Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:04:24 -0700 James Sparenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> uttered: > Install a > printer that uses a print server under win2000 or XP. even better, make it a Lexmark... -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org ++ Mandrake HowTo's & More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ Don't have good ideas if you aren't willing to be responsible for them. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 September 23, 2003 08:13 pm, James Sparenberg wrote: > On Tue, 2003-09-23 at 17:16, Vox wrote: > > On September 1993 plus 3674 days James Sparenberg wrote: > > > Anytime anyone says how easy windows is I give them one of two > > > assignments. Setup networking,(win98,ME) or even more fun. Install a > > > printer that uses a print server under win2000 or XP. > > > > Nah! much more fun...install a network card on NT4SP6 and get the > > network working...if you chose a new enough card, they'll cry ;) > > > > Vox > > Same affect with XP I'm told if you chose a 3c509 or a NE2000 *grin* > > James This one I know for certain from bitter personal experience! 3c509 NIC and an onboard SIS sharing an ADSL connection with a Windows 98 SE system. In Mandrake it was a piece of cake, In XP I never did get it 'cause I ran out of patience. I made him leave the gateway machine running Mandrake 9.1. It wasn't as though he (my neighbour) was paying me for the work. Charlie - -- Edmonton,AB,Canada User 244963 at http://counter.li.org Cooker on kernel 2.4.22-10mdk 20:21:45 up 3 days, 9:41, 1 user, load average: 0.25, 0.54, 0.51 Fidelity, n.: A virtue peculiar to those who are about to be betrayed. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/cQD8G11CaRuZZSIRAtMWAKCF5kioQcmXKq80mzoEFHocBpP0VQCeOh1W Ol2WEDCwgek/eZV0ZK338SM= =nLE0 -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Tue, 2003-09-23 at 17:16, Vox wrote: > On September 1993 plus 3674 days James Sparenberg wrote: > > > Anytime anyone says how easy windows is I give them one of two > > assignments. Setup networking,(win98,ME) or even more fun. Install a > > printer that uses a print server under win2000 or XP. > > Nah! much more fun...install a network card on NT4SP6 and get the > network working...if you chose a new enough card, they'll cry ;) > > Vox Same affect with XP I'm told if you chose a 3c509 or a NE2000 *grin* James Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On September 1993 plus 3674 days James Sparenberg wrote: > Anytime anyone says how easy windows is I give them one of two > assignments. Setup networking,(win98,ME) or even more fun. Install a > printer that uses a print server under win2000 or XP. Nah! much more fun...install a network card on NT4SP6 and get the network working...if you chose a new enough card, they'll cry ;) Vox -- Think of the Linux community as a niche economy isolated by its beliefs. Kind of like the Amish, except that our religion requires us to use _higher_ technology than everyone else. -- Donald B. Marti Jr. pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Tue, 2003-09-23 at 11:19, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: > On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 09:33, Carroll Grigsby wrote: > > On Monday 22 September 2003 07:52 am, Bryan Phinney wrote: > > > > >>> whack > > > > > That having been said, I still don't see this as being applicable to the > > > discussion. Unless we are suggesting that Mandrake Linux is installable > > > and configurable by an unsophisticated user who would be the person most > > > likely to purchase an OS from a retail chain, the the existence of retail > > > boxed sets is immaterial. Assume for an instant that your mother or > > > grandmother were to purchase Mandrake from a retail chain, do you think > > > that the experience installing and configuring will be fair to the > > > distribution and recommend further purchases by others? > > > > I started with a copy of Mandrake 7.0 PowerPack at the local Staples. Took it > > home, installed it, and went surfing -- within an hour or so. I had done some > > research about installation and hardware beforehand (and I had both a blank > > HD and PartitionMagic available), but the ease of installation blew me away. > > I continued to buy each new version at some local store until 8.1, when I > > started to buy from the Store to give Mandrake a bigger share of my bucks. > > > > I'd suggest that the way to look at the mass market chains (office supply > > places, bookstores, CompUSA, etc) is that those outlets get the Mandrake name > > out where people see it. While the Mandrake name is well known and well liked > > within the Linux community, I submit that it is largely unknown in the > > outside world. > > > > BTW, from what I read elsewhere, I doubt that your mother/grandmother would be > > able to install any breed of Windows without some serious problems, let alone > > all of the other apps that are needed before Windows can do anything useful. > > > > -- cmg > > > > This is correct; currently Window's installations are much harder to > complete than Mandrake installations. This is not publicized well > enough. > > LX Anytime anyone says how easy windows is I give them one of two assignments. Setup networking,(win98,ME) or even more fun. Install a printer that uses a print server under win2000 or XP. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 09:33, Carroll Grigsby wrote: > On Monday 22 September 2003 07:52 am, Bryan Phinney wrote: > > >>> whack > > > That having been said, I still don't see this as being applicable to the > > discussion. Unless we are suggesting that Mandrake Linux is installable > > and configurable by an unsophisticated user who would be the person most > > likely to purchase an OS from a retail chain, the the existence of retail > > boxed sets is immaterial. Assume for an instant that your mother or > > grandmother were to purchase Mandrake from a retail chain, do you think > > that the experience installing and configuring will be fair to the > > distribution and recommend further purchases by others? > > I started with a copy of Mandrake 7.0 PowerPack at the local Staples. Took it > home, installed it, and went surfing -- within an hour or so. I had done some > research about installation and hardware beforehand (and I had both a blank > HD and PartitionMagic available), but the ease of installation blew me away. > I continued to buy each new version at some local store until 8.1, when I > started to buy from the Store to give Mandrake a bigger share of my bucks. > > I'd suggest that the way to look at the mass market chains (office supply > places, bookstores, CompUSA, etc) is that those outlets get the Mandrake name > out where people see it. While the Mandrake name is well known and well liked > within the Linux community, I submit that it is largely unknown in the > outside world. > > BTW, from what I read elsewhere, I doubt that your mother/grandmother would be > able to install any breed of Windows without some serious problems, let alone > all of the other apps that are needed before Windows can do anything useful. > > -- cmg > This is correct; currently Window's installations are much harder to complete than Mandrake installations. This is not publicized well enough. LX -- °°° Linux Mandrake 9.1 Kernel 2.4.21-0.13mdk *Catch Star Trek Enterprise, Wednesdays on UPN* Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Tue, 2003-09-23 at 02:39, Lee Wiggers wrote: > On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:24:35 +0800 > "Frankie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > I think many many people got started on Redhat because it came > > bundled with dozens of "linux in 24 hours", "linux for dummies" > > etc, type books.. > > > > I'd really love to see mandrake in those books, I wonder what > > they'd have to do to get that sort of exposure. > > > > > > rgds > > > > Franki > > > > > > > What a memory. I started with "Linux for Dummies" and Red Hat. Six > weeks later I chucked the project feeling really stupid. I needed > Linux for the Dummy's Dummies. > > Lee heh :-) I remember spending a few weeks researching Linux and BSD... I couldn't believe that I could just have the whole OS for free. I bought a book that was basically a print out of Matt Welsh's HOWTO and came with a Slackware disc. I forget the version, but it was kernel 2.0 and I was installing it on a 486/33. Then I realized the catch was the learning curve. It took about three months to give up on that and buy a Red Hat 5.2 box, and I was royally p.o.'ed that their GUI rpm update tool was broken out of the box and their "installation support" didn't include getting X running. -- Jack Coates Monkeynoodle: A Scientific Venture... Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:24:35 +0800 "Frankie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I think many many people got started on Redhat because it came > bundled with dozens of "linux in 24 hours", "linux for dummies" > etc, type books.. > > I'd really love to see mandrake in those books, I wonder what > they'd have to do to get that sort of exposure. > > > rgds > > Franki > > > What a memory. I started with "Linux for Dummies" and Red Hat. Six weeks later I chucked the project feeling really stupid. I needed Linux for the Dummy's Dummies. Lee Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Tuesday 23 Sep 2003 1:11 am, Carroll Grigsby wrote: > On Monday 22 September 2003 09:45 am, Anne Wilson wrote: > > On Monday 22 Sep 2003 2:33 pm, Carroll Grigsby wrote: > > > BTW, from what I read elsewhere, I doubt that your > > > mother/grandmother would be able to install any breed of > > > Windows without some serious problems, let alone all of the > > > other apps that are needed before Windows can do anything > > > useful. > > > > > > -- cmg > > > > Oi - in the name of all grandmothers - I resemble that remark! > > > > Anne > > Anne: > Sorry, but you are way outside of the 3 sigma limit for any > commonly accepted definition of grannies. > Never wanted to be a sheep Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 22:24, Frankie wrote: > I think many many people got started on Redhat because it came bundled with > dozens of "linux in 24 hours", "linux for dummies" etc, type books.. > > I'd really love to see mandrake in those books, I wonder what they'd have > to do to get that sort of exposure. > > > rgds > > Franki Franki, Now that you mention it around the time of 7.2 there was a Learn Mandrake Linux in 24 hours book from Sams. Dunno what the outcome was. Although based on what I see around here. To keep up with RH we'd need to hurry up and get the edition for MDK 9.0 out. *grin* James > > > > __ > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? > Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
I think many many people got started on Redhat because it came bundled with dozens of "linux in 24 hours", "linux for dummies" etc, type books.. I'd really love to see mandrake in those books, I wonder what they'd have to do to get that sort of exposure. rgds Franki Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Monday 22 September 2003 11:12 am, Vincent Danen wrote: > > Here's an idea tho... I was recently in a local bookstore that caters to > *NIX junkies and saw some Yellowdog packages there. The cool thing is, > tho, that they came in a regular DVD case, just like a movie. I'm > wondering if there is a place for the powerpack (DVD-only) being produced > in this way. No manual, no CDs, just the one DVD and your registration > card. Send it up the pole! I think it is a fantastic idea!!! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 September 22, 2003 07:31 pm, Vincent Danen wrote: [..] > Well, for us Edmonton folk, I might be able to rig something myself, but > let's see what we can do about this the right way first. Yes please. I didn't say that any of us (my friends and acquaintances, myself, other pains in the etc.(-;) were impatient, just eager. There is a large difference after all. Charlie - -- Edmonton,AB,Canada User 244963 at http://counter.li.org Cooker on kernel 2.4.22-10mdk 19:37:39 up 2 days, 8:57, 1 user, load average: 0.14, 0.14, 0.12 To get back on your feet, miss two car payments. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/b6R7G11CaRuZZSIRAvE9AKCSxszTr84eMEi9aKo1BNTnKPYTQQCcDap0 qemGDpWpS90xa9mMmnqiYLQ= =gdJT -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Mon Sep 22, 2003 at 12:50:19PM -0700, Alan Shoemaker wrote:
> > Sorry for shouting but I know at least ten people here in
> > Edmonton that would jump at that if it were available. 2
> > would buy from Mandrake store if they could, the others
> > either don't use credit cards on-line or don't use credit
> > cards at all.
> >
> > I've said it before; some of my friends are as weird as I.
> >
> > Regards;
> > Charlie
>
> guys$54 check it out.
>
> http://www.mandrakestore.com/mdkinc/index.php?PAGE=tab_0/menu_2.php&id_art=277&LANG_=en#GOTO_277
Right, but the point is having something like this in the store
(physically). Might be a better seller than a boxed set (and easier/cheaper
to manufacture/ship).
--
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
Online Security Resource Book; http://linsec.ca/
"lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import"
{FE6F2AFD : 88D8 0D23 8D4B 3407 5BD7 66F9 2043 D0E5 FE6F 2AFD}
pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Mon Sep 22, 2003 at 12:24:00PM -0600, Charlie M. wrote:
> > Here's an idea tho... I was recently in a local bookstore that caters to
> > *NIX junkies and saw some Yellowdog packages there. The cool thing is,
> > tho, that they came in a regular DVD case, just like a movie. I'm
> > wondering if there is a place for the powerpack (DVD-only) being produced
> > in this way. No manual, no CDs, just the one DVD and your registration
> > card.
>
> YES!
>
> Sorry for shouting but I know at least ten people here in Edmonton that would
> jump at that if it were available. 2 would buy from Mandrake store if they
> could, the others either don't use credit cards on-line or don't use credit
> cards at all.
>
> I've said it before; some of my friends are as weird as I.
Well, for us Edmonton folk, I might be able to rig something myself, but
let's see what we can do about this the right way first.
