Re: [MBZ] Volvo SW to the moon and (nearly) back

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

It has invaluable kashay, or je ne sais quoi.

On Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 2:16 PM Bob Rentfro via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Sold for $6K. The world’s gone mad.
>
> AZBob
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Sep 13, 2023, at 10:34 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > At first I thought if I was the owner I would have wanted to get it to
> 500,000 just because it us such a milestone.  But, then I read the
> following “The seller reports piston slap when the engine is cold, and the
> exhaust system does not have a catalytic converter.”
> >
> > Now I really don’t understand the bidding.
> >
> > Donald H. Snook
> >
> >
> >> On Sep 13, 2023, at 11:53 AM, Andrew Strasfogel 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> More miles does not necessarily enhance value.
> >>
> >> https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1992-volvo-740-turbo-7/
> >>
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Volvo SW to the moon and (nearly) back

[Bob Rentfro via Mercedes]

Sold for $6K. The world’s gone mad. 

AZBob

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 13, 2023, at 10:34 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> At first I thought if I was the owner I would have wanted to get it to 
> 500,000 just because it us such a milestone.  But, then I read the following 
> “The seller reports piston slap when the engine is cold, and the exhaust 
> system does not have a catalytic converter.” 
> 
> Now I really don’t understand the bidding. 
> 
> Donald H. Snook
> 
> 
>> On Sep 13, 2023, at 11:53 AM, Andrew Strasfogel  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> More miles does not necessarily enhance value.
>> 
>> https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1992-volvo-740-turbo-7/
>> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo SW to the moon and (nearly) back

[Donald Snook via Mercedes]

At first I thought if I was the owner I would have wanted to get it to 500,000 
just because it us such a milestone.  But, then I read the following “The 
seller reports piston slap when the engine is cold, and the exhaust system does 
not have a catalytic converter.” 

Now I really don’t understand the bidding. 

Donald H. Snook


> On Sep 13, 2023, at 11:53 AM, Andrew Strasfogel  wrote:
> 
> More miles does not necessarily enhance value.
> 
> https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1992-volvo-740-turbo-7/
> 
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[MBZ] Volvo SW to the moon and (nearly) back

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

More miles does not necessarily enhance value.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1992-volvo-740-turbo-7/
___
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Re: [MBZ] Volvo PV544 on BAT

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

That would be a great surprise birthday present to a spouse if one were
looking for a quick divorce.

On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 2:40 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> This is a MUCH cooler Volvo:
>
>
> https://jalopnik.com/some-hero-in-london-street-parks-their-volvo-sugga-1842546618
>
> -D
>
>
>
> > On Mar 30, 2020, at 2:37 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Nw at $8251 as the auction enters the final minutes.
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 12:56 PM Kevin Kraly via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I sure did enjoy the 1958 Volvo PV444 that we had in the 1990’s. It was
> a
> >> mostly original driver quality car, but still a head turner. Someone
> >> re-powered it with a B18 engine which was more powerful than the
> original
> >> B16. During the move from California to Oregon, the moving company
> damaged
> >> it, so we decided to prepare it for a full restoration which was never
> to
> >> be. We ended up giving it away a few years later. Hopefully, it’s still
> >> around or donated parts to another driver.
> >> Kevin in Hillsboro, OR
> >> 2019 Sprinter 650 miles, Low Mileage Lutgard AKA Der DoodleWagen
> >> 1982 240D, High Mileage Hildegard in quarantine
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On Mar 29, 2020, at 8:35 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> No one can accuse you of being overly spendthrift.
> >>>
>  On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 4:54 PM G Mann via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>  wrote:
> 
>  I owned one of those, decades ago... bought it for $8.00. The starter
> >> had
>  burned out and it had been parked for 2 years... I primed the fuel
> >> system
>  with fresh fuel and a little spray death start fluid, and got a rope
> >> pull
>  start from another car.. drove it home.. Fixed the starter, which cost
> >> more
>  than the car, and then tried to flog it to deatth
> 
>  On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 9:29 AM OK Don via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com
> >
>  wrote:
> 
> > A local fellow put Goodyear Blue Streak racing tires on one of those
> >> back
> > in the early '70's, and managed to roll it in a flat parking lot
> >> gymkhana
> > event.
> >
> > On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 11:06 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I drove one of these in Mpls.-St. Paul while in grad school.  To
> >> assure
> > it
> >> would start every morning I would 1) bring the battery inside to my
> >> basement flat, and 2) insert a dipstick heater to keep the oil warm.
> >> Eventually my gloves disintegrated from the cumulative exposure to
> > battery
> >> acid.
> >>
> >> These were great highway cars, averaging 77 mph for long distances
> > between
> >> OH and MN.  I also appreciated the orthopedic driver's seat which
> >> successfully combated fatigue.
> >>
> >> Otherwise, not particularly collectible.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> 
> >>
> https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1960-volvo-pv544-5/?utm_source=dailymail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2020-03-29
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > OK Don
> >
> > "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time
> to
> > pause and reflect." Mark Twain
> >
> > “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
> > Wernher
> > Von Braun
> > 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> > 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> > 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
>  ___
>  http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
>  To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
>  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>  http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change deliv

Re: [MBZ] Volvo PV544 on BAT

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

This is a MUCH cooler Volvo:

https://jalopnik.com/some-hero-in-london-street-parks-their-volvo-sugga-1842546618

-D



> On Mar 30, 2020, at 2:37 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Nw at $8251 as the auction enters the final minutes.
> 
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 12:56 PM Kevin Kraly via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> I sure did enjoy the 1958 Volvo PV444 that we had in the 1990’s. It was a
>> mostly original driver quality car, but still a head turner. Someone
>> re-powered it with a B18 engine which was more powerful than the original
>> B16. During the move from California to Oregon, the moving company damaged
>> it, so we decided to prepare it for a full restoration which was never to
>> be. We ended up giving it away a few years later. Hopefully, it’s still
>> around or donated parts to another driver.
>> Kevin in Hillsboro, OR
>> 2019 Sprinter 650 miles, Low Mileage Lutgard AKA Der DoodleWagen
>> 1982 240D, High Mileage Hildegard in quarantine
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Mar 29, 2020, at 8:35 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> No one can accuse you of being overly spendthrift.
>>> 
 On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 4:54 PM G Mann via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 wrote:
 
 I owned one of those, decades ago... bought it for $8.00. The starter
>> had
 burned out and it had been parked for 2 years... I primed the fuel
>> system
 with fresh fuel and a little spray death start fluid, and got a rope
>> pull
 start from another car.. drove it home.. Fixed the starter, which cost
>> more
 than the car, and then tried to flog it to deatth
 
 On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 9:29 AM OK Don via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com
> 
 wrote:
 
> A local fellow put Goodyear Blue Streak racing tires on one of those
>> back
> in the early '70's, and managed to roll it in a flat parking lot
>> gymkhana
> event.
> 
> On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 11:06 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> I drove one of these in Mpls.-St. Paul while in grad school.  To
>> assure
> it
>> would start every morning I would 1) bring the battery inside to my
>> basement flat, and 2) insert a dipstick heater to keep the oil warm.
>> Eventually my gloves disintegrated from the cumulative exposure to
> battery
>> acid.
>> 
>> These were great highway cars, averaging 77 mph for long distances
> between
>> OH and MN.  I also appreciated the orthopedic driver's seat which
>> successfully combated fatigue.
>> 
>> Otherwise, not particularly collectible.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
 
>> https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1960-volvo-pv544-5/?utm_source=dailymail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2020-03-29
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> 
> --
> OK Don
> 
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
> 
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
> Wernher
> Von Braun
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] Volvo PV544 on BAT

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Nw at $8251 as the auction enters the final minutes.

On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 12:56 PM Kevin Kraly via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I sure did enjoy the 1958 Volvo PV444 that we had in the 1990’s. It was a
> mostly original driver quality car, but still a head turner. Someone
> re-powered it with a B18 engine which was more powerful than the original
> B16. During the move from California to Oregon, the moving company damaged
> it, so we decided to prepare it for a full restoration which was never to
> be. We ended up giving it away a few years later. Hopefully, it’s still
> around or donated parts to another driver.
> Kevin in Hillsboro, OR
> 2019 Sprinter 650 miles, Low Mileage Lutgard AKA Der DoodleWagen
> 1982 240D, High Mileage Hildegard in quarantine
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Mar 29, 2020, at 8:35 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > No one can accuse you of being overly spendthrift.
> >
> >> On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 4:54 PM G Mann via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> I owned one of those, decades ago... bought it for $8.00. The starter
> had
> >> burned out and it had been parked for 2 years... I primed the fuel
> system
> >> with fresh fuel and a little spray death start fluid, and got a rope
> pull
> >> start from another car.. drove it home.. Fixed the starter, which cost
> more
> >> than the car, and then tried to flog it to deatth
> >>
> >> On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 9:29 AM OK Don via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> A local fellow put Goodyear Blue Streak racing tires on one of those
> back
> >>> in the early '70's, and managed to roll it in a flat parking lot
> gymkhana
> >>> event.
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 11:06 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>>
>  I drove one of these in Mpls.-St. Paul while in grad school.  To
> assure
> >>> it
>  would start every morning I would 1) bring the battery inside to my
>  basement flat, and 2) insert a dipstick heater to keep the oil warm.
>  Eventually my gloves disintegrated from the cumulative exposure to
> >>> battery
>  acid.
> 
>  These were great highway cars, averaging 77 mph for long distances
> >>> between
>  OH and MN.  I also appreciated the orthopedic driver's seat which
>  successfully combated fatigue.
> 
>  Otherwise, not particularly collectible.
> 
> 
> 
> >>>
> >>
> https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1960-volvo-pv544-5/?utm_source=dailymail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2020-03-29
>  ___
>  http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
>  To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
>  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>  http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> OK Don
> >>>
> >>> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> >>> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
> >>>
> >>> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
> >>> Wernher
> >>> Von Braun
> >>> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> >>> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> >>> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >>
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Volvo PV544 on BAT

[Kevin Kraly via Mercedes]

I sure did enjoy the 1958 Volvo PV444 that we had in the 1990’s. It was a 
mostly original driver quality car, but still a head turner. Someone re-powered 
it with a B18 engine which was more powerful than the original B16. During the 
move from California to Oregon, the moving company damaged it, so we decided to 
prepare it for a full restoration which was never to be. We ended up giving it 
away a few years later. Hopefully, it’s still around or donated parts to 
another driver.
Kevin in Hillsboro, OR
2019 Sprinter 650 miles, Low Mileage Lutgard AKA Der DoodleWagen
1982 240D, High Mileage Hildegard in quarantine

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 29, 2020, at 8:35 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> No one can accuse you of being overly spendthrift.
> 
>> On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 4:54 PM G Mann via Mercedes 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I owned one of those, decades ago... bought it for $8.00. The starter had
>> burned out and it had been parked for 2 years... I primed the fuel system
>> with fresh fuel and a little spray death start fluid, and got a rope pull
>> start from another car.. drove it home.. Fixed the starter, which cost more
>> than the car, and then tried to flog it to deatth
>> 
>> On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 9:29 AM OK Don via Mercedes >> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> A local fellow put Goodyear Blue Streak racing tires on one of those back
>>> in the early '70's, and managed to roll it in a flat parking lot gymkhana
>>> event.
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 11:06 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
 I drove one of these in Mpls.-St. Paul while in grad school.  To assure
>>> it
 would start every morning I would 1) bring the battery inside to my
 basement flat, and 2) insert a dipstick heater to keep the oil warm.
 Eventually my gloves disintegrated from the cumulative exposure to
>>> battery
 acid.
 
 These were great highway cars, averaging 77 mph for long distances
>>> between
 OH and MN.  I also appreciated the orthopedic driver's seat which
 successfully combated fatigue.
 
 Otherwise, not particularly collectible.
 
 
 
>>> 
>> https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1960-volvo-pv544-5/?utm_source=dailymail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2020-03-29
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> OK Don
>>> 
>>> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
>>> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>>> 
>>> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
>>> Wernher
>>> Von Braun
>>> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
>>> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
>>> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo PV544 on BAT

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

No one can accuse you of being overly spendthrift.

