Re: [Elecraft] 6m

[Robie Elms]

Josep,

Yes, the K3S covers the 6 meter and.

Robie AJ4F

On Fri, May 20, 2022 at 1:38 AM Josep via Elecraft 
wrote:

> Hi guys,
> maybe a silly question but, does all K3s have 6m band..? Looks like my
> hexbeam resonates on that band according tomy Ant analyzer, but when I
> connect the coax to the K3, it doesn´t. Any ideas.?
>
>
> 73,
> JosepEA6BFMyWebsiteBUG #256  -  CWOps #3072  -  FOC #2182 (ex 1724)
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Re: [Elecraft] 6M E-skip

[Jim Brown]

Great, Marv. And I'm sure your presence has been appreciated!  I was on 
6M in my high school days in WV in '57-'59, which included the F2 
openings from the sunspot max in '58. Otherwise, I mostly worked CW, so 
I was prepared for Aurora openings, and had a lot of fun there too.


73, Jim K9YC

 On 8/27/2020 7:59 PM, marvwhee...@nwlink.com wrote:

In 58 years of amateur radio operation, I had never been on 6 meters until last 
year. I was told about the Fred Fish Award and the rarity of CN77 on 6 meters I 
decided to dive it. I did not get on the band until late July last year but was 
able, this year, to confirm 2261 contacts this year. It has been fun.

Marv
KG7V
CN77

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Jim Brown
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2020 7:43 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] 6M E-skip

On 8/27/2020 12:26 PM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote:

Jim, I'd submit that not only is 160M more challenging on the left
coast, but 6M is worse since it tends to be N/S much of the time and
even the coastline leans left so not many stations are south. ;-P   6M
like 160, also 'spotlights' but in pinpoints.  I have managed DXCC on
160M since the move, 6M is still a greater challenge (up to 6 so far,
it's a start).


NC6K has made some interesting posts concerning how 6M Sporadic-E propagation 
is related to upper level winds, which in turn is strongly related to 
topography. He's explained some events by studying upper atmosphere weather 
plots.

Most of my hamming from late April to early August is spent on 6M, in pursuit of new 
grids. Yes, Sporadic E (Es) can be very "spot-lighty,"
especially for double-hop openings, which is what it takes to reach beyond 
about 1800 miles, and even more so to hit Japan. For double-hop to happen, two 
Es hot spots must exist AND line up; it's quite common to make multiple QSOs 
into a single grid, then 10-20 minutes later in an adjacent grids as the 
spotlight moves. And, of course, to make those QSOs there must be stations 
there on the other end.

This season, there was a week-long expedition to a rare grid in the Northern 
Peninsula of MI; they were workable from NorCal for a few hours on two days. I 
managed to work one expedition to a grid a few hundred miles inland from the 
Gulf Coast that was there for several days, but missed one to another grid.

Es prop peaks around the summer solstice, and is pretty good for a month or so 
either side, falling off gradually. Year round, and for distances less than 
about 1200 miles, meteor scatter and ionospheric scatter are effective with 
good antennas, power, and persistence. I picked up about
8 new grids this season with MS.

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] 6M E-skip

[marvwheeler]

In 58 years of amateur radio operation, I had never been on 6 meters until last 
year. I was told about the Fred Fish Award and the rarity of CN77 on 6 meters I 
decided to dive it. I did not get on the band until late July last year but was 
able, this year, to confirm 2261 contacts this year. It has been fun.

Marv
KG7V
CN77 

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Jim Brown
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2020 7:43 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] 6M E-skip

On 8/27/2020 12:26 PM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote:
> Jim, I'd submit that not only is 160M more challenging on the left 
> coast, but 6M is worse since it tends to be N/S much of the time and 
> even the coastline leans left so not many stations are south. ;-P   6M 
> like 160, also 'spotlights' but in pinpoints.  I have managed DXCC on 
> 160M since the move, 6M is still a greater challenge (up to 6 so far, 
> it's a start).

NC6K has made some interesting posts concerning how 6M Sporadic-E propagation 
is related to upper level winds, which in turn is strongly related to 
topography. He's explained some events by studying upper atmosphere weather 
plots.

Most of my hamming from late April to early August is spent on 6M, in pursuit 
of new grids. Yes, Sporadic E (Es) can be very "spot-lighty," 
especially for double-hop openings, which is what it takes to reach beyond 
about 1800 miles, and even more so to hit Japan. For double-hop to happen, two 
Es hot spots must exist AND line up; it's quite common to make multiple QSOs 
into a single grid, then 10-20 minutes later in an adjacent grids as the 
spotlight moves. And, of course, to make those QSOs there must be stations 
there on the other end.

This season, there was a week-long expedition to a rare grid in the Northern 
Peninsula of MI; they were workable from NorCal for a few hours on two days. I 
managed to work one expedition to a grid a few hundred miles inland from the 
Gulf Coast that was there for several days, but missed one to another grid.

Es prop peaks around the summer solstice, and is pretty good for a month or so 
either side, falling off gradually. Year round, and for distances less than 
about 1200 miles, meteor scatter and ionospheric scatter are effective with 
good antennas, power, and persistence. I picked up about
8 new grids this season with MS.

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] 6m meteor scatter

[Chris Cox, N0UK]

In my opinion, although it works great on 6m, where high-speed meteor
scatter techniques really shine (no pun intended) is when used on 2m and
1.25m bands.  There are frequently enough longer pings and burns on 6m
that SSB can be used effectively, especially during meteor showers.

Many new (and old!) hams aren't even aware of meteor scatter at all and
don't realise that it makes working real DX on all of the VHF bands a
routine, daily event.  Sure, you can't do it with a FM handheld and rubber
duck, but with a 100W or more and a reasonable single-yagi antenna, QSO's
in the 800-1000 mile range can be made year-round.

Perhaps a little off-topic for the Elecraft list-server, but always worth
mentioning!

73 Chris (pingjockey.net webmaster)

--
73 Chris Cox, N0UK, G4JEC
chr...@chris.org

On Wed, 5 Dec 2018, Jim Brown wrote:

> While MS QSOs can be made with random CQing on 50.260, most are
> scheduled via Ping Jockey or ON4KST chat. There's a learning curve to
> operating MS, and QSOs via MS can take a while to complete. It's not
> unusual for it to take 30 minutes for "rocks" to align in the space
> between QSO partners to provide the reflections for pings that WSJT-X
> decodes to complete all the steps of the QSO.
>
> MS is NOT a good mode for QRP, and while QSOs can be made with 100W,
> more power increases the likelihood of a good ping and shortens the time
> it takes to complete.
>
> If you're chasing grids on 6M, MS is a great way to fill in those that
> are beyond the range of tropospheric propagation and too close for
> E-skip.  The limit for MS is about 1,300 miles, and even that distance
> requires great rocks, high power, decent antennas, great ops, and
> persistence.
>
> MS is one of the propagation modes for which the exchange format and
> progress of WSJT mode QSOs was developed, and it is rigidly followed.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> On 12/5/2018 9:00 AM, Mike Cizek W0VTT wrote:
> > MSK144 on 50.260  WSJT-X v2.0  More info here:
> > https://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/k1jt/wsjtx.html
> > You will find the Ping Jockey chatroom very friendly and helpful:
> > https://www.pingjockey.net/cgi-bin/pingtalk
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Re: [Elecraft] 6m Meteor Scatter

[Jim Brown]

On 12/6/2018 12:59 AM, eric norris via Elecraft wrote:

MSK144 encodes and decodes very differently than FT8.


Lots of great info in this post. I'll expand on this comment. FT8, JT65, 
and JT9 are noise reduction modes -- the transmit the same message 
several times in the message cycle, and they use the entire message 
cycle to do that. They are designed to work on a path that is weak, but 
exists for most of the message cycle.


MSK144, and it's predecessor FSK441, transmit the same message over and 
over again in segments of a few hundred msec. All it takes is for ONE of 
those few-hundred msec transmissions to get through. They are designed 
for a path that may be there for only a few hundred msec or, if we're 
lucky several chunks of a few hundred msec -- that is, when a meteor has 
ionized a region of the atmosphere that reflects our signal to the other 
guy, and, at some later time, the other guys's signal to us. As I 
understand it, MSK144 does SOME noise reduction, but not much.


Another great thing about the implementation of MSK144 is that we can 
choose TX cycles of 5-30 msec. Last I looked, most stations were using 
15 sec.


The most surprising MSK144 QSO I've made was with a guy doing a 6M grid 
expedition through nowhere NV, a path of roughly 400-500 miles, 
mid-afternoon this past summer. The first stages (three, I think) were 
done with him driving down the road transmitting 100W into a vertical. 
He eventually parked and set up a small Yagi for the last two sequences 
to finish the QSO. I worked him to fill in a total of four or five 
nowhere grids, and failed on five others.


Last I looked, K1JT was suggesting that MSK144 be used where we had 
previously used ISCAT, another mode designed for tropo scatter.


To understand these propagation modes, study the ARRL Handbook and  
Antenna Book. It makes very interesting reading, and using those modes 
can be a lot of fun.


Anyone who says that these digital modes and propagation modes are easy 
has never done it. I've been doing it for about five years, and there IS 
a learning curve, and the more you know about the digital modes and the 
propagation modes, the successful you are, and the more fun you have.


I've never tried 2M MS -- I'm in a very dense redwood forest (the trees 
top out around 250 ft and my Yagi is at 125 ft) and those trees are 
increasingly strong absorbers of RF with increasing frequency.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] 6m meteor scatter

[Edward R Cole]

Many years ago I made some 600 mile contacts using 100w SSB on 6m 
with a 3-element yagi.  Pretty sure it was during Perseids shower.


BTW best frequency for ms is 44-MHz (that's where professional ms 
circuits are run) so 6m is the best band to try out ms.


On Saturday I finally raised my new 6m array of two 7-element LFA 
yagis stacked 25-foot apart and 33 foot above ground (gain = 
15.75dBi).  I run 1000w using a surplus Harris ch.2 TV amp (16 
transistors in parallel).  Not QRV quite yet but soon.  I will be 
doing 6m-eme and ms.  North end of Vancouver Island, BC is 1300 miles 
from me with only one ms station. My station should work random 
meteors any day of the year (if I can find anyone near enough that does ms).


details: http://www.kl7uw.com/6m.htm

73, Ed - KL7UW
  http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
  dubus...@gmail.com 


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Re: [Elecraft] 6m meteor scatter

[Jim - N4ST]

John,

I only dabble with meteor scatter from time to time but did make ~70 QSOs with 
80 watts and a 3-el beam at 15 feet.
The beam is on a 10' pole on my back deck and no rotor.  I normally have it 
parked pointing due West but rotate it by hand on occasion according to the 
activity maps.
As pointed out in previous posts, 6am local time is best for meteors, but you 
tend to get better results an hour or so later because more ops are awake. 😊
You can check activity on PSKReporter https://www.pskreporter.info/pskmapn.html 
and/or schedule contacts on  Ping Jockey 
https://www.pingjockey.net/cgi-bin/pingtalk

 
73,
Jim - N4ST

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of John Harper
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 09:17
To: Elecraft list 
Subject: [Elecraft] 6m meteor scatter

Hi Eric,

You've piqued my interest - I have a 3-el 6m Yagi, 100 watts and WSJT-X.
Where should I point the beam (I'm in TX) for maximizing my chances of 
receiving activity, ie is it based on meteor shower activity or does a 
receiver's location favor a given geographic area?

Tnx/73,

John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com
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Re: [Elecraft] 6m meteor scatter

[David Olean]

Good point, Wes.

If you have a really good station on both ends, SSB would be a lot 
faster and more fun in my opinion.  I used to get sked requests from 
K9NS for contest points on 50 and 144 a few years back. We used SSB and 
not digi mode. In September it took about 1 minute to complete with him 
on 144 MHz.  That was with a 20 dB antenna on each end and KWs. You 
spent more time pushing buttons on FSK-441 . SSB was effortless. I have 
not tried MSK144 yet.  If you have a marginal setup with less than 1500 
w and a big antenna, the digi modes make sense for a faster QSO.  Still, 
I think SSB is more exciting. CW needs pretty high speed operating 
ability for manual xmissions, but that is just as exciting if you can 
swing it.  I can copy at about 35 if I am looking for calls. I think 
that is a good start for CW! 45 is better.


The most fun I ever had in ham radio was working SSB random contacts 
during a Perseids peak, and then of course the big Leonids shower back 
in 2001 or 2002. I miss that stuff now.


Dave K1WHS

On 12/5/2018 7:44 PM, Wes Stewart wrote:

Why not just use CW (or even SSB)?

Disclaimer.  I have zero experience with 6M MS.  That said, I have 
confirmed QSOs with every continental state west of the Mississippi 
and a few east on 2M MS (or tropo) :-)


Wes  N7WS



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Re: [Elecraft] 6m meteor scatter

[lmarion]

SSB/CW is all I have ever used. I have 41 logged SSB MS with 24 cards for 
some of those.


Leroy AB7CE


-Original Message- 
From: Wes Stewart

Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 12:44 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6m meteor scatter

Why not just use CW (or even SSB)?

Disclaimer.  I have zero experience with 6M MS.  That said, I have confirmed
QSOs with every continental state west of the Mississippi and a few east on 
2M

MS (or tropo) :-)

Wes  N7WS

On 12/5/2018 12:08 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
While MS QSOs can be made with random CQing on 50.260, most are scheduled 
via Ping Jockey or ON4KST chat. There's a learning curve to operating MS, 
and QSOs via MS can take a while to complete. It's not unusual for it to 
take 30 minutes for "rocks" to align in the space between QSO partners to 
provide the reflections for pings that WSJT-X decodes to complete all the 
steps of the QSO.


MS is NOT a good mode for QRP, and while QSOs can be made with 100W, more 
power increases the likelihood of a good ping and shortens the time it 
takes to complete.


If you're chasing grids on 6M, MS is a great way to fill in those that are 
beyond the range of tropospheric propagation and too close for E-skip. 
The limit for MS is about 1,300 miles, and even that distance requires 
great rocks, high power, decent antennas, great ops, and persistence.


MS is one of the propagation modes for which the exchange format and 
progress of WSJT mode QSOs was developed, and it is rigidly followed.


73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] 6m meteor scatter

[Wes Stewart]

Why not just use CW (or even SSB)?

Disclaimer.  I have zero experience with 6M MS.  That said, I have confirmed 
QSOs with every continental state west of the Mississippi and a few east on 2M 
MS (or tropo) :-)


Wes  N7WS

On 12/5/2018 12:08 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
While MS QSOs can be made with random CQing on 50.260, most are scheduled via 
Ping Jockey or ON4KST chat. There's a learning curve to operating MS, and QSOs 
via MS can take a while to complete. It's not unusual for it to take 30 
minutes for "rocks" to align in the space between QSO partners to provide the 
reflections for pings that WSJT-X decodes to complete all the steps of the QSO.


MS is NOT a good mode for QRP, and while QSOs can be made with 100W, more 
power increases the likelihood of a good ping and shortens the time it takes 
to complete.


If you're chasing grids on 6M, MS is a great way to fill in those that are 
beyond the range of tropospheric propagation and too close for E-skip.  The 
limit for MS is about 1,300 miles, and even that distance requires great 
rocks, high power, decent antennas, great ops, and persistence.


MS is one of the propagation modes for which the exchange format and progress 
of WSJT mode QSOs was developed, and it is rigidly followed.


73, Jim K9YC 


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Re: [Elecraft] 6m meteor scatter

[Jim Brown]

While MS QSOs can be made with random CQing on 50.260, most are 
scheduled via Ping Jockey or ON4KST chat. There's a learning curve to 
operating MS, and QSOs via MS can take a while to complete. It's not 
unusual for it to take 30 minutes for "rocks" to align in the space 
between QSO partners to provide the reflections for pings that WSJT-X 
decodes to complete all the steps of the QSO.


MS is NOT a good mode for QRP, and while QSOs can be made with 100W, 
more power increases the likelihood of a good ping and shortens the time 
it takes to complete.


If you're chasing grids on 6M, MS is a great way to fill in those that 
are beyond the range of tropospheric propagation and too close for 
E-skip.  The limit for MS is about 1,300 miles, and even that distance 
requires great rocks, high power, decent antennas, great ops, and 
persistence.


MS is one of the propagation modes for which the exchange format and 
progress of WSJT mode QSOs was developed, and it is rigidly followed.


73, Jim K9YC

On 12/5/2018 9:00 AM, Mike Cizek W0VTT wrote:

MSK144 on 50.260  WSJT-X v2.0  More info here:
https://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/k1jt/wsjtx.html
You will find the Ping Jockey chatroom very friendly and helpful:
https://www.pingjockey.net/cgi-bin/pingtalk

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Re: [Elecraft] 6m meteor scatter

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Use WSJT-X.  Mode is MSK-144. Band is 6M.  WSJT has the frequencies in the band 
table. 50.260 and 50.360 as I recall.  If your station is configured for FT-8 
and CAT control then you are ready to go. 

Bob, K4TAX


Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 5, 2018, at 10:44 AM, Gordon LaPoint  wrote:
> 
> On 6Mtrs what mode and frequency should we be using??
> Thanks,
> Gordon - N1MGO
>> On 12/5/18 11:29 AM, David Olean wrote:
>> Sporadic meteors are arriving from all sorts of directions, and the best 
>> time for sporadic meteors is at 6 AM local time because that is the time 
>> when your location on Earth is moving into the wind so to speak.  The 
>> Earth's travel in its orbit and the forward momentum of the spinning Earth 
>> picks up more meteors at sunrise than when the opposite is occurring at 6 PM 
>> local time. That is the worst time for sporadic meteors. That being said, 
>> you are liable to make a contact at any time.  You are just playing 
>> percentages!
>> 
>> Dave K1WHS 
> 
> -- 
> Gordon - N1MGO
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] 6m meteor scatter

[Mike Cizek W0VTT]

MSK144 on 50.260  WSJT-X v2.0  More info here:
https://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/k1jt/wsjtx.html 
You will find the Ping Jockey chatroom very friendly and helpful:
https://www.pingjockey.net/cgi-bin/pingtalk 

-- 
73,
Mike Cizek WØVTT

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Gordon LaPoint
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 10:44
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6m meteor scatter

On 6Mtrs what mode and frequency should we be using??
Thanks,
Gordon - N1MGO
On 12/5/18 11:29 AM, David Olean wrote:
> Sporadic meteors are arriving from all sorts of directions, and the 
> best time for sporadic meteors is at 6 AM local time because that is 
> the time when your location on Earth is moving into the wind so to 
> speak.  The Earth's travel in its orbit and the forward momentum of 
> the spinning Earth picks up more meteors at sunrise than when the 
> opposite is occurring at 6 PM local time. That is the worst time for 
> sporadic meteors. That being said, you are liable to make a contact at 
> any time.  You are just playing percentages!
>
> Dave K1WHS 

-- 
Gordon - N1MGO

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Re: [Elecraft] 6m meteor scatter

[Gordon LaPoint]

On 6Mtrs what mode and frequency should we be using??
Thanks,
Gordon - N1MGO
On 12/5/18 11:29 AM, David Olean wrote:
Sporadic meteors are arriving from all sorts of directions, and the 
best time for sporadic meteors is at 6 AM local time because that is 
the time when your location on Earth is moving into the wind so to 
speak.  The Earth's travel in its orbit and the forward momentum of 
the spinning Earth picks up more meteors at sunrise than when the 
opposite is occurring at 6 PM local time. That is the worst time for 
sporadic meteors. That being said, you are liable to make a contact at 
any time.  You are just playing percentages!


Dave K1WHS 


--
Gordon - N1MGO

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Re: [Elecraft] 6m meteor scatter

[David Olean]

Sporadic meteors are arriving from all sorts of directions, and the best 
time for sporadic meteors is at 6 AM local time because that is the time 
when your location on Earth is moving into the wind so to speak.  The 
Earth's travel in its orbit and the forward momentum of the spinning 
Earth picks up more meteors at sunrise than when the opposite is 
occurring at 6 PM local time. That is the worst time for sporadic 
meteors. That being said, you are liable to make a contact at any time.  
You are just playing percentages!


