[LUTE] Re: Consort Suggestions Please
See Index III: Performing Medium. Especially under Ensembles a 3 - Original Message - From: "Sam Chapman" To: "Edward Mast" Cc: ; Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 4:31 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Consort Suggestions Please Dear Tom, There's a lot of 16th-century consort music for three instruments - a good place to start would be to look in Brown's "Instrumental Music Printed Before 1600." You can play along with any of that repertoire on the lute if you make your own intabulations. Of course, you can make relatively free intabulations (as in the Lachrimae), leaving out unplayable voices and possibly adding new things of your own. If you're after something more specific, have a look at Vincenzo Ruffo "La Gamba in Basso e Soprano" - I could well imagine a lute fitting into the consort in that piece. Good luck! Sam On 9 September 2012 21:34, Edward Mast <[1]nedma...@aol.com> wrote: Not an answer to your question, but perhaps relevant if playing part music. When I got back to the lute a few years ago, I went to our local recorder society meetings to play ensemble music. What I found is that recorders generally read an octave higher then notated, so that playing the lute on a top or middle line put me an octave lower than the recorders, and thus out of place harmonically. So, I generally ended up on the bottom, or bass line, which is not the most comfortable area on the lute. Also, when playing music with longer not values, the lack of sustain of the lute compared to the recorders bothered me a bit. My solution was to learn to play the recorder. It sounds as if they could loan you an instrument or two to learn, and if you learn the fingering for the alto and tenor you can also play the bass and the soprano. I draw the line at the crumhorn, however! On Sep 9, 2012, at 1:12 PM, [2]t...@heartistrymusic.com wrote: > I have some friends who have had a recorder ensemble for many years. > Formerly 4 players. They lost one of their main players some years ago, > and they would like to re-group as a trio with me playing Renaissance lute. > They inherited a fine collection of Renaissance and Baroque recorders, > in all sizes including Bass, crumhorns, zincs, and even a sakpipa and a > cornemuse from the founder of the ensemble. > Does anybody have suggestions for composers and / or specific pieces that > would fit well with 3 recorders, etc. and lute? Dowland's Lachrimae, perhaps? > (I know that's 5 parts - but ... leave one out maybe ... ? ) > Thanks in advance, > Tom > > Tom Draughon > Heartistry Music > [3]http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html > 714 9th Avenue West > Ashland, WI 54806 > [4]715-682-9362 > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Sam Chapman Oetlingerstrasse 65 4057 Basel (0041) 79 530 39 91 -- References 1. mailto:nedma...@aol.com 2. mailto:t...@heartistrymusic.com 3. http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 4. tel:715-682-9362 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: folksongs
The World Catalogue is useful for searches such as this one. I found this link in World Cat: http://www.worldcat.org/wcpa/oclc/163639029?page=frame&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mdz-nbn-resolving.de%2Furn%2Fresolver.pl%3Furn%3Durn%3Anbn%3Ade%3Abvb%3A12-bsb10527372-1%26checksum%3D4137a1bd95df5d9cc810b05498f19eed&title=&linktype=digitalObject&detail= I didn't look for the other items. There may be TWO volumes on line for La Borde - Original Message - From: To: "Doughtie Ed" ; "Rockford Mjos" Cc: "Lutelist list" Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 10:53 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: folksongs Thanks. These look very interesting. Do you have any info on sources for these sources? Are they available as facsimiles, or doe one have to track them down at a library? Tom There are also non-English sources which this discussion brings to mind. Here are a few: Delaborde's Essai sur la musique ancienne et moderne (1780) includes melodies which are supposedly from Scandinavia, plus Air Irelandois, Airs des Sauvages du Canada, Airs Chinois, Air de danse Russe, Danse Grecque, among others. Mattheson (re)prints (in 1740) a report about "netherworldly music" in Norway from a town musician named Heinrich Meyer. The concert was said to have happened in 1695, and may refer to a hardanger fiddle. Mattheson also printed the melody. Amadee Francois Frezier collected some melodies from his coastal voyage of South America. He published a "Sapateo" as part of his "Relation du voyage de la mer du sud" (1716). He reported it was as popular as the Menuet in France. Stevenson has transcribed the piece (1960). -- R On Aug 10, 2012, at 3:09 PM, Doughtie Ed wrote: > Dear list: > > True, it's difficult to date folk music. But one would be wise to > consult Bertrand Bronson's monumental collection in 4 vols., > Traditional Tunes of the Child Ballads (Princeton UP, 1959-72). > Bronson is aware of such things as ground bass patterns that > underlie such tunes as Greensleeves, and is especially good on > identifying tune families. > > Ed Doughtie > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Folksongs (1 of 2)
Here (again) are Sharp's English folksong gather in Appalachia (part one). And some other collections. Of course many may be modernized. - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 1:03 AM Subject: New UR Research Publications for dates: 05/21/2012 - 05/22/2012 New publications are available in the UR Research collections you have subscribed to New publications in Musical Scores: 19 Publication Name: Folk songs from Mexico and South America / compiled and edited by Eleanor Hague ; pianoforte accompaniments by Edward Kilenyi. URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=20721&versionNumber=1 Editor:Hague, Eleanor Arranger:Kilenyi, Edward (1884 - 1968) Publication Name: Folk song of the American Negro [by] John Wesley Work. URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=20720&versionNumber=1 Author:Work, John, Wesley (1873 - 1925) Publication Name: The " Mark Stern" ragtime folio. No. 1. URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=20719&versionNumber=1 Publication Name: Shanghai; a spectacular operetta in two acts by Wm. Cary Duncan and Lauri Wylie. Additional lyrics & music by Adrian Ross [pseud.] & Howard Carr. URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=20718&versionNumber=1 Composer:Witmark, Isidore (1871 - 1941) Librettist:Duncan, William, Cary (1874 - 1945) Composer:Ross, Adrian (1859 - 1933) Composer:Carr, Howard Publication Name: Petites études en mouvement semblable. [Op. 60] URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=20717&versionNumber=1 Composer:Köhler, Louis (1820 - 1886) Publication Name: Schule des Lautenspiels für die gewöhnliche Laute, Basslaute, doppelchörige und theorbierte Laute. Unter berücksichtigung der Regeln und Erfahrungen der berühmtesten Lautenmeister des XVI. und folgender Jahrhunderte bis zur Gegenwart, herausgegeben von Hans Dagobert Bruger. URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=20716&versionNumber=1 Editor:Bruger, Hans, Dagobert (1894 - 1932) Publication Name: Suzanne's secret : interlude in one act, from the French by Enrico Golisciani = Susannens Geheimnis = Il segreto di Susanna / music by Ermanno Wolf-Ferrari ; English version by Claude Aveling ; vocal score. URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=20715&versionNumber=1 Composer:Wolf-Ferrari, Ermanno (1876 - 1948) Author:Golisciani, Enrico (1848 - 1918) Translator:Aveling, Claude (1869 - 1943) Publication Name: 9 mélodies d'Albert Eibenschutz. Chant et piano. Poésies de Mirza Schaffy et Maurice Plaeschke. Version francaise de Lucien Solvay. URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=20714&versionNumber=1 Composer:Eibenschütz, Albert Author:Vazeḣ, Mirză, Shăfi ( - 1852) Author:Plaeschke, Maurice Translator:Solvay, Lucien Publication Name: Negro folk singing games and folk games of the habitants; traditional melodies and text transcribed by Grace Cleveland Porter; accompaniments by Harvey Worthington Loomis. URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=20713&versionNumber=1 Arranger:Porter, Grace, Cleveland Arranger:Loomis, Harvey, Worthington (1865 - 1930) Publication Name: Ceremonial songs of the Creek and Yuchi Indians, by Frank G. Speck, with music transcribed by Jacob D. Sapir. URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=20712&versionNumber=1 Author:Speck, Frank, G (1881 - 1950) Arranger:Sapir, J, D Publication Name: American-English folk-songs / collected in the southern Appalachians and arranged with pianoforte accompaniment by Cecil J. Sharp. URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=20711&versionNumber=1 Arranger:Sharp, Cecil, J (1859 - 1924) Publication Name: Die Tangokönigin; Operette in 3 Akten von Julius Brammer und Alfred Grünwald. Klavierauszug mit unterlegtem Text. URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=20710&versionNumber=1 Composer:Lehár, Franz (1870 - 1948) Librettist:Brammer, Julius Librettist:Grünwald, Alfred Publication Name: New Mandolin Method URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=20709&versionNumber=1 Author:Stahl, William, C Publication Name: Folk-songs of the Kentucky mountains; twenty traditional ballads and other English folk-songs URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=20708&versionNumber=1 Composer:McGill, Joseph
[LUTE] Folksong (2of 2)
Here's the other one from Appalachia by Sharp. Some other interesting "folksong" collections. - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 2:03 AM Subject: New UR Research Publications for dates: 03/01/2012 - 03/02/2012 New publications are available in the UR Research collections you have subscribed to New publications in Musical Scores: 23 Publication Name: Southern war songs: camp-fire, patriotic and sentimental URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=18819&versionNumber=1 Composer:Fagan, W, L (1838 - 1914) Publication Name: War songs of the blue and the gray, as sung by the brave soldiers of the Union and Confederate armies in camp, on the march, and in garrison URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=18818&versionNumber=1 Publication Name: Shéhérazade : trois poèmes pour chant & orchestre URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=18817&versionNumber=1 Composer:Ravel, Maurice (1875 - 1937) Editor:Klingsor, Tristan (1874 - 1966) Publication Name: Alte französische volkslieder URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=18816&versionNumber=1 Composer:Bartsch, Karl (1832 - 1888) Publication Name: Rondes de printemps : "Images" pour orchestre no. 3 URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=18815&versionNumber=1 Composer:Debussy, Claude (1862 - 1918) Publication Name: Gigues. Images pour orchestre, no. 1 URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=18814&versionNumber=1 Composer:Debussy, Claude (1862 - 1918) Publication Name: Songs, from the published writings of Alfred Tennyson. Set to music by various composers. Edited by W.G. Cusins, with a portrait and original illus. by Winslow Homer [and others]. URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=18811&versionNumber=1 Editor:Cusins, W, G (1833 - 1893) Author:Tennyson, Alfred, Tennyson, Baron (1809 - 1892) Publication Name: Songs and masques, with Observations in the art of English poesy, ed. by A.H. Bullen. URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=18810&versionNumber=1 Composer:Campion, Thomas (1567 - 1620) Editor:Bullen, A, H (1857 - 1920) Publication Name: The songs of Robert Burns : now first printed with the melodies for which they were written : a study in tone-poetry with bibliography, historical notes, and glossary / by James C. Dick. URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=18809&versionNumber=1 Author:Burns, Robert (1759 - 1796) Editor:Dick, James, C (1838 - 1907) Publication Name: Folk songs of the American negro / edited by Frederick J. Work ; introduction by John W. Work, Jr. URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=18808&versionNumber=1 Editor:Work, Frederick, J (1871 - 1925) Editor:Work, John, Wesley (1873 - 1925) Publication Name: American Indian melodies / harmonized by Arthur Farwell. URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=18807&versionNumber=1 Arranger:Farwell, Arthur (1872 - 1952) Publication Name: Stimmen der Völker in Liedern, Tänzen und Charakterstücken. I. Abteilung: Die Volksmusik der Kreolen Amerikas URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=18806&versionNumber=1 Compiler:Friedenthal, Albert (1862 - 1921) Publication Name: Folk-songs of English origin collected in the Appalachian Mountains / by Cecil J. Sharp, first series. URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=18805&versionNumber=1 Editor:Sharp, Cecil, J (1859 - 1924) Publication Name: An American garland, being a collection of ballads relating to America, 1563-1739; ed. with introduction and notes by C. H. Firth. URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=18804&versionNumber=1 Editor:Firth, C, H (1857 - 1936) Publication Name: Six concertos for violins, French horns or hoboys & c. with a thorough bass for ye harpsichord or violoncello in eight parts, opera quarta, composed by Sigr. Giovanni Adolffo Hasse. URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=18803&versionNumber=1 Composer:Hasse, Johann, Adolf (1699 - 1783) Publication Name: Six concertos with accompaniments; for the organ, harpsichord or fortepiano; to which is added a harpsichord sonata URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalIte
[LUTE] Re: Aegidius MS?
There is a microfilm in the LSA Microfilm Library. But it might be incomplete. (There is at least one incomplete microfilm floating around.) For information about the library check the LSA page on Wayne Cripps' Lute Page (under "Publications"). There is a thematic index by Josef Klima. I checked it aganst the manuscript, and made some corrections (Klima had difficulties reading that old German script). It is on Ditto print and doesn't Xerox very well. Incidentally the original owner was a Salzburg nobleman, Johannes Aegidius Berner von Rettenweg. His grave stone is in the St. Aegidius church, home parish of the Mozart family. I believe there is another manuscript by the same copyist in the Dolmetsch Library in Haslemere (the OTHER lute manuscript, that is, NOT the falsely labelled "Medici Manuscript"). The Lute Society might also have a film. Bob Spencer was particularly interested in the Aegdiius MS. - Original Message - From: "William Samson" To: "Lute List" Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2012 2:01 PM Subject: [LUTE] Aegidius MS? Dear Bottomless Pit of Knowledge and Expertise, Does anybody know if the 'Aegidius' manuscript (Prague IV.G.18 ) is available on the web or in a printed publication? Thanks, Bill -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Morley: Plaine and Easie Introduction (1597 ed.)
And thank you for your useful links to lute music online. - Original Message - From: "T.Kakinami" To: "'A. J. Ness'" ; "'Lute List'" Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 6:24 AM Subject: RE: [LUTE] Morley: Plaine and Easie Introduction (1597 ed.) Many thanks Arthur, Additional links: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?i nstitutionalItemId=22415 https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?i nstitutionalItemId=21252 https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?i nstitutionalItemId=13243 * Toshiaki Kakinami E-mail : tk...@orchid.plala.or.jp Blog : http://kakitoshilute.blogspot.com * -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of A. J. Ness Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 6:03 PM To: Lute List Subject: [LUTE] Morley: Plaine and Easie Introduction (1597 ed.) Available online from Sibley Library (Eastman School). [1]https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView. action?institutionalItemId"415&versionNumber=1 -- References 1. https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?i nstitutionalItemId To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Correction__Re: Morley: Plaine and Easie Introduction (1597 ed.)
This link will work. https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=22415&versionNumber=1 - Original Message - From: "A. J. Ness" To: "Lute List" Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 5:02 AM Subject: [LUTE] Morley: Plaine and Easie Introduction (1597 ed.) Available online from Sibley Library (Eastman School). [1]https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView. action?institutionalItemId"415&versionNumber=1 -- References 1. https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Morley: Plaine and Easie Introduction (1597 ed.)
Available online from Sibley Library (Eastman School). [1]https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView. action?institutionalItemId"415&versionNumber=1 -- References 1. https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Dolmetsch on Sibley Digital
Perhaps this link will work.
https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=21849&versionNumber=1
- Original Message -
From: "A. J. Ness"
To: "Lute List"
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 1:56 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Dolmetsch on Sibley Digital
Many would today find Dolmetsch a bit too dogmatic, but it's
interesting reading to discover thought at the beginning of the early
music movement. The second volume with musical examples was offer
several months ago.
Publication Name: The interpretation of the music of the XVII and XVIII
centuries revealed by contemporary evidence
URL:
[1]https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.
action?institutionalItemId!849&versionNumber=1
Author:Dolmetsch, Arnold (1858 - 1940)
--
References
1.
mhtml:{166DD468-AEFE-46B7-9F53-8D53229DFAC8}mid://2119/!x-usc:https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId!849&versionNumber=1
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Dolmetsch on Sibley Digital
Many would today find Dolmetsch a bit too dogmatic, but it's
interesting reading to discover thought at the beginning of the early
music movement. The second volume with musical examples was offer
several months ago.
Publication Name: The interpretation of the music of the XVII and XVIII
centuries revealed by contemporary evidence
URL:
[1]https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.
action?institutionalItemId!849&versionNumber=1
Author:Dolmetsch, Arnold (1858 - 1940)
--
References
1.
mhtml:{166DD468-AEFE-46B7-9F53-8D53229DFAC8}mid://2119/!x-usc:https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId!849&versionNumber=1
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: greetings with saman and ballard
- Original Message - From: "MAGDALENA TOMSINSKA" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 10:29 AM Subject: [LUTE] greetings with saman and ballard Dear all, I am new on the list and instead of introduction I am sending you a link to the short video from the concert in Toronto with Toronto Continuo Collective. My solo was just a small part of a concert. Both courantes (by Saman and Ballard) are from the Gdansk lute tablature 4022. <>Hello, Magdalena! Very nice indeed. <>Magdalena didn't tell you that she is FROM Gdansk. When Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau died, I went surfing and found his recording of Hans Pfitzner's descriptive Lied, nicely set to scenes of Magdalena's home town. --Arthur. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPo4T8lHxEo&feature=autoplay&list=PLFACBEF5455065DEA&playnext=1 [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqk0nuBEM-I from the same concert there is also fun French Dialogue: [2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr_4M2KDtpI&feature=relmfu best, Magdalena PS. Ron, I enjoyed your version of Ravenscroft very much! -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqk0nuBEM-I 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr_4M2KDtpI&feature=relmfu To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] OT Anthems (was) Re: unusual combination: lute and stylophone
Are the lutenist and stylophonist out of jail yet? Stravinsky's arrangement of the Star Spangled Banner was on display this season in Symphony Hall (next to the autograph of the Symphony of Psalms). He didn't get arrested, but didn't perform his arranngement at the next concert, either. Boston police are said to have visted him backstage before the repeat of the concert. At the time according Massachusetts law, it was a crime to deface or parody the national anthem. The famous Boston PD mug shot with this YouTube performance is unknown (the date is wrong for his version of the anthem--1944). It may be a hoax. Or a Stravinsky look-alike. Here is Stravinsky's version performed at a safe distance from Boston by the London SO. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHYCqFfpNGQ In WW_I BSO Music Director Karl Muck was jailed and interned for a year for NOT playing the national anthem. He didn't know it was on the out-of-town program. Omitting it was falsely taken as evidence of his loyalty to Germany (he was Swiss). The Queen's Jubilee is also being celebrated today at 2 pm in Boston near the Old State House, where Elizabeth spoke from the balcony in 1976. But the Declaration of Independence was read 200 years before from the same balcony. (I wonder if she was aware that she was also looking down on the site of the Boston Massacre.) To celebrate the Jubilee, Charlotte and I are having Coronation Chicken for dinner. Those have been 60 good years, in my opinion. http://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyle/food-dining/2012/05/29/recipe-for-coronation-chicken/MS5MpcpyBYjvQfb49HO8XI/story.html - Original Message - From: "WALSH STUART" To: "Lutelist" Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2012 8:41 AM Subject: [LUTE] unusual combination: lute and stylophone [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoRMAfVrz04 Stuart -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoRMAfVrz04 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: looking for a painting
Well enough clothing. http://www.klassiskgitar.net/1550-1600-2.html# One of your guys, I think: Bijlert. - Original Message - From: "David van Ooijen" To: "lutelist Net" Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 5:44 PM Subject: [LUTE] looking for a painting Cannot seem to find it: Woman tuning her lute. Seen from the back. Not much clothing. David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: A special request (Kapsberger)
Dear Caius, For Kapsberger's third book of chitarone music, there is only one copy known, and it lacks the pages you ask about. That copy was in the magnificent Berlin library of Werner Wolffheim which went on the auction block in 193?. A private individual in Bologna acquired that copy. For years the book was known only from its listing in the auction catalogue. In 2001 several lute tablatures were announced for auction by Sotheby's. Yale wanted a German tablature for their rare book collection (they had no examples of German tablature), and so gathered up monies to purchase a Heckel tablature which was in the sale. Yale got lucky. The price on the Heckel was driven beyond their budget. (It's the most unexciting book of lute music ever; and ten copies are known to exist.) So they reconnoitered and decided on the Kapsberger third chitarone book. Little did they know that it was the copy from Bologna, the only one known to exist. What a coup! For all of us, because its purchase by Yale finally made that Kapsberger volume available to everyone. And our Diego Cantalupi had his own coup. He made the first recording of its music (a fine one, too!). AND the Yale library permitted him to include a facsimile of the entire print in his CD. http://www.mvcremona.it/CDKapsbergeEngl.html This just tends to illustrate how ephemeral is the lute repertory. One copy of a book that was surely issued in several hundred copies. From a court case, we know Dowland's third book of ayres was printed in 1250 copies. Less than a dozen survive. u.s.w. Arthur. - Original Message - From: "hera caius" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 10:44 AM Subject: [LUTE] A special request Hello, I have played some of the music from the Kapsberger third book for theorbo. This book I received from somebody but it some of the pages are missing...so it starts at page 9 (in the original numbering. It would be so perfect if somebody can provide me the pages 1 to 8 (I guess there are two toccatas) in pdf or jpg. Thanks in advance. Caius Hera -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
looking for Hammerschmidt "Wie er wolle geküsset seyn"
I found it (here it is in your music library in The Hague, David). In Erbe deutscher Musik, vol. 43, it is titled under the first line of the lyrics (by Paul Fleming), "Nirgends hin, als auf den Mund." It is also popularly known as "Die Kunst der Küssen." Title: Weltliche Oden oder Liebesgesa?nge (Freiberg 1642 und 1643, Leipzig 1649) / Andreas Hammerschmidt ; hrsg. von Hans Joachim Moser Author: Andreas Hammerschmidt (ca1611-1675) Collaborator: Hans Joachim Moser (1889-1967) Year: 1962 Publisher: Mainz : Schott Series: Das Erbe deutscher Musik. Abt. 4, Oper und Sologesang ; Bd. 5; Das Erbe deutscher Musik ; Bd. 43 Note: Voorwoord en kritisch commentaar in Duits Voor 1-5 stemmen met instrumenten Bestaat uit 3 intermezzi Extent: 1 partituur (VII, 114 p.). : facs. ; 33 cm Instrumentation code: NMI174.0; NMI182.1; NMI182.2; NMI183.0 Subject heading music: Liederen Duitsland 1600-1650 Request number: NMI Ser/Erbe (43) Request info: Please go to the loan desk Request or reservation not possible, go to information desk - Original Message - From: "David van Ooijen" To: "lutelist Net" Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 6:29 AM Subject: [LUTE] looking for Hammerschmidt "Wie er wolle geküsset seyn" It's for a friend. I don't know it, but it's a lute song. Anybody with a score or a hint where to look? David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: From Sibley: Bruger "Schule" / Folksongs
Thanks Mathias. I should have mentioned that it is Part Two. That is something that one needs to watch in these Sibley postings. This is the second time I've encountered the second part of a book or score, when it was the first part that interested me. But "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth," as we say over here. - Original Message - From: "Mathias Rösel" To: "'Lute List'" Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 8:10 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: From Sibley: Bruger "Schule" / Folksongs Publication Name: Schule des Lautenspiels für die gewöhnliche Laute, Basslaute, doppelchörige und theorbierte Laute. Unter berücksichtigung der Regeln und Erfahrungen der berühmtesten Lautenmeister des XVI. und folgender Jahrhunderte bis zur Gegenwart, herausgegeben von Hans Dagobert Bruger. URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=20716&versionNumber=1 Editor:Bruger, Hans, Dagobert (1894 - 1932) Good to see that this has been digitalized. It's the 2nd part, though, not the whole book. Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: A request--Kapsperger song
Dear Jeffrey, I took a look to find your piece, "Ai conviti, alle nozze." It's the first item in Kapsberger's Coro musicale nelle Nozze degli . . . Sig+ri+ Don Taddeo Barbarini e Donna Anna Colonna (Rome: Masetti, 1627). RISM K 195. The unique copy (according to RISM) is in the British Library. It is not very well known in the Kapsbverger literature. That library has a microfilm which apparently can be duplicated. There is a service you can access online to order the film from that library. (I've never used it because of some red tape., but perhaps with your faculty status it will not be too difficult for you.). Perhaps they will make a digital copy of the piece you want. I could not find a modern edition, although the piece has been recorded. I've asked Charlotte to look through the reference tools at the BPL. She was too busy today, and will look tomorrow. I'll forward her report. I haven't finished reading your excellent history of the guitar in America from Victorian days to the jazz era. It's on a table near my easy chair and I savor a few pages almost every day. What a fine work! Arthur. - Original Message - From: "Jeffrey Noonan" <[1]jjnoo...@sbcglobal.net> To: "lute" <[2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 11:17 AM Subject: [LUTE] A request--Kapsperger song > A friend contacted me yesterday looking for the Kapsperger song "Ai > conviti, alle nozze." I've checked my few Kapsperger songs as well as > those in the local music library--no luck. > > Any chance that someone on this list has or has access to this song? > I'm sorry but I do not even have the source of the song right now, > though I am trying track that down. > > A modern edition or the original scoring would be fine. > > Thanks in advance for any assistance offered. > > jeff > __ > > -- > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:jjnoo...@sbcglobal.net 2. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Ms 4022 AND Re: Pekiel
We have a coincidence here, so I'll expand on what Roman and Ned have written, and combine the subjects of two recent postings here: "Re: Ms 4022" and "Bartolomiej Pekiel." The topics have much in common, since Ms 4022 is the one Roman calls "The Danzig Manuscript," with pieces sometimes erroneously attributed to Pekiel. Ms 4022 now in Berlin was one of two lute manuscripts in the Stadtbibliothek in Danzig (Gdansk) before WW_II (see the stamp at the bottom of the first page). (The other is Ms 4021.) They were long reported to have been destroyed during the war. Recently Ms 4022 (and Ms 4021?) turned up in a small archive in Germany, perhaps brought there when Germans were expelled from Danzig at the end of the war. Recently they seem to have been given over to the Staatsbibliothek zu Berlin, retaining their old call numbers. Ms. 4022 probably dates from the first or second decade of the 17th century, and has an east European repertory, as some of you have noticed, including German, French, Italian and English works. Some titles are familiar, e.g, La Monica, Pavan d'Espagna, Heydruken Tanz, Baletto Rutteno (!), Allemande d'Amour, Rolandt, Spagnoletta, Parlament of Englandt, Duda, (a bagpipes piece) and intabulations of German secular and sacred Lieder (many by Hans Leo Hassler). The named composers are familiar: Ballard, V.B. (Bakfark?), Perrichon, Piccinini, Nani di Milano, Gaultier, Mercure, et al. (Some titles and attributions were trimmed away during binding.) The pieces on folios 20-32 (etc.) have obtained some notoriety, so to speak. And the current New Grove online perpetuates the confusion. Some 40 lute dances are identified solely with the initials "B.P." in the margin. To some this suggested Bartolomeij Pekiel (d. ca. 1670), a composer little known in the west. Polish musicians consider Pekiel one of the truly "great" Polish composers of the early baroque, a well deserved reputation, judging from the quality of his music. He specialized almost entirely in sacred music, written in the polychoral Venetian concertante style of composers like the Gabrielis: works for large choral, solo and instrumental forces. A nice selection of his sacred music is Polish Baroque: Pekiel and Contemporaries with the Ensemble Euopeen Wm. Byrd, Graham O'Reilly, cond. (Ambronay CD #010). Well, the "B.P." attribution stuck to Pekiel, and accordingly the pieces made their way into a critical series of "monuments" of Polish music, Maria Szczepanska, ed., Bartolomiej Pekiel: 40 utworow na lutniea [="Bart. Pekiel: 40 pieces for lute"], in Wydawnicto Dawnej Muzuki Polskej, vol. 30. [Krakow]: Polskie wydawnictwo muzyczne, 1955. I own Stanley Buetens's well worn personal copy of this publication. Stanley undoubtedly drew from it for the anthology from which Ned made his nice recording. [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v'X65jfhUcg There are a number of problems with the attribution. Pekiel began working as a professional in 1631, which suggests a birth date around 1610. In that case he would have been a child when the pieces were copied into the Danzig Manuscript. Accordingly the Pekiel lute edition was withdrawn by the publishers and vol. 30 was replaced with what is surely the correct resolution of B.P., Polish Dance, "Baletto Polacco": Zofia Steszewska, ed., Tance polskie z Tabulatury gdanskiej (I po. XVII w.): na lutnie. Ibid., 1965. It is nice to have Ms 4022 available on line. The music is worthy of your attention. [2]http://digital.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/dms/werkansicht/?PPN=PPN61 8787879&PHYSID=PHYS_0001 AJN -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v%C2%B4X65jfhUcg 2. http://digital.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/dms/werkansicht/?PPN=PPN618787879&PHYSID=PHYS_0001 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Haslemere ms.