On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 4:54 PM G Mann via Mercedes 
wrote:

> I owned one of those, decades ago... bought it for $8.00. The starter had
> burned out and it had been parked for 2 years... I primed the fuel system
> with fresh fuel and a little spray death start fluid, and got a rope pull
> start from another car.. drove it home.. Fixed the starter, which cost more
> than the car, and then tried to flog it to deatth
>
> On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 9:29 AM OK Don via Mercedes  >
> wrote:
>
> > A local fellow put Goodyear Blue Streak racing tires on one of those back
> > in the early '70's, and managed to roll it in a flat parking lot gymkhana
> > event.
> >
> > On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 11:06 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I drove one of these in Mpls.-St. Paul while in grad school.  To assure
> > it
> > > would start every morning I would 1) bring the battery inside to my
> > > basement flat, and 2) insert a dipstick heater to keep the oil warm.
> > > Eventually my gloves disintegrated from the cumulative exposure to
> > battery
> > > acid.
> > >
> > > These were great highway cars, averaging 77 mph for long distances
> > between
> > > OH and MN.  I also appreciated the orthopedic driver's seat which
> > > successfully combated fatigue.
> > >
> > > Otherwise, not particularly collectible.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1960-volvo-pv544-5/?utm_source=dailymail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2020-03-29
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > OK Don
> >
> > "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> > pause and reflect." Mark Twain
> >
> > “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
> > Wernher
> > Von Braun
> > 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> > 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> > 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
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> >
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Re: [MBZ] Volvo PV544 on BAT

[G Mann via Mercedes]

I owned one of those, decades ago... bought it for $8.00. The starter had
burned out and it had been parked for 2 years... I primed the fuel system
with fresh fuel and a little spray death start fluid, and got a rope pull
start from another car.. drove it home.. Fixed the starter, which cost more
than the car, and then tried to flog it to deatth

On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 9:29 AM OK Don via Mercedes 
wrote:

> A local fellow put Goodyear Blue Streak racing tires on one of those back
> in the early '70's, and managed to roll it in a flat parking lot gymkhana
> event.
>
> On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 11:06 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > I drove one of these in Mpls.-St. Paul while in grad school.  To assure
> it
> > would start every morning I would 1) bring the battery inside to my
> > basement flat, and 2) insert a dipstick heater to keep the oil warm.
> > Eventually my gloves disintegrated from the cumulative exposure to
> battery
> > acid.
> >
> > These were great highway cars, averaging 77 mph for long distances
> between
> > OH and MN.  I also appreciated the orthopedic driver's seat which
> > successfully combated fatigue.
> >
> > Otherwise, not particularly collectible.
> >
> >
> >
> https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1960-volvo-pv544-5/?utm_source=dailymail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2020-03-29
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
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> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
>
> --
> OK Don
>
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
> Wernher
> Von Braun
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Volvo PV544 on BAT

[OK Don via Mercedes]

A local fellow put Goodyear Blue Streak racing tires on one of those back
in the early '70's, and managed to roll it in a flat parking lot gymkhana
event.

On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 11:06 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I drove one of these in Mpls.-St. Paul while in grad school.  To assure it
> would start every morning I would 1) bring the battery inside to my
> basement flat, and 2) insert a dipstick heater to keep the oil warm.
> Eventually my gloves disintegrated from the cumulative exposure to battery
> acid.
>
> These were great highway cars, averaging 77 mph for long distances between
> OH and MN.  I also appreciated the orthopedic driver's seat which
> successfully combated fatigue.
>
> Otherwise, not particularly collectible.
>
>
> https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1960-volvo-pv544-5/?utm_source=dailymail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2020-03-29
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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[MBZ] Volvo PV544 on BAT

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I drove one of these in Mpls.-St. Paul while in grad school.  To assure it
would start every morning I would 1) bring the battery inside to my
basement flat, and 2) insert a dipstick heater to keep the oil warm.
Eventually my gloves disintegrated from the cumulative exposure to battery
acid.

These were great highway cars, averaging 77 mph for long distances between
OH and MN.  I also appreciated the orthopedic driver's seat which
successfully combated fatigue.

Otherwise, not particularly collectible.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1960-volvo-pv544-5/?utm_source=dailymail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2020-03-29
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Re: [MBZ] Volvo phasing out gas and diesel cars soon

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

Volvo are building a big new facility up the road to make SUVs and other 
vehicles.  I guess they will start cranking out electrified Volvos


--FT


On 7/6/17 3:28 PM, fmiser via Mercedes wrote:

Volvo Car Corp. has vowed to abandon the traditional gas-powered
internal combustion engine...
  

... it will only offer new hybrid or battery electric vehicles
starting in 2019.

Err, hybrids use internal combustion engines.


... completely phase out the gas-powered engine that has
dominated vehicles since Ford's Model T in 1908

I think it was the electric starter in the 1912 Cadillac that
allowed the gasoline engine to complete its dominance.  There were
a lot of Model Ts sold, though.

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--
--FT
Winston Churchill:
“Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or 
petty,
never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the 
enemy.”


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Re: [MBZ] Volvo phasing out gas and diesel cars soon

[fmiser via Mercedes]

> Volvo Car Corp. has vowed to abandon the traditional gas-powered
> internal combustion engine...
 
> ... it will only offer new hybrid or battery electric vehicles
> starting in 2019.

Err, hybrids use internal combustion engines.

> ... completely phase out the gas-powered engine that has
> dominated vehicles since Ford's Model T in 1908

I think it was the electric starter in the 1912 Cadillac that
allowed the gasoline engine to complete its dominance.  There were
a lot of Model Ts sold, though.

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo phasing out gas and diesel cars soon

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Super clickbait...
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via 
Mercedes wrote:   ELECTRIC VEHICLESVolvo bidding end to 
gas-powered engines

Published: Wednesday, July 5, 2017
[image: Volvo automobile on assembly line. Photo: Volvo.]

Volvo has vowed to phase out the internal combustion engine by 2019. Volvo

Volvo Car Corp. has vowed to abandon the traditional gas-powered internal
combustion engine within two years.

The Sweden-based, Chinese-owned automaker announced today that it will only
offer new hybrid or battery electric vehicles starting in 2019.

It becomes the first mainstream manufacturer to promise to completely phase
out the gas-powered engine that has dominated vehicles since Ford's Model T
in 1908 in favor of a technology that still represents a tiny share of the
global market.

Volvo announced it will launch five fully electric cars between 2019 and
2021. Plug-in hybrid cars that partly use petrol or diesel and electrified
"mild hybrid" 48-volt cars will complete the lineup.

Battery electric vehicles just cracked 1 percent of new car sales in the
U.S. last year. Hybrids accounted for 2 percent.

Automakers, electric utilities and petroleum companies are all betting the
share of electric vehicles will increase, though analysts disagree on how
fast that will happen. They expect the vehicles will get more popular as
battery prices fall, range gets longer and charging infrastructure builds
out. Automakers are also planning to pair increasing automation with
electrification.

Automakers also face increasingly tight sales and carbon reduction targets
in China, the European Union and the United States.

"This announcement marks the end of the solely combustion-engine-powered
car," said Håkan Samuelsson, Volvo's president and CEO. "People
increasingly demand electrified cars, and we want to respond to our
customers' current and future needs."

He reiterated the company's goal to sell a total of 1 million electrified
cars by 2025.

Volvo sold around half a million cars last year, more than Tesla's 76,000
but much less than the world's largest car companies like Toyota Motor
Corp., Volkswagen AG and General Motors Co., which each had around 10
million sales.

The mainstream, traditional manufacturers are also looking to electrify:
Volkswagen, seeking to put its diesel scandal behind it, has vowed to sell
a million electric vehicles by 2025. Ford, seen by critics as a laggard,
has promised to introduce more than a dozen electric models, including
SUVs. GM's Chevrolet Bolt was the first affordable all-electric vehicle
introduced to the market with a range of more than 200 miles. The first of
Tesla's Model 3s are expected to roll off the production line later this
week.
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[MBZ] Volvo phasing out gas and diesel cars soon

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

ELECTRIC VEHICLESVolvo bidding end to gas-powered engines

Published: Wednesday, July 5, 2017
[image: Volvo automobile on assembly line. Photo: Volvo.]

Volvo has vowed to phase out the internal combustion engine by 2019. Volvo

Volvo Car Corp. has vowed to abandon the traditional gas-powered internal
combustion engine within two years.

The Sweden-based, Chinese-owned automaker announced today that it will only
offer new hybrid or battery electric vehicles starting in 2019.

It becomes the first mainstream manufacturer to promise to completely phase
out the gas-powered engine that has dominated vehicles since Ford's Model T
in 1908 in favor of a technology that still represents a tiny share of the
global market.

Volvo announced it will launch five fully electric cars between 2019 and
2021. Plug-in hybrid cars that partly use petrol or diesel and electrified
"mild hybrid" 48-volt cars will complete the lineup.

Battery electric vehicles just cracked 1 percent of new car sales in the
U.S. last year. Hybrids accounted for 2 percent.

Automakers, electric utilities and petroleum companies are all betting the
share of electric vehicles will increase, though analysts disagree on how
fast that will happen. They expect the vehicles will get more popular as
battery prices fall, range gets longer and charging infrastructure builds
out. Automakers are also planning to pair increasing automation with
electrification.

Automakers also face increasingly tight sales and carbon reduction targets
in China, the European Union and the United States.

"This announcement marks the end of the solely combustion-engine-powered
car," said Håkan Samuelsson, Volvo's president and CEO. "People
increasingly demand electrified cars, and we want to respond to our
customers' current and future needs."

He reiterated the company's goal to sell a total of 1 million electrified
cars by 2025.

Volvo sold around half a million cars last year, more than Tesla's 76,000
but much less than the world's largest car companies like Toyota Motor
Corp., Volkswagen AG and General Motors Co., which each had around 10
million sales.

The mainstream, traditional manufacturers are also looking to electrify:
Volkswagen, seeking to put its diesel scandal behind it, has vowed to sell
a million electric vehicles by 2025. Ford, seen by critics as a laggard,
has promised to introduce more than a dozen electric models, including
SUVs. GM's Chevrolet Bolt was the first affordable all-electric vehicle
introduced to the market with a range of more than 200 miles. The first of
Tesla's Model 3s are expected to roll off the production line later this
week.
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Re: [MBZ] volvo 850 wagon

[Mitch Haley]

Rick Hawkins Java wrote:

i would think there should be some market for it  a car with no 
reverse is better than no car at all


But what year was it, a 1994?
the market is almost surely three digits.
A while back, Brianna and I bought (with my money) a $600 Taurus that goes from 
2nd to neutral when you slow down, unless you move the lever from D to 3 while 
you're still going more than 15mph. If you get that wrong, you have to put it in 
R, wait for reverse to engage, and then select a forward gear again to go again.


Nice running, nice looking car, good AC.
All gears work, just not the hydraulics. Ford valve bodies with pump and 
solenoids included are readily available for $50-100.
That's a $600 car here in Michigan. Offer me $700 and I'll throw in an oil 
change, a used valve body, and a new mcpherson strut. (some assemply required)


Bought it at the end of April, and haven't received a single payment on it yet, 
so I'll be swapping valve bodies, replacing a strut, and trying to sell it for 
$1000-1200. Bri can buy her own car when she's matured enough to save up the 
money for it.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] volvo 805 turbo wagon

[Curt Raymond]

Quite drivable though. My aunt has a similar car in sedan form, its very 
pleasant to drive.

-Curt

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 12:12:55 -0400
From: Andrew Strasfogel 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] volvo 805 turbo wagon
Message-ID:
    
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

What an utterly unlovable vehicle.  No curb appeal whatsoever!
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Re: [MBZ] volvo 805 turbo wagon

[Curt Raymond]

Part of your ad needs updating, "this WAS a nice fancy car" now its a hoopty.

Look at it this way, if you get $500 you've made 5x your money.

For $1100 looking as it does I'd want reverse. A tranny service with a new 
filter might do it...

-Curt

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 09:32:27 -0400
From: Rich Thomas 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] volvo 805 turbo wagon
Message-ID: <539708eb.5080...@constructivity.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Put down that crack pipe and step away from the computer

--R


On 6/10/14 2:11 AM, Rick Hawkins Java wrote:
> This is a little off topic. There was a 1994 white volvo 850 turbo 
> parked by the entrance to our daughter's apartment. It looked a bit 
> abandoned and irritated her because she had to make her turn wide. I 
> told her to find the owner, she did and he agreed to sell it to me for 
> $100 (and had the title and key)! Supposedly it last ran in December 
> and doesn't go in reverse.
>
> I bought it yesterday for one C note. I pulled the battery and charged 
> it overnite. MERCEDES CONTENT: Today my helper and i drove over there 
> and with a little starting fluid and the hot battery, it started with 
> a bit of effort. The engine was a couple of quarts low on oil car 
> was for sure under maintained.  It runs very smoothly. A/C compressor 
> turns on but shuts right off ... low freon? I don't care. I drove it 
> to my shop and it was nice, smooth and powerful. I think it has 150k 
> miles but the odometer may not work  the trip one didn't  but 
> i think it does have speedo.
>
> Sure enough, it will only slightly TRY to move in reverse. Trans fluid 
> is brownish, but it seems full ... it may have a bit of smell, but not 
> burnt smell.
>
> You can see it here on CL
>
> http://athensga.craigslist.org/cto/4510944216.html
>
> what's it worth? I put $1100, hoping to get maybe $800?
>
> WE GAVE IT A HALF ASS wash. The driver's windshield wiper didn't move, 
> so i tightened that up and the wipers work.
>
> It has a sun/moon glass electric roof that works very smoothly.
>
> it's transverse turbo engine and FWD
>
> It seems nice, but i don't want it.
>
> I can drive it to the junkyard and probably collect 12 cents a pound 
> .
>
> xx rick hawkins
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[MBZ] volvo 850 wagon

[Rick Hawkins Java]

I don't think the car has that much charm, but it IS smooth and seems  
fairly powerful to me used to 123 diesels.


