[RCSE] For Sale: New WinchDoc winch
Folks. I know there's a lot of you out there trying to get Doug to build you one of these Well it's your lucky day. I have a brand new Winchdoc winch that I picked up from Doug 6 months ago. I have only used it for one day to test it out. We only launched my friends Genie a handfull of times. i ususally just fly off the club winches and don't have a lot of time to fly anymore. Comes with line and extra spools. I'm in the Seattle area and would love to sell it locally but will ship if need be. $950 + shipping Jared _ Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
RE: [RCSE] Flying wings for F3J or F3B
For a reality (sort of) check, go fly the Taborca on FMS. Now the problem may be the carbon landing skid which is black, and the rear dorsal skeg on the bottom which makes it look like it's flying upside down. The visual que and saving grace are the two 13 winglets pointing in the right direction. http://www.scalesoaring.net/EMM/FMS/fmspage.htm JD Endless Mountain Models http://www.scalesoaring.com email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: George Gillburg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 1:18 AM To: Bill Swingle Cc: John Derstine; 'Adam Till Cal'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [RCSE] Flying wings for F3J or F3B Bill Swingle wrote: However, I've been told that thermal flyers find it difficult to fly a plane well without the visual indicator of a tail. Bill Swingle I've heard that but I don't see it. I flew a flying wing in TD contests for several years and never had any real problems with knowing which way it was going. Of course, if you're referring to seeing the tail kick up as an indication of lift, then yes, a flying wing will be deficient in that department. I finally gave up on the wings because I couldn't consistently launch as high as the conventional sailplanes. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
RE: [RCSE] Soaring, TD, Icon, NASCAR...
Wiley has finally departed to the great thermal in the sky after almost two decades of cross-country soaring. Joe, is there another soaring story that needs to be shared with the group? Hummm? It may help with your grief. ;-) Pastor Bill -Original Message- From: Joe Wurts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 10:14 PM To: RCSE Subject: [RCSE] Soaring, TD, Icon, NASCAR... It isn't even GPS season yet. I wish that there was a way to transmute the standard TD contest into a soaring contest, but it just isn't going to happen. Every so often a soaring contest breaks out in the middle of a TD event, but not that often out here in the west. Typically, the thermal portion is just a minor barrier to be stepped over before the real money is made or lost in the landing circle. My view is that I like soaring events. If the precision flying with respect to the ground is what was important to me, I would have taken up pattern flying. In other words, I don't really look at landing proficiency in the same light as I do soaring proficiency. I can say that I've won, and lost, the biggest events in the world due to landings. But what I treasure are the soaring flights in these events, not drilling the plane into the sod accurately. Fortunately, there are some real soaring events out there for the intrepid of heart. A couple of weeks ago I attended what I consider the pinnacle of soaring flying, a cross-country contest. And even better, all of the competitors flew for a large portion of the day, with some for more than seven hours on Saturday. The average distance flown on Saturday was 64 miles per team, with the top three teams getting more than 90 miles. Note, this is in a single flight, not an add-em-up. Yup, conditions were good, although it was shut down early when a layer of mid altitude stratus moved over the area. Lots of people flying a soaring contest, and the landings were measured not with a tape, but an odometer! There are other contests that are all about soaring, and not so much about landing. HLG is a good one. It is all about reading and working the air, with a derived requirement for good control of the airplane both for thermalling, and in the turnaround when the conditions are good. F3B is a pre-eminent example, although it has some other challenges which make it more difficult to learn. BTW, if you can't handle your plane properly, you cannot soar well, so I'm not sure that I totally agree about the airplane handling justification for the emphasis on landings are merited. To paraphrase Bozo, I got the plane that I designed... And I finally figured out how to design the airplane that matches my flying style, which is what it is all about. Find out what floats your boat, and LEARN how to fly it. The plane of the month club members typically don't earn much wood in the winners circle. I also happen to believe that it gives me an advantage, but your mileage may vary. It is just that it is such a good match for how I want an airplane to fly. Of course, this won't stop my search for the next world beater! NASCAR. The rules that they are using are silly for measuring the best team in the season. But, they work well for the advertising. Guess what, NASCAR isn't about the racing, it is about a very large, and very successful, business. If a team has wrapped up the season championship in points well before the last race, fewer people are going to be watching, which means lower advertising revenue. Not exactly an appropriate analogy for soaring, as much fun as it would be... DP did note that it does match up fairly well with F3J. Throwing out the preliminary scores just doesn't make much sense to a lot of people. Back to lurking, Joe Wurts PS A moment of silence is requested for my now deceased XC ship, Wile E.s Revenge. Wiley has finally departed to the great thermal in the sky after almost two decades of cross-country soaring. Time to design the next generation XC ship after a suitable mourning period. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] Re: Contests, Landings, etc. and Urban Legends :-)
To coin Ronald Regan, There you go again Gordy, Spreading your disinformation. Does credibility every bother you? The numbers are down. The AMA reported it (factually). The age of the mass of pilots are getting older. Some can't fly, some pass on... The numbers of young pilots aren't replacing the number of aging pilots. Our ESL contest numbers show it. My clubs social numbers show it. Moldies being backordered do nothing to prove your point. Easily 30 or more balsa kits can be produced in a day... Probably more I don't have the numbers. How many moldies can be produced in a week??? Therefore the wait. I am glad you have more newbies in your club. I hope that you stay away from them so that they don't get discouraged or disillusioned. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: /Yep, people are leaving the hobby/ // *Yep, they arenot. Let's see, people are leaving soaring and that's why Hitec, JR, MPX are creating even more sailplane specific TX's. And why all the 'new' servos introduced by those and the other Mfgr's are sailplane oriented..mounts, configuration, torque etc.* ** *Its why inspite of mulitple suppliers of moldies around the world are back ordered up to 2 years.* ** *Yep its on the decline...yet there are more winch suppliers than ever before in our hobbies history.* ** *Less and less, is why there are now ARF balsa and covered RES ships available from major suppliers like Great Planes and Horizon.* ** *Yep the hobby is losing us fast, but not cuz of lack of interest or emotionally destructive landing tasks, but because of all those kidneys stolen while sailplaners are asleep in their motel rooms, for sale to the black market! .Really!* ** *We now have more newbies in our Louisville Club than maybe in its history! Its sickening to have to wait in line to get a relaunch!* ** *Gordy* *Gordy:-)* -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] F3X at Visalia
Hello Soaring Fans, F3X will have a tent at Visalia again this year probably on the North end of vendor's row. I will have with me: Mini Falcons Seiko Stopwatches (only about 10) F3X Chutes NEW JR XP9303 TX sets JR DS368 DS168 servos Prodij slope ships F3F NYX Artemis LT V X 21 LT F3B/F3J winch (Great for F3J practice) Super servo cover tape. Extra clear 1/2 wide. Some Gambler wing sets for you builders. F3X Skeg box kits. And A few other things, come on over and visit while you check out the new XP9303 radio. I will try and have a model mock up there so you can play with the programming via the DSC cord. Tom Copp Composite Specialties www.f3x.com 949-645-7032 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
RE: [RCSE] LISF Fall contest report