Dear Sean, The handwriting is NOT the same! Jacob was writing when in some quarters the mss were thought to have the same scribe. The person who made that claim realized in 1999 that he was mistaken, and has since corrected himself. The manuscript in question, by the way, is Ms II.C.23 in the Dolmetsch Library at Haslemere, which was most likely copied by several different scribes in Savona for a member of the della Robbia family, and came to Florence as dowry around 1634 when Vittoria II della Robbia (daughter of the last Duke of Urbino) married Ferdinando II dei Medici, Grand Duke of Tuscany. The Siena manuscript in The Hague is named according to information on the engraved spine on the 19th-century binding which reads "Italienische Lautentabulatur gefunden in Siena 1863 F[ranz] G[ehring--the purchaser]." It has a Siena watermark and a layer of pieces by Siennese lutenist/composers. Its careful, uniform paleography suggests that it was copied in a music scriptorium by one professional scribe. See the detailed autopsy report with concordances on the Haslemere MS made *in situ* by John H. Robinson (with notes by Robert Spencer) and published in the Dolmetsch journal *The Consort* 26 (2006). AJN. - Original Message - From: "Sean Smith" To: "lute" Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 3:14 PM Subject: [LUTE] Haslemere ms. Jacob Heringman writes about the similarity of the scribes between the Siena ms. and a Haslemere manuscript in the booklet that accompanies his recording of the former. Is this available? "Dolmetsch Library in Haslemere (MS II C23)" many thanks in advance, Sean To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lautenspieler (Chilesotti) / Respighi: Ancient Dances / FVB
Here are more items that may be of interest in recent Sibley releases.
Here's the link to Lautenspieler:
Publication Name: Lautenspieler des XVI. Jahrhunderts = Luitisti del
Cinquecento : ein Beitrag zur Kenntnis des Ursprungs der modernen
Tonkunst
URL:
[1]https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.
action?institutionalItemId=18350&versionNumber=1
Composer:Chilesotti, Oscar (1848 - 1916)
And here's the link to the full score of Respighi's first suite:
Publication Name: Antiche danze ed arie per liuto/ trascrizione libera
per orchestra. Partiura.
URL:
[2]https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.
action?institutionalItemId=17987&versionNumber=1
Composer:Respighi, Ottorino (1879 - 1936)
You might notice that the second piece titled Galiarda is in an "A
(Galiarda) B (...) A (Galiarda)" form, and attributed to Galilei. The
galiarda is his Polymnia Gagliarda from his manuscript of 1584, now in
Florence. Polymnia is the muse of sacred music, and that accounts for
the polyphonic, imitative texture.
The middle movement is not by Galilei at all. It comes from a
Bavarian manuscript assembled by a Nuremberg merchant named Scheurlei
(published by Chilesotti as "Da un Codice Lauten-Buch"). It is a
bagpipe piece, similar to others published in Nuremberg by Georg
Fuhrmann. The ostinato (D-a-d [F-c-f in the original]) represents the
drones, and the high upper line, the chanter.
There's a dompe in this one (p. 236):
Publication Name: The Fitzwilliam virginal book, [commonly known as
Queen Elizabeth's virginal book]
URL:
[3]https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.
action?institutionalItemId=18433&versionNumber=1
Editor:Fuller-Maitland, J, A (1856 - 1936)
Editor:Squire, William, Barclay (1855 - 1927)
--
References
1.
https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=18350&versionNumber=1
2.
mhtml:{166DD468-AEFE-46B7-9F53-8D53229DFAC8}mid://1954/!x-usc:https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=17987&versionNumber=1
3.
mhtml:{166DD468-AEFE-46B7-9F53-8D53229DFAC8}mid://4071/!x-usc:https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=18433&versionNumber=1
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http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: John Ward
Dear Ron, Those are very nice comments about John on your web site. I do not understand why an official announcement on John's passing did not appear more promptly. I also heard many weeks ago, but felt somone else should be responsible for an announcment. So far there has still been no mention in either the Globe or Cambridge Chronicle. The burial ceremony will be held in Mount Auburn Cemetery at 9:45 a.m. on February third. In your list of publications you might also include two important articles in the Journal of the Lute Society of America, "A Dowland Miscellany" (1977) and "Changing the Instrument for the Music" (an important article for ALL who edit lute music: 1982). There is a fuller list of publications in the Vicapaedia biographical article: http://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ioannes_Milton_Ward You should mention MEL again in the Bibliography. Perhaps also his Festschrift: Music and Context. Might you or Doug Freundlich compile a complete bibliography of John's writngs for the Quarterly? That would be an appropriate memorial. AJN - Original Message - From: "Ron Andrico" To: Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 10:10 PM Subject: [LUTE] John Ward We heard the news of John Ward's passing some weeks ago, and have a short blog post in his honor. [1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-io Ron & Donna -- References 1. http://wp.me/p15OyV-io To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: where to get Damiani's tutor?
UK sales agent for Ut Orpheus: Univeral Edition (London) For an extensive list of agents for foreign publishers in the UK, check the listing in Music Publishers Assocation (UK), under "all companies and catalogues." [1]http://www.mpaonline.org.uk/ Likewise in U.S., check MPA of the U.S. [2]http://www.mpa.org/ I expect most counries have similar umbrella organizations. They give addresses as well. - Original Message - From: "Luca Manassero" <[3]l...@manassero.net> To: "Lute Net" <[4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 11:16 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: where to get Damiani's tutor? > Check the Ut Orpheus website, here: > [1]http://www.utorpheus.com/index.php?language=en > You could find a distributor in your area or (easier) order it on line. > Luca > Stuart Walsh on 19/01/12 17.08 wrote: > > A friend's daughter is going to have lute lessons and wants to get > Damiani's tutor. Any ideas where to get it in UK? > Stuart > > References > > 1. [5]http://www.utorpheus.com/index.php?language=en > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.mpaonline.org.uk/ 2. http://www.mpa.org/ 3. mailto:l...@manassero.net 4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. http://www.utorpheus.com/index.php?language=en 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] English Folksongs in Appalachia
[1]https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView. action?institutionalItemId=17076&versionNumber=1 Some of you may be interested in this famous, large collection of Engflish folksongs collected ca. 1900 in Appalachia by Cecil Sharp. Sometimes the songs in America are "purer" than current versions in the British Isles. ajn -- References 1. https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=17076&versionNumber=1 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: tab clefs
They indicate the pitch of the indicated course. In other words, guideposts for the arrangement of hexachors opn the lute fingerboatrd. Apparently lutenists could imagine their instrument as being "tuned" in any number of nominal pitches. It is rather easy when one "thinks" in hexachords. It makes transposition on the lute easy, as well. That's the point of Ward's article that David Tayler cites. It is reprinted in the JLSA (vol. 15 [1982]: 27ff.). - Original Message - From: [1]Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. To: [2]Art Ness Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2011 2:39 PM Subject: tab clefs I think I may have asked you this before. If so, apologies. I just finished work on [3]El Parnasso, and now I am taking another look at Orphenica Lyra with a view to supplying missing data (including indicating the red notes with a dot as in Daza) on these pieces and have encountered these two marks (attached). Can you tell me their significance? My guess is that the triple mark signifies an "F clef" and the double one a "C clef", labeling the course they are on in that manner. I don't know for sure that is right, and whether these refer only to the open string or to the first melody note on that string. Or maybe they signify fa and ut rather than Fefaut and Cesolfaut. Any help you could give would be much appreciated. I hope all is well with you. It's been family madness around here -- three Thanksgiving dinners, followed by several days of Thanksgiving leftovers. I'm ready to give up turkey for another year. --Sarge -- Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. ([4]sa...@gerbode.net) 742 Second St East Sonoma, CA 95476-7104 Home phone: 707-938-4447 Fax: 707-938-4471 Website: [5]http://www.gerbode.net "The map may not be the territory, but it's all we've got." -- References 1. mailto:sa...@gerbode.net 2. mailto:arthurjn...@verizon.net 3. http://gerbode.net/ft2/composers/Daza/el_parnasso_1576/ 4. mailto:sa...@gerbode.net 5. http://www.gerbode.net/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Century-old lute recordings
For the links, scroll to the end of the message. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Century-old lute recordings
For acoustic recordings Stroh instruments were widely used because they could focus the sound. First used for violin family around 1900, the Stroh principle (a horn attached to a resonator) was added to ukes, guitars, banjos. Given the popularity of lute-guitar at the time, I can imagine Stroh-lutes being used. And the sound is indeed "focused" on the recording from the LofC. There was a Stroh guitar on display at the Boston MFA's exhibition "Dangerous Curves" and I recall a picture on the wall showing musicians in the studio playing Stroh instruments (see Stokowski in the links). It's in the exhibition catalogue, page 112. Here are some visuals and one video of a player. [1]http://www.stokowski.org/images/1924_Victor_Orchestra_Acous.jpg Detail from above [2]http://www.loc.gov/jukebox/features/stroh-violin [3]http://www.eliznik.org.uk/RomaniaMusic/images/stroh-2.htm Strohguitar (click on image to enlarge) [4]http://www.resohangout.com/topic/17505 [5]http://www.flickr.com/photos/47566991@N03/6143310909/in/photostream/ [6]http://waadeekrax.wordpress.com/2011/08/01/stroh-violin/ [7]http://strohviolin.com/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=8 - Original Message - From: <[8]heiman.dan...@juno.com> To: <[9]edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp> Cc: <[10]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2011 8:20 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Century-old lute recordings > Ed: > > It is highly likely that there was no microphone. This was still the era > of acoustic recording. Electronic technology did not come into common use > for making records until the mid-1920s. > > Daniel > > -- Original Message -- > From: Ed Durbrow <[11]edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp> > To: Daniel F Heiman <[12]heiman.dan...@juno.com>,LuteNet list > <[13]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Century-old lute recordings > Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 18:38:06 +0900 > > How very interesting! It sounds like the singer is singing full voice. > They must have put the lutenist right in front of the microphone to > achieve that balance. > > On Nov 21, 2011, at 7:50 AM, [1]heiman.dan...@juno.com wrote: > > at the Library of Congress: > [2]http://1.usa.gov/tdD129 > It must be a lutar, but it is nevertheless interesting that anyone even > thought of doing these at that time. > Daniel > To get on or off this list see list information at > [14]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > Ed Durbrow > Saitama, Japan > [3]http://www.musicianspage.com/musicians/9688/ > [4]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ > > -- > > References > > 1. [15]mailto:heiman.dan...@juno.com > 2. [16]http://1.usa.gov/tdD129 > 3. [17]http://www.musicianspage.com/musicians/9688/ > 4. [18]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ > > > > > -- References 1. http://www.stokowski.org/images/1924_Victor_Orchestra_Acous.jpg 2. http://www.loc.gov/jukebox/features/stroh-violin 3. http://www.eliznik.org.uk/RomaniaMusic/images/stroh-2.htm 4. http://www.resohangout.com/topic/17505 5. http://www.flickr.com/photos/47566991@N03/6143310909/in/photostream/ 6. http://waadeekrax.wordpress.com/2011/08/01/stroh-violin/ 7. http://strohviolin.com/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=8 8. mailto:heiman.dan...@juno.com 9. mailto:edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp 10. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 11. mailto:edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp 12. mailto:heiman.dan...@juno.com 13. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 14. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 15. mailto:heiman.dan...@juno.com 16. http://1.usa.gov/tdD129 17. http://www.musicianspage.com/musicians/9688/ 18. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: D# Minor Suite
Dear Christopher, - Original Message - From: "Christopher Wilke" <[1]chriswi...@yahoo.com> To: "A. J. Ness" <[2]arthurjn...@verizon.net>; <[3]baroque-l...@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 8:34 AM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: D# Minor Suite > Arthur, > > --- On Sun, 10/30/11, A. J. Ness <[4]arthurjn...@verizon.net> wrote: > >> But one wouldn't transcribe it in D# minor >> (SEVEN sharps), as Eklund does, but >> rather as Sterling indicates in E flat >> minor (only six flats). >> Dear Christopher, > > I agree that the key signature of 7 sharps is rather cumbersome to read, but there is precedent for it in the baroque. In Book 1 of the Well Tempered Clavier, Bach pairs a prelude in E-flat minor (key sig, 6 flats) with a fugue in D# minor (7 sharps). (A very complex fugue, by the way, with much ingenious use of stretto.) In Book 2, both prelude and fugue are written in D# minor. <> I have an even better one for you. In the chaconne composed by Tomasso Vitali, one variation has the violin in D# minor and the basso continuo in E flat major. (It--incidentally--is by Vitali: the original 18th-century manuscript is in the Dresden Landesbibliothek; his father also wrote wierd music--a kind of 18th-century Chas. Ives & Son.) <> The second suite in the manuscript (Uppsala, Instr. mus hs 20:13) is in Gis dur. That would require 8 sharps (F gets two sharps, = double sharp), and surely the composer intended A flat major. Consistency would suggest E flat minor for the first suite. I find Ekland's arguments for Dis moll to be rather weak. He doesn't understand that the key designations are derived from the scale for German keyboard tablature. > As for the major mode pieces occupying the space between D and E, Bach writes all of those in E-flat major (3 flats). <> I'm afraid you're confused, Christopher. In German keyboard tablature the spelling of the note between D and E is Dis, not Es (E flat), as you write. Recall the Eroica in Dis. Only B is indicated with a "flat" in German keyboard tablature. Otherwise keys with flats are "spelled" with the enharmonic sharp spelling. You need to reread my explanation. That's the questrion that started this thread. The ciphers for various keyboard tablatures are diagramed in my article "tablature" in the New HDM. > In the end, I think the issue is moot when dealing with a piece notated in tablature since sources like Burwell and the concerti of Radolt show that various pitch levels were used for different sized "baroque" lutes.[*] <> We are discussing pieces with a specified key identified in the source with ciphers used in German keyboard tablature. With lute of different sizes the key is specified, regardless of the actual sounding pitch. Naming the "key" as a kind of title provides guidance to the player. The fingerings for scales, chords, etc., in A flat are going to be different from those for E major. So it's not moot. The rubrics in Daza's tablature book (1576?) serve a similar purpose in orienting the player and singer to the mode. *Also take care. Sometimes it is the voice part that is to be transposed! AJN. > Chris > > > Christopher Wilke > Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer > [5]www.christopherwilke.com > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:chriswi...@yahoo.com 2. mailto:arthurjn...@verizon.net 3. mailto:baroque-l...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:arthurjn...@verizon.net 5. http://www.christopherwilke.com/ 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Il me suffit in Ms Mus 2987
Nothing New Under the Sun. The intabulation in score format from Mus Ms 2987 (fol. 2) is examined in context in Hiroyuki Minamino, "The Schlick-Virdung Lute Intabulation Controversy," The Lute 46 (2006): 54-67. Alas the reproduction of the Munich folio on page 57 is reduced and totally illegible. Here again is the link to that page: [1]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0004/bsb00049370/images/inde x.html?id=00049370&fip=qrsqrseayaensdaseayaenqrsxdsydensdas&no=44&seite =15 For more information on the topic, see Hiro's dissertation, "Sixteenth-Century Lute Treatises with Emphasis on Process and Techniques of Intabulation," Ph.D. diss., University of Chicago, 1988. ajn - Original Message - From: "Ron Andrico" <[2]praelu...@hotmail.com> To: <[3]lu...@tiscali.co.uk>; <[4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 9:51 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Il me suffit in Ms Mus 2987 > Dear Stewart: > Thank you for this most interesting information. Your discovery > reinforces my idea that tablature is as much a distillation and > reservoir of information as is it a mere performance guide. I think > that is why so many intabulations of polyphonic vocal music can be > difficult to play. The intabulator was putting down as much > information as possible from the vocal original, with intelligent > choices as to fingerings, and leaving up to the player to decode and > articulate the polyphonic lines. > Your discovery is intensely interesting. Will we see an article in > Lute News? > Best wishes, > Ron Andrico > > Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 14:02:59 +0100 > > To: [5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > > From: [6]lu...@tiscali.co.uk > > Subject: [LUTE] Il me suffit in Ms Mus 2987 > > > > Dear Arthur, > > > > Many thanks for your message. I now realise that what at first > appears > > to be a useless, difficult-to-read intabulation of Il me suffit, is > in > > fact a necessary half-way house, assuming one is trying to intabulate > > polyphonic music from a set of partbooks where there are no barlines. > > You have to create a score first to be able to intabulate the piece > for > > solo lute. > > > > It also restores my faith in Virdung. His intabulation is a similar > > half-way house. Showing the intabulation process would have been more > > use to his readers than just giving them a finished intabulation they > > could find anywhere. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Stewart. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: A. J. Ness [mailto:arthurjn...@verizon.net] > > Sent: 10 October 2011 00:09 > > To: Stewart McCoy; Lute Net > > Subject: Re: [LUTE] Il me suffit in Ms Mus 2987 > > > > Dear Stewart, > > > > Mus Ms 2987 is a fascicle manuscript. That is several (3?) > manuscripts > > bound together in the mid-19th century. (One fascicle is in the hand > of > > Melchior Newsidler. Willi Apel has published the keyboard pieces.) > Some > > of > > the pages were discovered in 1840 loose in one of the huge Lassus > choir > > books (5 foot tall!), where they must have been for two centuries. > > > > I see no reason to doubt that they are the first stage in making an > > intabulation. There is, however, an unrelated manuscript in the > Munich > > University library that has German tablature likewise in score > format. > > But > > the pieces are for viols since some parts are labeled "Geygen." > There's > > lute music in that manuscript also. > > > > Back across the street to D-Mbs. Mus Ms 1511C has some sketchy pages > > (lots > > of corrections) of intabuations of "Aspice dominum" by Jachet, > followed > > by > > similar sketchy intabulation of Willaert's "Audi filia." Now in the > > middle > > of Aspice is a page of German tablature in SATB score format (fol. > 3v). > > It's a tricky > > passage for "Audi filia" that the intabulator worked out in SATB > > tablature > > score and > > then copied into the tablature. At the end of that fascile is a > > dedication > > t
[LUTE] Re: Il me suffit in Ms Mus 2987
Dear Stewart, Marie Louisse Martinez-Goellner has an article in English based primarily on the Mus Ms 1511CV sketches in the Dorfmueller Festschrift (copy at Oxford): Title: Ars iocundissima : Festschrift fuer Kurt Dorfmueller zum 60. Geburtstag Editors: Horst Leuchtmann; Robert Muenster Publisher: Tutzing : H. Schneider, 1984. For contents see [1]http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/11452778 I do not recall if she discusses the "Il me suffit" score, but I mention it in my dissertation and reached the same conclusions as you (Scribe W), nor did I find Scribe W elsewhere in the Herwarth manuscripts. It seems to be a unicum--I couldn't find the same intabulation elsewhere. The lines below the piece may be attempts at alternate measures for "Il me suffit" or subsequent SATB intabulation which does not come down to us. Notice that the top four lines are crossed off, perhaps because they had been incoroprated into the piece.. Examples of sketches for intabulations are rare. What usually happens is that a lutenist takes an existing intabulation and ornaments it his own style. It saves having to work out all the fingerings to make a playable piece. For example the Francesco intabulation of Jannequin's Battaglia with VII=F uses the same basic intabulation as those by Pacoloni and Marco dall'Aquila, each ornamented slightly differently. (The Marco work is edited, tablature and transcription, in [2]http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepq31c/marcodallaquila/ Libro Terzo; the Francesco intabulation is No. 110b in the HUP edition). I show something like that in an article in the Proceedings of the International Lute Symposium, Utrecht 1986 pp. 30-49, with a stemma on page 39. AJN - Original Message - From: "Stewart McCoy" <[3]lu...@tiscali.co.uk> To: "Lute Net" <[4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 9:02 AM Subject: [LUTE] Il me suffit in Ms Mus 2987 > Dear Arthur, > > Many thanks for your message. I now realise that what at first appears > to be a useless, difficult-to-read intabulation of Il me suffit, is in > fact a necessary half-way house, assuming one is trying to intabulate > polyphonic music from a set of partbooks where there are no barlines. > You have to create a score first to be able to intabulate the piece for > solo lute. > > It also restores my faith in Virdung. His intabulation is a similar > half-way house. Showing the intabulation process would have been more > use to his readers than just giving them a finished intabulation they > could find anywhere. > > Best wishes, > > Stewart. > > -Original Message- > From: A. J. Ness [mailto:arthurjn...@verizon.net] > Sent: 10 October 2011 00:09 > To: Stewart McCoy; Lute Net > Subject: Re: [LUTE] Il me suffit in Ms Mus 2987 > > Dear Stewart, > > Mus Ms 2987 is a fascicle manuscript. That is several (3?) manuscripts > bound together in the mid-19th century. (One fascicle is in the hand of > Melchior Newsidler. Willi Apel has published the keyboard pieces.) Some > of > the pages were discovered in 1840 loose in one of the huge Lassus choir > books (5 foot tall!), where they must have been for two centuries. > > I see no reason to doubt that they are the first stage in making an > intabulation. There is, however, an unrelated manuscript in the Munich > University library that has German tablature likewise in score format. > But > the pieces are for viols since some parts are labeled "Geygen." There's > lute music in that manuscript also. > > Back across the street to D-Mbs. Mus Ms 1511C has some sketchy pages > (lots > of corrections) of intabuations of "Aspice dominum" by Jachet, followed > by > similar sketchy intabulation of Willaert's "Audi filia." Now in the > middle > of Aspice is a page of German tablature in SATB score format (fol. 3v). > It's a tricky > passage for "Audi filia" that the intabulator worked out in SATB > tablature > score and > then copied into the tablature. At the end of that fascile is a > dedication > to a priest, "Al reverendo patre fra matio." (For a related matter see > my > response to Henner's inquiry.) > > AJN > - Original Message - > From: "Stewart McCoy" <[5]lu...@tiscali.co.uk> > To: "Lute Net" <[6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 5:16 PM > Subject: [LUTE] Il me
