what the adult alcohol permitted behavior is. V/R Tim Seeley -Original Message- From: discuss-boun...@synhak.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@synhak.org] On Behalf Of Devin Wolfe Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 11:41 AM To: discuss@synhak.org Subject: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy Hello all, Up until now there has been no formal drug policy at synhak. But with several complaints and concerns raised recently I feel it is time we implement one. As a corporation we jeopardise ourselves if we just turn a blind eye. Plus working around dangerous tools while under the influence is a liability. Here is the wording I plan on submitting to the board: SYNHAK INC. will not condone, endorse, or allow the use of illegal drugs or related illegal activities including but not limited to illegal drug use, possession, sale, manufacturing, transfer, providing drugs or alcohol to a minor, or consumption of drugs or alcohol by a minor, as defined and stated in the Ohio Revised Code, any laws or set of laws pertaining to any location where SYNHAK INC. is at that time conducting business. This pertains but is not limited to agents, representatives, volunteers, members, nonmembers, employees, and contractors. I would like the hear everyone's opinion on this. Also do we need an explicit procedure for discipline or removal if needed? Please do not accuse, slander, or otherwise make this a personal matter. Keep names out of it. In excellence, Devin Wolfe Sent with AquaMail for Android http://www.aqua-mail.com ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org
Re: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy
Omar, Without policy SynHak becomes compliant with legal issues in the space. SynHak created the atmosphere for X to occur. Why? Because we wanted to not have rules is not valid legal defense. ESP since it has now been brought up. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Omar Rassi omar.ra...@gmail.com wrote: Personally, I'm not interested in policing the space, I don't come there to keep on eye on other members and visitors. The law doesn't disappear when you walk through the doors so I'm wondering why the organizing needs to apply more paperwork and wording on the subject. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Friday, March 07, 2014 12:20:05 Omar Rassi wrote: I'm taking this to mean that the liability waiver is not enough anymore. Did something happen at the space recently? I'm not exactly against this idea but so far the majority of people that come to the space and participate have been adults of sound mind. Has this gotten so out of hand that people are no longer able to look out for eachother or restrain themselves so Synhak Inc. needs to step in and become big brother? Yeah, thats my concern. I thought we were trying to stay away from pre-emptive rules and were capable of policing ourselves like adults, or having in person conversations to address issues instead of slyly bringing up board vote topics that apply to the whole membership three days before board meetings. I think we need a bylaw amendment that the agenda for a board meeting must be issued in full with any announcement. Am I allowed to bring issues up minutes before the board meeting? an hour into it? I think I'll do that. I'll propose that we stop coddling the community. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:10 PM, Justin Herman just...@gmail.com wrote: I think we need to set the option for you to be excused for the day with the possibility of having membership terminated or banned for repeat/egregious behavior. Someone unwilling to cooperate to remove and mitigate the issue and safety is of concern the police should be called. I see a drug and alcohol policy as important as our safety requirements as it put everyone at risk. Not only can SynHak be held liable but the members and board who allow it to continue can be held liable. Safety is of concern as someone could personally feel they are alright to operate machinery but miss judge they capacity. These are awful concerns and no one likes to think about someone getting hurt BUT without a policy SynHak can't have a leg to stand on. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Seeley, Tim (PSA-Akron) tim.see...@psangelus.com wrote: It might need to say something about what the adult alcohol permitted behavior is. V/R Tim Seeley -Original Message- From: discuss-boun...@synhak.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@synhak.org] On Behalf Of Devin Wolfe Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 11:41 AM To: discuss@synhak.org Subject: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy Hello all, Up until now there has been no formal drug policy at synhak. But with several complaints and concerns raised recently I feel it is time we implement one. As a corporation we jeopardise ourselves if we just turn a blind eye. Plus working around dangerous tools while under the influence is a liability. Here is the wording I plan on submitting to the board: SYNHAK INC. will not condone, endorse, or allow the use of illegal drugs or related illegal activities including but not limited to illegal drug use, possession, sale, manufacturing, transfer, providing drugs or alcohol to a minor, or consumption of drugs or alcohol by a minor, as defined and stated in the Ohio Revised Code, any laws or set of laws pertaining to any location where SYNHAK INC. is at that time conducting business. This pertains but is not limited to agents, representatives, volunteers, members, nonmembers, employees, and contractors. I would like the hear everyone's opinion on this. Also do we need an explicit procedure for discipline or removal if needed? Please do not accuse, slander, or otherwise make this a personal matter. Keep names out of it. In excellence, Devin Wolfe Sent with AquaMail for Android http://www.aqua-mail.com ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo
Re: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy
Omar, Yes the restaurant can be liable IF it can be proven that the restaurant supported this activity. The issue becomes how good is our defense. Justin On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:34 PM, Omar Rassi omar.ra...@gmail.com wrote: So if someone snorts coke in a restaurant bathroom, the restaurant is liable? Again, I should emphasize, I'm not against the idea, I'm just against creating more regulation when there already exists the law. It isn't any of our business what life choices people make. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:30 PM, Justin Herman just...@gmail.com wrote: Omar, Without policy SynHak becomes compliant with legal issues in the space. SynHak created the atmosphere for X to occur. Why? Because we wanted to not have rules is not valid legal defense. ESP since it has now been brought up. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Omar Rassi omar.ra...@gmail.com wrote: Personally, I'm not interested in policing the space, I don't come there to keep on eye on other members and visitors. The law doesn't disappear when you walk through the doors so I'm wondering why the organizing needs to apply more paperwork and wording on the subject. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.net wrote: On Friday, March 07, 2014 12:20:05 Omar Rassi wrote: I'm taking this to mean that the liability waiver is not enough anymore. Did something happen at the space recently? I'm not exactly against this idea but so far the majority of people that come to the space and participate have been adults of sound mind. Has this gotten so out of hand that people are no longer able to look out for eachother or restrain themselves so Synhak Inc. needs to step in and become big brother? Yeah, thats my concern. I thought we were trying to stay away from pre-emptive rules and were capable of policing ourselves like adults, or having in person conversations to address issues instead of slyly bringing up board vote topics that apply to the whole membership three days before board meetings. I think we need a bylaw amendment that the agenda for a board meeting must be issued in full with any announcement. Am I allowed to bring issues up minutes before the board meeting? an hour into it? I think I'll do that. I'll propose that we stop coddling the community. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:10 PM, Justin Herman just...@gmail.com wrote: I think we need to set the option for you to be excused for the day with the possibility of having membership terminated or banned for repeat/egregious behavior. Someone unwilling to cooperate to remove and mitigate the issue and safety is of concern the police should be called. I see a drug and alcohol policy as important as our safety requirements as it put everyone at risk. Not only can SynHak be held liable but the members and board who allow it to continue can be held liable. Safety is of concern as someone could personally feel they are alright to operate machinery but miss judge they capacity. These are awful concerns and no one likes to think about someone getting hurt BUT without a policy SynHak can't have a leg to stand on. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Seeley, Tim (PSA-Akron) tim.see...@psangelus.com wrote: It might need to say something about what the adult alcohol permitted behavior is. V/R Tim Seeley -Original Message- From: discuss-boun...@synhak.org [mailto: discuss-boun...@synhak.org] On Behalf Of Devin Wolfe Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 11:41 AM To: discuss@synhak.org Subject: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy Hello all, Up until now there has been no formal drug policy at synhak. But with several complaints and concerns raised recently I feel it is time we implement one. As a corporation we jeopardise ourselves if we just turn a blind eye. Plus working around dangerous tools while under the influence is a liability. Here is the wording I plan on submitting to the board: SYNHAK INC. will not condone, endorse, or allow the use of illegal drugs or related illegal activities including but not limited to illegal drug use, possession, sale, manufacturing, transfer, providing drugs or alcohol to a minor, or consumption of drugs or alcohol by a minor, as defined and stated in the Ohio Revised Code, any laws or set of laws pertaining to any location where SYNHAK INC. is at that time conducting business. This pertains but is not limited to agents, representatives, volunteers, members, nonmembers, employees, and contractors. I would like the hear everyone's opinion on this. Also do we need an explicit procedure for discipline or removal if needed? Please do not accuse, slander, or otherwise make this a personal matter. Keep names out of it. In excellence, Devin Wolfe Sent with AquaMail for Android http
Re: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy
Justin, my opinion of professionalism is an organization that doesn't need these policies in order to run. With people looking out for each other and themselves, community driven responsibility, and the ability to give fearless feedback to one another, we don't need those kinds of rules on paper to appear professional. We can just be who we are without trying to dress it up. Now if we prove we aren't able regulate ourselves, then yes, lets please institute a policy and stop it. But to my knowledge there isn't a regular pattern of unprofessional incidents stemming from alcohol or drugs. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:34 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.netwrote: On Friday, March 07, 2014 12:24:47 Tomm Smith wrote: Omar, I believe for the sake of professionalism standards are being defined to professionalism? Please just no. I don't want to repeat my arguments about how professionalism runs contrary to the space. I'm really tired of it, sorry. bring protection over possible liability issues. The concerns raised with the rented space is bringing a loose thread over some legal concerns and the paperwork establishment and requirements of being a 401(c). I see this as a good thing and constructive to the community. Making the Inc. a neutral party to a common syndication of interests. I would foresee the community being strengthened by this change, but having some hiccups throughout the process of the legal definition. Just a thought though. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Omar Rassi omar.ra...@gmail.com wrote: I'm taking this to mean that the liability waiver is not enough anymore. Did something happen at the space recently? I'm not exactly against this idea but so far the majority of people that come to the space and participate have been adults of sound mind. Has this gotten so out of hand that people are no longer able to look out for eachother or restrain themselves so Synhak Inc. needs to step in and become big brother? On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:10 PM, Justin Herman just...@gmail.com wrote: I think we need to set the option for you to be excused for the day with the possibility of having membership terminated or banned for repeat/egregious behavior. Someone unwilling to cooperate to remove and mitigate the issue and safety is of concern the police should be called. I see a drug and alcohol policy as important as our safety requirements as it put everyone at risk. Not only can SynHak be held liable but the members and board who allow it to continue can be held liable. Safety is of concern as someone could personally feel they are alright to operate machinery but miss judge they capacity. These are awful concerns and no one likes to think about someone getting hurt BUT without a policy SynHak can't have a leg to stand on. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Seeley, Tim (PSA-Akron) tim.see...@psangelus.com wrote: It might need to say something about what the adult alcohol permitted behavior is. V/R Tim Seeley -Original Message- From: discuss-boun...@synhak.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@synhak.org] On Behalf Of Devin Wolfe Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 11:41 AM To: discuss@synhak.org Subject: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy Hello all, Up until now there has been no formal drug policy at synhak. But with several complaints and concerns raised recently I feel it is time we implement one. As a corporation we jeopardise ourselves if we just turn a blind eye. Plus working around dangerous tools while under the influence is a liability. Here is the wording I plan on submitting to the board: SYNHAK INC. will not condone, endorse, or allow the use of illegal drugs or related illegal activities including but not limited to illegal drug use, possession, sale, manufacturing, transfer, providing drugs or alcohol to a minor, or consumption of drugs or alcohol by a minor, as defined and stated in the Ohio Revised Code, any laws or set of laws pertaining to any location where SYNHAK INC. is at that time conducting business. This pertains but is not limited to agents, representatives, volunteers, members, nonmembers, employees, and contractors. I would like the hear everyone's opinion on this. Also do we need an explicit procedure for discipline or removal if needed? Please do not accuse, slander, or otherwise make this a personal matter. Keep names out of it. In excellence, Devin Wolfe Sent with AquaMail for Android http://www.aqua-mail.com ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy
Is Synhak on trial for an incident that we now need to defend ourselves with policy and paperwork? If its decided that we must have a drug and alcohol policy, then it should be written by a lawyer and not by us (unless a member here has a law degree). On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Omar Rassi omar.ra...@gmail.com wrote: How has Synhak supported drug use? Alcohol is in the fridge and only adults consume it. The alcohol is brought in by adults with their own money, not one dime of funds from Synhak's coffers has gone to alcohol. Beer brewing is one our supported hacking activities, do we now need to have rules on that because people are getting out of control? On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Justin Herman just...@gmail.com wrote: Omar, Yes the restaurant can be liable IF it can be proven that the restaurant supported this activity. The issue becomes how good is our defense. Justin On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:34 PM, Omar Rassi omar.ra...@gmail.com wrote: So if someone snorts coke in a restaurant bathroom, the restaurant is liable? Again, I should emphasize, I'm not against the idea, I'm just against creating more regulation when there already exists the law. It isn't any of our business what life choices people make. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:30 PM, Justin Herman just...@gmail.comwrote: Omar, Without policy SynHak becomes compliant with legal issues in the space. SynHak created the atmosphere for X to occur. Why? Because we wanted to not have rules is not valid legal defense. ESP since it has now been brought up. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Omar Rassi omar.ra...@gmail.comwrote: Personally, I'm not interested in policing the space, I don't come there to keep on eye on other members and visitors. The law doesn't disappear when you walk through the doors so I'm wondering why the organizing needs to apply more paperwork and wording on the subject. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.net wrote: On Friday, March 07, 2014 12:20:05 Omar Rassi wrote: I'm taking this to mean that the liability waiver is not enough anymore. Did something happen at the space recently? I'm not exactly against this idea but so far the majority of people that come to the space and participate have been adults of sound mind. Has this gotten so out of hand that people are no longer able to look out for eachother or restrain themselves so Synhak Inc. needs to step in and become big brother? Yeah, thats my concern. I thought we were trying to stay away from pre-emptive rules and were capable of policing ourselves like adults, or having in person conversations to address issues instead of slyly bringing up board vote topics that apply to the whole membership three days before board meetings. I think we need a bylaw amendment that the agenda for a board meeting must be issued in full with any announcement. Am I allowed to bring issues up minutes before the board meeting? an hour into it? I think I'll do that. I'll propose that we stop coddling the community. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:10 PM, Justin Herman just...@gmail.com wrote: I think we need to set the option for you to be excused for the day with the possibility of having membership terminated or banned for repeat/egregious behavior. Someone unwilling to cooperate to remove and mitigate the issue and safety is of concern the police should be called. I see a drug and alcohol policy as important as our safety requirements as it put everyone at risk. Not only can SynHak be held liable but the members and board who allow it to continue can be held liable. Safety is of concern as someone could personally feel they are alright to operate machinery but miss judge they capacity. These are awful concerns and no one likes to think about someone getting hurt BUT without a policy SynHak can't have a leg to stand on. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Seeley, Tim (PSA-Akron) tim.see...@psangelus.com wrote: It might need to say something about what the adult alcohol permitted behavior is. V/R Tim Seeley -Original Message- From: discuss-boun...@synhak.org [mailto: discuss-boun...@synhak.org] On Behalf Of Devin Wolfe Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 11:41 AM To: discuss@synhak.org Subject: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy Hello all, Up until now there has been no formal drug policy at synhak. But with several complaints and concerns raised recently I feel it is time we implement one. As a corporation we jeopardise ourselves if we just turn a blind eye. Plus working around dangerous tools while under the influence is a liability. Here is the wording I plan on submitting to the board: SYNHAK INC. will not condone, endorse, or allow the use of illegal drugs or related illegal activities including but not limited to illegal drug
Re: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy
On Friday, March 07, 2014 12:34:12 Torrie Fischer wrote: On Friday, March 07, 2014 12:24:47 Tomm Smith wrote: Omar, I believe for the sake of professionalism standards are being defined to professionalism? Please just no. I don't want to repeat my arguments about how professionalism runs contrary to the space. I'm really tired of it, sorry. Sorry, that was an inappropriate and unexcellent response. I think you're looking for more of a makerspace than a hackerspace. I'd love to help get one started. bring protection over possible liability issues. The concerns raised with the rented space is bringing a loose thread over some legal concerns and the paperwork establishment and requirements of being a 401(c). I see this as a good thing and constructive to the community. Making the Inc. a neutral party to a common syndication of interests. I would foresee the community being strengthened by this change, but having some hiccups throughout the process of the legal definition. Just a thought though. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Omar Rassi omar.ra...@gmail.com wrote: I'm taking this to mean that the liability waiver is not enough anymore. Did something happen at the space recently? I'm not exactly against this idea but so far the majority of people that come to the space and participate have been adults of sound mind. Has this gotten so out of hand that people are no longer able to look out for eachother or restrain themselves so Synhak Inc. needs to step in and become big brother? On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:10 PM, Justin Herman just...