[TruthTalk] I Hope I'm Not too Late...
I just wanted to say one last time that it has been such a joy getting to know you all. I praise God for your wisdom and passion. Here's a picture of me grinning ear-to-ear with my mom on Broadway a couple of months ago. My father babysat all of my sisters back home while we two girls painted the town red! I love you all. -Christine Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1/min.
[TruthTalk] Parting Wishes
You have all blessed me on this forum. Discussing new ideas and analyzing scripture with you all has been so edifying, and I believe that God will continue to use what has transpired here. Thank you for encouraging and challenging me, and for opening yourselves up to me. It's been an adventure. Isaiah 26:3 Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.I pray that perfect peace upon you all.Love,Christine Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] emailing: sinnersinhand
Oh c'mon, Lance, I lost my dignity a long time ago to the Lord. If it embarrasses or annoys you, I will try and express myself better, but Jesus is something to be excited about. But I'm not sorry. I will try to do better.Luke 14:33 - Whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IFF the hyperbole via language choices is who you are then, keep 'em and, I'll just factor that in when I read you. I find it a little 'over the top'. - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 05, 2006 16:36Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] emailing: sinnersinhandWhy, Lance? Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Lose the adverbs, Christine. Also, lose the word 'delicious'. - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 05, 2006 12:18Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] emailing: sinnersinhandNo, Lance, I am interested in hearing you answer Dean's question. Or perhaps to put it in a better form, "What reason would God have for hating Dean's behavior?"And you know darn well that Jesus loves you. Voraciously, He loves you, Lance.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: God doesn't hate YOU, Dean. Where'd ya ever cotten on to that sorta thinkin', huh? God loves you and the entire 'cast' of TT ('ceptin me but, y'all are prayin' for me aren't ya?) - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent:
March 05, 2006 10:47Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] emailing: sinnersinhand - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/5/2006 10:32:32 AM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] emailing: sinnersinhandI believe that were you to 'search the scriptures' for that which God hates, this might well not be among them.IMO, of course. cd: O.K. Lance what reason would God have for hating me? - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 05, 2006 10:25Subject: RE: Fw: [TruthTalk] emailing: sinnersinhand - Original Message - From: Debbie
Sawczak To: 'Lance Muir' Sent: March 04, 2006 17:25 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] emailing: sinnersinhandYes! Your post below nailed the issue. Dean rivals Judy for not getting stuff.How cutethat he thinksyou need rescue!
D cd: We will see in time Debbie. Just keep using the "F" words in you language and mocking those who actually believe the wording of the Bible and I assure you I can be patient for the "One Truth" to make his decision and then we will see how "cute" things really are. May God bless you and His light shin upon you. - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 3/4/2006 11:39:55 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] emailing: sinnersinhand'MY' religion, Dean? Thereafter Dean, you assure me that no matter what I might say you will show me differently. Of
course you will, Dean. That's the very point I've been making all along, Dean. cd: aah, but we can support what we say with the word of God Lance-can you?By the way this is wh
Re: [TruthTalk] The End-Times
Lance wrote: they ('the end times) are fodder for disagreement among those who believe that they have read the scriptures aright. I am in agreement (though I believe it is possible to read the scriptures 'aright')! Have you heard the old joke, "Some people are pre-Trib, some are post-Trib, but I'm Pan-Trib. I think it's all going to pan out in the end." :-) Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well Christine, simply that they ('the end times) are fodder for disagreement among those who believe that they have read the scriptures aright. They got them thar 'charts' ya know! I do know that we're 2,000 years
beyond His bodily ascension to the right hand of the Father where He intercedes on our behalf. - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 04, 2006 18:28Subject: [TruthTalk] The End-TimesActually, I don't know. I don't know much about end-times theology, but I do know Jesus is coming back for His Bride. What do you believe about the end-times, Lance?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:I do Christine but, these are not synonymous. Are they? - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 04, 2006 14:46Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
Wait a minute. You don't believe Jesus is returning?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Christine, some are some are not and, yes this one is. The so-called 'rapture' is a theological fiction. Look at the history of William Miller or JNDarby or LaHaye/Jenkins or Clarence Larkin or, or, or... - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 04, 2006 01:10Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?Lance wrote:the rapture is comingIs this a list of ideas that are ridiculous to you? You don't believe the rapture is coming, Lance?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The earth is flat, we did't actually go to the moon (it was shot in a movie studio), the moon is made of green cheese, the universe is geocentric, alien abductions proliferate, the rapture is coming, 6 day young earth creationism ought to be taught in schools (?), RCC is/is not Christian, US foreign policy is flawless,the trilateral commission works for the good of womankind, all TRUE believers understand scripture as it should be understood and all TRUE believers live sin free.Of course facts matter and, they are not irrelevant. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 03, 2006 06:16Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?Facts are such STUBBORN thingsAre they irrelevant in your opinion?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Simply read the 'subject' along with the content ('spirit' - so much anger, judgmentalism, self-righteousness and pride!) of some of the posts of some. I rest my case your honor. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent:
March 02, 2006 19:08Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?Some of those in Rwanda who perpetrated the genocide were believers.WRONG AGAINStop slurring Christians by trying to lump them in with Catholic KILLERS.You play real loose with Facts. Are Facts irrelevant to you?Maybe you need a program so you can
tell apart the players?http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A53018-2002Sep22.htmlRwandan
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] emailing: sinnersinhand
No, Lance, I am interested in hearing you answer Dean's question. Or perhaps to put it in a better form, "What reason would God have for hating Dean's behavior?"And you know darn well that Jesus loves you. Voraciously, He loves you, Lance.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: God doesn't hate YOU, Dean. Where'd ya ever cotten on to that sorta thinkin', huh? God loves you and the entire 'cast' of TT ('ceptin me but, y'all are prayin' for me aren't ya?) - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 05, 2006 10:47Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] emailing: sinnersinhand - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/5/2006 10:32:32 AM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] emailing: sinnersinhandI believe that were you to 'search the scriptures' for that which God hates, this might well not be among them.IMO, of course. cd: O.K. Lance what reason would God have for hating me? - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 05, 2006 10:25Subject: RE: Fw: [TruthTalk] emailing: sinnersinhand - Original Message - From: Debbie Sawczak To: 'Lance Muir' Sent: March 04, 2006 17:25 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] emailing: sinnersinhand
Yes! Your post below nailed the issue. Dean rivals Judy for not getting stuff.How cutethat he thinksyou need rescue!D cd: We will see in time Debbie. Just keep using the "F" words in you language and mocking those who actually believe the wording of the Bible and I assure you I can be patient for the "One Truth" to make his decision and then we will see how "cute" things really are. May God bless you and His light shin upon you. - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 3/4/2006 11:39:55 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] emailing: sinnersinhand'MY' religion, Dean? Thereafter Dean, you assure me that no matter what I might say you will show me differently. Of course you will, Dean. That's the very point I've been making all along, Dean. cd: aah, but we can support what we say with the word of God Lance-can you?By the way this is what you group did to Judy, Lance-How does it feel to have a group of debaters pressing you at one time?I suspect David will help you out soon. --No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free
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Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] emailing: sinnersinhand
Why, Lance? Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lose the adverbs, Christine. Also, lose the word 'delicious'. - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 05, 2006 12:18Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] emailing: sinnersinhandNo, Lance, I am interested in hearing you answer Dean's question. Or perhaps to put it in a better form, "What reason would God have for hating Dean's behavior?"And you know darn well that Jesus loves you. Voraciously, He loves you, Lance.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:God doesn't hate YOU, Dean. Where'd ya ever cotten on to that sorta thinkin', huh? God loves you and the entire 'cast' of TT ('ceptin me but, y'all are prayin' for me aren't ya?) - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 05, 2006 10:47Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] emailing: sinnersinhand - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/5/2006 10:32:32 AM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] emailing: sinnersinhandI believe that were you to 'search the scriptures' for that which God hates, this might well not be among them.IMO, of course. cd: O.K. Lance what reason would God have for hating me? - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 05, 2006 10:25Subject: RE: Fw: [TruthTalk] emailing: sinnersinhand
- Original Message - From: Debbie Sawczak To: 'Lance Muir' Sent: March 04, 2006 17:25 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] emailing: sinnersinhandYes! Your post below nailed the issue. Dean rivals Judy for not getting stuff.How cutethat he thinksyou need
rescue!D cd: We will see in time Debbie. Just keep using the "F" words in you language and mocking those who actually believe the wording of the Bible and I assure you I can be patient for the "One Truth" to make his decision and then we will see how "cute" things really are. May God bless you and His light shin upon you. - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 3/4/2006 11:39:55 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] emailing: sinnersinhand'MY' religion, Dean? Thereafter Dean, you assure me that no matter what I might say you will show me differently. Of course you will, Dean. That's the very point I've
been making all along, Dean. cd: aah, but we can support what we say with the word of God Lance-can you?By the way this is what you group did to Judy, Lance-How does it feel to have a group of debaters pressing you at one time?I suspect David will help you out soon. --No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.2/274 - Release Date: 3/3/2006Yahoo! MailBring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
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Re: [TruthTalk] Talking Truth
So you believe that we cannot know truth, Gary? I want to understand you correctly. Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Re: [TruthTalk] Talking Truth
I agree with you about 1 Cor. 13:12, that we cannot be all-knowing.But I think you are making a distinction between being all-knowing, and simply being able to discern between true and untrue. Will we know the secrets of the universe? Will we ever know for sure who the Nefalim are in Genesis 6? What precisely happened to the Dinosaurs? No, if the Bible doesn't tell us. God has not offered a revelation concerning those things.But the Bible has offered a revelation concering Himself and His son. Do you see the difference? And Jesus promised that we would be led into all truth. I should have clarified the question before, so I'll do it now: what I meant by my initial question was, "Do you think it is possible to know when a statement is true or not?" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ..that's my thinking; in Paul's informative thinking,trutharriving 'in part'*nowalso arrives'face to face' in the future,not inconsistently with, e.g., the 1 Thesspassage Dean is studying*1 Cor 13:12On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 20:28:12 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: yes; pplnot only know (the) truth partially,ppl understand it partially; "knowledge itself is comprised also of [e.g., Lance's]elements [] it has categories (..like 'myth' 'fact')whichare its[interesting]parts"On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 14:09:01 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [Can we]know truth, Gary? I want to understand you correctly. Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Re: [TruthTalk] Fear and cowardice
