subject:"\[Elecraft\] P3 Panadapter"

The Agilent MXA's tout their speep speed... You can easily get them
upwards of around 30 to 40+ sweeps/sec. ;)

~Brett


On Sun, 2010-02-14 at 21:50 -0800, Alan Bloom wrote:
> On Sat, 2010-02-13 at 17:18 -0800, Brett Howard wrote:
> > I'm waiting for someone to take a VIDEO so that we can see the refresh
> > rate of the thing  
> 
> Currently about 20 Hz (50 ms).
> 
> > But from the sounds of it it sounds like there
> > are still a lot of optimizations that are going on to attempt to improve
> > that refresh rate...
> 
> There's room for further optimization, but frankly even 20 Hz is
> starting to get a little too fast IMHO.  At some point the spectrum
> trace is changing so fast it starts to look fuzzy.  Also a slower trace
> gives a longer history on the waterfall display.
> 
> Alan N1AL
> 
> 


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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-14 Thread Alan Bloom

On Sat, 2010-02-13 at 17:18 -0800, Brett Howard wrote:
> I'm waiting for someone to take a VIDEO so that we can see the refresh
> rate of the thing  

Currently about 20 Hz (50 ms).

> But from the sounds of it it sounds like there
> are still a lot of optimizations that are going on to attempt to improve
> that refresh rate...

There's room for further optimization, but frankly even 20 Hz is
starting to get a little too fast IMHO.  At some point the spectrum
trace is changing so fast it starts to look fuzzy.  Also a slower trace
gives a longer history on the waterfall display.

Alan N1AL


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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

You've got that bugger running fast!  Good on ya!  Now I just hope with
all hope that I can get one in my hands before FD!

~Brett (KC7OTG)

On Sun, 2010-02-14 at 21:47 -0800, Alan Bloom wrote:
> The P3 will be available as a "no solder" kit like the K3 as well as an
> assembled unit.
> 
> Alan N1AL
> 
> On Sat, 2010-02-13 at 17:32 -0800, Phil Hystad wrote:
> > Does anyone know if this is a kit (likely a simple kit?) or something that 
> > is all ready to be plugged in and used?
> > 
> > 73, phil, K7PEH
> > 
> > 
> > __
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-14 Thread Alan Bloom

The P3 will be available as a "no solder" kit like the K3 as well as an
assembled unit.

Alan N1AL

On Sat, 2010-02-13 at 17:32 -0800, Phil Hystad wrote:
> Does anyone know if this is a kit (likely a simple kit?) or something that is 
> all ready to be plugged in and used?
> 
> 73, phil, K7PEH
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-14 Thread Eric Swartz -WA6HHQ, Elecraft

Gentlemen  - Let's end this OT part of the thread and take it to direct 
email.

(Also, as a general note to everyone, please stop copying 100% of  prior 
posts in each reply. It clogs the reflector and digests. And it makes it 
painful to read for those of us reading email using PDAs like the 
Motorola Droid.)

73,
Eric   WA6HHQ
Elecraft List Moderator
-

S Sacco wrote:
> Brett -
>
> You're drawing an arbitrary line in the sand.
>
> Your original statement was " All of that equipment was made by teams
> of Chinese people who are paid very poorly and aren't treated all that
> well either."
>
> My point was that the people churning out those chips probably fall
> into the same category.  But you knew that.
_..._

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-14 Thread S Sacco

Brett -

You're drawing an arbitrary line in the sand.

Your original statement was " All of that equipment was made by teams
of Chinese people who are paid very poorly and aren't treated all that
well either."

My point was that the people churning out those chips probably fall
into the same category.  But you knew that.

Regarding local design/support, I am "for" wherever I can get the best
team.  Elecraft provides excellent support, and it's based in the
U.S., which is "local" for you and me, but maybe not so much for our
friends in other countries - but since it's so excellent, I don't
think they're complaining.

73,

Steve
NN4X







On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 4:40 PM, Brett Howard  wrote:
> Sure I can comment on the origin of parts:
>
> There is nothing one can do about the origin of the parts...  I work in
> the electronics design industry as well and there really is nothing you
> can build if you're only willing to use parts made in the USA.  But
> there is a LOT to be said about designed and manufactured locally.  Its
> more expensive but it does give you better control to more quickly
> respond to problems.  And I don't just mean "made in the USA" I mean
> made where the design team is.
>
> I'm not pulling the whole USA is better than anyone else in everything
> garbage.  I just feel that if the design team is in Germany that the
> best place to make it is Germany if you want quality and the ability to
> quickly respond to issues.  Same holds true if a product is designed in
> China.
>
> ~Brett
>
> On Sun, 2010-02-14 at 11:48 -0500, S Sacco wrote:
>> Hi Brett -
>>
>> I seriously think you're missing the point.  The point was that other
>> companies offer support, too, and they do.  I agreed that Elecraft
>> support is outstanding, so I'm pretty sure we're in agreement there.
>>
>> I note that you did not comment on the origin of the components inside
>> the K3.  ;-)
>>
>> While I like my K3's, I think  you're romanticizing Elecraft.  They're
>> a for-profit business, and although staffed with passionate and highly
>> talented people,  I'm sure would close their doors if they could not
>> turn a profit, which is entirely appropriate.  I don't want anyone
>> starving just to keep me happy - that would be Communism.  Perhaps I'm
>> alone in this regard, but I don't have an image in my mind of a wildly
>> outnumbered band of Elecraftians ("Elecraftites"?) fighting valiantly
>> on my behalf for all that's good and right and 10 dB better, versus
>> the vastly larger, massed, swarming technical armies of YaeKenCom-Tec.
>>
>> Regarding me not being forced to purchase the K3.  Brett, I've had
>> this discussion MANY times, and have never once lost the argument.  I
>> was not, IMHO, particularly upstanding of Elecraft to publish a wildly
>> optimistic release date, and then continue to publish wildly
>> optimistic follow-on dates, most likely for the purpose of maintaining
>> their existing orders, and attracting new ones.  Wrong is just wrong,
>> you know what I mean?  Just because I could have chosen something else
>> doesn't make what Elecraft did OK.  Those, apparently like yourself,
>> who have a lower threshold for what's ethical...that's your business,
>> but that doesn't mean I have to agree, or lower MY standards,  or not
>> raise the issue when I feel it is appropriate.  I sure hope they ship
>> the P3 when they say they'll ship it.  I may be wrong, but I think
>> they did the same thing - strung out the release date - with the KRX3,
>> didn't they?
>>
>> My goodness...I haven't said a peep in ages...yet, bewilderingly, you
>> say: "someone who complains so much about the products you sure hang
>> out here a lot. ".  If, by "hang out here a lot", you mean "subscribe
>> to the mailing list", then guilty as charged.  I also subscribe to the
>> k3 mailing list on Yahoo.  Hope that's cool with you.  :-)
>>
>> You're hardly "calling me out".    (see above regarding the frequency
>> of my posting).
>>
>> Sooo...the bottom line is that I think $700 is an awful lot of money
>> for the P3, and I said so, and you don't think it's too much, and
>> you've criticized me for expressing my opinion.
>>
>> Speaking of K3's, I have to finish putting one of mine back together.
>> U1 on the DSP board burned out (thanks, Gary, for the fast support on
>> that!) - but it shouldn't have (AF amplifiers are hardly high-tech).
>> Originally, I ordered a new DSP board, but after a couple of week's
>> waiting and no notice of shipping, I made an inquiry, only to find
>> that they weren't in stock, and wouldn't be for a few more weeks.
>> (Thanks Lisa for your help with that!).   So, once again, we have
>> great support on one hand, and a strange disconnect (no notification
>> that the board wouldn't be available for awhile) on the other.  I went
>> to "Plan B", and had a friend of mine who has SMT experience and
>> equipment, and he replaced the IC for me.  I won't get the updates,
>> but they're not that important to me.
>>
>

Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

Sure I can comment on the origin of parts:

There is nothing one can do about the origin of the parts...  I work in
the electronics design industry as well and there really is nothing you
can build if you're only willing to use parts made in the USA.  But
there is a LOT to be said about designed and manufactured locally.  Its
more expensive but it does give you better control to more quickly
respond to problems.  And I don't just mean "made in the USA" I mean
made where the design team is. 

I'm not pulling the whole USA is better than anyone else in everything
garbage.  I just feel that if the design team is in Germany that the
best place to make it is Germany if you want quality and the ability to
quickly respond to issues.  Same holds true if a product is designed in
China.  

~Brett

On Sun, 2010-02-14 at 11:48 -0500, S Sacco wrote:
> Hi Brett -
> 
> I seriously think you're missing the point.  The point was that other
> companies offer support, too, and they do.  I agreed that Elecraft
> support is outstanding, so I'm pretty sure we're in agreement there.
> 
> I note that you did not comment on the origin of the components inside
> the K3.  ;-)
> 
> While I like my K3's, I think  you're romanticizing Elecraft.  They're
> a for-profit business, and although staffed with passionate and highly
> talented people,  I'm sure would close their doors if they could not
> turn a profit, which is entirely appropriate.  I don't want anyone
> starving just to keep me happy - that would be Communism.  Perhaps I'm
> alone in this regard, but I don't have an image in my mind of a wildly
> outnumbered band of Elecraftians ("Elecraftites"?) fighting valiantly
> on my behalf for all that's good and right and 10 dB better, versus
> the vastly larger, massed, swarming technical armies of YaeKenCom-Tec.
> 
> Regarding me not being forced to purchase the K3.  Brett, I've had
> this discussion MANY times, and have never once lost the argument.  I
> was not, IMHO, particularly upstanding of Elecraft to publish a wildly
> optimistic release date, and then continue to publish wildly
> optimistic follow-on dates, most likely for the purpose of maintaining
> their existing orders, and attracting new ones.  Wrong is just wrong,
> you know what I mean?  Just because I could have chosen something else
> doesn't make what Elecraft did OK.  Those, apparently like yourself,
> who have a lower threshold for what's ethical...that's your business,
> but that doesn't mean I have to agree, or lower MY standards,  or not
> raise the issue when I feel it is appropriate.  I sure hope they ship
> the P3 when they say they'll ship it.  I may be wrong, but I think
> they did the same thing - strung out the release date - with the KRX3,
> didn't they?
> 
> My goodness...I haven't said a peep in ages...yet, bewilderingly, you
> say: "someone who complains so much about the products you sure hang
> out here a lot. ".  If, by "hang out here a lot", you mean "subscribe
> to the mailing list", then guilty as charged.  I also subscribe to the
> k3 mailing list on Yahoo.  Hope that's cool with you.  :-)
> 
> You're hardly "calling me out".(see above regarding the frequency
> of my posting).
> 
> Sooo...the bottom line is that I think $700 is an awful lot of money
> for the P3, and I said so, and you don't think it's too much, and
> you've criticized me for expressing my opinion.
> 
> Speaking of K3's, I have to finish putting one of mine back together.
> U1 on the DSP board burned out (thanks, Gary, for the fast support on
> that!) - but it shouldn't have (AF amplifiers are hardly high-tech).
> Originally, I ordered a new DSP board, but after a couple of week's
> waiting and no notice of shipping, I made an inquiry, only to find
> that they weren't in stock, and wouldn't be for a few more weeks.
> (Thanks Lisa for your help with that!).   So, once again, we have
> great support on one hand, and a strange disconnect (no notification
> that the board wouldn't be available for awhile) on the other.  I went
> to "Plan B", and had a friend of mine who has SMT experience and
> equipment, and he replaced the IC for me.  I won't get the updates,
> but they're not that important to me.
> 
> Take good care, Brett!
> 
> 73,
> Steve NN4X
> EL98jh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 3:59 AM, Brett Howard  wrote:
> > Hell Yaesu has a great website with lots of information.  Try giving
> > them a call and getting them to help you debug an issue!  Try emailing
> > a designer!  If you think Microsoft and HP provides excellent support
> > of their products you have a low standard.
> >
> > As far as your K3 arriving later than you thought it would its not
> > like you were forced into waiting for it.  If you wanted your money
> > back you'd have been handed all of your payment in full no questions
> > asked.  EVERYONE who ordered a K3 that early KNEW that it was going to
> > take a long time.  Mine took around 10 months to get from the time
> > that I ordered it.

Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-14 Thread S Sacco

Hi Brett -

I seriously think you're missing the point.  The point was that other
companies offer support, too, and they do.  I agreed that Elecraft
support is outstanding, so I'm pretty sure we're in agreement there.

I note that you did not comment on the origin of the components inside
the K3.  ;-)

While I like my K3's, I think  you're romanticizing Elecraft.  They're
a for-profit business, and although staffed with passionate and highly
talented people,  I'm sure would close their doors if they could not
turn a profit, which is entirely appropriate.  I don't want anyone
starving just to keep me happy - that would be Communism.  Perhaps I'm
alone in this regard, but I don't have an image in my mind of a wildly
outnumbered band of Elecraftians ("Elecraftites"?) fighting valiantly
on my behalf for all that's good and right and 10 dB better, versus
the vastly larger, massed, swarming technical armies of YaeKenCom-Tec.

Regarding me not being forced to purchase the K3.  Brett, I've had
this discussion MANY times, and have never once lost the argument.  I
was not, IMHO, particularly upstanding of Elecraft to publish a wildly
optimistic release date, and then continue to publish wildly
optimistic follow-on dates, most likely for the purpose of maintaining
their existing orders, and attracting new ones.  Wrong is just wrong,
you know what I mean?  Just because I could have chosen something else
doesn't make what Elecraft did OK.  Those, apparently like yourself,
who have a lower threshold for what's ethical...that's your business,
but that doesn't mean I have to agree, or lower MY standards,  or not
raise the issue when I feel it is appropriate.  I sure hope they ship
the P3 when they say they'll ship it.  I may be wrong, but I think
they did the same thing - strung out the release date - with the KRX3,
didn't they?