Now that's what I like about contests. Interesting things happen! Rick At 01:29 AM 9/28/2004 -0400, Phil Barnes wrote: -Original Message- From: Anker Berg-Sonne but I wonder what happened to Jose and especially Mark. Jose is flying his MH-32 Mantis really well, and I thought Mark was right up with the winners. The only interesting incident was when one of the sportsmen's Manti lost a tail on launch. Anker, you must have missed the most interesting thing that happened on Saturday. It's also the thing that explains what happened to Mark (and maybe Jose, I'm not sure). It all began with round six. Mike Lachowski and John Jenks put a minute on me in that round by flying way off to some thermal that I didn't know about. That was enough to knock me out of contention for first and also put me in a mood for shoveling dirt on those who were now in the lead. After that round Tom Kiesling kindly pointed out that I could probably achieve higher launches if I stayed on the line a little longer. That brings us to the seventh and final round with a devilishly dangerous 15 minute task. I stepped up to the winches announcing to all who were within earshot that they were now dealing with a wounded animal (me) and they better be careful. With Tom Kiesling's advice in mind I stayed on the winch line a little longer this time. Now, Tom didn't tell me to dive too deep and too long on the zoom but my timing was thrown off by doing the launch a little differently than I had all day, so you guessed it, I snagged the winch line on the pull up from the zoom. The next thing I saw was the plane doing a couple fast, violent snap rolls with the winch line somehow attached to parts unknown of the model. Meanwhile, John Hauf was dutifully pedaling down the winch line (just like at the NATS, no retrievers, wind the chutes down to the turnarounds after launch), unaware that anything was amiss. John wouldn't have been standing on that winch pedal had he known that my model was still snagged on the line but it turns out that his actions actually freed my model from the winch line. The cost of freeing my model from the winch line was the loss of my rudder which was seen to be fluttering to the ground as the model flew peacefully away. I had about ten or twenty seconds to curse loudly and bemoan my humiliating situation before realizing that although I was only at about 150' of altitude and without a rudder, I was nevertheless in a rather nice thermal. While the other three members of my flight group took their full launches and ran off to parts unknown in search of a thermal, I merrily circled away and climbed ever higher. All of my turns were awkward and uncoordinated but with all that lift, who cares about coordination? My course of action was now clear. I would stay with that thermal until the rest of the flight group was on the ground or I could no longer see the model. For the next six or seven minutes I flew the model and tracked the thermal as best I could while attempting to get my timer to understand that I really wanted to know what the other guys in my flight group were doing. By the time that was all sorted out and the other guys in the group had landed, my model was but a tiny speck on the horizon. It was now safe to leave that thermal and return to the field. The model was so high and so far downwind at that point that no one else could see it unless I pitched up momentarily to show the bottom of the model. I finished the 15 minute task and even got some landing points, all without a rudder. So that's what happened to Mark (and maybe Jose). He/they had the misfortune of being in a flight group with a very lucky wounded animal. Phil RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] Urban Legends :-) beating up Gordy
Jeff, Don't you think thats a little harsh ! The man travels, like I use to, he sees more people in and out of the business, and is surely intelligent enuff to gain a perspective on what he is looking at. Granted, some of what Gordy says may be treated with a grain of salt, Some (most) not... I have found myself , at times, wanting to get away from his Grandeurous verbage, however! I feel this man has done quite a bit from the trenches, and not the top, to promote the hobby personally and in written form. Optimism, (that would be half full versus half empty), is always a better view, than the constant pessimistic view that we are all doomed as presented by many. Thanks for your observations, I hope that you have enjoyed mine, and Thank You for YOUR support ! Jack --Jack Strother Granger, IN LSF 2948 LSF Level V #117 LSF Official 1996 - 2004 CSS Gold -- Original message -- To coin Ronald Regan, There you go again Gordy, Spreading your disinformation. Does credibility every bother you? The numbers are down. The AMA reported it (factually). The age of the mass of pilots are getting older. Some can't fly, some pass on... The numbers of young pilots aren't replacing the number of aging pilots. Our ESL contest numbers show it. My clubs social numbers show it. Moldies being backordered do nothing to prove your point. Easily 30 or more balsa kits can be produced in a day... Probably more I don't have the numbers. How many moldies can be produced in a week??? Therefore the wait. I am glad you have more newbies in your club. I hope that you stay away from them so that they don't get discouraged or disillusioned.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:/Yep, people are leaving the hobby/ // *Yep, they arenot. Let's see, people are leaving soaring and that's why Hitec, JR, MPX are creating even more sailplane specific TX's. And why all the 'new' servos introduced by those and the other Mfgr's are sailplane oriented..mounts, configuration, torque etc.* ** *Its why inspite of mulitple suppliers of moldies around the world are back ordered up to 2 years.* ** *Yep its on the decline...yet there are more winch suppliers than ever before in our hobbies history.* ** *Less and less, is why there are now ARF balsa and covered RES ships available from major suppliers like Great Planes and Horizon.* ** *Yep the hobby is losing us fast, but not cuz of lack of interest or emotionally destructive landing tasks, but because of all those kidneys stolen while sailplaners are asleep in their motel rooms, for sale to the black market! .Really!* ** *We now have more newbies in our Louisville Club than maybe in its history! Its sickening to have to wait in line to get a relaunch!* ** *Gordy* *Gordy:-)* -- Jeff SteifelRCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] LISF Fall contest report
Yea, that one made my save file. The best part of that story was that I didn't look to see who posted it until after I read it. That should make it into RCSD. -Ben Rick Eckel wrote: Now that's what I like about contests. Interesting things happen! Rick At 01:29 AM 9/28/2004 -0400, Phil Barnes wrote: -Original Message- From: Anker Berg-Sonne but I wonder what happened to Jose and especially Mark. Jose is flying his MH-32 Mantis really well, and I thought Mark was right up with the winners. The only interesting incident was when one of the sportsmen's Manti lost a tail on launch. Anker, you must have missed the most interesting thing that happened on Saturday. It's also the thing that explains what happened to Mark (and maybe Jose, I'm not sure). It all began with round six. Mike Lachowski and John Jenks put a minute on me in that round by flying way off to some thermal that I didn't know about. That was enough to knock me out of contention for first and also put me in a mood for shoveling dirt on those who were now in the lead. After that round Tom Kiesling kindly pointed out that I could probably achieve higher launches if I stayed on the line a little longer. That brings us to the seventh and final round with a devilishly dangerous 15 minute task. I stepped up to the winches announcing to all who were within earshot that they were now dealing with a wounded animal (me) and they better be careful. With Tom Kiesling's advice in mind I stayed on the winch line a little longer this time. Now, Tom didn't tell me to dive too deep and too long on the zoom but my timing was thrown off by doing the launch a little differently than I had all day, so you guessed it, I snagged the winch line on the pull up from the zoom. The next thing I saw was the plane doing a couple fast, violent snap rolls with the winch line somehow attached to parts unknown of the model. Meanwhile, John Hauf was dutifully pedaling down the winch line (just like at the NATS, no retrievers, wind the chutes down to the turnarounds after launch), unaware that anything was amiss. John wouldn't have been standing on that winch pedal had he known that my model was still snagged on the line but it turns out that his actions actually freed my model from the winch line. The cost of freeing my model from the winch line was the loss of my rudder which was seen to be fluttering to the ground as the model flew peacefully away. I had about ten or twenty seconds to curse loudly and bemoan my humiliating situation before realizing that although I was only at about 150' of altitude and without a rudder, I was nevertheless in a rather nice thermal. While the other three members of my flight group took their full launches and ran off to parts unknown in search of a thermal, I merrily circled away and climbed ever higher. All of my turns were awkward and uncoordinated but with all that lift, who cares about coordination? My course of action was now clear. I would stay with that thermal until the rest of the flight group was on the ground or I could no longer see the model. For the next six or seven minutes I flew the model and tracked the thermal as best I could while attempting to get my timer to understand that I really wanted to know what the other guys in my flight group were doing. By the time that was all sorted out and the other guys in the group had landed, my model was but a tiny speck on the horizon. It was now safe to leave that thermal and return to the field. The model was so high and so far downwind at that point that no one else could see it unless I pitched up momentarily to show the bottom of the model. I finished the 15 minute task and even got some landing points, all without a rudder. So that's what happened to Mark (and maybe Jose). He/they had the misfortune of being in a flight group with a very lucky wounded animal. Phil RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] LSF Historical Event!!
