What do you think?
I just got wind, from a friend of mine, that the only reason Apple is accessible to us is because of a lawsuit by the NFB. The term of the agreement was for accessibility improvements for three years. Here's a question. First, what's your side of this ordeal? Second, who thinks Apple will keep up with the accessibility improvements after this three year term is up? I apologize for making smooth waters mirky, I just wanted to know what your take on this was. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: What do you think?
They've put too much effert into this to F it up and they'll have hell if they don't keep up with it and not to mentioin lose a load of customers - Original Message - From: Rob Lambert To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 2:08 AM Subject: What do you think? I just got wind, from a friend of mine, that the only reason Apple is accessible to us is because of a lawsuit by the NFB. The term of the agreement was for accessibility improvements for three years. Here's a question. First, what's your side of this ordeal? Second, who thinks Apple will keep up with the accessibility improvements after this three year term is up? I apologize for making smooth waters mirky, I just wanted to know what your take on this was. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: NLS DTB players, usb flash drives, formating on a mac, cartrage errors Help?
Hi all There is an iPhone daisy player starting beta testing now. Created by the same people as Olearia at Curtin Uni, but a complete re-write. Its not fully functional yet but very close. NLS support is planned btw. On 12/04/2010, at 8:57 AM, Frank Tom wrote: Hi there, I don't know anything about windows formating, but I do about the NLS player. I use 4 gjig thumbn drives without any problems. I insert them in the same slot as the regular cartridges go. This way they are protected; a little more difficult to get them in and out but a lot safer. According to NLS, larger thumb drives will give you a problem. I bought a three pack at Costco for around 30 dollars. I was sure hoping for an I Phone daisy NLS app but I don't think it will ever happen. Tom Frank vermont...@gmail.com On Apr 11, 2010, at 10:02 AM, Jenny Kennedy(Howard) wrote: Good morning everyone, Thanks for the suggestion of the kingston data traveler I plan to obtain one as soon as I am able. What size is best? Also why will the two flash drives I currently have format and work fine in the dtb player if they are formated on a windows computer but give me cartrage errors galore if done on a Mac? And Jesssica I have the same weird problem you spoke to. I'll remove books off a flash drive but the flash drive still is full even tho there are no dtbs on it. What's up with that? And apart from reformatting the silly thing is there anything to be done for it? Sorry so full of questions... I am very thankful for the help :-) Ms. Jenny Kennedy Kansas City, Ks -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. Dr Iain Murray (B.Eng)(Hons) Ph.D(Curtin) MIEEE Senior Lecturer Course Co-ordinator - Bachelor of Technology (Computer Systems Networking) Rehabilitation Engineering Assistive Technology Research Laboratory Department of Electrical Computer Engineering Curtin University of Technology GPO Box U1987 Perth 6845 WA Australia Ph +61 8 92664540 Fax +61 8 92662584 email i.mur...@curtin.edu.au web http://www.cucat.org -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. inline: cucat_no_title.png
Re: What do you think?
Hi, I seriously doubt that is the case. Apple accessibility has been around for six years now, not three. I doubt NFB had anything to do with it. Apple is going to keep it up because they are committed. The article about the lawsuit doesn't actually mention Apple much. There is actually a very good point of view. Apple poses a threat to the NFB of taking over the technical market. This is why NFB did not sue Skype, but Apple. Agreement or not, I'm pretty sure they listened to users using Outspoken and such, rather than an organization that can't even review the product properly when it is out. Apple has done far more than anyone for accessibility improvements. Apple said they had something in store, and they sure did. I of course realize that it is a pretty serious statement. Of course, I am not particularly a fan of the NFB at all. Saying that, NFB has made some seriously inaccurate statements as well, far outweighing mine. NFB actually has no reason to sue Apple. What would they sue them for, exactly? Because their products are accessible, and they want everyone to pay more than what a Macbook costs for assistive technology? That wouldn't actually surprise me much. It's all about competition. If they think they're about to be kicked out, of course they would consider Apple a threat. Because Apple has done something Microsoft has not. All these things sound really twisted and disgusting to me. Apple can hardly be sued for their effort. Their lawsuit had to do with iTunes on the Windows side. Fair enough, but that is a pretty ridiculous suit if it really is based on accessibility. That is not the case, however, as there are plenty of other useful programs for PCs that are not anywhere near as accessible as iTunes 9. And NFB doesn't care about that. Which, again, leads me to believe that, because NFB is scared of being kicked out, they do everything they can to stop people buying their product. That would make sense. Windows users rely on scripts all the time to use any application. I suggest you look through your jAWS folder to see what I mean. Have you even seen just the download size of a JAWS installation? It's outrageous. People who moan about iTunes not being accessible just because the interface accidentally broke, just need to use scripts like they do for everything else. I'm surprised that wasn't their first complaint. JAWS, or just Windows in general, isn't even that stable. If JAWS crashes, it's stupidly difficult most of the time to reload the product. Even if you manage to do so, you will probably run into the screen not being read correctly when reading list boxes or with the cursor. Or, the worst-case scenario. You have to uninstall JAWS 11 after attempting to install Video Intercept, reinstall JAWS 10, install VIdeo Intercept, uninstall JAWS 10 then reinstall JAWS 11. Maybe I'm slamming the NFB a bit, but really, they need a kick in the ass. I'm just happy the Danish blindness organizations are not this corrupt and twisted, and they actually review fairly and take a proper look at what a company offers before suing them. I'll always be negative about the NFB, though I am actually being neutral when talking about the actual lawsuit itself. Say what you want to, it won't change my mind. Even if it is someone from NFB saying it. Some NFB people are great. Some do incredibly good reviews. Some don't. And in whole, I think the organization just sucks for filing unnecessary lawsuits for nothing. Maybe I'm going on a childish tantrum here, perhaps. But once in a while, you need to. A company is trying to provide great accessibility for their products, and they are sued because of one problem. iTunes is actually still useful on the Windows side, people. Quit your darn nitpicking. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 15, 2010, at 8:08 AM, Rob Lambert wrote: I just got wind, from a friend of mine, that the only reason Apple is accessible to us is because of a lawsuit by the NFB. The term of the agreement was for accessibility improvements for three years. Here's a question. First, what's your side of this ordeal? Second, who thinks Apple will keep up with the accessibility improvements after this three year term is up? I apologize for making smooth waters mirky, I just wanted to know what your take on this was. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to
Re: What do you think?
Hello Nic, Thank you for this post. You've just saved me from going on a major rant along the same lines. Cheers, Anne On Apr 15, 2010, at 9:14 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, I seriously doubt that is the case. Apple accessibility has been around for six years now, not three. I doubt NFB had anything to do with it. Apple is going to keep it up because they are committed. The article about the lawsuit doesn't actually mention Apple much. There is actually a very good point of view. Apple poses a threat to the NFB of taking over the technical market. This is why NFB did not sue Skype, but Apple. Agreement or not, I'm pretty sure they listened to users using Outspoken and such, rather than an organization that can't even review the product properly when it is out. Apple has done far more than anyone for accessibility improvements. Apple said they had something in store, and they sure did. I of course realize that it is a pretty serious statement. Of course, I am not particularly a fan of the NFB at all. Saying that, NFB has made some seriously inaccurate statements as well, far outweighing mine. NFB actually has no reason to sue Apple. What would they sue them for, exactly? Because their products are accessible, and they want everyone to pay more than what a Macbook costs for assistive technology? That wouldn't actually surprise me much. It's all about competition. If they think they're about to be kicked out, of course they would consider Apple a threat. Because Apple has done something Microsoft has not. All these things sound really twisted and disgusting to me. Apple can hardly be sued for their effort. Their lawsuit had to do with iTunes on the Windows side. Fair enough, but that is a pretty ridiculous suit if it really is based on accessibility. That is not the case, however, as there are plenty of other useful programs for PCs that are not anywhere near as accessible as iTunes 9. And NFB doesn't care about that. Which, again, leads me to believe that, because NFB is scared of being kicked out, they do everything they can to stop people buying their product. That would make sense. Windows users rely on scripts all the time to use any application. I suggest you look through your jAWS folder to see what I mean. Have you even seen just the download size of a JAWS installation? It's outrageous. People who moan about iTunes not being accessible just because the interface accidentally broke, just need to use scripts like they do for everything else. I'm surprised that wasn't their first complaint. JAWS, or just Windows in general, isn't even that stable. If JAWS crashes, it's stupidly difficult most of the time to reload the product. Even if you manage to do so, you will probably run into the screen not being read correctly when reading list boxes or with the cursor. Or, the worst-case scenario. You have to uninstall JAWS 11 after attempting to install Video Intercept, reinstall JAWS 10, install VIdeo Intercept, uninstall JAWS 10 then reinstall JAWS 11. Maybe I'm slamming the NFB a bit, but really, they need a kick in the ass. I'm just happy the Danish blindness organizations are not this corrupt and twisted, and they actually review fairly and take a proper look at what a company offers before suing them. I'll always be negative about the NFB, though I am actually being neutral when talking about the actual lawsuit itself. Say what you want to, it won't change my mind. Even if it is someone from NFB saying it. Some NFB people are great. Some do incredibly good reviews. Some don't. And in whole, I think the organization just sucks for filing unnecessary lawsuits for nothing. Maybe I'm going on a childish tantrum here, perhaps. But once in a while, you need to. A company is trying to provide great accessibility for their products, and they are sued because of one problem. iTunes is actually still useful on the Windows side, people. Quit your darn nitpicking. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 15, 2010, at 8:08 AM, Rob Lambert wrote: I just got wind, from a friend of mine, that the only reason Apple is accessible to us is because of a lawsuit by the NFB. The term of the agreement was for accessibility improvements for three years. Here's a question. First, what's your side of this ordeal? Second, who thinks Apple will keep up with the accessibility improvements after this three year term is up? I apologize for making smooth waters mirky, I just wanted to know what your take on this was. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For
Re: What do you think?
I apologize if I opened a can of worms. On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 12:30 AM, Anne Robertson a...@anarchie.org.ukwrote: Hello Nic, Thank you for this post. You've just saved me from going on a major rant along the same lines. Cheers, Anne On Apr 15, 2010, at 9:14 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, I seriously doubt that is the case. Apple accessibility has been around for six years now, not three. I doubt NFB had anything to do with it. Apple is going to keep it up because they are committed. The article about the lawsuit doesn't actually mention Apple much. There is actually a very good point of view. Apple poses a threat to the NFB of taking over the technical market. This is why NFB did not sue Skype, but Apple. Agreement or not, I'm pretty sure they listened to users using Outspoken and such, rather than an organization that can't even review the product properly when it is out. Apple has done far more than anyone for accessibility improvements. Apple said they had something in store, and they sure did. I of course realize that it is a pretty serious statement. Of course, I am not particularly a fan of the NFB at all. Saying that, NFB has made some seriously inaccurate statements as well, far outweighing mine. NFB actually has no reason to sue Apple. What would they sue them for, exactly? Because their products are accessible, and they want everyone to pay more than what a Macbook costs for assistive technology? That wouldn't actually surprise me much. It's all about competition. If they think they're about to be kicked out, of course they would consider Apple a threat. Because Apple has done something Microsoft has not. All these things sound really twisted and disgusting to me. Apple can hardly be sued for their effort. Their lawsuit had to do with iTunes on the Windows side. Fair enough, but that is a pretty ridiculous suit if it really is based on accessibility. That is not the case, however, as there are plenty of other useful programs for PCs that are not anywhere near as accessible as iTunes 9. And NFB doesn't care about that. Which, again, leads me to believe that, because NFB is scared of being kicked out, they do everything they can to stop people buying their product. That would make sense. Windows users rely on scripts all the time to use any application. I suggest you look through your jAWS folder to see what I mean. Have you even seen just the download size of a JAWS installation? It's outrageous. People who moan about iTunes not being accessible just because the interface accidentally broke, just need to use scripts like they do for everything else. I'm surprised that wasn't their first complaint. JAWS, or just Windows in general, isn't even that stable. If JAWS crashes, it's stupidly difficult most of the time to reload the product. Even if you manage to do so, you will probably run into the screen not being read correctly when reading list boxes or with the cursor. Or, the worst-case scenario. You have to uninstall JAWS 11 after attempting to install Video Intercept, reinstall JAWS 10, install VIdeo Intercept, uninstall JAWS 10 then reinstall JAWS 11. Maybe I'm slamming the NFB a bit, but really, they need a kick in the ass. I'm just happy the Danish blindness organizations are not this corrupt and twisted, and they actually review fairly and take a proper look at what a company offers before suing them. I'll always be negative about the NFB, though I am actually being neutral when talking about the actual lawsuit itself. Say what you want to, it won't change my mind. Even if it is someone from NFB saying it. Some NFB people are great. Some do incredibly good reviews. Some don't. And in whole, I think the organization just sucks for filing unnecessary lawsuits for nothing. Maybe I'm going on a childish tantrum here, perhaps. But once in a while, you need to. A company is trying to provide great accessibility for their products, and they are sued because of one problem. iTunes is actually still useful on the Windows side, people. Quit your darn nitpicking. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 15, 2010, at 8:08 AM, Rob Lambert wrote: I just got wind, from a friend of mine, that the only reason Apple is accessible to us is because of a lawsuit by the NFB. The term of the agreement was for accessibility improvements for three years. Here's a question. First, what's your side of this ordeal? Second, who thinks Apple will keep up with the accessibility improvements after this three year term is up? I apologize for making smooth waters mirky, I just wanted to know what your take on this was. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To
Re: What do you think?
Takes a deep breath. Oh yeah, like the damn nfb cares. if they cared so much, then why don't training centers demo macs. It's call money. I hate the * nfb. - Original Message - From: Anne Robertson a...@anarchie.org.uk To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 3:30 AM Subject: Re: What do you think? Hello Nic, Thank you for this post. You've just saved me from going on a major rant along the same lines. Cheers, Anne On Apr 15, 2010, at 9:14 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, I seriously doubt that is the case. Apple accessibility has been around for six years now, not three. I doubt NFB had anything to do with it. Apple is going to keep it up because they are committed. The article about the lawsuit doesn't actually mention Apple much. There is actually a very good point of view. Apple poses a threat to the NFB of taking over the technical market. This is why NFB did not sue Skype, but Apple. Agreement or not, I'm pretty sure they listened to users using Outspoken and such, rather than an organization that can't even review the product properly when it is out. Apple has done far more than anyone for accessibility improvements. Apple said they had something in store, and they sure did. I of course realize that it is a pretty serious statement. Of course, I am not particularly a fan of the NFB at all. Saying that, NFB has made some seriously inaccurate statements as well, far outweighing mine. NFB actually has no reason to sue Apple. What would they sue them for, exactly? Because their products are accessible, and they want everyone to pay more than what a Macbook costs for assistive technology? That wouldn't actually surprise me much. It's all about competition. If they think they're about to be kicked out, of course they would consider Apple a threat. Because Apple has done something Microsoft has not. All these things sound really twisted and disgusting to me. Apple can hardly be sued for their effort. Their lawsuit had to do with iTunes on the Windows side. Fair enough, but that is a pretty ridiculous suit if it really is based on accessibility. That is not the case, however, as there are plenty of other useful programs for PCs that are not anywhere near as accessible as iTunes 9. And NFB doesn't care about that. Which, again, leads me to believe that, because NFB is scared of being kicked out, they do everything they can to stop people buying their product. That would make sense. Windows users rely on scripts all the time to use any application. I suggest you look through your jAWS folder to see what I mean. Have you even seen just the download size of a JAWS installation? It's outrageous. People who moan about iTunes not being accessible just because the interface accidentally broke, just need to use scripts like they do for everything else. I'm surprised that wasn't their first complaint. JAWS, or just Windows in general, isn't even that stable. If JAWS crashes, it's stupidly difficult most of the time to reload the product. Even if you manage to do so, you will probably run into the screen not being read correctly when reading list boxes or with the cursor. Or, the worst-case scenario. You have to uninstall JAWS 11 after attempting to install Video Intercept, reinstall JAWS 10, install VIdeo Intercept, uninstall JAWS 10 then reinstall JAWS 11. Maybe I'm slamming the NFB a bit, but really, they need a kick in the ass. I'm just happy the Danish blindness organizations are not this corrupt and twisted, and they actually review fairly and take a proper look at what a company offers before suing them. I'll always be negative about the NFB, though I am actually being neutral when talking about the actual lawsuit itself. Say what you want to, it won't change my mind. Even if it is someone from NFB saying it. Some NFB people are great. Some do incredibly good reviews. Some don't. And in whole, I think the organization just sucks for filing unnecessary lawsuits for nothing. Maybe I'm going on a childish tantrum here, perhaps. But once in a while, you need to. A company is trying to provide great accessibility for their products, and they are sued because of one problem. iTunes is actually still useful on the Windows side, people. Quit your darn nitpicking. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 15, 2010, at 8:08 AM, Rob Lambert wrote: I just got wind, from a friend of mine, that the only reason Apple is accessible to us is because of a lawsuit by the NFB. The term of the agreement was for accessibility improvements for three years. Here's a question. First, what's your side of this ordeal? Second, who thinks Apple will keep up with the accessibility improvements after this three year term is up? I apologize for making smooth waters mirky, I just wanted to know what your take on this was.
Re: What do you think?
I would also like to thank you, Nic, for saving my bacon. Like Anne I was going to take issue with NFB and others who love to gripe for the sake of griping. You saved me from being called tactless twice in the same week. Even though I don't use Jaws the idea of uninstall, install, uninstall, install, no matter what program, gives me the creeps. Sent from the iPad I wish I had On Apr 14, 2010, at 9:30 PM, Anne Robertson a...@anarchie.org.uk wrote: Hello Nic, Thank you for this post. You've just saved me from going on a major rant along the same lines. Cheers, Anne On Apr 15, 2010, at 9:14 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, I seriously doubt that is the case. Apple accessibility has been around for six years now, not three. I doubt NFB had anything to do with it. Apple is going to keep it up because they are committed. The article about the lawsuit doesn't actually mention Apple much. There is actually a very good point of view. Apple poses a threat to the NFB of taking over the technical market. This is why NFB did not sue Skype, but Apple. Agreement or not, I'm pretty sure they listened to users using Outspoken and such, rather than an organization that can't even review the product properly when it is out. Apple has done far more than anyone for accessibility improvements. Apple said they had something in store, and they sure did. I of course realize that it is a pretty serious statement. Of course, I am not particularly a fan of the NFB at all. Saying that, NFB has made some seriously inaccurate statements as well, far outweighing mine. NFB actually has no reason to sue Apple. What would they sue them for, exactly? Because their products are accessible, and they want everyone to pay more than what a Macbook costs for assistive technology? That wouldn't actually surprise me much. It's all about competition. If they think they're about to be kicked out, of course they would consider Apple a threat. Because Apple has done something Microsoft has not. All these things sound really twisted and disgusting to me. Apple can hardly be sued for their effort. Their lawsuit had to do with iTunes on the Windows side. Fair enough, but that is a pretty ridiculous suit if it really is based on accessibility. That is not the case, however, as there are plenty of other useful programs for PCs that are not anywhere near as accessible as iTunes 9. And NFB doesn't care about that. Which, again, leads me to believe that, because NFB is scared of being kicked out, they do everything they can to stop people buying their product. That would make sense. Windows users rely on scripts all the time to use any application. I suggest you look through your jAWS folder to see what I mean. Have you even seen just the download size of a JAWS installation? It's outrageous. People who moan about iTunes not being accessible just because the interface accidentally broke, just need to use scripts like they do for everything else. I'm surprised that wasn't their first complaint. JAWS, or just Windows in general, isn't even that stable. If JAWS crashes, it's stupidly difficult most of the time to reload the product. Even if you manage to do so, you will probably run into the screen not being read correctly when reading list boxes or with the cursor. Or, the worst-case scenario. You have to uninstall JAWS 11 after attempting to install Video Intercept, reinstall JAWS 10, install VIdeo Intercept, uninstall JAWS 10 then reinstall JAWS 11. Maybe I'm slamming the NFB a bit, but really, they need a kick in the ass. I'm just happy the Danish blindness organizations are not this corrupt and twisted, and they actually review fairly and take a proper look at what a company offers before suing them. I'll always be negative about the NFB, though I am actually being neutral when talking about the actual lawsuit itself. Say what you want to, it won't change my mind. Even if it is someone from NFB saying it. Some NFB people are great. Some do incredibly good reviews. Some don't. And in whole, I think the organization just sucks for filing unnecessary lawsuits for nothing. Maybe I'm going on a childish tantrum here, perhaps. But once in a while, you need to. A company is trying to provide great accessibility for their products, and they are sued because of one problem. iTunes is actually still useful on the Windows side, people. Quit your darn nitpicking. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 15, 2010, at 8:08 AM, Rob Lambert wrote: I just got wind, from a friend of mine, that the only reason Apple is accessible to us is because of a lawsuit by the NFB. The term of the agreement was for accessibility improvements for three years. Here's a question. First, what's your side of this ordeal? Second, who
Re: What do you think?
lol, that made me chuckle a bit. nfb have so many issues and I feel bad for the newly blinded who don't know any better, but they can't f those who've been blind over. I walked out of the training center in mississippi giving them the finger. - Original Message - From: Charlie Doremus giantdolp...@gmail.com To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 4:12 AM Subject: Re: What do you think? I would also like to thank you, Nic, for saving my bacon. Like Anne I was going to take issue with NFB and others who love to gripe for the sake of griping. You saved me from being called tactless twice in the same week. Even though I don't use Jaws the idea of uninstall, install, uninstall, install, no matter what program, gives me the creeps. Sent from the iPad I wish I had On Apr 14, 2010, at 9:30 PM, Anne Robertson a...@anarchie.org.uk wrote: Hello Nic, Thank you for this post. You've just saved me from going on a major rant along the same lines. Cheers, Anne On Apr 15, 2010, at 9:14 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, I seriously doubt that is the case. Apple accessibility has been around for six years now, not three. I doubt NFB had anything to do with it. Apple is going to keep it up because they are committed. The article about the lawsuit doesn't actually mention Apple much. There is actually a very good point of view. Apple poses a threat to the NFB of taking over the technical market. This is why NFB did not sue Skype, but Apple. Agreement or not, I'm pretty sure they listened to users using Outspoken and such, rather than an organization that can't even review the product properly when it is out. Apple has done far more than anyone for accessibility improvements. Apple said they had something in store, and they sure did. I of course realize that it is a pretty serious statement. Of course, I am not particularly a fan of the NFB at all. Saying that, NFB has made some seriously inaccurate statements as well, far outweighing mine. NFB actually has no reason to sue Apple. What would they sue them for, exactly? Because their products are accessible, and they want everyone to pay more than what a Macbook costs for assistive technology? That wouldn't actually surprise me much. It's all about competition. If they think they're about to be kicked out, of course they would consider Apple a threat. Because Apple has done something Microsoft has not. All these things sound really twisted and disgusting to me. Apple can hardly be sued for their effort. Their lawsuit had to do with iTunes on the Windows side. Fair enough, but that is a pretty ridiculous suit if it really is based on accessibility. That is not the case, however, as there are plenty of other useful programs for PCs that are not anywhere near as accessible as iTunes 9. And NFB doesn't care about that. Which, again, leads me to believe that, because NFB is scared of being kicked out, they do everything they can to stop people buying their product. That would make sense. Windows users rely on scripts all the time to use any application. I suggest you look through your jAWS folder to see what I mean. Have you even seen just the download size of a JAWS installation? It's outrageous. People who moan about iTunes not being accessible just because the interface accidentally broke, just need to use scripts like they do for everything else. I'm surprised that wasn't their first complaint. JAWS, or just Windows in general, isn't even that stable. If JAWS crashes, it's stupidly difficult most of the time to reload the product. Even if you manage to do so, you will probably run into the screen not being read correctly when reading list boxes or with the cursor. Or, the worst-case scenario. You have to uninstall JAWS 11 after attempting to install Video Intercept, reinstall JAWS 10, install VIdeo Intercept, uninstall JAWS 10 then reinstall JAWS 11. Maybe I'm slamming the NFB a bit, but really, they need a kick in the ass. I'm just happy the Danish blindness organizations are not this corrupt and twisted, and they actually review fairly and take a proper look at what a company offers before suing them. I'll always be negative about the NFB, though I am actually being neutral when talking about the actual lawsuit itself. Say what you want to, it won't change my mind. Even if it is someone from NFB saying it. Some NFB people are great. Some do incredibly good reviews. Some don't. And in whole, I think the organization just sucks for filing unnecessary lawsuits for nothing. Maybe I'm going on a childish tantrum here, perhaps. But once in a while, you need to. A company is trying to provide great accessibility for their products, and they are sued because of one problem. iTunes is actually still useful on the Windows side, people. Quit your darn nitpicking. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368
Re: What do you think?
Thank you for your input, Nic. Much appreciated. :) Sent from my iPod On Apr 15, 2010, at 1:12 AM, Charlie Doremus giantdolp...@gmail.com wrote: I would also like to thank you, Nic, for saving my bacon. Like Anne I was going to take issue with NFB and others who love to gripe for the sake of griping. You saved me from being called tactless twice in the same week. Even though I don't use Jaws the idea of uninstall, install, uninstall, install, no matter what program, gives me the creeps. Sent from the iPad I wish I had On Apr 14, 2010, at 9:30 PM, Anne Robertson a...@anarchie.org.uk wrote: Hello Nic, Thank you for this post. You've just saved me from going on a major rant along the same lines. Cheers, Anne On Apr 15, 2010, at 9:14 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, I seriously doubt that is the case. Apple accessibility has been around for six years now, not three. I doubt NFB had anything to do with it. Apple is going to keep it up because they are committed. The article about the lawsuit doesn't actually mention Apple much. There is actually a very good point of view. Apple poses a threat to the NFB of taking over the technical market. This is why NFB did not sue Skype, but Apple. Agreement or not, I'm pretty sure they listened to users using Outspoken and such, rather than an organization that can't even review the product properly when it is out. Apple has done far more than anyone for accessibility improvements. Apple said they had something in store, and they sure did. I of course realize that it is a pretty serious statement. Of course, I am not particularly a fan of the NFB at all. Saying that, NFB has made some seriously inaccurate statements as well, far outweighing mine. NFB actually has no reason to sue Apple. What would they sue them for, exactly? Because their products are accessible, and they want everyone to pay more than what a Macbook costs for assistive technology? That wouldn't actually surprise me much. It's all about competition. If they think they're about to be kicked out, of course they would consider Apple a threat. Because Apple has done something Microsoft has not. All these things sound really twisted and disgusting to me. Apple can hardly be sued for their effort. Their lawsuit had to do with iTunes on the Windows side. Fair enough, but that is a pretty ridiculous suit if it really is based on accessibility. That is not the case, however, as there are plenty of other useful programs for PCs that are not anywhere near as accessible as iTunes 9. And NFB doesn't care about that. Which, again, leads me to believe that, because NFB is scared of being kicked out, they do everything they can to stop people buying their product. That would make sense. Windows users rely on scripts all the time to use any application. I suggest you look through your jAWS folder to see what I mean. Have you even seen just the download size of a JAWS installation? It's outrageous. People who moan about iTunes not being accessible just because the interface accidentally broke, just need to use scripts like they do for everything else. I'm surprised that wasn't their first complaint. JAWS, or just Windows in general, isn't even that stable. If JAWS crashes, it's stupidly difficult most of the time to reload the product. Even if you manage to do so, you will probably run into the screen not being read correctly when reading list boxes or with the cursor. Or, the worst-case scenario. You have to uninstall JAWS 11 after attempting to install Video Intercept, reinstall JAWS 10, install VIdeo Intercept, uninstall JAWS 10 then reinstall JAWS 11. Maybe I'm slamming the NFB a bit, but really, they need a kick in the ass. I'm just happy the Danish blindness organizations are not this corrupt and twisted, and they actually review fairly and take a proper look at what a company offers before suing them. I'll always be negative about the NFB, though I am actually being neutral when talking about the actual lawsuit itself. Say what you want to, it won't change my mind. Even if it is someone from NFB saying it. Some NFB people are great. Some do incredibly good reviews. Some don't. And in whole, I think the organization just sucks for filing unnecessary lawsuits for nothing. Maybe I'm going on a childish tantrum here, perhaps. But once in a while, you need to. A company is trying to provide great accessibility for their products, and they are sued because of one problem. iTunes is actually still useful on the Windows side, people. Quit your darn nitpicking. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 15, 2010, at 8:08 AM, Rob Lambert wrote: I just got wind, from a friend of mine, that the only reason Apple is accessible to us is because of a lawsuit by the NFB. The
Re: What do you think?
Hi Rob, Where did your friend get this info from? I would be interested to read this. When was the law suit issued? Apple has always had some manner of accessibility in their computers I believe with the Outspoken, Screen Reader formally made by Alva. Only since 2005/6 though has Apple used its own Screen Reader. I don't know, but I suspect that this NFB law suit is a distortion of the facts if anything. From what i understand, when Microsoft announced that they wanted to develop an in-built accessibility for Windows, the NFB pressured them not to continue because they feared that it would be detrimental to venders such as Freedom Scientific. However, this may just be a rumour as I cannot find any info on this. Your friend might be referring to the announcement that in September 2008, NFB reached an agreement with apple on making ITunes more accessible to Blind users which would last for three years. This agreement was only for ITunes though as far as I know. This agreement came shortly after Freedom Scientific's announcement that ITunes would be accessible with JFW. As Josh De Lioncourt notes in his September 2008 article Apple NFB reach agreement on Apple Accessibility, ...NFB made no such fanfare when GW Micro announced its work with Apple on ITunes accessibility with Window-Eyes earlier this year,, when that accessibility came to fruition earlier this month, or when the vast majority of the ITunes application became accessible with Apple's Voice Over Screen Reading technology for Mac OS X early in 2007... Ignoring Apple's (and others') advancements in accessibility still seems to be a favourite NFB tactic. This was shown very clearly in NFB's article in the June 2009 edition of The Braille Monitor called Report on the ease of access of the Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard environment with Voice Over. Mr. Majerus' comments in this article were not entirely accurate and the article suffered from obvious bias and a lack of objectivity. Eventually, NFB issued a retraction, and whilst it was welcome, I think their previous comments damaged their reputation as an Assistive Technology review powerhouse. But sadly, NFB's stance is one taken by the majority of Blindness organisations - especially here in Europe. This is changing in France it would seem and there are people working in the UK too who seek to change venders' outlooks. I don't think Apple are going to walk away from Voice Over. As others have pointed out, they have invested far too much time and money, as well as been the beneficiaries of a major switch by a growing number of Blind and VI users. TC James, Lyn, Nash Twinny On 15 Apr 2010, at 07:08, Rob Lambert wrote: I just got wind, from a friend of mine, that the only reason Apple is accessible to us is because of a lawsuit by the NFB. The term of the agreement was for accessibility improvements for three years. Here's a question. First, what's your side of this ordeal? Second, who thinks Apple will keep up with the accessibility improvements after this three year term is up? I apologize for making smooth waters mirky, I just wanted to know what your take on this was. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Who else has seen the iPad?
