Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Post processor

[Marius Liebenberg]

Your question is a bit cryptic. What software are you using to do the 
CAM with?


On 10/1/2019 5:50 PM, Bhushan Attarde via Emc-users wrote:

how can i implement post porcessor for plasma

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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma build - early planning.

[Les Newell]

You can use non-pilot arc systems but you may need to tweak your pierce 
cycle to nearly touch the work before you turn the torch on. I assume 
your torch uses HF start. In that case pay very close attention to good 
grounding and screening. HF start can play havoc with your electronics.


I would recommend building as big as practical. It generally doesn't 
cost a lot more time or money to build a bigger machine. You can do 
small jobs on a big machine but it is a real pain to try to do big jobs 
on a small machine.


Ball screws aren't that great for plasma. They don't tolerate the 
abrasive dust all that well and you need pretty decent speeds if you are 
cutting thinner materials. Rotating nuts help with the whip problems at 
higher speeds but they can be a pain to engineer and you need to be 
careful you don't exceed the rated maximum rotational speed fro the nut. 
I also like the 'servobelt' idea. I built a 8' x 4' plasma many years 
ago using plain 30mm wide HTD belts (i.e not the doubled up servobelt' 
idea) and that was reasonably accurate but it did suffer from the belts 
flapping a bit.


Les

On 22/08/2018 03:09, Greg Bentzinger via Emc-users wrote:

So I want to build a combo table with dual Z slides - Plasma and Mill/Router.
I have a 50A 60% duty cycle scratch start machine now. I know that if I use it 
I will have trouble with fine screen and expanded metal will be hopeless.
On raw stock it works great, but one of the key reasons I bought it was to tear 
down units for recycling. Baked enamel used on washer dryers requires me to 
grind a clean spot for ground clamp and a spot for each cut start.
Knowing that now I would have paid the extra coin to have the pilot arc 
feature. Am I going to have to get a pilot arc system to be viable for CNC use?
I want to use a magnetic break away mount for the Plasma slide as I also may 
mount a Laser on that slide.
The Mill / Router side will also have quick changeable mounts (quick being a 
relative term) to hold a Router or on the other mount a SEIG X2 mill head I found on 
Craig's list. The X2 head will allow use of all types of R8 tooling and the OEM DC 
motor is a fair match for the rigidity of a 52" wide gantry.
I am thinking of using dual 16mm ball screws fixed with rotating nut drive on 
the gantry legs - This will allow the speed I want without screw whip issues. I 
actually think this might be cheaper than rack/pinion drive, but with dirt 
issues.
Since plasma is not currently part of my business, this project has no real 
budget, but I have collected all kinds of motion control parts, bits and pieces 
that I can use.
Also what is the simplest THC to use with LCNC?
Since the budget also does not provide for enhanced compressed air sources I 
will be adding air pressure switches with logic Pressure low, pause between 
cuts, and pressure good, to resume or start a program.
I may do a 26"x 26" as a preparation build - but that small I might just use 
belt drive.
Ideas?
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma build - early planning.

[andy pugh]

On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 at 11:42, andy pugh  wrote:
>
> I am not sure if they have to use a custom belt, though.

I found the answer, it is standard "T5" or "T2.5" section belting.
Readily available in the UK at least (in fact you have to look hard to
find anything else)

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designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma build - early planning.

[andy pugh]

On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 at 03:12, Greg Bentzinger via Emc-users
 wrote:

> I want to use a magnetic break away mount for the Plasma slide as I also may 
> mount a Laser on that slide.

I bought a bunch of magnetic handbag clasps for an unrelated project
and find myself wondering if they would work for this sort of thing.
I suspect, though, that they are too strong in the shear direction,
and that is the direction that you are most likely to want to release
in with a plasma torch.

> I may do a 26"x 26" as a preparation build - but that small I might just use 
> belt drive.

The "Servobelt" system appeals to me. By bonding a mating belt to a
solid surface you get a good increase in stiffness, and the
interlocking teeth should be less prone to contamination.
http://www.bell-everman.com/products/linear-positioning/servobelt-linear-sbl

I am not sure if they have to use a custom belt, though.

-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Torch Height Control

[Alexander Brock]

On 09/10/2016 12:35 PM, Marius Liebenberg wrote:
> The cncprofi work very well and with no fuss. I used it many times.

I finally had time for my project again and I bought the cncprofi one. I
managed to connect it to the plasma and it seems to work (shows up and
down and it changes when I shout at the plasma operator that he should
lower / raise the torch :-)).
I tried to adapt a configuration used for a servo router but failed,
does anyone have a working configuration for a stepper router with a
plasma torch? IIRC I have LinuxCNC 2.7.0 but I'm willing to upgrade it
if necessary.

Best Regards,
Alexander



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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Torch Height Control

[Marius Liebenberg]

I have one concern about the use of serial interface for THC. The serial 
components are notoriously slow and sometimes are very far behind the 
real-time events. With THC you need very fast and in time movements. 
Unless there is an interface to the Mesa serial channels, I would be 
cautious to implement a design without proper testing as far as latency 
is concerned.

-- Original Message --
From: "Klemen Živkovič" <klemen.zivko...@gmail.com>
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
<emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
Sent: 2016-09-12 21:06:28
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Torch Height Control

>I can see some plasma machines have serial interface also (
>http://forum.robotsinarchitecture.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=232.0;attach=335).
>Also found this thread -
>https://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/27-driver-boards/21445-rs-485-with-7i76.
>Is serial plasma control over "plasma/serial" component good practice? 
>If
>yes maybe somebody knows is there already such plasma serial component 
>that
>is connected to THC component? Can somebody share or point me to 
>hal/ini
>setup in that case?
>
>regards
>Zhivko
>
>On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 7:41 PM, John Thornton <j...@gnipsel.com> wrote:
>
>>  I'd bet it does both and it may even have a output for ark ok...
>>
>>  JT
>>
>>  On 9/12/2016 8:53 AM, Alexander Brock wrote:
>>  > On 09/11/2016 04:22 PM, John Thornton wrote:
>>  >> Does is have connections to measure the tip voltage?
>>  > I'm not exactly sure, it has a connection named "CNC" and it might 
>>be
>>  > either an input for starting / stopping the cutting or an output 
>>for
>>  > measuring tip voltage.
>>  >
>>  > Best Regards,
>>  > Alexander
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > 
>>  --
>>  >
>>  >
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Torch Height Control

[Klemen Živkovič]

I can see some plasma machines have serial interface also (
http://forum.robotsinarchitecture.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=232.0;attach=335).
Also found this thread -
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/27-driver-boards/21445-rs-485-with-7i76.
Is serial plasma control over "plasma/serial" component good practice? If
yes maybe somebody knows is there already such plasma serial component that
is connected to THC component? Can somebody share or point me to hal/ini
setup in that case?

regards
Zhivko

On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 7:41 PM, John Thornton  wrote:

> I'd bet it does both and it may even have a output for ark ok...
>
> JT
>
> On 9/12/2016 8:53 AM, Alexander Brock wrote:
> > On 09/11/2016 04:22 PM, John Thornton wrote:
> >> Does is have connections to measure the tip voltage?
> > I'm not exactly sure, it has a connection named "CNC" and it might be
> > either an input for starting / stopping the cutting or an output for
> > measuring tip voltage.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Alexander
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> --
> >
> >
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> 
> --
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> traffic
> patterns at an interface-level. Reveals which users, apps, and protocols
> are
> consuming the most bandwidth. Provides multi-vendor support for NetFlow,
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Torch Height Control

[John Thornton]

I'd bet it does both and it may even have a output for ark ok...

JT

On 9/12/2016 8:53 AM, Alexander Brock wrote:
> On 09/11/2016 04:22 PM, John Thornton wrote:
>> Does is have connections to measure the tip voltage?
> I'm not exactly sure, it has a connection named "CNC" and it might be
> either an input for starting / stopping the cutting or an output for
> measuring tip voltage.
>
> Best Regards,
> Alexander
>
>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Torch Height Control

[Alexander Brock]

On 09/11/2016 04:22 PM, John Thornton wrote:
> Does is have connections to measure the tip voltage?

I'm not exactly sure, it has a connection named "CNC" and it might be
either an input for starting / stopping the cutting or an output for
measuring tip voltage.

Best Regards,
Alexander



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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Torch Height Control

[John Thornton]

Does is have connections to measure the tip voltage?

JT

On 9/10/2016 8:32 PM, Alexander Brock wrote:
> On 09/10/2016 01:21 AM, John Thornton wrote:
>> What kind of plasma torch do you have?
> This one:
>
> http://www.stamos-welding.com/s-plasma-125h
>
> Best Regards,
> Alexander
>
>
>
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>
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Torch Height Control

[Alexander Brock]

On 09/10/2016 01:21 AM, John Thornton wrote:
> What kind of plasma torch do you have?

This one:

http://www.stamos-welding.com/s-plasma-125h

Best Regards,
Alexander



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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Torch Height Control

[Marius Liebenberg]

You only need to monitor the cutting voltage of the arc.

-- Original Message --
From: "Alexander Brock" <a.br...@hhv-rheinklang.de>
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: 2016-09-10 00:59:32
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Torch Height Control


On 09/09/2016 10:58 PM, John Thornton wrote:

 Most LinuxCNC users use this one as do I.
 
http://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product=65_id=64

 or
 
http://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product=65_id=65

 depending on your plasma torch.


Thank you for your answer

I have a HF arc start with pilot arc functionality, there are 3 cables:
- thick cable for +, connected to torch
- thinn cable for pilot arc ignition, also connected to torch
- thick cable for -, connected to clamp which I attach to the material 
I

want to cut.

Do I need 2 of the AD converters to monitor cutting arc and pilot arc?
What would be an appropriate resistor to protect the THCAD?

Best Regards,
Alexander
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Torch Height Control

[Marius Liebenberg]

The cncprofi work very well and with no fuss. I used it many times.


-- Original Message --
From: "Alexander Brock" 
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 

Sent: 2016-09-09 20:57:50
Subject: [Emc-users] Plasma Torch Height Control

>Hi,
>
>I recently bought a Plasma Cutter and built a CNC router and now I want
>to add a Torch Height Control to it.
>
>I found these models, does anyone have experience with them or
>experience with other THC systems?
>
>http://www.ebay.de/itm/172288076009
>http://www.ebay.de/itm/262439946439
>http://www.cncprofi.eu/product_info.php?info=p860_profi-plasmabrenner-hoehe-controller-thc.html
>
>Best Regards,
>Alexander
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Torch Height Control

[John Thornton]

What kind of plasma torch do you have?

JT

On 9/9/2016 5:59 PM, Alexander Brock wrote:
> On 09/09/2016 10:58 PM, John Thornton wrote:
>> Most LinuxCNC users use this one as do I.
>> http://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product=65_id=64
>> or
>> http://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product=65_id=65
>> depending on your plasma torch.
> Thank you for your answer :-)
>
> I have a HF arc start with pilot arc functionality, there are 3 cables:
> - thick cable for +, connected to torch
> - thinn cable for pilot arc ignition, also connected to torch
> - thick cable for -, connected to clamp which I attach to the material I
> want to cut.
>
> Do I need 2 of the AD converters to monitor cutting arc and pilot arc?
> What would be an appropriate resistor to protect the THCAD?
>
> Best Regards,
> Alexander
>
>
>
> --
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Torch Height Control

[Alexander Brock]

On 09/09/2016 10:58 PM, John Thornton wrote:
> Most LinuxCNC users use this one as do I.
> http://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product=65_id=64
> or
> http://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product=65_id=65
> depending on your plasma torch.

Thank you for your answer :-)

I have a HF arc start with pilot arc functionality, there are 3 cables:
- thick cable for +, connected to torch
- thinn cable for pilot arc ignition, also connected to torch
- thick cable for -, connected to clamp which I attach to the material I
want to cut.

Do I need 2 of the AD converters to monitor cutting arc and pilot arc?
What would be an appropriate resistor to protect the THCAD?

Best Regards,
Alexander



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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Torch Height Control

[John Thornton]

Most LinuxCNC users use this one as do I.
http://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product=65_id=64
or
http://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product=65_id=65
depending on your plasma torch.

JT


On 9/9/2016 1:57 PM, Alexander Brock wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I recently bought a Plasma Cutter and built a CNC router and now I want
> to add a Torch Height Control to it.
>
> I found these models, does anyone have experience with them or
> experience with other THC systems?
>
> http://www.ebay.de/itm/172288076009
> http://www.ebay.de/itm/262439946439
> http://www.cncprofi.eu/product_info.php?info=p860_profi-plasmabrenner-hoehe-controller-thc.html
>
> Best Regards,
> Alexander
>
>
>
> --
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Mistake

[Marius Liebenberg]

Jim
The filter actually goes on the plasma arc voltage. It is filtered and 
reduced and rectified. Then it does not matter what happens to the torch 
and the earth clamp.
One thing that most people do not realize is that the plasma arc is at 
negative potential to earth. So the earth clamp is really the positive 
terminal and the arc voltage is the negative terminal.

-- Original Message --
From: "Jim Craig" <jimcraig5...@windstream.net>
To: "Marius Liebenberg" <mar...@mastercut.co.za>; "Enhanced Machine 
Controller (EMC)" <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
Sent: 2016-05-20 16:47:29
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Mistake

>Marius,
>
>That may be some good advice there. As it turns out the only items that 
>were fried were items that were powered by the 5V wall wart power 
>supply. This may be coincidence but it may not be either.
>
>The stepper drives survived as they are powered by a switching power 
>supply which I assume already has the HF filter built in.
>
>The computer also survived but we may want to switch to a UPC instead 
>of a power switch for further protection.
>
>I would need to put the HF filter prior to the 5V power supply. I 
>actually happen to have one of them laying around from a previous 
>project. Would the wall wart be sufficient on the other side of the HF 
>filter or should we find another power supply for our 5V needs?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jim
>
>
>
>On 5/20/2016 9:12 AM, Marius Liebenberg wrote:
>>This is the reason that I prefer a proper input filter network that
>>will make sure that things stay in tact even with the earth clamp not
>>connected. I have done that many times and never broke any 
>>electronics.
>>
>>The circuit has a HF filter (pie) and a divider as well as a 
>>rectifier.
>>Then you connect your stuff to this filter and the polarity is always
>>correct and can be referenced to the circuit ground.
>>
>>
>>-- Original Message --
>>From: "Jim Craig" <jimcraig5...@windstream.net>
>>To: "emc-users" <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
>>Sent: 2016-05-19 15:13:32
>>Subject: [Emc-users] Plasma Mistake
>>
>>>So my goal is to let others learn from my mistakes. So in that way I
>>>tend to make a lot of them so everyone can benefit. Last night I was
>>>working with the plasma machine and made a big one!
>>>
>>>Don't ever forget to hook up the ground to the plasma cutter!
>>>
>>>When we hit the go button the program started. The torch found the
>>>material. The pilot arc started and BAM everything stopped. Realtime
>>>error in LinuxCNC. Cleared repowered the machine and nothing would
>>>still
>>>work. That is when I realized the ground clamp was not on the cutting
>>>table.
>>>
>>>It took out the two breakout boards and the mesa THCAD-10 board.
>>>Everything else seems to have survived. I replaced one of the 
>>>breakout
>>>boards to see what all was damaged. The parallel ports are still
>>>working
>>>and the stepper drives are still working so the damage was limited.
>>>
>>>So this serves as a warning to anyone that is using a plasma CNC
>>>machine.
>>>
>>>My next question is what can I do in LinuxCNC to get a message box 
>>>each
>>>time a program is being started to check the plasma ground. This will
>>>help to mitigate this problem in the future.
>>>
>>>If there is no way to do it in LinuxCNC then I will add a piece of 
>>>code
>>>to the post processor we use in Fusion360 to add the message and a
>>>program pause in the initial preamble of the file.
>>>
>>>John T., I ordered a replacement THCAD-10 this morning. I just want 
>>>to
>>>thank you for the simple privacy statement on your website. I think 
>>>you
>>>should change your terms to be "You pay me, I ship you stuff!"
>>>
>>>Thanks and be warned!
>>>
>>>Jim C.
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees 
>>>who
>>>bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of
>>>MDM
>>>restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only 
>>>the
>>>apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data
>>>untouched!
>>>https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
>>>

Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Mistake

[Ralph Stirling]

You could use one of the disk drive power connectors
in your PC for 5v power.
-- Ralph

From: Jim Craig [jimcraig5...@windstream.net]
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2016 7:47 AM
To: Marius Liebenberg; Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Mistake

Marius,

That may be some good advice there. As it turns out the only items that
were fried were items that were powered by the 5V wall wart power
supply. This may be coincidence but it may not be either.

