subject:"\[OT\] Eclipse IDE"

Re: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-24 Thread keithBacon

A manager I worked with said he standardised everything so work could be
de-skilled & cheap staff used.Then the fun part was finding the experts who can
be more productive if they deviate from the standard procedures. THis was a was
non IT manager but the same applies for IT I think. 
I saw a report that showed that support of large windows apps was more
expensive than anything else, this causes the movement to standardize. But it
really applies to junior developers & users of apps.  
I worked at a place where every dev. PC was different, the staff were mostly
beginners & making all PC's the same was beneficial. But we had the rule if
your PC was non-standard you got bottom priority support, it was your choice. 
We were lenient with people we felt were learning fast so we shouldn't stifle
their creativity.


--- "Chappell, Simon P" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will be obvious to
> experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is good.
> We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th degree and they will
> all be locked down so that you can't change anything. You can't even change
> your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, you'd better like it because
> you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of productivity.
> 
> Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share?
> 
> I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of my tinkering
> on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the company, but you
> wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I have introduced
> to the company's IS environment four new tools that I evaluated by tinkering
> with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are
> Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and Cygwin. The funny
> thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are going to be part
> of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh.
> 
> Simon
> 
> >-Original Message-----
> >From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
> >
> >
> >Hi all,
> > I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list.
> > Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate 
> >everybody to adopt my
> >recomendations.
> >My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, 
> >order is order.
> > I think his concern about this task is to improve 
> >productivity. So, what is more productive?
> > Following our discussion, does someone have experience 
> >writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is
> >this kind of task?
> >
> >Best regards,
> > Daniel.
> > 
> >
> >
> >__
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> >http://mailplus.yahoo.com
> >
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> >
> >
> 
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> 


=
~~
Search the archive:-
http://www.mail-archive.com/struts-user%40jakarta.apache.org/
~~
Keith Bacon - Looking for struts work - South-East UK.
phone UK 07960 011275

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RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-22 Thread Chappell, Simon P

Andrew, can we talk offline about getting a Beeb emulator going for me, so that I can 
relive my Elite playing days?

>-Original Message-
>From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 8:30 AM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>
>
>Yep. Still got mine. Use it to play Zalaga and Elite 
>occasionaly (or did
>till the (3rd & last) monitor developed a smoke leak). Luckily 
>most of the
>other old games run fine on the emulator... :-)
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 22:23
>To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>
>
>I had a BBC too. Man, those were good machines. Virtually 
>unbreakable, kind
>of the Land Rover of computers. Before that I had used an 
>Acorn Atom and
>let's not forget the Ol' Sinclair ZX80 and the ZX81. For their 
>time, they
>were great machines.
>
>Today I have a Mac, and it is truly a great machine for it's time. :-)
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 8:18 AM
>>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>>Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>>
>>
>>Never had the chance to play with one of those.
>>
>>My teenage geek arguments were always Amiga vs Mac. Of course
>>back then the
>>PC proles I knew couldn't muster up an argument to support
>>their platform
>>back in those days... "uh... its got 640k and ummm yeh..."
>>
>>I learnt C on the Amy, but my first love was a BBC Micro on
>>which I learnt
>>good old fashioned BASIC - Way better than the C64 too... ;->
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 22:10
>>To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>>
>>
>>If it was Friday, then I would ignite a flamefest by pointing
>>out that I
>>quite liked the Atari ST. My ST was the machine that I learned
>>C programming
>>on and I still have a soft spot for the old thing.
>>
>>Simon
>>
>>>-Original Message-
>>>From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:59 PM
>>>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>>>Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>>>
>>>
>>>:-)
>>>Amiga shall return...
>>>
>>>-Original Message-
>>>From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>>Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 03:40
>>>To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
>>>Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>>>
>>>
>>>My amiga runs NetBeans just fine
>>>
>>>-Original Message-
>>>From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:22 PM
>>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>>>
>>>Win2k, 1Ghz Pentium 3, 512 MB RAM, Sun JDK 1.4.1 and the menus
>>>still don't
>>>respond like a native application.  It's either Swing or
>>>NetBeans use of
>>>Swing that is slowing it down.  Plus, it's at least 30 MB larger than
>>>Eclipse.
>>>
>>>
>>>David
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>From: Joel Wickard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>>Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List"
>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>>To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>>Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>>>>Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:13:39 -0600
>>>>
>>>>Durham David Cntr 805CSS/SCBE wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>on a P4 with the Sun's newest runtime environment, it runs great.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>I've got a p3 @ 900 / 256 ram and I think it runs fine.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>>><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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>>>><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>
>>>
>>>_
>>>Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
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>>>additional commands,
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RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-22 Thread Mark Galbreath

I learned BASIC on my C-64 and C on my Mac 512 (upgraded to a Plus).  I
still have a Mac IIsi, a Centris 610, and two Imacs, along with a half-dozen
Wintel machines.

Nevertheless, the Video Toaster on the Amiga rocked!

Mark

-Original Message-
From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 9:23 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE


I had a BBC too. Man, those were good machines. Virtually unbreakable, kind
of the Land Rover of computers. Before that I had used an Acorn Atom and
let's not forget the Ol' Sinclair ZX80 and the ZX81. For their time, they
were great machines.

Today I have a Mac, and it is truly a great machine for it's time. :-)

>-Original Message-
>From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 8:18 AM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>
>
>Never had the chance to play with one of those.
>
>My teenage geek arguments were always Amiga vs Mac. Of course
>back then the
>PC proles I knew couldn't muster up an argument to support 
>their platform
>back in those days... "uh... its got 640k and ummm yeh..."
>
>I learnt C on the Amy, but my first love was a BBC Micro on
>which I learnt
>good old fashioned BASIC - Way better than the C64 too... ;->
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 22:10
>To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>
>
>If it was Friday, then I would ignite a flamefest by pointing
>out that I
>quite liked the Atari ST. My ST was the machine that I learned 
>C programming
>on and I still have a soft spot for the old thing.
>
>Simon
>
>>-Original Message-----
>>From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:59 PM
>>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>>Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>>
>>
>>:-)
>>Amiga shall return...
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 03:40
>>To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
>>Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>>
>>
>>My amiga runs NetBeans just fine
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:22 PM
>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>>
>>Win2k, 1Ghz Pentium 3, 512 MB RAM, Sun JDK 1.4.1 and the menus still 
>>don't respond like a native application.  It's either Swing or
>>NetBeans use of
>>Swing that is slowing it down.  Plus, it's at least 30 MB larger than
>>Eclipse.
>>
>>
>>David
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: Joel Wickard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>>>Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:13:39 -0600
>>>
>>>Durham David Cntr 805CSS/SCBE wrote:
>>>
>>>>on a P4 with the Sun's newest runtime environment, it runs great.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>I've got a p3 @ 900 / 256 ram and I think it runs fine.
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
>>><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>For additional commands, e-mail: 
>>><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>>
>>_
>>Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. 
>>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
>>
>>
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RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-22 Thread Andrew Hill

I learnt it for fun. I was still in high school and had wild ambitions of
writing great computer games.

K & R of course, and a copy of the 1.3 Amiga Rom Kernal Manuals which cost
me many months pocket money - not half as much as my folks paid to get me
the Lattice C compiler for my birthday though...

Only ever did finish one game - a rip-off of Repton on the BBC, but with
lots more objects, bigger maps, (much) slower refresh rate (despite running
on a much more powerful platform!) & worse graphics - well actually some gfx
in it werent half bad - oh how I miss Deluxe Paint II nowdays! (Miss evil C
pointer manipulations too, but thats another story ;->)

-Original Message-
From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 22:20
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE


I fear that you may not be far from the truth, although I keep young by
virtue of a very young wife. :-)

When I was teaching myself C, I was using it for my final year thesis and
there were no professors, TA's or even other students that knew it and this
was before the WWW was invented, so it was me and my faithful copy of K&R
and LOTS of naughty words.

>-Original Message-
>From: Pani, Gourav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 8:12 AM
>To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
>Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>
>
>man, you are ancient.  i bet i was in diapers when you did that.  ;)
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 9:10 AM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>
>
>If it was Friday, then I would ignite a flamefest by pointing
>out that I
>quite liked the Atari ST. My ST was the machine that I learned
>C programming
>on and I still have a soft spot for the old thing.
>
>Simon
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:59 PM
>>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>>Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>>
>>
>>:-)
>>Amiga shall return...
>>
>>-----Original Message-
>>From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 03:40
>>To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
>>Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>>
>>
>>My amiga runs NetBeans just fine
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:22 PM
>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>>
>>Win2k, 1Ghz Pentium 3, 512 MB RAM, Sun JDK 1.4.1 and the menus
>>still don't
>>respond like a native application.  It's either Swing or
>>NetBeans use of
>>Swing that is slowing it down.  Plus, it's at least 30 MB larger than
>>Eclipse.
>>
>>
>>David
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: Joel Wickard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>>>Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:13:39 -0600
>>>
>>>Durham David Cntr 805CSS/SCBE wrote:
>>>
>>>>on a P4 with the Sun's newest runtime environment, it runs great.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>I've got a p3 @ 900 / 256 ram and I think it runs fine.
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>For additional commands, e-mail:
>>><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>>
>>_
>>Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
>>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
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RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-22 Thread Andrew Hill

Yep. Still got mine. Use it to play Zalaga and Elite occasionaly (or did
till the (3rd & last) monitor developed a smoke leak). Luckily most of the
other old games run fine on the emulator... :-)

-Original Message-
From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 22:23
To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE


I had a BBC too. Man, those were good machines. Virtually unbreakable, kind
of the Land Rover of computers. Before that I had used an Acorn Atom and
let's not forget the Ol' Sinclair ZX80 and the ZX81. For their time, they
were great machines.

Today I have a Mac, and it is truly a great machine for it's time. :-)

>-Original Message-
>From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 8:18 AM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>
>
>Never had the chance to play with one of those.
>
>My teenage geek arguments were always Amiga vs Mac. Of course
>back then the
>PC proles I knew couldn't muster up an argument to support
>their platform
>back in those days... "uh... its got 640k and ummm yeh..."
>
>I learnt C on the Amy, but my first love was a BBC Micro on
>which I learnt
>good old fashioned BASIC - Way better than the C64 too... ;->
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 22:10
>To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>
>
>If it was Friday, then I would ignite a flamefest by pointing
>out that I
>quite liked the Atari ST. My ST was the machine that I learned
>C programming
>on and I still have a soft spot for the old thing.
>
>Simon
>
>>-Original Message-----
>>From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:59 PM
>>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>>Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>>
>>
>>:-)
>>Amiga shall return...
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 03:40
>>To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
>>Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>>
>>
>>My amiga runs NetBeans just fine
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:22 PM
>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>>
>>Win2k, 1Ghz Pentium 3, 512 MB RAM, Sun JDK 1.4.1 and the menus
>>still don't
>>respond like a native application.  It's either Swing or
>>NetBeans use of
>>Swing that is slowing it down.  Plus, it's at least 30 MB larger than
>>Eclipse.
>>
>>
>>David
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: Joel Wickard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>>>Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:13:39 -0600
>>>
>>>Durham David Cntr 805CSS/SCBE wrote:
>>>
>>>>on a P4 with the Sun's newest runtime environment, it runs great.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>I've got a p3 @ 900 / 256 ram and I think it runs fine.
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>For additional commands, e-mail:
>>><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>>
>>_
>>Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
>>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
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RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-22 Thread Chappell, Simon P

I had a BBC too. Man, those were good machines. Virtually unbreakable, kind of the 
Land Rover of computers. Before that I had used an Acorn Atom and let's not forget the 
Ol' Sinclair ZX80 and the ZX81. For their time, they were great machines.

Today I have a Mac, and it is truly a great machine for it's time. :-)

>-Original Message-
>From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 8:18 AM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>
>
>Never had the chance to play with one of those.
>
>My teenage geek arguments were always Amiga vs Mac. Of course 
>back then the
>PC proles I knew couldn't muster up an argument to support 
>their platform
>back in those days... "uh... its got 640k and ummm yeh..."
>
>I learnt C on the Amy, but my first love was a BBC Micro on 
>which I learnt
>good old fashioned BASIC - Way better than the C64 too... ;->
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 22:10
>To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>
>
>If it was Friday, then I would ignite a flamefest by pointing 
>out that I
>quite liked the Atari ST. My ST was the machine that I learned 
>C programming
>on and I still have a soft spot for the old thing.
>
>Simon
>
>>-Original Message-----
>>From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:59 PM
>>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>>Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>>
>>
>>:-)
>>Amiga shall return...
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 03:40
>>To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
>>Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>>
>>
>>My amiga runs NetBeans just fine
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:22 PM
>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>>
>>Win2k, 1Ghz Pentium 3, 512 MB RAM, Sun JDK 1.4.1 and the menus
>>still don't
>>respond like a native application.  It's either Swing or
>>NetBeans use of
>>Swing that is slowing it down.  Plus, it's at least 30 MB larger than
>>Eclipse.
>>
>>
>>David
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: Joel Wickard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" 
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>>>Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:13:39 -0600
>>>
>>>Durham David Cntr 805CSS/SCBE wrote:
>>>
>>>>on a P4 with the Sun's newest runtime environment, it runs great.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>I've got a p3 @ 900 / 256 ram and I think it runs fine.
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>For additional commands, e-mail:
>>><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>>
>>_
>>Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
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RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-22 Thread Chappell, Simon P

I fear that you may not be far from the truth, although I keep young by virtue of a 
very young wife. :-)

When I was teaching myself C, I was using it for my final year thesis and there were 
no professors, TA's or even other students that knew it and this was before the WWW 
was invented, so it was me and my faithful copy of K&R and LOTS of naughty words.

>-Original Message-
>From: Pani, Gourav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 8:12 AM
>To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
>Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>
>
>man, you are ancient.  i bet i was in diapers when you did that.  ;)
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 9:10 AM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>
>
>If it was Friday, then I would ignite a flamefest by pointing 
>out that I
>quite liked the Atari ST. My ST was the machine that I learned 
>C programming
>on and I still have a soft spot for the old thing.
>
>Simon
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:59 PM
>>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>>Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>>
>>
>>:-)
>>Amiga shall return...
>>
>>-Original Message-----
>>From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 03:40
>>To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
>>Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>>
>>
>>My amiga runs NetBeans just fine
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:22 PM
>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>>
>>Win2k, 1Ghz Pentium 3, 512 MB RAM, Sun JDK 1.4.1 and the menus 
>>still don't
>>respond like a native application.  It's either Swing or 
>>NetBeans use of
>>Swing that is slowing it down.  Plus, it's at least 30 MB larger than
>>Eclipse.
>>
>>
>>David
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: Joel Wickard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" 
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>>>Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:13:39 -0600
>>>
>>>Durham David Cntr 805CSS/SCBE wrote:
>>>
>>>>on a P4 with the Sun's newest runtime environment, it runs great.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>I've got a p3 @ 900 / 256 ram and I think it runs fine.
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>For additional commands, e-mail:
>>><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>>
>>_
>>Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
>>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
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RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-22 Thread Andrew Hill

Never had the chance to play with one of those.

My teenage geek arguments were always Amiga vs Mac. Of course back then the
PC proles I knew couldn't muster up an argument to support their platform
back in those days... "uh... its got 640k and ummm yeh..."

I learnt C on the Amy, but my first love was a BBC Micro on which I learnt
good old fashioned BASIC - Way better than the C64 too... ;->

-Original Message-
From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 22:10
To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE


If it was Friday, then I would ignite a flamefest by pointing out that I
quite liked the Atari ST. My ST was the machine that I learned C programming
on and I still have a soft spot for the old thing.

Simon

>-Original Message-
>From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:59 PM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>
>
>:-)
>Amiga shall return...
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 03:40
>To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
>Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>
>
>My amiga runs NetBeans just fine
>
>-Original Message-
>From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:22 PM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>
>Win2k, 1Ghz Pentium 3, 512 MB RAM, Sun JDK 1.4.1 and the menus
>still don't
>respond like a native application.  It's either Swing or
>NetBeans use of
>Swing that is slowing it down.  Plus, it's at least 30 MB larger than
>Eclipse.
>
>
>David
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>From: Joel Wickard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>>Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:13:39 -0600
>>
>>Durham David Cntr 805CSS/SCBE wrote:
>>
>>>on a P4 with the Sun's newest runtime environment, it runs great.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>I've got a p3 @ 900 / 256 ram and I think it runs fine.
>>
>>
>>--
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>For additional commands, e-mail:
>><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>_
>Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
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RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-22 Thread Pani, Gourav

man, you are ancient.  i bet i was in diapers when you did that.  ;)

-Original Message-
From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 9:10 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE


If it was Friday, then I would ignite a flamefest by pointing out that I
quite liked the Atari ST. My ST was the machine that I learned C programming
on and I still have a soft spot for the old thing.

Simon

>-Original Message-
>From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:59 PM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>
>
>:-)
>Amiga shall return...
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 03:40
>To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
>Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>
>
>My amiga runs NetBeans just fine
>
>-Original Message-
>From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:22 PM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>
>Win2k, 1Ghz Pentium 3, 512 MB RAM, Sun JDK 1.4.1 and the menus 
>still don't
>respond like a native application.  It's either Swing or 
>NetBeans use of
>Swing that is slowing it down.  Plus, it's at least 30 MB larger than
>Eclipse.
>
>
>David
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>From: Joel Wickard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>>Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:13:39 -0600
>>
>>Durham David Cntr 805CSS/SCBE wrote:
>>
>>>on a P4 with the Sun's newest runtime environment, it runs great.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>I've got a p3 @ 900 / 256 ram and I think it runs fine.
>>
>>
>>--
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>For additional commands, e-mail:
>><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>_
>Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
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>
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RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-22 Thread Chappell, Simon P

If it was Friday, then I would ignite a flamefest by pointing out that I quite liked 
the Atari ST. My ST was the machine that I learned C programming on and I still have a 
soft spot for the old thing.