--
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
Online Security Resource Book; http://linsec.ca/
"lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import"
{FE6F2AFD : 88D8 0D23 8D4B 3407 5BD7 66F9 2043 D0E5 FE6F 2AFD}
pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Monday 22 September 2003 12:08 pm, Richard wrote: > el Sun September 21 2003 8:11 pm, HaywireMac escribió: > > On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 14:39:31 -0600 > > > > Vincent Danen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> uttered: > > > This isn't usenet. The above comments are not appropriate for this > > > forum. You may disagree with what he had to say, and that's fine, > > > but to use that language is entirely unacceptable. > > > > Oh I see, he can call the users here a bunch of chattering monkeys, > > but I'm using inappropriate language. > > Yes, you are. > > He did not call them chattering monkeys, he referred to the anecdote > that "a million monkeys typing on a million keyboards for a million > years" might one day produce a work similar to one of Shakespeare's. > > regards, > Richard. From the old Bob Newhart bit: "Hey, Harry, look at this. 'To be or not to be, that is the zdlkaj;oe8r72v'." -- cmg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 13:21, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > Anne Wilson schrieb am Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:52:31 +0100: > > > > Here's an idea tho... I was recently in a local bookstore that > > > caters to *NIX junkies and saw some Yellowdog packages there. The > > > cool thing is, tho, that they came in a regular DVD case, just like > > > a movie. I'm wondering if there is a place for the powerpack > > > (DVD-only) being produced in this way. No manual, no CDs, just the > > > one DVD and your registration card. > > > > It sounds an excellent idea to me, Vincent. Convenient for the user > > and cheaper to make and ship. > > Of course you all know that this already exists. Check out MandrakeStore > and gaze at the never-heard-of DVD-Only-Edition of Mandrake Linux. > > wobo Wobo, I know they exist. Which is why I'm advocating getting it rather than the bulky box into stores. I buy CD only sets (don't have DVD reader in my box) James Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Monday 22 September 2003 09:45 am, Anne Wilson wrote: > On Monday 22 Sep 2003 2:33 pm, Carroll Grigsby wrote: > > BTW, from what I read elsewhere, I doubt that your > > mother/grandmother would be able to install any breed of Windows > > without some serious problems, let alone all of the other apps that > > are needed before Windows can do anything useful. > > > > -- cmg > > Oi - in the name of all grandmothers - I resemble that remark! > > Anne Anne: Sorry, but you are way outside of the 3 sigma limit for any commonly accepted definition of grannies. -- cmg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 September 22, 2003 01:50 pm, Alan Shoemaker wrote: [..] > > > Agreed on the book part and, IIRC, it comes on the CDs or > > > at least it's available online. > > > > > > Here's an idea tho... I was recently in a local bookstore > > > that caters to *NIX junkies and saw some Yellowdog > > > packages there. The cool thing is, tho, that they came > > > in a regular DVD case, just like a movie. I'm wondering > > > if there is a place for the powerpack (DVD-only) being > > > produced in this way. No manual, no CDs, just the one DVD > > > and your registration card. > > > > YES! > > > > Sorry for shouting but I know at least ten people here in > > Edmonton that would jump at that if it were available. 2 > > would buy from Mandrake store if they could, the others > > either don't use credit cards on-line or don't use credit > > cards at all. > > > > I've said it before; some of my friends are as weird as I. > > guys$54 check it out. > > http://www.mandrakestore.com/mdkinc/index.php?PAGE=tab_0/menu_2.php&id_art= >277&LANG_=en#GOTO_277 Thanks Alan. I'll forward the link to the appropriate people as soon as things are updated to reflect 9.2. The people I'm referring to (my "victims") all have 9.1 installed and it's what got them all interested in keeping the distribution alive when they read about the financial difficulties. Most had no idea that anything such as Mandrake Linux was available or possible before I started yammering at them, since they're all refugees from the Windows + OEM way of life. Now that they've been "softened up" I can (probably) convince almost all that they need to support the distribution. By 'probably' I mean as long as it's convenient, since the rest of their Mandrake experience has been. Or as much as I've been able to make it so. Best Regards; Charlie - -- Edmonton,AB,Canada User 244963 at http://counter.li.org Cooker on kernel 2.4.22-10mdk 14:02:11 up 2 days, 3:21, 1 user, load average: 0.17, 0.14, 0.20 I have a very good DENTAL PLAN. Thank you. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/b1fXG11CaRuZZSIRAjpkAJ9weRCA2EbAkPM31yJ8iHSuisgg2QCeJoIz eL6LkMxnPoAwD9ls80N3WqU= =Jou2 -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
Alan Shoemaker wrote: > Charlie M. wrote: > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > September 22, 2003 12:12 pm, Vincent Danen wrote: > > > On Mon Sep 22, 2003 at 10:11:37AM -0700, James > > > Sparenberg > > wrote: > > > > > > One side, > > > > > > > > > > > > This statement by RH was made before the > > > > > > release of 9 9 is in the stores all that was > > > > > > dropped was the less profitable high end boxed > > > > > > sets. (those costing $100.00 US +) the lower end > > > > > > boxed sets are still on the shelves. > > > > > > > > > > Ahhh... ok, thanks for the clarification, James. > > > > > So they "cheap" boxes are still being produced, > > > > > just not the more expensive ones. > > > > > > > > > > Interesting. > > > > > > > > It seems that the low end boxes move. The high end > > > > boxes mostly get back routed through the channel. > > > > (the go to the stores, they come back.) It seems > > > > thought there is room for one more "version" a disk > > > > only set. Cheaper to produce, and a lot of people (a > > > > lot not all) don't need / want the book. Advantage > > > > here. The book is, the most expensive part to > > > > produce. Heck include a "gift Certificate" for the > > > > book through the mail or just put it on a > > > > documentation disk that can be read/printed from > > > > winders. > > > > > > Agreed on the book part and, IIRC, it comes on the CDs > > > or at least it's available online. > > > > > > Here's an idea tho... I was recently in a local > > > bookstore that caters to *NIX junkies and saw some > > > Yellowdog packages there. The cool thing is, tho, that > > > they came in a regular DVD case, just like a movie. > > > I'm wondering if there is a place for the powerpack > > > (DVD-only) being produced in this way. No manual, no > > > CDs, just the one DVD and your registration card. > > > > YES! > > > > Sorry for shouting but I know at least ten people here in > > Edmonton that would jump at that if it were available. 2 > > would buy from Mandrake store if they could, the others > > either don't use credit cards on-line or don't use credit > > cards at all. whoops! i forgot to mention that there are options other than using a credit card for payment on mandrakestore. i quote the first page of the checkout sequence, "Please note that orders paid by bank transfer, check or PayPal are processed once/twice a week upon receipt of the payment in our accounts.", which show three alternate payment options other thgan credit cards for customers to use. :) > > > > I've said it before; some of my friends are as weird as > > I. > > > > Regards; > > Charlie > > guys$54 check it out. > http://www.mandrakestore.com/mdkinc/index.php?PAGE=tab_0/menu_2.php&id_art=277&LANG_=en#GOTO_277 > -- Alan Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Monday 22 Sep 2003 9:21 pm, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > Anne Wilson schrieb am Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:52:31 +0100: > > > Here's an idea tho... I was recently in a local bookstore that > > > caters to *NIX junkies and saw some Yellowdog packages there. > > > The cool thing is, tho, that they came in a regular DVD case, > > > just like a movie. I'm wondering if there is a place for the > > > powerpack (DVD-only) being produced in this way. No manual, no > > > CDs, just the one DVD and your registration card. > > > > It sounds an excellent idea to me, Vincent. Convenient for the > > user and cheaper to make and ship. > > Of course you all know that this already exists. Check out > MandrakeStore and gaze at the never-heard-of DVD-Only-Edition of > Mandrake Linux. > > wobo Sure, but we were talking about it being in bookshops and other places Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
Anne Wilson schrieb am Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:52:31 +0100: > > Here's an idea tho... I was recently in a local bookstore that > > caters to *NIX junkies and saw some Yellowdog packages there. The > > cool thing is, tho, that they came in a regular DVD case, just like > > a movie. I'm wondering if there is a place for the powerpack > > (DVD-only) being produced in this way. No manual, no CDs, just the > > one DVD and your registration card. > > It sounds an excellent idea to me, Vincent. Convenient for the user > and cheaper to make and ship. Of course you all know that this already exists. Check out MandrakeStore and gaze at the never-heard-of DVD-Only-Edition of Mandrake Linux. wobo Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Monday 22 Sep 2003 7:42 pm, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > > > > Oi - in the name of all grandmothers - I resemble that > > > > remark! > > > > > > Me too! > > > > Old enough to be a grandpa, Young enough to have a 3 year old > > *grin* > > /me is a grandfather of a teenager (17). So I might fall into that > category where I'm not able to install windows. Right. But I am > able to install Mandrake Linux! > > wobo (*not* too old to Rock'n'Roll!) My granddaughter is 17 and my grandson almost 16, and I am the tech support for the whole family (and a few friends) But so far I've managed to draw the line at xp Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Monday 22 Sep 2003 7:12 pm, Vincent Danen wrote: > On Mon Sep 22, 2003 at 10:11:37AM -0700, James Sparenberg wrote: > > > > One side, > > > > > > > > This statement by RH was made before the release of 9 > > > > 9 is in the stores all that was dropped was the less > > > > profitable high end boxed sets. (those costing $100.00 US +) > > > > the lower end boxed sets are still on the shelves. > > > > > > Ahhh... ok, thanks for the clarification, James. So they > > > "cheap" boxes are still being produced, just not the more > > > expensive ones. > > > > > > Interesting. > > > > It seems that the low end boxes move. The high end boxes mostly > > get back routed through the channel. (the go to the stores, they > > come back.) It seems thought there is room for one more > > "version" a disk only set. Cheaper to produce, and a lot of > > people (a lot not all) don't need / want the book. Advantage > > here. The book is, the most expensive part to produce. Heck > > include a "gift Certificate" for the book through the mail or > > just put it on a documentation disk that can be read/printed from > > winders. > > Agreed on the book part and, IIRC, it comes on the CDs or at least > it's available online. > > Here's an idea tho... I was recently in a local bookstore that > caters to *NIX junkies and saw some Yellowdog packages there. The > cool thing is, tho, that they came in a regular DVD case, just like > a movie. I'm wondering if there is a place for the powerpack > (DVD-only) being produced in this way. No manual, no CDs, just the > one DVD and your registration card. It sounds an excellent idea to me, Vincent. Convenient for the user and cheaper to make and ship. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
