subject:"k10d and manual\-aperture lenses\?"

k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread David Bliss

Hi all,

I'm new to the list but I've been reading the archives for the last few
weeks so hopefully I will not make too much of a fool of myself.  I'm a long
time amateur user of Pentax 35mm film gear about to buy my first DSLR. I was
minutes away from buying a K100D when the K10D was announced...

I have a lot of manual-aperture K-mount glass, so being able to use it on
a new DSLR is important to me.  I know there are workarounds for using
such on the K100D but they're pretty bad (metering on DOF-preview only
and/or manually setting aperture to match the lens's).

The dpreview page (http://www.dpreview.com/articles/pentaxk10d/page2.asp)
and a few other verbatim copies thereof explicitly says 
"Ability to use lens aperture ring" so I was very excitted to think that
Pentax would have finally fixed this (idiotic) design error on the K10D.

But, the press photos of the K10D clearly show an absence of a mechanical
aperture coupling lever.  And the (mis)released manual from a couple of
days ago documents the same behavior as the K100D.  Can anyone confirm
this for sure one was or the other?

Also, can anyone explain to me why the K100D (and apparently the K10D) disable
(a) non-central AF sensors (for focus confirmation, not AF, obviously) and
(b) all the metering modes except CWA when using a pre-A lens?  I cannot
conceive of any possible reason these features would care about the lens
aperture being set manually.

Thanks!
David Bliss


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Thibouille

The way you will be able to use K/M lenses on K10D will be the same as
on my ist-D/DS. Either DOF or Green button will close the diaphragm,
take the reading and open it again. It is in fact VERY quick and
problematic only for particuliar shooting mode.

Concerning AF sensors, it has always been like that, only the center
ones work wit manual lenses. Moreover a manual lens (or AF BTW)
mounted on the AF converter (1.7X) will only use the  center sensor.
It has always been like that with Pentax AF bodies sonce they have
more than one sensor (MZ-5 and newer).

Conerning meterin there's an even beter reason: for reliable matrix
metering, the body needs to know the minimum aperture value for the
lens. Without electronic contacts (A lenses and all AF ones) the body
has no way of knowing this -> CW and spot is the only solution.

Hope I helped.


Thibault Massart aka Thibouille
--
*ist-D,Z1,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ...

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Tim Øsleby

Welcome onboard David.

I had exactly the same thoughts as you about metering manual lenses before I
tried it. In real life, it is no problem. After 15 minutes using it, you
will get used to it. 
In high speed situation you must think a bit ahead, watching at the light.
If lighting changes you need to re push the button every now and then to
make sure to get the exposure right before the decisive moment. 

Lack of matrix metering is a bit frustrating. But in most situations you can
get around it using the histogram fine tuning the exposure. It's the same as
the green button thing. You need to think a bit ahead, being prepared for
the decisive moment.

But what can you expect. Consider the ability to use old lenses as an extra
bonus. 


Tim
Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
David Bliss
Sent: 8. oktober 2006 10:01
To: pdml@pdml.net
Subject: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

Hi all,

I'm new to the list but I've been reading the archives for the last few
weeks so hopefully I will not make too much of a fool of myself.  I'm a long
time amateur user of Pentax 35mm film gear about to buy my first DSLR. I was
minutes away from buying a K100D when the K10D was announced...

I have a lot of manual-aperture K-mount glass, so being able to use it on
a new DSLR is important to me.  I know there are workarounds for using
such on the K100D but they're pretty bad (metering on DOF-preview only
and/or manually setting aperture to match the lens's).

The dpreview page (http://www.dpreview.com/articles/pentaxk10d/page2.asp)
and a few other verbatim copies thereof explicitly says 
"Ability to use lens aperture ring" so I was very excitted to think that
Pentax would have finally fixed this (idiotic) design error on the K10D.

But, the press photos of the K10D clearly show an absence of a mechanical
aperture coupling lever.  And the (mis)released manual from a couple of
days ago documents the same behavior as the K100D.  Can anyone confirm
this for sure one was or the other?

Also, can anyone explain to me why the K100D (and apparently the K10D)
disable
(a) non-central AF sensors (for focus confirmation, not AF, obviously) and
(b) all the metering modes except CWA when using a pre-A lens?  I cannot
conceive of any possible reason these features would care about the lens
aperture being set manually.

Thanks!
David Bliss


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread J. C. O'Connell

No, an "extra bonus" on a $1000 top line camera would be
A camera that could read the PK PKM lens aperture setting. That this is
Not done is ridiculous as its friggin SIMPLE to implement...
Semi automanual manual is good but it aint open aperture AE
With PK PKM, while is very possible but still is not done.
jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Tim Øsleby
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 10:46 AM
To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

Welcome onboard David.

I had exactly the same thoughts as you about metering manual lenses
before I
tried it. In real life, it is no problem. After 15 minutes using it, you
will get used to it. 
In high speed situation you must think a bit ahead, watching at the
light.
If lighting changes you need to re push the button every now and then to
make sure to get the exposure right before the decisive moment. 

Lack of matrix metering is a bit frustrating. But in most situations you
can
get around it using the histogram fine tuning the exposure. It's the
same as
the green button thing. You need to think a bit ahead, being prepared
for
the decisive moment.

But what can you expect. Consider the ability to use old lenses as an
extra
bonus. 


Tim
Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
David Bliss
Sent: 8. oktober 2006 10:01
To: pdml@pdml.net
Subject: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

Hi all,

I'm new to the list but I've been reading the archives for the last few
weeks so hopefully I will not make too much of a fool of myself.  I'm a
long
time amateur user of Pentax 35mm film gear about to buy my first DSLR. I
was
minutes away from buying a K100D when the K10D was announced...

I have a lot of manual-aperture K-mount glass, so being able to use it
on
a new DSLR is important to me.  I know there are workarounds for using
such on the K100D but they're pretty bad (metering on DOF-preview only
and/or manually setting aperture to match the lens's).

The dpreview page
(http://www.dpreview.com/articles/pentaxk10d/page2.asp)
and a few other verbatim copies thereof explicitly says 
"Ability to use lens aperture ring" so I was very excitted to think that
Pentax would have finally fixed this (idiotic) design error on the K10D.

But, the press photos of the K10D clearly show an absence of a
mechanical
aperture coupling lever.  And the (mis)released manual from a couple of
days ago documents the same behavior as the K100D.  Can anyone confirm
this for sure one was or the other?

Also, can anyone explain to me why the K100D (and apparently the K10D)
disable
(a) non-central AF sensors (for focus confirmation, not AF, obviously)
and
(b) all the metering modes except CWA when using a pre-A lens?  I cannot
conceive of any possible reason these features would care about the lens
aperture being set manually.

Thanks!
David Bliss


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Tim Øsleby

I stand corrected, silly me. My perception is obviously wrong 
[slapping myself happily over forehead]. 

The glass is half empty, not half full.


Tim
Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of J.
C. O'Connell
Sent: 8. oktober 2006 17:03
To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

No, an "extra bonus" on a $1000 top line camera would be
A camera that could read the PK PKM lens aperture setting. That this is
Not done is ridiculous as its friggin SIMPLE to implement...
Semi automanual manual is good but it aint open aperture AE
With PK PKM, while is very possible but still is not done.
jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Tim Øsleby
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 10:46 AM
To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

Welcome onboard David.

I had exactly the same thoughts as you about metering manual lenses
before I
tried it. In real life, it is no problem. After 15 minutes using it, you
will get used to it. 
In high speed situation you must think a bit ahead, watching at the
light.
If lighting changes you need to re push the button every now and then to
make sure to get the exposure right before the decisive moment. 

Lack of matrix metering is a bit frustrating. But in most situations you
can
get around it using the histogram fine tuning the exposure. It's the
same as
the green button thing. You need to think a bit ahead, being prepared
for
the decisive moment.

But what can you expect. Consider the ability to use old lenses as an
extra
bonus. 


Tim
Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
David Bliss
Sent: 8. oktober 2006 10:01
To: pdml@pdml.net
Subject: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

Hi all,

I'm new to the list but I've been reading the archives for the last few
weeks so hopefully I will not make too much of a fool of myself.  I'm a
long
time amateur user of Pentax 35mm film gear about to buy my first DSLR. I
was
minutes away from buying a K100D when the K10D was announced...

I have a lot of manual-aperture K-mount glass, so being able to use it
on
a new DSLR is important to me.  I know there are workarounds for using
such on the K100D but they're pretty bad (metering on DOF-preview only
and/or manually setting aperture to match the lens's).

The dpreview page
(http://www.dpreview.com/articles/pentaxk10d/page2.asp)
and a few other verbatim copies thereof explicitly says 
"Ability to use lens aperture ring" so I was very excitted to think that
Pentax would have finally fixed this (idiotic) design error on the K10D.

But, the press photos of the K10D clearly show an absence of a
mechanical
aperture coupling lever.  And the (mis)released manual from a couple of
days ago documents the same behavior as the K100D.  Can anyone confirm
this for sure one was or the other?

Also, can anyone explain to me why the K100D (and apparently the K10D)
disable
(a) non-central AF sensors (for focus confirmation, not AF, obviously)
and
(b) all the metering modes except CWA when using a pre-A lens?  I cannot
conceive of any possible reason these features would care about the lens
aperture being set manually.

Thanks!
David Bliss


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread J. C. O'Connell

Why settle for shit for no reason?
Glass is still definitely half empty.
jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Tim Øsleby
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:27 AM
To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

I stand corrected, silly me. My perception is obviously wrong 
[slapping myself happily over forehead]. 

The glass is half empty, not half full.

Tim
Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
J.
C. O'Connell
Sent: 8. oktober 2006 17:03
To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

No, an "extra bonus" on a $1000 top line camera would be
A camera that could read the PK PKM lens aperture setting. That this is
Not done is ridiculous as its friggin SIMPLE to implement...
Semi automanual manual is good but it aint open aperture AE
With PK PKM, while is very possible but still is not done.
jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Tim Øsleby
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 10:46 AM
To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

Welcome onboard David.

I had exactly the same thoughts as you about metering manual lenses
before I
tried it. In real life, it is no problem. After 15 minutes using it, you
will get used to it. 
In high speed situation you must think a bit ahead, watching at the
light.
If lighting changes you need to re push the button every now and then to
make sure to get the exposure right before the decisive moment. 

Lack of matrix metering is a bit frustrating. But in most situations you
can
get around it using the histogram fine tuning the exposure. It's the
same as
the green button thing. You need to think a bit ahead, being prepared
for
the decisive moment.

But what can you expect. Consider the ability to use old lenses as an
extra
bonus. 

Tim
Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
David Bliss
Sent: 8. oktober 2006 10:01
To: pdml@pdml.net
Subject: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

Hi all,

I'm new to the list but I've been reading the archives for the last few
weeks so hopefully I will not make too much of a fool of myself.  I'm a
long
time amateur user of Pentax 35mm film gear about to buy my first DSLR. I
was
minutes away from buying a K100D when the K10D was announced...

I have a lot of manual-aperture K-mount glass, so being able to use it
on
a new DSLR is important to me.  I know there are workarounds for using
such on the K100D but they're pretty bad (metering on DOF-preview only
and/or manually setting aperture to match the lens's).

The dpreview page
(http://www.dpreview.com/articles/pentaxk10d/page2.asp)
and a few other verbatim copies thereof explicitly says 
"Ability to use lens aperture ring" so I was very excitted to think that
Pentax would have finally fixed this (idiotic) design error on the K10D.

But, the press photos of the K10D clearly show an absence of a
mechanical
aperture coupling lever.  And the (mis)released manual from a couple of
days ago documents the same behavior as the K100D.  Can anyone confirm
this for sure one was or the other?

Also, can anyone explain to me why the K100D (and apparently the K10D)
disable
(a) non-central AF sensors (for focus confirmation, not AF, obviously)
and
(b) all the metering modes except CWA when using a pre-A lens?  I cannot
conceive of any possible reason these features would care about the lens
aperture being set manually.

Thanks!
David Bliss

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread P. J. Alling

No the glass is twice as big as it has to be...

Tim Øsleby wrote:

>I stand corrected, silly me. My perception is obviously wrong 
>[slapping myself happily over forehead]. 
>
>The glass is half empty, not half full.
>
>
>Tim
>Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
> 
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of J.
>C. O'Connell
>Sent: 8. oktober 2006 17:03
>To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>
>No, an "extra bonus" on a $1000 top line camera would be
>A camera that could read the PK PKM lens aperture setting. That this is
>Not done is ridiculous as its friggin SIMPLE to implement...
>Semi automanual manual is good but it aint open aperture AE
>With PK PKM, while is very possible but still is not done.
>jco
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
>Tim Øsleby
>Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 10:46 AM
>To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>
>Welcome onboard David.
>
>I had exactly the same thoughts as you about metering manual lenses
>before I
>tried it. In real life, it is no problem. After 15 minutes using it, you
>will get used to it. 
>In high speed situation you must think a bit ahead, watching at the
>light.
>If lighting changes you need to re push the button every now and then to
>make sure to get the exposure right before the decisive moment. 
>
>Lack of matrix metering is a bit frustrating. But in most situations you
>can
>get around it using the histogram fine tuning the exposure. It's the
>same as
>the green button thing. You need to think a bit ahead, being prepared
>for
>the decisive moment.
>
>But what can you expect. Consider the ability to use old lenses as an
>extra
>bonus. 
>
>
>Tim
>Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
> 
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
>David Bliss
>Sent: 8. oktober 2006 10:01
>To: pdml@pdml.net
>Subject: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>
>Hi all,
>
>I'm new to the list but I've been reading the archives for the last few
>weeks so hopefully I will not make too much of a fool of myself.  I'm a
>long
>time amateur user of Pentax 35mm film gear about to buy my first DSLR. I
>was
>minutes away from buying a K100D when the K10D was announced...
>
>I have a lot of manual-aperture K-mount glass, so being able to use it
>on
>a new DSLR is important to me.  I know there are workarounds for using
>such on the K100D but they're pretty bad (metering on DOF-preview only
>and/or manually setting aperture to match the lens's).
>
>The dpreview page
>(http://www.dpreview.com/articles/pentaxk10d/page2.asp)
>and a few other verbatim copies thereof explicitly says 
>"Ability to use lens aperture ring" so I was very excitted to think that
>Pentax would have finally fixed this (idiotic) design error on the K10D.
>
>But, the press photos of the K10D clearly show an absence of a
>mechanical
>aperture coupling lever.  And the (mis)released manual from a couple of
>days ago documents the same behavior as the K100D.  Can anyone confirm
>this for sure one was or the other?
>
>Also, can anyone explain to me why the K100D (and apparently the K10D)
>disable
>(a) non-central AF sensors (for focus confirmation, not AF, obviously)
>and
>(b) all the metering modes except CWA when using a pre-A lens?  I cannot
>conceive of any possible reason these features would care about the lens
>aperture being set manually.
>
>Thanks!
>David Bliss
>
>
>  
>


-- 
Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler.

--Albert Einstein



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Shel Belinkoff

It's the same old song from JCO every time the subject comes up.  I think
we all know his view on this by now.  I don't recall, but does he have a
Pentax DSLR?

I will say this, however, it may be easier for some to adjust to the "green
button" approach than others.  For example, having come from meterless
cameras and using hand held meters, pushing the AEL button on the DS and,
if desired, checking exposure with the DOF lever, sure makes using pre-A
lenses easy.  However, I still shoot more than 50% of my shots using my own
exposure guide, the one that's built into my head, rather than using the
meter in the camera at every shot.

Shel



> [Original Message]
> From: Tim Øsleby 

> I stand corrected, silly me. My perception is obviously 
> wrong  [slapping myself happily over forehead]. 
>
> The glass is half empty, not half full.


> -Original Message-
> From: J. C. O'Connell

> No, an "extra bonus" on a $1000 top line 
> camera would be A camera that could read 
> the PK PKM lens aperture setting. That this is
> Not done is ridiculous as its friggin SIMPLE 
> to implement... Semi automanual manual is 
> good but it aint open aperture AE With PK 
> PKM, while is very possible but still is not done.



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Adam Maas

In practice, the 'Green Button'/AE-lock hack on the DSLR's is simple and 
easy to use. You always set aperture on the lens for non-A lenses, and 
either hit the AE-Lock (Green Button on D/K10D) and it immediately sets 
an appropriate shutter speed or you use the DoF preview to get a 
metering readout. I usually do the former and it works very well.

Av mode is usable with adaptor-mounted glass (since that is stop-down on 
any K mount body and doesn't have the aperture coupling either) or 
wide-open with pre-A glass. The latter is surprisingly useful for a 
serious low-light shooter like me.

Frankly working with MF glass on the K100D is less hassle than using the 
same glass on my MX (Or any other purely manual body).

-Adam

David Bliss wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm new to the list but I've been reading the archives for the last few
> weeks so hopefully I will not make too much of a fool of myself.  I'm a long
> time amateur user of Pentax 35mm film gear about to buy my first DSLR. I was
> minutes away from buying a K100D when the K10D was announced...
> 
> I have a lot of manual-aperture K-mount glass, so being able to use it on
> a new DSLR is important to me.  I know there are workarounds for using
> such on the K100D but they're pretty bad (metering on DOF-preview only
> and/or manually setting aperture to match the lens's).
> 
> The dpreview page (http://www.dpreview.com/articles/pentaxk10d/page2.asp)
> and a few other verbatim copies thereof explicitly says 
> "Ability to use lens aperture ring" so I was very excitted to think that
> Pentax would have finally fixed this (idiotic) design error on the K10D.
> 
> But, the press photos of the K10D clearly show an absence of a mechanical
> aperture coupling lever.  And the (mis)released manual from a couple of
> days ago documents the same behavior as the K100D.  Can anyone confirm
> this for sure one was or the other?
> 
> Also, can anyone explain to me why the K100D (and apparently the K10D) disable
> (a) non-central AF sensors (for focus confirmation, not AF, obviously) and
> (b) all the metering modes except CWA when using a pre-A lens?  I cannot
> conceive of any possible reason these features would care about the lens
> aperture being set manually.
> 
> Thanks!
> David Bliss
> 
> 

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Adam Maas

Because it ain't shit.

The green button hack is one of the reasons I bought the K100D to 
replace my D50. Some metering is better than no metering. And that's the 
choice we're faced with.

The Aperture Simulator is dead. Deal With It. Those of us who shoot with 
K glass and the DSLR's are doing just fine.

-Adam


J. C. O'Connell wrote:
> Why settle for shit for no reason?
> Glass is still definitely half empty.
> jco
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Tim Øsleby
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:27 AM
> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> 
> I stand corrected, silly me. My perception is obviously wrong 
> [slapping myself happily over forehead]. 
> 
> The glass is half empty, not half full.
> 
> 
> Tim
> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>  
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> J.
> C. O'Connell
> Sent: 8. oktober 2006 17:03
> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> 
> No, an "extra bonus" on a $1000 top line camera would be
> A camera that could read the PK PKM lens aperture setting. That this is
> Not done is ridiculous as its friggin SIMPLE to implement...
> Semi automanual manual is good but it aint open aperture AE
> With PK PKM, while is very possible but still is not done.
> jco
> 
> -Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Tim Øsleby
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 10:46 AM
> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> 
> Welcome onboard David.
> 
> I had exactly the same thoughts as you about metering manual lenses
> before I
> tried it. In real life, it is no problem. After 15 minutes using it, you
> will get used to it. 
> In high speed situation you must think a bit ahead, watching at the
> light.
> If lighting changes you need to re push the button every now and then to
> make sure to get the exposure right before the decisive moment. 
> 
> Lack of matrix metering is a bit frustrating. But in most situations you
> can
> get around it using the histogram fine tuning the exposure. It's the
> same as
> the green button thing. You need to think a bit ahead, being prepared
> for
> the decisive moment.
> 
> But what can you expect. Consider the ability to use old lenses as an
> extra
> bonus. 
> 
> 
> Tim
> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>  
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> David Bliss
> Sent: 8. oktober 2006 10:01
> To: pdml@pdml.net
> Subject: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm new to the list but I've been reading the archives for the last few
> weeks so hopefully I will not make too much of a fool of myself.  I'm a
> long
> time amateur user of Pentax 35mm film gear about to buy my first DSLR. I
> was
> minutes away from buying a K100D when the K10D was announced...
> 
> I have a lot of manual-aperture K-mount glass, so being able to use it
> on
> a new DSLR is important to me.  I know there are workarounds for using
> such on the K100D but they're pretty bad (metering on DOF-preview only
> and/or manually setting aperture to match the lens's).
> 
> The dpreview page
> (http://www.dpreview.com/articles/pentaxk10d/page2.asp)
> and a few other verbatim copies thereof explicitly says 
> "Ability to use lens aperture ring" so I was very excitted to think that
> Pentax would have finally fixed this (idiotic) design error on the K10D.
> 
> But, the press photos of the K10D clearly show an absence of a
> mechanical
> aperture coupling lever.  And the (mis)released manual from a couple of
> days ago documents the same behavior as the K100D.  Can anyone confirm
> this for sure one was or the other?
> 
> Also, can anyone explain to me why the K100D (and apparently the K10D)
> disable
> (a) non-central AF sensors (for focus confirmation, not AF, obviously)
> and
> (b) all the metering modes except CWA when using a pre-A lens?  I cannot
> conceive of any possible reason these features would care about the lens
> aperture being set manually.
> 
> Thanks!
> David Bliss
> 
> 


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread William Robb

- Original Message - 
From: "Tim Øsleby"
Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

I know that now.
>From now on I will look for limitations in my equipment.

JCO.
Sorry about my sarcastic reply. The compatibility could have been solved
better, I agree on that.
But I prefer looking forward, looking for solutions instead of beating 
this
dead horse. I don't believe irritation over this minor issue (for me) 
will
make me a better photographer.

Don't be sorry. This has been one of John's ongoing peeves for some time 
now, and he takes every opportunity possible to air it out.
Most of us have accepted the fact that the aperture simulator coupling 
is gone (though not happily), and are getting on with things.

William Robb 

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread P. J. Alling

Adam Maas wrote:

>In practice, the 'Green Button'/AE-lock hack on the DSLR's is simple and 
>easy to use. You always set aperture on the lens for non-A lenses, and 
>either hit the AE-Lock (Green Button on D/K10D) and it immediately sets 
>an appropriate shutter speed or you use the DoF preview to get a 
>metering readout. I usually do the former and it works very well.
>
>Av mode is usable with adaptor-mounted glass (since that is stop-down on 
>any K mount body and doesn't have the aperture coupling either) or 
>wide-open with pre-A glass. The latter is surprisingly useful for a 
>serious low-light shooter like me.
>
>Frankly working with MF glass on the K100D is less hassle than using the 
>same glass on my MX (Or any other purely manual body).
>
>-Adam
>
>  
>
I'm getting tired of you saying this, you obviously don't understand, or 
choose to ignore the limitations of light meters.