Simon

>-Original Message-
>From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:59 PM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>
>
>:-)
>Amiga shall return...
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 03:40
>To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
>Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>
>
>My amiga runs NetBeans just fine
>
>-Original Message-
>From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:22 PM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>
>Win2k, 1Ghz Pentium 3, 512 MB RAM, Sun JDK 1.4.1 and the menus 
>still don't
>respond like a native application.  It's either Swing or 
>NetBeans use of
>Swing that is slowing it down.  Plus, it's at least 30 MB larger than
>Eclipse.
>
>
>David
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>From: Joel Wickard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>>Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:13:39 -0600
>>
>>Durham David Cntr 805CSS/SCBE wrote:
>>
>>>on a P4 with the Sun's newest runtime environment, it runs great.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>I've got a p3 @ 900 / 256 ram and I think it runs fine.
>>
>>
>>--
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>For additional commands, e-mail:
>><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>_
>Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
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RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers

2003-01-21 Thread Andrew Hill

Well at least its got better hours...


I grew up on a farm & the 'farm management' elective I took in high school
was the only subject  I ever got straights 'A's in. - Come to think of it it
was the only subject I ever got 'A's in at all, but I digress...


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 00:45
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: AW: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers


maybe the economic downturn should go on for a while and some of the lesser
talented will go back to farming...
--- Ursprüngliche Nachricht ---
Datum: 21.01.2003 17:18
Von: "Andrew Hill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
An: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Betreff: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers

> Im surprised sich developers have jobs in todays market.
> Surely there must be a glut of more experienced developers that can be
> obtained at the same price?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 00:15
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: AW: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
>
>
> ok, I think it's time for us all, to lower our standards: Talking about
> newbies: The newbies I mean have just started Java. They think R/3 is a
> piece of good Software instead of a piece of crappy scripts. They asked
> things like: "What do you mean with Transaction?",  "Huh, why a
database
> *and* an applicationserver?". And if you ask them for their favourite
> tool, they show you a Chainsaw and a Screwdriver(ok, only the better
ones
> have screwdrivers). If you tell them: Use what makes you more
productive
> they stick to paper&pencil. I understand them, if you start there,
there
> is nothing you can decide upon. You have to tell them: But if you have
> more than one senior-coder, it would be nice if they agreed on what
they
> tell them...
>
>
> --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht ---
> Datum: 21.01.2003 16:48
> Von: "James Childers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> An: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Betreff: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
>
> > This isn't about "expressing your individuality", it's about doing
what
> makes you -- the coder -- more productive. If it's your job to write
code,

> and you feel more comfortable using your favorite tool, then by all
means
> use it.
> >
> > As far as administrative costs are concerned: Coders are smart enough
to
> troubleshoot their own boxes, and if they're not then they damn well
> should be.
> >
> > Newbies? I challenge the notion that forcing new toolsets on them is
> productive in the long run. It is completely within the realm of
> possibility that they will have a shorter ramp-up time if they are able
to
> use tools they are already familiar with to integrate with existing
> standards.
> >
> > In short: I have never encountered a development environment where it
> would be better to standardize upon a single, monolithic work
environment
> for all developers. Some people like Emacs, some like Eclipse, some
like
> directly editing bytecode with a hex editor. Whatever. So long as the
> project gets done on time, on budget, and meets the requirements *it
> doesn't matter*.
> >
> > -= J
> >
> > PS: I am currently working on a team of 12 developers who each use
their
> own toolset. We are ahead of schedule and under budget.
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:30 AM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: AW: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
> > >
> > >
> > > I think there exist many and more fruitful ways to express your
> > > individuality than using IDE A rather than that ide B.
> > >
> > > If the IDE is not important, why not standardize one: Makes
> > > it easier for
> > > administrators to setup new boxes, allows to pass the box to
another
> > > member of your team, allows to use the same plug-ins and so
> > > on: Just think
> > > about Integration with version-Control: Cowboy-Coder A uses
> > > Eclipse which
> > > has a bug with Perforce-Integration, Cowboy-Coder B insists on
using
> > > IntelliJ, which has no Perforce-Integration at all: And the
> > > Newbie-Coder
> > > comes in and is totally confused as there exist three ways of
> > > setting up
> > > your enviroment. No Sta

RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-21 Thread Andrew Hill

:-)
Amiga shall return...

-Original Message-
From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 03:40
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE


My amiga runs NetBeans just fine

-Original Message-
From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:22 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE

Win2k, 1Ghz Pentium 3, 512 MB RAM, Sun JDK 1.4.1 and the menus still don't
respond like a native application.  It's either Swing or NetBeans use of
Swing that is slowing it down.  Plus, it's at least 30 MB larger than
Eclipse.


David






>From: Joel Wickard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:13:39 -0600
>
>Durham David Cntr 805CSS/SCBE wrote:
>
>>on a P4 with the Sun's newest runtime environment, it runs great.
>>
>>
>>
>I've got a p3 @ 900 / 256 ram and I think it runs fine.
>
>
>--
>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Re: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Joel Rees

> True, but I'm still here because of geo-relegious* reasons and that
> makes up and moving off difficult. This means that I need to stay in the
> arena and keep swinging the sword of common sense, among others, for a
> while yet.
> 
> Simon
> 
> * I am assisting in the startup of a United Pentecostal Church in
> Dodgeville (I'm a lay preacher) and it's awfully hard to fulfill such a
> calling living anywhere else, and my employer is the only game in town
> for geeks unless I drive long'ish distances.

Preaching two gospels at once or preaching one Gospel and spending a lot
of time on the commute -- hard choice. But if your current employer at
least winks at your using your personal machine at the office, you've
got a fighting chance with that one.

-- 
Joel Rees <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Joel Rees

> That doesn't make you an individual, that makes you a sick puppy.
> ...
> 
> >Mark (wears jeans and hiking boots to the office now)
> >
> >
> >As opposed to Andrew who expresses his in-duh-viduality by 
> >wearing a jacket
> >in a tropical climate when his colleagues wear t-shirts... ;-)

Standardized office temperature, maybe?

-- 
Joel Rees <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Chappell, Simon P

and if you think this is bad, stick around for friday! ;-)

>-Original Message-
>From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:16 PM
>To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
>Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>The [OT] designation indicates this thread is garbage, so 
>don't get your
>pantyhose in a knot, dude.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Kenny Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 4:08 PM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>Who cares! Are you really just arguing capitalization instead 
>of trying 
>to help the person? Come on... this list is for helping people.
>
>Kenny Smith
>
>
>Mark Galbreath wrote:
>> Are you saying Java is not case sensitive nor conforms to naming 
>> standards? "Collections" is not "collections."
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 2:40 PM
>> 
>> 
>> 
http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/collections/api/org/apache/commons/c
> ollect
> ions/FastHashMap.html
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:36 PM
> 
> No such thing.  Collections is a class.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 2:23 PM
> 
> ...(such as in the
> Fast*** implementations in the Collections package)
> 
> 
> 
> --
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> 


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RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Mark Galbreath

The [OT] designation indicates this thread is garbage, so don't get your
pantyhose in a knot, dude.

-Original Message-
From: Kenny Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 4:08 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)


Who cares! Are you really just arguing capitalization instead of trying 
to help the person? Come on... this list is for helping people.

Kenny Smith


Mark Galbreath wrote:
> Are you saying Java is not case sensitive nor conforms to naming 
> standards? "Collections" is not "collections."
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 2:40 PM
> 
> 
> http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/collections/api/org/apache/commons/c
> ollect
> ions/FastHashMap.html
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:36 PM
> 
> No such thing.  Collections is a class.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 2:23 PM
> 
> ...(such as in the
> Fast*** implementations in the Collections package)
> 
> 
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
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> 


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Re: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Kenny Smith

Who cares! Are you really just arguing capitalization instead of trying 
to help the person? Come on... this list is for helping people.

Kenny Smith


Mark Galbreath wrote:
Are you saying Java is not case sensitive nor conforms to naming standards?
"Collections" is not "collections."

-Original Message-
From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 2:40 PM


http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/collections/api/org/apache/commons/collect
ions/FastHashMap.html


-Original Message-
From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:36 PM

No such thing.  Collections is a class.

-Original Message-
From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 2:23 PM

...(such as in the
Fast*** implementations in the Collections package)



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RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Mark Galbreath

Are you saying Java is not case sensitive nor conforms to naming standards?
"Collections" is not "collections."

-Original Message-
From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 2:40 PM


http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/collections/api/org/apache/commons/collect
ions/FastHashMap.html


-Original Message-
From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:36 PM

No such thing.  Collections is a class.

-Original Message-
From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 2:23 PM

...(such as in the
Fast*** implementations in the Collections package)



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RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Mark Galbreath



-Original Message-
From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 2:40 PM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)


http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/collections/api/org/apache/commons/collect
ions/FastHashMap.html


-Original Message-
From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:36 PM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

No such thing.  Collections is a class.

-Original Message-
From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 2:23 PM

...(such as in the
Fast*** implementations in the Collections package)



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RE: Re[2]: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-21 Thread Mark Galbreath

Flash .NET?  Isn't that in org.apache.struts.flash?

-Original Message-
From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 2:35 PM

Doh! Don't encourage him Jacob!

>-Original Message-
>From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 11:44 AM
>
>There's actually a new article at Javaworld about using Flash
>with XML/J2EE
>as a presentation layer.  The article is a little underdone though.
>
>http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-01-2003/jw-0117-flash.html
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:39 AM
>
>And I was convinced that it was written in Flash.
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:34 AM
>>
>>Mark said it's writtn in VB.Net :D
>>
>>--
>>James Mitchell



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RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Craig R. McClanahan

On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Jacob Hookom wrote:

> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:22:34 -0600
> From: Jacob Hookom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
> I have a question, why does cloning the tables or collection (such as in the
> Fast*** implementations in the Collections package) constitute fast?
>

Cloning only happens when you modify the underlying collection.  You
should only use the fast collections when the very large majority of your
accesses (like, 99%) are reads.  In that scenario, the "fast" collections
run faster becasue they don't synchronize.

Craig

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RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-21 Thread Brian Lee

I've got it running on my linux beowulf cluster of xboxes. It responds very 
quickly.

BAL

From: "Jacob Hookom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Struts Users Mailing List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:39:56 -0600

My amiga runs NetBeans just fine

-Original Message-
From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:22 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE

Win2k, 1Ghz Pentium 3, 512 MB RAM, Sun JDK 1.4.1 and the menus still don't
respond like a native application.  It's either Swing or NetBeans use of
Swing that is slowing it down.  Plus, it's at least 30 MB larger than
Eclipse.


David






>From: Joel Wickard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:13:39 -0600
>
>Durham David Cntr 805CSS/SCBE wrote:
>
>>on a P4 with the Sun's newest runtime environment, it runs great.
>>
>>
>>
>I've got a p3 @ 900 / 256 ram and I think it runs fine.
>
>
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RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Jacob Hookom

http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/collections/api/org/apache/commons/collect
ions/FastHashMap.html


-Original Message-
From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:36 PM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

No such thing.  Collections is a class.

-Original Message-
From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 2:23 PM

...(such as in the
Fast*** implementations in the Collections package)



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RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-21 Thread Jacob Hookom

My amiga runs NetBeans just fine

-Original Message-
From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:22 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE

Win2k, 1Ghz Pentium 3, 512 MB RAM, Sun JDK 1.4.1 and the menus still don't 
respond like a native application.  It's either Swing or NetBeans use of 
Swing that is slowing it down.  Plus, it's at least 30 MB larger than 
Eclipse.


David






>From: Joel Wickard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:13:39 -0600
>
>Durham David Cntr 805CSS/SCBE wrote:
>
>>on a P4 with the Sun's newest runtime environment, it runs great.
>>
>>
>>
>I've got a p3 @ 900 / 256 ram and I think it runs fine.
>
>
>--
>To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
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Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-21 Thread David Graham

Win2k, 1Ghz Pentium 3, 512 MB RAM, Sun JDK 1.4.1 and the menus still don't 
respond like a native application.  It's either Swing or NetBeans use of 
Swing that is slowing it down.  Plus, it's at least 30 MB larger than 
Eclipse.


David






From: Joel Wickard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:13:39 -0600

Durham David Cntr 805CSS/SCBE wrote:


on a P4 with the Sun's newest runtime environment, it runs great.




I've got a p3 @ 900 / 256 ram and I think it runs fine.


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RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Mark Galbreath

No such thing.  Collections is a class.

-Original Message-
From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 2:23 PM

...(such as in the
Fast*** implementations in the Collections package)



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RE: Re[2]: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-21 Thread Chappell, Simon P

Doh! Don't encourage him Jacob!

>-Original Message-
>From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 11:44 AM
>To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
>Subject: RE: Re[2]: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>
>
>There's actually a new article at Javaworld about using Flash 
>with XML/J2EE
>as a presentation layer.  The article is a little underdone though.
>
>http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-01-2003/jw-0117-flash.html
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:39 AM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: RE: Re[2]: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>
>And I was convinced that it was written in Flash.
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:34 AM
>>To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'; 'Rick Reumann'
>>Subject: RE: Re[2]: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>>
>>
>>Mark said it's writtn in VB.Net :D
>>
>>
>>--
>>James Mitchell
>>Software Engineer/Struts Evangelist
>>http://www.open-tools.org/
>>
>>"The man who does not read good books has no advantage over 
>the man who
>>cannot read them."
>>  - Mark Twain (1835-1910)
>>
>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Rick Reumann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 11:26 AM
>>> To: Struts Users Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re[2]: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, 10:53:31 AM, ROSSEL wrote:
>>> 
>>> RO> Then what's the way Idea works? It is supposed to be fast. Which
>>> RO> widget family does it use?
>>> 
>>> That's what I find so amazingI use IDEA and it flies. Totally as
>>> fast as any Windows app I run. No joke. The scary part is 
>>it's totally
>>> written in Swing from what I understand. I almost don't believe it.
>>> They really have their 'stuff' together over at Intellij 
>>I'll tell you
>>> that.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> 
>>> Rick
>>> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> 
>>
>>
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RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Jacob Hookom

I have a question, why does cloning the tables or collection (such as in the
Fast*** implementations in the Collections package) constitute fast?

-Original Message-
From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:14 PM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

Only if you can tell the difference between a Hashtable and a vector (or a
Collection and a Collections)

-Original Message-
From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 11:26 AM

If I wasn't working here for geographical/religious reasons, then I'd be
freshening up my resume and going to work with Mark. (well, maybe not ;-)

Simon

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RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Mark Galbreath

Only if you can tell the difference between a Hashtable and a vector (or a
Collection and a Collections)

-Original Message-
From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 11:26 AM

If I wasn't working here for geographical/religious reasons, then I'd be
freshening up my resume and going to work with Mark. (well, maybe not ;-)

Simon



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Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-21 Thread Joel Wickard

Durham David Cntr 805CSS/SCBE wrote:


on a P4 with the Sun's newest runtime environment, it runs great.

 

I've got a p3 @ 900 / 256 ram and I think it runs fine.


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Re: AW: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers

2003-01-21 Thread David Geary

Kenny Smith wrote:


Hi s.frank,

I think your first paragraph and second make different points. I 
completely disagree that choice of IDE is just an aesthetic choice. 
Your second point about the Perforce-Integration is talking about 
specific functionality. If your project requires specific 
functionality, then the choices of IDEs are limited. However, people 
think differently. Take NetBeans and Eclipse. They do the same job, 
but they do it in VASTLY different ways. Why? Because different people 
have different ideas. One person will be far more productive using 
Eclipse and a different person will be more productive with NetBeans.

Yes.


Seriously... who _cares_ if it's easier for an administrator to setup 
a new box. That is a one time event and completely gets lost in the 
amount of time a developer will spend using the machine. In addition, 
IDEs are pretty darn easy to install. My box at work came without one, 
I chose my favorite and installed that one.

Sure -- let each developer set up their own environment.


It's a myth that using one IDE improves team performance.


I agree. Consider Struts (and thus getting this thread somewhat back on 
topic). Who cares what IDE Craig or Ted or any of the other committers 
use? In an OO development environment, define the interfaces between 
subsystems, divie up the work, and integrate the work of different 
developers when the time comes. How each developer accomplishes his 
subsystem is immaterial as long as the functionality and interfaces are 
well-defined.


david



Kenny Smith
JournalScape.com

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


I think there exist many and more fruitful ways to express your
individuality than using IDE A rather than that ide B. 
If the IDE is not important, why not standardize one: Makes it easier 
for
administrators to setup new boxes, allows to pass the box to another
member of your team, allows to use the same plug-ins and so on: Just 
think
about Integration with version-Control: Cowboy-Coder A uses Eclipse 
which
has a bug with Perforce-Integration, Cowboy-Coder B insists on using
IntelliJ, which has no Perforce-Integration at all: And the Newbie-Coder
comes in and is totally confused as there exist three ways of setting up
your enviroment. No Standards at all are ok if you have a team-size of
one...  
--- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --- Datum: 21.01.2003 16:20
Von: "James Childers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
An: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Betreff: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
 

I second this. Different people work in different ways; 
standardizing an


IDE for every developer ignores this rather key fact of human nature. If
my company were to standardize on an IDE that some people don't like,
they're just going to be frustrated and bitter, decreasing productivity.