Charlie M. wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > September 22, 2003 12:12 pm, Vincent Danen wrote: > > On Mon Sep 22, 2003 at 10:11:37AM -0700, James Sparenberg wrote: > > > > > One side, > > > > > > > > > > This statement by RH was made before the > > > > > release of 9 9 is in the stores all that was > > > > > dropped was the less profitable high end boxed > > > > > sets. (those costing $100.00 US +) the lower end > > > > > boxed sets are still on the shelves. > > > > > > > > Ahhh... ok, thanks for the clarification, James. So > > > > they "cheap" boxes are still being produced, just not > > > > the more expensive ones. > > > > > > > > Interesting. > > > > > > It seems that the low end boxes move. The high end > > > boxes mostly get back routed through the channel. (the > > > go to the stores, they come back.) It seems thought > > > there is room for one more "version" a disk only set. > > > Cheaper to produce, and a lot of people (a lot not all) > > > don't need / want the book. Advantage here. The book > > > is, the most expensive part to produce. Heck include a > > > "gift Certificate" for the book through the mail or > > > just put it on a documentation disk that can be > > > read/printed from winders. > > > > Agreed on the book part and, IIRC, it comes on the CDs or > > at least it's available online. > > > > Here's an idea tho... I was recently in a local bookstore > > that caters to *NIX junkies and saw some Yellowdog > > packages there. The cool thing is, tho, that they came > > in a regular DVD case, just like a movie. I'm wondering > > if there is a place for the powerpack (DVD-only) being > > produced in this way. No manual, no CDs, just the one DVD > > and your registration card. > > YES! > > Sorry for shouting but I know at least ten people here in > Edmonton that would jump at that if it were available. 2 > would buy from Mandrake store if they could, the others > either don't use credit cards on-line or don't use credit > cards at all. > > I've said it before; some of my friends are as weird as I. > > Regards; > Charlie guys$54 check it out. http://www.mandrakestore.com/mdkinc/index.php?PAGE=tab_0/menu_2.php&id_art=277&LANG_=en#GOTO_277 -- Alan Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
James Sparenberg schrieb am Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:14:35 -0700: > On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 07:18, Patricia Fraser wrote: > > On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:45 pm, Anne Wilson wrote: > > > On Monday 22 Sep 2003 2:33 pm, Carroll Grigsby wrote: > > > > BTW, from what I read elsewhere, I doubt that your > > > > mother/grandmother would be able to install any breed of Windows > > > > without some serious problems, let alone all of the other apps > > > > that are needed before Windows can do anything useful. > > > > > > > > -- cmg > > > > > > Oi - in the name of all grandmothers - I resemble that remark! > > > > Me too! > > Old enough to be a grandpa, Young enough to have a 3 year old *grin* /me is a grandfather of a teenager (17). So I might fall into that category where I'm not able to install windows. Right. But I am able to install Mandrake Linux! wobo (*not* too old to Rock'n'Roll!) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 September 22, 2003 12:12 pm, Vincent Danen wrote: > On Mon Sep 22, 2003 at 10:11:37AM -0700, James Sparenberg wrote: > > > > One side, > > > > > > > > This statement by RH was made before the release of 9 9 is > > > > in the stores all that was dropped was the less profitable high end > > > > boxed sets. (those costing $100.00 US +) the lower end boxed sets > > > > are still on the shelves. > > > > > > Ahhh... ok, thanks for the clarification, James. So they "cheap" boxes > > > are still being produced, just not the more expensive ones. > > > > > > Interesting. > > > > It seems that the low end boxes move. The high end boxes mostly get > > back routed through the channel. (the go to the stores, they come > > back.) It seems thought there is room for one more "version" a disk > > only set. Cheaper to produce, and a lot of people (a lot not all) don't > > need / want the book. Advantage here. The book is, the most expensive > > part to produce. Heck include a "gift Certificate" for the book through > > the mail or just put it on a documentation disk that can be read/printed > > from winders. > > Agreed on the book part and, IIRC, it comes on the CDs or at least it's > available online. > > Here's an idea tho... I was recently in a local bookstore that caters to > *NIX junkies and saw some Yellowdog packages there. The cool thing is, > tho, that they came in a regular DVD case, just like a movie. I'm > wondering if there is a place for the powerpack (DVD-only) being produced > in this way. No manual, no CDs, just the one DVD and your registration > card. YES! Sorry for shouting but I know at least ten people here in Edmonton that would jump at that if it were available. 2 would buy from Mandrake store if they could, the others either don't use credit cards on-line or don't use credit cards at all. I've said it before; some of my friends are as weird as I. Regards; Charlie - -- Edmonton,AB,Canada User 244963 at http://counter.li.org Cooker on kernel 2.4.22-10mdk 12:21:21 up 2 days, 1:40, 1 user, load average: 0.14, 0.16, 0.24 "It's when they say 2 + 2 = 5 that I begin to argue." - -- Eric Pepke -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/bz5OG11CaRuZZSIRAsqwAJ0ZQ+RnMmRtcBCi/DUq4u2AXiCRlgCeLz5y 3FDbO49eUR+lyDLeWITnFyc= =ZHrU -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Monday 22 September 2003 02:12 pm, Vincent Danen wrote: > Here's an idea tho... I was recently in a local bookstore that caters to > *NIX junkies and saw some Yellowdog packages there. The cool thing is, > tho, that they came in a regular DVD case, just like a movie. I'm > wondering if there is a place for the powerpack (DVD-only) being produced > in this way. No manual, no CDs, just the one DVD and your registration > card. I'd be interested in that - heck, I'd be thrilled if there was some easy way to pay here in the United States, aside from a credit card (i.e., personal check or better yet, debit card!!!) -- /\ Dark>Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Monday 22 September 2003 01:14 pm, James Sparenberg wrote: > Old enough to be a grandpa, Young enough to have a 3 year old *grin* > > James > > > 8-) Heaven forbid my 12 yr old makes me a grandparent but I do have a 19 month old baby girl! :-) -- /\ Dark>Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Mon Sep 22, 2003 at 10:11:37AM -0700, James Sparenberg wrote:
> > > One side,
> > >
> > > This statement by RH was made before the release of 9 9 is in
> > > the stores all that was dropped was the less profitable high end boxed
> > > sets. (those costing $100.00 US +) the lower end boxed sets are still
> > > on the shelves.
> >
> > Ahhh... ok, thanks for the clarification, James. So they "cheap" boxes are
> > still being produced, just not the more expensive ones.
> >
> > Interesting.
>
>
> It seems that the low end boxes move. The high end boxes mostly get
> back routed through the channel. (the go to the stores, they come
> back.) It seems thought there is room for one more "version" a disk
> only set. Cheaper to produce, and a lot of people (a lot not all) don't
> need / want the book. Advantage here. The book is, the most expensive
> part to produce. Heck include a "gift Certificate" for the book through
> the mail or just put it on a documentation disk that can be read/printed
> from winders.
Agreed on the book part and, IIRC, it comes on the CDs or at least it's
available online.
Here's an idea tho... I was recently in a local bookstore that caters to
*NIX junkies and saw some Yellowdog packages there. The cool thing is, tho,
that they came in a regular DVD case, just like a movie. I'm wondering if
there is a place for the powerpack (DVD-only) being produced in this way.
No manual, no CDs, just the one DVD and your registration card.
--
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
Online Security Resource Book; http://linsec.ca/
"lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import"
{FE6F2AFD : 88D8 0D23 8D4B 3407 5BD7 66F9 2043 D0E5 FE6F 2AFD}
pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 07:18, Patricia Fraser wrote: > On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:45 pm, Anne Wilson wrote: > > On Monday 22 Sep 2003 2:33 pm, Carroll Grigsby wrote: > > > BTW, from what I read elsewhere, I doubt that your > > > mother/grandmother would be able to install any breed of Windows > > > without some serious problems, let alone all of the other apps that > > > are needed before Windows can do anything useful. > > > > > > -- cmg > > > > Oi - in the name of all grandmothers - I resemble that remark! > > Me too! Old enough to be a grandpa, Young enough to have a 3 year old *grin* James > > 8-) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 08:45, Vincent Danen wrote: > > One side, > > > > This statement by RH was made before the release of 9 9 is in > > the stores all that was dropped was the less profitable high end boxed > > sets. (those costing $100.00 US +) the lower end boxed sets are still > > on the shelves. > > Ahhh... ok, thanks for the clarification, James. So they "cheap" boxes are > still being produced, just not the more expensive ones. > > Interesting. It seems that the low end boxes move. The high end boxes mostly get back routed through the channel. (the go to the stores, they come back.) It seems thought there is room for one more "version" a disk only set. Cheaper to produce, and a lot of people (a lot not all) don't need / want the book. Advantage here. The book is, the most expensive part to produce. Heck include a "gift Certificate" for the book through the mail or just put it on a documentation disk that can be read/printed from winders. James Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Monday 22 September 2003 09:33 am, Carroll Grigsby wrote: > BTW, from what I read elsewhere, I doubt that your mother/grandmother would > be able to install any breed of Windows without some serious problems, let > alone all of the other apps that are needed before Windows can do anything > useful. I think that they could install it, albeit with major security holes and problems soon to come. I would not recommend that any casual user install an OS, no matter what brand. MS is only saved by having the OS pre-installed by the OEM. I think that Mandrake is in most cases superior to Windows, at least if you get it installed it is secure, but neither should not be done by a casual user who is not prepared to learn how things work in order to get it right. -- Bryan Phinney Software Test Engineer Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:08:23 -0400 Richard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> uttered: > Yes, you are. ya, ya, I know. > He did not call them chattering monkeys, he referred to the anecdote > that "a million monkeys typing on a million keyboards for a million > years" might one day produce a work similar to one of Shakespeare's. I'm aware of the reference, it's condescending and insulting, nonetheless. Anyway, I finally realized, why should I give a rat's ass what Rolph thinks anyway Oops! -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org ++ Mandrake HowTo's & More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ God made everything out of nothing, but the nothingness shows through. -- Paul Valery Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
el Sun September 21 2003 8:11 pm, HaywireMac escribió: > On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 14:39:31 -0600 > > Vincent Danen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> uttered: > > This isn't usenet. The above comments are not appropriate for this > > forum. You may disagree with what he had to say, and that's fine, > > but to use that language is entirely unacceptable. > > Oh I see, he can call the users here a bunch of chattering monkeys, > but I'm using inappropriate language. > Yes, you are. He did not call them chattering monkeys, he referred to the anecdote that "a million monkeys typing on a million keyboards for a million years" might one day produce a work similar to one of Shakespeare's. regards, Richard. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Sun Sep 21, 2003 at 11:36:13PM -0700, James Sparenberg wrote:
> > Like you, I only just picked up on this thread. However, playing devil's
> > advocate here, I'd say that RH figures they have enough market
> > penetration and recognition to drop the costly retail sector. However, 2
> > things spring to mind, RH built their repuation and branding on having
> > those boxed sets available in retail for a LONG TIME. For a long time
> > they were the ONLY boxed set available and furthermore, that also helped
> > make their name synonymous with Linux in the U.S. - for right or for
> > wrong. Second, RH is clearly targetting a a different market than RH -
> > namely the enterprise. Look how they piss on desktop users with their
> > mangled KDE etc. ML is going after a different market - the desktop,
> > whose users reside mainly in the retail space right now.
> >
> > Just a few thoughts...
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Jason
> > PS, I am American (Dual NZ citizen) but have been happily living in New
> > Zealand for over 8 years now...
> >
> > Vincent Danen wrote:
> >
>
> One side,
>
> This statement by RH was made before the release of 9 9 is in
> the stores all that was dropped was the less profitable high end boxed
> sets. (those costing $100.00 US +) the lower end boxed sets are still
> on the shelves.
Ahhh... ok, thanks for the clarification, James. So they "cheap" boxes are
still being produced, just not the more expensive ones.
Interesting.