It does not look particularly easy to repair

i would think there should be some market for it  a car with no  
reverse is better than no car at all


xx r
On Jun 10, 2014, at 4:49 PM, mercedes-requ...@okiebenz.com wrote:



What an utterly unlovable vehicle.  No curb appeal whatsoever!


On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 9:32 AM, Rich Thomas <
richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> wrote:


Put down that crack pipe and step away from the computer

--R


On 6/10/14 2:11 AM, Rick Hawkins Java wrote:

This is a little off topic. There was a 1994 white volvo 850 turbo  
parked


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Re: [MBZ] volvo 805 turbo wagon

[Andrew Strasfogel]

What an utterly unlovable vehicle.  No curb appeal whatsoever!


On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 9:32 AM, Rich Thomas <
richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> wrote:

> Put down that crack pipe and step away from the computer
>
> --R
>
>
> On 6/10/14 2:11 AM, Rick Hawkins Java wrote:
>
>> This is a little off topic. There was a 1994 white volvo 850 turbo parked
>> by the entrance to our daughter's apartment. It looked a bit abandoned and
>> irritated her because she had to make her turn wide. I told her to find the
>> owner, she did and he agreed to sell it to me for $100 (and had the title
>> and key)! Supposedly it last ran in December and doesn't go in reverse.
>>
>> I bought it yesterday for one C note. I pulled the battery and charged it
>> overnite. MERCEDES CONTENT: Today my helper and i drove over there and with
>> a little starting fluid and the hot battery, it started with a bit of
>> effort. The engine was a couple of quarts low on oil car was for sure
>> under maintained.  It runs very smoothly. A/C compressor turns on but shuts
>> right off ... low freon? I don't care. I drove it to my shop and it was
>> nice, smooth and powerful. I think it has 150k miles but the odometer may
>> not work  the trip one didn't  but i think it does have speedo.
>>
>> Sure enough, it will only slightly TRY to move in reverse. Trans fluid is
>> brownish, but it seems full ... it may have a bit of smell, but not burnt
>> smell.
>>
>> You can see it here on CL
>>
>> http://athensga.craigslist.org/cto/4510944216.html
>>
>> what's it worth? I put $1100, hoping to get maybe $800?
>>
>> WE GAVE IT A HALF ASS wash. The driver's windshield wiper didn't move, so
>> i tightened that up and the wipers work.
>>
>> It has a sun/moon glass electric roof that works very smoothly.
>>
>> it's transverse turbo engine and FWD
>>
>> It seems nice, but i don't want it.
>>
>> I can drive it to the junkyard and probably collect 12 cents a pound .
>>
>> xx rick hawkins
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>> All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those
>> individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has
>> no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
>>
>>
>
> ___
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>
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>
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>
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> individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner
> has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
>
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Re: [MBZ] volvo 805 turbo wagon

[Rich Thomas]

Put down that crack pipe and step away from the computer

--R


On 6/10/14 2:11 AM, Rick Hawkins Java wrote:
This is a little off topic. There was a 1994 white volvo 850 turbo 
parked by the entrance to our daughter's apartment. It looked a bit 
abandoned and irritated her because she had to make her turn wide. I 
told her to find the owner, she did and he agreed to sell it to me for 
$100 (and had the title and key)! Supposedly it last ran in December 
and doesn't go in reverse.


I bought it yesterday for one C note. I pulled the battery and charged 
it overnite. MERCEDES CONTENT: Today my helper and i drove over there 
and with a little starting fluid and the hot battery, it started with 
a bit of effort. The engine was a couple of quarts low on oil car 
was for sure under maintained.  It runs very smoothly. A/C compressor 
turns on but shuts right off ... low freon? I don't care. I drove it 
to my shop and it was nice, smooth and powerful. I think it has 150k 
miles but the odometer may not work  the trip one didn't  but 
i think it does have speedo.


Sure enough, it will only slightly TRY to move in reverse. Trans fluid 
is brownish, but it seems full ... it may have a bit of smell, but not 
burnt smell.


You can see it here on CL

http://athensga.craigslist.org/cto/4510944216.html

what's it worth? I put $1100, hoping to get maybe $800?

WE GAVE IT A HALF ASS wash. The driver's windshield wiper didn't move, 
so i tightened that up and the wipers work.


It has a sun/moon glass electric roof that works very smoothly.

it's transverse turbo engine and FWD

It seems nice, but i don't want it.

I can drive it to the junkyard and probably collect 12 cents a pound 
.


xx rick hawkins

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contributor.





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[MBZ] volvo 805 turbo wagon

[Rick Hawkins Java]

This is a little off topic. There was a 1994 white volvo 850 turbo  
parked by the entrance to our daughter's apartment. It looked a bit  
abandoned and irritated her because she had to make her turn wide. I  
told her to find the owner, she did and he agreed to sell it to me for  
$100 (and had the title and key)! Supposedly it last ran in December  
and doesn't go in reverse.


I bought it yesterday for one C note. I pulled the battery and charged  
it overnite. MERCEDES CONTENT: Today my helper and i drove over there  
and with a little starting fluid and the hot battery, it started with  
a bit of effort. The engine was a couple of quarts low on oil car  
was for sure under maintained.  It runs very smoothly. A/C compressor  
turns on but shuts right off ... low freon? I don't care. I drove it  
to my shop and it was nice, smooth and powerful. I think it has 150k  
miles but the odometer may not work  the trip one didn't  but  
i think it does have speedo.


Sure enough, it will only slightly TRY to move in reverse. Trans fluid  
is brownish, but it seems full ... it may have a bit of smell, but not  
burnt smell.


You can see it here on CL

http://athensga.craigslist.org/cto/4510944216.html

what's it worth? I put $1100, hoping to get maybe $800?

WE GAVE IT A HALF ASS wash. The driver's windshield wiper didn't move,  
so i tightened that up and the wipers work.


It has a sun/moon glass electric roof that works very smoothly.

it's transverse turbo engine and FWD

It seems nice, but i don't want it.

I can drive it to the junkyard and probably collect 12 cents a  
pound .


xx rick hawkins

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo diesel?

[Craig]

On Tue, 25 Dec 2012 12:56:35 -0800 (PST) Curt Raymond
 wrote:

> That said based on today's results (see my last message) it looks as
> though this car might get a new lease on life. I'm going to change the
> oil and drive it for a few days to see what happens, if the oil and
> water stay on their respective sides like they're supposed to and I can
> get the valve tick to go away we might be okay...

Sounds like things are going well. I wish you further success! You have
half an ATTABOY at this point. :-)


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo diesel?

[Curt Raymond]

Wikipedia confirms that the D24 that the car I found produces pretty much the 
same 54kW as an OM616, too bad its not a turbo version. The wagon must be 
fairly weighty too. 5spd would be nice though.

I may have to go see the car anyway, I've never seen one for same (not that 
I've really looked) so it'd be worth checking out.

-Curt

Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 11:34:50 -0600
From: Peter Frederick 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volvo diesel?
Message-ID: <53199de7-532c-4577-af87-34f32a754...@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

A 740TD turbo is a nice car -- 31 mpg on the highway 29 in town,  
wonderful to drive, dead reliable (although mine has been out of the  
count for a while, fuel problems).

Weak points are the injection pump (Bosch distributor single piston  
type) that does NOT like ultra-low sulfur fuel (use additive every  
tank), head prone to cracks between the valves so bad the valve guide  
come loose (just like the VW diesel, same engine but two cylinder).   
Head can be welded, though, unlike a Benz.

Body is bulletproof, but not super safe on off-center collisions  
(nothing that age is).  Rack will eventually start leaking, but they  
aren't expensive to rebuild.

Turbo is noisy, sounds like a distant police siren in stop and to  
traffic, but not audible on the highway.  If you can't hear it, it's  
bad.

Best highway car I've ever had, including a W124.  Seats are a bit  
wider and softer than a Benz, so you don't get "stuck" with extended  
sitting, but you still need to remove your wallet to keep from getting  
a dent in your backside.

I need to revive mine so I can get the 300D back into shape.

The later models (940) didn't get the diesel in the US, so you have  
the choice of a 740 D or TD.  The D is going to be slow, it's a 2.4L  
just like a 240, and as heavy.  If you can find a TD with a 5 speed  
(and they sold some) they are road rockets, really.  0-60 in 8 sec or  
so.

They do smoke more than a Benz -- and if the EGR valve sticks open, as  
they tend to do, they REALLY smoke, just like a bad Mack truck.

  The cold start device causes problems too -- increases the fuel and  
moves the timing up, and this can beat the top of the cylinder walls  
out.  No heavy throttle until fully warmed up, they last forever.   
Heavy foot cold, rebuilt every 150,000 miles.

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo diesel?

[Brian Toscano]

whatever gets you to work and back...

On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 1:56 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:

> Massively overheated because the bottom radiator hose came off in the left
> lane of 495 at 75mph I figured the engine might be damaged beyond what the
> car is worth.
> During my ownership this car has slid from "nice low end car" to "jalopy".
> I didn't do a good job keeping it waxed and rust has erupted through the
> paint. Its maybe a 5 out of 10 merely because its still pretty good
> mechanically but its suffering in all the ways you'd expect a 34 year old
> daily driver to be suffering. Needs some front end work, rust remediation,
> interior work and in the end its a pretty base model 240D that I paid $1500
> for 3 years ago. I figure if you can get a year for every $500 of car
> you're doing pretty good.
>
> That said based on today's results (see my last message) it looks as
> though this car might get a new lease on life. I'm going to change the oil
> and drive it for a few days to see what happens, if the oil and water stay
> on their respective sides like they're supposed to and I can get the valve
> tick to go away we might be okay...
>
> -Curt
>
> Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 10:10:08 -0700
> From: Craig 
> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volvo diesel?
> Message-ID: <20121224101008.e59b0f49955b934564ea7...@pisquared.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 08:37:33 -0800 (PST) Curt Raymond
>  wrote:
>
> > With my 240D down for the count one of my options is to buy a new car.
>
> So, what's wrong with your 240D that cannot be fixed?
>
> If you put the amount of money into it that it will take to buy a new
> car, will it be all sorted out?
>
> Or are you just tired of it?
>
>
> Craig
>
> ___
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> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
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Re: [MBZ] Volvo diesel?

[Curt Raymond]

Massively overheated because the bottom radiator hose came off in the left lane 
of 495 at 75mph I figured the engine might be damaged beyond what the car is 
worth.
During my ownership this car has slid from "nice low end car" to "jalopy". I 
didn't do a good job keeping it waxed and rust has erupted through the paint. 
Its maybe a 5 out of 10 merely because its still pretty good mechanically but 
its suffering in all the ways you'd expect a 34 year old daily driver to be 
suffering. Needs some front end work, rust remediation, interior work and in 
the end its a pretty base model 240D that I paid $1500 for 3 years ago. I 
figure if you can get a year for every $500 of car you're doing pretty good.

That said based on today's results (see my last message) it looks as though 
this car might get a new lease on life. I'm going to change the oil and drive 
it for a few days to see what happens, if the oil and water stay on their 
respective sides like they're supposed to and I can get the valve tick to go 
away we might be okay...

-Curt

Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 10:10:08 -0700
From: Craig 
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volvo diesel?
Message-ID: <20121224101008.e59b0f49955b934564ea7...@pisquared.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 08:37:33 -0800 (PST) Curt Raymond
 wrote:

> With my 240D down for the count one of my options is to buy a new car.

So, what's wrong with your 240D that cannot be fixed?

If you put the amount of money into it that it will take to buy a new
car, will it be all sorted out?

Or are you just tired of it?


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo diesel?

[Michael Canfield]

VW Diesels actually.  I think after owning a Mercedes Diesel to will be
disappointed in the Volvo.   I like the Volvo 240 gassers a lot but not the
Diesels.   740 is a lot nicer.

