[biofuel] Castor oil
Quick note: I was considering castor plants as an energy crop for use here in the Philippines. What deterred me was that Purseglove lists castor plants as soil-depleting, requiring extensive fertilization to maintain soil productivity. Further inquiry revealed that castor used to be cultivated here on a large scale - mainly for paints and varnishes. It was given up because it wasn't profitable - probably because of the need to buy lots of imported fertilizer. Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Lanao del Norte -- Remember September 11, 2001 but don't forget July 4, 1776 They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/7dY7FD/R_ZEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Global Warming fertilizer
"And I'm sure that you'll also notice that the compilers at this site don't refute ozone depletion as the myth that you would suggest or have others believe." I did notice that they hew to the Party Line - which is still tenable if you are only aware of errors in reduction of the SATELLITE data. Once it is clear that the surface survey data were also incorrectly processed it becomes untenable. But let's be charitable and say they are not aware of those facts. And let's also ignore the fact that there are other, much stronger arguments against any connection between the Ozone Hole and CFC's, namely: ~most CFC emissions are in the Northern Hemisphere - which depending on whom you read has either no ozone hole or a slight "dimple" - while the big (though still only seasonal) ozone hole is in the south ~no site that I have yet found even mentions the active Antarctic volcanoes Erebus and Terror, which continuously emit chlorine compounds in hot plumes that convect them to high altitudes. Marc -- Remember September 11, 2001 but don't forget July 4, 1776 They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Global warming fertilizer
"Subject: Re: Global warming b.s. And of course you have reputable references and are willing to forward them for the benefit of all, yes? References which support the claim of seasonal pre-existence and no increased in loss of stratospheric ozone?" Just to amuse myself, I did a WebFerret search. Most sites have only the usual orthodoxy, but this one at least mentions error in data reduction coding, though it mentions only the later satellite observations and does not give references. http://www.atm.ch.cam.ac.uk/tour/part1.html I'll ask my informant next time he calls me from Switzerland. I doubt that the information will have any impact on this list, but it should come in handy in a more open forum. Best, Marc -- Remember September 11, 2001 but don't forget July 4, 1776 They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Global warming fertilizer
"Subject: Re: Global warming b.s. You keep coming back with this stuff, eh, Marc? You get debunked, you wait a few months and then try it again as if it never happened." Sorry - must have missed the message that "debunked" me; all I remember was a lot of orthodoxy being spouted. "Will you be telling us again soon that nukes are good for you too?" Been there, done that. You'll learn yourself soon enough. Marc -- Remember September 11, 2001 but don't forget July 4, 1776 They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] "black ops"
"Well said Keith, this guys numbers are totally out of whack. They are so far from correct, that I suspect that Christoper is a paid propaganda writer. His words sound very much like someone who is involved in the black ops profession. It seems like every list that is set up to do some public good is infected with these folks who just keep causing friction. I sure wish these know-it-all creeps who offer nothing but opinion yet demand proof, would get their own damn list." Yeah, right. If you can't refute the message, attack the messenger. Better still - accuse him of working for the CIA! Works every time. Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Philippines -- Remember September 11, 2001 but don't forget July 4, 1776 They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Global warming b.s.
>> Today, >> using much of the same data, >No way. Even where the same climate records are used, new ways of >crunching them and of correlating them with each other, with other >evidence and with huge amounts of new data have produced new and much >improved information from the old records. An early 70s mainframe had >16kb of RAM. NASA's new climate-change supercomputer has 1024 CPUs. >Other areas have seen similar advances, from ground-level studies to >satellites. Hundreds of major institutes all over the world are >involved in this work. Phooey. More memory and faster processors just make bad code execute faster. The principles of data reduction are not new, and are not processor-dependent. The rule is still garbage in, garbage out - and the "garbage in" can be either bad data or flawed concepts embodied in bad data-reduction code, or both. My favorite story concerns the other eco-catastrophe hoodoo, the destruction of the ozone layer. When the first Antarctic surface ultraviolet flux measurements were made during the 1957 International Geophysical Year, the data reduction code was written to arbitrarily exclude data showing a flux above a certain value, which was considered "impossible." Readings above that value would thus be indicative of instrument failure or an error in recording the data. When the code was rewritten years later, that bias was not included, and the Antarctic ozone hole suddenly "appeared." It had of course been there - seasonally - all along, but you still find that error propagating today, and the sudden appearance of the hole used as proof of rapid decay of the ozone layer - which of COURSE is caused by chlorofluorocarbons, as all right-thinking people know. Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Philippines -- Remember September 11, 2001 but don't forget July 4, 1776 They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Water injection vs. water in fuel
Basically, the reason for excluding water from diesel fuel - aside from its devastating effect in cold climates - is to prevent corrosion of the injection system. A water mist is helpful in moderating combustion and boosting output under come circumstances, but it, too, must be used with caution to prevent corrosion of the upper cylinder. Basically, you start then engine "dry" and start the mist only when it is fully warmed up. You stop the mist before stopping the engine, giving time for any condensed water in the intake manifold to vaporize and go through the engine. Marc de Piolenc -- Remember September 11, 2001 but don't forget July 4, 1776 They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/9bTolB/TM -~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Continuous manufacture of absolute alcohol
While looking for something else, came up with a copy of US Patent 1,704,213, "Apparatus for the Continuous Manufacture of Absolute Alcohol" and scanned it. Anybody want it? Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Philippines -- Remember September 11, 2001 but don't forget July 4, 1776 They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Hybrid Electric Vehicles
Wow! Ford is going to revive the Atkinsson cycle! This I gotta see, because I have no idea how to build a high-speed engine embodying that cycle. Makes good sense thermodynamically, because compression and expansion ratios can be different. Marc de Piolenc -- Remember September 11, 2001 but don't forget July 4, 1776 They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] hydrous ethanol
Ken Provost wrote " George wrote >: > > > My thinking is this, hydrous ethanol (let's say 180 proof) is a lot >cheaper and faster to make than anhydrous. Mix the hydrous ethanol >with your gasoline and let it set until the water falls out and then >drain the water off. "I can't imagine this would work to dry alcohol, or nobody would bother with the fancy distillations, entraining cosolvents, molecular sieves, etc. I know that's not a real answer, but maybe someone else can give the specific reason it doesn't work that way." Separation does occur, but the two phases are still mixtures - a gasoline/water phase and an ethanol/water phase. Most of the water ends up in one of the two phases - gasoline/water, I think - so this process can be and has been used in dehydrating ethanol for fuel. It is not useful for producing stable gasohol, however, because of the composition of the phases; the gasoline ends up contaminated with water and almost completely alcohol-free. Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Philippines -- Remember September 11, 2001 but don't forget July 4, 1776 They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] electro-lipid engine
"Students:Terence Fong, Elliott Owen Coach:Rani Takhar Electro-Lipid Propulsion System. This hybrid combustion/electrical engine uses lipids (namely glycerol) instead of gas to create a powerful engine that reuses half of its explosive force and requires fewer cylinders. The accompanying electric motor is recharged by the engine." Glycerol is of course not a lipid. Kinda makes you wonder about the validity of the rest of this alleged technical miracle. Marc de Piolenc Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Solid catalyst
Has anybody done any digging on-line? What do we know about this process so far? I must have missed earlier posts, so all I have is the name INEEL and the fact that it involves a solid catalyst. Marc de Piolenc -- Remember September 11, 2001 but don't forget July 4, 1776 They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vf6MrB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] sodium borohydrIDE
No entry for sodium borohydrate in the Merck Index. The following pertains to sodium borohydride: NaBH4 "cubic crystals" "..in the presence of various metallic salts reacts smoothly with water yielding 2.4 liters of hydrogen per gram..." No info on synthesis, but said to be "commercially available." Marc de Piolenc -- Remember September 11, 2001 but don't forget July 4, 1776 Rather than make war on the American people and their liberties, ...Congress should be looking for ways to empower them to protect themselves when warranted. They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Break free. Great American Smokeout http://us.click.yahoo.com/3vN8tD/.pSDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Popularity of sport/utility vehicles
Dana Linscott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: "There are plenty of autos available for the folks that want a sporty/high horsepower vehicle...at least in the US. No horsepower resriction that I know of on cars. I can easily get a much higher performance auto than SUV for less money." Interesting - the manufacturers get around Federal model/horsepower penalties by BUILDING SUVs. I just assumed they were passing their savings to the consumer as an incentive to BUY the darn things. "A few do it because they percieve bigger as safer(incorrectly)..and others for the "status" symbol." The actuarial statistics are quite clear: bigger IS safer. You don't have to like it (I don't), but it's a fact. Your chances of dying in a crash are higher if you drive a small car. I don't happen to consider that sufficient reason to buy a big heavy automobile - limiting one's road mileage and driving defensively can reduce one's risk of being in an accident in the first place - but if a collision does occur you're better off in a Bronco than in a beetle. Under winter driving conditions a 4x4 SUV - competently driven - is also safer in an accident-avoidance sense. Marc de Piolenc --- "F. Marc de Piolenc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > SUVs are popular because they are the only way to > get around the > horsepower restrictions that make most > Government-regulated production > cars too sluggish for many drivers. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Win a Capcom Console Game. http://us.click.yahoo.com/smpz8B/fxbDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Popularity of sport/utility vehicles
Forgive me for stating the obvious, but nobody else has yet... SUVs are popular because they are the only way to get around the horsepower restrictions that make most Government-regulated production cars too sluggish for many drivers. Many jurisdictions have some kind of exemption for "utility" vehicles, hence their popularity. For those who can't afford SUVs, there is a lively trade in older "muscle" cars in the States and an even livelier one in conversion/upgrade kits. Marc de Piolenc Iligan City, Philippines -- Remember September 11, 2001 but don't forget July 4, 1776 Rather than make war on the American people and their liberties, ...Congress should be looking for ways to empower them to protect themselves when warranted. They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Unlimited PC-PC calling at Crystal Voice! - Only $1/Mo. Download your free 30 day trial. Click here. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Gb1xVB/GxbDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] BioD in the developing world
Jim Miller wrote: "Marc: Where are you located and what is your connection with biodiesel and Phillipines." I'm in Iligan City, on the northeast corner of Mindanao near where the Zamboanga Peninsula joins the "mainland" of the island. My interest in biodiesel is in connection with a rather ambitious plan I am writing to restructure coconut-based industries here to pull them up out of what is shaping up as a permanent slump. More specifically, I have been asked to advise the Mayor of Iligan in connection with an investor group's plan to set up a modern coconut-based plant here, which may or may not include BD. I'm supposed to head over to Cebu with him "soon" to confer with these folks. "Soon" most likely means next year, as with Ramadan here and Christmas approaching, nothing much is going to get done before the New Year. Best, Marc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] BioD in the developing world
From: "James E. Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: "The problem is the technology. Current conversion processing produces biodiesel which must sell for three or so times the cost of regular diesel. Marketing is not the problem, cost is." Hear, hear! Coco-based biodiesel was being produced here as long ago as 1992. The company that did it still exists, but they are no longer producing biodiesel - at least not for market. "If anyone is interested in opening the market for biodiesel plants in Asia, let know." Definitely yes. If there is ever a cost-effective process (or the price of the "real" diesel fuel goes through the roof, I want to help get BD production under weigh. " There may be a solution coming down the pike, but it is a ways off. If it pans out, then biodiesel could be competitive with regular diesel. If funding is available for coconut oil or palm oil conversion to biodiesel, then let me know asap as it will take some time and effort to coax the technology out of the labratory and into a production plant. The conversion plant could easily cost upwards of ten million and would require a very stable, very legal source of veggie oil. No investor is going to invest any money in an unstable country. If the country does not have crushing and extraction plants, then one would need investment capital for that plant as well. If the technology pans out, the biodiesel will be very competitive with petrodiesel, at least in the North American market. Developing the conversion plant in a foreign country will take ironclad agreements with all levels of govenment, including insurance against government failure to cooperate and/or exappropriation. These assurances would have to be backed up by secured collateral in the United States or a guarantee by the U.S. Department of Commerce to the same effect." By your rather conservative definition, I think that ANY country would qualify as "unstable," as all governments engage in expropriation. It's given various euphemistic titles, but there it is. The Philippines has a consistent policy of supporting anything that widens the market for coconut produts and/or secures a better producer price. Theoretically, that policy could change instantly - you'll never get a written guarantee that it won't (at least none worthy of credence), but on the other hand it hasn't happened and is not likely to, as the coco business is a mainstay of the economy and is in terrible trouble right now - a political hot potato that no pol wants to get too close to. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Stop Smoking Now Nicotrol will help http://us.click.yahoo.com/2vN8tD/_pSDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] BioD in the developine world
"wolfie1166" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: "I have a project that I think will work but I'm having trouble getting started, specifically I can't find a good source of funding. The project involves introducing Biodiesel to a country in the developing world that curently grows alot of oil seed crops. We would import biodiesel converters to the country and work with farmers cooperatives to teach them how to run the equipment and market the products (Biod., glycerine, and animal feed). Does anyone know of an organization that would fund this type of project?" Funding from several sources is available here for coconut-based industries. What specifically do you have to offer that is not already being implemented here? It can't be the technology (which was developed here in the early 90's) so I assume it's the marketing package? Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Philippines -- Remember September 11, 2001 but don't forget July 4, 1776 Rather than make war on the American people and their liberties, ...Congress should be looking for ways to empower them to protect themselves when warranted. They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Stop Smoking Now Nicotrol will help http://us.click.yahoo.com/2vN8tD/_pSDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Another way of using vegetable oils
Spotted the following while looking through my synthetic fuels files. It's from a 1935 report by the [Belgian] National Scientific Research Fund. Tranlated from the French, it reads: Fuels Obtained by Cracking Fatty Oils [i.e. vegetable oils] "It was already noted some time ago that certain fatty oils, such as palm oil, when heated in the presence of certain catalysts such as zinc chloride or magnesium chloride, underwent decomposition at relatively low temperature and thus yielded a certain quantity of substances having properties rather similar to those of gasoline. This solution would be of interest only for a country producing fatty oils in rather considerable quantity, and some have thought that this method could be applicable in certain colonies. One must, however, be very reserved about forming any opinion; fatty oils can be utilized in certain colonies for much more useful purposes and with much greater efficiency that transforming them into light fuels." Somebody was asking whether fuels for spark-ignition engines could be made from vegetable oils. It seems the answer is "Yes, but..." Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Philippines -- Remember September 11, 2001 but don't forget July 4, 1776 Rather than make war on the American people and their liberties, ...Congress should be looking for ways to empower them to protect themselves when warranted. They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> See What You've Been Missing! Amazing Wireless Video Camera. Click here http://us.click.yahoo.com/75YKVC/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Methanol - 11th Enc. Britannical entry
>From the Encyclopedia Britannica, 11th Edition (1910): METHYL ALCOHOL (CH3OH),the simplest aliphatic alcohol; an impure form is known in commerce as wood-spirit, being produced in the destructive distillation of wood. The name methyl, from [EMAIL PROTECTED], wine, I%?J, wood, explains its origin. Discovered by Boyle in 1661, it was first carefully studied by Dumas and Pligot in 1831; its synthesis from its elements (through methane and methyl chloride)was effected by Berthelot in 1858. It is manufactured by distilling wood in iron retorts at about 500¡C., when an aqueous distillate, containing methyl alcohol, acetone, acetic acid and methyl acetic ester, is obtained. This is neutralized with lime and redistilled in order to remove acetic acid. The distillate is treated with anhydrous calcium chloride, the crystalline compound formed with the alcohol being separated and decomposed by redistilling with water. The aqueous product is then dehydrated with potash or lime. To obtain it perfectly pure the crude alcohol is combined with benzoic or acetic acid, and the resulting ester separated, purified, and finally decomposed with potash. Methyl alcohol is also obtained in the dry distillation of molasses. The amount of methyl alcohol present in wood spirit is determined by converting it into methyl iodide by acting with phosphorus iodide; and the acetone by converting it into iodoform by boiling with an alkaline solution of iodine in potassium iodide; ethyl alcohol is detected by giving acetylene on heating with concentrated sulphuric acid, methyl alcohol, under the same circumstances, giving methyl ether. Pure methyl alcohol is a colourless mobile liquid, boiling at 66¡-67¡,and having a specific gravity of 0.8142 at 0¡C. If has a burning taste, and generally a spirituous odour but when absolutely pure it is said to be odourless. It mixes in all proportions with water, alcohol and ether. Its compound with calcium chloride has the formula CaCl2.4CH3.OH, and with barium oxide BaO.2CH3OH. Oxidation gives formaldehyde, formic acid and carbonic acid; chlorine and bromine react, but less readily than with ethyl alcohol. The chief industrial applications are for making denatured alcohol (q.v.), and as a solvent, e.g. in varnish manufacture; it is also used for a fuel; a purer product is extensively used in the colour and fine chemical industries. -- Remember September 11, 2001 but don't forget July 4, 1776 Rather than make war on the American people and their liberties, ...Congress should be looking for ways to empower them to protect themselves when warranted. They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Universal Inkjet Refill Kit $29.95 Refill any ink cartridge for less! Includes black and color ink. http://us.click.yahoo.com/iHh8lD/MkNDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Comments - "You think petrol grows on trees?"
