Re: GSoC 2010, eBook reader. Looking for feedback and ideas.
- Original message - > I don't think format support is hugely important in the end, as you > can convert between formats with a program like calibre. > Strongly disagree. Maybe your or I can, but it's rather terribly inconvenient and requires using another device to facilitate ebook reading on your N900. Without good format support, there's hardly any point. -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council member ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: GSoC 2010, eBook reader. Looking for feedback and ideas.
On Apr 29, 2010, at 6:23 PM, Aniello Del Sorbo wrote: > Ryan, how often do you read e-book in portrait mode on the tablets? 99% of the time I use it in portrait mode, except for a short stretch after Maemo 5 was first released when the volume keys wouldn't scroll. ;) The volume rocker is just to useful for paging not to use it in portrait. Also: less wasted screen space in portrait. -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council member ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: GSoC 2010, eBook reader. Looking for feedback and ideas.
On Apr 29, 2010, at 12:24 PM, Juhana Jauhiainen wrote: > Hello, Howdy! I've been using FBReader on Maemo since the earliest days of the 770, and I've read hundreds of books on my Maemo devices over the past 5 years. So book reading is something rather near to my heart. ;) First and foremost you need two things: good format handling and good formatting options. Implementing format handling from-scratch is going to be a herculean undertaking, so I wonder if you could've borrow FBReader's handling (as their format support is strong and fairly extensive). As that not only gives you a lot of quality format support, but also a long-term solution to format handling (assuming you don't have to deviate overly far from their code to implement it). As for formatting, having easily configurable formatting options is important to ensuring that all of your users can get their optimal experience. This is one area where devices like Kindle and iPad fall flat on their faces (setting the default margin to 1" always seemed rather insane to me). Again, this is another area where I would mostly just borrow from FBReader (options, not code ;)), but see if it can't be implemented in a more mobile-friendly manner. Having a number of useful default profiles will help here. FBReader's greatest strength is also its greatest weakness, so having a native book reader would be a very welcome change! -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council member ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Building Maemo OS from Source.
On Mar 19, 2010, at 6:15 PM, wrote: > From: ext Ryan Abel [rabe...@gmail.com] > Sent: 20 March 2010 00:06 > >> Well, in Harmattans case, because it aint MeeGo at all. For anything else, >> well, I don't know. Until we know exactly how much of the platform is >> actually "MeeGo" it's impossible to say. But judging by the amount of >> differentiation I know Nokia likes to keep, it's going to be incredibly >> confusing to both users and developers. > > This is stuff for marketing (Peter and Quim) to answer. I don't think i'm > qualified to transmit any message in a proper way, while it's their job to > make sure the confusion is dispelled :-D Yeah, and I wish them the best of luck in it. ;) ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Building Maemo OS from Source.
On Mar 19, 2010, at 5:50 PM, wrote: > From: ext Ryan Abel [rabe...@gmail.com] > Sent: 19 March 2010 23:43 > >> Will it be advertised as such? Wording I've seen so far leads me to believe >> it'll be advertised as "MeeGo" not "MeeGo-compliant". I guess we'll have to >> wait and see. > > Anyway why wouldn't "MeeGo" be correct if it is contained in the device? I > could understand the argument if some MeeGo component was to be replaced, but > if it is extanded or if some gap (platform specific) is filled by a non-MeeGo > component, I see no real problem or miscommunication. Well, in Harmattans case, because it aint MeeGo at all. For anything else, well, I don't know. Until we know exactly how much of the platform is actually "MeeGo" it's impossible to say. But judging by the amount of differentiation I know Nokia likes to keep, it's going to be incredibly confusing to both users and developers. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Building Maemo OS from Source.
On Mar 19, 2010, at 8:52 AM, Igor Stoppa wrote: > ext Ryan Abel wrote: > >> Well, except for the part where Nokia ends up marketing it as "MeeGo". Oh, >> and Harmattan's, apparently, MeeGo, too, and it definitely has closed stuff >> at the platform level. >> >> Yeah . . . not confusing at all. ;) > > No at all: it's about standardization. The device must support a certain set > of features and provide well defined APIs. > > So if a device is MeeGo compliant, it will be advertised as such. > > What's confusing about it? Will it be advertised as such? Wording I've seen so far leads me to believe it'll be advertised as "MeeGo" not "MeeGo-compliant". I guess we'll have to wait and see. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Building Maemo OS from Source.
On Mar 19, 2010, at 7:42 AM, Igor Stoppa wrote: > ext Marcin Juszkiewicz wrote: > >> Dnia czwartek, 18 marca 2010 o 19:59:25 Samir Faci (Dev) napisał(a): >> >>> Hmm.. any one know if meego will be completely open source?. >>> >>> Or is it too early to know for sure at this point. >>> >> >> It was already said that Nokia devices running MeeGo will contain closed >> source components. So answer to your question is "no, it won't be". > > Incorrect. Well, except for the part where Nokia ends up marketing it as "MeeGo". Oh, and Harmattan's, apparently, MeeGo, too, and it definitely has closed stuff at the platform level. Yeah . . . not confusing at all. ;) ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: A proper home page in maemo.org with help wiki for each app in Extras
On Feb 12, 2010, at 4:12 PM, Ajai Khattri wrote: > On Fri, 12 Feb 2010, Sascha Mäkelä wrote: > >> While writing help files for my current project, I came to a conclusion that >> it would be easier to have the app simply point to a wiki page. This way a >> new version of the app would not be needed for changes/corrections in the >> documentation. > > What about providing the help as a separate package? That way, you can > distribute help updates any time you like. You could also make it a > dependency of your app to ensure it always gets installed alongside your > app. This isn't really any easier than bundling the docs with the application package itself and marginally more complicated for both the developer and the user. If the docs package is in user/*, then it's cluttering up the application manager and you need twice the amount of effort to get it promoted to Extras. If it's not in user/*, then the user has yet another invisible package sucking up space. I don't see any reason why we couldn't have a Documentation field on the Downloads page linking wherever. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Using the Flasher Utility as a Nokia Software Update (NSU) Replacement?
On Feb 4, 2010, at 8:29 AM, Amichai Rotman wrote: > Is it possible to adapt the existing Flasher utility, used to update the > Nokia Tablets under Linux, so it can be used as a replacement for the > Windows-only NSU? > > I am not a developer. I am an end user looking for a way to update my Nokia > N97 / E71 smartphones under the Linux CLI. I also own a Nokia 770 (which I > seldom use) and I really liked the fact I could update the firmware under > Linux... No, the flasher is only designed to work with Maemo devices (770, N800, N810, N810WE, and N900). Symbian devices will not work with the Maemo flash and are off-topic for this list. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Is mauku open source, i.e free or is in non-free?
On Jan 27, 2010, at 2:28 AM, Henrik Hedberg wrote: > Ryan Abel wrote: >> On Jan 26, 2010, at 4:07 PM, Henrik Hedberg wrote: >>> Jeremiah Foster wrote: >>> >>>> Bug #7505 asks if mauku is open or closed. According to the bug report, it >>>> looks pretty closed. >>> ... >>>> What should we do here? Move this to non-free? >>> I am very aware of the meaning "free" here. Mauku was uploaded into the >>> free section because there was (is) no non-free repository in Extras. >>> However, the community insisted to close all external repositories and use >>> Extras instead (done that). In addition, Ovi Store was not (is not, it is >>> still beta) available for distribution channel. >> http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/fremantle/non-free/ > > Thanks, I know. But as I said, "[t]here have not been any discussion, > announcements or instructions how to really handle QA in the non-free > section." Thus, the non-free section in Extras does not officially exists. > There is only procedures how to upload it into extras-devel. Er, yeah, as far as I'm aware the process is very nearly the same. . . . I'm inclined to believe that you should probably seek to enlighten your opinions with more fact before spreading them around. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Is mauku open source, i.e free or is in non-free?