Mike
On Dec 24, 2012 6:01 PM, "Gerry Archer"  wrote:

>
> - Original Message - From: "Tim C" 
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
> Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 12:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volvo diesel?
>
>
>  On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 11:37 AM, Curt Raymond 
>> wrote:
>>
>>  I know somebody on here has some experience with Volvo diesels...
>>>
>>>
>> Not diesel, but I enjoyed my '92 940 - it was comfortable and easy to
>> repair.  Interior/exterior was pretty good, and mine had been rolled by
>> the
>> PO!  With the 4-cylinder gas engine it had the performance of my '77 300D.
>> Well, almost.
>>
>> Actually the 940 was great preparation for driving older MBs, as it had a
>> tendency to lose power at random for a few months before the computer
>> stopped working.  I got used to driving with lots of room for turns.
>> Probably should set one up for the kids in a few years. :)
>>
>> The diesels had a relatively good reputation among Volvo drivers, but I
>> seem to recall reading here that they were similar to the BMW diesels of
>> the time.  No promise that recollection is correct.  This was back in the
>> days of usenet, if you can find an archive for alt.autos.volvo there is a
>> lot of good information.
>>
>> Best,
>> -Tim
>>
>
> I seem to recall reading that Volvo used Audi diesel engines and that the
> engines tended to be troublesome.
> Gerry
>
> __**_
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Re: [MBZ] Volvo diesel?

[Gerry Archer]

- Original Message - 
From: "Tim C" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volvo diesel?


On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 11:37 AM, Curt Raymond  
wrote:



I know somebody on here has some experience with Volvo diesels...



Not diesel, but I enjoyed my '92 940 - it was comfortable and easy to
repair.  Interior/exterior was pretty good, and mine had been rolled by 
the

PO!  With the 4-cylinder gas engine it had the performance of my '77 300D.
Well, almost.

Actually the 940 was great preparation for driving older MBs, as it had a
tendency to lose power at random for a few months before the computer
stopped working.  I got used to driving with lots of room for turns.
Probably should set one up for the kids in a few years. :)

The diesels had a relatively good reputation among Volvo drivers, but I
seem to recall reading here that they were similar to the BMW diesels of
the time.  No promise that recollection is correct.  This was back in the
days of usenet, if you can find an archive for alt.autos.volvo there is a
lot of good information.

Best,
-Tim


I seem to recall reading that Volvo used Audi diesel engines and that the 
engines tended to be troublesome.
Gerry 



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Re: [MBZ] Volvo diesel?

[Dieselhead]

Its a vw, so beware the timing belt.  If it was changed on time, it 
is about due for another.  Can the PO show you a receipt for the last 
timing belt?  Otherwise, change it soon.  Failure means trashed 
valves and possibly head.


Also has the vw single plunger IP, nowhere near as reliable as the 
inline IPNot even close...


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Re: [MBZ] Volvo diesel?

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

You would have never been treated badly by jabba?

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 24, 2012, at 10:53 AM, Dan Penoff  wrote:

> I don't have any direct experience, but I did a lot of research on them 
> before I bought my first MB, a 1979 300TD
> 
> Swedish Bricks http://www.swedishbricks.net/ is a really good forum for Volvo 
> owners if you're looking to get the skinny on these cars.  The only 
> significant issues I recall were electrical in nature, that is, some model 
> years had wiring harness issues (sound familiar?)
> 
> I question how much get up and go the normally aspirated ones would have, as 
> my 79 300TD had a hard time getting out of its own way at times, but the 
> Volvos were six cylinders, so you've got that one extra jug working for you.  
> Compared to a 240D it would probably be a rocket ship.
> 
> The Boston area seemed to be covered with these things in the late 80s/early 
> 90s when I was out there a lot, so I would think there is a still a 
> significant population of them.
> 
> I always liked these cars and often wonder where I would be today if I had 
> gone with a Volvo instead of an MB when I bought my first diesel wagon in 
> 1988.  If it hadn't been for a friend with a 600k 220D that convinced me that 
> an MB was the way to go I would probably have gone with the Volvo.
> 
> Dan
> 
> On Dec 24, 2012, at 11:37 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:
> 
>> I know somebody on here has some experience with Volvo diesels...
>> 
>> 
>> With my 240D down for the count one of my options is to buy a new car. I 
>> seem to do reasonably well with $1500 cars if I plan to keep them in the 
>> 30-40,000 mile range.
>> I found: http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/cto/3486147844.html
>> which looks reasonably good to me.
>> Keep in mind I've been driving a '78 240D, how would this be on power? Fuel 
>> economy?
>> 
>> -Curt
>> 
>> ___
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>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Volvo diesel?

[Peter Frederick]

A 740TD turbo is a nice car -- 31 mpg on the highway 29 in town,  
wonderful to drive, dead reliable (although mine has been out of the  
count for a while, fuel problems).


Weak points are the injection pump (Bosch distributor single piston  
type) that does NOT like ultra-low sulfur fuel (use additive every  
tank), head prone to cracks between the valves so bad the valve guide  
come loose (just like the VW diesel, same engine but two cylinder).   
Head can be welded, though, unlike a Benz.


Body is bulletproof, but not super safe on off-center collisions  
(nothing that age is).  Rack will eventually start leaking, but they  
aren't expensive to rebuild.


Turbo is noisy, sounds like a distant police siren in stop and to  
traffic, but not audible on the highway.  If you can't hear it, it's  
bad.


Best highway car I've ever had, including a W124.  Seats are a bit  
wider and softer than a Benz, so you don't get "stuck" with extended  
sitting, but you still need to remove your wallet to keep from getting  
a dent in your backside.


I need to revive mine so I can get the 300D back into shape.

The later models (940) didn't get the diesel in the US, so you have  
the choice of a 740 D or TD.  The D is going to be slow, it's a 2.4L  
just like a 240, and as heavy.  If you can find a TD with a 5 speed  
(and they sold some) they are road rockets, really.  0-60 in 8 sec or  
so.


They do smoke more than a Benz -- and if the EGR valve sticks open, as  
they tend to do, they REALLY smoke, just like a bad Mack truck.


 The cold start device causes problems too -- increases the fuel and  
moves the timing up, and this can beat the top of the cylinder walls  
out.  No heavy throttle until fully warmed up, they last forever.   
Heavy foot cold, rebuilt every 150,000 miles.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo diesel?

[Craig]

On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 08:37:33 -0800 (PST) Curt Raymond
 wrote:

> With my 240D down for the count one of my options is to buy a new car.

So, what's wrong with your 240D that cannot be fixed?

If you put the amount of money into it that it will take to buy a new
car, will it be all sorted out?

Or are you just tired of it?


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo diesel?

[Tim C]

On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 11:37 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:

> I know somebody on here has some experience with Volvo diesels...
>

Not diesel, but I enjoyed my '92 940 - it was comfortable and easy to
repair.  Interior/exterior was pretty good, and mine had been rolled by the
PO!  With the 4-cylinder gas engine it had the performance of my '77 300D.
 Well, almost.

Actually the 940 was great preparation for driving older MBs, as it had a
tendency to lose power at random for a few months before the computer
stopped working.  I got used to driving with lots of room for turns.
 Probably should set one up for the kids in a few years. :)

The diesels had a relatively good reputation among Volvo drivers, but I
seem to recall reading here that they were similar to the BMW diesels of
the time.  No promise that recollection is correct.  This was back in the
days of usenet, if you can find an archive for alt.autos.volvo there is a
lot of good information.

Best,
-Tim
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Re: [MBZ] Volvo diesel?

[Dan Penoff]

I don't have any direct experience, but I did a lot of research on them before 
I bought my first MB, a 1979 300TD

Swedish Bricks http://www.swedishbricks.net/ is a really good forum for Volvo 
owners if you're looking to get the skinny on these cars.  The only significant 
issues I recall were electrical in nature, that is, some model years had wiring 
harness issues (sound familiar?)

I question how much get up and go the normally aspirated ones would have, as my 
79 300TD had a hard time getting out of its own way at times, but the Volvos 
were six cylinders, so you've got that one extra jug working for you.  Compared 
to a 240D it would probably be a rocket ship.

The Boston area seemed to be covered with these things in the late 80s/early 
90s when I was out there a lot, so I would think there is a still a significant 
population of them.

I always liked these cars and often wonder where I would be today if I had gone 
with a Volvo instead of an MB when I bought my first diesel wagon in 1988.  If 
it hadn't been for a friend with a 600k 220D that convinced me that an MB was 
the way to go I would probably have gone with the Volvo.

Dan

On Dec 24, 2012, at 11:37 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:

> I know somebody on here has some experience with Volvo diesels...
> 
> 
> With my 240D down for the count one of my options is to buy a new car. I seem 
> to do reasonably well with $1500 cars if I plan to keep them in the 30-40,000 
> mile range.
> I found: http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/cto/3486147844.html
> which looks reasonably good to me.
> Keep in mind I've been driving a '78 240D, how would this be on power? Fuel 
> economy?
> 
> -Curt
> 
> ___
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


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[MBZ] Volvo diesel?

[Curt Raymond]

I know somebody on here has some experience with Volvo diesels...


With my 240D down for the count one of my options is to buy a new car. I seem 
to do reasonably well with $1500 cars if I plan to keep them in the 30-40,000 
mile range.
I found: http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/cto/3486147844.html
which looks reasonably good to me.
Keep in mind I've been driving a '78 240D, how would this be on power? Fuel 
economy?

-Curt

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors

[Curt Raymond]

Good points all.
I like Mike's idea of chain drive, seems reasonable.

Great uncle Reg swore it was in the neighborhood of 40mph but I don't think the 
road was paved in those days so I'm already discounting significantly. The 
Super M has a top speed of 16mph in 5th and its a helluva ride even at that 
speed. The Regular with narrow tires and simpler steering (think 2 big gears) 
and hand brakes would have been a real handful even at 20mph. Could be we're 
talking about 10mph which would still be twice stock.

I should have asked how long it took to get to town. Its about 5 miles, that 
would have given me a better benchmark. Sadly anybody who really remembered the 
thing is deceased. My grandmother is still going (91 last month) but doesn't 
really remember the contraption.

-Curt

Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 19:15:47 -0600
From: Fmiser 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors
Message-ID: <20121120191547.54594f5a.fmi...@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

> Curt Raymond wrote:

> Hmm, I'd doubt 37" tires. Maybe it was the rear axle of the
> wagon and there was a transmission involved... Actually now
> that I think of it Dad might have mentioned something about
> that. He claims to have seen the rig years later before it was
> sent off for scrap but never saw it in action.

It's pretty rare for a transmission to be overdrive, especially
at that time period - so typically it would only decrease the
road speed.

Or maybe the PTO could turn faster than 540 RPM.

Or maybe the differential had a ratio of 2.4:1

Or maybe it just _felt_ like 20 MPH!

--Philip

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors

[Dieselhead]

 > Craig wrote:


 On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 13:03:17 -0600 Fmiser 
 wrote:

 > PTO RPM is typically 540, as I recall, so 900 RPM is a bit
 > fast.

 There are two standard PTO speeds now, 540 RPM and 1000 RPM.


Yeah, I heard that.  But this was prior to 1933.  So what was
PTO speed then?

--   Philip


540  It predates the F20 and farmall regular.


From wikipedia Power take off:


History
Experimental power take-offs were tried as early 
as 1878, and various homemade versions arose over 
the subsequent decades, but International 
Harvester Company (IHC) was first to install a 
PTO on a production tractor, with its model 8-16, 
introduced in 1918.[2] Edward A. Johnston, an IHC 
engineer, had been impressed by a homemade PTO 
that he saw in France about a decade before, 
improvised by a French farmer and mechanic 
surnamed Gougis.[2] He and his IHC colleagues 
incorporated the idea into the 8-16, and designed 
a family of implements to take advantage of the 
feature. In 1920, IHC offered this option on 
their 15-30 tractor, and it was the first 
PTO-equipped tractor to be submitted for a 
Nebraska tractor test. The first PTO standard was 
adopted by ASAE (the American Society of 
Agricultural Engineers) in April 1927. The PTO 
rotational speed was specified as 536 ± 10 rpm; 
the direction was clockwise. The speed was later 
changed to 540 rpm.[3] The PTO was a competitive 
advantage for IHC in the 1920s, and other 
companies eventually caught up with PTO 
implementation.

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors

[Fmiser]

> Curt Raymond wrote:

> Hmm, I'd doubt 37" tires. Maybe it was the rear axle of the
> wagon and there was a transmission involved... Actually now
> that I think of it Dad might have mentioned something about
> that. He claims to have seen the rig years later before it was
> sent off for scrap but never saw it in action.

It's pretty rare for a transmission to be overdrive, especially
at that time period - so typically it would only decrease the
road speed.

Or maybe the PTO could turn faster than 540 RPM.

