Re: [Goanet] Rupee signs and Indians
Is Rajan Portuguese? Cheers, Santosh --- On Sun, 7/18/10, Rajan P. Parrikar parri...@yahoo.com wrote: Gee, I guess after the invention of zero the next great invention of Indians is the rupee sign. Great work, Indians. We are all so proud of you. r
Re: [Goanet] Rupee signs and Indians
Is Admin Noronha fabricating as usual again? Nobody said being Portuguese equals anti-India. The question was asked because some Goans are or consider themselves Portuguese. The question was prompted by the following remark of Rajan: Great work, Indians. We are all so proud of you. One who recognized that he was an Indian would not have referred to his compatriots as you. Cheers, Santosh --- On Mon, 7/19/10, Frederick Noronha fredericknoro...@gmail.com wrote: Is Portuguese = anti-India? That equation might have held till 1961, or even till 1974 (if we're referring to those who controlled the Portuguese State till the carnations came along.) FN
Re: [Goanet] Cross Pollination
--- On Mon, 7/19/10, Jim Fernandes amigo...@att.net wrote: It is not the figment of my imagination, but a click on the below URL might help Mr Helekar to refresh his neurons with GoaNet rules: http://goanet.org/modules.php?op=modloadname=Newsfile=articlesid=9 Once again, Shri Fernandes is spouting nonsense from his imagination rather than what is displayed in black and white on the above Goanet rules page. There is no Goanet rule which prevents a Goanetter from posting elsewhere or ccing to a Goanetter anything that is first posted on Goanet. There is no Goanet rule which requires that permission be asked of a Goanetter to post or cc a response to him elsewhere. Admin Noronha himself posts a lot of his Goanet material in other Goan forums such as Goa Research Net and Secular Goa forums, and his sundry blogs and websites. So do many other Goanetters. For example, here is one Noronha emission on Goanet: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-December/171509.html Here is a cross post of the same drivel on Goa Research Net: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goa-research-net/message/3962 So the real question becomes: Who broke the rules first? Indeed, the answer to this question is it is Shri Fernandes, not me, who broke the rules and still continues to break them. Here is the rule that he broke previously: Do not engage in personal attacks Goanet Rule Please note below that he continues to break it even now: I don't understand what this unofficial GoaNet side kick Josephine AKA Bahama Mama is getting excited about. This joker with his pea sized brain cannot compreshend the simple logic behind the use of my language on their list. I classify pricks like these, as natures freaks. Shri Jim Fernandes abusing another Goanetter The foul language above also breaks the following Goanet rule: Do not use foul, offensive or abusive language. Maintain a level of decency and respect to fellow Goanetters at all times. Goanet Rule Cheers, Santosh --- On Mon, 7/19/10, Jim Fernandes amigo...@att.net wrote: OK - So I am back fresh from my short vacation and ready to skin Mr Helekar ... :) In my humble opinion, GoaNet admin is doing a fantastic job. Folks like Fred and Bosco (and possibly more people) are putting in countless hours, to ensure the network is running as smooth as possible. While hardly anybody ever thanks them for their FREE work, all one usually finds is a constant criticism of the admin team - and Mr Helekar is no exception. All they need to do now is to enforce GoaNet rules uniformly and kick out garbage from this sane network of Goans. Mr Helekar is conveniently leading us to believe that he is either very naive or that he is genuinely ignorant. To cover his misdeeds, Mr Helekar is now using warped logic to make his point. There is a saying, You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. In Mr Helekars terms, this saying would amount to If you can lead it to water and make it drink - it must be a horse!. Wow!!! Cross posting of GoaNet debates has been dis-allowed for years. I am not exactly sure of when the rules were made (Please check with Herman / GoaNet admin team), but one used to get a copy of the rules whenever he/she first subscribed to GoaNet. It is not the figment of my imagination, but a click on the below URL might help Mr Helekar to refresh his neurons with GoaNet rules: http://goanet.org/modules.php?op=modloadname=Newsfile=articlesid=9 Mr Helekar cross posted my response to an on-going GoaNet debate to an outside entity. This is a clear violation of GoaNet rules. That entity harvested my email address to post totally unrelated messages back to me. When I politely requested the members of this entity to kindly remove me from their list, at least one person refused to take my email address out. I pleaded to remove my email ID from their list both privately and publicly - not once or twice - but several times - with no luck. Since nothing worked, I finally resorted to using what I call 'third degree French'. If I am forced to put up with their crap, then the members of this outside entity better get used to mine - its as simple as that. I never gave Mr Helekar permission to post my response on GoaNet to an outside entity to begin with. So the real question becomes: Who broke the rules first? By the time I got back from my vacation, it was a pleasant surprise that I am finally out of their list! A Side Note To The Side Kick: I don't understand what this unofficial GoaNet side kick Josephine AKA Bahama Mama is getting excited about. This joker with his pea sized brain cannot compreshend the simple logic behind the use of my language on their list. I classify pricks like these, as natures freaks. Jim F New York
Re: [Goanet] Cross Pollination
Shri Fernandes, It is clear that you are not able to quote a single Goanet rule which explicitly states that I cannot post my Goanet post anywhere else, nor that I have to ask your permission to do it, as you claimed. So now you are resorting to this kabuki dance of asking me to search for key words. Any sensible person knows that for Goanet to call something a cross post it has to be posted somewhere else before. A response that is first posted on Goanet is not a cross post by definition. It may be a cross post later on in some other forum if it is posted there. That forum can then reject it as a cross post if it wants. So I will say this again one more time. I have every right to post or cc a response to your nonsense anywhere I want. There is nothing you can do about it, nor anyone else. If you abuse me in response, it is you who will be thrown out of Goanet for breaking the rules, not me. Cheers, Santosh --- On Mon, 7/19/10, Jim Fernandes amigo...@att.net wrote: Senhor Helekar, This is basically my point - you are conveniently omitting pieces of GoaNet rules to suit your argument. I am not into spoon feeding, but will make exception for senhor Helekars sake: Please search for the key word cross posts in GoaNet rules and you will see what I mean by my assertion. Please check whether GoaNet dis-allows cross posts. If others are cross-posting your responses you have a right to take up your case. You have NO right to cross-post mine. In the same vein when I see someone or some entity mis-using my email ID to publicly claim that I am in their mailing list, I reserve the right to use any language I want - to pay back - specially if they refuse to remove my ID from their list. Had you not cross-posted my GoaNet email to your private list, you and your Old Boy Network, you would have saved yourself a lot of grief. Bahama Mama got my rebuke because he asked for it :) Better get used to my language if you decide to break GoaNet rules to post my GoaNet messages to other lists. I am going haunt you even in your dreams :) You have no argument to challenge my response post-facto. You broke the rule first - therefore whatever follows is a consequence of your initiative. If you think I broke GoaNet rule, it is because you broke it first. I am only defending myself. Does that make sense? Jim F New York
Re: [Goanet] Cross Pollination
Shri Fernandes, It looks like you are at a point now that you need some kind of emotional release. Unfortunately, I suspect you are afraid to do this in public. But you have started escalating your abusive behavior to a new level. You have now also graduated to lying about what I said in response to the personal attack that you initiated against me on Goanet. First, here are new examples of your indecent abusive verbiage and name-calling directed at me in continued clear violation of a Goanet rule: Are you visually challenged or brain dead? Shri Jim Fernandes abusing me A looser like senhor Helekar when he realizes he is loosing a debate, he forwards his target's email address to his private list as a punishment, whose at least one member engages in spam. Shri Jim Fernandes abusing me more Second, here is the lie that you are now telling Goanetters about what I said in response to your initial personal attack against me, in violation of another Goanet rule: Some days ago, you claimed GoaNet has no rules whatesoever. Shri Jim Fernandes lying in public about what I said. This is what I actually said in my post some days ago: These bogus rules and etiquettes of yours are a figment of your imagination. Goanet has no such rules. Santosh Helekar referring to the specific fictitious rules and etiquettes that Shri Fernandes was fantasizing about. Please note the phrases bogus rules and etiquettes of yours and no such rules. Please see the following link to my relevant Goanet post: http://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg63983.html Here is Shri Fernandes' statement about these specific fictitious rules to which I referred as such rules: I have posted this topic on GoaNet because the debate started on GoaNet - you took it private to some group you obviously feel comfortable with. This is in clear violation of net etiquette and GoaNet rules. Shri Jim Fernandes fabricating some new non-existent Goanet rules Please see http://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg63982.html The fact that I have always been fully aware of Goanet rules is clear from the following response of mine to Admin Noronha in the same thread immediately after: Instead of sticking to existing Goanet rules, and abiding by them himself, in the first place, while strictly observing the duties of an administrator entrusted with the responsibility of running a mailing list, Admin Noronha is manufacturing bogus controversies. .Santosh Helekar Please see: http://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg64009.html Now, let me address the new canards you are pulling and the empty threats you are making in this public forum, unable to point to a single Goanet rule that explicitly states what you have fabricated from your imagination. Shri Jim Fernandes wrote: What portion of the above rule do you not understand senhor Helekar? The portion of your mentality that drives you to post only a portion of the entire rule. The important main portion of the rule that you conveniently left out of your quote is the following: Do not post spam. Goanet Rule Please see: http://www.goanet.org/modules.php?op=modloadname=Newsfile=articlesid=9 Sensible Goanetters will immediately understand why you deceptively left out this portion. To be fair to you, let me hasten to add that I am not sure if, in your current emotional state, you have managed to deceive yourself, in the first place, as well. But calm, sober and sensible people would have no problem understanding that the above rule, as stated, prohibits the posting of spam only on Goanet, not in any other forum. Goanet has no control over the posting of any of its publicly displayed content in any other private or public forum. Shri Jim Fernandes wrote: Cross posts means anything from GoaNet to the outside lists and vice-versa. This is another figment of your imagination. There is no such statement anywhere in Goanet Rules. The spam rule simply states that members should not post spam on Goanet, and that it treats cross posts posted on it as spam. It has no control over what is posted in other forums subsequently. Please read the rules again: http://www.goanet.org/modules.php?op=modloadname=Newsfile=articlesid=9 Shri Jim Fernandes wrote: You are free to engage in spam, but I'll do what I have to do to shut you down. Shri Fernandes, you are wasting your hot air. Your persistent abuse will invariably lead to a public embarrassment for you. There is nothing you can do to me. Cheers, Santosh --- On Tue, 7/20/10, Jim Fernandes amigo...@att.net wrote: Senhor Helekar, Some days ago, you claimed GoaNet has no rules whatesoever. When I gave you the relevant link, you claimed not seeing the relevant rule there. Are you visually challenged or brain dead? It appears that spoon feeding you with the relevant rule was not enough. Now you want me to sing a lullaby to you, huh? My
Re: [Goanet] Cross Pollination
Since Gilbert has now gotten into this debate, while simultaneously denying that he has no intention of doing it, I would like to ask him the following questions to be able to provide appropriate answers because of my longstanding membership of several Goan internet forums: 1. To which Goan forums is he referring? 2. Why does he call these forums over-the-top? 3. What does he mean by registration of Goan forums? 4. To whom is he referring as the weed or weed(s) planted in these forum? 5. What criteria does he use to classify another human being as a weed? I have no idea why Gilbert thinks one requires courage to answer questions regarding any Goan forum, especially ones that might prove embarrassing to the questioner, in this case, Gilbert himself. But I am hoping that he has the courage to answer mine above. Cheers, Santosh --- On Wed, 7/21/10, Gilbert Lawrence gilbert2...@yahoo.com wrote: I have no intention of getting in this debate. Yet every forum has to be registered under some-body's name. Under whose name are the various over-the-top goan forums registered? After all an individual/ someone had the courage to coin the name and register the forum on yahoo. Please have the courage to own-up to this. Finally, moderated or not, the individual who created the forums is responsible for the forum they created and the weed that they planted among some of us; whose e-mail addresses have been hijacked. Or have the courage to weed-out the weeds. I am having my-fill of tax-free entertainment. Whom should I send my contribution to? Please keep it up. Regards, GL * * * Read Selma Carvalho's warmly-received book *Into the Diaspora Wilderness*, a journey through Goan life in Africa, the Gulf, England and North America ... gripping and well-told real-life stories. See http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ Buy in Goa via Broadway Book Centre, Panjim. Ph 9822488564. * * *
Re: [Goanet] Cross Pollination
--- On Thu, 7/22/10, Jim Fernandes amigo...@att.net wrote: Since I am not able to make you understand simple logic, let me make take this to the REAL next level. Shri Fernandes, Sorry to break this to you, but the fact that you are becoming increasingly desperate to take things to what you consider to be the next level clearly shows that logic is not your forte. There is no logic in anything you have written so far on Goanet, and in especially what you have written below. What you have written below is a tragic escalation of a personal hatred you have developed towards me because your inability to present a logical and sensible argument in support of your imaginary Goanet rules and your public statements. It is an abusive public threat against an individual who has done nothing wrong to you personally. I had merely cced to you and to another Goan Indian forum, my Goanet response to your and Nascimento Caldeira's public criticism of scientific advancement in India on Goanet. In it there was a clear representation that it was my response to your and his public posts. Here is that public response of mine in the very public Goanet and GX archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg63502.html http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GoenchimXapotam/message/28685 Please note that appended to my response are accurate attributions of whatever the two of you had written on Goanet, with these automatically attached phrases: --- On Thu, 7/1/10, Nascy Caldeira nascy...@... wrote: --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Jim Fernandes amigo...@... wrote: So your silly insinuation of copyright violation on my part is nothing but malicious slander, as is the case with delirious threats you are making in this latest post of yours appended below. Following my cc to you and to the other Goan mailing list in question, as soon as you asked not to be cced on reply all responses by me and to me by others, I promptly removed your email address from my subsequent responses. I told you so immediately after you started abusing others on that list with the most filthy and obnoxious language one has ever heard. Not satisfied with doing that you started attacking and abusing me personally in that forum and on Goanet. Now you have reached a state wherein you are overcome with anger and malice towards me. So I am telling you again. There is nothing you can do to me personally. Please feel free to cc my public posts to anybody you want. You will not be violating any copyright or breaking any Goanet rules. Please don't let your imagination tell you otherwise. And, since you forgot to include the email address of the President of the United States and the Prime Minister of India, I am giving their contact information below: http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact http://pmindia.nic.in/write.htm Now, here are my specific responses to the additional nonsense you have written below: You are messing up with the wrong guy. You may be a neuro scientist. In my line of work, we deal with complex mathematical problems and convert them to computer programs - Which makes me think like a chess player. I keep several moves ready much before my opponent makes his. From what I have seen of you on Goanet, the only move you are capable of is publicly abusing people who have done nothing wrong to you, and with whom you merely have some disagreements. If this is what you did in a real chess tournament you would not only be beaten like a drum by your opponent, but kicked out of the tournament by the referees after your very first move. Now go back crying to your Bahama Mama and complain to her that I whacked you yet one more time :) You are once again publicly abusing a fellow Goanetter, and breaking the following Goanet rules: Do not use foul, offensive or abusive language. Do not engage in personal attacks. Please see: http://www.goanet.org/modules.php?op=modloadname=Newsfile=articlesid=9 Lastly, Thanks for providing a link to the announcement that I have received a scientific award from the U.S. National Science Foundation. Cheers, Santosh P.S. BTW, please don't be shy to include your own supervisors and employer(s) on the cc list. You might receive a promotion to a chess grand master or a complex mathematical computer keyboard operator or something. --- On Thu, 7/22/10, Jim Fernandes amigo...@att.net wrote: Senhor Helekar, Since I am not able to make you understand simple logic, let me make take this to the REAL next level. You did the following: 1. A response of mine to an ongoing GoaNet was forwarded by you, to your own little private list and you included my email ID in that list, thereby breaking GoaNet rule first. 2. You and members of that list engaged in what I call SPAM - because at least some folks continued sending me emails, when I categorically requested to remove me from that list. 3. As Fred pointed out in one his emails, I still own copyright of the
Re: [Goanet] Cross Pollination
Adding to what is said below, I am writing this to let you know that another fellow Goanetter named Marshall Mendonza sent me an unsolicited email, adding me to his private cc list of friends and supporters, with the sole purpose of issuing a legal threat against me. He had no business threatening me in this manner, in the company of his community of his allies and political supporters. To provide you with proof of what I am saying here, I kindly request Marshall Mendonza to give me permission to post his email threatening me, drawing support from other members of his gang. Cheers, Santosh --- On Thu, 7/22/10, Marshall Mendonza mmendonz...@gmail.com wrote: Jim Fernandes: The reason I am writing about this on GoaNet is because, a fellow GoaNetter named Santosh Helekar included me in this non-GoaNet related group, when I responded to a thread on GoaNet. He had no business of cross-pollinating debates and then include my email ID, in such external groups, without my permission. Comment: In the good old days of the opium trade this was known as 'being shanghaied' :-) Regards, Marshall * * * The book people are already talking about: Goanetter Selma Carvalho's *Into the Diaspora Wilderness*. Launch on July 25, 2010 at the UK Goan Festival [http://goafest.itpsworld.net] Goa launch next month. See http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ Buy at Broadway's, Panjim [Ph 9822488564] at Rs 295 in Goa. Overseas, postage extra. * * *
Re: [Goanet] Cross Polination
--- On Thu, 7/22/10, Gilbert Lawrence gilbert2...@yahoo.com wrote: Please STOP YOUR SPAM MAIL. Which part to this do you not understand? It is not clear why Gilbert is now shouting on Goanet, after having voluntarily insinuated himself in this thread while paradoxically denying his intention to do so. Why all of a sudden Goanet posts have become spam to him? The absurdity of it is compounded by the fact that he himself continues to generate a lot of this Goanet spam, as is clear from the present example. As far as the rest of his droppings below are concerned, I would like to say the following to him: Gilbert, You have publicly derided on Goanet some human beings in other Goan forums as weeds. These non-Goanetters have the right to know that you are abusing them behind their backs. So please take responsibility for your actions and answer my questions. I would like to know which Goan forums these are, and who these weeds are, that you are abusing on Goanet. I want to make sure your two posts in this thread appear in all those forums, and the people whom you refer to as the weeds get a chance to respond to your abuse. My answers to your questions are interspersed below: Why did you cross-post my post on this thread to one other forum and not all the others to which you belong? I think you are disoriented. I did not cross-post your post to any forum. I initiated an original response to your post in this forum. I also cced my response to you and to some Goans, among whom are non-Goanetters, and others who do not receive emails from any Goan internet forum in their inbox, as far as I know. Here is the link of my response to your post in the Goanet archives: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2010-July/196370.html I will post my responses to your posts in all other Goan forums, as soon as you answer the following questions of mine regarding those forums: 1. To which Goan forums are you referring as being over-the-top? 2. Why do you call these forums over-the-top? 3. Whom are you abusing as the weed or weed(s) planted in those forums? 4. What criteria do you use to classify another human being as a weed? Please ONCE AGAIN, let us know which of these multiple forums did you put together or are registered in your name. Once again, please tell me what you mean by put together and registered in my name. Let me reiterate for the third or fourth time that I have helped set up two Goan public forums - Goenchim Xapotam and Amchea Goencarancheo Dhirio. I have posted brief descriptions about them on Goanet recently. Here is the link to my post in the Goanet archives: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2010-July/195881.html Cheers, Santosh --- On Thu, 7/22/10, Gilbert Lawrence gilbert2...@yahoo.com wrote: .. Once again you are cross-posting to start another ring-ma-roll. Unless this is your method of informing others to stop being weeds. * * * The book people are already talking about: Goanetter Selma Carvalho's *Into the Diaspora Wilderness*. Launch on July 25, 2010 at the UK Goan Festival [http://goafest.itpsworld.net] Goa launch next month. See http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ Buy at Broadway's, Panjim [Ph 9822488564] at Rs 295 in Goa. Overseas, postage extra. * * *
Re: [Goanet] All Religions for Human Integral Development
--- On Fri, 7/23/10, U. G. Barad dr.udayba...@gmail.com wrote: Under the circumstances, I wonder if there is any need for the Vatican to continue with a programme of conversion that they are undertaking. Peaceful persuasion and conversion of minds is a freedom that every human being and every institution enjoys in a secular democracy. It is the basis of all education. Cheers, Santosh * * * IS YOURS one of the stories of Goans on board the S.S. Dwarka, or at the Strait of Hormuz, Basra or Bahrain, Dubai, Swindon, Mombasa, Poona or Rangoon? Selma Carvalho's new book *Into the Diaspora Wilderness* docks at many other ports. Get your copy from Broadways, Panjim [9822488564] Rs 295. Pp extra. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/
Re: [Goanet] No beef on menu during Commonwealth Games: Kalmadi
--- On Sat, 7/24/10, Frederick Noronha f...@goa-india.org wrote: We have also seen another doctor, Santosh, take off persistently on persons like Nascy or earlier on Fr Ivo, in trying to prove them wrong. Differences in views can stem from legitimate differences in perspective, so why rub it in? Best perhaps just to state the point and leave it at that. All differences in views are not out of differences in perspective. Actually, most are due to ignorance and erroneous information. I try to tackle the latter kinds of views, and show why they are wrong, if they are, by providing facts and evidence that back me up. Indeed, the belief that differences in views are simply because of differences in perspective is a demonstrably false and especially dangerous notion in the internet age, with so much factual misinformation being spread by bloggers, activists and charlatans. I wish there were more journalists who recognized this fact. I don't agree with Nascy's style of expressing his views, but he does seem to have some point here. I am dismayed to learn that Admin Noronha only disagrees with Nascy's style, not his views. But I guess he has finally let the cat out of the bag. So does this mean that Noronha agrees with Nascy that Indian culture is inferior to all other cultures of the world? And that such a belief still means that Nascy is not judging Indian culture, but on the contrary, has great respect for it? Please correct me if I am wrong. And for once, state clearly what you believe and why. Regarding the beef ban, I believe it is wrong to impose any kind of bans of innocuous practices at public events, including idol and animal worship. But unfortunately all democratic countries resort to such madness, like the ban of specific types of clothing accessories in several European countries and bans against some movies in Australia. Of course, Nascy will have no courage or conviction to say anything against the latter bans. Cheers, Santosh * * * IS YOURS one of the stories of Goans on board the S.S. Dwarka, or at the Strait of Hormuz, Basra or Bahrain, Dubai, Swindon, Mombasa, Poona or Rangoon? Selma Carvalho's new book *Into the Diaspora Wilderness* docks at many other ports. Get your copy from Broadways, Panjim [9822488564] Rs 295. Pp extra. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/
Re: [Goanet] Cross Pollination
