Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
It depends on the data, and sometimes it should be off. Huegel, Thomas wrote: Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right?
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
Actually, the only correct answer is that t is up to individuals to place it wherever it suits them best. There is not a one size fits all answer. That is one reason for their being a PROFILE XEDIT. Regards, Richard Schuh From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stanley Rarick Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 8:28 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey It depends on the data, and sometimes it should be off. Huegel, Thomas wrote: Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right?
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
On the Left. /Tom Kern Huegel, Thomas wrote: Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right?
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
Why does it puzzle you? With it in the middle, you can see some lines either side of it. That can be handy. I see no real value to making it the top line. I like to have everything where my eye goes naturally, so I do want the curline at... actually NEAR... the top. My profile, and therefore historically THE profile (I installed VM here 26 years ago with what I like as the default) has CMDLINE TOP and CURLINE ON 8. This gives a bit of context, but still is comfortable for me. And OF COURSE the prefix is on RIGHT! For all the reasons already mentioned, so I won't repeat them. :-) But I am not bigoted against people who for whatever strange reasons put it on LEFT (unless they ask for my help - then I can't work till I 'fix' it). Another religious war: PF3! It was always a QUIT, and then some OtherSystem people started setting it to FILE. And then they ask for help, and I type stuff, but press PF3, and... AAArrrgghh! Did TSO set it to FILE just to cause VMers grief? Shimon
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
If you have to use it, that is. SET PREFIX OFF temporarily serves the same function. Regards, Richard Schuh -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kris Buelens Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 11:46 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey Not to forget: with PREF ON RIGHT, the cursor column displayed by the termulator corresponds to the place in the file... easier than looking at XEDIT's scale. 2008/2/21, Schuh, Richard [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The current, not command, line in the middle! Never fell in love with ISPF. Left because: 1. It is close to the text, which is sometimes very convenient, especially when using block commands. 2. Everything to the right is from the file. 3. Consistent with filelist and rdrlist. 4. It is a prefix, not a suffix, area. A prefix should precede, not follow. I read left to right, ergo, the prefix area should be on the left :-) 5. My termulator (What a typo! However, it is sort of catchy as a short way of saying terminal emulator.) is set to 3278-05. Having the prefix on the right is not only ugly when editing a file having short records, it can be downright difficult to associate the line numbers with the data. Regards, Richard Schuh -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony Thigpen Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 1:15 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey On the RIGHT of course, and the command and scale lines at the TOP. I don't know who thought the command line should be in the middle, but I guess the TOP vs BOTTOM vote was a tie. I really thing that the lefties are just lefties because they had previously used that lousy MVS editor which did it wrong. Tony Thigpen -Original Message - From: Huegel, Thomas Sent: 02/20/2008 10:05 AM Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right? -- Kris Buelens, IBM Belgium, VM customer support
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
Yes Shimon, Although I don't agree with most of your XEDIT settings, to each his own. I do agree that anyone caught setting PF3 to 'FILE' should be tarred and feathred and run out of town on a rail. -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Shimon Lebowitz Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 10:28 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey Why does it puzzle you? With it in the middle, you can see some lines either side of it. That can be handy. I see no real value to making it the top line. I like to have everything where my eye goes naturally, so I do want the curline at... actually NEAR... the top. My profile, and therefore historically THE profile (I installed VM here 26 years ago with what I like as the default) has CMDLINE TOP and CURLINE ON 8. This gives a bit of context, but still is comfortable for me. And OF COURSE the prefix is on RIGHT! For all the reasons already mentioned, so I won't repeat them. :-) But I am not bigoted against people who for whatever strange reasons put it on LEFT (unless they ask for my help - then I can't work till I 'fix' it). Another religious war: PF3! It was always a QUIT, and then some OtherSystem people started setting it to FILE. And then they ask for help, and I type stuff, but press PF3, and... AAArrrgghh! Did TSO set it to FILE just to cause VMers grief? Shimon
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
I can't agree more regarding setting PF3 to 'FILE'. Outa be a law. Thank you, Scott R Wandschneider Senior Systems Programmer Infocrossing, a WIPRO Company 11707 Miracle Hills Dr. Omaha, NE 68154 Office 402.963.8905 From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Huegel, Thomas Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 10:50 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey Yes Shimon, Although I don't agree with most of your XEDIT settings, to each his own. I do agree that anyone caught setting PF3 to 'FILE' should be tarred and feathred and run out of town on a rail. -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Shimon Lebowitz Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 10:28 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey Why does it puzzle you? With it in the middle, you can see some lines either side of it. That can be handy. I see no real value to making it the top line. I like to have everything where my eye goes naturally, so I do want the curline at... actually NEAR... the top. My profile, and therefore historically THE profile (I installed VM here 26 years ago with what I like as the default) has CMDLINE TOP and CURLINE ON 8. This gives a bit of context, but still is comfortable for me. And OF COURSE the prefix is on RIGHT! For all the reasons already mentioned, so I won't repeat them. :-) But I am not bigoted against people who for whatever strange reasons put it on LEFT (unless they ask for my help - then I can't work till I 'fix' it). Another religious war: PF3! It was always a QUIT, and then some OtherSystem people started setting it to FILE. And then they ask for help, and I type stuff, but press PF3, and... AAArrrgghh! Did TSO set it to FILE just to cause VMers grief? Shimon
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:28:18 +0200, Shimon Lebowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another religious war: PF3! It was always a QUIT, and then some OtherSystem people started setting it to FILE. And then they ask for help, and I type stuff, but press PF3, and... AAArrrgghh! Did TSO set it to FILE just to cause VMers grief? After years on VM one of the first things I did on TSO was set PF3 to CANCEL. Brian Nielsen
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
Not if it is for their own use. Someone's PROFILEs, including EXEC and XEDIT, are there for them to customize according to their own needs, preferences and tastes. Anyone who makes such a comment as yours needs to be tarred, feathered and run out of town on a rail. Have you never heard of using NOPROF when editing on a machine that is not yours? How about a simple Q PFK to see the settings? Any experienced support person who does not do that, or who cannot function with the system defaults as delivered by IBM, is way too set in his/her ways. It is not yours to dictate to the users. Regards, Richard Schuh From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Huegel, Thomas Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 8:50 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey Yes Shimon, I do agree that anyone caught setting PF3 to 'FILE' should be tarred and feathred and run out of town on a rail. -Original Message-
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
Then don't ask me for help on your machine. -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Schuh, Richard Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 11:36 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey Not if it is for their own use. Someone's PROFILEs, including EXEC and XEDIT, are there for them to customize according to their own needs, preferences and tastes. Anyone who makes such a comment as yours needs to be tarred, feathered and run out of town on a rail. Have you never heard of using NOPROF when editing on a machine that is not yours? How about a simple Q PFK to see the settings? Any experienced support person who does not do that, or who cannot function with the system defaults as delivered by IBM, is way too set in his/her ways. It is not yours to dictate to the users. Regards, Richard Schuh _ From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Huegel, Thomas Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 8:50 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey Yes Shimon, I do agree that anyone caught setting PF3 to 'FILE' should be tarred and feathred and run out of town on a rail. -Original Message-
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
Right is right. Huegel, Thomas wrote: Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right?
