Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
Hi, Tried to send this offlist but it bounced for some reason. Mark Roberts wrote: As long as we're on the subject... NS 4.7 on ME Staff photos page gives four columns but pics are piled all over each other. No apparent content on Location, Cafe, Calendar and CU pages. Nothing in the box on the right after Index page. Logo overlays address on About us (and horizontal bar on Contact) page. Not obvious that the top left logo is a Home link. Bulk page not listed on left and not found from right box link. Keep up the good work m
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
graywolf: Javascript is a subset of Java which is an html scripting language. Javascript is not a subset of Java. Despite their similar names, Javascript and Java are two totally separate things. Its problem is that it run browser side (on the users machine). PHP is also an html scripting language, but it runs server side. The commercial website builders seem to prefer Javascript (remember they also like Macromedia Flash a browser side graphical language). The non-commercial crowd much prefer PHP. I don't really know what you mean by commercial and non-commercial website builders, but my experience is that people that do websites for a living almost always use server side scripting techniques like PHP, ASP, JSP, CGI etc. They use a lot of Javascript as well, while home programmers more often use Javascript only, even to tasks that Javascript is ill suited, since in order to use server side scripting you'd have to have control over the server, which home programmers more seldom have. anders - http://anders.hultman.nu/ med dagens bild och allt!
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
[EMAIL PROTECTED]: Javascript (no longer supported by Microsoft, by IE, but I think that is only the newer versions, I haven't really looked into it), Javascript is indeed supported. There was some controversy about Java not being supported natively, though, since Microsoft wanted to do some changes to Java that it's owner Sun Microsystems didn't allow. You could still install a Java interpreter separately, and as far as I know, most people have. Java and Javascript is not the same thing. anders - http://anders.hultman.nu/ med dagens bild och allt!
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
Hi! graywolf: Javascript is a subset of Java which is an html scripting language. Javascript is not a subset of Java. Despite their similar names, Javascript and Java are two totally separate things. Indeed. These are two different programming languages. I don't really know what you mean by commercial and non-commercial website builders, but my experience is that people that do websites for a living almost always use server side scripting techniques like PHP, ASP, JSP, CGI etc. They use a lot of Javascript as well, while home programmers more often use Javascript only, even to tasks that Javascript is ill suited, since in order to use server side scripting you'd have to have control over the server, which home programmers more seldom have. I have to agree with this analysis. I went even farther as I chose to do all the scripting before the pages are uploaded to server. Mine is only static HTML. Though of course my site is very simple it is web design. Problem with server-scripting is that at times one has to move to a different server which may or may not have this very scripting laguage available... Home casual web programmer speaking... g Boris
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
mike wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tried to send this offlist but it bounced for some reason. Mark Roberts wrote: As long as we're on the subject... NS 4.7 on ME Staff photos page gives four columns but pics are piled all over each other. Thanks. I know Netscape 4.x sometimes does goofy things with tables. I'll see what's up here. No apparent content on Location, Cafe, Calendar and CU pages. Oh yeah - there are lots of missing pages and pages with no content! That stuff will come after the page is working properly. Nothing in the box on the right after Index page. Same as above. Logo overlays address on About us (and horizontal bar on Contact) page. Ah, that's one of the CSS incompatibilities with early Netscape implementations of SCC. I'll see how to deal with that. Not obvious that the top left logo is a Home link. Good point. I'll expend the ALT text. Bulk page not listed on left and not found from right box link. Well not yet, anyway... :) Keep up the good work m -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
In a message dated 3/28/2004 2:55:07 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Javascript is indeed supported. There was some controversy about Java not being supported natively, though, since Microsoft wanted to do some changes to Java that it's owner Sun Microsystems didn't allow. You could still install a Java interpreter separately, and as far as I know, most people have. Java and Javascript is not the same thing. anders Aha. I think I always found it a bit confusing about what MS wouldn't support anymore. Thanks. Some Java libraries are no longer distributed free any more, I think. Anyway, I know I ran into problems with that. But managed to download the last set of Java class libraries (from a friend) that now are no longer available. Marnie aka Doe
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
Anyone know where I can download a copy of Netscape 4.7 for Windows? Doesn't seem to be available on the Netscape web page. -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
Mark Roberts a écrit : Anyone know where I can download a copy of Netscape 4.7 for Windows? Doesn't seem to be available on the Netscape web page Netscape is no more released, use Mozilla http://mozilla.org/ Current release 1.6 The best navigator ! Michel
