Re: single most influential, cont.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Joe Gracey writes: .One example I have always found particularly grating was the Dead's vocals, which are like fingernails on chalkboards to me, but which apparently don't bother their fans. I find Dylan's early stuff to be engaging, his later stuff to be almost painful, vocally... Harrumph. Shoulda known that. This is the guy who gets to hear Kimmie Rhodes sing in the shower every morning. g Joe X. I love singer's voices. Marcia Ball has one of the nicest speaking voices. In fact, I think if I were forced to admit what it was I actually do well, I would say record singer's voices, because I understand them. I sort of take aural showers in them. Recording The Willie was monumental for me because his voice goes to tape so spectacularly. I think that was one reason I loved Jimmy Day's steel so much- he played the steel like a voice, singing. -- Joe Gracey President-For-Life, Jackalope Records http://www.kimmierhodes.com
Re: single most influential, and Tillman, cont.
I think that was one reason I loved Jimmy Day's steel so much- he played the steel like a voice, singing. Joe Gracey Which reminds me--besides the blues vocal tradition influence on the way Floyd Tillman would sin it struck me listening to the Columbia recordings since yesterday that he did the opposite of what Joe just said about Jimmy Day: Tillman slides around notes singing like a steel player playing--and must have been influenced by that sound. (Sometimes it's even kind of Hawaiian!) Barry ..
Re: single most influential, cont.
I'm chiming in midstream, so I'm not really sure where this thread has been or eventually went, but Dylan has his "own thing" and for that alone he should be revered. I mean Celine Dion has a great voice, but she still sucks. Occassionally, I forget that Dylan actually *did* have a genuinely good voice - if you listen to the "Royal Albert Hall" disc, you might be surprised. -John ___ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
Re: single most influential, cont.
Joe Gracey writes: .One example I have always found particularly grating was the Dead's vocals, which are like fingernails on chalkboards to me, but which apparently don't bother their fans. I find Dylan's early stuff to be engaging, his later stuff to be almost painful, vocally... Harrumph. Shoulda known that. This is the guy who gets to hear Kimmie Rhodes sing in the shower every morning. g Joe X. -- Joe Gracey President-For-Life, Jackalope Records http://www.kimmierhodes.com
Re: single most influential, cont.
Tom Ekeberg wrote: Carl W.: As a footnote to our discussion, see the new issue of the Atlantic, including an article arguing that Dylan changed pop music more than any other single figure, "including Sinatra, Elvis or the Beatles." Of course. He single handedly made it all right not to know how to sing, not to know how to play and still be a big star. Ah, ha! I laughed my ass off at this one. Ekeberg rises from the mists to denigrate His Bobness! My feeling on this observation is that Dylan is much like other stars who overcame vocal limitations, even used them to advantage. Offhand I am thinking of Ernest Tubb, who actually used his flat, weird vocals as a way to become famous. "Can't sing" means "can't sing as well as the typical good singer" but doesn't really hurt anybody in this context. Bill Anderson was another guy who "couldn't sing" but turned it into an asset by calling himself "Whispering Bill". One example I have always found particularly grating was the Dead's vocals, which are like fingernails on chalkboards to me, but which apparently don't bother their fans. I find Dylan's early stuff to be engaging, his later stuff to be almost painful, vocally. It is true that he opened the door to a lot of terrible singing in the rock bizniss. I actually think he was a pretty good acoustic and rhythm electric guitar player, if that was in fact him on the early records. I like the jangly out-of-tune strat he plays on Hiway 61, etc. Its cool. -- Joe Gracey President-For-Life, Jackalope Records http://www.kimmierhodes.com
Re: single most influential, cont.
On Sat, 24 Apr 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: really isn't all that good. And while we're goin' down that roadEmmylou on lead these days isn't all that appealing, yet as backup/harmony is quite nice. Oh, that's open to a serious rebuttal, but we are talking about subjective opinions. ANDI sure respect your right to post yours even though I'm tearing my fingernails out not to disagree. g Flat out Worst Singer I can't stand so much it spoils any hope of enjoying the music - Robert Smith of The Cure Flat Out Worst Singer that is horrible but does not spoil the music in any way, shape, or form - Neil Young NP: Jimmy Murphy - Electricity Best, Jerry
RE: single most influential, cont.
His Royness: Tom Ek. wrote: Of course. He single handedly made it all right not to know how to sing, not to know how to play Bob knew how to sing and knew how to play. Still does. Everything is true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in some sense, true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, and true and false and meaningless in some sense. Seeing the sense in which Bob Dylan don't know how to sing shouldn't be too hard. Seeing the sense in which Bob Dylan don't know how to play harmonica should be a no brainer. Tom Ekeberg Oslo, Norway http://home.sol.no/~tekeberg/
RE: single most influential, cont.
Tomness writes: Seeing the sense in which Bob Dylan don't know how to sing shouldn't be too hard. Seeing the sense in which Bob Dylan don't know how to play harmonica should be a no brainer. Ah, if I only had a brainIn what sense does Bob not know how to sing? He doesn't know how to sing on key? (He does.) Doesn't know how to deliver a melody? (He does.) He doesn't know how to use his voice as an emotional vehicle? (He does.) I'm not even gonna touch the harmonica issue, until I get some sense out of what Tom is talking about. Roy Kasten [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: single most influential, cont.
Tom Ekeberg wrote: Seeing the sense in which Bob Dylan don't know how to sing shouldn't be too hard. This is what I actually disagree with. Not being able to sing very well and not knowing how to sing are two different things. I think Dylan made amazingly effective use of a very indifferent vocal apparatus, thus I think that he knows very well how to sing, he just doesn't have the larynx to pull it off very well. In fact, in my experience producing and engineering, the most interesting performers are not the ones with the best pipes. They are usually the ones with an odd voice that they were forced to deal with in order to be effective. I would cite Townes, Willie, and Waylon as three artists I have recorded who developed strategies for working around whatever deficiencies they may have had, and in the process became very interesting to the ear, much moreso than a so-called "good" singer. Most "good" singers end up doing commercials or being backup chorus singers because they are not very interesting to listen to. The exceptions to this would be people like KD lang whose pipes are so extraordinary (coupled with powerful charisma) that they are mesmerizing. (We saw her at the Roy Orbison Tribute thing out in LA and she stunned me with her power over the audience. Seeing her live made me a believer.) Another example of the previous point would be Elvis. Our daughter has been having an Elvis sleepover party (she's 14 and she heard "Love Me Tender on the radio and said "Mama, Elvis is HOT!"), playing his movies continously for the past two days. I noticed after listening to him sing for a few hours that he had a tendency to go sharp all the time. Not violently so, just a shade sharp. I also noticed that he didn't have the strongest voice in the world. However, he figured out strategies for evading those problems and became a great singer. -- Joe Gracey President-For-Life, Jackalope Records http://www.kimmierhodes.com
Re: single most influential, cont.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Flat Out Worst Singer that is horrible but does not spoil the music in any way, shape, or form - Neil Young = Nicely put! best, Kate
Re: single most influential, cont.