I might as well jump in with the obvious comment - namely that more than cracking is required to make hydrocarbons from lipids, so something is being left out. I also fail to understand the exertions with zeolites, etc. to obtain light fractions, when enormous gains can be realized with biodiesel alone, with the relatively simple techniques advocated on this List. Diesel hardware is already popular in SE Asia because of its durability and greater efficiency, so why not push Diesels for all but the smallest applications, and push alcohol as a fuel for the small spark-ignition engines that are left over? Second comment: if the Malaysians are really worried about palm oil "overproduction" (read: a depressed price), then they are victims of their own overwhelming efficiency in palm monoculture, which has been eating into the market share of coconut oil (one of the Philippines' main products) to the extent that the market for coco oil is slowly declining while the vegetable oil market as a whole is growing at a prodigious rate. Technical details on their work would be of interest, if anybody can dig them up. Marc de Piolenc Philippines -- Remember September 11, 2001 but don't forget July 4, 1776 Rather than make war on the American people and their liberties, ...Congress should be looking for ways to empower them to protect themselves when warranted. They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Coco Diesel Technology
Dear Mr. Maray, I would like to know more about this technology. Is it possible to visit your operating plant(s) in the Philippines? Marc de Piolenc Iligan > Message: 1 > RE: The NRE System for Efficiently Producing Coconut Diesel Fuel > > Coco diesel is a vegetable-based fuel from the coconut which is economically > competitive, environment-friendly and renewable. Coconut producers will > benefit from improved and stabilized coconut prices while the environment > gets a respite from the noxious gases associated with petroleum. Coconut > producing countries will benefit from the jobs created, revenues generated > and precious foreign exchanged saved. Coco diesel will satisfy the KYOTO > PROTOCOL in the aspect of developing vegetable-based fuel alternatives for > the future to lessen petroleum consumption which causes greenhouse effect and > global warming. > > Our company has developed the NRE System, an efficient method of converting > grated coconut and coconut water into coco diesel. Patent protection for the > system is now being worked out by Invention Technologies, Inc. of Coral > Gables, Florida, U.S.A. > > We would like to offer this revolutionary system to your country’s > entrepreneurs under a franchise/royalty arrangement. > > Under our wet process, 40% percent coco diesel yield is recovered. Thus, for > 100 kilograms of grated coconut 40 kilograms of coco diesel is produced. > > In the Philippines, the production of coco diesel is on stream , using the > dry process, i.e. from copra. Which is different from our NRE System in that > the coco diesel yield is lesser. The NRE System offers a direct and more > efficient method for converting coconut oil into diesel as the expressed coco > diesel approaches 100 percent efficiency. The NRE method combines methane > fermentation, heating under pressure and a secret process, all of which > increases the cetane value of the coco diesel. > > We welcome inquiries from your entrepreneurs. Please do not hesitate to > contact us for further enlightenment. > > Thank you for this attention and may we hear from you soon. > > Yours very truly, > > BENITO B. MARAY Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Cobra Gas Powered Scooter. Top speed exceeds 25 mph. Originally $599.95. Now $399.95 at Youcansave.com. http://us.click.yahoo.com/K11sED/OkNDAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Ethanol from coal - historical note (no tech content)
Re: Ethanol from coal - historical note (no tech content) history point hitler was not elected he was appointed by the chansler ( i for get his name) greg m Of course that's true, Greg - though not terribly significant. In countries with a parliamentary system (the more common form of representative government), the party or coalition which attains the majority in Parliament gets to choose the head of state - he isn't elected directly. The actual appointment of that head is usually mere formality, however. I doubt that Hindenburg really WANTED the likes of Hitler running things, but he didn't really have a choice once the National Socialists controlled the legislature. Marc de Piolenc -- Remember September 11, 2001 but don't forget July 4, 1776 Kill terrorists, not freedom! They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/MDsVHB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Ethanol from coal - historical note (no tech content)
"Fischer-Tropsch conversion of synthesis gas to oxycarbon alcohols or into synfuel hydrocarbons (syn-gasoline, diesel, jet fuel) which is first made by coal gasification processes (invented back in 1917 by Hitler's synthetic fuels scientists) is probably the cheapest way I know of to produce methanol. " Quick historical note: Hitler was elected to power in the early 30's (his first attempt to seize power by coup was in the early 20's - he wrote Mein Kampf in prison after that failed attempt). In 1917, Hitler was a battalion messenger - a corporal who was ultimately decorated for bravery under fire! Thus, calling Fischer and the other synthetic ammonia/synthetic hydrocarbon researchers Hitler's scientists is deeply unfair to them, as there is no evidence for Nazism or Nazi sympathies. They had the misfortune to be Germans at a time when Germany was gradually becoming radicalized. If the Reds had won the bipolar power struggle in the Thirties, those same workers would likely have been labeled Commies, with equal justice! Marc de Piolenc -- Remember September 11, 2001 but don't forget July 4, 1776 Kill terrorists, not freedom! They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/47cccB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Ethanol from coal
" The Germans were doing this back in the 1930's." Not with microorganisms! I would love to learn the details of this process. Marc de Piolenc -- Remember September 11, 2001 Kill terrorists, not freedom! They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/MDsVHB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Nuclear plant safety against aircraft strikes
"If the containment was adequate why did the judge in the 3 mile Island case order reinforcement of the containment structure? The basis for the extra expense, and construction delay, was 3 Mile Island constituted an above average risk due to flight path and the power plant location. The court had expert testimony and access to engineering plans. It seems they didn't share your belief." What phase of engineering was the judge qualified in? I'm afraid I don't have much respect for judicial interference in engineering matters. And my guess is that when the transcript is read, it will be found to require further STUDY and DOCUMENTATION of the containment structure's ability to withstand aircraft impact, not any actual change in the design. That was the case with Diablo Canyon's alleged vulnerability to earthquake. The antinuke crowd failed to stop construction permanently, but they did add to the cost of the project by generating delay and "study" to prove what should already be obvious. Marc de Piolenc Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/47cccB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Safety of nuclear power plants
"Uh, I think I'll go with Tom Clements. Both he and the Nuclear Control Institute have a long history and a good track record in these matters. Whereas you, Marc, have not exactly covered yourself in glory defending matters nuclear here. Last time your main authority was some 30-year-old book, long out of print, and you weren't able to counter the arguments put against your views. Which arguments still stand." So you make decisions in important matters by choosing authorities? Whatever happened to doing your own research? You don't have to take my word for it, and you definitely should not take Mr. Clements'. The laws of physics have not changed since 1976, and so what if the book is out of print? Does the validity of an argument lapse because you can't order a copy from Barnes & Noble? As for "arguments," I assume you are referring to the hysterical and digressive ranting of another listmember. I didn't reply because rational argument had ceased and the only way to get him to shut up was to do so myself. The only rational argument remaining unanswered is mine, based on the continued good health of airline pilots. No takers. Silence is not acquiescence. Marc de Piolenc http://www89.pair.com/techinfo/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/47cccB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Nuclear plant safety against aircraft strikes
"... Mr. Clements said threats from the air -- such as missile attacks and crashing airliners -- haven't been given much thought, and that these installations are just as defenceless to such an attack as the Pentagon and other office buildings." If he means defenseless in the sense of being unable to PREVENT attack, then of course I must agree. But if he means unable to SURVIVE then he is wrong. The conditions that containment are meant to survive are much more stringent than an airliner impact. You need to understand that aircraft are not high-density objects - in ordnance terms their ballistic coefficient is low. They HAVE to be light in order to fly! In addition, they are frangible - they burst easily - and most of their mass dissipates with the residual fuel, so they cannot penetrate hard targets. The World Trade Towers were soft-shell targets, and even they were not destroyed by impact, but by the subsequent fire. A fire on the outside of a nuclear plant containment dome would have no effect whatever except to scorch the shell and raise the temperature inside by a few degrees. Marc de Piolenc Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/47cccB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Nuclear Plant safety
"Last summer we were talking about nuclear energy in this BIOFUELS newsgroup. Somebody told that (most or all?) nuclear powerplants have been designed so that they are able to withstand fighter aircraft which falls onto the dome of the powerplant. But can the domes withstand to a falling full-loaded passenger plane? Or to a falling helicopter with 5 tons of explosives onboard?" ALL nuclear reactors in the West (important distinction, as the Soviets did not believe in the necessity of containment) are required to have concrete containment structures. These are METERS thick, and are prestressed (so that impact actually starts off RELIEVING stress). An airplane - however large - could do no more damage to a nuclear powerplant than it could to the Matterhorn. The World Trade towers were typical skyscraper construction - a light steel framework and cladding - but kindly note that even they were not destroyed by the impact of the jets, but by the kerosene blowtorch effect of the thousands of gallons of jet fuel burning inside them. That is not to say that an aircraft could not do terrible damage to a nuclear powerplant, as most have important power-conversion components housed outside containment. Such an attack could force shutdown for an extended period while the turbine house and switchgear were dug out and rebuilt, power lines relaid, etc. But it would not breach containment - the reactor would simply slumber until it was safe to restart. The same effort would completely destroy a coal-fired or oil-fired plant. A hydroelectric plant would likely lose only its switchgear and transmission lines (and turbine house as well if housed outside the dam structure); the dam would not be breached. Marc de Piolenc Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/MDsVHB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] First hydrocarbon fuel cell...NOT BY FORTY YEARS
"In March 2000, Gorte and colleague John Vohs, professor and chair of chemical engineering at UPenn, reported developing a fuel cell that could run on butane, the first fuel cell to operate on a fuel other than hydrogen." Don't the dufuses who report these things EVER do their homework? There have been direct hydrocarbon fuel cells since the Sixties - I've got a book dated 1966 that reports on several types. Diesel fuel, now - there's an advance, and it deserves credit for what it is - an improvement on technology that has been in development for forty years. Marc de Piolenc Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/47cccB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: Emulsion/slurry fuels data dump
Thanks! Marc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Turndown is the ability of the boiler plant to run at part load. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/M8mxkD/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Wilkinson: Diesel Aircraft Engines