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
Any experienced support person who does not do that, or who cannot function with the system defaults as delivered by IBM, is way too set in his/her ways. It is not yours to dictate to the users. Technically you might be right, but I think any of us who have worked a certain way for a while (sometimes a great while) get to the point where some things are basically reflex. Being forced to actually THINK about each action would a) slow down our work terribly, b) probably cause us to make mistakes and cause grief. Today I was doing some work on a 2nd level bare-bones system, and I found myself hitting my head every time I tried to use something I am used to in a tailored system, which was not available. (Particularly local 'front-end' routines to assorted functions). Shimon
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
The term I've used to describe your observations is Unconsciously Competent. We tend to work as a reflex action similar to driving a car, shifting gears, working the pedals, etc... It is scary too. Ever daydreamed while driving?? Jim Hughes 603-271-5586 There's no sense in being precise when you don't even know what you're talking about. John von Neumann =-Original Message- =From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On =Behalf Of Shimon Lebowitz =Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 3:01 PM =To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU =Subject: Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey = = Any experienced = support person who does not do that, or who cannot = function with the system defaults as delivered by = IBM, is way too set in his/her ways. It is not yours = to dictate to the users. = =Technically you might be right, but I think any of us =who have worked a certain way for a while (sometimes a great =while) get to the point where some things are basically reflex. =Being forced to actually THINK about each action would a) slow =down our work terribly, b) probably cause us to make mistakes =and cause grief. = =Today I was doing some work on a 2nd level bare-bones system, =and I found myself hitting my head every time I tried to =use something I am used to in a tailored system, which was =not available. (Particularly local 'front-end' routines =to assorted functions). = =Shimon
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey: Enough already!
On Thursday, 02/21/2008 at 01:04 EST, Ray Mansell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Right is right. I was just wondering if we could put this thread to rest?? I don't have a convenient kill-file mechanism and I'm being overrun by my-way-is-better-than-your-way posts. Tom gets a Chuckie Award for asking the dang question in the first place. To summarize for those who may have skipped a few of these posts: - XEDIT is good unless you don't like it - ISPF is good unless you don't like it - ICCF is good unless you don't like it - Left is right. And vice versa. - Three rights make a U-turn - Personal choice is good unless you don't agree with the choice - EDGAR is not just a bear with a pole up his ... - CMS is better unless you like TSO better - Your idea is better than anyone else's - Systems programmers are stubborn - Everybody has more free time than I suspected :-) Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey: Enough already!
Just two small comments to Alan's list: To summarize for those who may have skipped a few of these posts: - XEDIT is good unless you don't like it - ISPF is good unless you don't like it - ICCF is good unless you don't like it - Left is right. And vice versa. - Three rights make a U-turn Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do. and TWO rights make a U-turn. - Personal choice is good unless you don't agree with the choice - EDGAR is not just a bear with a pole up his ... - CMS is better unless you like TSO better - Your idea is better than anyone else's - Systems programmers are stubborn - Everybody has more free time than I suspected I am sitting in the breakfast nook while my wife bakes Challa (bread for Shabbat) in the kitchen... VM emails with the smell of fresh bread is just great! Shimon
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey: Enough already!
Yeah. Three rights makes a left. Chuckie just created another thread :-) Regards, Richard Schuh -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shimon Lebowitz Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 1:34 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey: Enough already! Just two small comments to Alan's list: To summarize for those who may have skipped a few of these posts: - XEDIT is good unless you don't like it - ISPF is good unless you don't like it - ICCF is good unless you don't like it - Left is right. And vice versa. - Three rights make a U-turn Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do. and TWO rights make a U-turn. - Personal choice is good unless you don't agree with the choice - EDGAR is not just a bear with a pole up his ... - CMS is better unless you like TSO better - Your idea is better than anyone else's - Systems programmers are stubborn - Everybody has more free time than I suspected I am sitting in the breakfast nook while my wife bakes Challa (bread for Shabbat) in the kitchen... VM emails with the smell of fresh bread is just great! Shimon
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
I wouldn't think of it :-) As Howard Grams used to preach, Profiles are like underwear. You don't borrow someone else's underwear; don't borrow their PROFILE. When you are working on another's machine, you are in fact borrowing their profiles. Given that, it is up to you to either adapt or temporarily change it to your own liking. The onus is on you. And they are not sinners for disagreeing with you; they have done nothing wrong. (And I thought that I was getting old and settled in my ways.) Regards, Richard Schuh From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Huegel, Thomas Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 9:39 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey Then don't ask me for help on your machine. -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Schuh, Richard Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 11:36 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey Not if it is for their own use. Someone's PROFILEs, including EXEC and XEDIT, are there for them to customize according to their own needs, preferences and tastes. Anyone who makes such a comment as yours needs to be tarred, feathered and run out of town on a rail. Have you never heard of using NOPROF when editing on a machine that is not yours? How about a simple Q PFK to see the settings? Any experienced support person who does not do that, or who cannot function with the system defaults as delivered by IBM, is way too set in his/her ways. It is not yours to dictate to the users. Regards, Richard Schuh From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Huegel, Thomas Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 8:50 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey Yes Shimon, I do agree that anyone caught setting PF3 to 'FILE' should be tarred and feathred and run out of town on a rail. -Original Message-
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
That is why I place a special xedit macro on the 'y' disk that sets things like I am used to. When I go to someone else's session, I always issue my macro before I do anything major in xedit. Tony Thigpen -Original Message - From: Shimon Lebowitz Sent: 02/21/2008 03:01 PM Any experienced support person who does not do that, or who cannot function with the system defaults as delivered by IBM, is way too set in his/her ways. It is not yours to dictate to the users. Technically you might be right, but I think any of us who have worked a certain way for a while (sometimes a great while) get to the point where some things are basically reflex. Being forced to actually THINK about each action would a) slow down our work terribly, b) probably cause us to make mistakes and cause grief. Today I was doing some work on a 2nd level bare-bones system, and I found myself hitting my head every time I tried to use something I am used to in a tailored system, which was not available. (Particularly local 'front-end' routines to assorted functions). Shimon
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey: Enough already!
