RE: [hlds_linux] another crasher
clapsEric/claps Jeremy Brooking : If the fact that mygot are doing a better job of beta testing than VALVe and their beta program, doesnt speak volumes about the current situation Hmm have you ever considered why myg0t are able to find so many exploits ? Think about it. To enable them to spot so many niggly exploits that usually take a while to surface, they either have an anal guy who loves debugging looking though decompiled code or they are using the leaked source to spot potential vulnerabilities. Just let myg0t find the problems and valve fix them when they surface. It is almost white-box testing for valves code by myg0t(albiet an older cut of the source) which in the long run (if valve keep patching) can only work out good for the users as the software will only be improved. Eventually myg0t and the other plebs that are 'discovering' the bugs will run out of bugs to use and the playing field will level out. Chris *** This e-mail and its attachments are confidential and are intended for the above named recipient only. If this has come to you in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this e-mail from your system. You must take no action based on this, nor must you copy or disclose it or any part of its contents to any person or organisation. Statements and opinions contained in this email may not necessarily represent those of Littlewoods. Please note that e-mail communications may be monitored. The registered office of Littlewoods Limited and its subsidiaries is 100 Old Hall Street, Liverpool, L70 1AB. Registered number of Littlewoods Limited is 262152. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 13:07:07 +1000, Bruce Bahamut Andrews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You've really got to wonder how difficult it is for them to stop people putting an OpenGL32.dll file in their hl.exe directory. I mean, it can't be that difficult, and it'd stop half the hacks that are out... :/ How would that prevent them from putting it somewhere else in their %PATH%, before system32? (I've not tried if this actually works, but I would think it does.) Maarten -- A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
everything I've read about it says to put it in the same directory as hl.exe - I'm not up to speed with the way OpenGL32.dll works exactly, is Half-Life designed to look everywhere for an opengl32.dll? o.O - Bruce Bahamut Andrews Maarten van der Zwaart wrote: On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 13:07:07 +1000, Bruce Bahamut Andrews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You've really got to wonder how difficult it is for them to stop people putting an OpenGL32.dll file in their hl.exe directory. I mean, it can't be that difficult, and it'd stop half the hacks that are out... :/ How would that prevent them from putting it somewhere else in their %PATH%, before system32? (I've not tried if this actually works, but I would think it does.) Maarten -- A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 21:29:11 +1000, Bruce Bahamut Andrews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: everything I've read about it says to put it in the same directory as hl.exe - I'm not up to speed with the way OpenGL32.dll works exactly, is Half-Life designed to look everywhere for an opengl32.dll? o.O I've not tested how HL loads opengl, but if it uses the normal windows functions it will first check the same directory as hl.exe and then all the directories in the %PATH%. Maarten -- A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
That's prtty stupid. Though I'm sure they could get VAC to check all those directories too :D - Bruce Bahamut Andrews Maarten van der Zwaart wrote: On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 21:29:11 +1000, Bruce Bahamut Andrews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: everything I've read about it says to put it in the same directory as hl.exe - I'm not up to speed with the way OpenGL32.dll works exactly, is Half-Life designed to look everywhere for an opengl32.dll? o.O I've not tested how HL loads opengl, but if it uses the normal windows functions it will first check the same directory as hl.exe and then all the directories in the %PATH%. Maarten -- A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 00:09:52 +1000, Bruce Bahamut Andrews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's prtty stupid. Though I'm sure they could get VAC to check all those directories too :D Including system32 in your windows directory? It is in the %PATH% and contains a opengl32.dll. You need an opengl32.dll in your PATH to play in opengl mode. Maarten -- A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
Eric, Please read my mail and the mail I was making a reply to before quoting me in your mails and making your assumptions based on an edited reply to my original mail. Someone said valve need personal time and this was their reason for valve not releasing a patch for the server, the down the beach comment could have been at home with wife down the pub or watching footy does it matter they are all things you would do in personal time at the end of the day I and many others can't do any of them at present because we have to spend most nights and weekends restarting servers that are taken down because of very simple bugs that could have been picked up in a real beta test or could be fixed very quickly yet still seems to take valve 3 working days to fix. You then go on to make further quotes from the reply of witch I was not the author, perhaps you should move to a threaded mail client so you can actually work out who said what and who replied to what before you have to post using profanity to get your point across. Mark -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric (Deacon) Sent: 23 October 2004 16:03 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :( Where the hell do y'all get shit like Valve are down at the beach? Have you seen them there yourself? Do you have a report of it? Is it just random projections of your own frustrations and ignorant view of Corporate America being hurled at Valve like a monkey hurling its poo? -- Eric (the Deacon remix) In a bold display of creativity, Mihai Badila wrote: On Fri, Oct 22, 2004 at 09:14:50PM +0100 or thereabouts, Mark Ellis wrote: Well we all need personal time but while Valve are down the beach I and many others are sitting here putting servers back up as fast as they are taken down because the smart guys at mygot release this info end of the week knowing that there will be 3-4 days before valve even start to look at a fix. We had a beta test and what a joke that was one map slow updates you could hardly call it a beta more just a hardware test. Agreed. Like many others I think valve is too slow at releasing these fixes, we all moved over to steam so they could send out lots of small fixes fast but from what I can see steam is just a way of them collecting more data on users than rolling out fixes. Steam is primary a money making machine. Its purpose is also delivering patches, content etc. but think.. Steam does a hell of a job for Valve and a really poor job for the little guy [valve steam product user]. And yes INDEPENDENCE from Vivendi [forgot about that one]. I'm not against Steam but no other company has ever used such a method of control for the money. This list is about 80% filled with frustration when you read the mails. Kinda makes you think cs, dod and others were doing fine back in the days when they were free. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.779 / Virus Database: 526 - Release Date: 19/10/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.779 / Virus Database: 526 - Release Date: 19/10/2004 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
Micheal Patterson wrote: snip I for one, would love to have some of the functions of amx or adminmod native to the srcds code but to implement them would probably be a nightmare within the core components. snip If a company builds anything these days that isn't modular enough to do that, it shouldn't be on the forefront of gaming as it's not up to the play enough to be able to battle things like these easily. Learn the mistake Microsoft took with the current windows kernel, they can't patch things fast enough because it's speghetti and noodles. - Drew ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
In a bold display of creativity, Mark Ellis wrote: Eric, Please read my mail and the mail I was making a reply to before quoting me in your mails and making your assumptions based on an edited reply to my original mail. Wow, that made no sense at all. I clicked reply and top-posted. That's pretty simple stuff. The only assumption I made was that you were more intelligent than you clearly are. For this, I apologize. Someone said valve need personal time and this was their reason for valve not releasing a patch for the server, the down the beach comment could have been at home with wife down the pub or watching footy Right, so, did you completely and utterly miss the point of my questioning that implication that Valve employees are just lazy, corporate pigs who don't give two shits about you, much less their product? Why would you bother to expound something that needs no clarification whatsoever, even a little bit? because of very simple bugs that could have been picked up in a real beta test or could be fixed very quickly yet still seems to take valve 3 working days to fix. I know, right? I mean, I for one am shocked and disappointed that Valve didn't release a completely perfect complex software product right out the door. That it could take 3 working days to fix is utterly abhorrent. In reality, of course, you're the kind of trollish tool that software companies, businessmen, and intelligent people in general hate. As I work for a prominent software company, I'm pretty much right there in the bullseye on these kinds of things. If you've actually had experience with such things, you'd understand why 3 working days to fix a bug that automatically rolls out to the entire install base is pretty damn impressive. You then go on to make further quotes from the reply of witch I was not the author, perhaps you should move to a threaded mail client so you can actually work out who said what and who replied to what before you have to post using profanity to get your point across. Holy fuck. I'm trying to figure out whether you, someone who uses X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353, are pulling my leg or whether you're trolling out of sheer ignorance. I'm not sure either is forgivable. I use Thunderbird, and I have all hlds_linux emails dropped into a specific subfolder underneath my Inbox, and the emails are listed in threaded view. What's *spectacularly* awesome is that it has no bearing whatsofuckingever on this inane, irrelevant, phantom problem you have invented. Strictly because I'm hoping against hope that your arrogance stems from ignorance rather than from concentrated asshattery, I will remind you that I simply replied to an email and top-posted, eliminating ANY concern about chopped up edits. Here, because I'm such a nice guy, I'm including the entire block of quoted text from MY email so you can get the gist of it this time around. Once you get it, ponder how it makes no fucking difference either way. If you still have problems understanding, don't bother to request further clarification. Instead, end yourself. In a bold display of creativity, Mihai Badila wrote: On Fri, Oct 22, 2004 at 09:14:50PM +0100 or thereabouts, Mark Ellis wrote: Well we all need personal time but while Valve are down the beach I and many others are sitting here putting servers back up as fast as they are taken down because the smart guys at mygot release this info end of the week knowing that there will be 3-4 days before valve even start to look at a fix. We had a beta test and what a joke that was one map slow updates you could hardly call it a beta more just a hardware test. Agreed. Like many others I think valve is too slow at releasing these fixes, we all moved over to steam so they could send out lots of small fixes fast but from what I can see steam is just a way of them collecting more data on users than rolling out fixes. Steam is primary a money making machine. Its purpose is also delivering patches, content etc. but think.. Steam does a hell of a job for Valve and a really poor job for the little guy [valve steam product user]. And yes INDEPENDENCE from Vivendi [forgot about that one]. I'm not against Steam but no other company has ever used such a method of control for the money. This list is about 80% filled with frustration when you read the mails. Kinda makes you think cs, dod and others were doing fine back in the days when they were free. -- Eric (the Deacon remix) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
Eric (Deacon) wrote: I know, right? I mean, I for one am shocked and disappointed that Valve didn't release a completely perfect complex software product right out the door. That it could take 3 working days to fix is utterly abhorrent. In reality, of course, you're the kind of trollish tool that software companies, businessmen, and intelligent people in general hate. As I work for a prominent software company, I'm pretty much right there in the bullseye on these kinds of things. If you've actually had experience with such things, you'd understand why 3 working days to fix a bug that automatically rolls out to the entire install base is pretty damn impressive. Bugs from 1.5 where reintroduced in source, and no one, no beta testers nor valve picked it up. When it was picked up, it took 3 days to patch a bug, that they had already learnt how to fix before. Is that acceptable? Fuck no. The ONLY reason it is becoming more and more acceptable is because of the attitudes of buttmonkeys and brown nosers of people like yourself. I work for a prominent software... blah blah blah, we've heard that line 1000 times. But its not like youre the only one. And simply because you work for a software developer, doesnt mean you have a fucken clue, which its apparent, due to a number of your comments, percieved clue actual clue. As software becomes more and more complex, it is bound to have more and more bugs I hear you say? Well exploy more staff, take longer looks at your code, spend more time debugging, whatever it takes, but no end user should have to pay for a companies lack of developement time. If you dont like it, dont buy it You think I would have knowing its more buggy than Animal Planet? If the fact that mygot are doing a better job of beta testing than VALVe and their beta program, doesnt speak volumes about the current situation, then you are not the 'intelligent' man your claim yourself to be. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