"if anyone can find the book diesel aviation engines by paul h. wilkinson it was published in 3 editions ,by new york aeronautics council inc. in the early 1940`s." I have a master for that book, and sell photocopies both bound and unbound. Contact me off list if interested or check ABE. Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] "Dynacam" engine
"DynaCam ( a company in California) has recently certified their unusual engine. Gasoline version. I remember many years ago when they were developing it there was talk of a two-stroke and a diesel version, apparently nothing came of that." The Dynacam engine has had a type certificate since the 1930's! It was then known as the Herrmann engine, after its inventor. I love barrel engines, but this one is no more likely to achieve success in the market than any other, especially now. I hate it that this new company is claiming a recent certification, which would imply compliance with much more stringent requirements now in effect, instead of sneaking in under "grandfather" rules. Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Diesel aircraft engines
Subject: Re: RE: Diesel Aircraft Actually, it's strange that more diesels haven't been used in planes. The low revving powerband is ideal, most auto-gas engine conversions have to use a gear rpm reducer for the prop, since they badly lose efficiency over 2000 rpm. I suppose weight is a factor, but there have been plenty of aircooled diesels, and, in recent years, any number of water-cooled auto engine conversions. Many German aircraft of 1930-1945 were powered by the Junkers "JuMo" opposed piston two-stroke diesels in various sizes, with and without turbo-supercharging, including the Ju88 high altitude, high speed bomber. These were liquid cooled. Oddly enough, though the Deutz aircooled diesels have done well on the ground, the only aircooled aircraft diesels I know of are the Packard and Guiberson engines, both technically successful but neither successful in the market. The Packard was used in setting an endurance record in the "Question Mark," though. The first Pratt and Whitney turboprop powerplant was also an opposed piston diesel in a sense - the PT-1 used a free-piston gas generator operating on the Diesel cycle to provide hot gas to the propulsion turbine. Recently, Renault was supposed to be working on an aeronautical diesel plant, but I have no further info. Zoche in Germany seems to have failed to achieve certification. A friend of mine did a preliminary design study on a long-endurance personal aircraft using two converted VW Rabbit (Golf) diesels - the numbers looked very nice. Then we both got involved in other things. I still have the notes on file. Basically, though, diesels make good sense for low speed, long endurance aircraft. Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Emulsion/slurry fuels data dump
I don't know if the folllowing will be of any use to those interested in emulsion fuels, but it's what I have on file. 1. Mix gas with water for more MPG? Popular Science, date unknown. Refers to an article on an ultrasonic emulsifier that appeared in Pop. Sci. November 1972. Describes work of a prof. who is following up on work done by Frank Belknap on emulsion fuels in the 1920's. Belknaps were ternary mixtures, while current work is on gasoline/water emulsions for use in spark-ignition engines. Benefits claimed include reduced compression work due to wet compression (this applies only to spark-ignition engines wherein the fuel/water emulsion comes in with the fresh air charge; Diesels would benefit only minimally); increase in effective Octane number (better resistance to end-gas detonation, allowing complete elimination of lead antiknock agents. Disadvantages include reduced effective vapor pressure, leading to hard starting. 2. Venezuela Pushing "Liquid Coal." New York Times, October 15, 1990. Actually a slurry fuel or suspension rather than an emulsion, Orimulsion is offered as an alternative to No. 6 fuel oil. Powerplant must be retrofitted with scrubbers to remove sulphur (apparently Venezuelan coal is high-sulphur). Cost of slurry fuel $1.30 per barrel vs. current (1990) crude price of $19. No further data. 3. Researchers use coal-water mix in oil-fired boilers. Industrial Research & Development, December 1981. DOE Pittsburgh work on boiler firing with coal/water emulsion. Checking various coals and effect of ash in the long term. No further data. 4. Combustion of coal/oil/water slurries. NASA Tech Briefs, Summer 1981 pp 152, 153 [my copy of the second page is mission, so I don't have the TB number or the full TSP]. Bench-scale lab setup to flash-vaporize and ignite suspended slurry droplets and measure their combustion performance acoustically and visually. Clever. 5. Alternative Heating with Coal Developed. Navy Domestic Technology Transfer Fact Sheet; backup documentation package for Fact Sheet Article #170401. Naval Civil Engineering Laboratory developed a coal-burning furnace called the Annular Vortex Combustor, capable of operating on Dry Ultrafine Coal, utility grind Pulverized Coal and Coal-Water Fuel [presumably, since these designations are capitalized, there is a specification somewhere for each one...?]. Results claimed: output range .1-30 MBtu/hr (dimensions of the combustor are not given!) 99% combustion efficiency no preheating required 15 minute startup from cold to full load turndown capability on the order of 3:1 (can somebody define "turndown" for me in this context?) low temperature operation (1660-2200 degrees F) Best, Marc de Piolenc Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: Emulsion fuels
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Oops sorry Marc - it was ages ago - I could have sworn it was you. > > Pity I never saved the email so the credit could go the the right > person :) > > The person concerned said the test unit was a single cyl generator. > The exhaust glowed red on emulsified fuel. It looks like mixing water > and fuel is a lot more complex than we might be led to believe. Sounds like the remedy is no more complex than advancing ignition timing. Some fundamental research on the composition of the micelles that form when the emulsion is injected might pay off. If, as I suspect, this particular emulsion resulted in oil droplets coated with water, switching to an emulsifying agent that had the opposite effect (if such a thing is chemically possible) might result in an acceleration of combustion! Marc de Piolenc Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Emulsion fuels
I could not have told you that, because I didn't know that until I learned it from your message, below! Perhaps a message in which somebody else's post was quoted? Interesting, though... Marc de Piolenc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Marc de Piolenc told me last year that emulsified fuels can cause > problems with the burn being slowed enough to cause overheating of > the exhaust. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Excess deaths and rhetorical dodges
"A PRIMER IN THE HISTORY OF NUCLEAR ACCIDENTS: "BROKEN ARROWS" - accidents which threaten nuclear devastation - 36 known by 1991 - none of which were acknowledged willingly. Almost without question more have not surfaced. 1) July 27, 1956, RAF Lakenheath, Cambridgeshire. Great Britain. US B-47 crashes upon landing. Three Mark-6 bombs come within a few degrees of detonation." Pure poo-poo. What you mean is that the chemical explosives surrounding the core might have detonated. That does not equate to a NUCLEAR detonation. This is the kind of rhetorical trickery that really annoys me. By the way, how did we get on the subject of nuclear WEAPONS? Another rhetorical shift, perhaps made necessary by the lack of excitement in commercial nuclear power? Yeah. Marc de Piolenc 2) 1950, Fairfield-Suisum USAFB, California, USA. A US aircraft crashes. Nuclear bomb on board explodes during the fire, killing 19 men. Pentagon only admits the accident in 1981. Base renamed to Travis AFB, after General Travis who died in explosion. 3) March 10, 1956. US B-47 fails to meet refueling tanker and crashes into the Mediterranean. Two capsules of nuclear material for bombs presumably lost. 4) 1957. A Mark-17 nuclear bomb accidentally dropped near Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA. Believed to be the same as the Mark-17 dropped on Bikini Atoll, Marshal Islands, 1954, yielding 1,200 times that of the Hiroshima bomb. Fortunately, when the 20 ton explosive trigger detonated, the nuclear device failed to ignite. 5) 1961, Goldsboro, North Carolina, USA. A 24 megaton bomb, approximately 1,900 times more powerful than the Hiroshima bomb, was accidentally dropped over Goldsboro. Five of six safety devices were destroyed upon impact, leaving only one safety device between an "incident" and devastation across half the Eastern Seaboard. 6) January 17, 1966, near Polomares, Spain. A US B-52 collides with a jet. The conventional explosive detonation devices scatter the plutonium of 2 of the 4 bombs over an enormous area. 7) January 21, 1968, near Thule, Greenland. Another B-52 collision results in the plutonium cores of all four bombs on board being scattered over a greater land mass than the Polomares, Spain accident. Effects of plutonium contamination are still being realized to date, despite "intensive cleanup" and "removal of soil to the US," now considered to be largely fictitious measures. 8) December, 1964, Ellsworth AFB, South Dakota, USA. A Minuteman nuclear missile sparks a tremendous explosion when a retrorocket accidentally fires. 9) 1960, McGuire AFB, New Jersey, USA. A Bomarc missile explodes in its silo. Plutonium contamination is so severe that the entombment area is covered by 500,000 square feet of concrete. Depth of concrete undetermined. 10) 1980. (Site unknown.) Titan nuclear missile launches itself after a workman drops a wrench down the silo. The wrench punctures a fuel tank, resulting in an explosion that sets the rocket in motion. Fortunately, the warhead did not explode when the rocket crashed one quarter of one mile distant. 11) April 10, 1963, off the Cape Cod Coast, Massachusetts, USA. The nuclear submarine USS Thresher implodes and sinks in 8,500 feet of water. 129 lives lost. 12) May 27, 1968, 400 miles southwest of the Azore Islands. The nuclear submarine USS Scorpion sinks in 10,000 feet of water. Two ASTOR nuclear torpedoes lost. Ninety-nine crewmen dead. . Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Excess deaths from power industries
Another effusion: ".. PREFACE: ... No, Marc. I believe that the true matter behind your point is that you would prefer to obfuscate the issue(s), deriving some extremely peculiar form of personal satisfaction. Coal? It Kills.Nuclear? It Kills. Oil? It Kills. But you want to argue over which death has more meaning?" No, I don't. I wasn't talking about the meaning of DEATH, only the meaning of the article - or rather the lack of same. I think you will agree that fewer dead people are better than more dead people. THAT IS THE ONLY CHOICE WE HAVE. All power industries kill, and we can't choose rationally between them until we know which kill the fewest. That's all. First read, then think, THEN REPLY please. Marc de Piolenc Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] air car, reclaiming some energy?
Clever, and it should work, albeit at very low efficiency - typically 10% or less. One advantage is that your Peltier devices can be the cheap, low-temp variety. You'll probably be able to use the scheme for auxiliary power - accessories. Doubt you'll recover enough useful energy for propulsion, and of course cost is still quite high. Still, anything that recovers what would otherwise be a loss, and eliminates a parasitic load, is good engineering. Marc de Piolenc Martin Klingensmith wrote: > > If the exhaust of the air car is -30C, and the surrounding air is 20C that is > a > difference of 50C. Has anyone heard of peltier devices, a group of > thermocouples bonded to ceramic plates? They produce electricity on a > temperature difference, or create a temperature difference when supplied with > electricity. It was just an idea of mine that maybe electricity could be > supplied by the temperature difference and perhaps reclaim some of the energy > required during the compression. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Excess deaths from power industries
" > > The NRC calculates that this level of > > radiation release > > spread over the population will cause 12 cancer > > deaths per reactor." Possibly true (can't verify the numbers, but know them to be non-zero). Now let's have the excess death figures for other forms of power generation, starting with coal-fired steam plants... Bottom line: there are no cost-free power technologies - only better and worse ones. So the figures are meaningless unless other power technologies' excess deaths are presented for comparison. Without those, the article is just scare tactics. Marc de Piolenc Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] A new question?