Lance wrote: I'll pass on this as I see daddy lurking nearby with a verbal baseball bat.If you wish to only insult and speak evil, I am glad you have opted to be silent instead. :-) Lance wrote:(Just a suggestion Christine, lose the _expression_ 'I am reminded'.)Why?What does the Luke 14 passage mean to you, Lance? Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll pass on this as I see daddy lurking nearby with a verbal baseball bat. (Just a suggestion Christine, lose the _expression_ 'I am reminded'.) - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 03, 2006 18:08Subject: [TruthTalk] Fear and cowardiceI think it's the kind of fear that causes you to shrink back in unbelief, or to behave selfishly with the intent of self-preservation.I am reminded of a passage in Luke 14 where Jesus talks about what it means to follow Him:Luke 14:26-3326 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish. 31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple. This passage has always touched me deeply. Even when it appears that I do not have enough funds to complete my building project, I am commanded to build the tower anyway. That's faith. And it's fascinating to me that Jesus specifically points out the pride and self-image involved in these decisions. To submit to fear is to reject the call to discipleship.I am reminded of a quote by GK Chesterton that is popular among the college crowd: "The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried." I think this is kind of fear discussed in Rev. 21. It's also how people become lukewarm Christians: they find certain parts of the gospel to be too risky or difficult, and so they make compromises with God. Thus, they are neither hot nor cold.What I love about the Kingdom of God is that you are absolutley lost without His Spirit. Some acts and feelings are wrong only some of the time, and we must rely on the Spirit to walk according to the will of God in our lives. For instance, sex is not always a sin for all people. I think fear is another example of this. Fear, like sex, glorifies God only some of the time, and we must submit to His Spirit and His word to know what kind of fear we should practice.Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Interesting comment on FEAR. Thanks for pointing that out.(pertaining to Revelation 21) What kind of FEAR do you suppose it is, in contrast to the FEAR of the Lord which is the begining of Knowledge?Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I doubt the writer of this article knows the Lord, Dean. I am not sure I understand your question. I would put moderate Mulims and lukewarm Christians in the same boat. As I see it, their sin is being fearful or cowardly. Rev. 21:8 gives a list of people who will have their place in the lake of fire, listing the cowardly among muderers and idolaters. What makes them lukewarm is their fear. They won't get out of the boat and walk on the water when Jesus bids them come. Now, Jesus never bid the Muslims to come and cause destruction, but I think their sin the same if they will not take a stand against the atrocities of their bretheren. Did I understand your question correctly, Dean?Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:- Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 2/27/2006 6:01:21 PM Subject: [TruthTalk] An excellent Article on Islam Todayhttp://www.davidwarrenonline.com/index.php?artID=576This will be my 11th consecutive column, directly or indirectly on the Danish cartoons issue. Th
Re: [TruthTalk] *********** To all list members-ModeratorComment***************
I agree with you, but I would not blame all tradition (which is what religion is, ultimately, no?). Religion has become been used for evil because man is evil. It's like the old adage about whether or not guns kill people, or people kill people. But just because the answer is "people" does not necessarily mean that you shouldn't put some restictions on the process for purchasing a fire arm. The problem with religion (and also gun control) is that man would still be evil, even without religion and guns.But I agree with what you have written, Lance. :-) Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Were 'religion' to be characterized as (wo)man's self-generated effort at redemption then, I'd say that it IS responsible for much of the evil in the world. Religion is very big in church. - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 03, 2006 18:27Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] *** To all list members-ModeratorComment***G, the lyrics fantacize about a world where there is no God, no consequences for our actions. It's also based on the false idea that man has no fallen nature. And, most offensive to me, it blames the evil in the world on religion, not on our fallen nature. Religion has been the scapegoat for a lot of evil in history and today. Do it in the name of God and you have a special type of defense. But we must recognize the religion isn't evil, tradition isn't evil, man is. That idea is the foundation of our gospel. Man is fallen and needs a savior. Lennon's song refutes that foundation and appeals to man's desire to deceive himself and to lay the blame for our sinful state on someone else, in this case, all religion.Do you disagree?Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: cd: Listen to the words G.- Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 2/28/2006 11:48:18 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] *** To all list members-ModeratorComment*** On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 07:21:01 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Lennons song "Imagine" is an attack against Godhow so, Bro?---for ref: ImagineImagine there's no heaven,It's easy if you try,No hell below us,Above us only sky,Imagine all the peopleliving for today...Imagine there's no countries,It isnt hard to do,Nothing to kill or die for,No religion too,Imagine all the peopleliving life in peace...Imagine no possesions,I wonder if you can,No need for greed or hunger,A brotherhood of man,Imagine all the peopleSharing all the world...You may say Im a dreamer,but Im not the only one,I hope some day you'll join us,And the world will live as one.Writen by: John Lennon© Bag productions inc.Yahoo! MailUse Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. Brings words and photos together (easily) with PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
Re: [TruthTalk] *********** To all list members-ModeratorComment***************
Wow. It must be something really perceptive, because I had a good deal of trouble understanding one sentence of that post. I would heartily appreciate some mediation and perspective if you are willing to share it, Lance. What did Gary mean?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do believe that the G-man is meaning something far more perceptive than that. - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 04, 2006 00:42Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] *** To all list members-ModeratorComment***G wrote:meanwhile, pls give that critique, below,somecritique when its convenient--perhapsyou'll benefit initially more from listening to yourself rather thanbattlingan old goat like me? So, you disagree with my assessment, but don't want to talk about it?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:C, can youfind out ifcd'splanning tosend us to Abu Grabforconversing like this in one of his threads?(maybe ask your Dad to filibusterfor a few days till we're finished:)meanwhile, pls give that critique, below,somecritique when its convenient--perhapsyou'll benefit initially more from listening to yourself rather thanbattlingan old goat like meOn Fri, 3 Mar 2006 15:27:11 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: the [Lennon] lyrics fantacize about a world where there is no GodYahoo! MailBring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
Wait a minute. You don't believe Jesus is returning?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Christine, some are some are not and, yes this one is. The so-called 'rapture' is a theological fiction. Look at the history of William Miller or JNDarby or LaHaye/Jenkins or Clarence Larkin or, or, or... - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 04, 2006 01:10Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?Lance wrote:the rapture is comingIs this a list of ideas that are ridiculous to you? You don't believe the rapture is coming, Lance?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:The earth is flat, we did't actually go to the moon (it was shot in a movie studio), the moon is made of green cheese, the universe is geocentric, alien abductions proliferate, the rapture is coming,
6 day young earth creationism ought to be taught in schools (?), RCC is/is not Christian, US foreign policy is flawless,the trilateral commission works for the good of womankind, all TRUE believers understand scripture as it should be understood and all TRUE believers live sin free.Of course facts matter and, they are not irrelevant. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 03, 2006 06:16Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?Facts are such STUBBORN thingsAre they irrelevant in your opinion?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Simply read the 'subject' along with the content ('spirit' - so much anger, judgmentalism, self-righteousness and pride!) of some of the posts of some. I rest my case your honor. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 02, 2006 19:08Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?Some of those in Rwanda who perpetrated the genocide were believers.WRONG AGAINStop slurring
Christians by trying to lump them in with Catholic KILLERS.You play real loose with Facts. Are Facts irrelevant to you?Maybe you need a program so you can tell apart the players?http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A53018-2002Sep22.htmlRwandan nuns were convicted of murder for their roles in the massacre of 7,000 Tutsis who sought protection at a Benedictine convent.I think that means it was those loving catholics again!Same old RC Church as it ever was:http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4615171an international court is trying several Catholic priests for their alleged role in the massacres, in which Hutus murdered 800,000 minority Tutsis and moderate HutusCatholic World News: http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=39498Kigali, Sep. 08, 2005 (CWNews.com) - Authorities in Rwanda have arrested a Belgian Catholic priest on charges related to the genocidal massacres of 1994.
http://www.globalpolicy.org/intljustice/tribunals/rwanda/2004/0920priest.htmFather Seromba's trial at the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda will revive heated debate about the role of the Catholic Church during the dark days of 1994. The Catholic hierarchy in Rwanda had close ties to extremist politicians in the run up to the genocide and some priests like Father Seromba are accused of actively assisting the Hutu militias. In 2001, two nuns were found guilty of taking part in the genocide in a Belgian court. The Vatican accepts there are individuals in the church who committed crimes, but
controversially, it says the Church as an institution cannot be held to blame. At the time of the genocide, some 60% of Rwandans were Catholic but some have since converted to Islam, saying the Church failed them in 1994. http://www.pambazuka.org/en/category/features/21165Rwanda was the most Christianized country in Africa and the Roman Catholics were far and away the largest Christian denomination. Catholicism was virtually the official state religion. Catholic officials had
Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
? - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/1/2006 11:32:40 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?Christine:If you missed the whole business of our 'moderate' (tor) actually threatening to show up at someone's door in order to do physical violence to them then, ask your dad for an update.It may be that you, IMO wrongly, believe yourself incapable of anger that might lead to some form of harm-doing (verbally/physically). Don't be grieved. Any response to the balance of the email?Lance cd: Lance lets keep this in context. Is some man asked my wife about her sex life in detail I would be at their door. My wife is put under my protection by God himself andI will preformthat duty.That was involved in our earlier discussion that you are bring up.Answer this Lance-If some sodomite was molesting yourunderage son and the Police failed to act what would you do? Or if some rapist broke into you house and was attacking your wife would you defend her with violence? - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 01, 2006 11:22Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?Lance wrote:Believers in all religions are equal opportunity 'throat slitters', Christine. You, Christine, did not threaten such action. Do I believe, under some circumstance, you capable of it? I do.I am grieved that you believe me capable of such actions.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good Afternoon/Morning Christine:Believers in all religions are equal opportunity 'throat slitters', Christine. You, Christine, did not threaten such action. Do I believe, under some circumstance, you capable of it? I do.All speech, Christine, is heard by God. IFO do not believe that US troops ought to be in Afghanistan, Iraq or, in a number of other locations.I therefore believe that you (USA) generate some of the violence that ensues.IFO believe a variation on the former applies to some of the actions taken by you, your dad and, some others on some occasions.IFO recognize the plurality on TT and, can live with it. I believe God embraces this plurality globally.Follow your conscience, Christine and, take to heart the words of Gamaliel in Acts 5:38,39. - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 28, 2006 16:24Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?I'm sorry Lance, I must have missed the part where I threatened to slit your throat in the name of God because you said something I didn't like. See the difference?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mock a Mormon - Amen! Irritate Islam - Praise the Lord
[TruthTalk] The End-Times
Actually, I don't know. I don't know much about end-times theology, but I do know Jesus is coming back for His Bride. What do you believe about the end-times, Lance?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do Christine but, these are not synonymous. Are they? - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 04, 2006 14:46Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?Wait a minute. You don't believe Jesus is returning?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Christine, some are some are not and, yes this one is. The so-called 'rapture' is a theological fiction. Look at the history of William Miller or JNDarby or LaHaye/Jenkins or Clarence Larkin or, or, or...
- Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 04, 2006 01:10Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?Lance wrote:the rapture is comingIs this a list of ideas that are ridiculous to you? You don't believe the rapture is coming, Lance?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The earth is flat, we did't actually go to the moon (it was shot in a movie studio), the moon is made of green cheese, the universe is geocentric, alien abductions proliferate, the rapture is coming, 6 day young earth creationism ought to be taught in schools (?), RCC is/is not Christian, US foreign policy is flawless,the trilateral commission works for the good of womankind, all TRUE believers understand scripture as it should be understood and all TRUE believers live sin free.Of course facts matter and, they are not irrelevant. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 03, 2006 06:16Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?Facts are such STUBBORN thingsAre they irrelevant in your opinion?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Simply read the 'subject' along with the content ('spirit' - so much anger, judgmentalism, self-righteousness and pride!) of some of the posts of some. I rest my case your honor. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 02, 2006 19:08Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?Some of those in Rwanda who perpetrated the genocide were believers.WRONG AGAINStop slurring Christians by trying to lump them in with Catholic KILLERS.You play real loose with Facts. Are Facts irrelevant to you?Maybe you need a program so you can tell apart the players?http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A53018-2002Sep22.htmlRwandan nuns were convicted of murder for their roles in the massacre of 7,000 Tutsis who sought protection at a Benedictine convent.I think that means it was those loving catholics again!Same old RC Church as it ever was:http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4615171an international court is trying several Catholic priests for their alleged role in the massacres, in which Hutus murdered 800,000 minority Tutsis and moderate HutusCatholic World News: http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=39498Kigali, Sep. 08, 2005 (CWNews.com) - Authorities in Rwanda have arrested a Belgian Catholic priest on charges related to the genocidal massacres of 1994. http://www.globalpolicy.org/intljustice/tribunals/rwanda/2004/0920priest.htmFather Seromba's trial at the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda will revive heated debate about the role of the Catholic Church during the dark days of 1994. The Catholic hierarchy in Rwanda had close ties to extremist politicians
Re: [TruthTalk] Emailing: kalashnikov.guns.ru.htm
Title: The AK site. Kalashnikov Home Page LOL You're right, the topic has come up quite a bit today, hasn't it? And independantly of each other too!Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is it with you people and guns? - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 04, 2006 14:51Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Emailing: kalashnikov.guns.ru.htmcd: A very good self defense weapon, Lance-proven thru many battlefields tobe relialable.Do you get my point-Self defense! A 4/10 shot gun is great for your wife when you are not at home-I suggest you get one for her. Did not Christ himself tell his disciple to purchase a sword?Why? Certainly not to attack but to defend.All our families will die if we listen to liberals such as yourself Lance- then after us they will come for your families in Canada-wise up Lance.. - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/4/2006 12:09:20 PM Subject: [TruthTalk] Emailing: kalashnikov.guns.ru.htmDedicated to Kalashnikov and his firearmsAK-74 Assault rifleDeveloped: 1974Caliber: 5.45mmCartridge: 5.45x39Magazine capacity: 30Loaded weight: 3,600gKilling range: 1,350m WTB/WTS/WTT boardSVD boardSKS boardAK-74 boardAsk Tantal or Martin boardFree for all boardmake your discussion boardMore Forums!AK Site Voting.AK Pic Post GalleryAK Site LinksM.T.Kalashnikov MuseumAK Site Chat-users homepages-COBRA sightKUSA-MidwestTantalCode(10)MikeSLRPackratAndyBenKPvt PyleCooper1911MarkSoupBowl Enterpris eswooj61AK AmmoSoupBowl EnterprisesDan's Corner homepageAutoWerkes FirearmsSpecial Operations.comGunHooAmerican Firearm PageChampion FirearmsSecurityArms.comFulton Armory You can add a link to this page from your own home page using this button. © Reproduction in part or whole is allowed with the explicit authorization of the authors. Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Re: [TruthTalk] *********** To all list members-ModeratorComment***************
G wrote: and he's the moderator It was Kevin that wrote that, not Dean. :-) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ..he thinks that semi-auto sawed off self-defense ispretty good (for protectin' hisher)religion, Bro, and he's the moderatorOn Sat, 4 Mar 2006 19:50:53 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..cd's gonna have tosend hera sawed offKalishnikov just to protect herselffrom you, BroOn Sat, 4 Mar 2006 19:40:24 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: whilethe lovelylady's locked intoLennon's lyrics? that's an Ad Hominemif there ever was one, Bro, totally disrespectful, impolite, imprudent, even impudent given the subject line of the threadOn Sat, 4 Mar 2006 13:10:53 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thats it, Thats it, it is MANDATORY Densitivity Training for You!||I had a good deal of trouble understanding one sentence of that post Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Re: [TruthTalk] today an old goat sang this eschatologically on one of his happy birthdays
Happy Birthday, Gary!! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:_Gonna change my way of thinking_Make myself a different set of rules.Gonna change my way of thinking,Make myself a different set of rules.Gonna put my good foot forward,And stop being influenced by fools.So much oppression,Can't keep track of it no more.So much oppression,Can't keep track of it no more.Sons becoming husbands to their mothers,And old men turning young daughters into whores.Stripes on your shoulders,Stripes on your back and on your hands.Stripes on your shoulders,Stripes on your back and on your hands.Swords piercing your side,Blood and water flowing through the land.Well don't know which one is worse,Doing your own thing or just being cool.Well don't know which one is worse,Doing your own thing or just being cool.You remember only about the brass ring,You forget all about the golden rule.You can mislead a man,You can take ahold of his heart with your eyes.You can mislead a man,You can take ahold of his heart with your eyes.But there's only one authority,And that's the authority on high.I got a God-fearing woman,One I can easily afford.I got a God-fearing woman,One I can easily afford.She can do the Georgia crawl,She can walk in the spirit of the Lord.Jesus said, "Be readyFor you know not the hour in which I come."Jesus said, "Be ready,For you know not the hour in which I come."He said, "He who is not for Me is against Me,"Just so you know where He's coming from.There's a kingdom called Heaven,A place where there is no pain of birth.There's a kingdom called Heaven,A place where there is no pain of birth.Well the Lord created it, mister,About the same time He made the earth.Bob Dylan, Copyright © 1979 Special Rider Music Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
[TruthTalk] Fear and cowardice
I think it's the kind of fear that causes you to shrink back in unbelief, or to behave selfishly with the intent of self-preservation.I am reminded of a passage in Luke 14 where Jesus talks about what it means to follow Him:Luke 14:26-33 26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. 27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple. 28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it? 29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him, 30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish. 31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand? 32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace. 33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple. This passage has always touched me deeply. Even when it appears that I do not have enough funds to complete my building project, I am commanded to build the tower anyway. That's faith. And it's fascinating to me that Jesus specifically points out the pride and self-image involved in these decisions. To submit to fear is to reject the call to discipleship.I am reminded of a quote by GK Chesterton that is popular among the college crowd: "The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried." I think this is kind of fear discussed in Rev. 21. It's also how people become lukewarm Christians: they find certain parts of the gospel to be too risky or difficult, and so they make compromises with God. Thus, they are neither hot nor cold.What I love about the Kingdom of God is that you are absolutley lost without His Spirit. Some acts and feelings are wrong only some of the time, and we must rely on the Spirit to walk according to the will of God in our lives. For instance, sex is not always a sin for all people. I think fear is another example of this. Fear, like sex, glorifies God only some of the time, and we must submit to His Spirit and His word to know what kind of fear we should practice.Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting comment on FEAR. Thanks for pointing that out. (pertaining to Revelation 21) What kind of FEAR do you suppose it is, in contrast to the FEAR of the Lord which is the begining of Knowledge? Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I doubt the writer of this article knows the Lord, Dean. I am not sure I understand your question. I would put moderate Mulims and lukewarm Christians in the same boat.As I see it, their sin is being fearful or cowardly. Rev. 21:8 gives a list of people who will have their place in the lake of fire, listing the cowardly among muderers and idolaters. What makes them lukewarm is their fear. They won't get out of the boat and walk on the water when Jesus bids them come. Now, Jesus never bid the Muslims to come and cause destruction, but I think their sin the same if they will not take a stand against the atrocities of their bretheren. Did I understand your question correctly, Dean?Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:- Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/27/2006 6:01:21 PM Subject: [TruthTalk] An excellent Article on Islam Todayhttp://www.davidwarrenonline.com/index.php?artID=576This will be my 11th consecutive column, directly or indirectly on the Danish cartoons issue. The cartoons themselves were a red herring from the start -- a fake issue, trumped up by fanatical Muslims seeking grievances to abet a confrontation, and thereby extract concessions from the West.. . .And from a mixture of fear of, and sympathy for, large, recent, Muslim immigrant communities in the West, we confuse domestic and foreign issues. I do not doubt the great majority of Muslims, in Canada and around the world, are decent, moderate people, who want no part in a clash of civilizations. But it has become obvious they can do nothing to stop the triumph of Islamism internationally, or oppose the fanatics proselytizing in their own communities. cd: Christine what is the difference between a lukewarm Christian and a moderate Moslem?Overlooking the the salvation issue. Yahoo! MailUse Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail
Re: [TruthTalk] *********** To all list members-ModeratorComment***************
G, the lyrics fantacize about a world where there is no God, no consequences for our actions. It's also based on the false idea that man has no fallen nature. And, most offensive to me, it blames the evil in the world on religion, not on our fallen nature. Religion has been the scapegoat for a lot of evil in history and today. Do it in the name of God and you have a special type of defense. But we must recognize the religion isn't evil, tradition isn't evil, man is. That idea is the foundation of our gospel. Man is fallen and needs a savior. Lennon's song refutes that foundation and appeals to man's desire to deceive himself and to lay the blame for our sinful state on someone else, in this case, all religion.Do you disagree?Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: cd: Listen to the words G. - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/28/2006 11:48:18 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] *** To all list members-ModeratorComment*** On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 07:21:01 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Lennons song "Imagine" is an attack against Godhow so, Bro?---for ref: ImagineImagine there's no heaven,It's easy if you try,No hell below us,Above us only sky,Imagine all the peopleliving for today...Imagine there's no countries,It isnt hard to do,Nothing to kill or die for,No religion too,Imagine all the peopleliving life in peace...Imagine no possesions,I wonder if you can,No need for greed or hunger,A brotherhood of man,Imagine all the peopleSharing all the world...You may say Im a dreamer,but Im not the only one,I hope some day you'll join us,And the world will live as one.Writen by: John Lennon© Bag productions inc. Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
Re: [TruthTalk] *********** To all list members-ModeratorComment***************
G wrote: meanwhile, pls give that critique, below,somecritique when its convenient--perhapsyou'll benefit initially more from listening to yourself rather thanbattlingan old goat like me? So, you disagree with my assessment, but don't want to talk about it?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: C, can youfind out ifcd'splanning tosend us to Abu Grabforconversing like this in one of his threads?(maybe ask your Dad to filibusterfor a few days till we're finished:)meanwhile, pls give that critique, below,somecritique when its convenient--perhapsyou'll benefit initially more from listening to yourself rather thanbattlingan old goat like meOn Fri, 3 Mar 2006 15:27:11 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: the [Lennon] lyrics fantacize about a world where there is no God Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
Lance wrote: the rapture is comingIs this a list of ideas that are ridiculous to you? You don't believe the rapture is coming, Lance? Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The earth is flat, we did't actually go to the moon (it was shot in a movie studio), the moon is made of green cheese, the universe is geocentric, alien abductions proliferate, the rapture is coming, 6 day young earth creationism ought to be taught in schools (?), RCC is/is not Christian, US foreign policy is flawless,the trilateral commission works for the good of womankind, all TRUE believers understand scripture as it should be
understood and all TRUE believers live sin free.Of course facts matter and, they are not irrelevant. - Original Message - From: Kevin
Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 03, 2006 06:16Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?Facts are such STUBBORN thingsAre they irrelevant in your opinion?Lance
Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Simply read the 'subject' along with the content ('spirit' - so much anger, judgmentalism, self-righteousness and pride!) of some of the posts of some. I rest my case your honor. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 02, 2006 19:08Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?Some of those in Rwanda who perpetrated the genocide were believers.WRONG AGAINStop slurring Christians by trying to lump them in with Catholic KILLERS.You play real loose with Facts. Are Facts irrelevant to you?Maybe you need a program so you can tell apart the players?http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A53018-2002Sep22.htmlRwandan nuns were convicted of murder for their
roles in the massacre of 7,000 Tutsis who sought protection at a Benedictine convent.I think that means it was those loving catholics again!Same old RC Church as it ever was:http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4615171an international court is trying several Catholic priests for their alleged role in the massacres, in which Hutus murdered 800,000 minority Tutsis and moderate HutusCatholic World News: http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=39498Kigali, Sep. 08, 2005 (CWNews.com) - Authorities in Rwanda have arrested a Belgian Catholic priest on charges related to the genocidal massacres of 1994. http://www.globalpolicy.org/intljustice/tribunals/rwanda/2004/0920priest.htmFather Seromba's trial at the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda will revive heated debate about the role of the Catholic Church during the dark days of 1994. The Catholic hierarchy in Rwanda had close ties to extremist politicians in the run up to the genocide and some priests like Father Seromba are accused of actively assisting the Hutu militias.