Wow, what a month! It gives me great pleasure to announce that Don Harris has completed his THIRD time through the LSF program and is now officially the League of Silent Flight's 118th Level V. And, it's the 4th one I've processed this month. Don accomplished the journey from Level 1 to Level V in 29 months. His other journeys took 60 and 50 months. Oh, and if you're curious, the fastest time ever through the program was 27 months. Please join the officers of the LSF in congratulating Don on his very special achievement. Respectfully submitted, Jim Deck RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] JR 9303 Redeux
The flourish of 9303 posts has diminished. Here is one specific example of it's versatility for programming sailplanes It opens up possibilities heretofore unavailable in any radio regardless of price, let alone at a $600.00 price point. I just programmed the LET Sperber 4.5 meter electric with an 8 servo wing. Flaps, inner ailerons, outer ailerons, top spoilers. In this case the outer two ailerons are Y corded together, but if they were not, these could easily be mixed to an aileron or rudder channel, and there would be two mix values available plus the availability of flight modes to select various trim settings in each of these two mix values. If this were a scale ship, to accommodate the use of a retract and tow release plus maybe a brake, you could easily use matchboxes for increased flexibility or a channel expander for switched functions (up to four on a channel). A six servo wing with spoilers sharing a channel would be even simpler. Example: In the Sperber I assigned motor control to the BUTF lever (throttle stick), proportional spoilers to the right slider channel, and then using flight modes I actually was able to assign full spoiler deployment to the landing mode with full flaps. This was set on a second mix switch so it could be turned off and on. The end result was that you could either have independent proportional spoiler control, Flaps and full spoilers on a landing switch, or flaps alone with proportional spoilers for glide path control. All this plus elevator comp in all modes, plus a flap trimmer on the right slider. Wow! By the way, the throttle hold feature is like getting an extra channel. Using flight modes you can program the electric motor to run off a switch or proportional stick/lever and have it become inactive (throttle hold) when in a chosen flight mode. The assigned stick or lever can then have another function entirely such as flap or spoiler control. I am sure there are many other undiscovered possibilities. Also with the addition of two matchboxes on say, two of six aileron flap channels, a whole new range of possibilities become available. Big advantage: Lightning fast programming via the spin a click cricket wheel. One finger does it all. JD Endless Mountain Models http://www.scalesoaring.com email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] Re: Definition of Acceleration
In a message dated 9/27/2004 9:35:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Simon Van Leeuwen writes: Assuming all the equipment is paid off, the crew worked for free, and for once NOTHING BLOWS UP, each run costs an estimated $1,000.00 per second. So if they would just go twice as fast, it would cost half as much, right? ;-) Stan RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] LISF Fall contest report
So that's what happened to Mark (and maybe Jose). He/they had the misfortune of being in a flight group with a very lucky wounded animal. Phil Yes, I was in that group... When I first heard the pop, on my way to the landing area, followed by your scream and out of the corner of my eye saw something floating down I though you were out (at least for that round)... At any rate that was the flight of the day (along with Mark's save - two hi-speed loops at 60 feet with his back turned to the plane), nice save! Jose ___ | 0 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] Re: Contests, Landings, etc. and Urban Legends :-)
Now children, if you can't play nice, get into car racing. There's no room for this in our hobby. Dan Jeff Steifel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To coin Ronald Regan, There you go again Gordy,Spreading your disinformation. Does credibility every bother you?The numbers are down. The AMA reported it (factually).The age of the mass of pilots are getting older. Some can't fly, some pass on...The numbers of young pilots aren't replacing the number of aging pilots.Our ESL contest numbers show it.My clubs social numbers show it.Moldies being backordered do nothing to prove your point. Easily 30 or more balsa kits can be produced in a day... Probably more I don't have the numbers.How many moldies can be produced in a week??? Therefore the wait.I am glad you have more newbies in your club.I hope that you stay away from them so that they don't get discouraged or disillusioned.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: /Yep, people are leaving the hobby/ // *Yep, they arenot. Let's see, people are leaving soaring and that's why Hitec, JR, MPX are creating even more sailplane specific TX's. And why all the 'new' servos introduced by those and the other Mfgr's are sailplane oriented..mounts, configuration, torque etc.* ** *Its why inspite of mulitple suppliers of moldies around the world are back ordered up to 2 years.* ** *Yep its on the decline...yet there are more winch suppliers than ever before in our hobbies history.* ** *Less and less, is why there are now ARF balsa and covered RES ships available from major suppliers like Great Planes and Horizon.* ** *Yep the hobby is losing us fast, but not cuz of lack of interest or emotionally destructive landing tasks, but because of all those kidneys stolen while sailplaners are asleep in their motel rooms, for sale to the black market! .Really!* ** *We now have more newbies in our Louisville Club than maybe in its history! Its sickening to have to wait in line to get a relaunch!* ** *Gordy* *Gordy:-)*-- Jeff SteifelRCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] It's not the contest, it's the people
Ah, yes, the ever pervasive landing contest discussions, with the elusive better format which can't seem to be found. It's confounded by a couple of simple facts. (1) different strokes for different folks, and those that are dissatisfied aren't finding the contest to match their 'stroke'. (2) The pilots and the competition develop to the point where you have to look for hair-splitting factors to decide a 'winner'. (Thus, landings come into play as it's the only other objective measure we have available). I haven't heard *anybody* say they go to a contest because they enjoy 'flying' (those guys just go out and fly alone or with 1 or two friends on a lazy weekend day. In fact, many of those guys state they stay AWAY simply because of that). Many say it's for social interaction with your brethren, (and the format really doesn't seem to bother these guys, they'll fly whatever whenever and have a good time just in hanging out with each other). And many (like myself) are out for the kill ... er, I guess that would be competitive my skills against your skills (and in the competitive arena, everything matters, pilot, plane, radio ... particularly at the top level, as it DOES take hair-splitting measures to figure out who's the best this week!) (but I wouldn't know about that!) I don't know of a format that would *really* shake things up as to make it exciting for everyone. Give the killers their way, and the newbies are lucky to be flying on the same field. Make it competitive for the newbies, you have to remove some of the 'hair-splitting' factors, so you limit airframes (only wood???), limit performance factors (in/out landings? short lines?), limit whatever, and the killers become disgruntle because they don't get to use their hair-splitting advantage, and get bored. *I* think answer (can't believe I'm going to say this) is to diversify. I was bored with the same ol' same old at the local contest, until I started to travel to other local contests and encountered 'different' formats. That made it more fun. Even our own local format became more fun, as it became 'different' than the rest. Then, when the local circuit started to become somewhat ho-hum, moving onto the regional circuit again spiced up everything. You see, I think the biggest strike against any one 'contest' is it tends to be the same over and over, and for those who choose not to travel (or can't travel) to get some diversity, it becomes mundane and you start to lose interest. The clubs should be open to different formats, and change it regularly. You'll find some formats that worked well, others that didn't, but there certainly are enough options out there to make it interesting to virtually everyone at some point in time. So, all this discussion on 'this is better than that' or 'why can't we do this'? Well, for the first point, try it and find out! For the second, there's no reason you can't, if you're willing to input a little energy into helping make the change. I'm working to become a CD in our area, because I want to try some different formats, and I've heard some good ideas out there. In fact, I'm organizing an impromptu 'contest' this upcoming weekend, just to try out a format that only a select few have had the