[LUTE] Re: Il me suffit in Ms Mus 2987
Dear Stewart, Marie Louisse Martinez-Goellner has an article in English based primarily on the Mus Ms 1511CV sketches in the Dorfmueller Festschrift (copy at Oxford): Title: Ars iocundissima : Festschrift fuer Kurt Dorfmueller zum 60. Geburtstag Editors: Horst Leuchtmann; Robert Muenster Publisher: Tutzing : H. Schneider, 1984. For contents see [1]http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/11452778 I do not recall if she discusses the "Il me suffit" score, but I mention it in my dissertation and reached the same conclusions as you (Scribe W). It seems to be a unicum--I couldn't find the same intabulation elsewhere. The lines below the piece may be attempts at alternate measures for "Il me suffit" or subsequent SATB intabulation which does not come down to us. Notice that the top four lines are crossed off, perhaps because they had been incoroprated into the piece.. Examples of sketches for intabulations are rare. What usually happens is that a lutenist takes an existing intabulation and ornaments it his own style. It saves having to work out all the fingerings to make a playable piece. For example the Francesco intabulation of Jannequin's Battaglia with VII=F uses the same basic intabulation as those by Pacoloni and Marco dall'Aquila, each ornamented slightly differently. (The Marco work is edited, tablature and transcription, in [2]http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepq31c/marcodallaquila/ Libro Terzo; the Francesco intabulation is No. 110b in the HUP edition). I show something like that in an article in the Proceedings of the International Lute Symposium, Utrecht 1986 pp. 30-49, with a stemma on page 39. AJN - Original Message - From: "Stewart McCoy" <[3]lu...@tiscali.co.uk> To: "Lute Net" <[4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 9:02 AM Subject: [LUTE] Il me suffit in Ms Mus 2987 > Dear Arthur, > > Many thanks for your message. I now realise that what at first appears > to be a useless, difficult-to-read intabulation of Il me suffit, is in > fact a necessary half-way house, assuming one is trying to intabulate > polyphonic music from a set of partbooks where there are no barlines. > You have to create a score first to be able to intabulate the piece for > solo lute. > > It also restores my faith in Virdung. His intabulation is a similar > half-way house. Showing the intabulation process would have been more > use to his readers than just giving them a finished intabulation they > could find anywhere. > > Best wishes, > > Stewart. > > -Original Message- > From: A. J. Ness [mailto:arthurjn...@verizon.net] > Sent: 10 October 2011 00:09 > To: Stewart McCoy; Lute Net > Subject: Re: [LUTE] Il me suffit in Ms Mus 2987 > > Dear Stewart, > > Mus Ms 2987 is a fascicle manuscript. That is several (3?) manuscripts > bound together in the mid-19th century. (One fascicle is in the hand of > Melchior Newsidler. Willi Apel has published the keyboard pieces.) Some > of > the pages were discovered in 1840 loose in one of the huge Lassus choir > books (5 foot tall!), where they must have been for two centuries. > > I see no reason to doubt that they are the first stage in making an > intabulation. There is, however, an unrelated manuscript in the Munich > University library that has German tablature likewise in score format. > But > the pieces are for viols since some parts are labeled "Geygen." There's > lute music in that manuscript also. > > Back across the street to D-Mbs. Mus Ms 1511C has some sketchy pages > (lots > of corrections) of intabuations of "Aspice dominum" by Jachet, followed > by > similar sketchy intabulation of Willaert's "Audi filia." Now in the > middle > of Aspice is a page of German tablature in SATB score format (fol. 3v). > It's a tricky > passage for "Audi filia" that the intabulator worked out in SATB > tablature > score and > then copied into the tablature. At the end of that fascile is a > dedication > to a priest, "Al reverendo patre fra matio." (For a related matter see > my > response to Henner's inquiry.) > > AJN > - Original Message - > From: "Stewart McCoy" <[5]lu...@tiscali.co.uk> > To: "Lute Net" <[6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 5:16 PM > Subject: [LUTE] Il me suffit in Ms Mus 2987 > > >> Whilst br
[LUTE] Re: looking for Gastoldi scores
Dear Henner, I gather there are many little known treasures in your lovely city. During my student days I visited the Badische Landesbibliothek mainly to look at a manuscript German tablature that originated in the Ettenheim Benedictine Monastery (Sammelband Mus Bd A 678) . The manuscript has intabulations of Lieder by Hassler, many Lutheran chorale settings and some English pieces. The manuscript also has a five-page treatise in Latin (with some Greek words) at its beginning. Wolfgang Boetticher described it as a treatise on ancient Greek scales, and as a result it has been ignored by lutenists and lute scholars. But he wasn't paying attention. It is a rather elementary treatise on how to intabulate vocal music for the lute using German tablature. So I guess in my small way I also made known another of the treasures of your city. But that Karlsruhe Katalog is so very useful. It is really a major resource for all kinds of research. I often use it several times every day. Regards, Arthur. - Original Message - From: To: "A. J. Ness" ; "Lutenet" Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 1:40 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: looking for Gastoldi scores Dear Arthur, thank you very much. It is a shame that I - living in Karlsruhe - did not know this catalogue. Best wishes, Henner "A. J. Ness" schrieb: Dear Henner, Sorry I gave a link to the Karlsruhe Connection in my first response to David van Ooijen's query: > Modern scores by London Pro musica and by Heugel (and others) are > available on the antiquarian market. > Use the Karlsruhe Connection if you want to purchase > http://www.ubka.uni-karlsruhe.de/kvk_en.html > > Check the last column (antiquarian book dealers) and search on (title) > Balletti and (author) Gastoldi. I found about a dozen "hits." There > also > seem to be original copies in the > National Library of the Netherlands, so you > might check that box too (17th-century reprints???). It is a fantastic search tool. One can search for books, scores, recordings, etc., in about 100 libraries around the world, including the union catalogues** of Great Britain, Italy, France, Canada, U.S. (foundation for the "World Catalgue"***), Austria, Luxembourg, Israel, Portugal, Spain, etc. It also searches a dozen select antiquarian catalogues such as Abebooks and Alibris (they also have international coverage). You should take a look at it now, so you have an idea of its resources. ** A union catalogue attempts to provide a listing (with location) of books in ALL libraries in a given country. *** http://www.worldcat.org/ You can open a free account with the World Catalogue and save titles of interest to you in various bibliographical formats. Lists can be public or private. If you provide your city or ZIP Code, the catalogue will arrange the "hits" by distance from your home (including mileage). There are more "Finding Tools" on Wayne Cripps' lute page: http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute/Sources.html ajn - Original Message - From: To: "A. J. Ness" ; "Lutenet" Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 1:12 AM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: looking for Gastoldi scores > What is the "Karlsruhe Connection" please? > > Henner > > "A. J. Ness" schrieb: >> David, >> >> There was (is) a choral library like ISMLP and it joined ISMLP just a >> few >> weeks ago. At least I recall hearing an announcement like that. It's >> wise >> to check the antiquarian dealers on the Karlsruhe Connection. The >> coverage >> is international, and frequently they'll have what you want. Usually >> at >> a >> reasonable price. >> >> arthur. >> - Original Message - >> From: "David van Ooijen" >> To: "lutelist Net" >> Cc: "Arthur Ness" >> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 4:06 PM >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: looking for Gastoldi scores >> >> >> > Dear Arthur >> > >> >> The 1596 Phalèse parts are now available on ISMLP: >> >> http://imslp.org/ >> > >> > And I completely missed it at my earlier visit to the IMSLP. >> > >> > Once more you saved my life (it had been saved by Anton already, >> > with >> > a trombone arrangement no less, which perfectly served the purpose >> > as >> > it was, but the original ... who can resist?!) >> > >> > Thanks again! >> > >> > David >> > >> > >> > -- >> > *** >> > David van Ooijen >> > davidvanooi...@gmail.com >> > www.davidvanooijen.nl >> > *** >> > >> > >> > >> > To get on or off this list see list information at >> > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> >> >> > > > -- > Dr. Henner Kahlert > In der Tasch 2a > D 76227 Karlsruhe (Durlach) > Tel. 0721-403353 > Tel. Büro 0721-23984 > Fax Büro 0721-20978 > -- Dr. Henner Kahlert In der Tasch 2a D 76227 Karlsruhe (Durlach) Tel. 0721-403353 Tel. Büro 0721-23984 Fax Büro 0721-20978
[LUTE] Re: Il me suffit in Ms Mus 2987
Dear Stewart, Mus Ms 2987 is a fascicle manuscript. That is several (3?) manuscripts bound together in the mid-19th century. (One fascicle is in the hand of Melchior Newsidler. Willi Apel has published the keyboard pieces.) Some of the pages were discovered in 1840 loose in one of the huge Lassus choir books (5 foot tall!), where they must have been for two centuries. I see no reason to doubt that they are the first stage in making an intabulation. There is, however, an unrelated manuscript in the Munich University library that has German tablature likewise in score format. But the pieces are for viols since some parts are labeled "Geygen." There's lute music in that manuscript also. Back across the street to D-Mbs. Mus Ms 1511C has some sketchy pages (lots of corrections) of intabuations of "Aspice dominum" by Jachet, followed by similar sketchy intabulation of Willaert's "Audi filia." Now in the middle of Aspice is a page of German tablature in SATB score format (fol. 3v). It's a tricky passage for "Audi filia" that the intabulator worked out in SATB tablature score and then copied into the tablature. At the end of that fascile is a dedication to a priest, "Al reverendo patre fra matio." (For a related matter see my response to Henner's inquiry.) AJN - Original Message - From: "Stewart McCoy" To: "Lute Net" Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 5:16 PM Subject: [LUTE] Il me suffit in Ms Mus 2987 Whilst browsing through the lute music at the Bayerische Staatsbibliothek on line, I noticed an extraordinary intabulation of Claudin de Sermisy's Il me suffit in German lute tablature in Ms. Mus. 2987. The manuscript contains music in organ tablature, German lute tablature, French lute tablature and Italian lute tablature. What is so unusual about Il me suffit is that each of the four voices has been given a separate set of rhythm signs. I have only ever seen this once before, which was in Virdung's Musica getutscht und ausgezogen (1511). Seeing the voices intabulated separately in this way helps one understand why the system of one set of conflated rhythm signs evolved as the norm. It is just possible that this copy of Il me suffit was intended for four viols - after all, Hans Gerle used German tablature for viols - but having the four voices so compact, as a score rather than in separate parts, makes me think that the music was intended for lute solo. Underneath Il me suffit is the start of another piece, which I don't recognise. You can see how the scribe drew his "staves" and bar lines before writing in the numbers and letters for the notes with a rhythm sign for each note. There is a description of the manuscript in Boetticher's RISM volume, p. 224. You can see the manuscript at: [1]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0004/bsb00049370/images/inde x.html?id=00049370&fip=qrsqrseayaensdaseayaenqrsxdsydensdas&no=44&seite =15 Stewart McCoy. -- References 1. http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0004/bsb00049370/images/index.html?id=00049370&fip=qrsqrseayaensdaseayaenqrsxdsydensdas&no=44&seite=15 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Menuet for Mandora (Brussels MS 5.619)
- Original Message - From: "Martyn Hodgson" <[1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> To: "Stuart Walsh" <[2]s.wa...@ntlworld.com> Cc: "Lute Net" <[3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 3:30 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Menuet for Mandora (Brussels MS 5.619) > > > Dear Stuart, <<>> > Re repeating minuets and trios: if orchestral practice is anything to > go by, they would have expected repeats in both the minuer and trio it > but with perhaps the DC reprise of the minuet played only once: I > think we often forget these days that many players had rather small > collections of music (we are, of course, tremendously fortunate in > having centuries on tap). <> From many of our earliest music lessons as children we were instructed to ignore the repeat signs on the Da Capo of a minuet (or similar ABA form). I do not know when this convention was introduced. Perhaps in the 19th century. But the repeat on the Da Capo was taken in earlier times, e.g., during the 18th century. Sometimes a minuet has two or more trios (especially in serenades and divertimentos), and then you will invariably see the instruction at the end of both Trios, "Menuetto da capo senza repetizione." It is a warning not to follow the "usual" practice of observing the repeats during the Da Capo when there is one Trio. > I'll leave ralls and the like to personal taste > > Martyn -- References 1. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 2. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com 3. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Robert de Visee
Hello, Caius! I always look first at ISMLP (International Score Music Library Project): http://imslp.org/ Check composers under letter V. You'll find the facsimile of one of Visee's two printed tablatures (the 1686 one). This fabulous collection of 122,899 public domain scores was started by a Canadian high school student. And he named it, appropriately, "Petrucci Music Library." Had a run in with a powerful Austrian music publisher who tried to close him down. But he prevailed. It's nice to see you are getting lots of performances. Did you make the baroque guitar yourself? Arthur - Original Message - From: "hera caius" To: Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 9:21 AM Subject: [LUTE] Robert de Visee Hello lutenists and guitarists, I am very interested to play some Robert de Visee on my baroque guitar, anyone can help me find on internet his books? Thank you in advance, Caius -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: looking for Gastoldi scores
Dear Henner, Sorry I gave a link to the Karlsruhe Connection in my first response to David van Ooijen's query: Modern scores by London Pro musica and by Heugel (and others) are available on the antiquarian market. Use the Karlsruhe Connection if you want to purchase http://www.ubka.uni-karlsruhe.de/kvk_en.html Check the last column (antiquarian book dealers) and search on (title) Balletti and (author) Gastoldi. I found about a dozen "hits." There also seem to be original copies in the National Library of the Netherlands, so you might check that box too (17th-century reprints???). It is a fantastic search tool. One can search for books, scores, recordings, etc., in about 100 libraries around the world, including the union catalogues** of Great Britain, Italy, France, Canada, U.S. (foundation for the "World Catalgue"***), Austria, Luxembourg, Israel, Portugal, Spain, etc. It also searches a dozen select antiquarian catalogues such as Abebooks and Alibris (they also have international coverage). You should take a look at it now, so you have an idea of its resources. ** A union catalogue attempts to provide a listing (with location) of books in ALL libraries in a given country. *** http://www.worldcat.org/ You can open a free account with the World Catalogue and save titles of interest to you in various bibliographical formats. Lists can be public or private. If you provide your city or ZIP Code, the catalogue will arrange the "hits" by distance from your home (including mileage). There are more "Finding Tools" on Wayne Cripps' lute page: http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute/Sources.html ajn ----- Original Message - From: To: "A. J. Ness" ; "Lutenet" Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 1:12 AM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: looking for Gastoldi scores What is the "Karlsruhe Connection" please? Henner "A. J. Ness" schrieb: David, There was (is) a choral library like ISMLP and it joined ISMLP just a few weeks ago. At least I recall hearing an announcement like that. It's wise to check the antiquarian dealers on the Karlsruhe Connection. The coverage is international, and frequently they'll have what you want. Usually at a reasonable price. arthur. - Original Message - From: "David van Ooijen" To: "lutelist Net" Cc: "Arthur Ness" Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 4:06 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: looking for Gastoldi scores > Dear Arthur > >> The 1596 Phalèse parts are now available on ISMLP: >> http://imslp.org/ > > And I completely missed it at my earlier visit to the IMSLP. > > Once more you saved my life (it had been saved by Anton already, with > a trombone arrangement no less, which perfectly served the purpose as > it was, but the original ... who can resist?!) > > Thanks again! > > David > > > -- > *** > David van Ooijen > davidvanooi...@gmail.com > www.davidvanooijen.nl > *** > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Dr. Henner Kahlert In der Tasch 2a D 76227 Karlsruhe (Durlach) Tel. 0721-403353 Tel. Büro 0721-23984 Fax Büro 0721-20978
[LUTE] Re: looking for Gastoldi scores
David, There was (is) a choral library like ISMLP and it joined ISMLP just a few weeks ago. At least I recall hearing an announcement like that. It's wise to check the antiquarian dealers on the Karlsruhe Connection. The coverage is international, and frequently they'll have what you want. Usually at a reasonable price. arthur. - Original Message - From: "David van Ooijen" To: "lutelist Net" Cc: "Arthur Ness" Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 4:06 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: looking for Gastoldi scores Dear Arthur The 1596 Phalèse parts are now available on ISMLP: http://imslp.org/ And I completely missed it at my earlier visit to the IMSLP. Once more you saved my life (it had been saved by Anton already, with a trombone arrangement no less, which perfectly served the purpose as it was, but the original ... who can resist?!) Thanks again! David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: looking for Gastoldi scores
David, Several scores are available. The piece "Lo Schernito=Se ben vedi o vita mia" is in Gastoldi's five-voice Balletti of 1595, 1596 and 1591 ( etc.--many early edtions). Modern scores by London Pro musica and by Heugel (and others) are available on the antiquarian market. Use the Karlsruhe Connection if you want to purchase http://www.ubka.uni-karlsruhe.de/kvk_en.html Check the last column (antiquarian book dealers) and search on (title) Balletti and (author) Gastoldi. I found about a dozen "hits." There also seem to be original copies in the National Library of the Netherlands, so you might check that box too (17th-century reprints???). The 1596 Phalèse parts are now available on ISMLP: http://imslp.org/ OR http://imslp.org/wiki/Category:Gastoldi,_Giovanni_Giacomo No. 5 Lo Schernito="Se ben vedi o vita mia." After a quick look, the volumes arr. for recorder do not seem to have the five-voice piece. Just three-voice pieces with similar title. Beware of antiquarian prices. One seller was asking 250 Euros for a facsimile publ. 1970 in Brussels. arthur - Original Message - From: "David van Ooijen" To: "lutelist Net" Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 3:58 AM Subject: [LUTE] looking for Gastoldi scores Could some kind soul with a recorder-past (or present) rummage through his/her old music and find the score of Gastoldi's - Lo Schernito (a5) from 1595 for me? I believe there is a London Pro Musica edition, and a Peters edition from 1970 in which it's listed, but cannot seem to get my hands on either. Facsimile would be even better, but we cannot hope for too much. David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: [Le_luth] Dedillo
The McClintock translation is available from A-R Editions, agents for the publisher, American Institute of Musicology (a private organization, not the AMS). See their website. The price has apparenty not been raised since the book appeared in the 1960s. It's still about $25. Quite a bargain. - Original Message - From: To: "Martin Shepherd" Cc: "Lute List" Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 12:04 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: [Le_luth] Dedillo "...the way the 7 course vihuela players did it was strictly mental- by tuning the 4th course down from f to e, and just "thinking" of it as G instrument with a "high" treble course..." I have personally done this in situations requiring a D bass lute, (lute duets/ensemble, bass singers, playing a bass viol part) -but having only a 7-course tenor G lute available. It's a really fun mental kick when you finally fool yourself into feeling that your 1st course actually is a high 7th course. Dan __ -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute Music Online
Hello Nancy,
And thanks, Sean, for the information on using Firefox. I perhaps should
download it. I used it years ago.
I've not tried to download from Folger, Nancy.
Using Internet Explorer,
Yes, you can download from the London site, but as far as I can tell you
have to do it frame by frame. There is one continuous file at the top, but
I have been unable to download it.
Someone should ask the library how to do
it using IExplorer. Perhaps we do
not have the proper browser. Or perhaps one must login.
The library should be clearer on p[rocedures for downloading.
To download frame by frame with IE, start by using the first "pretty
picture" link. Open the first frame. You
advance through the frames by clicking on the arrow ("> NEXT") which appears
when
the cursor is inside the right page. To download the frame, put your cursor
at the bottom
of the frame. Little frames will appear across the bottom. With guides
below
|| || this one |_|
The one without the underline ("this one") is the current frame. Right
click on that
little frame and save as "Save picture as." Then advance (> NEXT) and do
the same.
When all frames are downloaded, one
can use Adobe Acrobat to combine all the frames into one continuous file.
That seems so involved, that surely there is an easier way.
Anyway it is an exciting resource, and includes some major lute print.
For the contents of prints, use Howard Mayer Brown, Instrumental Music
printed before 1600. Some prints have the individual titles spelled out in
the desriptive paragraphs.
- Original Message -
From: "Nancy Carlin"
To: "lute"
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 4:04 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute Music Online
Yes, thank you. It's a wonderful resource. I have not tried to print
anything from the British Museum but ran into a problem with the things
on the Folger Shakespeare Library site that was mentioned a few days
ago. I don't know if I was not doing the right thing or if they did
not want anyone to be able to get the individual pages with the music
on them. I managed to print a page that came out about 3 inches wide
and when I blew it up in photoshop the resolution was made it
impossible to read.
Does anyone have any solutions to this?
Nancy
Thanks for the link. There's some really interesting stuff there!
I didn't see a way to download files, though. Can one only view
them?
Chris
Christopher Wilke
Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
[1]www.christopherwilke.com
> -Original Message-
> From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
> [[2] mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu]
> On Behalf
> Of A. J. Ness
> Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2011 7:10 AM
> To: Lute List
> Subject: [LUTE] Lute Music Online
>
> In Progress. Search on "lute"
>
>
>
> [1]http://www.earlymusiconline.org/
>
>
>
> And thanks to a colleague in the UK who tipped me
> off.
