Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
In a message dated 6/1/2005 9:09:01 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: By crafty, I was referring to what I call Priestcraft Blaine: Priestcraft is, by my definition, using preaching and/or teaching the gospel as a means of making a living. Mormon priests arelay priests--that is, they work at some other job to make a living, such as selling insurance, driving a bus, teaching school, etc.My current bishop distributes computer software. My former bishop drove a city bus. One before that was a sound engineer on an Air Force Base. Before that, he was a commissioned Air Force officer. ETC. When one who practices priestcraft sees hisincome being diminished because his patrons are being converted to Mormonism, he strikes out against the religion, hoping to destroy it. This is the sourceof most present-day Mormon bashing. I have said it before, will say it agian: Always consider the source, and you will not be deceived.
Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
Isaiah 29 11 "And the vision of all is become unto you as the word of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee; and he saith, I cannot, for it is sealed. 12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this I pray thee; and he saith, I am not learned. 13 Wherefore the Lord said, forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honor me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men, 14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvelous work among this people, even a marvelous work and a wonder; for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid." In a message dated 6/1/2005 8:51:31 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: do you think the Lord of creation is trying to tell us something Heb 1:1-2 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; JN 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Satan is an imitator. And a liar. So was JS. He never entered into The Kingdom for sure. Izzy
RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
I guess I just have no sensitivity at all, because I'm cracking up over the whole thing! It only strikes me as funny coming from Smithson. I can just see him laughing up his sleeve. Of course it's probably true, with him being in the construction business, but I just thought I'd pull his leg. (If he has one!) Sorry!!! No more sick (nurse) humor!!! (JD I really don't care what's missing!)Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Perry Locke Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 9:16 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz Izzy, first of all, it is none of your business if anyone on this group has a malady, or is missing appendages. What do you mean, he is just now telling us? What makes you think you even entitled to know this, or that he is obligated to tell you? Second, John gave us a valid reason for his typos, so why do you think he is being dishonest? Third, if you had any sensitivity at all you would drop your prideful attitude, quit trying to cover up your comment with cuteness, and admit it was tacky. Unless, of course, you have no sensitivity at all. Perry From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:51:47 -0500 Why is that Perry? When folks start make good-natured fun of JD's typo's suddenly he tells us he has two missing fingers. Now how long have we known JD and he is just now telling us that? Do you believe it? If we complain that he is not making sense is he going to suddenly confess that he had a lobotomy back in the 50's, or what??? Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Perry Locke Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 8:37 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz Izzy, I felt your post below was a bit tacky. I speak as your brother, not as moderator. From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] Are those the only body parts you are missing, or are you holding out on us, JD? (Sounds like a likely story to me!) Iz -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] Obesity
Not at all, Dave! I'm sitting here having my 3:00 am coffee and toast (with a bit of blackberry jam from the Amish) while entertaining myself at JD's expense on TT. :-) Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Hansen Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 9:59 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity DAVEH: Maybe so, but won't eating every 3 hours interrupt reading TT posts several times each night?!?!?! :-) David Miller wrote: The right response to getting fat is to eat more frequently. Eating a meal about every 3 hours will cause the body's metabolism to speed up and the storage of fat becomes less necessary. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
Dave, you are too much of a gentleman to ever be boring. J Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Hansen Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 9:57 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH DAVEH: Time is my biggest enemy, Lance. I started a big reply to one of DavidM's posts about 3 or 4 weeks ago, and it is only half finished. Right now I'm running a sleep deficit, and having fallen asleep early last night at my computer while reading TT stuffI am going to try to lurk more in the future. Besides...I think most TTers find my thoughts rather boring, being as LDS biased as they are. Lance Muir wrote: No 'knows'rings here, Dave. Why don't you more actively enter the conversation by offering your own summary of what's been said thus far. Then, please let me know your opinion/thoughts. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 02, 2005 09:58 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH Lance Muir wrote: DH asks: 1. Did Jesus' ...By some, yes. Your counterpart would be:The reindentification of 'who jesus is' by JS. One need not extend this thinking far to conclude that either the LDS are the 'true christians' or those that reflect the teaching of Nicea. You do see this do you not? DAVEH: Yeshowever, it is also possible that neither are correct. ONCE IT IS DEMONSTRATED THAT WE DO NOT WORSHIP, PREACH, TEACHTHE SAME JESUS THEN, ONE OF US FOLLOWS A FALSE GOSPEL. You do see this do you not? DAVEH: OK..I'm following you so far, Lance. I would like to follow this conversation, tired or not, through to it's conclusion, should you permit me to do so. DAVEH: Thank you for leading me by the nose, Lance..please continue. thanks, Lance From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 02, 2005 01:56 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH DAVEH: I'm a little too slow (and too tired) to ascertain your intended message, Lance. If you want me to understand what you are trying to convey, put it in more simple terms for this dunderhead. Did Jesus' theology nullify who God is as perceived by the Jews? As he saidhe didn't come to destroy the law, but rather fulfill it. FWIW...It seems to me the Jews could say something similar to you as to what you are saying to me... YOU CANNOT PREACH THE GOD YOU PREACH AND CALL YOURSELF GOD'S CHOSEN IN ANY HISTORIC SENSE .You do realize this, do you not? Lance Muir wrote: DaveH:I just re-read my question(s) and, find them rather clear. Please try telling me what YOU THINK I'm asking. Your analogy breaks down as it has to do with Older/Newer Testaments and the Incarnation of Christ. What you've (LDS) done is to have taken orthodox theology and nullified it with a superceding revelation as to WHO THIS JESUS IS. You then, answer the question posed by Jesus Himself in Lk 16 differently than every genuinely Christian group on the face of the earth.YOU DO KNOW THAT, DON't YOU? YOU CANNOT PREACH THE JESUS YOU PREACH AND CALL YOURSELF CHRISTIAN IN ANY HISTORIC SENSE. YOU KNOW THIS ALSO DO YOU NOT? I fear poor old CPL might've thought I was confused as to who you actually are. I'M NOT!! Why not take another run at it just for my sake. From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 01, 2005 10:06 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH DAVEH: I'm not exactly sure of your question, Lance.But as I view it, the position of many TTers is analogous to the Jews of Bible times. In the OT, Scripture gave them a perception of God to which the staunchly held. So firm in their convictions (as are many TTers), they had trouble acknowledging the Lord when he finally appearedwhybecause he was more like them than they expected I suppose. Nor did they buy into additional Scripture being added to Canon, which is another similarity shared by TTers. Many also failed to accept new commandments or recognize the NT prophets, rather stubbornly holding fast to the eye for an eye prophets of the past. So.is there really much difference between the closed minds of the Jews of the Bible in contrast to the way many TTers are receptive to anything outside what they believe Scripture offers? Lance Muir wrote: Who are your teachers? What are their authorities? What 'teaching' concerning the nature/gospel of God issues from these teachers and their teaching sources? Just how 'ultimate' IYO is the James 1 experience? IMO that which transpires herein (TT) is somewhat comparable to the 1st and, early centuries between the various factions who set out to answer such questions as those concerning the canon of Scripture and, the nature of the Person of Christ. IMO there exists sufficient similarity between the
RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
I think I also mentioned adulterer. Thats enough for me. Maybe not for you. Iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 11:54 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH In a message dated 6/1/2005 9:09:01 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Satan is an imitator. And a liar. So was JS. He never entered into The Kingdom for sure. Izzy Blaine: Is this your best shot Izzy? If it is, I'd say you are struggling.
[TruthTalk] New Bible Translation!
Another new Bible translation for those of you who like them: http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44563. It says Jesus was Judith, and was printed by LBI. (Lesbian Bible Institute?) -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity
Izzy wrote: Yum!!! Can we have dessert first? LOL. Well, there are other factors to controlling fat accumulation, such as learning to eat the right foods that burn slowly, and doing a little bit of exercise several times a week for those who tend to live sedentary lives. Learning to eat the right foods leads to a mental reconditioning so that some kinds of high sugar or high fat foods are no longer appetizing. Nevertheless, there is no problem with starting with dessert! How about one of my favorites: frozen yogurt. :-) Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
This is both evasive and, a non-answer. I've done the same myself multitudinous times on TT so, I can't hold your feet to the fire. However, one can't fail to notice that both Christine and yourself have no real answer for this reality. Which reality? The reality that the majority (pun intended) of believers on the globe read from a bible which is not the counterpart to the KJV. May I ask those of you (Kevin, Christine and David) who worship the pages, covers and indexing to lighten up a bit and, let God be God. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 02, 2005 21:23 Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz The Bibles that have out out lies and ERRORS in them can not possibly be God's word. It may say Bible, it may look like a Bible, but a FALSE WITNESS utters lies! The Word of God is recorded in the Bible that we may know what is required of us and that we might DO IT! Tell me what you make of that observation. Well obviously those that do not speak ENGLISH would have a Bible that is based on the Recieved text. Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is wise for one to remember that the Word of God is Jesus Christ. It is also wise to remember that His (God's) Words do not return void. Take care, Kevin, not confuse your role with that of the Spirit of God. I've found God to be at work EVEN THROUGH THE KJV! Just imagine! Speaking of 'imagine': Imagine yourself able to see every believer at once on the entire globe. Imagine them to be lit up like a little light. Then, imagine yourself able to see the Bible (or portion thereof) they had with them. How many of them do you believe are carrying the KJV? Now, don't make a smart remark, please. Tell me what you make of that observation. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 02, 2005 16:48 Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz the work of Catholic scholars It is amazing how some can stand the facts on their head. The UBS text used for the Moderne Bibles: Jesuit cardinal Carlo Maria Martini (1927- ) is the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Milan. Since 1967,has been one of the editors of the United Bible Societies Greek New Testament. His diocese in Europe is the largest in the world, with two thousand priests and five million "laity." He is Professor of New Testament Textual Criticism at the Pontifical Biblical Institute in Rome. He is also President of the Council of European Bishop's Conferences. A Time magazine, article reported that Martini brought together a syncretistic convocation of over 100 religious leaders from around the world to promote a new age, one-world religion. In addressing this meeting, Mikhail Gorbachev said, "We need to synthesize a new religion for thinking men that will universalize that religion for the world and lead us into a new age." Bruce Metzger modernist and approved ROMANIST New Oxford Annotated Bible RSV 1973 The first edition 1962 was the first Protestant annotated edition of the Bible to be approved by a Roman authority. It was given an imprimatur in 1966 by Cardinal Cushing, Archbishop of Boston, Massachusetts HERETICS Eugene Nida is the father of the blasphemous dynamic equivalency theory of Bible translation. Nida was the Executive Secretary of the Translations Department of the United Bible Societies from 1943 to 1980. As to his view of biblical inspiration, Nida says, "... Gods revelation involved limitations. ... Biblical revelation is not absolute and all divine revelation is essentially incarnational. ... Even if a truth is given only in words, it has no real validity until it has been translated into life. ... The words are in a sense nothing in and of themselves. ... the word is void unless related to experience" (Nida, Message and Mission, p. 222-228). Kurt Aland "This idea of verbal inspiration (i.e., of the literal and inerrant inspiration of the text), which the orthodoxy of both Protestant traditions maintained so vigorously, was applied to the Textus Receptus with all of its errors, including textual modifications of an obviously secondary character (as we recognize them today)" (Aland, The Problem of the New Testament Canon, 1962, pp. 6,7). BEWARE of these new versions! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Normallywhen a host of scholars and translation committees using the most recent manuscript discoveries all agree against a
Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
Kevin wrote: The Word of God is recorded in the Bible that we may know what is required of us and that we might DO IT! The Bible is not the sole witness of what is required of us, Kevin. Jesus promised us the Spirit, not the Bible. Please try to remember that. Teaching a relationship with Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit is not contrary to the Bible. Let me ask you this question. Suppose we just cut out the last chapter of Mark out of the KJV Bible? Would that book that now has error in it because some of it was removed still be able to be used to share Christ and help cause people to receive the Spirit and know what is required of them and what they should do? Let me ask you another question. Suppose a man believes upon the Lord through the preaching of the Word of God, but he has no Bible? The man lives a year without any Bible at all, but he prays and seeks to do what is right before the Lord. Frequently other men come and preach and teach to him the truth of God, but the man still has never read the Bible. He relies upon information he receives from those preachers and teachers who walk in the Truth and have the Word of God written on their hearts. By faith and the Spirit this man also receives the Word of God written upon his heart by a work of God. Would you think that such a man could not be saved because he has no Bible based upon the Received Text? Kevin wrote: Well obviously those that do not speak ENGLISH would have a Bible that is based on the Recieved text. What do you think of modern versions that are based upon the Received Text, such as Jay Green's Literal Translation and the Modern King James Version (please do not confuse the MKJV with the New King James Version)? See http://www.sovgracepub.com/bibles/MKJV.htm for more information on the MKJV. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
On considering the source:Every one of us does that when we look at the source name for a post, do we not? - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 03, 2005 02:08 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH In a message dated 6/1/2005 9:09:01 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: By crafty, I was referring to what I call Priestcraft Blaine: Priestcraft is, by my definition, using preaching and/or teaching the gospel as a means of making a living. Mormon priests arelay priests--that is, they work at some other job to make a living, such as selling insurance, driving a bus, teaching school, etc.My current bishop distributes computer software. My former bishop drove a city bus. One before that was a sound engineer on an Air Force Base. Before that, he was a commissioned Air Force officer. ETC. When one who practices priestcraft sees hisincome being diminished because his patrons are being converted to Mormonism, he strikes out against the religion, hoping to destroy it. This is the sourceof most present-day Mormon bashing. I have said it before, will say it agian: Always consider the source, and you will not be deceived.
Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
Let me assume DM's inquisitor model (not employed in some time I might say) and, abbreviate for the sake of your time: Do you perceive the James 1 experience such that it enables you to set aside every other consideration concerning LDS? - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 02, 2005 23:57 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH DAVEH: Time is my biggest enemy, Lance. I started a big reply to one of DavidM's posts about 3 or 4 weeks ago, and it is only half finished. Right now I'm running a sleep deficit, and having fallen asleep early last night at my computer while reading TT stuffI am going to try to lurk more in the future. Besides...I think most TTers find my thoughts rather boring, being as LDS biased as they are.Lance Muir wrote: No 'knows'rings here, Dave. Why don't you more actively enter the conversation by offering your own summary of what's been said thus far. Then, please let me know your opinion/thoughts. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 02, 2005 09:58 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH Lance Muir wrote: DH asks: 1. Did Jesus' ...By some, yes. Your counterpart would be:The reindentification of 'who jesus is' by JS. One need not extend this thinking far to conclude that either the LDS are the 'true christians' or those that reflect the teaching of Nicea. You do see this do you not?DAVEH: Yeshowever, it is also possible that neither are correct. ONCE IT IS DEMONSTRATED THAT WE DO NOT WORSHIP, PREACH, TEACHTHE SAME JESUS THEN, ONE OF US FOLLOWS A FALSE GOSPEL. You do see this do you not?DAVEH: OK..I'm following you so far, Lance. I would like to follow this conversation, tired or not, through to it's conclusion, should you permit me to do so.DAVEH: Thank you for leading me by the nose, Lance..please continue. thanks, Lance From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 02, 2005 01:56 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH DAVEH: I'm a little too slow (and too tired) to ascertain your intended message, Lance. If you want me to understand what you are trying to convey, put it in more simple terms for this dunderhead. Did Jesus' theology nullify who God is as perceived by the Jews? As he saidhe didn't come to destroy the law, but rather fulfill it. FWIW...It seems to me the Jews could say something similar to you as to what you are saying to me...YOU CANNOT PREACH THE GOD YOU PREACH AND CALL YOURSELF GOD'S CHOSEN IN ANY HISTORIC SENSE.You do realize this, do you not?Lance Muir wrote: DaveH:I just re-read my question(s) and, find them rather clear. Please try telling me what YOU THINK I'm asking. Your analogy breaks down as it has to do with Older/Newer Testaments and the Incarnation of Christ. What you've (LDS) done is to have taken orthodox theology and nullified it with a superceding revelation as to WHO THIS JESUS IS. You then, answer the question posed by Jesus Himself in Lk 16 differently than every genuinely Christian group on the face of the earth.YOU DO KNOW THAT, DON't YOU? YOU CANNOT PREACH THE JESUS YOU PREACH AND CALL YOURSELF CHRISTIAN IN ANY HISTORIC SENSE. YOU KNOW THIS ALSO DO YOU NOT? I fear poor old CPL might've thought I was confused as to who you actually are. I'M NOT!! Why not take another run at it just for my sake. From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 01, 2005 10:06 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH DAVEH: I'm not exactly sure of your question, Lance.But as I view it, the position of many TTers is analogous to the Jews of Bible times. In the OT, Scripture gave them a perception of God to which the staunchly held. So firm in their convictions (as are many TTers), they had trouble acknowledging the Lord when he finally appearedwhybecause he was more like them than they
Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
Blaine wrote: When one who practices priestcraft sees his income being diminished because his patrons are being converted to Mormonism, he strikes out against the religion, hoping to destroy it. This is the source of most present-day Mormon bashing. Very interesting thoughts, Blaine. Thanks for sharing your perspective here. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity
One out of two ain't bad, David. When you go to the second hand store for a new suit, do you ask for a 44 long? Rather than having this sin conversation one more time we'll just agree to disagree. You just spoke the other day of the remnants of human nature even in such as yourself. Let's just say that those 'remnants' find an opportunity for expression every single day of your life. You eat every day, you breath every day and, you 'remnant' every day. By the by David, I'm not calling YOU a liar. However, I am, once again, calling you self deceived. You remind me of John Nash in 'A Beautiful Mind' excepting your delusions are smaller than his. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 03, 2005 06:43 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity John wrote: I was illustrating sin management, David. Who said anything about slowing down ones metabolism? No me. But let's stay on track and avoid a food fight. You were using the problem of obesity to illustrate the value of sin management. You used the postponement of eating as an analogy to validate the concept of postponing sin. Well, if it does not work for fat people, why do you think it will work with sin? Let's just say that I was drawing upon your analogy for two reasons: 1) to help anyone struggling with being overweight, and 2) to illustrate that your teaching concerning sin is probably about just as effective as your success in managing your weight. Look, you have told us often that you are fat and that you continue to sin. Why do you presume to teach us how to manage these issues? Don't you think a little more humility is in order? How about trying to hear a little more from those on the list who are not fat and who do not sin? Or are you going to reject the idea that some people on the list are not fat, just as you reject the idea that some people on this list do not continue to sin? Humility, John, humility. Is that too much to ask? Not everybody on the list is fat, and not everybody on the list sins. In other words, not everybody is just like you. Think about that, and think about how such facts should flavor the way you communicate on this list. More humility is in order here. Spoken firmly in love, wishing you only the best in Christ, David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Judy and John on the Law and the Spirit
David Miller wrote: Jesus had these same temptations. John wrote: So Christ was selfish, covetous, bigoted, lustful, arrogant and the like ??? No, I said he was tempted in this way because his flesh had the same nature within it as you and I. Remember his temptation in the desert, when Satan offered him the kingdoms of this world? Do you not think that within his flesh, he was tempted by this just as he was tempted by hunger from within to turn the rocks into bread? John wrote: He just did not act on it? You lost me on that one. Please invite Bill Taylor back on to explain the Incarnation. He has acknowledged that he believes this also. This is what brought him to TruthTalk in the first place, when he saw my dialogue with Judy on this subject. He wanted to let me know that my teachings had support in history and that our modern culture has strayed from the Biblical and historical understanding of Jesus in this area. This is what the concept of the Incarnation is really all about. David Miller wrote: Why would a person committed to Christ not always choose to do what he knows he should be doing? Do you have an example of this? John wrote: You, Lance, Deegan, me, and so on. Please do not speak for me, John. I was wondering if you had a specific example. Do you mean that if you knew that someone needed a coat, and you had two coats and knew that you should give one of your coats to this person because it was just their size, that you would not do it? What exactly do you have in mind that you would not do that you know you should do? I really do not understand what you have in mind. David Miller wrote: One of the reasons believers need to stop all sin is so that they can grow spiritually, which produces good character. John wrote: Romans 7: 25 makes it clear that this is not true. Two things are going on at the same time -- the spiritual side is increasing and the fleshly side is decreasing. No, John. Keep reading past Romans 7:25. Once a person recognizes that his flesh serves sin and that sin dwells within the physical body, whereas the Spirit serves Christ, then he can devote himself completely to that which is Spirit and reckon his body of flesh to be dead. I might agree with your statement that two things are going on at the same time in certain contexts, but to then argue that the spiritual side is increasing while the fleshly side is decreasing would be inaccurate. The believer needs to reckon his old man dead on a daily basis. Yes, his spiritual side will increase, but he is not slowly stopping sin while slowly increasing his interest in God. He stops sin and then increases spiritually. Sin and the spirit are contrary to each other, and one cannot grow spiritually while continuing in sin. Let me ask you something. Suppose someone was involved in adultery, and they came to you and told you about it. They also told you of their inner struggle, and that they just could not stop their affair because of their attraction for this other person. Would you tell that person to manage the adultery, to postpone seeing that other person for awhile? Or, would you tell that person that he needed to repent and stop the adulterous affair right away? Being in the counselling business, I suspect you have encountered such situations. Which would you do and what really works in solving the problem? John wrote: Eph 4:22 -23 : ? ?lay aside the old self WHICH IS BEING CORRUPTED in accordance with the lusts of deceit and put on the new self ? ? they are happening at the same time. If we put on the new self and lay aside the old self, they are not both in play at the same time. They both exist at the same time, but one is alive and the other is reckoned dead. John wrote: The source of sin is Satan -- and He makes his approach in any of a number of ways. Romans 7 teaches us that sin dwells in the flesh. Therefore, the physical body also is a source of sin. John wrote: You have it all worked out, David, while ignoring it ugly realities in your very life. Sin's ugly realities in my life is what has caused me to work out a proper Biblical understanding of it. I have not ignored it. I have victory over sin through the grace of Jesus Christ but you do not believe me. John wrote: As far as the ?John is a legalist? theme. You have this theme for only one reason -- hoping to irritate me. Not true, John. I only bring it up because you and others have used that as an accusation against me. It is truly my perspective that your so-called legalism has not changed one bit. I believe that you and others deceive yourselves. You think that by forsaking the law of God, you are no longer legalists, but the truth is that you have changed the object of your legalism from the written law to an ambiguous doctrine of grace that you erroneously teach is contrary to the law. John wrote: And you simply love getting off
Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity
You are such a bore, David. If one eats nearly all the time -- postponement is a good thing. If one thinks to stop at Burger King for the third time today, postponement is a good thing. And it is noteating more often, David; it is eating smaller meals more often -- postponement working again. If I think to eat a candy bar afterhours, postponement is a good thing. And why do I think it will workwith sin -- because I am told that if I flee youthful lusts, I will have victory -- on any occasion thaI I do this, a victorywill be mine. The addict, if not miraculously delivered (and most[say 99%] are not), his only hope is sin management -- postponement. If the postponement is successful, he can build on that success. " ... who do not sin ." No one on this list fits that description, David -- lest of which is you. Let me make myself clear: THE number one reason why I do not believe in sinless perfectionism is YOU. That's it. You is the reason for the season.I think it funny that you equate "humility" with my giving attention to you or people like you. Arrogance, pride and conceit plague us all, don't they David? Back to "postponement." Eatng is not my only issue -- and the management principle has, in deed, worked in a number of areas in my life. JD -Original Message-From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 06:43:36 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity John wrote: I was illustrating "sin management," David. Who said anything about slowing down ones metabolism? No me. But let's stay on track and avoid a food fight. You were using the problem of obesity to illustrate the value of sin management. You used the postponement of eating as an analogy to validate the concept of postponing sin. Well, if it does not work for fat people, why do you think it will work with sin? Let's just say that I was drawing upon your analogy for two reasons: 1) to help anyone struggling with being overweight, and 2) to illustrate that your teaching concerning sin is probably about just as effective as your success in managing your weight. Look, you have told us often that you are fat and that you continue to sin. Why do you presume to teach us how to manage these issues? Don't you think a little more humility is in order? How about trying to hear a little more from those on the list who are not fat and who do not sin? Or are you going to reject the idea that some people on the list are not fat, just as you reject the idea that some people on this list do not continue to sin? Humility, John, humility. Is that too much to ask? Not everybody on the list is fat, and not everybody on the list sins. In other words, not everybody is just like you. Think about that, and think about how such facts should flavor the way you communicate on this list. More humility is in order here. Spoken firmly in love, wishing you only the best in Christ, David Miller. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity
Lance wrote: I am, once again, calling you self deceived. I'm tempted to hear you, Lance, because a man who has deceived himself would not know it unless someone pointed it out to him. The problems associated with me accepting what you say is 1) the person Jesus Christ, 2) the Scriptures which you do not seem to hold in high regard, and 3) my experience in life with having victory over sin. Could it be that I am deceived? I suppose so, but if so, then Jesus Christ and the Scriptures are the ones who deceived me. I think that is a problem with me hearing you on this matter. Lance wrote: You eat every day, you breath every day and, you 'remnant' every day. You have, in the past, agreed with the idea of the Incarnation, that Christ was made flesh and thereby condemned sin in the flesh. Well, Jesus ate every day (when he was not fasting), he breathed every day, and, well... did Jesus also 'remnant' every day? This is not a rhetorical question. I would like an answer. I want to understand you and I consider your charge that I deceive myself very seriously. I am thinking right now of a science project I did in high school in which I deceived myself. I designed what I thought was a high efficiency engine without accounting for efficiency problems with the conductivity of wires and heat loss to the atmosphere. In essence, I deceived myself into a false concept, and yet nobody, not my science teacher nor anybody else tried to help me see the problem. I received an A for the project and even received a top award from the Army for that science project at a science fair. It was not any of my teachers, nor any of the judges, nor any qualified person who helped me understand the problem. I had this gnawing notion that something was wrong, but I could not put my finger on it. Then one unknown man walked up, looked at it with interest, then insulted me by telling me that it flat out would not work. I asked him why. He took time to explain it to me, and although I initially raised objections to what he was saying, he kept answering with good answers until he had communicated enough that I suddenly understood the problem and realized how worthless my whole science project was. That was a good experience for me, because I realize that we cannot judge truth by what passes under the nose of those in authority over us. I also learned that we can deceive ourselves if we fail to consider just one little important fact. If you have that fact about this issue, I will try hard to see it, but if you don't, then perhaps you are the one who is deceived about there not being victory over sin through faith in Jesus Christ. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity
Now JD, don't get critical with David just because he approached the problem a different way. You are attributing obesity to gluttony and he is saying that there are other reasons for a person to be overweight, and that a slow metabolism is one of them. So what is wrong with that? I happen to believe that it can go even deeper than this to the fear and anxiety response of fight or flight where the body releases excessive amounts of cortisol. There is some truth to that aggravating "belly fat" commercial - their explanation for it that is not their product. Amazing how just as soon as something is understood it is being marketed. It is just as important to judge with "righteous judgment" If I look at every fat ppl and believe in my heart that they are gluttons I have violated the Royal Law. judyt On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 00:19:26 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I was illustrating "sin management," David. Who said anything about slowing down ones metabolism? No me. But let's stay on track and avoid a food fight. JD From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]John wrote: Fat people (and I suspect there are more fat people on this forum than one would suppose) victimize themselves with the addiction of gluttony. Sin Management teaches them that this is destructive behavior (ala "sin") and encourages them to modify or postpone their eating .If there are fat people on this list, I would like to comment on this to help those fat people. Postponing eating is probably one of the worse things a fat person can do. The body has a natural response to postponed eating. It slows down your metabolism. Then when you do eat, more of what you eat is stored as fat. The cycle worsens with more postponing of eating because your body anticipates long periods between meals. It stores more and more fat as your metabolism slows down more and more.The right response to getting fat is to eat more frequently. Eating a meal about every 3 hours will cause the body's metabolism to speed up and the storage of fat becomes less necessary.Peace be with you.David Miller. --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity
On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 07:25:57 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You are such a bore, David. If one eats nearly all the time -- postponement is a good thing. If one thinks to stop at Burger King for the third time today, postponement is a good thing. And it is noteating more often, David; it is eating smaller meals more often -- postponement working again. If I think to eat a candy bar afterhours, postponement is a good thing. What is wrong with you ppl - you break the Royal Law so far as David Miller is concerned daily. Where's the love?? You are quick to throw out everything but Christ's two commandments and you break both on a daily basis. And why do I think it will workwith sin -- because I am told that if I flee youthful lusts, I will have victory -- on any occasion thaI I do this, a victorywill be mine. The addict, if not miraculously delivered (and most[say 99%] are not), his only hope is sin management -- postponement. If the postponement is successful, he can build on that success. This must be where your "incarnational gospel" fails. Jesus did not go to the cross for "sin management" He defeated sin andfreed us fromit's inheritance, power, and presence ... However, this reality seems to threaten you. " ... who do not sin ." No one on this list fits that description, David -- lest of which is you. Let me make myself clear: THE number one reason why I do not believe in sinless perfectionism is YOU. That's it. You are accusing him of something he has never professed. I have read DM's views on sin and have seen him admit that he misses it, repents and goes on. When consistent that sin should eventually fall away. Why do you persist in accusing him? The blood of bulls and goats covered sin which was a type of sin management. The blood of Christ remits them. Big difference. You is the reason for the season.I think it funny that you equate "humility" with my giving attention to you or people like you. Arrogance, pride and conceit plague us all, don't they David? You may speak for yourself - otherwise all you are doing is becoming the devil's advocate JD. Back to "postponement." Eatng is not my only issue -- and the management principle has, in deed, worked in a number of areas in my life. JD Management does not get rid of the problem. This is what Israel thought they would do when God told them to get rid of the Canaanite Nations. They partially obeyed but decided to allow some to stay and be water carriers for them and these enemies rose up and bit them in the rear end. Something to think about. jt -Original Message-From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 06:43:36 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity John wrote: I was illustrating "sin management," David. Who said anything about slowing down ones metabolism? No me. But let's stay on track and avoid a food fight. You were using the problem of obesity to illustrate the value of sin management. You used the postponement of eating as an analogy to validate the concept of postponing sin. Well, if it does not work for fat people, why do you think it will work with sin? Let's just say that I was drawing upon your analogy for two reasons: 1) to help anyone struggling with being overweight, and 2) to illustrate that your teaching concerning sin is probably about just as effective as your success in managing your weight. Look, you have told us often that you are fat and that you continue to sin. Why do you presume to teach us how to manage these issues? Don't you think a little more humility is in order? How about trying to hear a little more from those on the list who are not fat and who do not sin? Or are you going to reject the idea that some people on the list are not fat, just as you reject the idea that some people on this list do not continue to sin? Humility, John, humility. Is that too much to ask? Not everybody on the list is fat, and not everybody on the list sins. In other words, not everybody is just like you. Think about that, and think about how such facts should flavor the way you communicate on this list. More humility is in order here. Spoken firmly in love, wishing you only the best in Christ, David Miller. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
Joe was a WARLOCK with all the tools of the craft. Even SOME Mormons can admit it is so. http://www.signaturebooks.com/magic.htm By drawing only on authorized descriptions of the endowment by LDS leaders, I believe it is possible to see within historical context how the Mormon endowment reflected the ancient and occult mysteries far closer than Freemasonry (Early Mormonism and the Magic World View, p. 186). http://www.irr.org/mit/masonry.html Mormonism is Occultism! For more on the Occultism Grant H. Palmer, An Insider's View of Mormon Origins, (Signature Books, SLC, 2002, 281 pages). Palmer is an LDS seminary teacher and three-time director of LDS Institutes of Religion in California and Utah. DU 18 thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. There shalt not be found among you any one that . . . useth divination, or is an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits [demons], or a wizard, or a necromancer [one who communicates with the dead]. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 6/1/2005 9:09:01 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: By crafty, I was referring to what I call Priestcraft Blaine: Priestcraft is, by my definition, using preaching and/or teaching the gospel as a means of making a living. Mormon priests arelay priests--that is, they work at some other job to make a living, such as selling insurance, driving a bus, teaching school, etc.My current bishop distributes computer software. My former bishop drove a city bus. One before that was a sound engineer on an Air Force Base. Before that, he was a commissioned Air Force officer. ETC. When one who practices priestcraft sees hisincome being diminished because his patrons are being converted to Mormonism, he strikes out against the religion, hoping to destroy it. This is the sourceof most present-day Mormon bashing. I have said it before, will say it agian: Always consider the source, and you will not be deceived. __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
I dont know anyone who worships a book. Do you? Iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 4:18 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH So then, does worshiping a book make one an idolater? Are such on an equal footing with a liar? I'm only askin' mind ya. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 03, 2005 01:53 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH In a message dated 6/1/2005 9:09:01 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Satan is an imitator. And a liar. So was JS. He never entered into The Kingdom for sure. Izzy Blaine: Is this your best shot Izzy? If it is, I'd say you are struggling.
Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
This is not a Prophecy of the Book of Mormon. Read the context Blaine.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isaiah 29 11 "And the vision of all is become unto you as the word of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee; and he saith, I cannot, for it is sealed. 12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this I pray thee; and he saith, I am not learned. 13 Wherefore the Lord said, forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honor me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men, 14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvelous work among this people, even a marvelous work and a wonder; for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid." In a message dated 6/1/2005 8:51:31 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: do you think the Lord of creation is trying to tell us something Heb 1:1-2 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; JN 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Satan is an imitator. And a liar. So was JS. He never entered into The Kingdom for sure. Izzy Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out!
Re: [TruthTalk] New Bible Translation!
Well I guess God will use this piece of Trash also, according to JD Lance. Lu 2:"4 And Joseph went to Bethlehem. 5 To be enrolled with Mary, his wife, who was then pregnant. 7 And she brought forth her firstborn child. 21 And her name was chosen to be Judith." Judith saves?ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another new Bible translation for those of you who like them:http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44563. It says Jesus was"Judith", and was printed by LBI. (Lesbian Bible Institute?)--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out!
Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity
John wrote: If one eats nearly all the time -- postponement is a good thing. Well, that certainly is true. If someone is eating all the time, he needs to stop that. John wrote: If one thinks to stop at Burger King for the third time today, postponement is a good thing. But it would be better not to eat at Burger King at all. That is better than postponement. John wrote: And it is not eating more often, David; it is eating smaller meals more often -- postponement working again. In my experience with eating frequently, smaller meals comes naturally. But maybe you mean discipline more than postponement. We should lead discplined lives, but postponing to do what is bad for us is not a solution to the problem. It is better to recognize what is bad and stop it. John wrote: If I think to eat a candy bar after hours, postponement is a good thing. Eating a candy bar after hours would be worse than eating a candy bar earlier in the day. The better solution is to skip the candy bar entirely. You don't need it if it is not good for you. If eating it in moderation is healthy, then go ahead, but is sin in moderation a good thing or a bad thing? Who needs sin? John wrote: And why do I think it will work with sin -- because I am told that if I flee youthful lusts, I will have victory Right... FLEE youthful lusts, not postpone them. The whole idea of describing them as youthful is the idea that they should be put away, the same way an adult no longer desires to play with toys like children do. When a man flees youthful lusts, he will develop character that is not lustful. Do you agree? John wrote: The addict, if not miraculously delivered (and most [say 99%] are not), his only hope is sin management -- postponement. I've worked with a lot of addicts, John. This works about as well as diets work for the obese. They always fall back into it and the addictions become worse than they were before. I will hear Terry on this matter over you. He speaks from the experience of success. I don't know where you get the 99% failure figure from. We certainly have greater success than that with addicts. John wrote: If the postponement is successful, he can build on that success. Theoretically, but how much success have you had with this postponement method? How many addicts are no longer addicts? How long did it take them to move from postponement to elimination? John wrote: THE number one reason why I do not believe in sinless perfectionism is YOU. Again, I repeat, I do not believe in sinless perfectionism. If you cannot understand what I believe or how I live, why do you use me as an excuse to continue in sin? Are you sure you are not saying this to try and insult me? You have planted that idea in my head with a recent post. John wrote: That's it. You is the reason for the season. I think it funny that you equate humility with my giving attention to you or people like you. Arrogance, pride and conceit plague us all, don't they David? Yes, and some of us have victory over these things while others try and massage their conscience that nothing more can be done than what is already being done. John wrote: Back to postponement. Eatng is not my only issue -- and the management principle has, in deed, worked in a number of areas in my life. Well, if not in fat management, what areas do you have in mind? I'm not completely against the concept. I just don't see that it works with either fat or sin. So tell us, in what areas have you had success with it? Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
One of the Book of Mormon witnesses said he "contracted a WHORING Spirit" By the way you left out PERVERT. He liked little girls.ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I also mentioned adulterer. Thats enough for me. Maybe not for you. Iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 11:54 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH In a message dated 6/1/2005 9:09:01 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Satan is an imitator. And a liar. So was JS. He never entered into The Kingdom for sure. Izzy Blaine: Is this your best shot Izzy? If it is, I'd say you are struggling. Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
You asked me not to give a smart remark. I complied. I answered as best I could since I really did not understandyour question State it more clearly I will answer. I do not evade questions. The new bible problem exists in other languages also. There are plenty of translations based on the Textus Receptus in other languages that are the pure word of God for the people of that language. There are also corrupt bibles in those languages based on the corrupt greek text of the Jesuits Westcott Hort Who worships pages, covers and indexing? Looks like you are the one that needs to lighten up, how absurd! Why is it that you inteligensia always have to mischaracterize? Why not deal with the issue unless it is you who is not able to. I guess this is the best you can do given the facts. Fact is the new bibles are hopelessly corrupted. Are far as lightening up, I will never as long as God gives me strength. I do not want to face His rebuke, for suffering FALSE Teachers! Rev 2:20 I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. WWJD What would JUDITH do?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is both evasive and, a non-answer. I've done the same myself multitudinous times on TT so, I can't hold your feet to the fire. However, one can't fail to notice that both Christine and yourself have no real answer for this reality. Which reality? The reality that the majority (pun intended) of believers on the globe read from a bible which is not the counterpart to the KJV. May I ask those of you (Kevin, Christine and David) who worship the pages, covers and indexing to lighten up a bit and, let God be God. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 02, 2005 21:23 Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz The Bibles that have out out lies and ERRORS in them can not possibly be God's word. It may say Bible, it may look like a Bible, but a FALSE WITNESS utters lies! The Word of God is recorded in the Bible that we may know what is required of us and that we might DO IT! Tell me what you make of that observation. Well obviously those that do not speak ENGLISH would have a Bible that is based on the Recieved text. Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is wise for one to remember that the Word of God is Jesus Christ. It is also wise to remember that His (God's) Words do not return void. Take care, Kevin, not confuse your role with that of the Spirit of God. I've found God to be at work EVEN THROUGH THE KJV! Just imagine! Speaking of 'imagine': Imagine yourself able to see every believer at once on the entire globe. Imagine them to be lit up like a little light. Then, imagine yourself able to see the Bible (or portion thereof) they had with them. How many of them do you believe are carrying the KJV? Now, don't make a smart remark, please. Tell me what you make of that observation. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 02, 2005 16:48 Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz the work of Catholic scholars It is amazing how some can stand the facts on their head. The UBS text used for the Moderne Bibles: Jesuit cardinal Carlo Maria Martini (1927- ) is the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Milan. Since 1967,has been one of the editors of the United Bible Societies Greek New Testament. His diocese in Europe is the largest in the world, with two thousand priests and five million "laity." He is Professor of New Testament Textual Criticism at the Pontifical Biblical Institute in Rome. He is also President of the Council of European Bishop's Conferences. A Time magazine, article reported that Martini brought together a syncretistic convocation of over 100 religious leaders from around the world to promote a new age, one-world religion. In addressing this meeting, Mikhail Gorbachev said, "We need to synthesize a new religion for thinking men that will universalize that religion for the world and lead us into a new age." Bruce Metzger modernist and approved ROMANIST New Oxford Annotated Bible RSV 1973 The first edition 1962 was the first Protestant annotated edition of the Bible to be approved by a Roman authority. It was given an imprimatur in 1966 by Cardinal Cushing, Archbishop of Boston, Massachusetts HERETICS Eugene Nida is the father of the blasphemous dynamic equivalency theory of Bible translation. Nida was the Executive Secretary of the Translations Department of the United Bible Societies from 1943 to 1980. As to his view of biblical inspiration, Nida says, "... Gods revelation involved limitations. ... Biblical revelation is not absolute and all divine revelation is essentially incarnational. ... Even if a truth is given only in words, it has no real validity until it has been translated into life. ... The words are in a sense
Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
Funny question from the bookworm! Whats new at the movies Lance?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So then, does worshiping a book make one an idolater? Are such on an equal footing with a liar? I'm only askin' mind ya. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 03, 2005 01:53 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH In a message dated 6/1/2005 9:09:01 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Satan is an imitator. And a liar. So was JS. He never entered into The Kingdom for sure. Izzy Blaine: Is this your best shot Izzy? If it is, I'd say you are struggling. __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
David Miller wrote: Kevin wrote: The Word of God is recorded in the Bible that we may know what is required of us and that we might DO IT! The Bible is not the sole witness of what is required of us, Kevin. Jesus promised us the Spirit, not the Bible. Please try to remember that. Teaching a relationship with Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit is not contrary to the Bible. Let me ask you this question. Suppose we just cut out the last chapter of Mark out of the KJV Bible? Would that book that now has error in it because some of it was removed still be able to be used to share Christ and help cause people to receive the Spirit and know what is required of them and what they should do? Let me ask you another question. Suppose a man believes upon the Lord through the preaching of the Word of God, but he has no Bible? The man lives a year without any Bible at all, but he prays and seeks to do what is right before the Lord. Frequently other men come and preach and teach to him the truth of God, but the man still has never read the Bible. He relies upon information he receives from those preachers and teachers who walk in the Truth and have the Word of God written on their hearts. By faith and the Spirit this man also receives the Word of God written upon his heart by a work of God. Would you think that such a man could not be saved because he has no Bible based upon the Received Text? === Might we not look at it this way? God can use any Bible available to reveal Himself to any person, any where, or God can reveal Himself with no Bible at all. Anyone who knows the power of God knows that this is not only possible, but has been done many times. The problem with some versions is not that God cannot use them, but that Satan can. Satan can take some of the new versions and use them to preach a different Gospel and a different Savior, eg:Judith. Admittedly, he can do the same with the KJV, but not as easily. Just something to think about. Terry
[Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
Could we be in the midst of the "great falling away" that has been prophesied? Gaining entrance to the Kingdom is one thing, being able to receive strong meat and to stand is another. I sure wouldn't presume anything including your fascination with so called "Book worship." You sound more like a bibliophile than anyone else writing to TT at present. jtLance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is both evasive and, a non-answer. I've done the same myself multitudinous times on TT so, I can't hold your feet to the fire. However, one can't fail to notice that both Christine and yourself have no real answer for this reality. Which reality? The reality that the majority (pun intended) of believers on the globe read from a bible which is not the counterpart to the KJV. May I ask those of you (Kevin, Christine and David) who worship the pages, covers and indexing to lighten up a bit and, let God be God. From: Kevin Deegan The Bibles that have out out lies and ERRORS in them can not possibly be God's word. It may say Bible, it may look like a Bible, but a FALSE WITNESS utters lies! The Word of God is recorded in the Bible that we may know what is required of us and that we might DO IT! Tell me what you make of that observation. Well obviously those that do not speak ENGLISH would have a Bible that is based on the Recieved text. Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is wise for one to remember that the Word of God is Jesus Christ. It is also wise to remember that His (God's) Words do not return void. Take care, Kevin, not confuse your role with that of the Spirit of God. I've found God to be at work EVEN THROUGH THE KJV! Just imagine! Speaking of 'imagine': Imagine yourself able to see every believer at once on the entire globe. Imagine them to be lit up like a little light. Then, imagine yourself able to see the Bible (or portion thereof) they had with them. How many of them do you believe are carrying the KJV? Now, don't make a smart remark, please. Tell me what you make of that observation. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 02, 2005 16:48 Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz the work of Catholic scholars It is amazing how some can stand the facts on their head. The UBS text used for the Moderne Bibles: Jesuit cardinal Carlo Maria Martini (1927- ) is the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Milan. Since 1967,has been one of the editors of the United Bible Societies Greek New Testament. His diocese in Europe is the largest in the world, with two thousand priests and five million "laity." He is Professor of New Testament Textual Criticism at the Pontifical Biblical Institute in Rome. He is also President of the Council of European Bishop's Conferences. A Time magazine, article reported that Martini brought together a syncretistic convocation of over 100 religious leaders from around the world to promote a new age, one-world religion. In addressing this meeting, Mikhail Gorbachev said, "We need to synthesize a new religion for thinking men that will universalize that religion for the world and lead us into a new age." Bruce Metzger modernist and approved ROMANIST New Oxford Annotated Bible RSV 1973 The first edition 1962 was the first Protestant annotated edition of the Bible to be approved by a Roman authority. It was given an imprimatur in 1966 by Cardinal Cushing, Archbishop of Boston, Massachusetts HERETICS Eugene Nida is the father of the blasphemous dynamic equivalency theory of Bible translation. Nida was the Executive Secretary of the Translations Department of the United Bible Societies from 1943 to 1980. As to his view of biblical inspiration, Nida says, "... Gods revelation involved limitations. ... Biblical revelation is not absolute and all divine revelation is essentially incarnational. ... Even if a truth is given only in words, it has no real validity until it has been translated into life. ... The words are in a sense nothing in and of themselves. ... the word is void unless related to experience" (Nida, Message and Mission, p. 222-228). Kurt Aland "This idea of verbal inspiration (i.e., of the literal
Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
Yes. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 03, 2005 08:01 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH I dont know anyone who worships a book. Do you? Iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Friday, June 03, 2005 4:18 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH So then, does worshiping a book make one an idolater? Are such on an equal footing with a liar? I'm only askin' mind ya. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 03, 2005 01:53 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH In a message dated 6/1/2005 9:09:01 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Satan is an imitator. And a liar. So was JS. He never entered into The Kingdom for sure. Izzy Blaine: Is this your best shot Izzy? If it is, I'd say you are struggling.
Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
As far as the holy Spirit, who leads us into all truth, Please see my previous posts on illumination If the foundation is corrupt then goeth the rest. The WH text is hopelessly corrupt on the face of it. This is prima facae evidence against the Critical text. Just look, on it's face multiple handwritings, multiple corrections, missing sections, missing verses, multiple erasings No need to delve deeper. I see nothing pure about such a text. Here is the evidence. http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~wie/Vaticanus/general.html#cor Prov 30 Verse 5 "Every Word of God is PURE" I ask again would your bank accept a check with multiple handwritings, overwritings, deletions and insertions? I accept other translations based on the PURE text the TR BUT sometimes there is hanky panky going on such as the NKJV which claims to be a slight updating of the language and is not. They lie that "NKJV makes the KJV even better" It contains the corrupt readings of the Critical text in many places. Someone is trying to slip someone a Mickey! Thomas Nelson Co. that is SELLING this, I wonder why they change 2 Co 2:17 form "For we are not as many, which corrupt the Word of God" (CORRUPT changed to Peddling) There were (Bible Perverts) corrupters of the word, in Paul's day, in the garden they still exist today! Jer 23:36 ye have perverted the words of the living God, of the LORD of hosts our God.David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin wrote: The Word of God is recorded in the Bible that we may know what is required of us and that we might DO IT!The Bible is not the sole witness of what is required of us, Kevin. Jesus promised us the Spirit, not the Bible. Please try to remember that. Teaching a relationship with Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit is not contrary to the Bible.Let me ask you this question. Suppose we just cut out the last chapter of Mark out of the KJV Bible? Would that book that now has error in it because some of it was removed still be able to be used to share Christ and help cause people to receive the Spirit and know what is required of them and what they should do?Let me ask you another question. Suppose a man believes upon the Lord through the preaching of the Word of God, but he has no Bible? The man lives a year without any Bible at all, but he prays and seeks to do what is right before the Lord. Frequently other men come and preach and teach to him the truth of God, but the man still has never read the Bible. He relies upon information he receives from those preachers and teachers who walk in the Truth and have the Word of God written on their hearts. By faith and the Spirit this man also receives the Word of God written upon his heart by a work of God. Would you think that such a man could not be saved because he has no Bible based upon the Received Text?Kevin wrote: Well obviously those that do not speak ENGLISH would have a Bible that is based on the Recieved text.What do you think of modern versions that are based upon the Received Text, such as Jay Green's Literal Translation and the Modern King James Version (please do not confuse the MKJV with the New King James Version)? See http://www.sovgracepub.com/bibles/MKJV.htm for more information on the MKJV.Peace be with you.David Miller. --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity
Judy Taylor wrote: Jesus did not go to the cross for "sin management" He defeated sin andfreed us fromit's inheritance, power, and presence . === Beautifil! Puts it all into perspective with a minimum of words.
Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Blaine wrote: Priestcraft is, by my definition, ... Here we go again...the mormons like to make up their own meanings for words, to suit thier own personal perception of the world. I call this the Queen of Hearts syndrome: Words mean exactly what I want them to mean! When a person is steeped in a culture in which the cultural leaders redefine words to have untraditional meanings, for the purpose of making the culture appear to be other than it really is, this begins to affect it's adherents, as we see with Blaine above, and have recently seen with DaveH in his limited definition of the word teach, which exclusdes his own actions on TT. Another case in point is the Clinton case where his attempt tp liimit the definition of certain words and phrases to exclude his own actions has been passed down to our youth, who at times use these tactics to try to exclude thier own actions. Another, but inverse, example is the word homophobe. In this case the definition of the word has been EXPANDED to include not only those who fear homosexuality (traditional definition), but to include those who beleive that it is sinful behavior. The root of this is in the politically correct movement, where it does not matter what you feel or believe, but how you are perceived. Wow. What a world! Perry -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
Kevin, you never answered me about modern English versions that are not based upon the WH text. How do you feel about them? David.
Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
DAVEH: Izzy...Your kindness is only exceeded by your beauty! ShieldsFamily wrote: Dave, you are too much of a gentleman to ever be boring. J Izzy -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
Very interesting but erroneous! The source for most "Mormon Bashing" is lost income?? One would have to be inculcated with a doctrine that says all "priests" that receive income are an abomination. Thus LDS use LAYworkers. I won't call them preachers cause they can't even preach mormonism. It is a point of PRIDE with LDS "we have NO Paid ministers" Although the Apostles and Prophets receive nice stipends like appointments to boards of large corporations. http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/paidclergy.htm IS THIS MOCKERYof CHRISTIAN BELIEFS? Christian pastors "hirelings of Satan" ? In April of 1990, the Temple ceremony went through some dramatic revisions, including the portion where Lucifer hires a minister to preach what Mormons view as false doctrine (termed "the orthodox religion" in the ceremony). The pastor is first interviewed by Lucifer who asks him if he has "been to college and received training for the ministry." Lucifer tells the pastor that if he is able to convert people to his "orthodox religion," he will pay him well. Lucifer then takes the preacher to two characters portraying "Adam and Eve" and tells him they "desire religion." The preacher tries to convince Adam to believe in a God who fills the universe, yet is so small that he can dwell in a person's heart, and a God that is surrounded by a myriad of beings who have been saved by grace. He also tries to convince Adam of the perils of hell, "a lake of fire and brimstone where the wicked are cast." Adam, the "good guy" in the scenario, rejects his teachings. Of course this is intended to make Christian pastors to look like hirelings of Satan bent on convincing God's children to believe in a false gospel. Today, all mention of this minister has been dropped entirely from the ceremony. BOASTING: "It can be said also that the officers of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who labor without salaries coming out of the pockets of the members, are just as spiritually minded, have just as good judgment and wisdom in directing the temporal as well as the spiritual welfare of the people, as are any of the ministers who spend their entire time in what may be called spiritual counsel. For instance, the bishops of our wards and the presidents of our stakes and other officers give their time freely without any monetary compensation paid by members of the Church. It is equally true that the young men and women who are distributed over the face of the earth as missionaries of the Church pay their own way, or their parents do. We do not have a paid ministry, yet these brethren put in as much time in spiritual and Church duties, as do ministers of other denominations who devote their entire time, and in addition, they are under the necessity of earning their own living by their daily employment in industry. They do this because they have an abiding testimony of the divinity of the work the Church requires of them" (President Joseph Fielding Smith Answers to Gospel Questions, Vol. 3, p.79). STD WORKS ALLOW PAID MINISTRY DC 42:71-73 statesbishops, elders and high priests are to receive "a just remuneration for all their services." "The law of remuneration is that those who administer in spiritual affairs must have their stewardships and labor for their living, 'even as the members.' This is wisdom. For in that position they are absolutely independent and can preach the truth without fear. Those who administer in temporal affairs and give their entire time to public business are to have a just remuneration. If they were to earn a living for themselves they could not give all their time and energy to the community" (Doctrine and Covenants Commentary, 1973 edition, p.234). PAID BY THE CHURCH Thirty-nine general officers and the presidents of missions are given living Allowances." (What of the Mormons?, p.4) Salt Lake Tribune, Dec.8, 1988 "The $1.2 million condominium at 40N. State that is home to the president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will be exempt from property taxes, Salt Lake County commissioners ruled Tuesday." Wall Street Journal, Nov.9, 1983, the salary given to a Seventywas reported to be $40,000 What would that be today with inflation? 1870 census Brigham Young declared personal property worth $102,000 and real estate valued at $1,010,600." (The Lion of the Lord, by Stanley Hirshson, Knopf Pub., 1969, p.247) David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Blaine wrote: When one who practices priestcraft sees his incomebeing diminished because his patrons are being convertedto Mormonism, he strikes out against the religion, hopingto destroy it. This is the source of most present-dayMormon bashing.Very interesting thoughts, Blaine. Thanks for sharing your perspective here.Peace be with you.David Miller. --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from
Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity
You are accusing him of something he has never professed. Standard "fair" for this crowd! Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 07:25:57 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You are such a bore, David. If one eats nearly all the time -- postponement is a good thing. If one thinks to stop at Burger King for the third time today, postponement is a good thing. And it is noteating more often, David; it is eating smaller meals more often -- postponement working again. If I think to eat a candy bar afterhours, postponement is a good thing. What is wrong with you ppl - you break the Royal Law so far as David Miller is concerned daily. Where's the love?? You are quick to throw out everything but Christ's two commandments and you break both on a daily basis. And why do I think it will workwith sin -- because I am told that if I flee youthful lusts, I will have victory -- on any occasion thaI I do this, a victorywill be mine. The addict, if not miraculously delivered (and most[say 99%] are not), his only hope is sin management -- postponement. If the postponement is successful, he can build on that success. This must be where your "incarnational gospel" fails. Jesus did not go to the cross for "sin management" He defeated sin andfreed us fromit's inheritance, power, and presence ... However, this reality seems to threaten you. " ... who do not sin ." No one on this list fits that description, David -- lest of which is you. Let me make myself clear: THE number one reason why I do not believe in sinless perfectionism is YOU. That's it. You are accusing him of something he has never professed. I have read DM's views on sin and have seen him admit that he misses it, repents and goes on. When consistent that sin should eventually fall away. Why do you persist in accusing him? The blood of bulls and goats covered sin which was a type of sin management. The blood of Christ remits them. Big difference. You is the reason for the season.I think it funny that you equate "humility" with my giving attention to you or people like you. Arrogance, pride and conceit plague us all, don't they David? You may speak for yourself - otherwise all you are doing is becoming the devil's advocate JD. Back to "postponement." Eatng is not my only issue -- and the management principle has, in deed, worked in a number of areas in my life. JD Management does not get rid of the problem. This is what Israel thought they would do when God told them to get rid of the Canaanite Nations. They partially obeyed but decided to allow some to stay and be water carriers for them and these enemies rose up and bit them in the rear end. Something to think about. jt -Original Message-From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 06:43:36 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity John wrote: I was illustrating "sin management," David. Who said anything about slowing down ones metabolism? No me. But let's stay on track and avoid a food fight. You were using the problem of obesity to illustrate the value of sin management. You used the postponement of eating as an analogy to validate the concept of postponing sin. Well, if it does not work for fat people, why do you think it will work with sin? Let's just say that I was drawing upon your analogy for two reasons: 1) to help anyone struggling with being overweight, and 2) to illustrate that your teaching concerning sin is probably about just as effective as your success in managing your weight. Look, you have told us often that you are fat and that you continue to sin. Why do you presume to teach us how to manage these issues? Don't you think a little more humility is in order? How about trying to hear a little more from those on the list who are not fat and who do not sin? Or are you going to reject the idea that some people on the list are not fat, just as you reject the idea that some people on this list do not continue to sin? Humility, John, humility. Is that too much to ask? Not everybody on the list is fat, and not everybody on the list sins. In other words, not everybody is just like you. Think about that, and think about how such facts should flavor the way you communicate on this list. More humility is in order here. Spoken firmly in love, wishing you only the best in Christ, David Miller. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
Do you find that this is a Bible principle that God uses Heathen Pagans, Heretics especially when conveying His word? Yes, I beleive God can use whatever He chooses, including the Pagans and Heretics. God has used the UF Pagans several times when I was preaching to draw crowds and ask important questions. It is certainly a Biblical princible that God can and does use evil for His own purpose, Balaam's situation with the donkey being a good example. Or when Joseph's brothers sold him into slavery. That was pretty evil, and God used it. I think I recall in Philippians 1, where Paul speaks of some preaching Christ in envy and strife. Paul just rejoices at this: What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. And I think I feel the same way. I do not like the NIV, I think it is a despicable translation, and I let my Christian brothers and sisters know why I prefer the KJV version. But the truth is, the NIV is a bible, and the Holy Spirit can use it. I don't like it, but Christ is still being preached through it and therein do I rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. Blessings --- Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the Lord can and does use His word in all its translations Do you find that this is a Bible principle that God uses Heathen Pagans, Heretics especially when conveying His word? God has used Donkeys, in the past. Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree, Lance, that the Lord can and does use His word in all its translations, including the NIV with its errors and sodomite commitee members. I have found that the newest generation overwhelmingly favors the NIV translation, and when we are out preaching, many college students by my side use the translation. These friends of mine have led people to Christ with the NIV Bible open in their lap. So, yes, God can and does use the errant translations. But just because the Holy Spirit is able to use any translation does not mean that any and every translation retains merit. God can use evil for good, as Joseph points out in Genesis 50. Whether or not God can use a translation doesn't clear up a translation's flaws. Blessings! (Man. Leave your e-mail unchecked for a weekend and the next thing you know, you've got unread e-mails up to your eye balls. :-) ) --- Lance Muir wrote: It is wise for one to remember that the Word of God is Jesus Christ. It is also wise to remember that His (God's) Words do not return void. Take care, Kevin, not confuse your role with that of the Spirit of God. I've found God to be at work EVEN THROUGH THE KJV! Just imagine! Speaking of 'imagine': Imagine yourself able to see every believer at once on the entire globe. Imagine them to be lit up like a little light. Then, imagine yourself able to see the Bible (or portion thereof) they had with them. How many of them do you believe are carrying the KJV? Now, don't make a smart remark, please. Tell me what you make of that observation. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 02, 2005 16:48 Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz the work of Catholic scholars It is amazing how some can stand the facts on their head. The UBS text used for the Moderne Bibles: Jesuit cardinal Carlo Maria Martini (1927- ) is the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Milan. Since 1967, has been one of the editors of the United Bible Societies Greek New Testament. His diocese in Europe is the largest in the world, with two thousand priests and five million laity. He is Professor of New Testament Textual Criticism at the Pontifical Biblical Institute in Rome. He is also President of the Council of European Bishop's Conferences. A Time magazine, article reported that Martini brought together a syncretistic convocation of over 100 religious leaders from around the world to promote a new age, one-world religion. In addressing this meeting, Mikhail Gorbachev said, We need to synthesize a new religion for thinking men that will universalize that religion for the world and lead us into a new age. Bruce Metzger modernist and approved ROMANIST New Oxford Annotated Bible RSV 1973 The first edition 1962 was the first Protestant annotated edition of the Bible to be approved by a Roman authority. It was given an imprimatur in 1966 by Cardinal Cushing, Archbishop of Boston, Massachusetts HERETICS Eugene Nida is the father of the blasphemous dynamic equivalency theory of Bible translation. Nida was the Executive Secretary of the Translations Department of the United Bible Societies from 1943 to 1980. As to his view of biblical inspiration, Nida says, ... God's revelation involved limitations. ... Biblical revelation is not absolute and all divine revelation is
Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity
While both acknowledging the possibility of and, supplying us with an personal life illustration for, self-decpetion yet does David argue against it's application to himself personally for reasons of: 1. The Person of Christ 2. Scripture 3. Personal experience Jesus never cooperated with sin though born fully human. You, David, cooperate (present tense) with the principle of sin (fallen nature). Having heard some of your 'story' it'd appear that is is less of a cooperative venture than it used to be. IMO no part of scripture hints at the possibility of a state of being where such cooperation willy fully cease. This being the case, IMO, you misread your personal experience and, therefore are self-deceived. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 03, 2005 07:50 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity Lance wrote: I am, once again, calling you self deceived. I'm tempted to hear you, Lance, because a man who has deceived himself would not know it unless someone pointed it out to him. The problems associated with me accepting what you say is 1) the person Jesus Christ, 2) the Scriptures which you do not seem to hold in high regard, and 3) my experience in life with having victory over sin. Could it be that I am deceived? I suppose so, but if so, then Jesus Christ and the Scriptures are the ones who deceived me. I think that is a problem with me hearing you on this matter. Lance wrote: You eat every day, you breath every day and, you 'remnant' every day. You have, in the past, agreed with the idea of the Incarnation, that Christ was made flesh and thereby condemned sin in the flesh. Well, Jesus ate every day (when he was not fasting), he breathed every day, and, well... did Jesus also 'remnant' every day? This is not a rhetorical question. I would like an answer. I want to understand you and I consider your charge that I deceive myself very seriously. I am thinking right now of a science project I did in high school in which I deceived myself. I designed what I thought was a high efficiency engine without accounting for efficiency problems with the conductivity of wires and heat loss to the atmosphere. In essence, I deceived myself into a false concept, and yet nobody, not my science teacher nor anybody else tried to help me see the problem. I received an A for the project and even received a top award from the Army for that science project at a science fair. It was not any of my teachers, nor any of the judges, nor any qualified person who helped me understand the problem. I had this gnawing notion that something was wrong, but I could not put my finger on it. Then one unknown man walked up, looked at it with interest, then insulted me by telling me that it flat out would not work. I asked him why. He took time to explain it to me, and although I initially raised objections to what he was saying, he kept answering with good answers until he had communicated enough that I suddenly understood the problem and realized how worthless my whole science project was. That was a good experience for me, because I realize that we cannot judge truth by what passes under the nose of those in authority over us. I also learned that we can deceive ourselves if we fail to consider just one little important fact. If you have that fact about this issue, I will try hard to see it, but if you don't, then perhaps you are the one who is deceived about there not being victory over sin through faith in Jesus Christ. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
The Bible is not the sole witness BUT it is a safe bet for you KNUCKLE HEADS that have PRIVATE DOCTRINES. If your doctrine goes against the Word of God, I'll take the Bible everytime. It is the safe bet. Not some Prophet, not some spirit, not some teaching! IS 8:20 "If they speak not according to this word, THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM" God says "NO LIGHT"! This is not to say that God can not reveal things in other ways. BUT Whatever is revealed BETTER LINE UP WITH WHAT HE ALREADY REVEALED in the word!! 1 CO 14 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 1 JN 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Ignore at your own peril, for thus starts most Heresies Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David Miller wrote: Kevin wrote: The Word of God is recorded in the Bible that we may know what is required of us and that we might DO IT! The Bible is not the sole witness of what is required of us, Kevin. Jesus promised us the Spirit, not the Bible. Please try to remember that. Teaching a relationship with Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit is not contrary to the Bible. Let me ask you this question. Suppose we just cut out the last chapter of Mark out of the KJV Bible? Would that book that now has error in it because some of it was removed still be able to be used to share Christ and help cause people to receive the Spirit and know what is required of them and what they should do? Let me ask you another question. Suppose a man believes upon the Lord through the preaching of the Word of God, but he has no Bible? The man lives a year without any Bible at all, but he prays and seeks to do what is right before the Lord. Frequently other men come and preach and teach to him the truth of God, but the man still has never read the Bible. He relies upon information he receives from those preachers and teachers who walk in the Truth and have the Word of God written on their hearts. By faith and the Spirit this man also receives the Word of God written upon his heart by a work of God. Would you think that such a man could not be saved because he has no Bible based upon the Received Text? ===Might we not look at it this way? God can use any Bible available to reveal Himself to any person, any where, or God can reveal Himself with no Bible at all. Anyone who knows the power of God knows that this is not only possible, but has been done many times. The problem with some versions is not that God cannot use them, but that Satan can. Satan can take some of the new versions and use them to preach a different Gospel and a different Savior, eg:Judith. Admittedly, he can do the same with the KJV, but not as easily.Just something to think about.Terry__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
Do you happen to know for a certainty upon which mss all foreign translation are based? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 03, 2005 08:22 Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz You asked me not to give a smart remark. I complied. I answered as best I could since I really did not understandyour question State it more clearly I will answer. I do not evade questions. The new bible problem exists in other languages also. There are plenty of translations based on the Textus Receptus in other languages that are the pure word of God for the people of that language. There are also corrupt bibles in those languages based on the corrupt greek text of the Jesuits Westcott Hort Who worships pages, covers and indexing? Looks like you are the one that needs to lighten up, how absurd! Why is it that you inteligensia always have to mischaracterize? Why not deal with the issue unless it is you who is not able to. I guess this is the best you can do given the facts. Fact is the new bibles are hopelessly corrupted. Are far as lightening up, I will never as long as God gives me strength. I do not want to face His rebuke, for suffering FALSE Teachers! Rev 2:20 I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. WWJD What would JUDITH do?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is both evasive and, a non-answer. I've done the same myself multitudinous times on TT so, I can't hold your feet to the fire. However, one can't fail to notice that both Christine and yourself have no real answer for this reality. Which reality? The reality that the majority (pun intended) of believers on the globe read from a bible which is not the counterpart to the KJV. May I ask those of you (Kevin, Christine and David) who worship the pages, covers and indexing to lighten up a bit and, let God be God. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 02, 2005 21:23 Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz The Bibles that have out out lies and ERRORS in them can not possibly be God's word. It may say Bible, it may look like a Bible, but a FALSE WITNESS utters lies! The Word of God is recorded in the Bible that we may know what is required of us and that we might DO IT! Tell me what you make of that observation. Well obviously those that do not speak ENGLISH would have a Bible that is based on the Recieved text. Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is wise for one to remember that the Word of God is Jesus Christ. It is also wise to remember that His (God's) Words do not return void. Take care, Kevin, not confuse your role with that of the Spirit of God. I've found God to be at work EVEN THROUGH THE KJV! Just imagine! Speaking of 'imagine': Imagine yourself able to see every believer at once on the entire globe. Imagine them to be lit up like a little light. Then, imagine yourself able to see the Bible (or portion thereof) they had with them. How many of them do you believe are carrying the KJV? Now, don't make a smart remark, please. Tell me what you make of that observation. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 02, 2005 16:48 Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz the work of Catholic scholars It is amazing how some can stand the facts on their head. The UBS text used for the Moderne Bibles: Jesuit cardinal Carlo Maria Martini (1927- ) is the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Milan. Since 1967,has been one of the editors of the United Bible Societies Greek New Testament. His diocese in Europe is the largest in the world, with two thousand priests and five million "laity." He is Professor of New Testament Textual Criticism at the Pontifical Biblical Institute in Rome. He is also President of the Council of European Bishop's Conferences. A Time magazine, article reported that Martini brought together a syncretistic convocation of over 100 religious leaders from around the world to promote a new age, one-world religion. In addressing this meeting, Mikhail Gorbachev said, "We need
Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
I have no problem with Modern english It has NO bearing upon the issue I have no problem with Modern translations ONLY those that flow from the corrupted stream of the Critical text. I did answer. I am not familiar with the two you cited. I also accept foriegn language translations based upon the TR. David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin, you never answered me about modern English versions that are not based upon the WH text. How do you feel about them? David. Discover Yahoo! Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM & more. Check it out!
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
Ask JudithLance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you happen to know for a certainty upon which mss all foreign translation are based? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 03, 2005 08:22 Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz You asked me not to give a smart remark. I complied. I answered as best I could since I really did not understandyour question State it more clearly I will answer. I do not evade questions. The new bible problem exists in other languages also. There are plenty of translations based on the Textus Receptus in other languages that are the pure word of God for the people of that language. There are also corrupt bibles in those languages based on the corrupt greek text of the Jesuits Westcott Hort Who worships pages, covers and indexing? Looks like you are the one that needs to lighten up, how absurd! Why is it that you inteligensia always have to mischaracterize? Why not deal with the issue unless it is you who is not able to. I guess this is the best you can do given the facts. Fact is the new bibles are hopelessly corrupted. Are far as lightening up, I will never as long as God gives me strength. I do not want to face His rebuke, for suffering FALSE Teachers! Rev 2:20 I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. WWJD What would JUDITH do?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is both evasive and, a non-answer. I've done the same myself multitudinous times on TT so, I can't hold your feet to the fire. However, one can't fail to notice that both Christine and yourself have no real answer for this reality. Which reality? The reality that the majority (pun intended) of believers on the globe read from a bible which is not the counterpart to the KJV. May I ask those of you (Kevin, Christine and David) who worship the pages, covers and indexing to lighten up a bit and, let God be God. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 02, 2005 21:23 Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz The Bibles that have out out lies and ERRORS in them can not possibly be God's word. It may say Bible, it may look like a Bible, but a FALSE WITNESS utters lies! The Word of God is recorded in the Bible that we may know what is required of us and that we might DO IT! Tell me what you make of that observation. Well obviously those that do not speak ENGLISH would have a Bible that is based on the Recieved text. Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is wise for one to remember that the Word of God is Jesus Christ. It is also wise to remember that His (God's) Words do not return void. Take care, Kevin, not confuse your role with that of the Spirit of God. I've found God to be at work EVEN THROUGH THE KJV! Just imagine! Speaking of 'imagine': Imagine yourself able to see every believer at once on the entire globe. Imagine them to be lit up like a little light. Then, imagine yourself able to see the Bible (or portion thereof) they had with them. How many of them do you believe are carrying the KJV? Now, don't make a smart remark, please. Tell me what you make of that observation. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 02, 2005 16:48 Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz the work of Catholic scholars It is amazing how some can stand the facts on their head. The UBS text used for the Moderne Bibles: Jesuit cardinal Carlo Maria Martini (1927- ) is the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Milan. Since 1967,has been one of the editors of the United Bible Societies Greek New Testament. His diocese in Europe is the largest in the world, with two thousand priests and five million "laity." He is Professor of New Testament Textual Criticism at the Pontifical Biblical Institute in Rome. He is also President of the Council of European Bishop's Conferences. A Time magazine, article reported that Martini brought together a syncretistic convocation of over 100 religious leaders from around the world to promote a new age, one-world religion. In addressing this meeting, Mikhail Gorbachev said, "We need to synthesize a new religion for thinking men that will universalize that religion for the world and lead us into a new age." Bruce Metzger modernist and approved ROMANIST New Oxford Annotated Bible RSV 1973 The first edition 1962 was the first Protestant annotated edition of the Bible to be approved by a Roman authority. It was given an imprimatur in 1966 by Cardinal Cushing, Archbishop of Boston, Massachusetts HERETICS Eugene Nida is the father of the blasphemous dynamic equivalency theory of Bible translation. Nida was the Executive Secretary of the Translations Department of the United Bible Societies from 1943 to 1980. As to his view of biblical
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
I meant as custodians of His word. I believe we agree on God's ability to use evil "God can draw a Straight Line with a crooked stick"! He has a wrench for Every nut!Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you find that this is a Bible principle that God uses Heathen Pagans, Heretics especially when conveying His word?Yes, I beleive God can use whatever He chooses,including the Pagans and Heretics. God has used the UFPagans several times when I was preaching to drawcrowds and ask important questions. It is certainly aBiblical princible that God can and does use evil forHis own purpose, Balaam's situation with the donkeybeing a good example. Or when Joseph's brothers soldhim into slavery. That was pretty evil, and God usedit. I think I recall in Philippians 1, where Paul speaksof some preaching Christ in "envy and strife." Pauljust rejoices at this: "What then? notwithstanding,every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ ispreached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and willrejoice." And I think I feel the same way. I do notlike the NIV, I think it is a despicable translation,and I let my Christian brothers and sisters know why Iprefer the KJV version. But the truth is, the NIV is abible, and the Holy Spirit can use it. I don't likeit, but Christ is still being preached through it andtherein do I rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. Blessings--- Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: the Lord can and does use His word in all its translations Do you find that this is a Bible principle that God uses Heathen Pagans, Heretics especially when conveying His word? God has used Donkeys, in the past. Christine Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: I agree, Lance, that the Lord can and does use His word in all its translations, including the NIV with its errors and sodomite commitee members. I have found that the newest generation overwhelmingly favors the NIV translation, and when we are out preaching, many college students by my side use the translation. These friends of mine have led people to Christ with the NIV Bible open in their lap. So, yes, God can and does use the errant translations. But just because the Holy Spirit is able to use any translation does not mean that any and every translation retains merit. God can use evil for good, as Joseph points out in Genesis 50. Whether or not God can use a translation doesn't clear up a translation's flaws. Blessings! (Man. Leave your e-mail unchecked for a weekend and the next thing you know, you've got unread e-mails up to your eye balls. :-) ) --- Lance Muir wrote: It is wise for one to remember that the Word of God is Jesus Christ. It is also wise to remember that His (God's) Words do not return void. Take care, Kevin, not confuse your role with that of the Spirit of God. I've found God to be at work EVEN THROUGH THE KJV! Just imagine!Speaking of 'imagine': Imagine yourself able to see every believer at once on the entire globe. Imagine them to be lit up like a little light. Then, imagine yourself able to see the Bible (or portion thereof) they had with them. How many of them do you believe are carrying the KJV? Now, don't make a smart remark, please. Tell me what you make of that observation. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 02, 2005 16:48 Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz the work of Catholic scholars It is amazing how some can stand the facts on their head.The UBS text used for the Moderne Bibles: Jesuit cardinal Carlo Maria Martini (1927- ) is the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Milan. Since 1967, has been one of the editors of the United Bible Societies Greek New Testament. His diocese in Europe is the largest in the world, with two thousand priests and five million "laity." He is Professor of New Testament Textual Criticism at the Pontifical Biblical Institute in Rome. He is also President of the Council of European Bishop's Conferences. A Time magazine, article reported that Martini brought together a syncretistic convocation of over 100 religious leaders from around the world to promote a new age, one-world religion. In addressing this meeting, Mikhail Gorbachev said, "We need to synthesize a new religion for thinking men that will universalize that religion for the world and lead us into a new age." Bruce Metzger modernist and approved ROMANIST New Oxford Annotated Bible RSV 1973 The first edition 1962 was the first Protestant annotated edition of the Bible to be approved by a Roman authority. It was given an imprimatur in 1966 by Cardinal Cushing, Archbishop of Boston, MassachusettsHERETICS Eugene Nida is the father of the blasphemous dynamic equivalency theory of Bible translation. Nida was the Executive Secretary of the Translations Department of the United Bible Societies from 1943 to 1980. As to his view of biblical inspiration, Nida says, "... God's revelation involved limitations. ...