The stepper drives survived as they are powered by a switching power
supply which I assume already has the HF filter built in.

The computer also survived but we may want to switch to a UPC instead of
a power switch for further protection.

I would need to put the HF filter prior to the 5V power supply. I
actually happen to have one of them laying around from a previous
project. Would the wall wart be sufficient on the other side of the HF
filter or should we find another power supply for our 5V needs?

Thanks,

Jim



On 5/20/2016 9:12 AM, Marius Liebenberg wrote:
>This is the reason that I prefer a proper input filter network that
> will make sure that things stay in tact even with the earth clamp not
> connected. I have done that many times and never broke any electronics.
>
> The circuit has a HF filter (pie) and a divider as well as a rectifier.
> Then you connect your stuff to this filter and the polarity is always
> correct and can be referenced to the circuit ground.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Jim Craig" <jimcraig5...@windstream.net>
> To: "emc-users" <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
> Sent: 2016-05-19 15:13:32
> Subject: [Emc-users] Plasma Mistake
>
>> So my goal is to let others learn from my mistakes. So in that way I
>> tend to make a lot of them so everyone can benefit. Last night I was
>> working with the plasma machine and made a big one!
>>
>> Don't ever forget to hook up the ground to the plasma cutter!
>>
>> When we hit the go button the program started. The torch found the
>> material. The pilot arc started and BAM everything stopped. Realtime
>> error in LinuxCNC. Cleared repowered the machine and nothing would
>> still
>> work. That is when I realized the ground clamp was not on the cutting
>> table.
>>
>> It took out the two breakout boards and the mesa THCAD-10 board.
>> Everything else seems to have survived. I replaced one of the breakout
>> boards to see what all was damaged. The parallel ports are still
>> working
>> and the stepper drives are still working so the damage was limited.
>>
>> So this serves as a warning to anyone that is using a plasma CNC
>> machine.
>>
>> My next question is what can I do in LinuxCNC to get a message box each
>> time a program is being started to check the plasma ground. This will
>> help to mitigate this problem in the future.
>>
>> If there is no way to do it in LinuxCNC then I will add a piece of code
>> to the post processor we use in Fusion360 to add the message and a
>> program pause in the initial preamble of the file.
>>
>> John T., I ordered a replacement THCAD-10 this morning. I just want to
>> thank you for the simple privacy statement on your website. I think you
>> should change your terms to be "You pay me, I ship you stuff!"
>>
>> Thanks and be warned!
>>
>> Jim C.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
>> bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of
>> MDM
>> restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
>> apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data
>> untouched!
>> https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
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> bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
> restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
> apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
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---

Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Mistake

[Jim Craig]

Marius,

That may be some good advice there. As it turns out the only items that 
were fried were items that were powered by the 5V wall wart power 
supply. This may be coincidence but it may not be either.

The stepper drives survived as they are powered by a switching power 
supply which I assume already has the HF filter built in.

The computer also survived but we may want to switch to a UPC instead of 
a power switch for further protection.

I would need to put the HF filter prior to the 5V power supply. I 
actually happen to have one of them laying around from a previous 
project. Would the wall wart be sufficient on the other side of the HF 
filter or should we find another power supply for our 5V needs?

Thanks,

Jim



On 5/20/2016 9:12 AM, Marius Liebenberg wrote:
>This is the reason that I prefer a proper input filter network that
> will make sure that things stay in tact even with the earth clamp not
> connected. I have done that many times and never broke any electronics.
>
> The circuit has a HF filter (pie) and a divider as well as a rectifier.
> Then you connect your stuff to this filter and the polarity is always
> correct and can be referenced to the circuit ground.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Jim Craig" 
> To: "emc-users" 
> Sent: 2016-05-19 15:13:32
> Subject: [Emc-users] Plasma Mistake
>
>> So my goal is to let others learn from my mistakes. So in that way I
>> tend to make a lot of them so everyone can benefit. Last night I was
>> working with the plasma machine and made a big one!
>>
>> Don't ever forget to hook up the ground to the plasma cutter!
>>
>> When we hit the go button the program started. The torch found the
>> material. The pilot arc started and BAM everything stopped. Realtime
>> error in LinuxCNC. Cleared repowered the machine and nothing would
>> still
>> work. That is when I realized the ground clamp was not on the cutting
>> table.
>>
>> It took out the two breakout boards and the mesa THCAD-10 board.
>> Everything else seems to have survived. I replaced one of the breakout
>> boards to see what all was damaged. The parallel ports are still
>> working
>> and the stepper drives are still working so the damage was limited.
>>
>> So this serves as a warning to anyone that is using a plasma CNC
>> machine.
>>
>> My next question is what can I do in LinuxCNC to get a message box each
>> time a program is being started to check the plasma ground. This will
>> help to mitigate this problem in the future.
>>
>> If there is no way to do it in LinuxCNC then I will add a piece of code
>> to the post processor we use in Fusion360 to add the message and a
>> program pause in the initial preamble of the file.
>>
>> John T., I ordered a replacement THCAD-10 this morning. I just want to
>> thank you for the simple privacy statement on your website. I think you
>> should change your terms to be "You pay me, I ship you stuff!"
>>
>> Thanks and be warned!
>>
>> Jim C.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
>> bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of
>> MDM
>> restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
>> apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data
>> untouched!
>> https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
>> ___
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>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> --
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> bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
> restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
> apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Mistake

[Marius Liebenberg]

  This is the reason that I prefer a proper input filter network that 
will make sure that things stay in tact even with the earth clamp not 
connected. I have done that many times and never broke any electronics.

The circuit has a HF filter (pie) and a divider as well as a rectifier. 
Then you connect your stuff to this filter and the polarity is always 
correct and can be referenced to the circuit ground.


-- Original Message --
From: "Jim Craig" 
To: "emc-users" 
Sent: 2016-05-19 15:13:32
Subject: [Emc-users] Plasma Mistake

>So my goal is to let others learn from my mistakes. So in that way I
>tend to make a lot of them so everyone can benefit. Last night I was
>working with the plasma machine and made a big one!
>
>Don't ever forget to hook up the ground to the plasma cutter!
>
>When we hit the go button the program started. The torch found the
>material. The pilot arc started and BAM everything stopped. Realtime
>error in LinuxCNC. Cleared repowered the machine and nothing would 
>still
>work. That is when I realized the ground clamp was not on the cutting
>table.
>
>It took out the two breakout boards and the mesa THCAD-10 board.
>Everything else seems to have survived. I replaced one of the breakout
>boards to see what all was damaged. The parallel ports are still 
>working
>and the stepper drives are still working so the damage was limited.
>
>So this serves as a warning to anyone that is using a plasma CNC 
>machine.
>
>My next question is what can I do in LinuxCNC to get a message box each
>time a program is being started to check the plasma ground. This will
>help to mitigate this problem in the future.
>
>If there is no way to do it in LinuxCNC then I will add a piece of code
>to the post processor we use in Fusion360 to add the message and a
>program pause in the initial preamble of the file.
>
>John T., I ordered a replacement THCAD-10 this morning. I just want to
>thank you for the simple privacy statement on your website. I think you
>should change your terms to be "You pay me, I ship you stuff!"
>
>Thanks and be warned!
>
>Jim C.
>
>
>--
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>bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of 
>MDM
>restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
>apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data 
>untouched!
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Mistake

[Lester Caine]

On 20/05/16 14:03, Jim Craig wrote:
> Anyway, Thanks everyone for the advice. We will be reviewing the 
> grounding of the whole system and adding in some friendly reminders.

I have a similar problem with DivisionMasters used to run automated arc
welding setups. Nice big earth connection between work and electronics
and care that it's actually making contact rather than insulated by
anodising or rust.

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Mistake

[andy pugh]

On 20 May 2016 at 09:03, Jim Craig  wrote:
> HA! I may do that too. Put one right over the plasma cutter power
> switch. That would be a good place.


I wonder if there is a way to wire a relay interlock?


-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Mistake

[Jim Craig]

On 5/20/2016 1:28 AM, Gregg Eshelman wrote:
> It would be easier to put a large sign below the control computer's screen, 
> and signs on/around the table. CHECK GROUND CLAMP!
>
>   
HA! I may do that too. Put one right over the plasma cutter power 
switch. That would be a good place.

Anyway, Thanks everyone for the advice. We will be reviewing the 
grounding of the whole system and adding in some friendly reminders.

Thanks again.


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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Mistake

[Gregg Eshelman]

It would be easier to put a large sign below the control computer's screen, and 
signs on/around the table. CHECK GROUND CLAMP!

 
  From: Jim Craig <jimcraig5...@windstream.net>
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> 
 Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 10:26 AM
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Mistake
   
I think in addition to the message box in the g-code file I will add a 
HAL message component that will trigger off a one shot component that is 
connected to the machine on state. This way each time the machine is 
turned on the pop up message will show up to remind the user to connect 
the ground. (just in case as I am a forgetful dummy).
   
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Mistake

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 19 May 2016 12:26:53 Jim Craig wrote:

> I think in addition to the message box in the g-code file I will add a
> HAL message component that will trigger off a one shot component that
> is connected to the machine on state. This way each time the machine
> is turned on the pop up message will show up to remind the user to
> connect the ground. (just in case as I am a forgetful dummy).
>
> On 5/19/2016 10:57 AM, Dave Cole wrote:
> > Also, you will find out that how you put the clamp on the table will
> > affect the plasma flame "direction".   The plasma flame will point
> > somewhat in the direction of the best ground.
> > If you clip it on one leg and the other legs and supports are not
> > well connected you will see the effects of the poor ground path in
> > your cuts.  The way you ground a plasma table is really important.
> >
> > Dave
>
> The ground is normally placed on the grid in the water table. This
> gets the ground as close to the part as possible and creating a
> distributed ground grid under the plate being cut. What is the
> suggested best method to ground the table to the plasma cutter to
> prevent the directional arcing?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim

This is a bit of a puzzle.  First, connecting to the support grid is 
guaranteed to be a poor ground, as that will have to spot weld itself at 
someplace where the work is laying on the grid.  With the oxide coatings 
present on 99% of the metal that goes under the torch, its going to be a 
hit & occasionally miss problem.

Connecting the end of the star to the grid is OK, but from the grid to 
workpiece, I think I'd go get 4 small c-clamps, weld or bolt a 9 or 10" 
ground cable to them, bolting the cable to a handy place on the grid so 
that you can pick the clamps up and put one at each corner of the 
workpiece.  Screwed to about 1/4 turn from broke, that should give you a 
good, very low ohms ground.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Mistake

[Jim Craig]

I think in addition to the message box in the g-code file I will add a 
HAL message component that will trigger off a one shot component that is 
connected to the machine on state. This way each time the machine is 
turned on the pop up message will show up to remind the user to connect 
the ground. (just in case as I am a forgetful dummy).

On 5/19/2016 10:57 AM, Dave Cole wrote:
> Also, you will find out that how you put the clamp on the table will
> affect the plasma flame "direction".   The plasma flame will point
> somewhat in the direction of the best ground.
> If you clip it on one leg and the other legs and supports are not well
> connected you will see the effects of the poor ground path in your
> cuts.  The way you ground a plasma table is really important.
>
> Dave
>
The ground is normally placed on the grid in the water table. This gets 
the ground as close to the part as possible and creating a distributed 
ground grid under the plate being cut. What is the suggested best method 
to ground the table to the plasma cutter to prevent the directional arcing?

Thanks,

Jim

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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Mistake

[Dave Cole]

If you want to keep using the ground clamp as is I'd order two sets 
of parts from John...  :-)  You won't need them next week or two weeks 
from now..   Just as soon as the memory of this fades a bit.

Also, you will find out that how you put the clamp on the table will 
affect the plasma flame "direction".   The plasma flame will point 
somewhat in the direction of the best ground.
If you clip it on one leg and the other legs and supports are not well 
connected you will see the effects of the poor ground path in your 
cuts.  The way you ground a plasma table is really important.

Dave

On 5/19/2016 11:35 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
> On 05/19/2016 08:13 AM, Jim Craig wrote:
>> Don't ever forget to hook up the ground to the plasma cutter!
>>
>>
> One suggestion is to run an EXTRA ground cable from the
> plasma power supply to the machine table.  Not the base of
> the frame, but the actual table the work sits on, if that
> moves.  This would prevent most of the damage if you ever
> forget again (probably won't happen for a long while!)
>
> Jon
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Mistake

[Jon Elson]

On 05/19/2016 08:13 AM, Jim Craig wrote:
>
> Don't ever forget to hook up the ground to the plasma cutter!
>
>
One suggestion is to run an EXTRA ground cable from the 
plasma power supply to the machine table.  Not the base of 
the frame, but the actual table the work sits on, if that 
moves.  This would prevent most of the damage if you ever 
forget again (probably won't happen for a long while!)

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Mistake

[andy pugh]

On 19 May 2016 at 10:16, Jim Craig  wrote:
> In this situation the plasma cutter unit is used on the CNC machine as
> well as as a manual hand cutter. So the clamp remains to be universal.

Put a permanent bolt-on lug in the _middle_ of the ground lead then.

-- 
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lunatics."
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Mistake

[Jim Craig]

John,

In this situation the plasma cutter unit is used on the CNC machine as 
well as as a manual hand cutter. So the clamp remains to be universal. 
It is trivial to switch between use on the CNC table or as a manual hand 
cutter, as long as you don't forget the ground clamp.

Jim


On 5/19/2016 9:02 AM, John Kasunich wrote:
> One question:  Why do you have a ground "clamp".
>
> A CNC plasma is a more-or-less permanent installation.  Put a lug on that
> ground cable and bolt it to the machine table/frame.
>
>


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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Mistake --> Ground

[Nicklas Karlsson]

To get a working usually involve exploring there others.

If ground clamp of plasma cutter must be checked every time problems could be 
expected every now and then. It is possible to mitigate with proper procedures 
as is done for air safety and it work most of the time although it cost money. 
They got it to work with nitroglycerin once upon a time but dynamite is 
preferred. It will probably be hard to get procedure compliance then there are 
no real danger.


