Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On May 22, 2012, at 13:59, John Sessoms wrote: Yeah, I could see it being in between K-3 K-z, but I just don't see it as the K-5's successor. From the specs, the only RAW format it offers is DNG. K-5: RAW (PEF, DNG), JPG (EXIF 2.21), DCF 2.0 compliant, DPOF, PIM III K-r: RAW (PEF, DNG), JPG (EXIF 2.21), DCF 2.0, DPOF, Print Image Matching III K-30: RAW (DNG), JPG (EXIF 2.3), DCF 2.0 compliant, DPOF, PIM III ..which brings to mind this question: Why bother with the PEF RAW format at all anymore? Is there a single benefit? -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
I saw no advantage to PEF and my Pentax cameras are all set to shoot DNG. I have a vague memory that there might have been a difference in buffering between the two but I wasn't worried about it. One of the minor annoyances of shooting with my non-Pentax cameras is having to do the extra step of converting to DNG. gs George Sinos gsi...@gmail.com www.georgesphotos.net plus.georgesinos.com On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 9:00 AM, Charles Robinson charl...@visi.com wrote: On May 22, 2012, at 13:59, John Sessoms wrote: Yeah, I could see it being in between K-3 K-z, but I just don't see it as the K-5's successor. From the specs, the only RAW format it offers is DNG. K-5: RAW (PEF, DNG), JPG (EXIF 2.21), DCF 2.0 compliant, DPOF, PIM III K-r: RAW (PEF, DNG), JPG (EXIF 2.21), DCF 2.0, DPOF, Print Image Matching III K-30: RAW (DNG), JPG (EXIF 2.3), DCF 2.0 compliant, DPOF, PIM III ..which brings to mind this question: Why bother with the PEF RAW format at all anymore? Is there a single benefit? -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
Charles Robinson wrote: On May 22, 2012, at 13:59, John Sessoms wrote: Yeah, I could see it being in between K-3 K-z, but I just don't see it as the K-5's successor. From the specs, the only RAW format it offers is DNG. K-5: RAW (PEF, DNG), JPG (EXIF 2.21), DCF 2.0 compliant, DPOF, PIM III K-r: RAW (PEF, DNG), JPG (EXIF 2.21), DCF 2.0, DPOF, Print Image Matching III K-30: RAW (DNG), JPG (EXIF 2.3), DCF 2.0 compliant, DPOF, PIM III ..which brings to mind this question: Why bother with the PEF RAW format at all anymore? Is there a single benefit? Nope. It's gone and good riddance as far as I'm concerned. -- Mark Roberts - Photography Multimedia www.robertstech.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
From: Matthew Hunt On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 12:35 PM, Charles Robinson charl...@visi.com wrote: I wonder what the downside(s) would be. ?For starters, it doesn't look like the mode dial on top has a lock. ?And I'm not sure there is an LCD display on the top... but what other things appear to be missing? I just started making a list. I welcome additions. It's based on this leaked set of specifications: http://stdw.us/J8KF5j K-30 relative to K-5: + video improvements (H.264, frame rates, etc.) + focus peaking + mysterious AF improvements (i in SAFOX version number) + AA battery support - ISO 51200 (K-30 = 25600) - top LCD - no 1/8000 shutter (K-30 = 1/6000) - slower FPS (but only slightly, 6 FPS, not 4 FPS as previously leaked) - 14 bit ADC? (guess based on re-using the K-01 sensor processor) TBD: AF fine tuning, full IS capabilities (sensor shift for composition adjustment, rotation axis, O-GPS1 astrotracer support), intervalometer, level, quietness... what else? Looks more like the K-r replacement to me. Also, in case anyone hasn't already found it before I did, DPReview: http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/05/21/Pentax-launchaes-K-30-weather-sealed-mid-level-DSLR -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 10:24 AM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: Looks more like the K-r replacement to me. I expect a true K-r replacement is still coming; we've seen leaked marketing materials for a K-z. With WR, 100% pentaprism, and two control wheels, I don't think the K-30 can be called a K-r replacement. I think it will slot in between the K-z and K-3 (or whatever the K-5's replacement is). -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On 22 May 2012 10:24, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: Looks more like the K-r replacement to me. Also, in case anyone hasn't already found it before I did, DPReview: http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/05/21/Pentax-launchaes-K-30-weather-sealed-mid-level-DSLR K-r? Now way! It's clearly a K200D with souped up engine and wheels. —M. \/\/o/\/\ -- http://WorldOfMiserere.com http://EnticingTheLight.com A Quest for Photographic Enlightenment -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
From: Matthew Hunt On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 10:24 AM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: Looks more like the K-r replacement to me. I expect a true K-r replacement is still coming; we've seen leaked marketing materials for a K-z. With WR, 100% pentaprism, and two control wheels, I don't think the K-30 can be called a K-r replacement. I think it will slot in between the K-z and K-3 (or whatever the K-5's replacement is). Yeah, I could see it being in between K-3 K-z, but I just don't see it as the K-5's successor. From the specs, the only RAW format it offers is DNG. K-5: RAW (PEF, DNG), JPG (EXIF 2.21), DCF 2.0 compliant, DPOF, PIM III K-r: RAW (PEF, DNG), JPG (EXIF 2.21), DCF 2.0, DPOF, Print Image Matching III K-30: RAW (DNG), JPG (EXIF 2.3), DCF 2.0 compliant, DPOF, PIM III -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
Boris, You better start thinking about markets for your product. The best ideas for new products come from the customers. Listen to how they use your products and design the next generation. Don't leave all the fun to the Industrial Designers, blah! :-b Regards, Bob S. On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 10:50 PM, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: On 5/18/2012 20:13, Bob Sullivan wrote: I believe that the engineer with a new toy is always thinking 'How could I sell a million of these?' I'm an engineer and I don't think like this, Bob. Instead I let to think so the marketing people in my company. Also the problem (in my eyes at least) here is that in terms of pixels there is only so much you can do with them. Few things come to mind - so if you have oh so many pixels you can: * crop them as you see fit and still get a decent picture * print really big enlargements * if you do virtual 3D, your worlds will be more zoomable in, in a manner of speaking That's about it. So the comparison with what Bill Gates said about PC RAM that someone here made looks invalid to me. PC RAM in particular and PC in general can do so much more so that adding RAM enables you to do great many various things. Various being the keyword here. As for pixels I am not so sure. Although I know that you're a car enthusiast, Bob, I still think that cars can be a valid analogy. If you live in NYC or Chicago or Tel Aviv for that matter, do you really absolutely certainly need the likes of modern sports cars? Is acceleration from 0 to 60 MPH in 5 sec going to be a decisive factor for you vs the car that does so in 10 sec. In theory it may serve you well if you need to accelerate to escape a predicament on the road (*). But in the big city such a situation is possibly improbable anyway. The smaller, more frugal or less polluting engine is an entirely different story, and even more so in the big cities... So MP count has to serve a purpose. And although in certain cases it does serve a purpose, it is unlikely to serve such a purpose for everyone uniformly. Hence I believe that there has to be enough pixels for 99% of the people out there, and 24 MP on APS-C sensor is just too many of them, little pesky pixels... Boris (*) It may be argued that if you get into such a situation or get close to it every now and then, you better not to drive at all or drive a slow car so as to force you to less aggressive driving. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
one of my brothers was rather scathing about my Leica because it doesn't have as many megapixels as his phone. A lot of people don't seem to realise that there are megapixels and there are mgeapixels. Mine are all first cold-pressed extra virgin long-staple Egyptian tree-ripened, shade-grown, free-range organic megapixels, whereas he got his from a bloke in Woolwich Market. With newer cameras having so many more megapixels, rendering the older cameras obsolete, at what point do I have to start throwing away the photos I took with a 6MP camera because they are no loner any good? What about 12 or 14MP? You were supposed to start yesterday. Wait! Stop! Don't throw those photos away. Just take a shot of them with the new higher MP camera. Voila. Instant higher resolution. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On May 18, 2012, at 2:56, Jaume Lahuerta wrote: - Mensaje original - De: Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com With cautious optimism diluted with a small portion of educatedness I submit to the court that I am starting to get a feeling of deja vu from mid 2000's when we had plethora of cameras all sporting the very same 6 MP sensor... Anyone else care to join me in my deja vu? I woud say that, after the 6mpix era, Pentax is using the same sensor in 2-3 bodies: 10 Mpix in K10D, K200D and K-m 12 Mpix in K-x and k-r 14 Mpix in K20D and K-7 16 Mpix in K-5 and K-30 (and k-01 but this is a different category for me). So it should be enough for this sensor... Does anyone else look at the K30 as a potential upgrade from the K7? It looks to me like a less-expensive way to transition up to the better ISO performance of the K5 without quite the financial hit. I wonder what the downside(s) would be. For starters, it doesn't look like the mode dial on top has a lock. And I'm not sure there is an LCD display on the top... but what other things appear to be missing? -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 12:35 PM, Charles Robinson charl...@visi.com wrote: I wonder what the downside(s) would be. For starters, it doesn't look like the mode dial on top has a lock. And I'm not sure there is an LCD display on the top... but what other things appear to be missing? I just started making a list. I welcome additions. It's based on this leaked set of specifications: http://stdw.us/J8KF5j K-30 relative to K-5: + video improvements (H.264, frame rates, etc.) + focus peaking + mysterious AF improvements (i in SAFOX version number) + AA battery support - ISO 51200 (K-30 = 25600) - top LCD - no 1/8000 shutter (K-30 = 1/6000) - slower FPS (but only slightly, 6 FPS, not 4 FPS as previously leaked) - 14 bit ADC? (guess based on re-using the K-01 sensor processor) TBD: AF fine tuning, full IS capabilities (sensor shift for composition adjustment, rotation axis, O-GPS1 astrotracer support), intervalometer, level, quietness... what else? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
on 2012-05-21 10:35 Charles Robinson wrote Does anyone else look at the K30 as a potential upgrade from the K7? unless it has major advantages, or is priced around $600, i would probably choose a price-reduced K5 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
on 2012-05-20 21:50 Boris Liberman wrote Although I know that you're a car enthusiast, Bob, I still think that cars can be a valid analogy. If you live in NYC or Chicago or Tel Aviv for that matter, do you really absolutely certainly need the likes of modern sports cars? Is acceleration from 0 to 60 MPH in 5 sec going to be a decisive factor for you vs the car that does so in 10 sec. In theory it may serve you well if you need to accelerate to escape a predicament on the road (*). But in the big city such a situation is possibly improbable anyway. The smaller, more frugal or less polluting engine is an entirely different story, and even more so in the big cities... having recently sat in an Audi S3 while a friend did some rather dramatic driving in central Washington, DC, i think some people find an urban benefit for massive acceleration … but most probably don't, and in that the analogy to cameras is probably apt (*) It may be argued that if you get into such a situation or get close to it every now and then, you better not to drive at all or drive a slow car so as to force you to less aggressive driving. in my friend's case, i worry for him and i do wish he drove a slower car -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
on 2012-05-21 8:32 Tom C wrote Wait! Stop! Don't throw those photos away. Just take a shot of them with the new higher MP camera. Voila. Instant higher resolution. those who don't follow this advice will regret it — they won't be able to show their grandchildren what pixels looked like -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On 5/21/2012 16:01, Bob Sullivan wrote: Boris, You better start thinking about markets for your product. The best ideas for new products come from the customers. Listen to how they use your products and design the next generation. Don't leave all the fun to the Industrial Designers, blah! :-b Regards, Bob S. Well, I am in no managerial position or even close to one. So as a Dilbert of sorts I will agree with what you say but as usual do nothing in this regard... :-) Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On 5/21/2012 20:24, steve harley wrote: having recently sat in an Audi S3 while a friend did some rather dramatic driving in central Washington, DC, i think some people find an urban benefit for massive acceleration … but most probably don't, and in that the analogy to cameras is probably apt Well, I suppose that a proper race driver can even do this with certain degree of safety. Such drivers would probably buy this Nikon D800 'cause they actually know how to drive it. in my friend's case, i worry for him and i do wish he drove a slower car Please pass to your friend my wishes for his safety. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