Dave K1WHS

On 12/5/2018 3:16 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:


Meteors can enter the atmosphere from just about any direction. I 
generally point east to north to west, although any meteors entering 
to the south of me would also leave trails that reflect radio 
waves.    Depending on activity, very low at present, one should look 
for predominant showers to enhance their likelihood of making 
contacts.    Expect to listen a lot and hear a lot of nothing.   The 
software does the job, let it run for hours.   When you see stations 
decoded then activate the transmitter and call. Of course the system 
will allow you to call CQ and that works too. And don't think that 
meteors only fly at night.  Nope, daytime is almost equally as good, 
just the noise is usually higher, and we just don't see them making 
trails through the atmosphere as we do at night.  I personally 
like early mornings as the man made noise is usually a few dB less.    
Good hunting.

73
Bob, K4TAX


On 12/5/2018 8:17 AM, John Harper wrote:

Hi Eric,

You've piqued my interest - I have a 3-el 6m Yagi, 100 watts and WSJT-X.
Where should I point the beam (I'm in TX) for maximizing my chances of
receiving activity, ie is it based on meteor shower activity or does a
receiver's location favor a given geographic area?

Tnx/73,

John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com
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Re: [Elecraft] 6m meteor scatter

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Meteors can enter the atmosphere from just about any direction.    I 
generally point east to north to west, although any meteors entering to 
the south of me would also leave trails that reflect radio waves.    
Depending on activity, very low at present, one should look for 
predominant showers to enhance their likelihood of making contacts.    
Expect to listen a lot and hear a lot of nothing.   The software does 
the job, let it run for hours.   When you see stations decoded then 
activate the transmitter and call.   Of course the system will allow you 
to call CQ and that works too. And don't think that meteors only fly 
at night.  Nope, daytime is almost equally as good, just the noise is 
usually higher, and we just don't see them making trails through the 
atmosphere as we do at night.  I personally like early mornings as 
the man made noise is usually a few dB less.    Good hunting.

73
Bob, K4TAX


On 12/5/2018 8:17 AM, John Harper wrote:

Hi Eric,

You've piqued my interest - I have a 3-el 6m Yagi, 100 watts and WSJT-X.
Where should I point the beam (I'm in TX) for maximizing my chances of
receiving activity, ie is it based on meteor shower activity or does a
receiver's location favor a given geographic area?

Tnx/73,

John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com
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Re: [Elecraft] 6M Beacons

[KC7QY]

W2JX,
Thanks for the reply.
Looks like the PDF paste was stripped off my post. Part 97.203(d) states 
unattended beacons are allowed on 50.060 to 50.080 MHz. Also states frequency 
limitations on other bands from 28MHz on up. 
This is in response to the earlier comment on people wanting to have beacons 
moved up into the 50.150MHz region. A bad idea in my opinion. Jim KC7QY

  From: W2xj 
 To: KC7QY  
Cc: "414c6432-07b4-4d92-a502-06e47f34c...@elecraft.com" 
<414c6432-07b4-4d92-a502-06e47f34c...@elecraft.com>; Elecraft Mailist 

 Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2018 4:05 PM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M Beacons
   
Context?

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 1, 2018, at 5:48 PM, KC7QY  wrote:
> 
> A quick check of Part 97 says:
> Under 97.203 Beacon Stations
> 
> 
>  Jim KC7QY
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Re: [Elecraft] 6M Beacons

[W2xj]

Context?

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 1, 2018, at 5:48 PM, KC7QY  wrote:
> 
> A quick check of Part 97 says:
> Under 97.203 Beacon Stations
> 
> 
>  Jim KC7QY
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Re: [Elecraft] 6m REPORT

[Wayne Burdick]

Richard,

This is an issue on a small number of units. We know the cause and have a 
simple fix. Please call support on Monday. 

73,
Wayne
N6KR




http://www.elecraft.com

> On Jun 10, 2018, at 2:44 PM, Richard Zalewski  wrote:
> 
> First attempt to put amp on 6m.  No problem with antennas our output but
> display disappears after about a minute of calling cq on cw.  At first only
> half the screen disappears with "50MHZ and PWR" only showing.  Then screen
> goes completely blank.  I have ferrite on everything between the power
> supply and the amp except the power leads.  Coax in and out have ferrite on
> them.  It does not come back after time.  It requires a power off and on to
> restore the screen.  Anyone else?
> 
> Richard
> *W7ZR* ex:5C5Z, CN2ZR, K2JSP, W6SBZ, W7KXR, K9ZIJ, W9KNF, W0KDF, W0MQU,
> J68ZR, KC6ZR, PJ4/W7ZR, KH2,W7ZR, KH6/W7ZR, V31ZR, VK4AAZ, XE2DV
> 
> 
> *Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer*
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Re: [Elecraft] 6m REPORT

[Jim N7US]

I had it about a week ago on 15M and reported it to Elecraft.  It hasn't
recurred.

73, Jim N7US

-Original Message-


First attempt to put amp on 6m.  No problem with antennas our output but
display disappears after about a minute of calling cq on cw.  At first only
half the screen disappears with "50MHZ and PWR" only showing.  Then screen
goes completely blank.  I have ferrite on everything between the power
supply and the amp except the power leads.  Coax in and out have ferrite on
them.  It does not come back after time.  It requires a power off and on to
restore the screen.  Anyone else?

Richard
*W7ZR* ex:5C5Z, CN2ZR, K2JSP, W6SBZ, W7KXR, K9ZIJ, W9KNF, W0KDF, W0MQU,
J68ZR, KC6ZR, PJ4/W7ZR, KH2,W7ZR, KH6/W7ZR, V31ZR, VK4AAZ, XE2DV


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Re: [Elecraft] 6m and 10m openings

[W5RDW]

Six meters is open so good here in NTexas, I have to take a coke/water/beer,
etc. break ever so often! Even my dog is mad at me sitting in front of the
rig (running primarily FT8). Surprisingly, the openings to EU and Asiatic
Russia have been almost common place here recently!

I'm having too much fun!



-
Roger W5RDW
--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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Re: [Elecraft] 6m off-frequency

[Richard Lamont]

On 11/06/17 22:41, Erik Basilier wrote:

> I don't have any suggestions for a solution beyond what others have already
> mentioned, but as a side note I would like to discuss the concept of "off
> frequency". 
> 
> It seems to me that these days, on the HF bands that I frequent, more and
> more people tune SSB to where the displayed frequency is on an 500 Hz
> boundary, and their rigs have sufficient frequency accuracy that excellent
> copyability results without any further adjustment. This approach is much
> faster than tuning by listening for most natural voice, which for me takes a
> few moments.
[snip]
> Now tuning SSB stations is a bit like tuning FM "channels". I am not 
> advocating
> "channelizing" the HF bands, as we should have the freedom to select our
> frequenciy according to the situation, but a lot of times, using a frequency
> ending in zeroes saves time and effort.

I agree with all of your post, including the bits I've snipped.

These days the majority of SSB signals are not just on exact multiples
of 500 Hz, but on multiples of 1 kHz too.

I see this evolutionary development as a big improvement over the old
analogue free-running LC VFO days, before digital readouts, when we
could neither measure nor control our frequencies to better than about
500 Hz. We needed the RIT just to cope with drift!

I am not advocating channelizing the HF bands either, as this would
curtail our freedom to an extent that is difficult to justify. However,
assuming a "channel" is 3 kHz wide, if we're working to multiples of 1
kHz, then we've already moved one third of the way to de-facto
channelization without even realising it!

Nowadays one the main sources of QRM is other stations exactly one or
two kHz away from us.

If as individuals we voluntarily choose frequencies that are exact
multiples of 3 kHz, then we can help to reduce this problem. It both
reduces QRM and makes for more efficient use of the spectrum.

The only Elecraft-specific aspect of this relates to CONFIG:VFO CRS,
where the available step sizes (for SSB) are 0.1, 0.5, 1.0 and 2.5 kHz.
It would be nice if 3.0 kHz could be added to this list in a future
firmware upgrade, and the selection made per-band as well as per-mode.

73,
Richard G4DYA
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Re: [Elecraft] 6m off-frequency

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

On my few excursions into SSB land, I've actually had operators answer my CQ
saying I was "off frequency" because I was not aligned exactly on some
multiple of 500 kHz. 

I apologize for any confusion and state that I am on XXX.440 or some similar
"non 500" frequency. And then return to CW. 

I do remember the days of a 10 minute long CQ followed by ten more minutes
of tuning across the Novice band looking for an answer. I often miss those
days and the ops I met back then. 

73, Ron AC7AC


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mike Rhodes
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:10 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6m off-frequency

...would certainly be interesting to set those operators who tune for the
"zeros" down in front of a vintage rig with a tuning dial - although I think
Erik alluded to that a bit in his post. Better yet, how about a stint in the
crystal controlled Novice band where you tuned from one end of the band to
the other in search of an answer to your call.

Mike / W8DN
Yes, a crusty OT

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Re: [Elecraft] 6m off-frequency

[Mike Rhodes]

...would certainly be interesting to set those operators who tune for 
the "zeros" down in front of a vintage rig with a tuning dial - although 
I think Erik alluded to that a bit in his post. Better yet, how about a 
stint in the crystal controlled Novice band where you tuned from one end 
of the band to the other in search of an answer to your call.


Mike / W8DN
Yes, a crusty OT

On 6/11/2017 5:41 PM, Erik Basilier wrote:

Ian,

I don't have any suggestions for a solution beyond what others have already
mentioned, but as a side note I would like to discuss the concept of "off
frequency".

It seems to me that these days, on the HF bands that I frequent, more and
more people tune SSB to where the displayed frequency is on an 500 Hz
boundary, and their rigs have sufficient frequency accuracy that excellent
copyability results without any further adjustment. This approach is much
faster than tuning by listening for most natural voice, which for me takes a
few moments. When I look over the shoulder of operators at Field Day, a
surprising percentage of people take a long time trying to tune for natural
voice, and still don't end up even close to correct tuning, so they should
be helped even more by just "going for the zeroes". While I haven't used 6m
recently, I would guess that the "zeroes" approach has become common there,
although the average rig may not be as frequency-accurate there as it would
be on the lower bands. Further to how to tune in other stations quickly, I
just found another way to minimize SSB tuning time when scanning the bands.
I configured the K3 to use the RIT knob to act as a coarse tuning knob
(CONFIG: VFO OFS), with 500 Hz steps (CONFIG: VFO CRS). I also set the main
tuning knob to a 500 Hz boundary. After setting things up this way, I use
the P3 with a span of +- 25 kHz to identify the next SSB station up or down
the band, then turn the RIT knob to put the passband over it. That puts me
close enough that only one more 500 Hz step will tune to perfect voice
clarity, and many times I will be tuned perfectly with no adjustment at all.
Much, much faster than cranking the VFO knob, first to approximate frequency
and then fine adjustment by listening. Occasionally it happens that the
station is not on a 500 Hz boundary, and I have to turn on RIT and fine
adjust by the RIT knob. Then I will usually soon hear that the station
saying that he is using an older rig. That is becoming rather rare, though.
After I am finished listening to the "off frequency" station, I just turn
off the RIT, and the RIT knob lets me tune in the next station quickly using
500 Hz steps, while leaving the main tuning knob alone. Now tuning SSB
stations is a bit like tuning FM "channels". I am not advocating
"channelizing" the HF bands, as we should have the freedom to select our
frequenciy according to the situation, but a lot of times, using a frequency
ending in zeroes saves time and effort.

73,
Erik K7TV

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ian Kahn
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:46 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] 6m off-frequency

All,

I've been operating a little in the ARRL VHF contest this weekend, on 6m,
and I'm having an interesting, and not good, experience. Everyone I try to
work is reporting that I'm off frequency by about 500 Hz. I don't have
RIT/XIT enabled. My K3, s/n 281, went to Elecraft earlier this year for some
upgrades and a tune-up, and came back with a clean bill of health and
meets/exceeds specs.

I admit, I am new to 6m operation, but this constant report of being
off-frequency concerns me. Is there some calibration step, specific to 6m,
that I missed? I don't get this report on any other band, and have never
gotten it in over 6 years of operating this rig. My assumption is that if it
came back from the Mother Ship clean, and I've never used 6m before, that it
should be properly calibrated.

Any guidance/advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks and 73,

--Ian
Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA  EM74ua
km4ik@gmail.com
10-10 #74624  North Georgia Chapter #2038 PODXS 070 #1962
K3 #281, P3 #688 KAT500 #860, KPA500 #1468
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Re: [Elecraft] 6m off-frequency

[Jim - N4ST]

I think it is not that difficult to be 500 Hz off on 6M.  I am frequently
200Hz off with the a K3S with the KTCX03-1 option factory installed.  Never
paid too much attention until the last few months when I started using
MSK144 on 6 Meters.  Now I can see that on 6M my frequency is typically off
by 50-70Hz from one day to the next and as much as 200 Hz if I let it go for
a month or so.  I figured that with a 0.5ppm (typical) KTCX03-1, it would
only vary 25 Hz from day to day.  Yes, I have adjusted REF CAL to beat with
WWV.  I've also performed the Norm/Rev CW tone adjustment and even the WSJTX
frequency cal.

___
73,
Jim - N4ST

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Erik Basilier
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2017 17:42
To: 'Ian Kahn' ; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6m off-frequency

Ian,

I don't have any suggestions for a solution beyond what others have already
mentioned, but as a side note I would like to discuss the concept of "off
frequency". 

It seems to me that these days, on the HF bands that I frequent, more and
more people tune SSB to where the displayed frequency is on an 500 Hz
boundary, and their rigs have sufficient frequency accuracy that excellent
copyability results without any further adjustment. This approach is much
faster than tuning by listening for most natural voice, which for me takes a
few moments. When I look over the shoulder of operators at Field Day, a
surprising percentage of people take a long time trying to tune for natural
voice, and still don't end up even close to correct tuning, so they should
be helped even more by just "going for the zeroes". While I haven't used 6m
recently, I would guess that the "zeroes" approach has become common there,
although the average rig may not be as frequency-accurate there as it would
be on the lower bands. Further to how to tune in other stations quickly, I
just found another way to minimize SSB tuning time when scanning the bands.
I configured the K3 to use the RIT knob to act as a coarse tuning knob
(CONFIG: VFO OFS), with 500 Hz steps (CONFIG: VFO CRS). I also set the main
tuning knob to a 500 Hz boundary. After setting things up this way, I use
the P3 with a span of +- 25 kHz to identify the next SSB station up or down
the band, then turn the RIT knob to put the passband over it. That puts me
close enough that only one more 500 Hz step will tune to perfect voice
clarity, and many times I will be tuned perfectly with no adjustment at all.
Much, much faster than cranking the VFO knob, first to approximate frequency
and then fine adjustment by listening. Occasionally it happens that the
station is not on a 500 Hz boundary, and I have to turn on RIT and fine
adjust by the RIT knob. Then I will usually soon hear that the station
saying that he is using an older rig. That is becoming rather rare, though.
After I am finished listening to the "off frequency" station, I just turn
off the RIT, and the RIT knob lets me tune in the next station quickly using
500 Hz steps, while leaving the main tuning knob alone. Now tuning SSB
stations is a bit like tuning FM "channels". I am not advocating
"channelizing" the HF bands, as we should have the freedom to select our
frequenciy according to the situation, but a lot of times, using a frequency
ending in zeroes saves time and effort.

73,
Erik K7TV

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ian Kahn
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:46 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] 6m off-frequency

All,

I've been operating a little in the ARRL VHF contest this weekend, on 6m,
and I'm having an interesting, and not good, experience. Everyone I try to
work is reporting that I'm off frequency by about 500 Hz. I don't have
RIT/XIT enabled. My K3, s/n 281, went to Elecraft earlier this year for some
upgrades and a tune-up, and came back with a clean bill of health and
meets/exceeds specs.

I admit, I am new to 6m operation, but this constant report of being
off-frequency concerns me. Is there some calibration step, specific to 6m,
that I missed? I don't get this report on any other band, and have never
gotten it in over 6 years of operating this rig. My assumption is that if it
came back from the Mother Ship clean, and I've never used 6m before, that it
should be properly calibrated.

Any guidance/advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks and 73,

--Ian
Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA  EM74ua
km4ik@gmail.com
10-10 #74624  North Georgia Chapter #2038 PODXS 070 #1962
K3 #281, P3 #688 KAT500 #860, KPA500 #1468
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Re: [Elecraft] 6m off-frequency

[Nr4c]

How recently did you calibrate your P3 frequency reference?

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Jun 11, 2017, at 12:16 PM, Ian Kahn, KM4IK  wrote:
> 
> Ron/All,
> 
> As I state in my original email, I don't have this issue on any other band.
> The first couple of times other ops reported me off frequency a bit, I
> thought the issue to be as you suggest - differences in how different ops
> hear the signal, a 1-2 Hz difference, etc. However, EVERY operator I tried
> to contact reported the same thing - that I am off frequency by about 500
> Hz, that I need to adjust my RIT (which is not enabled), etc. That's why I'm
> concerned about a possible issue. I was also using my P3 to tune to signals,
> so I feel fairly certain that I was, in fact, on frequency as my receiver
> saw it.
> 
> Thanks and 73
> 
> Ian Kahn, KM4IK
> Roswell, GA  EM74ua
> km4ik@gmail.com
> 10-10 #74624  North Georgia Chapter #2038
> PODXS 070 #1962
> K3 #281, P3 #688 KAT500 #860, KPA500 #1468
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Ron Manfredi [mailto:wa2...@optonline.net] 
> Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:55 AM
> To: Ian Kahn ; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6m off-frequency
> 
> Have you experienced this on other bands, during casual operating since the
> rig was returned to you?
> 
> I find that when I am on SSB, I tune until my ear may likes what I am 
> hearing , and as such,  I may not be exactly on their frequency.   (that 
> is one reason for RIT!)  Also, I have found that some ops feel that they 
> have to be tuned to an even frequency on their digital display.   For 
> them, if you are on 14.219.8 and not on 14.220.0  then you are off

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Re: [Elecraft] 6m off-frequency

[Erik Basilier]

Ian,

I don't have any suggestions for a solution beyond what others have already
mentioned, but as a side note I would like to discuss the concept of "off
frequency". 

It seems to me that these days, on the HF bands that I frequent, more and
more people tune SSB to where the displayed frequency is on an 500 Hz
boundary, and their rigs have sufficient frequency accuracy that excellent
copyability results without any further adjustment. This approach is much
faster than tuning by listening for most natural voice, which for me takes a
few moments. When I look over the shoulder of operators at Field Day, a
surprising percentage of people take a long time trying to tune for natural
voice, and still don't end up even close to correct tuning, so they should
be helped even more by just "going for the zeroes". While I haven't used 6m
recently, I would guess that the "zeroes" approach has become common there,
although the average rig may not be as frequency-accurate there as it would
be on the lower bands. Further to how to tune in other stations quickly, I
just found another way to minimize SSB tuning time when scanning the bands.
I configured the K3 to use the RIT knob to act as a coarse tuning knob
(CONFIG: VFO OFS), with 500 Hz steps (CONFIG: VFO CRS). I also set the main
tuning knob to a 500 Hz boundary. After setting things up this way, I use
the P3 with a span of +- 25 kHz to identify the next SSB station up or down
the band, then turn the RIT knob to put the passband over it. That puts me
close enough that only one more 500 Hz step will tune to perfect voice
clarity, and many times I will be tuned perfectly with no adjustment at all.
Much, much faster than cranking the VFO knob, first to approximate frequency
and then fine adjustment by listening. Occasionally it happens that the
station is not on a 500 Hz boundary, and I have to turn on RIT and fine
adjust by the RIT knob. Then I will usually soon hear that the station
saying that he is using an older rig. That is becoming rather rare, though.
After I am finished listening to the "off frequency" station, I just turn
off the RIT, and the RIT knob lets me tune in the next station quickly using
500 Hz steps, while leaving the main tuning knob alone. Now tuning SSB
stations is a bit like tuning FM "channels". I am not advocating
"channelizing" the HF bands, as we should have the freedom to select our
frequenciy according to the situation, but a lot of times, using a frequency
ending in zeroes saves time and effort.

73, 
Erik K7TV

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ian Kahn
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:46 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] 6m off-frequency

All,

I've been operating a little in the ARRL VHF contest this weekend, on 6m,
and I'm having an interesting, and not good, experience. Everyone I try to
work is reporting that I'm off frequency by about 500 Hz. I don't have
RIT/XIT enabled. My K3, s/n 281, went to Elecraft earlier this year for some
upgrades and a tune-up, and came back with a clean bill of health and
meets/exceeds specs.