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
- Original Message - From: Mark Roberts Subject: Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site Anyone know where I can download a copy of Netscape 4.7 for Windows? Doesn't seem to be available on the Netscape web page. I think I have it on a CD somewhere, but I don't have enough webspace to upload it. I expect we can work something out. William Robb
RE: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
Anyone know where I can download a copy of Netscape 4.7 for Windows? Doesn't seem to be available on the Netscape web page. All the versions you could want. Netscape.com browser central product archive http://wp.netscape.com/download/archive.html
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone know where I can download a copy of Netscape 4.7 for Windows? Doesn't seem to be available on the Netscape web page. OK. Found it myself. 4.79 was the oldest version they let me download, but it does show all the problems Mike Wilson noticed. Got 'em fixed now. -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
You can download everything you need from sun for free. (I don't remember the URL and I'm too lazy to look it up). [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 3/28/2004 2:55:07 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Javascript is indeed supported. There was some controversy about Java not being supported natively, though, since Microsoft wanted to do some changes to Java that it's owner Sun Microsystems didn't allow. You could still install a Java interpreter separately, and as far as I know, most people have. Java and Javascript is not the same thing. anders Aha. I think I always found it a bit confusing about what MS wouldn't support anymore. Thanks. Some Java libraries are no longer distributed free any more, I think. Anyway, I know I ran into problems with that. But managed to download the last set of Java class libraries (from a friend) that now are no longer available. Marnie aka Doe
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
In a message dated 3/27/2004 1:12:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 600x400 pixels seems good for 35mm (did you mean 35mm or is there really a 15mm format?). -- Cheers, Bob Oops. 35mm. Thx! Marnie aka Doe
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 12:13 AM Subject: Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site Maybe this question has been answered already in this thread. But I am trying to figure out how large to make my pics (not the thumbnails, what you get when you click a thumbnail) when I throw them up on a page. You know, starting from 15mm slides, turned into JPEGs. Good enough resolution, but not so large that take too long to load. Any sizing parameters that anyone can offer me would be helpful. We used 400x600 pixels on the PUG (and I recall there was much wailing when Mark made this the maximum size) because it allows for reasonable file sizes of less than 100KB (we set 75KB as maximum). This was done to avoid server loading as much as possible, as at the time there were concerns about the amount of HD capacity and bandwidth we were using on the server. I think for a personal space, somewhat larger pixel counts would be reasonable, although I would watch the file sizes, as some people are still on dial up. I would stay under 800 pixels on the long side of a horizontal, and under 550 pixels on the vertical myself, just to make sure the entire picture can fit into most browser windows. This should allow for a file size of less than 150kb as well. Remember, the larger the pixel count, the more enticing the file is to download for the viewers own purposes. As an example, I have one of Mark Cassino's bugs on my desktop now. This may bother some people who think their pictures shouldn't be used without permission (though I did thank him for it). William Robb
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
Actually, if one uses the Save for Web feature in PS, there is even more control over the quality of the final image. 100 steps in much smaller increments. I can sometimes see a difference between 100% and 80%. BTW, the Save for Web feature allows up to four (maybe more?) views of the image at different quality percentages, so you can see exactly how the image will look before making the final adjustment. shel Peter J. Alling wrote: When using Jpeg you can change the compression quality, in photoshop it is measured in a value from 0 to 12 others use a %. You can balance quality vs. file size. For web use I generally don't see a noticeable quality loss until the I'm well below 50% or a value of 6 on photoshop's scale. This varies from image to image some are more susceptible to visible degradation than others.
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
In a message dated 3/27/2004 10:13:49 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Actually, if one uses the Save for Web feature in PS, there is even more control over the quality of the final image. 100 steps in much smaller increments. I can sometimes see a difference between 100% and 80%. BTW, the Save for Web feature allows up to four (maybe more?) views of the image at different quality percentages, so you can see exactly how the image will look before making the final adjustment. shel I used save for the web feature in Elements and was unhappy with the results. Which means I'd rather tool them myself -- do any reduction myself. I have more control that way over the end quality as there are different reduction schemes and some are a lot better than others. And am pretty familiar doing image manipulation in PaintShop Pro (but not photos, graphic images. I guess one of these days I'll have to break down and get PhotoShop since PSP has no monitor profiling). Though Elements makes pretty good thumbnails. Marnie aka Doe I guess I could get an older version of PS cheap. Or cheaper.