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 1. [3]http://www.earlymusiconline.org/
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>
>
>
>
Nancy Carlin Associates
P.O. Box 6499
Concord, CA 94524 USA
phone 925/686-5800 fax 925/680-2582
web sites - [5]www.nancycarlinassociates.com
[6]www.groundsanddivisions.info
Representing:
FROM WALES - Crasdant & Carreg Lafar, FROM ENGLAND - Jez Lowe & Jez
Lowe & The Bad Pennies, and now representing EARLY MUSIC - The Venere
Lute Quartet, The Good Pennyworths & Morrongiello & Young
Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA
web site - [7]http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org
--
References
1. http://www.christopherwilke.com/
2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
3. http://www.earlymusiconline.org/
4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
5. http://www.nancycarlinassociates.com/
6. http://www.groundsanddivisions.info/
7. http://lutesocietyofamerica.org/
[LUTE] Re: Lute Music Online
Go here to search: http://digirep.rhul.ac.uk/access/home.do - Original Message - From: "A. J. Ness" To: "Lute List" Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 6:10 PM Subject: [LUTE] Lute Music Online In Progress. Search on "lute" [1]http://www.earlymusiconline.org/ And thanks to a colleague in the UK who tipped me off. -- References 1. http://www.earlymusiconline.org/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Lute Music Online
In Progress. Search on "lute" [1]http://www.earlymusiconline.org/ And thanks to a colleague in the UK who tipped me off. -- References 1. http://www.earlymusiconline.org/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Galilei lute works
Somewhere Galilei boasts that he had written 1000 (2000?) passamezzi. Those gagliardas contain some of the best of his original music. The one Respighi uses as the first movement in his Antique Dances is the Polymnia Gagliarda from the anteriori Galilei 6 manuscript. He casts it into an ABA form, the middle section being called "Italiana" in the original source. (It's a bagpipe piece.) But it is not by Galilei, but comes from an unrelated manuscript copied by a Nurnberg merchant (now know as the the Chilesotti Codice Lauten-Buch). Alas it is often attributed falsely to Galilei, especially in guitar books AJN - Original Message - From: "Sean Smith" To: "lute" Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 11:52 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Galilei lute works This is an amazing source. V. Galilei could apparently write a galliard or variation as easily as we could fill in a daily crossword puzzle. I think I counted 200 variations on the Romanesca in every conceivable key (or for every size lute all in the same key) and the galliards are wonderful. Vincenzo writes in a clearly legible hand (i- tab, of course) although there is some unfortunate water damage making some passages difficult though not impossible. It also includes an informative introduction by Orlando Cristoforetti in Italian and English. Being a SPES edition it's relatively inexpensive. Sean On Aug 6, 2011, at 7:25 AM, A. J. Ness wrote: A bit more, Benny. The edition cited by Stephen contains gagliarde from an important Galilei dance source, an immense manuscript compiled by him perhaps in anticipation of additional printed tablatures. It contains clean copies of 275 pieces! Libro d'Intauolatura di liuto . . . composte in diuersi tempi da Vincentio Galilei scritto l'anno 1584, Ms. Fondo anteriori di Galileo 6, in the Biblioteca nationale centrale in Florence. There is a facsimile edition, edited by Orlando Christoforetti (Florence: S.P.E.S, 1991). The gagliarde published by Giulia Perni come from part three of the manuscript and have descriptive titles, e.g., Polymnia (the muse of sacred music--used in Respighi's Ancient Airs and Dances), Amarilli, Clio, Calliope, etc. There is a second section of gagliarde by "Autori diversi," but no composer attributions are given; many of the pieces are by Santino Garsi da Parma, however. Otherwise the manuscript contains passamezzos, romanescas, and saltarellos, most with many virtuoso varied reprises. AJN - Original Message - From: <[1]be...@interlog.com> To: "LuteNet list" <[2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 11:19 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Galilei lute works Thanks, folks! BCS Quoting Stephen Arndt <[3]stephenar...@earthlink.net>: I found this in our local music library a few years ago and rather liked it: Le gagliarde dal Libro d'intavolatura di liuto (Gal; 6): edizione critica con intavolature per liuto e con trascrizione in notazione moderna Responsibility Vincenzo Galilei; a cura di Giulia Perni Publication Info Publication Information: Pisa: Edizioni ETS, (c)2000 -Original Message- From: [4]be...@interlog.com Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 11:41 AM To: LuteNet list Subject: [LUTE] Galilei lute works Hi, folks - a couple questions about Galilei lute works: Is the Primo Libro D'intavolatura di Liuto the only collection of his stuff, or did he write more? I've got the Edizioni Suvini Zerboni of this book - found it in the Toronto library. Would anyone know how where I might go to find my own copy? Thank - hope everyone is enjoying the summer - BCS To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:be...@interlog.com 2. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:stephenar...@earthlink.net 4. mailto:be...@interlog.com 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Galilei lute works
A bit more, Benny. The edition cited by Stephen contains gagliarde from an important Galilei dance source, an immense manuscript compiled by him perhaps in anticipation of additional printed tablatures. It contains clean copies of 275 pieces! Libro d'Intauolatura di liuto . . . composte in diuersi tempi da Vincentio Galilei scritto l'anno 1584, Ms. Fondo anteriori di Galileo 6, in the Biblioteca nationale centrale in Florence. There is a facsimile edition, edited by Orlando Christoforetti (Florence: S.P.E.S, 1991). The gagliarde published by Giulia Perni come from part three of the manuscript and have descriptive titles, e.g., Polymnia (the muse of sacred music--used in Respighi's Ancient Airs and Dances), Amarilli, Clio, Calliope, etc. There is a second section of gagliarde by "Autori diversi," but no composer attributions are given; many of the pieces are by Santino Garsi da Parma, however. Otherwise the manuscript contains passamezzos, romanescas, and saltarellos, most with many virtuoso varied reprises. AJN - Original Message - From: <[1]be...@interlog.com> To: "LuteNet list" <[2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 11:19 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Galilei lute works > Thanks, folks! BCS > > Quoting Stephen Arndt <[3]stephenar...@earthlink.net>: > >> I found this in our local music library a few years ago and rather liked it: >> >> Le gagliarde dal Libro d'intavolatura di liuto (Gal; 6): edizione >> critica con intavolature per liuto e con trascrizione in notazione >> moderna >> Responsibility >> Vincenzo Galilei; a cura di Giulia Perni >> Publication Info >> Publication Information: Pisa: Edizioni ETS, (c)2000 >> >> >> >> -Original Message- From: [4]be...@interlog.com >> Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 11:41 AM >> To: LuteNet list >> Subject: [LUTE] Galilei lute works >> >> Hi, folks - a couple questions about Galilei lute works: >> >> Is the Primo Libro D'intavolatura di Liuto the only collection of his >> stuff, or did he write more? >> >> I've got the Edizioni Suvini Zerboni of this book - found it in the >> Toronto library. Would anyone know how where I might go to find my own >> copy? Thank - hope everyone is enjoying the summer - BCS >> >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > -- References 1. mailto:be...@interlog.com 2. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:stephenar...@earthlink.net 4. mailto:be...@interlog.com 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Terzi
Susanne has also published an edition of the Terzi fantasias for A-R Editions in Wisconsin. Check their web site. It incudes transcriptions and Italian tablature (both published separately--not parallel). AJN - Original Message - From: "Bruno Correia" To: "List LUTELIST" Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 6:43 PM Subject: [LUTE] Terzi In the archives of the Otago University, there is also Susanne Court's Thesis on the intabulations of Giovanni Antonio Terzi: [1]http://hdl.handle.net/10523/466 Regards. -- References 1. http://hdl.handle.net/10523/466 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] (2 of 2) Judentanz (was) Re: What's the point to 'historical sound'
Part 2: Continuation
Hans Newsidler's 1544 book gives extended tuning instructions for the
Judentanz, resulting in this scordatura tuning, as I explained:
[G-g]_d-d'_d-d'_a-a_d'-d'_f#'.
The 6th course is not used. Like a few other pieces in Newsidler's
books the Judentanz seems to be intended for a five-course lute.
Here is a facsimile from the 1544 print. Those who compare it will see
that Willi Apel and Adolf Koczirz have transcribed it accurately (pace
G. Crona).
[1]https://eee.uci.edu/programs/rgarfias/jtanz/jtanz.html
Notice the "t" in the seventh line of the tuning instructions,
. . . die Ebrer quint saitten muss man dem t gleich ziehen,
. . .
In German tablature "t" is the fourth fret on the second (d') course =
f#' in G tuning. The top course (Quintsaite) is tuned a half tone lower
than usual to the note of the 4th fret of the second course
(Kleinsangsaite which HN calls Sangsaite [1536 book, sig. aiiij]).
When the piece is played from the German tablature using that
scordatura, it produces a bitonal piece with a D_a_d' drone in the
lower courses and a florid upper part on a modal scale on c#. (Perhaps
it imitates bagpipe music.)
||: c#_b#_c#_d# :|| _c#_b#_bnat_a_D |.
In French tablature:
||: (Ist tuned to f#:) h_g_h_k :|| _h_g_f_ (IInd tuned to d:) h_
(IVth tuned to D:) a || (fits nicely under the hand)
Apel considered the piece musical satire. In 1529 invading Turks drove
Newsidler from his hometown of Bratislava, and surely he was acquainted
with Mehter (Turkish military musicians, who led the warriors into
battle). The Judentanz might very well represent what to Newsidler's
western ears sounded like eastern music. Newsidler's books were
compiled from material used to instruct his children, and are filled
with evocative dances that would appeal to youngsters. The eldest,
Melchior Newsidler (b. 1531), would already have become a 13-year-old
lute virtuoso when the Judentanz was published. One can easily imagine
that an exuberant young Melchior, or his kid brother Conrad, might
have delighted in playing this exotic bitonal music. Perhaps like
Mozart, they may have found bitonality to be a back-slappin' musical
joke. And would have a good giggle at its end.
Newsidler's admonition to "play the piece nimbly, since otherwise it
might not sound very well" recalls Alfonso de Mudarra's similar advice
with the Ludovico Fantasia. Mudarra warns that the piece has
dissonances when played well do not sound poorly ("Algunas falsas
taniendose bien no parecen mal"). And again bitonality is used to make
a joke: Ludovico plays so fast, he becomes confused and plays cross
relations, some simultaneously..
Not until 1960 did anyone question the piece's bitonality. In the LSJ 2
(1960): 9-12 ("Ayre on the F # String"), Michael Morrow offered an
alternate reading by suggesting that the tuning instructions contained
a convenient typo.
Morrow proposed that the "t" was intended to be "et," the German
tablature sign for the fifth fret on the 2nd course (=g'). The glyph
for "et" looks like a 7 with a line through its middle (NOT a dash
above the cipher, as Crona claims). Morrow argued that the typesetter
had mistaken the "et" for a "t" since they looked similar.
Reading the "t" as an "et" would tune the top course to the usual g'
rather than f#', and the D-a-d' drone would have a florid, repetitious
modal d melody to match the D_a_d' drone, making it tonally unified on
D. The piece becomes rather commonplace, and overly repetitious.
Could Newsidler have missed the typo when he proofread the piece? He
surely would have carefully read something as important and as
complicated as tuning instructions. And notice how the "t" stands out
prominently in the middle of the page. The typesetter had set page
after page of German lute tablature. By time he got to the Judentanz
which closes the book, he would have recognized the difference between
"et" and "t," whether he could read tablature or not.
Let's take one last look at the prescription for tuning the top string.
Did we miss anything?
. . . die Ebrer quint saitten muss man dem t gleich ziehen, . . .
Oh yes. Almost forgot. Ebrer? Italian: Ebreo. Modern German:
Ebraeer, Hebraeer English: Hebrew. The "Erbrer Quintsaite," for which
the correct cipher is, therefore, "t" (f#'), as printed.
AJN
- Original Message -
From: "G. Crona"
To: "Lutelist"
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2011 4:05 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: What's the point to 'historical sound'
> Many thanks to Nancy and Denys for the interesting Renbourn interview
from
> LSA Quarterly Sept. 06!
>
> Especially funny to read about the Newsidler "Judentanz" that had
> musicologists baffled in those early days because they couldn't read
the
> German
[LUTE] Re: (1 of 2) Judentanz (was) Re: What's the point to 'historical sound'
Dear Andreas,
Thank you very much for the citations in the AMZ. It would have taken me a
week to find them. At my age, I remember information, but cannot recall
where I found it, or where I've filed it away.
You wrote:
There's a last sentence after your citation: "unn die Ebrer quint saitten
muß man dem t (= 2nd course 4th fret) gleich ziehen/ so ist der zug
recht." The question is: What's the "Ebrer quint saitten"? Is it the
octave string of the 4th course (perhaps really the same string type as
the Quint saitten alias 1st course)? I will ask the specialist and
inform you and the list.
Newsidler calls the octave string of the fifth course "Kleinsaitte," and
even defines it as <>
So it's tuned to the cipher 4 (=second course open; NOT fourth fret). See
the facsimile that I'll post with part 2. Also I comment on that last
sentence. It's a five course lute, so the top string is the Quintsaitte.
As far as I know the standard designation in German lute terminology for the
top
course is "Quintsaite," because German tablature was originally devised for
a five course instrument. Modern German for the top string of any string
instrument, e.g., violin, guitar, is <>
The second course in called <>.
Here are the courses as I understand them to be called in German:
I. Quintsaite
II. Kleinsangsaite
III. Grosssangsaite
IV.Kleinbrummer
V.Mittelbrummer
VI.Grossbrummer
Thanks for you input, Andi. I've been very busy, so part two will still
follow.
Arthur
- Original Message -
From: "Andreas Schlegel"
To: "A. J. Ness"
Cc: "G. Crona" ; "Lutelist"
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 3:40 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: (1 of 2) Judentanz (was) Re: What's the point to
'historical sound'
Dear Arthur,
Thanks very much for your reply! And sorry for the corrections - the
Trafficante system is neither made for splitted octave strings nor for
octave transpositions... and I realized my mistake too late...
Thank you very much for your comments. I have a vague recollection that
German tablature was discussed somewhere in the Allgemeine musikalische
Zeitung early in the 19th century, but exactly when, I cannot recall.
And
of course Baron mentions German
tablature, apparently the first mention for over a century. He even
reproduces the Newsidler Lautenkragen.
Of course there exist older citations of the old treatises with the
"Lautenkragen" - but the Pearsall transcriptions were the first - as far I
know - for practical use. Joachim Lüdtke and me made a list of all (we
hope) tablature transcriptions from Kiesewetter (I think that's you meant,
it's in AMZ 1831, nr. 3, col. 33-38; nr. 5, col. 65-74 and Beilage 1, p.
2-4; nr. 9, col. 133-145 and Beilage 3, p. 1-8; nr. 12, col. 181-186; nr.
16, col. 249-259; nr. 17, col. 272-276; nr. 23, col. 365-376 and Beilage
4, p.1-4) up to the beginning of the 20th century. We will publish this
list on www.accordsnouveaux.ch under "book - The Lute in Europe 2" -
"material" - but first only in German. It's one of the lists who had no
place in the book...
Thank you for reminding me about Podolski's article. I re-read it again
early this morning. I had forgotten about it. I think he may misread the
German when he sets
forth his idea of a split course. The instructions say to tune the
"Kleinsaitte die Newen dem mitl Brumer stet, der zieffer fuern, gleich
als
da 4" (the octave string [Kleinsaite] next to the fifth string) to the
second course ("4"
in German tablature), not to the fourth fret of the second course. Ziffer
means a number or cipher, and a fret would be Bund or Gryff (as HN spells
it). To spell it out as Fuern (Vier?) and then as a number ("4") is just
the kind of redundancy one finds in writigs back then. Anyway, that's my
take on it. What do you think? How does he get fret out of that?
It's really a very tricky text - even for a native speaker. So I have to
ask a specialist for this language to work together on that. I will inform
when it's done.
But I think Podolski has not misread. There's a last sentence after your
citation: "unn die Ebrer quint saitten muß man dem t (= 2nd course 4th
fret) gleich ziehen/ so ist der zug recht." The question is: What's the
"Ebrer quint saitten"? Is it the octave string of the 4th course (perhaps
really the same string type as the Quint saitten alias 1st course)? I will
ask the specialist and inform you and the list.
Incidentally, it seems that Newsidler might have
a special name for the first course when tuned to that fourth fret
(cipher
"t"). See part 2.
Otherwise it's a rather detailed and complicated discussion of the
various
Judentänze and much derives from Heckel's Judentanz of 1556. He seems to
w
[LUTE] Re: (1 of 2) Judentanz (was) Re: What's the point to 'historical sound'
Dear Andreas,
Thank you very much for your comments. I have a vague recollection that
German tablature was discussed somewhere in the Allgemeine musikalische
Zeitung early in the 19th century, but exactly when, I cannot recall. And
of course Baron mentions German
tablature, apparently the first mention for over a century. He even
reproduces the Newsidler Lautenkragen.
Thank you for reminding me about Podolski's article. I re-read it again
early this morning. I had forgotten about it. I think he may misread the
German when he sets
forth his idea of a split course. The instructions say to tune the
"Kleinsaitte die Newen dem mitl Brumer stet, der zieffer fuern, gleich als
da 4" (the octave string [Kleinsaite] next to the fifth string) to the
second course ("4"
in German tablature), not to the fourth fret of the second course. Ziffer
means a number or cipher, and a fret would be Bund or Gryff (as HN spells
it). To spell it out as Fuern (Vier?) and then as a number ("4") is just
the kind of redundancy one finds in writigs back then. Anyway, that's my
take on it. What do you think? How does he get fret out of that?
Incidentally, it seems that Newsidler might have
a special name for the first course when tuned to that fourth fret (cipher
"t"). See part 2.
Otherwise it's a rather detailed and complicated discussion of the various
Judentänze and much derives from Heckel's Judentanz of 1556. He seems to
want to apply the Heckel tuning to the Newsidler piece, and really doesn';t
address the scordatura tuning as spelled out by HN..
Did you go to Gijon? I hear it was a wonderful conference, and wish so much
that I could have attended.
Grüß, Arthur.
----- Original Message -
From: "Andreas Schlegel"
To: "A. J. Ness"
Cc: "G. Crona" ; "Lutelist"
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:52 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: (1 of 2) Judentanz (was) Re: What's the point to
'historical sound'
The oldest transcriptions from German tablature I know date from 1848 to
1852 and were probably made by Robert (de) Pearsall. He transcribed D-Bds
40588 from German tablature to old fashioned guitar notation. This
original manuscript was then in the library of the Wildegg castle 25 km
from my home.
http://www.ag.ch/wildegg/en/pub/
The transcription is here: Burgerbibliothek Bern, Ms.Hist.Helv.XLIV.135.
Later, in 1876, Anselm Schubiger wrote: System der Lauten. Aus einem
Manuscript vom Jahre 1532 [!], in: Monatshefte für Musikgeschichte 8
(1876), Nr. 1, S. 6-7. He clearly refers to the same source.
About the Judentanz tuning:
The first person who realized the splitted tuning of the 4th course was
IMHO Michel Podolski:
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Bio/Podolski-Michel.htm
Michel Podolski: Le Juden tantz. Analyse et transcription, in: Revue Belge
de Musicologie XVII, 1963, pp. 29ff. In tablature equivalent notation,
this is ffh(e/a)h, in a-tuning:
a1
e1 e1
b1 b1
(g#1 e)
ee
aA (not used, only supposed).
Podolski reads the tuning instruction as follows: "Tune the 5th course
with its octave string to the 2nd course. Tune the 4th course to the same
note. The octave string of the 4th course has to correspondent to the 2nd
course's 4th fret." The 6th course is not used, but supposed to be at the
(second) octave from the first course. This tuning's speciality consists
of the octave string of the 4th course being tuned to another note than
the bass string.
Andreas
Am 27.07.2011 um 02:19 schrieb A. J. Ness:
With all due respect, G. Crona, practically everything you have
written here about the Judentanz is erroneous.
Don't you feel an obligation to check the accuracy of your facts before
posting to this list?
I sense a need to set the record straight, lest such misformation reach
a larger audience.
Nor should I permit the memory of one of the most eminent pioneering
scholars of the lute
and its music, Adolf Koczirz, to be maligned. What G. Crona says about
him and
Willi Apel is especially ugly because it is so farfetched.
G. Crona wrote:
Especially funny to read about the Newsidler "Judentanz" that
had
musicologists baffled in those early days because they
couldn't read the
German tablature properly (dash above cipher) and therefore
totally
misjudged the piece as an atonal piece
centuries ahead of its time.
Luckily, thanks to David Munrow who was there on
recorder, they were able
to put things straight. But they still bowed to contemporary
musicologist
knowledge and recorded a faulty atonal version as well.
Shows you never to put too much trust in your contemporary
musicologists!
He-he ;)
<>
I fear the only person baffled around here is G. Crona. In 1911, the
first modern publication
of the Judentanz appeared in Koczirz's edition of Austrian lute music
issued as volume
37
[LUTE] (1 of 2) Judentanz (was) Re: What's the point to 'historical sound'
With all due respect, G. Crona, practically everything you have written here about the Judentanz is erroneous. Don't you feel an obligation to check the accuracy of your facts before posting to this list? I sense a need to set the record straight, lest such misformation reach a larger audience. Nor should I permit the memory of one of the most eminent pioneering scholars of the lute and its music, Adolf Koczirz, to be maligned. What G. Crona says about him and Willi Apel is especially ugly because it is so farfetched. G. Crona wrote: > Especially funny to read about the Newsidler "Judentanz" that had > musicologists baffled in those early days because they couldn't read the > German tablature properly (dash above cipher) and therefore totally > misjudged the piece as an atonal piece > centuries ahead of its time. > > Luckily, thanks to David Munrow who was there on recorder, they were able > to put things straight. But they still bowed to contemporary musicologist > knowledge and recorded a faulty atonal version as well. > > Shows you never to put too much trust in your contemporary musicologists! > He-he ;) <> I fear the only person baffled around here is G. Crona. In 1911, the first modern publication of the Judentanz appeared in Koczirz's edition of Austrian lute music issued as volume 37 of the monumental Denkmaeler der Tonkunst in Oesterreich (Jarhg. XVIII). It was but one of hundreds of transcriptions he made and published from German and other tablatures. A volume of lute music in the DTOe was even assembled from his papers and published posthumously, indicating the extent his work was revered by his colleagues. He was a student of Guido Adler at the University of Vienna. The Judentanz was later published and its notation explicated by Willi Apel in his famous book on the notation of polyphonic music before 1600. Later Apel printed the Newsidler Judentanz in his widely available [Harvard] Historical Anthology of Music (HAM), No. 105b. Interestingly, he did not publish his own transcription, but rather in a bow to his distinguished predecessor, he publisher Koczirz's. (HAM seems to be the fake book used by John Renbourn, judging by the titles of many tracks on his CDs.) Koczirz and Apel were eminent professionals who could properly read German tablature, and well understood the meaning of a dash over a tablature cipher, and other special signs. Apel's book on the notation of polyphonic music before 1600 even includes a chapter on German lute tablature, with extended graphic examples showing how to transcribe it (including a correct explanation of the ciphers with dashes!) . G. Crona's notion that Koczirz and Apel couldn't read German tablature correctly is absurd. THIMK! As a matter of fact, the Koczirz/Apel transcriptions are absolutely correct renditions of the piece according to the tablature and tuning instructions published in Hans Newsidler's 1544 book. If you examine the editions, and compare them with the printed tablature (see below for facsimile), you will discover that theirs were NOT FAULTY READINGS, as Crona would have the readers of this newsgroup believe. AS PUBLISHED IN NEWSIDLER'S 1544 TABLATURE BOOK, THE JUDENTANZ IS A BITONAL* WORK. Actually the dance is partially bitonal, because the cadences are tonally stable. So the piece dips in and out of bitonality, but is rooted in one tonal center, D. To be continued -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Codex Calixtinus (was) Re: Spanish Ren Music (Free downloads)
What a shocker. The Codex Calixtinus is one of the truly great monuments in Western music. There is a color facsimile which sells for several thousand dollars, so it's not entirely lost. Here's some more information, including a facsimile of the famous "Con gaudeant catholici," which is thought to be the first three voice composition (some think it's two voiced, with alternate voice parts). OMI describes the work. http://www.omifacsimiles.com/brochures/calix.html http://www.examiner.com/classical-music-in-national/a-major-document-music-history-goes-missing - Original Message - From: "Monica Hall" To: "A. J. Ness" Cc: "Lutelist" Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 5:29 AM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Spanish Ren Music (Free downloads) Not really relevant - but in the news over here today - it seems that the Codex Calixtinus has been stolen from the Cathedral in Santiago de Compostella. It contains some of the earliest surviving polyphony. So if anyone spots it - let the cathedral know. Monica - Original Message - From: "A. J. Ness" To: "Lute List" Cc: "Vihuelalist" Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 12:42 AM Subject: [LUTE] Spanish Ren Music (Free downloads) There is no vihuela or lute music, YET. But some may be interesting in the free downloads being offered by the National Library of Catalonia. Items include Angles's Antologia de organistas espagnoles, Las Huelgas Manuscript, music by Cabanilles, the Cantigas de Santa Maria, etc. Take a look, and perhaps return to see what gets added. Perhaps they'll get around to vihuela. [1]https://botiga.bnc.cat/resultat_categories.php The site is quirky and I have sometimes been unable to download a score. But then I come back and it works. Arthur. -- References 1. https://botiga.bnc.cat/resultat_categories.php To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Spanish Ren Music (Free downloads)
There is no vihuela or lute music, YET. But some may be interesting in the free downloads being offered by the National Library of Catalonia. Items include Angles's Antologia de organistas espagnoles, Las Huelgas Manuscript, music by Cabanilles, the Cantigas de Santa Maria, etc. Take a look, and perhaps return to see what gets added. Perhaps they'll get around to vihuela. [1]https://botiga.bnc.cat/resultat_categories.php The site is quirky and I have sometimes been unable to download a score. But then I come back and it works. Arthur. -- References 1. https://botiga.bnc.cat/resultat_categories.php To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Giovanni Pietro Franchi (Lute or Violoncello)
Some of you may be interested in this print from the Sibley Library at Eastman. There is organ continuo, and the independent bass line can be played by 'cello (violone on Rome edition) or lute. It is a unicum of Franchi's Opus 1, in an Amsterdam reprint of the edition published in Rome 1685. [1]https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView. action?institutionalItemId=14499&versionNumber=1 ajn -- References 1. https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=14499&versionNumber=1 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Pachelbel B-lute pieces
I see no reason to believe that the suite of pieces at the STADTbibliothek in Nuremberg are not by Pachelbel, Wilhelm Pachelbel, Johann's son. I examined the manuscript many years ago, and once made a half-hearted attempt to trace the pieces to Johann by using the Pachelbel Works Catalogue. But the catalogue is a disaster and really impossible to read--the author's work was assembled posthumously by a non-musician, who didn't even know what "cembalo" meant. The lute pieces in Nurnberg are not mentioned. And are fairly well known in published arrangements for guitar (one by Aziapazu; I think he misreads the titles, but Peter Steur has the correct spelling, iirc). The manuscript appears to have been disbound by a later dealer from a larger manuscript from the Harrach library. It was split up to make easier the sale of smaller lots of pieces. Other parts of the manuscript ended up at the New York Public Library (the bookbinder's glue can be seen on the spines of the fascicles). Others from the manuscript may still be in private possession. This sale was in 1956, when Bob Spencer bought those concertinos and sinfonia with originals in pitch notation (The sinfonia is available on my web site: [1]http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepq31c/arthurjnesslutescores/sinfonia.ht ml AJN - Original Message - From: "Bernd Haegemann" <[2]b...@symbol4.de> To: <[3]baroque-l...@cs.dartmouth.edu>; <[4]theoj89...@aol.com> Sent: Monday, June 06, 2011 3:32 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Pachelbel B-lute pieces > beste Theo, > > >> Are there a few pieces composed by Johann Pachelbel in a baroque lute manuscript somewhere > > [5]http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?lang=deu&id=2&type=mss&st=0&nm=50&ti tle=&key=&msnam=&comp=Pachelbel > > > (does my memory serve me correct)? If so, which manuscript, and do they have any musical > interest? > > > >>Have they been recorded? thanks, trj > > > I only know of one recording: > > [6]http://www.amazon.de/Resveur-Anthony-Bailes/dp/B9VGUU > > > groeten > Bernd > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepq31c/arthurjnesslutescores/sinfonia.html 2. mailto:b...@symbol4.de 3. mailto:baroque-l...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:theoj89...@aol.com 5. http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?lang=deu&id=2&type=mss&st=0&nm=50&title=&key=&msnam=&comp=Pachelbel 6. http://www.amazon.de/Resveur-Anthony-Bailes/dp/B9VGUU 7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Susanne ung jour
It's on folio 12-12v (No. 36). The setting is by Lupus Didier II (not Lasso), intabulated (and in the hand of) by Melchior Newsidler. It's also on my Newsidler page in facsimile, along with a listing of other Newsidler autographs, most in the Bavarian State Library. http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepq31c/arthurjnesslutescores/mn_autographs.html I need to comment on the Tobias Stimmer engraving of MN, in response to Franz Mechsner's question several days ago. I've enlarged the engraving to make it easier to see the details. - Original Message - From: "G. Crona" To: "lute List" Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 1:53 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Susanne ung jour Check out the next to last piece in this document: http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0004/bsb00049370/images/index.html (pages 26 & 27 of the pdf, M. Newsidler) G. - Original Message - From: "Hilbert Jörg" To: "lute List" Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 7:36 PM Subject: [LUTE] Susanne ung jour Dear friends, I am currently working on a very nice flute variation on "Susanne ung jour" by Bassano, which is obviously based on a song of Orlando di Lasso. I am very interested in this song and in additional lute material, but I can't find too much about it in the internet. Does anybody know, if there is some free material out there, which I may not have found yet? Thanks, Jörg To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Shakespeare settings
Yes, but Duffin well documents his sources in the notes for each tune, and so it is possible to find performance versions in the Elizabethan repertory. Such as the Marsh Lute Book, Folger, Ballet, Varietie, Playford, etc. He must cite close to 100 manuscript sources. And a like number of early printed sources, and "select" modern editions. There is also a CD with about half of the songs performed with Paul O'Dette accompanying. Duffin's book really tends towards being a reference source, and a valuable one at that. I checked abebooks and found copies for as little as $13. List price is about $30. - Original Message - From: "Doughtie Ed" To: "G. Crona" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 10:04 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Shakespeare settings Ross W. Duffin's "Shakespeare's Songbook" gives early settings plus tunes from early sources made to fit the Shakespeare texts. He doesn't give accompaniments, much less tablature for Morley, e.g. Ed On Apr 6, 2011, at 7:18 AM, G. Crona wrote: Barley download here: http://www.shipbrook.com/jeff/bookshelf/download.html?bookid=6 G. - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 6:07 PM Subject: [LUTE] Shakespeare settings Hi, all! I'm doing a concert of Renaissance and Restoration settings of Shakespeare lyrics, as well as including some lutesong from the Elizabethan era - Dowland, Pilkington. I've got some Thomas Arne settings of lyrics from As You Like It. Any other suggestions for similar rep? There are a number of singers involved for madrigal singing, as well as theorbo/lute and harpshichord/organ. Thanks! Ben S To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: [lute]"lute music of shakespeare's time' Newcomb
Dear Charles, I looked for this title on the antiquarian market and found about dozen copies ranging in price from an outrageous $45 (30 Euros) to an obscene $85. The book's so bad, it's become notorious--now, in this modern edition from 1966, and back then, in Elizabethan days. The title is misleading. It's not a history of lute music, but rather an edition of William Barley's A New Booke of Tabliture of 1596, which was itself a disaster. Dowland complained about it, because it had so many mistake-filled versions of his music. For example, Barley published the second lute part for a Dowland duet, but not the first lute part. In Newcomb's hands it fairs no better. (He didn't know it was a duet part, either.) One of my favorite Thursdon Dart quotations comes from his review of the edition, "Barley's book bristles with more snags than a teasle, and Newcomb has been caught by rather too many of them."" It may be worth a few dollars as a curiosity. Otherwise, . . . - Original Message - From: "Charles Browne" To: "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 4:27 PM Subject: [LUTE] [lute]"lute music of shakespeare's time' Newcomb Dear lutelist. can anyone tell me whether this book is worth getting, for its music content? I understand that there was an article about it in JSTOR but I cant get it in our library and I was wondering about the book's contents thanks Charles To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Prince Lobkowicz (Was) Re: Saint-Luc again.