--
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
Online Security Resource Book; http://linsec.ca/
"lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import"
{FE6F2AFD : 88D8 0D23 8D4B 3407 5BD7 66F9 2043 D0E5 FE6F 2AFD}
pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:45 pm, Anne Wilson wrote: > On Monday 22 Sep 2003 2:33 pm, Carroll Grigsby wrote: > > BTW, from what I read elsewhere, I doubt that your > > mother/grandmother would be able to install any breed of Windows > > without some serious problems, let alone all of the other apps that > > are needed before Windows can do anything useful. > > > > -- cmg > > Oi - in the name of all grandmothers - I resemble that remark! Me too! 8-) -- Trish Fraser, Sunbury, Australia Linux user #283226 counter.li.org andromeda up 21 days and counting kernel 2.4.21-0.13mdk Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Monday 22 Sep 2003 2:33 pm, Carroll Grigsby wrote: > BTW, from what I read elsewhere, I doubt that your > mother/grandmother would be able to install any breed of Windows > without some serious problems, let alone all of the other apps that > are needed before Windows can do anything useful. > > -- cmg Oi - in the name of all grandmothers - I resemble that remark! Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Monday 22 September 2003 05:25 am, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > Carroll Grigsby schrieb am Sat, 20 Sep 2003 23:31:51 -0400: > > 9.2 is supposed to go final RSN (Monday?), but neither the Mandrake > > home page nor the Mandrake Store have any mention about accepting > > orders for it. There's a thread on the Club Forum about this (and yes, > > I did add my two cents worth), but no response has been forthcoming > > from anyone at Mandrake. > > Just FYI: > > According to reliable information, received today from Gaël Duval, there > will be pre-order options available RSN, as usual in the MandrakeStore. > > wobo wobo: Thank you very much. Blessed are the peacemakers. -- cmg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Monday 22 September 2003 07:52 am, Bryan Phinney wrote: >>> whack > That having been said, I still don't see this as being applicable to the > discussion. Unless we are suggesting that Mandrake Linux is installable > and configurable by an unsophisticated user who would be the person most > likely to purchase an OS from a retail chain, the the existence of retail > boxed sets is immaterial. Assume for an instant that your mother or > grandmother were to purchase Mandrake from a retail chain, do you think > that the experience installing and configuring will be fair to the > distribution and recommend further purchases by others? I started with a copy of Mandrake 7.0 PowerPack at the local Staples. Took it home, installed it, and went surfing -- within an hour or so. I had done some research about installation and hardware beforehand (and I had both a blank HD and PartitionMagic available), but the ease of installation blew me away. I continued to buy each new version at some local store until 8.1, when I started to buy from the Store to give Mandrake a bigger share of my bucks. I'd suggest that the way to look at the mass market chains (office supply places, bookstores, CompUSA, etc) is that those outlets get the Mandrake name out where people see it. While the Mandrake name is well known and well liked within the Linux community, I submit that it is largely unknown in the outside world. BTW, from what I read elsewhere, I doubt that your mother/grandmother would be able to install any breed of Windows without some serious problems, let alone all of the other apps that are needed before Windows can do anything useful. -- cmg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Monday 22 September 2003 12:16 am, Vincent Danen wrote: > I really have nothing to add to this thread other than one thought (I'm > taking a back seat in this one... it's not worth it for me to open my mouth > since I'm not in marketing... I've also only begun to read the thread for > "moderator" purposes). > > If most people in North America, or the US, feel this way, then let me pose > this question. Why has Red Hat then, the most well-known Linux vendor in > the US, decided that they are getting out of the retail box market, if this > is in fact the case? Seems to me that if Mandrake has stupid marketing > folks, then Red Hat must as well. However, considering Red Hat's revenues > are also increasing, it would seem to me that they think this is viable and > will not hurt the business. > > So which is right? Not that I want to get drawn into this conversation but comparisons with Red Hat only work if the targeted market is the same. Red Hat, IIRC markets its distribution to businesses, specializing in corporate and small business environments and specifically target servers. Those customers probably purchase retail boxed sets pretty rarely, they have dedicated IT personnel to install and support, in most cases, and they are probably not sending the local CEO or owner out to a store to buy a boxed Red Hat set and install it on all of their business servers. Not to mention that a pre-packaged installation is probably not valid for most servers in any case. Mandrake, IIRC, is marketing itself more to consumers and as a desktop alternative, not simply as a server alternative. On the desktop, one is more likely to see a consumer go to a retail store and purchase a boxed set than for a business. That having been said, I still don't see this as being applicable to the discussion. Unless we are suggesting that Mandrake Linux is installable and configurable by an unsophisticated user who would be the person most likely to purchase an OS from a retail chain, the the existence of retail boxed sets is immaterial. Assume for an instant that your mother or grandmother were to purchase Mandrake from a retail chain, do you think that the experience installing and configuring will be fair to the distribution and recommend further purchases by others? I like Mandrake and think that it is one of the easiest of all Linux distributions to work with and I have worked with several others including Red Hat, Knoppix, Debian, Mepis, etc. Still, knowing end users as I do, I would not expect a casual user to get very far trying to properly configure Linux of any flavor. I am not the most technical of persons, but I do work in the IT field and run Linux. I do NOT buy software from retail outlets. I research packages and either buy online or find open source alternatives. Either way, I do not know anyone that I would expect to be able to configure and run Linux adequately that would purchase software from a retail outlet. If I were trying to market this, I would attempt to get the OS pre-loaded, as others have suggested and as I believe that Mandrake is trying to do with HP (a very good move, IMHO). I might also try to produce some easy to use scripts to ease mass installation and configuration in a business environment (perhaps use a script that draws from a text file that contains properties like Samba shares, domain names, machine names, email address, other options) so that admins could quickly setup new machines by pre-populating with the auto install disk and then running the configuration script. The script would place the correct info into configuration files to ease the process of individual personalization of the machine. With the auto install disk and a personalization script, I think that the Mandrake experience would be even better than current disk imaging of alternative-OS (evil-empire) machines. This might make Mandrake more attractive to the corporate desktop crowd and even if Red Hat is the choice for the server, they may choose Mandrake for the desktop. Eventually, desktop might influence server and Mandrake might extend throughout the enterprise. Keep in mind, this is nothing that a savvy admin couldn't do themselves, but having something already made would simply be one more reason to choose this particular distribution. All of that assuming that the corporate desktop is the targeted segment. -- Bryan Phinney Software Test Engineer Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
Carroll Grigsby schrieb am Sat, 20 Sep 2003 23:31:51 -0400: > 9.2 is supposed to go final RSN (Monday?), but neither the Mandrake > home page nor the Mandrake Store have any mention about accepting > orders for it. There's a thread on the Club Forum about this (and yes, > I did add my two cents worth), but no response has been forthcoming > from anyone at Mandrake. Just FYI: According to reliable information, received today from Gaël Duval, there will be pre-order options available RSN, as usual in the MandrakeStore. wobo Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Sun, 2003-09-21 at 21:22, Jason Greenwood wrote: > Hi Vincent, > > Like you, I only just picked up on this thread. However, playing devil's > advocate here, I'd say that RH figures they have enough market > penetration and recognition to drop the costly retail sector. However, 2 > things spring to mind, RH built their repuation and branding on having > those boxed sets available in retail for a LONG TIME. For a long time > they were the ONLY boxed set available and furthermore, that also helped > make their name synonymous with Linux in the U.S. - for right or for > wrong. Second, RH is clearly targetting a a different market than RH - > namely the enterprise. Look how they piss on desktop users with their > mangled KDE etc. ML is going after a different market - the desktop, > whose users reside mainly in the retail space right now. > > Just a few thoughts... > > Cheers > > Jason > PS, I am American (Dual NZ citizen) but have been happily living in New > Zealand for over 8 years now... > > Vincent Danen wrote: > One side, This statement by RH was made before the release of 9 9 is in the stores all that was dropped was the less profitable high end boxed sets. (those costing $100.00 US +) the lower end boxed sets are still on the shelves. James Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Sun Sep 21, 2003 at 10:38:01PM -0400, Mark Weaver wrote:
Folks, this thread ends now. Mark, I'm not picking on just you... I'm
making it a blanket thing... this thread ends *now*.
If there are any postings under this particular thread, any general
nastiness, etc. I will start liberally booting people tomorrow.
No one has to deal with any kind of abuse on this list, and I don't care who
it's from or who started it. A child can start it, but it takes more
children to keep this rolling. Please, all involved, grow up and drop it
like civilized individuals before I have to start dropping subscriptions.
> Rolf Pedersen wrote:
> >
> >
> >HaywireMac wrote:
> >
> >>On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 10:42:37 -0700
> >>Rolf Pedersen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> uttered:
> >>
> >>
> >>>That none of these critics and dreamers has yet provided the world
> >>>with a comparable,
> >>>more profitable linux distribution suggests that, notwithstanding the
> >>>possibilities of a million monkeys typing on a million keyboards for a
> >>>million years, these lists are not the likely source of the proper
> >>>tough decisions Mandrake must make in order to continue in the
> >>>challenging, sometimes hostile, unpredictable corporate environment.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>well, us chattering monkeys should just keep our mouths shut, eh, ralphy
> >>boy?
> >>
> >>LOL!
> >>
> >>anyway, go take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut, ya snot-nosed
> >>bitch, if the sound of those typewriters in keeping you awake, go hide
> >>under a rock and us lowly end-users will try to keep it down a bit.
> >>
> >
> >QED
> >
> >Absent any logical refutation of my points, I suppose this eloquent
> >exposition of your master of profanity will have to do. It seems those
> >whose powers of reason fail to serve must resort to cruder expressions
> >of agression. Alas, it would appear your 'powers' have abandoned you
> >long before the Rice Krispies have lost their snap crackle and pop.
> >
> >Rolf
>
> nah...I think he was simply telling you in language you'd be quick to
> understand that, the original poster IS a card carrying, distro
> purchasing Mandrake User and NOT, as you so rudely put it, a typing
> monkey. So please, go and wipe your nose and pull yer yead outa yer ass
> long enough to Read and understand the printed word before making a
> complete ass of yourself. Wait!...too late since you're obviously
> already a complete ass and the making can't be help. Forgive me...you're
> just being yourself.
>
> --
> Mark
>
> "If necessity is the mother of invention, then who's the father?"
> ---
> Paid for by Penguins against modern appliances(R)
> Linux User Since 1996
> Powered by Mandrake Linux 8.2 & 9.1
> ICQ# 27816299
>
>
> Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft?
> Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
--
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
Online Security Resource Book; http://linsec.ca/
"lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import"
{FE6F2AFD : 88D8 0D23 8D4B 3407 5BD7 66F9 2043 D0E5 FE6F 2AFD}
pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
Hi Vincent, Like you, I only just picked up on this thread. However, playing devil's advocate here, I'd say that RH figures they have enough market penetration and recognition to drop the costly retail sector. However, 2 things spring to mind, RH built their repuation and branding on having those boxed sets available in retail for a LONG TIME. For a long time they were the ONLY boxed set available and furthermore, that also helped make their name synonymous with Linux in the U.S. - for right or for wrong. Second, RH is clearly targetting a a different market than RH - namely the enterprise. Look how they piss on desktop users with their mangled KDE etc. ML is going after a different market - the desktop, whose users reside mainly in the retail space right now. Just a few thoughts... Cheers Jason PS, I am American (Dual NZ citizen) but have been happily living in New Zealand for over 8 years now... Vincent Danen wrote: On Sun Sep 21, 2003 at 03:57:11PM -0700, John Wilson wrote: [...] Sadly, Rolf, having no visible distrubution channel, ie product on physical shelves in bricks and mortar physical stores, will reduce Mandrake to invisibilty in North Amercia. Like it or not, and that applies to MandrakeSoft not you, we North Americans like to hold something in our hands and look at it. Kick its tires as it were. To get people to migrate to Mandrake is a whole lot easier if I have a box in my hand than directl them to a web site to order a package. This may not apply elsewhere on the planet but it does here. And that's the point that those of us who live on this continent have been saying. If boxed sets don't start showing up here it amounts to writing off this market. And that's just the way it is. I do understand the need to cut costs at MandrakeSoft and I do empathize with them on this point. It's just that the wrong marketing decision was made with respect to this part of the world. And that, too, is just the way it is. Perhaps one day we'll be comfortable with the notion of doing most or all our purchasing on line. But given the overhype of the internet on this market and it's abject failure to deliver on that hype it's gonna take a long, long time. I really have nothing to add to this thread other than one thought (I'm taking a back seat in this one... it's not worth it for me to open my mouth since I'm not in marketing... I've also only begun to read the thread for "moderator" purposes). If most people in North America, or the US, feel this way, then let me pose this question. Why has Red Hat then, the most well-known Linux vendor in the US, decided that they are getting out of the retail box market, if this is in fact the case? Seems to me that if Mandrake has stupid marketing folks, then Red Hat must as well. However, considering Red Hat's revenues are also increasing, it would seem to me that they think this is viable and will not hurt the business. So which is right? I'm trying to find where I read this, but so far looking at the PR's on RH's website shows me nothing, so maybe I read it on /. or something (in other words, I'm quite sure I read this as accurate, but until I find the source, don't take it as 100%... this was just something that popped in my mind while reading this). Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Sun Sep 21, 2003 at 03:57:11PM -0700, John Wilson wrote:
[...]
> Sadly, Rolf, having no visible distrubution channel, ie product on physical
> shelves in bricks and mortar physical stores, will reduce Mandrake to
> invisibilty in North Amercia. Like it or not, and that applies to
> MandrakeSoft not you, we North Americans like to hold something in our hands
> and look at it. Kick its tires as it were. To get people to migrate to
> Mandrake is a whole lot easier if I have a box in my hand than directl them
> to a web site to order a package.
>
> This may not apply elsewhere on the planet but it does here. And that's the
> point that those of us who live on this continent have been saying. If boxed
> sets don't start showing up here it amounts to writing off this market. And
> that's just the way it is.
>
> I do understand the need to cut costs at MandrakeSoft and I do empathize with
> them on this point. It's just that the wrong marketing decision was made
> with respect to this part of the world. And that, too, is just the way it
> is.
>
> Perhaps one day we'll be comfortable with the notion of doing most or all our
> purchasing on line. But given the overhype of the internet on this market
> and it's abject failure to deliver on that hype it's gonna take a long, long
> time.
I really have nothing to add to this thread other than one thought (I'm
taking a back seat in this one... it's not worth it for me to open my mouth
since I'm not in marketing... I've also only begun to read the thread for
"moderator" purposes).
If most people in North America, or the US, feel this way, then let me pose
this question. Why has Red Hat then, the most well-known Linux vendor in
the US, decided that they are getting out of the retail box market, if this
is in fact the case? Seems to me that if Mandrake has stupid marketing
folks, then Red Hat must as well. However, considering Red Hat's revenues
are also increasing, it would seem to me that they think this is viable and
will not hurt the business.
