Re: First Post! ?

[Dave Cross]

On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 09:28:16PM +0100, Jonathan Stowe ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Neil Ford wrote:
> 
> > Sorry. I just couldn't resist ;-)
> 
> Nah. Thats the gig, exercise everyones mailfilters

Hey. Result! Mine worked without changing anything!

Kudos to everyone involved in the changeover.

Dave...

-- 

  Don't dream it... be it


___
london.pm mailing list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
http://london.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/london.pm

Re: First Post! ?

[Dave Cross]

On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 11:30:13PM +0100, David Cantrell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 10:05:39PM +0100, Dave Cross wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 09:28:16PM +0100, Jonathan Stowe ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > > On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Neil Ford wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Sorry. I just couldn't resist ;-)
> > > 
> > > Nah. Thats the gig, exercise everyones mailfilters
> > 
> > Hey. Result! Mine worked without changing anything!
> 
> So what were you filtering on?  I filtered on Sender so have to run stuff
> through my filters again.

Hmmm...

It seems I have a number of london.pm recipes in procmail.rc. I think it's
probably the middle one of these which is currently working.

:0:
* ^TO_london-list
london-pm

:0:
* ^TO_london.pm
london-pm

:0:
* ^TO_london-pm
london-pm

Dave...

-- 

  Drugs are just bad m'kay


___
london.pm mailing list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
http://london.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/london.pm

Tonight

[Dave Cross]

OK, so we have a few volunteers for tonight. Here are the talks I'm
expecting to hear:

Dave Cross: Perl For The People
Marty Pauly: Using TT instead of h2xs
Leo Lapworth: Website Status Report
Robin Houston: Something Scary About Regexes
Leon Brocard: Something Cool Using Inline.pm

Have I forgotten anyone?

If there's enough demand, I'm happy to have another technical meeting next
month so people can practice more YAPC::E talks. Just let me know.

Oh, and there will be freebies tonight. I have copies of the new "Perl CD
Bookshelf" and "Effective AWK Programming" to give away to the most
deserving causes.

We'll start at 7pm.

Dave...

-- 

  .sig missing...

Fwd: [orwant@oreilly.com: Internet Quiz Show]

[Dave Cross]

Hey look, we're in the TPC quiz!

Dave...

- Forwarded message from Jon Orwant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -

Subject: Internet Quiz Show

Greetings,

We selected teams by the order in which they applied, and we've
now got our quota of five teams (four plus an alternate):

1. The President's Dog (London.pm)
2. Musician's Friends
3. Defending Champions
4. require 'pants'

and the alternate:

5. CPAN

I'll send rules out to all of you soon.  There will be some tweaks
from last year's format, but nothing too surprising.

If you're unable to field a team for whatever reason, it's no
biggie -- that's why we have an alternate.  Just let me know.

Regards,

-- 
Jon Orwant, Ph.D. orwant @ oreilly.com
CTO, O'Reilly & Associates, Inc.http://www.oreilly.com
90 Sherman St, Cambridge MA 02140   (617) 354-5800

- End forwarded message -

-- 

  .sig missing...

Hmmm...

[Dave Cross]

So I come home this evening to find 150 new emails from london.pm[1]

The vast majority of them were completely content-free. And I don't need
two (void)s in my live.

I contemplated unsubscribing, but came to my senses almost immmediately.

Dave...
[adding to the content-free stream]

[1] Incidently, why do london.pm and (void) go bursty at the same time?

-- 

  Drugs are just bad m'kay

Re: TT & new website

[Dave Cross]

On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 12:59:24PM -0400, Chris Devers ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 
wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Alex Page wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 07:08:37PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
> > 
> > > i think we should start using scientific notation for ages,
> > 
> > Better to use exponential ages, that way you have to be really
> > bothered to work it out...
> > 
> > Alex ( e ^ 3.09 today! [3sf])
>  
> Or offsets from the Unix epoch, for unspeakably nerdly obfuscation.

That would split us into two groups - +ve and -ve :)

Dave...

-- 

  .sig missing...

Re: Mailing list hack perpetrated

[Dave Cross]

On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 10:14:42AM -0700, Paul Makepeace 
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> I posted this a while back but it ended up in someone's bit bucket. Or at
> least I didn't get it back again.

Ah. That would be my bit bucket.

If penderel is down for any reason, there's an older DNS for london.pm.org
still running on hfb. On that box, all mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] goes to me.
So I can generally tell when penderel is fubar by the influx of email in my
mag-sol mailbox.

I've _think_ I've bounced all of today's back to the list, be I forgot to
do that when it happened a few days ago.

Dave...

-- 

  Drugs are just bad m'kay

Re: Mailing list hack perpetrated

[Dave Cross]

On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 12:20:36PM -0700, Paul Makepeace 
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 07:32:11PM +0100, Dave Cross wrote:
> > On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 10:14:42AM -0700, Paul Makepeace 
>([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > > I posted this a while back but it ended up in someone's bit bucket. Or at
> > > least I didn't get it back again.
> > 
> > Ah. That would be my bit bucket.
> > 
> > If penderel is down for any reason, there's an older DNS for london.pm.org
> > still running on hfb. On that box, all mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] goes to me.
> > So I can generally tell when penderel is fubar by the influx of email in my
> > mag-sol mailbox.
> > 
> > I've _think_ I've bounced all of today's back to the list, be I forgot to
> > do that when it happened a few days ago.
> 
> Can you[1] configure it to simply queue for redelivery to a higher priority
> MX? I.e. behave like a true 2ndary MX :)
> 
> 
> [1] or is that a [EMAIL PROTECTED] issue?

Er... probably. I guess. But that's a bit outside my area of expertise. 
Anoyne else know what we'd need the hfb people to do?

> It would be nice is london.pm.org had its own NS
> record...

I guess it would.

Dave...

-- 

  .sig missing...

Re: Web client application survey

[Dave Cross]

On Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 02:03:35PM -0400, Chris Devers ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 
wrote:
> At 05:15 AM 2001.07.02 -0400, Andy Williams wrote:
> >On Sun, 1 Jul 2001, Jonathan Stowe wrote:
> >
> >> On Sun, 1 Jul 2001, Paul Makepeace wrote:
> >> >
> >> > http://soldc.sun.com/polls/index.jshtml
> >>
> >> I forwarded your message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
> >
> >That seems to have done the trick:
> >
> >ASP11.1%
> >C, C++17.8%
> >JSP25.1%
> >PHP13.4%
> >Perl27.6%
> >other4.7%
> 
> Still climbing, as of 2pm edt, 2 jul 2001:
> 
> ASP 9.1% 
> C, C++  14.5% 
> JSP 20.5% 
> PHP 11.4% 
> Perl39.8% 
> other   4.4% 
> 
> Looks like Perl rose while every other one fell...

Yeah. Percentages do that :)

-- 

  Don't dream it... be it

Re: Tech Meeting Aftermath

[Dave Cross]

On Sat, Sep 22, 2001 at 10:40:38AM +0100, Paul Mison ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 21, 2001 at 08:59:10AM -0700, Dave Cross wrote:
> 
> > For those of your that weren't there, I've written a review in
> > my use.perl journal:
> > 
> > <http://use.perl.org/journal.pl?op=display&uid=18>
> 
> Snap. If you scroll down to the previous entry there's a bit about
> the BBC news feed script too.
> 
> http://use.perl.org/journal.pl?op=display&uid=1597

And I'm reliaboy informed that where there's a discrepancy between the 
running order in mine and Paul's versions, then Paul is right.

Hey ho.

Dave...

-- 

  Drugs are just bad m'kay

[ANNOUNCE]Tech Meeting - Sept 20th

[Dave Cross]

As promised, we will be having a technical meeting on Thursday 20th September.

Talks will include:

Mail::ListDetector - Michael Stevens
POD::Coverage - Michael Stevens & Richard Clamp
Wax::On Wax::Off - Mark Fowler & Richard Clamp
Some I can't remember (was it POE?) - Paul Mison
Parrot - Simon Cozens

As a change is as good as a rest, I've got a new venue. 

We'll be at Reading Room (www.readingroom.com)

Address: 1st Floor, 77 Dean Street, London W1D 3SH

Contact: Simon Wilcox

Phone: 07951 758698

Mapref: http://www.readingroom.net/contact/map.cfm?w=1
or: http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?P2M?P=w1d3sh&Z=1

If this stuff could make it onto the website then that would
be completely brilliant :)

Dave...

-- 

  Don't dream it... be it

Re: [ANNOUNCE]Tech Meeting - Sept 20th

[Dave Cross]

From: Neil Ford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/11/01 8:11:52 AM

>On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 07:08:48AM +0100, Dave Cross wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> As a change is as good as a rest, I've got a new venue. 
>> 
>> We'll be at Reading Room (www.readingroom.com)
>> 
>> Address: 1st Floor, 77 Dean Street, London W1D 3SH
>> 
>[snip]
>
>Is the projector required or do Reading Room have one?

I believe Simon mentioned to me on Thursday that they had a projector.

But, to be honest, I was a little drunk and it's difficult to
remember exactly what he said. He could have been telling me
that they have their own unicorn for all I know.

Dave...


-- 
<http://www.dave.org.uk>

Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

Re: (time_t)1E9 (was Re: Stuff)

[Dave Cross]

From: Rob Partington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/11/01 9:14:48 AM

>In message ,
>Cross David - dcross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> Er... StTW? Saturday's episode?
>> What are we talking about here?
>
>My guess is "Sabrina the Teenage Witch".  

D'oh! Of course. Should have worked that out. Now there's a _quality_
TV show :)

Dave...

p.s. Have you noticed that there was hardly any Buffy talk until
Randal pointed out that there was hardly any Buffy talk :)

p.p.s. I am currently the unbeaten London.pm BtVS Top Trumps
Champion! Challengers welcome.