On Jan 26, 2010, at 4:07 PM, Henrik Hedberg wrote: > Jeremiah Foster wrote: > >> Bug #7505 asks if mauku is open or closed. According to the bug report, it >> looks pretty closed. > ... >> What should we do here? Move this to non-free? > > I am very aware of the meaning "free" here. Mauku was uploaded into the > free section because there was (is) no non-free repository in Extras. > However, the community insisted to close all external repositories and use > Extras instead (done that). In addition, Ovi Store was not (is not, it is > still beta) available for distribution channel. http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/fremantle/non-free/ ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: How to destroy your community
On Jan 20, 2010, at 5:29 PM, Aldon Hynes wrote: > Yet perhaps this is some of the problem. It seems like the community of > people working with devices running Maemo might be better served if it was > more distinct. As is noted on the maemo.org Terms of Use page, the site is > hosted as a 'public service' by Nokia Corporation. The legal pages on maemo.org are rather unclear, as most of them haven't been updated since the branding redesign in 2008. > IMHO, what would make much more sense would be if > 1) An independent open source community gets established, as a seperate not > for profit legal entity. You mean maemo.org is established as a separate legal entity. This one's been discussed a couple of times in the past. I'm all in favor. > 2) Nokia contributes a few things to that community, including the Maemo > trademark, so that the community could call itself Maemo, and the amount of > money that Nokia spends on hosting the site and other community related > activities. The Maemo trademark is a Nokia trademark that's used in the branding of their Linux software platform and the devices that run it. We already have a community trademark that has a logo and everything (not something Maemo can claim): maemo.org. > 3) The community, itself, could then run Maemo, including the websites, etc. ERROR: undefined "Maemo" ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: How to destroy your community
On Jan 20, 2010, at 5:26 PM, Jeff Moe wrote: > On Wednesday 20 January 2010 19:21:18 Ryan Abel wrote: > >> On Jan 20, 2010, at 1:04 PM, Jeff Moe wrote: >> >>> I've seen frequent mentions of how distinct maemo.org is from Nokia. But >>> the reality seems that nothing at Maemo can really happen without Nokia's >>> tacit approval. Is there anyone that has server access that isn't paid >>> (directly or indirectly) by Nokia? Can we start getting the servers admin'd >>> by community admins instead of depending upon Nokia? A first step would be >>> to document (on the *outside/public*) wiki the current server arrangement. >>> Another good step would be to get DNS off their servers. Until that >>> happens, the whole "maemo is distinct from Nokia" is just a façade. >> >> Maemo is a trademark owned by Nokia and used for their software platform and >> their products. You're confusing Maemo and maemo.org (maemo.org being the >> community-owned website). In doing so, you're confusing the discussion and >> making it much more difficult to participate and arrive at a useful >> conclusion. "Maemo" and "maemo.org" are not equivalent interchangeable terms. > > Yep! Definitely confusing them. They do seem much one and the same to me > though. It seems we've come to some useful conclusions, regardless > > Though how does the community "own" maemo.org? I mean, can we really just > walk off with it and leave Nokia behind? I doubt it. Can we see the finances > of this website, please? Yes, we could walk off with it and move it elsewhere if we had consensus to do so. $$$ is always a sensitive topic and not one that is widely advertised even in the most Free of Free Software projects. Especially not when corporate sponsors are involved. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: How to destroy your community
On Jan 20, 2010, at 1:04 PM, Jeff Moe wrote: > I've seen frequent mentions of how distinct maemo.org is from Nokia. But the > reality seems that nothing at Maemo can really happen without Nokia's tacit > approval. Is there anyone that has server access that isn't paid (directly or > indirectly) by Nokia? Can we start getting the servers admin'd by community > admins instead of depending upon Nokia? A first step would be to document (on > the *outside/public*) wiki the current server arrangement. Another good step > would be to get DNS off their servers. Until that happens, the whole "maemo > is distinct from Nokia" is just a façade. Maemo is a trademark owned by Nokia and used for their software platform and their products. You're confusing Maemo and maemo.org (maemo.org being the community-owned website). In doing so, you're confusing the discussion and making it much more difficult to participate and arrive at a useful conclusion. "Maemo" and "maemo.org" are not equivalent interchangeable terms. Thanks. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-devel] List emails subject prefix
On Jan 19, 2010, at 9:46 PM, Hartti Suomela wrote: > Additionally I do not buy the "wasting space" argument but that is very much > personal opinion based on my preference of using laptop much more than my > handheld device for reading these emails and I understand that long prefixes > could create problems when reading emails on a small screen device (such as > N900) If you don't buy it, you evidently don't do much email reading on any Maemo devices. :) ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-devel] List emails subject prefix
On Jan 19, 2010, at 1:12 PM, Andre Klapper wrote: > Am Dienstag, den 19.01.2010, 17:45 + schrieb Edward Johns: > >> I feel a little cheeky asking this when I've only just joined the list >> but I was wondering if anybody else thinks it is a good idea to have >> mails to this list (and the other maemo lists) prefix the subject line >> with the name of the list. > > Considering limited screen estate on some mobile devices people around > here are using I prefer to filter by specific header lines on the > mailserver instead (as explained by Marcin already). Bingo. Modest is already character-limited enough for subject lines without adding another 13 or more characters to ever email. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Follow up from QA meeting on IRC
On Nov 12, 2009, at 3:17 AM, Dave Neary wrote: > So - how can we make giving the feedback and voting on applications > easier? Oh, this one's easy. Get some servers so rating a package isn't either impossible or a 20-minute endeavor. Even motivated testers like myself don't have much interest in getting on the website to vote when submitting one takes 3 attempts and 10 minutes of your time. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Package does not end up in DIABLO extras-devel
On Nov 11, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Bruce Forsberg wrote: > On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 11:30 AM, Till Harbaum / Lists > wrote: > >> the same happened to gpxview 0.8.13-1. I emailed Niels about >> this but he did not yet reply. > > The Nokia folks must be having a N900 release party and not available. > I went ahead and wrote a bugzilla report on the problem. maemo.org isn't handled by the Nokia folks. :) Niels is on vacation for another few weeks. Ferenc's the one in charge in the meantime. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Retail FIASCO image for users of real operating systems
Any news on when tablets-dev might be updated for those of us without access to Windows XP installs? You know, most of us with pre-release devices. ;) http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php is 404 as of now. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: QA process = bug fixing disincentive?
On Nov 4, 2009, at 9:21 AM, Graham Cobb wrote: > But the update description does not help with testing: (a) it is > user friendly text, not a developer changelog and (b) the > description is vs. the version already in Extras not vs. the last > extras-testing version. I'd still love to see a Testing Mode in h-a-m. Show Debian changelogs, show repository origin, give you an interface to packages, etc. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Testing nonsense
On Nov 3, 2009, at 9:59 AM, Till Harbaum wrote: > I'd just like to interject that any new process like this is going to have growing pains. You have two options to deal with the kinks that inevitably appear in an untried process, help to smooth them out (See the "QA process = bug fixing disincentive?" thread) or drop into rant- mode and succeed mostly in irritating and polarizing people while doing little to assist with improving the process. I see a lot of people picking the later method right now and find it a bit disheartening. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: QA process = bug fixing disincentive?
On Nov 2, 2009, at 3:07 PM, Qole wrote: > Your reply continues to sound like the middle class moms who argue > for private schools. How will our children ever get ahead if they go > to that school down the street? It is full of common children who > will only slow our gifted children down. This is a flawed analogy that leans more towards ad hominem than productive discussion. :) ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: The issue of version strings
On Oct 29, 2009, at 5:45 PM, David Greaves wrote: > So you're thinking that a git sha1 is 'suboptimal' ? > > I thought Shopper v.fc42f5c26bbc257cf782679f7b40075e05322647 Don't make me hit you! ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Extras-testing Marathon – Next Saturday (Oct 31)
On Oct 28, 2009, at 10:03 PM, Valerio Valerio wrote: > If you’re a developer, make sure your applications are in good shape > before the testing marathon. Any developers who would like Bugzilla products before the marathon starts, please email me the information listed on this page[1]: http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugs:Adding_Extra_products This is a nice way to reward your reporters with karma and can help you in tracking and treating bugs in your application. [1]https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?classification=Extras ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
The issue of version strings
One thing I think it might be worth working on is the user- friendliness of the version strings of packages in Extras. We want the Application manager to be as friendly and approachable for the average user as possible and long incomprehensible lines of alphanumerics are a surefire way to scare people off. ;) So, this is just my humble request that people be considerate of users when crafting their version strings and try to it reasonable. Avoiding date/svn-based versions would probably be a good idea. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: My first day as maemo.org distmaster
On Oct 28, 2009, at 10:50 AM, Valerio Valerio wrote: > On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Andrew Flegg wrote: > >> On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 14:03, Carsten Valdemar Munk >> wrote: >> >>> Starting from today, I will be officially starting my work as >>> maemo.org distmaster. Nokia has gracefully sponsored this position >>> for >>> the community at the request of the maemo.org community council. >> >> Congratulations! And can I be the first to say "thank you" to Nokia >> for seriously considering our proposal. It's a testament to the level >> of trust and respect that the community (and the Community Council) >> have in the eyes of Nokia's decision makers... >> >> ...of course, it helped having such a strong candidate as Carsten >> available! > > very glad to see this new position, congrats to the ones that made > it happen. > > My best wishes for our new member of the gang-of-four, err... now > should be gang-of-five :) Arguably gang-of-six if you're counting Reggie, though his role is more administrative than anybody else's. ;) ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Wiki Action Group: first task
On Oct 20, 2009, at 7:58 AM, Dave Neary wrote: > Ryan Abel wrote: > >> On Oct 19, 2009, at 12:05 PM, Dave Neary wrote: >> >>> Thomas Waelti wrote: >>> >>>> (PS: There is also >>>> http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Generalantilles/Sandbox/ >>>> Wiki_Action_Group >>>> which comes up earlier in searches...) >>> Deleted. >> >> Just as a general rule, it is VERY bad form to delete content from a >> user's sandbox without discussing it with them first. ;) > > Surely the quality of search results on maemo.org and wiki.maemo.org > trumps this concern, no? Only to an extent, start with a message on a user's discussion page (or email, if you wish) then move from there the vast majority of people should be more than happy to cooperate, but it's still a good idea to give them a heads up. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Maemo 5 Keymaps - The Saga of Pipe & Tab
Banging my head into the wall on this over the past few days. Seems like it's a newfangled HAL issue, but I haven't been able to divine anything about how I should go about making this thing cooperate. Can somebody who has a clue about this stuff please just throw me a bone here? ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Maemo 5 Keymaps - The Saga of Pipe & Tab
