Re: [ilugd] TCL Training in Delhi

[Nitin Mathur]

I am very much interested. Pls let me know the schedule too. Reply me at
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Best Regards
Nitin Mathur

- Original Message -
From: "Rajat Bhatia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 4:05 PM
Subject: [ilugd] TCL Training in Delhi


> Hi,
> We are looking to organize a TCL Training for engineers at our
> office. The training would be held at either Gurgaon or Noida. Anyone
> interested or having a pointer to a good source please contact me
> offline at my email address.
>
> Regards,
> Rajat
>
> General Business Information
>
>
>
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Re: [ilugd] raid problem

[Mani]

I think you need to create the /etc/raidtab file.  There is a sample raidtab
config file somewhere (I forgot the location), you can copy that as
/etc/raidtab and then edit the file

Mani
- Original Message - 
From: "Srinivas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 11:58 AM
Subject: [ilugd] raid problem


>
> Dear All,
>
>   At the time of installation I created two patations for raid in that
first
> raid partation is one harddisk and second raid partation is another
harddisk.
> After installation I am not getting that /etc/raidtab file. Is any one is
> having experience in raid plz help me. Curently I am using redhat 8.
>
>
> Thanx in Advance.
>
>
> Warm Regards,
> Vaasu
>
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[ilugd] Mail archive search

[Sandip Bhattacharya]

I wonder how many of you know the mail archive being kept of the list at 
 http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi since the day I 
set up the newsgroup.

The archive is not only threaded but also offer an search. IT allows you 
to import an existing mbox archive into it, which might be done if possible.

- Sandip

P.S. Still posting from the newsgroup :O)

--
Sandip Bhattacharyahttp://www.sandipb.net
sandip at puroga.com
Puroga Technologies Pvt. Ltd.
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Re: [ilugd] Enterprise Software Stack across operating Systems ?

[Tarun Dua]

On Tue, 2003-09-30 at 03:35, Tarun Upadhyay wrote:
> Alright, all sysadmins and PHBs.  
I am only an ignorant self-proclaimed sysadmin who is a PHB by the way.
> I would welcome any opinions on (yeah my asbestos suit is on):
> A) any services/features/products that I might have missed. (which
> estimatedely are used in at least 25% of enterprises)
> B) any information that you think is factually incorrect in the sheet.
The sheet is invisible to me as well. Can you post the link to it.
-Tarun Dua
http://www.tarundua.net



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[ilugd] Re: typography, page composition, etc

[Shuvam Misra]

> > I agree. But then that's not really a fault of the port 80 service; it's
> > a limitation of the browser, which feels users will be more than happy to
> > get a legible page, and aesthetics be hanged...
>
>
> the html structure is designed with no understanding of typography and
> typesetting.
>
> the browser merely parses, using the fonts and the font rendering engine
> in the accompanying OS. remove your 'essential' set of fonts from your
> OS and you'll see.

I think I have not been able to explain my idea clearly.

Imagine a new Mozilla which takes the HTML text, runs it through
HTML2TeX, compiles to DVI/PDF/whatever, and then shows it to you.
Imagine for a moment that it does this in real-time for each and every
page that you visit. Wouldn't you then get much better typeset pages?

I feel that this is a choice of the browser author. These authors have
decided that the basic X11 rendering engine is good enough. Not a fault
of the HTTP service.

Hope I'm being a little more clear?

Shuvam


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Re: [ilugd] Re: Openoffice 1.1 RCs and other publishing questions

[Shuvam Misra]

> dpi is *not* ppi.
> ppi is *not* lpi.
> lpi is *not* dpi.

Okay, please explain. By popular demand, if a population of two is large
enough for you. :)

I would have used dpi and ppi totally interchangeably.

Shuvam


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Re: [ilugd] Re: Openoffice 1.1 RCs and other publishing questions

[Shuvam Misra]

> http://directory.google.com/Top/Arts/Graphic_Design/Typography/?tc=1
> and http://www.microsoft.com/typography/users.htm

Will any Microsoft information repository on any generic (i.e. not
Microsoft proprietary) subject be any use? I'd almost expect their
typography section to be filled with how after years of original
research, Microsoft developed and gifted to humankind the (taran taran
taraaa) Times New Roman font. :) And so on...

Haven't checked, just asking.

Shuvam


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Re: [ilugd] Re: (fwd) [SECURITY] [DSA-392-1] New webfs packages fixbuffer overflows, file and directory exposure

[Sanjeev \"Ghane\" Gupta]

On Tuesday, September 30, 2003 11:24 AM [GMT+0800=SGT],
Raj Mathur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> "Sandip" == Sandip Bhattacharya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> writes:
>
> Sandip> Raj Mathur wrote:
> >> [Please upgrade if you use webfs on any platform -- Raju]
> >>
> >>
> >> CAN-2003-0832 - When virtual hosting is enabled, a remote
> >> client could specify ".." as the hostname in a request,
> >> allowing retrieval of directory listings or files above
> the >> document root.
>
> Sandip> This is so crazy!
>
> Hmm, why?

Because I would assume the author would check at least this code path.

--
Sanjeev, who last programmed 10 years ago in COBOL, and ran.


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[ilugd] Re: two questions

[Sandip Bhattacharya]

Raj Mathur wrote:

Seriously, Apt for RPM rocks.  Get it from freshrpms.net.  And I have
most of the latest packages from there for RH 8.0 if anyone wants them
on CD -- standard rules apply.
BTW, Have you seen this?

http://dag.wieers.com/home-made/apt/mega-merge.php

- Sandip

--
Sandip Bhattacharyahttp://www.sandipb.net
sandip at puroga.com
Puroga Technologies Pvt. Ltd.
http://www.puroga.com


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Re: [ilugd] TCL Training in Delhi

[Sunderjeet Singh]

Hi,

When are you planning to schedule it? Can you provide the details etc. 

Kindly reply at [EMAIL PROTECTED]

regards

Sunderjeet 

- Original Message - 
From: "Rajat Bhatia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 5:35 AM
Subject: [ilugd] TCL Training in Delhi


> Hi,
> We are looking to organize a TCL Training for engineers at our 
> office. The training would be held at either Gurgaon or Noida. Anyone 
> interested or having a pointer to a good source please contact me 
> offline at my email address.
> 
> Regards,
> Rajat
> 
> General Business Information
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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> 

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Re: [ilugd] Enterprise Software Stack across operating Systems ?

[Raj Mathur]

> "Tarun" == Tarun Upadhyay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Tarun> Alright, all sysadmins and PHBs.  I created (to the best of
Tarun> my knowledge) how software stack in enterprise (defined as
Tarun> companies with greater than 200 employees) space looks like
Tarun> between Microsoft and OSS products.

Tarun> Just for the fun sake, I also included the "leading"
Tarun> commercial UNIX offerings that are comparable.  I have made
Tarun> blue whatever product out of three I think is the leader
Tarun> (at least in the world of PHB).

Tarun> I would welcome any opinions on (yeah my asbestos suit is
Tarun> on): A) any services/features/products that I might have
Tarun> missed. (which estimatedely are used in at least 25% of
Tarun> enterprises) B) any information that you think is factually
Tarun> incorrect in the sheet.

...and the sheet is at?

-- 
Raj Mathur[EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://kandalaya.org/
   GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5  0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F
  All your domain are belong to us.
  It is the mind that moves

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[ilugd] Re: (fwd) [SECURITY] [DSA-392-1] New webfs packages fix buffer overflows, file and directory exposure

[Sandip Bhattacharya]

Raj Mathur wrote:

"Sandip" == Sandip Bhattacharya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:


Sandip> Raj Mathur wrote:
>> [Please upgrade if you use webfs on any platform -- Raju]
>> 
>> 
>> CAN-2003-0832 - When virtual hosting is enabled, a remote
>> client could specify ".." as the hostname in a request,
>> allowing retrieval of directory listings or files above the
>> document root.

Sandip> This is so crazy!

Hmm, why?

Because this appears to be one of the first obvious things to prevent 
while coding virtual hosting support in an HTTP server.

- Sandip

--
Sandip Bhattacharyahttp://www.sandipb.net
sandip at puroga.com
Puroga Technologies Pvt. Ltd.
http://www.puroga.com


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RE: [ilugd] IRQ probe

[Sudeep Kumar Sharma - (BHM Deputee)]

thanks again bhaskar
i am using lilo..as i find it easy to use, though grub never gave me
problem, but i give personal preference to lilo.

thanks a lot
sudeep

-Original Message-
From: Bhaskar Dutta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 8:48 PM
To: The Linux-Delhi mailing list
Subject: RE: [ilugd] IRQ probe




Hi,
  I presume you are using GRUB as your bootloader as
it is installed by default in Red Hat 8. Open the
/boot/grub/grub.conf file and modify the line similar
to [these lines are from my grub.conf file, yours will
be slightly different] --->

kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.18-14_custom_fs ro root=LABEL=/ 

to the following:

kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.18-14_custom_fs ro root=LABEL=/
hdc=noprobe hdd=noprobe 

(The whole params are in a single line, no line
breaks). That should do the work. In case you are
using LILO, edit the lilo.conf file and add the line
--->

append="hdc=noprobe hdc=noprobe"

to the beginning of the file. Don't forget to run
/sbin/lilo after the change to lilo.conf.