I admit, I am new to 6m operation, but this constant report of being
off-frequency concerns me. Is there some calibration step, specific to 6m,
that I missed? I don't get this report on any other band, and have never
gotten it in over 6 years of operating this rig. My assumption is that if it
came back from the Mother Ship clean, and I've never used 6m before, that it
should be properly calibrated.

Any guidance/advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks and 73,

--Ian
Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA  EM74ua
km4ik@gmail.com
10-10 #74624  North Georgia Chapter #2038 PODXS 070 #1962
K3 #281, P3 #688 KAT500 #860, KPA500 #1468
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Re: [Elecraft] 6m off-frequency

[Fred Jensen]

Indeed!  The huge gulf between "precision" and "accuracy."   A display 
with gobs of decimal places can be colossally but precisely wrong.  It 
is also true that frequencies that end in .000 are "better" for many 
people so I avoid them when looking for a run frequency. [:-)


This problem on 6 meters sure sounds like XIT or maybe SPLIT is engaged 
for that band and has been remembered.  Years ago, 30 meters went dead 
with infinite SWR on my K3 -- all the rest were fine.  Wayne finally 
telephoned me and his first question was, "Which antenna is selected?"  
Antenna selection is remembered by band.


73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 6/11/17 11:28 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:


Also, the advent of digital readouts can cause this type of discussion 
to arise.  Seems that everyone thinks the digital display is 
absolutely accurate.  In most cases it is not a frequency measuring 
system but rather a frequency display based on certain accepted 
oscillator frequencies {which may or may not be absolute}  and math 
calculations if the firmware.   It seems that we've migrated to 
setting the radio with the display to be on a specific indicated value.


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Re: [Elecraft] 6m off-frequency

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

You say RIT is not engaged, but what about XIT?   Either of these being 
ON can cause an issue in this regard.Additionally, the way one 
person tunes to a SSB station may cause some frequency disparity between 
two stations.   Excercise: with eyes closed, tune to a station and then 
look at the display.


Also, the advent of digital readouts can cause this type of discussion 
to arise.  Seems that everyone thinks the digital display is absolutely 
accurate.  In most cases it is not a frequency measuring system but 
rather a frequency display based on certain accepted oscillator 
frequencies {which may or may not be absolute}  and math calculations if 
the firmware.   It seems that we've migrated to setting the radio with 
the display to be on a specific indicated value.


73

Bob, K4TAX




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Re: [Elecraft] 6m off-frequency

[Ian Kahn, KM4IK]

Thanks, Don. I'll give that a try and post results here later.

73 de,

--Ian
Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA  EM74ua
km4ik@gmail.com
10-10 #74624  North Georgia Chapter #2038
PODXS 070 #1962
K3 #281, P3 #688 KAT500 #860, KPA500 #1468

-Original Message-
From: Don Wilhelm [mailto:donw...@embarqmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2017 12:55 PM
To: Ian Kahn, KM4IK ; 'Ron Manfredi' 
; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6m off-frequency

Ian,

Can you receive any station at a known frequency.  Here in the US it is easy to 
use WWV, but other standard frequency stations exist around the world.

Tune to the standard frequency station and do the Reference Oscillator 
Calibration.  K3 manual page 50.  Use Method 2.

I cannot guarantee it will fix the problem, but it is the first thing to try.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/11/2017 12:16 PM, Ian Kahn, KM4IK wrote:
> Ron/All,
> 
> As I state in my original email, I don't have this issue on any other band.
> The first couple of times other ops reported me off frequency a bit, I 
> thought the issue to be as you suggest - differences in how different 
> ops hear the signal, a 1-2 Hz difference, etc. However, EVERY operator 
> I tried to contact reported the same thing - that I am off frequency 
> by about 500 Hz, that I need to adjust my RIT (which is not enabled), 
> etc. That's why I'm concerned about a possible issue. I was also using 
> my P3 to tune to signals, so I feel fairly certain that I was, in 
> fact, on frequency as my receiver saw it.
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] 6m off-frequency

[Don Wilhelm]

Ian,

Can you receive any station at a known frequency.  Here in the US it is 
easy to use WWV, but other standard frequency stations exist around the 
world.


Tune to the standard frequency station and do the Reference Oscillator 
Calibration.  K3 manual page 50.  Use Method 2.


I cannot guarantee it will fix the problem, but it is the first thing to 
try.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/11/2017 12:16 PM, Ian Kahn, KM4IK wrote:

Ron/All,

As I state in my original email, I don't have this issue on any other band.
The first couple of times other ops reported me off frequency a bit, I
thought the issue to be as you suggest - differences in how different ops
hear the signal, a 1-2 Hz difference, etc. However, EVERY operator I tried
to contact reported the same thing - that I am off frequency by about 500
Hz, that I need to adjust my RIT (which is not enabled), etc. That's why I'm
concerned about a possible issue. I was also using my P3 to tune to signals,
so I feel fairly certain that I was, in fact, on frequency as my receiver
saw it.


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Re: [Elecraft] 6m off-frequency

[Ian Kahn, KM4IK]

Ron/All,

As I state in my original email, I don't have this issue on any other band.
The first couple of times other ops reported me off frequency a bit, I
thought the issue to be as you suggest - differences in how different ops
hear the signal, a 1-2 Hz difference, etc. However, EVERY operator I tried
to contact reported the same thing - that I am off frequency by about 500
Hz, that I need to adjust my RIT (which is not enabled), etc. That's why I'm
concerned about a possible issue. I was also using my P3 to tune to signals,
so I feel fairly certain that I was, in fact, on frequency as my receiver
saw it.

Thanks and 73

Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA  EM74ua
km4ik@gmail.com
10-10 #74624  North Georgia Chapter #2038
PODXS 070 #1962
K3 #281, P3 #688 KAT500 #860, KPA500 #1468

-Original Message-
From: Ron Manfredi [mailto:wa2...@optonline.net] 
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:55 AM
To: Ian Kahn ; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6m off-frequency

Have you experienced this on other bands, during casual operating since the
rig was returned to you?

I find that when I am on SSB, I tune until my ear may likes what I am 
hearing , and as such,  I may not be exactly on their frequency.   (that 
is one reason for RIT!)  Also, I have found that some ops feel that they 
have to be tuned to an even frequency on their digital display.   For 
them, if you are on 14.219.8 and not on 14.220.0  then you are off
frequency.


Ron  WA2EIO


On 6/11/2017 11:45 AM, Ian Kahn wrote:
> All,
>
> I've been operating a little in the ARRL VHF contest this weekend, on 6m,
> and I'm having an interesting, and not good, experience. Everyone I try to
> work is reporting that I'm off frequency by about 500 Hz. I don't have
> RIT/XIT enabled. My K3, s/n 281, went to Elecraft earlier this year for
> some upgrades and a tune-up, and came back with a clean bill of health and
> meets/exceeds specs.
>
> I admit, I am new to 6m operation, but this constant report of being
> off-frequency concerns me. Is there some calibration step, specific to 6m,
> that I missed? I don't get this report on any other band, and have never
> gotten it in over 6 years of operating this rig. My assumption is that if
> it came back from the Mother Ship clean, and I've never used 6m before,
> that it should be properly calibrated.
>
> Any guidance/advice is greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks and 73,
>
> --Ian
> Ian Kahn, KM4IK
> Roswell, GA  EM74ua
> km4ik@gmail.com
> 10-10 #74624  North Georgia Chapter #2038
> PODXS 070 #1962
> K3 #281, P3 #688 KAT500 #860, KPA500 #1468
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> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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> Message delivered to wa2...@optonline.net
>


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Re: [Elecraft] 6m off-frequency

[Ron Manfredi]

Have you experienced this on other bands, during casual operating since 
the rig was returned to you?


I find that when I am on SSB, I tune until my ear may likes what I am 
hearing , and as such,  I may not be exactly on their frequency.   (that 
is one reason for RIT!)  Also, I have found that some ops feel that they 
have to be tuned to an even frequency on their digital display.   For 
them, if you are on 14.219.8 and not on 14.220.0  then you are off 
frequency.



Ron  WA2EIO


On 6/11/2017 11:45 AM, Ian Kahn wrote:

All,

I've been operating a little in the ARRL VHF contest this weekend, on 6m,
and I'm having an interesting, and not good, experience. Everyone I try to
work is reporting that I'm off frequency by about 500 Hz. I don't have
RIT/XIT enabled. My K3, s/n 281, went to Elecraft earlier this year for
some upgrades and a tune-up, and came back with a clean bill of health and
meets/exceeds specs.

I admit, I am new to 6m operation, but this constant report of being
off-frequency concerns me. Is there some calibration step, specific to 6m,
that I missed? I don't get this report on any other band, and have never
gotten it in over 6 years of operating this rig. My assumption is that if
it came back from the Mother Ship clean, and I've never used 6m before,
that it should be properly calibrated.

Any guidance/advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks and 73,

--Ian
Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA  EM74ua
km4ik@gmail.com
10-10 #74624  North Georgia Chapter #2038
PODXS 070 #1962
K3 #281, P3 #688 KAT500 #860, KPA500 #1468
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Re: [Elecraft] 6m birdies and K3S and/or new synth boards

[Dave G3WGN M6O]

Thanks Joe for a very helpful note.  This will materially aid my 'birdie
hunting' when I upgrade S/N 4474 with new synths and internal preamp in a
couple of weeks time.
73 Dave G3WGN M6O WJ6O



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Re: [Elecraft] 6m birdies and K3S and/or new synth boards

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

The spur also changes with bandwidth.  In my K3 it happens to fall at
50.279.00 with FC=1.50, BW=2.80 in DATA_A when the rig is at 50.276.00.
When going to FC=2.20, BW=4.00 the "spur" moves to ~50.285.5 and in
USB "NORM" it falls at 50.275.71 (zero beat).  Again, this is fortunate
in that the spur is equivalent to a -96 dBm signal as measured on the
P3 and would be a killer if it fell "in band".

I see additional (bothersome) spurs at 50.047.57 (-100 dBm), 50,082.72
(-116 dBm), 50.095.32 (-119 dBm), 50.102.04 (-116 dBm), 50.110.52 (-118
dBm), 50.111.65 (-120 dBm), 50.112.78 (-120 dBm), 50.150.26 (-110 dBm),
50.193.57 (-103 dBm), 50.222.56 (-119 dBm),  50.351.35 (-119 dBm),
50.390.82 (-119 dBm), 50.393.90 (-110 dBm), 50.435.85 (-119 dBm),
50.465.09 (-120 dBm), and 50.486.11 (-120 dBm) - frequencies are zero
beat in USB with DSP = norm.  Measurements were made with dummy load
and PRE_1 in K3 s/n 1450 with 2x KSYN3A and KXV3B.

"Bothersome" to me is > 6 dB above the receiver noise floor under the
measurement conditions described.  I have not attempted to catalog
spurs on the other bands.

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV


On 2015-06-25 9:14 AM, Ken_ke2n via Elecraft wrote:

My K3 with the new synth (and upgraded DSP board) has an unfortunate "birdy"
on 50.276 (unfortunate because this is the JT65 calling frequency in the
US).  I know it is a DSP-type artifact because the pitch of the birdy
changes with the IF Shift control.  The IF shift control does not change the
frequency of the signal, just the birdy. This phenomenon is actually useful.
By shifting the center frequency to 1.35 kHz I can move the spur down to
zero beat. And, like all spurs, the pitch of the spur changes a lot faster
than the tuning rate of the radio. The pitch of the spur also varies with
the setting of the crystal filter offset (mine is set at 200 Hz).



-
73
Ken

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Re: [Elecraft] 6m birdies and K3S and/or new synth boards

[Ken_ke2n via Elecraft]

My K3 with the new synth (and upgraded DSP board) has an unfortunate "birdy"
on 50.276 (unfortunate because this is the JT65 calling frequency in the
US).  I know it is a DSP-type artifact because the pitch of the birdy
changes with the IF Shift control.  The IF shift control does not change the
frequency of the signal, just the birdy. This phenomenon is actually useful.
By shifting the center frequency to 1.35 kHz I can move the spur down to
zero beat. And, like all spurs, the pitch of the spur changes a lot faster
than the tuning rate of the radio. The pitch of the spur also varies with
the setting of the crystal filter offset (mine is set at 200 Hz).



-
73
Ken

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Re: [Elecraft] 6m birdies and K3S and/or new synth boards

[David Aslin G3WGN]

Got it.
73 David G3WGN



Sent from my Samsung device


 Original message 
From: Guy Olinger K2AV 
Date: 23/06/2015 20:16 (GMT+01:00)
To: Brian Hemmis 
Cc: Wayne Burdick , elecraft@mailman.qth.net, David Aslin 
G3WGN 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6m birdies and K3S and/or new synth boards

Yes indeed. Checking for birdies or any such with an unterminated antenna jack 
is invalid. You can terminate with a dummy load, or more practically with an 
antenna listening to normal band noise.

73, Guy K2AV

On Tuesday, June 23, 2015, Brian Hemmis 
mailto:bhem...@mac.com>> wrote:
David, Your friend states there are 2 dozen birdies on 6 meters with the 
antenna DISCONNECTED. This tells me nothing. Please tell him to connect a 
RESONANT 6 meter antenna to the radio then tell me how many birdies he hears.
73, Brian K3USC


> On Jun 23, 2015, at 1:41 PM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:
>
> David,
>
> When we designed the K3S, we very carefully evaluated internally generated 
> spurs on all bands. We found that the KSYN3 and KSYN3A had roughly the same 
> number. This is consistent with both being high-level signal sources; you 
> can't get rid of spurs entirely. All but a very few are masked by band noise, 
> as well.
>
> 6 meters was no exception. Both the old and new synths show some spurs on 
> this band, and we adjusted PLL divider ratios, etc., to minimize them. But 
> the new synth -- in our tests -- doesn't have any more than the old. I use a 
> pair of the new synths in my lab K3S, as well as the KXV3B, which includes 
> premamp 2 (-145 dB MDS). I've had no problem with spurs on 6 meters.
>
> In some cases, it could come down to how the cables are oriented. Make sure 
> you're orienting the cables as described in the manual, and if you feel that 
> you have excessive spurs, email customer support. If we come up with any 
> improved cable routing, we'll post to the list.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
> On Jun 23, 2015, at 8:52 AM, Dave G3WGN M6O  wrote:
>
>> Is there anyone out there yet who has done a detailed study of 6m birdies 
>> with the new synth and either external or internal preamp?  A good friend 
>> with an early K3 is reluctant to upgrade to K3S as he hears a couple of 
>> dozen birdies on 6m with antenna disconnected.
>> So how has this aspect of K3 performance evolved from early K3 (his is S/N 
>> sub-100) to the K3S?
>> 73
>> David G3WGN  M6O
>> Member of the 6Gs team at E6GG in September 2015 
>> www.e6gg.com<http://www.e6gg.com><http://www.e6gg.com>
>> Work us on as many bands as you can!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: 
>> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/6m-birdies-and-K3S-and-or-new-synth-boards-tp7604211.html
>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> __
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Re: [Elecraft] 6m birdies and K3S and/or new synth boards

[David Aslin G3WGN]

Thanks Wayne, that's helpful. Just want to be sure I've optimised 6m 
performance and passed on any suggestions to my buddy.
73 David G3WGN



Sent from my Samsung smart (ish) phone


 Original message 
From: Wayne Burdick 
Date: 23/06/2015 19:39 (GMT+01:00)
To: David Aslin G3WGN 
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6m birdies and K3S and/or new synth boards

David,

When we designed the K3S, we very carefully evaluated internally generated 
spurs on all bands. We found that the KSYN3 and KSYN3A had roughly the same 
number. This is consistent with both being high-level signal sources; you can't 
get rid of spurs entirely. All but a very few are masked by band noise, as well.

6 meters was no exception. Both the old and new synths show some spurs on this 
band, and we adjusted PLL divider ratios, etc., to minimize them. But the new 
synth -- in our tests -- doesn't have any more than the old. I use a pair of 
the new synths in my lab K3S, as well as the KXV3B, which includes premamp 2 
(-145 dB MDS). I've had no problem with spurs on 6 meters.

In some cases, it could come down to how the cables are oriented. Make sure 
you're orienting the cables as described in the manual, and if you feel that 
you have excessive spurs, email customer support. If we come up with any 
improved cable routing, we'll post to the list.

73,
Wayne
N6KR


On Jun 23, 2015, at 8:52 AM, Dave G3WGN M6O  wrote:

> Is there anyone out there yet who has done a detailed study of 6m birdies 
> with the new synth and either external or internal preamp?  A good friend 
> with an early K3 is reluctant to upgrade to K3S as he hears a couple of dozen 
> birdies on 6m with antenna disconnected.
> So how has this aspect of K3 performance evolved from early K3 (his is S/N 
> sub-100) to the K3S?
> 73
> David G3WGN  M6O
> Member of the 6Gs team at E6GG in September 2015 
> www.e6gg.com<http://www.e6gg.com>
> Work us on as many bands as you can!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/6m-birdies-and-K3S-and-or-new-synth-boards-tp7604211.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] 6m birdies and K3S and/or new synth boards

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

Yes indeed. Checking for birdies or any such with an unterminated antenna
jack is invalid. You can terminate with a dummy load, or more practically
with an antenna listening to normal band noise.

73, Guy K2AV

On Tuesday, June 23, 2015, Brian Hemmis  wrote:

> David, Your friend states there are 2 dozen birdies on 6 meters with the
> antenna DISCONNECTED. This tells me nothing. Please tell him to connect a
> RESONANT 6 meter antenna to the radio then tell me how many birdies he
> hears.
> 73, Brian K3USC
>
>
> > On Jun 23, 2015, at 1:41 PM, Wayne Burdick  > wrote:
> >
> > David,
> >
> > When we designed the K3S, we very carefully evaluated internally
> generated spurs on all bands. We found that the KSYN3 and KSYN3A had
> roughly the same number. This is consistent with both being high-level
> signal sources; you can't get rid of spurs entirely. All but a very few are
> masked by band noise, as well.
> >
> > 6 meters was no exception. Both the old and new synths show some spurs
> on this band, and we adjusted PLL divider ratios, etc., to minimize them.
> But the new synth -- in our tests -- doesn't have any more than the old. I
> use a pair of the new synths in my lab K3S, as well as the KXV3B, which
> includes premamp 2 (-145 dB MDS). I've had no problem with spurs on 6
> meters.
> >
> > In some cases, it could come down to how the cables are oriented. Make
> sure you're orienting the cables as described in the manual, and if you
> feel that you have excessive spurs, email customer support. If we come up
> with any improved cable routing, we'll post to the list.
> >
> > 73,
> > Wayne
> > N6KR
> >
> >
> > On Jun 23, 2015, at 8:52 AM, Dave G3WGN M6O  > wrote:
> >
> >> Is there anyone out there yet who has done a detailed study of 6m
> birdies with the new synth and either external or internal preamp?  A good
> friend with an early K3 is reluctant to upgrade to K3S as he hears a couple
> of dozen birdies on 6m with antenna disconnected.
> >> So how has this aspect of K3 performance evolved from early K3 (his is
> S/N sub-100) to the K3S?
> >> 73
> >> David G3WGN  M6O
> >> Member of the 6Gs team at E6GG in September 2015 www.e6gg.com<
> http://www.e6gg.com>
> >> Work us on as many bands as you can!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> View this message in context:
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/6m-birdies-and-K3S-and-or-new-synth-boards-tp7604211.html
> >> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >> __
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> >
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Re: [Elecraft] 6m birdies and K3S and/or new synth boards

[Jim Brown]

On Tue,6/23/2015 10:44 AM, Brian Hemmis wrote:

David, Your friend states there are 2 dozen birdies on 6 meters with the 
antenna DISCONNECTED. This tells me nothing. Please tell him to connect a 
RESONANT 6 meter antenna to the radio then tell me how many birdies he hears.