opportunity to enjoy. No trophies, just bragging rights before winter shuts down the 'thermal' season. You know, this group of soaring enthusiasts, to me, have been the greatest people I've ever encountered. Nice, interesting, willing to give you the servo out of their wing so you can keep going. I've never participated in any sport/hobby that had nearly as great personality as this group of flyers. That being said, we do have one shortcoming I've observed. We tend to be a bit lazy, and want things delivered to us, rather than having to work to make it happen. This isn't everyone, in fact it's barely the majority, but it seems to be the (growing) majority. I don't know of a single place where it's not just one or two (or 5) people who really keep it going for the other 10, 20, or 200! Yea, we all pitch in on occasion. I think it makes us feel better, 'cause we know that it really wasn't much work. And I think we're all very thankful for the guys that grunt it out doing most of the work. But generally, someone else will tend to the problem. Throw out your ideas, volunteer to help get them implemented. Try something different, and analyze the results. You don't have to do the same thing over and over if you really don't want to. Whew! And you guys thought the posts on Icons was a bunch of drivel. I think I've become the drivel master! Flame away, but send it directly to me. Let the list move on! I want to hear Joe's story! (o...postman says my 9303 is here I think I'll take the rest of the day off!) -Les Grammer -NWSS RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests
[RCSE] Don Harris
What a featDon is one of soaring's great people..And a dear friend of mine.. He was also the first LSF 5 east of the Mississippi... Bravo,cheers, and a big congratulations to you DonBrian Smith RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] [Fwd: Re: Urban Legends :-) beating up Gordy]
I sent this to Jack offline, but since some of you feel I was too hard, perhaps I was but I have a little history with Gordy, On the whole he isn't a bad guy. Actually probably an ok guy. But a straight shooter he isn't. I wish I hadn't wasted my time or money on some of his recommendations... Here is the email I sent back to Jack... I have more issues... it got personal at a contest. It shouldn't have but he made it that way. -- Jeff Steifel ---BeginMessage--- Jack, what you said is true...but I have on more than one occassion 3 or 4 been burnt by Gordie's lack of creditibility. I also had Gordy time for me at a contest. He wouldn't read the watch in up time, walked away to carry on a conversation and didn't come back until 20-30 seconds left... I was specked...made phone calls while timing for me he was the worst timer and most arrogant I had ever teamed up with. Everyone was teamed up so I was stuck with him. I was returning after being off for a year while working on the house. The fact that he refused to give me time the way I wanted it was You fill in the blank. I have watched him spew more crap and disinformation Yes it is hard But the numbers don't reflect his statements. He does this all the time. Ask me about Volz servos (bad shafts that under warranty cost $8 a piece to repair repeatedly until they got the hardness right)... Ask me about a watch that he wrote about in RCSD, I emailed him asking him if it had this capability and that oh yea.. What a piece of junk that had none of the capability Now I sometimes agree with him, but, it is the slants that bother me. I also watched him not appear on time twice at the nats and launched last because he is so special. Anyone in the top contention should not have been allowed the lattitude he was shown. Other pilots commented to the same effect I wasn't the only one who noticed... It was nice to use all those planes in the air as markers... They were up so far in advance of him, it was a no brainer where the air was. If he was in slot it might have been different. I just lost my job yesterday after 7 years and bringing in lots of money to the company, and probably the anger was a little mis-directed, but he sort of intimated that we are doing well as a hobby, and this isn't true. Since he mailed me personally back, as well as the group, I took a shot. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeff, Don't you think thats a little harsh ! The man travels, like I use to, he sees more people in and out of the business, and is surely intelligent enuff to gain a perspective on what he is looking at. Granted, some of what Gordy says may be treated with a grain of salt, Some (most) not... I have found myself , at times, wanting to get away from his Grandeurous verbage, however! I feel this man has done quite a bit from the trenches, and not the top, to promote the hobby personally and in written form. Optimism, (that would be half full versus half empty), is always a better view, than the constant pessimistic view that we are all doomed as presented by many. Thanks for your observations, I hope that you have enjoyed mine, and Thank You for YOUR support ! Jack -- Jack Strother Granger, IN LSF 2948 LSF Level V #117 LSF Official 1996 - 2004 CSS Gold -- Original message -- To coin Ronald Regan, There you go again Gordy, Spreading your disinformation. Does credibility every bother you? The numbers are down. The AMA reported it (factually). The age of the mass of pilots are getting older. Some can't fly, some pass on... The numbers of young pilots aren't replacing the number of aging pilots. Our ESL contest numbers show it. My clubs social numbers show it. Moldies being backordered do nothing to prove your point. Easily 30 or more balsa kits can be produced in a day... Probably more I don't have the numbers. How many moldies can be produced in a week??? Therefore the wait. I am glad you have more newbies in your club. I hope that you stay away from them so that they don't get discouraged or disillusioned. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: /Yep, people are leaving the hobby/ // *Yep, they arenot. Let's see, people are leaving soaring and that's why Hitec, JR, MPX are creating even more sailplane specific TX's. And why all the 'new' servos introduced by those and the other Mfgr's are sailplane oriented..mounts, configuration, torque etc.* ** *Its why inspite of mulitple suppliers of moldies around the world are back ordered up to 2 years.* ** *Yep its on the decline...yet there are more winch suppliers than ever before in our hobbies history.* ** *Less and less, is why there are now ARF balsa and covered RES ships available from major
[RCSE] Vampire for sale
I have a Tom Finch Vampire for sale. Only flown about three days but I still managed to hit a wire on landing so it has a cosmetic dink in a wing tip. Orange top with Dk Blue bottoms Built up elevator. 450.00 with out servos 700.00 with new Volts Micro Maxx + shipping Dr. Dan Williams RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] September is almost over and....
We have beat landings, Gordy, and a few other things to death this month Does that meanthat October is bashing vender month? I just want to be sure to be up on the current bashing list. Besides, how long has it been sensewe had a goodVendor bash. LMAO :^P Shows you that we have some good people supporting us... That is something to say for such a small group. Dr. Danny WilliamsPresident of Rocky Mountain Soaring AssociationDenver, COhttp://www.rmsadenver.comThe Icon Junkie
RE: [RCSE] September is almost over and....
Which reminds me. . . We have some terrificdealers whosponsor the NATS each year by donating terrific gear to the cause each July. At the Workers Banquet this year, I was lucky enough to win 2 (count'em TWO!) JR 368 digital servos. (Major-smile com'in on here!) They weredonated by Johnny Berlin of R.C. Hanger (IL). So. . . when it came time to order my new JR9303 Tx, I was reminded to thank my LSF Sponsor and soaring friend with myorder! I called Johnny Berlin of course! Thanks for all you do for our sport, Johnny! Pastor Bill P.S. Did I mentionJohnny's phone is(217) 347-5842 ? From: Dr. Danny C Williams [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 12:55 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [RCSE] September is almost over and We have beat landings, Gordy, and a few other things to death this month Does that meanthat October is bashing vender month? I just want to be sure to be up on the current bashing list. Besides, how long has it been sensewe had a goodVendor bash. LMAO :^P Shows you that we have some good people supporting us... That is something to say for such a small group. Dr. Danny WilliamsPresident of Rocky Mountain Soaring AssociationDenver, COhttp://www.rmsadenver.comThe Icon Junkie
[RCSE] Spoiler Differencial
Something caught my eye the other day while reading about local 2M rules in Calgary. It mentioned you couldn't use spoilers individually. Now, I'm in the process of building a Sailaire and am wondering if I should use this. Does it help significantly for close in work (ie my LZ is tight at times). I know my BoT will turn on a wing tip but I'm reluctant to do that 5 feet off the ground. Would it bring a big RES plane around quicker and flatter? Are there trade-offs to consider? Phil RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] September is almost over and....you really want a new thread????