My goodness...I haven't said a peep in ages...yet, bewilderingly, you
say: "someone who complains so much about the products you sure hang
out here a lot. ".  If, by "hang out here a lot", you mean "subscribe
to the mailing list", then guilty as charged.  I also subscribe to the
k3 mailing list on Yahoo.  Hope that's cool with you.  :-)

You're hardly "calling me out".(see above regarding the frequency
of my posting).

Sooo...the bottom line is that I think $700 is an awful lot of money
for the P3, and I said so, and you don't think it's too much, and
you've criticized me for expressing my opinion.

Speaking of K3's, I have to finish putting one of mine back together.
U1 on the DSP board burned out (thanks, Gary, for the fast support on
that!) - but it shouldn't have (AF amplifiers are hardly high-tech).
Originally, I ordered a new DSP board, but after a couple of week's
waiting and no notice of shipping, I made an inquiry, only to find
that they weren't in stock, and wouldn't be for a few more weeks.
(Thanks Lisa for your help with that!).   So, once again, we have
great support on one hand, and a strange disconnect (no notification
that the board wouldn't be available for awhile) on the other.  I went
to "Plan B", and had a friend of mine who has SMT experience and
equipment, and he replaced the IC for me.  I won't get the updates,
but they're not that important to me.

Take good care, Brett!

73,
Steve NN4X
EL98jh

On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 3:59 AM, Brett Howard  wrote:
> Hell Yaesu has a great website with lots of information.  Try giving
> them a call and getting them to help you debug an issue!  Try emailing
> a designer!  If you think Microsoft and HP provides excellent support
> of their products you have a low standard.
>
> As far as your K3 arriving later than you thought it would its not
> like you were forced into waiting for it.  If you wanted your money
> back you'd have been handed all of your payment in full no questions
> asked.  EVERYONE who ordered a K3 that early KNEW that it was going to
> take a long time.  Mine took around 10 months to get from the time
> that I ordered it.  I knew it was going to take that long and hell
> they didn't even take my money until they shipped it.
>
> The K3 was sold just in time and it was plenty ready as far as
> hardware goes.  The list of changes in the radio as far as hardware
> are quite small.  The changes are minor tweaks for the most part as
> well!  Heck some of them are even improvements that add features that
> no one was even expecting (like the high RF protection mod).
>
> For someone who complains so much about the products you sure hang out
> here a lot.  If they were as bad as you like to let on one would think
> you'd have gone somewhere else.  I feel the fact that you stick around
> and keep complaining undeniable proof that Elecraft does it better
> than anyone else.  That fact that you voted with your money and own
> their products solidify it even further.
>
> I only feel the need to call you out on it because someone else coming
> into this area who's not used to hearing you complain might get the
> wrong idea and th

Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-14 Thread Jeff KB2M

  I'm running SDR-IF 192k wide on a $399 3 year old 2.20 gigahertz Pentium
Dual Non hyper-threaded processor with 2 gig of memory under WIN7 32 bit. I
have a $229 24 inch monitor, and a used Infrasonic Quartet soundcard I
picked up for $90.The SDR-IF software uses about 25% of the screens real
estate. I just tested SDR-IF's CPU usage. It is under 17% average. I just
watched a video I selected from MSN, it uses on average 44% CPU. Along with
LP-Bridge running I can use several programs simultaneously with the K3 When
in contest mode I run SDR-IF, LP-Bridge, Logic8, and contest specific
logging software. I can control the K3 with either piece of software via the
virtual com ports in LP-Bridge, via a mouse click, or turn of a knob. While
this is up and running I read email, view videos, chat with my GF's on
Yahoo, MSN, etc without a burp, and without any geek type system tweaking,
plug and play. This to me is the ultimate shack setup made possible with the
K3's IF out. I'm one of the people Larry mentions that switched over from
Flex. I owned a Flex 1000 for several years. Part of my preference to the
SDR-IF software is I've been running it for 4 or 5 years.
 Do I need a P3? No, and I don't see myself lusting for one. Where I think
Elecraft is going with this is to a QRO rig. This K4 if you will, will be
200 watts output, have a bandscope (the one we see today) built in, room for
actual band select buttons, more room between knobs, more knobs, less menu
items, a nice set of dual speakers, etc. A 70cm module and the ability to
run full duplex on the satellites would be nice. I would sell my 9000D and
buy one of them. Ok enough, the sun is shining, I'm obviously snowed in
here, and need to get out of the house :>) 
 

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Julian, G4ILO
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 12:12 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation
>But I'm equally sure there are a lot of people who don't want the huge ugly
screen hogging
>resource hogging PowerSDR application just to show them a graphical display
of band activity. 

73 Jeff kb2m


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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-14 Thread John Ronan


On 14 Feb 2010, at 08:59, Brett Howard wrote:

> As far as your K3 arriving later than you thought it would its not
> like you were forced into waiting for it.
Um mine (2184) arrived earlier than I was expecting, about 6 weeks actually.  
Made me a very happy chappie.

de John
EI7IG
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

Hell Yaesu has a great website with lots of information.  Try giving
them a call and getting them to help you debug an issue!  Try emailing
a designer!  If you think Microsoft and HP provides excellent support
of their products you have a low standard.

As far as your K3 arriving later than you thought it would its not
like you were forced into waiting for it.  If you wanted your money
back you'd have been handed all of your payment in full no questions
asked.  EVERYONE who ordered a K3 that early KNEW that it was going to
take a long time.  Mine took around 10 months to get from the time
that I ordered it.  I knew it was going to take that long and hell
they didn't even take my money until they shipped it.

The K3 was sold just in time and it was plenty ready as far as
hardware goes.  The list of changes in the radio as far as hardware
are quite small.  The changes are minor tweaks for the most part as
well!  Heck some of them are even improvements that add features that
no one was even expecting (like the high RF protection mod).

For someone who complains so much about the products you sure hang out
here a lot.  If they were as bad as you like to let on one would think
you'd have gone somewhere else.  I feel the fact that you stick around
and keep complaining undeniable proof that Elecraft does it better
than anyone else.  That fact that you voted with your money and own
their products solidify it even further.

I only feel the need to call you out on it because someone else coming
into this area who's not used to hearing you complain might get the
wrong idea and think that there is actually a problem with the way
Elecraft does business!  When really its just that you like to get
your gripes heard early and often.