Regards,
Bhaskar


 --- "Sudeep Kumar Sharma - (BHM Deputee)"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> thanks bhaskar
> 
> no i am not using any kind of patches, and for ur
> information i am using RedHat 8.0.
> Using the latest kernel release 2.4.20. and i have
> no devices earlier intalled on my system.
> One more thing u have said to passw hdc=noprobe and
> hdd=noprobe, but will u plz tell me how to do that.
> i am a newbie to linux.
> 




=
---
Bhaskar Dutta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 GPG  = AA56 1EB5 D7E8 DD9C 298E  8F4D 375F D416 01D5 671C
---


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Re: [ilugd] Re: (fwd) [SECURITY] [DSA-392-1] New webfs packages fix buffer overflows, file and directory exposure

[Raj Mathur]

> "Sandip" == Sandip Bhattacharya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Sandip> Raj Mathur wrote:
>> [Please upgrade if you use webfs on any platform -- Raju]
>> 
>> 
>> CAN-2003-0832 - When virtual hosting is enabled, a remote
>> client could specify ".." as the hostname in a request,
>> allowing retrieval of directory listings or files above the
>> document root.

Sandip> This is so crazy!

Hmm, why?

-- 
Raj Mathur[EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://kandalaya.org/
   GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5  0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F
  All your domain are belong to us.
  It is the mind that moves

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Re: [ilugd] Re: two questions

[Raj Mathur]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

> "Ghane" == Sanjeev Gupta  writes:

Ghane> On Tuesday, September 30, 2003 5:51 AM [GMT+0800=SGT],
Ghane> Bhaskar Dutta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> Man, THAT was offending! I was shocked. Now I am scared to ping
>> the computer again lest I receive a plethora of abuses. I would
>> be glad if someone helps me resolve this matter.

Ghane> Hey, you know what we Debian guys say; just do an:

Ghane> apt-get update apt-get upgrade

Ghane> This solves _all_ known problems.

Debian?  Oh, you must mean that distribution that recently upgraded to
Linux kernel 1.2.0 in the unstable release!



[EMAIL PROTECTED] root]# cat /etc/redhat-release
Red Hat Linux release 8.0 (Psyche)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] root]# apt-get update;apt-get upgrade
...
Fetched 495kB in 31s (15.7kB/s)
...
0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 removed and 20 not upgraded.

Seriously, Apt for RPM rocks.  Get it from freshrpms.net.  And I have
most of the latest packages from there for RH 8.0 if anyone wants them
on CD -- standard rules apply.

- -- Raju
- -- 
Raj Mathur[EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://kandalaya.org/
   GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5  0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F
  All your domain are belong to us.
  It is the mind that moves
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.5.6 and Gnu Privacy Guard 

iD8DBQE/ePZjyWjQ78xo0X8RAt+FAJ9yoUzVE340uU+8yt4FOyhH32ZJmwCeK+wj
WdZRURFbi9XKnrLuFGOgJXk=
=Yl9S
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Re: [ilugd] auto-startup a script, apps, *after* runlevel5

[Raj Mathur]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

> "LL" == linuxlingam  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

LL> [snip]

LL> step 1: create a shell script that launches the required
LL> applications.

LL> step2: place this script in the /home/whoever/.kde/Autostart/
LL> directory.

LL> note: if the user is using kde. you have to find similar
LL> places for other environments.

In addition to placing the script in the home directories of existing
users, you may want to put it into /etc/skel.  Then it'll be
automatically copied to the home directories of any new users you
create.

I'm not very happy with the .kde business: who's going to go and
search out the various environments that users could be using?  A
desktop-independent way (like the xinitrc.d method) seems to be a
better idea, unless you have a totally controlled environment
(e.g. LTSP)

- -- Raju
- -- 
Raj Mathur[EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://kandalaya.org/
   GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5  0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F
  All your domain are belong to us.
  It is the mind that moves
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.5.6 and Gnu Privacy Guard 

iD8DBQE/ePTpyWjQ78xo0X8RAicTAJ9rMsY8D/K5t48UgIgQ2HhGWKFfnQCfZPGV
8J8rm3fK2Rsn0Ido8SMkrfg=
=MCJb
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[ilugd] Re: (fwd) [SECURITY] [DSA-392-1] New webfs packages fix buffer overflows, file and directory exposure

[Sandip Bhattacharya]

Raj Mathur wrote:

> [Please upgrade if you use webfs on any platform -- Raju]
>
>
 CAN-2003-0832 - When virtual hosting is enabled, a remote client
 could specify ".." as the hostname in a request, allowing retrieval
 of directory listings or files above the document root.
This is so crazy!

--
Sandip Bhattacharyahttp://www.sandipb.net
sandip at puroga.com
Puroga Technologies Pvt. Ltd.
http://www.puroga.com


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[ilugd] (fwd) [SECURITY] [DSA-392-1] New webfs packages fix buffer overflows, file and directory exposure

[Raj Mathur]

[Please upgrade if you use webfs on any platform -- Raju]

This is an RFC 1153 digest.
(1 message)
--

Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: Matt Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sender: Matt Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [SECURITY] [DSA-392-1] New webfs packages fix buffer overflows, file and 
directory exposure
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 11:55:36 -0400


-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

- --
Debian Security Advisory DSA 392-1 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.debian.org/security/ Matt Zimmerman
September 29th, 2003http://www.debian.org/security/faq
- --

Package: webfs
Vulnerability  : buffer overflows, file and directory exposure
Problem-Type   : remote
Debian-specific: no
CVE Ids: CAN-2003-0832 CAN-2003-0833

Jens Steube reported two vulnerabilities in webfs, a lightweight HTTP
server for static content.

 CAN-2003-0832 - When virtual hosting is enabled, a remote client
 could specify ".." as the hostname in a request, allowing retrieval
 of directory listings or files above the document root.

 CAN-2003-0833 - A long pathname could overflow a buffer allocated on
 the stack, allowing execution of arbitrary code.  In order to exploit
 this vulnerability, it would be necessary to be able to create
 directories on the server in a location which could be accessed by
 the web server.  In conjunction with CAN-2003-0832, this could be a
 world-writable directory such as /var/tmp.

For the current stable distribution (woody) these problems have been fixed
in version 1.17.2.

For the unstable distribution (sid) these problems have been fixed in
version 1.20.

We recommend that you update your webfs package.

Upgrade Instructions
- 

wget url
will fetch the file for you
dpkg -i file.deb
will install the referenced file.

If you are using the apt-get package manager, use the line for
sources.list as given below:

apt-get update
will update the internal database
apt-get upgrade
will install corrected packages

You may use an automated update by adding the resources from the
footer to the proper configuration.

Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 alias woody
- 

  Source archives:

http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/w/webfs/webfs_1.17.2.dsc
  Size/MD5 checksum:  472 153815a86bd259abeef914eb07f69a7e
http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/w/webfs/webfs_1.17.2.tar.gz
  Size/MD5 checksum:41433 6d7d436dd741af465ea8d56198d88e1c

  Alpha architecture:

http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/w/webfs/webfs_1.17.2_alpha.deb
  Size/MD5 checksum:37868 2962105934605ff0a4f844177569a42a

  ARM architecture:

http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/w/webfs/webfs_1.17.2_arm.deb
  Size/MD5 checksum:34320 b2300fded545dc60c0a4f7e3d4fb0dac

  Intel IA-32 architecture:

http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/w/webfs/webfs_1.17.2_i386.deb
  Size/MD5 checksum:32674 af563da11508475b4bd231db2776be11

  Intel IA-64 architecture:

http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/w/webfs/webfs_1.17.2_ia64.deb
  Size/MD5 checksum:45916 7b7c7ff929c301125d7eafde39bfcdad

  HP Precision architecture:

http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/w/webfs/webfs_1.17.2_hppa.deb
  Size/MD5 checksum:35932 85d63d5c1cb13eda0ded799ab419e3ad

  Motorola 680x0 architecture:

http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/w/webfs/webfs_1.17.2_m68k.deb
  Size/MD5 checksum:31294 b141772b9a8c47354b00d4ac1f35a1db

  Big endian MIPS architecture:

http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/w/webfs/webfs_1.17.2_mips.deb
  Size/MD5 checksum:34952 09b5b96448f4ca390c881fa9bb48aa52

  Little endian MIPS architecture:

http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/w/webfs/webfs_1.17.2_mipsel.deb
  Size/MD5 checksum:34920 f4f8503528246a1f0b5d976056b622e9

  PowerPC architecture:

http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/w/webfs/webfs_1.17.2_powerpc.deb
  Size/MD5 checksum:33562 e112bf5dcf91ef2379f077cd6fd2ecb2

  IBM S/390 architecture:

http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/w/webfs/webfs_1.17.2_s390.deb
  Size/MD5 checksum:34670 24f10a95258a47475b752f12516e0515

  Sun Sparc architecture:

http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/w/webfs/webfs_1.17.2_sparc.deb
  Size/MD5 checksum:36632 868ccfc05924a7cb53b3c16b666cb9af

  These files will probably be moved into the stable distribution on
  its next revision.

- -
For apt-get: deb http://security.debian.org/ stable/updates main
For dpkg-ftp: ftp://securi

Re: [ilugd] Re: two questions

[Sanjeev \"Ghane\" Gupta]

On Tuesday, September 30, 2003 5:51 AM [GMT+0800=SGT],
Bhaskar Dutta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  Man, THAT was offending! I was shocked. Now I am
> scared to ping the computer again lest I receive a
> plethora of abuses. I would be glad if someone helps
> me resolve this matter.

Hey, you know what we Debian guys say; just do an:

apt-get update
apt-get upgrade

This solves _all_ known problems.

--
Sanjeev


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[ilugd] auto-startup a script, apps, *after* runlevel5

[LinuxLingam]

dear all,

been waiting for some spare time on my hands to try out all the helpful
posts sent some of you past week, to solve the above problem stated in
the subject line.