>
>David Bliss wrote:
>  
>
>>Hi all,
>>
>>I'm new to the list but I've been reading the archives for the last few
>>weeks so hopefully I will not make too much of a fool of myself.  I'm a long
>>time amateur user of Pentax 35mm film gear about to buy my first DSLR. I was
>>minutes away from buying a K100D when the K10D was announced...
>>
>>I have a lot of manual-aperture K-mount glass, so being able to use it on
>>a new DSLR is important to me.  I know there are workarounds for using
>>such on the K100D but they're pretty bad (metering on DOF-preview only
>>and/or manually setting aperture to match the lens's).
>>
>>The dpreview page (http://www.dpreview.com/articles/pentaxk10d/page2.asp)
>>and a few other verbatim copies thereof explicitly says 
>>"Ability to use lens aperture ring" so I was very excitted to think that
>>Pentax would have finally fixed this (idiotic) design error on the K10D.
>>
>>But, the press photos of the K10D clearly show an absence of a mechanical
>>aperture coupling lever.  And the (mis)released manual from a couple of
>>days ago documents the same behavior as the K100D.  Can anyone confirm
>>this for sure one was or the other?
>>
>>Also, can anyone explain to me why the K100D (and apparently the K10D) disable
>>(a) non-central AF sensors (for focus confirmation, not AF, obviously) and
>>(b) all the metering modes except CWA when using a pre-A lens?  I cannot
>>conceive of any possible reason these features would care about the lens
>>aperture being set manually.
>>
>>Thanks!
>>David Bliss
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>  
>


-- 
Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler.

--Albert Einstein



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Tim Øsleby

I know that now. 
>From now on I will look for limitations in my equipment. 

JCO. 
Sorry about my sarcastic reply. The compatibility could have been solved
better, I agree on that. 
But I prefer looking forward, looking for solutions instead of beating this
dead horse. I don't believe irritation over this minor issue (for me) will
make me a better photographer. 


Tim
Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of J.
C. O'Connell
Sent: 8. oktober 2006 17:34
To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

Why settle for shit for no reason?
Glass is still definitely half empty.
jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Tim Øsleby
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:27 AM
To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

I stand corrected, silly me. My perception is obviously wrong 
[slapping myself happily over forehead]. 

The glass is half empty, not half full.


Tim
Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
J.
C. O'Connell
Sent: 8. oktober 2006 17:03
To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

No, an "extra bonus" on a $1000 top line camera would be
A camera that could read the PK PKM lens aperture setting. That this is
Not done is ridiculous as its friggin SIMPLE to implement...
Semi automanual manual is good but it aint open aperture AE
With PK PKM, while is very possible but still is not done.
jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Tim Øsleby
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 10:46 AM
To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

Welcome onboard David.

I had exactly the same thoughts as you about metering manual lenses
before I
tried it. In real life, it is no problem. After 15 minutes using it, you
will get used to it. 
In high speed situation you must think a bit ahead, watching at the
light.
If lighting changes you need to re push the button every now and then to
make sure to get the exposure right before the decisive moment. 

Lack of matrix metering is a bit frustrating. But in most situations you
can
get around it using the histogram fine tuning the exposure. It's the
same as
the green button thing. You need to think a bit ahead, being prepared
for
the decisive moment.

But what can you expect. Consider the ability to use old lenses as an
extra
bonus. 


Tim
Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
David Bliss
Sent: 8. oktober 2006 10:01
To: pdml@pdml.net
Subject: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

Hi all,

I'm new to the list but I've been reading the archives for the last few
weeks so hopefully I will not make too much of a fool of myself.  I'm a
long
time amateur user of Pentax 35mm film gear about to buy my first DSLR. I
was
minutes away from buying a K100D when the K10D was announced...

I have a lot of manual-aperture K-mount glass, so being able to use it
on
a new DSLR is important to me.  I know there are workarounds for using
such on the K100D but they're pretty bad (metering on DOF-preview only
and/or manually setting aperture to match the lens's).

The dpreview page
(http://www.dpreview.com/articles/pentaxk10d/page2.asp)
and a few other verbatim copies thereof explicitly says 
"Ability to use lens aperture ring" so I was very excitted to think that
Pentax would have finally fixed this (idiotic) design error on the K10D.

But, the press photos of the K10D clearly show an absence of a
mechanical
aperture coupling lever.  And the (mis)released manual from a couple of
days ago documents the same behavior as the K100D.  Can anyone confirm
this for sure one was or the other?

Also, can anyone explain to me why the K100D (and apparently the K10D)
disable
(a) non-central AF sensors (for focus confirmation, not AF, obviously)
and
(b) all the metering modes except CWA when using a pre-A lens?  I cannot
conceive of any possible reason these features would care about the lens
aperture being set manually.

Thanks!
David Bliss


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread William Robb


- Original Message - 
From: "Adam Maas"
Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?


> In practice, the 'Green Button'/AE-lock hack on the DSLR's is simple 
> and
> easy to use. You always set aperture on the lens for non-A lenses, and
> either hit the AE-Lock (Green Button on D/K10D) and it immediately 
> sets
> an appropriate shutter speed or you use the DoF preview to get a
> metering readout. I usually do the former and it works very well.
>
> Av mode is usable with adaptor-mounted glass (since that is stop-down 
> on
> any K mount body and doesn't have the aperture coupling either) or
> wide-open with pre-A glass. The latter is surprisingly useful for a
> serious low-light shooter like me.
>
> Frankly working with MF glass on the K100D is less hassle than using 
> the
> same glass on my MX (Or any other purely manual body).

You do have to keep an eye on things, since it is possible to run the 
meter out of range pretty quickly. It's a good idea to have a clue about 
what the shutter speed should be with the aperture chosen.

William Robb 



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread J. C. O'Connell

But the DSLR are NOT manual bodies...DUH.
With the on board CPUs the PK/PKM lens
Implementation would be child's play.
Why compare a manual body to DSLR?
The DSLR should be compared to LX/KX
Which had these features 25-30 YEARS ago!
jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Adam Maas
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:43 AM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

In practice, the 'Green Button'/AE-lock hack on the DSLR's is simple and

easy to use. You always set aperture on the lens for non-A lenses, and 
either hit the AE-Lock (Green Button on D/K10D) and it immediately sets 
an appropriate shutter speed or you use the DoF preview to get a 
metering readout. I usually do the former and it works very well.

Av mode is usable with adaptor-mounted glass (since that is stop-down on

any K mount body and doesn't have the aperture coupling either) or 
wide-open with pre-A glass. The latter is surprisingly useful for a 
serious low-light shooter like me.

Frankly working with MF glass on the K100D is less hassle than using the

same glass on my MX (Or any other purely manual body).

-Adam



David Bliss wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm new to the list but I've been reading the archives for the last
few
> weeks so hopefully I will not make too much of a fool of myself.  I'm
a long
> time amateur user of Pentax 35mm film gear about to buy my first DSLR.
I was
> minutes away from buying a K100D when the K10D was announced...
> 
> I have a lot of manual-aperture K-mount glass, so being able to use it
on
> a new DSLR is important to me.  I know there are workarounds for using
> such on the K100D but they're pretty bad (metering on DOF-preview only
> and/or manually setting aperture to match the lens's).
> 
> The dpreview page
(http://www.dpreview.com/articles/pentaxk10d/page2.asp)
> and a few other verbatim copies thereof explicitly says 
> "Ability to use lens aperture ring" so I was very excitted to think
that
> Pentax would have finally fixed this (idiotic) design error on the
K10D.
> 
> But, the press photos of the K10D clearly show an absence of a
mechanical
> aperture coupling lever.  And the (mis)released manual from a couple
of
> days ago documents the same behavior as the K100D.  Can anyone confirm
> this for sure one was or the other?
> 
> Also, can anyone explain to me why the K100D (and apparently the K10D)
disable
> (a) non-central AF sensors (for focus confirmation, not AF, obviously)
and
> (b) all the metering modes except CWA when using a pre-A lens?  I
cannot
> conceive of any possible reason these features would care about the
lens
> aperture being set manually.
> 
> Thanks!
> David Bliss
> 
> 


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread J. C. O'Connell

Bullshit. There is nothing to prevent its implementation
In the future, either by Pentax or other camera makers
Using the PK mount.
jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Adam Maas
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:45 AM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

Because it ain't shit.

The green button hack is one of the reasons I bought the K100D to 
replace my D50. Some metering is better than no metering. And that's the

choice we're faced with.

The Aperture Simulator is dead. Deal With It. Those of us who shoot with

K glass and the DSLR's are doing just fine.

-Adam


J. C. O'Connell wrote:
> Why settle for shit for no reason?
> Glass is still definitely half empty.
> jco
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of
> Tim Øsleby
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:27 AM
> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> 
> I stand corrected, silly me. My perception is obviously wrong 
> [slapping myself happily over forehead]. 
> 
> The glass is half empty, not half full.
> 
> 
> Tim
> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>  
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of
> J.
> C. O'Connell
> Sent: 8. oktober 2006 17:03
> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> 
> No, an "extra bonus" on a $1000 top line camera would be
> A camera that could read the PK PKM lens aperture setting. That this
is
> Not done is ridiculous as its friggin SIMPLE to implement...
> Semi automanual manual is good but it aint open aperture AE
> With PK PKM, while is very possible but still is not done.
> jco
> 
> -Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of
> Tim Øsleby
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 10:46 AM
> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> 
> Welcome onboard David.
> 
> I had exactly the same thoughts as you about metering manual lenses
> before I
> tried it. In real life, it is no problem. After 15 minutes using it,
you
> will get used to it. 
> In high speed situation you must think a bit ahead, watching at the
> light.
> If lighting changes you need to re push the button every now and then
to
> make sure to get the exposure right before the decisive moment. 
> 
> Lack of matrix metering is a bit frustrating. But in most situations
you
> can
> get around it using the histogram fine tuning the exposure. It's the
> same as
> the green button thing. You need to think a bit ahead, being prepared
> for
> the decisive moment.
> 
> But what can you expect. Consider the ability to use old lenses as an
> extra
> bonus. 
> 
> 
> Tim
> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>  
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of
> David Bliss
> Sent: 8. oktober 2006 10:01
> To: pdml@pdml.net
> Subject: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm new to the list but I've been reading the archives for the last
few
> weeks so hopefully I will not make too much of a fool of myself.  I'm
a
> long
> time amateur user of Pentax 35mm film gear about to buy my first DSLR.
I
> was
> minutes away from buying a K100D when the K10D was announced...
> 
> I have a lot of manual-aperture K-mount glass, so being able to use it
> on
> a new DSLR is important to me.  I know there are workarounds for using
> such on the K100D but they're pretty bad (metering on DOF-preview only
> and/or manually setting aperture to match the lens's).
> 
> The dpreview page
> (http://www.dpreview.com/articles/pentaxk10d/page2.asp)
> and a few other verbatim copies thereof explicitly says 
> "Ability to use lens aperture ring" so I was very excitted to think
that
> Pentax would have finally fixed this (idiotic) design error on the
K10D.
> 
> But, the press photos of the K10D clearly show an absence of a
> mechanical
> aperture coupling lever.  And the (mis)released manual from a couple
of
> days ago documents the same behavior as the K100D.  Can anyone confirm
> this for sure one was or the other?
> 
> Also, can anyone explain to me why the K100D (and apparently the K10D)
> disable
> (a) non-central AF sensors (for focus confirmation, not AF, obviously)
> and
> (b) all the metering modes except CWA when using a pre-A lens?  I
cannot
> conceive of any possible reason these features would care about the
lens
> aperture being set manually.
> 
> Thanks!
> David Bliss
> 
> 


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Adam Maas

William Robb wrote:
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Adam Maas"
> Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> 
> 
>> In practice, the 'Green Button'/AE-lock hack on the DSLR's is simple 
>> and
>> easy to use. You always set aperture on the lens for non-A lenses, and
>> either hit the AE-Lock (Green Button on D/K10D) and it immediately 
>> sets
>> an appropriate shutter speed or you use the DoF preview to get a
>> metering readout. I usually do the former and it works very well.
>>
>> Av mode is usable with adaptor-mounted glass (since that is stop-down 
>> on
>> any K mount body and doesn't have the aperture coupling either) or
>> wide-open with pre-A glass. The latter is surprisingly useful for a
>> serious low-light shooter like me.
>>
>> Frankly working with MF glass on the K100D is less hassle than using 
>> the
>> same glass on my MX (Or any other purely manual body).
> 
> You do have to keep an eye on things, since it is possible to run the 
> meter out of range pretty quickly. It's a good idea to have a clue about 
> what the shutter speed should be with the aperture chosen.
> 
> William Robb 
> 

Agreed.

Frankly, if you're going to use old glass, you should know what you're 
doing with regards to exposure and be paying attention. Of course, 
that's a useful skill even shooting within the metering range with A and 
later glass.

Note I successfully shot for quite a while with the D50 and AI-era 
glass, which utterly lacks metering of any sort. And after the first 
week or two I was shooting 1-2 test shots for each lighting condition 
and leaving it at that. It's a good way to learn to expose (So is 
shooting RVP50 in a TLR with no meter and only an exposure calculator)

-Adam

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Adam Maas

P. J. Alling wrote:
> Adam Maas wrote:
> 
>> In practice, the 'Green Button'/AE-lock hack on the DSLR's is simple and 
>> easy to use. You always set aperture on the lens for non-A lenses, and 
>> either hit the AE-Lock (Green Button on D/K10D) and it immediately sets 
>> an appropriate shutter speed or you use the DoF preview to get a 
>> metering readout. I usually do the former and it works very well.
>>
>> Av mode is usable with adaptor-mounted glass (since that is stop-down on 
>> any K mount body and doesn't have the aperture coupling either) or 
>> wide-open with pre-A glass. The latter is surprisingly useful for a 
>> serious low-light shooter like me.
>>
>> Frankly working with MF glass on the K100D is less hassle than using the 
>> same glass on my MX (Or any other purely manual body).
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>>  
>>
> I'm getting tired of you saying this, you obviously don't understand, or 
> choose to ignore the limitations of light meters.
> 

I fully understand the limitations. And I work around them. And I shoot 
with the AE-Lock hack all the time, even in rather low light. It works 
just fine 90% of the time, and when it doesn't is typically when the MX 
would be out of it's metering range anyways (The LX on the other hand 
would still be well within its range).

You may be getting tired of me saying this, but that doesn't change the 
fact that it accurately describes my experience with the hack, on both 
the *istD and now the K100D (I will note the K100D seems to have a more 
linear meter response at the low end, the D did run into issues with 
stop down metering in very low light (1 second or longer shutter speeds 
at ISO 400 or so).

And yes, I find it to be less hassle overall than using the shutter 
speed dial on the MX, or the LX in manual mode.

-Adam

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Adam Maas

Because I shoot DSLR's and manual bodies. Can't compare to what I don't 
use. And other than the Manual and Aperture priority bodies, K/M lenses 
do not have full function on other bodies (No Shutter Priority or 
Program, no Matrix Metering).

-Adam


J. C. O'Connell wrote:
> But the DSLR are NOT manual bodies...DUH.
> With the on board CPUs the PK/PKM lens
> Implementation would be child's play.
> Why compare a manual body to DSLR?
> The DSLR should be compared to LX/KX
> Which had these features 25-30 YEARS ago!
> jco
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Adam Maas
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:43 AM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> 
> In practice, the 'Green Button'/AE-lock hack on the DSLR's is simple and
> 
> easy to use. You always set aperture on the lens for non-A lenses, and 
> either hit the AE-Lock (Green Button on D/K10D) and it immediately sets 
> an appropriate shutter speed or you use the DoF preview to get a 
> metering readout. I usually do the former and it works very well.
> 
> Av mode is usable with adaptor-mounted glass (since that is stop-down on
> 
> any K mount body and doesn't have the aperture coupling either) or 
> wide-open with pre-A glass. The latter is surprisingly useful for a 
> serious low-light shooter like me.
> 
> Frankly working with MF glass on the K100D is less hassle than using the
> 
> same glass on my MX (Or any other purely manual body).
> 
> -Adam
> 
> 
> 
> David Bliss wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm new to the list but I've been reading the archives for the last
> few
>> weeks so hopefully I will not make too much of a fool of myself.  I'm
> a long
>> time amateur user of Pentax 35mm film gear about to buy my first DSLR.
> I was
>> minutes away from buying a K100D when the K10D was announced...
>>
>> I have a lot of manual-aperture K-mount glass, so being able to use it
> on
>> a new DSLR is important to me.  I know there are workarounds for using
>> such on the K100D but they're pretty bad (metering on DOF-preview only
>> and/or manually setting aperture to match the lens's).
>>
>> The dpreview page
> (http://www.dpreview.com/articles/pentaxk10d/page2.asp)
>> and a few other verbatim copies thereof explicitly says 
>> "Ability to use lens aperture ring" so I was very excitted to think
> that
>> Pentax would have finally fixed this (idiotic) design error on the
> K10D.
>> But, the press photos of the K10D clearly show an absence of a
> mechanical
>> aperture coupling lever.  And the (mis)released manual from a couple
> of
>> days ago documents the same behavior as the K100D.  Can anyone confirm
>> this for sure one was or the other?
>>
>> Also, can anyone explain to me why the K100D (and apparently the K10D)
> disable
>> (a) non-central AF sensors (for focus confirmation, not AF, obviously)
> and
>> (b) all the metering modes except CWA when using a pre-A lens?  I
> cannot
>> conceive of any possible reason these features would care about the
> lens
>> aperture being set manually.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> David Bliss
>>
>>
> 
> 


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread J. C. O'Connell

Look you can apologize all you want for pentax
But I have over two dozen world class NICE manual focus
Pentax PK/PKM lenses and I DONT BUY what I dont
Want. I wanted K/KM support in the new top line
Body, if you dont, that doesnt matter to me
One Iota. ALL of the later Pentax MF lenses are 
Garbage including the "A" series compared to the K/M
Lenses in terms of build quality and user "feel".

Gimme a friggin break with your "you dont own a pentax DSLR
So you dont know what youre talking about" B.S.

I never said I wouldnt buy the istD,K100,or K10 but God
Damn I would buy one yesterday if it had the key features
I want. Secondly I think the whole point of 35mm/DSLR
Is fast work and good automation. If I have time to slow
Down for every shot I would use MF/LF all the time.

jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Shel Belinkoff
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:43 AM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

It's the same old song from JCO every time the subject comes up.  I
think
we all know his view on this by now.  I don't recall, but does he have a
Pentax DSLR?

I will say this, however, it may be easier for some to adjust to the
"green
button" approach than others.  For example, having come from meterless
cameras and using hand held meters, pushing the AEL button on the DS
and,
if desired, checking exposure with the DOF lever, sure makes using pre-A
lenses easy.  However, I still shoot more than 50% of my shots using my
own
exposure guide, the one that's built into my head, rather than using the
meter in the camera at every shot.

Shel



> [Original Message]
> From: Tim Øsleby 

> I stand corrected, silly me. My perception is obviously 
> wrong  [slapping myself happily over forehead]. 
>
> The glass is half empty, not half full.


> -Original Message-
> From: J. C. O'Connell

> No, an "extra bonus" on a $1000 top line 
> camera would be A camera that could read 
> the PK PKM lens aperture setting. That this is
> Not done is ridiculous as its friggin SIMPLE 
> to implement... Semi automanual manual is 
> good but it aint open aperture AE With PK 
> PKM, while is very possible but still is not done.





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Adam Maas

No, there is nothing to prevent it being re-implemented. But the Camera 
makers in the position to do so (Nikon and Pentax, the only two of major 
makers stillusing their MF mount) have written it off on consumer and 
semi-pro bodies a number of years ago. This happened in the film era, 
we've actually got more functionality on the Pentax DSLR's than on many 
recent film bodies (*ist, MZ-30/50/60, many more on the Nikon side).

Would I like to see the Aperture Simulator return? Hell Yes. Do I expect 
it? Not unless Pentax makes a K1D. Can I live without it? Most Assuredly.

-Adam



J. C. O'Connell wrote:
> Bullshit. There is nothing to prevent its implementation
> In the future, either by Pentax or other camera makers
> Using the PK mount.
> jco
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Adam Maas
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:45 AM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> 
> Because it ain't shit.
> 
> The green button hack is one of the reasons I bought the K100D to 
> replace my D50. Some metering is better than no metering. And that's the
> 
> choice we're faced with.
> 
> The Aperture Simulator is dead. Deal With It. Those of us who shoot with
> 
> K glass and the DSLR's are doing just fine.
> 
> -Adam
> 
> 
> J. C. O'Connell wrote:
>> Why settle for shit for no reason?
>> Glass is still definitely half empty.
>> jco
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of
>> Tim Øsleby
>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:27 AM
>> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>> I stand corrected, silly me. My perception is obviously wrong 
>> [slapping myself happily over forehead]. 
>>
>> The glass is half empty, not half full.
>>
>>
>> Tim
>> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>>  
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of
>> J.
>> C. O'Connell
>> Sent: 8. oktober 2006 17:03
>> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>> No, an "extra bonus" on a $1000 top line camera would be
>> A camera that could read the PK PKM lens aperture setting. That this
> is
>> Not done is ridiculous as its friggin SIMPLE to implement...
>> Semi automanual manual is good but it aint open aperture AE
>> With PK PKM, while is very possible but still is not done.
>> jco
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of
>> Tim Øsleby
>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 10:46 AM
>> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>> Welcome onboard David.
>>
>> I had exactly the same thoughts as you about metering manual lenses
>> before I
>> tried it. In real life, it is no problem. After 15 minutes using it,
> you
>> will get used to it. 
>> In high speed situation you must think a bit ahead, watching at the
>> light.
>> If lighting changes you need to re push the button every now and then
> to
>> make sure to get the exposure right before the decisive moment. 
>>
>> Lack of matrix metering is a bit frustrating. But in most situations
> you
>> can
>> get around it using the histogram fine tuning the exposure. It's the
>> same as
>> the green button thing. You need to think a bit ahead, being prepared
>> for
>> the decisive moment.
>>
>> But what can you expect. Consider the ability to use old lenses as an
>> extra
>> bonus. 
>>
>>
>> Tim
>> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>>  
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of
>> David Bliss
>> Sent: 8. oktober 2006 10:01
>> To: pdml@pdml.net
>> Subject: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm new to the list but I've been reading the archives for the last
> few
>> weeks so hopefully I will not make too much of a fool of myself.  I'm
> a
>> long
>> time amateur user of Pentax 35mm film gear about to buy my first DSLR.
> I
>> was
>> minutes away from buying a K100D when the K10D was announced...
>>
>> I have a lot of manual-aperture K-mount glass, so being able to use it
>> on
>> a new DSLR

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread William Robb

John, why don't you get off this particular pot of shite. You aren't 
saying anything new, nor anything we haven't read from you on at least a 
dozen other occassions.
The best information that anyone onlist has been able to get is that the 
aperture simulator coupling is a gone, never to return.

If you feel that strongly, write a letter to Pentax Japan.

William Robb 



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Adam Maas

Pushing 2 buttons instead of one is slowing down?

I also shoot with K/M lenses, don't own as many as you, but 2 of my 3 
main lenses are K/M (Kiron 28/2, SMC-M 50/2, SMC-A 70-210) and I shoot 
with a couple of screwmount lenses too.

You don't shoot with a Pentax DSLR, so you don't know how simple it is 
in actual practice. Until you've tried it in the field, you won't. 
Experience is the telling point here (I thought it would be a hassle 
myself when I bought the D. It wasn't).