Judging from the rumoured spec I would say that K30 pretty much replaces K-5 whereupon K-5's successor has to be somewhat massive, may be even full frame. At least this is what I personally would find logical from technical point of view. On 5/21/2012 19:51, Matthew Hunt wrote: On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 12:35 PM, Charles Robinsoncharl...@visi.com wrote: I wonder what the downside(s) would be. For starters, it doesn't look like the mode dial on top has a lock. And I'm not sure there is an LCD display on the top... but what other things appear to be missing? I just started making a list. I welcome additions. It's based on this leaked set of specifications: http://stdw.us/J8KF5j K-30 relative to K-5: + video improvements (H.264, frame rates, etc.) + focus peaking + mysterious AF improvements (i in SAFOX version number) + AA battery support - ISO 51200 (K-30 = 25600) - top LCD - no 1/8000 shutter (K-30 = 1/6000) - slower FPS (but only slightly, 6 FPS, not 4 FPS as previously leaked) - 14 bit ADC? (guess based on re-using the K-01 sensor processor) TBD: AF fine tuning, full IS capabilities (sensor shift for composition adjustment, rotation axis, O-GPS1 astrotracer support), intervalometer, level, quietness... what else? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 2:06 PM, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: Judging from the rumoured spec I would say that K30 pretty much replaces K-5 whereupon K-5's successor has to be somewhat massive, may be even full frame. At least this is what I personally would find logical from technical point of view. Yes, I think the K-5 or K-30 question that's being asked a lot right now will only be relevant for a short period of overlap. I look forward to seeing the K-5's successor. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
My view is not that a higher MP image makes an image better. It's that it has the potential to make it more versatile, and possibly better based on the end use of the image. My thoughts exactly, although for most amateur photogs, with a printed image being the ultimate use of all those pixels and with 13 X 19 printers the most reasonably priced large print makers, 16 to 24 MP is probably a reasonable limit - I know it is for me although I've made very good images that I've sold as prints, which were taken by the ist* D. Kenneth Waller http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller - Original Message - From: Tom C caka...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body My son is starting his photographic career with a 4MP camera. I'm sorry folks, it's nothing to do with MP, it's all to do with attitude and results. Cheers, Cotty I beg to differ with you in some respects. I'm probably parsing words and what was unstated. :) I agree that attitude and results trump all. I've captured great images with a Fuji plastic-lens disposable and a .3MP Sony Mavica on floppy disk. My own personal motto is 'Composition trumps all'. A technically perfectly exposed and rendered image is still distateful if the composition does not inspire the viewer with some degree of excitement or astethic appreciation (at least as far as my preferred genres go). If the image doesn't start with a vision of what one is hoping to achieve, it's unlikely it will match the photographer's aspirations. So I agree with that sentiment, that MP is not the most important consideration. However, I'm sure you wouldn't argue that, with rare exception, professionals in the field strive for the best image, and and usually with the best possible tools at their disposal. My images captured on a disposable camera, or on a 'lower' resolution sensor only go so far. I can tell you I wish my 6MP *ist D images had been taken with a 14MP K20D or K7, or higher. It often depends on what the end use of the image is and the media on which it's displayed, n'est pas? Web, small print, vs, portrait, vs., wall hanging. Taking that into consideration, generally, the higher MP the better. That's why larger film sizes were generally considered better than smaller formats. Practicality, price, ease of shooting, transportation, etc., tended to make 35mm the 'every man's' compromise. Still, many aspired to move to a larger format. Unfortunately for me, that happened within months of the first Pentax DSLR. My view is not that a higher MP image makes an image better. It's that it has the potential to make it more versatile, and possibly better based on the end use of the image. Tom C. (too many words) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
The K-5/7 and the K-r were a bit retro, the *ist-D[x] and K*D and K2000/Kx cameras were a bit plastic blob modern, the K30 looks 1950s odd angles Alien with the K-5 grip grafted on. I hope they aren't going for high design because they're missing it by a mile. I'm still saving my pennies for a K-5 at it's end of life close out price. On 5/16/2012 6:27 PM, Miserere wrote: Better photos: http://photorumors.com/2012/05/16/a-better-picture-of-the-pentax-k-30/ I've been critical of Pentax recently (say the last 3 years?) but this is a great move. Why? - They get to reuse the 16MP Sony sensor which they've squeezed great IQ out of for the K-5. It might also be a cheaper sensor now because it's old technology. - An entry-level body for $700-800 is a good price given the current climate. - Weather Sealing! Awesome move at this price point. - 2 e-dials!!! Can't stress enough how much I like this in any type of body (entry-level or professional). - 100% viewfinder. H...this seems strange, as I expected a pentamirror VF given the smaller size of the hump. Maybe it's the first pentamirror VF that doesn't look like a tunnel? When I saw the VF coverage of 100% my first thought was EVF...the K30 is mirrorless!, but then PF says it's got 11 AF points, which would mean it's an optical VF, and thus not mirrorless. But I wonder... In any case, I think this camera is going to sell well to the crowd who didn't want to splurge on a K-5, and to the other crowd who *did* splurge on a K-5 and want a 2nd body. What I don't know is how many K30's they'll sell at $800 if the K-5 is $999, so they either raise the price of the K-5 back up to $1,200 again or lover the K30 price to $700. Anyone else feeling good about the K30? —M. \/\/o/\/\ -- http://WorldOfMiserere.com http://EnticingTheLight.com A Quest for Photographic Enlightenment On 16 May 2012 16:21, Jeffery Smithjsmith...@gmail.com wrote: Pretty crummy portrayal of the camera (image-wise). But anything from Pentax with a mirror and a K mount is good by me. Jeffery On May 16, 2012, at 3:17 PM, Steven Desjardins wrote: From our friends at Pentax Forums: http://www.pentaxforums.com/news/pentax-k30-new-intro-level-dslr.html -- Steve Desjardins -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Don't lose heart! They might want to cut it out, and they'll want to avoid a lengthily search. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
More photos and specs: http://photorumors.com/2012/05/21/additional-images-of-the-pentax-k-30/ —M. \/\/o/\/\ -- http://WorldOfMiserere.com http://EnticingTheLight.com A Quest for Photographic Enlightenment On 16 May 2012 16:17, Steven Desjardins drd1...@gmail.com wrote: From our friends at Pentax Forums: http://www.pentaxforums.com/news/pentax-k30-new-intro-level-dslr.html -- Steve Desjardins -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body (No longer a rumor)
It's for sale now (pre-order): http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENEN=16865%204811IsNodeId=1name=Pre-order -- Mark Roberts - Photography Multimedia www.robertstech.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On May 21, 2012, at 16:14, Miserere wrote: More photos and specs: http://photorumors.com/2012/05/21/additional-images-of-the-pentax-k-30/ That sure is one heck of a tall built-in flash! No top LCD. I'd miss that, but I wonder by how much? Handgrip looks uncomfortable from the top.. and I'd sure like to see the back of that camera! (Does anyone know when it's going to be officially announced?) -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body (No longer a rumor)
Heh. NewEgg scooped the PentaxForums countdown clock. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 5:29 PM, Charles Robinson charl...@visi.com wrote: Handgrip looks uncomfortable from the top.. and I'd sure like to see the back of that camera! Newegg has the pics. (Way to break embargo, Newegg!) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16830184166 (Does anyone know when it's going to be officially announced?) In 25 minutes, I think. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body re:MPs
MPixels dont matter? The old its not the size of the boat, its the motion of the ocean myth. Perpetrated by those with small boats. - J.C.O'Connell hifis...@gate.net - -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body re:MPs
On May 19, 2012, at 11:48 PM, J.C. O'Connell wrote: MPixels dont matter? The old its not the size of the boat, its the motion of the ocean myth. Perpetrated by those with small boats. It's not that MPixels don't matter, it's just that they aren't the only thing that matters. Resolution, Dynamic range, cost ... Pick two. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On May 19, 2012, at 11:36 PM, Bob W wrote: A lot of people don't seem to realise that there are megapixels and there are mgeapixels. Mine are all first cold-pressed extra virgin long-staple Egyptian tree-ripened, shade-grown, free-range organic megapixels, whereas he got his from a bloke in Woolwich Market. Is mgeapixel Egyptian for megapixel? Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On 19/5/12, Tom C, discombobulated, unleashed: Tom C. (too many words) But wise words ! -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche -- http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
From: Larry Colen On May 19, 2012, at 4:36 AM, Bob W wrote: [...] I take the general point you and others are making: many/most purchasers don't know what they are doing, and they will be overly impressed by whatever facts and figures the advertisers and sales persons are throwing out. But the MP arms race will peak soon, if it hasn't already. stan one of my brothers was rather scathing about my Leica because it doesn't have as many megapixels as his phone. A lot of people don't seem to realise that there are megapixels and there are mgeapixels. Mine are all first cold-pressed extra virgin long-staple Egyptian tree-ripened, shade-grown, free-range organic megapixels, whereas he got his from a bloke in Woolwich Market. With newer cameras having so many more megapixels, rendering the older cameras obsolete, at what point do I have to start throwing away the photos I took with a 6MP camera because they are no loner any good? What about 12 or 14MP? You were supposed to start yesterday. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
A lot of people don't seem to realise that there are megapixels and there are mgeapixels. Mine are all first cold-pressed extra virgin long-staple Egyptian tree-ripened, shade-grown, free-range organic megapixels, whereas he got his from a bloke in Woolwich Market. Is mgeapixel Egyptian for megapixel? it's a hieroglanagram. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
Oh, that makes sense. So that if this new camera is mid-range model and the last one (K-5, K-01, this new thing) to use 16 MP sensor, then it will all sum up nicely. But if K-5 successor still uses this sensor, it is no good, methinks... But I digress - let's just wait and see. On 5/18/2012 10:56, Jaume Lahuerta wrote: I woud say that, after the 6mpix era, Pentax is using the same sensor in 2-3 bodies: 10 Mpix in K10D, K200D and K-m 12 Mpix in K-x and k-r 14 Mpix in K20D and K-7 16 Mpix in K-5 and K-30 (and k-01 but this is a different category for me). So it should be enough for this sensor... Regards, Jaume -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On 5/18/2012 20:13, Bob Sullivan wrote: I believe that the engineer with a new toy is always thinking 'How could I sell a million of these?' I'm an engineer and I don't think like this, Bob. Instead I let to think so the marketing people in my company. Also the problem (in my eyes at least) here is that in terms of pixels there is only so much you can do with them. Few things come to mind - so if you have oh so many pixels you can: * crop them as you see fit and still get a decent picture * print really big enlargements * if you do virtual 3D, your worlds will be more zoomable in, in a manner of speaking That's about it. So the comparison with what Bill Gates said about PC RAM that someone here made looks invalid to me. PC RAM in particular and PC in general can do so much more so that adding RAM enables you to do great many various things. Various being the keyword here. As for pixels I am not so sure. Although I know that you're a car enthusiast, Bob, I still think that cars can be a valid analogy. If you live in NYC or Chicago or Tel Aviv for that matter, do you really absolutely certainly need the likes of modern sports cars? Is acceleration from 0 to 60 MPH in 5 sec going to be a decisive factor for you vs the car that does so in 10 sec. In theory it may serve you well if you need to accelerate to escape a predicament on the road (*). But in the big city such a situation is possibly improbable anyway. The smaller, more frugal or less polluting engine is an entirely different story, and even more so in the big cities... So MP count has to serve a purpose. And although in certain cases it does serve a purpose, it is unlikely to serve such a purpose for everyone uniformly. Hence I believe that there has to be enough pixels for 99% of the people out there, and 24 MP on APS-C sensor is just too many of them, little pesky pixels... Boris (*) It may be argued that if you get into such a situation or get close to it every now and then, you better not to drive at all or drive a slow car so as to force you to less aggressive driving. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On 5/18/2012 18:19, Darren Addy wrote: Some of you in this discussion remind me of Bill Gates and his (in)famous (alleged) quote regarding computer RAM: 640K ought to be enough for anybody. Whether he actually said it or not is irrelevant to this discussion - I think with hindsight we'd all agree that anyone who might have said such a thing would have to be considered the opposite of visionary (not to mention REALITY). Similarly, thinking that a certain number of pixels on a sensor is enough and that anything else is simply driven by the marketing department (as if that department is irrelevant to a company's growth, let alone survival) is similarly the opposite of reality. Darren, I respectfully disagree with you. I wrote why in my response to Bob S in another message in the same thread. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On 5/20/2012 01:31, Cotty wrote: My son is starting his photographic career with a 4MP camera. I'm sorry folks, it's nothing to do with MP, it's all to do with attitude and results. Well, up to certain extent I agree, Cotty. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