[have had a rough week: ethernet hub short-circuited and died, loads of
other screwups on my machines and with gnulinux, while facing increased
workload]

anyways, the good news is that i spent some time calmly reading man
pages of several commands.

here's how i've got some X applications (xcalc, firestarter, etc) to
boot after *any* user logs-in through xdm, despite *whatever*
environment is chosen: kde, gnome, etc etc.

step 1: firestarter can only be run by the root. so i 'man visudo' and
added the relevant users to sudo firestarter without root password.

step 2: 'xhost +localhost' is required as a prerequisite to let
firestarter launch without displaying X display errors.

step 3: created a small shell script that does the above two steps for
me.

step 4: dump this shell script, in /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc.d/

note: make sure the actual command to start your applications, such as
xcalc, firestarter, have the '&' appended to them, so they run as
background processes. not doing this has an intersting effect: i can
make a sophisticated pc log-in a user into runlevel5 and only run a dumb
calculator! not even the desktop, taskbar, menu, etc appears. a great
way to make a gnu/linux appliance.

i got the idea of dumping this script into xinitrc.d after poring
through the commands of the xsession script in /etc. i noted a part here
that goes to this directory and runs any scripts in this directory.

step 6: test your setup, log-in through various accounts, using KDE,
gnome, and what have you, and the applications will launch.

my sincerest thanks to the following people who responded generously and
patiently to my queries, (list in no particular order):
sandip bhattacharya, supreet, raj mathur, shuvam mishra, bhaskar dutta.

the above steps are a compilation of the various suggestions they
offered.

***
known limitations:
1) for any new user added to the computer, the root has to visudo and
add that person to the list of users of the root-password protected
firestarter. [applicable for other generic root-privileged applications
as well]

2) a user could simply close or quit this running application. wonder
how to respawn it or disable this ability.

3) raj recommended adding the application startup script in /etc/init.d.
noted that such a shellscript already exists in this directory, added by
firestarter's installation, and that does not work. raj's suggestion is
that doing so would no longer require sudoing and mucking around with
the sudeoers list.

***

for those who wish to create auto-run applications for a particular user
in a particular environment, here's what you need to do:

step 1: create a shell script that launches the required applications.

step2: place this script in the /home/whoever/.kde/Autostart/ directory.

note: if the user is using kde. you have to find similar places for
other environments.

thanks guys, for all your help, and hope others who wish to auto-run
applications can use the above steps.

:-)
LL


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[ilugd] Enterprise Software Stack across operating Systems ?

[Tarun Upadhyay]

Alright, all sysadmins and PHBs.  

I created (to the best of my knowledge) how software stack in enterprise
(defined as companies with greater than 200 employees) space looks like
between Microsoft and OSS products.

Just for the fun sake, I also included the "leading" commercial UNIX
offerings that are comparable.
I have made blue whatever product out of three I think is the leader (at
least in the world of PHB).

I would welcome any opinions on (yeah my asbestos suit is on):
A) any services/features/products that I might have missed. (which
estimatedely are used in at least 25% of enterprises)
B) any information that you think is factually incorrect in the sheet.
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Re: [ilugd] Re: two questions

[Bhaskar Dutta]

Hi,

 I finally got to know the reason for the mysterious
occurrences regarding whois and ping. LL please give
your valuable suggestions on this.

 There seems to be a rogue worm in the wild, aptly
named [EMAIL PROTECTED] worm. Seems
to infect TCP port 43 (thus affecting whois) and
manipulate the server's NVT ASCII replies. The worm
also injects malicious text into the ICMP packets
resulting in the strange ping replies. The worm is
Artificially Intelligent (mind you!) and seems to be
able to do amazing things not discovered yet ... LL
has already encountered one ... what about the others?

 You guys won't believe what happened when I tried to
ping case.edu.pk again some time back. The transcript
is shown below verbatim :
--
 $ ping www.case.edu.pk
 .
 Dude, what's your problem? Are you some kind of jerk?
Or plain stupid? 
--

 Man, THAT was offending! I was shocked. Now I am
scared to ping the computer again lest I receive a
plethora of abuses. I would be glad if someone helps
me resolve this matter.
 Reports on the internet suggest that for the time
being use the "who_the_hell_is" utility instead of
whois. Also using ping with the --sco parameter
(stands for Suppress Crazy Output) may curb the
problem, though experts are not sure it works on all
platforms.

 BTW did you guys know that PING stands for Packet
InterNet Groper ? 

 Regards,
 Bhaskar.


 --- LinuxLingam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 
> > 
> >  After the whois session, i tried ping. You guys
> won't
> > believe what strange results I got! All I got was
> a string of pongs! Like this...
> 
> okay, this gets even more weird. i tried the stated
> ping command, and my
> doorbell started going ding dong ding dong until i
> pressed control+c.
> how did they wire up my doorbell. ipv69?
> 
> what the heck is going on here?
> 
> LL
> 


=
---
Bhaskar Dutta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 GPG  = AA56 1EB5 D7E8 DD9C 298E  8F4D 375F D416 01D5 671C
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Re: [ilugd] Re: two questions

[LinuxLingam]

> 
>  After the whois session, i tried ping. You guys won't
> believe what strange results I got! All I got was a
> string of pongs! Like this...

okay, this gets even more weird. i tried the stated ping command, and my
doorbell started going ding dong ding dong until i pressed control+c.
how did they wire up my doorbell. ipv69?

what the heck is going on here?

LL



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[ilugd] plan9

[LinuxLingam]

anyone using the new-generation OS called Plan9, made by bell labs and
some of the original creators of Unix?


Plan 9 is an advanced multi-user Open Source operating system
designed with networking in mind. It runs on multiple hardware platforms
and is highly suited to building large distributed systems. 

A typical Plan 9 installation would comprise one or more file servers,
some CPU servers and a large number of terminals (user workstations).

Plan 9 is suitable for small research groups to large organizations. The
low system management overhead makes it particularly suitable for
classroom and teaching applications. 

Plan 9 was developed at Bell Labs (the research division of Lucent
Technologies). In July 2000 the 3rd Edition was released as Open Source,
and this is was quickly made available by Vita Nuova in the form of a
bootable CD. The 4th Edition was released by Bell Labs in April 2002 and
Vita Nuova is now shipping 4th Edition Boxed Sets and CDs. The
developers of plan 9 include some of the original Unix designers
including Rob Pike and Dennis Richie. 

To the end user, Plan 9 bears a superficial resemblance to Unix, but the
underlying operating system is very different. In particular, Plan 9 was
designed as a network operating system, as opposed to Unix where
networking support was added as an afterthought. Some of the standard
Unix tools are available, but they have generally been either enhanced
or completely rewritten. 

Plan 9 has been ported to a number of architectures, including Intel
x86, Sparc, Alpha, Power PC, and Arm. 




it is muft and mukt, without being a gnu license. read its licensing
policy.
The full text of the Plan 9 Open Source Licence can be found at the Bell
Labs Plan 9 site. The licence is similar to many Open Source licences. 

The main points are:

  * You can modify, copy and distribute the source code as you wish.
  * There are no royalty payments on the distribution.
  * 

actually, the correct url is
http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9dist/


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Re: [ilugd] Re: two questions

[Ambar Roy]

BTW, FYI...

Ambar Roy
WHOIS whois.nic.fr inria.fr:


Tous droits reserves par copyright.
Voir http://www.nic.fr/outils/dbcopyright.html
Rights restricted by copyright.
See http://www.nic.fr/outils/dbcopyright.html

domain:  inria.fr
descr:   Institut National de Recherche en Informatique
descr:   et Automatique - INRIA
descr:   Domaine de Voluceau, B.P. 105
descr:   78153 Le Chesnay CEDEX, France
admin-c: DT5-FRNIC
tech-c:  GR1378-FRNIC
tech-c:  PB2340-FRNIC
zone-c:  NFC1-FRNIC
nserver: dns.inria.fr 193.51.208.13
nserver: ns2.nic.fr
nserver: nez-perce.inria.fr 192.93.2.78
nserver: imag.imag.fr
nserver: dns.cs.wisc.edu
nserver: dns.princeton.edu
mnt-by:  FR-NIC-MNT
mnt-lower:   FR-NIC-MNT
changed: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20020816
source:  FRNIC

role:GIP RENATER
address: GIP RENATER
address: Ensam
address: 151, boulevard de l'Hopital
address: 75013 Paris
address: France
phone:   +33 1 53 94 20 30
fax-no:  +33 1 53 94 20 31
e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
trouble: Information: http://www.Renater.fr/
trouble: abuse reports, ... mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
trouble: questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
admin-c: DV321-FRNIC
tech-c:  FS65-FRNIC
tech-c:  BT261-FRNIC
tech-c:  OG252-FRNIC
tech-c:  MJ1430-FRNIC
tech-c:  MD5336-FRNIC
tech-c:  SJ94-FRNIC
tech-c:  ED168-FRNIC
tech-c:  BG203-FRNIC
tech-c:  CT1053-FRNIC
tech-c:  SEH1-FRNIC
tech-c:  HS89-FRNIC
tech-c:  FXA1-FRNIC
nic-hdl: GR1378-FRNIC
mnt-by:  RENATER-MNT
changed: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20020220
changed: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20030218
source:  FRNIC

