[RBW] Re: Shimmy, according to BQ

[doug peterson]

I've run similar loading experiments on my Atlantis.  The unloaded set-
up is a Nitto small front rack with Acorn Box Rando bag which I often
load up to 6-8 lbs without issue.  I have a Nitto Big Rear Rack (2 lbs
of real steel) for anything I may pick up along the way.  Unless I've
got a box of books or similar casually strapped to the back, the bike
is stable although the steering feels a bit wandering if I need to
take both hands off the bars.  Not a big deal.

The Atlantis will shimmy with extra weight only on the rear (2
panniers, total weight less than 20 lbs), such as a lodging tour
load.  Move that same load to front low riders, no shimmy.  Add
another pair of panniers for camping (15 lbs total), and the most
stable arrangement is with the lighter pair on the rear.  4 bags, with
the heavier on the rear, and the bike has that "tail wagging the dog"
feel, and has developed a nasty shimmy more than once.

The above is all with the same 35 mm touring tires and a 175 lb
rider.  I've fiddled with the headset adjustment, etc., and will
change to a needle bearing HS when the present one dies.  My
conclusion, for me & what I do with the bike, is to put the bulk of
any load on the front, with whatever's left over on the rear.

William may have reached the same conlusion in his post where he
reports eliminating the shimmy when he removed the rear saddlebag (12
lbs).  In any case, these experiments are great fun to perform and we
learn a lot about our bikes, preferences, and what works for us.  Rene
(above) is the only other Atlantis owner I can recall posting about
shimmy.

dougP

On Dec 22, 11:09 am, William  wrote:
> The drinard video is very good.  That's exactly the thing I'm looking
> at when running my experiments.
>
> On Dec 21, 9:34 pm, Tim McNamara  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Try the simple things first:  move the saddle slightly forward or  
> > back, maybe 1/2", to change the weight distribution of you on the  
> > bike.  Change the distribution of stuff you carry on the bike (or  
> > consider carrying less stuff).  Raise or lower the bars to change  
> > your position.  Make sure the headset is adjusted.  Make sure the  
> > wheels are true and properly aligned in the frame.  Swap the front  
> > tire to the back and vice versa; look for casing defects in the  
> > tires.  Try less inflation pressure (or more) in the tires.  Try a  
> > different size tire.  If your bike starts to shimmy with your hands  
> > on the bars, stand up slightly and ease your weight off the saddle-  
> > this will usually stop a shimmy instantly.
>
> > The cause of shimmy is not exactly known.  Since it tends to be speed-
> > dependent, it is likely that vertical and gyroscopic forces play a  
> > part.  There appear to be at least two fulcrum points, the rear tire  
> > contact patch and the saddle.  The bike frame appears to act as a  
> > spring, whipping back and forth; nutation can be observed with the  
> > steerer turning slightly in the head bearings as the front part of  
> > the frame travels laterally.  Interestingly the front tire contact  
> > patch usually continues to track in a straight line but, as the  
> > shimmy worsens, the contact patch can begin to arc back and forth on  
> > the road.  This is what is often meant when someone talks about a  
> > death wobble, because the vehicle becomes unstable and will often  
> > crash unless the wobble can be stopped.  Wobbles can be started by  
> > road surface irregularities
>
> > *Great* video by the much-missed-in-rec.bikes.tech Damon Rinard of a  
> > deliberately induced no-handed shimmy:
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xODNzyUbIHo
>
> > I wish that was in slo-mo.
>
> > This is Rob English crashing at the Battle Mountain IHPVA event on  
> > level terrain at about 70 mph (I bet he appreciated his fairing very  
> > much).  It appears to me that his pedaling effort caused the problem  
> > and that as the bike started to wobble, his pedaling amplified it.
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5Dapy1xUq0
>
> > My observations with my bikes (a 1996 Riv A/R [26 x 1.25], a 1995  
> > Ritchey Road custom [700 x 25], a 1998 Gunnar Crosshairs [700 x 28]  
> > and a home-built road bike [700 x 25] all with Panaracer Pasela tires  
> > at the rated maximum pressure) is that:
>
> > 1.  none of them currently shimmy with my hands on the bars.
>
> > 2. the Gunnar shimmied when I mounted a Nitto mini-rack on the front  
> > fork, even with no load on the rack, and stopped as soon as I removed  
> > the rack- I could feel the pulsation in my hands when they were on  
> > the bars.  The Gunnar sometimes shimmies if I ride no handed and lean  
> > back. Reynolds 853 with Waterford fork upgrade.  Oddly it did not  
> > shimmy with a really old Eclipse bar bag (one of the ones from the  
> > late 70s with a rack that slipped over the bars and under the stem  
> > and with elastic cords going down to the dropouts).
>
> > 3.  the Riv doesn't, with or without the same Nitto mini r

[RBW] Re: Rivendell HQ Pictures!

[doug peterson]

Looks like you got all the daylight out of that daygood for you.
Even some sunshine in some photos.  Love that look of the sun thru the
old oaks.  Thanks for posting.

dougP

On Dec 22, 12:11 am, MannyAcosta  wrote:
> Yay for Pictures! Mostly pictures of bicycles at HQ. Kettle-bell
> exercises and earthquake dips. You know the common stuff that you
> usually do at bike shops. Always fun enjoy the holidays.
>
> Pictures Proved that it 
> happened:http://www.flickr.com/photos/mannyacosta/sets/72157625650577664/
>
> -Manny "Ride more!" Acosta

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

[doug peterson]

Whoda thunk the humble zip tie would merit 62 (now 63) comments?  Now
that you've all got your fenders'n'flaps mounted to your satisfaction,
weather is not an excuse so get out there and ride those bikes!

Merry Christmas to all,

doug peterson (in briefly sunny So Cal; no fenders req'd)

On Dec 24, 10:48 am, William  wrote:
> Black zipties are the best fastener for the Saddlesack Large to its
> support rack.  The best.  The used bits are recycleable.
>
> On Dec 24, 10:41 am, George Schick  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Here's one solution that uses a combination of zip-ties, vinyl-lined P-
> > clamps, and stair tread-lined pipe hanger strap to fasten plastic
> > fenders to a dual-boinger, for what it's 
> > worth:http://www.flickr.com/photos/gp_rider/sets/72157611336739952/
>
> > On Dec 24, 2:31 am, Thomas Lynn Skean 
> > wrote:
>
> > > Small hose clamps lined with leather. 3 of them. No kidding. Pix
> > > tomorrow. Wald medium on a Nitto M-12. Works great.
>
> > > Yours,
> > > Thomas Lynn Skean
>
> > > On Dec 23, 8:56 pm, Ray Shine  wrote:
>
> > > > Wow!  I've always used zipties for fendres and baskets. I'm curious how 
> > > > one
> > > > efficiently mounts a basket to a front rack with anything other than 
> > > > zip ties?  
> > > > Pix to back it up?
>
> > > > 
> > > > From: Philip Williamson 
> > > > To: RBW Owners Bunch 
> > > > Sent: Thu, December 23, 2010 5:26:24 PM
> > > > Subject: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again
>
> > > > On Dec 23, 2:18 pm, Steve Palincsar  wrote:
>
> > > > > On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 13:56 -0800, JimD wrote:
>
> > > > > > Seriously, if you get your mind right (and it took some time for me 
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > do so), zip ties aren't a 'hack'.
> > > > > > They're an ingenious solution to many faster/fastening problems.
>
> > > > > Yes, but the Saluki doesn't present those problems.
>
> > > > > And yes, in this case zip ties are a hack and all the koolaid in the
> > > > > world isn't going to change that.
>
> > > > I'm pretty sure we're talking about mudflaps, not fenders. Nuts and
> > > > bolts for mudflaps are more of a hack than zipties.
> > > > The couture solution would be to have two brass snaps on the trailing
> > > > edge of every Honjo fender, and 'artisan' mudflaps that matched...
>
> > > > Philip
>
> > > > --
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>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Was Seattle New Years, Now: Ride Idea for 11 years from now

[doug peterson]

Always good to plan ahead; I'll mark my calendar.  Why night?  Maybe
meteor shower?

dougP

On Dec 26, 11:42 pm, James Warren  wrote:
> I hope I'm still riding a bike on 2/22/22 to attend the Atlantis 2 ride. 
> It'll be a fun night of riding. (Quiz: why must it be at night?)
>
> Families that bring two Atlanti will get special prizes.



> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: 64 cm Bombadil Arrived!

[doug peterson]

Kelly:

It's always so much fun when someone takes the time to photo their new
Rivendell as they unpack it.  They look almost as good in the bubble
wrap as they do assembled.  Thanks for posting.  Great job to get a
new bike that's so versatile you can take it right out in the snow!
Gotta love those plump tires.

dougP

On Dec 28, 8:18 pm, Kelly Sleeper  wrote:
> Well it seems like forever, but in reality it was very quick in arriving.  
> Even hasd a Christmas Tree and Candy Cane drawn on the box.
>
> The bike went together flawlessly and the first ride was great.  The
> Albatross bars are going to take some getting used to I think.
>
> The basket and grocery bag are great .. which was actually suprising to me.
>
> The more I look and read I'm seriously looking at the E3 symetrical light
> now instead of the Edulux like I have on my ahh.  Still hate the tail light
> but more light out front sure seems like the way to go.
>
> Got the 700x50 big apples instead of the fat franks because I was worried
> about dirt...  started out with 55 psi, think I'll be dropping that
> slightly.
>
> I had just put an xt reat derailur on the ahh standard, the Bombadil came
> with rapid rise.  Time to switch one of them.  Having them different will
> drive me nuttier than I already am.
>
> Weather and this head cold clear up a bit tomorrow see how it does on a
> 40ish mile meander.
>
> Here are some pics from the unboxing.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/tksleeper/sets/72157625693997926/
>
> Kelly

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[RBW] Re: Riv Ride Chiang Mai 12-27-10

[doug peterson]

Gernot:

Great photos.  100% Rivendell participation is a high bar to meet;
doubt we'll ever get there here in the States.

Hope I can hook up with you guys when I'm there next month.  Gotta
make that adjustment to riding British style.

dougP

On Dec 29, 6:52 am, Earl Grey  wrote:
> Up in the far north, almost 20 degrees latitude. :)
>
> Gernot

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[RBW] Re: Tonight's Quickbeam Ride

[doug peterson]

"Cooking with gas..." ah, the subversive within emerges.  The audio is
an effective addition.  Looking forward to more.

dougP

On Dec 29, 6:51 pm, Eric Norris  wrote:
> Still learning about video editing.  Enjoy:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJaofz2trvU
>
> --Eric
> campyonly...@me.comwww.campyonly.comwww.wheelsnorth.org

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[RBW] Re: A couple of grainy Sam photos.

[doug peterson]

Maybe Pugsley size could be comfortable on washboard but it would be t-
t-t-tou-gh-gh-gh on anything else, IMHO.  What size tires are you on,
at what pressure?

dougP

On Dec 29, 9:39 pm, Kelly Sleeper  wrote:
> Made me jealous!  Looks like a great time.
>
> Kelly

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[RBW] RR 31

[doug peterson]

Does anyone have this as a PDF?  Specifically looking Grant's article
on the eternal trail question.  The Atlantis & I have been out messing
with loading againthe things you start mulling about during
winter...

dougP

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[RBW] Re: RR 31

[doug peterson]

Trail is interesting, but it is not the sole
> >> splainer of bike handling, something nobody knows better
> >> than Waterford s Marc Muller (more on him later).
> >> The Educational-Type Fun Begins
> >> FOR ABOUT SEVEN YEARS I VE WANTED to experiment with trail
> >> by getting some forks with adjustable rakes, so we did.
> >> We also got non-adjustable forks with no rake, and with
> >> 65mm (whopping lot) of rake. You can do that when you
> >> have your own bike company and a publication to get
> >> out, but it takes more than snapping your fingers.
> >> The bikes are 59cm Romuluses. The Romulus is a road
> >> bike with what I think is a perfect geometry for allaround
> >> road riding. Pertinent to this story, it has a 73-
> >> degree head tube with 42.5mm of rake, which, with the
> >> stock Ruffy-Tuffy tire (343mm radius), results in 60mm
> >> of trail. It is as familiar to me as it gets.
> >> We equipped three bikes with different forks adjustable
> >> rake, 0mm rake, and 65mm rake; and of course we have
> >> a normal one, too (42.5mm rake), so really, four. I rode
> >> it up and down Mount Diablo and the local streets and
> >> roads. I rode it loaded and unloaded, on smooth and
> >> rough ground, holding onto the
> >> bars like you re supposed to, and
> >> no hands; over speed bumps (with
> >> hands and no hands), with a heavy
> >> basket, and at different speeds.
> >> The Problem With This Test
> >> It combines objective numbers and
> >> subjective feelings, and what I feel
> >> may not be what you d feel, because
> >> maybe we re used to different
> >> bikes, or one of us is more sensitive
> >> than the other. Also keep in mind
> >> that describing bicycle handling
> >> with normal language isn t always
> >> satisfactory. What I call quick
> >> might not feel so quick to somebody
> >> who s used to a 1987 64cm Ciocc (rhymes with
> >> poach ) Italian racing bike, for instance.
> >> Then this: I headed into this test knowing it would make
> >> a Reader story, and I found myself looking harder for
> >> things that I might not notice normally. I went out hoping
> >> to find hugely noticeable differences, and any
> >> nuance of the bike that suggested that got pounced on
> >> promptly and may be overplayed. I m not saying I couldn t
> >> tell a difference, I m just saying there s a natural tendency
> >> to overstate the differences for the sake of a good
> >> story, even when I m aware of that phenomenon.
> >> But After All That, Here s What I Think
> >> I could get used to any bike here. Off the bat I d say I d
> >> have a harder time getting used to a bike with too much
> >> trail than I would to a bike with too little, but bikes are
> >> fun to ride no matter what, so I d get over it.
> >> Also, I suspect the differences in the extreme versions
> >> tend to get neutralized when you re on the bike manhandling
> >> it. I think this because the biggest difference
> >> came out in no-hands riding the low-trail bikes were
> >> easy to ride at slow speed, where the tons-o -trail bikes
> >> were hard; and at high speeds it was just the opposite.
> >> But at slow or high speed, as long as I had my hands on
> >> the bars, it didn t seem difficult either way.
> >> As a bike designer, I find that quite comforting, but I still
> >> work hard to thread the needle. (Go to the next page now.)...
>
> >> There's lot's more and pictures that explain a lot, so if Grant&  co. give
> >> permission, or if we can do this in secret with nobody seeing...
> >> or buy Part No. 24-127, RR 26-35!
>
> >> On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 9:21 PM, doug peterson  wrote:
> >>> Does anyone have this as a PDF?  Specifically looking Grant's article
> >>> on the eternal trail question.  The Atlantis&  I have been out messing
> >>> with loading againthe things you start mulling about during
> >>> winter...
>
> >>> dougP
>
> >>> --
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>
> >> --
> >> Bill Gibson
> >> Tempe, Arizona, USA
>
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[RBW] Re: Goals for 2011:

[doug peterson]

Any day that I'm pushing the pedals is a good day, whether it's 10
miles or 70 miles.  As to goals, my daughter wants to try a 4 day tour
near her home so I'm the enabler & coach on that.  Put together a
guest bike to leave at her house so I don't have to ship the
Atlantis.  Caveat: said guest bike to be built from whatever is
currently in the garage, no parts purchases allowed (so I may be
trading for stuff!).  Now that my wife has the mini-lantis, it should
be easier to drag her away from the desk & onto the bike.  A couple of
double Atlantis tours should be an achievable goal.

dougP

On Dec 31, 9:43 am, David Faller  wrote:
> I like this.  It sounds achievable.
>
> On 12/31/2010 8:46 AM, robert zeidler wrote:
>
>
>
> > Even simpler for me:
> > 1. Not get dead.
> > 2. Have fun whenever possible.
>
> > On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 8:31 AM, Mike  > > wrote:
>
> >     Angus, that's a pretty good list of goals and accomplished items.
>
> >     For myself, I feel I rode a tad less this year but still had a ton of
> >     fun, hit some new roads and did a ton of riding on platform pedals and
> >     in regular clothes which was really rewarding. My main riding goal for
> >     the past 3 yrs has been wrapped up in randonneuring. My goals for next
> >     year:
>
> >     1. Finish another super randonneur series and finish each brevet a
> >     little faster.
> >     2. A sub-14hr 300k.
> >     3. Do either a 1000k and/or Fleche.
> >     4. More S36Os.
> >     5. At least one multi-day bike tour.
> >     6. Continue to learn how to work on my bike.
> >     7. Read more.
>
> >     My main winter goal was to sell my Rambouillet which isn't much of a
> >     goal but it's tough for me to part with stuff and even tougher to
> >     actually deal with selling stuff. I have a bunch of bike parts I need
> >     to sort through and sell. I also need to figure out what I'm gonna
> >     replace the Rambouillet with.
>
> >     --mike
>
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[RBW] Re: Goals for 2011:

[doug peterson]

That's 2 San Francisco to SoCal riders, I'll make it 3.  Sounds like
the makings of a Rivendell tour.  Nor Cal riders could take the train
back to Bay Area.  Think about it, boys'n'girlssummertime, the Big
Sur coast, tailwinds.  Out of area riders can fly into SFO & out of
LAX or San Diego.

A worthy goal:  "Complete multi-day, self supported bike tour."

dougP

On Dec 31, 10:19 am, Michael_S  wrote:
> I think I'll keep mine simple.
>
> 1. Ride at least one 200km Brevet
> 2. Bike tour from SF to LA
> 3. Do two s24o's ( one off road)
>
> I'd love to commute but it's 26 miles OW with some very busy hi-way
> sections.
> Hopefully I'll solve that when I relocate to Northern San Diego
> County, (hopefully this year).
>
> ~Mike~
>
> On Dec 31, 9:43 am, David Faller  wrote:
>
>
>
> > I like this.  It sounds achievable.
>
> > On 12/31/2010 8:46 AM, robert zeidler wrote:
>
> > > Even simpler for me:
> > > 1. Not get dead.
> > > 2. Have fun whenever possible.
>
> > > On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 8:31 AM, Mike  > > > wrote:
>
> > >     Angus, that's a pretty good list of goals and accomplished items.
>
> > >     For myself, I feel I rode a tad less this year but still had a ton of
> > >     fun, hit some new roads and did a ton of riding on platform pedals and
> > >     in regular clothes which was really rewarding. My main riding goal for
> > >     the past 3 yrs has been wrapped up in randonneuring. My goals for next
> > >     year:
>
> > >     1. Finish another super randonneur series and finish each brevet a
> > >     little faster.
> > >     2. A sub-14hr 300k.
> > >     3. Do either a 1000k and/or Fleche.
> > >     4. More S36Os.
> > >     5. At least one multi-day bike tour.
> > >     6. Continue to learn how to work on my bike.
> > >     7. Read more.
>
> > >     My main winter goal was to sell my Rambouillet which isn't much of a
> > >     goal but it's tough for me to part with stuff and even tougher to
> > >     actually deal with selling stuff. I have a bunch of bike parts I need
> > >     to sort through and sell. I also need to figure out what I'm gonna
> > >     replace the Rambouillet with.
>
> > >     --mike
>
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[RBW] Re: Handlebar Bag on 60 cm Sam Hillborne

[doug peterson]

Another option I'm partial to is the Acorn Boxy Rando on the little
Nitto mini front rack.  It leaves the handlebars completely free.  It
comes with 4 velcro straps to attach to the rack platform plus a
sleeve that slips over the vertical piece on the back of the rack.  I
added a couple of D-rings to the bottom toward the front and some
shock cord to make it easier to take off / on than the 4 straps.
Either way it's super secure & holds a ton of stuff.

Unless grossly over-loaded, it doesn't have much affect on handling on
my 58 cm Atlantis.  OTH, another list member had the same set-up on I
think a 60 cm AHH and seriously did not like what it did to his
handling.  Bags can be funny that way.

dougP


On Dec 31, 12:08 pm, scott  wrote:
> Go with a loafer and a bar tube combo. easy. I know the boxy bag is
> pretty, but I didn't like it. Prefer a bar bag with straps. Plus, the
> loafer is super duper secure on a rack and the tube gives you riding
> access to the few things you'll want while riding. A thought anyway.
>    Scott
>
> On Dec 31, 2:03 pm, Mike  wrote:
>
>
>
> > I ride a 63cm AHH and use the largest size Berthoud bag. I've used
> > both the Berthoud decaleur which attaches to the stem on the HB bold
> > and the VO headset spacer decaleur. Both have their advantages. Not
> > sure which would work best for your bike. The VO model is certainly
> > the cheaper of the two but the Berthoud is more secure. With the VO
> > model the bag can pop out of the decauler on bumpy roads. I like the
> > taller bag as it's easier to read a cue sheet and access the inside of
> > the main compartment. With a smaller bag it might be a little harder
> > to access depending on your bar height.
>
> > If you don't need the space on your handlebars for a computer or
> > lights you could consider the Sackville BarSack. I'm not sure if it
> > will affect the handling of your bike significantly but it seems a
> > nice enough design and certainly easier to set up and remove from the
> > bike.
>
> > Good luck. Be sure to let us know what you go with.
>
> > --mike- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Seattle New Years Day Ride

[doug peterson]

Andy:

So how are the Van's doing in cold country?  Looks like a new bag,
too.

dougP

On Jan 2, 6:07 am, "Andy.M"  wrote:
> It was great to finally meet up with some NW Riv riders!  Thanks to
> everyone for a great ride!
>
> Jim,  I moved up a few months ago, I'll probably be here about a
> year...
>
> And in case any of you SoCal boys were wondering, in true Rivendell
> fashion, pre-ride coffee and post ride beerits good to ride with
> like minded folks!
>
> -Andy
>
> On Jan 2, 1:37 am, James Warren  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Outstanding ride and photos. Thank you guys. I love these rides.
>
> > Andy, did you move up there or were you visiting?
>
> > - Jim W.
>
> > On Jan 1, 2011, at 11:48 PM, Rob Harrison wrote:
>
> > > Nice photos Brian! I posted a couple too:
>
> > >http://www.flickr.com/photos/robharrison/sets/72157625600543669/
>
> > > Really nice to meet Andy from SoCal (Atlantis), Tom (beautiful '93 XO-1) 
> > > and Brian (double-top-tube Sam with tooled leather bags!).
>
> > > Truly a great way to start the year.
>
> > > Rob in Seattle
>
> > > On Jan 1, 2011, at 9:26 PM, Brian Hanson wrote:
>
> > >> Here are some pics of today's Seattle New Year's Day ride.  We couldn't 
> > >> have asked for better weather (OK - maybe a bit warmer) and we had a 
> > >> great tour of the Seattle city and surrounding areas.  We had one flat 
> > >> and a minor ice spill, but mostly just great riding and discussion, as 
> > >> is becoming the usual on these rides.  
>
> > >>http://www.flickr.com/photos/stonehog/sets/72157625725360094/
>
> > >> Brian
>
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[RBW] Re: New News Post

[doug peterson]

Diet's a bit like luggage loading - you have to try stuff until you
find the one that works for you.  I disagree with Grant's notion that
calories in / calories out is incorrect.  From my observations, the
problem is people who take that approach typically go to extremes and
have unrealistic expectations of the speed of weight loss.  It can be
done but 1 lb a week is probably the upper limit.  Anything more rapid
is hard to control the urge to eat.

A much more fun program is riding your bike at least 100 miles per
week with the tires inflated to no more than 60 psi.  Mix in some dirt
trails, pushing the bike some, use the bike for utility and social
rides.  I still have to be conscious of what I eat but it doesn't take
a great deal of self control.

Beer, sad to say, must be rationed carefully.