On Thu, 19 May 2016 08:13:32 -0500
Jim Craig  wrote:

> So my goal is to let others learn from my mistakes. So in that way I 
> tend to make a lot of them so everyone can benefit. Last night I was 
> working with the plasma machine and made a big one!
> 
> Don't ever forget to hook up the ground to the plasma cutter!
> 
> When we hit the go button the program started. The torch found the 
> material. The pilot arc started and BAM everything stopped. Realtime 
> error in LinuxCNC. Cleared repowered the machine and nothing would still 
> work. That is when I realized the ground clamp was not on the cutting 
> table.
> 
> It took out the two breakout boards and the mesa THCAD-10 board. 
> Everything else seems to have survived. I replaced one of the breakout 
> boards to see what all was damaged. The parallel ports are still working 
> and the stepper drives are still working so the damage was limited.
> 
> So this serves as a warning to anyone that is using a plasma CNC machine.
> 
> My next question is what can I do in LinuxCNC to get a message box each 
> time a program is being started to check the plasma ground. This will 
> help to mitigate this problem in the future.
> 
> If there is no way to do it in LinuxCNC then I will add a piece of code 
> to the post processor we use in Fusion360 to add the message and a 
> program pause in the initial preamble of the file.
> 
> John T., I ordered a replacement THCAD-10 this morning. I just want to 
> thank you for the simple privacy statement on your website. I think you 
> should change your terms to be "You pay me, I ship you stuff!"
> 
> Thanks and be warned!
> 
> Jim C.
> 
> 
> --
> Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
> bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
> restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
> apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
> https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Mistake

[John Kasunich]

On Thu, May 19, 2016, at 09:13 AM, Jim Craig wrote:
> So my goal is to let others learn from my mistakes. So in that way I 
> tend to make a lot of them so everyone can benefit. Last night I was 
> working with the plasma machine and made a big one!
> 
> Don't ever forget to hook up the ground to the plasma cutter!
> 
> When we hit the go button the program started. The torch found the 
> material. The pilot arc started and BAM everything stopped. Realtime 
> error in LinuxCNC. Cleared repowered the machine and nothing would still 
> work. That is when I realized the ground clamp was not on the cutting 
> table.

One question:  Why do you have a ground "clamp".

A CNC plasma is a more-or-less permanent installation.  Put a lug on that
ground cable and bolt it to the machine table/frame.


-- 
  John Kasunich
  jmkasun...@fastmail.fm

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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Mistake

[Jim Craig]

Les,

Thanks for the info. We were rethinking the machine grounding last 
night. We will look into it further when we are putting it back together.

Thanks again,

Jim

On 5/19/2016 8:28 AM, Les Newell wrote:
> Hi Jim,
>
> There are a few precautions you can take so forgetting to clamp the
> ground doesn't destroy your electronics. First use a star ground. Weld a
> bolt to the frame of your machine and connect that to your supply mains
> earth. Now make sure the mains earth for your computer and plasma cutter
> also connect to the same point. You don't want any loops, just direct
> connections straight to this single point.
>
> Second make sure none of your electronics have any connection to the
> frame of the machine. Cable screens etc should be isolated from the
> frame. The only connection should be that star point earth.
>
> Les
>
> On 19/05/2016 14:13, Jim Craig wrote:
>> So my goal is to let others learn from my mistakes. So in that way I
>> tend to make a lot of them so everyone can benefit. Last night I was
>> working with the plasma machine and made a big one!
>>
>> Don't ever forget to hook up the ground to the plasma cutter!
>>
>> When we hit the go button the program started. The torch found the
>> material. The pilot arc started and BAM everything stopped. Realtime
>> error in LinuxCNC. Cleared repowered the machine and nothing would still
>> work. That is when I realized the ground clamp was not on the cutting
>> table.
>>
>> It took out the two breakout boards and the mesa THCAD-10 board.
>> Everything else seems to have survived. I replaced one of the breakout
>> boards to see what all was damaged. The parallel ports are still working
>> and the stepper drives are still working so the damage was limited.
>>
>> So this serves as a warning to anyone that is using a plasma CNC machine.
>>
>> My next question is what can I do in LinuxCNC to get a message box each
>> time a program is being started to check the plasma ground. This will
>> help to mitigate this problem in the future.
>>
>> If there is no way to do it in LinuxCNC then I will add a piece of code
>> to the post processor we use in Fusion360 to add the message and a
>> program pause in the initial preamble of the file.
>>
>> John T., I ordered a replacement THCAD-10 this morning. I just want to
>> thank you for the simple privacy statement on your website. I think you
>> should change your terms to be "You pay me, I ship you stuff!"
>>
>> Thanks and be warned!
>>
>> Jim C.
>>
>
> --
> Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
> bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
> restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
> apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
> https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
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>


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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Mistake

[Les Newell]

Hi Jim,

There are a few precautions you can take so forgetting to clamp the 
ground doesn't destroy your electronics. First use a star ground. Weld a 
bolt to the frame of your machine and connect that to your supply mains 
earth. Now make sure the mains earth for your computer and plasma cutter 
also connect to the same point. You don't want any loops, just direct 
connections straight to this single point.

Second make sure none of your electronics have any connection to the 
frame of the machine. Cable screens etc should be isolated from the 
frame. The only connection should be that star point earth.

Les

On 19/05/2016 14:13, Jim Craig wrote:
> So my goal is to let others learn from my mistakes. So in that way I
> tend to make a lot of them so everyone can benefit. Last night I was
> working with the plasma machine and made a big one!
>
> Don't ever forget to hook up the ground to the plasma cutter!
>
> When we hit the go button the program started. The torch found the
> material. The pilot arc started and BAM everything stopped. Realtime
> error in LinuxCNC. Cleared repowered the machine and nothing would still
> work. That is when I realized the ground clamp was not on the cutting
> table.
>
> It took out the two breakout boards and the mesa THCAD-10 board.
> Everything else seems to have survived. I replaced one of the breakout
> boards to see what all was damaged. The parallel ports are still working
> and the stepper drives are still working so the damage was limited.
>
> So this serves as a warning to anyone that is using a plasma CNC machine.
>
> My next question is what can I do in LinuxCNC to get a message box each
> time a program is being started to check the plasma ground. This will
> help to mitigate this problem in the future.
>
> If there is no way to do it in LinuxCNC then I will add a piece of code
> to the post processor we use in Fusion360 to add the message and a
> program pause in the initial preamble of the file.
>
> John T., I ordered a replacement THCAD-10 this morning. I just want to
> thank you for the simple privacy statement on your website. I think you
> should change your terms to be "You pay me, I ship you stuff!"
>
> Thanks and be warned!
>
> Jim C.
>


--
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Mistake

[Jim Craig]

I think I will use the following:

(msg, HEY STUPID IDIOT, CHECK GROUND CLAMP!!!)
M0

Thanks John,

Jim

On 5/19/2016 8:35 AM, John Thornton wrote:
> Thanks, in your G code put:
>
> (msg, CHECK GROUND CLAMP)
> M0
>
> JT
>
>
> On 5/19/2016 8:13 AM, Jim Craig wrote:
>> So my goal is to let others learn from my mistakes. So in that way I
>> tend to make a lot of them so everyone can benefit. Last night I was
>> working with the plasma machine and made a big one!
>>
>> Don't ever forget to hook up the ground to the plasma cutter!
>>
>> When we hit the go button the program started. The torch found the
>> material. The pilot arc started and BAM everything stopped. Realtime
>> error in LinuxCNC. Cleared repowered the machine and nothing would still
>> work. That is when I realized the ground clamp was not on the cutting
>> table.
>>
>> It took out the two breakout boards and the mesa THCAD-10 board.
>> Everything else seems to have survived. I replaced one of the breakout
>> boards to see what all was damaged. The parallel ports are still working
>> and the stepper drives are still working so the damage was limited.
>>
>> So this serves as a warning to anyone that is using a plasma CNC machine.
>>
>> My next question is what can I do in LinuxCNC to get a message box each
>> time a program is being started to check the plasma ground. This will
>> help to mitigate this problem in the future.
>>
>> If there is no way to do it in LinuxCNC then I will add a piece of code
>> to the post processor we use in Fusion360 to add the message and a
>> program pause in the initial preamble of the file.
>>
>> John T., I ordered a replacement THCAD-10 this morning. I just want to
>> thank you for the simple privacy statement on your website. I think you
>> should change your terms to be "You pay me, I ship you stuff!"
>>
>> Thanks and be warned!
>>
>> Jim C.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
>> bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
>> restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
>> apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
>> https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> --
> Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
> bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
> restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
> apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
> https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
> ___
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>


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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Mistake

[John Thornton]

Thanks, in your G code put:

(msg, CHECK GROUND CLAMP)
M0

JT


On 5/19/2016 8:13 AM, Jim Craig wrote:
> So my goal is to let others learn from my mistakes. So in that way I
> tend to make a lot of them so everyone can benefit. Last night I was
> working with the plasma machine and made a big one!
>
> Don't ever forget to hook up the ground to the plasma cutter!
>
> When we hit the go button the program started. The torch found the
> material. The pilot arc started and BAM everything stopped. Realtime
> error in LinuxCNC. Cleared repowered the machine and nothing would still
> work. That is when I realized the ground clamp was not on the cutting
> table.
>
> It took out the two breakout boards and the mesa THCAD-10 board.
> Everything else seems to have survived. I replaced one of the breakout
> boards to see what all was damaged. The parallel ports are still working
> and the stepper drives are still working so the damage was limited.
>
> So this serves as a warning to anyone that is using a plasma CNC machine.
>
> My next question is what can I do in LinuxCNC to get a message box each
> time a program is being started to check the plasma ground. This will
> help to mitigate this problem in the future.
>
> If there is no way to do it in LinuxCNC then I will add a piece of code
> to the post processor we use in Fusion360 to add the message and a
> program pause in the initial preamble of the file.
>
> John T., I ordered a replacement THCAD-10 this morning. I just want to
> thank you for the simple privacy statement on your website. I think you
> should change your terms to be "You pay me, I ship you stuff!"
>
> Thanks and be warned!
>
> Jim C.
>
>
> --
> Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
> bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
> restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
> apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
> https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
> ___
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma torch for cnc machine

[a k]

Hi
 i am building cnc plasma table.
it is CNC gantry type machine with plasma head.
I want to ask about Jasic Air Plasma machine.
how you start stop plasma - ?
because i need to it be controlled with CNC controller
Did anyone used Jasic Air Plasma machine with CNC - EMC2 controller?

thank you
aram



On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 7:31 AM, Dave Cole linuxcncro...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 4/15/2014 6:20 AM, David Armstrong wrote:
  On 15/04/14 10:59, Viesturs Lācis wrote:
  Hello!
 
  I was thinking about a plasma source like this:
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/251355364995
 
  It is supplied with a torch that is meant for manual operation - the
  problem is that it is angled, not straight, which makes it not only more
  difficult to mount, but also takes up more space and also does not look
  that nice.
 
  I found a torch, whose description says that it is suitable for the
  previously mentioned plasma source:
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/151167833644
 
  The second picture of that listing seems somewhat suspicious - I do not
  see, where the power cable lead should be connected. There is one small
  connector visible, but that certainly is not capable of 100A current.
 
  I would appreciate any advices or links, how other plasma users have
 solved
  this issue.
  Thanks in advance!
 
  Viesturs
 
 --
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  Yes i'd agree it does look not capable of 100A , however they do work
  quite well , Although i'd realy rate them
  at about 60A Max , i have 2 running at 45A and they work fine
 
  i have been tempted just to tear the case off and make my own to suit
  the z Axis and make it more integral to the machine
  but not got around to it as yet .
 
  i'd class these as a Hobbist level , rather than a proffesional torch
  capable of many hours
 
  Dave

 Viesturs,

 Looks like you need to take apart your old manual torch head and attach
 this head.  I see two setscrews in the back of the automatic torch head
 which are likely cable clamps for the power cable lead.

 I have a Cut 60 plasma setup which works ok.   Cuts 1 manually without
 a problem.

 Looks like the Cut100 requires 3 phase power.

 Dave





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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma torch for cnc machine

[Viesturs Lācis]

2014-05-02 11:54 GMT+03:00 a k pccncmach...@gmail.com:

 I want to ask about Jasic Air Plasma machine.
 how you start stop plasma - ?
 because i need to it be controlled with CNC controller


That is very simple - replace the manual button with something that is
controlled by cnc controller - either a relay switch or anything else
(optocoupler etc), depending on what kind of signal is going through those
wires. In the welding robot there was a manual MIG welder, which  had 8 V
AC in the control button wires, so it took 2 output drivers on Mesa 7i37 to
handle the AC part, while 8 V was much less of a problem.

Viesturs
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma torch for cnc machine

[a k]

hi
Viesturs
who is distribute in USA Jasic or similar plasma cutters?
Do you have contact number?
Is Jasic plasma durable - working good?

thank you
aram


On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 5:07 AM, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.comwrote:

 2014-05-02 11:54 GMT+03:00 a k pccncmach...@gmail.com:

  I want to ask about Jasic Air Plasma machine.
  how you start stop plasma - ?
  because i need to it be controlled with CNC controller
 

 That is very simple - replace the manual button with something that is
 controlled by cnc controller - either a relay switch or anything else
 (optocoupler etc), depending on what kind of signal is going through those
 wires. In the welding robot there was a manual MIG welder, which  had 8 V
 AC in the control button wires, so it took 2 output drivers on Mesa 7i37 to
 handle the AC part, while 8 V was much less of a problem.

 Viesturs

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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma torch for cnc machine

[Viesturs Lācis]

2014-05-02 21:28 GMT+03:00 a k pccncmach...@gmail.com:

 who is distribute in USA Jasic or similar plasma cutters?
 Do you have contact number?


Since I am Latvia, right on the opposite side of the northern hemisphere
from USA, I doubt I can share anything useful :))


  Is Jasic plasma durable - working good?


One of 3 LinuxCNC users in my country that I am aware of, owns Jasic plasma
source and he recommended them to me.
I personally do not yet have any experience with them.
See few messages back in this very same thread - Dave wrote that it works
quite well.

Viesturs
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma torch for cnc machine

[jeremy youngs]

hypertherm = expensive consumables. i have a friend with one and he borrows
my harbor freight 40 amper because my consumables cost 12 bucks to replace
his are 50. i am leery of h.f tools especially at 650 bucks but alas after
8 yrs of ownership i think this is the best non commerecial plasma cutter
available and definitely the cheapest to run . the torch is a high quality
trafimet. my friend the other day told me if he could sell his ( original
cost of 1200 bucks ) for what an hf unit costs (650) he would do it
immediately. as to the esabs in  a similar price range you get no pilot arc
feature and again high consumable costs. i pondered the purchase for about
2 months going to hf 3 times and reviewing the product. i believe this to
be the single best buy at harbor freight period. yes im a bit proud about
this but after 8 yrs my concerns are no more and this has proven to be an
excellent buy and ovbiously i would not hesitate to recommend one or
replace mine with another if it gave in the ghost tomorrow with another
just like it . well thats my .02 hope it helps



jeremy youngs


On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 10:05 AM, Roland Jollivet
roland.jolli...@gmail.comwrote:

 Have a look at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4knPtYjc2s8. I don't
 know if it's just good advertising, but I'd like one..

 You also need to be aware of the 'start' methodology. HF noise etc.
 But from what I've read, you won't go wrong with Hypertherm.

 Roland




 On 15 April 2014 11:59, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote:

  Hello!
 
  I was thinking about a plasma source like this:
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/251355364995
 
  It is supplied with a torch that is meant for manual operation - the
  problem is that it is angled, not straight, which makes it not only more
  difficult to mount, but also takes up more space and also does not look
  that nice.
 