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
Hmmm ... You can tool the pics yourself in PS 7.0. I'll have to check PS 6.0 to see if there's any difference. But I do all the sizing, cropping, etc before hand, then using S4W the file size and resolution are adjusted (not the image dimensions). Maybe elements is different than PS. shel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I used save for the web feature in Elements and was unhappy with the results. Which means I'd rather tool them myself -- do any reduction myself. I have more control that way over the end quality as there are different reduction schemes and some are a lot better than others. And am pretty familiar doing image manipulation in PaintShop Pro (but not photos, graphic images. I guess one of these days I'll have to break down and get PhotoShop since PSP has no monitor profiling). Though Elements makes pretty good thumbnails. Marnie aka Doe I guess I could get an older version of PS cheap. Or cheaper.
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
In a message dated 3/26/2004 4:58:34 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CSS is a great way to unify a web site, since you can make global changes to the look of the site by altering one file. As long as the browser supports it. Otherwise, your website defaults to the browser settings, which may not be so good. Javascript is a relatively simple programming language that can make web sites work more smoothly. If you are using a frameset, javascript is pretty much a necessity to control what each frame will do when a link is invoked. I'm a big fan of tables, since they can be used to hold 2 different things relative to each other (as an example, a picture and the caption below it), and is controllable by either a pixel count (not so good as it is screen size dependant for look) or by percentage (much better, as it no longer matters what the screen size is). Anyway, thats just what I think. William Robb I also strongly recommend CSS. One can make global changes easily, and format all of one's pages in one file. And there are lots of good CSS tutorials out there. Think someone has already recommended some. I converted a LOT of web pages I have in another venue, another forum, to CSS and found it relatively easy on the whole. And it makes have a LOT of pages 10X easier. I'd skip everything else, Javascript (no longer supported by Microsoft, by IE, but I think that is only the newer versions, I haven't really looked into it), and Flash, etc. Just do style sheets. It's also nice, if you can, to download browsers other than the one you have and do some test runs to find out how things look in different browsers. IE, Netscape, Mosaic, et all. Whatever you can find that you download for free. There will still be someone around who has an older browser which won't display things the way you have laid them out. But I figure if you cover 80-90% of people, that's the best you can do. Marnie aka Doe And definitely tables.
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
In a message dated 3/27/2004 10:29:32 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hmmm ... You can tool the pics yourself in PS 7.0. I'll have to check PS 6.0 to see if there's any difference. But I do all the sizing, cropping, etc before hand, then using S4W the file size and resolution are adjusted (not the image dimensions). Maybe elements is different than PS. shel Off-hand I can't go through the different reduction schemes without looking at the menus (I don't have it on the top of my head), but they all use (re)sampling techniques and some are better than others. I tend to use the best one that has the less loss and may create bigger files as a result. I am now going to have to do reduction looking at resultant file size as well as pixel dimensions and see what trade offs I need to make. If someone wants to go into the more technical details -- feel free. Marnie aka Doe
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
As long as we're on the subject... I've been doing a web page for my local organic food co-op and I'd like to get some feedback regarding browser compatibility. Cotty checked it out for me on his Mac and found a few peculiarities. I think I've fixed them but you never know. I powered up my SO's old Mac Powerbook and tested it in the latest Internet Explorer and Netscape 4.6 (I'm going to load a newer version of Netscape on the Mac this afternoon). On my Win2k machine I've checked it in Internet Explorer (5.5) , Mozilla (1.2.1) and Netscape 3.0(!) Only Netscape 3 gives any big problems; the JavaScript rollovers cause all kinds of trouble. But since JavaScript has changed so much since its introduction many JS sites give 3.0 fits. Netscape's own home page crashes Netscape 3 entirely! I thus assume than anyone who's even running 3.0 probably has JS turned off. The site is currently at http://216.92.182.162 (don't have DNS yet). Have a look for problems if you will. I've used CSS for everything but layout - CSS layout still causes too many compatibility problems with non-CSS browsers and even early implementations of CSS (read: Netscape 4.x) for my taste. Once again, that's http://216.92.182.162 Much thanks. -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