--- On Fri, 7/23/10, Jim Fernandes amigo...@att.net wrote: Let me repeat this once again, I have set you in my cross-wires as the next target. You are messing with the wrong guy. So what else is new? Instead of logic and reason, we have another instance of the same senseless verbal exercise of compensation for impotence from Shri Fernandes – another empty public threat and more hot air. We used to call them pokio fotaxio in Chimbel. But it is clear that he has been trying awfully hard without success to do the following: 1. Make me shut up, or shut me down, as he put it. 2. Get me to stop carrying on a discussion about issues that interest me in any Goan forum I want to. 3. Get me kicked out of Goanet. 4. Get me fired from my job. 5. Cause me to not be able to practice my profession. 6. Take the award I have received away from me, or make me give it back. And now he is talking about cross wires and targets. Apart from being an admission of his impotence to do anything to me so far, after all the vacuous bravado and threatening he has already engaged in on Goanet, I am not sure what he means by the specific words he has used, and how far this man is capable of going. So I would like to know from him the following: Shri Fernandes, What exactly are you threatening to do to me this time? I will wait for him to answer this question. But at this point one thing is clear from all this. There is nothing logical, rational or sensible about this man’s behavior that we are witnessing. To me another thing that is clear is that this is an exercise that will only end in disappointment for him, unless he relents. He will not be able to do any of the things I have listed above that he wants to do to me. He can rant and rave, huff and puff and blow as much steam as he has in him till the cows come home on Goanet. He is absolutely powerless as far as doing anything to me or anybody else. He may delude himself that he is the wrong guy to mess with. But the truth is that he is simply wrong. Now let me address the atrocious points and questions he has raised below: I disagreed with that assertion, which is when you decided to forward my response to your own little private list. The members of this list, then went on to SPAM me endlessly. This is another of Fernandes’ bogus self-aggrandizing delusions. Fernandes appears to have been born yesterday. The truth is I have been discussing this issue with, and copying my responses to, people on the other Goan mailing list long before he entered this discussion on Goanet. In the thread in question my first response copied to that mailing list was to Adv. Radharao Gracias’ article posted on Goanet and GX by Floriano. The present response will also be copied there, regardless of what Fernandes or anybody else thinks. In a free democracy each individual has a fundamental right to express his/her opinion wherever he/she wants, and in however many forums he/she wants. Nobody can do anything about it. Now that you admit that you got dole from the US federal government agency (National Science Foundation) to run your little birdie experiment, I'd like to request you to return the grant back to the agency. The above statement reveals that Fernandes quite obviously does not value scientific advancement supported by highly competitive and coveted public funding obtained through sheer hard work and intellectual rigor. Had it not been for public funding of scientific research and institutions like the National Science Foundation, Fernandes would not have a computer or an internet or the “complex” mathematics that keeps him employed rather than spend his time threatening, bloviating and abusing others. If India is so great, what are you doing here in the US? As I have already said in response to Adv. Gracias, the U.S. is the best place in the world to do the kind of research that I am doing. The fact that U.S. is greater than India in my field does not mean India is not great. I have already pointed out why India is greater than many European, North and South American and Asian countries, such as Portugal, Spain, Turkey, Australia, South Korea, Argentina, Brazil, Mexico, South Korea, Indonesia, etc., in terms of Nobel Prizes awarded for work done in the same country. Why are you using my money (my taxpayer money) to further your knowledge? Another emission from the depths of ignorance! I am using my taxpayer money, my skills, my mind and my blood and sweat to advance scientific knowledge for the benefit of all humankind, so one day when Fernandes and/or his descendants need the best treatment for some brain disorder they will have the chance to get it. Why don't you go back to India and beg with the Indian government for the grant? Either Fernandes believes he did not beg with some employer to obtain the computer job he is doing, and his employer did not beg for a government/private contract, or he has
Re: [Goanet] No beef on menu during Commonwealth Games:
In the following Gilbert resorts to demonization, instead of sticking to a sober rational discussion. Here is his quote: QUOTE To the second issue on this thread, Santosh's terminology and practice as stated below is from one end of the spectrum. It is identical to the same approach from the other end of the spectrum as practiced by right-wing blowhards such as American TV commentators Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reilly, and politicians like Newt Gingrich, Tom Delay etc etc. Come to think of it the SAME RATIONALIZATION was undertaken by the Inquisitional tribunal. UNQUOTE .Gilbert Lawrence I am not sure if anybody can detect anything rational or factual in the above statement. I certainly cannot. I give it as an example of how a difference in views is not because of difference in perspective. As in this case, it is mostly out of a lack of understanding of issues and facts, and I might add, in this specific case, out of a non-rational emotional impulse. For example, I can assure you that Gilbert will not be able to provide any facts to back up his claim that my following statement is a rationalization similar to that undertaken by the Inquisition. QUOTE All differences in views are not out of differences in perspective. Actually, most are due to ignorance and erroneous information. I try to tackle the latter kinds of views, and show why they are wrong, if they are, by providing facts and evidence that back me up. Indeed, the belief that differences in views are simply because of differences in perspective is a demonstrably false and especially dangerous notion in the internet age, with so much factual misinformation being spread by bloggers, activists and charlatans. I wish there were more journalists who recognized this fact. UNQUOTE .Santosh Helekar To back up my own statement, let me list below some issues that I have tackled before as examples of differences in views being due to ignorance and misinformation, rather that difference in perspective: 1. AIDS is not caused by the HIV virus. 2. Cancer in general is incurable. 3. India has not contributed anything to civilization in the last 2000 years. 4. Homosexuality is a disorder. 5. Global warming is not taking place, and increase in green house gases is not due to human activity. 6. Humans have been created by a intelligent designer. 7. Brain science has provided evidence for a spiritual realm independent of the brain. 8. Vaccinations cause autism. 9. Alternative medicine is scientific. Gilbert will be unable to tell us why the above beliefs are not factually wrong, but simply a difference in perspective. That is why like most other contributions from him on sundry unrelated topics, but especially on the inquisition and Goan history, it is hard to make sense of or give credence to what he is saying. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sun, 7/25/10, Gilbert Lawrence gilbert2...@yahoo.com wrote: Before I get to the more important aspect of this discussion (the take-off), I would like to express my views on the topic of this thread. I concur with the Indian govt.'s position, which is reasoned and well-balanced! When one arrives at a host's house, it is important for the host to be hospitable. It is also important for the guest to be sensitive to the cultural practices and norms of the host. The Indian govt is not imposing vegetarianism on the athletes - which could be extreme. There will likely be all kinds of 'white meat' (chicken, pheasant, pork) and 'red meat' (lamb, mutton) and fish available. If Goans were smart, there would be plenty of chorrisaum, pork vindaloos etc available. When individuals go abroad, it is more likely than not, they sacrifice on the absence of their exotic dishes. Goans coming to America likely have to write-off their menu-dishes like parra, other pickled fish ani bombil. Similarly people from other nationalities coming to America would have to forgo their exotic dishes made of items like snakes or lizard or beetles. To the second issue on this thread, Santosh's terminology and practice as stated below is from one end of the spectrum. It is identical to the same approach from the other end of the spectrum as practiced by right-wing blowhards such as American TV commentators Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reilly, and politicians like Newt Gingrich, Tom Delay etc etc. Come to think of it the SAME RATIONALIZATION was undertaken by the Inquisitional tribunal. What should definitely not be accepted is reversal of the facts, which is not uncommon today, making any basis of dialog impossible. The secret of continuing a dialog is to be able to disagree without being disagreeable. That could be a matter of opinion. Regards, GL --- Santosh Helekar: All differences in views are not out of differences in perspective. Actually, most are due to ignorance and erroneous information. I try
Re: [Goanet] Cross Pollination
After Gilbert and Marshall, now another member with personal issues is discharging his puerile potshots at me again. Speaking of backing up, it appears that all the backing up is being done by the now defunct FCA Rodriquez and Company. Most of these characters who have never shown any ability to stand up on their own in a sober rational debate appear to have been recruited as sidekicks and hecklers in this thread. But FCA Rodriguez is in a delirium of his own. He babbles I escaped being nuked by his Nerf gun, and fantasizes that I quoted something from the Wikipedia. I would recommend to FCA that he hide behind the skirts of Waylusha and Isabel again. He is no match for Gilbert. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sun, 7/25/10, Francis Rodrigues fcarodrig...@hotmail.com wrote: Real fun watching Goan cyberspace's No. 1 Spam Hound (SH) squirm, with none of his sneer-buddies backing up his false bluster! Even more hilarious - neuro Helekar who spent the better part of a year spitting out authoritative quotes at poor Fr. Ivo, now feebly quotes the widely-discredited Wikipedia as his sole authority on spam!! Forgetting the Can Spam Act...selective amnesia? He barely escaped being nuked - just that I've very little interest in these scientific pseuds! FR * * * IS YOURS one of the stories of Goans on board the S.S. Dwarka, or at the Strait of Hormuz, Basra or Bahrain, Dubai, Swindon, Mombasa, Poona or Rangoon? Selma Carvalho's new book *Into the Diaspora Wilderness* docks at many other ports. Get your copy from Broadways, Panjim [9822488564] Rs 295. Pp extra. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/
Re: [Goanet] SH - stop this last word...story
--- On Sun, 7/25/10, Jose Da Gama Pais dagamap...@gmail.com wrote: we all go six feet deep don't we..?? I am sorry, but I am never going to go six feet deep. In addition to not knowing this fact, JDGP appears to be confused about how discussions end on Goanet. It is also unusual to see that he is enjoying a person threaten and abuse another person, and paradoxically, wants the target of the threats to stop defending himself, instead of the other way around. As for how discussions end on Goanet, and who gets the last word, it is not up to an individual Goanetter's enjoyment and bias. How it should happen is all in the rules, if they are properly enforced. The moderators get to end the discussion by asking the participants to post their final post. I am all for such a thing to happen in the thread in question. I hope JDGP who is new to this forum learns this quickly. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sun, 7/25/10, Jose Da Gama Pais dagamap...@gmail.com wrote: It is with disgust that I write... that finally I am enjoying someone like JF who I do not even know personally. not even SH. but this I am the last word episode series must end. If someone says enough..give him breathing space. Do not always try to prove I am the last word. what we said in chimbel or in chambal matters for nobody... we all go six feet deep don't we..?? proving I am always the last word is sometimes a crab mentality and a shame.. May better sense prevail. JDGP * * * * * * IS YOURS one of the stories of Goans on board the S.S. Dwarka, or at the Strait of Hormuz, Basra or Bahrain, Dubai, Swindon, Mombasa, Poona or Rangoon? Selma Carvalho's new book *Into the Diaspora Wilderness* docks at many other ports. Get your copy from Broadways, Panjim [9822488564] Rs 295. Pp extra. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/
Re: [Goanet] Cross Pollination
--- On Sun, 7/25/10, Jim Fernandes amigo...@att.net wrote: This is my last email to you on this thread - unless circumstances change that would warrant me to write back again. Shri Fernandes, Sorry to see you take your marbles and go home. It looks like you could not achieve what you boasted about on Goanet for so long. It must be really embarrassing for you. Even in your last post all you could manage was more empty threats, fake boasts and lame insults violating two important anti-abuse rules of Goanet. Your circumstances have certainly changed on Goanet. It is hard for any sensible person to take you seriously from now on. So as I had predicted, all this ended in a shameful disappointment for you. Once again, I am sorry about that. Cheers, Santosh P.S. BTW, two more things: 1. I had asked you to return the money that both the U.S. government and the Indian government has spent on your education. Please tell me where you were educated, so I can calculate how much it is. You also need to return the government contract money that your employer has received to pay your wages. 2. Since you know nothing about medical research, let alone my own, let me inform you that if you come to our hospital, I will tell you and show you exactly how my research will benefit you and the younger generations that will carry your genes. --- On Sun, 7/25/10, Jim Fernandes amigo...@att.net wrote: This is my last email to you on this thread - unless circumstances change that would warrant me to write back again. I haven't yet exercized the full potential of my retaliation. I am definitely not going to reveal to you what I got in my arsenal. In military terms - its called 'element of surprise'. I reserve the right to retain all options on the table and I shall use my options at the time of my choosing. For now, I shall keep you guessing :) There is zero chance of any benefit senhor Helekar's research is going to benefit any humans. The only cure that could come from the non-sense that he is talking about, is either with the use of stem cells or by altering human DNA with the use of a virus that could be used to 'fix' the genetic damage to the concerned individual. So please go ahead and return my tax money back to the US federal agency. Because I requested him to return the 'dole' back to the US government, senhor Helekar wants me to return the tax payer money I might have gotten for my education in India. Does this punk have any idea, how much money I have paid to the Indian government in taxes? I have given much more to India than what I got. Just this year alone, I paid some close to Rs 1,000,000 (some US $20,000) in customs duty for some stuff that I sent to Goa. I could have easily bribed some Babu - far less money - at the Indian customs and sneaked my stuff in. But I paid the money to the Indian government via actual bank transfers. India should be proud of an OCI like me. Don't you agree :) . Finally, this punk admits that the US is the number one country in the world for technological advancement. He also admits (though half heartedly) that India is no match for the US. How cool is that for this hypocrite? Jim F New York * * * UK STOCKS EXHAUSTED! After a community-supported launch at Croydon, Selma Carvalho's *Into the Diaspora Wilderness* is available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. Ask a friend to pick up a copy. Details of the book http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] All Religions for Human Integral Development (Final response to U. G. Barad)
Most of the post quoted below and the earlier one in this thread (http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2010-July/196539.html) appear to have been lifted verbatim from some websites. They have been copied and pasted without naming the sources, and without placing them in quotes. I request the author to avoid this in the future. Cheers, Santosh P.S. Also, please note that most scientists claim not to know anything about the supernatural. Most doctors claim to know whatever their religion teaches them. But I have never met a doctor or a scientist who claims to know everything. --- On Tue, 7/27/10, pinheiro gift.pinhe...@gmail.com wrote: ...There nothing called total holy or pure in spiritual life but one can one strive to attain that holiness and purity through lot of mediation and scarify. Some doctors and scientists think they know everything and so they have answers to everything. I pity them, for life on earth is journey and you learn something new till you die. There are 10 books for the Rigveda. Ten mandalams. From first to nine mandalams, in several places it is clearly said who is the real God, who is man and why should man worship the God and how should he worship him. In the tenth mandalam, besides this Lord Almighty, there is the mention about a man. The first born and only son of the God. His name is Prajapathy (Praja means man and Pathy means saviour), the son of the God comes to this world at the appropriate time. U. G. Barad, you yourself had quoted Rig Veda (Vedic literature) in one of your response yet you say you do not have Vedic literature. Kindly read below text (they are written in Sanskrit not Greek) you will know what I tried to explain you in previous mail. Rigveda X:90:2 पुरुष एवेदं सर्वं यद भूतं यच्च भव्यम | उताम्र्तत्वस्येशानो यदन्नेनातिरोहति || Purusha evedam sarvam Yadbhutham yachabhavyam Uthaamruthathwasya esaana Ya daannenathirohathi This man, the first born of the God is all that was, all that is and all that has to be. And he comes to this world to give recompense to everybody as per his deeds. In the in the Holy Bible, book of Revelation, St.John 1:8 'The Lord God, who is, who was and who is to come'. In John's Gospel 8th chapter 51st verse Jesus says: I am telling you the truth. Whoever obeys my teaching will never die. * * * UK STOCKS EXHAUSTED! After a community-supported launch at Croydon, Selma Carvalho's *Into the Diaspora Wilderness* is available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. Ask a friend to pick up a copy. Details of the book http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] Celibacy Today
--- On Wed, 7/28/10, Ivo icso...@bsnl.in wrote: There is free will, it is the outcome of several factors. See the website: http://www.narth.com/docs/hom101.html Homosexuality 101: What Every Therapist, Parent, And Homosexual Should Know Julie Harren, Ph.D., LMFT The above website propagates unscientific nonsense. Please do not trust anything it says. Here is a more responsible and reliable article on sexual orientation: http://www.bri.ucla.edu/bri_weekly/news_050812.asp Cheers, Santosh * * * Encounter hints (and more) of the Goan life in Zanzibar, Poona, Mombasa, Basra, Dubai, and even Nuvem and Colva, Sanvordem and colonial Goa. Learn of experiences that shaped Goans worldwide. Selma Carvalho's *Into the Diaspora Wilderness* now available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Ask a friend to buy it, before it gets sold out. Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events
At variance with what is posted below, I was pleasantly surprised to see that there was a polite and respectful discussion between the lady representative of the extremist Hindu organization, Dr. Jose Pereira and the organizers of the exhibition. The only provocation for confrontation that I saw was from Admin Noronha. It is true that there can be multiple interpretations for scriptures, and literary texts, which add to its cultural value, but unfortunately religious folk insist on their own unique interpretation. This is true for all religions. The important question therefore in a secular democracy is how to deal with this issue. I for one would vote to protect artistic and academic freedom above everything else. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sat, 7/31/10, augusto pinto pinto...@gmail.com wrote: He said that they had in their newspaper, the Marathi, Sanatan Prabhat, provocatively provided the phone numbers of the XCHR and suggested that their readers should ring up this number and threaten them. The intruders who could be seen to be becoming increasingly uncomfortable by the gandhigiri displayed by the organisers, as well as the fact that they were being shown up to be an irrational trouble fomenting group, then beat a hasty retreat. * * * Encounter hints (and more) of the Goan life in Zanzibar, Poona, Mombasa, Basra, Dubai, and even Nuvem and Colva, Sanvordem and colonial Goa. Learn of experiences that shaped Goans worldwide. Selma Carvalho's *Into the Diaspora Wilderness* now available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Ask a friend to buy it, before it gets sold out. Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] All Religions for Human Integral Development
There is literally nothing in common between what Bosco and Venantius have written, and what Gilbert has written in two posts now. These authors are not on the same planet, leave alone being on the same wavelength. The problem is so simple, and yet so important, that it is addressed in elementary school nowadays in most parts of the world. I know this from my own experience as a parent. The question we are faced with is: It it ethical and legal to copy and paste material verbatim from the internet without using quotation marks, and without providing a link to the website from where it is taken? The answer is clearly no. There is no excuse to misrepresenting other people's writings as one's own, even if done unintentionally. One cannot afford to be so intellectually lazy. There is absolutely no downside to providing proper links and attributions to quoted text. It is the person who is not doing so that is abusing his privilege, not the other way round. Cheers, Santosh P.S. - Since some spurious confusion regarding cancer has been injected below, here is its clear technical definition from the U.S. National Cancer Institute: QUOTE cancer (KAN-ser) A term for diseases in which abnormal cells divide without control and can invade nearby tissues. Cancer cells can also spread to other parts of the body through the blood and lymph systems. There are several main types of cancer. Carcinoma is a cancer that begins in the skin or in tissues that line or cover internal organs. Sarcoma is a cancer that begins in bone, cartilage, fat, muscle, blood vessels, or other connective or supportive tissue. Leukemia is a cancer that starts in blood-forming tissue such as the bone marrow, and causes large numbers of abnormal blood cells to be produced and enter the blood. Lymphoma and multiple myeloma are cancers that begin in the cells of the immune system. Central nervous system cancers are cancers that begin in the tissues of the brain and spinal cord. Also called malignancy. UNQUOTE Please see: http://www.cancer.gov/dictionary/?CdrID=45333 --- On Sat, 7/31/10, Gilbert Lawrence gilbert2...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi Bosco and Venatius, Thanks for your response. We are all on the same wavelength. Great Minds Think Alike As we and others can see, we are coming from similar and yet subtly different perspectives. My post was to encourage Goans to write on goanet; and for us to make it easy for them to do so. This involves not intimidating them or creating any glass barriers. Writing something, first involves 'READING and DIGESTING the subject at hand'. Then there is courage to and developing the art of writing. So clearly veteran writers and goanetters should give some slack to novice writers and members. The prerequisites of reading and digesting the subject at hand contradicts regurgitating and plagiarizing what someone else has already done. Certainly web-links, sources and references should be provided when appropriate. Yet on goanet and elsewhere, this has taken an abuse of its own. Tech-savvy and techno-equipped individuals are posting links on topics where, they have NOT READ and DIGESTED the subject at hand. So now we have 'jack of all trades' masquerading within hours as masters of all trades. Sometimes the above is done inadvertently (which is excusable) and sometimes it is done repeatedly and blatantly (leading to repeated endless arguments). Lets look at the endless posts about Cancer is incurable. If either of the two opponents had read and digested the reams of web-links they posted, the first question they would ask: For which situation (type of cancer and part of the world) does this statement apply? And this is not even getting into technicalities like what is the definition of cure in cancer, etc.. * * * Encounter hints (and more) of the Goan life in Zanzibar, Poona, Mombasa, Basra, Dubai, and even Nuvem and Colva, Sanvordem and colonial Goa. Learn of experiences that shaped Goans worldwide. Selma Carvalho's *Into the Diaspora Wilderness* now available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Ask a friend to buy it, before it gets sold out. Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] UID for Goan Residents
One of the things that reason and science teach us is that generalization of the type quoted below is invariably wrong. If objectivity was a myth airplanes would not have flown. We would not have landed on the moon. And there would not have been an internet. Kevin Dunbar himself would not have been able to draw meaningful objective conclusions from his research. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sat, 7/31/10, Frederick Noronha fredericknoro...@gmail.com wrote: This is interesting, I don't know if you'll agree: The reason we're so resistant to anomalous information - the real reason researchers automatically assume that every unexpected result is a stupid mistake - is rooted in the way the human brain works. Over the past few decades, psychologists have dismantled the myth of objectivity. The fact is, we edit our reality, searching for evidence that confirms what we already believe. Although we pretend we're empiricists - our views dictated by nothing but the facts - we're actually blinkered when it comes to information that contradicts our theories. The problem with science, then, isn't that most experiments fail - it's that most failures are ignored. http://www.devcomments.com/Interpreting-facts-as-failure-the-neuroscience-of-science-i16694.htm Frederick Noronha +91-9822122436 +91-832-2409490 On 31 July 2010 17:53, J. Colaco jc cola...@gmail.com wrote: Dear FN, Do advise IF you find the article at http://www.colaco.net/1/TGFCommunalRiots.htm reasonable or unreasonable; and if unreasonable - why you find it so? Unless you are a politician or an aspiring one, your attempt to divide statement is as daft as the colaco types one which has remained uncorrected for several years. The next thing one might hear from you is that I am (or Rajan is) attempting to divide the previously Portuguese Goa into Old conquests and New conquests. I trust that you will acknowledge that 'facts' do not need re-invention, and that good neighbourly relationships and tolerance develop with the benefit of time. But then perhaps, you will not. Frederick Noronha wrote: I'm talking specifically about the attempt to divide Muslims into good Goan Muslims and bad migrant Muslims. No prize for guessing where this ingenuous argument comes from! You can find examples of this here: http://www.goanews.com/news_disp.php?newsid=128 http://www.colaco.net/1/TGFCommunalRiots.htm http://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg09023.html and many other places since this hybrid of communalism-regional chauvinism (specifically focussed on the Muslim) was first floated into the market. FN * * * Encounter hints (and more) of the Goan life in Zanzibar, Poona, Mombasa, Basra, Dubai, and even Nuvem and Colva, Sanvordem and colonial Goa. Learn of experiences that shaped Goans worldwide. Selma Carvalho's *Into the Diaspora Wilderness* now available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Ask a friend to buy it, before it gets sold out. Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * * * * * Encounter hints (and more) of the Goan life in Zanzibar, Poona, Mombasa, Basra, Dubai, and even Nuvem and Colva, Sanvordem and colonial Goa. Learn of experiences that shaped Goans worldwide. Selma Carvalho's *Into the Diaspora Wilderness* now available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Ask a friend to buy it, before it gets sold out. Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] All Religions for Human Integral Development