Hrm. I guess there must be some way to detect it. The opengl32.dll in my system32 directory is 670KB, whereas the Orion hack is only 60.7KB. :/ - Bruce Bahamut Andrews Maarten van der Zwaart wrote: On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 00:09:52 +1000, Bruce Bahamut Andrews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's prtty stupid. Though I'm sure they could get VAC to check all those directories too :D Including system32 in your windows directory? It is in the %PATH% and contains a opengl32.dll. You need an opengl32.dll in your PATH to play in opengl mode. Maarten -- A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
Just a few quick reply cause I really dont want to get in to a flame war with a moron like you Eric I have watched your posts over the years and you just are not worth the effort. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric (Deacon) Sent: 26 October 2004 00:44 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :( In a bold display of creativity, Mark Ellis wrote: Eric, Please read my mail and the mail I was making a reply to before quoting me in your mails and making your assumptions based on an edited reply to my original mail. Wow, that made no sense at all. I clicked reply and top-posted. That's pretty simple stuff. The only assumption I made was that you were more intelligent than you clearly are. For this, I apologize. About as much sense as your first post. cross quoting etc. Someone said valve need personal time and this was their reason for valve not releasing a patch for the server, the down the beach comment could have been at home with wife down the pub or watching footy Right, so, did you completely and utterly miss the point of my questioning that implication that Valve employees are just lazy, corporate pigs who don't give two shits about you, much less their product? Why would you bother to expound something that needs no clarification whatsoever, even a little bit? NO I DID NOT but I guess you did mine as and the explanation did not seem to clear things up for you so I will try to make it simple for you... I was trying to point out that if Valve are allowed personal time why should others have to sit in all weekend fixing servers because of a bug in their product that could be fixed, released and installed in hours using this wonderful Steam system they gave us. It was not some attack on corporate america If that is still over your head I will get my 2yo nephew to explain it you in word you may understand. because of very simple bugs that could have been picked up in a real beta test or could be fixed very quickly yet still seems to take valve 3 working days to fix. I know, right? I mean, I for one am shocked and disappointed that Valve didn't release a completely perfect complex software product right out the door. That it could take 3 working days to fix is utterly abhorrent. I guess you are not one of us that have to sit here all weekend restarting servers because no one put flood protection in or mygot found another bug on a Friday afternoon and told the world about it. In reality, of course, you're the kind of trollish tool that software companies, businessmen, and intelligent people in general hate. As I work for a prominent software company, I'm pretty much right there in the bullseye on these kinds of things. If you've actually had experience with such things, you'd understand why 3 working days to fix a bug that automatically rolls out to the entire install base is pretty damn impressive. I hope you are not including yourself in those listed above and are the people you are talking about called... humm let me think CUSTOMERS ! You then go on to make further quotes from the reply of witch I was not the author, perhaps you should move to a threaded mail client so you can actually work out who said what and who replied to what before you have to post using profanity to get your point across. Holy fuck. I'm trying to figure out whether you, someone who uses X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353, are pulling my leg or whether you're trolling out of sheer ignorance. I'm not sure either is forgivable. I use Thunderbird, and I have all hlds_linux emails dropped into a specific subfolder underneath my Inbox, and the emails are listed in threaded view. What's *spectacularly* awesome is that it has no bearing whatsofuckingever on this inane, irrelevant, phantom problem you have invented. Strictly because I'm hoping against hope that your arrogance stems from ignorance rather than from concentrated asshattery, I will remind you that I simply replied to an email and top-posted, eliminating ANY concern about chopped up edits. OH NO I USE OUTLOOK shot me... Do us all a favor use your super intelligence and hit the unsubscribe button, then go and play on a freeway. Here, because I'm such a nice guy, I'm including the entire block of quoted text from MY email so you can get the gist of it this time around. Once you get it, ponder how it makes no fucking difference either way. If you still have problems understanding, don't bother to request further clarification. Instead, end yourself. In a bold display of creativity, Mihai Badila wrote: On Fri, Oct 22, 2004 at 09:14:50PM +0100 or thereabouts, Mark Ellis wrote: Well we all need personal time but while Valve are down the beach I and many others are sitting here putting servers back up as fast as they are taken down because the smart guys at mygot release this info end of the week knowing that there will be 3-4
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
On Fri, Oct 22, 2004 at 09:14:50PM +0100 or thereabouts, Mark Ellis wrote: Well we all need personal time but while Valve are down the beach I and many others are sitting here putting servers back up as fast as they are taken down because the smart guys at mygot release this info end of the week knowing that there will be 3-4 days before valve even start to look at a fix. We had a beta test and what a joke that was one map slow updates you could hardly call it a beta more just a hardware test. Agreed. Like many others I think valve is too slow at releasing these fixes, we all moved over to steam so they could send out lots of small fixes fast but from what I can see steam is just a way of them collecting more data on users than rolling out fixes. Steam is primary a money making machine. Its purpose is also delivering patches, content etc. but think.. Steam does a hell of a job for Valve and a really poor job for the little guy [valve steam product user]. And yes INDEPENDENCE from Vivendi [forgot about that one]. I'm not against Steam but no other company has ever used such a method of control for the money. This list is about 80% filled with frustration when you read the mails. Kinda makes you think cs, dod and others were doing fine back in the days when they were free. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
...CS and DoD were never free, you always required Half-Life or one of it's dirivatives to play. They had a private beta test, and a public one. (Almost) everyone knows that the private beta testers get the billion patches that radically change, whereas the open beta testers get the other lot, the ones that have been already tested to a certain extent. The idea of providing only one map was to filter out the bugs without people being more interested in checking the map out - as well as showing off the Source engine to whoever was interested (or not interested) in Half-Life 2. What isn't based on money? Name one company that did something knowing that they would not gain a profit from it or would not benefit in any way? STEAM allows automatic updates - those CS:Source bugs, we would've sat in IRC chatrooms for hours explaining to people which patch to install in which order if it wasn't automatic (done that enough for NS, pain in the butt). STEAM does -heaps- for the little guy, it's caused VALVe a lot of problems too, not that they're openly admitting the issues. Organisation of the game, guarunteed no Your cd key is in use, ability to play anywhere with a net connection, a friends list (they'll eventually fix it I suppose, pretty dodge currently), you can buy a game -direct from the developers without paying the middle-men-. Yeah, there's a lot of frustration, but what most people fail to realise is that for every patch they put out, they have to have it work for each and every different version of the game flawlessly in private testing before releasing it, and that's not always the easiest thing to test. We'll leave VAC out of this, it's a miracle it lasted this long, practically every other game out relies on third party cheat protection (which is damn pathetic). Though one thing I would like to see, if no VAC updates, is the ability to create your own anti-cheat modules and have clients download them. Like UT2004 and it's mutators, whenever you connect to a server you download the relevant files that you don't have (anti-cheat, etc) which are third party and they install themselves and run. Currently VALVe games only support downloading third party files, not modules, which is a smart thing to do in one regard, but it'd still be nice to be able to create a VAC replacement (which only requires servers to update, then the clients automatically get it from the server). - Bruce Bahamut Andrews Mihai Badila wrote: On Fri, Oct 22, 2004 at 09:14:50PM +0100 or thereabouts, Mark Ellis wrote: Well we all need personal time but while Valve are down the beach I and many others are sitting here putting servers back up as fast as they are taken down because the smart guys at mygot release this info end of the week knowing that there will be 3-4 days before valve even start to look at a fix. We had a beta test and what a joke that was one map slow updates you could hardly call it a beta more just a hardware test. Agreed. Like many others I think valve is too slow at releasing these fixes, we all moved over to steam so they could send out lots of small fixes fast but from what I can see steam is just a way of them collecting more data on users than rolling out fixes. Steam is primary a money making machine. Its purpose is also delivering patches, content etc. but think.. Steam does a hell of a job for Valve and a really poor job for the little guy [valve steam product user]. And yes INDEPENDENCE from Vivendi [forgot about that one]. I'm not against Steam but no other company has ever used such a method of control for the money. This list is about 80% filled with frustration when you read the mails. Kinda makes you think cs, dod and others were doing fine back in the days when they were free. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
Bruce, I'd suggest patenting that idea. Or at least asking valve for royalties if they use it. A anti-cheat that allowed third party plugin modules that automatically downloaded. Quite litterally a brilliant idea. Daniel On Sat, 23 Oct 2004, Bruce Bahamut Andrews wrote: ...CS and DoD were never free, you always required Half-Life or one of it's dirivatives to play. They had a private beta test, and a public one. (Almost) everyone knows that the private beta testers get the billion patches that radically change, whereas the open beta testers get the other lot, the ones that have been already tested to a certain extent. The idea of providing only one map was to filter out the bugs without people being more interested in checking the map out - as well as showing off the Source engine to whoever was interested (or not interested) in Half-Life 2. What isn't based on money? Name one company that did something knowing that they would not gain a profit from it or would not benefit in any way? STEAM allows automatic updates - those CS:Source bugs, we would've sat in IRC chatrooms for hours explaining to people which patch to install in which order if it wasn't automatic (done that enough for NS, pain in the butt). STEAM does -heaps- for the little guy, it's caused VALVe a lot of problems too, not that they're openly admitting the issues. Organisation of the game, guarunteed no Your cd key is in use, ability to play anywhere with a net connection, a friends list (they'll eventually fix it I suppose, pretty dodge currently), you can buy a game -direct from the developers without paying the middle-men-. Yeah, there's a lot of frustration, but what most people fail to realise is that for every patch they put out, they have to have it work for each and every different version of the game flawlessly in private testing before releasing it, and that's not always the easiest thing to test. We'll leave VAC out of this, it's a miracle it lasted this long, practically every other game out relies on third party cheat protection (which is damn pathetic). Though one thing I would like to see, if no VAC updates, is the ability to create your own anti-cheat modules and have clients download them. Like UT2004 and it's mutators, whenever you connect to a server you download the relevant files that you don't have (anti-cheat, etc) which are third party and they install themselves and run. Currently VALVe games only support downloading third party files, not modules, which is a smart thing to do in one regard, but it'd still be nice to be able to create a VAC replacement (which only requires servers to update, then the clients automatically get it from the server). - Bruce Bahamut Andrews Mihai Badila wrote: On Fri, Oct 22, 2004 at 09:14:50PM +0100 or thereabouts, Mark Ellis wrote: Well we all need personal time but while Valve are down the beach I and many others are sitting here putting servers back up as fast as they are taken down because the smart guys at mygot release this info end of the week knowing that there will be 3-4 days before valve even start to look at a fix. We had a beta test and what a joke that was one map slow updates you could hardly call it a beta more just a hardware test. Agreed. Like many others I think valve is too slow at releasing these fixes, we all moved over to steam so they could send out lots of small fixes fast but from what I can see steam is just a way of them collecting more data on users than rolling out fixes. Steam is primary a money making machine. Its purpose is also delivering patches, content etc. but think.. Steam does a hell of a job for Valve and a really poor job for the little guy [valve steam product user]. And yes INDEPENDENCE from Vivendi [forgot about that one]. I'm not against Steam but no other company has ever used such a method of control for the money. This list is about 80% filled with frustration when you read the mails. Kinda makes you think cs, dod and others were doing fine back in the days when they were free. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
