Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[David W. Jones]

On 10/12/2015 07:28 PM, brandan34 via hugin and other free panoramic 
software wrote:

I have had enough problems finding some of the controls that I have
given up and made a several scripts to edit the pto file outside of
hugin. In fairness I had that problem with the old hugin as well. This
new one has solved a few and hidden some others. The last few versions
have some pretty handy features.(auto stacking and the new CPfinder are
both really nice compared to the older versions.)

One of you guys posted and made it sound easy to move the code around in
hugin. Now you have me interested and I will take a look at it.

On a side note, someone mentioned here that they do not like having the
simple editor on a different screen than the advanced. I wonder how that
was any different than having the fast preview on a different window.

As for the answer, get a second monitor for your computer and open the
preview on the second monitor. I have started doing that the last few
months and I really love it. Now I can see what each change does in real
time vs checking on my work every once in a while and then finding I had
made a mistake a few minutes ago and need to redo a lot.


Just don't try it if you've got a panorama loaded with lots of images. I 
have one comprised of several hundred images spanning about several 
miles of Canadian coastline. Takes several minutes to update the preview!



Over all a good product and I am very thankful someone is keeping the
code moving(the new cpfinder and auto stacking both great new features)


I still think Hugin's one interface window should be the fast preview 
window. Of course, when you first import images, they might not be 
arrange sensibly, but if they were by default laid out in some order 
that made sense (time stamp in the image? ascending/descending filename, 
since many cameras name images IMG1, IMG2, etc?). Let user drag 
them around to get them roughly in the desired order.


User can select multiple shots in the preview window, then right-click 
to pick appropriate options from a popup menu.


I've been using Hugin since the interface change, and having two 
different windows, one of which has three different modes, while the 
other (Fast Preview) appears to be the only way to access the 
novice-friendly Assistant function, is confusing and clumsy.


--
David W. Jones
gnomeno...@gmail.com
wandering the landscape of god
http://dancingtreefrog.com

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Terry Duell]

Hello Yuval,

On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 22:14:25 +1000, Yuval Levy  wrote:


Hi Terry, and everybody else:

On 15-09-21 01:55 AM, Terry Duell wrote:


[snip]



That's a good point, but I think it is unlikely that the developer(s)
would have ended up implementing a design that caused themselves  
concerns.


You mean it is unlikely that the developer would have ended up
implementing a design that caused him concerns, or more generally that
designs that caused concerns  would not have been implemented by the
developer?


I meant your first case...that it was unlikely that the developer would  
implement a design that caused him concerns.


[snip]


If there is a reasonable number of users who are dissatisfied with the
new interface, hopefully they will express their views and prompt some
more discussion.


There will always be some users expressing "dissatisfaction."  So what?
 Discussion is just noise.


I don't see any problem with discussion about issues that concern people.  
It may just result in some getting involved and contributing patches.


Cheers,
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Terry Duell

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[J. Schneider]

Hello all, hello John,
you expressed a couple of problems that I experience, too. It took me 
quite some time to get used to it.


1. "Hiding the Optimizer and Exposure windows is confusing." I guess you 
meant the tabs. These are displayed as soon as you choose a setting like 
"custom parameters" for geometric or photometric optimisation. So they 
are not displayed as long as there are not settings to change. Quite 
useful I find - but see issue 4.


2. Why is there no delete button? I wonder too! That's what GUIs are 
for. They should present the possible commands and not make you search 
for them. (Anyway, you can just hit the delete key!)


3. This new underlining & bolding UI is not only less ergonomic to read 
and to use, I must admit I have never understood how to use it properly. 
I can "select all" or "unselect all" images to be optimized for a 
specific parameter.
Thank you John! You mentioned Ctrl-clicking and I tried and only now 
found out how to optimise a parameter for only one image (or a 
selection, but not all).  I really think there should be a more obvious 
way to do this.
Or have I been living under a rock and this is something a computer user 
usually knows?
This is why I have not uninstalled the last hugin version with the old 
UI and although I know now how to use it I would still be grateful if it 
could be reverted to checkboxes.


4. Yes, the sub menu structure of these menus doesn't make it clear 
where to find that. When you have the Exposure tab displayed (see 
above!) it's easier or more obvious: When you hit the "Reset" button, 
you get a similar dialogue to that "reset custom ..." one and here it's 
in the first option. I think, too, this should be easier to find. 
Although this is probably a very special use case.



Best regards
Joachim Schneider


Am 17.09.2015 um 21:06 schrieb John Eklund:
After sticking to an old Hugin version for years ("if it ain't broken, 
don't fix it"), I finally created a project which made the old cpfind 
crash (500 images gigapixel), so I reminded myself that new is not 
necessarily bad, took the plunge and upgraded to Hugin 2015.0.0.


Wow what a change! And not just for the better. I used to be a Hugin 
power user. Now I feel like an amateur again. There are some 
frustrating nags. Here are the most important ones:


1. Hiding the Optimizer and Exposure windows is confusing. I want 
everything! I am using the Expert interface and still Hugin hides 
things from me.


Why are automatic optimizations moved to the Photos tab while custom 
optimizations remain on the Optimizer tab? Confusing. I also miss the 
connection between exactly what parameters are marked when selecting a 
predefined optimization. I want to see what is what. I often select 
one of the predefined optimizations as a quick way of mass-ticking 
parameters as a basis and then elaborating on them manually before 
actually optimizing "custom parameters". Thankfully this still works 
but doing it in separate tabs is tedious and confusing.


2. Thanks to #1, it took me a while before I found how to change / 
delete a lens. Why are there no buttons? "Every" function should exist 
as a button, not just in the right-click menu.


3. Underlining & bolding the parameters selected for optimization 
makes them hard to distinguish. Please go back to checkboxes, which 
makes it possible using Tab and Space to mark the boxes. Ctrl-clicking 
is tedious.


4. Resetting ALL exposure correction (incl EV) should be more obvious. 
I mix images created in Enfuse with straight-from-camera images with 
images that have been manipulated with ancient tools and a tool I've 
developed myself (PicStack) that do not retain any EXIF data. I know 
what I'm doing and adjust every image by hand before touching Hugin. I 
never want Hugin to know anything about exposure. I had a hard time 
figuring out how to get rid of the EV values for EXIF-containing 
images. Why are these not reset by "Reset lens parameters" and I have 
to instead "Reset user defined..."?


Any hopes of getting these nags rectified?

Best regards
John Eklund, Sweden

Some of my work:
http://www.elmuseum.se/panorama/
...


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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Bruno Postle]

On 21 September 2015 03:59:45 BST, John Muccigrosso wrote:
>
>If I might, I'd suggest that, at least IMO, a lot of the responses to
>the 
>grumbling were fairly final sounding and even a bit harsh. A look back
>at 
>the responses when the new UI was being shown shows complaints about a 
>number of things.

The new UI was a response to Hugin's main usability problem - which was that 
hundreds of thousands of people would install it and completely fail to get 
anything to work - it required that users understood all sorts of obscure 
concepts before even starting.

This problem is mostly solved - someone who just wants to stitch together a few 
photos taken on holiday has a good chance that this will just work.

Now the situation is that you need to understand lots of obscure concepts to do 
advanced things, but this is a much better problem to have.

One thing we see regularly is people trying to do advanced stuff entirely using 
the wizard in the preview window, these people need to be gently directed to 
advanced features. The bits we find annoying, such as when optimisation 
controls are hidden until enabled, are like this so Hugin doesn't scare users 
who are on this learning gradient.

Obviously there are lots of things that could be improved: there is a control 
on the Photos tab that is incredibly useful for changing settings on the 
Optimiser tab, and I also find that switching backwards and forwards between 
the two tabs slows me down. Combining the two would mean that the Optimiser tab 
is always visible, do we want this?


-- 
Bruno

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[John Muccigrosso]

As a non-programmer (know enough to be dangerous, but only in very limited 
circumstances :-) ), I very much appreciate the comments of Yuv and Bruno.

My own sense is similar to Bruno's: simple stuff often works great, but 
when there's a problem, it can be really hard to figure out why.

I've learned a lot from the tutorials (even updated a couple) and think 
that a real manual would go a long way. Not just a manual that outlined the 
basics, but one that gets under the hood a bit. Often when I read a good 
answer to a problem posed in this group, it explains what's happening in a 
way that I could never have figured out by myself and that explanation of 
what's going on inside Hugin is revealing and useful beyond the immediate 
case. (Bruno's responses are often good examples of this.) Some of the 
tutorials are great in this way.

So that's a plug for a more in-depth user manual.

In terms of the GUI, I find myself with at least two major problems:

1. I have to bounce around the various tabs and screens a lot. This is 
especially true for the advanced mode with its own window. An interface 
that reflected the usual workflow better would be great. (The separate 
window for Advanced mode got a lot of criticism, IIRC.)

2. A lot of the interfaces seem not well laid out (and I think I've 
commented on a few of these things in various threads). For example, there 
are radio buttons where you might expect checkboxes, or a control under one 
heading is actual globally valid.

So without going into details, those are the big-picture items that occur 
to me.

I appreciate greatly the work that's been done to bring Hugin where it is 
now.

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Bruno Postle]

On 21 September 2015 03:59:45 BST, John Muccigrosso wrote:
>
>If I might, I'd suggest that, at least IMO, a lot of the responses to
>the 
>grumbling were fairly final sounding and even a bit harsh. A look back
>at 
>the responses when the new UI was being shown shows complaints about a 
>number of things.

The new UI was a response to Hugin's main usability problem - which was that 
hundreds of thousands of people would install it and completely fail to get 
anything to work - it required that users understood all sorts of obscure 
concepts before even starting.

This problem is mostly solved - someone who just wants to stitch together a few 
photos taken on holiday has a good chance that this will just work.

Now the situation is that you need to understand lots of obscure concepts to do 
advanced things, but this is a much better problem to have.

One thing we see regularly is people trying to do advanced stuff entirely using 
the wizard in the preview window, these people need to be gently directed to 
advanced features. The bits we find annoying, such as when optimisation 
controls are hidden until enabled, are like this so Hugin doesn't scare users 
who are on this learning gradient.

Obviously there are lots of things that could be improved: there is a control 
on the Photos tab that is incredibly useful for changing settings on the 
Optimiser tab, and I also find that switching backwards and forwards between 
the two tabs slows me down. Combining the two would mean that the Optimiser tab 
is always visible, do we want this?


-- 
Bruno
-- 
Bruno

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Yuval Levy]

Hi Terry, and everybody else:

On 15-09-21 01:55 AM, Terry Duell wrote:
> [snip]
> 
>>
>> Yes, I had a few complaints about the redesign. None of my complaints
>> were given any response beyond the above, 'Your issue doesn't cause me
>> any
>> concern' and boiled down to 'you'll get used to it.'
> 
> That's a good point, but I think it is unlikely that the developer(s)
> would have ended up implementing a design that caused themselves concerns.

You mean it is unlikely that the developer would have ended up
implementing a design that caused him concerns, or more generally that
designs that caused concerns  would not have been implemented by the
developer?


> I am not one of the developers and wasn't involved in the new interface
> development so I can only guess about that. I have simply commented on
> how it affects me.