Or maybe the differential had a ratio of 2.4:1

Or maybe it just _felt_ like 20 MPH!

--Philip

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors

[Fmiser]

> Craig wrote:

> On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 13:03:17 -0600 Fmiser 
> wrote:
> 
> > PTO RPM is typically 540, as I recall, so 900 RPM is a bit
> > fast.
> 
> There are two standard PTO speeds now, 540 RPM and 1000 RPM.

Yeah, I heard that.  But this was prior to 1933.  So what was
PTO speed then?

--   Philip

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors

[Michael Canfield]

I would bet on a carrier bearing for driveshaft support and a chain drive
to get the speed up from the 540rpm pto.  Likely back then the truck rear
had way low gears, like in the high 5's or 6's and even with tall tires
20mph would need a 2:1 ratio sprocket setup.  Neat idea.

Mike
On Nov 20, 2012 7:42 PM, "Curt Raymond"  wrote:

> Hmm, I'd doubt 37" tires. Maybe it was the rear axle of the wagon and
> there was a transmission involved...
> Actually now that I think of it Dad might have mentioned something about
> that. He claims to have seen the rig years later before it was sent off for
> scrap but never saw it in action.
>
> -Curt
>
>
>
> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 13:03:17 -0600
> From: Fmiser 
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors
> Message-ID: <20121120130317.42fbd0b2.fmi...@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> > Curt Raymond wrote:
>
> > ... so they took a truck
> > rear end and made it the front axle for a wagon. They powered
> > that axle with the PTO of the tractor. Supposedly this
> > arrangement could make about 20mph which I imagine to be as
> > fast as anybody would dare.
>
> Some rough calculations - with guesses.
>
> tire diameter in inches30
> tire circumference in ft7.853982
> road speed, MPH20
> road speed, feet/minute1760
> tire RPM at road speed224.09016
> differential ratio4
> driveshaft (PTO) RPM896.360639
>
>
> PTO RPM is typically 540, as I recall, so 900 RPM is a bit fast.
>
> Try again with other numbers
>
> tire diameter in inches37
> tire circumference in ft9.686577
> road speed, MPH20
> road speed, feet/minute1760
> tire RPM at road speed181.694724
> differential ratio3
> driveshaft RPM545.084173
>
> There.  With a 37" tall tire, and a axle ratio of 3:1, the
> numbers match up.  *smiles*  It's withing the realm of possible.
>
> --Philip, avoiding work.
>
> ___
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Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors

[Curt Raymond]

I have the tractor, it definitely has PTO. I *think* all Farmall tractors have 
PTO. That part of the story is without a doubt.

Engine speed is probably 1000rpm (my '52 Farmall Super M is 1200), the 540rpm 
PTO is almost a certainty.

-Curt

Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 18:03:41 -0600
From: Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com>
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

Yep.  The tractor in question, if it had a pto, would have been 540 
rpm@ 80% or so of engine power.

1080 RPM has more splines, and didn't come out until 1960s or so on 
high HP (for the time) tractors.  ~90+ HP would have been high HP for 
the time. 966 and up Internationals had 1000 RPM available.  I am not 
sure when it was first offered, or what models it was available, or 
when it became standard on certain models.  Probably first appeared 
on  JDs with the 4010 or 4020.

I didn't find any info on when the high RPM PTO first appeared, but I 
did find that in 1945 Cockshutt introduced the first live PTO.



>On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 13:03:17 -0600 Fmiser  wrote:
>
>>  PTO RPM is typically 540, as I recall, so 900 RPM is a bit fast.
>
>There are two standard PTO speeds now, 540 RPM and 1000 RPM.
>
>
>See
>http://salesmanual.deere.com/sales/salesmanual/en_NA/tractors/2010/feature/hitch_drawbar_and_pto/7030lf/7030lf_pto_options.html
>
>Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors

[Curt Raymond]

Hmm, I'd doubt 37" tires. Maybe it was the rear axle of the wagon and there was 
a transmission involved...
Actually now that I think of it Dad might have mentioned something about that. 
He claims to have seen the rig years later before it was sent off for scrap but 
never saw it in action.

-Curt



Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 13:03:17 -0600
From: Fmiser 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors
Message-ID: <20121120130317.42fbd0b2.fmi...@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

> Curt Raymond wrote:

> ... so they took a truck
> rear end and made it the front axle for a wagon. They powered
> that axle with the PTO of the tractor. Supposedly this
> arrangement could make about 20mph which I imagine to be as
> fast as anybody would dare.

Some rough calculations - with guesses.

tire diameter in inches30
tire circumference in ft7.853982
road speed, MPH20
road speed, feet/minute1760
tire RPM at road speed224.09016
differential ratio4
driveshaft (PTO) RPM896.360639


PTO RPM is typically 540, as I recall, so 900 RPM is a bit fast.

Try again with other numbers

tire diameter in inches37
tire circumference in ft9.686577
road speed, MPH20
road speed, feet/minute1760
tire RPM at road speed181.694724
differential ratio3
driveshaft RPM545.084173

There.  With a 37" tall tire, and a axle ratio of 3:1, the
numbers match up.  *smiles*  It's withing the realm of possible.

--Philip, avoiding work.

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors

[Dieselhead]

Yep.  The tractor in question, if it had a pto, would have been 540 
rpm@ 80% or so of engine power.


1080 RPM has more splines, and didn't come out until 1960s or so on 
high HP (for the time) tractors.  ~90+ HP would have been high HP for 
the time. 966 and up Internationals had 1000 RPM available.  I am not 
sure when it was first offered, or what models it was available, or 
when it became standard on certain models.  Probably first appeared 
on  JDs with the 4010 or 4020.


I didn't find any info on when the high RPM PTO first appeared, but I 
did find that in 1945 Cockshutt introduced the first live PTO.





On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 13:03:17 -0600 Fmiser  wrote:


 PTO RPM is typically 540, as I recall, so 900 RPM is a bit fast.


There are two standard PTO speeds now, 540 RPM and 1000 RPM.


See
http://salesmanual.deere.com/sales/salesmanual/en_NA/tractors/2010/feature/hitch_drawbar_and_pto/7030lf/7030lf_pto_options.html

Craig


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Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors

[Craig]

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 13:03:17 -0600 Fmiser  wrote:

> PTO RPM is typically 540, as I recall, so 900 RPM is a bit fast.

There are two standard PTO speeds now, 540 RPM and 1000 RPM.


See
http://salesmanual.deere.com/sales/salesmanual/en_NA/tractors/2010/feature/hitch_drawbar_and_pto/7030lf/7030lf_pto_options.html


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors

[Fmiser]

> Curt Raymond wrote:

> ... so they took a truck
> rear end and made it the front axle for a wagon. They powered
> that axle with the PTO of the tractor. Supposedly this
> arrangement could make about 20mph which I imagine to be as
> fast as anybody would dare.

Some rough calculations - with guesses.

tire diameter in inches 30
tire circumference in ft7.853982
road speed, MPH 20
road speed, feet/minute 1760
tire RPM at road speed  224.09016
differential ratio  4
driveshaft (PTO) RPM896.360639


PTO RPM is typically 540, as I recall, so 900 RPM is a bit fast.

Try again with other numbers

tire diameter in inches 37
tire circumference in ft9.686577
road speed, MPH 20
road speed, feet/minute 1760
tire RPM at road speed  181.694724
differential ratio  3
driveshaft RPM  545.084173

There.  With a 37" tall tire, and a axle ratio of 3:1, the
numbers match up.  *smiles*  It's withing the realm of possible.

--Philip, avoiding work.


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Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors

[dave walton]

No worse than riding a buggy on 2 lane rural roads posted at 55mph.

On Saturday, November 17, 2012, Rich Thomas wrote:

> Some of the Amish have some sort of dispensation about tractors, so they
> put road gears in them and can go quite fast.  They build these little
> wagon buggy things they can all crowd into, and go to Walmart and Tractor
> Supply.  I see them doing this in KY, it is funny as hell except it looks
> like a total recipe for disaster and death and destruction.
>
> -R
>
> On 11/17/12 2:04 PM, Michael Canfield wrote:
>
>> My neighbor put a hot running Chevy 250 inline 6 in an old Oliver 66.  He
>> got clocked @ 60mph skidding logs down a state highway.  Cop didn't give
>> him a ticket because he was afraid of getting laughed out of the station
>> house for writing a farm tractor a ticket for speeding on a 55mph road.
>>
>> Mike
>> On Nov 17, 2012 12:59 PM, "Dieselhead" <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>  
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAdIlgaAwMc&feature=related
>>> **
>>> >
>>>
>>> That is hilarious, especially in the field.   I showed it to a friend and
>>> he told me about a guy he baled hay with that put a nash engine in a
>>> Cockshutt.  (55 to 65 era)  Cockshutts were known for high road speeds.
>>>   With a big engine, he could pull the baler and 2 hayracks down the
>>> road at
>>> 30 MPH.
>>>
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>>> To search list archives 
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> >
>>>
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> >
>>>
>>>  __**_
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>> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>>
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>>
>>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors

[Curt Raymond]

I've yet to actually find the pictures but my grandmother swears this is true:

My great grandfather bought new a 1928 Farmall Regular. For those who don't 
know tractors the Regular was the first tractor with the now common tricycle 
front wheel arrangement where the two front wheels are close together. Top 
speed of that machine is about 4mph. He also owned a 1919 Buick open touring 
car which was normally used to go to town about 5 miles away. However to haul 
the whole family and produce to town, or to return with supplies or if they 
took the hired hands with them the Buick was too small so they took a truck 
rear end and made it the front axle for a wagon. They powered that axle with 
the PTO of the tractor. Supposedly this arrangement could make about 20mph 
which I imagine to be as fast as anybody would dare.
TK (great grandfather) died in 1933 when the brakes failed in the Buick and he 
was hit by a train, to give you an idea of the time period.

-Curt

Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2012 17:01:06 -0500
From: Rich Thomas 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors
Message-ID: <50a80922.90...@constructivity.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Some of the Amish have some sort of dispensation about tractors, so they 
put road gears in them and can go quite fast.  They build these little 
wagon buggy things they can all crowd into, and go to Walmart and 
Tractor Supply.  I see them doing this in KY, it is funny as hell except 
it looks like a total recipe for disaster and death and destruction.

-R


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Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors

[Rich Thomas]

Some of the Amish have some sort of dispensation about tractors, so they 
put road gears in them and can go quite fast.  They build these little 
wagon buggy things they can all crowd into, and go to Walmart and 
Tractor Supply.  I see them doing this in KY, it is funny as hell except 
it looks like a total recipe for disaster and death and destruction.


-R

On 11/17/12 2:04 PM, Michael Canfield wrote:

My neighbor put a hot running Chevy 250 inline 6 in an old Oliver 66.  He
got clocked @ 60mph skidding logs down a state highway.  Cop didn't give
him a ticket because he was afraid of getting laughed out of the station
house for writing a farm tractor a ticket for speeding on a 55mph road.

Mike
On Nov 17, 2012 12:59 PM, "Dieselhead" <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=JAdIlgaAwMc&feature=related

That is hilarious, especially in the field.   I showed it to a friend and
he told me about a guy he baled hay with that put a nash engine in a
Cockshutt.  (55 to 65 era)  Cockshutts were known for high road speeds.
  With a big engine, he could pull the baler and 2 hayracks down the road at
30 MPH.

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo?

[Michael Canfield]

My neighbor put a hot running Chevy 250 inline 6 in an old Oliver 66.  He
got clocked @ 60mph skidding logs down a state highway.  Cop didn't give
him a ticket because he was afraid of getting laughed out of the station
house for writing a farm tractor a ticket for speeding on a 55mph road.

Mike
On Nov 17, 2012 12:59 PM, "Dieselhead" <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=JAdIlgaAwMc&feature=related
>>
>
>
> That is hilarious, especially in the field.   I showed it to a friend and
> he told me about a guy he baled hay with that put a nash engine in a
> Cockshutt.  (55 to 65 era)  Cockshutts were known for high road speeds.
>  With a big engine, he could pull the baler and 2 hayracks down the road at
> 30 MPH.
>
> __**_
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives 
> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com
>
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Re: [MBZ] Volvo?

[Dieselhead]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAdIlgaAwMc&feature=related



That is hilarious, especially in the field.   I showed it to a friend 
and he told me about a guy he baled hay with that put a nash engine 
in a Cockshutt.  (55 to 65 era)  Cockshutts were known for high road 
speeds.  With a big engine, he could pull the baler and 2 hayracks 
down the road at 30 MPH.


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[MBZ] Volvo?

[Randy Bennell]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAdIlgaAwMc&feature=related

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo on Wilton Wheels

[E M]

Kind of reminds me a lot of a BMW 3.0 cs, in exterior styling anyway.