I meant to provide a link to an interesting recent article about Prince
Lobkowicz. His family library now has 13 lute manuscripts from the 17th and
18th century, perhaps the largest private collection of such books. They
were formerly in the University Library in Prague. And the gallery has
nearly 450 paintings including works by Bruegel (one of three illustrated in
the slide show, mentioned below), Rubens, Rembrandt, Canaletto, Segher (who
painted the portrait of Jacques de Saint-Luc), Dürer, Holbein, et al. And
weasons enough to outfit an army. Quite a place, and you can imagine the
effect it had on William Lobkowicz when he became, quite by surprise, the
owner and caretaker of some 12 castles, in various states of decay. At age
27.
The article gives a overview of what he received, and its state of decay:
http://www.bostonmagazine.com/articles/the_prince_is_a_pauper/
The slide show at the end gives you an idea of what he inherited, its
condition, including some musical instrumnts. I think you can gert better
depictions if you Google.
AJN
- Original Message -
From: "A. J. Ness"
To: "Greet Schamp"
Cc: "Lute List"
Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 4:42 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Saint-Luc again. Was: Foscarini Experience
Dear Greet,
That is really an exhaustive demonstration of the amount, depth and type
of
research that has been undertaken in regard to musicians in Belgium. I
found it particulaly interest that that there were so many musicians named
van den Linden at court. One named Laurent. I also spotted elsewhere a
Vermeulen who was a dancer, but I'm not certain it was Jean. So with
Philippe that makes two
lutenists. But again a dynastic family, this time mainly dancers, with a
lutenist
or two tossed in for good measure. This is what I mean by dynastic
families
of musicians. Had Jacques de Saint-Luc been a member of such a family,
there would surely be records someplace of his father's and his son's
activities as musicians.
And you make my point about Italian style, with still another lutenist
sent
to Italy to study with members of the Piccinini dynasty. I've never heard
any of Zamponi's chamber music, but understand it is very expressive in an
Italianate manner, as I would describe Saint-Luc's.. There is a short
excerpt from his opera ("in the Venetian style") on YouTube. Saint-Luc's
music is so good, I can't imagine him not being a master of the Italian
style he
inherited while in Brussels.
That Saint-Luc was writing in the "New" Austrian style when he was in
Brussels. Surely he didn't write 200 pieces in the last years of his
life,
after experiencing the "New Austrian
Style." And in addition to those manuscripts copied for Prince Lobkowitz,
there is at least one other from his Flemish days that is lost.
Incidentally all of the Lobkowitz lute manuscripts formerly in the
University Library in Prague have been returned to the family and are
housed
at a castle in Nelahozeves. The current heir, William Lobkowitz was
born in the U.S. He graduated from Harvard College and has a residence on
Beacon Hill here in Boston. I've seen pictures of his from his Harvard
days. He looked just like a sharp Harvard preppie. Can you imagine
what it must have felt like him to awaken one morning to discover that he
was the owner of a dozen crumbling castles in Czechoslovakia,? And it was
his responsibilty to care for them and their treasures. (He got a few
Bruegels to care for, also.)
- Original Message -
From: "Greet Schamp"
To: "'A. J. Ness'" ; "'Martyn Hodgson'"
; "'Monica Hall'"
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 3:14 PM
Subject: RE: [LUTE] Saint-Luc again. Was: Foscarini Experience
Dear all,
Another lutenist Lorenzo Van der Linden at the same Brussels court was
also
sent to Picinini
This article by Godelieve Spiessens, was published in the Yearbook 2010 of
our Belgian Lute Academy, it also mentions Jean Vermeulen at the beginning
notes.
Greetings from the country of Jacques de St Luc
Greet
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Namens
A.
J. Ness
Verzonden: vrijdag 1 april 2011 16:50
Aan: Martyn Hodgson; Monica Hall
CC: Lutelist
Onderwerp: [LUTE] Saint-Luc again. Was: Foscarini Experience
Dear Martyn,
The problem is not that the level of Saint-Luc research is poor. It's
rather
high, and dates back to the 19th century. And it is simply not true that
the principal writers are generalists.
Philippe Vendrix, a lutenist, is one of France's leading musicologists.
He is dean of the Centre d'Études Supériores de la Renaissance,
He is Director of Research for the Centre National de la Recherche
Scientifique,
And he is editor-in-chief of Acta Musicologica (the journal of the
International Musicological So
[LUTE] Re: Saint-Luc again. Was: Foscarini Experience
Dear Greet,
That is really an exhaustive demonstration of the amount, depth and type of
research that has been undertaken in regard to musicians in Belgium. I
found it particulaly interest that that there were so many musicians named
van den Linden at court. One named Laurent. I also spotted elsewhere a
Vermeulen who was a dancer, but I'm not certain it was Jean. So with
Philippe that makes two
lutenists. But again a dynastic family, this time mainly dancers, with a
lutenist
or two tossed in for good measure. This is what I mean by dynastic families
of musicians. Had Jacques de Saint-Luc been a member of such a family,
there would surely be records someplace of his father's and his son's
activities as musicians.
And you make my point about Italian style, with still another lutenist sent
to Italy to study with members of the Piccinini dynasty. I've never heard
any of Zamponi's chamber music, but understand it is very expressive in an
Italianate manner, as I would describe Saint-Luc's.. There is a short
excerpt from his opera ("in the Venetian style") on YouTube. Saint-Luc's
music is so good, I can't imagine him not being a master of the Italian
style he
inherited while in Brussels.
That Saint-Luc was writing in the "New" Austrian style when he was in
Brussels. Surely he didn't write 200 pieces in the last years of his life,
after experiencing the "New Austrian
Style." And in addition to those manuscripts copied for Prince Lobkowitz,
there is at least one other from his Flemish days that is lost.
Incidentally all of the Lobkowitz lute manuscripts formerly in the
University Library in Prague have been returned to the family and are housed
at a castle in Nelahozeves. The current heir, William Lobkowitz was
born in the U.S. He graduated from Harvard College and has a residence on
Beacon Hill here in Boston. I've seen pictures of his from his Harvard
days. He looked just like a sharp Harvard preppie. Can you imagine
what it must have felt like him to awaken one morning to discover that he
was the owner of a dozen crumbling castles in Czechoslovakia,? And it was
his responsibilty to care for them and their treasures. (He got a few
Bruegels to care for, also.)
- Original Message -
From: "Greet Schamp"
To: "'A. J. Ness'" ; "'Martyn Hodgson'"
; "'Monica Hall'"
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 3:14 PM
Subject: RE: [LUTE] Saint-Luc again. Was: Foscarini Experience
Dear all,
Another lutenist Lorenzo Van der Linden at the same Brussels court was also
sent to Picinini
This article by Godelieve Spiessens, was published in the Yearbook 2010 of
our Belgian Lute Academy, it also mentions Jean Vermeulen at the beginning
notes.
Greetings from the country of Jacques de St Luc
Greet
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Namens A.
J. Ness
Verzonden: vrijdag 1 april 2011 16:50
Aan: Martyn Hodgson; Monica Hall
CC: Lutelist
Onderwerp: [LUTE] Saint-Luc again. Was: Foscarini Experience
Dear Martyn,
The problem is not that the level of Saint-Luc research is poor. It's rather
high, and dates back to the 19th century. And it is simply not true that
the principal writers are generalists.
Philippe Vendrix, a lutenist, is one of France's leading musicologists.
He is dean of the Centre d'Études Supériores de la Renaissance,
He is Director of Research for the Centre National de la Recherche
Scientifique,
And he is editor-in-chief of Acta Musicologica (the journal of the
International Musicological Society).
His partner in Saint-Luc research is Manuel Couveur, Professor of Musicology
at the Free University of Brussels.
Between them, they really have all bases covered, French and Flemish, so to
speak (to use an American baseball metaphor). They are positioned not only
by expertise, but also geographically to examine archival records related to
Saint-Luc.
Brussels, may I remind you, was Jacques de Saint-Luc's musical home town.
He was not French. He was trained at court with ITALIAN and SPANISH
musicians, under the director of chamber music, Giuseppe Zamponi. Jacques
performed villancicos at court when he was 13 (was he a Wunderkind?), and
the
court owned vihuelas. His teacher may have been court lutenist/theorbist
Philippe
Vermeulen, who as a youngster was sent by the court to Italy to "perfect"
his abilities on theorbo with Piccinini.
The "cantabile" of his style that Baron remarked
about, was there from the Italian influences of his training. He didn't
write 200 pieces all in Vienna. That he wrote so much music is accounted
for by his attaining the age of at least 96.
I think I resent more than anything your suggestion that he was too old and
feebled to write music and travel, and using that as an excuse to attribute
his works to his
[LUTE] Saint-Luc again. Was: Foscarini Experience
Dear Martyn,
The problem is not that the level of Saint-Luc research is poor. It's rather
high, and dates back to the 19th century. And it is simply not true that
the principal writers are generalists.
Philippe Vendrix, a lutenist, is one of France's leading musicologists.
He is dean of the Centre d'Études Supériores de la Renaissance,
He is Director of Research for the Centre National de la Recherche
Scientifique,
And he is editor-in-chief of Acta Musicologica (the journal of the
International Musicological Society).
His partner in Saint-Luc research is Manuel Couveur, Professor of Musicology
at the Free University of Brussels.
Between them, they really have all bases covered, French and Flemish, so to
speak (to use an American baseball metaphor). They are positioned not only
by expertise, but also geographically to examine archival records related to
Saint-Luc.
Brussels, may I remind you, was Jacques de Saint-Luc's musical home town.
He was not French. He was trained at court with ITALIAN and SPANISH
musicians, under the director of chamber music, Giuseppe Zamponi. Jacques
performed villancicos at court when he was 13 (was he a Wunderkind?), and
the
court owned vihuelas. His teacher may have been court lutenist/theorbist
Philippe
Vermeulen, who as a youngster was sent by the court to Italy to "perfect"
his abilities on theorbo with Piccinini.
The "cantabile" of his style that Baron remarked
about, was there from the Italian influences of his training. He didn't
write 200 pieces all in Vienna. That he wrote so much music is accounted
for by his attaining the age of at least 96.
I think I resent more than anything your suggestion that he was too old and
feebled to write music and travel, and using that as an excuse to attribute
his works to his sons. And he was not in his 90s when he traveled to Berlin.
He was 84. The sensation of his playing may have been due to his age.
Was Verdi feeble-minded when he wrote Otello and Falstaff? What about
Stravinsky?
One would never have expected him to end his career writing serial music.
THERE IS NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER THAT SAINT-LUC'S SONS WERE MUSICIANS.
And you can bet Couveur and Vendrix looked high and low to find them. The
Saint-Lucs were NOT a dynastic family of musicians.
Enough for now. The harm is done, and Couveur and Vendrix have already begun
to set the record straight. Our responsibility is to realize what happened
as a result of those fictional original New Grove and 1963 MGG articles.
The recent New Grove Saint-Luc article has been completely re-written. I
haven't seen the latest MGG. Arthur.
======
To: "A. J. Ness" ; "Monica Hall"
Cc: "Lutelist"
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:59 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Foscarini Experience
Well - as you both already well know - the current level of scholarship
is so poor that the elder and younger Saint Jacques generally appear as
one.
But the real issue is that the real passion and merit of this music is
lost by such a generalist approach.
ythfo
Martyn
--- On Thu, 31/3/11, Monica Hall wrote:
From: Monica Hall
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Foscarini Experience
To: "A. J. Ness"
Cc: "Lutelist"
Date: Thursday, 31 March, 2011, 21:01
Don't even mention Grove - as far as the baroque guitar is concerned it
is full of errors.
Monica
- Original Message - From: "A. J. Ness"
<[1]arthurjn...@verizon.net>
To: "Monica Hall" <[2]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Foscarini Experience
> That's what makes me angry about the Jacques de Saint-Luc article in
New Grove (first ed. and MGG 1963). Musica Rara has puibo. all the
Suittes dessus and bassus, andattributres them one by one to three
different composers named St.Luc.
> - Original Message - From: "Monica Hall"
<[3]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
> To: "Monica Hall" <[4]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
> Cc: "Lutelist" <[5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 3:23 PM
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Foscarini Experience
>
>
>> Yes - the music is fun and I really enjoyed hearing the solo pieces
too - but liner notes are just nonsense. They have just made it all
up as a kind of concept to hang the recording on.
>>
>> Really it's irresponsible - because what they have said is now being
repeated as if it were true.
>>
>> What a world we live in.
>>
>> Monica
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - From: "Monica Hall"
<[6]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
>> To: "Eugene C. Braig IV" <[7]brai...@osu.edu>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 31
[LUTE] Pieces of Melchior Neusidler in the Web?
I have the page with the inventory up and on my web pages. http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepq31c/arthurjnesslutescores/mn_autographs.html Mus Mss 2987 and 266 can be downloaded from the Bavarian State Library's digital pages: http://bsb-mdz12-spiegel.bsb.lrz.de/~db/ausgaben/uni_ausgabe.html?projekt=1257941081&ordnung=sig&recherche=ja - Original Message - From: "Andreas Schroth" To: "wolfgang wiehe" ; "lute List" Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 6:09 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: [english 100%] Pieces of Melchior Neusidler in the Web? Vielen herzlichen Dank! Jetzt regnet es ja förmlich Melchior Neusidler! viele Grüße Am 28.03.2011 00:04, schrieb wolfgang wiehe: Arthur meint das münchner mus. Ms. 266, die stücke 1 bis 14. es sind wohl autographen! http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0003/bsb00031681/images/index.ht ml -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag von A. J. Ness Gesendet: Sonntag, 27. März 2011 23:54 An: Andreas Schroth; Karl L. Eggert; lute List Betreff: [LUTE] Re: [english 100%] Pieces of Melchior Neusidler in the Web? Ich bereite eine Liste der Stücke, die sich zu uns kommen, in handschriftlichen Quellen in Melchior Newsilders Handschrift. Einige, aber nicht alle, sind in digital-Format von der Bayerischen Staatsbibliothek. Italienische Tabulatur. Gib mir etwas Zeit. Ich habe Probleme mit Scannen der Typescript. Ja, der Gardano Druck von 1566 scheint nur zu sein in der Minkoff Faksimile erhältlich. Natürlich gibt es noch viel mehr Musik von MN. Ich zähle etwa 240 Stück alle zusammen. ajn - Original Message - From: "Andreas Schroth" To: "Karl L. Eggert"; "lute List" Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 4:22 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: [english 100%] Pieces of Melchior Neusidler in the Web? Vielen Dank für den Hinweis, hatte ich schon gefunden - aber ist halt leider deutsche Tabulatur, die ich als deutscher Lautenspieler halt nicht lesen kann. Ich werd mir wohl die Facsimiles seiner italienischen Lautenbücher I und II kaufen müssen, original in der British Library in London, wo es leider keine Digitalisierung gibt. Schönen Wahlabend noch! Andreas Am 27.03.2011 17:49, schrieb Karl L. Eggert: -- From: "Karl L. Eggert" Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 5:48 PM To: "Andreas Schroth" Subject: Re: [english 100%] [LUTE] Pieces of Melchior Neusidler in the Web? Hallo Andreas, see M. Newsiedler: Teutsch Lautenbuch (1574) http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0004/bsb00047078/images/ tut mir leid, dass ich deine Anfrage erst jetzt gesehen habe. Mit freundlichen Grüßen K .L. Eggert -- From: "Andreas Schroth" Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 4:27 PM To: "lute List" Subject: [english 100%] [LUTE] Pieces of Melchior Neusidler in the Web? Dear collected wisdom, are there some pieces by Melchior Neusidler in tabulatur (italian or french) in the net?( I know, there are some printed facsimiles) Thank You all! Yours Andreas Schroth, Berlin, Germany To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: European lute collections
I would suggest a visit to Nice, where my friend Rob Adelson (a professional period clarinet and basset horn plyer) is curator. He posted this recently: = Dear list members, I am the curator of the musical instrument collection of the city of Nice in the Musée du Palais Lascaris (soon to be transformed into the Musée de la Musique de Nice). Our collection, although little-known outside of France, is the second in size and importance in France (after that of the Musée de la Musique in Paris), containing over 500 instruments from the 16th to the 20th century. I am writing to you to ask for help in locating recordings of some more obscure instruments for use in our audioguide that will accompany our exhibitions. The display case in question will contain the following instruments: Archicistre PAQUET (Marseille, 1786) Cistre BORTOLOTTI (Milan, 1815) Mandore VIMERCATI (Milan, 1780) Mandore ANON (Milan, 1780) Cistre ANON (Italy, 1700) Cistre PRESTON (London 1776) Mandore PRESBLER (Milan 1676) The museum visitor will naturally be curious to hear an example of the sound of these instruments, as well as an hearing in what kind of music they were employed. Obviously we cannot find examples for ALL of these instruments, but I am hoping that you can suggest recordings that might shed light on at least one, if not more of them. Thank you very much for your expert advice on this rather difficult subject. Sincerely, Robert Adelson -- Robert ADELSON Musée de la musique de Nice Palais Lascaris 15, rue Droite 06300 Nice FRANCE tél: (+33) (0)4 93 62 72 44 fax: (+33) (0)4 93 62 72 45 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ou - Original Message - From: "Luca Manassero" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 10:11 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: European lute collections Paris, Cite de la Musique Nurnberg, Germanisches Museum Fuessen Wien Milano Bologna The lute Collection at the Victoria & Albert Museum has been packed away, as far as I know :-( so you could skip London. [1]theoj89...@aol.com on 29/03/11 15.46 wrote: If one were planning a trip to europe this summer (with a rail pass), and wanted to see up to four of the best museum collections of lutes, which museums should be on the list? thanks -trj -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html References 1. mailto:theoj89...@aol.com 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: [english 100%] Pieces of Melchior Neusidler in the Web?