  I found a torch, whose description says that it is suitable for the
  previously mentioned plasma source:
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/151167833644
 
  The second picture of that listing seems somewhat suspicious - I do not
  see, where the power cable lead should be connected. There is one small
  connector visible, but that certainly is not capable of 100A current.
 
  I would appreciate any advices or links, how other plasma users have
 solved
  this issue.
  Thanks in advance!
 
  Viesturs
 
 
 --
  Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
  Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and
 their
  applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
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  http://p.sf.net/sfu/NeoTech
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma torch for cnc machine

[David Armstrong]

On 15/04/14 10:59, Viesturs Lācis wrote:
 Hello!

 I was thinking about a plasma source like this:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/251355364995

 It is supplied with a torch that is meant for manual operation - the
 problem is that it is angled, not straight, which makes it not only more
 difficult to mount, but also takes up more space and also does not look
 that nice.

 I found a torch, whose description says that it is suitable for the
 previously mentioned plasma source:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/151167833644

 The second picture of that listing seems somewhat suspicious - I do not
 see, where the power cable lead should be connected. There is one small
 connector visible, but that certainly is not capable of 100A current.

 I would appreciate any advices or links, how other plasma users have solved
 this issue.
 Thanks in advance!

 Viesturs
 --
 Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
 Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
 applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
 this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
 http://p.sf.net/sfu/NeoTech
 ___
 Emc-users mailing list
 Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



Yes i'd agree it does look not capable of 100A , however they do work 
quite well , Although i'd realy rate them
at about 60A Max , i have 2 running at 45A and they work fine

i have been tempted just to tear the case off and make my own to suit 
the z Axis and make it more integral to the machine
but not got around to it as yet .

i'd class these as a Hobbist level , rather than a proffesional torch 
capable of many hours

Dave






--
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Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma torch for cnc machine

[Dave Cole]

On 4/15/2014 6:20 AM, David Armstrong wrote:
 On 15/04/14 10:59, Viesturs Lācis wrote:
 Hello!

 I was thinking about a plasma source like this:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/251355364995

 It is supplied with a torch that is meant for manual operation - the
 problem is that it is angled, not straight, which makes it not only more
 difficult to mount, but also takes up more space and also does not look
 that nice.

 I found a torch, whose description says that it is suitable for the
 previously mentioned plasma source:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/151167833644

 The second picture of that listing seems somewhat suspicious - I do not
 see, where the power cable lead should be connected. There is one small
 connector visible, but that certainly is not capable of 100A current.

 I would appreciate any advices or links, how other plasma users have solved
 this issue.
 Thanks in advance!

 Viesturs
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 Yes i'd agree it does look not capable of 100A , however they do work
 quite well , Although i'd realy rate them
 at about 60A Max , i have 2 running at 45A and they work fine

 i have been tempted just to tear the case off and make my own to suit
 the z Axis and make it more integral to the machine
 but not got around to it as yet .

 i'd class these as a Hobbist level , rather than a proffesional torch
 capable of many hours

 Dave

Viesturs,

Looks like you need to take apart your old manual torch head and attach 
this head.  I see two setscrews in the back of the automatic torch head 
which are likely cable clamps for the power cable lead.

I have a Cut 60 plasma setup which works ok.   Cuts 1 manually without 
a problem.

Looks like the Cut100 requires 3 phase power.

Dave




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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Table

[Marius Liebenberg]

Jack
In this case Google is your friend. There are literally thousands of 
ideas from guys who have done their own thing. Two things I recommend 
that you don't do without.
1: You must fit a THC of sorts. Especially if you are going to cut 
thinner materials.
2: You must fit a water bed for your own health's sake. Also you can 
minimize the warping if you cut in water.

Do a table that can cut a full sheet. The cost will not be that much 
more. Most of the cost goes into the linear devices and the control 
system (drivers, motors etc)


On 2013/09/06 04:47 AM, Jack Coats wrote:
 Has anyone done a DIY plasma table, or have suggestions I could find
 out about a DIY version?

 I am a rookie and just learning, wanting to find out if it could be
 practical for a hobby setup.

 TIA, Jack

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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Table

[Viesturs Lācis]

2013/9/6 Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za

 Jack
 In this case Google is your friend. There are literally thousands of
 ideas from guys who have done their own thing. Two things I recommend
 that you don't do without.
 1: You must fit a THC of sorts. Especially if you are going to cut
 thinner materials.


This is easy and cost effective with THCAD card from Mesa.

2: You must fit a water bed for your own health's sake. Also you can
 minimize the warping if you cut in water.


Cutting in water will harden the material.
But I do agree that some kind of smoke removal is mandatory. Based on
geographical location and temperatures in winter, downdraft table and
simple ventilator that sucks the smoke and gases out of the workshop might
be a solution.

There are _lots_ of videos on youtube, where one can see, how others have
built their diy plasma machines. Since the question is about hints of
mechanical design, all the builds of Mach users also might worth looking at.
I did build a plasma table with 6x2 m work envelope with a downdraft table,
I could share something from the 3d model, but I consider it to be above
hobby level in terms of linear rails, motors, gearboxes, so I am not sure,
how useful could that be.

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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Table

[Gregg Eshelman]

On Thu, 9/5/13, Jack Coats j...@coats.org wrote:

 Subject: [Emc-users] Plasma Table
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Date: Thursday, September 5, 2013, 8:47 PM
 
 Has anyone done a DIY plasma table,
 or have suggestions I could find
 out about a DIY version?
 
 I am a rookie and just learning, wanting to find out if it
 could be practical for a hobby setup.
 
 TIA, Jack

Lots of people have built them from scratch and saved a lot of money. I was 
going to build one for a shop here but then one evening I decided to search 
Criagslist for CNC and found a 5x10 foot Torchmate 3 for $9,000 with a Thermal 
Dynamics Cutmaster 82, so the shop owner bought that instead.

No problem, I get to use it. ;-)

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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Table

[John Thornton]

Yes, I built my own plasma table.

http://s47.photobucket.com/user/johnplctech/library/Plasma%20Cutter?sort=3page=1

In these videos I didn't have a THC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e70jdiDm7yc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knf3cPrZPrk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o84BzF90JM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlXCdfPsQUU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC1_TTlsOrM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvhvQu5Xxtk

And the latest
http://gnipsel.com/shop/plasma/plasma.xhtml

I designed the table to be 50 in X and 36 in Y and I can slide a sheet 
of up to 1/4 thick under the extruded aluminum to cut longer pieces. I 
usually get my stock in 4' x 4' so the first cuts it sticks out the 
front or rear some. I did this to save floor space. The last photos show 
the best water table position.

JT

On 9/5/2013 9:47 PM, Jack Coats wrote:
 Has anyone done a DIY plasma table, or have suggestions I could find
 out about a DIY version?

 I am a rookie and just learning, wanting to find out if it could be
 practical for a hobby setup.

 TIA, Jack

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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Table

[Marius Liebenberg]

John
I take it that you used the Mesa THCAD with your current THC comp?

On 2013/09/06 12:55 PM, John Thornton wrote:
 Yes, I built my own plasma table.

 http://s47.photobucket.com/user/johnplctech/library/Plasma%20Cutter?sort=3page=1

 In these videos I didn't have a THC
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e70jdiDm7yc
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knf3cPrZPrk
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o84BzF90JM
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlXCdfPsQUU
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC1_TTlsOrM
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvhvQu5Xxtk

 And the latest
 http://gnipsel.com/shop/plasma/plasma.xhtml

 I designed the table to be 50 in X and 36 in Y and I can slide a sheet
 of up to 1/4 thick under the extruded aluminum to cut longer pieces. I
 usually get my stock in 4' x 4' so the first cuts it sticks out the
 front or rear some. I did this to save floor space. The last photos show
 the best water table position.

 JT

 On 9/5/2013 9:47 PM, Jack Coats wrote:
 Has anyone done a DIY plasma table, or have suggestions I could find
 out about a DIY version?

 I am a rookie and just learning, wanting to find out if it could be
 practical for a hobby setup.

 TIA, Jack

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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Table

[John Thornton]

Correct my current setup is Mesa 5i25, 7i76, THCAD and Gecko 203v's with 
Nema 23 triple stack steppers.

JT

On 9/6/2013 9:34 AM, Marius Liebenberg wrote:
 John
 I take it that you used the Mesa THCAD with your current THC comp?

 On 2013/09/06 12:55 PM, John Thornton wrote:
 Yes, I built my own plasma table.

 http://s47.photobucket.com/user/johnplctech/library/Plasma%20Cutter?sort=3page=1

 In these videos I didn't have a THC
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e70jdiDm7yc
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knf3cPrZPrk
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o84BzF90JM
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlXCdfPsQUU
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC1_TTlsOrM
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvhvQu5Xxtk

 And the latest
 http://gnipsel.com/shop/plasma/plasma.xhtml

 I designed the table to be 50 in X and 36 in Y and I can slide a sheet
 of up to 1/4 thick under the extruded aluminum to cut longer pieces. I
 usually get my stock in 4' x 4' so the first cuts it sticks out the
 front or rear some. I did this to save floor space. The last photos show
 the best water table position.

 JT

 On 9/5/2013 9:47 PM, Jack Coats wrote:
 Has anyone done a DIY plasma table, or have suggestions I could find
 out about a DIY version?

 I am a rookie and just learning, wanting to find out if it could be
 practical for a hobby setup.

 TIA, Jack

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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma table

[John Stewart]

Viesturs;


On 2013-02-19, at 2:35 PM, Viesturs Lācis wrote:

 Since I posted lots of questions on this list about the plasma table I
 was building, I thought that I should share something:
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OK0hldTjnX0

Interesting! Thanks for posting the video. 

(have no experience with the MDI command/joint mode switching question - sorry)

JohnS
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Cutting on a Mill.

[Jeshua Lacock]

On Nov 6, 2012, at 6:15 AM, andy pugh wrote:

 On 6 November 2012 13:06, John Thornton bjt...@gmail.com wrote:
 Depending on the thickness you might not have enough speed to make a
 clean cut. It would cut at any speed but might be fugly. On my
 Hypertherm 1250 for example with the fine cut consumables mounted the
 cut speeds vary from 2286 mm/min to 3174 mm/min for 3.4mm down to 0.6mm
 steel.
 
 I am getting rather ahead of myself here, as the machine has yet to
 move under its own power, but with 750W motors and 5mm ballscrew pitch
 I might well be able to get up to that sort of speed.
 The travels are rather small, but possibly still useful.

And, of course he could go to high lead ballscrews if needed.

I just ordered a 32mm with 32mm lead, and a 25mm with 25mm lead...

I think ballscrews are generally available up to the diameter of the ballscrew.


Cheers,

Jeshua Lacock
Founder/Engineer
3DTOPO Incorporated
http://3DTOPO.com
Phone: 208.462.4171


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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Cutting on a Mill.

[John Thornton]

Depending on the thickness you might not have enough speed to make a 
clean cut. It would cut at any speed but might be fugly. On my 
Hypertherm 1250 for example with the fine cut consumables mounted the 
cut speeds vary from 2286 mm/min to 3174 mm/min for 3.4mm down to 0.6mm 
steel. So it depends on the thickness your cutting. On the other end of 
the stick with the 80 amp consumables and 25.4 thick steel the cut speed 
is 254mm/min.

John

On 11/6/2012 6:52 AM, andy pugh wrote:
 I have wondered if it would be possible to plasma-cut with my milling machine.
 I am generally dissuaded by the mess.
 A water table isn't really an option, as it would slosh as the table moved.
 I think I might have thought of a way round both problems. I could
 mount an arm off the end of the bed, down to near the floor. I could
 then mount a plasma torch to that arm, and put a water tray and the
 sheet to be cut on the floor next to the machine.
 Any reason that won't work?



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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Cutting on a Mill.

[andy pugh]

On 6 November 2012 13:06, John Thornton bjt...@gmail.com wrote:
 Depending on the thickness you might not have enough speed to make a
 clean cut. It would cut at any speed but might be fugly. On my
 Hypertherm 1250 for example with the fine cut consumables mounted the
 cut speeds vary from 2286 mm/min to 3174 mm/min for 3.4mm down to 0.6mm
 steel.

I am getting rather ahead of myself here, as the machine has yet to
move under its own power, but with 750W motors and 5mm ballscrew pitch
I might well be able to get up to that sort of speed.
The travels are rather small, but possibly still useful.

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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Cutting on a Mill.

[Stuart Stevenson]

No reason at all. Sounds like a very good idea.
On Nov 6, 2012 6:56 AM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:

 I have wondered if it would be possible to plasma-cut with my milling
 machine.
 I am generally dissuaded by the mess.
 A water table isn't really an option, as it would slosh as the table moved.
 I think I might have thought of a way round both problems. I could
 mount an arm off the end of the bed, down to near the floor. I could
 then mount a plasma torch to that arm, and put a water tray and the
 sheet to be cut on the floor next to the machine.
 Any reason that won't work?

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 If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma Cutting on a Mill.

[Jason Burton]

I've wondered the exact same thing. I think about the only thing that might
stop you (barring sufficient speeds) is emi crosstalk.

Interested to see you build it!
 On Nov 6, 2012 6:56 AM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:

 I have wondered if it would be possible to plasma-cut with my milling
 machine.
 I am generally dissuaded by the mess.
 A water table isn't really an option, as it would slosh as the table moved.
 I think I might have thought of a way round both problems. I could
 mount an arm off the end of the bed, down to near the floor. I could
 then mount a plasma torch to that arm, and put a water tray and the
 sheet to be cut on the floor next to the machine.
 Any reason that won't work?

 --
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 http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto


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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma cutting table by Italian defunct company CR electronics

[Stephen Dubovsky]

Igor,
How much are you asking for the plasma table?  How wide is it (outside
dimensions)?  I've got an enclosed car trailer thats approximately 8' wide
inside and Chicago (right?) isn't TOO far a drive from me.

Best,
Stephen

On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 1:34 PM, Igor Chudov ichu...@gmail.com wrote:

 I have this CNC plasma cutting table here:


 https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-AxkcI8flh4Y/UD5SJqLph1I/Bq4/onBU0q1ZvuU/s720/20120829_123101.jpg

 Supposedly, what is wrong with it is that someone stole a laptop with a USB
 key that made this table work.

 CR Electronic is an Italian company and they are out of business.

 I am wondering, realistically, what is the quickest way to bring this to
 life.

 Thanks

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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma cutting table by Italian defunct company CR electronics

[Igor Chudov]

Chuck, a flatbed quote that I got for a partial load is $1,851. We may need
to wait a couple of days for a partial load on a flatbed to get this rate.

Feel free to arrange your own shipping if you want. Please let me know asap
as to what you think about it.

630-235-6603

Igor

On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote:

 Igor Chudov wrote:
  I have this CNC plasma cutting table here:
 
 
 https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-AxkcI8flh4Y/UD5SJqLph1I/Bq4/onBU0q1ZvuU/s720/20120829_123101.jpg
 
  Supposedly, what is wrong with it is that someone stole a laptop with a
 USB
  key that made this table work.
 
  CR Electronic is an Italian company and they are out of business.
 
  I am wondering, realistically, what is the quickest way to bring this to
  life.
 
 
 Plasma cutting is not rocket science.  X, Y and torch on/off.  Maybe
 torch height control,
 but many older machines did not have it.  What motors and drives does it
 have?
 If those can be isolated, it might be easier to do a LinuxCNC retrofit
 than try to
 obtain a copy of the software and license key.

 Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma cutting table by Italian defunct company CR electronics

[Kent A. Reed]

On 8/30/2012 12:22 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
 Igor Chudov wrote:
 I have this CNC plasma cutting table here:

 ...
 Supposedly, what is wrong with it is that someone stole a laptop with a USB
 key that made this table work.

 ...

 Plasma cutting is not rocket science.  X, Y and torch on/off.  Maybe
 torch height control,
 but many older machines did not have it.  What motors and drives does it
 have?
 If those can be isolated, it might be easier to do a LinuxCNC retrofit
 than try to
 obtain a copy of the software and license key.

 Jon


Granted my experience is now more than 10 years old because I began to 
refuse to accept software that required a USB dongle to operate, but the 
software that was being so carefully protected often turned out to be 
immutable crap. Changing to LinuxCNC gets you freedom.

Besides, getting another USB dongle means you now have another dongle to 
lose or break:-)

Regards,
Kent


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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma cutting table by Italian defunct company CR electronics

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 30 August 2012 10:29:43 Kent A. Reed did opine:

 On 8/30/2012 12:22 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
  Igor Chudov wrote:
  I have this CNC plasma cutting table here:
  
  ...
  Supposedly, what is wrong with it is that someone stole a laptop with
  a USB key that made this table work.
  
  ...
  
  Plasma cutting is not rocket science.  X, Y and torch on/off.  Maybe
  torch height control,
  but many older machines did not have it.  What motors and drives does
  it have?
  If those can be isolated, it might be easier to do a LinuxCNC retrofit
  than try to
  obtain a copy of the software and license key.
  
  Jon
 
 Granted my experience is now more than 10 years old because I began to
 refuse to accept software that required a USB dongle to operate, but the
 software that was being so carefully protected often turned out to be
 immutable crap. Changing to LinuxCNC gets you freedom.
 
 Besides, getting another USB dongle means you now have another dongle to
 lose or break:-)
 
 Regards,
 Kent

I'm with Kent here.  The last time we had a dongle protected software in a 
position of importance at the tv station, it was an A/B Roll editor from 
Ring Video Systems, ran on an amiga and had some sort of transparent 
parport dongle.  Supposedly you could still use the parport but we never 
did.  You don't print video to anything but tapes or hard drives.

The dongles were crap, failing in a few months  it never took less than a 
month to get another.  When the 3rd one failed, they had no more  had to 
go run down the guy that wrote the code and confiscate his.  I'm thinking 
that a contract coder was all he/she ever was at that point and it was time 
to bail.  But at the time, they were the only game in town.

At that point I demanded a dongle free version of it, so they went back to 
the coder to get it.  That was an instant Autocrash. 3 times, which took 
about a week each time around that loop.  In the meantime I had sent the 
original code to a gent in .de land who knew a bit about amiga's, and he 
sent it back the next day all fixed up.  I called RVS after their 3rd try 
failed and informed them that we had cracked the program and that it was 
running just fine, and dared them to take _any_ legal action because we had 
documented the dog  pony show they were and would counter sue for heavy 
duty civil damages if we ever heard or saw a thing.  I think they must have 
crawled back under their rock because I never heard of them again.  No more 
little 1 advs in the trade papers either.

When I am getting screwed, the whole world WILL hear about it.  Or as much 
as has an internet connection...

Its the same when I find something that Just Works(TM).

Cheers, Gene
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma cutting table by Italian defunct company CR electronics

[Dave]

Igor,

Is your table for sale?

Dave

On 8/30/2012 9:55 AM, Igor Chudov wrote:
 Chuck, a flatbed quote that I got for a partial load is $1,851. We may need
 to wait a couple of days for a partial load on a flatbed to get this rate.

 Feel free to arrange your own shipping if you want. Please let me know asap
 as to what you think about it.

 630-235-6603

 Igor

 On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Jon Elsonel...@pico-systems.com  wrote:


 Igor Chudov wrote:
  
 I have this CNC plasma cutting table here:



 https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-AxkcI8flh4Y/UD5SJqLph1I/Bq4/onBU0q1ZvuU/s720/20120829_123101.jpg
  
 Supposedly, what is wrong with it is that someone stole a laptop with a

 USB
  
 key that made this table work.

 CR Electronic is an Italian company and they are out of business.

 I am wondering, realistically, what is the quickest way to bring this to
 life.



 Plasma cutting is not rocket science.  X, Y and torch on/off.  Maybe
 torch height control,
 but many older machines did not have it.  What motors and drives does it
 have?
 If those can be isolated, it might be easier to do a LinuxCNC retrofit
 than try to
 obtain a copy of the software and license key.

 Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma cutting table by Italian defunct company CR electronics

[jeremy youngs]

igor I have a friend thats an owner operator goes to chicago once or
twice weekly he is in upstate ny I dont know where its going but your
prefix suggests you are in illinois. might get a better rate

On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 9:55 AM, Igor Chudov ichu...@gmail.com wrote:
 Chuck, a flatbed quote that I got for a partial load is $1,851. We may need
 to wait a couple of days for a partial load on a flatbed to get this rate.

 Feel free to arrange your own shipping if you want. Please let me know asap
 as to what you think about it.

 630-235-6603

 Igor

 On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote:

 Igor Chudov wrote:
  I have this CNC plasma cutting table here:
 
 
 https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-AxkcI8flh4Y/UD5SJqLph1I/Bq4/onBU0q1ZvuU/s720/20120829_123101.jpg
 
  Supposedly, what is wrong with it is that someone stole a laptop with a
 USB
  key that made this table work.
 
  CR Electronic is an Italian company and they are out of business.
 
  I am wondering, realistically, what is the quickest way to bring this to
  life.
 
 
 Plasma cutting is not rocket science.  X, Y and torch on/off.  Maybe
 torch height control,
 but many older machines did not have it.  What motors and drives does it
 have?
 If those can be isolated, it might be easier to do a LinuxCNC retrofit
 than try to
 obtain a copy of the software and license key.

 Jon


 --
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma cutting table by Italian defunct company CR electronics

[Igor Chudov]

On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 9:20 AM, Kent A. Reed kentallanr...@gmail.comwrote:


 Granted my experience is now more than 10 years old because I began to
 refuse to accept software that required a USB dongle to operate, but the
 software that was being so carefully protected often turned out to be
 immutable crap. Changing to LinuxCNC gets you freedom.


Amen! Amen!

I only paid for software once, 10 years ago, it was a software to create a
legal will and a total waste of money. :)

I never, ever pay for software.

i
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma cutting table by Italian defunct company CR electronics

[Igor Chudov]

Yes, it is for sale indeed. Did you see the video?

I got it to move with a manual interface.

Here's the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlSJB5rh4NE

Contact me if interested. There was one more person here who expressed
interest.

Igor

On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 10:06 AM, Dave e...@dc9.tzo.com wrote:

 Igor,

 Is your table for sale?

 Dave

 On 8/30/2012 9:55 AM, Igor Chudov wrote:
  Chuck, a flatbed quote that I got for a partial load is $1,851. We may
 need
  to wait a couple of days for a partial load on a flatbed to get this
 rate.
 
  Feel free to arrange your own shipping if you want. Please let me know
 asap
  as to what you think about it.
 
  630-235-6603
 
  Igor
 
  On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Jon Elsonel...@pico-systems.com
  wrote:
 
 
  Igor Chudov wrote:
 
  I have this CNC plasma cutting table here:
 
 
 
 
 https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-AxkcI8flh4Y/UD5SJqLph1I/Bq4/onBU0q1ZvuU/s720/20120829_123101.jpg
 
  Supposedly, what is wrong with it is that someone stole a laptop with a
 
  USB
 
  key that made this table work.
 
  CR Electronic is an Italian company and they are out of business.
 
  I am wondering, realistically, what is the quickest way to bring this
 to
  life.
 
 
 
  Plasma cutting is not rocket science.  X, Y and torch on/off.  Maybe
  torch height control,
  but many older machines did not have it.  What motors and drives does it
  have?
  If those can be isolated, it might be easier to do a LinuxCNC retrofit
  than try to
  obtain a copy of the software and license key.
 
  Jon
 
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma cutting table by Italian defunct company CR electronics

[Igor Chudov]

Shipping wise, I am all for whatever. I can give a shipping quote, or the
buyer can arrange pick-up, any way I do not make money on freight.
Obviously, I do not ship for free and the buyer pays for shipping in any
case.

i


On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 10:13 AM, jeremy youngs jcyoung...@gmail.comwrote:

 igor I have a friend thats an owner operator goes to chicago once or
 twice weekly he is in upstate ny I dont know where its going but your
 prefix suggests you are in illinois. might get a better rate

 On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 9:55 AM, Igor Chudov ichu...@gmail.com wrote:
  Chuck, a flatbed quote that I got for a partial load is $1,851. We may
 need
  to wait a couple of days for a partial load on a flatbed to get this
 rate.
 
  Feel free to arrange your own shipping if you want. Please let me know
 asap
  as to what you think about it.
 
  630-235-6603
 
  Igor
 
  On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com
 wrote:
 
  Igor Chudov wrote:
   I have this CNC plasma cutting table here:
  
  
 
 https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-AxkcI8flh4Y/UD5SJqLph1I/Bq4/onBU0q1ZvuU/s720/20120829_123101.jpg
  
   Supposedly, what is wrong with it is that someone stole a laptop with
 a
  USB
   key that made this table work.
  
   CR Electronic is an Italian company and they are out of business.
  
   I am wondering, realistically, what is the quickest way to bring this
 to
   life.
  
  
  Plasma cutting is not rocket science.  X, Y and torch on/off.  Maybe
  torch height control,
  but many older machines did not have it.  What motors and drives does it
  have?
  If those can be isolated, it might be easier to do a LinuxCNC retrofit
  than try to
  obtain a copy of the software and license key.
 
  Jon
 
 
 
 --
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  threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
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  will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
 malware
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma cutting table by Italian defunct company CR electronics

[Chuck]

HI Igor

Thanks for the shipping info.  I will make a couple of call and get back to you 
with a As-is offer later today.  Its a crap shoot because of the control.  I 
know the EMC folk think you just hookup a computer and away you go.  Its just 
not that simple.  Tale a look at my web site to see what i build.

Thanks

Chuck



 From: Igor Chudov ichu...@gmail.com
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net 
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Plasma cutting table by Italian defunct company CR 
electronics
 
Shipping wise, I am all for whatever. I can give a shipping quote, or the
buyer can arrange pick-up, any way I do not make money on freight.
Obviously, I do not ship for free and the buyer pays for shipping in any
case.

i


On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 10:13 AM, jeremy youngs jcyoung...@gmail.comwrote:

 igor I have a friend thats an owner operator goes to chicago once or
 twice weekly he is in upstate ny I dont know where its going but your
 prefix suggests you are in illinois. might get a better rate

 On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 9:55 AM, Igor Chudov ichu...@gmail.com wrote:
  Chuck, a flatbed quote that I got for a partial load is $1,851. We may
 need
  to wait a couple of days for a partial load on a flatbed to get this
 rate.
 
  Feel free to arrange your own shipping if you want. Please let me know
 asap
  as to what you think about it.
 
  630-235-6603
 
  Igor
 
  On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com
 wrote:
 
  Igor Chudov wrote:
   I have this CNC plasma cutting table here:
  
  
 
 https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-AxkcI8flh4Y/UD5SJqLph1I/Bq4/onBU0q1ZvuU/s720/20120829_123101.jpg
  
   Supposedly, what is wrong with it is that someone stole a laptop with
 a
  USB
   key that made this table work.
  
   CR Electronic is an Italian company and they are out of business.
  
   I am wondering, realistically, what is the quickest way to bring this
 to
   life.
  
  
  Plasma cutting is not rocket science.  X, Y and torch on/off.  Maybe
  torch height control,
  but many older machines did not have it.  What motors and drives does it
  have?
  If those can be isolated, it might be easier to do a LinuxCNC retrofit
  than try to
  obtain a copy of the software and license key.
 
  Jon
 
 
 
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  threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
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  will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma cutting table by Italian defunct company CR electronics

[Igor Chudov]

Let me know, thanks.

I am slightly tempted to retrofit it myself and make some money from plasma
cutting, but I am sure that it is not entirely simple. It took me a while
to retrofit my Bridgeport interact. Big effort, great payback in case of
the Bridgeport.

Igor

On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 1:11 PM, Chuck ch...@talever.com wrote:

 HI Igor

 Thanks for the shipping info.  I will make a couple of call and get back
 to you with a As-is offer later today.  Its a crap shoot because of the
 control.  I know the EMC folk think you just hookup a computer and away you
 go.  Its just not that simple.  Tale a look at my web site to see what i
 build.

 Thanks

 Chuck


 
  From: Igor Chudov ichu...@gmail.com
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 10:53 AM
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Plasma cutting table by Italian defunct company
 CR electronics

 Shipping wise, I am all for whatever. I can give a shipping quote, or the
 buyer can arrange pick-up, any way I do not make money on freight.
 Obviously, I do not ship for free and the buyer pays for shipping in any
 case.

 i


 On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 10:13 AM, jeremy youngs jcyoung...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  igor I have a friend thats an owner operator goes to chicago once or
  twice weekly he is in upstate ny I dont know where its going but your
  prefix suggests you are in illinois. might get a better rate
 
  On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 9:55 AM, Igor Chudov ichu...@gmail.com wrote:
   Chuck, a flatbed quote that I got for a partial load is $1,851. We may
  need
   to wait a couple of days for a partial load on a flatbed to get this
  rate.
  
   Feel free to arrange your own shipping if you want. Please let me know
  asap
   as to what you think about it.
  
   630-235-6603
  
   Igor
  
   On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com
  wrote:
  
   Igor Chudov wrote:
I have this CNC plasma cutting table here:
   
   
  
 
 https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-AxkcI8flh4Y/UD5SJqLph1I/Bq4/onBU0q1ZvuU/s720/20120829_123101.jpg
   
Supposedly, what is wrong with it is that someone stole a laptop
 with
  a
   USB
key that made this table work.
   
CR Electronic is an Italian company and they are out of business.
   
I am wondering, realistically, what is the quickest way to bring
 this
  to
life.
   
   
   Plasma cutting is not rocket science.  X, Y and torch on/off.  Maybe
   torch height control,
   but many older machines did not have it.  What motors and drives does
 it
   have?
   If those can be isolated, it might be easier to do a LinuxCNC retrofit
   than try to
   obtain a copy of the software and license key.
  
   Jon
  
  
  
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma, Punch Press

[Kirk Wallace]

On Thu, 2012-08-30 at 12:51 -0500, Igor Chudov wrote:
 Yes, it is for sale indeed. Did you see the video?
 
 I got it to move with a manual interface.
 
 Here's the video
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlSJB5rh4NE
 
 Contact me if interested. There was one more person here who expressed
 interest.
 
 Igor

What happened to the punch press you had a while back?

-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
California, USA


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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma cutting table by Italian defunct company CR electronics

[Dave]

Igor,

I know you have been buying and selling equipment for a little while 
now.  Do people actually ask you if you will ship stuff like this for free??

Just curious.

Thanks,

Dave

On 8/30/2012 1:53 PM, Igor Chudov wrote:
 Shipping wise, I am all for whatever. I can give a shipping quote, or the
 buyer can arrange pick-up, any way I do not make money on freight.
 Obviously, I do not ship for free and the buyer pays for shipping in any
 case.

 i


 On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 10:13 AM, jeremy youngsjcyoung...@gmail.comwrote:


 igor I have a friend thats an owner operator goes to chicago once or
 twice weekly he is in upstate ny I dont know where its going but your
 prefix suggests you are in illinois. might get a better rate

 On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 9:55 AM, Igor Chudovichu...@gmail.com  wrote:
  
 Chuck, a flatbed quote that I got for a partial load is $1,851. We may

 need
  
 to wait a couple of days for a partial load on a flatbed to get this

 rate.
  