Strange, when I started out you gave me some useful advice. There are all kinds of ways to develop a website from hand coded, to Macromedia Dreamweaver and its ilk. I have basically stuck to hand coded, and simple. You can go through my pages and see how I have progressed the meanderings subdomain is the oldest code, then the journal, then the mainsite, graywolfphoto, and finally the presscamera site is the most recent (be warned that there are some things on it that are not finished, but were thrown up to get some content online). The thing about hand code is that it is the most time consuming way to set up a site, but the easiest to maintain because you know what you did, and it is readable. My site is about as basic in design as you can get and still show photographs. All of that takes up about 21MB, though a big chunk of that is the Press Camera Forum database which needs some customizing real soon now. My hosting service, Detail Hosting, provides 250MB for $5.95 a month. They provide all the services needed to run a business site on their servers. They have been down 24 hours twice that I know of since I started with them in September last year, both times because of denial of service attacks. Mine is not a high traffic site. Together the 4 websites together gets about 1700 visits a month (13,000 hits). There is code out there for free to do about anything you might want to do. The most useful to you will probably be automatic thumbnail generation and presentation software. You will probably want a database of your photos, and an online sales service (shopping cart secure payment software) also. One of the most useful tools for maintaining a site is grep. Grep is a Unix utility (versions for windows are available), and it's free, that allows you to do a search and replace across a bunch of files. For example if you change your email address you can use grep to do a search and replace on every page on your website in one operation. Hope this answers a few of your questions. -- Shel Belinkoff wrote: Hi ... My ISP allows me a fair amount of free space, but it's not enough for a really nice web site. So, being somewhat of a dummy here, what should I look for from an ISP in setting up a site, and what things should I be thinking about including. Naturally, it's all about photos, presenting them well, using the site as a way to present pics to some markets, and possible to sell from. What type of design features should I consider, and why? How about the underlying code? It's gotta be compatible with as many browsers as possible, fast loading, etc. Thoughts here? Who's doing this? Suggestions eagerly anticipated. shel -- graywolf http://graywolfphoto.com/graywolf.html
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
Dr E D F Williams wrote: 3) Make sure you can find and replace across multiple files before you start, I don't understand what you're trying to tell me. Find and replace? but you can find Java applets that make the job much easier all over the web. Java applets? What are they and why would I want them? shel
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
Hi Bill ... William Robb wrote: First thing, check with your isp and see if they will rent you some extra space. I can get more space from them ... Try to make all the links relative to the root directory, rather than server specific. This makes it much easier to write, and makes it portable in the event you change servers at some point. I think that's what I've been doing with the various pages I've put up over the years. Keep the coding as simple as possible, avoid scripts, and if you are not sure about browser compatibility, avoid all the fancy stuff. I recall a while back you mentioned that a lot of your family/ correspondees were using older browsers on slow connections. If this is still the case, avoid frames, CSS, javascript or any of the fancy Flash shite that is all the rage right now. I like simple ... it's all I know how to write at this point. Hate frames, but it's been suggested that CSS (Cascading Style Sheets?) is a good way to write code. I do want to avoid Flash at all costs God, do I hate that crap, especially on slow machines with dial-up connections. What exactly is javascript? I see it all over the place ... what does it do, what can it do, that makes so many people use it? shel
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
Leon Altoff wrote: On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 08:14:47 +0200, Dr E D F Williams wrote: 1) Keep it simple and use a style sheet, I like the idea of style sheets, but Internet Explorer version 6 does not fully support them - specifically you can use style sheets to create frame like pages that aren't actually frames, but IE won't display them correctly. I spent hours trying to find what was wrong with my code before I finally found this bit of information out Well, if IE6 doesn't support 'em, why the hell should I use 'em if the idea is to make the content readily available to as many people as possible. How much space do they offer? You can make a small website easily in 5 MB, 10 can make a good one and 20 can hold a lot. Right now I've got 10mb ... maybe more. I'm not sure if I get 10mb total or 10mb for each email address. However, the setup I now have doesn't allow for a domain name, which seems like an important consideration. Look around the web and see what you like and then copy it. Later on change it to suit your own style. Yeah, I've a list of sites that I like, but on some of them all the code is not accessible. Seems like it references some code somewhere else that I can't access. If you use frames if can be difficult to reference individual pages. I don't think I want to use frames ... If you use Java script some people will not bother using it. Still not sure what Java script is and what benefit it may offer. Doesn't seem like something I want unless it's needed for some specific function that I'm not aware of. Flash is flashy but not necessary and again a lot of people will not bother with your site. Not at all interested in Flash. My experiences using sites that have it have never been satisfactory. In terms of how much room you have you can look at the sites I have had something to do with. Will do ... I'll let you know what I think ... shel