Rich Hudec wrote: > > I am a new subscriber to this group so forgive me if this question has > been discussed recently. > > Does anyone know if it is possible to replace gasoline with some type of > biofuel? Both ethanol and methanol can be used in spark-ignition engines with minimal modification; both can be derived from biomass. Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Philippines Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] More cowflops
"Message: 4 Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 12:36:27 -0400 From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Can't Make Pancakes out of Cowflop was Re: Cowflops "Following your train of thought, that "Junk science is junk science if it ignores contrary - and readily available - facts," it would be appreciated if you would submit your sources of scientific study that substantiate your claim that low dose radiation is a myth and refute the extensive studies of the best minds in the field." "All studies extant, to the knowledge of everyone in this office, have acknowledged that virtually every track of ionized radiation that passes through a cell nucleus (where mutation occurs) carries the potential to damage the nucleus and often does in a manner that is irreparable or repaired wrong (read "mutation")." "The exacting of damage to any nucleus does not depend upon the strength of radiation, whether it be from a low or high dose exposure, but simply that an electron path or track passes through the nucleus." Yes, yes, yes - I am familiar with the CLAIM and the ARGUMENT on which it is based - INTIMATELY familiar. Fortunately for Mankind, the argument fails utterly to satisfy known FACTS, to wit: - commercial aviators experience exposure levels in excess of NRC standards; if they were under NRC jurisdiction they would all have to retire early, having exceeded allowable "life doses" that are based on precisely the arguments that you adduce. - in actuality, however, many have careers spanning decades and including tens of thousands of hours spent at altitudes where ionizing radiation is many times surface background. - but they don't have greater incidence of radiation-related illnesses than any other group in the general population. Therefore the "no safe dose" argument fails. My favorite parallel is to the argument by qualified scientists that meteorite falls were impossible: "stones cannot fall from the sky because there are no stones in the sky." Of course, there were. And there are safe doses of radiation. "Further, perhaps you would care to explain what gives you or any others the right to subject human populations to the more devastating events posed by higher levels of radiation released via inevitable mechanical failures and human error?" I'm not subjecting them to anything - aviators and mountaineers get dosed at higher rates than the NRC allows in the normal course of events. "Increased exposure levels or opportunity for receiving increased exposure is not "acceptable."" You are of course welcome to decide what dose rates YOU are willing to accept, and to travel by surface conveyance and avoid visits to high places. As long as I remain free to choose otherwise, it ain't my business - only your loss. Marc de Piolenc Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Borohydrides
Not to take anything away from Millenium Cell (except that I hate their Steven Spielberg-inspired name), but this is still storage technology that begs the question of how the hydrogen gets made in the first place and where the energy for that comes from. Looks very nice as a solution to the hydrogen car problem, though. Marc de Piolenc Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Cowflops
"But I have to say without reservation that this piece of nuclear mis-and dis-information (see below) is pure, unadulterated, horse crap & cow flop of the highest order." Whew! Watch that blood pressure, and try to stick to facts rather than invective. Junk science is junk science if it ignores contrary - and readily available - facts, no matter how many senile and guilt-ridden Nobel laureates endorse it. Nature doesn't recognize authority - only facts. 76 million Frenchmen CAN be wrong. Truth will out. Marc de Piolenc Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Cars from coconuts
Neat! An old technology becomes new again. The article does get the shell confused with the surrounding fibrous husk or coir, but that is a common mistake. The thin, hard, dense shell makes excellent charcoal and is a good starting point for making activated carbon for industrial purposes. The coir has gone begging for years as upholsterers and packing-material users preferred non-perishable (mostly petroleum-based) materials. This is a smart reversal - using a proven natural material with minimal processing to displace petrochemical products. Hooray for Daimler-Benz Brazil! Maybe we'll see more of this. Of course the coir padding will likely need renewal sooner than polyester batting, but who cares? It's cheap and easily obtained! Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Philippines Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Book Recommendations
Recently resurrected from storage: Anderson, Russell E.: Biological Paths to Energy Self-Sufficiency (Van Nostrand Reinhold, 1979). Very useful because it's a monograph, by an author who really did his homework. The style and presentation are therefore completely consistent throughout the book. Bolton, James R. (Ed.): Solar Power and Fuels (Academic Press, 1977). Covers several technologies for storing solar radiant power directly in chemical form (i.e. not via photovoltaic effect and electrolysis): photolysis of water using analogs of plant chloroplasts; reversible photo-reactions etc. Baker, Bernard S. (Ed): Hydrocarbon Fuel Cell Technology (Academic Press, 1965). Not originally written to support biomass-based energy schemes, burt fits right in. Only one recent development - proton-exchange membrane (PEM) fuel cells - is not covered. Marc de Piolenc Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Nuclear
"You wouldn't think so from the publicity that BNFL puts out. Come and see how safe Windscale/Sellafield (change the name get rid of the problem) is. You can eat your tea off the floor,or at least off the glossy brochure. That reactor was the same design as Chernobyl. " Absolutely false. Chernobyl (RBMK): low pressure water moderated, no containment, positive void coefficient [and I think a positive thermal coefficient, too, but I don't have that reference in front of me] British reactors are either pressurized water with strong negative void coefficient la USA, or Magnox which are graphite moderated and gas-cooled, with a negative thermal coefficient of reactivity. I don't know which category Windscale belongs to, but neither has anything in common with Chernobyl other than the use of fissile fuels. All British reactors have containment structures, as do all commercial reactors in the West. The Russians never exported the RBMK, whic was considered a State secret because originally developed primarily as a plutonium breeder. I suspect that the fact that it was known to be unstable at low power coefficients might have had some influence, too! Even the Soviet reactors that WERE exported, e.g. to Finland, were provided at the customer's demand with containment and additional controls, even though the Russians didn't implement those at home. The RBMK would in any case never have passed licensing in the West, as it has a positive void coefficient. What this means is that if steam bubbles begin to form in the water moderator, the reactivity of the core increases - that is it goes supercritical, and does it so quickly that even dropping safety rods may not save the day. All commercial liquid-moderated reactors in the West are designed so that void formation REDUCES reactivity, a stabilizing effect. Likewise, fuel elements are designed to have a negative temperature coefficient of reactivity, reducing reactivity as temperature rises. An extreme case of this kind of design is the TRIGA research reactor, which is deliberately driven supercritical by rapid withdrawal of its control rods, but instantly damps itself down again. It can only be fired again after the rods have been reinserted and the core allowed to cool. Produces a strong neutron pulse for research as well as a beautiful blue flash for entertainment. Marc de Piolenc Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Nuclear
Keith wrote: "So global warming's a plot, GMOs are good for you, and now nukes are cleaner than Kleenex? They just had a bad press? And as with the other two, no references, no citations, just opinion, unsupported, no visible foundation (same as bubbles, which soon burst). It's not a very effective way of persuading people. But I suppose those that want to believe it will." You could start where I did - Petr Beckman's The Health Hazards of NOT Going Nuclear, which was more or less forced down my throat by a friend who was getting a little tired of my ill-informed anti-nuclear rants. It contains further references. I don't think it's in print, but there might be used copies available. I think I've given mine away. I read it intending to refute it and set my friend straight, but it didn't quite work out that way. The key reference listed in Beckman, which I checked out, was a Department of Labor [?] study of the total casualty cost of the nuclear fuel cycle, from mining to disposal, compared with other sources of energy. This was a very thorough actuarial study which included not only actual deaths and injuries per energy unit generated, but expected "excess deaths" from long-term effects of release of radioactive matierials, occupational and casual radiation exposure. Nuclear came out neck-and-neck for first [safest] place with natural gas. That forced me to look further, because there was no way to reconcile those well-documented (and publicly available) figures with the anti-nuclear crowd's propaganda - it wasn't simply a matter of opinion or interpretation. It didn't take me long to develop an extremely jaundiced view of the anti-nuclear crowd and their propaganda, which at that time was mild and seemed rational. I think that even without Beckman, I would have eventually been made suspicious by rhetorical tricks like using the same word "nuke" for both nuclear reactors and nuclear bombs, but Beckman gave me an early start. Marc de Piolenc Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Burning graphite
Kirk wrote: "Carbon or graphite moderated cores have a fatal flaw. If it catches fire you are in deep do do." This rather begs the question, doesn't it? If the graphite burns, it's because air has entered the core - and if that has happened you ALREADY have a far more serious problem than a burning moderator. So how would that have happened? For plants with a "fatal flaw," the Magnox and other graphite moderated reactors have an awfully good safety record. "Fatal flaw" my foot! - it's like saying that cooking with gas has a fatal flaw because if all the gas in the tank were to spontaneously mix with air and ignite the building would be destroyed, without explaining how the gas would mix with air in the first place. "The plant that burned on the coast of England was graphite moderated. Permanently poisoned a large area." Which plant? What area? When? Marc de Piolenc Philippines Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://promo2.yahoo.com/sbin/Yahoo!_BusinessNewsletter/survey.cgi http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Antitank missile vs. nuclear reactor
Mati Kokk wrote: "But can these reactors withstand terrorist attacks with modern anti-tank missiles? Or attacks with nuclear missiles?" Bring on all the antitank missiles you want - several meters of steel-reinforced, prestressed concrete containment, plus several inches of high-grade steel, plus an airgap can easily withstand any number of them. You would have equal success with a popgun, and it would be cheaper. As for nuclear missiles, a direct hit with a big enough one would of course be fatal, but let's put this in perspective - if you already have a nuke, why bother targeting a nuclear reactor? The resulting damage will only be imperceptibly increased by involving the reactor core, and as nuclear reactor sites are generally as remote as possible you will produce very few casualties compared to dropping the same nuke on a populated area. Which target will a terrorist prefer? The only value that a nuclear reactor might have to a terrorist is to magnify the damage that he does. It isn't suitable for that purpose, so no such attacks have materialized. Nor will they. "I have always wondered why nuclear powerplants are not built deep under the ground, lets say, in the depth of ca 200 meters or so." Because excavation is extremely expensive, so it isn't done if it is not needed. Marc de Piolenc Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://promo2.yahoo.com/sbin/Yahoo!_BusinessNewsletter/survey.cgi http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Nuclear
I realize this is a largely anti-nuclear forum, so I'll say all this quickly and only once, and only because somebody else brought it up. The low-dose rate danger is a myth based on junk science, carefully fostered by the anti-nuke movement over decades. If it were true, it would be impossible for nuclear workers to get life or health insurance without subsidy and aviators (who get cosmic-ray exposure that is significantly higher than the dose rate allowed by NRC regulations) would be dying like flies of radiation-related diseases. It just ain't so. Re long-lived nuclear waste - the longer the life, THE LOWER THE LEVEL OF RADIOACTIVITY. It's the short-lived stuff that is dangerous - and if the nuclear industry were allowed to reprocess "spent" fuel (which for safety reasons is only allowed to go to 5% burnup), the low volume, high flux waste would be segregated and stored for the several half-lives required to drop to background at very low cost, because it decays VERY FAST. The remaining low level waste would be stored in long term facilities, but with a hazard protection level commensurate with the much lower risk. The anti-nuclear crowd demonstrates either dishonesty or ignorance by quoting radiation fluxes taken from the highly radioactive waste and lifetimes that pertain to the low-rad waste. And they're the same people who are responsible for eliminating reprocessing, thus guaranteeing that 90% of the fuel value, plus all the high-level waste, plus all the low-level waste, ALL HAVE TO BE DISPOSED OF TOGETHER, thus ensuring that nuclear power is "unsafe" and uneconomical. Talk about self-fulfilling prophesies! As for reactor safety, it is possible to make reactors that are inherently safe against core meltdown - that is reactors that will do no damage outside of their containment structure even in the worst case - total primary coolant loss, total failure of all redundant engineered backups and total failure of control-rod and safety-rod actuation mechanisms in the full-open position. One example is the Modular High Temperature Gas Cooled Reactor advocated by General Atomics. There are disadvantages to inherently safe reactors, however - typically they are size limited (MHTGR grosses 40 MWth, I think) so large outputs mean several reactors in a rather large complex - one that allows each reactor the heat dissipation radius it needs to fulfill the promise of inherent safety. The real estate required may not be a problem, but to achieve economies of scale requires true mass production of reactor modules, not custom jobs like most current nuclear reactors. Another difficulty of the MHTGR is that it requires enriched fuel - about 30% - and very demanding fuel pellet processing, which complicates reprocessing. On the other hand, burnup is higher... Marc de Piolenc Philippines Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Gas Producer Miscellany
Last weekend we finally moved all but one of my file cabinets out of my container and into my home, and I've spent my "free" time since then chipping rust, repairing pendaflex folders and having more fun than a kit at Christmas. It has been over ten years since all my files were housed where I live, so I've actually had time to forget some of the stuff I accumulated. The result is a series of happy reunions. My "Gas Producers" file contains the following which might interest the group: Tiangco, Valentino M.: A Rice Hull Gas Producer (California Engineer, Feb 1989) A chapter entitled: Gas Producers and Gas Cleaning, by J.C. van der Hoeven, extracted from an unidentified book. Looks like 1940's era at the earliest, because it discusses electrostatic precipitators for soot scrubbing. Excerpts from a DoE report entitled Producer Gas Technology Applied to Wood Utilization, by Walter W. Gunkel (DOE/R2/05045--T1, DE85 013568) Excerpts of a DoE report entitled Conversion of Forest Residues to a Methane-Rich Gas, Phase Completion Report, March 1986 (PNL--5798-1, DE86 008519). This study was aimed at developing the use of catalysts to make gasification more efficient. In particular, they were adapting a process developed at Battelle for coal gasification, that involved saturing the coal with CaO at high temperature, to wood and agwaste gasification. The usual Mother Earth News article "They run their truck on wood!" Some articles and news items from Cogeneration magazine on gasifier-based cogen schemes. If anybody gets excited about the above, I'll be happy to scan and post. Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Pollution-free car
Steve wrote: "the point is, if you generate 1kw from solar, shouldn't you store 80% in a battery (ev) instead of 30% in a hydrogen tank (fuel cell ev)?" That should be kilowatt-hours, rather than kilowatts, since we're talking energy rather than power. 1. You'd be darned lucky to actually store 80% of the generated juice in a battery - or rather, you might store 80%, but you won't get that much back and still have reasonable battery life. That's in addition to the weight and cost penalties of batteries, which still have very low energy storage densities. 2. Electrolysis units can be run up to .90+ efficiency if the current density is kept low - it's a tradeoff between capital cost of the electrolysis plant and efficiency, as a more efficient plant is more expensive to build. Of course there's a penalty for compression or whatever you do with the hydrogen (best is a fuel bladder at or near atmospheric pressure, but that appeals only to airship maniacs like myself), but even that doesn't drop you to 30% net. based on heat. If your goal is electricity, you can run hydrogen through a fuel battery and recover as much as 85% of input energy in a practical road machine. In terms of capital cost, electrolytic hydrogen makes very good sense as an energy storage medium for power plants with intermittent output (solar and wind) if stored in gasometers or bladders, especially if there's a market or a profitable use for the oxygen (an oxygen-enriched gasifier, for example). With compression ...? Best, Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Additives - was Re: [biofuel] Soybean Oil in Jet Fuels
Keith Addison wrote: > ASomeone's been trying to sell me on an additive > to reduce NOx. Apparently it does indeed reduce NOx, and > simultaneously CO, but otoh I think NOx is an overblown problem, I'm > always a bit suspicious when people chuck the NOx objection at > biodiesel. Better to debunk the thing rather - "solving" it via an > additive lends it too much credence: ie, biodiesel ain't no use on > its own unless you use an additive. Correct. NOx is not caused by high combustion temperatures, but by "crevice combustion" - combustion in tight spaces with a high ratio of cooled perimeter to volume - which entails rapid quenching and "freezing" of the back-reaction which otherwise converts NOx back to free nitrogen and oxygen. Southwest Research Institute proved this at least twenty years ago, in research sponsored by DoE. I read the report that long ago, and it could have already been some years old at that time. What this means is that NOx is a combustion chamber and piston design problem; SRI showed that relatively minor changes in piston crown design reduced NOx significantly in their test engines. Leaving out crevice combustion, diesels should have lower NOx emissions than spark-ignition engines because their pressure "spike" is not as pronounced. Marc de Piolenc Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] diesel history correction
Steve Spence wrote: "That still does not take away from his demonstration in 1900 at the worlds fair on peanut oil and his quote in 1911 "the Diesel engine can be fed with vegetable oils and would help considerably in the development of agriculture of the countries which use it." and in 1912 " the use of vegetable oils for engine fuels may seem insignificant today. But such oils may become in the course of time as important as petroleum and the coal tar products of the present time."" I wasn't trying to take anything away from Dr. D. or his advocacy of veggie oil fuels - only to make the point that peanut oil wasn't the first fuel he chose (as originally claimed), nor even the second. Interesting that his conversion to vegetable oil occurred at a time when Germany had no domestic crude oil production and her tropical colonies were in question, and that a big push on synthesis of crude oil from coal, and another to consolidate her colonies in the Tropics, began shortly thereafter. I wonder if there's a connection? Any info on connections between Diesel (and/or his sponsors MAN and Krupp) and the Deutsch-Ost-Afrika Gesellschaft or the Deutscher Kolonial Verein? Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] diesel history correction
Finally found my reference, namely Diesel Aviation Engines by Wilkinson: "Abundance of coal in Germany and the idea of utilizing coal dust for fuel undoubtedly influenced Dr. Diesel when he applied for a patent. The first one issued to him, Patent No. 67,207 dated February 28, 1892, specified an engine with compression ignition using coal dust as fuel. In 1893, at the age of 35, Dr. Diesel published a theoretical treatise entitled: "The Theory and Construction of a Practical Heat Engine." In the same year he began his experiments at Augsburg... After three years work, in 1896 Dr. Diesel completed his first engine design to use coal dust for fuel and air compressed to high pressure and temperature to ignite it. This engine exploded and nearly killed him but he persevered and built another engine using petroleum as fuel. His second engine built in 1897 was successful..." Marc de Piolenc Iligan Philippines Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Algae
An NREL document lists the following publications about microalgae as fuel sources. I thought I had a DOE document on the subject, but I can't find it now. Brown,L.M.(1993).ãBiodiesel from Microalgae: Complementarity in a Fuel Development Strategy. äProceedings: First Biomass Conference of the Americas, Vol.II. NREL/CP-200-5768. Golden,CO:National Renewable Energy Laboratory; pp.902-909. Brown,L.M.;Sprague,S.;Jarvis,E.E.;Dunahay,T.G.;Roessler,P.G.; Zeiler,K.G.(January 1994).Biodiesel from Aquatic Species Project Report: FY 1993.NREL/TP-422-5726.Golden,CO:National Renewable Energy Laboratory. Chelf,P.;Brown,L.M.;Wyman,C.E.(1993).ãAquatic Biomass Resources and Carbon Dioxide Trapping.äBiomass and Bioenergy,Vol.4,No.3, pp.175-183 Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Diesel history correction
"Dr. Rudolf Diesel developed the diesel engine in the late 1890's in order to use peanut oil as fuel." WRONG. Diesel's original plan was to use powdered coal. Liquid fuels were first used in compression-ignition engines in France by Capitaine, but the engines have always been called "Diesel" nonetheless. Peanut oil, indeed! Where do they get this stuff? Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Petroleum Subsidies?