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
This then is your direct answer to my direct question? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 03, 2005 12:45 Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz Ask JudithLance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you happen to know for a certainty upon which mss all foreign translation are based? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 03, 2005 08:22 Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz You asked me not to give a smart remark. I complied. I answered as best I could since I really did not understandyour question State it more clearly I will answer. I do not evade questions. The new bible problem exists in other languages also. There are plenty of translations based on the Textus Receptus in other languages that are the pure word of God for the people of that language. There are also corrupt bibles in those languages based on the corrupt greek text of the Jesuits Westcott Hort Who worships pages, covers and indexing? Looks like you are the one that needs to lighten up, how absurd! Why is it that you inteligensia always have to mischaracterize? Why not deal with the issue unless it is you who is not able to. I guess this is the best you can do given the facts. Fact is the new bibles are hopelessly corrupted. Are far as lightening up, I will never as long as God gives me strength. I do not want to face His rebuke, for suffering FALSE Teachers! Rev 2:20 I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. WWJD What would JUDITH do?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is both evasive and, a non-answer. I've done the same myself multitudinous times on TT so, I can't hold your feet to the fire. However, one can't fail to notice that both Christine and yourself have no real answer for this reality. Which reality? The reality that the majority (pun intended) of believers on the globe read from a bible which is not the counterpart to the KJV. May I ask those of you (Kevin, Christine and David) who worship the pages, covers and indexing to lighten up a bit and, let God be God. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 02, 2005 21:23 Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz The Bibles that have out out lies and ERRORS in them can not possibly be God's word. It may say Bible, it may look like a Bible, but a FALSE WITNESS utters lies! The Word of God is recorded in the Bible that we may know what is required of us and that we might DO IT! Tell me what you make of that observation. Well obviously those that do not speak ENGLISH would have a Bible that is based on the Recieved text. Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is wise for one to remember that the Word of God is Jesus Christ. It is also wise to remember that His (God's) Words do not return void. Take care, Kevin, not confuse your role with that of the Spirit of God. I've found God to be at work EVEN THROUGH THE KJV! Just imagine! Speaking of 'imagine': Imagine yourself able to see every believer at once on the entire globe. Imagine them to be lit up like a little light. Then, imagine yourself able to see the Bible (or portion thereof) they had with them. How many of them do you believe are carrying the KJV? Now, don't make a smart remark, please. Tell me what you make of that observation. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 02, 2005 16:48 Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz the work of Catholic scholars It is amazing how some can stand the facts on their head. The UBS text used for the Moderne Bibles: Jesuit cardinal Carlo Maria Martini
Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
Paaleezzz. Do your lips crack when puckered that tightly? JD :-)-Original Message-From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 07:03:28 -0700Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH DAVEH: Izzy...Your kindness is only exceeded by your beauty!ShieldsFamily wrote: Dave, you are too much of a gentleman to ever be boring. J Izzy-- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity
Why suddenly so concerned for the truth, Deegan? do you know what I mean by "sinless perfectionism?" Jd-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:16:17 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity You are accusing him of something he has never professed. Standard "fair" for this crowd! Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 07:25:57 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You are such a bore, David. If one eats nearly all the time -- postponement is a good thing. If one thinks to stop at Burger King for the third time today, postponement is a good thing. And it is noteating more often, David; it is eating smaller meals more often -- postponement working again. If I think to eat a candy bar afterhours, postponement is a good thing. What is wrong with you ppl - you break the Royal Law so far as David Miller is concerned daily. Where's the love?? You are quick to throw out everything but Christ's two commandments and you break both on a daily basis. And why do I think it will workwith sin -- because I am told that if I flee youthful lusts, I will have victory -- on any occasion thaI I do this, a victorywill be mine. The addict, if not miraculously delivered (and most[say 99%] are not), his only hope is sin management -- postponement. If the postponement is successful, he can build on that success. This must be where your "incarnational gospel" fails. Jesus did not go to the cross for "sin management" He defeated sin andfreed us fromit's inheritance, power, and presence ... However, this reality seems to threaten you. " ... who do not sin ." No one on this list fits that description, David -- lest of which is you. Let me make myself clear: THE number one reason why I do not believe in sinless perfectionism is YOU. That's it. You are accusing him of something he has never professed. I have read DM's views on sin and have seen him admit that he misses it, repents and goes on. When consistent that sin should eventually fall away. Why do you persist in accusing him? The blood of bulls and goats covered sin which was a type of sin management. The blood of Christ remits them. Big difference. You is the reason for the season.I think it funny that you equate "humility" with my giving attention to you or people like you. Arrogance, pride and conceit plague us all, don't they David? You may speak for yourself - otherwise all you are doing is becoming the devil's advocate JD. Back to "postponement." Eatng is not my only issue -- and the management principle has, in deed, worked in a number of areas in my life. JD Management does not get rid of the problem. This is what Israel thought they would do when God told them to get rid of the Canaanite Nations. They partially obeyed but decided to allow some to stay and be water carriers for them and these enemies rose up and bit them in the rear end. Something to think about. jt -Original Message-From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 06:43:36 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity John wrote: I was illustrating "sin management," David. Who said anything about slowing down ones metabolism? No me. But let's stay on track and avoid a food fight. You were using the problem of obesity to illustrate the value of sin management. You used the postponement of eating as an analogy to validate the concept of postponing sin. Well, if it does not work for fat people, why do you think it will work with sin? Let's just say that I was drawing upon your analogy for two reasons: 1) to help anyone struggling with being overweight, and 2) to illustrate that your teaching concerning sin is probably about just as effective as your success in managing your weight. Look, you have told us often that you are fat and that you continue to sin. Why do you presume to teach us how to manage these issues? Don't you think a little more humility is in order? How about trying to hear a little more from those on the list who are not fat and who do not sin? Or are you going to reject the idea that some people on the list are not fat, just as you reject the idea that some people on this list do not continue to sin? Humility, John, humility. Is that too much to ask? Not everybody on the list is fat, and not everybody on the list sins. In other words, not everybody is just like you. Think about that, and think about how such facts should flavor the way you communicate on this list. More humility is in order here. Spoken firmly in love, wishing you only the best in Christ, David Miller. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants
Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity
Worship shapes our spirituality "...our spirituality is usually shaped more by the experience of communal worship than it is by preaching and teachingthe way we think about God and relate to God is influenced enormously by our experience of God in communal worship..Songs are especially formative. We are far more likely to find ourselves humming something we sang in church when we go home than we are to find ourselves meditating on a phrase in the sermon..(not one of yours, of course)..Christian philosopher and scientist Michael Polanyi spoke of knowledge that we simply absorb by a kind of 'osmosis' without even realizing that we have done so. This is what he refers to as 'tacit knowledge'Most Christians simply imbibe a theology through the way that they worship. .theology springs from right worship but theology also, in turn, guides and ensures right worship.There is a circular relationship between the two as healthy worship and theology support each otherhow theology can guide the kind of worship that in turn shapes people spirituality. How very true, for my wife and I, at least. Our "church of choice" is Valley Christian Center in Fresno. It is a 2000 member congregation with, perhaps, the best comtemporary worship service in the area. What Polanyi speaks of in the above quote is, perhaps, the same as that referenced by Paul in Eph. 5:18-20. There, spirit filling is an experience received on any occasion the community of saints gather togather in the sharing of song and spiritual hymns. It plays a very important part in the discipline of spiritual growth. Too much attention to the negatives expressed by some saints (including ourselves) often counters the joy and peace derived from these times of worhsip. Thanks for the words JD
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
WhenI find onewith error I throw it back on the Trash heap where it came from. How much more REsearch do I need when I know about Judith? Some translations will require more research, but since I talk no foriegn Languages, I do not need to concern myself with such, EH?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This then is your direct answer to my direct question? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 03, 2005 12:45 Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz Ask JudithLance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you happen to know for a certainty upon which mss all foreign translation are based? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 03, 2005 08:22 Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz You asked me not to give a smart remark. I complied. I answered as best I could since I really did not understandyour question State it more clearly I will answer. I do not evade questions. The new bible problem exists in other languages also. There are plenty of translations based on the Textus Receptus in other languages that are the pure word of God for the people of that language. There are also corrupt bibles in those languages based on the corrupt greek text of the Jesuits Westcott Hort Who worships pages, covers and indexing? Looks like you are the one that needs to lighten up, how absurd! Why is it that you inteligensia always have to mischaracterize? Why not deal with the issue unless it is you who is not able to. I guess this is the best you can do given the facts. Fact is the new bibles are hopelessly corrupted. Are far as lightening up, I will never as long as God gives me strength. I do not want to face His rebuke, for suffering FALSE Teachers! Rev 2:20 I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. WWJD What would JUDITH do?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is both evasive and, a non-answer. I've done the same myself multitudinous times on TT so, I can't hold your feet to the fire. However, one can't fail to notice that both Christine and yourself have no real answer for this reality. Which reality? The reality that the majority (pun intended) of believers on the globe read from a bible which is not the counterpart to the KJV. May I ask those of you (Kevin, Christine and David) who worship the pages, covers and indexing to lighten up a bit and, let God be God. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 02, 2005 21:23 Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz The Bibles that have out out lies and ERRORS in them can not possibly be God's word. It may say Bible, it may look like a Bible, but a FALSE WITNESS utters lies! The Word of God is recorded in the Bible that we may know what is required of us and that we might DO IT! Tell me what you make of that observation. Well obviously those that do not speak ENGLISH would have a Bible that is based on the Recieved text. Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is wise for one to remember that the Word of God is Jesus Christ. It is also wise to remember that His (God's) Words do not return void. Take care, Kevin, not confuse your role with that of the Spirit of God. I've found God to be at work EVEN THROUGH THE KJV! Just imagine! Speaking of 'imagine': Imagine yourself able to see every believer at once on the entire globe. Imagine them to be lit up like a little light. Then, imagine yourself able to see the Bible (or portion thereof) they had with them. How many of them do you believe are carrying the KJV? Now, don't make a smart remark, please. Tell me what you make of that observation. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 02, 2005 16:48 Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz the work of Catholic scholars It is amazing how some can stand the facts on their head. The UBS text used for the Moderne Bibles: Jesuit cardinal Carlo Maria Martini (1927- ) is the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Milan. Since 1967,has been one of the editors of the United Bible Societies Greek New Testament. His diocese in Europe is the largest in the world, with two thousand priests and five million "laity." He is Professor of New Testament Textual Criticism at the Pontifical Biblical Institute in Rome. He is also President of the Council of European Bishop's Conferences. A Time magazine, article reported that Martini brought together a syncretistic convocation of over 100 religious leaders from around the world to promote a new age, one-world religion. In addressing this meeting, Mikhail Gorbachev said, "We need to synthesize a new religion for thinking men that will universalize that religion for the world and lead us into a new age." Bruce Metzger
Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity
do you know what I mean by "sinless perfectionism?" Your definition or the standard, which do you want? It is some kinda KENtuckee snake handler![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why suddenly so concerned for the truth, Deegan? do you know what I mean by "sinless perfectionism?" Jd-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:16:17 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity You are accusing him of something he has never professed. Standard "fair" for this crowd! Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 07:25:57 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You are such a bore, David. If one eats nearly all the time -- postponement is a good thing. If one thinks to stop at Burger King for the third time today, postponement is a good thing. And it is noteating more often, David; it is eating smaller meals more often -- postponement working again. If I think to eat a candy bar afterhours, postponement is a good thing. What is wrong with you ppl - you break the Royal Law so far as David Miller is concerned daily. Where's the love?? You are quick to throw out everything but Christ's two commandments and you break both on a daily basis. And why do I think it will workwith sin -- because I am told that if I flee youthful lusts, I will have victory -- on any occasion thaI I do this, a victorywill be mine. The addict, if not miraculously delivered (and most[say 99%] are not), his only hope is sin management -- postponement. If the postponement is successful, he can build on that success. This must be where your "incarnational gospel" fails. Jesus did not go to the cross for "sin management" He defeated sin andfreed us fromit's inheritance, power, and presence ... However, this reality seems to threaten you. " ... who do not sin ." No one on this list fits that description, David -- lest of which is you. Let me make myself clear: THE number one reason why I do not believe in sinless perfectionism is YOU. That's it. You are accusing him of something he has never professed. I have read DM's views on sin and have seen him admit that he misses it, repents and goes on. When consistent that sin should eventually fall away. Why do you persist in accusing him? The blood of bulls and goats covered sin which was a type of sin management. The blood of Christ remits them. Big difference. You is the reason for the season.I think it funny that you equate "humility" with my giving attention to you or people like you. Arrogance, pride and conceit plague us all, don't they David? You may speak for yourself - otherwise all you are doing is becoming the devil's advocate JD. Back to "postponement." Eatng is not my only issue -- and the management principle has, in deed, worked in a number of areas in my life. JD Management does not get rid of the problem. This is what Israel thought they would do when God told them to get rid of the Canaanite Nations. They partially obeyed but decided to allow some to stay and be water carriers for them and these enemies rose up and bit them in the rear end. Something to think about. jt -Original Message-From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 06:43:36 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity John wrote: I was illustrating "sin management," David. Who said anything about slowing down ones metabolism? No me. But let's stay on track and avoid a food fight. You were using the problem of obesity to illustrate the value of sin management. You used the postponement of eating as an analogy to validate the concept of postponing sin. Well, if it does not work for fat people, why do you think it will work with sin? Let's just say that I was drawing upon your analogy for two reasons: 1) to help anyone struggling with being overweight, and 2) to illustrate that your teaching concerning sin is probably about just as effective as your success in managing your weight. Look, you have told us often that you are fat and that you continue to sin. Why do you presume to teach us how to manage these issues? Don't you think a little more humility is in order? How about trying to hear a little more from those on the list who are not fat and who do not sin? Or are you going to reject the idea that some people on the list are not fat, just as you reject the idea that some people on this list do not continue to sin? Humility, John, humility. Is that too much to ask? Not everybody on the list is fat, and not everybody on the list sins. In other words, not everybody is just like you. Think about that, and think about how such facts should flavor the way you communicate on this list. More humility is in order here. Spoken firmly in love, wishing you only the best in Christ, David Miller. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity
Worship shapes our spirituality Snacking shapes our posterior, Theology sometimes shapes our interpretation [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Worship shapes our spirituality "...our spirituality is usually shaped more by the experience of communal worship than it is by preaching and teachingthe way we think about God and relate to God is influenced enormously by our experience of God in communal worship..Songs are especially formative. We are far more likely to find ourselves humming something we sang in church when we go home than we are to find ourselves meditating on a phrase in the sermon..(not one of yours, of course)..Christian philosopher and scientist Michael Polanyi spoke of knowledge that we simply absorb by a kind of 'osmosis' without even realizing that we have done so. This is what he refers to as 'tacit knowledge'Most Christians simply imbibe a theology through the way that they worship. .theology springs from right worship but theology also, in turn, guides and ensures right worship.There is a circular relationship between the two as healthy worship and theology support each otherhow theology can guide the kind of worship that in turn shapes people spirituality. How very true, for my wife and I, at least. Our "church of choice" is Valley Christian Center in Fresno. It is a 2000 member congregation with, perhaps, the best comtemporary worship service in the area. What Polanyi speaks of in the above quote is, perhaps, the same as that referenced by Paul in Eph. 5:18-20. There, spirit filling is an experience received on any occasion the community of saints gather togather in the sharing of song and spiritual hymns. It plays a very important part in the discipline of spiritual growth. Too much attention to the negatives expressed by some saints (including ourselves) often counters the joy and peace derived from these times of worhsip. Thanks for the words JD Discover Yahoo! Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM & more. Check it out!
Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity
It plays a very important part in the discipline of spiritual growth. Amen. I realized recently that the worship songs I sing have taught me a sort of spiritual jealousy, where I wanted to mean those songs from my heart when I sang them. This one song had a line You can offer her anything her affections are all for Him only, that showed me how I should desire my God. Though I wouldn't rate it over preaching and teaching, as quoted in Lance's post, I do love worship! Blessings! --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Worship shapes our spirituality ...our spirituality is usually shaped more by the experience of communal worship than it is by preaching and teachingthe way we think about God and relate to God is influenced enormously by our experience of God in communal worship..Songs are especially formative. We are far more likely to find ourselves humming something we sang in church when we go home than we are to find ourselves meditating on a phrase in the sermon..(not one of yours, of course)..Christian philosopher and scientist Michael Polanyi spoke of knowledge that we simply absorb by a kind of 'osmosis' without even realizing that we have done so. This is what he refers to as 'tacit knowledge' Most Christians simply imbibe a theology through the way that they worship. .theology springs from right worship but theology also, in turn, guides and ensures right worship.There is a circular relationship between the two as healthy worship and theology support each otherhow theology can guide the kind of worship that in turn shapes people spirituality. How very true, for my wife and I, at least. Our church of choice is Valley Christian Center in Fresno. It is a 2000 member congregation with, perhaps, the best comtemporary worship service in the area. What Polanyi speaks of in the above quote is, perhaps, the same as that referenced by Paul in Eph. 5:18-20. There, spirit filling is an experience received on any occasion the community of saints gather togather in the sharing of song and spiritual hymns. It plays a very important part in the discipline of spiritual growth. Too much attention to the negatives expressed by some saints (including ourselves) often counters the joy and peace derived from these times of worhsip. Thanks for the words JD __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
Congratulations. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 6:34 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH Yes. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 03, 2005 08:01 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH I dont know anyone who worships a book. Do you? Iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 4:18 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH So then, does worshiping a book make one an idolater? Are such on an equal footing with a liar? I'm only askin' mind ya. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 03, 2005 01:53 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH In a message dated 6/1/2005 9:09:01 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Satan is an imitator. And a liar. So was JS. He never entered into The Kingdom for sure. Izzy Blaine: Is this your best shot Izzy? If it is, I'd say you are struggling.
RE: [TruthTalk] Obesity
ROFL!!! Too funny! JD, if you had success in an area, what would there be to land on like hungry animals??? Dont you have a bike helmet or something? Izzy So tell us, in what areas have you had success with it? Me tell you and the likes of Deegan and Izzy? Fat chance on that. You guys would land on that like hungry animals. You (all) are not ones to be trusted with such information. That is why you will never see a bio from me. It wwould be used to beat me over the head.
RE: [TruthTalk] Obesity
I can just hear JD saying, But HE did it FIRST!!! (grow up!) Izzy You are accusing him of something he has never professed. Standard fair for this crowd!
Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity
Christine, do you equate singing songs in church with worship? Are there any other types of worship than singing songs? Perry From: Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:47:35 -0700 (PDT) It plays a very important part in the discipline of spiritual growth. Amen. I realized recently that the worship songs I sing have taught me a sort of spiritual jealousy, where I wanted to mean those songs from my heart when I sang them. This one song had a line You can offer her anything her affections are all for Him only, that showed me how I should desire my God. Though I wouldn't rate it over preaching and teaching, as quoted in Lance's post, I do love worship! Blessings! --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Worship shapes our spirituality ...our spirituality is usually shaped more by the experience of communal worship than it is by preaching and teachingthe way we think about God and relate to God is influenced enormously by our experience of God in communal worship..Songs are especially formative. We are far more likely to find ourselves humming something we sang in church when we go home than we are to find ourselves meditating on a phrase in the sermon..(not one of yours, of course)..Christian philosopher and scientist Michael Polanyi spoke of knowledge that we simply absorb by a kind of 'osmosis' without even realizing that we have done so. This is what he refers to as 'tacit knowledge' Most Christians simply imbibe a theology through the way that they worship. .theology springs from right worship but theology also, in turn, guides and ensures right worship.There is a circular relationship between the two as healthy worship and theology support each otherhow theology can guide the kind of worship that in turn shapes people spirituality. How very true, for my wife and I, at least. Our church of choice is Valley Christian Center in Fresno. It is a 2000 member congregation with, perhaps, the best comtemporary worship service in the area. What Polanyi speaks of in the above quote is, perhaps, the same as that referenced by Paul in Eph. 5:18-20. There, spirit filling is an experience received on any occasion the community of saints gather togather in the sharing of song and spiritual hymns. It plays a very important part in the discipline of spiritual growth. Too much attention to the negatives expressed by some saints (including ourselves) often counters the joy and peace derived from these times of worhsip. Thanks for the words JD __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] Obesity
Yes, JDand how do YOU know you arent guilty of what you describe here? Could you possibly be guilty of arrogance and pride? Izzy Yes, David and some are blinded by their own sins. Arrogance and pride are among the most difficult sins to admit to because such admission would violate the principle of arrogance and pride.
RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
Dave might just win a free eye exam from my Hubby! J Iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 11:03 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH Paaleezzz. Do your lips crack when puckered that tightly? JD :-) -Original Message- From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 07:03:28 -0700 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH DAVEH: Izzy...Your kindness is only exceeded by your beauty! ShieldsFamily wrote: Dave, you are too much of a gentleman to ever be boring. J Izzy -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
Oh, good grief---why is it that liberals always fall back on those old tried and true names to call other people? If it isnt Hitler its McCarthy. Get a new, but more creative insult please. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 11:47 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz So then Kevin, in Senator McCarthy like fashion you hurl out accusations sans proof in the hope that the accusation itself will serve you well enough! I'd have though as much.
Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity
Sometimes sasmcking shapes our posterir, as well. And, "theology"usually shapes our interpretation. -Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:47:10 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity Worship shapes our spirituality Snacking shapes our posterior, Theology sometimes shapes our interpretation [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Worship shapes our spirituality "...our spirituality is usually shaped more by the experience of communal worship than it is by preaching and teachingthe way we think about God and relate to God is influenced enormously by our experience of God in communal worship..Songs are especially formative. We are far more likely to find ourselves humming something we sang in church when we go home than we are to find ourselves meditating on a phrase in the sermon..(not one of yours, of course)..Christian philosopher and scientist Michael Polanyi spoke of knowledge that we simply absorb by a kind of 'osmosis' without even realizing that we have done so. This is what he refers to as 'tacit knowledge'Most Christians simply imbibe a theology through the way that they worship. .theology springs from right worship but theology also, in turn, guides and ensures right worship.There is a circular relationship between the two as healthy worship and theology support each otherhow theology can guide the kind of worship that in turn shapes people spirituality. How very true, for my wife and I, at least. Our "church of choice" is Valley Christian Center in Fresno. It is a 2000 member congregation with, perhaps, the best comtemporary worship service in the area. What Polanyi speaks of in the above quote is, perhaps, the same as that referenced by Paul in Eph. 5:18-20. There, spirit filling is an experience received on any occasion the community of saints gather togather in the sharing of song and spiritual hymns. It plays a very important part in the discipline of spiritual growth. Too much attention to the negatives expressed by some saints (including ourselves) often counters the joy and peace derived from these times of worhsip. Thanks for the words JD Discover Yahoo!Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM more. Check it out!
Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity
Good comments. My wife and I do not look to songs for didache -- rather we score high a service that allows us to praise God and give Him His righteous due. Perhaps reflective of how we approach the Faith in total. JD-Original Message-From: Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:47:35 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity It plays a very important part in the discipline of spiritual growth. Amen. I realized recently that the worship songs I sing have taught me a sort of spiritual jealousy, where I wanted to mean those songs from my heart when I sang them. This one song had a line "You can offer her anything her affections are all for Him only," that showed me how I should desire my God. Though I wouldn't rate it over preaching and teaching, as quoted in Lance's post, I do love worship! Blessings! --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Worship shapes our spirituality "...our spirituality is usually shaped more by the experience of communal worship than it is by preaching and teachingthe way we think about God and relate to God is influenced enormously by our experience of God in communal worship..Songs are especially formative. We are far more likely to find ourselves humming something we sang in church when we go home than we are to find ourselves meditating on a phrase in the sermon..(not one of yours, of course)..Christian philosopher and scientist Michael Polanyi spoke of knowledge that we simply absorb by a kind of 'osmosis' without even realizing that we have done so. This is what he refers to as 'tacit knowledge' Most Christians simply imbibe a theology through the way that they worship. .theology springs from right worship but theology also, in turn, guides and ensures right worship.There is a circular relationship between the two as healthy worship and theology support each otherhow theology can guide the kind of worship that in turn shapes people spirituality. How very true, for my wife and I, at least. Our "church of choice" is Valley Christian Center in Fresno. It is a 2000 member congregation with, perhaps, the best comtemporary worship service in the area. What Polanyi speaks of in the above quote is, perhaps, the same as that referenced by Paul in Eph. 5:18-20. There, spirit filling is an experience received on any occasion the community of saints gather togather in the sharing of song and spiritual hymns. It plays a very important part in the discipline of spiritual growth. Too much attention to the negatives expressed by some saints (including ourselves) often counters the joy and peace derived from these times of worhsip. Thanks for the words JD __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity
Having trouble with the phrase "do you know what I mean by "sinless" perfection?" JD-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:44:39 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity do you know what I mean by "sinless perfectionism?" Your definition or the standard, which do you want? It is some kinda KENtuckee snake handler![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why suddenly so concerned for the truth, Deegan? do you know what I mean by "sinless perfectionism?" Jd-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:16:17 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity You are accusing him of something he has never professed. Standard "fair" for this crowd! Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 07:25:57 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You are such a bore, David. If one eats nearly all the time -- postponement is a good thing. If one thinks to stop at Burger King for the third time today, postponement is a good thing. And it is noteating more often, David; it is eating smaller meals more often -- postponement working again. If I think to eat a candy bar afterhours, postponement is a good thing. What is wrong with you ppl - you break the Royal Law so far as David Miller is concerned daily. Where's the love?? You are quick to throw out everything but Christ's two commandments and you break both on a daily basis. And why do I think it will workwith sin -- because I am told that if I flee youthful lusts, I will have victory -- on any occasion thaI I do this, a victorywill be mine. The addict, if not miraculously delivered (and most[say 99%] are not), his only hope is sin management -- postponement. If the postponement is successful, he can build on that success. This must be where your "incarnational gospel" fails. Jesus did not go to the cross for "sin management" He defeated sin andfreed us fromit's inheritance, power, and presence ... However, this reality seems to threaten you. " ... who do not sin ." No one on this list fits that description, David -- lest of which is you. Let me make myself clear: THE number one reason why I do not believe in sinless perfectionism is YOU. That's it. You are accusing him of something he has never professed. I have read DM's views on sin and have seen him admit that he misses it, repents and goes on. When consistent that sin should eventually fall away. Why do you persist in accusing him? The blood of bulls and goats covered sin which was a type of sin management. The blood of Christ remits them. Big difference. You is the reason for the season.I think it funny that you equate "humility" with my giving attention to you or people like you. Arrogance, pride and conceit plague us all, don't they David? You may speak for yourself - otherwise all you are doing is becoming the devil's advocate JD. Back to "postponement." Eatng is not my only issue -- and the management principle has, in deed, worked in a number of areas in my life. JD Management does not get rid of the problem. This is what Israel thought they would do when God told them to get rid of the Canaanite Nations. They partially obeyed but decided to allow some to stay and be water carriers for them and these enemies rose up and bit them in the rear end. Something to think about. jt -Original Message-From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 06:43:36 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity John wrote: I was illustrating "sin management," David. Who said anything about slowing down ones metabolism? No me. But let's stay on track and avoid a food fight. You were using the problem of obesity to illustrate the value of sin management. You used the postponement of eating as an analogy to validate the concept of postponing sin. Well, if it does not work for fat people, why do you think it will work with sin? Let's just say that I was drawing upon your analogy for two reasons: 1) to help anyone struggling with being overweight, and 2) to illustrate that your teaching concerning sin is probably about just as effective as your success in managing your weight. Look, you have told us often that you are fat and that you continue to sin. Why do you presume to teach us how to manage these issues? Don't you think a little more humility is in order? How about trying to hear a little more from those on the list who are not fat and who do not sin? Or are you going to reject the idea that some people on the list are not fat, just as you reject the idea that some people on this list do not continue to sin? Humility, John, humility. Is that too much to ask? Not everybody on the list is fat, and not everybody on the list sins. In other words, not everybody is just like you. Think about that, and think about how such facts should flavor the way you communicate on this list.
Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity
You have already expressed yourself in this negative activity, Izzy. My comments were not predictive so much as theywere a summary of how you (all) do buiness with those who disagree with you. I knew from the get go, that our good moderator, Charles Perry, could not reel you guys in -- so he really does not try. I think I can speak for Lance, Mr. G and myself in saying - your actions are expected and bring us no harm at all.That is, in fact, why we are still here. David continually refers to my "irritation" when, in fact, I AM smiling up my sleeve - as you put it. Smiling and shaking my head. But don't let meslow you down. CArry on and on and on and on. JD-Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:17:22 -0500Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Obesity ROFL!!! Too funny! JD, if you had success in an area, what would there be to land on like hungry animals??? Don?t you have a bike helmet or something? Izzy So tell us, in what areas have you had success with it? Me tell you and the likes of Deegan and Izzy? Fat chance on that. You guys would land on that like hungry animals. You (all) are not ones to be trusted with such information. That is why you will never see a bio from me. It wwould be used to beat me over the head.
Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity
Its been awhile for me, but I believe the correct phraseology "work of services" (?) If so, most of what we do our of appreciation of the Christ in our lives would be worship. Thoughts???-Original Message-From: Charles Perry Locke cpl2602@hotmail.comTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 11:19:22 -0700 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity Christine, do you equate singing songs in church with worship? Are there any other types of worship than singing songs?PerryFrom: Christine Miller verilysaid@yahoo.comReply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] ObesityDate: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:47:35 -0700 (PDT) It plays a very important part in the discipline of spiritual growth.Amen. I realized recently that the worship songs Ising have taught me a sort of spiritual jealousy,where I wanted to mean those songs from my heart whenI sang them. This one s ong had a line "You can offerher anything her affections are all for Him only,"that showed me how I should desire my God. Though Iwouldn't rate it over preaching and teaching, asquoted in Lance's post, I do love worship!Blessings!--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Worship shapes our spirituality "...our spirituality is usually shaped more by the experience of communal worship than it is by preaching and teachingthe way we think about God and relate to God is influenced enormously by our experience of God in communal worship..Songs are especially formative. We are far more likely to find ourselves humming something we sang in church when we go home than we are to find ourselves meditating on a phrase in the sermon..(not one of yours, of course)..Christian philosopher and scientist Michael Polanyi spoke of knowledge that we simply absorb by a kind of 'osmosis' without even realizing that we have done so. This is what he refers to as 'tacit knowledge' Most Christians simply imbibe a theology through the way that they worship. .theology springs from right worship but theology also, in turn, guides and ensures right worship.There is a circular relationship between the two as healthy worship and theology support each otherhow theology can guide the kind of worship that in turn shapes people spirituality.How very true, for my wife and I, at least. Our "church of choice" is Valley Christian Center in Fresno. It is a 2000 member congregation with, perhaps, the best comtemporary worship service in the area. What Polanyi speaks of in the above quote is, perhaps, the same as that referenced by Paul in Eph. 5:18-20. There, spirit filling is an experience received on any occasion the community of saints gather togather in the sharing of song and spiritual hymns. It plays a very important part in the discipline of spiritual growth. Too much attention to the negatives expressed by some saints (including ourselves) often counters the joy and peace derived from these times of worhsip. Thanks for the words JD __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection aroundhttp://mail.yahoo.com--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a f riend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity
Of course-Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:21:32 -0500Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Obesity Yes, JD?and how do YOU know you aren?t guilty of what you describe here? Could you possibly be guilty of arrogance and pride? Izzy Yes, David and some are blinded by their own sins. Arrogance and pride are among the most difficult sins to admit to because such admission would violate the principle of arrogance and pride.
Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
Ahh -- so it was grafted that served as the motivation. Of course DAvH will deny tis -- but the facts are now on the table. Another reason why I cannot type as well as some is that I am nearly legally blind. What is instore for me? JD-Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:23:30 -0500Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH Dave might just win a free eye exam from my Hubby! J Iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 11:03 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH Paaleezzz. Do your lips crack when puckered that tightly? JD :-) -Original Message-From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 07:03:28 -0700Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH DAVEH: Izzy...Your kindness is only exceeded by your beauty!ShieldsFamily wrote: Dave, you are too much of a gentleman to ever be boring. J Izzy -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
It's truly uncomfortable is it not? When (in print) you sound, often, like someone so ?yuck! Do be faithful to one of your own, Iz. Joe looks down from 'the great 'hearing in the sky.' He's on the lookout for 'commies' like homeland security is on the lookout for terrorists. It's the head in the sand thingy, Iz. You want serious? I'll give you serious! Does anyone out there know the following: One thousand people die every day in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and nearly half of these deaths are accounted for by children under five years of age. These deaths add daily to the cumulative total of 3.8 million fatalities since the crisis began in August, 1998 to the end of April 2004. This makes the DRC conflict worse than any other conflict since the end of World War II and in terms of death toll exceeds other recent crises, including Bosnia (estimated 250,000 dead), Rwanda (800,000), Kosovo (12,000),. and Darfur in Sudan (70,000) Despite this, the international community has failed to take the necessary action to alleviate the crisis. During 2004, only 42% of funding sought by the United Nations for its activities had been raised by August, while contributions by the United Sates Agency for International Assistance to DRC for 2004 have declined by almost 25% when compared with 2003. "No other recent confllict has claimed as many lives and mortality rates remain elevated at an alarming level. In spite of these unambiguous facts, the international community has not yet mobilized the necessary will or resources to effectively address the crisis," according to the latest mortality study, a joint effort by the New York based International Rescue Committee (IRC) and Australia's Burnet Institute. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 03, 2005 14:27 Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz Oh, good grief---why is it that liberals always fall back on those old tried and true names to call other people? If it isnt Hitler its McCarthy. Get a new, but more creative insult please. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Friday, June 03, 2005 11:47 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz So then Kevin, in Senator McCarthy like fashion you hurl out accusations sans proof in the hope that the accusation itself will serve you well enough! I'd have though as much.
[TruthTalk] Exerpts
On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:48:10 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Worship shapes our spirituality "...our spirituality is usually shaped more by the experience of communal worship than it is by preaching and teachingthe way we think about God and relate to God is influenced enormously by our experience of God in communal worship..Songs are especially formative. We are far more likely to find ourselves humming something we sang in church when we go home than we are to find ourselves meditating on a phrase in the sermon..(not one of yours, of course).. jt: I would disagree with the above statement Lance - Is it yours? Actually spirituality shapes worship rather than vice-versa because true worship depends upon a correct heart attitude and we do not enter God's presence just any old way - We must properly prepare ourselves to worship.. And God does not accept all of it. He spoke through the prophet Amos and told the Israel of that day that their feasts and worship times literally made him want to vomit ... He also spoke through the prophet Isaiah about a crowd who were pretty pleased with themselves and thesedescended into sheol rejoicing. Christian philosopher and scientist Michael Polanyi spoke of knowledge that we simply absorb by a kind of 'osmosis' without even realizing that we have done so. This is what he refers to as 'tacit knowledge'Most Christians simply imbibe a theology through the way that they worship. jt: This is not the way anyone is to learn let alone Christians. This is how the animals perform (by instinct). Humans must be taught, we have been given a mind so that we can think and God will reveal Himself to whomsoever He will. The only ones who imbibe should be drunks. .theology springs from right worship but theology also, in turn, guides and ensures right worship.There is a circular relationship between the two as healthy worship and theology support each otherhow theology can guide the kind of worship that in turn shapes people spirituality. jt: Just like your little trinitarian dance, round and round and round we go...
Re: [TruthTalk] Exerpts
Are we ALL as predictable as you, Judy? Given this I'm not sure why you don't just have two 'repeater' words: 'Amen' for David (by extension, Christine), Izzie Kevin. 'Nein' for all of the rest of us. The time you could save, Judy! - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 03, 2005 15:58 Subject: [TruthTalk] Exerpts On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:48:10 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Worship shapes our spirituality "...our spirituality is usually shaped more by the experience of communal worship than it is by preaching and teachingthe way we think about God and relate to God is influenced enormously by our experience of God in communal worship..Songs are especially formative. We are far more likely to find ourselves humming something we sang in church when we go home than we are to find ourselves meditating on a phrase in the sermon..(not one of yours, of course).. jt: I would disagree with the above statement Lance - Is it yours? Actually spirituality shapes worship rather than vice-versa because true worship depends upon a correct heart attitude and we do not enter God's presence just any old way - We must properly prepare ourselves to worship.. And God does not accept all of it. He spoke through the prophet Amos and told the Israel of that day that their feasts and worship times literally made him want to vomit ... He also spoke through the prophet Isaiah about a crowd who were pretty pleased with themselves and thesedescended into sheol rejoicing. Christian philosopher and scientist Michael Polanyi spoke of knowledge that we simply absorb by a kind of 'osmosis' without even realizing that we have done so. This is what he refers to as 'tacit knowledge'Most Christians simply imbibe a theology through the way that they worship. jt: This is not the way anyone is to learn let alone Christians. This is how the animals perform (by instinct). Humans must be taught, we have been given a mind so that we can think and God will reveal Himself to whomsoever He will. The only ones who imbibe should be drunks. .theology springs from right worship but theology also, in turn, guides and ensures right worship.There is a circular relationship between the two as healthy worship and theology support each otherhow theology can guide the kind of worship that in turn shapes people spirituality. jt: Just like your little trinitarian dance, round and round and round we go...
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
Accusations without proof? Get real NO need to try to figure out if there is a ONLY BEGGOTTEN Daughter! Do you need further proof that that particular translation is Trash? Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So then Kevin, in Senator McCarthy like fashion you hurl out accusations sans proof in the hope that the accusation itself will serve you well enough! I'd have though as much. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 03, 2005 13:41 Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz WhenI find onewith error I throw it back on the Trash heap where it came from. How much more REsearch do I need when I know about Judith? Some translations will require more research, but since I talk no foriegn Languages, I do not need to concern myself with such, EH?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This then is your direct answer to my direct question? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 03, 2005 12:45 Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz Ask JudithLance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you happen to know for a certainty upon which mss all foreign translation are based? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 03, 2005 08:22 Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz You asked me not to give a smart remark. I complied. I answered as best I could since I really did not understandyour question State it more clearly I will answer. I do not evade questions. The new bible problem exists in other languages also. There are plenty of translations based on the Textus Receptus in other languages that are the pure word of God for the people of that language. There are also corrupt bibles in those languages based on the corrupt greek text of the Jesuits Westcott Hort Who worships pages, covers and indexing? Looks like you are the one that needs to lighten up, how absurd! Why is it that you inteligensia always have to mischaracterize? Why not deal with the issue unless it is you who is not able to. I guess this is the best you can do given the facts. Fact is the new bibles are hopelessly corrupted. Are far as lightening up, I will never as long as God gives me strength. I do not want to face His rebuke, for suffering FALSE Teachers! Rev 2:20 I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. WWJD What would JUDITH do?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is both evasive and, a non-answer. I've done the same myself multitudinous times on TT so, I can't hold your feet to the fire. However, one can't fail to notice that both Christine and yourself have no real answer for this reality. Which reality? The reality that the majority (pun intended) of believers on the globe read from a bible which is not the counterpart to the KJV. May I ask those of you (Kevin, Christine and David) who worship the pages, covers and indexing to lighten up a bit and, let God be God. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 02, 2005 21:23 Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz The Bibles that have out out lies and ERRORS in them can not possibly be God's word. It may say Bible, it may look like a Bible, but a FALSE WITNESS utters lies! The Word of God is recorded in the Bible that we may know what is required of us and that we might DO IT! Tell me what you make of that observation. Well obviously those that do not speak ENGLISH would have a Bible that is based on the Recieved text. Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is wise for one to remember that the Word of God is Jesus Christ. It is also wise to remember that His (God's) Words do not return void. Take care, Kevin, not confuse your role with that of the Spirit of God. I've found God to be at work EVEN THROUGH THE KJV! Just imagine! Speaking of 'imagine': Imagine yourself able to see every believer at once on the entire globe. Imagine them to be lit up like a little light. Then, imagine yourself able to see the Bible (or portion thereof) they had with them. How many of them do you believe are carrying the KJV? Now, don't make a smart remark, please. Tell me what you make of that observation. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 02, 2005 16:48 Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz the work of Catholic scholars It is amazing how some can stand the facts on their head. The UBS text used for the Moderne Bibles: Jesuit cardinal Carlo Maria Martini (1927- ) is the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Milan. Since 1967,has been one of the editors of the United Bible Societies Greek New Testament. His diocese in Europe is the largest in the world, with two thousand priests and five million "laity." He
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
Senator McCarthy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism Recently declassified Soviet-era documents have, in fact, confirmed that Soviet spies had infiltrated the U.S. State Department in the 1930s and 1940s He was right all along! So in the interest of Truth what accusations have I hurled without proof? Answer here ___ Or is it you that is hurling? Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So then Kevin, in Senator McCarthy like fashion you hurl out accusations sans proof in the hope that the accusation itself will serve you well enough! I'd have though as much. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 03, 2005 13:41 Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz WhenI find onewith error I throw it back on the Trash heap where it came from. How much more REsearch do I need when I know about Judith? Some translations will require more research, but since I talk no foriegn Languages, I do not need to concern myself with such, EH?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This then is your direct answer to my direct question? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 03, 2005 12:45 Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz Ask JudithLance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you happen to know for a certainty upon which mss all foreign translation are based? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 03, 2005 08:22 Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz You asked me not to give a smart remark. I complied. I answered as best I could since I really did not understandyour question State it more clearly I will answer. I do not evade questions. The new bible problem exists in other languages also. There are plenty of translations based on the Textus Receptus in other languages that are the pure word of God for the people of that language. There are also corrupt bibles in those languages based on the corrupt greek text of the Jesuits Westcott Hort Who worships pages, covers and indexing? Looks like you are the one that needs to lighten up, how absurd! Why is it that you inteligensia always have to mischaracterize? Why not deal with the issue unless it is you who is not able to. I guess this is the best you can do given the facts. Fact is the new bibles are hopelessly corrupted. Are far as lightening up, I will never as long as God gives me strength. I do not want to face His rebuke, for suffering FALSE Teachers! Rev 2:20 I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. WWJD What would JUDITH do?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is both evasive and, a non-answer. I've done the same myself multitudinous times on TT so, I can't hold your feet to the fire. However, one can't fail to notice that both Christine and yourself have no real answer for this reality. Which reality? The reality that the majority (pun intended) of believers on the globe read from a bible which is not the counterpart to the KJV. May I ask those of you (Kevin, Christine and David) who worship the pages, covers and indexing to lighten up a bit and, let God be God. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 02, 2005 21:23 Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz The Bibles that have out out lies and ERRORS in them can not possibly be God's word. It may say Bible, it may look like a Bible, but a FALSE WITNESS utters lies! The Word of God is recorded in the Bible that we may know what is required of us and that we might DO IT! Tell me what you make of that observation. Well obviously those that do not speak ENGLISH would have a Bible that is based on the Recieved text. Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is wise for one to remember that the Word of God is Jesus Christ. It is also wise to remember that His (God's) Words do not return void. Take care, Kevin, not confuse your role with that of the Spirit of God. I've found God to be at work EVEN THROUGH THE KJV! Just imagine! Speaking of 'imagine': Imagine yourself able to see every believer at once on the entire globe. Imagine them to be lit up like a little light. Then, imagine yourself able to see the Bible (or portion thereof) they had with them. How many of them do you believe are carrying the KJV? Now, don't make a smart remark, please. Tell me what you make of that observation. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 02, 2005 16:48 Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz the work of Catholic scholars It is amazing how some can stand the facts on their head. The UBS text used for the Moderne Bibles: Jesuit cardinal Carlo Maria Martini (1927- ) is the Roman
RE: [TruthTalk] Obesity
It wwould be used to beat me over the head. Why bother, you provideso much other ammo ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ROFL!!! Too funny! JD, if you had success in an area, what would there be to land on like hungry animals??? Dont you have a bike helmet or something? Izzy So tell us, in what areas have you had success with it? Me tell you and the likes of Deegan and Izzy? Fat chance on that. You guys would land on that like hungry animals. You (all) are not ones to be trusted with such information. That is why you will never see a bio from me. It wwould be used to beat me over the head. __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: == It probably depends a bit on whether you are one of those who do church, or if you are one of those who is church. Those who do church often are there because they want to be thought of as good people, or because it is good business, or because this is the sum total of their social life, or because they want to be entertained, or just to get out of the house, or because of a hundred other selfish reasons. Those who are church (those living stones) do not wait until Sunday to praise God. Their whole life is aimed at pleasing Him, which is a very real form of worship. Properly done, the coming together of the Saints should not be done for worship but for edification (1 Cor.14:26)
RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
Why? What else do they have, surely not facts. Why we are not even let in on what the supposed baseless accusations consist of!ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh, good grief---why is it that liberals always fall back on those old tried and true names to call other people? If it isnt Hitler its McCarthy. Get a new, but more creative insult please. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Friday, June 03, 2005 11:47 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz So then Kevin, in Senator McCarthy like fashion you hurl out accusations sans proof in the hope that the accusation itself will serve you well enough! I'd have though as much.__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity
NO ain't you been to the Mecca? down in the Holla were the snake handler's go.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Having trouble with the phrase "do you know what I mean by "sinless" perfection?" JD-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:44:39 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity do you know what I mean by "sinless perfectionism?" Your definition or the standard, which do you want? It is some kinda KENtuckee snake handler![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why suddenly so concerned for the truth, Deegan? do you know what I mean by "sinless perfectionism?" Jd-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:16:17 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity You are accusing him of something he has never professed. Standard "fair" for this crowd! Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 07:25:57 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You are such a bore, David. If one eats nearly all the time -- postponement is a good thing. If one thinks to stop at Burger King for the third time today, postponement is a good thing. And it is noteating more often, David; it is eating smaller meals more often -- postponement working again. If I think to eat a candy bar afterhours, postponement is a good thing. What is wrong with you ppl - you break the Royal Law so far as David Miller is concerned daily. Where's the love?? You are quick to throw out everything but Christ's two commandments and you break both on a daily basis. And why do I think it will workwith sin -- because I am told that if I flee youthful lusts, I will have victory -- on any occasion thaI I do this, a victorywill be mine. The addict, if not miraculously delivered (and most[say 99%] are not), his only hope is sin management -- postponement. If the postponement is successful, he can build on that success. This must be where your "incarnational gospel" fails. Jesus did not go to the cross for "sin management" He defeated sin andfreed us fromit's inheritance, power, and presence ... However, this reality seems to threaten you. " ... who do not sin ." No one on this list fits that description, David -- lest of which is you. Let me make myself clear: THE number one reason why I do not believe in sinless perfectionism is YOU. That's it. You are accusing him of something he has never professed. I have read DM's views on sin and have seen him admit that he misses it, repents and goes on. When consistent that sin should eventually fall away. Why do you persist in accusing him? The blood of bulls and goats covered sin which was a type of sin management. The blood of Christ remits them. Big difference. You is the reason for the season.I think it funny that you equate "humility" with my giving attention to you or people like you. Arrogance, pride and conceit plague us all, don't they David? You may speak for yourself - otherwise all you are doing is becoming the devil's advocate JD. Back to "postponement." Eatng is not my only issue -- and the management principle has, in deed, worked in a number of areas in my life. JD Management does not get rid of the problem. This is what Israel thought they would do when God told them to get rid of the Canaanite Nations. They partially obeyed but decided to allow some to stay and be water carriers for them and these enemies rose up and bit them in the rear end. Something to think about. jt -Original Message-From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 06:43:36 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity John wrote: I was illustrating "sin management," David. Who said anything about slowing down ones metabolism? No me. But let's stay on track and avoid a food fight. You were using the problem of obesity to illustrate the value of sin management. You used the postponement of eating as an analogy to validate the concept of postponing sin. Well, if it does not work for fat people, why do you think it will work with sin? Let's just say that I was drawing upon your analogy for two reasons: 1) to help anyone struggling with being overweight, and 2) to illustrate that your teaching concerning sin is probably about just as effective as your success in managing your weight. Look, you have told us often that you are fat and that you continue to sin. Why do you presume to teach us how to manage these issues? Don't you think a little more humility is in order? How about trying to hear a little more from those on the list who are not fat and who do not sin? Or are you going to reject the idea that some people on the list are not fat, just as you reject the idea that some people on this list do not continue to sin? Humility, John, humility. Is that too much to ask? Not everybody on the list is fat, and not everybody on the list sins. In other words, not everybody is just like
Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity
JOB And there was a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house: And there came a messenger unto Job, and said, The oxen were plowing, and the asses feeding beside them: And the Sabeans fell upon them, and took them away; yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee. While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee. While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The Chaldeans made out three bands, and fell upon the camels, and have carried them away, yea, and slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee. While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house: And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee. Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped,[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good comments. My wife and I do not look to songs for didache -- rather we score high a service that allows us to praise God and give Him His righteous due. Perhaps reflective of how we approach the Faith in total. JD-Original Message-From: Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:47:35 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity It plays a very important part in the discipline of spiritual growth. Amen. I realized recently that the worship songs I sing have taught me a sort of spiritual jealousy, where I wanted to mean those songs from my heart when I sang them. This one song had a line "You can offer her anything her affections are all for Him only," that showed me how I should desire my God. Though I wouldn't rate it over preaching and teaching, as quoted in Lance's post, I do love worship! Blessings! --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Worship shapes our spirituality "...our spirituality is usually shaped more by the experience of communal worship than it is by preaching and teachingthe way we think about God and relate to God is influenced enormously by our experience of God in communal worship..Songs are especially formative. We are far more likely to find ourselves humming something we sang in church when we go home than we are to find ourselves meditating on a phrase in the sermon..(not one of yours, of course)..Christian philosopher and scientist Michael Polanyi spoke of knowledge that we simply absorb by a kind of 'osmosis' without even realizing that we have done so. This is what he refers to as 'tacit knowledge' Most Christians simply imbibe a theology through the way that they worship. .theology springs from right worship but theology also, in turn, guides and ensures right worship.There is a circular relationship between the two as healthy worship and theology support each otherhow theology can guide the kind of worship that in turn shapes people spirituality. How very true, for my wife and I, at least. Our "church of choice" is Valley Christian Center in Fresno. It is a 2000 member congregation with, perhaps, the best comtemporary worship service in the area. What Polanyi speaks of in the above quote is, perhaps, the same as that referenced by Paul in Eph. 5:18-20. There, spirit filling is an experience received on any occasion the community of saints gather togather in the sharing of song and spiritual hymns. It plays a very important part in the discipline of spiritual growth. Too much attention to the negatives expressed by some saints (including ourselves) often counters the joy and peace derived from these times of worhsip. Thanks for the words JD __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Discover Yahoo! Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news & more. Check it out!