Ed
300E

On 26 January 2011 20:03, OK Don  wrote:

> I've always thought that car was a bad joke by VW - the ugliest car they
> ever made. Guess I was wrong - someone likes it!
>
> On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 5:28 PM, E M  wrote:
>
> > This is more your style me thinks.  I'd sure like to have one like this!
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:VW_Typ_34_Karmann-Ghia_1600_L.JPG
> >
> > Ed
> > 300E
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> OK Don
> 2001 ML320
> 1992 300D 2.5T
> 1990 300D 2.5T
> 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
> ___
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Re: [MBZ] Volvo on Wilton Wheels

[OK Don]

I've always thought that car was a bad joke by VW - the ugliest car they
ever made. Guess I was wrong - someone likes it!

On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 5:28 PM, E M  wrote:

> This is more your style me thinks.  I'd sure like to have one like this!
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:VW_Typ_34_Karmann-Ghia_1600_L.JPG
>
> Ed
> 300E
>
>
>


-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300D 2.5T
1990 300D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] Volvo on Wilton Wheels

[WILTON]

Yeah, not bad, either.  'Caught a glimpse of one on "Pickers" last night or 
night before.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "E M" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volvo on Wilton Wheels



This is more your style me thinks.  I'd sure like to have one like this!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:VW_Typ_34_Karmann-Ghia_1600_L.JPG

Ed
300E

On 26 January 2011 16:57, WILTON  wrote:


Really nice, 'cept the wheels.

Wilton

- Original Message - From: "Mitch Haley" 
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 4:13 PM
Subject: [MBZ] Volvo on Wilton Wheels


 Those P1800s were beautiful cars, especially for a 1960s product of

Sweden.

http://blog.autoworld.com.my/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/vox_volvo_p1800_1.jpg

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo on Wilton Wheels

[E M]

This is more your style me thinks.  I'd sure like to have one like this!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:VW_Typ_34_Karmann-Ghia_1600_L.JPG

Ed
300E

On 26 January 2011 16:57, WILTON  wrote:

> Really nice, 'cept the wheels.
>
> Wilton
>
> - Original Message - From: "Mitch Haley" 
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 4:13 PM
> Subject: [MBZ] Volvo on Wilton Wheels
>
>
>  Those P1800s were beautiful cars, especially for a 1960s product of
>> Sweden.
>>
>> http://blog.autoworld.com.my/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/vox_volvo_p1800_1.jpg
>>
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Re: [MBZ] Volvo on Wilton Wheels

[Mitch Haley]

WILTON wrote:

Really nice, 'cept the wheels.


This got my attention:
"Powering the beast is a 4.4-liter V8 borrowed from a Volvo XC90 SUV that’s been 
force-fed by a turbocharger and feeds its 600 horses through a six-speed manual 
transmission to the rear wheels."


http://blog.autoworld.com.my/index.php/2009/05/06/tasty-volvo-p1800-custom/

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo on Wilton Wheels

[WILTON]

Really nice, 'cept the wheels.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Mitch Haley" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 4:13 PM
Subject: [MBZ] Volvo on Wilton Wheels


Those P1800s were beautiful cars, especially for a 1960s product of 
Sweden.

http://blog.autoworld.com.my/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/vox_volvo_p1800_1.jpg

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo on Wilton Wheels

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Mitch Haley  wrote:
> Those P1800s were beautiful cars, especially for a 1960s product of Sweden.
> http://blog.autoworld.com.my/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/vox_volvo_p1800_1.jpg
>

I think that look suits a VW Type III better:
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3215084/1968-volkswagen-notchback

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[MBZ] Volvo on Wilton Wheels

[Mitch Haley]

Those P1800s were beautiful cars, especially for a 1960s product of Sweden.
http://blog.autoworld.com.my/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/vox_volvo_p1800_1.jpg

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[MBZ] Volvo safety

[RELNGSON]

http://jalopnik.com/5533328/volvo-safety-demo-goes-wrong

Be sure to scroll down to the comments.

RLE
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Re: [MBZ] Volvo

[Tyler Backman]

A 240 should never ping on (R+M)/2=87 octane fuel. I'd first check the  
timing, and air/fuel mixture (via O2 sensor). If those are correct,  
then I'd do a "seafoam treatment" (search on turbobricks.com for  
instructions) and install a new set of factory temp NGK copper spark  
plugs. If you're still getting pinging after that, check the knock  
sensor (if you have one- depending on year/model), and the engine  
compression. If the compression is too high, that's a good indication  
of carbon. It's pretty easy to pull the head and clean off the carbon  
on a 240, if seafoam and italian tune-ups aren't enough.

I forget if the late 80s-early 90s N/A 240s have a knock sensor or  
not. My 1987 740 Turbo has one, and I always run it on 87 octane. Even  
pulling a trailer up a steep grade in 110 degree heat, I don't get any  
knocking, or notice any difference in fuel economy or performance  
between 87 and 91 octane.

Volvo does recommend using 91 octane under certain conditions (high  
temperatures, steep grades, etc.) but this is just to give an extra  
margin of safety. If you're getting pinging on 87 octane something is  
wrong.

Sincerely,
Tyler William H Backman
1987 190D Turbo Biodiesel

On Sep 2, 2008, at 2:09 PM, Jerry Herrman wrote:

> I also get pinging on my 91 volvo 240 even on slight uphill pulls.  
> If I
> agree that it should not ping, what specific steps do I take to find  
> out and
> then remedy the problem?
>
> Jerry
> 82 240D (Now sold)I

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo

[Peter Frederick]

It has a knock sensor -- should set a trouble code if it's not  
working (at least the turbo's have a knock sensor, anyway).  Will  
never knock, but running with the ignition retarded murders milage.

One thing to check is the distributor shaft seal.  If you have the  
engine with the distributor on the rear of the camshaft, the internal  
o-ring will eventually go bad and leak oil into the dizzy, with the  
predictable results (severe carbon tracking).  Pull it and check --  
if there's oil, you have to take the distributor shaft apart and  
renew the o-ring.  Terrible PITA as they are usually VERY stuck, but  
worth it in better running.

Peter
On Sep 2, 2008, at 4:21 PM, R A Bennell wrote:

> No idea how it might apply to this situation but I had an 86  
> Suburban that pinged unless I ran midgrade fuel -
> until I changed out the valve seals. After a bit of running it was  
> happy with the regular fuel and had more power
> and made better mileage. Maybe the oil being burned contributed to  
> the carbon buildup?
>
> Do you get any blue smoke on first startup? That is what my truck  
> did and what caused me to change the seals.
>
> Randy
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jerry Herrman
> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 3:10 PM
> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> Subject: [MBZ] Volvo
>
>
> I also get pinging on my 91 volvo 240 even on slight uphill pulls.  
> If I
> agree that it should not ping, what specific steps do I take to  
> find out and
> then remedy the problem?
>
> Jerry
> 82 240D (Now sold)I
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Volvo

[R A Bennell]

No idea how it might apply to this situation but I had an 86 Suburban that 
pinged unless I ran midgrade fuel -
until I changed out the valve seals. After a bit of running it was happy with 
the regular fuel and had more power
and made better mileage. Maybe the oil being burned contributed to the carbon 
buildup?

Do you get any blue smoke on first startup? That is what my truck did and what 
caused me to change the seals.

Randy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jerry Herrman
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 3:10 PM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: [MBZ] Volvo


I also get pinging on my 91 volvo 240 even on slight uphill pulls. If I
agree that it should not ping, what specific steps do I take to find out and
then remedy the problem?

Jerry
82 240D (Now sold)I


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[MBZ] Volvo

[Jerry Herrman]

I also get pinging on my 91 volvo 240 even on slight uphill pulls. If I 
agree that it should not ping, what specific steps do I take to find out and 
then remedy the problem?

Jerry
82 240D (Now sold)I


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Re: [MBZ] Volvo- Steering Columns

[Hendrik & Fay]

Obviously it would cost more to build a current C class than a Hyundai. 
Both in development cost and cost of components.
You can't just look at the actual cost of putting the machine together 
on an assembly line. The C class is full of near new technology while 
the Hyundai is a copy of technology from other manufacturers. Sure MB 
have to have a higher margin per car because of the amount of vehicles 
they sell.
I did read how much money MB poured into the 204, something like 600 
million (not sure if it was euros or $'s). Does Hyundai spend 600 
million on developing one of their models?

Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
> I would think it would cost more to build a safer car. I dont see how it 
> could be the same.
>
> Hendrik & Fay wrote:
>   
>> So Mercedes cars cost the same to build/develop as a Chinese car? So why 
>> do they charge so much money for them?
>> Guess it is all that extra money they have to pay the workers, I can't 
>> wait till they build MB's in China and then we can buy Mercs for under 10K.
>>
>> Peter Frederick wrote:
>> 
>>>  Doesn't cost a cent more to 
>>> manufacture a fairly safe car than a hunk of junk.
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>>   
>> 
>
>   

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo- Steering Columns

[Mitch Haley]

archer wrote:
> 
> Speaking of Chinese machine tools, I've been getting regular flyers from
> "Smithy" machine tools in Ann Arbor, Michigan.  Their very nice looking
> lathes, which also have a vertical mill, must be made in China; considering
> that their prices range from $1500 to only $3500 for relatively complex
> machines.  Has anyone had experience with their lathes?

No, but I've heard that Grizzly (spelling?) sells the same stuff cheaper.
I've got a machinist friend in New England who told me several years ago
to ask him what deal he could get before buying any Chinese machinery, but
IIRC we were mostly talking about my driving out to his place and getting
it loaded in my truck. Don't know if he could have it drop shipped, or if
he still deals in machine tools. 
Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo- Steering Columns

[archer]

- Original Message - 
From: "Peter Frederick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 > And don't forget, the Chinese car is nothing like a Benz, and they
> cheat terribly on both materials and exchange rate.  One of the same
> quality would be much more expensive, just like high quality Chinese or
> Japanese machine tools.
> Peter
---
Speaking of Chinese machine tools, I've been getting regular flyers from 
"Smithy" machine tools in Ann Arbor, Michigan.  Their very nice looking 
lathes, which also have a vertical mill, must be made in China; considering 
that their prices range from $1500 to only $3500 for relatively complex 
machines.  Has anyone had experience with their lathes?
Gerry 


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Re: [MBZ] Volvo- Steering Columns

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

I would think it would cost more to build a safer car. I dont see how it 
could be the same.

Hendrik & Fay wrote:
> So Mercedes cars cost the same to build/develop as a Chinese car? So why 
> do they charge so much money for them?
> Guess it is all that extra money they have to pay the workers, I can't 
> wait till they build MB's in China and then we can buy Mercs for under 10K.
> 
> Peter Frederick wrote:
>>  Doesn't cost a cent more to 
>> manufacture a fairly safe car than a hunk of junk.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>
>>
>>   
> 
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-- 
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
  94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic,
  91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro,
  84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D,
  76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250
http://www.okiebenz.com

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo- Steering Columns

[Peter Frederick]

Yeah, the big pad in the center, the collapsable "bowl" underneath, and 
the short steering column connected to the steering box just in front 
of your feet makes a big difference.  If you have a belt on, you will 
hit it square on, smashing the bowl down about six inches while you 
only touch the pad and the rim (which won't break off the column since 
it bolts onto the bowl).  I cannot imagine an impact that would not 
kill you outright from brain stem detachement or aortal tears that 
would push the steering box up.

The old Corvair had the steering box right behind the front bumper 
(less than six inches in) and a long, straight steering column of solid 
steel rod.  Classic death was a minor rear-ender that broke the 
driver's neck when the steering wheel shot out of the dash and  hooked 
the driver under the chin.

Plain stupid if you ask me, why would you ever put the steering box up 
there?  GM did it on everything I know of from the early 50's at least 
to the late 70's.

I'm sure you, like I, was very glad to be driving a Benz when you 
spotted the idiot about to hit you!

Peter


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Re: [MBZ] Volvo- Steering Columns

[Peter Frederick]

MBs aren't that expensive in Europe, pretty competitive with the upper 
line Ford and GM products, and they are luxury cars.  Weight for 
weight, though, the only difference is design and assembly.  MBUSA used 
to mark them up 100% -- it was cheaper to take delivery direct from the 
factory AND take a two week vacation in Germany than it was to buy one 
off the showroom floor!  My brother in law priced one in 1983 -- list 
price at the dealer in Evansville was almost exactly double for an SD 
-- $19000 in Germany, $38000 here.

MB makes cars from stampings just like everyone else.  May have more 
metal where it counts, but a W124 or W115 chassis weighs the same as an 
85 Buick Century and is almost exactly the same size, so it's gotta be 
how it's put together, because the Benz, even the W115, is vastly safer 
for the occupants and doesn't have any more material in it.

