Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-09 Thread John Sessoms

From: Bob Sullivan

Mickey D's introduced free WiFi in the USA in mid January.
I look forward to trying it the next time I travel.   :-) 
What's absurd here is that every motel on the interstate will have free WiFi,

but the expensive hotels in downtown Boston or Chicago will charge for it.
Regards,  Bob S.


It hasn't reached EVERY McDonalds in the USA yet. I found one in Georgia 
 last Sunday night along I-95 that didn't have it yet. One of those 
combination gas station-mini mart-McDonalds.


I stayed in an Embassy Suites in Greensboro, NC Friday and Saturday that 
charges for WiFi in the rooms.


That pissed me off, but I would have tolerated it without squawking but 
they only had instant coffee with breakfast - one of those soda fountain 
type machines that makes the coffee by adding hot water to a syrup. 
Really stupid because I know they had the real deal back in the kitchens 
- we were having a convention there and they put out real coffee urns at 
the breaks.



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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-07 Thread Martin Trautmann

Am 07.02.2010 00:56, schrieb steve harley:

On 2010-02-06 17:24 , Martin Trautmann wrote:

Thanks, so the price now is up to $40 or even $90, saving $2 for the
former built-in option.


yeah i guess Apple sold too few to keep the product alive; i'd try eBay
for a better price


I'll have a look, but my current computers all still got the modem 
function. The next one won't - and I'm not sure whether any usb modem 
would be sufficient.


Dell models are much cheaper here, about the same size. Are there any 
experiences about USB 56k modems which did *not* work with Macs?


Thanks,
Martin

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-07 Thread Martin Trautmann

Am 07.02.2010 09:56, schrieb Martin Trautmann:


Dell models are much cheaper here, about the same size. Are there any
experiences about USB 56k modems which did *not* work with Macs?


Example of a cheap one: ebay #180458160070, 6.80 € (about $9) - should 
this work with any computer, including Mac?


- Martin

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-07 Thread paul stenquist

On Feb 7, 2010, at 2:33 AM, David Mann wrote:

 On Feb 7, 2010, at 9:07 AM, John Francis wrote:
 
 The last time I used one (on the previous machine) was at my mother's
 house, to get internet access (Virgin UK pay-as-you-go).  But for my last
 trip I used a USB cellular modem.
 
 We picked up one of those not long before Xmas as one of the big telcos was 
 running a tempting promotion with a prepay service.
 
 I think we've been given more in compensation than we've spent using it.  
 Their brand new network has experienced several major egg-on-the-face outages.
 
 But now when we travel I can connect without hunting for free wifi signals or 
 paying extortionate rates to use private or hotel networks.  We really are 
 privileged in this city to have free wireless in the public libraries.
 
I think most libraries in the U.S. have free wireless, as do most hotels. It's 
becoming less of a problem all the time. Before the recession hit, there was a 
plan afoot to provide free global wireless for all the suburbs in Oakland 
County, Michigan. But they ran into some technical glitches, and then the 
economy came crashing down.
Paul


 Dave
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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-07 Thread Bob Sullivan
Mickey D's introduced free WiFi in the USA in mid January.
I look forward to trying it the next time I travel.  :-)
What's absurd here is that every motel on the interstate will have free WiFi,
but the expensive hotels in downtown Boston or Chicago will charge for it.
Regards,  Bob S.

On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 1:33 AM, David Mann dm...@bluemoon.net.nz wrote:
 On Feb 7, 2010, at 9:07 AM, John Francis wrote:

 The last time I used one (on the previous machine) was at my mother's
 house, to get internet access (Virgin UK pay-as-you-go).  But for my last
 trip I used a USB cellular modem.

 We picked up one of those not long before Xmas as one of the big telcos was 
 running a tempting promotion with a prepay service.

 I think we've been given more in compensation than we've spent using it.  
 Their brand new network has experienced several major egg-on-the-face outages.

 But now when we travel I can connect without hunting for free wifi signals or 
 paying extortionate rates to use private or hotel networks.  We really are 
 privileged in this city to have free wireless in the public libraries.

 Dave
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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-07 Thread Adam Maas
On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 8:10 PM, John Francis jo...@panix.com wrote:
 On Sat, Feb 06, 2010 at 06:52:03PM -0500, Adam Maas wrote:
 On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 3:47 PM, AlunFoto alunf...@gmail.com wrote:
  2010/2/6 Stan Halpin s...@stans-photography.info:
  Among other Apple laptops I have performed surgery on, I have swapped out
  the hard drive on a white iMac G3. Talk about an integrated system not
  designed for user upgrade! But iFixIt is a godsend, and the procedure can 
  be
  done even by a semi-klutz like me. The most nervous I have ever been doing
  such upgrades was in upgrading my Mac+ from 1 to 4mb of RAM. The upgrade
  required cutting two wires that served as jumpers on the circuit board, 
  and I
  rechecked the directions 10-15 times before I made the cuts!
 
  stan
 
  Hardly a consolation, I guess, but I don't think other PC makers are
  much better than Apple in this respect... We bought a series of about
  100 Fujitsu-Siemens desktop computers at work one year, which need
  about 30 minutes of effort each, just to upgrade the RAM... :-(
 
  Jostein
 

 Both HP and IBM/Lenovo are. Drop a panel, pull the drive/RAM, swap in
 the replacements. IBM's Thinkpads have had the same basic easy HDD
 swap design since the early 90's.

 Of course, both are major corporate suppliers. That seems to be an
 indicator for ease of servicability in my experience.

 -Adam

 In all fairness, too, the original complaint was about older desktop
 computers, where you often had to remove half a dozen screws just to
 take off the outer shell (although HP got that down to a couple of
 hand-operable turnscrews fairly on in the process).

 My HP notebooks generally require maybe one screw to remove either
 the access panel or the drive assembly, so replacing or upgrading
 the RAM, hard drive(s) or optical drive is a simple end-user task.


Missed the desktop bit, but IBM desktops have been easy-access since
the early 80's, HP's weren't bad either (at worst it was 3 screws) and
are super-easy now. I actually found the worst ones were the Apple
G3/G4's, while they were easy to open, you needed a whole bunch of
desk space to do so, rather than just popping the case off and working
inside the machine. If you had the space, the Apple's were nice to
work on though, especially the 8600/Beige G3 with the fold-out drive
array. Great in the shop, not so good onsite.

-- 
M. Adam Maas
http://www.mawz.ca
Explorations of the City Around Us.

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-07 Thread steve harley

On 2010-02-07 01:59 , Martin Trautmann wrote:

Am 07.02.2010 09:56, schrieb Martin Trautmann:


Dell models are much cheaper here, about the same size. Are there any
experiences about USB 56k modems which did *not* work with Macs?


Example of a cheap one: ebay #180458160070, 6.80 € (about $9) - should
this work with any computer, including Mac?


i believe that other than the Apple version you'd have to find and 
install a driver; no Mac driver listed for that one, and not brand 
listed to help in looking it up ...


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Re: Laptop computers with good displays? - correction

2010-02-06 Thread AlunFoto
2010/2/6 Martin Trautmann tr...@gmx.de:

 Thanks for the corection. But the iPad will have IPS...

Source or bust.

Jostein


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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-06 Thread steve harley

On 2010-02-05 10:33 , Martin Trautmann wrote:

eSATA?


for that you need the 17 MacBook Pro, or an older 15, there are 
ExpressCards that do eSATA seamlessless (no drivers)



fax modem?


should you really need such a thing, Apple sells an external modem the 
size of a pack of gum for $30; a while back i got one in a bag of stuff 
at a yard sale for $2 and got it for the sense of readiness it gives me 
(smile), though i have not used a modem for 5 years or so (sent one fax 
maybe three years ago, but used an online service)



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Re: Laptop computers with good displays? - correction

2010-02-06 Thread Martin Trautmann

Am 06.02.2010 14:06, schrieb AlunFoto:

2010/2/6 Martin Trautmanntr...@gmx.de:


Thanks for the corection. But the iPad will have IPS...


Source or bust.


Watch the keynote.

Or more easily:
http://www.apple.com/ipad/specs/

Display

* 9.7-inch (diagonal) LED-backlit glossy widescreen Multi-Touch 
display with *IPS* technology

* 1024-by-768-pixel resolution at 132 pixels per inch (ppi)
* Fingerprint-resistant oleophobic coating
* Support for display of multiple languages and characters 
simultaneously


- Martin

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-06 Thread Godfrey DiGiorgi
Sorry Paul, but I've changed hard drives and RAM (as have many of my
non-computer-industry friends) on those exact models. I've changed
them on ALL of the laptops I've had, both my own and many pre-prod
units.

Apple puts its own label on the drives they use as OEM and you might
not find the part number for that OEM unit in a Hitachi or Western
Digital list, but that doesn't mean the drive units are not industry
standard equipment. I've changed out the drives in virtually ALL my
systems (for larger ones) as it has always been less expensive to get
a lot of disk space that way.

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 9:58 PM, steve harley p...@paper-ape.com wrote:
 On 2010-02-05 10:15 , Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

 I was deeply involved with Apple as an external developer from 1984 on
 and then worked for Apple from 1991, shortly after the first PowerBook
 introduction, to 2004. I sat in laptop development teams representing
 Developer Relations during the first decade of my involvement there.
 RAM and hard drives have *always* been user upgradeable, on all of
 them, although some have been easier to do the upgrade than others.

 i didn't work at Apple, but i have direct experience replacing hard drives
 with several of these models, and a lot of knowledge of Apple policies and
 hardware ... for laptop hard drives, what you say is only generally true for
 certain uncommon definitions of user upgradeable

 all of the g4 PowerBooks and the MacBooks Pro until the Unibody have had a
 deeply buried hard drive -- the vast majority of users would not feel
 comfortable with, and might well bungle, the replacement task;  but yes, if
 it were accomplished carefully, it would not void the warranty, so that
 meets one definition of user replaceable

 in contrast, Apple has officially sanctioned the hard drive as user
 replaceable in the current Unibody units; the instructions are in the user
 guide (whereas for previous G4 and later laptops no public Apple
 instructions are available for hard drive replacements); if you have good
 touch with a fine Phillips screwdriver, you can replace the hard drive in a
 Unibodoy MacBook Pro in less than five minutes, though it still takes some
 care; it's at least 20 and more like an hour the first time with the older
 models

 comparison - three steps (numbers 5, 6, and 8 here) are all you need for the
 Unibody models:

 http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook-Pro-17-Inch-Unibody-Teardown/618/1#top

 versus the 15 steps here:

 http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Repair/Installing-MacBook-Pro-15-Inch-Core-2-Duo-Model-A1211-Hard-Drive-Replacement/459


 They've always used industry standard components for these items too.

 yes and no; the hard drives always (still) have a custom label with an Apple
 logo on them, and the model number often doesn't exactly match what is
 commercially available, though the actual differences from standard
 components are miniscule because, of course, Apple does not make hard
 drives


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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-06 Thread P N Stenquist


On Feb 6, 2010, at 9:39 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:


Sorry Paul,


You mean, Sorry Steve:-)


but I've changed hard drives and RAM (as have many of my
non-computer-industry friends) on those exact models. I've changed
them on ALL of the laptops I've had, both my own and many pre-prod
units.