On Oct 15, 2009, at 7:23 AM, Joaquim Rocha wrote: > Matan Ziv-Av wrote: > >> On Thu, 15 Oct 2009, Roald de Vries wrote: >> >> >> This is not exact. It might work in a terminal emulator, but it is >> not a >> universal thing. Tab and Esc are useful in a lot of programs (such as >> Esc for stop current page loading in a browser, and inserting a Tab >> in >> a word processor), and there those CTRL characters do not replace >> them. > > That's alright but you must keep in mind you are not on a desktop > computer and porting an application to Fremantle also passes through > providing alternatives to non-existing keys. I really don't think this > is an issue and I don't mind to press on two buttons to get a keys > dialog instead of using obscure key bindings that aren't even print on > the hardware keyboard. I do, however, and there's little reason to hamstring yourself if there's no need to. :) ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Maemo 5 Keymaps - The Saga of Pipe & Tab
On Oct 14, 2009, at 5:45 PM, Roald de Vries wrote: >> My own picks for remaps (tab I can handle in X Terminal, although >> the shortcut bar no longer editable = more sacrifice for the sake >> of "simplicity") would be < and >. > > And how can you do (bash) command line editing and use vim without > the key (or at least )? fn-backspace for esc, fn-enter for tab, or whatever else you want. The key is, once we figure this out, you can remap to your heart's content. ;) ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Maemo 5 Keymaps - The Saga of Pipe & Tab
On Oct 14, 2009, at 4:37 PM, Joaquim Rocha wrote: > What hardware keyboard layout are you using at the moment? You can > check > this by going to the Settings->Text Input. English, Nederlands (bizarre). Editing the basic en_US character maps in the symbols file had no effect. > Could this end your saga? :) No. It's slow, it's clumsy, it's obnoxious. My standards for text input are, perhaps, a bit high since I managed a "Greased Lightning" rating on the N800 finger keyboard. ;) I _would_ continue using that, but Nokia's managed to introduce another slew of bugs into virtual input (after fixing _most_ of the bad ones from Diablo—although I think some of them are simply eliminated race conditions thanks to faster hardware). This is a pretty trivial thing to do for any Linux distribution running X, and once we manage to figure this out I'd like to try to get a control panel put together to make it easy for anybody to remap. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Maemo 5 Keymaps - The Saga of Pipe & Tab
On Oct 14, 2009, at 4:21 PM, Ville M. Vainio wrote: > On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 11:02 PM, Ryan Abel wrote: > >> So qwerty12 compiled a patched xev, I grabbed keycodes and I spent a >> couple hours trying to convince the device that it'd be a really >> great >> idea for shift-fn-b to send a pipe, for fn-right arrow to send tab, >> and a dozen other shifted and unshifted combinations. > > FWIW, I think selecting those chars from touch screen (fn + sym) isn't > all that bad - probably easier than shift + fn + something. fn + right > would make sense though. I should add, because fn+shift is essentially a single keypress. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Maemo 5 Keymaps - The Saga of Pipe & Tab
On Oct 14, 2009, at 4:21 PM, Ville M. Vainio wrote: > On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 11:02 PM, Ryan Abel wrote: > >> So qwerty12 compiled a patched xev, I grabbed keycodes and I spent a >> couple hours trying to convince the device that it'd be a really >> great >> idea for shift-fn-b to send a pipe, for fn-right arrow to send tab, >> and a dozen other shifted and unshifted combinations. > > FWIW, I think selecting those chars from touch screen (fn + sym) isn't > all that bad - probably easier than shift + fn + something. fn + right > would make sense though. Well, not for me. ;) ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Maemo 5 Keymaps - The Saga of Pipe & Tab
Many people are likely to complain that the N900's 3-row keyboard does not contain enough keys to be usable. Notably missing are important characters like tab and pipe. Now, there _should_ be a relatively straightforward way to fix this with Xmodmap. But as xev wasn't properly setup to receive keypresses when I first began this saga, I started out by trying to edit the symbol files directly. Unfortunately this proved to have no noticeable effect. So qwerty12 compiled a patched xev, I grabbed keycodes and I spent a couple hours trying to convince the device that it'd be a really great idea for shift-fn-b to send a pipe, for fn-right arrow to send tab, and a dozen other shifted and unshifted combinations. End result? Either no effect or outright dead keys. The grapevine tells me that khertan may have had some luck getting things to behave, has anybody else been able to, too? If so, can you enlighten us with your secrets? We have nearly 30 additional characters available with shift-fn and another 6 that have no fn character. It would be great to bind these to some useful purpose. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Nokia hands startup animation
Anybody managed to dig up the hands startup animation? I'd like to start trying to update my boot screen packages for Fremantle. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: extras-testing delay ?
On Oct 9, 2009, at 7:20 PM, gary liquid wrote: > because extras-testing is available on device isnt it ? > > does a user have to enter details for extras-testing and also extras- > devel? > > i was under the impression -testing was included, but disabled by > default? Only Extras should be included (can somebody help Nokia figure out "Maemo Extras" and "Maemo.org Extras Testing" by the way? <_<), Extras- testing should need to be added. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Proposal: XSBC-Bugtracker in debian package
On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Graham Cobb wrote: > On Saturday 29 August 2009 16:23:43 Ryan Abel wrote: >> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 11:15 AM, Graham Cobb wrote: >> > I presume a garage tracker is an acceptable URL. If Ed ever gets the >> > chance to do his "autobuild from garage" proposal he could default this >> > to the associated tracker! >> >> Acceptable, but probably not preferable. I'd like to see everybody >> move as far away from the GForge tracker as possible. ;) > > That is a good point. But people who use garage for development probably > don't have access to any other system for a bug tracker. Maybe "provide > better bug tracker" should be on the wishlist for garage? Or, maybe there > should be a garage section in the Maemo bug tracker? > Well, it hasn't been heavily advertised yet (as the process still requires a lot of overhead), but we're moving to Bugzilla for community bug tracking. The Extras classification on Bugzilla contains all Extras projects (most with Garage projects). Eventually this will be automated, but it'll require some software updates first. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Proposal: XSBC-Bugtracker in debian package
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 11:15 AM, Graham Cobb wrote: > I presume a garage tracker is an acceptable URL. If Ed ever gets the chance > to do his "autobuild from garage" proposal he could default this to the > associated tracker! > Acceptable, but probably not preferable. I'd like to see everybody move as far away from the GForge tracker as possible. ;) ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Maemo Flasher-3.5 Tool Beta for Fremantle and Diablo released
On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 3:44 PM, Kees Jongenburger wrote: >> There's absolutely no reason why not. Really, though, why don't we just open >> source it so we don't have to deal with ANY of this insanity? > > There are other project the 0x flasher out there and not enough people > tried and used it so what is the point? > Define "enough", please. I've certainly seen plenty of people getting good use out of it, so it certainly seems like "enough" to me. If you're expecting a mass migration from a functional, tested manufacturer-provided to an 3rd-party solution of unknown quality which provides little in the way of additional features, well, of course it's not going to be "enough". Really, the right question to be asking is "Why not?". The justifications should be for keeping things closed, not making them open. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Maemo Flasher-3.5 Tool Beta for Fremantle and Diablo released
(Sorry for the terrible quoting. You all knoe exactly how useless an application Modest is. :)) There's absolutely no reason why not. Really, though, why don't we just open source it so we don't have to deal with ANY of this insanity? - Original message - is it possible to do tablet->tablet flashing? (serious question) most of us now have more than one device and since not all of us have linux or windows available (hiya GA), having a native solution would be a possible quicker workaround___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Maemo Flasher-3.5 Tool Beta for Fremantle and Diablo released
On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 2:43 AM, wrote: >>One step forward and two steps back. > > Happy to see that you considered this Beta release to be at least one step > forward (before ending up being one step backward :) > It's hardly every anything else with Nokia. :( >> >>No PPC binary, and the installer will happily chug right along >>without telling users that they're installing something they >>can't even use. > > Only x86 and 32-bit support with this beta release. Could you explain in more > detailed your installation problems. E.g. do you try to install Windows XP or > Windows Vista or Mac OS X 10.x or Debian Linux or some other Linux or ... > I don't use Windows, and, by and large, I don't use Linux. > Or are you trying to install Mac flasher-3.5 to PPC Mac? I do not Mac myself > well enoug to say if architecture can be defined to the Mac installation > package so that you will get some sensible error message if you try to > install "wrong" architecture binary. > Yes, because PPC OS X is basically the only thing I have access to on a regular basis. Yes, you can tell the installer that it should check the architecture. No, you shouldn't be doing that because you should be compiling a PPC binary. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Maemo Flasher-3.5 Tool Beta for Fremantle and Diablo released
On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 8:41 AM, wrote: > The Maemo Eclipse Integration 2nd Edition project has released installation > packages for Maemo Flasher-3.5 Tool Beta for Linuxes, Mac OS X and Windows. > Maemo Flasher-3.5 tool supports flashing of N8x0 Diablo devices and coming > Fremantle devices. > One step forward and two steps back. No PPC binary, and the installer will happily chug right along without telling users that they're installing something they can't even use. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [GSoC 09] IM Client for Canola - report 1
On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 1:16 AM, Thiago Bolaum wrote: > Telepathy: > Barring extreme circumstances, always go with what's bundled on the platform. Especially with resource-limited mobile devices. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Application manager categories for Fremantle
On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 2:42 PM, Joseph Charpak wrote: > On a related note, packagers are doing a good job of not putting > libraries in user/whatever (so they do not appear in blue pill mode), > but we still do have some libwhatever packages in the list. It would be > good to make sure the same thing isn't happening in fremantle. > My plan was to blitz the packagers once the new package categories were shipped with h-a-m, but since this never happened (and maybe never will) the plan is sort of sitting in limbo at the moment. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Application manager categories for Fremantle
On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 6:13 AM, Marius Vollmer wrote: > I think it's time to define the Application manager categories for > Fremantle. This has been done for Diablo here: > >http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Package_categories > > and we should update that page to talk about Fremantle, too, or make a > new one for Fremantle. > Unfortunately we never got a chance to test and tweak our list in Diablo, so a Fremantle list might as well just be the same thing. . . . :( > So, here is a concrete proposed addition to the categories for Fremantle > that we would like to make: > > user/sharing "Sharing plugins" > This has been discussed before, and my stance on it is: absolutely not. Aside from the fact that a sharing plugins category reeks of silly Nokia Ovi nonsense, it's also entirely incongruous with the rest of the categories. I have to get to work, but hopeful Andrew can elaborate more about why it's a bad idea. ;) ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Unique serial number accessible programmatically on device?