The post quoted below reveals a confusion between providing references, as in technical or scholarly writing, and the simple requirement to enclose copied and pasted material from the internet in quotes, with a link to the website from where it is lifted. Those who place pilfered text verbatim in their posts, creating the impression that it is their own, are taking a huge risk. No amount of miscued excuses like those in the post below will protect them. Cheers, Santosh --- On Fri, 7/30/10, Gilbert Lawrence gilbert2...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi Venatius, I read your recent interesting post on this thread (I think) requesting references. Your's has been a POLITE and WELL ARTICULATED article making the case to provide references in posts. So I extend you the courtesy of a polite response in requesting you to consider the following points. 1. Writing a response to a post on goanet (or in a blog) is like writing a letter-to-the-editor. By-and-large, do you see any references in letters to-the-editor published in Goan, Indian or international newspapers and magazines? * * * Encounter hints (and more) of the Goan life in Zanzibar, Poona, Mombasa, Basra, Dubai, and even Nuvem and Colva, Sanvordem and colonial Goa. Learn of experiences that shaped Goans worldwide. Selma Carvalho's *Into the Diaspora Wilderness* now available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Ask a friend to buy it, before it gets sold out. Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] All Religions for Human Integral Development
The post quoted below reveals a confusion between providing references, as in technical or scholarly writing, and the simple requirement to enclose copied and pasted material from the internet in quotes, with a link to the website from where it is lifted. Those who place pilfered text verbatim in their posts, creating the impression that it is their own, are taking a huge risk. No amount of miscued excuses like those in the post below will protect them. Cheers, Santosh --- On Fri, 7/30/10, Gilbert Lawrence gilbert2...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi Venatius, I read your recent interesting post on this thread (I think) requesting references. Your's has been a POLITE and WELL ARTICULATED article making the case to provide references in posts. So I extend you the courtesy of a polite response in requesting you to consider the following points. 1. Writing a response to a post on goanet (or in a blog) is like writing a letter-to-the-editor. By-and-large, do you see any references in letters to-the-editor published in Goan, Indian or international newspapers and magazines? * * * Encounter hints (and more) of the Goan life in Zanzibar, Poona, Mombasa, Basra, Dubai, and even Nuvem and Colva, Sanvordem and colonial Goa. Learn of experiences that shaped Goans worldwide. Selma Carvalho's *Into the Diaspora Wilderness* now available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Ask a friend to buy it, before it gets sold out. Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] All Religions for Human Integral Development
This outburst from Gilbert is understandable considering the obvious fact that what he had written had nothing to do with the issue at hand, as referred to by Bosco and Venantius. Please note the following response by Bosco, for instance, to the irrelevant post by Gilbert in this thread: http://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg45880.html Quite predictably, Gilbert is now misinforming you that I don't know anything about cancer, and that I haven't read or don't understand what I read on this topic on the internet and elsewhere. Nobody should be fooled by this, and by his inappropriate use of the word abuse to describe those who diligently provide weblinks and references for the information they provide, especially if it is a verbatim quote from someone else. It should also be clear to most sensible people that because of my formal medical education I should know more about cancer than Gilbert does about Goan history, history of the inquisition, history of Tipu Sultan, and world economics, all topics on which he has pontificated on Goanet without having any formal background in these fields, and without providing any sources for his baseless speculations, even when repeatedly asked to do so. BTW, I apologize for inadvertently leaving out the definition of cure, as provided by the U.S. National Cancer Institute (NCI), from my earlier attempt to clarify the confusion injected by Gilbert about cancer. Here it is now at the same NCI website I had provided in my earlier post: QUOTE cure To heal or restore health; a treatment to restore health. UNQUOTE http://www.cancer.gov/dictionary/?CdrID=318813 I had also provided earlier on Goanet a more quantitative definition of cancer cure based on my critical reading, understanding and study of the latest original papers on cancer epidemiology by international experts such as Herman Brenner. Please see the following link for that earlier post of mine: http://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg51546.html From past experience I know that it is unlikely that Gilbert would be able to add anything substantive to this discussion. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sun, 8/1/10, Gilbert Lawrence gilbert2...@yahoo.com wrote: At first I thought Santosh was trying to misrepresent and or high-jack the subject, which he and few others often do. Now it is confirmed, what I and likely many suspected. It is clear to all that he does not understand the topic being discussed. This is not the first time this has been pointed out. And Santosh is not the exception to this malady. That is what happens with web-surfing and abuse of merely providing web-links. A great example of jack of all trades masquerading as a master. In Konkani it is called petoita murre. This is my last post on this thread. Regards, GL * * * In every way, the Goans of Bombay were part of the great melee that was this metropolis, distinct perhaps in the way communities often are, holding on to their own traditions but merging slowly nonetheless and forming the thin thread of nationhood that would eventually become India. -- Selma Carvalho, in *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] All Religions for Human Integral Development
--- On Sun, 8/1/10, Santosh Helekar chimbel...@yahoo.com wrote: Please note the following response by Bosco, for instance, to the irrelevant post by Gilbert in the thread in question: http://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg45880.html The above link is not the correct one, although it is an accurate description of the problem with Gilbert's posts on Goanet. The correct link to Bosco's post that I was referring to, is: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2010-July/196781.html Cheers, Santosh * * * In every way, the Goans of Bombay were part of the great melee that was this metropolis, distinct perhaps in the way communities often are, holding on to their own traditions but merging slowly nonetheless and forming the thin thread of nationhood that would eventually become India. -- Selma Carvalho, in *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events
I do not agree with Rajan that Admin Noronha is anti-Hindu. But it is clear to me that he is not a secular pluralist either. The grounds for this belief are quite obvious. Admin Noronha is driven by an entrenched ideology. As with all ideologies, it has outlived its purpose, if it had any purpose in the first place. Like its counterparts, it pigeonholes everybody who does not swallow its precepts hook, line and sinker, into a monolithic camp opposed to all that is good and dandy in this world. That is why he, like others with similar afflictions, uses the usual methods of negative political campaigning against people who are different in any respect from him - the methods of guilt by association, smear, innuendo, etc. The other unfortunate casualty of this unreasonable outlook, beholden to a political ideology rather than to a rational approach towards the day-to-day transactions of regular folk, is an inability to recognize their habitual lapses in fairness and even-handedness. The confrontational attitude that he showed in that video amidst a sober and sensible discussion between two parties should give you some insight into what I am talking about. A person who is secular is first and foremost dispassionate and considerate. She proceeds with no presumptions, or the presumption of innocence, in her every day interactions. She recognizes that even good and decent people can be misguided, and indeed, quite often are. I am hoping to see a glimpse of this someday in Admin Noronha and other like-minded folk who like to think of themselves as fighting for the secular cause. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sun, 8/1/10, Frederick Noronha fredericknoro...@gmail.com wrote: Glad to note that the skin-deep secularists are now exposing themselves on Goanet. Earlier, the argument used to be my bigots are better than your bigots. Now it seems to have shifted to: if you challenge the logic of my bigots, I will target you instead. All while claiming the secular space! FN On 1 August 2010 05:29, Rajan P. Parrikar parri...@yahoo.com wrote: I just took a look at the two posted videos. The only piece of hostility there, as Dr. Helekar has noted, came from the anti-Hindu, communal, muckraking, coward-of-a-smear-merchant Frederick Noronha. To the likes of Admin Noronha and his fellow cohorts like the Commie operator Gadgil, only Hindu malfeasance is visible, and they will lie through their pustulated behinds at every opportunity provided by the fringe Hindu rightwing to portray the Hindu Right as the biggest danger since Nazi Germany. * * * In every way, the Goans of Bombay were part of the great melee that was this metropolis, distinct perhaps in the way communities often are, holding on to their own traditions but merging slowly nonetheless and forming the thin thread of nationhood that would eventually become India. -- Selma Carvalho, in *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events
--- On Sun, 8/1/10, Rajan P. Parrikar parri...@yahoo.com wrote: Criticism of Hinduism, Hindus, Hindu Right, Hindu Anything in itself does not make anyone anti-Hindu. To cite an extreme case, I have never thought of Nascy as anti-Hindu. Semi-literate clown, yes. Anti-Hindu, no. I am not sure what Nascimento is, and I don't really care. I only like the entertainment he provides in the Goanet circus, and am always looking forward to goading him into lowering the semi-literacy level of this forum further with each post. The anti-Hindu fellow harbours a deep resentment towards any assertion of Hindu identity or any attempt at Hindu organization, whether it is political or social. Anytime he sees something which in his mind demonstrates Hindu strength his instinct is to smear it, or fabricate stories to tar the individual or group. I see nothing wrong in being opposed to politicization of religion, or to an assertion of a political (not social) identity based on religion, as long as it is even-handed, i.e. applied to all religions equally, if one claims to uphold the Indian secular outlook. The latter is where in my estimation Admin Noronha and others like him fall short, even after making allowance for the fact that minorities should receive special protection in a democracy driven by the majority vote. And yes, there is no reflection, self-reflection and weighing on a case by case basis. There is always the same boiler-plate narrative that is applied to everything, and everybody who has a difference of opinion, about a political issue or event. Cheers, Santosh * * * In every way, the Goans of Bombay were part of the great melee that was this metropolis, distinct perhaps in the way communities often are, holding on to their own traditions but merging slowly nonetheless and forming the thin thread of nationhood that would eventually become India. -- Selma Carvalho, in *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] All Religions for Human Integral Development
Five observations regarding Gilbert's latest material are: 1. He failed to keep his promise not to write again in this thread. 2. He continues to engage in personal attacks against me violating Goanet rules, while boorishly claiming that I did so. 3. He has some silly problems with the definition of cure provided by the U. S. National Cancer Institute, and blames me for them. Perhaps, he also believes that all the cancer experts of the world are not as smart and knowledgeable as him. 4. He believes haughtily and foolishly that Goanetters love what he writes, that he speaks on behalf of all Goanetters, and that his garbled writings on Goanet on the inquisition, Tipu Sultan, etc. are all his original discoveries. 5. As I had predicted, he was unable to add anything substantive, or perhaps, even understand, the quantitative definition of cancer cure that I had provided through a link to an earlier post of mine. Here is that definition again: QUOTE From the scientific standpoint, a complete cure is deemed to have occurred if a cancer patient has: a) Survived after treatment without cancer recurrence for a period that exceeds the plateau phase (the point at which the falling survival curve becomes parallel to the x axis) of his/her cancer’s survival curve, and b) Has achieved a normal life free of cancer, wherein the probabilities of dying from it, as well as of attaining the average life expectancy, are the same as that of any normal person who has never had cancer. UNQUOTE ..Santosh Helekar Please see: http://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg51546.html Cheers, Santosh --- On Sun, 8/1/10, Gilbert Lawrence gilbert2...@yahoo.com wrote: Responding to my last post on Goanet, the following was spammed to me and few Goans and some Goan websites. Likely a Goanet violation. Obviously some 'do not get it' about NOT spamming. Despite my earlier statement about ending this thread, it is important to spare Goans on Goanet and elsewhere the mis-information thrust on them about cancer. So moderators and goanetters, please excuse me for tapping into your patience. After recognizing his mistake about the 'definition of cancer cure', Santosh did what he does best. Back to web-surfing and the usual cut and paste with the web-link. I do not know what he would do without the web. Yet, he has FAILED AGAIN to read, understand and digest the topic being discussed and what he reads. Based on definition he provides below (with QUOTES and web-link reference); if a person with cancer is treated and three months later has restore health (far from scientific term) and is back to work, that means he/she is cured of their cancer. And the therapy for treatment to restore health three months later is considered curative therapy. This definition DOES NOT even INCLUDE: no sign of cancer after testing etc. BTW, even with 'no sign of cancer', it does not mean the patient is cured. It may be called 'remission'. Santosh in his reply below is showing the shortcomings of references without understanding the material he reads. Thanks Santosh for the show and tell. Venantius and others please note how people hide behind a reference, while sounding intellectual. Further, after another chance, what we see is ignorance (of medical knowledge) and foolishness. If I showed his following definition of cure of cancer to anyone, they would question Santosh's medical knowledge (training) and analytic ability (as a research scientist). Now I can understand why Santosh does not write anything original on Goanet. And confines himself to web-surfing, and demonizing others both in what they write and personally; while presenting himself as intellectual. That is of course a poor strategy. Insulting others is an appalling substitute for knowledge for a researcher and a pathetic display of lack of decency and class. I am given to understand that all this is saved in the archives of President Pandurang library - a great resource for future generations of Goans. My sincere advice to Santosh: Quit while you are ahead. Goanetters have had enough 'pirachit' for the weekend. I am embarrassed to analyze your writings. And surely many others, with whom you have crossed swords, feel the same. How can we save you from yourself? Most goanetters (me inlcuded) avoid dialog with you; despite you thrusting yourself on us via Goanet or spam mail. Regards, GL * * * In every way, the Goans of Bombay were part of the great melee that was this metropolis, distinct perhaps in the way communities often are, holding on to their own traditions but merging slowly nonetheless and forming the thin thread of nationhood that would eventually become India. -- Selma Carvalho, in *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295
Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events
I would request Sam Furtado to retract the statements he has made against me below. I have never made the assertion that he has falsely quoted as my own. My position on Dr. Jose Pereira's paintings is exactly what it has been all along with other artistic and academic freedom issues such as those related to Hussain, Dan Brown and Da Vinci code movie, Salman Rushdie and Subodh Kerkar. I am unconditionally in favor of artistic and academic freedom, and am opposed to anybody who uses violence and intimidation to stifle it. Groups such as Hindu Janajagruti Samiti, inappropriately named Catholic Secular Forum, Islamic Defense Council, etc stand for everything that I am against. But I have no problem as long as they express their protests in a peaceful manner, as the lady in the video was doing. Cheers, Santosh --- On Mon, 8/2/10, Sam Furtado sfrainbo...@gmail.com wrote: The Biggest misnomer of the day about the Goans is by Dr. Santosh Helekar's, email, which relates to the brewed contraversy on Dr. Jose Pereira's Paintings', and which I quote below: Quote: The biggest danger to communal peace in Goa is this breed of dregs, not the Sanatan Saunstha. ?You can take this to the bank. Unquote: It is people like Dr. Santosh Helekar who are communal biased and cannot mesticate the facts of life or reality. Every person in his own right have freedom of expression; Be it in writing, painting or voicing, irrespective of the nature of the subject. Everthing likes in the Eyes of the Beholder. So what despicability or deplorability or disgraceful is there in Dr. Jose's Paintings? I think he needs to visit a Shrink. To sum up in short it is people like Dr. Santosh Helekar, who are communal frenzy and these are the people need to be watched closely or else they will be detrimental to the society and the peace loving Goans. Sam * * * In every way, the Goans of Bombay were part of the great melee that was this metropolis, distinct perhaps in the way communities often are, holding on to their own traditions but merging slowly nonetheless and forming the thin thread of nationhood that would eventually become India. -- Selma Carvalho, in *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events
Prof. Augusto Pinto is nicely demonstrating the cheap political campaigning tactics that I had mentioned in this thread - tactics of smearing, linking with devilish political opponents, terrorist organizations, murderers, etc. The following quote of the professor has everything he accuses me of and more - twisting of words, spin-doctoring, verbal abuse and insults: QUOTE I am sure the Sanatanists will be very grateful to Santosh Helekar for diverting attention away from this terrorist organisation and the irony of it is that he has accused FN - who was instrumental in pointing out to their perfidy - of being the aggressor!! UNQUOTE .Prof. Augusto Pinto An utter lack of self-reflection is also evident. This is the malady that afflicts people who are driven by an unbalanced view of the world centered around recycled ideologies and visceral identities, rather than independent rational thought. Do you think these people will ever succeed in doing anything constructive for the secular cause? I don't. They will continue fighting their petty political battles, cherry picking which murderers to shill for and which murderers to attack based on their prearranged ideological agenda. The same holds true for whom they abuse in public forums. Do you think Prof. Augusto or Admin Noronha will confront, speak out against or abuse AF for the following post? QUOTE when I first read of Mr. Pereira, the supposed intellect-turned-painter-turned-grumpy old man, i opined that he was just a self-taught wannabe great. Now, I read that he has painted Christ in the nude ( and the Hindus get angry that he has painted their Deities in the nude, too), I wonder where and how did he ever imagine where in the Bible there was any reference to a naked Christ. This man claims he has done research on nude Deities before formulating his drawings. I say he just wants to rile up the locals, from his self-exiled foreign perch. Shame on Mr. Pereira! UNQUOTE .AF Please see: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2010-August/196900.html I don't. Cheers, Santosh --- On Mon, 8/2/10, augusto pinto pinto...@gmail.com wrote: I would like to congratulate Dr. Santosh Helekar on his ability to twist arguments, ideas and words in such a way that others are put completely on the defensive. This spin-doctor-ability is an absolute marvel to me. Look at the issue at hand. The subject is: Re: Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events. I had originally raised this issue to point to the perfidy of the Hindu Janajagriti Samiti who had through an allied organisation - the Sanatan Saunstha - put out hate propaganda through its newspaper the Sanatan Prabhat, and had published the phone numbers of the Xavier Centre for Historical Research which led to a spate of hate calls to the XCHR, wherein the 79 year old Dr. Jose Pereira was even threatened of being decapitated. At the XCHR talk by Dr. Jose Pereira, where the activists of the HJS intruded to lecture him about their hurt sentiments Frederick Noronha pointed out to them their perfidious act of publishing the phone numbers of the XCHR and suggesting to their misguided readers that they make threatening phone calls to the XCHR. Santosh Helekar used this point to hijack the subject of Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events - to turn it into a diatribe against FN. The fact that an old scholar, artist and philosopher has been issued death threats has been drowned out in the meanwhile. Remember, the Sanatan Saunstha is the organisation which wanted to explode bombs on Narkasur day last year. The fact that they failed and killed two of their own members is a different issue. I am sure the Sanatanists will be very grateful to Santosh Helekar for diverting attention away from this terrorist organisation and the irony of it is that he has accused FN - who was instrumental in pointing out to their perfidy - of being the aggressor!! I wish to congratulate Santosh Helekar on his excellent rhetorical skills. -- * * * In every way, the Goans of Bombay were part of the great melee that was this metropolis, distinct perhaps in the way communities often are, holding on to their own traditions but merging slowly nonetheless and forming the thin thread of nationhood that would eventually become India. -- Selma Carvalho, in *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events
Prof. Augusto Pinto is on a crusade to attack and smear me over something I have not done. But please note that he is afraid to name and speak out against the following people: 1. The actual perpetrators of the bomb blasts in Margao, belonging to the Sanatan Saunstha. 2. The politicians who have shilled for them, and caused harm to Goa in other ways. 3. The Maoists who are responsible for thousands of murders over the last decade in India. 4. Rajan Parrikar who stated the following referring to people like Admin Noronha: The biggest danger to communal peace in Goa is this breed of dregs, not the Sanatan Saunstha. You can take this to the bank. Rajan Parrikar Please see - http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2010-July/196815.html 5. AF who directly attacked Dr. Jose Pereira as follows: QUOTE when I first read of Mr. Pereira, the supposed intellect-turned-painter-turned-grumpy old man, i opined that he was just a self-taught wannabe great. Now, I read that he has painted Christ in the nude ( and the Hindus get angry that he has painted their Deities in the nude, too), I wonder where and how did he ever imagine where in the Bible there was any reference to a naked Christ. This man claims he has done research on nude Deities before formulating his drawings. I say he just wants to rile up the locals, from his self-exiled foreign perch. Shame on Mr. Pereira! UNQUOTE .AF Please see: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2010-August/196900.html This should tell you why Prof. Augusto's crusade is a facade meant only to gain cheap sympathy from a few like-minded onlookers on Goanet. Item number 5 above should be especially instructive in this regard. Do you think Prof. Augusto Pinto cares about Dr. Jose Pereira's reputation? I don't think so. This campaign, like all ideological campaigns, is driven more by hate than love. Cheers, Santosh --- On Mon, 8/2/10, augusto pinto pinto...@gmail.com wrote: Dr Santosh Helekar continues his efforts to divert attention from the death threats which the Sanathan Saunstha and the Hindu Janajagriti Samiti have issued against the Parkinson's disease afflicted 79 year old artist, scholar and philosopher, by making a big issue about the email that is reproduced below. For Santosh Helelar it is more important to focus on the hurt that a certain Sami Furtado has caused to his fragile ego, than to do anything to defend an aged scholar, philosopher, and artist like Dr. Jose Pereira. Once more Santosh, I congratulate you on the felicity of your rhetorical skills. * * * How were the 1950s, East African Goans and British Overseas Citizenship linked? Which Kenyan-Goan was one of the world fastest sprinters in the 1960s? What did the 1878 London-Lisbon treaty mean to Goa? Find your answers in Selma Carvalho's *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Buy from Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] HINDU AMERICA and POOR CHRISTIANS.........