So which is right?
I'm trying to find where I read this, but so far looking at the PR's on RH's
website shows me nothing, so maybe I read it on /. or something (in other
words, I'm quite sure I read this as accurate, but until I find the source,
don't take it as 100%... this was just something that popped in my mind
while reading this).
--
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
Online Security Resource Book; http://linsec.ca/
"lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import"
{FE6F2AFD : 88D8 0D23 8D4B 3407 5BD7 66F9 2043 D0E5 FE6F 2AFD}
pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003, Rolf Pedersen wrote: > Actually, it was an allusion to a well-known statement that 'a million > monkeys pounding away on a million typewriters for a million years > would, eventually, type out the complete works of Shakespeare'. > Something like that. Google it. To be direct, it was a way of saying > that I considered it very unlikely that Mandrake's business strategy was > going to be developed via suggestions from this list. Despite what the > foul-mouthed contingent apparently contends, I called noone a monkey. Frankly, I was a bit surprised that that reference was not recognized for what it was, as I thought that pretty much everyone had heard that quote referred to in one forum or another. I must have seen it in three dozen different contexts myself alone (at least); it really gets a lot of play, as it can help one to make a point on so many varied discussion topics. This is especially true in computer-related areas, when the talk turns to software code and the legions of coders that produce it. ;) -- Bill Mullen [EMAIL PROTECTED] MA, USA RLU #270075 MDK 8.1 & 9.0 "Listen, here's the thing. If you can't spot the sucker in your first half hour at the table, then you *are* the sucker." - Mike McDermott Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
Mark Weaver wrote: Rolf Pedersen wrote: HaywireMac wrote: On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 10:42:37 -0700 Rolf Pedersen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> uttered: That none of these critics and dreamers has yet provided the world with a comparable, more profitable linux distribution suggests that, notwithstanding the possibilities of a million monkeys typing on a million keyboards for a million years, these lists are not the likely source of the proper tough decisions Mandrake must make in order to continue in the challenging, sometimes hostile, unpredictable corporate environment. well, us chattering monkeys should just keep our mouths shut, eh, ralphy boy? LOL! anyway, go take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut, ya snot-nosed bitch, if the sound of those typewriters in keeping you awake, go hide under a rock and us lowly end-users will try to keep it down a bit. QED Absent any logical refutation of my points, I suppose this eloquent exposition of your master of profanity will have to do. It seems those whose powers of reason fail to serve must resort to cruder expressions of agression. Alas, it would appear your 'powers' have abandoned you long before the Rice Krispies have lost their snap crackle and pop. Rolf nah...I think he was simply telling you in language you'd be quick to understand that, the original poster IS a card carrying, distro purchasing Mandrake User and NOT, as you so rudely put it, a typing monkey. So please, go and wipe your nose and pull yer yead outa yer ass long enough to Read and understand the printed word before making a complete ass of yourself. Wait!...too late since you're obviously already a complete ass and the making can't be help. Forgive me...you're just being yourself. Actually, it was an allusion to a well-known statement that 'a million monkeys pounding away on a million typewriters for a million years would, eventually, type out the complete works of Shakespeare'. Something like that. Google it. To be direct, it was a way of saying that I considered it very unlikely that Mandrake's business strategy was going to be developed via suggestions from this list. Despite what the foul-mouthed contingent apparently contends, I called noone a monkey. Rolf Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
Rolf Pedersen wrote: HaywireMac wrote: On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 10:42:37 -0700 Rolf Pedersen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> uttered: That none of these critics and dreamers has yet provided the world with a comparable, more profitable linux distribution suggests that, notwithstanding the possibilities of a million monkeys typing on a million keyboards for a million years, these lists are not the likely source of the proper tough decisions Mandrake must make in order to continue in the challenging, sometimes hostile, unpredictable corporate environment. well, us chattering monkeys should just keep our mouths shut, eh, ralphy boy? LOL! anyway, go take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut, ya snot-nosed bitch, if the sound of those typewriters in keeping you awake, go hide under a rock and us lowly end-users will try to keep it down a bit. QED Absent any logical refutation of my points, I suppose this eloquent exposition of your master of profanity will have to do. It seems those whose powers of reason fail to serve must resort to cruder expressions of agression. Alas, it would appear your 'powers' have abandoned you long before the Rice Krispies have lost their snap crackle and pop. Rolf nah...I think he was simply telling you in language you'd be quick to understand that, the original poster IS a card carrying, distro purchasing Mandrake User and NOT, as you so rudely put it, a typing monkey. So please, go and wipe your nose and pull yer yead outa yer ass long enough to Read and understand the printed word before making a complete ass of yourself. Wait!...too late since you're obviously already a complete ass and the making can't be help. Forgive me...you're just being yourself. -- Mark "If necessity is the mother of invention, then who's the father?" --- Paid for by Penguins against modern appliances(R) Linux User Since 1996 Powered by Mandrake Linux 8.2 & 9.1 ICQ# 27816299 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Sun, 2003-09-21 at 19:33, Praedor Atrebates wrote: > On Sunday 21 September 2003 05:57 pm, John Wilson wrote: > > On September 21, 2003 02:44 pm, Rolf Pedersen wrote: > > > Lee Wiggers wrote: > > > > On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 13:56:53 -0700 > > > > James Sparenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > It is nice to have boxes on shelves but it just doesn't make enough money to > offset the cost of production. Not even Redhat makes money from users buying > boxed sets on store shelves (can't recall where I read that even Redhat was > considering dropping the boxed sets too at some possible point). I just don't buy that it can not be done. I do not see it as no profit, I see it as not as much profit for the capital outlay. Not every airline sees it as a good idea to own the planes, some lease to 'preserve capital'. not every distro has to print and distribute their own box, some things get contracted out some times markets for things like distribution change with differing market values due to slightly increased competition. > I do think that it would be a good idea, however, to get boxed Mandrake sets > on school bookstore shelves. This is where you will win users and they will > get to the point of having no problem downloading future versions later. > I would buy and download Mandrake if I had a broadband connection but as it > is, I am willing to buy from Mandrake online and wait for delivery of a box. > It is faster than downloading iso images over a modem connection. > > Another thing to aim for is preinstalls. If you could get a computer > distributor to offer Mandrake as its linux offering you would help things out > too. > > praedor -- ++ Mandrake HowTo's & More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On September 21, 2003 04:25 pm, Rolf Pedersen wrote: > I don't know if you think I am from some other continent but I am in > Oakland, CA, USA. It might be the majority of North Americans would > rather buy a pack in a store but I am here, I bought the 7.1 Power Pack > online from a nearby reseller, and I have downloaded ever since. > > Linux (as experienced through Mandrake, mostly) is hardly without > substantial discomfort due to a rapid rate of change. There are changes > in the software, in how things are done, in things being not where you > have just learned to find them. As an advocate, I would suggest that > those who think it would be a good thing to continue to use Mandrake in > future should accomodate this one further increment of change discomfort > by finding a way to support Mandrake that Mandrake can currently afford > to do. I do the best I can in that regard. Given the engrained preferences I noted before it's a hard slog. After some 6 months of talking to a couple of small business people about it both have now decided to try Mandrake but that took the Blaster worm to nudge them over the edge. Actually I started a bit earlier with 5.2 PowerPack and started downloading at 8.0. And I've been a club member since that started, though currently not. (In case you think I'm freeloading, I intend to renew at the first opportunity. :-) ) And, after I sent the reply I did look at your email addy and discovered you are in the USA. Actually I'm just up the coast in Vancouver, BC, Canada. So we're practically neighbours. (We get that feeling of a ton of long lost relatives in the summer here when CA license plates seem to outnumber our own. :-) ) At the moment little is stable, as you note. A lot of Linux distros are reinventing themselves with RedHat targeting the medium to large corporations and service contracts through their partnerships with IBM among others. SuSE appears to be scattering itself across the board but doing so with lots of promotion and a very polished distro. Mandrake is a different ballgame, in the sense that it has to refocus on its core business after running off in a whole pile of different directions under some previous management. And it really is the only choice we have to support them even if we disagree with some of the choices they have made. I do want this distro to survive. As for relearning, that isn't unique to Linux. Pity the poor people who have to deal with M$oft who change things with their patches. But the relearning here is one more of rapid maturity than some sort of control-freak paranoia and then the sense that things can be extended to areas that haven't been done, at least properly, before. The joy of Linux and of Mandrake in particular is one of continued experimentation and the involvement of the community. Both great things. Let's continue to both have that aim in mind and, with respect to the idea of boxes on shelves, agree to disagree with some degree of respect for each others position. ttfn John Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 14:39:31 -0600 Vincent Danen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> uttered: > This isn't usenet. The above comments are not appropriate for this > forum. You may disagree with what he had to say, and that's fine, but > to use that language is entirely unacceptable. Oh I see, he can call the users here a bunch of chattering monkeys, but I'm using inappropriate language. Fuck you too. -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org ++ Mandrake HowTo's & More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ God is the tangential point between zero and infinity. -- Alfred Jarry Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Sunday 21 September 2003 05:57 pm, John Wilson wrote: > On September 21, 2003 02:44 pm, Rolf Pedersen wrote: > > Lee Wiggers wrote: > > > On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 13:56:53 -0700 > > > James Sparenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > [..] > > > > >>The moral of the story is. In order to sell a product the doors > > >>need to be open to customers. [...] > > > My point exactly...entirely. I understand the passionate defense. > > > I don't understand the lack of product. > > > > > > Mandrake is far better at giving things away than selling them. > > > That's not a bad thing. [...] > This may not apply elsewhere on the planet but it does here. And that's > the point that those of us who live on this continent have been saying. If > boxed sets don't start showing up here it amounts to writing off this > market. And that's just the way it is. [...] It is nice to have boxes on shelves but it just doesn't make enough money to offset the cost of production. Not even Redhat makes money from users buying boxed sets on store shelves (can't recall where I read that even Redhat was considering dropping the boxed sets too at some possible point). I do think that it would be a good idea, however, to get boxed Mandrake sets on school bookstore shelves. This is where you will win users and they will get to the point of having no problem downloading future versions later. I would buy and download Mandrake if I had a broadband connection but as it is, I am willing to buy from Mandrake online and wait for delivery of a box. It is faster than downloading iso images over a modem connection. Another thing to aim for is preinstalls. If you could get a computer distributor to offer Mandrake as its linux offering you would help things out too. praedor -- Key fingerprint = D6F9 8682 2257 2871 10C6 DB92 6F50 8BBA B100 EB15 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
John Wilson wrote: Sadly, Rolf, having no visible distrubution channel, ie product on physical shelves in bricks and mortar physical stores, will reduce Mandrake to invisibilty in North Amercia. Like it or not, and that applies to MandrakeSoft not you, we North Americans like to hold something in our hands and look at it. Kick its tires as it were. To get people to migrate to Mandrake is a whole lot easier if I have a box in my hand than directl them to a web site to order a package. This may not apply elsewhere on the planet but it does here. And that's the point that those of us who live on this continent have been saying. If boxed sets don't start showing up here it amounts to writing off this market. And that's just the way it is. I do understand the need to cut costs at MandrakeSoft and I do empathize with them on this point. It's just that the wrong marketing decision was made with respect to this part of the world. And that, too, is just the way it is. Perhaps one day we'll be comfortable with the notion of doing most or all our purchasing on line. But given the overhype of the internet on this market and it's abject failure to deliver on that hype it's gonna take a long, long time. ttfn John I don't know if you think I am from some other continent but I am in Oakland, CA, USA. It might be the majority of North Americans would rather buy a pack in a store but I am here, I bought the 7.1 Power Pack online from a nearby reseller, and I have downloaded ever since. Linux (as experienced through Mandrake, mostly) is hardly without substantial discomfort due to a rapid rate of change. There are changes in the software, in how things are done, in things being not where you have just learned to find them. As an advocate, I would suggest that those who think it would be a good thing to continue to use Mandrake in future should accomodate this one further increment of change discomfort by finding a way to support Mandrake that Mandrake can currently afford to do. Rolf Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On September 21, 2003 02:44 pm, Rolf Pedersen wrote: > Lee Wiggers wrote: > > On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 13:56:53 -0700 > > James Sparenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > [..] > > >>The moral of the story is. In order to sell a product the doors > >>need to be open to customers. > >> > >>James > > > > My point exactly...entirely. I understand the passionate defense. > > I don't understand the lack of product. > > > > Mandrake is far better at giving things away than selling them. > > That's not a bad thing. > > > > Think I'll go lurk for a couple of more years. I get smarter > > listening than talking. > > > > Lee > > > "Consolidated gross margins for the first half year increased by 24%. > This significant increase reflects an important change in revenue sources: > > # Increase in high margin revenue lines such as OEM, on-line sales and > subscriptions to MandrakeLinux Users Club (from 40% to 63% of > consolidated revenue), > # Decrease in retail sales (from 51% to 27% of consolidated revenue)." > > Rolf Sadly, Rolf, having no visible distrubution channel, ie product on physical shelves in bricks