- Original message - (or failing that some other unique number like the Bluetooth MAC). Just use the WLAN MAC like Nokia.___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: debmaster priorities
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 3:56 PM, Jeremiah Foster wrote: > > On May 12, 2009, at 14:39, Quim Gil wrote: > >> I think we could have a better prioritization of the tasks of the >> debmaster, if not for this sprint at least for the next(s). > > It would be really great if this type of thing came up in the > meetings, as opposed to afterwards. I'll take the blame on this. I wasn't totally familiar with the task priority stuff going into and didn't really figure it out until about halfway through. > Well, the ITP proposal is finished, and the search, a quick and dirty > hack, was a proof of concept, so I won't be spending any more time on > that. It also has been a wish of developers and users > (https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2495) > Sounds reasonable to me. > I would ask you to contribute to the defined tasks and duties of the > debmaster => http://wiki.maemo.org/Debmaster > > As for "direct support" perhaps I can have a designated time every > week where I show up on #maemo-packaging? And try to answer any > questions? How do people feel about that? > Seems like a good idea, although you'll still need to bracket some time for helping people out over email (hopefully on the lists if possible, or privately if not) since not everybody will be able to attend IRC meetings. > I will update the sprint list for May to reflect the changes. Shall I > change the diablo to fremantle building to 'must'? > I don't really have a strong opinion on this one. It seems like a good idea to me, but I'm happy to leave the decision up to somebody more closely involved with that. > PS - I thought we backlogged the 9.03-04 (contact repos) - I will > backlog that now if there are no objections. > I'll take the blame for this one, too. My eyes were bleeding by the time I managed to get halfway through setting up the May sprint page, so there was sure to be at least one error. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: QA from extras-devel to extras-testing
On Apr 30, 2009, at 10:15 PM, Glen Ditchfield wrote: > Andrew Zabolotny wrote: > >> If package gets at least one >> negative vote, it's out of the queue for extras. > > I think we should require that the negative vote must be linked to a > bug > report with severity "major" or higher. QA could release the > package by > reducing its severity. Assuming the package has a bug tracker, sure. -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council member ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: QA from extras-devel to extras-testing
On Apr 30, 2009, at 3:46 PM, Andrew Zabolotny wrote: > Then the QA team members can look somehow at the list of "ready" > packages and test any of them. After they test a package, they may > "vote" somehow their opinion (with a optional field where they can go > into details what they like/didn't). If package gets at least one > negative vote, it's out of the queue for extras. If package gets, say, > 10 positive votes (the number is to be determined experimentally), > it's > automatically moved to extras. The could be a modification to the Extras promoter, perhaps. -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council member ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Problems Updating N810
On Apr 29, 2009, at 7:49 PM, Kenneth Loafman wrote: > I'm having two problems and they may be related... > > 1) When I try to bring up a "New Web Browser Window" on the N810, it > comes up with a blank screen and a dialog that says "Updating". > After a > few minutes, both the dialog and the screen go away with no sign of > what > went wrong. /etc/init.d/tablet-browser-daemon restart Should fix it for you. -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council member ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: New home for Easy Debian?
On Apr 27, 2009, at 2:58 PM, Marius Vollmer wrote: > ext Qole writes: > >> At this point, garage.maemo.org doesn't allow file uploads of the >> size >> I need (maximum 150MB files there). > > You could try asking for an exception. Yours seems like a worthy > cause. Or just raising the limits. We can always beg hardware from Tero later. ;) -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council member ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: mafw, trackerd and apps with external media files ?
On Apr 22, 2009, at 6:27 PM, Attila Csipa wrote: > On Wednesday 22 April 2009 23:48:29 you wrote: > >> Mafw shows the clips that are provided by tracker, and tracker has >> predefined a set of directories where to look for media files. > > I see. Does this predefined set of directories perchance include the > memory > card(s) mount point(s) in fremantle ? I'm asking this because there > is a > growing tendency among packages (especially games) in extras to toss > their > media files to mmc1 or mmc2, already wreaking havoc on Canola and > metalayer-crawler. I don't know if you know (sounds like you don't), but /home will be mounted on the internal card in Fremantle. So, presumably, /home/user/ MyDocs/.sounds would be one logical choice. -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council member ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Transitioning to the new package categories
On Apr 15, 2009, at 3:03 AM, Quim Gil wrote: > ext Ryan Abel wrote: > >> I'd like to propose that we start actively transitioning to the new >> categories in the beginning of May > > Note that first we should get a one and only list of categories. Now > we > seem to have 3 (Community proposal, Maemo policy and Fremantle current > build): https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3844#c6 I've discussed the policy change with the policy team (Eero, et al.), but as the policy follows the tools, it can't be updated until Fremantle is released or a Diablo update is pushed. So both the policy and the community were waiting for Nokia. My only comment for Nokia's "lets do random things to the list of categories with no discussion" is that the community list is the only truly valid one. If they'd like to see it changed, they need to come out and discuss it (-community or the wiki being the appropriate places for that), otherwise, it's just not valid. -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council member ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Transitioning to the new package categories
I've been waiting for Nokia to ship the new package categories in a Diablo update to begin spamming maintainers to start transitioning to the new list, but as it seems clear that this list will never ship for Diablo, there's no point in waiting any longer.[1][2] I'd like to propose that we start actively transitioning to the new categories in the beginning of May (maintainers are encouraged to update before then, especially as it has the potential to spare you from a bit of spam ;)). Since a lot of spam will be going out anyway, we might want to consider using it to address some other packaging issues at the same time. Primarily the use of Maemo-specific fields, but also, potentially, a general auditing of all packages in Extras (the metrics for which will have to be put together by somebody more experienced with packaging than I). So, does the transition and the timeframe sound good to everybody? Does the auditing sound like a useful endeavor? If so, what sort of metrics should be used? [1]http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Package_categories [2]https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3836#c11 [3]http://hildon-app-mgr.garage.maemo.org/packaging-stable.html -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council member ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Fremantle extras?
On Mar 6, 2009, at 8:38 AM, Murray Cumming wrote: > On Fri, 2009-03-06 at 07:14 -0500, Ryan Abel wrote: > >> [1]http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2009-February/003336.html > > I did (and I joined that mailing list after finding it via google), > but > I didn't see a clear conclusion or any statement that it has been > done. It hasn't been done yet. It's waiting on the autobuilder, and Niels just got the appropriate access this morning. I'm fairly certain it should be done soon-ish, though (Niels or Jeremiah can give a better status update). -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Fremantle extras?
On Mar 6, 2009, at 5:58 AM, Murray Cumming wrote: > Are there already working Mameo Fremantle extras-devel and extras > repositories and the corresponding build/promotion system? Please see the relevant thread on maemo-community.[1] [1]http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2009-February/003336.html -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Frets on Fire on Fremantle
On Mar 5, 2009, at 4:16 AM, Jose Manrique Lopez de la Fuente wrote: > So, no multitouch screen.. right? ;-) No. (Something we've know for a while, actually. ;)) -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: 3G model?