I was one of the developers until about five years ago life happened and
I moved on.  Now I am developing the tech team for a Toronto startup, I
am developing my practice of law, and in January I will be joining the
team that is developing an innovative stock exchange.  Development runs
in my blood.

There are different software development models, and what I observe with
Hugin these days compared with Hugin five years ago is that it has
evolved from being the work of a team to become the work of an
individual developer.

I am not judging the developer, just stating a fact.

It is a fact that without this one developer, Hugin would have staled.
The effort is humongous and the reward minimal.  The developer deserves
the credit for keeping Hugin alive and he has every right to make every
decision he has made.  From what I observe he has attracted a sufficient
number of followers to ensure continued distribution and he has
sacrificed countless hours.  Compare with RAWstudio, another piece of
software that has, over the same time, gone from a team effort to a lone
maintainer model.


> If there is a reasonable number of users who are dissatisfied with the
> new interface, hopefully they will express their views and prompt some
> more discussion.

There will always be some users expressing "dissatisfaction."  So what?
 Discussion is just noise.  Who is to decide what is a "reasonable
number?"  Who is to evaluate whether it is really a concern and not just
a case of "who moved my cheese?"  There are millions of users out there
that are still stuck with Windows XP and still whining about who moved
their cheese, while other users have used the choices available to them
and either moved on to Windows Vista/7/8/8.1/10 or MacOSX or Linux or
Android.

Tying it back to the development model, Hugin was and reamins Open
Source.  In an Open Source context, users always have more choices.  Or
stating it bluntly: "fork me!" That choice is more real than ever,
because of the tech tools that have matured (GitHub!) and because a team
will inevitably be able to put in more time collectively, than a single
developer.  Unless that time is wasted discussing, in which case the
single developer model is more efficient.

I am not judging the users in this thread.  They have expressed their
views rationally and respectfully and have shared with the developers
and other users at large how they deal with the changes.

How persuasive their views are depends not only on whether they are a
concern to them and to other users, even to the majority of users.  It
depends on the context and how much they can influence.  The best advice
I can give to them is to pull the source code (instructions are on the
wiki), go look at the user interface design (which if my memory does not
betray me is in /src/hugin1/hugin/xrc), read it, with the help of the
wxWidgets documentation that can be found online) and start moving
things around.  Their view will receive much more support if indeed they
make a small change (such as moving a button from one xrc file to
another or changing a widgets from a text to a checkbox) rather than
suggesting it.  Theoretically they may even try to hire a developer to
do that, with a bounty or something.

Until it stays just a discussion, it won't be helpful, because the
individual developer has a limited amount of time and no incentive to
spend it reading discussions.

my 2 cents.

Yuv


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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Marius Loots]

Hallo Everyone,

Monday, September 21, 2015, 4:59:45 AM, you wrote:
> about the new interface since it's introduction. I don't see any of the  
> points you raise as being issues that cause me any concern.
> I guess the hope of getting these nags rectified may increase if other  
> users express similar concerns/frustration.

Agree that specific points of concern would be very helpful.
Especially coming from a long time user that is new to the new
interface.

I have got used to using the new approach, and are probably better of
for it. There are some tasks, however, that was easier in the old
interface.

John> responses to the grumbling were fairly final sounding and even a
John> bit harsh. A look back at the responses when the new UI was

This was my feeling as well. At the moment I use a hybrid model, where
I fall back to the older version to get some things done.

Groetnis
 Marius  
 mailto:mlo...@medic.up.ac.za
-- 
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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Terry Duell]

Hello Gnome,

[snip]



Yes, I had a few complaints about the redesign. None of my complaints  
were given any response beyond the above, 'Your issue doesn't cause me  
any

concern' and boiled down to 'you'll get used to it.'


That's a good point, but I think it is unlikely that the developer(s)  
would have ended up implementing a design that caused themselves concerns.
I am not one of the developers and wasn't involved in the new interface  
development so I can only guess about that. I have simply commented on how  
it affects me.
If there is a reasonable number of users who are dissatisfied with the new  
interface, hopefully they will express their views and prompt some more  
discussion.



Cheers,
--
Regards,
Terry Duell

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Gnome Nomad]

On Sep 20, 2015 16:59, "John Muccigrosso"  wrote:
>
> On Sunday, September 20, 2015 at 1:48:48 AM UTC-4, Tduell wrote:
>>
>> I guess everyone has their preferences as to how things should look and

>> feel, but there haven't been a lot of grumbles (there have been some)
>> about the new interface since it's introduction. I don't see any of the

>> points you raise as being issues that cause me any concern.
>> I guess the hope of getting these nags rectified may increase if other
>> users express similar concerns/frustration.
>
>
> If I might, I'd suggest that, at least IMO, a lot of the responses to the
grumbling were fairly final sounding and even a bit harsh. A look back at
the responses when the new UI was being shown shows complaints about a
number of things.

Yes, I had a few complaints about the redesign. None of my complaints were
given any response beyond the above, 'Your issue doesn't cause me any
concern' and boiled down to 'you'll get used to it.'

While I've gotten 'used to it', that doesn't mean they're not issues. I
also find the way of configuring/setting custom exposure adjustments hard
to use. I sincerely hope the present UI is only something 'in progress' to
the real UI.

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Terry Duell]

Hello John,

On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 12:59:45 +1000, John Muccigrosso   
wrote:



On Sunday, September 20, 2015 at 1:48:48 AM UTC-4, Tduell wrote:


I guess everyone has their preferences as to how things should look and
feel, but there haven't been a lot of grumbles (there have been some)
about the new interface since it's introduction. I don't see any of the
points you raise as being issues that cause me any concern.
I guess the hope of getting these nags rectified may increase if other
users express similar concerns/frustration.



If I might, I'd suggest that, at least IMO, a lot of the responses to the
grumbling were fairly final sounding and even a bit harsh. A look back at
the responses when the new UI was being shown shows complaints about a
number of things.



Fair enough. I didn't look back on the record of proceedings, just relied  
on my memory.


Cheers,
--
Regards,
Terry Duell

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[John Muccigrosso]

On Sunday, September 20, 2015 at 1:48:48 AM UTC-4, Tduell wrote:
>
> I guess everyone has their preferences as to how things should look and   
> feel, but there haven't been a lot of grumbles (there have been some)   
> about the new interface since it's introduction. I don't see any of the   
> points you raise as being issues that cause me any concern. 
> I guess the hope of getting these nags rectified may increase if other   
> users express similar concerns/frustration. 
>

If I might, I'd suggest that, at least IMO, a lot of the responses to the 
grumbling were fairly final sounding and even a bit harsh. A look back at 
the responses when the new UI was being shown shows complaints about a 
number of things.

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Terry Duell]

Hello John,

On Fri, 18 Sep 2015 05:06:22 +1000, John Eklund  wrote:


After sticking to an old Hugin version for years ("if it ain't broken,
don't fix it"), I finally created a project which made the old cpfind  
crash (500 images gigapixel), so I reminded myself that new is not  
necessarily

bad, took the plunge and upgraded to Hugin 2015.0.0.

Wow what a change! And not just for the better. I used to be a Hugin  
power user. Now I feel like an amateur again. There are some frustrating  
nags.


[snip]


Any hopes of getting these nags rectified?



I initially wasn't going to respond as I didn't think I had very much that  
was helpful to say on this, but finally reneged as I didn't want to see  
the post go unanswered.
The new interface, introduced in Hugin-2013.0.0, is different, and as is  
often the case with new things they seem 'wrong', simply because of lack  
of familiarity.
I guess everyone has their preferences as to how things should look and  
feel, but there haven't been a lot of grumbles (there have been some)  
about the new interface since it's introduction. I don't see any of the  
points you raise as being issues that cause me any concern.
I guess the hope of getting these nags rectified may increase if other  
users express similar concerns/frustration.
I would suggest that building up more familiarity with the new interface  
may be the best approach.


Cheers,
--
Regards,
Terry Duell

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Bruno Postle]

On Sun 20-May-2012 at 01:54 -0700, Jeffrey Martin wrote:

On Friday, May 18, 2012 12:08:34 AM UTC+2, Bruno Postle wrote:


What is your objection to the exposure correction?  You don't want
any exposure correction, even from the EXIF data? or you don't like
the values that the photometric optimisation comes up with?


it sometimes gives bad results. e.g. one of the images for the sky come out
grey, and it would have been better without any optimization.


So some solutions could be:

Using celeste to prevent the photometric optimiser from sampling 
areas with clouds, presumably this would get better results.


Backing out and reverting to just EXIF Eev if the optimiser finds 
unlikely photometric values.  Similar to how the Assistant currently 
operates with geometric parameters.


A switch in the preferences to never do photometric optimisation, 
just always use EXIF Eev.  You might want this in huge projects 
anyway.


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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Serge Droz]

Hello,

two issues here:

1) in version (5806:49acc6d432c6)

I get an crash if I want do delete more than one image from a project.

I do the following: Open project -> Go to Photos Tab
select two or more images at the *end* of the list. Right click "remove
selected image(s)'.
> 
> hugin: /scratch/redhat/BUILD/hugin/src/hugin_base/panodata/Panorama.h:211: 
> virtual const HuginBase::SrcPanoImage& 
> HuginBase::Panorama::getImage(std::size_t) const: Assertion `nr < 
> state.images.size()' failed.
> Aborted (core dumped)



2) The latest (5808:d3a70fb21358) version does not compile:

> In file included from /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/dialog.h:154:0,
>  from /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/wx.h:61,
>  from /scratch/redhat/BUILD/hugin/src/hugin1/panoinc_WX.h:40,
>  from 
> /scratch/redhat/BUILD/hugin/src/hugin1/hugin/MainFrame.cpp:33:
> /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/dialog.h: In copy constructor 
> ‘wxDialog::wxDialog(const wxDialog&)’:
> /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/dialog.h:138:14: error: 
> ‘wxDialogBase::wxDialogBase(const wxDialogBase&)’ is private
> /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/gtk/dialog.h:32:7: error: within this context
> In file included from 
> /scratch/redhat/BUILD/hugin/src/hugin1/hugin/MainFrame.cpp:44:0:
> /scratch/redhat/BUILD/hugin/src/hugin1/hugin/PreferencesDialog.h: In copy 
> constructor ‘PreferencesDialog::PreferencesDialog(const PreferencesDialog&)’:
> /scratch/redhat/BUILD/hugin/src/hugin1/hugin/PreferencesDialog.h:38:7: note: 
> synthesized method ‘wxDialog::wxDialog(const wxDialog&)’ first required here 
> /scratch/redhat/BUILD/hugin/src/hugin1/hugin/MainFrame.cpp: In member 
> function ‘void MainFrame::OnShowPrefs(wxCommandEvent&)’:
> /scratch/redhat/BUILD/hugin/src/hugin1/hugin/MainFrame.cpp:1269:108: note: 
> synthesized method ‘PreferencesDialog::PreferencesDialog(const 
> PreferencesDialog&)’ first required here 
> make[2]: *** [src/hugin1/hugin/CMakeFiles/hugin.dir/MainFrame.cpp.o] Error 1
> make[2]: Leaving directory `/scratch/redhat/BUILD/hugin'
> make[1]: *** [src/hugin1/hugin/CMakeFiles/hugin.dir/all] Error 2
> make[1]: Leaving directory `/scratch/redhat/BUILD/hugin'
> make: *** [all] Error 2


Cheers
Serge

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Naked Robot]

On Friday, May 18, 2012 12:08:34 AM UTC+2, Bruno Postle wrote:
>
>
>
> What is your objection to the exposure correction?  You don't want 
> any exposure correction, even from the EXIF data? or you don't like 
> the values that the photometric optimisation comes up with?   
>


it sometimes gives bad results. e.g. one of the images for the sky come out 
grey, and it would have been better without any optimization.
 