The problem with that is that you're allowing a server op to run any code he wants on a players computer. I certainly wouldn't be happy about that, it could be a trojan or something else as nasty. The only way I could see this working would be to allow the use of a 3rd party data file with lists of things to check for in memory and let VAC do the checking. Pete. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Daniel Sent: 23 October 2004 12:05 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :( Bruce, I'd suggest patenting that idea. Or at least asking valve for royalties if they use it. A anti-cheat that allowed third party plugin modules that automatically downloaded. Quite litterally a brilliant idea. Daniel On Sat, 23 Oct 2004, Bruce Bahamut Andrews wrote: ...CS and DoD were never free, you always required Half-Life or one of it's dirivatives to play. They had a private beta test, and a public one. (Almost) everyone knows that the private beta testers get the billion patches that radically change, whereas the open beta testers get the other lot, the ones that have been already tested to a certain extent. The idea of providing only one map was to filter out the bugs without people being more interested in checking the map out - as well as showing off the Source engine to whoever was interested (or not interested) in Half-Life 2. What isn't based on money? Name one company that did something knowing that they would not gain a profit from it or would not benefit in any way? STEAM allows automatic updates - those CS:Source bugs, we would've sat in IRC chatrooms for hours explaining to people which patch to install in which order if it wasn't automatic (done that enough for NS, pain in the butt). STEAM does -heaps- for the little guy, it's caused VALVe a lot of problems too, not that they're openly admitting the issues. Organisation of the game, guarunteed no Your cd key is in use, ability to play anywhere with a net connection, a friends list (they'll eventually fix it I suppose, pretty dodge currently), you can buy a game -direct from the developers without paying the middle-men-. Yeah, there's a lot of frustration, but what most people fail to realise is that for every patch they put out, they have to have it work for each and every different version of the game flawlessly in private testing before releasing it, and that's not always the easiest thing to test. We'll leave VAC out of this, it's a miracle it lasted this long, practically every other game out relies on third party cheat protection (which is damn pathetic). Though one thing I would like to see, if no VAC updates, is the ability to create your own anti-cheat modules and have clients download them. Like UT2004 and it's mutators, whenever you connect to a server you download the relevant files that you don't have (anti-cheat, etc) which are third party and they install themselves and run. Currently VALVe games only support downloading third party files, not modules, which is a smart thing to do in one regard, but it'd still be nice to be able to create a VAC replacement (which only requires servers to update, then the clients automatically get it from the server). - Bruce Bahamut Andrews Mihai Badila wrote: On Fri, Oct 22, 2004 at 09:14:50PM +0100 or thereabouts, Mark Ellis wrote: Well we all need personal time but while Valve are down the beach I and many others are sitting here putting servers back up as fast as they are taken down because the smart guys at mygot release this info end of the week knowing that there will be 3-4 days before valve even start to look at a fix. We had a beta test and what a joke that was one map slow updates you could hardly call it a beta more just a hardware test. Agreed. Like many others I think valve is too slow at releasing these fixes, we all moved over to steam so they could send out lots of small fixes fast but from what I can see steam is just a way of them collecting more data on users than rolling out fixes. Steam is primary a money making machine. Its purpose is also delivering patches, content etc. but think.. Steam does a hell of a job for Valve and a really poor job for the little guy [valve steam product user]. And yes INDEPENDENCE from Vivendi [forgot about that one]. I'm not against Steam but no other company has ever used such a method of control for the money. This list is about 80% filled with frustration when you read the mails. Kinda makes you think cs, dod and others were doing fine back in the days when they were free. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
You'd have to have limitations on what could be done obviously, it's only anti-cheat software, not a complete mod. Though, if that were implemented it'd have to be somewhere in the server's info, so people knew what they were stepping into before connecting :p - Bruce Bahamut Andrews Peter Holcroft wrote: The problem with that is that you're allowing a server op to run any code he wants on a players computer. I certainly wouldn't be happy about that, it could be a trojan or something else as nasty. The only way I could see this working would be to allow the use of a 3rd party data file with lists of things to check for in memory and let VAC do the checking. Pete. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Daniel Sent: 23 October 2004 12:05 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :( Bruce, I'd suggest patenting that idea. Or at least asking valve for royalties if they use it. A anti-cheat that allowed third party plugin modules that automatically downloaded. Quite litterally a brilliant idea. Daniel On Sat, 23 Oct 2004, Bruce Bahamut Andrews wrote: ...CS and DoD were never free, you always required Half-Life or one of it's dirivatives to play. They had a private beta test, and a public one. (Almost) everyone knows that the private beta testers get the billion patches that radically change, whereas the open beta testers get the other lot, the ones that have been already tested to a certain extent. The idea of providing only one map was to filter out the bugs without people being more interested in checking the map out - as well as showing off the Source engine to whoever was interested (or not interested) in Half-Life 2. What isn't based on money? Name one company that did something knowing that they would not gain a profit from it or would not benefit in any way? STEAM allows automatic updates - those CS:Source bugs, we would've sat in IRC chatrooms for hours explaining to people which patch to install in which order if it wasn't automatic (done that enough for NS, pain in the butt). STEAM does -heaps- for the little guy, it's caused VALVe a lot of problems too, not that they're openly admitting the issues. Organisation of the game, guarunteed no Your cd key is in use, ability to play anywhere with a net connection, a friends list (they'll eventually fix it I suppose, pretty dodge currently), you can buy a game -direct from the developers without paying the middle-men-. Yeah, there's a lot of frustration, but what most people fail to realise is that for every patch they put out, they have to have it work for each and every different version of the game flawlessly in private testing before releasing it, and that's not always the easiest thing to test. We'll leave VAC out of this, it's a miracle it lasted this long, practically every other game out relies on third party cheat protection (which is damn pathetic). Though one thing I would like to see, if no VAC updates, is the ability to create your own anti-cheat modules and have clients download them. Like UT2004 and it's mutators, whenever you connect to a server you download the relevant files that you don't have (anti-cheat, etc) which are third party and they install themselves and run. Currently VALVe games only support downloading third party files, not modules, which is a smart thing to do in one regard, but it'd still be nice to be able to create a VAC replacement (which only requires servers to update, then the clients automatically get it from the server). - Bruce Bahamut Andrews Mihai Badila wrote: On Fri, Oct 22, 2004 at 09:14:50PM +0100 or thereabouts, Mark Ellis wrote: Well we all need personal time but while Valve are down the beach I and many others are sitting here putting servers back up as fast as they are taken down because the smart guys at mygot release this info end of the week knowing that there will be 3-4 days before valve even start to look at a fix. We had a beta test and what a joke that was one map slow updates you could hardly call it a beta more just a hardware test. Agreed. Like many others I think valve is too slow at releasing these fixes, we all moved over to steam so they could send out lots of small fixes fast but from what I can see steam is just a way of them collecting more data on users than rolling out fixes. Steam is primary a money making machine. Its purpose is also delivering patches, content etc. but think.. Steam does a hell of a job for Valve and a really poor job for the little guy [valve steam product user]. And yes INDEPENDENCE from Vivendi [forgot about that one]. I'm not against Steam but no other company has ever used such a method of control for the money. This list is about 80% filled with frustration when you read the mails. Kinda makes you think cs, dod and others were doing fine back in the days when they were free. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
Nooo, bad idea, then they wouldn't implement it! Not that they will anyway, :/ - Bruce Bahamut Andrews Daniel wrote: Bruce, I'd suggest patenting that idea. Or at least asking valve for royalties if they use it. A anti-cheat that allowed third party plugin modules that automatically downloaded. Quite litterally a brilliant idea. Daniel On Sat, 23 Oct 2004, Bruce Bahamut Andrews wrote: ...CS and DoD were never free, you always required Half-Life or one of it's dirivatives to play. They had a private beta test, and a public one. (Almost) everyone knows that the private beta testers get the billion patches that radically change, whereas the open beta testers get the other lot, the ones that have been already tested to a certain extent. The idea of providing only one map was to filter out the bugs without people being more interested in checking the map out - as well as showing off the Source engine to whoever was interested (or not interested) in Half-Life 2. What isn't based on money? Name one company that did something knowing that they would not gain a profit from it or would not benefit in any way? STEAM allows automatic updates - those CS:Source bugs, we would've sat in IRC chatrooms for hours explaining to people which patch to install in which order if it wasn't automatic (done that enough for NS, pain in the butt). STEAM does -heaps- for the little guy, it's caused VALVe a lot of problems too, not that they're openly admitting the issues. Organisation of the game, guarunteed no Your cd key is in use, ability to play anywhere with a net connection, a friends list (they'll eventually fix it I suppose, pretty dodge currently), you can buy a game -direct from the developers without paying the middle-men-. Yeah, there's a lot of frustration, but what most people fail to realise is that for every patch they put out, they have to have it work for each and every different version of the game flawlessly in private testing before releasing it, and that's not always the easiest thing to test. We'll leave VAC out of this, it's a miracle it lasted this long, practically every other game out relies on third party cheat protection (which is damn pathetic). Though one thing I would like to see, if no VAC updates, is the ability to create your own anti-cheat modules and have clients download them. Like UT2004 and it's mutators, whenever you connect to a server you download the relevant files that you don't have (anti-cheat, etc) which are third party and they install themselves and run. Currently VALVe games only support downloading third party files, not modules, which is a smart thing to do in one regard, but it'd still be nice to be able to create a VAC replacement (which only requires servers to update, then the clients automatically get it from the server). - Bruce Bahamut Andrews Mihai Badila wrote: On Fri, Oct 22, 2004 at 09:14:50PM +0100 or thereabouts, Mark Ellis wrote: Well we all need personal time but while Valve are down the beach I and many others are sitting here putting servers back up as fast as they are taken down because the smart guys at mygot release this info end of the week knowing that there will be 3-4 days before valve even start to look at a fix. We had a beta test and what a joke that was one map slow updates you could hardly call it a beta more just a hardware test. Agreed. Like many others I think valve is too slow at releasing these fixes, we all moved over to steam so they could send out lots of small fixes fast but from what I can see steam is just a way of them collecting more data on users than rolling out fixes. Steam is primary a money making machine. Its purpose is also delivering patches, content etc. but think.. Steam does a hell of a job for Valve and a really poor job for the little guy [valve steam product user]. And yes INDEPENDENCE from Vivendi [forgot about that one]. I'm not against Steam but no other company has ever used such a method of control for the money. This list is about 80% filled with frustration when you read the mails. Kinda makes you think cs, dod and others were doing fine back in the days when they were free. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