-- 


Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

RE: Re: [ANNOUNCE]Tech Meeting - Sept 20th

[Dave Cross]

From: Neil Ford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/11/01 10:11:38 AM

>On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 09:50:42AM +0100, Simon Wilcox wrote:
>> On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Dave Cross wrote:
>> 
>> >
>> > I believe Simon mentioned to me on Thursday that they 
>> > had a projector.
>> 
>> We have a 42" plasma monitor which should be OK unless 
>> we have more than about 30 attendees.
>> 
>> No projector though.
>> 
> So would a quick show of hands (or similar and possibly 
> off-list) be a good idea so I know whether or not to lug 
> it in. Unfotunately just slinging it in the boot of the 
> car isn't quite so convenient for Dean Street :-)

IIRC[1], if we get more than 30 people, it'll all get a bit crowded
anyway. Let's do without the projector this month.

Dave...

[1] Which, as I pointed out earlier, is far from certain.

-- 
<http://www.dave.org.uk>

Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

Re: [ANNOUNCE]Tech Meeting - Sept 20th

[Dave Cross]

From: Richard Clamp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/11/01 10:20:38 AM

>On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 07:08:48AM +0100, Dave Cross wrote:
>> As promised, we will be having a technical meeting on 
>> Thursday 20th September.
>
> Start time?

7pm. As always :)

-- 
<http://www.dave.org.uk>

Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

Re: Disaster

[Dave Cross]

On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 03:24:55PM -0400, Chris Devers ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 
wrote:
>  
> Anyone heard from David Adler?

He's in Dublin with his parents.

-- 

  Don't dream it... be it

Re: [PUB] inappropriatley timed pub suggestion

[Dave Cross]

From: Simon Wistow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/12/01 7:56:43 AM

[Greg said:

>> Well from my point of view this is a bit too far north 
>> to get home from after the typical meeting. 
>
> Au contraire, to get to sunny Balham one should merely 
> catch the Victoria line and either change at Euston and 
> catch the Northern Line all the way there or change at 
> stockwell and join with the northern line at that point.

Well, of course, Greg isn't going to Balham (unless there's something
going on that I don't know about), but I'd probably get the tube
to Victoria and the train from there.

I'm happy to try this pub out, but I _do_ think that we should
be trying for something a little more central. All of us know
that it would be worth making the journey, but it might dissuade
new people from coming along.

Personally I think that with the incredible turnouts that we've
had over the last couple of months, it really shouldn't be too
hard to find a central London pub that will give us a private
room once a month.

Dave...

-- 


Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

RE: The day after the second Monday of the month

[Dave Cross]

From: Robin Houston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/13/01 4:36:30 PM

> 'Recently the International Day of Peace was moved from 
> the third Tuesday of September to the Tuesday following 
> the second Monday of September.'
>
> http://www.worldpeace.org/culture.html

$ cal 9 2001

So under the old rules, it would have been next Tuesday (18th),
but under the new rules, it's _this_ Tuesday. Not a particularly
peaceful day :(

Dave...

-- 


Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

Re: How's Hildo?

[Dave Cross]

On Thu, Sep 13, 2001 at 01:27:36PM -0700, Paul Makepeace ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 
wrote:
> Any word on the New York MSDW folk? I notice both their mailservers are
> hosed. Yikes.

According to Damian's webpage at ,
both Hildo and Phil Moore are safe and well.

Dave...

-- 

  Don't dream it... be it

dha

[Dave Cross]

dha and his parents were due to fly from Dublin to NY yesterday but have, instead,
returned briefly to London. He's asked if anyone would like to meet for lunch. I 
can't make it, but if anyone else wants to see him, he's at:

51, Buckingham Gate
London SW1E 6AF

Tel: +44 20 7769 7766
Fax: +44 20 7233 5014

Cheers,

Dave...

-- 

  Don't dream it... be it

Re: Fwd: FW: Call for Peace Petition following US attack...

[Dave Cross]

From: Matthew Byng-Maddick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/14/01 10:09:26 AM

>On Fri, Sep 14, 2001 at 09:48:11AM +0100, Denny John wrote:
>> >> - Forward this Portion to Friends -
>> >> CALL FOR PEACE!
>> >> http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/224622495
>
> Personally, I'd rather you didn't post forwards to this 
> list, 

Agreed. Although with the breadth of discussion that we have
on this list it's difficult to come up with any hard and fast
reason why this should be considered "off topic" :)

>   but that aside the wording is disgusting.

[snip]

As you know, normally I'm the first to wade into a good old political
discussion. I'm sure that there are a number of people on the
list that agree with your point off view and its obviously good
that the US binary view of the world doesn't go unchallenged,
but I'd really rather that this didn't explode into our usual
level of discussion.

Too many of us are still dealing with this incident on a personal
level for us to want to get into political discussion right now.
No-one will change their mind and it'll only lead to bad feeling.

Dave...
[who's lost count of the number of times that he's had to bite
his tongue when reading the bollox that passes for political
debate on #perl and perlmonks in the last few days]
-- 


Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

RE: Re: Fwd: FW: Call for Peace Petition following US attack...

[Dave Cross]

Matthew,

I have no problem at all with the content of you mails (In fact,
I'm pretty much in agreement with you). What I object to is the
timing. It's still far too close to the events to get into this
kind of discussion. Today, in particular, has been set aside
for mourning and reflection.

For the time being, please consider this topic closed. Please
_don't_ post any more follow-ups. This goes for everyone. I don't
often get heavy handed on this list, but I'll serious consider
unsubbing anyone who continues this discussion over the next
few days.

In the not too distant future, however, I hope that we can have
a discussion on the important points that you raise.

Dave...

-- 


Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

Re: Linux Format

[Dave Cross]

On Fri, Sep 14, 2001 at 02:08:59PM +0100, Simon Wilcox ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 
wrote:
> 
> For those who haven't seen it, the new issue of Linux Format has Charlie
> Stross's review of YAPC::Europe featured prominently on page 6.

And one of the few people who gets specific mention is Robin Houston :)

Dave...

-- 

  Don't dream it... be it

Re: Linux Format

[Dave Cross]

On Fri, Sep 14, 2001 at 04:23:11PM +, Redvers Davies ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > While we're waffling on about us lot getting reported on and stuff I
> > should point out that no-one else has pointed out that our nominal leader
> > has something about using 'tie' on perl.com.
> 
> I didn't notice that until you pointed it out.  What I did notice is that
> it plugged "Programming Perl" but not Dave's own DMWP.

The perils of writing for a web site owned by another publisher :(

Dave...

-- 

  Drugs are just bad m'kay

Re: Linux Format

[Dave Cross]

On Fri, Sep 14, 2001 at 05:24:54PM +0100, Ian McGilloway ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 
wrote:
> 
> -Original Message-
> >From: Mark Fowler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >
> >While we're waffling on about us lot getting reported on and stuff I
> >should point out that no-one else has pointed out that our nominal leader
> >has something about using 'tie' on perl.com.
> >
> >  http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2001/09/04/tiedhash.html
> 
> 
> presumably because he got there first... ;-)
> 
> 
> Thu 06/09/01
> > 
> > Excellent new article about tied hashes on perl.com
> > 
> > 
> > Dave...

Glad to see someone's awake :)

Dave...

-- 

  Drugs are just bad m'kay

RE: vague pub suggestion

[Dave Cross]

From: Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/17/01 8:43:30 AM

> It seems to me that almost any of the Davy's pub chain 
> would do. They do good food (and most serve it in the 
> early evening) and they have no music. They have a low 
> selection of beers etc., but what they do have is 
> reasonable.
>
> So all we need to do is find one that is central, has 
> easy access to toilets etc. and if we can hire a room, 
> that would be a bonus - i know the one in Croydon offers 
> free `snacks' for birthday parties etc.
>
> Thoughts?

Davy's sells port by the jug. This makes rounds very expensive
and encourages drunkeness :)

I doubt that there would be much chance of a TVR in there either.

I'd be happy to try one out tho'. If we wanted to do it for October,
we should make firm plans this week. Can someone try to organise
it.

Dave...

-- 


Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

RE: Evil Dave does Reginald Perrin

[Dave Cross]

From: Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/17/01 1:47:21 PM

> Just in case any of you thought Evil Dave was sane, he 
> has gone a bit Reginal Perrin and started a page problems 
> with his journeys on connex south,
>
>   http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/hall-of-shame/

Heh :)

I remember a conversation with him just before he started at
Kingswood pointing out that the trains would be his biggest problem.
British Rail[1] were the major cause of me giving up a really
good contract in Kingswood.

Dave...

[1] Or whatever they pretend to be called on that particular
route.

-- 


Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

RE: champagne

[Dave Cross]

From: Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/17/01 4:40:00 PM

> So what Champagne do you recommend? I know we have the 
> great and the good on the list and also the french (who 
> may be actually useful in this case). So what is the best 
> fizz?
>
> I prefer Veuve Clicquot, but thats me, so whats the best 
> reasonably priced fizz?

IMHO champagne is overrated and artificially overpriced[1]

I'm also mentally scarred by spending a large chunk of the 90s
working in the City where every wine bar was full of tossers
buying champagne to prove how stupidly well-paid they were[2].

There's an place in Australia where they make sparkling wine
using the same methods as the French (in fact it's run by someone
who used to be chief wine honcho in some French place) but, of
course, they can't call it champagne. It's just as good and far
cheaper - but unfortunately I can't remember the name.

Most of the time I'd just go for a nice cava as it's far less
poncy.

Dave...

[1] Actually that could be said to be true of _most_ French wine.