--- On Tue, 8/3/10, M D markj...@gmail.com wrote: In America there are no anti-conversion laws and there are no christian fundamentalist who will go around bashing hindu missionaries or vandalizing hindu temples. Here in India there are anti-conversion laws and the hindu fundamentalist go around bashing christian missionaries and vandalizing churches. There are no anti-conversion laws, but there are plenty of instances of vandalism of non-Christian places of worship such as temples and mosques, as well as strong opposition to building of these structures in certain places in America. The American Christian right wing is very powerful and wealthy. Having lived amicably among them in one of their political strongholds, I would contend that they are much stronger and more organized than in India. Cheers, Santosh * * * How were the 1950s, East African Goans and British Overseas Citizenship linked? Which Kenyan-Goan was one of the world fastest sprinters in the 1960s? What did the 1878 London-Lisbon treaty mean to Goa? Find your answers in Selma Carvalho's *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Buy from Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] Fwd: Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events
Mr. Furtado, Please read these simple English words of mine slowly and carefully. I am writing them again. I do not want your apology. Cheers, Santosh P.S. BTW, what you are saying is not clear and transparent. It is muddled and murky. --- On Mon, 8/2/10, Sam Furtado sfrainbo...@gmail.com wrote: Dr. Helekar, My mail to you is clear and transparent. Everything is clear crystal for all to see. So why be so apprehensive, emphatic and specific. I feel you are stubborn and incorrigible. It's just absurd from my point of view to appologize to you for the second time and for no second reason whatsoever. So, you please don't worry, you' re reputation and dignity is fully intact and safe, only follow good principles and rules of life, then all things will be good. Sam On 8/3/10, Santosh Helekar chimbel...@yahoo.com wrote: Mr. Furtado, I do not want your apology. I simply request you to do the honorable thing, and say on Goanet that you were wrong to accuse me, and to tell me to go to a shrink. You may not care about your reputation in the public domain, but I do. Cheers, Santosh * * * Was life in the *kudds* glamourised? Who said, It appears that the Goanese (sic) are a roving people, prepared to go to any part of the world for well-paid employment? How did Goans find their first toehold in the Gulf? Find your answers in Selma Carvalho's *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Buy from Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] OBAMA FEAR's HINDU FUNDAMENTALIST's..
--- On Fri, 8/6/10, M D markj...@gmail.com wrote: Inspite of many Christian groups in America writing to Obama about the random attacks on Christians and vandalization of churches in India Obama has so far not spoken out against the Hindu fundamentalist’s or maybe Obama is not a Christian. Obama is not a Christian. It is well known that he is an Iranian Arab muslim from Kenya. Cheers, Santosh * * * Was life in the *kudds* glamourised? Who said, It appears that the Goanese (sic) are a roving people, prepared to go to any part of the world for well-paid employment? How did Goans find their first toehold in the Gulf? Find your answers in Selma Carvalho's *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Buy from Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] OBAMA FEAR's HINDU FUNDAMENTALIST's..
--- On Sat, 8/7/10, CORNEL DACOSTA cor...@btinternet.com wrote: Hi Santosh Obama has always claimed that he is a Christian. Do you have evidence that undermines his claim? Just curious that's all! Cornel Cornel, There are people who are trying to find evidence that Obama is a Manchurian candidate and an anti-Christ. I will let you know as soon as they find it. There is also a good chance that he is a North Korean Hindu Arab communist. Cheers, Santosh * * * Was life in the *kudds* glamourised? Who said, It appears that the Goanese (sic) are a roving people, prepared to go to any part of the world for well-paid employment? How did Goans find their first toehold in the Gulf? Find your answers in Selma Carvalho's *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Buy from Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] Some anti-plagiarism software
--- On Fri, 8/6/10, Gilbert Lawrence gilbert2...@yahoo.com wrote: I am sure most on the spam list were victims like me; but my special empathy goes to the Goanet moderators on the spam list. Gilbert appears to be trying to insult other Goans and members of other Goan mailing lists once again. He was asked to do the honorable thing and retract his falsehoods when he did this repeatedly the last time, and lied about one of these mailing lists on Goanet in the following post: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2010-July/196590.html Please see my earlier request for retraction: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GoenchimXapotam/message/28965 This is my third reminder to Gilbert to retract his calumny on Goanet. Furthermore, in the present post, for some reason he has also injected unnecessary confusion into the legal definition of plagiarism, without providing any reference to an authentic original source for his claims. It is clear that he has foolishly confused copyright with plagiarism. I provide below the correct legal definition of plagiarism: QUOTE Intentional or unintentional use of another's words or ideas without acknowledging this use constitutes plagiarism: There are four common forms of plagiarism: * The duplication of an author's words without quotation marks and accurate references or footnotes. * The duplication of author's words or phrases with footnotes or accurate references, but without quotation marks. * The use of an author's ideas in paraphrase without accurate references or footnotes. * Submitting a paper in which exact words are merely rearranged even though footnoted. UNQUOTE Please see - http://definitions.uslegal.com/p/plagiarism/ Cheers, Santosh --- On Fri, 8/6/10, Gilbert Lawrence gilbert2...@yahoo.com wrote: Plagiarism has well-defined legal definition. I do not know the precise clauses; but they are not whatever the know-it-all Goanetters make-up. Complying with the regulations, requires not only providing a reference or web-link; but also requires the author's and publisher's prior permission to use their work. Plagiarism also applies to using other peoples' work on the web and on one's web-site. (wink ... wink). Despite the soft-ware, plagiarism like pornography can be easily detected ... as we showed in your writing about immunization in Goa or the details about SFX in your writings. None of what you wrote was original research. Was It? The morally lowest form of ethics in plagiarism is to present someone else's work as the main basis to advance one's own standing and career - be in print, web article, website or speech. So web-surfing one or two articles, does not pass as critical reading of the subject, or qualify one to claim to be expert in that field despite repeated claims. I am not at all defending plagiarism. Yet, our Goan authorities on the topic may want to apply the plagiarism rules to themselves. Remember the famous phrase, point a finger at someone, and three fingers are pointing back. So stop being hypocritical. We have known your silly games all along. As far as hate-mail is concerned, a lot of this applies to you Dr. Colaco. Some, me included, have put you on notice to stop your crack-pot assertions; whether in jest or otherwise. From now on, you will get as good as or even worse than what you give. Please share this useful information with your family in advance. We do not want a repeat of the Toronto saga. It appears that we have seen the end of the disgusting spam mails. Some Goans felt that their brilliance gave them a god-given right to down-load their cr#p to other Goans' computers in their private study room; despite repeated polite requests to refrain from doing so. I am sure most on the spam list were victims like me; but my special empathy goes to the Goanet moderators on the spam list. Regards, GL * * * Was life in the *kudds* glamourised? Who said, It appears that the Goanese (sic) are a roving people, prepared to go to any part of the world for well-paid employment? How did Goans find their first toehold in the Gulf? Find your answers in Selma Carvalho's *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Buy from Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] OBAMA FEAR's HINDU FUNDAMENTALIST's..
Dear Vasant, Thanks for giving me evidence that Obama is a Hindu fundamentalist. I don't think he will go to Tirupati because the evidence you have provided proves that he is a Hindi/Gujarati speaking north Indian Hindu extremist. I have also found out that many of his European, Hispanic, Chinese, Middle Eastern and African appointees have links with the non-Christian governments and political parties of India because their names appear on the websites of many Indian institutions and organizations. He has also been repeatedly photographed with an Indian Arab wearing a turban, who is currently the prime minister of India. It is rumored that he has received an urn containing the water of that Indian river that is named after a disease. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sat, 8/7/10, Vasant Baliga vabal...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Vasant Baliga vabal...@yahoo.com Subject: [Goanet] OBAMA FEAR's HINDU FUNDAMENTALIST's.. To: Goanet goanet@lists.goanet.org Date: Saturday, August 7, 2010, 11:42 PM Dear Santosh, Obama has always been a closet Hindu-he appointed Sonal Shah to a high position inspite of Opposition from the Indian American secularists.She was accused of RSS links.He also has admitted carrying a Hanuman idol at all times for good luck. Last month his administration announced that it had appointed Preeta D. Bansal to serve as the Vice Chair (Government Official) of the Council of the Administrative Conference of the U.S. (ACUS). Ms. Bansal’s appointment follows closely on the heels of a similar announcement last week, of Nisha Desai Biswal, who was nominated to the post of Assistant Administrator for Asia in the U.S. Agency for International Development. When their appointments are confirmed, the two women will join the large and growing club of Indian-American and Hindu Obama appointees, which already includes Rajiv Shah, Administrator, USAID, Vivek Kundra, Federal Chief Information Officer and Aneesh Chopra, First Chief Technology Officer. There are rumours in Indonesia-that his mother secretly baptised him as a Hindu in Bali and probably this explains why his half sister is named Maya. Now one hears that he is behind the conversion of Julia Roberts to Hinduism and that the movie Eat,Pray and Love is financed by Islamic Sympathisers of Obama from the Middle East and Kenya. Watch out-there are rumours that India's God Kings will accompany the Obamas to Tirupati during his visit in November. Cheers Vasant
Re: [Goanet] Some anti-plagiarism software
Hi Gilbert, I am indeed an expert on plagiarism because as a scientific laborer I have a professional need to know and teach students, fellows and researchers who work with me what is it that constitutes plagiarism. This is because they and I have to write full length peer-reviewed original research articles and grants, as well as review the ones written by others. But as a health care laborer you do not have a professional need to know about inquisition, the history of Goan temples, the exploits of Tipu Sultan, world economics, and financial management during a recession. So how come you consider yourself an expert in all of these fields? You are also misleading Goanetters about the following things, which will not please the moderators and the authorities who are concerned about accuracy and integrity in public cyberforums: 1. You are telling Goanetters that those who place quoted material within quotes and provide proper attribution and links for them, are the ones who are plagiarizing, not the other way round. 2. You are telling Goanetters that the provision of proper original quotes and links from the internet and elsewhere, as well as proper attribution indicates that those of us who do that, do not know anything about the subject in question, and our knowledge is limited to the quotes we provide. 3. You are telling Goanetters that provision of quotes, links and attributions means that we have not understood what is written in these quotes. 4. You are implying on Goanet that because you copy and paste without using quotation marks and links, or you paraphrase someone else's writings without mentioning the sources and giving them proper credit, your writings have to be regarded as original, and you are not trying to make yourself famous by using other people's work as your own. 5. You are telling Goanetters that any response to your posts on Goanet constitutes spam. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sat, 8/7/10, Gilbert Lawrence gilbert2...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi Santosh, In one week, you are an expert on another subject. In your spam mail on this topic, you plagiarized the article about plagiarism as well as violated its copyright protection. For the former you should be ashamed. For the latter you could get financial penalties. But I digress, as previously stated, I am not an expert on this topic. They tell me that I am good. But even I know, this supurlo goenkar is not that good. I can only do one DRE (digital rectal exam) at a time. Right now I am dealing with your you-know-what. Perhaps like a good friend (providing protection when things get hard), you are doing him a 'por favor'. So once he convinces us that his writings do not fall into category of plagiarism, I will address your 'sodachem' bogus concerns and claims. Please do not tell me that his TGF (This Goan Forum) website passed through the anti-plagiarism software program. I hope our friendly expert does not go silent on us, when it comes to applying his plagiarism theories to his own practice. Till we accomplish the above, please sit on your hands and keep your fingers busy; instead of working your keyboard. Let us hope we can do the above before the weekend ends. I thought you were tired of me analyzing your writings. I certainly am. That should be a relief for you for now for another two weeks. Right now, do not come close to us. I do not know what JC will do during the DRE. And some of his could splash on you. I may have to do a two-finger DRE ... just to get a 'second opinion'.:=)) This is a likely possibility, especially if he weasels. Over the few years, he has been weaseling a lot on this topic, both on-and-off goanet. Some goanetters are likely having their weekend laughs. Please do not do it too loudly. You may wake the chickens and neighbors. Regards, GL
Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events
Mr. Furtado, Please read this slowly, noting all the correct spellings of words. Please also note that I, Santosh Helekar is posting this on a public Goan cyberforum called Goanet. Here are the meanings of the words apology and regret. apology - a written or spoken expression of one's regret, remorse, or sorrow for having insulted, failed, injured, or wronged another. ..an inferior specimen or substitute; makeshift... Please click on this link with a computer mouse to read the above dictionary definitions - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/apology regret - a sense of loss, disappointment, dissatisfaction, etc... .a feeling of sorrow or remorse for a fault, act, loss, disappointment, etc. Please see - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/regret Here is the meaning of the word retract. Please note the correct spelling. retract - ...to withdraw (a statement, opinion, etc.) as inaccurate or unjustified, esp. formally or explicitly; take back. to draw back or in Please see - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/retract Now, I did not want your apology because you refuse to believe that you are wrong, and you do not have any regret for the wrong that you have done. So I request you to retract from this thread and move on to Hindu Obama against the good Christians. Please tell me what you know in Bombay about how the first commandment to examine your conscience and make sure everything there is accounted for, ensures that the Christian fundamentalists cannot ban conversions and vandalize Hindu temples in the U. S. of A. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sun, 8/8/10, Sam Furtado sfrainbo...@gmail.com wrote: Dr. Helekar, First and foremost tell me please, in English word, what do youo mean by 'Apology and Regret', give me he definition? Secondly, who in his or her right sense would apologize for nothing or be sorry for having done nothing wrong. So why the question of you repeating that I retranct my words of having disreputed you in public domain when an apology to that should have an convincing effect on you and that should have sufficed you.. Do you feel that the specific kind of words have a special kind of forbearance on you and an apology would be less respectful and bring disrepute to your name and that retriving statement would have glorified you and cruxified me. I feel you have strange ways of getting things done, when at one stroke two birds can be felled you want two stones to do the job So, Stop this vicious cycle that would lead you nowhere and unnecessarity get an entanglement with no loose strings left. Sam --- On Sun, 8/8/10, Sam Furtado sfrainbo...@gmail.com wrote: Reading the e-mail of Mr. Mark D’ Souza, in Goanet today, in which he states ‘In America there are no anti-conversion laws and there are no Christian fundamentalist who will go around bashing Hindu Missionaries or vandalizing Hindu temples and here in India there are anti-conversion laws and the Hindu fundamentalist go around bashing Christian Missionaries and vandalizing churches’ etc is absolutely right and true what he has stated and I fully agree with him.. The cause for this could be that the Hindu Fanatics or the few rogue elements who have infiltrated the Christian religious order are afraid that in the event the Indian populace crosses to the other side of the fence and embrace Christianity, then they would loose their true identity, which presently allows them to do as the wish and pleased without having to answer to God or man, whereas in U. S. of A. first commandment examine your conscience and everything there is accounted for. Also point of Mark and which is an eye opener; is about the Indian Clergy, which includes priests, bishops, cardinals who preach from the pulpit of serving the poor with cash and kind that includes housing are instead misusing church funds and selling church properties without the knowledge of the parishioners, is a point in contention that needs to be closely investigated by the concerned authorities before it is too late and the rot sets in. Sam Furtado Bombay
Re: [Goanet] OBAMA's GOVT JULIA ROBERT's HINDU CASTE NAME.......