role:NIC France Contact
address: AFNIC
address: immeuble international
address: 2, rue Stephenson
address: Montigny-Le-Bretonneux
address: 78181 Saint Quentin en Yvelines Cedex
address: France
phone:   +33 1 39 30 83 00
fax-no:  +33 1 39 30 83 01
e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
trouble: Information: http://www.nic.fr/
trouble: Questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
trouble: Spam: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
trouble: Test: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
admin-c: NFC1-FRNIC
tech-c:  PL12-FRNIC
tech-c:  JP-FRNIC
tech-c:  EM634-FRNIC
tech-c:  MS1887-FRNIC
tech-c:  VL-FRNIC
tech-c:  PR1249-FRNIC
tech-c:  PV827-FRNIC
tech-c:  GO661-FRNIC
tech-c:  FT1632-FRNIC
tech-c:  MS-FRNIC
tech-c:  AI1-FRNIC
tech-c:  SDA2-FRNIC
tech-c:  JJB-FRNIC
nic-hdl: NFC1-FRNIC
mnt-by:  FR-NIC-MNT
changed: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20011025
changed: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20020711
source:  FRNIC

person:  Daniel TERRER
address: Inria Sophia-Antipolis
address: 2004, route des Lucioles, BP 93
address: 06902, Sophia-Antipolis
phone:   +33 4 92 38 77 22
fax-no:  +33 4 92 38 76 02
e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
nic-hdl: DT5-FRNIC
mnt-by:  RENATER-MNT
changed: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 19990512
changed: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2111
changed: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20001015
source:  FRNIC

person:  Philippe BALSE
address: INRIA Sophia-Antipolis
address: 2004 route des Lucioles
address: BP 93
address: 06902 Sophia-Antipolis CEDEX
address: FRANCE
phone:   +33 4 92 38 79 34
fax-no:  +33 4 92 38 76 02
e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
nic-hdl: PB2340-FRNIC
notify:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
changed: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 19990512
changed: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20001015
source:  FRNIC





- Original Message - 
From: "Bhaskar Dutta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "The Linux-Delhi mailing list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 12:34 AM
Subject: Re: [ilugd] Re: two questions


> 
>  Hi,
> 
>   I tried out the two questions posed on ping and
> whois. I got some suspiciously funny results which I
> would like to share with you people. Could anyone
> please enlighten me further 
> 
>  $ whois inria.fr
>  
>  Result: [translated from french by a helpful friend]
>  Dude, You seem to be from India. INRIA is in France.
> Unless you have achieved geekdom, INRIA wouldn't take
> you as a researcher. Moreover, we don't speak english
> so how the hell are going to manage here?? Please
> don't waste your time in asking who is INRIA. Call +33
> 1 39 63 55 11 if you want to know more!
> [in plain words, lay off!]
>  
>  $ whois case.edu.pk
> 
>  Result: You seem to be from India. CASE is in
> _Pakistan_. Don't you know we don't admit Indian
> students here! Please..
> [in plain words, lay off!]
> 
> 
>  $ whois yahoo.com
> 
>  Result: YET ANOTHER HIERARCHICAL OFFICIOUS ORACLE
>  sung: yah-ho [wanna know more ?!]
> 
> 
>  What the hell is goin on? Is my computer nuts or are
> these standard replies?? Please help me, O
> knowledgeable LUGians.
> 
>  After the whois session, i tried ping. You guys won't
> believe what strange results I got! All I got was a
> string of pongs! Like this...
> 
>  $ p

Re: [ilugd] Re: two questions

[Ambar Roy]

ROTFL
is this for real? or are you trying to pull a fast one here ;)

None of these are possible responses from the real programs.

BTW check out www.xwhois.com for whois info, and www.network-tools.com for a
sometimes working ping tool ;)

Ambar Roy
- Original Message -
From: "Bhaskar Dutta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "The Linux-Delhi mailing list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 12:34 AM
Subject: Re: [ilugd] Re: two questions


>
>  Hi,
>
>   I tried out the two questions posed on ping and
> whois. I got some suspiciously funny results which I
> would like to share with you people. Could anyone
> please enlighten me further 
>
>  $ whois inria.fr
>
>  Result: [translated from french by a helpful friend]
>  Dude, You seem to be from India. INRIA is in France.
> Unless you have achieved geekdom, INRIA wouldn't take
> you as a researcher. Moreover, we don't speak english
> so how the hell are going to manage here?? Please
> don't waste your time in asking who is INRIA. Call +33
> 1 39 63 55 11 if you want to know more!
> [in plain words, lay off!]
>
>  $ whois case.edu.pk
>
>  Result: You seem to be from India. CASE is in
> _Pakistan_. Don't you know we don't admit Indian
> students here! Please..
> [in plain words, lay off!]
>
>
>  $ whois yahoo.com
>
>  Result: YET ANOTHER HIERARCHICAL OFFICIOUS ORACLE
>  sung: yah-ho [wanna know more ?!]
>
>
>  What the hell is goin on? Is my computer nuts or are
> these standard replies?? Please help me, O
> knowledgeable LUGians.
>
>  After the whois session, i tried ping. You guys won't
> believe what strange results I got! All I got was a
> string of pongs! Like this...
>
>  $ ping www.case.edu.pk
>  Result: pong
>
>  $ ping www.case.edu.pk
>  Result: pong pong
>
>  $ ping www.case.edu.pk
>  Result: pong pong pong
>
>  $ ping www.case.edu.pk
>  Result: pong pong pong pong
>
>  $ ping www.case.edu.pk
>  Result: pong pong pong pong
>
>  $ ping www.case.edu.pk
>  Result: AREN'T YOU TIRED PLAYING PING PONG
>
>
>  Someone please tell me whether this is the antic of
> some unknown ICMP virus or something supernatural
>
>
>  Regards,
>  Bhaskar.
>
>
>  --- Spoonman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 29, 2003 at 11:58:45AM +0530, Sandip
> > Bhattacharya wrote:
> > Sandip>Arshad H. Siddiqui wrote:
> > Sandip>
> > Sandip>>Q1. The whois utility translates between
> > domain names and organizations.
> > Sandip>>Read the man page of whois and experiment
> > it. Try whois inria.fr, whois
> > Sandip>>case.edu.pk, whois yahoo.com and give your
> > results.
> > Sandip>>
> > Sandip>>Q2. The ping utility can be used to measure
> > the round trip time between
> > Sandip>>Internet hosts. Read the man page for
> > details on the options used to
> > Sandip>>control ping. What the -s option is for? Try
> > ping www.case.edu.pk -s,
> > Sandip>>ping www.geocities.com and give summary of
> > results in each case.
> >
> > Looks coming straight out of a Assignement. dude,
> > the answers
> > are stated right inside the questions.
> >
> > Do what the question says RTFM. More polietly,
> > Please Read the
> > Fine Man page.
> >
> > If you have acces to a linux box just open a
> > console/term window  and
> > type
> >
> > man  whois
> > man ping
> >
>
>
> =
> ---
> Bhaskar Dutta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  GPG  = AA56 1EB5 D7E8 DD9C 298E  8F4D 375F D416 01D5 671C
> ---
>
> 
> Want to chat instantly with your online friends?  Get the FREE Yahoo!
> Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk
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Re: [ilugd] Re: two questions

[Bhaskar Dutta]

 Hi,

  I tried out the two questions posed on ping and
whois. I got some suspiciously funny results which I
would like to share with you people. Could anyone
please enlighten me further 

 $ whois inria.fr
 
 Result: [translated from french by a helpful friend]
 Dude, You seem to be from India. INRIA is in France.
Unless you have achieved geekdom, INRIA wouldn't take
you as a researcher. Moreover, we don't speak english
so how the hell are going to manage here?? Please
don't waste your time in asking who is INRIA. Call +33
1 39 63 55 11 if you want to know more!
[in plain words, lay off!]
 
 $ whois case.edu.pk

 Result: You seem to be from India. CASE is in
_Pakistan_. Don't you know we don't admit Indian
students here! Please..
[in plain words, lay off!]


 $ whois yahoo.com

 Result: YET ANOTHER HIERARCHICAL OFFICIOUS ORACLE
 sung: yah-ho [wanna know more ?!]


 What the hell is goin on? Is my computer nuts or are
these standard replies?? Please help me, O
knowledgeable LUGians.

 After the whois session, i tried ping. You guys won't
believe what strange results I got! All I got was a
string of pongs! Like this...

 $ ping www.case.edu.pk
 Result: pong

 $ ping www.case.edu.pk
 Result: pong pong

 $ ping www.case.edu.pk
 Result: pong pong pong

 $ ping www.case.edu.pk
 Result: pong pong pong pong

 $ ping www.case.edu.pk
 Result: pong pong pong pong

 $ ping www.case.edu.pk
 Result: AREN'T YOU TIRED PLAYING PING PONG


 Someone please tell me whether this is the antic of
some unknown ICMP virus or something supernatural


 Regards,
 Bhaskar.