(Taking this back on-list) On Feb 18, 2009, at 10:10 AM, Dave Sherohman wrote: > I was going on the previously-posted link, > http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i > -january_2009-part_ii/ > which mostly consists of speculation about "interesting things about > the > potential hardware that weren't contained in the not-announcement from > the Summit (of course all pre-release information isn't to be taken as > any sort of announcement and is subject to change)." I put in those disclaimers to keep people from interpreting it as an official announcement, but this is the information from the kernel code for the device Nokia is currently working on. Lacking an official hardware announcement, this is all very strong indication of what we can expect from the next device. > I haven't looked up Summit transcripts, but I'm assuming that a > "not-announcement" is not an official announcement of an upcoming > product. It's not the official hardware announcement, but it is an announcement of their intentions for the next device. Please read over the LinuxDevices link. > Even if the product has been officially announced, though, people > speculating last month on "potential hardware" to be included is a > pretty strong indication that it's not going to be released in the > next > few months. Are you sure? The alpha SDK with the new UI is coming soon, and the beta SDK should be expected in May. We're not very far away from a release. > For my immediate purposes (i.e., deciding whether I need to > get a 3G Skype phone now as an adjunct to my N800 or if I can get away > with waiting until an N800-plus-universally-accessible-internet device > is released), that's really all that matters. No announced release > date > means it won't be out soon enough for me to skip the Skype phone and > only carry one device. That's fine, but I want to be sure you and everybody reading this list understands that these aren't unsubstantiated rumors. Nokia has announced their intentions, and they're working on the software. We're getting a new device, and we're getting it within the next 6 months. An awful lot of people on here seem to be entirely ignorant of these facts, so I recommend that you do some reading up on the links that Andrew and I have provided in this thread. . . . -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: 3G model?
On Feb 18, 2009, at 9:21 AM, Dave Sherohman wrote: > But it looks like the 3G tablet is just rumors at this point, so > carrying two separate devices it is. Ah, well. How do you figure, exactly? Ari Jaaksi (the head of Maemo SW) announced plans for a 3G tablet at the OSiM last year, there's code for it in linux-omap, and you can watch the Fremantle development as it happens.[1][2][3] I'm not sure what more you want outside of a full product announcement that would substantiate this for you. . . . [1]http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9093153240.html [2]http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2008/09/nokia-unveils-maemo-roadmap-plans-for-3g-internet-tablet.ars [3]http://maemo.org/news/announcements/07a262bcedec11ddabdc07d2d12051a151a1/ -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Maemo on Google Summer of Code 09 - Help needed
On Feb 17, 2009, at 7:42 AM, Valerio Valerio wrote: > First we need ideas/application improvements, the ideas doesn't need > to be a new application or a killer framework that a student can't > done in 3 month, but can be improvements in existent application or > small tasks that can be archived in 3 months. Oh, right, mad props to the first person to get a virtual lightsaber going on the RX-51. ;) -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Maemo on Google Summer of Code 09 - Help needed
On Feb 17, 2009, at 11:21 AM, Denis Smolyar wrote: > On Tuesday 17 February 2009 17:42:17 Valerio Valerio wrote: > >> First we need ideas/application improvements > > i don't see any nice alarm for maemo... cron? without giu i can't > use them > from maemo. https://garage.maemo.org/projects/alarmd/ -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Email addresses in debian/changelog
On Feb 17, 2009, at 8:17 AM, Jeremiah Foster wrote: > How does this sound? Sounds wonderfully sensible. ;) Quim? Soumya? -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: "Opt-in" betas in the Application Manager
On Feb 9, 2009, at 3:27 AM, Marius Vollmer wrote: > However, Debian experimental is not Debian unstable, and I have the > feeling that Maemo extras-devel can't really decide for itself whether > it wants to be more like Debian experimental or more like Debian > unstable. > > Extras-devel is used both for smoke testing of new 'point-releases' > before they are unleashed onto the masses and also for beta releases > that will never go to the masses and should only be installed by > people > who know what they are getting themselves into. > > So, disabling automatic upgrades from extras-devel will make smoke > testing less effective. I guess the next question, then, (which arguably belongs over on - community) is whether it's time to add a third section to Extras. -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
"Opt-in" betas in the Application Manager (was Re: Application Manager and Extras-devel: Dealing with unstable software)
On Jan 23, 2009, at 12:05 PM, Guillem Jover wrote:
>> Those issues aside, what can we do at an application level to improve
>> the user experience here? An opt-in system for Extras-devel updates
>> and installs might be useful (rather than offering the Extras-devel
>> version, the user has to request it specifically), visual cues to a
>> packages origin (color coding, a small icon) and notices might also
>> help ("this package is unstable software, and may contain many
>> significant bugs, are you sure you want to install it?"), or even
>> some
>> sort of apt pinning system to ignore certain updates.
>
> And this is already solved in Debian, by just marking experimental as
> to not be used to automatically upgrade packages from there. Apt will
> pin it down to priority 1, while unstable has normally priority 500.
> The only needed thing is to add an “NotAutomatic: yes” field in the
> Release file for experimental.
>
> So, with this, one can select to upgrade to a specific version from
> experimental, but this needs to be explicit. Otherwise no other
> package
> will be upgraded from there.
OK, this is good (yet again betraying my ignorance of proper
Debian ;)), now, how should this be implement in the Application
Manager?
(Related, I've filled http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4081 for
ignoring specific updates)
--
Ryan Abel
Maemo Community Council chair
___
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Re: Fremantle won't run on N800/N810?! (was Maemo for commercial development (was Re: N810 RIP) )
- Original message - I don't recall if there was talk about a Nokia-provided hacker edition of Fremantle. I suspect there won't be, as it didn't gather a lot of community development on the 770 and with projects like Mer creating a community-supported build already, I suspect Nokia will focus on getting them the resources they need to improve their offering. Yes, there's been quite a lot of talk and it's been decided that Mer is the best way forward. No silly Nokia 'quality' requirements, so the community will be much more capable of bringing the backport to OMAP2 (and other) hardware. Nokia is going to be providing an unprecidented level of support to facilitate Mer.___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: N810 RIP
On Jan 29, 2009, at 9:30 PM, Jeffrey Barish wrote: > Judging from the clearance pricing of the N810 at buy.com ($219.99), I > surmise that Nokia has now discontinued it as well as the N800 and > the N810 > Wimax Edition. So, let's see. That leaves... nothing. Nothing but > fond > memories of 2 years spent developing for a platform that no longer > exists. Well, I suppose ignorance can be forgiven since an announcement hasn't actually been made yet, but I'd recommend reading up a bit before you jump to the melodrama.[1][2][3][4] [1]http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9093153240.html [2]http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i-january_2009-part_ii/ [3]http://maemo.org/news/announcements/07a262bcedec11ddabdc07d2d12051a151a1/ [4]http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_roadmap/Fremantle -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Aptitude for Maemo
On Jan 23, 2009, at 9:03 PM, Nathan Summers wrote: > On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Kamen Bundev > wrote: > >> Aptitude is just another frontend for apt. There is already one apt- >> based >> application manager in the distribution, every other is just waste of >> precious space. > > This is like saying that a Porsche is just another box with wheels on > it, so if you already own an apple cart, a Porsche is just a waste of > garage space. To continue the analogy, for most people, a Porsche is going to be a waste. They wont be able to drive it well (heck, depending on the Porsche, they may not even be able to drive it _safely_), they wont appreciate it and it doesn't help them get from point A to point B any better than the apple cart (or, more appropriately, the Toyota). It does, however, suck up money and space. So, yes, again, for most tablet owners, aptitude is just a waste of space. -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Aptitude for Maemo
On Jan 23, 2009, at 11:53 AM, Guillem Jover wrote: > On Fri, 2009-01-23 at 11:27:41 -0500, Ryan Abel wrote: > >> On Jan 23, 2009, at 11:23 AM, Jonathan Marsaud wrote: >> >>> In my humble opinion, aptitude should be added to the main seed of >>> Maemo; why is it not already the case? >> >> Because 95% of Maemo users would never use it and flash space isn't >> free? > > But being on the repository does not imply being installed by default. > I think the former is what Jonathan tried to say. Not my interpretation of "seed" I guess. I'm sure Eugene will upload it to Extras when he's ready. -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Aptitude for Maemo
On Jan 23, 2009, at 11:23 AM, Jonathan Marsaud wrote: > In my humble opinion, aptitude should be added to the main seed of > Maemo; why is it not already the case? Because 95% of Maemo users would never use it and flash space isn't free? -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: maemo 5 on OMAP3 dev board