-Adam


J. C. O'Connell wrote:
> Look you can apologize all you want for pentax
> But I have over two dozen world class NICE manual focus
> Pentax PK/PKM lenses and I DON’T BUY what I don’t
> Want. I wanted K/KM support in the new top line
> Body, if you don’t, that doesn’t matter to me
> One Iota. ALL of the later Pentax MF lenses are 
> Garbage including the "A" series compared to the K/M
> Lenses in terms of build quality and user "feel".
> 
> Gimme a friggin break with your "you don’t own a pentax DSLR
> So you don’t know what youre talking about" B.S.
> 
> I never said I wouldn’t buy the istD,K100,or K10 but God
> Damn I would buy one yesterday if it had the key features
> I want. Secondly I think the whole point of 35mm/DSLR
> Is fast work and good automation. If I have time to slow
> Down for every shot I would use MF/LF all the time.
> 
> jco
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Shel Belinkoff
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:43 AM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> 
> It's the same old song from JCO every time the subject comes up.  I
> think
> we all know his view on this by now.  I don't recall, but does he have a
> Pentax DSLR?
> 
> I will say this, however, it may be easier for some to adjust to the
> "green
> button" approach than others.  For example, having come from meterless
> cameras and using hand held meters, pushing the AEL button on the DS
> and,
> if desired, checking exposure with the DOF lever, sure makes using pre-A
> lenses easy.  However, I still shoot more than 50% of my shots using my
> own
> exposure guide, the one that's built into my head, rather than using the
> meter in the camera at every shot.
> 
> Shel
> 
> 
> 
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Tim Øsleby 
> 
>> I stand corrected, silly me. My perception is obviously 
>> wrong  [slapping myself happily over forehead]. 
>>
>> The glass is half empty, not half full.
> 
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: J. C. O'Connell
> 
>> No, an "extra bonus" on a $1000 top line 
>> camera would be A camera that could read 
>> the PK PKM lens aperture setting. That this is
>> Not done is ridiculous as its friggin SIMPLE 
>> to implement... Semi automanual manual is 
>> good but it aint open aperture AE With PK 
>> PKM, while is very possible but still is not done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread J. C. O'Connell

Program mode is for idiots. AE with aperture selected
By photographer is another matter altoghter. I have
Never used Program mode in my life and never will.
Maxrix metering really has nothing to do will PK/PKM
Vs later lenses, just another screwjob by pentax...
jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Adam Maas
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 12:27 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

Because I shoot DSLR's and manual bodies. Can't compare to what I don't 
use. And other than the Manual and Aperture priority bodies, K/M lenses 
do not have full function on other bodies (No Shutter Priority or 
Program, no Matrix Metering).

-Adam


J. C. O'Connell wrote:
> But the DSLR are NOT manual bodies...DUH.
> With the on board CPUs the PK/PKM lens
> Implementation would be child's play.
> Why compare a manual body to DSLR?
> The DSLR should be compared to LX/KX
> Which had these features 25-30 YEARS ago!
> jco
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of
> Adam Maas
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:43 AM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> 
> In practice, the 'Green Button'/AE-lock hack on the DSLR's is simple
and
> 
> easy to use. You always set aperture on the lens for non-A lenses, and

> either hit the AE-Lock (Green Button on D/K10D) and it immediately
sets 
> an appropriate shutter speed or you use the DoF preview to get a 
> metering readout. I usually do the former and it works very well.
> 
> Av mode is usable with adaptor-mounted glass (since that is stop-down
on
> 
> any K mount body and doesn't have the aperture coupling either) or 
> wide-open with pre-A glass. The latter is surprisingly useful for a 
> serious low-light shooter like me.
> 
> Frankly working with MF glass on the K100D is less hassle than using
the
> 
> same glass on my MX (Or any other purely manual body).
> 
> -Adam
> 
> 
> 
> David Bliss wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm new to the list but I've been reading the archives for the last
> few
>> weeks so hopefully I will not make too much of a fool of myself.  I'm
> a long
>> time amateur user of Pentax 35mm film gear about to buy my first
DSLR.
> I was
>> minutes away from buying a K100D when the K10D was announced...
>>
>> I have a lot of manual-aperture K-mount glass, so being able to use
it
> on
>> a new DSLR is important to me.  I know there are workarounds for
using
>> such on the K100D but they're pretty bad (metering on DOF-preview
only
>> and/or manually setting aperture to match the lens's).
>>
>> The dpreview page
> (http://www.dpreview.com/articles/pentaxk10d/page2.asp)
>> and a few other verbatim copies thereof explicitly says 
>> "Ability to use lens aperture ring" so I was very excitted to think
> that
>> Pentax would have finally fixed this (idiotic) design error on the
> K10D.
>> But, the press photos of the K10D clearly show an absence of a
> mechanical
>> aperture coupling lever.  And the (mis)released manual from a couple
> of
>> days ago documents the same behavior as the K100D.  Can anyone
confirm
>> this for sure one was or the other?
>>
>> Also, can anyone explain to me why the K100D (and apparently the
K10D)
> disable
>> (a) non-central AF sensors (for focus confirmation, not AF,
obviously)
> and
>> (b) all the metering modes except CWA when using a pre-A lens?  I
> cannot
>> conceive of any possible reason these features would care about the
> lens
>> aperture being set manually.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> David Bliss
>>
>>
> 
> 


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Shel Belinkoff

I didn't say that - just asked if you had one and therefore if you'd used
one.  It was a question, not an accusation or a judgement. As long as we
are on this subject, how about cleaning up your language.  There's no need
to be rude or abusive or use "low" language.

Look, you're entitled to your opinion, just as others are entitled to
theirs.  However, every time the subject comes up you crawl out from
wherever you've been hiding and unleash a diatribe with YELLING and abusive
language.  It's getting old.  We all know your position.

Your participation in this list seems to be mostly to flog your eBay items
and rant about the lack of an aperture simulator. 

BTW, what have you been photographing lately that requires the speed and
agility to which you refer.  Working "the streets" a lot of times we have
to shoot very quickly, and those of us who do so have found that using
these cameras with manual lenses is fast and easy - in some cases, even
faster than with modern lenses.

Shel


> Gimme a friggin break with your "you dont own a pentax 
> DSLR So you dont know what youre talking about" B.S.
>
> I never said I wouldnt buy the istD,K100,or K10 but God
> Damn I would buy one yesterday if it had the key features
> I want. Secondly I think the whole point of 35mm/DSLR
> Is fast work and good automation. If I have time to slow
> Down for every shot I would use MF/LF all the time.



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread P. J. Alling

Pentax wrote it off in the Semi Pro bodies only with the introduction of 
the *ist and *ist-D.  This is very recent, in fact they still supported 
it on what is  a current model MZ/ZX-M, though admittedly probably no 
longer in full production, it is still considered a current model. 
(http://www.pentaximaging.com/products/product_details/product--ZX-M/reqID--5004/subsection--film_slr)
 
The MZ/ZX-M is in any way you look at their ultimate entry level camera 
at this time.  It would be silly not to include in this case but in many 
ways it's just as silly not to support it on newer top level models.  If 
the K10D included support for aperture simulator, I'd buy one tomorrow 
rather than waiting for the price to drop.

Adam Maas wrote:

>No, there is nothing to prevent it being re-implemented. But the Camera 
>makers in the position to do so (Nikon and Pentax, the only two of major 
>makers stillusing their MF mount) have written it off on consumer and 
>semi-pro bodies a number of years ago. This happened in the film era, 
>we've actually got more functionality on the Pentax DSLR's than on many 
>recent film bodies (*ist, MZ-30/50/60, many more on the Nikon side).
>
>Would I like to see the Aperture Simulator return? Hell Yes. Do I expect 
>it? Not unless Pentax makes a K1D. Can I live without it? Most Assuredly.
>
>-Adam
>
>
>
>J. C. O'Connell wrote:
>  
>
>>Bullshit. There is nothing to prevent its implementation
>>In the future, either by Pentax or other camera makers
>>Using the PK mount.
>>jco
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
>>Adam Maas
>>Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:45 AM
>>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>>Because it ain't shit.
>>
>>The green button hack is one of the reasons I bought the K100D to 
>>replace my D50. Some metering is better than no metering. And that's the
>>
>>choice we're faced with.
>>
>>The Aperture Simulator is dead. Deal With It. Those of us who shoot with
>>
>>K glass and the DSLR's are doing just fine.
>>
>>-Adam
>>
>>
>>J. C. O'Connell wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Why settle for shit for no reason?
>>>Glass is still definitely half empty.
>>>jco
>>>
>>>-Original Message-
>>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
>>>  
>>>
>>Of
>>
>>
>>>Tim Øsleby
>>>Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:27 AM
>>>To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>>>Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>>
>>>I stand corrected, silly me. My perception is obviously wrong 
>>>[slapping myself happily over forehead]. 
>>>
>>>The glass is half empty, not half full.
>>>
>>>
>>>Tim
>>>Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>>> 
>>>
>>>-Original Message-
>>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
>>>  
>>>
>>Of
>>
>>
>>>J.
>>>C. O'Connell
>>>Sent: 8. oktober 2006 17:03
>>>To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>>>Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>>
>>>No, an "extra bonus" on a $1000 top line camera would be
>>>A camera that could read the PK PKM lens aperture setting. That this
>>>  
>>>
>>is
>>
>>
>>>Not done is ridiculous as its friggin SIMPLE to implement...
>>>Semi automanual manual is good but it aint open aperture AE
>>>With PK PKM, while is very possible but still is not done.
>>>jco
>>>
>>>-Original Message-
>>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
>>>  
>>>
>>Of
>>
>>
>>>Tim Øsleby
>>>Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 10:46 AM
>>>To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>>>Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>>
>>>Welcome onboard David.
>>>
>>>I had exactly the same thoughts as you about metering manual lenses
>>>before I
>>>tried it. In real life, it is no problem. After 15 minutes using it,
>>>  
>>>
>>you
>>
>>
>>>will get used to it. 
>>>In high speed situation you must think a bit ahead, watching at the
>>>light.
>>>If lighting changes you need to re push the button every now and then
>>>

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread J. C. O'Connell

You are missing my point. Those film bodies that didnt
Support PK/PKM were cheap models for those who didnt want
The feature, and pentax always offered higher levels models the
Entire time that did. With the DSLRs none of them support
It. There should be at least ONE model at all times that
Does especially if we are talking about $1000 cameras
In todays market. I want the feature very much and I am
Sure there are millions of lens owners that do to. Its
A real shame (on Pentax) to not offer what buyers WANT
And would be willing to pay for.
jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Adam Maas
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 12:32 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

No, there is nothing to prevent it being re-implemented. But the Camera 
makers in the position to do so (Nikon and Pentax, the only two of major

makers stillusing their MF mount) have written it off on consumer and 
semi-pro bodies a number of years ago. This happened in the film era, 
we've actually got more functionality on the Pentax DSLR's than on many 
recent film bodies (*ist, MZ-30/50/60, many more on the Nikon side).

Would I like to see the Aperture Simulator return? Hell Yes. Do I expect

it? Not unless Pentax makes a K1D. Can I live without it? Most
Assuredly.

-Adam



J. C. O'Connell wrote:
> Bullshit. There is nothing to prevent its implementation
> In the future, either by Pentax or other camera makers
> Using the PK mount.
> jco
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of
> Adam Maas
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:45 AM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> 
> Because it ain't shit.
> 
> The green button hack is one of the reasons I bought the K100D to 
> replace my D50. Some metering is better than no metering. And that's
the
> 
> choice we're faced with.
> 
> The Aperture Simulator is dead. Deal With It. Those of us who shoot
with
> 
> K glass and the DSLR's are doing just fine.
> 
> -Adam
> 
> 
> J. C. O'Connell wrote:
>> Why settle for shit for no reason?
>> Glass is still definitely half empty.
>> jco
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of
>> Tim Øsleby
>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:27 AM
>> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>> I stand corrected, silly me. My perception is obviously wrong 
>> [slapping myself happily over forehead]. 
>>
>> The glass is half empty, not half full.
>>
>>
>> Tim
>> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>>  
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of
>> J.
>> C. O'Connell
>> Sent: 8. oktober 2006 17:03
>> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>> No, an "extra bonus" on a $1000 top line camera would be
>> A camera that could read the PK PKM lens aperture setting. That this
> is
>> Not done is ridiculous as its friggin SIMPLE to implement...
>> Semi automanual manual is good but it aint open aperture AE
>> With PK PKM, while is very possible but still is not done.
>> jco
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of
>> Tim Øsleby
>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 10:46 AM
>> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>> Welcome onboard David.
>>
>> I had exactly the same thoughts as you about metering manual lenses
>> before I
>> tried it. In real life, it is no problem. After 15 minutes using it,
> you
>> will get used to it. 
>> In high speed situation you must think a bit ahead, watching at the
>> light.
>> If lighting changes you need to re push the button every now and then
> to
>> make sure to get the exposure right before the decisive moment. 
>>
>> Lack of matrix metering is a bit frustrating. But in most situations
> you
>> can
>> get around it using the histogram fine tuning the exposure. It's the
>> same as
>> the green button thing. You need to think a bit ahead, being prepared
>> for
>> the decisive moment.
>>
>> But what can you expect. Consider the ability to use old lenses as an
>> extra
>> bonus. 
>>
>>
>> Tim
>> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>>  
>>
>> -

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread J. C. O'Connell

Screw YOU. My opinions are just a valid of yours.
If you don't have a damn then that's your thing
But I have the right to express my opinion.
Pentax needs to improve, not get worse.
jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
William Robb
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 12:42 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

John, why don't you get off this particular pot of shite. You aren't 
saying anything new, nor anything we haven't read from you on at least a

dozen other occassions.
The best information that anyone onlist has been able to get is that the

aperture simulator coupling is a gone, never to return.

If you feel that strongly, write a letter to Pentax Japan.

William Robb 



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread J. C. O'Connell

Oh screw YOU. I am not here to "flog ebay". I am here to 
Discuss pentax like everyone else and I don't know
Why you think its wrong for me to disagree with pentax
Designs if I don't like them and I don't like the 
DSLR ignorance of PK/PKM aperture settings one bit.
You can settle for REGRESSION, I want PROGRESS.
jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Shel Belinkoff
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 12:55 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

I didn't say that - just asked if you had one and therefore if you'd
used
one.  It was a question, not an accusation or a judgement. As long as we
are on this subject, how about cleaning up your language.  There's no
need
to be rude or abusive or use "low" language.

Look, you're entitled to your opinion, just as others are entitled to
theirs.  However, every time the subject comes up you crawl out from
wherever you've been hiding and unleash a diatribe with YELLING and
abusive
language.  It's getting old.  We all know your position.

Your participation in this list seems to be mostly to flog your eBay
items
and rant about the lack of an aperture simulator. 

BTW, what have you been photographing lately that requires the speed and
agility to which you refer.  Working "the streets" a lot of times we
have
to shoot very quickly, and those of us who do so have found that using
these cameras with manual lenses is fast and easy - in some cases, even
faster than with modern lenses.

Shel


> Gimme a friggin break with your "you don't own a pentax 
> DSLR So you don't know what youre talking about" B.S.
>
> I never said I wouldn't buy the istD,K100,or K10 but God
> Damn I would buy one yesterday if it had the key features
> I want. Secondly I think the whole point of 35mm/DSLR
> Is fast work and good automation. If I have time to slow
> Down for every shot I would use MF/LF all the time.





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread William Robb

- Original Message - 
From: "Adam Maas"
Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

Pushing 2 buttons instead of one is slowing down?

I also shoot with K/M lenses, don't own as many as you, but 2 of my 3
main lenses are K/M (Kiron 28/2, SMC-M 50/2, SMC-A 70-210) and I shoot
with a couple of screwmount lenses too.

You don't shoot with a Pentax DSLR, so you don't know how simple it is
in actual practice. Until you've tried it in the field, you won't.
Experience is the telling point here (I thought it would be a hassle
myself when I bought the D. It wasn't).

Adam;
A word to the wise:
This is not a debate you can win with John. Whatever you post will be 
refuted with ever increasingly abusive language until you give up.
Continuing the debate is a fools game, you are dealing with a mind that 
slammed shut about 3 years ago, and has no intention of opening, for any 
reason.

Have fun

William Robb

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread J. C. O'Connell

Dont be absure. I know what stop down one shot manual metering is.
Spotmatic had that since 1964. ( Little easier on DSLR as it turns
The shutter dial for you).
I dont need to use the Pentax DSLR w K/KM to know what it
Is. Its not the same as OPEN APERTURE AUTOMATIC EXPOSURE (Aperture
preffered).
Dont be silly. I dont need to go to Alaska to know it snows there.
jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Adam Maas
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 12:36 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

Pushing 2 buttons instead of one is slowing down?

I also shoot with K/M lenses, don't own as many as you, but 2 of my 3 
main lenses are K/M (Kiron 28/2, SMC-M 50/2, SMC-A 70-210) and I shoot 
with a couple of screwmount lenses too.

You don't shoot with a Pentax DSLR, so you don't know how simple it is 
in actual practice. Until you've tried it in the field, you won't. 
Experience is the telling point here (I thought it would be a hassle 
myself when I bought the D. It wasn't).

-Adam


J. C. O'Connell wrote:
> Look you can apologize all you want for pentax
> But I have over two dozen world class NICE manual focus
> Pentax PK/PKM lenses and I DONT BUY what I dont
> Want. I wanted K/KM support in the new top line
> Body, if you dont, that doesnt matter to me
> One Iota. ALL of the later Pentax MF lenses are 
> Garbage including the "A" series compared to the K/M
> Lenses in terms of build quality and user "feel".
> 
> Gimme a friggin break with your "you dont own a pentax DSLR
> So you dont know what youre talking about" B.S.
> 
> I never said I wouldnt buy the istD,K100,or K10 but God
> Damn I would buy one yesterday if it had the key features
> I want. Secondly I think the whole point of 35mm/DSLR
> Is fast work and good automation. If I have time to slow
> Down for every shot I would use MF/LF all the time.
> 
> jco
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of
> Shel Belinkoff
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:43 AM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> 
> It's the same old song from JCO every time the subject comes up.  I
> think
> we all know his view on this by now.  I don't recall, but does he have
a
> Pentax DSLR?
> 
> I will say this, however, it may be easier for some to adjust to the
> "green
> button" approach than others.  For example, having come from meterless
> cameras and using hand held meters, pushing the AEL button on the DS
> and,
> if desired, checking exposure with the DOF lever, sure makes using
pre-A
> lenses easy.  However, I still shoot more than 50% of my shots using
my
> own
> exposure guide, the one that's built into my head, rather than using
the
> meter in the camera at every shot.
> 
> Shel
> 
> 
> 
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Tim Øsleby 
> 
>> I stand corrected, silly me. My perception is obviously 
>> wrong  [slapping myself happily over forehead]. 
>>
>> The glass is half empty, not half full.
> 
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: J. C. O'Connell
> 
>> No, an "extra bonus" on a $1000 top line 
>> camera would be A camera that could read 
>> the PK PKM lens aperture setting. That this is
>> Not done is ridiculous as its friggin SIMPLE 
>> to implement... Semi automanual manual is 
>> good but it aint open aperture AE With PK 
>> PKM, while is very possible but still is not done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread George Sinos

JCO - I guessing that your frustration is the basis for the strong
"idiots" statement.

Frankly, I don't see a lot of difference between program, Av, and Tv.
I see it as a "choose the type of convenience that works for you."

See you later, gs

On 10/8/06, J. C. O'Connell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Program mode is for idiots. AE with aperture selected
> By photographer is another matter altoghter. I have
> Never used Program mode in my life and never will.
> Maxrix metering really has nothing to do will PK/PKM
> Vs later lenses, just another screwjob by pentax...
> jco
>

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread P. J. Alling

I shoot a D and a Ds, and yes I have no real problem in normal shooting 
using the green button/AE-L kludge with my K/M lenses.  However I've 
also been shooting weddings lately, and one of my favorite lenses for 
that is the Vivitar S1 35-85 f2.8, wonderful bokeh, and fast and 
available at a reasonable price, and when things are happening fast it 
can be a PITA.  Don't tell me that I should invest in a new lens, it's 
economically unfeasible based on the income. Especially considering that 
a new equivalent in the 28-70mm  range with a fixed aperture would cost 
at least than 10 times what I paid for a pair of these lenses, if I 
could find one at all.  I'm living with the limitations I don't have to 
be happy with them.

Adam Maas wrote:

>Pushing 2 buttons instead of one is slowing down?
>
>I also shoot with K/M lenses, don't own as many as you, but 2 of my 3 
>main lenses are K/M (Kiron 28/2, SMC-M 50/2, SMC-A 70-210) and I shoot 
>with a couple of screwmount lenses too.
>
>You don't shoot with a Pentax DSLR, so you don't know how simple it is 
>in actual practice. Until you've tried it in the field, you won't. 
>Experience is the telling point here (I thought it would be a hassle 
>myself when I bought the D. It wasn't).
>
>-Adam
>
>
>J. C. O'Connell wrote:
>  
>
>>Look you can apologize all you want for pentax
>>But I have over two dozen world class NICE manual focus
>>Pentax PK/PKM lenses and I DON’T BUY what I don’t
>>Want. I wanted K/KM support in the new top line
>>Body, if you don’t, that doesn’t matter to me
>>One Iota. ALL of the later Pentax MF lenses are 
>>Garbage including the "A" series compared to the K/M
>>Lenses in terms of build quality and user "feel".
>>
>>Gimme a friggin break with your "you don’t own a pentax DSLR
>>So you don’t know what youre talking about" B.S.
>>
>>I never said I wouldn’t buy the istD,K100,or K10 but God
>>Damn I would buy one yesterday if it had the key features
>>I want. Secondly I think the whole point of 35mm/DSLR
>>Is fast work and good automation. If I have time to slow
>>Down for every shot I would use MF/LF all the time.
>>
>>jco
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
>>Shel Belinkoff
>>Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:43 AM
>>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>>It's the same old song from JCO every time the subject comes up.  I
>>think
>>we all know his view on this by now.  I don't recall, but does he have a
>>Pentax DSLR?
>>
>>I will say this, however, it may be easier for some to adjust to the
>>"green
>>button" approach than others.  For example, having come from meterless
>>cameras and using hand held meters, pushing the AEL button on the DS
>>and,
>>if desired, checking exposure with the DOF lever, sure makes using pre-A
>>lenses easy.  However, I still shoot more than 50% of my shots using my
>>own
>>exposure guide, the one that's built into my head, rather than using the
>>meter in the camera at every shot.
>>
>>Shel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>[Original Message]
>>>From: Tim Øsleby 
>>>  
>>>
>>>I stand corrected, silly me. My perception is obviously 
>>>wrong  [slapping myself happily over forehead]. 
>>>
>>>The glass is half empty, not half full.
>>>  
>>>
>>
>>
>>>-Original Message-
>>>From: J. C. O'Connell
>>>  
>>>
>>>No, an "extra bonus" on a $1000 top line 
>>>camera would be A camera that could read 
>>>the PK PKM lens aperture setting. That this is
>>>Not done is ridiculous as its friggin SIMPLE 
>>>to implement... Semi automanual manual is 
>>>good but it aint open aperture AE With PK 
>>>PKM, while is very possible but still is not done.
>>>  
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>  
>


-- 
Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler.

--Albert Einstein



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread George Sinos

JCO -

I think I finally get what you're saying.  It's the open aperature meetering.

I guess coming from the old screw-mount, stop-down meeting paradigm,
even though I've had a couple of more recent auto-bodies, the
open-aperture part never registered in my mind.