RE:  Colnago - yea, looks like it got garaged or run over or something
severe.  This was not a JRA failure.

dougP

On Jan 2, 9:00 am, andrew hill  wrote:
> I've done a similar diet a few times in the past, easily dropping 15-30 
> pounds in a few months.  I've never tried "Atkins" per se, but had great 
> success with Rob Faigin's "Natural Hormone Enhancement", which cycles in the 
> occasional high-carb meal with a lowish-carb lifestyle (with the weight-loss 
> range of Mark's carb-curve).  It doesn't stress no-grain, though I've been 
> avoiding wheat for a few years for other reasons than fat loss.  
>
> Over the past couple of years I'd crept back up a bit in pudge, so in 
> mid-October I started eating Primal, with the goal of being much leaner by my 
> 40th birthday (which is tomorrow, as it happens.  I wonder if Rivendell will 
> send me a coupon :)  I'll probably get this new Taubes book once Grant et al 
> are stocking it, just for another perspective on this metabolic process, as 
> I'm trying to fit these results into a mathematical model.  I'm a scientist, 
> and do "believe" the science behind this sort of diet.  Grant - if you are 
> reading this, I suggest checking out Brain Building Nutrition by Schmidt; 
> it's more than tangentially related.
>
> So.. In the past 10 weeks or so I've lost about 22 lbs, and I'm now lighter 
> than I've been in 10 years.  It's been significantly easier than any other 
> "low-carb" diet I've tried.  Part of that may be because of some of the 
> specific recommendations Mark has made about limiting dairy (seems a breve' 
> latte is low-carb, but also somewhat insulinogenic, for me at least) and 
> upping good fat intake (coconut oil for the win!).
>
> Another 10 or so lbs to go, though I'm already getting a lot more notice from 
> all these superficial Los Angeles types I'm surrounded by.  :)
>
> Andrew
>
> On Jan 1, 2011, at 5:08 PM, Dave Minyard wrote:
>
>
>
> > I just saw this on the website. Good 
> > Stuff...http://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news_post/318. Say's it might only be 
> > up today.
>
> > Happy New Year!
>
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[RBW] The Lady & her Atlantis, part 2

[doug peterson]

A few photos from our New Years Day ride around Irvine & Lake Forest:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/33786...@n03/sets/72157625730541682/

Our older daughter was home during the holidays & we did some rides
with her on Melanie's old Tr*k.  She managed to pry the Atlantis away
from mom for a spin around the block, and couldn't believe the
difference.  What have I done?

dougP

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[RBW] Re: Snow in LA

[doug peterson]

Just returned from a trail ride here in Orange County.  Had to cut it
short as the rain got serious, but before that, the dampish sandy
conditions provided excellent traction.  No snow down here.yet!

Us southern Californians have to be especially careful due to
unfamiliarity with riding in the wet.  Andy M's experience on the
Seattle ride is Exhibit A.  Good thing he was on an Atlantis.

dougP

On Jan 2, 2:32 pm, Michael_S  wrote:
> Lucky I got in  a 20 miler this morning on the Ram, temp was about
> 45F.  Cuz' now we are getting some heavy wet snow flakes in Valencia
> about 40 min North of downtown.  We are about 1200 ft elevation.
> woohoo...snow!

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[RBW] Re: The Lady & her Atlantis, part 2

[doug peterson]

Michael:

"Atlantri" brings up images of an Atlantis set up for
triathlonpretty long stretch!  Carbon aero bars, close ratio
gearing, skinny tires.talk about fantasy land.  But you could
carry your stuff for all 3 events and ride your bike to the start.

dougP

On Jan 2, 12:47 pm, Michael_S  wrote:
> Looks like you had a nice ride Doug.
> What would 3 Atlantis's be Atlantri?
>
> ~Mike~
>
> On Jan 2, 12:21 pm, doug peterson  wrote:
>
>
>
> > A few photos from our New Years Day ride around Irvine & Lake Forest:
>
> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/33786...@n03/sets/72157625730541682/
>
> > Our older daughter was home during the holidays & we did some rides
> > with her on Melanie's old Tr*k.  She managed to pry the Atlantis away
> > from mom for a spin around the block, and couldn't believe the
> > difference.  What have I done?
>
> > dougP- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Last Ride of 2010: The Video

[doug peterson]

Eric:

Nice work; you spend your time well.  Looks like you got the last bit
of good weather for a few days.

dougP

On Jan 2, 12:25 pm, Eric Norris  wrote:
> Spent some time this morning listening to the rain, wondering whether I 
> should ride, and putting together this video from Friday's ride. Enjoy.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4S2xuNpgJg&sns=em
>
> --Eric N

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[RBW] Re: Gray Whale 200K

[doug peterson]

Anne:

A bar tube bag is a great place to keep food.  They hold a suprising
amount but don't get in the way or affect the bikes handling the way a
larger bag may.

dougP

On Jan 2, 9:18 pm, Anne Paulson  wrote:
> As of last night, I'm averaging 200K per day for 2011.
>
> Thanks, everyone, for the brevet advice. As promised, here's the report.
>
> The forecast was for rain all morning, SE wind 5-15 mph in the
> morning, rain stopping and wind dying down in the afternoon; almost
> ideal for an out-and-back that went northeast for the first half.  I
> was worried about being cold and wet, so I packed up an extra pair of
> socks, a pair of gloves, and an spare wool undershirt (those Ibex
> woolies are *fantastic*). I also brought rain pants. I planned to wear
> an Ibex wooly undershirt, a jersey, a rain jacket, polarfleece tights
> over shorts, and wool socks with booties over them. For food I brought
> some brownie bites with peppermint patties in them, and a meat pie,
> plus a flask of gel.
>
> I overslept yesterday morning, so I had to rush to get out of the
> house. Luckily, I'd packed up everything the night before. In the
> rush, though, I probably didn't eat enough breakfast.
>
> I arrived in plenty of time, with a good chance to check out the other
> bikes. I didn't see any other Rivs, though I think there may have been
> an orange one I missed. Several riders had beautiful Steve Rex bikes.
> Several riders were using Rivish canvas handlebar bags, some with
> decaleurs. Oddly, about a third of the riders didn't have fenders,
> even though rain was predicted and it was in fact raining.
>
> Since it was raining steadily at the start, I donned the rain pants. I
> stopped a couple of times near the start of the ride, so ended up
> riding alone, but with a tailwind that didn't matter. The rain tailed
> off after about an hour, and the wind picked up. I was zipping right
> along, not working too hard. What a delight it was to ride an empty
> Highway 1.
>
> I stopped for a pitstop and snack just north of Pigeon Point, maybe 30
> miles in, but didn't eat very much. Between Pescadero and San Gregorio
> I was catching  up to a tandem. I had visions of that tandem being my
> new best friend on the way back into the wind, but then at the base of
> the hill just north of San Gregorio, I was feeling a little bonkish so
> I stopped for a peppermint, and I didn't see the tandem couple again.
> That hill is pesky-- it's only about three or four hundred feet, but
> it always seems more difficult that I think it should. Perhaps it
> always comes at a difficult time in a ride-. Usually I approach it
> after having climbed Page Mill, Haskins Hill and the two little hills
> on Stage Road, so I'm tired. There are three ways to climb it, and the
> one I was doing, north on Highway 1, is the easiest. Still, I was glad
> to summit and ride the rollers to Half Moon Bay. After Half Moon Bay,
> it was only a few miles to the turnaround.
>
> I reached the turnaround four hours in, feeling strong, and took the
> last parking spot at the end of the line-up of bikes stretched out
> along the wall of the market. I was hoping for hot soup or a tasty
> sandwich, but the convenience store had only nasty-looking premade
> sandwiches and no soup. I had a chocolate milk, a banana, a brownie
> bite and a couple of bites of meat pie-- not really enough. The people
> still left at the rest stop when I was ready to go looked strong, like
> I wouldn't be able to stay with them, so I headed out alone.
>
> It was tough. That happy dream of the wind dropping was a
> weatherliar's fantasy. The wind continued just as it had been all day,
> with whitecaps out on the ocean, only now I had to ride into it. I
> figured on stopping every fifteen miles on the way back. The first
> stop was a random beach, where I was the only one enjoying the cold
> windy picnic tables. I didn't linger, and again I didn't eat enough.
>
> My second stop was at Gazos Creek. I had just leaned my bike against
> the wall to go in the convenience store when I noticed a group of
> cyclists passing. I jumped back on the bike and with my last strength,
> bridged to join them. The benefit was obvious; I could sit in for a
> while and stop fighting the wind I'd been fighting for thirty miles.
> The cost became clear; I needed to eat and to get more water, but I
> didn't. But three angels riding Steve Rex bikes babysat me for the
> rest of the route, as I got weaker and weaker. We stopped in
> Davenport. One of the angels handed me a Coke. I slurped it down, but
> I was still draggling as one of my angels escorted me, slowly, to the
> end of the ride, ten and a half hours after I started.
>
> Reflections:
>
> The ride was harder than I expected, and the challenge was different.
> I expected to be cold and wet, but in fact it rained only for about
> the first hour, with a few sprinkles near the end. But the wind was
> tough. The main problem, though, was my (stupidly unrecognized at the

[RBW] Re: How do you know when tires are worn out?

[doug peterson]

I've been using Schwalbes for a few years.  When the "V" tread is
completely worn off in the center of the tire, I figure they've earned
their keep.  They usually go 5-6k on a rear at 35 mm width.

dougP

On Jan 3, 12:24 pm, Michael Shaljian  wrote:
> I've had a set of Jack Browns on my Quickbeam since getting it in May
> '09, and I've probably got near 2500 miles on them. They seem to ride
> just fine, but I'm wondering what I should be looking for to know if
> the tread is worn out. I'm 180 lbs., for what it's worth, and I assume
> these should have a max lifespan of about 3000 miles?
>
> If the original 'checkerboard tread' has been worn down to totally
> smooth, are they worn out? Or are they basically fine until all tread
> is gone? As expensive as good tires are I'm not eager to change sooner
> than necessary, but I do have a set of Schwalbes waiting that I'd like
> to try out, maybe just to mix up my riding with new rubber?

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[RBW] Re: Gray Whale 200K & handlebar bag

[doug peterson]

On issue regarding front bags that has not been mentioned is cross
winds.  Anne mentioned it was quite windy on the brevet.  A large boxy
front bag (I use the Acorn Boxy Rando mostly) has quite a bit of "sail
area" as well as sticking toward the front.  I definitely notice cross
winds but it's not much of a control issue.  Prior to the Acorn, I
used Riv's Hobo and Bar Tube.  These both sit close to the bars and I
never noticed a cross wind issue with them.  Most of my riding is
utility and touring so I lean toward capacity and convenience.  For an
event such as a brevet, however, the bar tube for immediate needs such
as food, combined with a saddlebag for clothes, tools, tubes, etc.,
may be a better selection.

dougP

On Jan 4, 1:45 am, JimD  wrote:
> +1 for bar bags.
> I use one of the Riv bar tubes on my custom with a small ps camera,  
> and food in it.
> I've not noticed any effect on handling.
> -JimD
>
> On Jan 3, 2011, at 6:46 PM, Joan Oppel wrote:
>
>
>
> > Thanks for the terrific write up on the brevet.  As for handlebar  
> > bags:  for touring (which I do with only rear panniers as I motel  
> > tour),  I use a lightweight small bag on my handlebars that carries  
> > my point&shoot digital camera and food.  The bag is an unmentionable  
> > brand but it is quite light.  A headlight would still fit on the top  
> > of the bars.  I cannot notice any difference in handling of the  
> > Bleriot (or for that matter, the Waterford) with that small bag.  
> > And since I mostly ride both bikes without a bag, I think I would  
> > notice if the bag had some effect.  If needed, I can unzip the bag,  
> > grab a bar, tear the wrapper with my teeth and eat it while riding.  
> > Not my first choice, but I've done it to hang with folks.
>
> > A small, light bag might work on the Roadeo.
> > Happy riding,
> > Joan
>
> > Jan 3, 2011 08:51:25 PM, rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com wrote:
> > Congrats. Definitely shows my rides over the weekend were properly
> > weak.
>
> > Makes me want to contemplate a 200k in the future. However, will not
> > join a club just to do the one ride.
>
> > Eric Platt
> > St. Paul, MN
>
> > On Jan 3, 1:23 pm, Anne Paulson wrote:
> > > On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 11:10 AM, William wrote:
> > > > Anne
>
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[RBW] Re: SoCal Riv Ride - Feb 12 in SD

[doug peterson]

This is the perfect reason to install my new 40 mm Marathons.  The
calendar is marked.  Hey Rob, drive down to Irvine & we'll take my car
the rest of the way.  Yea, long time in a tin box but you only have to
drive half of it!

dougP

On Jan 4, 1:32 pm, rperks  wrote:
> I want to do this, but the distance on the highway has my head
> spining.  Santiago Peak was the most time I spent in a car in 6
> months.  This one would be 200 miles each way, through LA and Orange
> Counties.
>
> But the mountains out there are so so cool, decisions.
>
> I may have to use this as an excuse to head into our own back counrty
> and partake in spirit.  or if you get there early and find me sleeping
> in the green golf knock on the window,
>
> Tough choices
>
> On Jan 4, 12:27 pm, cyclotourist  wrote:
>
>
>
> > The JBs would be great on the 35ish miles of paved road, and don't sound
> > like they would be a hindrance on the dirt... so dust off that Ram!
>
> > On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 12:08 PM, Esteban  wrote:
> > > I think the dirt sections are relatively mellow (save for a few 50-ft.
> > > sections with big rocks to prevent erosion, which may have all of us
> > > walking).  35s recommended, but the jump from JBs up to those is not
> > > huge.
>
> > > On Jan 4, 11:27 am, Michael_S  wrote:
> > > > Would Jack Browns be a good choice for this ride or something more
> > > > studly?
>
> > > > I'm marking it on my calender right now too.
>
> > > > ~Mike~
>
> > > > On Jan 4, 11:17 am, Esteban  wrote:
>
> > > > > Folks - This is going to be a real treat.  Some of the attributes of
> > > > > our back country are: 1) fairly close to downtown San Diego - our
> > > > > starting point is about 12 miles east of the gleaming waterfront; 2)
> > > > > Its really wild out there on the trails - no spa-style hikers and dog
> > > > > walkers (no offense intended), just rugged country and surprising
> > > > > wilderness; 3) wide open country roads with breathtaking vistas of the
> > > > > mountains, Mexico, desert, ocean, etc.  This will be completely worth
> > > > > the trip. Here's the photoset of the ride that Dustin curated last
> > > > > year:
>
> > > > >http://www.flickr.com/photos/25671...@n02/sets/72157623972790726/
>
> > > > > This ride won't be quite as alpine, but we have good beer here, too
> > > > > (the famous, tiny, Alpine Brewery is not far off this route), and I'm
> > > > > sure we'll include some in our activities for the day if you wish to
> > > > > partake.
>
> > > > > I'm hoping to run the freshly-painted Protovelo with Hetres, topped
> > > > > perhaps by Albatross bars for pure fun.  We'll see.
>
> > > > > No one's left behind, but there will be bail-out options.  Would be
> > > > > worth a trip for disaster-prone Southern California-ians.  Perhaps
> > > > > worth a trip for folks further out!
>
> > > > > Esteban
> > > > > San Diego, Calif.
>
> > > > > On Jan 4, 10:08 am, cyclotourist  wrote:
>
> > > > > > February's planned ride lets us get inland a bit, as well as giving
> > > the SD
> > > > > > crowd have a break from traveling (the price of living in paradise).
> > >  It's
> > > > > > shaping up to be a 50+ mile mixie, over mostly back roads and ~30%
> > > dirt
> > > > > > content guaranteed.  A chunk of climbing, so work on those 
> > > > > > intervals!
> > >  Hope
> > > > > > the North LA & Ventura crowd can make it down there!  We're going to
> > > try to
> > > > > > meet up @ 9:00 to get on the road by 9:30
>
> > > > > > A route map and some more specifics can be seen here:
> > >http://www.flickr.com/groups/socal_rivendell_bicycle_appreciation_soc...
>
> > > > > > As with all these rides, expect to meet some really great folks and
> > > put
> > > > > > faces to  names, as well as to see some beautiful areas of SoCal 
> > > > > > that
> > > you
> > > > > > probably have never been to!  All bikes are welcome, aluminum, 
> > > > > > bamboo
> > > and
> > > > > > crabon. Run what you brung!  Rain or shine, unless there's one of 
> > > > > > the
> > > recent
> > > > > > "decade" storms we've been having.  Otherwise fenders and wool 
> > > > > > should
> > > handle
> > > > > > it nicely.
>
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > David
> > > > > > Redlands, CA
>
> > > > > > *...in terms of recreational cycling there are many riders who would
> > > > > > probably benefit more from
> > > > > > improving their taste than from improving their performance.* - 
> > > > > > RTMS-
> > > Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> > > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> > > .
> > > For more options, visit this group at
> > >http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>
> > --
> > Cheers,
> > David
> > Redlands, CA
>
> > *...in terms of recreational 

[RBW] Riv guys in Chiang-Mai

[doug peterson]

>From a recent field survey, I can confirm there really are three (3)
Rivendell's in Thailand:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/33786397@N03/5391092687/

Paul, Gernot & Kip have posted info on their bikes and also think
there may be some Rivendells in Bangkok (if you're out there, let us
know!).  We met at the end of my tour and was unfortunately too worn
out to go with them on their Sunday ride.

Just completed 570 miles thru northern Thailand from Chiang-Rai to the
Mekong River, then along the border to the Golden Triangle (only got a
refrigerator magnet there, nothing stronger) and back to Chiang-Mai.
High point was Doi Mea-Salong (1,200m), the climb including long
stretches of 15-20% grades (one kick to 37%), requiring plenty of
hike'n'bike.  Although intended to be a road tour, we got our share of
mixed surface in the form of multi-kilometer sections of road
construction (the clay is pretty good if dry; not so good when wet).
Conditions were generally good and drivers excellent.

In an attempt to simplify logistics, the Atlantis stayed home & I used
a rental bike that proved over-geared and under maintained.  However,
my trusty Baggins Bar Tube (never leave home without one) fits any
bike and keeps the camera and food at the ready.

Thailand is truly a wonderful country with friendly people.  With the
mix of city, country, mixed surfaces and challenging climbs, a Riv has
the versatility needed to enjoy this trip.

dougP

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[RBW] Re: Toyo versus Waterford Atlantis

[doug peterson]

Holy rack mounts, Batman!  Just back from my wanderings & of course
can't resist a thread with "Atlantis" in the subject line (really wish
I'd had mine with me but that's another story).  IIRC, GP specs the
bike and the vendor builds it to spec.  A brazed joint can only be so
good and both Waterford and Toyo have proven they pass the test.
Therefore, there should be no functional difference between the two
builders, and a frame from either should perform equally well.  Riv is
pretty careful about the quality of their vendors so spend your energy
on which Riv meets your needs and don't stress who built it.  If in
doubt, just get an Atlantis.

dougP

On Jan 26, 5:08 pm, jose  wrote:
> It comes down to your aesthetic sense. If you are not that much into
> the details of how things look, then it doesn't matter because quality-
> wise they are identical.
>
> But if you do care about the details, then I think you'd have to look
> at the specific bike to determine what you like more.
>
> Totally subjective.
>
> I do remember a Grant post mentioning he really liked some of the
> details on the last run of Toyo Atlantis. Here it is:
>
> http://www.rivbike.com/blogs/knothole_post/196
>
> I have both a 2006 and one of these last-run 2010 Atlantii.  I like
> both (a lot), but I overall I prefer the look of the 2006.  For
> example, I like the curvey lugs of the 2006 more. Many people have
> said they prefer the newer, pointy lugs.
>
> Tomato, jitomate.
>
> On Jan 26, 3:52 pm, Bruce  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Current Atlantis production is Waterford. Up until last year (I think), they
> > came from Toyo. Toyo was the only source for Rambouillet, Saluki and
> > Romulus/Redwood. AHH was blended as you suggest, and is now all Waterford. I
> > think if you get them to take an order for a Legolas, it would come from
> > Waterford as well. The website currently shows Bombadil, Rodeo, Atlantis, 
> > and
> > Hilsen as US made (Waterford). Hunqapillar, Gomez, Foy, Amos,  Simpleone as
> > Taiwan made (Maxway)
>
> > 
> > From: Ryan 
> > To: RBW Owners Bunch 
> > Sent: Wed, January 26, 2011 12:19:28 PM
> > Subject: [RBW] Re: Toyo versus Waterford Atlantis
>
> > As far as I know, Atlantises (Atlanti?) were only Toyo-built. But I'm
> > sure that someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
>
> > My impression is that later models...I'm thinking of the AHH in
> > particular ...were either Toyo or Waterford-built. And as others on
> > this thread have noted, the Sams are either built by Waterford or in
> > Taiwan under the supervision of Toyo
>
> > That being said, regardless of the origin, Grant's design philosophy
> > and attention to detail are evident...you say tomaytoes and I say
> > tomaahtoes . Rivendells are great bikes
>
> > Regards,
> > Ryan in Winnipeg,MB
>
> > On Jan 22, 10:34 pm, Bob  wrote:
>
> > > How does the Toyo built Atlantis differ in quality and/or geometry
> > > from the Waterford edition?  Exclude differences in braze-ons,
> > > kickstand plate and range of sizes.
>
> > > In other words, what, if anything, was gained or lost by the change in
> > > builder?
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> > "RBW
> > Owners Bunch" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group 
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>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Marathon Supremes

[doug peterson]

MIke:

My Atlantis came with Paselas which were good but prone to sidewall
cuts due to my lack of attention in where I ride.  I changed to the
Marathon Supremes a few years back and will soon install my 3rd pair.
Expect 4-5k miles on a rear and few if any flats.  I run 60 psi and
only pump them up once or twice a month.  Wonderful tires.  Pricey to
buy but cost effective on a per mile or per flat basis.  You may now
forget about tires for a year or two.

dougP

On Jan 26, 8:43 pm, Mike  wrote:
> I got out for a 60 mile ride on the Hilsen today. It was my first ride
> on Schwalbe Marathon Supremes (700x35) which I purchased from Riv last
> week. What a fantastic tire! I love them. Just a really really good
> tire. They seemed to ride as nicely as Paselas but are hopefully
> sturdier. I also like that they have a reflective strip. I really have
> grown to love Schwalbe tires.
>
> --mike

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[RBW] Re: Marathon Supremes

[doug peterson]

Those are 50s?  Wow!  And I thought my Atlantis fork had clearance.
Those really fit the character of the bike.  The speedblends look a
bit lost on the Hunqa.  Looks like matching Acorn bags, no?  Nice
build.

dougP

On Jan 27, 2:38 pm, Jennings  wrote:
> My Pillar has been Hunqafied.  Just posted some pictures on my flickr
> account of the Hunqapillar with the 700x50's supremes.  Man are they
> smooth.  You can view them 
> here.http://www.flickr.com/photos/22765148@N02/sets/72157625334333105/
>
> On Jan 27, 10:22 am, Mike  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Please post pictures of your Hunqa with those tires on them. Sounds
> > like a great set-up.
>
> > On Jan 27, 4:40 am, Jennings  wrote:
>
> > > My 700x50 supremes were delivered yesterday by UPS.  Can't wait to get
> > > them on the Hunq and try them ou this weekend.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Toyo versus Waterford Atlantis

[doug peterson]

I wouldn't doubt that by now the OP (Bob) has given up.  But recall
his original question:

This is not questionaing the
obviously excellent Riv quality, but about subtle specifics of
interest to velohistorians an bike nerds.  The question remains
unanswered.  For example, are their differences between the acclaimed
Toyo and current Waterford forks?  What about subtle bends in the
chainstay and other tubing?  There must be things that Toyo and
Waterford do uniquely well.  What are they?

The "subtle specifics of interest to velohistorians an bike nerds" may
require an assemblage of Atlantises to sort out.  With running
changes, production of 400 per year (or something like that), and
small production runs, Riv probably can't track them that well.  Other
than really obvious stuff like the pointy vs roundy lugs (I had mine
for several years before knowing about that) and kickstand plates, the
really subtle stuff would be hard to quantify.