--- On Tue, 8/10/10, M D markj...@gmail.com wrote: Julia Roberts converting to Hinduism is not a threat to Christianity but Julia Roberts should be gracious enough to change her Christian name to Hindu name. I disagree with the assertion that Julia Roberts is not a threat to Christianity. All she has to do now is change her name. Already many Christian Goanetters and Christian Goans by birth have become Hindus e.g. Valmiki Faleiro, Radharao Gracias, Dinesh D'Souza and Pandurang Fernandes. Many others have done it by wearing sarees and lungis, and eating samosas and drinking rasam. Now with Obama becoming a Hindu fundamentalist I think the threat to Christianity has become critical. Some drastic final solution is needed as Nascimento has suggested. With so many enlightened individuals having become its members I think Goanet is the right place to come up with that solution. Cheers, Santosh --- On Tue, 8/10/10, M D markj...@gmail.com wrote: Julia Roberts converting to Hinduism is not a threat to Christianity but Julia Roberts should be gracious enough to change her Christian name to Hindu name. Unlike Taliban Al-Qaeda the Hindu Fundamentalists (rashtriya swamyamsevak sangh, vishwa hindu parishad, bajrangdal, shivsena, durga vahini, ram sene, etc) Don’t Attack AMERICAN PEOPLE this explains why the US Government, CIA FBI are not interested in monitoring the activities of the Hindu fundamentalists. The Hindu fundamentalists receive most of their funds from Hindu organizations in US, UK, Europe, Canada, Australia New Zealand. But the Western Governments are not interested in blocking these funds because the Hindu fundamentalists are NOT attacking WHITE PEOPLE. US President Barack Obama is appointing certain Hindus with RSS VHP links in his administration some Indian origin Christian Muslim groups in USA have protested but Obama is not bothered..Obama is also not bothered about the random attacks on christians and vandalization of churches in India this proves Barack Obama is not a Christian. Julia Roberts converting to Hinduism is not a threat to Christianity but Julia Roberts should be gracious enough to change her Christian name to Hindu name. Most of the Hindu Organizations in America are associated with Vishwa Hindu Parishad which is involved in anti-christian activities in India. The VHP should suggest Julia some Hindu names or maybe Christians can suggest Julia some hindu names. How about Radha Roberts. Julia Roberts childrens hindu names given by one swami when Julia was in India are - Laxmi for Hazel, Ganesh for Phinnaeus and Krishn Balram for Henry. Wonder why the swami did not give Julia a Hindu name ? And what caste now Julia belongs to – is she a Brahmin hindu or Kshatriya hindu or Vaisya hindu or Sudra Hindu or Mahar Hindu or Chambhar Hindu or Dalit Hindu ? Has Julia any knowledge of the caste system in Hinduism ? Does Julia know the origins of Hinduism ? Does Julia know who the indo-aryans were ? Does Julia know that the hindu caste system was the first form of organized apartheid in the World ? Christianity is facing certain threats from Taliban, Al-Qaeda the Hindu Fundamentalists but the biggest threat to Christianity comes from certain priests, pastors, vicars, chaplains, monsignors, deacons, bishops, cardinals who are living a luxurious lifestyle and have become more secular in their work, thought, dress, speech, sermons than the laity (lay christians). A few rogue elements who have infiltrated the Christian religious orders have destroyed centuries of sweat, tears, sacrifice and blood by hundreds of thousands of priests and nuns. Its hard to survive in the news market in India without crap news. They will show everything that doesn’t matter. 3 hours per day about bollywood and tellywood, 1 hrs per day about some magician, 3 hrs youtube videos, 5 hours superstitions, 3 hrs murders and rape. all this crap goes on and on. Thou all this news are pathetic but still if you switch it on you cant get away from it, all these craps are indeed too attractive to an average Indian. Someone needs to setup a serious TV news channel in India that can report and expose the incestuous network between the Politicians, land mafia, Builders, judiciary, police, slumlords, state bureaucracy, corporates, traders, industrialists, contractors, ias/ips officers, government officials, judicial officers, real estate developers, customs officials, excise officials, law enforcement officials, municipal ward officers, rationing officials, collectors office, etc. For decades, the United States was the bastion of Christian Values, the haven for all those who desired to be free to worship God without Government interference. However, all things Christian are now being herded into a corner and into an area of society that may well be the point of no return. The USA has replaced the God
Re: [Goanet] Some anti-plagiarism software
I don't understand either the logic or the factual basis on which Gilbert is making some really outrageous allegations against me in the post appended below, and I suspect that there might be quite a few Goanetters with professional knowledge about plagiarism and/or cancer cure who don't as well. I find his assertions to be absurd and illogical. Out of the blue, he is accusing me of fooling and lying to Goanetters, and also plagiarizing on Goanet. I would therefore like to ask him the following questions: 1. What do you know that leads you to believe that my claims on plagiarism and cancer cure are meant to fool the people? 2. Why do you believe that to claim that I have a professional need to know about plagiarism, and that I have critically read, understood and studied the latest original papers, as I did, means that I am fooling the people? 3. Why did your jaw drop when you saw my posts on cancer cure, when the jaws of other properly qualified medical professionals with knowledge about cancer, did not? Which posts are these? 4. Could you please show me the posts of mine wherein I am using a loophole to continue to plagiarize? Please have the courtesy and intellectual honesty to kindly answer these questions of mine, and defend your wild slanderous accusations against me. Cheers, Santosh --- On Wed, 8/11/10, Gilbert Lawrence gilbert2...@yahoo.com wrote: - Santosh Helekar wrote: I am indeed an expert on plagiarism because as a scientific laborer I have a professional need to know and teach students, fellows and researchers who work with me what is it that constitutes plagiarism. This is because they and I have to write full length peer-reviewed original research articles and grants, as well as review the ones written by others. GL responds: The above is similar to your line on the cancer cure discussion; where you claimed: critical reading, understanding and study of the latest original papers. Such claims do not fool those who know. To some, that sounds pretty impressive. One cannot fool ALL people for ALL the time. My jaw dropped to see your posts on cancer cure. Is that your MO? Use of anti-plagiarism software is like the 'radar gun / trapster' on the car to detect the speed traps; instead of obeying the speed limits. It appears as you have studied the topic of plagiarism, you have developed a way to circumvent (find a loophole); while continuing to plagiarize. The following however may help those who truly desire to write their thoughts and perspectives. Referring to References: This is not pointed at any individual. Hopefully it will address misconceptions and change some practices on Goanet From the article in the link below from Indiana University, there is both an acceptable AND unacceptable summation of what is written / published. The former is called Acceptable Paraphrasing (kosher / permissible). The later is called Plagiarism (non-kosher / not-OK). The terms Paraphrasing and Plagiarism is taken from the Indiana University education site. Readers may want to review the examples provided for themselves. http://www.indiana.edu/~wts/pamphlets/plagiarism.shtml If I am not mistaken, the plagiarized material was from the above link. But conveniently excluded were the two types of summations - the acceptable and unacceptable. Is this a similar to the selective but inappropriate quotes on cancer cure? Semantics aside, what is not acceptable (except for one solitary member on goanet) is WHOLESALE use of Copy and Paste even with a reference / link. Here, the author has not added anything original to the dialog / discussion other than FALSELY presenting himself as an expert on the topic d' jour (topic of the day), displaying his / her prowess at web-surfing and technology-skills; including use of software to detect plagiarism. At best, the author uses COPY AND PASTE technology rather than self-knowledge and persuasive writing skills to enlighten and expand the dialog. More likely, he / she deflects discussing the specific issue. In the dialog, he / she may tend to mis-state the issue (to suit the COPY and PASTE material), and then summarizes with bogus comments and innuendos. Does plagiarism software differentiate between the two types of summations presented in the Indiana website? I do not know, since I do not deal with such software. Software certainly helps raise a 'red flag'. Following which as the Indiana website points out, the material has to be closely analyzed by knowledgeable individuals on the subject; before any definitive conclusions are drawn. One individual is not judge, jury, and executioner; as some of the you-know-what do on goanet. The history article from Yale University (see link below) demonstrates how quote(s) from a reference should be used
[Goanet] A request to all active contributors to Goanet
I am preparing to conclude an interesting sociological research study on Goanet and similar Goan mailing lists. I will tell you all the details about it as soon as it is completed. But in order to begin the next critical phase of the study I need to ask all the active Goanet contributors for a favor. Could you please do the following for me from now on, i.e. as soon as you read this post on Goanet? Whenever you forward or post something to Goanet, could you kindly cc it to me at the following email address? chimbel...@yahoo.com Please do so each time even if you post the same thing multiple times. I would really appreciate your indulgence in this project of mine, which would hopefully give us a deeper insight into the Goan internet community. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] A request to all active contributors to Goanet
--- On Sat, 8/14/10, Bosco D bos...@canada.com wrote: RESPONSE: When did the research begin? Who decides what is interesting?? What is the research about? Which are the Goan mailing lists similar to Goanet? Five years ago. The researcher decides. About social networks, and interests, preferences, choices of social networks. GX, Goa Research Net and variable cc lists. RESPONSE: What happened to full disclosure before commencing a research study? Kuch hera-firi research hai kya?? The technical details of the study are never part of full disclosure. Full disclosure involves a general statement on the nature of the study, the risks and benefits involved, and a statement about financial conflicts of interest. General statement on the nature and benefits has been provided. There are no risks and no financial conflicts. The details cannot be revealed because revealing them affects the outcome of the study. RESPONSE: How many phases are there in this study? How many phases are completed? Two phases. None completed. RESPONSE: Favor? People participating in research studies are usually rewarded with something tangible. You want something in exchange for nothing. I want to see something tangible unlike the startup of another Spam List before I cc you anything. Not usually, but sometimes, depending on the nature of the involvement. Impersonal internet-based studies do not in most cases involve compensation. Participation is voluntary. The response from participants in such cases is usually about 20 - 30%. RESPONSE: Deeper?? Khorench?? Remember Goenkars are very smart people and already have lots of insights with or without this bizarre sounding sociological research study. The study is independent of the smartness of the participants and/or list moderators. New studies often sound bizarre to people who do not know anything about them. Considering your comment above, is your interesting sociological research study going to improve the semi-literacy level of this forum or lower it further? Just asking, maaan!! The study is independent of the literacy level of the participants and/or list moderators. It will do nothing to change it. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] CM: Nehru would have given special status
Does GoaSuraj Party believe that Goan Indians should not celebrate Indian Independence day? Is this part of its platform? Cheers, Santosh --- On Sun, 8/15/10, floriano floriano.l...@gmail.com wrote: Absolutely well said that, Agnelo Cheers floriano goasuraj 9890470896 www.goasu-raj.org for expanded scrolling Party Presentation on the Home Page. - Original Message - From: pinheiro gift.pinhe...@gmail.com To: GOA Net goanet@lists.goanet.org Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 7:19 PM Subject: [Goanet] CM: Nehru would have given special status I was not even in 1961, but history tell us Nehru and his Congress Party are biggest liars of 20th century. 'Special status' is raked time and again and brought to forefront when elections are around only to be dumped after election. Why Digu Kaka remembers the dead dream this 15th August 2010. BTW, what is the significance of 15th August 1947 Independence of India to Goans which was under Portuguese rule and was not part of India? Should Goans really be celebrating Independence of India which preached 'Ahimsa' to the world but 14 years later used military force to occupy Goa? Agnelo
Re: [Goanet] Caste and Creed
Nascimento, Can you please explain to Vasant and Sameer why you believe Indian cuisine, Indian cooking and Indian attire, such as poodvem, lungi, angostor, saadi and kaapod are primitive, lowly, uncivilized and unenlightened? Cheers, Santosh --- On Mon, 8/16/10, Nascy Caldeira nascy...@yahoo.com.au wrote: Dear Vasant, U remove the 'serious causes' that are making me point out the Bad things Indian, and I will have no reason to indulge in pointing them out. OK? I have said that U and Sameer have mixed up deliberately, freedom of religion issues etc, with Caste and Casteism practices. Why do U want to confuse and mislead readers? I am trying to be objective against these evils in Hindu society. U think I enjoy writing about these things? NO! I cry when I see such inhumane prejudices are being practiced in the Land of my birth. U guys are impervious to this; as U are one of them. OR Renounce Casteism and Seperatism now. OK? and Redeem yourselves. Are U trying to defend the indefensible? Why do U not answer my question: What is your choice? a casteless society with no caste; or a society where everyone is a brahmin, or everyone is a sudhir. U have not even attenpted to answer the above. Until such time that the whole of India is not a casteless society, I will campaign for it and take it to the world at large, to take action like the world did against South Africa against Racism and Apartheid. The Indian version is worse, as the same is entrenched for centuries by their own people. Indian against Indian. Nascy. --- On Mon, 16/8/10, Vasant Baliga vabal...@yahoo.com wrote: Dear Nascy, Hinduism is one of the oldest and most humane religions-like other religions,it has it's faultlines,caste being one of them and like other religions,it has it's extremist loonies who discredit the religion.The vast majority of Hindus are peaceloving,compassionate and very considerate to all.That will never change- inspite of your statements to the contrary.India's polity testifies to that. I have repeatedly said that Caste has no place in our lives-I do not claim any caste and it is irrelevant to me-Caste is an accident of birth and is abominable.Our family consider ourselves Global Citizens with an open mind and Caste,Creed and Religion is of no consequence to us-good and decent human beings who respect one another are. Best Regards Vasant Baliga
Re: [Goanet] Caste and Creed
Nascimento, I know the truth. I think it hurts you, not me. Why are you afraid to tell Vasant and Sameer that truth about yourself? Can you please answer my question for them? Cheers, Santosh --- On Tue, 8/17/10, Nascy Caldeira nascy...@yahoo.com.au wrote: Santosh, No need to respond to U here. U are gone off track, as usaual. The greatest Twister of facts on Goan cyber forums. Do U know how to do the TWIST. If not please learn and do it; that way the forums will be rid of your faulty logic. Hah hah! I think U are finding that 'the truth hurts'!!! I hope it hurts very badly. Sabash! Nascimento. --- On Tue, 8/17/10, Nascy Caldeira nascy...@yahoo.com.au wrote: Santosh, No need to respond to U here. U are gone off track, as usaual. The greatest Twister of facts on Goan cyber forums. Do U know how to do the TWIST. If not please learn and do it; that way the forums will be rid of your faulty logic. Hah hah! I think U are finding that 'the truth hurts'!!! I hope it hurts very badly. Sabash! Nascimento. --- On Tue, 17/8/10, Santosh Helekar chimbel...@yahoo.com wrote: Nascimento, Can you please explain to Vasant and Sameer why you believe Indian cuisine, Indian cooking and Indian attire, such as poodvem, lungi, angostor, saadi and kaapod are primitive, lowly, uncivilized and unenlightened? Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Fw: Can José Pereira be anti-Hindu ?
--- On Tue, 8/17/10, Ivo icso...@bsnl.in wrote: I have taken part in their seminars and spoken in english, hindi and marathi (my knowledge is only smattering in these languages, yet I used to prepare with the help of my students), in favour of religious dialogue, without falling into a wrong concept of all religions are equal... Why is all religions are equal a wrong concept in a secular country? Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Fw: Can José Pereira be anti-Hindu?
--- On Tue, 8/17/10, Frederick Noronha fredericknoro...@gmail.com wrote: * Can a believer in a monotheistic religion be compelled to believe that all religions are equal? Nobody can be compelled to believe anything in free secular democracy. But people have the freedom to persuade others to believe or not to believe, and peacefully convert them to their own beliefs or lack thereof. * In what way is a secularism (where the State is expected to be neutral to all religions) related to the belief that all religions are equal or otherwise? --FN In a secular country the state is supposed to treat all religious beliefs as equal, and not look favorably upon any particular set of beliefs. So back to my original question again. Why is all religions are equal a wrong concept in a secular country? Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Fw: Can José Pereira be anti-Hindu?
--- On Tue, 8/17/10, Frederick Noronha fredericknoro...@gmail.com wrote: You seem to be mixing up issues here between what is a practical policy for a secular State (particularly one like India) to adopt, and what Fr Ivo (as a believer in a monotheistic religion) has a right to personally believe if he so chooses. I am not mixing up issues at all. The extraneous issues were brought into this discussion by you. My question is simple, and it applies to a secular country as a whole, as I have clearly mentioned, not to Fr. Ivo, to you or to any specific individual. Since the statement was made in the context of an interfaith dialogue, it is necessary to ask the question I asked from a pluralist secular point of view. I do not care about the parochial point of view of any particular religion. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Caste and Creed
--- On Tue, 8/17/10, Nascy Caldeira nascy...@yahoo.com.au wrote: Vasant has delared he does not believe in caste and or casteism, he is just born into it. He is a good man.. I accept that. Nascimento, Are you a good man? Do Vasant and Sameer believe you are a good man? Cheers, Santosh --- On Tue, 8/17/10, Nascy Caldeira nascy...@yahoo.com.au wrote: Santosh, (the pretender Agnostic) Why should I tell anyone, anything. I have written to the Forum. Vasant has delared he does not believe in caste and or casteism, he is just born into it. He is a good man.. I accept that. But U Santosh the twister has made no such declaration. Why? because U are a Casteist? Or are you a Sudhir masquerading as a brahmin or neo brahmin? I am not particularly interested in what U are. I am interested in forging a Casteless Society in India. And as for me, I am who I am. Not a Casteist! A concerned Indian for the welfare and freedom of the masses from Dominating Castes. I hope YOU will do likewise. Nascy Caldeira --- On Wed, 18/8/10, Santosh Helekar chimbel...@yahoo.com wrote: Nascimento, I know the truth. I think it hurts you, not me. Why are you afraid to tell Vasant and Sameer that truth about yourself? Can you please answer my question for them? Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Some anti-plagiarism software
This post of mine is a balanced and fair response to a flame bait and gratuitous personal attack already published on Goanet, the link to which is provided below: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2010-August/197330.html Gilbert, Seeing your spam mail, and what you have written about the science of cancer in it on this spam list made my jaw drop. You do not understand what you READ or write:)) You stand on the shoulders of experts like me without digesting, and make yourself famous. It is like those Goan professors who copy western people and novelists because of their white skin, and Ph.D. students who do not tell us that there were only a few temples in Goa, and they were all on the hills. When the Portuguese boats fired canons some canon balls accidentally destroyed the temples. And the inquisition was because only a few criminals had to be punished. It is like not knowing the fact that our grandmother knew about cancer cure, and that she was an accurate scientist. We called it petoita murre when permission was not asked to self-plagiarize. This tells a supurlo goencar like moi why all Goanetters think that your posts are crackpot posts, and that you are not an animal-trainer in the three ring circus that is Goanet:)):)):)) Thanks for admitting that you could either be an animal-trainer or a clown. Can you tell us the name of the person who registered your spam post on the internet, and its registration number? This is like breaking a Goanet rule, or not knowing that all you need to do for pneumonia is drink chicken soup. Moderators and Goanetters, please excuse my to-the-point explanations. Gilbert, ALL Goanetters know that I AM a ring master in THIS circus, and you are not an animal-trainer. As you said to another Goan in answering THE questions I had asked you in my last post, If in the process, I publicly question your upbringing and the integrity of your parents and your family, that will not be my fault. This is like finding a loophole in the legal definition of cancer cure because you are a cancer therapist, and continuing to use that hole instead of curing cancer:)):-))(())(() It is also the same as when you said on another registered or unregistered spam mail that you sent to your friend and bodyguard that you will publicly respond to (his) abuse and may even escalate it with statements that will make a sailor blush. In Part 2 of this post I will explain what happens when things get hard at night in the middle of a worldwide recession, and there is no supporter. Cheers, Santosh --- On Thu, 8/12/10, Gilbert Lawrence gilbert2...@yahoo.com wrote: Santosh, thanks for asking me the questions. And then answering them for me yourself. To quote YOU! Here is what YOU recently wrote to another Goan: Of course, as you know I treat Goanet as a three ring circus anyway. More crackpot posts on it the merrier. So, you concede that your posts are crackpot. With the above comment, you answer many of questions you put to me. This, after telling us how learned you are and how highly skilled your writings. Santosh, thanks for the honesty about yourself and your posts. If you think goanet is a three-ring circus, do you consider yourself an animal-trainer or a clown? You are certainly not a passive observer watching from the stands. Very nice way for a very intelligent guy to spend in a three ring circus, up-teen hours a week, week-after-week over the last several decades. Goa's scientist is slandering himself ... and the rest of us. Now before you get bent our of shape. Yes I intially used the phrase crackpot post. Based on past performance, your friend (provides protection when things get hard) may even accuse you of plagiarism (for re-using my word). Yes I know that is daft; but that is his logic. That is why I directed that term of crackpot post specifically to him - your friend (provides protection when things get hard). Regards, GL
Re: [Goanet] Can Jose Pereira be anti-Hindu?
--- On Wed, 8/18/10, Frederick Noronha fredericknoro...@gmail.com wrote: I disagree with Santosh's attempts to mix both up, or the suggestion that one's religious views would be decided by the State's approach to a [parallel] matter. This is Admin Noronha's fabricated view of what my attempts have been. He has tried to put words in my mouth twice now. So once again, my attempts have nothing to do with what he is claiming here. I don't know how to be more clear than I have already been in this thread. Let me now just say flat out that I have never suggested that one's religious views would be decided by the State's approach to a [parallel] matter. I don't even understand what this statement he has put in my mouth means. As a secular pluralist, I believe that one's religious views are his/her own problem, as long as they do not cause harm to humanity. All I have been saying is that, as the Prime Minister stated, the secular Indian constitution rightly holds that all religions are equal. I don't care what Fr. Ivo's parochial Catholic beliefs, Dr. Barad's parochial Hindu beliefs or Admin Noronha's parochial Atheist/Agnostic beliefs are on this matter. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] A request to all active contributors to Goanet
The sad false insinuation appended below from a poster called Jim Fernandes is because of the bogus personal issue that this poster has created against me out of whole cloth. It is also because he has no clue what this research is about, and is completely ignorant about how such research is conducted. He is deceiving Goanetters about my intentions, and about the simple fact that one does not need to have them cc their posts to me in order to create a mailing list, if that was my intention. The reason I have requested Goanetters to cc their Goanet posts to me is explained in the following response to Teotoniobab on Goa Research Net: QUOTE Hi Teotoniobab, Thanks for your interest in the study. I can access all the final posts in this forum on the web. But there is a technical reason for my asking prospective participants to cc me their posts, in addition. Without revealing it in any great detail because such disclosure has the potential to affect the outcome of the study, I can say that I am attempting to compare apples with apples here, and to avoid comparing apples with oranges, given the fact that my focus is social communication networks formed in 4 different kinds of public mailing lists around common topics, interests and preferences. The 4 kinds of lists are: 1. A moderated general purpose list with rules. 2. A moderated special purpose list with rules. 3. An unmoderated general purpose list with rules. 4. An unmoderated general purpose list without rules. I do not have access to an unmoderated special purpose list without rules. Otherwise, I would have included that as well. Cheers, Santosh UNQUOTE Please see - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goa-research-net/message/6408 Cheers, Santosh --- On Wed, 8/18/10, Jim Fernandes amigo...@att.net wrote: Jeevan R, The sad thing is that the original requester on this thread, is using GoaNet to legalize his method of building another of his SPAM lists. I have been there - so I know it. If one wants to conduct research on GoaNet postings, the researcher can simply go data-mining on GoaNet archives. Why have all this elaborate ploy? Now do you see where I am coming from? :) -- - Seb dc, Contrary to popular belief, I view 'crab mentality' phenomenon as simply a natural survival process. Crabs are simply trying to escape from the bucket by using whatever method they see fit. It has nothing to do with bringing down a stronger crab by a weaker crab in a bucket, where all crabs in the bucket face certain death. Given my above views on survival instincts, I don't understand what crab mentality you are talking about in this situation The desired information is already out there in GoaNet archives. Jim F New York.