In 2001, two nuns were found guilty of taking part in the genocide in a Belgian court. The Vatican accepts there are individuals in the church who committed crimes, but controversially, it says the Church as an institution cannot be held to blame. At the time of the genocide, some 60% of Rwandans were Catholic but some have since converted to Islam, saying the Church failed them in 1994. http://www.pambazuka.org/en/category/features/21165Rwanda was the most Christianized country in Africa and the Roman Catholics were far and away the largest Christian denomination. Catholicism was virtually the official state religion. Catholic
officials had enormous influence at both the elite and the grassroots level, which they consistently failed to use to protest against the governments overtly racist policies and practices. Indeed, the Church gave the government moral authority. Once the genocide began, Catholic leaders in the main refused to condemn the government, never used the word genocide, and many individual priests and nuns actually aided the genocidaires.This is just another show of what happens when the Catholics the Government are in BED TOG$TH$RAbSOLUTE ANNIHILATION whether it was then or now. Call it genocide if you want I call it the TRUE BELIEVER doing service to their 'god'Catholic and Reformed Catholic are just as TOLERANT as the MuslimGENOCIDE IS Roman Catholicism! "And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of
Re: [TruthTalk] Listen to the song (War) watch the film 'Lord of War' then,........
Lance, there's a difference between the titles people take on for themselves and what they really do or believe. There are a ton of people who call themselves Christians, but they do not really believe and submit to Christ.This is the same thing James was talking about when he spoke of dead faith. If you tell a cold man to be warm without making any effort to help him be warm, you are not being sincere in your words. People do it all the time with titles.We can discuss whether or not believers have done wrongly in history, but do you first see why we make this distinction?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ask yourself the question 'What are believers/christians/followers of Christ capable of? You've got problems enough inside the box (USA) but, when you think outside the box (exporting your own problems around the globe) well...I leave it to the honest among you.. Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
Lance wrote: Believers in all religions are equal opportunity 'throat slitters', Christine. You, Christine, did not threaten such action. Do I believe, under some circumstance, you capable of it? I do.I am grieved that you believe me capable of such actions. Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good Afternoon/Morning Christine:Believers in all religions are equal opportunity 'throat slitters', Christine. You, Christine, did not threaten such action. Do I believe, under some circumstance, you capable of it? I do.All speech, Christine, is heard by God. IFO do not believe that US troops ought to be in Afghanistan, Iraq or, in a number of other locations.I therefore believe that you (USA) generate some of the violence that ensues.IFO believe a variation on the former applies to some of the actions taken by you, your dad and, some others on some occasions.IFO recognize the plurality on TT and, can live with it. I believe God embraces this plurality globally.Follow your conscience, Christine and, take to heart the words of Gamaliel in Acts 5:38,39. - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 28, 2006 16:24Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?I'm sorry Lance, I must have missed the part where I threatened to slit your throat in the name of God because you said something I didn't like. See the difference?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Mock a Mormon - Amen! Irritate Islam - Praise the Lord! Confront Christianity by preaching at, not to, secularism, feminism, homosexuality, adultery and, every other evil never to be found within the believing community (?) Confront Christianity (real believers)-Begone you spirit of the evil one!Yes, it is difficult to offer up equitable posts on all issues.Brings words and photos together (easily) withPhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
[TruthTalk] Are all religions created equal?
Lance wrote: All religions are equal opportunity 'throat-slitters'.Do you believe there is such a thing as a false religion? Can someone have a false belief?Acts 5:38-39 is an excellent argument against Islamism, thank you. No one should forcibly oppose a person who wishes to discuss doctrine or thoughts. When they seek to kill me because I don't accept their prophet, they are going against the advice offered in here in Acts 5. I would like to point out that, however sensitive a person you may be, raising discussion on the validity of a person's beliefs is not forcibly opposing them, or attacking them. There is a difference there that aren't recognizing. Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Christine:All religions are equal opportunity 'throat-slitters'. I did not believe you were threatening such an action, Christine. Do I believe that circumstances could exist where you might? Yes.I believe that those who foment violence are accountable for that which ensues. On a macro level that, IMO, includes the US presence where it ought not be. On a micro level that includes persons who, while well intentioned, ought not be doing that which they are doing.God is a 'globalist'!. How could he not be? He's God! God embraces plurality! Once again, He's God! God 'hears' everything that everyone says without exception.I suggest that you continue to follow your conscience while bearing in mind Acts 5:38,39. Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
I'm sorry Lance, I must have missed the part where I threatened to slit your throat in the name of God because you said something I didn't like. See the difference? Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mock a Mormon - Amen! Irritate Islam - Praise the Lord! Confront Christianity by preaching at, not to, secularism, feminism, homosexuality, adultery and, every other evil never to be found within the believing community (?) Confront Christianity (real believers)-Begone you spirit of the evil one!Yes, it is difficult to offer up equitable posts on all issues. Brings words and photos together (easily) with PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
Re: [TruthTalk] An excellent Article on Islam Today
I agree that we should brace ourselves for Islam's wrath. But I say that these cartoons have succeed in revealing Islam for the hateful religion that it is. You seem to be in favor of comprismising integrity for peace at all costs. I will agree with you on this--up to a point. After that point, it is important to take a stand. That's what it means to have integrity.Romans 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.It is not possible if they love my death more than their own life. We can't afford to be numb to their hatred for too long. Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The cartoons WERE a red herring from the start. However, you who would instigate violence should be prepared when violence ensues. (I speak again of the 'fomenters') - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 27, 2006 18:00Subject: [TruthTalk] An excellent Article on Islam Todayhttp://www.davidwarrenonline.com/index.php?artID=576This will be my 11th consecutive column, directly or indirectly on the Danish cartoons issue. The cartoons themselves were a red herring from the start -- a fake issue, trumped up by fanatical Muslims seeking grievances to abet a confrontation, and thereby extract concessions from the West.. . .And from a mixture of fear of, and sympathy for, large, recent, Muslim immigrant communities in the West, we confuse domestic and foreign issues. I do not doubt the great majority of Muslims, in Canada and around the world, are decent, moderate people, who want no part in a clash of civilizations. But it has become obvious they can do nothing to stop the triumph of Islamism internationally, or oppose the fanatics proselytizing in their own communities.Yahoo! MailUse Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Re: [TruthTalk] An excellent Article on Islam Today
Your post makes me wonder, Lance. Do you believe that Christians and Muslims pray to the same God?http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=19070onlyHey Lance, are you trying to equate my father's sign with these signs? Christianity and Islam are as different as my father's message is from these men's message.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The cartoons WERE a red herring from the start. However, you who would instigate violence should be prepared when violence ensues. (I speak again of the 'fomenters') - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 27, 2006 18:00Subject: [TruthTalk] An excellent Article on Islam Todayhttp://www.davidwarrenonline.com/index.php?artID=576This will be my 11th consecutive column, directly or indirectly on the Danish cartoons issue. The cartoons themselves were a red herring from the start -- a fake issue, trumped up by fanatical Muslims seeking grievances to abet a confrontation, and thereby extract concessions from the West.. . .And from a mixture of fear of, and sympathy for, large, recent, Muslim immigrant communities in the West, we confuse domestic and foreign issues. I do not doubt the great majority of Muslims, in Canada and around the world, are decent, moderate people, who want no part in a clash of civilizations. But it has become obvious they can do nothing to stop the triumph of Islamism internationally, or oppose the fanatics proselytizing in their own communities.Yahoo! MailUse Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
[TruthTalk] Not Going to Criticize This?
Just came across this article. I am curious as to whether it would be rude to criticize such behavior.Lance, I recognize that you are correct: criticizing Islam poses a serious risk, as we have seen from the rioting around the world in response to these cartoon wars. These riots show how dangerous this religion is, how blood thirsty. We should not shrink back from questioning their beliefs. To do so would be to allow them rule over their opposition. And believe me, they mean to do so, with or without our pacified acquiescence. Do you not see the importance of questioning everything? Even at the expense of a few hurt feelings? What kind of God is Allah that he cannot take a few cartoons?Anyhow, here is a touching article about a mother and her daughter. And some children in a hospital.http://israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=99327Al-Bas intended to bomb Be'er Sheva's Soroka Hospital outpatient clinic, where she had been receiving regular treatments for serious burns on 45 percent of her body resulting from a gas stove explosion in her home.The failed bomber later told Israeli television that her greatest wish was to kill 30 to 50 Israelis, including children. The hospital attack would likely have killed or maimed the very Israeli doctor who had saved her life.Al-Bas' mother said in the PA TV interview that she knew that her daughter had wanted to be a martyr since she was a little girl, but had not encouraged her - not because she opposed the idea of suicide bombing, but because Wafa was female. "If it was a boy, I would have supported, but since she is a girl I discouraged," she said. Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
[TruthTalk] An excellent Article on Islam Today
http://www.davidwarrenonline.com/index.php?artID=576 This will be my 11th consecutive column, directly or indirectly on the Danish cartoons issue. The cartoons themselves were a red herring from the start -- a fake issue, trumped up by fanatical Muslims seeking grievances to abet a confrontation, and thereby extract concessions from the West.. . .And from a mixture of fear of, and sympathy for, large, recent, Muslim immigrant communities in the West, we confuse domestic and foreign issues. I do not doubt the great majority of Muslims, in Canada and around the world, are decent, moderate people, who want no part in a clash of civilizations. But it has become obvious they can do nothing to stop the triumph of Islamism internationally, or oppose the fanatics proselytizing in their own communities. Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
[TruthTalk] Is it wrong to insult a religion?