Have y'all considered stepping out of your sandbox into the real world? Christ, how old are these people? They sound like a bunch of fucking middle schoolers whining about how their daddy didn't buy them the new Boy Band CD, except that they're equally full of shit as to the reasons why. Where the hell do y'all get shit like Valve are down at the beach? Have you seen them there yourself? Do you have a report of it? Is it just random projections of your own frustrations and ignorant view of Corporate America being hurled at Valve like a monkey hurling its poo? Steam does a hell of a job for Valve and a really poor job for the little guy. What the hell are you talking about? Explain, please. Because for the life of me I can't see how the little guy is getting screwed, while the big guy (Valve, I assume from your previous implications of lazy corporate pigs?) is getting a manicure and a blowjob from the quiet asian girl in the back. Steam has created significant headaches and operational costs for Valve. Hopefully the Friends list will start working for real soon, and hopefully when everything settles down we'll start seeing more smaller patches more often. But don't bash it just because you're an idiot. This list is about 80% filled with frustration when you read the mails. This list is about 80% filled with ignorant bullshit and pathetic whining when you read the mails. I wonder if the Win32 HLDS list is this bad, or if people like you are just another one of those shitstains on Tux that you have to put up if you want to run Linux. -- Eric (the Deacon remix) In a bold display of creativity, Mihai Badila wrote: On Fri, Oct 22, 2004 at 09:14:50PM +0100 or thereabouts, Mark Ellis wrote: Well we all need personal time but while Valve are down the beach I and many others are sitting here putting servers back up as fast as they are taken down because the smart guys at mygot release this info end of the week knowing that there will be 3-4 days before valve even start to look at a fix. We had a beta test and what a joke that was one map slow updates you could hardly call it a beta more just a hardware test. Agreed. Like many others I think valve is too slow at releasing these fixes, we all moved over to steam so they could send out lots of small fixes fast but from what I can see steam is just a way of them collecting more data on users than rolling out fixes. Steam is primary a money making machine. Its purpose is also delivering patches, content etc. but think.. Steam does a hell of a job for Valve and a really poor job for the little guy [valve steam product user]. And yes INDEPENDENCE from Vivendi [forgot about that one]. I'm not against Steam but no other company has ever used such a method of control for the money. This list is about 80% filled with frustration when you read the mails. Kinda makes you think cs, dod and others were doing fine back in the days when they were free. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
That's a rather...harsh way to put it, even if it does get the point across for you, I really don't believe profanity is needed in civilised conversation. There's so many more descriptive words out there you could choose to use, try them. http://www.thesaurus.com is your friend. (I think I spelt that right o.O) - Bruce Bahamut Andrews Eric (Deacon) wrote: Have y'all considered stepping out of your sandbox into the real world? Christ, how old are these people? They sound like a bunch of fucking middle schoolers whining about how their daddy didn't buy them the new Boy Band CD, except that they're equally full of shit as to the reasons why. Where the hell do y'all get shit like Valve are down at the beach? Have you seen them there yourself? Do you have a report of it? Is it just random projections of your own frustrations and ignorant view of Corporate America being hurled at Valve like a monkey hurling its poo? Steam does a hell of a job for Valve and a really poor job for the little guy. What the hell are you talking about? Explain, please. Because for the life of me I can't see how the little guy is getting screwed, while the big guy (Valve, I assume from your previous implications of lazy corporate pigs?) is getting a manicure and a blowjob from the quiet asian girl in the back. Steam has created significant headaches and operational costs for Valve. Hopefully the Friends list will start working for real soon, and hopefully when everything settles down we'll start seeing more smaller patches more often. But don't bash it just because you're an idiot. This list is about 80% filled with frustration when you read the mails. This list is about 80% filled with ignorant bullshit and pathetic whining when you read the mails. I wonder if the Win32 HLDS list is this bad, or if people like you are just another one of those shitstains on Tux that you have to put up if you want to run Linux. -- Eric (the Deacon remix) In a bold display of creativity, Mihai Badila wrote: On Fri, Oct 22, 2004 at 09:14:50PM +0100 or thereabouts, Mark Ellis wrote: Well we all need personal time but while Valve are down the beach I and many others are sitting here putting servers back up as fast as they are taken down because the smart guys at mygot release this info end of the week knowing that there will be 3-4 days before valve even start to look at a fix. We had a beta test and what a joke that was one map slow updates you could hardly call it a beta more just a hardware test. Agreed. Like many others I think valve is too slow at releasing these fixes, we all moved over to steam so they could send out lots of small fixes fast but from what I can see steam is just a way of them collecting more data on users than rolling out fixes. Steam is primary a money making machine. Its purpose is also delivering patches, content etc. but think.. Steam does a hell of a job for Valve and a really poor job for the little guy [valve steam product user]. And yes INDEPENDENCE from Vivendi [forgot about that one]. I'm not against Steam but no other company has ever used such a method of control for the money. This list is about 80% filled with frustration when you read the mails. Kinda makes you think cs, dod and others were doing fine back in the days when they were free. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
In a bold display of creativity, Bruce Bahamut Andrews wrote: That's a rather...harsh way to put it, even if it does get the point across for you It does. :) I really don't believe profanity is needed in civilised conversation. There's so many more descriptive words out there you could choose to use, try them. http://www.thesaurus.com is your friend. The size of my vocabulary is not really in question, here, I don't think. The word choice may be, however, and for that I apologize to any who might have been offended. It wasn't *that* bad, but I had bottled up some of our choicest rage while listening to these little pudwhacks over the course of a long while, and I went ahead and uncorked a tiny portion of it. -- Eric (the Deacon remix) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
Since the latest steam update that has fixed the name-change exploit crashing, I am actually quite pleased with how the server runs now. Before everyone gasps in shock and horror about what I have just stated, remember that Valve ARE actually working behind the scenes to fix these problems that even I as a server operator for a GISP can appreciate. It's getting there people, just have some patience. I paid just as much as the rest of you who have bought the HL2 Silver package, so please try not to fill up these message boards with rants about how nothing is being fixed or a lack of any updates, because this is not the case. Regards, Matt Town Eric (Deacon) wrote: Have y'all considered stepping out of your sandbox into the real world? Christ, how old are these people? They sound like a bunch of fucking middle schoolers whining about how their daddy didn't buy them the new Boy Band CD, except that they're equally full of shit as to the reasons why. Where the hell do y'all get shit like Valve are down at the beach? Have you seen them there yourself? Do you have a report of it? Is it just random projections of your own frustrations and ignorant view of Corporate America being hurled at Valve like a monkey hurling its poo? Steam does a hell of a job for Valve and a really poor job for the little guy. What the hell are you talking about? Explain, please. Because for the life of me I can't see how the little guy is getting screwed, while the big guy (Valve, I assume from your previous implications of lazy corporate pigs?) is getting a manicure and a blowjob from the quiet asian girl in the back. Steam has created significant headaches and operational costs for Valve. Hopefully the Friends list will start working for real soon, and hopefully when everything settles down we'll start seeing more smaller patches more often. But don't bash it just because you're an idiot. This list is about 80% filled with frustration when you read the mails. This list is about 80% filled with ignorant bullshit and pathetic whining when you read the mails. I wonder if the Win32 HLDS list is this bad, or if people like you are just another one of those shitstains on Tux that you have to put up if you want to run Linux. -- Eric (the Deacon remix) In a bold display of creativity, Mihai Badila wrote: On Fri, Oct 22, 2004 at 09:14:50PM +0100 or thereabouts, Mark Ellis wrote: Well we all need personal time but while Valve are down the beach I and many others are sitting here putting servers back up as fast as they are taken down because the smart guys at mygot release this info end of the week knowing that there will be 3-4 days before valve even start to look at a fix. We had a beta test and what a joke that was one map slow updates you could hardly call it a beta more just a hardware test. Agreed. Like many others I think valve is too slow at releasing these fixes, we all moved over to steam so they could send out lots of small fixes fast but from what I can see steam is just a way of them collecting more data on users than rolling out fixes. Steam is primary a money making machine. Its purpose is also delivering patches, content etc. but think.. Steam does a hell of a job for Valve and a really poor job for the little guy [valve steam product user]. And yes INDEPENDENCE from Vivendi [forgot about that one]. I'm not against Steam but no other company has ever used such a method of control for the money. This list is about 80% filled with frustration when you read the mails. Kinda makes you think cs, dod and others were doing fine back in the days when they were free. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
--On Saturday, October 23, 2004 8:48 PM +1000 Bruce \Bahamut\ Andrews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What isn't based on money? Name one company that did something knowing that they would not gain a profit from it or would not benefit in any way? Just a nit about terminology: Money is not the same thing as profit or benefit. It's a way of measuring profit and benefit. Which also means you don't have to restrict the assertion to companies. It applies to any entity that perceives benefit, from the lowliest proto-life to hives and corporations. Ok, I'll go ooze back into the slime now. ;) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Bruce Bahamut Andrews Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 12:21 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :( That's a rather...harsh way to put it, even if it does get the point across for you, I really don't believe profanity is needed in civilised conversation. There's so many more descriptive words out there you could choose to use, try them. http://www.thesaurus.com is your friend. (I think I spelt that right o.O) - Bruce Bahamut Andrews It seems that if the only thing you can complain about in his message is the word choice, then Eric has hit the nail directly on the head. Elminst --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.778 / Virus Database: 525 - Release Date: 10/15/2004 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
--On Saturday, October 23, 2004 12:19 PM +0100 Peter Holcroft [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem with that is that you're allowing a server op to run any code he wants on a players computer. I certainly wouldn't be happy about that, it could be a trojan or something else as nasty. The only way I could see this working would be to allow the use of a 3rd party data file with lists of things to check for in memory and let VAC do the checking. Read the PunkBuster EULA. It authorizes PB to do pretty much anything they want. This is from my copy of BF1942: Licensee acknowledges that PunkBuster software is optional and is not a requirement in any respect for using or enjoying games that integrate PunkBuster software technology. Licensee also acknowledges and agrees that PunkBuster software is self-updating, which means that future updates will, from time to time and without any notice, automatically be downloaded and installed as a normal and expected function of PunkBuster software. Licensee further acknowledges and accepts that PunkBuster software may be considered invasive. Licensee understands that PunkBuster software inspects and reports information about the computer on which it is installed to other connected computers and Licensee agrees to allow PunkBuster software to inspect and report such information about the computer on which Licensee installs PunkBuster software. Licensee understands and agrees that the information that may be inspected and reported by PunkBuster software includes, but is not limited to, devices and any files residing on the hard-drive and in the memory of the computer on which PunkBuster software is installed. Further, Licensee consents to allow PunkBuster software to transfer actual screenshots taken of Licensee's computer during the operation of PunkBuster software for possible publication. Licensee understands that the purpose and goal of PunkBuster is to ensure a cheat-free environment for all participants in online games. Licensee agrees that the invasive nature of PunkBuster software is necessary to meet this purpose and goal. Licensee agrees that any harm or lack of privacy resulting from the installation and use of PunkBuster software is not as valuable to Licensee as the potential ability to play interactive online games with the benefits afforded by using PunkBuster software. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