One of my nephews is doing his PhD on organic LEDs which we will essentially be able to paint on large surfaces for practically no cost. Digital displays are going to become enormous and ubiquitous and very high resolution. You need to be thinking of your entire wall and more being a high-res display showing your pictures. The slide show from Hell. The porn companies will be having, er, orgasms. They're probably funding the research. B I wonder if it will be touch screen? wipe-clean. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On 19/05/2012 08:25, Bob W wrote: One of my nephews is doing his PhD on organic LEDs which we will essentially be able to paint on large surfaces for practically no cost. Digital displays are going to become enormous and ubiquitous and very high resolution. You need to be thinking of your entire wall and more being a high-res display showing your pictures. The slide show from Hell. The porn companies will be having, er, orgasms. They're probably funding the research. B I wonder if it will be touch screen? wipe-clean. I think, in this one instance, I'd prefer disposable. -- No fixed Adobe -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On May 19, 2012, at 1:55 AM, Tom C wrote: The real driver is $$$ which = survival. Some have pondered 'who needs a camera with more MP?'. No one truly NEEDS it. [A bunch of reasonable argument snipped here.] If Pentax (or any other camera manufacturer) does not continue to innovate and generate new WANTS, what will happen to them? Tom C. (If a customer already has a ##MP camera, how many more ##MP cameras is the customer likely to purchase?) When I went from Nikkormat to OM-1 to ME-Super to LX to PZ-1p to LX to MZ-S, I never got an increase in MP for my money. But I bought anyway because I did get an increase in metering reliability, improvements in focusing, ease of handling, etc. I don't know off hand how many MP my K20D has, but I would not hesitate to buy a newer model with the same MP if I could get better low-light performance, particularly WRT AF. I take the general point you and others are making: many/most purchasers don't know what they are doing, and they will be overly impressed by whatever facts and figures the advertisers and sales persons are throwing out. But the MP arms race will peak soon, if it hasn't already. stan -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
[...] I take the general point you and others are making: many/most purchasers don't know what they are doing, and they will be overly impressed by whatever facts and figures the advertisers and sales persons are throwing out. But the MP arms race will peak soon, if it hasn't already. stan one of my brothers was rather scathing about my Leica because it doesn't have as many megapixels as his phone. A lot of people don't seem to realise that there are megapixels and there are mgeapixels. Mine are all first cold-pressed extra virgin long-staple Egyptian tree-ripened, shade-grown, free-range organic megapixels, whereas he got his from a bloke in Woolwich Market. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
Bob, I especially want some free-range organic megapixels. Wow, I didn't know Leica had those! Regards, Bob S. On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 6:36 AM, Bob W p...@web-options.com wrote: [...] I take the general point you and others are making: many/most purchasers don't know what they are doing, and they will be overly impressed by whatever facts and figures the advertisers and sales persons are throwing out. But the MP arms race will peak soon, if it hasn't already. stan one of my brothers was rather scathing about my Leica because it doesn't have as many megapixels as his phone. A lot of people don't seem to realise that there are megapixels and there are mgeapixels. Mine are all first cold-pressed extra virgin long-staple Egyptian tree-ripened, shade-grown, free-range organic megapixels, whereas he got his from a bloke in Woolwich Market. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
Leica has their own megapixel farm in Southern Bavaria B -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Bob Sullivan Sent: 19 May 2012 15:34 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body Bob, I especially want some free-range organic megapixels. Wow, I didn't know Leica had those! Regards, Bob S. On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 6:36 AM, Bob W p...@web-options.com wrote: [...] I take the general point you and others are making: many/most purchasers don't know what they are doing, and they will be overly impressed by whatever facts and figures the advertisers and sales persons are throwing out. But the MP arms race will peak soon, if it hasn't already. stan one of my brothers was rather scathing about my Leica because it doesn't have as many megapixels as his phone. A lot of people don't seem to realise that there are megapixels and there are mgeapixels. Mine are all first cold-pressed extra virgin long-staple Egyptian tree-ripened, shade-grown, free-range organic megapixels, whereas he got his from a bloke in Woolwich Market. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On 19/05/2012 17:00, Bob W wrote: Leica has their own megapixel farm in Southern Bavaria B No wonder Leicas are so expensive. That's as close to Switzerland as you can get without having to yodel your order to the shop assistasnt. -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Bob Sullivan Sent: 19 May 2012 15:34 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body Bob, I especially want some free-range organic megapixels. Wow, I didn't know Leica had those! Regards, Bob S. On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 6:36 AM, Bob Wp...@web-options.com wrote: [...] I take the general point you and others are making: many/most purchasers don't know what they are doing, and they will be overly impressed by whatever facts and figures the advertisers and sales persons are throwing out. But the MP arms race will peak soon, if it hasn't already. stan one of my brothers was rather scathing about my Leica because it doesn't have as many megapixels as his phone. A lot of people don't seem to realise that there are megapixels and there are mgeapixels. Mine are all first cold-pressed extra virgin long-staple Egyptian tree-ripened, shade-grown, free-range organic megapixels, whereas he got his from a bloke in Woolwich Market. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- No fixed Adobe -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On 19/05/2012 17:00, Bob W wrote: Leica has their own megapixel farm in Southern Bavaria B No wonder Leicas are so expensive. That's as close to Switzerland as you can get without having to yodel your order to the shop assistasnt. it's the only place where children have good enough eyesight and nimble enough fingers to do the sorting. At least until the age of 7, by which time their vision is destroyed and their hands are too arthritic to continue, so they send them to the lace factories in Belgium. The girl in this picture is only 10, but look at her! http://www.mbd.be/picts/home-1.jpg Still, it's worth it for such a good camera. And after all, hardly any of them are my children. B -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Bob Sullivan Sent: 19 May 2012 15:34 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body Bob, I especially want some free-range organic megapixels. Wow, I didn't know Leica had those! Regards, Bob S. On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 6:36 AM, Bob Wp...@web-options.com wrote: [...] I take the general point you and others are making: many/most purchasers don't know what they are doing, and they will be overly impressed by whatever facts and figures the advertisers and sales persons are throwing out. But the MP arms race will peak soon, if it hasn't already. stan one of my brothers was rather scathing about my Leica because it doesn't have as many megapixels as his phone. A lot of people don't seem to realise that there are megapixels and there are mgeapixels. Mine are all first cold-pressed extra virgin long-staple Egyptian tree-ripened, shade-grown, free-range organic megapixels, whereas he got his from a bloke in Woolwich Market. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- No fixed Adobe -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On May 19, 2012, at 4:36 AM, Bob W wrote: [...] I take the general point you and others are making: many/most purchasers don't know what they are doing, and they will be overly impressed by whatever facts and figures the advertisers and sales persons are throwing out. But the MP arms race will peak soon, if it hasn't already. stan one of my brothers was rather scathing about my Leica because it doesn't have as many megapixels as his phone. A lot of people don't seem to realise that there are megapixels and there are mgeapixels. Mine are all first cold-pressed extra virgin long-staple Egyptian tree-ripened, shade-grown, free-range organic megapixels, whereas he got his from a bloke in Woolwich Market. With newer cameras having so many more megapixels, rendering the older cameras obsolete, at what point do I have to start throwing away the photos I took with a 6MP camera because they are no loner any good? What about 12 or 14MP? -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
Miserere wrote: Let me tell you a story, my friend. Last Sunday I ran into a chap carrying a Nikon D800E. We chatted a bit, I gave him my photography card, and I asked him why he bought the D800E, because my blog partner, who shoots weddings with a D700, was annoyed that the new Nikon had so many pixels. With a straight face, and the air of someone who is imparting great knowledge, this guy said to me: Resolution is what truly matters; it's what makes this camera a GREAT camera. I asked him what he photographed, he replied I work at that print shop around the corner; we do all the menus for the Chinese restaurants in the area and I shot dishes for them to put in their menus. These photos are no more than an inch on the long side. True story. Priceless. Astonishing. Heartbreaking. (Then again, maybe he photographs 100 different dishes in one shot and just crops out the correct bit for each part of the menu...) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
With newer cameras having so many more megapixels, rendering the older cameras obsolete, at what point do I have to start throwing away the photos I took with a 6MP camera because they are no loner any good? What about 12 or 14MP? -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est Probably best to start straight away. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 2:15 PM, Bob W p...@web-options.com wrote: With newer cameras having so many more megapixels, rendering the older cameras obsolete, at what point do I have to start throwing away the photos I took with a 6MP camera because they are no loner any good? What about 12 or 14MP? Of course you are being facetious. Cameras are like cars. We can always love our first (or previous) vehicle and they probably got us where we needed to go at the time. But we've moved on to other vehicles for some reason or other and they are still capable of taking us where we want to go, perhaps in a little more style than we had in the past. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
just want to point out for the sake of generations still unborn that you've quoted incorrectly here. These immortal words leapt from Larry's flying fingertips, not mine own more humble stumps. -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Darren Addy Sent: 19 May 2012 20:35 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 2:15 PM, Bob W p...@web-options.com wrote: With newer cameras having so many more megapixels, rendering the older cameras obsolete, at what point do I have to start throwing away the photos I took with a 6MP camera because they are no loner any good? What about 12 or 14MP? Of course you are being facetious. Cameras are like cars. We can always love our first (or previous) vehicle and they probably got us where we needed to go at the time. But we've moved on to other vehicles for some reason or other and they are still capable of taking us where we want to go, perhaps in a little more style than we had in the past. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On May 19, 2012, at 12:35 PM, Darren Addy wrote: On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 2:15 PM, Bob W p...@web-options.com wrote: With newer cameras having so many more megapixels, rendering the older cameras obsolete, at what point do I have to start throwing away the photos I took with a 6MP camera because they are no loner any good? What about 12 or 14MP? Of course you are being facetious. Cameras are like cars. We can always love our first (or previous) vehicle and they probably got us where we needed to go at the time. But we've moved on to other vehicles for some reason or other and they are still capable of taking us where we want to go, perhaps in a little more style than we had in the past. More comfort, better economy, reliability sure. More style? Not necessarily. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