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Harry van der Wolf]

And..

the menu doesn't function correctly anymore. In the menu I have from left
to right: Hugin, File, Edit, etc.
Below hugin was always the "Stop Hugin" option/action. It's still there but
it doesn't function anymore.
Suddenly below File there is also a "Stop" option/action. That one works.

The rest functions as it should.

Harry

2012/5/19 Harry van der Wolf 

> Just compiled the 5806:49acc6d432c6 version.
>
> I do like the combined assistant/preview mode. However, after cpfind has
> finished and the images are laid out in the preview, the view is always too
> small. I always have to zoom out, using the slider, to make the entire pano
> fit in the preview.
> Is this on purpose or a small glitch or an OSX glitch/feature?
>
> Harry
>



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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Harry van der Wolf]

Just compiled the 5806:49acc6d432c6 version.

I do like the combined assistant/preview mode. However, after cpfind has
finished and the images are laid out in the preview, the view is always too
small. I always have to zoom out, using the slider, to make the entire pano
fit in the preview.
Is this on purpose or a small glitch or an OSX glitch/feature?

Harry

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Yuv]

On Thursday, May 17, 2012 6:08:28 PM UTC-4, Bruno Postle wrote:
>
> On Wed 16-May-2012 at 18:47 -0700, Yuv wrote: 
> > 
> >Why should XYZ be considered more advanced than bracketing? 
>
> XYZ is still very unstable, most of the time it goes and does 
> something weird.  If you are careful you can get very good results, 
> but this does make it 'expert' functionality. 
>

Thank you for giving me the rationale for the three levels.  Based on your 
feedback above, I now understand why there are three (and not two) levels 
and I suggest that the three GUI level be called *simple* (S), *full* (F), 
*experimental* (E).  The stability or not of XYZ has nothing to do with the 
user's proficiency (beginner/expert/advanced) but with the software 
complexity (S vs F) and maturity (F vs E).  Eventually E features will 
mature and migrate to F (in most cases). 
 

>
> -- 
> Bruno 
>

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Harry van der Wolf]

2012/5/19 T. Modes 

> Hi Harry,
>
> On 19 Mai, 12:07, Harry van der Wolf  wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I do get a compilation error in the latest 5804 version when compiling
> > AssistantPanel.cpp
> >
> /Users/Shared/development/hugin_related/gui_overhaul/mac/../src/hugin1/hugin/AssistantPanel.cpp:420:
> > error: 'HUGIN_ASS_PREVIEW' was not declared in this scope
>
> I removed the now obsolete AssistantPanel.h/.cpp files from the CMake
> build. I forgot to remove the files (fixed in changeset 49acc6d432c6).
> You need probably to remove the files from your XCode project.
>
> Thomas
>
>
Right. Compiles fine now.

Harry

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Harry van der Wolf]

Hi,

I do get a compilation error in the latest 5804 version when compiling
AssistantPanel.cpp
/Users/Shared/development/hugin_related/gui_overhaul/mac/../src/hugin1/hugin/AssistantPanel.cpp:420:
error: 'HUGIN_ASS_PREVIEW' was not declared in this scope

The 5799 version compiled correctly.

Harry

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Drozilla]

>> > - In the Old GUI, I liked the drop down in the Optimizer menu, >
>> that gave the different stitching options. > This allows to play
>> around without understanding in detail > what's happening.
> 
> These still exist, but they are now on the Photos tab.  I agree that
> this is non-optimal, but also agree that they shouldn't be duplicated.
> 
Thanks for pointing this out. That's fine with me. But I would then
completely remove the Optimizer Tab. Right now it seems to pop on and
off in my installation.

Also, there should be a preselection in the GUI, so I can just click
"Calculate".

We can never come up with a GUI that suites everybody. For GUI's it's
important that they remain stable, so people can stay in their workflow.
So we should create a useful GUI and then stick to it.

I'm all in favour of simple/advanced: Normaly I i want to get things
done quickly, and they work. In some occasions a Pano is difficult to
assemble, and then I need all the extra tweaking.

Cheers
Serge

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Thomas Pryds]

2012/5/18 Monkey 

> I shoot on manual and trust my blender to correct any other exposure
> difference (which should be very little), and I think having to reset all
> parameters to 0 to turn it "off" (when in fact it's still *on*, just at 0
> strength, as it were) is pretty convoluted.
>
> A "no exposure correction" option seems very sensible to me - is this
> really something no-one else ever wanted? :S
>

I would imagine a number of checkbox switches, one for exposure correction,
one for stacks, one for HDR, etc., instead of the current checkboxes under
"Panorama Outputs" and "Remapped Images" in the Stitcher tab (current
layout; haven't seen the GUI overhaul) to be more intuitive. Just a thought.

Thomas

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Bruno Postle]

On Thu 17-May-2012 at 15:32 -0700, David Horman wrote:

I shoot on manual and trust my blender to correct any other exposure
difference (which should be very little), and I think having to reset all
parameters to 0 to turn it "off" (when in fact it's still *on*, just at 0
strength, as it were) is pretty convoluted.


You don't have to set the Eev to 0, you can set it to 1 or 1000, so 
long as it is the same for all photos.  Eev is a log scale so '0' 
doesn't really mean 'off'.


What would be wrong with setting them to the EXIF exposure values 
rather than calculating them through optimisation?


--
Bruno


On Thursday, May 17, 2012 11:08:34 PM UTC+1, Bruno Postle wrote:


What is your objection to the exposure correction?  You don't want
any exposure correction, even from the EXIF data? or you don't like
the values that the photometric optimisation comes up with?
Sometimes the photometric optimiser doesn't work so well, especially
if the geometric alignment hasn't found a good alignment first - but
this could be fixed with an extra rule in the assistant.


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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Monkey]

I shoot on manual and trust my blender to correct any other exposure 
difference (which should be very little), and I think having to reset all 
parameters to 0 to turn it "off" (when in fact it's still *on*, just at 0 
strength, as it were) is pretty convoluted.

A "no exposure correction" option seems very sensible to me - is this 
really something no-one else ever wanted? :S

David

On Thursday, May 17, 2012 11:08:34 PM UTC+1, Bruno Postle wrote:
>
> On Thu 17-May-2012 at 03:54 -0700, David Horman wrote: 
> > 
> >On the stitcher tab, which panorama output option should I tick if I want 
> a 
> >blended, *not* exposure corrected, low dynamic range panorama? 
>
> At the moment you need to reset all photometric parameters in the 
> Images tab, then stitch as normal. 
>
> What is your objection to the exposure correction?  You don't want 
> any exposure correction, even from the EXIF data? or you don't like 
> the values that the photometric optimisation comes up with?   
> Sometimes the photometric optimiser doesn't work so well, especially 
> if the geometric alignment hasn't found a good alignment first - but 
> this could be fixed with an extra rule in the assistant. 
>
> -- 
> Bruno 
>

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Bruno Postle]

On Thu 17-May-2012 at 03:54 -0700, David Horman wrote:


On the stitcher tab, which panorama output option should I tick if I want a
blended, *not* exposure corrected, low dynamic range panorama?


At the moment you need to reset all photometric parameters in the 
Images tab, then stitch as normal.


What is your objection to the exposure correction?  You don't want 
any exposure correction, even from the EXIF data? or you don't like 
the values that the photometric optimisation comes up with?  
Sometimes the photometric optimiser doesn't work so well, especially 
if the geometric alignment hasn't found a good alignment first - but 
this could be fixed with an extra rule in the assistant.


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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Bruno Postle]

On Wed 16-May-2012 at 18:47 -0700, Yuv wrote:


I agree with both Margaret and Jim.  The current terminology reflects an
inward view that has nothing to do with the level of proficiency of the
user -- neither in terms of computing nor in terms of photography.  It
draws an arbitrary line in the sand.  Why should XYZ be considered more
advanced than bracketing?


XYZ is still very unstable, most of the time it goes and does 
something weird.  If you are careful you can get very good results, 
but this does make it 'expert' functionality.


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RE: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Dale Beams]

XYZ is in a universal language, that of experts, of mathematicians.  It is the 
language of XYZ that allows us to situate ourselves in a spatial 3d world.




Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 18:47:18 -0700
From: goo...@levy.ch
To: hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul



On Tuesday, May 15, 2012 6:58:02 AM UTC-4, Jim Watters wrote:
  

  
  
On 2012-05-14 7:45 PM, Margaret Wong wrote:

  

  Personally I think of the Assistant as 'beginner', and
  anything to do with bracketing or XYZ mosaics as 'expert',
  i.e. things that should be well hidden unless you go looking
  for them.  Everything else in the GUI is relevant to tweaking
  stuff that happens behind the scenes of the Assistant.
  



  



  As a relative beginner I do bracketing and mosaics and did those 
nearly from day one.  It took me ages to realise that an XYZ mosaic
  wasn't a pano in  strict terms.


  



As an Expert in shooting and stitching panoramas I would prefer to
see a simple GUI unless I want to use some of advanced technique.



This was why I suggested the name Simple instead of Beginner. The
idea is to show as few controls that are necessary to do the most
common simple stitching.



If a user wants to use an advanced shooting technique, like not keep
the camera rotated around the NPP then they will need the Advanced
mode to stitch those images together.

I agree with both Margaret and Jim.  The current terminology reflects an inward 
view that has nothing to do with the level of proficiency of the user -- 
neither in terms of computing nor in terms of photography.  It draws an 
arbitrary line in the sand.  Why should XYZ be considered more advanced than 
bracketing?  only because it requires more parameters?  was added later?  Added 
technological complexity?

The current UI simplification is great from an expert perspective and I fully 
agree with Jim's view and support his terminology.  The 
beginner/advanced/expert terminology is misleading.  A real beginner is 
somebody who does not know the strict terms (to paraphrase Margaret) yet.  For 
a beginner it does not matter whether the stitch was achieved with 
ypr/XYZ/morph-to-fit (BTW, good stuff, Bruno!) and whether visual uniformity 
was achieved with bracketing/exposure correction/blending.  Without detracting 
from the current UI, which I find is a significant improvement, the terminology 
is not very helpful for beginners.

What would help beginners are assistants; e.g. code that detects bracketed 
shooting and asks the user if they want to switch those features of the UI on 
(and even offers some guidance, maybe even automation); or code that detects 
bad geometrical alignment which could be improved with XYZ and asks the user if 
they want to activate that feature of the UI.  The manual switch implemented 
now is good for experts.

I repeat: the new GUI is good progress, but don't raise expectations it can't 
meet by giving the impression that the simple UI is for beginners.  Even if the 
new GUI is an improvement for (almost) everybody, it adds more to experts than 
to beginners.