and mortar physical stores, will reduce Mandrake to invisibilty in North Amercia. Like it or not, and that applies to MandrakeSoft not you, we North Americans like to hold something in our hands and look at it. Kick its tires as it were. To get people to migrate to Mandrake is a whole lot easier if I have a box in my hand than directl them to a web site to order a package. This may not apply elsewhere on the planet but it does here. And that's the point that those of us who live on this continent have been saying. If boxed sets don't start showing up here it amounts to writing off this market. And that's just the way it is. I do understand the need to cut costs at MandrakeSoft and I do empathize with them on this point. It's just that the wrong marketing decision was made with respect to this part of the world. And that, too, is just the way it is. Perhaps one day we'll be comfortable with the notion of doing most or all our purchasing on line. But given the overhype of the internet on this market and it's abject failure to deliver on that hype it's gonna take a long, long time. ttfn John Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Sun, 2003-09-21 at 18:27, Rolf Pedersen wrote: > ed tharp wrote: taken either to private or the OT list at Rolf's discretion Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 14:44:31 -0700 Rolf Pedersen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Lee Wiggers wrote: > > On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 13:56:53 -0700 > > James Sparenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [..] > >>The moral of the story is. In order to sell a product the doors > >>need to be open to customers. > >> > >>James > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > My point exactly...entirely. I understand the passionate > > defense. I don't understand the lack of product. > > > > Mandrake is far better at giving things away than selling them. > > That's not a bad thing. > > > > Think I'll go lurk for a couple of more years. I get smarter > > listening than talking. > > > > Lee > > > > I thought the link to the Shareholders newsletter and the direct > quote in my post provided some explanation for the changing face > of Mandrake's distribution channels. Wobo, IIRC, also has alluded > to the possibly risky capital investment needed for box > production/distribution having made that avenue less of a > short-term solution. Have these suggestions no credibility? That > quote from the newsletter, in part: > > "Consolidated gross margins for the first half year increased by > 24%. This significant increase reflects an important change in > revenue sources: > > # Increase in high margin revenue lines such as OEM, on-line sales > and subscriptions to MandrakeLinux Users Club (from 40% to 63% of > consolidated revenue), > # Decrease in retail sales (from 51% to 27% of consolidated > revenue)." > > Rolf > > > Damn lurking is harder than talking. Rolf, I don't disagree with you, but my experiences with boxed sets, club, that mdk store, and the voices of many others still leave me with the feeling than mdk gives far better than they sell. The product is superior, the marketing is underwhelming. I swear that's my last word. Lee Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
ed tharp wrote: On Sun, 2003-09-21 at 16:35, Rolf Pedersen wrote: Well, you attribute to me only what Haywire quoted for his ends; not really that was all that was quoted, but I feel pretty confidant that I was also replying to the over all tenor of your post, and only since you brought up the 'a comparable, more profitable linux distribution' argument, which _is_ what I responded directly to. You responded to what you read, including Haywire's interpretation, which hardly does anything to clarify my points. What I was trying to say about noone providing something similar to what Mandrake does was meant to imply only that, perhaps, so many who are so quick to try to explain what Mandrake's problem is should do what Mandrake have done before making what are really uninformed, insulting comments about the company and the developers. I see it as insulting when comments are made that imply such as what Wiggers said about the people who make the distro, that they are incompetent or, generally, such facile suggestions are all that Mandrake is missing. Maybe that's just me. [..] Personally, I am tired of seeing both the speculative hypotheses of how Mandrake is screwing up and how to fix it on_this_list. then maybe a filter for this thread would work for you?? Thanks for the condescending suggestion. Quite a while ago, on Mandrake Forum, Denis mused whether he was wasting time responding to the anonymous coward Mandrake bashers. I posted that I thought he should provide his alternate viewpoint as, if the FUD went unchallenged, those who didn't know better could very well adopt the FUD as truth. I don't make a habit of stirring the pot but I have made some hundreds of posts to the lists, probably, when I thought I had something to offer or to learn, as well as almost 3 thousand posts to the old MandrakeUser.org forum, where I had become a moderator before its demise. My involvement is such that I am not always going to simply ignore what seems to me to be uninformed/insulting comments about the distribution I would like to succeed. Rolf ET Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Sun, 2003-09-21 at 16:35, Rolf Pedersen wrote: > > > Well, you attribute to me only what Haywire quoted for his ends; not really that was all that was quoted, but I feel pretty confidant that I was also replying to the over all tenor of your post, and only since you brought up the 'a comparable, more profitable linux distribution' argument, which _is_ what I responded directly to. > hardly > fair. Did you read my original post? yes > I explicitly quoted Lee Wiggers: > Such comments as Mandrake 'don't try to make money' or 'shoot itself in > the foot over and over again' are not, to my mind, particularly kind, > productive, or even accurate. > and went on to provide some documentation to the contrary. Please read > that. I did, > I have been on these lists long enough to see the same story play out > over and over again. I'm sorry but I don't think developing alternate > distribution strategies is a practical topic for this list. I agree, this list should not be discussing distribution methods at all, and that includes problems with the mandrake store,,, and I do know... "but it ain't a perfect world"... > It's the > sort of topic that has not yielded anything but OT ruminations for the > three-and-a-half years that I am aware. I agree, but as far as _I_ have known, Mandrake had an agreement with McMillian for distribution, but ended it withing the three year period you are referring to. And _I_ have never considered doing anything as far as organizing an alternate method of distribution for Mandrakesoft, since _I_ did not want to step on any toes, or re-invent the same wheel that someone working as a mandrake soft employee was doing. > Personally, I am tired of > seeing both the speculative hypotheses of how Mandrake is screwing up > and how to fix it on_this_list. then maybe a filter for this thread would work for you?? > Maybe something could be accomplished > but that is not born out by history and the noise is not justified by > the small chance that that it will happen. yep, woulda, coulda and shoulda I know those guys well... > I made a number of points that further include my observation that > facile criticism and reasons for downloading without paying anything > go, in large part, hand-in-hand. Not even to say that anyone in this > thread practices such a thing but that, to allow such criticisms to go > unchallenged, in my way of thinking, is to only make it easier for > leechers to think they have a reason. > > Rolf > > > > > Really I think almost everyone that contributed to this thread would > > rather shut up than have someone take the quote out of context and have > > it sound as though they were not "pro-mandrake", but I also believe > > everyone that I have seen contribute to _this_ thread, so far, has > > already _earned_ the right to speak their mind on this subject, haywire > > excluded due to lack of mind, not lack of earned right. > > > > So, that said, I am willing to take input (off list) from anyone with > > contacts or ideas, regarding the ability to distribute and print CDs and > > make sales to the major distributors in the USA of retail software, and > > even if I don't respond to your input, I welcome and promise to read it. > > > > I want it made clear that nothing will happen without the consent of > > Mandrakesoft, even though I know I can take the GPL version and do just > > as cheepbytes does, and that whatever (if anything) does come of it, it > > will be to AID Mandrakesoft. > > > > ET > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? > > Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com > > > > __ > > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? > Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- ++ Mandrake HowTo's & More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
Lee Wiggers wrote: On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 13:56:53 -0700 James Sparenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [..] The moral of the story is. In order to sell a product the doors need to be open to customers. James My point exactly...entirely. I understand the passionate defense. I don't understand the lack of product. Mandrake is far better at giving things away than selling them. That's not a bad thing. Think I'll go lurk for a couple of more years. I get smarter listening than talking. Lee I thought the link to the Shareholders newsletter and the direct quote in my post provided some explanation for the changing face of Mandrake's distribution channels. Wobo, IIRC, also has alluded to the possibly risky capital investment needed for box production/distribution having made that avenue less of a short-term solution. Have these suggestions no credibility? That quote from the newsletter, in part: "Consolidated gross margins for the first half year increased by 24%. This significant increase reflects an important change in revenue sources: # Increase in high margin revenue lines such as OEM, on-line sales and subscriptions to MandrakeLinux Users Club (from 40% to 63% of consolidated revenue), # Decrease in retail sales (from 51% to 27% of consolidated revenue)." Rolf Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 13:56:53 -0700 James Sparenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sun, 2003-09-21 at 13:39, Vincent Danen wrote: > > On Sun Sep 21, 2003 at 02:48:55PM -0400, HaywireMac wrote: > > > > > Rolf Pedersen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> uttered: > > > > > > > That none of these critics and dreamers has yet provided > > > > the world with a comparable, > > > > more profitable linux distribution suggests that, > > > > notwithstanding the possibilities of a million monkeys > > > > typing on a million keyboards for a million years, these > > > > lists are not the likely source of the proper tough > > > > decisions Mandrake must make in order to continue in the > > > > challenging, sometimes hostile, unpredictable corporate > > > > environment. > > > > > > well, us chattering monkeys should just keep our mouths shut, > > > eh, ralphy boy? > > > > > > LOL! > > > > > > anyway, go take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut, ya > > > snot-nosed bitch, if the sound of those typewriters in keeping > > > you awake, go hide under a rock and us lowly end-users will > > > try to keep it down a bit. > > > > This isn't usenet. The above comments are not appropriate for > > this forum. You may disagree with what he had to say, and that's > > fine, but to use that language is entirely unacceptable. > > > > Do not do it again. > > Saying shutup was I admit unbecoming. Sorry. within 2 weeks I > will be losing house car, internet etc etc. Yet I'm sitting here > running multiple boxes with MDK and every single one of them is > running Mandrake that is bought and paid for, and bought and paid > for, for that box. So to say the least I resent the implications > that I or any one else is not doing enough for Mandrake. This is > one of the reasons I won't be running 9.2. I can't afford it. Is > MDK shooting itself in the foot. Quite often . yes. If they > weren't they wouldn't have gotten into the mess they are in, in > the first place. Some of the responsible parties are gone. Some > are not. Granted they aren't as brilliant as SCO or Verisign. > But they have made some monumental blunders over the last 6 years. > They have also made some tremendously good moves. > > However one thing I've noticed in every nuance of this thread. > People are complaining about not having enough access to BUY > Mandrake. Not that they have to, but that they can't, or that if > they can it's an extreme hassle. I'm reminded of a story my > father told about one day about 11am he began to wonder why they > hadn't seen a customer for about an hour. Since it was an > extremly hot day most of the sales people where not hanging out > close to the front windows, rather further back into the store > where the air conditioning was working better. Turns out the > reason was simple. The "gate" (pull down style) had malfunctioned > and came crashing down making it look like the store was closed. > > The moral of the story is. In order to sell a product the doors > need to be open to customers. > > James > > > > My point exactly...entirely. I understand the passionate defense. I don't understand the lack of product. Mandrake is far better at giving things away than selling them. That's not a bad thing. Think I'll go lurk for a couple of more years. I get smarter listening than talking. Lee Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Sun, 2003-09-21 at 13:39, Vincent Danen wrote: > On Sun Sep 21, 2003 at 02:48:55PM -0400, HaywireMac wrote: > > > Rolf Pedersen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> uttered: > > > > > That none of these critics and dreamers has yet provided the world > > > with a comparable, > > > more profitable linux distribution suggests that, notwithstanding the > > > possibilities of a million monkeys typing on a million keyboards for a > > > million years, these lists are not the likely source of the proper > > > tough decisions Mandrake must make in order to continue in the > > > challenging, sometimes hostile, unpredictable corporate environment. > > > > well, us chattering monkeys should just keep our mouths shut, eh, ralphy > > boy? > > > > LOL! > > > > anyway, go take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut, ya snot-nosed > > bitch, if the sound of those typewriters in keeping you awake, go hide > > under a rock and us lowly end-users will try to keep it down a bit. > > This isn't usenet. The above comments are not appropriate for this forum. > You may disagree with what he had to say, and that's fine, but to use that > language is entirely unacceptable. > > Do not do it again. Saying shutup was I admit unbecoming. Sorry. within 2 weeks I will be losing house car, internet etc etc. Yet I'm sitting here running multiple boxes with MDK and every single one of them is running Mandrake that is bought and paid for, and bought and paid for, for that box. So to say the least I resent the implications that I or any one else is not doing enough for Mandrake. This is one of the reasons I won't be running 9.2. I can't afford it. Is MDK shooting itself in the foot. Quite often . yes. If they weren't they wouldn't have gotten into the mess they are in, in the first place. Some of the responsible parties are gone. Some are not. Granted they aren't as brilliant as SCO or Verisign. But they have made some monumental blunders over the last 6 years. They have also made some tremendously good moves. However one thing I've noticed in every nuance of this thread. People are complaining about not having enough access to BUY Mandrake. Not that they have to, but that they can't, or that if they can it's an extreme hassle. I'm reminded of a story my father told about one day about 11am he began to wonder why they hadn't seen a customer for about an hour. Since it was an extremly hot day most of the sales people where not hanging out close to the front windows, rather further back into the store where the air conditioning was working better. Turns out the reason was simple. The "gate" (pull down style) had malfunctioned and came crashing down making it look like the store was closed. The moral of the story is. In order to sell a product the doors need to be open to customers. James Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Sun Sep 21, 2003 at 12:57:57PM -0700, James Sparenberg wrote:
[...]