*shudder* Thank Baal they don't do that at my company. Everybody can 
use


whatever development tools they want, so long as the code compiles and
passes the unit tests.


I use Eclipse and Vim, primarily. If management tried to take away 
Vim I


would have to tell them to... well... You get the idea.


Speaking of which, I've been tinkering with IDEA lately, and it looks



quite promising. Tight, and as fast as Eclipse. Plus I like the fact 
that
I can do everything within it without using the keyboard. And it can do
regexp search and replaces, which is one of the main things keeping me
married to Vim right now.

-= J



-Original Message-
From: Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:16 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers

On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Daniel H. F. e Silva wrote:



My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, 


order is order.


I think his concern about this task is to improve 


productivity. So, what is more productive?

If he wants productivity then let the developers use the tools they 
are
familiar with.


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RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-21 Thread Daniel H. F. e Silva

Well, using a GeForce 4 with 64MB of DDR RAM i didn't see any problem... ;->

Daniel.
--- David Graham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> That's not an opinion it's a fact.  Netbeans is based on Swing which is slow 
> as molasses.  Check your OS's memory monitor to see the difference (about 30 
> MB).  Click on a Netbeans menu and you can feel the unresponsiveness.
> 
> David
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >From: "Haseltine, Celeste" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
> >Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:39:19 -0600
> >
> >Daniel,
> >
> >Eclipse is much faster than Netbeans, in my opinion, and is not as much of 
> >a
> >memory hog as Netbeans is.  If you select the right plug-ins, Eclipse is an
> >excellent IDE for all J2EE development EXCEPT JSP pages.  We use Eclipse
> >here for everything (EJB, Java Beans, servlets) BUT JSP development, and 
> >use
> >Macromedia Dreamweaver MX for the JSP development.  Dreamweaver MX has the
> >ability to "pull in" external tag libraries into the IDE, and will enable
> >code completion for those tag libraries inside of it's IDE.  So when I
> >incorporated the Struts logic, HTML, and bean tag libraries into
> >Dreamweaver, the code completion for those tags is enabled for our JSP
> >developers.  HTML layout/design is also much simpler in Dreamweaver, as 
> >long
> >as you stay away from the wizards that are included in Dreamweaver (adds 
> >too
> >much extraneous code into the HTML).
> >
> >Hopefully, the HTML and JSP development features of Eclipse will be 
> >improved
> >soon.
> >
> >Celeste
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 7:35 PM
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE
> >
> >
> >Hi all,
> >  I know that it is very possible that this subject was already discussed
> >here, but i couldn't
> >search on archives (why is this resource disabled?).
> >  I'm beginning to design a software development process specification as a
> >job task. It will
> >include, for instance, a list of all tools, software, frameworks, etc,
> >necessary to develop
> >Web-based solutions in J2EE platform.
> >  And after doing a lot of research, i've found that open-source world has
> >two leading IDEs:
> >Netbeans and Eclipse.
> >  I'd like to hear about experiences with both of them. In my preliminary
> >tests i guess it was
> >difficult to work with Eclipse with focus on Web development. For instance,
> >it doesn't have a cool
> >JSP editor like Netbeans. I've tried an Eclipse plugin, but its features 
> >are
> >inferior than
> >Netbeans offered features.
> >  But i liked Eclipse's plugins feature. And it has a better aproach to
> >manage code quality than
> >Netbeans.
> >  So, opinions?
> >
> >Best regards,
> >  Daniel.
> >
> >PS: Sorry for possible language mistakes. English is not my native 
> >language.
> >
> >__
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=
-
Daniel H. F. e Silva
Analista de Sistemas
SBPI

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RE: Re[2]: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-21 Thread Durham David Cntr 805CSS/SCBE

I guess that I'm the only one that doesn't have a problem with Netbeans' speed.  On 
older system, I agree it might be unusuable, but on a P4 with the Sun's newest runtime 
environment, it runs great.

Dave

> -Original Message-
> From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 11:11 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Re[2]: [OT] Eclipse IDE
> 
> 
> Fast swing implementation?  There's a first time for everything :-).
> 
> David
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >From: Rick Reumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: Rick Reumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re[2]: [OT] Eclipse IDE
> >Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:26:11 -0500
> >
> >On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, 10:53:31 AM, ROSSEL wrote:
> >
> >RO> Then what's the way Idea works? It is supposed to be fast. Which
> >RO> widget family does it use?
> >
> >That's what I find so amazingI use IDEA and it flies. Totally as
> >fast as any Windows app I run. No joke. The scary part is 
> it's totally
> >written in Swing from what I understand. I almost don't believe it.
> >They really have their 'stuff' together over at Intellij 
> I'll tell you
> >that.
> >
> >
> >--
> >
> >Rick
> >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >--
> >To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
> ><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >For additional commands, e-mail: 
> ><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
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RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Daniel H. F. e Silva

Hi all,

--- "Chappell, Simon P" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Typically management worry about not having someone to blame if there is a problem. 

You gotcha!

> I told him that there was the ASF, but that there is an explicit no warranty clause 
>in the
> Apache license.

And do Microsoft, IBM, Sun, Oracle, etc, give warranty about their products? 

> Money is usually a very small factor in the issue.

Well, so i have to praise the Lord for my boss. The cheaper the solution, the best it 
is.

Best regards,
 Daniel.

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RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Haseltine, Celeste

Good luck Simon.  Personally, when a management team begins to make really
silly, non-productive decisions like the one you mentioned, I start looking
around for another position, discretely, of course.  Things like that just
make doing your job that much harder, and really impact the atmosphere and
productivity of the work environment.

Best of luck to you

Celeste

-Original Message-
From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:55 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)


Celeste,

Actually, I do have full rights to my machine. You should see the list of
non-approved software on here! :-D

Concerning starting and stopping services, we will have a development server
to publish to so that we don't need that ability on our workstations.

I have very strongly represented that this approach is so far below
sub-optimal that it isn't funny, but management still want everything locked
down.

Simon

>-Original Message-
>From: Haseltine, Celeste [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:39 AM
>To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
>Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>Simon, 
>
>To my knowledge, on Windows 2000, you can put people into 
>"roles", such as
>Admin, User, etc.  This will limit the user's ability to 
>install software,
>but if you can "guess" the admins password successfully, then 
>you just add
>yourself into the Admin role on the machine, and your home 
>free.  In fact,
>there is software out there that does just that, as my young 
>(21 year old)
>network admin has advised me of.  We have had several people 
>in the company
>(non development staff) use that same software to install KaZaa and/or
>Morpheus, thereby bypassing the User "lock" on their machines. 
> I have no
>problem if people use their machines after business hours to 
>download large
>files, but during business hours, it ties up the bandwidth we need to
>conduct business.  
>
>By the way, how is your staff going to be able to start/stop your local
>version of the application server on their dev boxes?  We use 
>JRUN 4.0 here,
>and it requires you to be in the admin role on the machine to 
>be able to
>start/stop the server on your local machine for development 
>purposes.  And
>we use an Eclipse plug in for JRUN to start/stop the server, 
>debug, and to
>compile our JSP pages down to servlets.  None of that would be 
>possible on
>the local developers machine if we moved their login to simply 
>a User role,
>vs the Admin role.  Perhaps if you look closer at what each 
>developer needs
>access to in order to do his/her job, then you could make a 
>case for leaving
>the development staff in the Admin role on their machines.
>
>Celeste  
>
>-----Original Message-
>From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:26 AM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>Celeste,
>
>With Windows 2000, it is very possible to lock down a machine. 
>Now, it is
>also hackable, but that would be against policy and therefore 
>a "punishable
>by dismissal" offence.
>
>It is a huge drag on productivity and this has been pointed out and
>rejected. So, let them manage the developers however they 
>wish. My personal
>laptop and I will continue to be productive.
>
>If I wasn't working here for geographical/religious reasons, 
>then I'd be
>freshening up my resume and going to work with Mark. (well, 
>maybe not ;-)
>
>Simon
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Haseltine, Celeste [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:13 AM
>>To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
>>Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>>
>>
>>Simon, 
>>
>>How in the world can you lock down a developers machine?  Not 
>>only is that
>>non-productive in my opinion, but I suspect that half the 
>>staff would be
>>spending some of their time trying to figure out the admin 
>>password on their
>>machine, just to "remove" the "lock" (for Windows only 
>>operating systems, of
>>course).  You must have a separate IT support department that 
>>is on a power
>>trip trying to control the IT development groups machines.
>>
>>Like you, I would be bringing in my own laptop, and doing my 
>work in it
>>while looking for another job.
>>
>>Celeste
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>

RE: Re[2]: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-21 Thread Jacob Hookom

There's actually a new article at Javaworld about using Flash with XML/J2EE
as a presentation layer.  The article is a little underdone though.

http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-01-2003/jw-0117-flash.html



-Original Message-
From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:39 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: Re[2]: [OT] Eclipse IDE

And I was convinced that it was written in Flash.

>-Original Message-
>From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:34 AM
>To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'; 'Rick Reumann'
>Subject: RE: Re[2]: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>
>
>Mark said it's writtn in VB.Net :D
>
>
>--
>James Mitchell
>Software Engineer/Struts Evangelist
>http://www.open-tools.org/
>
>"The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who
>cannot read them."
>   - Mark Twain (1835-1910)
>
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Rick Reumann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 11:26 AM
>> To: Struts Users Mailing List
>> Subject: Re[2]: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>> 
>> 
>> On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, 10:53:31 AM, ROSSEL wrote:
>> 
>> RO> Then what's the way Idea works? It is supposed to be fast. Which
>> RO> widget family does it use?
>> 
>> That's what I find so amazingI use IDEA and it flies. Totally as
>> fast as any Windows app I run. No joke. The scary part is 
>it's totally
>> written in Swing from what I understand. I almost don't believe it.
>> They really have their 'stuff' together over at Intellij 
>I'll tell you
>> that.
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> Rick
>> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
>> <mailto:struts-user-> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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>> additional commands, 
>> e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> 
>> 
>
>
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Re: Re[2]: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-21 Thread David Graham

Fast swing implementation?  There's a first time for everything :-).

David







From: Rick Reumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Rick Reumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re[2]: [OT] Eclipse IDE
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:26:11 -0500

On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, 10:53:31 AM, ROSSEL wrote:

RO> Then what's the way Idea works? It is supposed to be fast. Which
RO> widget family does it use?

That's what I find so amazingI use IDEA and it flies. Totally as
fast as any Windows app I run. No joke. The scary part is it's totally
written in Swing from what I understand. I almost don't believe it.
They really have their 'stuff' together over at Intellij I'll tell you
that.


--

Rick
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Chappell, Simon P

True, but I'm still here because of geo-relegious* reasons and that makes up and 
moving off difficult. This means that I need to stay in the arena and keep swinging 
the sword of common sense, among others, for a while yet.

Simon

* I am assisting in the startup of a United Pentecostal Church in Dodgeville (I'm a 
lay preacher) and it's awfully hard to fulfill such a calling living anywhere else, 
and my employer is the only game in town for geeks unless I drive long'ish distances.

>-Original Message-
>From: James Childers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 11:02 AM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>Wow. Sounds like you have issues of controlling egos entering 
>into the equation. At this point I would just throw my hands 
>up and start looking around. IMHO, ego is the number one cause 
>of project failures: the unspoken subtext is "We have to do it 
>this way because I said so. If we don't, it will make me look 
>bad. Therefore, I will fight like mad to do things this way, 
>no matter what."
>
>There is no more certain recipe for failure than this.
>
>-= J
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:55 AM
>> To: Struts Users Mailing List
>> Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] 
>Eclipse IDE)
>> 
>> Celeste,
>> 
>> Actually, I do have full rights to my machine. You should see 
>> the list of non-approved software on here! :-D
>> 
>> Concerning starting and stopping services, we will have a 
>> development server to publish to so that we don't need that 
>> ability on our workstations.
>> 
>> I have very strongly represented that this approach is so far 
>> below sub-optimal that it isn't funny, but management still 
>> want everything locked down.
>> 
>> Simon
>> 
>
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RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread James Childers

Wow. Sounds like you have issues of controlling egos entering into the equation. At 
this point I would just throw my hands up and start looking around. IMHO, ego is the 
number one cause of project failures: the unspoken subtext is "We have to do it this 
way because I said so. If we don't, it will make me look bad. Therefore, I will fight 
like mad to do things this way, no matter what."

There is no more certain recipe for failure than this.

-= J

> -Original Message-
> From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:55 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
> 
> Celeste,
> 
> Actually, I do have full rights to my machine. You should see 
> the list of non-approved software on here! :-D
> 
> Concerning starting and stopping services, we will have a 
> development server to publish to so that we don't need that 
> ability on our workstations.
> 
> I have very strongly represented that this approach is so far 
> below sub-optimal that it isn't funny, but management still 
> want everything locked down.
> 
> Simon
> 

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RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Chappell, Simon P

Celeste,

Actually, I do have full rights to my machine. You should see the list of non-approved 
software on here! :-D

Concerning starting and stopping services, we will have a development server to 
publish to so that we don't need that ability on our workstations.

I have very strongly represented that this approach is so far below sub-optimal that 
it isn't funny, but management still want everything locked down.

Simon

>-Original Message-
>From: Haseltine, Celeste [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:39 AM
>To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
>Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>Simon, 
>
>To my knowledge, on Windows 2000, you can put people into 
>"roles", such as
>Admin, User, etc.  This will limit the user's ability to 
>install software,
>but if you can "guess" the admins password successfully, then 
>you just add
>yourself into the Admin role on the machine, and your home 
>free.  In fact,
>there is software out there that does just that, as my young 
>(21 year old)
>network admin has advised me of.  We have had several people 
>in the company
>(non development staff) use that same software to install KaZaa and/or
>Morpheus, thereby bypassing the User "lock" on their machines. 
> I have no
>problem if people use their machines after business hours to 
>download large
>files, but during business hours, it ties up the bandwidth we need to
>conduct business.  
>
>By the way, how is your staff going to be able to start/stop your local
>version of the application server on their dev boxes?  We use 
>JRUN 4.0 here,
>and it requires you to be in the admin role on the machine to 
>be able to
>start/stop the server on your local machine for development 
>purposes.  And
>we use an Eclipse plug in for JRUN to start/stop the server, 
>debug, and to
>compile our JSP pages down to servlets.  None of that would be 
>possible on
>the local developers machine if we moved their login to simply 
>a User role,
>vs the Admin role.  Perhaps if you look closer at what each 
>developer needs
>access to in order to do his/her job, then you could make a 
>case for leaving
>the development staff in the Admin role on their machines.
>
>Celeste  
>
>-----Original Message-
>From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:26 AM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>Celeste,
>
>With Windows 2000, it is very possible to lock down a machine. 
>Now, it is
>also hackable, but that would be against policy and therefore 
>a "punishable
>by dismissal" offence.
>
>It is a huge drag on productivity and this has been pointed out and
>rejected. So, let them manage the developers however they 
>wish. My personal
>laptop and I will continue to be productive.
>
>If I wasn't working here for geographical/religious reasons, 
>then I'd be
>freshening up my resume and going to work with Mark. (well, 
>maybe not ;-)
>
>Simon
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Haseltine, Celeste [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:13 AM
>>To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
>>Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>>
>>
>>Simon, 
>>
>>How in the world can you lock down a developers machine?  Not 
>>only is that
>>non-productive in my opinion, but I suspect that half the 
>>staff would be
>>spending some of their time trying to figure out the admin 
>>password on their
>>machine, just to "remove" the "lock" (for Windows only 
>>operating systems, of
>>course).  You must have a separate IT support department that 
>>is on a power
>>trip trying to control the IT development groups machines.
>>
>>Like you, I would be bringing in my own laptop, and doing my 
>work in it
>>while looking for another job.
>>
>>Celeste
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:31 AM
>>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>>Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>>
>>
>>Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will 
>>be obvious to
>>experienced IS developers) also have the belief that 
>standardisation is
>>good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th 
>>degree and
>>they will all be locked down so that you can't change 
>>anyt

RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Haseltine, Celeste

Simon, 

To my knowledge, on Windows 2000, you can put people into "roles", such as
Admin, User, etc.  This will limit the user's ability to install software,
but if you can "guess" the admins password successfully, then you just add
yourself into the Admin role on the machine, and your home free.  In fact,
there is software out there that does just that, as my young (21 year old)
network admin has advised me of.  We have had several people in the company
(non development staff) use that same software to install KaZaa and/or
Morpheus, thereby bypassing the User "lock" on their machines.  I have no
problem if people use their machines after business hours to download large
files, but during business hours, it ties up the bandwidth we need to
conduct business.  

By the way, how is your staff going to be able to start/stop your local
version of the application server on their dev boxes?  We use JRUN 4.0 here,
and it requires you to be in the admin role on the machine to be able to
start/stop the server on your local machine for development purposes.  And
we use an Eclipse plug in for JRUN to start/stop the server, debug, and to
compile our JSP pages down to servlets.  None of that would be possible on
the local developers machine if we moved their login to simply a User role,
vs the Admin role.  Perhaps if you look closer at what each developer needs
access to in order to do his/her job, then you could make a case for leaving
the development staff in the Admin role on their machines.

Celeste  

-Original Message-
From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:26 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)


Celeste,

With Windows 2000, it is very possible to lock down a machine. Now, it is
also hackable, but that would be against policy and therefore a "punishable
by dismissal" offence.

It is a huge drag on productivity and this has been pointed out and
rejected. So, let them manage the developers however they wish. My personal
laptop and I will continue to be productive.