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
graywolf wrote: Strange, when I started out you gave me some useful advice. That was so long ago, it seems. I'm still writing code in a similar fashion, which seems to be fine, although there are new browsers out there and new compliance standards. So I figure some updating is in order. There are all kinds of ways to develop a website from hand coded, to Macromedia Dreamweaver and its ilk. I have basically stuck to hand coded, and simple. You can go through my pages and see how I have progressed the meanderings subdomain is the oldest code I've seen your setup a couple of times ... There is code out there for free to do about anything you might want to do. The most useful to you will probably be automatic thumbnail generation and presentation software. Not sure exactly what you mean. Can you provide a name or two so I can put the suggestion in perspective? You will probably want a database of your photos, and an online sales service (shopping cart secure payment software) also. One of the most useful tools for maintaining a site is grep. Grep is a Unix utility (versions for windows are available), and it's free, that allows you to do a search and replace across a bunch of files. For example if you change your email address you can use grep to do a search and replace on every page on your website in one operation. Hope this answers a few of your questions. That last part - search and replace - is very helpful. Didn't know what it was when someone else used the term. Grep sounds like it's worth investigating. Tks! shel
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 01:09:24 -0800, Shel Belinkoff wrote: Leon Altoff wrote: I like the idea of style sheets, but Internet Explorer version 6 does not fully support them - specifically you can use style sheets to create frame like pages that aren't actually frames, but IE won't display them correctly. I spent hours trying to find what was wrong with my code before I finally found this bit of information out Well, if IE6 doesn't support 'em, why the hell should I use 'em if the idea is to make the content readily available to as many people as possible. Style sheets are good and MOSTLY supported by IE6. It just doesn't support what I want to do with them. Right now I've got 10mb ... maybe more. I'm not sure if I get 10mb total or 10mb for each email address. However, the setup I now have doesn't allow for a domain name, which seems like an important consideration. You will normally end up paying more for a domain name. It's more involved. though there are ways of doing it - which cost more money of course. Look around the web and see what you like and then copy it. Later on change it to suit your own style. Yeah, I've a list of sites that I like, but on some of them all the code is not accessible. Seems like it references some code somewhere else that I can't access. Style sheets and java scripts are often called files. You can load them by addressing them directly in the address bar. If you use frames if can be difficult to reference individual pages. I don't think I want to use frames ... I like frames for certain uses. It makes navigation easy, but the lack of direct addressing is a pain. If you use Java script some people will not bother using it. Still not sure what Java script is and what benefit it may offer. Doesn't seem like something I want unless it's needed for some specific function that I'm not aware of. You can basically do what ever you like. Leave cookies behind on the user's machine, all sorts of things. this is why a lot of people turn java script off, it can be a security hole. In terms of how much room you have you can look at the sites I have had something to do with. Will do ... I'll let you know what I think ... They are all basic, but they work. Leon http://www.bluering.org.au http://www.bluering.org.au/leon
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
When you need to change something on several htm pages; a link, or the size of a font in the header it's easier if you can do it all at once rather than have to edit each page one at a time. For example I *always* need to change the size of the font on the top of the htm pages generated by the gallery making software I use, the default that cannot be changed in the program itself, is far too big. If you have fifty or more of them it may take a long time. Java applets are little pieces of Java code that can do many things, for example flash a header or change something. I use one to select the picture displayed at random each time the main page is accessed. I have another that increments the counter each time a page is opened. Every page on my website has a hidden counter -- a bit of Java code on the bottom does the job. The counter statistics (Jelly) tell me who visited the page, when they did and how they got there -- and