 --- Spoonman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On Mon, Sep 29, 2003 at 11:58:45AM +0530, Sandip
> Bhattacharya wrote:
> Sandip>Arshad H. Siddiqui wrote:
> Sandip>
> Sandip>>Q1. The whois utility translates between
> domain names and organizations. 
> Sandip>>Read the man page of whois and experiment
> it. Try whois inria.fr, whois 
> Sandip>>case.edu.pk, whois yahoo.com and give your
> results.
> Sandip>>
> Sandip>>Q2. The ping utility can be used to measure
> the round trip time between 
> Sandip>>Internet hosts. Read the man page for
> details on the options used to 
> Sandip>>control ping. What the -s option is for? Try
> ping www.case.edu.pk -s, 
> Sandip>>ping www.geocities.com and give summary of
> results in each case.
> 
>   Looks coming straight out of a Assignement. dude,
> the answers
>   are stated right inside the questions.
>   
>   Do what the question says RTFM. More polietly,
> Please Read the
>   Fine Man page.
> 
>   If you have acces to a linux box just open a
> console/term window  and 
>   type 
>   
>   man  whois
>   man ping
>   


=
---
Bhaskar Dutta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 GPG  = AA56 1EB5 D7E8 DD9C 298E  8F4D 375F D416 01D5 671C
---


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Re: [ilugd] LDAP Information Required

[Raj Shekhar]

On Mon, 2003-09-29 at 22:25, ksdh khkh wrote:
> Hi 
> 
>  I'm looking for some LDAP information(from developer's perspective). My specific 
> interest is in some tutorials which discuss LDAP from that angle.
> 
>  I'll be greatful if anyone can provide some clue.
> 

Use google and search for LDAP Red book by IBM. Its an excellent
resource. Different programming languages provide their own APIs to
interact with LDAP servers. For example in PHP's API you can see
http://www.php.net/manual/en/ref.ldap.php
Most LDAP servers will provide their own C/C++ APIs at the least. 
-- 
   / \__
  (@\___Raj Shekhar  
  / O   My home : http://geocities.com/lunatech3007/
 /   (_/My blog : http://lunatech.journalspace.com/
/_/   U  



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Re: [ilugd] Re: two questions

[Spoonman]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, Sep 29, 2003 at 11:58:45AM +0530, Sandip Bhattacharya wrote:
Sandip>Arshad H. Siddiqui wrote:
Sandip>
Sandip>>Q1. The whois utility translates between domain names and organizations. 
Sandip>>Read the man page of whois and experiment it. Try whois inria.fr, whois 
Sandip>>case.edu.pk, whois yahoo.com and give your results.
Sandip>>
Sandip>>Q2. The ping utility can be used to measure the round trip time between 
Sandip>>Internet hosts. Read the man page for details on the options used to 
Sandip>>control ping. What the -s option is for? Try ping www.case.edu.pk -s, 
Sandip>>ping www.geocities.com and give summary of results in each case.

Looks coming straight out of a Assignement. dude, the answers
are stated right inside the questions.

Do what the question says RTFM. More polietly, Please Read the
Fine Man page.

If you have acces to a linux box just open a console/term window  and 
type 

man  whois
man ping

HIH 
- --end quoted text---

- -- 
all the things we keep inside,
are the things that really matter,
the face puts on its best disguise,
and all is well, until the heart betrays.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE/eHxD7v3NbZTFJeIRAqIiAJ9nKXL8DT2u9hetc9WBUZe9nUk83QCfQStG
H27zAdhR7r667oJ/dXA7fqg=
=/udm
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: [ilugd] Re: Openoffice 1.1 RCs and other publishing questions

[Spoonman]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, Sep 29, 2003 at 05:58:51PM +0530, Sandip Bhattacharya wrote:
Sandip>LinuxLingam wrote:
Sandip>I meant that if I use OpenOffice for document processing and then use 
Sandip>its PDF export option, the format of the images embedded within its 
Sandip>document is important. Maybe because it has something to do with the 
Sandip>PS/PDF renderer within OOo. I have also used a combination of MS Word 
Sandip>and the freely available PDFCreator (based on ghostscript) on the 
Sandip>Windows platform to generate PDFs. In both the cases it "appeared" to me 
Sandip>that using uncompressed(or unharmed unlike JPG) image formats work best.

 Dont use OOo. period.
 Basic teX takes 20 minutes of learning and some apt-get-ing and
 to produce high quality pdf's you would have to invest some
 time. but to a programmer like you it would come naturally.

PLUS POINT 2: you wont need to go out of emacs *ever*. :)

- -- 
all the things we keep inside,
are the things that really matter,
the face puts on its best disguise,
and all is well, until the heart betrays.
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[ilugd] LDAP Information Required

[ksdh khkh]

Hi 

 I'm looking for some LDAP information(from developer's perspective). My specific 
interest is in some tutorials which discuss LDAP from that angle.

 I'll be greatful if anyone can provide some clue.

Wishes

Vikas Sharma



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Re: [ilugd] Re: Openoffice 1.1 RCs and other publishing questions

[LinuxLingam]

> I agree. But then that's not really a fault of the port 80 service; it's
> a limitation of the browser, which feels users will be more than happy to
> get a legible page, and aesthetics be hanged. Maybe someday, Mozilla will
> come out with a better typesetting engine. :)
> 
> Shuvam


the html structure is designed with no understanding of typography and
typesetting.

the browser merely parses, using the fonts and the font rendering engine
in the accompanying OS. remove your 'essential' set of fonts from your
OS and you'll see.

ironically, TeX, which is 25 years old, does a great job of typesetting.
would have been much better if web pages were designed 10 years ago, as
*.tex files and a browser parsed it on the localhost. this *.tex file
only needed a few extensions for linking, and MIMEs. that's it. plus a
few more new-stuff technology support.

the other option could have been *.ps file as a web page, highly
condensed, compressed, and with extensions for linking, and other web
technologies.

but sadly, *.html took off, and no matter what happens in the future,
the world is straddled with the billions of html pages out there with
the ugliness of typography. nothing can undo that.

LL


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RE: [ilugd] IRQ probe

[Bhaskar Dutta]

Hi,
  I presume you are using GRUB as your bootloader as
it is installed by default in Red Hat 8. Open the
/boot/grub/grub.conf file and modify the line similar
to [these lines are from my grub.conf file, yours will
be slightly different] --->

kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.18-14_custom_fs ro root=LABEL=/ 

to the following:

kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.18-14_custom_fs ro root=LABEL=/
hdc=noprobe hdd=noprobe 

(The whole params are in a single line, no line
breaks). That should do the work. In case you are
using LILO, edit the lilo.conf file and add the line
--->

append="hdc=noprobe hdc=noprobe"

to the beginning of the file. Don't forget to run
/sbin/lilo after the change to lilo.conf.

Regards,
Bhaskar


 --- "Sudeep Kumar Sharma - (BHM Deputee)"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> thanks bhaskar
> 
> no i am not using any kind of patches, and for ur
> information i am using RedHat 8.0.
> Using the latest kernel release 2.4.20. and i have
> no devices earlier intalled on my system.
> One more thing u have said to passw hdc=noprobe and
> hdd=noprobe, but will u plz tell me how to do that.
> i am a newbie to linux.
> 




=
---
Bhaskar Dutta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 GPG  = AA56 1EB5 D7E8 DD9C 298E  8F4D 375F D416 01D5 671C
---


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Re: [ilugd] Re: Openoffice 1.1 RCs and other publishing questions

[LinuxLingam]

On Mon, 2003-09-29 at 18:58, Sanjeev "Ghane" Gupta wrote:
> On Monday, September 29, 2003 8:13 PM [GMT+0800],
> LinuxLingam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > images for prepress have some strict requirements: survival rules are
> > as follows (don't ask me details on why, that is too fundamental to
> > explain over email):
> > 300ppi images.
> > black and white lineart, (two-bit): 1200 to 3600dpi.
> 
> Shouldn't this be lpi?

sigh! i was expecting that question.
lpi is quite different from ppi, which is quite different from dpi.

dpi is *not* ppi.
ppi is *not* lpi.
lpi is *not* dpi.

all three are different terms.

the concepts are too fundamental. because of the confusion of these
terms, things get royally screwed in production environment. imho, the
next time you see a scanner specification that states the resolution in
dpi, drop your pants, sit on the scanner, press the scan button, and
save the image at the maximum resolution as "myass.jpg"

:-)

there are various fundamental mathematical equations that equate these
terms, but the topic is too vast and dense to explain here.

:-)

LL


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Re: [ilugd] Openoffice 1.1 RCs and other publishing questions

[LinuxLingam]

On Mon, 2003-09-29 at 18:22, Shuvam Misra wrote:

> Among my friends is one gentleman who has
> worked for fifteen years with The Economist as a graphic designer and
> typographer, and has designed the font family used by that magazine
> today. 

yes! i have heard of him. he did this nearly a decade ago, and he
created the font called 'EcoType' for the economist, and then went on to
redesign the magazine as well.
 i would love to get in touch with him. i believe he is not settled in
india.


> He is an avid Mac user, he likes Linux and Unix, and says that the
> Windows implementation of rendering engines, etc, is not up to the mark.

correct. however, the win doze implementation of the font rendering
engine has improved and excelled over the past 2 to three years, since
xp and win2k. so much so that adobe's adobe type manager application is
no longer required for font rendering.

> He says that even Adobe's packages available on both platforms do their
> job differently; the Mac version does it better, because of native
> rendering engine support within the OS.
> 

nah! for many things the applications are dependent on the OS, but with
applications like indesign, the whole rendering is done inside the
application, and at such a sophisticated level that i think the OS will
take ages to catch up. acrobat's technology also does something similar,
though far simpler and rudimentary.

alas! freetype2 tnhe font rendering engine under gnulinux, and scribus
as the application, are generations behind time. i strongly wish these
two would get a massive overhaul by the community. in fact, the
opportunity is tremendous, since they can learn from the mistakes of the
past and the legacy on the propreitory platforms. it is quite exciting.


> Shuvam
> 
> PS: It's refreshing to just talk to a few people who appear to know that
> there's a whole beautiful world beyond MS Word and Pagemaker when it
> comes to formatted text. :)

yes, and i wish more and more people could be made aware of this beauty.
especially those who work in development in computers. since they are
the ones who straddle us with horrid typography coded into stuff.

from cellphone displays, airport terminals, traffic signs, console
fonts, X11 typography, html typesetting and stylesheets . . . i always
dread the next wrinkling of technology, since precedent shows that
typography and aesthetics will be given another solid kick by the
developers of these.
:-)
LL


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RE: [ilugd] IRQ probe

[supreet]

in Lilo 
use append parameter.