[2] And, yes, some of them were IT contractors but, no, noe of
them were me.
-- 


Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

RE: The best film of all time?

[Dave Cross]

From: Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/17/01 4:41:42 PM

> For me the best films of all time would be,
>
>   Its a wonderful life
>   Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid
>   The Rocky Horror Picture show
>   Highlander
>   Star Wars
>   One of the godfathers, not sure which
>   Moulon Rouge
>   and maybe the Exorcist

Not sure I agree aith _all_ of those, but let's move on :)

> but what are your top films? I ask because I feel the 
> need to buy some more DVDs soon.

I'd certainly include Pulp Fiction, Blade Runner, Monty Python
& The Holy Grail and Spinal Tap. Maybe Clockwork Orange.

I recently saw both Memento and Dancer In The Dark for the first
time and they were both great. It's a bit early to know if they
were all time classics, but I strongly suspect that Dancer In
The Dark will be.

Hmmm... no British films on that list so let's add Brassed Off,
Life Is Sweet, The Cook The Thief His Wife and Her Lover, and
This Years Love.

I've probably missed something obvious.

Oh, no Woody Allen or Hitchcock. Add Annie Hall and Vertigo.

Oh and The Big Sleep, Casablanca, and The African Queen.

And Breakfast At Tiffany's.

I'll stop now.

Dave...

-- 


Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

RE: Re: The best film of all time?

[Dave Cross]

From: Paul Mison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/17/01 5:14:04 PM

>>On Mon, Sep 17, 2001 at 04:41:42PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
>>> For me the best films of all time would be,
>>>
>>> Its a wonderful life
>
> Oh, please. It's so cheesy, and that's not just because 
> of its age. The sort of film you can only watch on 
> Christmas Eve, and that's because the months of crass 
> commercialism have turned your brain to sludge.

Paul,

I agreed with most of your comments, but this is a crime against
film criticism. "It's A Wonderful Life" is the finest film ever
made. Bar none.

You'll have Barry Norman spinning in his grave[1]!

Dave...

[1] I know :)

-- 


Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

RE: champagne/value/single malt/brandy , was Re: champagne

[Dave Cross]

From: Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/17/01 5:22:54 PM

>* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>> IMHO champagne is overrated and artificially overpriced[1]
>> 
>
> i sometimes think along similar lines, and while i like
> veuve clicquot, i realise that a similar amount can buy
> you a very nice bottle of single malt or brandy
>
> on the subject of brandy, its having a resurrgence in
> the mccarroll household (frightningly since i am now 
> married it is probably now the mccarroll household), most 
> recently i particularly enjoyed a bottle of
>
>Leopold Carrere Armagnac 1981
>
> i've got the (empty) bottle in front of me now to remind 
> me to get another soon
>
> now, i must admit, i know next to nothing about brandy,
> i know that calvados is apple/cider brandy and congnac is 
> champagne brandy, but thats about it
>
> any tips would be appreciated,

Did I ever tell you the story of how I accidently spent over
£100 on a bottle of brandy at Hong Kong airport? I'm told it's
very nice brandy (I don't drink brandy so I wouldn't know).

We've still got some left. Remind me to get it out the next time
you're round :)

Dave...

-- 
<http://www.dave.org.uk>

Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

Re: The best film of all time?

[Dave Cross]

On Mon, Sep 17, 2001 at 05:59:43PM +0100, Paul Mison ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> 
> So is anyone going to mention films from more than 10-20 years ago?

I thought I did (checks). Yeah, I did:

Annie Hall, Vertigo, The Big Sleep, Casablanca, African Queen, Breakfast
At Tiffany's.

And, of course, It's A Wonderful Life :)

Dave... 

-- 

  Drugs are just bad m'kay

Re: The best film of all time?

[Dave Cross]

On Mon, Sep 17, 2001 at 05:59:29PM +0100, Tony Bowden ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 
wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 17, 2001 at 09:04:41AM -0700, Dave Cross wrote:
> > I recently saw both Memento and Dancer In The Dark for the first
> > time and they were both great. 
> 
> Memento was excellent. Probably the best film I've watched this year.

Even tho' it had a plot hole you could drive a tank thru :)

Dave...

-- 

  Don't dream it... be it

Re: The worst film of all time (The best film of all time?)

[Dave Cross]

On Mon, Sep 17, 2001 at 05:52:17PM +0100, James Powell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 
wrote:
> How about the worst

Going for the unpopular vote :)

* Buffy The Vampire Slayer

* American Pie[1]

Dave...

[1] No, I don't care who did what with that f*cking flute!

-- 

  "Don't you boys know any _nice_ songs?"

NMS [formmail]

[Dave Cross]

I've just released a first draft of FormMail. It's at 



I would have put it in CVS on penderel, but it seems to be configured so
that only Greg can use it :)

Incidently, perlfaq9 says that when using sendmail from a Perl script, you
should use the flags "-oi -t -odq". I found that when I used -odq, the 
mail wasn't delivered. Any ideas why that might be?

Dave...

-- 

  Don't dream it... be it

Re: NMS [formmail]

[Dave Cross]

On Mon, Sep 17, 2001 at 06:09:21PM -0400, Chris Devers ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 
wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Sep 2001, Dave Cross wrote:
> 
> > I've just released a first draft of FormMail. It's at 
> > 
> > <http://www.dave.org.uk/nms/>
> 
> Trying trying again yep: 404 not found.
> 
> "You followed a broken or out-of-date link"

Er, yeah. It's

<http://www.dave.org.uk/scripts/nms/>

Sorry,

Dave...

-- 

  Don't dream it... be it

  Drugs are just bad m'kay


  .sig missing...


  .sig missing...


  Drugs are just bad m'kay


  .sig missing...


  Don't dream it... be it

RE: name of the bloke ......

[Dave Cross]

From: Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/18/01 8:14:10 AM

> Whats the name of the mad bloke who lives near Dave, you 
> know the one that things the BBC are reading his thoughts 
> as they are secret agents of MI5 or some such.

Mike Corley (aka Tadeusz Szocik).

And he lives near Clapham North - not as close to me as I originally
thought.

Dave...

-- 


Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

RE: Instant Messaging and all that Jazz

[Dave Cross]

From: Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/17/01 4:36:35 PM

> It also seems that this is a lot more linked to IM 
> (Instant messaging) than the web, after all it truly does 
> give you a dynamic online presence.
>
> So whats going to happen with all these things? The web 
> shopping, the personality management and the IM arena? 
>
> Does anyone have any thoughts?

I was reading a draft version of a new O'Reilly book last night.
It's called "Programming Jabber" and, on first impressions, looks
very interesting. It's by a new author called DJ Adams, anyone
heard of him?

> p.s. I'm willing to give a tech talk on this, if people 
> will forgive me for not being Perl orientated.

No offence, but I think we might have someone better qualified
in our midst[1].

Dave...

[1] Well, not actually our midst, but certainly in the area occasionally.

-- 


Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

Re: NMS [formmail]

[Dave Cross]

From: Sam Vilain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/18/01 9:49:42 AM

> I hear that one problem with that script is the security 
> problem that if it is not altered, then it is possible to 
> send mail from any address, effectively allowing you to 
> spam with it.

In the latest version of FormMail (1.9, released August 2001[1])
there's a new security feature, an array called @recipients which
defines the valid set of recipients for the mail. This is meant
to prevent spam being sent using the script.

I've incorporated this fix in my version, so feel free to take
a look and see what you think.

> What I suggest for NMS scripts is that they have an 
> internal configuration function, whereby the script will 
> refuse to run unless it is configured. In fact, if it is 
> unconfigured, then present a configuration interface,
> unless they can't find an appropriate place writable to 
> store configuration.  In that case, instructions are 
> presented for logging into their ftp account and making a 
> world-writable directory for the script to write to 
> (perhaps this could be a URL to a NMS help system), or
> instructions for manually customising the script to close 
> security holes etc.
>
> Sound good?

Happy to consider things like this as long as they don't violate
the overriding rules of NMS.

1/ Drop in replacements for MSA. Nothing harder to use than in
the MSA versions.

2/ Runs using only features and modules available with the standard
distribution of Perl 5.004_04.

If you have a plan, please let me know.

Dave...

[1] He seems to be updating things a little more often recently.

-- 


Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

RE: [JOB] Programmer for database-driven websites

[Dave Cross]

From: Simon Batistoni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/18/01 12:19:29 PM

> Well, these sorts of posts are scarcer than they used to 
> be, but I figure someone here might be interested in 
> this, or know someone outside the hallowed london.pm 
> circle who would be. :)

[snip]

Gotta love that synchronicity :)

Simon meet Leon, Leon meet Simon!

Dave...

-- 


Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

RE: ISDN 2e Card

[Dave Cross]

From: Andy Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/18/01 8:58:10 AM

> I have just made the jump from the Bronze Age (modem) to 
> the Iron Age (ISDN) and need an ISDN 2e PCI card that 
> supports both Linux and Windoze 98/2000... anyone have a 
> recommendation of what sort of card I should get?

I don't use cards, I have an external terminal adapter - they're
much easier to configure and (usually) give you a couple of analogue
phone points as well.

I'm currently using an old Pace TA which is, unfortuately, no
longer available. The one you seem to see in the shops these
days is the Hayes Accura TA. Don't buy this as it doesn't work
with Linux. I know this from bitter experience.

Dave...

-- 


Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

Re: The best film of all time?

[Dave Cross]

From: Redvers Davies <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/18/01 2:37:31 PM

> Most if not all of my top films have been mentioned 
> already...

[snip]

> the breakfast club

A great film right up to the ending where the interesting (and
every so slightly gothic) Ally Sheedy character is convinced
that her life would be oh-so-much better if she only wore some
makeup and had a prettier hairstyle.