I played with it for an hour and a half. I was hooked. I just can't get over the large screen. I also can't decide if I should get the first generation, or wait. Engadget found a group of folk who tore down the iPad, and revealed the inner holdings for a webcam, the same as the iSight on the iMac MacBooks. Sent from my iPod -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: What do you think?
Although i've already posted on this, I just wanted to add that despite the criticism that has been levelled at NFB - and rightly, they have commended Apple's commitment to accesibility on the IPad. TC James, Lyn, Nash Twinny On 15 Apr 2010, at 09:16, Rob wrote: Thank you for your input, Nic. Much appreciated. :) Sent from my iPod On Apr 15, 2010, at 1:12 AM, Charlie Doremus giantdolp...@gmail.com wrote: I would also like to thank you, Nic, for saving my bacon. Like Anne I was going to take issue with NFB and others who love to gripe for the sake of griping. You saved me from being called tactless twice in the same week. Even though I don't use Jaws the idea of uninstall, install, uninstall, install, no matter what program, gives me the creeps. Sent from the iPad I wish I had On Apr 14, 2010, at 9:30 PM, Anne Robertson a...@anarchie.org.uk wrote: Hello Nic, Thank you for this post. You've just saved me from going on a major rant along the same lines. Cheers, Anne On Apr 15, 2010, at 9:14 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, I seriously doubt that is the case. Apple accessibility has been around for six years now, not three. I doubt NFB had anything to do with it. Apple is going to keep it up because they are committed. The article about the lawsuit doesn't actually mention Apple much. There is actually a very good point of view. Apple poses a threat to the NFB of taking over the technical market. This is why NFB did not sue Skype, but Apple. Agreement or not, I'm pretty sure they listened to users using Outspoken and such, rather than an organization that can't even review the product properly when it is out. Apple has done far more than anyone for accessibility improvements. Apple said they had something in store, and they sure did. I of course realize that it is a pretty serious statement. Of course, I am not particularly a fan of the NFB at all. Saying that, NFB has made some seriously inaccurate statements as well, far outweighing mine. NFB actually has no reason to sue Apple. What would they sue them for, exactly? Because their products are accessible, and they want everyone to pay more than what a Macbook costs for assistive technology? That wouldn't actually surprise me much. It's all about competition. If they think they're about to be kicked out, of course they would consider Apple a threat. Because Apple has done something Microsoft has not. All these things sound really twisted and disgusting to me. Apple can hardly be sued for their effort. Their lawsuit had to do with iTunes on the Windows side. Fair enough, but that is a pretty ridiculous suit if it really is based on accessibility. That is not the case, however, as there are plenty of other useful programs for PCs that are not anywhere near as accessible as iTunes 9. And NFB doesn't care about that. Which, again, leads me to believe that, because NFB is scared of being kicked out, they do everything they can to stop people buying their product. That would make sense. Windows users rely on scripts all the time to use any application. I suggest you look through your jAWS folder to see what I mean. Have you even seen just the download size of a JAWS installation? It's outrageous. People who moan about iTunes not being accessible just because the interface accidentally broke, just need to use scripts like they do for everything else. I'm surprised that wasn't their first complaint. JAWS, or just Windows in general, isn't even that stable. If JAWS crashes, it's stupidly difficult most of the time to reload the product. Even if you manage to do so, you will probably run into the screen not being read correctly when reading list boxes or with the cursor. Or, the worst-case scenario. You have to uninstall JAWS 11 after attempting to install Video Intercept, reinstall JAWS 10, install VIdeo Intercept, uninstall JAWS 10 then reinstall JAWS 11. Maybe I'm slamming the NFB a bit, but really, they need a kick in the ass. I'm just happy the Danish blindness organizations are not this corrupt and twisted, and they actually review fairly and take a proper look at what a company offers before suing them. I'll always be negative about the NFB, though I am actually being neutral when talking about the actual lawsuit itself. Say what you want to, it won't change my mind. Even if it is someone from NFB saying it. Some NFB people are great. Some do incredibly good reviews. Some don't. And in whole, I think the organization just sucks for filing unnecessary lawsuits for nothing. Maybe I'm going on a childish tantrum here, perhaps. But once in a while, you need to. A company is trying to provide great accessibility for their products, and they are sued because of one problem. iTunes is actually still useful on the Windows side, people. Quit your darn nitpicking. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger:
Re: What do you think?
I do believe it was September 2008. Again, thanks for clearing things up. Much appreciated. :) Sent from my iPod On Apr 15, 2010, at 1:18 AM, James Nash james.austin1...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi Rob, Where did your friend get this info from? I would be interested to read this. When was the law suit issued? Apple has always had some manner of accessibility in their computers I believe with the Outspoken, Screen Reader formally made by Alva. Only since 2005/6 though has Apple used its own Screen Reader. I don't know, but I suspect that this NFB law suit is a distortion of the facts if anything. From what i understand, when Microsoft announced that they wanted to develop an in-built accessibility for Windows, the NFB pressured them not to continue because they feared that it would be detrimental to venders such as Freedom Scientific. However, this may just be a rumour as I cannot find any info on this. Your friend might be referring to the announcement that in September 2008, NFB reached an agreement with apple on making ITunes more accessible to Blind users which would last for three years. This agreement was only for ITunes though as far as I know. This agreement came shortly after Freedom Scientific's announcement that ITunes would be accessible with JFW. As Josh De Lioncourt notes in his September 2008 article Apple NFB reach agreement on Apple Accessibility, ...NFB made no such fanfare when GW Micro announced its work with Apple on ITunes accessibility with Window-Eyes earlier this year,, when that accessibility came to fruition earlier this month, or when the vast majority of the ITunes application became accessible with Apple's Voice Over Screen Reading technology for Mac OS X early in 2007... Ignoring Apple's (and others') advancements in accessibility still seems to be a favourite NFB tactic. This was shown very clearly in NFB's article in the June 2009 edition of The Braille Monitor called Report on the ease of access of the Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard environment with Voice Over. Mr. Majerus' comments in this article were not entirely accurate and the article suffered from obvious bias and a lack of objectivity. Eventually, NFB issued a retraction, and whilst it was welcome, I think their previous comments damaged their reputation as an Assistive Technology review powerhouse. But sadly, NFB's stance is one taken by the majority of Blindness organisations - especially here in Europe. This is changing in France it would seem and there are people working in the UK too who seek to change venders' outlooks. I don't think Apple are going to walk away from Voice Over. As others have pointed out, they have invested far too much time and money, as well as been the beneficiaries of a major switch by a growing number of Blind and VI users. TC James, Lyn, Nash Twinny On 15 Apr 2010, at 07:08, Rob Lambert wrote: I just got wind, from a friend of mine, that the only reason Apple is accessible to us is because of a lawsuit by the NFB. The term of the agreement was for accessibility improvements for three years. Here's a question. First, what's your side of this ordeal? Second, who thinks Apple will keep up with the accessibility improvements after this three year term is up? I apologize for making smooth waters mirky, I just wanted to know what your take on this was. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: What do you think?
I saw they did and was surprised, and happy, to see that. Sent from my iPod On Apr 15, 2010, at 1:22 AM, James Nash james.austin1...@googlemail.com wrote: Although i've already posted on this, I just wanted to add that despite the criticism that has been levelled at NFB - and rightly, they have commended Apple's commitment to accesibility on the IPad. TC James, Lyn, Nash Twinny On 15 Apr 2010, at 09:16, Rob wrote: Thank you for your input, Nic. Much appreciated. :) Sent from my iPod On Apr 15, 2010, at 1:12 AM, Charlie Doremus giantdolp...@gmail.com wrote: I would also like to thank you, Nic, for saving my bacon. Like Anne I was going to take issue with NFB and others who love to gripe for the sake of griping. You saved me from being called tactless twice in the same week. Even though I don't use Jaws the idea of uninstall, install, uninstall, install, no matter what program, gives me the creeps. Sent from the iPad I wish I had On Apr 14, 2010, at 9:30 PM, Anne Robertson a...@anarchie.org.uk wrote: Hello Nic, Thank you for this post. You've just saved me from going on a major rant along the same lines. Cheers, Anne On Apr 15, 2010, at 9:14 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, I seriously doubt that is the case. Apple accessibility has been around for six years now, not three. I doubt NFB had anything to do with it. Apple is going to keep it up because they are committed. The article about the lawsuit doesn't actually mention Apple much. There is actually a very good point of view. Apple poses a threat to the NFB of taking over the technical market. This is why NFB did not sue Skype, but Apple. Agreement or not, I'm pretty sure they listened to users using Outspoken and such, rather than an organization that can't even review the product properly when it is out. Apple has done far more than anyone for accessibility improvements. Apple said they had something in store, and they sure did. I of course realize that it is a pretty serious statement. Of course, I am not particularly a fan of the NFB at all. Saying that, NFB has made some seriously inaccurate statements as well, far outweighing mine. NFB actually has no reason to sue Apple. What would they sue them for, exactly? Because their products are accessible, and they want everyone to pay more than what a Macbook costs for assistive technology? That wouldn't actually surprise me much. It's all about competition. If they think they're about to be kicked out, of course they would consider Apple a threat. Because Apple has done something Microsoft has not. All these things sound really twisted and disgusting to me. Apple can hardly be sued for their effort. Their lawsuit had to do with iTunes on the Windows side. Fair enough, but that is a pretty ridiculous suit if it really is based on accessibility. That is not the case, however, as there are plenty of other useful programs for PCs that are not anywhere near as accessible as iTunes 9. And NFB doesn't care about that. Which, again, leads me to believe that, because NFB is scared of being kicked out, they do everything they can to stop people buying their product. That would make sense. Windows users rely on scripts all the time to use any application. I suggest you look through your jAWS folder to see what I mean. Have you even seen just the download size of a JAWS installation? It's outrageous. People who moan about iTunes not being accessible just because the interface accidentally broke, just need to use scripts like they do for everything else. I'm surprised that wasn't their first complaint. JAWS, or just Windows in general, isn't even that stable. If JAWS crashes, it's stupidly difficult most of the time to reload the product. Even if you manage to do so, you will probably run into the screen not being read correctly when reading list boxes or with the cursor. Or, the worst-case scenario. You have to uninstall JAWS 11 after attempting to install Video Intercept, reinstall JAWS 10, install VIdeo Intercept, uninstall JAWS 10 then reinstall JAWS 11. Maybe I'm slamming the NFB a bit, but really, they need a kick in the ass. I'm just happy the Danish blindness organizations are not this corrupt and twisted, and they actually review fairly and take a proper look at what a company offers before suing them. I'll always be negative about the NFB, though I am actually being neutral when talking about the actual lawsuit itself. Say what you want to, it won't change my mind. Even if it is someone from NFB saying it. Some NFB people are great. Some do incredibly good reviews. Some don't. And in whole, I think the organization just sucks for filing unnecessary lawsuits for nothing. Maybe I'm going on a childish tantrum here, perhaps. But once in a while, you need to. A company is trying to provide great accessibility for their products, and they are
Re: What do you think?
Hi, *grins* I just hate it when an organization always slams a company for reason than to be threatened. Competition is a pain. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 15, 2010, at 9:30 AM, Anne Robertson wrote: Hello Nic, Thank you for this post. You've just saved me from going on a major rant along the same lines. Cheers, Anne On Apr 15, 2010, at 9:14 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, I seriously doubt that is the case. Apple accessibility has been around for six years now, not three. I doubt NFB had anything to do with it. Apple is going to keep it up because they are committed. The article about the lawsuit doesn't actually mention Apple much. There is actually a very good point of view. Apple poses a threat to the NFB of taking over the technical market. This is why NFB did not sue Skype, but Apple. Agreement or not, I'm pretty sure they listened to users using Outspoken and such, rather than an organization that can't even review the product properly when it is out. Apple has done far more than anyone for accessibility improvements. Apple said they had something in store, and they sure did. I of course realize that it is a pretty serious statement. Of course, I am not particularly a fan of the NFB at all. Saying that, NFB has made some seriously inaccurate statements as well, far outweighing mine. NFB actually has no reason to sue Apple. What would they sue them for, exactly? Because their products are accessible, and they want everyone to pay more than what a Macbook costs for assistive technology? That wouldn't actually surprise me much. It's all about competition. If they think they're about to be kicked out, of course they would consider Apple a threat. Because Apple has done something Microsoft has not. All these things sound really twisted and disgusting to me. Apple can hardly be sued for their effort. Their lawsuit had to do with iTunes on the Windows side. Fair enough, but that is a pretty ridiculous suit if it really is based on accessibility. That is not the case, however, as there are plenty of other useful programs for PCs that are not anywhere near as accessible as iTunes 9. And NFB doesn't care about that. Which, again, leads me to believe that, because NFB is scared of being kicked out, they do everything they can to stop people buying their product. That would make sense. Windows users rely on scripts all the time to use any application. I suggest you look through your jAWS folder to see what I mean. Have you even seen just the download size of a JAWS installation? It's outrageous. People who moan about iTunes not being accessible just because the interface accidentally broke, just need to use scripts like they do for everything else. I'm surprised that wasn't their first complaint. JAWS, or just Windows in general, isn't even that stable. If JAWS crashes, it's stupidly difficult most of the time to reload the product. Even if you manage to do so, you will probably run into the screen not being read correctly when reading list boxes or with the cursor. Or, the worst-case scenario. You have to uninstall JAWS 11 after attempting to install Video Intercept, reinstall JAWS 10, install VIdeo Intercept, uninstall JAWS 10 then reinstall JAWS 11. Maybe I'm slamming the NFB a bit, but really, they need a kick in the ass. I'm just happy the Danish blindness organizations are not this corrupt and twisted, and they actually review fairly and take a proper look at what a company offers before suing them. I'll always be negative about the NFB, though I am actually being neutral when talking about the actual lawsuit itself. Say what you want to, it won't change my mind. Even if it is someone from NFB saying it. Some NFB people are great. Some do incredibly good reviews. Some don't. And in whole, I think the organization just sucks for filing unnecessary lawsuits for nothing. Maybe I'm going on a childish tantrum here, perhaps. But once in a while, you need to. A company is trying to provide great accessibility for their products, and they are sued because of one problem. iTunes is actually still useful on the Windows side, people. Quit your darn nitpicking. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 15, 2010, at 8:08 AM, Rob Lambert wrote: I just got wind, from a friend of mine, that the only reason Apple is accessible to us is because of a lawsuit by the NFB. The term of the agreement was for accessibility improvements for three years. Here's a question. First, what's your side of this ordeal? Second, who thinks Apple will keep up with the accessibility improvements after this three year term is up? I apologize for making smooth waters mirky,
Re: What do you think?
Hi, That's alright. God, I feel better. It's one of those things I can keep going on about and never stop. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 15, 2010, at 9:31 AM, Rob Lambert wrote: I apologize if I opened a can of worms. On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 12:30 AM, Anne Robertson a...@anarchie.org.uk wrote: Hello Nic, Thank you for this post. You've just saved me from going on a major rant along the same lines. Cheers, Anne On Apr 15, 2010, at 9:14 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, I seriously doubt that is the case. Apple accessibility has been around for six years now, not three. I doubt NFB had anything to do with it. Apple is going to keep it up because they are committed. The article about the lawsuit doesn't actually mention Apple much. There is actually a very good point of view. Apple poses a threat to the NFB of taking over the technical market. This is why NFB did not sue Skype, but Apple. Agreement or not, I'm pretty sure they listened to users using Outspoken and such, rather than an organization that can't even review the product properly when it is out. Apple has done far more than anyone for accessibility improvements. Apple said they had something in store, and they sure did. I of course realize that it is a pretty serious statement. Of course, I am not particularly a fan of the NFB at all. Saying that, NFB has made some seriously inaccurate statements as well, far outweighing mine. NFB actually has no reason to sue Apple. What would they sue them for, exactly? Because their products are accessible, and they want everyone to pay more than what a Macbook costs for assistive technology? That wouldn't actually surprise me much. It's all about competition. If they think they're about to be kicked out, of course they would consider Apple a threat. Because Apple has done something Microsoft has not. All these things sound really twisted and disgusting to me. Apple can hardly be sued for their effort. Their lawsuit had to do with iTunes on the Windows side. Fair enough, but that is a pretty ridiculous suit if it really is based on accessibility. That is not the case, however, as there are plenty of other useful programs for PCs that are not anywhere near as accessible as iTunes 9. And NFB doesn't care about that. Which, again, leads me to believe that, because NFB is scared of being kicked out, they do everything they can to stop people buying their product. That would make sense. Windows users rely on scripts all the time to use any application. I suggest you look through your jAWS folder to see what I mean. Have you even seen just the download size of a JAWS installation? It's outrageous. People who moan about iTunes not being accessible just because the interface accidentally broke, just need to use scripts like they do for everything else. I'm surprised that wasn't their first complaint. JAWS, or just Windows in general, isn't even that stable. If JAWS crashes, it's stupidly difficult most of the time to reload the product. Even if you manage to do so, you will probably run into the screen not being read correctly when reading list boxes or with the cursor. Or, the worst-case scenario. You have to uninstall JAWS 11 after attempting to install Video Intercept, reinstall JAWS 10, install VIdeo Intercept, uninstall JAWS 10 then reinstall JAWS 11. Maybe I'm slamming the NFB a bit, but really, they need a kick in the ass. I'm just happy the Danish blindness organizations are not this corrupt and twisted, and they actually review fairly and take a proper look at what a company offers before suing them. I'll always be negative about the NFB, though I am actually being neutral when talking about the actual lawsuit itself. Say what you want to, it won't change my mind. Even if it is someone from NFB saying it. Some NFB people are great. Some do incredibly good reviews. Some don't. And in whole, I think the organization just sucks for filing unnecessary lawsuits for nothing. Maybe I'm going on a childish tantrum here, perhaps. But once in a while, you need to. A company is trying to provide great accessibility for their products, and they are sued because of one problem. iTunes is actually still useful on the Windows side, people. Quit your darn nitpicking. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 15, 2010, at 8:08 AM, Rob Lambert wrote: I just got wind, from a friend of mine, that the only reason Apple is accessible to us is because of a lawsuit by the NFB. The term of the agreement was for accessibility improvements for three years. Here's a question. First, what's your side of
Re: What do you think?
Hi, Haha Charlie, nice signature. Yeah, I thought someone had to. I took the plunge because I'm just fed up with the crap. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 15, 2010, at 10:12 AM, Charlie Doremus wrote: I would also like to thank you, Nic, for saving my bacon. Like Anne I was going to take issue with NFB and others who love to gripe for the sake of griping. You saved me from being called tactless twice in the same week. Even though I don't use Jaws the idea of uninstall, install, uninstall, install, no matter what program, gives me the creeps. Sent from the iPad I wish I had On Apr 14, 2010, at 9:30 PM, Anne Robertson a...@anarchie.org.uk wrote: Hello Nic, Thank you for this post. You've just saved me from going on a major rant along the same lines. Cheers, Anne On Apr 15, 2010, at 9:14 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, I seriously doubt that is the case. Apple accessibility has been around for six years now, not three. I doubt NFB had anything to do with it. Apple is going to keep it up because they are committed. The article about the lawsuit doesn't actually mention Apple much. There is actually a very good point of view. Apple poses a threat to the NFB of taking over the technical market. This is why NFB did not sue Skype, but Apple. Agreement or not, I'm pretty sure they listened to users using Outspoken and such, rather than an organization that can't even review the product properly when it is out. Apple has done far more than anyone for accessibility improvements. Apple said they had something in store, and they sure did. I of course realize that it is a pretty serious statement. Of course, I am not particularly a fan of the NFB at all. Saying that, NFB has made some seriously inaccurate statements as well, far outweighing mine. NFB actually has no reason to sue Apple. What would they sue them for, exactly? Because their products are accessible, and they want everyone to pay more than what a Macbook costs for assistive technology? That wouldn't actually surprise me much. It's all about competition. If they think they're about to be kicked out, of course they would consider Apple a threat. Because Apple has done something Microsoft has not. All these things sound really twisted and disgusting to me. Apple can hardly be sued for their effort. Their lawsuit had to do with iTunes on the Windows side. Fair enough, but that is a pretty ridiculous suit if it really is based on accessibility. That is not the case, however, as there are plenty of other useful programs for PCs that are not anywhere near as accessible as iTunes 9. And NFB doesn't care about that. Which, again, leads me to believe that, because NFB is scared of being kicked out, they do everything they can to stop people buying their product. That would make sense. Windows users rely on scripts all the time to use any application. I suggest you look through your jAWS folder to see what I mean. Have you even seen just the download size of a JAWS installation? It's outrageous. People who moan about iTunes not being accessible just because the interface accidentally broke, just need to use scripts like they do for everything else. I'm surprised that wasn't their first complaint. JAWS, or just Windows in general, isn't even that stable. If JAWS crashes, it's stupidly difficult most of the time to reload the product. Even if you manage to do so, you will probably run into the screen not being read correctly when reading list boxes or with the cursor. Or, the worst-case scenario. You have to uninstall JAWS 11 after attempting to install Video Intercept, reinstall JAWS 10, install VIdeo Intercept, uninstall JAWS 10 then reinstall JAWS 11. Maybe I'm slamming the NFB a bit, but really, they need a kick in the ass. I'm just happy the Danish blindness organizations are not this corrupt and twisted, and they actually review fairly and take a proper look at what a company offers before suing them. I'll always be negative about the NFB, though I am actually being neutral when talking about the actual lawsuit itself. Say what you want to, it won't change my mind. Even if it is someone from NFB saying it. Some NFB people are great. Some do incredibly good reviews. Some don't. And in whole, I think the organization just sucks for filing unnecessary lawsuits for nothing. Maybe I'm going on a childish tantrum here, perhaps. But once in a while, you need to. A company is trying to provide great accessibility for their products, and they are sued because of one problem. iTunes is actually still useful on the Windows side, people. Quit your darn nitpicking. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On
Re: What do you think?
Hi, Yeah, it's easy to find. If you Google something like NFB lawsuit against Apple or whatever, it's there. :) And the GWMicro issue I was gonna get around to. It's kind of funny. At least GW works with Apple instead of trying to give them improper input. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 15, 2010, at 10:18 AM, James Nash wrote: Hi Rob, Where did your friend get this info from? I would be interested to read this. When was the law suit issued? Apple has always had some manner of accessibility in their computers I believe with the Outspoken, Screen Reader formally made by Alva. Only since 2005/6 though has Apple used its own Screen Reader. I don't know, but I suspect that this NFB law suit is a distortion of the facts if anything. From what i understand, when Microsoft announced that they wanted to develop an in-built accessibility for Windows, the NFB pressured them not to continue because they feared that it would be detrimental to venders such as Freedom Scientific. However, this may just be a rumour as I cannot find any info on this. Your friend might be referring to the announcement that in September 2008, NFB reached an agreement with apple on making ITunes more accessible to Blind users which would last for three years. This agreement was only for ITunes though as far as I know. This agreement came shortly after Freedom Scientific's announcement that ITunes would be accessible with JFW. As Josh De Lioncourt notes in his September 2008 article Apple NFB reach agreement on Apple Accessibility, ...NFB made no such fanfare when GW Micro announced its work with Apple on ITunes accessibility with Window-Eyes earlier this year,, when that accessibility came to fruition earlier this month, or when the vast majority of the ITunes application became accessible with Apple's Voice Over Screen Reading technology for Mac OS X early in 2007... Ignoring Apple's (and others') advancements in accessibility still seems to be a favourite NFB tactic. This was shown very clearly in NFB's article in the June 2009 edition of The Braille Monitor called Report on the ease of access of the Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard environment with Voice Over. Mr. Majerus' comments in this article were not entirely accurate and the article suffered from obvious bias and a lack of objectivity. Eventually, NFB issued a retraction, and whilst it was welcome, I think their previous comments damaged their reputation as an Assistive Technology review powerhouse. But sadly, NFB's stance is one taken by the majority of Blindness organisations - especially here in Europe. This is changing in France it would seem and there are people working in the UK too who seek to change venders' outlooks. I don't think Apple are going to walk away from Voice Over. As others have pointed out, they have invested far too much time and money, as well as been the beneficiaries of a major switch by a growing number of Blind and VI users. TC James, Lyn, Nash Twinny On 15 Apr 2010, at 07:08, Rob Lambert wrote: I just got wind, from a friend of mine, that the only reason Apple is accessible to us is because of a lawsuit by the NFB. The term of the agreement was for accessibility improvements for three years. Here's a question. First, what's your side of this ordeal? Second, who thinks Apple will keep up with the accessibility improvements after this three year term is up? I apologize for making smooth waters mirky, I just wanted to know what your take on this was. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
RE: Infovox voices licensing/copy protection?
Hi Anne. Thanks for your response. I feel much better about purchasing the voices now. Bryan -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 5:39 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Infovox voices licensing/copy protection? Hello Bryan, On Apr 12, 2010, at 6:24 PM, Bryan Smart wrote: I've been using Infovox iVox voices for around 4 years now. Do they give you a code that matches up with a single computer, so you can re-install on that machine as many times as needed? The code is tied to your name and e-mail address, so you can install them on all your computers. Do you need to check out and check in machine keys/authorizations/activations on their web site somehow? No. You put your license key in on your computer, then do a Restart and everything's fine. However, when you change computers, you have to reinstall the voices, they don't cary across like so many other applications. Do they give you a code that allows multiple installs on any Macs that you have? Yes, see above. Do they mail you a dongle? No. Any info would be appreciated. If I purchase them, and then discover that the protection doesn't suit, I'll probably not be able to get a refund, so I'd rather know in advance. I don't know about that. The quality is excellent, and as someone who needs another language, Infovox iVox is the only show in town. I can't talk about the quality of the American voices, but the British, French and Québecoise voices are very good. For an extra 10 Euros or however many dollars, you can also get GhostReader which is a handy little app. It's basically a reader that can also create audio files. Cheers, Anne -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: What do you think?
Hi, Regardless, I still think they're doing that to avoid the flaming they got for their Mac article. It's amusing how they were suddenly in love with the iPhone. I think that guy did a fair article, though, and it was very good. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 15, 2010, at 10:22 AM, James Nash wrote: Although i've already posted on this, I just wanted to add that despite the criticism that has been levelled at NFB - and rightly, they have commended Apple's commitment to accesibility on the IPad. TC James, Lyn, Nash Twinny On 15 Apr 2010, at 09:16, Rob wrote: Thank you for your input, Nic. Much appreciated. :) Sent from my iPod On Apr 15, 2010, at 1:12 AM, Charlie Doremus giantdolp...@gmail.com wrote: I would also like to thank you, Nic, for saving my bacon. Like Anne I was going to take issue with NFB and others who love to gripe for the sake of griping. You saved me from being called tactless twice in the same week. Even though I don't use Jaws the idea of uninstall, install, uninstall, install, no matter what program, gives me the creeps. Sent from the iPad I wish I had On Apr 14, 2010, at 9:30 PM, Anne Robertson a...@anarchie.org.uk wrote: Hello Nic, Thank you for this post. You've just saved me from going on a major rant along the same lines. Cheers, Anne On Apr 15, 2010, at 9:14 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, I seriously doubt that is the case. Apple accessibility has been around for six years now, not three. I doubt NFB had anything to do with it. Apple is going to keep it up because they are committed. The article about the lawsuit doesn't actually mention Apple much. There is actually a very good point of view. Apple poses a threat to the NFB of taking over the technical market. This is why NFB did not sue Skype, but Apple. Agreement or not, I'm pretty sure they listened to users using Outspoken and such, rather than an organization that can't even review the product properly when it is out. Apple has done far more than anyone for accessibility improvements. Apple said they had something in store, and they sure did. I of course realize that it is a pretty serious statement. Of course, I am not particularly a fan of the NFB at all. Saying that, NFB has made some seriously inaccurate statements as well, far outweighing mine. NFB actually has no reason to sue Apple. What would they sue them for, exactly? Because their products are accessible, and they want everyone to pay more than what a Macbook costs for assistive technology? That wouldn't actually surprise me much. It's all about competition. If they think they're about to be kicked out, of course they would consider Apple a threat. Because Apple has done something Microsoft has not. All these things sound really twisted and disgusting to me. Apple can hardly be sued for their effort. Their lawsuit had to do with iTunes on the Windows side. Fair enough, but that is a pretty ridiculous suit if it really is based on accessibility. That is not the case, however, as there are plenty of other useful programs for PCs that are not anywhere near as accessible as iTunes 9. And NFB doesn't care about that. Which, again, leads me to believe that, because NFB is scared of being kicked out, they do everything they can to stop people buying their product. That would make sense. Windows users rely on scripts all the time to use any application. I suggest you look through your jAWS folder to see what I mean. Have you even seen just the download size of a JAWS installation? It's outrageous. People who moan about iTunes not being accessible just because the interface accidentally broke, just need to use scripts like they do for everything else. I'm surprised that wasn't their first complaint. JAWS, or just Windows in general, isn't even that stable. If JAWS crashes, it's stupidly difficult most of the time to reload the product. Even if you manage to do so, you will probably run into the screen not being read correctly when reading list boxes or with the cursor. Or, the worst-case scenario. You have to uninstall JAWS 11 after attempting to install Video Intercept, reinstall JAWS 10, install VIdeo Intercept, uninstall JAWS 10 then reinstall JAWS 11. Maybe I'm slamming the NFB a bit, but really, they need a kick in the ass. I'm just happy the Danish blindness organizations are not this corrupt and twisted, and they actually review fairly and take a proper look at what a company offers before suing them. I'll always be negative about the NFB, though I am actually being neutral when talking about the actual lawsuit itself. Say what you want to, it won't change my mind. Even if it is someone from NFB saying it. Some NFB people are great. Some do incredibly good reviews. Some don't. And in
Re: What do you think?