 Feel free to arrange your own shipping if you want. Please let me know

 asap
  
 as to what you think about it.

 630-235-6603

 Igor

 On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Jon Elsonel...@pico-systems.com

 wrote:
  

 Igor Chudov wrote:
  
 I have this CNC plasma cutting table here:



  
 https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-AxkcI8flh4Y/UD5SJqLph1I/Bq4/onBU0q1ZvuU/s720/20120829_123101.jpg
  
 Supposedly, what is wrong with it is that someone stole a laptop with

 a
  
 USB
  
 key that made this table work.

 CR Electronic is an Italian company and they are out of business.

 I am wondering, realistically, what is the quickest way to bring this

 to
  
 life.



 Plasma cutting is not rocket science.  X, Y and torch on/off.  Maybe
 torch height control,
 but many older machines did not have it.  What motors and drives does it
 have?
 If those can be isolated, it might be easier to do a LinuxCNC retrofit
 than try to
 obtain a copy of the software and license key.

 Jon



  
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma cutting table by Italian defunct company CR electronics

[Igor Chudov]

On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 1:27 PM, Dave e...@dc9.tzo.com wrote:

 Igor,

 I know you have been buying and selling equipment for a little while
 now.  Do people actually ask you if you will ship stuff like this for
 free??


Shockingly, yes, once every so often someone says I thought that shipping
was free or I did not realize that it costs $200 to ship this $25 file
cabinet to Washington State.

What is worse, ebay allows they to pay for items and put in 0 for
shipping, so I have to sort out the mess after the payment was made.

i


 Just curious.

 Thanks,

 Dave

 On 8/30/2012 1:53 PM, Igor Chudov wrote:
  Shipping wise, I am all for whatever. I can give a shipping quote, or the
  buyer can arrange pick-up, any way I do not make money on freight.
  Obviously, I do not ship for free and the buyer pays for shipping in any
  case.
 
  i
 
 
  On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 10:13 AM, jeremy youngsjcyoung...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
 
  igor I have a friend thats an owner operator goes to chicago once or
  twice weekly he is in upstate ny I dont know where its going but your
  prefix suggests you are in illinois. might get a better rate
 
  On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 9:55 AM, Igor Chudovichu...@gmail.com  wrote:
 
  Chuck, a flatbed quote that I got for a partial load is $1,851. We may
 
  need
 
  to wait a couple of days for a partial load on a flatbed to get this
 
  rate.
 
  Feel free to arrange your own shipping if you want. Please let me know
 
  asap
 
  as to what you think about it.
 
  630-235-6603
 
  Igor
 
  On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Jon Elsonel...@pico-systems.com
 
  wrote:
 
 
  Igor Chudov wrote:
 
  I have this CNC plasma cutting table here:
 
 
 
 
 
 https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-AxkcI8flh4Y/UD5SJqLph1I/Bq4/onBU0q1ZvuU/s720/20120829_123101.jpg
 
  Supposedly, what is wrong with it is that someone stole a laptop with
 
  a
 
  USB
 
  key that made this table work.
 
  CR Electronic is an Italian company and they are out of business.
 
  I am wondering, realistically, what is the quickest way to bring this
 
  to
 
  life.
 
 
 
  Plasma cutting is not rocket science.  X, Y and torch on/off.  Maybe
  torch height control,
  but many older machines did not have it.  What motors and drives does
 it
  have?
  If those can be isolated, it might be easier to do a LinuxCNC retrofit
  than try to
  obtain a copy of the software and license key.
 
  Jon
 
 
 
 
 
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  threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
 
  Discussions
 
  will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
 
  malware
 
  threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
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  https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
 
 
 
 
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 Discussions
  will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
 malware
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  --
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma cutting table by Italian defunct company CR electronics

[Chuck]

Hi Igor

Thought about it too but an  new operational 5X10 single head can be bought new 
for about 12K  I am looking at it to use as a back up for my in house cutting I 
have a 10 x 30 4 torch oxy/fuel Plasma cutter I built about three years ago.  
But sometime I have small parts that would fit well on a small machine.  Cost 
of New Control Shipping labor and other unknown problem getting it 100% make it 
a risky machine.  I am waiting for a call back on a partial load from your 
area. As soon as I get a price I will make an offer.

Chuck






 From: Igor Chudov ichu...@gmail.com
To: Chuck ch...@talever.com; Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net 
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Plasma cutting table by Italian defunct company CR 
electronics
 
Let me know, thanks.

I am slightly tempted to retrofit it myself and make some money from plasma
cutting, but I am sure that it is not entirely simple. It took me a while
to retrofit my Bridgeport interact. Big effort, great payback in case of
the Bridgeport.

Igor

On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 1:11 PM, Chuck ch...@talever.com wrote:

 HI Igor

 Thanks for the shipping info.  I will make a couple of call and get back
 to you with a As-is offer later today.  Its a crap shoot because of the
 control.  I know the EMC folk think you just hookup a computer and away you
 go.  Its just not that simple.  Tale a look at my web site to see what i
 build.

 Thanks

 Chuck


 
  From: Igor Chudov ichu...@gmail.com
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 10:53 AM
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Plasma cutting table by Italian defunct company
 CR electronics

 Shipping wise, I am all for whatever. I can give a shipping quote, or the
 buyer can arrange pick-up, any way I do not make money on freight.
 Obviously, I do not ship for free and the buyer pays for shipping in any
 case.

 i


 On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 10:13 AM, jeremy youngs jcyoung...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  igor I have a friend thats an owner operator goes to chicago once or
  twice weekly he is in upstate ny I dont know where its going but your
  prefix suggests you are in illinois. might get a better rate
 
  On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 9:55 AM, Igor Chudov ichu...@gmail.com wrote:
   Chuck, a flatbed quote that I got for a partial load is $1,851. We may
  need
   to wait a couple of days for a partial load on a flatbed to get this
  rate.
  
   Feel free to arrange your own shipping if you want. Please let me know
  asap
   as to what you think about it.
  
   630-235-6603
  
   Igor
  
   On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com
  wrote:
  
   Igor Chudov wrote:
I have this CNC plasma cutting table here:
   
   
  
 
 https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-AxkcI8flh4Y/UD5SJqLph1I/Bq4/onBU0q1ZvuU/s720/20120829_123101.jpg
   
Supposedly, what is wrong with it is that someone stole a laptop
 with
  a
   USB
key that made this table work.
   
CR Electronic is an Italian company and they are out of business.
   
I am wondering, realistically, what is the quickest way to bring
 this
  to
life.
   
   
   Plasma cutting is not rocket science.  X, Y and torch on/off.  Maybe
   torch height control,
   but many older machines did not have it.  What motors and drives does
 it
   have?
   If those can be isolated, it might be easier to do a LinuxCNC retrofit
   than try to
   obtain a copy of the software and license key.
  
   Jon
  
  
  
 
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   threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
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  malware
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma cutting table by Italian defunct company CR electronics

[Igor Chudov]

OK, let me know, thanks

On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 2:20 PM, Chuck ch...@talever.com wrote:

 Hi Igor

 Thought about it too but an  new operational 5X10 single head can be
 bought new for about 12K  I am looking at it to use as a back up for my in
 house cutting I have a 10 x 30 4 torch oxy/fuel Plasma cutter I built about
 three years ago.  But sometime I have small parts that would fit well on a
 small machine.  Cost of New Control Shipping labor and other unknown
 problem getting it 100% make it a risky machine.  I am waiting for a call
 back on a partial load from your area. As soon as I get a price I will make
 an offer.

 Chuck





 
  From: Igor Chudov ichu...@gmail.com
 To: Chuck ch...@talever.com; Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
 emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 11:16 AM
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Plasma cutting table by Italian defunct company
 CR electronics

 Let me know, thanks.

 I am slightly tempted to retrofit it myself and make some money from plasma
 cutting, but I am sure that it is not entirely simple. It took me a while
 to retrofit my Bridgeport interact. Big effort, great payback in case of
 the Bridgeport.

 Igor

 On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 1:11 PM, Chuck ch...@talever.com wrote:

  HI Igor
 
  Thanks for the shipping info.  I will make a couple of call and get back
  to you with a As-is offer later today.  Its a crap shoot because of the
  control.  I know the EMC folk think you just hookup a computer and away
 you
  go.  Its just not that simple.  Tale a look at my web site to see what i
  build.
 
  Thanks
 
  Chuck
 
 
  
   From: Igor Chudov ichu...@gmail.com
  To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
  Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 10:53 AM
  Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Plasma cutting table by Italian defunct company
  CR electronics
 
  Shipping wise, I am all for whatever. I can give a shipping quote, or the
  buyer can arrange pick-up, any way I do not make money on freight.
  Obviously, I do not ship for free and the buyer pays for shipping in any
  case.
 
  i
 
 
  On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 10:13 AM, jeremy youngs jcyoung...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
   igor I have a friend thats an owner operator goes to chicago once or
   twice weekly he is in upstate ny I dont know where its going but your
   prefix suggests you are in illinois. might get a better rate
  
   On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 9:55 AM, Igor Chudov ichu...@gmail.com
 wrote:
Chuck, a flatbed quote that I got for a partial load is $1,851. We
 may
   need
to wait a couple of days for a partial load on a flatbed to get this
   rate.
   
Feel free to arrange your own shipping if you want. Please let me
 know
   asap
as to what you think about it.
   
630-235-6603
   
Igor
   
On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com
   wrote:
   
Igor Chudov wrote:
 I have this CNC plasma cutting table here:


   
  
 
 https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-AxkcI8flh4Y/UD5SJqLph1I/Bq4/onBU0q1ZvuU/s720/20120829_123101.jpg

 Supposedly, what is wrong with it is that someone stole a laptop
  with
   a
USB
 key that made this table work.

 CR Electronic is an Italian company and they are out of business.

 I am wondering, realistically, what is the quickest way to bring
  this
   to
 life.


Plasma cutting is not rocket science.  X, Y and torch on/off.  Maybe
torch height control,
but many older machines did not have it.  What motors and drives
 does
  it
have?
If those can be isolated, it might be easier to do a LinuxCNC
 retrofit
than try to
obtain a copy of the software and license key.
   
Jon
   
   
   
  
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma cutting table by Italian defunct company CR electronics

[Peter Blodow]

Igor,
you certainly checked this before, but anyway: there is an italian 
company by the name of CR electronic. They are developing vehicle 
electronics and specialize on repairing control systems. They still seem 
to be in business. See

http://www.crelectronic.it/

Peter



Igor Chudov schrieb:
 I have this CNC plasma cutting table here:

 https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-AxkcI8flh4Y/UD5SJqLph1I/Bq4/onBU0q1ZvuU/s720/20120829_123101.jpg

 Supposedly, what is wrong with it is that someone stole a laptop with a USB
 key that made this table work.

 CR Electronic is an Italian company and they are out of business.

 I am wondering, realistically, what is the quickest way to bring this to
 life.

 Thanks
 --
 Live Security Virtual Conference
 Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
 threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
 will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
 threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
 ___
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 Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

   


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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma cutting table by Italian defunct company CR electronics

[Igor Chudov]

I think that it is a different company, no?

On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Peter Blodow p.blo...@dreki.de wrote:

 Igor,
 you certainly checked this before, but anyway: there is an italian
 company by the name of CR electronic. They are developing vehicle
 electronics and specialize on repairing control systems. They still seem
 to be in business. See

 http://www.crelectronic.it/

 Peter



 Igor Chudov schrieb:
  I have this CNC plasma cutting table here:
 
 
 https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-AxkcI8flh4Y/UD5SJqLph1I/Bq4/onBU0q1ZvuU/s720/20120829_123101.jpg
 
  Supposedly, what is wrong with it is that someone stole a laptop with a
 USB
  key that made this table work.
 
  CR Electronic is an Italian company and they are out of business.
 
  I am wondering, realistically, what is the quickest way to bring this to
  life.
 
  Thanks
 
 --
  Live Security Virtual Conference
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  threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
  will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma cutting table by Italian defunct company CR electronics

[Igor Chudov]

I got it to move itself about in manual mode:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlSJB5rh4NE

On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 12:34 PM, Igor Chudov ichu...@gmail.com wrote:

 I have this CNC plasma cutting table here:


 https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-AxkcI8flh4Y/UD5SJqLph1I/Bq4/onBU0q1ZvuU/s720/20120829_123101.jpg

 Supposedly, what is wrong with it is that someone stole a laptop with a
 USB key that made this table work.

 CR Electronic is an Italian company and they are out of business.

 I am wondering, realistically, what is the quickest way to bring this to
 life.

 Thanks

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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma cutting table by Italian defunct company CR electronics

[Jon Elson]

Igor Chudov wrote:
 I have this CNC plasma cutting table here:

 https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-AxkcI8flh4Y/UD5SJqLph1I/Bq4/onBU0q1ZvuU/s720/20120829_123101.jpg

 Supposedly, what is wrong with it is that someone stole a laptop with a USB
 key that made this table work.

 CR Electronic is an Italian company and they are out of business.

 I am wondering, realistically, what is the quickest way to bring this to
 life.

   
Plasma cutting is not rocket science.  X, Y and torch on/off.  Maybe 
torch height control,
but many older machines did not have it.  What motors and drives does it 
have?
If those can be isolated, it might be easier to do a LinuxCNC retrofit 
than try to
obtain a copy of the software and license key.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma

[Viesturs Lācis]

2012/7/6 BRIAN GLACKIN glackin.br...@gmail.com:
 I am a bit baffled.

 Why would you add milling capacity to a plasma table (other than to say you
 can do it)?

Because it is so much cheaper than 2 separate machines!
And yes, it will help my marketing, if I will have such a combo machine.

 My impression of a plasma table is a basic gantry with minimal
 mass.  The only resistance in the system is your slides of whatever
 variation you use.  By adding milling, even with a snall router, you are
 adding both mass and cutter resistance.  This significantly increases the
 overall mass of the gantry and the size of the components (servos, drives,
 etc) required to operate.

Of course, the gantry beam itself has to be larger.
But motors do not necessarily have to be bigger, maybe a little...
It will simply have bit less of acceleration with the increased mass.
My readings on web are telling one thing - the cutter resistance is
small, relative to forces, needed to overcome to achieve decent
acceleration (numbers were not mentioned, but I am calculating for 1
m/s^2 accelerations).

 Since your only looking to have a small milling area...

This is not entirely true. I know that most of the jobs will be
relatively small, but I have few ideas that will need routing pretty
large parts. And the same for plasma - most parts will be small, but
it has to be able to take up also 2500x1250 sized sheet.

And one more thing is that plasma will be used for steel sheets,
router will be used for soft materials - mostly aluminium, but I
already know that I will have at least few jobs for wood as well.

2012/6/28 John Thornton bjt...@gmail.com:

 A marking device like a spring loaded center punch with a pneumatic
 cylinder to push it down would be a nice addition if the plasma cut
 parts need any machining like drilling after cutting. That would save
 the second op a ton of time in not having to lay out holes.

Can anyone suggest a nice and compact motor for spindle? One of the
machines will actually need this exact setup for the exact reasons
pointed out. And the idea was to put a small drill in a spindle that
would mark the spot by stopping at certain place, pushing down the
pneumatic cylinder for a second or two, then pulling it back and
moving on.