See you later, gs
<http://georgesphotos.net>

On 10/8/06, J. C. O'Connell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Don't be absure. I know what stop down one shot manual metering is.
> Spotmatic had that since 1964. ( Little easier on DSLR as it turns
> The shutter dial for you).
> I don't need to use the Pentax DSLR w K/KM to know what it
> Is. Its not the same as OPEN APERTURE AUTOMATIC EXPOSURE (Aperture
> preffered).
> Don't be silly. I don't need to go to Alaska to know it snows there.
> jco
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Adam Maas
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 12:36 PM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>
> Pushing 2 buttons instead of one is slowing down?
>
> I also shoot with K/M lenses, don't own as many as you, but 2 of my 3
> main lenses are K/M (Kiron 28/2, SMC-M 50/2, SMC-A 70-210) and I shoot
> with a couple of screwmount lenses too.
>
> You don't shoot with a Pentax DSLR, so you don't know how simple it is
> in actual practice. Until you've tried it in the field, you won't.
> Experience is the telling point here (I thought it would be a hassle
> myself when I bought the D. It wasn't).
>
> -Adam
>
>
> J. C. O'Connell wrote:
> > Look you can apologize all you want for pentax
> > But I have over two dozen world class NICE manual focus
> > Pentax PK/PKM lenses and I DON'T BUY what I don't
> > Want. I wanted K/KM support in the new top line
> > Body, if you don't, that doesn't matter to me
> > One Iota. ALL of the later Pentax MF lenses are
> > Garbage including the "A" series compared to the K/M
> > Lenses in terms of build quality and user "feel".
> >
> > Gimme a friggin break with your "you don't own a pentax DSLR
> > So you don't know what youre talking about" B.S.
> >
> > I never said I wouldn't buy the istD,K100,or K10 but God
> > Damn I would buy one yesterday if it had the key features
> > I want. Secondly I think the whole point of 35mm/DSLR
> > Is fast work and good automation. If I have time to slow
> > Down for every shot I would use MF/LF all the time.
> >
> > jco
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of
> > Shel Belinkoff
> > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:43 AM
> > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> >
> > It's the same old song from JCO every time the subject comes up.  I
> > think
> > we all know his view on this by now.  I don't recall, but does he have
> a
> > Pentax DSLR?
> >
> > I will say this, however, it may be easier for some to adjust to the
> > "green
> > button" approach than others.  For example, having come from meterless
> > cameras and using hand held meters, pushing the AEL button on the DS
> > and,
> > if desired, checking exposure with the DOF lever, sure makes using
> pre-A
> > lenses easy.  However, I still shoot more than 50% of my shots using
> my
> > own
> > exposure guide, the one that's built into my head, rather than using
> the
> > meter in the camera at every shot.
> >
> > Shel
> >
> >
> >
> >> [Original Message]
> >> From: Tim Øsleby
> >
> >> I stand corrected, silly me. My perception is obviously
> >> wrong  [slapping myself happily over forehead].
> >>
> >> The glass is half empty, not half full.
> >
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: J. C. O'Connell
> >
> >> No, an "extra bonus" on a $1000 top line
> >> camera would be A camera that could read
> >> the PK PKM lens aperture setting. That this is
> >> Not done is ridiculous as its friggin SIMPLE
> >> to implement... Semi automanual manual is
> >> good but it aint open aperture AE With PK
> >> PKM, while is very possible but still is not done.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread J. C. O'Connell

Another problem with the DSLRs is with PK/PKM
Variable aperture zooms you HAVE TO RE-METER
Everytime you zoom the lens. THAT SUCKS
And would not be necessary with full PK/PKM
AE Support. DUH...

JCO
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
P. J. Alling
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 1:24 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

I shoot a D and a Ds, and yes I have no real problem in normal shooting 
using the green button/AE-L kludge with my K/M lenses.  However I've 
also been shooting weddings lately, and one of my favorite lenses for 
that is the Vivitar S1 35-85 f2.8, wonderful bokeh, and fast and 
available at a reasonable price, and when things are happening fast it 
can be a PITA.  Don't tell me that I should invest in a new lens, it's 
economically unfeasible based on the income. Especially considering that

a new equivalent in the 28-70mm  range with a fixed aperture would cost 
at least than 10 times what I paid for a pair of these lenses, if I 
could find one at all.  I'm living with the limitations I don't have to 
be happy with them.

Adam Maas wrote:

>Pushing 2 buttons instead of one is slowing down?
>
>I also shoot with K/M lenses, don't own as many as you, but 2 of my 3 
>main lenses are K/M (Kiron 28/2, SMC-M 50/2, SMC-A 70-210) and I shoot 
>with a couple of screwmount lenses too.
>
>You don't shoot with a Pentax DSLR, so you don't know how simple it is 
>in actual practice. Until you've tried it in the field, you won't. 
>Experience is the telling point here (I thought it would be a hassle 
>myself when I bought the D. It wasn't).
>
>-Adam
>
>
>J. C. O'Connell wrote:
>  
>
>>Look you can apologize all you want for pentax
>>But I have over two dozen world class NICE manual focus
>>Pentax PK/PKM lenses and I DONT BUY what I dont
>>Want. I wanted K/KM support in the new top line
>>Body, if you dont, that doesnt matter to me
>>One Iota. ALL of the later Pentax MF lenses are 
>>Garbage including the "A" series compared to the K/M
>>Lenses in terms of build quality and user "feel".
>>
>>Gimme a friggin break with your "you dont own a pentax DSLR
>>So you dont know what youre talking about" B.S.
>>
>>I never said I wouldnt buy the istD,K100,or K10 but God
>>Damn I would buy one yesterday if it had the key features
>>I want. Secondly I think the whole point of 35mm/DSLR
>>Is fast work and good automation. If I have time to slow
>>Down for every shot I would use MF/LF all the time.
>>
>>jco
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of
>>Shel Belinkoff
>>Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:43 AM
>>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>>It's the same old song from JCO every time the subject comes up.  I
>>think
>>we all know his view on this by now.  I don't recall, but does he have
a
>>Pentax DSLR?
>>
>>I will say this, however, it may be easier for some to adjust to the
>>"green
>>button" approach than others.  For example, having come from meterless
>>cameras and using hand held meters, pushing the AEL button on the DS
>>and,
>>if desired, checking exposure with the DOF lever, sure makes using
pre-A
>>lenses easy.  However, I still shoot more than 50% of my shots using
my
>>own
>>exposure guide, the one that's built into my head, rather than using
the
>>meter in the camera at every shot.
>>
>>Shel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>[Original Message]
>>>From: Tim Øsleby 
>>>  
>>>
>>>I stand corrected, silly me. My perception is obviously 
>>>wrong  [slapping myself happily over forehead]. 
>>>
>>>The glass is half empty, not half full.
>>>  
>>>
>>
>>
>>>-Original Message-
>>>From: J. C. O'Connell
>>>  
>>>
>>>No, an "extra bonus" on a $1000 top line 
>>>camera would be A camera that could read 
>>>the PK PKM lens aperture setting. That this is
>>>Not done is ridiculous as its friggin SIMPLE 
>>>to implement... Semi automanual manual is 
>>>good but it aint open aperture AE With PK 
>>>PKM, while is very possible but still is not done.
>>>  
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>  
>


-- 
Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler.

--Albert Einstein



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Adam Maas

I'm not going to disagree with you on that, with the caveat that this 
applies when the lighting is inconsistent or changing, otherwise you 
generally don't need to meter (Weddings are an exception to that since 
you are balancing such an extreme contrast range due to clothing colour).

-Adam



P. J. Alling wrote:
> I shoot a D and a Ds, and yes I have no real problem in normal shooting 
> using the green button/AE-L kludge with my K/M lenses.  However I've 
> also been shooting weddings lately, and one of my favorite lenses for 
> that is the Vivitar S1 35-85 f2.8, wonderful bokeh, and fast and 
> available at a reasonable price, and when things are happening fast it 
> can be a PITA.  Don't tell me that I should invest in a new lens, it's 
> economically unfeasible based on the income. Especially considering that 
> a new equivalent in the 28-70mm  range with a fixed aperture would cost 
> at least than 10 times what I paid for a pair of these lenses, if I 
> could find one at all.  I'm living with the limitations I don't have to 
> be happy with them.
> 
> Adam Maas wrote:
> 
>> Pushing 2 buttons instead of one is slowing down?
>>
>> I also shoot with K/M lenses, don't own as many as you, but 2 of my 3 
>> main lenses are K/M (Kiron 28/2, SMC-M 50/2, SMC-A 70-210) and I shoot 
>> with a couple of screwmount lenses too.
>>
>> You don't shoot with a Pentax DSLR, so you don't know how simple it is 
>> in actual practice. Until you've tried it in the field, you won't. 
>> Experience is the telling point here (I thought it would be a hassle 
>> myself when I bought the D. It wasn't).
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>>
>> J. C. O'Connell wrote:
>>  
>>
>>> Look you can apologize all you want for pentax
>>> But I have over two dozen world class NICE manual focus
>>> Pentax PK/PKM lenses and I DON’T BUY what I don’t
>>> Want. I wanted K/KM support in the new top line
>>> Body, if you don’t, that doesn’t matter to me
>>> One Iota. ALL of the later Pentax MF lenses are 
>>> Garbage including the "A" series compared to the K/M
>>> Lenses in terms of build quality and user "feel".
>>>
>>> Gimme a friggin break with your "you don’t own a pentax DSLR
>>> So you don’t know what youre talking about" B.S.
>>>
>>> I never said I wouldn’t buy the istD,K100,or K10 but God
>>> Damn I would buy one yesterday if it had the key features
>>> I want. Secondly I think the whole point of 35mm/DSLR
>>> Is fast work and good automation. If I have time to slow
>>> Down for every shot I would use MF/LF all the time.
>>>
>>> jco
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
>>> Shel Belinkoff
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:43 AM
>>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>>
>>> It's the same old song from JCO every time the subject comes up.  I
>>> think
>>> we all know his view on this by now.  I don't recall, but does he have a
>>> Pentax DSLR?
>>>
>>> I will say this, however, it may be easier for some to adjust to the
>>> "green
>>> button" approach than others.  For example, having come from meterless
>>> cameras and using hand held meters, pushing the AEL button on the DS
>>> and,
>>> if desired, checking exposure with the DOF lever, sure makes using pre-A
>>> lenses easy.  However, I still shoot more than 50% of my shots using my
>>> own
>>> exposure guide, the one that's built into my head, rather than using the
>>> meter in the camera at every shot.
>>>
>>> Shel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> [Original Message]
>>>> From: Tim Øsleby 
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> I stand corrected, silly me. My perception is obviously 
>>>> wrong  [slapping myself happily over forehead]. 
>>>>
>>>> The glass is half empty, not half full.
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: J. C. O'Connell
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> No, an "extra bonus" on a $1000 top line 
>>>> camera would be A camera that could read 
>>>> the PK PKM lens aperture setting. That this is
>>>> Not done is ridiculous as its friggin SIMPLE 
>>>> to implement... Semi automanual manual is 
>>>> good but it aint open aperture AE With PK 
>>>> PKM, while is very possible but still is not done.
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>  
>>
> 
> 


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Adam Maas

Note the last body introduced with an aperture simulator was the MZ-S. 
The MZ-M is an older body remaining in either hsort-run production or 
stocks. It was introduced almost 10 years ago.

-Adam


P. J. Alling wrote:
> Pentax wrote it off in the Semi Pro bodies only with the introduction of 
> the *ist and *ist-D.  This is very recent, in fact they still supported 
> it on what is  a current model MZ/ZX-M, though admittedly probably no 
> longer in full production, it is still considered a current model. 
> (http://www.pentaximaging.com/products/product_details/product--ZX-M/reqID--5004/subsection--film_slr)
>  
> The MZ/ZX-M is in any way you look at their ultimate entry level camera 
> at this time.  It would be silly not to include in this case but in many 
> ways it's just as silly not to support it on newer top level models.  If 
> the K10D included support for aperture simulator, I'd buy one tomorrow 
> rather than waiting for the price to drop.
> 
> Adam Maas wrote:
> 
>> No, there is nothing to prevent it being re-implemented. But the Camera 
>> makers in the position to do so (Nikon and Pentax, the only two of major 
>> makers stillusing their MF mount) have written it off on consumer and 
>> semi-pro bodies a number of years ago. This happened in the film era, 
>> we've actually got more functionality on the Pentax DSLR's than on many 
>> recent film bodies (*ist, MZ-30/50/60, many more on the Nikon side).
>>
>> Would I like to see the Aperture Simulator return? Hell Yes. Do I expect 
>> it? Not unless Pentax makes a K1D. Can I live without it? Most Assuredly.
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>>
>>
>> J. C. O'Connell wrote:
>>  
>>
>>> Bullshit. There is nothing to prevent its implementation
>>> In the future, either by Pentax or other camera makers
>>> Using the PK mount.
>>> jco
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
>>> Adam Maas
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:45 AM
>>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>> Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>>
>>> Because it ain't shit.
>>>
>>> The green button hack is one of the reasons I bought the K100D to 
>>> replace my D50. Some metering is better than no metering. And that's the
>>>
>>> choice we're faced with.
>>>
>>> The Aperture Simulator is dead. Deal With It. Those of us who shoot with
>>>
>>> K glass and the DSLR's are doing just fine.
>>>
>>> -Adam
>>>
>>>
>>> J. C. O'Connell wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Why settle for shit for no reason?
>>>> Glass is still definitely half empty.
>>>> jco
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
>>>>  
>>>>
>>> Of
>>>
>>>
>>>> Tim Øsleby
>>>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:27 AM
>>>> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>>>> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>>>
>>>> I stand corrected, silly me. My perception is obviously wrong 
>>>> [slapping myself happily over forehead]. 
>>>>
>>>> The glass is half empty, not half full.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tim
>>>> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
>>>>  
>>>>
>>> Of
>>>
>>>
>>>> J.
>>>> C. O'Connell
>>>> Sent: 8. oktober 2006 17:03
>>>> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>>>> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>>>
>>>> No, an "extra bonus" on a $1000 top line camera would be
>>>> A camera that could read the PK PKM lens aperture setting. That this
>>>>  
>>>>
>>> is
>>>
>>>
>>>> Not done is ridiculous as its friggin SIMPLE to implement...
>>>> Semi automanual manual is good but it aint open aperture AE
>>>> With PK PKM, while is very possible but still is not done.
>>>> jco
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
>>>>  
>>>>
>>> O

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread J. C. O'Connell

No program mode is bad because you are not controlling
DOF like you are by choosing the aperture setting. BIG
KEY DIFFERENCE.
jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
George Sinos
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 1:05 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

JCO - I guessing that your frustration is the basis for the strong
"idiots" statement.

Frankly, I don't see a lot of difference between program, Av, and Tv.
I see it as a "choose the type of convenience that works for you."

See you later, gs
<http://georgesphotos.net>

On 10/8/06, J. C. O'Connell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Program mode is for idiots. AE with aperture selected
> By photographer is another matter altoghter. I have
> Never used Program mode in my life and never will.
> Maxrix metering really has nothing to do will PK/PKM
> Vs later lenses, just another screwjob by pentax...
> jco
>

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Adam Maas

Somebodies never heard of HyperProgram or shiftable programs.

Hint, with HyperProgram and Shiftable programs, you have this control in 
Program mode. And DoF isn't everything (Tv exists for a very good 
reason) sometimes it's not what you want to control.

-Adam


J. C. O'Connell wrote:
> No program mode is bad because you are not controlling
> DOF like you are by choosing the aperture setting. BIG
> KEY DIFFERENCE.
> jco
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> George Sinos
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 1:05 PM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> 
> JCO - I guessing that your frustration is the basis for the strong
> "idiots" statement.
> 
> Frankly, I don't see a lot of difference between program, Av, and Tv.
> I see it as a "choose the type of convenience that works for you."
> 
> See you later, gs
> <http://georgesphotos.net>
> 
> On 10/8/06, J. C. O'Connell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Program mode is for idiots. AE with aperture selected
>> By photographer is another matter altoghter. I have
>> Never used Program mode in my life and never will.
>> Maxrix metering really has nothing to do will PK/PKM
>> Vs later lenses, just another screwjob by pentax...
>> jco
>>
> 


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Adam Maas

That would be a nice addition, and I agree it would be fairly simple to 
implement.

-Adam


Juan Buhler wrote:
> I know it is a dead horse, but I think it was killed in the wrong way.
> 
> The mechanical coupler is gone for good, and there's no reason for
> Pentax to reimplement it.
> 
> But a better solution could be achieved with software. I'd like to
> have, besides the green button behavior in M mode, a similar behavior
> in P: press the green button to get correct exposure. When the light
> changes, the camera modifies the shutter speed it had selected. If you
> move the aperture ring you're on your own.
> 
> This would be a trivial firmware update, and would add a totally new
> mode for pre-A lenses.
> 
> j
> 
> 
> On 10/8/06, Adam Maas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> William Robb wrote:
>>> ----- Original Message -
>>> From: "Adam Maas"
>>> Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>>
>>>
>>>> In practice, the 'Green Button'/AE-lock hack on the DSLR's is simple
>>>> and
>>>> easy to use. You always set aperture on the lens for non-A lenses, and
>>>> either hit the AE-Lock (Green Button on D/K10D) and it immediately
>>>> sets
>>>> an appropriate shutter speed or you use the DoF preview to get a
>>>> metering readout. I usually do the former and it works very well.
>>>>
>>>> Av mode is usable with adaptor-mounted glass (since that is stop-down
>>>> on
>>>> any K mount body and doesn't have the aperture coupling either) or
>>>> wide-open with pre-A glass. The latter is surprisingly useful for a
>>>> serious low-light shooter like me.
>>>>
>>>> Frankly working with MF glass on the K100D is less hassle than using
>>>> the
>>>> same glass on my MX (Or any other purely manual body).
>>> You do have to keep an eye on things, since it is possible to run the
>>> meter out of range pretty quickly. It's a good idea to have a clue about
>>> what the shutter speed should be with the aperture chosen.
>>>
>>> William Robb
>>>
>> Agreed.
>>
>> Frankly, if you're going to use old glass, you should know what you're
>> doing with regards to exposure and be paying attention. Of course,
>> that's a useful skill even shooting within the metering range with A and
>> later glass.
>>
>> Note I successfully shot for quite a while with the D50 and AI-era
>> glass, which utterly lacks metering of any sort. And after the first
>> week or two I was shooting 1-2 test shots for each lighting condition
>> and leaving it at that. It's a good way to learn to expose (So is
>> shooting RVP50 in a TLR with no meter and only an exposure calculator)
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>>
>> --
>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> PDML@pdml.net
>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>
> 
> 


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Pål Jensen


- Original Message - 
From: "J. C. O'Connell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



> Program mode is for idiots. 

Bravo!

Mark!


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread J. C. O'Connell

Its not only open aperture meter, its CONTINOUS
Autoexposure on the fly without the need to keep re-metering
Everytime you change the aperture setting or the
Lighting changes...
jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
George Sinos
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 1:11 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

JCO -

I think I finally get what you're saying.  It's the open aperature
meetering.

I guess coming from the old screw-mount, stop-down meeting paradigm,
even though I've had a couple of more recent auto-bodies, the
open-aperture part never registered in my mind.

See you later, gs
<http://georgesphotos.net>

On 10/8/06, J. C. O'Connell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Don't be absure. I know what stop down one shot manual metering is.
> Spotmatic had that since 1964. ( Little easier on DSLR as it turns
> The shutter dial for you).
> I don't need to use the Pentax DSLR w K/KM to know what it
> Is. Its not the same as OPEN APERTURE AUTOMATIC EXPOSURE (Aperture
> preffered).
> Don't be silly. I don't need to go to Alaska to know it snows there.
> jco
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of
> Adam Maas
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 12:36 PM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>
> Pushing 2 buttons instead of one is slowing down?
>
> I also shoot with K/M lenses, don't own as many as you, but 2 of my 3
> main lenses are K/M (Kiron 28/2, SMC-M 50/2, SMC-A 70-210) and I shoot
> with a couple of screwmount lenses too.
>
> You don't shoot with a Pentax DSLR, so you don't know how simple it is
> in actual practice. Until you've tried it in the field, you won't.
> Experience is the telling point here (I thought it would be a hassle
> myself when I bought the D. It wasn't).
>
> -Adam
>
>
> J. C. O'Connell wrote:
> > Look you can apologize all you want for pentax
> > But I have over two dozen world class NICE manual focus
> > Pentax PK/PKM lenses and I DON'T BUY what I don't
> > Want. I wanted K/KM support in the new top line
> > Body, if you don't, that doesn't matter to me
> > One Iota. ALL of the later Pentax MF lenses are
> > Garbage including the "A" series compared to the K/M
> > Lenses in terms of build quality and user "feel".
> >
> > Gimme a friggin break with your "you don't own a pentax DSLR
> > So you don't know what youre talking about" B.S.
> >
> > I never said I wouldn't buy the istD,K100,or K10 but God
> > Damn I would buy one yesterday if it had the key features
> > I want. Secondly I think the whole point of 35mm/DSLR
> > Is fast work and good automation. If I have time to slow
> > Down for every shot I would use MF/LF all the time.
> >
> > jco
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of
> > Shel Belinkoff
> > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:43 AM
> > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> >
> > It's the same old song from JCO every time the subject comes up.  I
> > think
> > we all know his view on this by now.  I don't recall, but does he
have
> a
> > Pentax DSLR?
> >
> > I will say this, however, it may be easier for some to adjust to the
> > "green
> > button" approach than others.  For example, having come from
meterless
> > cameras and using hand held meters, pushing the AEL button on the DS
> > and,
> > if desired, checking exposure with the DOF lever, sure makes using
> pre-A
> > lenses easy.  However, I still shoot more than 50% of my shots using
> my
> > own
> > exposure guide, the one that's built into my head, rather than using
> the
> > meter in the camera at every shot.
> >
> > Shel
> >
> >
> >
> >> [Original Message]
> >> From: Tim Øsleby
> >
> >> I stand corrected, silly me. My perception is obviously
> >> wrong  [slapping myself happily over forehead].
> >>
> >> The glass is half empty, not half full.
> >
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: J. C. O'Connell
> >
> >> No, an "extra bonus" on a $1000 top line
> >> camera would be A camera that could read
> >> the PK PKM lens aperture setting. That this is
> >> Not done is ridiculous as its friggin SIMPLE
> >> to implement... Semi automanual manual is
> >> good but it aint open aperture AE With PK
> >> PKM, while is very possible but still is not done.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread J. C. O'Connell

I know what hyperprogram is but if you have to 
Shift to the aperture you want then you might
As well use aperture preferred and get right to
The point.
jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Adam Maas
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 1:24 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

Somebodies never heard of HyperProgram or shiftable programs.

Hint, with HyperProgram and Shiftable programs, you have this control in

Program mode. And DoF isn't everything (Tv exists for a very good 
reason) sometimes it's not what you want to control.