Is laughing We got early morning coffee drinkers I see, this list is really jumpin - Original Message - From: Rob rmlambert1...@gmail.com To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 4:27 AM Subject: Re: What do you think? I saw they did and was surprised, and happy, to see that. Sent from my iPod On Apr 15, 2010, at 1:22 AM, James Nash james.austin1...@googlemail.com wrote: Although i've already posted on this, I just wanted to add that despite the criticism that has been levelled at NFB - and rightly, they have commended Apple's commitment to accesibility on the IPad. TC James, Lyn, Nash Twinny On 15 Apr 2010, at 09:16, Rob wrote: Thank you for your input, Nic. Much appreciated. :) Sent from my iPod On Apr 15, 2010, at 1:12 AM, Charlie Doremus giantdolp...@gmail.com wrote: I would also like to thank you, Nic, for saving my bacon. Like Anne I was going to take issue with NFB and others who love to gripe for the sake of griping. You saved me from being called tactless twice in the same week. Even though I don't use Jaws the idea of uninstall, install, uninstall, install, no matter what program, gives me the creeps. Sent from the iPad I wish I had On Apr 14, 2010, at 9:30 PM, Anne Robertson a...@anarchie.org.uk wrote: Hello Nic, Thank you for this post. You've just saved me from going on a major rant along the same lines. Cheers, Anne On Apr 15, 2010, at 9:14 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, I seriously doubt that is the case. Apple accessibility has been around for six years now, not three. I doubt NFB had anything to do with it. Apple is going to keep it up because they are committed. The article about the lawsuit doesn't actually mention Apple much. There is actually a very good point of view. Apple poses a threat to the NFB of taking over the technical market. This is why NFB did not sue Skype, but Apple. Agreement or not, I'm pretty sure they listened to users using Outspoken and such, rather than an organization that can't even review the product properly when it is out. Apple has done far more than anyone for accessibility improvements. Apple said they had something in store, and they sure did. I of course realize that it is a pretty serious statement. Of course, I am not particularly a fan of the NFB at all. Saying that, NFB has made some seriously inaccurate statements as well, far outweighing mine. NFB actually has no reason to sue Apple. What would they sue them for, exactly? Because their products are accessible, and they want everyone to pay more than what a Macbook costs for assistive technology? That wouldn't actually surprise me much. It's all about competition. If they think they're about to be kicked out, of course they would consider Apple a threat. Because Apple has done something Microsoft has not. All these things sound really twisted and disgusting to me. Apple can hardly be sued for their effort. Their lawsuit had to do with iTunes on the Windows side. Fair enough, but that is a pretty ridiculous suit if it really is based on accessibility. That is not the case, however, as there are plenty of other useful programs for PCs that are not anywhere near as accessible as iTunes 9. And NFB doesn't care about that. Which, again, leads me to believe that, because NFB is scared of being kicked out, they do everything they can to stop people buying their product. That would make sense. Windows users rely on scripts all the time to use any application. I suggest you look through your jAWS folder to see what I mean. Have you even seen just the download size of a JAWS installation? It's outrageous. People who moan about iTunes not being accessible just because the interface accidentally broke, just need to use scripts like they do for everything else. I'm surprised that wasn't their first complaint. JAWS, or just Windows in general, isn't even that stable. If JAWS crashes, it's stupidly difficult most of the time to reload the product. Even if you manage to do so, you will probably run into the screen not being read correctly when reading list boxes or with the cursor. Or, the worst-case scenario. You have to uninstall JAWS 11 after attempting to install Video Intercept, reinstall JAWS 10, install VIdeo Intercept, uninstall JAWS 10 then reinstall JAWS 11. Maybe I'm slamming the NFB a bit, but really, they need a kick in the ass. I'm just happy the Danish blindness organizations are not this corrupt and twisted, and they actually review fairly and take a proper look at what a company offers before suing them. I'll always be negative about the NFB, though I am actually being neutral when talking about the actual lawsuit itself. Say what you want to, it won't change my mind. Even if it is someone from NFB saying it. Some NFB people are great. Some do incredibly good reviews. Some don't. And in whole, I think the
Re: What do you think?
Hi, *grins* Sure do. I've got a coffee thermos next to me in my classroom. I'm supposed to be diligently taking notes, but really, I'm writing blog posts, tweeting, on seven messaging accounts, and browsing the web while taking notes. That said, James has a point here. NFB did retract their statement, although their statement still was really bias. It said they wanted to open it up for dialog, yet they continue to trash Apple in the same post. It just saddens me why this has to happen. I love what Apple has done, and I know they'll keep it up. I've never sent so many text messages from my iPhone, never enjoyed a computer this much as a Mac, and had this much fun. That's because I don't have to worry about any third-party installed screen reading access software crashing, not starting up, giving me script errors, and so-on. I've really found the accessibility team, regardless of my issue, extremely responsive. The longest time I have waited for a reply to either a suggestion, comment or issue is a full day. Not longer than that. They've replied to all my e-mails except one, and I have sent quite a few of them. But despite that, the feature I asked for was implemented. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 15, 2010, at 10:38 AM, Cody wrote: Is laughing We got early morning coffee drinkers I see, this list is really jumpin - Original Message - From: Rob rmlambert1...@gmail.com To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 4:27 AM Subject: Re: What do you think? I saw they did and was surprised, and happy, to see that. Sent from my iPod On Apr 15, 2010, at 1:22 AM, James Nash james.austin1...@googlemail.com wrote: Although i've already posted on this, I just wanted to add that despite the criticism that has been levelled at NFB - and rightly, they have commended Apple's commitment to accesibility on the IPad. TC James, Lyn, Nash Twinny On 15 Apr 2010, at 09:16, Rob wrote: Thank you for your input, Nic. Much appreciated. :) Sent from my iPod On Apr 15, 2010, at 1:12 AM, Charlie Doremus giantdolp...@gmail.com wrote: I would also like to thank you, Nic, for saving my bacon. Like Anne I was going to take issue with NFB and others who love to gripe for the sake of griping. You saved me from being called tactless twice in the same week. Even though I don't use Jaws the idea of uninstall, install, uninstall, install, no matter what program, gives me the creeps. Sent from the iPad I wish I had On Apr 14, 2010, at 9:30 PM, Anne Robertson a...@anarchie.org.uk wrote: Hello Nic, Thank you for this post. You've just saved me from going on a major rant along the same lines. Cheers, Anne On Apr 15, 2010, at 9:14 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, I seriously doubt that is the case. Apple accessibility has been around for six years now, not three. I doubt NFB had anything to do with it. Apple is going to keep it up because they are committed. The article about the lawsuit doesn't actually mention Apple much. There is actually a very good point of view. Apple poses a threat to the NFB of taking over the technical market. This is why NFB did not sue Skype, but Apple. Agreement or not, I'm pretty sure they listened to users using Outspoken and such, rather than an organization that can't even review the product properly when it is out. Apple has done far more than anyone for accessibility improvements. Apple said they had something in store, and they sure did. I of course realize that it is a pretty serious statement. Of course, I am not particularly a fan of the NFB at all. Saying that, NFB has made some seriously inaccurate statements as well, far outweighing mine. NFB actually has no reason to sue Apple. What would they sue them for, exactly? Because their products are accessible, and they want everyone to pay more than what a Macbook costs for assistive technology? That wouldn't actually surprise me much. It's all about competition. If they think they're about to be kicked out, of course they would consider Apple a threat. Because Apple has done something Microsoft has not. All these things sound really twisted and disgusting to me. Apple can hardly be sued for their effort. Their lawsuit had to do with iTunes on the Windows side. Fair enough, but that is a pretty ridiculous suit if it really is based on accessibility. That is not the case, however, as there are plenty of other useful programs for PCs that are not anywhere near as accessible as iTunes 9. And NFB doesn't care about that. Which, again, leads me to believe that, because NFB is scared of being kicked out, they do everything they can to stop people buying their product. That would make sense. Windows users rely on scripts all the time to
Re: What do you think?
Speaking of support I wonder where I can send my bug fixes requests for iPhone os 4.0 - Original Message - From: Nicolai Svendsen chojiro1...@gmail.com To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 4:47 AM Subject: Re: What do you think? Hi, *grins* Sure do. I've got a coffee thermos next to me in my classroom. I'm supposed to be diligently taking notes, but really, I'm writing blog posts, tweeting, on seven messaging accounts, and browsing the web while taking notes. That said, James has a point here. NFB did retract their statement, although their statement still was really bias. It said they wanted to open it up for dialog, yet they continue to trash Apple in the same post. It just saddens me why this has to happen. I love what Apple has done, and I know they'll keep it up. I've never sent so many text messages from my iPhone, never enjoyed a computer this much as a Mac, and had this much fun. That's because I don't have to worry about any third-party installed screen reading access software crashing, not starting up, giving me script errors, and so-on. I've really found the accessibility team, regardless of my issue, extremely responsive. The longest time I have waited for a reply to either a suggestion, comment or issue is a full day. Not longer than that. They've replied to all my e-mails except one, and I have sent quite a few of them. But despite that, the feature I asked for was implemented. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 15, 2010, at 10:38 AM, Cody wrote: Is laughing We got early morning coffee drinkers I see, this list is really jumpin - Original Message - From: Rob rmlambert1...@gmail.com To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 4:27 AM Subject: Re: What do you think? I saw they did and was surprised, and happy, to see that. Sent from my iPod On Apr 15, 2010, at 1:22 AM, James Nash james.austin1...@googlemail.com wrote: Although i've already posted on this, I just wanted to add that despite the criticism that has been levelled at NFB - and rightly, they have commended Apple's commitment to accesibility on the IPad. TC James, Lyn, Nash Twinny On 15 Apr 2010, at 09:16, Rob wrote: Thank you for your input, Nic. Much appreciated. :) Sent from my iPod On Apr 15, 2010, at 1:12 AM, Charlie Doremus giantdolp...@gmail.com wrote: I would also like to thank you, Nic, for saving my bacon. Like Anne I was going to take issue with NFB and others who love to gripe for the sake of griping. You saved me from being called tactless twice in the same week. Even though I don't use Jaws the idea of uninstall, install, uninstall, install, no matter what program, gives me the creeps. Sent from the iPad I wish I had On Apr 14, 2010, at 9:30 PM, Anne Robertson a...@anarchie.org.uk wrote: Hello Nic, Thank you for this post. You've just saved me from going on a major rant along the same lines. Cheers, Anne On Apr 15, 2010, at 9:14 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, I seriously doubt that is the case. Apple accessibility has been around for six years now, not three. I doubt NFB had anything to do with it. Apple is going to keep it up because they are committed. The article about the lawsuit doesn't actually mention Apple much. There is actually a very good point of view. Apple poses a threat to the NFB of taking over the technical market. This is why NFB did not sue Skype, but Apple. Agreement or not, I'm pretty sure they listened to users using Outspoken and such, rather than an organization that can't even review the product properly when it is out. Apple has done far more than anyone for accessibility improvements. Apple said they had something in store, and they sure did. I of course realize that it is a pretty serious statement. Of course, I am not particularly a fan of the NFB at all. Saying that, NFB has made some seriously inaccurate statements as well, far outweighing mine. NFB actually has no reason to sue Apple. What would they sue them for, exactly? Because their products are accessible, and they want everyone to pay more than what a Macbook costs for assistive technology? That wouldn't actually surprise me much. It's all about competition. If they think they're about to be kicked out, of course they would consider Apple a threat. Because Apple has done something Microsoft has not. All these things sound really twisted and disgusting to me. Apple can hardly be sued for their effort. Their lawsuit had to do with iTunes on the Windows side. Fair enough, but that is a pretty ridiculous suit if it really is based on accessibility. That is not the case, however, as there are plenty of other useful programs for PCs that are not anywhere near as accessible as iTunes 9. And NFB doesn't care about that. Which, again,
Re: Who else has seen the iPad?
Man, I am so jealous. Canada won't get the IPad until the end of next month, cry cry. May and Wyn On 2010-04-15, at 1:21 AM, Rob wrote: I played with it for an hour and a half. I was hooked. I just can't get over the large screen. I also can't decide if I should get the first generation, or wait. Engadget found a group of folk who tore down the iPad, and revealed the inner holdings for a webcam, the same as the iSight on the iMac MacBooks. Sent from my iPod -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: What do you think?
I also want to thank Nick for his lengthy response, you said almost everything I would have said. I think the confusion lies with the ITunes lawsuit. Apple did have a few years without accessibility I believe. Outspoken was discontinued and voice over was brought in and I believe this was due to a state in the US wanting macs for all of its schools during the early 2000s. However, there was no solution for visually impaired users and their was a federal legal issue with the disability discrimination act. Apple said that although they didn't have anything at that present time, they assured the government that something was coming. And indeed they did. Anyone who thinks Apple will just stop progressing with voice over really needs their head testing. If it was a pure ploy to quiet the legislation from suing the company for breaching the DDA, [or whatever it is called in the US], then they clearly have not followed anything Apple has done since Tiger. Not only has it kept developing voice over for the mac, but it has introduced a fully functional built in screen reader on all of its touch devices when it has been technically possible. The IPod nanos, the IPhone, the touch, shuffle and now the IPad all have voice over. The fact they not only updated their operating system last august for mac and implemented new features with the rotor and such, they continually are developing the IPhone OS too. Why would a company plough not only financial revenue but technical expertise to just forget it later on. It doesn't make sense. Every day I hear another person switching to the mac and I honestly feel relief for that person. the days of turning my computer on and it just working makes life easier. As I said in another post on this list, while writing my CV, someone who was helping me from an agency pointed out that I should be adequate in MS office. How? When MS isn't adequate for me as a user? I get a lot of businesses supposedly use MS but gradually the market will shift and with more third party developers seeing the potential of the mac platform, it will be definitely a two horse race. I think its tragic we live in a world where visually impaired people are expected to use windows, and expected to use it solely. Granted, some of you need windows for your jobs and your school stuff, but at this moment I am not forced to retreat to an operating system that crashed halfway through writing essays or researching. Here in the UK, the university system is slowly seeing the advantage for students, if they choose to to use a mac. And really, in the vast technology era we live in, it should be about what makes us as individuals more productive. And Apple's continual production of voice over and giving us more features, fixing bugs when we request it, shows how dedicated they are to all of their users, not just the mainstream market. And I just did a very long post lol On 15 Apr 2010, at 09:47, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, *grins* Sure do. I've got a coffee thermos next to me in my classroom. I'm supposed to be diligently taking notes, but really, I'm writing blog posts, tweeting, on seven messaging accounts, and browsing the web while taking notes. That said, James has a point here. NFB did retract their statement, although their statement still was really bias. It said they wanted to open it up for dialog, yet they continue to trash Apple in the same post. It just saddens me why this has to happen. I love what Apple has done, and I know they'll keep it up. I've never sent so many text messages from my iPhone, never enjoyed a computer this much as a Mac, and had this much fun. That's because I don't have to worry about any third-party installed screen reading access software crashing, not starting up, giving me script errors, and so-on. I've really found the accessibility team, regardless of my issue, extremely responsive. The longest time I have waited for a reply to either a suggestion, comment or issue is a full day. Not longer than that. They've replied to all my e-mails except one, and I have sent quite a few of them. But despite that, the feature I asked for was implemented. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 15, 2010, at 10:38 AM, Cody wrote: Is laughing We got early morning coffee drinkers I see, this list is really jumpin - Original Message - From: Rob rmlambert1...@gmail.com To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 4:27 AM Subject: Re: What do you think? I saw they did and was surprised, and happy, to see that. Sent from my iPod On Apr 15, 2010, at 1:22 AM, James Nash james.austin1...@googlemail.com wrote: Although i've already posted on this, I just wanted to add that despite the criticism that has been levelled at NFB - and rightly, they have
Re: Who else has seen the iPad?
Hi, You are not the only one. Someone just send us iPads already. *smiles* Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 15, 2010, at 11:30 AM, May McDonald wrote: Man, I am so jealous. Canada won't get the IPad until the end of next month, cry cry. May and Wyn On 2010-04-15, at 1:21 AM, Rob wrote: I played with it for an hour and a half. I was hooked. I just can't get over the large screen. I also can't decide if I should get the first generation, or wait. Engadget found a group of folk who tore down the iPad, and revealed the inner holdings for a webcam, the same as the iSight on the iMac MacBooks. Sent from my iPod -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Who else has seen the iPad?
I know, I know. in the same situation across the pond. I just can't wait to touch one and bring one home to live with the mac, the nano and the IPhone. :) what a happy little Apple family :) On 15 Apr 2010, at 10:30, May McDonald wrote: Man, I am so jealous. Canada won't get the IPad until the end of next month, cry cry. May and Wyn On 2010-04-15, at 1:21 AM, Rob wrote: I played with it for an hour and a half. I was hooked. I just can't get over the large screen. I also can't decide if I should get the first generation, or wait. Engadget found a group of folk who tore down the iPad, and revealed the inner holdings for a webcam, the same as the iSight on the iMac MacBooks. Sent from my iPod -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Who else has seen the iPad?
You'd think that, since Canada the U.S. are so close, that Apple would treat them the same, regarding shipping schedules. It's possible you guys will get the WiFi 3G models at the same time though, because we already have the WiFi model in the states. We'll be getting the 3G model at the end of the month. On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:30 AM, May McDonald mcdonald@gmail.comwrote: Man, I am so jealous. Canada won't get the IPad until the end of next month, cry cry. May and Wyn On 2010-04-15, at 1:21 AM, Rob wrote: I played with it for an hour and a half. I was hooked. I just can't get over the large screen. I also can't decide if I should get the first generation, or wait. Engadget found a group of folk who tore down the iPad, and revealed the inner holdings for a webcam, the same as the iSight on the iMac MacBooks. Sent from my iPod -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commacvisionaries%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commacvisionaries%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Who else has seen the iPad?
Not sure about Canada, but it's looking like the UK will get both 3G and wifi at the same times. Three of our major networks stated yesterday that they will be offering dedicated plans for the IPads at the end of May. *rubs hands together* :) It was the only good news I got yesterday lol :( On 15 Apr 2010, at 10:33, Rob Lambert wrote: You'd think that, since Canada the U.S. are so close, that Apple would treat them the same, regarding shipping schedules. It's possible you guys will get the WiFi 3G models at the same time though, because we already have the WiFi model in the states. We'll be getting the 3G model at the end of the month. On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:30 AM, May McDonald mcdonald@gmail.com wrote: Man, I am so jealous. Canada won't get the IPad until the end of next month, cry cry. May and Wyn On 2010-04-15, at 1:21 AM, Rob wrote: I played with it for an hour and a half. I was hooked. I just can't get over the large screen. I also can't decide if I should get the first generation, or wait. Engadget found a group of folk who tore down the iPad, and revealed the inner holdings for a webcam, the same as the iSight on the iMac MacBooks. Sent from my iPod -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
RE: new member
For other A T you can run boot camp or virtual windows to use them. Sign, Joe Plummer ( JP ) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 5:46 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Hello Denise, I hope the word processor you are thinking of getting is iWork09, since MS Office for Mac is not accessible. As for Word documents of almost any level, TextEdit or Pages will read these just fine. I can't answer any of your other questions having never been a Windows user. Cheers, Anne On Apr 14, 2010, at 11:27 PM, denise avant wrote: hello, after having my iphone for six months now, i have really enjoyed my experience with apple. To that end, i am looking into purchasing a mac book pro. In fact, i called for some specs today and have set one with 4 gig of ram, and a 320 hard drive, 13 in screen. again this is just a possiblity. i will also have the word processor included. i will also have the one-to-one training as there is a nearby apple store in chicago. i am curious as to what those of you who own macs have done about your other windows based adatpive equipment, duxbury, openbook or k1000 and hw stream companion? how easy is it to move ms word 2003 2007 docs over to apple macs, still keep the formatting or move them back again? I thought of just keeping my netbook or sony machine for these purposes. there was also the idea given to me that i could have windows on one side and the mac on the other side. any thoughts on these questions would be apprciated. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: new member
Who here thinks we'll see the Mac replacing PCs in AT training offices? On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:43 AM, Joe Plummer joeplum...@tds.net wrote: For other A T you can run boot camp or virtual windows to use them. Sign, Joe Plummer ( JP ) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 5:46 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Hello Denise, I hope the word processor you are thinking of getting is iWork09, since MS Office for Mac is not accessible. As for Word documents of almost any level, TextEdit or Pages will read these just fine. I can't answer any of your other questions having never been a Windows user. Cheers, Anne On Apr 14, 2010, at 11:27 PM, denise avant wrote: hello, after having my iphone for six months now, i have really enjoyed my experience with apple. To that end, i am looking into purchasing a mac book pro. In fact, i called for some specs today and have set one with 4 gig of ram, and a 320 hard drive, 13 in screen. again this is just a possiblity. i will also have the word processor included. i will also have the one-to-one training as there is a nearby apple store in chicago. i am curious as to what those of you who own macs have done about your other windows based adatpive equipment, duxbury, openbook or k1000 and hw stream companion? how easy is it to move ms word 2003 2007 docs over to apple macs, still keep the formatting or move them back again? I thought of just keeping my netbook or sony machine for these purposes. there was also the idea given to me that i could have windows on one side and the mac on the other side. any thoughts on these questions would be apprciated. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commacvisionaries%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commacvisionaries%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commacvisionaries%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
RE: new member
I'd very much doubt it Rob. I don't know what it's like in other countries, but here in Ireland most of the trainers are actually sighted. Macs haven't penetrated the mainstream userbase to the same extent as windows-based Pcs. Consequently the level of knowledge among the trainers on the actual OS itself (not including VO) is virtually non existent. The fact that the trainers would have to go and learn an entirely new platform, and then educate themselves in a new style of assistive technology makes it pretty certain that the majority of blind users will be stuck with Jaws and other badly implemented screenreaders for the foreseeable future. It's sad, but in my opinion true that this is the case. Dónal _ From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Lambert Sent: 15 April 2010 10:47 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Who here thinks we'll see the Mac replacing PCs in AT training offices? On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:43 AM, Joe Plummer joeplum...@tds.net wrote: For other A T you can run boot camp or virtual windows to use them. Sign, Joe Plummer ( JP ) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 5:46 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Hello Denise, I hope the word processor you are thinking of getting is iWork09, since MS Office for Mac is not accessible. As for Word documents of almost any level, TextEdit or Pages will read these just fine. I can't answer any of your other questions having never been a Windows user. Cheers, Anne On Apr 14, 2010, at 11:27 PM, denise avant wrote: hello, after having my iphone for six months now, i have really enjoyed my experience with apple. To that end, i am looking into purchasing a mac book pro. In fact, i called for some specs today and have set one with 4 gig of ram, and a 320 hard drive, 13 in screen. again this is just a possiblity. i will also have the word processor included. i will also have the one-to-one training as there is a nearby apple store in chicago. i am curious as to what those of you who own macs have done about your other windows based adatpive equipment, duxbury, openbook or k1000 and hw stream companion? how easy is it to move ms word 2003 2007 docs over to apple macs, still keep the formatting or move them back again? I thought of just keeping my netbook or sony machine for these purposes. there was also the idea given to me that i could have windows on one side and the mac on the other side. any thoughts on these questions would be apprciated. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:macvisionaries%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:macvisionaries%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:macvisionaries%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: new member
I think it's happening slowly already. It is just a more cost effective solution than windows computers with the price of a screenreader thrown in. The transition will take a while because contracts need to be fulfilled and such other things. Then we will see thee Mac more in schools, government agencies and the like. On Apr 15, 2010, at 5:46 AM, Rob Lambert wrote: Who here thinks we'll see the Mac replacing PCs in AT training offices? On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:43 AM, Joe Plummer joeplum...@tds.net wrote: For other A T you can run boot camp or virtual windows to use them. Sign, Joe Plummer ( JP ) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 5:46 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Hello Denise, I hope the word processor you are thinking of getting is iWork09, since MS Office for Mac is not accessible. As for Word documents of almost any level, TextEdit or Pages will read these just fine. I can't answer any of your other questions having never been a Windows user. Cheers, Anne On Apr 14, 2010, at 11:27 PM, denise avant wrote: hello, after having my iphone for six months now, i have really enjoyed my experience with apple. To that end, i am looking into purchasing a mac book pro. In fact, i called for some specs today and have set one with 4 gig of ram, and a 320 hard drive, 13 in screen. again this is just a possiblity. i will also have the word processor included. i will also have the one-to-one training as there is a nearby apple store in chicago. i am curious as to what those of you who own macs have done about your other windows based adatpive equipment, duxbury, openbook or k1000 and hw stream companion? how easy is it to move ms word 2003 2007 docs over to apple macs, still keep the formatting or move them back again? I thought of just keeping my netbook or sony machine for these purposes. there was also the idea given to me that i could have windows on one side and the mac on the other side. any thoughts on these questions would be apprciated. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: new member
I think the same is true here in the states, though it seems to be changing, I think. On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:55 AM, Ricardo Walker rwalker...@gmail.comwrote: I think it's happening slowly already. It is just a more cost effective solution than windows computers with the price of a screenreader thrown in. The transition will take a while because contracts need to be fulfilled and such other things. Then we will see thee Mac more in schools, government agencies and the like. On Apr 15, 2010, at 5:46 AM, Rob Lambert wrote: Who here thinks we'll see the Mac replacing PCs in AT training offices? On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:43 AM, Joe Plummer joeplum...@tds.net wrote: For other A T you can run boot camp or virtual windows to use them. Sign, Joe Plummer ( JP ) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 5:46 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Hello Denise, I hope the word processor you are thinking of getting is iWork09, since MS Office for Mac is not accessible. As for Word documents of almost any level, TextEdit or Pages will read these just fine. I can't answer any of your other questions having never been a Windows user. Cheers, Anne On Apr 14, 2010, at 11:27 PM, denise avant wrote: hello, after having my iphone for six months now, i have really enjoyed my experience with apple. To that end, i am looking into purchasing a mac book pro. In fact, i called for some specs today and have set one with 4 gig of ram, and a 320 hard drive, 13 in screen. again this is just a possiblity. i will also have the word processor included. i will also have the one-to-one training as there is a nearby apple store in chicago. i am curious as to what those of you who own macs have done about your other windows based adatpive equipment, duxbury, openbook or k1000 and hw stream companion? how easy is it to move ms word 2003 2007 docs over to apple macs, still keep the formatting or move them back again? I thought of just keeping my netbook or sony machine for these purposes. there was also the idea given to me that i could have windows on one side and the mac on the other side. any thoughts on these questions would be apprciated. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commacvisionaries%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commacvisionaries%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commacvisionaries%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commacvisionaries%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: new member
Hi Donald, I disagree. I think economics will come in to play in the next 3 to 5 years. The cost of getting a Mac will justify it being looked into as a viable option for agencies. There are more blind Mac users every day. I live in New York City and got my first experience to a Mac at a course in intro to the Mac and voiceover as well as garageband I took in the summer of 2008 at the Lighthouse. I assume such courses will catch on in the future. On Apr 15, 2010, at 5:54 AM, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote: I'd very much doubt it Rob. I don't know what it's like in other countries, but here in Ireland most of the trainers are actually sighted. Macs haven't penetrated the mainstream userbase to the same extent as windows-based Pcs. Consequently the level of knowledge among the trainers on the actual OS itself (not including VO) is virtually non existent. The fact that the trainers would have to go and learn an entirely new platform, and then educate themselves in a new style of assistive technology makes it pretty certain that the majority of blind users will be stuck with Jaws and other badly implemented screenreaders for the foreseeable future. It's sad, but in my opinion true that this is the case. Dónal From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Lambert Sent: 15 April 2010 10:47 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Who here thinks we'll see the Mac replacing PCs in AT training offices? On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:43 AM, Joe Plummer joeplum...@tds.net wrote: For other A T you can run boot camp or virtual windows to use them. Sign, Joe Plummer ( JP ) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 5:46 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Hello Denise, I hope the word processor you are thinking of getting is iWork09, since MS Office for Mac is not accessible. As for Word documents of almost any level, TextEdit or Pages will read these just fine. I can't answer any of your other questions having never been a Windows user. Cheers, Anne On Apr 14, 2010, at 11:27 PM, denise avant wrote: hello, after having my iphone for six months now, i have really enjoyed my experience with apple. To that end, i am looking into purchasing a mac book pro. In fact, i called for some specs today and have set one with 4 gig of ram, and a 320 hard drive, 13 in screen. again this is just a possiblity. i will also have the word processor included. i will also have the one-to-one training as there is a nearby apple store in chicago. i am curious as to what those of you who own macs have done about your other windows based adatpive equipment, duxbury, openbook or k1000 and hw stream companion? how easy is it to move ms word 2003 2007 docs over to apple macs, still keep the formatting or move them back again? I thought of just keeping my netbook or sony machine for these purposes. there was also the idea given to me that i could have windows on one side and the mac on the other side. any thoughts on these questions would be apprciated. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send
RE: new member
Ricardo I am delighted to hear that's the case, however here I can't see it happening for quite some time. Only the techie people are using iPhones, and even then it's happening by word-of-mouth. Blind people using the Mac is almost unheard of over here. Bring on the revolution! smile _ From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ricardo Walker Sent: 15 April 2010 11:02 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Hi Donald, I disagree. I think economics will come in to play in the next 3 to 5 years. The cost of getting a Mac will justify it being looked into as a viable option for agencies. There are more blind Mac users every day. I live in New York City and got my first experience to a Mac at a course in intro to the Mac and voiceover as well as garageband I took in the summer of 2008 at the Lighthouse. I assume such courses will catch on in the future. On Apr 15, 2010, at 5:54 AM, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote: I'd very much doubt it Rob. I don't know what it's like in other countries, but here in Ireland most of the trainers are actually sighted. Macs haven't penetrated the mainstream userbase to the same extent as windows-based Pcs. Consequently the level of knowledge among the trainers on the actual OS itself (not including VO) is virtually non existent. The fact that the trainers would have to go and learn an entirely new platform, and then educate themselves in a new style of assistive technology makes it pretty certain that the majority of blind users will be stuck with Jaws and other badly implemented screenreaders for the foreseeable future. It's sad, but in my opinion true that this is the case. Dónal _ From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Lambert Sent: 15 April 2010 10:47 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Who here thinks we'll see the Mac replacing PCs in AT training offices? On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:43 AM, Joe Plummer joeplum...@tds.net wrote: For other A T you can run boot camp or virtual windows to use them. Sign, Joe Plummer ( JP ) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 5:46 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Hello Denise, I hope the word processor you are thinking of getting is iWork09, since MS Office for Mac is not accessible. As for Word documents of almost any level, TextEdit or Pages will read these just fine. I can't answer any of your other questions having never been a Windows user. Cheers, Anne On Apr 14, 2010, at 11:27 PM, denise avant wrote: hello, after having my iphone for six months now, i have really enjoyed my experience with apple. To that end, i am looking into purchasing a mac book pro. In fact, i called for some specs today and have set one with 4 gig of ram, and a 320 hard drive, 13 in screen. again this is just a possiblity. i will also have the word processor included. i will also have the one-to-one training as there is a nearby apple store in chicago. i am curious as to what those of you who own macs have done about your other windows based adatpive equipment, duxbury, openbook or k1000 and hw stream companion? how easy is it to move ms word 2003 2007 docs over to apple macs, still keep the formatting or move them back again? I thought of just keeping my netbook or sony machine for these purposes. there was also the idea given to me that i could have windows on one side and the mac on the other side. any thoughts on these questions would be apprciated. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:macvisionaries%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:macvisionaries%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:macvisionaries%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this
Re: new member
My theory is this: The more Mac users, the better. It will drive the other guys to come up with the same thing for their system, where you could walk up to a Windows PC, and press a button, and it starts talking. Narrator doesn't count. LOL On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 3:07 AM, Dónal Fitzpatrick dfitz...@computing.dcu.ie wrote: Ricardo I am delighted to hear that's the case, however here I can't see it happening for quite some time. Only the techie people are using iPhones, and even then it's happening by word-of-mouth. Blind people using the Mac is almost unheard of over here. Bring on the revolution! smile -- *From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto: macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Ricardo Walker *Sent:* 15 April 2010 11:02 *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: new member Hi Donald, I disagree. I think economics will come in to play in the next 3 to 5 years. The cost of getting a Mac will justify it being looked into as a viable option for agencies. There are more blind Mac users every day. I live in New York City and got my first experience to a Mac at a course in intro to the Mac and voiceover as well as garageband I took in the summer of 2008 at the Lighthouse. I assume such courses will catch on in the future. On Apr 15, 2010, at 5:54 AM, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote: I'd very much doubt it Rob. I don't know what it's like in other countries, but here in Ireland most of the trainers are actually sighted. Macs haven't penetrated the mainstream userbase to the same extent as windows-based Pcs. Consequently the level of knowledge among the trainers on the actual OS itself (not including VO) is virtually non existent. The fact that the trainers would have to go and learn an entirely new platform, and then educate themselves in a new style of assistive technology makes it pretty certain that the majority of blind users will be stuck with Jaws and other badly implemented screenreaders for the foreseeable future. It's sad, but in my opinion true that this is the case. Dónal -- *From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto: macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Rob Lambert *Sent:* 15 April 2010 10:47 *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: new member Who here thinks we'll see the Mac replacing PCs in AT training offices? On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:43 AM, Joe Plummer joeplum...@tds.net wrote: For other A T you can run boot camp or virtual windows to use them. Sign, Joe Plummer ( JP ) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 5:46 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Hello Denise, I hope the word processor you are thinking of getting is iWork09, since MS Office for Mac is not accessible. As for Word documents of almost any level, TextEdit or Pages will read these just fine. I can't answer any of your other questions having never been a Windows user. Cheers, Anne On Apr 14, 2010, at 11:27 PM, denise avant wrote: hello, after having my iphone for six months now, i have really enjoyed my experience with apple. To that end, i am looking into purchasing a mac book pro. In fact, i called for some specs today and have set one with 4 gig of ram, and a 320 hard drive, 13 in screen. again this is just a possiblity. i will also have the word processor included. i will also have the one-to-one training as there is a nearby apple store in chicago. i am curious as to what those of you who own macs have done about your other windows based adatpive equipment, duxbury, openbook or k1000 and hw stream companion? how easy is it to move ms word 2003 2007 docs over to apple macs, still keep the formatting or move them back again? I thought of just keeping my netbook or sony machine for these purposes. there was also the idea given to me that i could have windows on one side and the mac on the other side. any thoughts on these questions would be apprciated. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commacvisionaries%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commacvisionaries%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at
Re: What do you think?