On Jan 17, 2009, at 8:13 PM, Mike Turquette wrote: > I'm a developer at Texas Instruments. I'm interested in building as > many pieces of Maemo 5 (especially Hildon) as possible for some of our > OMAP3 development boards. Nokia is (or was, they've likely moved on to their own hardware by now) using Beagle Boards for internal testing, so it's certainly a feasible thing. > I'd prefer to use OpenEmbedded for building out of SVN, however a > quick glance through Nokia's repositories is a bit overwhelming. Is > there an easy guide to way out, Maemo has its own SDK, the version of which for Fremantle is currently in pre-alpha.[1][2] > 1) what software in > https://stage.maemo.org/viewcvs.cgi/projects/haf/trunk/?root=maemo is > currently maintained and will be used in Maemo 5? You want http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/ This table may also be useful, though: http://repository.maemo.org/unstable/fremantle/maemo4.1.1_vs_5.0prealpha_content_comparison.html > 2) is there a document of any kind detailing how to build a root fs > from these pieces, or is that left as an exercise ot the reader? The current release of Maemo 5 is an SDK-only release, so it's meant to be used for development on a PC. A rootfs image that might be flashed onto a real device will likely be forthcoming once a real device is available. For the time being, the pre-alpha doesn't contain all of the components that will be shipping with the final release. Most notably, it's still using the Diablo UI (the Fremantle UI will be revealed in May-ish when the Beta SDK is released). > 3) is anyone doing anything like I am mentioning (specifically with > OE)? I know there are some recipes for Maemo 4, but they are quite > deprecated (though I've gotten a fair number of them to build with > small modifications). I don't know of anybody working with OE to build Maemo. Maemo has a fairly mature and workable SDK, so I can't see anybody being very inclined to put the work into hamming another build system into submission. Probably what you really want to do is talk to the Mer guys, as their work coincides more closely with your goals, I think, than Nokia's.[3] [4] [1]http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo5_prealpha_main/ [2]http://maemo.org/news/announcements/first_maemo_5_sdk_release_targeting_platform_developers/ [3]http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint [4]http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint_New -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: N810 WE
On Jan 15, 2009, at 3:13 PM, ma...@bitblit.net wrote: > On Thu, 15 Jan 2009, Erik Hovland wrote: > >> Nokia >> has already said they are working on the next gen tablet. > > Any details? A url? http://planet.maemo.org is a URL everybody should pay attention to. ;) http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i-january_2009-part_ii/ -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Browserd consumes too much CPU on N810 - OS 2008 (5.2008.43)
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 10:09 AM, Andrea Grandi wrote: > If you try to load Facebook.com website, the situation is even worse: > it takes about 85% CPU simply doing nothing. > Is it _actually_ doing nothing, or do you just _think_ it's doing nothing and, in fact, it's _actually_ running a ton of crappy JavaScript and Flash applets? :) Have you tried turning off js and Flash and then looking at the CPU usage? ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Feature upgrade has given me the bluez - users must remove my app to upgrade
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:04 PM, tz wrote: > This is why NOKIA has to link the tools/sdk packages instead of me > doing so in extras. > Actually, no, this is why you shouldn't put packages that don't belong in a section with a user/ prefix in user/. . . . Application Manager won't replace packages in user/ with packages that aren't in user/. It's as simple as that. > I can't even retrieve osso7 using apt-get source! It keeps getting osso4. > That tends to happen when you're fetching from the wrong repository. http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.1.2/free/b/bluez-utils/ ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Application Manager and Extras-devel: Dealing with unstable software
- Original message - First, I assume you mean before pushing it into the STABLE repository. No. Extras-Devel is for betas, unstable, and things which aren't ready for the general user to access. If I have something there I usually if not always leave a note to TURN THE REPOSITORY OFF after grabbing my code or doing any updates. Trying to recurse to extras-devel-devel extras-devel-devel-devel by other names is not going to help. If bleeding edge user is not willing to wait one or two weeks for the software to be promoted to extras and is not willing to invest the time and effort of dealing with active pre-release repositories (consider MS service pack betas or Ubuntu alphas or nonstandard updates) there is nothing reasonable to be done. Extras-devel is already a safety system, and an effective one when used properly. The user has the options: 1. Wait until it is officially promoted to Extras 2. Learn to deal with having Extras-Devel active (maybe a FAQ or HOWTO would help) 3. Blow themselves up. So, basically, your solution is 'do nothing because people should know better'? It doesn't matter what you tell people, they'll leave it enabled anyway. Why WOULDN'T you do something if there's a reasonably simple software solution?___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Application Manager and Extras-devel: Dealing with unstable software
On Nov 26, 2008, at 5:00 AM, Sarah Newman wrote: > Disclaimer: I have little practice with pinning packages. If Maemo > doesn't support this feature from Debian (haven't tried it yet,) then > maybe it should. It does, it just lacks UI support in h-a-m. -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Application Manager and Extras-devel: Dealing with unstable software
Let's say you've got a user, and this user wants to get to something
shiny, but the only place this something shiny is available is from an
unstable testing repository. Normally this unstable testing repository
would not be the sort of place this user would venture into, but the
application is only there because a few minor packaging issues have to
be wrapped up (maybe the l10n is split up into a bunch of separate
packages); or there's just a few more bugs they want to stomp out; or
they want to give it a week or two of testing before they push it to
the unstable repository--whatever, so the user decides (perhaps with
the encouragement of some of their peers) to dive in, add the unstable
repository and install the application.
So the application installs and runs fine. Perhaps they encounter a
few of those small bugs that are still being worked on, but nothing
serious. A few weeks pass without issue, and they see a notification
for some new updates to a few of their favorite applications, go to
install them and BAM! one wont install due to a messed up postinst,
the next now crashes on start and the last now randomly loses data.
What happened? Developers using that unstable testing repository as an
unstable testing repository uploaded some new unstable versions of
their applications for some testing, and our poor user ended up as
collateral damage. So the question is, what can we do to protect users
from the full fury of Extras-devel while still giving them reasonable
access to some of the stabler applications in the repository?
Clearly there are a few issues at play here: developers moving
software to Extras-devel before it's ready (critical crasher or data-
lose bugs, etc), developers leaving applications in Extras-devel for
too long (no real bugs, just sitting there unpromoted), and Extras
lacking a finer granularity of stability levels. The first two can be
dealt with (up to a point) through developer education, but the last
can't really be addressed (although I'd be interested if there's any
history or particular inertia behind the 2-tier setup we have now).
Simple user education will also have a large effect (yes, you can
install this, but disable this repository when you're done).
Those issues aside, what can we do at an application level to improve
the user experience here? An opt-in system for Extras-devel updates
and installs might be useful (rather than offering the Extras-devel
version, the user has to request it specifically), visual cues to a
packages origin (color coding, a small icon) and notices might also
help ("this package is unstable software, and may contain many
significant bugs, are you sure you want to install it?"), or even some
sort of apt pinning system to ignore certain updates.
What are your ideas?
--
Ryan Abel
Maemo Community Council chair
___
maemo-developers mailing list
maemo-developers@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Let's make a deal . . .
. . . by the time the Fremantle Beta SDK is released next Spring, there will be an @nokia address watching every open-source Maemo Software product in bugs.maemo.org. In return, the community will continue triaging, testing and deflecting incoming bugs, helping to manage old bugs, and providing patches. Is this an unreasonable request? Really, I don't think all of you understand quite how frustrating (and demotivating) it is filing bugs into a black hole, where they'll sit until they die of old age or end up WONTFIXed after they've been ignored long enough to miss the window to be fixed. All I ask is that when I file a new bug into a Nokia-owned product on Bugzilla, an email will be sent to an @nokia address. I don't even care very much whether that @nokia even reads it, I just want to know that someone, somewhere at Nokia has received information about my bug. And why wouldn't you? By ignoring Bugzilla, you're missing out on a huge resource--hundreds of dedicated users, testers, and developers willing to test your software, file bugs for you, and work with you (often quite tirelessly) to make your software great. Some of these people are even willing to provide patches to make your life even easier. All you need to do to utilize this resource is contribute 20 or 30 minutes a week to bugs.maemo.org Simple, isn't it? :) -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Application manager category view proposals
On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 10:39 AM, Marius Vollmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > So, for the new categories to be officially adopted, we need > translations to all the supported languages: > >en_GB es_MX nl_NL pt_BR no_NO fi_FI it_IT fr_CA >da_DK en_US pt_PT sv_SE fr_FR es_ES ru_RU de_DE > > for these categories: > >desktop education graphics navigation network science >system utilities > > I frankly have no idea how realistic it is to get Nokia involved in this > for Diablo. Can we proceed without Nokia? Translations is something > that communities are traditionally quite good at. Also, we might lift > translations from Gnome or KDE, right? > There's a table on the wiki now: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Package_categories#Translations I'll start poking people about it (translations poured in pretty quickly when we put in a call for Advanced Backlight). I can dump them to a more accessible format as they come in if you'd like. > (More on Application specific subcategories from my side later. Don't > know what to think about them yet... using the Section field for them > seems like a even worse abuse than the oiginal user/CATGEORY hack...) > Yeah, I guess the advantage of using the section field is entirely for short term gain, in that it doesn't require the use of debtags or something similar, but as the UI work to get subcategories to be useful is non-trivial, it's probably worth doing it cleanly the first time around. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: What category should network filesystems like OpenAFS go under?