-Adam


J. C. O'Connell wrote:
> No program mode is bad because you are not controlling
> DOF like you are by choosing the aperture setting. BIG
> KEY DIFFERENCE.
> jco
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of
> George Sinos
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 1:05 PM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> 
> JCO - I guessing that your frustration is the basis for the strong
> "idiots" statement.
> 
> Frankly, I don't see a lot of difference between program, Av, and Tv.
> I see it as a "choose the type of convenience that works for you."
> 
> See you later, gs
> <http://georgesphotos.net>
> 
> On 10/8/06, J. C. O'Connell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Program mode is for idiots. AE with aperture selected
>> By photographer is another matter altoghter. I have
>> Never used Program mode in my life and never will.
>> Maxrix metering really has nothing to do will PK/PKM
>> Vs later lenses, just another screwjob by pentax...
>> jco
>>
> 


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Pål Jensen


- Original Message - 
From: "William Robb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


> John, why don't you get off this particular pot of shite.

Oh no! It is entertaining.


> The best information that anyone onlist has been able to get is that the
> aperture simulator coupling is a gone, never to return.


I'm not so sure. Theres still the posibility of the KAF3 mount. I have 
suspected that it would be reserved for a top of the line body. According to 
recent Pentax boss interview Pentax plan to make a K-mount pro body above 
the K10D. Time will tell...

Pål 



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Tim Øsleby

David? David? Still there ;-)

I have already welcomed you once. But as this thread turned out I think it
is appropriate to welcome you to this world of lunatics one more time. It is
a soap opera, with live characters, and it is free. 

As you can see, asking a simple question here can be a rather mixed
experience. But within the shouting, you may find an answer to your
question.



Tim
Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
David Bliss
Sent: 8. oktober 2006 10:01
To: pdml@pdml.net
Subject: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

Hi all,

I'm new to the list but I've been reading the archives for the last few
weeks so hopefully I will not make too much of a fool of myself.  I'm a long
time amateur user of Pentax 35mm film gear about to buy my first DSLR. I was
minutes away from buying a K100D when the K10D was announced...

I have a lot of manual-aperture K-mount glass, so being able to use it on
a new DSLR is important to me.  I know there are workarounds for using
such on the K100D but they're pretty bad (metering on DOF-preview only
and/or manually setting aperture to match the lens's).

The dpreview page (http://www.dpreview.com/articles/pentaxk10d/page2.asp)
and a few other verbatim copies thereof explicitly says 
"Ability to use lens aperture ring" so I was very excitted to think that
Pentax would have finally fixed this (idiotic) design error on the K10D.

But, the press photos of the K10D clearly show an absence of a mechanical
aperture coupling lever.  And the (mis)released manual from a couple of
days ago documents the same behavior as the K100D.  Can anyone confirm
this for sure one was or the other?

Also, can anyone explain to me why the K100D (and apparently the K10D)
disable
(a) non-central AF sensors (for focus confirmation, not AF, obviously) and
(b) all the metering modes except CWA when using a pre-A lens?  I cannot
conceive of any possible reason these features would care about the lens
aperture being set manually.

Thanks!
David Bliss


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread John Forbes

Don't apologise to JC O'Connell.

He is a boring little nitwit who comes onto the list every six months or  
so to wind himself into a frenzy over the lack of full support for very  
old lenses.

After abusing anyone who disagrees with him (sample: "Gimme a friggin  
break with your "you don?t own a pentax (sic) DSLR So (sic) you don?t know  
what youre (sic) talking about" B.S.").

Eventually, after about a dozen posts, this one-issue idiot has an  
apoplectic fit, and shuts up for another six months while he recovers.   
Then the cycle starts all over again.

John





On Sun, 08 Oct 2006 16:49:13 +0100, Tim Øsleby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I know that now.
>> From now on I will look for limitations in my equipment.
>
> JCO.
> Sorry about my sarcastic reply. The compatibility could have been solved
> better, I agree on that.
> But I prefer looking forward, looking for solutions instead of beating  
> this
> dead horse. I don't believe irritation over this minor issue (for me)  
> will
> make me a better photographer.
>
>
> Tim
> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of  
> J.
> C. O'Connell
> Sent: 8. oktober 2006 17:34
> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>
> Why settle for shit for no reason?
> Glass is still definitely half empty.
> jco
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Tim Øsleby
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:27 AM
> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>
> I stand corrected, silly me. My perception is obviously wrong
> [slapping myself happily over forehead].
>
> The glass is half empty, not half full.
>
>
> Tim
> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>
> -----Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> J.
> C. O'Connell
> Sent: 8. oktober 2006 17:03
> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>
> No, an "extra bonus" on a $1000 top line camera would be
> A camera that could read the PK PKM lens aperture setting. That this is
> Not done is ridiculous as its friggin SIMPLE to implement...
> Semi automanual manual is good but it aint open aperture AE
> With PK PKM, while is very possible but still is not done.
> jco
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Tim Øsleby
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 10:46 AM
> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>
> Welcome onboard David.
>
> I had exactly the same thoughts as you about metering manual lenses
> before I
> tried it. In real life, it is no problem. After 15 minutes using it, you
> will get used to it.
> In high speed situation you must think a bit ahead, watching at the
> light.
> If lighting changes you need to re push the button every now and then to
> make sure to get the exposure right before the decisive moment.
>
> Lack of matrix metering is a bit frustrating. But in most situations you
> can
> get around it using the histogram fine tuning the exposure. It's the
> same as
> the green button thing. You need to think a bit ahead, being prepared
> for
> the decisive moment.
>
> But what can you expect. Consider the ability to use old lenses as an
> extra
> bonus.
>
>
> Tim
> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> David Bliss
> Sent: 8. oktober 2006 10:01
> To: pdml@pdml.net
> Subject: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm new to the list but I've been reading the archives for the last few
> weeks so hopefully I will not make too much of a fool of myself.  I'm a
> long
> time amateur user of Pentax 35mm film gear about to buy my first DSLR. I
> was
> minutes away from buying a K100D when the K10D was announced...
>
> I have a lot of manual-aperture K-mount glass, so being able to use it
> on
> a new DSLR is important to me.  I know there are workarounds for using
> such on the K100D but they're pretty bad (metering on DOF-preview only
> and/or manually setting aperture to match the lens's).
>
> The dpreview page
> (http://www.dpreview.com/articles/pentaxk10d/page2.asp)
> and a few other verbatim copies thereof explicitly says
> "Ability to use lens aperture ring" so I was very excitted to think that
> Pentax woul

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread George Sinos

I see it more as different ways to get to the same place -

Two different ways to work.   Different people think and work different ways.

See you later, gs
<http://georgesphotos.net>


On 10/8/06, J. C. O'Connell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> No program mode is bad because you are not controlling
> DOF like you are by choosing the aperture setting. BIG
> KEY DIFFERENCE.
> jco
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> George Sinos
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 1:05 PM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>
> JCO - I guessing that your frustration is the basis for the strong
> "idiots" statement.
>
> Frankly, I don't see a lot of difference between program, Av, and Tv.
> I see it as a "choose the type of convenience that works for you."
>
> See you later, gs
> <http://georgesphotos.net>
>
> On 10/8/06, J. C. O'Connell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Program mode is for idiots. AE with aperture selected
> > By photographer is another matter altoghter. I have
> > Never used Program mode in my life and never will.
> > Maxrix metering really has nothing to do will PK/PKM
> > Vs later lenses, just another screwjob by pentax...
> > jco
> >
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Paul Sorenson

Perhaps something like this is more to your liking...

http://tinyurl.com/pw2kg

J. C. O'Connell wrote:
> Oh screw YOU. I am not here to "flog ebay". I am here to 
> Discuss pentax like everyone else and I don't know
> Why you think its wrong for me to disagree with pentax
> Designs if I don't like them and I don't like the 
> DSLR ignorance of PK/PKM aperture settings one bit.
> You can settle for REGRESSION, I want PROGRESS.
> jco
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Shel Belinkoff
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 12:55 PM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> 
> I didn't say that - just asked if you had one and therefore if you'd
> used
> one.  It was a question, not an accusation or a judgement. As long as we
> are on this subject, how about cleaning up your language.  There's no
> need
> to be rude or abusive or use "low" language.
> 
> Look, you're entitled to your opinion, just as others are entitled to
> theirs.  However, every time the subject comes up you crawl out from
> wherever you've been hiding and unleash a diatribe with YELLING and
> abusive
> language.  It's getting old.  We all know your position.
> 
> Your participation in this list seems to be mostly to flog your eBay
> items
> and rant about the lack of an aperture simulator. 
> 
> BTW, what have you been photographing lately that requires the speed and
> agility to which you refer.  Working "the streets" a lot of times we
> have
> to shoot very quickly, and those of us who do so have found that using
> these cameras with manual lenses is fast and easy - in some cases, even
> faster than with modern lenses.
> 
> Shel
> 
> 
>> Gimme a friggin break with your "you don't own a pentax 
>> DSLR So you don't know what youre talking about" B.S.
>>
>> I never said I wouldn't buy the istD,K100,or K10 but God
>> Damn I would buy one yesterday if it had the key features
>> I want. Secondly I think the whole point of 35mm/DSLR
>> Is fast work and good automation. If I have time to slow
>> Down for every shot I would use MF/LF all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Paul Stenquist

Because it's not shit. I've owned two *ist D cameras and have used K  
lenses on numerous occasions. No problem. Is your opinion based on  
experience or bullshit?
Paul
On Oct 8, 2006, at 11:33 AM, J. C. O'Connell wrote:

> Why settle for shit for no reason?
> Glass is still definitely half empty.
> jco
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On  
> Behalf Of
> Tim Øsleby
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:27 AM
> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>
> I stand corrected, silly me. My perception is obviously wrong
> [slapping myself happily over forehead].
>
> The glass is half empty, not half full.
>
>
> Tim
> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On  
> Behalf Of
> J.
> C. O'Connell
> Sent: 8. oktober 2006 17:03
> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>
> No, an "extra bonus" on a $1000 top line camera would be
> A camera that could read the PK PKM lens aperture setting. That  
> this is
> Not done is ridiculous as its friggin SIMPLE to implement...
> Semi automanual manual is good but it aint open aperture AE
> With PK PKM, while is very possible but still is not done.
> jco
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On  
> Behalf Of
> Tim Øsleby
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 10:46 AM
> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>
> Welcome onboard David.
>
> I had exactly the same thoughts as you about metering manual lenses
> before I
> tried it. In real life, it is no problem. After 15 minutes using  
> it, you
> will get used to it.
> In high speed situation you must think a bit ahead, watching at the
> light.
> If lighting changes you need to re push the button every now and  
> then to
> make sure to get the exposure right before the decisive moment.
>
> Lack of matrix metering is a bit frustrating. But in most  
> situations you
> can
> get around it using the histogram fine tuning the exposure. It's the
> same as
> the green button thing. You need to think a bit ahead, being prepared
> for
> the decisive moment.
>
> But what can you expect. Consider the ability to use old lenses as an
> extra
> bonus.
>
>
> Tim
> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On  
> Behalf Of
> David Bliss
> Sent: 8. oktober 2006 10:01
> To: pdml@pdml.net
> Subject: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm new to the list but I've been reading the archives for the last  
> few
> weeks so hopefully I will not make too much of a fool of myself.   
> I'm a
> long
> time amateur user of Pentax 35mm film gear about to buy my first  
> DSLR. I
> was
> minutes away from buying a K100D when the K10D was announced...
>
> I have a lot of manual-aperture K-mount glass, so being able to use it
> on
> a new DSLR is important to me.  I know there are workarounds for using
> such on the K100D but they're pretty bad (metering on DOF-preview only
> and/or manually setting aperture to match the lens's).
>
> The dpreview page
> (http://www.dpreview.com/articles/pentaxk10d/page2.asp)
> and a few other verbatim copies thereof explicitly says
> "Ability to use lens aperture ring" so I was very excitted to think  
> that
> Pentax would have finally fixed this (idiotic) design error on the  
> K10D.
>
> But, the press photos of the K10D clearly show an absence of a
> mechanical
> aperture coupling lever.  And the (mis)released manual from a  
> couple of
> days ago documents the same behavior as the K100D.  Can anyone confirm
> this for sure one was or the other?
>
> Also, can anyone explain to me why the K100D (and apparently the K10D)
> disable
> (a) non-central AF sensors (for focus confirmation, not AF, obviously)
> and
> (b) all the metering modes except CWA when using a pre-A lens?  I  
> cannot
> conceive of any possible reason these features would care about the  
> lens
> aperture being set manually.
>
> Thanks!
> David Bliss
>
>
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>
>
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>
>
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Paul Stenquist

More words of wisdom from someone who hasn't even tried it. Such  
nonsense.

On Oct 8, 2006, at 12:18 PM, J. C. O'Connell wrote:

> Look you can apologize all you want for pentax
> But I have over two dozen world class NICE manual focus
> Pentax PK/PKM lenses and I DON’T BUY what I don’t
> Want. I wanted K/KM support in the new top line
> Body, if you don’t, that doesn’t matter to me
> One Iota. ALL of the later Pentax MF lenses are
> Garbage including the "A" series compared to the K/M
> Lenses in terms of build quality and user "feel".
>
> Gimme a friggin break with your "you don’t own a pentax DSLR
> So you don’t know what youre talking about" B.S.
>
> I never said I wouldn’t buy the istD,K100,or K10 but God
> Damn I would buy one yesterday if it had the key features
> I want. Secondly I think the whole point of 35mm/DSLR
> Is fast work and good automation. If I have time to slow
> Down for every shot I would use MF/LF all the time.
>
> jco
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On  
> Behalf Of
> Shel Belinkoff
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:43 AM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>
> It's the same old song from JCO every time the subject comes up.  I
> think
> we all know his view on this by now.  I don't recall, but does he  
> have a
> Pentax DSLR?
>
> I will say this, however, it may be easier for some to adjust to the
> "green
> button" approach than others.  For example, having come from meterless
> cameras and using hand held meters, pushing the AEL button on the DS
> and,
> if desired, checking exposure with the DOF lever, sure makes using  
> pre-A
> lenses easy.  However, I still shoot more than 50% of my shots  
> using my
> own
> exposure guide, the one that's built into my head, rather than  
> using the
> meter in the camera at every shot.
>
> Shel
>
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Tim Øsleby
>
>> I stand corrected, silly me. My perception is obviously
>> wrong  [slapping myself happily over forehead].
>>
>> The glass is half empty, not half full.
>
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: J. C. O'Connell
>
>> No, an "extra bonus" on a $1000 top line
>> camera would be A camera that could read
>> the PK PKM lens aperture setting. That this is
>> Not done is ridiculous as its friggin SIMPLE
>> to implement... Semi automanual manual is
>> good but it aint open aperture AE With PK
>> PKM, while is very possible but still is not done.
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Paul Stenquist


On Oct 8, 2006, at 12:15 PM, P. J. Alling wrote:

> Adam Maas wrote:
>
>> In practice, the 'Green Button'/AE-lock hack on the DSLR's is  
>> simple and
>> easy to use. You always set aperture on the lens for non-A lenses,  
>> and
>> either hit the AE-Lock (Green Button on D/K10D) and it immediately  
>> sets
>> an appropriate shutter speed or you use the DoF preview to get a
>> metering readout. I usually do the former and it works very well.
>>
>> Av mode is usable with adaptor-mounted glass (since that is stop- 
>> down on
>> any K mount body and doesn't have the aperture coupling either) or
>> wide-open with pre-A glass. The latter is surprisingly useful for a
>> serious low-light shooter like me.
>>
>> Frankly working with MF glass on the K100D is less hassle than  
>> using the
>> same glass on my MX (Or any other purely manual body).
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>>
>>
> I'm getting tired of you saying this, you obviously don't  
> understand, or
> choose to ignore the limitations of light meters.

Huh??

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Cotty

On 8/10/06, John Forbes, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Don't apologise to JC O'Connell.
>
>He is a boring little nitwit who comes onto the list every six months or  
>so to wind himself into a frenzy over the lack of full support for very  
>old lenses.
>
>After abusing anyone who disagrees with him (sample: "Gimme a friggin  
>break with your "you don?t own a pentax (sic) DSLR So (sic) you don?t know  
>what youre (sic) talking about" B.S.").
>
>Eventually, after about a dozen posts, this one-issue idiot has an  
>apoplectic fit, and shuts up for another six months while he recovers.   
>Then the cycle starts all over again.

And to top it all off, he's very unlikely to get an invite into Shel's
exclusive little street shooting club, so that's blown it JCO, eh

-- 


Cheers,
  Cotty


___/\__
||   (O)   | People, Places, Pastiche
||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com
_



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread J. C. O'Connell

Oh Screw You. You dont have a clue if you think that legacy
Lens support is only a minor issue. And like an
Idiot it's NOT the age of the lenses it's WHAT
The PK/PKM lenses are, which are superb MANUAL
Focus lenses which are not even available new
Anymore so there is great reason to support them.
AGE IS IRRELAVANT. There are MORE PK/PKM lenses
In existence than all other lens series combined so
MOST Pentax BRAND lenses are not fully supported. Thats
Not good by any standardsThis is a Pentax support
Issue, not a compatability issue which really sucks
IMHO. If yours differs, so be it, but you cannot
Prove your points by calling me an idiot, it just
Makes you look like an idiot in doing so..
Jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
John Forbes
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 2:21 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

Don't apologise to JC O'Connell.

He is a boring little nitwit who comes onto the list every six months or

so to wind himself into a frenzy over the lack of full support for very

old lenses.

After abusing anyone who disagrees with him (sample: "Gimme a friggin  
break with your "you don?t own a pentax (sic) DSLR So (sic) you don?t
know  
what youre (sic) talking about" B.S.").

Eventually, after about a dozen posts, this one-issue idiot has an  
apoplectic fit, and shuts up for another six months while he recovers.

Then the cycle starts all over again.

John





On Sun, 08 Oct 2006 16:49:13 +0100, Tim Øsleby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I know that now.
>> From now on I will look for limitations in my equipment.
>
> JCO.
> Sorry about my sarcastic reply. The compatibility could have been
solved
> better, I agree on that.
> But I prefer looking forward, looking for solutions instead of beating

> this
> dead horse. I don't believe irritation over this minor issue (for me)

> will
> make me a better photographer.
>
>
> Tim
> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of  
> J.
> C. O'Connell
> Sent: 8. oktober 2006 17:34
> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>
> Why settle for shit for no reason?
> Glass is still definitely half empty.
> jco
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of
> Tim Øsleby
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:27 AM
> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>
> I stand corrected, silly me. My perception is obviously wrong
> [slapping myself happily over forehead].
>
> The glass is half empty, not half full.
>
>
> Tim
> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of
> J.
> C. O'Connell
> Sent: 8. oktober 2006 17:03
> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>
> No, an "extra bonus" on a $1000 top line camera would be
> A camera that could read the PK PKM lens aperture setting. That this
is
> Not done is ridiculous as its friggin SIMPLE to implement...
> Semi automanual manual is good but it aint open aperture AE
> With PK PKM, while is very possible but still is not done.
> jco
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of
> Tim Øsleby
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 10:46 AM
> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>
> Welcome onboard David.
>
> I had exactly the same thoughts as you about metering manual lenses
> before I
> tried it. In real life, it is no problem. After 15 minutes using it,
you
> will get used to it.
> In high speed situation you must think a bit ahead, watching at the
> light.
> If lighting changes you need to re push the button every now and then
to
> make sure to get the exposure right before the decisive moment.
>
> Lack of matrix metering is a bit frustrating. But in most situations
you
> can
> get around it using the histogram fine tuning the exposure. It's the
> same as
> the green button thing. You need to think a bit ahead, being prepared
> for
> the decisive moment.
>
> But what can you expect. Consider the ability to use old lenses as an
> extra
> bonus.
>
>
> Tim
> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of
> David Bliss
> Sent: 8. oktober 2006 10:01
> To: pdml@pdml.net
> Subject: k10d and manual-aperture len

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Paul Stenquist

I agree. It quickly becomes an automatic. I've even shot sports  
action with K lenses and the *ist D. No problem. In fact, it  
encourages one to think about the exposure.
Paul
On Oct 8, 2006, at 10:45 AM, Tim Øsleby wrote:

> Welcome onboard David.
>
> I had exactly the same thoughts as you about metering manual lenses  
> before I
> tried it. In real life, it is no problem. After 15 minutes using  
> it, you
> will get used to it.
> In high speed situation you must think a bit ahead, watching at the  
> light.
> If lighting changes you need to re push the button every now and  
> then to
> make sure to get the exposure right before the decisive moment.
>
> Lack of matrix metering is a bit frustrating. But in most  
> situations you can
> get around it using the histogram fine tuning the exposure. It's  
> the same as
> the green button thing. You need to think a bit ahead, being  
> prepared for
> the decisive moment.
>
> But what can you expect. Consider the ability to use old lenses as  
> an extra
> bonus.
>
>
> Tim
> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On  
> Behalf Of
> David Bliss
> Sent: 8. oktober 2006 10:01
> To: pdml@pdml.net
> Subject: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm new to the list but I've been reading the archives for the last  
> few
> weeks so hopefully I will not make too much of a fool of myself.   
> I'm a long
> time amateur user of Pentax 35mm film gear about to buy my first  
> DSLR. I was
> minutes away from buying a K100D when the K10D was announced...
>
> I have a lot of manual-aperture K-mount glass, so being able to use  
> it on
> a new DSLR is important to me.  I know there are workarounds for using
> such on the K100D but they're pretty bad (metering on DOF-preview only
> and/or manually setting aperture to match the lens's).
>
> The dpreview page (http://www.dpreview.com/articles/pentaxk10d/ 
> page2.asp)
> and a few other verbatim copies thereof explicitly says
> "Ability to use lens aperture ring" so I was very excitted to think  
> that
> Pentax would have finally fixed this (idiotic) design error on the  
> K10D.
>
> But, the press photos of the K10D clearly show an absence of a  
> mechanical
> aperture coupling lever.  And the (mis)released manual from a  
> couple of
> days ago documents the same behavior as the K100D.  Can anyone confirm
> this for sure one was or the other?
>
> Also, can anyone explain to me why the K100D (and apparently the K10D)
> disable
> (a) non-central AF sensors (for focus confirmation, not AF,  
> obviously) and
> (b) all the metering modes except CWA when using a pre-A lens?  I  
> cannot
> conceive of any possible reason these features would care about the  
> lens
> aperture being set manually.
>
> Thanks!
> David Bliss
>
>
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Paul Stenquist

JCO is shouting. Someone find his meds.