~Brett (KC7OTG)

On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 7:38 PM, S Sacco  wrote:
> Brett -
>
> While we're thinking about stuff...where do you suppose most of the
> components inside the P3 were manufactured?
>
> Regarding support...I don't know...HP (hardware) and Microsoft (OS)
> seem to have pretty large websites with lots of information on
> them...and plenty of updates...especially Microsoft security patches
> that they so like to dump on us every few Tuesdays.  :-)
>
> Yeah, Elecraft support is excellent, but the flip side is that the
> company has a tendency to sell products that are not quite ready yet.
> I know; my first K3 was delivered 9 months after it was first
> promised.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 7:43 PM, Brett Howard  wrote:
>> All of that equipment was made by teams of Chinese people who are paid
>> very poorly and aren't treated all that well either.  The P3 is a labor
>> of love put together by a select few engineers.  Its probably built by
>> people in California with health coverage, life insurance, and a decent
>> living wage...
>>
>> Not to mention that Elecraft provides excellent support beyond that of
>> the sale!  You're not going to get that from the company that made that
>> computer.  You're not going to be informed of hardware modifications and
>> upgrades that will improve your system with well done step by step
>> documentation written up on how to perform the mods.  Not to mention
>> that they'll even kit the parts to you if you can't find them on your
>> own.  You get more than just the hardware for your 700 bucks!
>>
>> Just something to think about!  Personally I see it as a little high but
>> still yet very fair!
>>
>> ~Brett (KC7OTG)
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-13 Thread N8LP

You're comparing apples to oranges, Joe. PowerSDR and other SDR apps which
use sound card interfaces have to process a whole lot more data than the K3
does. So do the sound cards and their drivers. The K3 is concerned with the
speech passband, while many of the SDR apps process hundreds of kHz worth of
bandwidth in realtime.

For kicks, I just ran a quick test using LP-PAN/PowerSDR-IF v1.19.02. I
compared the timing of the K3 output to the PC sound card output for 7
different sound cards on two PCs, an older P4 desktop and a year old, dual
core laptop. I also tried several different SDR apps, but not all the apps
were capable of providing sound card output with all the cards. I used 192
kHz sampling whenever possible, with a buffer setting of 2K and ASIO driver.

In general, I found a delay range of about 15-30mS, depending on card, app
and sample rate. With the popular E-MU 0202 USB card and PowerSDR-IF at 192
kHz using the standard settings, the result was 21mS (1/50 of a second) on
my laptop. PowerSDR was no worse than the other apps.

The delay has never really bothered me. I don't listen to both the K3 and
PowerSDR at the same time... at least not the same signal. I mainly listen
to PowerSDR in MultiRX mode when running split so that I have dual
receivers, or when listening to AM broadcast. Otherwise, I just listen to
the K3 and use PowerSDR only as a pan display.

Contrary to your comment that PowerSDR is the worst part of the Flex radios,
a lot of Flex owners only migrated to the K3 after seeing that they could
still use PowerSDR, which was their favorite part of the Flex radio. I have
heard this comment more times than I can count.

73,
Larry N8LP

> Don't forget that the LP Pan allows you to run the SDR-IF
> software suite.

Why would you brag about bringing the worst part of the
Flex-radio to the K3? PowerSDR is the worst interface
in the world for a radio ... the FFT delays make the
K3 monitor sound instantaneous.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-13 Thread S Sacco

Brett -

While we're thinking about stuff...where do you suppose most of the
components inside the P3 were manufactured?

Regarding support...I don't know...HP (hardware) and Microsoft (OS)
seem to have pretty large websites with lots of information on
them...and plenty of updates...especially Microsoft security patches
that they so like to dump on us every few Tuesdays.  :-)

Yeah, Elecraft support is excellent, but the flip side is that the
company has a tendency to sell products that are not quite ready yet.
I know; my first K3 was delivered 9 months after it was first
promised.

On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 7:43 PM, Brett Howard  wrote:
> All of that equipment was made by teams of Chinese people who are paid
> very poorly and aren't treated all that well either.  The P3 is a labor
> of love put together by a select few engineers.  Its probably built by
> people in California with health coverage, life insurance, and a decent
> living wage...
>
> Not to mention that Elecraft provides excellent support beyond that of
> the sale!  You're not going to get that from the company that made that
> computer.  You're not going to be informed of hardware modifications and
> upgrades that will improve your system with well done step by step
> documentation written up on how to perform the mods.  Not to mention
> that they'll even kit the parts to you if you can't find them on your
> own.  You get more than just the hardware for your 700 bucks!
>
> Just something to think about!  Personally I see it as a little high but
> still yet very fair!
>
> ~Brett (KC7OTG)
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-13 Thread Ted Roycraft

I had the IC756PRO series from 2001 to last August and at first I was 
impressed with the scope function but in a short time I found that it 
was not terribly useful but was fun to look at.  It was lacking a 
waterfall capability which the P3 (as well as PowerSDR-IF) had which 
makes all the difference.  Also, the bandwidth displayed by the 756PRO 
is much less than that capable of the P3 and PowerDDR-IF.  I'm afraid 
that the scope display of the 756PRO doesn't come close to the 
usefulness P3, from what I've seen, or to PowerSDR-IF.

73, Ted, W2ZK

On 2/13/2010 8:04 PM, KM4VX wrote:
> The P3 looks and appears to act much like the excellent screen which is
> integrated into my IC 756 PRO 3. Since we like the K3 so much Elecraft
> decided to compete with a separate panadapter like the P3,  rather than a
> K4. I think the LP-PAN  kit for $175.00, with free software connected to a
> computer that anyone who wants a panadapter has anyway,  represents a much
> better  investment for me. I can run all sorts of software with the LP-PAN.
> The P3 is just the scope addition to the 756 in its own box. I don't think
> the  P3 market is there except as we are now marketing it. This is a
> sophisticated and tech savvy group; maybe just too loose with its cash  Of
> course I will be proven wrong, which is okay because I wish the company all
> the best.
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-13 Thread Don Wilhelm

To all,

Let's stay cool on the speculation here for a while until more facts are 
available.  Eric is in Orlando, and I am certain when he returns, there 
will be information on the Elecraft website about the P3, and maybe even 
the price.  Wait until at least Wednesday so Eric can clear his email 
overload on Monday and Tuesday!

The cost of the P3 will be what it can be.  Elecraft must figure out how 
is allocated to the R & D budget, how much for productions costs, etc.
Eric and Wayne will make that cost as low as practical - IMHO, there is 
no sense in us speculating on how much it should be.
In the end, we each will have to make our decisions based on our own 
perceived value-added for our operating experience.

I for one will not likely buy the P3, maybe later, but definitely not at 
this time.  I do not have need nor desire for a standalone panoramic 
display.  Yes, I am working on a Z1/Softrock solution to add that 
function to my K3.  I do not mind having a computer up and running while 
I am hamming - that is a normal state of affairs for me.  I will wait 
and see how my homebrew LP-PAN works out for me - I foresee benefit when 
I run digital modes, but just how much remains to be seen - I may or may 
not like it.