Nic, just out of curiosity, what is the danish organisation for the blinds view on Apple products? I have a feeling, though i could be wrong, that the swedish blindness organisation is a bit on the conservative side when it comes to the Apple products, however i could be wrong. /Krister 15 apr 2010 kl. 09.14 skrev Nicolai Svendsen: Hi, I seriously doubt that is the case. Apple accessibility has been around for six years now, not three. I doubt NFB had anything to do with it. Apple is going to keep it up because they are committed. The article about the lawsuit doesn't actually mention Apple much. There is actually a very good point of view. Apple poses a threat to the NFB of taking over the technical market. This is why NFB did not sue Skype, but Apple. Agreement or not, I'm pretty sure they listened to users using Outspoken and such, rather than an organization that can't even review the product properly when it is out. Apple has done far more than anyone for accessibility improvements. Apple said they had something in store, and they sure did. I of course realize that it is a pretty serious statement. Of course, I am not particularly a fan of the NFB at all. Saying that, NFB has made some seriously inaccurate statements as well, far outweighing mine. NFB actually has no reason to sue Apple. What would they sue them for, exactly? Because their products are accessible, and they want everyone to pay more than what a Macbook costs for assistive technology? That wouldn't actually surprise me much. It's all about competition. If they think they're about to be kicked out, of course they would consider Apple a threat. Because Apple has done something Microsoft has not. All these things sound really twisted and disgusting to me. Apple can hardly be sued for their effort. Their lawsuit had to do with iTunes on the Windows side. Fair enough, but that is a pretty ridiculous suit if it really is based on accessibility. That is not the case, however, as there are plenty of other useful programs for PCs that are not anywhere near as accessible as iTunes 9. And NFB doesn't care about that. Which, again, leads me to believe that, because NFB is scared of being kicked out, they do everything they can to stop people buying their product. That would make sense. Windows users rely on scripts all the time to use any application. I suggest you look through your jAWS folder to see what I mean. Have you even seen just the download size of a JAWS installation? It's outrageous. People who moan about iTunes not being accessible just because the interface accidentally broke, just need to use scripts like they do for everything else. I'm surprised that wasn't their first complaint. JAWS, or just Windows in general, isn't even that stable. If JAWS crashes, it's stupidly difficult most of the time to reload the product. Even if you manage to do so, you will probably run into the screen not being read correctly when reading list boxes or with the cursor. Or, the worst-case scenario. You have to uninstall JAWS 11 after attempting to install Video Intercept, reinstall JAWS 10, install VIdeo Intercept, uninstall JAWS 10 then reinstall JAWS 11. Maybe I'm slamming the NFB a bit, but really, they need a kick in the ass. I'm just happy the Danish blindness organizations are not this corrupt and twisted, and they actually review fairly and take a proper look at what a company offers before suing them. I'll always be negative about the NFB, though I am actually being neutral when talking about the actual lawsuit itself. Say what you want to, it won't change my mind. Even if it is someone from NFB saying it. Some NFB people are great. Some do incredibly good reviews. Some don't. And in whole, I think the organization just sucks for filing unnecessary lawsuits for nothing. Maybe I'm going on a childish tantrum here, perhaps. But once in a while, you need to. A company is trying to provide great accessibility for their products, and they are sued because of one problem. iTunes is actually still useful on the Windows side, people. Quit your darn nitpicking. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 15, 2010, at 8:08 AM, Rob Lambert wrote: I just got wind, from a friend of mine, that the only reason Apple is accessible to us is because of a lawsuit by the NFB. The term of the agreement was for accessibility improvements for three years. Here's a question. First, what's your side of this ordeal? Second, who thinks Apple will keep up with the accessibility improvements after this three year term is up? I apologize for making smooth waters mirky, I just wanted to know what your take on this was. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post
Re: What do you think?
I'd be interested in knowing this as well. :) On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 3:11 AM, Krister Ekstrom kris...@kristersplace.comwrote: Nic, just out of curiosity, what is the danish organisation for the blinds view on Apple products? I have a feeling, though i could be wrong, that the swedish blindness organisation is a bit on the conservative side when it comes to the Apple products, however i could be wrong. /Krister 15 apr 2010 kl. 09.14 skrev Nicolai Svendsen: Hi, I seriously doubt that is the case. Apple accessibility has been around for six years now, not three. I doubt NFB had anything to do with it. Apple is going to keep it up because they are committed. The article about the lawsuit doesn't actually mention Apple much. There is actually a very good point of view. Apple poses a threat to the NFB of taking over the technical market. This is why NFB did not sue Skype, but Apple. Agreement or not, I'm pretty sure they listened to users using Outspoken and such, rather than an organization that can't even review the product properly when it is out. Apple has done far more than anyone for accessibility improvements. Apple said they had something in store, and they sure did. I of course realize that it is a pretty serious statement. Of course, I am not particularly a fan of the NFB at all. Saying that, NFB has made some seriously inaccurate statements as well, far outweighing mine. NFB actually has no reason to sue Apple. What would they sue them for, exactly? Because their products are accessible, and they want everyone to pay more than what a Macbook costs for assistive technology? That wouldn't actually surprise me much. It's all about competition. If they think they're about to be kicked out, of course they would consider Apple a threat. Because Apple has done something Microsoft has not. All these things sound really twisted and disgusting to me. Apple can hardly be sued for their effort. Their lawsuit had to do with iTunes on the Windows side. Fair enough, but that is a pretty ridiculous suit if it really is based on accessibility. That is not the case, however, as there are plenty of other useful programs for PCs that are not anywhere near as accessible as iTunes 9. And NFB doesn't care about that. Which, again, leads me to believe that, because NFB is scared of being kicked out, they do everything they can to stop people buying their product. That would make sense. Windows users rely on scripts all the time to use any application. I suggest you look through your jAWS folder to see what I mean. Have you even seen just the download size of a JAWS installation? It's outrageous. People who moan about iTunes not being accessible just because the interface accidentally broke, just need to use scripts like they do for everything else. I'm surprised that wasn't their first complaint. JAWS, or just Windows in general, isn't even that stable. If JAWS crashes, it's stupidly difficult most of the time to reload the product. Even if you manage to do so, you will probably run into the screen not being read correctly when reading list boxes or with the cursor. Or, the worst-case scenario. You have to uninstall JAWS 11 after attempting to install Video Intercept, reinstall JAWS 10, install VIdeo Intercept, uninstall JAWS 10 then reinstall JAWS 11. Maybe I'm slamming the NFB a bit, but really, they need a kick in the ass. I'm just happy the Danish blindness organizations are not this corrupt and twisted, and they actually review fairly and take a proper look at what a company offers before suing them. I'll always be negative about the NFB, though I am actually being neutral when talking about the actual lawsuit itself. Say what you want to, it won't change my mind. Even if it is someone from NFB saying it. Some NFB people are great. Some do incredibly good reviews. Some don't. And in whole, I think the organization just sucks for filing unnecessary lawsuits for nothing. Maybe I'm going on a childish tantrum here, perhaps. But once in a while, you need to. A company is trying to provide great accessibility for their products, and they are sued because of one problem. iTunes is actually still useful on the Windows side, people. Quit your darn nitpicking. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 15, 2010, at 8:08 AM, Rob Lambert wrote: I just got wind, from a friend of mine, that the only reason Apple is accessible to us is because of a lawsuit by the NFB. The term of the agreement was for accessibility improvements for three years. Here's a question. First, what's your side of this ordeal? Second, who thinks Apple will keep up with the accessibility improvements after this three year term is up? I apologize for making smooth waters mirky, I just wanted to know what your take on this was. -- You
Re: new member
I think it all depends on the user and their attitude too. An individual may hear about macs on a podcast or know of another user with a mac who is also VI, and take themselves off to the Apple store. In manchester, I know due to myself and a few other VI customers, most of the staff in the store are highly familiar with voice over. As for training, I think its coming from Apple in the near future. On 15 Apr 2010, at 10:54, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote: I'd very much doubt it Rob. I don't know what it's like in other countries, but here in Ireland most of the trainers are actually sighted. Macs haven't penetrated the mainstream userbase to the same extent as windows-based Pcs. Consequently the level of knowledge among the trainers on the actual OS itself (not including VO) is virtually non existent. The fact that the trainers would have to go and learn an entirely new platform, and then educate themselves in a new style of assistive technology makes it pretty certain that the majority of blind users will be stuck with Jaws and other badly implemented screenreaders for the foreseeable future. It's sad, but in my opinion true that this is the case. Dónal From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Lambert Sent: 15 April 2010 10:47 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Who here thinks we'll see the Mac replacing PCs in AT training offices? On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:43 AM, Joe Plummer joeplum...@tds.net wrote: For other A T you can run boot camp or virtual windows to use them. Sign, Joe Plummer ( JP ) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 5:46 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Hello Denise, I hope the word processor you are thinking of getting is iWork09, since MS Office for Mac is not accessible. As for Word documents of almost any level, TextEdit or Pages will read these just fine. I can't answer any of your other questions having never been a Windows user. Cheers, Anne On Apr 14, 2010, at 11:27 PM, denise avant wrote: hello, after having my iphone for six months now, i have really enjoyed my experience with apple. To that end, i am looking into purchasing a mac book pro. In fact, i called for some specs today and have set one with 4 gig of ram, and a 320 hard drive, 13 in screen. again this is just a possiblity. i will also have the word processor included. i will also have the one-to-one training as there is a nearby apple store in chicago. i am curious as to what those of you who own macs have done about your other windows based adatpive equipment, duxbury, openbook or k1000 and hw stream companion? how easy is it to move ms word 2003 2007 docs over to apple macs, still keep the formatting or move them back again? I thought of just keeping my netbook or sony machine for these purposes. there was also the idea given to me that i could have windows on one side and the mac on the other side. any thoughts on these questions would be apprciated. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For
Re: new member
I agree. Only time will tell, of course. Who better to train people on their products than Apple themselves? I haven't used it, but I do like their one-to-one service, and my hope is they've set aside some staff that have been trained in VoiceOver for us. If not, they should. On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 3:24 AM, marie Howarth marie.jane2...@gmail.comwrote: I think it all depends on the user and their attitude too. An individual may hear about macs on a podcast or know of another user with a mac who is also VI, and take themselves off to the Apple store. In manchester, I know due to myself and a few other VI customers, most of the staff in the store are highly familiar with voice over. As for training, I think its coming from Apple in the near future. On 15 Apr 2010, at 10:54, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote: I'd very much doubt it Rob. I don't know what it's like in other countries, but here in Ireland most of the trainers are actually sighted. Macs haven't penetrated the mainstream userbase to the same extent as windows-based Pcs. Consequently the level of knowledge among the trainers on the actual OS itself (not including VO) is virtually non existent. The fact that the trainers would have to go and learn an entirely new platform, and then educate themselves in a new style of assistive technology makes it pretty certain that the majority of blind users will be stuck with Jaws and other badly implemented screenreaders for the foreseeable future. It's sad, but in my opinion true that this is the case. Dónal -- *From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto: macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Rob Lambert *Sent:* 15 April 2010 10:47 *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: new member Who here thinks we'll see the Mac replacing PCs in AT training offices? On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:43 AM, Joe Plummer joeplum...@tds.net wrote: For other A T you can run boot camp or virtual windows to use them. Sign, Joe Plummer ( JP ) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 5:46 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Hello Denise, I hope the word processor you are thinking of getting is iWork09, since MS Office for Mac is not accessible. As for Word documents of almost any level, TextEdit or Pages will read these just fine. I can't answer any of your other questions having never been a Windows user. Cheers, Anne On Apr 14, 2010, at 11:27 PM, denise avant wrote: hello, after having my iphone for six months now, i have really enjoyed my experience with apple. To that end, i am looking into purchasing a mac book pro. In fact, i called for some specs today and have set one with 4 gig of ram, and a 320 hard drive, 13 in screen. again this is just a possiblity. i will also have the word processor included. i will also have the one-to-one training as there is a nearby apple store in chicago. i am curious as to what those of you who own macs have done about your other windows based adatpive equipment, duxbury, openbook or k1000 and hw stream companion? how easy is it to move ms word 2003 2007 docs over to apple macs, still keep the formatting or move them back again? I thought of just keeping my netbook or sony machine for these purposes. there was also the idea given to me that i could have windows on one side and the mac on the other side. any thoughts on these questions would be apprciated. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commacvisionaries%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commacvisionaries%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commacvisionaries%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group,
Re: What do you think?
The RNIB seems to be ignoring apple. I'm currently working with their sister company as the RNIB and action for the blind merged recently so RNIB carries out the campaigning and such and action provides support. They didn't even know the mac could talk. This saddens me as I know there are an increasing number of UK mac users and to think a huge support organisation like this is either aware and choosing to ignore this or simply is not aware of it angers me. On 15 Apr 2010, at 11:11, Krister Ekstrom wrote: Nic, just out of curiosity, what is the danish organisation for the blinds view on Apple products? I have a feeling, though i could be wrong, that the swedish blindness organisation is a bit on the conservative side when it comes to the Apple products, however i could be wrong. /Krister 15 apr 2010 kl. 09.14 skrev Nicolai Svendsen: Hi, I seriously doubt that is the case. Apple accessibility has been around for six years now, not three. I doubt NFB had anything to do with it. Apple is going to keep it up because they are committed. The article about the lawsuit doesn't actually mention Apple much. There is actually a very good point of view. Apple poses a threat to the NFB of taking over the technical market. This is why NFB did not sue Skype, but Apple. Agreement or not, I'm pretty sure they listened to users using Outspoken and such, rather than an organization that can't even review the product properly when it is out. Apple has done far more than anyone for accessibility improvements. Apple said they had something in store, and they sure did. I of course realize that it is a pretty serious statement. Of course, I am not particularly a fan of the NFB at all. Saying that, NFB has made some seriously inaccurate statements as well, far outweighing mine. NFB actually has no reason to sue Apple. What would they sue them for, exactly? Because their products are accessible, and they want everyone to pay more than what a Macbook costs for assistive technology? That wouldn't actually surprise me much. It's all about competition. If they think they're about to be kicked out, of course they would consider Apple a threat. Because Apple has done something Microsoft has not. All these things sound really twisted and disgusting to me. Apple can hardly be sued for their effort. Their lawsuit had to do with iTunes on the Windows side. Fair enough, but that is a pretty ridiculous suit if it really is based on accessibility. That is not the case, however, as there are plenty of other useful programs for PCs that are not anywhere near as accessible as iTunes 9. And NFB doesn't care about that. Which, again, leads me to believe that, because NFB is scared of being kicked out, they do everything they can to stop people buying their product. That would make sense. Windows users rely on scripts all the time to use any application. I suggest you look through your jAWS folder to see what I mean. Have you even seen just the download size of a JAWS installation? It's outrageous. People who moan about iTunes not being accessible just because the interface accidentally broke, just need to use scripts like they do for everything else. I'm surprised that wasn't their first complaint. JAWS, or just Windows in general, isn't even that stable. If JAWS crashes, it's stupidly difficult most of the time to reload the product. Even if you manage to do so, you will probably run into the screen not being read correctly when reading list boxes or with the cursor. Or, the worst-case scenario. You have to uninstall JAWS 11 after attempting to install Video Intercept, reinstall JAWS 10, install VIdeo Intercept, uninstall JAWS 10 then reinstall JAWS 11. Maybe I'm slamming the NFB a bit, but really, they need a kick in the ass. I'm just happy the Danish blindness organizations are not this corrupt and twisted, and they actually review fairly and take a proper look at what a company offers before suing them. I'll always be negative about the NFB, though I am actually being neutral when talking about the actual lawsuit itself. Say what you want to, it won't change my mind. Even if it is someone from NFB saying it. Some NFB people are great. Some do incredibly good reviews. Some don't. And in whole, I think the organization just sucks for filing unnecessary lawsuits for nothing. Maybe I'm going on a childish tantrum here, perhaps. But once in a while, you need to. A company is trying to provide great accessibility for their products, and they are sued because of one problem. iTunes is actually still useful on the Windows side, people. Quit your darn nitpicking. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 15, 2010, at 8:08 AM, Rob Lambert wrote: I just got wind, from a friend of mine, that the only reason
Re: new member
I know in my local store, there are two designated VO trainers and other staff constantly tell me they have played with VO on varying products. I think where there is a demand for it it will happen. Apple is extremely flexible. :) On 15 Apr 2010, at 11:27, Rob Lambert wrote: I agree. Only time will tell, of course. Who better to train people on their products than Apple themselves? I haven't used it, but I do like their one-to-one service, and my hope is they've set aside some staff that have been trained in VoiceOver for us. If not, they should. On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 3:24 AM, marie Howarth marie.jane2...@gmail.com wrote: I think it all depends on the user and their attitude too. An individual may hear about macs on a podcast or know of another user with a mac who is also VI, and take themselves off to the Apple store. In manchester, I know due to myself and a few other VI customers, most of the staff in the store are highly familiar with voice over. As for training, I think its coming from Apple in the near future. On 15 Apr 2010, at 10:54, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote: I'd very much doubt it Rob. I don't know what it's like in other countries, but here in Ireland most of the trainers are actually sighted. Macs haven't penetrated the mainstream userbase to the same extent as windows-based Pcs. Consequently the level of knowledge among the trainers on the actual OS itself (not including VO) is virtually non existent. The fact that the trainers would have to go and learn an entirely new platform, and then educate themselves in a new style of assistive technology makes it pretty certain that the majority of blind users will be stuck with Jaws and other badly implemented screenreaders for the foreseeable future. It's sad, but in my opinion true that this is the case. Dónal From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Lambert Sent: 15 April 2010 10:47 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Who here thinks we'll see the Mac replacing PCs in AT training offices? On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:43 AM, Joe Plummer joeplum...@tds.net wrote: For other A T you can run boot camp or virtual windows to use them. Sign, Joe Plummer ( JP ) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 5:46 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Hello Denise, I hope the word processor you are thinking of getting is iWork09, since MS Office for Mac is not accessible. As for Word documents of almost any level, TextEdit or Pages will read these just fine. I can't answer any of your other questions having never been a Windows user. Cheers, Anne On Apr 14, 2010, at 11:27 PM, denise avant wrote: hello, after having my iphone for six months now, i have really enjoyed my experience with apple. To that end, i am looking into purchasing a mac book pro. In fact, i called for some specs today and have set one with 4 gig of ram, and a 320 hard drive, 13 in screen. again this is just a possiblity. i will also have the word processor included. i will also have the one-to-one training as there is a nearby apple store in chicago. i am curious as to what those of you who own macs have done about your other windows based adatpive equipment, duxbury, openbook or k1000 and hw stream companion? how easy is it to move ms word 2003 2007 docs over to apple macs, still keep the formatting or move them back again? I thought of just keeping my netbook or sony machine for these purposes. there was also the idea given to me that i could have windows on one side and the mac on the other side. any thoughts on these questions would be apprciated. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at
Re: What do you think?
That bugs me as well, and I'm not even from the UK. On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 3:28 AM, marie Howarth marie.jane2...@gmail.comwrote: The RNIB seems to be ignoring apple. I'm currently working with their sister company as the RNIB and action for the blind merged recently so RNIB carries out the campaigning and such and action provides support. They didn't even know the mac could talk. This saddens me as I know there are an increasing number of UK mac users and to think a huge support organisation like this is either aware and choosing to ignore this or simply is not aware of it angers me. On 15 Apr 2010, at 11:11, Krister Ekstrom wrote: Nic, just out of curiosity, what is the danish organisation for the blinds view on Apple products? I have a feeling, though i could be wrong, that the swedish blindness organisation is a bit on the conservative side when it comes to the Apple products, however i could be wrong. /Krister 15 apr 2010 kl. 09.14 skrev Nicolai Svendsen: Hi, I seriously doubt that is the case. Apple accessibility has been around for six years now, not three. I doubt NFB had anything to do with it. Apple is going to keep it up because they are committed. The article about the lawsuit doesn't actually mention Apple much. There is actually a very good point of view. Apple poses a threat to the NFB of taking over the technical market. This is why NFB did not sue Skype, but Apple. Agreement or not, I'm pretty sure they listened to users using Outspoken and such, rather than an organization that can't even review the product properly when it is out. Apple has done far more than anyone for accessibility improvements. Apple said they had something in store, and they sure did. I of course realize that it is a pretty serious statement. Of course, I am not particularly a fan of the NFB at all. Saying that, NFB has made some seriously inaccurate statements as well, far outweighing mine. NFB actually has no reason to sue Apple. What would they sue them for, exactly? Because their products are accessible, and they want everyone to pay more than what a Macbook costs for assistive technology? That wouldn't actually surprise me much. It's all about competition. If they think they're about to be kicked out, of course they would consider Apple a threat. Because Apple has done something Microsoft has not. All these things sound really twisted and disgusting to me. Apple can hardly be sued for their effort. Their lawsuit had to do with iTunes on the Windows side. Fair enough, but that is a pretty ridiculous suit if it really is based on accessibility. That is not the case, however, as there are plenty of other useful programs for PCs that are not anywhere near as accessible as iTunes 9. And NFB doesn't care about that. Which, again, leads me to believe that, because NFB is scared of being kicked out, they do everything they can to stop people buying their product. That would make sense. Windows users rely on scripts all the time to use any application. I suggest you look through your jAWS folder to see what I mean. Have you even seen just the download size of a JAWS installation? It's outrageous. People who moan about iTunes not being accessible just because the interface accidentally broke, just need to use scripts like they do for everything else. I'm surprised that wasn't their first complaint. JAWS, or just Windows in general, isn't even that stable. If JAWS crashes, it's stupidly difficult most of the time to reload the product. Even if you manage to do so, you will probably run into the screen not being read correctly when reading list boxes or with the cursor. Or, the worst-case scenario. You have to uninstall JAWS 11 after attempting to install Video Intercept, reinstall JAWS 10, install VIdeo Intercept, uninstall JAWS 10 then reinstall JAWS 11. Maybe I'm slamming the NFB a bit, but really, they need a kick in the ass. I'm just happy the Danish blindness organizations are not this corrupt and twisted, and they actually review fairly and take a proper look at what a company offers before suing them. I'll always be negative about the NFB, though I am actually being neutral when talking about the actual lawsuit itself. Say what you want to, it won't change my mind. Even if it is someone from NFB saying it. Some NFB people are great. Some do incredibly good reviews. Some don't. And in whole, I think the organization just sucks for filing unnecessary lawsuits for nothing. Maybe I'm going on a childish tantrum here, perhaps. But once in a while, you need to. A company is trying to provide great accessibility for their products, and they are sued because of one problem. iTunes is actually still useful on the Windows side, people. Quit your darn nitpicking. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr
Re: new member
That's what I love about Apple. :) On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 3:30 AM, marie Howarth marie.jane2...@gmail.comwrote: I know in my local store, there are two designated VO trainers and other staff constantly tell me they have played with VO on varying products. I think where there is a demand for it it will happen. Apple is extremely flexible. :) On 15 Apr 2010, at 11:27, Rob Lambert wrote: I agree. Only time will tell, of course. Who better to train people on their products than Apple themselves? I haven't used it, but I do like their one-to-one service, and my hope is they've set aside some staff that have been trained in VoiceOver for us. If not, they should. On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 3:24 AM, marie Howarth marie.jane2...@gmail.comwrote: I think it all depends on the user and their attitude too. An individual may hear about macs on a podcast or know of another user with a mac who is also VI, and take themselves off to the Apple store. In manchester, I know due to myself and a few other VI customers, most of the staff in the store are highly familiar with voice over. As for training, I think its coming from Apple in the near future. On 15 Apr 2010, at 10:54, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote: I'd very much doubt it Rob. I don't know what it's like in other countries, but here in Ireland most of the trainers are actually sighted. Macs haven't penetrated the mainstream userbase to the same extent as windows-based Pcs. Consequently the level of knowledge among the trainers on the actual OS itself (not including VO) is virtually non existent. The fact that the trainers would have to go and learn an entirely new platform, and then educate themselves in a new style of assistive technology makes it pretty certain that the majority of blind users will be stuck with Jaws and other badly implemented screenreaders for the foreseeable future. It's sad, but in my opinion true that this is the case. Dónal -- *From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto: macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Rob Lambert *Sent:* 15 April 2010 10:47 *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: new member Who here thinks we'll see the Mac replacing PCs in AT training offices? On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:43 AM, Joe Plummer joeplum...@tds.net wrote: For other A T you can run boot camp or virtual windows to use them. Sign, Joe Plummer ( JP ) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 5:46 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Hello Denise, I hope the word processor you are thinking of getting is iWork09, since MS Office for Mac is not accessible. As for Word documents of almost any level, TextEdit or Pages will read these just fine. I can't answer any of your other questions having never been a Windows user. Cheers, Anne On Apr 14, 2010, at 11:27 PM, denise avant wrote: hello, after having my iphone for six months now, i have really enjoyed my experience with apple. To that end, i am looking into purchasing a mac book pro. In fact, i called for some specs today and have set one with 4 gig of ram, and a 320 hard drive, 13 in screen. again this is just a possiblity. i will also have the word processor included. i will also have the one-to-one training as there is a nearby apple store in chicago. i am curious as to what those of you who own macs have done about your other windows based adatpive equipment, duxbury, openbook or k1000 and hw stream companion? how easy is it to move ms word 2003 2007 docs over to apple macs, still keep the formatting or move them back again? I thought of just keeping my netbook or sony machine for these purposes. there was also the idea given to me that i could have windows on one side and the mac on the other side. any thoughts on these questions would be apprciated. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commacvisionaries%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commacvisionaries%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send
Re: new member
Hi, I think it has to start with agencies for the blind and the educational system. As an adult it's easy enough to just get up and go to an apple store, or have the money to pay for 1 on 1 training at said apple store. But a 12 year old not so much. I think younger people must be exposed to other options. It doesn't even have anything to do with how great Apple is. It's just creating a market where people can obtain access to the technology they need without selling their first born. lol. If anything, I think Apple has started to make makers of adaptive technology squirm a bit. It becomes harder for them to justified the cost of their products. On Apr 15, 2010, at 6:30 AM, marie Howarth wrote: I know in my local store, there are two designated VO trainers and other staff constantly tell me they have played with VO on varying products. I think where there is a demand for it it will happen. Apple is extremely flexible. :) On 15 Apr 2010, at 11:27, Rob Lambert wrote: I agree. Only time will tell, of course. Who better to train people on their products than Apple themselves? I haven't used it, but I do like their one-to-one service, and my hope is they've set aside some staff that have been trained in VoiceOver for us. If not, they should. On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 3:24 AM, marie Howarth marie.jane2...@gmail.com wrote: I think it all depends on the user and their attitude too. An individual may hear about macs on a podcast or know of another user with a mac who is also VI, and take themselves off to the Apple store. In manchester, I know due to myself and a few other VI customers, most of the staff in the store are highly familiar with voice over. As for training, I think its coming from Apple in the near future. On 15 Apr 2010, at 10:54, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote: I'd very much doubt it Rob. I don't know what it's like in other countries, but here in Ireland most of the trainers are actually sighted. Macs haven't penetrated the mainstream userbase to the same extent as windows-based Pcs. Consequently the level of knowledge among the trainers on the actual OS itself (not including VO) is virtually non existent. The fact that the trainers would have to go and learn an entirely new platform, and then educate themselves in a new style of assistive technology makes it pretty certain that the majority of blind users will be stuck with Jaws and other badly implemented screenreaders for the foreseeable future. It's sad, but in my opinion true that this is the case. Dónal From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Lambert Sent: 15 April 2010 10:47 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Who here thinks we'll see the Mac replacing PCs in AT training offices? On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:43 AM, Joe Plummer joeplum...@tds.net wrote: For other A T you can run boot camp or virtual windows to use them. Sign, Joe Plummer ( JP ) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 5:46 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Hello Denise, I hope the word processor you are thinking of getting is iWork09, since MS Office for Mac is not accessible. As for Word documents of almost any level, TextEdit or Pages will read these just fine. I can't answer any of your other questions having never been a Windows user. Cheers, Anne On Apr 14, 2010, at 11:27 PM, denise avant wrote: hello, after having my iphone for six months now, i have really enjoyed my experience with apple. To that end, i am looking into purchasing a mac book pro. In fact, i called for some specs today and have set one with 4 gig of ram, and a 320 hard drive, 13 in screen. again this is just a possiblity. i will also have the word processor included. i will also have the one-to-one training as there is a nearby apple store in chicago. i am curious as to what those of you who own macs have done about your other windows based adatpive equipment, duxbury, openbook or k1000 and hw stream companion? how easy is it to move ms word 2003 2007 docs over to apple macs, still keep the formatting or move them back again? I thought of just keeping my netbook or sony machine for these purposes. there was also the idea given to me that i could have windows on one side and the mac on the other side. any thoughts on these questions would be apprciated. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at
Re: new member
Without the support of the blind organisations, most school systems, at least here, wouldn't dream of venturing into something the blind organisation wouldn't support. On 15 Apr 2010, at 11:43, Ricardo Walker wrote: Hi, I think it has to start with agencies for the blind and the educational system. As an adult it's easy enough to just get up and go to an apple store, or have the money to pay for 1 on 1 training at said apple store. But a 12 year old not so much. I think younger people must be exposed to other options. It doesn't even have anything to do with how great Apple is. It's just creating a market where people can obtain access to the technology they need without selling their first born. lol. If anything, I think Apple has started to make makers of adaptive technology squirm a bit. It becomes harder for them to justified the cost of their products. On Apr 15, 2010, at 6:30 AM, marie Howarth wrote: I know in my local store, there are two designated VO trainers and other staff constantly tell me they have played with VO on varying products. I think where there is a demand for it it will happen. Apple is extremely flexible. :) On 15 Apr 2010, at 11:27, Rob Lambert wrote: I agree. Only time will tell, of course. Who better to train people on their products than Apple themselves? I haven't used it, but I do like their one-to-one service, and my hope is they've set aside some staff that have been trained in VoiceOver for us. If not, they should. On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 3:24 AM, marie Howarth marie.jane2...@gmail.com wrote: I think it all depends on the user and their attitude too. An individual may hear about macs on a podcast or know of another user with a mac who is also VI, and take themselves off to the Apple store. In manchester, I know due to myself and a few other VI customers, most of the staff in the store are highly familiar with voice over. As for training, I think its coming from Apple in the near future. On 15 Apr 2010, at 10:54, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote: I'd very much doubt it Rob. I don't know what it's like in other countries, but here in Ireland most of the trainers are actually sighted. Macs haven't penetrated the mainstream userbase to the same extent as windows-based Pcs. Consequently the level of knowledge among the trainers on the actual OS itself (not including VO) is virtually non existent. The fact that the trainers would have to go and learn an entirely new platform, and then educate themselves in a new style of assistive technology makes it pretty certain that the majority of blind users will be stuck with Jaws and other badly implemented screenreaders for the foreseeable future. It's sad, but in my opinion true that this is the case. Dónal From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Lambert Sent: 15 April 2010 10:47 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Who here thinks we'll see the Mac replacing PCs in AT training offices? On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:43 AM, Joe Plummer joeplum...@tds.net wrote: For other A T you can run boot camp or virtual windows to use them. Sign, Joe Plummer ( JP ) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 5:46 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Hello Denise, I hope the word processor you are thinking of getting is iWork09, since MS Office for Mac is not accessible. As for Word documents of almost any level, TextEdit or Pages will read these just fine. I can't answer any of your other questions having never been a Windows user. Cheers, Anne On Apr 14, 2010, at 11:27 PM, denise avant wrote: hello, after having my iphone for six months now, i have really enjoyed my experience with apple. To that end, i am looking into purchasing a mac book pro. In fact, i called for some specs today and have set one with 4 gig of ram, and a 320 hard drive, 13 in screen. again this is just a possiblity. i will also have the word processor included. i will also have the one-to-one training as there is a nearby apple store in chicago. i am curious as to what those of you who own macs have done about your other windows based adatpive equipment, duxbury, openbook or k1000 and hw stream companion? how easy is it to move ms word 2003 2007 docs over to apple macs, still keep the formatting or move them back again? I thought of just keeping my netbook or sony machine for these purposes. there was also the idea given to me that i could have windows on one side and the mac on the other side. any thoughts on these questions would be apprciated. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group.