I think you misunderstood the post or perhaps I didn't make it clear. The issue isn't letting Valve or PunkBuster run code on a players PC. The issue is letting a server admin run any code they wish on a players PC. Not very smart seeing as anyone can start up their own server and wait for victims to join. My opinion is that a no tolerance approach is needed to cheats. By no tolerance I mean all cheats should be banned so quickly that it is stupid to release them to others because they will be unusable within a day. I can't see how any other approach will work effectively. Unfortunately Valve doesn't seem to think its worth the investment required to achieve this. It's a shame because they must have spent a lot of time creating VAC only for it to become ineffective most of the time due to lack of regular updates for it. I cannot see a solution to this if Valve doesn't think its worth spending the money required to do the job properly. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ScratchMonkey Sent: 23 October 2004 21:27 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [hlds_linux] another crasher :( Read the PunkBuster EULA. It authorizes PB to do pretty much anything they want. This is from my copy of BF1942: Licensee acknowledges that PunkBuster software is optional and is not a requirement in any respect for using or enjoying games that integrate PunkBuster software technology. Licensee also acknowledges and agrees that PunkBuster software is self-updating, which means that future updates will, from time to time and without any notice, automatically be downloaded and installed as a normal and expected function of PunkBuster software. Licensee further acknowledges and accepts that PunkBuster software may be considered invasive. Licensee understands that PunkBuster software inspects and reports information about the computer on which it is installed to other connected computers and Licensee agrees to allow PunkBuster software to inspect and report such information about the computer on which Licensee installs PunkBuster software. Licensee understands and agrees that the information that may be inspected and reported by PunkBuster software includes, but is not limited to, devices and any files residing on the hard-drive and in the memory of the computer on which PunkBuster software is installed. Further, Licensee consents to allow PunkBuster software to transfer actual screenshots taken of Licensee's computer during the operation of PunkBuster software for possible publication. Licensee understands that the purpose and goal of PunkBuster is to ensure a cheat-free environment for all participants in online games. Licensee agrees that the invasive nature of PunkBuster software is necessary to meet this purpose and goal. Licensee agrees that any harm or lack of privacy resulting from the installation and use of PunkBuster software is not as valuable to Licensee as the potential ability to play interactive online games with the benefits afforded by using PunkBuster software. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
In a bold display of creativity, Elminst wrote: It seems that if the only thing you can complain about in his message is the word choice, then Eric has hit the nail directly on the head. Heh, well, correct or not, it certainly got an internet-tough-guy response via direct email from Mihai... It was funny to read :) -- Eric (the Deacon remix) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
You've really got to wonder how difficult it is for them to stop people putting an OpenGL32.dll file in their hl.exe directory. I mean, it can't be that difficult, and it'd stop half the hacks that are out... :/ - Bruce Bahamut Andrews Peter Holcroft wrote: I think you misunderstood the post or perhaps I didn't make it clear. The issue isn't letting Valve or PunkBuster run code on a players PC. The issue is letting a server admin run any code they wish on a players PC. Not very smart seeing as anyone can start up their own server and wait for victims to join. My opinion is that a no tolerance approach is needed to cheats. By no tolerance I mean all cheats should be banned so quickly that it is stupid to release them to others because they will be unusable within a day. I can't see how any other approach will work effectively. Unfortunately Valve doesn't seem to think its worth the investment required to achieve this. It's a shame because they must have spent a lot of time creating VAC only for it to become ineffective most of the time due to lack of regular updates for it. I cannot see a solution to this if Valve doesn't think its worth spending the money required to do the job properly. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ScratchMonkey Sent: 23 October 2004 21:27 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [hlds_linux] another crasher :( Read the PunkBuster EULA. It authorizes PB to do pretty much anything they want. This is from my copy of BF1942: Licensee acknowledges that PunkBuster software is optional and is not a requirement in any respect for using or enjoying games that integrate PunkBuster software technology. Licensee also acknowledges and agrees that PunkBuster software is self-updating, which means that future updates will, from time to time and without any notice, automatically be downloaded and installed as a normal and expected function of PunkBuster software. Licensee further acknowledges and accepts that PunkBuster software may be considered invasive. Licensee understands that PunkBuster software inspects and reports information about the computer on which it is installed to other connected computers and Licensee agrees to allow PunkBuster software to inspect and report such information about the computer on which Licensee installs PunkBuster software. Licensee understands and agrees that the information that may be inspected and reported by PunkBuster software includes, but is not limited to, devices and any files residing on the hard-drive and in the memory of the computer on which PunkBuster software is installed. Further, Licensee consents to allow PunkBuster software to transfer actual screenshots taken of Licensee's computer during the operation of PunkBuster software for possible publication. Licensee understands that the purpose and goal of PunkBuster is to ensure a cheat-free environment for all participants in online games. Licensee agrees that the invasive nature of PunkBuster software is necessary to meet this purpose and goal. Licensee agrees that any harm or lack of privacy resulting from the installation and use of PunkBuster software is not as valuable to Licensee as the potential ability to play interactive online games with the benefits afforded by using PunkBuster software. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
What's REALLY sad about this... Is that while you're on the server... The kiddie will crash it/lag it out. Then... They join with a different nick until it gets to their fullness threshold and then start their crap again. WE NEED THIS SDK! No. You need a server update. If we had the SDK we could AT LEAST code fixes while Valve does nearly nothing with their Instant patch rollout. Anyhow, PLEASE Valve! At least make some native plug-in support. Not this 'You must wait while people screw over your server until the SDK is out' crap. How about instead of spending resources on the SDK Valve simply fixes the bugs in the server and releases an update so that every admin gets a fix and not only those that are willing to install admin mods? Plus, I reckon fixing the bugs in the server is faster than finishing the SDK *and* then waiting for plugin authors to finish their first plugin. Also, what I'm talking about here is FROM THE START. Make something along these lines. Not just suddenly make it before patching things now. But, that they should make something along these lines earlier. But, what I'm talking about is for Valve to actually help admins prevent lamers from taking down their servers. How about this... Microsoft doesn't patch their DCOM bug for a time... What do you do about that? You use another Microsoft product(ICF) (Or an off the shelf)to prevent it from happening to you until the patch comes out. You at least have some recourse besides just having to take down the server until there is a fix. ~ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
Good point there... Sorry for replying to you with this... But... I'd swear that HL2 is one of the most easy to crash remotely programs I've seen in a LONG time. Also, if there are such STUPID crashes as %n how many bugs are there to inject code to your server/clients to run? Imagine that... User overflows the server... All players and the server get recruited in the lamers botnet. Sorry, all these bugs have made me pissy. ~ Just curious: Does no one learn defensive programming anymore? And it's not like this is just a problem with Valve. Every software shop seems to repeat the same error. I recall MS making a big stink about sending its programmers to special defensive programming classes as part of their security initiative. Never trust the input. Never trust the user. Certainly don't trust crap from the network. And assume that everything is going to try to bust your buffers. Thinking like this isn't a panacea, but it sure decreases your exposure. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
bleh, it's just an output bug, it was fixed. Though as I pointed out on the HLDS mailing list, a forum post over at hlfallout.com has told us that the people using the cracked version of cs:source have to update manually, so you can crash them out by changing your nickname to %n and dying, while legitimate users will be unaffected. In relation to the emails that want the source code, I'm sure you'd have an absolute ball going through hundreds of millions of lines of foreign engine code trying to figure out which one specifically caused X issue. Give them a break, the Half-Life engine wasn't nearly as complicated as this one, at least they're actually trying to fix the stuff that goes wrong. - Bruce Bahamut Andrews Kevin Gerry wrote: Good point there... Sorry for replying to you with this... But... I'd swear that HL2 is one of the most easy to crash remotely programs I've seen in a LONG time. Also, if there are such STUPID crashes as %n how many bugs are there to inject code to your server/clients to run? Imagine that... User overflows the server... All players and the server get recruited in the lamers botnet. Sorry, all these bugs have made me pissy. ~ Just curious: Does no one learn defensive programming anymore? And it's not like this is just a problem with Valve. Every software shop seems to repeat the same error. I recall MS making a big stink about sending its programmers to special defensive programming classes as part of their security initiative. Never trust the input. Never trust the user. Certainly don't trust crap from the network. And assume that everything is going to try to bust your buffers. Thinking like this isn't a panacea, but it sure decreases your exposure. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
hey, imagine this, its a fucking BETA On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:11:11 +1000, Bruce Bahamut Andrews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: bleh, it's just an output bug, it was fixed. Though as I pointed out on the HLDS mailing list, a forum post over at hlfallout.com has told us that the people using the cracked version of cs:source have to update manually, so you can crash them out by changing your nickname to %n and dying, while legitimate users will be unaffected. In relation to the emails that want the source code, I'm sure you'd have an absolute ball going through hundreds of millions of lines of foreign engine code trying to figure out which one specifically caused X issue. Give them a break, the Half-Life engine wasn't nearly as complicated as this one, at least they're actually trying to fix the stuff that goes wrong. - Bruce Bahamut Andrews Kevin Gerry wrote: Good point there... Sorry for replying to you with this... But... I'd swear that HL2 is one of the most easy to crash remotely programs I've seen in a LONG time. Also, if there are such STUPID crashes as %n how many bugs are there to inject code to your server/clients to run? Imagine that... User overflows the server... All players and the server get recruited in the lamers botnet. Sorry, all these bugs have made me pissy. ~ Just curious: Does no one learn defensive programming anymore? And it's not like this is just a problem with Valve. Every software shop seems to repeat the same error. I recall MS making a big stink about sending its programmers to special defensive programming classes as part of their security initiative. Never trust the input. Never trust the user. Certainly don't trust crap from the network. And assume that everything is going to try to bust your buffers. Thinking like this isn't a panacea, but it sure decreases your exposure. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- Cheers! -- Elmer Fudd ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
hey, u need to read news ;) CS:S is f** official ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb am 22.10.04 12:50:09: hey, imagine this, its a fucking BETA On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:11:11 +1000, Bruce Bahamut Andrews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: bleh, it's just an output bug, it was fixed. Though as I pointed out on the HLDS mailing list, a forum post over at hlfallout.com has told us that the people using the cracked version of cs:source have to update manually, so you can crash them out by changing your nickname to %n and dying, while legitimate users will be unaffected. In relation to the emails that want the source code, I'm sure you'd have an absolute ball going through hundreds of millions of lines of foreign engine code trying to figure out which one specifically caused X issue. Give them a break, the Half-Life engine wasn't nearly as complicated as this one, at least they're actually trying to fix the stuff that goes wrong. - Bruce Bahamut Andrews Kevin Gerry wrote: Good point there... Sorry for replying to you with this... But... I'd swear that HL2 is one of the most easy to crash remotely programs I've seen in a LONG time. Also, if there are such STUPID crashes as %n how many bugs are there to inject code to your server/clients to run? Imagine that... User overflows the server... All players and the server get recruited in the lamers botnet. Sorry, all these bugs have made me pissy. ~ Just curious: Does no one learn defensive programming anymore? And it's not like this is just a problem with Valve. Every software shop seems to repeat the same error. I recall MS making a big stink about sending its programmers to special defensive programming classes as part of their security initiative. Never trust the input. Never trust the user. Certainly don't trust crap from the network. And assume that everything is going to try to bust your buffers. Thinking like this isn't a panacea, but it sure decreases your exposure. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- Cheers! -- Elmer Fudd ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