Apple puts its own label on the drives they use as OEM and you might
not find the part number for that OEM unit in a Hitachi or Western
Digital list, but that doesn't mean the drive units are not industry
standard equipment. I've changed out the drives in virtually ALL my
systems (for larger ones) as it has always been less expensive to get
a lot of disk space that way.


I've changed drives in most of my Macs as well. It was more difficult  
on the powerbook G3, but not terribly so. The G4 chrome  desktop was a  
bit tricky as well, and  you helped me find instructions for thatt.  
But most of the time, it's been quite simple.

Paul



On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 9:58 PM, steve harley p...@paper-ape.com  
wrote:

On 2010-02-05 10:15 , Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:


I was deeply involved with Apple as an external developer from  
1984 on
and then worked for Apple from 1991, shortly after the first  
PowerBook
introduction, to 2004. I sat in laptop development teams  
representing

Developer Relations during the first decade of my involvement there.
RAM and hard drives have *always* been user upgradeable, on all of
them, although some have been easier to do the upgrade than others.


i didn't work at Apple, but i have direct experience replacing hard  
drives
with several of these models, and a lot of knowledge of Apple  
policies and
hardware ... for laptop hard drives, what you say is only generally  
true for

certain uncommon definitions of user upgradeable

all of the g4 PowerBooks and the MacBooks Pro until the Unibody  
have had a

deeply buried hard drive -- the vast majority of users would not feel
comfortable with, and might well bungle, the replacement task;  but  
yes, if
it were accomplished carefully, it would not void the warranty, so  
that

meets one definition of user replaceable

in contrast, Apple has officially sanctioned the hard drive as user
replaceable in the current Unibody units; the instructions are in  
the user

guide (whereas for previous G4 and later laptops no public Apple
instructions are available for hard drive replacements); if you  
have good
touch with a fine Phillips screwdriver, you can replace the hard  
drive in a
Unibodoy MacBook Pro in less than five minutes, though it still  
takes some
care; it's at least 20 and more like an hour the first time with  
the older

models

comparison - three steps (numbers 5, 6, and 8 here) are all you  
need for the

Unibody models:

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook-Pro-17-Inch-Unibody-Teardown/618/1#top 



versus the 15 steps here:

http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Repair/Installing-MacBook-Pro-15-Inch-Core-2-Duo-Model-A1211-Hard-Drive-Replacement/459 




They've always used industry standard components for these items  
too.


yes and no; the hard drives always (still) have a custom label with  
an Apple
logo on them, and the model number often doesn't exactly match what  
is

commercially available, though the actual differences from standard
components are miniscule because, of course, Apple does not make  
hard

drives


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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-06 Thread steve harley

On 2010-02-06 09:39 , Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

Sorry Paul, but I've changed hard drives and RAM (as have many of my
non-computer-industry friends) on those exact models. I've changed
them on ALL of the laptops I've had, both my own and many pre-prod
units.


Godfrey, i am not Paul, but i too have also changed an awful lot of hard 
drives and other parts in Macs, starting with the Mac II (the eMac was 
the worst, iirc); there are currently four different models of Apple 
laptops in my household and i've upgraded the hard drives and RAM in all 
of them, as well as a few that have flown the coop, and i've helped 
quite a few others through similar tasks; i am speaking carefully and 
from experience


note the part where i wrote for certain definitions -- my distinction, 
as i may not have explained well, is that while yes of course the user 
_can_ replace the drives, and some of us feel comfortable with it, this 
is not a design feature of most recent (pre-Unibody) Apple laptop 
models; most users would not feel comfortable with the task, and perhaps 
most importantly, Apple does not sanction users replacing those hard 
drives; with the Unibody models, the policy and the design took a U-turn 
for the better ...


beyond my direct appreciation of how it is to do that work (also 
visually explained via the links i shared), i also have some experience 
with Apple Support on the subject -- i got a 13 MacBook Pro last July 
and the hard drive soon failed; in order to test it and recover what 
data i could, i removed it and put it in an external enclosure; when i 
called Apple for warranty service, and explained that i'd removed the 
drive as part of confirming it had failed, the rep immediately denied my 
claim; i had to escalate and point out the passage in the user manual 
for that model which explicitly describes to the user how to replace the 
hard drive; my claim was then accepted with an explanation that the 
initial rep was applying the policy for older models



Apple puts its own label on the drives they use as OEM and you might
not find the part number for that OEM unit in a Hitachi or Western
Digital list, but that doesn't mean the drive units are not industry
standard equipment. I've changed out the drives in virtually ALL my
systems (for larger ones) as it has always been less expensive to get
a lot of disk space that way.


again this boils down to a definition -- if the exact unit is not 
available for general purchase, but is very similar to available models 
(differs in model number, and might or might not differ in details like 
cache size or ROM), then is it industry standard? it is not literally 
off-the-shelf, but since the part works like and can be replaced by 
off-the-shelf items, yes, it is industry standard by some ways of 
thinking; to articulate this point, there was a time when one couldn't 
use Apple hard disk formatting tools with drives that didn't have an 
Apple ROM; to use non-Apple drives, one had to use a third-party 
formatter as well (not a huge obstacle, since these were readily 
available); this post-dates the Mac II by at least a bit, evidence here:


http://macfaq.org/hardware/harddisk.shtml#Q2.2.2

similarly, with RAM, if you send a Mac in to Apple for service, and 
you've replaced Apple's RAM with some other brand, Apple might or might 
not remove the RAM and send it back to you in a baggie with an ambiguous 
note about how unsupported components weren't tested; i've avoided that 
experience myself, but have seen many others describe it; that doesn't 
mean that non-Apple RAM won't work, or that Apple RAM is non-standard, 
but it does by way of policy make Apple's modules a different part than 
what you can buy elsewhere



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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-06 Thread steve harley

On 2010-02-06 09:49 , P N Stenquist wrote:

I've changed drives in most of my Macs as well. It was more difficult on
the powerbook G3, but not terribly so.


the G3 (at least the Pismo version) was hands-down the easiest Apple 
laptop to change a hard drive in; i've done a WallStreet too, and i 
think it was a little harder; the current Unibody models are almost as 
simple, but instead of popping a couple of tabs and lifting the keyboard 
you have to remove and keep track of ten tiny screws and remove the back 
of the case, then remove two more screws


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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-06 Thread steve harley

On 2010-02-05 03:50 , AlunFoto wrote:

2010/2/4 Jim Kingjamesk8...@mac.com:

Mark (and Jostein), things HAVE changed in the MacBook Pro lineup.  All of
the current offerings use an IPS screen with LED backlighting.


Link to documentation of IPS?


try wikipedia -- it's this cool site that explains things ;?


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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-06 Thread steve harley

On 2010-02-05 10:22 , Martin Trautmann wrote:


Some typical MBP displays are e.g.
* B133EW07 V1 (AUO)
* LTN133AT09


bingo ^^

(MacBook Pro 13 2.53 GHz, originally sold in June 2009)


* LP154WP3-TLA1
* B154PW01 V0


Within MBP 13 there are dedicated color profiles:
9C8C (?)
9C9E (Samsung)
9C9F (LG-Philips)
9CA0 (Chi Mei)
9CA1 (?)
9CBD (LG-Philips)


none of these appear on mine (perhaps because i've applied a custom profile)

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-06 Thread Stan Halpin
Among other Apple laptops I have performed surgery on, I have swapped out the 
hard drive on a white iMac G3. Talk about an integrated system not designed for 
user upgrade! But iFixIt is a godsend, and the procedure can be done even by a 
semi-klutz like me. The most nervous I have ever been doing such upgrades was 
in upgrading my Mac+ from 1 to 4mb of RAM. The upgrade required cutting two 
wires that served as jumpers on the circuit board, and I rechecked the 
directions 10-15 times before I made the cuts!

stan

On Feb 6, 2010, at 12:39 PM, steve harley wrote:

 On 2010-02-06 09:49 , P N Stenquist wrote:
 I've changed drives in most of my Macs as well. It was more difficult on
 the powerbook G3, but not terribly so.
 
 the G3 (at least the Pismo version) was hands-down the easiest Apple laptop 
 to change a hard drive in; i've done a WallStreet too, and i think it was a 
 little harder; the current Unibody models are almost as simple, but instead 
 of popping a couple of tabs and lifting the keyboard you have to remove and 
 keep track of ten tiny screws and remove the back of the case, then remove 
 two more screws
 
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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-06 Thread Martin Trautmann

Am 06.02.2010 14:07, schrieb steve harley:

On 2010-02-05 10:33 , Martin Trautmann wrote:

eSATA?


for that you need the 17 MacBook Pro, or an older 15, there are
ExpressCards that do eSATA seamlessless (no drivers)


And if you don't want the 17 you are lost.


fax modem?


should you really need such a thing, Apple sells an external modem the
size of a pack of gum for $30;


Which one, where? AFAIK all are gone from the store.

 a while back i got one in a bag of stuff

at a yard sale for $2 and got it for the sense of readiness it gives me
(smile), though i have not used a modem for 5 years or so (sent one fax
maybe three years ago, but used an online service)


I needed one some weeks ago within vacation, no DSL, no WLAN, but just a 
phone line. And fax is still very common for many people.


- Martin

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-06 Thread John Francis
On Sat, Feb 06, 2010 at 08:34:53PM +0100, Martin Trautmann wrote:

 fax modem?

 should you really need such a thing, Apple sells an external modem the
 size of a pack of gum for $30;

 Which one, where? AFAIK all are gone from the store.

  a while back i got one in a bag of stuff
 at a yard sale for $2 and got it for the sense of readiness it gives me
 (smile), though i have not used a modem for 5 years or so (sent one fax
 maybe three years ago, but used an online service)

 I needed one some weeks ago within vacation, no DSL, no WLAN, but just a  
 phone line. And fax is still very common for many people.

I do still have a modem on my work notebook, but I doubt if I'll ever use
it.  The last time I used one (on the previous machine) was at my mother's
house, to get internet access (Virgin UK pay-as-you-go).  But for my last
trip I used a USB cellular modem.  This meant I couldn't use it at the
house - my mother lived in one of the few cellular dead spots left within
20 miles of London - but I could sit in the pub and get online. A couple
of the local pubs even had wireless access points!

Our recently-purchased home machine doesn't even have the modem. It would
only have added $10 to the cost, but we just didn't see the point.

Neither machine, though, has a floppy drive :-)


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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-06 Thread AlunFoto
2010/2/6 steve harley p...@paper-ape.com:
 On 2010-02-05 03:50 , AlunFoto wrote:

 2010/2/4 Jim Kingjamesk8...@mac.com:

 Mark (and Jostein), things HAVE changed in the MacBook Pro lineup.  All
 of
 the current offerings use an IPS screen with LED backlighting.

 Link to documentation of IPS?

 try wikipedia -- it's this cool site that explains things ;?

Cheeky.