Two Wrights make an airplane. Brian Nielsen On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:49:19 -0500, David Boyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Two wrongs don't make a right But then there's the story about the two Chinese murderers that provided the proof that two Wongs can definitely make a wight Is it Friday yet? 8-) -- db
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey: Enough already!
Ladies, gentlemen, please... While I'm not quite at the For the love of God, Montressor! level of exhaustion on this topic, I beg you all: Please, let's allow this thread to die a peaceful, noble, dignified death. Your humble moderator and list janitor, -dan.
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
I set it on the right. I HATE it on the left! :-) David Wakser From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Huegel, Thomas Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 10:06 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Impromptu XEDIT Survey Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right?
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
On the right for me! That's the problem with XEDIT - it's so darn flexible it can be whatever you want!! Colin Allinson IMPORTANT - CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE - This e-mail is intended only for the use of the individual or entity shown above as addressees . It may contain information which is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure under applicable laws . If the reader of this transmission is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, printing, distribution, copying, disclosure or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by reply e-mail or using the address below and delete the message and any attachments from your system . Amadeus Data Processing GmbH Geschäftsführer: Eberhard Haag Sitz der Gesellschaft: Erding HR München 48 199 Berghamer Strasse 6 85435 Erding Germany
Impromptu XEDIT Survey
Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right?
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
Right! So when I hit newline it's in the body not the prefix area. On Feb 20, 2008 10:05 AM, Huegel, Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right? -- Mark Pace Mainline Information Systems
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
On the left, of course.:-) Huegel, Thomas wrote: Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right? -- DJ V/Soft z/VM and mainframe Linux expertise, training, consulting, and software development www.vsoft-software.com
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
Ohh goody ...a mid-week religious war!! Man the cannons! Mount the horses! Call up the reserves, this could be a long war!:-) My initial thought was: On the LEFT, naturally -- where God intended it to be! If it belonged on the right it would be called the line SUFFIX area!! :-) But the real answer is, of course, and to borrow Bill Bitner's favorite answer: It depends. Are you just writing text or a note? Then maybe on the right... or not at all (try entering from the XEDIT command line: POWER) Are you writing code with frequent line moves/deletes? Then maybe on the left. Do you have PComm's WONDERFUL Rule turned on? (It displays a thin full-screen horizontal and vertical line, or rule, where the cursor is located, making code line-up a piece of cake. My PComm keyboard is set to turn Rule off and on by pressing Alt and '+' -- the '+' above the '='). Then maybe you can be happy with the prefix area on either side (not concurrently, that would be weird and probably illegal in conservative States). Are you writing an XEDIT application for others to use? Then the answer might be: ask THEM where they like it, and permit then to change their mind with a simple toggle left/right PFkey press so that they don't have to call you for support when they inevitably change their minds. So... the real answer can probably be summed up as: place it where ever it makes YOU the most productive; and remember that you can change you mind any time. Mike Walter Hewitt Associates Any opinions expressed herein are mine alone and do not necessarily represent the opinions or policies of Hewitt Associates. Huegel, Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU 02/20/2008 09:05 AM Please respond to The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU To IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU cc Subject Impromptu XEDIT Survey Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right? The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. All messages sent to and from this e-mail address may be monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations to ensure compliance with our internal policies and to protect our business. Emails are not secure and cannot be guaranteed to be error free as they can be intercepted, amended, lost or destroyed, or contain viruses. You are deemed to have accepted these risks if you communicate with us by email.
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
Right or off entirely. Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right?
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
Use LEXX. (Though I wish someone would fix the parsing of the DATE function parameters in the RX$$ parser.) Peter -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Walter Sent: February 20, 2008 10:25 To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey Ohh goody ...a mid-week religious war!! Man the cannons! Mount the horses! Call up the reserves, this could be a long war!:-) My initial thought was: On the LEFT, naturally -- where God intended it to be! If it belonged on the right it would be called the line SUFFIX area!! :-) But the real answer is, of course, and to borrow Bill Bitner's favorite answer: It depends. Are you just writing text or a note? Then maybe on the right... or not at all (try entering from the XEDIT command line: POWER) Are you writing code with frequent line moves/deletes? Then maybe on the left. Do you have PComm's WONDERFUL Rule turned on? (It displays a thin full-screen horizontal and vertical line, or rule, where the cursor is located, making code line-up a piece of cake. My PComm keyboard is set to turn Rule off and on by pressing Alt and '+' -- the '+' above the '='). Then maybe you can be happy with the prefix area on either side (not concurrently, that would be weird and probably illegal in conservative States). Are you writing an XEDIT application for others to use? Then the answer might be: ask THEM where they like it, and permit then to change their mind with a simple toggle left/right PFkey press so that they don't have to call you for support when they inevitably change their minds. So... the real answer can probably be summed up as: place it where ever it makes YOU the most productive; and remember that you can change you mind any time. Mike Walter Hewitt Associates Any opinions expressed herein are mine alone and do not necessarily represent the opinions or policies of Hewitt Associates. Huegel, Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU 02/20/2008 09:05 AM Please respond to The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU To IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU cc Subject Impromptu XEDIT Survey Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right? The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. All messages sent to and from this e-mail address may be monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations to ensure compliance with our internal policies and to protect our business. Emails are not secure and cannot be guaranteed to be error free as they can be intercepted, amended, lost or destroyed, or contain viruses. You are deemed to have accepted these risks if you communicate with us by email. The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review retransmission dissemination or other use of or taking any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient or delegate is strictly prohibited. If you received this in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. The integrity and security of this message cannot be guaranteed on the Internet. The sender accepts no liability for the content of this e-mail or for the consequences of any actions taken on the basis of information provided. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The sender accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail. This disclaimer is property of the TTC and must not be altered or circumvented in any manner.
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
Left for English, right for Hebrew. -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Huegel, Thomas Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 10:06 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Impromptu XEDIT Survey Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right? This message w/attachments (message) may be privileged, confidential or proprietary, and if you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender, do not use or share it and delete it. Unless specifically indicated, this message is not an offer to sell or a solicitation of any investment products or other financial product or service, an official confirmation of any transaction, or an official statement of Merrill Lynch. Subject to applicable law, Merrill Lynch may monitor, review and retain e-communications (EC) traveling through its networks/systems. The laws of the country of each sender/recipient may impact the handling of EC, and EC may be archived, supervised and produced in countries other than the country in which you are located. This message cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free. This message is subject to terms available at the following link: http://www.ml.com/e-communications_terms/. By messaging with Merrill Lynch you consent to the foregoing.