Yuv




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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Yuv]

On Tuesday, May 15, 2012 6:58:02 AM UTC-4, Jim Watters wrote:
>
>  On 2012-05-14 7:45 PM, Margaret Wong wrote: 
>
>  Personally I think of the Assistant as 'beginner', and anything to do 
>> with bracketing or XYZ mosaics as 'expert', i.e. things that should be well 
>> hidden unless you go looking for them.  Everything else in the GUI is 
>> relevant to tweaking stuff that happens behind the scenes of the Assistant. 
>>
>>   
> As a relative beginner I do bracketing and mosaics and did those nearly 
> from day one.  It took me ages to realise that an XYZ mosaic wasn't a pano 
> in  strict terms.
>  
>
> As an Expert in shooting and stitching panoramas I would prefer to see a 
> simple GUI unless I want to use some of advanced technique.
>
> This was why I suggested the name Simple instead of Beginner. The idea is 
> to show as few controls that are necessary to do the most common simple 
> stitching.
>
> If a user wants to use an advanced shooting technique, like not keep the 
> camera rotated around the NPP then they will need the Advanced mode to 
> stitch those images together.
>

I agree with both Margaret and Jim.  The current terminology reflects an 
inward view that has nothing to do with the level of proficiency of the 
user -- neither in terms of computing nor in terms of photography.  It 
draws an arbitrary line in the sand.  Why should XYZ be considered more 
advanced than bracketing?  only because it requires more parameters?  was 
added later?  Added technological complexity?

The current UI simplification is great from an expert perspective and I 
fully agree with Jim's view and support his terminology.  The 
beginner/advanced/expert terminology is misleading.  A real beginner is 
somebody who does not know the strict terms (to paraphrase Margaret) yet.  
For a beginner it does not matter whether the stitch was achieved with 
ypr/XYZ/morph-to-fit (BTW, good stuff, Bruno!) and whether visual 
uniformity was achieved with bracketing/exposure correction/blending.  
Without detracting from the current UI, which I find is a significant 
improvement, the terminology is not very helpful for beginners.

What would help beginners are assistants; e.g. code that detects bracketed 
shooting and asks the user if they want to switch those features of the UI 
on (and even offers some guidance, maybe even automation); or code that 
detects bad geometrical alignment which could be improved with XYZ and asks 
the user if they want to activate that feature of the UI.  The manual 
switch implemented now is good for experts.

I repeat: the new GUI is good progress, but don't raise expectations it 
can't meet by giving the impression that the simple UI is for beginners.  
Even if the new GUI is an improvement for (almost) everybody, it adds more 
to experts than to beginners.

Yuv

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Bruno Postle]

On Wed 16-May-2012 at 11:05 +0200, Frederic Da Vitoria wrote:


Sorry, I was not clear, I did not mean tabs down the side (I think 
you meant something like vertical :-/ ) I meant tabs within tabs. 
In the images tab, on the left a single column list of image 
names, and in the right part of the images tab add a sub-tab which 
would allow to choose the set of colums.


This is more-or-less how the current version of the gui_overhaul 
looks, though rather than a secondary set of tabs there are 'radio 
button widgets' for the various 'views' of columns.


--
Bruno

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Frederic Da Vitoria]

2012/5/16 Gnome Nomad 

> On 05/13/2012 09:04 PM, Frederic Da Vitoria wrote:
>
>> 2012/5/14 Gnome Nomad mailto:gnomeno...@gmail.com
>> >>
>>
>>On 05/10/2012 02:01 AM, kfj wrote:
>>
>>On 9 Mai, 21:25, Bruno Postle>>  wrote:
>>
>>In the existing GUI there is the Images tab and there is the
>>Camera
>>and Lens tab, which is actually another two tabs.  They each
>>show a
>>different set of image parameters, but some image parameters
>>are not
>>shown at all, the 'filename' appears in both tabs, but not
>>in the
>>Crop or Mask tab - This is all pretty random and shows the
>>incremental way it was built.
>>
>>
>>I often wondered if all of this couldn't be placed in one
>>window. How?
>>By displaying it in a fashion which is often used for tabular data
>>displays: You start out with a standard set of columns, and by
>>right-
>>clicking on the row with the column headers you get a context
>> window
>>allowing you to add/remove columns. Augment that with
>>left-clicking on
>>column headers to sort by this column, and you have a standard
>>interface many computer-literate people would feel instantly at
>> home
>>with. This would leave it to the user to choose what they want
>>to see/
>>can accomodate on their screen. I wouldn't even be surprised if the
>>appropriate widget type existed already in wxwidgets.
>>
>>
>>I think user would get overwhelmed with columns and sideways
>>scrolling ... prefer having separate tabs with focused functionality.
>>
>>
>> What about something in between: a column for image names, and at it's
>> right the tabs. Maybe the user could even create his own user tab where
>> he would put whatever column combination suits his needs. I don't know
>> if such a design is easily implementable with the design tools used for
>> Hugin, though.
>>
>
> Well, if it makes sense to have image names on a tab, putting them in a
> column would be fine. I like the tabs across the top, personally, not down
> the side. Of course, that could a user configurable option.
>

First, what I am thinking may be completely wrong, I am on Windows, so I
did not see the new GUI.

Sorry, I was not clear, I did not mean tabs down the side (I think you
meant something like vertical :-/ ) I meant tabs within tabs. In the images
tab, on the left a single column list of image names, and in the right part
of the images tab add a sub-tab which would allow to choose the set of
colums. Either Camera and Lens sub-tabs or Camera, Lens and User (the user
could decide his columns in this last tab) When the user selects one (or
several) image name(s), the row(s) would be select in all the sub-tabs.
This way, the user could select on scroll to any image and easily switch
the different column sets.

I hope I am making myself clearer. If I don't, I'll try to draw a mock-up.

OTOH, a tab within a tab may be not quite user-friendly. For example, which
tab set should the Ctrl+Tab shortcut control?

-- 
Frederic Da Vitoria
(davitof)

Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » -
http://www.april.org

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Gnome Nomad]

On 05/13/2012 09:04 PM, Frederic Da Vitoria wrote:

2012/5/14 Gnome Nomad mailto:gnomeno...@gmail.com>>

On 05/10/2012 02:01 AM, kfj wrote:

On 9 Mai, 21:25, Bruno Postlemailto:br...@postle.net>>  wrote:


In the existing GUI there is the Images tab and there is the
Camera
and Lens tab, which is actually another two tabs.  They each
show a
different set of image parameters, but some image parameters
are not
shown at all, the 'filename' appears in both tabs, but not
in the
Crop or Mask tab - This is all pretty random and shows the
incremental way it was built.


I often wondered if all of this couldn't be placed in one
window. How?
By displaying it in a fashion which is often used for tabular data
displays: You start out with a standard set of columns, and by
right-
clicking on the row with the column headers you get a context window
allowing you to add/remove columns. Augment that with
left-clicking on
column headers to sort by this column, and you have a standard
interface many computer-literate people would feel instantly at home
with. This would leave it to the user to choose what they want
to see/
can accomodate on their screen. I wouldn't even be surprised if the
appropriate widget type existed already in wxwidgets.


I think user would get overwhelmed with columns and sideways
scrolling ... prefer having separate tabs with focused functionality.


What about something in between: a column for image names, and at it's
right the tabs. Maybe the user could even create his own user tab where
he would put whatever column combination suits his needs. I don't know
if such a design is easily implementable with the design tools used for
Hugin, though.


Well, if it makes sense to have image names on a tab, putting them in a 
column would be fine. I like the tabs across the top, personally, not 
down the side. Of course, that could a user configurable option.


--
Gnome Nomad
gnomeno...@gmail.com
wandering the landscape of god
http://www.clanjones.org/david/
http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/
http://www.cafepress.com/otherend/

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Oskar Sander]

Great!

Has anyone built a windows test version of this that could be shared for
playing around with?

Cheers
/O

2012/5/15 Jim Watters 

>  On 2012-05-14 7:45 PM, Margaret Wong wrote:
>
>  Personally I think of the Assistant as 'beginner', and anything to do
>> with bracketing or XYZ mosaics as 'expert', i.e. things that should be well
>> hidden unless you go looking for them.  Everything else in the GUI is
>> relevant to tweaking stuff that happens behind the scenes of the Assistant.
>>
>>
> As a relative beginner (and I haven't been able to compile older versions
> of hugin on my system (Suse 11.4) so wait for someone  more experienced), I
> do bracketing and XYZ mosaics and did those nearly from day one of using
> hugin so I don't think that they should disappear to be dragged from the
> depths when required.  It took me ages to realise that an XYZ mosaic wasn't
> a pano in  strict terms.
>
> The transition from Beginner to Advance of Hugin will be much faster for
> someone that is already an Advanced user of computers. Most Linux users
> especially anyone that is compiling or attempting to compile applications
> on their system is an Advanced computer user.
>
> As an Expert in shooting and stitching panoramas I would prefer to see a
> simple GUI unless I want to use some of advanced technique.
>
> This was why I suggested the name Simple instead of Beginner. The idea is
> to show as few controls that are necessary to do the most common simple
> stitching.
>
> If a user wants to use an advanced shooting technique, like not keep the
> camera rotated around the NPP then they will need the Advanced mode to
> stitch those images together.
>
>
> --
/O

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Jim Watters]

On 2012-05-14 7:45 PM, Margaret Wong wrote:


Personally I think of the Assistant as 'beginner', and anything to do with
bracketing or XYZ mosaics as 'expert', i.e. things that should be well
hidden unless you go looking for them.  Everything else in the GUI is
relevant to tweaking stuff that happens behind the scenes of the Assistant.


As a relative beginner (and I haven't been able to compile older versions of 
hugin on my system (Suse 11.4) so wait for someone  more experienced), I do 
bracketing and XYZ mosaics and did those nearly from day one of using hugin so 
I don't think that they should disappear to be dragged from the depths when 
required.  It took me ages to realise that an XYZ mosaic wasn't a pano in  
strict terms.
The transition from Beginner to Advance of Hugin will be much faster for someone 
that is already an Advanced user of computers. Most Linux users especially 
anyone that is compiling or attempting to compile applications on their system 
is an Advanced computer user.


As an Expert in shooting and stitching panoramas I would prefer to see a simple 
GUI unless I want to use some of advanced technique.


This was why I suggested the name Simple instead of Beginner. The idea is to 
show as few controls that are necessary to do the most common simple stitching.


If a user wants to use an advanced shooting technique, like not keep the camera 
rotated around the NPP then they will need the Advanced mode to stitch those 
images together.