Re: [Goanet] A request to all active contributors to Goanet
Hi Admin Noronha, Thanks for letting me know that Brittos and BSG-Goa, of which I am not a member are public access unmoderated special purpose Goan mailing lists without rules. I can certainly use them. Cheers, Santosh --- On Thu, 8/19/10, Frederick Noronha fredericknoro...@gmail.com wrote: On 19 August 2010 17:47, Santosh Helekar chimbel...@yahoo.com wrote: 4. An unmoderated general purpose list without rules. I do not have access to an unmoderated special purpose list without rules. Otherwise, I would have included that as well. How about http://groups.yahoo.com/group/brittos or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bsg-goa Even if these don't exactly fit what you're looking out for, I'm sure there would be others too. See http://wikiwikiweb.de/MailingListsInIndia Also, will your study be covering: 1. Partly moderated lists (where some of the members are moderated)? 2. Lists whose public archives are not publicly available? 3. Non-publicised, by-invite-only CC lists which are run without server-based software, but which function as un-unsubscribeable mailing lists of sorts? Incidentally, the first real sociological study on Goanet, for those who might be interested, is here: http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/goanet-news-goanet.org/2003-August/000276.html
Re: [Goanet] A request to all active contributors to Goanet
Sorry for not noticing some questions that Admin Noronha had asked. Here are my answers. --- On Thu, 8/19/10, Frederick Noronha fredericknoro...@gmail.com wrote: Also, will your study be covering: 1. Partly moderated lists (where some of the members are moderated)? There is no technical difference between such a list, and an already included list wherein most members are moderated, but the moderators, administrators, owner(s) and some members may not be. 2. Lists whose public archives are not publicly available? If I don't have access to them, I cannot use them. 3. Non-publicised, by-invite-only CC lists which are run without server-based software, but which function as un-unsubscribeable mailing lists of sorts? Yes. I will use lists to which I have access. Incidentally, the first real sociological study on Goanet, for those who might be interested, is here: http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/goanet-news-goanet.org/2003-August/000276.html I remember reading this excellent scholarly article on Goanet. But this is a qualitative description of the activities of the Goan cyber-commmunity. What I have initiated is a quantitative cyber-Goa-focused study of formation of social networks involving such things as word frequencies, sizes of networks, number of nodes, number of connections, evolution of networks and of shared terms and topics over time, etc. I am attaching privately to Admin Noronha a copy of a research paper detailing a related but different version (and a little bit more computationally sophisticated version) of what I am talking about. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] A request to all active contributors to Goanet
This Jim Fernandes is now abusing Dr. Teotonio D'Souza because of another of his personal problems, in this case with Dr. D'Souza, and totally unrelated to the current thread. Fernandes is also misleading Goanetters about the simple fact that I had merely cced a few posts on a Goanet thread to him, and to another Goan mailing list. I have already given him permission to cc or post whatever posts of mine he is referring to as spam. Upon reading them, all objective Goanetters will realize what kind of a joke this fabricated personal issue is, and where the problem lies. Cheers, Santosh --- On Thu, 8/19/10, Jim Fernandes amigo...@att.net wrote: It's not 'bogus' personal issue. It's a fact. Any GoaNetter wanting copies of the SPAM I received, can write to me privately and I shall be glad to forward the crap to whoever who is interested. I should point though, that the SPAMMING has stopped after a relentless fight. I don't like to bring in third parties in my discussions - since Senhor Helekar brought in Teotonio into this thread, I have some serious issues with the credibility of Teotonio's views and his writings about the Portuguese. If Teotonio disliked Portuguese rule in Goa, please go ask him why he took Portuguese citizenship. I wouldn't go to Teotonio for any sort of advice, considering he didn't practice what he preached. Jim F New York Sent from my iPhone On Aug 19, 2010, at 8:17 AM, Santosh Helekar chimbel...@yahoo.com wrote: The sad false insinuation appended below from a poster called Jim Fernandes is because of the bogus personal issue ., ... Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] All religions cannot be equal
A lot of the material in the post appended below has been selectively lifted verbatim from a blogger named Siddhartha from Bangalore, without giving him credit, without putting his text in quotation marks, and without providing a link to one of his webpages containing this text. Please see for example: http://pipaltree.org.in/index.php?page=the-equality-of-religions Moreover, the funny thing is that what he has quoted from Gandhi vindicates the secular pluralistic position of both Gandhi and the Indian constitution i.e. all religions are equal - equal before the law and equally good. Cheers, Santosh --- On Wed, 8/18/10, Ivo icso...@bsnl.in wrote: ***This is not a value judgment given by Manmohan Singh, it is alien to his speech. How can Manmohan Singh have a say on this topic? When we take part in the interfaith dialogue, we share our religious insights, precisely because our religions are not equal. This is a crass, supine blunder. The believers of different religions pledge to work for harmony and peace, for the human integral development.We come together on the concept of Kingdom of God (Ramarajya or Golden Age). The task of establishing the Kingdom of God, the New Society is not a monopoly of Christian communities. The Kingdom is the concern of everyone: individuals, society, and the world. Christian communities are called to work, in solidarity with others, for the establishment of a New Society, the Kingdom of God. ...just as all human beings are equal. When we view each other as equals, we try to live in harmony. **Yes, all human beings are equal (in humanity and human rights), before the Law. Yet India does not recognize it in practice. (Manmohan Singh, Prime Minister of India). Manmohan Singh is not giving a value-judgement about world religions, but a socio-political-legal statement. Would he accept that Sikhism and polythetistic Hinduism are equal, equally good, equally acceptable to him? Would you accept that Hinduism, agnosticism and atheism (which is based on faith, not in science) are equallly good? Atheism, agnosticism, marxism are called quasi-religions. Great thinkers such as Vivekananda and Mahatma Gandhi have also espoused the equality of all religions. ***You are absolutely wrong. 1. The Constitution of India does not says that all religions are equal, or equally good. WE, THE PEOPLE OF INDIA, having solemnly resolved to constitute India into a SOVEREIGN SOCIALIST SECULAR DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC and to secure to all its citizens: JUSTICE, social, economic and political; LIBERTY of thought, expression, belief, faith and worship; EQUALITY of status and of opportunity; and to promote among them all FRATERNITY assuring the dignity of the individual and the unity and integrity of the Nation; IN OUR CONSTITUENT ASSEMBLY this twenty-sixth day of November, 1949, DO HERE BY ADOPT, ENACT AND GIVE TO OURSELVES THIS CONSTITUTION. The art.14 says: Equality before law: The State shall not deny to any person equality before the law or the equal protection of the laws within the territory of India Prohibition of discrimination on grounds of religion, race, caste, sex or place of birth. 2. Swami Vivekananda and Mahatma Gandi spoke always in the context of communal harmony: As different streams, having their sources in different places, all mingle their water in the sea, so, O Lord, the different paths which men take through different tendencies, various though they appear, crooked or straight, all lead to Thee. In his speech in Chicago, Swami Vivekananda said: I will quote to you, brethren, a few lines from a hymn which I remember to have repeated from my earliest boyhood, which is every day repeated by millions of human beings: As the different streams having their sources in different paths which men take through different tendencies, various though they appear, crooked or straight, all lead to Thee. The present convention, which is one of the most august assemblies ever held, is in itself a vindication, a declaration to the world of the wonderful doctrine preached in the Gita: Whosoever comes to Me, through whatsoever form, I reach him; all men are struggling through paths which in the end lead to me. Sectarianism, bigotry, and its horrible descendant, fanaticism, have long possessed this beautiful earth. They have filled the earth with violence, drenched it often and often with human blood, destroyed civilization and sent whole nations to despair. Had it not been for these horrible demons, human society would be far more advanced than it is now. But their time is come; and I fervently hope that the bell that tolled this morning in honor of this convention may be the death-knell of all fanaticism, of all persecutions with the sword or with the pen, and of all uncharitable feelings between persons wending their way to the same goal.
Re: [Goanet] A request to all active contributors to Goanet
I am refuting below all the bogus claims made by Fernandes. --- On Thu, 8/19/10, Jim Fernandes amigo...@att.net wrote: Helekar brought in Teotonio to bolster his argument that he is dealing with a supposed Goan intellect and therefore my line of questioning Helekar's motive, would become off-limits. The above is pure nonsense. Teotoniobab's name was included because I was copying and pasting a response to his comment on Goa Research Net. My response explained exactly what I wanted to say about the study. Inclusion of his name does not give Fernandes a license to abuse Teotoniobab on Goanet. For the record, I only stated facts about Teotonio - there is no question of abusing him in any way. A more interesting commentary on Teotonio is available at http://www.colaco.net/1/FredVdG.htm . This is a falsehood. What Fernandes has stated is his ignorant negative opinion about Teotoniobab. Please see his quote below: I have some serious issues with the credibility of Teotonio's views and his writings about the Portuguese. Jim Fernandes What credibility or scholarship does Fernandes have to question the credibility of Dr. Teotoniobab De Souza on Portuguese history? My response: Merely cced a few posts ? Hello? I had cced exactly 8 posts to Fernandes along with members of another Goan mailing list on two related topics that originated on Goanet. Most, if not all of these posts were already posted on Goanet. It took me a month or more, to stop the SPAM completely. Since Helekar included my email ID in his SPAM list to begin with, it was his duty to ensure my ID was taken off of it upon my request. He didn't. This is a blatant falsehood. I removed Fernandes' name from the cc list as soon as he announced that he did not want to be on it. My first cced post to him on that list was on July 2nd and my last cced post to him was on July 5th. So it is exactly 3 days, not a month or more as he claims. As far as his receiving emails from others in other threads which were cced to me, is concerned, I can see that the last email by others was on July 25th, so again Fernandes is deliberately deceiving Goanetters, even on that front. In that time we received the most filthy and obnoxious email on that mailing list from Fernandes, and public threats against me on Goanet, as well as against another Goanetter on that list. Any sensible Goanetter would realize exactly where the problem and blame lie in this case. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Medjugorje Visions Proven Not A Deception
The claims made about the so-called scientific studies in the links below are not credible from the neurophysiological standpoint. Electroencephalography (EEG) cannot tell us whether there is deception or not. It cannot also tell us whether there is self-deception or not. The purported scientific results in this case have not been published in any scientific journal. In fact, the scientist whose name is mentioned in these links has not published any research paper on EEG in general in the peer-reviewed medical scientific literature. As far as Medjugorge is concerned, there are only two brief letters referring to this place in the medical literature. Both of them have to do with damage to the eyes of some pilgrims caused by gazing at the sun for long periods of time, hoping to see the miraculous apparitions. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sat, 8/14/10, Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão drferdina...@hotmail.com wrote: Any scientific person in this fora who has better better knowledge to refute this claim? http://deaconjohn1987.blogspot.com/2010/03/medjugorje-visions-proven-not-deception.html And more tests: http://www.medjugorje.com/medjugorje/scientific-studies/627-specific-tests-administered-to-the-medjugorje-visionaries-and-their-results.html Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ISSUES BEING DEBATED: In East Africa, despite colonialism, the British afforded the Goan a sliver of a socio-political voice. Read *Into The Diaspora Wilderness* by Selma Carvalho. Soon to be available in Toronto. Pp 290. Via mail-order from goa1...@gmail.com http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/
[Goanet] Correcting misinformation regarding cancer
The logical and factual problems with the post appended below should be obvious to any rational person. I list them below because such brazen adherence to, and promotion of, scientific ignorance have become hazardous to public health in the internet age. Many people might unwittingly fall for this material because of the pretensions of its author, and seek quack treatments and miracle cures for scientifically curable cancers such as choriocarcinoma, Hodgkin's lymphoma and childhood acute lymphoid leukemia. 1. The author who has no familiarity with the current state of knowledge in scientific medicine makes a categorical statement about lack of evidence on cancer cures. When I present evidence from the current medical literature and from one of the world's renowned cancer institutes, which clearly shows that he is wrong, he defiantly declares that he is not interested in this evidence, and in medical literature in general. When I point out the absurdity of this assertion, he lashes out at me with spurious accusations and innuendo about my reference to somebody else's atheism. 2. Without reading any of the medical evidence I have provided and the peer-reviewed literature that I am referring to, the author falsely claims that it comes from one unknown university. I doubt if he even knows which university this is, and which universities of the world are known and unknown. But the important fact is that the information I had provided is common knowledge in the field of cancer therapy and research. It has not come from just one university. This practical knowledge disseminated by world-renowned cancer organizations and centers has been the result of decades of research in the best universities and institutions of the world. 3. The author is oblivious of the absurdity of his claim that people ought to trust his personal observations and anecdotes rather than the collective experience and objective knowledge in cancer science and medicine. Please see this preposterous assertion: I said that I am not 'interested in the published evidence', because it contradicts totally what we are witnessing here. ...Fr. Ivo In other words, here is a man who willfully rejects scientific evidence gathered by the best cancer experts in the world because it contradicts his own parochial beliefs, experiences and anecdotes. What's more, he has no compunction about ignoring the anecdotes and experiences of others who have been cured of various types of curable cancers, including many Goanetters such as Mario and Viviana. BTW, since this thread refers to Ted Kennedy, I should point out that Ted Kennedy's own son was cured of bone cancer in 1973. I have scores of anecdotes of my own, but genuine science ought to rely only on properly collected objective evidence. So to summarize, the author of the post appended below believes he possesses some special wisdom that the real specialists in the fields of cancer and medical science do not possess. He adamantly and irrationally clings to his own insular ideas and uneducated hunches despite overwhelming scientific evidence to the contrary. Moreover, in his version of reality the only anecdotes that count are his own, and only those that confirm his preconceived beliefs. Coming back to my original point, it shouldn't be hard to understand why acting on a belief in such a worldview might kill a person who suffers from a form of cancer that is known to be curable. Cheers, Santosh --- On Fri, 8/28/09, isouza icso...@sancharnet.in wrote: ***This is another blatant example of how the scientist Dr.Santosh can take the statement out of context and misunderstand the authors. This was the classical procedure with the text of the Cardinal Cormack Murphy-O'Connor, who was turned into an atheist... I have not made any bogus categorical claims... From our experience in India (including Goa), people are dying of cancer in spite of all modern Western treatment. I said that I am not interested in the published evidence, because it contradicts totally what we are witnessing here. What is the use of reading the scientific evidence given by the scientists in the American corner, if we are losing people everyday to cancer. I am meeting everyday people who have no hope of being cured of cancer... What is the value and authority of the genuine medical literature if these people find no medical cure? It is not wilful ignorance of scientific evidence, but the fact is that I find no evidence with the patients that I know... and, therefore, I am skeptical of the barrage of selected articles (from an unknown University), presented by a physician without any experience in oncology.
Re: [Goanet] Religion and Tolerance
--- On Tue, 9/1/09, Cajetan Alvares cajul...@googlemail.com wrote: Who demolished the statue of Buddha, in Afghanistan? Who wants to demolish the Babri temple? Who else? Violent criminals and fanatics. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Goans lived in misery under Portuguese
Teotoniobab is a highly qualified, recognized and accomplished Goan historian. I hope people would offer substantive criticisms and refutations of his work rather than smear him like spoiled children. Cheers, Santosh --- On Tue, 9/1/09, sallesfons...@sapo.pt sallesfons...@sapo.pt wrote: The main purpose of Fr. Theotónio is to blame Portugal and nothing else! However, he lives in Portugal and is paid by a portuguese University. Of course he is not a recognisable historian because of his partiality. Henrique Salles da Fonseca Lisboa - PORTUGAL
Re: [Goanet] Religion and Tolerance
--- On Tue, 9/1/09, Cajetan Alvares cajul...@googlemail.com wrote: So, you do admit that Advani amd the rest of the BJP gang are violent criminals and fanatics? Yes. Why not write to them instead of on Goanet? Write what to them? Writing to us here is not going to help. Who are you? Who do you mean by us? Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Religion and Tolerance
--- On Tue, 9/1/09, Frederick [FN] Noronha * फ्रेडरिक न fredericknoro...@gmail.com wrote: I believe every religious and non-religious ideology (including secularism and Science!) has its own phases of bigotry and intolerance. What are the phases of bigotry and intolerance of secularism and science? Please describe them in at least a couple of paragraphs. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Religion and Tolerance
--- On Tue, 9/1/09, Frederick [FN] Noronha * फ्रेडरिक न fredericknoro...@gmail.com wrote: A bigot is a person who is obstinately and irrationally, often intolerantly, devoted to his or her own religion, political party, organization, belief, or opinion, especially one who regards or treats those of differing devotion with hatred and intolerance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigotry Noronha claimed in his previous post that science is an ideology which has gone through phases of bigotry and intolerance, just like religious and political ideologies that we have seen in the past and are still seeing today. If he was really sincere and honest in his claims as a journalist, he would have given examples of fanatical scientific organizations or a group of scientists that are similar to Bajrang Dal, Al Quaida, Phineas Priesthood, etc. Not able to substantiate his statement he is reduced to accusing Goanetters like me who are merely stating facts and opinions in an internet forum, and sharing what little we know with our fellow Goans, of being bigoted and intolerant. Noronha wants you to believe that defending and promoting the rational scientific mindset, debunking quackery and correcting misinformation in a public forum is morally equivalent to being bigoted and intolerant like the ideological extremists who want to ban books, destroy works of art, threaten artists or kill innocent people. Is this a new advancement in moral and cultural relativism? Please read the definition of bigotry he has provided above. By applying this definition to me, he implies that I am bigoted because according to him I am irrational and intolerant, and I treat those with differing devotion with hatred. And all I am doing is contributing posts to Goanet using sober language. Are we dealing with a rare exception here or are there many journalists in this world who are willing to twist and dilute the definitions of bigotry and hatred in this manner? Cheers, Santosh --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Frederick [FN] Noronha * फ्रेडरिक न fredericknoro...@gmail.com wrote: The Science-can-do-no-wrong, if-it-does-wrong-it-is-not-Science, the-rest-of-the-world-has-to-be-corrected-to-my-way-of-thinking we've seen (even on Goanet) makes me feel that Science might sometimes have the same arrogance that we accuse (probably not wrongly) the world of religion or communalism or politics or nationalism. As for 'secularism', there are many interpretations of what this term means. In the Indian context, the militant attempt at debunking religious views, seems to have pushed believers only deeper into the arms of the fundamentalists. This is only my opinion. Please don't Galelio-ise me for it! Besides, I obviously don't have the proof necessary to subject these views through the tests necessary for making this work as Scientific Evidence. But since you asked my views nonetheless, and a quote from the W'pedia! FN
Re: [Goanet] Houston: Joe Fernandes' murder caught on video
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Two new showrooms/office spaces, double height (135 sq m each with bath) for lease in upscale Campal/Miramar beach area, Panaji, Goa. Contact: goaengineer...@aol.com Eddie, Thanks for letting us know about this tragic news story. I will make inquiries with people in the know here, and see what we can do to help his poor wife. Nothing to cheer about, Santosh --- On Wed, 9/2/09, Eddie Fernandes ed...@fernandes.u-net.com wrote: Source: Goan Voice Daily Newsletter 2 September 2009. 1 Sep: ABC Local. It was the first day of work for 54-year-old Joe Fernandes. he came face to face with three gunmen who robbed him, then murdered him. In the surveillance video, you can see the masked men jump behind the counter and harass Fernandes for money before shooting him dead. He was a family man, the father of a daughter and tragically a son who was killed a year prior. For text and video see http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/localid=6992838 John Fernandes was murdered in Missouri in Aug 2008. For details see http://www.spiceislander.com/?p=568 Joe Fernandes was born in Candolim, Goa. He married Agnes and they had two children, the late John and Tina. The family lived in Kuwait and moved to US in 2000. For a photo of Joe Fernandes see http://goanvoice.org.uk/newsletter/2009/September/2009_September_02.html Eddie Fernandes
[Goanet] Important information for Goan cancer patients
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Two new showrooms/office spaces, double height (135 sq m each with bath) for lease in upscale Campal/Miramar beach area, Panaji, Goa. Contact: goaengineer...@aol.com Here is some important information regarding cancer that Goans and Goanetters should know because cancer is a serious disease that affects the lives of many Goans. Objective evidence obtained by rational and empirical research has shown that cancer is permanently curable if treated as early as possible and proper modern scientific medical treatment sought, without relying on anecdotes, gossip, false beliefs and fairy tales. By conducting painstaking and rigorous scientific research over the past decade or so, genuine cancer physicians and epidemiologists, prominent among whom is Prof. Hermann Brenner of Heidelberg, have determined that the permanent cure rate for all common solid cancers is 38% to 59% in women and 21% to 47% in men. For specific common cancers the cure rates are as follows: Breast cancer - 55% to 73% Prostate cancer - 14% to 63% Colon and rectum cancer - 25% to 49% Stomach cancer - 9% to 30% Lung cancer - 4% to 13% These cure rates were calculated by a European Working Group of 168 scientists, including Brenner, by studying registry data from hundreds of thousands of patients in 18 countries of Europe. If anybody wants to read this paper published just 4 months ago, I would be happy to send you a copy. Here's the reference: Francisci, S., R. Capocaccia, et al. (2009). The cure of cancer: a European perspective. Eur J Cancer 45(6): 1067-79. I would also be happy to provide data on other cancers, and explain how cure rates are calculated. It should be a good exercise to counter the bogus information disseminated through this public forum. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Act against Hate Speech
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Two new showrooms/office spaces, double height (135 sq m each with bath) for lease in upscale Campal/Miramar beach area, Panaji, Goa. Contact: goaengineer...@aol.com --- On Fri, 9/4/09, Sandeep Heble sandeephe...@gmail.com wrote: One fails to understand why the Government is treating this group with kid gloves, especially since its own leaders like Manmohan Singh and Sonia Gandhi have been shown in extremely humbling and embarrassing postures. These visual illustrations are deliberate attempts to insult, wound and provoke the feelings of entire communities and those responsible for the same need to be dealt with sternly and severely. In the face of such provocative illustrations, will the Government act against these groups? The true “Secular test” of the present Government lies therein! I agreed by and large with almost everything that Sandeep wrote until I came to the above two paragraphs. First, in a free country the government should not have the power to take action against private citizens or political groups for selfish and political reasons. Everybody has the right to criticize the government and to show those in power in bad light, even if it is unfair. I thought our recent petition in support of Samir said as much. Second, unless there are explicit threats or direct incitement of violence, no secular democratic government should have the authority to crack down on any private citizen or group. This is not a secular test. It is being on a slippery slope to autocracy and repressive regime. Cheers, Santosh
[Goanet] Great Goan minds
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Two new showrooms/office spaces, double height (135 sq m each with bath) for lease in upscale Campal/Miramar beach area, Panaji, Goa. Contact: goaengineer...@aol.com Here is a joke that describes a recent situation on Goanet much better. One day God felt left out of a discussion, and wanted to once again make it known to Goanetters that indeed, he was the real great Goan mind, especially on cancer, the greatest of them all. He wanted to show that he was above it all, looking down at the lesser minds, and laughing and joking at their ignorance. So he decided to step down from his high Huffington post to intervene in a petty discussion on Goanet between two lesser minds to tell humanity a childish potty joke involving His vicar and two lost children, so everybody would understand who the genuine authority on the subject under discussion is. And now, one of the lesser minds, believing on faith rather than evidence that God was on his side has paid his homage to Him. He has humbly accepted the fact that he is an ignoramus before God. He has told Him that he missed Him this time, and expressed the faith-based conviction that the two are not only like-minded, as in great minds think alike, but supurle Goencar - a term that is pleasing to God's ears, as is evident from the fact that He uses it a lot on Goanet. Now it is God's turn to grant His faithful 6 year-old servant child his wish and a pat on the back. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Recent rejections for BOGUS reasons
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Two new showrooms/office spaces, double height (135 sq m each with bath) for lease in upscale Campal/Miramar beach area, Panaji, Goa. Contact: goaengineer...@aol.com Dear Herman, Frederick Noronha has claimed in the past that he is no longer the moderator of Goanet. It is hard for me and others to take him at his word. You obviously know the truth. His objectivity and ability to abide by the Goanet rules, even as an unmoderated contributor to Goanet have come under increasing suspicion, as far as several of us regular contributors to Goanet are concerned. I would therefore like to request you to take away his privileges as a moderator, and let him be a regular contributor like the rest of us, subject to moderation by the reasonably impartial and rule-abiding moderators Viviana and Bosco. Thanks in anticipation of your action. Best Regards, Santosh * No offense meant. But let the chips fall where they may. * On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 3:08 PM, Mario Goveiamgov...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Based on his recent emails on this subject demanding that he be entertained, and several rejections of my own posts for the same bogus cut and paste reason, I strongly suspect Fred is the culprit behind these rejections. The other moderators append their names when they reject posts. Besides, the discussion on cancer has not been publicly cancelled - so the demand to take it off Goanet is bogus. Cancel the thread after the typical warning period, or let the discussion continue. And, if Fred persists, he needs to be warned to cease and desist. We cannot have one moderator violating the published Rules of Goanet and making up his own.