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
*** * My initial thought was: On the LEFT, naturally -- where God intended it to * * be! If it belonged on the right it would be called the line SUFFIX area!! * * :-) * * * * THIS IS THE CORRECT ANSWER! * *** -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Walter Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 9:25 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey Ohh goody ...a mid-week religious war!! Man the cannons! Mount the horses! Call up the reserves, this could be a long war!:-) My initial thought was: On the LEFT, naturally -- where God intended it to be! If it belonged on the right it would be called the line SUFFIX area!! :-) But the real answer is, of course, and to borrow Bill Bitner's favorite answer: It depends. Are you just writing text or a note? Then maybe on the right... or not at all (try entering from the XEDIT command line: POWER) Are you writing code with frequent line moves/deletes? Then maybe on the left. Do you have PComm's WONDERFUL Rule turned on? (It displays a thin full-screen horizontal and vertical line, or rule, where the cursor is located, making code line-up a piece of cake. My PComm keyboard is set to turn Rule off and on by pressing Alt and '+' -- the '+' above the '='). Then maybe you can be happy with the prefix area on either side (not concurrently, that would be weird and probably illegal in conservative States). Are you writing an XEDIT application for others to use? Then the answer might be: ask THEM where they like it, and permit then to change their mind with a simple toggle left/right PFkey press so that they don't have to call you for support when they inevitably change their minds. So... the real answer can probably be summed up as: place it where ever it makes YOU the most productive; and remember that you can change you mind any time. Mike Walter Hewitt Associates Any opinions expressed herein are mine alone and do not necessarily represent the opinions or policies of Hewitt Associates. Huegel, Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU 02/20/2008 09:05 AM Please respond to The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU To IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU cc Subject Impromptu XEDIT Survey Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right? The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. All messages sent to and from this e-mail address may be monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations to ensure compliance with our internal policies and to protect our business. Emails are not secure and cannot be guaranteed to be error free as they can be intercepted, amended, lost or destroyed, or contain viruses. You are deemed to have accepted these risks if you communicate with us by email.
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
On Feb 20, 2008, at 9:05 AM, Huegel, Thomas wrote: Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right? I like it on the right. Adam
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
On the right, of course.:-) That way, both the prefix area and the next line are both a single keystroke away. From anywhere on a line, a CR takes you to the beginning of the next line, a TAB takes you to the prefix area. And then there's the human-factors aspect of wasting valuable screen real estate on the left margin where the human eye expects to find text, only to have to skip over a PDF/EDIT-style prefix area. Not to mention the presentation change when the prefix area is turned off; if it's on the right, the only difference is you might see more of each line. The text in column 1 stays in column 1. I thought this issue was settled back in the 80's ... ;-) -Chip- On 2/20/08 15:04 Dave Jones said: On the left, of course.:-) Huegel, Thomas wrote: Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right?
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
Some of you kids may not remember or you aren't old IBM'ers but this was all hashed out in about 1980 with the IBM internal availability of XEDIT. I don't know that anyone has the archives of the old IBMVM list. It would be interesting to see the arguments in it. EDGAR, the favorite (my opinion) full screen editor of the day had it on the right and it couldn't be moved. I had a hard time time getting used to it being on the left for the reason that Mark Pace gave, i.e. hitting newline puts me in the data area not in the prefix area. Jim Huegel, Thomas wrote: This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --_=_NextPart_001_01C873D1.B3283F1C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right? -- Jim Bohnsack Cornell University (607) 255-1760 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
Obviously, on the left. That¹s why everyone was so ecstatic when the extra ³=² was added to the command line prompt. -- Robert P. Nix Mayo Foundation.~. RO-OE-5-55 200 First Street SW/V\ 507-284-0844 Rochester, MN 55905 /( )\ -^^-^^ In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different. On 2/20/08 9:05 AM, Huegel, Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right?
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
On Wednesday, 02/20/2008 at 10:06 EST, Huegel, Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right? Are you INSANE?!? :-) It belongs, as you say on the left or on the right, of course. A True VM Bigot, believing in infinite diversity in infinite combination (see IBM Linux middleware requirements), will update his or her PROFILE XEDIT to *randomly* place the prefix on the left or right, except during snow season, when alternate-side prefix rules apply. Jeez you might just as well have asked Which is better? VHS or Beta? Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Chip Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That way, both the prefix area and the next line are both a single keystroke away. From anywhere on a line, a CR takes you to the beginning of the next line, a TAB takes you to the prefix area. You mean you actually over-type what is already there on the screen rather than orchestrate changes through the command line and prefix area?:-) You would not if you learned XEDIT on a 300 bps terminal... that's how you learn the order in which prefix commands, screen updates and command are processed. And when someone managed to put a FULLREAD ON in some of our shared macros, you'd have enough time to hit him over the head before your screen refreshed ;-) Rob
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
I like the prefix on the left but then I'm an old set in my ways ISPF Editor user (which is yet another 'religious' issue in the VM world). Alan - I prefer Blu-Ray over HD :-) Lionel B. Dyck, Consultant/Specialist Enterprise Platform Services, Mainframe Engineering KP-IT Enterprise Engineering 925-926-5332 (8-473-5332) | E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] AIM: lbdyck | Yahoo IM: lbdyck Kaiser Service Credo: Our cause is health. Our passion is service. We're here to make lives better. I never guess. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - Sir Arthur Conan Doyle NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you. From: Alan Altmark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Date: 02/20/2008 07:54 AM Subject: Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey On Wednesday, 02/20/2008 at 10:06 EST, Huegel, Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right? Are you INSANE?!? :-) It belongs, as you say on the left or on the right, of course. A True VM Bigot, believing in infinite diversity in infinite combination (see IBM Linux middleware requirements), will update his or her PROFILE XEDIT to *randomly* place the prefix on the left or right, except during snow season, when alternate-side prefix rules apply. Jeez you might just as well have asked Which is better? VHS or Beta? Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
Depends on what I am doing. If I am entering lots of data I want it on the right, otherwise on the left. Jim Dodds Systems Programmer Kentucky State University 400 East Main Street Frankfort, Ky 40601 502 597 6114 From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Huegel, Thomas Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 10:06 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Impromptu XEDIT Survey Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right?