Andreas, Italienisch Tabulatur in Melchior Handschrift auch in drei weiteren Handschriften erscheinen. Wir haben einen Brief, den er an Herzog Wilhelm II. sandte im Jahre 1577. Das kann verwendet werden, um die Handschrift zu vergleichen. Ich möchte die Titel der Stücke geben, aber mein Scanner nicht sehr gut funktionieren. Es gibt so viele "Tippfehler", dass es einfacher werden nur zu tippen, wieder würde. Meine List kommt morgens, wohl. - Original Message - From: "Andreas Schroth" To: "wolfgang wiehe" ; "lute List" Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 6:09 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: [english 100%] Pieces of Melchior Neusidler in the Web? Am 28.03.2011 00:04, schrieb wolfgang wiehe: Arthur meint das münchner mus. Ms. 266, die stücke 1 bis 14. es sind wohl autographen! http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0003/bsb00031681/images/index.ht ml -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag von A. J. Ness Gesendet: Sonntag, 27. März 2011 23:54 An: Andreas Schroth; Karl L. Eggert; lute List Betreff: [LUTE] Re: [english 100%] Pieces of Melchior Neusidler in the Web? Ich bereite eine Liste der Stücke, die sich zu uns kommen, in handschriftlichen Quellen in Melchior Newsilders Handschrift. Einige, aber nicht alle, sind in digital-Format von der Bayerischen Staatsbibliothek. Italienische Tabulatur. Gib mir etwas Zeit. Ich habe Probleme mit Scannen der Typescript. Ja, der Gardano Druck von 1566 scheint nur zu sein in der Minkoff Faksimile erhältlich. Natürlich gibt es noch viel mehr Musik von MN. Ich zähle etwa 240 Stück alle zusammen. ajn - Original Message - From: "Andreas Schroth" To: "Karl L. Eggert"; "lute List" Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 4:22 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: [english 100%] Pieces of Melchior Neusidler in the Web? Vielen Dank für den Hinweis, hatte ich schon gefunden - aber ist halt leider deutsche Tabulatur, die ich als deutscher Lautenspieler halt nicht lesen kann. Ich werd mir wohl die Facsimiles seiner italienischen Lautenbücher I und II kaufen müssen, original in der British Library in London, wo es leider keine Digitalisierung gibt. Schönen Wahlabend noch! Andreas Am 27.03.2011 17:49, schrieb Karl L. Eggert: -- From: "Karl L. Eggert" Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 5:48 PM To: "Andreas Schroth" Subject: Re: [english 100%] [LUTE] Pieces of Melchior Neusidler in the Web? Hallo Andreas, see M. Newsiedler: Teutsch Lautenbuch (1574) http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0004/bsb00047078/images/ tut mir leid, dass ich deine Anfrage erst jetzt gesehen habe. Mit freundlichen Grüßen K .L. Eggert -- From: "Andreas Schroth" Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 4:27 PM To: "lute List" Subject: [english 100%] [LUTE] Pieces of Melchior Neusidler in the Web? Dear collected wisdom, are there some pieces by Melchior Neusidler in tabulatur (italian or french) in the net?( I know, there are some printed facsimiles) Thank You all! Yours Andreas Schroth, Berlin, Germany To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: [english 100%] Pieces of Melchior Neusidler in the Web?
The two books publ. Gardano 1566 were also available in a facsimile edition edited by Charles Jacobs for Minkoff. Now out of print, I believe. But you might find a copy on the antiquarian market, such as abebooks or alibris. The complete contents of the Gardano books (in Italian tablature) were reprinted in a French tablature anthology by Phalèse & Bellère in 1571 as "Theatrum Musicum." Minkoff facsimile ed. Henri Vanhulst is out of print, but you might watch for it on the antiquarian market. It's a huge collection, and will be costly. See 1965 Brown (below) for a list of contents. The Bavarian State Library (Mbs) owns original copies of the 1566 and 1571 books, but has not yet offered them on their pages of digital scores. By the way, you have to watch spellings. The Mbs spells Hans Newsidler and Melchior Neusidler, and the Library of Congress, the opposite!! But library catalogues will give "see references." But Mbs digital doesn't. I have some fining tools that might be useful. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute/Sources.html For this project "1965 Brown" and "1991-9 Meyer" (see the link to Meyer's online indexes) would be basic resources. The Meyer index of names will give you an idea of how widely disseminated was MN's music. --ajn - Original Message - From: "Peter Martin" To: "Lute list" Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 3:49 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: [english 100%] Pieces of Melchior Neusidler in the Web? That lists will be a great resource - looking forward to seeing it! Meanwhile, the 1566 book is also listed in the Cornetto Music catalogue (Stuttgart) for 37 euros. [1]http://www.faksimiles.org/verlag.htm P 2011/3/27 A. J. Ness <[2]arthurjn...@verizon.net> Ich bereite eine Liste der Stuecke, die sich zu uns kommen, in handschriftlichen Quellen in Melchior Newsilders Handschrift. Einige, aber nicht alle, sind in digital-Format von der Bayerischen Staatsbibliothek. Italienische Tabulatur. Gib mir etwas Zeit. Ich habe Probleme mit Scannen der Typescript. Ja, der Gardano Druck von 1566 scheint nur zu sein in der Minkoff Faksimile erhaeltlich. Natuerlich gibt es noch viel mehr Musik von MN. Ich zaehle etwa 240 Stueck alle zusammen. ajn - Original Message - From: "Andreas Schroth" <[3]andreasschr...@gmx.net> To: "Karl L. Eggert" <[4]karl.l.egg...@t-online.de>; "lute List" <[5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 4:22 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: [english 100%] Pieces of Melchior Neusidler in the Web? Vielen Dank fuer den Hinweis, hatte ich schon gefunden - aber ist halt leider deutsche Tabulatur, die ich als deutscher Lautenspieler halt nicht lesen kann. Ich werd mir wohl die Facsimiles seiner italienischen Lautenbuecher I und II kaufen muessen, original in der British Library in London, wo es leider keine Digitalisierung gibt. Schoenen Wahlabend noch! Andreas Am 27.03.2011 17:49, schrieb Karl L. Eggert: -- From: "Karl L. Eggert" <[6]karl.l.egg...@t-online.de> Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 5:48 PM To: "Andreas Schroth" <[7]andreasschr...@gmx.net> Subject: Re: [english 100%] [LUTE] Pieces of Melchior Neusidler in the Web? Hallo Andreas, see M. Newsiedler: Teutsch Lautenbuch (1574) [8]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0004/bsb00047078/images/ tut mir leid, dass ich deine Anfrage erst jetzt gesehen habe. Mit freundlichen Gruessen K .L. Eggert -- From: "Andreas Schroth" <[9]andreasschr...@gmx.net> Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 4:27 PM To: "lute List" <[10]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Subject: [english 100%] [LUTE] Pieces of Melchior Neusidler in the Web? Dear collected wisdom, are there some pieces by Melchior Neusidler in tabulatur (italian or french) in the net?( I know, there are some printed facsimiles) Thank You all! Yours Andreas Schroth, Berlin, Germany To get on or off this list see list information at [11]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Peter Martin 24 The Mount St Georges Second Avenue Newcastle under Lyme ST5 8RB tel: 0044 (0)1782 662089 mob: 0044 (0)7971 232614 [12]peter.l...@gmail.com -- References 1. http://www.faksimiles.org/verlag.htm 2. mailto:arthurjn...@verizon.net 3. mailto:andreasschr...@gmx.net 4. mailto:karl.l.egg...@t-online.de 5. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 6. mailto:karl.l.egg...@t-online.de 7. mailto:andreasschr...@gmx.net 8. http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0004/bsb00047078/images/ 9. mailto:andreasschr...@gmx.net 10. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 11. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 12. mailto:peter.l...@gmail.com
[LUTE] Re: [english 100%] Pieces of Melchior Neusidler in the Web?
Ich bereite eine Liste der Stücke, die sich zu uns kommen, in handschriftlichen Quellen in Melchior Newsilders Handschrift. Einige, aber nicht alle, sind in digital-Format von der Bayerischen Staatsbibliothek. Italienische Tabulatur. Gib mir etwas Zeit. Ich habe Probleme mit Scannen der Typescript. Ja, der Gardano Druck von 1566 scheint nur zu sein in der Minkoff Faksimile erhältlich. Natürlich gibt es noch viel mehr Musik von MN. Ich zähle etwa 240 Stück alle zusammen. ajn - Original Message - From: "Andreas Schroth" To: "Karl L. Eggert" ; "lute List" Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 4:22 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: [english 100%] Pieces of Melchior Neusidler in the Web? Vielen Dank für den Hinweis, hatte ich schon gefunden - aber ist halt leider deutsche Tabulatur, die ich als deutscher Lautenspieler halt nicht lesen kann. Ich werd mir wohl die Facsimiles seiner italienischen Lautenbücher I und II kaufen müssen, original in der British Library in London, wo es leider keine Digitalisierung gibt. Schönen Wahlabend noch! Andreas Am 27.03.2011 17:49, schrieb Karl L. Eggert: -- From: "Karl L. Eggert" Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 5:48 PM To: "Andreas Schroth" Subject: Re: [english 100%] [LUTE] Pieces of Melchior Neusidler in the Web? Hallo Andreas, see M. Newsiedler: Teutsch Lautenbuch (1574) http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0004/bsb00047078/images/ tut mir leid, dass ich deine Anfrage erst jetzt gesehen habe. Mit freundlichen Grüßen K .L. Eggert -- From: "Andreas Schroth" Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 4:27 PM To: "lute List" Subject: [english 100%] [LUTE] Pieces of Melchior Neusidler in the Web? Dear collected wisdom, are there some pieces by Melchior Neusidler in tabulatur (italian or french) in the net?( I know, there are some printed facsimiles) Thank You all! Yours Andreas Schroth, Berlin, Germany To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Hej!! Hej!!
Happy Birthday, JSB. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Wandervögel Songs
Dear Mathias, I didn't mean it to be a substitute for any number of books with songs from that repertory. Indeed the Zupfgeigenhansl is available in many, many editions offered by antiquarian dealers, and range in size (and hence number of opieces) from 95 to 138 pages. Use the Karlsruhe Connection (last column) to locate copies: http://www.ubka.uni-karlsruhe.de/kvk_en.html The volumes I cited, Was die Wandervögel, have nearly 800 songs, and are available for "Laute (Gitarre)," also, but only with chord accompaniments. So, a lute accompaniment arranged from Krome's keyboard arrangement might be more interesting. The book mentioned by Wolfgang also has interesting pieces because they draw upon such old songs. Here again is Wolfgang's link to the online facsimile: http://www.mediafire.com/?dxceoidm4p4xfmi Perhaps we should be paying closer attention to the Wandervögel Lieder. Greetings from Boston, Arthur. - Original Message - From: To: "A. J. Ness" ; "Lute List" Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 6:26 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Re: Wandervögel Songs You'll have all the tunes and lyrics from this edition, at least. But these are adaptations for the keyboard, definitely no more feasible on the lute. Quite a few copies of Der Zupfgeigenhandel are still floating around ( http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Zupfgeigenhansl ), why not take one of those. Mathias > Some of you may be interested in this collection in several volumes > with hundreds of songs (alas arranged for piano, but originally for > lute-guitar): > > [1]http://hdl.handle.net/1802/14257 > > Publication Name: Was die Wandervögel singen ... für > Klavier bearbeitet und herausgegeben von Hermann Krome. Illustriert > von Paul Telemann. Band I-IV. > Arranger:Krome, Hermann (1888 - 1955) > > Is anyone out there interested in this repertory? Roman? > References > > 1. http://hdl.handle.net/1802/14257 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: lute poems
"An die Laute" Poem by Johann Friedrich Rochlitz (editor of the Allgemeine musikalische Zeitung) set by Schubert http://www3.cpdl.org/wiki/index.php/An_die_Laute_%28Franz_Schubert%29 Surely something in all those huindreds of songs for the Wandervögel http://hdl.handle.net/1802/14257 - Original Message - From: "Thomas Schall" To: Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 6:03 PM Subject: [LUTE] lute poems Hi all, I've redisigned my homepage (http://www.lautenist.de) and would like to ask if some of you know poems related to the lute which are not listed on my page. Thanks for your help and all the best -- Thomas Schall Doerflistrasse 2 CH-6078 Lungern +41 41 678 00 79 lauten...@lautenist.de -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Fw: Wandervögel Songs
Subject: Wandervoegel Songs Some of you may be interested in this collection in several volumes with hundreds of songs (alas arranged for piano, but originally for lute-guitar): [1]http://hdl.handle.net/1802/14257 Publication Name: Was die Wandervögel singen ... für Klavier bearbeitet und herausgegeben von Hermann Krome. Illustriert von Paul Telemann. Band I-IV. Arranger:Krome, Hermann (1888 - 1955) Is anyone out there interested in this repertory? Roman? -- References 1. http://hdl.handle.net/1802/14257 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Beating time for Lully
I was referring to that tale told in U.S. music appreciation classes
about Lully's death. But perhaps it is true. I decided to check with
Nicolas Slonimsky (Baker's Biographical Dictionary):
[Lully's] death resulted from a symbolic accident: while conducting, he
vehemently struck his foot with a sharp-pointed cane used to pound
out the beat; gangrene set in and he died of blood poisoning.
What is a "symbolic accident"?
Is that when you lose control of your auto and smash into the Eiffel
Tower?
Arthur.
- Original Message -
From: "Jean-Marie Poirier" <[1]jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr>
To: <[2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 5:32 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Beating time for Lully
> Arthur,
> Don't be worried about that ! Franc,ois Xavier Roth, the conductor,
(no connection with Philip ;-) is in very good health altogether !
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Jean-Marie
> =
>
> == En reponse au message du 16-03-2011, 10:12:13 ==
>
>>Arto,
>>
>>Yes, a wonderful performance. I was however worried that the
conductor
>>might hit his gout-infested toe with that big cane. I wonder if
there's any
>>truth in that old tale.
>>- Original Message -
>>From: <[3]wi...@cs.helsinki.fi>
>>To: <[4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>>Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 3:39 AM
>>Subject: [LUTE] Re: Beating time for Lully
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks Daniel,
>>>
>>> great music and great performance! And it is nice to hear the
"Marche"
>>> played in majestic, not hectic, tempo! Lully rules! :-)
>>>
>>> Btw, who are the theorbists?
>>>
>>> Arto
>>>
>>>
>>> On 16/03/11 07:22, Daniel F Heiman wrote:
Literally:
[5]http://www.citedelamusiquelive.tv/Concert/0940463.html
Regards,
Daniel
To get on or off this list see list information at
[6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
References
1. mailto:jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr
2. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
3. mailto:wi...@cs.helsinki.fi
4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
5. http://www.citedelamusiquelive.tv/Concert/0940463.html
6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Beating time for Lully
Arto, Yes, a wonderful performance. I was however worried that the conductor might hit his gout-infested toe with that big cane. I wonder if there's any truth in that old tale. - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 3:39 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Beating time for Lully Thanks Daniel, great music and great performance! And it is nice to hear the "Marche" played in majestic, not hectic, tempo! Lully rules! :-) Btw, who are the theorbists? Arto On 16/03/11 07:22, Daniel F Heiman wrote: Literally: http://www.citedelamusiquelive.tv/Concert/0940463.html Regards, Daniel To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: searching for a daMilano piece
For an excellently ornamented version from the Marsh Manuscript (pp. 228-9), see Appendix No. 3. Fantasia No. 30 is in the newly discovered Dorico print from 1566 [recte: 1546] edited by Perino Fiorentino, Francesco's student and ward. We mentioned the Dorico print in regard to the correct opening rhythm for No. 33. There are some riches in the Appendix, and are deserving of your attention. - Original Message - From: "Ed Durbrow" To: "Jean-Marie Poirier" ; Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 3:39 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: searching for a daMilano piece Yes, that's it! Thank you Jean-Marie. On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Jean-Marie Poirier <[1]jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr> wrote: Hi Ed, Wold that be the piece in question ? (see pdf attachment) Best, Jean-Marie = == En reponse au message du 13-03-2011, 19:54:18 == >Can anyone point me to a digital version of a Francesco Ricercare that starts like this:f i h fe f r a d c ab a e d d c d a >I went through all the daMilano PDFs at Sarge Gerbode's lute page, but I couldn't find it.TIA -- References 1. mailto:jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Purcell: Cupid, the slyest rogue alive
Four times C, or in your case twice the C-slash that precedes it. I could only hear the recording in annoyingly short snippets. But the singer's tempo may be too fast. - Original Message - From: "Peter Nightingale" To: "Lute List" Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 11:20 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Purcell: Cupid, the slyest rogue alive Actually, here is the the backward-C-slash on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKJKunHS0sI at the 1:24 mark, for the impatient. "Proportio quadrupla" is a nice start, thanks, but four times what, I wonder. Peter. On Sun, 13 Mar 2011, A. J. Ness wrote: Yes, that's what it would be called. Many thanks, Bernd. (Sorry I broke my promise. not to post anything more today.) And I'd expect it in Schutz, if anywhere. - Original Message - From: "Bernd Haegemann" To: "Peter Nightingale" ; "Lute List" ; "A. J. Ness" Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 4:52 PM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Purcell: Cupid, the slyest rogue alive >C slash in mirror? What do you mean? I think you're clear. You mean >the opening to the letter C is normally on the right, and "in mirror" the opening is on the left? I've never seen it with a slash. Somehow I believe to have seen it in Sch?tz as proportio quadrupla... B. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html the next auto-quote is: I believe in compulsory cannibalism. If people were forced to eat what they killed there would be no more war. (Abbie Hoffman) /\/\ Peter Nightingale Telephone (401) 874-5882 Department of Physics, East Hall Fax (401) 874-2380 University of Rhode Island Kingston, RI 02881
[LUTE] Re: MORE Re: Crotchet rests
The composer I suggested is Gotthelf Heinrich Kummer, not Kaspar Kummer. - Original Message - From: "Stewart McCoy" To: "Lute Net" Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 5:09 PM Subject: [LUTE] MORE Re: Crotchet rests Thanks very much for your help, Arthur. Following your lead I have located the music by Kummer at the ISMLP site. I'll pass on the web address to the chap who asked about the music. Hopefully it will match what he has. If not, I hope to get a scan of what he has. All the best, Stewart. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of A. J. Ness Sent: 13 March 2011 20:03 To: A. J. Ness; Stewart McCoy; Lute Net Subject: [LUTE] MORE Re: Crotchet rests I downloaded the ISMLP copy, Stewart. I have trouble sending *.PDF files, so if you can download it yourself, that would be best. If I send it, I'd have to split it into several files. But will do so if you wish. - Original Message - From: "A. J. Ness" To: "Stewart McCoy" ; "Lute Net" Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 3:51 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Crotchet rests For some reason I have never been able to remember English terminology for musical notes. But that's my problem, not yours, Stewart. You asked about an undated, anonymous Premier Divertissement--sic (Divertissement is masculine, but maybe the publisher misspelled it), most likely the work by Kummer***: In the 18th century a crotchet [quarter-note, hereafter Q] rest looked like a mirror image [hereafter mE=Q] of a quaver [eighth-note, hereafter E] rest. We don't write them like that way any more. When is it the modern crotchet rest replaced the old one? I don't think the shape of Q and E rests could be used as a reliable indicator of the date of a given piece of music. The mE=Q rest originates in the earliest mensural notation. Yet, in the Clavier Übung (1739) engraved by JSB himself the modern Q rest is clearly used. Also in the 18th (and earlier?) century the Q rest was sometimes shaped like a lowercase Z. When I played professionally, often from ancient orchestral parts at outdoor ballet and opera concerts in San Francisco's Stern Grove, I encountered printed parts, invariably from France as late as the 1940s which used the mE=Q rest (e.g., Les Sylphides [1940] and Carmen) . You would expect that while in such long use someone would have taken a pencil and marked the mE=Q rests as Q rests. But the parts I read from were always clean. It's surprisingly very easy to sight read music that uses E and mE=Q rests. Literally sight read. Those afternoon concerts had 2 hours of music prepared in a single one-hour morning rehearsal. ***It's probably Kaspar Kummer, [Trois] Divertissement[s], Op. 92, first publ. in Offenbach aM, by André ca. 1872; plate no. 6268. There's a copy in the ISMLP. The first divertissement is in C major, Allegretto scherzando. But you probably have another edition. AJN == This is the message I received: Hope I'm not being a nuisance but thought you might have a quick answer on a rather abstruse point about the dating of crotchet rests. Someone here has just given me the printed parts for a 'Premiere Divertissement pour flute, violon et guitarre'. There's no title page and no composer's name. The donor is the wife of a flute playing retired GP who has had to give up his music because of failing mental capacity. He remembers the German colleague who gave him the music but he has no further recollection of the music or idea who its composer might be. The music is, I think, early 19th century but I have failed to identify it. (If I sent you a photocopy do you think you (or Philip) could look at it to see if you had any ideas ?). The music is not, I further suspect, of any great significance but it is pleasant enough. The parts are engraved and printed on laid (i.e.hand-made) rag paper - which is something of a pointer to an early(ish) date. I have, though, not been able to spot any identifying water marks. The crotchet rests are like reversed quaver rests (i.e. not the kind that have two curved lines one above the other). How far would this be a clue to the date ? When did the more modern type of crotchet rest come into normal use ? Please don't waste time on this but I wondered whether you knew when the change in the normal form of the rest happened and could give a quick answer. Can anyone offer any thoughts? Stewart McCoy. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Purcell: Cupid, the slyest rogue alive
Yes, that's what it would be called. Many thanks, Bernd. (Sorry I broke my promise. not to post anything more today.) And I'd expect it in Schutz, if anywhere. - Original Message - From: "Bernd Haegemann" To: "Peter Nightingale" ; "Lute List" ; "A. J. Ness" Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 4:52 PM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Purcell: Cupid, the slyest rogue alive >C slash in mirror? What do you mean? I think you're clear. You mean >the opening to the letter C is normally on the right, and "in mirror" the opening is on the left? I've never seen it with a slash. Somehow I believe to have seen it in Schütz as proportio quadrupla... B. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: "Like as the Lute" question
Hello, Benny! (p.s. this is my last message for today. sorry to dominate the proceedings.) Many years ago Gordon was a regular and valued contributor to this newslist. You have a partial contact in the link you provided. Gordon is now retired, if I'm not mistaken, as professor at Acadia University in Halifax, Nova Scotia. He is an authority on 17th-century English ayres, and has published many scholarly editions of that repertory in the A-R Editions's Recent Researches series. He is also moderator of the SCORE music engravers newslist, and maintains the SCORE web site at his university. So I believe you can find a email contact and perhaps invite him to respond to your question here on our list. I reached his SCORE web site by Googling as follows: "acadia university" callon score. But Benny, it's so obvious. Don't you get it? John Danyel's a musical punster. "Her touch" (?) What happens to you when your signficant other touches you? Say in a dark movie theater when you were a shy junior high school kid on your first serious date? You catch your breath. You gasp. Hence the rests. What I don't understand is why there are two rests, when one would do. But that is because of the scansion. The next note to be sung is an upbeat. - Original Message - From: To: "lute mailing list list" Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2011 10:10 PM Subject: [LUTE] "Like as the Lute" question Hi, everyone! I've got a question about John Danyel's "Like as the Lute Delights". This is a version of it that I found online. http://www.acadiau.ca/~gcallon/www/archive/like.pdf On page three, second bar there is pause after the words "her touch", and you can see that the tab denotes the rests, rather than having the word "touch" held for three beats. Does anyone familiar with this song know if this notation is original? Is Gordon J. Callon on this list-serve, or does anyone know him? Or is there an original source for the tab that can be accessed online? Thanks! Ben S To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Purcell: Cupid, the slyest rogue alive
C slash in mirror? What do you mean? I think you're clear. You mean the
opening to the letter C is normally on the right, and "in mirror" the
opening is on the left? I've never seen it with a slash.
But No-slash Mirror C does occur on rare occasions. It is the same as C
slash.
Let's see.
Whole note (W) in C would be the same rhythmic value as a Half note (H) of
C in C slash (or No-slash Mirror C). Oops! Let's get this right. A Half
note (H) in C would be the same length as a Whole note (W) in C slash (or
No-slash Mirror C)
In mirror C slash a W of C would be the same rhythmic value as a Quarter
note (Q) in C.
Need an advanced degree in mathematics to compute musical proportions.
I'm not certain that's correct, but logically that's what Mirror slash-C
would be.
You have C-slash-3 correct. There are two examples in the ricercars of
Marco dall'Aquila. I've seen it in Newsidler (Neusidler, Nenslyder), too.
http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepq31c/marcodallaquila
For specific pieces (tablature and transcriptions) click on the appropriate
"Libro" at the top of the Home Page.
See the transcriptions in my online edition, No. 46 in Libro Terzo (about
half way down the page). H = dotted H.
For a similar example see No.
22 "alla frottola" in Libro Secondo would be Slashed-circle-3. Compare the
tabkature and the transcription. Barlines (according to Barberiis [1548],
"picego" in Venetian
dialect--"slash" as with a sword) in tablature are often not metrical, but
rather mark off the tactus ("beat"). Many transcriptions that use the same
barlines as the tablature should have a meter sign of 1/1 (e.g., Chiesa).
Marco's music has some of the most amazing rhythmic
tricks that I've ever seen in early music, such as the metrical accelerando
at the end on No. 61 (Libro
quarto), Ricercar ("con misure di restringemento"/shrinking measures--see
the triangle-shaped précis at the bottom of the last page).