--
Jim Watters
http://photocreations.ca

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Margaret Wong]

Good morning

The remark below stands
>>
>> > - In the Old GUI, I liked the drop down in the Optimizer menu, > that
>> gave the different stitching options. > This allows to play around without
>> understanding in detail > what's happening.
>>
>
> These still exist, but they are now on the Photos tab.  I agree that this
> is non-optimal, but also agree that they shouldn't be duplicated.
>
> Maybe the Optimiser and Exposure tabs don't need to disappear in
> 'beginner' mode, or maybe these drop-down presets should be part of the
> 'advanced' mode.
>
> What do people see as necessary beginner/advanced/expert functionality?
>
> Personally I think of the Assistant as 'beginner', and anything to do with
> bracketing or XYZ mosaics as 'expert', i.e. things that should be well
> hidden unless you go looking for them.  Everything else in the GUI is
> relevant to tweaking stuff that happens behind the scenes of the Assistant.
>
>
As a relative beginner (and I haven't been able to compile older versions
of hugin on my system (Suse 11.4) so wait for someone  more experienced), I
do bracketing and XYZ mosaics and did those nearly from day one of using
hugin so I don't think that they should disappear to be dragged from the
depths when required.  It took me ages to realise that an XYZ mosaic wasn't
a pano in  strict terms.



-- 
kind regards

Margaret

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Bruno Postle]

On Sun 13-May-2012 at 21:37 +0200, Serge Droz wrote:


The remark below stands

> - In the Old GUI, I liked the drop down in the Optimizer menu, 
> that gave the different stitching options. 
> This allows to play around without understanding in detail 
> what's happening.


These still exist, but they are now on the Photos tab.  I agree that 
this is non-optimal, but also agree that they shouldn't be 
duplicated.


Maybe the Optimiser and Exposure tabs don't need to disappear in 
'beginner' mode, or maybe these drop-down presets should be part of 
the 'advanced' mode.


What do people see as necessary beginner/advanced/expert 
functionality?


Personally I think of the Assistant as 'beginner', and anything to 
do with bracketing or XYZ mosaics as 'expert', i.e. things that 
should be well hidden unless you go looking for them.  Everything 
else in the GUI is relevant to tweaking stuff that happens behind 
the scenes of the Assistant.


--
Bruno

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Frederic Da Vitoria]

2012/5/14 Gnome Nomad 

> On 05/10/2012 02:01 AM, kfj wrote:
>
>> On 9 Mai, 21:25, Bruno Postle  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> In the existing GUI there is the Images tab and there is the Camera
>>> and Lens tab, which is actually another two tabs.  They each show a
>>> different set of image parameters, but some image parameters are not
>>> shown at all, the 'filename' appears in both tabs, but not in the
>>> Crop or Mask tab - This is all pretty random and shows the
>>> incremental way it was built.
>>>
>>
>> I often wondered if all of this couldn't be placed in one window. How?
>> By displaying it in a fashion which is often used for tabular data
>> displays: You start out with a standard set of columns, and by right-
>> clicking on the row with the column headers you get a context window
>> allowing you to add/remove columns. Augment that with left-clicking on
>> column headers to sort by this column, and you have a standard
>> interface many computer-literate people would feel instantly at home
>> with. This would leave it to the user to choose what they want to see/
>> can accomodate on their screen. I wouldn't even be surprised if the
>> appropriate widget type existed already in wxwidgets.
>>
>
> I think user would get overwhelmed with columns and sideways scrolling ...
> prefer having separate tabs with focused functionality.


What about something in between: a column for image names, and at it's
right the tabs. Maybe the user could even create his own user tab where he
would put whatever column combination suits his needs. I don't know if such
a design is easily implementable with the design tools used for Hugin,
though.

-- 
Frederic Da Vitoria
(davitof)

Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » -
http://www.april.org

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Gnome Nomad]

On 05/10/2012 02:01 AM, kfj wrote:

On 9 Mai, 21:25, Bruno Postle  wrote:


In the existing GUI there is the Images tab and there is the Camera
and Lens tab, which is actually another two tabs.  They each show a
different set of image parameters, but some image parameters are not
shown at all, the 'filename' appears in both tabs, but not in the
Crop or Mask tab - This is all pretty random and shows the
incremental way it was built.


I often wondered if all of this couldn't be placed in one window. How?
By displaying it in a fashion which is often used for tabular data
displays: You start out with a standard set of columns, and by right-
clicking on the row with the column headers you get a context window
allowing you to add/remove columns. Augment that with left-clicking on
column headers to sort by this column, and you have a standard
interface many computer-literate people would feel instantly at home
with. This would leave it to the user to choose what they want to see/
can accomodate on their screen. I wouldn't even be surprised if the
appropriate widget type existed already in wxwidgets.


I think user would get overwhelmed with columns and sideways scrolling 
... prefer having separate tabs with focused functionality.


--
Gnome Nomad
gnomeno...@gmail.com
wandering the landscape of god
http://www.clanjones.org/david/
http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/
http://www.cafepress.com/otherend/

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Serge Droz]

There was a problem building, which I fixed. I did need the appended 
patch.



- I have two Optimizer tabs, only the on can be clicked.
- There is no Stitch tab, and I haven't figured out how to stitch
from the GUI


The remark below stands


- In the Old GUI, I liked the drop down in the Optimizer menu, that
gave the different stitching options.
  This allows to play around without understanding in detail what's
happening.


Best regards
Serge

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--- hugin.orig/src/hugin1/hugin/PanoPanel.cpp	2012-05-13 17:33:19.738737204 +0200
+++ hugin/src/hugin1/hugin/PanoPanel.cpp	2012-05-13 17:33:09.209590068 +0200
@@ -309,7 +309,7 @@
 // Determine if there are stacks in the pano.
 UIntSet activeImages = pano.getActiveImages();
 UIntSet images = getImagesinROI(pano,activeImages);
-vector hdrStacks = HuginBase::getHDRStacks(pano, images);
+vector hdrStacks = HuginBase::getHDRStacks(pano, images, opt );
 DEBUG_DEBUG(hdrStacks.size() << ": HDR stacks detected");
 const bool hasStacks = (hdrStacks.size() != activeImages.size());
 

Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Serge Droz]

Hello List,

I've tried out the latest (5786:fd5019496dd1) version of hugin with the 
new GUI. Here some feedback:



- I have two Optimizer tabs, only the on can be clicked.
- There is no Stitch tab, and I haven't figured out how to stitch from 
the GUI
- In the Old GUI, I liked the drop down in the Optimizer menu, that 
gave the different stitching options.
  This allows to play around without understanding in detail what's 
happening.



I've used a self-compiled version on a Fedora 16 x86-64 system. And I'm 
happy to try out further version. Thanks for the great work.


Serge

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Ian Tindale]

What about “Normal” and “Nerd”?

On 10 May 2012 17:30, Bart van Andel  wrote:

> What about "easy", "medium", "hard"?
> Now we still have to find a way to implement "fatality" ;-)
>
> Without kidding: I think "guided", "standard" and "expert mode" are pretty
> nice. Guided being assistant only, basically (except maybe from some basic
> viewpoint selection using the preview window).
>
> --
> Bart
>
>
> On Thursday, May 10, 2012 5:37:38 PM UTC+2, zarl wrote:
>>
>> Jim Watters schrieb am 10.05.12 17:29:
>> > On 2012-05-09 5:05 PM, Bruno Postle wrote:
>> >> On Wed 09-May-2012 at 09:12 -0700, Thomas Modes wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> In the fast preview I started to hide controls in the beginner mode:
>> >>> currently only the mosaic drag controls are hidden for beginner.
>> Which
>> >>> control do you think can be confusing for beginner? These can also be
>> >>> hidden in beginner mode.
>> >>
>> >> I'm in two minds about the beginner/advanced toggle, but I agree that
>> >> the mosaic mode should be invisible to new users. Looking at the
>> >> preview, maybe everything else is actually useful to beginners.
>> >
>> > I believe "simple is a better term than beginner".
>>
>> How about "standard" and "advanced" modes?
>>
>> Looking forward to see and try out a build with this interface overhaul.
>>
>> Carl
>>
>> > Beginner mode, is using wizards that do everything for you. The
>> > Assistant tab.
>> > Simple mode, is using a cleaner interface that hides all the advanced
>> > features that are hardly used.
>> > Advanced mode, is having every possible control available.
>> >
>> > We just need to define what a simple stitch is and what is not
>> necessary
>> > to accomplish it.
>> >
>>
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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Bart van Andel]

What about "easy", "medium", "hard"?
Now we still have to find a way to implement "fatality" ;-)

Without kidding: I think "guided", "standard" and "expert mode" are pretty 
nice. Guided being assistant only, basically (except maybe from some basic 
viewpoint selection using the preview window).

--
Bart


On Thursday, May 10, 2012 5:37:38 PM UTC+2, zarl wrote:
>
> Jim Watters schrieb am 10.05.12 17:29: 
> > On 2012-05-09 5:05 PM, Bruno Postle wrote: 
> >> On Wed 09-May-2012 at 09:12 -0700, Thomas Modes wrote: 
> >> 
> >>> In the fast preview I started to hide controls in the beginner mode: 
> >>> currently only the mosaic drag controls are hidden for beginner. Which 
> >>> control do you think can be confusing for beginner? These can also be 
> >>> hidden in beginner mode. 
> >> 
> >> I'm in two minds about the beginner/advanced toggle, but I agree that 
> >> the mosaic mode should be invisible to new users. Looking at the 
> >> preview, maybe everything else is actually useful to beginners. 
> > 
> > I believe "simple is a better term than beginner". 
>
> How about "standard" and "advanced" modes? 
>
> Looking forward to see and try out a build with this interface overhaul. 
>
> Carl 
>
> > Beginner mode, is using wizards that do everything for you. The 
> > Assistant tab. 
> > Simple mode, is using a cleaner interface that hides all the advanced 
> > features that are hardly used. 
> > Advanced mode, is having every possible control available. 
> > 
> > We just need to define what a simple stitch is and what is not necessary 
> > to accomplish it. 
> > 
>

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Carl von Einem]

Jim Watters schrieb am 10.05.12 17:29:

On 2012-05-09 5:05 PM, Bruno Postle wrote:

On Wed 09-May-2012 at 09:12 -0700, Thomas Modes wrote:


In the fast preview I started to hide controls in the beginner mode:
currently only the mosaic drag controls are hidden for beginner. Which
control do you think can be confusing for beginner? These can also be
hidden in beginner mode.


I'm in two minds about the beginner/advanced toggle, but I agree that
the mosaic mode should be invisible to new users. Looking at the
preview, maybe everything else is actually useful to beginners.


I believe "simple is a better term than beginner".


How about "standard" and "advanced" modes?

Looking forward to see and try out a build with this interface overhaul.

Carl


Beginner mode, is using wizards that do everything for you. The
Assistant tab.
Simple mode, is using a cleaner interface that hides all the advanced
features that are hardly used.
Advanced mode, is having every possible control available.

We just need to define what a simple stitch is and what is not necessary
to accomplish it.



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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Jim Watters]

On 2012-05-09 5:05 PM, Bruno Postle wrote:

On Wed 09-May-2012 at 09:12 -0700, Thomas Modes wrote:


In the fast preview I started to hide controls in the beginner mode:
currently only the mosaic drag controls are hidden for beginner. Which
control do you think can be confusing for beginner? These can also be
hidden in beginner mode.


I'm in two minds about the beginner/advanced toggle, but I agree that the 
mosaic mode should be invisible to new users.  Looking at the preview, maybe 
everything else is actually useful to beginners.


I believe "simple is a better term than beginner".