We have beat landings, Gordy, and a few other things to death this month (Danny Williams) Vendor Bashing is so passe...anyway, there really aren't that many bad ones left these days. Gordy's useful in an emergency, but things aren't that quiet, we should leave him in reserve. I've got a good one -- Park Fliers. Or...Subtitled -- How greed and complacency ruined a hobby Greed -- lets import and sell a bunch of cheap R/C aircraft, the sort that can be flown anywhere, even your backyard. They're good for business, profitable too. Frequency Control? That's not my problem, and anyway I don't want to frighten off a potential sale. Complacency (an AMA speciality, I believe) -- there's nothing out of the ordinary going on, its all under control, everyone's having fun and, anyway, aren't they all going to be joining the AMA.. Ruin -- Nothing like having your plane shot down by someone flying a park flier a few streets away to ruin your day. (That's actually one reason why I don't fly an Icon.its bad enough having $200's worth of plane come down, $2000 is a little rich. Those planes also have the potential to land on people.70ozs of molded plane can kill, 30ozs of softer material is less likely to do so.) Gripes? Flames? (Solutions??) Martin Usher [BTW -- I had an North East Omega come down...that's one very strong plane, it will fly again. Its also cheap enough to junk and get a new one. I stopped flying larger (and more expensive) stuff some time back...too risky.] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] [RCSE]Topic for the month of October
Topic for the month of October: Which vendor makes the best downwind turn while trying to nail the UPS guy with a landing skeg? And could Gordy do it better? Tom H. NagelColumbus, OH
Re: [RCSE] Contests, Landings, etc.
I do this at the SOAR OVSS Fred Contest each year: 1. Short (strong) lines: About 200 meters (650 ft) of 290 lb test braided nylon line as used at the Nats; 2. FAI Landing tapes, added as bonus after FLIGHT scores are normalized (1,100 points is perfect, landing is a 10% point bonus); 3. No landing skegs/arrestors allowed (I always have a hacksaw available for guys who know the rules and still show up with a molded in skeg); 4. Long task times (10+ minute targets); 5. Seeded Man-on-Man (OVSS format, keeps the big boys pounding on each other all day, they like it and so do the spectators); 6. Fly what you want, no primary/backup models designated; We have a great time, fly all day, BS and funfly until dark (or later), and most of us are still talking by the end of the weekend. What's not to like? = Tom Kallevang Wheeling, IL AMA L292 SOAR LSF President Webmaster LSF #303 Level V ___ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] [RCSE]Topic for the month of October
Topic for the month of October: Which vendor makes the best downwind turn while trying to nail the UPS guy with a landing skeg? And could Gordy do it better? Sal and undoubtedly. Jim Porter, soon to be Johnston IowaNeckargemund-DilsbergGermany "The airplane stays up because it doesn't have the time to fall." Orville Wright
Re: [RCSE] [RCSE]Topic for the month of October
Dudes I may want to enter that contest. I have been practicing down wind turns with my DLG, canard skeeter. Yes, it's true I wasn't that good at it till I carefully reviewed the correct direction to turn in a thermal. Learned that by studying which way the water rotated in the tiolet. Exactly why I was sitting on the floor wistfully staring into the toilet bowl is not pertinant information and need not be disclosed at this time. Denny Maize Polecat Aero 717-789-0146 www.polecataero.com
Re: [RCSE] September is almost over and....you really want a new thread????
Martin, If I am not mistaken, they are on 27meg and AMA has had a lot of input in to this. Also, I want the big boys to make some money so they can sell me the good stuff at a lower cost. I think you are into an urban legend there. Marc --- Original Message --- From: Martin Usher [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 11:39:24 -0700 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [RCSE] September is almost over andyou really want a new thread We have beat landings, Gordy, and a few other things to death this month (Danny Williams) Vendor Bashing is so passe...anyway, there really aren't that many bad ones left these days. Gordy's useful in an emergency, but things aren't that quiet, we should leave him in reserve. I've got a good one -- Park Fliers. Or...Subtitled -- How greed and complacency ruined a hobby Greed -- lets import and sell a bunch of cheap R/C aircraft, the sort that can be flown anywhere, even your backyard. They're good for business, profitable too. Frequency Control? That's not my problem, and anyway I don't want to frighten off a potential sale. Complacency (an AMA speciality, I believe) -- there's nothing out of the ordinary going on, its all under control, everyone's having fun and, anyway, aren't they all going to be joining the AMA.. Ruin -- Nothing like having your plane shot down by someone flying a park flier a few streets away to ruin your day. (That's actually one reason why I don't fly an Icon.its bad enough having $200's worth of plane come down, $2000 is a little rich. Those planes also have the potential to land on people.70ozs of molded plane can kill, 30ozs of softer material is less likely to do so.) Gripes? Flames? (Solutions??) Martin Usher [BTW -- I had an North East Omega come down...that's one very strong plane, it will fly again. Its also cheap enough to junk and get a new one. I stopped flying larger (and more expensive) stuff some time back...too risky.] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Marc Gellart, Marketing Representative 704-473-9292 Cell Phone 618-654-8101 Home and Fax RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] Contests, Landings, etc.
Tom, next week at Muncie, the 2004 F3B Team Select. WILL YOU BE THERE ? Dave.
Re: [RCSE] Contests, Landings, etc.
After all this stuff that has been spewed about landing, flying, contests and such, below is the secret to success of OVSS and midwest soaring. Yes, we have two contest that do not do MOM, and all the rest use a more normal landing task and skegs. But as Tom stated, we have a great time flying, soaring has become a spectator sport for the first time ever in my recolection, and even though I know some places numbers are down, ours are up. We are flying normally 10-15 minute tasks, mostly short lines (some as short as 450 feet), and in our year you will see about every condition that is possible to have. We added sportsman class this year and that has even added a new dimension to the series. The great part is we united instead of seperated and it has gotten better ever since. Come to Fall Round Up and see what we mean. Marc I do this at the SOAR OVSS Fred Contest each year: 1. Short (strong) lines: About 200 meters (650 ft) of 290 lb test braided nylon line as used at the Nats; 2. FAI Landing tapes, added as bonus after FLIGHT scores are normalized (1,100 points is perfect, landing is a 10% point bonus); 3. No landing skegs/arrestors allowed (I always have a hacksaw available for guys who know the rules and still show up with a molded in skeg); 4. Long task times (10+ minute targets); 5. Seeded Man-on-Man (OVSS format, keeps the big boys pounding on each other all day, they like it and so do the spectators); 6. Fly what you want, no primary/backup models designated; We have a great time, fly all day, BS and funfly until dark (or later), and most of us are still talking by the end of the weekend. What's not to like? = Tom Kallevang Wheeling, IL AMA L292 SOAR LSF President Webmaster LSF #303 Level V ___ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Marc Gellart, Marketing Representative 704-473-9292 Cell Phone 618-654-8101 Home and Fax RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] Urban Legends :-) beating up Gordy
Very good Jack. Dave
Re: [RCSE] Spoiler Differencial
While individual spoilers could indeed enhance turning performance, to use them in an RES contest defeats the spirit of RES. Jim Deck RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] Fun Toys
Hey guys, I just wanted to pass on some information on some fun toys that Hobby Lobby is bringing in. They import models from the Czech company Alfa Models. The models I am referring to here are the foamy scale P-51, Focke Wulf 190, and Corsair. These models have pretty accurate outlines and are light enough to have real predictable flight characteristics. Finished weights are around 14 ounces,and they are real ARF's they take about 2 hours to get in to the air. You can check out these models over at the Hobby Lobby website, and there are videos of each model flying. I used an MP Jet 28-7-35 out rider motor, Phoenix 10 motor controller, a 3 cell Thunder Power 860 ma pack, 2- Airtronics 94091 servos, a Berg 4 channel RX, and an APC 9x4 prop in my model. This combination has reserve power and flies for about 15 minutes. The motor is virtually silent and really has the power when you need it. Maybe not as much fun as your Flying Wing F3B Icon, steered with a new JR 9303, in a high stakes in or out landing contest, while trying to decide between the NASCAR Race or Gordy shooting landings on the high DEF screen on your new Futaba fully synthesized 14 channel, but fun. Larry Jolly