At 15:26 24.04.99 -0500, you wrote: Tom Ekeberg wrote: Seeing the sense in which Bob Dylan don't know how to sing shouldn't be too hard. This is what I actually disagree with. Not being able to sing very well and not knowing how to sing are two different things. Okay. That's what I meant. I shouldn't have used the word "know". And I would like to point out that I didn't say whether not knowing how to/being able to sing was a good or a bad thing. I think Dylan made amazingly effective use of a very indifferent vocal apparatus, thus I think that he knows very well how to sing, he just doesn't have the larynx to pull it off very well. Like I said, true in some sense, false in some sense. Obviously Dylan knows what he's doing when he's singing. I agree with the examples Joe used in the rest of his post too. I would have to think closer about the Elvis part though. I sometimes feel that he doesn't sing as well as an Elvis should, but I have not tried to analyze what it is that gives me this feeling. But I still say that Dylan doesn't know how to play harmonica (in some sense). I hope this answers Roy's question too. Tom Ekeberg Oslo, Norway http://home.sol.no/~tekeberg/
Re: single most influential, cont.
In a message dated 4/24/99 3:25:09 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I also noticed that he didn't have the strongest voice in the world. However, he figured out strategies for evading those problems and became a great singer. I would beg to differ as the King got into the later part of his career. There is a clip in "This Is Elvis" (the original version, as it was edited from the "expanded" video release by EPE because it was such a negaive visual of E) where what I believe was his last televised concert he sang "Unchained Melody" accompanying himself on the piano. It is one of the most emotional and powerful musical moments I have ever seen. He looks like hell, but that voice is strong and perfect. It makes me cry. Slim
Re: single most influential, cont.
At 05:30 PM 4/24/99 EDT, you wrote: where what I believe was his last televised concert he sang "Unchained Melody" accompanying himself on the piano. It is one of the most emotional and powerful musical moments I have ever seen. He looks like hell, but that voice is strong and perfect. It makes me cry. This amazing clip is on one of the Great Performances videos as well (and the arrangment/interpretation is largely borrowed, I'd say, from Charlie Rich's Sun era version of the song). It makes me cry too. But it makes me cry precisely because his voice CAN'T do it anymore, which isn't so suprising since he's like only a few weeks away from being dead. He can't hit the high notes at all, or the low ones either. It's a pretty pathetic performance, but it's also painfully poignant for the sheer gesture of the attempt, or maybe because of his glassy-eyed obliviousness to his lack of chops. At any rate, Unchained Melody is a very hard song to sing even for someone in their prime, but Elvis doesn't try to sing it differently to account for his new vocal weaknesses; he just plows through. So I agree with you that's it's among the most emotional and powerful of musical moments. But it's incredibly hard for me to watch, especially since I know what he's lost, and what's coming. --david cantwell
Re: single most influential, cont.
In a message dated 4/24/99 4:50:39 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But it makes me cry precisely because his voice CAN'T do it anymore, which isn't so suprising since he's like only a few weeks away from being dead. He can't hit the high notes at all, or the low ones either. It's a pretty pathetic performance, but it's also painfully poignant for the sheer gesture of the attempt, or maybe because of his glassy-eyed obliviousness to his lack of chops. Are you sure we saw the same clip, or is it just not your cup of tea? g Yeah, he looks like hell and the strain is intense, but my God, what a performance. I stand by my perceptions. Slim
Re: single most influential, cont.
I'm sort of surprised by Joe's reference to Willie and Waylon as examples of singers with deficient voices. Townes I'll buy, but to my ears, both Waylon and Willie have great instruments. Curiously, though, of the three only Townes can deliver a song or a phrase right to the center of me and move me. Maybe because I have to look past the limitations to the raw emotion behind the song while the others can suspend me somewhere closer to the surface? I've been spending a lot of time lately with my Tom Waits collection, anticipating "Mule Variations" release this week. Talk about limited tools put to best use! Would Tom with the same writing talent be as captivating if he had a voice like Sinatra, or is it the curious charm of his gruff vocals that make him so special? Joe says: In fact, in my experience producing and engineering, the most interesting performers are not the ones with the best pipes. They are usually the ones with an odd voice that they were forced to deal with in order to be effective. I would cite Townes, Willie, and Waylon as three artists I have recorded who developed strategies for working around whatever deficiencies they may have had, and in the process became very interesting to the ear, much moreso than a so-called "good" singer. Most "good" singers end up doing commercials or being backup chorus singers because they are not very interesting to listen to.
Re: single most influential, cont.
John Kinnamon wrote: I'm sort of surprised by Joe's reference to Willie and Waylon as examples of singers with deficient voices. Townes I'll buy, but to my ears, both Waylon and Willie have great instruments. Willie doesn't have a "big" voice, although it can be loud if he wants to. he's a softspoken guy, and his singing voice is relatively subdued also. Waylon comes very close to having a "great voice" but he's so much himself that you could never mistake him for anybody else, no matter how hard he tried, and I guess what I was trying to convey was that none of these guys could ever sing anonymously like a typical "good singer" can. -- Joe Gracey President-For-Life, Jackalope Records http://www.kimmierhodes.com
Re: single most influential, cont.
As a footnote to our discussion, see the new issue of the Atlantic, including an article arguing that Dylan changed pop music more than any other single figure, "including Sinatra, Elvis or the Beatles." (No mention of Der Bingle.) Read and discuss (I haven't, yet). Carl W.