Grub

append at end of kernel parameter

Supreet



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Re: [ilugd] Re: Openoffice 1.1 RCs and other publishing questions

[Raj Shekhar]

On Mon, 2003-09-29 at 18:16, Shuvam Misra wrote:

> Check
> http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=117318&tocid=0&query=typography&ct=
> as an easy starting point.
It requires registeration and is available for 72 hrs only. I would
suggest the goodle directory
http://directory.google.com/Top/Arts/Graphic_Design/Typography/?tc=1
and http://www.microsoft.com/typography/users.htm

-- 
   / \__
  (@\___Raj Shekhar  
  / O   My home : http://geocities.com/lunatech3007/
 /   (_/My blog : http://lunatech.journalspace.com/
/_/   U  



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Re: [ilugd] Re: Openoffice 1.1 RCs and other publishing questions

[Shuvam Misra]

> I meant that if I use OpenOffice for document processing and then use
> its PDF export option, the format of the images embedded within its
> document is important. Maybe because it has something to do with the
> PS/PDF renderer within OOo. I have also used a combination of MS Word
> and the freely available PDFCreator (based on ghostscript) on the
> Windows platform to generate PDFs. In both the cases it "appeared" to me
> that using uncompressed(or unharmed unlike JPG) image formats work best.

You would not have seen this result if you had compared your JPEG images
with image formats like GIF or PNG, but at adequate resolution (say,
600 dpi). That would have made for _huge_ GIFs perhaps, but you'd have
seen excellent results. Basically, it's not the file format, but the
resolution.

The reason you're seeing this is because JPEG being lossy, can be
uncompressed to any size using a complex mathematical function. The
uncompressed image does not have to be the same size as the original
image which was compressed to create the JPEG. The mathematical
decompression algo is smart enough to do a fairly smooth scaling up,
hence you see acceptable print quality even though you're probably
printing 100 times as many pixels as there were in the original source.
GIFs don't get the benefit of any such smart scaleups, so you see
pixellation.

Shuvam


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Re: [ilugd] Re: Openoffice 1.1 RCs and other publishing questions

[Shuvam Misra]

> while india is sleeping, the world has moved away from tiff to pdf for
> embedded images as well. i find this quite exciting. but again, you need
> to understand how to create these special types of pdfs...

We have not understood any of the deep stuff, but we've begun to use
PDF images in the documents we create. We write our text in LaTeX, and
process it using pdflatex. For images, we either have vector or raster,
both of which we convert to EPS (almost everyone can save an image or
graphic to EPS).  Most of the time, it is diagrams we create using XFig,
which we just save to .fig and use a Makefile rule using transfig to
convert .fig to .eps.

We then use a Perlscript called epstopdf to convert these EPS files to
PDF, and include them within our LaTeX document. Our LaTeX source
contains the following lines:

\ifx\pdftexversion\undefined
\usepackage{graphicx}
\else
\usepackage[pdftex]{graphicx}
\fi

And then we include our PDF images into the LaTeX document using the
\includegraphics[...]{...} directive. Works beautifully. Vector images
remain as vector within the PDF document, conserving disk space,
bandwidth and rendering time.

We used to use a different chain altogether before. We used to use
"latex", not "pdflatex" to compile our source, and used the
dvips-specific "\epsffile" directive to include EPS images into the
document. Then, the final DVI file would be put through "dvips" to make
PS, followed by a run through "ps2pdf" to make PDF.

We found that those PDF files have bitmaps for text as well as graphics.
This means that somewhere down the chain, either in dvips, or in ps2pdf
(which is just a wrapper on GS), the scalable vector fonts and drawings
were being converted to bitmaps. Rendering on the screen would take ages,
and printing on a fast laser printer through GS would take ages too.
(This was true even if the printer understood Postscript in firmware.)

Having switched to pdflatex and this new chain of tools, we have licked
this problem.

Shuvam


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Re: [ilugd] Re: Openoffice 1.1 RCs and other publishing questions

[Shuvam Misra]

> even more depressing is the birth of the www.
> web pages and web-typesetting, is the ugliest, worst incarnation of a
> typesetting style. its use of underline, lousy letter and word spacing,
> incorrect handling of tables, font-rendering, etc is pathetic. every
> aspect of web-based typesetting is in contrast to hundreds of years of
> typography. it is thoroughly disgusting.

I agree. But then that's not really a fault of the port 80 service; it's
a limitation of the browser, which feels users will be more than happy to
get a legible page, and aesthetics be hanged. Maybe someday, Mozilla will
come out with a better typesetting engine. :)

Shuvam


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Re: [ilugd] Re: Openoffice 1.1 RCs and other publishing questions

[Sanjeev \"Ghane\" Gupta]

On Monday, September 29, 2003 8:13 PM [GMT+0800],
LinuxLingam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> images for prepress have some strict requirements: survival rules are
> as follows (don't ask me details on why, that is too fundamental to
> explain over email):
> 300ppi images.
> black and white lineart, (two-bit): 1200 to 3600dpi.

Shouldn't this be lpi?

--
Sanjeev

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[ilugd] FAQ-o-matic for ilugd?

[Sandip Bhattacharya]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
How abot setting up a FAQ-o-matic for ILUGD? Many of the common
questions like Oracle licensing and other stuff may be answered there
and is a better structured resource than the archives.
- - Sandip

- --
Sandip Bhattacharyahttp://www.sandipb.net
sandip at puroga.com
Puroga Technologies Pvt. Ltd.
http://www.puroga.com
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iD8DBQE/eC+/l/1mfYV2JacRArztAJ42bbfjnk+Swac7bOiN0W9SXjrLvACgijSP
HnxFHW3LLjo02hom6edXGWk=
=8mdB
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Re: [ilugd] Openoffice 1.1 RCs and other publishing questions

[Shuvam Misra]

> i tend to disagree on some issues here. PDF has commoditized postscript,
> and bridged the 'digital divide' between the advanced users and
> beginners. as a macintosh user since 1984 i can tell you ...

Very interesting. Many things here I didn't know. Thanks. :)

I don't have first-hand experience working with full-time with fonts and
page composition. Most of my knowledge about professional typesetting and
typography is second-hand. Among my friends is one gentleman who has
worked for fifteen years with The Economist as a graphic designer and
typographer, and has designed the font family used by that magazine
today. He is an avid Mac user, he likes Linux and Unix, and says that the
Windows implementation of rendering engines, etc, is not up to the mark.
He says that even Adobe's packages available on both platforms do their
job differently; the Mac version does it better, because of native
rendering engine support within the OS.

Don't know how it fits in with your experiences.

Shuvam

PS: It's refreshing to just talk to a few people who appear to know that
there's a whole beautiful world beyond MS Word and Pagemaker when it
comes to formatted text. :)


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Re: [ilugd] Re: Openoffice 1.1 RCs and other publishing questions

[LinuxLingam]

> I meant that if I use OpenOffice for document processing and then use 
> its PDF export option, the format of the images embedded within its 
> document is important. Maybe because it has something to do with the 
> PS/PDF renderer within OOo. I have also used a combination of MS Word 
> and the freely available PDFCreator (based on ghostscript) on the 
> Windows platform to generate PDFs. In both the cases it "appeared" to me 
> that using uncompressed(or unharmed unlike JPG) image formats work best.
> 

yes the format is important. in your case, using tiff or jpg would both
work. however, the original image resolution, color mode, are far more
important settings, as per the earlier email. 300ppi, rb or cmyk, works
best.

interestingly, jpg's apparant conversion of an image has been studied,
and it has been discovered that the prepress and printing process does
its own variations anyways, so 'moderately' compressing a jpg does not
create any significant problems to an image.

do ensure your image is embedded in the software. many software tend to
link images displaying a low resolution rendering. the original image
must be sent to the press or the pdf

> - Sandip
> 


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Re: [ilugd] Re: Openoffice 1.1 RCs and other publishing questions

[Shuvam Misra]

> very good question indeed, sandip. the art of document layout,
> *incorrectly* called desktop publishing, is a specialised profession
> altogether.
>
> the art is called 'typography'.

We usually use the word "typography" to refer to the art and science of
font design, and "typesetting" to refer to the art and science of page
composition and layout. In other words, when you begin creating
compositions larger than a single letter, it goes beyond the boundary of
"typography."

It's possible that others use "typography" the way you did... don't know.

> you could start with some basic googling on 'typography and page-design'
> or 'typography and page composition' with a few extra keywords,
> 'introduction' 'learning' 'technique' beginner, etc etc.

Check
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=117318&tocid=0&query=typography&ct=

as an easy starting point.

Shuvam


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Re: [ilugd] Please Provide Me CDs of Oracle 9i for Linux !!!

[Shuvam Misra]

>  Can any one provide me the software of Oracle 9i for
> Linux ??? I do want to install it on RedHat 9 box.

I presume you understand that you are asking someone to break the terms
of the Oracle licence agreement by doing this?

Shuvam


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Re: [ilugd] hotmail to pop

[Rajesh K. Jha]

I installed hotWayd  and tried to use it to download Hotmail to the
evolution email client. However, at the stage the evolution starts
working, it asks for password which I supply ( the password I use to
access my hotmail account). It says wrong pass word/ authentication
error.I have followed the instructions for using the software hotWayd.
I don't understand why in the server name ( which I have set to
'localhost', I tried with the IP address of my computer too without much
success) the evolution screen displays [EMAIL PROTECTED] or
[EMAIL PROTECTED] or whatever I set as the server name in the evolution
setting for hotmail.I faced the same problem while using yahoopops.
Thanks,
Rajesh K. Jha


On Mon, 2003-09-29 at 01:02, vivek wrote:
> Prateek Khanna wrote:
> > LL> HotWayd is a POP3-HTTPMail gateway. HTTPMail is an undocumented
> >
> > LL> email accounts via POP3.
> > 
> > Hey I remember using another one called "gotmail".  Does a similar kinda 
> > thing.  The name does explain it!
> > 
> 
> afaik gotmail downloads mail from hotmail and pushes it either to a smtp
> server or saves it in the user's maildir/mbox file. on the other hand,
> this HotWayd seems to act as a pop3 server, so that in mozilla-mail, or
> evolution yu'll specify the pop3 server as localhost and run HotWayd in
> the background, something like YahooPOPs on windows, but seems better
> than that.
> 
> atleast it can installed on one server, and all the clients can connect
> to it and download mails on their individual machines whether it is
> windows or linux, and outlook/mozilla-mail/evolution/kmail/balsa
> whatever pop3 reader.