> Excuse me.. But how about this both of you shut up I'm tired of
> wah and whine. end it here and now. Too bad Todd isn't around to start
> blocking.
You don't need Todd for that. I am perfectly capable of removing
individuals from the list should they warrant it.
--
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
Online Security Resource Book; http://linsec.ca/
"lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import"
{FE6F2AFD : 88D8 0D23 8D4B 3407 5BD7 66F9 2043 D0E5 FE6F 2AFD}
pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Sun Sep 21, 2003 at 02:48:55PM -0400, HaywireMac wrote:
> Rolf Pedersen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> uttered:
>
> > That none of these critics and dreamers has yet provided the world
> > with a comparable,
> > more profitable linux distribution suggests that, notwithstanding the
> > possibilities of a million monkeys typing on a million keyboards for a
> > million years, these lists are not the likely source of the proper
> > tough decisions Mandrake must make in order to continue in the
> > challenging, sometimes hostile, unpredictable corporate environment.
>
> well, us chattering monkeys should just keep our mouths shut, eh, ralphy
> boy?
>
> LOL!
>
> anyway, go take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut, ya snot-nosed
> bitch, if the sound of those typewriters in keeping you awake, go hide
> under a rock and us lowly end-users will try to keep it down a bit.
This isn't usenet. The above comments are not appropriate for this forum.
You may disagree with what he had to say, and that's fine, but to use that
language is entirely unacceptable.
Do not do it again.
--
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
Online Security Resource Book; http://linsec.ca/
"lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import"
{FE6F2AFD : 88D8 0D23 8D4B 3407 5BD7 66F9 2043 D0E5 FE6F 2AFD}
pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
ed tharp wrote: On Sun, 2003-09-21 at 15:13, Rolf Pedersen wrote: HaywireMac wrote: On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 10:42:37 -0700 Rolf Pedersen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> uttered: That none of these critics and dreamers has yet provided the world with a comparable, more profitable linux distribution suggests that, notwithstanding the possibilities of a million monkeys typing on a million keyboards for a million years, these lists are not the likely source of the proper tough decisions Mandrake must make in order to continue in the challenging, sometimes hostile, unpredictable corporate environment. well, us chattering monkeys should just keep our mouths shut, eh, ralphy boy? LOL! anyway, go take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut, ya snot-nosed bitch, if the sound of those typewriters in keeping you awake, go hide under a rock and us lowly end-users will try to keep it down a bit. QED Absent any logical refutation of my points, I suppose this eloquent exposition of your master of profanity will have to do. It seems those whose powers of reason fail to serve must resort to cruder expressions of agression. Alas, it would appear your 'powers' have abandoned you long before the Rice Krispies have lost their snap crackle and pop. Rolf Well, Far be it from me to have to appear to defend Haywire, but to a logical "refutation" of your points, ,,, "That none of these critics and dreamers has yet provided the world with a comparable, more profitable linux distribution" Well that might be _YOUR_ point, but as someone who has posted somewhat earlier in this thread, and to who's posts you may (it appears) be responding to before this latest input from Hatewire,, errr,,, Hey-wire, it never was the intent of anyone (before you interjected) to create a _new_ or different product,, (you seem to have that on your mind from my reading) as we are pretty sure the product tests out to be the best available,,, what we are discussing is any manner that the members of this group can CONSTRUCTIVELY contribute their own areas of expertise in some manner that will NOT reinvent the wheel, or interfere with the business of Mandrakesoft. Well, you attribute to me only what Haywire quoted for his ends; hardly fair. Did you read my original post? I explicitly quoted Lee Wiggers: Such comments as Mandrake 'don't try to make money' or 'shoot itself in the foot over and over again' are not, to my mind, particularly kind, productive, or even accurate. and went on to provide some documentation to the contrary. Please read that. I have been on these lists long enough to see the same story play out over and over again. I'm sorry but I don't think developing alternate distribution strategies is a practical topic for this list. It's the sort of topic that has not yielded anything but OT ruminations for the three-and-a-half years that I am aware. Personally, I am tired of seeing both the speculative hypotheses of how Mandrake is screwing up and how to fix it on_this_list. Maybe something could be accomplished but that is not born out by history and the noise is not justified by the small chance that that it will happen. I made a number of points that further include my observation that facile criticism and reasons for downloading without paying anything go, in large part, hand-in-hand. Not even to say that anyone in this thread practices such a thing but that, to allow such criticisms to go unchallenged, in my way of thinking, is to only make it easier for leechers to think they have a reason. Rolf Really I think almost everyone that contributed to this thread would rather shut up than have someone take the quote out of context and have it sound as though they were not "pro-mandrake", but I also believe everyone that I have seen contribute to _this_ thread, so far, has already _earned_ the right to speak their mind on this subject, haywire excluded due to lack of mind, not lack of earned right. So, that said, I am willing to take input (off list) from anyone with contacts or ideas, regarding the ability to distribute and print CDs and make sales to the major distributors in the USA of retail software, and even if I don't respond to your input, I welcome and promise to read it. I want it made clear that nothing will happen without the consent of Mandrakesoft, even though I know I can take the GPL version and do just as cheepbytes does, and that whatever (if anything) does come of it, it will be to AID Mandrakesoft. ET Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
James Sparenberg wrote: On Sun, 2003-09-21 at 12:13, Rolf Pedersen wrote: HaywireMac wrote: On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 10:42:37 -0700 Rolf Pedersen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> uttered: That none of these critics and dreamers has yet provided the world with a comparable, more profitable linux distribution suggests that, notwithstanding the possibilities of a million monkeys typing on a million keyboards for a million years, these lists are not the likely source of the proper tough decisions Mandrake must make in order to continue in the challenging, sometimes hostile, unpredictable corporate environment. well, us chattering monkeys should just keep our mouths shut, eh, ralphy boy? LOL! anyway, go take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut, ya snot-nosed bitch, if the sound of those typewriters in keeping you awake, go hide under a rock and us lowly end-users will try to keep it down a bit. QED Absent any logical refutation of my points, I suppose this eloquent exposition of your master of profanity will have to do. It seems those whose powers of reason fail to serve must resort to cruder expressions of agression. Alas, it would appear your 'powers' have abandoned you long before the Rice Krispies have lost their snap crackle and pop. Rolf Excuse me.. But how about this both of you shut up I'm tired of wah and whine. end it here and now. Too bad Todd isn't around to start blocking. Why? I have to sift through endless diverted threads comprised only of clever personal asides, not to mention your own use of this list to inject innuendo about your real or imagined mistreatment on the cooker list. Why is that I must read all the uninformed conjecture and projection about the terrible job Mandrake is doing and, when I provide some intelligence to the contrary, when I step up to provide part of what is the minority defense of Mandrake to what is already an innapropriate body of not more than FUD, I should tolerate such a vulgar attack and your own threat-by-proxy lest I abandon my viewpoint, just because it does not cleave to your espousals, apparently? It's an open list and, like I say, I'm paying for it. Rolf James Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Sun, 2003-09-21 at 15:13, Rolf Pedersen wrote: > HaywireMac wrote: > > On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 10:42:37 -0700 > > Rolf Pedersen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> uttered: > > > > > >> That none of these critics and dreamers has yet provided the world > >> with a comparable, > >>more profitable linux distribution suggests that, notwithstanding the > >>possibilities of a million monkeys typing on a million keyboards for a > >>million years, these lists are not the likely source of the proper > >>tough decisions Mandrake must make in order to continue in the > >>challenging, sometimes hostile, unpredictable corporate environment. > > > > > > well, us chattering monkeys should just keep our mouths shut, eh, ralphy > > boy? > > > > LOL! > > > > anyway, go take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut, ya snot-nosed > > bitch, if the sound of those typewriters in keeping you awake, go hide > > under a rock and us lowly end-users will try to keep it down a bit. > > > > QED > > Absent any logical refutation of my points, I suppose this eloquent > exposition of your master of profanity will have to do. It seems those > whose powers of reason fail to serve must resort to cruder expressions > of agression. Alas, it would appear your 'powers' have abandoned you > long before the Rice Krispies have lost their snap crackle and pop. > > Rolf > > Well, Far be it from me to have to appear to defend Haywire, but to a logical "refutation" of your points, ,,, "That none of these critics and dreamers has yet provided the world with a comparable, more profitable linux distribution" Well that might be _YOUR_ point, but as someone who has posted somewhat earlier in this thread, and to who's posts you may (it appears) be responding to before this latest input from Hatewire,, errr,,, Hey-wire, it never was the intent of anyone (before you interjected) to create a _new_ or different product,, (you seem to have that on your mind from my reading) as we are pretty sure the product tests out to be the best available,,, what we are discussing is any manner that the members of this group can CONSTRUCTIVELY contribute their own areas of expertise in some manner that will NOT reinvent the wheel, or interfere with the business of Mandrakesoft. Really I think almost everyone that contributed to this thread would rather shut up than have someone take the quote out of context and have it sound as though they were not "pro-mandrake", but I also believe everyone that I have seen contribute to _this_ thread, so far, has already _earned_ the right to speak their mind on this subject, haywire excluded due to lack of mind, not lack of earned right. So, that said, I am willing to take input (off list) from anyone with contacts or ideas, regarding the ability to distribute and print CDs and make sales to the major distributors in the USA of retail software, and even if I don't respond to your input, I welcome and promise to read it. I want it made clear that nothing will happen without the consent of Mandrakesoft, even though I know I can take the GPL version and do just as cheepbytes does, and that whatever (if anything) does come of it, it will be to AID Mandrakesoft. ET Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Sun, 2003-09-21 at 12:13, Rolf Pedersen wrote: > HaywireMac wrote: > > On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 10:42:37 -0700 > > Rolf Pedersen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> uttered: > > > > > >> That none of these critics and dreamers has yet provided the world > >> with a comparable, > >>more profitable linux distribution suggests that, notwithstanding the > >>possibilities of a million monkeys typing on a million keyboards for a > >>million years, these lists are not the likely source of the proper > >>tough decisions Mandrake must make in order to continue in the > >>challenging, sometimes hostile, unpredictable corporate environment. > > > > > > well, us chattering monkeys should just keep our mouths shut, eh, ralphy > > boy? > > > > LOL! > > > > anyway, go take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut, ya snot-nosed > > bitch, if the sound of those typewriters in keeping you awake, go hide > > under a rock and us lowly end-users will try to keep it down a bit. > > > > QED > > Absent any logical refutation of my points, I suppose this eloquent > exposition of your master of profanity will have to do. It seems those > whose powers of reason fail to serve must resort to cruder expressions > of agression. Alas, it would appear your 'powers' have abandoned you > long before the Rice Krispies have lost their snap crackle and pop. > > Rolf > Excuse me.. But how about this both of you shut up I'm tired of wah and whine. end it here and now. Too bad Todd isn't around to start blocking. James > > > __ > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? > Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Sun, 2003-09-21 at 12:13, Rolf Pedersen wrote: > HaywireMac wrote: ... break it up, break it up, take it outside. nothing to see here folks, move along. -- Jack Coates Monkeynoodle: A Scientific Venture... Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