Beginner mode, is using wizards that do everything for you. The Assistant tab.
Simple mode, is using a cleaner interface that hides all the advanced features 
that are hardly used.

Advanced mode, is having every possible control available.

We just need to define what a simple stitch is and what is not necessary to 
accomplish it.


--
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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Frederic Da Vitoria]

2012/5/10 Harry van der Wolf 

>
> 2012/5/10 Gnome Nomad 
>
>>  In the Windows 2011.4.0 version, the fast preview crash still occurs,
>>> although much much less frequently. For me, the current frequency of
>>> crash is quite acceptable, but others may disagree. And it seems some
>>> others have it at much higher rates than me.
>>>
>>
>> Linux Hugin 2011.4.0.cf9be9344356 32-bit here running on boring old Intel
>> 855GM video hardware under Debian Sid crashes any time I try fast preview.
>> Have tried the various "fixes", even renaming the hidden ".hugin" file,
>> with no change.
>>
>> Same Hugin version works fine on Sid (64-bit) on my desktop PC with
>> NVidia graphics.
>>
>>
>
> Did anyone look into the OpenGL versions and requirements for this fast
> preview? Which OpenGL calls are used, and as of which versions are these
> function calls valid, and which versions of OpenGL are installed on the
> various OSes?
> Especially in combination with wxwindows and opengl.
> We did all kind of version checks when "we" as various testers/builders
> first worked on this fast preview window during GSOC 2009 when James Legg
> was working on this.
> Am I seeing ghosts and is the fast peview now OpenGL version independent,
> or could it be related to versions? And if so: Do our developers have
> up-to-date verions when compiling as they try to be up-to-date (at least I
> try) and have the users outdated versions?
> Even with the automatic software updates on the linuxes this could be an
> issue when running on older distributions which no longer update libraries
> but only do security/bug fixes.
>
> just my 2cents.
>

Sorry, this is getting off-topic. It seems my Windows Vista has an emulated
OpenGL 1.4 API but I use the standard NVIDIA driver which contains OpenGL
2.1.

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Harry van der Wolf]

2012/5/10 Gnome Nomad 

>  In the Windows 2011.4.0 version, the fast preview crash still occurs,
>> although much much less frequently. For me, the current frequency of
>> crash is quite acceptable, but others may disagree. And it seems some
>> others have it at much higher rates than me.
>>
>
> Linux Hugin 2011.4.0.cf9be9344356 32-bit here running on boring old Intel
> 855GM video hardware under Debian Sid crashes any time I try fast preview.
> Have tried the various "fixes", even renaming the hidden ".hugin" file,
> with no change.
>
> Same Hugin version works fine on Sid (64-bit) on my desktop PC with NVidia
> graphics.
>
>
>
>


Did anyone look into the OpenGL versions and requirements for this fast
preview? Which OpenGL calls are used, and as of which versions are these
function calls valid, and which versions of OpenGL are installed on the
various OSes?
Especially in combination with wxwindows and opengl.
We did all kind of version checks when "we" as various testers/builders
first worked on this fast preview window during GSOC 2009 when James Legg
was working on this.
Am I seeing ghosts and is the fast peview now OpenGL version independent,
or could it be related to versions? And if so: Do our developers have
up-to-date verions when compiling as they try to be up-to-date (at least I
try) and have the users outdated versions?
Even with the automatic software updates on the linuxes this could be an
issue when running on older distributions which no longer update libraries
but only do security/bug fixes.

just my 2cents.

Harry

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Gnome Nomad]

On 05/09/2012 06:26 AM, Frederic Da Vitoria wrote:

2012/5/9 T. Modes mailto:thomas.mo...@gmx.de>>

Concerning the fast preview: I thought also on this, but I'm not sure.
There is still the issue with the crashing preview. I fixed some time
ago a further issue, but until now no feedback if it is really fixed.
In the fast preview I started to hide controls in the beginner mode:
currently only the mosaic drag controls are hidden for beginner. Which
control do you think can be confusing for beginner? These can also be
hidden in beginner mode.


In the Windows 2011.4.0 version, the fast preview crash still occurs,
although much much less frequently. For me, the current frequency of
crash is quite acceptable, but others may disagree. And it seems some
others have it at much higher rates than me.


Linux Hugin 2011.4.0.cf9be9344356 32-bit here running on boring old 
Intel 855GM video hardware under Debian Sid crashes any time I try fast 
preview. Have tried the various "fixes", even renaming the hidden 
".hugin" file, with no change.


Same Hugin version works fine on Sid (64-bit) on my desktop PC with 
NVidia graphics.


--
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http://www.clanjones.org/david/
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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Bruno Postle]

On Wed 09-May-2012 at 09:12 -0700, Thomas Modes wrote:


I will fix this point when the above mentioned merge is done. It's on
my to do list.


One more bug: Good to see the g & t shear parameters in the GUI, but 
they are filled with the same values as the d & e parameters.


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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Bruno Postle]

On Wed 09-May-2012 at 09:12 -0700, Thomas Modes wrote:


Concerning the fast preview: I thought also on this, but I'm not sure.
There is still the issue with the crashing preview. I fixed some time
ago a further issue, but until now no feedback if it is really fixed.


I don't think there is any hurry, I'd like to hear what other people 
think.



In the fast preview I started to hide controls in the beginner mode:
currently only the mosaic drag controls are hidden for beginner. Which
control do you think can be confusing for beginner? These can also be
hidden in beginner mode.


I'm in two minds about the beginner/advanced toggle, but I agree 
that the mosaic mode should be invisible to new users.  Looking at 
the preview, maybe everything else is actually useful to beginners.


The Overview, Layout tab, and old preview are all supplementary 
alternative views of the entire project, but they exist at totally 
different levels.  This is very confusing.


Would the Overview be more stable if it lost the whole docking thing 
and became a 'normal' modeless window?  The Layout tab could get the 
same treatment, then if the old preview lost the duplicated widgets, 
there would be three optional floating windows with complementary 
but secondary functionality - Leaving a much less cluttered preview 
window.


I'm just sounding out ideas here, clearly there are things that 
could be better, but the solutions are not always obvious.


--
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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Bruno Postle]

On Tue 08-May-2012 at 19:11 -1000, Gnome Nomad wrote:


I do wonder all this effort to merge tabs together (I don't happen to 
agree with that, since some of the merges that have already been 
mentioned have apparently made it harder to use!)


In the existing GUI there is the Images tab and there is the Camera 
and Lens tab, which is actually another two tabs.  They each show a 
different set of image parameters, but some image parameters are not 
shown at all, the 'filename' appears in both tabs, but not in the 
Crop or Mask tab - This is all pretty random and shows the 
incremental way it was built.


These tabs are each in the form of a list/table, but if I select a 
photo or photos in the Images tab, then switch to the Camera and 
Lens tab, different photos are selected.  This makes it hard to add 
a feature like 'click on a photo in the preview and select it in the 
Images tab', or 'select two photos in the Camera and Lens tab and 
show the same two photos in the Control Points tab'.


when the logical UI element for working on a panorama already 
exists in Hugin: the Panorama Preview.


Yes, this is something often discussed, there is the potential to 
turn Hugin inside-out - Make the Preview window the main window, with 
the existing main window something you can close if you don't need 
it.  To do this the Assistant needs to move to the Preview.


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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Frederic Da Vitoria]

2012/5/9 T. Modes 

> Concerning the fast preview: I thought also on this, but I'm not sure.
> There is still the issue with the crashing preview. I fixed some time
> ago a further issue, but until now no feedback if it is really fixed.
> In the fast preview I started to hide controls in the beginner mode:
> currently only the mosaic drag controls are hidden for beginner. Which
> control do you think can be confusing for beginner? These can also be
> hidden in beginner mode.
>

In the Windows 2011.4.0 version, the fast preview crash still occurs,
although much much less frequently. For me, the current frequency of crash
is quite acceptable, but others may disagree. And it seems some others have
it at much higher rates than me.

-- 
Frederic Da Vitoria
(davitof)

Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » -
http://www.april.org

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Luís Henrique Camargo Quiroz]

Em 09/05/2012 05:18, Thomas Pryds escreveu:
>
>
> Den 08/05/2012 23.48 skrev
> > Hugin has lots of photography jargon, but this is inevitable, there
> has to be a better word than GUI.
>
> If a label, e.g. next to a checkbox, is needed, what about cutting
> down the acronym and let it say "user interface mode" or maybe just
> "interface mode"? Or even "user mode"?
>
> Is the word interface easily understandable in English by someone who
> doesn't have any technical knowledge about computer programs?
>
> I don't know this since English is not my first language, but in the
> Danish translation, GUI would probably just remain GUI (which would be
> confusing) since we, to my knowledge, don't have an acronym for that.
> So I also vote to avoid the word GUI.
>
> Thomas
>

I agree too: interface is better than GUI -- especially for beginners :)

I hope I could compile and test the overhauled GUI Hugin this weekend.

Luís Henrique


-- 
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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Thomas Pryds]

Den 08/05/2012 23.48 skrev
> Hugin has lots of photography jargon, but this is inevitable, there has
to be a better word than GUI.

If a label, e.g. next to a checkbox, is needed, what about cutting down the
acronym and let it say "user interface mode" or maybe just "interface
mode"? Or even "user mode"?

Is the word interface easily understandable in English by someone who
doesn't have any technical knowledge about computer programs?

I don't know this since English is not my first language, but in the Danish
translation, GUI would probably just remain GUI (which would be confusing)
since we, to my knowledge, don't have an acronym for that. So I also vote
to avoid the word GUI.

Thomas

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Harry van der Wolf]

2012/5/9 Gnome Nomad 

>
> GUI is a piece of programmer/UXD computer jargon that makes ordinary
> people go "Huh?" Plus using "GUI" would imply (to more knowledgable
> computer folker) that the alternative is a "TUI" (TEXT user interface), not
> just a simplified GUI.
>
> I vote for "Beginner Mode" and "Expert Mode". Makes sense in ZynAddSubFx
> and Yoshimi!
>
>
>
I agree, that's better.

And by the way: not only the photos tab needs this label, also the Stitcher
tab.

Harry

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Gnome Nomad]

On 05/08/2012 11:48 AM, Bruno Postle wrote:

On Tue 08-May-2012 at 12:52 -0700, Thomas Modes wrote:

And now after building I think the best label in the screen and in
the menu
is "Gui mode".


I think this is much better, but I'm concerned the acronym GUI can't
make much sense to most people - How does it translate into other
languages? Hugin has lots of photography jargon, but this is inevitable,
there has to be a better word than GUI.


GUI is a piece of programmer/UXD computer jargon that makes ordinary 
people go "Huh?" Plus using "GUI" would imply (to more knowledgable 
computer folker) that the alternative is a "TUI" (TEXT user interface), 
not just a simplified GUI.


I vote for "Beginner Mode" and "Expert Mode". Makes sense in ZynAddSubFx 
and Yoshimi!


--
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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Gnome Nomad]

On 05/08/2012 11:39 AM, Bruno Postle wrote:

On Tue 08-May-2012 at 12:52 -0700, Thomas Modes wrote:

On 8 Mai, 20:14, Harry van der Wolf  wrote:

thanks for the propose. I changed the label.