That's an inadequate answer but the only one I can come up with.

dougP


On Jan 26, 10:42 am, Bob  wrote:
> The current Riv Atlantis is built by Waterford.  My original question
> concerned whether, excluding paint, braze ons and probably tubing, the
> Waterford is identical to the Toyo build. This is not questionaing the
> obviously excellent Riv quality, but about subtle specifics of
> interest to velohistorians an bike nerds.  The question remains
> unanswered.  For example, are their differences between the acclaimed
> Toyo and current Waterford forks?  What about subtle bends in the
> chainstay and other tubing?  There must be things that Toyo and
> Waterford do uniquely well.  What are they?
>
> On Jan 26, 1:19 pm, Ryan  wrote:
>
>
>
> > As far as I know, Atlantises (Atlanti?) were only Toyo-built. But I'm
> > sure that someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
>
> > My impression is that later models...I'm thinking of the AHH in
> > particular ...were either Toyo or Waterford-built. And as others on
> > this thread have noted, the Sams are either built by Waterford or in
> > Taiwan under the supervision of Toyo
>
> > That being said, regardless of the origin, Grant's design philosophy
> > and attention to detail are evident...you say tomaytoes and I say
> > tomaahtoes . Rivendells are great bikes
>
> > Regards,
> > Ryan in Winnipeg,MB
>
> > On Jan 22, 10:34 pm, Bob  wrote:
>
> > > How does the Toyo built Atlantis differ in quality and/or geometry
> > > from the Waterford edition?  Exclude differences in braze-ons,
> > > kickstand plate and range of sizes.
>
> > > In other words, what, if anything, was gained or lost by the change in
> > > builder?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Riv guys in Chiang-Mai

[doug peterson]

Here's a link to a dozen photos from the tour:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/33786397@N03/sets/72157625816044561/

Just a quick sampler; didn't want to clutter things up with gratuitous
pix of people you don't know & the ever-popular food photos.

For real deal, get with Gernot & hop on a plane.  Dec & Jan are the
best months for cycle touring Thailand.

dougP

On Jan 27, 10:48 pm, James Warren  wrote:
> Gernot,
> This would be awesome! I had the same thoughts when I was in Japan. I just 
> wanted a good bike to ride around, but the process of bringing one with me 
> seemed really difficult or expensive.
>
> Long Haul Truckers. That's what you should rent. And I wrote that before I 
> saw that you mentioned it in your post.
>
> To clarify, I don't have any plans on going to Thailand, but the idea in 
> general is something that I think would be appealing, and I completely agree 
> with you that tourers for rental is something that should exist.
>
> -Jim
>
> On Jan 27, 2011, at 10:37 PM, Earl Grey wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hearing Doug's and his friends' comments about their rental bikes (non
> > functioning brakes, broken pawls on freewheels, road racing gearing,
> > 25mm tires) makes me once again seriously consider starting a Bobish/
> > Rivish bike touring/bike rental company here in Thailand.
>
> > Thailand is fantastic for mixed surface riding: the road network is
> > extensive enough (unlike in Laos or Cambodia, for example) that it is
> > easy to avoid highways almost completely even for point to point
> > travel, but a fair number of the minor roads still turn into dirt
> > roads as they cross the hills, to turn back to good pavement on the
> > other side. And of course the food is excellent, and accommodations
> > are generally comfortable, available in almost any small town, and
> > reasonable (a clean room for two with private bath is usually under
> > $20).
>
> > Doing a rental business with Rivendells is probably not cost-
> > effective, but how would a fleet of Surly LHTs appeal? I know I am not
> > going to get rich with this scheme, but it seems like such a shame
> > that one basically can't rent a good touring bike anywhere in the
> > world, and Thailand is my favorite country so far for bike touring,
> > having toured in California, Italy, Germany, Thailand and Japan.
>
> > Let me know if you might be interested in such a service. I would
> > probably be offering plain bike rentals, rentals with custom route
> > planning and GPS rental, as well as fully supported custom tours with
> > accommodations and support vehicle. If I did this, I would start with
> > 4-6 bikes, so I wouldn't be able to accommodate large groups at first.
>
> > Cheers,
>
> > Gernot
>
> > On Jan 27, 7:12 am, doug peterson  wrote:
> >> From a recent field survey, I can confirm there really are three (3)
> >> Rivendell's in Thailand:
>
> >>http://www.flickr.com/photos/33786397@N03/5391092687/
>
> >> Paul, Gernot & Kip have posted info on their bikes and also think
> >> there may be some Rivendells in Bangkok (if you're out there, let us
> >> know!).  We met at the end of my tour and was unfortunately too worn
> >> out to go with them on their Sunday ride.
>
> >> Just completed 570 miles thru northern Thailand from Chiang-Rai to the
> >> Mekong River, then along the border to the Golden Triangle (only got a
> >> refrigerator magnet there, nothing stronger) and back to Chiang-Mai.
> >> High point was Doi Mea-Salong (1,200m), the climb including long
> >> stretches of 15-20% grades (one kick to 37%), requiring plenty of
> >> hike'n'bike.  Although intended to be a road tour, we got our share of
> >> mixed surface in the form of multi-kilometer sections of road
> >> construction (the clay is pretty good if dry; not so good when wet).
> >> Conditions were generally good and drivers excellent.
>
> >> In an attempt to simplify logistics, the Atlantis stayed home & I used
> >> a rental bike that proved over-geared and under maintained.  However,
> >> my trusty Baggins Bar Tube (never leave home without one) fits any
> >> bike and keeps the camera and food at the ready.
>
> >> Thailand is truly a wonderful country with friendly people.  With the
> >> mix of city, country, mixed surfaces and challenging climbs, a Riv has
> >> the versatility needed to enjoy this trip.
>
> >> dougP
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>

[RBW] Re: Ride report: 100 km ride from the Burmese border to Chiang Rai, Thailand

[doug peterson]

You guys got a lot better photos than I did, and really captured the
feel of country.  Now you need to do the same type of ride up to Doi
Mea-Salong & get photos of the hills!  I spent so much time pushing my
bike I didn't even think about the camera.  We also found some pretty
stiff climbs from Chiang-Mai to Samoeng.

dougP

On Jan 31, 5:49 am, William Pustow  wrote:
>    Guys, you're killing me with the food photos. There are many things I love 
> about Thailand. One of the main things is the food. I'd like to start the day 
> with Thai iced coffee (in a plastic bag with a straw, of course) and fried 
> bananas.
>    Great report!
> Thanks,
> Bill
>
> On Jan 30, 2011, at 10:28 PM, Earl Grey wrote:
>
>
>
> > Paul and I headed up to the Burmese border on Saturday to renew our
> > Thai visas. These border runs are a boring fact of life for many
> > foreigners in Chiang Mai, who take the morning bus up to the border
> > (5-6 hrs), cross the border, have lunch, and take the afternoon bus
> > back to Chiang Mai.
>
> > I always bring my bike and stay overnight and find an interesting way
> > to ride to Chiang Rai, a third of the way back to Chiang Mai. This
> > time I brought Paul along as well, for an all-Sam, mixed terrain, find-
> > the-smallest-roads-and-dirt-tracks-we-can, riding adventure.
>
> > My photos start here:www.flickr.com/photos/25150892@N08/5402500499/
>
> > Paul's photos start here:
> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulatwork/sets/72157625812729019/with/5...
>
> > Btw, I planned the route withwww.ridewithgps.com(which uses Google
> > maps) and uploaded it to my GPS. Otherwise it would be impossible to
> > do such a route in unfamiliar territory and make it to your
> > destination in time to catch a bus. Google maps and my GPS map are
> > often wrong about the tiny side roads in Thailand, but with a planned
> > route and a GPS to re-orient yourself when the road you were planning
> > to take doesn't exist, it's just the right mixture of adventure and
> > predictability for me.
>
> > Cheers,
>
> > Gernot
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
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[RBW] Re: funky Riv frame on ebay

[doug peterson]

Andy:

This bike is the perfect complement to your Atlantis!  Stop shakin' &
start clickin'!  I'm glad they kept the contrasting panels & details
in the re-paint.  The front is really striking.

dougP

On Feb 2, 8:56 am, "Andy.M"  wrote:
> Hence the shaky hand!
>
> On Feb 2, 8:55 am, "cyclotour...@gmail.com" 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Yes, I definitely remember it.  Saw it at the San Diego show
> > even!!! :-)
>
> > It's your size, isn't it...???!!!?!?!?!
>
> > On Feb 2, 7:38 am, "Andy.M"  wrote:
>
> > > Dave,
> > > It was a custom that went wrong in some way.  After like a year or two
> > > of back and forth the bike got built but it was missing something.
> > > Its so gorgeousmust...stayaway.
>
> > > Andy  "with a shaky hand in Seattle"
>
> > > On Feb 2, 7:21 am, cyclotourist  wrote:
>
> > > > IIRC, it was listed on the site as one of their Proto-specials they did 
> > > > for
> > > > a couple bikes last year???
>
> > > > On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 7:18 AM, Esteban  wrote:
> > > > > Here's the bike in its original form at SDCBS:
> > > > >http://www.flickr.com/photos/25671211@N02/4512933760/
>
> > > > > Certainly a juicy untold story on this, all the way around.  Did it
> > > > > end up at the garage sale, or up on the website after it was re-Riv-
> > > > > ified?
>
> > > > > A kickstand plate!
>
> > > > > Esteban
> > > > > San Diego, Calif.
>
> > > > > On Feb 2, 6:33 am, stevep33  wrote:
> > > > > > A memorable frame in Riv history...
>
> > > > > > Does anyone have a link to some discussion on this frame?  I 
> > > > > > couldn't
> > > > > > find it.  Was there a RBW blog entry on it too?
> > > > > > Just looking for more info on tire clearance, effective TT
> > > > > > measure...more details and history, etc.
>
> > > > > > On Feb 2, 8:54 am, Mike  wrote:
>
> > > > > > > I remember seeing this frame pop-up in a topic thread and maybe 
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > sale on the Riv site. Now it's on ebay. I love the fork crown. Too
> > > > > > > small for me.
>
> > > > > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230581099589
>
> > > > > > > --mike
>
> > > > > --
> > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> > > > > Groups
> > > > > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> > > > > To post to this group, send email to 
> > > > > rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > > > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> > > > > .
> > > > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>
> > > > --
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > David
> > > > Redlands, CA
>
> > > > *...in terms of recreational cycling there are many riders who would
> > > > probably benefit more from
> > > > improving their taste than from improving their performance.* - RTMS- 
> > > > Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Supremes for mild off-road (non-pavement)

[doug peterson]

>From the opposite corner of the country from Maine, the Marathon
Supremes work well on my Atlantis both on & off pavement.  Off road
here is either adobe clay, not unlike concrete (why the Spanish
missions have been around for hundreds of years) or rocky, sandy
stuff.  35s are a bit narrow for deep sand so I'm going up to 40s next
time.  I don't do anything especially adventerous, mostly jeep trails
& such.

dougP

On Feb 2, 7:44 pm, Mike  wrote:
> Be careful riding in mud though...
>
> On Feb 2, 7:20 pm, Forrest  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Good to know! Thanks.
>
> > On Feb 2, 9:18 pm, ejg  wrote:
>
> > > Well,
> > >  They certainly aren't ideal for the current conditions, but they do
> > > work in the snow
>
> > > On Feb 2, 9:46 pm, Forrest  wrote:
>
> > > > Thanks for the positive, encouraging, review. It does surprise me a
> > > > little that the Supreme, which looks to me like kind of a grooved
> > > > slick, does well in the snow.  -- Forrest
>
> > > > On Feb 2, 8:00 pm, ejg  wrote:
>
> > > > > Hi
> > > > > they work fine for me off road. They live on my touring bike and I've
> > > > > gotten thousands of miles with no flats. (Knock Wood)
> > > > > They are regularly used for roads, dirt roads, gravel, very fine bike
> > > > > path stone and this winter here in Maine they are getting more than
> > > > > there fair share of snow rides. Like 
> > > > > thishttp://www.flickr.com/photos/31238317@N03/5402673354/
>
> > > > > On Feb 2, 8:45 pm, Forrest  wrote:
>
> > > > > > How capable are the Schwalbe Marathon Supremes for mild non-pavement
> > > > > > riding -- e.g., gravel roads, crushed rock rail trails, and the 
> > > > > > like?
> > > > > > Thanks,  -- Forrest (in immediate-post-blizzard Iowa City)- Hide 
> > > > > > quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Pasela sidewall failure: Damage or manufacturing defect?

[doug peterson]

Gernot:

The 35 mm Paselas that came stock on my Atlantis suffered a lot of
sidewall cuts that I know were caused by rocks, etc, while off-
roading.  I never had a blowout but when the rear wore out I replaced
both with T-serves & had no further sidewall damage.  Since then, I
use Schwalbe Marathon Supremes and get no flats, long life and no
sidewall problems.  The T-serves cost a bit more than Paselas and of
course the Schwalbes about double.

dougP

On Feb 2, 9:42 pm, Earl Grey  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I bought a pair of 35x700C non-TG Paselas in June from Harris Cyclery,
> and put them on my secondary bike for a couple of rides, and then
> replaced them with some 40mm tires I bought later. Recently I put them
> on my Sam for a 100km mixed surface ride since the 40s don't fit under
> the Sam's fenders, and I wanted something wider than the Jack Browns I
> usually run on the Sam. When I mounted the Paselas, I noticed that a
> few of the thin flaps of rubber were still attached to the centerline
> of the front tire, indicating marginal use.
>
> The Paselas were great on the ride, but halfway through the ride I
> noticed a bulge in the sidewall:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/25150892@N08/5412055821/
>
> There are really 2 parallel bulges, one of which has progressed to
> frayed strands, and both line up with a slight wiggle in the line of
> the black rubber compound, potentially indicating (?) that these
> bulges were already there when the black tread was applied to the
> tire. The other photos show the condition of the tread to demonstrate
> degree of tire usage.
>
> Has anyone had similar experiences with Paselas? Can you tell me
> whether you think this is a defect or caused by damage (I was riding
> dirt roads, but with no rocks). I bought two Paselas, one of which has
> a more subtle, smaller decal, while the other has a larger logo with
> jaggy edges. Was there a recent batch that had sidewall issues? (The
> one with the problem is the one with the more subtle, presumably older
> logo).
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> Gernot

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[RBW] Re: Tech Feature: The Work Of Wheel Energy | Cyclingnews.com

[doug peterson]

Lab confirmation of BQ's results from their road tests a while back.
Good stuff.

dougP

On Feb 3, 10:21 am, Eric Norris  wrote:
> Saw this on the Randon list and thought it would be of interest here.  Basic 
> conclusion is that wider tires roll faster than narrow tires, based on 
> extensive lab testing.
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/tech-feature-the-work-of-wheel-en...
>
> --Eric Norriswww.campyonly.com
> campyonlyguy.blogspot.com

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[RBW] Re: Tires for 26" wheel Atlantis

[doug peterson]

We put Panaracer Urban Max 26 x 1.25" on my wife's 47 cm Atlantis.
She likes them.  Got them at local Performance.

dougP

On Feb 7, 5:49 pm, William  wrote:
> I'm happy with the Soma New Express which has a pasela tread, and made
> by panaracer.  I run 650B, but Soma offers it in 26x1.25 and 26x1.75.
> Merry Sales is the distributor so your preferred local bike shop can
> get them for you.
>
> On Feb 7, 5:21 pm, Anne Paulson  wrote:
>
>
>
> > I've always used Panaracer Pasela 26 x 1.25 for my all-around
> > Atlantis. But now, Rivendell no longer carries them-- in fact the only
> > 26" tire Rivendell has right now is the Schwalbe Marathon GreenGuard,
> > and (a) I don't want something that wide and (b) why would I buy a
> > tire that I can't get on the bike?
>
> > So, does anyone have a suggestion of where to get Paselas, or a
> > suggestion of a similar tire that I could buy?
>
> > --
> > -- Anne Paulson
>
> > My hovercraft is full of eels- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Barsack reveiws?

[doug peterson]

No experience with the Barsack & hope some owners chime in.  But to a
couple of your general questions:

Front load concerns are over-blown.  I have an Acorn Boxy Rando
(similar bag) on my Atlantis & it lives there.  Seldom empty &
wonderfully useful.  I lover having access right in front of me to
food, camera, glasses, jacket, etc.  For tours I like to put more
weight on the front than rear, similar to your loading of your
Bomba.

A largish front bag can swallow enough stuff to affect handling but
it's a quick adjustment & hardly an issue.  Same with strong
crosswinds.  Yes, you may notice it but it's no big deal and not going
to ruin your ride.

dougP

On Feb 8, 2:17 pm, bassandbike  wrote:
> My research in the archives show some posting traffic on the Sackville
> Barsack almost one year ago to the day.  It's time for a 1 year
> review!
>
> I've always liked this bag's looks and I'm a MASSIVE Sackville guy.
> Sackville stuff is the truth.
>
> So I'm wondering how the bag performs?  What improvements would you
> make? Being that the load rides *kinda high*, what can be said about
> bike handling?  Are front load concerns overblown? My guess is that
> they are, and that the bag works great for whatever purpose it is
> tasked to. I put the majority of the my touring load on the fork of my
> Bomba and it rolls no problemo.  As I told a friend, I never find
> myself saying, "geez this load is really hosing up the handling of
> this here Rivendell Bombadil."
>
> What do Barsack owners think?  Touring? Rando? Grocery?
>
> I'm on the fence at the moment.  I need a front bag.  I like the idea
> of mounting to a front rack, but the headtube of my 67cm Hilsen is so
> stinking long.  Would a rack mounted Berthoud be accessible?  Would
> the map case be readable?
>
> All those issues are solved by the Barsack.
>
> Do tell!
>
> Patrick
> Louisville, Ky.
>
> PS:  I really want a tweed one bad.

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[RBW] Re: SoCal Riv Ride - Feb 12 in SD

[doug peterson]

Pumped up the tires on the Atlantis just a couple of weeks ago so
they're probably just right for this ride.  3 water bottles plus
groceries in the Acorn & I'll be ready to go.  Looking forward to
seeing the paint job on the Protovelo.

dougP

On Feb 7, 9:46 pm, Michael_S  wrote:
> the Ram is fairly dusty still (from all the dirt trails) but I will be
> there BaE @ 1000am ( earlier no doubt).  Nice to have a bail out
> option in case the body doesn't perform as expected too. That week in
> the Yucatan didn't help my training regimen nor did the cold I picked
> up down there.
> ~Mike
>
> On Feb 7, 9:12 pm, cyclotourist  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Gentle-Folk of the Wheel, this is your friendly reminder to drop everything
> > and get out for a ride this Saturday!  Should be 70 and Sunny, so no
> > excuses.  There's a good bail out option if the mileage and or distance
> > seems too much.  Yours truly might have to consider that as I spent the last
> > two weekends earning spousal credit points rather than doing intervals as
> > suggested.
>
> > More conversation including directions, links to maps and que sheets over on
> > flickr:http://www.flickr.com/groups/socal_rivendell_bicycle_appreciation_soc...
>
> > Hope to see a bunch of you there!  Maybe bring a six pack of your fave
> > beverage for post-ride celebration!
>
> > On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 11:17 AM, Esteban  wrote:
> > > Folks - This is going to be a real treat.  Some of the attributes of
> > > our back country are: 1) fairly close to downtown San Diego - our
> > > starting point is about 12 miles east of the gleaming waterfront; 2)
> > > Its really wild out there on the trails - no spa-style hikers and dog
> > > walkers (no offense intended), just rugged country and surprising
> > > wilderness; 3) wide open country roads with breathtaking vistas of the
> > > mountains, Mexico, desert, ocean, etc.  This will be completely worth
> > > the trip. Here's the photoset of the ride that Dustin curated last
> > > year:
>
> > >http://www.flickr.com/photos/25671211@N02/sets/72157623972790726/
>
> > > This ride won't be quite as alpine, but we have good beer here, too
> > > (the famous, tiny, Alpine Brewery is not far off this route), and I'm
> > > sure we'll include some in our activities for the day if you wish to
> > > partake.
>
> > > I'm hoping to run the freshly-painted Protovelo with Hetres, topped
> > > perhaps by Albatross bars for pure fun.  We'll see.
>
> > > No one's left behind, but there will be bail-out options.  Would be
> > > worth a trip for disaster-prone Southern California-ians.  Perhaps
> > > worth a trip for folks further out!
>
> > > Esteban
> > > San Diego, Calif.
>
> > > On Jan 4, 10:08 am, cyclotourist  wrote:
> > > > February's planned ride lets us get inland a bit, as well as giving the
> > > SD
> > > > crowd have a break from traveling (the price of living in paradise).
> > >  It's
> > > > shaping up to be a 50+ mile mixie, over mostly back roads and ~30% dirt
> > > > content guaranteed.  A chunk of climbing, so work on those intervals!
> > >  Hope
> > > > the North LA & Ventura crowd can make it down there!  We're going to try
> > > to
> > > > meet up @ 9:00 to get on the road by 9:30
>
> > > > A route map and some more specifics can be seen here:
> > >http://www.flickr.com/groups/socal_rivendell_bicycle_appreciation_soc...
>
> > > > As with all these rides, expect to meet some really great folks and put
> > > > faces to  names, as well as to see some beautiful areas of SoCal that 
> > > > you
> > > > probably have never been to!  All bikes are welcome, aluminum, bamboo 
> > > > and
> > > > crabon. Run what you brung!  Rain or shine, unless there's one of the
> > > recent
> > > > "decade" storms we've been having.  Otherwise fenders and wool should
> > > handle
> > > > it nicely.
>
> > > > --
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > David
> > > > Redlands, CA
>
> > > > *...in terms of recreational cycling there are many riders who would
> > > > probably benefit more from
> > > > improving their taste than from improving their performance.* - RTMS
>
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> > > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > > For more options, visit this group at
> > >http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>
> > --
> > Cheers,
> > David
> > Redlands, CA
>
> > *...in terms of recreational cycling there are many riders who would
> > probably benefit more from
> > improving their taste than from improving their performance.* - RTMS- Hide 
> > quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: SoCal Riv Ride - Feb 12 in SD

[doug peterson]

Jim:

Same old 35 mm Marathon Supremes as before.  Got a brand new set of
40s from Riv a while back but too lazy to change tires right now.
Besides, the 35s still have tread showing!  No worries.

I think anything made in a 40 should be tough enough.  In my case, I'm
the weak link; the bike & tires can handle things I can't.

dougP

On Feb 8, 2:11 pm, James Warren  wrote:
> What tires, Doug? I think I'm going Marathon Extreme 700x40. Under Silver 
> sidepulls on Hillborne with Bullmoose! 12-36 rear cassette. I'm pretty 
> excited. We'll see if my 1300 ft. daily climb over the past month and a half 
> will be enough.
>
> -Jim W.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> >From: doug peterson 
> >Sent: Feb 8, 2011 2:48 PM
> >To: RBW Owners Bunch 
> >Subject: [RBW] Re: SoCal Riv Ride - Feb 12 in SD
>
> >Pumped up the tires on the Atlantis just a couple of weeks ago so
> >they're probably just right for this ride.  3 water bottles plus
> >groceries in the Acorn & I'll be ready to go.  Looking forward to
> >seeing the paint job on the Protovelo.
>
> >dougP
>
> >On Feb 7, 9:46 pm, Michael_S  wrote:
> >> the Ram is fairly dusty still (from all the dirt trails) but I will be
> >> there BaE @ 1000am ( earlier no doubt).  Nice to have a bail out
> >> option in case the body doesn't perform as expected too. That week in
> >> the Yucatan didn't help my training regimen nor did the cold I picked
> >> up down there.
> >> ~Mike
>
> >> On Feb 7, 9:12 pm, cyclotourist  wrote:
>
> >> > Gentle-Folk of the Wheel, this is your friendly reminder to drop 
> >> > everything
> >> > and get out for a ride this Saturday!  Should be 70 and Sunny, so no
> >> > excuses.  There's a good bail out option if the mileage and or distance
> >> > seems too much.  Yours truly might have to consider that as I spent the 
> >> > last
> >> > two weekends earning spousal credit points rather than doing intervals as
> >> > suggested.
>
> >> > More conversation including directions, links to maps and que sheets 
> >> > over on
> >> > flickr:http://www.flickr.com/groups/socal_rivendell_bicycle_appreciation_soc...
>
> >> > Hope to see a bunch of you there!  Maybe bring a six pack of your fave
> >> > beverage for post-ride celebration!
>
> >> > On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 11:17 AM, Esteban  wrote:
> >> > > Folks - This is going to be a real treat.  Some of the attributes of
> >> > > our back country are: 1) fairly close to downtown San Diego - our
> >> > > starting point is about 12 miles east of the gleaming waterfront; 2)
> >> > > Its really wild out there on the trails - no spa-style hikers and dog
> >> > > walkers (no offense intended), just rugged country and surprising
> >> > > wilderness; 3) wide open country roads with breathtaking vistas of the
> >> > > mountains, Mexico, desert, ocean, etc.  This will be completely worth
> >> > > the trip. Here's the photoset of the ride that Dustin curated last
> >> > > year:
>
> >> > >http://www.flickr.com/photos/25671211@N02/sets/72157623972790726/
>
> >> > > This ride won't be quite as alpine, but we have good beer here, too
> >> > > (the famous, tiny, Alpine Brewery is not far off this route), and I'm
> >> > > sure we'll include some in our activities for the day if you wish to
> >> > > partake.
>
> >> > > I'm hoping to run the freshly-painted Protovelo with Hetres, topped
> >> > > perhaps by Albatross bars for pure fun.  We'll see.
>
> >> > > No one's left behind, but there will be bail-out options.  Would be
> >> > > worth a trip for disaster-prone Southern California-ians.  Perhaps
> >> > > worth a trip for folks further out!
>
> >> > > Esteban
> >> > > San Diego, Calif.
>
> >> > > On Jan 4, 10:08 am, cyclotourist  wrote:
> >> > > > February's planned ride lets us get inland a bit, as well as giving 
> >> > > > the
> >> > > SD
> >> > > > crowd have a break from traveling (the price of living in paradise).
> >> > >  It's
> >> > > > shaping up to be a 50+ mile mixie, over mostly back roads and ~30% 
> >> > > > dirt
> >> > > > content guaranteed.  A chunk of climbing, so work on those intervals!
&

[RBW] Re: Barsack reveiws?