Re: new member
Very valid point, Ricardo. I agree whole heartedly. On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 3:43 AM, Ricardo Walker rwalker...@gmail.comwrote: Hi, I think it has to start with agencies for the blind and the educational system. As an adult it's easy enough to just get up and go to an apple store, or have the money to pay for 1 on 1 training at said apple store. But a 12 year old not so much. I think younger people must be exposed to other options. It doesn't even have anything to do with how great Apple is. It's just creating a market where people can obtain access to the technology they need without selling their first born. lol. If anything, I think Apple has started to make makers of adaptive technology squirm a bit. It becomes harder for them to justified the cost of their products. On Apr 15, 2010, at 6:30 AM, marie Howarth wrote: I know in my local store, there are two designated VO trainers and other staff constantly tell me they have played with VO on varying products. I think where there is a demand for it it will happen. Apple is extremely flexible. :) On 15 Apr 2010, at 11:27, Rob Lambert wrote: I agree. Only time will tell, of course. Who better to train people on their products than Apple themselves? I haven't used it, but I do like their one-to-one service, and my hope is they've set aside some staff that have been trained in VoiceOver for us. If not, they should. On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 3:24 AM, marie Howarth marie.jane2...@gmail.comwrote: I think it all depends on the user and their attitude too. An individual may hear about macs on a podcast or know of another user with a mac who is also VI, and take themselves off to the Apple store. In manchester, I know due to myself and a few other VI customers, most of the staff in the store are highly familiar with voice over. As for training, I think its coming from Apple in the near future. On 15 Apr 2010, at 10:54, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote: I'd very much doubt it Rob. I don't know what it's like in other countries, but here in Ireland most of the trainers are actually sighted. Macs haven't penetrated the mainstream userbase to the same extent as windows-based Pcs. Consequently the level of knowledge among the trainers on the actual OS itself (not including VO) is virtually non existent. The fact that the trainers would have to go and learn an entirely new platform, and then educate themselves in a new style of assistive technology makes it pretty certain that the majority of blind users will be stuck with Jaws and other badly implemented screenreaders for the foreseeable future. It's sad, but in my opinion true that this is the case. Dónal -- *From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto: macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Rob Lambert *Sent:* 15 April 2010 10:47 *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: new member Who here thinks we'll see the Mac replacing PCs in AT training offices? On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:43 AM, Joe Plummer joeplum...@tds.net wrote: For other A T you can run boot camp or virtual windows to use them. Sign, Joe Plummer ( JP ) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 5:46 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Hello Denise, I hope the word processor you are thinking of getting is iWork09, since MS Office for Mac is not accessible. As for Word documents of almost any level, TextEdit or Pages will read these just fine. I can't answer any of your other questions having never been a Windows user. Cheers, Anne On Apr 14, 2010, at 11:27 PM, denise avant wrote: hello, after having my iphone for six months now, i have really enjoyed my experience with apple. To that end, i am looking into purchasing a mac book pro. In fact, i called for some specs today and have set one with 4 gig of ram, and a 320 hard drive, 13 in screen. again this is just a possiblity. i will also have the word processor included. i will also have the one-to-one training as there is a nearby apple store in chicago. i am curious as to what those of you who own macs have done about your other windows based adatpive equipment, duxbury, openbook or k1000 and hw stream companion? how easy is it to move ms word 2003 2007 docs over to apple macs, still keep the formatting or move them back again? I thought of just keeping my netbook or sony machine for these purposes. there was also the idea given to me that i could have windows on one side and the mac on the other side. any thoughts on these questions would be apprciated. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group,
Re: new member
I've just done a little scouting around. And I was wrong. RNIB actually have offered training days for agencies, people with a VI and parents of children who are have VI children. They also list the IPhone on their accessible phones list. I guess the information has not filtered across to their organisation who carries out the support. So I guess they acknowledge the fact but don't shout about it. On 15 Apr 2010, at 11:46, Rob Lambert wrote: Very valid point, Ricardo. I agree whole heartedly. On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 3:43 AM, Ricardo Walker rwalker...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I think it has to start with agencies for the blind and the educational system. As an adult it's easy enough to just get up and go to an apple store, or have the money to pay for 1 on 1 training at said apple store. But a 12 year old not so much. I think younger people must be exposed to other options. It doesn't even have anything to do with how great Apple is. It's just creating a market where people can obtain access to the technology they need without selling their first born. lol. If anything, I think Apple has started to make makers of adaptive technology squirm a bit. It becomes harder for them to justified the cost of their products. On Apr 15, 2010, at 6:30 AM, marie Howarth wrote: I know in my local store, there are two designated VO trainers and other staff constantly tell me they have played with VO on varying products. I think where there is a demand for it it will happen. Apple is extremely flexible. :) On 15 Apr 2010, at 11:27, Rob Lambert wrote: I agree. Only time will tell, of course. Who better to train people on their products than Apple themselves? I haven't used it, but I do like their one-to-one service, and my hope is they've set aside some staff that have been trained in VoiceOver for us. If not, they should. On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 3:24 AM, marie Howarth marie.jane2...@gmail.com wrote: I think it all depends on the user and their attitude too. An individual may hear about macs on a podcast or know of another user with a mac who is also VI, and take themselves off to the Apple store. In manchester, I know due to myself and a few other VI customers, most of the staff in the store are highly familiar with voice over. As for training, I think its coming from Apple in the near future. On 15 Apr 2010, at 10:54, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote: I'd very much doubt it Rob. I don't know what it's like in other countries, but here in Ireland most of the trainers are actually sighted. Macs haven't penetrated the mainstream userbase to the same extent as windows-based Pcs. Consequently the level of knowledge among the trainers on the actual OS itself (not including VO) is virtually non existent. The fact that the trainers would have to go and learn an entirely new platform, and then educate themselves in a new style of assistive technology makes it pretty certain that the majority of blind users will be stuck with Jaws and other badly implemented screenreaders for the foreseeable future. It's sad, but in my opinion true that this is the case. Dónal From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Lambert Sent: 15 April 2010 10:47 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Who here thinks we'll see the Mac replacing PCs in AT training offices? On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:43 AM, Joe Plummer joeplum...@tds.net wrote: For other A T you can run boot camp or virtual windows to use them. Sign, Joe Plummer ( JP ) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 5:46 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Hello Denise, I hope the word processor you are thinking of getting is iWork09, since MS Office for Mac is not accessible. As for Word documents of almost any level, TextEdit or Pages will read these just fine. I can't answer any of your other questions having never been a Windows user. Cheers, Anne On Apr 14, 2010, at 11:27 PM, denise avant wrote: hello, after having my iphone for six months now, i have really enjoyed my experience with apple. To that end, i am looking into purchasing a mac book pro. In fact, i called for some specs today and have set one with 4 gig of ram, and a 320 hard drive, 13 in screen. again this is just a possiblity. i will also have the word processor included. i will also have the one-to-one training as there is a nearby apple store in chicago. i am curious as to what those of you who own macs have done about your other windows based adatpive equipment, duxbury, openbook or k1000 and hw stream companion? how easy is it to move ms word 2003 2007 docs over to apple macs, still keep the formatting or
RE: new member
Very interesting that RNIB are offering those training days. I don't think the NCBI (Irish equivalent) do. Referring back to a previous note on this thread, you're quite correct that the guys at the Applestore in Manchester are superb. I'm over there rather a lot for religious (sorry soccer!) reasons and I pop in there pretty much every trip to play with the toys and look at the accessories I shouldn't buy but would love to have. On each occasion I've encountered people who knew the assistive products on macs and iPhones. Ah, wouldn't it be nice to have a local Apple store smile Cheers Dónal _ From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of marie Howarth Sent: 15 April 2010 12:03 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member I've just done a little scouting around. And I was wrong. RNIB actually have offered training days for agencies, people with a VI and parents of children who are have VI children. They also list the IPhone on their accessible phones list. I guess the information has not filtered across to their organisation who carries out the support. So I guess they acknowledge the fact but don't shout about it. On 15 Apr 2010, at 11:46, Rob Lambert wrote: Very valid point, Ricardo. I agree whole heartedly. On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 3:43 AM, Ricardo Walker rwalker...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I think it has to start with agencies for the blind and the educational system. As an adult it's easy enough to just get up and go to an apple store, or have the money to pay for 1 on 1 training at said apple store. But a 12 year old not so much. I think younger people must be exposed to other options. It doesn't even have anything to do with how great Apple is. It's just creating a market where people can obtain access to the technology they need without selling their first born. lol. If anything, I think Apple has started to make makers of adaptive technology squirm a bit. It becomes harder for them to justified the cost of their products. On Apr 15, 2010, at 6:30 AM, marie Howarth wrote: I know in my local store, there are two designated VO trainers and other staff constantly tell me they have played with VO on varying products. I think where there is a demand for it it will happen. Apple is extremely flexible. :) On 15 Apr 2010, at 11:27, Rob Lambert wrote: I agree. Only time will tell, of course. Who better to train people on their products than Apple themselves? I haven't used it, but I do like their one-to-one service, and my hope is they've set aside some staff that have been trained in VoiceOver for us. If not, they should. On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 3:24 AM, marie Howarth marie.jane2...@gmail.com wrote: I think it all depends on the user and their attitude too. An individual may hear about macs on a podcast or know of another user with a mac who is also VI, and take themselves off to the Apple store. In manchester, I know due to myself and a few other VI customers, most of the staff in the store are highly familiar with voice over. As for training, I think its coming from Apple in the near future. On 15 Apr 2010, at 10:54, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote: I'd very much doubt it Rob. I don't know what it's like in other countries, but here in Ireland most of the trainers are actually sighted. Macs haven't penetrated the mainstream userbase to the same extent as windows-based Pcs. Consequently the level of knowledge among the trainers on the actual OS itself (not including VO) is virtually non existent. The fact that the trainers would have to go and learn an entirely new platform, and then educate themselves in a new style of assistive technology makes it pretty certain that the majority of blind users will be stuck with Jaws and other badly implemented screenreaders for the foreseeable future. It's sad, but in my opinion true that this is the case. Dónal _ From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Lambert Sent: 15 April 2010 10:47 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Who here thinks we'll see the Mac replacing PCs in AT training offices? On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:43 AM, Joe Plummer joeplum...@tds.net wrote: For other A T you can run boot camp or virtual windows to use them. Sign, Joe Plummer ( JP ) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 5:46 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Hello Denise, I hope the word processor you are thinking of getting is iWork09, since MS Office for Mac is not accessible. As for Word documents of almost any level, TextEdit or Pages will read these just fine. I can't answer any of your other questions having never been a Windows user. Cheers, Anne On Apr 14, 2010, at 11:27 PM, denise avant wrote:
Re: new member
They are my local apple store and I love the guys in there! Just last Monday I popped into play with a mac. I'm planning on getting a new macbook later this year and was playing with the track pad in the store. Always so helpful and friendly. :) On 15 Apr 2010, at 12:12, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote: Very interesting that RNIB are offering those training days. I don't think the NCBI (Irish equivalent) do. Referring back to a previous note on this thread, you're quite correct that the guys at the Applestore in Manchester are superb. I'm over there rather a lot for religious (sorry soccer!) reasons and I pop in there pretty much every trip to play with the toys and look at the accessories I shouldn't buy but would love to have. On each occasion I've encountered people who knew the assistive products on macs and iPhones. Ah, wouldn't it be nice to have a local Apple store smile Cheers Dónal From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of marie Howarth Sent: 15 April 2010 12:03 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member I've just done a little scouting around. And I was wrong. RNIB actually have offered training days for agencies, people with a VI and parents of children who are have VI children. They also list the IPhone on their accessible phones list. I guess the information has not filtered across to their organisation who carries out the support. So I guess they acknowledge the fact but don't shout about it. On 15 Apr 2010, at 11:46, Rob Lambert wrote: Very valid point, Ricardo. I agree whole heartedly. On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 3:43 AM, Ricardo Walker rwalker...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I think it has to start with agencies for the blind and the educational system. As an adult it's easy enough to just get up and go to an apple store, or have the money to pay for 1 on 1 training at said apple store. But a 12 year old not so much. I think younger people must be exposed to other options. It doesn't even have anything to do with how great Apple is. It's just creating a market where people can obtain access to the technology they need without selling their first born. lol. If anything, I think Apple has started to make makers of adaptive technology squirm a bit. It becomes harder for them to justified the cost of their products. On Apr 15, 2010, at 6:30 AM, marie Howarth wrote: I know in my local store, there are two designated VO trainers and other staff constantly tell me they have played with VO on varying products. I think where there is a demand for it it will happen. Apple is extremely flexible. :) On 15 Apr 2010, at 11:27, Rob Lambert wrote: I agree. Only time will tell, of course. Who better to train people on their products than Apple themselves? I haven't used it, but I do like their one-to-one service, and my hope is they've set aside some staff that have been trained in VoiceOver for us. If not, they should. On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 3:24 AM, marie Howarth marie.jane2...@gmail.com wrote: I think it all depends on the user and their attitude too. An individual may hear about macs on a podcast or know of another user with a mac who is also VI, and take themselves off to the Apple store. In manchester, I know due to myself and a few other VI customers, most of the staff in the store are highly familiar with voice over. As for training, I think its coming from Apple in the near future. On 15 Apr 2010, at 10:54, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote: I'd very much doubt it Rob. I don't know what it's like in other countries, but here in Ireland most of the trainers are actually sighted. Macs haven't penetrated the mainstream userbase to the same extent as windows-based Pcs. Consequently the level of knowledge among the trainers on the actual OS itself (not including VO) is virtually non existent. The fact that the trainers would have to go and learn an entirely new platform, and then educate themselves in a new style of assistive technology makes it pretty certain that the majority of blind users will be stuck with Jaws and other badly implemented screenreaders for the foreseeable future. It's sad, but in my opinion true that this is the case. Dónal From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Lambert Sent: 15 April 2010 10:47 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Who here thinks we'll see the Mac replacing PCs in AT training offices? On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:43 AM, Joe Plummer joeplum...@tds.net wrote: For other A T you can run boot camp or virtual windows to use them. Sign, Joe Plummer ( JP ) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010
Non-US people buying a Mac in the US: Warning.
Hi all, I intended to post this months ago and forgot. On a trip to the States back in January I decided to take advantage of the excellent exchange rate and buy a 13 MBP. I saved a fortune I assure you. However, on returning home I discovered something I wasn't previously aware of. The wireless card in the US models is actually configured differently from those sold in Europe. The reason is this. FCC regulations in the States means that wireless routers only broadcast on channels 1-11. In Europe, we can broadcast on channels 1-13. So, wireless cards on Mac machines purchased in the US are only set up to operate on channels 1-11. All of my routers were configured to broadcast on channel 13, so my nice shiny new machine purchased in the US didn't see any of my routers. It was a very simple fix to adjust the channels downwards, and all is now fine. However if you go to, say a public WIFI area, or are using your machine on a network where you can't control the channel on which the wireless signal is broadcast, it might, just might, be a problem for you to purchase your machine in the US. As an aside, for anyone travelling to Europe (or Japan) with a US machine, if you can't pick up a wireless signal that others can, this could be a reason. This may, and probably will, affect only a few people but I pass it on for what it's worth. Cheers Dónal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Non-US people buying a Mac in the US: Warning.
That's interesting. When my mac came to the US with me, I had no issues of this. my mac was set up on my friend's network in her home. Hmm, very interesting. On 15 Apr 2010, at 12:20, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote: Hi all, I intended to post this months ago and forgot. On a trip to the States back in January I decided to take advantage of the excellent exchange rate and buy a 13 MBP. I saved a fortune I assure you. However, on returning home I discovered something I wasn't previously aware of. The wireless card in the US models is actually configured differently from those sold in Europe. The reason is this. FCC regulations in the States means that wireless routers only broadcast on channels 1-11. In Europe, we can broadcast on channels 1-13. So, wireless cards on Mac machines purchased in the US are only set up to operate on channels 1-11. All of my routers were configured to broadcast on channel 13, so my nice shiny new machine purchased in the US didn't see any of my routers. It was a very simple fix to adjust the channels downwards, and all is now fine. However if you go to, say a public WIFI area, or are using your machine on a network where you can't control the channel on which the wireless signal is broadcast, it might, just might, be a problem for you to purchase your machine in the US. As an aside, for anyone travelling to Europe (or Japan) with a US machine, if you can't pick up a wireless signal that others can, this could be a reason. This may, and probably will, affect only a few people but I pass it on for what it's worth. Cheers Dónal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: What do you think?
here's my take on it. 1) who cares, and 2 they started their accessibility solution with tiger, and that came out in 2004 if memory serves correctly. That would put their term ending 2007. snowy came out last august 2009 with a shiny new improvement in voiceover 3 and the potential three year term is done with. Sometimes it takes an unpleasantry like a law suite to push someone in to action, but with the advent of speaking ipods, iphones, as well as computers, I think that they are self-propelled and continuing to move in the right direction. On 2010-04-15, at 2:08 AM, Rob Lambert wrote: I just got wind, from a friend of mine, that the only reason Apple is accessible to us is because of a lawsuit by the NFB. The term of the agreement was for accessibility improvements for three years. Here's a question. First, what's your side of this ordeal? Second, who thinks Apple will keep up with the accessibility improvements after this three year term is up? I apologize for making smooth waters mirky, I just wanted to know what your take on this was. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
RE: Non-US people buying a Mac in the US: Warning.
Hi Marie, It's not a problem going from Europe to the US, the problem occurs when travelling the other way. The reason is that the range of channels which, by law, we're allowed to broadcast on is greater in Europe. So for example, if you have a router broadcasting on channel 13, a US Mac with a US wireless card would not pick it up because it is only configured (again by law) to receive channels 1-11. For the hackers among you, there is a fix involving the creation of a bootable usb-based Linux distro, booting your Mac using this, and using various tools to rewrite the PROM on the wireless card. All seemed like too much work to me to be honest so I just changed the configuration on my router smile Cheers Dónal -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of marie Howarth Sent: 15 April 2010 12:28 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Non-US people buying a Mac in the US: Warning. That's interesting. When my mac came to the US with me, I had no issues of this. my mac was set up on my friend's network in her home. Hmm, very interesting. On 15 Apr 2010, at 12:20, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote: Hi all, I intended to post this months ago and forgot. On a trip to the States back in January I decided to take advantage of the excellent exchange rate and buy a 13 MBP. I saved a fortune I assure you. However, on returning home I discovered something I wasn't previously aware of. The wireless card in the US models is actually configured differently from those sold in Europe. The reason is this. FCC regulations in the States means that wireless routers only broadcast on channels 1-11. In Europe, we can broadcast on channels 1-13. So, wireless cards on Mac machines purchased in the US are only set up to operate on channels 1-11. All of my routers were configured to broadcast on channel 13, so my nice shiny new machine purchased in the US didn't see any of my routers. It was a very simple fix to adjust the channels downwards, and all is now fine. However if you go to, say a public WIFI area, or are using your machine on a network where you can't control the channel on which the wireless signal is broadcast, it might, just might, be a problem for you to purchase your machine in the US. As an aside, for anyone travelling to Europe (or Japan) with a US machine, if you can't pick up a wireless signal that others can, this could be a reason. This may, and probably will, affect only a few people but I pass it on for what it's worth. Cheers Dónal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: What do you think?
Rob, we like worms. because of the shift in availability of screen readers, and a lot of them coming at no charge in the apple product line, this sort of thing comes up more often than would be liked. Some of the people that would like to keep their special status feel it necessary to make the waters mirky. We really don't mind providing our thoughts and perspectives on these sort of things. On 2010-04-15, at 3:31 AM, Rob Lambert wrote: I apologize if I opened a can of worms. On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 12:30 AM, Anne Robertson a...@anarchie.org.uk wrote: Hello Nic, Thank you for this post. You've just saved me from going on a major rant along the same lines. Cheers, Anne On Apr 15, 2010, at 9:14 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, I seriously doubt that is the case. Apple accessibility has been around for six years now, not three. I doubt NFB had anything to do with it. Apple is going to keep it up because they are committed. The article about the lawsuit doesn't actually mention Apple much. There is actually a very good point of view. Apple poses a threat to the NFB of taking over the technical market. This is why NFB did not sue Skype, but Apple. Agreement or not, I'm pretty sure they listened to users using Outspoken and such, rather than an organization that can't even review the product properly when it is out. Apple has done far more than anyone for accessibility improvements. Apple said they had something in store, and they sure did. I of course realize that it is a pretty serious statement. Of course, I am not particularly a fan of the NFB at all. Saying that, NFB has made some seriously inaccurate statements as well, far outweighing mine. NFB actually has no reason to sue Apple. What would they sue them for, exactly? Because their products are accessible, and they want everyone to pay more than what a Macbook costs for assistive technology? That wouldn't actually surprise me much. It's all about competition. If they think they're about to be kicked out, of course they would consider Apple a threat. Because Apple has done something Microsoft has not. All these things sound really twisted and disgusting to me. Apple can hardly be sued for their effort. Their lawsuit had to do with iTunes on the Windows side. Fair enough, but that is a pretty ridiculous suit if it really is based on accessibility. That is not the case, however, as there are plenty of other useful programs for PCs that are not anywhere near as accessible as iTunes 9. And NFB doesn't care about that. Which, again, leads me to believe that, because NFB is scared of being kicked out, they do everything they can to stop people buying their product. That would make sense. Windows users rely on scripts all the time to use any application. I suggest you look through your jAWS folder to see what I mean. Have you even seen just the download size of a JAWS installation? It's outrageous. People who moan about iTunes not being accessible just because the interface accidentally broke, just need to use scripts like they do for everything else. I'm surprised that wasn't their first complaint. JAWS, or just Windows in general, isn't even that stable. If JAWS crashes, it's stupidly difficult most of the time to reload the product. Even if you manage to do so, you will probably run into the screen not being read correctly when reading list boxes or with the cursor. Or, the worst-case scenario. You have to uninstall JAWS 11 after attempting to install Video Intercept, reinstall JAWS 10, install VIdeo Intercept, uninstall JAWS 10 then reinstall JAWS 11. Maybe I'm slamming the NFB a bit, but really, they need a kick in the ass. I'm just happy the Danish blindness organizations are not this corrupt and twisted, and they actually review fairly and take a proper look at what a company offers before suing them. I'll always be negative about the NFB, though I am actually being neutral when talking about the actual lawsuit itself. Say what you want to, it won't change my mind. Even if it is someone from NFB saying it. Some NFB people are great. Some do incredibly good reviews. Some don't. And in whole, I think the organization just sucks for filing unnecessary lawsuits for nothing. Maybe I'm going on a childish tantrum here, perhaps. But once in a while, you need to. A company is trying to provide great accessibility for their products, and they are sued because of one problem. iTunes is actually still useful on the Windows side, people. Quit your darn nitpicking. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 15, 2010, at 8:08 AM, Rob Lambert wrote: I just got wind, from a friend of mine, that the only reason Apple is accessible to us is because of a
Re: What do you think?