Dude, do the words Officially Released not mean anything to you? The beta ended weeks ago... - Bruce Bahamut Andrews Elmer Fudd wrote: hey, imagine this, its a fucking BETA On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:11:11 +1000, Bruce Bahamut Andrews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: bleh, it's just an output bug, it was fixed. Though as I pointed out on the HLDS mailing list, a forum post over at hlfallout.com has told us that the people using the cracked version of cs:source have to update manually, so you can crash them out by changing your nickname to %n and dying, while legitimate users will be unaffected. In relation to the emails that want the source code, I'm sure you'd have an absolute ball going through hundreds of millions of lines of foreign engine code trying to figure out which one specifically caused X issue. Give them a break, the Half-Life engine wasn't nearly as complicated as this one, at least they're actually trying to fix the stuff that goes wrong. - Bruce Bahamut Andrews Kevin Gerry wrote: Good point there... Sorry for replying to you with this... But... I'd swear that HL2 is one of the most easy to crash remotely programs I've seen in a LONG time. Also, if there are such STUPID crashes as %n how many bugs are there to inject code to your server/clients to run? Imagine that... User overflows the server... All players and the server get recruited in the lamers botnet. Sorry, all these bugs have made me pissy. ~ Just curious: Does no one learn defensive programming anymore? And it's not like this is just a problem with Valve. Every software shop seems to repeat the same error. I recall MS making a big stink about sending its programmers to special defensive programming classes as part of their security initiative. Never trust the input. Never trust the user. Certainly don't trust crap from the network. And assume that everything is going to try to bust your buffers. Thinking like this isn't a panacea, but it sure decreases your exposure. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- Cheers! -- Elmer Fudd ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
Elmer Fudd wrote: hey, imagine this, its a fucking BETA You need to get your facts straight. The beta of CSS was over when we had to pay to play. Most of us have paid around $50 to play this game. Yes, you can say this came free with HL2, but there is no way that the majority of us would have forked out money up front for a game we have been waiting over 2 years for if we were not expecting to get something else in the meantime. As for server administrators and people who are trying to make a living out of hosting games, this is a complete shambles. Over the years, we have suffered numerous remote exploits and server crashes and Valve seem to have learned nothing from this. As myself and someone else has correctly pointed out, what if this '%n' bug is just the tip of the iceberg? What other bugs are waiting to surface that might allow an attacker access to a clients machine or to take control of the server itself? Matt. ps. When are you going to make the models look less stick insect like in CSS? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
Bruce Bahamut Andrews wrote: Dude, do the words Officially Released not mean anything to you? The beta ended weeks ago... The words says Official. The WORKING STATUS says BETA. -- dual_bereta_r0x -- Alexandre Hautequest ArenaNetwork Lan House Cyber -- www.arenanetwork.com.br ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
so? That just means they didn't bother to update certain texts. It's still official. - Bruce Bahamut Andrews dual_bereta_r0x wrote: Bruce Bahamut Andrews wrote: Dude, do the words Officially Released not mean anything to you? The beta ended weeks ago... The words says Official. The WORKING STATUS says BETA. -- dual_bereta_r0x -- Alexandre Hautequest ArenaNetwork Lan House Cyber -- www.arenanetwork.com.br ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
Bruce Bahamut Andrews wrote: so? That just means they didn't bother to update certain texts. It's still official. LMAO Dude, lets try again. Valve says their product is officially released, and this can be interpreted as working. Valve's product, when in execution, did not work as it was designed/should work. So, its Working Status is like a beta. -- dual_bereta_r0x -- Alexandre Hautequest ArenaNetwork Lan House Cyber -- www.arenanetwork.com.br ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
Kevin Gerry wrote: If we had the SDK we could AT LEAST code fixes while Valve does nearly nothing with their Instant patch rollout. If you HAD it. But the point is, and you missed that, that the SDK is still IN THE WORKS, it's not done yet. It's not like it is sitting on someones harddisk who is just too lazy to pack it up for release. And between Valve spending time to get the SDK ready and to a releasable state and Valve spending time on fixing a bug and rolling put an update, I'd go for the latter any time. Try to understand the implications before replying. Florian ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
Right, so they go to all the trouble of selling the game, changing it's status to 'Complete' and begin the patching cycle, yet that's still classed as beta to you? Tough standards. - Bruce Bahamut Andrews dual_bereta_r0x wrote: Bruce Bahamut Andrews wrote: so? That just means they didn't bother to update certain texts. It's still official. LMAO Dude, lets try again. Valve says their product is officially released, and this can be interpreted as working. Valve's product, when in execution, did not work as it was designed/should work. So, its Working Status is like a beta. -- dual_bereta_r0x -- Alexandre Hautequest ArenaNetwork Lan House Cyber -- www.arenanetwork.com.br ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
Bruce Bahamut Andrews wrote: Right, so they go to all the trouble of selling the game, changing it's status to 'Complete' and begin the patching cycle, yet that's still classed as beta to you? Not to take sides at all, but has ANY software been relased that has been 100% perfect? Not that I recall. Software, being code, I don't think can ever be exactly perfect, so I don't think it's fair to slam Valve for the bug being there, however what's concerning is the amount of time it took to fix. I remember for a while when we were seeing at times 2 VAC updates a day, if not one a day - I'd like to think a bug like that would be high priority enough that a patch would have been out within a few hours, and at most a day. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
dude give them a break, it appeared right before a weekend, they need personal time as well. - Bruce Bahamut Andrews Scott Pettit wrote: Bruce Bahamut Andrews wrote: Right, so they go to all the trouble of selling the game, changing it's status to 'Complete' and begin the patching cycle, yet that's still classed as beta to you? Not to take sides at all, but has ANY software been relased that has been 100% perfect? Not that I recall. Software, being code, I don't think can ever be exactly perfect, so I don't think it's fair to slam Valve for the bug being there, however what's concerning is the amount of time it took to fix. I remember for a while when we were seeing at times 2 VAC updates a day, if not one a day - I'd like to think a bug like that would be high priority enough that a patch would have been out within a few hours, and at most a day. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
--On Saturday, October 23, 2004 2:40 AM +1300 Scott Pettit [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Software, being code, I don't think can ever be exactly perfect, so I don't think it's fair to slam Valve for the bug being there, however what's concerning is the amount of time it took to fix. God, I hope Airbus doesn't take that attitude with its fly-by-wire systems! Life-critical software is designed from the ground up with cross-checks and distrust, and then undergoes massive auditing to make sure the process was followed. I'm not asking for all the paperwork. I'm just asking for the attitude. At least think maliciously when you code and try to imagine the ways your code can be attacked. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
since when is CS:S life-critical? maybe to you, but you should really hang out with frineds(NOT ONLINE) and play some sports(not CPL) On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:30:28 -0700, ScratchMonkey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --On Saturday, October 23, 2004 2:40 AM +1300 Scott Pettit [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Software, being code, I don't think can ever be exactly perfect, so I don't think it's fair to slam Valve for the bug being there, however what's concerning is the amount of time it took to fix. God, I hope Airbus doesn't take that attitude with its fly-by-wire systems! Life-critical software is designed from the ground up with cross-checks and distrust, and then undergoes massive auditing to make sure the process was followed. I'm not asking for all the paperwork. I'm just asking for the attitude. At least think maliciously when you code and try to imagine the ways your code can be attacked. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- Cheers! -- Elmer Fudd ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
When server hosting company employees need to be able afford to buy food!! Elmer Fudd wrote: since when is CS:S life-critical? maybe to you, but you should really hang out with frineds(NOT ONLINE) and play some sports(not CPL) On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:30:28 -0700, ScratchMonkey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --On Saturday, October 23, 2004 2:40 AM +1300 Scott Pettit [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Software, being code, I don't think can ever be exactly perfect, so I don't think it's fair to slam Valve for the bug being there, however what's concerning is the amount of time it took to fix. God, I hope Airbus doesn't take that attitude with its fly-by-wire systems! Life-critical software is designed from the ground up with cross-checks and distrust, and then undergoes massive auditing to make sure the process was followed. I'm not asking for all the paperwork. I'm just asking for the attitude. At least think maliciously when you code and try to imagine the ways your code can be attacked. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- Cheers! -- Elmer Fudd ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
Florian- I am in NO WAY saying that Valve should hurry with the SDK/etc. Or that it's already RTM ready. HOWEVER, what I -AM- saying is that Valve should actually patch things faster than they are currently. Come on, how many lines of code is that %n bug to fix? Be honest there. After fixing it... How long does it take to re-compile the client/server? Valve is touting Steam as a way to 'Nearly instantly update code/bugs on all their clients seamlessly' ... They have yet to prove they're actually going to do THEIR part of the job though. ~ If we had the SDK we could AT LEAST code fixes while Valve does nearly nothing with their Instant patch rollout. If you HAD it. But the point is, and you missed that, that the SDK is still IN THE WORKS, it's not done yet. It's not like it is sitting on someones harddisk who is just too lazy to pack it up for release. And between Valve spending time to get the SDK ready and to a releasable state and Valve spending time on fixing a bug and rolling put an update, I'd go for the latter any time. Try to understand the implications before replying. Florian ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
Well we all need personal time but while Valve are down the beach I and many others are sitting here putting servers back up as fast as they are taken down because the smart guys at mygot release this info end of the week knowing that there will be 3-4 days before valve even start to look at a fix. We had a beta test and what a joke that was one map slow updates you could hardly call it a beta more just a hardware test. Like many others I think valve is too slow at releasing these fixes, we all moved over to steam so they could send out lots of small fixes fast but from what I can see steam is just a way of them collecting more data on users than rolling out fixes. Mark -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruce Bahamut Andrews Sent: 22 October 2004 15:51 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :( dude give them a break, it appeared right before a weekend, they need personal time as well. - Bruce Bahamut Andrews Scott Pettit wrote: Bruce Bahamut Andrews wrote: Right, so they go to all the trouble of selling the game, changing it's status to 'Complete' and begin the patching cycle, yet that's still classed as beta to you? Not to take sides at all, but has ANY software been relased that has been 100% perfect? Not that I recall. Software, being code, I don't think can ever be exactly perfect, so I don't think it's fair to slam Valve for the bug being there, however what's concerning is the amount of time it took to fix. I remember for a while when we were seeing at times 2 VAC updates a day, if not one a day - I'd like to think a bug like that would be high priority enough that a patch would have been out within a few hours, and at most a day. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.779 / Virus Database: 526 - Release Date: 19/10/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.779 / Virus Database: 526 - Release Date: 19/10/2004 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