> shock treatment [0]

> [0] or at least it would be if I could find ANYWHERE 
> where I could buy it on DVD (or VCD).



I once knew someone who'd seen it. He even had the soundtrack
album.

Have this vague memory about seeing Richard O'Brien interviewed
somewhere recently where he mentioned the possibility of making
a sequel to RHPS. This made me wonder if Shock Treatment has
been officially Removed From History.

Dave...

-- 


Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

Re: The best film of all time?

[Dave Cross]

>And me only 100 years old too [1].
>
>Simon.
>
>[1] In base 4. (ooh, thread flashback !)

4^0 = 1, 4^1 = 4, 4^2 = 16

Er... shome mishtake shurely?

Dave...
[who could well be mistaken here]

-- 


Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

Re: Mail bounce, grumble grumble...

[Dave Cross]

On Tue, Sep 18, 2001 at 10:54:04PM +0100, Matthew Byng-Maddick 
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 18, 2001 at 09:32:13PM +, Redvers Davies wrote:
> > Sorry to send this to the list.  I tried to write privatly to a
> > member of the list and their MTA hates me (sob). [0]
> 
> Well, according to someone on exim-users (who I've been in a flamewar
> with - just for a change):
> http://www.exim.org/pipermail/exim-users/Week-of-Mon-20010917/030167.html
> 
> | > > I never make any exceptions for problems that are not my own.  If some
> | > > sender has a broken MTA or DNS configuration then they can fix it if
> | > > they want to send me e-mail.
> | > This attitude unfortunately doesn't work. Which is a pity.
> | I thin you need to re-read my message.  My approach to this problem
> | definitely does work.  It has worked in every single instance.  There
> | have been no exceptions whatsoever.  It is guaranteed to work, in fact!
> | You simply have to lay down the rules and if people really want to send
> | you e-mail they will fix their configurations whether they think it's
> | necessary or not.  If they don't want to send you e-mail then you don't
> | have to worry about it.
> 
> It doesn't *hate* you yet. The log suggests "irritated=28000ms". Hate is
> when it gets to furious (around 60ms).
> 
> > [0] BIG pet hate.  ISP's deciding what mail a customer is allowed to recieve.
> 
> My ISP doesn't. Colon does. It's my machine. Using SAUCE is the only way I'm
> happy to advertise my address on the public internet.
> 
> An MX record should point to a canonical name, not a DNS alias.
> | [mbm@colon]:~$ adnshost -t mx- madhouse.org.uk
> | madhouse.org.uk MX 20 mail.madhouse.org.uk
> | [mbm@colon]:~$ adnshost mail.madhouse.org.uk
> | mail.madhouse.org.uk CNAME insanity.madhouse.org.uk
> | insanity.madhouse.org.uk A INET 195.74.114.69
> 
> what is wrong with either:
> (a)
>  madhouse.org.uk  IN MX 20 mail.madhouse.org.uk
>  mail.madhouse.org.uk IN A 195.74.114.69
>  insanity.madhouse.org.uk IN A 195.74.114.69
> 
> or (b)
>  madhouse.org.uk  IN MX 20 insanity.madhouse.org.uk
>  insanity.madhouse.org.uk IN A 195.74.114.69
> 
> Please fix it, then you'll have no problems sending me email. :-)
> 
> Your mail server will also need a reverse DNS:
> | [mbm@colon]:~$ adnshost -i 195.74.114.69
> | 69.114.74.195.in-addr.arpa does not exist
> 
> You have nameservers (according to ripe) at ns.enta.net and ns.webstash.com
> providing the zone for 114.74.195.in-addr.arpa.
> 
> (I'm sorry I'm doing this, I want some ammo that the argument presented in
>  the email I have just doesn't work, mainly to satisfy myself, as I don't
>  intend to carry on that flamewar... :-)

Ah, well this would explain why mail I sent you last week bounced too.

I have exactly the opposite view to the person on the Exim list. If I
send someone mail and for some reason their MTA is configured to believe
that my mail isn't worth receiving then that's _their_ problem.

And IIRC, the message I got back wsn't exactly enlightening.

Dave...

-- 

  Don't dream it... be it

[ANNOUNCE]Technical Meeting Reminder

[Dave Cross]

A brief reminder about this week's technical meeting. It's this Thursday
(20th) at Reading Room, 1st Floor, 77 Dean St, W1D 3SH. We'll start at
7pm.

Talks:

Mail::ListDetector - Michael Stevens
XML & RSS - Paul Mison
POD::Coverage - Michael Stevens & Richard Clamp
Java - Leaon Brocard
Wax::On Wax::Off - Mark Fowler & Richard Clamp
Parrot - Simon Cozens.

See you thare,

Dave...

-- 

  .sig missing...

RE: Pub examination - Three Cups - tonight (Weds 19 Sept)

[Dave Cross]

From: Kate L Pugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/19/01 11:20:43 AM

> Hello.
>
> Some of us are going to check out the Three Cups in 
> Holborn tonight, in the hope that it will be a Nice Pub 
> where we can have future social meets. We are planning to 
> get there at around 7pm. Please come and join us if you 
> are free.
>
> To get there, come out of the read-only exit from Holborn 
> tube and turn right down High Holborn. Before you get to 
> the PO, there is a street off to the left called Red Lion 
> Street. Go down here and take the first right into 
> Sandland Street. It doesn't look much like a street at 
> the moment as it is clogged up with construction stuff. 
> Then there is a little street off to the left and if you 
> take that you will see the Three Cups in front of you.
>
> Here is the streetmap arrow.
>
> http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M?X=530778&Y=181722&A=Y

Isn't that the place we went to after Damian's Q::S talk? If
not, it's very close to it. That place was nice, but very small[1].
And it had a good Indian just over the road.

Dave...

[1] Of course, I could be wrong as I was very, very drunk that
night.

-- 


Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

RE: Re: Pub examination - Three Cups - tonight (Weds 19 Sept)

[Dave Cross]

From: robin szemeti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/19/01 1:59:39 PM

>On Wednesday 19 September 2001 13:29, David Cantrell wrote:
>> On Wed, Sep 19, 2001 at 12:31:16PM +0100, alex wrote:
>> > has anyone suggested quinns yet?
>> >
>> > between kentish town and camden, excellent selection 
>> > of beers from various countries, inc non-pasteurised 
>> > ones, large enough, friendly, nice.
>>
>> I've been there, it's quite nice.  It's also Oop North 
>> and consequently a bit of a pain for plenty of people.  
>> We need somewhere central.
>
> Observation notes:
>
> Most of populace: 'oop north' -> 'the north of england, 
> lake district, scottish borders'
>
> Scott: 'oop north' -> 'wester ross, cape wrath, ullapool 
> and environs'
>
> Londoner: 'oop north' -> 'camden town, kentish town'  
> (note map of the area north of there simply marked 'Here 
> Be Dragons!'
>
> ;))

You forgot

South Londoner: 'oop north' -> anywhere the other side of the
river.

Dave...

-- 


Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

RE: Re: Pub examination - Three Cups - tonight (Weds 19 Sept)

[Dave Cross]

From: Matthew Byng-Maddick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/19/01 2:20:50 PM

> note the low numbers they are lower the closer into the 
> centre you get. I would, however consider Finchley, 
> Barnet and Watford to be 'oop north'.

This is, of course, nonsense. With the excection of '1', post
codes in the various sectors are numbered alphabetically.

> Of course, I wouldn't ever choose to live 'darn sarf', 
> and going South of the River always needs a sense of 
> adventure for me. After all, they've barely heard of 
> public transport... :-)

You know, I thought like that once. I lived happily north of
the river for five years. I moved south fifteen years ago and
I'd never consider moving back.

I think it's largely the fact that so many north londoners refuse
to come here :)

Dave...

-- 


Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

Re: Pub examination - Three Cups - tonight (Weds 19 Sept)

[Dave Cross]

From: Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/19/01 3:11:07 PM

>* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>> 
>> South Londoner: 'oop north' -> anywhere the other side 
>> of the river.
>
> For instance, balham might be a good place for a 
> london.pm meet ;-)

Exactly. Can't think of any reason at all why anyone would object
to a meeting there.

I put _myself_ out every month, trudging over the river _especially_
to come to the meetings. It's time you all came to my side of
the river :)

Dave...

-- 
<http://www.dave.org.uk>

Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

Re: Pub examination - Three Cups - tonight (Weds 19 Sept)

[Dave Cross]

From: Kate L Pugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/20/01 1:38:39 PM

>On Wed 19 Sep 2001, Kate L Pugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Some of us are going to check out the Three Cups in 
>> Holborn tonight, in the hope that it will be a Nice Pub 
>> where we can have future social meets.
>
> And we did, and here are some details. First the 
> checklist.

[detail snipped]

> Total score 4 + beer score. This seems a lot; maybe I am 
> weighting it too much because of the function room.

[loo details snipped]

> The managers are very friendly. They only took over the 
> place a week ago, at very short notice, hence the food 
> menu not being entirely sorted out yet. They hope to get 
> it sorted soon; but in any case they would certainly be 
> able to do things other than chips and burgers if we 
> booked the function room (ie advance notice).
>
> There is no bar in the function room; the suggestions 
> they gave for getting around this include selling us beer 
> in multiple-pint jugs and wine in bottles; us ringing 
> down to the bar with our drink orders; them coming up 
> every so often to check if we want more drinks. I assume
> we would also be free to trundle up and down the stairs 
> ourselves.

Well done team. An excellent report.

On the basis of this I'm quite happy to recommend that we try
out the Three Cups for the October meeting. Can someone in the
area please check out the function room's availability on Thurs
Oct 4th.

Dave...