American cars, in my experience, are very poorly engineered for low 
cost assembly.  I remember a friend's story about when Ford bought 
Volvo and was going to "fix" their assembly cost problems.  Found out 
real fast that it cost Volvo less than 2/3 as much to assemble a car IN 
SWEDEN than it cost Ford in the US since Volvo designed for easy 
assembly instead of "stick a million screws in it".  I suspect Ford 
learned a lot from that experience, and I know that Chrysler did from 
being part of Benz.  GM still can't put a car together without a 
billion hours of awkward  hand labor, that's why they are in financial 
trouble.  Fifty screws run in with a power tool by someone lying on 
their back is no substitute for thinking for a couple minutes to find a 
way to make all the dash parts interlock so that a couple bolts and  a 
dozen screws hold the entire thing in properly, without rattles and 
squeaks.

I had to replace the wiper assembly in my 740 (actually, I fixed it but 
had to take it out anyway) and wasn't looking forward to the experience 
after putting a new washer pump on my sister-in-law's Buick which took 
several hours.  Funny, on the Volvo all I had to do was pull the wiper 
arms, remove ONE screw and lift off the cowl cover, then unplug the 
wiper motor and take out the retaining bolts, out it came.  10 min max 
time.  You tell me who thought about assembly and who didn't.

And don't forget, the Chinese car is nothing like a Benz, and they 
cheat terribly on both materials and exchange rate.  One of the same 
quality would be much more expensive, just like high quality Chinese or 
Japanese machine tools.

Peter


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Re: [MBZ] Volvo- Steering Columns

[Bill Ringgold]

The "dead at the scene" drunk driver that demolished my 1962 220Sb died from 
steering column impalement.  I had no internal chest injuries  [but numerous 
others] thanks to the MB steering wheel.  Good technology.
BillR
Jacksonville  FL 

-Original Message-
From: "Tom Hargrave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" 
Sent: 11/20/07 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volvo- Steering Columns

The collapsible steering column was invented by GM in the late 60s and GM
"gave" the patentable technology to the auto industry because they though it
was too important to keep for themselves.

This was the most important safety advancement in the 60's, probably
followed by Mercedes inventing crumple zones in the early 60's. Mercedes
also "gave" that patentable technology to the auto industry for the same
reason GM gave the collapsible steering column to the auto industry.

The most important safety advancement of all time probably is the driver
side airbags, invented by Ford. Mercedes was the first manufacturer to have
driver side airbags as standard equipment & that was in the 300E.

But nothing has advanced safety (and the cost) of vehicles than the state of
California deciding that they had the right to sue the Federal Government
for not imposing high enough safety standards! Now they are attempting the
same thing with fuel economy standards.

Hope you like driving itty bitty cars with itty bitty engines that get 60
MPG. If California has its way then they will soon be coming to a car lot
near you!

Thanks,
Tom Hargrave
www.kegkits.com
256-656-1924
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of R A Bennell
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 5:13 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volvo- Steering Columns

My 68 Chevy has a steering shaft close to 4 feet long and about 3/4 of an
inch in diameter. I wouldn't really want
it to come poking through the steering wheel and into me. I have to admit
that is one reason why I have considered
selling it. My wife and one of my sons is opposed as they think it is a
classic.

Randy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Peter Frederick
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 4:57 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volvo


Ah, the good old days.  Makes you wonder why people insist on driving
pickup trucks, which until a few years ago were identical to what they
were in 1950 with the exception of a collapsable steering column.  I
remember the days when a front collision usually resulted in the death
of the driver due to chest injuries from the steering wheel and column
impaling them.

Benz, naturally, had padded and them collapsable steering columns long
before they were required in the US, and has always put the steering
box way back behind the axle, unlike GM who used to hand the bumper on
it.

The driver that hit me doing about 60 walked away unscathed, due to the
crush zones in both vehicles and his air bags.  I just got a serious
kick in the ribs and some glass in my arm.  I'm quite happy.

Peter


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Re: [MBZ] Volvo

[Peter Frederick]

W116.  The W109/108 and W115/114 tanks are under the trunk floor, 
inside a fairly strong box so that they don't get punctured so easily, 
but behind the rear seat pretty well eliminates fuel hazards in any 
collision the occupants are likely to survive.

Peter


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Re: [MBZ] Volvo

[Peter Frederick]

Driving an armored limo without training ain't too damn bright, either, 
but that's not her fault.  That car weighed about 8000 lbs, not your 
usual W126 SEL.

Peter


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Re: [MBZ] Volvo- Steering Columns

[Hendrik & Fay]

So Mercedes cars cost the same to build/develop as a Chinese car? So why 
do they charge so much money for them?
Guess it is all that extra money they have to pay the workers, I can't 
wait till they build MB's in China and then we can buy Mercs for under 10K.

Peter Frederick wrote:
>  Doesn't cost a cent more to 
> manufacture a fairly safe car than a hunk of junk.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>   

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo

[Hendrik & Fay]

I think the 123 or 116 where the first to have this, doing this 
eliminated the fuel tank as part of the rear crumple zone.

Peter Frederick wrote:
> The Benz tank is in the trunk, not the passenger compartment. There is 
> a solid steel sheet between tank and seat, unlike the old PU where it 
> was bare and the springs hit it.  There is also quite a bit of crush 
> room before you get to it, not a single thin sheet of low grade steel.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>   

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo

[Hendrik & Fay]

I have no symphaty, sitting in a speeding car driving through narrow 
streets is a dangerous activity. Not wearing a seatbelt during this 
activity is so stupid.
I dare say her bodyguard might have suggested she put one on, after all 
he did.

Peter Frederick wrote:
> Diana would have walked away from that crash if she'd had a belt on -- 
> she died from a ruptures spleen from having the front seat headrest 
> rammed into her abdomen.  Stupid accident and unnecessary death.  Very 
> sad.
>
> Peter
>
>
>   

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo

[Rick Knoble]

> Race cars don't have air bags. They have full roll cages, 6 point restraint
> systems and head restraints. If we had the same on our cars then we would
> not need airbags. But then driving would not be near as much fun.

Sure it would. We'd just have to do away with speed limits. Mandate a minimum 
power to weight ratio of 1 hp to 6 lbs. Oh, and do away with attorney's 
abilities to sue for liability, malfeasance or whatever it is they sue for

Rick Knoble 
'85 300 CD
'87 190 DT

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo

[Rich Thomas]

"Think of it as evolution in action"

--R

Peter Frederick wrote:
> Diana would have walked away from that crash if she'd had a belt on -- 
> she died from a ruptures spleen from having the front seat headrest 
> rammed into her abdomen.  Stupid accident and unnecessary death.  Very 
> sad.
>
> Peter
>
>   


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Re: [MBZ] Volvo

[Peter Frederick]

Diana would have walked away from that crash if she'd had a belt on -- 
she died from a ruptures spleen from having the front seat headrest 
rammed into her abdomen.  Stupid accident and unnecessary death.  Very 
sad.

Peter


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Re: [MBZ] Volvo

[Peter Frederick]

The Benz tank is in the trunk, not the passenger compartment. There is 
a solid steel sheet between tank and seat, unlike the old PU where it 
was bare and the springs hit it.  There is also quite a bit of crush 
room before you get to it, not a single thin sheet of low grade steel.

Peter


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Re: [MBZ] Volvo- Steering Columns

[Peter Frederick]

Mercedes started working on airbags in the early 60s, too (tested in 
the W108s).  Detail work kept them from being installed in cars for 
quite a while -- something about killing the passengers with the air 
bags and blowing the windows out

Airbags are great.  Only good for one shot, though, and no replacement 
for seat belts in any situation -- my belt kept me safely in my seat 
(although my head seems to have barked the roof, I got a nice rug burn 
in my big bald spot!).

American manufacturers were busy spending huge piles of money lobbying 
Congress to stop legistation for safety features, not making safer 
cars, that lasted up to the mid 70's.  Doesn't cost a cent more to 
manufacture a fairly safe car than a hunk of junk.

Peter


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Re: [MBZ] Volvo- Steering Columns

[Peter Frederick]

Mercedes patented the crumple zones in the late 40's, was in production 
in 1953 with the Ponton.  Crushable steering columns were installed in 
the early 60's -- check out any Finny.

Peter


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Re: [MBZ] Volvo

[Peter Frederick]

Another GM special -- dual fuel container and rear bumper mount.

Peter


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Re: [MBZ] Volvo seatbelts

[Curt Raymond]

Never worked on a farm eh?
My Dad's Jeep dings CONSTANTLY if you don't have your belt on. When we were at 
hunting camp a couple weeks ago we got quite adept at buckling the belt behind 
us once we got into the bush.
If I get into an accident in the bush at 10mph I think I'll be okay.

Around the farm the thing is even worse, if the engine is on for 5 minutes the 
doors lock automagically. Dad has managed to lock himself out TWICE. There are 
lots of times you might want to be out of the vehicle but keep it running, like 
if its cold out or when you're jumpstarting a very dead battery...
Stupid auto features are a bane...

-Curt

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 10:50:41 +1030
From: Hendrik & Fay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volvo seatbelts
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Yet drivers still die in race cars and if we had all that stuff in the 
everyday cars, people would still die because they didn't put on their 
seat belts/harness and that is why you need air bags for idiots.
If you dig into the history of the air bag you will find that the 
primary driving force behind it's development was the fact that a large
 
percentage of people don't wear seatbelts (personally I think let em 
die, if they are too stupid/arrogant/ignorant to not spend 5 seconds 
putting on the belt they deserve to be culled from the gene pool).
A seatbelt with active restraint will stop you hitting the steering 
wheel (depending on a number of factors) and then you can wait for the 
air bag to punch you in the face.
Anyway if the government was serious about our safety they would
 mandate 
that every new vehicle be fitted with sensors that detect when a person
 
is sitting on a seat and not wearing a seat belt and the car can't go 
until the idiot has managed to figure out how to use a seatbelt.

   
-
Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.
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Re: [MBZ] Volvo seatbelts

[Kevin]

They did this, and I have had a couple of cars with this interlock.

Granted, in 1974, the interlock was easily bypassed, either way, it was 
abandoned quickly. Nowadays, manufacturers just put a chime that gets 
really obnoxious if you go faster than 15 mph without your seatbelt attached.

On Wed, Nov 21, 2007 at 10:50:41AM +1030, Hendrik & Fay wrote:
> Anyway if the government was serious about our safety they would mandate 
> that every new vehicle be fitted with sensors that detect when a person 
> is sitting on a seat and not wearing a seat belt and the car can't go 
> until the idiot has managed to figure out how to use a seatbelt.

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo seatbelts

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Nov 20, 2007 4:42 PM, Allan Streib <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hendrik & Fay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Anyway if the government was serious about our safety they would
> > mandate that every new vehicle be fitted with sensors that detect
> > when a person is sitting on a seat and not wearing a seat belt and
> > the car can't go until the idiot has managed to figure out how to
> > use a seatbelt.
>
> Actually I think VW did that back in the '70s (had a starter interlock
> in the driver's seat belt) but people actually went to the trouble to
> bypass it or would buckle the seat belt behind them and just sit on it
> rather than wear the damn thing.
>

All cars did for one year in the U.S.!

Alex Chamberlain
'87 300D Turbo et al.

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo seatbelts

[Allan Streib]

Hendrik & Fay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Anyway if the government was serious about our safety they would
> mandate that every new vehicle be fitted with sensors that detect
> when a person is sitting on a seat and not wearing a seat belt and
> the car can't go until the idiot has managed to figure out how to
> use a seatbelt.

Actually I think VW did that back in the '70s (had a starter interlock
in the driver's seat belt) but people actually went to the trouble to
bypass it or would buckle the seat belt behind them and just sit on it
rather than wear the damn thing.

-- 
1983 300D
1966 230

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo

[Allan Streib]

"Gary Hurst" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> have they improved air bags or is my government still hell bent on
> trying to kill little people.  (hey, who can blame them?)

I believe current technology airbags deploy with a force proportional
to the impact, or they may assume that the driver is belted and does
not need his/her full body weight restrained.  I think some vehicles
have a weight sensor in the seat and adjust the airbag force
accordingly.

-- 
1983 300D
1966 230

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo

[Allan Streib]

"Tom Hargrave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Air bags were not developed for people who do not wear seatbelts,

I remember a magazine ad (I think it was Olds, or some GM marque)
where they said their new air bag system eliminated the need to wear
"inconvenient" and "uncomfortable" seat belts, in fact if you ordered
the air bag system you could order the car *without* seat belts if you
wanted...  They may have been not have been developed to eliminate
seat belts, but at least some automakers marketed them this way.