On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 2:02 PM, tz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If the whole application manager apt-get dists debian system is going > to be so brittle that the only SAFE way to get an application on to > your system is with Application Manager in blue-pill mode, then there > should be a user/cli category or something. > apt-get upgrade wont break your system if you're not fetching from every insane repository you can find. An apt-get dist-upgrade, on the other hand, will break things when it pulls in coreutils if you have the SDK repository enabled, but Nokia is very clear about that not being intended for the device. Red Pill and SDK repos are a misdirection, please leave them out of this discussion, as they aren't relevant here. The question is: Should console-only applications be sorted into a user/-prefix category? Yes, but the distinction should be between "root" and "non-root" packages. Stuff like SSH, nano, rootsh, zip/unzip, irssi, etc.--clearly user-oriented applications should appear in user/*, but stuff like bluez-utils-test, and developer-oriented stuff really shouldn't. Again, if you've got issues with the setup of the SDK repo, or your particular decisions regarding dependencies, then those are separate issues than whether certain system and CLI packages should be user-visible. Either get the Tools repo moved to Extras, or upload the dependencies you need yourself, but don't be user-hostile by trying to solve these issues breaking the categorization. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Beyond Application Manager Categories
On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 9:28 AM, Marius Vollmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > But the current AM is a pretty unfriendly place for browsing a long list > of available applications. In the past, I kept saying that I don't want > the AM to turn into a portal for applications, that should be left to > the browser. We have downloads.maemo.org, which is this portal. Are > people using it? As a thought experiment, could we remove the "Browse > installable applications" button from the AM and get by with just > downloads.maemo.org? Should we work on better integration? > Downloads.maemo.org could use information from the device to give a view > that is nicely tailored to each device. > I really hate browsing Downloads on the device. .installs are awkward, Downloads is slow and irritating and the browser just isn't responsive enough. My personal desire is to see h-a-m become similar to the AppStore as the one-stop-shop for applications and packages. Native applications will always be faster, slicker and more usable than a web-based equivalent. Especially on a mobile device. > Applications might want to do their own add-on management, or want to > defer to a central application that is good at it. For example, the > theme selector could list available themes in addition to the installed > ones. The media player might be able to figure out that a codec add-on > is missing and offer to install it. This goes into the direction of > PackageKit and "package management as a system service". Something to > keep in mind. It'll take some non-trivial amount of work and > commitment. > I like this idea, but the implementation sounds rather involved. Maybe something to target for farther down the road, but not really something I see as realistic in the Fremantle timeframe. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Proposal for Diablo's authoritative list of package categories
Just a heads up. The list will be finalized tomorrow and make its way to the packaging policy (hopefully) by the end of the week. Any changes after tomorrow should be proposed on the wiki page.[1] [1]https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Package_categories -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Projects Nokia should support (yours?)
On Nov 1, 2008, at 5:47 AM, Simon Pickering wrote: > Something with more mileage, though still not really a killer app, > would be working on optimisation of the backend libs that all three > media players use (therefore any media player would benefit). But this > will have to wait until we see what the hardware is capable of really. Considering the hardware is already doing 720p with only NEON optimizations, well. . . . -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Projects Nokia should support (yours?)
On Oct 31, 2008, at 10:17 AM, tz wrote: > Nokia has already said they will never support it > out of the box, so the next best thing would be to have something > available to fully integrate it. It's coming in Maemo 5. -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: AM features (was Re: Application Manager, debtags and Tracker)
On Oct 31, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Quim Gil wrote: >> That said, I think we can outline a few of the more general ideas >> that >> we would like to see for Fremantle. > > Exactly. We are asking for features: things that can be described in a > single text paragraph. UI concepts or mock-ups are not needed (unless > you are having fun making them, of course). I've always found visual aides more effective than just text when describing UI ideas. Besides, it's good practice. -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: AM features (was Re: Application Manager, debtags and Tracker)
On Oct 30, 2008, at 7:44 AM, Quim Gil wrote: > Can you please come up with a basic community plan for the Fremantle > application manager by November 10th? Please summarize your feature > proposals and project expectations e.g. at > http://wiki.maemo.org/User:GeneralAntilles/Improving_the_Application_manager I moved it out of my userspace: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Improving_the_Application_manager -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: AM features (was Re: Application Manager, debtags and Tracker)
On Oct 30, 2008, at 7:44 AM, Quim Gil wrote: > Can you please come up with a basic community plan for the Fremantle > application manager by November 10th? Please summarize your feature > proposals and project expectations e.g. at > http://wiki.maemo.org/User:GeneralAntilles/Improving_the_Application_manager Well, lacking anything particularly concrete UI-wise from Nokia bout Fremantle, it's hard to come up with a unified, specific plan. Especially as it seems a lot of the standing UI paradigms will be either drastically altered or done away with entirely. The base we'd be working from on that page also predates the Summit announcements, and isn't particularly ambitious (I was thinking more in terms of "what I'd realistically like to see in the Diablo Application Manager, keeping in mind Nokia's usual resistance to changes like these" and not "My kickass vision for the perfect Application Manager"). That said, I think we can outline a few of the more general ideas that we would like to see for Fremantle. Tracker meta-data integration for searching with debtags, etc; AppStore-like integration with Downloads that includes, ratings, comments and "Fresh" packages; change the package info dialog from a dialog to a whole screen that will contain Downloads integration, screenshots, descriptions, etc (think something along the lines of how AppStore or Rhapsody does it); multiple category views (tree, grid, etc). Those sorts of things. -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Application Manager, debtags and Tracker
One of the potential solutions discussed during the package categories task was using debtags. The benefit of using debtags is clear, much better meta-data for each package without having to rely on a potentially incomplete and imperfect list of categories. The problem, of course, is what sort of interface do you put in front of them? Tag clouds are the obvious option, but they have their own set of issues, some of which are particularly pronounced on a touchscreen device. Some implementations leave a lot to be desired.[1] So, what if instead of using debtags as a replacement for sections, we use them as a supplement to them--but not necessarily for browsing (though I would like to see some sort of cloud view coded up). With Tracker in Fremantle and debtags, we have an interesting set of metadata we can search to find applications. For instance, say I wanted to see all of the solitaire games available on the platform. I can either tap on "Browse installable applications", then "Games" and see the solitaire stuff mixed in with the other games.[2] _Or_ I can type "solitaire" into a search box, and bring up all of the matching packages.[3] This gives you an interesting (and potentially more convenient) way to find the applications you want (assuming the meta-data is usefully complete, of course). Without having to dig around looking (though browsing by categories should still be an option). [1]http://debtags.alioth.debian.org/cloud/ [2]https://wiki.maemo.org/Image:Main-view-mockup.png [3]https://wiki.maemo.org/Image:Tag-search-mockup.png -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: App manager open development (was Re: Proposal for Diablo's authoritative list of package categories)
On Oct 30, 2008, at 3:41 AM, Quim Gil wrote: > ext Ryan Abel wrote: >> Yes, a structured plan with enough open-endedness to keep the >> creativity >> flowing would be best. A Diablo-based community branch (perhaps >> combined >> with osv-c) might be helpful as a test-bed for some of the wilder >> ideas >> before pushing them to the proper Fremantle development branch. > > osv-c? (osso-software-version-community) This: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_Community_distribution > Also, would it make sense to have stable/unstable branches for > Fremantle? Ideally there would be a stable branch accomplishing all > the > requirements and deadlines agreed with the Fremantle program, and > then a > unstable branch installable and testable on the SDK. Relevant > additions > and changes in unstable ought to be approved first internally before > going to stable. This is one of the things I envisioned the community distribution providing, but if it's integrated with Nokia's development process, then all the better. Beta releases are something the community has been after for a long time, so this seems like a great idea. Hopefully the unstable branch will also be installable and testable on devices, though, as the limited platform support of the SDK makes it hard for some people to use it. > In my previous email I forgot to mention the text strings. There is a > localization process that needs to translate any changes in NN > languages. Think it twice before changing/adding any text string and > be > aware that at some point no string changes will be accepted unless > they > are bugfixes. Yes, string changes may end up being quite a pain (which is, again, where a community branch will come in handy as a testing ground not restricted by Nokia's release requirements). About how many languages are we talking about currently? > Maybe Marius wants to consider following the maemo.org monthly sprints > to organize community tasks this way? e.g. Call for features to be > completed during the November sprint. A possibility, but I'm a little worried about overloading the Sprints with too many disparate projects (the IRC meeting in particular). Perhaps simply breaking the Sprint into smaller sub-sections would work, though (maemo.org/Council and open development of Maemo Software stuff). >> Modest and MicroB (including the UI) are the two other products I'd >> like >> to see use this open development model though both are probably >> somewhat >> more ambitious is scale (though even more important than Application >> Manager as far as the basic user's trifecta). Modest, in particular, >> didn't seem to do all that well on its first run through as a >> Nokia-developed UI, and the community certainly has a few ideas for >> its >> improvement. > > I would add the RSS feed reader myself... Yes, it slipped my mind mostly because I don't use it, which is mostly because it pretty much sucks. ;) > But please create enhancement requests for the products you want to > see > moving to open development, and assign them to me. We will discuss > with > the related teams and see how and when would this make sense. Something like http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3836 ? > It was good to start with the AM in this casual way and it fits well > the > purpose of a pilot. If we are increasing the list (and the shared > responsibilities) it is better to do it with some more planning, > though. A wise plan. -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Proposal for Diablo's authoritative list of package categories
On Oct 29, 2008, at 8:50 AM, Simon Pickering wrote: >> - Development worklow? Do you want to have a structured >> process with an >> agreed set of features in scope, a UI plan and so on or do you see >> better to continue the ad hoc approach of discussion+patches? >> Specially >> if you expect us providing i.e. nice icons this is not something that >> needs more planning from our side. > > I think some formalised set of features would be useful, especially > to draw > in more developers (so they know what's going on and who's doing > what and > what they could do). Though we should leave it somewhat open-ended > and allow > extra features to be added to that formalised set as and when they > come up > and are discussed (otherwise people might get bored as they can't > hack on > what they want to do). Yes, a structured plan with enough open-endedness to keep the creativity flowing would be best. A Diablo-based community branch (perhaps combined with osv-c) might be helpful as a test-bed for some of the wilder ideas before pushing them to the proper Fremantle development branch. >> - Collaboration channels? Do you want something like a garage >> environment + git + bugs.maemo.org or do you prefer to continue the >> thread in maemo-developers? > > Personally I'd prefer a Garage project/environment, that way it's all > centralised rather than being mixed in with the more general > maemo-developers list. -developers is a bit too schizophrenic for a concerted development effort, so Garage + git + bugs.maemo.org sounds nice. I'd like to toss IRC into the mix there, as impromptu brainstorming and braindumping sessions there tend to be very productive for me, but I realize most people simply don't have the time for it. Modest and MicroB (including the UI) are the two other products I'd like to see use this open development model though both are probably somewhat more ambitious is scale (though even more important than Application Manager as far as the basic user's trifecta). Modest, in particular, didn't seem to do all that well on its first run through as a Nokia-developed UI, and the community certainly has a few ideas for its improvement. -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Needing help with dead unit.