Re: single most influential, cont.
Carl W.: As a footnote to our discussion, see the new issue of the Atlantic, including an article arguing that Dylan changed pop music more than any other single figure, "including Sinatra, Elvis or the Beatles." Of course. He single handedly made it all right not to know how to sing, not to know how to play and still be a big star. Tom Ekeberg Oslo, Norway http://home.sol.no/~tekeberg/
Re: single most influential, cont.
At 09:36 PM 4/23/99 +0200, Tom wrote: Of course. He single handedly made it all right not to know how to sing, not to know how to play and still be a big star. I have no comment. Just wanted to say how great it was to see a Tom Ekeberg post! --david cantwell
Re: Single Most Influential
At 07:48 PM 4/21/99 -0400, Carl wrote: Not to displace anything in David's definitive Top 4 - (sideline: except that I'm not quite convinced we've covered soul properly in the person of James Brown, whose influence vocally and rhythmically is definitive for funk-disco-rap but not so much in the more slow-grooving melody-centred part of pop-soul-RB Good call, Carl. Brother Ray is huge this century and he deserves to be there, and very high too. But as for Brown and pop-soul RB, I'd suggest a replaying of the Startime box set, disc one, especially "Try Me," "I Know It's True," Baby, You're Right," "Lost Someone," "It's A Man's World," and especially, especially "Prisoner Of Love," which is as great a bit of pop-soul-RB as Charles ever did. Hell, as anyone ever did. - but on Tera's behalf I'd reluctantly say that if we look at the current state of pop music, where female singer-songwriters are about the only growing concern in the rock column of the equation, it's not easy to avoid pegging Joni Mitchell fairly high up. Well, bristling, I say: HOW fairly high up are you talking? g Joni Mitchell was the pop-music equivalent of Jackie Robinson, breaking the bar as the first major female artist to visibly call the shots on her own career, on her own songs and in her own distinctly female (but not feminized) voice Didn't Aretha already do this, at least during the post-Columbia, classic Atlantic period? (Yes, you might name Dolly or Loretta or Aretha or Billie Holiday or Ella or Tina Turner, but I don't think any of them visibly held control over their personae and music in the same way.) I've already named, as has Tera, Aretha, Mahalia, and Bessie, and I don't think the rest of your list quite makes it to the Top Ten or Fifteen level (well, MAYBE Ella..) that we've been discussing. BUT, Madonna (who you skip over so quickly)... what I was thinking? She HAS to be incredibly high on a list of most influentials, right? The whole current women's movement can be traced back to her, I'd say, and far more directly--both in terms of music and in terms of business--than it could to Joni. She's also been huge, for better or worse, in the way image rules today, as well as in the way street moves are immediately co-opted for commercial gain and (sometimes) artistic success. The irony is that Mitchell's historical significance far outstrips her musical quality - much of the latter is for the worse, in that she, er, overlegitimized confessional songwriting Agreed as to her quality. And, as to her singificance, would her contemporary, Sweet Baby James, have played a more visible, more broad-based role in spreading this kind of music to the wide world (both in confessional songwriting and in OVERLY confessional songwriting)? Plus, James apparently has got that whole Garth thing to answer for... --david cantwell
RE: Single Most Influential
I've just finished reading John Cale's autobiography, What's Welsh For Zen. Here's what he says: "I found the resurgence of interest in the Velvet Underground, and in particular an attempt to see their influence everywhere, fatuous. I don't think rock and roll is based on influence. The notion of the father figure handing down the baton is a classical music thing. In rock and roll, people sound similar, but they don't influence anyone. Dylan didn't influence anyone. He created a cult of personality. He's an individual entity and he bagged for himself a huge parabola within the expression of the form we're talking about. One of rock and roll's distinct, precious qualities is that individuality counts for more than almost anything." I reckon the evidence is against him much of the time, but it's a view. Richard -Original Message- From: David Cantwell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 5:53 PM To: passenger side Subject: Re: Single Most Influential At 01:49 AM 4/21/99 -0400, Tera wrote: Yes, I know what you mean - however...Crosby was influenced enough by Jolson to forego his previously scheduled future to pursue a career in music. After Crosby began singing he took other influences into account and thus established his own style. I'd say Jolson was the greatest influence for Crosby as Jolson was responsible for kick-starting a career which may not have been otherwise. Personally, I'd call this more inspiration than influence. Maybe i'm unusual (watch it, now Tera!) but when I talk about musical influences I tend to think not only the person or thing that inspired or motivated an artist to create art in the first place but primarily the persons or things that actually influenced or helped shape the KIND of art that was made. In Crosby's case, that figure was largely Armstrong. To use a far less significant example to illustrate this distinction, the writer who first got me thinking that, hey, I want to be a writer too was, no snickering, J.R.R. Tolkien. It would be a lie, however, if I said he had been an actual influence on the kind of writing i do or the way i do it. Well, it seems to me that Jolson was responsible for changing the way in which music was presented. as well as a whole lot else, as Tera articulated quite well. Like I say, he was hugely important. But my only point is that the things Jolsen did, while significant, tended to end with him. Crosby came along, basically refuted the Jolsen model--Crosby's singing and acting is diametrically opposed to Jolsen's in nearly every way--and helped create (no exageration) the world and musical style we tend to think of as being "Twentieth Century"--that is, the world we live in and the musical styles we still use. Jolsen, by contrast, was merely the high point of a world we long ago left behind. Tera (and you still skirted around the issue of great female influentials...harummph! Can I hear a Ma Rainey or a Bessie Smith?) You can hear a Bessie Smith, and I'll repeat Mahalia Jackson, and add Aretha Franklin. All three would be "top ten most influential" candidates. But I'm standing pat with my Satchmo/King then JB/Bing Top 4. --david cantwell