a lot of other things as well. Aside: It was very interesting to see the Directors of the Cement Company from Hell rushing in with their lawyers to try to find something in the site that they could use to get it shut down. There was nothing there of course because I had been careful. They accessed the pages more than 100 times in the first two days. Don ___ Dr E D F Williams http://personal.inet.fi/cool/don.williams Author's Web Site and Photo Gallery See Extra Pages 'The Cement Company from HELL!' Updated: August 15, 2003 Butters, you can't take Teddy's place. - Original Message - From: Shel Belinkoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:49 AM Subject: Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site Dr E D F Williams wrote: 3) Make sure you can find and replace across multiple files before you start, I don't understand what you're trying to tell me. Find and replace? but you can find Java applets that make the job much easier all over the web. Java applets? What are they and why would I want them? shel
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
inline Boros Attila wrote: Hello Shel, Friday, March 26, 2004, 11:09:24 AM, you wrote: SB Leon Altoff wrote: On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 08:14:47 +0200, Dr E D F Williams wrote: 1) Keep it simple and use a style sheet, I like the idea of style sheets, but Internet Explorer version 6 does not fully support them - specifically you can use style sheets to create frame like pages that aren't actually frames, but IE won't display them correctly. I spent hours trying to find what was wrong with my code before I finally found this bit of information out SB Well, if IE6 doesn't support 'em, why the hell should I use SB 'em if the idea is to make the content readily available to SB as many people as possible. CSS (Cascading Style Sheets) are a very good idea, to separate the content form the formatting. You just write your HTML plain simple, just headers, paragraphs, links, etc. Then you write CSS (I prefer to keep it in a separate file, but you can put it inside the .html file) and specify how should it look like. All the fancy look, green links, yellow headers, font types and sizes, paragraph alignment spacing, in a word all the layout of the page. The good thing is, if you want to change the layout later, you don't have to touch the content at all. The trick is, as Leon wrote Internet Explorer version 6 does not fully support them. Note here the word fully. You can find various tables on the net about which browser support which CSS tag, but it's best to test it out for yourself. If you find a tag which the browser doesn't support, or you don't like the result, then don't use that tag. Also it is a good idea to test at least with IE and Mozilla. For Mac users, ask Cotty which browser they use:) (I know very little about Macs.) If you need help with CSS or HTML, contact me offlist, I'll do the best I can. Please have a look at these links: The CSS homepage: http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/ it's rather technical, but don't be scared, you don't have to read the whole thing, just take a look at (you may read it later, if you want to master CSS). CSS primer: http://wendypeck.com/css101.html to make an idea what CSS is all about. CSS tutorial: http://www.w3schools.com/css/default.asp is a good place to start, with examples. http://www.css-discuss.org/ is a great resource:) I am using style sheets on my graywolfphoto site but only for backgrounds. In a way grep (gnu recursive editing program?) obliviates the need for them. They seem to be mostly a windows work around, and as such complicate things rather than simplify them. A Windows version of grep can be found at: http://www.wingrep.com/ SB Still not sure what Java script is and what benefit it may SB offer. Doesn't seem like something I want unless it's SB needed for some specific function that I'm not aware of. Well, if you don't know what it is for, then you really don't need it:) JavaScript is a scripting language developed by Netscape to add interactivity to web documents, such as live clocks, rollover effects, scrollers, form validations, etc. JavaScript differs from most other programming languages in that it is relatively easy to master, even for people who have absolutely no programming experiences whatsoever. I wouldn't call it a 'programming language', after all, it's just scripting:) If you like to keep things simple, I think you don't really need JavaScript. If you are curios, you can find dozens of examples and tutorials on the net. Javascript is a subset of Java which is an html scripting language. Its problem is that it run browser side (on the users machine). PHP is also an html scripting language, but it runs server side. The commercial website builders seem to prefer Javascript (remember they also like Macromedia Flash a browser side graphical language). The non-commercial crowd much prefer PHP. Boris Liberman gave me a lot of information about PHP, but I never got around to doing anything with it. Now I need to get into it as the Discussion Forum on my presscamera site is programed in it and needs to be cutomized. Also the is an immense amount of free pre-written software in it. I is design to link to relational databases as well. http://www.php.net/ is the place to start. -- graywolf http://graywolfphoto.com/graywolf.html
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