When I went from Nikkormat to OM-1 to ME-Super to LX to PZ-1p to LX to MZ-S, I never got an increase in MP for my money. But I bought anyway because I did get an increase in metering reliability, improvements in focusing, ease of handling, etc. I don't know off hand how many MP my K20D has, but I would not hesitate to buy a newer model with the same MP if I could get better low-light performance, particularly WRT AF. I take the general point you and others are making: many/most purchasers don't know what they are doing, and they will be overly impressed by whatever facts and figures the advertisers and sales persons are throwing out. But the MP arms race will peak soon, if it hasn't already. stan You likely did get some increase in resolution though because film quality continued to improve throughout its history. Of course the big jump was to go to a larger format. When I got my first SLR, an MX, and got more serious about photography, as opposed to just taking pictures, I studied the yearly film catalog/magazines that rated and listed the specs of each kind of film. That's what led me to the $7 and $8 rolls of Velvia, Provia and Reala, and away from the grocery store variety films. It was also apparent (and suspicious) that Kodak refused to rate their films using the same system as all other mfrs., so not being able to compare apples to apples, I moved away from Kodak, for the most part. In many respects we've benefited from the digital camera treadmill. Assuming Pentax does come out with a 24MP body that satisfies in other important ways, a person upgrading from a 6MP *ist D to that would have a 4X increase in base resolution. Even jumping from 14MP to 24MP is close to 2X. It's like jumping to a larger film format. I'm not sure when it'll peak. I sense, like you, that as far as APS-C goes, it's close to the limit. But then again... Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On 19/5/12, Larry Colen, discombobulated, unleashed: With newer cameras having so many more megapixels, rendering the older cameras obsolete, at what point do I have to start throwing away the photos I took with a 6MP camera because they are no loner any good? What about 12 or 14MP? My son is starting his photographic career with a 4MP camera. I'm sorry folks, it's nothing to do with MP, it's all to do with attitude and results. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche -- http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 08:15:27PM +0100, Bob W wrote: With newer cameras having so many more megapixels, rendering the older cameras obsolete, at what point do I have to start throwing away the photos I took with a 6MP camera because they are no loner any good? What about 12 or 14MP? -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est Probably best to start straight away. B That's about 5 years too late. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On May 19, 2012, at 6:27 PM, John Francis wrote: On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 08:15:27PM +0100, Bob W wrote: With newer cameras having so many more megapixels, rendering the older cameras obsolete, at what point do I have to start throwing away the photos I took with a 6MP camera because they are no loner any good? What about 12 or 14MP? -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est Probably best to start straight away. B That's about 5 years too late. Arguably closer to 40. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
Larry Colen wrote: With newer cameras having so many more megapixels, rendering the older cameras obsolete, at what point do I have to start throwing away the photos I took with a 6MP camera because they are no loner any good? Never: You just put four 6-megapixel pictures together to make one 24-megapixel image. Kinda like making a quilt. This also gives you the benefit of having fewer files to keep track of on your hard drive. You can thank me later for this idea... -- Mark Roberts - Photography Multimedia www.robertstech.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On May 19, 2012, at 8:25 PM, Mark Roberts wrote: Larry Colen wrote: With newer cameras having so many more megapixels, rendering the older cameras obsolete, at what point do I have to start throwing away the photos I took with a 6MP camera because they are no loner any good? Never: You just put four 6-megapixel pictures together to make one 24-megapixel image. Kinda like making a quilt. This also gives you the benefit of having fewer files to keep track of on your hard drive. You can thank me later for this idea... There are not words to describe how helpful your idea is. Though these guys are working on a similar premise: http://www.photoacute.com/ -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
My son is starting his photographic career with a 4MP camera. I'm sorry folks, it's nothing to do with MP, it's all to do with attitude and results. Cheers, Cotty I beg to differ with you in some respects. I'm probably parsing words and what was unstated. :) I agree that attitude and results trump all. I've captured great images with a Fuji plastic-lens disposable and a .3MP Sony Mavica on floppy disk. My own personal motto is 'Composition trumps all'. A technically perfectly exposed and rendered image is still distateful if the composition does not inspire the viewer with some degree of excitement or astethic appreciation (at least as far as my preferred genres go). If the image doesn't start with a vision of what one is hoping to achieve, it's unlikely it will match the photographer's aspirations. So I agree with that sentiment, that MP is not the most important consideration. However, I'm sure you wouldn't argue that, with rare exception, professionals in the field strive for the best image, and and usually with the best possible tools at their disposal. My images captured on a disposable camera, or on a 'lower' resolution sensor only go so far. I can tell you I wish my 6MP *ist D images had been taken with a 14MP K20D or K7, or higher. It often depends on what the end use of the image is and the media on which it's displayed, n'est pas? Web, small print, vs, portrait, vs., wall hanging. Taking that into consideration, generally, the higher MP the better. That's why larger film sizes were generally considered better than smaller formats. Practicality, price, ease of shooting, transportation, etc., tended to make 35mm the 'every man's' compromise. Still, many aspired to move to a larger format. Unfortunately for me, that happened within months of the first Pentax DSLR. My view is not that a higher MP image makes an image better. It's that it has the potential to make it more versatile, and possibly better based on the end use of the image. Tom C. (too many words) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
- Mensaje original - De: Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com With cautious optimism diluted with a small portion of educatedness I submit to the court that I am starting to get a feeling of deja vu from mid 2000's when we had plethora of cameras all sporting the very same 6 MP sensor... Anyone else care to join me in my deja vu? I woud say that, after the 6mpix era, Pentax is using the same sensor in 2-3 bodies: 10 Mpix in K10D, K200D and K-m 12 Mpix in K-x and k-r 14 Mpix in K20D and K-7 16 Mpix in K-5 and K-30 (and k-01 but this is a different category for me). So it should be enough for this sensor... Regards, Jaume -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 2:04 PM, Tom C caka...@gmail.com wrote: Tom, Somewhat of a rhetorical question. How many photos posted to PDML in the past week can you point to that would be noticeably better with a 24MP sensor? How many would be cleaner with better high ISO performance? High ISO versus high megapixels in cameras is like fast laptimes versus number of seats in a car. Some of us want a sportscar that is fun to drive around a racetrack, some people want something reliable with good fuel economy, and others want an SUV to carry six kids around town. There is no single right answer. Larry Define better. :-) A good or excellent picture shot on a higher MP camera, all other things equal, will probably be a better picture as it contains more detail (of course you know that). A crumby picture shot on a higher MP camera will still be a crumby picture. Maybe crumbier because it contains more crumby detail. All I'm saying is the same that Boris just elicited. Pentax hanging onto a 16MP sensor will not look good when the rest of the world passes them buy. Hopefully the K30 is the last 16MP camera they make. Otherwise, Boris will be right. It doesn't matter how good the camera is, a 16MP sensor camera will be just another boring 16MP camera, just like the endless variety of 6MP *ist D's. So much for the megapixel race being over. God forbid that Pentax (or anyone else) try to focus on features or usability or availability of lenses, etc. Do you remember back in the *ist D days, how some here said '6MP was all they would ever need' and 'why would anyone need more'? Those same people bought a K10D, K20D, K7, K5, and likely will buy whatever the next flagship of Pentax will be. I bought the K-5 because of the features besides the pixel count. The shot buffer was a huge reason; I was tired of the 3 frame limit in my K100D Super. The pentaprism was also a nice upgrade. As for the megapixels, 6MP is plenty for any kind of online viewing. Think about this, when have you ever seen a website use a picture wider than maybe 1024 pixels? Anything larger than the screen is going to get scaled down unless you are pixel peeing and you zoom in. I don't even export larger than 6MP (in Lightroom, in-camera jpegs are set to 6MP). No one I know ever needs to have 16MP jpeg files, not even clients. It clogs up email, web storage and bandwidth for no discernible benefit (I understand pro level usage requirements). What I seem to hear you implying is that 16MP is a cut off point. I suspect we're just throwing that number around because it happens to represent Pentax's top of the line in APS-C at the moment. So here's a rhetorical question (more or less). If you could get an equal or almost as good high ISO performance in a sensor that has a big jump in base resolution (from which every shot could benefit from), would you? We don't really have much choice do we. Pentax is the one making those decisions. The basic point is Pentax can't sit around in the 16MP realm when other manufacturers have higher MP base models, regardless of how good a 16MP camera it is, and expect to maintain market share. Tom C -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- David Parsons Photography http://www.davidparsonsphoto.com Aloha Photographer Photoblog http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
From: Jaume Lahuerta - Mensaje original - De: Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com With cautious optimism diluted with a small portion of educatedness I submit to the court that I am starting to get a feeling of deja vu from mid 2000's when we had plethora of cameras all sporting the very same 6 MP sensor... Anyone else care to join me in my deja vu? I woud say that, after the 6mpix era, Pentax is using the same sensor in 2-3 bodies: 10 Mpix in K10D, K200D and K-m 12 Mpix in K-x and k-r 14 Mpix in K20D and K-7 16 Mpix in K-5 and K-30 (and k-01 but this is a different category for me). So it should be enough for this sensor... Regards, Jaume Did Pentax use the same sensor for the K20D the K7 or were they just the same pixel count? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
John Sessoms wrote: Did Pentax use the same sensor for the K20D the K7 or were they just the same pixel count? A different implementation of the same 14.6 MP sensor, made by Samsung. The task to get higher frame rate on the K7 did not help with image quality, which I usually found marginally better on the K20D. Dario -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On 17/05/2012 1:00 PM, Bob W wrote: posting them online is not the point. Nobody needs a 24mp sensor for that. But people do want to print large, and to be able to crop. In addition, more pixels generally means other things about the camera are 'better' (depending on your definition). If they are making 24mp cameras for people who are making large prints, they can't be expecting to sell many cameras. The vast majority of pictures nowadays are viewed on digital displays of some sort, be them ipads or computer monitors. Chasing the large print market is a fools game. The pixel war is pretty much marketer driven, people are impressed by large numbers over smaller ones, and people now are used to (and demand that) manufacturers give them more large numbers, pixel count being the key metric they latch on to. Nikon took a serious lambasting when they came out with the D3, IIRC, because it was only 12mp. Apparently there is much pissing and moaning in Canonville because they don't have anything above 22mp. One would think that the world is ending. Most of these people never get beyond taking pictures of brick walls, but they still want more than what the other guy has (Why not just find some smaller bricks to photograph?). -- William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