If I wasn't working here for geographical/religious reasons, then I'd be
freshening up my resume and going to work with Mark. (well, maybe not ;-)

Simon

>-Original Message-
>From: Haseltine, Celeste [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:13 AM
>To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
>Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>Simon, 
>
>How in the world can you lock down a developers machine?  Not 
>only is that
>non-productive in my opinion, but I suspect that half the 
>staff would be
>spending some of their time trying to figure out the admin 
>password on their
>machine, just to "remove" the "lock" (for Windows only 
>operating systems, of
>course).  You must have a separate IT support department that 
>is on a power
>trip trying to control the IT development groups machines.
>
>Like you, I would be bringing in my own laptop, and doing my work in it
>while looking for another job.
>
>Celeste
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:31 AM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will 
>be obvious to
>experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is
>good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th 
>degree and
>they will all be locked down so that you can't change 
>anything. You can't
>even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, 
>you'd better like
>it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of
>productivity.
>
>Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share?
>
>I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of 
>my tinkering
>on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the 
>company, but you
>wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I 
>have introduced
>to the company's IS environment four new tools that I 
>evaluated by tinkering
>with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are
>Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and 
>Cygwin. The funny
>thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are 
>going to be
>part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh.
>
>Simon
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM
>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Tow

AW: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers

2003-01-21 Thread s . frank

maybe the economic downturn should go on for a while and some of the lesser
talented will go back to farming...
--- Ursprüngliche Nachricht ---
Datum: 21.01.2003 17:18
Von: "Andrew Hill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
An: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Betreff: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers

> Im surprised sich developers have jobs in todays market.
> Surely there must be a glut of more experienced developers that can be
> obtained at the same price?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 00:15
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: AW: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
>
>
> ok, I think it's time for us all, to lower our standards: Talking about
> newbies: The newbies I mean have just started Java. They think R/3 is a
> piece of good Software instead of a piece of crappy scripts. They asked
> things like: "What do you mean with Transaction?",  "Huh, why a
database
> *and* an applicationserver?". And if you ask them for their favourite
> tool, they show you a Chainsaw and a Screwdriver(ok, only the better
ones
> have screwdrivers). If you tell them: Use what makes you more
productive
> they stick to paper&pencil. I understand them, if you start there,
there
> is nothing you can decide upon. You have to tell them: But if you have
> more than one senior-coder, it would be nice if they agreed on what
they
> tell them...
>
>
> --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht ---
> Datum: 21.01.2003 16:48
> Von: "James Childers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> An: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Betreff: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
>
> > This isn't about "expressing your individuality", it's about doing
what
> makes you -- the coder -- more productive. If it's your job to write
code,

> and you feel more comfortable using your favorite tool, then by all
means
> use it.
> >
> > As far as administrative costs are concerned: Coders are smart enough
to
> troubleshoot their own boxes, and if they're not then they damn well
> should be.
> >
> > Newbies? I challenge the notion that forcing new toolsets on them is
> productive in the long run. It is completely within the realm of
> possibility that they will have a shorter ramp-up time if they are able
to
> use tools they are already familiar with to integrate with existing
> standards.
> >
> > In short: I have never encountered a development environment where it
> would be better to standardize upon a single, monolithic work
environment
> for all developers. Some people like Emacs, some like Eclipse, some
like
> directly editing bytecode with a hex editor. Whatever. So long as the
> project gets done on time, on budget, and meets the requirements *it
> doesn't matter*.
> >
> > -= J
> >
> > PS: I am currently working on a team of 12 developers who each use
their
> own toolset. We are ahead of schedule and under budget.
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:30 AM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: AW: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
> > >
> > >
> > > I think there exist many and more fruitful ways to express your
> > > individuality than using IDE A rather than that ide B.
> > >
> > > If the IDE is not important, why not standardize one: Makes
> > > it easier for
> > > administrators to setup new boxes, allows to pass the box to
another
> > > member of your team, allows to use the same plug-ins and so
> > > on: Just think
> > > about Integration with version-Control: Cowboy-Coder A uses
> > > Eclipse which
> > > has a bug with Perforce-Integration, Cowboy-Coder B insists on
using
> > > IntelliJ, which has no Perforce-Integration at all: And the
> > > Newbie-Coder
> > > comes in and is totally confused as there exist three ways of
> > > setting up
> > > your enviroment. No Standards at all are ok if you have a team-size
> of
> > > one...
> > >
> > > --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht ---
> > > Datum: 21.01.2003 16:20
> > > Von: "James Childers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > An: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Betreff: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I second this. Different people work in different ways;
>

RE: Re[2]: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-21 Thread James Mitchell

DOH!!

--
James Mitchell
Software Engineer/Struts Evangelist
http://www.open-tools.org/

"The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who
cannot read them."
- Mark Twain (1835-1910)



> -Original Message-
> From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 11:39 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: Re[2]: [OT] Eclipse IDE
> 
> 
> And I was convinced that it was written in Flash.
> 
> >-Original Message-
> >From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:34 AM
> >To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'; 'Rick Reumann'
> >Subject: RE: Re[2]: [OT] Eclipse IDE
> >
> >
> >Mark said it's writtn in VB.Net :D
> >
> >
> >--
> >James Mitchell
> >Software Engineer/Struts Evangelist
> >http://www.open-tools.org/
> >
> >"The man who does not read good books has no advantage over 
> the man who
> >cannot read them."
> > - Mark Twain (1835-1910)
> >
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Rick Reumann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 11:26 AM
> >> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> >> Subject: Re[2]: [OT] Eclipse IDE
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, 10:53:31 AM, ROSSEL wrote:
> >> 
> >> RO> Then what's the way Idea works? It is supposed to be 
> fast. Which
> >> RO> widget family does it use?
> >> 
> >> That's what I find so amazingI use IDEA and it flies. 
> Totally as
> >> fast as any Windows app I run. No joke. The scary part is 
> >it's totally
> >> written in Swing from what I understand. I almost don't believe it.
> >> They really have their 'stuff' together over at Intellij 
> >I'll tell you
> >> that.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> -- 
> >> 
> >> Rick
> >> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> 
> >> 
> >> --
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
> >> <mailto:struts-user-> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> For 
> >> additional commands, 
> >> e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> 
> >> 
> >
> >
> >--
> >To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail: 
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> 
> --
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> unsubscribe, e-mail:   
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> additional commands, 
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> 


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RE: Re[2]: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-21 Thread Chappell, Simon P

And I was convinced that it was written in Flash.

>-Original Message-
>From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:34 AM
>To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'; 'Rick Reumann'
>Subject: RE: Re[2]: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>
>
>Mark said it's writtn in VB.Net :D
>
>
>--
>James Mitchell
>Software Engineer/Struts Evangelist
>http://www.open-tools.org/
>
>"The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who
>cannot read them."
>   - Mark Twain (1835-1910)
>
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Rick Reumann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 11:26 AM
>> To: Struts Users Mailing List
>> Subject: Re[2]: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>> 
>> 
>> On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, 10:53:31 AM, ROSSEL wrote:
>> 
>> RO> Then what's the way Idea works? It is supposed to be fast. Which
>> RO> widget family does it use?
>> 
>> That's what I find so amazingI use IDEA and it flies. Totally as
>> fast as any Windows app I run. No joke. The scary part is 
>it's totally
>> written in Swing from what I understand. I almost don't believe it.
>> They really have their 'stuff' together over at Intellij 
>I'll tell you
>> that.
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> Rick
>> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
>> <mailto:struts-user-> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> For 
>> additional commands, 
>> e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> 
>> 
>
>
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RE: Re[2]: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-21 Thread James Mitchell

Mark said it's writtn in VB.Net :D


--
James Mitchell
Software Engineer/Struts Evangelist
http://www.open-tools.org/

"The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who
cannot read them."
- Mark Twain (1835-1910)


> -Original Message-
> From: Rick Reumann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 11:26 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re[2]: [OT] Eclipse IDE
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, 10:53:31 AM, ROSSEL wrote:
> 
> RO> Then what's the way Idea works? It is supposed to be fast. Which
> RO> widget family does it use?
> 
> That's what I find so amazingI use IDEA and it flies. Totally as
> fast as any Windows app I run. No joke. The scary part is it's totally
> written in Swing from what I understand. I almost don't believe it.
> They really have their 'stuff' together over at Intellij I'll tell you
> that.
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Rick
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
> <mailto:struts-user-> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For 
> additional commands, 
> e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> 


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RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Chappell, Simon P

That doesn't make you an individual, that makes you a sick puppy.

>-Original Message-
>From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:25 AM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>
>Mark (wears jeans and hiking boots to the office now)
>
>
>As opposed to Andrew who expresses his in-duh-viduality by 
>wearing a jacket
>in a tropical climate when his colleagues wear t-shirts... ;-)
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 00:18
>To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
>Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>One of the reasons I left the T-Mobile project was because the 
>client was
>incredibly anal-retentive about the most trivial crap.  As I 
>always say,
>"Don't sweat the petty stuff, and don't pet the sweaty stuff."
>
>Death to cube farms and ties!
>
>Mark (wears jeans and hiking boots to the office now)
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:45 AM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>I wear jeans. (Although I do buy them from the company at a 
>very reasonable
>discount)
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:40 AM
>>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>>Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>>
>>
>>So, do you have to pay for your own uniforms, or does the
>>company supply
>>them?
>>
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 22:31
>>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>>Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>>
>>
>>Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will
>>be obvious to
>>experienced IS developers) also have the belief that 
>standardisation is
>>good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th
>>degree and
>>they will all be locked down so that you can't change
>>anything. You can't
>>even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined,
>>you'd better like
>>it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of
>>productivity.
>>
>>Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share?
>>
>>I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of
>>my tinkering
>>on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the
>>company, but you
>>wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I
>>have introduced
>>to the company's IS environment four new tools that I
>>evaluated by tinkering
>>with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these 
>tools are
>>Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and
>>Cygwin. The funny
>>thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are
>>going to be
>>part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh.
>>
>>Simon
>>
>>>-Original Message-
>>>From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM
>>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
>>>
>>>
>>>Hi all,
>>> I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list.
>>> Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate
>>>everybody to adopt my recomendations.
>>>My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So,
>>>order is order.
>>> I think his concern about this task is to improve
>>>productivity. So, what is more productive?
>>> Following our discussion, does someone have experience
>>>writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is
>>>this kind of task?
>>>
>>>Best regards,
>>> Daniel.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>__
>>>Do you Yahoo!?
>>>Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
>>>http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>>>
>>>--
>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>><mailto:struts-user->[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>For
>>>additional commands,
>>>e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>--
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>><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>>
>>--
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>
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>
>
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Re[2]: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-21 Thread Rick Reumann

On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, 10:53:31 AM, ROSSEL wrote:

RO> Then what's the way Idea works? It is supposed to be fast. Which
RO> widget family does it use?

That's what I find so amazingI use IDEA and it flies. Totally as
fast as any Windows app I run. No joke. The scary part is it's totally
written in Swing from what I understand. I almost don't believe it.
They really have their 'stuff' together over at Intellij I'll tell you
that.


-- 

Rick
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Andrew Hill


Mark (wears jeans and hiking boots to the office now)


As opposed to Andrew who expresses his in-duh-viduality by wearing a jacket
in a tropical climate when his colleagues wear t-shirts... ;-)

-Original Message-
From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 00:18
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)


One of the reasons I left the T-Mobile project was because the client was
incredibly anal-retentive about the most trivial crap.  As I always say,
"Don't sweat the petty stuff, and don't pet the sweaty stuff."

Death to cube farms and ties!

Mark (wears jeans and hiking boots to the office now)

-Original Message-
From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:45 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)


I wear jeans. (Although I do buy them from the company at a very reasonable
discount)

>-Original Message-
>From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:40 AM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>So, do you have to pay for your own uniforms, or does the
>company supply
>them?
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 22:31
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will
>be obvious to
>experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is
>good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th
>degree and
>they will all be locked down so that you can't change
>anything. You can't
>even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined,
>you'd better like
>it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of
>productivity.
>
>Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share?
>
>I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of
>my tinkering
>on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the
>company, but you
>wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I
>have introduced
>to the company's IS environment four new tools that I
>evaluated by tinkering
>with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are
>Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and
>Cygwin. The funny
>thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are
>going to be
>part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh.
>
>Simon
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM
>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
>>
>>
>>Hi all,
>> I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list.
>> Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate
>>everybody to adopt my recomendations.
>>My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So,
>>order is order.
>> I think his concern about this task is to improve
>>productivity. So, what is more productive?
>> Following our discussion, does someone have experience
>>writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is
>>this kind of task?
>>
>>Best regards,
>> Daniel.
>>
>>
>>
>>__
>>Do you Yahoo!?
>>Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
>>http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>>
>>--
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>><mailto:struts-user->[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>For
>>additional commands,
>>e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>>
>
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RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Chappell, Simon P

Celeste,

With Windows 2000, it is very possible to lock down a machine. Now, it is also 
hackable, but that would be against policy and therefore a "punishable by dismissal" 
offence.

It is a huge drag on productivity and this has been pointed out and rejected. So, let 
them manage the developers however they wish. My personal laptop and I will continue 
to be productive.

If I wasn't working here for geographical/religious reasons, then I'd be freshening up 
my resume and going to work with Mark. (well, maybe not ;-)

Simon

>-Original Message-
>From: Haseltine, Celeste [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:13 AM
>To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
>Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>Simon, 
>
>How in the world can you lock down a developers machine?  Not 
>only is that
>non-productive in my opinion, but I suspect that half the 
>staff would be
>spending some of their time trying to figure out the admin 
>password on their
>machine, just to "remove" the "lock" (for Windows only 
>operating systems, of
>course).  You must have a separate IT support department that 
>is on a power
>trip trying to control the IT development groups machines.
>
>Like you, I would be bringing in my own laptop, and doing my work in it
>while looking for another job.
>
>Celeste
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:31 AM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will 
>be obvious to
>experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is
>good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th 
>degree and
>they will all be locked down so that you can't change 
>anything. You can't
>even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, 
>you'd better like
>it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of
>productivity.
>
>Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share?
>
>I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of 
>my tinkering
>on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the 
>company, but you
>wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I 
>have introduced
>to the company's IS environment four new tools that I 
>evaluated by tinkering
>with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are
>Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and 
>Cygwin. The funny
>thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are 
>going to be
>part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh.
>
>Simon
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM
>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
>>
>>
>>Hi all,
>> I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list.
>> Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate 
>>everybody to adopt my
>>recomendations.
>>My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, 
>>order is order.
>> I think his concern about this task is to improve 
>>productivity. So, what is more productive?
>> Following our discussion, does someone have experience 
>>writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is
>>this kind of task?
>>
>>Best regards,
>> Daniel.
>> 
>>
>>
>>__
>>Do you Yahoo!?
>>Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
>>http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>>
>>--
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
>><mailto:struts-user->[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>For 
>>additional commands, 
>>e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>>
>
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><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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>
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RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Haseltine, Celeste

Simon, 

How in the world can you lock down a developers machine?  Not only is that
non-productive in my opinion, but I suspect that half the staff would be
spending some of their time trying to figure out the admin password on their
machine, just to "remove" the "lock" (for Windows only operating systems, of
course).  You must have a separate IT support department that is on a power
trip trying to control the IT development groups machines.

Like you, I would be bringing in my own laptop, and doing my work in it
while looking for another job.

Celeste

-Original Message-
From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:31 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)


Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will be obvious to
experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is
good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th degree and
they will all be locked down so that you can't change anything. You can't
even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, you'd better like
it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of
productivity.

Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share?

I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of my tinkering
on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the company, but you
wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I have introduced
to the company's IS environment four new tools that I evaluated by tinkering
with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are
Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and Cygwin. The funny
thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are going to be
part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh.

Simon

>-Original Message-
>From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
>
>
>Hi all,
> I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list.
> Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate 
>everybody to adopt my
>recomendations.
>My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, 
>order is order.
> I think his concern about this task is to improve 
>productivity. So, what is more productive?
> Following our discussion, does someone have experience 
>writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is
>this kind of task?
>
>Best regards,
> Daniel.
> 
>
>
>__
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
>http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
>--
>To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
><mailto:struts-user->[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>For 
>additional commands, 
>e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>

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RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers

2003-01-21 Thread Andrew Hill

Im surprised sich developers have jobs in todays market.
Surely there must be a glut of more experienced developers that can be
obtained at the same price?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 00:15
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: AW: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers


ok, I think it's time for us all, to lower our standards: Talking about
newbies: The newbies I mean have just started Java. They think R/3 is a
piece of good Software instead of a piece of crappy scripts. They asked
things like: "What do you mean with Transaction?",  "Huh, why a database
*and* an applicationserver?". And if you ask them for their favourite
tool, they show you a Chainsaw and a Screwdriver(ok, only the better ones
have screwdrivers). If you tell them: Use what makes you more productive
they stick to paper&pencil. I understand them, if you start there, there
is nothing you can decide upon. You have to tell them: But if you have
more than one senior-coder, it would be nice if they agreed on what they
tell them...