[doug peterson]

 How many eels can you fit in there?


Dozens. You'd be amazed. All wriggling around in the bag. Plus a
jacket, a quart of milk and a lunch.

--
-- Anne Paulson

The source of Anne's handling issues has been ID'd.

dougP


On Feb 8, 4:30 pm, Bruce  wrote:
> How many eels can you fit in there?
>
> 
> From: Anne Paulson 
> To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 6:21:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Barsack reveiws?
>
> In contrast, the large Saddlesack mounted on my (other) Atlantis lives
> there. It ROCKS. It frequently swallows up an enormous amount of
> stuff.
>
> --
> -- Anne Paulson
>
> My hovercraft is full of eels

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[RBW] Re: Vintage Grant Bicycle Great Condition

[doug peterson]

This was an early Grant design, shortly before he joined B'stone.  The
Caprice was a companion bike to go along with the Chevrolet Caprice of
the same era, predating the Trek / VW alliance.

GOTCHA!

dougP

On Feb 9, 8:03 am, Montclair BobbyB  wrote:
> Of course he didn't, but it's way too funny to abandon... sorry...
>
> On Feb 9, 10:47 am, Seth Vidal  wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Montclair BobbyB
>
> >  wrote:
> > > ...must be president of the "Society of Outrageous Claims"... (by the
> > > way, the Vice President is Al "I invented the internet" Gore)
>
> > sorry, can't let it go.
>
> >http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp
>
> > and
>
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_misconceptions#Inventions
>
> > -sv- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Barsack reveiws?

[doug peterson]

Patrick:

Map cases are quite handy.  If the bag doesn't include one, I've used
a pencil case such as fits in a 3 ring notebook.  They're fairly
waterproof, have mounting holes and are cheap.

dougP

On Feb 9, 6:25 am, bassandbike  wrote:
> Great information everyone. Thank you so much.
>
> Ami (and John, if you're watching),  with your Acorns, do you ever
> stuff a map in the top and use it Rando style?  I have some pretty
> crazy mixed terrain rides coming up and I will need access to a cue
> sheet.   Wondering specifically how useful the mapcase functionality
> is from that distance
>
> There is also a super tall Berthoudbut not sure I can stretch for
> the 400 or so bucks it will take to put the thing on (with racks,
> supports, etc).
>
> This list rules.  Such a wealth of information.
>
> Patrick
>
> On Feb 8, 9:07 pm, AmiSingh  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Patrick,
>
> > I ride a 69cm A Homer Hilsen and find that the reach to a front rack
> > bag is fine.
>
> > You can check photos of the Mark's Rack and Boxy Rando Bag from Acorn
> > on my Flickr account here for you to get a good idea of what the setup
> > looks like:
>
> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/amisingh/5330477847/in/pool-1602994@N21/
>
> > They're also used on John's 67 AHH here:
>
> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/32919632@N04/4405075646/
>
> > Hope this helps --
>
> > Ami- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Should I fret over crashed h'bars?

[doug peterson]

Ray:

Bummer about the crash.  As to your concerns, I'd err on the side of
caution & replace the bars.  I've had 2 friends have their h'bars snap
off, one suffering a separated shoulder in the process.  For $50, it's
cheap insurance.

Aren't cranks & stems forged?  That would  make them much tougher to
damage, plus they are solid, beefy parts compared to the tubing used
for h'bars.  Those I wouldn't worry about.

dougP

On Feb 12, 10:01 am, Ray  wrote:
> My avid cycling neighbor was commiserating with me over my recent bike
> crash (I broke a collar bone and cracked four ribs) and told me about
> the time he hit a rough spot too hard on his recumbent and his
> aluminum downtube snapped completely in half. That got me to start
> fretting over the condition of my aluminum handlebars.
>
> I crashed while riding my canti-Romulus. The bike actually faired very
> well, all things considered. Like me, it suffered some substantial
> road rash, but unlike me, nothing else was bent or broken.  Now, I'm
> thinking I should scrap the Nitto noodles just to be on the safe side.
> The handlebars are not bent, but they did get jammed into a tight spot
> between the asphalt and the bottom of a steel guard rail and both bar-
> end pods are torn up and the taping is scrappy and cut. I'm thinking
> maybe some hairline crack that as-of-now I can't see will
> catastrophically fail on me.  Should I replace, or just re-wrap?  Am I
> under-estimating the Nitto heat-treating process?
>
> While I'm on the subject, should I have the same concern for the right-
> side Sugino crank arm?

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[RBW] Re: Another Rivendell... which one?

[doug peterson]

Jim:

I'm partial to the Atlantis since that's what I ride.  As others have
pointed out, Bomba, Hunqa or Atlantis can all be set-up as equally
competent country / off-road bikes for what you describe.  For the
3,000 acres of country riding, I'd want seriouly chubby tires, and
would make a choice based on whatever takes the biggest tire you plan
on using.

dougP

On Feb 13, 7:41 am, JimP  wrote:
> I have  a Sam Hillborne which I love, I ordered it with a 56 cm frame
> and, as it turns out, I should have ordered the 54. Even so, it rides
> like a dream. I have a farm located about 200 miles from home. It is
> difficult to carry the bike back and forth without taking two cars so,
> ahem... I have an excuse to buy another Rivendell. :^)
> To be honest I really want an A. Homer Hilson but I do realize it is
> very similar (functionally identical) to the Hillborne. That's OK as
> the two bikes will be at different locations but I should at least
> give thought to another type Rivendell, maybe an Atlantis, a Rodeo,
> Ramboulet or... What do you think?
>
> I am 60 yo and have really just gotten into cycling. At home I ride
> around the city just absorbing the beauty of being outdoors in a
> wonderful old city. I take a camera sometimes and like photographing
> some of the beauty (including bike) around me. But, mostly I just
> enjoy the ride. I usually ride for about 40 minutes to an hour and
> head back home. At the Farm I have access to about 3000 acres of
> pastures and hardwood forests with horse trails and, no trails at all.
> I want to explore this area with my bike again, just enjoying the
> scenery and being outside alone with nature.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> best,
>
> JimP

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[RBW] Re: GP 37 Signals Interview

[doug peterson]

Maybe the reincarnation of the Universal Japanese Bicycle (UJB) of the
80s?  Simple lugs, plain tubes, medium reach sidepull brakes?
Bridgestone for the 21st century?  I like the idea of selling raw
frames & you just do your own thing for paint; rattle can, powder
coat, etc.  Cyclart & Joe Bell probably won't see many of these, tho.

dougP

On Feb 12, 6:14 pm, EricP  wrote:
> Could be an interesting bike.  I for one, wouldn't mind leaving the
> double butted tubing behind if that can get the price down.  And mebbe
> only one bottle?  But from the responses, appears the bike is well
> along. Those type of decisions have already been made.
>
> Anywho, the price mentioned doesn't seem to be too cheap for a
> commuter bike.  But, yeah, bigga tire clearance.  Gotta be able to put
> studded tires on for winter commuting/riding.  700x40 or 26x1.75 and
> fenders.
>
> Eric Platt
> St. Paul, MN
>
> On Feb 12, 3:43 pm, newenglandbike  wrote:
>
>
>
> > The commuter bike frameset sounds like it will be a hit:
>
> > "Since it’ll be a Riv, it has to be lugged and steel; and as a
> > commuter bike, it should be tough and affordable. So we plan to use
> > cheap good tubing (all CrMo), and go down & dirty in the details when
> > fancying them up wouldn’t add function; and then sell it primered but
> > not painted..
>
> > frame fork headset; 48, 55, 60 (for 26, 26, and 700c respectively);
> > 55mm (target), and 52mm at least- -the difficulty and compromises ramp
> > up dramatically when you need clearance for 60s, which was the
> > original plan —although the front will take a 60, co you can
> > chopperize it!"
>
> > Awesome!
>
> > -Matt- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: SoCal Riv Ride - Feb 12 in SD

[doug peterson]

Sorry I had to leave before the main group finished.  That was so much
fun we need to start planning the next event.  Hey, everyone must have
gotten the tire thing worked out:  ZERO flats, right?

dougP

On Feb 13, 8:03 am, cyclotourist  wrote:
> And once again, we've been able to have another great ride in SoCal!
> Yesterday we had 10 riders, which was a really good showing.  Five were
> local to SD, the rest had to drive a couple hours to get there.  The route
> was a combination of suburban roads, country back-roads, graded dirt roads,
> sections of single track, rutted and eroded hike-a-bike, seven mile
> uninterrupted downhills @ 30 mph, and rural country stores/used car lots.
>
> Pix to prove we were there:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/
>
> Huge THANKS to Dustin for planning the route and hosting us at his house!  A
> great meal of Nepalese food was waiting at the end for us!!!  Good stuff!
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 3:16 PM, doug peterson  wrote:
> > Jim:
>
> > Same old 35 mm Marathon Supremes as before.  Got a brand new set of
> > 40s from Riv a while back but too lazy to change tires right now.
> > Besides, the 35s still have tread showing!  No worries.
>
> > I think anything made in a 40 should be tough enough.  In my case, I'm
> > the weak link; the bike & tires can handle things I can't.
>
> > dougP
>
> > On Feb 8, 2:11 pm, James Warren  wrote:
> > > What tires, Doug? I think I'm going Marathon Extreme 700x40. Under Silver
> > sidepulls on Hillborne with Bullmoose! 12-36 rear cassette. I'm pretty
> > excited. We'll see if my 1300 ft. daily climb over the past month and a half
> > will be enough.
>
> > > -Jim W.
>
> > > -Original Message-
> > > >From: doug peterson 
> > > >Sent: Feb 8, 2011 2:48 PM
> > > >To: RBW Owners Bunch 
> > > >Subject: [RBW] Re: SoCal Riv Ride - Feb 12 in SD
>
> > > >Pumped up the tires on the Atlantis just a couple of weeks ago so
> > > >they're probably just right for this ride.  3 water bottles plus
> > > >groceries in the Acorn & I'll be ready to go.  Looking forward to
> > > >seeing the paint job on the Protovelo.
>
> > > >dougP
>
> > > >On Feb 7, 9:46 pm, Michael_S  wrote:
> > > >> the Ram is fairly dusty still (from all the dirt trails) but I will be
> > > >> there BaE @ 1000am ( earlier no doubt).  Nice to have a bail out
> > > >> option in case the body doesn't perform as expected too. That week in
> > > >> the Yucatan didn't help my training regimen nor did the cold I picked
> > > >> up down there.
> > > >> ~Mike
>
> > > >> On Feb 7, 9:12 pm, cyclotourist  wrote:
>
> > > >> > Gentle-Folk of the Wheel, this is your friendly reminder to drop
> > everything
> > > >> > and get out for a ride this Saturday!  Should be 70 and Sunny, so no
> > > >> > excuses.  There's a good bail out option if the mileage and or
> > distance
> > > >> > seems too much.  Yours truly might have to consider that as I spent
> > the last
> > > >> > two weekends earning spousal credit points rather than doing
> > intervals as
> > > >> > suggested.
>
> > > >> > More conversation including directions, links to maps and que sheets
> > over on
> > > >> > flickr:
> >http://www.flickr.com/groups/socal_rivendell_bicycle_appreciation_soc...
>
> > > >> > Hope to see a bunch of you there!  Maybe bring a six pack of your
> > fave
> > > >> > beverage for post-ride celebration!
>
> > > >> > On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 11:17 AM, Esteban 
> > wrote:
> > > >> > > Folks - This is going to be a real treat.  Some of the attributes
> > of
> > > >> > > our back country are: 1) fairly close to downtown San Diego - our
> > > >> > > starting point is about 12 miles east of the gleaming waterfront;
> > 2)
> > > >> > > Its really wild out there on the trails - no spa-style hikers and
> > dog
> > > >> > > walkers (no offense intended), just rugged country and surprising
> > > >> > > wilderness; 3) wide open country roads with breathtaking vistas of
> > the
> > > >> > > mountains, Mexico, desert, ocean, etc.  This will be completely
> > worth
> > > >> > > the trip. Here's the photose

[RBW] Re: SoCal Riv Ride - Feb 12 in SD

[doug peterson]

Some of the most interesting "roads" aren't paved.  And we saw some
pretty interesting stuff yesterday!

You're correct David; your tire was just low, not flat.

dougP

On Feb 13, 5:53 pm, cyclotourist  wrote:
> That's my favorite response!!!
>
> On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 3:39 PM, Michael_S wrote:
>
>
>
> > I was a little worried in riding the rock gardens on the 2nd half of
> > the ride on the Jack Brown greensDustin led us on on some pretty
> > rough stuff... but I escaped with nary a scratch.   Some hiker we
> > passed was pretty amazed we were on that trail on "road" bikes.
>
> > ~Mike
>
> > On Feb 13, 1:45 pm, cyclotourist  wrote:
> > > How 'bout "Zero flat repairs"?  Slow leaks that had to be topped off
> > don't
> > > count!  :-)
>
> > > On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 1:16 PM, doug peterson 
> > wrote:
> > > > Sorry I had to leave before the main group finished.  That was so much
> > > > fun we need to start planning the next event.  Hey, everyone must have
> > > > gotten the tire thing worked out:  ZERO flats, right?
>
> > > > dougP
>
> > > > On Feb 13, 8:03 am, cyclotourist  wrote:
> > > > > And once again, we've been able to have another great ride in SoCal!
> > > > > Yesterday we had 10 riders, which was a really good showing.  Five
> > were
> > > > > local to SD, the rest had to drive a couple hours to get there.  The
> > > > route
> > > > > was a combination of suburban roads, country back-roads, graded dirt
> > > > roads,
> > > > > sections of single track, rutted and eroded hike-a-bike, seven mile
> > > > > uninterrupted downhills @ 30 mph, and rural country stores/used car
> > lots.
>
> > > > > Pix to prove we were there:
> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/
>
> > > > > Huge THANKS to Dustin for planning the route and hosting us at his
> > house!
> > > >  A
> > > > > great meal of Nepalese food was waiting at the end for us!!!  Good
> > stuff!
>
> > > > > On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 3:16 PM, doug peterson 
> > wrote:
> > > > > > Jim:
>
> > > > > > Same old 35 mm Marathon Supremes as before.  Got a brand new set of
> > > > > > 40s from Riv a while back but too lazy to change tires right now.
> > > > > > Besides, the 35s still have tread showing!  No worries.
>
> > > > > > I think anything made in a 40 should be tough enough.  In my case,
> > I'm
> > > > > > the weak link; the bike & tires can handle things I can't.
>
> > > > > > dougP
>
> > > > > > On Feb 8, 2:11 pm, James Warren  wrote:
> > > > > > > What tires, Doug? I think I'm going Marathon Extreme 700x40.
> > Under
> > > > Silver
> > > > > > sidepulls on Hillborne with Bullmoose! 12-36 rear cassette. I'm
> > pretty
> > > > > > excited. We'll see if my 1300 ft. daily climb over the past month
> > and a
> > > > half
> > > > > > will be enough.
>
> > > > > > > -Jim W.
>
> > > > > > > -Original Message-
> > > > > > > >From: doug peterson 
> > > > > > > >Sent: Feb 8, 2011 2:48 PM
> > > > > > > >To: RBW Owners Bunch 
> > > > > > > >Subject: [RBW] Re: SoCal Riv Ride - Feb 12 in SD
>
> > > > > > > >Pumped up the tires on the Atlantis just a couple of weeks ago
> > so
> > > > > > > >they're probably just right for this ride.  3 water bottles plus
> > > > > > > >groceries in the Acorn & I'll be ready to go.  Looking forward
> > to
> > > > > > > >seeing the paint job on the Protovelo.
>
> > > > > > > >dougP
>
> > > > > > > >On Feb 7, 9:46 pm, Michael_S  wrote:
> > > > > > > >> the Ram is fairly dusty still (from all the dirt trails) but I
> > > > will be
> > > > > > > >> there BaE @ 1000am ( earlier no doubt).  Nice to have a bail
> > out
> > > > > > > >> option in case the body doesn't perform as expected too. That
> > week
> > > > in
> > > > > > > >> the Yucatan didn't help my training regimen nor did the cold I

[RBW] Atlantis BB question

[doug peterson]

Just puttering about with the new-to-us minilantis today & decided to
check the BB.  Bike is used, several years old but few miles.  BB
seems a bit "notchy" & not smooth like new.  I have a spare, new
Shimano UN 54 in 113 mm size.  Pull the original & it's 116 mm Tange.
Both for 68 mm shell.  Pop in the 113 and the spindle binds when the
lock ring is tightened.  Weird.  Put the 116 back in & no binding.
Several iterations of removing & replacing, checking both units for
differences, trying both offside rings (aluminum) with both BBs & I'm
baffled.

When I replaced the BB in my 03 Atlantis a couple of years ago, I
replaced the 116 with a 110, don't recall if Tange or Shimano but it
just went in with no problems.

As far as I know, Tange & Shimano are interchangeable.  What am I
missing?  I guess you're never too old to learn something new.

dougP

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis BB question

[doug peterson]

Mystery solved - it's the ID of the lock ring.

The original Tange BBs came with an aluminum ring that measures
nominally 23 mm ID where it contacts the cartridge.  Shimano uses a
plastic ring measuring 24.5 mm at the same point.  Attempting to use
the Tange lockring on a Shimano cartridge places an end load on the
cartridge as the ring is tightened.

When I replaced the original, Riv installed BB on my Atlantis (after
5-6 years and 20,000 miles ??), I recall being wary of the plastic
lock ring but figuring I'd use what came with the Shimano BB.  I hung
onto the original aluminum one "just in case".  Yesterday I was
attempting to re-use the Tange aluminum lockring with the new Shimano
cartridge, hence the binding.

So Shimano & Tange are interchangeable, but can't be mixed & matched.
If the plastic lockring gives trouble I'll just file out the aluminum
lockring to give clearance.

dougP

On Feb 14, 7:25 am, Jon Jandoc  wrote:
> Did you check to make sure the bolt holding the cable guide under the bottom 
> bracket isn't interfering?
>
> Jon Jandoc
> Los Angeles, CA
>
> On Feb 13, 2011, at 8:06 PM, doug peterson wrote:
>
>
>
> > Just puttering about with the new-to-us minilantis today & decided to
> > check the BB.  Bike is used, several years old but few miles.  BB
> > seems a bit "notchy" & not smooth like new.  I have a spare, new
> > Shimano UN 54 in 113 mm size.  Pull the original & it's 116 mm Tange.
> > Both for 68 mm shell.  Pop in the 113 and the spindle binds when the
> > lock ring is tightened.  Weird.  Put the 116 back in & no binding.
> > Several iterations of removing & replacing, checking both units for
> > differences, trying both offside rings (aluminum) with both BBs & I'm
> > baffled.
>
> > When I replaced the BB in my 03 Atlantis a couple of years ago, I
> > replaced the 116 with a 110, don't recall if Tange or Shimano but it
> > just went in with no problems.
>
> > As far as I know, Tange & Shimano are interchangeable.  What am I
> > missing?  I guess you're never too old to learn something new.
>
> > dougP
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group 
> > athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: SoCal Riv Ride - Feb 12 in SD

[doug peterson]

John:

That would be it.  Mile 29.4 is where David, Jenny & I bailed out.  We
took the left while the rest of the group continued on the route.  You
can see how that connects to the outbound route around 15.  We then
headed back up course & made a left at the intersection that's 12.7
outbound & 44.7 returning. We got a total of 42 for the shorter
version.

Carry plenty of food & water.  Take a look at the posted photos.  We
had some high quality hike-a-bike sections.  Caution:  Hills may be
steeper than they apperar in photos!  Great ride.

When do you plan to be in San Diego?  I'm a bit north, Orange County,
but get down there often.  Maybe we could do this ride; I'm curious
about the part I missed.

dougP

On Feb 14, 7:47 pm, John Speare  wrote:
> Can someone who went on the ride verify that this is the map for the 
> route:http://ridewithgps.com/routes/252276
>
> I'll be in SD in April and this sounds like a perfect day ride.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 7:35 AM, Esteban  wrote:
> > I have some photos up from my camera phone - and a write-up on the
> > blog:
>
> >http://veloflaneur.wordpress.com/2011/02/14/all-tires-welcome/
>
> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/25671211@N02/sets/72157625919265243/
>
> > The route is worth studying for anyone planning a vacation in San
> > Diego. Wow!  Thanks, Dustin!
>
> > Esteban
> > San Diego, Calif.
>
> > On Feb 13, 7:55 pm, doug peterson  wrote:
> > > Some of the most interesting "roads" aren't paved.  And we saw some
> > > pretty interesting stuff yesterday!
>
> > > You're correct David; your tire was just low, not flat.
>
> > > dougP
>
> > > On Feb 13, 5:53 pm, cyclotourist  wrote:
>
> > > > That's my favorite response!!!
>
> > > > On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 3:39 PM, Michael_S  > >wrote:
>
> > > > > I was a little worried in riding the rock gardens on the 2nd half of
> > > > > the ride on the Jack Brown greensDustin led us on on some pretty
> > > > > rough stuff... but I escaped with nary a scratch.   Some hiker we
> > > > > passed was pretty amazed we were on that trail on "road" bikes.
>
> > > > > ~Mike
>
> > > > > On Feb 13, 1:45 pm, cyclotourist  wrote:
> > > > > > How 'bout "Zero flat repairs"?  Slow leaks that had to be topped
> > off
> > > > > don't
> > > > > > count!  :-)
>
> > > > > > On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 1:16 PM, doug peterson 
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > Sorry I had to leave before the main group finished.  That was so
> > much
> > > > > > > fun we need to start planning the next event.  Hey, everyone must
> > have
> > > > > > > gotten the tire thing worked out:  ZERO flats, right?
>
> > > > > > > dougP
>
> > > > > > > On Feb 13, 8:03 am, cyclotourist  wrote:
> > > > > > > > And once again, we've been able to have another great ride in
> > SoCal!
> > > > > > > > Yesterday we had 10 riders, which was a really good showing.
> >  Five
> > > > > were
> > > > > > > > local to SD, the rest had to drive a couple hours to get there.
> >  The
> > > > > > > route
> > > > > > > > was a combination of suburban roads, country back-roads, graded
> > dirt
> > > > > > > roads,
> > > > > > > > sections of single track, rutted and eroded hike-a-bike, seven
> > mile
> > > > > > > > uninterrupted downhills @ 30 mph, and rural country stores/used
> > car
> > > > > lots.
>
> > > > > > > > Pix to prove we were there:
> > > > >http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/
>
> > > > > > > > Huge THANKS to Dustin for planning the route and hosting us at
> > his
> > > > > house!
> > > > > > >  A
> > > > > > > > great meal of Nepalese food was waiting at the end for us!!!
> >  Good
> > > > > stuff!
>
> > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 3:16 PM, doug peterson <
> > dougpn...@cox.net>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Jim:
>
> > > > > > > > > Same old 35 mm Marathon Supremes as before.  Got a brand new
> > set of
> > > > > > > > > 40s from Riv a

[RBW] Re: Another Rivendell... which one?