Much has been said on this list about petroleum being covertly subsidized, but without specifics. I would be grateful for a reference to information on this topic, because I am unable to reconcile the claim that petroleum is the beneficiary of hidden subsidies with the high rate of excise taxation of petroleum products. The easiest way to subsidize something, after all, is tax relief. Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Yeast grown for fodder in old USSR - on wood waste
>From another list: From: Michael Karpov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "Now I would like to propose 2 themes for discussion. 1. We have a very big yeast factories in ex-USSR, yeasts were cultivated on wood hydrolysates or oil fractions. This industry gave up to 1 million tones of fodder protein per year, but this protein had a very unpleasant toxic and allergic effects. Latest research found that it was caused by wild yeast strains that did replace cultural yeasts in reactors after 2-3 months of cultivation! Thus, in truth cultural high productive yeasts couldn't be used in industrial systems because the system is not stabile. In this correlation I would like to ask Bachtar Bakrie if he had the experiments of A.niger culture using during 5-6 passes on the non-sterile substrates? Farmers can't buy a pure starter culture every week, they will use available filaments of the fungus - like it's when we make a tempeh fermentation." Thought some might be interested. Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Alcoholysis II
The same package from my sister that brought Newman's treatise on Glycerol brought Ralston's _Fatty Acids and their Derivatives_(Wiley, 1948), which has this to say about alcoholysis (p. 498): "Ester interchange or alcoholysis is frequently employed for the preparation of the alkyl esters of the fatty acids from their corresponding glycerides. The advantages of this method are obvious, since it not necessary to isolate the acids and the subsequent purification can be made through the esters. As previously stated, this method is often used for the determination of the component acids of the naturally occurring triglycerides. Haller (37) was among the first to observe that the fats are converted into the corresponding esters and glycerol when heated with alcohols, such as methanol, in the presence of 1-2% of hydrochloric acid. Although all the glycerides can undergo alcoholysis, those of low molecular weight are more reactive, and it has been observed that fatty substances which are soluble in alcohol are more readily alcoholyzed than those which are insoluble. The use of solvents for the fat generally increases the rate of alcoholysis. Acid catalysts, such as sulfuric acid or benzenesulfonic acid, can be successfully employed (28). Since the triglycerides are generally insoluble in alcohol, the progress of the reaction may be followed by observing the increasing solubility of the ester mixture, the reaction being completed when the mixture becomes completely homogeneous. Castor oil is easily alcoholyzed oweing to its solubility in alcohol, and the esterification of castor oil by methyl, propyl, or isopropyl alcohol yields the corresponding ester of ricinoleic acid together with small quantities of other esters (29). Elsdon (30) has studied the alcoholysis of coconut oil by methanol in the presence of hydrochloric acid and has employed this method for the estimation of component acids. The direct conversion of the fats into their ethyl esters has been shown to be a stepwise process (31), since partially alcoholyzed mixtures contain both mono- and diglycerides together with the alkyl esters. Thus, the partial alcoholysis of 3000 g. of tristearin with ethanol in the presence of hydrochloric acid was observed to yield 400 g. of unchanged ester, 300 g. of distearin, 200 g. of monostearin, and 1200 g. of ethyl stearate. Reactions of alcoholysis are catalyzed by alkaline hydroxides, and it has been stated (32) that only small amounts of soaps are formed if anhydrous conditions are employed. Alcoholysis in the presence of alkaline hydroxides has also been observed (33) to proceed stepwise with the intermediate formation of both mono- and diglycerides. The preparation of the alkyl esters by the alcoholysis of glycerides under pressure has been patented (34). Detailed procedures for the preparation and purification of methyl myristate and palmitate by the alcoholysis of bayberry wax, and of ethyl caprylate, caprate, laurate and myristate by the alcoholysis of coconut oil, has been published (35). It must be borne in mind that ester interchange is characteristic of all the fatty acid esters and is not limited to the glycerides or waxes. As a means of preparing the alkyl esters, however, such reactions are generally confined to the glycerides because of their ready availability. " I've read something about an acid-catalyzed process for making biodiesel, but no details were given and I can't find the reference now. Is any work still being done with that? Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Alcoholysis
This is from page 126 of the book _Glycerol_, by A.A. Newman (CRC, 1968): "(iii) Alcoholysis Alcoholysis, which involves the replacement of glycerol in the glyceride molecule by a cheaper alcohol, such as methanol or ethanol, has represented a means of obtaining glycerol in high concentration and purity but such a process is only operated under the unusual circumstances of requiring fatty acids in the form of their ethyl or methyl esters, as in the manufacture of fatty alcohols by high-pressure hydrogenation. The glycerol is recovered by evaporating the alcohol; complete removal sometimes offers difficulties and such crude glycerols are liable to contain some alcohol. " That last part won't be news to anyone on this list, but it's the business about "unusual circumstances" that intrigues me. I didn't know that transesterification was an intermediate step in converting fatty acids to fatty alcohols, but that being the case, why would the circumstances be unusual? Fatty alcohols are used in detergent manufacture - surely that was already well established in 1968? Perhaps it's the high-pressure hydrogenation process that's unusual? Anybody have the answer? If I'm reading this right, there should be considerable information in the detergent production literature that is directly transferable to what we are doing (or in my case, trying to do). Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Philippines Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Cheek to complain
Actually, Americans and Europeans pay the producer prices that are more or less the same. The difference between what Europeans pay and what Americans pay at the pump is ALL TAX. If our self-righteous interlocutor wants to make a virtue of being oppressed, let him. He pays regardless - he might as well feel good about it. Marc de Piolenc > I dont know how you lot have the cheek to complain - you pay bugger all for > petrol. > We in the UK pay the equivilent of $6 and have been paying those sorts of > prices for years. > this is also typical of the rest of Europe. > > We just drive smaller economical well designed efficient engines rather than > gas guzzling piles of crap to get around it. ... It's programming, me lad. Programming. Americans have been programmed that they have a God given right to "prosperity," and the politicians do their level best to shore up the illusion. The vast majority of US consumers have and want no concept of "USER PAYS." It's evident in our clothing costs, as we tacitly support child labor and sweat shops. It's evident in our electricity costs. Its evident in our produce, meat, poultry and dairy prices. I'ts evident in our petrol costs as well. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Alcohol from Waste Paper?
Some tantalizing words from How to Make your Own Alcohol Fuels, by Larry W. Carley (2nd Ed: Tab Books, 1981): "Starches and cellulose can be broken down by acid hydrolysis or enzyme hydrolysis. With acid hydrolysis, the feedstock material is ground up and mixed with a dilute acid solution to form a slurry. The acid then attacks the chemical bonds that hold the starch or cellulose molecule together, breaking the molecules apart and thereby freeing the simple sugars into solution. The sugar can then be fermented and made into alcohol. In commercial applications, the raw feedstock is ground up and mixed with water in a ratio of about 10 parts liquid to 1 part solid. The slurry is then mixed with an 8 percent to 10 percent weak acid solution and cooked under pressure at about 360 degrees F to 440 degrees F. The result, in the case of scrap paper, is conversion of about 80 percent of the cellulose into fermentable sugar. This process has proven itself to be practical and economical in large-scale applications..." No references, of course. Anybody know what process he's referring to? Marc de Piolenc Iligan Philippines Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] R-11, R-12, R-13 (?) synthesis
Somebody was asking about availability of R-11. I'm still working on that - basically, the one refrigeration expert I know here is so busy I can't get hold of him. I've dug up info on synthesis of the methane-derivative (single-carbon) halocarbon refrigerants. According to Karrer's comprehensive book on Organic Chemistry (4th English Edition, Elsevier, 1950), they are synthesized from carbon tetrachloride. "Carbon tetrachloride, on treatment with hydrogen fluoride and antimony pentachloride gives CCl3F [R-11] and CCl2F2 [R-12] which are used as refrigerants." He doesn't mention CClF3 (R-13), but it seems logical to expect some of that to be produced, too. The products have very different boiling points, so they can presumably be separated by fractional distillation. By the way, I've finally figured out what the designations mean. The first digit is the number of carbons, the second the number of fluorine atoms. Where does carbon tet. come from? It can be synthesized from carbon disulfide and chlorine in the presence of a halogen carrier (e.g. antimony pentachloride, aluminum chloride, iodine...): CS2 + 3 Cl2 --> CCl4 + S2Cl2, or by reaction with sulphur monochloride in the presence of a catalyst (iron, ferric chloride or "other metals" - Karrer) CS2 + 2 S2Cl2 --> CCl4 + 6S Note that the second synthesis path consumes sulphur monochloride, which is a product in the first reaction. Presumably the two processes could be combined to give an overall reaction: CS2 + 2 Cl2 --> CCl4 + 2S And no doubt you're wondering where carbon disulfide comes from. Well, Karrer says: "Carbon disulphide...is prepared by passing sulphur vapour over heated coke (800-900 deg)." I included the carbon disulfide and carbon tet. syntheses only for completeness. Both are widely used industrial solvents, unavailable for years to consumers because of the Nanny State, but still available to industry. I will try to get more details of the R-xx synthesis - how much of each reagent, what temperature, is the pentachloride consumed, is free chlorine produced, etc. Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] alcohol from waste paper?
Todd wrote: "Could you give some clarification as to theoretical yields of ethanol, methanol and other "value added" byproducts per metric ton of paper feedstock in the scenario you mention below, as well as energy inputs? One could use yield data from virgin pulpwood as "baseline" and venture forward." One could indeed. The data are in the documents I forwarded to Keith yesterday. Doubtless they will soon be available on the Web. Basically, yields achieved with mineral acids are fractions of theoretical. "Also, I must ask why you wish to lash out at those who initiate mandatory recycling, when the eventual unintended consequences occur. Had such programs not been instituted, none of the benefits over the last 1/4 century would have been realized either." You make the common error of assuming that if it isn't obligatory, it won't get done. When you make it worth somebody's while to do something, he does it. When you compel him, you are practising slavery. There is also the problem of bureaucratic, one-size-MUST-fit-all "solutions" to problems often created by bureaucracy in the first place. Breathing is beneficial, but you can bet that if it were mandatory, half of us would be hyperventilating while the rest died of asphyxia. "The reason for price drops for retrieved waste paper is that the % of recovery relative to pulp industry re-use is imbalanced, creating a glut." And what caused that, I wonder? You blame the industry for not conforming its actions to political mandate - I blame the mandate. "The problem has never been with recovery, but gearing up and reconfiguring the pulp and paper industry. They have been petulant and, for the most part, fought the process virulently for 25 years, claiming that retrofits were too expensive until maximum mechanical utility had been realized on existing plants." Ever wondered whether they might have been telling the truth? Just a thought. "Even when the old plants "die," few serious industry attempts are made to configure new plants to maximize on retrieved fiber sources. It's not that the opportunities and technologies don't exist, rather the lack of responsibility and vision." Obviously what's needed is for farsighted, clear-thinking, enlightened people like yourself to move in and take over. I can't wait. Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Philippines Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] More on biomass ethanol
A search for "Prodor process" OR "Rheinau process" turned up the following, among others: http://dieoff.org/page201.htm http://newcrop.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/duke_energy/Hibiscus_cannabinus.html Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Alcohol from waste paper?