Jim King got it right though. See his post. :-)

Jostein
Who's currently enjoying some S-IPS of nice cognac. or whatever... :-)

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-06 Thread AlunFoto
2010/2/6 Stan Halpin s...@stans-photography.info:
 Among other Apple laptops I have performed surgery on, I have swapped out
 the hard drive on a white iMac G3. Talk about an integrated system not
 designed for user upgrade! But iFixIt is a godsend, and the procedure can be
 done even by a semi-klutz like me. The most nervous I have ever been doing
 such upgrades was in upgrading my Mac+ from 1 to 4mb of RAM. The upgrade
 required cutting two wires that served as jumpers on the circuit board, and I
 rechecked the directions 10-15 times before I made the cuts!

 stan

Hardly a consolation, I guess, but I don't think other PC makers are
much better than Apple in this respect... We bought a series of about
100 Fujitsu-Siemens desktop computers at work one year, which need
about 30 minutes of effort each, just to upgrade the RAM... :-(

Jostein


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Re: Laptop computers with good displays? - correction

2010-02-06 Thread AlunFoto
Thanks Martin! Much appreciated.
Jostein

2010/2/6 Martin Trautmann tr...@gmx.de:
 Am 06.02.2010 14:06, schrieb AlunFoto:

 2010/2/6 Martin Trautmanntr...@gmx.de:

 Thanks for the corection. But the iPad will have IPS...

 Source or bust.

 Watch the keynote.

 Or more easily:
 http://www.apple.com/ipad/specs/

 Display

    * 9.7-inch (diagonal) LED-backlit glossy widescreen Multi-Touch display
 with *IPS* technology
    * 1024-by-768-pixel resolution at 132 pixels per inch (ppi)
    * Fingerprint-resistant oleophobic coating
    * Support for display of multiple languages and characters simultaneously

 - Martin

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-06 Thread Charles Robinson
On Feb 6, 2010, at 13:34, Martin Trautmann wrote:
 
 fax modem?
 
 should you really need such a thing, Apple sells an external modem the
 size of a pack of gum for $30;
 
 Which one, where? AFAIK all are gone from the store.
 

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?complete=0hl=ensource=hpq=apple+usb+modemum=1ie=UTF-8cid=9832728713848179501ei=f91tS8uGF5O4M4K72dgEsa=Xoi=product_catalog_resultct=resultresnum=3ved=0CBYQ8wIwAg#ps-sellers

 -Charles

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-06 Thread Ralf R. Radermacher
Rick Womer rwomer1...@yahoo.com wrote:

 I had an HP/Compaq 8230 that had a wonderful display.  

Just got a second-hand HP 8440, mainly for audio, and I'm quite happy
with its 15,4 inch display. Guess it's just another TFT but the quality
is really decent, especially after calibrating it with my Spyder 3.

Ralf

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-06 Thread Martin Trautmann

Am 06.02.2010 22:23, schrieb Charles Robinson:

On Feb 6, 2010, at 13:34, Martin Trautmann wrote:



fax modem?


should you really need such a thing, Apple sells an external modem the
size of a pack of gum for $30;


Which one, where? AFAIK all are gone from the store.



http://www.google.com/products/catalog?complete=0hl=ensource=hpq=apple+usb+modemum=1ie=UTF-8cid=9832728713848179501ei=f91tS8uGF5O4M4K72dgEsa=Xoi=product_catalog_resultct=resultresnum=3ved=0CBYQ8wIwAg#ps-sellers



Thanks, so the price now is up to $40 or even $90, saving $2 for the 
former built-in option.


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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-06 Thread Adam Maas
On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 3:47 PM, AlunFoto alunf...@gmail.com wrote:
 2010/2/6 Stan Halpin s...@stans-photography.info:
 Among other Apple laptops I have performed surgery on, I have swapped out
 the hard drive on a white iMac G3. Talk about an integrated system not
 designed for user upgrade! But iFixIt is a godsend, and the procedure can be
 done even by a semi-klutz like me. The most nervous I have ever been doing
 such upgrades was in upgrading my Mac+ from 1 to 4mb of RAM. The upgrade
 required cutting two wires that served as jumpers on the circuit board, and I
 rechecked the directions 10-15 times before I made the cuts!

 stan

 Hardly a consolation, I guess, but I don't think other PC makers are
 much better than Apple in this respect... We bought a series of about
 100 Fujitsu-Siemens desktop computers at work one year, which need
 about 30 minutes of effort each, just to upgrade the RAM... :-(

 Jostein


Both HP and IBM/Lenovo are. Drop a panel, pull the drive/RAM, swap in
the replacements. IBM's Thinkpads have had the same basic easy HDD
swap design since the early 90's.

Of course, both are major corporate suppliers. That seems to be an
indicator for ease of servicability in my experience.

-Adam

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-06 Thread steve harley

On 2010-02-06 17:24 , Martin Trautmann wrote:

Thanks, so the price now is up to $40 or even $90, saving $2 for the
former built-in option.


yeah i guess Apple sold too few to keep the product alive; i'd try eBay 
for a better price



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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-06 Thread John Francis
On Sat, Feb 06, 2010 at 06:52:03PM -0500, Adam Maas wrote:
 On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 3:47 PM, AlunFoto alunf...@gmail.com wrote:
  2010/2/6 Stan Halpin s...@stans-photography.info:
  Among other Apple laptops I have performed surgery on, I have swapped out
  the hard drive on a white iMac G3. Talk about an integrated system not
  designed for user upgrade! But iFixIt is a godsend, and the procedure can 
  be
  done even by a semi-klutz like me. The most nervous I have ever been doing
  such upgrades was in upgrading my Mac+ from 1 to 4mb of RAM. The upgrade
  required cutting two wires that served as jumpers on the circuit board, 
  and I
  rechecked the directions 10-15 times before I made the cuts!
 
  stan
 
  Hardly a consolation, I guess, but I don't think other PC makers are
  much better than Apple in this respect... We bought a series of about
  100 Fujitsu-Siemens desktop computers at work one year, which need
  about 30 minutes of effort each, just to upgrade the RAM... :-(
 
  Jostein
 
 
 Both HP and IBM/Lenovo are. Drop a panel, pull the drive/RAM, swap in
 the replacements. IBM's Thinkpads have had the same basic easy HDD
 swap design since the early 90's.
 
 Of course, both are major corporate suppliers. That seems to be an
 indicator for ease of servicability in my experience.
 
 -Adam

In all fairness, too, the original complaint was about older desktop
computers, where you often had to remove half a dozen screws just to
take off the outer shell (although HP got that down to a couple of
hand-operable turnscrews fairly on in the process).

My HP notebooks generally require maybe one screw to remove either
the access panel or the drive assembly, so replacing or upgrading
the RAM, hard drive(s) or optical drive is a simple end-user task.


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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-06 Thread David Mann
On Feb 7, 2010, at 9:07 AM, John Francis wrote:

 The last time I used one (on the previous machine) was at my mother's
 house, to get internet access (Virgin UK pay-as-you-go).  But for my last
 trip I used a USB cellular modem.

We picked up one of those not long before Xmas as one of the big telcos was 
running a tempting promotion with a prepay service.

I think we've been given more in compensation than we've spent using it.  Their 
brand new network has experienced several major egg-on-the-face outages.

But now when we travel I can connect without hunting for free wifi signals or 
paying extortionate rates to use private or hotel networks.  We really are 
privileged in this city to have free wireless in the public libraries.

Dave
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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread AlunFoto
2010/2/4 Jim King jamesk8...@mac.com:
 Mark (and Jostein), things HAVE changed in the MacBook Pro lineup.  All of
 the current offerings use an IPS screen with LED backlighting.

Link to documentation of IPS?
Please?

Would love to know where Apple source those panels.

Jostein

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread AlunFoto
2010/2/5 steve harley p...@paper-ape.com:
 current Mac laptops reportedly have TN displays (if someone has a reference
 to confirm they are IPS i'd like to know), but Apple claims 60% wider
 gamut and implies all models have the same display quality; i can report
 real satisfaction with casual use of my 13 MacBook Pro display, but i plug
 it into an older 24 IPS display when i edit photos

IIRC, Aplle is accused of faking the 60% claim by doing some clever
colour mapping in software. Dunno the substance in those claims,
unfortunately, but I guess such speculation arises because the sales
pitch lingo is not backed by any easily accessible tech spec.

Jostein

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread AlunFoto
2010/2/5 Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com:
 Sort of along the same vein, and a definite jab, for which I apologize,
 something I just wrote somewhere else on the net:
 If someone was standing in front of you, trying to slap your face
 repeatedly, hour after hour, day after day, year after year, would you just
 stand there?
 Yet you currently pay someone to stand between you and the deranged persons
 attacking you.
 Just one of the ways you would save money in the long run by getting a
 Macintosh! No one slapping, no one to pay to protect your face. Life is so
 much more pleasant.
 Why is it that Microsoft has been unable to write an OS for more than 20
 years that has more fortitude than Windows does? I'll never understand it.

 Crazy love is what you got.

Another definite jab which I too should apologise for:

What a narrow-minded piece of drivel.



Can we now go on?

thanks,
Jostein

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays? - correction

2010-02-05 Thread AlunFoto
2010/2/5 Jim King jamesk8...@mac.com:

 Sorry, but I need to correct myself - evidently I was thinking of the latest
 iMac displays, which are said to be IPS.  I can't find any credible source
 to support my statement above that the MacBook Pro displays use IPS.  They
 do use LED backlighting, however, and they are gorgeous, IMO.

Bugger. You had my hopes high there for a while.

LEDs are a Good Thing, though, no matter what panel is stacked before it.

Jostein

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread AlunFoto
LG ( == Philips) is one of the major panel manufacturers. I just had a
look into their catalogue, and in their current lineup there's only
_one_ panel with 8 bit colour depth. A 17,1 widescreen. The panel
technology is not specified, but the backlight is described as RGB
LED where all the others are white LED.
It has about 34% higher power consumption than the other 17,1 alternatives.
Here's the webpage:
http://www.lgdisplay.com/homeContain/jsp/eng/prd/prd300_j_e.jsp
The panel model number is LP171WU5. It's not listed on the webpage,
only in the PDF downloadable from the webpage.

It's terribly difficult to figure out which panels are actually inside
any particular laptop unless the maker states it as part of the specs.
Which nearly noone does. :-(

Jostein

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread Mark Roberts
Tanya Love wrote:

Really?  Well that shows how limited my Mac knowledge is, I always thought
that you had to keep whatever you got with it!  I didn't even know that you
could upgrade the RAM and hard drive!  

Oh yes, you can do all that stuff now. 

The requirement that you get an Apple tattoo on your butt, however,
has not changed. (Not that I expect that to deter *you*)

;-)


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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread Mark Roberts
AlunFoto wrote:

It's terribly difficult to figure out which panels are actually inside
any particular laptop unless the maker states it as part of the specs.
Which nearly noone does. :-(

That's what frustrated me into starting this thread.

Most of Apple's desktop displays are LG/Philips, with Samsung making
an occasional appearance. But I can't find out what kind of display is
in anyone's laptop computer.

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread AlunFoto
2010/2/5 Mark Roberts m...@robertstech.com:
 Most of Apple's desktop displays are LG/Philips, with Samsung making
 an occasional appearance. But I can't find out what kind of display is
 in anyone's laptop computer.