It tells me a LOT. With no antenna connected and a 50 ohm resistor 
across the antenna input, I hear birdies on 6M from my station logging 
computer. That tells me that the K3 has a Pin One Problem on one or more 
of the dozen or so connectors to which I have cables connected -- DC 
power, Aux power out (for P3), audio I/O, mic, headphones, IF out to P3, 
RX antenna in, AUX antenna in, paddle, amplifier key line, AUX cable, 
and RS232 cable. With the antenna connected and pointed away from the 
shack, these birdies are at least 6 dB above band noise when the band is 
quiet.


This is in addition to the birdies generated within my K3s that move 
around as the main RX is tuned. Interestingly, I do NOT see birdies 
related to the SubRX. Those moving birdies are a real PITA -- I use the 
P3 to look for weak CW signals during double-hop E-skip openings, and 
those internally generated moving birdies look just like those weak CW 
signals. This greatly reduces the usefulness of the P3 on 6M. 
Installation of the new synth boards has not changed that. Although the 
preamp in the KXV3B may have reduced my noise level a bit, I had an 
outboard GasFET preamp before installing it, and heard the birdies with 
it too.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] 6m birdies and K3S and/or new synth boards

[Brian Hemmis]

David, Your friend states there are 2 dozen birdies on 6 meters with the 
antenna DISCONNECTED. This tells me nothing. Please tell him to connect a 
RESONANT 6 meter antenna to the radio then tell me how many birdies he hears.
73, Brian K3USC


> On Jun 23, 2015, at 1:41 PM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:
> 
> David,
> 
> When we designed the K3S, we very carefully evaluated internally generated 
> spurs on all bands. We found that the KSYN3 and KSYN3A had roughly the same 
> number. This is consistent with both being high-level signal sources; you 
> can't get rid of spurs entirely. All but a very few are masked by band noise, 
> as well. 
> 
> 6 meters was no exception. Both the old and new synths show some spurs on 
> this band, and we adjusted PLL divider ratios, etc., to minimize them. But 
> the new synth -- in our tests -- doesn't have any more than the old. I use a 
> pair of the new synths in my lab K3S, as well as the KXV3B, which includes 
> premamp 2 (-145 dB MDS). I've had no problem with spurs on 6 meters. 
> 
> In some cases, it could come down to how the cables are oriented. Make sure 
> you're orienting the cables as described in the manual, and if you feel that 
> you have excessive spurs, email customer support. If we come up with any 
> improved cable routing, we'll post to the list.
> 
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
> 
> 
> On Jun 23, 2015, at 8:52 AM, Dave G3WGN M6O  wrote:
> 
>> Is there anyone out there yet who has done a detailed study of 6m birdies 
>> with the new synth and either external or internal preamp?  A good friend 
>> with an early K3 is reluctant to upgrade to K3S as he hears a couple of 
>> dozen birdies on 6m with antenna disconnected.
>> So how has this aspect of K3 performance evolved from early K3 (his is S/N 
>> sub-100) to the K3S?
>> 73
>> David G3WGN  M6O
>> Member of the 6Gs team at E6GG in September 2015 
>> www.e6gg.com
>> Work us on as many bands as you can!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> View this message in context: 
>> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/6m-birdies-and-K3S-and-or-new-synth-boards-tp7604211.html
>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> __
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Re: [Elecraft] 6m birdies and K3S and/or new synth boards

[Wayne Burdick]

David,

When we designed the K3S, we very carefully evaluated internally generated 
spurs on all bands. We found that the KSYN3 and KSYN3A had roughly the same 
number. This is consistent with both being high-level signal sources; you can't 
get rid of spurs entirely. All but a very few are masked by band noise, as 
well. 

6 meters was no exception. Both the old and new synths show some spurs on this 
band, and we adjusted PLL divider ratios, etc., to minimize them. But the new 
synth -- in our tests -- doesn't have any more than the old. I use a pair of 
the new synths in my lab K3S, as well as the KXV3B, which includes premamp 2 
(-145 dB MDS). I've had no problem with spurs on 6 meters. 

In some cases, it could come down to how the cables are oriented. Make sure 
you're orienting the cables as described in the manual, and if you feel that 
you have excessive spurs, email customer support. If we come up with any 
improved cable routing, we'll post to the list.

73,
Wayne
N6KR


On Jun 23, 2015, at 8:52 AM, Dave G3WGN M6O  wrote:

> Is there anyone out there yet who has done a detailed study of 6m birdies 
> with the new synth and either external or internal preamp?  A good friend 
> with an early K3 is reluctant to upgrade to K3S as he hears a couple of dozen 
> birdies on 6m with antenna disconnected.
> So how has this aspect of K3 performance evolved from early K3 (his is S/N 
> sub-100) to the K3S?
> 73
> David G3WGN  M6O
> Member of the 6Gs team at E6GG in September 2015 
> www.e6gg.com
> Work us on as many bands as you can!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/6m-birdies-and-K3S-and-or-new-synth-boards-tp7604211.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] 6M repeater use K3 - fixed

[Bill Frantz]

Well, I found the problem. I had been playing with PL DEV at 
Wayne't request back in September. Wayne wanted to know what the 
minimum deviation that would work on the transverters.


On 9/6/14 at 8:36 AM, Wayne wrote:

2. To adjust the PL DEViation, locate the FM DEV menu entry, 
then tap '1' to switch to PL DEV. This applies to both the K3 
and KX3.


I had dialed it back to 0.15, the minimum and everything worked 
well on 2M, but I hadn't tried 6M. When I raised the value from 
0.15 to 0.21 the repeater started working. (It fails at the 
intermediate setting of 0.18). The raspy tone I heard on the KX3 
was audio feedback with the speaker too close to the mic.


Thanks for Michael Eberle, KI0HA for mentioning FM deviation. It 
helped me remember that I had performed the experiment.


73 Bill AE6JV

---
Bill Frantz| I like the farmers' market   | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | because I can get fruits and | 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | vegetables without stickers. | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] 6M repeater use K3

[Bill Frantz]

Mine is set to the default, 5.0.
FWIW, the microcode is version 05.10
D1 is 02.83
D2 is 00.00 only one receiver
FL is 01.17
dr is 00.00 no DVR

When I checked the versions, the utility found newer software. I 
tried hitting the repeater with microcode 05.14 and FL 1.19, but 
it still fails. There is still that raspy note when listening to 
the K3 transmit frequency. The frequency is higher than my 600 
Hz CW tone. (Note that I am running the KX3 without an antenna 
and it is showing about S7 signal strength.)


73 Bill AE6JV


On 3/5/15 at 5:47 PM, mtebe...@mchsi.com (Michael Eberle) wrote:


I think there is a setting in the config menu for FM deviation.  Maybe it is 
set too low? 

Mike 
KI0HA


Sent from my U.S. Cellular® Smartphone

 Original message From: Bill 
Frantz  Date:03/05/2015  5:22 
PM  (GMT-06:00) To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Subject: [Elecraft] 6M repeater use K3 
I've been trying to get my K3 to hit the WVARA repeater 
on 6M. The repeater is about 2 miles from the house, so power 
isn't an issue. I can hit it with my KX3 and the IC-706etc in 
my car. I can also use the K3 with the 2M internal transverter 
to reach 2M repeaters.


I have the K3 in FM T mode, and when I hold PITCH on the K3, I 
get 151.4 in the VFO-A display and PL TONE in the VFO-B display 
which I think shows that the K3 should be sending the tone. 
(Also when I PTT on the microphone, the K3 displays the correct 
repeater input frequency in VFO-A.)


When I use the KX3, the K3 can clearly hear when the KX3 is 
sending the 151.4 Hz CTCSS tone and when it is not. Using the 
KX3 to listen to the K3, I can not hear the K3 sending the 
tone. I do hear a loud raspy note. quite unlike the tone I hear 
when the KX3 is the transmitter. This raspy note does not go 
away when I turn tone off after holding PITCH on the K3.


Does anyone have any ideas?

73 Bill AE6JV

---
Bill Frantz|Security, like correctness, is| Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  |not an add-on feature. - Attr-| 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |ibuted to Andrew Tanenbaum| Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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-
Bill Frantz| When it comes to the world | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | around us, is there any choice | 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | but to explore? - Lisa Randall | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] 6M repeater use K3

[Michael Eberle]

I think there is a setting in the config menu for FM deviation.  Maybe it is 
set too low? 

Mike 
KI0HA


Sent from my U.S. Cellular® Smartphone

 Original message From: Bill Frantz 
 Date:03/05/2015  5:22 PM  (GMT-06:00) 
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] 6M 
repeater use K3 
I've been trying to get my K3 to hit the WVARA repeater on 6M. 
The repeater is about 2 miles from the house, so power isn't an 
issue. I can hit it with my KX3 and the IC-706etc in my car. I 
can also use the K3 with the 2M internal transverter to reach 2M repeaters.

I have the K3 in FM T mode, and when I hold PITCH on the K3, I 
get 151.4 in the VFO-A display and PL TONE in the VFO-B display 
which I think shows that the K3 should be sending the tone. 
(Also when I PTT on the microphone, the K3 displays the correct 
repeater input frequency in VFO-A.)

When I use the KX3, the K3 can clearly hear when the KX3 is 
sending the 151.4 Hz CTCSS tone and when it is not. Using the 
KX3 to listen to the K3, I can not hear the K3 sending the tone. 
I do hear a loud raspy note. quite unlike the tone I hear when 
the KX3 is the transmitter. This raspy note does not go away 
when I turn tone off after holding PITCH on the K3.

Does anyone have any ideas?

73 Bill AE6JV

---
Bill Frantz|Security, like correctness, is| Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  |not an add-on feature. - Attr-| 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |ibuted to Andrew Tanenbaum| Los Gatos, 
CA 95032

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Re: [Elecraft] 6m......just my thoughts

[Donald Butler]

This OT 6 meter thread has been beaten to death and is probably ready to
be retired so I have just a couple points and I'll quit.  The magic band
has always been there, and has always been lots of fun.  Like many
others, I have enjoyed 6M since the late 1970s.  I would have been bored
to death if I had worked 6M only, but it has always been a fun place to
go during Spring months for the annual sporadic-E season.  Up until the
late 1990s, a dedicated 6 meter rig was needed to get on the band, so
most hams never bothered to give it a go and the band was always lonely
even in the Spring.  During that era, a guy who just tuned and never
called CQ would likely miss most band openings and would naively think
the band was always dead (without anyone transmitting a hot band will
always sound dead!.  Yes, there were a few beacons then, but not as many
as today.  The game changed in the late 1990s when new HF transceivers
came with 6 meter capability, and suddenly everyone was on the band,
openings were easier to find, and very few openings have been overlooked
since.  So that's the way it is today.   6M is great fun .. But if you
want to enjoy ham radio on a daily or weekly basis year-round, you
really need to allocate time to the other HF bands.

Don, N5LZ   

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Brown
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2014 11:01 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6m..just my thoughts


My interest in 6M goes back to that memorable solar cycle around 1958, 
when from my QTH in WV I worked ZS in the morning, W6, in the afternoon,

KH6 a bit later with a ground plane and 25W AM. As an active CW op on 
HF, I had great fun keying my 2E26 rig to work AU. 40 years later, I 
enjoyed 6M from Chicago, working about 240 grids over about 3 seasons 
with 100W and a pair of loops at 40 ft.  Since moving to NorCal in 2006,

I've been active on 6M again, and worked grid #300 from this QTH this 
summer.  My 6M activity is about 75% CW, but I also work SSB and Joe 
Taylor's WSJT modes.

Before I had a SteppIR Yagi here in CA, I made at least a dozen 
double-hop E-skip QSOs to the east coast and KH6 loading 100W into an 
80/40M fan dipole.  The SteppIR with the KPA500 is a nice step up, and 
I've got 12 countries confirmed, including VE, XE, KL7, KH6, ZL, VK, JA,

and a few S Pacific islands.

With that perspective, what you can work on 6M depends VERY strongly on 
where you live. Over the last 3-4 summers, there have been MANY, MANY 
openings to EU from east of the Mississippi River, a few that got 
farther west, and a handful to SoCal. I don't remember a single opening 
to EU from NorCal in the 7 years I've lived here. Those east of the MS 
river also get openings into the Caribbean and South America that we 
don't get here.  Those openings to KL7, VK, ZL, and the S Pacific have 
happened no more than a half dozen times since I've lived here, they 
tend to be quite short, and I've been on the air for them twice.

This is the best place I've found to monitor 6M propagation and
activity.

http://www.dxmaps.com/spots/map.php?Frec=50&Map=NA

WSJT modes are coordinated on sites like 
http://www.on4kst.com/chat/start.php   and 
http://www.pingjockey.net/cgi-bin/pingtalk

73, Jim K9YC

On 2/26/2014 2:09 PM, Jeff Stai wrote:
> True, but when I lived in so cal I managed to work most of SA and the 
> pacific rim as well as 48 states (missed AR and NJ) with that three 
> element. Not that forlorn. 73 jeff wk6i
>
> On Wednesday, February 26, 2014, Keith Heimbold  
> wrote:
>
>> >Not to rain on the folks in Europe or eastern US or even Texas but 
>> >6m is a totally different animal out west.  It is still super fun 
>> >but we get about 1/4 or less of the openings of these other regions.

>> >So yes put up a 3 element antenna but don't expect to even come 
>> >close to those DX numbers. Still it is very enjoyable when the band 
>> >opens, but go into this with eyes wide open.
>> >

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Re: [Elecraft] 6m......just my thoughts

[Jim Brown]

My interest in 6M goes back to that memorable solar cycle around 1958, 
when from my QTH in WV I worked ZS in the morning, W6, in the afternoon, 
KH6 a bit later with a ground plane and 25W AM. As an active CW op on 
HF, I had great fun keying my 2E26 rig to work AU. 40 years later, I 
enjoyed 6M from Chicago, working about 240 grids over about 3 seasons 
with 100W and a pair of loops at 40 ft.  Since moving to NorCal in 2006, 
I've been active on 6M again, and worked grid #300 from this QTH this 
summer.  My 6M activity is about 75% CW, but I also work SSB and Joe 
Taylor's WSJT modes.


Before I had a SteppIR Yagi here in CA, I made at least a dozen 
double-hop E-skip QSOs to the east coast and KH6 loading 100W into an 
80/40M fan dipole.  The SteppIR with the KPA500 is a nice step up, and 
I've got 12 countries confirmed, including VE, XE, KL7, KH6, ZL, VK, JA, 
and a few S Pacific islands.


With that perspective, what you can work on 6M depends VERY strongly on 
where you live. Over the last 3-4 summers, there have been MANY, MANY 
openings to EU from east of the Mississippi River, a few that got 
farther west, and a handful to SoCal. I don't remember a single opening 
to EU from NorCal in the 7 years I've lived here. Those east of the MS 
river also get openings into the Caribbean and South America that we 
don't get here.  Those openings to KL7, VK, ZL, and the S Pacific have 
happened no more than a half dozen times since I've lived here, they 
tend to be quite short, and I've been on the air for them twice.


This is the best place I've found to monitor 6M propagation and activity.

http://www.dxmaps.com/spots/map.php?Frec=50&Map=NA

WSJT modes are coordinated on sites like 
http://www.on4kst.com/chat/start.php   and 
http://www.pingjockey.net/cgi-bin/pingtalk


73, Jim K9YC

On 2/26/2014 2:09 PM, Jeff Stai wrote:

True, but when I lived in so cal I managed to work most of SA and the
pacific rim as well as 48 states (missed AR and NJ) with that three
element. Not that forlorn. 73 jeff wk6i

On Wednesday, February 26, 2014, Keith Heimbold  wrote:


>Not to rain on the folks in Europe or eastern US or even Texas but 6m is a
>totally different animal out west.  It is still super fun but we get about
>1/4 or less of the openings of these other regions. So yes put up a 3
>element antenna but don't expect to even come close to those DX numbers.
>Still it is very enjoyable when the band opens, but go into this with eyes
>wide open.
>


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Re: [Elecraft] 6m......just my thoughts

[Keith Heimbold]

To better put this in perspective out of the entire San Diego DX club we have 
only one member who has 6m DXCC and it has taken him many solar cycles to do 
it.  And it was all from the west coast. The SDDXC is a pretty large club too. 
Last I looked we have a second member who is closing in on it.  The rest of us 
in the top 20 for the band are in the teens, twenties and thirties.

Keith
AK6ZZ

Sent from my iPhone please excuse typos

> On Feb 26, 2014, at 2:09 PM, "Jeff Stai"  wrote:
> 
> True, but when I lived in so cal I managed to work most of SA and the pacific 
> rim as well as 48 states (missed AR and NJ) with that three element. Not that 
> forlorn. 73 jeff wk6i
> 
>> On Wednesday, February 26, 2014, Keith Heimbold  wrote:
>> Not to rain on the folks in Europe or eastern US or even Texas but 6m is a 
>> totally different animal out west.  It is still super fun but we get about 
>> 1/4 or less of the openings of these other regions. So yes put up a 3 
>> element antenna but don't expect to even come close to those DX numbers. 
>> Still it is very enjoyable when the band opens, but go into this with eyes 
>> wide open.
>> 
>> Keith
>> AK6ZZ
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone please excuse typos
>> 
>> > On Feb 26, 2014, at 1:35 PM, "r miles"  wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Being an HF DXer I'm down to one. 6 yr.s ago I'd tried 6m. A friend said 
>> > load my TA 33 since I had no 6m antenna. Well I wrkd 25 countries with 
>> > 100w & an HF tribander.Then I put up a 3 ele 6m & wrkd abt 60 countries. 
>> > I've since put up a 5 ele 6m yagi with a larger one gg up this Spring. One 
>> > of the reasons I got a KPA500 was 6m. I'm at 90 countries now from TN.
>> >
>> > The band is open from late March  thru August with  quick  openings 
>> > anytime. Last week there were openings to KH6 & SA  from Ca to Wa. The 
>> > Gulf Coast guys are hearing SA most evenings now. The last two Winters 
>> > we've had openings[ only  20-30 min.s] to the S Pacific. Mostly CW but 
>> > sometimes SSB too.
>> >
>> > Build a little 3 ele 6m yagi. It'll only be a 6' boom. Smaller than TV 
>> > antennas. 6m is like 10m. When it's open antennas don't matter that much.
>> >
>> > I've wrkd Japan 100s of times on HF  but it was a rush to wrk Japan on 6m 
>> > 
>> >
>> > In the QRN times of Summer 6m offers a gud break from HF.
>> >
>> > K9IL
>> > __
>> > Elecraft mailing list
>> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> >
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Jeff Stai ~ wk6i.j...@gmail.com
> Twisted Oak Winery ~ http://www.twistedoak.com/
> Facebook ~ http://www.facebook.com/twistedoak
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Re: [Elecraft] 6m......just my thoughts

[Jeff Stai]

True, but when I lived in so cal I managed to work most of SA and the
pacific rim as well as 48 states (missed AR and NJ) with that three
element. Not that forlorn. 73 jeff wk6i

On Wednesday, February 26, 2014, Keith Heimbold  wrote:

> Not to rain on the folks in Europe or eastern US or even Texas but 6m is a
> totally different animal out west.  It is still super fun but we get about
> 1/4 or less of the openings of these other regions. So yes put up a 3
> element antenna but don't expect to even come close to those DX numbers.
> Still it is very enjoyable when the band opens, but go into this with eyes
> wide open.
>
> Keith
> AK6ZZ
>
> Sent from my iPhone please excuse typos
>
> > On Feb 26, 2014, at 1:35 PM, "r miles" 
> > >
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Being an HF DXer I'm down to one. 6 yr.s ago I'd tried 6m. A friend said
> load my TA 33 since I had no 6m antenna. Well I wrkd 25 countries with 100w
> & an HF tribander.Then I put up a 3 ele 6m & wrkd abt 60 countries. I've
> since put up a 5 ele 6m yagi with a larger one gg up this Spring. One of
> the reasons I got a KPA500 was 6m. I'm at 90 countries now from TN.
> >
> > The band is open from late March  thru August with  quick  openings
> anytime. Last week there were openings to KH6 & SA  from Ca to Wa. The Gulf
> Coast guys are hearing SA most evenings now. The last two Winters we've had
> openings[ only  20-30 min.s] to the S Pacific. Mostly CW but sometimes SSB
> too.
> >
> > Build a little 3 ele 6m yagi. It'll only be a 6' boom. Smaller than TV
> antennas. 6m is like 10m. When it's open antennas don't matter that much.
> >
> > I've wrkd Japan 100s of times on HF  but it was a rush to wrk Japan on
> 6m 
> >
> > In the QRN times of Summer 6m offers a gud break from HF.
> >
> > K9IL
> > __
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
> >
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-- 
Jeff Stai ~ wk6i.j...@gmail.com
Twisted Oak Winery ~ http://www.twistedoak.com/
Facebook ~ http://www.facebook.com/twistedoak
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Re: [Elecraft] 6m......just my thoughts

[Keith Heimbold]

Not to rain on the folks in Europe or eastern US or even Texas but 6m is a 
totally different animal out west.  It is still super fun but we get about 1/4 
or less of the openings of these other regions. So yes put up a 3 element 
antenna but don't expect to even come close to those DX numbers. Still it is 
very enjoyable when the band opens, but go into this with eyes wide open. 