-- 


Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

RE: Pubs

[Dave Cross]

From: Jonathan McKeown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/20/01 2:06:00 PM

> I know I'm joining this discussion a little late, but...
>
> PO is central, has plenty of space, a good choice of 
> beers at reasonable prices, and adequate food (except, I 
> gather, for vegetarians for whom the choice is apparently 
> limited). Are we unhappy with PO as a venue for socials 
> for any reason other than that Wetherspoons have agreed to
> distribute information about the Euro from the anti camp?

There are many reasons for note liking the PO. The main one seems
to be that it's simply not true that there is enough space. This
month's meeting was an indication of things to come between now
and Christmas. We won't get the downstairs bar as it will be
booked up with Christmas parties and the ground floor bar will
get busier each month. In January it will be empty again. They
won't let us book the downstairs bar as they make more money
from larger corporate groups.

On top of that, many people seem to think that it's not a particularly
nice pub. It's very bland. Wetherspoons put a lot of effort into
making all their pubs identical - shame they amde them all uniformly
unpleasant.

[other should feel free to chime in with their comments at this
point]

> Is that a sufficient reason to rule PO out as a venue, 
> and is that a majority view?

I suspect that there aren't a majority of members who would boycott
Wetherspoons because of their Euro stance. I do think, however,
that if only a few member would refuse to go there, then that's
a good reason for not having meetings there.

> I'm not trying to start a political discussion/flamewar, 
> and I don't think we need go to the same place each 
> month - I just wondered what was the driving force for 
> change.

I _like_ the idea of having a permanent home (even if we don't
go there _every_ month). If we can find a nice pub that will
give us a function room every month then that sounds good to
me.

However, we are (vaguely) democratic round these parts, so I'm
happy to entertain alternative points of view.

Dave...

-- 


Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

RE: Re: Can't remember where I saw this

[Dave Cross]

From: Kirrily Robert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/20/01 4:15:43 PM

> In lists.community.perlmongers.london, you wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > I'm looking for a document that I read recently and 
> > can't remeber where I got it.  It was collected wisdom 
> > for CPAN authors, things to consider when writing 
> > modules. It _may_ have been compiled by Skud.
> >
> > Does any body have any idea which docu,ment I'm talking 
> > about or where I could find a copy?
>
> http://infotrope.net/opensource/perl6/modules/ is one 
> place.

Actually, that should be:



Dave...

-- 


Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

Friday Morning Fun

[Dave Cross]

This foxed a few people here yesterday.

After running the following code, what does $i contain (and explain
your answer).

  $i=1,2;

My experience is that most people first get the right answer
for the wrong reason, then the wrong answer for the right(ish)
reason and finally the right anser for the right reason.

I'm thinking I might include it as a question the next time I'm
asked to to a Perl interview :)

Dave...

-- 


Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

RE: Re: Friday Morning Fun

[Dave Cross]

From: "Peter Haworth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/21/01 11:25:57 AM

>On Fri, 21 Sep 2001 03:16:53 -0700, Dave Cross wrote:
>> After running the following code, what does $i contain (and
explain
>> your answer).
>> 
>>   $i=1,2;
>> 
>> My experience is that most people first get the right 
>> answer for the wrong reason, then the wrong answer for 
>> the right(ish) reason and finally the right anser for 
>> the right reason.
>
> Bah! I missed stage 1.

Actually, I think that stage 1 usually comes from people who
have run the code and are trying to explain the results.

Dave...

-- 
<http://www.dave.org.uk>

Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

RE: Re: Friday Morning Fun

[Dave Cross]

From: Robin Houston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/21/01 11:40:41 AM

> What's the other erroneous answer? Is it to confuse lists 
> with arrays _and_ to get the precendence muddled, so that 
> you not only believe that statements parses as C<$i =(1, 
> 2)> but also believe that the value of $i will thereby 
> come to be the length of the list on the RHS?

Hmmm... haven't heard that interpretation yet.

> If that's it, the question could be C<$i=1,3> so that the 
> different interpretations would all result in different 
> outcomes.

True. And something to bear in mind when using the question in
interviews :)

No, the "stage 1" reasoning that I refered to was that $i is
equal to 1 because the comma operator returns its left-hand operand.
This gives the right answer for the wrong reason.

Dave...

-- 


Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

Re: Friday Morning Fun

[Dave Cross]

From: Kate L Pugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/21/01 12:11:47 PM

> I figured it out by going and checking the docs for the 
> comma operator. Is that cheating?

I think it's cheating a _little_ bit. You only lookied it up
because the way I asked the question implied that there was a
trick to it. If you'd come across the code in a script (like
we did) then you'd probably have sat there scratching your head
for a while (like we did).

Dave...

-- 


Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

RE: Re: Friday Morning Fun

[Dave Cross]

From: Jonathan McKeown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/21/01 1:27:03 PM

> I'm still intrigued to know what your middle stage was 
> (wrong answer for rightish reason).

To clarify, the sequence I had in mind went something like this:

1/  Hmmm... why is $x set to 1. Oh, I know. That's
a comma operator, it returns the left-hand operand in scalar
context. It must do. That's the only possible explanation.

2/  Hmmm... but the docs say it returns the _right-hand_
operator. So that must mean that $i is set to 2. I must have
run the code wrong or something. ... bugger... still
1.

3/   Aha!

There is, of course, as Robin pointed out, also the possibility
that at about stage 2 much time is wasted assuming that 2 is
the number of elements in the list instead of the last element.

Oh, and japhy's just posted this nice alternative on PerlMonks
(where we've also been discussing this)

@array = 1, 2, 3, 4;

What does @array hold?

Dave...

-- 


Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

German Perl Workshop 2002

[Dave Cross]

It's time to start thinking about talks :)



Dave...

-- 


Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

Re: Friday Morning Fun

[Dave Cross]

From: Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/21/01 2:20:35 PM

>* william ross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>> 
>> $i = 1,2;
>> 
>> would assign 1 to $i and then forget about that and 
>> assign 2 to $i.
>
> You really shouldn't of said that, i'm sure someone will 
> now want to work this syntax/behaviour into Perl 6 (don't 
> ask me why, i've still got a little sanity left ;-) )

ObGrammarCorrection: s/of/have/;

No need to change anything. We'll just tell 'em that's what

$i = (1, 2);

does. No-one will ever know the difference :)

Dave...

-- 


Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

RE: Re: Re: Friday Morning Fun

[Dave Cross]

From: Matthew Byng-Maddick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/21/01 2:32:12 PM

>> There is, of course, as Robin pointed out, also the 
>> possibility that at about stage 2 much time is wasted 
>> assuming that 2 is the number of elements in the list 
>> instead of the last element.
>
> I realised this wasn't the case, because that would 
> require parentheses.

Oops. Wrong. Parentheses would have made it a _list_ which still
returns the last element. I think you're confusing arrays and
lists.

>Oh well, how well would I have done in the interview? :-)

Fine... right up to that last bit :)

Dave...

-- 


Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

RE: Re: Friday Morning Fun

[Dave Cross]

From: Piers Cawley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/21/01 4:07:32 PM

> And the programmer who perpetrated said code would be 
> receiving a stiff talking to.

I should point out that the code in question was originally a
typo. The code should have said:

$var = $something . $something_else;

But the dot had become a comma at some point :)

Dave...

-- 


Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

RE: Tech Meeting Aftermath

[Dave Cross]

From: Dean Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/21/01 10:36:45 AM

> Thanks to the speakers last night, a good mix of subjects 
> and they were all enjoyable. Nice to see the speakers 
> weren't thrown by the boundless audience participation, 
> esp Wax::On Wax::Off which seemed to go really well 
> despite all the technical problems the speakers had to 
> worry about.
>
> Also can we get the slides from Paul's talk?
>
> Also thanks to Reading Room, nice offices!

It certainly seemed that everyone enjoyed it, despite being crammed
a little more tightly than we might have wanted :)

For those of your that weren't there, I've written a review in
my use.perl journal:



Dave...

-- 


Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

Re: Pub examination - Three Cups - tonight (Weds 19 Sept)

[Dave Cross]

From: Kate L Pugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/21/01 4:17:20 PM

>On Thu 20 Sep 2001, Dave Cross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On the basis of this I'm quite happy to recommend that 
>> we try out the Three Cups for the October meeting. Can 
>> someone in the area please check out the function room's 
>> availability on Thurs Oct 4th.
>
> [and last night I volunteered to do the booking]
>
> OK, the function room is booked for 6pm on Thursday 4 
> October (if people want to go along earlier than this, 
> the downstairs bar is also a fine place for a pint).

Excellent. Thanks very much for that.

> Have I done anything wrong or forgotten anything 
> important?

Nope. You've done good work. I strongly suspect that everyone
will want to buy you a beer.

Dave...


-- 
<http://www.dave.org.uk>

Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

Best Films?

[Dave Cross]

Coincidently, Empire has just published the results of a readers
poll on the best films of all time:



Dave...

-- 


Mention The Lord of the Rings just once more and I'll more than
likely kill you,
"Moorcock! Moorcock! Michael Moorcock!" you fervently moan.
   - Half Man Half Biscuit (Dickie Davies Eyes)

Re: Mad Training Book, was Re: Java training.

[Dave Cross]

From: Mark Fowler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/24/01 3:33:09 PM

>On Mon, 24 Sep 2001, Lucy McWilliam wrote:
>
>> Mr Bunny's Big Cup o' Java ;-)
>
> I charge Greg with the role of writing the equivilant 
> book for Perl. Though you can all chip in I suspect after 
> the first draft.
>
> Oh god, what have I started.

IIRC this was discussed in some depth on the advocacy list a
few months ago.

Nothing happened.

Dave...