Shel, I've got mindspring which is a part of earthlink. You get 10 megabytes of web space for each e-mail address. You can have up to 7 or 8 free e-mail addresses I forget which. I've reserved 70 meg of space I'm using about 1/3 of it right now. You can put all of your code in one area and link to images and resources in others or keep subsections with resources and code together, or use some other arbatrary method. Just plan it out in advance. Unless you need CGI support, which I don't think they support for the base website, I can't think of any reason to rent more space than you already have. Shel Belinkoff wrote: Leon Altoff wrote: On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 08:14:47 +0200, Dr E D F Williams wrote: 1) Keep it simple and use a style sheet, I like the idea of style sheets, but Internet Explorer version 6 does not fully support them - specifically you can use style sheets to create frame like pages that aren't actually frames, but IE won't display them correctly. I spent hours trying to find what was wrong with my code before I finally found this bit of information out Well, if IE6 doesn't support 'em, why the hell should I use 'em if the idea is to make the content readily available to as many people as possible. How much space do they offer? You can make a small website easily in 5 MB, 10 can make a good one and 20 can hold a lot. Right now I've got 10mb ... maybe more. I'm not sure if I get 10mb total or 10mb for each email address. However, the setup I now have doesn't allow for a domain name, which seems like an important consideration. Look around the web and see what you like and then copy it. Later on change it to suit your own style. Yeah, I've a list of sites that I like, but on some of them all the code is not accessible. Seems like it references some code somewhere else that I can't access. If you use frames if can be difficult to reference individual pages. I don't think I want to use frames ... If you use Java script some people will not bother using it. Still not sure what Java script is and what benefit it may offer. Doesn't seem like something I want unless it's needed for some specific function that I'm not aware of. Flash is flashy but not necessary and again a lot of people will not bother with your site. Not at all interested in Flash. My experiences using sites that have it have never been satisfactory. In terms of how much room you have you can look at the sites I have had something to do with. Will do ... I'll let you know what I think ... shel
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
Frames, for those who are wondering are those non-scrolling sections you get on many webpages. If you are on a page where the navigation section does not scroll with the main text, they are using frames. Frames do nice things, but they also seem to cause problems, so are basically a trade off. Anyone who wants the maximum number of folks to be able to look at their website are best off if they use basic html. Every feature you add is going to cut out some of your users. I for instance do not allow foreign scripts to run on my machine, so if you use javascript, flash, etc. I am not going to be able to look at your webpages. The problem is that people who hire commercial programmers have no idea about these things and are fascinated by gee-whiz stuff, so even if they know better the commercial guys have to do it. -- Mark Roberts wrote: Dr E D F Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nielsen's remarks about frames are way out of date. That stuff was written many years ago. Frames are quite useful these days. As far as making them work I've not had trouble and I'm no expert. Well ... no more trouble than the other stuff anyway. Frames still make it difficult to bookmark sub-pages (impossible foe less-experienced web users) and give search engine spiders trouble. -- graywolf http://graywolfphoto.com/graywolf.html
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
Use grep. Takes about 2 minutes to do a search and replace across 50 pages. Dr E D F Williams wrote: When you need to change something on several htm pages; a link, or the size of a font in the header it's easier if you can do it all at once rather than have to edit each page one at a time. For example I *always* need to change the size of the font on the top of the htm pages generated by the gallery making software I use, the default that cannot be changed in the program itself, is far too big. If you have fifty or more of them it may take a long time. -- graywolf http://graywolfphoto.com/graywolf.html
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
That is used with frames. A target is basically the window you want to pop up. BTW, the filename or directory starting with an underscore (_) is used by many programmers to indicate something they do not want webcrawlers to search. One line in robots.txt like Disallow: _* tells them not to search anything that begins with an underscore. -- Shel Belinkoff wrote: While looking through the code on a few web sites, I came across this, which I don't understand. Can someone explain what this means or references: a href=main.html target=_top It was followed with the code for img src shel -- graywolf http://graywolfphoto.com/graywolf.html