Keith
AK6ZZ

Sent from my iPhone please excuse typos

> On Feb 26, 2014, at 1:35 PM, "r miles"  wrote:
> 
> 
> Being an HF DXer I'm down to one. 6 yr.s ago I'd tried 6m. A friend said load 
> my TA 33 since I had no 6m antenna. Well I wrkd 25 countries with 100w & an 
> HF tribander.Then I put up a 3 ele 6m & wrkd abt 60 countries. I've since put 
> up a 5 ele 6m yagi with a larger one gg up this Spring. One of the reasons I 
> got a KPA500 was 6m. I'm at 90 countries now from TN.
> 
> The band is open from late March  thru August with  quick  openings anytime. 
> Last week there were openings to KH6 & SA  from Ca to Wa. The Gulf Coast guys 
> are hearing SA most evenings now. The last two Winters we've had openings[ 
> only  20-30 min.s] to the S Pacific. Mostly CW but sometimes SSB too.
> 
> Build a little 3 ele 6m yagi. It'll only be a 6' boom. Smaller than TV 
> antennas. 6m is like 10m. When it's open antennas don't matter that much.
> 
> I've wrkd Japan 100s of times on HF  but it was a rush to wrk Japan on 6m 
> 
> 
> In the QRN times of Summer 6m offers a gud break from HF.
> 
> K9IL
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] 6m QRN on my K3

[Lance Collister, W7GJ]

I wish it were than easy ;-)  I can hear it fine and get a good bearing here at home 
with 4x9 element yagis, but I can't hear the noise at all with the dipole or vertical 
in the car.   I just have to hope that the intermittent noise is on when I drive out 
to the spots along the line where the noise is coming from  VY 73, Lance


On 5/25/2013 12:18 AM, Bill Frantz wrote:
Consider trying to triangulate it. Find the bearing from two locations and see 
where they cross on a map. Go to that area when it acts up again. Lather, rinse, 
repeat. :-)


The bearing from most any Yagi should help.

Cheers - Bill, AE6JV

On 5/24/13 at 11:16 AM, w...@q.com (Lance Collister, W7GJ) wrote:

Good luck to both of us!   I spent several hours out in the car this morning 
trying to track it down, but when I got home again, it was gone :-(   I could have 
driven right by the problem and never noticed it, if it was off at that particular 
time.  This is going to be a really tough one to locate!


---
Bill Frantz| "The only thing we have to   | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | fear is fear itself." - FDR  | 16345 Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | Inaugural address, 3/4/1933  | Los Gatos, CA 95032

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--
Lance Collister, W7GJ
(ex WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8, E51SIX, 3D2LR, 5W0GJ, E6M, TX5K)
P.O. Box 73
Frenchtown, MT   59834-0073
USA
TEL: (406) 626-5728
QTH: DN27ub
URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj
Windows Messenger: w...@hotmail.com
Skype: lanceW7GJ
2m DXCC #11/6m DXCC #815

Interested in 6m EME?  Ask me about subscribing to the Magic Band EME
email group, or just fill in the request box at the bottom of my web
page (above)!

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Re: [Elecraft] 6m QRN on my K3

[Bill Frantz]

Consider trying to triangulate it. Find the bearing from two 
locations and see where they cross on a map. Go to that area 
when it acts up again. Lather, rinse, repeat. :-)


The bearing from most any Yagi should help.

Cheers - Bill, AE6JV

On 5/24/13 at 11:16 AM, w...@q.com (Lance Collister, W7GJ) wrote:

Good luck to both of us!   I spent several hours out in the car 
this morning trying to track it down, but when I got home 
again, it was gone :-(   I could have driven right by the 
problem and never noticed it, if it was off at that particular 
time.  This is going to be a really tough one to locate!


---
Bill Frantz| "The only thing we have to   | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | fear is fear itself." - FDR  | 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | Inaugural address, 3/4/1933  | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] 6m QRN on my K3

[Lance Collister, W7GJ]

Good luck to both of us!   I spent several hours out in the car this morning trying 
to track it down, but when I got home again, it was gone :-(   I could have driven 
right by the problem and never noticed it, if it was off at that particular time.  
This is going to be a really tough one to locate!


By the way, I do have to say, my KX3 works great in the car and the NB is the best I 
have ever experienced in the car!  I kept turning off the car so I could listen for 
noise without the engine running.  The only noise source I found was at a medical 
clinic four miles away in the right direction, and then the NB on the KX3 did nothing 
to blank it.   I thought maybe I had found the pesky source, but there certainly is 
no conclusion at this stage.   I will head out on the road again the next time it 
acts up.


GL and VY 73, Lance


On 5/24/2013 4:39 PM, WM3M wrote:

Lance,
I have same thing here, but not all the time.
Mine is much worse when it is dry, when it has not rained in awhile, so I think it 
is power line noise.
It is worse on 6 meters.  I think mine is from either a close by power line 
transformer or power lines rubbing against tree limbs.

If you figure it out please let me know.  Mine sounds just like your recording.
Sorry to say nothing I have tried helps much, except rain.
Good luck.. 73
Emory  WM3M

-Original Message- From: Lance Collister, W7GJ
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 10:40 AM
To: Elecraft Mailing List
Subject: [Elecraft] 6m QRN on my K3

Recently, I have started having a really bad wide band noise problem in one 
direction
on 6m.   It comes and goes, but is on much of the time.  In the past, the IF 
noise
blanker in the K3 has worked well for me, but with this noise, even WID7 
setting only
knocks it down from S7 to S6.  Often the "NB" on the K3 blinks too...I am not 
sure
what that means.  The noise level becomes much less when I invoke the DSP NB, 
but I
don't like to use that because I am often trying to work weak signal digital 
modes,
and I can't have little bits and pieces of the spectrum pulled out.

Is there any way to install some custom NB algorithms into the K3, or does 
anybody
else have any suggestions?   I have put a sample of the noise on my website 
here:

http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj/W7GJnoise.wav

I hope to be able to track down the source with my KX3, but it is not always 
running
continuously.

MNI TNX and VY 73, Lance





--
Lance Collister, W7GJ
(ex WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8, E51SIX, 3D2LR, 5W0GJ, E6M, TX5K)
P.O. Box 73
Frenchtown, MT   59834-0073
USA
TEL: (406) 626-5728
QTH: DN27ub
URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj
Windows Messenger: w...@hotmail.com
Skype: lanceW7GJ
2m DXCC #11/6m DXCC #815

Interested in 6m EME?  Ask me about subscribing to the Magic Band EME
email group, or just fill in the request box at the bottom of my web
page (above)!

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Re: [Elecraft] 6m QRN on my K3

[K7WIA]

I hope they find a fix for it Lance,   I have the same sounding noise at my
QTH

EdK7WIA



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Re: [Elecraft] 6M on K3 (SAD)

[Bill K9YEQ]

I fired up the K3 for the recent Vhf contest.  I have the preamp installed.
I used the SmallIR at 3/4 wave with only 11 radials running 100 watts.  I
worked to east coast stations Q5 both ends.  SWR was 3.2:1 as I need to add
more radials.  It was a pleasure.

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of r miles
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 11:57 AM
To: elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Sad


You'd love a K3 on 6m. I've not gotten the pre amp yet but I hear well with
a  modest  short boom 5 el yagi. What I really love is the KPA500. 
Man that 500w on 6m is the difference. Not to the century mark yet just
89/88 but if 6m ever picks up this summer I hope to get closer. Been DXing
for 50 yr.s & as a CW OP it's the best RX I have used & I've used every
brand you could name and then some.

K9IL

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Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

[Rich - K1HTV]

Dave,
   The 6 Meter band can be VERY selective as to who is favored with the
propagation required to work DX. You must know to what area the DX is working.
Keep and eye on the 'www.vhfdx.net' website and its DX-Sherlock application to
see what regions are working each other.  If others in your region are working
DX and you are not hearing it, keep listening. Don't be surprised if suddenly
you begin to hear DX. Don't expect to just turn on your K3 and hear the DX that
others are working, although that does happen at times during a widespread
opening.

So, what does it take to work DX on 50 MHz? Well, I presently am using a
barefoot K3 and a yagi on my back porch, only 20 feet high. From my VA QTH
(FM18ap), in the direction of SE thru SW the yagi looks into the house. In all
other directions, including Europe and the West Coast the yagi look into 40 to
50 ft high trees. You would thing that with this antennas system I'd have a
tough time working DX.  Not so! Making QSOs is quite easy...when the band opens
up. Since July 1, over 270 QSOs have been entered into the K1HTV log book,
almost half of them on CW. 

Since the first of June, 44 DX countries have been worked, 27 of them since July
1st. Countries worked on 6 Meters with the low yagi and K3 include 9A, 9H, 9Y,
C5, C6, CN, CO, CT, CT3,CU, E7, EA, EA6, EA8, EI, F, FG, FM, FS, G, GD, GJ, HA,
HI, I, J3, J6, J8, KP2, KP4, LA, OX, P4, PJ2, S5, TF, V4, VE, VP2M, VP5, VP9, W,
XE and YN.

You will find that being up in FN42 you should be able to work much more Europe
DX than down here in VA, and probably the same amount of DX to the south. Just
be patient. If you are at you K3 when the band opens up there you'll soon be
entering DX QSOs into the N1IX log.

Have fun with your K3 on the magic Band!

73,
Rich - K1HTV
http:www.k1htv.us

= = =


Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 09:53:44 -0400
From: "David leDuc" 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW
To: 
Message-ID: <001a01cb1d12$a6627bc0$f32773...@com>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="us-ascii"

I know this is not a 6 meter discussion group but I do have a K3.
I am hearing a lot of people on 6 meters working DX which I cannot hear,
also calling CQDX. I am wondering what kind of antennas you are using? I am
using a 3 element SteppIr and am in  FN42

Dave N1IX

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Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

[Wes Stewart]

During the 2009 ARRL Field Day I was working from home on emergency power.  I 
had cobbled together a 6-meter preamp for the K3 and decided to take a listen.  
I don't have a 6-meter antenna so I was using my paralleled wire 40-80 meter 
inverted V with almost 200' of RG214.

Two of the local clubs do FD from the cool pines on a 9,000+ feet ASL mountain 
NE of the Tucson valley.  One of them was hogging 50.125 on SSB and needless to 
say was quite strong and quite broad. I worked a few of the louder Es stations 
that were coming through and then tuned down below the loudmouth and heard a 
weak CQ on CW.  It was JL8GFB.  So I called and worked him.

An hour and ten minutes later, I worked JA7WSZ.  So the band was open to JA for 
over an hour and a lot of people missed it because they were on SSB and not 
tuning.

Wes  N7WS

--- On Tue, 7/6/10, Jim Brown  wrote:

6M truly is a band that allows you to have a lot of fun with a modest 
antenna when it's open. That's why it's called the magic band. 

73, Jim K9YC



  
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Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

[Jim Brown]

On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 09:53:44 -0400, David leDuc wrote:

> I am wondering what kind of antennas you are using? I am
>using a 3 element SteppIr and am in  FN42

About a year ago, I put a 3-el SteppIR with 6M element on a tower. 
Before that I worked a lot of 6M DX with my K3 by loading my 40M 
dipole. I made at least a half dozen QSOs from my QTH near San 
Francisco to the east coast, and worked several KH6. The SteppIR, of 
course, works better. :) 

6M truly is a band that allows you to have a lot of fun with a modest 
antenna when it's open. That's why it's called the magic band. 

73, Jim K9YC



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Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

[Ken Roberson]

Dave,

Antenna here is M2 5 ele 18 ft boom @ 50 ft, feedline is
LMR-600 ( 1 DB loss per 100 FT ) maybe less at 50mhz.
We had a few nice opening here in Oklahoma and I have
worked 25 DXCC and abt 13 are new .
Most were on CW running about 400 Watts.
The K3 and the preamp make a nice 6m rig.
73 Good dxing 
Ken K5DNL

-

--- On Tue, 7/6/10, David leDuc  wrote:

> From: David leDuc 
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 8:53 AM
> I know this is not a 6 meter
> discussion group but I do have a K3.
> I am hearing a lot of people on 6 meters working DX which I
> cannot hear,
> also calling CQDX. I am wondering what kind of antennas you
> are using? I am
> using a 3 element SteppIr and am in  FN42
> 
> Dave N1IX
> 
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

[David leDuc]

I know this is not a 6 meter discussion group but I do have a K3.
I am hearing a lot of people on 6 meters working DX which I cannot hear,
also calling CQDX. I am wondering what kind of antennas you are using? I am
using a 3 element SteppIr and am in  FN42

Dave N1IX

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Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

[N2TK, Tony]

Hi Sandy,
Sometime it is a courtesy when someone drops their call once when you send
"test" or "V's" to let you know that they hear you in case you are wondering
if you are transmitting or getting out. Sometimes they drop their call once
and also send their state so that you know about the propagation. Sometimes
they drop their call once in case you want a QSO or are just testing.  

Not sure I follow what is the problem with someone sending their call once?
If someone is purposely calling you and signals are good, why repeat the
call more than once? 

I enjoy both rag-chewing and contesting. Sometimes the band conditions don't
allow rag-chewing. At the moment I am trying to work FP on 6M. With the QSB
I am getting only snippets of his call. I would be happy just to get a
signal report exchange.

73,
N2TK, Tony



-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Sandy
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 5:14 PM
To: WILLIS COOKE; Jim Brown; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

This phenomenon is not restricted to 6 meters!  The same thing happens on HF

as well: people looking for "club" numbers, grid squares, counties,etc., 
etc.  The whole "contest" mentality has corrupted all the "old" and "polite"

methods of establishing a QSO when there are no contests at all!  Also the 
"Elmers" of today, aided and abetted by the ARRL, have all but completely 
"eliminated" the normal calling protocols of yesteryear.  It isn't at all 
"unusual" to tune up and send a few "V's"  and have someone just drop their 
callsign on you just ONCE!  As I now an "old timer" in age and amateur 
radio, I "wonder" when this happens.  Is this chap calling me?  Is he just 
testing?  Even if you send "QRZ? de W5TVW K" you may just get a callsign 
sent ONCE!  Also people sending: "DE W4ABC" instead of calling "CQ". 
"Newer" QRPers answering a CQ call just sending their callsign just ONCE! 
There isn't that "all important" OPERATING section still published in the 
"Handbook"!  Guess the folks at ARRL thought they could make a few extra 
bucks by publishing a special book dealing with that subject that obviously 
everyone ISN"T buying!
I enjoy contests on CW doing QRP and usually these are limited to a small 
segment of the CW sub-band, and they don't seem to be on every weekend.  6 
meters used to be a  really "fun" band back in the "AM" phone days, but I 
didn't figure it would be degraded to nothing but "hello, goodbye" type 
contacts.

Sorry for this, guess I sound like a grouchy "old fart" but where has all 
the politeness gone?

73,

Sandy W5TVW

- Original Message - 
From: "WILLIS COOKE" 
To: "Jim Brown" ; 
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW


I don't feel that way at all. A contact in which only grids are exchanged 
leaves me with little satisfaction at all. I at least like to exchange names

and QTH. I get enough of the quicky QSOs with contests. I don't need more on

six meters or digital contacts. I know I am out of step with the avant 
guarde, but I don't enjoy six meters much because of these quick exchanges.
Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
K5EWJ





From: Jim Brown 
To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
Sent: Mon, July 5, 2010 10:41:55 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] 6M CW

On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 08:29:08 -0700 (PDT), Ken McGuire wrote:

>I was frustrated at how slow the chats were on SSB (FM was even worse) -
>it seemed like they were wasting a perfectly good band opening ragchewing

Yep. Same here. Often, an opening on any given path may be there only long
enough to exchange the grid and report. It's quite frustrating to wait to
call a station that was S9, then S7, then S5, then S3, then fumes, while
the time is filled with innanity.

>When I turned down to the CW portion of the band, it almost sounded like
>a CW contest weekend.

Yes. I've gotten to the point that I spend most of my 6M efforts on CW,
only tuning up to the SSB portion of the band when nothing is happening on
CW. And thanks in part to the proliferation of K3s, there is a lot more CW
activity than there was only 5 years ago.

73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

>Even if you send "QRZ? de W5TVW K" you may just get a callsign
>sent ONCE!

This is standard contesting procedure.  Sending your call more than
once in clear conditions could be wasting time for those who copy CW
well.  And in a pile up sending your call the second time could be
over the top of the DX and interfering with the DX sending only once
the call of the station he actually copied.  This tends to make the
case that sending once is more polite if folks are waiting. Crisp one
by one by one by one, etc, clears pileups quicker if everyone sends
once to good operators in good conditions.

While you may have your point, reversing the austere frugality of a
single call reply habit when the distant station has no way of knowing
your state of mine, may simply be out of reach as a social goal.  Time
marches on and customs change.  And I can only imagine the number of
hams who are NOT looking to an ARRL publication to direct ham
etiquette in day-to-day communications, however positive or negative
one may feel about the ARRL.

What's happening on 6m is really very interesting.  All the more so
because my already paid for K3 has 6m on it that isn't a joke.  And
because I decided to run 1 1/4 inch hardline out to and up the tower,
which I can switch between the big tribander and 6 and 2.

For long time VHF afficionados, this infusion of new activity from
previously HF confined hams has to be a lot of fun.

73, Guy.
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Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

[John Ragle]

 When I started ham radio, there were just two modes in use: CW and 
AM phone. RTTY certainly existed commercially, but I can not recall 
anyone mentioning that mode in those long-ago times. Moreover, 
transceivers didn't exist...one had a transmitter, a receiver, and an 
antenna change-over relay. QSK didn't exist. The "bug" was around, and 
some operators had a marvelous "banana-boat" swing. Few operators had 
rotatable yagis. The licensing structure demanded at least 13 wpm 
proficiency.

 Nowadays things are very different. [An attempt to survey the hobby 
is given in: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio.] This list 
focuses on a particular kind of hardware...a self-contained, 10 to 100 
watt transceiver with full qsk on cw, as well as an astonishing range of 
other capabilities. The personal computer has appeared on the scene, 
making many new digital modes accessible. CW and WSJT have become the 
prime weak signal modes, with QSK CW providing very fast, 
highly-efficient, turn-around type QSOs. A single dit or two during a CQ 
establishes a link. On HF, PSK or RTTY provide very leisurely media for 
chatting -- one's attention can wander a bit, perhaps even to sipping 
coffee (tea for the Brits). When conditions are good enough, SSB works 
well for casual talk or for hello-goodbye exchanges.

 All this obtains from rigs like the K3 or a few others, together 
with the PC. Virtually unlimited frequency mobility, band coverage, 
stability, full break-in, digital modes, and so forth are available. 
There are still lids and careless operators. People still rag-chew on 
the calling frequencies. Recently I waited patiently for 20 minutes 
hoping a pair of W7 stations in western Washington on 6 meters would 
take a break in their rag-chew, while they faded slowly in to S9 
strength and slowly out to the noise level here in FN32. ...but, by and 
large, operating techniques have changed to fit the available media. I 
think this is quite appropriate, and if someone wants to do a 
smash-and-grab QSO, I am content. When conditions are changing rapidly, 
this seems entirely reasonable. I hold against a philosophy that says 
"be reasonable, do it MY way!"

John Ragle-- W1ZI
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Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

[GD0TEP]

This thread has been quite interesting

I respect the station that can sit and rag chew on CW, I've tried it on one
of the HF bands, and found it very demanding on the brain.

On 6m... If the band was open with more than one hop of SpE, I'll be chasing
new grid squares, or DXCC countries. I do it on single hop SpE as well, but
with more than one hop available, some real DX might also be available..