On Oct 8, 2006, at 12:11 PM, J. C. O'Connell wrote:

> But the DSLR are NOT manual bodies...DUH.
> With the on board CPUs the PK/PKM lens
> Implementation would be child's play.
> Why compare a manual body to DSLR?
> The DSLR should be compared to LX/KX
> Which had these features 25-30 YEARS ago!
> jco
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On  
> Behalf Of
> Adam Maas
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:43 AM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>
> In practice, the 'Green Button'/AE-lock hack on the DSLR's is  
> simple and
>
> easy to use. You always set aperture on the lens for non-A lenses, and
> either hit the AE-Lock (Green Button on D/K10D) and it immediately  
> sets
> an appropriate shutter speed or you use the DoF preview to get a
> metering readout. I usually do the former and it works very well.
>
> Av mode is usable with adaptor-mounted glass (since that is stop- 
> down on
>
> any K mount body and doesn't have the aperture coupling either) or
> wide-open with pre-A glass. The latter is surprisingly useful for a
> serious low-light shooter like me.
>
> Frankly working with MF glass on the K100D is less hassle than  
> using the
>
> same glass on my MX (Or any other purely manual body).
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
> David Bliss wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm new to the list but I've been reading the archives for the last
> few
>> weeks so hopefully I will not make too much of a fool of myself.  I'm
> a long
>> time amateur user of Pentax 35mm film gear about to buy my first  
>> DSLR.
> I was
>> minutes away from buying a K100D when the K10D was announced...
>>
>> I have a lot of manual-aperture K-mount glass, so being able to  
>> use it
> on
>> a new DSLR is important to me.  I know there are workarounds for  
>> using
>> such on the K100D but they're pretty bad (metering on DOF-preview  
>> only
>> and/or manually setting aperture to match the lens's).
>>
>> The dpreview page
> (http://www.dpreview.com/articles/pentaxk10d/page2.asp)
>> and a few other verbatim copies thereof explicitly says
>> "Ability to use lens aperture ring" so I was very excitted to think
> that
>> Pentax would have finally fixed this (idiotic) design error on the
> K10D.
>>
>> But, the press photos of the K10D clearly show an absence of a
> mechanical
>> aperture coupling lever.  And the (mis)released manual from a couple
> of
>> days ago documents the same behavior as the K100D.  Can anyone  
>> confirm
>> this for sure one was or the other?
>>
>> Also, can anyone explain to me why the K100D (and apparently the  
>> K10D)
> disable
>> (a) non-central AF sensors (for focus confirmation, not AF,  
>> obviously)
> and
>> (b) all the metering modes except CWA when using a pre-A lens?  I
> cannot
>> conceive of any possible reason these features would care about the
> lens
>> aperture being set manually.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> David Bliss
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>
>
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Bob W

> David? David? Still there ;-)
> 
> I have already welcomed you once. But as this thread turned 
> out I think it
> is appropriate to welcome you to this world of lunatics one 
> more time. It is
> a soap opera, with live characters, and it is free. 
> 

No, it's a movie. Groundhog Day.

Bob


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread mike wilson

Adam Maas wrote:
> Because it ain't shit.
> 
> The green button hack is one of the reasons I bought the K100D to 
> replace my D50. Some metering is better than no metering. And that's the 
> choice we're faced with.
> 
> The Aperture Simulator is dead. Deal With It. Those of us who shoot with 
> K glass and the DSLR's are doing just fine.
> 
> -Adam

Not all of us.

> 
> 
> J. C. O'Connell wrote:
> 
>>Why settle for shit for no reason?
>>Glass is still definitely half empty.
>>jco
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
>>Tim Øsleby
>>Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:27 AM
>>To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>>Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>>I stand corrected, silly me. My perception is obviously wrong 
>>[slapping myself happily over forehead]. 
>>
>>The glass is half empty, not half full.
>>
>>
>>Tim
>>Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>> 
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
>>J.
>>C. O'Connell
>>Sent: 8. oktober 2006 17:03
>>To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>>Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>>No, an "extra bonus" on a $1000 top line camera would be
>>A camera that could read the PK PKM lens aperture setting. That this is
>>Not done is ridiculous as its friggin SIMPLE to implement...
>>Semi automanual manual is good but it aint open aperture AE
>>With PK PKM, while is very possible but still is not done.
>>jco
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
>>Tim Øsleby
>>Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 10:46 AM
>>To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>>Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>>Welcome onboard David.
>>
>>I had exactly the same thoughts as you about metering manual lenses
>>before I
>>tried it. In real life, it is no problem. After 15 minutes using it, you
>>will get used to it. 
>>In high speed situation you must think a bit ahead, watching at the
>>light.
>>If lighting changes you need to re push the button every now and then to
>>make sure to get the exposure right before the decisive moment. 
>>
>>Lack of matrix metering is a bit frustrating. But in most situations you
>>can
>>get around it using the histogram fine tuning the exposure. It's the
>>same as
>>the green button thing. You need to think a bit ahead, being prepared
>>for
>>the decisive moment.
>>
>>But what can you expect. Consider the ability to use old lenses as an
>>extra
>>bonus. 
>>
>>
>>Tim
>>Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>> 
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
>>David Bliss
>>Sent: 8. oktober 2006 10:01
>>To: pdml@pdml.net
>>Subject: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>>Hi all,
>>
>>I'm new to the list but I've been reading the archives for the last few
>>weeks so hopefully I will not make too much of a fool of myself.  I'm a
>>long
>>time amateur user of Pentax 35mm film gear about to buy my first DSLR. I
>>was
>>minutes away from buying a K100D when the K10D was announced...
>>
>>I have a lot of manual-aperture K-mount glass, so being able to use it
>>on
>>a new DSLR is important to me.  I know there are workarounds for using
>>such on the K100D but they're pretty bad (metering on DOF-preview only
>>and/or manually setting aperture to match the lens's).
>>
>>The dpreview page
>>(http://www.dpreview.com/articles/pentaxk10d/page2.asp)
>>and a few other verbatim copies thereof explicitly says 
>>"Ability to use lens aperture ring" so I was very excitted to think that
>>Pentax would have finally fixed this (idiotic) design error on the K10D.
>>
>>But, the press photos of the K10D clearly show an absence of a
>>mechanical
>>aperture coupling lever.  And the (mis)released manual from a couple of
>>days ago documents the same behavior as the K100D.  Can anyone confirm
>>this for sure one was or the other?
>>
>>Also, can anyone explain to me why the K100D (and apparently the K10D)
>>disable
>>(a) non-central AF sensors (for focus confirmation, not AF, obviously)
>>and
>>(b) all the metering modes except CWA when using a pre-A lens?  I cannot
>>conceive of any possible reason these features would care about the lens
>>aperture being set manually.
>>
>>Thanks!
>>David Bliss
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread mike wilson

Bob W wrote:

>>David? David? Still there ;-)
>>
>>I have already welcomed you once. But as this thread turned 
>>out I think it
>>is appropriate to welcome you to this world of lunatics one 
>>more time. It is
>>a soap opera, with live characters, and it is free. 
>>
> 
> 
> No, it's a movie. Groundhog Day.
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
It feels more like Deliverance, tonight.

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread J. C. O'Connell

I am not saying it should be removed, its a good MANUAL
Mode to use ( aside from the fact that its stop down which
Isnt good) when you want or need manual mode. But if you
Want or need AE its NOT THERE.
jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Paul Stenquist
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 2:47 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

I agree. It quickly becomes an automatic. I've even shot sports  
action with K lenses and the *ist D. No problem. In fact, it  
encourages one to think about the exposure.
Paul
On Oct 8, 2006, at 10:45 AM, Tim Øsleby wrote:

> Welcome onboard David.
>
> I had exactly the same thoughts as you about metering manual lenses  
> before I
> tried it. In real life, it is no problem. After 15 minutes using  
> it, you
> will get used to it.
> In high speed situation you must think a bit ahead, watching at the  
> light.
> If lighting changes you need to re push the button every now and  
> then to
> make sure to get the exposure right before the decisive moment.
>
> Lack of matrix metering is a bit frustrating. But in most  
> situations you can
> get around it using the histogram fine tuning the exposure. It's  
> the same as
> the green button thing. You need to think a bit ahead, being  
> prepared for
> the decisive moment.
>
> But what can you expect. Consider the ability to use old lenses as  
> an extra
> bonus.
>
>
> Tim
> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On  
> Behalf Of
> David Bliss
> Sent: 8. oktober 2006 10:01
> To: pdml@pdml.net
> Subject: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm new to the list but I've been reading the archives for the last  
> few
> weeks so hopefully I will not make too much of a fool of myself.   
> I'm a long
> time amateur user of Pentax 35mm film gear about to buy my first  
> DSLR. I was
> minutes away from buying a K100D when the K10D was announced...
>
> I have a lot of manual-aperture K-mount glass, so being able to use  
> it on
> a new DSLR is important to me.  I know there are workarounds for using
> such on the K100D but they're pretty bad (metering on DOF-preview only
> and/or manually setting aperture to match the lens's).
>
> The dpreview page (http://www.dpreview.com/articles/pentaxk10d/ 
> page2.asp)
> and a few other verbatim copies thereof explicitly says
> "Ability to use lens aperture ring" so I was very excitted to think  
> that
> Pentax would have finally fixed this (idiotic) design error on the  
> K10D.
>
> But, the press photos of the K10D clearly show an absence of a  
> mechanical
> aperture coupling lever.  And the (mis)released manual from a  
> couple of
> days ago documents the same behavior as the K100D.  Can anyone confirm
> this for sure one was or the other?
>
> Also, can anyone explain to me why the K100D (and apparently the K10D)
> disable
> (a) non-central AF sensors (for focus confirmation, not AF,  
> obviously) and
> (b) all the metering modes except CWA when using a pre-A lens?  I  
> cannot
> conceive of any possible reason these features would care about the  
> lens
> aperture being set manually.
>
> Thanks!
> David Bliss
>
>
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread J. C. O'Connell

I have tried it , its manual mode stop down 1 shot metering. Whats your
Problem in assuming no other camera has ever had that? Yes, the camera
Sets the speed instead of turning the shutter dial but thats not
The key problem with it when you want or need AE.
jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Paul Stenquist
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 3:00 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

More words of wisdom from someone who hasn't even tried it. Such  
nonsense.

On Oct 8, 2006, at 12:18 PM, J. C. O'Connell wrote:

> Look you can apologize all you want for pentax
> But I have over two dozen world class NICE manual focus
> Pentax PK/PKM lenses and I DONT BUY what I dont
> Want. I wanted K/KM support in the new top line
> Body, if you dont, that doesnt matter to me
> One Iota. ALL of the later Pentax MF lenses are
> Garbage including the "A" series compared to the K/M
> Lenses in terms of build quality and user "feel".
>
> Gimme a friggin break with your "you dont own a pentax DSLR
> So you dont know what youre talking about" B.S.
>
> I never said I wouldnt buy the istD,K100,or K10 but God
> Damn I would buy one yesterday if it had the key features
> I want. Secondly I think the whole point of 35mm/DSLR
> Is fast work and good automation. If I have time to slow
> Down for every shot I would use MF/LF all the time.
>
> jco
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On  
> Behalf Of
> Shel Belinkoff
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:43 AM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>
> It's the same old song from JCO every time the subject comes up.  I
> think
> we all know his view on this by now.  I don't recall, but does he  
> have a
> Pentax DSLR?
>
> I will say this, however, it may be easier for some to adjust to the
> "green
> button" approach than others.  For example, having come from meterless
> cameras and using hand held meters, pushing the AEL button on the DS
> and,
> if desired, checking exposure with the DOF lever, sure makes using  
> pre-A
> lenses easy.  However, I still shoot more than 50% of my shots  
> using my
> own
> exposure guide, the one that's built into my head, rather than  
> using the
> meter in the camera at every shot.
>
> Shel
>
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Tim Øsleby
>
>> I stand corrected, silly me. My perception is obviously
>> wrong  [slapping myself happily over forehead].
>>
>> The glass is half empty, not half full.
>
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: J. C. O'Connell
>
>> No, an "extra bonus" on a $1000 top line
>> camera would be A camera that could read
>> the PK PKM lens aperture setting. That this is
>> Not done is ridiculous as its friggin SIMPLE
>> to implement... Semi automanual manual is
>> good but it aint open aperture AE With PK
>> PKM, while is very possible but still is not done.
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread J. C. O'Connell

How many times I have to tell you? I know what one shot stop down manual
exposure Metering is. I have used it on my spotmatic 1000's of times.
Yes, the DSLRS set the shutter speed instead of turning the shutter
speed dial
On the spotmatics but it AINT automatic exposure and it AINT open
aperture
. Are you retarded or What?  I dont buy what I dont need or want.
And I dont have to use one to know what it CANT do, thats why I read
the
Spec sheet before I buy. You act like I cannot understand unless I use
That particular camera, and that is absurd. Have you ever used aperture
priority AE like The KX/LX has/had? Totally different function.
 jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Paul Stenquist
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 2:50 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

Because it's not shit. I've owned two *ist D cameras and have used K  
lenses on numerous occasions. No problem. Is your opinion based on  
experience or bullshit?
Paul
On Oct 8, 2006, at 11:33 AM, J. C. O'Connell wrote:

> Why settle for shit for no reason?
> Glass is still definitely half empty.
> jco
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On  
> Behalf Of
> Tim Øsleby
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:27 AM
> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>
> I stand corrected, silly me. My perception is obviously wrong
> [slapping myself happily over forehead].
>
> The glass is half empty, not half full.
>
>
> Tim
> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On  
> Behalf Of
> J.
> C. O'Connell
> Sent: 8. oktober 2006 17:03
> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>
> No, an "extra bonus" on a $1000 top line camera would be
> A camera that could read the PK PKM lens aperture setting. That  
> this is
> Not done is ridiculous as its friggin SIMPLE to implement...
> Semi automanual manual is good but it aint open aperture AE
> With PK PKM, while is very possible but still is not done.
> jco
>
> -Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On  
> Behalf Of
> Tim Øsleby
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 10:46 AM
> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>
> Welcome onboard David.
>
> I had exactly the same thoughts as you about metering manual lenses
> before I
> tried it. In real life, it is no problem. After 15 minutes using  
> it, you
> will get used to it.
> In high speed situation you must think a bit ahead, watching at the
> light.
> If lighting changes you need to re push the button every now and  
> then to
> make sure to get the exposure right before the decisive moment.
>
> Lack of matrix metering is a bit frustrating. But in most  
> situations you
> can
> get around it using the histogram fine tuning the exposure. It's the
> same as
> the green button thing. You need to think a bit ahead, being prepared
> for
> the decisive moment.
>
> But what can you expect. Consider the ability to use old lenses as an
> extra
> bonus.
>
>
> Tim
> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On  
> Behalf Of
> David Bliss
> Sent: 8. oktober 2006 10:01
> To: pdml@pdml.net
> Subject: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm new to the list but I've been reading the archives for the last  
> few
> weeks so hopefully I will not make too much of a fool of myself.   
> I'm a
> long
> time amateur user of Pentax 35mm film gear about to buy my first  
> DSLR. I
> was
> minutes away from buying a K100D when the K10D was announced...
>
> I have a lot of manual-aperture K-mount glass, so being able to use it
> on
> a new DSLR is important to me.  I know there are workarounds for using
> such on the K100D but they're pretty bad (metering on DOF-preview only
> and/or manually setting aperture to match the lens's).
>
> The dpreview page
> (http://www.dpreview.com/articles/pentaxk10d/page2.asp)
> and a few other verbatim copies thereof explicitly says
> "Ability to use lens aperture ring" so I was very excitted to think  
> that
> Pentax would have finally fixed this (idiotic) design error on the  
> K10D.
>
> But, the press photos of the K10D clearly show an absence of a
> mechanical
> aperture coupling lever.  And the (mis)released manual from a  
> couple of

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread William Robb


- Original Message - 
From: "Bob W" 
Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?



> 
> No, it's a movie. Groundhog Day.

Deja Screw-You: I've been in this abusive arguement before.

William Robb


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread David Bliss

Tim,

Thanks for the welcome, I appreciate it.  :)  I feel bad for having set off
a landmine of ranting without knowing it...

I'm disappointed that the K10D hasn't readded the aperture linkage, but
I suppose I can tranfer my hopes to the K1D for a while anyway.

I guess the question I REALLY meant to ask was: what, if anything, does
dpreview's assertion that you can "use lens aperture ring" mean,
since it clearly doesn't mean what I think it means?  Even on A lenses,
I for one would much rather set the aperture using the lens aperture ring,
with a nice big custom-designed control, than use a stupid fiddly knob on
the camera body -- just like when doing manual focus I want to use the
lens focus control and not twiddle a potentiometer like on one of my old
Sony cameras (and most non-pro video cameras).

Thanks,
david

PS: Apologies in advance if you get a  duplicate copy of this message; my MUA
is acting up.

> David? David? Still there ;-)
> 
> I have already welcomed you once. But as this thread turned out I think it
> is appropriate to welcome you to this world of lunatics one more time. It is
> a soap opera, with live characters, and it is free. 
> 
> As you can see, asking a simple question here can be a rather mixed
> experience. But within the shouting, you may find an answer to your
> question.
> 
> 
> 
> Tim
> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Adam Maas

Of course, 50% of those lenses you refer to are 50mm f2's sitting in a 
shoebox with a K1000 somewhere.

-Adam

J. C. O'Connell wrote:
> Oh Screw You. You don’t have a clue if you think that legacy
> Lens support is only a minor issue. And like an
> Idiot it's NOT the age of the lenses it's WHAT
> The PK/PKM lenses are, which are superb MANUAL
> Focus lenses which are not even available new
> Anymore so there is great reason to support them.
> AGE IS IRRELAVANT. There are MORE PK/PKM lenses
> In existence than all other lens series combined so
> MOST Pentax BRAND lenses are not fully supported. That’s
> Not good by any standardsThis is a Pentax support
> Issue, not a compatability issue which really sucks
> IMHO. If yours differs, so be it, but you cannot
> Prove your points by calling me an idiot, it just
> Makes you look like an idiot in doing so..
> Jco
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> John Forbes
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 2:21 PM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> 
> Don't apologise to JC O'Connell.
> 
> He is a boring little nitwit who comes onto the list every six months or
> 
> so to wind himself into a frenzy over the lack of full support for very
> 
> old lenses.
> 
> After abusing anyone who disagrees with him (sample: "Gimme a friggin  
> break with your "you don?t own a pentax (sic) DSLR So (sic) you don?t
> know  
> what youre (sic) talking about" B.S.").
> 
> Eventually, after about a dozen posts, this one-issue idiot has an  
> apoplectic fit, and shuts up for another six months while he recovers.
> 
> Then the cycle starts all over again.
> 
> John
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, 08 Oct 2006 16:49:13 +0100, Tim Øsleby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>> I know that now.
>>> From now on I will look for limitations in my equipment.
>> JCO.
>> Sorry about my sarcastic reply. The compatibility could have been
> solved
>> better, I agree on that.
>> But I prefer looking forward, looking for solutions instead of beating
> 
>> this
>> dead horse. I don't believe irritation over this minor issue (for me)
> 
>> will
>> make me a better photographer.
>>
>>
>> Tim
>> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of  
>> J.
>> C. O'Connell
>> Sent: 8. oktober 2006 17:34
>> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>> Why settle for shit for no reason?
>> Glass is still definitely half empty.
>> jco
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of
>> Tim Øsleby
>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:27 AM
>> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>> I stand corrected, silly me. My perception is obviously wrong
>> [slapping myself happily over forehead].
>>
>> The glass is half empty, not half full.
>>
>>
>> Tim
>> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of
>> J.
>> C. O'Connell
>> Sent: 8. oktober 2006 17:03
>> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>> No, an "extra bonus" on a $1000 top line camera would be
>> A camera that could read the PK PKM lens aperture setting. That this
> is
>> Not done is ridiculous as its friggin SIMPLE to implement...
>> Semi automanual manual is good but it aint open aperture AE
>> With PK PKM, while is very possible but still is not done.
>> jco
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of
>> Tim Øsleby
>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 10:46 AM
>> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>> Welcome onboard David.
>>
>> I had exactly the same thoughts as you about metering manual lenses
>> before I
>> tried it. In real life, it is no problem. After 15 minutes using it,
> you
>> will get used to it.
>> In high speed situation you must think a bit ahead, watching at the
>> light.
>> If lighting changes you need to re push the button every now and then
> to
>> make

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread William Robb

- Original Message - 
From: "David Bliss"
Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

> Tim,
>
> Thanks for the welcome, I appreciate it.  :)  I feel bad for having 
> set off
> a landmine of ranting without knowing it...

You had no way of knowing.

>
> I'm disappointed that the K10D hasn't readded the aperture linkage, 
> but
> I suppose I can tranfer my hopes to the K1D for a while anyway.

Don't hold your breath.

>
> I guess the question I REALLY meant to ask was: what, if anything, 
> does
> dpreview's assertion that you can "use lens aperture ring" mean,
> since it clearly doesn't mean what I think it means?  Even on A 
> lenses,
> I for one would much rather set the aperture using the lens aperture 
> ring,
> with a nice big custom-designed control, than use a stupid fiddly knob 
> on
> the camera body -- just like when doing manual focus I want to use the
> lens focus control and not twiddle a potentiometer like on one of my 
> old
> Sony cameras (and most non-pro video cameras).

You can use the lens aperture ring, but you don't get tranparent light 
metering.
The control wheels on the istD aren't bad, though I find myself turning 
them the wrong way most of the time.
Full old mount support would be nice, but the implementation as supplied 
works adequately, though you have to watch your light levels closely, as 
you can drop out of meter's EV range easily.
I lost a couple of minutes sleep over the issue a few years ago, and 
then decided to take the pragmatic approach and buy a bunch of new 
lenses.

William Robb 

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Adam Maas

Except Automatic exposure involves the camera setting one or more 
portion of the exposure, so you're wrong on that count (What it isn't is 
continuous AE).

In fact I've got my K100D setup so that hitting the AE-Lock button does 
exactly the same thing in M mode with an A lens as it does with a pre-A, 
just without the stop-down part. Works like a charm.

-Adam


J. C. O'Connell wrote:
> How many times I have to tell you? I know what one shot stop down manual
> exposure Metering is. I have used it on my spotmatic 1000's of times.
> Yes, the DSLRS set the shutter speed instead of turning the shutter
> speed dial
> On the spotmatics but it AINT automatic exposure and it AINT open
> aperture
> . Are you retarded or What?  I don’t buy what I don’t need or want.
> And I don’t have to use one to know what it CANT do, that’s why I read
> the
> Spec sheet before I buy. You act like I cannot understand unless I use
> That particular camera, and that is absurd. Have you ever used aperture
> priority AE like The KX/LX has/had? Totally different function.
>  jco
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Paul Stenquist
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 2:50 PM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> 
> Because it's not shit. I've owned two *ist D cameras and have used K  
> lenses on numerous occasions. No problem. Is your opinion based on  
> experience or bullshit?
> Paul
> On Oct 8, 2006, at 11:33 AM, J. C. O'Connell wrote:
> 
>> Why settle for shit for no reason?
>> Glass is still definitely half empty.
>> jco
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On  
>> Behalf Of
>> Tim Øsleby
>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:27 AM
>> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>> I stand corrected, silly me. My perception is obviously wrong
>> [slapping myself happily over forehead].
>>
>> The glass is half empty, not half full.
>>
>>
>> Tim
>> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On  
>> Behalf Of
>> J.
>> C. O'Connell
>> Sent: 8. oktober 2006 17:03
>> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>> No, an "extra bonus" on a $1000 top line camera would be
>> A camera that could read the PK PKM lens aperture setting. That  
>> this is
>> Not done is ridiculous as its friggin SIMPLE to implement...
>> Semi automanual manual is good but it aint open aperture AE
>> With PK PKM, while is very possible but still is not done.
>> jco
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On  
>> Behalf Of
>> Tim Øsleby
>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 10:46 AM
>> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>> Welcome onboard David.
>>
>> I had exactly the same thoughts as you about metering manual lenses
>> before I
>> tried it. In real life, it is no problem. After 15 minutes using  
>> it, you
>> will get used to it.
>> In high speed situation you must think a bit ahead, watching at the
>> light.
>> If lighting changes you need to re push the button every now and  
>> then to
>> make sure to get the exposure right before the decisive moment.
>>
>> Lack of matrix metering is a bit frustrating. But in most  
>> situations you
>> can
>> get around it using the histogram fine tuning the exposure. It's the
>> same as
>> the green button thing. You need to think a bit ahead, being prepared
>> for
>> the decisive moment.
>>
>> But what can you expect. Consider the ability to use old lenses as an
>> extra
>> bonus.
>>
>>
>> Tim
>> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On  
>> Behalf Of
>> David Bliss
>> Sent: 8. oktober 2006 10:01
>> To: pdml@pdml.net
>> Subject: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm new to the list but I've been reading the archives for the last  
>> few
>> weeks so hopefully I will not make too much of a fool of myself.   
>> I'm a
>> long
>> time amateur user of Pentax 35mm film gear about t

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Adam Maas

You can use the aperture ring with A, F and FA glass, just with almost 
all the limitations of K glass (You keep Matrix Metering, but lose AE 
and have to stop-down meter).