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
CLEARLY the prefix belongs on the RIGHT. After all, VM is a right coast operating system, not some left coast monster like certain flavors of Unix! Seriously, I prefer prefix positioned on the right for reasons Mark Pace mentioned. On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 10:05 AM, Huegel, Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right? -- R;
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
On the left. For continuation, use SI. -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chip Davis Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 10:44 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey On the right, of course.:-) That way, both the prefix area and the next line are both a single keystroke away. From anywhere on a line, a CR takes you to the beginning of the next line, a TAB takes you to the prefix area. And then there's the human-factors aspect of wasting valuable screen real estate on the left margin where the human eye expects to find text, only to have to skip over a PDF/EDIT-style prefix area. Not to mention the presentation change when the prefix area is turned off; if it's on the right, the only difference is you might see more of each line. The text in column 1 stays in column 1. I thought this issue was settled back in the 80's ... ;-) -Chip- On 2/20/08 15:04 Dave Jones said: On the left, of course.:-) Huegel, Thomas wrote: Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right? This message w/attachments (message) may be privileged, confidential or proprietary, and if you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender, do not use or share it and delete it. Unless specifically indicated, this message is not an offer to sell or a solicitation of any investment products or other financial product or service, an official confirmation of any transaction, or an official statement of Merrill Lynch. Subject to applicable law, Merrill Lynch may monitor, review and retain e-communications (EC) traveling through its networks/systems. The laws of the country of each sender/recipient may impact the handling of EC, and EC may be archived, supervised and produced in countries other than the country in which you are located. This message cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free. This message is subject to terms available at the following link: http://www.ml.com/e-communications_terms/. By messaging with Merrill Lynch you consent to the foregoing.
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
Agreed! -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Nielsen Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 11:22 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey On the left, until you pry it from my cold, dead fingers. It's much easier to see which line it applies to when it's close to the text, which is generally near the beginning of the line. Also, I've always liked that newline takes me to the prefix area. Brian Nielsen On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:05:31 -0600, Huegel, Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right?
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
On the right so the emulator column indicator = data column. Huegel, Thomas wrote: Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right? -- Chris Langford, Cestrian Software: Consulting services for: VM, VSE, MVS, z/VM, z/OS, OS/2, P/3x0 etc.
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
On the left, until you pry it from my cold, dead fingers. It's much easier to see which line it applies to when it's close to the text, which is generally near the beginning of the line. Also, I've always liked that newline takes me to the prefix area. Brian Nielsen On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:05:31 -0600, Huegel, Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right?
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
That is a personal preference. It belongs wherever you like it. One of the really good things about XEDIT is that it is customizable. My preference is on the left. Regards, Richard Schuh From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Huegel, Thomas Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:06 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Impromptu XEDIT Survey Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right?
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
I used to have an Xedit profile called ICCF. It was on the right. - Dave H. Dodds, Jim [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU To IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU cc 02/20/2008 09:58 AM Subject Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey Please respond to The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Depends on what I am doing. If I am entering lots of data I want it on the right, otherwise on the left. Jim Dodds Systems Programmer Kentucky State University 400 East Main Street Frankfort, Ky 40601 502 597 6114 From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Huegel, Thomas Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 10:06 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Impromptu XEDIT Survey Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right?
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
I like to have it on the left. It makes it easier to see which blocks of data you would like to copy or move, for lines that do not extend all the way over to the right side of the screen. Basically whatever you are used to.
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
On Wed, 20 Feb 2008, Huegel, Thomas wrote: Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right? Isn't there enough hatred and intolerance in the world already without bringing this up? Isn't XEDIT big and powerful enough to include all of us with all of our various needs? Can't we all just get along? (The left. The LEFT. THE LEFT ... cough ... sorry, all better now.) Steve -- Steve Marak -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
Sir Kris The Guide runs with Prefix on Right by default (of course). Only when frequent deletes/moves I set it left. As I mentioned here already: when I saw XEDIT for the very first time, the demonstrating colleague entered and in XEDIT's command line. And indeed I shamelessly copied his idea, so SET SYN SET PREFIX ON LEFT SET SYN SET PREFIX ON RIGHT SET SYN ! SET PREFIX OFF make since ages part of my SETSYN XEDIT macro, called by my various profile macros for all XEDIT based tools. -- Kris Buelens, IBM Belgium, VM customer support
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
WHAT the he!! are youns talking about??? MA On Feb 20, 2008 11:31 AM, Schuh, Richard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That is a personal preference. It belongs wherever you like it. One of the really good things about XEDIT is that it is customizable. My preference is on the left. Regards, Richard Schuh -- *From:* The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Huegel, Thomas *Sent:* Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:06 AM *To:* IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU *Subject:* Impromptu XEDIT Survey Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right?