Lance wrote: DH has chosen The Mormon religion. To insult his religion is akin to the "cartoon incident' re: the Muslims.Is it wrong to insult a religion? Lance, what are your thoughts regarding the Cartoon wars? -ChristinePS- Thanks for the invite, Dean. I will try to become as active as my studies allow. (emphasis on the "as my studies allow" part.) Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I disagree. DH has chosen The Mormon religion. To insult his religion is akin to the "cartoon incident' re: the Muslims. If John Lennon were to have been my brother then, I'd most assuredly receive that as an personal insult. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 26, 2006 09:06Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] *** To all list members-ModeratorComment*** - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/26/2006 7:34:48 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] *** To all list members-ModeratorComment***IFO took your, and Judy's, evaluation of John Calvin to be nothing short of an insult. However, should you 'rule' on this matter thus eliminating your/my assessment to be off limits then, we would have no ongoing dialogue. cd: Maybe to John Calvin but not towards you-see the difference?If the truth insults then that person needs to change not the truth. If I were to say that John Lennon was a pig-that is acceptable as I am not making a personal attack on you.But if I were to insult you by calling you names then I have personally attacked you and would be in error to do so Lance. If I were to say to DavH : Mormons are stupid I have not attacked DavH but rather my attack was on the teaching of Mormonism. In short-express your self but don't let it get personal.By the way, wasn't there some kind of mystery 'rule' about not responding to posts with the above subject heading?No-there isn't any "new rule". This is the same rule Perry enforced. If I make the call that someone has broken the Ad. Hom. rule- that protects others from verbal assaults- then reply to that in private. If I did not enforce thisthen the issue of that person wrongs will become part of the debate and become unsolvable as others got involved.-this is for you protection as well as others. The non-enforcing of some past Moderators has lead to many good minds leaving this site.If these attacks continue Lance it will only be a couple of people here and how long can two /three people carry on the same conversation? - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 26, 2006 07:10Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] *** To all list members-Moderator Comment*** - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/26/2006 4:13:42 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] *** To all list members-Moderator Comment***You spoke my question "G"? Moderator-This simply means that the rules against insults and personal attacks are going to be unforced by me-others are under my protection and will get fair treatment-I owe that to God not to those who will not keep their agreement and abide by the rules.- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 25, 2006 18:07Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] *** To all list members-Moderator Comment***ftr, what does this mean?On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 16:40:32 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:I plan on enforcing the rules of protection on TT against those who love ch[ao]s Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
Re: [TruthTalk] Is it wrong to insult a religion?
Did you just copy and paste an e. e. cummings poem in there, Gary?? In my teeny-bopper world, we speak in sentences. Would you mind translating that into common vernacular? :-)(Thanks for the inclusion.)[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: thinkin' person's variation 1 (women included:)On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 19:49:09 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..thoughts regarding the Cartoon wars? today's cartoons, as the art form has accomplished in the past,presagethe realchaoscoming | 'noocuuler' engagement is brewing, e.g., when theisraeli air force (partic the elite69th squadron) bolts from the baghdad blue sky, bunker bustg the budding iranian (nuclear) arsenal[,] query saddam h., et. al.abouttheconcept:'under ground', where, when radical[s] change[..] your teenybopperworld[..], the wordchaoscould be easier to spell correctly Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
[TruthTalk] I am not the judge, but I bear testimony of the Judge
David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lance, I am among those who keep the commandments of Jesus and walk in love. I have stated such many times. I believe the Lord is able to keep me from sin and transgressions for the rest of my life. Those who are born of God do not sin. This is reality. Deception comes from those who say they are in Christ and yet continue in their addiction to sin. Christ is light and in him is no darkness at all.As for my being on the same footing as the lost of the world in my need for redemption, you are right. I preach such almost every time I preach to sinners. I preach that I cannot point my finger of judgment because I am in need of mercy just like they are in need of mercy. I am not the Judge, but rather I only bear testimony of the Judge because I know him and he has sent me.David Miller- Original Message - From: Lance MuirTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 5:50 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Greek Present IndicativeDAVID:We await your response to the specific post re:DM/SIN Was it not you who made the christology/sin along with the ideaological/pragmatic distinction?DAVID:It may be that not unlike the cast in 'Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room' that though your Greek grammar, logic, vocabulary aand your grooming (?) are impeccable, IFF you, along with the rest of humanity, ACTUALLY DO SIN IN THOUGHT/WORD/DEED DAILY then, you are simply wrong for the 'right' reasons. Don't be affeared David, y'all wouldn't be the first to have so thoroughly 'missed the mark'.(theologically) Thank the Lord David, provision has been made for such as you.We promise not to make up signs reading 'BEWARE! DAVID MILLER, A (redeemed) SINNER (past, present and, future) ONE WHO STANDS ON EQUALSINFUL FOOTING WITH QUEERS RESIDES AT THIS HOME'From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: February 18, 2006 20:32Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Greek Present IndicativeYou are still sticking with your bias of how you have been taught to readthe present tense. Don't you notice how you keep retranslating the wordsinto an ing form that accepted translators do not use in their translations(KJV, NASB, etc.)? I don't care about the translations. It (ing) is a way of bring out the linear action of the verb and it is the accepted manner of doing so in all the grammars I have seen. What do you think I was presenting to you when I gave sources complete with page reference? They all use the "ing" and for the same reason I use that ending. Are you suggesting that Robertson's comments (as you understand them) trumps all of these grammictal illustration? That the first year boys simply did not get it right -- all of them? But more than that -- you do not think that "walk in the light" is an ONGOING activity? Or that as long as I deny sin ()whatever that means) I will CONTINUE to be considered a liar. You don't see that? And, are you saying that present indicative actives never mean to imply linear action?jd --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
Re: [TruthTalk] I am not the judge, but I bear testimony of the Judge
Ha! Sorry about this post. When someone makes an excellent point I like to keep and remember, I save the post in my drafts folder and highlight the point for reference. I hit "send" instead of "save as draft." Apologies!Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lance, I am among those who keep the commandments of Jesus and walk in love. I have stated such many times. I believe the Lord is able to keep me from sin and transgressions for the rest of my life. Those who are born of God do not sin. This is reality. Deception comes from those who say they are in Christ and yet continue in their addiction to sin. Christ is light and in him is no darkness at all.As for my being on the same footing as the lost of the world in my need for redemption, you are right. I preach such almost every time I preach to sinners. I preach that I cannot point my finger of judgment because I am in need of mercy just like they are in need of mercy. I am not the Judge, but rather I only bear testimony of the Judge because I know him and he has sent me.David Miller- Original Message - From: Lance MuirTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 5:50 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Greek Present IndicativeDAVID:We await your response to the specific post re:DM/SIN Was it not you who made the christology/sin along with the ideaological/pragmatic distinction?DAVID:It may be that not unlike the cast in 'Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room' that though your Greek grammar, logic, vocabulary aand your grooming (?) are impeccable, IFF you, along with the rest of humanity, ACTUALLY DO SIN IN THOUGHT/WORD/DEED DAILY then, you are simply wrong for the 'right' reasons. Don't be affeared David, y'all wouldn't be the first to have so thoroughly 'missed the mark'.(theologically) Thank the Lord David, provision has been made for such as you.We promise not to make up signs reading 'BEWARE! DAVID MILLER, A (redeemed) SINNER (past, present and, future) ONE WHO STANDS ON EQUALSINFUL FOOTING WITH QUEERS RESIDES AT THIS HOME'From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: February 18, 2006 20:32Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Greek Present IndicativeYou are still sticking with your bias of how you have been taught to readthe present tense. Don't you notice how you keep retranslating the wordsinto an ing form that accepted translators do not use in their translations(KJV, NASB, etc.)? I don't care about the translations. It (ing) is a way of bring out the linear action of the verb and it is the accepted manner of doing so in all the grammars I have seen. What do you think I was presenting to you when I gave sources complete with page reference? They all use the "ing" and for the same reason I use that ending. Are you suggesting that Robertson's comments (as you understand them) trumps all of these grammictal illustration? That the first year boys simply did not get it right -- all of them? But more than that -- you do not think that "walk in the light" is an ONGOING activity? Or that as long as I deny sin ()whatever that means) I will CONTINUE to be considered a liar. You don't see that? And, are you saying that present indicative actives never mean to imply linear action?jd --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars.
[TruthTalk] I am not the judge, but I bear testimony of the Judge
David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lance, I am among those who keep the commandments of Jesus and walk in love. I have stated such many times. I believe the Lord is able to keep me from sin and transgressions for the rest of my life. Those who are born of God do not sin. This is reality. Deception comes from those who say they are in Christ and yet continue in their addiction to sin. Christ is light and in him is no darkness at all.As for my being on the same footing as the lost of the world in my need for redemption, you are right. I preach such almost every time I preach to sinners. I preach that I cannot point my finger of judgment because I am in need of mercy just like they are in need of mercy. I am not the Judge, but rather I only bear testimony of the Judge because I know him and he has sent me.David Miller- Original Message - From: Lance MuirTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 5:50 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Greek Present IndicativeDAVID:We await your response to the specific post re:DM/SIN Was it not you who made the christology/sin along with the ideaological/pragmatic distinction?DAVID:It may be that not unlike the cast in 'Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room' that though your Greek grammar, logic, vocabulary aand your grooming (?) are impeccable, IFF you, along with the rest of humanity, ACTUALLY DO SIN IN THOUGHT/WORD/DEED DAILY then, you are simply wrong for the 'right' reasons. Don't be affeared David, y'all wouldn't be the first to have so thoroughly 'missed the mark'.(theologically) Thank the Lord David, provision has been made for such as you.We promise not to make up signs reading 'BEWARE! DAVID MILLER, A (redeemed) SINNER (past, present and, future) ONE WHO STANDS ON EQUALSINFUL FOOTING WITH QUEERS RESIDES AT THIS HOME'From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: February 18, 2006 20:32Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Greek Present IndicativeYou are still sticking with your bias of how you have been taught to readthe present tense. Don't you notice how you keep retranslating the wordsinto an ing form that accepted translators do not use in their translations(KJV, NASB, etc.)? I don't care about the translations. It (ing) is a way of bring out the linear action of the verb and it is the accepted manner of doing so in all the grammars I have seen. What do you think I was presenting to you when I gave sources complete with page reference? They all use the "ing" and for the same reason I use that ending. Are you suggesting that Robertson's comments (as you understand them) trumps all of these grammictal illustration? That the first year boys simply did not get it right -- all of them? But more than that -- you do not think that "walk in the light" is an ONGOING activity? Or that as long as I deny sin ()whatever that means) I will CONTINUE to be considered a liar. You don't see that? And, are you saying that present indicative actives never mean to imply linear action?jd --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos
Re: [TruthTalk] Fem. God- Dave H. get bathing suit.