-- 


"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

RE: Re: Calculators and School Days

[Dave Cross]

From: Redvers Davies <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/25/01 12:29:56 PM

>> This is perhaps the one draw back of Perl - you very 
>> seldom face classical (computer science or maths) style 
>> problems, as someone has already done it on CPAN. 
>
> I agree... I've only had need once to go back to my 
> mathamatics stuff and that was when I was designing my 
> business logo.  The logo consists of two gears 
> intertwined with an integration sign holding the two
> together.
>
> I had endless fun writing trig functions to model that.  
> Ah, memories :)

GIF! GIF!

Dave

ps. so will messages posted last night eventually appear, or
will I have to resend my "Charlie's Angels" rant?

-- 


"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

RE: Re: Film Recommendatio : A Knight's Tale

[Dave Cross]

From: Tony Bowden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/25/01 2:53:48 PM

>On Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 05:11:03PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
>>  American High School Drama
>>  Films-ish:  The Breakfast Club, Pretty in Pink, 
>>  Ferris Bueller, etc.
>
> Unless this is actually "John Hughes American High School 
> Drama" you really need to add Heathers ...

Better still, _replace_ Ferris Bueller with Heathers so they'd
all be _watchable_ films :)

>>  Roman Night
>>  Film-ish:   Spartacus, Gladiator, etc.
>
> Life of Brian?

Ben Hur? Cleopatra?

Dave...
[getting his coat]

-- 


"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

RE: Re: Film Recommendatio : A Knight's Tale

[Dave Cross]

From: Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/25/01 3:20:35 PM

>* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>> 
>> Better still, _replace_ Ferris Bueller with Heathers so 
>> they'd all be _watchable_ films :)
>
> *gasp* *gasp* *gasp*
>
> Shurely your not suggesting Ferris Bueller is a an 
> unwatchable film? I realise that after leading London.pm 
> for so long you may side with the authoritarian figures 
> (the teachers) in the film, but to say its 
> unwatchable .. sheesh.

Well I know that which films you like is a personal thing, but
I can't honestly believe that anyone enjoyed that pile of nonsense.

As unwatchable films go it's right up there with "Charlie's Angels",
"American Pie" and "Gladiator". I'd rather watch something by
Andy Warhol :)

Dave...

-- 
<http://www.dave.org.uk>

"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

Re: Film Recommendatio : A Knight's Tale

[Dave Cross]

From: "David H. Adler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/25/01 3:56:15 PM

>On Tue, Sep 25, 2001 at 07:44:19AM -0700, Dave Cross wrote:
>> 
>> As unwatchable films go it's right up there with
>> "Charlie's Angels", "American Pie" and "Gladiator". I'd 
>> rather watch something by Andy Warhol :)
>
> Now I *know* you're lying... :-)

Well, maybe the Warhol thing is a bit of an exaggeration which
may have weakened the main thrust of my argument.

But the rest of it's true.

Dave...

-- 
<http://www.dave.org.uk>

"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

RE: RE: Re: Film Recommendatio : A Knight's Tale

[Dave Cross]

From: Simon Wilcox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/25/01 5:10:08 PM

>On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Dave Cross wrote:

[Ferris Bueller]

>> As unwatchable films go it's right up there with
>> "Charlie's Angels", "American Pie" and "Gladiator". I'd 
>> rather watch something by Andy Warhol :)
>
> Charlie's Angels is watchable, if you mean the recent one 
> with Drew Barrymore and those other two in it ;-)

That was the one I meant. My rant about this was apparently eaten
by the mail outage last night.

Greg recently persuaded me that this wasn't as bad as I thought
it would be, so I watched it. He was _so_ wrong. Personally I
need a bit more than 90 minutes of vaguely attractive young women
doing kung fu in order to enjoy a film :)

> I happen to think Gladiator is a great movie, 

Again, it's a personal thing, but I like a bit of characterisation
and some decent acting. Oh, and a plot that isn't completely
explained in the strapline!

Dave...

-- 
<http://www.dave.org.uk>

"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

RE: Re: RE: Re: Film Recommendatio : A Knight's Tale

[Dave Cross]

From: "David H. Adler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/25/01 4:26:44 PM

>On Tue, Sep 25, 2001 at 08:22:09AM -0700, Dave Cross wrote:

[about Charlie's Angels]
 
>> Greg recently persuaded me that this wasn't as bad as I 
>> thought it would be, so I watched it. He was _so_ wrong. 
>> Personally I need a bit more than 90 minutes of vaguely 
>> attractive young women doing kung fu in order to enjoy a 
>> film :)
>
> See, now, I happen to think there's more to it than 
> that.  It's got a sense of humor about itself, if nothing 
> else.  It's also possible that I got exposed to the 
> original series more than those of you over the other
> side of the pond, so may have some odd kind of 
> appreciation for it.

WARNING - The following is getting dangerously close to being
a rant :)

I saw _plenty_ of the series as I was growing up. I still enjoy
it today. But only because it's an artifact of it's time. 25
years ago the majority of people _did_ think of women as clothes
horses. I just get depressed that in the year 2000 we're making
films that still perpertuate those ideas. There _are_ people
who will argue that it's some kind of "post-feminist", "girl
power" story when, in fact, it's the kind of thing that puts
back the women's movement by a good fifteen years. Here's Joe
Queenan writing on that very subject at the time the film came
out:

"One might even argue that the film has an artfully concealed
feminist subtext, since the three women not only outmuscle the
men in the movie but outact them (Matt LeBlanc is invisible,
Bill Murray wasted, Tim Curry his usual ham self, Tom Green completely
useless, and Sam Rockwell, the kidnap victim, entirely one-dimensional.)

"Alas, the scene where Diaz lovingly studies her gyrating derriere
in a wall-to-ceiling mirror and the numerous sequences where
the twin peaks of Mount Barrymore seem to be erupting from her
blouse, gown, swimsuit or blanket make it difficult to advance
such a theory. Having had an entire paragraph to reconsider the
matter, I don't know why I even bothered."

Tho' I should point out that Queenan enjoyed the film despite
that. I can't.

> Also, having listened to the commentary on the dvd, it's 
> nice to know that, although it may not be obvious from 
> the film, the director actually has some kind of clue...

I agree with you one that. He did sound like he knew what he
was doing.

> Besides, Cameron Diaz has *such* a lovely smile...

She's a very talented comic actor and aftr seeing "Being John
Malchovich[sp?]" I have great hopes for her. This doesn't, of
course, mean that every film she's in will be worth watching.

Dave...
[getting off his soap-box now]

-- 
<http://www.dave.org.uk>

"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

RE: Re: Film Recommendatio : A Knight's Tale

[Dave Cross]

From: Kate L Pugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 9/27/01 10:39:41 AM

>On Wed 26 Sep 2001, Mike Jarvis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> There are good american beers and chocolates.  You're 
>> just not very likely to get either one over there.
>> 
>> Ghirardelli makes decent chocolate.
>
> The chocolate syrup at Starbucks is made by Ghirardelli. 
> It's nice.

IIRC a number of us visited a Ghirardelli shop on Cannery Row
in Monterey last summer. We liked it.

It was a dha's idea.

Dave...

-- 


"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

[ANNOUNCE]Social Meeting This Thursday

[Dave Cross]

A brief reminder the we're having a social meeting this Thursday.
IT IS NOT AT PENDERELS OAK!!

We are trying a new pub (very close to the PO) called the Three
Cups. See 
for details. We have a private room booked from 6:30pm.

Many thanks to Kake for organising this. Please show your appreciation
by buying her beer.

Dave...

-- 


"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

RE: Recommended agents

[Dave Cross]

From: Simon Wilcox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 10/1/01 11:01:07 AM

> Does anyone have any good recommendations from the 
> recruiting side rather than the candidate side [2] ?

>[2] I suspect there would be a large overlap however.

IMO there is a large overlap. I'd recommend companies like Harvey
Nash, Elan and ERS. I'd avoid at all costs MSB, Computer People
and Computer Futures.

hth,

Dave...

-- 


"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

Re: Recommended agents

[Dave Cross]

From: Paul Makepeace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 10/1/01 11:29:50 AM

> On Mon, Oct 01, 2001 at 10:01:07AM +0100, Simon Wilcox wrote:
> > So I still need a permenent linux/apache/samba 
> > sysadmin, the people I've spoken to offlist either want 
> > to be perl developers or work on contract
>
> What is for you the advantage of a perm. sysadmin versus 
> a very responsive contractor? By "very responsive" I mean 
> a contractor with whom you've entered into an SLA, e.g. 
> 30min hour problem acknowledgement from cell call within 
> business hours.

In my experience this is likely to be a PHB-imposed restriction.
They seem to thing that permies are more likely to be "company
men" and will be more easily cajoled into doing things beyond
the call of duty for the love of the company.

Of course, they also seem to be more likely to carry pagers 24x7
for no extra money - whereas no sane contractor would consider
such a thing :)

Dave...

-- 


"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

Re: Recommended agents

[Dave Cross]

From: Paul Makepeace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 10/1/01 12:43:05 PM

>On Mon, Oct 01, 2001 at 04:32:50AM -0700, Dave Cross wrote:
> > In my experience this is likely to be a PHB-imposed 
> > restriction. They seem to thing that permies are more 
> > likely to be "company men" and will be more easily 
> > cajoled into doing things beyond the call of duty for 
> > the love of the company.
>
> Hmm, clearly these last few years have taught these 
> people nothing.

Mind you, I _have_ seen permies put ridiculous amounts of work
for little or no material reward[1].

I used to think that company loyalty went out of fashion 20 years
ago, but most of the employees here (Acxiom) seem to have been
here for almost ten years. That's something that I never thought
I'd see again.

Dave...