Now you have me wondering how that would have been notated in mensural
notation of the 16th century. And much of Marco's music strikes me as
having been conceived in mensural notation, and then intabulated.
AJN
- Original Message -
From: "Peter Nightingale"
To: "lute list"
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 11:10 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Purcell: Cupid, the slyest rogue alive
Dear List,
Does anyone know what the various time signatures mean that appear in
Purcell's "Cupid, the slyest rogue alive"?
My edition starts in 2/2 (C-slash), then goes to "C-slash-3" which I
interpret as 3/4 measures with the same duration as half the preceding
2/2 measures. Then it goes back to 2/2 and alternates between 2/2 and
something denoted by a C-slash in mirror image (mirrored about the
vertical). I guess it's a faster 2/2. If so, how much faster?
Thanks,
Peter.
the next auto-quote is:
The wise man belongs to all countries, for the
home of a great soul is the whole world.
(Democritus)
/\/\
Peter Nightingale Telephone (401) 874-5882
Department of Physics, East Hall Fax (401) 874-2380
University of Rhode Island Kingston, RI 02881
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] MORE Re: Crotchet rests
I downloaded the ISMLP copy, Stewart. I have trouble sending *.PDF files, so if you can download it yourself, that would be best. If I send it, I'd have to split it into several files. But will do so if you wish. - Original Message - From: "A. J. Ness" To: "Stewart McCoy" ; "Lute Net" Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 3:51 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Crotchet rests For some reason I have never been able to remember English terminology for musical notes. But that's my problem, not yours, Stewart. You asked about an undated, anonymous Premier Divertissement--sic (Divertissement is masculine, but maybe the publisher misspelled it), most likely the work by Kummer***: In the 18th century a crotchet [quarter-note, hereafter Q] rest looked like a mirror image [hereafter mE=Q] of a quaver [eighth-note, hereafter E] rest. We don't write them like that way any more. When is it the modern crotchet rest replaced the old one? I don't think the shape of Q and E rests could be used as a reliable indicator of the date of a given piece of music. The mE=Q rest originates in the earliest mensural notation. Yet, in the Clavier Übung (1739) engraved by JSB himself the modern Q rest is clearly used. Also in the 18th (and earlier?) century the Q rest was sometimes shaped like a lowercase Z. When I played professionally, often from ancient orchestral parts at outdoor ballet and opera concerts in San Francisco's Stern Grove, I encountered printed parts, invariably from France as late as the 1940s which used the mE=Q rest (e.g., Les Sylphides [1940] and Carmen) . You would expect that while in such long use someone would have taken a pencil and marked the mE=Q rests as Q rests. But the parts I read from were always clean. It's surprisingly very easy to sight read music that uses E and mE=Q rests. Literally sight read. Those afternoon concerts had 2 hours of music prepared in a single one-hour morning rehearsal. ***It's probably Kaspar Kummer, [Trois] Divertissement[s], Op. 92, first publ. in Offenbach aM, by André ca. 1872; plate no. 6268. There's a copy in the ISMLP. The first divertissement is in C major, Allegretto scherzando. But you probably have another edition. AJN == This is the message I received: Hope I'm not being a nuisance but thought you might have a quick answer on a rather abstruse point about the dating of crotchet rests. Someone here has just given me the printed parts for a 'Premiere Divertissement pour flute, violon et guitarre'. There's no title page and no composer's name. The donor is the wife of a flute playing retired GP who has had to give up his music because of failing mental capacity. He remembers the German colleague who gave him the music but he has no further recollection of the music or idea who its composer might be. The music is, I think, early 19th century but I have failed to identify it. (If I sent you a photocopy do you think you (or Philip) could look at it to see if you had any ideas ?). The music is not, I further suspect, of any great significance but it is pleasant enough. The parts are engraved and printed on laid (i.e.hand-made) rag paper - which is something of a pointer to an early(ish) date. I have, though, not been able to spot any identifying water marks. The crotchet rests are like reversed quaver rests (i.e. not the kind that have two curved lines one above the other). How far would this be a clue to the date ? When did the more modern type of crotchet rest come into normal use ? Please don't waste time on this but I wondered whether you knew when the change in the normal form of the rest happened and could give a quick answer. Can anyone offer any thoughts? Stewart McCoy. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Crotchet rests
For some reason I have never been able to remember English terminology for musical notes. But that's my problem, not yours, Stewart. You asked about an undated, anonymous Premier Divertissement--sic (Divertissement is masculine, but maybe the publisher misspelled it), most likely the work by Kummer***: In the 18th century a crotchet [quarter-note, hereafter Q] rest looked like a mirror image [hereafter mE=Q] of a quaver [eighth-note, hereafter E] rest. We don't write them like that way any more. When is it the modern crotchet rest replaced the old one? I don't think the shape of Q and E rests could be used as a reliable indicator of the date of a given piece of music. The mE=Q rest originates in the earliest mensural notation. Yet, in the Clavier Übung (1739) engraved by JSB himself the modern Q rest is clearly used. Also in the 18th (and earlier?) century the Q rest was sometimes shaped like a lowercase Z. When I played professionally, often from ancient orchestral parts at outdoor ballet and opera concerts in San Francisco's Stern Grove, I encountered printed parts, invariably from France as late as the 1940s which used the mE=Q rest (e.g., Les Sylphides [1940] and Carmen) . You would expect that while in such long use someone would have taken a pencil and marked the mE=Q rests as Q rests. But the parts I read from were always clean. It's surprisingly very easy to sight read music that uses E and mE=Q rests. Literally sight read. Those afternoon concerts had 2 hours of music prepared in a single one-hour morning rehearsal. ***It's probably Kaspar Kummer, [Trois] Divertissement[s], Op. 92, first publ. in Offenbach aM, by André ca. 1872; plate no. 6268. There's a copy in the ISMLP. The first divertissement is in C major, Allegretto scherzando. But you probably have another edition. AJN == This is the message I received: Hope I'm not being a nuisance but thought you might have a quick answer on a rather abstruse point about the dating of crotchet rests. Someone here has just given me the printed parts for a 'Premiere Divertissement pour flute, violon et guitarre'. There's no title page and no composer's name. The donor is the wife of a flute playing retired GP who has had to give up his music because of failing mental capacity. He remembers the German colleague who gave him the music but he has no further recollection of the music or idea who its composer might be. The music is, I think, early 19th century but I have failed to identify it. (If I sent you a photocopy do you think you (or Philip) could look at it to see if you had any ideas ?). The music is not, I further suspect, of any great significance but it is pleasant enough. The parts are engraved and printed on laid (i.e.hand-made) rag paper - which is something of a pointer to an early(ish) date. I have, though, not been able to spot any identifying water marks. The crotchet rests are like reversed quaver rests (i.e. not the kind that have two curved lines one above the other). How far would this be a clue to the date ? When did the more modern type of crotchet rest come into normal use ? Please don't waste time on this but I wondered whether you knew when the change in the normal form of the rest happened and could give a quick answer. Can anyone offer any thoughts? Stewart McCoy. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Tsunami
I had a note from Hiro Minamino, who is in the unpleasant position to witness the tsunami as it washes up on the beaches of Mission Viejo, California, where he lives. He writes that there was difficulty getting through, but he has heard through skype (what's that?) that all of his and his wife's family live in the south of Japan and are safe. - Original Message - From: "David van Ooijen" To: Cc: "T.Kakinami" Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 2:51 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Tsunami Kakinami-san wa daijoubu desu ka? David On 11 March 2011 17:58, Daniel Winheld wrote: News about our Japanese friends & connections? Some of our members have deep connections and home bases there. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl ***
[LUTE] Re: German tablature
There is an autograph letter from Melchior Newsidler to Wilhelm II, Duke of Bavria. It's reproduced in my article in the Festschrift for John Ward (Music and Context, ed. Anne Dhu Shapiro). I read the signature as "Melchior Newsidler." The letter is in German. In his Italian prints which he personally supervised (he was in Venice with Philippe Camerarius, the friend of Lutheran), the spelling on titlepage and within is "Neysidler." He and Camerarius, who had just been released by the Inquisition, hauled the books back to Germany over the Alps during a blizzard. They left in December or so. You need to be careful, Martin, because Melchior can jump off the page and bite you. You've published some pieces from Paris, Ms. Rés 429, in your pieces of the week. The first part of that fascicle manuscript is in the hand of MN. You seem most interested in the pieces in the second half, so maybe that's why you escaped. Watch out when you look at Mus Ms 266 in Munich: the first fascicle is also in MN's hand. The two parts of Rés 429 are many years apart. The first MN part perhaps 1570, and the second ca. 1546 with much copied directly from the Naples FdaM print (someone didn't like Neapolitan tablature). That's how the Naples pieces got into the HUP edition, although the Sulzbachius print hadn't been discovered then. A former owner's signature is on the cover. Perhaps the person who had two such disparate manuscripts bound together. The signature reads "Orazio de Michi," doubtlessly the famous harpist. Hmm? Playing from Italian lute tablature? Why not? It's easy to do. And there's so little harp music back then. There's a 17th-century galliard in French tablature in Rés 429 which I think Michi added to he manuscript. - Original Message - From: "Martin Shepherd" To: "Lute List" Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 2:00 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: German tablature I think Hans Newsidler and Melchior Neusidler on their title pages - modern German maybe Neusiedler, anyone? Martin On 08/03/2011 18:09, Rob MacKillop wrote: Thanks, all. Newslider it is. Or Neuslider. Or...how many spellings, and which is used more in Germany? Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Ms. Lei. II 6 14 ?
- Original Message - From: "Christopher Wilke" <[1]chriswi...@yahoo.com> To: "wikla" <[2]wi...@cs.helsinki.fi>; "A. J. Ness" <[3]arthurjn...@verizon.net> Cc: "Charles Browne" <[4]char...@brownecowie.fsnet.co.uk>; "Baroque Lute List" <[5]baroque-l...@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 5:14 PM Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Ms. Lei. II 6 14 ? Arthur, --- On Fri, 3/4/11, A. J. Ness <[6]arthurjn...@verizon.net> wrote: > By the way, did you notice that the Lachrimae motive is sounded in tghe > lower line at the > beginnig of Gallot's "L'Amat malheureux" (No. 98)? Weiss also made an > arrangement of that piece. It just so happens that in a few hours I'll be giving my doctoral lecture recital at Eastman. The topic is Weiss's use of timbre and I discuss these versions in my presentation. <> Good luck! How I wish I could be there to hear you talk and play. I once planned a talk on "L'Amat malheureux," but someone else on the program chose the same topic, so I had to move on. to something else. It wanted to relate it to the lament. Anyway best of luck with your lecture this evening. In Kilbourne Hall? (You know I studied at Eastman.) Opps! I meant to send this yesterday afternoon. I am certain your presentation was a wonderful success. I hope you will write it up for the Lute Society of America Quarterly, or its Journal. I think this amply demonstrates why Arto is calling for more uniformity in naming as well as connecting names with catalog numbers. There is the version of L'Amant Malheureux in London with the number LbmI, which is easy enough to find. <> Don't let me get started it's too close to dinner. But the careless naming lute manuscripts is one of my pet peeves. And I join Arto in his complaints. Too often the names are not chosen correctly, and the incorrect name results in misunderstandings about the nature of the works contained within the manuscript. You'll have to let me leave a list of examples for later. I was discussing the topic with Steve Immel (proprietor of Old Music and Incunabula) at the recent annual meeting of the Music Library Association in Philadelphia. And I purchased a facsimile of "other half" of a misnamed lute manuscript, the Nauclerus Lute Book. Not to be mistaken for the Bakfark-Nauclerus Manucript which is misnamed. <>The Bakfark-Nauclerus manuscript has pieces attributed to "VB" (concordances show it is Valentin Bakfark) and MN, which the person naming the manuscript thought to be M. Nauclerus, because one pieces seems to read "M. Naucl." But it read "Neud," an abbreviation for Neusidler, whose authorship of the pieces attr. to "MN" can be confirmed through concordances as Melchior News idler (son, not brother of Hans N.). But then there is the version in g minor in PnVmc61. This is the so-called "Paris" manuscript. Not just the Paris manuscript, the "Paris Thibault" manuscript. Not just the Paris Thibault manuscript, ONE of the Paris Thibault manuscripts. I can't recall which volume number off the top of my head even though I've recently researched it. This number is of course not connected with its current catalog number. <> I have a guide to the Thibault manucripts on my web site. [7]http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepq31c/thibault.html There are also the two versions (allemande en double and gigue) in ROI. The Deutsche Lautengelsellschaft recently published this as the "Rohrau" manuscript, but in English we're apparently calling it "Harrach I and II." Tim Crawford has an excellent discussion of this source in a recent LSA Journal. This is not to be confused (but undoubtedly will be by some) with the already known "Harrach" manuscript in New York. <>The Pachelbel works in Nuremberg are also from Harrach, I believe, as well as sinfonias /concertinos in pitch notatoin that Bob Spencer owned. One is on my web site: [8]http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepq31c/arthurjnesslutescores/sinfonia.ht ml Regards, Arthur. Chris Christopher Wilke Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer [9]www.christopherwilke.com -- References 1. mailto:chriswi...@yahoo.com 2. mailto:wi...@cs.helsinki.fi 3. mailto:arthurjn...@verizon.net 4. mailto:char...@brownecowie.fsnet.co.uk 5. mailto:baroque-l...@cs.dartmouth.edu 6. mailto:arthurjn...@verizon.net 7. http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepq31c/thibault.html 8. http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepq31c/arthurjnesslutescores/sinfonia.html 9. http://www.christopherwilke.com/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Annual list of lute summer schools - can you add anything?
Chris asks if you know of any appropriate summer schools not listed here, you let him know at [1]lute...@aol.com and he will include the school when he posts a final list on the web page of the Lute Society (U.K.). Those lute schools are a wonderfujl experience, and you'll make friendships that will last a lifetime. - Original Message - From: [2]lute...@aol.com To: [3]lute...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 5:53 AM Subject: Annual list of lute summer schools - can you add anything? Dear lute friends Here is my annual list of summer schools which have either a lute tutor or where lutes are welcome, which I am about to put in Lute News magazine, and on the lute society website. At the bottom I have put summer schools which happened last year, but do not seem to have published details for this year. Can you add anything to the list - have I missed any lute weeks or weekends? Teachers!! please check I have got all the details of your course correct. best wishes Chris Goodwin 2011 Mar 25-27 Al manere minstrelsy, with the Dufay Collective, at Jackdaws Music Education Trust, Great Elm, Frome BA11 3NY, tel: 01373 812383 www.jackdaws.org.uk Apr 1-3Songs to the lute and guitar, at West Dean, with Michael Fields, at West Dean College, West Dean, Chichester PO18 0QZ tel 0844 4994408 or from overseas ++44 1243 811301 / fax: 811343 e: short.cour...@westdean.org.ukweb: www.westdean.org.uk Apr 12-19Easter Early Music Course at St George's School Ascot, contact Geri Coop, tel: 07971 388 509 www.easterearlymusiccourse.org.uk Apr 15-17 Lutefest at Benslow, with Jakob Lindberg, Jacob Heringman, Stewart McCoy, Jeni Melia, Sarah Groser, Benslow Music Trust, Little Benslow Hills off Benslow Lane, Hitchin, Herts SG4 9RB. Tel: 01462 459446 (fax: 440171). Email: i...@benslow.org Apr 25-May 1 Musica antica a Monterone/Sestone, Arezzo, with Sigrun Richter. Details: www.sigrunrechter.de, e: li...@sigrunrichter.de tel: ++39 0575 772219 Apr 26 - May 1Benslow Baroque Oratorio, Handel's Theodora, at Benslow Music Trust, contact, as above. Apr 26-29 Renaissance Music at Easter, Wedgwood Memorial College, Stoke on Trent, Contact: 01782 372105 e: wedgewood.memor...@stoke.gov.uk web: www.stoke.gov.uk/wedgewoodmemorialcollege May 11-15 Kloster Schlehdorf, Kurs Alte Musik, with Axel Wolf, Marion Teupel-Franck, tel: ++49 89/ 6012755 e: schlehd...@flautotraverso.de www.flautotraverso.de May 27-29 Music from the Cradle of the Renaissance, with Sarah Stowe, Benslow Music Trust, Little Benslow Hills off Benslow Lane, Hitchin, Herts SG4 9RB. Tel: 01462 459446 (fax: 440171). Email: i...@benslow.org www.benslow.org Jun 2-15 Tafelmusik Baroque Summer Music Institute, with Lucas Harris, lute continuo class, University of Toronto, Canada, tel. ++1 416 964 9562, ext: 241 e: t...@tafelmusik.org web: www.tafelmusik.org Jun 29-July 3 Oberlin baroque performance institute, Back to Bach. Contact: Baroque Performance Institute, Conservatory of Music, 39 West College Street, Oberlin, Ohio 44074 1576, USA, tel: Anna Hoffmann ++1 440 775 8413 /fax: 8942 e: anna.hoffm...@oberlin.edu web: www.oberlin.edu/conservatory/summer/baroque-performance-institute/ Jun 19-25 Mediaeval and Renaissance Workshop Music from the Edges of Music with Tim Rayborn, Sonoma State University, CA, contact: San Francisco Early Music Society, PO Box 27495, Berkeley, CA 94127 0495, USA, tel: ++1 510 528 9808 email: sf...@sfems.org web: www.sfems.org Jun 26-July 2Baroque Music Workshop The Italian Connection incl. baroque orchestra, Sonoma State University, CA, contact: San Francisco Early Music Society, details above. July 2-9International Summer School of Early Music, Valtice, Czech Republic. with Brian Wright, Miloslav Student, Contact: The Czech Music Society, Radlicka 99, CZ 15000 Praha 5, Czech Republic. Tel/ fax: ++420 2 35 351942 /fax: 2 515 52453 e: valtice.veron...@centrum.cz www.early-music.cz July 9-16 Madison Early Music Festival El nueveo mundo: The Age of Exploration in the New World, with Grant Herreid and Scott Pauley, University of Wisconsin, contact: e: cbow...@dsc.wisc.edu, web: www.dsc.wisc.edu/lsa/memf/festival.htm tel: ++1 608 265 5629 July 11-14 Lute course in Bad Alexandersbad
[LUTE] Re: Ed's birthday today
Opps. Forgot: Congratulations, ed, and many happytreturns. - Original Message - From: "A. J. Ness" To: "Edward Martin" ; Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 4:10 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Ed's birthday today I wouldn't qualify him as an old geezer. He really isn't old enough to join the club. Middle aged geezer, perhaps. - Original Message - From: "Edward Martin" To: Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 3:18 PM Subject: [LUTE] Ed's birthday today Send Ed a greeting, as the old geezer turned 62 today. He is now elegible for Social Security, which he refuses, because I will not let him quit working yet. He just bought a new lute. and you know what that means. Colleen, Ed's wife. Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Ed's birthday today
I wouldn't qualify him as an old geezer. He really isn't old enough to join the club. Middle aged geezer, perhaps. - Original Message - From: "Edward Martin" To: Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 3:18 PM Subject: [LUTE] Ed's birthday today Send Ed a greeting, as the old geezer turned 62 today. He is now elegible for Social Security, which he refuses, because I will not let him quit working yet. He just bought a new lute. and you know what that means. Colleen, Ed's wife. Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Hand moisturizer.