I think a lot of 'DXers' on 6m would be upset to hear a W7 on the band and
not be able to have a quick QSO... I sure would be...

That doesn't mean people can't be polite... I've heard and worked what I
consider to be good DX (more than one hop SpE) and the DX station insisted
on names as well as report... And, as he had a pile up, that's what he got
with every QSO... now that's not unfair, it's just what the 'DX' wanted.

In the large RSGB/IARU contest, even with the band going 'ding dong' I
always try to pass over GM or GA on each QSO... does this slow the rate
down...? maybe has it damaged to score? I don't think so, and we've won
the contest 10 times in the last 13 years...

Yesterdays DX from here was C56E, I've a short video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrCvY4OjZJ4

At the end of the day, it's a hobby... have fun, do what you enjoy... but
remember the rest of us out there... :-)

73,
Andy
http://gd0tep.com


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Brett Howard
Sent: 06 July 2010 06:12
To: Sandy
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

Heck I guess I'll stop doing that...  I've just kinda learned from listening
to the bands.  I'm finally getting my speed up fast enough that actually
carrying on a QSO is possible.  At 8WPM your RST, Name, QTH, RIG and ANT is
a 30 to 40 minute conversation.  ;)  However at 13WPM I've been able to
actually have conversations with people about the K3 find out that they've
recently retired and what they used to do and well all sorts of fun stuff...
(I'm referring to a 40 minute conversation that I had on 40 last night...)  

Then heck I ran into a guy the other day who was only about 20 minutes bike
ride from here.  We ended up having a 1.6 hour or so QSO.  Both of our
brains were going to mush by the end as we were both working hard for it but
hey its fun!

I'm by no means an old salt at the age of 29 but I do try to be polite and
do find it fun to get into the longer QSO's via CW.  I often find that SSB
bores me for casual operating but I do find SSB interesting for contests.

But anyway just wanted to let you know that your post has hit home with
someone and I'll start sending my call a few times when answering a CQ...  I
usually figure that I want to try and get in there quick before their auto
repeat kicks in  Then if they need a fill we can always take care of
that later.  Guess I've been being rude all this time and had no idea.

Sorry...

~Brett (N7MG)

On Mon, 2010-07-05 at 16:13 -0500, Sandy wrote:
> This phenomenon is not restricted to 6 meters!  The same thing happens 
> on HF as well: people looking for "club" numbers, grid squares, 
> counties,etc., etc.  The whole "contest" mentality has corrupted all the
"old" and "polite"
> methods of establishing a QSO when there are no contests at all!  Also 
> the "Elmers" of today, aided and abetted by the ARRL, have all but 
> completely "eliminated" the normal calling protocols of yesteryear.  
> It isn't at all "unusual" to tune up and send a few "V's"  and have 
> someone just drop their callsign on you just ONCE!  As I now an "old 
> timer" in age and amateur radio, I "wonder" when this happens.  Is 
> this chap calling me?  Is he just testing?  Even if you send "QRZ? de 
> W5TVW K" you may just get a callsign sent ONCE!  Also people sending: "DE
W4ABC" instead of calling "CQ".
> "Newer" QRPers answering a CQ call just sending their callsign just ONCE! 
> There isn't that "all important" OPERATING section still published in 
> the "Handbook"!  Guess the folks at ARRL thought they could make a few 
> extra bucks by publishing a special book dealing with that subject 
> that obviously everyone ISN"T buying!
> I enjoy contests on CW doing QRP and usually these are limited to a 
> small segment of the CW sub-band, and they don't seem to be on every 
> weekend.  6 meters used to be a  really "fun" band back in the "AM" 
> phone days, but I didn't figure it would be degraded to nothing but 
> "hello, goodbye" type contacts.
> 
> Sorry for this, guess I sound like a grouchy "old fa

Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

[Brett Howard]

Heck I guess I'll stop doing that...  I've just kinda learned from
listening to the bands.  I'm finally getting my speed up fast enough
that actually carrying on a QSO is possible.  At 8WPM your RST, Name,
QTH, RIG and ANT is a 30 to 40 minute conversation.  ;)  However at
13WPM I've been able to actually have conversations with people about
the K3 find out that they've recently retired and what they used to do
and well all sorts of fun stuff... (I'm referring to a 40 minute
conversation that I had on 40 last night...)  

Then heck I ran into a guy the other day who was only about 20 minutes
bike ride from here.  We ended up having a 1.6 hour or so QSO.  Both of
our brains were going to mush by the end as we were both working hard
for it but hey its fun!

I'm by no means an old salt at the age of 29 but I do try to be polite
and do find it fun to get into the longer QSO's via CW.  I often find
that SSB bores me for casual operating but I do find SSB interesting for
contests.

But anyway just wanted to let you know that your post has hit home with
someone and I'll start sending my call a few times when answering a
CQ...  I usually figure that I want to try and get in there quick before
their auto repeat kicks in  Then if they need a fill we can always
take care of that later.  Guess I've been being rude all this time and
had no idea.

Sorry...

~Brett (N7MG)

On Mon, 2010-07-05 at 16:13 -0500, Sandy wrote:
> This phenomenon is not restricted to 6 meters!  The same thing happens on HF 
> as well: people looking for "club" numbers, grid squares, counties,etc., 
> etc.  The whole "contest" mentality has corrupted all the "old" and "polite" 
> methods of establishing a QSO when there are no contests at all!  Also the 
> "Elmers" of today, aided and abetted by the ARRL, have all but completely 
> "eliminated" the normal calling protocols of yesteryear.  It isn't at all 
> "unusual" to tune up and send a few "V's"  and have someone just drop their 
> callsign on you just ONCE!  As I now an "old timer" in age and amateur 
> radio, I "wonder" when this happens.  Is this chap calling me?  Is he just 
> testing?  Even if you send "QRZ? de W5TVW K" you may just get a callsign 
> sent ONCE!  Also people sending: "DE W4ABC" instead of calling "CQ". 
> "Newer" QRPers answering a CQ call just sending their callsign just ONCE! 
> There isn't that "all important" OPERATING section still published in the 
> "Handbook"!  Guess the folks at ARRL thought they could make a few extra 
> bucks by publishing a special book dealing with that subject that obviously 
> everyone ISN"T buying!
> I enjoy contests on CW doing QRP and usually these are limited to a small 
> segment of the CW sub-band, and they don't seem to be on every weekend.  6 
> meters used to be a  really "fun" band back in the "AM" phone days, but I 
> didn't figure it would be degraded to nothing but "hello, goodbye" type 
> contacts.
> 
> Sorry for this, guess I sound like a grouchy "old fart" but where has all 
> the politeness gone?
> 
> 73,
> 
> Sandy W5TVW
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "WILLIS COOKE" 
> To: "Jim Brown" ; 
> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 2:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW
> 
> 
> I don't feel that way at all. A contact in which only grids are exchanged 
> leaves me with little satisfaction at all. I at least like to exchange names 
> and QTH. I get enough of the quicky QSOs with contests. I don't need more on 
> six meters or digital contacts. I know I am out of step with the avant 
> guarde, but I don't enjoy six meters much because of these quick exchanges.
> Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
> K5EWJ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Jim Brown 
> To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
> Sent: Mon, July 5, 2010 10:41:55 AM
> Subject: [Elecraft] 6M CW
> 
> On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 08:29:08 -0700 (PDT), Ken McGuire wrote:
> 
> >I was frustrated at how slow the chats were on SSB (FM was even worse) -
> >it seemed like they were wasting a perfectly good band opening ragchewing
> 
> Yep. Same here. Often, an opening on any given path may be there only long
> enough to exchange the grid and report. It's quite frustrating to wait to
> call a station that was S9, then S7, then S5, then S3, then fumes, while
> the time is filled with innanity.
> 
> >When I turned down to the CW portion of the band, it almost sounded like
> >a CW contest weekend.
> 
> Yes. I've gotten to the point that

Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

[Edward R Cole]

Comparing 6m to 17m is not very fair.  My impression of 17m is its an 
extension of 20m in nature and use.

Some regard 6m is our lowest VHF band; others as the highest HF 
band.  IMO it is neither.  I find line-of-sight propagation quite 
inferior to 2m and even 70cm.  As a band with ionospheric effects 
they are so rare that it hardly qualifies as a propagation mode (Of 
course you would have to withstand 355 days of no propagation to the 
ten or less that we get up here in Alaska to appreciate my comment).

So ... when the band opens, "everyone" wants to work DX, and that is 
"me".  So I get a back-to-back string of QSO's from 20-30 stations in 
CA.  I worked CA on the first contact so after the band closes, I 
have worked one state.  Or 35 JA stations call; same result one 
country worked.  Would I enjoy exchanging a few more items other than 
call, name, RST and grid?  Not going to happen because I am DX.

Rag chews on 6m are with fellow Alaskans over a 30-mile radius when 
the band is closed.

So six meters is - short and fast!  If you are looking for a rag chew 
go down in freq to HF or up to 2m.  If you want 24-hour DX, don't 
expect it on 6m.  6m is days of boredom interrupted by minutes 
chaos.  It is what it is.  And that is why we love it - and hate it.

Oh, well I usually don't have to wait for a station to call me - so 
that is something.


73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
==
BP40IQ   500 KHz - 10-GHz   www.kl7uw.com
EME: 144-600w, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-fall 2010
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@hotmail.com
==

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Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

[Jim Brown]

On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 11:26:40 -0700, David Yarnes wrote:

> However, I find myself 
>on both sides of the fence.  Sometimes I get antsy wanting 
>to work a particular grid square, but other times I get into 
>a longer exchange

First, there's no fence. Do what you wanna. :) But do what makes 
sense in the context of conditions. When 6M is open, conditions can 
be WILDLY variable, and ragchewing with a station who might not be 
there in 30 seconds is a pretty dumb idea. If you want to rag chew, 
do it with someone who is NOT subject to rapid fading, or on a band 
that is better suited to it. 

Second, there are MANY ways to enjoy ham radio. Some of my ham 
friends only enjoy building stations, or writing software, or 
building equipment, or fixing equipment, or teaching new hams. 
Others enjoy DXing, or collecting counties, or states, or whatever. 
Others enjoy contesting. Or rag chewing. 

One thing that turns me on is seeing my station working well in 
challenging situations, like 160M DX, and 6M grids. I like 
contesting for the same reason. Different strokes for different 
folks. Do what YOU wanna, but don't put down those who wanna do 
something different, and whatever side of the hobby you pursue, be 
a good neighbor! 

73, Jim K9YC



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Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

[ussv dharma]

I work from various dx locationsI DO NOT, AND WILL NOT  give the "wham bam 
thank you mam" type of qso.  I talk with the other stationwhat, you don't 
like it...well, you spend all the money to get to dx spots and then you can do 
as you like.

susanthe cranky old lady


If you don't change direction you WILL arrive exactly where you're 
headed!! Susan Meckley, Skipper W7KFI-mm  AFA9SM USSV 
DHARMA 


--- On Mon, 7/5/10, WILLIS COOKE  wrote:

> From: WILLIS COOKE 
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW
> To: "Jim Brown" , "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
> 
> Date: Monday, July 5, 2010, 9:29 AM
> I don't feel that way at all.  A
> contact in which only grids are exchanged leaves me with
> little satisfaction at all.  I at least like
> to exchange names and QTH.  I get enough of the quicky
> QSOs with contests.  I don't need more on six meters or
> digital contacts.  I know I am out of step with the avant
> guarde, but I don't enjoy six meters much because of  these
> quick exchanges.
>  Willis 'Cookie' Cooke 
> K5EWJ 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Jim Brown 
> To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net"
> 
> Sent: Mon, July 5, 2010 10:41:55 AM
> Subject: [Elecraft] 6M CW
> 
> On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 08:29:08 -0700 (PDT), Ken McGuire
> wrote:
> 
> >I was frustrated at how slow the chats were on SSB (FM
> was even worse) -
> >it seemed like they were wasting a perfectly good band
> opening ragchewing
> 
> Yep. Same here. Often, an opening on any given path may be
> there only long 
> enough to exchange the grid and report. It's quite
> frustrating to wait to 
> call a station that was S9, then S7, then S5, then S3, then
> fumes, while 
> the time is filled with innanity. 
> 
> >When I turned down to the CW portion of the band, it
> almost sounded like
> >a CW contest weekend.
> 
> Yes. I've gotten to the point that I spend most of my 6M
> efforts on CW, 
> only tuning up to the SSB portion of the band when nothing
> is happening on 
> CW. And thanks in part to the proliferation of K3s, there
> is a lot more CW 
> activity than there was only 5 years ago.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

[Lee Buller]

The issue here is "Awards."  Working grids, states and countries on 6 meters.  
It is my feeling that is what makes QSOs so quick on 6 meters, or conducted in 
"contest mode."  Now, I am not an long time 6 meter 
operator (in fact, I've been on the band since July 1, 2010) but I have 
been able to work about 250 people since.  I operated contest style on 
SSB59/EM18.  Why?  Trying to gather in as many grids squares as 
possibleandas many states as possible in the shortest amount of 
time (because of the "rare" opening on 6 meters) for AWARDS! 

Now, I had a few short rag chewspeople I knew and some I did not...but 
for the most part...I was working people as fast as possible for "award 
points."  WAS, VUCC and DXCC.

On a K3 Note  The radio performed flawlessly on both CW and SSB without the 
pre-amp.

Lee - K0WA



 Ham Radio Operators:  Kansas QSO Party is August 28-29, 2010.  See 
www.ksqsoparty.org for details

In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply.  If you don't 
have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it.  If you can't find 
any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense.  Is 
Common Sense divine?

Common Sense is the image of the Creator expressing revealed truth in my mind. 
-  J. Wolf
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Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

[Sandy]

This phenomenon is not restricted to 6 meters!  The same thing happens on HF 
as well: people looking for "club" numbers, grid squares, counties,etc., 
etc.  The whole "contest" mentality has corrupted all the "old" and "polite" 
methods of establishing a QSO when there are no contests at all!  Also the 
"Elmers" of today, aided and abetted by the ARRL, have all but completely 
"eliminated" the normal calling protocols of yesteryear.  It isn't at all 
"unusual" to tune up and send a few "V's"  and have someone just drop their 
callsign on you just ONCE!  As I now an "old timer" in age and amateur 
radio, I "wonder" when this happens.  Is this chap calling me?  Is he just 
testing?  Even if you send "QRZ? de W5TVW K" you may just get a callsign 
sent ONCE!  Also people sending: "DE W4ABC" instead of calling "CQ". 
"Newer" QRPers answering a CQ call just sending their callsign just ONCE! 
There isn't that "all important" OPERATING section still published in the 
"Handbook"!  Guess the folks at ARRL thought they could make a few extra 
bucks by publishing a special book dealing with that subject that obviously 
everyone ISN"T buying!
I enjoy contests on CW doing QRP and usually these are limited to a small 
segment of the CW sub-band, and they don't seem to be on every weekend.  6 
meters used to be a  really "fun" band back in the "AM" phone days, but I 
didn't figure it would be degraded to nothing but "hello, goodbye" type 
contacts.

Sorry for this, guess I sound like a grouchy "old fart" but where has all 
the politeness gone?

73,

Sandy W5TVW

- Original Message - 
From: "WILLIS COOKE" 
To: "Jim Brown" ; 
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW


I don't feel that way at all. A contact in which only grids are exchanged 
leaves me with little satisfaction at all. I at least like to exchange names 
and QTH. I get enough of the quicky QSOs with contests. I don't need more on 
six meters or digital contacts. I know I am out of step with the avant 
guarde, but I don't enjoy six meters much because of these quick exchanges.
Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
K5EWJ





From: Jim Brown 
To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
Sent: Mon, July 5, 2010 10:41:55 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] 6M CW

On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 08:29:08 -0700 (PDT), Ken McGuire wrote:

>I was frustrated at how slow the chats were on SSB (FM was even worse) -
>it seemed like they were wasting a perfectly good band opening ragchewing

Yep. Same here. Often, an opening on any given path may be there only long
enough to exchange the grid and report. It's quite frustrating to wait to
call a station that was S9, then S7, then S5, then S3, then fumes, while
the time is filled with innanity.

>When I turned down to the CW portion of the band, it almost sounded like
>a CW contest weekend.

Yes. I've gotten to the point that I spend most of my 6M efforts on CW,
only tuning up to the SSB portion of the band when nothing is happening on
CW. And thanks in part to the proliferation of K3s, there is a lot more CW
activity than there was only 5 years ago.

73, Jim K9YC


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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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01:36:00

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Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

[David Gilbert]

I think the issue is that openings are often so brief on 6m that while 
you're exchanging pleasantries the guy waiting behind you is likely to 
end up with nothing.  That's the radio equivalent of having the guy in 
front of you in the left turn lane use up the entire arrow.

Just as in any other situation, it seems appropriate to me for folks to 
adapt their operating habits to the environment at hand but clearly not 
everyone views it that way.  I had never operated 6m before but last 
June (2009) I thought it might be fun to chase grids on Es.  I 
discovered that most of the activity was on SSB, and my experience after 
a few weeks effort was that a rather high percentage of the people I 
heard were in the mud by the time they finished chatting.  Not much fun 
in that for me and I haven't even bothered with it this year.  Waiting 
out propagation is one thing ... helplessly watching it go away is quite 
another.

73,
Dave   AB7E



On 7/5/2010 1:37 PM, The Smiths wrote:
> Wow, someone else that agrees with me.
>
> 6 meters is a BIG disapointment.  You get on there and all you hear is stuff 
> you could otherwise work with a 10' wire on 17 meters, and then all you get 
> is a call sign and if you're lucky an RST.. Then before you can even say 
> goodbye or 73 the other person has already gone.  What kind of enjoyment is 
> that?  To each their own.. I'll save that kind of operation for Contesters...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 12:29:59 -0700
>> From: wrco...@yahoo.com
>> To: j...@audiosystemsgroup.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW
>>
>> I don't feel that way at all.  A contact in which only grids are exchanged 
>> leaves me with little satisfaction at all.  I at least like to exchange 
>> names and QTH.  I get enough of the quicky QSOs with contests.  I don't need 
>> more on six meters or digital contacts.  I know I am out of step with the 
>> avant guarde, but I don't enjoy six meters much because of  these quick 
>> exchanges.
>>   Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
>> K5EWJ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> From: Jim Brown
>> To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net"
>> Sent: Mon, July 5, 2010 10:41:55 AM
>> Subject: [Elecraft] 6M CW
>>
>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 08:29:08 -0700 (PDT), Ken McGuire wrote:
>>
>>  
>>> I was frustrated at how slow the chats were on SSB (FM was even worse) -
>>> it seemed like they were wasting a perfectly good band opening ragchewing
>>>
>> Yep. Same here. Often, an opening on any given path may be there only long
>> enough to exchange the grid and report. It's quite frustrating to wait to
>> call a station that was S9, then S7, then S5, then S3, then fumes, while
>> the time is filled with innanity.
>>
>>  
>>> When I turned down to the CW portion of the band, it almost sounded like
>>> a CW contest weekend.
>>>
>> Yes. I've gotten to the point that I spend most of my 6M efforts on CW,
>> only tuning up to the SSB portion of the band when nothing is happening on
>> CW. And thanks in part to the proliferation of K3s, there is a lot more CW
>> activity than there was only 5 years ago.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>  
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Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

[The Smiths]

Wow, someone else that agrees with me.  

6 meters is a BIG disapointment.  You get on there and all you hear is stuff 
you could otherwise work with a 10' wire on 17 meters, and then all you get is 
a call sign and if you're lucky an RST.. Then before you can even say goodbye 
or 73 the other person has already gone.  What kind of enjoyment is that?  To 
each their own.. I'll save that kind of operation for Contesters...

