[FairfieldLife] Re: interesting website - santapixel.com
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Adrian Price [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I heard about a new website called santapixel.com. A very interesting and entertaining website. You sign up for free. Click on ads, surf in web sites and earn points. Then you win gifts by points. While signing up, enter [EMAIL PROTECTED] (my username) as your reference. So both of us earn 50 points. See you Hi Adrian, As intriguing as the idea of earning points by watching ads on websites is, I decided not to go to the site you mentioned and sign up. Instead, I went to several well-known child porn- ography sites and entered your username as a sub- scriber. I'm sure this will help you to earn points as well, although of a slightly different kind, and possibly from law enforcement authorities. See you.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website The Pain Body
When I was serious about guitar, I would spend hours trying to compensate for various physical shortcomings like slightly warped fingers, odd-growing fingernails and so on. Sometimes standard intellectual analysis of shape and trajectory would be helpful, and sometimes it was better just to fart around until something happened that felt right. That's it, farting around, that's the phrase I should have used! Much clearer, thanks. Happy to be of help... You've invented the path of flatulence... :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website The Pain Body
Robert Gimbel writes: --From my experience also: sometimes we like to hold onto our pain Judy sincerely responds : Or, we'd be happy to let it go if we could only figure out *how*. Tom T: I know this will sound redundant as others here have made this suggestion. If you desire you can buy, borrow or rent Byron Katie's book Loving What IS. If you choose to read the entire book (more than once is better)you will have installed human virus software and the how to will happen automatically. On the other hand you can choose not to and still not know how to release all pain. Byron had a dramatic awakening and spent three years putting her life back together and her work and her software came out of that awakening experience. Her Darshan is more powerful than any other saints I have had the privilege to meet. Enjoy Tom To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website The Pain Body
-- That's exactly it: you can't figure out how to release the pain. I had a good councilor and this is the technique she used: 1. Intention is important! First intend to release the pain. 2. Relax and ground yourself into the earth, feels your connection to the earth. 3. Open your crown chakra (imagine you can 'look' up through the top of your head and 'see' a bright light coming into the top of your head (this is the energy of your soul). 4. Ask, or be open to your soul energy providing the healing, and also, ask for help from the Ascended Masters for healing. 5. Allow your awareness to be drawn to an area of your body, which feels some sensation, or discomfort, or tightness. 6. Just allow your awareness to be with the sensation in the body, without thinking about it, trying to analyze it, or anything mental. Continue to feel the soul energy coming in as if to shine a light on the sensation in the body. 7. Allow the impressions to come forth, pictures which might be experienced, but still don't try to figure it out, just let your awareness stay with the sensation, no matter how uncomfortable it feels. 8.Make the affirmation: I am ready to release this pattern, which may have been necessary in the past, but which I have no need for now, and am ready to release this pain body. 9.Stay with the sensation in the body, until you feel a noticeable 'shift'. 10. If the pain is not completely released, you have started the process, which will continue, on a subconscious level, as long as the intention remains for its release. My counselor would sit with eyes closed during the session, and help focus on the area of concern, subtlety guiding the process, which intensifies the experience, but nonetheless, it is effective in and of itself. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --From my experience also: sometimes we like to hold onto our pain Or, we'd be happy to let it go if we could only figure out *how*. In all seriousness, a great start would probably be to STOP TRYING TO FIGURE EVERYTHING OUT! The more you try to figure things out, the more you're locked into the intellect, the more you reinforce the self, and the more you reinforce the pain. And if you could tell when words are meant literally and when they aren't, you'd be a lot more likely once in a while to come up with a helpful comment. When you figure out how to hit a line drive, does it involve the intellect? Yes. The intellect is the means of discrimination- place the club a little bit more this way or that. OK, but discrimination per se is a means of awakening, as I understand it, unlike what Barry's talking about, where you get stuck in the thinking process. It's primarily the body, or the mind-body connection, that figures out how to hit a line drive. It isn't something you think *about* or can get stuck in. That's the analogy I was trying to draw. Letting go is what one does in TM, except it's more a matter of not-doing. If you bring the intellect into it, it just gets in the way, as it would in trying to hit a line drive. But you have to learn the trick to it. In any case, I was suggesting that We want to hold onto our pain isn't really the case. Rather, we don't know how to let go of it. Barry's response was entirely beside the point. However for the action to fully succeed it must involve the heart and mind working in alignment with each other, just like it talks about in the Gita. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Fischer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Fischer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, Jeff, but I really *don't* know what you're trying to tell me. D) All of the above A) My observation B) His own assertion C) Group consensus of what pretty much any Scientologist has to say PS If you don't like my answer to A, fear not, there is C :-) Any time you want to actually explain what it is you're getting at, I'm all ears. Er, eyes. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, kaladevi93 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good story Rory. Please, tell us another one. You have a lot of them! I love stories about hey look at me in my mirror, see how enlightened I am; theyre so rare around here. :-D Seriously, that's one of my favorite things about FFL -- that they aren't so rare around here, that so many people here are daring to let go and BE :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website The Pain Body
--From my experience also: sometimes we like to hold onto our pain; it has become part of us, and it seems that we wouldn't be our same old self(the ego construct),without our pain. Seems strange that we would want to hold onto that which keeps us bound, but in a way it takes courage to go where you you haven't been before; it feels that the part that might need release, has been so much a part of us, that the feeling is: who will I be without my pain... Eckhart also talks in terms of collective pain, the collective pain body, which in a way, is motivating people to find a new way; - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Exactly. Which is one reason the stick to one teacher idea may be fatally flawed. One teacher may work for a student for a while, but then the student's body/mind construct develops defenses against that teacher, and relegates him/her to the status quo. At that point, going to see another teacher who has a completely different out of the status quo box style may have a beneficial effect on the student. It doesn't make the second teacher any better, just different. And sometimes difference can make all the difference. :-) Nicely put. This is how Carla Gordan, Robin Carlson, the McGees, and others worked for me -- set up nice cross-currents to destroy the samskaric grooves that had become complacent and accustomed to MMY :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website The Pain Body
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --From my experience also: sometimes we like to hold onto our pain Or, we'd be happy to let it go if we could only figure out *how*. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website The Pain Body
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --From my experience also: sometimes we like to hold onto our pain Or, we'd be happy to let it go if we could only figure out *how*. In all seriousness, a great start would probably be to STOP TRYING TO FIGURE EVERYTHING OUT! The more you try to figure things out, the more you're locked into the intellect, the more you reinforce the self, and the more you reinforce the pain. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website The Pain Body
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --From my experience also: sometimes we like to hold onto our pain Or, we'd be happy to let it go if we could only figure out *how*. In all seriousness, a great start would probably be to STOP TRYING TO FIGURE EVERYTHING OUT! The more you try to figure things out, the more you're locked into the intellect, the more you reinforce the self, and the more you reinforce the pain. And if you could tell when words are meant literally and when they aren't, you'd be a lot more likely once in a while to come up with a helpful comment. When you figure out how to hit a line drive, does it involve the intellect? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
Torquise B writes Think of it in terms of a drug-addiction analogy. The teacher is trying to get the student to realize that he is addicted to a dangerous drug (ignorance, the ego, self, his stories). Tom T writes: In actually any and all beliefs are addictions. Why do we know that to be true? If it wasn't true we would give up our beliefs in a moment. Do we give them up easily? Doesn't appear we do based on the traffic on this subject above. Again, a suggestion, to look at our beliefs as suggested by Byron Katie and see how much real truth they hold and if we may be ready to let some of them go. Tom To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
Jim Flanegin writes: The difference in energy is due to identifying with the small self=little energy vs identifying with the Universe=inexhaustable energy. Tom T writes: In the book by Hawlkins Power vs FOrce. It is apparent that small self involves force and that identifying with the Universe is real POWER. TOm To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
Judy wrote: Even if you didn't find it resonated on *any* level? Judy had written 30 messages ago: Perhaps the appropriate question is, How is what the teacher is saying affecting me? Do I find it liberating--does it inspire me to expand into it, to drop my boundaries--or do I experience it as constricting, a painful pinch that only makes me want to withdraw into myself? Tom T writes: The pinch is our true nature recognizing our holding onto a belief that no longer serves us. The pinch is the moment of truth that says wait a minute How do I know that judgment I have just made is true? This is what the Byron Katie work is about. Recognize that every contraction we experience is an opportunity presented so we may dive into our pain body and discover that what has been believed to be true is not. Freedom comes when we dissolve beliefs and see the world without them. Tom To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website The Pain Body
The Mamas and the Papas said it best: Glad To Be Unhappy Fools rush in, so here I am Awfully glad to be unhappy I can't win but here I am More than glad to be unhappy Unrequited love's a bore, yeah And I've got it pretty bad But for someone you adore It's a pleasure to be sad Like a straying baby lamb With no mama and no papa I'm so unhappy, yeah Unrequited love's a bore, yeah And I've got it pretty bad But for someone you adore It's a pleasure to be sad Like a straying baby lamb With no mama and no papa I'm so unhappy, yeah But oh so glad --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --From my experience also: sometimes we like to hold onto our pain; it has become part of us, and it seems that we wouldn't be our same old self(the ego construct),without our pain. Seems strange that we would want to hold onto that which keeps us bound, but in a way it takes courage to go where you you haven't been before; it feels that the part that might need release, has been so much a part of us, that the feeling is: who will I be without my pain... Eckhart also talks in terms of collective pain, the collective pain body, which in a way, is motivating people to find a new way; - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Exactly. Which is one reason the stick to one teacher idea may be fatally flawed. One teacher may work for a student for a while, but then the student's body/mind construct develops defenses against that teacher, and relegates him/her to the status quo. At that point, going to see another teacher who has a completely different out of the status quo box style may have a beneficial effect on the student. It doesn't make the second teacher any better, just different. And sometimes difference can make all the difference. :-) Nicely put. This is how Carla Gordan, Robin Carlson, the McGees, and others worked for me -- set up nice cross-currents to destroy the samskaric grooves that had become complacent and accustomed to MMY :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website The Pain Body
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --From my experience also: sometimes we like to hold onto our pain Or, we'd be happy to let it go if we could only figure out *how*. Judy if you put your attention on it, and feel how deeply it goes into your body and just stay with that, that will work. It was odd, when I wanted to release some emotional pain I felt in my body, I would find myself drawn to stories of negative things like war and other sadness, and use this as a catalyst. It may sound strange or dramatic, but I really didn't want to carry that stuff around inside me once I became aware of it. Another thing that was helpful to me was the realization that the pain, though attached to events experienced in some way, had no reality other than as an emotional mass within me. In other words I granted it no status other than it just being pain, and so it was easy to expel when it was time to get rid of it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website The Pain Body
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --From my experience also: sometimes we like to hold onto our pain Or, we'd be happy to let it go if we could only figure out *how*. In all seriousness, a great start would probably be to STOP TRYING TO FIGURE EVERYTHING OUT! The more you try to figure things out, the more you're locked into the intellect, the more you reinforce the self, and the more you reinforce the pain. And if you could tell when words are meant literally and when they aren't, you'd be a lot more likely once in a while to come up with a helpful comment. When you figure out how to hit a line drive, does it involve the intellect? Yes. The intellect is the means of discrimination- place the club a little bit more this way or that. However for the action to fully succeed it must involve the heart and mind working in alignment with each other, just like it talks about in the Gita. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website The Pain Body