[doug peterson]

Best excuse I've heard in a long time; gotta keep that in mind except
we don't have dogs.

As to the stair thing, any bike is a hassle to lug up & down stairs.
They are kinda cumbersome even if light.  A typical Riv set up
suitable for country rambling is going to be at least 25 lbs and
probably closer to 30.  My Atlantis is always around 30 & I frequently
hike down some stairs at a Metrolink station.  It's only a long single
flight & that's plenty.  Bikes & stairs just don't work too well
together.

dougP

On Feb 14, 8:41 am, Jim Phillips  wrote:
> Hard to explain but we take 5 dogs and luggage including astronomy gear. I 
> just prefer to have a second bike and not carry one back and forth. Perhaps 
> just an excuse.
>
> JimP
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 14, 2011, at 7:26 AM, MichaelH  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Pardon me, but could you help me understand why the bike wouldn't fit
> > on a hitch or roof rack?  Maybe all you need is a second set of wheels
> > and a nice Saris hitch rack?
>
> > michael
>
> > On Feb 13, 10:41 am, JimP  wrote:
> >> I have  a Sam Hillborne which I love, I ordered it with a 56 cm frame
> >> and, as it turns out, I should have ordered the 54. Even so, it rides
> >> like a dream. I have a farm located about 200 miles from home. It is
> >> difficult to carry the bike back and forth without taking two cars so,
> >> ahem... I have an excuse to buy another Rivendell. :^)
> >> To be honest I really want an A. Homer Hilson but I do realize it is
> >> very similar (functionally identical) to the Hillborne. That's OK as
> >> the two bikes will be at different locations but I should at least
> >> give thought to another type Rivendell, maybe an Atlantis, a Rodeo,
> >> Ramboulet or... What do you think?
>
> >> I am 60 yo and have really just gotten into cycling. At home I ride
> >> around the city just absorbing the beauty of being outdoors in a
> >> wonderful old city. I take a camera sometimes and like photographing
> >> some of the beauty (including bike) around me. But, mostly I just
> >> enjoy the ride. I usually ride for about 40 minutes to an hour and
> >> head back home. At the Farm I have access to about 3000 acres of
> >> pastures and hardwood forests with horse trails and, no trails at all.
> >> I want to explore this area with my bike again, just enjoying the
> >> scenery and being outside alone with nature.
>
> >> Any thoughts?
>
> >> best,
>
> >> JimP
>
> > --
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[RBW] Re: SoCal Shout-Out

[doug peterson]

Be aware that this is the weekend that Newport Beach & Irvine, and
maybe Laguna Beach, have chosen to educate bicyclists and motorists on
the finer points of the vehicle code, especially situations where cars
& bikes have conflicts.  Stop signs, right on a red, etc.  You'll
probably be OK in the AM but vulnerable to education when you return
to Irvine.

Irvine PD is known to scan the internet for cycling events and club
rides, stationing ticket crews in target rich areas.  They've also got
motorcycles with stealth coating that seem to appear from nowhere.
Keep your eyes peeled and at least make it look good.

dougP

On Feb 15, 3:11 pm, Eric Norris  wrote:
> Maybe we'll cross paths somewhere in San Diego County.  We ride down the 
> coast to Oceanside, then inland to Fallbrook before heading back to the coast.
>
> --Eric N
>
> On Feb 15, 2011, at 2:45 PM, Esteban  wrote:
>
>
>
> > If you cross paths with the SDR Corona 300K, I'll wave at you in the
> > rain from atop my Ebisu!
>
> > Esteban
> > San Diego, Calif.
>
> > On Feb 15, 2:41 pm, Eric Norris  wrote:
> >> I'll be riding my Riv Road rain or shine in the Camino Real Double Century 
> >> on Saturday.  Look for me and say hi if you happen to be on the road at 
> >> the same time!
>
> >> Info on the course is available 
> >> here:http://planetultra.com/butterfield/index.html
>
> >> --Eric N
>
> > --
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[RBW] Re: Don't tell me that a few lbs don't make a bloody difference!

[doug peterson]

> Wonderful what you can do with a single, fixed gear!

Not to mention a Dremel tool.  In the interest of full disclosure,
Patrick should have mentioned his addiction to removing extraneous
material from his bikes.

dougP

On Feb 15, 2:12 pm, PATRICK MOORE  wrote:
> The other Riv has even lighter wheels but the rider position is the
> same. I tell you, I do notice a difference in climbing. (I was
> carrying a full, stainless steel, double wall thermos.)
>
> It is the '99 650C gofast custom that I've posted about recently.
> Wonderful what you can do with a single, fixed gear!
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 3:04 PM, Kelly Sleeper  wrote:
> > 5 lbs means very little from my experience.   So the one built as a 
> > commuter .. Same tires wheels geometry bars handlebar height?
>
> > Add 5 lbs in water bottle on go fast and doubt you'll notice much.
>
> > But if all you're interested in is speed have fun.   A 2 to 3 mph average 
> > speed difference for me is nothing.
>
> > So what Rivendell did you build to 17ish pounds?
>
> > Kelly
>
> > Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 15, 2011, at 2:41 PM, PATRICK MOORE  wrote:
>
> >> I just got back from a nice if brief-ish 1 hour ride on the '99 Riv
> >> gofast, newly equipped with pretty Phil front hub (I have decided not
> >> to replace the computer -- just yet, anyway, but I guesstimate that I
> >> covered, easily, 23 miles over rolling, mostly suburban terrain).
> >> Anyway, I deliberately went out of my way to climb some steepish, 1/2
> >> mile long hills, mostly standing in the 75" gear, and blow me down, if
> >> I sped up those hills like ... like  like ... Oh! Like Bartali,
> >> shifting into a *higher* gear at the bottom of a steep climb, turning
> >> with a sneer and glare at his competition, and leaving them in his
> >> dust. Sortof.
>
> >> Anyway, the difference between this gofast that, now, without a
> >> computer, weighs a featherlite 17 3/4 lb, and the almost identical but
> >> built as a commuter '03, is about 5 lb, and I certainly can tell the
> >> difference on the hills.
>
> >> Just so you know.
>
> >> --
> >> Patrick Moore
> >> Albuquerque, NM
> >> For professional resumes, contact
> >> Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com
>
> >> --
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>
> > --
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>
> --
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> Albuquerque, NM
> For professional resumes, contact
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[RBW] Re: Don't tell me that a few lbs don't make a bloody difference!

[doug peterson]

> I certainly don't worry about butted or straight gauge spokes but an
> extra 10 lbs on the bike makes the day a lot less fun on a group
> ride.

Or an extra 10 lbs can make the day, if it's the right 10 lbs.
Chubbier tires to minimize flats, an extra water bottle, lots'o'food
(my favorite!) and of course a selection clothing and some place to
carrry it - I can see 10 lbs extra in that stuff.  OK, there's
probably a camera & phone, couple of maps, too much change, the odd
tool that I could probably ditch.  But if I was in a hurry I wouldn't
be on a bike.

Keep those reports coming Patrick; and don't forget the climate date
next time!

dougP


On Feb 15, 2:47 pm, Michael_S  wrote:
> To me it comes down to the purpose of my ride. Commuting/training
> solo ... weight doesn't matter. A fun day out riding with friends.. it
> matters just enough that I can stay comfortably with the group.
> I certainly don't worry about butted or straight gauge spokes but an
> extra 10 lbs on the bike makes the day a lot less fun on a group
> ride.
>
> ~Mike
>
> On Feb 15, 2:30 pm, PATRICK MOORE  wrote:
>
>
>
> > The voice, OK, but the legs?
>
> > For me, speed is not usually to get somewhere faster, it's because
> > riding fast has its own pleasures, and riding fast on a bike that
> > responds very well to efforts to ride fast adds to this pleasure.
>
> > One advantage, in the last two days, of removing the computer is that
> > I don't see a readout telling me that I am at a speed lower than the
> > theoretical average that I think I ought to maintain; this is
> > especially true in the first few miles. I think this allows me to warm
> > up properly and start pushing only when I feel warmed up. Anyway,
> > we'll see...
>
> > On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 3:21 PM, rperks  wrote:
> > > for some though that 3 mph is 16 or 13 mph, or about 23 minutes
> > > diference over the 29 miles - the difference between time a shower or
> > > no shower on your lunch break or before work?  and still having time
> > > to ride 29 miles.  I would take the speed over a shorter ride,
> > > especally if 8 of the miles in the middle of the ride were out in the
> > > country after you escape the clutches of suburbia and then have to re-
> > > enter
>
> > > Rock on Patrick - voice of speed
>
> > > Bikes get us from pont a to point b faster than walking.  That often
> > > why we ride them, otherwise just walk.  You do not have to be a racer
> > > boy all the time, but the talk around here lately has me wondering if
> > > riv should be sponsering low speed tech trials for god's sake.  Maybe
> > > they should set up cones in the lot and run a reverse race with points
> > > off for putting a foot down, the guy who can stay up longest spining
> > > 22 - 36 (MEGA) on flat ground wins!!
>
> > > Rob- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Computers? No computers?

[doug peterson]

I generally don't bother.  They are handy on tours in unknown areas
for keeping track of distance.  I lost the receiving unit a couple of
years ago on Day 1 of a 2 week tour, didn't miss it much & haven't
replaced it.  Here in the US most places have decent milepost systems
& the rest of the world favors big kilometer blocks on major roads.  A
computer is handy on un-marked & secondary roads.  I think it's a
comfort factor more than a real necessity.

dougP

On Feb 15, 7:44 am, PATRICK MOORE  wrote:
> How many of y'all have computers on your bikes? The Avocet 35 on my
> gofast failed after many years and I am very tempted not to replace
> it. But weaning myself from the numbers is surprisingly hard,
> particularly mileage numbers.
>
> What do y'all do? Do you use computers? Just a watch to time yourself?
> Just ride and say the heck with it?
>
> Note: I'll still like going fast; I'm just not the rambling type. But
> I can ride hard even without the computer.
>
> --
> Patrick Moore
> Albuquerque, NM
> For professional resumes, contact
> Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com

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[RBW] Re: A couple of mech questions: chainsuck and a noisy BB

[doug peterson]

Paul:

> Matt: Yes, perhaps I should try an 8spd chain. They have bigger spaces
> than 9 spd don't they?

Check out the Harris / Sheldon website for general chain info but IIRC
9 speed is narrower.  I always buy ones marked "6/7/8" speed for my 8
speed.  I generally buy whatever is on sale for around $20 & get
several.  Here in SoCal using wax for lube I get a year out of a
chain.  It's about as chain friendly an environment as possible (dry,
the whole place is paved over).

You mention chain suck when climbing; that's odd.  Maybe climbing in
the granny & middle of the cluster, with not much chain tension?  Hit
a bump or something?  Just a thought.

If chains are that pricey, have Kip pick up a batch when he's here
next time.  That doesn't do you any good today but for future.  If Kip
& Gernot have no problems & you're the only 9 speed user, that could
be a clue.

dougP

On Feb 15, 2:52 am, Paul Yeoh  wrote:
> Thanks for all your replies.
>
> Seth: Just checked, its not the rails.
>
> Patrick: Think I read on EcoVelo to use that paraffin/beeswax ratio.
> It worked really well when the chain was still clean, chain ran more
> silent than when new.
>
> Matt: Yes, perhaps I should try an 8spd chain. They have bigger spaces
> than 9 spd don't they? I think Wipperman's are available here, but for
> a hefty price (like 1500 thb - 48 USD). I have been a veg oil user
> myself on my other bikes, it was great when I lived in wetter
> Singapore. The Riv was the first bike to get chronic chain suck and so
> I thought I'd try wax since the climate is dry and super dusty this
> time of year in Thailand.

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[RBW] Re: SoCal Riv Ride - Feb 12 in SD

[doug peterson]

Mike:

 I was too busy trying to
> hang on to Dustin on that section so I didn't take many pictures.

Hanging with Dustin is an exercise in futility.  But as long as
somebody wants to try, give it a go.

dougP

On Feb 15, 7:18 am, Michael_S  wrote:
> April will be warmer and depending on the weather maybe too hot.  The
> 3rd dirt section was the best in my opinion. I was too busy trying to
> hang on to Dustin on that section so I didn't take many pictures.  I
> think those sections would be best with a 35mm cross tire or a Hetre.
> Of course the final road sections were perfect for the Jack Browns.
>
> ~Mike
>
> On Feb 15, 4:47 am, jim phillips  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Beautiful terrain and beautiful bikes!!
>
> > JimP
>
> > Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 20:33:10 -0800
> > Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: SoCal Riv Ride - Feb 12 in SD
> > From: cyclotour...@gmail.com
> > To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
>
> > Hi John, it's a great route I would encourage you to take. Just be aware of 
> > the singletrack you're going to need to take at mile 20.6.  It's not marked 
> > at all, so you have to be on the look out for it.  That's where the 
> > hike-a-bike section begins.  That's just for ~half a mile though.  
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/5441062476/
>
> > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 8:08 PM, doug peterson  wrote:
>
> > John:
>
> > That would be it.  Mile 29.4 is where David, Jenny & I bailed out.  We
> > took the left while the rest of the group continued on the route.  You
> > can see how that connects to the outbound route around 15.  We then
> > headed back up course & made a left at the intersection that's 12.7
> > outbound & 44.7 returning. We got a total of 42 for the shorter
> > version.
>
> > Carry plenty of food & water.  Take a look at the posted photos.  We
> > had some high quality hike-a-bike sections.  Caution:  Hills may be
> > steeper than they apperar in photos!  Great ride.
>
> > When do you plan to be in San Diego?  I'm a bit north, Orange County,
> > but get down there often.  Maybe we could do this ride; I'm curious
> > about the part I missed.
>
> > dougP
>
> > On Feb 14, 7:47 pm, John Speare  wrote:
>
> > > Can someone who went on the ride verify that this is the map for the 
> > > route:http://ridewithgps.com/routes/252276
>
> > > I'll be in SD in April and this sounds like a perfect day ride.
>
> > > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 7:35 AM, Esteban  wrote:
> > > > I have some photos up from my camera phone - and a write-up on the
> > > > blog:
>
> > > >http://veloflaneur.wordpress.com/2011/02/14/all-tires-welcome/
>
> > > >http://www.flickr.com/photos/25671211@N02/sets/72157625919265243/
>
> > > > The route is worth studying for anyone planning a vacation in San
> > > > Diego. Wow!  Thanks, Dustin!
>
> > > > Esteban
> > > > San Diego, Calif.
>
> > > > On Feb 13, 7:55 pm, doug peterson  wrote:
> > > > > Some of the most interesting "roads" aren't paved.  And we saw some
> > > > > pretty interesting stuff yesterday!
>
> > > > > You're correct David; your tire was just low, not flat.
>
> > > > > dougP
>
> > > > > On Feb 13, 5:53 pm, cyclotourist  wrote:
>
> > > > > > That's my favorite response!!!
>
> > > > > > On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 3:39 PM, Michael_S 
> > > > > >  > > > >wrote:
>
> > > > > > > I was a little worried in riding the rock gardens on the 2nd half 
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > the ride on the Jack Brown greensDustin led us on on some 
> > > > > > > pretty
> > > > > > > rough stuff... but I escaped with nary a scratch.   Some hiker we
> > > > > > > passed was pretty amazed we were on that trail on "road" bikes.
>
> > > > > > > ~Mike
>
> > > > > > > On Feb 13, 1:45 pm, cyclotourist  wrote:
> > > > > > > > How 'bout "Zero flat repairs"?  Slow leaks that had to be topped
> > > > off
> > > > > > > don't
> > > > > > > > count!  :-)
>
> > > > > > > > On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 1:16 PM, doug peterson 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > &g

[RBW] Re: A couple of mech questions: chainsuck and a noisy BB

[doug peterson]

Paul:

I'm not betting on the spindle length.  IME it's not critical.  My
Atlantis came with a 116, which I replaced with a 110 when the
original died.  The Atlantis chainstays really stick out there, and
the 110 leaves only about 2 mm gap between the middle ring & the
chainstay.  So you should be OK with a 107 on your bike.

The FD shouldn't matter.  I think a lot of labeling stuff "9speed" or
"10speed" is marketing.

Sounds like the big difference between your bike & Gernot's is he's
got all 9 speed & you've got a mix.  Check out Sheldon's website for
the details but there may be a difference in chainring thickness
between 6/7/8 and 9 speed.  Cogs are thinner on higher count cogsets.

Under what conditions do you experience chainsuck?  Big ring to
middle, granny, rear shifts?  Bumpy conditions?  Does the chain get
hung up between 2 rings?

dougP

On Feb 16, 2:35 am, Paul Yeoh  wrote:
> James: Thanks for that info!
>
> Gernot: How interesting.. I just checked my Riv invoice and it lists a
> 107mm Tange Super BB. Not that I know what that means, but it reads on
> Riv's site that all Riv bikes should use 113 mm except the Atlantis
> that uses 107 mm.
> Whether I really have a 107 or that's just what it says on the receipt
> - I don't know. How do I find out? And would it matter?
>
> On Feb 16, 1:30 pm, Earl Grey  wrote:
>
>
>
> > I have the same size Hillborne (but earlier Taiwan version) with the
> > same crank (Sugino XD-2), same chain (SRAM 9 speed), older generation
> > but NOS low normal XT derailer (but different front derailer, though I
> > can't see how that would matter), and have no issues with chain suck
> > (okay, 2 or 3 instances in 1.5 yrs, probably with dirty chain). I also
> > run a 9 sp Shimano cassette on a 9 sp Shimano hub, versus Paul's 7 sp
> > Shimano freewheel on Phil hub, but can't see how that would matter.
>
> > How about BB spindle length? It's a long shot, but if the spindle is
> > too long, I could see that contributing.
>
> > Gernot
>
> > On Feb 16, 7:19 am, doug peterson  wrote:
>
> > > Paul:
>
> > > > Matt: Yes, perhaps I should try an 8spd chain. They have bigger spaces
> > > > than 9 spd don't they?
>
> > > Check out the Harris / Sheldon website for general chain info but IIRC
> > > 9 speed is narrower.  I always buy ones marked "6/7/8" speed for my 8
> > > speed.  I generally buy whatever is on sale for around $20 & get
> > > several.  Here in SoCal using wax for lube I get a year out of a
> > > chain.  It's about as chain friendly an environment as possible (dry,
> > > the whole place is paved over).
>
> > > You mention chain suck when climbing; that's odd.  Maybe climbing in
> > > the granny & middle of the cluster, with not much chain tension?  Hit
> > > a bump or something?  Just a thought.
>
> > > If chains are that pricey, have Kip pick up a batch when he's here
> > > next time.  That doesn't do you any good today but for future.  If Kip
> > > & Gernot have no problems & you're the only 9 speed user, that could
> > > be a clue.
>
> > > dougP
>
> > > On Feb 15, 2:52 am, Paul Yeoh  wrote:
>
> > > > Thanks for all your replies.
>
> > > > Seth: Just checked, its not the rails.
>
> > > > Patrick: Think I read on EcoVelo to use that paraffin/beeswax ratio.
> > > > It worked really well when the chain was still clean, chain ran more
> > > > silent than when new.
>
> > > > Matt: Yes, perhaps I should try an 8spd chain. They have bigger spaces
> > > > than 9 spd don't they? I think Wipperman's are available here, but for
> > > > a hefty price (like 1500 thb - 48 USD). I have been a veg oil user
> > > > myself on my other bikes, it was great when I lived in wetter
> > > > Singapore. The Riv was the first bike to get chronic chain suck and so
> > > > I thought I'd try wax since the climate is dry and super dusty this
> > > > time of year in Thailand.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: A couple of mech questions: chainsuck and a noisy BB

[doug peterson]

+1 for Thomas observations.  I think the BB question has been sorted
out on this forum & somewhere here there's a chart of models and sizes
that may be more accurate than the guidance on the Riv site.  Some
issues seem to have too many combinations to say for sure what works &
what won't.  Isn't trial & error how some of us managed to develop
parts collections?

OTH, Paul's bike is nearly new & really should be working properly
with the build combo Riv installed.  But hey, that's what we're here
for, right?

dougP

On Feb 16, 1:43 pm, Thomas Lynn Skean 
wrote:
> On Feb 16, 4:35 am, Paul Yeoh  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Gernot: How interesting.. I just checked my Riv invoice and it lists a
> > 107mm Tange Super BB. Not that I know what that means, but it reads on
> > Riv's site that all Riv bikes should use 113 mm except the Atlantis
> > that uses 107 mm.
> > Whether I really have a 107 or that's just what it says on the receipt
> > - I don't know. How do I find out? And would it matter?
>
> RBW is a great institution, a wonderful collection of people, and has
> inspired this marvelous group.
>
> The RBW web-site, while generally informative, extremely interesting,
> highly recommended and overall very enjoyable reading, is *not* using
> best-of-breed content-maintenance technology or practices. :)
>
> For example... I think the web-site's statement on BB size may
> actually predate the *existence* of all the current RBW frame
> offerings *except* the Atlantis. And I know the Atlantis itself has
> changed a bunch over that time. Now, they *may* have gone to some
> trouble to make sure that every Atlantis variant (and every other
> frame design) complied with that statement on the web-site (I'm being
> silly!). But I wouldn't count on it.
>
> Definitely read the web-site with a grain of "subject to change or
> have changed without notice" when it comes to little tidbits of
> detail, however technical they are or important they might be in a
> given situation. If it really matters, ask, measure, and/or test.
>
> I of course am glad (or at least hope) they don't spend hours or even
> too many minutes worrying about this sort of thing. It means the web-
> site doesn't read like a technical manual. It means the bikes don't
> get held up in as many bureaucratic processes. It means they can have
> longer meaningful conversations on the phone and in e-mail about
> helping customers choose a frame, components, and/or accessories.
>
> Oh, and... just in case you missed it... a custom frameset is now
> $3,500. Not $3,000, as indicated on the "Bicycle Models" page (as of
> this moment, anyway).
>
> RBW, don't change a thing. Unless the change'll keep you from getting
> sued, fined, or imprisoned!
>
> Yours,
> Thomas Lynn Skean

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[RBW] Re: A couple of mech questions: chainsuck and a noisy BB

[doug peterson]

> Doug: I'm getting it mostly on the granny ring, sometimes on the
> middle, with the rear derailer on the smaller cogs. Almost exclusively
> on dirty, so probably fairly bumpy.

Granny on the smaller cogs means not much tension on the chain.  Shift
to the granny & big cog, and note where the RD cage is and feel the
chain tension.  Then shift out to a small cog & you'll see the cage
swing way back to take up the slack.  Feel the chain tension.  It will
be a lot less.  Then try the same observation in the middle & big
rings.  On the big you may want to forgo using the largest 2 cogs as
the chain tension gets high and the angle kinda extreme.

IME the combinations of the granny & the 3 or 4 largest cogs is fairly
reliable.  By the time you're out to the middle of cluster, it's time
to shift to the middle.  In the middle ring you should be able to use
all the cogs reliably.  What I've found (the hard way, of course) is
I'd climb a steep hill on the granny & big cog, go over the top, shift
up a few cogs for the downhill, bounce around a bit & the chain would
either fall off to the inside or get sucked up against the stay.  A
more experienced rider suggested shifting to the middle ring once over
the top so as to put some tension on the chain for the bouncy
downhill.

dougP


On Feb 17, 6:25 am, Paul Yeoh  wrote:
> Thanks again to everyone for your replies.
>
> Doug: I'm getting it mostly on the granny ring, sometimes on the
> middle, with the rear derailer on the smaller cogs. Almost exclusively
> on dirty, so probably fairly bumpy.
>
> Cyclofiend: Hmm... its hard to say. I will have to get some opinions
> from Gernot and Kip when I see them.
>
> Michael: The XD2 is totally stock.
>
> Thomas: Yes, I emailed Keven about the different spindle sizes and he
> replied to say the site was out of date with regards to that little
> fact. Thanks for sharing your configuration info.