I changed the display wxChoice to wxRadioBox. So I hope it is more
obvious.


This is clearer, do you have any plans for what comes next? Can the Crop
and Mask tabs be merged with the Photos tab? Can the Assistant be moved
to the preview so the 'normal' Gui disappears altogether in 'beginner'
mode? There is a lot of rarely used stuff in the preview that must be
very confusing for 'beginners'.


Probably just me being weird, but I suspect a lot of beginners just 
follow the buttons on the Assistant tab: Load Images. Align. Create 
panorama.


Starting to sound like someone's applying the de facto Gnome environment 
design philosophy: "What functionality can we take away from the user 
next?" Or a relative of it: "What else can we hide from users now?"


I like the idea of the Beginner/Expert UI toggle. I use ZynAddSubFx and 
Yoshimi for music work. Both have a Beginner and an Expert UI mode. I 
think the present Hugin UI is great for an Expert UI. I think the 
Assistant tab could be turned into the Beginners UI.


I do wonder all this effort to merge tabs together (I don't happen to 
agree with that, since some of the merges that have already been 
mentioned have apparently made it harder to use!) when the logical UI 
element for working on a panorama already exists in Hugin: the Panorama 
Preview.


By the way, when I see a UI design in which the designer has to *explain 
in a text email* how to do something in the new UI, the design has some 
fundamental issues it needs to address.


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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Bruno Postle]

On Tue 08-May-2012 at 12:52 -0700, Thomas Modes wrote:

And now after building I think the best label in the screen and in the menu
is "Gui mode".


I think this is much better, but I'm concerned the acronym GUI can't 
make much sense to most people - How does it translate into other 
languages?  Hugin has lots of photography jargon, but this is 
inevitable, there has to be a better word than GUI.


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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Bruno Postle]

On Tue 08-May-2012 at 12:52 -0700, Thomas Modes wrote:

On 8 Mai, 20:14, Harry van der Wolf  wrote:

thanks for the propose. I changed the label.

I changed the display wxChoice to wxRadioBox. So I hope it is more
obvious.


This is clearer, do you have any plans for what comes next?  Can the 
Crop and Mask tabs be merged with the Photos tab?  Can the Assistant 
be moved to the preview so the 'normal' Gui disappears altogether in 
'beginner' mode?  There is a lot of rarely used stuff in the preview 
that must be very confusing for 'beginners'.


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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Harry van der Wolf]

And now after building I think the best label in the screen and in the menu
is "Gui mode".
In the screen it is immediately clear what is meant with it and it
automatically explains the the menu label as well.

(And for the insiders we create an extra label: "Gui tmodes")


(Away for the rest of the evening).
Harry

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Harry van der Wolf]

Currently building.

2012/5/8 T. Modes 

> > > First impression: well done, good job, it is an improvement.
> >
> > > the beginner/advanced/expert switch shouldn't be hidden in the Settings
> > >> menu
>
> I don't see a point on adding extra buttons for this to the toolbar.
> IMHO only function which are needed every day should be appear in the
> toolbar. But in the daily work I don't think that someone is change
> this level. A casual user should set the level to his needs and then
> leave it. (Only when special features are necessary for a particular
> project, then the level needs to be updated; but not every day.) So
> for me the menu item is sufficient.
>
>
I agree, but maybe the label should not be "Settings", but something like
"user mode" or maybe better: "gui mode". The term settings is too general
and seems more like a general settings option panel for the entire
application, and that's Preferences already.



> > I would prefer more clarity to the used mode as well but I don't like
> > fiddling with background colors. Some interfaces are really terrible
> color
> > wise and I prefer the grey backgrounds of many programs: It's the easiest
> > and most comfortable for the eye. (I'm not a big fan of "skinning" either
> > for that matter). Next to that: It might influence color schemes/themes
> > within all kind of OSes. That's not nice behavior.
> > My preference would be to have a bold text (label) in the top right (or
> top
> > left) saying: *"mode: Beginner"* or whatever mode you are working in.
> This
> > text could also appear in the button bar (so much for "button" bar) if
> you
> > want to keep the screen as clean as possible.
>
> I implemented this label in changeset 7f384d763667.
>
> Thomas
>
>
At least one happy user. ;)

Harry

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Yuv]

On Tuesday, May 8, 2012 6:57:23 AM UTC-4, Harry van der Wolf wrote:
>
>
> I would prefer more clarity to the used mode as well but
> I don't like fiddling with background colors. Some interfaces
> are really terrible color wise and I prefer the grey
> backgrounds of many programs: It's the easiest and
> most comfortable for the eye. (I'm not a big fan of
> "skinning" either for that matter). Next to that: It might
> influence color schemes/themes within all kind of OSes.
> That's not nice behavior.

Like you I am not a big fan of "skinning" and did not consider the 
influence on existing colour schemes. You are right, I take back the 
suggestion of changing colour background.


> My preference would be to have a bold text (label) in
> the top right (or top left) saying: "mode: Beginner" or
> whatever mode you are working in. This text could
> also appear in the button bar (so much for "button"
> bar) if you want to keep the screen as clean as possible.

I wanted to get back into the new GUI and try to imagine this, but too 
late: the nightly repo has been updated and this time the most recent 
change was in the default branch, so I am back to trunk (or stable 
release). I need to set up a development environment on this PC, but there 
are other things on my priorities list for the coming weeks. I also need to 
either change my subscription to email again, or get used to Google's new 
web based interface (my apology if it sends out HTML mail to subscribers, I 
just found that there is one button on the editor bar to remove formatting, 
but it is not good and mangles up quoting.

Yuv



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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Harry van der Wolf]

Hi

2012/5/8 Yuv 

> I took advantage of a "bug" in the Ubuntu PPA nightly builder (should
> build the latest trunk, instead it build the latest updated branch at the
> time of pulling, which ends up being quite random) to try the overhauled
> GUI.  I had a couple of images to defish, no fancy projects.
>
> First impression: well done, good job, it is an improvement.
>
>
> the beginner/advanced/expert switch shouldn't be hidden in the Settings
>> menu
>
>
> Agree.  Also: I have not understood the difference between advanced and
> expert.  At least it was not immediately apparent to me.  Are three level
> of usage necessary, or would two be enough?
>

I have the same question.

>
>
>> , maybe this could go in the button bar?
>
>
> It has to be very visible -- not just the switch, also the level of the
> current interface being used.  How about changing the background colour,
> e.g. using a light blue for the advanced and a light yellow for the expert,
> with the same luminance as the grey used for the beginner/default?
>
> Yuv
>
>
I would prefer more clarity to the used mode as well but I don't like
fiddling with background colors. Some interfaces are really terrible color
wise and I prefer the grey backgrounds of many programs: It's the easiest
and most comfortable for the eye. (I'm not a big fan of "skinning" either
for that matter). Next to that: It might influence color schemes/themes
within all kind of OSes. That's not nice behavior.
My preference would be to have a bold text (label) in the top right (or top
left) saying: *"mode: Beginner"* or whatever mode you are working in. This
text could also appear in the button bar (so much for "button" bar) if you
want to keep the screen as clean as possible.

Harry

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Yuv]

I took advantage of a "bug" in the Ubuntu PPA nightly builder (should build 
the latest trunk, instead it build the latest updated branch at the time of 
pulling, which ends up being quite random) to try the overhauled GUI.  I 
had a couple of images to defish, no fancy projects.

First impression: well done, good job, it is an improvement.

the beginner/advanced/expert switch shouldn't be hidden in the Settings menu


Agree.  Also: I have not understood the difference between advanced and 
expert.  At least it was not immediately apparent to me.  Are three level 
of usage necessary, or would two be enough?
 

> , maybe this could go in the button bar?


It has to be very visible -- not just the switch, also the level of the 
current interface being used.  How about changing the background colour, 
e.g. using a light blue for the advanced and a light yellow for the expert, 
with the same luminance as the grey used for the beginner/default?

Yuv

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Bruno Postle]

On Sun 06-May-2012 at 12:03 +0100, Bruno Postle wrote:


Thanks, the build now works for f16 and f17. I'll try running it later if
my children let me get anywhere near a computer.


Ok, fedora packages seem to be ok now, I'm putting them here if 
anyone wants to try:
 
http://repos.fedorapeople.org/repos/bpostle/panorama/


(this is also the new location for my repository of fedora snapshots 
of panorama related software)


I need to try some real projects with this new GUI, but I'm glad to 
see that output stacks and layers are finally visible in Hugin 
before stitching!


These are my first thoughts: the beginner/advanced/expert switch 
shouldn't be hidden in the Settings menu, maybe this could go in the 
button bar?


The 'Display' options in the Images tab for showing different 
columns in the table are quite fundamental, how can these be made 
more obvious?  In the old GUI there was a second level of tabs in 
the Camera and Lens tab, this could work for the new Images tab.


I think the Images tab can be renamed 'Photos'.

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Harry van der Wolf]

Hi Thomas,

2012/5/7 Tduell 

> Hullo Thomas,
>
> On May 6, 6:11 pm, "T. Modes"  wrote:
> [snip]
> >
> > > I see the same error on fedora f16, this is with gcc-4.6.3.
> >
> > Thats strange. I tested on f15, there it works. Now I installed f16,
> > and also here it works.
> >
> > Nevertheless I modified the code and committed (works here on Windows
> > and f16). I hope, it compiles now also for you.
>
> Builds OK here on Fedora 16 x86_64. It does seem to take a lot longer
> to build, but that may be a wrong impression, as I didn't time it.
> I am still finding my way around it, so will need to work with it a
> bit more before expressing a view on whether it is all OK.
> I guess having become familiar with the default gui I don't have too
> many problems with it.
> It will be interesting to see what new users think of it.
> Thanks for your efforts Thomas.
>
> Cheers,
> Terry
>
>
It now builds fine on OSX as well.

I will do further tests slightly later this week.
And need to do some minor changes to do to the calibrate_lens_gui and
ptbatchergui bundle w.r.t. lensfun changes before I can release a bundle.