HaywireMac wrote: On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 10:42:37 -0700 Rolf Pedersen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> uttered: That none of these critics and dreamers has yet provided the world with a comparable, more profitable linux distribution suggests that, notwithstanding the possibilities of a million monkeys typing on a million keyboards for a million years, these lists are not the likely source of the proper tough decisions Mandrake must make in order to continue in the challenging, sometimes hostile, unpredictable corporate environment. well, us chattering monkeys should just keep our mouths shut, eh, ralphy boy? LOL! anyway, go take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut, ya snot-nosed bitch, if the sound of those typewriters in keeping you awake, go hide under a rock and us lowly end-users will try to keep it down a bit. QED Absent any logical refutation of my points, I suppose this eloquent exposition of your master of profanity will have to do. It seems those whose powers of reason fail to serve must resort to cruder expressions of agression. Alas, it would appear your 'powers' have abandoned you long before the Rice Krispies have lost their snap crackle and pop. Rolf Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 10:42:37 -0700 Rolf Pedersen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> uttered: > That none of these critics and dreamers has yet provided the world > with a comparable, > more profitable linux distribution suggests that, notwithstanding the > possibilities of a million monkeys typing on a million keyboards for a > million years, these lists are not the likely source of the proper > tough decisions Mandrake must make in order to continue in the > challenging, sometimes hostile, unpredictable corporate environment. well, us chattering monkeys should just keep our mouths shut, eh, ralphy boy? LOL! anyway, go take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut, ya snot-nosed bitch, if the sound of those typewriters in keeping you awake, go hide under a rock and us lowly end-users will try to keep it down a bit. -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org ++ Mandrake HowTo's & More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ Death is nature's way of telling you to slow down. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Sunday 21 Sep 2003 6:45 pm, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > Lee Wiggers schrieb am Sun, 21 Sep 2003 10:02:41 -0400: > > Or perhaps they are broke because they don't try to make money? > > Watching Mandrake shoot itself in the foot over and over again, > > marketing-wise has been the most unpleasant part of my mdk > > experience over the past 3 years. > > Funny how this "shooting in the foot" turned out to be a fast way > out of chapter 11. Other companies stayed in Ch11 for years, > Mandrake will (hopefully) be out within a year. Is that "shooting > in the foot"? > > Of course, there have been things and acts where we just ask: Why > on earth are they doing this? But for me the overall results are > what counts here, not the 'if' and 'should'. > > And one more point: All these actions (ore non-actions) during the > last 7 months must be regarded through the rules of the french > chapter 11. MandrakeSoft is under observation. This goes as far > that all investments, all credit attempts and contracts, all > payments, undergo examination by a court appointed accountant. Sure > this slows down actions and even prevents actions. If the > accountant says 'No', then you can't do what you'd do otherwise. > > MandrakeSoft as a company is far from being perfect and the > same goes for the management. But I am sure they'll make it and I'd > bet my money on them (in fact, all of the contributors and donators > do). > > wobo "Everyone knows" that managers miss the obvious, don't they? The truth is that top management is not an enviable job in tough times. There are always tough decisions to be made, and no-one else has the full picture so criticism is guaranteed. Until there are real signs that things are mismanaged, we should keep a still tongue on things we can know little about. Our job, as Vincent said, is to keep them on the road - and that needs cash as well as promotion. Time for rewards when the corner is turned. Big progress has been made, and more will come, but not if we go around bad-mouthing them. My not-so-humble opinion. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
I have bought my a copy of Mandrake (9.1) and will do the same for the upcoming 9.2...too bad more people would not do the same. Lee Wiggers schrieb am Sun, 21 Sep 2003 10:02:41 -0400: > Or perhaps they are broke because they don't try to make money? > Watching Mandrake shoot itself in the foot over and over again, > marketing-wise has been the most unpleasant part of my mdk > experience over the past 3 years. Funny how this "shooting in the foot" turned out to be a fast way out of chapter 11. Other companies stayed in Ch11 for years, Mandrake will (hopefully) be out within a year. Is that "shooting in the foot"? Of course, there have been things and acts where we just ask: Why on earth are they doing this? But for me the overall results are what counts here, not the 'if' and 'should'. And one more point: All these actions (ore non-actions) during the last 7 months must be regarded through the rules of the french chapter 11. MandrakeSoft is under observation. This goes as far that all investments, all credit attempts and contracts, all payments, undergo examination by a court appointed accountant. Sure this slows down actions and even prevents actions. If the accountant says 'No', then you can't do what you'd do otherwise. MandrakeSoft as a company is far from being perfect and the same goes for the management. But I am sure they'll make it and I'd bet my money on them (in fact, all of the contributors and donators do). wobo Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
Lee Wiggers schrieb am Sun, 21 Sep 2003 10:02:41 -0400: > Or perhaps they are broke because they don't try to make money? > Watching Mandrake shoot itself in the foot over and over again, > marketing-wise has been the most unpleasant part of my mdk > experience over the past 3 years. Funny how this "shooting in the foot" turned out to be a fast way out of chapter 11. Other companies stayed in Ch11 for years, Mandrake will (hopefully) be out within a year. Is that "shooting in the foot"? Of course, there have been things and acts where we just ask: Why on earth are they doing this? But for me the overall results are what counts here, not the 'if' and 'should'. And one more point: All these actions (ore non-actions) during the last 7 months must be regarded through the rules of the french chapter 11. MandrakeSoft is under observation. This goes as far that all investments, all credit attempts and contracts, all payments, undergo examination by a court appointed accountant. Sure this slows down actions and even prevents actions. If the accountant says 'No', then you can't do what you'd do otherwise. MandrakeSoft as a company is far from being perfect and the same goes for the management. But I am sure they'll make it and I'd bet my money on them (in fact, all of the contributors and donators do). wobo Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
Lee Wiggers wrote: On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 08:25:05 -0400 Greg Meyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Saturday 20 September 2003 11:31 pm, Carroll Grigsby wrote: 9.2 is supposed to go final RSN (Monday?), but neither the Mandrake home page nor the Mandrake Store have any mention about accepting orders for it. There's a thread on the Club Forum about this (and yes, I did add my two cents worth), but no response has been forthcoming from anyone at Mandrake. How's this for marketing skills: I've bought every PowerPack since 8.1 through the Store, and I've been a Club member (Silver) since January, 2002. What's wrong the Store sending an email asking if I want to reserve my copy now? Arg... Perhaps they have had enough of the criticism from people who pre-order and then get their boxes late or never. Maybe this is their way of fixing the Store. Another thought, IIRC, one of the main reasons to pre-order was cash flow. Let us charge your card now and we'll ship later. Perhaps this is a good sign that they do not need the cash flow from pre-orders. Or perhaps they are broke because they don't try to make money? Watching Mandrake shoot itself in the foot over and over again, marketing-wise has been the most unpleasant part of my mdk experience over the past 3 years. The corporate "they" sure have big feet. Lee Such comments as Mandrake 'don't try to make money' or 'shoot itself in the foot over and over again' are not, to my mind, particularly kind, productive, or even accurate. In the 08/01/2003 Mandrake Linux Community Newsletter - Issue #82, there is a link to the MandrakeSoft Shareholder Newsletter, which contains the following: http://www.mandrakesoft.com/company/investors/newsletter/sn030724 "For the first half year of the current fiscal year, MandrakeSoft's consolidated revenue decreased by 10% to 2.10 million euros over the same period of the previous year. This decrease is mainly due to the weakness of the US dollar, which is the main currency of MandrakeSoft's revenue. With last year's USD/euro exchange rate, consolidated revenue would have remained mostly stable (-2%). Consolidated gross margins for the first half year increased by 24%. This significant increase reflects an important change in revenue sources: # Increase in high margin revenue lines such as OEM, on-line sales and subscriptions to MandrakeLinux Users Club (from 40% to 63% of consolidated revenue), # Decrease in retail sales (from 51% to 27% of consolidated revenue). For the first half year of the current fiscal year, MandrakeSoft reported a consolidated operating loss of 1.27 million euros which is an improvement of 2.4 million euros compared to last year's same period. This improvement is mainly due to an increase in gross margin plus savings from the ongoing cost reduction plan." The lack of brick-and-mortar presence and hard-copy infrastructure is, probably, part of the cost-cutting realities with which Mandrake must cope in order to dig out of the hole, in order to survive. It is not difficult to toss out facile criticisms of Mandrake's business performance and postulate simplistic strategies that, if only Mandrake would follow them, all the problems would be solved. That none of these critics and dreamers has yet provided the world with a comparable, more profitable linux distribution suggests that, notwithstanding the possibilities of a million monkeys typing on a million keyboards for a million years, these lists are not the likely source of the proper tough decisions Mandrake must make in order to continue in the challenging, sometimes hostile, unpredictable corporate environment. To paraphrase Vincent Danen [1], the more pragmatic course for those who would consider themselves Mandrake supporters would be "... to put their money where their mouth is, get on board, do the right thing to ensure their OS of choice sticks around, and when the cash starts to surplus a little more, then I think you have an honest argument to say "listen, we did what we had to do to keep you guys around, now you do what you have to do to keep us around"." As one of the minority [2] who supports Mandrake the company, the developers, the physical infrastructure, these lists, et al with the cash purchase of a Club membership, I would like it known how much it displeases me that freeloaders will seize upon such easly-constructed negative characterizations as a rationalization for not spending any money for what they download. Yet, they never seem to go away :p Rolf [1] http://archives.mandrakelinux.com/expert/2003-09/msg01607.php [2] http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg122507.html Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 08:25:05 -0400 Greg Meyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Saturday 20 September 2003 11:31 pm, Carroll Grigsby wrote: > > 9.2 is supposed to go final RSN (Monday?), but neither the > > Mandrake home > page > > nor the Mandrake Store have any mention about accepting orders > > for it. There's a thread on the Club Forum about this (and yes, > > I did add my two cents worth), but no response has been > > forthcoming from anyone at Mandrake. > > > > How's this for marketing skills: I've bought every PowerPack > > since 8.1 > through > > the Store, and I've been a Club member (Silver) since January, > > 2002. What's wrong the Store sending an email asking if I want > > to reserve my copy now? > > > > Arg... > > > Perhaps they have had enough of the criticism from people who > pre-order and then get their boxes late or never. Maybe this is > their way of fixing the Store. > > Another thought, IIRC, one of the main reasons to pre-order was > cash flow. Let us charge your card now and we'll ship later. > Perhaps this is a good sign that they do not need the cash flow > from pre-orders. > > Or perhaps they are broke because they don't try to make money? Watching Mandrake shoot itself in the foot over and over again, marketing-wise has been the most unpleasant part of my mdk experience over the past 3 years. The corporate "they" sure have big feet. Lee Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.2 pre-orders
On Saturday 20 September 2003 11:31 pm, Carroll Grigsby wrote: > 9.2 is supposed to go final RSN (Monday?), but neither the Mandrake home page > nor the Mandrake Store have any mention about accepting orders for it. > There's a thread on the Club Forum about this (and yes, I did add my two > cents worth), but no response has been forthcoming from anyone at Mandrake. > > How's this for marketing skills: I've bought every PowerPack since 8.1 through > the Store, and I've been a Club member (Silver) since January, 2002. What's > wrong the Store sending an email asking if I want to reserve my copy now? > > Arg... > Perhaps they have had enough of the criticism from people who pre-order and then get their boxes late or never. Maybe this is their way of fixing the Store. Another thought, IIRC, one of the main reasons to pre-order was cash flow. Let us charge your card now and we'll ship later. Perhaps this is a good sign that they do not need the cash flow from pre-orders. -- /g "Outside of a dog, a man's best friend is a book, inside a dog it's too dark to read" -Groucho Marx Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[expert] 9.2 pre-orders
9.2 is supposed to go final RSN (Monday?), but neither the Mandrake home page nor the Mandrake Store have any mention about accepting orders for it. There's a thread on the Club Forum about this (and yes, I did add my two cents worth), but no response has been forthcoming from anyone at Mandrake. How's this for marketing skills: I've bought every PowerPack since 8.1 through the Store, and I've been a Club member (Silver) since January, 2002. What's wrong the Store sending an email asking if I want to reserve my copy now? Arg... -- cmg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