I'll just become ultra-synical here and say they love it when it doesn't interfear with there long standing computer related screen reader interests, but have been known in ast to praise something like the iphone for it's independant operating-system based speech while saying it's a bad thing to do on a computer. On 2010-04-15, at 4:22 AM, James Nash wrote: Although i've already posted on this, I just wanted to add that despite the criticism that has been levelled at NFB - and rightly, they have commended Apple's commitment to accesibility on the IPad. TC James, Lyn, Nash Twinny On 15 Apr 2010, at 09:16, Rob wrote: Thank you for your input, Nic. Much appreciated. :) Sent from my iPod On Apr 15, 2010, at 1:12 AM, Charlie Doremus giantdolp...@gmail.com wrote: I would also like to thank you, Nic, for saving my bacon. Like Anne I was going to take issue with NFB and others who love to gripe for the sake of griping. You saved me from being called tactless twice in the same week. Even though I don't use Jaws the idea of uninstall, install, uninstall, install, no matter what program, gives me the creeps. Sent from the iPad I wish I had On Apr 14, 2010, at 9:30 PM, Anne Robertson a...@anarchie.org.uk wrote: Hello Nic, Thank you for this post. You've just saved me from going on a major rant along the same lines. Cheers, Anne On Apr 15, 2010, at 9:14 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, I seriously doubt that is the case. Apple accessibility has been around for six years now, not three. I doubt NFB had anything to do with it. Apple is going to keep it up because they are committed. The article about the lawsuit doesn't actually mention Apple much. There is actually a very good point of view. Apple poses a threat to the NFB of taking over the technical market. This is why NFB did not sue Skype, but Apple. Agreement or not, I'm pretty sure they listened to users using Outspoken and such, rather than an organization that can't even review the product properly when it is out. Apple has done far more than anyone for accessibility improvements. Apple said they had something in store, and they sure did. I of course realize that it is a pretty serious statement. Of course, I am not particularly a fan of the NFB at all. Saying that, NFB has made some seriously inaccurate statements as well, far outweighing mine. NFB actually has no reason to sue Apple. What would they sue them for, exactly? Because their products are accessible, and they want everyone to pay more than what a Macbook costs for assistive technology? That wouldn't actually surprise me much. It's all about competition. If they think they're about to be kicked out, of course they would consider Apple a threat. Because Apple has done something Microsoft has not. All these things sound really twisted and disgusting to me. Apple can hardly be sued for their effort. Their lawsuit had to do with iTunes on the Windows side. Fair enough, but that is a pretty ridiculous suit if it really is based on accessibility. That is not the case, however, as there are plenty of other useful programs for PCs that are not anywhere near as accessible as iTunes 9. And NFB doesn't care about that. Which, again, leads me to believe that, because NFB is scared of being kicked out, they do everything they can to stop people buying their product. That would make sense. Windows users rely on scripts all the time to use any application. I suggest you look through your jAWS folder to see what I mean. Have you even seen just the download size of a JAWS installation? It's outrageous. People who moan about iTunes not being accessible just because the interface accidentally broke, just need to use scripts like they do for everything else. I'm surprised that wasn't their first complaint. JAWS, or just Windows in general, isn't even that stable. If JAWS crashes, it's stupidly difficult most of the time to reload the product. Even if you manage to do so, you will probably run into the screen not being read correctly when reading list boxes or with the cursor. Or, the worst-case scenario. You have to uninstall JAWS 11 after attempting to install Video Intercept, reinstall JAWS 10, install VIdeo Intercept, uninstall JAWS 10 then reinstall JAWS 11. Maybe I'm slamming the NFB a bit, but really, they need a kick in the ass. I'm just happy the Danish blindness organizations are not this corrupt and twisted, and they actually review fairly and take a proper look at what a company offers before suing them. I'll always be negative about the NFB, though I am actually being neutral when talking about the actual lawsuit itself. Say what you want to, it won't change my mind. Even if it is someone from NFB saying it. Some NFB people are great. Some do incredibly good reviews. Some don't. And in whole, I think the organization just sucks for filing
Re: new member
I don't know, most work environments are anal regarding what they want in the offices, I see apple taking a larger share, but the twirps who use windows especially for dhcp serving love their products with the ferver that they claim we do; and will contue to worship at the wishing well of willy. On 2010-04-15, at 5:46 AM, Rob Lambert wrote: Who here thinks we'll see the Mac replacing PCs in AT training offices? On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:43 AM, Joe Plummer joeplum...@tds.net wrote: For other A T you can run boot camp or virtual windows to use them. Sign, Joe Plummer ( JP ) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 5:46 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Hello Denise, I hope the word processor you are thinking of getting is iWork09, since MS Office for Mac is not accessible. As for Word documents of almost any level, TextEdit or Pages will read these just fine. I can't answer any of your other questions having never been a Windows user. Cheers, Anne On Apr 14, 2010, at 11:27 PM, denise avant wrote: hello, after having my iphone for six months now, i have really enjoyed my experience with apple. To that end, i am looking into purchasing a mac book pro. In fact, i called for some specs today and have set one with 4 gig of ram, and a 320 hard drive, 13 in screen. again this is just a possiblity. i will also have the word processor included. i will also have the one-to-one training as there is a nearby apple store in chicago. i am curious as to what those of you who own macs have done about your other windows based adatpive equipment, duxbury, openbook or k1000 and hw stream companion? how easy is it to move ms word 2003 2007 docs over to apple macs, still keep the formatting or move them back again? I thought of just keeping my netbook or sony machine for these purposes. there was also the idea given to me that i could have windows on one side and the mac on the other side. any thoughts on these questions would be apprciated. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: new member
In my case 8t was like Marie said, I heard about it in a podcast, and was just starting to shop for new equip. Right time righyt place, and access to fly one for an hour to see were the tipping points. On 2010-04-15, at 6:24 AM, marie Howarth wrote: I think it all depends on the user and their attitude too. An individual may hear about macs on a podcast or know of another user with a mac who is also VI, and take themselves off to the Apple store. In manchester, I know due to myself and a few other VI customers, most of the staff in the store are highly familiar with voice over. As for training, I think its coming from Apple in the near future. On 15 Apr 2010, at 10:54, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote: I'd very much doubt it Rob. I don't know what it's like in other countries, but here in Ireland most of the trainers are actually sighted. Macs haven't penetrated the mainstream userbase to the same extent as windows-based Pcs. Consequently the level of knowledge among the trainers on the actual OS itself (not including VO) is virtually non existent. The fact that the trainers would have to go and learn an entirely new platform, and then educate themselves in a new style of assistive technology makes it pretty certain that the majority of blind users will be stuck with Jaws and other badly implemented screenreaders for the foreseeable future. It's sad, but in my opinion true that this is the case. Dónal From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Lambert Sent: 15 April 2010 10:47 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Who here thinks we'll see the Mac replacing PCs in AT training offices? On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:43 AM, Joe Plummer joeplum...@tds.net wrote: For other A T you can run boot camp or virtual windows to use them. Sign, Joe Plummer ( JP ) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 5:46 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Hello Denise, I hope the word processor you are thinking of getting is iWork09, since MS Office for Mac is not accessible. As for Word documents of almost any level, TextEdit or Pages will read these just fine. I can't answer any of your other questions having never been a Windows user. Cheers, Anne On Apr 14, 2010, at 11:27 PM, denise avant wrote: hello, after having my iphone for six months now, i have really enjoyed my experience with apple. To that end, i am looking into purchasing a mac book pro. In fact, i called for some specs today and have set one with 4 gig of ram, and a 320 hard drive, 13 in screen. again this is just a possiblity. i will also have the word processor included. i will also have the one-to-one training as there is a nearby apple store in chicago. i am curious as to what those of you who own macs have done about your other windows based adatpive equipment, duxbury, openbook or k1000 and hw stream companion? how easy is it to move ms word 2003 2007 docs over to apple macs, still keep the formatting or move them back again? I thought of just keeping my netbook or sony machine for these purposes. there was also the idea given to me that i could have windows on one side and the mac on the other side. any thoughts on these questions would be apprciated. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You
Re: new member
Good news! I am so glad that people are waking up to apple! Olivia On Apr 15, 2010, at 7:02 AM, marie Howarth wrote: I've just done a little scouting around. And I was wrong. RNIB actually have offered training days for agencies, people with a VI and parents of children who are have VI children. They also list the IPhone on their accessible phones list. I guess the information has not filtered across to their organisation who carries out the support. So I guess they acknowledge the fact but don't shout about it. On 15 Apr 2010, at 11:46, Rob Lambert wrote: Very valid point, Ricardo. I agree whole heartedly. On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 3:43 AM, Ricardo Walker rwalker...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I think it has to start with agencies for the blind and the educational system. As an adult it's easy enough to just get up and go to an apple store, or have the money to pay for 1 on 1 training at said apple store. But a 12 year old not so much. I think younger people must be exposed to other options. It doesn't even have anything to do with how great Apple is. It's just creating a market where people can obtain access to the technology they need without selling their first born. lol. If anything, I think Apple has started to make makers of adaptive technology squirm a bit. It becomes harder for them to justified the cost of their products. On Apr 15, 2010, at 6:30 AM, marie Howarth wrote: I know in my local store, there are two designated VO trainers and other staff constantly tell me they have played with VO on varying products. I think where there is a demand for it it will happen. Apple is extremely flexible. :) On 15 Apr 2010, at 11:27, Rob Lambert wrote: I agree. Only time will tell, of course. Who better to train people on their products than Apple themselves? I haven't used it, but I do like their one-to-one service, and my hope is they've set aside some staff that have been trained in VoiceOver for us. If not, they should. On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 3:24 AM, marie Howarth marie.jane2...@gmail.com wrote: I think it all depends on the user and their attitude too. An individual may hear about macs on a podcast or know of another user with a mac who is also VI, and take themselves off to the Apple store. In manchester, I know due to myself and a few other VI customers, most of the staff in the store are highly familiar with voice over. As for training, I think its coming from Apple in the near future. On 15 Apr 2010, at 10:54, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote: I'd very much doubt it Rob. I don't know what it's like in other countries, but here in Ireland most of the trainers are actually sighted. Macs haven't penetrated the mainstream userbase to the same extent as windows-based Pcs. Consequently the level of knowledge among the trainers on the actual OS itself (not including VO) is virtually non existent. The fact that the trainers would have to go and learn an entirely new platform, and then educate themselves in a new style of assistive technology makes it pretty certain that the majority of blind users will be stuck with Jaws and other badly implemented screenreaders for the foreseeable future. It's sad, but in my opinion true that this is the case. Dónal From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Lambert Sent: 15 April 2010 10:47 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Who here thinks we'll see the Mac replacing PCs in AT training offices? On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:43 AM, Joe Plummer joeplum...@tds.net wrote: For other A T you can run boot camp or virtual windows to use them. Sign, Joe Plummer ( JP ) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 5:46 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Hello Denise, I hope the word processor you are thinking of getting is iWork09, since MS Office for Mac is not accessible. As for Word documents of almost any level, TextEdit or Pages will read these just fine. I can't answer any of your other questions having never been a Windows user. Cheers, Anne On Apr 14, 2010, at 11:27 PM, denise avant wrote: hello, after having my iphone for six months now, i have really enjoyed my experience with apple. To that end, i am looking into purchasing a mac book pro. In fact, i called for some specs today and have set one with 4 gig of ram, and a 320 hard drive, 13 in screen. again this is just a possiblity. i will also have the word processor included. i will also have the one-to-one training as there is a nearby apple store in chicago. i am curious as to what those of you who own macs have done about your other windows based adatpive equipment, duxbury, openbook or
Re: Non-US people buying a Mac in the US: Warning.
Thanks for this information! I may be taing a trip to London, so this is great to know! I continue to be impressed with all the global support out there for voiceover, and the increasing number of VO users world wide! This is great! Olivia On Apr 15, 2010, at 7:20 AM, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote: Hi all, I intended to post this months ago and forgot. On a trip to the States back in January I decided to take advantage of the excellent exchange rate and buy a 13 MBP. I saved a fortune I assure you. However, on returning home I discovered something I wasn't previously aware of. The wireless card in the US models is actually configured differently from those sold in Europe. The reason is this. FCC regulations in the States means that wireless routers only broadcast on channels 1-11. In Europe, we can broadcast on channels 1-13. So, wireless cards on Mac machines purchased in the US are only set up to operate on channels 1-11. All of my routers were configured to broadcast on channel 13, so my nice shiny new machine purchased in the US didn't see any of my routers. It was a very simple fix to adjust the channels downwards, and all is now fine. However if you go to, say a public WIFI area, or are using your machine on a network where you can't control the channel on which the wireless signal is broadcast, it might, just might, be a problem for you to purchase your machine in the US. As an aside, for anyone travelling to Europe (or Japan) with a US machine, if you can't pick up a wireless signal that others can, this could be a reason. This may, and probably will, affect only a few people but I pass it on for what it's worth. Cheers Dónal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: new member
That's one of the things I love about apple. My hero, Steve Jobs, once said, innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower and he is correct. Interesting that you have two dedicated VO trainers in your apple store in the UK. No one at my local store here in the US is a dedicated VO trainer, though several staff have played with the product that I've come across. Olivia On Apr 15, 2010, at 6:31 AM, Rob Lambert wrote: That's what I love about Apple. :) On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 3:30 AM, marie Howarth marie.jane2...@gmail.com wrote: I know in my local store, there are two designated VO trainers and other staff constantly tell me they have played with VO on varying products. I think where there is a demand for it it will happen. Apple is extremely flexible. :) On 15 Apr 2010, at 11:27, Rob Lambert wrote: I agree. Only time will tell, of course. Who better to train people on their products than Apple themselves? I haven't used it, but I do like their one-to-one service, and my hope is they've set aside some staff that have been trained in VoiceOver for us. If not, they should. On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 3:24 AM, marie Howarth marie.jane2...@gmail.com wrote: I think it all depends on the user and their attitude too. An individual may hear about macs on a podcast or know of another user with a mac who is also VI, and take themselves off to the Apple store. In manchester, I know due to myself and a few other VI customers, most of the staff in the store are highly familiar with voice over. As for training, I think its coming from Apple in the near future. On 15 Apr 2010, at 10:54, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote: I'd very much doubt it Rob. I don't know what it's like in other countries, but here in Ireland most of the trainers are actually sighted. Macs haven't penetrated the mainstream userbase to the same extent as windows-based Pcs. Consequently the level of knowledge among the trainers on the actual OS itself (not including VO) is virtually non existent. The fact that the trainers would have to go and learn an entirely new platform, and then educate themselves in a new style of assistive technology makes it pretty certain that the majority of blind users will be stuck with Jaws and other badly implemented screenreaders for the foreseeable future. It's sad, but in my opinion true that this is the case. Dónal From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Lambert Sent: 15 April 2010 10:47 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Who here thinks we'll see the Mac replacing PCs in AT training offices? On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:43 AM, Joe Plummer joeplum...@tds.net wrote: For other A T you can run boot camp or virtual windows to use them. Sign, Joe Plummer ( JP ) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 5:46 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Hello Denise, I hope the word processor you are thinking of getting is iWork09, since MS Office for Mac is not accessible. As for Word documents of almost any level, TextEdit or Pages will read these just fine. I can't answer any of your other questions having never been a Windows user. Cheers, Anne On Apr 14, 2010, at 11:27 PM, denise avant wrote: hello, after having my iphone for six months now, i have really enjoyed my experience with apple. To that end, i am looking into purchasing a mac book pro. In fact, i called for some specs today and have set one with 4 gig of ram, and a 320 hard drive, 13 in screen. again this is just a possiblity. i will also have the word processor included. i will also have the one-to-one training as there is a nearby apple store in chicago. i am curious as to what those of you who own macs have done about your other windows based adatpive equipment, duxbury, openbook or k1000 and hw stream companion? how easy is it to move ms word 2003 2007 docs over to apple macs, still keep the formatting or move them back again? I thought of just keeping my netbook or sony machine for these purposes. there was also the idea given to me that i could have windows on one side and the mac on the other side. any thoughts on these questions would be apprciated. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to
Re: new member
I agree. I'd still stick with mac, but being able to push a button on a windows machine would create some consumer choice, which is always a good thing :) On Apr 15, 2010, at 6:10 AM, Rob Lambert wrote: My theory is this: The more Mac users, the better. It will drive the other guys to come up with the same thing for their system, where you could walk up to a Windows PC, and press a button, and it starts talking. Narrator doesn't count. LOL On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 3:07 AM, Dónal Fitzpatrick dfitz...@computing.dcu.ie wrote: Ricardo I am delighted to hear that's the case, however here I can't see it happening for quite some time. Only the techie people are using iPhones, and even then it's happening by word-of-mouth. Blind people using the Mac is almost unheard of over here. Bring on the revolution! smile From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ricardo Walker Sent: 15 April 2010 11:02 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Hi Donald, I disagree. I think economics will come in to play in the next 3 to 5 years. The cost of getting a Mac will justify it being looked into as a viable option for agencies. There are more blind Mac users every day. I live in New York City and got my first experience to a Mac at a course in intro to the Mac and voiceover as well as garageband I took in the summer of 2008 at the Lighthouse. I assume such courses will catch on in the future. On Apr 15, 2010, at 5:54 AM, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote: I'd very much doubt it Rob. I don't know what it's like in other countries, but here in Ireland most of the trainers are actually sighted. Macs haven't penetrated the mainstream userbase to the same extent as windows-based Pcs. Consequently the level of knowledge among the trainers on the actual OS itself (not including VO) is virtually non existent. The fact that the trainers would have to go and learn an entirely new platform, and then educate themselves in a new style of assistive technology makes it pretty certain that the majority of blind users will be stuck with Jaws and other badly implemented screenreaders for the foreseeable future. It's sad, but in my opinion true that this is the case. Dónal From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Lambert Sent: 15 April 2010 10:47 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Who here thinks we'll see the Mac replacing PCs in AT training offices? On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:43 AM, Joe Plummer joeplum...@tds.net wrote: For other A T you can run boot camp or virtual windows to use them. Sign, Joe Plummer ( JP ) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 5:46 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Hello Denise, I hope the word processor you are thinking of getting is iWork09, since MS Office for Mac is not accessible. As for Word documents of almost any level, TextEdit or Pages will read these just fine. I can't answer any of your other questions having never been a Windows user. Cheers, Anne On Apr 14, 2010, at 11:27 PM, denise avant wrote: hello, after having my iphone for six months now, i have really enjoyed my experience with apple. To that end, i am looking into purchasing a mac book pro. In fact, i called for some specs today and have set one with 4 gig of ram, and a 320 hard drive, 13 in screen. again this is just a possiblity. i will also have the word processor included. i will also have the one-to-one training as there is a nearby apple store in chicago. i am curious as to what those of you who own macs have done about your other windows based adatpive equipment, duxbury, openbook or k1000 and hw stream companion? how easy is it to move ms word 2003 2007 docs over to apple macs, still keep the formatting or move them back again? I thought of just keeping my netbook or sony machine for these purposes. there was also the idea given to me that i could have windows on one side and the mac on the other side. any thoughts on these questions would be apprciated. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
Re: new member
I'm optomistic that this will slowly become the case as companies and agencies gradually realize apple's full potential. Olivia On Apr 15, 2010, at 5:46 AM, Rob Lambert wrote: Who here thinks we'll see the Mac replacing PCs in AT training offices? On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:43 AM, Joe Plummer joeplum...@tds.net wrote: For other A T you can run boot camp or virtual windows to use them. Sign, Joe Plummer ( JP ) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 5:46 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Hello Denise, I hope the word processor you are thinking of getting is iWork09, since MS Office for Mac is not accessible. As for Word documents of almost any level, TextEdit or Pages will read these just fine. I can't answer any of your other questions having never been a Windows user. Cheers, Anne On Apr 14, 2010, at 11:27 PM, denise avant wrote: hello, after having my iphone for six months now, i have really enjoyed my experience with apple. To that end, i am looking into purchasing a mac book pro. In fact, i called for some specs today and have set one with 4 gig of ram, and a 320 hard drive, 13 in screen. again this is just a possiblity. i will also have the word processor included. i will also have the one-to-one training as there is a nearby apple store in chicago. i am curious as to what those of you who own macs have done about your other windows based adatpive equipment, duxbury, openbook or k1000 and hw stream companion? how easy is it to move ms word 2003 2007 docs over to apple macs, still keep the formatting or move them back again? I thought of just keeping my netbook or sony machine for these purposes. there was also the idea given to me that i could have windows on one side and the mac on the other side. any thoughts on these questions would be apprciated. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: What do you think?
I just wanted to agree with both of you here. I am certainly OK with Office, though I haven't used it in a few years because I don't own a windows machine and an outragiously priced screen reader. I achieve the same functionality with my mac, and I hope that eventually, office for the mac will become accessible, but I won't go back to windows, myself unless I am forced to use a PC at work, and, if this is the case, I really hope someone will shell out the price for jaws, or the like. Olivia On Apr 15, 2010, at 5:31 AM, marie Howarth wrote: I also want to thank Nick for his lengthy response, you said almost everything I would have said. I think the confusion lies with the ITunes lawsuit. Apple did have a few years without accessibility I believe. Outspoken was discontinued and voice over was brought in and I believe this was due to a state in the US wanting macs for all of its schools during the early 2000s. However, there was no solution for visually impaired users and their was a federal legal issue with the disability discrimination act. Apple said that although they didn't have anything at that present time, they assured the government that something was coming. And indeed they did. Anyone who thinks Apple will just stop progressing with voice over really needs their head testing. If it was a pure ploy to quiet the legislation from suing the company for breaching the DDA, [or whatever it is called in the US], then they clearly have not followed anything Apple has done since Tiger. Not only has it kept developing voice over for the mac, but it has introduced a fully functional built in screen reader on all of its touch devices when it has been technically possible. The IPod nanos, the IPhone, the touch, shuffle and now the IPad all have voice over. The fact they not only updated their operating system last august for mac and implemented new features with the rotor and such, they continually are developing the IPhone OS too. Why would a company plough not only financial revenue but technical expertise to just forget it later on. It doesn't make sense. Every day I hear another person switching to the mac and I honestly feel relief for that person. the days of turning my computer on and it just working makes life easier. As I said in another post on this list, while writing my CV, someone who was helping me from an agency pointed out that I should be adequate in MS office. How? When MS isn't adequate for me as a user? I get a lot of businesses supposedly use MS but gradually the market will shift and with more third party developers seeing the potential of the mac platform, it will be definitely a two horse race. I think its tragic we live in a world where visually impaired people are expected to use windows, and expected to use it solely. Granted, some of you need windows for your jobs and your school stuff, but at this moment I am not forced to retreat to an operating system that crashed halfway through writing essays or researching. Here in the UK, the university system is slowly seeing the advantage for students, if they choose to to use a mac. And really, in the vast technology era we live in, it should be about what makes us as individuals more productive. And Apple's continual production of voice over and giving us more features, fixing bugs when we request it, shows how dedicated they are to all of their users, not just the mainstream market. And I just did a very long post lol On 15 Apr 2010, at 09:47, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, *grins* Sure do. I've got a coffee thermos next to me in my classroom. I'm supposed to be diligently taking notes, but really, I'm writing blog posts, tweeting, on seven messaging accounts, and browsing the web while taking notes. That said, James has a point here. NFB did retract their statement, although their statement still was really bias. It said they wanted to open it up for dialog, yet they continue to trash Apple in the same post. It just saddens me why this has to happen. I love what Apple has done, and I know they'll keep it up. I've never sent so many text messages from my iPhone, never enjoyed a computer this much as a Mac, and had this much fun. That's because I don't have to worry about any third-party installed screen reading access software crashing, not starting up, giving me script errors, and so-on. I've really found the accessibility team, regardless of my issue, extremely responsive. The longest time I have waited for a reply to either a suggestion, comment or issue is a full day. Not longer than that. They've replied to all my e-mails except one, and I have sent quite a few of them. But despite that, the feature I asked for was implemented. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 15, 2010, at 10:38
Re: new member
same thing for me too. I wanted a nano when I heard the accessibility was available there. In order to run a nano however, I would need to update my Screen reader. We all know the price range I was looking at and to boot I needed a new laptop. So when I heard a podcast about the nano and discovered the demo was being done with a mac and by a blind mac user at that, my interest grew. I knew of voice over, and indeed, had trialed it back in 2005 but the people I was trialling with were not familiar with the OS themselves and were doing the whole thing from a manual. I was frustrated and was glad to get back to the windows side. But when I entered the Apple store, after much research about voice over, I put my hands on the mac and I knew this was extremely possible. Yes, I wasn't an early adopter but I've been a faithful mac user since October 2008 and I don't touch my ancient windows machine ever now. It's here, but simply because no one I know wants it. lol I think the world of the web is helping more and more, yes, adult users become familiar with the options and that is a great thing. after all, whatever works for you as an individual is what is best. On 15 Apr 2010, at 12:55, Kaare Dehard wrote: In my case 8t was like Marie said, I heard about it in a podcast, and was just starting to shop for new equip. Right time righyt place, and access to fly one for an hour to see were the tipping points. On 2010-04-15, at 6:24 AM, marie Howarth wrote: I think it all depends on the user and their attitude too. An individual may hear about macs on a podcast or know of another user with a mac who is also VI, and take themselves off to the Apple store. In manchester, I know due to myself and a few other VI customers, most of the staff in the store are highly familiar with voice over. As for training, I think its coming from Apple in the near future. On 15 Apr 2010, at 10:54, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote: I'd very much doubt it Rob. I don't know what it's like in other countries, but here in Ireland most of the trainers are actually sighted. Macs haven't penetrated the mainstream userbase to the same extent as windows-based Pcs. Consequently the level of knowledge among the trainers on the actual OS itself (not including VO) is virtually non existent. The fact that the trainers would have to go and learn an entirely new platform, and then educate themselves in a new style of assistive technology makes it pretty certain that the majority of blind users will be stuck with Jaws and other badly implemented screenreaders for the foreseeable future. It's sad, but in my opinion true that this is the case. Dónal From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Lambert Sent: 15 April 2010 10:47 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Who here thinks we'll see the Mac replacing PCs in AT training offices? On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:43 AM, Joe Plummer joeplum...@tds.net wrote: For other A T you can run boot camp or virtual windows to use them. Sign, Joe Plummer ( JP ) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 5:46 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Hello Denise, I hope the word processor you are thinking of getting is iWork09, since MS Office for Mac is not accessible. As for Word documents of almost any level, TextEdit or Pages will read these just fine. I can't answer any of your other questions having never been a Windows user. Cheers, Anne On Apr 14, 2010, at 11:27 PM, denise avant wrote: hello, after having my iphone for six months now, i have really enjoyed my experience with apple. To that end, i am looking into purchasing a mac book pro. In fact, i called for some specs today and have set one with 4 gig of ram, and a 320 hard drive, 13 in screen. again this is just a possiblity. i will also have the word processor included. i will also have the one-to-one training as there is a nearby apple store in chicago. i am curious as to what those of you who own macs have done about your other windows based adatpive equipment, duxbury, openbook or k1000 and hw stream companion? how easy is it to move ms word 2003 2007 docs over to apple macs, still keep the formatting or move them back again? I thought of just keeping my netbook or sony machine for these purposes. there was also the idea given to me that i could have windows on one side and the mac on the other side. any thoughts on these questions would be apprciated. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
Re: What do you think?
I agree. Apple truly does make productivity a pleasure! Olivia On Apr 15, 2010, at 4:47 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, *grins* Sure do. I've got a coffee thermos next to me in my classroom. I'm supposed to be diligently taking notes, but really, I'm writing blog posts, tweeting, on seven messaging accounts, and browsing the web while taking notes. That said, James has a point here. NFB did retract their statement, although their statement still was really bias. It said they wanted to open it up for dialog, yet they continue to trash Apple in the same post. It just saddens me why this has to happen. I love what Apple has done, and I know they'll keep it up. I've never sent so many text messages from my iPhone, never enjoyed a computer this much as a Mac, and had this much fun. That's because I don't have to worry about any third-party installed screen reading access software crashing, not starting up, giving me script errors, and so-on. I've really found the accessibility team, regardless of my issue, extremely responsive. The longest time I have waited for a reply to either a suggestion, comment or issue is a full day. Not longer than that. They've replied to all my e-mails except one, and I have sent quite a few of them. But despite that, the feature I asked for was implemented. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 15, 2010, at 10:38 AM, Cody wrote: Is laughing We got early morning coffee drinkers I see, this list is really jumpin - Original Message - From: Rob rmlambert1...@gmail.com To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 4:27 AM Subject: Re: What do you think? I saw they did and was surprised, and happy, to see that. Sent from my iPod On Apr 15, 2010, at 1:22 AM, James Nash james.austin1...@googlemail.com wrote: Although i've already posted on this, I just wanted to add that despite the criticism that has been levelled at NFB - and rightly, they have commended Apple's commitment to accesibility on the IPad. TC James, Lyn, Nash Twinny On 15 Apr 2010, at 09:16, Rob wrote: Thank you for your input, Nic. Much appreciated. :) Sent from my iPod On Apr 15, 2010, at 1:12 AM, Charlie Doremus giantdolp...@gmail.com wrote: I would also like to thank you, Nic, for saving my bacon. Like Anne I was going to take issue with NFB and others who love to gripe for the sake of griping. You saved me from being called tactless twice in the same week. Even though I don't use Jaws the idea of uninstall, install, uninstall, install, no matter what program, gives me the creeps. Sent from the iPad I wish I had On Apr 14, 2010, at 9:30 PM, Anne Robertson a...@anarchie.org.uk wrote: Hello Nic, Thank you for this post. You've just saved me from going on a major rant along the same lines. Cheers, Anne On Apr 15, 2010, at 9:14 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, I seriously doubt that is the case. Apple accessibility has been around for six years now, not three. I doubt NFB had anything to do with it. Apple is going to keep it up because they are committed. The article about the lawsuit doesn't actually mention Apple much. There is actually a very good point of view. Apple poses a threat to the NFB of taking over the technical market. This is why NFB did not sue Skype, but Apple. Agreement or not, I'm pretty sure they listened to users using Outspoken and such, rather than an organization that can't even review the product properly when it is out. Apple has done far more than anyone for accessibility improvements. Apple said they had something in store, and they sure did. I of course realize that it is a pretty serious statement. Of course, I am not particularly a fan of the NFB at all. Saying that, NFB has made some seriously inaccurate statements as well, far outweighing mine. NFB actually has no reason to sue Apple. What would they sue them for, exactly? Because their products are accessible, and they want everyone to pay more than what a Macbook costs for assistive technology? That wouldn't actually surprise me much. It's all about competition. If they think they're about to be kicked out, of course they would consider Apple a threat. Because Apple has done something Microsoft has not. All these things sound really twisted and disgusting to me. Apple can hardly be sued for their effort. Their lawsuit had to do with iTunes on the Windows side. Fair enough, but that is a pretty ridiculous suit if it really is based on accessibility. That is not the case, however, as there are plenty of other useful programs for PCs that are not anywhere near as accessible as iTunes 9. And NFB doesn't care about that. Which, again, leads me to believe that, because NFB is scared of being
Re: What do you think?