Apparently, some of the more obsessed laptop geeks have a habit of
picking their machines apart to find model numbers printed on the
display assembly. That's how Dell was caught sourcing different
displays in some laptop models at different production runs.

It was that story that made me browse for the display manufacturers
directly. I know I checked LG/Philips, Samsung, Sharp, Acer and Sony.
I also checked a few Taiwanese and Korean factories whose names I
can't recall. I sort of gave up when I couldn't find _any_ 14-15
screens specifying either IPS/*VA panel technology or at least 8 bit
colour depth. To my knowledge, the 17 panel I mentioned in another
post is actually the only one with documented 8 bit colour depth. I
spent my lunch break today trying to find laptops carrying this
display, and the only one I found was HP's 8730w with DreamColor
display option (at a horrible price...).

Jostein

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread Mark Roberts
AlunFoto wrote:

2010/2/5 Mark Roberts m...@robertstech.com:
 Most of Apple's desktop displays are LG/Philips, with Samsung making
 an occasional appearance. But I can't find out what kind of display is
 in anyone's laptop computer.

Apparently, some of the more obsessed laptop geeks have a habit of
picking their machines apart to find model numbers printed on the
display assembly. That's how Dell was caught sourcing different
displays in some laptop models at different production runs.

The Apple iMac 20 was sold with both a Philips/LG TN panel and a
Samsung S-PVA - *big* difference in quality between a TN and an S-PVA!


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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread AlunFoto
2010/2/5 Mark Roberts m...@robertstech.com:
 The Apple iMac 20 was sold with both a Philips/LG TN panel and a
 Samsung S-PVA - *big* difference in quality between a TN and an S-PVA!

If that's without informing the customer, it's pretty arrogant... :-(

Jostein

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread Rob Studdert
On 06/02/2010, AlunFoto alunf...@gmail.com wrote:
 2010/2/5 Mark Roberts m...@robertstech.com:
  The Apple iMac 20 was sold with both a Philips/LG TN panel and a
  Samsung S-PVA - *big* difference in quality between a TN and an S-PVA!

 If that's without informing the customer, it's pretty arrogant... :-(

Regardless I bet customers owning either thought the sun shone out of
their screens!

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread Martin Trautmann

Am 05.02.2010 14:33, schrieb AlunFoto:


Apparently, some of the more obsessed laptop geeks have a habit of
picking their machines apart to find model numbers printed on the
display assembly. That's how Dell was caught sourcing different
displays in some laptop models at different production runs.


You may obtain this info easily for the Mac. Just open the terminal and 
enter:


ioreg -lw0 | grep IODisplayEDID | sed /[^]*/s/// | xxd -p -r | 
strings -6


What's your computer and what does ioreg name?

- Martin

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread Godfrey DiGiorgi
On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 9:41 PM, Tanya Love tanyal...@bigpond.com wrote:
 Really?  Well that shows how limited my Mac knowledge is, I always thought
 that you had to keep whatever you got with it!  I didn't even know that you
 could upgrade the RAM and hard drive!

 Me thinks I need to do lots more research!

I was deeply involved with Apple as an external developer from 1984 on
and then worked for Apple from 1991, shortly after the first PowerBook
introduction, to 2004. I sat in laptop development teams representing
Developer Relations during the first decade of my involvement there.
RAM and hard drives have *always* been user upgradeable, on all of
them, although some have been easier to do the upgrade than others.
They've always used industry standard components for these items too.

The same has been true for nearly all of the desktop systems since the
first Macintosh II in 1987.

The myth of non-upgradeability has to do with cpu and logic board
upgrades. Apple had a couple of upgrade programs for these components
during the '80s and '90s, but they turned out to not be cost effective
for the customers (or for Apple). Their computing systems are designed
with most everything people normally want to add as included, and the
highly integrated design (from board design to case to components to
operating system) means that when you want to upgrade something, you
have to upgrade most everything.

With other manufacturers' computing systems which were basically
incomplete in their base configuration, upgradeability usually means
'adding the bits that you didn't get when you bought it'. Cpu and
logic board upgrades usually mean basically replacing the entire
component (logic board, cpu, clock, graphics card, drive adapter, etc)
in what is a not-too-tightly-integrated box of bits, and then hoping
that it all works and that you can find drivers that run it. They keep
the boxes simple and basic because they don't put any time or money
into integration, which lets them sell them cheap. They don't develop
their own operating system or offer a suits of integrated software
products either.

Each approach has its plusses and minuses.

Apple is the largest volume single computer vendor in the world,
though, in the market space of personal computers, the largest single
vendor of mobile computing devices (laptops, phones, music players
together), and the only top to bottom integrated solution vendor in
this space. By current sales, they're a $50+ Billion dollar company
with massive profitability and growth, as well as $9-15 Billion in
cash in the bank. Most of the innovative new things that have become
de rigeur, a part of our everyday lives, across entire
computing/communications/electronic landscape of modern living have
either come directly out of Apple or were first adopted by Apple. To
say their approach is unsuccessful is an obviously ridiculous
assertion.

Yes, I use Apple systems, been using them (along with many others)
since 1983-4. They do what I need in a way I find satisfying and
productive, and get in the way less of the time, for me. Their warts
are warts I can live with more easily than the warts I find in other
systems. Nothing's perfect.

My goal is to do Photography, not to mess around with equipment.

Equipment often gets in the way of Photography.

Pick what gets in the way less of the time, for you, and accept what
it does and doesn't do. Then do Photography.

-- 
Godfrey
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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread Martin Trautmann

Am 05.02.2010 16:12, schrieb Martin Trautmann:

Am 05.02.2010 14:33, schrieb AlunFoto:


Apparently, some of the more obsessed laptop geeks have a habit of
picking their machines apart to find model numbers printed on the
display assembly. That's how Dell was caught sourcing different
displays in some laptop models at different production runs.


You may obtain this info easily for the Mac. Just open the terminal and
enter:

ioreg -lw0 | grep IODisplayEDID | sed /[^]*/s/// | xxd -p -r |
strings -6

What's your computer and what does ioreg name?


Some typical MBP displays are e.g.
* B133EW07 V1 (AUO)
* LTN133AT09
* LP154WP3-TLA1
* B154PW01 V0


Within MBP 13 there are dedicated color profiles:
9C8C (?)
9C9E (Samsung)
9C9F (LG-Philips)
9CA0 (Chi Mei)
9CA1 (?)
9CBD (LG-Philips)

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread Martin Trautmann

Am 05.02.2010 16:15, schrieb Godfrey DiGiorgi:


Yes, I use Apple systems, been using them (along with many others)
since 1983-4. They do what I need in a way I find satisfying and
productive, and get in the way less of the time, for me. Their warts
are warts I can live with more easily than the warts I find in other
systems. Nothing's perfect.


Unfortunately their's a major lack of alternatives, once you are 
addicted to OSX.


matte 13 screen?
firewire?
express card slot?
eSATA?
fax modem?

Once in a while Apple does react on furious feedback (returning the 
firewire port on some models), while you don't have any alternative as 
long as there's no matching MacBook around.


You may add some stuff via USB (or one of the many expensive display 
adapters), but you don't have any choice for other models, as long as 
you don't use hackintosh - and most of the times the OSX86 models lack 
some essential functions afterwards.


Waiting for a usable Mac-Pad or at least a reasonable MBP upgrade this 
month. My iBook fell back to the C-clamp serial error, which is not 
considered as a design flaw by apple, and does require resoldering about 
every 6 months.


- Martin

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread P N Stenquist
Interesting. Terminal says the display on my iMac 24 (previous  
generation to the current iMac) is

LM240WU2-SLB2
Color LCD

Don't know what that means, but I suspect it can be translated.

Paul
On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:22 AM, Martin Trautmann wrote:


Am 05.02.2010 16:12, schrieb Martin Trautmann:

Am 05.02.2010 14:33, schrieb AlunFoto:


Apparently, some of the more obsessed laptop geeks have a habit of
picking their machines apart to find model numbers printed on the
display assembly. That's how Dell was caught sourcing different
displays in some laptop models at different production runs.


You may obtain this info easily for the Mac. Just open the terminal  
and

enter:

ioreg -lw0 | grep IODisplayEDID | sed /[^]*/s/// | xxd -p -r |
strings -6

What's your computer and what does ioreg name?


Some typical MBP displays are e.g.
* B133EW07 V1 (AUO)
* LTN133AT09
* LP154WP3-TLA1
* B154PW01 V0


Within MBP 13 there are dedicated color profiles:
9C8C (?)
9C9E (Samsung)
9C9F (LG-Philips)
9CA0 (Chi Mei)
9CA1 (?)
9CBD (LG-Philips)

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread Godfrey DiGiorgi
On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 7:33 AM, Martin Trautmann tr...@gmx.de wrote:
 Unfortunately their's a major lack of alternatives, once you are addicted to
 OSX.

Being addicted to anything is a bad idea

 matte 13 screen?

Don't care. As stated prior, I see no point to worrying about a fancy
laptop screen, and particularly not a 13 teensy one.

 firewire?

There in the MacBook Pro 13

 express card slot?

don't care. Never used one, have no need for one. SDHC slot is there.

 eSATA?

don't care, don't own any eSATA devices. FW 800 is fine.

 fax modem?

Haven't used a laptop modem in 8 or 9 years. FAXes are received by a
service and transferred digitally, wirelessly as PDF files. My
outgoing faxes are sent through a service from JPEG or PDF originals.

 You may add some stuff via USB (or one of the many expensive display
 adapters)

$19 for the DVI video adapter cable for my desktop monitor. The MBP13
will drive an excellent 30 desktop monitor.  I don't call that
expensive.

As I said, it doesn't get in the way *for me.* If it gets in the way
*for you*, buy something else.

Don't be addicted to anything. Buy what works.

-- 
Godfrey
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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread AlunFoto
2010/2/5 Martin Trautmann tr...@gmx.de:
 You may obtain this info easily for the Mac. Just open the terminal and
 enter:

 ioreg -lw0 | grep IODisplayEDID | sed /[^]*/s/// | xxd -p -r | strings
 -6


ROTFLMAO.
easily, eh?

Jostein

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread AlunFoto
2010/2/5 Martin Trautmann tr...@gmx.de:
 Some typical MBP displays are e.g.
 * B133EW07 V1 (AUO)
 * LTN133AT09
 * LP154WP3-TLA1
 * B154PW01 V0

So tell us, Martin! Are they 6 bit TN panels or something decent?

Jostein


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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread Mark Roberts
AlunFoto wrote:

2010/2/5 Martin Trautmann tr...@gmx.de:
 You may obtain this info easily for the Mac. Just open the terminal and
 enter:

 ioreg -lw0 | grep IODisplayEDID | sed /[^]*/s/// | xxd -p -r | strings
 -6

ROTFLMAO.
easily, eh?

Yeah. That's a Quotes List candidate for sure!

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread AlunFoto
2010/2/5 AlunFoto alunf...@gmail.com:
 2010/2/5 Martin Trautmann tr...@gmx.de:
 You may obtain this info easily for the Mac. Just open the terminal and
 enter:

 ioreg -lw0 | grep IODisplayEDID | sed /[^]*/s/// | xxd -p -r | strings
 -6


 ROTFLMAO.
 easily, eh?