The makeup of my classes skews towards the typical consumer end of the scale. The classes average about 10-12 students. Very few have ever made even one 8x10 print, more have cropped an image. Less than 20-30% have ever done either. I've been asking these two questions for several years. In general, before I explain pixels, most people have a general idea that more pixels means better. Few know why or how that may be. But when given the choice, they will buy the camera with more megapixels. That's what the marketing and sales has told them to do. I had a hard time not laughing when one guy told me he thought that a MegaPixel was a great big giant pixel. gs George Sinos gsi...@gmail.com www.georgesphotos.net plus.georgesinos.com On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 8:34 AM, William Robb anotherdrunken...@gmail.com wrote: On 17/05/2012 1:00 PM, Bob W wrote: posting them online is not the point. Nobody needs a 24mp sensor for that. But people do want to print large, and to be able to crop. In addition, more pixels generally means other things about the camera are 'better' (depending on your definition). If they are making 24mp cameras for people who are making large prints, they can't be expecting to sell many cameras. The vast majority of pictures nowadays are viewed on digital displays of some sort, be them ipads or computer monitors. Chasing the large print market is a fools game. The pixel war is pretty much marketer driven, people are impressed by large numbers over smaller ones, and people now are used to (and demand that) manufacturers give them more large numbers, pixel count being the key metric they latch on to. Nikon took a serious lambasting when they came out with the D3, IIRC, because it was only 12mp. Apparently there is much pissing and moaning in Canonville because they don't have anything above 22mp. One would think that the world is ending. Most of these people never get beyond taking pictures of brick walls, but they still want more than what the other guy has (Why not just find some smaller bricks to photograph?). -- William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
Some of you in this discussion remind me of Bill Gates and his (in)famous (alleged) quote regarding computer RAM: 640K ought to be enough for anybody. Whether he actually said it or not is irrelevant to this discussion - I think with hindsight we'd all agree that anyone who might have said such a thing would have to be considered the opposite of visionary (not to mention REALITY). Similarly, thinking that a certain number of pixels on a sensor is enough and that anything else is simply driven by the marketing department (as if that department is irrelevant to a company's growth, let alone survival) is similarly the opposite of reality. I believe that Tom C's comments in this thread are firmly grounded in reality. I'm sure that we all agree that megapixels are not the *deciding factor* in evaluating the worthiness of a digital camera. However, *all things being equal* the buying public will probably be more inclined to look favorably upon higher megapixels (until they are educated on the downside of those megapixels). One of those downsides that I hear mentioned (even on PDML) is that large filesizes are a pain to work with and require larger/faster computers and storage to handle their output. I don't know if any of use know where this imaging technology is eventually going and how much power is going to ultimately be put in the consumer's hands. But it constantly moves forward. There was a time when laser printers and copy machines were only within the purview of good-sized businesses, but odds are that most of use have one or both sitting our desks at home now. Technology marches on and with it grow our insecurities with the equipment that we bought last year. Some of us have a greater tolerance for that, but we all have some threshold at which we snap and need to upgrade or make a change. I think that we are seeing such a snapping point right now with the Nikon D800E. People are being affected by a combination of where the technology is going, a need to upgrade, and a dissatisfaction with how fast their present brand is letting them do that. It is time for Pentax to at least ANNOUNCE that something good is coming down the pike or they each day lose more people in their flock who flip the mental switch away from their current brand loyalty. And that's a hard switch to get flipped back. PS... if you want a look into the (perhaps) not-so-distant future, check this out: http://gizmodo.com/5911315/this-amazing-camera-can-capture-both-the-sun-and-the-stars-in-broad-daylight -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
I have long wondered why camera makers don't move more in the direction of building more sophisticated internal cooling into their designs. Long exposures and video, and large LCDs with live view generate heat, and heat is damaging to both electronics and image quality. Imagine taking a body form factor like the Pentax 645D, moving the sensor forward so it is at the 35mm lens flange distance (not the 645 lens distance), and then using all that new room behind the sensor for a cooling system. You would have video and long exposure advantages GALORE. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On 18/05/2012 9:37 AM, Darren Addy wrote: I have long wondered why camera makers don't move more in the direction of building more sophisticated internal cooling into their designs. Long exposures and video, and large LCDs with live view generate heat, and heat is damaging to both electronics and image quality. Imagine taking a body form factor like the Pentax 645D, moving the sensor forward so it is at the 35mm lens flange distance (not the 645 lens distance), and then using all that new room behind the sensor for a cooling system. You would have video and long exposure advantages GALORE. Probably because no one would buy it because the sensor is too small and the body is too big. -- William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
Darren Addy wrote: I have long wondered why camera makers don't move more in the direction of building more sophisticated internal cooling into their designs. Long exposures and video, and large LCDs with live view generate heat, and heat is damaging to both electronics and image quality. Me too. I think a lot can still be done on that purpose. Imagine taking a body form factor like the Pentax 645D, moving the sensor forward so it is at the 35mm lens flange distance (not the 645 lens distance), and then using all that new room behind the sensor for a cooling system. You would have video and long exposure advantages GALORE. Not my approach, not at all. Such a camera will become a K-mount body then, not a 645 one. At that point, just design a K-mount body (without any 645 constraints) based on the 36 MP sensor of the Nikon D800 and put extra emphasis on sensor cooling. Building a Nikon D800(E) with better noise performance would be cool ;-) Dario -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
Oh wait, we are not telling truly different things. You also imply just a 645D form factor, not a 645D body. OK, possible... Dario -Messaggio originale- From: Dario Bonazza Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 6:01 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body Darren Addy wrote: I have long wondered why camera makers don't move more in the direction of building more sophisticated internal cooling into their designs. Long exposures and video, and large LCDs with live view generate heat, and heat is damaging to both electronics and image quality. Me too. I think a lot can still be done on that purpose. Imagine taking a body form factor like the Pentax 645D, moving the sensor forward so it is at the 35mm lens flange distance (not the 645 lens distance), and then using all that new room behind the sensor for a cooling system. You would have video and long exposure advantages GALORE. Not my approach, not at all. Such a camera will become a K-mount body then, not a 645 one. At that point, just design a K-mount body (without any 645 constraints) based on the 36 MP sensor of the Nikon D800 and put extra emphasis on sensor cooling. Building a Nikon D800(E) with better noise performance would be cool ;-) Dario -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. - Nessun virus nel messaggio. Controllato da AVG - www.avg.com Versione: 2012.0.1913 / Database dei virus: 2425/5007 - Data di rilascio: 18/05/2012 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
From: William Robb On 17/05/2012 1:00 PM, Bob W wrote: posting them online is not the point. Nobody needs a 24mp sensor for that. But people do want to print large, and to be able to crop. In addition, more pixels generally means other things about the camera are 'better' (depending on your definition). If they are making 24mp cameras for people who are making large prints, they can't be expecting to sell many cameras. The vast majority of pictures nowadays are viewed on digital displays of some sort, be them ipads or computer monitors. Chasing the large print market is a fools game. The pixel war is pretty much marketer driven, people are impressed by large numbers over smaller ones, and people now are used to (and demand that) manufacturers give them more large numbers, pixel count being the key metric they latch on to. Nikon took a serious lambasting when they came out with the D3, IIRC, because it was only 12mp. Apparently there is much pissing and moaning in Canonville because they don't have anything above 22mp. One would think that the world is ending. Most of these people never get beyond taking pictures of brick walls, but they still want more than what the other guy has (Why not just find some smaller bricks to photograph?). Y'all are trying to apply common sense to marketing hype. Hardly anyone *needs* 24MP. A whole lot of people apparently *WANT* 24MP. If they can't get what they want from Pentax, they'll get it from someone else. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
I wouldn't buy one because I haven't got a ready source of liquid nitrogen for the cooling system. :-) Regards, Bob S. On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:52 AM, William Robb anotherdrunken...@gmail.com wrote: On 18/05/2012 9:37 AM, Darren Addy wrote: I have long wondered why camera makers don't move more in the direction of building more sophisticated internal cooling into their designs. Long exposures and video, and large LCDs with live view generate heat, and heat is damaging to both electronics and image quality. Imagine taking a body form factor like the Pentax 645D, moving the sensor forward so it is at the 35mm lens flange distance (not the 645 lens distance), and then using all that new room behind the sensor for a cooling system. You would have video and long exposure advantages GALORE. Probably because no one would buy it because the sensor is too small and the body is too big. -- William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On 5/18/2012 11:37 AM, Darren Addy wrote: I have long wondered why camera makers don't move more in the direction of building more sophisticated internal cooling into their designs. Long exposures and video, and large LCDs with live view generate heat, and heat is damaging to both electronics and image quality. Imagine taking a body form factor like the Pentax 645D, moving the sensor forward so it is at the 35mm lens flange distance (not the 645 lens distance), and then using all that new room behind the sensor for a cooling system. You would have video and long exposure advantages GALORE. I think you've just described a digital movie camera, and there are a couple of those already. -- Don't lose heart! They might want to cut it out, and they'll want to avoid a lengthily search. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:19 AM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: Y'all are trying to apply common sense to marketing hype. Hardly anyone *needs* 24MP. A whole lot of people apparently *WANT* 24MP. No, I believe that you have it backwards. Sensor manufacturers are constantly looking to make whatever they make some products bigger and better and existing products cheaper (economies of scale, if nothing else). Camera manufacturers look at what is coming down the pike in sensor design, select them and design around their components. Then the marketing people are charged with fanning the flames of consumer desire. If there is anything we learned from Steve Jobs and his groundbreaking products it is that the public doesn't have any idea what it wants, until *after* they see it. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
Darren, I have to politely disagree. I believe it's all market driven. I believe that the engineer with a new toy is always thinking 'How could I sell a million of these?' The engineer turns it into something, and then turns it over to marketing for more polishing. Jobs was an exceptional businessman. He knew what he wanted and then beat the crap out of people until he got it and made it simple and elegant. You can do that if you're incredibly rich and stubborn. Regards, Bob S. On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:52 AM, Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:19 AM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: Y'all are trying to apply common sense to marketing hype. Hardly anyone *needs* 24MP. A whole lot of people apparently *WANT* 24MP. No, I believe that you have it backwards. Sensor manufacturers are constantly looking to make whatever they make some products bigger and better and existing products cheaper (economies of scale, if nothing else). Camera manufacturers look at what is coming down the pike in sensor design, select them and design around their components. Then the marketing people are charged with fanning the flames of consumer desire. If there is anything we learned from Steve Jobs and his groundbreaking products it is that the public doesn't have any idea what it wants, until *after* they see it. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