Of course, Lance. My reason for making the post in the first place was to bless others, and not just Dean. I wanted to point out that JD was not saying something constructive there. Perhaps you are right, that I did not bless as much as I could have, because I did not include the scipture I had in mind:James 3:17-18 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. 18And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.Hope this encourages... Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can one 'truthfully' (Christine?) conclude such an post with 'blessings'? - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 15, 2006 09:22Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fem. God- Dave H. get bathing suit.Thanks for the drive-by, Christine. -- Original message -- From: Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] JD wrote:Your agenda hasdone nothing in a positive way for this forum. Nothing. I have been blessed many times by Dean's posts. From what I can remember, he has always quoted relevant scripture. The above sentence you have written has done nothing in a positive way for this forum, JD.Blessings[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Youpass out scripture as if you have proven your point!! . Virtually none of the scripture I have seen you quote has much to do with any of the discussions in which they are used. This is a case in point. The Canadian Bishop says this: "It ain't up to you Dean, to 'allow' a fool to continue in her/his folly. My goodness, just look at TT!" and you quote a passage that speaks of the innate value of scripture and has NOTHING to do with giving you "authority" to go out into the world pointing fingersof judgmentas if you are getting something done for the Lord. In fact, I Cor 5:11-13 tells you NOT to do what you do. Finally, Dean, this II Tim passage not only says NOTHING in defense of what you do as a SP (and even on this forum), it is information given "that the man of God " might be complete. The reproof and correction mentioned in this passage is directed AT THE MAN OF GOD THAT HE MIGHT BE THOROUGLY FURNISHED and NOT anyone in the world Finally, you miss the point when Lance says "My goodness, just look at TT!"Do you miss his point? Your agenda hasdone nothing in a positive way for this forum. Nothing.jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 2/14/2006 7:18:26 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fem. God- Dave H. get bathing suit.It ain't up to you Dean, to 'allow' a fool to continue in her/his folly. My goodness, just look at TT!cd: That is not what the Bible says Lance.This has been given many times you should study it.2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 14, 2006 07:10 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fem. God- Dave H. get bathing suit. - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 2/13/2006 10:38:50 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fem. God- Dave H. get bathing suit.the Judge himself actually judges ppl with understanding, gentlemen--he engenders understanding with wisdom and righteousness as he goes, as herenders truth truthfully among us who know him--the stark contrast of your spirits methods provoke me (to comment:) (in this context:)
Re: [TruthTalk] Fem. God- Dave H. get bathing suit.
You will have to forgive me, I am not aware of how the church has historically mistreated women. I am not saying I doubt that this is possible, since I know that human kind has used religion in the past to do evil, but I am curious what historical events you have in mind, Lance. When were women railed upon?BlessingsLance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dean:Would you say the same thing in different words while demonstrating how what you've said relates to my critique of DM/CM?I've mentioned on numerous occasions the legacy of the church as to it's treatment of women over the centuries without any acknowledgement whatsoever. IMO the conduct of the believing community vis a vis women is comparable to its treatment of slaves and first nations people groups.. I'd not totally disagree with DM/CM's summary of the agenda underlying the conduct of homosexuals/feminists. HOWEVER, we'd best look to our own behavioural history. It just might be that our repentance is called for in order to achieve some reconciliation.Thoughts?- Original Message - From: "Dean Moore" To: Sent: February 10, 2006 15:32Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fem. God- Dave H. get bathing suit. Sorry Christine but, this is just is just Christine 'McMiller' speaking (as in Edgar Bergen Charlie McCarthy - for Judy's research). The harm done to women, both in the church and in society at large, by your Dad and, by extension, yourself is reprehensible. You may one day have a 'voice' of your own but, for the time being you are but an androgenous version of DM. -- Lance-wouldn't all of God's Children act/react in a simular way. If they have been taught by the same Father. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars.
Re: [TruthTalk] Fem. God- Dave H. get bathing suit.
Lance wrote: you are but an androgenous version of DM.Aw, I am complimented, but I would have been more complimented if you had said that I am an androgenous version of Jesus, since that is actually what I am going for. But I will settle for being like my dad and consider that a hearty step in the right direction. :-) Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry Christine but, this is just is just Christine 'McMiller' speaking (as in Edgar Bergen Charlie McCarthy - for Judy's research). The harm done to women, both in the church and in society at large, by your Dad and, by extension, yourself is reprehensible. You may one day have a 'voice' of your own but, for the time being you are but an androgenous version of DM. - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 08, 2006 15:52Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fem. God- Dave H. get bathing suit.Why is sexism a bad thing, Lance? I know you have been brainwashed to understand that term to mean something horrible and unethical, but we would be foolish to ignore that men and women are different from one another. I appreciate you offering me an apology, but I was not offended by Dean's remarks. Even if I was offended, Dean is entitled to his opinion, and should not lose his office of Moderator for having an opinion that isn't politically correct. You are attempting to institute Thought Crime, here, Lance. I'm pretty sure George Orwell wrote "1984" as a warning, not as a How-to Book.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Sorry Judy? How about sorry Christine, Mrs. David Miller, Mrs. everybody who might read this thoroughly sexist remark. How about David 'lifting' you as Moderator (?) immediately? This remark, IMO, goes far beyond the minor engagement between DH and miscellaneous others.As to the latter Dean, it is always wise to know when someone WON'T be 'proven wrong' on an issue. I perceive that this is one of those, Dean. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 08, 2006 11:49Subject: [TruthTalk] Fem. God- Dave H. get bathing suit. - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/8/2006 11:34:58 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Rightousness (jd 2 cd)Originality not being your strong suit Dean, you are to be commended on parroting Judy's perpetual jibe. As neither of you knows whereof you speak, we'll just smile in response. Of all things that I'd not anticipated from you, JT DM was 'buddying up' with the Mormons. You may just be out of your league as Moderator. You are out of your league theologically. Mayhap a call to DM would prove helpful prior entering the ring on this one again. You will need much more than Webster's dictionary, I'm afraid.\cd: :-) Hello DavH O' buddy how are you today-aren't you glad our God isn't feminine so the earth won't be flooded once a month(sorry Judy-butI'm getting visions of an angry female God with lighting bolts-scary)?So Lance why don't you prove me wrong instead of waiting to agreewith the disagreeables. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 08, 2006 11:14Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Rightousness (jd 2 cd) - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/8/2006 10:56:08 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Rightousness (jd 2 cd)FWIW Bill, I'd suggest that we leave Dean, DM, JT and perhaps even DH, to Amen one another on this issue.You are correct that they are flirting with a position remarkably close to the Mormons. One can 'hear' the level of certitude being expressed. cd: Well .Lance that could leave you time to work on you language-what is it called again? Dancing English? A language that changesmeaning when you want it to-which will go well with your Dancing bible and your Dancing gospel. - Origin
Re: [TruthTalk] Fem. God- Dave H. get bathing suit.
Lance wrote:The harm done to women, both in the church and in society at largeLance what harm have I done? Are my ideologies so offensive? I take my cue from the Bible, from Jesus confirming the Bible's wisdom in my heart, and from living with a strong, Godly woman: my mother. Your comment here is strikingly similar to the students here on campus, who are offended by my thinking and call me "dangerous" and a "bigot." I don't see the harm that stems from loving Jesus and seeking His will. If I can say, with a pure heart, that I desire both of those, there is nothing harmful about my views. BlessingsLance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry Christine but, this is just is just Christine 'McMiller' speaking (as in Edgar Bergen Charlie McCarthy - for Judy's research). The harm done to women, both in the church and in society at large, by your Dad and, by extension, yourself is reprehensible. You may one day have a 'voice' of your own but, for the time being you are but an androgenous version of DM. - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 08, 2006 15:52Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fem. God- Dave H. get bathing suit.Why is sexism a bad thing, Lance? I know you have been brainwashed to understand that term to mean something horrible and unethical, but we would be foolish to ignore that men and women are different from one another. I appreciate you offering me an apology, but I was not offended by Dean's remarks. Even if I was offended, Dean is entitled to his opinion, and should not lose his office of Moderator for having an opinion that isn't politically correct. You are attempting to institute Thought Crime, here, Lance. I'm pretty sure George Orwell wrote "1984" as a warning, not as a How-to Book.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry Judy? How about sorry Christine, Mrs. David Miller, Mrs. everybody who might read this thoroughly sexist remark. How about David 'lifting' you as Moderator (?) immediately? This remark, IMO, goes far beyond the minor engagement between DH and miscellaneous others.As to the latter Dean, it is always wise to know when someone WON'T be 'proven wrong' on an issue. I perceive that this is one of those, Dean. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 08, 2006 11:49Subject: [TruthTalk] Fem. God- Dave H. get bathing suit. - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/8/2006 11:34:58 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Rightousness (jd 2 cd)Originality not being your strong suit Dean, you are to be commended on parroting Judy's perpetual jibe. As neither of you knows whereof you speak, we'll just smile in response. Of all things that I'd not anticipated from you, JT DM was 'buddying up' with the Mormons. You may just be out of your league as Moderator. You are out of your league theologically. Mayhap a call to DM would prove helpful prior entering the ring on this one again. You will need much more than Webster's dictionary, I'm afraid.\cd: :-) Hello DavH O' buddy how are you today-aren't you glad our God isn't feminine so the earth won't be flooded once a month(sorry Judy-butI'm getting visions of an angry female God with lighting bolts-scary)?So Lance why don't you prove me wrong instead of waiting to agreewith the disagreeables. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 08, 2006 11:14Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Rightousness (jd 2 cd) - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/8/2006 10:56:08 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Rightousness (jd 2 cd)FWIW Bill, I'd suggest that we leave Dean, DM, JT and perhaps even DH, to Amen one another on this issue.You are correct that they are flirting with a position remarkably close to the Mormons. One can 'hear' the level of certitude being expressed.cd: Well .Lance tha
Re: [TruthTalk] God female?