> they were developed to work along with seatbelts because a seatbelt
> will not prevent you from over-extending your spine & neck and a
> seatbelt will not prevent you from having a collision with the
> steering wheel.

I guess anecdotal evidence does not prove anything, but when I got hit
in an offset head-on, both cars going 30 - 40 MPH, I did not hit the
steering wheel OR the airbag because my seat/shoulder belt held me in
place.  I was completely uninjured.

> Seat belts were invented to prevent you from being ejected from the
> car. Shoulder harnesses were an improvement over just seat belts,
> but not much of one.

Shoulder belts with inertial locking or active tensioning are quite an
improvment IMO, they keep your upper body from pitching forward into
the steering wheel or dash, whereas lap belts do not.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D
1966 230

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo seatbelts

[Hendrik & Fay]

Yet drivers still die in race cars and if we had all that stuff in the 
everyday cars, people would still die because they didn't put on their 
seat belts/harness and that is why you need air bags for idiots.
If you dig into the history of the air bag you will find that the 
primary driving force behind it's development was the fact that a large 
percentage of people don't wear seatbelts (personally I think let em 
die, if they are too stupid/arrogant/ignorant to not spend 5 seconds 
putting on the belt they deserve to be culled from the gene pool).
A seatbelt with active restraint will stop you hitting the steering 
wheel (depending on a number of factors) and then you can wait for the 
air bag to punch you in the face.
Anyway if the government was serious about our safety they would mandate 
that every new vehicle be fitted with sensors that detect when a person 
is sitting on a seat and not wearing a seat belt and the car can't go 
until the idiot has managed to figure out how to use a seatbelt.

Tom Hargrave wrote:
> Race cars don't have air bags. They have full roll cages, 6 point restraint
> systems and head restraints. If we had the same on our cars then we would
> not need airbags. But then driving would not be near as much fun.
>
> Air bags were not developed for people who do not wear seatbelts, they were
> developed to work along with seatbelts because a seatbelt will not prevent
> you from over-extending your spine & neck and a seatbelt will not prevent
> you from having a collision with the steering wheel. Seat belts were
> invented to prevent you from being ejected from the car. Shoulder harnesses
> were an improvement over just seat belts, but not much of one.
>
> Thanks,
> Tom Hargrave
> www.kegkits.com
> 256-656-1924
>  
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Hendrik & Fay
> Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 5:42 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volvo
>
> That's the point, airbags where developed for people who don't wear 
> seatbelts. Do racing cars have airbags? Look at the Princess Diana 
> crash, the only person who survived was the one wearing a seat belt and 
> the driver with a air bag did not.
> Airbags are a false safety thing and a seatbelt with a restraint system 
> is gonna do more in a serious crash. However if the missus feels happier 
> to be driving a Swedish brick with a bag then why not.
>
> Hendrik
> no air bags but lots of seat belts that get put on before the car moves off
>
> Allan Streib wrote:
>   
>> "Kaleb C. Striplin, work" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>
>>   
>> 
>>> So you got rid of the car because it didnt have an airbag?  MB's
>>> have been plenty of safe long before there were airbags.  I think
>>> they are overrated anyway.
>>> 
>>>   
>> Agreed, if you wear a seat belt the air bags are not likely to do a
>> lot for you, and I don't really like driving around with a bomb
>> pointed at my face all the time.
>>
>> When my F150 was hit (offset frontal collision) the airbag went off
>> but I was wearing my seat belt and it (the airbag) never touched me.
>>
>> Allan
>>
>>   
>> 
>
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>   

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo

[Tom Hargrave]

Race cars don't have air bags. They have full roll cages, 6 point restraint
systems and head restraints. If we had the same on our cars then we would
not need airbags. But then driving would not be near as much fun.

Air bags were not developed for people who do not wear seatbelts, they were
developed to work along with seatbelts because a seatbelt will not prevent
you from over-extending your spine & neck and a seatbelt will not prevent
you from having a collision with the steering wheel. Seat belts were
invented to prevent you from being ejected from the car. Shoulder harnesses
were an improvement over just seat belts, but not much of one.

Thanks,
Tom Hargrave
www.kegkits.com
256-656-1924
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Hendrik & Fay
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 5:42 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volvo

That's the point, airbags where developed for people who don't wear 
seatbelts. Do racing cars have airbags? Look at the Princess Diana 
crash, the only person who survived was the one wearing a seat belt and 
the driver with a air bag did not.
Airbags are a false safety thing and a seatbelt with a restraint system 
is gonna do more in a serious crash. However if the missus feels happier 
to be driving a Swedish brick with a bag then why not.

Hendrik
no air bags but lots of seat belts that get put on before the car moves off

Allan Streib wrote:
> "Kaleb C. Striplin, work" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>   
>> So you got rid of the car because it didnt have an airbag?  MB's
>> have been plenty of safe long before there were airbags.  I think
>> they are overrated anyway.
>> 
>
> Agreed, if you wear a seat belt the air bags are not likely to do a
> lot for you, and I don't really like driving around with a bomb
> pointed at my face all the time.
>
> When my F150 was hit (offset frontal collision) the airbag went off
> but I was wearing my seat belt and it (the airbag) never touched me.
>
> Allan
>
>   

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Nov 20, 2007 3:37 PM, Tom Hargrave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Actually, inside the cab was the safest place for the tank because it's in
> the center of the vehicle where it is less likely to get ruptured.

I see your point, but it seems to me the advantage of the tank being
in the center of the vehicle is far outweighed by the drawback of only
having one thin layer of sheet metal between the gasoline and fragile
humans.

> By the way, isn't your Mercedes fuel tank right behind the back seat

Sure, but in that case it's isolated from the passenger compartment by
the seatback and a second wall of steel, IIRC, greatly reducing the
chance that inflammable vapors would occupy the same space as humans
during a crash.

Alex Chamberlain
'87 300D Turbo et al.

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo

[Gary Hurst]

have they improved air bags or is my government still hell bent on trying to
kill little people.  (hey, who can blame them?)

On Nov 20, 2007 1:16 PM, Allan Streib <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Rich Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > My auntie got front-ended a few months back by some girl who crossed
> > the centerline, the air bag went off, burned her face and chest
> > something fierce, and did a number on her face too as it was all
> > bruised, puffy, black, ugly.
>
> If that was a "first generation" air bag those are especially
> aggressive, I think the DOT rule at that time was that they had to
> assume an unbelted driver.
>
> --
> 1983 300D
> 1966 230
>
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Re: [MBZ] Volvo

[Hendrik & Fay]

That's the point, airbags where developed for people who don't wear 
seatbelts. Do racing cars have airbags? Look at the Princess Diana 
crash, the only person who survived was the one wearing a seat belt and 
the driver with a air bag did not.
Airbags are a false safety thing and a seatbelt with a restraint system 
is gonna do more in a serious crash. However if the missus feels happier 
to be driving a Swedish brick with a bag then why not.

Hendrik
no air bags but lots of seat belts that get put on before the car moves off

Allan Streib wrote:
> "Kaleb C. Striplin, work" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>   
>> So you got rid of the car because it didnt have an airbag?  MB's
>> have been plenty of safe long before there were airbags.  I think
>> they are overrated anyway.
>> 
>
> Agreed, if you wear a seat belt the air bags are not likely to do a
> lot for you, and I don't really like driving around with a bomb
> pointed at my face all the time.
>
> When my F150 was hit (offset frontal collision) the airbag went off
> but I was wearing my seat belt and it (the airbag) never touched me.
>
> Allan
>
>   

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo

[Tom Hargrave]

Actually, inside the cab was the safest place for the tank because it's in
the center of the vehicle where it is less likely to get ruptured.

By the way, isn't your Mercedes fuel tank right behind the back seat
It's there for the same reason.

Thanks,
Tom Hargrave
www.kegkits.com
256-656-1924
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Alex Chamberlain
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 5:06 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volvo

On Nov 20, 2007 2:57 PM, Peter Frederick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ah, the good old days.  Makes you wonder why people insist on driving
> pickup trucks, which until a few years ago were identical to what they
> were in 1950 with the exception of a collapsable steering column.  I
> remember the days when a front collision usually resulted in the death
> of the driver due to chest injuries from the steering wheel and column
> impaling them.

Don't forget the genius who put the gas tank inside the cabin so that
the driver and passenger could more easily be incinerated.

Alex Chamberlain
'87 300D Turbo et al.

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo- Steering Columns

[Tom Hargrave]

The collapsible steering column was invented by GM in the late 60s and GM
"gave" the patentable technology to the auto industry because they though it
was too important to keep for themselves.

This was the most important safety advancement in the 60's, probably
followed by Mercedes inventing crumple zones in the early 60's. Mercedes
also "gave" that patentable technology to the auto industry for the same
reason GM gave the collapsible steering column to the auto industry.

The most important safety advancement of all time probably is the driver
side airbags, invented by Ford. Mercedes was the first manufacturer to have
driver side airbags as standard equipment & that was in the 300E.

But nothing has advanced safety (and the cost) of vehicles than the state of
California deciding that they had the right to sue the Federal Government
for not imposing high enough safety standards! Now they are attempting the
same thing with fuel economy standards.

Hope you like driving itty bitty cars with itty bitty engines that get 60
MPG. If California has its way then they will soon be coming to a car lot
near you!

Thanks,
Tom Hargrave
www.kegkits.com
256-656-1924
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of R A Bennell
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 5:13 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volvo- Steering Columns

My 68 Chevy has a steering shaft close to 4 feet long and about 3/4 of an
inch in diameter. I wouldn't really want
it to come poking through the steering wheel and into me. I have to admit
that is one reason why I have considered
selling it. My wife and one of my sons is opposed as they think it is a
classic.

Randy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Peter Frederick
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 4:57 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volvo


Ah, the good old days.  Makes you wonder why people insist on driving
pickup trucks, which until a few years ago were identical to what they
were in 1950 with the exception of a collapsable steering column.  I
remember the days when a front collision usually resulted in the death
of the driver due to chest injuries from the steering wheel and column
impaling them.

Benz, naturally, had padded and them collapsable steering columns long
before they were required in the US, and has always put the steering
box way back behind the axle, unlike GM who used to hand the bumper on
it.

The driver that hit me doing about 60 walked away unscathed, due to the
crush zones in both vehicles and his air bags.  I just got a serious
kick in the ribs and some glass in my arm.  I'm quite happy.

Peter


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Re: [MBZ] Volvo- Steering Columns

[R A Bennell]

My 68 Chevy has a steering shaft close to 4 feet long and about 3/4 of an inch 
in diameter. I wouldn't really want
it to come poking through the steering wheel and into me. I have to admit that 
is one reason why I have considered
selling it. My wife and one of my sons is opposed as they think it is a classic.

Randy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Peter Frederick
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 4:57 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volvo


Ah, the good old days.  Makes you wonder why people insist on driving
pickup trucks, which until a few years ago were identical to what they
were in 1950 with the exception of a collapsable steering column.  I
remember the days when a front collision usually resulted in the death
of the driver due to chest injuries from the steering wheel and column
impaling them.

Benz, naturally, had padded and them collapsable steering columns long
before they were required in the US, and has always put the steering
box way back behind the axle, unlike GM who used to hand the bumper on
it.

The driver that hit me doing about 60 walked away unscathed, due to the
crush zones in both vehicles and his air bags.  I just got a serious
kick in the ribs and some glass in my arm.  I'm quite happy.

Peter


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Re: [MBZ] Volvo

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Nov 20, 2007 2:57 PM, Peter Frederick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ah, the good old days.  Makes you wonder why people insist on driving
> pickup trucks, which until a few years ago were identical to what they
> were in 1950 with the exception of a collapsable steering column.  I
> remember the days when a front collision usually resulted in the death
> of the driver due to chest injuries from the steering wheel and column
> impaling them.

Don't forget the genius who put the gas tank inside the cabin so that
the driver and passenger could more easily be incinerated.

Alex Chamberlain
'87 300D Turbo et al.

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Re: [MBZ] Volvo

[Peter Frederick]

Ah, the good old days.  Makes you wonder why people insist on driving 
pickup trucks, which until a few years ago were identical to what they 
were in 1950 with the exception of a collapsable steering column.  I 
remember the days when a front collision usually resulted in the death 
of the driver due to chest injuries from the steering wheel and column 
impaling them.

Benz, naturally, had padded and them collapsable steering columns long 
before they were required in the US, and has always put the steering 
box way back behind the axle, unlike GM who used to hand the bumper on 
it.

The driver that hit me doing about 60 walked away unscathed, due to the 
crush zones in both vehicles and his air bags.  I just got a serious 
kick in the ribs and some glass in my arm.  I'm quite happy.

Peter


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