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[ilugd] Re: Openoffice 1.1 RCs and other publishing questions

[Sandip Bhattacharya]

LinuxLingam wrote:

On Mon, 2003-09-29 at 09:44, Sandip Bhattacharya wrote:


One problemt hat I have seen with people who are using Acrobat for 
creating pre-press PDFs, is that the format of the embedded image in the 
document matters a lot. From my experiments I have seen that an 
uncompressed TIFF works best. Any tips that you have regarding this?


while india is sleeping, the world has moved away from tiff to pdf for
embedded images as well. i find this quite exciting. but again, you need
to understand how to create these special types of pdfs. then, there is
also eps, custom-tuned to the job at hand. tiff works okay too, but
there's a newer version, called tiff2, as also jpeg2000. most software
have begun to support the native fileformat of photoshop, illustrator.
svg is gradually becoming popular for vector images in prepress too.
I meant that if I use OpenOffice for document processing and then use 
its PDF export option, the format of the images embedded within its 
document is important. Maybe because it has something to do with the 
PS/PDF renderer within OOo. I have also used a combination of MS Word 
and the freely available PDFCreator (based on ghostscript) on the 
Windows platform to generate PDFs. In both the cases it "appeared" to me 
that using uncompressed(or unharmed unlike JPG) image formats work best.

- Sandip

--
Sandip Bhattacharyahttp://www.sandipb.net
sandip at puroga.com
Puroga Technologies Pvt. Ltd.
http://www.puroga.com


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Re: [ilugd] Re: Openoffice 1.1 RCs and other publishing questions

[LinuxLingam]

On Mon, 2003-09-29 at 09:44, Sandip Bhattacharya wrote:
> LinuxLingam wrote:
> 
> > 
> > so in answer to your question, you need to know how to create a pdf for
> > pre-press. assuming your work is in black-andwhite lineart, a text-only,
> > the pdf for print could safely be used for pdf for pre-press, unless you
> > have some halftone images, etc.
> 
> But we already have an export for pre-press quality PDF option. That 
> must be good enough?

pdf also conforms to the pipo and gigo rules of data (perfect in,
perfect out, and garbage in garbage out).

if your original image is a 72ppi index-color mode gif or something, it
can't be press-ready, even if you create a pdf for prepress.

images for prepress have some strict requirements: survival rules are as
follows (don't ask me details on why, that is too fundamental to explain
over email):
300ppi images.
black and white lineart, (two-bit): 1200 to 3600dpi.
color mode: rgb, cmyk, in the appropriate color depth.
black and white photos (grayscale) the tonal values of the image should
be mapped to the tonal values of the output, all this done in photoshop
or gimp.

then embed these images in your file, and then output to pdf, you are
okay.

issues of transparancy need to be tackled individually, depending on the
complexity of transparancy. ditto for gradients, meshes, and other
sophisticated techniques.

> 
> One problemt hat I have seen with people who are using Acrobat for 
> creating pre-press PDFs, is that the format of the embedded image in the 
> document matters a lot. From my experiments I have seen that an 
> uncompressed TIFF works best. Any tips that you have regarding this?


while india is sleeping, the world has moved away from tiff to pdf for
embedded images as well. i find this quite exciting. but again, you need
to understand how to create these special types of pdfs. then, there is
also eps, custom-tuned to the job at hand. tiff works okay too, but
there's a newer version, called tiff2, as also jpeg2000. most software
have begun to support the native fileformat of photoshop, illustrator.
svg is gradually becoming popular for vector images in prepress too.

:-)
LL


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Re: [ilugd] Re: Openoffice 1.1 RCs and other publishing questions

[LinuxLingam]

> Knuth (author of TeX) apparently had three PhD students doing work in
> hyphenation algorithms alone. This is how complex the field is. I've
> not been able to verify this story. :)

knuth's algorithms to set word-spacing across a paragraph is
mind-blowing. he moved into a highly specialised field in typography,
called 'micro-typography'. to his credit, *all* dtp and typesetting
tools in the digital domain are inspired by TeX.

> 
> In general, page composition done by today's computer-literate crowd is of
> very poor quality. Someone once said that modern WYSIWYG layout tools help
> you "not to follow rules of good typesetting, but to break them." Even
> among TeX users, I find a lot of blind following of defaults. For
> instance, people just use Computer Modern, totally unaware of gems like
> Imprint, Garamond, or Baskerville.  

argh! i find that even garamond, baskerville, imprint, are overused and
abused, especially by indian designers. for the information of others,
there are more than 6,500 'popular' fonts, all professional quality
meant for professional typesetting. it is a shame that computer OSes
ship with a mere handful, and tend to do 'defaults'.

meanwhile, the birth of truetype has led to several problems,
distortions, and all this compounded by the availability of several
thousand gimmicky and amateurish fonts that dot the digital domain.

'experts' tend to state that truetype fonts are of superior quality than
postscript fonts, but their statement is not based on facts. on many
occassions i have pointed out how truetype fonts are actually of
lower-quality than postscript, and it has to do with the maths behind
the forms.




> This leads to typesetting and font
> selection which does not reflect the material's content.  Of course,
> in the Windows world, the "Times New Roman" and the "Arial" and the
> default styles are so depressing that the less said, the better.

even more depressing is the birth of the www. 
web pages and web-typesetting, is the ugliest, worst incarnation of a
typesetting style. its use of underline, lousy letter and word spacing,
incorrect handling of tables, font-rendering, etc is pathetic. every
aspect of web-based typesetting is in contrast to hundreds of years of
typography. it is thoroughly disgusting.

> 
> If you can find any online resources, please let me know.

for the truly intrepid, may i recommend delving into the mirror
discipline of calligraphy. the web has some superb references on
calligraphy.

:-)
LL


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Re: [ilugd] Openoffice 1.1 RCs and other publishing questions

[LinuxLingam]

> I worked in an advertising company for sometime in Goa. Usually when we
> gave out the files for printing, the printers were satisfied by the
> Postscript files. However some of the printers wanted a Corel Draw file,
> though I suspect in the end they turned them to PS files. PDF are
> usually considered low resolution of what you will be getting. They are
> only good for previewing. 

some clarifications:
a coreldraw fileformat, and ultimately any other file sent to press, has
to be outputted as a postscript file. that is the only option. in 1989,
M$ and apple formed an alliance to create an alternative to postscript,
called TrueImage. the truetype fonts that all of us are familiar with
today, were born as the first step to 'legitimize' trueImage. However,
both companies abandoned trueImage. so if you use truetype fonts in your
publishing workflow, these fonts are 'wrapped' as postscript fonts at
the output end, and then ripped into pure postscript inside the
outputting device. this format-type is called 'type 42' fonts.

coreldraw bases its images in postscript. however, its parsing of
postscript is imho, quite lousy, and leads to several problems at
outputting.

pdf was born ten years ago to perform a pre-flight check on files meant
for outputting. think of pdf as the dvi format. if the corel file could
output a pdf through its postscript file, then the file would output at
the printer. ditto for other fileformats, including tex files. however,
within 2 years, pdf grew to become the defacto pre-flight check and the
final output fileformat as well. worldwide, people just prefer pdf
files. in india, the process is taking time, due to the wrong belief
that pdf is low resolution and only good for previewing. this thinking
is finally changing. incidentally, how many of you know that outlook
magazine is edited and produced every week in india but is sent through
high-speed access to mumbai as pdf files where it is printed flawlessly
at a very high and professional-level of quality, and distributed across
the country? that is the true power of pdf.


> 
> As far as your printer is concerned, I think he is insisting on having a
> scanned copy of the ad because his software may not import PDF. Ask him
> if he can use PS files or better still check out if yourself if his
> software can import PS files.

using some tools, you can easily convert ps to pdf and viceversa. imho,
both are two sides of the same coin.

> 
> Again I should point out that if you convert your docs to PDFs and then
> convert to PS there will be a loss in quality. 

nope. pdf is the container of ps. you could choose options for the
conversion that could enhance or modify some aspects. but mostly, pdf to
ps does not lead to any loss in quality.


i am eagerly looking forward to the day when the opensource community
starts creating professional tools for design and publishing based on
pdf and ps, using ghostscript.