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --From my experience also: sometimes we like to hold onto our pain Or, we'd be happy to let it go if we could only figure out *how*. In all seriousness, a great start would probably be to STOP TRYING TO FIGURE EVERYTHING OUT! The more you try to figure things out, the more you're locked into the intellect, the more you reinforce the self, and the more you reinforce the pain. And if you could tell when words are meant literally and when they aren't, you'd be a lot more likely once in a while to come up with a helpful comment. When you figure out how to hit a line drive, does it involve the intellect? Yes. The intellect is the means of discrimination- place the club a little bit more this way or that. OK, but discrimination per se is a means of awakening, as I understand it, unlike what Barry's talking about, where you get stuck in the thinking process. It's primarily the body, or the mind-body connection, that figures out how to hit a line drive. It isn't something you think *about* or can get stuck in. That's the analogy I was trying to draw. Letting go is what one does in TM, except it's more a matter of not-doing. If you bring the intellect into it, it just gets in the way, as it would in trying to hit a line drive. But you have to learn the trick to it. In any case, I was suggesting that We want to hold onto our pain isn't really the case. Rather, we don't know how to let go of it. Barry's response was entirely beside the point. However for the action to fully succeed it must involve the heart and mind working in alignment with each other, just like it talks about in the Gita. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website The Pain Body
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --From my experience also: sometimes we like to hold onto our pain Or, we'd be happy to let it go if we could only figure out *how*. Judy if you put your attention on it, and feel how deeply it goes into your body and just stay with that, that will work. OK. As I said in the other post, I was really just suggesting another way to phrase what Robert said. I'm pretty fortunate that I don't have much pain in my life to deal with. It was odd, when I wanted to release some emotional pain I felt in my body, I would find myself drawn to stories of negative things like war and other sadness, and use this as a catalyst. It may sound strange or dramatic, but I really didn't want to carry that stuff around inside me once I became aware of it. Doesn't sound strange, sounds like a very valid approach. Another thing that was helpful to me was the realization that the pain, though attached to events experienced in some way, had no reality other than as an emotional mass within me. In other words I granted it no status other than it just being pain, and so it was easy to expel when it was time to get rid of it. I astonished myself once a few years ago, seeing Country Joe on TV singing Fixin' to Die, his anti-Vietnam War song, by suddenly starting to weep. It brought back the pain of that whole era, which I had stored somewhere without realizing it. Don't know why that song triggered it, rather than umpty other reminders I'd encountered. But they were healing tears. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website The Pain Body
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --From my experience also: sometimes we like to hold onto our pain Or, we'd be happy to let it go if we could only figure out *how*. Judy if you put your attention on it, and feel how deeply it goes into your body and just stay with that, that will work. OK. As I said in the other post, I was really just suggesting another way to phrase what Robert said. I'm pretty fortunate that I don't have much pain in my life to deal with. Oh OK- Its hard to get context sometimes here without a longer conversation...Glad to hear it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website The Pain Body
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --From my experience also: sometimes we like to hold onto our pain Or, we'd be happy to let it go if we could only figure out *how*. In all seriousness, a great start would probably be to STOP TRYING TO FIGURE EVERYTHING OUT! The more you try to figure things out, the more you're locked into the intellect, the more you reinforce the self, and the more you reinforce the pain. And if you could tell when words are meant literally and when they aren't, you'd be a lot more likely once in a while to come up with a helpful comment. When you figure out how to hit a line drive, does it involve the intellect? Depends on what you mean by intellect. When I was serious about guitar, I would spend hours trying to compensate for various physical shortcomings like slightly warped fingers, odd-growing fingernails and so on. Sometimes standard intellectual analysis of shape and trajectory would be helpful, and sometimes it was better just to fart around until something happened that felt right. Regardless, there was STILL intellect involved in the form of descriminating between better and worse solutions for the problem at hand. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website The Pain Body
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip When you figure out how to hit a line drive, does it involve the intellect? Depends on what you mean by intellect. When I was serious about guitar, I would spend hours trying to compensate for various physical shortcomings like slightly warped fingers, odd-growing fingernails and so on. Sometimes standard intellectual analysis of shape and trajectory would be helpful, and sometimes it was better just to fart around until something happened that felt right. That's it, farting around, that's the phrase I should have used! Much clearer, thanks. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website The Pain Body
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip When you figure out how to hit a line drive, does it involve the intellect? Depends on what you mean by intellect. When I was serious about guitar, I would spend hours trying to compensate for various physical shortcomings like slightly warped fingers, odd-growing fingernails and so on. Sometimes standard intellectual analysis of shape and trajectory would be helpful, and sometimes it was better just to fart around until something happened that felt right. That's it, farting around, that's the phrase I should have used! Much clearer, thanks. Happy to be of help... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] If that's what you want out of a spiritual teacher, I'm sure there are many out there who will provide it. Me, I'd be happier with someone who told me the truth. What is truth? And from what state of consciousness? Hilarious. It is true that knowledge is different in different states of consciousness. However, in my opinion, we only benefit in our quest for spiritual growth if exposed honestly and forthrightly to an enlightened point of view, no matter the discomfort it causes us. Bingo! It is like being disciplined as a child. Excactly. Some children don't like to be told that they're still children, If we are always presented with just the child's point of view, we never grow up. So the realities of the enlightened and the ignorant are quite different, and at the same time it greatly behooves the ignorant to be exposed to the naked reality of the enlightened, if they truly want to gain that release of suffering for themselves. Of course, the ignorant are always free to continue suffering eternally if that is their choice; forever approaching freedom and then backing away, because the perceived pain of confronting their boundaries is greater than the perceived reward of freedom from suffering. Totally their choice. Personally, I call that fence sitting and it has never any much benefit for me. I agree. But some make a career -- or a lifetime -- out of it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] If that's what you want out of a spiritual teacher, I'm sure there are many out there who will provide it. Me, I'd be happier with someone who told me the truth. What is truth? That which sets us free? Excellent. Still relative, just relatively liberating as oppposed to binding. :-) And from what state of consciousness? From the bound state into the unbound state? Bingo. Hilarious. On many levels, yes :-) I think so, too. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] If that's what you want out of a spiritual teacher, I'm sure there are many out there who will provide it. Me, I'd be happier with someone who told me the truth. What is truth? I am curious because I cannot figure out what role you have taken? Are you Sokrates? Ingegerd To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] If that's what you want out of a spiritual teacher, I'm sure there are many out there who will provide it. Me, I'd be happier with someone who told me the truth. What is truth? I am curious because I cannot figure out what role you have taken? Are you Sokrates? Ingegerd Spiritual gadfly? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
This entire thread has pointed up for me the damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't nature of spiritual teaching. A teacher who won't accept the overshadowing of a person in ignorance will be accused of insensitivity. The teacher who shows too much compassion -- or perhaps compassion of the wrong type -- is accused of enabling the student's ignorance. A related thought: a friend studying with Course in Miracles teacher Robert Perry sent me a lesson recently in which Perry discussed the ways that empathy, normally an admirable trait, can be used to reinforce the ego and attack a person. So there's healthy empathy, which contributes to the Course's holy instant, and there's dysfunctional empathy, which reinforces suffering. So it's another caveat for the student of spiritual growth: is this teacher's seeming insensitivity really just tough love? Or is that teacher's compassion reinforcing the story I use to hide from my true nature as a liberated being? My post sheds no light; I write this merely to give voice to what the thread has elicited in me, and to acknowledge the contributions of other thread participants. Thanks, all. - Patrick Gillam --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just for kicks, since you snipped it, here it is again; The second thing that caught my attention was seeing Hillary Davis work with one of the participants. Hillary, like me, has a background in Advaita Vedanta with Papaji. One of the central understandings of many in that school is that attachment to a person's personal story (how they see themselves, how they think of themselves and their past) is an obstacle to clear seeing and should not be taken too seriously. What I saw as Hillary listened to one person's story of suffering was subtle and difficult to convey: I could clearly see and feel that Hillary was seeing this person as consciousness itself, free of all limiting definitions of mind AND AT THE SAME TIME Hillary was taking the person's story 100% seriously and seemed to be believing everything this person conveyed about their life experience. It was obvious that the person was being deeply seen as a person complete with limitations but not held to them, because they were also seen as being free of them. snip To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
This sounds like an experience I have; Sometimes more clearly, when I am well rested, eating well, and have a clear witness in my consciousness. We all have Darshan; we all radiate the vibration, which we are; sometimes peaceful, we radiate peacefulness; when angry, we radiate anger. When one is able to deepen the value of pure-consciousness, Presence, Witnessing in one's own consciousness, then one can hold the value of that infinite, unlimited self, and then one can witness clearly, from that unlimited self: All of the limits; whether those limits are within, or without oneself. When one is established in pure-consciousness, within, then there is a base line point, of stillness, silence. From this baseline point of infinity, from this stillness, all relative vibrations arrise from it. You can 'connect' with the other person, on the level of the infinite self of one recognizing the infinite self, of the other. And because there is this touchstone of awareness, deep within, of stillness, we begin to recognize, those qualities that are not silent, not still, and can feel, perceive, cognize, the flavors of the vibrations, and their origins. It all happens spontaneously and naturally. With Gangaji, and the one mentioned here, it they wish to be a channel for healing, all that is necessary for them is to sit with the person, and just 'Be' with them. You see, the whole process of meditation, and enlightenment, is to simply learn how to 'BE'. There are not words that need to be said in that state, no truth to be revealed, nothing to be done, nothing to be added; rather, it is the opposite of doing; just 'Being. Now, when one has learned to 'BE' within themselves, then one's Darshan radiates 'Being' and just being with that person, he or she imbibes that Being within you. Now, because in the state of enlightenment, you have the sense, that nothing needs to be done, so you have the time to BE, and in that state of being, you have compassion,that flows, for all of those beings, that forgot how to just BE. So, just sitting with whoever, you feel compassion for them and their story, (but more than the story, you feel the limitations the pain of their stories, on their bodies, minds, and emotions, you can even sense the origins of these if need be; But what happens, is that quite naturally, there is a feeling of compassion, which flows to the wound, or the limiting vibration, which loosens it and eventually dispels, and releases it. Now, anyone can do this for themselves, when in meditation, you come to that simplest state of awareness, and just witness, any sensation in the body, your emotions ,in your heart, or in your gut, or wherever; just sit with the feeling, the limitation, just witness it, until you feel a shift. This can be a very powerful way to release. Of course, if there were someone who is established in Presence, Witnessing Consciousness, this would serve to intensify the experience. It would be great to be around an Enlightened Master, as Maharishi was, but unfortunately that is not always possible. Nonetheless, we all have each other now, who are progressing on the path, and we all help each other this way. Use your own state of enlightenment, you own silent inner witness, to just witness, What Is : and it will shift. By observing something, causes it to change; By observing something from the level of pure consiousness, see what happens... - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://krishnasatsang.com/essay_waking.htm I hear this guy is coming to Fairfield next week. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting Website
-Humans are just channels of energy; the more energy you give out in this free flow of compassionate energy, the more you are empowered. Amma seems to be in a unique position of being there for so many, who are willing to recieve. There must also be a willingness to recieve. I have never had the fortune of being in her presence, but look forward to experiencing this healing being./ -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rick wrote: And if a light bulb, what is my power source? Amma refers to herself as an inexhaustible battery. Which is why she seems as full of shakti at 11am after giving darshan to 8,000 people all night as she does at 8pm the night before. She must have a direct connection to God. Such a vast reservoir of energy must stem from good karma from past lives, IMO. :-) Not everyone can live in the type of pure satvic environment where we can replenish our own psychic energy. Amma is obviously very generously giving help to all those who want it, and are willing to accept help from her. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Question below. authfriend wrote: I don't think you'd care for him much. Here's his description of one of the teachers who works with Saniel Bonder, from the Web site: What follows sounds like a great way to interact with people. Why do you say I don't think you'd care for him much, Judy? Are you being sarcastic? Densely, Patrick Gillam I was going to comment at the time you posted this, Patrick, that what I thought was going on was that Judy had had her buttons pushed by something I said, and was trying to start a thread that would give her a chance to retaliate by dumping on me. As it turns out, that's exactly how it turned out. :-) Little did I know that the thing that set her off was me merely pointing out the obvious (from one spiritual point of view), that Maharishi's theory of enlightenment being blocked* by stress is just an intellectual excuse that those who believe themselves unenlightened can cling to to preserve their illusion of unenlightenment. To balance my original statement, I concede that *providing* such excuses could be seen as a positive thing. It enables those who *want* to cling to ignorance to do so without feeling bad about it. It's not them that's causing their ignorance, or the stories they tell themselves about the self that's causing it -- its stress. Bad stress. Evil stress. If it weren't for stress, I'd be enlightened. The above is a non-sectarian mantra...if you're not convinced that stress is the boogeyman that keeps you in ignorance, replace the word stress with whatever term you have for the boogeyman that keeps you in ignorance and that term will work for you just as well as stress does. :-) Unc P.S. In case you've never encountered it, one approach that is sometimes taken by some spiritual teachers when dealing with students who have established a history of clinging to their stories is to poke fun at the student for doing so. Since this number has been run on me many times, I can attest that sometimes it works, and the student actually makes a break- through and laughs at him self or her self and the stories no longer have any power over them. Sometimes all it does is reinforce the stories and make the student angry. Basically, for both student and teacher, it's a crapshoot...you never know how it's going to turn out. But IMO trying it is better than just sitting there and allowing someone to make themselves crazy listening over and over to the same old tired stories they tell them selves. If nothing else, it alleviates the boredom... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This entire thread has pointed up for me the damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't nature of spiritual teaching. Exactly. And the whole problem is that some in this thread are suggesting that there is a right way to be a spiritual teacher. IMO that's a lot like every other theory that proposes a one size fits all approach...it's unrealiistic and ineffective. Teachers are different. They have different approaches, based on their individual paths, their individual predilections, and their individual personalities. Students are different. They, too have individual predilections and personalities. Some students feel more comfortable with a teacher who teaches a certain way; others feel more comfortable with a teacher who teaches a completely opposite way. Where is the problem in this? A teacher who won't accept the overshadowing of a person in ignorance will be accused of insensitivity. The teacher who shows too much compassion -- or perhaps compassion of the wrong type -- is accused of enabling the student's ignorance. A related thought: a friend studying with Course in Miracles teacher Robert Perry sent me a lesson recently in which Perry discussed the ways that empathy, normally an admirable trait, can be used to reinforce the ego and attack a person. So there's healthy empathy, which contributes to the Course's holy instant, and there's dysfunctional empathy, which reinforces suffering. Exactly. Another way of looking at the issue is Who is the teacher speaking *to* when he speaks to the student? That is, drop for a moment the notion that we only have *one* self. Assume for that moment that we have thousands of them, most of them apparent to the enlightened teacher. That teacher has a choice as to *which* self to speak to. So. Does the teacher choose to speak to the self that clings to the intellect, and uses that intellect to prolong suffering and ignorance, or does the teacher choose to talk to the self that *already* realizes its own enlightenment, and merely needs to be reminded of that realization? On the whole, Maharishi speaks to the intellect. I can rem- ember very few talks in 14 years in which he directed his comments to the already enlightened self within. Almost *everything* he said was directed at the intellect of his students. But I've also been fortunate enough to work with a few folks who *don't* speak to the intellect, and who try to have a conversation with the student as if they are already enlightened. I prefer the latter approach. Other people''s mileage may -- and obviously does -- vary. So it's another caveat for the student of spiritual growth: is this teacher's seeming insensitivity really just tough love? Or is that teacher's compassion reinforcing the story I use to hide from my true nature as a liberated being? A good question to add to the ones one ponders periodically. My post sheds no light; I write this merely to give voice to what the thread has elicited in me, and to acknowledge the contributions of other thread participants. Thanks, all. Ditto. This isn't a subject that can *be* resolved. It has to do with predilection, and with comfort levels, and with what one identifies with most in life. For some people, the empathy approach feels better; for others, the tough love approach feels better. But neither is better. Unc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website The Pain Body
--There is a concept, which Eckhart Tolle, talks about: the Pain Body. He claims, it is the pain body, which interferes with the experience of Being, Presence, Enlightenment. One technique he uses to alleviate the pain body is to just sit with it; witness it. He says, that the pain body, sometimes lies dormant, and when a button is pushed, that pain which is unhealed, comes to the surface. The strange thing is: the pain body, tries to replenish itself, when coming to the surface, by creating more pain, more karma. So, the only way out of creating more pain, more karma is to witness the pain body when it comes forth. Instead of feeling bad, when you're feeling bad, recognize, that you are not your thought,you are not your feelings, but just witness what is going on inside of you; the more intense the thoughts, and feelings, the more potential for healing is there. Bill Harris(centerpointe.com) who developed the Holosync CD's also, takes this approach; He advises, that when listening to the holosync CD, which produces a deep coherent low frequency brain wave pattern, (which increases the experience of witnessing) that in this witnessing state, to just watch the thoughts, and feelings, and that dissolves them. He actually says, that the pain comes from 'holding on' to the old patterns, instead of just letting them go. So, different enlightened people have different ways of helping; each has something to give. We are all here to help each other become enlightened as quickly as possible, realizing the state of the world, and our place in it. Don't minimize your own enlightenment, and just witness whatever blocks you perceive to be blocks. And,That's what it's all about.!! - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Question below. authfriend wrote: I don't think you'd care for him much. Here's his description of one of the teachers who works with Saniel Bonder, from the Web site: What follows sounds like a great way to interact with people. Why do you say I don't think you'd care for him much, Judy? Are you being sarcastic? Densely, Patrick Gillam I was going to comment at the time you posted this, Patrick, that what I thought was going on was that Judy had had her buttons pushed by something I said, and was trying to start a thread that would give her a chance to retaliate by dumping on me. As it turns out, that's exactly how it turned out. :-) Little did I know that the thing that set her off was me merely pointing out the obvious (from one spiritual point of view), that Maharishi's theory of enlightenment being blocked* by stress is just an intellectual excuse that those who believe themselves unenlightened can cling to to preserve their illusion of unenlightenment. To balance my original statement, I concede that *providing* such excuses could be seen as a positive thing. It enables those who *want* to cling to ignorance to do so without feeling bad about it. It's not them that's causing their ignorance, or the stories they tell themselves about the self that's causing it - - its stress. Bad stress. Evil stress. If it weren't for stress, I'd be enlightened. The above is a non-sectarian mantra...if you're not convinced that stress is the boogeyman that keeps you in ignorance, replace the word stress with whatever term you have for the boogeyman that keeps you in ignorance and that term will work for you just as well as stress does. :-) Unc P.S. In case you've never encountered it, one approach that is sometimes taken by some spiritual teachers when dealing with students who have established a history of clinging to their stories is to poke fun at the student for doing so. Since this number has been run on me many times, I can attest that sometimes it works, and the student actually makes a break- through and laughs at him self or her self and the stories no longer have any power over them. Sometimes all it does is reinforce the stories and make the student angry. Basically, for both student and teacher, it's a crapshoot...you never know how it's going to turn out. But IMO trying it is better than just sitting there and allowing someone to make themselves crazy listening over and over to the same old tired stories they tell them selves. If nothing else, it alleviates the boredom... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
Comments interleaved below. TurquoiseB wrote: stress is just an intellectual excuse that those who believe themselves unenlightened can cling to to preserve their illusion of unenlightenment. To balance my original statement, I concede that *providing* such excuses could be seen as a positive thing. It enables those who *want* to cling to ignorance to do so without feeling bad about it. Acknowledged, but I must say that Maharishi's emphasis on stress and physiological purification led me to huge, huge transformations in my body and my realization of the silent nature of consciousness. As Robert Gimbel said in a previous post, being well-rested, properly fed and exercised are relative things that can generate breakthroughs in awareness. (Ironically, I healed myself most with a non-Maharishi program. Hence, while I tend to champion Maharishi in this forum, I also agree with those who attack his my way or the highway policies.) Anyway, I don't fault Maharishi for a moment for his emphasis on stress. In our Philosophy of Science core course at MIU in 1977, David Clay deconstructed the stress theory and clarified its shortcomings. It was a clarifying if understated moments in my Maharishi education. P.S. In case you've never encountered it, one approach that is sometimes taken by some spiritual teachers when dealing with students who have established a history of clinging to their stories is to poke fun at the student for doing so. ... Sometimes all it does is reinforce the stories and make the student angry. I've had that done to me. Now I see what the teacher was getting at, but it didn't work for me at the time. The course was a waste of my money. I would have been better off to put the funds into a weekend of panchakarma, pursuing MMY's purification path instead of the tough love approach of the that seminar. - Patrick Gillam To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Er, I think you accidentally incorporated your own response into the syntax of the response sequence. It was more like, What is the truth you want to be told? And truth as seen from what state of consciousness? I don't think it was an accident :-) I knew you'd say that... Always happy to oblige a heart-friend :-) Rory... Never mind. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website The Pain Body
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --There is a concept, which Eckhart Tolle, talks about: the Pain Body. He claims, it is the pain body, which interferes with the experience of Being, Presence, Enlightenment. One technique he uses to alleviate the pain body is to just sit with it; witness it. He says, that the pain body, sometimes lies dormant, and when a button is pushed, that pain which is unhealed, comes to the surface. The strange thing is: the pain body, tries to replenish itself, when coming to the surface, by creating more pain, more karma. So, the only way out of creating more pain, more karma is to witness the pain body when it comes forth. Instead of feeling bad, when you're feeling bad, recognize, that you are not your thought,you are not your feelings, but just witness what is going on inside of you; the more intense the thoughts, and feelings, the more potential for healing is there. Interesting stuff. I'll have to look into it more. Thanks. As for the pain body *replenishing* itself, I think that's right on. This next bit may seem like a non-sequitur, but I don't think it is. In studies of addiciton (tobacco, drugs, etc.) one theory of How It Works is that the person is really *allergic to* the substance that he is addicted to. Why this is relevant is the mechanism of allergic reactions. Strangely, when one is severely allergic to a substance and then stops coming in contact with it, the first thing that the body does is *crave* the very substance that one is allergic to. Maybe there is some of this phenomenon present in the mechanics of ignorance wanting to preserve itself. The body/mind construct thinks it has things down pat. It has found coping mechanisms that allow it to get through the day. And then something happens to challenge the status quo -- a particularly shiny meditation, something that a teacher says, a powerful session of darshan or satsang, just a passing comment on the Internet, whatever. Bottom line is that the status quo has been challenged, the coping mechanism thrown off balance. What if, on some level, one of the automatic reations of a body/mind lost in ignorance is to, at that point, *crave* all the things that created the previous state of status quo ignorance? I think that Tolle's feel the body idea is a good one. It's certainly preferable to diving back into the muck once it's been stirred up. It's also more in line with the metaphor of enlightenment. The *same* thing is going to continue to happen after enlightenment -- events are going to happen that are going to push our buttons, no matter how enlightened we may be. But in enlightenment, the witness has been established as a habit, and one may more easily fall back on that witness and just witness the passing emotions of a button-pushing in an attempt to get back to the status quo of enlightenment, rather than fall back on old habits in an attempt to get back to the status quo of ignorance. Beats me, but it's interesting stuff to ponder. Bill Harris(centerpointe.com) who developed the Holosync CD's also, takes this approach; He advises, that when listening to the holosync CD, which produces a deep coherent low frequency brain wave pattern, (which increases the experience of witnessing) that in this witnessing state, to just watch the thoughts, and feelings, and that dissolves them. He actually says, that the pain comes from 'holding on' to the old patterns, instead of just letting them go. Exactly. Some part of the body/mind construct is actually *craving* the old pain, and thus craving that which will bring it back. So, different enlightened people have different ways of helping; each has something to give. Exactly. Which is one reason the stick to one teacher idea may be fatally flawed. One teacher may work for a student for a while, but then the student's body/mind construct develops defenses against that teacher, and relegates him/her to the status quo. At that point, going to see another teacher who has a completely different out of the status quo box style may have a beneficial effect on the student. It doesn't make the second teacher any better, just different. And sometimes difference can make all the difference. :-) We are all here to help each other become enlightened as quickly as possible, realizing the state of the world, and our place in it. Don't minimize your own enlightenment, and just witness whatever blocks you perceive to be blocks. And,That's what it's all about.!! Yup. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip I am talking about generic teaching in the above case. In this particular case, i.e. providing an enlightened perspective to the ignorant, the same principle applies. The only issue of any importance whatsoever when discussing overcoming obstacles to enlightenment is *overcoming the obstacles*. If the student persists in bringing up their perspective and insisting that the discussion center on that, for the apparent purpose of avoiding their enlightenment, then the discussion in my view jeopardizes the objective of reaching enlightenment, and is therefore irrelevant. Well, shore. But it isn't clear to me that this is even germane to what I'm trying to get at. I would quibble with for the apparent purpose of avoiding their enlightenment, though. I'd prefer the phrasing with the apparent effect (from the teacher's perspective) of keeping the student from enlightenment. It is like being disciplined as a child. If we are always presented with just the child's point of view, we never grow up. So the realities of the enlightened and the ignorant are quite different, and at the same time it greatly behooves the ignorant to be exposed to the naked reality of the enlightened, if they truly want to gain that release of suffering for themselves. It seems Gauci believes this teacher's naked reality encompassed both realities. He thinks of it as true compassion. An enlightened reality necessarily encompasses *all* realities, ignorant, enlightened and everything in between. True compassion however does not jeopardize the message of the teacher to the student. If it does, it is not true compassion because it allows the suffering of the student to continue. Again, granted, but not germane to my point. Do you see the difference between You're trying to avoid becoming enlightened and I perceive that the way you're going about this is getting in the way of your enlightenment? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] If that's what you want out of a spiritual teacher, I'm sure there are many out there who will provide it. Me, I'd be happier with someone who told me the truth. snip Of course, the ignorant are always free to continue suffering eternally if that is their choice; forever approaching freedom and then backing away, because the perceived pain of confronting their boundaries is greater than the perceived reward of freedom from suffering. Totally their choice. Personally, I call that fence sitting and it has never any much benefit for me. How many kids have you raised? I am raising my daughter (14) if that's what you mean. The point being that there must be a balance to raise a child properly and give them loving and good guidance. If I was always following my child's lead, she wouldn't like it much, nor would I. To avoid sharing wisdom with someone is absurd, unless you have none to share. A 14-year-old is basically an immature adult. BIIIG difference between 14 and, say, 4. If you deal with a 4 year old as though they're an adult, they may well not have a clue what you're talking about, NOT because they don't have the life-experiences to related, but because they don't have the processing ability to grasp the concepts. Right. Suppose you told your 4-year-old child that one day you would die, and they would never see you again? And you added that while this probably wouldn't happen for many years, it very well could happen tomorrow? That would certainly be the truth, but telling your child this truth would be very likely to do them some serious psychological damage. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you see the difference between You're trying to avoid becoming enlightened and I perceive that the way you're going about this is getting in the way of your enlightenment? I know that this question was posed to Jim, but I'll have a shot at it if you don't mind. It seems to me that the only difference between the two statements is phraseology and the speaker's perception of the adultness of the person being spoken to. The latter phrasing is the way one would say this to a person you perceive as a child, or as someone who is *likely to* misunderstand and overreact to the more blunt expression of the same thing in the former statement. I suggest that the former statement can be actually seen as being more *complimentary* than the latter, in that the phrasing suggests that the person being spoken to in such a fashion is regarded as an adult and is thus able to handle the truth wthout candy coating. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] If that's what you want out of a spiritual teacher, I'm sure there are many out there who will provide it. Me, I'd be happier with someone who told me the truth. What is truth? I am curious because I cannot figure out what role you have taken? Are you Sokrates? Or maybe Pontius Pilate? :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Just to clarify a bit -- in calling the cause of suffering stories, I am not trying to denigrate the experience of suffering itself, which is certainly real enough -- merely attempting to point out that the suffering arises from self- created mental dramas which can be unraveled with a bit of inquiry/analysis (perhaps akin to Patanjali's yoga is control of thought-waves of the mind). Or perhaps not. What you're talking about is psychology. Nothing wrong with psychology per se, but it's my distinct impression that isn't what Patanjali was into. Also, I wonder if Buddha would have agreed that Life is what arises from self-created mental dramas which can be unraveled with a bit of inquiry/analysis. ;-) What you mention: akin to Patanjali's yoga is control of thought- waves of the mind. I think would be the opposite. From my understanding of Sanyama, is that we learn to hold pure- consciousness(the simplest state of awareness), while we hold an intention. If you wish to unravel mental dramas; I feel you must do the opposite, of 'control'. We are learning to 'let go' not 'control. The whole process is to be innocent/ By witnessing, or just watching the mental dramas, realizing we are not the mental dramas, by witnessing or watching the feelings that arise from these mental dramas, by witnessing or watching we dissolve the mental dramas or any other type of drama, and what is left, is no drama. The drama doesn't have to be figured out, it just needs release... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] If that's what you want out of a spiritual teacher, I'm sure there are many out there who will provide it. Me, I'd be happier with someone who told me the truth. snip Of course, the ignorant are always free to continue suffering eternally if that is their choice; forever approaching freedom and then backing away, because the perceived pain of confronting their boundaries is greater than the perceived reward of freedom from suffering. Totally their choice. Personally, I call that fence sitting and it has never any much benefit for me. How many kids have you raised? I am raising my daughter (14) if that's what you mean. The point being that there must be a balance to raise a child properly and give them loving and good guidance. If I was always following my child's lead, she wouldn't like it much, nor would I. To avoid sharing wisdom with someone is absurd, unless you have none to share. A 14-year-old is basically an immature adult. BIIIG difference between 14 and, say, 4. If you deal with a 4 year old as though they're an adult, they may well not have a clue what you're talking about, NOT because they don't have the life-experiences to related, but because they don't have the processing ability to grasp the concepts. Right. Suppose you told your 4-year-old child that one day you would die, and they would never see you again? And you added that while this probably wouldn't happen for many years, it very well could happen tomorrow? That would certainly be the truth, but telling your child this truth would be very likely to do them some serious psychological damage. Or it might just enable the child to grow up with a realistic approach to death and dying, as opposed to the fantasyland of the Western approach to dying. What you described is the way that Tibetans I knew in Santa Fe raised their kids. Those kids were among the happiest and most well-adjusted I've ever met. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This entire thread has pointed up for me the damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't nature of spiritual teaching. Yup yup yup. A teacher who won't accept the overshadowing of a person in ignorance will be accused of insensitivity. The teacher who shows too much compassion -- or perhaps compassion of the wrong type -- is accused of enabling the student's ignorance. A related thought: a friend studying with Course in Miracles teacher Robert Perry sent me a lesson recently in which Perry discussed the ways that empathy, normally an admirable trait, can be used to reinforce the ego and attack a person. So there's healthy empathy, which contributes to the Course's holy instant, and there's dysfunctional empathy, which reinforces suffering. So it's another caveat for the student of spiritual growth: is this teacher's seeming insensitivity really just tough love? Or is that teacher's compassion reinforcing the story I use to hide from my true nature as a liberated being? Perhaps the appropriate question is, How is what the teacher is saying affecting me? Do I find it liberating--does it inspire me to expand into it, to drop my boundaries--or do I experience it as constricting, a painful pinch that only makes me want to withdraw into myself? And if I tell the teacher it's the latter, is the teacher's response helpful, or does it just make things worse? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Er, I think you accidentally incorporated your own response into the syntax of the response sequence. It was more like, What is the truth you want to be told? And truth as seen from what state of consciousness? I don't think it was an accident :-) I knew you'd say that... Always happy to oblige a heart-friend :-) Rory... Never mind. Exactly! :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website The Pain Body
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Exactly. Which is one reason the stick to one teacher idea may be fatally flawed. One teacher may work for a student for a while, but then the student's body/mind construct develops defenses against that teacher, and relegates him/her to the status quo. At that point, going to see another teacher who has a completely different out of the status quo box style may have a beneficial effect on the student. It doesn't make the second teacher any better, just different. And sometimes difference can make all the difference. :-) Nicely put. This is how Carla Gordan, Robin Carlson, the McGees, and others worked for me -- set up nice cross-currents to destroy the samskaric grooves that had become complacent and accustomed to MMY :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Just to clarify a bit -- in calling the cause of suffering stories, I am not trying to denigrate the experience of suffering itself, which is certainly real enough -- merely attempting to point out that the suffering arises from self- created mental dramas which can be unraveled with a bit of inquiry/analysis (perhaps akin to Patanjali's yoga is control of thought-waves of the mind). Or perhaps not. What you're talking about is psychology. Nothing wrong with psychology per se, but it's my distinct impression that isn't what Patanjali was into. Also, I wonder if Buddha would have agreed that Life is what arises from self-created mental dramas which can be unraveled with a bit of inquiry/analysis. ;-) What you mention: akin to Patanjali's yoga is control of thought- waves of the mind. I think would be the opposite. From my understanding of Sanyama, is that we learn to hold pure- consciousness(the simplest state of awareness), while we hold an intention. If you wish to unravel mental dramas; I feel you must do the opposite, of 'control'. We are learning to 'let go' not 'control. The whole process is to be innocent/ By witnessing, or just watching the mental dramas, realizing we are not the mental dramas, by witnessing or watching the feelings that arise from these mental dramas, by witnessing or watching we dissolve the mental dramas or any other type of drama, and what is left, is no drama. The drama doesn't have to be figured out, it just needs release... Agreed, absolutely. The BK inquiry/analysis I refer to is simply to bring an easy counter-current to the one that the mind is *habitually* involved in, *totally* sold out to as *the* Reality (which belief is the root-cause of the suffering) -- effectively dissolving it back into THAT. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Question below. authfriend wrote: I don't think you'd care for him much. Here's his description of one of the teachers who works with Saniel Bonder, from the Web site: What follows sounds like a great way to interact with people. Why do you say I don't think you'd care for him much, Judy? Are you being sarcastic? Densely, Patrick Gillam I was going to comment at the time you posted this, Patrick, that what I thought was going on was that Judy had had her buttons pushed by something I said, and was trying to start a thread that would give her a chance to retaliate by dumping on me. As it turns out, that's exactly how it turned out. :-) horselaugh Barry, I hate to tell you this, but everything is *not* about you. In fact, what I posted was a continuation, from my perspective, of the discussion I'd been having with Rory. I had taken a look at Krishna Gauci's Web site, seen that quote and thought it was a propos--an actual (presumably) enlightened person echoing what I'd been saying--and was then looking for an appropriate context in which to post it here. You were by no means the only person who had reacted negatively to what I had said to Rory. You just happened to be the first of these to make a comment about Gauci; you were just a convenient vehicle. If you felt dumped on, that reaction belongs to you, not to me. In response to Patrick, I cited two anti- quotes (or paraphrases), one from you and the other from Rory. I could have cited several others, but those were the two that came immediately to mind, yours because it had been relatively recent, and Rory's because it referred to the specific experience of mine I had been grousing about with him. Little did I know that the thing that set her off was me merely pointing out the obvious (from one spiritual point of view), Nope, wasn't what set me off, sorry. that Maharishi's theory of enlightenment being blocked* by stress is just an intellectual excuse that those who believe themselves unenlightened can cling to to preserve their illusion of unenlightenment. Or, it can be something they see as a practical means for realizing their enlightenment, which might otherwise seem like an impossible dream. Of course, this all begs the question of whether stress *does* get in the way of realization, and whether releasing it facilitates realization. (It isn't only MMY's idea, of course; the notion of the need to get rid of impurities and samskaras is deeply rooted in the yogic tradition. Stress is just a convenient modern English term for it.) snip Bad stress. Evil stress. If it weren't for stress, I'd be enlightened. Another useful aspect of the stress/samskaras idea is to convey to the student that while it's their responsibility to get rid of it, they aren't to blame for having accumulated it in the first place. This can be potentially liberating. snip P.S. In case you've never encountered it, one approach that is sometimes taken by some spiritual teachers when dealing with students who have established a history of clinging to their stories is to poke fun at the student for doing so. Since this number has been run on me many times, I can attest that sometimes it works, and the student actually makes a break- through and laughs at him self or her self and the stories no longer have any power over them. Sometimes all it does is reinforce the stories and make the student angry. Basically, for both student and teacher, it's a crapshoot...you never know how it's going to turn out. I'd suggest that being able to correctly determine how it's going to turn out is the sign of a good teacher (skillful means and all that). To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This entire thread has pointed up for me the damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't nature of spiritual teaching. Exactly. And the whole problem is that some in this thread are suggesting that there is a right way to be a spiritual teacher. IMO that's a lot like every other theory that proposes a one size fits all approach...it's unrealiistic and ineffective. Teachers are different. They have different approaches, based on their individual paths, their individual predilections, and their individual personalities. Students are different. They, too have individual predilections and personalities. Some students feel more comfortable with a teacher who teaches a certain way; others feel more comfortable with a teacher who teaches a completely opposite way. Where is the problem in this? The problem occurs when the teacher evokes a response from the student that is clearly not what he or she intended and which demonstrates that what the teacher had said was distinctly counterproductive--and the teacher not only doesn't back off and try another approach, but continues to ram the first approach down the student's throat, even blaming the student for having had that negative reaction in the first place. Skillful means, again. It isn't a matter of using a one-size-fits-all approach, to the contrary. It's a matter of being able to find the approach that will most benefit the student. That's the kind of empathy I'm talking about. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip In our Philosophy of Science core course at MIU in 1977, David Clay deconstructed the stress theory and clarified its shortcomings. It was a clarifying if understated moments in my Maharishi education. I'd be interested to hear whatever you remember of what he said. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you see the difference between You're trying to avoid becoming enlightened and I perceive that the way you're going about this is getting in the way of your enlightenment? I know that this question was posed to Jim, but I'll have a shot at it if you don't mind. It seems to me that the only difference between the two statements is phraseology and the speaker's perception of the adultness of the person being spoken to. Actually the second version is more accurate. The latter phrasing is the way one would say this to a person you perceive as a child, or as someone who is *likely to* misunderstand and overreact to the more blunt expression of the same thing in the former statement. I suggest that the former statement can be actually seen as being more *complimentary* than the latter, in that the phrasing suggests that the person being spoken to in such a fashion is regarded as an adult and is thus able to handle the truth wthout candy coating. *If* that perception is correct. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Bad stress. Evil stress. If it weren't for stress, I'd be enlightened. Another useful aspect of the stress/samskaras idea is to convey to the student that while it's their responsibility to get rid of it, they aren't to blame for having accumulated it in the first place. This can be potentially liberating. I should point out that according to the theory of karma, they *are*, in fact, responsible for having accumulated the samskaras in the first place. Which is why liberation is possible. Having created the karma via thought and action, one can create balancing karma via different thoughts and actions and effectively nullify the samskaras. snip P.S. In case you've never encountered it, one approach that is sometimes taken by some spiritual teachers when dealing with students who have established a history of clinging to their stories is to poke fun at the student for doing so. Since this number has been run on me many times, I can attest that sometimes it works, and the student actually makes a break- through and laughs at him self or her self and the stories no longer have any power over them. Sometimes all it does is reinforce the stories and make the student angry. Basically, for both student and teacher, it's a crapshoot...you never know how it's going to turn out. I'd suggest that being able to correctly determine how it's going to turn out is the sign of a good teacher (skillful means and all that). If that were true, every enlightened teacher would have created a bunch of enlightened students. But it didn't turn out that way. Therefore, I stick with the term crapshoot. Sometimes you roll a 7, sometimes snake eyes. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip A 14-year-old is basically an immature adult. BIIIG difference between 14 and, say, 4. If you deal with a 4 year old as though they're an adult, they may well not have a clue what you're talking about, NOT because they don't have the life-experiences to related, but because they don't have the processing ability to grasp the concepts. Right. Suppose you told your 4-year-old child that one day you would die, and they would never see you again? And you added that while this probably wouldn't happen for many years, it very well could happen tomorrow? That would certainly be the truth, but telling your child this truth would be very likely to do them some serious psychological damage. Or it might just enable the child to grow up with a realistic approach to death and dying, as opposed to the fantasyland of the Western approach to dying. What you described is the way that Tibetans I knew in Santa Fe raised their kids. Those kids were among the happiest and most well-adjusted I've ever met. Might work in that cultural context, depending on exactly how it was done. In the Western cultural context, and phrased as I did above, it would be a disaster. Giving the child a realistic approach to death and dying, moreover, is not necessarily something that can only be successfully accomplished if you start at the age of 4. (Also, I wouldn't automatically take your word for it that the Tibetan children were all that happy or well adjusted.) But Lawson's point had to do with a child's neurological development, not just with psychology. I don't know the exact cutoff point of the Piagetian stages of development, but there are certain concepts a child is literally incapable of dealing with, no matter how intelligent the child or how sensitively conveyed, before certain neurological hookups in the brain have been completed. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Perhaps the appropriate question is, How is what the teacher is saying affecting me? Do I find it liberating--does it inspire me to expand into it, to drop my boundaries--or do I experience it as constricting, a painful pinch that only makes me want to withdraw into myself? And if I tell the teacher it's the latter, is the teacher's response helpful, or does it just make things worse? Yeah, agreed. Certain themes reoccur in this forum. This is the sort of post that would go in a folder labeled How to pursue a sadhana and manage your teachers. - PJG To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip A 14-year-old is basically an immature adult. BIIIG difference between 14 and, say, 4. If you deal with a 4 year old as though they're an adult, they may well not have a clue what you're talking about, NOT because they don't have the life-experiences to related, but because they don't have the processing ability to grasp the concepts. Right. Suppose you told your 4-year-old child that one day you would die, and they would never see you again? And you added that while this probably wouldn't happen for many years, it very well could happen tomorrow? That would certainly be the truth, but telling your child this truth would be very likely to do them some serious psychological damage. Or it might just enable the child to grow up with a realistic approach to death and dying, as opposed to the fantasyland of the Western approach to dying. What you described is the way that Tibetans I knew in Santa Fe raised their kids. Those kids were among the happiest and most well-adjusted I've ever met. Might work in that cultural context, depending on exactly how it was done. In the Western cultural context, and phrased as I did above, it would be a disaster. That's certainly a story you tell yourself. Is it true? What might happen if the parents simply talked to the child as if there were an immortal being dwelling in that child's body, one that had lived and died tens of thousands of times, and thus might not have a big problem with the reality of death? If I get the gist of what you're saying, you would never in a million years try such an approach, because *you* are convinced that the Western child couldn't handle it. It is *your* fears driving the situation, not the child's. Giving the child a realistic approach to death and dying, moreover, is not necessarily something that can only be successfully accomplished if you start at the age of 4. That's the story you tell yourself. I have seen evidence to the contrary. I had probably the best discussion in my *life* on the nature of death and dying with a four- year-old. She grew up to be a rather balanced and successful young woman. I made the decision to talk to her as if there was an eternal being inside her, one who could be talked to as an equal about a friend's death that upset us both. She proved more than deserving of my trust. (Also, I wouldn't automatically take your word for it that the Tibetan children were all that happy or well adjusted.) I think we've established that you wouldn't take my word for it if I said the Earth revolved around the Sun. You'd assume I was lying. :-) That's another of the stories you tell yourself. :-) But Lawson's point had to do with a child's neurological development, not just with psychology. I don't know the exact cutoff point of the Piagetian stages of development, but there are certain concepts a child is literally incapable of dealing with, no matter how intelligent the child or how sensitively conveyed, before certain neurological hookups in the brain have been completed. That a story that scientists tell to gullible people. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Bad stress. Evil stress. If it weren't for stress, I'd be enlightened. Another useful aspect of the stress/samskaras idea is to convey to the student that while it's their responsibility to get rid of it, they aren't to blame for having accumulated it in the first place. This can be potentially liberating. I should point out that according to the theory of karma, they *are*, in fact, responsible for having accumulated the samskaras in the first place. To blame for and responsible for are two *very* different concepts. I don't choose my words at random. snip P.S. In case you've never encountered it, one approach that is sometimes taken by some spiritual teachers when dealing with students who have established a history of clinging to their stories is to poke fun at the student for doing so. Since this number has been run on me many times, I can attest that sometimes it works, and the student actually makes a break- through and laughs at him self or her self and the stories no longer have any power over them. Sometimes all it does is reinforce the stories and make the student angry. Basically, for both student and teacher, it's a crapshoot...you never know how it's going to turn out. I'd suggest that being able to correctly determine how it's going to turn out is the sign of a good teacher (skillful means and all that). If that were true, every enlightened teacher would have created a bunch of enlightened students. Uh, no, I believe I said good teacher, not enlightened teacher. Enlightenment does not automatically make one a good teacher. Nor was I referring to the ultimate goal of the student becoming enlightened, but simply to a degree of progress along the way. Some students, moreover, may achieve realization even with a *bad* teacher; and others may not achieve realization, at least in the current lifetime, with the *best* teacher. But it didn't turn out that way. Therefore, I stick with the term crapshoot. Sometimes you roll a 7, sometimes snake eyes. From another perspective, of course, it's all grist for the mill, and we get what we need when we need it, even if it looks like snake eyes at the time. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip In our Philosophy of Science core course at MIU in 1977, David Clay deconstructed the stress theory and clarified its shortcomings. It was a clarifying if understated moments in my Maharishi education. I'd be interested to hear whatever you remember of what he said. The gist of it was, as I recall, Judy (and we've already established the reliability of my memory in another thread), the stress theory doesn't explain enough of the phenomena we observe as a result of people practicing TM. Here I'm at a loss for an example, though, so please permit me to continue with generalities. Simply removing stress doesn't explain all the creative or growth characteristics of the practice of TM. Those characteristics suggest a larger theory at work which we may call the consciousness theory. It would seem consciousness is a field of all possibilities which, when tapped, makes manifest those possibilities daily life. Sound familiar now? The stress theory deals with removing something physical; the consciousness theory deals wtih adding something spiritual. To relate this to earlier points in this thread, I would say that from the point of view of Patrick Gillam in the 1970s, it was way more compassionate for a TM teacher to speak in terms of removing stress. From my point of view now, I'd rather hear about consciousness. Perhaps other MIU alums from that era could elaborate upon or correct what I've written above. George DeForest? Peter Sutphen? Or maybe Rick Archer could get input from the teacher, David Clay. You know everyone else, Rick, so I'm just assuming... ; ) - Patrick Gillam To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This entire thread has pointed up for me the damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't nature of spiritual teaching. Exactly. And the whole problem is that some in this thread are suggesting that there is a right way to be a spiritual teacher. IMO that's a lot like every other theory that proposes a one size fits all approach...it's unrealiistic and ineffective. Teachers are different. They have different approaches, based on their individual paths, their individual predilections, and their individual personalities. Students are different. They, too have individual predilections and personalities. Some students feel more comfortable with a teacher who teaches a certain way; others feel more comfortable with a teacher who teaches a completely opposite way. Where is the problem in this? The problem occurs when the teacher evokes a response from the student that is clearly not what he or she intended Sez who? Since you were essentially asking the question with regard to my thesis, I responded from my perspective. There are traditions in which the teacher *deliberately* sets out to push the students' buttons. The more they are pushed, the better he has done his job. Be a good idea to actually read the words you're responding to, in this case the words clearly not what [the teacher] intended. Also the words that follow, distinctly counterproductive: ...and which demonstrates that what the teacher had said was distinctly counterproductive--and the teacher not only doesn't back off and try another approach, but continues to ram the first approach down the student's throat, even blaming the student for having had that negative reaction in the first place. You are *again* trying to judge the effectiveness of a teaching that is supposed to eliminate ignorance *from the point of view of ignorance*. duh Who CARES what the student thinks about his buttons being pushed if the button-pushing eventually creates a situation in the student's mind/body construct that allows it to drop its stories and realize its essential nature as enlightenment? Clearly not what the teacher intended...distinctly counterproductive. You are essentially saying that the teacher should tailor his teaching to the limitations of the student. That seems to me a rather effective method for perpetuating ignorance. Clearly not what the teacher intended...distinctly counterproductive. Think of it in terms of a drug-addiction analogy. The teacher is trying to get the student to realize that he is addicted to a dangerous drug (ignorance, the ego, self, his stories). The student doesn't LIKE being told this. So you're saying that the teacher should back off and tell the student that he ISN'T addicted to drugs, or that his drug dependency wasn't his own fautt? :-) Clearly not what the teacher intended...distinctly counterproductive. Skillful means, again. It isn't a matter of using a one-size-fits-all approach, to the contrary. It's a matter of being able to find the approach that will most benefit the student. That's the kind of empathy I'm talking about. And how's that worked out for you? (apologies to Dr. Phil) You've stated that you're *comfortable* with Maharishi's non-threatening, non-challenging sweet truth approach. I don't believe I said that, actually. Have you realized your own enlightenment? Might it be possible that a more direct approach might have helped you realize it more quickly? Is everything perfect just the way it is? That kind of hypothetical is fundamentally meaningless. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip [I wrote:] Giving the child a realistic approach to death and dying, moreover, is not necessarily something that can only be successfully accomplished if you start at the age of 4. That's the story you tell yourself. I have seen evidence to the contrary. Read the words, please, Barry. Is what you go on to say really evidence to the contrary of what I wrote? I had probably the best discussion in my *life* on the nature of death and dying with a four- year-old. She grew up to be a rather balanced and successful young woman. This was your daughter, right? snip (Also, I wouldn't automatically take your word for it that the Tibetan children were all that happy or well adjusted.) I think we've established that you wouldn't take my word for it if I said the Earth revolved around the Sun. You'd assume I was lying. :-) That's another of the stories you tell yourself. :-) I just don't consider your judgment to be anything like infallible. That's a story *you* tell *your*self. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip In our Philosophy of Science core course at MIU in 1977, David Clay deconstructed the stress theory and clarified its shortcomings. It was a clarifying if understated moments in my Maharishi education. I'd be interested to hear whatever you remember of what he said. The gist of it was, as I recall, Judy (and we've already established the reliability of my memory in another thread), the stress theory doesn't explain enough of the phenomena we observe as a result of people practicing TM. Here I'm at a loss for an example, though, so please permit me to continue with generalities. Simply removing stress doesn't explain all the creative or growth characteristics of the practice of TM. Those characteristics suggest a larger theory at work which we may call the consciousness theory. It would seem consciousness is a field of all possibilities which, when tapped, makes manifest those possibilities daily life. Sound familiar now? The stress theory deals with removing something physical; the consciousness theory deals wtih adding something spiritual. Sure, but MMY is very insistent that you can't really separate the two. Could it be stress, physical (neurological) impurities, that get in the way of tapping the field of all possibilities? For that matter, is it even *possible* to add anything spiritual, if we are That to begin with? To relate this to earlier points in this thread, I would say that from the point of view of Patrick Gillam in the 1970s, it was way more compassionate for a TM teacher to speak in terms of removing stress. From my point of view now, I'd rather hear about consciousness. Perhaps other MIU alums from that era could elaborate upon or correct what I've written above. George DeForest? Peter Sutphen? Or maybe Rick Archer could get input from the teacher, David Clay. You know everyone else, Rick, so I'm just assuming... ; ) - Patrick Gillam To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This entire thread has pointed up for me the damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't nature of spiritual teaching. Exactly. And the whole problem is that some in this thread are suggesting that there is a right way to be a spiritual teacher. IMO that's a lot like every other theory that proposes a one size fits all approach...it's unrealiistic and ineffective. Teachers are different. They have different approaches, based on their individual paths, their individual predilections, and their individual personalities. Students are different. They, too have individual predilections and personalities. Some students feel more comfortable with a teacher who teaches a certain way; others feel more comfortable with a teacher who teaches a completely opposite way. Where is the problem in this? The problem occurs when the teacher evokes a response from the student that is clearly not what he or she intended Sez who? Since you were essentially asking the question with regard to my thesis, I responded from my perspective. I see. So all of the judgments about not what the teacher intended and counterproductive below should be viewed as having been made from the point of view of ignorance. Thank you for clarifying. There are traditions in which the teacher *deliberately* sets out to push the students' buttons. The more they are pushed, the better he has done his job. Be a good idea to actually read the words you're responding to, in this case the words clearly not what [the teacher] intended. As seen by the ignorant from the point of view of ignorance. Also the words that follow, distinctly counterproductive: As seen by the ignorant from the point of view of ignorance. ...and which demonstrates that what the teacher had said was distinctly counterproductive--and the teacher not only doesn't back off and try another approach, but continues to ram the first approach down the student's throat, even blaming the student for having had that negative reaction in the first place. You are *again* trying to judge the effectiveness of a teaching that is supposed to eliminate ignorance *from the point of view of ignorance*. duh Who CARES what the student thinks about his buttons being pushed if the button-pushing eventually creates a situation in the student's mind/body construct that allows it to drop its stories and realize its essential nature as enlightenment? Clearly not what the teacher intended...distinctly counterproductive. As seen by the ignorant from the point of view of ignorance. You are essentially saying that the teacher should tailor his teaching to the limitations of the student. That seems to me a rather effective method for perpetuating ignorance. Clearly not what the teacher intended...distinctly counterproductive. As seen by the ignorant from the point of view of ignorance. Think of it in terms of a drug-addiction analogy. The teacher is trying to get the student to realize that he is addicted to a dangerous drug (ignorance, the ego, self, his stories). The student doesn't LIKE being told this. So you're saying that the teacher should back off and tell the student that he ISN'T addicted to drugs, or that his drug dependency wasn't his own fautt? :-) Clearly not what the teacher intended...distinctly counterproductive. As seen by the ignorant from the point of view of ignorance. Skillful means, again. It isn't a matter of using a one-size-fits-all approach, to the contrary. It's a matter of being able to find the approach that will most benefit the student. That's the kind of empathy I'm talking about. And hope for, as seen by the ignorant from the point of view of ignorance. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] If that's what you want out of a spiritual teacher, I'm sure there are many out there who will provide it. Me, I'd be happier with someone who told me the truth. snip Of course, the ignorant are always free to continue suffering eternally if that is their choice; forever approaching freedom and then backing away, because the perceived pain of confronting their boundaries is greater than the perceived reward of freedom from suffering. Totally their choice. Personally, I call that fence sitting and it has never any much benefit for me. How many kids have you raised? I am raising my daughter (14) if that's what you mean. The point being that there must be a balance to raise a child properly and give them loving and good guidance. If I was always following my child's lead, she wouldn't like it much, nor would I. To avoid sharing wisdom with someone is absurd, unless you have none to share. A 14-year-old is basically an immature adult. BIIIG difference between 14 and, say, 4. If you deal with a 4 year old as though they're an adult, they may well not have a clue what you're talking about, NOT because they don't have the life-experiences to related, but because they don't have the processing ability to grasp the concepts. Right. Suppose you told your 4-year-old child that one day you would die, and they would never see you again? And you added that while this probably wouldn't happen for many years, it very well could happen tomorrow? That would certainly be the truth, but telling your child this truth would be very likely to do them some serious psychological damage. Or it might just enable the child to grow up with a realistic approach to death and dying, as opposed to the fantasyland of the Western approach to dying. What you described is the way that Tibetans I knew in Santa Fe raised their kids. Those kids were among the happiest and most well-adjusted I've ever met. It also isn't what I was talking about anyway. Death/not-death isn't part of the processing thing, as far as I can tell, at least not past the age where kids learn to talk in sentences. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This entire thread has pointed up for me the damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't nature of spiritual teaching. Exactly. And the whole problem is that some in this thread are suggesting that there is a right way to be a spiritual teacher. IMO that's a lot like every other theory that proposes a one size fits all approach...it's unrealiistic and ineffective. Teachers are different. They have different approaches, based on their individual paths, their individual predilections, and their individual personalities. Students are different. They, too have individual predilections and personalities. Some students feel more comfortable with a teacher who teaches a certain way; others feel more comfortable with a teacher who teaches a completely opposite way. Where is the problem in this? The problem occurs when the teacher evokes a response from the student that is clearly not what he or she intended Sez who? Since you were essentially asking the question with regard to my thesis, I responded from my perspective. I see. So all of the judgments about not what the teacher intended and counterproductive below should be viewed as having been made from the point of view of ignorance. Thank you for clarifying. Uh, no, you didn't quite get it, sorry. There are traditions in which the teacher *deliberately* sets out to push the students' buttons. The more they are pushed, the better he has done his job. Be a good idea to actually read the words you're responding to, in this case the words clearly not what [the teacher] intended. As seen by the ignorant from the point of view of ignorance. Uh, no, from the teacher's perspective. snip more iterations of the same To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip [I wrote:] Giving the child a realistic approach to death and dying, moreover, is not necessarily something that can only be successfully accomplished if you start at the age of 4. That's the story you tell yourself. I have seen evidence to the contrary. Read the words, please, Barry. Is what you go on to say really evidence to the contrary of what I wrote? I had probably the best discussion in my *life* on the nature of death and dying with a four- year-old. She grew up to be a rather balanced and successful young woman. This was your daughter, right? Nope. Don't have any kids of my own. This was the daughter of a friend, whom I helped to raise for many years. She grew into a lovely young woman. snip (Also, I wouldn't automatically take your word for it that the Tibetan children were all that happy or well adjusted.) I think we've established that you wouldn't take my word for it if I said the Earth revolved around the Sun. You'd assume I was lying. :-) That's another of the stories you tell yourself. :-) I just don't consider your judgment to be anything like infallible. That's a story *you* tell *your*self. On the contrary, as I have stated many times before (and as you have chosen to disbelieve many times before), I assume that I am wrong about pretty much *every- thing*. That helps me when I state opinion X one day and then state opinion Y (completely contradictory) the next day. Both were my opinion at the time, from the respective state of attention in which they were stated. Neither has anything to do with truth or infallibility. It's *you* who has the hangup about consistency, remember? :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] But Lawson's point had to do with a child's neurological development, not just with psychology. I don't know the exact cutoff point of the Piagetian stages of development, but there are certain concepts a child is literally incapable of dealing with, no matter how intelligent the child or how sensitively conveyed, before certain neurological hookups in the brain have been completed. That a story that scientists tell to gullible people. :-) Though there's controversy about when and in what order Piagetian stages occur, there's not much controversy about whether or not the core observation is valid or not: kids, at a certain point in their development, simply do NOT grasp certain things. Period. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] But Lawson's point had to do with a child's neurological development, not just with psychology. I don't know the exact cutoff point of the Piagetian stages of development, but there are certain concepts a child is literally incapable of dealing with, no matter how intelligent the child or how sensitively conveyed, before certain neurological hookups in the brain have been completed. That's a story that scientists tell to gullible people. :-) Though there's controversy about when and in what order Piagetian stages occur, there's not much controversy about whether or not the core observation is valid or not: kids, at a certain point in their development, simply do NOT grasp certain things. Period. That's what adults like to tell themselves. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip [I wrote:] Giving the child a realistic approach to death and dying, moreover, is not necessarily something that can only be successfully accomplished if you start at the age of 4. That's the story you tell yourself. I have seen evidence to the contrary. Read the words, please, Barry. Is what you go on to say really evidence to the contrary of what I wrote? Well, is it? I had probably the best discussion in my *life* on the nature of death and dying with a four- year-old. She grew up to be a rather balanced and successful young woman. This was your daughter, right? Nope. Don't have any kids of my own. This was the daughter of a friend, whom I helped to raise for many years. She grew into a lovely young woman. Ah. So that wasn't exactly the situation I postulated, now, was it? snip To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip In our Philosophy of Science core course at MIU in 1977, David Clay deconstructed the stress theory and clarified its shortcomings. It was a clarifying if understated moments in my Maharishi education. I'd be interested to hear whatever you remember of what he said. The gist of it was, as I recall, Judy (and we've already established the reliability of my memory in another thread), the stress theory doesn't explain enough of the phenomena we observe as a result of people practicing TM. Here I'm at a loss for an example, though, so please permit me to continue with generalities. Simply removing stress doesn't explain all the creative or growth characteristics of the practice of TM. Those characteristics suggest a larger theory at work which we may call the consciousness theory. It would seem consciousness is a field of all possibilities which, when tapped, makes manifest those possibilities daily life. Sound familiar now? The stress theory deals with removing something physical; the consciousness theory deals wtih adding something spiritual. To relate this to earlier points in this thread, I would say that from the point of view of Patrick Gillam in the 1970s, it was way more compassionate for a TM teacher to speak in terms of removing stress. From my point of view now, I'd rather hear about consciousness. Perhaps other MIU alums from that era could elaborate upon or correct what I've written above. George DeForest? Peter Sutphen? Or maybe Rick Archer could get input from the teacher, David Clay. You know everyone else, Rick, so I'm just assuming... ; ) I think there's a problem with Clay's own understanding of stress and TM, if he presented things that way: stress in TM isn't physical save in the sense of a memory being physical within the brain's physical/bio-chemical structure. In MMY's definition, stress is that which prevents you from being enlightened, or more accurately, from being in samadhi during TM practice. Repeated exposure to samadhi, or to physiological states that approximate samadhi, change the brain in a way that facilitates samadhi to occur outside of meditation for some noticeable length of time. It's samadhi that is the creative source, not just lack of stress. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Right. Suppose you told your 4-year-old child that one day you would die, and they would never see you again? And you added that while this probably wouldn't happen for many years, it very well could happen tomorrow? That would certainly be the truth, but telling your child this truth would be very likely to do them some serious psychological damage. Or it might just enable the child to grow up with a realistic approach to death and dying, as opposed to the fantasyland of the Western approach to dying. What you described is the way that Tibetans I knew in Santa Fe raised their kids. Those kids were among the happiest and most well-adjusted I've ever met. It also isn't what I was talking about anyway. Death/not-death isn't part of the processing thing, as far as I can tell, at least not past the age where kids learn to talk in sentences. I'm not positive, but I'll bet it's closely related. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] There are traditions in which the teacher *deliberately* sets out to push the students' buttons. The more they are pushed, the better he has done his job. Be a good idea to actually read the words you're responding to, in this case the words clearly not what [the teacher] intended. As seen by the ignorant from the point of view of ignorance. Uh, no, from the teacher's perspective. Assuming that you can be sure what the teacher's perspective/intent might be, of course... snip more iterations of the same To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] But Lawson's point had to do with a child's neurological development, not just with psychology. I don't know the exact cutoff point of the Piagetian stages of development, but there are certain concepts a child is literally incapable of dealing with, no matter how intelligent the child or how sensitively conveyed, before certain neurological hookups in the brain have been completed. That's a story that scientists tell to gullible people. :-) Though there's controversy about when and in what order Piagetian stages occur, there's not much controversy about whether or not the core observation is valid or not: kids, at a certain point in their development, simply do NOT grasp certain things. Period. That's what adults like to tell themselves. :-) You remember your world-view when you were a kid? I remember a few things, including when a Piagetian test was done on me at about age 6. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Right. Suppose you told your 4-year-old child that one day you would die, and they would never see you again? And you added that while this probably wouldn't happen for many years, it very well could happen tomorrow? That would certainly be the truth, but telling your child this truth would be very likely to do them some serious psychological damage. Or it might just enable the child to grow up with a realistic approach to death and dying, as opposed to the fantasyland of the Western approach to dying. What you described is the way that Tibetans I knew in Santa Fe raised their kids. Those kids were among the happiest and most well-adjusted I've ever met. It also isn't what I was talking about anyway. Death/not-death isn't part of the processing thing, as far as I can tell, at least not past the age where kids learn to talk in sentences. I'm not positive, but I'll bet it's closely related. My son was very young when one of his pets died. VERY young. He wanted his pet to come back and I informed him that we couldn't do that because all living things eventually die. He cried But NOT us! I gave him a hug and explained, even us, but not for a really, really, REALLY long time... He calmed down after a while. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip In our Philosophy of Science core course at MIU in 1977, David Clay deconstructed the stress theory and clarified its shortcomings. It was a clarifying if understated moments in my Maharishi education. I'd be interested to hear whatever you remember of what he said. The gist of it was, as I recall, Judy (and we've already established the reliability of my memory in another thread), the stress theory doesn't explain enough of the phenomena we observe as a result of people practicing TM. Here I'm at a loss for an example, though, so please permit me to continue with generalities. Simply removing stress doesn't explain all the creative or growth characteristics of the practice of TM. Those characteristics suggest a larger theory at work which we may call the consciousness theory. It would seem consciousness is a field of all possibilities which, when tapped, makes manifest those possibilities daily life. Sound familiar now? The stress theory deals with removing something physical; the consciousness theory deals wtih adding something spiritual. Sure, but MMY is very insistent that you can't really separate the two. Could it be stress, physical (neurological) impurities, that get in the way of tapping the field of all possibilities? For that matter, is it even *possible* to add anything spiritual, if we are That to begin with? Excellent question; I would have to say No... more a case of witnessing and unraveling the bodymind's samskaras/habit-patterns, which in being fixed and grooved tend to obscure our appreciation of THAT, or THAT's appreciation of THATself through us... :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] There are traditions in which the teacher *deliberately* sets out to push the students' buttons. The more they are pushed, the better he has done his job. Be a good idea to actually read the words you're responding to, in this case the words clearly not what [the teacher] intended. As seen by the ignorant from the point of view of ignorance. Uh, no, from the teacher's perspective. Assuming that you can be sure what the teacher's perspective/intent might be, of course... I don't *have* to be sure in this formulation. I'm stipulating that they're from the teacher's perspective, not claiming to know that perspective in any particular case. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On the contrary, as I have stated many times before (and as you have chosen to disbelieve many times before), I assume that I am wrong about pretty much *every- thing*. That helps me when I state opinion X one day and then state opinion Y (completely contradictory) the next day. Both were my opinion at the time, from the respective state of attention in which they were stated. Neither has anything to do with truth or infallibility. It's *you* who has the hangup about consistency, remember? :-) Judy, with no disrespect intended, this is how I see it too. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip What you described is the way that Tibetans I knew in Santa Fe raised their kids. Those kids were among the happiest and most well-adjusted I've ever met. It also isn't what I was talking about anyway. Death/not-death isn't part of the processing thing, as far as I can tell, at least not past the age where kids learn to talk in sentences. I'm not positive, but I'll bet it's closely related. My son was very young when one of his pets died. VERY young. He wanted his pet to come back and I informed him that we couldn't do that because all living things eventually die. He cried But NOT us! I gave him a hug and explained, even us, but not for a really, really, REALLY long time... He calmed down after a while. Bless him...and you. Obviously a lot of kids *have* to deal with death at a very early age. But sometimes their mental concepts of it are, well, highly imaginative. Doesn't matter, if it gets 'em through the night. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip In our Philosophy of Science core course at MIU in 1977, David Clay deconstructed the stress theory and clarified its shortcomings. It was a clarifying if understated moments in my Maharishi education. I'd be interested to hear whatever you remember of what he said. The gist of it was, as I recall, Judy (and we've already established the reliability of my memory in another thread), the stress theory doesn't explain enough of the phenomena we observe as a result of people practicing TM. Here I'm at a loss for an example, though, so please permit me to continue with generalities. Simply removing stress doesn't explain all the creative or growth characteristics of the practice of TM. Those characteristics suggest a larger theory at work which we may call the consciousness theory. It would seem consciousness is a field of all possibilities which, when tapped, makes manifest those possibilities daily life. Sound familiar now? The stress theory deals with removing something physical; the consciousness theory deals wtih adding something spiritual. Sure, but MMY is very insistent that you can't really separate the two. Could it be stress, physical (neurological) impurities, that get in the way of tapping the field of all possibilities? For that matter, is it even *possible* to add anything spiritual, if we are That to begin with? Excellent question; I would have to say No... more a case of witnessing and unraveling the bodymind's samskaras/habit-patterns As in, releasing stress? , which in being fixed and grooved tend to obscure our appreciation of THAT, or THAT's appreciation of THATself through us... :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] There are traditions in which the teacher *deliberately* sets out to push the students' buttons. The more they are pushed, the better he has done his job. Be a good idea to actually read the words you're responding to, in this case the words clearly not what [the teacher] intended. As seen by the ignorant from the point of view of ignorance. Uh, no, from the teacher's perspective. Assuming that you can be sure what the teacher's perspective/intent might be, of course... Exactly. That is Judy's unchallenged assumption. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] There are traditions in which the teacher *deliberately* sets out to push the students' buttons. The more they are pushed, the better he has done his job. Be a good idea to actually read the words you're responding to, in this case the words clearly not what [the teacher] intended. As seen by the ignorant from the point of view of ignorance. Uh, no, from the teacher's perspective. Assuming that you can be sure what the teacher's perspective/intent might be, of course... Exactly. That is Judy's unchallenged assumption. Wrongaroonie. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Fischer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On the contrary, as I have stated many times before (and as you have chosen to disbelieve many times before), I assume that I am wrong about pretty much *every- thing*. That helps me when I state opinion X one day and then state opinion Y (completely contradictory) the next day. Both were my opinion at the time, from the respective state of attention in which they were stated. Neither has anything to do with truth or infallibility. It's *you* who has the hangup about consistency, remember? :-) Judy, with no disrespect intended, this is how I see it too. That I have a hangup about consistency, or that Barry assumes he's wrong about pretty much everything, or that you assume *you're* wrong about pretty much everything? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Fischer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What might happen if the parents simply talked to the child as if there were an immortal being dwelling in that child's body, one that had lived and died tens of thousands of times, and thus might not have a big problem with the reality of death? I've found if you talk to a child as if he/she were an adult, being careful to use appropriate vocabulary, you will get what Unc is talking about here. We've all been here many times and that immortal being knows the score even while housed in an immature body. Treat the child w/ respect and as more of an equal, companion traveller, and I think you'll be amazed at the results. Exactly. Now move that same approach to the world of spiritual teaching and I think you'd be equally amazed at the results. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] There are traditions in which the teacher *deliberately* sets out to push the students' buttons. The more they are pushed, the better he has done his job. Be a good idea to actually read the words you're responding to, in this case the words clearly not what [the teacher] intended. As seen by the ignorant from the point of view of ignorance. Uh, no, from the teacher's perspective. Assuming that you can be sure what the teacher's perspective/intent might be, of course... Exactly. That is Judy's unchallenged assumption. Judy apparently presumed a divine observer in this convo. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] There are traditions in which the teacher *deliberately* sets out to push the students' buttons. The more they are pushed, the better he has done his job. Be a good idea to actually read the words you're responding to, in this case the words clearly not what [the teacher] intended. As seen by the ignorant from the point of view of ignorance. Uh, no, from the teacher's perspective. Assuming that you can be sure what the teacher's perspective/intent might be, of course... I don't *have* to be sure in this formulation. I'm stipulating that they're from the teacher's perspective, not claiming to know that perspective in any particular case. I have to point out that if anyone else said this, you would accuse them of setting up a straw man argument that has no relationship to reality. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] There are traditions in which the teacher *deliberately* sets out to push the students' buttons. The more they are pushed, the better he has done his job. Be a good idea to actually read the words you're responding to, in this case the words clearly not what [the teacher] intended. As seen by the ignorant from the point of view of ignorance. Uh, no, from the teacher's perspective. Assuming that you can be sure what the teacher's perspective/intent might be, of course... Exactly. That is Judy's unchallenged assumption. Judy apparently presumed a divine observer in this convo. More or less. I *stipulated* that it was the teacher's perspective. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rory: Excellent question; I would have to say No... more a case of witnessing and unraveling the bodymind's samskaras/habit-patterns --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As in, releasing stress? Yes, with the proviso that it is (at some points) not at all automatic, nor will simple TM and normal activity necessarily do the trick. Sometimes we have to consciously face our pain, using all of our inner resources -- not simply meditate away from it :-) Perhaps this will allow things to happen faster, but how do you know it (the TM plus activity thang) won't work at all? which in being fixed and grooved tend to obscure our appreciation of THAT, or THAT's appreciation of THATself through us... :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] There are traditions in which the teacher *deliberately* sets out to push the students' buttons. The more they are pushed, the better he has done his job. Be a good idea to actually read the words you're responding to, in this case the words clearly not what [the teacher] intended. As seen by the ignorant from the point of view of ignorance. Uh, no, from the teacher's perspective. Assuming that you can be sure what the teacher's perspective/intent might be, of course... I don't *have* to be sure in this formulation. I'm stipulating that they're from the teacher's perspective, not claiming to know that perspective in any particular case. I have to point out that if anyone else said this, you would accuse them of setting up a straw man argument that has no relationship to reality. :-) Barry, despite being a writer, in some respects you're semantically challenged. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
Oh shit! Here we go again! Was my snit-fit with Akasha as bad as this? (Yes!!) I respect all of these writers individually, but when they go at it like this --- authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] There are traditions in which the teacher *deliberately* sets out to push the students' buttons. The more they are pushed, the better he has done his job. Be a good idea to actually read the words you're responding to, in this case the words clearly not what [the teacher] intended. As seen by the ignorant from the point of view of ignorance. Uh, no, from the teacher's perspective. Assuming that you can be sure what the teacher's perspective/intent might be, of course... I don't *have* to be sure in this formulation. I'm stipulating that they're from the teacher's perspective, not claiming to know that perspective in any particular case. I have to point out that if anyone else said this, you would accuse them of setting up a straw man argument that has no relationship to reality. :-) Barry, despite being a writer, in some respects you're semantically challenged. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh shit! Here we go again! Was my snit-fit with Akasha as bad as this? (Yes!!) I respect all of these writers individually, but when they go at it like this ...you tend to blindly assume something like a moral equivalency. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh shit! Here we go again! Was my snit-fit with Akasha as bad as this? (Yes!!) Yes. I respect all of these writers individually, but when they go at it like this I'm already out of it. I said what I had to say about the subject, and I don't think I have anything more to add. Some of us actually shut up when this happens. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh shit! Here we go again! Was my snit-fit with Akasha as bad as this? (Yes!!) Yes. I respect all of these writers individually, but when they go at it like this I'm already out of it. I said what I had to say about the subject, and I don't think I have anything more to add. Some of us actually shut up when this happens. :-) What Barry has to say, in other words, is the end of it. There's no need to even consider what anybody else has to say. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snippity snip Do you see the difference between You're trying to avoid becoming enlightened and I perceive that the way you're going about this is getting in the way of your enlightenment? Yes, the first phrasing is about you, and spoken directly to you, so that you are then given the choice to deal with the issue at hand, or not. The second phrasing is about me, and what my perceptions of you are, therefore bringing into question the validity of my perceptions. As I said earlier, while this may be a fascinating topic for you, it avoids the issue at hand; the removal of obstacles to enlightenment. So the difference to me is clear. You persist in making these semantic distinctions, which are irrelevant to the topic at hand. Do I believe that your motive of becoming enlightened is genuine? As Maharishi says, the prrof is in the pudding. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snippity snip Do you see the difference between You're trying to avoid becoming enlightened and I perceive that the way you're going about this is getting in the way of your enlightenment? Yes, the first phrasing is about you, and spoken directly to you, so that you are then given the choice to deal with the issue at hand, or not. The second phrasing is about me, and what my perceptions of you are, therefore bringing into question the validity of my perceptions. As I said earlier, while this may be a fascinating topic for you, it avoids the issue at hand; the removal of obstacles to enlightenment. So the difference to me is clear. You persist in making these semantic distinctions, which are irrelevant to the topic at hand. Do I believe that your motive of becoming enlightened is genuine? As Maharishi says, the prrof is in the pudding. What pudding? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] If that's what you want out of a spiritual teacher, I'm sure there are many out there who will provide it. Me, I'd be happier with someone who told me the truth. What is truth? And from what state of consciousness? Hilarious. It is true that knowledge is different in different states of consciousness. However, in my opinion, we only benefit in our quest for spiritual growth if exposed honestly and forthrightly to an enlightened point of view, no matter the discomfort it causes us. It is like being disciplined as a child. If we are always presented with just the child's point of view, we never grow up. So the realities of the enlightened and the ignorant are quite different, and at the same time it greatly behooves the ignorant to be exposed to the naked reality of the enlightened, if they truly want to gain that release of suffering for themselves. Of course, the ignorant are always free to continue suffering eternally if that is their choice; forever approaching freedom and then backing away, because the perceived pain of confronting their boundaries is greater than the perceived reward of freedom from suffering. Totally their choice. Personally, I call that fence sitting and it has never any much benefit for me. How many kids have you raised? I am raising my daughter (14) if that's what you mean. The point being that there must be a balance to raise a child properly and give them loving and good guidance. If I was always following my child's lead, she wouldn't like it much, nor would I. To avoid sharing wisdom with someone is absurd, unless you have none to share. A 14-year-old is basically an immature adult. BIIIG difference between 14 and, say, 4. If you deal with a 4 year old as though they're an adult, they may well not have a clue what you're talking about, NOT because they don't have the life-experiences to related, but because they don't have the processing ability to grasp the concepts. I don't deal with my 14 year old as if she is an adult, nor did I deal with her as such when she was 4. When she was 4 I dealt with her as a 4 year old. Now I deal with her as a 14 year old. Age appropriate. I was discussing relative states of wisdom, and the responsibility we have to help others when we are aware of something they may not be. Another example: When I want to find out what is wrong with my car, I ask a mechanic, not the guy that delivers my newspaper. And if the mechanic is doing his job, he tells me what is wrong with my car. Two things must occur if my car is to be fixed. One I must trust him and his knowledge, and two, he must honestly tell me what is wrong. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snippity snip Do you see the difference between You're trying to avoid becoming enlightened and I perceive that the way you're going about this is getting in the way of your enlightenment? Yes, the first phrasing is about you, and spoken directly to you, so that you are then given the choice to deal with the issue at hand, or not. The second phrasing is about me, and what my perceptions of you are, therefore bringing into question the validity of my perceptions. As I said earlier, while this may be a fascinating topic for you, it avoids the issue at hand; the removal of obstacles to enlightenment. So the difference to me is clear. You persist in making these semantic distinctions, which are irrelevant to the topic at hand. Do I believe that your motive of becoming enlightened is genuine? As Maharishi says, the prrof is in the pudding. What pudding? As Maharishi says, The proof is in the pudding. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rory: Excellent question; I would have to say No... more a case of witnessing and unraveling the bodymind's samskaras/habit- patterns --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As in, releasing stress? Yes, with the proviso that it is (at some points) not at all automatic, nor will simple TM and normal activity necessarily do the trick. Sometimes we have to consciously face our pain, using all of our inner resources -- not simply meditate away from it :-) Yes, this was one of my big *wake up* calls. I had wondered for years at what I saw as imperfections in the personalities of many *Governors of the Age of Enlightenment*, since they had been following Maharishi's instructions to the letter. Alarm bells were going off- I couldn't reconcile what he said with the apparent reality. And also meditating away from my pain as you put it didn't work either. Sometimes I'd have a deep clear experience and feel stress free for awhile, but then find myself embroiled in this hideous version of the world I had created for myself, with no way out, save an expression Maharishi had used, The world is as you are; live unbounded awareness. I believed that, thuogh I had no tools from Maharishi or the Movement to make the leap between where I was and that. So as Barry has put so well, I found a different perspective from Maharishi's and that worked quite nicely thank you. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rory: Excellent question; I would have to say No... more a case of witnessing and unraveling the bodymind's samskaras/habit- patterns --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As in, releasing stress? Yes, with the proviso that it is (at some points) not at all automatic, nor will simple TM and normal activity necessarily do the trick. Sometimes we have to consciously face our pain, using all of our inner resources -- not simply meditate away from it :- ) Perhaps this will allow things to happen faster, but how do you know it (the TM plus activity thang) won't work at all? Oh, I don't; anything is possible; I am only speaking from personal experience. If it comes to that, *anything* can work; divine grace is *that* good. As Judy says, even bus-fumes can free us. It was my experience that at a certain point, adherence to a path was obstructing the realization of the perfection of what IS. Belief in the automatic progress of TM-plus-activity had to go in favor of bringing all my resources to bear on taking care of the pain in front of me Now. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] If that's what you want out of a spiritual teacher, I'm sure there are many out there who will provide it. Me, I'd be happier with someone who told me the truth. What is truth? I am curious because I cannot figure out what role you have taken? Are you Sokrates? Or maybe Pontius Pilate? :-) The bagpipers of Pontius Pilate? :0 To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip Do I believe that your motive of becoming enlightened is genuine? As Maharishi says, the prrof is in the pudding. What pudding? As Maharishi says, The proof is in the pudding. (You could always try asking him again, Sparaig.) I suspect what he means is that as long as I'm not claiming to be enlightened, he's suspicious that my my motive to become enlightened isn't genuine. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
If that's what you want out of a spiritual teacher, I'm sure there are many out there who will provide it. Me, I'd be happier with someone who told me the truth. What is truth? I am curious because I cannot figure out what role you have taken? Are you Sokrates? Or maybe Pontius Pilate? :-) The bagpipers of Pontius Pilate? :0 An interesting image. I'm getting visuals of a Life Of Brian-like procession to Calgary, with bagpipers leading the way, followed by Pontius Pilate (played by Bevan, of course), then a bunch of Rajas in their robes and crowns, followed by Christ, who is sporting (or at least carrying) wood. The Raja wives are in the back of the procession, and are not mentioned in the film's credits, because none of them actually have names. The pipers are playing a bitchin' version of Dylan's All Along the Watchtower. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] If that's what you want out of a spiritual teacher, I'm sure there are many out there who will provide it. Me, I'd be happier with someone who told me the truth. What is truth? I am curious because I cannot figure out what role you have taken? Are you Sokrates? Or maybe Pontius Pilate? :-) The bagpipers of Pontius Pilate? :0 If Pontius Pilate picked a meta-pile of pipers, how many piles of pipers did Pontius Pilate pick? :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snippity snip Do you see the difference between You're trying to avoid becoming enlightened and I perceive that the way you're going about this is getting in the way of your enlightenment? Yes, the first phrasing is about you, and spoken directly to you, so that you are then given the choice to deal with the issue at hand, or not. The second phrasing is about me, and what my perceptions of you are, therefore bringing into question the validity of my perceptions. As I said earlier, while this may be a fascinating topic for you, it avoids the issue at hand; the removal of obstacles to enlightenment. So the difference to me is clear. You persist in making these semantic distinctions, which are irrelevant to the topic at hand. So if an enlightened person tells me, You're trying to avoid become enlightened, I am to assume that's the Way It Is? I see. Do I believe that your motive of becoming enlightened is genuine? As Maharishi says, the prrof is in the pudding. I'm really kind of astonished at how *prickly* this topic seems to make many of you, as if it were bringing up something you didn't really want to look at yourselves. What that could be, I have no idea. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting website
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snippity snip Do you see the difference between You're trying to avoid becoming enlightened and I perceive that the way you're going about this is getting in the way of your enlightenment? Yes, the first phrasing is about you, and spoken directly to you, so that you are then given the choice to deal with the issue at hand, or not. The second phrasing is about me, and what my perceptions of you are, therefore bringing into question the validity of my perceptions. As I said earlier, while this may be a fascinating topic for you, it avoids the issue at hand; the removal of obstacles to enlightenment. So the difference to me is clear. You persist in making these semantic distinctions, which are irrelevant to the topic at hand. Do I believe that your motive of becoming enlightened is genuine? As Maharishi says, the prrof is in the pudding. What pudding? As Maharishi says, The proof is in the pudding. What pudding? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