--- Ursprüngliche Nachricht ---
Datum: 21.01.2003 16:48
Von: "James Childers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
An: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Betreff: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers

> This isn't about "expressing your individuality", it's about doing what
makes you -- the coder -- more productive. If it's your job to write code,
and you feel more comfortable using your favorite tool, then by all means
use it.
>
> As far as administrative costs are concerned: Coders are smart enough to
troubleshoot their own boxes, and if they're not then they damn well
should be.
>
> Newbies? I challenge the notion that forcing new toolsets on them is
productive in the long run. It is completely within the realm of
possibility that they will have a shorter ramp-up time if they are able to
use tools they are already familiar with to integrate with existing
standards.
>
> In short: I have never encountered a development environment where it
would be better to standardize upon a single, monolithic work environment
for all developers. Some people like Emacs, some like Eclipse, some like
directly editing bytecode with a hex editor. Whatever. So long as the
project gets done on time, on budget, and meets the requirements *it
doesn't matter*.
>
> -= J
>
> PS: I am currently working on a team of 12 developers who each use their
own toolset. We are ahead of schedule and under budget.
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:30 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: AW: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
> >
> >
> > I think there exist many and more fruitful ways to express your
> > individuality than using IDE A rather than that ide B.
> >
> > If the IDE is not important, why not standardize one: Makes
> > it easier for
> > administrators to setup new boxes, allows to pass the box to another
> > member of your team, allows to use the same plug-ins and so
> > on: Just think
> > about Integration with version-Control: Cowboy-Coder A uses
> > Eclipse which
> > has a bug with Perforce-Integration, Cowboy-Coder B insists on using
> > IntelliJ, which has no Perforce-Integration at all: And the
> > Newbie-Coder
> > comes in and is totally confused as there exist three ways of
> > setting up
> > your enviroment. No Standards at all are ok if you have a team-size
of
> > one...
> >
> > --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht ---
> > Datum: 21.01.2003 16:20
> > Von: "James Childers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > An: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Betreff: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
> >
> > >
> > > I second this. Different people work in different ways;
> > standardizing an
> > IDE for every developer ignores this rather key fact of human
> > nature. If
> > my company were to standardize on an IDE that some people don't like,
> > they're just going to be frustrated and bitter, decreasing
> > productivity.
> > >
> > > *shudder* Thank Baal they don't do that at my company.
> > Everybody can use
> > whatever development tools they want, so long as the code compiles
and
> > passes the unit tests.
> > >
> > > I use Eclipse and Vim, primarily. If management tried to
> > take away Vim I
> > would have to tell them to... well... You get the idea.
> > >
> > > Speaking of which, I've been tinkering with IDEA latel

RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Mark Galbreath

One of the reasons I left the T-Mobile project was because the client was
incredibly anal-retentive about the most trivial crap.  As I always say,
"Don't sweat the petty stuff, and don't pet the sweaty stuff."

Death to cube farms and ties!

Mark (wears jeans and hiking boots to the office now)

-Original Message-
From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:45 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)


I wear jeans. (Although I do buy them from the company at a very reasonable
discount)

>-Original Message-
>From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:40 AM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>So, do you have to pay for your own uniforms, or does the
>company supply
>them?
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 22:31
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will
>be obvious to
>experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is
>good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th 
>degree and
>they will all be locked down so that you can't change 
>anything. You can't
>even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, 
>you'd better like
>it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of
>productivity.
>
>Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share?
>
>I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of
>my tinkering
>on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the 
>company, but you
>wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I 
>have introduced
>to the company's IS environment four new tools that I 
>evaluated by tinkering
>with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are
>Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and 
>Cygwin. The funny
>thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are 
>going to be
>part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh.
>
>Simon
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM
>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
>>
>>
>>Hi all,
>> I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list.
>> Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate 
>>everybody to adopt my recomendations.
>>My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So,
>>order is order.
>> I think his concern about this task is to improve
>>productivity. So, what is more productive?
>> Following our discussion, does someone have experience
>>writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is
>>this kind of task?
>>
>>Best regards,
>> Daniel.
>>
>>
>>
>>__
>>Do you Yahoo!?
>>Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. 
>>http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>>
>>--
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
>><mailto:struts-user->[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>For
>>additional commands,
>>e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>>
>
>--
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>For additional commands, e-mail: 
><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
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AW: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers

2003-01-21 Thread s . frank

ok, I think it's time for us all, to lower our standards: Talking about
newbies: The newbies I mean have just started Java. They think R/3 is a
piece of good Software instead of a piece of crappy scripts. They asked
things like: "What do you mean with Transaction?",  "Huh, why a database
*and* an applicationserver?". And if you ask them for their favourite
tool, they show you a Chainsaw and a Screwdriver(ok, only the better ones
have screwdrivers). If you tell them: Use what makes you more productive
they stick to paper&pencil. I understand them, if you start there, there
is nothing you can decide upon. You have to tell them: But if you have
more than one senior-coder, it would be nice if they agreed on what they
tell them...


--- Ursprüngliche Nachricht ---
Datum: 21.01.2003 16:48
Von: "James Childers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
An: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Betreff: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers

> This isn't about "expressing your individuality", it's about doing what
makes you -- the coder -- more productive. If it's your job to write code,
and you feel more comfortable using your favorite tool, then by all means
use it.
>
> As far as administrative costs are concerned: Coders are smart enough to
troubleshoot their own boxes, and if they're not then they damn well
should be.
>
> Newbies? I challenge the notion that forcing new toolsets on them is
productive in the long run. It is completely within the realm of
possibility that they will have a shorter ramp-up time if they are able to
use tools they are already familiar with to integrate with existing
standards.
>
> In short: I have never encountered a development environment where it
would be better to standardize upon a single, monolithic work environment
for all developers. Some people like Emacs, some like Eclipse, some like
directly editing bytecode with a hex editor. Whatever. So long as the
project gets done on time, on budget, and meets the requirements *it
doesn't matter*.
>
> -= J
>
> PS: I am currently working on a team of 12 developers who each use their
own toolset. We are ahead of schedule and under budget.
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:30 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: AW: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
> >
> >
> > I think there exist many and more fruitful ways to express your
> > individuality than using IDE A rather than that ide B.
> >
> > If the IDE is not important, why not standardize one: Makes
> > it easier for
> > administrators to setup new boxes, allows to pass the box to another
> > member of your team, allows to use the same plug-ins and so
> > on: Just think
> > about Integration with version-Control: Cowboy-Coder A uses
> > Eclipse which
> > has a bug with Perforce-Integration, Cowboy-Coder B insists on using
> > IntelliJ, which has no Perforce-Integration at all: And the
> > Newbie-Coder
> > comes in and is totally confused as there exist three ways of
> > setting up
> > your enviroment. No Standards at all are ok if you have a team-size
of
> > one...
> >
> > --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht ---
> > Datum: 21.01.2003 16:20
> > Von: "James Childers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > An: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Betreff: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
> >
> > >
> > > I second this. Different people work in different ways;
> > standardizing an
> > IDE for every developer ignores this rather key fact of human
> > nature. If
> > my company were to standardize on an IDE that some people don't like,
> > they're just going to be frustrated and bitter, decreasing
> > productivity.
> > >
> > > *shudder* Thank Baal they don't do that at my company.
> > Everybody can use
> > whatever development tools they want, so long as the code compiles
and
> > passes the unit tests.
> > >
> > > I use Eclipse and Vim, primarily. If management tried to
> > take away Vim I
> > would have to tell them to... well... You get the idea.
> > >
> > > Speaking of which, I've been tinkering with IDEA lately,
> > and it looks
> > quite promising. Tight, and as fast as Eclipse. Plus I like
> > the fact that
> > I can do everything within it without using the keyboard. And
> > it can do
> > regexp search and replaces, which is one of the main things keeping
me
> > married to Vim right now.
> > >
> > > -= J
> > >
>

RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Pani, Gourav

The "saving money" ploy goes a long way.  The only thing they had objections
to were Support issues.  But when they saw the "wonderful" WebShpere support
we got, they realized there was no point in paying to get "service".
Additionally, at the time that we made these changes we got a CIO who is a
tech guy and was very supportive of these changes.  The money thing was
still the clincher.

-Original Message-
From: Vinh Tran [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:43 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)


What about management?  I'm sure they liked the idea of saving alot of
money.  But how did they respond to open source solutions?

-Original Message-
From: Pani, Gourav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:28 AM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)


most of the process took about 6 months, which isn't bad at all in my
opinion.  as far as opposition is concered, we got some from the
chronologically challenged members of the team but alas, they were
outnumbered.  my only wish is that jEdit would improve its vi plugin.  then
the circle would really be complete.

-Original Message-
From: Vinh Tran [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:31 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)


Wow...that is quite a transition.  I'm curious to know if these changes were
met with alot of opposition?  How long did it take?

Vinh

-Original Message-
From: Pani, Gourav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:51 AM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)


Suddenly my life doesn't look so bad.  :)

When I first started working for my company we were using Websphere
Application Server, Websphere Application Developer, Oracle/DB2 on Unix
servers.
Now we use Struts, Apache, Resin, jEdit, SAPDB/POSTGRESQL/MySQL on Red Hat
Linux.

Not bad.

-Original Message-
From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:45 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)


I wear jeans. (Although I do buy them from the company at a very reasonable
discount)

>-Original Message-
>From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:40 AM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>So, do you have to pay for your own uniforms, or does the
>company supply
>them?
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 22:31
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will
>be obvious to
>experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is
>good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th
>degree and
>they will all be locked down so that you can't change
>anything. You can't
>even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined,
>you'd better like
>it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of
>productivity.
>
>Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share?
>
>I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of
>my tinkering
>on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the
>company, but you
>wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I
>have introduced
>to the company's IS environment four new tools that I
>evaluated by tinkering
>with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are
>Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and
>Cygwin. The funny
>thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are
>going to be
>part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh.
>
>Simon
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM
>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
>>
>>
>>Hi all,
>> I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list.
>> Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate
>>everybody to adopt my
>>recomendations.
>>My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So,
>>order is order.
>> I think his concern about this task is to improve
>>productivi

Re: AW: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers

2003-01-21 Thread Kenny Smith

Hi s.frank,

I think your first paragraph and second make different points. I 
completely disagree that choice of IDE is just an aesthetic choice. Your 
second point about the Perforce-Integration is talking about specific 
functionality. If your project requires specific functionality, then the 
choices of IDEs are limited. However, people think differently. Take 
NetBeans and Eclipse. They do the same job, but they do it in VASTLY 
different ways. Why? Because different people have different ideas. One 
person will be far more productive using Eclipse and a different person 
will be more productive with NetBeans.

Seriously... who _cares_ if it's easier for an administrator to setup a 
new box. That is a one time event and completely gets lost in the amount 
of time a developer will spend using the machine. In addition, IDEs are 
pretty darn easy to install. My box at work came without one, I chose my 
favorite and installed that one.

It's a myth that using one IDE improves team performance.

Kenny Smith
JournalScape.com

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think there exist many and more fruitful ways to express your
individuality than using IDE A rather than that ide B.  

If the IDE is not important, why not standardize one: Makes it easier for
administrators to setup new boxes, allows to pass the box to another
member of your team, allows to use the same plug-ins and so on: Just think
about Integration with version-Control: Cowboy-Coder A uses Eclipse which
has a bug with Perforce-Integration, Cowboy-Coder B insists on using
IntelliJ, which has no Perforce-Integration at all: And the Newbie-Coder
comes in and is totally confused as there exist three ways of setting up
your enviroment. No Standards at all are ok if you have a team-size of
one... 
 
--- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --- 
Datum: 21.01.2003 16:20
Von: "James Childers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
An: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Betreff: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
 

I second this. Different people work in different ways; standardizing an


IDE for every developer ignores this rather key fact of human nature. If
my company were to standardize on an IDE that some people don't like,
they're just going to be frustrated and bitter, decreasing productivity.


*shudder* Thank Baal they don't do that at my company. Everybody can use


whatever development tools they want, so long as the code compiles and
passes the unit tests. 

I use Eclipse and Vim, primarily. If management tried to take away Vim I


would have to tell them to... well... You get the idea.


Speaking of which, I've been tinkering with IDEA lately, and it looks


quite promising. Tight, and as fast as Eclipse. Plus I like the fact that
I can do everything within it without using the keyboard. And it can do
regexp search and replaces, which is one of the main things keeping me
married to Vim right now.


-= J



-Original Message-
From: Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:16 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers

On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Daniel H. F. e Silva wrote:



My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, 

order is order.


I think his concern about this task is to improve 

productivity. So, what is more productive?

If he wants productivity then let the developers use the 
tools they are
familiar with.


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RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-21 Thread ROSSEL Olivier

Then what's the way Idea works?
It is supposed to be fast.
Which widget family does it use?

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RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-21 Thread David Graham

That's not an opinion it's a fact.  Netbeans is based on Swing which is slow 
as molasses.  Check your OS's memory monitor to see the difference (about 30 
MB).  Click on a Netbeans menu and you can feel the unresponsiveness.

David






From: "Haseltine, Celeste" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:39:19 -0600

Daniel,

Eclipse is much faster than Netbeans, in my opinion, and is not as much of 
a
memory hog as Netbeans is.  If you select the right plug-ins, Eclipse is an
excellent IDE for all J2EE development EXCEPT JSP pages.  We use Eclipse
here for everything (EJB, Java Beans, servlets) BUT JSP development, and 
use
Macromedia Dreamweaver MX for the JSP development.  Dreamweaver MX has the
ability to "pull in" external tag libraries into the IDE, and will enable
code completion for those tag libraries inside of it's IDE.  So when I
incorporated the Struts logic, HTML, and bean tag libraries into
Dreamweaver, the code completion for those tags is enabled for our JSP
developers.  HTML layout/design is also much simpler in Dreamweaver, as 
long
as you stay away from the wizards that are included in Dreamweaver (adds 
too
much extraneous code into the HTML).

Hopefully, the HTML and JSP development features of Eclipse will be 
improved
soon.

Celeste

-Original Message-
From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 7:35 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE


Hi all,
 I know that it is very possible that this subject was already discussed
here, but i couldn't
search on archives (why is this resource disabled?).
 I'm beginning to design a software development process specification as a
job task. It will
include, for instance, a list of all tools, software, frameworks, etc,
necessary to develop
Web-based solutions in J2EE platform.
 And after doing a lot of research, i've found that open-source world has
two leading IDEs:
Netbeans and Eclipse.
 I'd like to hear about experiences with both of them. In my preliminary
tests i guess it was
difficult to work with Eclipse with focus on Web development. For instance,
it doesn't have a cool
JSP editor like Netbeans. I've tried an Eclipse plugin, but its features 
are
inferior than
Netbeans offered features.
 But i liked Eclipse's plugins feature. And it has a better aproach to
manage code quality than
Netbeans.
 So, opinions?

Best regards,
 Daniel.

PS: Sorry for possible language mistakes. English is not my native 
language.

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RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers

2003-01-21 Thread James Childers

This isn't about "expressing your individuality", it's about doing what makes you -- 
the coder -- more productive. If it's your job to write code, and you feel more 
comfortable using your favorite tool, then by all means use it. 

As far as administrative costs are concerned: Coders are smart enough to troubleshoot 
their own boxes, and if they're not then they damn well should be. 

Newbies? I challenge the notion that forcing new toolsets on them is productive in the 
long run. It is completely within the realm of possibility that they will have a 
shorter ramp-up time if they are able to use tools they are already familiar with to 
integrate with existing standards.

In short: I have never encountered a development environment where it would be better 
to standardize upon a single, monolithic work environment for all developers. Some 
people like Emacs, some like Eclipse, some like directly editing bytecode with a hex 
editor. Whatever. So long as the project gets done on time, on budget, and meets the 
requirements *it doesn't matter*. 

-= J 

PS: I am currently working on a team of 12 developers who each use their own toolset. 
We are ahead of schedule and under budget. 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:30 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: AW: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
> 
> 
> I think there exist many and more fruitful ways to express your
> individuality than using IDE A rather than that ide B.  
> 
> If the IDE is not important, why not standardize one: Makes 
> it easier for
> administrators to setup new boxes, allows to pass the box to another
> member of your team, allows to use the same plug-ins and so 
> on: Just think
> about Integration with version-Control: Cowboy-Coder A uses 
> Eclipse which
> has a bug with Perforce-Integration, Cowboy-Coder B insists on using
> IntelliJ, which has no Perforce-Integration at all: And the 
> Newbie-Coder
> comes in and is totally confused as there exist three ways of 
> setting up
> your enviroment. No Standards at all are ok if you have a team-size of
> one... 
>  
> --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --- 
> Datum: 21.01.2003 16:20
> Von: "James Childers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> An: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Betreff: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
>  
> > 
> > I second this. Different people work in different ways; 
> standardizing an
> IDE for every developer ignores this rather key fact of human 
> nature. If
> my company were to standardize on an IDE that some people don't like,
> they're just going to be frustrated and bitter, decreasing 
> productivity.
> > 
> > *shudder* Thank Baal they don't do that at my company. 
> Everybody can use
> whatever development tools they want, so long as the code compiles and
> passes the unit tests. 
> > 
> > I use Eclipse and Vim, primarily. If management tried to 
> take away Vim I
> would have to tell them to... well... You get the idea.
> > 
> > Speaking of which, I've been tinkering with IDEA lately, 
> and it looks
> quite promising. Tight, and as fast as Eclipse. Plus I like 
> the fact that
> I can do everything within it without using the keyboard. And 
> it can do
> regexp search and replaces, which is one of the main things keeping me
> married to Vim right now.
> > 
> > -= J
> > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:16 AM
> > > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > > Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
> > > 
> > > On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Daniel H. F. e Silva wrote:
> > > 
> > > > My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, 
> > > order is order.
> > > >  I think his concern about this task is to improve 
> > > productivity. So, what is more productive?
> > > 
> > > If he wants productivity then let the developers use the 
> > > tools they are
> > > familiar with.
> > > 
> > 

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RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Jerry Jalenak

The beauty of open-source: if there is a problem with the Struts code, open
up the source, fix it, and submit the patch.  Everyone benefits.