Duh. Hit send too early in my giggling.
I mean, it's a nice thing that it's actually possible to extract such
information, but easily in this context was very funny to me...

It would be great if someone with a 15 or 17 macbook pro would do
that magic on their boxes.

Jostein


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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread Martin Trautmann

Am 05.02.2010 19:09, schrieb AlunFoto:

2010/2/5 Martin Trautmanntr...@gmx.de:

You may obtain this info easily for the Mac. Just open the terminal and
enter:

ioreg -lw0 | grep IODisplayEDID | sed /[^]*/s/// | xxd -p -r | strings
-6



ROTFLMAO.
easily, eh?


ioreg is easy to type, but difficult to understand.

Copy/paste of a line should be easy enough.

However, and of course, there are guis which do exactly the same but may 
show you the result in another font and order more nicely.


I feel it's easier than to take the computer apart in order to find the 
model inside.


- Martin

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread paul stenquist

On Feb 5, 2010, at 1:09 PM, AlunFoto wrote:

 2010/2/5 Martin Trautmann tr...@gmx.de:
 You may obtain this info easily for the Mac. Just open the terminal and
 enter:
 
 ioreg -lw0 | grep IODisplayEDID | sed /[^]*/s/// | xxd -p -r | strings
 -6
 
 
 ROTFLMAO.
 easily, eh?
 
I did it. If I can do it, anyone can do it:-).
Paul
 Jostein
 
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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread AlunFoto
2010/2/5 Martin Trautmann tr...@gmx.de:
 I feel it's easier than to take the computer apart in order to find the
 model inside.

 :-)

And not to mention less destructive to the unit.

Jostein

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread AlunFoto
2010/2/5 paul stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net:
 I did it. If I can do it, anyone can do it:-).


Well I can't.
Don't have a mac handy. :-)

Jostein

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread Martin Trautmann

Am 05.02.2010 19:11, schrieb AlunFoto:

2010/2/5 Martin Trautmanntr...@gmx.de:

Some typical MBP displays are e.g.
* B133EW07 V1 (AUO)
* LTN133AT09
* LP154WP3-TLA1
* B154PW01 V0


So tell us, Martin! Are they 6 bit TN panels or something decent?


You might google this easily. However, I guess that they are all TN, 
first of all considering my personal experience: when you open and close 
the lid more or less, the colors do change significantly.


Second, I guess that Apple would advertise it if it was the better quality.

- Martin

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread AlunFoto
Okay, I did some googling myself. :-)

2010/2/5 Martin Trautmann tr...@gmx.de:

 * B133EW07 V1 (AUO)

This one is apparently produced in Taiwan by http://www.auo.com . The
panel model doesn't feature on their products page, but all the listed
laptop screens are specified as TN panels. I checked both the 13, 15
and 17 models. So unless it's a very special and secret deal with
Apple only, it's not likely to be anything but TN.

 * LTN133AT09
A Samsung panel. Specifications at Samsung website given only for part
of the model number. I assume it means that the two last digits mean
minor differences. TN panel. Maybe not surprising since the letters
are part of the model name.
http://www.samsung.com/global/business/lcdpanel/productInfo.do?fmly_id=611partnum=LTN133AT

 * LP154WP3-TLA1

An LG model, not a current one, but all its siblings are TN.
http://www.lgdisplay.com/homeContain/jsp/eng/prd/prd300_j_e.jsp

 * B154PW01 V0

Another AUO model, also TN. It's a 15 panel, though, so if a 13
laptop reports that, I'd be very skeptical...

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread Mark Roberts
paul stenquist wrote:

On Feb 5, 2010, at 1:09 PM, AlunFoto wrote:

 2010/2/5 Martin Trautmann tr...@gmx.de:
 You may obtain this info easily for the Mac. Just open the terminal and
 enter:
 
 ioreg -lw0 | grep IODisplayEDID | sed /[^]*/s/// | xxd -p -r | strings
 -6
 
 ROTFLMAO.
 easily, eh?
 
I did it. If I can do it, anyone can do it:-).

Oh yeah? Get Dave Brooks to type that in accurately and I'll believe
anyone can do it!

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread P N Stenquist


On Feb 5, 2010, at 3:23 PM, Mark Roberts wrote:


paul stenquist wrote:


On Feb 5, 2010, at 1:09 PM, AlunFoto wrote:


2010/2/5 Martin Trautmann tr...@gmx.de:
You may obtain this info easily for the Mac. Just open the  
terminal and

enter:

ioreg -lw0 | grep IODisplayEDID | sed /[^]*/s/// | xxd -p -r  
| strings

-6


ROTFLMAO.
easily, eh?


I did it. If I can do it, anyone can do it:-).


Oh yeah? Get Dave Brooks to type that in accurately and I'll believe
anyone can do it!


I copied and pasted it. Dave can do that:-).
Paul

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread AlunFoto
2010/2/5 P N Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net:
 On Feb 5, 2010, at 3:23 PM, Mark Roberts wrote:
 paul stenquist wrote:
 On Feb 5, 2010, at 1:09 PM, AlunFoto wrote:
 2010/2/5 Martin Trautmann tr...@gmx.de:
 You may obtain this info easily for the Mac. Just open the terminal and
 enter:
 ioreg -lw0 | grep IODisplayEDID | sed /[^]*/s/// | xxd -p -r |
 strings
 -6

 ROTFLMAO.
 easily, eh?
 I did it. If I can do it, anyone can do it:-).
 Oh yeah? Get Dave Brooks to type that in accurately and I'll believe
 anyone can do it!
 I copied and pasted it. Dave can do that:-).

Having dabbled with both grep and sed in their Windows incarnations,
the expression was very amusing to me. Mostly because it requires a
very intimate knowledge of what goes on under the hood in the Mac OS,
and of how RegEx works. It's hardly an expression one can concoct from
just looking at some beginner's tutorial... :-)
While googling the display model numbers turned up by Martin, I
noticed that the ioreg expression is posted around many mac user
forums, in every language I'm able to guesscipher without assistance
from translation robots. Panel substitution seems to be more of an
issue for Mac users than I ever imagined. It seems to be at least on
par with what Dell has been doing. It may be because of Apple's
position, as Godfrey explained. With their kind of production volume,
it makes sense to spread risk by having multiple suppliers for the
parts. I wouldn't be surprised if they did the same with eg. hard
drives and RAM. But it still sucks not to inform the customer. -And
that goes for Dell just as much as for Apple, of course.

Btw, I had an insider help me order my Dell to increase the likelihood
of getting the best available panel for the model. but I still don't
know for sure whether it turned out lucky... :-(

Jostein

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread Graydon
On Fri, Feb 05, 2010 at 07:58:56AM -0500, Mark Roberts scripsit:
 Most of Apple's desktop displays are LG/Philips, with Samsung making
 an occasional appearance. But I can't find out what kind of display is
 in anyone's laptop computer.

It's profoundly unlikely to be the same display in ever instance of a
particular model in any case.

Part substitution on that level is pretty solidly widespread.

-- Graydon

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread Mark Roberts
Graydon wrote:

On Fri, Feb 05, 2010 at 07:58:56AM -0500, Mark Roberts scripsit:
 Most of Apple's desktop displays are LG/Philips, with Samsung making
 an occasional appearance. But I can't find out what kind of display is
 in anyone's laptop computer.

It's profoundly unlikely to be the same display in ever instance of a
particular model in any case.

Part substitution on that level is pretty solidly widespread.

Part substitution is certainly widespread, but one shouldn't
substitute a TN panel for an IPS, MVA or PVA!


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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread Graydon
On Fri, Feb 05, 2010 at 05:16:21PM -0500, Mark Roberts scripsit:
 Graydon wrote:
 On Fri, Feb 05, 2010 at 07:58:56AM -0500, Mark Roberts scripsit:
  Most of Apple's desktop displays are LG/Philips, with Samsung making
  an occasional appearance. But I can't find out what kind of display is
  in anyone's laptop computer.
 
 It's profoundly unlikely to be the same display in ever instance of a
 particular model in any case.
 
 Part substitution on that level is pretty solidly widespread.
 
 Part substitution is certainly widespread, but one shouldn't
 substitute a TN panel for an IPS, MVA or PVA!

The folks doing the substitution are doing it on the basis of a very
limited spec -- can it display this many distinct colours? -- and cost,
not image quality.  Typical supplier contracts will mandate 50% unit
price reduction over the 6 month span of the contract.

Last I checked, guaranteed image quality flat panel displays were two
orders of magnitude more expensive than the stuff going into consumer
laptops.

-- Graydon

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread Charles Robinson
On Feb 5, 2010, at 9:12, Martin Trautmann wrote:
 
 You may obtain this info easily for the Mac. Just open the terminal and enter:
 
 ioreg -lw0 | grep IODisplayEDID | sed /[^]*/s/// | xxd -p -r | strings -6
 

LP133WX1-TLA1
Color LCD

I've got a 13 Macbook (late 2007 I think is the version...)

But I've no idea what that means.  I guess (sez Google) it's an LG!

 -Charles

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread paul stenquist

On Feb 5, 2010, at 9:35 PM, Charles Robinson wrote:

 On Feb 5, 2010, at 9:12, Martin Trautmann wrote:
 
 You may obtain this info easily for the Mac. Just open the terminal and 
 enter:
 
 ioreg -lw0 | grep IODisplayEDID | sed /[^]*/s/// | xxd -p -r | strings -6
 
 
 LP133WX1-TLA1
 Color LCD
 
 I've got a 13 Macbook (late 2007 I think is the version...)
 
 But I've no idea what that means.  I guess (sez Google) it's an LG!
 
 -Charles
 
I have a 13 inch Macbook, early 2009. It comes up as:

LTN133AT09
Color LCD 

According to the web it's an LG Phillips screen, branded Samsung. Gets good 
reviews. I like it. But I don't use the laptop for photo work unless I have to.
Paul

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays? - correction

2010-02-05 Thread steve harley

On 2010-02-05 04:09 , AlunFoto wrote:

2010/2/5 Jim Kingjamesk8...@mac.com:


Sorry, but I need to correct myself - evidently I was thinking of the latest
iMac displays, which are said to be IPS.  I can't find any credible source
to support my statement above that the MacBook Pro displays use IPS.  They
do use LED backlighting, however, and they are gorgeous, IMO.


Bugger. You had my hopes high there for a while.

LEDs are a Good Thing, though, no matter what panel is stacked before it.


they are still very good displays, as TN display go; and yes, LED is 
good, but for the most part the only quality advantage of LEDs is that 
they don't fade over the years the way fluorescent backlights do; the 
earlier generation of LED backlights in MacBook Pros even had some 
consistency problems, but i think the current generation have really got 
it right



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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread Joseph McAllister


On Feb 5, 2010, at 07:12 , Martin Trautmann wrote:


Am 05.02.2010 14:33, schrieb AlunFoto:


Apparently, some of the more obsessed laptop geeks have a habit of
picking their machines apart to find model numbers printed on the
display assembly. That's how Dell was caught sourcing different
displays in some laptop models at different production runs.