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
Kris, You do not have a macro for: SET SYN @ SET PREFIX ON CENTER? -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kris Buelens Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 12:50 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey Sir Kris The Guide runs with Prefix on Right by default (of course). Only when frequent deletes/moves I set it left. As I mentioned here already: when I saw XEDIT for the very first time, the demonstrating colleague entered and in XEDIT's command line. And indeed I shamelessly copied his idea, so SET SYN SET PREFIX ON LEFT SET SYN SET PREFIX ON RIGHT SET SYN ! SET PREFIX OFF make since ages part of my SETSYN XEDIT macro, called by my various profile macros for all XEDIT based tools. -- Kris Buelens, IBM Belgium, VM customer support
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
BETA Ed Martin 330-588-4723 ext 40441 -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alan Altmark Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 10:54 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey On Wednesday, 02/20/2008 at 10:06 EST, Huegel, Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right? Are you INSANE?!? :-) It belongs, as you say on the left or on the right, of course. A True VM Bigot, believing in infinite diversity in infinite combination (see IBM Linux middleware requirements), will update his or her PROFILE XEDIT to *randomly* place the prefix on the left or right, except during snow season, when alternate-side prefix rules apply. Jeez you might just as well have asked Which is better? VHS or Beta? Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
I like it on the right. I can concentrate easier that way. And the command line on top... :-) Ivica Brodaric
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
Gotta say I like it on the left, occasionally moving it to the right, and sometimes with NUM ON, which on the right might look like sequence numbers that belong on 80-column type cards, but I digress. Would a Chinese XEDIT have it top or bottom? And what about CMDLINE? Scale? all those wonderful moveable features we love so much. Why single out poor old prefix. Bob Bates Enterprise Hosting Services - Enterprise Virtualization - z/VM and z/Linux http://ehs.homestead.wellsfargo.com/Mainframe/zSS/zSE/zVM-zLinux/Pages/ default.aspx w. (469)892-6660 c. (214) 907-5071 This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based on this message or any information herein. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation. _ From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Huegel, Thomas Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 9:42 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey *** * My initial thought was: On the LEFT, naturally -- where God intended it to * * be! If it belonged on the right it would be called the line SUFFIX area!! * * :-) * * * * THIS IS THE CORRECT ANSWER! * *** -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Walter Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 9:25 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey Ohh goody ...a mid-week religious war!! Man the cannons! Mount the horses! Call up the reserves, this could be a long war!:-) My initial thought was: On the LEFT, naturally -- where God intended it to be! If it belonged on the right it would be called the line SUFFIX area!! :-) But the real answer is, of course, and to borrow Bill Bitner's favorite answer: It depends. Are you just writing text or a note? Then maybe on the right... or not at all (try entering from the XEDIT command line: POWER) Are you writing code with frequent line moves/deletes? Then maybe on the left. Do you have PComm's WONDERFUL Rule turned on? (It displays a thin full-screen horizontal and vertical line, or rule, where the cursor is located, making code line-up a piece of cake. My PComm keyboard is set to turn Rule off and on by pressing Alt and '+' -- the '+' above the '='). Then maybe you can be happy with the prefix area on either side (not concurrently, that would be weird and probably illegal in conservative States). Are you writing an XEDIT application for others to use? Then the answer might be: ask THEM where they like it, and permit then to change their mind with a simple toggle left/right PFkey press so that they don't have to call you for support when they inevitably change their minds. So... the real answer can probably be summed up as: place it where ever it makes YOU the most productive; and remember that you can change you mind any time. Mike Walter Hewitt Associates Any opinions expressed herein are mine alone and do not necessarily represent the opinions or policies of Hewitt Associates. Huegel, Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU 02/20/2008 09:05 AM Please respond to The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU To IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU cc Subject Impromptu XEDIT Survey Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right? The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. All messages sent to and from this e-mail address may be monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations to ensure compliance with our internal policies and to protect our business. Emails are not secure and cannot be guaranteed to be error free as they can be intercepted, amended, lost or destroyed, or contain viruses. You are deemed to have accepted these risks if you communicate with us by email.
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
Not only do I like the prefix area on the left, I set number on because I frequently work with blocks having more than 23 records. I give the first line a label, scroll down to where I can see the last line, and enter a command like .a banana :lastlinenumber. As long as we are discussing our religions, I: * locate the command line on the bottom and the current line in the middle, * set scale and shadow off, * set stay on, and * prefer a mod-5 terminal (but that was another recent religious war that does not need to be rehashed now). Regards, Richard Schuh From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ivica Brodaric Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 10:01 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey I like it on the right. I can concentrate easier that way. And the command line on top... :-) Ivica Brodaric
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
At 01:56 PM 2/20/2008, you wrote: I have the unsubstantiated general impression that people from blue states seemed to want it on the right, and people from red states seem to want it on the left. If that is correct, the universe shall come to an end soon. Where's the restaurant, and my blanket? What about the independents?
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
They want the prefix to be in the middle of course. Regards, Richard Schuh From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Duane Weaver Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 11:13 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey At 01:56 PM 2/20/2008, you wrote: I have the unsubstantiated general impression that people from blue states seemed to want it on the right, and people from red states seem to want it on the left. If that is correct, the universe shall come to an end soon. Where's the restaurant, and my blanket? What about the independents?
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
Left, of course. -Mark Vitale www.perfman.com From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Huegel, Thomas Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 10:06 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Impromptu XEDIT Survey Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right?
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
I have the unsubstantiated general impression that people from blue states seemed to want it on the right, and people from red states seem to want it on the left. If that is correct, the universe shall come to an end soon. Where's the restaurant, and my blanket? Mike Walter The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. All messages sent to and from this e-mail address may be monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations to ensure compliance with our internal policies and to protect our business. Emails are not secure and cannot be guaranteed to be error free as they can be intercepted, amended, lost or destroyed, or contain viruses. You are deemed to have accepted these risks if you communicate with us by email.
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