-Adam


David Bliss wrote:
> Tim,
> 
> Thanks for the welcome, I appreciate it.  :)  I feel bad for having set off
> a landmine of ranting without knowing it...
> 
> I'm disappointed that the K10D hasn't readded the aperture linkage, but
> I suppose I can tranfer my hopes to the K1D for a while anyway.
> 
> I guess the question I REALLY meant to ask was: what, if anything, does
> dpreview's assertion that you can "use lens aperture ring" mean,
> since it clearly doesn't mean what I think it means?  Even on A lenses,
> I for one would much rather set the aperture using the lens aperture ring,
> with a nice big custom-designed control, than use a stupid fiddly knob on
> the camera body -- just like when doing manual focus I want to use the
> lens focus control and not twiddle a potentiometer like on one of my old
> Sony cameras (and most non-pro video cameras).
> 
> Thanks,
> david
> 
> PS: Apologies in advance if you get a  duplicate copy of this message; my MUA
> is acting up.
> 
>> David? David? Still there ;-)
>>
>> I have already welcomed you once. But as this thread turned out I think it
>> is appropriate to welcome you to this world of lunatics one more time. It is
>> a soap opera, with live characters, and it is free. 
>>
>> As you can see, asking a simple question here can be a rather mixed
>> experience. But within the shouting, you may find an answer to your
>> question.
>>
>>
>>
>> Tim
>> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
> 


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Thibouille

David, simply the factory setting is that the K10D (the ist)D did that
too) is to prevent you from shooting with a K/M/M42 lens.
If you still want to shoot (and obviously you know the limitations of
the system) you can set thatoption to yes. You can then use the Green
button/AEL trick.

-- 

Thibault Massart aka Thibouille
--
*ist-D,Z1,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ...

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Tim Øsleby

Don't feel bad. 
This was just a refreshing little breeze. In the end we all love to hate
each other.


Tim
Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
David Bliss
Sent: 8. oktober 2006 22:45
To: pdml@pdml.net
Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

Tim,

Thanks for the welcome, I appreciate it.  :)  I feel bad for having set off
a landmine of ranting without knowing it...

I'm disappointed that the K10D hasn't readded the aperture linkage, but
I suppose I can tranfer my hopes to the K1D for a while anyway.

I guess the question I REALLY meant to ask was: what, if anything, does
dpreview's assertion that you can "use lens aperture ring" mean,
since it clearly doesn't mean what I think it means?  Even on A lenses,
I for one would much rather set the aperture using the lens aperture ring,
with a nice big custom-designed control, than use a stupid fiddly knob on
the camera body -- just like when doing manual focus I want to use the
lens focus control and not twiddle a potentiometer like on one of my old
Sony cameras (and most non-pro video cameras).

Thanks,
david

PS: Apologies in advance if you get a  duplicate copy of this message; my
MUA
is acting up.

> David? David? Still there ;-)
> 
> I have already welcomed you once. But as this thread turned out I think it
> is appropriate to welcome you to this world of lunatics one more time. It
is
> a soap opera, with live characters, and it is free. 
> 
> As you can see, asking a simple question here can be a rather mixed
> experience. But within the shouting, you may find an answer to your
> question.
> 
> 
> 
> Tim
> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread J. C. O'Connell

And whats wrong with 50mm F2's? :)
Seriuosly, pentax made a lot of 
Really nice K and M lenses and they
For the most part are holding up
Excellently due to the great build quality.
To not fully support these millions of
Excellent PENTAX Lenses is really shameful...
jco
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Adam Maas
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 4:55 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

Of course, 50% of those lenses you refer to are 50mm f2's sitting in a 
shoebox with a K1000 somewhere.

-Adam

J. C. O'Connell wrote:
> Oh Screw You. You dont have a clue if you think that legacy
> Lens support is only a minor issue. And like an
> Idiot it's NOT the age of the lenses it's WHAT
> The PK/PKM lenses are, which are superb MANUAL
> Focus lenses which are not even available new
> Anymore so there is great reason to support them.
> AGE IS IRRELAVANT. There are MORE PK/PKM lenses
> In existence than all other lens series combined so
> MOST Pentax BRAND lenses are not fully supported. Thats
> Not good by any standardsThis is a Pentax support
> Issue, not a compatability issue which really sucks
> IMHO. If yours differs, so be it, but you cannot
> Prove your points by calling me an idiot, it just
> Makes you look like an idiot in doing so..
> Jco
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of
> John Forbes
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 2:21 PM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> 
> Don't apologise to JC O'Connell.
> 
> He is a boring little nitwit who comes onto the list every six months
or
> 
> so to wind himself into a frenzy over the lack of full support for
very
> 
> old lenses.
> 
> After abusing anyone who disagrees with him (sample: "Gimme a friggin

> break with your "you don?t own a pentax (sic) DSLR So (sic) you don?t
> know  
> what youre (sic) talking about" B.S.").
> 
> Eventually, after about a dozen posts, this one-issue idiot has an  
> apoplectic fit, and shuts up for another six months while he recovers.
> 
> Then the cycle starts all over again.
> 
> John
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, 08 Oct 2006 16:49:13 +0100, Tim Øsleby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> 
>> I know that now.
>>> From now on I will look for limitations in my equipment.
>> JCO.
>> Sorry about my sarcastic reply. The compatibility could have been
> solved
>> better, I agree on that.
>> But I prefer looking forward, looking for solutions instead of
beating
> 
>> this
>> dead horse. I don't believe irritation over this minor issue (for me)
> 
>> will
>> make me a better photographer.
>>
>>
>> Tim
>> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of  
>> J.
>> C. O'Connell
>> Sent: 8. oktober 2006 17:34
>> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>> Why settle for shit for no reason?
>> Glass is still definitely half empty.
>> jco
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of
>> Tim Øsleby
>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:27 AM
>> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>> I stand corrected, silly me. My perception is obviously wrong
>> [slapping myself happily over forehead].
>>
>> The glass is half empty, not half full.
>>
>>
>> Tim
>> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of
>> J.
>> C. O'Connell
>> Sent: 8. oktober 2006 17:03
>> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>> No, an "extra bonus" on a $1000 top line camera would be
>> A camera that could read the PK PKM lens aperture setting. That this
> is
>> Not done is ridiculous as its friggin SIMPLE to implement...
>> Semi automanual manual is good but it aint open aperture AE
>> With PK PKM, while is very possible but still is not done.
>> jco
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of
>> Tim Øsleby
>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 10:46 AM
>> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>> Subject: RE: k

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread J. C. O'Connell

No automatic exposure has traditional always been
Continous after setting one parameter ( in this
Case the aperture ). This is simply a 1 shot
Stop down manual exposure mode where the camera
Finds the correct shutter speed for you ONE TIME
And doesnt correct if the lighting or aperture
Changes like traditional AE always has. Its not
Really AE its metered manual or "AE with AE LOCK
Always ON" which is quite another story.
jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Adam Maas
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 5:04 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

Except Automatic exposure involves the camera setting one or more 
portion of the exposure, so you're wrong on that count (What it isn't is

continuous AE).

In fact I've got my K100D setup so that hitting the AE-Lock button does 
exactly the same thing in M mode with an A lens as it does with a pre-A,

just without the stop-down part. Works like a charm.

-Adam


J. C. O'Connell wrote:
> How many times I have to tell you? I know what one shot stop down
manual
> exposure Metering is. I have used it on my spotmatic 1000's of times.
> Yes, the DSLRS set the shutter speed instead of turning the shutter
> speed dial
> On the spotmatics but it AINT automatic exposure and it AINT open
> aperture
> . Are you retarded or What?  I dont buy what I dont need or want.
> And I dont have to use one to know what it CANT do, thats why I read
> the
> Spec sheet before I buy. You act like I cannot understand unless I use
> That particular camera, and that is absurd. Have you ever used
aperture
> priority AE like The KX/LX has/had? Totally different function.
>  jco
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of
> Paul Stenquist
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 2:50 PM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> 
> Because it's not shit. I've owned two *ist D cameras and have used K  
> lenses on numerous occasions. No problem. Is your opinion based on  
> experience or bullshit?
> Paul
> On Oct 8, 2006, at 11:33 AM, J. C. O'Connell wrote:
> 
>> Why settle for shit for no reason?
>> Glass is still definitely half empty.
>> jco
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On  
>> Behalf Of
>> Tim Øsleby
>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:27 AM
>> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>> I stand corrected, silly me. My perception is obviously wrong
>> [slapping myself happily over forehead].
>>
>> The glass is half empty, not half full.
>>
>>
>> Tim
>> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On  
>> Behalf Of
>> J.
>> C. O'Connell
>> Sent: 8. oktober 2006 17:03
>> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>> No, an "extra bonus" on a $1000 top line camera would be
>> A camera that could read the PK PKM lens aperture setting. That  
>> this is
>> Not done is ridiculous as its friggin SIMPLE to implement...
>> Semi automanual manual is good but it aint open aperture AE
>> With PK PKM, while is very possible but still is not done.
>> jco
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On  
>> Behalf Of
>> Tim Øsleby
>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 10:46 AM
>> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>> Welcome onboard David.
>>
>> I had exactly the same thoughts as you about metering manual lenses
>> before I
>> tried it. In real life, it is no problem. After 15 minutes using  
>> it, you
>> will get used to it.
>> In high speed situation you must think a bit ahead, watching at the
>> light.
>> If lighting changes you need to re push the button every now and  
>> then to
>> make sure to get the exposure right before the decisive moment.
>>
>> Lack of matrix metering is a bit frustrating. But in most  
>> situations you
>> can
>> get around it using the histogram fine tuning the exposure. It's the
>> same as
>> the green button thing. You need to think a bit ahead, being prepared
>> for
>> the decisive moment.
>>
>> But what can you expect. Consider the ability to use old lenses as an
>> extra
>> bonus.
>>

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread William Robb

- Original Message - 
From: "J. C. O'Connell"
Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

No automatic exposure has traditional always been
Continous after setting one parameter ( in this
Case the aperture ). This is simply a 1 shot
Stop down manual exposure mode where the camera
Finds the correct shutter speed for you ONE TIME
And doesn’t correct if the lighting or aperture
Changes like traditional AE always has. Its not
Really AE its metered manual or "AE with AE LOCK
Always ON" which is quite another story.

Is there a point, other than a semantics debate, to all this?

William Robb 

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread J. C. O'Connell

But the new lenses cant do what the old ones can, manual focus
With VERY smooth precision. That's why I want the PK/PKM support.
jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
William Robb
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 5:03 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

- Original Message - 
From: "David Bliss"
Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

> Tim,
>
> Thanks for the welcome, I appreciate it.  :)  I feel bad for having 
> set off
> a landmine of ranting without knowing it...

You had no way of knowing.

>
> I'm disappointed that the K10D hasn't readded the aperture linkage, 
> but
> I suppose I can tranfer my hopes to the K1D for a while anyway.

Don't hold your breath.

>
> I guess the question I REALLY meant to ask was: what, if anything, 
> does
> dpreview's assertion that you can "use lens aperture ring" mean,
> since it clearly doesn't mean what I think it means?  Even on A 
> lenses,
> I for one would much rather set the aperture using the lens aperture 
> ring,
> with a nice big custom-designed control, than use a stupid fiddly knob

> on
> the camera body -- just like when doing manual focus I want to use the
> lens focus control and not twiddle a potentiometer like on one of my 
> old
> Sony cameras (and most non-pro video cameras).

You can use the lens aperture ring, but you don't get tranparent light 
metering.
The control wheels on the istD aren't bad, though I find myself turning 
them the wrong way most of the time.
Full old mount support would be nice, but the implementation as supplied

works adequately, though you have to watch your light levels closely, as

you can drop out of meter's EV range easily.
I lost a couple of minutes sleep over the issue a few years ago, and 
then decided to take the pragmatic approach and buy a bunch of new 
lenses.

William Robb 

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread William Robb


- Original Message - 
From: "J. C. O'Connell" 
Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?


> The stop down metering is the culprit of falling out
> Of the metering range too easy, especially at small f-stop
> Settings. This is one of the key reasons OPEN aperture
> Metering was developed about 35 YEARS ago.

You aren't saying anything new.
This is pretty much a dead topic.

William Robb


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread J. C. O'Connell

Yes, READ or delete. But don't argue
That LOCKED AE is AE when it isn't.
that's not semantics, that's major functional
differences. If it didn't matter, Pentax
Wouldn't have put the aperture cams on the lenses
in the first place back in '75. ( '71 if you
count the SMCT Pentax screw lenses).
jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
William Robb
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 5:31 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?


- Original Message - 
From: "J. C. O'Connell"
Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?


No automatic exposure has traditional always been
Continous after setting one parameter ( in this
Case the aperture ). This is simply a 1 shot
Stop down manual exposure mode where the camera
Finds the correct shutter speed for you ONE TIME
And doesn't correct if the lighting or aperture
Changes like traditional AE always has. Its not
Really AE its metered manual or "AE with AE LOCK
Always ON" which is quite another story.

Is there a point, other than a semantics debate, to all this?

William Robb 



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread William Robb


- Original Message - 
From: "J. C. O'Connell"
Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?


> Yes, READ or delete. But don't argue
> That LOCKED AE is AE when it isn't.
> that's not semantics, that's major functional
> differences. If it didn't matter, Pentax
> Wouldn't have put the aperture cams on the lenses
> in the first place back in '75. ( '71 if you
> count the SMCT Pentax screw lenses).

I'm not arguing John. I'm just wondering if you have a new point to make 
or if you are just regurgitating your cud again.

William Robb 



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread J. C. O'Connell

The stop down metering is the culprit of falling out
Of the metering range too easy, especially at small f-stop
Settings. This is one of the key reasons OPEN aperture
Metering was developed about 35 YEARS ago.
jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
William Robb
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 5:03 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?


- Original Message - 
From: "David Bliss"
Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?


> Tim,
>
> Thanks for the welcome, I appreciate it.  :)  I feel bad for having 
> set off
> a landmine of ranting without knowing it...

You had no way of knowing.

>
> I'm disappointed that the K10D hasn't readded the aperture linkage, 
> but
> I suppose I can tranfer my hopes to the K1D for a while anyway.

Don't hold your breath.

>
> I guess the question I REALLY meant to ask was: what, if anything, 
> does
> dpreview's assertion that you can "use lens aperture ring" mean,
> since it clearly doesn't mean what I think it means?  Even on A 
> lenses,
> I for one would much rather set the aperture using the lens aperture 
> ring,
> with a nice big custom-designed control, than use a stupid fiddly knob

> on
> the camera body -- just like when doing manual focus I want to use the
> lens focus control and not twiddle a potentiometer like on one of my 
> old
> Sony cameras (and most non-pro video cameras).

You can use the lens aperture ring, but you don't get tranparent light 
metering.
The control wheels on the istD aren't bad, though I find myself turning 
them the wrong way most of the time.
Full old mount support would be nice, but the implementation as supplied

works adequately, though you have to watch your light levels closely, as

you can drop out of meter's EV range easily.
I lost a couple of minutes sleep over the issue a few years ago, and 
then decided to take the pragmatic approach and buy a bunch of new 
lenses.

William Robb 



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread J. C. O'Connell

Dead to you maybe.. I havent given up on the matter (yet) .. 
Full frame too!
jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
William Robb
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 5:32 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?


- Original Message - 
From: "J. C. O'Connell" 
Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?


> The stop down metering is the culprit of falling out
> Of the metering range too easy, especially at small f-stop
> Settings. This is one of the key reasons OPEN aperture
> Metering was developed about 35 YEARS ago.

You aren't saying anything new.
This is pretty much a dead topic.

William Robb


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Adam Maas

Nothing wrong with them, I'm fond of mine. But the monstrous amount of 
them floating around does not a market make. Other pre-A glass is 
significantly more rare.

-Adam


J. C. O'Connell wrote:
> And whats wrong with 50mm F2's? :)
> Seriuosly, pentax made a lot of 
> Really nice K and M lenses and they
> For the most part are holding up
> Excellently due to the great build quality.
> To not fully support these millions of
> Excellent PENTAX Lenses is really shameful...
> jco
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Adam Maas
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 4:55 PM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> 
> Of course, 50% of those lenses you refer to are 50mm f2's sitting in a 
> shoebox with a K1000 somewhere.
> 
> -Adam
> 
> J. C. O'Connell wrote:
>> Oh Screw You. You don’t have a clue if you think that legacy
>> Lens support is only a minor issue. And like an
>> Idiot it's NOT the age of the lenses it's WHAT
>> The PK/PKM lenses are, which are superb MANUAL
>> Focus lenses which are not even available new
>> Anymore so there is great reason to support them.
>> AGE IS IRRELAVANT. There are MORE PK/PKM lenses
>> In existence than all other lens series combined so
>> MOST Pentax BRAND lenses are not fully supported. That’s
>> Not good by any standardsThis is a Pentax support
>> Issue, not a compatability issue which really sucks
>> IMHO. If yours differs, so be it, but you cannot
>> Prove your points by calling me an idiot, it just
>> Makes you look like an idiot in doing so..
>> Jco
>>
>> -Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of
>> John Forbes
>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 2:21 PM
>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>> Don't apologise to JC O'Connell.
>>
>> He is a boring little nitwit who comes onto the list every six months
> or
>> so to wind himself into a frenzy over the lack of full support for
> very
>> old lenses.
>>
>> After abusing anyone who disagrees with him (sample: "Gimme a friggin
> 
>> break with your "you don?t own a pentax (sic) DSLR So (sic) you don?t
>> know  
>> what youre (sic) talking about" B.S.").
>>
>> Eventually, after about a dozen posts, this one-issue idiot has an  
>> apoplectic fit, and shuts up for another six months while he recovers.
>>
>> Then the cycle starts all over again.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 08 Oct 2006 16:49:13 +0100, Tim Øsleby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>>> I know that now.
>>>> From now on I will look for limitations in my equipment.
>>> JCO.
>>> Sorry about my sarcastic reply. The compatibility could have been
>> solved
>>> better, I agree on that.
>>> But I prefer looking forward, looking for solutions instead of
> beating
>>> this
>>> dead horse. I don't believe irritation over this minor issue (for me)
>>> will
>>> make me a better photographer.
>>>
>>>
>>> Tim
>>> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
>> Of  
>>> J.
>>> C. O'Connell
>>> Sent: 8. oktober 2006 17:34
>>> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>>> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>>
>>> Why settle for shit for no reason?
>>> Glass is still definitely half empty.
>>> jco
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
>> Of
>>> Tim Øsleby
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:27 AM
>>> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>>> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>>
>>> I stand corrected, silly me. My perception is obviously wrong
>>> [slapping myself happily over forehead].
>>>
>>> The glass is half empty, not half full.
>>>
>>>
>>> Tim
>>> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
>> Of
>>> J.
>>> C. O'Connell
>>> Sent: 8. oktober 2006 17:03
>>> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>>> Sub

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread John Forbes

On Sun, 08 Oct 2006 17:58:38 +0100, J. C. O'Connell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:

> I want the feature very much and I am
> Sure there are millions of lens owners that do to.

Really?

Rubbish!

John

-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Adam Maas

AE is AE.

There are different kinds, but the fact it isn't continuous doesn't mean 
it's not AE. It's just not the kind you want.

-Adam


J. C. O'Connell wrote:
> Yes, READ or delete. But don't argue
> That LOCKED AE is AE when it isn't.
> that's not semantics, that's major functional
> differences. If it didn't matter, Pentax
> Wouldn't have put the aperture cams on the lenses
> in the first place back in '75. ( '71 if you
> count the SMCT Pentax screw lenses).
> jco
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> William Robb
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 5:31 PM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "J. C. O'Connell"
> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> 
> 
> No automatic exposure has traditional always been
> Continous after setting one parameter ( in this
> Case the aperture ). This is simply a 1 shot
> Stop down manual exposure mode where the camera
> Finds the correct shutter speed for you ONE TIME
> And doesn't correct if the lighting or aperture
> Changes like traditional AE always has. Its not
> Really AE its metered manual or "AE with AE LOCK
> Always ON" which is quite another story.
> 
> Is there a point, other than a semantics debate, to all this?
> 
> William Robb 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread J. C. O'Connell

Correction: Millions of lenses, not owners...
jco
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
John Forbes
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 5:53 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

On Sun, 08 Oct 2006 17:58:38 +0100, J. C. O'Connell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

wrote:

> I want the feature very much and I am
> Sure there are millions of lens owners that do to.

Really?

Rubbish!

John

-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread J. C. O'Connell

Total Bullshit, Like I said in my earlier posts,
Pentax was on top of the world in the K/M era
In popularity. There are more K/M lenses in existance
Than ALL THE OTHER SERIES COMBINED. Just try ebay.
You have it ass backwards, finding lenses "A" or
Later is much harder than K/M series, ebay or elsewhere.
jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Adam Maas
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 5:53 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

Nothing wrong with them, I'm fond of mine. But the monstrous amount of 
them floating around does not a market make. Other pre-A glass is 
significantly more rare.

-Adam


J. C. O'Connell wrote:
> And whats wrong with 50mm F2's? :)
> Seriuosly, pentax made a lot of 
> Really nice K and M lenses and they
> For the most part are holding up
> Excellently due to the great build quality.
> To not fully support these millions of
> Excellent PENTAX Lenses is really shameful...
> jco
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of
> Adam Maas
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 4:55 PM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> 
> Of course, 50% of those lenses you refer to are 50mm f2's sitting in a

> shoebox with a K1000 somewhere.
> 
> -Adam
> 
> J. C. O'Connell wrote:
>> Oh Screw You. You dont have a clue if you think that legacy
>> Lens support is only a minor issue. And like an
>> Idiot it's NOT the age of the lenses it's WHAT
>> The PK/PKM lenses are, which are superb MANUAL
>> Focus lenses which are not even available new
>> Anymore so there is great reason to support them.
>> AGE IS IRRELAVANT. There are MORE PK/PKM lenses
>> In existence than all other lens series combined so
>> MOST Pentax BRAND lenses are not fully supported. Thats
>> Not good by any standardsThis is a Pentax support
>> Issue, not a compatability issue which really sucks
>> IMHO. If yours differs, so be it, but you cannot
>> Prove your points by calling me an idiot, it just
>> Makes you look like an idiot in doing so..
>> Jco
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of
>> John Forbes
>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 2:21 PM
>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>> Don't apologise to JC O'Connell.
>>
>> He is a boring little nitwit who comes onto the list every six months
> or
>> so to wind himself into a frenzy over the lack of full support for
> very
>> old lenses.
>>
>> After abusing anyone who disagrees with him (sample: "Gimme a friggin
> 
>> break with your "you don?t own a pentax (sic) DSLR So (sic) you don?t
>> know  
>> what youre (sic) talking about" B.S.").
>>
>> Eventually, after about a dozen posts, this one-issue idiot has an  
>> apoplectic fit, and shuts up for another six months while he
recovers.
>>
>> Then the cycle starts all over again.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 08 Oct 2006 16:49:13 +0100, Tim Øsleby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>>> I know that now.
>>>> From now on I will look for limitations in my equipment.
>>> JCO.
>>> Sorry about my sarcastic reply. The compatibility could have been
>> solved
>>> better, I agree on that.
>>> But I prefer looking forward, looking for solutions instead of
> beating
>>> this
>>> dead horse. I don't believe irritation over this minor issue (for
me)
>>> will
>>> make me a better photographer.
>>>
>>>
>>> Tim
>>> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
>> Of  
>>> J.
>>> C. O'Connell
>>> Sent: 8. oktober 2006 17:34
>>> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>>> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>>
>>> Why settle for shit for no reason?
>>> Glass is still definitely half empty.
>>> jco
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
>> Of
>>> Tim Øsleby
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:27 AM
>>> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>>> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>>
>>> I stand corrected, silly me.