[RCSE] real soaring
For a real soaring contest, how about requiring exposed flat plate area perpendicular to travel direction equal to 1% (or maybe 1/2%) of wing area? That ought to make it hard to get the times. Lincoln RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] Fun Toys
If anyone wants any of these, I can get them at a discount when they are available. Tom TG 32 Mount View Dr Afton, VA 22920 540 943-3356 fax 943-4178 540 943-3356 - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 4:56 PM Subject: [RCSE] Fun Toys Hey guys, I just wanted to pass on some information on some fun toys that Hobby Lobby is bringing in. They import models from the Czech company Alfa Models. The models I am referring to here are the foamy scale P-51, Focke Wulf 190, and Corsair. These models have pretty accurate outlines and are light enough to have real predictable flight characteristics. Finished weights are around 14 ounces,and they are real ARF's they take about 2 hours to get in to the air. You can check out these models over at the Hobby Lobby website, and there are videos of each model flying. I used an MP Jet 28-7-35 out rider motor, Phoenix 10 motor controller, a 3 cell Thunder Power 860 ma pack, 2- Airtronics 94091 servos, a Berg 4 channel RX, and an APC 9x4 prop in my model. This combination has reserve power and flies for about 15 minutes. The motor is virtually silent and really has the power when you need it. Maybe not as much fun as your Flying Wing F3B Icon, steered with a new JR 9303, in a high stakes in or out landing contest, while trying to decide between the NASCAR Race or Gordy shooting landings on the high DEF screen on your new Futaba fully synthesized 14 channel, but fun. Larry Jolly RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] Re: Soaring V1 #4375
In a message dated 9/28/2004 2:34:50 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:I carefully reviewed the correct direction to turn in a thermal. Learned that by studying which way the water rotated in the toilet. Exactly why I was sitting on the floor wistfully staring into the toilet bowl is not pertinent information and need not be disclosed at this time. Acquiring knowledge bysuch novel means is a wonderful thing! Adorations at the porcelain throne notwithstanding, is the water (and assorted detritus) really rotating in response to coriolis forces or is it the design of the plumbing? Same doubtsfor thermals and dust devils (minus the plumbing issue).They're kinda small to consistently respond to a coriolis effect. Are there meteorology types out there that might clarify that some? It seems there should be a preferred direction for best use of a thermal but what's the signature to see that? Seems like you should be flying counter to the rotation direction of a thermal but how do you figure that out? Spent quite a few hours over at the lake watching pelicans enter thermals. By the time the whole flock is topped out, they're all turning in the same direction. But when they enter down low they typically turn into the thermal depending on how they encounter it. If they come in on the right they'll turn left and vice versa. About halfway up, the pelican density becomes high enough that pelican-pelican collisions become more likely and they sort it all out. But in one thermal they may be going CW at the top while the next group over may be going CCW. Hint, don't EVER get your boat under a pelican populated thermal. It's a beautiful sight right up to wherethey top out, drop ballast and take off. Which brings us full circle to the ole Polecat's muse. TIA - Dave R
[RCSE] Martin Simons' Sailplanes 1965-2000
Hi All, I just received a mailer from the VS Archivist, Raul Blacksten that Martin Simons' latest book, Sailplanes, 1965-2000 has just arrived! My check is in the mail. You can contact Raul at [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's $64.95 + 4 postage in the US. Raul Blacksten, PO Box 307, Maywood, CA 90270 I've always had great and speedy service from him when ordering books. Gregory Vasgerdsian RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] Speedline
I have 3200 m of 1.35 Speedline. If interested contact me off line or at (505) 298-6870 Buzz Averill RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] September is almost over and....you really want a new thread????
Marc, I just can't waste the time... --Jack Strother Granger, IN LSF 2948 LSF Level V #117 LSF Official 1996 - 2004 CSS Gold -- Original message -- Martin, If I am not mistaken, they are on 27meg and AMA has had a lot of input in to this. Also, I want the big boys to make some money so they can sell me the good stuff at a lower cost. I think you are into an urban legend there. Marc --- Original Message --- From: Martin Usher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 11:39:24 -0700 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [RCSE] September is almost over andyou really want a new threadWe have beat landings, Gordy, and a few other things to death this month (Danny Williams) Vendor Bashing is so passe...anyway, there really aren't that many bad ones left these days. Gordy's useful in an emergency, but things aren't that quiet, we should leave him in reserve. I've got a good one -- Park Fliers. Or...Subtitled -- "How greed and complacency ruined a hobby" Greed -- lets import and sell a bunch of cheap R/C aircraft, the sort that can be flown anywhere, even your backyard. They're good for business, profitable too. Frequency Control? That's not my problem, and anyway I don't want to frighten off a potential sale. Complacency (an AMA speciality, I believe) -- there's nothing out of the ordinary going on, its all under control, everyone's having fun and, anyway, aren't they all going to be joining the AMA.. Ruin -- Nothing like having your plane shot down by someone flying a park flier a few streets away to ruin your day. (That's actually one reason why I don't fly an Icon.its bad enough having $200's worth of plane come down, $2000 is a little rich. Those planes also have the potential to land on people.70ozs of molded plane can kill, 30ozs of softer material is less likely to do so.) Gripes? Flames? (Solutions??) Martin Usher [BTW -- I had an North East Omega come down...that's one very strong plane, it will fly again. Its also cheap enough to junk and get a new one. I stopped flying larger (and more expensive) stuff some time back...too risky.] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Marc Gellart, Marketing Representative 704-473-9292 Cell Phone 618-654-8101 Home and Fax RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] 2005 Southwest Classic
I'm proud to announce the 2005 Southwest Classic to be held February 5 and 6, 2005 in Queen Creek Arizona. Attached is the link for entry. We will also have and will be taking entries at Visalia. We have not decided on whether we will open the contest for a second class or not. A decision will be made in plenty of time for you to decide. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me. http://www.casl.net/swc.html Sincerely, Darwin N. Barrie Contest Director
RE: [RCSE] Spoiler Differencial
Jim, Unlike what seems like the other 99% of the list, I don't do contests. I fly cuz I like to; not cuz I have to beat someone. However, back to the original question, does using this have a detrimental side? I'm trying to get a big RES into a small LZ. Phil -Original Message- From: Jim Deck [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: September 28, 2004 1:47 PM To: Winch; Soaring Subject: Re: [RCSE] Spoiler Differencial While individual spoilers could indeed enhance turning performance, to use them in an RES contest defeats the spirit of RES. Jim Deck RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] Retreiver line
Do I buy braided or twisted line, and what weight line for a Rahm RETRIEVER ( Not a winch ). Thanks RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] September/October thread -- interference
I had arecent encounter with a park flier myself. I helped him solo his POS, and his dad even took a turn at the sticks. They were both grateful to get the help, and I was also able to educate them about frequency control (they didn't have a clue). I hope to fly with them again sometime. These people are interested in participating in our hobby - I say let's bring them into the fold. As an added bonus - they expressed an interest in gliders andI was able to refer them to DAW and some of the other fine vendors that provide us with our toys. Ron Weaver Buffalo Grove, IL Do you Yahoo!?vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!
Re: [RCSE] September is almost over and....you really want a new thread????