Re: Single Most Influential
At 01:49 AM 4/21/99 -0400, Tera wrote: Yes, I know what you mean - however...Crosby was influenced enough by Jolson to forego his previously scheduled future to pursue a career in music. After Crosby began singing he took other influences into account and thus established his own style. I'd say Jolson was the greatest influence for Crosby as Jolson was responsible for kick-starting a career which may not have been otherwise. Personally, I'd call this more inspiration than influence. Maybe i'm unusual (watch it, now Tera!) but when I talk about musical influences I tend to think not only the person or thing that inspired or motivated an artist to create art in the first place but primarily the persons or things that actually influenced or helped shape the KIND of art that was made. In Crosby's case, that figure was largely Armstrong. To use a far less significant example to illustrate this distinction, the writer who first got me thinking that, hey, I want to be a writer too was, no snickering, J.R.R. Tolkien. It would be a lie, however, if I said he had been an actual influence on the kind of writing i do or the way i do it. Well, it seems to me that Jolson was responsible for changing the way in which music was presented. as well as a whole lot else, as Tera articulated quite well. Like I say, he was hugely important. But my only point is that the things Jolsen did, while significant, tended to end with him. Crosby came along, basically refuted the Jolsen model--Crosby's singing and acting is diametrically opposed to Jolsen's in nearly every way--and helped create (no exageration) the world and musical style we tend to think of as being "Twentieth Century"--that is, the world we live in and the musical styles we still use. Jolsen, by contrast, was merely the high point of a world we long ago left behind. Tera (and you still skirted around the issue of great female influentials...harummph! Can I hear a Ma Rainey or a Bessie Smith?) You can hear a Bessie Smith, and I'll repeat Mahalia Jackson, and add Aretha Franklin. All three would be "top ten most influential" candidates. But I'm standing pat with my Satchmo/King then JB/Bing Top 4. --david cantwell
Re: Single Most Influential
Not to displace anything in David's definitive Top 4 - (sideline: except that I'm not quite convinced we've covered soul properly in the person of James Brown, whose influence vocally and rhythmically is definitive for funk-disco-rap but not so much in the more slow-grooving melody-centred part of pop-soul-RB - I think maybe I'd tie Brown with Ray Charles for 4th). - but on Tera's behalf I'd reluctantly say that if we look at the current state of pop music, where female singer-songwriters are about the only growing concern in the rock column of the equation, it's not easy to avoid pegging Joni Mitchell fairly high up. You have to open up your idea of "influential" here: "Blue" would be acknowledged by astonishing numbers of performers as a seminal record (likely more than any single Beatles or Dylan album). If you're bristling, let me put it this way: Joni Mitchell was the pop-music equivalent of Jackie Robinson, breaking the bar as the first major female artist to visibly call the shots on her own career, on her own songs and in her own distinctly female (but not feminized) voice - Madonna's godmother, and also that of Sarah and Sheryl and Alanis and Lucinda and Rickie Lee Jones and Lauryn Hill. Janis Joplin and Laura Nyro were important in this sense, too, but Mitchell's influence was cemented by the fact that she survived it. (Yes, you might name Dolly or Loretta or Aretha or Billie Holiday or Ella or Tina Turner, but I don't think any of them visibly held control over their personae and music in the same way.) The irony is that Mitchell's historical significance far outstrips her musical quality - much of the latter is for the worse, in that she, er, overlegitimized confessional songwriting (she is to song what Sylvia Plath and Robert Lowell were to poetry) - but if we assume that the revolution in gender roles will go down as one of the 20th century's most important developments, that historical place looms pretty large (if depressingly recent). carl w.
Re: Single Most Influential
All this talk of Bing Crosby has piqued my interest. Other than some pretty corny movies, I can't say I've ever really given him a chance. So today I wandered over to the easy listening section of the local CD store to browse and see what I could find. Not much. Lots of Armstrong, tons of Sinatra, but only a couple of lonely Crosby disks. He may have been influential, but he must not seel much these days. Can someone repost or send me the Bing recommendations that were posted a couple days ago?
Re: Single Most Influential--Bob Marley (duh)
I'm curious why we've collectively overlooked the influence of Bob Marley in our discussion so far. Is it because he's not from the United States? Is it because we find reggae to be a marginal music that has had little impact in American culture? Or is it because we're sick of hearing Legend blasting from SUVs owned by upper middle class trust-funders? Well, that would seem to be short-sighted at best, ignorant and ethnocentric at worst. I think Bob Marley's contributions to popular music in the second half of this century might be substantial enough to place him near the top. Certainly Bob Dylan, the Beatles, and James Brown have each had a profound impact on Western culture, and maybe one or all of these artists deserves to be higher than Marley. But I'm not so sure that's as clear cut as we think. And that's just taking into account music. If we add definitive political contributions into the mix, none of them outshine Marley. Sure, Dylan had some fantastic finger-pointers, and songs like JB's "Say it Loud" were defiant statements of racial pride, but didn't Marley do both throughout his entire career? At least during his association with Island Records, his records consistently addressed--directly--political concerns of not just Jamaicans, but black people all over the world. And unlike Dylan, when Marley spoke on behalf of the abject poor and dispossessed, it was because he had first-hand knowledge of those people. He was those people. Don't forget either that Marley also influenced the outcome of the 1976 Jamaican presidential election (and not in some milquetoast Springsteen fashion). I wouldn't necessarily say that Bob Marley should be numero uno, but that we've neglected his impact thus far seems to indicate that, I for one, have been far too US-centric. Lance . . . PS--If someone can better defend the man's contributions than my half-ass attempt, please do so.