[TruthTalk] Fw: Satan
- Original Message - From: Hughes Jonathan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: June 03, 2005 16:39 Subject: Satan even if an angel from heaven I think it was from James Jordan that I first encountered the notion that Satan may have had a legitimate teaching task in Eden. After all, despite popular mythology, we don't have a biblical text that specifically points out when Satan fell. Moreover, elsewhere in Scripture, angels are teachers of human beings - indeed, angel means messenger. Furthermore, as I think I noted recently, God pronounces a curse upon the serpent specifically in connection with his deception of Adam and Eve; it could be argued that this is the initial curse against Satan. But it strikes me that there is one further possible line of evidence: Galatians 1.8. "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed." It seems to me that it is not much of a stretch to think that Paul is alluding to Satan coming as a messenger from heaven and "preaching" something other than what had already been preached to Adam and Eve - namely, the words of God in Genesis 2.16-17. This is only fortified by the resultant curse upon the serpent in Gen 3.14-15 and Paul's use of the term anathema. The point then would not be that the serpent/Satan was not supposed to be in the garden - he had a legitimate teaching task. But he "preached another message," and Adam and Eve's calling was to judge it in terms of the message they had already received. This again opens up a further interesting door upon what the serpent was doing, if the analogy goes further. Paul is speaking of those who are offering "a different gospel," or rather, not another one, but a perversion of the gospel that they had heard. Suggesting, if the parallel holds, that Satan wasn't just telling nothing but lies; rather, he was twisting the truth that they knew. All very interesting possibilities which deserve further reflection and investigation, it seems to me. http://rabbisaul.com/blog/index.php?title=even_if_an_angel_from_heavenmore=1c=1tb=1pb=1#comments This e-mail and any attachments contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. Thank you for your cooperation in connection with the above.Ce courriel ainsi que tous les documents sy rattachant contiennent de linformation confidentielle et privilgie. Si vous ntes pas le destinataire vis, s.v.p. en informer immdiatement son expditeur par retour de courriel, effacer le message et dtruire toute copie (lectronique ou autre). Toute diffusion ou utilisation de cette information par une personne autre que le destinataire vis est interdite et peut tre illgale. Merci de votre coopration relativement au message susmentionn.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
These deaths add daily to the cumulative total of 3.8 million fatalities since the crisis began in August Why don't you go over there and do something about it? Talk is cheap!Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's truly uncomfortable is it not? When (in print) you sound, often, like someone so ?yuck! Do be faithful to one of your own, Iz. Joe looks down from 'the great 'hearing in the sky.' He's on the lookout for 'commies' like homeland security is on the lookout for terrorists. It's the head in the sand thingy, Iz. You want serious? I'll give you serious! Does anyone out there know the following: One thousand people die every day in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and nearly half of these deaths are accounted for by children under five years of age. These deaths add daily to the cumulative total of 3.8 million fatalities since the crisis began in August, 1998 to the end of April 2004. This makes the DRC conflict worse than any other conflict since the end of World War II and in terms of death toll exceeds other recent crises, including Bosnia (estimated 250,000 dead), Rwanda (800,000), Kosovo (12,000),. and Darfur in Sudan (70,000) Despite this, the international community has failed to take the necessary action to alleviate the crisis. During 2004, only 42% of funding sought by the United Nations for its activities had been raised by August, while contributions by the United Sates Agency for International Assistance to DRC for 2004 have declined by almost 25% when compared with 2003. "No other recent confllict has claimed as many lives and mortality rates remain elevated at an alarming level. In spite of these unambiguous facts, the international community has not yet mobilized the necessary will or resources to effectively address the crisis," according to the latest mortality study, a joint effort by the New York based International Rescue Committee (IRC) and Australia's Burnet Institute. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 03, 2005 14:27 Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz Oh, good grief---why is it that liberals always fall back on those old tried and true names to call other people? If it isnt Hitler its McCarthy. Get a new, but more creative insult please. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Friday, June 03, 2005 11:47 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz So then Kevin, in Senator McCarthy like fashion you hurl out accusations sans proof in the hope that the accusation itself will serve you well enough! I'd have though as much. Discover Yahoo! Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM & more. Check it out!
[TruthTalk] [Fwd: Clinton's death factories in Arkansas]
This story sorta ties in with your figures on the slaughter in Africa, Lance. Not because the two are alike, but because they represent both ends of the spectrum. If you are poor and unknown (Africans with no oil ) you can die by the millions and the world will yawn. If you are rich and have connections, people will let you get away with murder. God is no respecter of persons, but the ungodly are very much the opposite. Terry http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44571 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.5.1 - Release Date: 6/2/2005
Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity
Worship is at 11:00 sharp on SundayTerry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: == It probably depends a bit on whether you are one of those who do church, or if you are one of those who is church. Those who do church often are there because they want to be thought of as good people, or because it is good business, or because this is the sum total of their social life, or because they want to be entertained, or just to get out of the house, or because of a hundred other selfish reasons. Those who are church (those living stones) do not wait until Sunday to praise God. Their whole life is aimed at pleasing Him, which is a very real form of worship.Properly done, the coming together of the Saints should not be done for worship but for edification (1 Cor.14:26)__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Satan
Satan a legitimate teacher? Angels? Tell the "Angels"to go back to the PIT where they came from. Satan wasn't just telling nothing but lies; rather, he was twisting the truth that they knew. He was twisting what? The WORDS of God. Still actively twisting today. Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Hughes Jonathan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: June 03, 2005 16:39 Subject: Satan even if an angel from heaven I think it was from James Jordan that I first encountered the notion that Satan may have had a legitimate teaching task in Eden. After all, despite popular mythology, we don't have a biblical text that specifically points out when Satan fell. Moreover, elsewhere in Scripture, angels are teachers of human beings - indeed, angel means messenger. Furthermore, as I think I noted recently, God pronounces a curse upon the serpent specifically in connection with his deception of Adam and Eve; it could be argued that this is the initial curse against Satan. But it strikes me that there is one further possible line of evidence: Galatians 1.8. "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed." It seems to me that it is not much of a stretch to think that Paul is alluding to Satan coming as a messenger from heaven and "preaching" something other than what had already been preached to Adam and Eve - namely, the words of God in Genesis 2.16-17. This is only fortified by the resultant curse upon the serpent in Gen 3.14-15 and Paul's use of the term anathema. The point then would not be that the serpent/Satan was not supposed to be in the garden - he had a legitimate teaching task. But he "preached another message," and Adam and Eve's calling was to judge it in terms of the message they had already received. This again opens up a further interesting door upon what the serpent was doing, if the analogy goes further. Paul is speaking of those who are offering "a different gospel," or rather, not another one, but a perversion of the gospel that they had heard. Suggesting, if the parallel holds, that Satan wasn't just telling nothing but lies; rather, he was twisting the truth that they knew. All very interesting possibilities which deserve further reflection and investigation, it seems to me. http://rabbisaul.com/blog/index.php?title=even_if_an_angel_from_heavenmore=1c=1tb=1pb=1#comments This e-mail and any attachments contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. Thank you for your cooperation in connection with the above.Ce courriel ainsi que tous les documents s’y rattachant contiennent de l’information confidentielle et privilégiée. Si vous n’êtes pas le destinataire visé, s.v.p. en informer immédiatement son expéditeur par retour de courriel, effacer le message et détruire toute copie (électronique ou autre). Toute diffusion ou utilisation de cette information par une personne autre que le destinataire visé est interdite et peut être illégale. Merci de votre coopération relativement au message susmentionné. Discover Yahoo! Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM & more. Check it out!
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
To quote Izzie accurately: tried TRUE. Read carefully as she is making the opposite point. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 03, 2005 16:40 Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz Why? What else do they have, surely not facts. Why we are not even let in on what the supposed baseless accusations consist of!ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh, good grief---why is it that liberals always fall back on those old tried and true names to call other people? If it isnt Hitler its McCarthy. Get a new, but more creative insult please. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Friday, June 03, 2005 11:47 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz So then Kevin, in Senator McCarthy like fashion you hurl out accusations sans proof in the hope that the accusation itself will serve you well enough! I'd have though as much. __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [TruthTalk] Exerpts
Absolutely. -Original Message-From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 16:12:14 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Exerpts Are we ALL as predictable as you, Judy? Given this I'm not sure why you don't just have two 'repeater' words: 'Amen' for David (by extension, Christine), Izzie Kevin. 'Nein' for all of the rest of us. The time you could save, Judy! - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 03, 2005 15:58 Subject: [TruthTalk] Exerpts On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:48:10 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Worship shapes our spirituality "...our spirituality is usually shaped more by the experience of communal worship than it is by preaching and teachingthe way we think about God and relate to God is influenced enormously by our experience of God in communal worship..Songs are especially formative. We are far more likely to find ourselves humming something we sang in church when we go home than we are to find ourselves meditating on a phrase in the sermon..(not one of yours, of course).. jt: I would disagree with the above statement Lance - Is it yours? Actually spirituality shapes worship rather than vice-versa because true worship depends upon a correct heart attitude and we do not enter God's presence just any old way - We must properly prepare ourselves to worship.. And God does not accept all of it. He spoke through the prophet Amos and told the Israel of that day that their feasts and worship times literally made him want to vomit ... He also spoke through the prophet Isaiah about a crowd who were pretty pleased with themselves and thesedescended into sheol rejoicing. Christian philosopher and scientist Michael Polanyi spoke of knowledge that we simply absorb by a kind of 'osmosis' without even realizing that we have done so. This is what he refers to as 'tacit knowledge'Most Christians simply imbibe a theology through the way that they worship. jt: This is not the way anyone is to learn let alone Christians. This is how the animals perform (by instinct). Humans must be taught, we have been given a mind so that we can think and God will reveal Himself to whomsoever He will. The only ones who imbibe should be drunks. .theology springs from right worship but theology also, in turn, guides and ensures right worship.There is a circular relationship between the two as healthy worship and theology support each otherhow theology can guide the kind of worship that in turn shapes people spirituality. jt: Just like your little trinitarian dance, round and round and round we go...
Re: [TruthTalk] Exerpts
If one goes around imbibing spiritual atmospheres where is spiritual discernment? The animal kingdom are the ones who are led by instinct. Human beings need to learn and God makes surewe are taught to know the voice of the Shepherd. jt On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 16:12:14 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Are we ALL as predictable as you, Judy? Given this I'm not sure why you don't just have two 'repeater' words: 'Amen' for David (by extension, Christine), Izzie Kevin. 'Nein' for all of the rest of us. The time you could save, Judy! From: Judy Taylor On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:48:10 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Worship shapes our spirituality "...our spirituality is usually shaped more by the experience of communal worship than it is by preaching and teachingthe way we think about God and relate to God is influenced enormously by our experience of God in communal worship..Songs are especially formative. We are far more likely to find ourselves humming something we sang in church when we go home than we are to find ourselves meditating on a phrase in the sermon..(not one of yours, of course).. jt: I would disagree with the above statement Lance - Is it yours? Actually spirituality shapes worship rather than vice-versa because true worship depends upon a correct heart attitude and we do not enter God's presence just any old way - We must properly prepare ourselves to worship.. And God does not accept all of it. He spoke through the prophet Amos and told the Israel of that day that their feasts and worship times literally made him want to vomit ... He also spoke through the prophet Isaiah about a crowd who were pretty pleased with themselves and thesedescended into sheol rejoicing. Christian philosopher and scientist Michael Polanyi spoke of knowledge that we simply absorb by a kind of 'osmosis' without even realizing that we have done so. This is what he refers to as 'tacit knowledge'Most Christians simply imbibe a theology through the way that they worship. jt: This is not the way anyone is to learn let alone Christians. This is how the animals perform (by instinct). Humans must be taught, we have been given a mind so that we can think and God will reveal Himself to whomsoever He will. The only ones who imbibe should be drunks. .theology springs from right worship but theology also, in turn, guides and ensures right worship.There is a circular relationship between the two as healthy worship and theology support each otherhow theology can guide the kind of worship that in turn shapes people spirituality. jt: Just like your little trinitarian dance, round and round and round we go...
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
If this was a source of oil Kevin, your country WOULD BE THERE! Terry sees this. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 03, 2005 16:52 Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz These deaths add daily to the cumulative total of 3.8 million fatalities since the crisis began in August Why don't you go over there and do something about it? Talk is cheap!Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's truly uncomfortable is it not? When (in print) you sound, often, like someone so ?yuck! Do be faithful to one of your own, Iz. Joe looks down from 'the great 'hearing in the sky.' He's on the lookout for 'commies' like homeland security is on the lookout for terrorists. It's the head in the sand thingy, Iz. You want serious? I'll give you serious! Does anyone out there know the following: One thousand people die every day in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and nearly half of these deaths are accounted for by children under five years of age. These deaths add daily to the cumulative total of 3.8 million fatalities since the crisis began in August, 1998 to the end of April 2004. This makes the DRC conflict worse than any other conflict since the end of World War II and in terms of death toll exceeds other recent crises, including Bosnia (estimated 250,000 dead), Rwanda (800,000), Kosovo (12,000),. and Darfur in Sudan (70,000) Despite this, the international community has failed to take the necessary action to alleviate the crisis. During 2004, only 42% of funding sought by the United Nations for its activities had been raised by August, while contributions by the United Sates Agency for International Assistance to DRC for 2004 have declined by almost 25% when compared with 2003. "No other recent confllict has claimed as many lives and mortality rates remain elevated at an alarming level. In spite of these unambiguous facts, the international community has not yet mobilized the necessary will or resources to effectively address the crisis," according to the latest mortality study, a joint effort by the New York based International Rescue Committee (IRC) and Australia's Burnet Institute. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 03, 2005 14:27 Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz Oh, good grief---why is it that liberals always fall back on those old tried and true names to call other people? If it isnt Hitler its McCarthy. Get a new, but more creative insult please. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Friday, June 03, 2005 11:47 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz So then Kevin, in Senator McCarthy like fashion you hurl out accusations sans proof in the hope that the accusation itself will serve you well enough! I'd have though as much. Discover Yahoo!Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM more. Check it out!
Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity
In Eph 5:18ff -- Paul IS talking about doing church.That is the context of the passage.-Original Message-From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 15:38:42 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: == It probably depends a bit on whether you are one of those who do church, or if you are one of those who is church. Those who do church often are there because they want to be thought of as good people, or because it is good business, or because this is the sum total of their social life, or because they want to be entertained, or just to get out of the house, or because of a hundred other selfish reasons. Those who are church (those living stones) do not wait until Sunday to praise God. Their whole life is aimed at pleasing Him, which is a very real form of worship.Properly done, the coming together of the Saints should not be done for worship but for edification (1 Cor.14:26)
Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity
I rest my case !!! JD-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:42:22 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity NO ain't you been to the Mecca? down in the Holla were the snake handler's go.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Having trouble with the phrase "do you know what I mean by "sinless" perfection?" JD-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:44:39 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity do you know what I mean by "sinless perfectionism?" Your definition or the standard, which do you want? It is some kinda KENtuckee snake handler![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why suddenly so concerned for the truth, Deegan? do you know what I mean by "sinless perfectionism?" Jd-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:16:17 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity You are accusing him of something he has never professed. Standard "fair" for this crowd! Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 07:25:57 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You are such a bore, David. If one eats nearly all the time -- postponement is a good thing. If one thinks to stop at Burger King for the third time today, postponement is a good thing. And it is noteating more often, David; it is eating smaller meals more often -- postponement working again. If I think to eat a candy bar afterhours, postponement is a good thing. What is wrong with you ppl - you break the Royal Law so far as David Miller is concerned daily. Where's the love?? You are quick to throw out everything but Christ's two commandments and you break both on a daily basis. And why do I think it will workwith sin -- because I am told that if I flee youthful lusts, I will have victory -- on any occasion thaI I do this, a victorywill be mine. The addict, if not miraculously delivered (and most[say 99%] are not), his only hope is sin management -- postponement. If the postponement is successful, he can build on that success. This must be where your "incarnational gospel" fails. Jesus did not go to the cross for "sin management" He defeated sin andfreed us fromit's inheritance, power, and presence ... However, this reality seems to threaten you. " ... who do not sin ." No one on this list fits that description, David -- lest of which is you. Let me make myself clear: THE number one reason why I do not believe in sinless perfectionism is YOU. That's it. You are accusing him of something he has never professed. I have read DM's views on sin and have seen him admit that he misses it, repents and goes on. When consistent that sin should eventually fall away. Why do you persist in accusing him? The blood of bulls and goats covered sin which was a type of sin management. The blood of Christ remits them. Big difference. You is the reason for the season.I think it funny that you equate "humility" with my giving attention to you or people like you. Arrogance, pride and conceit plague us all, don't they David? You may speak for yourself - otherwise all you are doing is becoming the devil's advocate JD. Back to "postponement." Eatng is not my only issue -- and the management principle has, in deed, worked in a number of areas in my life. JD Management does not get rid of the problem. This is what Israel thought they would do when God told them to get rid of the Canaanite Nations. They partially obeyed but decided to allow some to stay and be water carriers for them and these enemies rose up and bit them in the rear end. Something to think about. jt -Original Message-From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 06:43:36 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity John wrote: I was illustrating "sin management," David. Who said anything about slowing down ones metabolism? No me. But let's stay on track and avoid a food fight. You were using the problem of obesity to illustrate the value of sin management. You used the postponement of eating as an analogy to validate the concept of postponing sin. Well, if it does not work for fat people, why do you think it will work with sin? Let's just say that I was drawing upon your analogy for two reasons: 1) to help anyone struggling with being overweight, and 2) to illustrate that your teaching concerning sin is probably about just as effective as your success in managing your weight. Look, you have told us often that you are fat and that you continue to sin. Why do you presume to teach us how to manage these issues? Don't you think a little more humility is in order? How about trying to hear a little more from those on the list who are not fat and who do not sin? Or are you going to reject the idea that some people on the list are not fat, just as you reject the idea that some people on this list do
Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity
And your point -- that we must shave our heads, worship flat on the groundwhile tearing our clothing? ?? JD-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:48:49 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity JOB And there was a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house: And there came a messenger unto Job, and said, The oxen were plowing, and the asses feeding beside them: And the Sabeans fell upon them, and took them away; yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee. While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee. While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The Chaldeans made out three bands, and fell upon the camels, and have carried them away, yea, and slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee. While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house: And, behold, there came a grea t wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee. Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped,[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good comments. My wife and I do not look to songs for didache -- rather we score high a service that allows us to praise God and give Him His righteous due. Perhaps reflective of how we approach the Faith in total. JD-Original Message-From: Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:47:35 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity It plays a very important part in the discipline of spiritual growth. Amen. I realized recently that the worship songs I sing have taught me a sort of spiritual jealousy, where I wanted to mean those songs from my heart when I sang them. This one song had a line "You can offer her anything her affections are all for Him only," that showed me how I should desire my God. Though I wouldn't rate it over preaching and teaching, as quoted in Lance's post, I do love worship! Blessings! --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Worship shapes our spirituality "...our spirituality is usually shaped more by the experience of communal worship than it is by preaching and teachingthe way we think about God and relate to God is influenced enormously by our experience of God in communal worship..Songs are especially formative. We are far more likely to find ourselves humming something we sang in church when we go home than we are to find ourselves meditating on a phrase in the sermon..(not one of yours, of course)..Christian philosopher and scientist Michael Polanyi spoke of knowledge that we simply absorb by a kind of 'osmosis' without even realizing that we have done so. This is what he refers to as 'tacit knowledge' Most Christians simply imbibe a theology through the way that they worship. .theology springs from right worship but theology also, in turn, guides and ensures right worship.There is a circular relationship between the two as healthy worship and theology support each otherhow theology can guide the kind of worship that in turn shapes people spirituality. How very true, for my wife and I, at least. Our "church of choice" is Valley Christian Center in Fresno. It is a 2000 member congregation with, perhaps, the best comtemporary worship service in the area. What Polanyi speaks of in the above quote is, perhaps, the same as that referenced by Paul in Eph. 5:18-20. There, spirit filling is an experience received on any occasion the community of saints gather togather in the sharing of song and spiritual hymns. It plays a very important part in the discipline of spiritual growth. Too much attention to the negatives expressed by some saints (including ourselves) often counters the joy and peace derived from these times of worhsip. Thanks for the words JD __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Discover Yahoo!Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
Hidding behind tough words don't get it done, Deegan. Just another way of avoiding the real and important issues. JD-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:52:25 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz These deaths add daily to the cumulative total of 3.8 million fatalities since the crisis began in August Why don't you go over there and do something about it? Talk is cheap!Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's truly uncomfortable is it not? When (in print) you sound, often, like someone so ?yuck! Do be faithful to one of your own, Iz. Joe looks down from 'the great 'hearing in the sky.' He's on the lookout for 'commies' like homeland security is on the lookout for terrorists. It's the head in the sand thingy, Iz. You want serious? I'll give you serious! Does anyone out there know the following: One thousand people die every day in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and nearly half of these deaths are accounted for by children under five years of age. These deaths add daily to the cumulative total of 3.8 million fatalities since the crisis began in August, 1998 to the end of April 2004. This makes the DRC conflict worse than any other conflict since the end of World War II and in terms of death toll exceeds other recent crises, including Bosnia (estimated 250,000 dead), Rwanda (800,000), Kosovo (12,000),. and Darfur in Sudan (70,000) Despite this, the international community has failed to take the necessary action to alleviate the crisis. During 2004, only 42% of funding sought by the United Nations for its activities had been raised by August, while contributions by the United Sates Agency for International Assistance to DRC for 2004 have declined by almost 25% when compared with 2003. "No other recent confllict has claimed as many lives and mortality rates remain elevated at an alarming level. In spite of these unambiguous facts, the international community has not yet mobilized the necessary will or resources to effectively address the crisis," according to the latest mortality study, a joint effort by the New York based International Rescue Committee (IRC) and Australia's Burnet Institute. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 03, 2005 14:27 Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz Oh, good grief---why is it that liberals always fall back on those old tried and true names to call other people? If it isn?t ?Hitler? it?s ?McCarthy?. Get a new, but more creative insult please. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Friday, June 03, 2005 11:47 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz So then Kevin, in Senator McCarthy like fashion you hurl out accusations sans proof in the hope that the accusation itself will serve you well enough! I'd have though as much. Discover Yahoo!Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM more. Check it out!
Re: [TruthTalk] Exerpts
Have you read Eph 5:18-20. Think "imbibe." And why would you waste everyone's time rejecting such an observation. You do not fight liberalism -- you guys just fight against anything you didn't make up. Nearly everything I believe is accepted by our friends as BSF while you pretend that youare onto something really big in fight'en those dirty ol' liberals. You got Deegan all alone up there in the North, wishing that he had paid more attention in his English comprehension class -- Izzy there in St Louis pretending that she really understands what is going on and David pretending that he is the one who cast's the larger shadow (with the Lord's help, of course.) Why not drop all this ankst and get on with the discussion. I will if you will. It is up to you all. Be our example and we (I am sure) will follow suit. JD-Original Message-From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 17:16:27 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Exerpts If one goes around imbibing spiritual atmospheres where is spiritual discernment? The animal kingdom are the ones who are led by instinct. Human beings need to learn and God makes surewe are taught to know the voice of the Shepherd. jt On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 16:12:14 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Are we ALL as predictable as you, Judy? Given this I'm not sure why you don't just have two 'repeater' words: 'Amen' for David (by extension, Christine), Izzie Kevin. 'Nein' for all of the rest of us. The time you could save, Judy! From: Judy Taylor On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:48:10 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Worship shapes our spirituality "...our spirituality is usually shaped more by the experience of communal worship than it is by preaching and teachingthe way we think about God and relate to God is influenced enormously by our experience of God in communal worship..Songs are especially formative. We are far more likely to find ourselves humming something we sang in church when we go home than we are to find ourselves meditating on a phrase in the sermon..(not one of yours, of course).. jt: I would disagree with the above statement Lance - Is it yours? Actually spirituality shapes worship rather than vice-versa because true worship depends upon a correct heart attitude and we do not enter God's presence just any old way - We must properly prepare ourselves to worship.. And God does not accept all of it. He spoke through the prophet Amos and told the Israel of that day that their feasts and worship times literally made him want to vomit ... He also spoke through the prophet Isaiah about a crowd who were pretty pleased with themselves and thesedescended into sheol rejoicing. Christian philosopher and scientist Michael Polanyi spoke of knowledge that we simply absorb by a kind of 'osmosis' without even realizing that we have done so. This is what he refers to as 'tacit knowledge'Most Christians simply imbibe a theology through the way that they worship. jt: This is not the way anyone is to learn let alone Christians. This is how the animals perform (by instinct). Humans must be taught, we have been given a mind so that we can think and God will reveal Himself to whomsoever He will. The only ones who imbibe should be drunks. .theology springs from right worship but theology also, in turn, guides and ensures right worship.There is a circular relationship between the two as healthy worship and theology support each otherhow theology can guide the kind of worship that in turn shapes people spirituality. jt: Just like your little trinitarian dance, round and round and round we go...
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
Lance wrote: I was simply alluding to those on TT who believe that God 'incarnated' in book form as opposed to a human being. (You, David, Judy and Izzie) I wouldn't use the word 'incarnated' but because you threw my name into the mix, I suppose you are addressing my great respect for Scripture. Don't you think Jesus also respected Scripture the way that we do? Consider the straining at the letter of Scripture that Jesus does in the following passage: John 10:34-36 (34) Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? (35) If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; (36) Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? Besides Jesus demonstrating here that he is a legalist, he illustrates respect for every jot and tittle of Scripture. And why not, he also taught that no jot or tittle would fail until heaven and earth pass away. Matthew 5:17-18 (17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Remember too that Jesus encouraged his disciples to listen and obey those expounders of Scripture whom many on TruthTalk would label as legalists. Matthew 23:2-3 (2) Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: (3) All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. So who here is walking in the tradition of Jesus Christ? Is it those who greatly respect the Scriptures and follow it closely, or is it those who think it would be evil legalism to do so? Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In Eph 5:18ff -- Paul IS talking about doing church.That is the context of the passage. === In my opinion, Paul was telling them how to be Church, but I thank you for the verse anyway, since I am trying to gather together all the verses that describe the coming together of the Saints. So far I have found some studying, some singing, some eating, some communion, some edifying. What I haven't found is the sermon, tithing, or the building fund.
Re: [TruthTalk] Exerpts
dualistically, then, false worship depends on an incorrect heart attitude On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 15:58:39 -0400 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: true worship depends upon a correct heart attitude
[TruthTalk] Re:WWCofG lives on
Years ago, when I too, was a legalist, I enjoyed listening to Herbert W Armstrong and Garner Ted. But they lost me with their emphasis on the Old LAw. Many of their arguments -- such as "against evolution" -- were actually very good. Anyway -- Carner Ted did the twist with one of the sisters and Herbert died in the mid 80"s and something very unusual happened to this fellowship. I don't know what to think about all the changes, but one very important change was the "end of the law" and life in a relationship with the Christ. You just might find this article interesting. http://www.wcg.org/lit/AboutUs/history.htm Jd
RE: [TruthTalk] Obesity
Absolutely. The way we dress in the morning, the thoughts we carry through the day, the habits we form, our interactions with otherseverything we do is an _expression_ of worship. (Or not.) Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 1:04 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity Its been awhile for me, but I believe the correct phraseology work of services (?) If so, most of what we do our of appreciation of the Christ in our lives would be worship. Thoughts??? -Original Message- From: Charles Perry Locke cpl2602@hotmail.com To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 11:19:22 -0700 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity Christine, do you equate singing songs in church with worship? Are there any other types of worship than singing songs? Perry From: Christine Miller verilysaid@yahoo.com Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:47:35 -0700 (PDT) It plays a very important part in the discipline of spiritual growth. Amen. I realized recently that the worship songs I sing have taught me a sort of spiritual jealousy, where I wanted to mean those songs from my heart when I sang them. This one s ong had a line You can offer her anything her affections are all for Him only, that showed me how I should desire my God. Though I wouldn't rate it over preaching and teaching, as quoted in Lance's post, I do love worship! Blessings! --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Worship shapes our spirituality ...our spirituality is usually shaped more by the experience of communal worship than it is by preaching and teachingthe way we think about God and relate to God is influenced enormously by our experience of God in communal worship..Songs are especially formative. We are far more likely to find ourselves humming something we sang in church when we go home than we are to find ourselves meditating on a phrase in the sermon..(not one of yours, of course)..Christian philosopher and scientist Michael Polanyi spoke of knowledge that we simply absorb by a kind of 'osmosis' without even realizing that we have done so. This is what he refers to as 'tacit knowledge' Most Christians simply imbibe a theology through the way that they worship. .theology springs from right worship but theology also, in turn, guides and ensures right worship.There is a circular relationship between the two as healthy worship and theology support each otherhow theology can guide the kind of worship that in turn shapes people spirituality. How very true, for my wife and I, at least. Our church of choice is Valley Christian Center in Fresno. It is a 2000 member congregation with, perhaps, the best comtemporary worship service in the area. What Polanyi speaks of in the above quote is, perhaps, the same as that referenced by Paul in Eph. 5:18-20. There, spirit filling is an experience received on any occasion the community of saints gather togather in the sharing of song and spiritual hymns. It plays a very important part in the discipline of spiritual growth. Too much attention to the negatives expressed by some saints (including ourselves) often counters the joy and peace derived from these times of worhsip. Thanks for the words JD __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a f riend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity
>From here, his point seems to be that you do not need a community to worship, or a building, or a pastor/priest. Job, by the way, is just one of many examples of this. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And your point -- that we must shave our heads, worship flat on the groundwhile tearing our clothing? ?? JD -Original Message- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:48:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity JOB And there was a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house: And there came a messenger unto Job, and said, The oxen were plowing, and the asses feeding beside them: And the Sabeans fell upon them, and took them away; yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee. While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee. While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The Chaldeans made out three bands, and fell upon the camels, and have carried them away, yea, and slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee. While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house: And, behold, there came a grea t wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee. Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good comments. My wife and I do not look to songs for didache -- rather we score high a service that allows us to praise God and give Him His righteous due. Perhaps reflective of how we approach the Faith in total. JD -Original Message- From: Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:47:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity It plays a very important part in the discipline of spiritual growth. Amen. I realized recently that the worship songs I sing have taught me a sort of spiritual jealousy, where I wanted to mean those songs from my heart when I sang them. This one song had a line "You can offer her anything her affections are all for Him only," that showed me how I should desire my God. Though I wouldn't rate it over preaching and teaching, as quoted in Lance's post, I do love worship! Blessings! --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Worship shapes our spirituality "...our spirituality is usually shaped more by the experience of communal worship than it is by preaching and teachingthe way we think about God and relate to God is influenced enormously by our experience of God in communal worship..Songs are especially formative. We are far more likely to find ourselves humming something we sang in church when we go home than we are to find ourselves meditating on a phrase in the sermon..(not one of yours, of course)..Christian philosopher and scientist Michael Polanyi spoke of knowledge that we simply absorb by a kind of 'osmosis' without even realizing that we have done so. This is what he refers to as 'tacit knowledge' Most Christians simply imbibe a theology through the way that they worship. .theology springs from right worship but theology also, in turn, guides and ensures right worship.There is a circular relationship between the two as healthy worship and theology support each otherhow theology can guide the kind of worship that in turn shapes people spirituality. How very true, for my wife and I, at least. Our "church of choice" is Valley Christian Center in Fresno. It is a 2000 member congregation with, perhaps, the best comtemporary worship service in the area. What Polanyi speaks of in the above quote is, perhaps, the same as that referenced by Paul in Eph. 5:18-20. There, spirit filling is an experience received on any occasion the community of saints gather togather in the sharing of song and spiritual hymns. It plays a very important part in the discipline of spiritual growth. Too much attention to the negatives expressed by some saints (including ourselves) often counters the joy and peace derived from these times of worhsip. Thanks for the words JD __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to
RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
You dont make me feel uncomfortable except for you, Lance. Youre really out there my friend. And your concerns about the Congowhat are you and Canada doing about it? Did you have a complaint with someone other than your beloved United Nations? (Its a crooked JOKE!!!) Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 1:25 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz It's truly uncomfortable is it not? When (in print) you sound, often, like someone so ?yuck! Do be faithful to one of your own, Iz. Joe looks down from 'the great 'hearing in the sky.' He's on the lookout for 'commies' like homeland security is on the lookout for terrorists. It's the head in the sand thingy, Iz. You want serious? I'll give you serious! Does anyone out there know the following: One thousand people die every day in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and nearly half of these deaths are accounted for by children under five years of age. These deaths add daily to the cumulative total of 3.8 million fatalities since the crisis began in August, 1998 to the end of April 2004. This makes the DRC conflict worse than any other conflict since the end of World War II and in terms of death toll exceeds other recent crises, including Bosnia (estimated 250,000 dead), Rwanda (800,000), Kosovo (12,000),. and Darfur in Sudan (70,000) Despite this, the international community has failed to take the necessary action to alleviate the crisis. During 2004, only 42% of funding sought by the United Nations for its activities had been raised by August, while contributions by the United Sates Agency for International Assistance to DRC for 2004 have declined by almost 25% when compared with 2003. No other recent confllict has claimed as many lives and mortality rates remain elevated at an alarming level. In spite of these unambiguous facts, the international community has not yet mobilized the necessary will or resources to effectively address the crisis, according to the latest mortality study, a joint effort by the New York based International Rescue Committee (IRC) and Australia's Burnet Institute. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 03, 2005 14:27 Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz Oh, good grief---why is it that liberals always fall back on those old tried and true names to call other people? If it isnt Hitler its McCarthy. Get a new, but more creative insult please. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 11:47 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz So then Kevin, in Senator McCarthy like fashion you hurl out accusations sans proof in the hope that the accusation itself will serve you well enough! I'd have though as much.
Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity
Terry wrote: ... I am trying to gather together all the verses that describe the coming together of the Saints. So far I have found some studying, some singing, some eating, some communion, some edifying. What I haven't found is the sermon, tithing, or the building fund. Here's a passage for the sermon. Acts 20:7-9 (7) And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. (8) And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together. (9) And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] Exerpts
Excellent points, Judy. Worship can be acceptable or unacceptable to God. If it feels good, it isnt necessarily acceptable to Him. I sat in on part of a church service in which the Reverend was a lesbian, and the congregation was filled with sodomites. They were quite into their communal worship as they hugged each other and rejoiced in the fact that God loved them so much they could come out of the closet. I had to leave when they started handing out communion as I just couldnt stomach watching that sacrilege. It was enough to make even me throw up. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 1:59 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [TruthTalk] Exerpts On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:48:10 -0400 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Worship shapes our spirituality ...our spirituality is usually shaped more by the experience of communal worship than it is by preaching and teachingthe way we think about God and relate to God is influenced enormously by our experience of God in communal worship..Songs are especially formative. We are far more likely to find ourselves humming something we sang in church when we go home than we are to find ourselves meditating on a phrase in the sermon..(not one of yours, of course).. jt: I would disagree with the above statement Lance - Is it yours? Actually spirituality shapes worship rather than vice-versa because true worship depends upon a correct heart attitude and we do not enter God's presence just any old way - We must properly prepare ourselves to worship.. And God does not accept all of it. He spoke through the prophet Amos and told the Israel of that day that their feasts and worship times literally made him want to vomit ... He also spoke through the prophet Isaiah about a crowd who were pretty pleased with themselves and thesedescended into sheol rejoicing. Christian philosopher and scientist Michael Polanyi spoke of knowledge that we simply absorb by a kind of 'osmosis' without even realizing that we have done so. This is what he refers to as 'tacit knowledge'Most Christians simply imbibe a theology through the way that they worship. jt: This is not the way anyone is to learn let alone Christians. This is how the animals perform (by instinct). Humans must be taught, we have been given a mind so that we can think and God will reveal Himself to whomsoever He will. The only ones who imbibe should be drunks. .theology springs from right worship but theology also, in turn, guides and ensures right worship.There is a circular relationship between the two as healthy worship and theology support each otherhow theology can guide the kind of worship that in turn shapes people spirituality. jt: Just like your little trinitarian dance, round and round and round we go...
[TruthTalk] The Truth About the Congo
US is largest contributor to UN Peacekeeping missions. UN Officials rape and abuse refugees in Congo: http://www.heritage.org/Research/InternationalOrganizations/hl868.cfm. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