(Why not just find some smaller bricks to photograph?). I hope Mark saw that. I heard that Canon users all have small bricks. B -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of William Robb Sent: 18 May 2012 14:35 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body On 17/05/2012 1:00 PM, Bob W wrote: posting them online is not the point. Nobody needs a 24mp sensor for that. But people do want to print large, and to be able to crop. In addition, more pixels generally means other things about the camera are 'better' (depending on your definition). If they are making 24mp cameras for people who are making large prints, they can't be expecting to sell many cameras. The vast majority of pictures nowadays are viewed on digital displays of some sort, be them ipads or computer monitors. Chasing the large print market is a fools game. The pixel war is pretty much marketer driven, people are impressed by large numbers over smaller ones, and people now are used to (and demand that) manufacturers give them more large numbers, pixel count being the key metric they latch on to. Nikon took a serious lambasting when they came out with the D3, IIRC, because it was only 12mp. Apparently there is much pissing and moaning in Canonville because they don't have anything above 22mp. One would think that the world is ending. Most of these people never get beyond taking pictures of brick walls, but they still want more than what the other guy has (Why not just find some smaller bricks to photograph?). -- William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
posting them online is not the point. Nobody needs a 24mp sensor for that. But people do want to print large, and to be able to crop. In addition, more pixels generally means other things about the camera are 'better' (depending on your definition). If they are making 24mp cameras for people who are making large prints, they can't be expecting to sell many cameras. The vast majority of pictures nowadays are viewed on digital displays of some sort, be them ipads or computer monitors. Chasing the large print market is a fools game. One of my nephews is doing his PhD on organic LEDs which we will essentially be able to paint on large surfaces for practically no cost. Digital displays are going to become enormous and ubiquitous and very high resolution. You need to be thinking of your entire wall and more being a high-res display showing your pictures. The slide show from Hell. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On 18/05/2012 21:31, Bob W wrote: posting them online is not the point. Nobody needs a 24mp sensor for that. But people do want to print large, and to be able to crop. In addition, more pixels generally means other things about the camera are 'better' (depending on your definition). If they are making 24mp cameras for people who are making large prints, they can't be expecting to sell many cameras. The vast majority of pictures nowadays are viewed on digital displays of some sort, be them ipads or computer monitors. Chasing the large print market is a fools game. One of my nephews is doing his PhD on organic LEDs which we will essentially be able to paint on large surfaces for practically no cost. Digital displays are going to become enormous and ubiquitous and very high resolution. You need to be thinking of your entire wall and more being a high-res display showing your pictures. The slide show from Hell. The porn companies will be having, er, orgasms. -- No fixed Adobe -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
based on my pixel peeping calculations, it would take at least 50 MP to get rid of those damn diagonal jaggies on a FF sensor with a good lens. Of course it would take really big prints to see any problems with 24MP. - J.C.O'Connell hifis...@gate.net - -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of John Sessoms Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 12:19 PM To: pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body From: William Robb On 17/05/2012 1:00 PM, Bob W wrote: posting them online is not the point. Nobody needs a 24mp sensor for that. But people do want to print large, and to be able to crop. In addition, more pixels generally means other things about the camera are 'better' (depending on your definition). If they are making 24mp cameras for people who are making large prints, they can't be expecting to sell many cameras. The vast majority of pictures nowadays are viewed on digital displays of some sort, be them ipads or computer monitors. Chasing the large print market is a fools game. The pixel war is pretty much marketer driven, people are impressed by large numbers over smaller ones, and people now are used to (and demand that) manufacturers give them more large numbers, pixel count being the key metric they latch on to. Nikon took a serious lambasting when they came out with the D3, IIRC, because it was only 12mp. Apparently there is much pissing and moaning in Canonville because they don't have anything above 22mp. One would think that the world is ending. Most of these people never get beyond taking pictures of brick walls, but they still want more than what the other guy has (Why not just find some smaller bricks to photograph?). Y'all are trying to apply common sense to marketing hype. Hardly anyone *needs* 24MP. A whole lot of people apparently *WANT* 24MP. If they can't get what they want from Pentax, they'll get it from someone else. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On 5/18/2012 3:31 PM, Bob W wrote: posting them online is not the point. Nobody needs a 24mp sensor for that. But people do want to print large, and to be able to crop. In addition, more pixels generally means other things about the camera are 'better' (depending on your definition). If they are making 24mp cameras for people who are making large prints, they can't be expecting to sell many cameras. The vast majority of pictures nowadays are viewed on digital displays of some sort, be them ipads or computer monitors. Chasing the large print market is a fools game. One of my nephews is doing his PhD on organic LEDs which we will essentially be able to paint on large surfaces for practically no cost. Digital displays are going to become enormous and ubiquitous and very high resolution. You need to be thinking of your entire wall and more being a high-res display showing your pictures. The slide show from Hell. B I always find that amusing, paint on displays, what miracle of nano engineering will produce the support circuitry to address the pixels in this massive array? Will it grow itself? What power source will it use? That seems to be a major stumbling block. However now that I think of it I think I've finally figured out the nature of God and explained why the eye seems to appear fully formed in the fossil record, some extee engineer was trying to find an organic way to display his intergalactic cat pictures really big and things just got out of hand. -- Don't lose heart! They might want to cut it out, and they'll want to avoid a lengthily search. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
One of my nephews is doing his PhD on organic LEDs which we will essentially be able to paint on large surfaces for practically no cost. Digital displays are going to become enormous and ubiquitous and very high resolution. You need to be thinking of your entire wall and more being a high-res display showing your pictures. The slide show from Hell. The porn companies will be having, er, orgasms. They're probably funding the research. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
William Robb wrote: On 17/05/2012 1:00 PM, Bob W wrote: posting them online is not the point. Nobody needs a 24mp sensor for that. But people do want to print large, and to be able to crop. In addition, more pixels generally means other things about the camera are 'better' (depending on your definition). If they are making 24mp cameras for people who are making large prints, they can't be expecting to sell many cameras. The vast majority of pictures nowadays are viewed on digital displays of some sort, be them ipads or computer monitors. Chasing the large print market is a fools game. The pixel war is pretty much marketer driven, people are impressed by large numbers over smaller ones, and people now are used to (and demand that) manufacturers give them more large numbers, pixel count being the key metric they latch on to. Damn right. Pixel count is an easy numerical target for both consumers and engineers to latch onto, so the pressure is on from both sides. I expect the K5 replacement will use a variant of the Sony 14MP APS-C sensor due to this pressure. I'm really not interested in 24MP APS-C (though that's partly because I already have a 24MP full-frame camera). I can make splendid 12 x 18 prints from my 16MP K5 even with significant cropping. To get the benefits of my 24MP camera requires extra effort and attention to detail, so it only gets used when I think I need it and am willing to work in the manner it requires. As someone else noted, 16MP and 24MP cameras are very different animals. I'd be perfectly happy if Pentax used a 24MP sensor in a full-frame camera but I expect market pressure will necessitate a ~35MP sensor. (And I'll buy one just so I don't have to keep acquiring Sony lenses.) Nikon took a serious lambasting when they came out with the D3, IIRC, because it was only 12mp. Apparently there is much pissing and moaning in Canonville because they don't have anything above 22mp. One would think that the world is ending. I expect that Canon, having merged the 1D and 1Ds models, will come out with a new designation and a Nikonesque-pixel-count camera before too long. Most of these people never get beyond taking pictures of brick walls, but they still want more than what the other guy has (Why not just find some smaller bricks to photograph?). Brilliant! -- Mark Roberts - Photography Multimedia www.robertstech.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
Bob W wrote: One of my nephews is doing his PhD on organic LEDs which we will essentially be able to paint on large surfaces for practically no cost. Digital displays are going to become enormous and ubiquitous and very high resolution. You need to be thinking of your entire wall and more being a high-res display showing your pictures. The slide show from Hell. The porn companies will be having, er, orgasms. They're probably funding the research. Donate now to orgasm research and put the Fun back in Funding. -- Mark Roberts - Photography Multimedia www.robertstech.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
[...] I always find that amusing, paint on displays, what miracle of nano engineering will produce the support circuitry to address the pixels in this massive array? Will it grow itself? What power source will it use? That seems to be a major stumbling block. that's why they hand out PhDs and shit-loads of money to people who can figure that sort of stuff out. B However now that I think of it I think I've finally figured out the nature of God and explained why the eye seems to appear fully formed in the fossil record, some extee engineer was trying to find an organic way to display his intergalactic cat pictures really big and things just got out of hand. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
on 2012-05-18 14:25 P. J. Alling wrote I always find that amusing, paint on displays, what miracle of nano engineering will produce the support circuitry to address the pixels in this massive array? Will it grow itself? What power source will it use? That seems to be a major stumbling block. it will eat insects — the walls of our living rooms will be covered with thousands of chameleons -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On 18 May 2012 09:10, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: Did Pentax use the same sensor for the K20D the K7 or were they just the same pixel count? The Sony 16MP sensors aren't exactly the same either. The one in the K-01 is a newer generation than the one in the K-5. The K-30 will probably use the same one as the K-01, and I wonder if it will also be 12 bit (the K-5 is 14 bit). —M. \/\/o/\/\ -- http://WorldOfMiserere.com http://EnticingTheLight.com A Quest for Photographic Enlightenment -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
From: Bob W One of my nephews is doing his PhD on organic LEDs which we will essentially be able to paint on large surfaces for practically no cost. Digital displays are going to become enormous and ubiquitous and very high resolution. You need to be thinking of your entire wall and more being a high-res display showing your pictures. The slide show from Hell. The porn companies will be having, er, orgasms. They're probably funding the research. B I wonder if it will be touch screen? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On 18 May 2012 11:19, Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com wrote: I think that we are seeing such a snapping point right now with the Nikon D800E. People are being affected by a combination of where the technology is going, a need to upgrade, and a dissatisfaction with how fast their present brand is letting them do that. Let me tell you a story, my friend. Last Sunday I ran into a chap carrying a Nikon D800E. We chatted a bit, I gave him my photography card, and I asked him why he bought the D800E, because my blog partner, who shoots weddings with a D700, was annoyed that the new Nikon had so many pixels. With a straight face, and the air of someone who is imparting great knowledge, this guy said to me: Resolution is what truly matters; it's what makes this camera a GREAT camera. I asked him what he photographed, he replied I work at that print shop around the corner; we do all the menus for the Chinese restaurants in the area and I shot dishes for them to put in their menus. These photos are no more than an inch on the long side. True story. Now, why do I think the MP race continues? It's not the Marketing Dept, it's the Engineering Dept. If let loose, those engineers will try to make stuff smaller, faster, and any -er they can think of...as long as it's a measurable quantity. It's in the nature of Engineers to be like this. Not that the Marketing Dept don't have any blame, because they're probably rubbing their hands gleefuly and giggling like little girls at their first prom thinking how easy their job is because all they need to do is print New, better, improved, MORE MEGAPIXELS! on the new camera's box and call it a day. I have more ideas and opinions, but I'll shut up now. —M. \/\/o/\/\ -- http://WorldOfMiserere.com http://EnticingTheLight.com A Quest for Photographic Enlightenment -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