On Oct 29, 2008, at 11:10 AM, Tim Ashman wrote: > I tried the linux manual way. I went to my other computer > downloaded the > flash command utility and proceeded to the "get the image" page. I > entered > in my WLAN ID and the page reports that it is not a valid product. > Great. Did you go to the correct page for your unit? -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Proposal for Diablo's authoritative list of package categories
On Oct 28, 2008, at 9:13 PM, Glen Ditchfield wrote: > Ryan Abel wrote: >> KeyEnglish i18n Examples >> user/development ProgrammingPy2Deb > > In the other 10 cases, the English string is the same as the tail > end of the > key. For consistency, could the English string in this case > be "Development"? Well, it's consistent with other desktop Linux distributions. I'm not particularly attached to either one, though. "Programming" does seem a bit clearer for non-technical folks. What is "development" real estate development? Development aid? New developments? [1]http://newbiedoc.berlios.de/images/9/93/Debian-menu-xman.png [2]http://michaelboman.org/wiki/images/3/3b/Ubuntu-Menu-Applications-Internet-Vodafone.png -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Proposal for Diablo's authoritative list of package categories
On Oct 28, 2008, at 11:18 AM, Andrew Flegg wrote: > However, although I think the new UI is an improvement, it shouldn't > be the UI which gets into fremantle's Application Manager for the > default starting point of installing an app; it should be *much* > prettier, with icons 'n' stuff. Clearly, and I hope Nokia backs up their claims of increased openness for Fremantle RSN. The community has plans, Nokia, but they're really hard to act on unless we know what you're up to. Help us to help you. :) -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Proposal for Diablo's authoritative list of package categories
I'll note that I've added user/science ScienceScientific and engineering applications To the list on the wiki at the request of Yves (who, presumably, accidentally emailed me directly off-list). I figure it makes sense to have a Science section if we have an Education section (though, currently, none of the scientific applications are in Extras). Particularly as we only have 11 categories at the moment, and 12 categories visible without scrolling in h-a-m in windowed mode. On that note, in windowed mode, there are 12 category buttons visible on-screen with Jaffa's patch, but the 5th line (which would bring us to 15 categories) is almost (but not quite) completely visible on screen. Does anybody think it would be worthwhile (or possible?) to shave a few pixels off the vertical height of the buttons to completely fit the 5th line on screen in windowed mode? Or just leave it as-is and let people switch to fullscreen if they're really bothered by it? -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Proposal for Diablo's authoritative list of package categories
On Oct 28, 2008, at 10:34 AM, Marius Vollmer wrote: > "ext Ryan Abel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> So after a fair bit of discussion, we've arrive at a suitable list of >> package categories: > > Excellent! Just for completeness, what about also listing "All" and > "Others"? These need to be translated as well, but maybe it is better > to keep them out of the list. Yeah, I guess those are implied. I was avoiding putting Other on the list as I wanted to encourage people to either use a valid category, or get whatever category they want to use (and believe should be valid) onto the list, rather than having user/other as a catch-all fallback section for lazy packagers. So while they should be valid, localized sections from h-a-m's point of view, they shouldn't be valid sections for packages (I don't want to see any debs with user/other or user/all ;)). -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Application manager category view proposals
On Oct 28, 2008, at 10:30 AM, Marius Vollmer wrote: > "ext Andrew Flegg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 11:33 AM, Ryan Abel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >>> >> [forcing packages to comply with the "definitive" package list] >>> >>> The reason I like doing this Application Manager-side is that it >>> forces >>> compliance even for stuff not going through the autobuilder or >>> Extras. This >>> prevents both Nokia and 3rd party repositories from being evil and >>> corrupting the category view. >> >> Indeed, that's a very strong argument for it. > > Okay, let's do it then! :) > >> Having thought about it a bit more, I think there are 3 realistic >> scenarios: >> >>1) Force the Application Manager to do it, based on a simple rule >> like having an i18n label defined. > > This is clever! Too clever? We could start with this: I could quite > easily add a setting that enables this behavior. Should it be on or > off > by default? Jaffa made the relevant point on IRC (by the way, where've you been, mvo? :() that option 3 is probably overengineering it a bit, and that simply letting the Application Manager have an internal list is really all we need. Honestly, how often are we really going to want to modify that list? It'd be wise to wait for i18n if we do add sections, anyway, so waiting for the next SSU push wont kill anybody. >>3) Force the Application Manager to do it, sourcing the metadata >> from *.maemo.org > > This is a bit harder since we would need to tell apt-get about this > new > metadata, and new infrastructure needs to be invented to maintain the > metadata in the repository itself. Reevaluating my idea, while it's probably a workable idea, the reality it it's really rather pointless. There's not gonna be enough list modification (it's hardly worth having an authoritative list if it changes every month), so implementing a solution to let us modify it easily seems rather pointless. > Also, which of the many repositories should provide the list of > categories? Only maemo Extras? Each repo for its own packages? A > union of all categories from all repositories? If we did decide to go ahead with this method, I'd say keep the list on repository.maemo.org, but not necessarily in any particular repository. -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Application manager category view proposals
On Oct 27, 2008, at 10:47 AM, Marius Vollmer wrote: > "ext Andrew Flegg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 1:47 PM, Marius Vollmer >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >> [snip: packages with sections which aren't "liked"] >>> >>> You don't need to reject the packages: you can also rewrite rogue >>> sections to "Other". >> >> There has, previously, been very strong (and probably justified) >> revulsion at the idea of the autobuilder changing the uploaded >> packages. > > You can put overrides into the archive: only the "Packages" files in > the > repository would be affected, the packages themselves can remain > untouched. The reason I like doing this Application Manager-side is that it forces compliance even for stuff not going through the autobuilder or Extras. This prevents both Nokia and 3rd party repositories from being evil and corrupting the category view. apt pulls in a lot of data from the repositories when it does an update anyway, so why not pull in the authoritative list (including section names, encoded icons, i18n and anything else that's relevant) from repository.maemo.org during these updates? Enforcement is done in the Application Manager but doesn't require the Application Manager to be updated to update the section list. -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Proposal for Diablo's authoritative list of package categories
So after a fair bit of discussion, we've arrive at a suitable list of package categories: KeyEnglish i18n Examples user/desktop Desktop* applets user/development ProgrammingPy2Deb user/education EducationalFlashcard user/games Games Doom, Maemodrac user/graphics Graphics GIMP, Inkscape, fonts user/multimediaMultimedia Canola, mplayer user/navigationNavigation Maemo Mapper user/network Networking Browsers, email, OpenAFS user/officeOffice GPE, AbiWord user/systemSystem rotation-support, kernels user/utilities Utilities Calculators, terminals This is the proposal final list of categories for Diablo. Any problematic packages that don't fit the list should be brought up on the wiki for consideration for list revision for Fremantle.[1] Thoughts? [1]http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Package_categories -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Projects Nokia should support (yours?)
What about something like powerlaunch? Music playback is a pretty common use case, and having to take the tablet out of your pocket to change the volume or the song is a pain. Some hooks into dsme/mce so you can issue commands with the screen turned off would be a nice feature. -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Maemo & Linux mainstream
On Oct 24, 2008, at 5:25 PM, Karl Eichwalder wrote: > The reader application must not blank the screen while reading; I've > the > feeling fbreader lacks the feature maemo-mapper already knows about: > if > in full-screen mode, keep screen contents visible. Hopefully as a toggle-able option, of course. :) I frequently read until I fall asleep, and having the tablet glaring in my eyes while I'm sleeping is less than ideal. moreDimmingOptions[1] might be a good way to side step the issue for you for now. (By the way, does anybody want to help the maintainer get his package into Extras? He was having some trouble last time I asked. . . .) [1]http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/moredimmingoptions/ -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Location services not available?
On Oct 24, 2008, at 4:12 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Quoting Marco Tabini <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> I was trying to access the liblocation functionality > > On a slightly related note (and sorry Marco, the answer is beyond me > at the moment but it does raise a good point) I would like to see > future, as in Maemo 5, applications use geoclue [1] as their main > source of location based awareness. With the push for more > standardized software, geoclue is up there as a 'must-use'. Just, fyi, http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2037 -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