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[RBW] Re: Everything's Perfect....I'ma touchin NOTHIN!

[doug peterson]

Angus:

I dunno; maybe try to re-visit this state of bliss in a week or so &
report back.  Sounds un-natural.

My Atlantis will shortly have it's 8th birthday & I'm still
tinkering.  Going to try Silver bar ends (been using Suntour Bar Cons
forever) & chubby Tektro brake levers.  Still moving toward ever wider
tires, 40s are next up.  There will always be something.  Racks'n'bags
alone can occupy me for countless hours.

dougP

On Feb 17, 5:05 pm, Angus  wrote:
> My name is Angus and I am a "tinkerer."
>
> I can't leave well enough alone.
>
> I'm constantly trying to make everything better (although it doesn't
> always work out that way).
>
> Nothing is perfect...everything always needs improving.
>
> Many people may think this is sad...but I've come to accept it.  I'm
> kinda happy with it actually.
>
> Last weekend I took the 13 year old All-Rounder for a ride (the
> Albatross bar equipped All-Rounder is my "stiff back bike")
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/16951387@N08/4739416729/
>
> Something clicked...everything worked well: brakes, shifting,
> handling...everything.  I realized I haven't had to fiddle with
> anything on this bike in months; nothing felt funny, shifters seemed
> happy with the derailleurs, brakes were easy to use, modulated well,
> didn't squeal and stayed centered, position was great, nothing made
> funny noises
>
> WHOA!  This hasn't happened before.
>
> Everything's Perfect...I'ma touching NOTHIN!
>
> Angus "Who dreams of one day getting his other bicycles to this level
> of zen like harmony"

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[RBW] Re: Stem Mounted Shifters?

[doug peterson]

If Jenny from Point Loma sees this maybe she'll chime in.  She has
them on her Homer & they look good.  I haven't gotten a close look but
they look better than the ones common back in the 70s/80s.  It's a
clean look that elminates all the clutter of the bar ends I've been
using forever.  Definitely worth consideration.

dougP

On Feb 17, 12:42 pm, William  wrote:
> The coolest things I've seen is custom steel stems with downtube
> bosses brazed onto the stem.  Ahearne in particular features them
> often.
>
> On Feb 17, 11:21 am, Peter Pesce  wrote:
>
>
>
> > I was trying to find something like this a while back, with no luck. I
> > even asked Chris at VO if they would consider producing some kind of
> > stem mount for the silver shifters. He said they had considered it,
> > but it was way down the list of things they are planning to do.
>
> > Best bet would be to find an old stem shift clamp that uses the same
> > bosses as the current production silvers.
>
> > I've even thought about trying to retrofit downtubes to my Sam,
> > without brazing bosses on. Nothing exists for a 31.8mm downtube,
> > though, and I don't have the skills/tools to fabricate anything that
> > would look decent.
>
> > -Pete
>
> > On Feb 17, 11:28 am, jsk  wrote:
>
> > > Hi all,
>
> > > Just wondering if anyone knows of a manufacturer making modern, well
> > > built stem mounted shifters anymore (or ever)? You know, like the type
> > > that used come standard on Schwinn Collegiate bikes and the like?
>
> > > I mean, considering the devotion to upright bars here ...- Hide quoted 
> > > text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Stem Mounted Shifters?

[doug peterson]

Veloman:

Now you've done it.  I bought a nearly complete Arabesque group from a
guy a couple of years ago for a project that didn't happen, and among
the goodies was just such a set.  Now I've got to find them &
contemplate installing them on the Atlantis.  It's that time of year
for a bit of tinkering and this is an intriguing idea.  I need to
install cable splitters anyway.

dougP

On Feb 17, 8:57 pm, velomann  wrote:
> Oh my gosh - do you happen to have access to a used bike shop or
> cycling co-op kind of place? There must be a half dozen places here in
> Portland that have, like, boxes - literally - of Shimano and Suntour
> stem-mount shifters. I doubt you're likely to find anything better
> than those old classics. If you can find an old set of the Shimano 600
> "Arabesque" stem mount shifters, you'll think you died and went to
> stem shifter heaven!
>
> On Feb 17, 8:28 am, jsk  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi all,
>
> > Just wondering if anyone knows of a manufacturer making modern, well
> > built stem mounted shifters anymore (or ever)? You know, like the type
> > that used come standard on Schwinn Collegiate bikes and the like?
>
> > I mean, considering the devotion to upright bars here ...- Hide quoted text 
> > -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Stem Mounted Shifters?

[doug peterson]

Thomas:

Please post if you find something.  I checked my Arabesques & the
clamp is way bigger than the stem.  It would need a thick shim to work
& I'd probably start with a couple of tire boots or something equally
ugly.

Whatever's on Jenny's Homer is clean looking & fits the look of the
bike.

dougP

On Feb 19, 6:27 pm, Thomas Lynn Skean 
wrote:
> Yes, decisions such as this one require considerable contemplation,
> research, analysis, soul-searching, and, certainly not least,
> consultation.
>
> You can't just jump into these things. Who knows what would happen?
>
> :)
>
> Yours,
> Thomas Lynn Skean
> P.S. I thought I saw on the web  some stem-mounted clamp that could be
> used to hold modern downtube shifters. I'll look around and post back
> if I find it again. Good thing there's no rush!
>
> On Feb 19, 5:15 pm, Angus  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Stem mounted shifters are increasingly appealing to me...in a few
> > years it may cause me to act.
>
> > Angus
>
> > On Feb 17, 10:28 am, jsk  wrote:
>
> > > Hi all,
>
> > > Just wondering if anyone knows of a manufacturer making modern, well
> > > built stem mounted shifters anymore (or ever)? You know, like the type
> > > that used come standard on Schwinn Collegiate bikes and the like?
>
> > > I mean, considering the devotion to upright bars here ...- Hide quoted 
> > > text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Stem Mounted Shifters?

[doug peterson]

Jenny:

Thanks for the photos & info.  Whoduh thunk those old Suntour stem
shifters would ever get respect?  Must be the Silver levers that make
your set-up look so good.  I gotta think about this one; been using
bar ends for at least 20 years & still poke myself and hit the lever
sometimes, and have never liked the look of the cable housings looping
around the front.

dougP

On Feb 20, 9:10 pm, Jenny  wrote:
> Doug,
>
> My stem shifter solution:
>
> Took a set of old Suntour stem shifters and replaced the shifting
> levers with the Rivendell Silver Shifters.  I had to file/apply
> sandpaper to the posts on the Suntour shifter mounts a hair in order
> to get the Rivendell shifters to fit.
>
> Photos of my Franken-shifter 
> set:http://www.flickr.com/photos/56986077@N06/sets/72157625974204537/
>
> Don't know the model number, but here's an example of the Suntour stem
> shifter mount/clamp I 
> used:http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Road-Bike-Suntour-10-Speed-Fingertip-Shif...
>
> It works great for me because I like to ride with my hands on the
> tops.
>
> Jenny
>
> On Feb 19, 10:49 pm, doug peterson  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Thomas:
>
> > Please post if you find something.  I checked my Arabesques & the
> > clamp is way bigger than the stem.  It would need a thick shim to work
> > & I'd probably start with a couple of tire boots or something equally
> > ugly.
>
> > Whatever's on Jenny's Homer is clean looking & fits the look of the
> > bike.
>
> > dougP
>
> > On Feb 19, 6:27 pm, Thomas Lynn Skean 
> > wrote:
>
> > > Yes, decisions such as this one require considerable contemplation,
> > > research, analysis, soul-searching, and, certainly not least,
> > > consultation.
>
> > > You can't just jump into these things. Who knows what would happen?
>
> > > :)
>
> > > Yours,
> > > Thomas Lynn Skean
> > > P.S. I thought I saw on the web  some stem-mounted clamp that could be
> > > used to hold modern downtube shifters. I'll look around and post back
> > > if I find it again. Good thing there's no rush!
>
> > > On Feb 19, 5:15 pm, Angus  wrote:
>
> > > > Stem mounted shifters are increasingly appealing to me...in a few
> > > > years it may cause me to act.
>
> > > > Angus
>
> > > > On Feb 17, 10:28 am, jsk  wrote:
>
> > > > > Hi all,
>
> > > > > Just wondering if anyone knows of a manufacturer making modern, well
> > > > > built stem mounted shifters anymore (or ever)? You know, like the type
> > > > > that used come standard on Schwinn Collegiate bikes and the like?
>
> > > > > I mean, considering the devotion to upright bars here ...- Hide 
> > > > > quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: waxing chains--how hot the wax?

[doug peterson]

I never measured the temp but the wax is thin enough to drip off the
chain when I lift it out.  For years I used a coffee can (wax & chain)
sitting in a saucepan of water, only letting the water get to a gentle
boil.  My wife picked up a small fondue pot so I could move the
operation into the garage.  Wipe down the chain, hook the ends with a
couple of re-purposed paper clips for easy retrieval, & drop into the
pot.  Turn on high & go about my garage tinkering.  It may take 20-30
minutes for the wax to melt & get hot, not sure, never timed it.  I
suppose the chain sits there for half hour or more.  Remove, hang from
a hook over an old newspaper, wipe down to removed excess wax & let
cool for a few minutes.  That's as scientific as I've gotten so it
seems the recipe isn't critical.

dougP

On Feb 22, 1:45 am, Earl Grey  wrote:
> Surprised I didn't find the definitive answer in the archives, or a
> riv reader for that matter.
>
> The 1992 Bridgestone catalogue mentions using a double boiler, thus
> 212 Fahrenheit max.
>
> Riv Reader Vol 1 Issue 1 says Grant uses a 400 F bath, and says the
> flash point is 425 F. Also says don't do this at home (liability
> reasons, one assumes).
>
> So, what do the extra 188 F get you? Lower viscosity and better
> penetration? Has anyone found this to matter, or has anyone the
> necessary scientific background to theorize upon the topic?
>
> Winter here is bone dry season, so it seems like the time to finally
> try wax after 20 years of cycling.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Gernot

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[RBW] Re: waxing chains--how hot the wax?

[doug peterson]

It is kinda amazing how much thought, effort & discussion occurs on
the subject of maintaining what is for most of us a relatively low
cost (I've heard of $100 chains but never known one), expendable
part.  Tinker away, my friends.

doug "waxing poetic" P

On Feb 22, 10:46 am, Benedikt  wrote:
> I gotta go with you on this, omnigrid.  I think people get to
> "mystical" about chain lube.  As a side note I was amazed to see the
> rusty covered squeaky creaky chains people had on their daily riders
> when I went down to Cozumel, Mex.
>
> On Feb 22, 8:23 am, omnigrid  wrote:
>
>
>
> > you guys sure go through alot of trouble lubing your chains.
>
> > I hit each link with a drop of boshield after riding in wet conditions or
> > when the chain makes any sound, let it sit overnight or a few hours, and
> > then wipe off. no problems. easy.
>
> > On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 9:58 AM, jim phillips 
> > wrote:
>
> > >  Why would moisture haver an effect on wax. I wax guns and knives to keep
> > > them from rusting due to the high humidity here...
>
> > > JimP
>
> > > --
> > > Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 07:22:02 -0800
> > > Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: waxing chains--how hot the wax?
> > > From: cyclotour...@gmail.com
> > > To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
>
> > > I use a "Fry Baby" deep fryer.  I don't know what temp it heats to.  FYI,
> > > the wax is useless with the slightest bit of moisture.  Not a problem for 
> > > me
> > > in the summer as it performs wonderfully in dry and dusty conditions.
>
> > > On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 6:35 AM, Peter Pesce  wrote:
>
> > > Check out EcoVelo - Alan has several posts on the how-to's and why-
> > > to's of waxing.
>
> > > -Pete
>
> > > On Feb 22, 4:45 am, Earl Grey  wrote:
> > >  > Surprised I didn't find the definitive answer in the archives, or a
> > > > riv reader for that matter.
>
> > > > The 1992 Bridgestone catalogue mentions using a double boiler, thus
> > > > 212 Fahrenheit max.
>
> > > > Riv Reader Vol 1 Issue 1 says Grant uses a 400 F bath, and says the
> > > > flash point is 425 F. Also says don't do this at home (liability
> > > > reasons, one assumes).
>
> > > > So, what do the extra 188 F get you? Lower viscosity and better
> > > > penetration? Has anyone found this to matter, or has anyone the
> > > > necessary scientific background to theorize upon the topic?
>
> > > > Winter here is bone dry season, so it seems like the time to finally
> > > > try wax after 20 years of cycling.
>
> > > > Cheers,
>
> > > > Gernot
>
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> > > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > > For more options, visit this group at
> > >http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>
> > > --
> > > Cheers,
> > > David
> > > Redlands, CA
>
> > > *...in terms of recreational cycling there are many riders who would
> > > probably benefit more from
> > > improving their taste than from improving their performance.* - RTMS
>
> > > --
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>
> > > --
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> > > For more options, visit this group at
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>
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[RBW] Atlantis color?

[doug peterson]

Has anyone ever had something painted to match their Atlantis?  I'm
talking to a guy (not local to me) about painting some parts to match
the standard color.  He says if he has a Dupont automotive paint
number he can do it.  The Testor's modeling paint is OK for touch up
but not close enough for a large area.  So if anyone has solved this
problem already I'm interested in hearing from you.

dougP

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[RBW] Re: Introduction to Bike Touring course

[doug peterson]

Rene:

Others have covered the pannier, gear, training, etc. issues well so
nothing to add there.  How about doing a few S24Os before your trip?
Load up all the stuff you think you may need for the long trip & see
how it is to ride.  You may ID things that aren't so important or
remember things you should have brought.  A bike with 4 bags is a
different animal than a commuter load.

+1 for the comment about getting off the bike frequenlty.  I'm a bit
older than you & find that a short (5-10 minute max) break after a
couple of hours in the morning, followed by hourly breaks the rest of
the day, is revitalizing.

dougP

On Feb 24, 9:11 pm, Kelly Sleeper  wrote:
> Here is a great site for 
> information..http://www.bicycletouring101.com/index.html
>
> Enjoy your Arkels.  I've been touring with mine for the last 5 years and can
> state without reservation that they perform as well as anything out there.
> Weight is way over rated, especially when touring.
>
> I'm not saying over pack, but there is comfort a good book brings to the
> campsite, or comfort for me a computer / email / connectivity brings.   We
> are all different but comfort is key to me.  So pack smart for what you are
> doing, but keep comfort and enjoyment as the top priority.  Then room.
> Worry about weight later.   Leave space for expansion along the way.  My
> last trip I ended up with 10 shot glasses, a new coat, t shirts, ball caps
> and such from tourist traps.
>
> A larger tent adds a pound or two but leaves room for me to sit up in and
> have all my gear inside the tent wtih me.  Great for packing up on those
> rainy windy days.  Also nice for card games at night.
>
> Speaking of tents.. make sure it's easy to put up and take down since you do
> it daily.
>
> Test before you leave.  Even heavy loads work great on hills if you have the
> gearing.
>
> I'm jealous and can't wait to hear how it goes.
>
> Kelly
>
> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 10:21 PM, Rene Sterental wrote:
>
>
>
> > Thanks Dave. You make some good points too. I already have the Arkel
> > panniers. I know some peep think they're heavy, but I just fell in love with
> > them. I'll make it a point to try to pack as efficiently as possible. I'm
> > not planning on carrying a laptop or long cords on that tour, but want to
> > bring my iPhone and my Garmin 800, so I've purchased the watchamacallit to
> > recharge them from the Son 28 hub.  I think I'll have to also get adapter to
> > make sjre current flows steadily to the devices when the Son isn't moving;
> > I'm still figuring out how the whole thing works.
>
> > All of this advice is great
>
> > Thanks to all who have submitted it via the list and privately as well.
>
> > René
>
> > Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Feb 24, 2011, at 7:46 PM, Dave Craig  wrote:
>
> > > Awesome, René!
>
> > > I did the ACA tour leader training and I found it to be a lot of fun.
> > > The leaders were very knowledgeable, yet humble, and I really enjoyed
> > > learning more about the ACA.
>
> > > As a counterpoint to Kelly, I think the most important thing is to
> > > pack light. To me, the extra comforts mean that I might think twice
> > > about enticing side roads or stopping at a fruit stand to stock up on
> > > the way to camp. Everything I pack fits inside my Ortlieb front and
> > > rear panniers. I don't usually have anything on top of my racks and I
> > > don't often use a handlebar bag.
>
> > > Your rack set up seems fine to me. Unless you already have them, the
> > > Arkel panniers you mention are heavy and a little complex for my
> > > tastes - to each his own. It seems that whenever I see someone with
> > > that particular pannier set, they are carrying far more than I would.
>
> > > As for training, go with your body. Ride as much as possible, but not
> > > to the point of pain. The ACA folks are used to dealing with middle-
> > > aged folks who aren't super athletes - you'll do fine if you just ride
> > > as much as possible. In prepping for a tour, I seldom have the time to
> > > ride as much as I'd like, so I substitute fast commuting with the
> > > occasional long, slow ride to add mileage and time in the saddle.
> > > Funny, I've never, ever trained with my panniers on before any tour -
> > > that seems like a good idea, but my butt is always the limiting factor
> > > at the beginning of a tour, not my endurance.
>
> > > Dave
> > > (also 51)
>
> > > On Feb 24, 3:22 pm, Rene Sterental  wrote:
> > >> I have signed up with the Adventure Cycling Association to do their
> > >> Introduction to Bike Touring course in May in Eugene, OR.
> >http://www.adventurecycling.org/tours/tourdetail.cfm?t=EDU11&id=249&p=1
>
> > >> I am going to do it on my Atlantis, so it's Riv related, and thought
> > that
> > >> there might perhaps be some other people in this group who would be
> > >> interested in joining. Not that you can't just do it on your own, but I
> > >> figured it would be worth for me to get some formal education/training
> > and
> > >> support to

[RBW] Re: Warning: non-scientific experiment under construction (650B vs 700C)

[doug peterson]

My guess is the 700s will seem faster but the 650s will actually be
quicker.  The difficulty will be that you know which set's on the
bike.  I can't imagine there being a significant difference in speed
but I can see how you could detect a significant difference in
comfort.  I think the comfort-being-faster thing kicks in when you're
on the bike for hours and won't come into play on your daily commute.
It'll be interesting to see the actual results.

dougP

On Feb 25, 10:04 am, William  wrote:
> OK so I made a sort of self-indulgent mod to my A. Homer Hilsen.  I
> set up the normally 650B bike with a 700C wheelset and short reach
> brakes.  It's a wheelset I already had, and a short-reach brakeset I
> already had.  So now I have a single bike that can easily be taken on
> a ride with 650Bx(whatever) tires one day, and taken on the same ride
> with 700x(23-28) tires the next, or whatever.
>
> I bought the bike because of the feel of 650B, and I'm thrilled with
> it.  Like most of you, I've been skeptical of the claims from Jan H
> and others that fat tires are faster.  That said, on brevets in the
> last couple of months, I've been surprised at how quickly I catch and
> pass riders on coasting descents when I'm on 650x38 at 50psi and they
> are on 700x23 and I presume 90-110psi.  That's anecdotal, and doesn't
> necessarily mean anything, but it was surprising.
>
> So, now I think it will be fun to do a pseudo-scientific spot
> comparison between 650B and 700C.  My commute to work is a 35-mile
> hilly ride through the east bay hills from El Cerrito to South
> Hayward.  A good chunk of that is a non-stop stretch.  I can usually
> get from my front door to a traffic signal in front of Castro Valley
> High School without stopping or putting my foot down.  The next 10
> times I do this commute, I'm going to alternate between the two
> wheelsets, and record my time for the same non-stop stretch for these
> ten rides.  The 650B tires will be hetres at 50/45psi, and the 700C
> tires will be continental gatorskin 28s at 85/80psi.
>
> Anyone care to guess which will seem faster?  Too close to call?
> Impossible to test unless the rider is blind to the wheel
> configuration?  Any advice on keeping the data clean?

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[RBW] Re: Warning: non-scientific experiment under construction (650B vs 700C)

[doug peterson]

Since this is a "non-scientific tire test" I'll throw in some data to
confuse the issue further.  My wife is a small, light person who's
ridden for a long time on an aluminum Trek with 700c wheels & Paselas
marked 28 mm, measure 26 mm at 80 psi.  On her 26" wheeled Atlantis, I
installed some 1.25" wide Panaracer Urban Max (even the name sounds
heavy!) and inflate to around 60 psi.  Both bikes weigh the same +/- a
water bottle.

Her downhill style is sitting bolt upright and coasting, so which bike
"should" roll faster in this real world roll down test?  We ride a lot
of local bike paths that have underpasses where my considerable
greater mass gets me going a lot faster.  She nearly keeps up on the
26" wheeled Atlantis, while drifting painfully behind on the 700
wheeled bike.  Bigger wheels roll faster?  Maybe not the entire
answer?  While it provides hours of amusement to speculate, I'm happy
she loves her Atlantis and the Trek is now a "guest bike"..

dougP

On Feb 26, 7:54 am, Patrick in VT  wrote:
> On Feb 25, 2:56 pm, William  wrote:
>   
>
> > A lot of comfort is bike fit, though, and the 700x28 wheels won't change
> > any of my fit points on the bike, so maybe I'll feel just as good.
> > Who knows?  
>
> Depends on the roads, no?  most of the long rides I do happen to
> include a lot of dirt - I really like 650b for these rides because it
> is definitely more comfortable when the pavement ends.
>
> for road rides, my 700c bike with 25s is just plain faster.  every now
> and then, i'll take my 650b rig (which is actually a sporty bike -
> columbus spirit-for-lugs tubes/pari-motos/white industries H2s laced
> to aerohead rims) out with some fast friends (who i can normally put
> the hurt on) and it's a struggle just to keep up.  the pari-motos at
> 50psi just don't accelerate like a narrower tire at higher pressure -
> and it's very noticeable when you need to get back up to 25mph in a
> hurry.  this is what "fast" means to me.
>
> just cruising along, I don't really notice a difference - i'm as fast
> as my legs and lungs are strong on any given day.  but the bike/wheel
> choice becomes pretty clear given the type of ride i'm about to do:
> rough-stuff mixed terrain or long brevet - 650b!!  spirited road ride
> - 700c!!

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[RBW] Re: Warning: non-scientific experiment under construction (650B vs 700C)

[doug peterson]

FWIW, list member Anne has a pair of Atlantises all to herself!