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dr E D F Williams wrote: When you need to change something on several htm pages; a link, or the size of a font in the header it's easier if you can do it all at once rather than have to edit each page one at a time Use grep. Takes about 2 minutes to do a search and replace across 50 pages. I often use the free EditPad text editor (Windows only - sorry Cotty!) for doing my HTML. You can do a single find-and-replace operation across all open documents - and I've had over 100 open at once on occasion. If you can't find it on the web you can download it from my web page at http://www.robertstech.com/editpad.zip Another way of getting the maintenance advantages of frame navigation without the drawbacks of frames is with the SHTML #include virtual technique (if your host supports SHTML). Personally, I prefer to keep the HTML simple and do global find/replace updates with EditPad or Alaire HomeSite. -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.robertstech.com/editpad.zip Whoops! Make that: http://www.robertstech.com/files/editpad.zip -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
I thought I had a bunch of this stuff in my archives, but can not find it right now. It was basically stuff written in PHP. However, a google seach for php photo will bring up lots of references. Shel Belinkoff wrote: There is code out there for free to do about anything you might want to do. The most useful to you will probably be automatic thumbnail generation and presentation software. Not sure exactly what you mean. Can you provide a name or two so I can put the suggestion in perspective? -- graywolf http://graywolfphoto.com/graywolf.html
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Shel Belinkoff wrote: Can someone explain what this means or references: a href=main.html target=_top That is used with frames. A target is basically the window you want to pop up. More specifically, target tells your web browser *where* you want the new page (the target page) to open. target=_top opens the new page in the current browser as the main page: Outside all frames even if you're currently in a framed page. In other words, target=_top jumps you out of any frames and loads the target page as the only one in the browser. target=new will open a new (additional) browser window and load the target page in it. This is considered poor netiquette (see mistakes 1 and 2 in http://www.useit.com/alertbox/990530.html) and I personally find it so annoying that I use a web proxy set to prevent my browser executing the target=new command and opening new browser windows on my system. -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I thought I had a bunch of this stuff in my archives, but can not find it right now. It was basically stuff written in PHP. However, a google seach for php photo will bring up lots of references. I think there are a couple of free apps that will help with photo web publishing on my software page http://www.robertstech.com/pixel/software.htm -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
- Original Message - From: Shel Belinkoff Subject: Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site I like simple ... it's all I know how to write at this point. Hate frames, but it's been suggested that CSS (Cascading Style Sheets?) is a good way to write code. I do want to avoid Flash at all costs God, do I hate that crap, especially on slow machines with dial-up connections. What exactly is javascript? I see it all over the place ... what does it do, what can it do, that makes so many people use it? CSS is a great way to unify a web site, since you can make global changes to the look of the site by altering one file. As long as the browser supports it. Otherwise, your website defaults to the browser settings, which may not be so good. Javascript is a relatively simple programming language that can make web sites work more smoothly. If you are using a frameset, javascript is pretty much a necessity to control what each frame will do when a link is invoked. I'm a big fan of tables, since they can be used to hold 2 different things relative to each other (as an example, a picture and the caption below it), and is controllable by either a pixel count (not so good as it is screen size dependant for look) or by percentage (much better, as it no longer matters what the screen size is). Anyway, thats just what I think. William Robb
Re: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
Just to chime in Windows 2000 was against all odds a stable reliable OS. Too bad most of my hardware's drivers won't run under it. Hell I can't even get my HP printer to be recognized by it. Mark Roberts wrote: Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I often use the free EditPad text editor (Windows only - sorry Cotty!) Mark, I know it's tripe, but no need to apologise for Windows. HAR! Unfashionable as it may be, I'm rather impressed with Windows 2000 (I won't have anything to do with XP). It's Microsoft's office applications that I detest.
RE: OT? Advice wanted for setting up a web site
I'm a big fan of tables, since they can be used to hold 2 different things relative to each other CSS can do this even better. I'm in the middle of laying out my second site in CSS. You wind up with a lot less code on each page, because the tag properties are stored in the CSS file, which only needs to be downloaded once. I'm also finding it easier to sort out where things are in the code because I'm not wading through all those table tags anymore. Getting it to work across most browsers can be a little trickier, but I've found it worth it to learn it. (Of course it's my job so I haven't had much choice! ;) Amita