Kevin Gerry wrote: HOWEVER, what I -AM- saying is that Valve should actually patch things faster than they are currently. I wasn't in any way arguing against *that*. :) Come on, how many lines of code is that %n bug to fix? Be honest there. One. After fixing it... How long does it take to re-compile the client/server? Longer than you think but still not long enough to serve as an argument. :) But the fun starts *after* all that. I don't want to start an argument about that, but, just for info, it might interest you that fixing a bug means more than changing one line and rebuilding. It needs to be tested, verified, cross-checked, made sure that it doesn't affect other parts, made sure that this and only this change is in the rebuild, etc. For a company a software bug is not just changing one line of code but much more expensive. We're lucky that Valve isn't Microsoft, because for them one small bug is even much, much more expensive. :) Florian ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
Alright, I just read through this entire series of posts and have some things to say: 1. Stop flaming VALVe, without them, you wouldn't have the game you have(Server companies wouldn't be making money off of it either). Besides, complaining doesn't help, just state the problem, solutions if you found them, and how to reproduce it. 2. The SDK will be ready when they finish it. 3. Stop asking for the source code, you know you won't get it, and if you do, I highly doubt you can out-code VALVe's coders. 4. The updates, from the beginning, have been set to be released on Wednesdays. Though, it has been mostly skipping between Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday; that's close enough. 5. Bugs are not a new phenomenon. This game, and every game before it(including original Half-Life) has had a lot of bugs, especially with the original versions. On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 22:25:00 +0200, Florian Zschocke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin Gerry wrote: HOWEVER, what I -AM- saying is that Valve should actually patch things faster than they are currently. I wasn't in any way arguing against *that*. :) Come on, how many lines of code is that %n bug to fix? Be honest there. One. After fixing it... How long does it take to re-compile the client/server? Longer than you think but still not long enough to serve as an argument. :) But the fun starts *after* all that. I don't want to start an argument about that, but, just for info, it might interest you that fixing a bug means more than changing one line and rebuilding. It needs to be tested, verified, cross-checked, made sure that it doesn't affect other parts, made sure that this and only this change is in the rebuild, etc. For a company a software bug is not just changing one line of code but much more expensive. We're lucky that Valve isn't Microsoft, because for them one small bug is even much, much more expensive. :) Florian ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- Gilly Cottle ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
Uhm, were you here for that HLDS release that was packaged with a virus? Their main compiling machine had a virus on it that went in to the windows HLDS release. A 'lucky' person got the HLDS release just before it was officially released and told Valve this... So... What testing/verifying/crosschecking? ^_^ (I was up until after I think 4AM that morning because of that delay! Took them 4 hours to recompile/upload HLDS!) ~ and rebuilding. It needs to be tested, verified, cross-checked, made sure that it doesn't affect other parts, made sure that this and only this change is in the rebuild, etc. For a company a software bug is not just changing one line of code but much more expensive. We're lucky that Valve isn't Microsoft, because for them one small bug is even much, much more expensive. :) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
In order: 1: Not completely flaming them. I paid my $60 for a product that I believed to be stable. 2: I know that it'll be ready when they finish it. They can't put something out that isn't there. 3: We are asking for the source code? I didn't know... 4: Yeah, but there is a such think as compromising. When there is a show stopping bug... You patch it. ^_^ 5: Yeah, I know they're(bugs) not new... However, I'd like to have a game like Asherons Call that even 3-6 months after it game was out it didn't need patching. ~ Alright, I just read through this entire series of posts and have some things to say: 1. Stop flaming VALVe, without them, you wouldn't have the game you have(Server companies wouldn't be making money off of it either). Besides, complaining doesn't help, just state the problem, solutions if you found them, and how to reproduce it. 2. The SDK will be ready when they finish it. 3. Stop asking for the source code, you know you won't get it, and if you do, I highly doubt you can out-code VALVe's coders. 4. The updates, from the beginning, have been set to be released on Wednesdays. Though, it has been mostly skipping between Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday; that's close enough. 5. Bugs are not a new phenomenon. This game, and every game before it(including original Half-Life) has had a lot of bugs, especially with the original versions. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
stop bitching, start reporting correctly or code it better your self. daaam this list is getting more and more lets see who can bitch most over valve - Original Message - From: Micheal Patterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 9:35 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :( This type of thing is not going to get any better either. People are starting to realize, that by default, hlds, and now Source, has little to no auto-protection systems internally. All of the anti-flood, anti-this, and anti-that, were all included in adminmod, amx, amxx, etc. -- Micheal Patterson Senior Communications Systems Engineer 405-917-0600 Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. - Original Message - From: Jurgen van den Handel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 12:03 PM Subject: [hlds_linux] another crasher :( [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] found an empty server with a lggg listing of this : L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: a133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to b L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: b133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to c L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: c133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to d L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: d133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to e L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: e133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to f L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: f133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to g L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: g133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to h L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: h133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to i L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: i133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to j L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: j133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to k L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: k133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to a *continued until server crashed* guess some overflow triggers a server crash :( 32 peep server by the way. CL p.s. it's just f'ing unbelievable. -- Play online games with your friends with MSN Messenger[1] ===References:=== 1. http://g.msn.com/8HMBENNL/2743??PS=47575 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
Christian Ingholt wrote: stop bitching, start reporting correctly or code it better your self. Give us the source code and watch the changes. -- dual_bereta_r0x -- Alexandre Hautequest ArenaNetwork Lan House Cyber -- www.arenanetwork.com.br ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
A client-side block then maybe? I was just on a server now with some script kiddie nick-change flooding. The server didn't crash, but the resulting lag was pretty awful :-(. The funny thing was that he was changing nick between myg0t-ownz-u and another, just as he was being shot in the head :-) classic moments --- Chris Adams Fragzzhost T (07005) 964 855 F (07005) 964 857 www.fragzzhost.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric (Deacon) Sent: 21 October 2004 03:35 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :( In a bold display of creativity, m0gely wrote: There needs to be some decent flood control built in to the server for stuff like this. Chat spamming and things like this where people are spamming name changes etc just shouldn't be allowed. So if someone trys to change their name 2 times in a round or something they just get a msg Only one name change per round allowed. Just like team switching too much. How would that significantly change anything? You're still receiving, acknowledging, and then handling the request, issuing a response... -- Eric (the Deacon remix) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
Well, I think that there should be some Client-side and Server-side blocking of this. What's REALLY sad about this... Is that while you're on the server... The kiddie will crash it/lag it out. Then... They join with a different nick until it gets to their fullness threshold and then start their crap again. WE NEED THIS SDK! At least some darn 'AMX/AdminMod' even if it's Valve made. SOMETHING streamlined that allows plug-ins so it'd do anything. You know... Like a cstrike/bin/plugins directory that it'd autoload everything there on mapchange. (Plug-ins done in AMod/AMX format or similar language.) Anyhow, PLEASE Valve! At least make some native plug-in support. Not this 'You must wait while people screw over your server until the SDK is out' crap. Thanks! ~ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hlds_linux- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Adams Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 10:34 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [hlds_linux] another crasher :( A client-side block then maybe? I was just on a server now with some script kiddie nick-change flooding. The server didn't crash, but the resulting lag was pretty awful :-(. The funny thing was that he was changing nick between myg0t-ownz-u and another, just as he was being shot in the head :-) classic moments --- Chris Adams Fragzzhost T (07005) 964 855 F (07005) 964 857 www.fragzzhost.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric (Deacon) Sent: 21 October 2004 03:35 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :( In a bold display of creativity, m0gely wrote: There needs to be some decent flood control built in to the server for stuff like this. Chat spamming and things like this where people are spamming name changes etc just shouldn't be allowed. So if someone trys to change their name 2 times in a round or something they just get a msg Only one name change per round allowed. Just like team switching too much. How would that significantly change anything? You're still receiving, acknowledging, and then handling the request, issuing a response... -- Eric (the Deacon remix) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
. - Original Message - From: Christian Ingholt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 12:20 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :( stop bitching, start reporting correctly or code it better your self. daaam this list is getting more and more lets see who can bitch most over valve - Original Message - From: Micheal Patterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 9:35 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :( This type of thing is not going to get any better either. People are starting to realize, that by default, hlds, and now Source, has little to no auto-protection systems internally. All of the anti-flood, anti-this, and anti-that, were all included in adminmod, amx, amxx, etc. -- Micheal Patterson Senior Communications Systems Engineer 405-917-0600 snip Software copyright = !mine Software Development Kit = !not released Know the difference between Open and Closed Source software = !you -- Micheal Patterson Senior Communications Systems Engineer 405-917-0600 Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
How about Write your own and see how far you get. So many peeps that think they can do it better but haven't. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of dual_bereta_r0x Sent: 21 October 2004 18:38 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :( Christian Ingholt wrote: stop bitching, start reporting correctly or code it better your self. Give us the source code and watch the changes. -- dual_bereta_r0x -- Alexandre Hautequest ArenaNetwork Lan House Cyber -- www.arenanetwork.com.br ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
richy wrote: How about Write your own and see how far you get. So many peeps that think they can do it better but haven't. this has been discussed way too much in the past, and the problem is always the same. If YOU are happy with all problems we have, that's ok. Unfortunately, some of us ARE NOT, and simply asking for a solution. WE didnt earn money running free servers for VALVe. Meanwhile, VALVe earns money selling copies of a (somewhat) buggy software. If a server has ONE bad player, crashing and taking over it, others didnt care if this is not our fault. They will not join again because this server is crowded of kids and admins dont matter. Who will be blamed? VALVe or us?! Think again. We aren't the villain, we just need things working to make our players happy and VALVe happy. stop bitching, start reporting correctly or code it better your self. Give us the source code and watch the changes. -- dual_bereta_r0x -- Alexandre Hautequest ArenaNetwork Lan House Cyber -- www.arenanetwork.com.br ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