Cmdline belongs on the bottom, because we¹re not z/OS. nuf said. I generally run with the scale and current line in the center of the screen, and with num on, because sometimes cmdline commands are more convenient when you don¹t have to guess at the line numbers. The only problem with Num On is that sometimes repeated prefix commands... Don¹t. i.e. When the count happens to overlay the same digit in the line number. The gist of the whole thing is that Xedit allows you to have the environment you want to have, without a lot of effort in getting it that way. What isn¹t there, you can easily create and what is there... Is a whole lot. To those who were in on the creation of Xedit, and those who currently maintain it: Thanks for a job well done! I¹ve used a lot of editors on a lot of different platforms, and I continually find myself thinking ³Gee, I wish I had Xedit here² For all the editor bigots out there everywhere, I¹d like to submit the following cartoon, which we got a huge kick out of here. ³Real Programmers Use Butterflies²: http://xkcd.com/378/ Enjoy your day, and thank you for choosing Xedit. We hope you enjoyed your flight. -- Robert P. Nix Mayo Foundation.~. RO-OE-5-55 200 First Street SW/V\ 507-284-0844 Rochester, MN 55905 /( )\ -^^-^^ In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different. On 2/20/08 11:54 AM, Bob Bates [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gotta say I like it on the left, occasionally moving it to the right, and sometimes with NUM ON, which on the right might look like sequence numbers that belong on 80-column type cards, but I digress. Would a Chinese XEDIT have it top or bottom? And what about CMDLINE? Scale? all those wonderful moveable features we love so much. Why single out poor old prefix. Bob Bates Enterprise Hosting Services - Enterprise Virtualization - z/VM and z/Linux http://ehs.homestead.wellsfargo.com/Mainframe/zSS/zSE/zVM-zLinux/Pages/defaul t.aspx w. (469)892-6660 c. (214) 907-5071 ³This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based on this message or any information herein. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation. From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Huegel, Thomas Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 9:42 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey ** * * My initial thought was: On the LEFT, naturally -- where God intended it to * * be! If it belonged on the right it would be called the line SUFFIX area!! * * :-) * * * * THIS IS THE CORRECT ANSWER! * ** * -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Walter Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 9:25 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey Ohh goody ...a mid-week religious war!! Man the cannons! Mount the horses! Call up the reserves, this could be a long war!:-) My initial thought was: On the LEFT, naturally -- where God intended it to be! If it belonged on the right it would be called the line SUFFIX area!! :-) But the real answer is, of course, and to borrow Bill Bitner's favorite answer: It depends. Are you just writing text or a note? Then maybe on the right... or not at all (try entering from the XEDIT command line: POWER) Are you writing code with frequent line moves/deletes? Then maybe on the left. Do you have PComm's WONDERFUL Rule turned on? (It displays a thin full-screen horizontal and vertical line, or rule, where the cursor is located, making code line-up a piece of cake. My PComm keyboard is set to turn Rule off and on by pressing Alt and '+' -- the '+' above the '='). Then maybe you can be happy with the prefix area on either side (not concurrently, that would be weird and probably illegal in conservative States). Are you writing an XEDIT application for others to use? Then the answer might be: ask THEM where they like it, and permit then to change their mind with a simple toggle left/right PFkey press so that they don't have to call you for support when they inevitably change their minds. So... the real answer can probably be summed up as: place it where ever it makes YOU the most productive; and remember that you can change you mind any time. Mike Walter Hewitt Associates Any opinions expressed herein are mine alone
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
Let them eat cake. Oh, wait... Miguel said that the cake is a LIE!. Let them eat cupcakes? I had to google the cake is a lie to understand that. Miguel is a zNetGener, while I'm zAnachronism Mike Duane Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU 02/20/2008 01:12 PM Please respond to The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU To IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU cc Subject Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey At 01:56 PM 2/20/2008, you wrote: I have the unsubstantiated general impression that people from blue states seemed to want it on the right, and people from red states seem to want it on the left. If that is correct, the universe shall come to an end soon. Where's the restaurant, and my blanket? What about the independents? The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. All messages sent to and from this e-mail address may be monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations to ensure compliance with our internal policies and to protect our business. Emails are not secure and cannot be guaranteed to be error free as they can be intercepted, amended, lost or destroyed, or contain viruses. You are deemed to have accepted these risks if you communicate with us by email.
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
If that is correct, the universe shall come to an end soon. Where's the restaurant, and my blanket? Towel. The cool frood never loses his towel, not his blanket. De
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
An alternative (just updated to include PREFIX OFF with the appropriate VERIFY) to the command line approach: 'SET PF16 MACRO $TOGGLE PREFIX' Inside a home-grown $TOGGLE XEDIT Y2 (which contains lots of other XEDIT toggle-able settings): ... Prefix: 'COMMAND EXTRACT /PREFIX/LRECL/LSCREEN' Select When prefix.1='ON' prefix.2='LEFT' then Do 'COMMAND SET VERIFY 1' min(lrecl.1,lscreen.6-7) 'COMMAND SET PREFIX ON RIGHT' End When prefix.1='ON' prefix.2='RIGHT' then Do 'COMMAND SET VERIFY 1' lscreen.6-1 'COMMAND SET PREFIX OFF' End Otherwise Do 'COMMAND SET VERIFY 1' min(lrecl.1,lscreen.6-7) 'COMMAND SET PREFIX ON LEFT' End End /* Select */ Return ... At the press one PFkey and cycle through LEFT, RIGHT, and OFF. Mike Walter Hewitt Associates Any opinions expressed herein are mine alone and do not necessarily represent the opinions or policies of Hewitt Associates. Kris Buelens [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU 02/20/2008 11:49 AM Please respond to The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU To IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU cc Subject Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey Sir Kris The Guide runs with Prefix on Right by default (of course). Only when frequent deletes/moves I set it left. As I mentioned here already: when I saw XEDIT for the very first time, the demonstrating colleague entered and in XEDIT's command line. And indeed I shamelessly copied his idea, so SET SYN SET PREFIX ON LEFT SET SYN SET PREFIX ON RIGHT SET SYN ! SET PREFIX OFF make since ages part of my SETSYN XEDIT macro, called by my various profile macros for all XEDIT based tools. -- Kris Buelens, IBM Belgium, VM customer support The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. All messages sent to and from this e-mail address may be monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations to ensure compliance with our internal policies and to protect our business. Emails are not secure and cannot be guaranteed to be error free as they can be intercepted, amended, lost or destroyed, or contain viruses. You are deemed to have accepted these risks if you communicate with us by email.
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
On 2/20/08 15:57 Rob van der Heij said: On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Chip Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That way, both the prefix area and the next line are both a single keystroke away. From anywhere on a line, a CR takes you to the beginning of the next line, a TAB takes you to the prefix area. You mean you actually over-type what is already there on the screen rather than orchestrate changes through the command line and prefix area?:-) If that is what I want to do, yes. If I need a fresh line, it's only three keystrokes (tabaenter) one less than is necessary if the prefix is on the left (crupaenter). Add one more character to invoke SI. The main point is that with the prefix on the left there is no difference between a TAB and a CR; you're going to go to the prefix area whether you want to or not. With the prefix on the right, you have the choice of going to the prefix area with a TAB, or the beginning of the next data line with a CR. What good is having the choice if you don't take advantage of it? You would not if you learned XEDIT on a 300 bps terminal... that's how you learn the order in which prefix commands, screen updates and command are processed. And when someone managed to put a FULLREAD ON in some of our shared macros, you'd have enough time to hit him over the head before your screen refreshed ;-) Oh, but I would, Rob. And that's exactly where I learned the editor, only it was EDIT under VM/370 BSEPP. XEDIT came much later. But that's the beauty of the design of XEDIT: the user can choose the display and behavior of the tool that suits the task at hand. You can put the prefix in the _middle_ of the line if you want to ... A toast to Xavier de Lamberterie! -Chip-
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
Left unless I need it on the right. (happens) Ed Martin 330-588-4723 ext 40441
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
For me it must be the left side - always and forever! Thank you, Scott R Wandschneider Senior Systems Programmer Infocrossing Office 402.963.8905