Re: [Goanet] Cancer Decisions® - Simoncini's Bicar bonate Treatment For Cancer
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Two new showrooms/office spaces, double height (135 sq m each with bath) for lease in upscale Campal/Miramar beach area, Panaji, Goa. Contact: goaengineer...@aol.com Please do not trust such unproven quack treatments, just because someone offers his/her testimonial promoting it. Please read this important information for cancer patients on the Quackwatch website, which advises people to avoid dubious remedies such as Simoncini's Bicarbonate treatment for cancer. http://www.quackwatch.org/00AboutQuackwatch/altseek.html Cheers, Santosh --- On Sat, 9/5/09, Con Menezes cmene...@tpg.com.au wrote: Read about Dr. Simoncini's simple Cancer treatment and form your opinion. More hereunder. Con http://www.cancerdecisions.com/content/view/228/2/lang,english/
Re: [Goanet] When the Cure Is Worse Than the Disease by Bill Sardi
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Two new showrooms/office spaces, double height (135 sq m each with bath) for lease in upscale Campal/Miramar beach area, Panaji, Goa. Contact: goaengineer...@aol.com Please do not trust anything written at the following website and the author referred to below. This website is a political website which promotes quackery and anti-scientific nonsense, such as creationism. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sat, 9/5/09, Con Menezes cmene...@tpg.com.au wrote: When the Cure is worse than the Disease! Con http://www.lewrockwell.com/sardi/sardi90.html
Re: [Goanet] Cancer Decisions® - Simoncini's Bicar bonate Treatment For Cancer
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Two new showrooms/office spaces, double height (135 sq m each with bath) for lease in upscale Campal/Miramar beach area, Panaji, Goa. Contact: goaengineer...@aol.com Please do not trust the following unproven quack treatment and bogus information regarding cancer. Please read this important information for cancer patients on the Quackwatch website, which advises people to avoid dubious remedies such as Simoncini's Bicarbonate treatment for cancer, and irresponsible people who promote nonsense regarding cancer. http://www.quackwatch.org/00AboutQuackwatch/altseek.html Cheers, Santosh --- On Sun, 9/6/09, Ivo da C.Souza icso...@bsnl.in wrote: From: Con Menezes cmene...@tpg.com.au Read about Dr. Simoncini's simple Cancer treatment and form your opinion. More hereunder. Con http://www.cancerdecisions.com/content/view/228/2/lang,english/ ***I came to know about Dr.Tullio Simoncini's new treatment of cancer some time back. At the beginning of the 1900s, one person out of 100 died of cancer; today it is one out of three. We foresee that within a few years one out of two people will die of cancer. A mortality rate of 90 per cent, that is, 1.8 million deaths out of the 2 million cases recorded every year throughout the world, is observed for the majority of tumors of the digestive apparatus, those for example that are not subject to diagnostic ambiguities (such as esophagus, stomach, liver, and pancreas). The results for lung cancer are always similar, that is, the same 90 per cent death rate, and so on for all those cancers where mystification or data manipulation is not possible. Cancer is the most important problem in medicine, not only because of its size, but especially because of the long symptomatological line that comes with this disease, especially in its more advanced phases, and the state of extreme psychological suffering which both the patient and their relatives are victims of. It is no coincidence that the American president Richard Nixon in far-off 1971 proclaimed a real war against the disease of the century. Since then, this war has absorbed, worldwide, a quantity of economic, scientific and human resources which exceeds the limit of any imagination, but the results - it is useless to hide it - are a failure. Apart from the continuously renewed commitments, the repeated promises, and the supposedly miraculous most recent findings, there is very little that is concrete: the cause of cancer is and remains unknown. The problem is unsolved. Each year, millions of people are annihilated by this inexorable disease, as if they had been sucked into a spiral of death and pain which is almost always impossible to fight. Cancer is the enormous sword of Damocles, the terrible vindictive god of a surpassed social system, where defenseless citizens must passively accept a bankrupted management of their health, and are forced to delegate to undeserving others - the blind businessman at the vertex of the pyramid - the care of their disease. ***It is some type of alleviation. It is not total cure. Regards. Fr.Ivo
[Goanet] OFFTOPIC: How to spot a quack and a quacky website?
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Two new showrooms/office spaces, double height (135 sq m each with bath) for lease in upscale Campal/Miramar beach area, Panaji, Goa. Contact: goaengineer...@aol.com Goanet is being subjected to a lot of spam with quack products and dubious information regarding cancer and health lately. Here is a useful tool - The Quackometer - for Goanetters, to find out whether an author of a forwarded or copied and pasted article is a quack, and whether a forwarded link or website is a quacky website: http://www.quackometer.net/?page=quackometer Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Healthcare in America v/s Goa
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Two new showrooms/office spaces, double height (135 sq m each with bath) for lease in upscale Campal/Miramar beach area, Panaji, Goa. Contact: goaengineer...@aol.com Goans are quite smart. So please don't listen to anyone tell you that they cannot think on their feet. Please also don't let anybody deceive you with false information regarding public health. In line with the corrections that Bosco posted separately, the top 10 causes of death in India do not include cancer. The claim earlier that one in three deaths are due to cancer is bogus. Also irresponsible and false is the blanket claim that cancer is incurable. Here are the top 10 causes of death in India, all of which are curable and/or preventable: Ischemic heart disease - 15% of all deaths Lower respiratory infections - 11% of all deaths Cerebrovascular disease - 7% of all deaths Perinatal conditions - 7% of all deaths Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease - 5% of all deaths Diarrheal diseases - 4% of all deaths Tuberculosis - 4% of all deaths HIV/AIDS - 3% of all deaths Road traffic accidents - 2% of all deaths Self-inflicted injuries - 2% of all deaths The death rate from cancer is about 1.5% of all deaths. Apollo Cancer Institutes and other prominent cancer institutes have reported that with modern scientific medical treatment and latest technologies of early detection almost 70 - 80% of cancer patients can be cured. Cheers, Santosh --- On Tue, 9/8/09, Ivo da C.Souza icso...@bsnl.in wrote: Something you may not encounter in Goa. Thinking on your feet. Now you know why the cost of healthcare is so high.:=)) Regards, Gilbert ***Yes, Dr.Gilbert. It is a delicate issue that of health care. We in Goa are complaining that it is so costly to be in the hospital for a few days. Drugs are costly, physicians' fees are high. In fact, life is costly. It is costly to become sick. People are frightened by H1N1 Flu (Swine Flu). They are also afraid to be diagnosed of cancer and of other incurable diseases. You should invent some drugs for these diseases... Sodium bicarbonate may not help much, but can palliate, as chicken soup can be adjunct therapy for viral fever (which drugs cannot cure). Hoping for better solutions. Regards. Fr.Ivo
[Goanet] Test of the credibility of the talk at Goa Science Centre
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Two new showrooms/office spaces, double height (135 sq m each with bath) for lease in upscale Campal/Miramar beach area, Panaji, Goa. Contact: goaengineer...@aol.com It is disappointing that the Goa Science Centre is allowing unscientific nonsense to be promoted on its premises without a serious scientific rebuttal. I applied the Quackometer search test to the speaker named in the following post. Here are the results: http://www.quackometer.net/?suspectquack=R.+P.+Bhide He received a quack canard score of 8. The full quote is: QUOTE This name appears on web sites with serious amounts Quackery! Possible Quackery pages found: ayurvedaonline : Messages : 15941-15970 of 15999 ... April 2009) Superaspects Of Ayurvedeeya Rasashastra Vaidya R.P.Bhide Rasamruta ... We need recipes herbal medicines that she can use for the treatment, ...http://health.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/ayurvedao (7 Canards ) full analysis... ayurvedaonline : Messages : 15928-15957 of 15957 ... of household remedies, allopathy, homeopathy, ayurveda, etc. but of no ... April 2009) Superaspects Of Ayurvedeeya Rasashastra Vaidya R.P.Bhide Rasamruta ...http://health.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/ayurvedao (8 Canards ) full analysis... e-journal Articles Pharmacovigilance for Ayurvedic Drugs Scope, Limitations and Method of Implementation ... Vaidya R.P.Bhide. Rasamruta 2009, 1:4 (28 April 2009) Amazing Reactions ...http://www.rasayu.com/e-journal/Articles.html (10 Canards ) full analysis... UNQUOTE Cheers, Santosh --- On Tue, 9/8/09, SHRIKANT BARVE shri8...@yahoo.com wrote: Viadya Chudamani Raghuvir (Pramod) Pandurang Bhide was working as Govt. Medical officer in the year 1976 to 2004 at Ratnagiri, Maharastra. After completing his B.Sc (Biology and Chemistry) (Bombay University) in 1967 he Joined Astang Ayurved Mahavidyalay. His Thesis for M.S.A.M. (Doctorate equivalent degree) at Ayurved Vidyapith, Jamnagar was “Malla Bhasma Vidyaniyam” based on Rasashastra. Vaidya Bhide has given relief to over 300 AID’s patient and successfully handled many other cases which were considered not curable by Modern Science. We have arranged interactive session of Vaidya R. P. Bhide “SUPER ASPECT OF AYURVEDEEY RAS-SHASTRA” on Sunday September 20 2009 10.00 to 12.00 at Goa Science Centre, Miramar. This session is ‘Free of Cost’ only for Doctors. Interested Doctors may contact Shrikant Barve Convener at shri8...@gmail.com A special session for public on Ayurved by Vaidya Bhide will be held at Goa Science Centre, Miramar on Sunday 20th, 2009. Shrikant Vinayak Barve Convener: We Love Ayurved 9403175973
Re: [Goanet] Interactive session of Vaidya R. P. Bhide “SUPER ASPECT OF AYURVEDEEY RAS-SHASTRA” on Sun day September 20 2009 10.00 to 12.00 at Goa Science Centre , Miramar. This session is ‘Free of C
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Two new showrooms/office spaces, double height (135 sq m each with bath) for lease in upscale Campal/Miramar beach area, Panaji, Goa. Contact: goaengineer...@aol.com --- On Tue, 9/8/09, SHRIKANT BARVE shri8...@yahoo.com wrote: Vaidya Bhide has given relief to over 300 AID’s patient and successfully handled many other cases which were considered not curable by Modern Science. This is crazy nonsense. Please beware of quacks who make such incredible claims. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Cancer Decisions - Simoncini's Bicarbonate Treatment For Cancer
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Two new showrooms/office spaces, double height (135 sq m each with bath) for lease in upscale Campal/Miramar beach area, Panaji, Goa. Contact: goaengineer...@aol.com Eddie Verdes wrote: I am not saying Cancer cant be cured.. surely the Americans may have a cure...but for the poor in Goa it is like we say..Mollbak dolle pautat, punn hat pavona...our eyes can reach the sky...but the hands cant! I am a Goan. I completed by early medical education in Goa. I am in constant touch with cancer specialists in Goa. I am saying that all common cancers can be cured in Goa through early detection and proper treatment by a highly competent oncologist. The medicines and procedures that are available in the developed world are also available in Goa. If anecdotes is all you care about then I can tell you that my own grandmother was cured from breast cancer in the early 1970s in Goa and in the Tata Memorial Cancer Centre in Mumbai. She lived much beyond the life expectancy of a normal Indian woman without recurrence of her cancer. --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Ivo da C.Souza icso...@bsnl.in wrote: One of my students died of cancer within less than one month after surgery, chemotherapy and radiation, after he was declared as cured by Tata Memorial Hospital. This is a fairy tale unworthy of even a cheap Bollywood movie. No scientifically trained physician gives such a declaration, and claims that a patient died of cancer without knowing the details of the case and the exact cause of death, which can only be definitively determined by a pathological autopsy. Common sense tells us that a patient who survived cancer can die of other causes, such as a heart attack. ***Actually, I am trying to help them for palliation with my medical knowledge and training. Cancer can only be competently diagnosed and treated today in India by an expert surgical or medical oncologist who has done the following: 1. Completed a five and a half year degree course in modern medicine in a recognized medical college, including a rotating internship of one year. 2. Obtained a modern medical degree and a licence to practice modern scientific medicine. 3. Completed a recognized residency in a medical or surgical specialty. 3. Obtained a postgraduate degree in that specialty. 4. Specialized in cancer surgery or medical oncology through further residency or fellowship training. 5. Maintained an active practice of oncology. 6. Kept up with the latest advances in cancer diagnosis and treatment through medical journals, continuing medical education and refresher courses. Please do not entrust your life in the hands of a person who does not have the above qualifications and training. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Ayurveda.Gaining favour in the West.
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Two new showrooms/office spaces, double height (135 sq m each with bath) for lease in upscale Campal/Miramar beach area, Panaji, Goa. Contact: goaengineer...@aol.com Please do not trust the website given in the post appended below. It is a website that promotes dubious information regarding public health. It received a quackery canard score of 8. Please see: http://www.quackometer.net/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mercola.com Please also note in the link below that the U.S. government regulatory agency has taken action on the bogus claims made on that website: http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/mercola.html Cheers, Santosh --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Con Menezes cmene...@tpg.com.au wrote: Ayurveda..gaining favour in the West. Comprehensive evidence here. Con http://mercola.fileburst.com/PDF/Ayurveda-The-Wisdom-of-Life.pdf
Re: [Goanet] Open Challenge to Dr Santosh Helekar....
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Two new showrooms/office spaces, double height (135 sq m each with bath) for lease in upscale Campal/Miramar beach area, Panaji, Goa. Contact: goaengineer...@aol.com --- On Thu, 9/10/09, SHRIKANT BARVE shri8...@yahoo.com wrote: Its a Gentleman's Challenge. Prove Vaidya Bhide as quack. I have stated my opinion that people who make deceptive claims like the following are quacks, and I have asked people not to trust them. Vaidya Bhide has given relief to over 300 AID's patient and successfully handled many other cases which were considered not curable by Modern Science. I have not stated that Bhide made the above claim himself. I don't know if claims to have given relief to AIDS patients and successfully handled cases not curable by modern medicine. But if you can provide me with a copy of his speech, his thesis or any of his writings, containing claims of miraculous cures, I can tell you if he is a quack or not, and why. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Climate scientists confused by the climate
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Two new showrooms/office spaces, double height (135 sq m each with bath) for lease in upscale Campal/Miramar beach area, Panaji, Goa. Contact: goaengineer...@aol.com --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Ivo da C.Souza icso...@bsnl.in wrote: What happens in metereology is also happening in medical world: Physicians and surgeons are being confused by cancer epidemiology and Swine Flu (H1N1). This is a false claim. No physician who is an expert in the concerned area is confused about cancer epidemiology and swine flu. They know exactly what the global statistical data on different cancers are, and what causes swine flu, and how to detect it. The swine flu vaccines are already being made. The confusion only stems from ignorance and scientific illiteracy. As far as global climate change is concerned, here is the evidence as provided by NASA: http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/ Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Quacks... and quackery!
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Two new showrooms/office spaces, double height (135 sq m each with bath) for lease in upscale Campal/Miramar beach area, Panaji, Goa. Contact: goaengineer...@aol.com --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Frederick Noronha f...@goa-india.org wrote: Even quacks, it would seem, are in distinguished company! FN This is silly. Perhaps, Noronha does not know that the founders of Scientology, Naturopathy and Homeopathy are still regarded as quacks, because none of what they claimed has been substantiated by scientific evidence. Their bogus teachings are respected only by a small cult of believers in each case. Science has relegated them to the dustbin of history. Even the nonsense that the genuine scientist Linus Pauling claimed in his later life has never been able distinguish itself from quackery. Cheers, Santosh Notable historical persons accused of quackery * Thomas Allinson (1858–1918), founder of naturopathy. His views often brought him into conflict with the Royal College of Physicians of Edinburgh and the General Medical Council, particularly his opposition to doctors' frequent use of toxic drugs, his opposition to vaccination and his self promotion in the press.[20] His views and publication of them led to him being labeled a quack and being struck off by the General Medical Council for infamous conduct in a professional respect.[21][22] * Samuel Hahnemann (1755–1843), founder of homeopathy. Hahnemann believed that all diseases were caused by miasms, which he defined as irregularities in the patient's vital force.[23] He also said that illnesses could be treated by substances that in a healthy person produced similar symptoms to the illness, in extremely low concentrations, with the therapeutic effect increasing with dilution and repeated shaking.[24][25][26] * L. Ron Hubbard (1911–1986) was the founder of the Church of Scientology. He was an American science fiction writer, former United States Navy officer, and creator of Dianetics.[27][28][29]
Re: [Goanet] Cancer debate - Closing the Thread
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Two new showrooms/office spaces, double height (135 sq m each with bath) for lease in upscale Campal/Miramar beach area, Panaji, Goa. Contact: goaengineer...@aol.com It is good that an experienced cancer surgeon such as Anil Desai, who has practiced in Goa and the United Kingdom, weighed in in this discussion, even though his rebuttal might have been a little too harsh. Since Viviana has allowed us a closing statement, let me close by making the following observations. It is wrong and irresponsible to make a categorical blanket claim that cancer is incurable in any part of the world, including Goa, as was done in this forum. As I have said before, cancer can be detected at an early stage in Goa, and in many cases, cured, if treated with modern scientific medicine. Also, there are several cancers, listed earlier, that can be cured even in the advanced stages. The fact that a significant percentage of cancer patients are permanently cured of their cancer today is inferred from what are known as long-term survival curves, of the type that cancer epidemiologist Hermann Brenner and his coworkers have published. From the scientific standpoint, a complete cure is deemed to have occurred if a cancer patient has: a) Survived after treatment without cancer recurrence for a period that exceeds the plateau phase (the point at which the falling survival curve becomes parallel to the x axis) of his/her cancer’s survival curve, and b) Has achieved a normal life free of cancer, wherein the probabilities of dying from it, as well as of attaining the average life expectancy, are the same as that of any normal person who has never had cancer. Indeed, the latest study to which I referred in one of my recent posts calculates the exact cure rates for several of the most common cancers, from their long-term survival curves. Therefore, if you consider yourself to be a rational human being, you need to take these unequivocal scientific facts seriously, and reject all your pre-conceived fact-free notions about cancer, and the silly selective personal anecdotes that were peddled in this forum. They are worthless from the rational perspective. You have to also shun all quack treatments and untested homeopathic or other alternative remedies. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Quacks... and quackery!
--- On Sat, 9/12/09, Isabel Joanes isaj...@rediffmail.com wrote: 1. Who won the annual Goenchem Prize advertised below, for 2009? The Goenchem Prize has not been awarded for 2009. 2. Can we have the list of award-winners 2003-2008? There are only two award winners so far: Roland Martins for 2003 Yagneshwar Nigalye for 2005 There is no requirement that it should be awarded every year. 3. If not, is this Prize then, items 2. and 12. below? Please explain what you mean. 4. Where is the money? The money was donated by individual donors. 5. Why was the 2009 Goenchem Prize not awarded on 09.09.09? Please explain what you mean. Cheers, Santosh
[Goanet] Question to Francis
Dear Francis Rodrigues of the Daily Grook fame, Do you know Isabel Joanes, the author of the post below? I found out that she is using your IP address in Canada, even though she has a Rediffmail.com email ID. Please see your and her IP headers below with the exact match of your originating IP addresses. QUOTE Message-ID: 20090912223948.31464.qm...@f6mail-144-154.rediffmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 To: goa...@goanet.org Received: from unknown 67.204.10.93 by rediffmail.com via HTTP; 12 Sep 2009 22:39:48 - From: Isabel Joanes isaj...@rediffmail.com UNQUOTE QUOTE Message-ID: blu128-w58de353bb1443c8801cb4c4...@phx.gbl X-Originating-IP: [67.204.10.93] From: Francis Rodrigues fcarodrig...@hotmail.com UNQUOTE Cheers, Santosh --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Isabel Joanes isaj...@rediffmail.com wrote: Re. The Anti-Quackery campaign: 1. Who won the annual Goenchem Prize advertised below, for 2009? 2. Can we have the list of award-winners 2003-2008? 3. If not, is this Prize then, items 2. and 12. below? 4. Where is the money? 5. Why was the 2009 Goenchem Prize not awarded on 09.09.09? ...
Re: [Goanet] Did Charles Darwin mislead us?