Before just looking at the negative side, think about how many new people will be introduced into flying. Everyone has to start somewhere. Stick and tissue models aren't where the future fliers are going to come from. Times do change. Martin Usher wrote: --- I've got a good one -- Park Fliers. Or...Subtitled -- How greed and complacency ruined a hobby Greed -- lets import and sell a bunch of cheap R/C aircraft, the sort that can be flown anywhere, even your backyard. They're good for business, profitable too. Frequency Control? That's not my problem, and anyway I don't want to frighten off a potential sale. Complacency (an AMA speciality, I believe) -- there's nothing out of the ordinary going on, its all under control, everyone's having fun and, anyway, aren't they all going to be joining the AMA.. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
RE: [RCSE] LISF Fall contest report
Phil, That was a great story! A perfect example of why you never quit in a contest. Jim At 12:29 AM 9/28/2004, Phil Barnes wrote: That brings us to the seventh and final round with a devilishly dangerous 15 minute task. I stepped up to the winches announcing to all who were within earshot that they were now dealing with a wounded animal (me) and they better be careful. With Tom Kiesling's advice in mind I stayed on the winch line a little longer this time. Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level IV ICQ: 6997780 AIM: InventorJim R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
RE: [RCSE] [Fwd: Re: Urban Legends :-) beating up Gordy]
The only Gordy recommendation I wasted my money on was an Accusplit stopwatch. What a piece of junk. I got him back for it though. I left it hanging on the nose of his plane last year at Visalia. Until now, he didn't know it was me! Gordy isn't too bad. He does fly gliders after all. Wiggle your sticks David Judson Las Vegas, NV -Original Message- From: Jeff Steifel Subject: [RCSE] [ Re: Urban Legends :-) beating up Gordy] I wish I hadn't wasted my time or money on some of his recommendations... RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] September/October thread -- interference
I frequently run into park flyers at the high school where I sometimes fly my DLG. They are mostly family types where Dad is trying to get the plane into the air by throwing it straight up. They are usually more than happy to get some help after seeing me throw DLG a few times. I have helped several of them get their planes into the air, and always take the time to explain about interference. They usually have no clue about that. So far, this has produced several new glider pilots and some new club members. In fact, one of them who was flying a park flyera couple ofyears ago will be Predident of our club next year. I look at it as an opportunity torecruitnew flyers and grow the sport. Jack Harper Houston Hawks - Original Message - From: Ron Weaver To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 9/28/04 8:21:39 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] September/October thread -- interference I had arecent encounter with a park flier myself. I helped him solo his POS, and his dad even took a turn at the sticks. They were both grateful to get the help, and I was also able to educate them about frequency control (they didn't have a clue). I hope to fly with them again sometime. These people are interested in participating in our hobby - I say let's bring them into the fold. As an added bonus - they expressed an interest in gliders andI was able to refer them to DAW and some of the other fine vendors that provide us with our toys. Ron Weaver Buffalo Grove, IL Do you Yahoo!?vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!
[RCSE] QUASOAR
For sale Quasoar, standard / unlimited sailplane, stab and rudder built, wings ready to sheet, nothing done to the fuselage, every thing else in box. $145.00 + shipping Ace RC kit. Ron Cate [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] LSF Historical Event!!
Congratulations Don. To all who dont know Don let me say he is one of the nicest guys you will ever meet in this sport. I'm glad to call him a friend. Just last Sun he made his third trip of the week to Muncie to help me try for my L5 cross county. I didnt make it but he is always there to help. Everyone who knows him knows what kind of guy he is, he's the best. Way to go Don Jerry Shape - Original Message - From: Jim Deck [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: RCSE [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 9:46 AM Subject: [RCSE] LSF Historical Event!! Wow, what a month! It gives me great pleasure to announce that Don Harris has completed his THIRD time through the LSF program and is now officially the League of Silent Flight's 118th Level V. And, it's the 4th one I've processed this month. Don accomplished the journey from Level 1 to Level V in 29 months. His other journeys took 60 and 50 months. Oh, and if you're curious, the fastest time ever through the program was 27 months. Please join the officers of the LSF in congratulating Don on his very special achievement. Respectfully submitted, Jim Deck RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] LSF Historical Event!!
I agree, congratulations Don. At 09:02 PM 9/28/2004, Shape wrote: Congratulations Don. To all who dont know Don let me say he is one of the nicest guys you will ever meet in this sport. I'm glad to call him a friend. Just last Sun he made his third trip of the week to Muncie to help me try for my L5 cross county. I didnt make it but he is always there to help. Everyone who knows him knows what kind of guy he is, he's the best. Way to go Don Jerry Shape Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level IV ICQ: 6997780 AIM: InventorJim R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] Need Custom Wings Built
Who builds custom wings nowadays? I need a couple sets of bagged wings for two Multiplex fuselages that I have. The wingspans are around 120 and the airfoils are Wortman FX 60/126 and Eppler 212 I believe. Tom RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] That Accusplit Timer still works great !
The only Gordy recommendation I wasted my money on was an Accusplitstopwatch. What a piece of junk. An $11 Seiko clone that to this day works great, yes it had the cheap spring metal contacts but $6 more from Radio Shack for real push button switchesand you have a completely programmable countdown, count up watch with positive buttons. Unfortunately they aren't available any more...so don't ask. :-) Gordy
Re: [RCSE] That Accusplit Timer still works great !
There you go again. I paid $30, it was the biggest POS around... Thank god they aren't available any more. Get the Seiko from Tom Copp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: /The only Gordy recommendation I wasted my money on was an Accusplit stopwatch. What a piece of junk./ // *An $11 Seiko clone that to this day works great, yes it had the cheap spring metal contacts but $6 more from Radio Shack for real push button switches and you have a completely programmable countdown, count up watch with positive buttons.* ** *Unfortunately they aren't available any more...so don't ask. :-)* * Gordy* -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
RE: [RCSE] LISF Fall contest report
I thought we were supposed to go home after we miss a single landing. Not! -Original Message- From: James V. Bacus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Phil, That was a great story! A perfect example of why you never quit in a contest. Jim At 12:29 AM 9/28/2004, Phil Barnes wrote: That brings us to the seventh and final round with a devilishly dangerous 15 minute task. I stepped up to the winches announcing to all who were within earshot that they were now dealing with a wounded animal (me) and they better be careful. With Tom Kiesling's advice in mind I stayed on the winch line a little longer this time. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
RE: [RCSE] LSF Historical Event!!