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
Count me in on the left side. Right side...isn't that for ICCF? :-) - Original Message From: Huegel, Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 10:42:25 AM Subject: Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey *** * My initial thought was: On the LEFT, naturally -- where God intended it to * * be! If it belonged on the right it would be called the line SUFFIX area!! * * :-)* * * * THIS IS THE CORRECT ANSWER! * *** -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Walter Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 9:25 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey Ohh goody ...a mid-week religious war!! Man the cannons! Mount the horses! Call up the reserves, this could be a long war!:-) My initial thought was: On the LEFT, naturally -- where God intended it to be! If it belonged on the right it would be called the line SUFFIX area!! :-) But the real answer is, of course, and to borrow Bill Bitner's favorite answer: It depends. Are you just writing text or a note? Then maybe on the right... or not at all (try entering from the XEDIT command line: POWER) Are you writing code with frequent line moves/deletes? Then maybe on the left. Do you have PComm's WONDERFUL Rule turned on? (It displays a thin full-screen horizontal and vertical line, or rule, where the cursor is located, making code line-up a piece of cake. My PComm keyboard is set to turn Rule off and on by pressing Alt and '+' -- the '+' above the '='). Then maybe you can be happy with the prefix area on either side (not concurrently, that would be weird and probably illegal in conservative States). Are you writing an XEDIT application for others to use? Then the answer might be: ask THEM where they like it, and permit then to change their mind with a simple toggle left/right PFkey press so that they don't have to call you for support when they inevitably change their minds. So... the real answer can probably be summed up as: place it where ever it makes YOU the most productive; and remember that you can change you mind any time. Mike Walter Hewitt Associates Any opinions expressed herein are mine alone and do not necessarily represent the opinions or policies of Hewitt Associates. Huegel, Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU 02/20/2008 09:05 AM Please respond to The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU To IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU cc Subject Impromptu XEDIT Survey Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right? The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. All messages sent to and from this e-mail address may be monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations to ensure compliance with our internal policies and to protect our business. Emails are not secure and cannot be guaranteed to be error free as they can be intercepted, amended, lost or destroyed, or contain viruses. You are deemed to have accepted these risks if you communicate with us by email. Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
'SET CMDLINE TOP' 'SET PREFIX NULLS LEFT' 'SET NUMBER ON' 'SET SCALE ON 3' 'SET CURLINE ON 4' 'SET ENTER IGNORE COMMAND CURSOR HOME PRIORITY 30' 'SET MSGLINE ON -1 10 OVERLAY' 'SET FULLREAD ON' 'SET SPILL WORD' 'SET TOFEOF ON' 'SET STAY ON' 'SET WRAP ON' This electronic transmission and any documents accompanying this electronic transmission contain confidential information belonging to the sender. This information may be legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in reliance on or regarding the contents of this electronically transmitted information is strictly prohibited.
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
On the RIGHT of course, and the command and scale lines at the TOP. I don't know who thought the command line should be in the middle, but I guess the TOP vs BOTTOM vote was a tie. I really thing that the lefties are just lefties because they had previously used that lousy MVS editor which did it wrong. Tony Thigpen -Original Message - From: Huegel, Thomas Sent: 02/20/2008 10:05 AM Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right?
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
While my session, like a well-carved halibut fillet, shall have no scale (it's toggled by a PF key when needed), it's good to see others employing the convenience of SET WRAP ON. -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Levad Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 12:36 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey 'SET CMDLINE TOP' 'SET PREFIX NULLS LEFT' 'SET NUMBER ON' 'SET SCALE ON 3' 'SET CURLINE ON 4' 'SET ENTER IGNORE COMMAND CURSOR HOME PRIORITY 30' 'SET MSGLINE ON -1 10 OVERLAY' 'SET FULLREAD ON' 'SET SPILL WORD' 'SET TOFEOF ON' 'SET STAY ON' 'SET WRAP ON' This electronic transmission and any documents accompanying this electronic transmission contain confidential information belonging to the sender. This information may be legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in reliance on or regarding the contents of this electronically transmitted information is strictly prohibited.
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
And who decided that the curline should be in the middle by default?!?! That one puzzles me. -- Mark Pace Mainline Information Systems
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
Left. Mostly because I only had some MVS folks to help me with VM when I took over its support again in 1999 (after starting on BSEPP in 1979 and going through VM/XA in 1989). It was an attempt to help them work without their ISPF blanket/menus by giving them an editor that looked something like what they were used to. But I switch it around when I need to. Who worries about how many key strokes to insert a line when one of the PF keys is always ready to insert a line for me? And the restaurant is somewhere in London if I recall. But once you and the other guy get there, you really don't need the towel anymore. On 2/20/08, Tony Thigpen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On the RIGHT of course, and the command and scale lines at the TOP. I don't know who thought the command line should be in the middle, but I guess the TOP vs BOTTOM vote was a tie. I really thing that the lefties are just lefties because they had previously used that lousy MVS editor which did it wrong. Tony Thigpen -Original Message - From: Huegel, Thomas Sent: 02/20/2008 10:05 AM Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right?
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
I'll bet CURLINE in the middle is left over from the old EDIT days when you either used c//qefeqf/ to make changes or a 'c' to bring the line to the CMDLINE to make the change. I always felt it was in the middle so one could see code before and after the line being manipulated. I still leave it there. And use S and SU and other things. Old dog. New tricks. Sigh. Bob Bates Enterprise Hosting Services - Enterprise Virtualization - z/VM and z/Linux http://ehs.homestead.wellsfargo.com/Mainframe/zSS/zSE/zVM-zLinux/Pages/ default.aspx w. (469)892-6660 c. (214) 907-5071 This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based on this message or any information herein. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation. _ From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Pace Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 3:37 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey And who decided that the curline should be in the middle by default?!?! That one puzzles me. -- Mark Pace Mainline Information Systems
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
People, can we please let this thread die? XEDIT has only been around for 20+ years now, and you still want to argue about this stuff? :-o Really! Get a life!
Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey
The current, not command, line in the middle! Never fell in love with ISPF. Left because: 1. It is close to the text, which is sometimes very convenient, especially when using block commands. 2. Everything to the right is from the file. 3. Consistent with filelist and rdrlist. 4. It is a prefix, not a suffix, area. A prefix should precede, not follow. I read left to right, ergo, the prefix area should be on the left :-) 5. My termulator (What a typo! However, it is sort of catchy as a short way of saying terminal emulator.) is set to 3278-05. Having the prefix on the right is not only ugly when editing a file having short records, it can be downright difficult to associate the line numbers with the data. Regards, Richard Schuh -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony Thigpen Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 1:15 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Impromptu XEDIT Survey On the RIGHT of course, and the command and scale lines at the TOP. I don't know who thought the command line should be in the middle, but I guess the TOP vs BOTTOM vote was a tie. I really thing that the lefties are just lefties because they had previously used that lousy MVS editor which did it wrong. Tony Thigpen -Original Message - From: Huegel, Thomas Sent: 02/20/2008 10:05 AM Where does the prefix field belong? On the left? or On the right?