In translating and collating what I have in my library about hydrolyzing wood cellulose to get fermentable sugars, it occurred to me that there is a much better source of cellulose than wood, and that using it would allow two birds to be killed with one stone. I refer of course to waste paper. Most waste paper is newsprint, which is short-fiber "mechanical" pulp made from ground wood. When repulped, it has to be mixed with a large proportion of new fiber to make decent paper because of the short fibers. It also contains a lot of lignin and other unstable compounds, so that paper made from it is unstable as well as weak. With mandatory recycling going into effect in many places, the "price" of recycled newsprint is going negative in some areas - that is, the pulp mills must be paid to take it. Other uses are being found for it - mulching, insulation - but basically it goes begging. Now imagine a paper-alcohol plant attached to a biodiesel plant. Not only can the ethanol be used for biodiesel production, but the residue still contains some lignin, which can give methanol on dry distillation. The unfermentable sugars give furfural and other compounds useful in organic synthesis. Everybody wins: - community recycling projects can start getting paid again (and the politicians who pushed through mandatory recycling without considering the consequences can start breathing again). - ethanol is produced without any impact on agricultural commodity prices. Best to all, Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Alcohol from wood
Dear Listmates, The recent discussion of wood hydrolysis reminded me that I had promised to translate the relevant parts of Boullanger's treatise from French into English; this I am finally doing. I also found good information on saccharification in Haegglund's treatise on wood chemistry. I will scan those pages, which are already in English. To whom should I send this stuff for archiving? I keep forgetting. Best, Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Philippines Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] What is "hyson"
This is quoted from the "reverse fuel cell" article posted earlier: "-- dividing hydrogen isotopes to remove deuterium and hyson out of cooling circuits of nuclear reactors" what the heck is "hyson?" Has tritium been renamed? Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] "We don't need no..."
"Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: "Dr. Nering made no claims or stipulations about population growth in his analogy. Rather, he used actual estimated increases in global energy consumption. The 5% growth per annum which he "assumed" is a global reality. Whether the percentage remains, increases or decreases from 5% was not his primary point. (Mind you, if the percentage changes, it will be by human choices, no matter what direction it turns.) The increase in global consumption is not only due to population increase, but flat out consumption increase by other countries adopting western "uncivilization" consumption patterns." No matter how you slice and dice it, 5% growth IS a simple exponential, because that growth is at least implicitly compound (if linear, you have to specify a base). And assuming a continued simple exponential growth of ANYTHING is palpable nonsense. You can have a lot of fun demonstrating that the Universe will be devoured in X years, but all you're really demonstrating is that the model is invalid. No doubt the students will remember - I only hope they remember to question! Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Rethinking Economies of Scale
"Dick Carlstein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Keith: "A couple of things to add. Biodiesel may or may not be feasible at the individual small-peasant level" *or necessary, i might add... bullocks, mules, and such are known to have little use for biodiesel, being programmed to run better on biomass. Carabaos work fine for tilling and short-range transport of the harvest, but farm-to-market transportation is by motor truck - there is no alternative. That is where fuel costs come in for everybody. If you have your own 1940 Dodge 5/4T and it's running, you buy the fuel; if you hire it done you pay the trucker to buy the fuel. *i understand that coco water alky gives you an unbearable hangover. a shot of biodiesel 'the morning after the night before' might help straighten things out. it should clear your brain, as well as other parts of your humanity. Coconut water is not fermented to a beverage as far as I know. You are probably thinking of tuba or arrak, which is made from the nectar of the coconut flower. *folks, i wish we'd get REAL on this. there's ~ one thousand million subsistence farming operations going on in this planet, and none of them has a tractor, or anything else that runs on biodiesel, cocokero, or whatever. See above. Any farmer who wants to market part of his crop ends up using the roads, directly or indirectly. And that means motor fuel. He might as well be making it, if he can make it for less than the cash cost of the fuel he would otherwise have to purchase. Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] We don't need no stinking efficiency!!!!
This article makes the Malthusian error of assuming that a quantity will continue to grow along a simple exponential, when in fact real living systems always level off through interaction with others. Using the same simplistic, pseudo-scientific arguments, one can easily "prove" that Mankind is already extinct. Very silly - and discredits the idea of resource conservation when the kids realize that the argument is bogus. Glad I didn't have this guy for a teacher. Marc de Piolenc Message: 4 Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 08:29:54 +1200 From: "David Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: We don't need no stinking efficiency (?) Todd, A good article and one everyone on this group should read. I recently said it is estimated that if we keep finding oil at the same rate it is estimated that we have a 70 year supply but that I believe we could halve that with the increasing number of vehicles and countries like China coming on stream. While I have never sat down and done the maths the examples below show that I may not be too far off the mark. B.r., David - Original Message - From: Appal Energy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 2:00 AM Subject: [biofuel] We don't need no stinking efficiency (?) > New York Times, OP-ED, June 4, 2001 > http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/04/opinion/04NERI.html > > The Mirage of a Growing Fuel Supply > By EVAR D. NERING > > COTTSDALE, Ariz. - When I discussed the exponential function in the > first-semester calculus classes that I taught, I invariably used consumption > of a nonrenewable natural resource as an example. Since we are now engaged > in a national debate about energy policy, it may be useful to talk about the > mathematics involved in making a rational decision about resource use. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz]
Tell us more! Marc de Piolenc Dick Carlstein wrote: > > ken, we are presently delivering small (800 liters/day in two batches) > biodiesel plants in the argentina-uruguay area, and will be happy to > exchange info on these. oil used is mainly sunflower. cheers dick. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Rethinking economy of scale
Dear listmates, There has been traffic on both lists about the need to scale up production of biofuels to "economical" levels, and that has triggered much thinking on my part. Until now I, too, had been concentrating on industrial scale processes - admittedly still not on a very large industrial scale, because the logistics of coconut-based industry here limit plant size - feeling that smaller scale processing would be uneconomical. The recent traffic forced me to rethink my position. In thanks, I would like to share the result of my cogitations. When a person with surplus wealth considers his investment options, he has a wide range of choices. His surplus is cash, or convertible to cash, and therefore highly mobile. For him, ROI is the preponderant criterion. When a farmer with little cash and growing cash expenses considers investing his time and effort, the criteria are fundamentally different. His labor is not readily convertible to cash - that's why he's poor! - so his best bet is usually to use labor to reduce cash expenditures, e.g. for fuel. If he is growing the usual crops - banana and coconut, he is fortunate in being "labor rich," as little labor is required to cultivate these crops most of the year. Thus he has time, and with a little scrounged equipment and a lot of effort he can make small quantities of high-grade fuel. An economic analysis written from the point of view of somebody investing cash to get cash would prove that this activity is "uneconomical," but economics is the science of human action (Ludwig von Mises' phrase), and different humans have different needs and resources. If our hypothetical farmer can save cash by investing labor, that is "profit" for him regardless of what hypothetical cash value an analyst might set on his labor. To put numbers to it, if a farmer can get diesel fuel currently costing 15 pesos per liter at the pump with a CASH outlay smaller than 15 pesos per liter, it is a winning proposition for him. I haven't got prices for methanol yet, so I don't know whether that question has a positive answer for true (transesterified) biodiesel, but if the pseudo-biodiesel that consists of a blend of kerosene and coconut oil is considered the answer is unmistakeably YES. Kero costs less at the pump here than diesel, and when blended 20:1 with zero-CASH-cost coconut oil from the farm the cash saving is considerable. Even a sharp rise in kero cost will not change this result because the weighting factor is 5%. Furthermore, the effect on this poor debtor nation's economy can be considerable, regardless of the scale of individual efforts. Filipinos are very quick to emulate something that works, and a few liters a day, multiplied by hundreds of thousands - eventually of farmers, comes to a very large reduction in petroleum purchases on the international spot market - a very desirable result. What is more, a small change in balance-of-payments can have a very strong cascade effect on the domestic economy, as cash saved is invested in local manufactures. It is essentially that process that changed the USA from a primarily agrarian nation into an industrial superpower in two generations! Now the question is: how to make this feasible? There must be standard methods, easily implemented at small scale, for refining coconut oil and/or biodiesel to a standard that is compatible with existing equipment, and there must be standard tests, easily and quickly carried out, for verifying that this has been accomplished. I would like to challenge interested listers to do as I do, tabulating the key acceptability criteria and searching for cheap and reliable methods for determining a sample's conformity to those criteria. Viscosity I think is easy. Water content, free acids and alkalis, etc. may require considerable thought and experiment - or has this already been worked out? Best to all, Marc de Piolenc Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Rethinking economy of scale
Dear listmates, There has been traffic on both lists about the need to scale up production of biofuels to "economical" levels, and that has triggered much thinking on my part. Until now I, too, had been concentrating on industrial scale processes - admittedly still not on a very large industrial scale, because the logistics of coconut-based industry here limit plant size - feeling that smaller scale processing would be uneconomical. The recent traffic forced me to rethink my position. In thanks, I would like to share the result of my cogitations. When a person with surplus wealth considers his investment options, he has a wide range of choices. His surplus is cash, or convertible to cash, and therefore highly mobile. For him, ROI is the preponderant criterion. When a farmer with little cash and growing cash expenses considers investing his time and effort, the criteria are fundamentally different. His labor is not readily convertible to cash - that's why he's poor! - so his best bet is usually to use labor to reduce cash expenditures, e.g. for fuel. If he is growing the usual crops - banana and coconut, he is fortunate in being "labor rich," as little labor is required to cultivate these crops most of the year. Thus he has time, and with a little scrounged equipment and a lot of effort he can make small quantities of high-grade fuel. An economic analysis written from the point of view of somebody investing cash to get cash would prove that this activity is "uneconomical," but economics is the science of human action (Ludwig von Mises' phrase), and different humans have different needs and resources. If our hypothetical farmer can save cash by investing labor, that is "profit" for him regardless of what hypothetical cash value an analyst might set on his labor. To put numbers to it, if a farmer can get diesel fuel currently costing 15 pesos per liter at the pump with a CASH outlay smaller than 15 pesos per liter, it is a winning proposition for him. I haven't got prices for methanol yet, so I don't know whether that question has a positive answer for true (transesterified) biodiesel, but if the pseudo-biodiesel that consists of a blend of kerosene and coconut oil is considered the answer is unmistakeably YES. Kero costs less at the pump here than diesel, and when blended 20:1 with zero-CASH-cost coconut oil from the farm the cash saving is considerable. Even a sharp rise in kero cost will not change this result because the weighting factor is 5%. Furthermore, the effect on this poor debtor nation's economy can be considerable, regardless of the scale of individual efforts. Filipinos are very quick to emulate something that works, and a few liters a day, multiplied by hundreds of thousands - eventually of farmers, comes to a very large reduction in petroleum purchases on the international spot market - a very desirable result. What is more, a small change in balance-of-payments can have a very strong cascade effect on the domestic economy, as cash saved is invested in local manufactures. It is essentially that process that changed the USA from a primarily agrarian nation into an industrial superpower in two generations! Now the question is: how to make this feasible? There must be standard methods, easily implemented at small scale, for refining coconut oil and/or biodiesel to a standard that is compatible with existing equipment, and there must be standard tests, easily and quickly carried out, for verifying that this has been accomplished. I would like to challenge interested listers to do as I do, tabulating the key acceptability criteria and searching for cheap and reliable methods for determining a sample's conformity to those criteria. Viscosity I think is easy. Water content, free acids and alkalis, etc. may require considerable thought and experiment - or has this already been worked out? Best to all, Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Coconut oil
Hanns Wetzel wrote: "Then there is the juice, which apparently gets thrown away. When the coconut is still green, the juice (I refuse to call it milk) contains much sugar." Do not get coconut water or juice confused with milk. The milk is expressed from the grated meat and contains oil, while the water simply pours out when the nut is opened. The water is an excellent beverage - refreshing and restorative. When I climb to inspect my local Rotary Club's reforestation project on Mount Agad-Agad, I drink one or two nuts' worth at the top to get the oomph to get back down! I have eaten an excellent sherbet in Guadeloupe that was made from it, though I can't find it here. It can also be used to make vinegar, and coco vinegar is generally used here (wine vinegar is imported, expensive and essentially a gourmet item). Presumably, if acetic fermentation is possible, then alcoholic fermentation is, too. Must get some buko juice and yeast and find out... "What happens to this sugar as the nut matures and the endosperm thickens and hardens? Does it get converted to fat? Or is enough still present that it can be fermented to produce ethanol?" Good question. Easily settled, too. I have access to both mature (lov) and young (buko) coconuts here. Yeast should not be hard to find, if I'm willing to settle for bread yeast rather than brewer's yeast. Time for a comparison test after I finish with the June issue of the magazine... "Finally, as I mentioned in a previous message, can ethanol be derived from veggie oil (perhaps through intermediate trans esterification) just like gasoline is derived from crude fossil oil?" The chemistry of that doesn't work out too well. You can get glycerol (a trihydroxy alcohol) from the oil by hydrolysis (such as occurs in soap manufacture), and the fatty acids can be converted to fatty alcohols, but these will be higher alcohols, not ethanol. Best, Marc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] more on Jerusalem artichokes
Subject: Re: More on Jerusalem artichokes
Steve Spence wrote:
"my father in law just plowed under 2 acres of Jerusalem artichokes.
they
keep coming up and he can't get rid of them :-("
The books do say that volunteer plants are a problem with all the
sunflower family.