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
Is this your list or is it culled from some specific source? Care to 'splain yerself?* Thanks loads for mentioning Mahalia Jackson - now what about Ma Rainey, Bessie Smith, Billie Holliday, Ella Fitzgerald? What about The Carters? Why no Frank Sinatra? Influences: Bessie Smith - Ma Rainey Janis Joplin - Bessie Smith, Ma Rainey Aretha Franklin - Mahalia Jackson, Bessie Smith Ruth Brown - Ma Rainey, Bessie Smith Diana Ross - Billie Holliday, Ella Fitzgerald The Carter's along with Jimmie Rodgers - didn't just about every country artist back in the forties and fifties cite the afore-mentioned as influences? Frank Sinatra - put the romantic leading man into big-band swing melodies; the bobby-soxers - not since Rudolph Valentino did the young girls swoon a prequel to Elvis and Beatle-mania; Anyway, Armstrong IS one of the greats, but I'd rank Ellington higher. Do not forget the ladies, m'dear... Tera *BTW - you are not allowed to take the popular music bill of rights Billie Holliday amendment clause, "Don't Explain". -Original Message- From: David Cantwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: passenger side [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, April 19, 1999 4:33 PM Subject: Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician The most influential pop musicians of the 20th century are, in order: 1) Louis Armstrong 2) Elvis Presley 3) James Brown 4) Bing Crosby Armstrong and Crosby loom over the first half of the century the way Elvis and JB do the second. Who's #5? Mahalia? Ellington? The Beatles or Dylan? Hank? I don't know, but those first four, man, no one can touch them. --david cantwell
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
Armstrong gets my # 1 vote, btw, not just as a cornetist/trumpeter but as a singer whose sense of rhythm and phrasing pretty much invented (along with Bing's additions) the way we sing in the 20th century. --david cantwell Crosby has said that his greatest musical influence was Al Jolsen. Should we be talking about Crosby here or should we be giving a nod to Al Jolsen as one of the single most influential? No matter where you look to the greatest, there's always someone who came before. Whoever it was who talked about Buddy Bolden - yes, Armstrong borrowed a lot from Buddy. Should Bolden be the influence, I wonder? "King" of the cornet -innovative, expressive and a definite forerunner of what was to be known as "jazz". The original "funky butt". - ahem and amen. Tera
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
David Cantwell wrote: The most influential pop musicians of the 20th century are, in order: 1) Louis Armstrong 2) Elvis Presley 3) James Brown 4) Bing Crosby Armstrong and Crosby loom over the first half of the century the way Elvis and JB do the second. Who's #5? Mahalia? Ellington? The Beatles or Dylan? Hank? I don't know, but those first four, man, no one can touch them. --david cantwell I would tend to agree with this if you stick with the word "influential" and don't muck up the argument with other criteria. The 20th Century is too big of a tent to stick Dylan up there at the top of the list, methinks. -- Joe Gracey President-For-Life, Jackalope Records http://www.kimmierhodes.com
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, in order to reel in this madness, let's focus on rock, instead of pop. Who then? Elvis, Dylan or Cash or... ? I still stand by Dylan over Cash easily, but there's a good argument to be made that Elvis wins over Dylan. After all, he did define the sound, and he gets props for being maybe the first punk rocker by virture of swiveling his hips and all. Yeah, it seems to me that Dylan falls into the area "shaded" by Elvis' influence. To me Cash had little or nothing to do with rock music, either as co-founder or anything else. He was an outlaw, but always within the context of country. He had pop hits, but they were still overtly country records. (Sam Phillips (the Sun owner/producer of Elvis) always maintains that had it not been for his car wreck on the way to his Ed Sullivan appearance, Carl Perkins would have been the rock roll idol king Elvis became.) -- Joe Gracey President-For-Life, Jackalope Records http://www.kimmierhodes.com
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
Carl Abraham Zimring wrote: I'm sticking with Bing, but I'm a little surprised that none of the rock advocates have mentioned Chuck Berry. Carl Z. If you say Chuck Berry, you have to go one step back and say T-bone Walker, who spawned not only CB but all of them guitar heroes like BB King and Albert and Freddie. -- Joe Gracey President-For-Life, Jackalope Records http://www.kimmierhodes.com
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
At 03:50 AM 4/20/99 -0400, always pushing me to have to think g, Tera wrote: Crosby has said that his greatest musical influence was Al Jolsen. Should we be talking about Crosby here or should we be giving a nod to Al Jolsen as one of the single most influential? There's no doubt that Crosby idolized Jolsen. EVERYONE idolized him, but I'm not so sure he was that big a musical influence on Crosby. Certainly Jolsen's charisma as a performer was an inspiration, but as for the way he actually sang, Crosby was far more influenced by Armstrong, and he often said so. This is also the distinction made, in fact, by both Will Freidwald (in the indispensable Jazz Singing: America's Greatest Voices From Bessie Smith to Bebop and Beyond) and by Crosby friend and biographer Ken Barnes (in the out of print The Crosby Years). I have read where Crosby said that he wanted to become a singer, in large part, because of Jolsen but I've also read him saying that he stopped trying to sing like Jolsen very early on, as in while he was still in his pre-solo-career group, the Rhythm Boys! Jolsen is undoubtedly influential, though--he'd have to be in the top 20 or 20 or so somewhere. Still, there's something about his work that doesn't translate well to our times--am I speaking out of turn here? I don't think so--something stagey and overdone and unsubtle and rhythmically dense, etc, etc. etc. to our modern tastes. It's as if he's speaking a different language, practically. Which is just another way of saying, I guess, that his specific musical influence didn't much carry over throughout the rest of the century. No matter where you look to the greatest, there's always someone who came before. Whoever it was who talked about Buddy Bolden - yes, Armstrong borrowed a lot from Buddy. Should Bolden be the influence, I wonder? As I've said you could trace influences back forever, which would make the most inlfuential artist ever the first artist ever, the one who picked up a rock and banged it against another rock for the sheer pleasure of the sound or whatever. But that's not very revealing (and I know it's not what Tera said..). It's also inacurate, I think, since it means that predecessors are always more influential, by definition. Little Willie John is more influential than James Brown? Jake Hess is more influential than Elvis? Miss Ross is more influential than Michael Jackson? Bolden, and King Oliver too, were certainly big influences on Louis but how many people in future years cited Oliver or Bolden as influences? And how many named Armstrong? --david cantwell
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
Crosby has said that his greatest musical influence was Al Jolsen. Should we be talking about Crosby here or should we be giving a nod to Al Jolsen as one of the single most influential? Tera "There's only been four of us: Al Jolson, Jimmie Rodgers, Hank Williams, and Jerry Lee Lewis. That's your only four fuckin' stylists that ever lived. We could write, sing, yodel, dance, fuck--makes no damn difference. The rest of these idiots is either ridin' a fuckin' horse, pickin' a guitar, or shootin' somebody in some stupid damn movie." --Jerry Lee Lewis Lance . . .