This product has been mentioned here before. Bag Balm is probably similar to Udderly Smooth (mentioned by Guy), and other products that were originally intended for cows, but also found to be efficacious for humans (including lutenists). And you can be assured it's authentic, coming, as it does, from Vermont. A video: http://www.vermontcountrystore.com/products/beauty/Skin-Body-Care/Moisturize-and-Protect/Bag-Balm.html?evar3=search#Product_Video Actually, iirc, the product was originally concocted by the Amish. If your hands are really dry, you can buy it in 4 1/2 lb pails here: http://www.bagbalm.com/ - Original Message - From: "Guy Smith" To: "'Herbert Ward'" ; Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 12:29 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Hand moisturizer. I like Udderly Smooth, which doesn't leave a residue. It's popular among knitters, which is how I found out about it (my wife is a dedicated knitter/spinner). Guy -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Herbert Ward Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 9:14 AM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Hand moisturizer. What is a good hand moisturizer for lute playing? Lubriderm moisturizes well. But it leaves my fingers catchy, even to the point of squeaking slightly on the strings. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Future facsimiles from the Lute Society
Hello, David, Yes, I use the same system. The Boston Public Library and the university library down the street have machines that make digital copies from microfilm. When I check about 5 years ago, such machines costs about $7000, much too expensive for home use. I wonder when there will be a machine at a price that will make them attractive to private persons. Enjoyed your account of Gorzanis in the current Nostalgia of the Japanese Lute and Early Guitar Society. Mus Ms 1511a (the so-called well-tempered lute book) was probably copied in Munich, since the paper is from a local mill. The dedicatee Ulrich Herwarth is a cousin to the Hans Heinrich Herwarth whose vast musical library serves as a foundation for the music collection at the Bavarian State Library. When the Gorzanis books of Napolitane are published, would you let us all know about how we may order copies. Arthur. - Original Message - From: "David van Ooijen" To: "Lute List" Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 3:37 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Future facsimiles from the Lute Society On 2 February 2011 23:39, A. J. Ness wrote: Most academic and public research liobraries will have machines that will What kind of scanner do you have for microfilms, David? Brand name? Sorry if I wasn't clear. I don't have a machine, I have a library card in stead. Much cheaper, and I don't have to service the machine. ;-) David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Future facsimiles from the Lute Society
Most academic and public research liobraries will have machines that will take a microfilm and turn it into a *.PDF file, which one can sometimes send to you home computer. Or you can load it onto a disc or USB whatever. The service ios usually free unless you need to print it out. What kind of scanner do you have for microfilms, David? Brand name? Approximate cost? Last time I checked they went for $7,000. Arthur - Original Message - From: "David van Ooijen" To: "Lute Net" Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 5:28 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Future facsimiles from the Lute Society On 2 February 2011 23:23, Matteo Turri wrote: ... and what do you do with a microfilm today? - other than hiding it Bring it to your library and print it. A proper library will have machines to view and print microfilms and -fiches. You can also buy a USB-microfilm scanner and load the images as jpg or pdf into your computer. David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Future facsimiles from the Lute Society
Here's a link to the Society's list of facsimiles, etc., in case there are other things that interest you. Dd 2.11 isn't listed yet: http://www.lutesoc.co.uk/pages/catalogue Some of us have had to wait for 30 years for the Lord Herbert facsimile. Bob Spencer had it at the top of his list, but was unsuccessful in getting the library to release it for a facsimile. It would be at the top of my list, too. It was quite a frustrating experience for him. He would mutter, "We'll just have to wait until he [the librarian] retires." Dd 2.11 is listed "in the pipeline": http://www.lutesoc.co.uk/pages/pipeline - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 7:39 AM Subject: [LUTE] Future facsimiles from the Lute Society There have been some queries about the Lute Society's future plans for publishing facsimiles, following the launch of Cambridge Dd.2.11. Chris Goodwin, the Secretary of the Society, tells me that the next on the list is Herbert of Cherbury, though Dd.2.11 will have to pay for itself first - which sounds like a good reason to go and buy a copy if you haven't yet done so! Simon Lambert Oxford, England -- Scanned by iCritical. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Italian songs
For questions like this, the World Catalogue is a wonderful resource. Be sure to limit your search by clicking the appropriate filter in the left column. (I left off CDs, for example.) In addition to providing bibliographical information about books, it also gives the libraries holding a given item (enter your ZIP code or country). In any event, the facsimile Martyn mention is by Forni and edited by Dinko Fabris and John Griffiths. I used subject and keyword for the search (su:Songs with Lute kw:Bottegari). Here are the "hits" I got: Andrico, Ron, ed. The Bottegari Lute Book: Volume 1. Spencer, N.Y.: Mignarda Editions, 2006. Musical score. Bottegari, Cosimo (Dinko Fabris, and John Griffiths, eds.). Il Libro Di Canto E Liuto =: The Song and Lute Book. Bibliotheca musica Bononiensis, N. 98. Bologna: Arnaldo Forni, 2006. Facsimile score. Curry, Donna. Songs to the Lute: From France, Italy, Spain and Germany for Voice and Renaissance Lute. Luebeck: Tree Edition, 1994. [song anthology: three songs from Bottegari] MacClintock, Carol, ed.. The Bottegari Lutebook. Wellesley, Ma: Wellesley College, 1965. Musical score. Valdrighi, Luigi F., ed. Il Libro Di Canto E Liuto Di Cosimo Bottegari, Fiorentino. Bologna: Forni, 1967. (texts only reprinted from 1891). - Original Message - From: "Martyn Hodgson" <[1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> To: "Helen Atkinson" <[2]helen.atkin...@wordstone.co.uk> Cc: "Lute List" <[3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 5:12 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Italian songs > > Helen, > > Rather later than I think you were looking for, but nevertheless may > interest you, is the Bottegari Lute Book which contains vocal works > with lute tablature from the later 16th century. An edition was done > (by Wellesley Editions) in 1965 which transcribes the tablature into > staff notation but a new edition with transcription into French > tablature is now available from Mignarda Editions ( Ron Andrico). The > below is from their website: > 'The Bottegari Lute Book: Volume One contains music for voice with lute > from the manuscript, including all the sacred music with Latin and > Italian texts, the complete lute solos, and some of the more important > settings of madrigals arranged by Bottegari for solo voice with lute'. > I had the impression that there was a new facsimile edition but can't > find it; perhaps this is to be Volume Two? > > There are also a number of other lute books from this period (say 1570 > -1600) which, tho mostly containing solos, also contain some vocal > items with tablature (eg 'Cavalcanti MS Brussels BR Mus MS II 275). The > vocal line is often embedded in the tablature. > > MH > > -- > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 2. mailto:helen.atkin...@wordstone.co.uk 3. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] CORREWCTED Re: Italian songs
I posted a response before finishing it. Sorry. In 1964 Benvenuti Disertori published a complete edition of the Bossinensis frottola arrangements, with the ricercars which preface each item. And a rather extensive preface with lots of additional pieces for voice and lute. As you remark the Bossinensis arrangements give the soprano voice part in mensural notation (as published in mensural notation in Petrucci's frottola books) with (usually) the tenor and bass part intabulated for the lute. Disertori matched the lute part to the pitch of the voice part (as indicated in Bossinensi's instructions) creating 6 differently pitched lutes. That is, he transposed the LUTE part. The impracticality of that should have raised a few red flags. It is the voice part that must be transposed to fit one appropriately pitched lute. When this happens (and that's why Bossinensis did it that way) the voice part will fall into the same vocal tessitura, making it possible to sing comfortably all 126 frottole (without changing instrument). === Speaking of frottole, Denys and Martin. The Marco ricercar published in the current issue of Lute News is in the style (if not actuality) of a frottola. The meter is alla-breve triple. Each measure represents a beat. The first two notes are a Susanne upbeat: up-up | one-& two-& ; up-up | one . . . It's in Libro secondo, No. 22, in the Opera omnia http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepq31c/marcodallaquila/lsecondotab.html You'll see the comparison of its typical frottola rhythm in the example before the piece proper. Also see the transcriptions. - Original Message - From: "Martin Shepherd" To: "Lute List" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 4:05 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Italian songs Dear Helen, I haven't heard the CD of which you speak, so I don't know which songs they do. Shirley Rumsey did a nice CD on Naxos many years ago which might also be an inspiration (and her Spanish CD is very good too). The two books of frottole published by Bossinensis in 1509 and 1511 are not such a bad place to start. Poems by Petrarch, music by Tromboncino and Cara, nice stuff. The only downside is I'm not sure any modern editions have been done, though as far as I know the facsimiles are still available. I can send you copies of a few songs in my own handwritten edition if you like. Best wishes, Martin On 20/01/2011 06:36, helen.atkin...@wordstone.co.uk wrote: Hi I'm wondering if there is much Italian Renaissance song repertoire available with written out tablature accompaniment. I'm particularly inspired by the material on Julianne Baird and Ronn McFarlane's CD (The Italian Lute Song). Any advice on this would be gratefully received. Helen To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Digitale Bibliothek, Munchener DigitalisierungsZentrum
Not all of these are for lute. I do not understand why they are included here. For an imprtant correction, see Paladino. - Original Message - From: "T.Kakinami" <[1]tk...@orchid.plala.or.jp> To: "'adS'" <[2]rainer.aus-dem-spr...@gmx.de>; "'Lute net'" <[3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 3:32 AM Subject: [LUTE] Diditale Bibliothek, Munchener DigitalisierungsZentrum > This introduction were revised with information from LSA lists. > Thanks to Mr.Wolfgang Wiehe, Mr.Rainer aus dem Spring, Mr.Andreas Schlegel. > > > Attaingnant, Pierre: <>KEYBOARD > [4]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0004/bsb00041544/images/ > > Attaingnant, Pierre: <>KEYBOARD > [5]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0004/bsb00041543/images/ > > Attaingnant, Pierre: <>SATB Chanson part books > [6]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0004/bsb00047853/images/ > > Bakfark, Balint: <>Cracow 1565 > [7]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0003/bsb00031267/images/ > > BSB Mus.ms.266, 1597: <>I do not under stand these numbers 1597, 1592 etc. They are NOT dates. Like most of the lute manuscripts in Munich, this is a fascicle manuscript. That is, it originally consisted of numerous fascicles of mostly unrelated "sheet music" which until about 1860 were stored in an envelop, and bound at that time by a librarian J. J. Meier, who also numbered the pieces in pencil. > [8]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0003/bsb00031681/images/ > > BSB Mus.ms.267, 1592: <>ditto. > [9]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0003/bsb00032067/images/ > > BSB mus.ms.272, 1684: <>German tablature > [10]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0003/bsb00031731/images/ > > BSB Mus.ms.1512, 1595: <>German tablature (modern tablature edition by Darsie) > [11]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0003/bsb00031633/images/ > > BSB Mus.ms.1522: Alfabeto guitar tablature (Bavarian provenance): Tabukaturbuch fuer Guitarre [ex-libris:] H. M. Adelaide di Sauoa, Ellettria di Bauaria > [12]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/0005/bsb00050861/images/ > > BSB Mus.ms.1660: George Vogler: Castor et pollux (Act 1) > [13]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0003/bsb00030058/images/ > > BSB Mus.ms.1660: Vogler: Castor et pollux (Act 2) > [14]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0003/bsb00030059/images/ > > BSB Mus.ms.2492, 1546: Philipp Roth: Concertino fuer das Bassetthorn > [15]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0003/bsb00031338/images/ > > BSB Mus.ms.2987: <> Fascicle manucript > [16]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/bsb00049370/image_1 > > BSB Mus.ms.3156: Tenor Liederbuch (other partbooks lacking) > [17]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0003/bsb00031494/images/ > > Denss, Adrian: Voices and lute. 1594 > [18]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0003/bsb00031268/images/ > > Hesse, Johann H: Lieder (Luebeck, 1757) > [19]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0003/bsb00036050/images/ > > Hinterleuthner, Ferdinand I.: [Hinterleithner] Lauthe Concert (with violin and bass) (1699) > [20]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0005/bsb00052434/images/ > > Judenkunig, Hans: <>Ein schone vnd kunstlich vnterweisung (Wien 1523) > [21]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0004/bsb00043293/images/ > > Judenkunig, Hans: <>Utilis et compendaria (Wien 1523) > [22]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0004/bsb00043257/images/ > > Kinkel, Johanna: <>Hymne (acc. piano or guitar) > [23]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0002/bsb00022948/images/ > > Luedtke Joachim: <>His dissertation on the Hainhofer Lautenbuecher. 1997 > [24]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/bsb00046906/image_1 > > Marcello, Alessandro: <>Violin sonatas > [25]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0004/bsb00040484/images/ > > Neusidler, Hans: <>1536 > [26]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0004/bsb00041542/images/ > > Newsidler, Melchior: <>1574 > [27]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0004/bsb00047078/images/ > > Ochsenkhun, Sebastian: <>1558. (Portrait of SO missing). > [28]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0003/bsb00034906/images/ > > Paix, Jacob: <>Missa in illo tempore (1584) > [29]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/bsb2073/images/ > > Paix, Jacob: <>Newerlessner . . . moteten (1589). Organ tablature > [30]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0003/bsb00031714/images/ > > Paix, Jacob: <>Lieder (ca. 1590) > [31]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/bsb2072/images/ > > Paladino, Giovanni P.: <>There are TWO prints in this volume, the second is the tablature by Francescho Bianchi
[LUTE] Re: Italian songs
Good morning, I have some "Finding Tools" on Wayne's Lute Page. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute/Sources.html Two would be especially useful to you: "1965 Brown." It has an index to works by medium of performance. Covers printed sources of the 16th century. In the second part, "World Catalogue." Search on the subject "Songs with Lute" (su:Songs with Lute" You will get a zillion hits. IMPORTANT: filter your search by using the limiters in the left column. "Musical Score" will limit your hits to 847 items. That also includes on-line scores, many of which cannot be used due to copyright restruictions. But check. But also use the Language limiter, "Italian," and you'll get closer to what you want, with 81 hits. You can register and make your own private list by downloading the bibliographical information for each desired item. - Original Message - From: To: "List LUTELIST" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 1:36 AM Subject: [LUTE] Italian songs Hi I'm wondering if there is much Italian Renaissance song repertoire available with written out tablature accompaniment. I'm particularly inspired by the material on Julianne Baird and Ronn McFarlane's CD (The Italian Lute Song). Any advice on this would be gratefully received. Helen To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Italian songs
In 1964 Benvenutio Disetori published a complete edition of the Bossinensis forttola arrangements, with ricerars to preface each item. As you remakr the Boasinensis arrangements give the soprano voice part in mensuarl notation (as published in Ptrucci's frottola books) wityh (usually) the tenor and bass part intabuated for the lute. - Original Message - From: "Martin Shepherd" To: "Lute List" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 4:05 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Italian songs Dear Helen, I haven't heard the CD of which you speak, so I don't know which songs they do. Shirley Rumsey did a nice CD on Naxos many years ago which might also be an inspiration (and her Spanish CD is very good too). The two books of frottole published by Bossinensis in 1509 and 1511 are not such a bad place to start. Poems by Petrarch, music by Tromboncino and Cara, nice stuff. The only downside is I'm not sure any modern editions have been done, though as far as I know the facsimiles are still available. I can send you copies of a few songs in my own handwritten edition if you like. Best wishes, Martin On 20/01/2011 06:36, helen.atkin...@wordstone.co.uk wrote: Hi I'm wondering if there is much Italian Renaissance song repertoire available with written out tablature accompaniment. I'm particularly inspired by the material on Julianne Baird and Ronn McFarlane's CD (The Italian Lute Song). Any advice on this would be gratefully received. Helen To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Josquin music for lute
Jacob Heringman used Kwee Him Yong's compilation. Kwee Him Yong, "Sixteenth-Century Printed Instrumental Arrangements of Works by Josquin des Prez. An Inventory," _Tijdschrift van de Vereniging voor Nederlandse Muziekgeschiedenis_ 22 (1971), 43-52, 54-66. It's available on JSTOR, but most good music libraries will have that periodical on the shelf. U of Tornoto will surely have it. If not, they must subscribe to JSTOR and you can download the article. Most of the articles are in English. Of course, you need to find the music. But at least with the list you know what to look for. Also for materials after 1971 (Kwee's date) you can use these finding tools: http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute/Sources.html Espeically 1991-9 Christan Meyer et al., the on-line index, linked there. ajn - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 11:04 AM Subject: [LUTE] Josquin music for lute Hi, everyone - I'm taking part in a concert of Josquin music, for which I'm planning to play some transcriptions of Josquin pieces transcribed/adapted for lute by other composers. I've been listening to Jacob Heringman's album of these kind of transcriptions, and I'm wondering if anyone knows online resources from which one might find some of these transcriptions. Thanks! Ben S To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Shakespeare settings
U of Texas? Dallas? Yes, it'd be there. Also the Tjidskrift would be there, too. Most of it is in English, not Dutch. - Original Message - From: To: "A. J. Ness" Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Shakespeare settings Right - I might be able to get it at U of T. Thanks again - BCS Quoting "A. J. Ness" : JSTOR is a service that many libraries rpovide. I use it through the Boston Public Library, for example. You'll need it for Kwee Him Yong's article, too. (Josquin) - Original Message - From: To: "A. J. Ness" Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 12:44 PM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Shakespeare settings Dude, thanks - that is very helpful. Do you need to have an online account for JSTOR? Cheers - BCS Quoting "A. J. Ness" : You'll need to bring along your wheelbarrow to haul the books home. Ross W. Duffin, _Shakespeare's Songbook_ NY: W.W.Norton, 2004). 528 pp. Claude M. Simpson, _The British Broadside Ballad and its Music_ (New Brunswick: Rutgers University Press, 1966). xxxiii + 919 pp. Simpson is augmented with John M. Ward, "Apropos 'The British Broadside Ballad and Its Music'," _Journal of the American Musicological Society_ 20 (1967): 28-86. [Available online through JSTOR] - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 11:07 AM Subject: [LUTE] Shakespeare settings Hi, all! I'm doing a concert of Renaissance and Restoration settings of Shakespeare lyrics, as well as including some lutesong from the Elizabethan era - Dowland, Pilkington. I've got some Thomas Arne settings of lyrics from As You Like It. Any other suggestions for similar rep? There are a number of singers involved for madrigal singing, as well as theorbo/lute and harpshichord/organ. Thanks! Ben S To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Shakespeare settings
P.S., Of course, you can read the journal itself, available in most music libraries. - Original Message - From: "A. J. Ness" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 1:35 PM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Shakespeare settings JSTOR is a service that many libraries rpovide. I use it through the Boston Public Library, for example. You'll need it for Kwee Him Yong's article, too. (Josquin) - Original Message ----- From: To: "A. J. Ness" Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 12:44 PM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Shakespeare settings Dude, thanks - that is very helpful. Do you need to have an online account for JSTOR? Cheers - BCS Quoting "A. J. Ness" : You'll need to bring along your wheelbarrow to haul the books home. Ross W. Duffin, _Shakespeare's Songbook_ NY: W.W.Norton, 2004). 528 pp. Claude M. Simpson, _The British Broadside Ballad and its Music_ (New Brunswick: Rutgers University Press, 1966). xxxiii + 919 pp. Simpson is augmented with John M. Ward, "Apropos 'The British Broadside Ballad and Its Music'," _Journal of the American Musicological Society_ 20 (1967): 28-86. [Available online through JSTOR] - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 11:07 AM Subject: [LUTE] Shakespeare settings Hi, all! I'm doing a concert of Renaissance and Restoration settings of Shakespeare lyrics, as well as including some lutesong from the Elizabethan era - Dowland, Pilkington. I've got some Thomas Arne settings of lyrics from As You Like It. Any other suggestions for similar rep? There are a number of singers involved for madrigal singing, as well as theorbo/lute and harpshichord/organ. Thanks! Ben S To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Shakespeare settings
You'll need to bring along your wheelbarrow to haul the books home. Ross W. Duffin, _Shakespeare's Songbook_ NY: W.W.Norton, 2004). 528 pp. Claude M. Simpson, _The British Broadside Ballad and its Music_ (New Brunswick: Rutgers University Press, 1966). xxxiii + 919 pp. Simpson is augmented with John M. Ward, "Apropos 'The British Broadside Ballad and Its Music'," _Journal of the American Musicological Society_ 20 (1967): 28-86. [Available online through JSTOR] - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 11:07 AM Subject: [LUTE] Shakespeare settings Hi, all! I'm doing a concert of Renaissance and Restoration settings of Shakespeare lyrics, as well as including some lutesong from the Elizabethan era - Dowland, Pilkington. I've got some Thomas Arne settings of lyrics from As You Like It. Any other suggestions for similar rep? There are a number of singers involved for madrigal singing, as well as theorbo/lute and harpshichord/organ. Thanks! Ben S To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New piece of the month + FdaM update
Dear Martin, It's always nice to see Francesco in different readings. And there are many to chose from. Just a few comments as a postscript for your posting. The title of No. 4 is simply Recercata. "Ser zimlich" is a comment added by a hand and pen distinctly different from that of the tablature scribe. Madame Rollin didn't always read these correctly. On folio 103v, for example, the comment is "Sp shlect vnd zimlich gueth." Most of the comments begin with "Sp" which she omits. "Sp[ielt] schlect und ziemlich gut." That is "Plays nice and rather good." As Kurt Dorfmueller explained to me, "schlect" (which mean "bad" in today's German) meant "nice" back then. So the comment is not contradictory. The comments may be a teacher remarking on a student's performance of the piece, or perhaps the comments were jotted by owner of the manuscript to remind him/herself on the quality of the pieces. There's no question about the Bavarian origins of Paris, Rés 429, specifically Augsburg. The scribe of the second part of the manucript and also the commentary hand also appear in the Marco fascicle of Mus Ms 266 in Munich, which came from the huge Augsburg Library of Hans Heinrich Herwarth (1520-1582), which was purchased by the Bavarian Court in 1586 and forms the core of the rare prints and manuscripts in music section of the Bavarian State Library in Munich. For the most part it is a direct "translation" of the Sulzbachius (Naples 1536) Neapolitan tablature into Italian tablature. A bit more, later. ajn. - Original Message - From: "Martin Shepherd" To: "Lute List" Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 10:43 AM Subject: [LUTE] New piece of the month + FdaM update Hi All, The new piece of the month might be (!) by Francesco da Milano - and I've added another previously unknown concordance for Ness 75 (thanks to John Robinson). You can see and hear both pieces at: www.luteshop.co.uk/month/pieceofthemonth.htm I have also added some pieces to my Francesco da Milano page - see nos. 10, 15, 75, 82 and 92 at: www.luteshop.co.uk/fdam/fdam.html Best wishes, Martin To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New piece of the month + FdaM update
The three may be parodies of the same vocal model. - Original Message - From: "A. J. Ness" To: "Martin Shepherd" ; "Lute List" Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 4:43 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: New piece of the month + FdaM update The "Fantasia de Lopez" in Madrid 6001 also has the same beginning. - Original Message - From: "Martin Shepherd" To: "Lute List" Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 4:29 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: New piece of the month + FdaM update Thanks, Ron. In fact it was you who drew my attention to the connection when I published the Marsh piece as a "piece of the month" in April 2008 with thanks for your contribution. So now we have another connected piece - though the connection is much stronger with the CH piece, which is clearly just a decorated version of Ness 75, whereas the Marsh piece only starts with the same theme. This time I made a fresh recording of Ness 75 to replace the rather unsatisfactory one from 2008. The Marsh piece is the best of the three, by far - and thanks to Gail Gillispie for drawing it to my attention at the LSA LuteFest in 2004. I guess we're all addicted to polyphony on the lute, and I just love these connections! Martin On 09/01/2011 20:56, Ron Andrico wrote: Hello Martin: Very nice performances of the Francesco pieces. Some years ago on this list, I pointed out that N 75 bears a strong resemblance to the (unfortunately corrupt) 'Fansye' on page 235 of the Marsh ms. Has anyone else noticed this? Best wishes, Ron Andrico www.mignarda.com > Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 15:43:48 + > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > From: mar...@luteshop.co.uk > Subject: [LUTE] New piece of the month + FdaM update > > Hi All, > > The new piece of the month might be (!) by Francesco da Milano - and > I've added another previously unknown concordance for Ness 75 (thanks to > John Robinson). You can see and hear both pieces at: > > www.luteshop.co.uk/month/pieceofthemonth.htm > > I have also added some pieces to my Francesco da Milano page - see nos. > 10, 15, 75, 82 and 92 at: > > www.luteshop.co.uk/fdam/fdam.html > > Best wishes, > > Martin > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: New piece of the month + FdaM update
The "Fantasia de Lopez" in Madrid 6001 also has the same beginning. - Original Message - From: "Martin Shepherd" To: "Lute List" Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 4:29 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: New piece of the month + FdaM update Thanks, Ron. In fact it was you who drew my attention to the connection when I published the Marsh piece as a "piece of the month" in April 2008 with thanks for your contribution. So now we have another connected piece - though the connection is much stronger with the CH piece, which is clearly just a decorated version of Ness 75, whereas the Marsh piece only starts with the same theme. This time I made a fresh recording of Ness 75 to replace the rather unsatisfactory one from 2008. The Marsh piece is the best of the three, by far - and thanks to Gail Gillispie for drawing it to my attention at the LSA LuteFest in 2004. I guess we're all addicted to polyphony on the lute, and I just love these connections! Martin On 09/01/2011 20:56, Ron Andrico wrote: Hello Martin: Very nice performances of the Francesco pieces. Some years ago on this list, I pointed out that N 75 bears a strong resemblance to the (unfortunately corrupt) 'Fansye' on page 235 of the Marsh ms. Has anyone else noticed this? Best wishes, Ron Andrico www.mignarda.com > Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 15:43:48 + > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > From: mar...@luteshop.co.uk > Subject: [LUTE] New piece of the month + FdaM update > > Hi All, > > The new piece of the month might be (!) by Francesco da Milano - and > I've added another previously unknown concordance for Ness 75 (thanks to > John Robinson). You can see and hear both pieces at: > > www.luteshop.co.uk/month/pieceofthemonth.htm > > I have also added some pieces to my Francesco da Milano page - see nos. > 10, 15, 75, 82 and 92 at: > > www.luteshop.co.uk/fdam/fdam.html > > Best wishes, > > Martin > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] English solo music ca 1500-1525?
David, Of course you can search under Henry VIII. Use the World Catalogue. I forgot to mention an important publication if you make your own arrangements: _Music at the Court of Henry VIII,_ vol. 18 of Musica Britannica (rev. ed., 1978). - Original Message - From: "David van Ooijen" To: "A. J. Ness" Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 6:40 PM Subject: Re: [LUTE] English solo music ca 1500-1525? Thanks Arthur! A wealth of information. I'll look into Ward. Van Wilder I know (I have the Lute Society Edition). And all the others. Should be enough to start me of with. David On 7 January 2011 17:18, A. J. Ness wrote: Dear David, A good reference source is JOHN WARD's _Music for Elizabethan Lutes_ (2 vols.), and one would surely start with PHILIP VAN WILDER, as early as 1525 a member of the King’s Musick (ps: G. Crona cites the Lute Society edition**). Ward has a list of works by Wilder on page 5-6. Many are in familiar, but later, lute manuscripts: Paston Lute Book (ii), Wickhambrook, Willoughby etc.. Most are attr. to "Phillip," and some may be by Peter Phillips, but Ward tries to separate them out. These include "Dumpe philli" and "Artheres dumpe" (Fink* Nos. 16 and 17). RAPH BOWLE'S LUTE BOOK (London, BL, Stowe 389) includes "Kyng Henry the VIIIth Pavyn" (transc. Ex. 8 in vol. 2 of Ward). And what is surely one of the the most beautiful songs of the English 16th century, "My hearte ys Leifd on the Londe" (Facs. with underlaid lyrics Plate 4 in vol. 1; melody Ex. 6a in vol. 2--Ward's underlaid lyrics could be improved). Ward provides the complete lyrics in the Commentary, page 107. If sung, this would provide the lutenist with lots of opportunity to improvise divisions for each of the eleven stanzas. London, BL, ROYAL APPENDIX 58, has several pieces of interest incl. the "Duke of Somersetes Dompe" (Fink No. 1). The most famous piece, lyrics presumably by Henry VIII, is "Pastyme with Good Company." It uses a borrowed melody, known on the Continent as "De mon triste." Richafort's setting is intabulated by Francesco, and as a fantasia by him and by Pierino Fiorentino (Ness, App. No. 32). The melody turns up all over the place, incl. as a Lutheran chorale (harmonized by JSB), etc., etc., and even in a songbook in the Huron Native American language (as Charlotte discovered in a term paper). I found it in an out of the way place, as a canzone titled "Pas de mi bon compagni" in Pre Melchiore de Barberiis's _Opera intitolata Contino_ (Venice, 1549), sig Ee3v. How'd it get there? Barberiis knew the papal secretary Bembo. So much Italian music flowed westward to the British Isles, but practically no English music found its way to the Continent until the advent of Dowland and his contemporaries. *Michael Fink, ed., _Down in the Dompes: The Collected English Lute Dumps_ (LGV Publishing, Inc., 2008; www.lgv-pub.com). French tablature. **David Humphreys et al., eds., _Philip van Wilder: Music for Lute and Chanson Transcriptions._ 49 pp. http://www.lutesoc.co.uk/pages/catalogue#c It's a start with a fascinating repertory, David. Arthur. - Original Message - From: "David van Ooijen" To: "lutelist Net" Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 6:46 AM Subject: [LUTE] English solo music ca 1500-1525? A question to the collected wisdom. I am looking for English solo music from the first quarter of the 16th century. To be more precise, from the first 15 years of the reign of Henry VIII and if possible connected to him or his court in any way, but I cannot have it all, I suppose, so near misses will be considered right on target. Any suggestions welcome. David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl ***