You may obtain this info easily for the Mac. Just open the terminal  
and enter:


ioreg -lw0 | grep IODisplayEDID | sed /[^]*/s/// | xxd -p -r |  
strings -6


What's your computer and what does ioreg name?



2007 Macbook = LP133WX1-TLA1

2008 iMac   =  LM240WU2-SLB1

Joseph McAllister
pentax...@mac.com

THE SENILITY PRAYER :
Grant me the senility to forget the people
I never liked anyway,
The good fortune to run into the ones I do, and
The eyesight to tell the difference.


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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread Joseph McAllister

On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:17 , Mark Roberts wrote:


AlunFoto wrote:


2010/2/5 Martin Trautmann tr...@gmx.de:
You may obtain this info easily for the Mac. Just open the  
terminal and

enter:

ioreg -lw0 | grep IODisplayEDID | sed /[^]*/s/// | xxd -p -r |  
strings

-6


ROTFLMAO.
easily, eh?


Yeah. That's a Quotes List candidate for sure!




Hellava lot easier than removing the screen to find where the ID was  
printed!


:-)



Joseph McAllister
pentax...@mac.com

THE SENILITY PRAYER :
Grant me the senility to forget the people
I never liked anyway,
The good fortune to run into the ones I do, and
The eyesight to tell the difference.


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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread P. J. Alling
Seems to be a regular expression, any Unix Geek should be able to write 
'em.


On 2/5/2010 1:09 PM, AlunFoto wrote:

2010/2/5 Martin Trautmanntr...@gmx.de:
   

You may obtain this info easily for the Mac. Just open the terminal and
enter:

ioreg -lw0 | grep IODisplayEDID | sed /[^]*/s/// | xxd -p -r | strings
-6
 


ROTFLMAO.
easily, eh?

Jostein

   



--
{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fnil\fcharset0 Courier 
New;}}
\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 I've just upgraded to Thunderbird 3.0 and the 
interface subtly weird.\par
}


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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread Joseph McAllister

On Feb 5, 2010, at 12:23 , Mark Roberts wrote:


paul stenquist wrote:


On Feb 5, 2010, at 1:09 PM, AlunFoto wrote:


2010/2/5 Martin Trautmann tr...@gmx.de:
You may obtain this info easily for the Mac. Just open the  
terminal and

enter:

ioreg -lw0 | grep IODisplayEDID | sed /[^]*/s/// | xxd -p -r  
| strings

-6


ROTFLMAO.
easily, eh?


I did it. If I can do it, anyone can do it:-).


Oh yeah? Get Dave Brooks to type that in accurately and I'll believe
anyone can do it!



Copy  Paste on the iMac 24, but I typed it into my White 13 MP  
without an error.
The trick is to use the cursor on the other machine and move it  
along to make sure where there are spaces, or not.




Joseph McAllister
pentax...@mac.com

“ It is still true, as was first said many years ago, that people are  
the only sophisticated computing devices that can be made at low cost  
by unskilled workers!”

— Martin G. Wolf, PhD


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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-05 Thread steve harley

On 2010-02-05 10:15 , Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

I was deeply involved with Apple as an external developer from 1984 on
and then worked for Apple from 1991, shortly after the first PowerBook
introduction, to 2004. I sat in laptop development teams representing
Developer Relations during the first decade of my involvement there.
RAM and hard drives have *always* been user upgradeable, on all of
them, although some have been easier to do the upgrade than others.


i didn't work at Apple, but i have direct experience replacing hard 
drives with several of these models, and a lot of knowledge of Apple 
policies and hardware ... for laptop hard drives, what you say is only 
generally true for certain uncommon definitions of user upgradeable


all of the g4 PowerBooks and the MacBooks Pro until the Unibody have had 
a deeply buried hard drive -- the vast majority of users would not feel 
comfortable with, and might well bungle, the replacement task;  but yes, 
if it were accomplished carefully, it would not void the warranty, so 
that meets one definition of user replaceable


in contrast, Apple has officially sanctioned the hard drive as user 
replaceable in the current Unibody units; the instructions are in the 
user guide (whereas for previous G4 and later laptops no public Apple 
instructions are available for hard drive replacements); if you have 
good touch with a fine Phillips screwdriver, you can replace the hard 
drive in a Unibodoy MacBook Pro in less than five minutes, though it 
still takes some care; it's at least 20 and more like an hour the first 
time with the older models


comparison - three steps (numbers 5, 6, and 8 here) are all you need for 
the Unibody models:


http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook-Pro-17-Inch-Unibody-Teardown/618/1#top

versus the 15 steps here:

http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Repair/Installing-MacBook-Pro-15-Inch-Core-2-Duo-Model-A1211-Hard-Drive-Replacement/459



They've always used industry standard components for these items too.


yes and no; the hard drives always (still) have a custom label with an 
Apple logo on them, and the model number often doesn't exactly match 
what is commercially available, though the actual differences from 
standard components are miniscule because, of course, Apple does not 
make hard drives



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Re: Laptop computers with good displays? - correction

2010-02-05 Thread Martin Trautmann

Am 05.02.2010 05:01, schrieb Jim King:


Sorry, but I need to correct myself - evidently I was thinking of the
latest iMac displays, which are said to be IPS. I can't find any
credible source to support my statement above that the MacBook Pro
displays use IPS.


Thanks for the corection. But the iPad will have IPS...

- Martin

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RE: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-04 Thread Rick Womer
Tanya,

If you want a Mac, go for it.  My MacBook Pro gets along just fine with the 
Windows-oriented network at work, and I've traveled with it to friends' houses 
with all-PC networks and not had any problems.

Rick

http://photo.net/photos/RickW


--- On Wed, 2/3/10, Tanya Love tanyal...@bigpond.com wrote:

 From: Tanya Love tanyal...@bigpond.com
 Subject: RE: Laptop computers with good displays?
 To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Wednesday, February 3, 2010, 10:33 PM
 I'd love to hear thoughts on this
 too!  Just got myself sorted with my K-7,
 now I need a new lappy to keep up with the higher res
 images! ;)
 
 Been considering switching to Mac but don't think I'm going
 to as that would
 make things hard with software and networking the other
 'puters in the house
 etc.
 
 I too don't want a big display, makes it much too heavy and
 won't fit in my
 awesome Crumpler backpack!  I will do most editing on
 an external monitor,
 but even so
 would like a decent one on my laptop too.  
 
 Has anyone got any experience with the Dell Precision 6400
 that was in
 Advanced Photoshop magazine?  It is here:
 http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/workstation-pre
 cision-m6400-cov?c=aucs=aubsd1l=ens=bsd
 
 That thing is a MONSTER!  Oh, how I DREAM about
 something like that!
 BUT, alas, my meagre budget is only about half of the $5699
 asking price, so
 I'll probably end up with another HP... :(
 
 Tan.
 
 -Original Message-
 From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net
 [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net]
 On Behalf Of Mark
 Roberts
 Sent: Thursday, 4 February 2010 12:11 PM
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 Subject: Laptop computers with good displays?
 
 Anyone know of any laptop computers with good (IPS/MVA/PVA)
 displays?
 Particularly any reasonably sized ones? Last I heard there
 weren't any high
 quality displays under 17 and I'd prefer something smaller
 than that if
 possible.
 
 My current laptop just died. It's a total nothing lights
 up failure, so I
 have a sneaking suspicion that it's something very basic
 and not a
 prohibitively expensive fix. But if fate does bless me with
 an expensive
 repair that justifies ditching it and buying a new
 computer, I'd like to be
 prepared...
 
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 of virus signature
 database 4833 (20100203) __
 
 The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
 
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RE: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-04 Thread Tanya Love
Cool!  The lack of viruses is certainly appealing too.  I am thinking that I
would go for the 15 MacBook Pro, it's just that I haven't used a Mac since
highschool and although I know the user interface is so easy to work with, I
worry that I am not going to have the time to retrain myself on it, iykwim?
The other thing that sucks with them is that they are near impossible to
upgrade...

Decisions, decisions! Lol.

-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Rick
Womer
Sent: Thursday, 4 February 2010 10:09 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: RE: Laptop computers with good displays?

Tanya,

If you want a Mac, go for it.  My MacBook Pro gets along just fine with the
Windows-oriented network at work, and I've traveled with it to friends'
houses with all-PC networks and not had any problems.

Rick

http://photo.net/photos/RickW



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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-04 Thread Paul Sorenson

On 2/3/2010 10:00 PM, Doug Brewer wrote:

Mark Roberts wrote:

Anyone know of any laptop computers with good (IPS/MVA/PVA) displays?
Particularly any reasonably sized ones? Last I heard there weren't any
high quality displays under 17 and I'd prefer something smaller than
that if possible.

My current laptop just died. It's a total nothing lights up failure,
so I have a sneaking suspicion that it's something very basic and not
a prohibitively expensive fix. But if fate does bless me with an
expensive repair that justifies ditching it and buying a new computer,
I'd like to be prepared...




time for an iPad



Rabblerouser...!
   



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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-04 Thread John Sessoms

From: Doug Brewer

Mark Roberts wrote:

 Anyone know of any laptop computers with good (IPS/MVA/PVA) displays?
 Particularly any reasonably sized ones? Last I heard there weren't any
 high quality displays under 17 and I'd prefer something smaller than
 that if possible.
 
 My current laptop just died. It's a total nothing lights up failure,

 so I have a sneaking suspicion that it's something very basic and not
 a prohibitively expensive fix. But if fate does bless me with an
 expensive repair that justifies ditching it and buying a new computer,
 I'd like to be prepared...
 



time for an iPad


Please don't do that while I'm still trying to get my first cup of 
coffee in the morning.


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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-04 Thread Bruce Dayton
Something an old boss of mine taught me was to be wary of the 'Grass
is greener on the other side' syndrome.  If you are happy with the PC
world, then what is the incentive to move to a Mac?  If that world
were as wonderful as it is made out to be, the marketshare percentage
would be much higher.

If you spend equivalent money, you can get quite an amazing system,
or you could spend about half the money for a fairly equivalent
system.

-- 
Best regards,
Bruce


Thursday, February 4, 2010, 5:17:05 AM, you wrote:

TL Cool!  The lack of viruses is certainly appealing too.  I am thinking that I
TL would go for the 15 MacBook Pro, it's just that I haven't used a Mac since
TL highschool and although I know the user interface is so easy to work with, I
TL worry that I am not going to have the time to retrain myself on it, iykwim?
TL The other thing that sucks with them is that they are near impossible to
TL upgrade...

TL Decisions, decisions! Lol.

TL -Original Message-
TL From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Rick
TL Womer
TL Sent: Thursday, 4 February 2010 10:09 PM
TL To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
TL Subject: RE: Laptop computers with good displays?

TL Tanya,

TL If you want a Mac, go for it.  My MacBook Pro gets along just fine with the
TL Windows-oriented network at work, and I've traveled with it to friends'
TL houses with all-PC networks and not had any problems.

TL Rick

TL http://photo.net/photos/RickW






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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-04 Thread Igor Roshchin

Mark,

Sorry, somebody might have responded with this information already - 
I am short on time to read the entire thread at the moment.