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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma

[andy pugh]

On 6 July 2012 08:28, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote:

 Can anyone suggest a nice and compact motor for spindle? One of the
 machines will actually need this exact setup for the exact reasons
 pointed out. And the idea was to put a small drill in a spindle that
 would mark the spot by stopping at certain place, pushing down the
 pneumatic cylinder for a second or two, then pulling it back and
 moving on.

You will presumably have compressed air to the machine, if not
directly to the head, and you are talking about a pneumatic cylinder,
so why not use a cheap air drill?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm//350252962023

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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma

[BRIAN GLACKIN]

I am a bit baffled.

Why would you add milling capacity to a plasma table (other than to say you
can do it)?  My impression of a plasma table is a basic gantry with minimal
mass.  The only resistance in the system is your slides of whatever
variation you use.  By adding milling, even with a snall router, you are
adding both mass and cutter resistance.  This significantly increases the
overall mass of the gantry and the size of the components (servos, drives,
etc) required to operate.

Since your only looking to have a small milling area, why not just build
the plasma machine, then use it to cut our parts for a smaller (and more
robust) milling gantry.  Per haps sized so that it will sit on or in the
plasma table when they are not in use.

B
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma

[Viesturs Lācis]

2012/7/3 mark center mcen...@gmail.com:
 Vibration consideration and rigidity are usually more limiting factors
 in machining than HP.

Yes, of course. And that is why I would like to have servos being able
to get full power out of spindle, so that I can learn about the
vibrations on that machine. We have been told about these things
theoretically at school, so I want some practical experience as well.
And machine for all kinds of soft materials seems like a nice starting
point for me.

 Consider a design approach based on experience (look at what someone
 has done that works) rather than deterministic choice (formulas).

Yes, I do not intend to reinvent the wheel. Actually I do have a
little experience as well, but certainly not enough yet.

2012/7/3 Steve Blackmore st...@pilotltd.net:

 Google end mill cutting forces loads of information including this if
 you like math :)

Thanks! Selecting right keywords is 80% of success in web search.

-- 
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If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma

[Viesturs Lācis]

2012/6/29 Les Newell les.new...@fastmail.co.uk:

 If you are mainly planning on cutting aluminum I would suggest looking
 into oil mist cooling instead of flood coolant.

Can anyone suggest me way to obtain cutting forces?
I would like to have spindle motor on a rotary joint. Since the space
is limited, I have an idea for compact design. I have all the sizes,
offsets from rotary axis to tool tip etc. But I need to know cutting
forces to find out required motor torque for the rotary joint and also
for some construction elements.
Those forces will depend on depth material, removed in single pass,
diameter of tool, the sharpness of tool (worn-out tool will require
higher force). Probably there are other factors as well.

Can anyone share some source of information or at least share their experience?
Thanks!

-- 
Viesturs

If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma

[Jon Elson]

Viesturs Lācis wrote:
 Can anyone suggest me way to obtain cutting forces?
 I would like to have spindle motor on a rotary joint. Since the space
 is limited, I have an idea for compact design. I have all the sizes,
 offsets from rotary axis to tool tip etc. But I need to know cutting
 forces to find out required motor torque for the rotary joint and also
 for some construction elements.
 Those forces will depend on depth material, removed in single pass,
 diameter of tool, the sharpness of tool (worn-out tool will require
 higher force). Probably there are other factors as well.
   
There used to be a program called Mr. Machinist that would give 
horsepower requirements
when given material, depth of cut, cutter size, feed rate, etc. I 
imagine a number of other
programs can also give this info.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma

[Daniel Rogge]

Viesturs,

It depends what kind of machining you'll be doing - the forces in milling are 
lower than those in drilling.  Based on some axis motor testing I did a couple 
years back, I would guess at a conservative estimate of around 250 lbs per 
spindle horse power for the worst-case machining parameters.  For example, if 
you have a 2hp spindle and you're using all 2hp, you'll need to deliver 500 lbs 
of thrust along the axis of cut.  

Forces required in Z for drilling - Machinery's Handbook  (p1061 in Edition 28) 
estimates 7/8 hole in low carbon steel, 8 thou/rev needs 2313 lb thrust.  Also 
consider that on profiling passes with a high helix end mill you'll see the end 
mill pull itself into the part - these forces can be higher than milling XY 
forces as well.

How these numbers translate into sizing your rotary spindle stage depends on 
the geometry of that stage.

Kistler makes nice instrumentation for measuring machining forces 
(http://www.kistler.com/mx_es-mx/4111_Application/Applications-Force-During-Stock-Removal-Process.html).
  I imagine you could find some academic literature using their instrumentation 
to give you more exact data.

Rogge


-Original Message-
From: Viesturs Lācis [mailto:viesturs.la...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 5:16 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Plasma

2012/6/29 Les Newell les.new...@fastmail.co.uk:

 If you are mainly planning on cutting aluminum I would suggest looking
 into oil mist cooling instead of flood coolant.

Can anyone suggest me way to obtain cutting forces?
I would like to have spindle motor on a rotary joint. Since the space
is limited, I have an idea for compact design. I have all the sizes,
offsets from rotary axis to tool tip etc. But I need to know cutting
forces to find out required motor torque for the rotary joint and also
for some construction elements.
Those forces will depend on depth material, removed in single pass,
diameter of tool, the sharpness of tool (worn-out tool will require
higher force). Probably there are other factors as well.

Can anyone share some source of information or at least share their experience?
Thanks!

-- 
Viesturs

If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma

[Viesturs Lācis]

2012/7/2 Daniel Rogge dro...@tormach.com:

 It depends what kind of machining you'll be doing - the forces in milling are 
 lower than those in drilling.  Based on some axis motor testing I did a 
 couple years back, I would guess at a conservative estimate of around 250 lbs 
 per spindle horse power for the worst-case machining parameters.  For 
 example, if you have a 2hp spindle and you're using all 2hp, you'll need to 
 deliver 500 lbs of thrust along the axis of cut.


Thank You!
Just a small question - what material do these numbers refer to?

I am interested in aluminium.

I was thinking about Kress 1050 motor, which has 1kW power, which is
1,5 hp, so based on these figures I am looking at 375 lbs = 170 kg of
load. That is a lot.

I found this one:
http://www.carrlane.com/Catalog/index.cfm/29625071F0B221118070C1C513906103E0B05543B0B012009083C3B2853514059482013180B041D1E173C3B2853524B5A59

Figure 3-10 gives a formula.
The starting data I used are:
Tool diameter = 6 mm
Spindle speed = 5000 RPM (smallest number the Kress 1050 will do)
Spindle power = 1,5 hp

So max cutting force with given spindle and tool diameter in any
material would be 54,5 kg. Much better than 170 kg.

Viesturs

If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma

[Daniel Rogge]

Viesturs,

I was testing in Aluminum, but I think that for a given spindle HP your results 
would be similar in other materials.  If you're on an open loop machine it's 
preferable to size the motors such that you stall the spindle before stalling 
an axis motor because it's often an easier failure mode to detect.

If you're only using small end mills, then the max axis force required is 
simply just a bit more than the force required to snap the end mill.  I would 
think that a 6mm end mill wouldn't be capable of delivering 1.5 HP to a 
workpiece.

It's nice (and somewhat surprising) that the website you referenced comes up 
with nearly the same numbers as my recollection of results from a couple years 
ago.  Formulas like the one listed on that site usually seem to only be good 
within an order of magnitude.

Rogge

-Original Message-
From: Viesturs Lācis [mailto:viesturs.la...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 1:23 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Plasma

2012/7/2 Daniel Rogge dro...@tormach.com:

 It depends what kind of machining you'll be doing - the forces in milling are 
 lower than those in drilling.  Based on some axis motor testing I did a 
 couple years back, I would guess at a conservative estimate of around 250 lbs 
 per spindle horse power for the worst-case machining parameters.  For 
 example, if you have a 2hp spindle and you're using all 2hp, you'll need to 
 deliver 500 lbs of thrust along the axis of cut.


Thank You!
Just a small question - what material do these numbers refer to?

I am interested in aluminium.

I was thinking about Kress 1050 motor, which has 1kW power, which is
1,5 hp, so based on these figures I am looking at 375 lbs = 170 kg of
load. That is a lot.

I found this one:
http://www.carrlane.com/Catalog/index.cfm/29625071F0B221118070C1C513906103E0B05543B0B012009083C3B2853514059482013180B041D1E173C3B2853524B5A59

Figure 3-10 gives a formula.
The starting data I used are:
Tool diameter = 6 mm
Spindle speed = 5000 RPM (smallest number the Kress 1050 will do)
Spindle power = 1,5 hp

So max cutting force with given spindle and tool diameter in any
material would be 54,5 kg. Much better than 170 kg.

Viesturs

If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma

[Viesturs Lācis]

2012/7/2 Daniel Rogge dro...@tormach.com:

 I was testing in Aluminum, but I think that for a given spindle HP your 
 results would be similar in other materials.  If you're on an open loop 
 machine it's preferable to size the motors such that you stall the spindle 
 before stalling an axis motor because it's often an easier failure mode to 
 detect.


For X and Y I am looking only at servos. For speed, precision and
reliability. For Z axis and for rotary joints I probably will have
steppers.


 If you're only using small end mills, then the max axis force required is 
 simply just a bit more than the force required to snap the end mill.  I would 
 think that a 6mm end mill wouldn't be capable of delivering 1.5 HP to a 
 workpiece.


So that means that machine would get all the 6 mm or even 8 end mill
is capable of? That sound nice!

-- 
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If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma

[mark center]

Vibration consideration and rigidity are usually more limiting factors
in machining than HP. For example, a standard Bridgeport style mill
has a 1.5 hp motor. Most formulas give ambitious speed/feed/DOC vs hp
based on perfect stability. The forces required to cut are small
compared to the forces ensure smooth motion (up milling vs. climb
milling)
Consider a design approach based on experience (look at what someone
has done that works) rather than deterministic choice (formulas).

Mark Center

On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 2:16 PM, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote:
 2012/7/2 Daniel Rogge dro...@tormach.com:

 I was testing in Aluminum, but I think that for a given spindle HP your 
 results would be similar in other materials.  If you're on an open loop 
 machine it's preferable to size the motors such that you stall the spindle 
 before stalling an axis motor because it's often an easier failure mode to 
 detect.


 For X and Y I am looking only at servos. For speed, precision and
 reliability. For Z axis and for rotary joints I probably will have
 steppers.


 If you're only using small end mills, then the max axis force required is 
 simply just a bit more than the force required to snap the end mill.  I 
 would think that a 6mm end mill wouldn't be capable of delivering 1.5 HP to 
 a workpiece.


 So that means that machine would get all the 6 mm or even 8 end mill
 is capable of? That sound nice!

 --
 Viesturs

 If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
 http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma

[Steve Blackmore]

On Mon, 2 Jul 2012 13:15:56 +0300, you wrote:

2012/6/29 Les Newell les.new...@fastmail.co.uk:

 If you are mainly planning on cutting aluminum I would suggest looking
 into oil mist cooling instead of flood coolant.

Can anyone suggest me way to obtain cutting forces?
I would like to have spindle motor on a rotary joint. Since the space
is limited, I have an idea for compact design. I have all the sizes,
offsets from rotary axis to tool tip etc. But I need to know cutting
forces to find out required motor torque for the rotary joint and also
for some construction elements.
Those forces will depend on depth material, removed in single pass,
diameter of tool, the sharpness of tool (worn-out tool will require
higher force). Probably there are other factors as well.

Can anyone share some source of information or at least share their experience?

Google end mill cutting forces loads of information including this if
you like math :)

http://www.me.mtu.edu/~jwsuther/Publications/220_PA002.pdf

My tables give me these figures  - the required HP is spindle power, all
the CAM programs I'm conversant with assume you have adequate axis
torque.

OPERATION TYPE= Roughing
MATERIAL= Wrought Aluminum Alloys
SURFACE SPEED= 259 MPM
ENDMILL MATERIAL= CARBIDE
ENDMILL DIAMETER= 0.23622 inches 6 mm
LOAD PER FLUTE= 0.1397 mm
NUMBER OF FLUTES= 2
SPINDLE SPEED= 13740 RPM
FEEDRATE= 151.14 IPM  3838.956 mmPM
MAX Radial Depth of Cut= 2.4 mm
MAX Axial Depth of Cut= 5.1 mm
MATERIAL REMOVAL RATE= 2.86743 in³/min
MATERIAL POWER CONSTANT= 0.33
REQUIRED HORSEPOWER= 1.11324

In theory my router can exceed the above, although I've never tried it
with Al. I have slot cut swamp ash at 150 ipm at 20K rpm,  5mm doc with
a two flute 8mm up spiral carbide mill. That's on steppers at 72V 4.5A
with 4mm pitch ball screws direct drive. 

Steve Blackmore
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma

[Jon Elson]

Daniel Rogge wrote:
 If you're only using small end mills, then the max axis force required is 
 simply just a bit more than the force required to snap the end mill.  I would 
 think that a 6mm end mill wouldn't be capable of delivering 1.5 HP to a 
 workpiece.
   
That all depends on RPM.  A 6 mm end mill could probably absorb 50 Hp
at the right RPM.  I read a book on high speed machining, their test 
case was
a 75 Hp spindle at 80,000 RPM, and they were removing 640 cu in/minute
with a 1/2 solid carbide end mill!  YIKES!  It probably takes me a YEAR
to remove that much metal on a mill!

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma

[Viesturs Lācis]

2012/6/28 Yishin Li y...@araisrobo.com:

 We were using Mesa's 7i34 as the pulse/encoder interface to servo drivers.
 It was okay in one workshop with Hypertherm 45A plasma cutter. But, it
 failed in another factory with 300A plasma cutter and large EMI noise
 around that field. Our USB/FPGA link was full of CRC error messages, and we
 couldn't understand why. We had all digital and analog I/O isolated.
 Finally, we found the noise was coming from the pulse/encoder interface.

 We then developed AR02 in replace of 7i34, and it solves the EMI noise
 problem in that factory. You may refer to http://en.araisrobo.com/linuxcnc for
 the functional block of our control system.

Thank You!
Do I understand correctly, that You are running both stepper and servo
drives with step/dir signal and the difference for both is that servos
do provide encoder feedback, while steppers do not?

2012/6/29 Tom Easterday tom-...@bgp.nu:

 There is also a fine steam vapor that fills the room if we are cutting 
 continuously.  10 minutes of cutting you won't see it, 30 minutes and it is 
 quite prevalent.  Ultimately I would like to have a mist extractor hanging 
 over the table.

Thanks! I was thinking about the water vapor to appear during
continuous cutting, thanks for clarifying.


 ps:  I have no experience with downdraft tables, and perhaps they are the 
 cat's meow, but I am skeptical that they could work as well as a water table. 
  The amount of force with which the dust is created seems like it would too 
 great to be carried away by a downdraft.

There were several threads in cnczone I looked at, when searching for
information regarding downdraft tables. And one guy from HyperTherm
posted there their findings: watertable collects 95% of dust, if the
water is right below the material. It collects 60% of the dust, if it
is 10-15 mm below the material - it is crucial for planning the right
power of downdraft.
The thing with the fumes and dust is that vast majority of them are
coming from the molten metal, removed by plasma. And it is under the
material. Almost everything else is blown under material by the
compressed air from torch. That is how water can collect 95% of fumes.
The downdraft has bonus that it sucks the air , which enters the table
from above, so it can collect also the dust and fumes above the
material.