The bottom line is - All this haggling about what the top price should 
be - well, that is your individual clip point - it will not be the same 
for everyone.  Some will buy it at any cost, just because it is Elecraft 
and matches the K3, and on the other end of the scale, there are those 
who must weigh the benefit for their operation against the actual cost 
and make a decision about the P3 or some other alternative.  I for one 
do not take my K3 along on trips or DXpeditions (I take my QRP K2), but 
I can see benefit for the standalone P3 for those who do want to take 
that sort of package with them.  In the end, each will have to weight 
the advantages and disadvantages against their ham budget and operating 
desires, then reach a conclusion.  Too much pre-mature and speculative 
posting on this subject has already transpired in my opinion. but have 
at it, my delete key is now working.

73,
Don W3FPR

The Smiths wrote:
> Fair enough, you make a good point, $50 is a little close.. So I would say 
> that $525 to $600 should be the top number.  I'll take the extra $100 you 
> want to over pay and use it to help buy me another Begali or GHD Key!  :) 
>
> (let's not even get into those numbers!)
>  
>   
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-13 Thread Phil Hystad

Does anyone know if this is a kit (likely a simple kit?) or something that is 
all ready to be plugged in and used?

73, phil, K7PEH


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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation


I'm not happy with the expeceted price of the P3, but even I know that I'm not 
getting "sucked into" anything... Did he really think that once he paid his 
money he couldn't back out? Seriously? Highly questionable business practice? 
Please
 
> From: br...@livecomputers.com
> To: nn4x.st...@gmail.com
> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:04:50 -0800
> CC: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation
> 
> They would have refunded your money if you wanted to back out you
> weren't sucked into anything.
> 
> ~Brett
> 
> 
> On Sat, 2010-02-13 at 11:08 -0500, S Sacco wrote:
> > Guy -
> > 
> > Please don't forget that Elecraft sucked in quite a few of us on the K3 by
> > promising wildly optimistic delivery dates. I consider that to be a highly
> > questionable business practice.
> > 
> > 
> > On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 1:29 AM, Dave - AB7E 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Are the feature list and specifications now firm? And if so, what are
> > > they? I would have thought that anyone contemplating spending $700 for any
> > > box, even with the Elecraft name on it, would want to know what it does
> > > before sending off the check.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I should note that putting a prototype, and then later a working early
> > > model in front of the public for comment at some convention-style
> > > event, is RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT. Early ham feedback at hamfests is
> > > essential, and it too is R&D.
> > >
> > > It's only the customers (and pent up demand) that are mistakenly
> > > insisting that they are slow. You want the kind of innovation and
> > > service they are known for, you have to wait. It's not a flaw or
> > > laziness, or some kind of commie plot to rob us of our toys. It's
> > > careful business. Good stuff at good prices is the hardest thing to
> > > do. What was that thing, you can have two of the three, quick,
> > > quality, low price? (Personally, I'm betting quality AND low price is
> > > at the root of the amp thing, I'll wait.)
> > >
> > > I wonder if anyone has noticed businesses going down for getting even
> > > close to the edge these days? Hello? The early plunk for the K3 was
> > > a VOLUNTARY early alternative financing scheme. Lot better than them
> > > being leveraged by a bank that pulls the plug on them for completely
> > > unrelated reasons. Any Rip Van Winkle types please check the
> > > financials for the last couple of years for historical information and
> > > note that Ronald Reagan is not president any more.
> > >
> > > Personally, I want Elecraft around for a while. Conservative business
> > > practices with no screeching tires at cliff's edge is just super
> > > peachy fine by me. There is no TARP fund bailout for Elecraft. They go
> > > down, we're back to getting our stuff from Yakencom and stuck with
> > > what they decide for us, whether we like it or not.
> > >
> > > And some folks WOULD plunk now for unfirm features (and there's no big
> > > gorilla around MAKING anyone plunk -- it's a CHOICE one makes), with
> > > the personal SELF-assurance that if it isn't what they want, they can
> > > come here and sell it on the reflector, fast.
> > >
> > > 73, Guy.
> > > __
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> > >
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> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

I'm waiting for someone to take a VIDEO so that we can see the refresh
rate of the thing  But from the sounds of it it sounds like there
are still a lot of optimizations that are going on to attempt to improve
that refresh rate...

~Brett (KC7OTG)

On Fri, 2010-02-12 at 16:57 -0600, Dave Quick - KØEKL wrote:
> Below is a link to a couple photos of the new Elecraft P3 panadapter which I
> took today at the Orlando Hamcation.
>  
> Eric, WA6HHQ, said he expected the price to be around $700.00 (no commitment
> here - price subject to change)  and he hopes to begin shipping sometime in
> April. He said that production and shipping is limited by availability of
> the LCD screen vendor to supply product.
>  
> Here's the link: www.flickr.com/photos/47514...@n06/
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

They would have refunded your money if you wanted to back out you
weren't sucked into anything.

~Brett


On Sat, 2010-02-13 at 11:08 -0500, S Sacco wrote:
> Guy -
> 
> Please don't forget that Elecraft sucked in quite a few of us on the K3 by
> promising wildly optimistic delivery dates.  I consider that to be a highly
> questionable business practice.
> 
> 
> On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV 
> wrote:
> 
> > On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 1:29 AM, Dave - AB7E 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Are the feature list and specifications now firm?  And if so, what are
> > they?  I would have thought that anyone contemplating spending $700 for any
> > box, even with the Elecraft name on it, would want to know what it does
> > before sending off the check.
> > >
> >
> > I should note that putting a prototype, and then later a working early
> > model in front of the public for comment at some convention-style
> > event, is RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT.  Early ham feedback at hamfests is
> > essential, and it too is R&D.
> >
> > It's only the customers (and pent up demand) that are mistakenly
> > insisting that they are slow.  You want the kind of innovation and
> > service they are known for, you have to wait.  It's not a flaw or
> > laziness, or some kind of commie plot to rob us of our toys.  It's
> > careful business.  Good stuff at good prices is the hardest thing to
> > do. What was that thing, you can have two of the three, quick,
> > quality, low price?  (Personally, I'm betting quality AND low price is
> > at the root of the amp thing, I'll wait.)
> >
> > I wonder if anyone has noticed businesses going down for getting even
> > close to the edge these days?  Hello?  The early plunk for the K3 was
> > a VOLUNTARY early alternative financing scheme.  Lot better than them
> > being leveraged by a bank that pulls the plug on them for completely
> > unrelated reasons.  Any Rip Van Winkle types please check the
> > financials for the last couple of years for historical information and
> > note that Ronald Reagan is not president any more.
> >
> > Personally, I want Elecraft around for a while.  Conservative business
> > practices with no screeching tires at cliff's edge is just super
> > peachy fine by me. There is no TARP fund bailout for Elecraft. They go
> > down, we're back to getting our stuff from Yakencom and stuck with
> > what they decide for us, whether we like it or not.
> >
> > And some folks WOULD plunk now for unfirm features (and there's no big
> > gorilla around MAKING anyone plunk -- it's a CHOICE one makes), with
> > the personal SELF-assurance that if it isn't what they want, they can
> > come here and sell it on the reflector, fast.
> >
> > 73, Guy.
> > __
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> >
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-13 Thread KM4VX


The P3 looks and appears to act much like the excellent screen which is
integrated into my IC 756 PRO 3. Since we like the K3 so much Elecraft
decided to compete with a separate panadapter like the P3,  rather than a
K4. I think the LP-PAN  kit for $175.00, with free software connected to a
computer that anyone who wants a panadapter has anyway,  represents a much
better  investment for me. I can run all sorts of software with the LP-PAN. 
The P3 is just the scope addition to the 756 in its own box. I don't think
the  P3 market is there except as we are now marketing it. This is a
sophisticated and tech savvy group; maybe just too loose with its cash  Of
course I will be proven wrong, which is okay because I wish the company all
the best. 