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
lance davis wrote: Or, you could say Louis Jordan, who may qualify as the 20th Century's most influential performer that most people tend to forget. His impact in the black community was especially remarkable, and the list of performers who consider him a PRIMARY influence include: Ray Charles, Chuck Berry, BB King, James Brown, and Nat Cole. I believe he had 17 number one hits between 1947 and the birth of rock 'n' roll, and it was his misfortune to be black at a time when blacks were rarely able to translate their influence into dollars and cents. Louis Jordan is THE link between the swing music of the '30's and the rock 'n' roll of the '50's. Was it jazz? Was it RB? Was it really just rock 'n' roll? Whatever you wanna call it, his jumpin music has stood the test of time even if his name hasn't. Amen, Lance. And Louis Jordan's not forgotten in these parts, at least not when the best, most consistent local public radio show for a number of years, "The Saturday Night Fish Fry", begins every show with that song. (On both Friday and Saturday nights) Still, I think you've managed to merge two long threads into "the single most criminally underrecognized influential 20th century pop musician." Good job! g b.s. n.p. Love Nut BALTIMUCHO!
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
As great as some of those nominees are, I would have to pick Elvis as the most influential. When Sinatra died a few months back, a colleague of mine tried to suggest he was the most influential singer of the century, and he was outraged I would even suggest Presley was greater. But to me, Elvis hasn't just influenced music. He has had such an impact on every aspect of culture, including movies and fashion and, really, the sexual liberation that flew in the face of the restrained 1950s (for a hilarious look at how subversive Presley was, check out www.thesmokinggun.com. They've got a declassified FBI letter from an informant about how Presley's 1950s stage show threatened the entire USA. It's easy to forget, but important to be reminded that people really took this stuff seriously). A few years back, I interviewed Greil Marcus and we were talking about the very earliest recordings of Presley (That's When Your Heartache Begins, in particular) which had recently surfaced on the first volume of the RCA box sets. He said that when you listen to that performance, it isn't just a great song, it is the sound of Elvis Presley INVENTING cool. And if he doesn't get credit for anything else, at least you've got to give him that: For a couple of generations, Elvis Presley invented cool. Paul Cantin np: Nashville West-Nashville West
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
David said (edited): There's no doubt that Crosby idolized Jolsen. EVERYONE idolized him, but I'm not so sure he was that big a musical influence on Crosby. Certainly Jolsen's charisma as a performer was an inspiration, but as for the way he actually sang, Crosby was far more influenced by Armstrong, and he often said so. Yes, I know what you mean - however...Crosby was influenced enough by Jolson to forego his previously scheduled future to pursue a career in music. After Crosby began singing he took other influences into account and thus established his own style. I'd say Jolson was the greatest influence for Crosby as Jolson was responsible for kick-starting a career which may not have been otherwise. David said: Jolsen is undoubtedly influential, though--he'd have to be in the top 20 or 20 or so somewhere. Still, there's something about his work that doesn't translate well to our times--am I speaking out of turn here? I don't think so--something stagey and overdone and unsubtle and rhythmically dense, etc, etc. etc. to our modern tastes. It's as if he's speaking a different language, practically. Which is just another way of saying, I guess, that his specific musical influence didn't much carry over throughout the rest of the century. Well, it seems to me that Jolson was responsible for changing the way in which music was presented. Music became drama, theatre and focused in on the performer instead of just the song. Remember, when Jolson started doing minstrel shows, most every song was just available in sheet music form and sold accordingly. It was Jolson who sold the songs mostly by word of mouth (no pun intended) via newspaper reporters and from his long stint on Broadway. Jolson incorporated every measure of his being onstage, from eye and hand movements to dancing, melodramatic posing and even his exaggerated vocal style. At that time, there weren't any recording second-takes or overdubbs, so each performance he gave had to be "on the money". If you think about how many of "his" songs became part of Americana, it staggers the imagination - "Swanee", "You Made Me Love You", "California Here I Come", "Steppin' Out", "I'm Sitting On Top Of The World", "April Showers", "Rock-A-Bye Your Baby (With A Dixie Melody)", "When The Red, Red Robin Comes Bob, Bob Bobbin' Along" and the ubiquitous "Toot, Toot Tootsie", to name a few. How many times have these songs been featured in movies and/or recorded by other artists? Also, one could argue Jolson's influence not only on the lavish Busby Berkely movie musicals of the thirties but also to his influence on Broadway musicals and even so some degree "performance as art" influence upon the glam/rock and punk/rock era. Think camp, drama, theatre, dancing...thought I'd leave you with that to chew on g Tera (and you still skirted around the issue of great female influentials...harummph! Can I hear a Ma Rainey or a Bessie Smith?) P.S. - can't respond to your last paragraph right now (below), I ran out of gas down the road apiece, my battery went dead and the cable won't reach...(not intending to rip off Ricki Lee or anything g) - ANOTHER viable female artist - hint. As I've said you could trace influences back forever, which would make the most inlfuential artist ever the first artist ever, the one who picked up a rock and banged it against another rock for the sheer pleasure of the sound or whatever. But that's not very revealing (and I know it's not what Tera said..). It's also inacurate, I think, since it means that predecessors are always more influential, by definition. Little Willie John is more influential than James Brown? Jake Hess is more influential than Elvis? Miss Ross is more influential than Michael Jackson? Bolden, and King Oliver too, were certainly big influences on Louis but how many people in future years cited Oliver or Bolden as influences? And how many named Armstrong? --david cantwell
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
Excerpts from internet.listserv.postcard2: 19-Apr-99 Re: Single Most Influential.. by "Terry A. Smith"@seorf.O The Beatles, appears to have been skipped over, perhaps, dare I speculate, because it's such an obvious choice? If we're talking about rock, in my subjective, fallible, hazy-assed estimation, the Beatles have no rival. -- At the risk of rehashing an argument I made a year ago, the Beatles' influence on modern recording techniques in a variety of genres cannot be overestimated. Which is not to say they are the century's most influential artist, but they're in the picture. Carl Z.