Jerry

> -Original Message-
> From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:44 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
> 
> 
> Typically management worry about not having someone to blame 
> if there is a problem. My own manager was asking who we would 
> have recourse against (is this a polite way of saying "Sue 
> them into the ground"?) if there was a problem with the 
> Struts code. I told him that there was the ASF, but that 
> there is an explicit no warranty clause in the Apache 
> licence. He wasn't keen to hear that. Money is usually a very 
> small factor in the issue.
> 
> Simon
> 
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Vinh Tran [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:43 AM
> >To: Struts Users Mailing List
> >Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] 
> Eclipse IDE)
> >
> >
> >What about management?  I'm sure they liked the idea of 
> saving alot of
> >money.  But how did they respond to open source solutions?
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Pani, Gourav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:28 AM
> >To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> >Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] 
> Eclipse IDE)
> >
> >
> >most of the process took about 6 months, which isn't bad at all in my
> >opinion.  as far as opposition is concered, we got some from the
> >chronologically challenged members of the team but alas, they were
> >outnumbered.  my only wish is that jEdit would improve its vi 
> >plugin.  then
> >the circle would really be complete.
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Vinh Tran [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:31 AM
> >To: Struts Users Mailing List
> >Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] 
> Eclipse IDE)
> >
> >
> >Wow...that is quite a transition.  I'm curious to know if 
> >these changes were
> >met with alot of opposition?  How long did it take?
> >
> >Vinh
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Pani, Gourav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:51 AM
> >To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> >Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] 
> Eclipse IDE)
> >
> >
> >Suddenly my life doesn't look so bad.  :)
> >
> >When I first started working for my company we were using Websphere
> >Application Server, Websphere Application Developer, 
> Oracle/DB2 on Unix
> >servers.
> >Now we use Struts, Apache, Resin, jEdit, 
> >SAPDB/POSTGRESQL/MySQL on Red Hat
> >Linux.
> >
> >Not bad.
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:45 AM
> >To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] 
> Eclipse IDE)
> >
> >
> >I wear jeans. (Although I do buy them from the company at a 
> >very reasonable
> >discount)
> >
> >>-Original Message-----
> >>From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:40 AM
> >>To: Struts Users Mailing List
> >>Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] 
> Eclipse IDE)
> >>
> >>
> >>So, do you have to pay for your own uniforms, or does the
> >>company supply
> >>them?
> >>
> >>
> >>-Original Message-
> >>From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >>Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 22:31
> >>To: Struts Users Mailing List
> >>Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
> >>
> >>
> >>Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will
> >>be obvious to
> >>experienced IS developers) also have the belief that 
> >standardisation is
> >>good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th
> >>degree and
> >>they will all be locked down so that you can't change
> >>anything. You can't
> >>even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined,
> >>you'd better like
> >&g

RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-21 Thread Haseltine, Celeste

Daniel, 

Eclipse is much faster than Netbeans, in my opinion, and is not as much of a
memory hog as Netbeans is.  If you select the right plug-ins, Eclipse is an
excellent IDE for all J2EE development EXCEPT JSP pages.  We use Eclipse
here for everything (EJB, Java Beans, servlets) BUT JSP development, and use
Macromedia Dreamweaver MX for the JSP development.  Dreamweaver MX has the
ability to "pull in" external tag libraries into the IDE, and will enable
code completion for those tag libraries inside of it's IDE.  So when I
incorporated the Struts logic, HTML, and bean tag libraries into
Dreamweaver, the code completion for those tags is enabled for our JSP
developers.  HTML layout/design is also much simpler in Dreamweaver, as long
as you stay away from the wizards that are included in Dreamweaver (adds too
much extraneous code into the HTML).

Hopefully, the HTML and JSP development features of Eclipse will be improved
soon.

Celeste

-Original Message-
From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 7:35 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE


Hi all,
 I know that it is very possible that this subject was already discussed
here, but i couldn't
search on archives (why is this resource disabled?).
 I'm beginning to design a software development process specification as a
job task. It will
include, for instance, a list of all tools, software, frameworks, etc,
necessary to develop
Web-based solutions in J2EE platform.
 And after doing a lot of research, i've found that open-source world has
two leading IDEs:
Netbeans and Eclipse.
 I'd like to hear about experiences with both of them. In my preliminary
tests i guess it was
difficult to work with Eclipse with focus on Web development. For instance,
it doesn't have a cool
JSP editor like Netbeans. I've tried an Eclipse plugin, but its features are
inferior than
Netbeans offered features.
 But i liked Eclipse's plugins feature. And it has a better aproach to
manage code quality than
Netbeans.
 So, opinions?

Best regards,
 Daniel.

PS: Sorry for possible language mistakes. English is not my native language.

__
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RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Chappell, Simon P

Typically management worry about not having someone to blame if there is a problem. My 
own manager was asking who we would have recourse against (is this a polite way of 
saying "Sue them into the ground"?) if there was a problem with the Struts code. I 
told him that there was the ASF, but that there is an explicit no warranty clause in 
the Apache licence. He wasn't keen to hear that. Money is usually a very small factor 
in the issue.

Simon

>-Original Message-
>From: Vinh Tran [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:43 AM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>What about management?  I'm sure they liked the idea of saving alot of
>money.  But how did they respond to open source solutions?
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Pani, Gourav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:28 AM
>To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
>Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>most of the process took about 6 months, which isn't bad at all in my
>opinion.  as far as opposition is concered, we got some from the
>chronologically challenged members of the team but alas, they were
>outnumbered.  my only wish is that jEdit would improve its vi 
>plugin.  then
>the circle would really be complete.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Vinh Tran [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:31 AM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>Wow...that is quite a transition.  I'm curious to know if 
>these changes were
>met with alot of opposition?  How long did it take?
>
>Vinh
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Pani, Gourav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:51 AM
>To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
>Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>Suddenly my life doesn't look so bad.  :)
>
>When I first started working for my company we were using Websphere
>Application Server, Websphere Application Developer, Oracle/DB2 on Unix
>servers.
>Now we use Struts, Apache, Resin, jEdit, 
>SAPDB/POSTGRESQL/MySQL on Red Hat
>Linux.
>
>Not bad.
>
>-----Original Message-
>From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:45 AM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>I wear jeans. (Although I do buy them from the company at a 
>very reasonable
>discount)
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:40 AM
>>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>>Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>>
>>
>>So, do you have to pay for your own uniforms, or does the
>>company supply
>>them?
>>
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 22:31
>>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>>Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>>
>>
>>Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will
>>be obvious to
>>experienced IS developers) also have the belief that 
>standardisation is
>>good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th
>>degree and
>>they will all be locked down so that you can't change
>>anything. You can't
>>even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined,
>>you'd better like
>>it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of
>>productivity.
>>
>>Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share?
>>
>>I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of
>>my tinkering
>>on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the
>>company, but you
>>wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I
>>have introduced
>>to the company's IS environment four new tools that I
>>evaluated by tinkering
>>with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these 
>tools are
>>Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and
>>Cygwin. The funny
>>thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are
>>going to be
>>part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh.
>>
>>Simon
>>
>>>-Original Message-
>>>From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PR

RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers

2003-01-21 Thread Chappell, Simon P

The IDE is important to the developer, but not to the team. Therefore the developer 
should pick their own IDE.

The build system is important to the team, so the team should pick the build system.

The Source Code Management system is important to the company, so let the company pick 
the SCM.

I have no objection to standards that help a given situation, but standards don't help 
when they are used like duct tape to bind your hands.

I actually prefer to use text editors instead of IDE's, but if the developer in the 
next cube wants to use an IDE, then that is fine. As long as they produce good code 
that meets the project need and passes it's unit tests, what do I care how it was 
brought into being.

Simon

>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:30 AM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: AW: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
>
>
>I think there exist many and more fruitful ways to express your
>individuality than using IDE A rather than that ide B.  
>
>If the IDE is not important, why not standardize one: Makes it 
>easier for
>administrators to setup new boxes, allows to pass the box to another
>member of your team, allows to use the same plug-ins and so 
>on: Just think
>about Integration with version-Control: Cowboy-Coder A uses 
>Eclipse which
>has a bug with Perforce-Integration, Cowboy-Coder B insists on using
>IntelliJ, which has no Perforce-Integration at all: And the 
>Newbie-Coder
>comes in and is totally confused as there exist three ways of 
>setting up
>your enviroment. No Standards at all are ok if you have a team-size of
>one... 
> 
>--- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --- 
>Datum: 21.01.2003 16:20
>Von: "James Childers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>An: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Betreff: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
> 
>> 
>> I second this. Different people work in different ways; 
>standardizing an
>IDE for every developer ignores this rather key fact of human 
>nature. If
>my company were to standardize on an IDE that some people don't like,
>they're just going to be frustrated and bitter, decreasing 
>productivity.
>> 
>> *shudder* Thank Baal they don't do that at my company. 
>Everybody can use
>whatever development tools they want, so long as the code compiles and
>passes the unit tests. 
>> 
>> I use Eclipse and Vim, primarily. If management tried to 
>take away Vim I
>would have to tell them to... well... You get the idea.
>> 
>> Speaking of which, I've been tinkering with IDEA lately, and it looks
>quite promising. Tight, and as fast as Eclipse. Plus I like 
>the fact that
>I can do everything within it without using the keyboard. And it can do
>regexp search and replaces, which is one of the main things keeping me
>married to Vim right now.
>> 
>> -= J
>> 
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:16 AM
>> > To: Struts Users Mailing List
>> > Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
>> > 
>> > On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Daniel H. F. e Silva wrote:
>> > 
>> > > My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, 
>> > order is order.
>> > >  I think his concern about this task is to improve 
>> > productivity. So, what is more productive?
>> > 
>> > If he wants productivity then let the developers use the 
>> > tools they are
>> > familiar with.
>> > 
>> 
>> --
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:  
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>> 
>>
> 
>
>
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RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Vinh Tran

What about management?  I'm sure they liked the idea of saving alot of
money.  But how did they respond to open source solutions?

-Original Message-
From: Pani, Gourav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:28 AM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)


most of the process took about 6 months, which isn't bad at all in my
opinion.  as far as opposition is concered, we got some from the
chronologically challenged members of the team but alas, they were
outnumbered.  my only wish is that jEdit would improve its vi plugin.  then
the circle would really be complete.

-Original Message-
From: Vinh Tran [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:31 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)


Wow...that is quite a transition.  I'm curious to know if these changes were
met with alot of opposition?  How long did it take?

Vinh

-Original Message-
From: Pani, Gourav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:51 AM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)


Suddenly my life doesn't look so bad.  :)

When I first started working for my company we were using Websphere
Application Server, Websphere Application Developer, Oracle/DB2 on Unix
servers.
Now we use Struts, Apache, Resin, jEdit, SAPDB/POSTGRESQL/MySQL on Red Hat
Linux.

Not bad.

-Original Message-
From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:45 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)


I wear jeans. (Although I do buy them from the company at a very reasonable
discount)

>-Original Message-
>From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:40 AM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>So, do you have to pay for your own uniforms, or does the
>company supply
>them?
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 22:31
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will
>be obvious to
>experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is
>good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th
>degree and
>they will all be locked down so that you can't change
>anything. You can't
>even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined,
>you'd better like
>it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of
>productivity.
>
>Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share?
>
>I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of
>my tinkering
>on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the
>company, but you
>wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I
>have introduced
>to the company's IS environment four new tools that I
>evaluated by tinkering
>with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are
>Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and
>Cygwin. The funny
>thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are
>going to be
>part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh.
>
>Simon
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM
>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
>>
>>
>>Hi all,
>> I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list.
>> Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate
>>everybody to adopt my
>>recomendations.
>>My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So,
>>order is order.
>> I think his concern about this task is to improve
>>productivity. So, what is more productive?
>> Following our discussion, does someone have experience
>>writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is
>>this kind of task?
>>
>>Best regards,
>> Daniel.
>>
>>
>>
>>__
>>Do you Yahoo!?
>>Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
>>http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>>
>>--
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>><mailto:struts-user->[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>For
>>additional commands,
>>e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>

AW: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers

2003-01-21 Thread s . frank

I think there exist many and more fruitful ways to express your
individuality than using IDE A rather than that ide B.

If the IDE is not important, why not standardize one: Makes it easier for
administrators to setup new boxes, allows to pass the box to another
member of your team, allows to use the same plug-ins and so on: Just think
about Integration with version-Control: Cowboy-Coder A uses Eclipse which
has a bug with Perforce-Integration, Cowboy-Coder B insists on using
IntelliJ, which has no Perforce-Integration at all: And the Newbie-Coder
comes in and is totally confused as there exist three ways of setting up
your enviroment. No Standards at all are ok if you have a team-size of
one...

--- Ursprüngliche Nachricht ---
Datum: 21.01.2003 16:20
Von: "James Childers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
An: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Betreff: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers

>
> I second this. Different people work in different ways; standardizing an
IDE for every developer ignores this rather key fact of human nature. If
my company were to standardize on an IDE that some people don't like,
they're just going to be frustrated and bitter, decreasing productivity.
>
> *shudder* Thank Baal they don't do that at my company. Everybody can use
whatever development tools they want, so long as the code compiles and
passes the unit tests.
>
> I use Eclipse and Vim, primarily. If management tried to take away Vim I
would have to tell them to... well... You get the idea.
>
> Speaking of which, I've been tinkering with IDEA lately, and it looks
quite promising. Tight, and as fast as Eclipse. Plus I like the fact that
I can do everything within it without using the keyboard. And it can do
regexp search and replaces, which is one of the main things keeping me
married to Vim right now.
>
> -= J
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:16 AM
> > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
> >
> > On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Daniel H. F. e Silva wrote:
> >
> > > My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So,
> > order is order.
> > >  I think his concern about this task is to improve
> > productivity. So, what is more productive?
> >
> > If he wants productivity then let the developers use the
> > tools they are
> > familiar with.
> >
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
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>
>



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RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Pani, Gourav

most of the process took about 6 months, which isn't bad at all in my
opinion.  as far as opposition is concered, we got some from the
chronologically challenged members of the team but alas, they were
outnumbered.  my only wish is that jEdit would improve its vi plugin.  then
the circle would really be complete.

-Original Message-
From: Vinh Tran [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:31 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)


Wow...that is quite a transition.  I'm curious to know if these changes were
met with alot of opposition?  How long did it take?

Vinh

-Original Message-
From: Pani, Gourav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:51 AM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)


Suddenly my life doesn't look so bad.  :)

When I first started working for my company we were using Websphere
Application Server, Websphere Application Developer, Oracle/DB2 on Unix
servers.
Now we use Struts, Apache, Resin, jEdit, SAPDB/POSTGRESQL/MySQL on Red Hat
Linux.

Not bad.

-Original Message-
From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:45 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)


I wear jeans. (Although I do buy them from the company at a very reasonable
discount)

>-Original Message-
>From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:40 AM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>So, do you have to pay for your own uniforms, or does the
>company supply
>them?
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 22:31
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will
>be obvious to
>experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is
>good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th
>degree and
>they will all be locked down so that you can't change
>anything. You can't
>even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined,
>you'd better like
>it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of
>productivity.
>
>Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share?
>
>I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of
>my tinkering
>on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the
>company, but you
>wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I
>have introduced
>to the company's IS environment four new tools that I
>evaluated by tinkering
>with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are
>Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and
>Cygwin. The funny
>thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are
>going to be
>part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh.
>
>Simon
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM
>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
>>
>>
>>Hi all,
>> I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list.
>> Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate
>>everybody to adopt my
>>recomendations.
>>My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So,
>>order is order.
>> I think his concern about this task is to improve
>>productivity. So, what is more productive?
>> Following our discussion, does someone have experience
>>writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is
>>this kind of task?
>>
>>Best regards,
>> Daniel.
>>
>>
>>
>>__
>>Do you Yahoo!?
>>Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
>>http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>>
>>--
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>><mailto:struts-user->[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>For
>>additional commands,
>>e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>>
>
>--
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>For additional commands, e-mail:
><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
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RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Vinh Tran

Wow...that is quite a transition.  I'm curious to know if these changes were
met with alot of opposition?  How long did it take?

Vinh

-Original Message-
From: Pani, Gourav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:51 AM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)


Suddenly my life doesn't look so bad.  :)

When I first started working for my company we were using Websphere
Application Server, Websphere Application Developer, Oracle/DB2 on Unix
servers.
Now we use Struts, Apache, Resin, jEdit, SAPDB/POSTGRESQL/MySQL on Red Hat
Linux.

Not bad.

-Original Message-
From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:45 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)


I wear jeans. (Although I do buy them from the company at a very reasonable
discount)

>-Original Message-
>From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:40 AM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>So, do you have to pay for your own uniforms, or does the
>company supply
>them?
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 22:31
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will
>be obvious to
>experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is
>good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th
>degree and
>they will all be locked down so that you can't change
>anything. You can't
>even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined,
>you'd better like
>it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of
>productivity.
>
>Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share?
>
>I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of
>my tinkering
>on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the
>company, but you
>wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I
>have introduced
>to the company's IS environment four new tools that I
>evaluated by tinkering
>with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are
>Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and
>Cygwin. The funny
>thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are
>going to be
>part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh.
>
>Simon
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM
>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
>>
>>
>>Hi all,
>> I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list.
>> Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate
>>everybody to adopt my
>>recomendations.
>>My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So,
>>order is order.
>> I think his concern about this task is to improve
>>productivity. So, what is more productive?
>> Following our discussion, does someone have experience
>>writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is
>>this kind of task?
>>
>>Best regards,
>> Daniel.
>>
>>
>>
>>__
>>Do you Yahoo!?
>>Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
>>http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>>
>>--
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>><mailto:struts-user->[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>For
>>additional commands,
>>e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>>
>
>--
>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>For additional commands, e-mail:
><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
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RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Chappell, Simon P



>-Original Message-
>From: Durham David Cntr 805CSS/SCBE [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:19 AM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>That's why you could never work in my office.  It's Winamp or the road.