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

It wouldn't be inconceivable that the CW Skimmer functionality could be
implemented into the P3.  They already have CW decode in the K3...  All
they have do to is detect the signals and feed them into the same
algorithm.  Then if you want just detect whats after the "de"'s and
display calls only if you want..

~Brett

On Sat, 2010-02-13 at 11:15 -0800, Bob - W0GI wrote:
> Considering that the P3 is a self-contained unit, $700 seems to be a
> reasonable price. There is a lot more to it, then just an LP-Pan and
> soundcard.  
> 
> For someone that doesn't want to deal with computer interfacing, it is
> great. At the same time, it has limitations.  After using CW Skimmer, I
> don't know how I lived without it. PowerSDR is also a lot of fun.
> 
> The best of both worlds would be a P3 with a usb port where the PC saw the
> P3 as a soundcard. Then you could feed PowerSDR and everything else on the
> PC, or use the P3 by itself.
> 
> As it stands, I really don't need a P3, but if I worked a lot of portable, I
> would want one.
> 
> I think they will sell quite a few P3s.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

I also would like to see the config menu blow out to the P3 if you have
it...

So you open the config menu an then you get to see all the parameters
and their current values displayed over on the larger LCD.  Then you can
scroll to the one you want to change and turn the other knob to change
its value.  

But it would be nice to get a snapshot of things all at once rather than
individually scrolling through them one by one.

~Brett (KC7OTG)

On Sat, 2010-02-13 at 09:11 -0800, Julian, G4ILO wrote:
> 
> Jeff kb2m wrote:
> > 
> >  Don't forget that the LP Pan allows you to run the SDR-IF software suite.
> > To me it's like having another radio(with band stacking registers!) to
> > compare my K3 to. When I have my K3 on, I do all the tuning around with
> > SDF-IF. My K3's knobs are hardly ever used
> > 
> > 
> If you want an SDR then I'm sure that's the way to go. But I'm equally sure
> there are a lot of people who don't want the huge ugly screen hogging
> resource hogging PowerSDR application just to show them a graphical display
> of band activity. Many of those folks probably have the second receiver
> already. If a standalone panadaptor is what you want, LP-Pan isn't it.
> 
> I'm wondering what extra functionality Elecraft could be building in to the
> P3. I see it can do a waterfall display so I'm wondering whether it has any
> features to allow digimode operation without a computer, such as Icom has in
> its latest rigs. Perhaps it could use some of the screen to display more of
> the decoded text than you can see on the K3 display? Perhaps you can plug a
> keyboard in to directly enter text? The K3 itself already has support for
> that functionality, and the P3 can access it through the serial port.
> 
> Just a thought.
> 
> -
> Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
> * G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
> * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
> * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html
> 


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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

All of that equipment was made by teams of Chinese people who are paid
very poorly and aren't treated all that well either.  The P3 is a labor
of love put together by a select few engineers.  Its probably built by
people in California with health coverage, life insurance, and a decent
living wage...

Not to mention that Elecraft provides excellent support beyond that of
the sale!  You're not going to get that from the company that made that
computer.  You're not going to be informed of hardware modifications and
upgrades that will improve your system with well done step by step
documentation written up on how to perform the mods.  Not to mention
that they'll even kit the parts to you if you can't find them on your
own.  You get more than just the hardware for your 700 bucks!

Just something to think about!  Personally I see it as a little high but
still yet very fair!

~Brett (KC7OTG)

On Sat, 2010-02-13 at 16:00 -0500, S Sacco wrote:
> By way of comparison, $700 would buy the following PC and monitor at Costco:
> 
> Processor & Memory:
> 
> Intel® Core 2 Quad Processor Q8300 (2.5GHz)
> 4MB L2 cache
> 1333MHz Front Side Bus
> 6GB DDR3 1066MHz SDRAM memory (4 Dimms)
> 
> Drives:
> 
> 640GB (7,200RPM) SATA 3Gb/s hard drive
> LightScribe 16x max DVD±R/RW drive
> 
> Graphics & Video:
> 
> Integrated Intel X4500 Graphics
> HP 2009m Wide Movado LCD Monitor
> 
> Communications:
> 
> Integrated 10/100/1000 Ethernet LAN
> 
> Audio:
> 
> Integrated 7.1 channel capable sound w/ front audio ports
> 
> Keyboard & Mouse:
> 
> Amalthea wired USB keyboard
> Portia wired USB mouse
> 
> Expandability (Total Slots):
> 
> Total memory slots: 4 DIMMS
> 1x PCIe x16
> 3x PCIe x1
> 
> Ports:
> 
> Front headphone and mic ports
> 6 x USB 2.0 ports (2 Front, 4 Back)
> 
> Operating System:
> 
> Microsoft® Windows 7 Home Premium (64-bit)
> 
> Additional Software:
> 
> Microsoft® Works 9.0
> 
> Additional Information:
> 
> CPU Dimensions: 16.85" L x 6.97" W x 15.32" H
> Power Supply: 300W
> 
>  Just something to think about.  Personally, I feel $700 is too much.
> 
> 73,
> Steve
> NN4X
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-13 Thread S Sacco

One interesting feature Wayne showed was the ability to line up
vertical line with a spot on the display, tap the knob (the lower
right hand one), and it would QSY the rig there.

On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 7:24 PM, Craig D. Smith  wrote:
> There are indeed less expensive ways to display the frequency spectrum on
> your PC screen, including the LP-pan which has received well-deserved praise
> and acceptance.  But many people prefer a self-contained solution, which
> will be provided by the P3.  What is an acceptable price for this is a very
> individual judgment.  What has not been pointed out in the recent flurry of
> discussion, however, is that the P3 will be more than just a panadapter
> display.  It will provide some additional functions for the K3 which will
> improve the user ergonomics.  Neither I nor any of us outsiders know the
> extent of this added functionality, but no doubt extra labeled function
> macro keys at a minimum.  I'm inclined to place an order at the official
> announcement date and then evaluate the new features and user comments prior
> to the ship date.  I expect that the P3 will be a continuously evolving
> product just like the K3 is.
>
> 73  Craig  AC0DS
>
>
>
>
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[Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-13 Thread Craig D. Smith

There are indeed less expensive ways to display the frequency spectrum on
your PC screen, including the LP-pan which has received well-deserved praise
and acceptance.  But many people prefer a self-contained solution, which
will be provided by the P3.  What is an acceptable price for this is a very
individual judgment.  What has not been pointed out in the recent flurry of
discussion, however, is that the P3 will be more than just a panadapter
display.  It will provide some additional functions for the K3 which will
improve the user ergonomics.  Neither I nor any of us outsiders know the
extent of this added functionality, but no doubt extra labeled function
macro keys at a minimum.  I'm inclined to place an order at the official
announcement date and then evaluate the new features and user comments prior
to the ship date.  I expect that the P3 will be a continuously evolving
product just like the K3 is.  