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
get to you, you might not be long for this list. This is just a typical day in the life of P2. And just wait til we rehash one of those recipe threads or my particular favorite: the greatest pitcher ever, which, of course, would Sandy Koufax, the Bob Dylan of his profession. Neal Weiss Hmmm, and let me guess who's the best base-stealer ever. Maury Wills, c'mon down. In all this palaver over greatest influences, etc., I guess I confess surprise that what, to me, is an obvious choice for at least the top five, The Beatles, appears to have been skipped over, perhaps, dare I speculate, because it's such an obvious choice? If we're talking about rock, in my subjective, fallible, hazy-assed estimation, the Beatles have no rival. -- Terry Smith ps my local library just got stocked up on a bunch of classic pop and soul, 50s era, plus a copy of Johnny Cash, Live at Folsom and San Quentin. Jackie Wilson, Lloyd Price, Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers, all sorts of stuff to explore.
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
Dylan, Cash, Crosby, Elvis, whatever. Why don't we all just admit that without the Ramones our lives would have no meaning? Lance . . .
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
Lance, I'd say everything you wrote about Parker is dead on (I'd better--I'm from KC where we just dedicated a huge Easter Island looking bust of the Bird), but only IF we limit the discussion to jazz. If we look to the whole of 20th century pop, however, which is what I was doing, then Armstrong is the man. Satchmo was the foundation not just of modern jazz, as you say, but of modern popular music. And the edifice? I guess that'd have to be Elvis. --david cantwell At 05:38 PM 4/19/99 -0500, you wrote: It's hard to argue AGAINST Armstrong, but I think Charlie Parker put Louis' massive instrumental contributions into something of a musical perspective. Not only was Bird--like Hendrix later on--the most imaginative and "electric" player of his era, but unlike Armstrong, there has never been a time since when his ideas have fallen out of favor. Bird's reconception and reorganization of Armstrong's formal solo made even Louis' monumental earlier efforts seem a bit dated (which was admittedly unfair). Bird made complex harmonic and melodic ideas swing, and he made oddly accented and angular rhythmic reinventions seem natural. Plus, and most importantly I think, there was very rarely a sense that even his most "out there" ideas weren't still the blues. Once Bird appeared on the scene, musicians emulated his playing and not, directly anyway, Armstrong's. (Unfortunately, too many players also emulated his junkie lifestyle for ANY insight into his muse). Charlie Mingus once said something to the effect that if horn-playing was gunslinging there'd be a whole lot of dead copycats. The same, of course, could be said about Armstrong, which is why it's impossible to argue AGAINST him. However, the influence of Bird on even contemporary players is still huge compared to Armstrong (which is, once again, unfair to Satch). If Armstrong was the foundation upon which modern jazz was built, Parker was the edifice itself. Personally, I don't think either man should be slighted at the other's expense, but the role of Bird from the early '40's onward is a tough chunk of history to look past.
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
In a message dated 4/19/99 3:52:06 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And just wait til we rehash one of those recipe threads or my particular favorite: the greatest pitcher ever, which, of course, would Sandy Koufax, the Bob Dylan of his profession. Greg Maddox. Where you been the last few years, LA? Slim - tommyhawk choppin'
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
As for the MOST influential, however, the way to look at it, seems to me, isn't to identify the influences upon an act (in the way Oliver paved the way for Armstrong) but to find out how far, and how broadly, into the future a person's influence reaches. In Oliver's case it's not much further than Louis, is it? In Louis' case, though, it's all the way through Miles and on up--and well beyond jazz into the entire culture. David Cantwell It's hard to argue AGAINST Armstrong, but I think Charlie Parker put Louis' massive instrumental contributions into something of a musical perspective. Not only was Bird--like Hendrix later on--the most imaginative and "electric" player of his era, but unlike Armstrong, there has never been a time since when his ideas have fallen out of favor. Bird's reconception and reorganization of Armstrong's formal solo made even Louis' monumental earlier efforts seem a bit dated (which was admittedly unfair). Bird made complex harmonic and melodic ideas swing, and he made oddly accented and angular rhythmic reinventions seem natural. Plus, and most importantly I think, there was very rarely a sense that even his most "out there" ideas weren't still the blues. Once Bird appeared on the scene, musicians emulated his playing and not, directly anyway, Armstrong's. (Unfortunately, too many players also emulated his junkie lifestyle for ANY insight into his muse). Charlie Mingus once said something to the effect that if horn-playing was gunslinging there'd be a whole lot of dead copycats. The same, of course, could be said about Armstrong, which is why it's impossible to argue AGAINST him. However, the influence of Bird on even contemporary players is still huge compared to Armstrong (which is, once again, unfair to Satch). If Armstrong was the foundation upon which modern jazz was built, Parker was the edifice itself. Personally, I don't think either man should be slighted at the other's expense, but the role of Bird from the early '40's onward is a tough chunk of history to look past. Lance . . .
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
In a message dated 4/19/99 2:50:51 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Agreed. David Crosby was really something else. He ain't shit compared to Norm. Nope. Wrong. Bill ruled the world before those dumb pudding commercials. Uhhh, wait... Slim
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
On Mon, 19 Apr 1999, David Cantwell wrote: Sure, you can trail after previous influnces forever, but I'd argue that's important intellectual work. As for the MOST influential, however, the way to look at it, seems to me, isn't to idenitfy the influences upon an act (in the way Oliver paved the way for Armstrong) but to find out how far, and how broadly, into the future a person's influence reaches. why choose Bing over Frank then?? Just wondering how your logic works . . . thanks. -jim
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
I'm sticking with Bing, but I'm a little surprised that none of the rock advocates have mentioned Chuck Berry. Carl Z.
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
Neal: Sandy Koufax, the Bob Dylan of his profession. Carl: Lefty (Stated in my best John McLaughlin voice) The answer is: Walter Johnson ~Greg ___ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
Excerpts from internet.listserv.postcard2: 19-Apr-99 Re: Single Most Influential.. by [EMAIL PROTECTED] And just wait til we rehash one of those recipe threads or my particular favorite: the greatest pitcher ever, which, of course, would Sandy Koufax, the Bob Dylan of his profession. Lefty Grove (the Bing Crosby of his profession), who may eventually be surpassed by Maddux. Carl Z.
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
Your comments mirror those that have come in since I sent you the message. I for one enjoy these things on a one on one basis, but back and forth over this list thing get a little annoying. The whole thing started because the argument was that Jahnny Cash was more influential that Dylan. Rediculous, I know, but that's what they were arguing about. Hey Jason, if the incessant nature of threads and absurd, pointless arguments get to you, you might not be long for this list. This is just a typical day in the life of P2. And just wait til we rehash one of those recipe threads or my particular favorite: the greatest pitcher ever, which, of course, would Sandy Koufax, the Bob Dylan of his profession. Neal Weiss
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
I guess I'm not quite as comfortable with cause and effect as many of you folks seem to be. Say, for example, I think Louis Armstrong was the single most influential 20th Century pop musician. Armstrong was heavily influenced himself by Buddy Bolden and King Oliver among many, many others. In fact, without Bolden and Oliver and 'the rest', you don't have Louis Armstrong as we know him. Bolden influences countless people, among them Louis Armstrong who influences countless people, among them Miles Davis who influences countless people, ad nauseum. As an intellectual pursuit I find this tiresome. As an emotional pursuit, I vote for Miles Davis and call it good. ~Greg ___ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
On Mon, 19 Apr 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: it's a great list, david, but i pick brown (as i did in an earlier post), if only because he all but birthed soul, funk, and hip hop--hell, you can probably throw disco in there as well. i know that by making such a claim i leave myself open to all kinds of nitpicking (sp?), but jb cut a mighty wide swath through his half of the century. He sure did, and while he definitely gave birth to funk, I think it's an overstatement to say he did the same for soul and hip hop. Clyde McPhatter was most likely the original soul man (goin' all the way back to 1950 when he cut "Do Something For Me" with the Dominoes), and Ray Charles was the music's most influential early force. His earliest gospel-influenced recordings date a few years before JB's earliest stuff. As for hip hop, sure JB was (and still is) a major influence, but I think it's a bit of a stretch that he gave birth to the form -- it didn't really come into being until Kool Herc and Afrika Bambaataa started rappin' over the breaks while spinnin' discs at block parties in the South Bronx during the mid-70s.--don
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
In a message dated 4/19/99 2:45:23 PM EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Agreed. David Crosby was really something else. He ain't shit compared to Norm.
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
Armstrong and Crosby loom over the first half of the century the way Elvis and JB do the second. Agreed. David Crosby was really something else.
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
The most influential pop musicians of the 20th century are, in order: 1) Louis Armstrong 2) Elvis Presley 3) James Brown 4) Bing Crosby Armstrong and Crosby loom over the first half of the century the way Elvis and JB do the second. Who's #5? Mahalia? Ellington? The Beatles or Dylan? Hank? I don't know, but those first four, man, no one can touch them. --david cantwell
RE: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
Your comments mirror those that have come in since I sent you the message. I for one enjoy these things on a one on one basis, but back and forth over this list thing get a little annoying. The whole thing started because the argument was that Jahnny Cash was more influential that Dylan. Rediculous, I know, but that's what they were arguing about. Did you get to see any of the Cash thing on TNT last night. I thought some moments were great, and others schlocky. J
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
In a message dated 4/19/99 2:32:43 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The most influential pop musicians of the 20th century are, in order: 1) Louis Armstrong 2) Elvis Presley 3) James Brown 4) Bing Crosby Armstrong and Crosby loom over the first half of the century the way Elvis and JB do the second. it's a great list, david, but i pick brown (as i did in an earlier post), if only because he all but birthed soul, funk, and hip hop--hell, you can probably throw disco in there as well. i know that by making such a claim i leave myself open to all kinds of nitpicking (sp?), but jb cut a mighty wide swath through his half of the century.
RE: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
Yeah, I can amuse myself for hours on a list like that. The question that immediately leaps to my mind is, "Does George Gershwin qualify as a pop musician thanks to his songs and jazz influence, or does he get shuffled off to classical." If pop, then I'd rank him #2. The only rock people that would make the list would be Elvis, Beatles, Hendrix. -Original Message- From: David Cantwell [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 19, 1999 9:36 AM To: passenger side Subject: Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician The most influential pop musicians of the 20th century are, in order: 1) Louis Armstrong 2) Elvis Presley 3) James Brown 4) Bing Crosby Armstrong and Crosby loom over the first half of the century the way Elvis and JB do the second. Who's #5? Mahalia? Ellington? The Beatles or Dylan? Hank? I don't know, but those first four, man, no one can touch them. --david cantwell
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
The most influential pop musicians of the 20th century are, in order: 1) Louis Armstrong 2) Elvis Presley 3) James Brown 4) Bing Crosby Armstrong and Crosby loom over the first half of the century the way Elvis and JB do the second. Who's #5? Mahalia? Ellington? The Beatles or Dylan? Hank? I don't know, but those first four, man, no one can touch them. --david cantwell Well, in order to reel in this madness, let's focus on rock, instead of pop. Who then? Elvis, Dylan or Cash or... ? I still stand by Dylan over Cash easily, but there's a good argument to be made that Elvis wins over Dylan. After all, he did define the sound, and he gets props for being maybe the first punk rocker by virture of swiveling his hips and all. Even still, nowadays, it makes much more sense to me to invoke Dylan, as I guess you all have discerned by now. And that's not just because *my* singing voice is stuck in my nose too. Neal Weiss np - Forces of Nature soundtrack
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
Yow, tough stuff. I'm inclinded to offer up (as Brad did) Bing Crosby, who pioneered how to sing pop into a microphone. Almost all pop singers use aspects of techniques he pioneered, from Elvis to Shania to Sinatra to Al Green. Carl Z.
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
In a message dated 4/19/99 12:18:03 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Blah blah Bob Dylan's the single most influential pop musician in the 20th century. Hands down. Not even close. Bob Dylan's more influential than Bing Crosby? Than Frank Sinatra? Than Louis Armstrong? Than Hank Williams? Than Jimmie Rodgers? Than Elvis Presley? JAMES BROWN
Re: Single Most Influential 20th Century Pop Musician
Yow, tough stuff. I'm inclinded to offer up (as Brad did) Bing Crosby, who pioneered how to sing pop into a microphone. Almost all pop singers use aspects of techniques he pioneered, from Elvis to Shania to Sinatra to Al Green. Because I got into a similar discussion yesterday in my bar with a CSNY advocate, I gotta chuck in Brian Wilson. In terms of harmony and arranging, he pretty much rewrote pop. Shame about the going bonkers thing. cherilyn.