Fujitsu laptops in general tend to have good quality screens.
I never researched the type of the LCDs.

If you are looking for ultraportable line (comparable in size to
netbooks but with a proper CPU capabilities, - you should look at
P series. 
S series is somewhat larger/heavier, but still very reasonable.
(they also have desktop-alternative versions, - but I don't know
much about those)

You might find discussions about Fujitsu models on leog.net forums useful.

AS for P series, - I've had my P5020D for over 6 years now, and I love
it. 10.8, ~3.6 lbs.
P7K series was also good. Some people like P8K family less, but I think
it's a matter of preference. There are two new models P8210 and
something else that haven't reached US market yet. I am waiting for
them to upgrade my P5K.
There is a claim that until P8120 all P-series laptops were produced
by Fujitsu itself (as opposed to OEM, as it is done by many laptop
manufacturers these days, - especially in case of cheap netbooks).
P8210 is expected to be the first OEM-produced, but again, the claim is 
that Fujitsu has very tight control over the OEM.
(Well, Fujitsu is itself an OEM, - so it sounds weird, - but that's
the common usage when OEM is used as non-brand-name company.)

HTH,

Igor


Wed Feb 3 20:11:07 CST 2010
Mark Roberts wrote:

Anyone know of any laptop computers with good (IPS/MVA/PVA) displays?
Particularly any reasonably sized ones? Last I heard there weren't any
high quality displays under 17 and I'd prefer something smaller than
that if possible.

My current laptop just died. It's a total nothing lights up failure,
so I have a sneaking suspicion that it's something very basic and not
a prohibitively expensive fix. But if fate does bless me with an
expensive repair that justifies ditching it and buying a new computer,
I'd like to be prepared...


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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-04 Thread Jim King

AlunFoto wrote on Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:45:02 -0800:


Mark,

I researched this extensively a year ago before buying a laptop
myself. My conclusion then was that no laptops with smaller than 17
screen has any of the higher quality panel types. That also included
the offerings from Apple.
(snip)
Anyway, things may have changed in the past year. From experience I  
strongly recommend you find one with LED backlighting whatever you  
do. LED has more even illumination towards the corners, does not  
require warm-up before colour rendition is stable, and consumes less  
power than do CCFL. However if you find you have to go with a CCFL  
based screen because of other model specifications, make sure you  
find one with at least two tubes to get decent brightness. The  
recent Lenovos like W400 for example, have rather weak illumination.
Mark (and Jostein), things HAVE changed in the MacBook Pro lineup.   
All of the current offerings use an IPS screen with LED backlighting.   
I got a 15 incher at Chrstmas as a present for myself, and it's  
gorgeous!  You can get either a glossy screen or a matte screen ($50  
upcharge) as you prefer.


Do yourself a favor and take a look at the Mac Book Pro before you  
decide what to buy.


Regards, Jim

“Worry never robs tomorrow of its sorrow, it only saps today of its  
joy.”

- Leo Buscaglia





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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-04 Thread Charles Robinson
On Feb 4, 2010, at 7:17, Tanya Love wrote:

 Cool!  The lack of viruses is certainly appealing too.  I am thinking that I
 would go for the 15 MacBook Pro, it's just that I haven't used a Mac since
 highschool and although I know the user interface is so easy to work with, I
 worry that I am not going to have the time to retrain myself on it, iykwim?

Takes a couple weeks to settle in.  If you've used a Mac before it may be even 
less.  That was pretty much my figure it out period when I made the jump 4 
years ago.

 The other thing that sucks with them is that they are near impossible to
 upgrade...
 

Bigger harddrive, more RAM are much much easier to accomplish now than in the 
past.  At least - my white plastic Macbook makes it easier than any other 
laptop I've ever used before.

 -Charles

--
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Minneapolis, MN
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http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson


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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-04 Thread steve harley

On 2010-02-03 19:11 , Mark Roberts wrote:

Anyone know of any laptop computers with good (IPS/MVA/PVA) displays?


current Mac laptops reportedly have TN displays (if someone has a 
reference to confirm they are IPS i'd like to know), but Apple claims 
60% wider gamut and implies all models have the same display quality; 
i can report real satisfaction with casual use of my 13 MacBook Pro 
display, but i plug it into an older 24 IPS display when i edit photos


the glossy display bugs me, but i've gotten over it; would definitely 
have gotten matte if it were available on the 13, but the portability 
(typing this on an airplane) and modest price (for a Mac) has won me over


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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-04 Thread steve harley

On 2010-02-04 06:17 , Tanya Love wrote:

Cool!  The lack of viruses is certainly appealing too.  I am thinking that I
would go for the 15 MacBook Pro, it's just that I haven't used a Mac since
highschool and although I know the user interface is so easy to work with, I
worry that I am not going to have the time to retrain myself on it, iykwim?
The other thing that sucks with them is that they are near impossible to
upgrade...


the current MacBook Pros have user-replacable hard drives and RAM (and 
can accept up to 8GB RAM); most of the other things people typically 
want are built-in, except for Express Card, which is now only on the 17 
-- what upgrades would you want to do?


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Re: Laptop computers with good displays? - correction

2010-02-04 Thread Jim King

Jim King wrote on Thu, 04 Feb 2010 13:05:07 -0800

Mark (and Jostein), things HAVE changed in the MacBook Pro lineup.  
All of the current offerings use an IPS screen with LED  
backlighting. I got a 15 incher at Chrstmas as a present for myself,  
and it's gorgeous! You can get either a glossy screen or a matte  
screen ($50 upcharge) as you prefer.
Do yourself a favor and take a look at the Mac Book Pro before you  
decide what to buy.


Sorry, but I need to correct myself - evidently I was thinking of the  
latest iMac displays, which are said to be IPS.  I can't find any  
credible source to support my statement above that the MacBook Pro  
displays use IPS.  They do use LED backlighting, however, and they are  
gorgeous, IMO.


Regards, Jim

“Worry never robs tomorrow of its sorrow, it only saps today of its  
joy.”

- Leo Buscaglia



Jim King
jamesk8...@mac.com




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RE: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-04 Thread Tanya Love
Really?  Well that shows how limited my Mac knowledge is, I always thought
that you had to keep whatever you got with it!  I didn't even know that you
could upgrade the RAM and hard drive!  

Me thinks I need to do lots more research!

-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of
steve harley
Sent: Friday, 5 February 2010 9:35 AM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

On 2010-02-04 06:17 , Tanya Love wrote:
 Cool!  The lack of viruses is certainly appealing too.  I am thinking 
 that I would go for the 15 MacBook Pro, it's just that I haven't used 
 a Mac since highschool and although I know the user interface is so 
 easy to work with, I worry that I am not going to have the time to retrain
myself on it, iykwim?
 The other thing that sucks with them is that they are near impossible 
 to upgrade...

the current MacBook Pros have user-replacable hard drives and RAM (and can
accept up to 8GB RAM); most of the other things people typically want are
built-in, except for Express Card, which is now only on the 17 
-- what upgrades would you want to do?

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database 4836 (20100204) __

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com




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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-04 Thread Joseph McAllister

On Feb 4, 2010, at 13:04 , Jim King wrote:


AlunFoto wrote on Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:45:02 -0800:


Mark,

I researched this extensively a year ago before buying a laptop
myself. My conclusion then was that no laptops with smaller than 17
screen has any of the higher quality panel types. That also included
the offerings from Apple.
(snip)
Anyway, things may have changed in the past year. From experience I  
strongly recommend you find one with LED backlighting whatever you  
do. LED has more even illumination towards the corners, does not  
require warm-up before colour rendition is stable, and consumes  
less power than do CCFL. However if you find you have to go with a  
CCFL based screen because of other model specifications, make sure  
you find one with at least two tubes to get decent brightness. The  
recent Lenovos like W400 for example, have rather weak illumination.
Mark (and Jostein), things HAVE changed in the MacBook Pro lineup.   
All of the current offerings use an IPS screen with LED  
backlighting.  I got a 15 incher at Chrstmas as a present for  
myself, and it's gorgeous!  You can get either a glossy screen or a  
matte screen ($50 upcharge) as you prefer.


Do yourself a favor and take a look at the Mac Book Pro before you  
decide what to buy.


Sort of along the same vein, and a definite jab, for which I  
apologize, something I just wrote somewhere else on the net:


If someone was standing in front of you, trying to slap your face  
repeatedly, hour after hour, day after day, year after year, would you  
just stand there?


Yet you currently pay someone to stand between you and the deranged  
persons attacking you.


Just one of the ways you would save money in the long run by getting a  
Macintosh! No one slapping, no one to pay to protect your face. Life  
is so much more pleasant.


Why is it that Microsoft has been unable to write an OS for more than  
20 years that has more fortitude than Windows does? I'll never  
understand it.


Crazy love is what you got.

Joseph McAllister
pentax...@mac.com

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Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-03 Thread Mark Roberts
Anyone know of any laptop computers with good (IPS/MVA/PVA) displays?
Particularly any reasonably sized ones? Last I heard there weren't any
high quality displays under 17 and I'd prefer something smaller than
that if possible.

My current laptop just died. It's a total nothing lights up failure,
so I have a sneaking suspicion that it's something very basic and not
a prohibitively expensive fix. But if fate does bless me with an
expensive repair that justifies ditching it and buying a new computer,
I'd like to be prepared...

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-03 Thread Rick Womer
I had an HP/Compaq 8230 that had a wonderful display.  Pity the thing died at 
3.3 years into its 3 year warranty, because of a motherboard failure.

See this article and its links for a very thorough review of several laptops:

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-10042-10218

Rick

http://photo.net/photos/RickW


--- On Wed, 2/3/10, Mark Roberts m...@robertstech.com wrote:

 From: Mark Roberts m...@robertstech.com
 Subject: Laptop computers with good displays?
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Wednesday, February 3, 2010, 9:11 PM
 Anyone know of any laptop computers
 with good (IPS/MVA/PVA) displays?
 Particularly any reasonably sized ones? Last I heard there
 weren't any
 high quality displays under 17 and I'd prefer something
 smaller than
 that if possible.
 
 My current laptop just died. It's a total nothing lights
 up failure,
 so I have a sneaking suspicion that it's something very
 basic and not
 a prohibitively expensive fix. But if fate does bless me
 with an
 expensive repair that justifies ditching it and buying a
 new computer,
 I'd like to be prepared...
 
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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-03 Thread Tom C
Power supply most likely which should usually be not too expensive.
Sorry can't recommend a cheap laptop at the moment.  I've got a 17 HP
and next time may go with a 13 or smaller (not a netbook), because
I'm tired of lugging 10 pounds + 20 pounds of bag, paper, cords,
drives, etc.


On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 9:11 PM, Mark Roberts m...@robertstech.com wrote:
 Anyone know of any laptop computers with good (IPS/MVA/PVA) displays?
 Particularly any reasonably sized ones? Last I heard there weren't any
 high quality displays under 17 and I'd prefer something smaller than
 that if possible.

 My current laptop just died. It's a total nothing lights up failure,
 so I have a sneaking suspicion that it's something very basic and not
 a prohibitively expensive fix. But if fate does bless me with an
 expensive repair that justifies ditching it and buying a new computer,
 I'd like to be prepared...