Dean wrote: First this passage says that God created man in his image- then it goes on to say He created both males and females.I see no contradictions to me statements here-unless one believe there is no difference between males and females. Bingo! There is the catch. Until you can jump this hurdle, Dean, you and JD will not see eye to eye on this issue. 1 Cor. 11:7 was an excellent point, by the way.Blessings,Christine David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dean rightly understood that your premise was that the Jewish CULTURE attributed masculinity to God. Dean made a most excellent response to your position.David Miller.- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 1:19 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] God female?cd: This makes no sense at all to me John-The culture decided what God is?Can they now decide he is a women? What if they decide He is a calf?Good move, Dean !!! Don't deal with the arugment presentedclaiming ignorace of my intent. And what faith should I have in further explanation in view of the fact that you did not understand what I wrote in the first place? Why is it that you cliam to understand the biblical message but cannot understand what I have said? Amazing. Intellectually, we are not on the same planet. You, of course, being much my superior.See ya,jd- Original Message - From:To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalkCc: Dean MooreSent: 2/8/2006 12:31:57 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] God female?Keep on ignoring Gen 1:27 , Dean.There is no sex with God. He is neither male or female in a sexual sort of way. And why is the masculine used? Ever heard of "cultural demands?" Since God is not an "it," since He is a person, we must use either maculine or feminine. The culture of the Jew gave us the masculine reference. The fact of the matter is bound to scripture -- namely Gen 1:27. ... you'll recognize that reference because it is the one you and Judy keep ignoring. There, we have a clear (to most) revelation concerning a small aspect of "God's image." Since one cannot be both "male and female," since Adam AND Eve both are the image of God, "the image of God" has little to nothing to do the gender.jdcd: This makes no sense at all to me John-The culture decided what God is?Can they now decide he is a women? What if they decide He is a calf?Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.First this passage says that God created man in his image- then it goes on to say He created both males and females.I see no contradictions to me statements here-unless one believe there is no difference between males and females. He is the mescaline. I realize you cannot understand this but maybe others can John.The below says that man was created in the image of God ,"BUT" women was is the glory of man. Clearly a difference is shown.1Co 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.cd: As you didn't receive this the first time-I am resending it-God has a masculine nature.Jesus had a masculine nature and a masculine body.MasculineM`ASCULINE, a. [L. masculinus, from masculus, mas.]1. Having the qualities of a man; strong; robust; as a masculine body.2. Resembling man; coarse; opposed to delicate or soft; as masculine features.3. Bold; brave; as a masculine spirit or courage.4. In grammar,the masculine gender of words is that which expresses a male, or something analogous to it; or it is the gender appropriated to males, though not always expressing the male sex.-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" cd: Here is another Bibical spirit that is a male?1Sa 28:8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.1Sa 28:9 And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?1Sa 28:10 And Saul swore to her by the LORD, saying, As the LORD liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing.1Sa 28:11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.1Sa 28:12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spoke to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.1Sa 28:13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.1Sa 28:14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And
Re: [TruthTalk] Fem. God- Dave H. get bathing suit.
Why is sexism a bad thing, Lance? I know you have been brainwashed to understand that term to mean something horrible and unethical, but we would be foolish to ignore that men and women are different from one another. I appreciate you offering me an apology, but I was not offended by Dean's remarks. Even if I was offended, Dean is entitled to his opinion, and should not lose his office of Moderator for having an opinion that isn't politically correct. You are attempting to institute Thought Crime, here, Lance. I'm pretty sure George Orwell wrote "1984" as a warning, not as a How-to Book.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry Judy? How about sorry Christine, Mrs. David Miller, Mrs. everybody who might read this thoroughly sexist remark. How about David 'lifting' you as Moderator (?) immediately? This remark, IMO, goes far beyond the minor engagement between DH and miscellaneous others.As to the latter Dean, it is always wise to know when someone WON'T be 'proven wrong' on an issue. I perceive that this is one of those, Dean. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 08, 2006 11:49Subject: [TruthTalk] Fem. God- Dave H. get bathing suit. - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/8/2006 11:34:58 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Rightousness (jd 2 cd)Originality not being your strong suit Dean, you are to be commended on parroting Judy's perpetual jibe. As neither of you knows whereof you speak, we'll just smile in response. Of all things that I'd not anticipated from you, JT DM was 'buddying up' with the Mormons. You may just be out of your league as Moderator. You are out of your league theologically. Mayhap a call to DM would prove helpful prior entering the ring on this one again. You will need much more than Webster's dictionary, I'm afraid.\cd: :-) Hello DavH O' buddy how are you today-aren't you glad our God isn't feminine so the earth won't be flooded once a month(sorry Judy-butI'm getting visions of an angry female God with lighting bolts-scary)?So Lance why don't you prove me wrong instead of waiting to agreewith the disagreeables. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 08, 2006 11:14Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Rightousness (jd 2 cd) - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/8/2006 10:56:08 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Rightousness (jd 2 cd)FWIW Bill, I'd suggest that we leave Dean, DM, JT and perhaps even DH, to Amen one another on this issue.You are correct that they are flirting with a position remarkably close to the Mormons. One can 'hear' the level of certitude being expressed. cd: Well .Lance that could leave you time to work on you language-what is it called again? Dancing English? A language that changesmeaning when you want it to-which will go well with your Dancing bible and your Dancing gospel. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 08, 2006 10:10Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Rightousness (jd 2 cd) - Original Message - From: Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/7/2006 10:15:34 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Rightousness (jd 2 cd)cd: Is Jesus male or female John/Lance/Bill-If he is God as you say what is he? Jesus is a man, Dean, and he is God -- two natures in one person. Please stop confusing the two. You createGod in Adam's image, and Judy calls us earthly minded: what a joke! Have you considered how close you are getting to a doctrinewhich claims thatGod the Father came down and had physical-sexual intercoursewith Mary? You do claim he is male, don't you? That's like saying, since he has the equipment, why didn't he use it? This is ridiculous. "Male" is a physical/biological term. "Father" is a relational term, the same with "Son." You
Re: [TruthTalk] Tolerance Offense
Lance wrote: As to suppression of free speech..well..it'd appear that that's what takes place within your family unit..at least for the females.Excuse me, but as a female within my father's family unit, I can tell you that there is no suppression of free speech. My father is extremely tolerant, and his accepting attitude has always given me the freedom to express myself. I would advise list members to speak on subjects which they know. I know my father, and you are off the mark. -Christine Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 'feminine approach'?? 'emasculates society'?? One would, at the very least, have to grant you your gila monster-like tenacity when you latch onto a way of seeing, David. As to suppression of free speech..well..it'd appear that that's what takes place within your family unit..at least for the females. I actually believe that the particular hatred you express herein may stem from some disorder originating in your youth concerning your 'male identity'. - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk Sent: January 29, 2006 21:19Subject: [TruthTalk] Tolerance OffenseThere are two approaches to the problem of people being offended. One approach is to have speakers work hard at not ever offending anyone. I call this the feminine approach. It basically emasculates society and suppresses free speech.The other approach is to teach people to be tolerant and not to take offense when someone presents a strong argument. I think this is the better approach. Obviously people should not be so insensitive that they railroad over people, but our society as become way too feminized when signs in public places that promote righteousness and serving God offend them.David Miller. What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Debbie wrote: She is neither learning nor teaching here but is doubtless fruitful elsewhere.You do not speak for all, Debbie. And I take offense at your comments here. I learn very much from Judy's posts. I cannot speak for Judy, but I believe she is learning much from her pressence here--I know I do--as TT is a great forum to hear new ideas. Debbie wrote: She should not be participating in such a forum at all.I suspect that such a sentiment is not Judy's problem, but your own. The aim of communication and debate does not have to be agreement. TT is a place to air out ideas. Just because one member of TT isn't as responsive as you would like her to be does not make her ideas unvalid. Your statement was condescending and closed-minded.-Christine Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:- Original Message - From: Debbie Sawczak To: Lance Muir Sent: January 08, 2006 08:41 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy) You see? She sometimes does believe in the deity of Christ. She goes down a trail of disagreeing with somebody because of who it is or some shibboleth they have used, instead of thinking properly about what they are saying,and then finds, surprise surprise,she is contradicting her own belief. That is what makes it so maddening to try to"dialogue" (misnomer if ever there was one) with her: not so much her insultingness, but her constant sabotage of communication. It is a complete waste of time--and the thing is, it's not just one's own time, but hers also that is wasted, since I'm sure (as you've often said too) that when she's not writing on TT she's doing many truly worthwhile and admirable things. She should not be participating in such a forum at all. I think it would be more charitable just to leave her unanswered till she gets bored and signs off and goes about her proper God-ordained business. She is neither learning nor teaching here but is doubtless fruitful elsewhere.D I don't deny Christ is God any more than I deny the Holy Spirit is God or the Father is God JD Yahoo! Photos Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover Photo Books. You design it and well bind it!
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Hello Bill,Thank you for the invitation, but I am not posting regularly on TT because of my school work. I am enjoying this subject, though. Jesus' role in the Godhead is an important topic, and I am hungry to learn more. (JD: I really enjoyed the list of Biblical references you posted a little while ago, and I have saved them for future reference.) -Christine Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... I learn very much from Judy's posts. Good, then perhaps you could explain to us Judy's understanding of God (the makeup of theTrinity or "Godhead") andChrist (the nature of his divinity and humanity), because the rest of ushavebeen reading her for a long time and every time we think we understand something, she abruptlychanges her position -- orso it seems. I'm all ears, Bill - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 4:14 PMSubject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)Debbie wrote:She is neither learning nor teaching here but is doubtless fruitful elsewhere.You do not speak for all, Debbie. And I take offense at your comments here. I learn very much from Judy's posts. I cannot speak for Judy, but I believe she is learning much from her pressence here--I know I do--as TT is a great forum to hear new ideas. Debbie wrote:She should not be participating in such a forum at all.I suspect that such a sentiment is not Judy's problem, but your own. The aim of communication and debate does not have to be agreement. TT is a place to air out ideas. Just because one member of TT isn't as responsive as you would like her to be does not make her ideas unvalid. Your statement was condescending and closed-minded.-ChristineLance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Debbie Sawczak To: Lance Muir Sent: January 08, 2006 08:41 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)You see? She sometimes does believe in the deity of Christ. She goes down a trail of disagreeing with somebody because of who it is or some shibboleth they have used, instead of thinking properly about what they are saying,and then finds, surprise surprise,she is contradicting her own belief. That is what makes it so maddening to try to"dialogue" (misnomer if ever there was one) with her: not so much her insultingness, but her constant sabotage of communication. It is a complete waste of time--and the thing is, it's not just one's own time, but hers also that is wasted, since I'm sure (as you've often said too) that when she's not writing on TT she's doing many truly worthwhile and admirable things. She should not be participating in such a forum at all. I think it would be more charitable just to leave her unanswered till she gets bored and signs off and goes about her proper God-ordained business. She is neither learning nor teaching here but is doubtless fruitful elsewhere.D I don't deny Christ is God any more than I deny the Holy Spirit is God or the Father is God JDYahoo! Photos Showcase holiday pictures in hardcoverPhoto Books. You design it and well bind it!-- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is believed to be clean. Yahoo! Photos Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover Photo Books. You design it and well bind it!