Sandeep, Thanks. What a perfect example of a fusion between abysmal ignorance and morbid dishonesty! You bet I will write a rejoinder. Do you know anything about the author Bernard Simoes? I hope he is not even remotely connected with the education of Goan children. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Sandeep Heble sandeephe...@gmail.com wrote: From: Sandeep Heble sandeephe...@gmail.com Subject: [Goanet] Did Charles Darwin mislead us? To: goa...@goanet.org Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 12:49 AM Hi Santosh, The Article at the link below appears in Today’s Edition of Herald in the Mirror section. http://tinyurl.com/npzrus Charles Darwin’s theory of Evolution is called a Scientific hoax and blamed for Racism, mass murders, wars and what not. It needs a serious rebuttal. Could you post a rejoinder to that? Thanks and Regards Sandeep
Re: [Goanet] Question to Francis
Not only did she refer to Frederick Noronha as Rico, but she insinuated that Noronha has been badmouthing Jose Colaco to her behind his back. Please see the following link and quote: http://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg33082.html I guess Rico's been right about you all along! Waylusha So the ball is in Noronha's court. As an administrator of Goanet he cannot escape his responsibility to answer Jose's question directly. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sun, 9/13/09, J. Colaco jc cola...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Mr Frederick Noronha While Francis is at it . Would you please advise IF you know Waylusha I can confirm that 1: You are one of the GoaNet moderators who approved his/her/his-her message on GoaNet 2: He/She has referred to you as Rico. Grateful jc
Re: [Goanet] Climate scientists confused by the climate
Mario, Here are my responses to what you have written, and how Mojib Latif has completely refuted you in his own words: --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Mario Goveia mgov...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Quote: The current warming trend is of particular significance because most of it is very likely human-induced and proceeding at a rate that is unprecedented in the past 1,300 years.1 Unquote. Most of it is very likely? What are the economic implications of the political demands that we turn only the western economies on their head because of something that its strongest proponents say only that most of it is very likely? The field of Economics is orders of magnitude more speculative and uncertain than any branch of science. Scientists do not speak with an air of certainty. Only politicians and ideologues do. Proceeding at a rate that is unprecedented? This seems false based on actual surface temperatures published by the same source: http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/ False. The graphs only go back to 1880. The quote says unprecedented in the past 1,300 years Here is the correct graph, which goes back to 200 A.D.: http://tinyurl.com/FactsRefutingMario This shows that global warming seems to have taken a hiatus since 1998, not proceeding at a rate that is unprecedented. False. The global temperature in 2005 was the highest ever. In 2007 it was the second highest ever, as high as 1998 when it was anomalously high because of El Nino. It was this contradiction that Mojib Latif, a top climate modeller and an author for the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change according to the report I posted, was referring to when he was warning the world's top climate scientists gathering in Geneva at the UN's World Climate Conference. Nonsense. Latif has been completely misrepresented by the Newscientist journalist and the global warming deniers. He was merely talking about a hypothetical scenario, and the difficulty of explaining to scientifically illiterate lay journalists that global warming is not a simplistic monotonically increasing linear process. In doing so he was explaining the importance of decadal predictions. Here is the audio of his entire talk at the conference he attended, along with some other talks by eminent climate scientists: http://tinyurl.com/LatifRefutingMario1 Here are his PowerPoint slides: http://tinyurl.com/LatifRefutingMario2 Here is the relevant quote from his talk: QUOTE It may well happen that you enter a decade, or maybe even two, you know...when the temperature cools...alright?...relative to the present level. Alright? And then, you know...I know what’s going to happen, you know? I will get, you know...millions of phone calls...you know: “Eh, what’s going on? So, is global warming disappearing?”...You know? “Have you lied on us?” So, you know, and therefore this is the reason why we need to address this decadal prediction issue. UNQUOTE Mojib Latif refuting Mario Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Boy Wonder Surgeon !
Please be skeptical of most of this material. The boy is certainly a prodigy as far as reading and learning ability is concerned. But the rest of the material is highly suspect. Prodigies with high IQs do not have instinctive knowledge of medicine and of cures for diseases. Scientific research, especially empirical medical research, requires decades of painstaking and laborious experimental research. Mere intelligence is not enough. In fact, too much intelligence can get in the way, because you can get bored easily with the constant failures and disappointments. What he is saying in the video about gene therapy, DNA and cancer cures is childish, quite appropriate for his age. BTW, I heard that he got a B.Sc. in Botany. I don't know what he is doing now. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sat, 9/19/09, Silvan M. D'Sa silsof...@gmail.com wrote: A 13-year old boy, Akrit Jaswal from Punjab, India, is making waves in the medical world with a singular objective of finding a cure for cancer. He has an unbelievable IQ of 146. When he was 7 years old, he performed a delicate surgery on an eight-year old girl to separate the fingers on her hand which had become fused. This feat catapulted him into the limelight. Watch the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQif24jIGWY
Re: [Goanet] Boy Wonder Surgeon !
--- On Sun, 9/20/09, Frederick [FN] Noronha * फ्रेडरिक न fredericknoro...@gmail.com wrote: PS: If this does good to the collective billion-strong Indian ego, can't we simply opt to believe in it (for convenience sake), and term it as something of a mass placebo effect? This statement nicely illustrates the type of superficial journalism that has become an impediment to the promotion of a proper understanding of science and medicine today. This type of journalism does not care about facts and reality. All it cares about is allegiance to some preconceived ideology such as nationalism and cultural chauvinism. Rather than boosting our ego as Indians, experience has shown that it has never failed to embarrass us. The public deserves at least a bare minimum amount of incredulity towards nonsense, and respect for truth, from a person whose profession it is to inform them about the day to day concerns that affect their lives. When a 12 year-old boy claims that he has found new cures for cancer and AIDS, a professional journalist has the responsibility to ask real medical scientists whether there is anything to those claims. And when these scientists state as they do in the quotes below from the Imperial College and Sunday Times articles, he needs to take them and their facts seriously. From the rhetorical questions and statements of Noronha it appears that this is unfortunately not the case with him. The staged surgery and the naive claims of cures by a boy appear to be uncritically accepted as the truth, and important caveats quoted below are ignored. QUOTE Dr David Feldman of Tufts University, Massachusetts stresses, films about prodigies often reflect myths and fantasies rather than reality. UNQUOTE QUOTE Akrit was tested on his visit to England, and whilst his scores placed him well above average for general knowledge, he was below average in his interpretive thinking. UNQUOTE QUOTE Feldman proposes that children are able to compete at adult levels in highly structured fields such as music. Open-ended areas such as scientific research are more difficult as they require experience and abstract thinking. Akrit designed numerous molecular structures for his cancer cure but he lacked the interpretive thinking to make them testable. UNQUOTE QUOTE Patel describes how these children are diluted by the age factor as they grow uponce the novelty factor disappears ideas need to stand up on their own. UNQUOTE QUOTE Professor Mustafa Djamgoz, who spent a number of weeks with the boy, told me: There's no doubt he is a brilliant boy. He really knows his stuff and has put his heart, soul and mind into finding a cure for cancer. But his solution is not that novel. In theory it could work, but it would be premature to say he has found a cure. UNQUOTE QUOTE Although there's no doubting he is a very gifted boy, such children do not usually go on to do great things when they grow up. Linda Silverman, of the Gifted Development Centre in America, who examined Akrit when he was eight, makes the point that most gifted people do not seek or achieve fame. UNQUOTE I hope better sense prevails in such matters. Cheers, Santosh From: Frederick [FN] Noronha * फ्रेडरिक न fredericknoro...@gmail.com Would Akrit Jaswal fit into the definitions of quackwatch.com (doing surgery at the age of seven, et al)? Or would he fall into the category of a Louis Pasteur (incidentally, also termed a quack at one stage)? Oprah, definitely not the last word on issues of medical proprietary though she influences millions, didn't seem to be skeptical enough: http://www.oprah.com/dated/oprahshow/oprahshow_20070212 What about that font of imperial sciences, the Imperial College itself: http://www.union.ic.ac.uk/media/iscience/article_template_typ.php?articleid=125 The Sunday Times, of course, can be dismissed as being just journalistic: http://www.teamfocus.co.uk/cgi-bin/articlefull.pl?id=17 FN PS: If this does good to the collective billion-strong Indian ego, can't we simply opt to believe in it (for convenience sake), and term it as something of a mass placebo effect? -- FN +91-9822122436 P +91-832-2409490 Updated: http://goabooks.wordpress.com
Re: [Goanet] Boy Wonder Surgeon !
--- On Mon, 9/21/09, Frederick [FN] Noronha * फ्रेडरिक न fredericknoro...@gmail.com wrote: How about accepting a mild, non-malicious flame-bait when it comes your way? FN Flame baits are a violation of Goanet rules. PS: A line or two on what went wrong in the Louis Pasteur case (and quackery) would be fine too :-) I know of no evidence that Pasteur was dismissed, in general, as a quack by his scientific peers. But if someone did make such a claim on occasion, it was most likely because medicine was still very primitive in the 19th century. It was hard to tell the difference between genuine scientific medicine and quackery in those times. That is not the case today. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] DNA: India: Cow urine soft drink all set to hit
INTERACTIVE DISCUSSION: Alternative Publishing - Is it viable to traditional publishing? WHERE: Art Lounge - Sunaparanta, Near Lar de Estudantes, Altinho, Panaji WHEN: September 30, 2009 - 5:30pm http://www.facebook.com/n/?event.phpeid=146588805806mid=12a68daG1df3c3d3G2ac936fG7 --- On Wed, 9/30/09, Ivo da C.Souza icso...@bsnl.in wrote: ***Cow urine medicine would not have by itself anything to do with Religion. I know Catholics and Hindus who take their own urine satisfactorily (urine therapy) as well as Catholics who are being treated by Hindu ayurvedic physicians with drug prepared from cow urine for pemphigus vulgaris (successfully, not just by anecdotal evidence, as the amelioration of symptoms is giving them scientific evidence). It is true that gullible folk of all religious and non-religious persuasions side with the Hindu extremists, as far as the New Age quackery-based and anti-scientific mindset is concerned. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Is Obama a nightmare for India?
--- On Wed, 9/30/09, MD mmdme...@gmail.com wrote: As India can never become a superpower in its real sense, Obama may have realised India’s potential in limited spheres!! Even now it relies on foreign powers including Israel for its defence equipment procurement. Given the current ‘All Indians born in India are Hindus’ type of thinking, naturally Obama being the President of the only world superpower, may have realised emergence of a Hindu Hardliner India, may try to misuse its nuclear arsenal. This is as contrived and bizarre an argument about the current U.S. policy towards India as the previous one in this thread, which it is addressing. Any objective person would note that India is a stable secular democratic republic headed by a centrist Government comprising the Indian National Congress party. This is in contrast to China, which is a communist autocracy and Pakistan, which is a failed unstable Islamic republic. The Hindu hardliners were roundly and soundly defeated in the last two national elections, and the majority of the voting population has never subscribed to their theocratic nationalism. The president of the U.S. is elected to defend the interests of his own country. He has no obligation to promote the interests of any other country. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Why blame Charles Darwin?
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Planning to get married in Goa? www.weddingsetcgoa.com Making your 'dream wedding' possible --- On Sun, 10/4/09, floriano floriano.l...@gmail.com quoted Patrick Ferdinand as follows: With or without it, you have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things, but for good people to do evil things, it takes religion. Actually, the above quote is lifted from the Nobel laureate physicist Steven Weinberg. Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. The above quote is lifted from the prodigious scholar Blaise Pascal. Cheers, Santosh
[Goanet] Correcting the Lies about Darwin and Evolution
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Planning to get married in Goa? www.weddingsetcgoa.com Making your 'dream wedding' possible Last month, the Herald Mirror published an article entitled “Did Charles Darwin Mislead Us?”, written by a man named Bernard Simoes. This article is the ugliest piece of writing I have read in a long time. As I have said elsewhere, it is a perfect example of a fusion between abysmal ignorance and appalling dishonesty. The article, from start to finish, peddles horrible lies about one of the most successful and significant of scientific theories in existence, propounded by one of the greatest of scientists the world has ever seen. In a particularly morbid and mendacious assault on our sanity, it claims that Darwin’s theory of evolution by natural selection was responsible for racism, Nazism, Fascism, Communism and the genocides committed by all the dictators and mass murderers of the 20th century, as well as for the lack of progress in science. To those who might be wondering why any sober-minded and educated individual would attack a well-established scientific theory today, the reason is two-fold, disregarding the trivial but real possibility of a lapse of sobriety and/or sanity: 1) an unshakable belief in an ultra-conservative political movement driven by religious cults and fanatical sects of mainstream religions, and 2) the failure of basic high school education to impart a proper understanding of science. The extremist religious movements are opposed to evolution because they feel that it threatens their sacred faith in the literal truth of the scriptures, i.e. in a young earth that is only a few thousand years old and in the creation of humans and other living organisms by a divine creator. There are many versions of this ideology being propagated by preachers and publicists of all persuasions through sermons, lectures, books and websites. An article written by Patrick Ferdinand in the last issue of Herald Mirror has already exposed the misguided nature of this religious ideology. So I will not address it here any further. Instead, I will try to explode the lies that were smudged on these pages by Bernard Simoes as they pertained to the proper scientific understanding of Darwinian evolution. The scientific theory of evolution by natural selection was proposed by Darwin in 1859 on the basis of an enormous body of objective evidence collected by him and others over several decades. It stated that all living organisms on earth have descended from a common ancestor. Those who have inherited physical variations that are better adapted to a changing environment, have survived longer and have been able to bear more offspring, who in turn have been better equipped for survival – a process which Darwin termed as natural selection. The confluence of variation, heritability and selection has produced the entire diversity and complexity of life that we see around us. There are many popular misconceptions regarding evolution, bred by scientific illiteracy, in general, or by ignorance of this subject, in particular, of which the following three are the most common. The first is that monkeys became humans over time. This is no truer than the statement that your great grandfather became you. What the theory of evolution actually says is that monkeys and humans had common ancestors. Chimpanzees, bonobos and humans had one common ancestor who lived about 7 million years ago. In fact, humans had a common ancestor with every other living organism farther back in the history of life on earth. The second misconception is that humans are more evolved than other organisms. But the truth is that in the context of evolution, all organisms that thrive on earth today, which includes bacteria, cockroaches, monkeys and humans, are equally evolved because they have all been very successful at surviving in the present environment. Evolution does not proceed as a linear, progressive and directional process. It branches out as a tree, generating diversity and complexity in an aimless and undirected manner. The third, and by far the worst misconception is that evolution is only a theory that has never been proven. This myth has been propagated far and wide using a variety of deceptive means by various forms of religious indoctrination. However, scientific discoveries of the last century and the first decade of the present century, enabled by technological advances, have amassed formidable evidence that life has indeed evolved exactly as originally predicted by Darwin in 1859. Darwin’s theory of evolution by natural selection is a scientific theory because it is falsifiable – a condition
Re: [Goanet] Ayurveda is not a miracle, it’s a sc ience, says Vaidya Bhide
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Planning to get married in Goa? www.weddingsetcgoa.com Making your 'dream wedding' possible --- On Fri, 10/9/09, SHRIKANT BARVE shri8...@yahoo.com wrote: Ayurveda is not a miracle, it’s a science, says Vaidya Bhide, and it doesn’t have the drawbacks of Allopathy (where almost all medicines today are inorganic in nature because they’re synthesised and can, therefore, do more damage than good). He quipped, “We’re all organic, Mother Earth is organic…but even our diets are not organic anymore!” This is funny. In addition to not having a clue as to what is meant by science, this vaidya does not seem to know the difference between organic and inorganic. Is water organic or inorganic according to him? Can a person who does not understand elementary chemistry, let alone the biochemistry of the human body, be allowed to prepare and dispense his own chemicals? Don't his promoters and audience at the Goa Science Center remember anything from their high school chemistry classes? This is why we need journalists who are scientifically literate. Otherwise, we will continue to have the general public being fooled by such nonsense. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Recent books from Goa... worth recommending
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Planning to get married in Goa? www.weddingsetcgoa.com Making your 'dream wedding' possible --- On Fri, 10/9/09, Gilbert Lawrence gilbert2...@yahoo.com wrote: I thought Santosh was going to post ections from Priolkar's book for review and discussion. I have not seen any. But may be I missed them. I had said I would write my own review of the book, which I will when I have some free time to do justice to it. I have already commented on Buchanan's mild account, reproduced in its entirety by Priolkar. Buchanan was another man Frederick had tried to smear and misrepresent in this forum, along with Priolkar. Some defend using Dellon's account (which I have not read) as being a victim's account. This has minor validity. This is like trying to know about cholera by reading the account of a patient. Strange logic! How about a rape victim's account of a rape committed against her? Would that be of minor validity, as well? I thought a good physician learned a lot about a disease from a patient's description of his/her own symptoms. I am sorry about a well known Christian research scholar too has endorsed this. This shows that scholars can make basic mistakes in judgment. Nothing new!!! I am glad M. D'mello and and FN are bold and have stood up. Incredible! Please note the emphasis on the religion of this research scholar and the posture of D'Mello and Noronha. This statement should tell us everything we need to know what this is all about. I had provided the endorsements of not one, but two eminent scholars, Gerald Moser and Charles Boxer. I do not know what religion they belonged to. The scholarly journals did not mention it because it should be of no consequence, if one is solely interested in the dispassionate, unvarnished, unwhitewashed truth. But any objective person would like to know what contributions to historical scholarship on the inquisition have Maurice D'Mello, Frederick Noronha and Gilbert Lawrence made for which they are standing up on Goanet, and opposing real historians. What profound independent insights have they achieved which lead them to believe that genuine historians and scholars have made basic mistakes? M. D'Mello wrote: Is this a revised addition? If not, more and more will deem that this is the truth about inquisition in Goa as this book heavily relies on Dellon's biased account in the first place. The above tells me that D'Mello has not read Priolkar's book. The book relies on the works of 50 named scholars and one anonymous work. Regarding Dellon and Buchanan, Priolkar simply reprints their accounts in Part II of his book. Unless some one brings out the truth, I am sorry to say, this will be the impression of the Inquisition. How does this man decide what the truth is? Noronha wrote: AK Priolkar's The Goa Inquisition (new edition). A book that has shaped the understanding of the Goa Inquisition, specially within South Asia, though I do not agree with its portrayal. Why does Noronha not agree with Priolkar's portrayal based on the works of 50 historians and scholars? What does he know that nobody else does? Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Is Jawaharlal Nehru responsible for India's communal tensions?
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Planning to get married in Goa? www.weddingsetcgoa.com Making your 'dream wedding' possible --- On Sat, 10/10/09, Sandeep Heble sandeephe...@gmail.com wrote: I always thought that Frederick was a rationalist but I found his logic on that day peculiar and highly absurd to say the least. Sandeep, You were naive to believe that Noronha was a rationalist. He has always been the exact opposite. Frederick Noronha has never cared for rationalism or secularism. He is a classic knee-jerk anti-establishment cultural relativist who does not know the difference between sense and nonsense, reason and superstition, justice and prejudice, tolerance and intolerance, parochial and universal, harmful and useful, and good and bad. He also makes arbitrary exceptions to his relativist mindset when it is convenient for him to do so. For example, he fancies himself as an eastern chauvinist who believes secularism, rationalism and science are western inventions, and therefore, need to be opposed with greater vehemence than is reserved for Hindu extremism, to which he paradoxically grants an arbitrary exemption from his eastern chauvinism, when it serves his agenda. Here are quotes from his latest response in this thread, which substantiate what I am saying here: My view is that the irreligious (if not anti-religious) attitudes of some early politicians (Nehru, for instance) could well have pushed religion to the defensive, and only given a fillip after some time to the more intolerant, chauvinist and extremist faces of religion we see resurgent for the past decade and more. .Frederick Noronha Please note the twisted logic here. He blames non-religious people for the criminal behavior of religious extremists. He has no problem about taking temporary leave from his relativistic position and his senses to indulge in this flight of fancy. At one level, calling the Bhakra project as temples of modern India reflects the genuflection of a Nehru towards that god called Science and Technology, and looking down on things traditional. .Frederick Noronha Please note the absurd intolerance here towards Science and Technology, and once again, the insinuation from the context that India's problems, including religious extemism are a consequence to Nehru's affinity towards something which all rational people believe is the single most important cause of human progress. Maybe a Gandhi was more apt in understanding the role of religion in a hyper-religious space like South Asia. Such an attitude, which seeming obscurantist at first, might have been more sustainable. Frederick Noronha Please note that he conveniently forgets the historical facts that Gandhi was killed by a Hindu extremist because of his political views and actions, and that violent communalism emerged contemporaneously with Gandhi's non-violent struggle for freedom, the largest Hindu-Muslim riots having taken place during the partition, for which Gandhi was in part responsible. The traditions which Sandeep mentions about secularism come largely if not entirely from the Western world, and have little to do with the Indian reality. Here, secularism was born less out of a revolt against the Religious Orders and more out of the need for a multi-religious, multi-ethnic, multi-caste nation state to co-exist amidst all its diversity. .Frederick Noronha Please note here that he is utterly oblivious or ignorant of the history of secular thought and practice in India since at least the 5th century B.C. - the fact that the Indian tradition comprised of atheistic religions, atheistic and agnostic schools of thought, secular pluralistic religions such as those of Kabir and Akbar, and that religious minorities from other parts of the world, such as Parsees and Jews came to India to escape religious persecution, and have since lived in peaceful co-existence and harmony. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Indian ancestry revealed in massive study
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Planning to get married in Goa? www.weddingsetcgoa.com Making your 'dream wedding' possible --- On Sun, 10/11/09, Dr. U. G. Barad dr.udayba...@gmail.com wrote: I do not think that the article can be read to substantiate the Aryan Invasion Theory. This is not true. The Nature article does support the view that Indo-Europeans invaded and settled in India as the Ancient North Indians. The lay news story in Times of India, on the other hand, is misleading and confusing. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sun, 10/11/09, Dr. U. G. Barad dr.udayba...@gmail.com wrote: But around the same time, there was an article in The Times of India with the title Aryan-Dravidian divide a myth: Study. It is available at: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/india/Aryan-Dravidian-divide-a-myth- Study/articleshow/5053274.cms
Re: [Goanet] Chronic Renal Failure (CRF) at Canacona.
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Planning to get married in Goa? www.weddingsetcgoa.com Making your 'dream wedding' possible --- On Sun, 10/11/09, SHRIKANT BARVE shri8...@yahoo.com wrote: Ayurved can regenerate tissue functioning due to organic(Sanskrut word SENDRIYA) view towards medicine. It appears that the approach here is to fool the public by using politically appealing words such as organic, with misunderstood and mis-applied New Age connotations. It is much easier than doing the honest hard work of actually gathering objective scientific evidence for their incredible claims. I have already pointed out that this vaidya does not know the scientific meanings of the words organic and inorganic. Cheers, Santosh