Your loss! :-P

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RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers

2003-01-21 Thread James Childers

I second this. Different people work in different ways; standardizing an IDE for every 
developer ignores this rather key fact of human nature. If my company were to 
standardize on an IDE that some people don't like, they're just going to be frustrated 
and bitter, decreasing productivity.

*shudder* Thank Baal they don't do that at my company. Everybody can use whatever 
development tools they want, so long as the code compiles and passes the unit tests. 

I use Eclipse and Vim, primarily. If management tried to take away Vim I would have to 
tell them to... well... You get the idea.

Speaking of which, I've been tinkering with IDEA lately, and it looks quite promising. 
Tight, and as fast as Eclipse. Plus I like the fact that I can do everything within it 
without using the keyboard. And it can do regexp search and replaces, which is one of 
the main things keeping me married to Vim right now.

-= J

> -Original Message-
> From: Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:16 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
> 
> On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Daniel H. F. e Silva wrote:
> 
> > My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, 
> order is order.
> >  I think his concern about this task is to improve 
> productivity. So, what is more productive?
> 
> If he wants productivity then let the developers use the 
> tools they are
> familiar with.
> 

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RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Durham David Cntr 805CSS/SCBE

That's why you could never work in my office.  It's Winamp or the road.

> -Original Message-
> From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:12 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
> 
> 
> I agree, that working in the dark corners churning out 
> working code is the best way to silence management and that's 
> what I try to do. I'm just dispairing about the fact that 
> management think that their actions are necessary.
> 
> I'm a known corporate rebel anyway and I install whatever I 
> want on my machine. Sometimes I get in trouble for it, 
> especially Struts, but then after management has it's 
> screaming fit, they come around to seeing that I was right. 
> Other than being directed by my manager to send out apology 
> emails now and then, it's almost fun.
> 
> BTW: Winamp sucks, try Music Match Jukebox if you use a 
> Windows box, otherwise iTunes rocks! (I love my Mac! :-)
> 
> Simon 
> 
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Pani, Gourav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:04 AM
> >To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> >Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] 
> Eclipse IDE)
> >
> >
> >Oh and I forgot to add Ant, Log4J, Cactus and Scarab.  Life is 
> >grand when
> >most people don't have a clue what the hell you are doing.
> >
> >-Original Message-----
> >From: Nicolas De Loof [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:00 AM
> >To: Struts Users Mailing List
> >Subject: Re: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] 
> Eclipse IDE)
> >
> >
> >Waaa !
> >
> >It took us 2 years to come to struts + log4j. I'm trying to 
> >promote tomcat
> >and eclipse as test/development platform... for 2004 ?
> >
> >Perhaps Linux and PostgreSQL in 2020.
> >
> >Nico.
> >
> >> Suddenly my life doesn't look so bad.  :)
> >>
> >> When I first started working for my company we were using Websphere
> >> Application Server, Websphere Application Developer, 
> >Oracle/DB2 on Unix
> >> servers.
> >> Now we use Struts, Apache, Resin, jEdit, 
> >SAPDB/POSTGRESQL/MySQL on Red Hat
> >> Linux.
> >>
> >> Not bad.
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:45 AM
> >> To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] 
> >Eclipse IDE)
> >>
> >>
> >> I wear jeans. (Although I do buy them from the company at a very
> >reasonable
> >> discount)
> >>
> >> >-Original Message-
> >> >From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >> >Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:40 AM
> >> >To: Struts Users Mailing List
> >> >Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] 
> >Eclipse IDE)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >So, do you have to pay for your own uniforms, or does the
> >> >company supply
> >> >them?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >-Original Message-
> >> >From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >> >Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 22:31
> >> >To: Struts Users Mailing List
> >> >Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will
> >> >be obvious to
> >> >experienced IS developers) also have the belief that 
> >standardisation is
> >> >good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th
> >> >degree and
> >> >they will all be locked down so that you can't change
> >> >anything. You can't
> >> >even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined,
> >> >you'd better like
> >> >it because you can't install anything else. All in the 
> >sacred name of
> >> >productivity.
> >> >
> >> >Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share?
> >> >
> >> >I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of
> >> >my tinkering
> >> >on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the
> >> &

RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers

2003-01-21 Thread Chappell, Simon P


>-Original Message-
>From: Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:16 AM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
>
>
>
>
>On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Daniel H. F. e Silva wrote:
>
>> My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, 
>order is order.
>>  I think his concern about this task is to improve 
>productivity. So, what is more productive?
>
>If he wants productivity then let the developers use the tools they are
>familiar with.

You are so right, but also so not going to get that. Sorry. See the "Standardised 
Environments" thread for this very point.

Simon

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Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers

2003-01-21 Thread Alex



On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Daniel H. F. e Silva wrote:

> My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, order is order.
>  I think his concern about this task is to improve productivity. So, what is more 
>productive?

If he wants productivity then let the developers use the tools they are
familiar with.


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RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Chappell, Simon P

I agree, that working in the dark corners churning out working code is the best way to 
silence management and that's what I try to do. I'm just dispairing about the fact 
that management think that their actions are necessary.

I'm a known corporate rebel anyway and I install whatever I want on my machine. 
Sometimes I get in trouble for it, especially Struts, but then after management has 
it's screaming fit, they come around to seeing that I was right. Other than being 
directed by my manager to send out apology emails now and then, it's almost fun.

BTW: Winamp sucks, try Music Match Jukebox if you use a Windows box, otherwise iTunes 
rocks! (I love my Mac! :-)

Simon 

>-Original Message-
>From: Pani, Gourav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:04 AM
>To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
>Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>Oh and I forgot to add Ant, Log4J, Cactus and Scarab.  Life is 
>grand when
>most people don't have a clue what the hell you are doing.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Nicolas De Loof [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:00 AM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>Waaa !
>
>It took us 2 years to come to struts + log4j. I'm trying to 
>promote tomcat
>and eclipse as test/development platform... for 2004 ?
>
>Perhaps Linux and PostgreSQL in 2020.
>
>Nico.
>
>> Suddenly my life doesn't look so bad.  :)
>>
>> When I first started working for my company we were using Websphere
>> Application Server, Websphere Application Developer, 
>Oracle/DB2 on Unix
>> servers.
>> Now we use Struts, Apache, Resin, jEdit, 
>SAPDB/POSTGRESQL/MySQL on Red Hat
>> Linux.
>>
>> Not bad.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:45 AM
>> To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] 
>Eclipse IDE)
>>
>>
>> I wear jeans. (Although I do buy them from the company at a very
>reasonable
>> discount)
>>
>> >-Original Message-
>> >From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> >Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:40 AM
>> >To: Struts Users Mailing List
>> >Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] 
>Eclipse IDE)
>> >
>> >
>> >So, do you have to pay for your own uniforms, or does the
>> >company supply
>> >them?
>> >
>> >
>> >-Original Message-
>> >From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> >Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 22:31
>> >To: Struts Users Mailing List
>> >Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>> >
>> >
>> >Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will
>> >be obvious to
>> >experienced IS developers) also have the belief that 
>standardisation is
>> >good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th
>> >degree and
>> >they will all be locked down so that you can't change
>> >anything. You can't
>> >even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined,
>> >you'd better like
>> >it because you can't install anything else. All in the 
>sacred name of
>> >productivity.
>> >
>> >Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share?
>> >
>> >I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of
>> >my tinkering
>> >on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the
>> >company, but you
>> >wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I
>> >have introduced
>> >to the company's IS environment four new tools that I
>> >evaluated by tinkering
>> >with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, 
>these tools are
>> >Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and
>> >Cygwin. The funny
>> >thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are
>> >going to be
>> >part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh.
>> >
>> >Simon
>> >
>> >>-Original Message-
>> >>From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> >>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM
>> >>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >>Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two

RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Pani, Gourav

Oh and I forgot to add Ant, Log4J, Cactus and Scarab.  Life is grand when
most people don't have a clue what the hell you are doing.

-Original Message-
From: Nicolas De Loof [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:00 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)


Waaa !

It took us 2 years to come to struts + log4j. I'm trying to promote tomcat
and eclipse as test/development platform... for 2004 ?

Perhaps Linux and PostgreSQL in 2020.

Nico.

> Suddenly my life doesn't look so bad.  :)
>
> When I first started working for my company we were using Websphere
> Application Server, Websphere Application Developer, Oracle/DB2 on Unix
> servers.
> Now we use Struts, Apache, Resin, jEdit, SAPDB/POSTGRESQL/MySQL on Red Hat
> Linux.
>
> Not bad.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:45 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
> I wear jeans. (Although I do buy them from the company at a very
reasonable
> discount)
>
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:40 AM
> >To: Struts Users Mailing List
> >Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
> >
> >
> >So, do you have to pay for your own uniforms, or does the
> >company supply
> >them?
> >
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 22:31
> >To: Struts Users Mailing List
> >Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
> >
> >
> >Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will
> >be obvious to
> >experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is
> >good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th
> >degree and
> >they will all be locked down so that you can't change
> >anything. You can't
> >even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined,
> >you'd better like
> >it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of
> >productivity.
> >
> >Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share?
> >
> >I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of
> >my tinkering
> >on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the
> >company, but you
> >wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I
> >have introduced
> >to the company's IS environment four new tools that I
> >evaluated by tinkering
> >with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are
> >Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and
> >Cygwin. The funny
> >thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are
> >going to be
> >part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh.
> >
> >Simon
> >
> >>-Original Message-
> >>From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM
> >>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
> >>
> >>
> >>Hi all,
> >> I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list.
> >> Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate
> >>everybody to adopt my
> >>recomendations.
> >>My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So,
> >>order is order.
> >> I think his concern about this task is to improve
> >>productivity. So, what is more productive?
> >> Following our discussion, does someone have experience
> >>writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is
> >>this kind of task?
> >>
> >>Best regards,
> >> Daniel.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>__
> >>Do you Yahoo!?
> >>Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> >>http://mailplus.yahoo.com
> >>
> >>--
> >>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> >><mailto:struts-user->[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>For
> >>additional commands,
> >>e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >--
> >To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> ><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >For additional commands, e-mail:
> ><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >
> >--
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> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Nicolas De Loof

Waaa !

It took us 2 years to come to struts + log4j. I'm trying to promote tomcat
and eclipse as test/development platform... for 2004 ?

Perhaps Linux and PostgreSQL in 2020.

Nico.

> Suddenly my life doesn't look so bad.  :)
>
> When I first started working for my company we were using Websphere
> Application Server, Websphere Application Developer, Oracle/DB2 on Unix
> servers.
> Now we use Struts, Apache, Resin, jEdit, SAPDB/POSTGRESQL/MySQL on Red Hat
> Linux.
>
> Not bad.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:45 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
> I wear jeans. (Although I do buy them from the company at a very
reasonable
> discount)
>
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:40 AM
> >To: Struts Users Mailing List
> >Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
> >
> >
> >So, do you have to pay for your own uniforms, or does the
> >company supply
> >them?
> >
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 22:31
> >To: Struts Users Mailing List
> >Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
> >
> >
> >Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will
> >be obvious to
> >experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is
> >good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th
> >degree and
> >they will all be locked down so that you can't change
> >anything. You can't
> >even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined,
> >you'd better like
> >it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of
> >productivity.
> >
> >Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share?
> >
> >I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of
> >my tinkering
> >on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the
> >company, but you
> >wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I
> >have introduced
> >to the company's IS environment four new tools that I
> >evaluated by tinkering
> >with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are
> >Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and
> >Cygwin. The funny
> >thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are
> >going to be
> >part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh.
> >
> >Simon
> >
> >>-Original Message-
> >>From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM
> >>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
> >>
> >>
> >>Hi all,
> >> I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list.
> >> Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate
> >>everybody to adopt my
> >>recomendations.
> >>My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So,
> >>order is order.
> >> I think his concern about this task is to improve
> >>productivity. So, what is more productive?
> >> Following our discussion, does someone have experience
> >>writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is
> >>this kind of task?
> >>
> >>Best regards,
> >> Daniel.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>__
> >>Do you Yahoo!?
> >>Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> >>http://mailplus.yahoo.com
> >>
> >>--
> >>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> >><mailto:struts-user->[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>For
> >>additional commands,
> >>e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >--
> >To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> ><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >For additional commands, e-mail:
> ><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >
> >--
> >To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> --
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RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Durham David Cntr 805CSS/SCBE

Similar things going on where I am at.  It's to be expected when you work for the 
military. :)  (I work with highly insensitive materials, however at night I'm a secret 
agent.  The two aren't related.)

It's mostly a lot of talk though.  "You will use that and you will not use anything 
else."  It never holds up because the bottom line is that the work needs to get done.  

It's such a pain to get commercial software (still waiting on IDEA), the free stuff is 
a no-brainer, go download it.  I'm using netbeans, ant, tomcat, struts, junit, etc, 
even though none of these products have been "blessed", they are all kicking a lot of 
ass.

Standards are important, but not so much that you have to cram them down everyone's 
throats.  Standardized methodologies, i.e., these are our techniques for analysing and 
designing, and we use versioning control and we test our code, are much more valuable 
than forcing developers to use a particular toolset.  At one time their was talk of us 
being told we have to use JDeveloper.  What a nightmare that would have been.

However, I draw the line at what MP3 player people use.  In my office, it's Winamp, or 
no music, no debate.

L8r,

Dave


> -Original Message-
> From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:31 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
> 
> 
> Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will 
> be obvious to experienced IS developers) also have the belief 
> that standardisation is good. We are having our J2EE 
> workstations defined to the n'th degree and they will all be 
> locked down so that you can't change anything. You can't even 
> change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, you'd 
> better like it because you can't install anything else. All 
> in the sacred name of productivity.
> 
> Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share?
> 
> I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any 
> of my tinkering on. I like to think that my tinkering is 
> helpful to the company, but you wouldn't think so from these 
> new policies. This past year, I have introduced to the 
> company's IS environment four new tools that I evaluated by 
> tinkering with in those downtimes between projects. 
> Specifically, these tools are Struts (hey, you know I like 
> Struts! :-), ant, junit and Cygwin. The funny thing, to me, 
> is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are going to be 
> part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh.
> 
> Simon
> 
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
> >
> >
> >Hi all,
> > I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list.
> > Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate 
> >everybody to adopt my
> >recomendations.
> >My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, 
> >order is order.
> > I think his concern about this task is to improve 
> >productivity. So, what is more productive?
> > Following our discussion, does someone have experience 
> >writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is
> >this kind of task?
> >
> >Best regards,
> > Daniel.
> > 
> >
> >
> >__
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> >http://mailplus.yahoo.com
> >
> >--
> >To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
> ><mailto:struts-user->[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >For 
> >additional commands, 
> >e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Kevin . Bedell



Here is a pointer to an intensive management training program that may work
for them:

http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/the_characters/index.html#boss




   
   
   
   
 "Andrew Hill"To: "Struts Users Mailing List" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]   cc: (bcc: Kevin 
Bedell/Systems/USHO/SunLife)
 m>   Subject:  RE: [OT] Standardised 
Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) 
 01/21/2003 09:40 AM   
   
 Please respond to "Struts 
   
 Users Mailing List"   
   
   
   
   
   




So, do you have to pay for your own uniforms, or does the company supply
them?


-Original Message-
From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 22:31
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)


Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will be obvious to
experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is
good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th degree and
they will all be locked down so that you can't change anything. You can't
even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, you'd better like
it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of
productivity.

Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share?

I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of my tinkering
on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the company, but you
wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I have
introduced
to the company's IS environment four new tools that I evaluated by
tinkering
with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are
Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and Cygwin. The funny
thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are going to be
part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh.

Simon

>-Original Message-
>From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
>
>
>Hi all,
> I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list.
> Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate
>everybody to adopt my
>recomendations.
>My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So,
>order is order.
> I think his concern about this task is to improve
>productivity. So, what is more productive?
> Following our discussion, does someone have experience
>writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is
>this kind of task?
>
>Best regards,
> Daniel.
>
>
>
>__
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
>http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
>--
>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
><mailto:struts-user->[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>For
>additional commands,
>e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>

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RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Pani, Gourav

Suddenly my life doesn't look so bad.  :)  

When I first started working for my company we were using Websphere
Application Server, Websphere Application Developer, Oracle/DB2 on Unix
servers.  
Now we use Struts, Apache, Resin, jEdit, SAPDB/POSTGRESQL/MySQL on Red Hat
Linux.  

Not bad.