Wish he could send the tubers over here - I can't find any starter
stock!
Marc de Piolenc
Iligan, Philippines
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
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[biofuel] swirl chamber diesel
"David Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Attn: Steve, Dana, or others, Can someone please fully explain what a 1) Swirl chamber diesel, and 2) diesel with Precombustion chamber is/are and how they differ from a standard Direct injection diesel? A bit out of my depth with these two as I am only conversant with D.I. diesels. A swirl chamber diesel is any diesel that forces the incoming air charge to enter tangentially, then accelerates the swirl during compression, usually by confining the charge to a crevice in the piston crown. This artifice is typically used to speed up combustion in direct injection diesels by promoting rapid mixing during injection. A prechamber diesel has a bulb-shaped auxiliary combustion chamber connected by a narrow throat to the main combustion chamber above the piston. Injection occurs into the prehamber. The small amount of oxygen in the prechamber partially burns the fuel, allowing the energy from that partial combustion to expel the rest of the fuel vigorously into the main combustion chamber, promoting rapid mixing and combustion. Some of the fuel energy is lost to throttling in the prechamber nozzle, but the system allows fairly high speed operation with modest injector performance and generally allows a "sloppy" engine to run okay. Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Mobile BD plant loading/ unloading
Dana Linscott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: "The sliding frame lowboys I was referring to in an earlier post are used for transport of large farm equipment in the US and are not the types later posters described. These are very simple to build and sturdy. They do not have drop tails but rather are flat. The axles are mounted on a sliding subframe which by unlatching the pins holding it to the main frame and dropping in pins to prevent wheel rotation allow the main frame to be slid back by backing the tow vehicle." Bloody brilliant. And besides cheapness, the obvious advantage over side-loaders is the possibility of extracting a container from tight places. "The majority of the trailers I have seen have high flotation tires(to allow use on unimproved roads and fields) and a simple but sturdy suspension. While not designed for high speed I have used them myself at 50 mph which I would consider the max top speed." This is the part I don't get. Conventional low-pressure tires tend to be large in diameter, which in turn requires a lot of clearance from the ground. How do they get around this? Not that it really matters, now that I think of it - it's easy to carry matting or planks along for moving the trailer a short distance off a compacted surface. "You may also wish to consider reinforcing the container and attaching three legged supports near the corners which could be swung down or carried along and assembled when the unit is moved on a flatbed." As long as it's handled by the corners, reinforcement should not be necessary, so I would just make the supports removable and attach them to the lower corners for handling. I like this idea - I was fumbling for something similar but could not get the stability I wanted. Low trailer plus tripod wins the day! " Simple hydraulic jacks could then be used to raise the container up the required few inches to a foot so that the trailer could be pulled out." That part's easy - it was lowering the container to the pad afterward that I could not figure out. Building up the pad to meet the container, plus a low trailer height, solve this problem. "If you constructed a trailer which allows the side of the container to extend out a foot or so from the edge of the trailer you could even simply use hydraulic jacks and blocking to raise and lower the container. This is what I did for my houseboat (14 ton) and after a little practice I could unload it in about half an hour by myself. 15 minutes with help. 2 jacks= $60us and blocking (cut up old railroad ties) $80us. Set directly upon the blocking it is quite stable." As long as one is building equipment for the purpose, it makes sense to do the tripod thing and save a lot of labor and danger! "Unless you have several containers to move I wonder if your best bet would not be to simply construct a robust trailer and leave the unit on it. " Exactly what my father-in-law wants to do with my personal trailer. As for the BD plant, it probably makes more sense here to build it on a trailer in the first place. Still, containers have obvious advantages in any scheme that involves centralized production of plants, which might very well be needed for viability in the long term. "Our group has decided to use a heavy 20' flatbed trailer and weld reinforcing "skids" to the bottom of the container which allow the wheel wells of the trailer to fit under the bottom of the container. This will allow the trailer to be used for other things as well (gathering WVO). We will then construct a low platform (about 3' high)with railroad ties and soil at each place we intend to place the container. The container will simply be winched on and off the trailer." The skids will of course make the container non-shippable by ocean - at least not as a standard container. I gather that doesn't matter. "If need be we can simply pull up the timbers and scatter the soil to abandon a site...and reuse the timbers. " Exactly. Again, many thanks! Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Canola warning
Kirk wrote: "Beware of Canola Oil, Canola Oil is an Industrial Oil, Not Fit For Human Consumption. Here is a summary of a few facts regarding Canola Oil: It is genetically engineered rapeseed." Wrong, as pointed out by another listmember. "Canada paid the FDA the sum of $50 million to have rape registered" Unlikely, as no prior approval would have been required from the FDA, so why pay them anything? "Rapeseed is a lubricating oil used by small industry. It has never been meant for human consumption." The following is from Purseglove: Tropical Crops (1968) Quote: Brassica napus L. (2n+38) RAPE Rape was in ancient cultivation in the Mediterranean region. It is grown in Europe as green fodder for livestock and for its seeds from which rape or colza oil is extracted, for which purpose it is also grown in Japan. The residual rape-seed cake is fed to livestock. Rape oil is edible; it is used for greasing loaves of bread before baking. It is also used as an illuminant and lubricant and for soap manufacture. Rape is not much grown in the tropics... End Quote. This information is somewhat out of date, as "huile de colza" is now a popular salad oil in France, and I would guess elsewhere in the Common Market. Marc de Piolenc Iligan Philippines Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Mobile BD plant loading/ unloading
Message: 1 Thanks for the continuing input to the container load/unload solution. It's really amazing how many ingenious ideas there are out there. For obvious reasons I favor solutions that don't require improvements at each drop site - there could be very many of those in a country where the longest distance that a coconut usually travels to market is a few miles! Lowboy trailers won't last long on Filipino roads, so they're out. But I am intrigued by one listmember's mentioning trucks or trailers with integral side-loading hydraulic lifts and support pads. I went back to my calcs that seemed to show that such things would be impractically heavy...and of course found an error. It turns out that, with outriggers extending eight feet to one side, such a truck could handle a 20 tonne container while weighing no more than four to eight tonnes itself, depending on weight distribution. With two axles on the semi-trailer and two support axles on the tractor, that is completely practical. OOF. > What David T is saying here makes a lot of > sense and is probably > the most appropriate to the Phillipines. If you make > a couple of H frames > complete with outrigger tripod stays, use a couple > of connectors to join the > 2 H frames together, and a couple of chain blocks, > you can drive to where > you want the container located, set up your H > frames, lift the container > about 6", drive the truck out, and lower the > container. Uplifting and > shifting the container is obviously the reverse. That makes a LOT of sense. I would only add baulks of timber to keep the frames from sinking into the soil, and some screw anchors and guys to keep the thing from racking. My father-in-law and I were sketching something with A-frames which ended up pretty unwieldly, then I tried something with jacks at all four lower corners, but there was just too much travel required. Your scheme should work. > - Original Message - > From: David Teal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 11:08 PM > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Mobile BD plant > > > > John Brewer helpfully wrote: > > "Self loading trailers are used extensivly in > Australia. > > > > The Lifting arms ar on hydrolic rams and can be > adjusted to suit 20 & 40 > > foot containers, and can postion a 20 footer to > correctly position the > > weight distribution on the trailer" > > When I was working in rural Africa, such luxuries > were unheard of, but we > > managed to unload some fair sized loads with > improvised, cheap but > effective > > means. One of the better systems was to erect two > guyed goalpost frames > > from stout wood poles. Chain block hoists were > lashed to the middle of > each > > crossbar. The delivery truck would drive under > the gantry, the load was > > raised, and the truck would back out or drive > through. The load could > then > > be lowered onto skids on the ground and be winched > (Tirfor etc.) to its > > desired location. > > Of course, the goalpost gantry has to be proof > loaded first with dummy > loads > > like plywood boxes filled with sand (easy to > create and dismantle with > hand > > tools only). I reckon this approach is still > appropriate to places like > > Philippines, Marc. Yesss. Of course, we'll probably still end up with semi-trailers because cargo containers are precious here, but you never know. In any case, one of these tricks will no doubt serve when I need to lift my own container to build up the pad a bit, as each rainy season sees the airspace under the container getting smaller... Best to all, Marc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] less acrolyn [sic] in the environment
"John Li" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: "I tried using the mixture of refined coconut oil (FFA removed) 20 parts to one part kerosene, just like what the Thai teacher did. The result was very impressive: smokeless and almost odorless. The smell is just like heating oil in the pan. There is no drop in the power. Then I referred my testing to the government agency. They told me that this is vey dangerous because it will emit acrolyn, which is a cancerous substance. They said that the correct process should be that the coconut oil undergo transesterification to produce methyl ester, which is safe. Any comments about this?" My comment is the obvious one - the substance they probably mean is acrolein (acrylic aldehyde), presumably from glycerine. If your engine is in good tune and at full temperature, I see no reason to expect significant aldehyde emissions. One of the beauties of diesels is that they operate at high excess air ratios, something gasoline (petrol) engines can't do. Glycerine and everything else should burn to carbon dioxide and water, with a small amount of nitrogen oxides emissions from crevice combustion. In short, normal diesel emissions. Finally, if your car were producing significant levels of acrolein in the exhaust, the stink would be overpowering, yet you describe it as "almost odorless." I wouldn't put too much credence in this "warning." It appears to be motivated by the fact that you're burning a mixture of veggie oil and kero, neither of which pays road fuel taxes in most countries. When a way is found to tax this blend as a motor fuel, the bureaucrats will no doubt discover that it's just fine after all. Best, Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Philippines PS. What are you paying for coconut oil? For kero? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Still plans
Tony Ackland wrote: "Are you refering to the "StillMaker" design ?" That's the one! "The site for it is http://stillmaker.dreamhost.com I also have a copy of it on my site; http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller/still.pdf"; Thanks - downloading now. "I also have other plans for stills, both pot and reflux; see http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller/designs.htm , and there are many pages of photos (http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller/others.htm) from which to draw inspiration and enthusiasm. See http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller/ for a full menu of my site." Thanks for all the leads. I now have a good basis for comparison with the industrial distillation manuals already in my collection, and those on their way. Best, Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Philippines cheers Tony Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Power plant builders look to vegetable oil for solutions
http://www.knoxstudio.com/shns/story.cfm?pk=VEGGIEPOWER-05-22-01&cat=AN [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] [Fwd: Production Mini-plants in mobile containers (Assembly Plant)]
Dear Listmates, This appeared out of the blue. Anybody know anything about this outfit? Should we turn them on to biofuels? Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Lanao del Norte Philippines > SCiNet Technological Support wrote: > > Dear Sir, > > Your inquiry was forwarded to these offices where we manage and > coordinate international development and operations for Production > Mini-plants in mobile containers. > > Currently, we are preparing the installation of Assembly Plants in > order to manufacture mobile production units on the site, region or > country where may be required. One of the most relevant features is > the fact that these assembly plants will be connected to the Operating > System for World Trade, a system managed by our corporation, with > access to more than 53 million raw materials, products and services > and automatic transactions for world trade. > > A three thousand square meter (33,000 square feet) Assembly Plant at > an average installation cost (depending on the country) of US$3 > million produces 12 Mini-plants/day. In the first phase the assembly > plant can generate 700 types of different products: Bakeries, Steel > Nails, Welding Electrodes, Tire Retreading, Reinforcement Bar Bending > for Construction Frameworks, Sheeting for Roofing, Ceilings and > Faades, Plated Drums, Aluminum Buckets, Polypropylene-injected > Housewares, Pressed Melamine Items (Glasses, Cups, Plates, Mugs, > Etc.), Mufflers, Electrically-welded Construction Meshes, Plastic Bags > and Packaging, Health Care Mobile Units, Medical Supplies (Hypodermic > Syringes, Hemostatic Clamps, etc.) > > Because of financial reasons, involving cost and social impact, the > right thing to do is to setting up assembly plants in the same > countries and regions, using local resources (labor, some equipment, > etc.) On the other hand, let's not forget that for these kind of > systems there is preferred financing, both private and public, as well > as from foundations, and so forth. > > Science Network is selecting --with high-priority character-- > potential partners, both investors and strategic, for the setting up > of assembly plants with a worldwide scope. > > In this respect, we are certain that important agreements can be > reached with institutions, organizations, governments, etc. in many > developing countries or in those with extremely serious social > problems where a system with these features is the most appropriate > solution and in many cases, the only one solution. > > You can obtain the document "Assembly Plant for production in series > of Mini-plants in mobile containers" which includes the main sections: > 1) Production Systems, 2) Program and Co-investment project, 3) > Characteristics of a prototype Assembler Plant, 4) The Operating > System for World Trade, 5) Characteristics of the Assembly Plant 6) > Investment, costs and profitability, 7) Co-investment (joint-venture), > Corporative structure and 8) Additional information and general > outlines of the Plant. > > It's a document in Adobe Acrobat format (38 pages, 2MB.) Assembly > Plant, Co-investment Program > > If you are interested in participate as an associate partner in your > region or country, do not hesitate to contact this office, attaching a > brief explanation of your ideas, requirements and/or projects. > > For more information, click here Production Mini-plants in mobile > containers > > Map with Countries and regions of the World included in the program of > Science Network«s > > SCiNet the Operating System for World Trade > > Sincerely yours, > > Ernesto S. Medina, SCiNet Technological Support > > SCiNet / IST, Tecnologas, S.A. > Communications Center: Padre Damian 40, Planta 1», 28036 Madrid, Spain > Tel.: (+34) 91-457-0001 Fax: (+34) 91-457-1168 > VideoConference (IP) +34-913005951 > E-mail: SCiNet Technological Support > > (C) 2001 SCiNet Corporation, All rights reserved > > -- > Download "Acrobat Reader" (Free new version 5.0) > -- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Glycerine
"Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: "I wouldn't bank on receipts for crude glycerin to make a business plan work. In house refining or conversion maybe." That's what I'm being told, so I'm looking into products FROM glycerine that have a larger market and/or higher market value. Acrolein (which you don't approve of, but which forms the basis of manufacture of all the ubiquitous acrylic resins) is relatively easily obtained by fermentation. Other products involving glycerine (I'm concentrating on resins suitable for varnishes and paints, for reasons I won't bore you with) are: furfural (derivable from cellulose) and glycerin give a black condensation polymer (Gabillion, 1931) polymerisation of acrolein in presence of alkali gives a white resin soluble in alcohol, acetone and some hydrocarbons. [Sounds like a replacement for shellac in alcohol solution, but it would also have the same problems as shellac when used on tabletops and floors.] A similar process applies to the fatty aldehydes, derivable from the fatty acids. glycerine condenses with various fatty acids in the presence of castor oil to form Bakelite-like plastics which, however, have a wider range of colors including white. (Gabillion again, no further details). Lots of heat and pressure needed in this process, as for Bakelite. "Nothing like building an entire city just to make biodiesel, eh?" Integrated manufacturing is a sine qua non for making it work economically, at least here in the humid tropics. The trick is coming up with efficient, small plants, or better yet mobile ones. Continuous processing and multiple use equipment are requisite. Lots of work to do here, but also huge potential rewards for the first to come up with a workable system. On another topic: has anybody worked out how many gallons of diesel fuel it takes to transport a gallon of fuel to a remote service station? The answer, I imagine, would be in something like gallons per thousand gallons transported, per mile, or the like. It seems to me that petroleum fuel savings in the sticks should count more than fuel saved near the refinery, but I need to put numbers to it. Best, Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] simple still Web site?