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 PDML@pdml.net
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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-03 Thread Sasha Sobol
Old ibm think pads (now lenovo) had great s-ips displays.
It was called flexview.
--Sasha

On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 6:28 PM, Rick Womer rwomer1...@yahoo.com wrote:
 I had an HP/Compaq 8230 that had a wonderful display.  Pity the thing died at 
 3.3 years into its 3 year warranty, because of a motherboard failure.

 See this article and its links for a very thorough review of several laptops:

 http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-10042-10218

 Rick

 http://photo.net/photos/RickW


 --- On Wed, 2/3/10, Mark Roberts m...@robertstech.com wrote:

 From: Mark Roberts m...@robertstech.com
 Subject: Laptop computers with good displays?
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Wednesday, February 3, 2010, 9:11 PM
 Anyone know of any laptop computers
 with good (IPS/MVA/PVA) displays?
 Particularly any reasonably sized ones? Last I heard there
 weren't any
 high quality displays under 17 and I'd prefer something
 smaller than
 that if possible.

 My current laptop just died. It's a total nothing lights
 up failure,
 so I have a sneaking suspicion that it's something very
 basic and not
 a prohibitively expensive fix. But if fate does bless me
 with an
 expensive repair that justifies ditching it and buying a
 new computer,
 I'd like to be prepared...

 --
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 PDML@pdml.net
 http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-03 Thread paul stenquist
I believe the new Macbook 15 inchers have high quality displays. I believe they 
added the 15s to the mix this year. Previously, only the 17s had the high end 
displays.
Paul
On Feb 3, 2010, at 9:11 PM, Mark Roberts wrote:

 Anyone know of any laptop computers with good (IPS/MVA/PVA) displays?
 Particularly any reasonably sized ones? Last I heard there weren't any
 high quality displays under 17 and I'd prefer something smaller than
 that if possible.
 
 My current laptop just died. It's a total nothing lights up failure,
 so I have a sneaking suspicion that it's something very basic and not
 a prohibitively expensive fix. But if fate does bless me with an
 expensive repair that justifies ditching it and buying a new computer,
 I'd like to be prepared...
 
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 PDML@pdml.net
 http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-03 Thread Rick Womer
Here's the key link from a previous Rob Galbraith article:

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-9320-9876

Rick

http://photo.net/photos/RickW


--- On Wed, 2/3/10, Rick Womer rwomer1...@yahoo.com wrote:



 I had an HP/Compaq 8230 that had a
 wonderful display.  Pity the thing died at 3.3 years
 into its 3 year warranty, because of a motherboard failure.
 
 See this article and its links for a very thorough review
 of several laptops:
 
 http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-10042-10218
 
 Rick
 
 http://photo.net/photos/RickW
 
 
 --- On Wed, 2/3/10, Mark Roberts m...@robertstech.com
 wrote:
 
  From: Mark Roberts m...@robertstech.com
  Subject: Laptop computers with good displays?
  To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
  Date: Wednesday, February 3, 2010, 9:11 PM
  Anyone know of any laptop computers
  with good (IPS/MVA/PVA) displays?
  Particularly any reasonably sized ones? Last I heard
 there
  weren't any
  high quality displays under 17 and I'd prefer
 something
  smaller than
  that if possible.
  
  My current laptop just died. It's a total nothing
 lights
  up failure,
  so I have a sneaking suspicion that it's something
 very
  basic and not
  a prohibitively expensive fix. But if fate does bless
 me
  with an
  expensive repair that justifies ditching it and buying
 a
  new computer,
  I'd like to be prepared...
  
  -- 
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  to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link
  directly above and follow the directions.
  
 
 
       
 
 
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 directly above and follow the directions.
 


  


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RE: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-03 Thread Tanya Love
I'd love to hear thoughts on this too!  Just got myself sorted with my K-7,
now I need a new lappy to keep up with the higher res images! ;)

Been considering switching to Mac but don't think I'm going to as that would
make things hard with software and networking the other 'puters in the house
etc.

I too don't want a big display, makes it much too heavy and won't fit in my
awesome Crumpler backpack!  I will do most editing on an external monitor,
but even so
would like a decent one on my laptop too.  

Has anyone got any experience with the Dell Precision 6400 that was in
Advanced Photoshop magazine?  It is here:
http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/workstation-pre
cision-m6400-cov?c=aucs=aubsd1l=ens=bsd

That thing is a MONSTER!  Oh, how I DREAM about something like that!
BUT, alas, my meagre budget is only about half of the $5699 asking price, so
I'll probably end up with another HP... :(

Tan.

-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Mark
Roberts
Sent: Thursday, 4 February 2010 12:11 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Laptop computers with good displays?

Anyone know of any laptop computers with good (IPS/MVA/PVA) displays?
Particularly any reasonably sized ones? Last I heard there weren't any high
quality displays under 17 and I'd prefer something smaller than that if
possible.

My current laptop just died. It's a total nothing lights up failure, so I
have a sneaking suspicion that it's something very basic and not a
prohibitively expensive fix. But if fate does bless me with an expensive
repair that justifies ditching it and buying a new computer, I'd like to be
prepared...

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database 4833 (20100203) __

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-03 Thread Bruce Dayton
Hello Mark,

In the PC world, Fujitsu laptops have been known for high quality
displays.  Something you should check in to.

-- 
Best regards,
Bruce


Wednesday, February 3, 2010, 6:11:07 PM, you wrote:

MR Anyone know of any laptop computers with good (IPS/MVA/PVA) displays?
MR Particularly any reasonably sized ones? Last I heard there weren't any
MR high quality displays under 17 and I'd prefer something smaller than
MR that if possible.

MR My current laptop just died. It's a total nothing lights up failure,
MR so I have a sneaking suspicion that it's something very basic and not
MR a prohibitively expensive fix. But if fate does bless me with an
MR expensive repair that justifies ditching it and buying a new computer,
MR I'd like to be prepared...




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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-03 Thread Doug Brewer

Mark Roberts wrote:

Anyone know of any laptop computers with good (IPS/MVA/PVA) displays?
Particularly any reasonably sized ones? Last I heard there weren't any
high quality displays under 17 and I'd prefer something smaller than
that if possible.

My current laptop just died. It's a total nothing lights up failure,
so I have a sneaking suspicion that it's something very basic and not
a prohibitively expensive fix. But if fate does bless me with an
expensive repair that justifies ditching it and buying a new computer,
I'd like to be prepared...




time for an iPad

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-03 Thread drd1135
I had that very thought. It would look good but I wonder what its like to work 
on it. 
--Original Message--
From: Doug Brewer
Sender: pdml-boun...@pdml.net
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
ReplyTo: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: Laptop computers with good displays?
Sent: Feb 3, 2010 11:00 PM

Mark Roberts wrote:
 Anyone know of any laptop computers with good (IPS/MVA/PVA) displays?
 Particularly any reasonably sized ones? Last I heard there weren't any
 high quality displays under 17 and I'd prefer something smaller than
 that if possible.
 
 My current laptop just died. It's a total nothing lights up failure,
 so I have a sneaking suspicion that it's something very basic and not
 a prohibitively expensive fix. But if fate does bless me with an
 expensive repair that justifies ditching it and buying a new computer,
 I'd like to be prepared...
 


time for an iPad

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Steve Desjardins
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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-03 Thread AlunFoto
Mark,

I researched this extensively a year ago before buying a laptop
myself. My conclusion then was that no laptops with smaller than 17
screen has any of the higher quality panel types. That also included
the offerings from Apple.

The IPS-based FlexView series of screens from IBM/Lenovo ended with
the T60 model.

After researching the available panel types of all the screen mfg.s I
could find a website for, I believe there are probably no reputable
makers of high-quality panels in small sizes anymore. It looks like
they are all waiting for OLED to happen, and in the meanwhile compete
over TN panels with the least power consumption rather than colour
accuracy.

Even in the = 17 segment, I found only 4 laptops _claiming_ superior
colour rendition; Dell precision 6400, Apple's 17 macbook, Lenovo's
monster ThinkPad W700 (you'll need one heck of a lap to insist on it
being a laptop), and HP EliteBook 8730w.

I could find no in-depth information on the Apple, but the others
appear to have PVA panels.

Dell source their panels from different vendors all the time, and
there are many reports of Dell screens with same model number but
different panel types depending on availability at the moment of
production. I found no direct reference to the Presicion 6400 in
particular, though.

I also found out that most glare-free laptop screens are actually
glossy screens with a sheet of matting foil on top. My impression is
that opting for a matte screen reduce reflections, but at the same
time trade higher translucency for a smaller viewing angle. IOW, not
really a good bargain.

Anyway, things may have changed in the past year. From experience I
strongly recommend you find one with LED backlighting whatever you do.
LED has more even illumination towards the corners, does not require
warm-up before colour rendition is stable, and consumes less power
than do CCFL. However if you find you have to go with a CCFL based
screen because of other model specifications, make sure you find one
with at least two tubes to get decent brightness. The recent Lenovos
like W400 for example, have rather weak illumination.

Personally I ended up buying a Dell Precision 2400 (14 1440x900px
matted LED-lit screen) which is no more than half-decent when
calibrated. But it has a weight and bulk I can live with.

hth,
Jostein

2010/2/4 Mark Roberts m...@robertstech.com:
 Anyone know of any laptop computers with good (IPS/MVA/PVA) displays?
 Particularly any reasonably sized ones? Last I heard there weren't any
 high quality displays under 17 and I'd prefer something smaller than
 that if possible.

 My current laptop just died. It's a total nothing lights up failure,
 so I have a sneaking suspicion that it's something very basic and not
 a prohibitively expensive fix. But if fate does bless me with an
 expensive repair that justifies ditching it and buying a new computer,
 I'd like to be prepared...

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 PDML@pdml.net
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-- 
http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/
http://alunfoto.blogspot.com

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Re: Laptop computers with good displays?

2010-02-03 Thread Godfrey DiGiorgi
IMO, no laptop screen regardless of computer brand or screen size is
truly worthwhile for real image processing work. Only for quick and
dirty roughing in.

That said, the matte screens Apple's been using are pretty good and
calibrate well. Glossy screens ... well, I dislike them but for what I
use a laptop screen for, it doesn't really seem to matter much. My
current (now ancient) PowerBook G4 15 works well enough for my needs,
the new MacBook Pro 13 and 15 models are what I'll buy next.

For any real image adjustment work, I'll connect any laptop with a
suitably high quality graphics adapter to a good quality desktop
display, and calibrate that. Any laptop without a suitably high
quality graphics adapter isn't worth buying for image processing work.


On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 6:11 PM, Mark Roberts m...@robertstech.com wrote:
 Anyone know of any laptop computers with good (IPS/MVA/PVA) displays?
 Particularly any reasonably sized ones? Last I heard there weren't any
 high quality displays under 17 and I'd prefer something smaller than
 that if possible.

 My current laptop just died. It's a total nothing lights up failure,
 so I have a sneaking suspicion that it's something very basic and not
 a prohibitively expensive fix. But if fate does bless me with an
 expensive repair that justifies ditching it and buying a new computer,
 I'd like to be prepared...

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-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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