@gmail.com wrote: I think we need to set the option for you to be excused for the day with the possibility of having membership terminated or banned for repeat/egregious behavior. Someone unwilling to cooperate to remove and mitigate the issue and safety is of concern the police should be called. I see a drug and alcohol policy as important as our safety requirements as it put everyone at risk. Not only can SynHak be held liable but the members and board who allow it to continue can be held liable. Safety is of concern as someone could personally feel they are alright to operate machinery but miss judge they capacity. These are awful concerns and no one likes to think about someone getting hurt BUT without a policy SynHak can't have a leg to stand on. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Seeley, Tim (PSA-Akron) tim.see...@psangelus.com wrote: It might need to say something about what the adult alcohol permitted behavior is. V/R Tim Seeley -Original Message- From: discuss-boun...@synhak.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@synhak.org] On Behalf Of Devin Wolfe Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 11:41 AM To: discuss@synhak.org Subject: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy Hello all, Up until now there has been no formal drug policy at synhak. But with several complaints and concerns raised recently I feel it is time we implement one. As a corporation we jeopardise ourselves if we just turn a blind eye. Plus working around dangerous tools while under the influence is a liability. Here is the wording I plan on submitting to the board: SYNHAK INC. will not condone, endorse, or allow the use of illegal drugs or related illegal activities including but not limited to illegal drug use, possession, sale, manufacturing, transfer, providing drugs or alcohol to a minor, or consumption of drugs or alcohol by a minor, as defined and stated in the Ohio Revised Code, any laws or set of laws pertaining to any location where SYNHAK INC. is at that time conducting business. This pertains but is not limited to agents, representatives, volunteers, members, nonmembers, employees, and contractors. I would like the hear everyone's opinion on this. Also do we need an explicit procedure for discipline or removal if needed? Please do not accuse, slander, or otherwise make this a personal matter. Keep names out of it. In excellence, Devin Wolfe Sent with AquaMail for Android http://www.aqua-mail.com ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy
think we need to set the option for you to be excused for the day with the possibility of having membership terminated or banned for repeat/egregious behavior. Someone unwilling to cooperate to remove and mitigate the issue and safety is of concern the police should be called. I see a drug and alcohol policy as important as our safety requirements as it put everyone at risk. Not only can SynHak be held liable but the members and board who allow it to continue can be held liable. Safety is of concern as someone could personally feel they are alright to operate machinery but miss judge they capacity. These are awful concerns and no one likes to think about someone getting hurt BUT without a policy SynHak can't have a leg to stand on. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Seeley, Tim (PSA-Akron) tim.see...@psangelus.com wrote: It might need to say something about what the adult alcohol permitted behavior is. V/R Tim Seeley -Original Message- From: discuss-boun...@synhak.org [mailto: discuss-boun...@synhak.org] On Behalf Of Devin Wolfe Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 11:41 AM To: discuss@synhak.org Subject: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy Hello all, Up until now there has been no formal drug policy at synhak. But with several complaints and concerns raised recently I feel it is time we implement one. As a corporation we jeopardise ourselves if we just turn a blind eye. Plus working around dangerous tools while under the influence is a liability. Here is the wording I plan on submitting to the board: SYNHAK INC. will not condone, endorse, or allow the use of illegal drugs or related illegal activities including but not limited to illegal drug use, possession, sale, manufacturing, transfer, providing drugs or alcohol to a minor, or consumption of drugs or alcohol by a minor, as defined and stated in the Ohio Revised Code, any laws or set of laws pertaining to any location where SYNHAK INC. is at that time conducting business. This pertains but is not limited to agents, representatives, volunteers, members, nonmembers, employees, and contractors. I would like the hear everyone's opinion on this. Also do we need an explicit procedure for discipline or removal if needed? Please do not accuse, slander, or otherwise make this a personal matter. Keep names out of it. In excellence, Devin Wolfe Sent with AquaMail for Android http://www.aqua-mail.com ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Sincerely, Tomm Smith God bless -- Sincerely, Tomm Smith God bless ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy
is of concern the police should be called. I see a drug and alcohol policy as important as our safety requirements as it put everyone at risk. Not only can SynHak be held liable but the members and board who allow it to continue can be held liable. Safety is of concern as someone could personally feel they are alright to operate machinery but miss judge they capacity. These are awful concerns and no one likes to think about someone getting hurt BUT without a policy SynHak can't have a leg to stand on. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Seeley, Tim (PSA-Akron) tim.see...@psangelus.com wrote: It might need to say something about what the adult alcohol permitted behavior is. V/R Tim Seeley -Original Message- From: discuss-boun...@synhak.org [mailto: discuss-boun...@synhak.org] On Behalf Of Devin Wolfe Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 11:41 AM To: discuss@synhak.org Subject: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy Hello all, Up until now there has been no formal drug policy at synhak. But with several complaints and concerns raised recently I feel it is time we implement one. As a corporation we jeopardise ourselves if we just turn a blind eye. Plus working around dangerous tools while under the influence is a liability. Here is the wording I plan on submitting to the board: SYNHAK INC. will not condone, endorse, or allow the use of illegal drugs or related illegal activities including but not limited to illegal drug use, possession, sale, manufacturing, transfer, providing drugs or alcohol to a minor, or consumption of drugs or alcohol by a minor, as defined and stated in the Ohio Revised Code, any laws or set of laws pertaining to any location where SYNHAK INC. is at that time conducting business. This pertains but is not limited to agents, representatives, volunteers, members, nonmembers, employees, and contractors. I would like the hear everyone's opinion on this. Also do we need an explicit procedure for discipline or removal if needed? Please do not accuse, slander, or otherwise make this a personal matter. Keep names out of it. In excellence, Devin Wolfe Sent with AquaMail for Android http://www.aqua-mail.com ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Sincerely, Tomm Smith God bless ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy
...@gmail.comwrote: Personally, I'm not interested in policing the space, I don't come there to keep on eye on other members and visitors. The law doesn't disappear when you walk through the doors so I'm wondering why the organizing needs to apply more paperwork and wording on the subject. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Torrie Fischer tdfisc...@hackerbots.net wrote: On Friday, March 07, 2014 12:20:05 Omar Rassi wrote: I'm taking this to mean that the liability waiver is not enough anymore. Did something happen at the space recently? I'm not exactly against this idea but so far the majority of people that come to the space and participate have been adults of sound mind. Has this gotten so out of hand that people are no longer able to look out for eachother or restrain themselves so Synhak Inc. needs to step in and become big brother? Yeah, thats my concern. I thought we were trying to stay away from pre-emptive rules and were capable of policing ourselves like adults, or having in person conversations to address issues instead of slyly bringing up board vote topics that apply to the whole membership three days before board meetings. I think we need a bylaw amendment that the agenda for a board meeting must be issued in full with any announcement. Am I allowed to bring issues up minutes before the board meeting? an hour into it? I think I'll do that. I'll propose that we stop coddling the community. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:10 PM, Justin Herman just...@gmail.com wrote: I think we need to set the option for you to be excused for the day with the possibility of having membership terminated or banned for repeat/egregious behavior. Someone unwilling to cooperate to remove and mitigate the issue and safety is of concern the police should be called. I see a drug and alcohol policy as important as our safety requirements as it put everyone at risk. Not only can SynHak be held liable but the members and board who allow it to continue can be held liable. Safety is of concern as someone could personally feel they are alright to operate machinery but miss judge they capacity. These are awful concerns and no one likes to think about someone getting hurt BUT without a policy SynHak can't have a leg to stand on. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Seeley, Tim (PSA-Akron) tim.see...@psangelus.com wrote: It might need to say something about what the adult alcohol permitted behavior is. V/R Tim Seeley -Original Message- From: discuss-boun...@synhak.org [mailto: discuss-boun...@synhak.org] On Behalf Of Devin Wolfe Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 11:41 AM To: discuss@synhak.org Subject: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy Hello all, Up until now there has been no formal drug policy at synhak. But with several complaints and concerns raised recently I feel it is time we implement one. As a corporation we jeopardise ourselves if we just turn a blind eye. Plus working around dangerous tools while under the influence is a liability. Here is the wording I plan on submitting to the board: SYNHAK INC. will not condone, endorse, or allow the use of illegal drugs or related illegal activities including but not limited to illegal drug use, possession, sale, manufacturing, transfer, providing drugs or alcohol to a minor, or consumption of drugs or alcohol by a minor, as defined and stated in the Ohio Revised Code, any laws or set of laws pertaining to any location where SYNHAK INC. is at that time conducting business. This pertains but is not limited to agents, representatives, volunteers, members, nonmembers, employees, and contractors. I would like the hear everyone's opinion on this. Also do we need an explicit procedure for discipline or removal if needed? Please do not accuse, slander, or otherwise make this a personal matter. Keep names out of it. In excellence, Devin Wolfe Sent with AquaMail for Android http://www.aqua-mail.com ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list