Kevin Gerry wrote: What's REALLY sad about this... Is that while you're on the server... The kiddie will crash it/lag it out. Then... They join with a different nick until it gets to their fullness threshold and then start their crap again. WE NEED THIS SDK! No. You need a server update. Anyhow, PLEASE Valve! At least make some native plug-in support. Not this 'You must wait while people screw over your server until the SDK is out' crap. How about instead of spending resources on the SDK Valve simply fixes the bugs in the server and releases an update so that every admin gets a fix and not only those that are willing to install admin mods? Plus, I reckon fixing the bugs in the server is faster than finishing the SDK *and* then waiting for plugin authors to finish their first plugin. Florian ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
--On Thursday, October 21, 2004 11:55 PM +0200 Florian Zschocke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How about instead of spending resources on the SDK Valve simply fixes the bugs in the server Just curious: Does no one learn defensive programming anymore? And it's not like this is just a problem with Valve. Every software shop seems to repeat the same error. I recall MS making a big stink about sending its programmers to special defensive programming classes as part of their security initiative. Never trust the input. Never trust the user. Certainly don't trust crap from the network. And assume that everything is going to try to bust your buffers. Thinking like this isn't a panacea, but it sure decreases your exposure. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
James Sykes schrieb: I've seen this quite a lot, seems to take quite a lot of spamming before the server crashes though. -Original Message- From: Jurgen van den Handel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 20 October 2004 18:03 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [hlds_linux] another crasher :( [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] found an empty server with a lggg listing of this : L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: a133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to b L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: b133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to c L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: c133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to d L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: d133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to e L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: e133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to f L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: f133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to g L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: g133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to h L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: h133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to i L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: i133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to j L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: j133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to k L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: k133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to a *continued until server crashed* guess some overflow triggers a server crash :( 32 peep server by the way. CL p.s. it's just f'ing unbelievable. looks like a namechange-script like this one: alias namechange name1 alias name1 name a; wait; alias name1 name2 alias name2 name b; wait; alias name2 name3 alias name3 and u r right. this is f'ing unbelieveable! ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
James Sykes wrote: I've seen this quite a lot, seems to take quite a lot of spamming before the server crashes though. There needs to be some decent flood control built in to the server for stuff like this. Chat spamming and things like this where people are spamming name changes etc just shouldn't be allowed. So if someone trys to change their name 2 times in a round or something they just get a msg Only one name change per round allowed. Just like team switching too much. mp_chatfreq 2 ; time in seconds for new chat msg mp_chatfreqmax 15 ; chat msg's allowed in mp_chatfreqtime before kick mp_chatfreqtime 30 ; time in seconds to track mp_chatfreqmax mp_chatfreqmax 15 would be theoretically allowed per the mp_chatfreq setting of 2 but if people just keep doing it over and over for a certain length of time then it's obvious they are just ticking people off on purpose. -- - m0gely http://quake2.telestream.com/ Q2 | Q3A | Counter-strike ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
no, look at the timestamps. it all happened on the same second which makes me believe that he used a script to change his name. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Sykes Sent: Mittwoch, 20. Oktober 2004 20:09 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [hlds_linux] another crasher :( I've seen this quite a lot, seems to take quite a lot of spamming before the server crashes though. -Original Message- From: Jurgen van den Handel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 20 October 2004 18:03 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [hlds_linux] another crasher :( [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] found an empty server with a lggg listing of this : L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: a133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to b L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: b133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to c L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: c133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to d L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: d133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to e L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: e133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to f L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: f133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to g L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: g133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to h L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: h133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to i L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: i133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to j L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: j133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to k L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: k133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to a *continued until server crashed* guess some overflow triggers a server crash :( 32 peep server by the way. CL p.s. it's just f'ing unbelievable. -- Play online games with your friends with MSN Messenger[1] ===References:=== 1. http://g.msn.com/8HMBENNL/2743??PS=47575 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
This type of thing is not going to get any better either. People are starting to realize, that by default, hlds, and now Source, has little to no auto-protection systems internally. All of the anti-flood, anti-this, and anti-that, were all included in adminmod, amx, amxx, etc. -- Micheal Patterson Senior Communications Systems Engineer 405-917-0600 Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. - Original Message - From: Jurgen van den Handel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 12:03 PM Subject: [hlds_linux] another crasher :( [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] found an empty server with a lggg listing of this : L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: a133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to b L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: b133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to c L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: c133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to d L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: d133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to e L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: e133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to f L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: f133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to g L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: g133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to h L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: h133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to i L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: i133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to j L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: j133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to k L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: k133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to a *continued until server crashed* guess some overflow triggers a server crash :( 32 peep server by the way. CL p.s. it's just f'ing unbelievable. -- Play online games with your friends with MSN Messenger[1] ===References:=== 1. http://g.msn.com/8HMBENNL/2743??PS=47575 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
Micheal Patterson schrieb: This type of thing is not going to get any better either. People are starting to realize, that by default, hlds, and now Source, has little to no auto-protection systems internally. All of the anti-flood, anti-this, and anti-that, were all included in adminmod, amx, amxx, etc. -- Micheal Patterson Senior Communications Systems Engineer 405-917-0600 Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. okay, thats right, but we got a lots of people out there, those don't wonna use any kind of this server-plugins. it would be very nice if these things are implemented in the server, isn't it? imho i love the lil rcon-thing, when it's up and working, u know : I think, there is a lots of things to do. Regards Robert. @m0gely - good ideas m8 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 4:23 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :( Micheal Patterson schrieb: This type of thing is not going to get any better either. People are starting to realize, that by default, hlds, and now Source, has little to no auto-protection systems internally. All of the anti-flood, anti-this, and anti-that, were all included in adminmod, amx, amxx, etc. -- Micheal Patterson Senior Communications Systems Engineer 405-917-0600 Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. okay, thats right, but we got a lots of people out there, those don't wonna use any kind of this server-plugins. it would be very nice if these things are implemented in the server, isn't it? imho i love the lil rcon-thing, when it's up and working, u know : I think, there is a lots of things to do. Regards Robert. @m0gely - good ideas m8 No arguments from me on this. I for one, would love to have some of the functions of amx or adminmod native to the srcds code but to implement them would probably be a nightmare within the core components. That goes without saying that regular updates to VAC alone would be a welcome addition that would help tremedously. -- Micheal Patterson Senior Communications Systems Engineer 405-917-0600 Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
anyone got a more detailed log file of this happening? Even a full one if it doesn't actually have an error message like commandbuffer overflow would be helpful to Alfred and the other VALVe dudes as they'd be able to determine exactly what was causing the crash. Wonder who's discovering all these bugs though. I mean, it's good that we're getting them all out of the way at the start instead of random things appearing a year after release, but really, it's a bit stupid that one crash bug is solved and another exploit is discovered that crashes it again. :| - Bruce Bahamut Andrews James Sykes wrote: I've seen this quite a lot, seems to take quite a lot of spamming before the server crashes though. -Original Message- From: Jurgen van den Handel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 20 October 2004 18:03 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [hlds_linux] another crasher :( [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] found an empty server with a lggg listing of this : L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: a133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to b L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: b133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to c L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: c133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to d L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: d133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to e L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: e133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to f L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: f133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to g L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: g133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to h L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: h133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to i L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: i133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to j L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: j133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to k L1020030.log:L 10/20/2009 - 18:17:34: k133STEAM_0:0:3284749CT changed name to a *continued until server crashed* guess some overflow triggers a server crash :( 32 peep server by the way. CL p.s. it's just f'ing unbelievable. -- Play online games with your friends with MSN Messenger[1] ===References:=== 1. http://g.msn.com/8HMBENNL/2743??PS=47575 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] another crasher :(
In a bold display of creativity, m0gely wrote: There needs to be some decent flood control built in to the server for stuff like this. Chat spamming and things like this where people are spamming name changes etc just shouldn't be allowed. So if someone trys to change their name 2 times in a round or something they just get a msg Only one name change per round allowed. Just like team switching too much. How would that significantly change anything? You're still receiving, acknowledging, and then handling the request, issuing a response... -- Eric (the Deacon remix) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