Three cheers (and 3 LSF Mugs) for Don Harris !! You deserve all the accolades we can heap on you. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] LISF Fall contest report
Just like in Heaven Can Wait Always wait for the outcome. I am not a big contest person but I like contests for the motivation they give me to improve my equipment and skills. Several years ago I entered a ham radio contest called Sweepstakes. In the contest each operator trys to contact all of the sections defined by the ARRL (Amateur Radio Relay League). There are two sweepstakes each year, one done with voice and the other with morse code. I did the morse code version. I had all sorts of trouble with my radio, my computer, my software, my fumbling fingers and feeble brain. In the end I had completed just ONE (1) proper contact. For a moment I thought I would not even send in my entry. Then I remembered that I had been operating in the low power category and wanted to increase the participation numbers for low power operators. I sent in my entry and forgot all about it. Several months later a friend commented on my win. It turned out that I was the only low power operator to send an entry from my section so my one contact was enough to win the section. The moral is, Keep trying! and Wait for the outcome, you might have done better than you thought. :) michael AMA 77292 Jon Stone wrote: I thought we were supposed to go home after we miss a single landing. Not! -Original Message- From: James V. Bacus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Phil, That was a great story! A perfect example of why you never quit in a contest. Jim RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] XC story
Not much of a story here. I thought that the equipment that was in it was still fine, after all it worked last year... (!) Turned out that the brand X Rx xtal had detuned itself. As I was kinda stupid and didn't do a range check, I found out about the ~100 ft range on the tow. The plane went up the line, the vario started announcing in a cultured voice, Attention, attention, attent... splat. The plane had turned around on tow with a 180, and headed down to the ground. It hit at about a 30 degree nose down attitude, totally destroying the fuselage. The wing survived unscathed, which means that at least a part of it can live on. Wiley probably had about 3k road miles on its odometer, so it had certainly performed for far longer than I could ever have expected. As this isn't much of a story, I'll talk about the stuff that transpired afterwards. After the dark cloud hovering over me moved off to a safe distance, Jim Rolle graciously offered up his backup SBXC plane for my use. The great thing was that it was set up with a JR 10X Tx, and even better, was on Ch 21, which was my primary frequency at this years nats along with the F3J WC. I downloaded his setup onto my tx (transfer cable is a very nice feature), and checked it out. It is based on a setup from the midwest (computer storage and transfer of setups is also a nice feature). Still, after some experimentation, I decided to use a setup based on my Icon, which took about 20 minutes to work out. As I had arrived fairly late, then spent time with Wiley, then more time gathering wreckage, I was seriously late by the time I got things ready to go. Several other teams had gotten on the course by 10:30 AM, and I didn't enter until about noon. The task for the day was longest single flight. They had made GPS measured turnpoints around the valley that we were flying in, the goal being to fly from one to another, to another. The only restriction was that you couldn't just fly back and forth between two waypoints. After some flying, I started regretting that I hadn't figured out how much down elevator trim I could safely use at altitude. This really became an issue in the afternoon when there was a patch of serious lift that was a few miles wide. I had thermalled up to about 5k in altitude, and was cruising on course. But, the air was still great, and the plane kept going up. I queried the vario at one point for altitude and got in response 5463 ft in altitude. It was pretty darned high... and I was scared to push too hard because I was afraid of using too much down elevator. Fortunately, I finally popped out the far side of the lift, and I could start breathing easier. The flight went fairly uneventfully until the late afternoon when my patient spouse (and driver) Jan said that we had to make a pit stop. The next time that we flew by the motel, she hopped out, made a run to the room to powder her nose, while I flew around in sink. Why is there never a thermal where you need it? Finally she got back and we headed down the road. Of course, I was in similar straits by then. We came upon another team that had pulled off to the side of the road to work a thermal. They had a spotter in the back of their pickup truck, so we pull alongside, I tossed him my tranny, pointed in the general direction of the plane, and ran off to a bush... got back a couple minutes later, and realized that I hadn't bothered to drop off the receiver for the vario. Of course, more sink was the order of the moment. It turned out that this was the lowest point of the flight excepting the launch and final glide. Scott Meader had finally hooked up with a thermal about the time that I returned, but the plane was down to about 1500 feet. After climbing back up, we were back in operation. We flew until almost 5 PM when the clouds came over and shut down the thermals. We did about another 15 miles at something close to best L/D speed before landing, finishing up with 112 miles. There is nothing like XC, optimizing your thermal, figuring out how fast to fly based on the expected thermal strength, along with what lift/sink you are flying through, as well as whether it was an upwind or downwind leg that you were flying. Sunday was back to the old style classic XC task. A closed course of 22.7 miles, minimum time wins. The wind was up early, compliments of the upper level low pressure that had transited the previous evening. By the time that it was time to fly, it was blowing about 15 mph on the ground, and about 20 mph in the air. But, there were some very good thermals. I set my goal of having 4000 ft before entering the course, but the thermals just weren't cooperating, so we entered at about 3500 ft. We did the first two mile leg of upwind easily, and cruised nicely on the quartering downwind leg. Got down to about 2500 feet, and hooked a great thermal. Went to above 4k, and got back on course. Jan was a law abiding driver and wouldn't go above the
Re: [RCSE] Contests, Landings, etc.
Would really REALLY like to, but cannot. Tom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom, next week at Muncie, the 2004 F3B Team Select. WILL YOU BE THERE ? RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] XC story
That was a great story. I love X/C but just don't get to do it often enough. My longest run seems so minuscule now. 8-) P.S. American muscle cars and X/C, what a cool combination! At 09:56 PM 9/28/2004, Joe Wurts wrote: Not much of a story here. Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level IV ICQ: 6997780 AIM: InventorJim R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] XC story
Hi Joe, Is anyone doing XC with scale ships (big - 6 meter plus say) down your way? Joe Wurts wrote: After the dark cloud hovering over me moved off to a safe distance, Jim Rolle graciously offered up his backup SBXC plane for my use -- Simon Van Leeuwen RADIUS SYSTEMS PnP SYSTEMS - The E-Harness of Choice Cogito Ergo Zooom RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] XC story
At 09:56 PM 9/28/2004, Joe Wurts wrote snip Not much of a story here. snio Sorry but I must disagree. This is a great story. We need more like this instead of all the bashing that has been going on lately. Wish we had more suitable sites for cross country. Chuck Anderson RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] XC story
Joe, Nice story. At 09:56 PM 9/28/2004, Joe Wurts wrote: ... check, I found out about the ~100 ft range on the tow. The plane went up the line, the vario started announcing in a cultured voice, Attention, attention, attent... splat. So she never said Pull Up! - Pull Up! ? :-) ... and I could do some dolphin soaring in the thermals as we drove along. Exactly what is dolphin soaring? Steve RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] XC remembered
It had to be fifteen + years ago out at Taft CA. Joe was flying with Don Vickers crewing. I was flying Gentle Ladies at the time and was just there observing. I was drafted by a team to time and went for it. We passed a few 'short flight landings' and were passed by a few teams. The most memorable moment for me was looking through the pick-up's rear window and seeing the needle cross 80mph. The pilot was smacking the cab yelling faster, faster. I looked back at the plane as it easily passed us. If you can get the support team I think this is pure soaring. Thanks, Dave RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] DS368/361 Servo's
Hi all, I have seen some discussion in the past about the 361 being identical to the 368, however I have found differing specs between the two. DS36128x30x13mm18g0.15s/40deg DS36828x30x13mm22g0.11s/40deg I believe the difference between the two is the 361 has a 3 pole motor whereas the 368 has a 5 pole, can anyone out there confirm this?? There were some rumours a number of months ago that the 368 was to be discontinued, does anyone know if JR Japan has simply been putting 368 stickers onto 361 servos for the US market, I have heard that from at least one source fairly close to JR Japan. Cheers, Les. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] Re: XC story
In a message dated 9/28/2004 9:38:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Exactly what is "dolphin soaring"? Flying along faster than best glide speed, hitting lift, then pulling up or zooming in the thermal, then pushing over and speeding up as the plane leaves the thermal. Not bothering to stop and circle! When the conditions are right, one can fly many miles at high XC speeds without stopping to tank up in thermals. Also known as "porpoising".
Re: [RCSE] September/October thread -- interference
One thing to do is to talk to your LHS... Our local stores are not bad but they're also not good. They need the sales. The problem's not the toys. I don't think we should run down people who try to fly them either. Everyone starts out clueless, often with a 49MHz PoS. After all, that's how I got into this hobby. In fact I was nearly part of the problem. I've still got the plane and the radio -- foam electric, three channel AM set that runs on 42. Purchased it in 1994 from a toyshop (not a hobby store) for my daughter who wanted a remote control plane for her birthday. I had absolutely no idea that it could interfere with someone a mile or more away. Fortunately for everyone it didn't work very well -- at least we couldn't fly it further than a hundred yards without crashing it. We got lucky, though. I was a bit wary of model aircraft so I thought I'd assemble a Gentle Lady kit someone had given me years before to see how to repair the things. So after crashing the electric (*again*) we thought what the heck and tossed the GL, expecting it to also fall in a heap. It didn't. So we started flying it. On 44 this time, still without a clue. Fortunately the GL needs space to fly in and after a couple of weeks we found where everyone flew gliders. We were helped by someone who showed us how to trim it, how to fly it and taught us the lore.the rest, as they say, is history. A little bit of help goes a long, long, way. My daugher may have moved onto bigger and better (and much more expensive) things (full size) but I'm still flying those sailplanes. Martin Usher RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
