[Finale] Sibelius 5 - the link

[Johannes Gebauer]

http://www.sibelius.com/products/sibelius/5/index.html

Johannes
--
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[Finale] Sibelius 5 announced

[Johannes Gebauer]

Sibelius 5 has been announced. Looking at the new features briefly, I 
see they have added easy cue notes. Perhaps finally Finale will include 
such, too? I have been asking for it for years.


Johannes
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Re: [Finale] errors in instrument.txt and ensembles.txt now OT trombones

[Raymond Horton]

Andrew Stiller wrote:
Thank you, Ray for straightening this out so accurately. I had thrown 
up my hands at any attempt to clear the air on this one, but you have 
done so admirably. My one quibble:


Before valves, in Germany a low F trombone was a "bass trombone" and 
was similar bore size to today's large bore tenor.  It was a rare 
instrument, much more common was a Bb "bass" with no valve.


Trombones in those days were almost always were almost always scored 
in threes, designated alto, tenor, bass. They were in Eb, Bb, and F 
respectively (lowest note of the bass routinely given as C below the 
bass staff). These are the exact same sizes in wh. they had been 
manufactured since the 16th c.


I cannot imagine what a (valveless) Bb bass trombone would be, nor how 
it could play the low notes Eb, D, Db, or C.


Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Press
http://www.kallistimusic.com/

Yes, you give the generally accepted  knowledge on that subject.  
Nevertheless, according to some recent scholarship in the area, from 
Howard Weiner, particularly, also Ken Shifrin, that generally accepted 
knowledge is more than likely dead wrong.  Howard has spent a good 
portion of time in Europe researching this subject, studying 
instruments, paintings and all that jazz, and has concluded that by the 
time of Mozart the bass trombone in F was quite rare, and even the alto 
was not all that available.  Often times "alto, tenor and bass" referred 
to three Bb instruments played simply with different mouthpieces.. 



I know the F bass was rare, and considered very difficult to play. A Bb 
bass was much more the norm.  I am not certain just how rare was the alto. 



The low notes on the bass trombone part were played as _falset_ notes, 
what modern players often call "fake notes."   These start at low Gb in 
first position, meaning a low Eb in 4th, D in 5th, etc.  Quite playable, 
especially on smaller bore instruments, esp. on instruments that do not 
focus as well as modern ones.  Howard has found a few 18th century 
charts that show these positions. 



I particularly asked Howard on line a couple of years ago about the bass 
trb part in Haydn's Creation, which would not be playable on an F bass.  
It would be playable on an Eb bass, but I knew that these would be 
unlikely.  His reply was - almost certainly a Bb instrument with falset 
notes.



RBH





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Re: [Finale] errors in instrument.txt and ensembles.txt

[dhbailey]

Mark D Lew wrote:


On Jun 7, 2007, at 6:07 AM, Christopher Smith wrote:

Actually, you can easily edit the Instrument.txt using any text 
editor. The problem is if you make a mistake! I haven't bothered to 
try yet, but now I mentioned it and have time...


If that's true, then any programmer ought to be able to write a little 
utility with a user-friendly interface for editing it.  It wouldn't even 
have to be a plug-in, since it's only manipulating a text file.




That's true but I would much rather have it built-in somehow to Finale, 
either as a plug-in or as a built-in part of the Program Settings 
dialog.  That way we could edit things from within the program, and I 
would hope that when they do that they would also build into the thing 
that upon exiting the edit instrument.txt/ensemble.txt utility, the 
newly edited data would be automatically available to Finale for use in 
a new project.




--
David H. Bailey
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[Finale] Sibelius 5 has been announced and Finale had better start coming up with significant improvements!

[dhbailey]

Sibelius 5 has been announced, and final barrier to many Finale users 
has fallen.  They now have their version of  scroll-view, called Panorama.


For many of us, that has been a major sticking point in converting our 
workflow to Sibelius, and with this new release, scheduled to ship at 
the end of this month, there may be a new mass-exodus from Finale to 
Sibelius.


There are other enhancements, including Kontakt2 with a whole new bank 
of sounds which has been built from several soundbanks including GPO, so 
that there will apparently be a more complete instrument list than 
GPO-Finale has, included in the program.  For the past year, 
GPO-Sibelius was an extra-cost add-on.  There are advanced page layout 
capabilities, and a lot more, including a sort of sketchpad capability 
where you can sketch out a motif or a harmony or something and call it 
up for copy/paste.  No need to resort to additional files for the ideas 
while working on a score.  The list of new features is at the sibelius 
web-site, and I hope that the MakeMusic management is visiting there 
right now and seeing how a notation company ought to take its users more 
seriously.


I'm not advocating anybody jump ship from Finale to Sibelius, but I 
wanted people on this list to know about the new features, which make 
Sibelius an even stronger competitor against Finale.


My son has used Finale at home and Sibelius at school (admittedly only 
version 3) and he vastly prefers Sibelius.  He's heading off to college 
in the fall as a music-ed major, so he'll be buying Sibelius to use 
there, and you can bet that he will be touting it to fellow music majors 
who might not be as computer literate as he is and also to the students 
he will eventually teach when he graduates.  (where did I go wrong? -- 
actually I didn't, Finale did.)


Sibelius has had linked score/parts since version 4, and they have some 
of the same problems that Finale's version has, but there has been a lot 
less complaining  on the Sibelius list than on the Finale list here.


AND, one of the biggest points in Sibelius' favor that MakeMusic must 
finally address -- version 4 introduced the capability to save current 
version files in earlier formats, and that is continuing with version 5. 
 So there is no need for people to be forced to upgrade, and they can 
still share files and edit things and send them back.  Admittedly a Sib4 
file, with linked score/parts, if saved as version3 will lose the linked 
score/parts capability, but at least it can be shared without the need 
for add-on utilities or forced upgrades.


If MakeMusic doesn't do something fast (such as addressing long-standing 
bugs, taking users' requests for "save as earlier version" capabilities, 
and actually appearing to care about us) it will lose an even larger 
share of the notation software market.





--
David H. Bailey
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[Finale] Postscript Errors

[Lawrence David Eden]

Now who else would I turn to.?

What, exactly, is a postscript error in Finale?
I recently got a rather cryptic message from my Mac when I tried to 
print out a 7 page part.  The first 3 pages were fine...then , I got 
the error message.  Eventually I was able to print the part, but my 
method may have been just dumb luck.   (Fin 2K3)


I ran DATA CHECK on the part...and fixed a few items.

Thanks in advance for the lesson.

Larry
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Re: [Finale] Sibelius 5 announced

[Christopher Smith]

On Jun 8, 2007, at 3:47 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote:

Sibelius 5 has been announced. Looking at the new features briefly,  
I see they have added easy cue notes. Perhaps finally Finale will  
include such, too? I have been asking for it for years.


Huh? In the Plugins menu under Scoring and Arranging you have Add Cue  
Notes, which is just a fewer-featured example of TG Tools Parts>Add  
Cue Notes. What's the difference?


And Sibelius has finally added Scroll View (called Panorama), the  
equivalent of Staff Styles (for instrument changes), made the code  
Universal Binary, allowed advanced page layout, allowed Plugins to be  
undoable in short, it seems for once to be playing catchup with  
Finale, rather than vice-versa!


Christopher

(now, if only Finale had fewer bugs...)


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Re: [Finale] errors in instrument.txt and ensembles.txt

[Phil Daley]

At 6/8/2007 12:06 AM, Mark D Lew wrote:

>If that's true, then any programmer ought to be able to write a
>little utility with a user-friendly interface for editing it.  It
>wouldn't even have to be a plug-in, since it's only manipulating a
>text file.

That is what I was thinking.

I have not seen this file.  But a program to convert it to and from xls is 
all that is needed.


The actual editing would be in Excel.

Phil Daley  < AutoDesk >
http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley



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Re: [Finale] Sibelius 5 has been announced and Finale had better start coming up with significant improvements!

[shirling & neueweise]

Sibelius 5 has been announced


goood!

sibelius web-site, and I hope that the MakeMusic management is 
visiting there right now and seeing how a notation company ought to 
take its users more seriously.


well, just because they have new features doesn't mean they are 
taking its users more seriously.  there have are also been responses 
from the brothers which amount to, "well, we think that not many 
people would really use that, and you can do it with a workaround 
anyways, so..."


Sibelius has had linked score/parts since version 4, and they have 
some of the same problems that Finale's version has, but there has 
been a lot less complaining  on the Sibelius list than on the Finale 
list here.


you know i am very critical of all the anadequacies in many features 
implemented in finale, but as far as i have seen, finale's 
implementation of linked parts is more complete and closer to a 
proper feature than sibelius.  i also get the impression that the 
sibelius list isn't quite as vocal about "issues" as here.


If MakeMusic doesn't do something fast (such as addressing 
long-standing bugs, taking users' requests for "save as earlier 
version" capabilities, and actually appearing to care about us) it 
will lose an even larger share of the notation software market.


i thought they had already learned their lesson with the 2006 
round... that a water bottle cannot by itself quench the thirst of 
its users.


--

shirling & neueweise ... new music publishers
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Re: [Finale] Sibelius 5 has been announced and Finale had better start coming up with significant improvements!

[Christopher Smith]

On Jun 8, 2007, at 7:36 AM, shirling & neueweise wrote:



Sibelius has had linked score/parts since version 4, and they have  
some of the same problems that Finale's version has, but there has  
been a lot less complaining  on the Sibelius list than on the  
Finale list here.


you know i am very critical of all the anadequacies in many  
features implemented in finale, but as far as i have seen, finale's  
implementation of linked parts is more complete and closer to a  
proper feature than sibelius.  i also get the impression that the  
sibelius list isn't quite as vocal about "issues" as here.


Well, isn't it obvious? We have MUCH higher expectations and  
requirements from our software than Sibelius users generally do.  
Would any of us have put up with (reading from Sibelius' site about  
features just now implemented):


Not being able to create cues easily.

Not being able to change instruments in the same staff.

Not being able to insert blank pages.

Not being able to change page margins inside the same document.

not being able to edit bar numbers, page numbers, or rehearsal marks.

Not having the instrument change clef to the correct one when viewing  
in transposed mode (this one has caught many of my students!)


Not having the music transpose when you change key (and we even have  
the option of NOT changing the music)


Okay I'm getting tired, and I don't see the end to this list yet. On  
the plus side for Sib, "Paste as cue" seems to save a mouse click or  
two over running a plugin in Finale, the clipboard for music seems  
moderately interesting, cut-and-paste to Word for musical examples  
certainly saves some fudging around, and the possibilities for  
different sound libraries for playback seems easier than Finale, but  
otherwise I'd rather have the Finale features.


Christopher



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Re: [Finale] Sibelius 5 has been announced and Finale had betterstart coming up with significant improvements!

[Richard Yates]

well, just because they have new features doesn't mean they are taking its 
users more seriously.  there have are also been responses from the 
brothers which amount to, "well, we think that not many people would 
really use that, and you can do it with a workaround anyways, so..."


When I made a concerted attempt to assess Sibelius last year I found the 
biggest difference is that Finale almost always does have a workaround (or 
three) while Sibelius just cannot do things that I need in any way.


Richard 


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Re: [Finale] Sibelius 5 has been announced and Finale had better start coming up with significant improvements!

[Kim Patrick Clow]

shirling & neueweise <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


well, just because they have new features doesn't mean they are
taking its users more seriously.



You know, this is just so off the mark on this point I had to reply.


Three months ago, I found a bug that Sibelius has with Music XML (yah,
I'm of the camp that got feed up with Finale and am migrating to
Sibelius).  Daniel Spreadbury, who works for Sibelius saw my message
on the list about my troubles, asked me for the sample files, and
wrote back within a day that I had indeed found a major bug. After a
lengthy apology and suggested work arounds, he promised me the bug
would be addressed immediately in the newer version of Sibelius.

I don't ever recall anyone posting similiar interactions with
MakeMusic about any of their buggy software, much less correcting it.
Meanwhile, what older version do you have to use with Finale to get
hyphenation to work properly??

Have a great day
Kim Patrick Clow
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Fwd: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

[Phil Daley]

Remember this?


>Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 10:29:04 +0100
>From: Jonathan Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: finale@shsu.edu
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>O.K. for David, Mark & Joel (+ any lurkers) here goes.
>
>Remember this his a list from a little way back (actually, I did post it
>on the list) and so some things might have been improved since then, but
>then Sibelius would never admit there were faults or problems in the
>first place. You'd get a "Why do you want to do that?"
>
>Most of the major cons for me come from the clunky interface even in the
>beautiful OSX environment and the method of pre-emptive input. The app.
>always gives you the impression that it knows better than you, maybe
>that's great for students and the like but it consequently lacks the
>professionalism and versatility of Finale.
>
>BTW, this list is far from exhaustive.
>
>- And before I get barraged with 100's of "can-do-nows" most of these
>points were comparing Sib. to Finale 2001-2 at the time they were both
>on the market together and they "couldn't-do-then", I know because I was
>trying! - And I am/have to upgrade to Sib. v.3 shortly - so I shall
>update the list after I've seen the fixes ;-) .
>
>69 reasons not to buy Sibelius over Finale
>
>1. Brackets won't automatically hide when you 'optimise' a double (or
>more) staved part.
>
>2. System spacing is never even.
>
>3. Just try to move an individual measure number
>
>4. Inability to move ties easily.
>
>5. Poor spacing of Multi Measure rests especially in the same system as
>single measures.
>
>6. Larger files run slow (Mac G4 867mhz/256mb RAM)
>
>7. v1.4 Freezes my computer every time I open it from a start-up. Work
>round is very strange: I have to restart with exts disabled, go to ATM
>prefs., bin all items labelled with OTF, restart and Zap the PRAM, open
>OMS and test studio.then I can finally open Sibelius. There is no
>fix for this apart from buying v2.0, which leads me to believe that v2.0
>is not and upgrade but a bug fix.a very expensive bug fix.
>
>8. Impossible to recover text (in undo history) if you've hit return
>from a text block edit.
>
>9. Very frustrating when you need to move individual systems or staves,
>they all jump around and the page gradually moves higher in the screen
>view until you are stuck with just the lower 4cms of your score in view.
>
>10. Hairpin cresc./dims. vary in opening width depending on their length.
>
>11. Slurs are not like engraver slurs in Finale, they collide and clash
>all over, plus they are really hard to move around over system breaks,
>some you can't move at all.
>
>12. Terrible look to rhythmic notation, for example try two
>consecutive un-beamed 8th notes with a tie.
>
>13. Printing is slower (spreads and spooling scores).
>
>14 Clunky text selection for expressions etc.
>
>15. Procedure for changing (hiding or deleting) measure numbers is far
>too complicated.
>
>16. Page %'s for viewing are fixed and not always what you want for
>optimum screen size, you can't just select a size as with Finale (or
>make it default).
>
>17. Beams and Slurs look really jagged on screen.
>
>18. Flags don't line up with stems on screen view
>
>19. Accidentals in chord clusters are incorrect and often badly spaced.
>
>20. Placement of Articulations (accents, staccs, tenutos, etc.) is far
>too rigid, there is no scope for individual placement or movement.
>
>21. In part extracts of Multi Wind parts you will loose the
>transpositions for each instrument change.
>
>22. Any Finale file containing grace notes imported into Sibelius will
>really mess up. The result will be parts that contain super small empty
>measures where ever there was a corresponding measure in the score
>containing grace notes. Also the MM rest groups start appearing all over
>the pages in very strange places. The only work round is to delete each
>bar in each part and then insert again. This can waste hours, yet
>reading the Sibelius promo you would think it a cinch...think again.
>
>23. Try putting articulations over rhythmic notation.Yuk!
>
>24. So you want to move an Articulation? This is what the Sibelius
>manual says on page 69:
>"In the unlikely event that you want to move an articulation, delete it
>and create a new one as a symbol. Be aware that articulations created as
>symbols have no playback effect."
>
>25. Score expressions (tempo markings etc.) cannot be 'nudged' and must
>be dragged.
>
>26. Settings for part extract need to be altered each time for single or
>double stave parts.
>
>27. If you change font details on a text expression all other instances
>of that word in the score remain unchanged, so you have to change them
>all individually.
>
>28. Flags on voice layers are too short and collide.
>
>29. The broken chord symbol in front of chord clusters is not taken into
>spacing consideration and consequently needs to be dragged around to
>stop it clashing with barlines, every time.
>
>30. Most articulations are not t

Re: [Finale] Sibelius 5 has been announced and Finale had better start coming up with significant improvements!

[shirling & neueweise]

well, just because they have new features doesn't mean they are
taking its users more seriously.


You know, this is just so off the mark on this point I had to reply.


it's not off the mark at all.  i didn't say sibelius wasn't taking 
some users in the case of major bugs seriously; i said that using new 
features so simply as proof of sibelius taking its users seriously 
was not a sound argument.


I don't ever recall anyone posting similiar interactions with 
MakeMusic about any of their buggy software, much less correcting it.


you might want to look through the archives; numerous people have 
posted interactions with MM, and MM has in some cases made a serious 
attempt to resolve the issues.  file overwriting is the one that 
springs immediately to mind as a major bug MM was actively attempting 
to deal with.


Meanwhile, what older version do you have to use with Finale to get 
hyphenation to work properly??


i think you are reading my post as pro-finale, which it wasn't at all.

--

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Re: [Finale] Sibelius 5 has been announced and Finale had better start coming up with significant improvements!

[shirling & neueweise]

Well, isn't it obvious?


what, that the marketing for sib5 is modelled after that of fin04/06? 
yeah.  check out the list of  features on the sib site.  more 
than half are upgrades to anadequacies in the programme or bug fixes, 
and then for good measure, the final "feature" is "Various bugs 
fixed".


but they don't offer a water bottle, so i'm not jumping ship for sib5.

--

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RE: [Finale] Sibelius 5 has been announced and Finale had betterstartcoming up with significant improvements!

[Owain Sutton]

> 
> > well, just because they have new features doesn't mean they 
> are taking 
> > its
> > users more seriously.  there have are also been responses from the 
> > brothers which amount to, "well, we think that not many 
> people would 
> > really use that, and you can do it with a workaround anyways, so..."
> 
> When I made a concerted attempt to assess Sibelius last year 
> I found the 
> biggest difference is that Finale almost always does have a 
> workaround (or 
> three) while Sibelius just cannot do things that I need in any way.
> 
> Richard 
> 


This is similar to the experience of a number of people I know (or know
of) who have fairly complex requirements.  When I'm asked advice about
choosing software, I sum up the differences as 'Sibelius does 95% of
things better or more easily, but to do the other 5% at all you need
Finale'.  Trivial, I know (and maybe it's 99%, or 80%, I don't know),
but for most people, the best option is Sibelius.

Owain


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RE: [Finale] Sibelius 5 has been announced ...

[shirling & neueweise]

if you only like humour that is good and clean, don't bother clicking here:


--

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Re: [Finale] errors in instrument.txt and ensembles.txt

[David W. Fenton]

On 8 Jun 2007 at 7:30, Phil Daley wrote:

> At 6/8/2007 12:06 AM, Mark D Lew wrote:
> 
>  >If that's true, then any programmer ought to be able to write a
>  >little utility with a user-friendly interface for editing it.  It
>  >wouldn't even have to be a plug-in, since it's only manipulating a
>  >text file.
> 
> That is what I was thinking.
> 
> I have not seen this file.  But a program to convert it to and from
> xls is all that is needed.
> 
> The actual editing would be in Excel.

That has got to be the most idiotic thing I've ever seen you propose 
on this list.

First off, Excel can edit a text file without conversion, and save it 
as text, so there isn't any conversion needed in order for Excel to 
edit the file.

Secondly, if you'd taken any time to actually try what you're 
proposing, you'd see immediately that the layout of the file is 
inappropriate for Excel:

  1. it uses unequal numbers of tabs to separate key/value pairs 
(sometimes one, sometimes two), which means Excel can't figure out 
which columns belong where.

  2. it uses = after the tab so that Excel thinks what comes after is 
supposed to be a formula.

Third, this doesn't begin to address the actual problem, which is the 
danger of editing the data manually in a way that invalidates the 
data (e.g., by inputting the characters wrongly).

The need is for a user interface that allows the user to edit the 
data without being able to screw up the layout of the file. And that 
can only come from a custom program that knows the rules for the 
layout of the file. That should be created by the makers of Finale or 
by a plugin developer.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com
David Fenton Associates   http://dfenton.com/DFA/

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Re: [Finale] Sibelius 5 has been announced and Finale had better start coming up with significant improvements!

[David W. Fenton]

On 8 Jun 2007 at 8:13, Christopher Smith wrote:

> the clipboard for music seems  
> moderately interesting, 

Seems pretty easy to implement, though I'm not sure why. I usually 
just use scratch staves within the same file.

> cut-and-paste to Word for musical examples 
> certainly saves some fudging around, 

If the graphic export in Finale supported something other than TIFF 
for bitmapped export, it would be a lot easier. Sibelius added PNG 
export, and if Finale added that, it would then be *very* easy to 
implement cut and paste of graphics into other apps. 

> and the possibilities for 
> different sound libraries for playback seems easier than Finale, 

It doesn't say, though, if you can mix GPO with other synthesizers.



-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com
David Fenton Associates   http://dfenton.com/DFA/

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Re: [Finale] Sibelius 5 has been announced and Finale had better start coming up with significant improvements!

[David W. Fenton]

On 8 Jun 2007 at 8:13, Christopher Smith wrote:

> On  
> the plus side for Sib, "Paste as cue" seems to save a mouse click or 
> two over running a plugin in Finale

Reading between the lines of other features that impinge on cues 
notes, it seems like it's implemented in a way that works with linked 
parts. That's much bigger than just saving a mouse click.

-- 
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David Fenton Associates   http://dfenton.com/DFA/

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Re: [Finale] Sibelius 5 has been announced and Finale had better start coming up with significant improvements!

[David W. Fenton]

On 8 Jun 2007 at 8:38, Kim Patrick Clow wrote:

> Three months ago, I found a bug that Sibelius has with Music XML (yah,
> I'm of the camp that got feed up with Finale and am migrating to
> Sibelius).  Daniel Spreadbury, who works for Sibelius saw my message
> on the list about my troubles, asked me for the sample files, and
> wrote back within a day that I had indeed found a major bug. After a
> lengthy apology and suggested work arounds, he promised me the bug
> would be addressed immediately in the newer version of Sibelius.

In my opinion, Daniel Spreadbury is Sibelius's greatest asset. When 
Sibelius 4 came out, he and I had a long correspondence about a 
number of issues. He takes Finale quite seriously (and knows Finale 
*very* well), and was completely open and honest in acknowledging 
where Finale was superior to Sibelius.

It seems to me like this release of Sibelius is designed as a Finale-
killer, i.e., that its feature set is mostly designed to rectify a 
large number of areas where Sibelius was a hostile environment for 
Finale users.

Now, the only principle of successful market share enhancement that 
they need to incorporate is ease of saving Sibelius files back to 
Finale. That's the secret -- if you can switch without feeling locked 
in, then there is no downside to trying it out. With Dolet, that's 
getting closer and closer to reality, it seems to me.

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Re: [Finale] OT trombones

[John Howell]

At 8:23 PM -0400 6/7/07, Raymond Horton wrote:
The naming of the F as a "contrabass" trombone 
has to do with in what role it is meant to 
function, not just the key.


Very clear and welcome explanation.  Thanks, Ray!

There is more to assigning these voice part names than just key.  
Otherwise Urbie Green and I play the same instrument.


I thought his had valves!!

Hey, I've got it!  This low F trombone is about 
an octave below an alto trombone:


Let's call it a "CONTRA-ALTO TROMBONE!"


LOL  Touchée!!  We've now come full circle!

John

(LOL some more!)


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Re: [Finale] OT clarinets

[John Howell]

At 9:06 PM -0700 6/7/07, Mark D Lew wrote:


Hmm, in my mind "haut-contre" and "countertenor" are not the same 
thing at all.


Quite right.  The former is a voice which simply lies higher than the 
average tenor.  I've had a couple of students with that kind of 
voice, and judging by the sound I've always assumed that Russell 
Oberlin was an haut-contre.  The latter is a highly developed 
falsetto.  But I didn't think I needed to go into that much detail.


Aside from the haut-contre repertoire in French baroque opera, a 
haut-contre voice is what I want to hear for the high tenor solo in 
Carmina burana.


Interesting.  When we did it the soloist was a baritone, but with a 
good and flexible falsetto.


John


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Re: [Finale] Sibelius 5 has been announced and Finale had better start coming up with significant improvements!

[Eric Dannewitz]

Eh, the only thing that looks "NEW" is the Idea thing. The other 
stuff...who cares? They have a Scroll View. Wow. Cool. Finally. And 
a new hand font. Wooo. And GPO sounds. Oooo.


Look, if you want to go, go. Until Sibelius can open my Finale files 
without MusicXML, I'm staying with Finale. I don't feel like changing 
thousands of files into it. Plus, Finale does everything I want it to do 
and I am awaiting some excellent improvements.


AND, I do use the SmartMusic program, and Sibelius cannot create files 
for that. That is a big minus in my book. I kind of have a love/hate 
relationship with SmartMusic, but generally, it is a great program with 
some annoying bugs.


dhbailey wrote:
Sibelius 5 has been announced, and final barrier to many Finale users 
has fallen.  They now have their version of  scroll-view, called 
Panorama.


For many of us, that has been a major sticking point in converting our 
workflow to Sibelius, and with this new release, scheduled to ship at 
the end of this month, there may be a new mass-exodus from Finale to 
Sibelius.


There are other enhancements, including Kontakt2 with a whole new bank 
of sounds which has been built from several soundbanks including GPO, 
so that there will apparently be a more complete instrument list than 
GPO-Finale has, included in the program.  For the past year, 
GPO-Sibelius was an extra-cost add-on.  There are advanced page layout 
capabilities, and a lot more, including a sort of sketchpad capability 
where you can sketch out a motif or a harmony or something and call it 
up for copy/paste.  No need to resort to additional files for the 
ideas while working on a score.  The list of new features is at the 
sibelius web-site, and I hope that the MakeMusic management is 
visiting there right now and seeing how a notation company ought to 
take its users more seriously.


I'm not advocating anybody jump ship from Finale to Sibelius, but I 
wanted people on this list to know about the new features, which make 
Sibelius an even stronger competitor against Finale.


My son has used Finale at home and Sibelius at school (admittedly only 
version 3) and he vastly prefers Sibelius.  He's heading off to 
college in the fall as a music-ed major, so he'll be buying Sibelius 
to use there, and you can bet that he will be touting it to fellow 
music majors who might not be as computer literate as he is and also 
to the students he will eventually teach when he graduates.  (where 
did I go wrong? -- actually I didn't, Finale did.)


Sibelius has had linked score/parts since version 4, and they have 
some of the same problems that Finale's version has, but there has 
been a lot less complaining  on the Sibelius list than on the Finale 
list here.


AND, one of the biggest points in Sibelius' favor that MakeMusic must 
finally address -- version 4 introduced the capability to save current 
version files in earlier formats, and that is continuing with version 
5.  So there is no need for people to be forced to upgrade, and they 
can still share files and edit things and send them back.  Admittedly 
a Sib4 file, with linked score/parts, if saved as version3 will lose 
the linked score/parts capability, but at least it can be shared 
without the need for add-on utilities or forced upgrades.


If MakeMusic doesn't do something fast (such as addressing 
long-standing bugs, taking users' requests for "save as earlier 
version" capabilities, and actually appearing to care about us) it 
will lose an even larger share of the notation software market.







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Re: [Finale] OT now trumpets

[John Howell]

At 7:30 PM -0700 6/7/07, Harold Owen wrote:

Zelenka certainly wrote wonderful parts for bassoon in his trio sonatas.
Bach wrote a very active bassoon part for Cantata 150 (if my memory 
serves) that goes down to low A.


If that's one of the Weimar catatas (like 106), the transposition 
decided on by the BG editors might be wrong.  Or at least a poor 
choice.  In fact one of the things that gave away the problem was the 
problem with the recorders in 106 having to be in Eb, because the BG 
edition is in Eb rather than F.  I think the bassoon might have gone 
down to a low G as well, in that key.


It was a long time ago that I studied this, so I may recall incorrectly.

John


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[Finale] Instrument/Ensemble List errors

[Henry E. Howey]

As far as the setup goes, these are text files in the VST and COMPONENTS
folders. Correcting the errors and adding instruments needs to be
addressed as a plugin, a suggestion I made several weeks ago.

BTW, the sopranino sax description is really messed up as well, e.g., it's
got a bass clef;-(


Henry Howey
Professor of Music
  Sam Houston State University
  Box 2208
  Huntsville, TX  77341
  (936) 294-1364
  http://www.shsu.edu/music/faculty/howey.php
  Owner of FINALE Discussion List
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Re: [Finale] Sibelius 5 announced

[Eric Dannewitz]

Oh wow, they have a SCROLL VIEW now. Wow. Amazing. Those guys are great.

*Yawn*

The ideas hub is an interesting idea though..

Johannes Gebauer wrote:
Sibelius 5 has been announced. Looking at the new features briefly, I 
see they have added easy cue notes. Perhaps finally Finale will 
include such, too? I have been asking for it for years.


Johannes


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Re: [Finale] Sibelius 5 has been announced and Finale had better start coming up with significant improvements!

[dhbailey]

David W. Fenton wrote:

On 8 Jun 2007 at 8:13, Christopher Smith wrote:

the clipboard for music seems  
moderately interesting, 


Seems pretty easy to implement, though I'm not sure why. I usually 
just use scratch staves within the same file.


cut-and-paste to Word for musical examples 
certainly saves some fudging around, 


If the graphic export in Finale supported something other than TIFF 
for bitmapped export, it would be a lot easier. Sibelius added PNG 
export, and if Finale added that, it would then be *very* easy to 
implement cut and paste of graphics into other apps. 

and the possibilities for 
different sound libraries for playback seems easier than Finale, 


It doesn't say, though, if you can mix GPO with other synthesizers.





Using the Mixer window you can assign any of the installed devices to 
any staff, so the answer is Yes you can use the Kontakt player for some 
staves and any other midi device for other staves.  Sib4 doesn't come 
with a soundfont engine the way that Finale does, but you can certainly 
install softsynths of your own and use a virtual midi device such as 
Midi-yoke to run the midi output for whichever staves through midiyoke 
into any softsynth you want.


It's a much more robust midi implementation than Finale's in that regard.

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Re: [Finale] Instrument/Ensemble List errors

[dhbailey]

Henry E. Howey wrote:

As far as the setup goes, these are text files in the VST and COMPONENTS
folders. Correcting the errors and adding instruments needs to be
addressed as a plugin, a suggestion I made several weeks ago.

BTW, the sopranino sax description is really messed up as well, e.g., it's
got a bass clef;-(



Well anybody who dares to play a sopranino saxophone ought to be 
assigned notes which are well out of range.  The nerve of them!  ;-)


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Re: [Finale] Sibelius 5 has been announced and Finale had better start coming up with significant improvements!

[Aaron Sherber]

At 12:20 PM 6/8/2007, David W. Fenton wrote:
>On 8 Jun 2007 at 8:13, Christopher Smith wrote:
>
>> On
>> the plus side for Sib, "Paste as cue" seems to save a mouse click or
>> two over running a plugin in Finale
>
>Reading between the lines of other features that impinge on cues
>notes, it seems like it's implemented in a way that works with linked
>parts. That's much bigger than just saving a mouse click.

It does look like it's the eqiuivalent of Fin2007's Add Cue Notes and 
then apply the Blank Notation with Rests staff style, all in one pass.


(Though frankly, the limitations of this staff style in Finale are 
one of the reasons I still do a separate parts score in Fin2007.)


Aaron.

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Re: [Finale] Sibelius 5 announced

[dhbailey]

Eric Dannewitz wrote:

Oh wow, they have a SCROLL VIEW now. Wow. Amazing. Those guys are great.



Well it may be a yawn to you, but it is certainly attracting this 
finale-user's interest!  And other folks' as well.


Especially in view of how many of the recent Finale upgrades have been 
mirrors of the previous Sibelius release (incorporating Kontakt player 
was Sibelius first, linked score/parts was Sibelius first).


And that scroll-view, as David Fenton says, is addressing a major issue 
which holds may Finale users back from trying Sibelius.


Finale had better sit up and take notice and not just think they can do 
whatever they feel like.


Oh yes, Sibelius had textured paper LONG before Finale did.  :-)

So with Finale having played catch-up to this young whippersnapper of a 
program for the past few years, if Sibelius can resolve some Finale 
users' final objections (I wonder if the page-layout enhancements in 
Sib5 will address some of the supposed "for that final 5% you need 
Finale" issues), MakeMusic will need to do a lot to attract and keep new 
users and long-time users.


Such as making tech-support easier and friendlier for starters.

Failure to address long-standing bugs is another symbol of a "we don't 
have to care, we're the leaders" mentality which will have the Sibelius 
tortoise crossing the finish line way ahead of the Finale hare.


And while Finale may have jumped on the file-overwrite issue quickly, it 
has certainly dropped the ball on the hyphens issue and I have yet to 
see any fix coming for the speedy-entry re-spell notes bug.


Oh, yeah, I forgot, we have to pay for any major fixes over the freebie 
limit of 1, so we'll see those issues addressed in the next upgrade 
which we'll be expected to pay for, even though they were nonexistent in 
the previous upgrade which we paid for.


Funny how business works -- I coulda sworn that such things used to 
fixed for free and with an apology!


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Re: [Finale] OT trombones

[Christopher Smith]

On Jun 8, 2007, at 1:17 PM, John Howell wrote:


At 8:23 PM -0400 6/7/07, Raymond Horton wrote:

There is more to assigning these voice part names than just key.   
Otherwise Urbie Green and I play the same instrument.


I thought his had valves!!



Heh, heh! No, he only played so clean and smooth that it SOUNDED like  
he had valves!


An expert slide trombone player can actually play SMOOTHER than a  
valve trombonist. It's has something to do with not breaking the air  
stream...



Christopher


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Re: [Finale] Sibelius 5 has been announced and Finale had better start coming up with significant improvements!

[David W. Fenton]

On 8 Jun 2007 at 15:57, dhbailey wrote:

> Using the Mixer window you can assign any of the installed devices to
> any staff, so the answer is Yes you can use the Kontakt player for
> some staves and any other midi device for other staves.  Sib4 doesn't
> come with a soundfont engine the way that Finale does, but you can
> certainly install softsynths of your own and use a virtual midi device
> such as Midi-yoke to run the midi output for whichever staves through
> midiyoke into any softsynth you want.

What about hardware MIDI devices?

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Re: [Finale] Sibelius 5 announced

[Christopher Smith]

On Jun 8, 2007, at 4:06 PM, dhbailey wrote:



Such as making tech-support easier and friendlier for starters.


I don't know when you emailed tech support last, but they changed  
things a few months ago. It's through email now, and you don't have  
to give your mother's maiden name every time you want to ask a  
question. Quite a bit better than the labyrinth net interface they  
had before.


Sorry the guys they have working it don't seem to be quite 100 watts,  
though. And they will NEVER admit anything is wrong with the program!  
Just say, "Sorry, that's a bug. We know about it and will try to fix  
it in the next update." and we will calm down a lot.


Christopher


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[Finale] Graphic tool

[Alberto Guzmán Naranjo]

I need help! When in graphic export selection: how tu set the default Tiff
resolution in 600 dpi. The program comes with 300 dpi.

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Re: [Finale] OT trombones

[dhbailey]

Christopher Smith wrote:


On Jun 8, 2007, at 1:17 PM, John Howell wrote:


At 8:23 PM -0400 6/7/07, Raymond Horton wrote:

There is more to assigning these voice part names than just key.  
Otherwise Urbie Green and I play the same instrument.


I thought his had valves!!



Heh, heh! No, he only played so clean and smooth that it SOUNDED like he 
had valves!


An expert slide trombone player can actually play SMOOTHER than a valve 
trombonist. It's has something to do with not breaking the air stream...




I think it also has something to do with how much harder the slide 
trombonist has to work to develop that smooth legato.  It's not easy at 
all, and takes a long time and many hours of daily practice to finally 
get that beautiful slur on a slide trombone.


As opposed to a valved-instrument player who has the technique of 
slurring mastered in one 4-minute explanation and playing of a few 
slurred exercises.




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Re: [Finale] Sibelius 5 announced

[shirling & neueweise]

Oh wow, they have a SCROLL VIEW now. Wow. Amazing. Those guys are great.


from what i have seen (and following discussions with a sib 
power-user colleague) i think the value of this release is that they 
have actually -- seemingly -- addressed a number of long-standing 
issues with sibelius.   it seems to be a fairly major "improvement 
version".


i find this quite valuable actually, and can only dream of the year 
when finale does something similar, stopping the whole "bulldoze 
forward and hope we don't fuck anything up and if we do, well maybe 
we'll deal with it sometime, maybe we won't" approach to concentrate 
on fixing the many loong-standing and newly introduced bugs, 
finishing the half-ass jobs they started, and making those things 
that have the potential to be incredibly powerful tools into in fact 
very powerful tools.


--

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Re: [Finale] Sibelius 5 has been announced and Finale had better start coming up with significant improvements!

[dhbailey]

David W. Fenton wrote:

On 8 Jun 2007 at 15:57, dhbailey wrote:


Using the Mixer window you can assign any of the installed devices to
any staff, so the answer is Yes you can use the Kontakt player for
some staves and any other midi device for other staves.  Sib4 doesn't
come with a soundfont engine the way that Finale does, but you can
certainly install softsynths of your own and use a virtual midi device
such as Midi-yoke to run the midi output for whichever staves through
midiyoke into any softsynth you want.


What about hardware MIDI devices?



Yes, any midi device which shows up can be assigned to any staff.

So you could have an external module attached via Audigy Midi Out 1, you 
could have another attached via Audigy Midi Out 2, as well as using the 
Kontakt player and also using virtual midi connections such as midi-yoke.


Any devices which are enabled (have the Use column entry in Playback and 
Input Devices dialog set to "yes" are possible to be used for Sibelius 
playback.


Now getting all those different devices to balance properly or to record 
from them is a different problem, but the playback sounds can be 
directed to any midi device, hardware or software, which shows up in the 
Playback and Input Devices dialog and is set to "yes."


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Re: [Finale] Sibelius 5 announced

[dhbailey]

Christopher Smith wrote:


On Jun 8, 2007, at 4:06 PM, dhbailey wrote:



Such as making tech-support easier and friendlier for starters.


I don't know when you emailed tech support last, but they changed things 
a few months ago. It's through email now, and you don't have to give 
your mother's maiden name every time you want to ask a question. Quite a 
bit better than the labyrinth net interface they had before.


Sorry the guys they have working it don't seem to be quite 100 watts, 
though. And they will NEVER admit anything is wrong with the program! 
Just say, "Sorry, that's a bug. We know about it and will try to fix it 
in the next update." and we will calm down a lot.




Well, I'm glad they've changed that - I haven't needed finale tech 
support in recent months.


Too bad they can't get the human response any better.

Sibelius says that all the time, when it's true, and nobody on the 
Sibelius list ever gets angry over the tech support issues.


Wish I could say the same for the Finale list here.


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Re: [Finale] Graphic tool

[shirling & neueweise]

I need help! When in graphic export selection: how tu set the default Tiff
resolution in 600 dpi. The program comes with 300 dpi.


(i seem to remember offhand that) when you set it to 600 or 1200 or 
whatever, it keeps the setting until you quite the programme.


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Re: [Finale] Graphic tool

[dhbailey]

Alberto Guzmán Naranjo wrote:

I need help! When in graphic export selection: how tu set the default Tiff
resolution in 600 dpi. The program comes with 300 dpi.



I don't think there is a way to change this default.  But it's easy 
enough to change it when you're exporting a graphic.


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Re: [Finale] Sibelius 5 announced

[Eric Dannewitz]

While I would like to have a bugless program, I don't think that is 
really likely from any software company. Ideally, yeah, it would be 
great if they could just go through and fix a lot of outstanding issues. 
But, they also need to keep adding features.so there is a balance.


But, I have never had any issues with bugs in Finale 2007. Probably a 
lot of people haven't. In the next release, if they can hone in the 
linked parts and maybe squash a couple of bugs, andwho 
knows.I'll be happy.


But, for how many years did Sibelius NOT do a scroll view? That was my 
major decision never to go to Sibelius full time. I can't stand the page 
thing it has.


shirling & neueweise wrote:



Oh wow, they have a SCROLL VIEW now. Wow. Amazing. Those guys are great.


from what i have seen (and following discussions with a sib power-user 
colleague) i think the value of this release is that they have 
actually -- seemingly -- addressed a number of long-standing issues 
with sibelius.   it seems to be a fairly major "improvement version".


i find this quite valuable actually, and can only dream of the year 
when finale does something similar, stopping the whole "bulldoze 
forward and hope we don't fuck anything up and if we do, well maybe 
we'll deal with it sometime, maybe we won't" approach to concentrate 
on fixing the many loong-standing and newly introduced bugs, 
finishing the half-ass jobs they started, and making those things that 
have the potential to be incredibly powerful tools into in fact very 
powerful tools.




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Re: [Finale] Sibelius 5 has been announced and Finale had better start coming up with significant improvements!

[Eric Dannewitz]

David W. Fenton wrote:

On 8 Jun 2007 at 8:13, Christopher Smith wrote:

  
the clipboard for music seems  
moderately interesting, 



Seems pretty easy to implement, though I'm not sure why. I usually 
just use scratch staves within the same file.


  
Yeah, but this looks like a repository available to all scores you are 
working on. Kind of like a Garageband for musical scores (like, you can 
pick a lick and put it in)


and the possibilities for 
different sound libraries for playback seems easier than Finale, 



It doesn't say, though, if you can mix GPO with other synthesizers.

  
Yeah. Great point. Unless I were to go purchase a real high end machine, 
I couldn't do a mockup of my scores using just GPO..sadly..


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Re: [Finale] Sibelius 5 announced

[shirling & neueweise]

While I would like to have a bugless program, I don't think that is 
really likely from any software company.


my point was simply that sib5 might not have a "major" new feature 
but it seems to be a version with many very important improvements; 
i.e. they actually **did** resolve a lot of outstanding issues and 
**have** in fact fixed many bugs.


in other words, this is an upgrade that seems well worth the $ for 
any sib user, if everything works as it shoud and no new bugs are 
introduced.


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Re: [Finale] Sibelius 5 has been announced and Finale had better start coming up with significant improvements!

[David W. Fenton]

On 8 Jun 2007 at 14:08, Eric Dannewitz wrote:

> David W. Fenton wrote:
> > On 8 Jun 2007 at 8:13, Christopher Smith wrote:
> >   
> >> the clipboard for music seems  
> >> moderately interesting, 
> >
> > Seems pretty easy to implement, though I'm not sure why. I usually
> > just use scratch staves within the same file.
>
> Yeah, but this looks like a repository available to all scores you are
> working on. Kind of like a Garageband for musical scores (like, you
> can pick a lick and put it in)

Well, it's easy enough to keep a file as a scratch pad, so I just 
don't see this as too big of a deal. You could store the data in a 
Finale file and build an interface that presents it just like the 
Sibelius implementation. In other words, It doesn't look like that 
big of a deal to me -- it's a fit-and-finish feature, not a real 
productivity-enhancer.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com
David Fenton Associates   http://dfenton.com/DFA/

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Re: [Finale] Sibelius 5 announced

[Christopher Smith]

On Jun 8, 2007, at 4:50 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote:



But, I have never had any issues with bugs in Finale 2007. Probably  
a lot of people haven't.


Holy moley! Are you kidding?

I haven't had so many problems with bugs EVER in Finale as I do in  
2007, and this is going back to 3.2!


Maybe it's just the kind of things I do with the program that are  
different than what you do, but I am constantly having to work around  
things that just don't do what they are supposed to. And new things  
keep cropping up every day (like this stupid BIAB autoharmoniser,  
that I haven't even looked at since I first checked it out how many  
versions ago, and now I could use it and it didn't work. Apparently I  
have to do a reinstall of Finale, which didn't go well the first  
time, and I don't expect it to go well this time either.)


And libraries don't load (I get error messages), and I keep getting  
files corrupted so that I can't insert measures, and articulations  
still seem to bounce around, and expressions don't place themselves  
correctly on reduced staves, and lyric hyphens, and the enharmonic  
flip, and explode music, and chord symbols STILL don't transpose with  
chromatic staff transposition, and shape expressions with imported  
graphics have handles that jump around even greater distances and  
more unpredictably than the previous buggy version, and repeat tool  
signs for coda and DS still jump around randomly whenever they are  
horizontally placed outside the barline after I don't how many  
versions, and repeat brackets are way too long and not selectable in  
parts when they are over a multimeasure rest, and "do not include in  
measure numbering" screws up all kinds of things and so is useless,  
and staff styles don't copy properly, and they don't transfer to the  
parts properly without a workaround, and copying barline styles does  
not copy the state of the checked box "break multimeasure rest" so  
you could have a double bar that you THINK breaks a rest, but doesn't  
really, and systems added to an old file don't necessarily have the  
same staff height as the other systems and don't respond to the zoom  
tool (took me a while to find the way around THAT one!), and my old  
fonts don't work the same way, and I keep getting empty measures of  
slashes not spacing correctly because of extraneous beat charts  
(thanks TG Tools for helping me sort that one out) and so many  
plugins don't work on linked parts...


Ah, I'm getting tired again...

Christopher


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[Finale] playback using MIDI

[Derek Kane]

Just a quick question.

I tried to play a finale file with the midi sounds only, and it wouldn't
play.
I then was able to change the midi settings and have it play on GPO.

Is there a way to make finale play midi sounds only?  This would be very
helpful.

Thanks in advance.

Derek

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Re: [Finale] OT carmina burana (was OT clarinets)

[Mark D Lew]

On Jun 8, 2007, at 10:42 AM, John Howell wrote:

Interesting.  When we did it the soloist was a baritone, but with a  
good and flexible falsetto.


Are we talking about the same solo?  I was referring to "Olim lacus  
colueram", which is generally assigned to the tenor soloist.  I was  
saying I like the haut-contre sound for that tenor solo, rather than  
just a traditional tenor who can handle the high range.


All the rest of the male solos are usually given to the baritone, who  
will need to be versatile in order to do them all well. (The same  
goes for the soprano. I have yet to hear a soloist who is good on  
both "In trutina" AND the "Dulcissime".)


It sounds like you might be thinking of "Dies, nox et omnia", which  
is written for the baritone but has extended flouishes way up above  
the staff.  I've heard baritones sing those in falsetto, but I like  
it best with the rare sort of baritone who can move seamlessly into a  
mixed tone up there.  (In contrast, "Estuans interius" also goes very  
high, but for that one I like to hear a big booming Verdi baritone  
sound.)


mdl
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Re: [Finale] Sibelius 5 announced

[Johannes Gebauer]

On 08.06.2007 dhbailey wrote:

Eric Dannewitz wrote:

Oh wow, they have a SCROLL VIEW now. Wow. Amazing. Those guys are great.



Well it may be a yawn to you, but it is certainly attracting this finale-user's 
interest!  And other folks' as well.


[snip]

Thanks David, for spelling out what I was thinking, too.

Johannes
--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de

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Re: [Finale] Sibelius 5 has been announced and Finale had better start coming up with significant improvements!

[Johannes Gebauer]

On 08.06.2007 Aaron Sherber wrote:

It does look like it's the eqiuivalent of Fin2007's Add Cue Notes and then 
apply the Blank Notation with Rests staff style, all in one pass.

(Though frankly, the limitations of this staff style in Finale are one of the 
reasons I still do a separate parts score in Fin2007.)


Well, the way they advertise, not only will it work in linked parts 
(which, frankly, isn't the case in Finale, I have lost a lot of hair on 
this, and as soon as things get more complex there is simply no other 
option than to do a separate parts score), it also seems a lot easier 
than any of the plugin attempts in Finale, which I hate. Cue notes is 
what takes me most time in Finale.


Johannes
--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de

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RE: [Finale] Sibelius 5 has been announced and Finalehad better start coming up with significant improvements!

[Owain Sutton]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David W. Fenton
> Sent: 08 June 2007 22:19
> To: finale@shsu.edu
> Subject: Re: [Finale] Sibelius 5 has been announced and 
> Finalehad better start coming up with significant improvements!
> 
> 
> On 8 Jun 2007 at 14:08, Eric Dannewitz wrote:
> 
> > David W. Fenton wrote:
> > > On 8 Jun 2007 at 8:13, Christopher Smith wrote:
> > >   
> > >> the clipboard for music seems
> > >> moderately interesting, 
> > >
> > > Seems pretty easy to implement, though I'm not sure why. 
> I usually 
> > > just use scratch staves within the same file.
> >
> > Yeah, but this looks like a repository available to all 
> scores you are 
> > working on. Kind of like a Garageband for musical scores (like, you 
> > can pick a lick and put it in)
> 
> Well, it's easy enough to keep a file as a scratch pad, so I just 
> don't see this as too big of a deal. You could store the data in a 
> Finale file and build an interface that presents it just like the 
> Sibelius implementation. In other words, It doesn't look like that 
> big of a deal to me -- it's a fit-and-finish feature, not a real 
> productivity-enhancer.
> 
> -- 
> David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com
> David Fenton Associates   http://dfenton.com/DFA/
> 



It's another move with a big focus on the education market, as far as I
can see.  I immediately saw its potential to draw pupils away from the
page in front of them, and to focus on half-a-dozen ideas which they're
supposedly using.  Or in more competent cases, simply keeping half of a
conversation accessible when the bell rings, or another pupil
interrupts, or whatever.   Setting up a separate file for this kind of
thing just isn't an option.


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RE: [Finale] playback using MIDI

[Williams, Jim]

Have you UNCHECKED:
 MIDI>play Finale Through Native Instruments VST??
What is your output device in the MIDI setup?
Jim



From: Derek Kane
Sent: Fri 08-Jun-07 18:36
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: [Finale] playback using MIDI


Just a quick question.

I tried to play a finale file with the midi sounds only, and it wouldn't
play.
I then was able to change the midi settings and have it play on GPO.

Is there a way to make finale play midi sounds only?  This would be very
helpful.

Thanks in advance.

Derek

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Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
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3:15 PM
 

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Re: [Finale] Graphic tool

[Alberto Guzmán Naranjo]

Of course I know it's easy to change the setting each time I export a
graphic; but I have a lot of graphics in order to edit a music book. The
program don't keeps the settings.

2007/6/8, dhbailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


Alberto Guzmán Naranjo wrote:
> I need help! When in graphic export selection: how tu set the default
Tiff
> resolution in 600 dpi. The program comes with 300 dpi.
>

I don't think there is a way to change this default.  But it's easy
enough to change it when you're exporting a graphic.

--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--
Alberto Guzmán Naranjo
Director Escuela de Música FAI - UV
Director Asociado Orquesta Filarmónica del Valle

"Historia Crítica de las Teorías de la Música y los modelos de Análisis
Musical"
http://escuelademusica.univalle.edu.co/
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Re: [Finale] Graphic tool

[David W. Fenton]

On 8 Jun 2007 at 18:29, Alberto Guzmán Naranjo wrote:

> Of course I know it's easy to change the setting each time I export a
> graphic; but I have a lot of graphics in order to edit a music book.
> The program don't keeps the settings.

I'm working with an old version (2003), but as long as I don't close 
Finale, it retains the settings. So it seems that even if you have 
multiple files to create graphics from, you would just open them 
successively in the same instance of Finale.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com
David Fenton Associates   http://dfenton.com/DFA/


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Re: [Finale] Sibelius 5 announced

[Eric Dannewitz]

Um, no. If I cannot easily import all my exisiting stuff into Sibelius, 
that is a deal breaker. MusicXML doesn't cut it. I would want/need 
something that opens it and I don't have to futz with it.


Yeah, scroll view is a great feature which I need and use all the time. 
It's great Sibelius finally decided to put it in. And its great that 
they, after about a year after Finale did it, make an application that 
is Universal Binary on Mac. All great selling points no doubt.


Johannes Gebauer wrote:

On 08.06.2007 dhbailey wrote:

Eric Dannewitz wrote:
Oh wow, they have a SCROLL VIEW now. Wow. Amazing. Those guys are 
great.




Well it may be a yawn to you, but it is certainly attracting this 
finale-user's interest!  And other folks' as well.


[snip]

Thanks David, for spelling out what I was thinking, too.

Johannes


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Re: [Finale] OT carmina burana (was OT clarinets)

[Aaron Rabushka]

So maybe that's why Jochum once recorded CB with two baritones (or maybe it
was a baritone and a bass).

Aaron J. Rabushka
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://users.waymark.net/arabushk
- Original Message - 
From: "Mark D Lew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Finale] OT carmina burana (was OT clarinets)


> On Jun 8, 2007, at 10:42 AM, John Howell wrote:
>
> > Interesting.  When we did it the soloist was a baritone, but with a
> > good and flexible falsetto.
>
> Are we talking about the same solo?  I was referring to "Olim lacus
> colueram", which is generally assigned to the tenor soloist.  I was
> saying I like the haut-contre sound for that tenor solo, rather than
> just a traditional tenor who can handle the high range.
>
> All the rest of the male solos are usually given to the baritone, who
> will need to be versatile in order to do them all well. (The same
> goes for the soprano. I have yet to hear a soloist who is good on
> both "In trutina" AND the "Dulcissime".)
>
> It sounds like you might be thinking of "Dies, nox et omnia", which
> is written for the baritone but has extended flouishes way up above
> the staff.  I've heard baritones sing those in falsetto, but I like
> it best with the rare sort of baritone who can move seamlessly into a
> mixed tone up there.  (In contrast, "Estuans interius" also goes very
> high, but for that one I like to hear a big booming Verdi baritone
> sound.)
>
> mdl
> ___
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>

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RE: [Finale] Sibelius 5 has been announced ...

[keith helgesen]

Humour?

K in OZ

Keith Helgesen.
Ph: (02) 62910787. 
Mob 0417-042171

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
shirling & neueweise
Sent: Saturday, 9 June 2007 12:08 AM
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: RE: [Finale] Sibelius 5 has been announced ...


if you only like humour that is good and clean, don't bother clicking here:


-- 

shirling & neueweise ... new music publishers
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com
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Re: [Finale] Sibelius 5 announced

[John Howell]

At 4:06 PM -0400 6/8/07, dhbailey wrote:

Eric Dannewitz wrote:

Oh wow, they have a SCROLL VIEW now. Wow. Amazing. Those guys are great.



Well it may be a yawn to you, but it is certainly attracting this 
finale-user's interest!  And other folks' as well.


Especially in view of how many of the recent Finale upgrades have 
been mirrors of the previous Sibelius release (incorporating Kontakt 
player was Sibelius first, linked score/parts was Sibelius first).


Actually Mosaic had linked score/parts from the very beginning, c. 
1992.  Only took 12 or 14 years for BOTH Finale and Sibelius to catch 
up!!  Not that there weren't a ton of things Mosaic could NOT do, but 
one thing it COULD do was to give professional results with the 
defaults right out of the box.


John


--
John & Susie Howell
Virginia Tech Department of Music
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html
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[Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

[Jonathan Smith]

Remember this?


Hey, I remember that!

I called them two days ago to register Sib3 on a mac intel laptop as  
the Sib. software blocked me from registering via the internet. I was  
told by their rep. that it would run really slowly on a Macintel  
chip. So, I guess the backwards compatibility rave is only good if  
you have an old machine to hand ;-)


Ironically, I installed Finale 2007 on the same laptop and had no  
problems in registering via email. Progress... I guess.


I was also told the upgrade to v4 was £172 pounds sterling, that's  
338 US dollars by my currency converting widget. which is  
considerably more than any Finale upgrade price and I presume the  
upgrade to v5 will cost even more?


Also, you need to take a close look at the features you receive for  
the price. They only attempt to bring Sib. in line with today's  
Finale. They have again taken many of the best features in Finale and  
are trying to incorporate them into their program. It's pure catch up  
in my view. Rather like Vista and OSX dare I say?


Anyway, proof of the pudding is always in the eating.
Try it out.
I have.
Try both apps on a similar project.
See who comes out top.
I did - Finale.

A+
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RE: [Finale] playback using MIDI

[Derek Kane]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Williams, Jim
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 3:45 PM
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: RE: [Finale] playback using MIDI

Have you UNCHECKED:
 MIDI>play Finale Through Native Instruments VST??  Yes.

What is your output device in the MIDI setup?   My soundcard.  I've tried
many combinations.  

Jim



From: Derek Kane
Sent: Fri 08-Jun-07 18:36
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: [Finale] playback using MIDI


Just a quick question.

I tried to play a finale file with the midi sounds only, and it wouldn't
play.
I then was able to change the midi settings and have it play on GPO.

Is there a way to make finale play midi sounds only?  This would be very
helpful.

Thanks in advance.

Derek

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.13/840 - Release Date: 6/8/2007
3:15 PM
 

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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.13/840 - Release Date: 6/8/2007
3:15 PM
 

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.13/840 - Release Date: 6/8/2007
3:15 PM
 

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Re: [Finale] Intel Mac, BIAB plugin not showing up

[Eric Dannewitz]

Shows up fine on my Intel iMac..

Christopher Smith wrote:

Anybody on an Intel Mac out there with Finale 2007?

Can you confirm that the BIAB Autoharmonising plugin doesn't show up 
in the plugin menu under Scoring and Arranging, even though it is in 
the right folder in Plugins?


I can't figure out why it doesn't show up. I replaced it, I trashed 
preferences, I removed every plugin except that one, no go. Tech 
support hasn't come up with an answer yet.


Christopher

(we also lost the MIBAC rhythm section generator, which was actually 
fairly useful for playback purposes in front of clients. No Mac 
version runs on recent Finale versions, though apparently the PCers 
still have it.)



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Re: [Finale] comparing finale/sibelius

[Darcy James Argue]

Existing Finale users can cross-grade to Sibelius 5 for $199 US.

Cheers,

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY



On 08 Jun 2007, at 5:13 PM, Jonathan Smith wrote:


Remember this?


Hey, I remember that!

I called them two days ago to register Sib3 on a mac intel laptop  
as the Sib. software blocked me from registering via the internet.  
I was told by their rep. that it would run really slowly on a  
Macintel chip. So, I guess the backwards compatibility rave is only  
good if you have an old machine to hand ;-)


Ironically, I installed Finale 2007 on the same laptop and had no  
problems in registering via email. Progress... I guess.


I was also told the upgrade to v4 was £172 pounds sterling, that's  
338 US dollars by my currency converting widget. which is  
considerably more than any Finale upgrade price and I presume the  
upgrade to v5 will cost even more?


Also, you need to take a close look at the features you receive for  
the price. They only attempt to bring Sib. in line with today's  
Finale. They have again taken many of the best features in Finale  
and are trying to incorporate them into their program. It's pure  
catch up in my view. Rather like Vista and OSX dare I say?


Anyway, proof of the pudding is always in the eating.
Try it out.
I have.
Try both apps on a similar project.
See who comes out top.
I did - Finale.

A+
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