Great story! Cheers, Christine On May 18, 2012, at 8:29 PM, Miserere miser...@gmail.com wrote: On 18 May 2012 11:19, Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com wrote: I think that we are seeing such a snapping point right now with the Nikon D800E. People are being affected by a combination of where the technology is going, a need to upgrade, and a dissatisfaction with how fast their present brand is letting them do that. Let me tell you a story, my friend. Last Sunday I ran into a chap carrying a Nikon D800E. We chatted a bit, I gave him my photography card, and I asked him why he bought the D800E, because my blog partner, who shoots weddings with a D700, was annoyed that the new Nikon had so many pixels. With a straight face, and the air of someone who is imparting great knowledge, this guy said to me: Resolution is what truly matters; it's what makes this camera a GREAT camera. I asked him what he photographed, he replied I work at that print shop around the corner; we do all the menus for the Chinese restaurants in the area and I shot dishes for them to put in their menus. These photos are no more than an inch on the long side. True story. Now, why do I think the MP race continues? It's not the Marketing Dept, it's the Engineering Dept. If let loose, those engineers will try to make stuff smaller, faster, and any -er they can think of...as long as it's a measurable quantity. It's in the nature of Engineers to be like this. Not that the Marketing Dept don't have any blame, because they're probably rubbing their hands gleefuly and giggling like little girls at their first prom thinking how easy their job is because all they need to do is print New, better, improved, MORE MEGAPIXELS! on the new camera's box and call it a day. I have more ideas and opinions, but I'll shut up now. —M. \/\/o/\/\ -- http://WorldOfMiserere.com http://EnticingTheLight.com A Quest for Photographic Enlightenment -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
The implication of your comment and those of others in this thread seems to be that consumers will blindly buy whatever new thing is offered up. (Assuming of course that it receives at least a fair quota of marketing hype and favorable magazine/web-site commentary.) I could suggest a number of breakthroughs which have left consumers totally unimpressed. Polaroid? They had a small niche but could not displace acetate-based film that had to be processed in a witches' brew of chemicals. Stereoscopic cameras? 3-D TV's? All 3 of my examples should have taken hold. Polaroid appealed to that instant gratification thing that has people now chimping. Stereo images and 3-D TV take us beyond flat images to something closer to what we normally see. Just because a bright engineer or 30 figure out how to grow organic LCDs or make sensors with extreme EV range doesn't mean that consumers will buy such innovations. Or that they should. To place my words of wisdom in context, for many many years, mid-1970's to mid-80's, I thought I could deflect the remorseless advance of the vanguard of progress. I argued (on the basis of perfectly good research data, some of it my own research) that my employer was making a very foolish expensive mistake to be buying color computer monitors. BW was cheaper, lighter, cooler, lower power requirements, greater reliability and, oh by the way, as good or better than color monitors in conveying the information the users needed to use in their job. I lost that battle (don't talk to me about data - I know what I like!) and at some point it became difficult/expensive to buy BW monitors. But just because I was wrong before about the inevitability of technology creep doesn't mean I am wrong this time! stan On May 18, 2012, at 12:52 PM, Darren Addy wrote: On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:19 AM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: Y'all are trying to apply common sense to marketing hype. Hardly anyone *needs* 24MP. A whole lot of people apparently *WANT* 24MP. No, I believe that you have it backwards. Sensor manufacturers are constantly looking to make whatever they make some products bigger and better and existing products cheaper (economies of scale, if nothing else). Camera manufacturers look at what is coming down the pike in sensor design, select them and design around their components. Then the marketing people are charged with fanning the flames of consumer desire. If there is anything we learned from Steve Jobs and his groundbreaking products it is that the public doesn't have any idea what it wants, until *after* they see it. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
Now, why do I think the MP race continues? It's not the Marketing Dept, it's the Engineering Dept. If let loose, those engineers will try to make stuff smaller, faster, and any -er they can think of...as long as it's a measurable quantity. It's in the nature of Engineers to be like this. Not that the Marketing Dept don't have any blame, because they're probably rubbing their hands gleefuly and giggling like little girls at their first prom thinking how easy their job is because all they need to do is print New, better, improved, MORE MEGAPIXELS! on the new camera's box and call it a day. I have more ideas and opinions, but I'll shut up now. ?M. The real driver is $$$ which = survival. Some have pondered 'who needs a camera with more MP?'. No one truly NEEDS it. A company that produces what the customer NEEDS, can pretty much just keep producing the same thing year after year. Toilet paper comes to mind. For 75+ years no real innovation in light bulbs was required, because everyone needs light bulbs. They're commodities. Companies that produce those kinds of products essentially have a guaranteed revenue/customer stream because what they produce is consumed and must be replaced. When it comes to WANTS (versus NEEDS), things change. A company that produces what the customer WANTS (or comes to WANT) does not have a guaranteed revenue/customer stream. When a product has saturated its market, the customers who have purchased the product no longer WANT it. The revenue/customer stream dries up and is essentially limited to mostly new customers. What to do? Only one thing. Create a new product (WANT) that will attract both new customers and the saturated market of prior customers. Otherwise small sales volume = small revenue = out of business. Hence the endless cycles of microprocessors, operating systems, PC's, iPods, iPads, and digital cameras. It's not engineering, or marketing, or customer demand that's driving the MP wars. It's basic economic reality in a capitalist system when a company produces products that are 1) not consumables or 2) not truly NEEDED. For proof of this look at Kodak and the photography business in the pre-digital era. Aside from a small camera business, Kodak made the vast majority of their money by producing film, paper, and chemicals. It was like light bulbs and toilet paper. The items continually needed to be replaced, hence innovation in the camera/hardware arena was comparatively slow because they had a guaranteed revenue/customer stream. When customers no longer NEEDED the film, paper, and chemicals, and Kodak was not producing what the customer WANTED, what happened to Kodak? If Pentax (or any other camera manufacturer) does not continue to innovate and generate new WANTS, what will happen to them? Tom C. (If a customer already has a ##MP camera, how many more ##MP cameras is the customer likely to purchase?) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
Still, if it costs $800-900 or so it makes it a better alternative to the K-01. I wonder if a cheaper version of the latter is coming. On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 6:41 PM, P. J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote: The K-5 is now on it's way out. I expect that the new naming convention for Pentax DSLRs is Top line single digit the second line is two digit, (first digit same as the top camera) so K-3 flagship, K-30 mid/entry level, K-300 entry level. Will there be a K300? Hell I don't know, but Pentax has done that before. I wouldn't be surprised if the K30 had a Pentaprism that it shared with the K3/5/7 and if there is a K300 it will have the same mirror prism that the current K-r (and K-x all the way back to the *ist-DL). On 5/16/2012 6:27 PM, Miserere wrote: Better photos: http://photorumors.com/2012/05/16/a-better-picture-of-the-pentax-k-30/ I've been critical of Pentax recently (say the last 3 years?) but this is a great move. Why? - They get to reuse the 16MP Sony sensor which they've squeezed great IQ out of for the K-5. It might also be a cheaper sensor now because it's old technology. - An entry-level body for $700-800 is a good price given the current climate. - Weather Sealing! Awesome move at this price point. - 2 e-dials!!! Can't stress enough how much I like this in any type of body (entry-level or professional). - 100% viewfinder. H...this seems strange, as I expected a pentamirror VF given the smaller size of the hump. Maybe it's the first pentamirror VF that doesn't look like a tunnel? When I saw the VF coverage of 100% my first thought was EVF...the K30 is mirrorless!, but then PF says it's got 11 AF points, which would mean it's an optical VF, and thus not mirrorless. But I wonder... In any case, I think this camera is going to sell well to the crowd who didn't want to splurge on a K-5, and to the other crowd who *did* splurge on a K-5 and want a 2nd body. What I don't know is how many K30's they'll sell at $800 if the K-5 is $999, so they either raise the price of the K-5 back up to $1,200 again or lover the K30 price to $700. Anyone else feeling good about the K30? —M. \/\/o/\/\ -- http://WorldOfMiserere.com http://EnticingTheLight.com A Quest for Photographic Enlightenment On 16 May 2012 16:21, Jeffery Smithjsmith...@gmail.com wrote: Pretty crummy portrayal of the camera (image-wise). But anything from Pentax with a mirror and a K mount is good by me. Jeffery On May 16, 2012, at 3:17 PM, Steven Desjardins wrote: From our friends at Pentax Forums: http://www.pentaxforums.com/news/pentax-k30-new-intro-level-dslr.html -- Steve Desjardins -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Don't lose heart! They might want to cut it out, and they'll want to avoid a lengthily search. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Steve Desjardins -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
With cautious optimism diluted with a small portion of educatedness I submit to the court that I am starting to get a feeling of deja vu from mid 2000's when we had plethora of cameras all sporting the very same 6 MP sensor... Anyone else care to join me in my deja vu? On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 1:27 AM, Miserere miser...@gmail.com wrote: Better photos: http://photorumors.com/2012/05/16/a-better-picture-of-the-pentax-k-30/ I've been critical of Pentax recently (say the last 3 years?) but this is a great move. Why? - They get to reuse the 16MP Sony sensor which they've squeezed great IQ out of for the K-5. It might also be a cheaper sensor now because it's old technology. - An entry-level body for $700-800 is a good price given the current climate. - Weather Sealing! Awesome move at this price point. - 2 e-dials!!! Can't stress enough how much I like this in any type of body (entry-level or professional). - 100% viewfinder. H...this seems strange, as I expected a pentamirror VF given the smaller size of the hump. Maybe it's the first pentamirror VF that doesn't look like a tunnel? When I saw the VF coverage of 100% my first thought was EVF...the K30 is mirrorless!, but then PF says it's got 11 AF points, which would mean it's an optical VF, and thus not mirrorless. But I wonder... In any case, I think this camera is going to sell well to the crowd who didn't want to splurge on a K-5, and to the other crowd who *did* splurge on a K-5 and want a 2nd body. What I don't know is how many K30's they'll sell at $800 if the K-5 is $999, so they either raise the price of the K-5 back up to $1,200 again or lover the K30 price to $700. Anyone else feeling good about the K30? —M. \/\/o/\/\ -- http://WorldOfMiserere.com http://EnticingTheLight.com A Quest for Photographic Enlightenment On 16 May 2012 16:21, Jeffery Smith jsmith...@gmail.com wrote: Pretty crummy portrayal of the camera (image-wise). But anything from Pentax with a mirror and a K mount is good by me. Jeffery On May 16, 2012, at 3:17 PM, Steven Desjardins wrote: From our friends at Pentax Forums: http://www.pentaxforums.com/news/pentax-k30-new-intro-level-dslr.html -- Steve Desjardins -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On May 16, 2012, at 17:27, Miserere wrote: Better photos: http://photorumors.com/2012/05/16/a-better-picture-of-the-pentax-k-30/ I've been critical of Pentax recently (say the last 3 years?) but this is a great move. Why? I enjoyed following some of the related links to all of the rumors about what was going to be in the K-7. That was amusing. -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On May 17, 2012, at 7:43 AM, Boris Liberman wrote: With cautious optimism diluted with a small portion of educatedness I submit to the court that I am starting to get a feeling of deja vu from mid 2000's when we had plethora of cameras all sporting the very same 6 MP sensor... Anyone else care to join me in my deja vu? Not me. When the *istD was launched, there weren't many affordable, reliable sensors on the market and sticking with a proven design made sense. While the K-5 sensor is superb, and we can expect to see it in several products going forward, I think we'll also get a higher res APS-C type sensor in a flagship model. Paul On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 1:27 AM, Miserere miser...