73  Craig  AC0DS




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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

I understand that there is a need for a reasonable mark up, and I understand 
that there's also a need to pay for the R&D.  However, some times you have to 
decide if your product is worth producing based on the amount of sales that it 
will generate.  And not by way of how can you pay all of your R&D back in a 
matter of the most minimal time.  Not thinking about how many of these units 
they will potentially sell as time progresses.

If this is all that the P3 is about, than they need to re-consider selling it.  
Or anything that they make and sell for a price that seems to be $100 to $175 
off market. (This assuming that the price IS going to be $700 plus)
I would rather know that I can buy a VERY nice home computer, with monitor, and 
then install the FREE software with a $250 interface box and then be able to 
not only run the Pan adapter program, but all of my accounting, my Internet 
browsing and thousands of other things on that same very computer for the same 
price as a single operation device.

Yes, the stand alone box is very nice indeed, but it's not as if I'm going to 
be saving anything that a nice laptop computer can't give me in the same amount 
of space.  Even if I go Portable, with a laptop I don't have to worry about 
powering a second device, nor do I have to worry about the logging, because 
it's already incorporated in the same device, along with everything that HRD  
or any other control software can do with the K3 also...

I know that none of my posts are going to change the price of the P3 right 
before it's released.  That's obvious by the same way it appears they didn't 
listen to some of us when we requested a Mouse, Keyboard and perhaps even VGA 
output on the box as well.  But someone has to be outspoken and say something 
about the pricing on this device.  This isn't a personal attack on anyone, or 
the company.  This is just a way of expressing my opinion based on other Pan 
adapters that I have purchased in the past.

> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 13:39:41 -0800
> From: v...@rakefet.com
> To: ronce...@earthlink.net
> CC: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation
> 
> On 2/13/10 8:23 AM, KM4VX wrote:
> >
> > The P-3 could sell for a few
> > hundred dollars at profit, similar to other panadapters. Instead, we are
> > talking about more than double that price. Companies recover their R&D
> > investments over time, and the higher the selling price the shorter the R&D
> > investment recovery period. How about a breather here? The $700 price being
> > tossed around is a bit absurd in my view.
> 
> Keep in mind that the P3 is completely standalone -- you don't need to 
> add a computer or a display as you do with the other options. You may or 
> may not think that's a good thing, but it accounts for the price difference.
> 
> I've talked to the Elecraft people about pricing on occasion and they 
> very definitely do NOT charge what the market will bear, but rather base 
> their prices on a reasonable markup over the cost.
> -- 
> Vic, K2VCO
> Fresno CA
> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation


Fair enough, you make a good point, $50 is a little close.. So I would say that 
$525 to $600 should be the top number.  I'll take the extra $100 you want to 
over pay and use it to help buy me another Begali or GHD Key!  :) 

(let's not even get into those numbers!)
 
> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 14:50:15 -0800
> From: julian.g4...@gmail.com
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation
> 
> 
> 
> The Smiths wrote:
> > 
> > In my personal opinion, for Elecraft to charge more than $700 (if that)
> > for a pan adapter that does only one or at best 2 functions is outrageous. 
> > I would have thought that $500 to $650 would be the TOP number they would
> > be targeting.
> > 
> > Yes, I will most likely purchase the P3 pan adapter
> > 
> So $50 is the difference between acceptable and outrageous? Anyone who
> thinks it is too expensive doesn't have to buy it. No doubt there will be
> plenty of used LP-PANs for sale when the P3 actually comes out.
> 
> As far as I am concerned all ham radio purchases are luxuries anyway so just
> like buying my K3 it's only a question of do I want it and can I afford it.
> If I do and I can then I'll buy it, if I don't or I can't then I won't. I'll
> save the value comparisons for things I *have* to buy whether I want to or
> not like a new fridge or washing machine.
> 
> -
> Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222.
> * G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
> * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
> * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html
> 
> -- 
> View this message in context: 
> http://n2.nabble.com/Elecraft-P3-panadapter-at-the-Orlando-Hamcation-tp4564111p4568146.html
> Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-13 Thread Julian, G4ILO



The Smiths wrote:
> 
> In my personal opinion, for Elecraft to charge more than $700 (if that)
> for a pan adapter that does only one or at best 2 functions is outrageous. 
> I would have thought that $500 to $650 would be the TOP number they would
> be targeting.
> 
> Yes, I will most likely purchase the P3 pan adapter
> 
So $50 is the difference between acceptable and outrageous? Anyone who
thinks it is too expensive doesn't have to buy it. No doubt there will be
plenty of used LP-PANs for sale when the P3 actually comes out.

As far as I am concerned all ham radio purchases are luxuries anyway so just
like buying my K3 it's only a question of do I want it and can I afford it.
If I do and I can then I'll buy it, if I don't or I can't then I won't. I'll
save the value comparisons for things I *have* to buy whether I want to or
not like a new fridge or washing machine.

-
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
* KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
* KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-13 Thread Julian, G4ILO

Dave - AB7E wrote:
> 
> The advantage, in my opinion, of a more universal piece of SDR hardware
> (like LP-Pan or SDR-IQ) is EXACTLY that it would be able to run other
> software, either current like PowerSDR or CW Skimmer, or other
> applications that I am firmly convinced will be available in the future
> for things like propagation analysis, band activity analysis, quantifying
> signal distortion on received signals, etc.  In my opinion, the P3 could
> have easily been designed to do offer that capability as well the other
> more dedicated stuff it does, but for some reason it wasn't.
> 

But there is no real advantage in Elecraft bringing out a "me too" version
of the LP-Pan or SDR-IQ. By making the P3 a standalone product they are
providing an alternative that is likely to be appealing for the same reasons
people chose a K3 over a Flex Radio.

I do agree it could be useful to bring out the I/Q signals from the
panadapter so they could be used by external software but for all any of us
knows it may have that capability. If it doesn't then now is the opportunity
to let Elecraft know that it should have it.

-
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
* KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
* KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-13 Thread Joe Subich, W4TV



> LP-PAN kit = $176.75USD
> LP-PAN assembled = $227.25USD

LP-Pan is not "complete" ... it also requires a high end soundcard, 
computer and monitor to provide up to 180 KHz span.  The P3 needs 
no additional hardware to provide 200 KHz span.  