We got lucky on my wife's bike.  Another list member noticed for sale
& let me know.  We weren't even bike shopping & bought it from someone
who was moving & had to get rid of things in a hurry.  Her loss was
our gain, as they say.

dougP

On Feb 26, 9:49 am, Mojo  wrote:
> Both of you own an Atlantis? Sheesh, Life is Good!
>
> On Feb 26, 9:56 am, doug peterson  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Since this is a "non-scientific tire test" I'll throw in some data to
> > confuse the issue further.  My wife is a small, light person who's
> > ridden for a long time on an aluminum Trek with 700c wheels & Paselas
> > marked 28 mm, measure 26 mm at 80 psi.  On her 26" wheeled Atlantis, I
> > installed some 1.25" wide Panaracer Urban Max (even the name sounds
> > heavy!) and inflate to around 60 psi.  Both bikes weigh the same +/- a
> > water bottle.
>
> > Her downhill style is sitting bolt upright and coasting, so which bike
> > "should" roll faster in this real world roll down test?  We ride a lot
> > of local bike paths that have underpasses where my considerable
> > greater mass gets me going a lot faster.  She nearly keeps up on the
> > 26" wheeled Atlantis, while drifting painfully behind on the 700
> > wheeled bike.  Bigger wheels roll faster?  Maybe not the entire
> > answer?  While it provides hours of amusement to speculate, I'm happy
> > she loves her Atlantis and the Trek is now a "guest bike"..
>
> > dougP
>
> > On Feb 26, 7:54 am, Patrick in VT  wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 25, 2:56 pm, William  wrote:
> > >   
>
> > > > A lot of comfort is bike fit, though, and the 700x28 wheels won't change
> > > > any of my fit points on the bike, so maybe I'll feel just as good.
> > > > Who knows?  
>
> > > Depends on the roads, no?  most of the long rides I do happen to
> > > include a lot of dirt - I really like 650b for these rides because it
> > > is definitely more comfortable when the pavement ends.
>
> > > for road rides, my 700c bike with 25s is just plain faster.  every now
> > > and then, i'll take my 650b rig (which is actually a sporty bike -
> > > columbus spirit-for-lugs tubes/pari-motos/white industries H2s laced
> > > to aerohead rims) out with some fast friends (who i can normally put
> > > the hurt on) and it's a struggle just to keep up.  the pari-motos at
> > > 50psi just don't accelerate like a narrower tire at higher pressure -
> > > and it's very noticeable when you need to get back up to 25mph in a
> > > hurry.  this is what "fast" means to me.
>
> > > just cruising along, I don't really notice a difference - i'm as fast
> > > as my legs and lungs are strong on any given day.  but the bike/wheel
> > > choice becomes pretty clear given the type of ride i'm about to do:
> > > rough-stuff mixed terrain or long brevet - 650b!!  spirited road ride
> > > - 700c!!- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis color?

[doug peterson]

Steve:

Thanks for posting; I'm going to print that to see how closely it
matches the bike.  I've used the Testors to touch up & it does look
different but that may be just the brushing on & lack of proper prep.
I'll see if the painter can work with the CMYK code.  That's the sort
of info I was looking for.

I contacted Testors customer service to see if they can provide cross
reference to an auto paint available in sufficient quantity.  We'll
see what they come up with.

dougP

On Feb 26, 11:51 am, "Steve D."  wrote:
> After successfully painting my Silca pump with the touch up paint that
> Riv sent with my Atlantis frame that I bought in '03, I've been
> considering painting my SKS plastic fenders to match. Following
> Grant's lead in the last post/reply, I searched the web for Testor's
> USSR Interior Blue Green #2135 and found 
> this:http://www.art-paints.com/Paints/Acrylic/Testors/Model/USSR-Interior-...
> which gives the CMYK code of 67, 24, 47, 2. Here's the color swatch
> from the Tester's site:http://www.testors.com/product/0/2135/_/
>
> It's too bad Testor's only sells this color in .5 oz containers.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Steve DeMont
> Seattle
>
> On Feb 24, 6:58 am, bicyclebill  wrote:
>
>
>
> > I had some front rack braze-ons added to my Bleriot by a local
> > framebuilder (Peter Mooney) but he couldn't match the paint.
> > Rivendell was actually not helpful and could not provide a paint
> > number that could be given to a local painter.  When I get some time,
> > I've been referred to a custom shop in Providence, RI (Circle A) where
> > I hope they can match it by eye or trial and error.
>
> > Bill
>
> > On Feb 23, 7:45 pm, Mike  wrote:> Have you contacted 
> > Rivendell? Seems like they'd be able to help you
> > > with it. Or even Waterford since they're now making the Atlantis for
> > > Riv.
>
> > > On Feb 23, 4:06 pm, doug peterson  wrote:
>
> > > > Has anyone ever had something painted to match their Atlantis?  I'm
> > > > talking to a guy (not local to me) about painting some parts to match
> > > > the standard color.  He says if he has a Dupont automotive paint
> > > > number he can do it.  The Testor's modeling paint is OK for touch up
> > > > but not close enough for a large area.  So if anyone has solved this
> > > > problem already I'm interested in hearing from you.
>
> > > > dougP- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Lay-aways

[doug peterson]

"Why not 20% down and 8 equal 10% payments?  Why not 25% down
> and 6 equal 12.5% payments?"

Where's the fun in that?  And you call yourself a "recreational
mathematician"!  What's your average rate of furlongs per fortnight
when riding?

dougP

On Mar 1, 12:51 pm, William  wrote:
> I am very fond of Rivendell as a business and I am possibly even more
> fond of Rivendell's employees as individuals.  Please remember that
> when I make the comment below:
>
> How "typically Rivendell" it is to figure out a payment plan that
> takes 20% down and then 7 equal payments of
> 11.428571428571428571428571% per month after that.  I like 6-digit
> repeating decimals as much as the next recreational mathematician, but
> dude.  Why not 20% down and 8 equal 10% payments?  Why not 25% down
> and 6 equal 12.5% payments?  Hopefully they have a computer do it all,
> but it's amusing to me how un-simple they tend to make certain
> things.  It's actually kind of endearing.
>
> On Mar 1, 11:54 am, grrlyrida  wrote:
>
>
>
> > +1,000,000
> > I'm gonna try it next month with a Betty Foy. First red heteres are in
> > and now this. Yippee!!!
>
> > On Mar 1, 11:02 am, William  wrote:
>
> > > +1
>
> > > I like my Hillborne a lot, but I think I would like an Atlantis even
> > > better.  Hmmm
>
> > > On Mar 1, 10:43 am, Pondero  wrote:
>
> > > >http://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news_post/335
>
> > > > Okay, how many read this and immediately thought, "Hmmm(insert new
> > > > bike dream here), 20% down would be...and remainder divided by 7
> > > > equals..."?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Silver Bar-End Shifters

[doug peterson]

I don't think they are front / rear specific.  I find that having the
D-rings on the outside makes them easier to adjust friction while
riding.  Both the pods & levers are clearly marked "L" and "R".  Now I
know one reason.

dougP

On Mar 5, 4:37 pm, Minh  wrote:
> As i'm thinking about Silver Shifters, i was looking at the videos and
> i realize that i've had my silver shifters mounted reverse for the
> last 10 years.  What i mean is i have them facing out instead of
> facing in.  I'm guessing you want to face them in to protect them from
> falls etc.
>
> But now i'm wondering, are friction shifters front/rear specific?  I
> realize i've swapped them now, but never had a concern till i noticed
> today :)

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[RBW] Re: Sigh. Busted compression washers on the Silvers. sigh.

[doug peterson]

If you're at the hardware store getting the washers as shown in the
Riv video, also get some star washers if they have them.  I used them
in place of the lock washer as they seem to hold better.

Riv mentions that the gray plastic washer is a weak link, would be
metal in a perfect world, but it ain't gonna happen so the alternate
washer kit is a work around.  It works.

dougP

On Mar 5, 4:11 pm, Minh  wrote:
> Are you talking about the little grey disks? these are a known
> limitation of the silvers shifters, they're great but not perfect.
> rivendell has a kit, but i think you can also piece together your own
> kit at the hardware store, here's the video that shows what you're
> looking forhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO_6CoVjnvo
>
> i wish they were metal (i have a set of suntour cyclones that are like
> this), but then again my sprint shifters w/ plastic washers are still
> holding together after 10 years, and your's broke after it fell, just
> saying ;)
>
> On Mar 5, 5:23 pm, Justin August  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Took out the Bleriot with Hetres for a spin and while hanging out
> > reading a book it fell over and now one of my compression washers is
> > cracked. Annoying, can't believe Riv specced a part with fragile
> > plastic, etc….
>
> > My question: Do I wait for VO to get more in stock or can I use
> > something else? Can I use a leather washer instead of a compression
> > washer?
>
> > Or am I boned?
>
> > Pics of the Bleriot: (ignore my front derailler cable 
> > fray)http://www.flickr.com/photos/justinaugust/5500751630/in/set-721576245...-
> >  Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Sigh. Busted compression washers on the Silvers. sigh.

[doug peterson]

Charlie:

If you make those washers out of brass, I'm interested.  Regardless of
the life expectancy of the gray plastic washers, the brass would be a
lot better looking...even nicer after some exposure to the elements.
Functionality plus aesthetics.

dougP

On Mar 6, 3:04 pm, charlie  wrote:
> I enjoy mine mounted on the down tube as they are long enough to reach
> and they are silky smooth. To be honest they are just levers to me
> ratcheting or not (although that feature is pleasant) they allow me to
> derail the chain onto a different cog and that's about it. The fact
> that they look nice on the bike is a bonus. They seem to be well made
> and in spite of the little plastic washer thingy that sometimes
> cracks, mine have been going strong for several years now. I will make
> my own exact duplicate washers out of brass because I can and in fact,
> I could make many of them but it wouldn't affect my choice to buy them
> again. The Shimano's seem nice but I don't index and the only others I
> have used are Campagnolo's and the old Suntour ratcheting ones that
> keep on ticking on my old Raleigh. I acquired them off an old junk
> bike for free. I don't know if the Shimano levers work or look good on
> the down tube but the Silvers do and I am satisfied.
>
> On Mar 6, 1:09 pm, Mike S  wrote:
>
>
>
> > I have Shimano Ultegra bar end shifters on a bike of mine, and in my
> > opinion they work splendidly. I've never had any mechanical problem
> > with them in two years, they're made in Japan (I think) and I don't
> > know of any plasticy vulnerabilities. They are also $35 cheaper than
> > the Silvers, so I'm wondering why/if people think the Silvers are far
> > superior?
>
> > I was going to get the SIlvers when I was setting this bike up, but
> > the price tag was a bit hefty compared to the Shimanos. ANybody got an
> > argument as to why Silvers are worth it?
>
> > On Mar 6, 2:05 pm, charlie  wrote:
>
> > > Its okay Grant...I'd say most of us are sensible enough to realize
> > > the insignificance and accept the commonly available  substitute born
> > > of Yankee ingenuity.
>
> > > On Mar 6, 10:30 am, grant  wrote:
>
> > > > Nobody should be horrified, shocked, or even disappointed that we
> > > > "spec'd a part with fragile plastic." There's more to it than that.
> > > > We don't get lab results or long-term test results for every part on
> > > > every component we use. There's a certain amount of faith involved, or
> > > > else you can't move. In this case, the same sources were used for the
> > > > Silver washers as were used for the SunTour Sprint washers, and I've
> > > > had them last 5 years. "Failure" means they crack or a chunk falls
> > > > out, but they are failsafemeaning safe when they've failed. We
> > > > don't use plastic forks (except for eating with sometimes), but a
> > > > plastic washer now and thenit's not horrid.
> > > > Two years ago we offered a 3-piece metal and plastic mix of washers
> > > > you could get at a hardware store. We provided them free for the
> > > > asking. Beyond that, we told the maker Hey Please Do Better, and
> > > > before we OK'd the "improved" part, we hung it and an old one out in
> > > > the sun, zip-tied to a bike rack where it could get sunbaked badly.
> > > > Then we tried to mash both. The old cracked, the new didn't, and those
> > > > are the ones we got now.
>
> > > > Grant "this is as defensive as I get, and sorry 'bout it" Petersen
>
> > > > On Mar 5, 2:23 pm, Justin August  wrote:
>
> > > > > Took out the Bleriot with Hetres for a spin and while hanging out
> > > > > reading a book it fell over and now one of my compression washers is
> > > > > cracked. Annoying, can't believe Riv specced a part with fragile
> > > > > plastic, etc….
>
> > > > > My question: Do I wait for VO to get more in stock or can I use
> > > > > something else? Can I use a leather washer instead of a compression
> > > > > washer?
>
> > > > > Or am I boned?
>
> > > > > Pics of the Bleriot: (ignore my front derailler cable 
> > > > > fray)http://www.flickr.com/photos/justinaugust/5500751630/in/set-721576245...-
> > > > >  Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] ISO: split DT cable stops

[doug peterson]

After a diligent search of the interweb for a part that may not exist,
I'm appealing to your vast store of knowledge.  I'm putting DaVinci
cable splitters on the Atlantis to make h'bar removal for shipping
easier.  To remove the h'bars requires removing the DT cable stops.
No biggie, except those little screws like to run & hide, unless
firmly duct taped.  What would be really neat is a bolt-on DT cable
stop that's split, same as the rear brake cable stops.  Has anyone
seen such a fitting?  Now that I've got this notion, plan B involves a
hacksaw & the potential sacrifice of a cable stop :).

dougP

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Thule fork mount long trays

[doug peterson]

Long trays are around 42" (my ancient ones).  Long trays run all the
way from the front wheel mount to the rear crossbar and may extend
beyond the crossbar to support the rear wheel.  This is needed with a
short roof car where the bars can  only be spaced 3' or so apart.

With short trays, the front wheel mounts attach to one bar and the
trays to the other bar.  This requires the bars be mounted roughly the
wheelbase of the bike(s) apart.  This limits the ability to carry an
adult bike and a child size bike.

dougP

On Mar 9, 7:00 am, Kelly Sleeper  wrote:
> How long are the long trays.  I have two Thule fork and tray units complete.
> They are not the disk brake models
>
> Kelly
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 9, 2011, at 12:48 AM, cyclotourist  wrote:
>
>
>
> > I have a new car with a shorter roof line, and can't use my existing short 
> > tray racks.  Wondering if someone has any long trays lying that around they 
> > want to sell.  I don't need the actual fork mount part, just the trays.  
> > One would be okay, but two would be better.
>
> > Thanks,
> > David
> > --
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[RBW] Re: When is a bike to heavy?

[doug peterson]

There's more to it than just gross tonnage.  My wife has 2 bikes that
weigh within a water bottle of each other.  She claims the Atlantis
feels much lighter, and she climbs noticebly faster on it.  I'm happy
to encourage that sort of thinking.

My bike usually weighs around 30 lbs with Nitto big back rack, small
front rack, and Acorn Boxy Rando bag mostly empty.  Strong wheels &
nice cushy 35 mm tires seem a small performance loss to give up for
reliability & comfort.

dougP

On Mar 17, 5:54 pm, MichaelH  wrote:
> OK, now that we have dispensed with helmets, allow me to raise another
> controversial topic.
>
> This is not like, when am I too heavy, which is easy right now.
>
> I have 4 bikes, well 6 really, but we wont go into those details.  All
> four of them are around 62 cm and get ridden regularly - a 1988
> classic stage racing frame, weighing around 22 lbs; a Rambouillet,
> outfitted with White/ Open Pro wheels,  a White dbl crank, Honjo
> fenders,  a Mark's Rack, and light tires also weighing about 22 lbs.;
> a 1984 Trek (Reynolds 531 standard gauge tubing)  with Shimano 9 speed
> cranks and shifters, SKS Fenders, Passella 32 mm T Guards and  coming
> in around 25 lbs; and An Ebisu All Purpose, with front and real steel
> racks, steel fenders, MA 40 Rims, triple DaVinci Cranks, and 38 mm
> Avocet Cross tires that weighs in at a hefty 30 lbs.
>
> I live in Vermont, which has lots of rolling hills and some
> significant climbs.   Do you think the 5 lbs alone, between the Trek
> and Ebisu is enough to effect the performance?  What about the 3 lb
> difference between the Rambouillet and the Trek?  Or, are the
> perceived differences imaginary?
>
> michael

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Atlantis

[doug peterson]

Khalid:

What size(s) are you considering?  The 58 & 61 have some overlap in
PBH & seat height.  Riv suggested a 61 for me but I'd never ridden
anything larger than a 58.  I went with 58 with a 10 cm stem & it's
been perfect.  FWIW, I'd never even seen a Rivendell live before I
unpacked mine.  I just put the h'bars & seat at the height of my old
bike, hopped on & took off.  Within a mile I knew I'd gotten the right
size.  I've only got an inch or so of clearance with both feet on the
ground, with 35 mm tires.  A bit of clearance when you hop off is
comforting.

I don't recall my PBH but it must be in the high 80s.  I'm 5'11", 32"
inseam.  Initially I was talking to Riv about a custom (I thought I
wanted couplings) but after all the measurin'n'figurin', they
suggested just buying a stock Atlantis.  Best bicycle advice I've ever
gotten.

Have you taken all your bike's measurements?  In addition to you,
measure your current bike's relation of seat to h'bars, seat height,
etc.  As others have suggested, talk to Riv live about this.  Knowing
what you're comfortable with now helps clarify the size question.

dougP

On Mar 17, 6:55 pm, Khalid Mateen  wrote:
> Hello everyone:
>
> I am new to this forum and I have a question to ask about ordering an
> Atlantis.  I have taken my PBH but I am no where near Walnut Creek
> California.  I am on the east coast of the US and no where near a Rivendell
> Dealer.  Can you tell me, your experience of bicycle fit when ordering over
> the phone a bicycle that you have never tried?  Did the bicycle feel to big
> or too small?  I have always heard good things about the people who work for
> Rivendell Bicycle works but wanted to ask people who actually purchase their
> bicycles.
>
> THanks
>
> Khalid

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[RBW] Re: A bicycle for my fifty something year old mother.

[doug peterson]

Austin:

Christmas is coming.  Didn't your mom give you some pretty cool stuff
when you were a kid?  Time to reciprocate!  Lots of the hybrids (?)
have steeply sloping TTs, maybe not quite mixte but getting close.  If
Betty's a non-starter, check with the better shops in your area to see
who's got what brands.  RoadieRyan's list has a lot of good choices.
Depending on hills, an 8 speed IGH can be a nice solution.  REI had a
commuter bike in their latest flyer that was nicely equipped (rack,
fenders, lights) for around $800 IIRC.

dougP

On Dec 2, 8:49 pm, Austin Andrews 
wrote:
> All,
>
> My mother has a 3 speed bicycle that she rides around town on. She
> gets some groceries, visits friends, rides to the gym, that sort of
> thing. She's really taken to cycling and she's taken the bike on some
> longer rides, probably 30 miles at the longest. She wants to do more
> of this. She wants to ride up big hills, she wants to ride on groomed
> dirt paths, she wants to get even more groceries, she wants to go
> riding with friends; basically she wants a do it all bike that is
> comfortable, user friendly and will get her up that big hill coming
> up. She'd also like a mixte/step through because she is getting older
> and it's much easier to mount those sorts of frames.
>
> The 3 speed just isn't cutting it for those longer rides. I ask you,
> members of this lovely list, what sort of bicycle does this lady need?
>
> I know the obvious choice would be a Betty Foy but she is squeamish
> about the price tag. I really think she should get one but she just
> doesn't want to spend that much money on anything, be it a bike or
> whatever else might cost that much. I am well aware that the bikes are
> worth the money and I've told her that. She just doesn't want a bike
> that nice. So, does anyone have any suggestions?
>
> I honestly cannot think of a single bike she could buy off the rack
> that would fit the bill and look good doing it.
>
> Best,
>
> Austin

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[RBW] So Cal Riv ride: Chino Hills SP

[doug peterson]

This ride was posted a few weeks back while in its formative stage.
Now we're on for next Sunday, December 13.  Meet at the Starbucks at
the Brea Gateway Mall at S. Brea Blvd and Imperial Hwy (NOT the Brea
Mall, a bit east of there).  Bike'n'bag ogle, outrageous lies and
coffee in the 9ish range, ride at 10 AM.

Andy worked out the route and it's posted in a link on the flickr
site:

http://www.flickr.com/groups/socal_rivendell_bicycle_appreciation_society/discuss/72157622685585543/

Originally about 30 miles, it got expanded due to popular interest.
Andy assures me that the expanded route will consume all available
daylight, energy and available resources.  Very few useless (i.e.,
flat & boring) miles and mostly high quality stuff.

Riv content:  2 of 3 Atlantis' we know of on OC will be attending.  No
RSVP; show'n'go.

dougP

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[RBW] Re: Canvas Waxing Video

[doug peterson]

Thanks, my ancient Hobo bag needs that treatment.

dougP

On Dec 6, 9:40 pm, CycloFiend  wrote:
> Why not...
>
> http://vimeo.com/8025058
>
> - Jim "It's not that I need more hobbies, but maybe I need less
> technology..."
>
> --
> Jim Edgar
> cyclofi...@earthlink.net
>
> Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries -http://www.cyclofiend.com
> Current Classics - Cross Bikes
> Singlespeed - Working Bikes
>
> "I thought the idea was to waste the rest of our lives together.."
> -- Cyril, "Breaking Away"

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[RBW] Re: Quickbeam Arrived Ten Minutes Ago!

[doug peterson]

Robert:

As you unpack the bike, please take the time to take photos of the
packing and post those as well.  I regularly ship my bike for tours
and thought I'd gotten good, but when my Atlantis showed up it was
fantastic how they'd packed it.  I took photos, stored them on my
computer, only to lose the hard drive (argghh!) without back up.  I'm
sure others would appreciate seeing how Riv does it.  They've said
they're going to put up photos on their site but it's been a while.
You would be doing a public service, if you can restrain yourself!

dougP

On Dec 8, 12:45 pm, "Robert F. Harrison"  wrote:
> My QB arrived about 5 minutes ago. I went in to work very early so I could
> run the jobs I absolutely must get done on Tuesdays (without making my
> co-workers do them). Then I headed home as soon as I saw the "out for
> delivery" notice on the UPS site.
>
> About 10am HST I got a call from the UPS driver asking if I would be home
> later. I said yes, except that between 11-2pm I needed to be away and the
> manager of my condo would be in. He asked me to please make sure because the
> box, while not heavy, was bulky. I asked when he thought he'd make it and he
> said not till afternoon. Sigh.
>
> Then he drove up. I could hear him joking with someone outside saying, "I
> told him this afternoon." I immediately broke out the camera and snapped my
> box being offloaded. It'll be part of a flickr album later.
>
> He brought the box up to my apartment and I gave him a cold soda and told
> him he was my hero for the day. Apparently I'm going to have more than one
> hero though because, as you guys said, the bike is packed immaculately. And
> unfortunately I'm going to have to leave it that way for a bit as I have to
> dash out for my companies annual anniversary banquet. Folks with years of
> service in multiples of five are being feted. I made ten years and they are
> pretty insistent about showing up.
>
> Luckily it'll be over around 1:30pm so I can ride home on my other single
> speed (now my "rain bike") and start putting things together. There doesn't
> appear to be a whole lot to do (thankfully), so I'll probably be able to
> take it out for spin before dark.
>
> I'd love to stay and play with it, but the sooner I get this luncheon over
> with, the sooner I can play with my "anniversary present."
>
> Aloha for now!
>
> Bob
>
> --
> Robert Harrison
> rfharri...@gmail.com
> statrixblog.statrix.com

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[RBW] Re: Quickbeam Arrived Ten Minutes Ago!

[doug peterson]

Robert:

Thanks for the photos!  Now I want a new bike just so I can open the
box!  I worked from home so when my Atlantis showed up, that was the
end of work for that dayand maybe a bit of the next.  They've
improved the packing.  The white tube protecting the headset and HT is
new, and the attachment for the block protecting the top of the seat
tube.  It amazes me that they got a 66 cm frame in a UPS box with the
rack.  Mine's 58 cm and in order to get into a box within the UPS
limits without going oversize, I have to take off the racks (rear
sticks up too high), seat, h'bars, & flip the forks round.  And then
it all just barely fits.  If you've still got the box, would you mind
measuring?  One of my touring buds has a 58 cm LHT and he gives up and
has a bike shop pack it.  I'm too stubborn (& cheap).