Of course, it all depends on the power of the air sucking element, the
size of table, the proportion of the surface, covered by material etc.
So from the dust and fumes collection point, downdraft is better.
Water is better for cooling the material and reducing deformations.
Downdraft is better for easier usage, water is better for cheaper
implementation.

So I cannot really decide, how to do it best, as the plan is to
actually build 2 machines - one for client (pure plasma with downdraft
- that has already been agreed with customer) and the other one for my
own use. And I want to use my machine not only for plasma also for
routing/milling. Especially aluminum, so that I can make parts for
similar machines in future. I have clear plan for the machine itself,
but I am having trouble, how to design the table - for milling I need
stiff surface (could be 8 mm steel plate with a grid of holes with
thread to clamp material) and collection of the coolant (could be a
pan under that plate), for plasma I will need bunch of slats with
nothing beneath them, except for water and/or free space for
downdraft. I do not want to have to 2 table surfaces to be removed and
then placed on the table.
Does anyone have something to suggest? I guess the best thing would be
- use the water in watertable as the coolant for aluminum - water with
rust-prevention could do. But then - how about the surface?
I was thinking of clamping the material right on the slats, but they
will not be very clean and smooth after they will have met plasma
torch, so the level of the material surface will be who-knows-what.
And then I also did not like the idea of aluminum chips falling in the
watertable, where it can meet the hot molten steel from the plasma
cutting. I read about the hazards of plasma cutting of aluminum on
watertable, so I do not want to be anywhere close to that - even not
have aluminum chips in the water. But cleaning out table before plasma
cutting does not sound nice - having the chips on a surface for easy
collection would be much better.

-- 
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If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma

[Mark Cason]

On 06/28/2012 09:02 PM, BRIAN GLACKIN wrote:
 I don't have a downdraft table but I assume you will have to move huge
 amounts of air to capture the dust from the plasma. Quite a bit of the
 dust flies up from the cut point so to be efficient the table will need
 to be completely enclosed to capture the dust. The amount of dust
 depends on the material condition as well. It seems to me that the more
 rust, crap, and dirt on the plate the more dust I see.

 I recall reading someones build blog where they immersrsed the metal
 roughly 50 mm or so below the water.  The plasma would hold the water back
 during operation and the intimate water contact kept the dust to a complete
 minimum.  I cannot recall who did that though

 Brian

   I used to know someone that worked in a shipyard, in Newport News, 
Va.  I asked him once, why the cut metal underwater, and he told me that 
it was done that way, to minimize warpage.  These are chunks of steel 1 
to 4 thick,  not the 1/8 to 1/2 (or metric equivalent) thickness' a 
HSM/Light Industrial user would be using, but the idea is the same.


-- 
-Mark

Ne M'oubliez   ---Family Motto
Hope for the best, plan for the worst   ---Personal Motto


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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma

[andy pugh]

On 29 June 2012 07:05, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote:

 Does anyone have something to suggest?

Have a full-size water table, but have lift-out slats and a
routing/milling surface that drops in in their place.
You would probably leave the machine configured 2/3 slats and 1/3
milling most of the time (possibly with a board on top), only removing
the milling surface when cutting very large pieces.

-- 
atp
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http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma

[Yishin Li]

On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.comwrote:

 2012/6/28 Yishin Li y...@araisrobo.com:
 
  We then developed AR02 in replace of 7i34, and it solves the EMI noise
  problem in that factory. You may refer to
 http://en.araisrobo.com/linuxcnc for
  the functional block of our control system.

 Do I understand correctly, that You are running both stepper and servo
 drives with step/dir signal and the difference for both is that servos
 do provide encoder feedback, while steppers do not?


Yes, we implemented closed loop PID control for servo drivers with its
pulse interface. This servo loop is for keep tracking the trajectory
commands. We choose digital A/B phase pulse interface because we believe
it's more immune to EMI noise than analog interface.

For steppers, we just bypass the PID loop and ignore encoder signals.

So I cannot really decide, how to do it best, as the plan is to
 actually build 2 machines - one for client (pure plasma with downdraft
 - that has already been agreed with customer) and the other one for my
 own use. And I want to use my machine not only for plasma also for
 routing/milling. Especially aluminum, so that I can make parts for
 similar machines in future. I have clear plan for the machine itself,
 but I am having trouble, how to design the table - for milling I need
 stiff surface (could be 8 mm steel plate with a grid of holes with
 thread to clamp material) and collection of the coolant (could be a
 pan under that plate), for plasma I will need bunch of slats with
 nothing beneath them, except for water and/or free space for
 downdraft. I do not want to have to 2 table surfaces to be removed and
 then placed on the table.
 Does anyone have something to suggest?


Have you consider build the machine larger? I mean you can use 80% of the
area for plasma cutting and the other 20% for routing. In this way, you can
share most of the electrical parts, and prevent the plasma dust from
falling on your milling surface.

Yishin
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma

[Les Newell]

Hi Viesturs,

If you are mainly planning on cutting aluminum I would suggest looking 
into oil mist cooling instead of flood coolant. You only need a trace of 
oil in the mist to act as a lubricant while the air clears the chips and 
cools the part. It works very well. You can get vegetable based oils 
specifically designed for this job that are relatively safe (you don't 
want to breathe mineral oil mist). The oil is expensive but lasts a long 
time as you only use a tiny amount. The parts come off the machine with 
just a thin film of oil on them. The trick is to use a nozzle that 
produces a fine stream of droplets rather than an atomized mist. The 
biggest disadvantage of this arrangement is that it is very directional 
so if you are cutting fairly deep you may need two nozzles. You can also 
use oil mist on steel with carbide cutters but smoke can be a problem.

I made my own up but you can buy oil mist sprayers e.g 
http://www.fogbuster.com/ though they are a bit pricy.

Les

On 29/06/2012 07:05, Viesturs Lācis wrote:
 Does anyone have something to suggest? I guess the best thing would be
 - use the water in watertable as the coolant for aluminum - water with
 rust-prevention could do.



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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma

[Viesturs Lācis]

2012/6/29 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com:
 On 29 June 2012 07:05, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote:

 Does anyone have something to suggest?

 Have a full-size water table, but have lift-out slats and a
 routing/milling surface that drops in in their place.
 You would probably leave the machine configured 2/3 slats and 1/3
 milling most of the time (possibly with a board on top), only removing
 the milling surface when cutting very large pieces.

Thanks, I like the idea, I just updated a little bit:
About 1/3 or 1/2 of the table has milling surface, positioned so that
slats are placed above it so that, if water is filled up to the upper
edge of slats, then milling surface would be 10 cm or more in the
water - I hope that would be enough for the molten metal to cool down
and not to stick to the milling surface and to be easy wiped off into
the other half of the table.
Well, I suspect that mostly I would have the way You suggest - some
2/3 of surface - slats in place for plasma, 1/3 - slats removed for
milling. And then just rise/lower the water level to switch from
milling to plasma.


2012/6/29 Yishin Li y...@araisrobo.com:

 Have you consider build the machine larger? I mean you can use 80% of the
 area for plasma cutting and the other 20% for routing. In this way, you can
 share most of the electrical parts, and prevent the plasma dust from
 falling on your milling surface.

I already am considering 2700x1400 mm working envelope :))
I chose that size so that I can easily cut with plasma metal sheets
with size of 2500x1250 mm.
Although I suspect that vast majority of the jobs would be much
smaller. But those rare occasions of bigger jobs always have the
biggest money :))

Yes, sharing the same electronics, motors and actually whole
construction of machine is the main reason for the attempt to combine
both of these technologies (well, honestly, I have ideas for other
instruments as well). Building one machine instead of two costs only 2
times less... Plus it would take up only 2 times less floor space.
if the machine is built properly, it will be fast enough for the
things I need, so I do not expect to run out of the machining time
capacity (to need another one) any time soon...


2012/6/29 Les Newell les.new...@fastmail.co.uk:

 If you are mainly planning on cutting aluminum I would suggest looking
 into oil mist cooling instead of flood coolant. You only need a trace of
 oil in the mist to act as a lubricant while the air clears the chips and
 cools the part. It works very well.

I was thinking that I could use the liquid that is already there, in
the watertable.
Thanks for the suggestion, I will take a look into it, as I expect
that only reason for the spindle to meet steel would be drilling
holes/marking hole locations, so not afraid about much of smoke.

I guess that having some oil in the water, especially if it is
vegetable oil, is nothing I should be afraid of.

-- 
Viesturs

If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma

[John Thornton]

A few things I learned in hindsight... I should have made the Y axis 
rails extend beyond the end of the water table enough so the torch head 
could reach all of the water table. A little more Z travel would have 
been nice. My slats are not rigid enough to keep thin material from 
moving when cutting at high speeds so I have to clamp it down to a frame 
rail with a piece of scrap.

I don't have a downdraft table but I assume you will have to move huge 
amounts of air to capture the dust from the plasma. Quite a bit of the 
dust flies up from the cut point so to be efficient the table will need 
to be completely enclosed to capture the dust. The amount of dust 
depends on the material condition as well. It seems to me that the more 
rust, crap, and dirt on the plate the more dust I see.

A marking device like a spring loaded center punch with a pneumatic 
cylinder to push it down would be a nice addition if the plasma cut 
parts need any machining like drilling after cutting. That would save 
the second op a ton of time in not having to lay out holes.

John

On 6/27/2012 11:18 AM, Viesturs Lācis wrote:
 Hello, folks!

 I have 3 small things.
 First one is a question for any useful plasma-specific tips, when
 designing plasma cutting machine. I just got a contract for building
 one and I would appreciate a chance to learn from other people's
 mistakes rather than my own.
 Following things are on my to-do list:
 1) use shielded cables for encoders AND for motor power; shield is
 grounded only on one end of cable, most probably the drive end;
 2) connect the machine frame and all the moving constructions and
 everything possible to earth grounding;
 3) route plasma cable separately from motor/encoder/signal/whatever
 cables wherever possible;

 I would appreciate, if plasma machine owners could share their
 experience and some problem areas they have encountered, when
 designing their machines.

 Second question - I would appreciate some advices for good and
 efficient downdraft table design. I have one brochure, where one
 concept is shown, but, guess what, it is not very detailed. So maybe
 there is some webpage with useful information on this matter.

 And last one - I would like to share a video of Anthony's 5 axis
 plasma cutting machine. I think that he has built very nice machine
 and I find his design of the rotary head to be very interesting (well,
 take a look at other of his videos for some closeups). Actually it
 showed me a solution to the problem I encountered, when designed the
 head for the waterjet.
 I helped him out with 2 kinematics modules:
 With the first module the machine can take the angle of torch tilt,
 given in the g-code as A word, and keep the direction of the tilt
 perpendicular to the XY movement. I do not know about plasmas, but for
 waterjet this concept handles the kinematics for taper compensation.
 The second is usual 5 axis module, which compensates for torch
 length offset along x, y and z as the torch is rotated by rotary
 joints.
 Both kinematics modules will also adjust torch height along central
 line of the torch instead of just moving along Z, which is crucial for
 5 axis cutting.

 The video shows the taper control module in action, running a
 testcode, consisting of 2 arcs.
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myNtcNJBcTA




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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma

[Yishin Li]

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 1:30 PM, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.comwrote:

 2012/6/28 Yishin Li y...@araisrobo.com:
  Then we realized that we need an isolated
  pulse/encoder interface for such machine.

 Thanks! Could You, please, explain a little more, what does it exactly do?


We were using Mesa's 7i34 as the pulse/encoder interface to servo drivers.
It was okay in one workshop with Hypertherm 45A plasma cutter. But, it
failed in another factory with 300A plasma cutter and large EMI noise
around that field. Our USB/FPGA link was full of CRC error messages, and we
couldn't understand why. We had all digital and analog I/O isolated.
Finally, we found the noise was coming from the pulse/encoder interface.

We then developed AR02 in replace of 7i34, and it solves the EMI noise
problem in that factory. You may refer to http://en.araisrobo.com/linuxcnc for
the functional block of our control system.

Yishin
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma

[BRIAN GLACKIN]

 I don't have a downdraft table but I assume you will have to move huge
 amounts of air to capture the dust from the plasma. Quite a bit of the
 dust flies up from the cut point so to be efficient the table will need
 to be completely enclosed to capture the dust. The amount of dust
 depends on the material condition as well. It seems to me that the more
 rust, crap, and dirt on the plate the more dust I see.

 I recall reading someones build blog where they immersrsed the metal
roughly 50 mm or so below the water.  The plasma would hold the water back
during operation and the intimate water contact kept the dust to a complete
minimum.  I cannot recall who did that though

Brian
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma

[Tom Easterday]

On Jun 28, 2012, at 10:02 PM, BRIAN GLACKIN wrote:
 I don't have a downdraft table but I assume you will have to move huge
 amounts of air to capture the dust from the plasma. Quite a bit of the
 dust flies up from the cut point so to be efficient the table will need
 to be completely enclosed to capture the dust. The amount of dust
 depends on the material condition as well. It seems to me that the more
 rust, crap, and dirt on the plate the more dust I see.
 
 I recall reading someones build blog where they immersrsed the metal
 roughly 50 mm or so below the water.  The plasma would hold the water back
 during operation and the intimate water contact kept the dust to a complete
 minimum.  I cannot recall who did that though

I have tried submerged cutting on our plasma table 
(http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?GantryPlasmaMachine).  It works, but 
with our Hypertherm 45 the cuts are not the best.  I think the molten metal 
cools too quickly  and adheres to the under side of the cut.  We get more dross 
that needs to be chipped/ground away.  It isn't unmanageable, but it isn't as 
good as a cut done (just) above the water.  It does indeed keep the dust down, 
even more than simply having the water table alone but it is a compromise with 
cut quality in my (limited) experience.  I have heard that there are torches 
designed to cut underwater so perhaps it is a matter of what model  torch you 
have.  A more powerful (than the Powermax 45) torch might have no problem 
underwater, not sure.

In general the water table keeps the dust to a minimum. There is still a little 
that is blasted off the top surface but I would say 95% of the dust is captured 
in the water table.  The thing we are finding is that the dripping water/rust 
preventer which drips off when people handle parts after cutting is also a mess 
causer in terms of the floor and surfaces immediately around the plasma 
machine.   There is also a fine steam vapor that fills the room if we are 
cutting continuously.  10 minutes of cutting you won't see it, 30 minutes and 
it is quite prevalent.  Ultimately I would like to have a mist extractor 
hanging over the table.  We have Green Cut rust preventer in the water and 
though it is supposedly non-toxic I don't like the idea of breathing it.  Even 
straight water (vapor) will have particles of whatever is on the surface of the 
metal in it, so a mist extractor would be nice.

Tom
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma

[Tom Easterday]

ps:  I have no experience with downdraft tables, and perhaps they are the cat's 
meow, but I am skeptical that they could work as well as a water table.  The 
amount of force with which the dust is created seems like it would too great to 
be carried away by a downdraft.  But, this is just conjecture.
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma

[dave]

On 06/28/2012 07:02 PM, BRIAN GLACKIN wrote:

 I recall reading someones build blog where they immersrsed the metal
 roughly 50 mm or so below the water.  The plasma would hold the water back
 during operation and the intimate water contact kept the dust to a complete
 minimum.  I cannot recall who did that though

 Brian
Sounds much like the approach for an underwater (diving/salvage) 
acetelene torch. Certainly with high carbon steel
you would get quenching/hardening along the cut.

Dave
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