:-)
LL


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Re: [ilugd] Openoffice 1.1 RCs and other publishing questions

[LinuxLingam]

> 
> This guy appears to be too small to know about PDF. He's probably the
> kind of guy who believes "DTP" is synonymous with "Pagemaker", and
> "computer" is synonymous with "Windows." I've seen slightly larger
> publishing and printing houses (those big enough to do books and
> magazines, not just flyers) totally dependent on Postscript, and now PDF.
> They actually buy Postscript fonts costing lots of money, and do all
> their page composition and galley proofs using high-end Postscript
> engines, and distinguish between Postscript fonts optimised for different
> printing engines (high speed printing presses and your "heavy duty" HP
> laser printer will need different optimised versions of fonts to get the
> same image), and so on. Quite a few of them use Macs for the back-end
> work.
> 
> And these guys never use PageMaker on Windows. Many of them use Quark
> Express, some use Frame Maker, etc.
> 
> Shuvam


i tend to disagree on some issues here. PDF has commoditized postscript,
and bridged the 'digital divide' between the advanced users and
beginners. as a macintosh user since 1984 i can tell you through
first-hand experience that since 1997-8, the win doze platform matches
or excels the mac platform for these tasks, and several independent
reports across the world endorse this as well. small-time imagesetting
bureaux across india have become more pdf-savvy and are quite happy to
accept pdf files and output them on film. i know several in delhi alone,
and can point others to you across india, even in non-metro cities like
poona, coimbatore, hyderabad, etc.

fonts optimised for different outputs was critical in the early
eighties. however, with the arrival of font-hinting, both in postcript
and then in truetype fonts, supported in opentype fonts as well, this
issue has become less relevant. it is only an issue today when it comes
to extremely small or extremely large sizes, too rough or too smooth
paper, the finish of the paper, and some peculiarities of a specific
font design. (a dense understanding of ink trapping with respect to
serif designs is required). and a few other issues as well.

sandip just seems to have come across a guy who does not know pdf yet.
he can just call up the yellow pages and find dozens of studios, even
ordinary 'dtp' setups, that can handle his stuff easily.

asia-pacific is pagemaker territory and has a large market-share in
india. the upper-middle tier use quark, but the top-end and the most
sophisticated tool is dominated by indesign. framemaker is a totally
different category of publishing, which i call 'document engineering'
and it is in this space that the opensource TeX competes heavily with
framemaker. do note that TeX is an ecosystem in itself, and has many
tools, software, that cover several vertical segments. most major
distributions of gnulinux come with tools for TeX.

the opensource community finally has scribus, barely 18 months old. i
have used this software somewhat, and find its features comparable to
pagemaker 5.x, quark 4, with some features from pagemaker 6, quark 5,
plus it supports pdf natively. however, imho, i find scribus too
amateurish for the professional community. it may be another 12 months
before something outstanding hits the market. but atleast the process
has started.

sandip, it is possible to do fairly sophisticated page layouts in
openoffice and save them as pdf. a few months ago i created a multi-page
report in openoffice and was quite impressed with its typographic
control and pdf output. i suspect openoffice borrows some concepts from
TeX. for instance, if you type '13th' the 'th' is automatically created
as a superscript, with some good typesetting controls.

:-)
LL


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Re: [ilugd] Re: Openoffice 1.1 RCs and other publishing questions

[LinuxLingam]

On Mon, 2003-09-29 at 08:51, Sandip Bhattacharya wrote:

> 
> Another question. The art of document layout and document styles in 
> publications seems to be diffrent profession altogether. Is there any 
> resource which can be looked at to find out more about this field?
> 
> - Sandip

very good question indeed, sandip. the art of document layout,
*incorrectly* called desktop publishing, is a specialised profession
altogether.

the art is called 'typography'.

typography, and its application, page-composition, cannot really be
taught. it can only be caught. disciples of typography through the ages
have worked with existing masters, observing and learning on-the-job.

the new age of misinformation has led to a new class of people, who pay
thousands of rupees to learn a software package like pagemaker or quark
or indesign, and are then misled into thinking they have acquired the
art of typography when in reality they have reached at best, the level
of 'typesetting', that too through software packages that impose their
own severe limitations and introduce several new anamolies.

in the opensource world, a programming language, called TeX, created by
donald knuth, to tackle the 'typesetting' of mathematics, stumbled into
the domain of typography. TeX gives you far more professional tools for
typesetting, and allows for ways of achieving several advanced
techniques of typesetting. however, it just cannot teach, or codify,
typography. which is a pure art.

photoshop does not teach or codify photography. ditto for gimp. at best
they recreate a photographer's dark room.

you could start with some basic googling on 'typography and page-design'
or 'typography and page composition' with a few extra keywords,
'introduction' 'learning' 'technique' beginner, etc etc.

hint: the best way to self-learn typography, is to study the
classification, birth, design, history, of fonts. where does 'times' or
'helvetica' come from?

(i do know of someone on this list who has quite recently conducted a
short course on an introduction to digital typography of about 30
classes, of one hour each.)

HTH

:-)
LL


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Re: [ilugd] Please Provide Me CDs of Oracle 9i for Linux !!!

[Tarun Dua]

On Mon, 2003-09-29 at 15:58, Pankaj_Kumar[JP]DOEACC:N.Delhi wrote:
> Hi Everybody,
>  Can any one provide me the software of Oracle 9i for
> Linux ??? 
No one except Oracle can do that. Download the CDs or get them 
from Oracle. The CDs are available for download for free but can't 
be redistributed by anyone.

> I do want to install it on RedHat 9 box. At
> present I am having the software of Oracle 8i(8.1.7)
> but unable to install it on RedHat 9 box. 
You'll need to install older versions glibc and other packages 
additionally to make these work with Redhat 9 apart from other 
mumbo-jumbo required to make Oracle work on linux. 

-Tarun Dua
http://www.tarundua.net


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[ilugd] TCL Training in Delhi

[Rajat Bhatia]

Hi,
   We are looking to organize a TCL Training for engineers at our 
office. The training would be held at either Gurgaon or Noida. Anyone 
interested or having a pointer to a good source please contact me 
offline at my email address.

Regards,
Rajat
General Business Information



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[ilugd] Please Provide Me CDs of Oracle 9i for Linux !!!

[Pankaj_Kumar\[JP\]DOEACC:N.Delhi]

Hi Everybody,
 Can any one provide me the software of Oracle 9i for
Linux ??? I do want to install it on RedHat 9 box. At
present I am having the software of Oracle 8i(8.1.7)
but unable to install it on RedHat 9 box. This oracle
was installed upto RedHat 8. So if any one is having
software of Oracle 9i for linux please contact me on
the following address ( in working days from 10am to
5pm ) or reply me on this email address immediately.I
will be much thankful to that person. Thanks in
advance and awaiting reply ...


=
Pankaj Kumar [Jr. Programmer] 
DOEACC Centre, 
B-86, Defence Colony, 
New Delhi-110024 India. 
Phone : +91-11-24330492, 51552064.

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Re: [ilugd] Re: Openoffice 1.1 RCs and other publishing questions

[Shuvam Misra]

Dear Sandip,

> Another question. The art of document layout and document styles in
> publications seems to be diffrent profession altogether. Is there any
> resource which can be looked at to find out more about this field?

Huge field, many hundreds of years old. I had the fortune to learn
some bits from a person who was an editor of a magazine and personally
passionate about typography and typesetting; he used to sit with the
printing press chaps when his magazine was "composed" on old Linotype and
Monotype machines. I find typography and typesetting lovely subjects. :)

Knuth (author of TeX) apparently had three PhD students doing work in
hyphenation algorithms alone. This is how complex the field is. I've
not been able to verify this story. :)

In general, page composition done by today's computer-literate crowd is of
very poor quality. Someone once said that modern WYSIWYG layout tools help
you "not to follow rules of good typesetting, but to break them." Even
among TeX users, I find a lot of blind following of defaults. For
instance, people just use Computer Modern, totally unaware of gems like
Imprint, Garamond, or Baskerville.  This leads to typesetting and font
selection which does not reflect the material's content.  Of course,
in the Windows world, the "Times New Roman" and the "Arial" and the
default styles are so depressing that the less said, the better.

If you can find any online resources, please let me know.

regards,
Shuvam


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Re: [ilugd] Openoffice 1.1 RCs and other publishing questions

[Shuvam Misra]

> . PDF are
> usually considered low resolution of what you will be getting. They are
> only good for previewing.

Not necessarily. I think a lot depends on the fonts. PDF files were
created (IIRC) to assist creating online formatted documents where file
sizes were important. But with the right vector definitions of images and
PS fonts, you can have near-arbitrary scale-up from a PDF file.

> As far as your printer is concerned, I think he is insisting on having a
> scanned copy of the ad because his software may not import PDF. Ask him
> if he can use PS files or better still check out if yourself if his
> software can import PS files.

Yes, good advice. :) This guy may not even know how to check, so you'd
better do the checking yourself.

> Again I should point out that if you convert your docs to PDFs and then
> convert to PS there will be a loss in quality.

Not sure how universally true this is. Can you give more details?

Shuvam


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Re: [ilugd] Openoffice 1.1 RCs and other publishing questions

[Shuvam Misra]

> One question that I wanted to ask guys into publishing in this list. How
> far does a PDF go into helping typesetting people? I mean yesterday I
> created a small ad in Openoffice for some occasion and exported it into
> PDF. I was of the impression that this was the input that the printing
> press people need. However, when I talked with the press guy (albeit a
> real small timer), he insisted on scanning a printout of the same, or a
> pagemaker document. Is it just this guys lack of knowledge or does PDFs
> only helps big time publishing houses?

This guy appears to be too small to know about PDF. He's probably the
kind of guy who believes "DTP" is synonymous with "Pagemaker", and
"computer" is synonymous with "Windows." I've seen slightly larger
publishing and printing houses (those big enough to do books and
magazines, not just flyers) totally dependent on Postscript, and now PDF.
They actually buy Postscript fonts costing lots of money, and do all
their page composition and galley proofs using high-end Postscript
engines, and distinguish between Postscript fonts optimised for different
printing engines (high speed printing presses and your "heavy duty" HP
laser printer will need different optimised versions of fonts to get the
same image), and so on. Quite a few of them use Macs for the back-end
work.

And these guys never use PageMaker on Windows. Many of them use Quark
Express, some use Frame Maker, etc.

Shuvam


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