Harry

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Stefan Peter]

Dear arclance

On 05.05.2012 21:58, arclance wrote:
> I tried building your gui_overhaul branch but it failed.
> 
> [ 82%] Building CXX object src/hugin1/hugin/CMakeFiles/hugin.dir/
> ImagesPanel.cpp.o
> In file included from /usr/include/c++/4.4/backward/hash_set:60,
>  from /usr/include/boost/pending/container_traits.hpp:
> 23,
>  from /usr/include/boost/graph/detail/
> adjacency_list.hpp:31,
>  from /usr/include/boost/graph/adjacency_list.hpp:324,
>  from /media/Linux_Data/Programs_CB10/Hugin/src/hugin/
> hugin_gui_overhaul/src/hugin_base/algorithms/optimizer/ImageGraph.h:
> 36,
>  from /media/Linux_Data/Programs_CB10/Hugin/src/hugin/
> hugin_gui_overhaul/src/hugin_base/algorithms/optimizer/PTOptimizer.h:
> 216,
>  from /media/Linux_Data/Programs_CB10/Hugin/src/hugin/
> hugin_gui_overhaul/src/hugin1/PT/PTOptimise.h:30,
>  from /media/Linux_Data/Programs_CB10/Hugin/src/hugin/
> hugin_gui_overhaul/src/hugin1/hugin/ImagesPanel.cpp:49:
> /usr/include/c++/4.4/backward/backward_warning.h:28:2: warning:
> #warning This file includes at least one deprecated or antiquated
> header which may be removed without further notice at a future date.
> Please use a non-deprecated interface with equivalent functionality
> instead. For a listing of replacement headers and interfaces, consult
> the file backward_warning.h. To disable this warning use -Wno-
> deprecated.
> Linking CXX shared module _hsi.so
> [ 82%] Built target _hsi
> [ 82%] Building CXX object src/hugin1/hugin/CMakeFiles/hugin.dir/
> CommandHistory.cpp.o
> [ 82%] Building CXX object src/hugin1/hugin/CMakeFiles/hugin.dir/
> PanoPanel.cpp.o
> /media/Linux_Data/Programs_CB10/Hugin/src/hugin/hugin_gui_overhaul/src/
> hugin1/hugin/ImagesPanel.cpp: In member function ‘virtual void
> ImagesPanel::panoramaChanged(PT::Panorama&)’:
> /media/Linux_Data/Programs_CB10/Hugin/src/hugin/hugin_gui_overhaul/src/
> hugin1/hugin/ImagesPanel.cpp:192: error: cast from ‘void*’ to ‘int’
> loses precision
> /media/Linux_Data/Programs_CB10/Hugin/src/hugin/hugin_gui_overhaul/src/
> hugin1/hugin/ImagesPanel.cpp:214: error: cast from ‘void*’ to ‘int’
> loses precision
> /media/Linux_Data/Programs_CB10/Hugin/src/hugin/hugin_gui_overhaul/src/
> hugin1/hugin/ImagesPanel.cpp: In member function ‘void
> ImagesPanel::OnGroupModeChanged(wxCommandEvent&)’:
> /media/Linux_Data/Programs_CB10/Hugin/src/hugin/hugin_gui_overhaul/src/
> hugin1/hugin/ImagesPanel.cpp:571: error: cast from ‘void*’ to ‘int’
> loses precision
> /media/Linux_Data/Programs_CB10/Hugin/src/hugin/hugin_gui_overhaul/src/
> hugin1/hugin/ImagesPanel.cpp: In member function ‘void
> ImagesPanel::OnOptimizerSwitchChanged(wxCommandEvent&)’:
> /media/Linux_Data/Programs_CB10/Hugin/src/hugin/hugin_gui_overhaul/src/
> hugin1/hugin/ImagesPanel.cpp:582: error: cast from ‘void*’ to ‘int’
> loses precision
> /media/Linux_Data/Programs_CB10/Hugin/src/hugin/hugin_gui_overhaul/src/
> hugin1/hugin/ImagesPanel.cpp: In member function ‘void
> ImagesPanel::OnPhotometricOptimizerSwitchChanged(wxCommandEvent&)’:
> /media/Linux_Data/Programs_CB10/Hugin/src/hugin/hugin_gui_overhaul/src/
> hugin1/hugin/ImagesPanel.cpp:593: error: cast from ‘void*’ to ‘int’
> loses precision
> [ 83%] Building CXX object src/hugin1/hugin/CMakeFiles/hugin.dir/
> NonaOptionsDialog.cpp.o
> [ 83%] Building CXX object src/hugin1/hugin/CMakeFiles/hugin.dir/
> HDRMergeOptionDialog.cpp.o
> make[2]: *** [src/hugin1/hugin/CMakeFiles/hugin.dir/ImagesPanel.cpp.o]
> Error 1
> make[2]: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs
> make[1]: *** [src/hugin1/hugin/CMakeFiles/hugin.dir/all] Error 2
> make: *** [all] Error 2
> 

We have the same error in the nightly build for all AMD64 builds.
Further information can be found at
https://launchpad.net/~hugin/+archive/nightly/+packages

This indicates that some changes in trunk are the cause for this error.

Regards

Stefan Peter

-- 
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need to be solved, using a tool that is not meant to solve it, without
understanding what is causing your problems and without knowing how
the tool actually works in the first place :)"
Jeffrey J. Kosowsky on the backuppc mailing list

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Bruno Postle]

On 6 May 2012 09:11, "T. Modes"  wrote:
> >
> > I see the same error on fedora f16, this is with gcc-4.6.3.
>
> Thats strange. I tested on f15, there it works. Now I installed f16,
> and also here it works.
>
> Nevertheless I modified the code and committed (works here on Windows
> and f16). I hope, it compiles now also for you.

Thanks, the build now works for f16 and f17. I'll try running it later if
my children let me get anywhere near a computer.

-- 
Bruno

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Bruno Postle]

On Sat 05-May-2012 at 12:58 -0700, arclance wrote:

I tried building your gui_overhaul branch but it failed.

[ 82%] Building CXX object src/hugin1/hugin/CMakeFiles/hugin.dir/
PanoPanel.cpp.o
/media/Linux_Data/Programs_CB10/Hugin/src/hugin/hugin_gui_overhaul/src/
hugin1/hugin/ImagesPanel.cpp: In member function ‘virtual void
ImagesPanel::panoramaChanged(PT::Panorama&)’:
/media/Linux_Data/Programs_CB10/Hugin/src/hugin/hugin_gui_overhaul/src/
hugin1/hugin/ImagesPanel.cpp:192: error: cast from ‘void*’ to ‘int’
loses precision


I see the same error on fedora f16, this is with gcc-4.6.3.

--
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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[Harry van der Wolf]

Hi Thomas,

2012/5/5 arclance 

> I tried building your gui_overhaul branch but it failed.
>
> [ 82%] Building CXX object src/hugin1/hugin/CMakeFiles/hugin.dir/
> ImagesPanel.cpp.o
> In file included from /usr/include/c++/4.4/backward/hash_set:60,
> from /usr/include/boost/pending/container_traits.hpp:
> 23,
> from /usr/include/boost/graph/detail/
> adjacency_list.hpp:31,
> from /usr/include/boost/graph/adjacency_list.hpp:324,
> from /media/Linux_Data/Programs_CB10/Hugin/src/hugin/
> hugin_gui_overhaul/src/hugin_base/algorithms/optimizer/ImageGraph.h:
> 36,
> from /media/Linux_Data/Programs_CB10/Hugin/src/hugin/
> hugin_gui_overhaul/src/hugin_base/algorithms/optimizer/PTOptimizer.h:
> 216,
> from /media/Linux_Data/Programs_CB10/Hugin/src/hugin/
> hugin_gui_overhaul/src/hugin1/PT/PTOptimise.h:30,
> from /media/Linux_Data/Programs_CB10/Hugin/src/hugin/
> hugin_gui_overhaul/src/hugin1/hugin/ImagesPanel.cpp:49:
> /usr/include/c++/4.4/backward/backward_warning.h:28:2: warning:
> #warning This file includes at least one deprecated or antiquated
> header which may be removed without further notice at a future date.
> Please use a non-deprecated interface with equivalent functionality
> instead. For a listing of replacement headers and interfaces, consult
> the file backward_warning.h. To disable this warning use -Wno-
> deprecated.
> Linking CXX shared module _hsi.so
> [ 82%] Built target _hsi
> [ 82%] Building CXX object src/hugin1/hugin/CMakeFiles/hugin.dir/
> CommandHistory.cpp.o
> [ 82%] Building CXX object src/hugin1/hugin/CMakeFiles/hugin.dir/
> PanoPanel.cpp.o
> /media/Linux_Data/Programs_CB10/Hugin/src/hugin/hugin_gui_overhaul/src/
> hugin1/hugin/ImagesPanel.cpp: In member function ‘virtual void
> ImagesPanel::panoramaChanged(PT::Panorama&)’:
> /media/Linux_Data/Programs_CB10/Hugin/src/hugin/hugin_gui_overhaul/src/
> hugin1/hugin/ImagesPanel.cpp:192: error: cast from ‘void*’ to ‘int’
> loses precision
> /media/Linux_Data/Programs_CB10/Hugin/src/hugin/hugin_gui_overhaul/src/
> hugin1/hugin/ImagesPanel.cpp:214: error: cast from ‘void*’ to ‘int’
> loses precision
> /media/Linux_Data/Programs_CB10/Hugin/src/hugin/hugin_gui_overhaul/src/
> hugin1/hugin/ImagesPanel.cpp: In member function ‘void
> ImagesPanel::OnGroupModeChanged(wxCommandEvent&)’:
> /media/Linux_Data/Programs_CB10/Hugin/src/hugin/hugin_gui_overhaul/src/
> hugin1/hugin/ImagesPanel.cpp:571: error: cast from ‘void*’ to ‘int’
> loses precision
> /media/Linux_Data/Programs_CB10/Hugin/src/hugin/hugin_gui_overhaul/src/
> hugin1/hugin/ImagesPanel.cpp: In member function ‘void
> ImagesPanel::OnOptimizerSwitchChanged(wxCommandEvent&)’:
> /media/Linux_Data/Programs_CB10/Hugin/src/hugin/hugin_gui_overhaul/src/
> hugin1/hugin/ImagesPanel.cpp:582: error: cast from ‘void*’ to ‘int’
> loses precision
> /media/Linux_Data/Programs_CB10/Hugin/src/hugin/hugin_gui_overhaul/src/
> hugin1/hugin/ImagesPanel.cpp: In member function ‘void
> ImagesPanel::OnPhotometricOptimizerSwitchChanged(wxCommandEvent&)’:
> /media/Linux_Data/Programs_CB10/Hugin/src/hugin/hugin_gui_overhaul/src/
> hugin1/hugin/ImagesPanel.cpp:593: error: cast from ‘void*’ to ‘int’
> loses precision
> [ 83%] Building CXX object src/hugin1/hugin/CMakeFiles/hugin.dir/
> NonaOptionsDialog.cpp.o
> [ 83%] Building CXX object src/hugin1/hugin/CMakeFiles/hugin.dir/
> HDRMergeOptionDialog.cpp.o
> make[2]: *** [src/hugin1/hugin/CMakeFiles/hugin.dir/ImagesPanel.cpp.o]
> Error 1
> make[2]: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs
> make[1]: *** [src/hugin1/hugin/CMakeFiles/hugin.dir/all] Error 2
> make: *** [all] Error 2
>
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I get another error message on OSX:
In file included from
/Users/Shared/development/hugin_related/ExternalPrograms/repository/include/wx-2.8/wx/mac/private.h:4,
 from
/Users/Shared/development/hugin_related/gui_overhaul/mac/../src/hugin1/hugin/treelistctrl.cpp:52:
/Users/Shared/development/hugin_related/ExternalPrograms/repository/include/wx-2.8/wx/mac/carbon/private.h:
In function 'Rect* wxMacGetPictureBounds(Picture**, Rect*)':
/Users/Shared/development/hugin_related/ExternalPrograms/repository/include/wx-2.8/wx/mac/carbon/private.h:1375:
warning: 'QDGetPictureBounds' is deprecated (declared at
/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.5.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Frameworks/QD.framework/Headers/QuickdrawAPI.h:1958)
/Users/Shared/development/hugin_related/ExternalPrograms/repository/include/wx-2.