The Yaesu DMU-2000 only puts a graphical interface on the rotor 
control that is already present in the FT-2000 ... not a usable 
control unless you happen to be using a Yaesu rotor with the SDA 
interface.  

The P3 is closest to the SDR-IQ but includes a larger case (more 
$$), display and additional processor for control.  I'd say the 
P3's price is justified in comparison to the $525 (plus computer) 
list price of the SDR-IQ.  

73, 

   ... Joe, W4TV 
  



> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of The Smiths
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 3:44 PM
> To: k7...@comcast.net; Elecraft Reflector
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando 
> Hamcation
> 
> 
> 
> I would beg to differ.  As a past owner of an FT-2000d with 
> the DMU-2000 "pan adapter" I have to say 1 - that pan adapter 
> was FAR MORE than what Elecraft has described the P3 would 
> do.  It was a logging system, it was a rotor control with 
> world map, it was an AF scope, it was also a pan adapter 
> among other things. Plus, you could use it on ANY size screen.
> 
> Sure, there were features that needed serious refinement.. 
> but when I purchased mine BRAND NEW it was still only $650 
> "on sale".  Of course that "sale" never seemed to end, but 
> when it did go away for a little bit, the price never went 
> higher than 700 or 775 dollars.
> 
>  
> 
> In my personal opinion, for Elecraft to charge more than $700 
> (if that) for a pan adapter that does only one or at best 2 
> functions is outrageous.  I would have thought that $500 to 
> $650 would be the TOP number they would be targeting.
> 
> I don't know about you, but I'm not made out of money, and to 
> even consider plunking down $1000 for a simple pan adapter is 
> an absolute JOKE.
> 
>  
> 
> Yes, I will most likely purchase the P3 pan adapter, but I'll 
> be keeping my fingers crossed that Elecraft understands that 
> even if I have to purchase a $80-$150 LCD monitor, ALL of 
> their competition is priced below that ridiculous mark others 
> have talked about. 
> 
>  
> LP-PAN kit = $176.75USD
> LP-PAN assembled = $227.25USD
> 
> Software: FREE
> 
> 1) Manufacturer: YAESU 
> Item : DMU-2000 
> Description : DATA MANAGEMENT UNIT FT-2000/950/5000 SERIES 
> $869.95
> Coupon: $80.00
> YOUR HRO PRICE $789.95
> 
>  
> 
> Gigaparts:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YAESU DMU-2000
> Data Management Unit for FT-2000 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Discounts included in price: $80.00 instant rebate expires 
> 03/31/2010. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Regular: 
>   
> $849.00
>  
> 
>  
> Discounts: 
>  
> -$80.00
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Net Price: 
>  
> $769.00
> 
> 
> 
> And on and on and on Like I said, $500 to $650 is a FAIR 
> price.  $700 is PUSHING it.  Just my opinion, you don't need 
> to agree with it.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> > From: k7...@comcast.net
> > Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 08:39:50 -0800
> > To: ronce...@earthlink.net
> > CC: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando 
> > Hamcation
> > 
> > I think the estimated $700 price is cheap. I was thinking 
> it would be
> > closer to $1000. There is a similar product from Yaesu, the DMU-2000
> > with a list price of $1400 and it does not even include the 
> monitor which
> > you must supply yourself. I think the street price is 
> possibly under $1000
> > though.
> > 
> > Now, we do not know how close or far apart the DMU-2000 is from the
> > P3 but it does set at least one price point. Another price 
> point is the
> > LP-PAN and sound-card plus computer configuration. If you buy an 
> > external USB sound card then you are starting to get closer 
> to the ball
> > park area of the $700 (of course, depending on all kinds of 
> factors that
> > are too variable to make any close comparison). I bet 
> though that many
> > hams would gladly pay several hundred dollars more for the 
> P3 to avoid
> > the hassle of doing up their own solution using the LP-PAN approach.
> > 
> > Abo

Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-13 Thread Joe Subich, W4TV



>  Don't forget that the LP Pan allows you to run the SDR-IF 
> software suite. 

Why would you brag about bringing the worst part of the 
Flex-radio to the K3?  PowerSDR is the worst interface 
in the world for a radio ... the FFT delays make the 
K3 monitor sound instantaneous. 

73, 

   ... Joe, W4TV 
 


> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jeff KB2M
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 11:56 AM
> Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando 
> Hamcation
> 
> 
>  Don't forget that the LP Pan allows you to run the SDR-IF 
> software suite. To me it's like having another radio(with 
> band stacking registers!) to compare my K3 to. When I have my 
> K3 on, I do all the tuning around with SDF-IF. My K3's knobs 
> are hardly ever used
> 
> 73 Jeff kb2m
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Phil Hystad
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 11:40 AM
> To: KM4VX
> Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando 
> Hamcation
> 
> Another price point is the LP-PAN and sound-card plus 
> computer configuration
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-13 Thread Vic, K2VCO

On 2/13/10 8:23 AM, KM4VX wrote:
>
>  The P-3 could sell for a few
> hundred dollars at profit, similar to other panadapters. Instead, we are
> talking about more than double that price. Companies recover their R&D
> investments over time, and the higher the selling price the shorter the R&D
> investment recovery period. How about a breather here? The $700 price being
> tossed around is a bit absurd in my view.

Keep in mind that the P3 is completely standalone -- you don't need to 
add a computer or a display as you do with the other options. You may or 
may not think that's a good thing, but it accounts for the price difference.

I've talked to the Elecraft people about pricing on occasion and they 
very definitely do NOT charge what the market will bear, but rather base 
their prices on a reasonable markup over the cost.
-- 
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-13 Thread S Sacco

By way of comparison, $700 would buy the following PC and monitor at Costco:

Processor & Memory:

Intel® Core 2 Quad Processor Q8300 (2.5GHz)
4MB L2 cache
1333MHz Front Side Bus
6GB DDR3 1066MHz SDRAM memory (4 Dimms)

Drives:

640GB (7,200RPM) SATA 3Gb/s hard drive
LightScribe 16x max DVD±R/RW drive

Graphics & Video:

Integrated Intel X4500 Graphics
HP 2009m Wide Movado LCD Monitor

Communications:

Integrated 10/100/1000 Ethernet LAN

Audio:

Integrated 7.1 channel capable sound w/ front audio ports

Keyboard & Mouse:

Amalthea wired USB keyboard
Portia wired USB mouse

Expandability (Total Slots):

Total memory slots: 4 DIMMS
1x PCIe x16
3x PCIe x1

Ports:

Front headphone and mic ports
6 x USB 2.0 ports (2 Front, 4 Back)

Operating System:

Microsoft® Windows 7 Home Premium (64-bit)

Additional Software:

Microsoft® Works 9.0

Additional Information:

CPU Dimensions: 16.85" L x 6.97" W x 15.32" H
Power Supply: 300W

 Just something to think about.  Personally, I feel $700 is too much.

73,
Steve
NN4X
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation