Re: [Finale] F2K7 no standard playback setup

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 09:41 AM 2/18/2007 -0500, Rafael L. Junchaya wrote:
>instead of copying from the Fin2006 folder, copy it from the Finale 
>folder in the installation disk, as this file has been improved (at least 
>it's a bit larger)

I've just done that, thanks. Not sure where the improvements are, but at
least it still works. (With Finale these days, that's a plus!)

Dennis




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Re: [Finale] LINKED parts/score, bars numbers

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 04:04 PM 2/18/2007 -0500, John Howell wrote:
>Actually I don't think Arabic numerals have upper and lower cases.* 
>At least they don't on typewriter or computer keyboards.  You just 
>change the size.

In traditional typsetting, some fonts have separate sizes and widths for
different purposes -- not quite upper and lower case, but sorted similarly
(yes, many years ago I hand-set display type in a print shop). Accessing
these additional numerical characters in computerdom means using a separate
font version (the one that usually also includes a set of ligatures,
swashes, etc.). It's very pretty; one of the folks on this list has some
gorgeous examples.

I think we had this discussion a few months ago.

Dennis




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RE: [Finale] F2K7 no standard playback setup

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 09:52 PM 2/17/2007 -0500, Williams, Jim wrote:
>IIRC the installer for 2k7 had issues.

You were right ... it wasn't a custom install, but the soundfont was indeed
missing from the component files. I dragged the one from the Finale 2006
folder and it works fine.

Thanks much!

Dennis




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RE: [Finale] F2K7 no standard playback setup

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 09:52 PM 2/17/2007 -0500, Williams, Jim wrote:
>IIRC the installer for 2k7 had issues. I believe 
>if a user tried a custom install, a few things did 
>not install...one of which was the softsynth. Did 
>you do a custom install?

I didn't. I just used the default for 2K7. But I'll look to see if there
are any missing components in the directories. Thanks for the tip on that.

Dennis



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[Finale] F2K7 no standard playback setup

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

Hi all,

F2K7c, Windows XP.

The Midi setup on the Finale softsynth does not allow the dialog box to
appear. When I click "Softsynth settings" (for any device on the list,
including "none"), an error box says it cannot initialize softsynth
playback, device in use.

The Native Instruments stuff works, but I don't want to use that and have
it unchecked. This happens even if Finale is the first program I run after
reboot. Nothing in the droplist works, even the standard Microsoft synths
or "none".

The regular Finale playback works fine in 2K6 and previous versions, but
has never worked in any version of 2K7. Tonight I need it.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Dennis







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Re: [Finale] Re: Pitch Rotation

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 09:15 AM 2/16/2007 +1100, Matthew Hindson fastmail acct wrote:
>Yes, except that would push the durations to the right as well, but I 
>just want the pitches (i.e. durations stay exactly the same).

I understand what you need -- I've wanted it myself for compositional
purposes, kind of an isorhythmic thing. Alas, I've always done it by hand
... reminds me of the pen and paper days. The same goes for any algorithmic
approach. I wish patterns could be applied. Directly, without having to
import bits & pieces of Midi files, which then create an incredible morass
of badly translated rhythms.

Dennis



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Re: [Finale] TAN: musical note values in OZ?

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 07:04 PM 2/14/2007 +0100, Daniel Wolf wrote:
>In all seriousness, an equal division of the octave into ten parts was 
>proposed during the French Revolutionary era. 

An octave divided into 10 parts was the premise of one of a set of three
xylophones built for David Gunn and me by Fred Carlson in the mid-1980s.
The composition that was going to be written, but never came about, was
"Bad Vibes".

(David Fenton might recognize Carlson, who built my bass viola da gamba
that's been for sale for about five years.)

Dennis






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Re: [Finale] O.T. Touch Screen technology: possible implicationsforFinale?

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 08:33 PM 2/13/2007 -0500, David W. Fenton wrote:
>Has anyone gotten into "mouse gestures?" The only program I know that 
>uses them is Firefox and I don't really understand them, myself, so 
>I've never tried it out. Anyone?

I tried to use them with Opera, before I went to Firefox. But because I use
a combination of pen, mouse and trackball on the same machine, they're not
consistent enough among the three devices. Too many accidents. :)

They're also on the Palm devices (at least the old Palm V that I still
use), and there the gestures are few, and with just a stylus input, they're
second nature now -- like the old blue-pen marks from the paper editing days.

Dennis



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Re: [Finale] O.T. Touch Screen technology: possible implicationsfor Finale?

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 01:53 AM 2/14/2007 +0100, shirling & neueweise wrote:
>by the way, to put things in perspective a little, i used a touch 
>screen as early as 13 years ago as a waiter, the "squirrel" system.

Funny that it's been around for quite a while. I gave a talk about this 21
years ago at ID Expo. You'll get a chuckle about what has *not* happened yet:

http://maltedmedia.com/books/papers/s4-pentk.html

I thought it was around the corner. Looks like, at this point, not really
even in my lifetime.

Dennis




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[Finale] Javier Ruiz?

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

Hi all,

Anyone have the latest email for Javier Ruiz? Both the mac.com addresses I
have are bouncing.

Please reply privately.

Dennis




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Re: [Finale] HP ignores markings

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 03:27 PM 2/8/2007 -0500, Darcy James Argue wrote:
>I don't know why it's not working for Derek. Perhaps he's not using  
>one of the above expressions, or his Human Playback Prefs have been  
>modified from the default.

My tempo-change markings don't work with HP either, neither those defined
to a shape, nor those just left as words for HP to deal with. It does its
own little ritard at the end of pieces, and listens to tempo metrical
markings, but not accel or decel or rit (etc.). I haven't touched the HP
playback settings from the default, except to choose which one to use. This
is in 2K6 and 2K7 under WinXP.

Dennis



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Re: [Finale] music theory

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 01:41 PM 2/6/2007 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>anybody out there know anything about MusicPress (from the software
>company in Vermont)?

Formerly available. I have it. I wrote the last documentation for it, as
far as it got.

It is very different from Finale. The last version is fully functional
under OS9, Midi doesn't work under OSX and I believe it doesn't work at all
on Intel Macs (just repeating here). It still works under WinXP, but don't
know about Vista

The results are very nice, but it's not musical -- it's quite graphical in
approach, and its Midi input was quite rudimentary at last update.

Contact me off-list (only, please) for more info.

Dennis



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Re: [Finale] MP3--listen only?

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 08:29 PM 2/5/2007 -0500, David W. Fenton wrote:
>Not in a complete format. Real streaming (not Real(tm)) writes only a 
>small part of the file at a time to the hard drive. Yes, you can 
>capture the real-time playback, but there is no complete file 
>downloaded for you to save from your browser cache or from your 
>computer's TEMP folder.

That's right. Real's whole thing from ca. 1996 (until the last time I
looked) has been their own Real-Time Streaming Protocol. If you open up one
of the Real meta files (the http:// one) it will contain a reference to a
file that begins rtsp://   That file is inaccessible except to the Real
software (the player has a statistics panel if you want to see it in action).

Various other program wrap the original file in a similar way; Flash has
one, and it's used on YouTube.

Dennis



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Re: [Finale] MP3--listen only?

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 01:51 PM 2/5/2007 -0500, dhbailey wrote:
>The only way to guarantee that something won't be ripped off is to not 
>put it on line. Period.

You made me chuckle. Though the technology discussed is out of date, my
essay from ten years ago had about the same things to say
.

"As Internet connections get faster, high-quality copies of your latest
compositions are only a mouse click away. Paradigm shift: You are no longer
in control."

Plus ça change, etc. :)

Dennis




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Re: [Finale] [OT] etymological origin of royalties?

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 03:04 PM 2/5/2007 +0100, shirling & neueweise wrote:
>anyone know where the word originates? i'm wondering if it has to do 
>with the private and quasi-private "public" concerts held in 
>aristocractic-supported subscription series common in the late 18th 
>and early 19th c. where collections would be made for the composer 
>from the audience members.

Your time guess on current usage appears to be close. The Online
Etymological Dictionary is a pretty good place for this stuff:

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=royalty

royalty
1398," office or position of a sovereign," from O.Fr. roialte, from
V.L. *regalitatem (nom. *regalitas), from L. regalis (see royal). Sense of
"prerogatives or rights granted by a sovereign to an individual or
corporation" is from 1483. From that evolved more general senses, such as
"payment to a landowner for use of a mine" (1839), and ultimately "payment
to an author, composer, etc." for sale or use of his or her work (1857).



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Re: [Finale] OT: A dumb question

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 08:11 PM 2/4/2007 -0500, A-NO-NE Music wrote:
>I remember, in traditional harmony, you are not supposed to double the
>3rd, but I don't remember what is the reason for this.

The traditional reason is that the color of the third is so strong that
doubling it creates an ugly balance. On the other hand, if you're
Stravinsky writing the opening chord of "Symphony of Psalms", you can thumb
your nose at traditional reasons. :)

Dennis






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Re: [Finale] JPEG problem

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 02:43 PM 2/2/2007 -0500, Andrew Stiller wrote:
>I told a composer I've just taken on to send me a JPEG of himself to 
>include on my web site. He did, but it was too big. Upon reducing it 
>however, the distribution of colors looks really bad--as if he had some 
>horrible skin disease. All the other pics at my website are JPEGs, and 
>they all look fine.
>What's going on here, and what can I do about it?

The only idea that comes to mind: Are you sure the original was a JPEG? If
it was a large GIF (or the last image you resized was 256 colors or less,
and the setting is 'stuck'), the reduction will use a different resizing
algorithm, making it splotchy. If you convert it to JPEG first or reset the
resizing choices, that probably won't happen.

Just a thought ... it may be something entirely unrelated, like he was
wearing a houndstooth shirt. :)

Dennis



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Re: [Finale] How to eliminate ledger lines in specific measures?

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 04:48 PM 1/31/2007 -0600, Robert Patterson wrote:
>Use the Hide Leger Lines plugin (from Makemusic).

Thanks very much to you and Aaron. There are just so many places to look
these days, especially for something that I don't use often. I even looked
in your plugins, Robert, but not the native Finale ones!

Dennis



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[Finale] How to eliminate ledger lines in specific measures?

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

Hi all,

I can't find how to eliminate ledger lines in specific areas.

There is a section where notes are placed on a one-line staff, but as soon
as the pitches get above or below the now-invisible lines 1 2 4 and 5,
there are ledger lines. I can't eliminate them entirely because I need them
in other areas of the score.

There doesn't seem to be a staff style setting for this. Any hints other
than to place noteheads as graphics? (No fun ... that doesn't play back.)

Thanks,
Dennis






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Re: [Finale] WinFin Productivity 5.0 Font Problems

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 11:21 AM 1/30/2007 -0600, Henry E. Howey wrote:
>Now that Bill Duncan is gone, I am trying some of his templates and XP
>will not load several important TRUTYPE fonts, describing them as
>"damaged."
>Has anyone a solution to suggest?

When this problem has occurred (not with Bill Duncan's fonts, which I don't
have), I have backed up the existing font, loaded the font into an editor
(I use High-Logic Font Creator), run the repair function, and saved the
repaired font.

If you want to send me one of your broken fonts off-list, I'll give it a try.

Dennis



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Re: [Finale] Silly Question (But Important to Me!)

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 01:00 PM 1/28/2007 -0500, Neal Gittleman wrote:
>Now there's no automatic adjusting and I have to go and do it  
>manually via Music Spacing.  Have I inadvertently changed something  
>or do *I* need a memory upgrade?

Memory upgrade available. Find it under Edit -> Automatic Music Spacing
(check).

Assuming my post-reading module is functioning properly. :)

Dennis


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[Finale] Images in PS Compile [resend]

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

Resending; can anybody offer advice for a workaround, or at least confirm
that this is an issue? FinWin 2K7a.

Dennis


Hi all,

The "Compile Postscript Listing" at last accepts 
custom page sizes in Finale 2007.

However, it doesn't seem to compile with the TIFF 
graphics included. I can get the images by printing 
to PDF (resulting in the same pukey screen display 
as in the past), but not compile. It doesn't seem to 
matter if I have the images linked or embedded. 

Page example: 
http://maltedmedia.com/people/bathory/music/waam/lunar-cascade-january.pdf

Is there a setting to embed graphics in compile?

Thanks,
Dennis




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[Finale] Images in PS Compile

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

Hi all,

The "Compile Postscript Listing" at last accepts 
custom page sizes in Finale 2007.

However, it doesn't seem to compile with the TIFF 
graphics included. I can get the images by printing 
to PDF (resulting in the same pukey screen display 
as in the past), but not compile. It doesn't seem to 
matter if I have the images linked or embedded. 

Page example: 
http://maltedmedia.com/people/bathory/music/waam/lunar-cascade-january.pdf

Is there a setting to embed graphics in compile?

Thanks,
Dennis



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Re: [Finale] 2007b is out

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 08:13 PM 1/17/2007 -0800, Mariposa Symphony Orchestra wrote:
>Nice one, Dennis -- but really?   What's the story?   
>If so, I hope the dam is 100 feet DOWNSTREAM from the house!
>And in the meanwhile, I'll try to refrain from whistling Coates' 
>"Dambusters March".

Please do. :)

Yes, our house is downstream and the dam is upstream, an inconvenient
situation. Pix on the bottom of this page taken from the edge of the house:
http://maltedmedia.com/people/bathory/waam-20060611.html

It gets some scary. Our dock was dislodged last year and swept a mile
downstream a few weeks ago. Next summer the dam is supposed to come down
after 80 years of doing nothing (it was built just before the legendary
flood of 1927, and never used) and the streambed restored to a less
threatening shape.

Somewhat OT: Finished the rush Finale job after considerable effort (a
score that had been converted from Finale ca. 1994), went to Chamber Music
America with little to show for it, and am now back home working on the
WAAM project.

Dennis




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Re: [Finale] 2007b is out

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 06:32 PM 1/17/2007 -0800, Mariposa Symphony Orchestra wrote:
>Rebar functionality? Who needs it!?

You wouldn't say that if you had a cracked dam 100 feet from the house like
we do. :)

Dennis



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Re: [Finale] 32nd notes

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 01:47 PM 1/8/2007 -0500, dhbailey wrote:
>On my computer I have a font called MaestroTimes Bold.  I don't know if 
>that's part of Finale, but you might look and see if it's on your 
>computer.  On Windows, you can use that font set and use alt-0243 to get it.

I have MaestroTimes. I see it as character 219, but it's also defective
(the lower flag has a reversing curve that creates a 'splotch' on it), so
unless its appearance is very small, it's not usable.

Dennis





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Re: [Finale] 32nd notes

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 01:26 PM 1/8/2007 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>I use Finale 2004 and I need a 32nd note for a complex metronome marking.  I 
>can't seem to find one in the Maestro character set.  
>Is there one?
>If not , other than creating one, I would appreciate any helpful suggestions.

There isn't one (unless I've missed it, always possible).

You can make one in shape designer with characters 101 (eighth note) and
114 (double flag).

You can get the Bach font. It's character 198 in the basic set.
http://www.mu.qub.ac.uk/~tomita/bach-mf.html

Dennis




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Re: [Finale] Last minute fix

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 07:06 PM 1/8/2007 +0100, Michael Cook wrote:
>Select the multimeasure rest with measure tool, choose "Multimeasure  
>Rests > Edit..." from the Measure menu and adjust the end point.

Exactly so. Right there for the seeing. Thanks so much! Deadlines... :(

Dennis



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[Finale] Last minute fix

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

Hi all,

Quick one. F2k7. I have a multimeasure rest followed by a measure with a
clef change. How do I get the clef and the multimeasure rest from crashing?
I can't find a tool to do it.

Thanks,
Dennis


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Re: [Finale] OT: Veni Redemptor Genias

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 04:07 PM 1/6/2007 -0600, Robert Patterson wrote:
>Can anyone point me at a reliable modern transcription of this chant? I 
>found a PDF in chant notation, but it has been too long since I had to 
>read chant notation to be certain I'm reading it correctly.

HAM 120a, but it's only for the incipit to a piece, unless the chant itself
is very short. I don't find it in the LIber. Where is this from? HAM calls
it an Ambrosian hymn.

Dennis





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Re: Re(2): [Finale] TIFF from Finale [was: Re: TAN: Lulu.com]

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 06:04 PM 1/5/2007 -0500, Aaron Sherber wrote:
>I'm coming in late to this discussion. In general, yes -- a PDF with 
>fonts embedded should look the same no matter where it is printed.

Should is the operant word. We've discussed this before, and I've
recommended getting the Postscript printer driver for the printer the
company uses.

Whenever I design for external printing, I do that, because subtle
differences in the rasterizer can change the appearance of fine elements --
of which there are many in Finale lines and curves.

Were this my project, I would first contact Lulu.com to obtain their target
printer and get the Postscript driver (Adobe has hundreds available on
their site). Print/compile Postscript to that device, and then send the PDF
to Lulu.com and pay for a test copy.

Dennis




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[Finale] Going quiet for "We Are All Mozart"

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

Hi Friends,

I'll be going 'under the radar' for 2007. Even though the "We Are All
Mozart" project (http://maltedmedia.com/waam/) has just 72 commissions to
date, I expect it will fill in some more.

In any case, it will be a lot of work and I won't be very visible online,
except in my blog.

The blog (http://maltedmedia.com/bathory/waam-blog.html) will post a
completed piece each day (if I can get it in web-friendly form).

I hope to see some of you at the Chamber Music America conference in
January in New York. I'll be in residence in Portugal most of April working
on WAAM as well as a project (with midwife (and my wife) Stevie Balch) on
birth song. My regular engraving and editing clients will have their work
done, but I won't be taking new clients until 2008.

Pasted below is the last mailing on WAAM. (O-List ensembles... You gotta
have a spare 50 bucks or so for a fanfare! C'mon!)

So Happy New Year everyone! See you in 2008!

Dennis

(PS Finale folks: Yup, I may show up in desperation some days.)



On New Year's Day, "We Are All Mozart" begins.

This is a composer advocacy project. I am asking for your participation.

In the nonpop/classical genres, composers are not awarded public and media
interest. They have become largely invisible in modern culture. Where an
informed public might name a dozen active authors or artists or film
directors, they would be hard-pressed to name two living composers.

"We Are All Mozart" is meant as a high-profile project for 365 days of
musical composition. Through word-of-mouth, 72 pieces have been
commissioned as of today. No, that's not yet critical mass.

Though it's a hefty number for a single composer, it needs quite a few more
to achieve part of the project's purpose: to raise the visibility of nonpop
('the music that used to be called classical') and reveal composers as
highly motivated and richly creative.

I'm asking you to participate. Usually composers come to ensembles and
presenters asking for their music to be played. With "We Are All Mozart,"
I'm asking you to commission a new piece from me for this project.

You might prefer to participate in the project by commissioning a composer
local to your ensemble. Please do so. Even though I'd like to meet the
critical mass of 365 pieces, this is a project about composers being
everywhere.

The commissions are economical and diverse. For details and open calendar
dates as well as a "Concert Music. Buy Local." downloadable bumpersticker,
please visit http://maltedmedia.com/waam/ 

Let me know if you will participate in "We Are All Mozart" by commissioning
a new work. (And if you can't, please tell others about it. Most
commissions have come from individual performers looking for repertoire.)

Dennis





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Re: [Finale] Re: OT: Audacity's GVerb filter

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 09:34 AM 12/24/2006 +, Ken Moore wrote:
>Dennis Bathory-Kitsz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Also, don't use headphones unless you mean the results to be heard that
>> way. I don't know the psychoacoustics, but a good headphone mix seems to
>> sound too wet on speakers.
>
>One reason would be that when you listen on speakers you are adding your 
>room reverb to what is on the recording.  In the psychology module that 
>was part of my music degree, I participated in a whole class demonstration 
>of the effect of room reverberation on speech perception.  Half the class 
>had earphones, half listened through speakers to 100 synthesized versions 
>of a word.  Through speakers, a 10 ms. gap in a hissing sound* could be heard
>(by me and a few others), while through speakers gaps less than about 50 ms.
>were not detectable (in a lecture theatre seating about 200).

It also has to do with the way information is perceived when the two sound
sources are heard by the two ears vs. isolated with one headphone
transducer isolated to each ear. I have totally forgotten the science on
this, but even in an anechoic chamber, there's a greater wetness with
speakers. But I think the rule is just never to mix with headphones.

Something to ask on the CEC-Conference list, I think. :)

Dennis




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RE: [Finale] OT: Audacity's GVerb filter

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 09:49 PM 12/22/2006 -0500, Williams, Jim wrote:
>What about chorus, though? Any suggestions on that? I'll experiment, 
>of course, but I'm wondering if you have a principle on that?

I've never liked it and don't use it. Some people use it effectively, but I
just don't. My attempts come out sounding like a robot ensemble.

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Re: [Finale] OT: Audacity's GVerb filter

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 08:41 PM 12/22/2006 -0500, David W. Fenton wrote:
>On 22 Dec 2006 at 19:54, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
>> Roomsize is the presence; 
>
>What do you mean by "presence?" How does that translate into actual 
>reverb sound? I found that I actually got better results with smaller 
>rooms and wetter settings.

Sort of inverse presence. The smaller the room, the more intimate the sound.

>I had been using my synthesizer's reverb and chorus before recording, 
>because it made my weak orchestral strings sound better. Should I 
>make the recording from MIDI completely dry and then use the Kjaerhus 
>chorus and reverb filters on that? Or should I just the synthesizer 
>chorus and the plugin reverb? Or is this something I'll have to 
>experiment with to find out?

Experiment.

I record completely dry and add the room sound later. Two reverbs can
create some unpleasant results, with the soundstage all muddied and
instruments wandering around. Position the instruments carefully (the
apparent separate of a real hall with your choice of seat) and record dry.
Then add the reverb to match your seat position. In other words, if it's a
string quartet, don't pan the first violin hard right and the cello hard
left unless you plan to add reverb with the understanding that the hall is
somewhere behind you. :)

Also, don't use headphones unless you mean the results to be heard that
way. I don't know the psychoacoustics, but a good headphone mix seems to
sound too wet on speakers.

Quick advice, but the reality is to experiment. You might also try some of
the convolution plugins. They 'extract' the ambience from an actual
recording and then create a resulting reverb you can apply to a recording.
Google audio convolution; you'll find hundreds of concert halls modeled as
reverbs.

Dennis




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Re: [Finale] OT: Audacity's GVerb filter

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 07:14 PM 12/22/2006 -0500, David W. Fenton wrote:
>Does anyone understand the parameters provided by the GVerb filter in 
>Audacity? I've Googled on it and found little of use -- a few people 
>offer settings that they think are great, but nobody seems to explain 
>how the different parameters interact.

What do you need to know?

It's a standard room reverb. Think of it as an envelope generator, but with
reverb parameters.

The default settring has the dry signal at zero; move that way up and the
rest of it should start making sense.

Roomsize is the presence; reverb time is the total length of the reverb;
damping is like the furniture in the room; input bandwidth is the room's
tendency to resonate certain frequencies; dry signal level is the original;
early reflection is the mix of nearby signals (the 'boingy' part); tail is
the resonance after the reverb itself.

This particular reverb is a tad weak. Audacity takes VSTs, so you can drop
better ones into that directory. I recommend the Kjaerhus "Classic" series
(free!).

Dennis



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Re: [Finale] Change in applying mass edit spacing?

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 05:28 PM 12/21/2006 -0500, Rafael L. Junchaya wrote:
>But Note Spacing still doesn't work if the current part has been assigned a 
>special voicing (Specify voicing in Manage Parts dialog), nor 4 key nor 
>context menu action. The other spacing options do work but this one in the 
>above mentioned case, at least for me.

I have nothing defined; the Manage Parts box is blank. This score has
passed through several hands, so I don't know what version of Finale it
started with, but it came to me as Finale 2007 with a bucketload of
detailed revisions.

2K7 is working okay so far because nothing exceptional is demanded. The few
problems that have existed forever still exist. Finale is still like
grammar school. :)

Nice to see your name here, Rafael.  (For those who don't recall, Rafael
won the Kalvos & Damian "Komposer Kombat" in 2005.)

And postscript to anyone who cares to pass it along -- "We Are All Mozart"
has 70 commissions, still very short of the goal, but it's now also on
eBay. Item #330064845503:)  

Dennis






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Re: [Finale] Re: Change in applying mass edit spacing?

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 04:40 PM 12/21/2006 -0500, Aaron Sherber wrote:
>At 04:27 PM 12/21/2006, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
> >There's a 2007a for Windows? When I went to the site, all I got was a Mac
> >update.
>
>Yes. finalemusic.com, Support | Downloads, search for Finale and 2007.

Thanks. I see the problem. Without Javascript enabled (I keep it off by
default), there is no maintenance update link available -- nor any
navigation top or left. Gotta report these guys to the Section 508 office. :)

Dennis






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Re: [Finale] Re: Change in applying mass edit spacing?

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 10:00 PM 12/21/2006 +0100, shirling & neueweise wrote:
>don't know, but why not just hit "4"?  way faster.

Much faster. Didn't ever learn that one. And it works.

At 03:58 PM 12/21/2006 -0500, Aaron Sherber wrote:
>This seems to work for me in 2007a.

There's a 2007a for Windows? When I went to the site, all I got was a Mac
update.

Anyway, the menu item just doesn't work (neither with mouse or ALT+M,S,N),
and using it doesn't appear as an "undo" either. But jef's "4" works, as
does the context menu.

I'm just so used to using the menu on this one. Hard habit to break.

Dennis




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[Finale] Change in applying mass edit spacing?

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

Hi all,

FinWin 2K7, WinXP.

Select area, choose from menu Mass Edit, Music Spacing, Apply Note Spacing
to Current Part/Score. It seems to have no effect on the selected area.
Apply Beat Spacing and Apply Time Signature Spacing do work. However, if I
right click on the selected area and choose Music Spacing, Apply Note
Spacing, it does work.

Have I missed a behavior change, or does this just not work from the menu?

Dennis





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Re: [Finale] Microtones

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 07:46 PM 12/21/2006 +, Will Denayer wrote:
>I am very interested in microtonal music too.

You and Kurt may want to research the list archives from this year. There
was a very good thread about how to accomplish microtones in Finale,
including playback.

Dennis



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Re: [Finale] OT: Temporary email addresses

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 02:06 PM 12/20/2006 -0500, Aaron Sherber wrote:
>At 01:42 PM 12/20/2006, Phil Daley wrote:
> >You go to a site to download a free program.
> >They want an email address to confirm that the email address you have given
> >them is valid BEFORE they will let you download the program.
>
>Right. BugMeNot won't help you in this case. Neither Dennis nor I 
>ever claimed that it would.

But it can, depending on the site. For example, BugMeNot works just fine at
download.com ("blablupp" even wrote 80 reviews, it says!), but none of the
BugMeNot accounts (I gave up at 15 tries) work at driverguide.com

If it's an address that is to be sent a download key, though, you're out of
luck.

Dennis




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Re: [Finale] OT: Temporary email addresses

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 12:05 PM 12/20/2006 -0500, Phil Daley wrote:
>At 12/20/2006 11:09 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:

> >And there's also the "BugMeNot" extension to Firefox, which auto-fills
> >fields for sites that require "free" membership. Click on the log-in field,
> >choose "sign in with BugMeNot" from the context menu, and yer in!
>
>OK, but does that get you the required return email to confirm your address?

No, it's already a registered address contributed to the "BugMeNot"
library. If you actually need something at the address, you won't get it.
But if you want to (for example) read the NYTimes or Dallas Morning News or
Financial Times and aren't registered, BugMeNot will do it.

I use it lots for all those annoying "register first" sites which advertise
at you and sell your address as soon as you register.

Dennis




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Re: [Finale] OT: Temporary email addresses

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 10:42 AM 12/20/2006 -0500, Phil Daley wrote:
>If you have to sign up for something using an email address that you don't 
>want to be spammed on, take a look at this article:
>

And there's also the "BugMeNot" extension to Firefox, which auto-fills
fields for sites that require "free" membership. Click on the log-in field,
choose "sign in with BugMeNot" from the context menu, and yer in!

Dennis





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Re: [Finale] Trouble adding a natural to a note.

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 04:03 PM 12/15/06 -0500, dhbailey wrote:
>And Dennis' remark that the * key will work if the cursor is on the 
>original position doesn't hold true in Fin2007, at least when I change a 
>G to Abb using the enharmonic key (9).  I notice that it DOES work when 
>it's a simpler change, such as Ab to G# or vice versa.  But when it's G 
>to Abb, it doesn't work.

I'll have to check that. I am using F2K7 on one machine, and didn't try the
double-flat test.

Yup, I'm back. This is the new motherboard, CPU and memory. All seems to be
working just fine. Under three hours -- not so bad.

Dennis




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Re: [Finale] "Last word" arguments

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 12:49 PM 12/15/06 -0500, Phil Daley wrote:
>I would expect to see primary posts date ordered from newest to oldest.
>I would expect to see replies to primary posts from oldest to newest.

There are no replies. It's just a weblog, a book-blog, so to speak. If an
interesting comment is made via the contact form, it may end up (with
permission) in a future commentary.

Going down for a hardware upgrade. Gulp. New motherboard, CPU and memory.
With luck, I'll be posting back here in a few hours...

Dennis




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Re: [Finale] "Last word" arguments

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 09:52 AM 12/15/06 -0800, Eric Dannewitz wrote:
>Well, it doesn't make sense. Sites like Digg, Slashdot, MacDailyNews, 
>MacNN.Yahoo News...
>All those have new items at the top. Doesn't it make sense then that 
>messages and Blog and Email software work the same way?

Following what is contextually appropriate makes much more sense. News
(time-sensitive) is not the same as discussion (verbally sequential). A
blog might be either subject-sensitive (such as mine) or time-sensitive.
Emerson said it best: "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little
minds."

Dennis




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Re: [Finale] "Last word" arguments

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 09:17 AM 12/15/06 -0800, Mark D Lew wrote:
>I've long felt the same way about blogs, which are essentially built as 
>a perpetual top-post.  Why can't they add new items to the bottom and 
>push old ones off the top, instead of vice versa?  As far as I can 
>tell, the blogging softwares don't even offer that as an option.
>I'm used to it by now, but I've always thought it was stupid.

It's funny about that. My blog is set up as daily commentaries (not using
blogging software), one commentary per day, oldest first, and I've received
complaints that it doesn't make sense that way, even though it has an
up-front index. :)

Dennis






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Re: [Finale] Trouble adding a natural to a note.

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 06:19 AM 12/15/06 -0500, Éric Dussault wrote:
>I believe it becomes unresponsive when a note has been enharmonically  
>changed. From memory, sometimes pressing the asterisk on the previous  
>enharmonic note will work.

Oh, yes, that happened yesterday, but it affects not only the * but also +
and - (in Speedy). The cursor has to be in the note's original position to
work. So if it was A-flat enharmonically changed (Speedy "9") to G-sharp,
the * key will not work unless the cursor is still on the A position. Since
I've only had 2K7 for a few days and only for one client, I had taken this
as some setting in 2K7 that I'd missed.

2K7 so far has lots of strange behavior. The mass edit - select region -
apply note spacing doesn't work at all for me from the menu, but works from
the right-click (context) menu. Again, I haven't figured out if this is a
setting thing new to 2K7.

Dennis


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Re: [Finale] Trouble adding a natural to a note.

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 11:48 PM 12/14/06 -0500, Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
>http://www.bytenet.net/kpclow/finale/flat-to-add.jpg
>The note that is pointed with an arrow (G), needs a natural added to
>it. But Finale will not let me (I'm assuming because it thinks this
>note hasn't had a # before). What would be a solution to adding a
>natural sign?

Pressing * in Speedy shows or hides an accidental. Or do you mean something
else?

Dennis



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Re: [Finale] Disk Utililty

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 10:01 AM 12/12/06 -0800, Eric Dannewitz wrote:
>Yup. Seems Disk Utility can do a bunch of things, except compensate for 
>Sony's stupid DVD_VR format...

VideoHelp.com has some info on ripping DVD_VR on Macs:
 http://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=277239&highlight=mac+dvdvr

There's also a small bit of freeware for Windows PC that will 'fix' DVD_VR
files for reburning (for future reference; I haven't been blessed with
getting one of these DVDs yet, but ya nevah know):
  http://download.videohelp.com/FixVTS/

Dennis



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Re: [Finale] OT: The Classical Archives down?

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 04:27 PM 12/12/06 +0100, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
>On 12.12.2006 Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
>> At 10:28 AM 12/12/06 +0100, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
>>> >How can that be, have the classical archives been censored for Europe?
>> 
>> It might be a DNS issue at your ISP. Try this:
>>   http://208.139.194.154
>
>Same problem.

It's not finding the route. Run traceroute if you have a PC handy. Open a 
command 
line window and type "tracert 208.139.194.154". There's an equivalent Unix 
command 
you should have on a Mac.

The results will resemble what's pasted below, which is my trace from home 
network 
to classicalarchives.com. At some point, yours will stop and you can see what 
it's not 
getting past. Then you can contact your ISP with the info and they (with luck) 
can fix it. :)

Dennis

Tracing route to mm.classicalarchives.com [208.139.194.154] over a maximum of 
30 hops:

  1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms  nighthawk [192.168.244.129]
  2 8 ms32 ms 9 ms  ubr-72-237-57-1.trans-video.ne
  3 9 ms13 ms11 ms  ghengis.trans-video.net [72.23
  448 ms   172 ms   213 ms  lightship-rtr.trans-video.net
  533 ms34 ms33 ms  24.56.106.17
  643 ms40 ms42 ms  24.56.106.10
  740 ms42 ms45 ms  ge-3-4.car4.Washington1.Level3.net 
[4.79.168.205]
  8   232 ms   240 ms   241 ms  ae-13-51.car3.Washington1.Level3.net 
[4.68.121.16]
  945 ms58 ms37 ms  savvis-level3-te.Washington1.Level3.net 
[4.68.110.102]
 1038 ms39 ms42 ms  cpr2-ge-5-0.virginiaequinix.savvis.net 
[204.70.193.101]
 1143 ms38 ms   105 ms  bcs1-so-3-3-0.Washington.savvis.net 
[206.24.238.97]
 1256 ms58 ms56 ms  dcr1-so-3-0-0.Atlanta.savvis.net [204.70.192.53]
 1380 ms76 ms76 ms  dcr1-as1.dallas.savvis.net [204.70.194.178]
 1488 ms92 ms89 ms  dcr1-so-0-0-0.Denver.savvis.net [204.70.192.93]
 1592 ms   134 ms89 ms  216.89.82.202
 16   127 ms88 ms90 ms  denver-core-3-gi-6-0-0.rockynet.com 
[199.45.239.148]
 17   102 ms85 ms91 ms  mm.classicalarchives.com [208.139.194.154]

Trace complete.

[WINDOWS] Arby kicks butt C:\Windows==>







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Re: [Finale] Garritan Sound Libraries and Finale?

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 08:43 AM 12/12/06 +0100, Daniel Wolf wrote:
>In any case, this is not a Garritan problem, this is a problem with 
>sound samples. To get adequate quality, samples have to be large, and to 
>play them in realtime, they have to sit in RAM.

Doesn't it depend on the implementation? I have used large arrangements
(more than 32 tracks) with dozens of massive soundfonts and patch changes
(including a 500MB piano font for a Yamaha grand) running with 512MB RAM
and a 1.6GHz processor (AMD, not Intel). Fast disks can load/unload or
stream these large samples in real time; I use 7200RPM disks with very low
access times. The only slowdown is processor demand for effects. The CPU
can't keep up with those. (But I also understand disk streaming of samples
from disk is patented by the Gigasampler folks.)

What is different about the Garritan arrangement that it can't load/unload?
Are the samples that large? Or don't they use (or not license) disk streaming?

Dennis



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Re: [Finale] OT: The Classical Archives down?

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 10:28 AM 12/12/06 +0100, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
>How can that be, have the classical archives been censored for Europe?

It might be a DNS issue at your ISP. Try this:
  http://208.139.194.154

Dennis






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Re: [Finale] DVDs

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 03:19 PM 12/11/06 -0800, Dean M. Estabrook wrote:
>I think I'll give up.

If it's something you desperately need, check in person with someone with
experience on a Windows PC. There are lots of good utilities for copying
those DVDs that run into trouble on generic operating system installs, with
all the convoluted DVD protection schemes. I just love that DVD Region
Killer application. :)

Some ideas:

1. Sonic MyDVD is supposed to copy DVDs from standalones.
2. Double-check that your DVD player reads the format. Some units do not
read DVD+R.
3. The DVD might not be closed (standalone boxes can do that, and many DVD
players don't care). Close the DVD using your burning application, and then
see if it reads correctly.
4. See this thread on how to copy these using a PC:
http://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=292808

Dennis











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Re: [Finale] cross staff tremoli stem weirdness

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 07:47 PM 12/11/06 +0100, you wrote:
>i don't remember ever coming across this problem before, is this new 
>to finale 2007?
>http://newmusicnotation.com/TEMPFILES/cross-staff_tremoli.pdf

I can confirm it, but I can't find any tool to fix it. I even tried the
edit frame dialog without finding a way to change it.

On the other hand, I don't recall if this was a problem in Finale <2007
because I didn't use the plugin, but used the shaped designer.

Dennis



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Re: [Finale] F2K7/W98SE, yeah, I know

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 02:16 PM 12/7/06 -0600, Noel Stoutenburg wrote:
>There may be a hardware fix for this:  unless it is unlike any laptop I 
>have ever seen, your laptop has an external monitor port.  Temporarily 
>connect one of your 20 inch monitors to your laptop.

I am stupid. Of course.

Many thanks,
Dennis



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[Finale] F2K7/W98SE, yeah, I know

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

Hi all,

I had planned on skipping Finale 2007, but I have a client who upgraded
scores to that format, and now needs revisions.

The program upgrade has arrived, and it installed on the laptop. But the
laptop screen is pretty much unusable for a large orchestral score.

My desktop is Win98SE with two 20-inch monitors, but I need to keep this
machine Win98-based.

The Finale 2007 installer won't proceed. I'm not using any of the GPO stuff
anyway; all I want is the basic program to run so I can work on these scores.

Is there any way to coerce Finale 2007 into installing on this machine,
such as a registry tweak?

Thanks,
Dennis




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Re: [Finale] O.T. Self publishing issues

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 01:35 PM 12/6/06 -0500, you wrote:
>If you'll allow me a moment's more self-promotion, this is actually  
>my second mention in the NYT in the past week. They also reviewed one  
>of my gigs in Saturday's paper:
>http://tinyurl.com/y99skl

Missed that one -- fantastic! "he wants his music to make contemporary
sense" Yeah!

Dennis






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Re: [Finale] O.T. Self publishing issues

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 05:49 AM 12/6/06 -0500, Darcy James Argue wrote:
>Lobbying for more effective union leadership and lobbying for  
>rational copyright reform aren't mutually exclusive activities.

Talk about mutual exclusivity, neither are commenting on the Finale list
and getting a mention in the Times. Good one, Darcy!

  http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/06/arts/music/06blog.html

Dennis


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Re: [Finale] O.T. Christmas Trees on the Finale List

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 11:23 PM 12/5/06 -0500, Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
>Since there are so many people on this list, it'd be really wonderful
>to see Christmas trees from your part of the world, so feel free to
>share ;)

No trees inside here until Christmas eve. But I did learn to iceskate at
Rockefeller Center as a teenager (that would be, um, gasp, 1964).

Thanks for the lovely pix!

Dennis



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Re: [Finale] OT: Catching Flash videos from the net

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 11:50 PM 12/4/06 +0100, Barbara Touburg wrote:
>are some awesome music animations. Is there a way to save them locally?

http://www.youtubex.com/
http://www.youtubia.com/

You need the FLV player.

Dennis



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Re: [Finale] O.T. Self publishing issues

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 10:41 AM 12/4/06 -0500, Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
>Siva Vaidhyanathan has written a wonderful book on copyright issues
>"Copyrights and Copywrongs: The Rise of Intellectual Property and How
>It Threatens Creativity" (New York University Press, 2001)

Yes, this is an excellent book -- though a little polemical sometimes. I
think Lawrence Lessig is the man when it comes to these issues.

With all the books and copyright law documents in my library, I should go
back & get a copyright law degree. :)

Dennis



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Re: [Finale] O.T. Self publishing issues

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 10:38 AM 12/4/06 -0500, dhbailey wrote:
>That's the problem with all this copyright stuff -- it's definitely not 
>a black and white issue.  Where would someone find a copy of your old 
>web-page, if you've taken it down?  If it's archived somewhere, I do 
>hope you've sued that place for infringing your copyright.

It might be on the Wayback Machine:
http://www.archive.org/web/web.php
They archive pages unless denied by robots.txt or asked to remove a page.

This doesn't directly relate, but affects tethered software & other
protected software:
http://www.copyright.gov/1201/docs/1201_recommendation.pdf

Dennis


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Re: [Finale] O.T. Self publishing issues

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 03:28 PM 12/4/06 +0100, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
>That's what copyright is about. It has very little to do with benefit to 
>society, it is something the copyright owner _owns_ and that's what it 
>is there for.

Oh, not here. US Constitution, Article I, Section 8: "The Congress shall
have power [...] To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by
securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to
their respective writings and discoveries."

Dennis





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Re: [Finale] O.T. Self publishing issues

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 08:39 PM 12/3/06 -0800, Bruce E. Clausen wrote:
>I took a few minutes to visit the ISMN website (www.ismn-international.org) 
>and found that it is relatively inexpensive to obtain an ISMN (although they 
>have to be ordered in bulk).  If having such a number does indeed increase 
>one's likelihood of distribution it should make sense to get one.  How do 
>you all feel about the pros and cons here?

I see that Bowker in the US (the company that issues ISBNs) has only been
issuing ISMNs for four years. That could account for the slowness of their
adoption. I tried to search Amazon for ISMNs, but no luck, so I sent an
email to their publisher service department asking if they did or will
provide ISMN support. I'll report back. 

I'm a big fan of online sourcing, particularly since I'm not near a city.
There's no music store of any quality closer than a four-hour drive.

Dennis





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Re: [Finale] O.T. Self publishing issues

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 05:30 PM 12/1/06 -0500, Andrew Stiller wrote:
>For self-publishing, you mostly want to get the attention of the two 
>big distributors, Theodore Front Musical Literature and J. W. Pepper 
>and Son.

There's music on Amazon. Do you think ultimately it's more viable than the
old-school distributors? I have never received any sort of mailing (virtual
or physical) from any music publisher or distributor except Oxford, but I
get lots of both from book and CD distributors.

Dennis


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Re: [Finale] O.T. Self publishing issues

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

Kim has actually asked this question before, I think. :)

At 11:27 AM 12/1/06 -0500, John Howell wrote:
>I have NEVER seen an ISBN number on any piece of music.  That isn't 
>how it's sold, unless I am very much behind the times.

I'm actually considering using ISBN or UPC for the future, since I've used
them for books and CDs. Music is hard to find (as the Orchestra List shows
sometimes!), so one or the other would make it easier -- probably the ISBN
since it is a bound publication that's not a serial. Why not? Any reason
militate against ISBN for music?

>It sounds very much like a Vanity Press operation, and something to 
>be avoided.  Making you pay for a proof copy is a dead giveaway, in 
>my eyes.

Lulu has a good reputation, and the proof copy is a way of keeping folks
from creating a full-color one-off book for the family and getting the one
copy the want for free (Lulu does a lot of family photo books). I've
described my experiences with another such POD publisher, and it was very
positive. I wrote:

I have used on-demand printing for this book, which I edited and designed:
  http://www.amazon.com/Marching-Browns-Ghost-Civil-Rights/dp/0965932621/

It wasn't Lulu, which was founded two years after the book was published.
It was actually just a print-on-demand printer (not publisher, since we
already had one). It was a very straightforward process, and I'm sure it
has gotten even simpler with 'full-service' POD publishers. I provided two
files as PDFs, the cover and the body, and specified the trade paperback
size. They sent one copy for approval, then a crate of books followed.

Lightning Source in Tennessee. https://www.lightningsource.com/


Dennis



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Re: [Finale] OT video converter

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 12:07 PM 11/29/06 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Does anyone know of a free (freeware), downloadable program to convert WMV  
>and AVI files to MPEG files. (Preferable which you've used and know  to work)
>I've Googled and downloaded several which turned out to be a) trial
versions 
>of payable programs which have limitations, or b) don't work.

You didn't mention which platform. Did you try this one? 
  http://www.bytescout.com/avitompegscout.html
It works here, and it's free.

The freeware versions of movie format converters seem to be in short
supply, which I suspect is a consequence of patents (I had to buy a
separate MPEG2 module in the first version of Sony's low-end version of
Vegas).

Dennis



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Re: [Finale] Importing files

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 03:19 PM 11/27/06 -0500, Aaron Sherber wrote:
>It depends what you want people to do with it. If you want them to 
>listen to it, it needs to be an audio file. If you want them to open 
>it in Finale, it needs to be a Finale file. If you want them just to 
>look at it and print it, it can be a PDF. In other words, it should 
>be in whatever format you would put it in if you were emailing it to 
>someone, or burning it to a CD to give to them.

Exactly.

Perhaps a page from my online catalog would help show the various formats.
Here's one:
   http://maltedmedia.com/people/bathory/cat-large.html

(My Finale files were all ETF and zipped. The ETF format is no longer
necessary.)

Dennis






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Re: [Finale] Re:OT: historical perspective

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 12:33 PM 11/24/06 -0500, Phil Daley wrote:
>At 08:00 AM 11/24/2006, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
>
> >Listen to CNN or especially Fox News morning shows.
>
>Wait  . . . People actually listen to that stuff???  They are so 
>biased, I can't bear to hear it.

I like new background patter when I'm working, and bad commercials (Head
On, Billy Mays, Classical 100, Il Divo...). When CNN does one of its human
interest stories, I switch to Fox for a dose of really incompetent
language. :)

Dennis



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Re: [Finale] Re: Egad!!!

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 12:30 AM 11/20/06 +0100, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>crap, got carried away and answered more than you asked... well, 
>maybe some of it is useful...

Yes indeed. The idea of using measures for the time was a pretty nifty
idea. Functional fixedness got to me!

The rest of it is familiar; it was 'inverting' timeline and music measure
concept that I couldn't squeeze out of my mind.

And when we cross paths, the bottle of whiskey is yours!

D







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Re: [Finale] Re: Egad!!!

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 10:15 AM 11/19/06 -0800, Carl Dershem wrote:
>Lifetimes could be spent on 
>what is, essentially, a practical joke.

Like the Rohonczi Codex? http://www.dacia.org/codex/original/original.html

In any case, I was about to start setting one of my own old pieces 
from 1972, which finally got premiered in 2003. It's time to work on 
it and turn it into a more handsome example than the manuscript that 
I've been using. None of it should give me any particular trouble, but 
I'm really curious (jef, are you there?) if there's a straightforward way 
of setting the timeline that parallels the staves at the top and bottom. 
It has a fixed spacing (27 seconds per system).

Here's where it is:
http://maltedmedia.com/people/bathory/music/pdf/construction-trombones.pdf

Ideas welcome. No hurry. I need to finish it before the Chamber 
Music America convention in January.

Dennis






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Re: [Finale] Video files - VERY off topic

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

Here's more on those standards & correction:
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Book_%28audio_CD_standard%29
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-Interleaved_Reed-Solomon_Coding

Dennis


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Re: [Finale] Video files - VERY off topic

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 07:05 PM 11/16/06 -0500, David W. Fenton wrote:
>I believe this is completely incorrect. The only exceptions would be 
>if the CD's data were not written cleanly or if the CD drive reading 
>the disk were misaligned or something.
>It's digital data. Data is data, a sieries of 0s and 1s. The only 
>difference is what software is used to interpret the data (i.e., 
>Finale files are 0s and 1s, but Microsoft Word doesn't know what to 
>do with them).

Not quite. Data may be written correctly, but the means of recovery are not
quite so simple as with computer data. Errors have to be recovered. A CD is
written as a stream, without the level of sync or file-correction
information that data files have. It has enough error correction to make
partial audio reconstruction possible even if it's incomplete. Errors are
covered or muted.

>Do you know about EAC, Exact Audio Copy?

The problem is explained on the EAC website in some detail.
http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/eac3.html

Dennis


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Re: [Finale] Copyright Issue

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 01:05 PM 11/15/06 -0500, dhbailey wrote:
>But the wide availability of the works in HAM is what's in question.  If 
>you can find them in publications which predate 1923 you're all set. 

The good part about HAM is that the sources are fully documented in the
detailed descriptive commentary, including titles, pages, dates and
locations, along with a section of texts and translations.

The editorial content in Volume I is very high in bringing it into modern
notation. A comparison with other editions (one piece I researched a few
decades ago was Bernart de Ventadorn's "Be m'an perdut") reveals the
differences in editorial judgment when dealing with pitch and temporal
relationships. Arrangements made from HAM would often be obvious based on
their choices.

Though I doubt the authors had any intention of restricting its use, by
grabbing a copy of the source and using the modern edition as a
'translation' of that original notation (just as one relies on translations
of text to aid in setting original languages), one could build an
arrangement of the music -- perhaps even a better re-conception of the
original material with the source at hand.

Thousands and thousands of performances have been done from the HAM
edition, and recordings as well. How many of the sets of performance
materials were further transcriptions? How many requested permission? How
many were pursued? Given the state of copyright law sixty years after the
first edition (at least my copy shows the first edition to have been 1946),
it's not clear what the authors might have done today in pursuing 'violators'.

The arrival of (and one hope's the subsequent case law from) Creative
Commons copyright may be an interim approach until the intellectual
property madness subsides.

Dennis







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Re: [Finale] Clients Requesting Finale Files

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 12:30 PM 11/13/06 -0800, Hamilton Greg wrote:
>I recently had a client ask for the Finale files for many of his  
>chamber works I had prepared. It's typically not my policy to release  
>the original files. I'm wondering what other professional copyist/ 
>engravers are doing when faced with the same dilemma?

I came in late to this (amazing what goes on when one is out shopping for
floor tile and countertops). Most of my relatively few clients don't want
the files, but one does.

My largest objection is the amount of additional time it takes to deal with
amateur Finale users mucking about in the files and then sending them back
to be fixed. The one client who uses the files is a bit clumsy with them.
He also uses only 'basic' Finale, meaning none of the special fonts that I
use (including ones I've created) can be put in the score. This increases
my own time-on-project.

However, despite the fact that only one of my clients wants the files, I
always send them. I think a safe archive of artistic work is more important
than any hypothetical loss of business.

Dennis






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Re: [Finale] Matching new to old

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 11:37 AM 11/13/06 -0500, John Howell wrote:
>Dennis:  I'm assuming that in spite of wanting to keep the layout the 
>same, the composer will make it clear which edition is the corrected 
>edition, right?  (In which case I can't quite see the value of 
>following the old layout, but the client is the client.)

A good point for major new editions. In this case, the new edition has very
few musical corrections and is largely cosmetic, with textual explanations
and other clarifications made. A few incorrectly transcribed notes and a
few missing ties are fixed.

If it's kept with the same layout, those who own older copies can still use
them and mark them up from the new edition without springing for a whole
new set for the cast. All the performance markings on the older copies
don't have to be copied over.

I think he largely wants a final clear edition, as it's his major work with
some attention again in recent years.

Dennis




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Re: [Finale] Matching new to old

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 04:46 PM 11/13/06 +0100, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
>Here is how I would do this. Create the required number of measures, but 
>leave them totally empty. Lock the required number of measures per 
>system, but don't worry about the page layout otherwise. Then enter the 
>music. Finally optimize. It might be better to just optimize without 
>hiding any staves, and use TGTools to do the final optimization (Staff 
>list manager).

That sounds good, too. And thanks for the TGTools reminder. That's one of
the features I always forget about.

It seems like I'm more concerned than I needed to be (so far).

Dennis



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Re: [Finale] Matching new to old

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 06:48 AM 11/13/06 -0800, Richard Yates wrote:
>Why not use your usual way? If you enter the musical content in Scroll View
>then the layout is immaterial to that task whether done before or after.

Richard,

My concern is a train wreck in post-facto getting the measures to lay out
properly and optimize the score without a constant jockeying back and forth
to make it fit.

You think it would be just as hard to lay it out first than lay it out
later? I want to avoid a nightmare 100 pages into this thing with page
breaks, scene changes, interior titles, etc. Though I'd never done it this
way, somehow having a pre-organized blank page to fill in seemed more
efficient for this sort of match-the-old-version project. Am I imagining a
problem that doesn't really exist?

Thanks,
Dennis






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[Finale] Matching new to old

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

Hi all,

I have a workflow question.

The first act of an opera has just arrived, 157 pages, piano-vocal. The
composer has taken back the opera from the publisher, and will be
re-issuing a corrected version. The original version was published from a
hand-inked copy (done in multiple hands) in 1980.

Because of existing copies in the field, the composer (a regular client)
wants the new edition to match the old one exactly in pagination and
measure placement on the pages and systems, numbering, etc. The densest
portion of the score has two pianos and five voices, and there are random
places with text blocks and white space.

I'm not sure how to approach the work process. Were I working from scratch,
I'd just use my ordinary sequence of enter, edit, adjust pages, optimize
and lock. But to match an existing score, the optimization and locking are
already in place, so to speak.

Maybe there's a Finale trick for doing this (I'm using 2K6).

The process I'm thinking about would add all the measures first, place a
dummy note (rather than a 'real' rest, which is indistinguishable from an
empty-measure rest) in all the measures that will eventually have content,
then jockey the measures along to their proper locations, lock the
measures, and optimize the score. Then I'd fill in the musical content.

Will this work? Is there a better way? Two more acts will be coming, so I'd
like to make this as smooth as possible to get done by year's end.

(The composer also wants to make sections not present in the recording with
grey brackets, but that's a problem for another time, I think.)

Thanks,
Dennis






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Re: [Finale] TAN: LP-->CD

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 04:00 PM 11/10/06 +0100, dc wrote:
>There's also a big difference between audio CDs and data CDs. I've often 
>seen audio CDs readable on one machine and full of errors on another.

Audio CDs do not have the error-correction of data CDs; they were created
to play back fairly accurately, with ways of managing errors in real time
playback. There's fairly good explanation at the Exact Audio Copy site
(http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/)

>And then, if a data CD is declared unreadable, isn't there any specialized 
>software that allows to salvage at least part of its content?

Lots of it. I use IsoBuster (http://www.isobuster.com/), but recovery
software is dependent on the firmware in the drive. The firmware interposes
itself between software/OS and disk, and limits options. Think of it as
having someone else always drive your car while you instruct them from the
back seat. :)

Dennis




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Re: [Finale] TAN: LP-->CD

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 06:33 AM 11/10/06 -0800, ThomaStudios wrote:
>I have experienced the same as Johannes.  I have several, out of  
>hundreds, of CD-Rs with backup files for clients.  I can recall at  
>least a half dozen times where I've gone back to retrieve something,  
>and the disc wound NOT mount or would not read the files.

You can also blame the drive for this. The life of CD and DVD drives (2,000
optimal hours of use) is less than the life of CD-Rs. Lasers are under
stress and although modern drives compensate for fading lasers, they become
decreasingly able to read disks burned (particularly on other machines).
The tolerances are tight when drives are new, especially with corners cut
to keep prices low.

But even new drives can cause problems in an unfavorable software
environment. I have a friend with a week-old computer that won't read the
data disks so he can load his older materials. The company's on-site
service replaced the drive with no luck. Disks burned on the new machine
read fine. Commercial disks read fine. And the older disks will read on any
of my machines and on any of his work machines, regardless of operating
system and drive brand. So I'll be making a trek there tomorrow to solve
the problem -- but it's already clear that this failure isn't due to the
CD-Rs, but some other incompatibility.

Though I also keep multiple backups (now -- it wasn't the case six or seven
years ago), failures can be attributed to more than the CD-Rs themselves.
And any discussion of readability assumes that burning the CD-R is being
done verify and compare modes, along with post-burn readback on another
machine. Not running verify/compare and readback is asking for trouble.

Dennis





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Re: [Finale] Backup Reliability (was TAN: LP-->CD)

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 08:42 AM 11/10/06 -0500, Leigh Daniels wrote:
>"Trust--but verify.""

Funny. That's the title of my 2003 article on tethered programs.
(http://maltedmedia.com/books/papers/sm-copyp.html)  Guess we both loved
that old guy's phrase... :)

And I use a similar multiple-backup method to yours.

Doesn't make a doggone bit of difference when the data changes with
different programs and operating systems, though. My blog yesterday
(http://maltedmedia.com/people/bathory/waam-20061109.html) discussed an
oncoming cultural dark ages of data loss.

Dennis





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Re: [Finale] TAN: LP-->CD

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 08:16 PM 11/9/06 +0100, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
>Just one word of caution: CD-Rs are not a very long-lasting backup 
>medium, and once they go they are gone for good. I am not exactly sure 
>what the answer is, does anyone know a backup medium which will last 
>longer? CDs tend to fail frequently after about two years. What I would 
>hope for is at least 20, better 50 or 100 years.

Then you have no hope. :)

Two years? The Dutch CDR test showed deterioration beginning at about two
years for CDRs stored in haphazard conditions. My oldest CDRs are just
reaching ten years without a problem showing up in regular random checks of
the different brands that I've used. They are carefully stored, however,
and there are always two copies on two different brands, plus now a hard
drive backup (since the price of hard drives has fallen so much -- $110 for
a 250GB external USB2 drive at Staples this week).

I'm afraid that if long-term storage is your goal, you will have to go
through a continual transfer process to latter-day media. It's probably
time to update this 2002 article, but the info is still important to keep
in mind: http://maltedmedia.com/books/papers/sl-archv.html

Dennis



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Re: [Finale] TAN: LP-->CD

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 12:54 PM 11/9/06 -0500, Andrew Stiller wrote:
>I feel an increasing need to digitally back up key parts of my 
>extensive LP collection. Can anyone suggest a cheap way to get these 
>analog sounds into my computer &/or directly onto a CD?

If you already have a computer with a reasonable stereo input sound card, a
turntable, and amp with phono preamp, you have the basics. You can feed the
line output of the preamp to the sound card, record signal into freeware
like Audacity, and burn the resulting file using whatever software was
bundled with your CD burner. Assuming you already have the basics, that's
the "free" method.

You can also check out the master of cheap stuff, Drew Kaplan:
  http://www.dak.com/Reviews/2020Story.cfm

For less than cheap, you can get a digital turntable (such as a Stanton), a
soundcard with digital input, then clean up the pops & clicks & rumble with
software such as Adobe Audition, and from there create a nicely cued CDs.
The investment is $500-$750, higher if you get a really nice cartridge for
the turntable. The advantage is that you can record the LPs at high
sampling rates & bit depth, and have data files to save for future better
cleanups.

Dennis



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Re: [Finale] OT Web page sites

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 10:11 AM 11/9/06 -0500, Gerald Berg wrote:
>I am embarking on building my own web page.  Currently I am on CityMax 
>which charges 20 bucks a month with 50 MB of storage -- each additional 
>10MB costs another buck a month.  How do these prices compare with you 
>all?

I use Pair Networks (http://pair.com/). They are one of the most reliable
web hosts with tiers of service depending on your needs. I have a dedicated
server for $100/month with 80GB space and 250GB/month downloads. They
presently host 190,000 websites. Their main page has a link to their
various services.

If you're doing anything on which you depend for business, you need
reliability. Pair is on several backbones and has insane reliability. I've
been a customer for nine years, and was down once for a few hours when they
moved the entire building to a new location. Other than that, downtime is
occasional and only for major upgrades; I asked for a new hard drive, and
it was in place and running in 10 minutes. (I just checked. The server has
been up without interruption for 570 days.)

The system is Unix-based and user-driven (with active and comprehensive
newsgroups), but if you expect a kind of automated web-building system, you
won't find it there.

Other services are good, but I trust folks who have an actual telephone
number answered by a real person, and an "urgent" email system that
actually works. :)

You know that this cynic doesn't usually wax enthusiastic about a product
or service, but Pair Networks is a very rare exception.

Dennis








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Re: [Finale] Perc. Sounds (OT)

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 06:21 AM 11/6/06 -0500, dhbailey wrote:
>the Light 
>Cavalry Overture is very evocative of horses (certainly for those of us 
>who don't ride horses) in it's 6/8 section which has this rhythm: 2 
>16th-note pickup into a measure built of 
>8th-note/8th-rest/2-16th-notes/8th-note/8th-rest/2-16th-notes/ which is 
>repeated over and over.  The 2 16th pickups and the final 2 16ths 
>(pickups into the next measure) are a rising melodic line while the 2 
>16th-notes at the end of the first group are repeated on the same pitch.

Yes, that's the gallop rhythm, which is a clustered group of four 
sounding footfalls closely associated as three to the ear in the 
rhythm you illustrate. At a moderate gallop it sounds like 6/8. I'd 
guess it's the most familiar horse imitation (aside from the walk in 
"Grand Canyon Suite") and gets done with inverted paper cups at 
family dinner tables. :)

The article on horse gaits (Introduction to Gait Analysis) is on line:
http://cvm.msu.edu/Dressage/Upload/Clayton%20archives%20for%20WWW/USDF_Dec01.pdf
The reference to rhythms and beats is to the arrangement of 
footfalls, and the diagrams show how it works. The gallop is 
not part of dressage, so it's only briefly mentioned in the article
... as a 4-beat rhythm.

None of this is really helpful to the original question, though, 
which has to do with the layperson's perception of a horsey sound.

(One of my other hats is very, very occasionally writing dressage 
music -- not about horse gaits, but for them. Most riders like to 
pull from established tunes, so http://equestrianmusic.com/ gets 
very few customers. It's a pain to write for canter, but walk and 
trot aren't hard. The nasty stuff is the piaffe and passage, which 
is a real test of rhythm in the horse-ride combination.)

Dennis





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Re: [Finale] Perc. Sounds (OT)

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 05:53 PM 11/5/06 -0800, Dean M. Estabrook wrote:
>do horses amble in three-four ..it's been a long time since I've  
>ridden?

The canter is considered a three-beat stride. From 'Introduction to Gait
Analysis': "The three beats of the canter are closely spaced in time, but
the third beat is followed by a longer interval that includes the airborne
phase before the first beat of the next stride."

Horse people always call it three beats, and my equestrienne wife and I
always get into a you-anal-compulsive/you-non-musician argument about it. :)

Dennis




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Re: [Finale] Blue theme

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 10:01 PM 11/2/06 -0500, Cecil Rigby wrote:
>Dennis, have you checked  http://www.adtunes.com/

Thanks, Cecil. I hadn't seen adtunes, but did look after your reference.
I'm not the only one with the question, apparently, and unless the it's a
tango-like arrangement of one of the songs I don't know, the stuff I've
found so far doesn't match.

At 06:40 PM 11/2/06 -0800, Chuck Israels wrote:
>I haven't heard this, but I will keep my ears open.  There should be  
>enough of us on this list so that someone might stumble across the ad  
>and either know the piece or be able to offer an educated opinion on  
>its origin.

Thanks, Chuck. There's nothing urgent, just that maddening feeling I should
know the piece. 

Dennis



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[Finale] Blue theme

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

Hi all,

Is there an online directory of television and commercial theme music? My
searches always dead-end.

I've been wondering for some time if the tango-like theme for the American
Express Blue commercials is a 'real' piece of composed for the commercial.
If it's a 'real' piece, is it used anywhere else? I've found the ad agency
site (Ogilvy) but it doesn't say.

Dennis







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Re: [Finale] TAN: Just how good Google really is....

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 09:50 PM 10/31/06 -0600, Noel Stoutenburg wrote:
>They will police the website, and the cost will be ten to twenty 
>dollars, instead of the 125 that the attorney is going to charge.  
>Alternatively, if one is a member of a PRO (ASCAP, BMI, or SESAC) one 
>can report this to the licensing department, and let the licensing 
>department handle it

This assumes it's even in the U.S. There are dozens of sites re-"hosting"
my music, but they're all offshore, mostly in Korea and China. Most of the
pieces seem to be taken for their titles rather than content, based on the
context (as much as I can read). The same happens with my photographs of
the Blood Countess castle and artifacts in Slovakia. (At least the
production companies get permission and pay a few dollars.)

Dennis



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Re: [Finale] TAN: Just how good Google really is....

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 10:22 AM 10/31/06 -0600, Noel Stoutenburg wrote:
>doesn't seem to make a hit on the first few pages, anyway, so it looks 
>unlikely that someone will email me asking where I saw it, and where 
>they can get a copy.

Oh, good. Then I'll be certain to mention it in tonight's blog, and
reference you as the place to ask for a copy! (No, really, I won't.)

D



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Re: [Finale] TAN: Just how good Google really is....

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 02:00 AM 10/31/06 -0600, Noel Stoutenburg wrote:
>search?hl=en&q=Akareshnikovitzky+and+Herzenvortragengruber

Why exactly were you looking? :)  Self-googling?

Dennis





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Re: [Finale] O.T. Czech libraries and obtaining copies of manuscripts

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 10:33 AM 10/29/06 -0500, Martin Banner wrote:
>I have found sometimes that I am unable to receive emails from various 
>people/libraries in Europe. I have found this to be especially true 
>with Italy, although I am not sure why this is a problem. I would hate 
>to be paranoid and say that, because of security measures put in place 
>after 9/11 in this country, various emails sent from overseas are 
>looked at by authorities in the US. I must say that prior to 9/11, I 
>never had any problems receiving emails from anyone or anywhere outside 
>the US.

Though I'm always eager to join a conspiracy theory, this time it might
just be the consequence of your ISP's spam filters.

For example, my mail server automatically discards about 25,000 pieces of
spam a day. About 150 get through. My filtering is only moderate because I
need emails from IP blocks that some ISPs block entirely because these
blocks serve out so much spam. Many spam servers are in China, Korea,
Russia, and eastern Europe. Various IP blocks are listed in Spamcop,
Spamhaus, etc., and if they're on the list and your ISP subscribes to the
list, then email from addresses in those blocks won't get through either.

If you have access to mail server whose filtering you can control, you
might set up an unpublished and unfiltered email address that you use just
for those circumstances.

If you don't have access to a mail server, Gmail has strong filters, but I
think they learn from the spam you get. You might try a Gmail address, and
just never publish it anywhere.

Dennis





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[Finale] Failed to load VST.DLL

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

Hi all,

"Failed to load VST DLL. VST services are unavailable."

This message appeared after installing the MusicXML full version, and
MusicXML wouldn't work. It went away when I uninstalled it, but so did
MusicXML.

I just installed the latest Patterson plugins and got the same message. The
plugins appear to work, but I haven't tested them all.

Anybody know what this references? And where to get the VST.DLL file? (All
my regular VSTs work with other programs such as Sonar and AudioMulch.)

Finale 2K6, Win98SE.

Thanks,
Dennis



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Re: [Finale] Re: Piano/Vocal [was a lot of things]

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 10:07 AM 10/24/06 +0100, Ken Moore wrote:
>Comrie seemed to think (c.1940) that they were an 
>objectionable American innovation.  I am interested in the suggestion 
>that they were originally intended for titles.  Publishers of books of 
>mathematical tables would presumably want to use the smallest characters 
>that were still legible enough not to cause eye-strain or misreading.

Bringhurst identifies the titling numerical font for numbers in 1788, as
part of a rising merchant class.

Dennis


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Re: [Finale] Re: Piano/Vocal [was a lot of things]

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 04:09 PM 10/23/06 -0500, Noel Stoutenburg wrote:
>I am not prepared to deny that there may have been typefaces in which 
>the fonts contained proportional width numerals, though these do not 
>appear to have been standard

I mentioned the Bringhurst "Elements of Typographic Style" the other day.
He points out that there are several sets of numbers in various
combinations: text numbers (some fonts have ascenders and descenders),
titling numbers (equal height characters), italics of both, and tabular
figures of all. The latter dominate in computer fonts, and he points out
that kerning tables are essential when forced to use them within text.

Also, the US Government Printing Office 1969 type specimen book (one of the
last editions to include metal fonts) shows the forms Bringhurst points
out, particularly the different text and titling numbers.

Dennis


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Re: [Finale] Multimeasure rests problem

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 04:35 PM 10/23/06 -0400, dhbailey wrote:
>That's the part which baffles me -- when I see a single rest in an 
>otherwise empty measure I assume it's the full measure since there's 
>nothing else to play.

Yes, I agree. It seems this complaint may be a false expectation of
specificity, unless it's a conscious imitation of an earlier style. An
empty measure may as well contain no rest (some composers do that) or
simply white space (others do that). If a notational style is being
emulated, sure, include the funky rests.

But I actually remember being mocked by the brass players in an ensemble
when I used larger rest values early in my copying life. I was told to
'just write a doggone (euphemized) whole rest in the measure, what are we,
stupid?' 

To use value-specific rests in an empty measure is redundant to the
existing time signature. For that matter, a time signature is redundant if
the consideration is merely to play the patterns of notes as written.
Musicians are notoriously terrible at counting, but not that bad!

Dennis





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Re: [Finale] Nucular football?

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

At 03:30 PM 10/19/06 -0400, Phil Daley wrote:
>How about Bow-cher when it's really Bou-chez. (Boucher).

Don't even bother with names. :) Featherstonehaugh?

Or even place names. In Vermont, our "Calais" is callous, "Barre" is barry,
and "Montpelier" is muntpilyur. A conscious disconnection with
French-Canadian culture some 200 years ago.

Dennis





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