I'm glad they finally have woken up, though I honestly don't personally care what they think. I love how the praise apple when it's convenient for them to do so, though. I read an article about VO they wrote a while back which just made my blood boil! I don't know if they've written an article on the mac platform since that one? Olivia On Apr 15, 2010, at 4:22 AM, James Nash wrote: Although i've already posted on this, I just wanted to add that despite the criticism that has been levelled at NFB - and rightly, they have commended Apple's commitment to accesibility on the IPad. TC James, Lyn, Nash Twinny On 15 Apr 2010, at 09:16, Rob wrote: Thank you for your input, Nic. Much appreciated. :) Sent from my iPod On Apr 15, 2010, at 1:12 AM, Charlie Doremus giantdolp...@gmail.com wrote: I would also like to thank you, Nic, for saving my bacon. Like Anne I was going to take issue with NFB and others who love to gripe for the sake of griping. You saved me from being called tactless twice in the same week. Even though I don't use Jaws the idea of uninstall, install, uninstall, install, no matter what program, gives me the creeps. Sent from the iPad I wish I had On Apr 14, 2010, at 9:30 PM, Anne Robertson a...@anarchie.org.uk wrote: Hello Nic, Thank you for this post. You've just saved me from going on a major rant along the same lines. Cheers, Anne On Apr 15, 2010, at 9:14 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, I seriously doubt that is the case. Apple accessibility has been around for six years now, not three. I doubt NFB had anything to do with it. Apple is going to keep it up because they are committed. The article about the lawsuit doesn't actually mention Apple much. There is actually a very good point of view. Apple poses a threat to the NFB of taking over the technical market. This is why NFB did not sue Skype, but Apple. Agreement or not, I'm pretty sure they listened to users using Outspoken and such, rather than an organization that can't even review the product properly when it is out. Apple has done far more than anyone for accessibility improvements. Apple said they had something in store, and they sure did. I of course realize that it is a pretty serious statement. Of course, I am not particularly a fan of the NFB at all. Saying that, NFB has made some seriously inaccurate statements as well, far outweighing mine. NFB actually has no reason to sue Apple. What would they sue them for, exactly? Because their products are accessible, and they want everyone to pay more than what a Macbook costs for assistive technology? That wouldn't actually surprise me much. It's all about competition. If they think they're about to be kicked out, of course they would consider Apple a threat. Because Apple has done something Microsoft has not. All these things sound really twisted and disgusting to me. Apple can hardly be sued for their effort. Their lawsuit had to do with iTunes on the Windows side. Fair enough, but that is a pretty ridiculous suit if it really is based on accessibility. That is not the case, however, as there are plenty of other useful programs for PCs that are not anywhere near as accessible as iTunes 9. And NFB doesn't care about that. Which, again, leads me to believe that, because NFB is scared of being kicked out, they do everything they can to stop people buying their product. That would make sense. Windows users rely on scripts all the time to use any application. I suggest you look through your jAWS folder to see what I mean. Have you even seen just the download size of a JAWS installation? It's outrageous. People who moan about iTunes not being accessible just because the interface accidentally broke, just need to use scripts like they do for everything else. I'm surprised that wasn't their first complaint. JAWS, or just Windows in general, isn't even that stable. If JAWS crashes, it's stupidly difficult most of the time to reload the product. Even if you manage to do so, you will probably run into the screen not being read correctly when reading list boxes or with the cursor. Or, the worst-case scenario. You have to uninstall JAWS 11 after attempting to install Video Intercept, reinstall JAWS 10, install VIdeo Intercept, uninstall JAWS 10 then reinstall JAWS 11. Maybe I'm slamming the NFB a bit, but really, they need a kick in the ass. I'm just happy the Danish blindness organizations are not this corrupt and twisted, and they actually review fairly and take a proper look at what a company offers before suing them. I'll always be negative about the NFB, though I am actually being neutral when talking about the actual lawsuit itself. Say what you want to, it won't change my mind. Even if it is someone from NFB saying it. Some NFB people are great. Some do incredibly good reviews. Some don't. And in whole, I think the organization
Re: What do you think?
LOL! that made me feel better. I don't subscribe to either blindness organization, partly because I don't like their stance on apple, and partly just because I don't personally feel that either reprisents me as a blind individual. Olivia On Apr 15, 2010, at 4:14 AM, Cody wrote: lol, that made me chuckle a bit. nfb have so many issues and I feel bad for the newly blinded who don't know any better, but they can't f those who've been blind over. I walked out of the training center in mississippi giving them the finger. - Original Message - From: Charlie Doremus giantdolp...@gmail.com To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 4:12 AM Subject: Re: What do you think? I would also like to thank you, Nic, for saving my bacon. Like Anne I was going to take issue with NFB and others who love to gripe for the sake of griping. You saved me from being called tactless twice in the same week. Even though I don't use Jaws the idea of uninstall, install, uninstall, install, no matter what program, gives me the creeps. Sent from the iPad I wish I had On Apr 14, 2010, at 9:30 PM, Anne Robertson a...@anarchie.org.uk wrote: Hello Nic, Thank you for this post. You've just saved me from going on a major rant along the same lines. Cheers, Anne On Apr 15, 2010, at 9:14 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, I seriously doubt that is the case. Apple accessibility has been around for six years now, not three. I doubt NFB had anything to do with it. Apple is going to keep it up because they are committed. The article about the lawsuit doesn't actually mention Apple much. There is actually a very good point of view. Apple poses a threat to the NFB of taking over the technical market. This is why NFB did not sue Skype, but Apple. Agreement or not, I'm pretty sure they listened to users using Outspoken and such, rather than an organization that can't even review the product properly when it is out. Apple has done far more than anyone for accessibility improvements. Apple said they had something in store, and they sure did. I of course realize that it is a pretty serious statement. Of course, I am not particularly a fan of the NFB at all. Saying that, NFB has made some seriously inaccurate statements as well, far outweighing mine. NFB actually has no reason to sue Apple. What would they sue them for, exactly? Because their products are accessible, and they want everyone to pay more than what a Macbook costs for assistive technology? That wouldn't actually surprise me much. It's all about competition. If they think they're about to be kicked out, of course they would consider Apple a threat. Because Apple has done something Microsoft has not. All these things sound really twisted and disgusting to me. Apple can hardly be sued for their effort. Their lawsuit had to do with iTunes on the Windows side. Fair enough, but that is a pretty ridiculous suit if it really is based on accessibility. That is not the case, however, as there are plenty of other useful programs for PCs that are not anywhere near as accessible as iTunes 9. And NFB doesn't care about that. Which, again, leads me to believe that, because NFB is scared of being kicked out, they do everything they can to stop people buying their product. That would make sense. Windows users rely on scripts all the time to use any application. I suggest you look through your jAWS folder to see what I mean. Have you even seen just the download size of a JAWS installation? It's outrageous. People who moan about iTunes not being accessible just because the interface accidentally broke, just need to use scripts like they do for everything else. I'm surprised that wasn't their first complaint. JAWS, or just Windows in general, isn't even that stable. If JAWS crashes, it's stupidly difficult most of the time to reload the product. Even if you manage to do so, you will probably run into the screen not being read correctly when reading list boxes or with the cursor. Or, the worst-case scenario. You have to uninstall JAWS 11 after attempting to install Video Intercept, reinstall JAWS 10, install VIdeo Intercept, uninstall JAWS 10 then reinstall JAWS 11. Maybe I'm slamming the NFB a bit, but really, they need a kick in the ass. I'm just happy the Danish blindness organizations are not this corrupt and twisted, and they actually review fairly and take a proper look at what a company offers before suing them. I'll always be negative about the NFB, though I am actually being neutral when talking about the actual lawsuit itself. Say what you want to, it won't change my mind. Even if it is someone from NFB saying it. Some NFB people are great. Some do incredibly good reviews. Some don't. And in whole, I think the organization just sucks for filing unnecessary lawsuits for nothing. Maybe I'm going on a childish tantrum
Re: What do you think?
This was a suitregarding iTunes, and I am sure that apple will keep up with accessibility, because they truly are committed to making products work for everyone! I'd also, personally, take anything the NFB says with a grain of salt and agree with others that they feel threatened by apple because apple represents a potential threat to venders like freedom scientific. Olivia On Apr 15, 2010, at 2:08 AM, Rob Lambert wrote: I just got wind, from a friend of mine, that the only reason Apple is accessible to us is because of a lawsuit by the NFB. The term of the agreement was for accessibility improvements for three years. Here's a question. First, what's your side of this ordeal? Second, who thinks Apple will keep up with the accessibility improvements after this three year term is up? I apologize for making smooth waters mirky, I just wanted to know what your take on this was. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: What do you think?
I know exactly what you mean Olivia. Luckily for me, I never was really exposed to any of the blindness organisations and only dealing with one now to get support for housing. I do have an employment advisor with them but if she keeps telling me I should use windows, I will conveniently not listen. I always have and always will play by my own rules. I know what works for me and I know what doesn't. I won't be told what works for me as a blind individual by any organisation who thinks they know what is best. Since being an apple person as you put it, :) I have found other VI people I can relate too. People who seem driven and innovative and have a thirst and determination about life. It's refreshing. My only blind experience I have had in the UK was not a pleasant one and it made me grateful I had always gone to mainstream education. Harsh as that may sound, it's my opinion. :) but on these various lists, its awesome to meet VI people with the same thirst and determination to be far away from the stereotype most out there would love to fit us into. On 15 Apr 2010, at 13:32, olivia norman wrote: I completely agree, and on these various mac lists, I have found a population of blind people all over the world that I truly feel at home with, apple people. :) Many of us don't belong to the conventional organizations, play by our own rules to get things done, and just have a love for these wonderful products. This is really a great group of people, and is something I haven't really found until now, a segment of the blindness community where I fit. Olivia On Apr 15, 2010, at 3:36 AM, Cody wrote: Takes a deep breath. Oh yeah, like the damn nfb cares. if they cared so much, then why don't training centers demo macs. It's call money. I hate the * nfb. - Original Message - From: Anne Robertson a...@anarchie.org.uk To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 3:30 AM Subject: Re: What do you think? Hello Nic, Thank you for this post. You've just saved me from going on a major rant along the same lines. Cheers, Anne On Apr 15, 2010, at 9:14 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, I seriously doubt that is the case. Apple accessibility has been around for six years now, not three. I doubt NFB had anything to do with it. Apple is going to keep it up because they are committed. The article about the lawsuit doesn't actually mention Apple much. There is actually a very good point of view. Apple poses a threat to the NFB of taking over the technical market. This is why NFB did not sue Skype, but Apple. Agreement or not, I'm pretty sure they listened to users using Outspoken and such, rather than an organization that can't even review the product properly when it is out. Apple has done far more than anyone for accessibility improvements. Apple said they had something in store, and they sure did. I of course realize that it is a pretty serious statement. Of course, I am not particularly a fan of the NFB at all. Saying that, NFB has made some seriously inaccurate statements as well, far outweighing mine. NFB actually has no reason to sue Apple. What would they sue them for, exactly? Because their products are accessible, and they want everyone to pay more than what a Macbook costs for assistive technology? That wouldn't actually surprise me much. It's all about competition. If they think they're about to be kicked out, of course they would consider Apple a threat. Because Apple has done something Microsoft has not. All these things sound really twisted and disgusting to me. Apple can hardly be sued for their effort. Their lawsuit had to do with iTunes on the Windows side. Fair enough, but that is a pretty ridiculous suit if it really is based on accessibility. That is not the case, however, as there are plenty of other useful programs for PCs that are not anywhere near as accessible as iTunes 9. And NFB doesn't care about that. Which, again, leads me to believe that, because NFB is scared of being kicked out, they do everything they can to stop people buying their product. That would make sense. Windows users rely on scripts all the time to use any application. I suggest you look through your jAWS folder to see what I mean. Have you even seen just the download size of a JAWS installation? It's outrageous. People who moan about iTunes not being accessible just because the interface accidentally broke, just need to use scripts like they do for everything else. I'm surprised that wasn't their first complaint. JAWS, or just Windows in general, isn't even that stable. If JAWS crashes, it's stupidly difficult most of the time to reload the product. Even if you manage to do so, you will probably run into the screen not being read correctly when reading list boxes or with the cursor. Or, the worst-case scenario. You have to uninstall JAWS 11 after attempting to
I'm stuck, Please help
Ok, I think this will get the dumbest question of the year award but here goes. I start my macBook Pro, and finder comes up. No matter what I do next, I can't open the apps folder. I have tried choosing it with item chooser, typing apps in, even bring up the doc with VO D. Sometimes it just says you are in a rich text format., or some such thing. I'm sure this is simple, but apparently, so am I. TIA for any help to get back on the Mac. Carolyn -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: I'm stuck, Please help
Hi, Have you tried pressing command w and command q? After that try pressing command shift A to open the applications window. hth On Apr 15, 2010, at 8:48 AM, Carolyn wrote: Ok, I think this will get the dumbest question of the year award but here goes. I start my macBook Pro, and finder comes up. No matter what I do next, I can't open the apps folder. I have tried choosing it with item chooser, typing apps in, even bring up the doc with VO D. Sometimes it just says you are in a rich text format., or some such thing. I'm sure this is simple, but apparently, so am I. TIA for any help to get back on the Mac. Carolyn -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: new member
Hi, Actually, if you take the price of a pretty decent, professional desktop or laptop, then throw in a JAWS pro license which is $1095, you've got two Macbooks, mostly, and then some. I know a couple of agencies in Denmark that are experimenting with the Mac, and they got an iPhone a little wile ago, to. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 15, 2010, at 11:57 AM, Rob Lambert wrote: I think the same is true here in the states, though it seems to be changing, I think. On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:55 AM, Ricardo Walker rwalker...@gmail.com wrote: I think it's happening slowly already. It is just a more cost effective solution than windows computers with the price of a screenreader thrown in. The transition will take a while because contracts need to be fulfilled and such other things. Then we will see thee Mac more in schools, government agencies and the like. On Apr 15, 2010, at 5:46 AM, Rob Lambert wrote: Who here thinks we'll see the Mac replacing PCs in AT training offices? On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:43 AM, Joe Plummer joeplum...@tds.net wrote: For other A T you can run boot camp or virtual windows to use them. Sign, Joe Plummer ( JP ) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 5:46 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Hello Denise, I hope the word processor you are thinking of getting is iWork09, since MS Office for Mac is not accessible. As for Word documents of almost any level, TextEdit or Pages will read these just fine. I can't answer any of your other questions having never been a Windows user. Cheers, Anne On Apr 14, 2010, at 11:27 PM, denise avant wrote: hello, after having my iphone for six months now, i have really enjoyed my experience with apple. To that end, i am looking into purchasing a mac book pro. In fact, i called for some specs today and have set one with 4 gig of ram, and a 320 hard drive, 13 in screen. again this is just a possiblity. i will also have the word processor included. i will also have the one-to-one training as there is a nearby apple store in chicago. i am curious as to what those of you who own macs have done about your other windows based adatpive equipment, duxbury, openbook or k1000 and hw stream companion? how easy is it to move ms word 2003 2007 docs over to apple macs, still keep the formatting or move them back again? I thought of just keeping my netbook or sony machine for these purposes. there was also the idea given to me that i could have windows on one side and the mac on the other side. any thoughts on these questions would be apprciated. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
Re: new member
Hi, Not only that, but you are actually getting trainers from Apple. Well, trainers who have trained themselves, then offer to train people in VoiceOver. Not necessarily for Apple, but just as another viable option for the blind or visually impaired. I'm certain that, as agencies realize the shift in technology, things will change. In fact, they are already. Agencies getting Apple products for experimentation alone shows that even they are willing to throw out what they are used to. Or, at least, try something else. It really is a pain to have so many screen readers in one place. So many are using so many of them. And, the thing, really, is that despite the short time Apple has actually been at the party, Apple is making remarkable progress. Now agencies can actually save money. They don't have to prepare your laptop or desktop. They can just give it to you, without any necessary installation procedures. You can set it all up yourself, even if you are not familiar with VoiceOver. Even if it is your first computer, or if you come from the Windows side. Because, conveniently, Apple allows you to try the tutorial during the setup process. Does it get better than that? Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 15, 2010, at 12:30 PM, marie Howarth wrote: I know in my local store, there are two designated VO trainers and other staff constantly tell me they have played with VO on varying products. I think where there is a demand for it it will happen. Apple is extremely flexible. :) On 15 Apr 2010, at 11:27, Rob Lambert wrote: I agree. Only time will tell, of course. Who better to train people on their products than Apple themselves? I haven't used it, but I do like their one-to-one service, and my hope is they've set aside some staff that have been trained in VoiceOver for us. If not, they should. On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 3:24 AM, marie Howarth marie.jane2...@gmail.com wrote: I think it all depends on the user and their attitude too. An individual may hear about macs on a podcast or know of another user with a mac who is also VI, and take themselves off to the Apple store. In manchester, I know due to myself and a few other VI customers, most of the staff in the store are highly familiar with voice over. As for training, I think its coming from Apple in the near future. On 15 Apr 2010, at 10:54, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote: I'd very much doubt it Rob. I don't know what it's like in other countries, but here in Ireland most of the trainers are actually sighted. Macs haven't penetrated the mainstream userbase to the same extent as windows-based Pcs. Consequently the level of knowledge among the trainers on the actual OS itself (not including VO) is virtually non existent. The fact that the trainers would have to go and learn an entirely new platform, and then educate themselves in a new style of assistive technology makes it pretty certain that the majority of blind users will be stuck with Jaws and other badly implemented screenreaders for the foreseeable future. It's sad, but in my opinion true that this is the case. Dónal From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Lambert Sent: 15 April 2010 10:47 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Who here thinks we'll see the Mac replacing PCs in AT training offices? On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:43 AM, Joe Plummer joeplum...@tds.net wrote: For other A T you can run boot camp or virtual windows to use them. Sign, Joe Plummer ( JP ) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 5:46 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Hello Denise, I hope the word processor you are thinking of getting is iWork09, since MS Office for Mac is not accessible. As for Word documents of almost any level, TextEdit or Pages will read these just fine. I can't answer any of your other questions having never been a Windows user. Cheers, Anne On Apr 14, 2010, at 11:27 PM, denise avant wrote: hello, after having my iphone for six months now, i have really enjoyed my experience with apple. To that end, i am looking into purchasing a mac book pro. In fact, i called for some specs today and have set one with 4 gig of ram, and a 320 hard drive, 13 in screen. again this is just a possiblity. i will also have the word processor included. i will also have the one-to-one training as there is a nearby apple store in chicago. i am curious as to what those of you who own macs have done about your other windows based adatpive equipment, duxbury, openbook or k1000 and hw stream companion? how easy is it to move ms word 2003 2007
Re: Non-US people buying a Mac in the US: Warning.
Hi, Man, I was thinking of doing the same thing. The exchange rate is excellent, and we pay a fortune just to get the Macbooks. Not the Pro ones, but just the regular ones. I guess that plan is out of the question. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 15, 2010, at 1:20 PM, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote: Hi all, I intended to post this months ago and forgot. On a trip to the States back in January I decided to take advantage of the excellent exchange rate and buy a 13 MBP. I saved a fortune I assure you. However, on returning home I discovered something I wasn't previously aware of. The wireless card in the US models is actually configured differently from those sold in Europe. The reason is this. FCC regulations in the States means that wireless routers only broadcast on channels 1-11. In Europe, we can broadcast on channels 1-13. So, wireless cards on Mac machines purchased in the US are only set up to operate on channels 1-11. All of my routers were configured to broadcast on channel 13, so my nice shiny new machine purchased in the US didn't see any of my routers. It was a very simple fix to adjust the channels downwards, and all is now fine. However if you go to, say a public WIFI area, or are using your machine on a network where you can't control the channel on which the wireless signal is broadcast, it might, just might, be a problem for you to purchase your machine in the US. As an aside, for anyone travelling to Europe (or Japan) with a US machine, if you can't pick up a wireless signal that others can, this could be a reason. This may, and probably will, affect only a few people but I pass it on for what it's worth. Cheers Dónal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Who else has seen the iPad?
I just ordered one for Melanie yesterday. She saw an unboxing video and got really excited. Looking forward to seeing it. I also ordered the keyboard dock, case, and camera connection kit. -- Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY On Apr 15, 2010, at 5:32 AM, marie Howarth wrote: I know, I know. in the same situation across the pond. I just can't wait to touch one and bring one home to live with the mac, the nano and the IPhone. :) what a happy little Apple family :) On 15 Apr 2010, at 10:30, May McDonald wrote: Man, I am so jealous. Canada won't get the IPad until the end of next month, cry cry. May and Wyn On 2010-04-15, at 1:21 AM, Rob wrote: I played with it for an hour and a half. I was hooked. I just can't get over the large screen. I also can't decide if I should get the first generation, or wait. Engadget found a group of folk who tore down the iPad, and revealed the inner holdings for a webcam, the same as the iSight on the iMac MacBooks. Sent from my iPod -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: itunes and option key
Yeah, I do to. That's why I was kind of bummed when I thought I couldn't use that shortcut anymore. :) Take care, Donna On Apr 15, 2010, at 1:34 AM, Sarah Alawami wrote: I love the keyboard commander. it is way too cool and sometimes is faster then the doc. Take care. On Apr 14, 2010, at 8:00 PM, Donna Goodin wrote: I just tried launching itunes with the keypad commander, but made sure to release the option key. It launched without a problem. Thanks so much for pointing out the option key thing. Best, Donna -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: What do you think?
Not true. Voiceover went down long before the iTunes lawsuit settlement. Moreover, the iTunes accessibility was probably in the works before said settlement. -- Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY On Apr 15, 2010, at 2:08 AM, Rob Lambert wrote: I just got wind, from a friend of mine, that the only reason Apple is accessible to us is because of a lawsuit by the NFB. The term of the agreement was for accessibility improvements for three years. Here's a question. First, what's your side of this ordeal? Second, who thinks Apple will keep up with the accessibility improvements after this three year term is up? I apologize for making smooth waters mirky, I just wanted to know what your take on this was. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
RE: Non-US people buying a Mac in the US: Warning.
Ah no Nick purchasing over there is not out of the question. I have to say I've been using my US-purchased machine since January with no problems. However, I can envisage a situation where I'm on a network which I don't control and where I can't change the broadcast channel. Raising it is probably me just being picky but I'd prefer if there was some kind of setting I could adjust to change the locale of the card or something. Cheers Dónal -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nicolai Svendsen Sent: 15 April 2010 14:14 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Non-US people buying a Mac in the US: Warning. Hi, Man, I was thinking of doing the same thing. The exchange rate is excellent, and we pay a fortune just to get the Macbooks. Not the Pro ones, but just the regular ones. I guess that plan is out of the question. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 15, 2010, at 1:20 PM, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote: Hi all, I intended to post this months ago and forgot. On a trip to the States back in January I decided to take advantage of the excellent exchange rate and buy a 13 MBP. I saved a fortune I assure you. However, on returning home I discovered something I wasn't previously aware of. The wireless card in the US models is actually configured differently from those sold in Europe. The reason is this. FCC regulations in the States means that wireless routers only broadcast on channels 1-11. In Europe, we can broadcast on channels 1-13. So, wireless cards on Mac machines purchased in the US are only set up to operate on channels 1-11. All of my routers were configured to broadcast on channel 13, so my nice shiny new machine purchased in the US didn't see any of my routers. It was a very simple fix to adjust the channels downwards, and all is now fine. However if you go to, say a public WIFI area, or are using your machine on a network where you can't control the channel on which the wireless signal is broadcast, it might, just might, be a problem for you to purchase your machine in the US. As an aside, for anyone travelling to Europe (or Japan) with a US machine, if you can't pick up a wireless signal that others can, this could be a reason. This may, and probably will, affect only a few people but I pass it on for what it's worth. Cheers Dónal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: What do you think?
Hi, The lawsuit was not in 2004, but 2008 I believe. Perhaps 2009. The lawsuit had nothing to do with it. That was only because they wanted to complain about iTunes, just because they wanted to pretend that people shouldn't pay £41 for jTunes. Which, personally, I think is an outrageous price considering iTunes itself is free. Anyway. I am not quite sure of Danish agencies. By the sound of it, they're definitely open to a breath of fresh air. They got themselves iPhones and Macs now, and a lot of the time when I'm acquiring new equipment, I am getting asked as to whether I use JAWS on Windows, or VoiceOver on a Mac. It's kind of strange, though. I've never actually heard anyone mention Window-Eyes over here, which makes me wonder if it is even localized. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 15, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: Nic, just out of curiosity, what is the danish organisation for the blinds view on Apple products? I have a feeling, though i could be wrong, that the swedish blindness organisation is a bit on the conservative side when it comes to the Apple products, however i could be wrong. /Krister 15 apr 2010 kl. 09.14 skrev Nicolai Svendsen: Hi, I seriously doubt that is the case. Apple accessibility has been around for six years now, not three. I doubt NFB had anything to do with it. Apple is going to keep it up because they are committed. The article about the lawsuit doesn't actually mention Apple much. There is actually a very good point of view. Apple poses a threat to the NFB of taking over the technical market. This is why NFB did not sue Skype, but Apple. Agreement or not, I'm pretty sure they listened to users using Outspoken and such, rather than an organization that can't even review the product properly when it is out. Apple has done far more than anyone for accessibility improvements. Apple said they had something in store, and they sure did. I of course realize that it is a pretty serious statement. Of course, I am not particularly a fan of the NFB at all. Saying that, NFB has made some seriously inaccurate statements as well, far outweighing mine. NFB actually has no reason to sue Apple. What would they sue them for, exactly? Because their products are accessible, and they want everyone to pay more than what a Macbook costs for assistive technology? That wouldn't actually surprise me much. It's all about competition. If they think they're about to be kicked out, of course they would consider Apple a threat. Because Apple has done something Microsoft has not. All these things sound really twisted and disgusting to me. Apple can hardly be sued for their effort. Their lawsuit had to do with iTunes on the Windows side. Fair enough, but that is a pretty ridiculous suit if it really is based on accessibility. That is not the case, however, as there are plenty of other useful programs for PCs that are not anywhere near as accessible as iTunes 9. And NFB doesn't care about that. Which, again, leads me to believe that, because NFB is scared of being kicked out, they do everything they can to stop people buying their product. That would make sense. Windows users rely on scripts all the time to use any application. I suggest you look through your jAWS folder to see what I mean. Have you even seen just the download size of a JAWS installation? It's outrageous. People who moan about iTunes not being accessible just because the interface accidentally broke, just need to use scripts like they do for everything else. I'm surprised that wasn't their first complaint. JAWS, or just Windows in general, isn't even that stable. If JAWS crashes, it's stupidly difficult most of the time to reload the product. Even if you manage to do so, you will probably run into the screen not being read correctly when reading list boxes or with the cursor. Or, the worst-case scenario. You have to uninstall JAWS 11 after attempting to install Video Intercept, reinstall JAWS 10, install VIdeo Intercept, uninstall JAWS 10 then reinstall JAWS 11. Maybe I'm slamming the NFB a bit, but really, they need a kick in the ass. I'm just happy the Danish blindness organizations are not this corrupt and twisted, and they actually review fairly and take a proper look at what a company offers before suing them. I'll always be negative about the NFB, though I am actually being neutral when talking about the actual lawsuit itself. Say what you want to, it won't change my mind. Even if it is someone from NFB saying it. Some NFB people are great. Some do incredibly good reviews. Some don't. And in whole, I think the organization just sucks for filing unnecessary lawsuits for nothing. Maybe I'm going on a childish tantrum here, perhaps. But once in a while, you need to. A company is
Re: Who else has seen the iPad?
Hi, Yes, you can already get iPads in the UK, actually. They can be imported. There is a store over there that will take care of that. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 15, 2010, at 11:38 AM, marie Howarth wrote: Not sure about Canada, but it's looking like the UK will get both 3G and wifi at the same times. Three of our major networks stated yesterday that they will be offering dedicated plans for the IPads at the end of May. *rubs hands together* :) It was the only good news I got yesterday lol :( On 15 Apr 2010, at 10:33, Rob Lambert wrote: You'd think that, since Canada the U.S. are so close, that Apple would treat them the same, regarding shipping schedules. It's possible you guys will get the WiFi 3G models at the same time though, because we already have the WiFi model in the states. We'll be getting the 3G model at the end of the month. On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:30 AM, May McDonald mcdonald@gmail.com wrote: Man, I am so jealous. Canada won't get the IPad until the end of next month, cry cry. May and Wyn On 2010-04-15, at 1:21 AM, Rob wrote: I played with it for an hour and a half. I was hooked. I just can't get over the large screen. I also can't decide if I should get the first generation, or wait. Engadget found a group of folk who tore down the iPad, and revealed the inner holdings for a webcam, the same as the iSight on the iMac MacBooks. Sent from my iPod -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: What do you think?