@gmail.com wrote: Better photos: http://photorumors.com/2012/05/16/a-better-picture-of-the-pentax-k-30/ I've been critical of Pentax recently (say the last 3 years?) but this is a great move. Why? - They get to reuse the 16MP Sony sensor which they've squeezed great IQ out of for the K-5. It might also be a cheaper sensor now because it's old technology. - An entry-level body for $700-800 is a good price given the current climate. - Weather Sealing! Awesome move at this price point. - 2 e-dials!!! Can't stress enough how much I like this in any type of body (entry-level or professional). - 100% viewfinder. H...this seems strange, as I expected a pentamirror VF given the smaller size of the hump. Maybe it's the first pentamirror VF that doesn't look like a tunnel? When I saw the VF coverage of 100% my first thought was EVF...the K30 is mirrorless!, but then PF says it's got 11 AF points, which would mean it's an optical VF, and thus not mirrorless. But I wonder... In any case, I think this camera is going to sell well to the crowd who didn't want to splurge on a K-5, and to the other crowd who *did* splurge on a K-5 and want a 2nd body. What I don't know is how many K30's they'll sell at $800 if the K-5 is $999, so they either raise the price of the K-5 back up to $1,200 again or lover the K30 price to $700. Anyone else feeling good about the K30? —M. \/\/o/\/\ -- http://WorldOfMiserere.com http://EnticingTheLight.com A Quest for Photographic Enlightenment On 16 May 2012 16:21, Jeffery Smith jsmith...@gmail.com wrote: Pretty crummy portrayal of the camera (image-wise). But anything from Pentax with a mirror and a K mount is good by me. Jeffery On May 16, 2012, at 3:17 PM, Steven Desjardins wrote: From our friends at Pentax Forums: http://www.pentaxforums.com/news/pentax-k30-new-intro-level-dslr.html -- Steve Desjardins -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
I have difficulty faulting anything about my K-5, so I don't really have a wish list of what I would want on their next camera body. I really don't want the same sensor. Improvement of the sensor would, for me, be less noise at high ISO. A few years ago, Fuji had a PS with amazingly low noise at high ISO, so it could probably be improved in a Pentax. A Pentax dSLR with a Foveon processor would be nice, though it would primarily for well-lit subjects and a low ISO. Jeffery -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
What all this information and assessment indicates to me is that the sensor and firmware are all commodities that can be moved from an expensive body (K5) down to a less-expensive body (K3). In order to up the product quality to a level suitable for competing in the marketplace, I anticipate a $1500 24MP FF body, and the K3 to be priced even lower than initially estimated. If not then their piece of the pie will continue to shrink. Pentax must begin to excel once again. Or die. What Pentax missed was the change in enthusiast purchasing power. Today's enthusiast is willing and eager to spend $2K to $3K on a quality product. The are not all on the cheap end of the spending spectrum as they were in the 60s. Nikon gets it, even more than Canon, imnsho. Sincerely, Collin Brendemuehl He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose -- Jim Elliott -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
Boris wrote: With cautious optimism diluted with a small portion of educatedness I submit to the court that I am starting to get a feeling of deja vu from mid 2000's when we had plethora of cameras all sporting the very same 6 MP sensor... Anyone else care to join me in my deja vu? In my opinion, Pentax must up the ante. With Nikon bringing a 24MP low-end to market, Pentax will be slaughtered if they keep producing cameras with the same 16MP sensor. It doesn't matter how could the sensor is, or how good the IQ from the camera is. Both those items are qualities that come to bear only AFTER the sale is made. Low-light/high-ISO performance is overall not that important for a significant number of potential buyers. Is it desirable? Yes. But the simple fact is that most people typically take shots in bright sunlight or indoors with flash, and either won't notice or won't mind when the camera occasionally lets them down. An 8 MP difference is the entire image resolution of the 2nd generation DSLR's. It looks significant on paper and, like it or not, is probably the single most significant number buyers look at when purchasing a digital camera, aside from price. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
In my opinion, Pentax must up the ante. With Nikon bringing a 24MP low-end to market, Pentax will be slaughtered if they keep producing cameras with the same 16MP sensor. It doesn't matter how could the sensor is, or how good the IQ from the camera is. Both those items are qualities that come to bear only AFTER the sale is made. Low-light/high-ISO performance is overall not that important for a significant number of potential buyers. Is it desirable? Yes. But the simple fact is that most people typically take shots in bright sunlight or indoors with flash, and either won't notice or won't mind when the camera occasionally lets them down. An 8 MP difference is the entire image resolution of the 2nd generation DSLR's. It looks significant on paper and, like it or not, is probably the single most significant number buyers look at when purchasing a digital camera, aside from price. Tom C. Reminds me of this: http://xkcd.com/1014/ Sincerely, Collin Brendemuehl He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose -- Jim Elliott -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
Tom, Somewhat of a rhetorical question. How many photos posted to PDML in the past week can you point to that would be noticeably better with a 24MP sensor? How many would be cleaner with better high ISO performance? High ISO versus high megapixels in cameras is like fast laptimes versus number of seats in a car. Some of us want a sportscar that is fun to drive around a racetrack, some people want something reliable with good fuel economy, and others want an SUV to carry six kids around town. There is no single right answer. Larry On May 17, 2012, at 7:27 AM, Tom C wrote: Boris wrote: With cautious optimism diluted with a small portion of educatedness I submit to the court that I am starting to get a feeling of deja vu from mid 2000's when we had plethora of cameras all sporting the very same 6 MP sensor... Anyone else care to join me in my deja vu? In my opinion, Pentax must up the ante. With Nikon bringing a 24MP low-end to market, Pentax will be slaughtered if they keep producing cameras with the same 16MP sensor. It doesn't matter how could the sensor is, or how good the IQ from the camera is. Both those items are qualities that come to bear only AFTER the sale is made. Low-light/high-ISO performance is overall not that important for a significant number of potential buyers. Is it desirable? Yes. But the simple fact is that most people typically take shots in bright sunlight or indoors with flash, and either won't notice or won't mind when the camera occasionally lets them down. An 8 MP difference is the entire image resolution of the 2nd generation DSLR's. It looks significant on paper and, like it or not, is probably the single most significant number buyers look at when purchasing a digital camera, aside from price. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On 5/17/2012 19:27, Larry Colen wrote: Tom, Somewhat of a rhetorical question. How many photos posted to PDML in the past week can you point to that would be noticeably better with a 24MP sensor? How many would be cleaner with better high ISO performance? High ISO versus high megapixels in cameras is like fast laptimes versus number of seats in a car. Some of us want a sportscar that is fun to drive around a racetrack, some people want something reliable with good fuel economy, and others want an SUV to carry six kids around town. There is no single right answer. Larry Larry, here is a rhetorical question for you - how many consumers would ask your rhetorical questions if faced by the eager sales person telling them that Nikon D3200 or whatever is the number is ultimate photographic camera they absolutely should buy?! The single right answer will be provided by market/sales statistics whereupon Nikon will again prevail. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
Tom, Somewhat of a rhetorical question. How many photos posted to PDML in the past week can you point to that would be noticeably better with a 24MP sensor? How many would be cleaner with better high ISO performance? High ISO versus high megapixels in cameras is like fast laptimes versus number of seats in a car. Some of us want a sportscar that is fun to drive around a racetrack, some people want something reliable with good fuel economy, and others want an SUV to carry six kids around town. There is no single right answer. Larry Define better. :-) A good or excellent picture shot on a higher MP camera, all other things equal, will probably be a better picture as it contains more detail (of course you know that). A crumby picture shot on a higher MP camera will still be a crumby picture. Maybe crumbier because it contains more crumby detail. All I'm saying is the same that Boris just elicited. Pentax hanging onto a 16MP sensor will not look good when the rest of the world passes them buy. Hopefully the K30 is the last 16MP camera they make. Otherwise, Boris will be right. It doesn't matter how good the camera is, a 16MP sensor camera will be just another boring 16MP camera, just like the endless variety of 6MP *ist D's. Do you remember back in the *ist D days, how some here said '6MP was all they would ever need' and 'why would anyone need more'? Those same people bought a K10D, K20D, K7, K5, and likely will buy whatever the next flagship of Pentax will be. What I seem to hear you implying is that 16MP is a cut off point. I suspect we're just throwing that number around because it happens to represent Pentax's top of the line in APS-C at the moment. So here's a rhetorical question (more or less). If you could get an equal or almost as good high ISO performance in a sensor that has a big jump in base resolution (from which every shot could benefit from), would you? The basic point is Pentax can't sit around in the 16MP realm when other manufacturers have higher MP base models, regardless of how good a 16MP camera it is, and expect to maintain market share. Tom C -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Rumor of a new intro Pentax Body
On May 17, 2012, at 11:04 AM, Tom C wrote: Tom, Somewhat of a rhetorical question. How many photos posted to PDML in the past week can you point to that would be noticeably better with a 24MP sensor? How many would be cleaner with better high ISO performance? High ISO versus high megapixels in cameras is like fast laptimes versus number of seats in a car. Some of us want a sportscar that is fun to drive around a racetrack, some people want something reliable with good fuel economy, and others want an SUV to carry six kids around town. There is no single right answer. Larry Define better. :-) A good or excellent picture shot on a higher MP camera, all other things equal, will probably be a better picture as it contains more detail (of course you know that). And if it is only viewed at, say 2MP resolution on a display ? A crumby picture shot on a higher MP camera will still be a crumby picture. Maybe crumbier because it contains more crumby detail. All I'm saying is the same that Boris just elicited. Pentax hanging onto a 16MP sensor will not look good when the rest of the world passes them buy. Hopefully the K30 is the last 16MP camera they make. Otherwise, Boris will be right. It doesn't matter how good the camera is, a 16MP sensor camera will be just another boring 16MP camera, just like the endless variety of 6MP *ist D's. Do you remember back in the *ist D days, how some here said '6MP was all they would ever need' and 'why would anyone need more'? Those same people bought a K10D, K20D, K7, K5, and likely will buy whatever the next flagship of Pentax will be. Actually, no, I wasn't here then. What I seem to hear you implying is that 16MP is a cut off point. I suspect we're just throwing that number around because it happens to represent Pentax's top of the line in APS-C at the moment. So here's a rhetorical question (more or less). If you could get an equal or almost as good high ISO performance in a sensor that has a big jump in base resolution (from which every shot could benefit from), would you? I'll answer it non rhetorically... If I could have the high ISO performance that the 5DmkIII seems to have, and had to go down to 12, or even 9MP to get it, I would. In much the same way, that given the choice between two more seats in my MG or ten second faster lap times, I'd choose the faster lap times. The basic point is Pentax can't sit around in the 16MP realm when other manufacturers have higher MP base models, regardless of how good a 16MP camera it is, and expect to maintain market share. 24 MP on DSLRs used by most people makes as much sense as 4WD on an SUV that is only driven in LA. Tom C -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