[1] Hope all the QXL employees who were doing 48 and 72-hour
stints whilst I was working 8-hour days cashed in their share
options _before_ the price fell to 10p.

-- 
<http://www.dave.org.uk>

"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

RE: Politics on London.pm

[Dave Cross]

From: Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 10/1/01 4:03:39 PM

> For the first time ever, i think there should be a topic 
> made off topic on London.pm. This is not due to any one 
> post, but its due to the huge percentage of politics 
> threads recently.
>
> Now this may be a passing thing, so maybe it should be a 
> temporary ban, i.e no-politics October for London.pm.

Sorry Greg, but I disagree. The very fact that we get so many
politics threads and a reasonably large number of people joining
in seems to indicate to me that a lot of people enjoy them.

If you don't enjoy them then please feel free to ignore them.

Dave...

-- 


"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

Re: Politics on London.pm

[Dave Cross]

From: Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 10/1/01 5:05:36 PM

>* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>
> snip bit about POLITICS THREADS
>
> > If you don't enjoy them then please feel free to ignore 
> > them.
>
> fair enough, could people put POLITICS or some such in the
> subject once it turns into a politics debate then, at 
> least for the next month or so,

Why stop there? Perhaps we could put POLITICS::LEFT, POLITICS::RIGHT,
POLITICS::BLAIRITE so that people can tell whether or not they
are likely to agree with the content of the post.

And don't forget to clearly label your Buffy posts with labels
like BUFFY::SPOILER::SERIES_5, BUFFY::WILLOW::SEXY or BUFFY::WILLOW::SEXY::FLUTE.

And film reviews should all have subjects like FILM::REVIEWGOOD
or FILM::REVIEWBAD, FILM::AI::SPIELBERG::ON::CRACK
etc.

Oh, and you can label Perl questions with things like PERL::ON::CRACK,
PERL::STUPID::NEWBIE::QUESTION or PERL::RTFM.

In fact, why don't we do away with message bodies competely and
just summarise the points in the subject so that no-one has to
waste too much time following the list.

Or maybe it's all a bloody stupid idea and we can just leave
things as they are.

What do you think?

Dave...

-- 
<http://www.dave.org.uk>

"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

[ANNOUNCE]The End ... Of The Beginning

[Dave Cross]

It's been over three years since london.pm started. Most of the
intervening time has been fun. Some of it even made sense :)

However, there's only so much cat herding that one person can
do and I've decided that it's time for someone else to try to
keep you all organised and focussed (hah!)

Over the next few months I'm going to wind down my involvement
with london.pm and hopefully by Christmas someone will have stepped
forward to take control (hah again!)

I'd like to point out that this has been pn my mind for a while
(see ) and
it's certainly there's no particular person or action that has
made me send this email today.

Anyway, thanks for the good times. Here's hoping they'll be even
more fun when I'm not worrying about organising everything.

Cheers,

Dave...

-- 


"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

Re: Advanced mail management

[Dave Cross]

From: Leon Brocard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 10/2/01 9:41:44 AM

> I've moved my mail from laptop to laptop to new company 
> computer over the years and it's dawned on me that I 
> never (that is NEVER) need archives which are more than a 
> week or so old.
>
> Agressive deletion is the only way.

This is _so_ true. And there's nothing more satisfying[1] than
deleting a couple of thousand emails from a mailbox :)

And don't most mailing lists have searchable web-based archives
anyway?

Dave...

[1] Ok, so I know this isn't strictly true.

-- 


"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

New Series

[Dave Cross]

Just to drag us back on topic for a while, did you all realise
that series 6 of Buffy starts in the US tonight.

And a little reminder to our Merkan subscribers, many of us still
haven't seen all of series 5, so please avoid posting spoilers.

We're really not interesting in finding out how Buffy c b***
f*** t** d*** - well not until we get to see it all next January.

Thank you.

Dave...

-- 


"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

Perl Monger Hats

[Dave Cross]

Whilst exploring deep in my study over the weekend, I came across
a box of the original Perl Monger Baseball Caps. I don't know
how many I've got, but it's probably about a dozen. We got them
when they were first made two years ago. I sold a few to members,
but the rest must have been "stored".

They look like this 

and if IIRC I was selling them for £7-50.

What do you think? Shall I bring some along on Thursday?

Dave...

-- 


"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

JOB: Anyone interested in this?

[Dave Cross]

From: "Joshua Rey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 10/2/01 4:06:35 PM

If you are, contact Joshua either by email or on 01223 476929.

Dave...


> WHO WE WANT
> I'm looking for someone to share the load of developing a
>  big CGI for a www business that should have gone live
> last month (August actually).   The project is fairly well
> scoped out - there's just a lot of it, too much for me to
> do in the time available. So I'm looking for somebody to
> add weight.   There's a premium on speed and accuracy -
> creativity is a bonus, but quick and neat are critical.  
> There's not very much rocket science in the application: 
> it's yer basic CGI.pm / MySQL / DBI / HTML::Template set
> up.
>
> WHO WE ARE
> This splendid person would be working for me and a mate
> who together constitute TrainingBoard.co.uk. Andy, the
> mate in question, also runs a small management
> consultancy, so the physical work environment would be an
> office of a half dozen or so affable if transient non-IT
> people.  The space (which we haven't moved into yet - it's
> in the hands of lawyers, but by the time we hire we shd be
> there) is in Pall Mall.   I would be there two days a week
> (the rest of the week I'm in Cambridgeshire, though seldom
> more than a telephone call away), so the right person
> would have to be able to self-motivate some of the time.  
> Although the outline of the project is fixed, my
> management style is to see whether someone is capable of
> doing something and then let him / her get on with it
> (support when wanted as against constant supervision),
> specifying results rather than methods.
>
> WHAT WE'D OFFER
> As to pay, we are open to suggestions.   This could be a
> permanent (insofar as anything is permanent in this world)
> position, particularly for someone with a bit of sysadmin
> ability - we would like to pay less than £30k.   Or we
> would be open to a shorter-term contractual arrangement, 
> which might be a bit more lucrative.   We'd be open to
> giving shares when things get going a bit - at the moment
> they'd be worthless anyway.
>
> WHAT WE'RE LIKE
> Both I and Andy (the "mate" in question) are practising
> Christians - not in a boring in-yer-face way, so this
> shouldn't be a negative for anybody, but I mention it as
> it might be an added attraction for some people
> (evangelising devil-worshippers perhaps...).   Our primary
> connection is through international relief work (Somalia,
> Afghanistan and other lovely places) - which I mention
> in the hope it would make the right person think that he
> or she would fit in.   The social atmosphere would be
> relaxed and open, and we are definitely interested in 
> results not face time.
>
> SUMMARY
> This is a job for someone who can code quickly and
> accurately and wd like to see a big project through to a
> conclusion in a finite period of time (and then go on to
> the next thing).  It would probably suit a younger person
> who has paid his / her dues and wants to do work with a
> bit more responsibility and freedom.

-- 


"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

Books and Hats

[Dave Cross]

I've _finally_ remembered to bring in the books that I got from
ORA a month ago and worked out who's getting what. If you're
on this list and won't be there tonight, please let me know so
I can make alternative arrangements (i.e. give it to someone
else).

Web Caching - Andy Williams
Learning Perl - Alex Page
NFS/NIS - Sue Gray
Linux Device Drivers - Simon Wistow
Joe McFadden - Java Cookbook
Exim - Jo Walsh
Bioinfomatics - Natalie Ford

Don't forget that part of the deal is that you have to review
them. And are there any other reviews in the pipeline? It's been
a while since we had any new ones.

Oh, and I have hats. Lots of hats. Bring your money :)

Dave...

-- 


"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

Re: Netiquette was Re: [Perl Jobs] CGI / MySQL developer (onsite), UK, London]

[Dave Cross]

From: Matthew Byng-Maddick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 10/18/01 12:36:55 PM

[rant snipped]

I've said this before and I'll (no doubt) have to say it again
in the future.

The london.pm mailing list is meant to be inclusive. Everyone
is welcome here. This means that we _do_ _not_ flame people simply
because they fail to use our favourite mail client or don't post
strictly in line with the usual guidelines.

Yes, we have (many) people on the list who have been on the internet
for a long time and can quote RFCs at length to back up all of
the netiquette rules, but it's a complete waste of time. Most
people on the internet aren't like that these days. Most people
happily post using MS Outlook because that's what they get given
at work. Most people reply "jeopardy style" because that's what
their mail client encourages them to do.

If you shout at them, they'll just leave the list and complain
how elitist we are. I don't want that to happen. If anyone thinks
that's an acceptable outcome then perhaps they are on the wrong
list.

The battle against the invading barbarian hordes was lost years
ago. Learn to live with it. Or annex your own part of the internet
and impose your strict rules there.

But don't do it on this list.

There's nothing to see here. Move along now.

Dave...

-- 


"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

RE: Classic Computer Books (Non-Perl)

[Dave Cross]

From: Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 10/18/01 1:38:35 PM

> What are the classic (non-perl) computers books? There 
> are several that come to mind, The Art of Computer 
> Programming (1->3), the Dragon book (thanks leon!, K&R, 
> Computer Graphics (Foley et al). But what are the books 
> that you guys really love?

Add to that list:

The UNIX Programming Environment - Kernigan & Pike
The Practice of Programming - Kernigan & Pike
Programming Perls - Jon Bentley
Design Patterns - Erich Gamma, etc
An Introduction to Database Systems - Chris Date

And a couple that will probably be seen as classics in the future:

Extreme Programming Explained - Kent Beck
Refactoring - Martin Fowler


Dave...