 


 
> Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 12:29:59 -0700
> From: wrco...@yahoo.com
> To: j...@audiosystemsgroup.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW
> 
> I don't feel that way at all.  A contact in which only grids are exchanged 
> leaves me with little satisfaction at all.  I at least like to exchange names 
> and QTH.  I get enough of the quicky QSOs with contests.  I don't need more 
> on six meters or digital contacts.  I know I am out of step with the avant 
> guarde, but I don't enjoy six meters much because of  these quick exchanges.
>  Willis 'Cookie' Cooke 
> K5EWJ 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Jim Brown 
> To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
> Sent: Mon, July 5, 2010 10:41:55 AM
> Subject: [Elecraft] 6M CW
> 
> On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 08:29:08 -0700 (PDT), Ken McGuire wrote:
> 
> >I was frustrated at how slow the chats were on SSB (FM was even worse) -
> >it seemed like they were wasting a perfectly good band opening ragchewing
> 
> Yep. Same here. Often, an opening on any given path may be there only long 
> enough to exchange the grid and report. It's quite frustrating to wait to 
> call a station that was S9, then S7, then S5, then S3, then fumes, while 
> the time is filled with innanity. 
> 
> >When I turned down to the CW portion of the band, it almost sounded like
> >a CW contest weekend.
> 
> Yes. I've gotten to the point that I spend most of my 6M efforts on CW, 
> only tuning up to the SSB portion of the band when nothing is happening on 
> CW. And thanks in part to the proliferation of K3s, there is a lot more CW 
> activity than there was only 5 years ago.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

[Gary Gregory]

Cookie,

You are not alone.

My sentiments exactly.

Gary

On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 5:29 AM, WILLIS COOKE  wrote:

> I don't feel that way at all.  A contact in which only grids are exchanged
> leaves me with little satisfaction at all.  I at least like
> to exchange names and QTH.  I get enough of the quicky QSOs with contests.
> I don't need more on six meters or digital contacts.  I know I am out of
> step with the avant guarde, but I don't enjoy six meters much because of
> these quick exchanges.
>  Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
> K5EWJ
>
>
>
>
> 
> From: Jim Brown 
> To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
> Sent: Mon, July 5, 2010 10:41:55 AM
> Subject: [Elecraft] 6M CW
>
> On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 08:29:08 -0700 (PDT), Ken McGuire wrote:
>
> >I was frustrated at how slow the chats were on SSB (FM was even worse) -
> >it seemed like they were wasting a perfectly good band opening ragchewing
>
> Yep. Same here. Often, an opening on any given path may be there only long
> enough to exchange the grid and report. It's quite frustrating to wait to
> call a station that was S9, then S7, then S5, then S3, then fumes, while
> the time is filled with innanity.
>
> >When I turned down to the CW portion of the band, it almost sounded like
> >a CW contest weekend.
>
> Yes. I've gotten to the point that I spend most of my 6M efforts on CW,
> only tuning up to the SSB portion of the band when nothing is happening on
> CW. And thanks in part to the proliferation of K3s, there is a lot more CW
> activity than there was only 5 years ago.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
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-- 
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For everything else there's Mastercard!!!
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Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

[WILLIS COOKE]

I don't feel that way at all.  A contact in which only grids are exchanged 
leaves me with little satisfaction at all.  I at least like to exchange names 
and QTH.  I get enough of the quicky QSOs with contests.  I don't need more on 
six meters or digital contacts.  I know I am out of step with the avant guarde, 
but I don't enjoy six meters much because of  these quick exchanges.
 Willis 'Cookie' Cooke 
K5EWJ 





From: Jim Brown 
To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
Sent: Mon, July 5, 2010 10:41:55 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] 6M CW

On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 08:29:08 -0700 (PDT), Ken McGuire wrote:

>I was frustrated at how slow the chats were on SSB (FM was even worse) -
>it seemed like they were wasting a perfectly good band opening ragchewing

Yep. Same here. Often, an opening on any given path may be there only long 
enough to exchange the grid and report. It's quite frustrating to wait to 
call a station that was S9, then S7, then S5, then S3, then fumes, while 
the time is filled with innanity. 

>When I turned down to the CW portion of the band, it almost sounded like
>a CW contest weekend.

Yes. I've gotten to the point that I spend most of my 6M efforts on CW, 
only tuning up to the SSB portion of the band when nothing is happening on 
CW. And thanks in part to the proliferation of K3s, there is a lot more CW 
activity than there was only 5 years ago.

73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp

[Julian, G4ILO]

Jim Cox wrote:
> 
> Amen Joe.   It is amazing the gripes you hear and the justifications for 
> them.   The specs were advertised; if you didnt like them, why did you 
> purchase a K3?
> I am a very satisfied K3 customer and I have used the K3 to work weak dx
> on 
> all the bands 160-6 meters..  Jim K4JAF
> 
I believe the right to freedom of speech extends to this reflector, Jim. I
think Elecraft themselves may have inadvertently helped to feed the
impression that the K3 was below par on 6m by rushing out an accessory
preamp that was not announced at the time of the K3 launch, even ahead of
accessories that were announced then such as the voice recorder. I have even
had the opinion expressed to me privately that since the preamp was
"necessary" Elecraft ought to be providing it free of charge to existing
customers!

Therefore I make no apology for raising this matter. I hope that others have
found the ensuing thread informative and ultimately reassuring that the
external preamp is only necessary for those who require the ultimate
performance - just as with any other transceiver. I believe the K3 would not
be as good as it is today if the only feedback Elecraft got from its
customers was fanboy adulation.

-
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack   http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham
Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 
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Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp

[ab2tc]

Hi all,

Personally I wish Elecraft had resisted the temptation to include the 6m
band in the K3. Grafting the 6m band, which is a VHF band, on to a HF
transceiver will always be a compromise at best and at worst it might affect
HF performance negatively.  In my opinion ICOM made a good choice in their
low end transceivers (IC-718, IC-7200) to eliminate 6m and FM mode. Both
choices are generally unneeded by HF operators and both make good
engineering optimizations possible for the mainstream HF modes.

Knut - AB2TC


W7GJ, Lance wrote:
> 
> 
> Julian, G4ILO wrote:
> 
>> I'm not saying that performance on six meters should have been higher
>> than
>> the performance on the HF bands. I'm saying that it should not be worse
>> than
>> an IC-756 PRO III, a TS-2000 or an FT-2000 would be, considering the
>> claims
>> made about the K3's performance.
>> 
>> I have no idea of the proportion of K3 users who will never use 6 meters
>> in
>> any serious way. However I think there are quite a few, such as myself,
>> who
>> will have some fun on the band from time to time simply because modern HF
>> transceivers now include it. I'm certainly not serious enough about 6m to
>> spend money on a preamp for it, so I'm feeling a little short-changed
>> after
>> receiving information that the K3 is so deaf on 6m that you need one. The
>> other radios mentioned above certainly are usable on 6m without a preamp
>> by
>> all but the most diehard enthusiast who would probably want it at the
>> masthead anyway.
>> 
>> -
>> Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
>> http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack   http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham
>> Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 
> 
> Hello Julian,
> 
> Yes, other HF/6m transceivers such as the IC756 and IC746 are also
> relatively 
> insensitive when it comes to 6m.  I understand the typical HF/6m
> transceiver has a 
> front end noise figure in the neighborhood of 5 or 6 dB on 6m and some are
> much 
> worse.  Part of the tradeoff for handling strong signals on 20m I suppose. 
> For most 
> strong signal applications it makes little difference.
> 
> Putting a low noise preamp such as the one offered by Elecraft ahead of
> your receiver 
> typically will give you a dB or so more sensitivity, provided you have low
> loss 
> feedline.  If you are using lossy old RG8 or RG58 then you might as well
> not bother 
> with a preamp because if there was a weak signal there at the antenna, it
> will be 
> gone at your rig anyway.  For strong signal openings who cares about a dB
> or two? 
> For weak signal contacts from a quiet QTH, that can make all the
> difference.
> 
> It is great to have a rig like the K3 where you have an option.  GL and VY
> 73, Lance
> -- 
> Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex: WN3GPL, WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8)
> P.O. Box 73
> Frenchtown, MT  59834  USA
> QTH: DN27UB
> TEL: (406) 626-5728
> URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj
> 2m DXCC #11/6m DXCC #815
> 
> 
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> 


-
AB2TC - Knut
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Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp

[Jim Cox]

Amen Joe.   It is amazing the gripes you hear and the justifications for 
them.   The specs were advertised; if you didnt like them, why did you 
purchase a K3?
I am a very satisfied K3 customer and I have used the K3 to work weak dx on 
all the bands 160-6 meters..  Jim K4JAF



- Original Message - 
From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "'Ian White GM3SEK'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 5:57 PM
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp






The K3's sensitivity specification corresponds to a noise figure
of about 13dB. My K3 meets its sensitivity spec almost exactly,


That's the point.  The K3 meets its specifications.


The K3 with a preamp is probably the best 6m receiver available;
but this high-end rig should have included a competent 6m preamp
and bypass relays on the original KVXV3 board, and not as a clumsy
afterthought.


You will never get agreement as to what should be included in
the KXV3 (transverter board) or the overall "package."  Low band
fans will tell you the transceiver should include full receive
antenna switching (e.g., relays to allow the KRX3 to use the
transmit antenna while the main receiver uses the RX antenna
and/or allow each receiver to use a different low noise receive
antenna. There is simply is no room for the "other" functions
on the KXV3 and no justification for adding the extra cost (and
operational complexity) for features that will only be used by
a small fraction of users.

Elecraft have struck an excellent balance - designing a rig
with an equal level of performance across the operating range
and providing an interface (KXV3) that allows those who want
additional performance or features (better rx antenna switching,
higher sensitivity on 50 MHz, UHF/VHF transverters, KRX3, etc.)
to add them as needed and at reasonable cost.





-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian
White GM3SEK
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 6:23 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp


gd0tep wrote:
>As some one who bought the K3 purely for it's RX performance
on 6m, can
>some one tell me once and for all if it is as good as, or
better/worse
>than, other radios like the Icom 756 pro etc... It was my
understanding
>from information provided that it was, is this not the case??

The K3's sensitivity specification corresponds to a noise figure of
about 13dB. My K3 meets its sensitivity spec almost exactly,
but at this
site it can barely hear antenna noise on 6m.

By contrast, the old IC-746 hears 6m antenna noise easily
because it has
a VHF-optimized preamp built in. Even that ageing mid-range rig has a
choice of two different preamps (and a third dedicated to 2m).

Of course it's still possible to work lots of weak DX on 6m using the
standard K3 receiver; but in the limit, some QSOs will be lost that
could have been completed with a more sensitive receiver.

The K3 with a preamp is probably the best 6m receiver available; but
this high-end rig should have included a competent 6m preamp
and bypass
relays on the original KVXV3 board, and not as a clumsy afterthought.



--

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RE: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp

[Bill Johnson]

Julian,

" clear that this is as a result of a design compromise made on the
basis that HF performance was paramount"  I don't think it was a compromise,
if it was intentional to keep performance at peak.  Weak signal work usually
requires preamp at the antenna not at the radio, and personally I'd rather
have the focus on MDS with excellent ears.  The excellent ears without MDS
are useless in high noise and strong adjacent sigs.


73,

Bill
K9YEQ
K2 #35; KX1 #35; K3 #1744; mini mods


-Original Message-


Still, I'm glad to hear from other contributors to this thread who have said
that they have found the stock K3 just fine. Given that I'm in a fairly
noisy urban environment, perhaps the preamp would have been a waste of money
for me anyway.

-
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.

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RE: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

> The K3's sensitivity specification corresponds to a noise figure 
> of about 13dB. My K3 meets its sensitivity spec almost exactly, 

That's the point.  The K3 meets its specifications. 

> The K3 with a preamp is probably the best 6m receiver available; 
> but this high-end rig should have included a competent 6m preamp 
> and bypass relays on the original KVXV3 board, and not as a clumsy 
> afterthought.

You will never get agreement as to what should be included in 
the KXV3 (transverter board) or the overall "package."  Low band 
fans will tell you the transceiver should include full receive 
antenna switching (e.g., relays to allow the KRX3 to use the 
transmit antenna while the main receiver uses the RX antenna 
and/or allow each receiver to use a different low noise receive 
antenna. There is simply is no room for the "other" functions 
on the KXV3 and no justification for adding the extra cost (and 
operational complexity) for features that will only be used by 
a small fraction of users.  

Elecraft have struck an excellent balance - designing a rig 
with an equal level of performance across the operating range 
and providing an interface (KXV3) that allows those who want 
additional performance or features (better rx antenna switching, 
higher sensitivity on 50 MHz, UHF/VHF transverters, KRX3, etc.) 
to add them as needed and at reasonable cost. 




> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian 
> White GM3SEK
> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 6:23 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp
> 
> 
> gd0tep wrote:
> >As some one who bought the K3 purely for it's RX performance 
> on 6m, can
> >some one tell me once and for all if it is as good as, or 
> better/worse 
> >than, other radios like the Icom 756 pro etc... It was my 
> understanding 
> >from information provided that it was, is this not the case??
> 
> The K3's sensitivity specification corresponds to a noise figure of 
> about 13dB. My K3 meets its sensitivity spec almost exactly, 
> but at this 
> site it can barely hear antenna noise on 6m.
> 
> By contrast, the old IC-746 hears 6m antenna noise easily 
> because it has 
> a VHF-optimized preamp built in. Even that ageing mid-range rig has a 
> choice of two different preamps (and a third dedicated to 2m).
> 
> Of course it's still possible to work lots of weak DX on 6m using the 
> standard K3 receiver; but in the limit, some QSOs will be lost that 
> could have been completed with a more sensitive receiver.
> 
> The K3 with a preamp is probably the best 6m receiver available; but 
> this high-end rig should have included a competent 6m preamp 
> and bypass 
> relays on the original KVXV3 board, and not as a clumsy afterthought.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 73 from Ian GM3SEK ___
> Elecraft mailing list
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Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp

[Brendan Minish]

On Thu, 2008-10-23 at 05:05 -0700, Julian, G4ILO wrote:

> I can always use the FT-817. Just how deaf is the K3 on 6m really, anyway?

Not very deaf at all. It's just not capable of hearing to the thermal
nose floor at a good setup.
Having said that Stock K3's have managed EME contacts so it's not far
off and the stock K3 is definitely better on 6m than many of the other
mid priced  HF+6m, radios out there and runs veritable rings around the
817 on 6m in the sensitivity stakes. 

Adding the preamp here ( I am one of the 6m-pre beta testers)  to my
good set-up (7 element long yagi in a very quiet rural location) helps
by a couple of dB, well worth having for weak signal work but makes no
difference for 95% of my 6m Contacts 
If your local noise floor is not quiet then the 6m pre won't help a
bit. 
A quick test is does the received nose level drop significantly (several
dB) when you switch from your antenna to a 50Ohm Dummy load?  
If so then it is unlikely a preamp will help.  
  
73
Brendan 
-- 
Don‘t complain. Nobody will understand. Or care. And certainly don‘t try
to fix the situation yourself. It‘s dangerous. Leave it to a highly
untrained, unqualified, expendable professional.

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Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp

[Ian White GM3SEK]

gd0tep wrote:
As some one who bought the K3 purely for it's RX performance on 6m, can 
some one tell me once and for all if it is as good as, or better/worse 
than, other radios like the Icom 756 pro etc... It was my understanding 
from information provided that it was, is this not the case??


The K3's sensitivity specification corresponds to a noise figure of 
about 13dB. My K3 meets its sensitivity spec almost exactly, but at this 
site it can barely hear antenna noise on 6m.


By contrast, the old IC-746 hears 6m antenna noise easily because it has 
a VHF-optimized preamp built in. Even that ageing mid-range rig has a 
choice of two different preamps (and a third dedicated to 2m).


Of course it's still possible to work lots of weak DX on 6m using the 
standard K3 receiver; but in the limit, some QSOs will be lost that 
could have been completed with a more sensitive receiver.


The K3 with a preamp is probably the best 6m receiver available; but 
this high-end rig should have included a competent 6m preamp and bypass 
relays on the original KVXV3 board, and not as a clumsy afterthought.




--

73 from Ian GM3SEK
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RE: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp

[Julian, G4ILO]

Joe Subich, W4TV-3 wrote:
> 
> No, you are asking for a lower MDS than on HF without regard to 
> the overall performance of the radio in terms of dynamic range. 
> There are many K3 users who rely on dynamic range and freedom 
> from interference on HF that blows away any of the radios you 
> list.  Even on six meters they K3 dynamic range far exceeds that 
> of the YaeComWood radios you cite.  
> 
> Above all, your information concerning sensitivity is just plain 
> wrong.  The ARRL Lab data shows the FT-2000 sensitivity (MDS) on 
> 50 MHz (preamp off) at -122 dBm ... and measures the K3 MDS at 
> -128 dBm (preamp off).  Similarly, with "preamp 1" the FT-2000 
> measured at -131 dBm vs. -135 dBm for the K3 (internal preamp). 
> If you want to compare the TS-2000, its MDS (preamp off) is -127 
> dBm rising to -142 dBm with preamp on but with a dynamic range 
> of only 66dB (worse than a 30 year old FT-101!).  To complete 
> your comparisons, the Icom has the same -136 dBm MDS with 
> "preamp 1" and a dynamic range of only 74 dB.  I would say 
> that Eric and Wayne made exactly the right design decisions 
> with a -136 dBm MDS and 100 dB dynamic range. 
> 
> Yes, the K3's MDS is slightly worse on 50 MHz than on 14 MHz 
> due to the additional filtering in the front end.  However, even 
> with a lousy vertical antenna, my receiver noise always increases 
> by at least 2 dB when switching from a dummy load to the antenna. 
> A second higher gain, preamplifier would be of no value to the 
> vast majority of K3 users ... in fact it would likely be counter-
> productive as it would harm the excellent dynamic range of the 
> radio.  Why should those who have no need for the ultra high 
> sensitivity on a band they rarely use subsidize performance that 
> benefits only a limited few?  
> 
> 

Because the K3 is advertised as a "high performance 160-6m transceiver", not
a "high performance 160-10m transceiver with 6m coverage at a lower level of
performance."

I don't see why good 6m receive performance is necessarily incompatible with
good HF dynamic range. Preamps can be switched out, and some Japanese made
radios I believe have separate preamps for their VHF bands. Wayne has
explained why the sensitivity on 6m is not as good as on other bands and it
is clear that this is as a result of a design compromise made on the basis
that HF performance was paramount. As someone else in this thread pointed
out, this compromise is not something that is widely publicised, and it
might have affected some people's purchase decisions. I might not have sold
the 6m transverter I used with my K2 if I had known that the K3 was not
going to have the superior performance on all bands that I thought it was
going to have.

Still, I'm glad to hear from other contributors to this thread who have said
that they have found the stock K3 just fine. Given that I'm in a fairly
noisy urban environment, perhaps the preamp would have been a waste of money
for me anyway.

-
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack   http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham
Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 
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RE: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

> I'm not saying that performance on six meters should have 
> been higher than the performance on the HF bands. I'm saying 
> that it should not be worse than an IC-756 PRO III, a TS-2000 
> or an FT-2000 would be, considering the claims made about the 
> K3's performance.

No, you are asking for a lower MDS than on HF without regard to 
the overall performance of the radio in terms of dynamic range. 
There are many K3 users who rely on dynamic range and freedom 
from interference on HF that blows away any of the radios you 
list.  Even on six meters they K3 dynamic range far exceeds that 
of the YaeComWood radios you cite.  

Above all, your information concerning sensitivity is just plain 
wrong.  The ARRL Lab data shows the FT-2000 sensitivity (MDS) on 
50 MHz (preamp off) at -122 dBm ... and measures the K3 MDS at 
-128 dBm (preamp off).  Similarly, with "preamp 1" the FT-2000 
measured at -131 dBm vs. -135 dBm for the K3 (internal preamp). 
If you want to compare the TS-2000, its MDS (preamp off) is -127 
dBm rising to -142 dBm with preamp on but with a dynamic range 
of only 66dB (worse than a 30 year old FT-101!).  To complete 
your comparisons, the Icom has the same -136 dBm MDS with 
"preamp 1" and a dynamic range of only 74 dB.  I would say 
that Eric and Wayne made exactly the right design decisions 
with a -136 dBm MDS and 100 dB dynamic range. 

Yes, the K3's MDS is slightly worse on 50 MHz than on 14 MHz 
due to the additional filtering in the front end.  However, even 
with a lousy vertical antenna, my receiver noise always increases 
by at least 2 dB when switching from a dummy load to the antenna. 
A second higher gain, preamplifier would be of no value to the 
vast majority of K3 users ... in fact it would likely be counter-
productive as it would harm the excellent dynamic range of the 
radio.  Why should those who have no need for the ultra high 
sensitivity on a band they rarely use subsidize performance that 
benefits only a limited few?  




> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Julian, G4ILO
> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 2:52 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: RE: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joe Subich, W4TV-3 wrote:
> > 
> > I don't know that you can say performance on six meters should
> > have been higher than the performance on the HF bands.  There 
> > are probably more K3 users who will never use six meters in any 
> > serious way than those who will.  However, the Elecraft preamp 
> > does represent a substantial premium for RX Loop pass-through and 
> > ease of integration.  Whether the premium is justified is a 
> > decision for the user and the option allows those who need it 
> > to get the performance without taxing those who will never benefit 
> > from it. 
> > 
> I'm not saying that performance on six meters should have 
> been higher than the performance on the HF bands. I'm saying 
> that it should not be worse than an IC-756 PRO III, a TS-2000 
> or an FT-2000 would be, considering the claims made about the 
> K3's performance.
> 
> I have no idea of the proportion of K3 users who will never 
> use 6 meters in any serious way. However I think there are 
> quite a few, such as myself, who will have some fun on the 
> band from time to time simply because modern HF transceivers 
> now include it. I'm certainly not serious enough about 6m to 
> spend money on a preamp for it, so I'm feeling a little 
> short-changed after receiving information that the K3 is so 
> deaf on 6m that you need one. The other radios mentioned 
> above certainly are usable on 6m without a preamp by all but 
> the most diehard enthusiast who would probably want it at the 
> masthead anyway.
> 
> -
> Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
> http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack   
> http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham
> Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for 
> Elecraft K2 and K3 
> -- 
> View this message in context: 
> http://n2.nabble.com/6M-Preamp-tp1366337p1369367.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
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RE: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp

[gd0tep]

As some one who bought the K3 purely for it's RX performance on 6m, can some
one tell me once and for all if it is as good as, or better/worse than,
other radios like the Icom 756 pro etc... 
It was my understanding from information provided that it was, is this not
the case??

73
Andy
http://www.gd0tep.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Julian, G4ILO
Sent: 23 October 2008 19:52
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp




Joe Subich, W4TV-3 wrote:
> 
> I don't know that you can say performance on six meters should 
> have been higher than the performance on the HF bands.  There 
> are probably more K3 users who will never use six meters in any 
> serious way than those who will.  However, the Elecraft preamp 
> does represent a substantial premium for RX Loop pass-through and 
> ease of integration.  Whether the premium is justified is a 
> decision for the user and the option allows those who need it 
> to get the performance without taxing those who will never benefit 
> from it. 
> 
I'm not saying that performance on six meters should have been higher than
the performance on the HF bands. I'm saying that it should not be worse than
an IC-756 PRO III, a TS-2000 or an FT-2000 would be, considering the claims
made about the K3's performance.

I have no idea of the proportion of K3 users who will never use 6 meters in
any serious way. However I think there are quite a few, such as myself, who
will have some fun on the band from time to time simply because modern HF
transceivers now include it. I'm certainly not serious enough about 6m to
spend money on a preamp for it, so I'm feeling a little short-changed after
receiving information that the K3 is so deaf on 6m that you need one. The
other radios mentioned above certainly are usable on 6m without a preamp by
all but the most diehard enthusiast who would probably want it at the
masthead anyway.

-
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack   http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham
Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 
-- 
View this message in context:
http://n2.nabble.com/6M-Preamp-tp1366337p1369367.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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RE: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp K3

[Bill Johnson]

Yes, the 502, I had one of those and worked with the built in antenna to
great results with 2 watts.  The K3 has some good noise filtering and the
filters are helpful.  I have two other radios capable of 6 meters and have
not done a comparison.


Bill

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Wiley
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 3:32 PM
To: Greg-N4CC
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp


While having a 6-meter preamplifier may help when signals are weak, if 
the band well and truly opens, signals will be so strong that overload 
will be most operator's main problem.  Remember that during the openings 
of 1948 and 1959, many stations managed to work WAS with transmitters 
that put out less than 10 watts (Gonset "Communicators" and the like) 
and had receivers where a 10 db noise figure was considered good, and 
many were much worse, plus many were using very simple antennas (eg: a 
ground-plane vertical).  Up this way, Tim, KL7WE (SK) did indeed work 
WAS (from Alaska) with a barefoot 2 to 3 watt output ICOM IC-502 set in 
the 1970's.   Not trying to discourage anyone from having a preamplifier 
available, but just mentioning that with a bit of patience,  a "stock" 
radio may be all you need.


- Jim, KL7CC


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Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp

[Jim Wiley]

While having a 6-meter preamplifier may help when signals are weak, if 
the band well and truly opens, signals will be so strong that overload 
will be most operator's main problem.  Remember that during the openings 
of 1948 and 1959, many stations managed to work WAS with transmitters 
that put out less than 10 watts (Gonset "Communicators" and the like) 
and had receivers where a 10 db noise figure was considered good, and 
many were much worse, plus many were using very simple antennas (eg: a 
ground-plane vertical).  Up this way, Tim, KL7WE (SK) did indeed work 
WAS (from Alaska) with a barefoot 2 to 3 watt output ICOM IC-502 set in 
the 1970's.   Not trying to discourage anyone from having a preamplifier 
available, but just mentioning that with a bit of patience,  a "stock" 
radio may be all you need.



- Jim, KL7CC





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Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp

[LANCE COLLISTER]

Julian, G4ILO wrote:

> I'm not saying that performance on six meters should have been higher than
> the performance on the HF bands. I'm saying that it should not be worse than
> an IC-756 PRO III, a TS-2000 or an FT-2000 would be, considering the claims
> made about the K3's performance.
> 
> I have no idea of the proportion of K3 users who will never use 6 meters in
> any serious way. However I think there are quite a few, such as myself, who
> will have some fun on the band from time to time simply because modern HF
> transceivers now include it. I'm certainly not serious enough about 6m to
> spend money on a preamp for it, so I'm feeling a little short-changed after
> receiving information that the K3 is so deaf on 6m that you need one. The
> other radios mentioned above certainly are usable on 6m without a preamp by
> all but the most diehard enthusiast who would probably want it at the
> masthead anyway.
> 
> -
> Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
> http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack   http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham
> Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 

Hello Julian,

Yes, other HF/6m transceivers such as the IC756 and IC746 are also relatively 
insensitive when it comes to 6m.  I understand the typical HF/6m transceiver 
has a 
front end noise figure in the neighborhood of 5 or 6 dB on 6m and some are much 
worse.  Part of the tradeoff for handling strong signals on 20m I suppose.  For 
most 
strong signal applications it makes little difference.

Putting a low noise preamp such as the one offered by Elecraft ahead of your 
receiver 
typically will give you a dB or so more sensitivity, provided you have low loss 
feedline.  If you are using lossy old RG8 or RG58 then you might as well not 
bother 
with a preamp because if there was a weak signal there at the antenna, it will 
be 
gone at your rig anyway.  For strong signal openings who cares about a dB or 
two? 
For weak signal contacts from a quiet QTH, that can make all the difference.

It is great to have a rig like the K3 where you have an option.  GL and VY 73, 
Lance
-- 
Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex: WN3GPL, WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8)
P.O. Box 73
Frenchtown, MT  59834  USA
QTH: DN27UB
TEL: (406) 626-5728
URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj
2m DXCC #11/6m DXCC #815

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Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp

[dalspaugh]

I wonder if someone from Elecraft might step in here with a comment on what 
their position is regarding 6 mtr sensitivity. Here, I am able to hear a beacon 
that is about 25 miles from my QTH with a very minimum of an antenna. I am 
waiting for a 6 mtr opening to see if I can make any contacts but would be 
interested in knowing what Elecraft says about the 6 mtr operaiton of the K3. 


73 Doug N3QW 


- Original Message - 
From: "G4ILO Julian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 2:52:27 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern 
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp 




Joe Subich, W4TV-3 wrote: 
> 
> I don't know that you can say performance on six meters should 
> have been higher than the performance on the HF bands. There 
> are probably more K3 users who will never use six meters in any 
> serious way than those who will. However, the Elecraft preamp 
> does represent a substantial premium for RX Loop pass-through and 
> ease of integration. Whether the premium is justified is a 
> decision for the user and the option allows those who need it 
> to get the performance without taxing those who will never benefit 
> from it. 
> 
I'm not saying that performance on six meters should have been higher than 
the performance on the HF bands. I'm saying that it should not be worse than 
an IC-756 PRO III, a TS-2000 or an FT-2000 would be, considering the claims 
made about the K3's performance. 

I have no idea of the proportion of K3 users who will never use 6 meters in 
any serious way. However I think there are quite a few, such as myself, who 
will have some fun on the band from time to time simply because modern HF 
transceivers now include it. I'm certainly not serious enough about 6m to 
spend money on a preamp for it, so I'm feeling a little short-changed after 
receiving information that the K3 is so deaf on 6m that you need one. The 
other radios mentioned above certainly are usable on 6m without a preamp by 
all but the most diehard enthusiast who would probably want it at the 
masthead anyway. 

- 
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. 
http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham 
Directory http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://n2.nabble.com/6M-Preamp-tp1366337p1369367.html 
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. 

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RE: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp

[Julian, G4ILO]

Joe Subich, W4TV-3 wrote:
> 
> I don't know that you can say performance on six meters should 
> have been higher than the performance on the HF bands.  There 
> are probably more K3 users who will never use six meters in any 
> serious way than those who will.  However, the Elecraft preamp 
> does represent a substantial premium for RX Loop pass-through and 
> ease of integration.  Whether the premium is justified is a 
> decision for the user and the option allows those who need it 
> to get the performance without taxing those who will never benefit 
> from it. 
> 
I'm not saying that performance on six meters should have been higher than
the performance on the HF bands. I'm saying that it should not be worse than
an IC-756 PRO III, a TS-2000 or an FT-2000 would be, considering the claims
made about the K3's performance.

I have no idea of the proportion of K3 users who will never use 6 meters in
any serious way. However I think there are quite a few, such as myself, who
will have some fun on the band from time to time simply because modern HF
transceivers now include it. I'm certainly not serious enough about 6m to
spend money on a preamp for it, so I'm feeling a little short-changed after
receiving information that the K3 is so deaf on 6m that you need one. The
other radios mentioned above certainly are usable on 6m without a preamp by
all but the most diehard enthusiast who would probably want it at the
masthead anyway.

-
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack   http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham
Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://n2.nabble.com/6M-Preamp-tp1366337p1369367.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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RE: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

> That sounds like a huge improvement, but the ARR is a 
> high-end preamp if I am not mistaken. I guess my question is 
> really, is the K3 inferior to other transceivers in its price 
> class as regards 6m sensitivity?

I believe the tests were made with the economy version of the ARR 
preamp (P50VD: 1.3 dB nf, 15 dB gain).  The P50VD is $49.95 ... 
A similar preamp is available from Down East Microwave .. the 
6MLNA (0.7 dB nf, 18 dB gain) is $64.00 ($35.00 kit).  

> Most people would accept the need to purchase accessories to get 
> the last bit of performance. Paying out $150 (or $250) to bring 
> the performance up to what it should have been in the first place 
> is a different matter. 

I don't know that you can say performance on six meters should 
have been higher than the performance on the HF bands.  There 
are probably more K3 users who will never use six meters in any 
serious way than those who will.  However, the Elecraft preamp 
does represent a substantial premium for RX Loop pass-through and 
ease of integration.  Whether the premium is justified is a 
decision for the user and the option allows those who need it 
to get the performance without taxing those who will never benefit 
from it. 

73, 

   ... Joe, W4TV 
  





> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Julian, G4ILO
> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 1:35 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dave G4AON wrote:
> > 
> > Julian, from my earlier measurements (from per my web 
> site): "Adding 
> > an
> > external pre-amplifier between the RF out and RF in of a 
> KXV3 interface 
> > improves the sensitivity by 10 dBm giving 10 dB SINAD at 
> -136 dBm in 400 
> > Hz bandwidth and a MDS of -146 dBm -which compares to an 
> MDS of -136 dBm 
> > without the pre-amp.
> > 
> That sounds like a huge improvement, but the ARR is a 
> high-end preamp if I am not mistaken. I guess my question is 
> really, is the K3 inferior to other transceivers in its price 
> class as regards 6m sensitivity? Most people would accept the 
> need to purchase accessories to get the last bit of 
> performance. Paying out $150 (or $250) to bring the 
> performance up to what it should have been in the first place 
> is a different matter. 
> 
> -
> Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
> http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack   
> http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham
> Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for 
> Elecraft K2 and K3 
> -- 
> View this message in context: 
> http://n2.nabble.com/6M-Preamp-tp1366337p1369090.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp

[Julian, G4ILO]

Dave G4AON wrote:
> 
> Julian, from my earlier measurements (from per my web site): "Adding an 
> external pre-amplifier between the RF out and RF in of a KXV3 interface 
> improves the sensitivity by 10 dBm giving 10 dB SINAD at -136 dBm in 400 
> Hz bandwidth and a MDS of -146 dBm -which compares to an MDS of -136 dBm 
> without the pre-amp.
> 
That sounds like a huge improvement, but the ARR is a high-end preamp if I
am not mistaken. I guess my question is really, is the K3 inferior to other
transceivers in its price class as regards 6m sensitivity? Most people would
accept the need to purchase accessories to get the last bit of performance.
Paying out $150 (or $250) to bring the performance up to what it should have
been in the first place is a different matter. 

-
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack   http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham
Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://n2.nabble.com/6M-Preamp-tp1366337p1369090.html
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Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp

[Dave G4AON]

Julian, from my earlier measurements (from per my web site): "Adding an 
external pre-amplifier between the RF out and RF in of a KXV3 interface 
improves the sensitivity by 10 dBm giving 10 dB SINAD at -136 dBm in 400 
Hz bandwidth and a MDS of -146 dBm -which compares to an MDS of -136 dBm 
without the pre-amp. The pre-amp I am using is an Advanced Receiver 
Research Inc. model P50VDG with power derived from the +12 Volt output 
of the K3. There is no need to add a 10 dB attenuator after the pre-amp 
as the K3 attenuator works fine to reduce strong signals and in any 
event the pre-amp can be switched out by pressing the "RX ANT" switch on 
the K3."


The 0.5 dB NF Advanced Receiver Research 6m pre-amp is a similar package 
to the PR6, except it only has the IN/OUT sockets. 
http://www.advancedreceiver.com/


73 Dave, G4AON
K3/100 #80
=

Well, given the current economic climate, at $250 (KXV3 + preamp) plus
shipping to get performance that the stock K3 ought to have been capable of
anyway, I think I'll pass on this.

I can always use the FT-817. Just how deaf is the K3 on 6m really, anyway?

-
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222.

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Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp

[LANCE COLLISTER]

David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote:
> sorry, found it - thanks for the heads up - ordered mine to ship with 
> KDVR3 - hell, no 6M until next May anyway!
> :-)
> 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174

You will appreciate the extra dB improvement if you try to make any weak signal 
contacts.  I know that most of the 6m operators around the world live in 
geomagnetically friendly places and only get on for strong signals on Es and 
F2, but 
there are a growing number of us weak signal operators who are coming to 
appreciate 
the real magic that 6m has to offer.

Now that we are at the bottom of the solar cycle, the conditions for EME are 
BEST, 
and I worked two new DXCC so far this week on 6m EME.  Frankly, there is DX 
EVERY 
MONTH on 6m if you are patient and willing to look for it ;-)  The K3 (with an 
external preamp) is ready-made for working weak signal modes such as JT65A 
because 
the computer interface is built-in - GREAT JOB, Elecraft!  I am very much 
looking 
forward to the next new 6m DXCC contact with someone who has a K3 and an ACOM 
1000!

GL and VY 73, Lance

-- 
Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex: WN3GPL, WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8)
P.O. Box 73
Frenchtown, MT  59834  USA
QTH: DN27UB
TEL: (406) 626-5728
URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj
2m DXCC #11/6m DXCC #815

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Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp

[David Ferrington, M0XDF]

Well, difficult for me to tell, since I don't have a great 6m ant.,  
but I think about par with 857 - a good many people on here have said  
is quiet deaf.
I have the KXV3 since I also have the XV144 - which I'll get around to  
building sometime!

--
Study without desire spoils the memory, and it retains nothing that it  
takes in.  -- Leonardo da Vinci


On 23 Oct 2008, at 13:05, Julian, G4ILO wrote:




David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote:


Well, I 'may' not be QRV on 6M until then - depends when the PR6
ships :-)

Thanks for the insight Geoff - I don't have a brilliant Ant for 6
here, so hoping the pre-amp will help  me hear better.
73 de M0XDF, K3 #174


Well, given the current economic climate, at $250 (KXV3 + preamp) plus
shipping to get performance that the stock K3 ought to have been  
capable of

anyway, I think I'll pass on this.

I can always use the FT-817. Just how deaf is the K3 on 6m really,  
anyway?


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Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp

[Julian, G4ILO]

David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote:
> 
> Well, I 'may' not be QRV on 6M until then - depends when the PR6  
> ships :-)
> 
> Thanks for the insight Geoff - I don't have a brilliant Ant for 6  
> here, so hoping the pre-amp will help  me hear better.
> 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174
> 
Well, given the current economic climate, at $250 (KXV3 + preamp) plus
shipping to get performance that the stock K3 ought to have been capable of
anyway, I think I'll pass on this.

I can always use the FT-817. Just how deaf is the K3 on 6m really, anyway?

-
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack   http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham
Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 
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Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp

[David Ferrington, M0XDF]

Well, I 'may' not be QRV on 6M until then - depends when the PR6  
ships :-)


Thanks for the insight Geoff - I don't have a brilliant Ant for 6  
here, so hoping the pre-amp will help  me hear better.

73 de M0XDF, K3 #174
--
Dear God, Did you mean for the giraffe to look like that or was it an
accident? -Norma [Children's Letters to God, 1991]

On 23 Oct 2008, at 11:39, Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy wrote:


David Ferrington, M0XDF, wrote on Thursday, October 23, 2008 2:10 AM


. hell, no 6M until next May anyway! :-)



73 de M0XDF, K3 #174




Don't count on that! :-)  At any point in a solar cycle 6m 'Sporadic  
E' openings do occur during any month of the year, being much more  
frequent and of longer duration during the mid summer and winter  
'seasons'. A fact that I have noted since first using 6m in 1956.



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Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp

[Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy]

David Ferrington, M0XDF, wrote on Thursday, October 23, 2008 2:10 AM


. hell, no 6M until next May anyway! :-)



73 de M0XDF, K3 #174




Don't count on that! :-)  At any point in a solar cycle 6m 'Sporadic E' 
openings do occur during any month of the year, being much more frequent and 
of longer duration during the mid summer and winter 'seasons'. A fact that I 
have noted since first using 6m in 1956.


73,
Geoff
GM4ESD 


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Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp

[Augie Hansen]

David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote:
sorry, found it - thanks for the heads up - ordered mine to ship with 
KDVR3 - hell, no 6M until next May anyway!


The 6m band often has great single and double hop E skip during late 
November and most of December here in the USA. My European 6m DX 
contacts were worked in mid December, but that was F2 propagation during 
the peak of the previous solar cycle (assuming that we're now into the 
new cycle).


Gus Hansen
KB0YH


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Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp

[David Ferrington, M0XDF]

sorry, found it - thanks for the heads up - ordered mine to ship with  
KDVR3 - hell, no 6M until next May anyway!

:-)
73 de M0XDF, K3 #174
--
Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone is
writing a book. -Marcus Tullius Cicero, statesman, orator and writer
(106-43 BC)

On 23 Oct 2008, at 01:22, Greg-N4CC wrote:

The 6M preamp is now on the order page...just ordered mine...   :-)   
73 de Greg-N4CC


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Re: [Elecraft] 6m preamp news?

[David F. Reed]

Perhaps I am missing something; its 10/21 and I still can't find it?

Is there a link we can get, or is it not up yet?

Thanks and 73 de Dave, W5SV

Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:
I'll be putting it up on the order page and on the main web page by 
Monday. We've released it to production and it will be shipping by mid 
next month.


Eric

_..._


Bob Tellefsen wrote:

Does anyone know how the 6m preamp kit is
coming along.  Been a while since the field
testers got theirs.  I'd think it should be close
by now.  Anyone know?
73, Bob N6WG

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