Somebody posted a link not too long ago to a Web site giving, in about 14 pages, a simple scheme for distilling alcohol. I downloaded the pdf version of the document, but the file is corrupt and I need to try again. This was not a site reachable from the Biofuels page. Help! Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Coconut oil
Gerry wrote: "Mature coconuts would be required as they have thicker kernel with have more oil after they have been sun dried." The plants I'm looking at are not based on copra (sundried coconut meat), but on fresh nuts. Are you quite sure that mature nuts have more oil? The meat is harder in those I've seen, and it may be a little thicker, but the only difference in the rest of the nut is that the water (liquid endosperm) has been absorbed into the meat. The water contains no oil, so I wonder whether the meat of a mature coconut contains more. Anyway, I can't find anything definite either way in the little literature that I have. The soft meat of a green nut is easier to scour out of the shell and run through the expellers. Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Coconut oil
Dear Hanns et al., The separation of coconut oil from coco milk (the water should be separated out before oil extraction, as it contains no oil) using heat is generally abandoned here due to low extraction efficiency and high energy use. I do not, unfortunately, have numbers, as the analyses and proposals I have on file are based on the use of mechanical expellers. As I have said before, high energy consumption is not necessarily a showstopper, as the availability of that energy (in both the thermodynamic and economic senses) is just as important as quantity. That is, if you can use coir and shells as your heat sources (if you have no more profitable outlets for those), then perhaps it can be made to work. As for fermenting the residue, the traditional end product of coco water is coco vinegar - wine vinegar is virtually unknown here. But I believe that acetic fermentation requires prior ethanol fermentation, so presumably there is some way to design a process that eliminates the acetobacter part of the vinegar process. Perhaps heating to the point where the residue is sterile, then (after cooling) inoculating with beer yeast and excluding air...? Looks like another bench-scale experiment is in the offing. Maybe we could design an experimental program and split the work? Were you planning to start with green coconuts or mature coconuts? Best, Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Lanao del Norte (Mindanao) Philippines Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Mobile BD plant
David Reid wrote: " In NZ while containers are loaded by overhead cranes at the container terminal (wharf) most transport is then by speciallly fitted semis which have hydraulic hoists front and back which can unload and reload fully laden containers by lifting them over the side and onto the tray. They even lift 40 foot containers this way." Interesting. I've been trying to design something like that, as I've never seen it. I can't seem to make the numbers come out right for side-loading a full container, though - no matter how I cut it the trailer would have to be ballasted to resist the overturning moment, and the result would nearly double its loaded weight. Can you tell me where to find info on these rigs? Best, Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Philippines Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Mobile BD plant
Derek Hargis wrote: "Yes, you're probably right. That was one of the reasons that I mentioned thinking to restrict myself to designing within only 20 foot containers. Then, I think a lot of the interior of the container is going to be empty space surrounding the machinery. I had hoped to move them with a large forklift, and would have to know the capacity of the forklift and to keep the total weight of the container with its stuff within that weight." You're certainly right to stick to 20-footers. Some are equipped with slots for the tines of a hyperthyroid forklift, but the ones I've seen handling containers in the port area are too big and heavy to be practical to take on the road. Furthermore, their ground pressure makes them mobile only on reinforced-concrete slabs (ordinary paving forms craters). " The fiberglass and aluminum containers I believe would be lighter than the steel ones, allowing for more weight to be added to the container." My high-cube is aluminum, and it is lighter - which theoretically allows more weight to be put in - but it is also weaker. As long as it is handled with a lifting frame that prevents any supplementary compression load on the top of the container, no problem, but even loaded to half its capacity it was close to buckling when lifted by a crane with a regular wire-rope sling and no "spreader." I have since reinforced it internally with a steel frame that doubles as support for bookshelves! My father-in-law and I are considering ways to add axles and road gear to it, as my next move is likely to be within the Philippines, and it's easier to load a self-mobile rig on a ferry than to arrange to move a container. " The last time I checked on prices the 40 foot containers were around USD 2000 on the second hand market. I don't know how that would compare with the old semi-trailers in cost?" I paid $2500 for my container, reconditioned and recertified, in California in 1998. My two semi-trailers (a reefer and an ex-moving van converted to a mobile office) cost me less than $1000 apiece and I resold them at a profit! Again, California. Don't know about other places. Here in the Philippines a semi would definitely be cheaper than a container, as the latter are in high demand. "The empty containers are often picked up with a winch and a tilt bed and slid on and off of the trailer on to the ground. As you say, that isn't really an option with a loaded one." Right. The first (and last) time I watched that procedure I almost choked. On a related topic: anybody got documentation on continuous fermentation processes? The lack of tankage capacity in a mobile rig is going to make batch processing of sugars into alcohol very difficult. Best, Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Lanao del Norte Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Jerusalem artichoke
David Reid wrote: "Will dig out some more information for you over the next week or so on Jeruasalem artichokes if I get a chance. How long are you in the Phillipines for? If you are going to be there for awhile it may pay to get some seed from the World Seed Bank and do a few growing trials. That way you will get a bit of knowledge and quickly sort out which varieties are likely to be most successful in specific or a variety of locations." I'm here permanently. Moved here shortly after marrying a "local" schoolteacher. Long term projects are no problem. Already working with my local Rotary club on their reforestation project that has been going since 1996 - 28 hectares of bald mountaintop now holding rain instead of shedding it. Now working on a livelihood assistance project to keep the trees from being cut before their time. Would like to know more about the World Seed Bank. I've found a surprising amount of information on the jerusalem artichoke on-line - about 16 pages worth. Still pretty sketchy, though, and all oriented to moderate climates. Best, Marc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Mobile BD plant
Derek Hargis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: "I have been considering ways to commercially produce biodiesel in India. My own thoughts have been along the lines of cargo containers. I want to get everything operational in 8 x 8 x 20 foot containers. They could be hauled about, set-up on site, etc. They don't need foundations." I love containers - in fact the 40-foot hi-cube I bought in the States to carry my household goods to the Philippines is still my main storage facility. Unfortunately, they have a big weakness, namely that you can't pick them up or drop them on-site without a crane. There are tricks for picking up an empty container without a crane, but they won't work at all with a loaded one, and put quite a lot of wear on even an empty one. With my 40-footer only loaded to about half its full capacity, I still had to pay a day's rent on a boom crane and watch in agony while they took five lifts to move the container from the trailer to my pad. At least in the USA, used semi-trailers with axles, brakes and all are cheaper than the equivalent cargo container and are easy to recondition. You just detach the tractor (the expensive part) and send it on its revenue-making way while working at a given site. Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Philippines Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Yield of Jerusalem artichoke
David Reid wrote: " That figures is basically true although yield obviously depends on a a number of factors such as quality of land, fertilizer, weed infestation, rain, insects, etc. That is probably about average for good land. Somewhere I have all the information here and I believe it mentions a top figure of 40 ton." Amazing. Shows you how much I know about agriculture! "Potatoes and one or two crops like Jerusalem artichokes certainly produce the most starch per acre and when this is converted to ethanol they are extremely efficient per acre of land. The drawback here is the reasonably large human input compared to western style farming where large capital investment in terms of equipment is required. You also need a jet cooker which precooks the starch, and the use of enzymes to maximise yields. If you had the use of Jeruaslem artichokes in mind in the Phillipines they would work very well I believe." That is becoming my view as well. " If you need more information I could probably dig it out for you and would be pleased to help." Anything you can dig up would be welcome. Helianthus tuberosus is mentioned in Purseglove's Tropical Crops, but only in connection with sunflowers whose close relatives they are. No details of culture or propagation. Topinambours, as they are called in France, are mentioned in Boullanger's treatise on distillery operations, but again in connection with processing, not culture. Seems to me this crop fits in with somebody's suggestion of a mobile biodiesel plant picking up feedstock on its rounds. I see a 3-truck convoy: biodiesel processing, ethanol processing, tanker. The big logistical problem here in the Philippines is that land holdings are fragmented and crops very diverse, so it's hard to find a plant site that ensures good supply of feedstock year 'round. Makes sense to take the plant to the source, now that the roads are being improved. A barge/ferry arrangement would complete the picture by allowing island-hopping. Best, Marc B.r., David Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Yield of Jerusalem artichokes
Looking into what I have on file about alcohol crops, I find the following quote about jerusalem artichoke: "Since one acre of Jerusalem artichokes yields about 28 tons of tubers under average conditions and 1 ton of tubers yields some 19 gallons of alcohol..." That yield per acre seems a bit too good to be true. Does anyone know the true figure? Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Vacuum fermentation
This is of interest - a means of improving alcohol yield from fermentation. http://www.rpi.edu/dept/chem-eng/Biotech-Environ/FERMENT/vacferm.htm Marc de Piolenc [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Model "diesel" engines
"steve spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: "found a company in the UK that sells diesel model airplane engines. forget the name might be in the archives." Diesel model airplane engines have nothing in common with "real" full-scale diesels except compression ignition of the fuel charge. They don't run on diesel fuel. They are what used to be called semi-diesel engines, in which the fuel is premixed with air and induced as for a gasoline engine, but is ignited by compression instead of spark or glow plugs. Marc de Piolenc who still has his old Webra somewhere... Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] glycerin and absolute alcohol
Dana Linscott wrote: "Message: 3 Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 06:07:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Dana Linscott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Glycerine and absolute alcohol "Lots of interest here! Am I to understand that this has potential to lower energy requirments for alcohol production including ethanol? If so the ethanol cooperatives in MN would be hugely interested as it would serve to "delink" ethanol production with natural gas prices. What a coup if this pans out." I'm not sure about the overall energy requirement. After all, the glycerine has to be regenerated, which requires both vacuum (steam ejector or shaft-driven pump) and heat. Somebody will have to run numbers - maybe perform bench-level tests. What excites me about this is integration. Glycerine is a bye-product of soap and biodiesel production, and needs to be purified to make it marketable. If the same apparatus can both regenerate the glycerine used as adsorbent for making pure ethanol AND make clean glycerine for market, there is a reduction in capital cost per unit of capacity for an integrated ethyl ester plant. That spells early returns, which should make projects of this sort easier to finance. Ever since I heard of biodiesel, I've been trying to make the numbers come out right so that I can get some coconut oil plants back up and running. Right now they refine coco oil for cooking, but Malaysian palm oil is so cheap that it's displacing coconut oil from the domestic market! Unfortunately, just grafting a biodiesel plant onto an existing coconut mill doesn't work, so there needs to be other products making maximum use of existing capital equipment. The "energy balance" is not the whole story in any case. If the energy input is from a waste product and the energy out is in the form of high-grade liquid fuel, there is a net gain no matter how many BTUs are on which side of the ledger. A low pressure steam plant burning ag waste can furnish both the vacuum and the heat. I'm looking for a site here in the Phils with about 4 meters of hydro head and about 1/2 ton/min flow, because liquid driven ejectors can be used for vacuum, saving a lot of steam. The ejector principle can also be used for deacidification with fatty acid recovery and for refrigeration. There is a similar controversy in the seawater desalination world (another stray interest of mine). The reverse-osmosis folk are fond of pointing out that their plants require "less energy" per unit of fresh water than multiple-effect thermal plants. What they neglect to mention is that their energy input is in the form of shaft power, while a thermal plant uses low-grade heat, preferably waste heat. The result is lots of idle RO capacity after the new owners learn the bottom line cost of operation. Best to all, Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