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread J. C. O'Connell

And whats "new" about your complaints with my posts...
Someone else was continuing to state that these cameras
Do AE with PK/PKM, that's the only reason for my replies...
jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
William Robb
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 5:40 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?


- Original Message - 
From: "J. C. O'Connell"
Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?


> Yes, READ or delete. But don't argue
> That LOCKED AE is AE when it isn't.
> that's not semantics, that's major functional
> differences. If it didn't matter, Pentax
> Wouldn't have put the aperture cams on the lenses
> in the first place back in '75. ( '71 if you
> count the SMCT Pentax screw lenses).

I'm not arguing John. I'm just wondering if you have a new point to make

or if you are just regurgitating your cud again.

William Robb 



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread J. C. O'Connell

LOCKED AE isnt AE its LOCKED AE.
I want AE in addition to LOCKED AE.
Simple enough concept for you?
jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Adam Maas
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 5:56 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

AE is AE.

There are different kinds, but the fact it isn't continuous doesn't mean

it's not AE. It's just not the kind you want.

-Adam


J. C. O'Connell wrote:
> Yes, READ or delete. But don't argue
> That LOCKED AE is AE when it isn't.
> that's not semantics, that's major functional
> differences. If it didn't matter, Pentax
> Wouldn't have put the aperture cams on the lenses
> in the first place back in '75. ( '71 if you
> count the SMCT Pentax screw lenses).
> jco
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of
> William Robb
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 5:31 PM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "J. C. O'Connell"
> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> 
> 
> No automatic exposure has traditional always been
> Continous after setting one parameter ( in this
> Case the aperture ). This is simply a 1 shot
> Stop down manual exposure mode where the camera
> Finds the correct shutter speed for you ONE TIME
> And doesn't correct if the lighting or aperture
> Changes like traditional AE always has. Its not
> Really AE its metered manual or "AE with AE LOCK
> Always ON" which is quite another story.
> 
> Is there a point, other than a semantics debate, to all this?
> 
> William Robb 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Paul Stenquist


On Oct 8, 2006, at 3:39 PM, J. C. O'Connell wrote:

>
> . Are you retarded or What?

Or what.

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Jack Davis

So Bill, Ya actually fell for the Pentax scheme, eh? 

Jack

--- William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "David Bliss"
> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> 
> 
> > Tim,
> >
> > Thanks for the welcome, I appreciate it.  :)  I feel bad for having
> 
> > set off
> > a landmine of ranting without knowing it...
> 
> You had no way of knowing.
> 
> >
> > I'm disappointed that the K10D hasn't readded the aperture linkage,
> 
> > but
> > I suppose I can tranfer my hopes to the K1D for a while anyway.
> 
> Don't hold your breath.
> 
> >
> > I guess the question I REALLY meant to ask was: what, if anything, 
> > does
> > dpreview's assertion that you can "use lens aperture ring" mean,
> > since it clearly doesn't mean what I think it means?  Even on A 
> > lenses,
> > I for one would much rather set the aperture using the lens
> aperture 
> > ring,
> > with a nice big custom-designed control, than use a stupid fiddly
> knob 
> > on
> > the camera body -- just like when doing manual focus I want to use
> the
> > lens focus control and not twiddle a potentiometer like on one of
> my 
> > old
> > Sony cameras (and most non-pro video cameras).
> 
> You can use the lens aperture ring, but you don't get tranparent
> light 
> metering.
> The control wheels on the istD aren't bad, though I find myself
> turning 
> them the wrong way most of the time.
> Full old mount support would be nice, but the implementation as
> supplied 
> works adequately, though you have to watch your light levels closely,
> as 
> you can drop out of meter's EV range easily.
> I lost a couple of minutes sleep over the issue a few years ago, and 
> then decided to take the pragmatic approach and buy a bunch of new 
> lenses.
> 
> William Robb 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> 


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Paul Stenquist


On Oct 8, 2006, at 3:15 PM, mike wilson wrote:

> Adam Maas wrote:
>> Because it ain't shit.
>>
>> The green button hack is one of the reasons I bought the K100D to
>> replace my D50. Some metering is better than no metering. And  
>> that's the
>> choice we're faced with.
>>
>> The Aperture Simulator is dead. Deal With It. Those of us who  
>> shoot with
>> K glass and the DSLR's are doing just fine.
>>
>> -Adam
>
> Not all of us.
>
But you're a digital newbie. Give it time. It's no big deal. If you  
can shoot with a Barnack Leica or a Spotmatic, the green button  
"kludge" is no big deal.

Paul

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Paul Stenquist

HAR!!

On Oct 8, 2006, at 4:54 PM, Adam Maas wrote:

> Of course, 50% of those lenses you refer to are 50mm f2's sitting in a
> shoebox with a K1000 somewhere.
>
> -Adam
>
> J. C. O'Connell wrote:
>> Oh Screw You. You don’t have a clue if you think that legacy
>> Lens support is only a minor issue. And like an
>> Idiot it's NOT the age of the lenses it's WHAT
>> The PK/PKM lenses are, which are superb MANUAL
>> Focus lenses which are not even available new
>> Anymore so there is great reason to support them.
>> AGE IS IRRELAVANT. There are MORE PK/PKM lenses
>> In existence than all other lens series combined so
>> MOST Pentax BRAND lenses are not fully supported. That’s
>> Not good by any standardsThis is a Pentax support
>> Issue, not a compatability issue which really sucks
>> IMHO. If yours differs, so be it, but you cannot
>> Prove your points by calling me an idiot, it just
>> Makes you look like an idiot in doing so..
>> Jco
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On  
>> Behalf Of
>> John Forbes
>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 2:21 PM
>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>> Don't apologise to JC O'Connell.
>>
>> He is a boring little nitwit who comes onto the list every six  
>> months or
>>
>> so to wind himself into a frenzy over the lack of full support for  
>> very
>>
>> old lenses.
>>
>> After abusing anyone who disagrees with him (sample: "Gimme a friggin
>> break with your "you don?t own a pentax (sic) DSLR So (sic) you don?t
>> know
>> what youre (sic) talking about" B.S.").
>>
>> Eventually, after about a dozen posts, this one-issue idiot has an
>> apoplectic fit, and shuts up for another six months while he  
>> recovers.
>>
>> Then the cycle starts all over again.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 08 Oct 2006 16:49:13 +0100, Tim Øsleby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I know that now.
>>>> From now on I will look for limitations in my equipment.
>>> JCO.
>>> Sorry about my sarcastic reply. The compatibility could have been
>> solved
>>> better, I agree on that.
>>> But I prefer looking forward, looking for solutions instead of  
>>> beating
>>
>>> this
>>> dead horse. I don't believe irritation over this minor issue (for  
>>> me)
>>
>>> will
>>> make me a better photographer.
>>>
>>>
>>> Tim
>>> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
>> Of
>>> J.
>>> C. O'Connell
>>> Sent: 8. oktober 2006 17:34
>>> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>>> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>>
>>> Why settle for shit for no reason?
>>> Glass is still definitely half empty.
>>> jco
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
>> Of
>>> Tim Øsleby
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:27 AM
>>> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>>> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>>
>>> I stand corrected, silly me. My perception is obviously wrong
>>> [slapping myself happily over forehead].
>>>
>>> The glass is half empty, not half full.
>>>
>>>
>>> Tim
>>> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
>> Of
>>> J.
>>> C. O'Connell
>>> Sent: 8. oktober 2006 17:03
>>> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
>>> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>>
>>> No, an "extra bonus" on a $1000 top line camera would be
>>> A camera that could read the PK PKM lens aperture setting. That this
>> is
>>> Not done is ridiculous as its friggin SIMPLE to implement...
>>> Semi automanual manual is good but it aint open aperture AE
>>> With PK PKM, while is very possible but still is not done.
>>> jco
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
>> Of
>>> Tim Øsleby
>

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Adam Maas

You want cntinuous AE.Locked AE and Continuous AE are both AE.

-Adam


J. C. O'Connell wrote:
> LOCKED AE isnt AE its LOCKED AE.
> I want AE in addition to LOCKED AE.
> Simple enough concept for you?
> jco
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Adam Maas
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 5:56 PM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> 
> AE is AE.
> 
> There are different kinds, but the fact it isn't continuous doesn't mean
> 
> it's not AE. It's just not the kind you want.
> 
> -Adam
> 
> 
> J. C. O'Connell wrote:
>> Yes, READ or delete. But don't argue
>> That LOCKED AE is AE when it isn't.
>> that's not semantics, that's major functional
>> differences. If it didn't matter, Pentax
>> Wouldn't have put the aperture cams on the lenses
>> in the first place back in '75. ( '71 if you
>> count the SMCT Pentax screw lenses).
>> jco
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of
>> William Robb
>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 5:31 PM
>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "J. C. O'Connell"
>> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>>
>> No automatic exposure has traditional always been
>> Continous after setting one parameter ( in this
>> Case the aperture ). This is simply a 1 shot
>> Stop down manual exposure mode where the camera
>> Finds the correct shutter speed for you ONE TIME
>> And doesn't correct if the lighting or aperture
>> Changes like traditional AE always has. Its not
>> Really AE its metered manual or "AE with AE LOCK
>> Always ON" which is quite another story.
>>
>> Is there a point, other than a semantics debate, to all this?
>>
>> William Robb 
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Adam Maas

Ok, try finding a K 85. Sure, there are a lot of K/M lenses out there, 
but the A and later lenses are at least as common as the non-50mm 
Pentax-branded K's today. A lot of K lenses (especially anything other 
than 28, 35, 50 or 135's) are quite rare, like the 85. Many of the A 
lenses (including the 50mm f2) were in production far longer than the 
equivalent K/M lenses.

-Adam


J. C. O'Connell wrote:
> Total Bullshit, Like I said in my earlier posts,
> Pentax was on top of the world in the K/M era
> In popularity. There are more K/M lenses in existance
> Than ALL THE OTHER SERIES COMBINED. Just try ebay.
> You have it ass backwards, finding lenses "A" or
> Later is much harder than K/M series, ebay or elsewhere.
> jco
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Adam Maas
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 5:53 PM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> 
> Nothing wrong with them, I'm fond of mine. But the monstrous amount of 
> them floating around does not a market make. Other pre-A glass is 
> significantly more rare.
> 
> -Adam
> 
> 
> J. C. O'Connell wrote:
>> And whats wrong with 50mm F2's? :)
>> Seriuosly, pentax made a lot of 
>> Really nice K and M lenses and they
>> For the most part are holding up
>> Excellently due to the great build quality.
>> To not fully support these millions of
>> Excellent PENTAX Lenses is really shameful...
>> jco
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of
>> Adam Maas
>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 4:55 PM
>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>> Of course, 50% of those lenses you refer to are 50mm f2's sitting in a
> 
>> shoebox with a K1000 somewhere.
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>> J. C. O'Connell wrote:
>>> Oh Screw You. You don’t have a clue if you think that legacy
>>> Lens support is only a minor issue. And like an
>>> Idiot it's NOT the age of the lenses it's WHAT
>>> The PK/PKM lenses are, which are superb MANUAL
>>> Focus lenses which are not even available new
>>> Anymore so there is great reason to support them.
>>> AGE IS IRRELAVANT. There are MORE PK/PKM lenses
>>> In existence than all other lens series combined so
>>> MOST Pentax BRAND lenses are not fully supported. That’s
>>> Not good by any standardsThis is a Pentax support
>>> Issue, not a compatability issue which really sucks
>>> IMHO. If yours differs, so be it, but you cannot
>>> Prove your points by calling me an idiot, it just
>>> Makes you look like an idiot in doing so..
>>> Jco
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
>> Of
>>> John Forbes
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 2:21 PM
>>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>> Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>>
>>> Don't apologise to JC O'Connell.
>>>
>>> He is a boring little nitwit who comes onto the list every six months
>> or
>>> so to wind himself into a frenzy over the lack of full support for
>> very
>>> old lenses.
>>>
>>> After abusing anyone who disagrees with him (sample: "Gimme a friggin
>>> break with your "you don?t own a pentax (sic) DSLR So (sic) you don?t
>>> know  
>>> what youre (sic) talking about" B.S.").
>>>
>>> Eventually, after about a dozen posts, this one-issue idiot has an  
>>> apoplectic fit, and shuts up for another six months while he
> recovers.
>>> Then the cycle starts all over again.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, 08 Oct 2006 16:49:13 +0100, Tim Øsleby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>>>> I know that now.
>>>>> From now on I will look for limitations in my equipment.
>>>> JCO.
>>>> Sorry about my sarcastic reply. The compatibility could have been
>>> solved
>>>> better, I agree on that.
>>>> But I prefer looking forward, looking for solutions instead of
>> beating
>>>> this
>>>> dead horse. I don't believe irritation over this minor issue (for
> me)
>>>> will
>>>> make me a better photographer.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tim
>>>> Mostly harml

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Godfrey DiGiorgi

I see someone is off his medication again.

G

On Oct 8, 2006, at 5:19 PM, J. C. O'Connell wrote:

> Bullshit. There is nothing to prevent its implementation
> In the future, either by Pentax or other camera makers
> Using the PK mount.
> jco


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread William Robb


- Original Message - 
From: "J. C. O'Connell" 
Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?


> And whats "new" about your complaints with my posts...
> Someone else was continuing to state that these cameras
> Do AE with PK/PKM, that's the only reason for my replies...

Um, they do AE with PK/PKM lenses. 
It's just not the type of AE you want it to be.
Consequently, you get into a semantics debate again and again.

William Robb


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Godfrey DiGiorgi

Hello David,

Add a filter to your email application to just put JCO's ranting in  
the trash automatically. I turn on that filter every time he starts  
in on this nonsense. As John Forbes said, it happens about every six  
months.

Others have answered the question, but here's the scoop:

To use pre-A series M/K-mount lenses, or any A series or later lens  
with the lens taken off the A setting, you

0) Set the custom function to "Using Aperture Ring - Permitted"

This tells the camera to operate the aperture mechanism in K mount  
mode when the camera mode selector is set to Manual. Since the camera  
does not have the mechanical aperture simulator, when you fit a lens  
as above you

1) set the mode selector to Manual
2) set the aperture you want to use with the lens' aperture ring
3) be sure the meter is activated (a half press on the shutter button  
activates the meter circuitry)
4) press the green button /AE-Lock button

The camera will stop down the lens briefly, take a reading, and set  
the appropriate shutter speed. This is not auto exposure, to my way  
of thinking, but semi-automatic exposure operation. It is simple and  
fluid in use, although I'm the first to say that I don't like mixing  
post-A and pre-A series lenses much because having to switch modes on  
the camera and modes of thought in use can lead to errors.

I am pretty sure we'll never see another Pentax with the mechanical  
aperture simulator, but I'd be happy to be wrong on that count. Don't  
hold your breath for it. ;-)

Godfrey

On Oct 8, 2006, at 9:44 PM, David Bliss wrote:

> I guess the question I REALLY meant to ask was: what, if anything,  
> does
> dpreview's assertion that you can "use lens aperture ring" mean,
> since it clearly doesn't mean what I think it means?  Even on A  
> lenses,
> I for one would much rather set the aperture using the lens  
> aperture ring,
> with a nice big custom-designed control, than use a stupid fiddly  
> knob on
> the camera body -- just like when doing manual focus I want to use the
> lens focus control and not twiddle a potentiometer like on one of  
> my old
> Sony cameras (and most non-pro video cameras).

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Digital Image Studio

On 09/10/06, Paul Stenquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> But you're a digital newbie. Give it time. It's no big deal. If you
> can shoot with a Barnack Leica or a Spotmatic, the green button
> "kludge" is no big deal.

Still doesn't work for me after three years and tens of thousands of
exposure, I just hate the inconsistency.

-- 
Rob Studdert
HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA
Tel +61-2-9554-4110
UTC(GMT)  +10 Hours
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/
Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread J. C. O'Connell

No, AE lock is an optional part IN ADDITON to true AE not a total
replacement for true AE.
jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Adam Maas
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 6:26 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

You want cntinuous AE.Locked AE and Continuous AE are both AE.

-Adam


J. C. O'Connell wrote:
> LOCKED AE isnt AE its LOCKED AE.
> I want AE in addition to LOCKED AE.
> Simple enough concept for you?
> jco
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of
> Adam Maas
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 5:56 PM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> 
> AE is AE.
> 
> There are different kinds, but the fact it isn't continuous doesn't
mean
> 
> it's not AE. It's just not the kind you want.
> 
> -Adam
> 
> 
> J. C. O'Connell wrote:
>> Yes, READ or delete. But don't argue
>> That LOCKED AE is AE when it isn't.
>> that's not semantics, that's major functional
>> differences. If it didn't matter, Pentax
>> Wouldn't have put the aperture cams on the lenses
>> in the first place back in '75. ( '71 if you
>> count the SMCT Pentax screw lenses).
>> jco
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of
>> William Robb
>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 5:31 PM
>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "J. C. O'Connell"
>> Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>>
>> No automatic exposure has traditional always been
>> Continous after setting one parameter ( in this
>> Case the aperture ). This is simply a 1 shot
>> Stop down manual exposure mode where the camera
>> Finds the correct shutter speed for you ONE TIME
>> And doesn't correct if the lighting or aperture
>> Changes like traditional AE always has. Its not
>> Really AE its metered manual or "AE with AE LOCK
>> Always ON" which is quite another story.
>>
>> Is there a point, other than a semantics debate, to all this?
>>
>> William Robb 
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread J. C. O'Connell

WRONG - "A" lenses are extremely difficult to find
Compared to K/M. Sure thare are SOME rare K/M,
But there are nearly all rare A and later on used
Market. I should state that the "K" series are
Somewhat rare being only made for 2 years on most
Models but the "M" series should stand for MASSIVE
Quantities made and sold. Dont forget that all pentax
Made was K and M for 9 years and those were their
Best years. By the time "A" came out Canon was
Kicking their ass in popularity.
JCO

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Adam Maas
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 6:31 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

Ok, try finding a K 85. Sure, there are a lot of K/M lenses out there, 
but the A and later lenses are at least as common as the non-50mm 
Pentax-branded K's today. A lot of K lenses (especially anything other 
than 28, 35, 50 or 135's) are quite rare, like the 85. Many of the A 
lenses (including the 50mm f2) were in production far longer than the 
equivalent K/M lenses.

-Adam


J. C. O'Connell wrote:
> Total Bullshit, Like I said in my earlier posts,
> Pentax was on top of the world in the K/M era
> In popularity. There are more K/M lenses in existance
> Than ALL THE OTHER SERIES COMBINED. Just try ebay.
> You have it ass backwards, finding lenses "A" or
> Later is much harder than K/M series, ebay or elsewhere.
> jco
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of
> Adam Maas
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 5:53 PM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
> 
> Nothing wrong with them, I'm fond of mine. But the monstrous amount of

> them floating around does not a market make. Other pre-A glass is 
> significantly more rare.
> 
> -Adam
> 
> 
> J. C. O'Connell wrote:
>> And whats wrong with 50mm F2's? :)
>> Seriuosly, pentax made a lot of 
>> Really nice K and M lenses and they
>> For the most part are holding up
>> Excellently due to the great build quality.
>> To not fully support these millions of
>> Excellent PENTAX Lenses is really shameful...
>> jco
>> -----Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of
>> Adam Maas
>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 4:55 PM
>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>
>> Of course, 50% of those lenses you refer to are 50mm f2's sitting in
a
> 
>> shoebox with a K1000 somewhere.
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>> J. C. O'Connell wrote:
>>> Oh Screw You. You dont have a clue if you think that legacy
>>> Lens support is only a minor issue. And like an
>>> Idiot it's NOT the age of the lenses it's WHAT
>>> The PK/PKM lenses are, which are superb MANUAL
>>> Focus lenses which are not even available new
>>> Anymore so there is great reason to support them.
>>> AGE IS IRRELAVANT. There are MORE PK/PKM lenses
>>> In existence than all other lens series combined so
>>> MOST Pentax BRAND lenses are not fully supported. Thats
>>> Not good by any standardsThis is a Pentax support
>>> Issue, not a compatability issue which really sucks
>>> IMHO. If yours differs, so be it, but you cannot
>>> Prove your points by calling me an idiot, it just
>>> Makes you look like an idiot in doing so..
>>> Jco
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
>> Of
>>> John Forbes
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 2:21 PM
>>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>> Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
>>>
>>> Don't apologise to JC O'Connell.
>>>
>>> He is a boring little nitwit who comes onto the list every six
months
>> or
>>> so to wind himself into a frenzy over the lack of full support for
>> very
>>> old lenses.
>>>
>>> After abusing anyone who disagrees with him (sample: "Gimme a
friggin
>>> break with your "you don?t own a pentax (sic) DSLR So (sic) you
don?t
>>> know  
>>> what youre (sic) talking about" B.S.").
>>>
>>> Eventually, after about a dozen posts, this one-issue idiot has an  
>>> apoplectic fit, and shuts up for another six months while he
> recovers.
>>> Then the cycle starts all over again.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread Tim Øsleby

Guys. You are hijacking the thread. Rather impolite towards a newcomer IMO.


Tim
Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread J. C. O'Connell

hehe

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Paul Stenquist
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 6:16 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?


On Oct 8, 2006, at 3:39 PM, J. C. O'Connell wrote:

>
> . Are you retarded or What?

Or what.

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-08 Thread J. C. O'Connell

Give it up will you? Locked exposure settings is manual
By any standard. If you have to push a button everytime to 
Get the correct exposure its not AUTOmatic. Your playing
The semantics game not me...
jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
William Robb
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 6:58 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?


- Original Message - 
From: "J. C. O'Connell" 
Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?


> And whats "new" about your complaints with my posts...
> Someone else was continuing to state that these cameras
> Do AE with PK/PKM, that's the only reason for my replies...

Um, they do AE with PK/PKM lenses. 
It's just not the type of AE you want it to be.
Consequently, you get into a semantics debate again and again.

William Robb


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

1 2 >

1 - 100 of 187 matches

Mail list logo