I would agree with those taking issue with the NFB. It scares me that so many organizations in the US take the NFB's word as speaking for the whole blind population, (which the NFB loves to refer to as the blind. Unfortunately, they are taking credit in some cases for their lawsuit making apple address accessibility. Then they turn around and kick Apple in the teeth with inaccurate reviews knocking Apple's effort. Quite frankly, they scare me. Sorry for my soapbox addition to this. But it's hard for me to stay out of a discussion regarding a group that tries to take credit for everything good that happens and sometimes tries to save the world for the population they lovingly call the blind. This is just one more reason for me to champion for Apple who isn't doing anything but leveling the playing field for all. Thank you Mr. Jobbs, and all of you brilliant engineers at Apple. Carolyn - Original Message - From: Kaare Dehard To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 5:40 AM Subject: Re: What do you think? Rob, we like worms. because of the shift in availability of screen readers, and a lot of them coming at no charge in the apple product line, this sort of thing comes up more often than would be liked. Some of the people that would like to keep their special status feel it necessary to make the waters mirky. We really don't mind providing our thoughts and perspectives on these sort of things. On 2010-04-15, at 3:31 AM, Rob Lambert wrote: I apologize if I opened a can of worms. On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 12:30 AM, Anne Robertson a...@anarchie.org.uk wrote: Hello Nic, Thank you for this post. You've just saved me from going on a major rant along the same lines. Cheers, Anne On Apr 15, 2010, at 9:14 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, I seriously doubt that is the case. Apple accessibility has been around for six years now, not three. I doubt NFB had anything to do with it. Apple is going to keep it up because they are committed. The article about the lawsuit doesn't actually mention Apple much. There is actually a very good point of view. Apple poses a threat to the NFB of taking over the technical market. This is why NFB did not sue Skype, but Apple. Agreement or not, I'm pretty sure they listened to users using Outspoken and such, rather than an organization that can't even review the product properly when it is out. Apple has done far more than anyone for accessibility improvements. Apple said they had something in store, and they sure did. I of course realize that it is a pretty serious statement. Of course, I am not particularly a fan of the NFB at all. Saying that, NFB has made some seriously inaccurate statements as well, far outweighing mine. NFB actually has no reason to sue Apple. What would they sue them for, exactly? Because their products are accessible, and they want everyone to pay more than what a Macbook costs for assistive technology? That wouldn't actually surprise me much. It's all about competition. If they think they're about to be kicked out, of course they would consider Apple a threat. Because Apple has done something Microsoft has not. All these things sound really twisted and disgusting to me. Apple can hardly be sued for their effort. Their lawsuit had to do with iTunes on the Windows side. Fair enough, but that is a pretty ridiculous suit if it really is based on accessibility. That is not the case, however, as there are plenty of other useful programs for PCs that are not anywhere near as accessible as iTunes 9. And NFB doesn't care about that. Which, again, leads me to believe that, because NFB is scared of being kicked out, they do everything they can to stop people buying their product. That would make sense. Windows users rely on scripts all the time to use any application. I suggest you look through your jAWS folder to see what I mean. Have you even seen just the download size of a JAWS installation? It's outrageous. People who moan about iTunes not being accessible just because the interface accidentally broke, just need to use scripts like they do for everything else. I'm surprised that wasn't their first complaint. JAWS, or just Windows in general, isn't even that stable. If JAWS crashes, it's stupidly difficult most of the time to reload the product. Even if you manage to do so, you will probably run into the screen not being read correctly when reading list boxes or with the cursor. Or, the worst-case scenario. You have to uninstall JAWS 11 after attempting to install Video Intercept, reinstall JAWS 10, install VIdeo Intercept, uninstall JAWS 10 then reinstall JAWS 11. Maybe I'm slamming the NFB a bit, but really, they need a kick in the ass. I'm just happy the Danish blindness organizations are not this corrupt and twisted, and they
Re: I'm stuck, Please help
Thanks Ricardo: I'll do this. Honestly, sometimes I fear I won't make sense out of this mac which I sort of admire from afar until my little Dell dies and forces me to learn. Again, I thank you. Carolyn - Original Message - From: Ricardo Walker To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:05 AM Subject: Re: I'm stuck, Please help Hi, Have you tried pressing command w and command q? After that try pressing command shift A to open the applications window. hth On Apr 15, 2010, at 8:48 AM, Carolyn wrote: Ok, I think this will get the dumbest question of the year award but here goes. I start my macBook Pro, and finder comes up. No matter what I do next, I can't open the apps folder. I have tried choosing it with item chooser, typing apps in, even bring up the doc with VO D. Sometimes it just says you are in a rich text format., or some such thing. I'm sure this is simple, but apparently, so am I. TIA for any help to get back on the Mac. Carolyn -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: new member
Not I, As an access technology trainer I get to teach an increasing amount of mac, and I know that there's a trend happening among educated consumeers. I also know that most blind people aren't educated consumers. They are shut in old people with no way to get information for themselves until their windows pc shows up. Unfortunately theres too much money rapped up in selling $1200 screen reader packages to old people who want to email the grand kids and no one wants to hear about lower costs and built in accessibility. Here in Ontario there is certainly an awareness and some more room for it to grow, but I think we're going to see mac use peek out here in the next couple of years and then stay sort'a level around the %5 to %10 mark. Best, Erik Burggraaf APlus certified technician and user support consultant Call toll-free: 1-888-255-5194 Visit my all new website: http://www.erik-burggraaf.com Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com On 2010-04-15, at 5:46 AM, Rob Lambert wrote: Who here thinks we'll see the Mac replacing PCs in AT training offices? On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:43 AM, Joe Plummer joeplum...@tds.net wrote: For other A T you can run boot camp or virtual windows to use them. Sign, Joe Plummer ( JP ) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 5:46 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member Hello Denise, I hope the word processor you are thinking of getting is iWork09, since MS Office for Mac is not accessible. As for Word documents of almost any level, TextEdit or Pages will read these just fine. I can't answer any of your other questions having never been a Windows user. Cheers, Anne On Apr 14, 2010, at 11:27 PM, denise avant wrote: hello, after having my iphone for six months now, i have really enjoyed my experience with apple. To that end, i am looking into purchasing a mac book pro. In fact, i called for some specs today and have set one with 4 gig of ram, and a 320 hard drive, 13 in screen. again this is just a possiblity. i will also have the word processor included. i will also have the one-to-one training as there is a nearby apple store in chicago. i am curious as to what those of you who own macs have done about your other windows based adatpive equipment, duxbury, openbook or k1000 and hw stream companion? how easy is it to move ms word 2003 2007 docs over to apple macs, still keep the formatting or move them back again? I thought of just keeping my netbook or sony machine for these purposes. there was also the idea given to me that i could have windows on one side and the mac on the other side. any thoughts on these questions would be apprciated. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Reading the status bar with voiceover
Hello all: I am relatively new to the mac and have a quick question. I notice in several applications, Safari being one of these, there is a command in the view menu to show and hide the status bar. However, when I show the status bar I cannot seem to read this using any of the Voiceover commands. How does one go about reading the status bar? Am I missing a command? Thanks in advance, Doug -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Who else has seen the iPad?
Really? That's interesting. However, I'm looking for a 3G model so will have to wait until end of May anyway and I doubt the price is as cheap as what the retail price will be here in the UK. On 15 Apr 2010, at 14:23, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, Yes, you can already get iPads in the UK, actually. They can be imported. There is a store over there that will take care of that. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 15, 2010, at 11:38 AM, marie Howarth wrote: Not sure about Canada, but it's looking like the UK will get both 3G and wifi at the same times. Three of our major networks stated yesterday that they will be offering dedicated plans for the IPads at the end of May. *rubs hands together* :) It was the only good news I got yesterday lol :( On 15 Apr 2010, at 10:33, Rob Lambert wrote: You'd think that, since Canada the U.S. are so close, that Apple would treat them the same, regarding shipping schedules. It's possible you guys will get the WiFi 3G models at the same time though, because we already have the WiFi model in the states. We'll be getting the 3G model at the end of the month. On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:30 AM, May McDonald mcdonald@gmail.com wrote: Man, I am so jealous. Canada won't get the IPad until the end of next month, cry cry. May and Wyn On 2010-04-15, at 1:21 AM, Rob wrote: I played with it for an hour and a half. I was hooked. I just can't get over the large screen. I also can't decide if I should get the first generation, or wait. Engadget found a group of folk who tore down the iPad, and revealed the inner holdings for a webcam, the same as the iSight on the iMac MacBooks. Sent from my iPod -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Reading the status bar with voiceover
Hi Doug, vo--shift--M twice will bring up the status bar. It holds such items as your clock, battery status if you are using a mac, and for several apps such as time machine and bluetooth, hth On 15 Apr 2010, at 14:44, Doug Lawlor wrote: Hello all: I am relatively new to the mac and have a quick question. I notice in several applications, Safari being one of these, there is a command in the view menu to show and hide the status bar. However, when I show the status bar I cannot seem to read this using any of the Voiceover commands. How does one go about reading the status bar? Am I missing a command? Thanks in advance, Doug -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: What do you think?
Hi. I'm sorry if I go a bit off-topic here, but here goes: Denmark is a extremely small country, with only something like 5 million people, which means we are only something like 3 blind or visualy impaired people. That means we don't have something like NFB or other big organisasions for blind and visually impaired who are always up-to-date with the latest technology for blind and visually impaired. However, we do have some really great organisations for blind people, but they are pretty small. That means if we wanna follow the news regarding the latest technology, we have to do it on our own. Not said that the danish organisations doesn't do their job very well. I'm just trying to say that here in Denmark, there aren't many people who work on full-time to write reviews about the latest accessibility for blind and visually impaired. That's one of the reasons for there aren't many blind Mac-users here in Denmark. Because the country is very small, it takes a while to spred the word out to all people, because there aren't many people to do it. Things just takes a while in small countries. I'm one of the first blind people here in Denmark who bought my Mac with Voiceover. I remember myself just sitting there with my Mac for a half year, trying to explain to people what Mac and VOiceover is, and they didn't believed me. I was really happy about my choice. I constantly hurd about other blind people, talking about their issues with Jaws and other screenreaders. I was just sitting there with my Mac, and thought to myself: What could I do to make people listen? I got more and more frustrated cause people just said Mac sucks and Voiceover sucks, but then I told them about how VOiceover works, and they shot up. Lol. :) Then I created my own danish mailinglist for blind and visually impaired Mac-users, and people got more and more interested. Now, that's two years ago, and now I think we are more than 10 blind Mac-users. It's not much, but I think it's great if you think about how small country Denmark is. More and more blind people here in Denmark are interested in Mac computers and Voiceover, and many blind people are considering buying a Mac computer. I'm really happy to see that things are going to change after much hard work. Now we are a lot of blind Mac-users to tell about how it works, which makes things going faster. I'm sorry to go off-topic. I just wanna tell about Denmark, where Nic and I live. Best regards Søren Jensen Mail MSN: s...@coolfortheblind.dk Website: http://www.coolfortheblind.dk/ Den Apr 15, 2010 kl. 3:19 PM skrev Nicolai Svendsen: Hi, The lawsuit was not in 2004, but 2008 I believe. Perhaps 2009. The lawsuit had nothing to do with it. That was only because they wanted to complain about iTunes, just because they wanted to pretend that people shouldn't pay £41 for jTunes. Which, personally, I think is an outrageous price considering iTunes itself is free. Anyway. I am not quite sure of Danish agencies. By the sound of it, they're definitely open to a breath of fresh air. They got themselves iPhones and Macs now, and a lot of the time when I'm acquiring new equipment, I am getting asked as to whether I use JAWS on Windows, or VoiceOver on a Mac. It's kind of strange, though. I've never actually heard anyone mention Window-Eyes over here, which makes me wonder if it is even localized. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 15, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: Nic, just out of curiosity, what is the danish organisation for the blinds view on Apple products? I have a feeling, though i could be wrong, that the swedish blindness organisation is a bit on the conservative side when it comes to the Apple products, however i could be wrong. /Krister 15 apr 2010 kl. 09.14 skrev Nicolai Svendsen: Hi, I seriously doubt that is the case. Apple accessibility has been around for six years now, not three. I doubt NFB had anything to do with it. Apple is going to keep it up because they are committed. The article about the lawsuit doesn't actually mention Apple much. There is actually a very good point of view. Apple poses a threat to the NFB of taking over the technical market. This is why NFB did not sue Skype, but Apple. Agreement or not, I'm pretty sure they listened to users using Outspoken and such, rather than an organization that can't even review the product properly when it is out. Apple has done far more than anyone for accessibility improvements. Apple said they had something in store, and they sure did. I of course realize that it is a pretty serious statement. Of course, I am not particularly a fan of the NFB at all. Saying that, NFB has made some seriously inaccurate statements as well, far outweighing mine. NFB actually has no reason to sue Apple. What would
Re: Reading the status bar with voiceover
Hi Marie, I know about the vo-shift-m twice command to read the status menu. I am talking about something different here. To get an example of this go into Safari and type command-slash and you should hear Vo either say Show status bar or Hide status bar depending on it's current state. I am trying to figure out how to read this particular status bar. Thanks, Doug On 2010-04-15, at 11:31 AM, marie Howarth wrote: Hi Doug, vo--shift--M twice will bring up the status bar. It holds such items as your clock, battery status if you are using a mac, and for several apps such as time machine and bluetooth, hth On 15 Apr 2010, at 14:44, Doug Lawlor wrote: Hello all: I am relatively new to the mac and have a quick question. I notice in several applications, Safari being one of these, there is a command in the view menu to show and hide the status bar. However, when I show the status bar I cannot seem to read this using any of the Voiceover commands. How does one go about reading the status bar? Am I missing a command? Thanks in advance, Doug -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: new member
I'm such a regular at my Apple store, (mostly while my twelve-year-old shops elsewhere), that they apple team usually offers me a chair when I get in front of one of their Macs.grin Carolyn - Original Message - From: marie Howarth To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 5:19 AM Subject: Re: new member They are my local apple store and I love the guys in there! Just last Monday I popped into play with a mac. I'm planning on getting a new macbook later this year and was playing with the track pad in the store. Always so helpful and friendly. :) On 15 Apr 2010, at 12:12, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote: Very interesting that RNIB are offering those training days. I don't think the NCBI (Irish equivalent) do. Referring back to a previous note on this thread, you're quite correct that the guys at the Applestore in Manchester are superb. I'm over there rather a lot for religious (sorry soccer!) reasons and I pop in there pretty much every trip to play with the toys and look at the accessories I shouldn't buy but would love to have. On each occasion I've encountered people who knew the assistive products on macs and iPhones. Ah, wouldn't it be nice to have a local Apple store smile Cheers Dónal From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of marie Howarth Sent: 15 April 2010 12:03 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: new member I've just done a little scouting around. And I was wrong. RNIB actually have offered training days for agencies, people with a VI and parents of children who are have VI children. They also list the IPhone on their accessible phones list. I guess the information has not filtered across to their organisation who carries out the support. So I guess they acknowledge the fact but don't shout about it. On 15 Apr 2010, at 11:46, Rob Lambert wrote: Very valid point, Ricardo. I agree whole heartedly. On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 3:43 AM, Ricardo Walker rwalker...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I think it has to start with agencies for the blind and the educational system. As an adult it's easy enough to just get up and go to an apple store, or have the money to pay for 1 on 1 training at said apple store. But a 12 year old not so much. I think younger people must be exposed to other options. It doesn't even have anything to do with how great Apple is. It's just creating a market where people can obtain access to the technology they need without selling their first born. lol. If anything, I think Apple has started to make makers of adaptive technology squirm a bit. It becomes harder for them to justified the cost of their products. On Apr 15, 2010, at 6:30 AM, marie Howarth wrote: I know in my local store, there are two designated VO trainers and other staff constantly tell me they have played with VO on varying products. I think where there is a demand for it it will happen. Apple is extremely flexible. :) On 15 Apr 2010, at 11:27, Rob Lambert wrote: I agree. Only time will tell, of course. Who better to train people on their products than Apple themselves? I haven't used it, but I do like their one-to-one service, and my hope is they've set aside some staff that have been trained in VoiceOver for us. If not, they should. On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 3:24 AM, marie Howarth marie.jane2...@gmail.com wrote: I think it all depends on the user and their attitude too. An individual may hear about macs on a podcast or know of another user with a mac who is also VI, and take themselves off to the Apple store. In manchester, I know due to myself and a few other VI customers, most of the staff in the store are highly familiar with voice over. As for training, I think its coming from Apple in the near future. On 15 Apr 2010, at 10:54, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote: I'd very much doubt it Rob. I don't know what it's like in other countries, but here in Ireland most of the trainers are actually sighted. Macs haven't penetrated the mainstream userbase to the same extent as windows-based Pcs. Consequently the level of knowledge among the trainers on the actual OS itself (not including VO) is virtually non existent. The fact that the trainers would have to go and learn an entirely new platform, and then educate themselves in a new style of assistive technology makes it pretty certain that the majority of blind users will be stuck with Jaws and other badly implemented screenreaders for the foreseeable future. It's sad, but in my opinion true that this is the case. Dónal From:
Re: What do you think?
Hey I just gotta chime in here. I live in Denver. I'm having difficulty making the jump to my Mac. I've called everywhere I can in Denver, looking for someone, anyone to give me the jump start/kick in the rear to really make this move from PC to Mac happen. Guess who has offered the tutoring I need? ... no, not the NFB, Not Rehab, but Apple itself with a voice-over trained staffer. I'm starting next week! Carolyn - Original Message - From: Cody To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 1:36 AM Subject: Re: What do you think? Takes a deep breath. Oh yeah, like the damn nfb cares. if they cared so much, then why don't training centers demo macs. It's call money. I hate the * nfb. - Original Message - From: Anne Robertson a...@anarchie.org.uk To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 3:30 AM Subject: Re: What do you think? Hello Nic, Thank you for this post. You've just saved me from going on a major rant along the same lines. Cheers, Anne On Apr 15, 2010, at 9:14 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, I seriously doubt that is the case. Apple accessibility has been around for six years now, not three. I doubt NFB had anything to do with it. Apple is going to keep it up because they are committed. The article about the lawsuit doesn't actually mention Apple much. There is actually a very good point of view. Apple poses a threat to the NFB of taking over the technical market. This is why NFB did not sue Skype, but Apple. Agreement or not, I'm pretty sure they listened to users using Outspoken and such, rather than an organization that can't even review the product properly when it is out. Apple has done far more than anyone for accessibility improvements. Apple said they had something in store, and they sure did. I of course realize that it is a pretty serious statement. Of course, I am not particularly a fan of the NFB at all. Saying that, NFB has made some seriously inaccurate statements as well, far outweighing mine. NFB actually has no reason to sue Apple. What would they sue them for, exactly? Because their products are accessible, and they want everyone to pay more than what a Macbook costs for assistive technology? That wouldn't actually surprise me much. It's all about competition. If they think they're about to be kicked out, of course they would consider Apple a threat. Because Apple has done something Microsoft has not. All these things sound really twisted and disgusting to me. Apple can hardly be sued for their effort. Their lawsuit had to do with iTunes on the Windows side. Fair enough, but that is a pretty ridiculous suit if it really is based on accessibility. That is not the case, however, as there are plenty of other useful programs for PCs that are not anywhere near as accessible as iTunes 9. And NFB doesn't care about that. Which, again, leads me to believe that, because NFB is scared of being kicked out, they do everything they can to stop people buying their product. That would make sense. Windows users rely on scripts all the time to use any application. I suggest you look through your jAWS folder to see what I mean. Have you even seen just the download size of a JAWS installation? It's outrageous. People who moan about iTunes not being accessible just because the interface accidentally broke, just need to use scripts like they do for everything else. I'm surprised that wasn't their first complaint. JAWS, or just Windows in general, isn't even that stable. If JAWS crashes, it's stupidly difficult most of the time to reload the product. Even if you manage to do so, you will probably run into the screen not being read correctly when reading list boxes or with the cursor. Or, the worst-case scenario. You have to uninstall JAWS 11 after attempting to install Video Intercept, reinstall JAWS 10, install VIdeo Intercept, uninstall JAWS 10 then reinstall JAWS 11. Maybe I'm slamming the NFB a bit, but really, they need a kick in the ass. I'm just happy the Danish blindness organizations are not this corrupt and twisted, and they actually review fairly and take a proper look at what a company offers before suing them. I'll always be negative about the NFB, though I am actually being neutral when talking about the actual lawsuit itself. Say what you want to, it won't change my mind. Even if it is someone from NFB saying it. Some NFB people are great. Some do incredibly good reviews. Some don't. And in whole, I think the organization just sucks for filing unnecessary lawsuits for nothing. Maybe I'm going on a childish tantrum here, perhaps. But once in a while, you need to. A company is trying to provide great accessibility for their products, and
Re: What do you think?
That's great news Carolyn. Let us know how it goes for you. :) On 15 Apr 2010, at 15:15, Carolyn wrote: Hey I just gotta chime in here. I live in Denver. I'm having difficulty making the jump to my Mac. I've called everywhere I can in Denver, looking for someone, anyone to give me the jump start/kick in the rear to really make this move from PC to Mac happen. Guess who has offered the tutoring I need? ... no, not the NFB, Not Rehab, but Apple itself with a voice-over trained staffer. I'm starting next week! Carolyn - Original Message - From: Cody To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 1:36 AM Subject: Re: What do you think? Takes a deep breath. Oh yeah, like the damn nfb cares. if they cared so much, then why don't training centers demo macs. It's call money. I hate the * nfb. - Original Message - From: Anne Robertson a...@anarchie.org.uk To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 3:30 AM Subject: Re: What do you think? Hello Nic, Thank you for this post. You've just saved me from going on a major rant along the same lines. Cheers, Anne On Apr 15, 2010, at 9:14 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, I seriously doubt that is the case. Apple accessibility has been around for six years now, not three. I doubt NFB had anything to do with it. Apple is going to keep it up because they are committed. The article about the lawsuit doesn't actually mention Apple much. There is actually a very good point of view. Apple poses a threat to the NFB of taking over the technical market. This is why NFB did not sue Skype, but Apple. Agreement or not, I'm pretty sure they listened to users using Outspoken and such, rather than an organization that can't even review the product properly when it is out. Apple has done far more than anyone for accessibility improvements. Apple said they had something in store, and they sure did. I of course realize that it is a pretty serious statement. Of course, I am not particularly a fan of the NFB at all. Saying that, NFB has made some seriously inaccurate statements as well, far outweighing mine. NFB actually has no reason to sue Apple. What would they sue them for, exactly? Because their products are accessible, and they want everyone to pay more than what a Macbook costs for assistive technology? That wouldn't actually surprise me much. It's all about competition. If they think they're about to be kicked out, of course they would consider Apple a threat. Because Apple has done something Microsoft has not. All these things sound really twisted and disgusting to me. Apple can hardly be sued for their effort. Their lawsuit had to do with iTunes on the Windows side. Fair enough, but that is a pretty ridiculous suit if it really is based on accessibility. That is not the case, however, as there are plenty of other useful programs for PCs that are not anywhere near as accessible as iTunes 9. And NFB doesn't care about that. Which, again, leads me to believe that, because NFB is scared of being kicked out, they do everything they can to stop people buying their product. That would make sense. Windows users rely on scripts all the time to use any application. I suggest you look through your jAWS folder to see what I mean. Have you even seen just the download size of a JAWS installation? It's outrageous. People who moan about iTunes not being accessible just because the interface accidentally broke, just need to use scripts like they do for everything else. I'm surprised that wasn't their first complaint. JAWS, or just Windows in general, isn't even that stable. If JAWS crashes, it's stupidly difficult most of the time to reload the product. Even if you manage to do so, you will probably run into the screen not being read correctly when reading list boxes or with the cursor. Or, the worst-case scenario. You have to uninstall JAWS 11 after attempting to install Video Intercept, reinstall JAWS 10, install VIdeo Intercept, uninstall JAWS 10 then reinstall JAWS 11. Maybe I'm slamming the NFB a bit, but really, they need a kick in the ass. I'm just happy the Danish blindness organizations are not this corrupt and twisted, and they actually review fairly and take a proper look at what a company offers before suing them. I'll always be negative about the NFB, though I am actually being neutral when talking about the actual lawsuit itself. Say what you want to, it won't change my mind. Even if it is someone from NFB saying it. Some NFB people are great. Some do incredibly good reviews. Some don't. And in whole, I think the organization just sucks for filing unnecessary lawsuits for nothing. Maybe I'm going on a childish tantrum here, perhaps. But once in a while, you need to. A company is trying to provide
Re: What do you think?
I think Apple will keep up with the accessibility after the three year term is up. NFB is all about suing companies just because they're not meeting up to their standard of accessibility for the blind fast enough. Sorry, but that's how I am feeling. On Apr 15, 2010, at 2:08 AM, Rob Lambert wrote: I just got wind, from a friend of mine, that the only reason Apple is accessible to us is because of a lawsuit by the NFB. The term of the agreement was for accessibility improvements for three years. Here's a question. First, what's your side of this ordeal? Second, who thinks Apple will keep up with the accessibility improvements after this three year term is up? I apologize for making smooth waters mirky, I just wanted to know what your take on this was. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
burning iso files
Hi how do you burn iso files? Can i use disk utility to do it? I see a button that says burn image. Not sure i am new at the mac. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
what I think
While I don't blame people here for criticizing the NFB for its initially bad review of Apple's Voice OVer, (a criticism with which I myself agree), I must say quite frankly that I do not appreciate continued criticism of the NFB after they've made a good effort in the December 2009 Braille, monitor to correct many of their initially incorrect statements. Besides, that's not why I joined this list. It appears that some of you want to criticize the NFB for an initially bad review of Voice Over; but, not acknowledge when they admit they made quite a few substantial mistakes and openly apologized for them in the Monitor. IF you make a mistake, you've got to be willing to own up that you've made it and try to make good what corrections you need to. No. The NFB is not perfect; but then again, who is? Apple? No. Microsoft? No. Me? No. You? no. Look y'all, they made a very big set of mistakes in their June review. Only a fool would deny that. but, let me remind all of y'all here that in the December update, they did correct many of their earlier statements. Okay. Maybe not all of them, but, enough of them so that I think they deserve credit for having owned up to when they were wrong. But, seems to me like some of y'all can't stand to acknowledge that they did make an effort to clean up the mess they made. If that's what this list is going to turn in to, I'm out o' here!!! But, I'd rather think, (at least for the moment), that most of the people on this list are better than that. I'm not saying y'all all have to become fans of the NFB. All I'm saying is lay off. They did wrong, and, they apologized for and made an effort to correct that wrong. To me, when you commit a wrong very publicly, (as in the June Braille Monitor), and then you just as publicly apologize for it and make efforts to correct it, (as in the December Braille Monitor), you've got to frankly acknowledge that fact; and, whether you like it or not, they did!!! Let's remember that shall we? Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray! Now A Proud Mac User!!! E-Mail: rforetjr at comcast dot net -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
changing bit rate when extracting with i-tunes
Hi everyone, I have a quick question if anyone could clear things up for me here. I am having problems changing the bit rate in I-tunes. I would like to rip my CD's at 320 KBPS but whenever I set that option i n I-tunes, the settings never take effect after applying the changes. What am I doing wrong here? I managed to set i-tunes to rip at 192 KBPS but why can-t I rip at 320? There must be something that I am doing wrong here and for the life of me can't figure out what it is. Thanks for your suggestions. Lyn Twinny *** MSN and Email= lyn.bordeau...@gmail.com skype= keanemaniac klango : keanemaniac facebook www.facebook.com/Lyn.bordeaux33 (Please say who you are and where you got my info if asking to share details, thank you) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: what I think
Hi, I'm not trying to attack the NFB. But to me, I absolutely hate inaccuracy. At least they let the rebuttal be posted. Hopefully, that has changed quite a few things. That does not make me like that organization any better, though at least, they finally, despite it taking half a year, stood up and took responsibility for it. Which I suppose is a good thing. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 15, 2010, at 4:47 PM, Ray Foret jr wrote: While I don't blame people here for criticizing the NFB for its initially bad review of Apple's Voice OVer, (a criticism with which I myself agree), I must say quite frankly that I do not appreciate continued criticism of the NFB after they've made a good effort in the December 2009 Braille, monitor to correct many of their initially incorrect statements. Besides, that's not why I joined this list. It appears that some of you want to criticize the NFB for an initially bad review of Voice Over; but, not acknowledge when they admit they made quite a few substantial mistakes and openly apologized for them in the Monitor. IF you make a mistake, you've got to be willing to own up that you've made it and try to make good what corrections you need to. No. The NFB is not perfect; but then again, who is? Apple? No. Microsoft? No. Me? No. You? no. Look y'all, they made a very big set of mistakes in their June review. Only a fool would deny that. but, let me remind all of y'all here that in the December update, they did correct many of their earlier statements. Okay. Maybe not all of them, but, enough of them so that I think they deserve credit for having owned up to when they were wrong. But, seems to me like some of y'all can't stand to acknowledge that they did make an effort to clean up the mess they made. If that's what this list is going to turn in to, I'm out o' here!!! But, I'd rather think, (at least for the moment), that most of the people on this list are better than that. I'm not saying y'all all have to become fans of the NFB. All I'm saying is lay off. They did wrong, and, they apologized for and made an effort to correct that wrong. To me, when you commit a wrong very publicly, (as in the June Braille Monitor), and then you just as publicly apologize for it and make efforts to correct it, (as in the December Braille Monitor), you've got to frankly acknowledge that fact; and, whether you like it or not, they did!!! Let's remember that shall we? Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray! Now A Proud Mac User!!! E-Mail: rforetjr at comcast dot net -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: what I think
Hi, Well, I must have missed this one, admittedly. Quite nice. His attitude is much more positive, and it obviously shows he did some research this time around. Saying that, finding help for the Mac isn't that hard, really. It's all in the Mac help if you enter into the search box. I have personally found everything documented I wanted to know, and explored it on my own since then. Either that, or I'll quickly go through Apple's website. That is the only thing I do not agree with, but otherwise, I agree from this point. I think we should, by all accounts, respect the fact they are at least making the effort now to retract their statements for good, and try to rectify their previous mistakes. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 15, 2010, at 5:07 PM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, I'm not trying to attack the NFB. But to me, I absolutely hate inaccuracy. At least they let the rebuttal be posted. Hopefully, that has changed quite a few things. That does not make me like that organization any better, though at least, they finally, despite it taking half a year, stood up and took responsibility for it. Which I suppose is a good thing. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 15, 2010, at 4:47 PM, Ray Foret jr wrote: While I don't blame people here for criticizing the NFB for its initially bad review of Apple's Voice OVer, (a criticism with which I myself agree), I must say quite frankly that I do not appreciate continued criticism of the NFB after they've made a good effort in the December 2009 Braille, monitor to correct many of their initially incorrect statements. Besides, that's not why I joined this list. It appears that some of you want to criticize the NFB for an initially bad review of Voice Over; but, not acknowledge when they admit they made quite a few substantial mistakes and openly apologized for them in the Monitor. IF you make a mistake, you've got to be willing to own up that you've made it and try to make good what corrections you need to. No. The NFB is not perfect; but then again, who is? Apple? No. Microsoft? No. Me? No. You? no. Look y'all, they made a very big set of mistakes in their June review. Only a fool would deny that. but, let me remind all of y'all here that in the December update, they did correct many of their earlier statements. Okay. Maybe not all of them, but, enough of them so that I think they deserve credit for having owned up to when they were wrong. But, seems to me like some of y'all can't stand to acknowledge that they did make an effort to clean up the mess they made. If that's what this list is going to turn in to, I'm out o' here!!! But, I'd rather think, (at least for the moment), that most of the people on this list are better than that. I'm not saying y'all all have to become fans of the NFB. All I'm saying is lay off. They did wrong, and, they apologized for and made an effort to correct that wrong. To me, when you commit a wrong very publicly, (as in the June Braille Monitor), and then you just as publicly apologize for it and make efforts to correct it, (as in the December Braille Monitor), you've got to frankly acknowledge that fact; and, whether you like it or not, they did!!! Let's remember that shall we? Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray! Now A Proud Mac User!!! E-Mail: rforetjr at comcast dot net -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