-- 


"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

Re: Classic Computer Books (Non-Perl)

[Dave Cross]

From: Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 10/18/01 2:10:48 PM

>* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>> 
>> An Introduction to Database Systems - Chris Date
>
> I haven't heard of this one, my "classic" general DB 
> books are Fundamentals of Database Systems and 
> Introduction to SQL (van der Lans)

Don't know if it's generally considered a classic. It was the
standard textbook when I was at college. I think I had the first
edition that included SQL :)

>> Refactoring - Martin Fowler
>
>Oh, another I haven't head of, whats this like?

It's a hardback. In the same series as the UML book.

But if that's not what you mean, I think it's very good. A lot
of what it says is common sense, but it's nice to see it all
written down. The examples are all in Java. And as someone pointed
out, many of the refactorings listed don't apply to Perl.

Well worth a look.

> Ron will be pleased to hear I've put in another huge 
> Amazon (boo hiss!) order ;-)

Let the record show that I, for one, am very disappointed with
Mr. McCarroll for continuing to use Amazon :)

Dave...

-- 
<http://www.dave.org.uk>

"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

Re: Classic Computer Books (Non-Perl)

[Dave Cross]

From: Robin Houston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 10/18/01 2:19:59 PM

> I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Mythical Man 
> Month, which despite its age is still delightfully sane 
> and readable.

Oops. I didn't mention it, because it completely slipped my mind.
Another couple of oldies that I've just remembered from college
are:

Software Engineering Economics - Barry Boehm
Structured Analysis & Design - Tom DeMarco

Dave...

-- 


"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

Breaking News: YAPC::Europe

[Dave Cross]

I've just heard an unsubstantiated rumour that next year's YAPC::Europe
will be in Munich. In 2003 it'll probably be in Paris.

Start working on your talks folks :)

Dave...

-- 


"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

RE: Re: Classic Computer Books (Non-Perl)

[Dave Cross]

From: David Cantrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 10/18/01 2:56:33 PM

>On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 02:35:32PM +0100, Sue Spence wrote:
>> Most (maybe all) of you have probably never used 
>> anything as antiquated as a non-relational/non-OO 
>> database.
>
> Does dbm count?

Does the term "CODASYL" mean anything to you?

Dave...
[now _this_ is the kind of computer nostalgia that I can relate
to]

-- 


"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

Re: Netiquette was Re: [Perl Jobs] CGI / MySQL developer (onsite), UK, London]

[Dave Cross]

From: "Dave Cross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 10/18/01 1:27:36 PM

>From: Matthew Byng-Maddick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: 10/18/01 12:36:55 PM
>
> [rant snipped]
>
> I've said this before and I'll (no doubt) have to say it 
> again in the future.
>
> The london.pm mailing list is meant to be inclusive. 
> Everyone is welcome here. This means that we _do_ _not_ 
> flame people simply because they fail to use our 
> favourite mail client or don't post strictly in line with 
> the usual guidelines.
>
> Yes, we have (many) people on the list who have been on 
> the internet for a long time and can quote RFCs at length 
> to back up all of the netiquette rules, but it's a 
> complete waste of time. Most people on the internet 
> aren't like that these days. Most people happily post 
> using MS Outlook because that's what they get given at 
> work. Most people reply "jeopardy style" because that's 
> what their mail client encourages them to do.
>
> If you shout at them, they'll just leave the list and 
> complain how elitist we are. I don't want that to happen. 
> If anyone thinks that's an acceptable outcome then 
> perhaps they are on the wrong list.
>
> The battle against the invading barbarian hordes was lost 
> years ago. Learn to live with it. Or annex your own part 
> of the internet and impose your strict rules there.
>
> But don't do it on this list.
>
> There's nothing to see here. Move along now.

Sigh.

Perhaps I wasn't as clear as I thought I was.

This discussion is uninteresting and unhelpful. But worse that
that, it has the potential to make us appear elitist and unwelcoming.
I will not allow that on this list.

Please consider the topic closed. Anyone continuing this discussion
will be immediately removed from the list. The people who continued
the discussion yesterday can consider themselves lucky that I'm
in a benevolent mood and haven't already unsubbed them.

That is all.

Dave...

-- 
<http://www.dave.org.uk>

"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

RE: Interesting Numbers

[Dave Cross]

From: Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 10/19/01 9:48:51 AM

> And finally a quick riddle, where you have to work out 
> the age of Diophantus,
>
>  "Here lies Diophantus," the wonder behold . . .
>  Through art algebraic, the stone tells how old:
>  "God gave him his boyhood one-sixth of his life,
>  One twelfth more as youth while whiskers grew rife;
>  And then yet one-seventh ere marriage begun;
>  In five years there came a bouncing new son.
>  Alas, the dear child of master and sage
>  After attaining half the measure of his fathers life
>  chill fate took him.
>  After consoling his fate by this science of numbers for
>  four years,
>  he ended his life." 

S
P
O
I
L
E
R

S
P
A
C
E
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

He was 84 when he died.

Dave...

-- 


"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

RE: RE: Writing a Perl Game

[Dave Cross]

From: Scottow Adrian - adscot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 10/19/01 9:39:51 AM

[Greg's game idea]

> I loved Nethack/Rogue/Moria and think that this would be 
> a brilliant thing to do.  How about mixing the dungeon 
> delving with some kind of trading element and maybe some 
> kind of building element (how about a castle or village 
> or stronghold) and quests .  We could even go the whole 
> hog and make it Middle Earth based.   Sorry I am half 
> through reading Lord of the Rings again after about ten 
> years and I am feeling quite inspired.  I'd love to help.

Didn't Moria have a trading element? IIRC you could buy equipment
from a trading post above the mines.

The PC version of Rogue was the first game I hacked with a hex
editor. I found the monster description table and changed all
the damage numbers to zero.

Made the game a _lot_ easier :)

Dave...

p.s. And whilst we're on the subject of LotR. I highly recommend
Date::Tolkien::Shire.

-- 


"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

Re: Interesting Numbers

[Dave Cross]

From: David Cantrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 10/19/01 12:31:29 PM

>On Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 09:48:51AM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
>> And finally a quick riddle, where you have to work out 
>> the age of Diophantus,
>>   "Here lies Diophantus," the wonder behold . . .
>>   Through art algebraic, the stone tells how old:
>>   "God gave him his boyhood one-sixth of his life,
>>   One twelfth more as youth while whiskers grew rife;
>>   And then yet one-seventh ere marriage begun;
>>   In five years there came a bouncing new son.
>>   Alas, the dear child of master and sage
>>   After attaining half the measure of his fathers life
>>   chill fate took him.
>>   After consoling his fate by this science of numbers for
>>   four years, he ended his life." 
>
> This is trivial, but can give two answers depending on 
> how you interpret "half the measure of his fathers 
> life".  Is it half the measure of his father's *entire* 
> life, or half the measure of his father's life up until
> that point?

Yeah. Spotted that, but went with the most obvious one
(the first one).

> Assuming the former ...

As did I.

>   x/6 + x/12 + x/7 + 5 + x/2 + 4 = x

Well, we started with the same equation

> => 84x + 42x + 72x + 2520 + 252x + 1008 = 504x # multiply
by 504

I multiplied by 84. Giving

14x + 7x + 12x + 420 + 42x + 336 = 84x

> => 2520 + 1008 = 3528 = 54x

756 = 9x

>=> x = 65 yrs 4 months, give or take a day or two

x = 84

I believe your error was in the calculation of 4 x 504 :)

hth,

Dave...
-- 


"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

Re: SPOILERS : Re: Interesting Numbers

[Dave Cross]

On Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 10:09:27PM +0100, Dave Hodgkinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 
wrote:
> Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> *wibble*
> 
> Grep, get a life!

ITYM "get a _job_" :)

Dave...

-- 

  .sig missing...

Re: Heretical Non-Heretics

[Dave Cross]

From: Leon Brocard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 10/22/01 9:13:09 AM

> Right, who is the leader of this non-heretical heretics 
> meeting then?

Sounds like you're doing a pretty good job to me :)

Dave...

-- 


"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

Re: tube stations

[Dave Cross]

From: Nicholas Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 10/22/01 9:53:03 AM

> http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/ has "macromedia site 
> of the day" which I suspect is quite justified for its 
> ability to not let me use it without flash.

It's a _horrible_ site. But having battled my way into its depths,
I now find that it doesn't list all of the records anyway[1]
and that the one we want isn't there.

Maybe I'll wander into a bookshop at lunchtime. I noticed recently
that the new edition is now out.

Dave...

[1] Presumabley to ensure that sad people still buy the book.

-- 


"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

Decisions, decisions

[Dave Cross]

Given the choice would you rather hear Damian Conway talk about:

* Extreme Perl 

* Lingua::Romana::Perligata 

Having seen both, I think I'd prefer "Extreme Perl", but I'm
interested to hear your opinions.

Dave...


The value of your investment can go up as well as down (but it
won't).
Other Perl speakers are available - ask your newsagent.
Nothing in this email should be taken as an indication that Damian
conway will be returning to London in the near future - particularly
not on Dec 10th.
Your house is at risk. Always.

-- 


"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

Re: Decisions, decisions

[Dave Cross]

From: Redvers Davies <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 10/22/01 11:56:42 AM


>> Given the choice would you rather hear Damian Conway 
>> talk about:
>
>> * Extreme Perl 
>
> I would lean towards the extreme.
>
> When is this talk roughly talked in for?

What talk? This is all purely hypothetical.

Didn't you read the small print?

Dave...

-- 


"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

Re: Late comment on the computer book thread

[Dave Cross]

On Sun, Oct 21, 2001 at 01:05:11PM -0400, David H. Adler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

[stuph]

Is it just me, or is everyone getting dha's posts twice?

-- 

  Drugs are just bad m'kay