-Original Message-
From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:45 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)


I wear jeans. (Although I do buy them from the company at a very reasonable
discount)

>-Original Message-
>From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:40 AM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>So, do you have to pay for your own uniforms, or does the 
>company supply
>them?
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 22:31
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will 
>be obvious to
>experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is
>good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th 
>degree and
>they will all be locked down so that you can't change 
>anything. You can't
>even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, 
>you'd better like
>it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of
>productivity.
>
>Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share?
>
>I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of 
>my tinkering
>on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the 
>company, but you
>wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I 
>have introduced
>to the company's IS environment four new tools that I 
>evaluated by tinkering
>with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are
>Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and 
>Cygwin. The funny
>thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are 
>going to be
>part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh.
>
>Simon
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM
>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
>>
>>
>>Hi all,
>> I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list.
>> Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate
>>everybody to adopt my
>>recomendations.
>>My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So,
>>order is order.
>> I think his concern about this task is to improve
>>productivity. So, what is more productive?
>> Following our discussion, does someone have experience
>>writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is
>>this kind of task?
>>
>>Best regards,
>> Daniel.
>>
>>
>>
>>__
>>Do you Yahoo!?
>>Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
>>http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>>
>>--
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>><mailto:struts-user->[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>For
>>additional commands,
>>e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>>
>
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><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Chappell, Simon P

I wear jeans. (Although I do buy them from the company at a very reasonable discount)

>-Original Message-
>From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:40 AM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>So, do you have to pay for your own uniforms, or does the 
>company supply
>them?
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 22:31
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
>
>
>Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will 
>be obvious to
>experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is
>good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th 
>degree and
>they will all be locked down so that you can't change 
>anything. You can't
>even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, 
>you'd better like
>it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of
>productivity.
>
>Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share?
>
>I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of 
>my tinkering
>on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the 
>company, but you
>wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I 
>have introduced
>to the company's IS environment four new tools that I 
>evaluated by tinkering
>with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are
>Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and 
>Cygwin. The funny
>thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are 
>going to be
>part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh.
>
>Simon
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM
>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
>>
>>
>>Hi all,
>> I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list.
>> Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate
>>everybody to adopt my
>>recomendations.
>>My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So,
>>order is order.
>> I think his concern about this task is to improve
>>productivity. So, what is more productive?
>> Following our discussion, does someone have experience
>>writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is
>>this kind of task?
>>
>>Best regards,
>> Daniel.
>>
>>
>>
>>__
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>>Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
>>http://mailplus.yahoo.com
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>>additional commands,
>>e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>>
>
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RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Andrew Hill

So, do you have to pay for your own uniforms, or does the company supply
them?

-Original Message-
From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 22:31
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will be obvious to
experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is
good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th degree and
they will all be locked down so that you can't change anything. You can't
even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, you'd better like
it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of
productivity.

Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share?

I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of my tinkering
on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the company, but you
wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I have introduced
to the company's IS environment four new tools that I evaluated by tinkering
with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are
Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and Cygwin. The funny
thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are going to be
part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh.

Simon

>-Original Message-
>From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
>
>
>Hi all,
> I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list.
> Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate
>everybody to adopt my
>recomendations.
>My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So,
>order is order.
> I think his concern about this task is to improve
>productivity. So, what is more productive?
> Following our discussion, does someone have experience
>writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is
>this kind of task?
>
>Best regards,
> Daniel.
>
>
>
>__
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
>http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
>--
>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
><mailto:struts-user->[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>For
>additional commands,
>e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>

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[OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)

2003-01-21 Thread Chappell, Simon P

Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will be obvious to 
experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is good. We are 
having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th degree and they will all be locked 
down so that you can't change anything. You can't even change your windows 
wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, you'd better like it because you can't install 
anything else. All in the sacred name of productivity.

Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share?

I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of my tinkering on. I like 
to think that my tinkering is helpful to the company, but you wouldn't think so from 
these new policies. This past year, I have introduced to the company's IS environment 
four new tools that I evaluated by tinkering with in those downtimes between projects. 
Specifically, these tools are Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and 
Cygwin. The funny thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are going 
to be part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh.

Simon

>-Original Message-
>From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
>
>
>Hi all,
> I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list.
> Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate 
>everybody to adopt my
>recomendations.
>My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, 
>order is order.
> I think his concern about this task is to improve 
>productivity. So, what is more productive?
> Following our discussion, does someone have experience 
>writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is
>this kind of task?
>
>Best regards,
> Daniel.
> 
>
>
>__
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
>http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
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>To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
><mailto:struts-user->[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>For 
>additional commands, 
>e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>

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[OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers

2003-01-21 Thread Daniel H. F. e Silva

Hi all,
 I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list.
 Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate everybody to adopt my
recomendations.
My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, order is order.
 I think his concern about this task is to improve productivity. So, what is more 
productive?
 Following our discussion, does someone have experience writing Eclipse plugins? How 
difficult is
this kind of task?

Best regards,
 Daniel.
 


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Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-21 Thread unicoletti

Quoting "Daniel H. F. e Silva" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Hi all,
>  I know that it is very possible that this subject was already discussed
> here, but i couldn't
> search on archives (why is this resource disabled?).
>  I'm beginning to design a software development process specification as a
> job task. It will
> include, for instance, a list of all tools, software, frameworks, etc,
> necessary to develop
> Web-based solutions in J2EE platform.
>  And after doing a lot of research, i've found that open-source world has two
> leading IDEs:
> Netbeans and Eclipse.
>  I'd like to hear about experiences with both of them. In my preliminary
> tests i guess it was
> difficult to work with Eclipse with focus on Web development. For instance,
> it doesn't have a cool
> JSP editor like Netbeans.

That's true, even tough refactoring features and plugins for struts code
generation outweight it.
Last week I checked out Intellij Idea and it has great jsp editing support like
struts tags completion, also it looks like it's more lightweight than Eclipse or
Netbeans.

> I've tried an Eclipse plugin, but its features are
> inferior than
> Netbeans offered features.
>  But i liked Eclipse's plugins feature. And it has a better aproach to manage
> code quality than
> Netbeans.
>  So, opinions?
> 

Eclipse is probably the best you can get for free.

> Best regards,
>  Daniel.
> 
> PS: Sorry for possible language mistakes. English is not my native language.
> 
> __
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
> 
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> 
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> 




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Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-20 Thread Peng Tuck Kwok

David Graham wrote:

You're not likely to get many unbiased opinions on this topic.  I will 
tell you that my brief experience with Netbeans has been terrible (even 
on latest versions).  I'm a big fan of Eclipse even though it doesn't 
have the JSP editor yet.  Netbeans also has a gui builder but I don't 
know how good the code it generates is.
The gui builder is passable, although I wouldn't recommend building 
something large with it.


I don't recommend that your report mandate one IDE over another.  
Everyone on the project should be allowed to use what they like and are 
most productive in.  I just found NetBeans very difficult to work with.

David
That's very true, one should evaluate the respective ide's and determine 
if it is suitable to do the job.









From: "Daniel H. F. e Silva" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:35:08 -0800 (PST)

Hi all,
 I know that it is very possible that this subject was already 
discussed here, but i couldn't
search on archives (why is this resource disabled?).
 I'm beginning to design a software development process specification 
as a job task. It will
include, for instance, a list of all tools, software, frameworks, etc, 
necessary to develop
Web-based solutions in J2EE platform.
 And after doing a lot of research, i've found that open-source world 
has two leading IDEs:
Netbeans and Eclipse.
 I'd like to hear about experiences with both of them. In my 
preliminary tests i guess it was
difficult to work with Eclipse with focus on Web development. For 
instance, it doesn't have a cool
JSP editor like Netbeans. I've tried an Eclipse plugin, but its 
features are inferior than
Netbeans offered features.
 But i liked Eclipse's plugins feature. And it has a better aproach to 
manage code quality than
Netbeans.
 So, opinions?

Best regards,
 Daniel.

PS: Sorry for possible language mistakes. English is not my native 
language.

__
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RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-20 Thread David Graham

LOL

Dave







From: "Andrew Hill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:09:48 +0800

Hmm. If your gonna restrict yourself to one editor better pick something
versatile...

Have you tried vi yet?...

...I heard it was better than Emacs

;->

-Original Message-
From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 11:07
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE


You're not likely to get many unbiased opinions on this topic.  I will tell
you that my brief experience with Netbeans has been terrible (even on 
latest
versions).  I'm a big fan of Eclipse even though it doesn't have the JSP
editor yet.  Netbeans also has a gui builder but I don't know how good the
code it generates is.

I don't recommend that your report mandate one IDE over another.  Everyone
on the project should be allowed to use what they like and are most
productive in.  I just found NetBeans very difficult to work with.

David






>From: "Daniel H. F. e Silva" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:35:08 -0800 (PST)
>
>Hi all,
>  I know that it is very possible that this subject was already discussed
>here, but i couldn't
>search on archives (why is this resource disabled?).
>  I'm beginning to design a software development process specification as 
a
>job task. It will
>include, for instance, a list of all tools, software, frameworks, etc,
>necessary to develop
>Web-based solutions in J2EE platform.
>  And after doing a lot of research, i've found that open-source world 
has
>two leading IDEs:
>Netbeans and Eclipse.
>  I'd like to hear about experiences with both of them. In my preliminary
>tests i guess it was
>difficult to work with Eclipse with focus on Web development. For 
instance,
>it doesn't have a cool
>JSP editor like Netbeans. I've tried an Eclipse plugin, but its features
>are inferior than
>Netbeans offered features.
>  But i liked Eclipse's plugins feature. And it has a better aproach to
>manage code quality than
>Netbeans.
>  So, opinions?
>
>Best regards,
>  Daniel.
>
>PS: Sorry for possible language mistakes. English is not my native
>language.
>
>__
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
>http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
>--
>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-20 Thread V. Cekvenich

vim.org I use for XML and JSP editing, for real.
In Eclipse I just add it as a plug in.
Its GUI and all in Windows and X.
.V

Andrew Hill wrote:

Hmm. If your gonna restrict yourself to one editor better pick something
versatile...

Have you tried vi yet?...

...I heard it was better than Emacs

;->

-Original Message-
From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 11:07
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE


You're not likely to get many unbiased opinions on this topic.  I will tell
you that my brief experience with Netbeans has been terrible (even on latest
versions).  I'm a big fan of Eclipse even though it doesn't have the JSP
editor yet.  Netbeans also has a gui builder but I don't know how good the
code it generates is.

I don't recommend that your report mandate one IDE over another.  Everyone
on the project should be allowed to use what they like and are most
productive in.  I just found NetBeans very difficult to work with.

David








From: "Daniel H. F. e Silva" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:35:08 -0800 (PST)

Hi all,
I know that it is very possible that this subject was already discussed
here, but i couldn't
search on archives (why is this resource disabled?).
I'm beginning to design a software development process specification as a
job task. It will
include, for instance, a list of all tools, software, frameworks, etc,
necessary to develop
Web-based solutions in J2EE platform.
And after doing a lot of research, i've found that open-source world has
two leading IDEs:
Netbeans and Eclipse.
I'd like to hear about experiences with both of them. In my preliminary
tests i guess it was
difficult to work with Eclipse with focus on Web development. For instance,
it doesn't have a cool
JSP editor like Netbeans. I've tried an Eclipse plugin, but its features
are inferior than
Netbeans offered features.
But i liked Eclipse's plugins feature. And it has a better aproach to
manage code quality than
Netbeans.
So, opinions?

Best regards,
Daniel.

PS: Sorry for possible language mistakes. English is not my native
language.

__
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RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-20 Thread Andrew Hill

Hmm. If your gonna restrict yourself to one editor better pick something
versatile...

Have you tried vi yet?...

...I heard it was better than Emacs

;->

-Original Message-
From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 11:07
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE


You're not likely to get many unbiased opinions on this topic.  I will tell
you that my brief experience with Netbeans has been terrible (even on latest
versions).  I'm a big fan of Eclipse even though it doesn't have the JSP
editor yet.  Netbeans also has a gui builder but I don't know how good the
code it generates is.

I don't recommend that your report mandate one IDE over another.  Everyone
on the project should be allowed to use what they like and are most
productive in.  I just found NetBeans very difficult to work with.

David






>From: "Daniel H. F. e Silva" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE
>Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:35:08 -0800 (PST)
>
>Hi all,
>  I know that it is very possible that this subject was already discussed
>here, but i couldn't
>search on archives (why is this resource disabled?).
>  I'm beginning to design a software development process specification as a
>job task. It will
>include, for instance, a list of all tools, software, frameworks, etc,
>necessary to develop
>Web-based solutions in J2EE platform.
>  And after doing a lot of research, i've found that open-source world has
>two leading IDEs:
>Netbeans and Eclipse.
>  I'd like to hear about experiences with both of them. In my preliminary
>tests i guess it was
>difficult to work with Eclipse with focus on Web development. For instance,
>it doesn't have a cool
>JSP editor like Netbeans. I've tried an Eclipse plugin, but its features
>are inferior than
>Netbeans offered features.
>  But i liked Eclipse's plugins feature. And it has a better aproach to
>manage code quality than
>Netbeans.
>  So, opinions?
>
>Best regards,
>  Daniel.
>
>PS: Sorry for possible language mistakes. English is not my native
>language.
>
>__
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
>http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
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><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-20 Thread David Graham

You're not likely to get many unbiased opinions on this topic.  I will tell 
you that my brief experience with Netbeans has been terrible (even on latest 
versions).  I'm a big fan of Eclipse even though it doesn't have the JSP 
editor yet.  Netbeans also has a gui builder but I don't know how good the 
code it generates is.

I don't recommend that your report mandate one IDE over another.  Everyone 
on the project should be allowed to use what they like and are most 
productive in.  I just found NetBeans very difficult to work with.

David






From: "Daniel H. F. e Silva" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:35:08 -0800 (PST)

Hi all,
 I know that it is very possible that this subject was already discussed 
here, but i couldn't
search on archives (why is this resource disabled?).
 I'm beginning to design a software development process specification as a 
job task. It will
include, for instance, a list of all tools, software, frameworks, etc, 
necessary to develop
Web-based solutions in J2EE platform.
 And after doing a lot of research, i've found that open-source world has 
two leading IDEs:
Netbeans and Eclipse.
 I'd like to hear about experiences with both of them. In my preliminary 
tests i guess it was
difficult to work with Eclipse with focus on Web development. For instance, 
it doesn't have a cool
JSP editor like Netbeans. I've tried an Eclipse plugin, but its features 
are inferior than
Netbeans offered features.
 But i liked Eclipse's plugins feature. And it has a better aproach to 
manage code quality than
Netbeans.
 So, opinions?

Best regards,
 Daniel.

PS: Sorry for possible language mistakes. English is not my native 
language.

__
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http://mailplus.yahoo.com

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Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-20 Thread V. Cekvenich

I used to use NetBeans and now I switched to Eclipse, because Eclipse is 
 so much faster, smaller, and works great with CVS.
Keep in mind that a tool or a framework might not make a project 
successful by itself.
.V

Daniel H. F. e Silva wrote:
Hi all,
 I know that it is very possible that this subject was already discussed here, but i couldn't
search on archives (why is this resource disabled?).
 I'm beginning to design a software development process specification as a job task. It will
include, for instance, a list of all tools, software, frameworks, etc, necessary to develop
Web-based solutions in J2EE platform.
 And after doing a lot of research, i've found that open-source world has two leading IDEs:
Netbeans and Eclipse.
 I'd like to hear about experiences with both of them. In my preliminary tests i guess it was
difficult to work with Eclipse with focus on Web development. For instance, it doesn't have a cool
JSP editor like Netbeans. I've tried an Eclipse plugin, but its features are inferior than
Netbeans offered features.
 But i liked Eclipse's plugins feature. And it has a better aproach to manage code quality than
Netbeans.
 So, opinions?

Best regards,
 Daniel.

PS: Sorry for possible language mistakes. English is not my native language.

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RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-20 Thread Raible, Matt

You might try searching on http://www.javablogs.com - there's been lots of
debates on this topic lately.

> -Original Message-
> From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 6:35 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE
> 
> 
> Hi all,
>  I know that it is very possible that this subject was 
> already discussed here, but i couldn't
> search on archives (why is this resource disabled?).
>  I'm beginning to design a software development process 
> specification as a job task. It will
> include, for instance, a list of all tools, software, 
> frameworks, etc, necessary to develop
> Web-based solutions in J2EE platform.
>  And after doing a lot of research, i've found that 
> open-source world has two leading IDEs:
> Netbeans and Eclipse.
>  I'd like to hear about experiences with both of them. In my 
> preliminary tests i guess it was
> difficult to work with Eclipse with focus on Web development. 
> For instance, it doesn't have a cool
> JSP editor like Netbeans. I've tried an Eclipse plugin, but 
> its features are inferior than
> Netbeans offered features.
>  But i liked Eclipse's plugins feature. And it has a better 
> aproach to manage code quality than
> Netbeans.
>  So, opinions?
> 
> Best regards,
>  Daniel.
> 
> PS: Sorry for possible language mistakes. English is not my 
> native language.
> 
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> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
> 
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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[OT] Eclipse IDE

2003-01-20 Thread Daniel H. F. e Silva

Hi all,
 I know that it is very possible that this subject was already discussed here, but i 
couldn't
search on archives (why is this resource disabled?).
 I'm beginning to design a software development process specification as a job task. 
It will
include, for instance, a list of all tools, software, frameworks, etc, necessary to 
develop
Web-based solutions in J2EE platform.
 And after doing a lot of research, i've found that open-source world has two leading 
IDEs:
Netbeans and Eclipse.
 I'd like to hear about experiences with both of them. In my preliminary tests i guess 
it was
difficult to work with Eclipse with focus on Web development. For instance, it doesn't 
have a cool
JSP editor like Netbeans. I've tried an Eclipse plugin, but its features are inferior 
than
Netbeans offered features.
 But i liked Eclipse's plugins feature. And it has a better aproach to manage code 
quality than
Netbeans.
 So, opinions?

Best regards,
 Daniel.

PS: Sorry for possible language mistakes. English is not my native language.

__
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

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