The completed bike is beautiful.  Every time I see new bike photos
like these, before it gets all rack'd'n'sack'd, I want to go rip all
that stuff off my bike so I can see it again.  Don't clutter it up too
much!

dougP

On Dec 9, 10:54 am, RoadieRyan  wrote:
> Brah your face must be hurting from all that smiling!  I am not sure
> if I am more Jealous of your new QB or the fact that you are in
> Hawaii!
>
> For context its been in the 20s and into the teens hear in the Pacific
> NW for the last week.  In Seattle we crumble once the temps go outside
> our 50 to 85 degree comfort zone  ;-)
>
> Thanks for sharing the photos, I have been hearing for a long time
> about the amazing Riv packing and all I can say after seeing your
> photos is .,wow
>
> Keep on Pedaling and Smiling
>
> Chapeau on a gorgeous bike.
>
> RR
>
> Abike and light-hearted, I take to the open road,
> Healthy, free, the world before me,
> The long brown path before me, leading wherever I choose.
> (with apologies to W.Wordsworth)
>
> On Dec 9, 9:37 am, Esteban  wrote:
>
>
>
> > > As for the actually fit when riding...perfect. Really perfect.
>
> > I think this is what a lot of us experience.  I could never imagine
> > fitting a 62, then I started riding mine, and fit is perfect.
>
> > Esteban
> > San Diego, Calif.
>
> > On Dec 9, 8:26 am, newenglandbike  wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 9, 12:09 am, "Robert F. Harrison"  wrote:
>
> > > > I guess I should note that when I first straddle the bike I was terribly
> > > > worried that it was too big. I'm a 95 pbh and this is a 66cm QB. The 
> > > > thing
> > > > is, I could feel the top tube pretty high up there and had a moment.
>
> > > > Then I realized I wasn't wearing shoes. I put on my normal riding shoes
> > > > (just plain old New Balance walking shoes really) and tried again. It 
> > > > still
> > > > felt a bit big but then I lifted the bike and really jammed it up there 
> > > > as
> > > > that's as high as it's going to get. The bike was quite a ways off the
> > > > ground so really there's plenty of clearance.
>
> > > > I guess that's what happens to new Riv owners the first time they 
> > > > experience
> > > > a properly sized frame. :-)
>
> > > > As for the actually fit when riding...perfect. Really perfect.
>
> > > Wow, nice bike!   I really dig the moustache bars, and the silver
> > > looks excellent.    As far as sizing goes, I have a 64cm QB and my PBH
> > > is only about 89cm-   I could probably stand over it without any shoes
> > > on, but *just*.     However, as you point out, everything's peachy
> > > when riding and is extremely comfortable-  I wouldn't want to go any
> > > smaller, the bar adjustment window would be too low, and I imagine the
> > > TT might feel too short.    From your photos, it looks as though
> > > you're able to get the bars right where you need them and that you got
> > > the perfect size.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Run Over Your Rambouillet, Get a Roadeo

[doug peterson]

While it's fun to get a new bike, that's a tough way to do so.  I
think I'd hang the damaged frame up somewhere in the garage as a
casual reminder of what can happen when one's attention wanders.
Could happen to any of us.

dougP

On Dec 9, 5:44 pm, Ray Shine  wrote:
> Welcome to the group!   So, how much would you take for the crunched frame?
>
> --- On Wed, 12/9/09, franklyn  wrote:
>
> From: franklyn 
> Subject: [RBW] Run Over Your Rambouillet, Get a Roadeo
> To: "RBW Owners Bunch" 
> Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 10:26 AM
>
> This is to return the thread to Hondo's original topic.
>
> I hope at least you have some sort of insurance to cover the loss of
> the Rambouillet, and that most of the parts are unharmed and can be
> transferred to the Roadeo.
>
> Pictures will be great!
>
> Franklyn
> (I don't have my car anywhere close to my bikes, that's for sure)
>
> On Dec 9, 9:13 am, Jon Grant  wrote:
>
> > D-dang, y¹all. This is real hard.
>
> > --
> > Jon ³Not Sinister, but Not All That Dexterous Neither² Grant, in CHILLY
> > Austin, Texas
>
> --
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[RBW] Re: panniers

[doug peterson]

For pannier mounts, I called Wayne at the Touring Store
(touringstore.com) & he had Ortlieb's attachments.  Don't recall what
they're called but they hook over the rack and have a clever little
roll over fitting that wraps around the rack tube.  I fitted these up
to some REI panniers that don't lock properly onto my Nitto rack
(tubing is too big).  Clean, neat fix.

Another adaptation that solves a lot problems is D-rings with small
tubing clamps (any hardware store) and either small bungies or shock
cord.  For instance, I found the 4 Velcro straps on my Acorn bag a bit
awkward, so I fitted the bottom with a couple of D-rings and tie it
down with a bungie.  Quicker & simpler than Acorn's design, easier to
remove and actually puts a bit of tension on the bag so it's more
secure.  With imagination you can make some clean adaptations.  Oh,
and their cheap as well.

dougP

On Dec 9, 5:58 pm, Seth Vidal  wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 8:35 PM, Brian Hanson  wrote:
> > BTW - for the post about the re-openable zip tie - just cut the old ones off
> > and use new ties when you want to put it back on.  They're super cheap - get
> > a big bag at a hardware store and you'll be set for years...
> > Brian
>
> I can't do that - it's much too wasteful. I don't like the idea of
> throwing something away like that.
>
> -sv

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[RBW] Re: Quickbeam Arrived Ten Minutes Ago!

[doug peterson]

Robert:

Thanks for checking the box size.  I was afeared of that when I saw
your photos.  The box Riv used is 149" (girth+length).  UPS & Fed Ex
have 130" as their magic number before going into oversize.  Maybe not
a huge hit with a commercial customer like Riv but I got hit with it
earlier this year, to the tune of something like $45.  It roughly
doubles the cost of shipping a bike within the lower 48.

Keep those photos coming; we're all interested in the finished
product.

dougP

On Dec 9, 4:29 pm, "Robert F. Harrison"  wrote:
> You're welcome. The packing is pretty amazing, though I'm glad I didn't
> spend a whole lot of time admiring it. :-)
>
> Before I forget, the box measures 55x37x10.
>
> As for work, I was coming down with a cold yesterday which I completely
> ignored in order to build the bike and take a ride. By the time I got back
> in last night I was pretty under the weather and last night was miserable. I
> ended up calling sick today. I suspect my co-workers think I stayed home to
> play with the bike. I wish.
>
> Still I did take the opportunity to clutter up the bike a bit. It was
> purchased to be a commuter, so I really need the fenders, I might have
> gotten away without the front rack, but I'm thinking of going with Sackville
> SlickerSack (to match my Sackville Saddlesack L) down the road (when I've
> got some money again).
>
> Aloha!
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 1:33 PM, doug peterson  wrote:
> > Robert:
>
> > Thanks for the photos!  Now I want a new bike just so I can open the
> > box!  I worked from home so when my Atlantis showed up, that was the
> > end of work for that dayand maybe a bit of the next.  They've
> > improved the packing.  The white tube protecting the headset and HT is
> > new, and the attachment for the block protecting the top of the seat
> > tube.  It amazes me that they got a 66 cm frame in a UPS box with the
> > rack.  Mine's 58 cm and in order to get into a box within the UPS
> > limits without going oversize, I have to take off the racks (rear
> > sticks up too high), seat, h'bars, & flip the forks round.  And then
> > it all just barely fits.  If you've still got the box, would you mind
> > measuring?  One of my touring buds has a 58 cm LHT and he gives up and
> > has a bike shop pack it.  I'm too stubborn (& cheap).
>
> > The completed bike is beautiful.  Every time I see new bike photos
> > like these, before it gets all rack'd'n'sack'd, I want to go rip all
> > that stuff off my bike so I can see it again.  Don't clutter it up too
> > much!
>
> > dougP
>
> > On Dec 9, 10:54 am, RoadieRyan  wrote:
> > > Brah your face must be hurting from all that smiling!  I am not sure
> > > if I am more Jealous of your new QB or the fact that you are in
> > > Hawaii!
>
> > > For context its been in the 20s and into the teens hear in the Pacific
> > > NW for the last week.  In Seattle we crumble once the temps go outside
> > > our 50 to 85 degree comfort zone  ;-)
>
> > > Thanks for sharing the photos, I have been hearing for a long time
> > > about the amazing Riv packing and all I can say after seeing your
> > > photos is .,wow
>
> > > Keep on Pedaling and Smiling
>
> > > Chapeau on a gorgeous bike.
>
> > > RR
>
> > > Abike and light-hearted, I take to the open road,
> > > Healthy, free, the world before me,
> > > The long brown path before me, leading wherever I choose.
> > > (with apologies to W.Wordsworth)
>
> > > On Dec 9, 9:37 am, Esteban  wrote:
>
> > > > > As for the actually fit when riding...perfect. Really perfect.
>
> > > > I think this is what a lot of us experience.  I could never imagine
> > > > fitting a 62, then I started riding mine, and fit is perfect.
>
> > > > Esteban
> > > > San Diego, Calif.
>
> > > > On Dec 9, 8:26 am, newenglandbike  wrote:
>
> > > > > On Dec 9, 12:09 am, "Robert F. Harrison" 
> > wrote:
>
> > > > > > I guess I should note that when I first straddle the bike I was
> > terribly
> > > > > > worried that it was too big. I'm a 95 pbh and this is a 66cm QB.
> > The thing
> > > > > > is, I could feel the top tube pretty high up there and had a
> > moment.
>
> > > > > > Then I realized I wasn't wearing shoes. I put on my normal riding
> > shoes
> > > > > > (just plain old New Balance wa

[RBW] Re: Would it be against the law - a tigged Rivendell?

[doug peterson]

My T-shirt says "Still Lugged Steel.  Vindication will come.  Just you
wait."
The answer to your question "don't you think Riv/Grant could do a
really good job on a tigged frame?" is of course "Yes, they could".
The follow on is "Why?".  They have developed a niche market that they
understand and serve well.  The notion of "sell more bikes, make more
money" isn't necessarily true.  The bicycle business (Shimano
excepted) is a tough place for anyone to make money.  Differentiating
yourself from the broader market (lugged frames) and selling to a
smaller but more appreciative clientele (us) is highly effective.
Bankruptcy courts are crowded with the bones of small companies that
felt they had to grow too fast.  My sense is they've got a decent
small business going, they know what they're doing, and they've got a
very clear identity in the market.  Sometimes the best decision is to
stick to what you do well and keep doing it.

dougP

On Dec 10, 4:16 pm, Tim McNamara  wrote:
> Well, I have a 1996 All Rounder (lugged), a ~1995 Ritchey (fillet  
> brazed) and a 1998 Gunnar Crosshairs (TIG).  Two of the three were  
> made in Waterford WI.
>
> The Gunnar rides great.  Handles superbly, light, stiff enough  
> (Reynolds 853 in those days).  But it doesn't inspire.  It's the  
> utility bike, the one I put in the trunk when I take a trip  
> somewhere, the one I ride in iffy weather but it's only the bike of  
> choice when I intend to ride a lot off road.  I don't go down to the  
> basement and say "I want to ride the Gunnar."  I go downstairs and  
> say "I want to ride the Riv" or "I want to ride the Ritchey."
>
> Neither the Riv nor the Ritchey have a superior ride to the Gunnar.  
> They're not exactly the same but they're all very good.  The Riv is  
> the most comfortable bike I have ever owned and is the most adaptable  
> bike I can imagine- it lives up to its name.  It's been a mountain  
> bike, a commuter bike, a racing club training ride bike, a  
> randonneuse and it's done them all with aplomb.  The Ritchey is  
> pretty comfortable and is the best-handling race bike I ever had,  
> better than any fancy Reparto Corsa Italian job or anything  
> specialized for racing.  I think that bike around corners, I don't  
> steer it.  The Gunnar sort of splits the difference between them and  
> handles particularly well off-road.
>
> But the Gunnar doesn't inspire and I think that is purely about  
> aesthetics.  The undeniable craftsmanship of the Gunnar frame is very  
> evident.  But TIG welds just don't move me the way a finely shaped  
> and filed lug does or the graceful curve of a fillet.  Call me  
> shallow and vain, it'd be true enough, but the aesthetic of TIG  
> doesn't do it for me.  I don't think it's a worse way to stick tubes  
> together from a mechanical perspective- TIG frames have proven to be  
> effective and durable.  I don't look down on TIG frames- they just  
> don't make my heart sing.  Obviously there are many people who feel  
> the opposite and more power to 'em.  I'm delighted that choices  
> remain in the world of cycling and we can all pick up something that  
> stirs us and makes us chafe to get out for a ride.
>
> As for a TIG'd Rivendell... it would ride like a Riv.  It would be  
> functionally the same as a Riv.  But it wouldn't be a Riv IMHO.  A  
> Riv to me is not defined by frame geometry or shellac or twine.  It's  
> defined by the overall aesthetic as expressed through the details-  
> the curving shoreline, the cutouts, the bar height relative to the  
> saddle, the fat tires, etc. etc.
>
> YMMV.

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[RBW] Re: AT 0154

[doug peterson]

I'm going to reveal my ignorance here but how do Sugino's AT cranks
differ from the XD?  My Atlantis came with XD triple cranks and a
cartridge 115 bb.  The chainline looked like the bb was too long but
everything worked.  When the original died, I replaced it with a 110.
Chainline is perfect.  The granny clears but not by much, so I have a
note to self to use 113 next time.  So what is about ATs that's so
different from XDs?

Side note on your seasonal desire for go-fast  vs touring:  Pop a set
if light wheels with racy tires on your Atlantis.  It completely
changes the character of the bike.  Looks funny as hell but it's a
different bike.

dougP

On Dec 9, 9:43 pm, rcnute  wrote:
> Lucked into a 56 Atlantis. Yar, thar be a fine vessel, be she.
>
> http://tiny.cc/63aSB
>
> To be finished once I get a long spindle BB for the Sugino AT cranks.
> I can't figure out if I want to go plain beige or crazy splash bar
> tape.
>
> Ryan

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[RBW] Re: Would it be against the law - a tigged Rivendell?

[doug peterson]

Riv/Grant are leaders, not followers.  A "tigged Atlantis" is called
an LHT.  Probability of Grant copying Surly is zero.

dougP

On Dec 10, 5:22 pm, eflayer  wrote:
> i did a search on "tigged" and did not find much.
>
> maybe Grant will surprise you/us and announce the Atlantis replacement
> will be tigged.  then he will have order new tee shirts.
>
> On Dec 10, 5:05 pm, erik jensen  wrote:
>
>
>
> > This topic is raised too often. The search function applies to conceptual
> > conversations, as well.
>
> > Thanks,
>
> > erik- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: AT 0154

[doug peterson]

Ryan:

The Atlantis will grow on you; it's so versatile you won't want to
part with it.  OK, you may want to leave it in fully touring mode and
add a lightweight go-fast, that I can understand.  But if you did let
it go, you'd miss it.  If you absolutely, positively need a dedicated
go-fast to keep the Atlantis company, maybe a Rodeo?  That's both ends
of the spectrum in the world of sensible bikes.

dougP

On Dec 10, 7:44 pm, rcnute  wrote:
> We'll see!  I do like catching and releasing, though if one is going
> to stick around with me I think this'll be it.  If not you're just an
> email away.  :)
>
> Ryan
>
> On Dec 10, 5:50 pm, Frankwurst  wrote:
>
>
>
> > I'll bet the Atlantis never goes up for sale. If it does let me know
> > Ryan. I'm on my third through my own ignorance but I'd be happy to
> > take that one off your hands if and when you decide to part ways. I
> > won't sell the one I have now but I'd give it a sister with a
> > different hairdo given the opportunity. Your going to like that bike.
> > If not you know where to find me.
>
> > On Dec 10, 7:13 pm, doug peterson  wrote:
>
> > > I'm going to reveal my ignorance here but how do Sugino's AT cranks
> > > differ from the XD?  My Atlantis came with XD triple cranks and a
> > > cartridge 115 bb.  The chainline looked like the bb was too long but
> > > everything worked.  When the original died, I replaced it with a 110.
> > > Chainline is perfect.  The granny clears but not by much, so I have a
> > > note to self to use 113 next time.  So what is about ATs that's so
> > > different from XDs?
>
> > > Side note on your seasonal desire for go-fast  vs touring:  Pop a set
> > > if light wheels with racy tires on your Atlantis.  It completely
> > > changes the character of the bike.  Looks funny as hell but it's a
> > > different bike.
>
> > > dougP
>
> > > On Dec 9, 9:43 pm, rcnute  wrote:
>
> > > > Lucked into a 56 Atlantis. Yar, thar be a fine vessel, be she.
>
> > > >http://tiny.cc/63aSB
>
> > > > To be finished once I get a long spindle BB for the Sugino AT cranks.
> > > > I can't figure out if I want to go plain beige or crazy splash bar
> > > > tape.
>
> > > > Ryan- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Old pictures of First bike Tour.

[doug peterson]

Manny:

Great story.  I love the pix of loading the bikes to take stuff back
to the car - pillows?  dogs?  Wow!
You guys have learned a lot in a short time.  One tour leads to
another:  where to next?

dougP

On Dec 9, 5:13 am, Mark  wrote:
> Manny,
>      THAT was an awsome story! Way to go! It expresses what is really
> important in life and I am so proud of you and, Duy and Ryan. I am all
> alone out here in NC but I feel inspired to do something similar.
>
> Congratulations on clearing out the head and reviving the heart!
>
> Surf

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[RBW] Re: Would it be against the law - a tigged Rivendell?

[doug peterson]

JIm:

I'm not normally a tweed sort of guy but that Nigel Smith on the LHT
absolutely belongs on that bike.  What a nice, tidy touch. I've never
seen an LHT set up other than as a tourer.  The Atlantis is highly
adaptable (you were up to what, version 8.0?) so the LHT should be
equally so.

RE:  LHT as a touring bike.  Out in the real world where touring bikes
get junked up with racks and loaded down with all manner of gear, the
LHT is arguably the single most common bike.  You'll see all manner of
adapted MTBs, old racing bikes cobbled into tourers, 80s vintage
Japanese tourers, etc.  But for people who've decided to pop for a
dedicated touring bike, the LHT does the job.  A touring bike gets
pretty rough treatment, getting partially dis-assembled, packed,
shipped, leaned against trees, dropped, tossed into the back of
trucks, and generally abused.  I know, my Atlantis has more scratches
and gouges than I can count (OK, the fork stuff was self-inflicted by
my need for more fittings).  Several of my touring buds have LHTs and
none of us can see any difference in ride, handling, etc. between the
two.  Functionally, no difference.  Financially, big difference.  You
pays your money & takes your choice.  I'm just thankful I got my
Atlantis back when the whole bike cost what the frame does now.
Yikes!

dougP

On Dec 11, 12:57 pm, cm  wrote:
> If "the man" is the idea that carbon fiber is the only real material
> that serious cyclists consider-- that everything else is a compromise,
> then i think being anti-"the man" is a plus. That is how I interpret
> Surly's ads-- we make good, smart bikes that arent what the
> Bicylcling's Buyers Guide tell you to buy. And i think that on a
> smaller scale (and toned down a bit) Riv has the same message.
>
> As for a TIG'd Riv-- if it could be US made-- then maybe, if not, I
> really hope it never happens. That market is well covered, now more
> than ever.
>
> Cheers!
> cm

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[RBW] Re: a study in contrasts

[doug peterson]

Check out the recent discussion under "My Quickbeam arrived 10 minutes
ago".  The poster was kind enough to photo how Riv packs a bike (an
awesome job).  They use a specific foam block to protect the seat
cluster, and even mount it to a plug that goes in the ST.  The block
is maybe 4" thick.
The downside is the box is 37" tall x 10" wide x 55" long.  The 37"
dim is uncommonly high for a bike box.  Most are sized to fit into the
FedEx & UPS window of 130" max combined girth & length.  A box 30 x 50
x 10 just squeeks in and that's tight for my 58.  The Riv box dims out
at 149" which incurs the oversize charge of IIIRC $45.  But that's
cheap compared to the mental anguish of frame damage.
FWIW, I've incurred damage (nothing like yours, though) from FedEx,
UPS, UAL & Alaska Airlines.  I insure the Atlantis for $3K and hope
somewhere in the shipping instructions that gets their attention &
they say "Take it easy, this one's gonna cost us if we mess it up".

dougP

On Dec 11, 3:05 pm, Seth Vidal  wrote:
> This is not a rivendell bike but it is modern lugged steel. I thought
> I would share these contrasting photos with everyone. Consider this a
> cautionary tale:
>
> Before Fedex:http://farm1.static.flickr.com/23/34509120_bc65826f8a_b.jpg
>
> After 
> Fedex:http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2564/4168606752_4b2c42d852_b.jpghttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2726/4167843761_5075a6b405_b.jpg
>
> Friends don't let friends use fedex.
>
> If anyone is interested I will post more details of my saga trying to
> get this fixed.
>
> -sv

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[RBW] Re: Old pictures of First bike Tour.

[doug peterson]

Manny:

An excellent resource for touring the area is "Bicycling the Pacific
Coast" by Vicky Spring & Tom Kirkendall, from the Mountaineer Press in
Seattle.  I've used this book for over 20 years, currently on the 4th
edition.  They did the original research and now update as people send
in new info.  Mileages, elev profiles, camp sites, parks, it's got it
all.  It's perfect for your planning purposes.  Don't leave home
without it!

dougP

On Dec 11, 10:21 am, manueljohnacosta 
wrote:
> Thanks for the kind words.
> The plan for this year is to make it all the way down to LA. Same trip
> more friends. More organized sag wagons. Thing is most of my friends
> are at the moment in their lives where they must go through the task
> of finding a job. So we'll see if we get a good group to head down
> there. So far it's in it's early planning stages. Most likely we'll
> just wing the route, but get the camping sites earlier.
>
> -Manny

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[RBW] Re: Our New Bike Catalog Is On The Site

[doug peterson]

John:

OK, someone's got to whine and nit-pick, & today it's my turn:  2009
has less than 3 weeks left.  Is it too late to make it a 2010
catalogue?  Just sayin'.

dougP

On Dec 11, 10:22 am, John Bennett  wrote:
> a sneak preview can be found by following this to a PDF
>
> http://www.rivbike.com/blogs/knothole_post/174
>
> Cheers,
>
> John

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[RBW] Re: Our New Bike Catalog Is On The Site

[doug peterson]

Hey, try to find "beaussage" in the dictionary - it's all part of the
charm.  I love the B&W photos!

dougP

On Dec 11, 6:01 pm, Mike  wrote:
> I don't know if that's correct or not but it wouldn't be Rivendell
> literature without some typos.
>
> On Dec 11, 5:52 pm, ercarlso@spamex.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > Is "nicities" spelled correctly on page 22?  I'm looking at the
> > "original_bike_cat_FINAL_nospread.pdf" version.
>
> > I like that the bikes are now being marketed as "safe and strong," I
> > think that is a very good idea.
>
> > Erin
>
> > On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 10:22 AM, John Bennett  wrote:
> > > * Replies will be sent through Spamex to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
> > > * For additional info click ->http://www.spamex.com/i/?v=15386259
>
> > > a sneak preview can be found by following this to a PDF
>
> > >http://www.rivbike.com/blogs/knothole_post/174
>
> > > Cheers,
>
> > > John
>
> > > --
>
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
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> > > For more options, visit this group 
> > > athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.- Hide quoted 
> > > text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: RR # "forty-something/late 2009": out for Xmas?

[doug peterson]

We just got the 2009 catalogue.  My un-educated guess is the next RR
is a ways off.  Someone's got to assemble that batch of Rodeos for
Christmas!

dougP

On Dec 11, 6:00 pm, Mike  wrote:
> I thought it would be out by now. Didn't Grant mention something about
> it being out in a month a month or so ago?
>
> --mike
>
> On Dec 11, 5:47 pm, PATRICK MOORE  wrote:
>
>
>
> > The last one I saw was last summer. Anything since?
>
> > --
> > Patrick Moore
> > Albuquerque, NM
> > For professional resumes, contact
> > Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com
> > (505) 227-0523- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Demographic? --Was LHT & tigged Rivendell?

[doug peterson]

I'll bet the Rivendell demographic is so diverse and scattered as to
defy marketing logic.  There are probably people riding Rivs who live
a student lifestyle (rent a room; no car) as well as fanatic bicycle
collectors (the more rare & exotic, the more interesting).  The bell
curve is probably pretty narrow in the middle (...'middle aged and
well off enough") with a statistically disturbing number of
outliers :).  Personally, I enjoy an inner chuckle when someone
comments "Wow, nice old bike!".

dougP

On Dec 11, 8:04 pm, Tim McNamara  wrote:
> On Dec 11, 2009, at 11:56 AM, Ray Shine wrote:
>
> > For the money, it's hard to beat an LHT.
>
> That's true, although I'd lean towards a Gordon BLT.
>
> > And that begs the question: who does comprise the "typical"  
> > Rivendell marketing demographic?
>
> Usually middle aged and well off enough to have a pretty good amount  
> of disposable income.

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