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
Judy, you are a blessing to me. Today in church, the pastor taught from Mat. 7:7. And he said that the nature of the Kingdom of Heaven is to persevere, how the greek of "Knock and it shall be opened" is actually translated "Keep on knocking and it shall be opened." I admire your thick skin and your fighting spirit, Judy. I need to be more like you in that respect. After slander and anger have chased many away from TT, I am glad to lurk and read your posts. -ChristineJudy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Christine - What a blessing you are, a breath of fresh air The apple doesn't fall far from the tree On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 15:14:24 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Debbie wrote:She is neither learning nor teaching here but is doubtless fruitful elsewhere.You do not speak for all, Debbie. And I take offense at your comments here. I learn very much from Judy's posts. I cannot speak for Judy, but I believe she is learning much from her pressence here--I know I do--as TT is a great forum to hear new ideas. Debbie wrote:She should not be participating in such a forum at all.I suspect that such a sentiment is not Judy's problem, but your own. The aim of communication and debate does not have to be agreement. TT is a place to air out ideas. Just because one member of TT isn't as responsive as you would like her to be does not make her ideas unvalid. Your statement was condescending and closed-minded.-ChristineLance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Debbie Sawczak To: Lance Muir Sent: January 08, 2006 08:41 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)You see? She sometimes does believe in the deity of Christ. She goes down a trail of disagreeing with somebody because of who it is or some shibboleth they have used, instead of thinking properly about what they are saying,and then finds, surprise surprise,she is contradicting her own belief. That is what makes it so maddening to try to"dialogue" (misnomer if ever there was one) with her: not so much her insultingness, but her constant sabotage of communication. It is a complete waste of time--and the thing is, it's not just one's own time, but hers also that is wasted, since I'm sure (as you've often said too) that when she's not writing on TT she's doing many truly worthwhile and admirable things. She should not be participating in such a forum at all. I think it would be more charitable just to leave her unanswered till she gets bored and signs off and goes about her proper God-ordained business. She is neither learning nor teaching here but is doubtless fruitful elsewhere.D I don't deny Christ is God any more than I deny the Holy Spirit is God or the Father is God JDYahoo! Photos Showcase holiday pictures in hardcoverPhoto Books. You design it and well bind it! Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-mas
Do you speak/believe in the gift of tongues, Lance?I've taken Calculus and Financial Accounting. Next up is Islam. Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do, Christine.Which courses are you being 'examined' on?PS:I've met three 'prophets' in the last couple of years. Two of them are socially dysfunctional but, highly gifted. The other was in the store a week or two back and a group of us chatted for a couple of hours. - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 10, 2005 20:23Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-masLance, I didn't know you believed in the gifts of the Spirit.(Whew. Two final exams down, one to go.)Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I actually do, Judy. A prophet visited our store one week ago. God spoke through him and, said exactly that. You may be surprised to know just how dependent your country is on Canada. It is NOT JUST the other way 'round. Most yanks are sufficiently insular to know nothing of the rest of the world (including their neighbour)- Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 10, 2005 14:41Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-masIf you really believe what you write here Lance then you need to be weeping between the porch and thealtar for us down here. Do you really think that if the US goes down - Canada will be left standing?? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirNo you wouldn't, Judy. You are in deep doodoo without anyone, including Canadians, keeping 'tabs', as you put it.From: Judy Taylor Sure glad you are keeping up with our economy Lance. Don't know what we would do if we didn't have the Canadians keeping tabs on us. We'd reallybe in trouble then ...On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 08:40:32 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Upset? No! Why? USA is a secular republic NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION! More pagans means more people with whom to share/live the gospel. What then ought one to be taking note of? How 'bout China/India. They, Terry, are the ones suppling the mdse for the aforementioned stores. No more 'made in the USA! (3 million manufacturing jobs lost since 2003 and many, many more to come). - Original Message - From: "Terry Clifton" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 10, 2005 08:20 Subject: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-mas We have been watching the news lately, plus getting some stuff by e-mail, and it seems that the world we once knew is no longer to be found. It is bad enough when all the big merchants, such as Wal Mart, Sears, Target and home depot stop advertising Christmas sales and start advertising "Holiday sales". When you walk in the stores you are greeted by salespeople with "Happy Holidays" or "Seasons greetings". Target stores went so far as to run the Salvation army off it's property. No buckets or bell ringers there anymore. This sounds like where the preachers and banners proclaiming Christ should be, but then you must remember that the reason these stores are there is not to proclaim Christ, but to make money. If they mentioned Christ mas, it would only be lip service. Besides that, we need to get the beam out of our own eye before we try to remove the speck from their's. It seems that since Christmas falls on Sunday this year, that many churches will not have services "So that people can spend time with their families". That, to me, is s stupid. Why not take the family to church? What am I missing here? The words of Jesus keep running through my mind. "If you do not love me more t
RE: [TruthTalk] : Doug Gresham Comments on Narnia
Dead wrote: cd: Just walk up to your local Street Preacher and say :"Hey bro-can I help?"LOL and AMEN Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:- Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/11/2005 10:18:56 AM Subject: [TruthTalk] : Doug Gresham Comments on NarniaInteresting comments from CSL's stepson - contradicting the voice of scripture which says loving the brethren is how we know we are "in Him" and His Spirit is in us. The professing church may not be as it should at any given time but where else does one go to findbrethren? cd: Just walk up to your local Street Preacher and say :"Hey bro-can I help?"Did anyone see "The Hour of Power" this morning? Doug Gresham was on. He made one interesting comment (others, too) -"the closer Jack got to the Lord, the farther he got away from the church." Was "Jack" C.S.'s nickname? soks For those not on the SpareOom list, here is what Doug Gresham (Lewis's stepson) had to say about the movie's critics Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 16:30:30 + From: douglas gresham Subject: Re: Digest Number 1946 Dear All, Poking my nose around the door very briefly before resuming my ride on the tornado that my life has become of late, to make a couple of observations about our movie. First, the attacks from the sneering anti-Christian elements of the press are to be expected and indeed welcomed. Expected because there are always those who approach such matters blinded by their own prejudices, those who feel that to tear down something great and glorious makes them bigger, and those whom fame has eluded leaving them only notoriety to pursue. Welcomed for they prove that we have stayed close enough to Jack's original book to honour his work and thus provide grist to the mills of the bigoted, the prejudiced and the envious. Second, whatever those who have never walked the razor's edge may say, we know we have made a spectacularly beautiful and very good movie. We know that what we have produced honours Jack's work and delights both children and adults who are honest in their approach to it. No film is ever perfect, so don't expect perfection. This one though, is very good. So don't worry about what is written by snide hacks who have never made a movie nor written a halfway decent book in their lives, just go and see it and form your own opinion of our work. I am hurtling off again soon, but will check in occasionally to see what your opinions are, for they are more valuable to me than most. Blessings all (in haste)Doug (G). Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healinghttp://us.click.yahoo.com/B6T8nB/Vp3LAA/EcBKAA/GuTslB/TM~- Yahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ill-legalism/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ An Optimist: "My tire is only flat on the bottom." Soks Yahoo! ShoppingFind Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "ill-legalism" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-mas
No, I have not read Bernard Lewis.Yes, my teacher calls herself a practicing Muslim, but she is a progressive Muslim, which are typically non-Arabic Muslims that don't take the Koran seriously and are vry Left in their political leanings. She is a crusading feminist. She converted to Islam from Christianity. She is African-American and born in the US. From our discussions in class, she has almost no knowledge of traditional Islam. She could answer almost no questions. Fortunately, there were several Muslims in the class that could answer any inqueries. The issue of terrorism was only addressed on the last day of class, and it was not pretty. She is racist against the Jews, believes Israel is to be blamed for our troubles, and believes we are only in Iraq for the oil. She made it very clear that the terrorists do not hate America for irrational reasons, they hate America because we are Evil. Israel is evil. Our military strength is evil. Not that any culture is any better than another culture, of course. If we changed our foreign policies terrorism threats would cease. Because the terrorists are rational. Not irrational. Lance wrote: Do you see the similarities between a 'radical/fundamentalist' Muslim and a 'radical/fundamentalist' anything else?I see a difference between lukewarm religion and radical religion, yes. I call myself a radical Christian, full of passion for Jesus Christ. I believe that there are lukewarm Muslims just like there are lukewarm Christians, who practice their religion shrugingly, not too interested in truth or righteousness.But the catch is this: darkness is darkness. If you follow Allah, you are fighting for an untruth. And passion without holiness or light is a murderous force. Any passion that is not focused on the Light of the World will end in murder. Man is full of evil things, and the Koran does not provide the answer to all of the evil in Man. That is the dangerousness of the Koran.People get passionate about its traditions, but their passion is channeled into hate and selfishness. That is the fruit of the Koran.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No/yesHave you read Bernard Lewis on Islam? Was your teacher a Muslim? Was the issue of terrorism addressed? Do you see the similarities between a 'radical/fundamentalist' Muslim and a 'radical/fundamentalist' anything else? Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 11, 2005 13:45Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-masDo you speak/believe in the gift of tongues, Lance?I've taken Calculus and Financial Accounting. Next up is Islam. Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I do, Christine.Which courses are you being 'examined' on?PS:I've met three 'prophets' in the last couple of years. Two of them are socially dysfunctional but, highly gifted. The other was in the store a week or two back and a group of us chatted for a couple of hours. - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 10, 2005 20:23Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-masLance, I didn't know you believed in the gifts of the Spirit.(Whew. Two final exams down, one to go.)Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I actually do, Judy. A prophet visited our store one week ago. God spoke through him and, said exactly that. You may be surprised to know just how dependent your country is on Canada. It is NOT JUST the other way 'round. Most yanks are sufficiently insular to know nothing of the rest of the world (including their neighbour)- Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 10, 2005 14:41Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-masIf you really believe what you write here Lance then you need to be weeping between the porch and thealtar for us down here. Do you really think that if the US goes down - Canada will be left standing?? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirNo you wouldn't, Judy. You are in deep doodoo without anyone, including Canadians, keeping
Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-mas
Lance wrote: their 'faith _expression_' borders on hatred.Then you have no understanding of Christianity. Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 'People get passionate about..traditions' Even on TT I noticed. Kevin, Dean and occasionally your Dad strike me as persons who are Christian counterparts to radicals that'd be found in Islam, Sikhismmilitant Zionism where their 'faith _expression_' borders on hatred. (IMO obviously). - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 11, 2005 14:16Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-masNo, I have not read Bernard Lewis.Yes, my teacher calls herself a practicing Muslim, but she is a progressive Muslim, which are typically non-Arabic Muslims that don't take the Koran seriously and are vry Left in their political leanings. She is a crusading feminist. She converted to Islam from Christianity. She is African-American and born in the US. From our discussions in class, she has almost no knowledge of traditional Islam. She could answer almost no questions. Fortunately, there were several Muslims in the class that could answer any inqueries. The issue of terrorism was only addressed on the last day of class, and it was not pretty. She is racist against the Jews, believes Israel is to be blamed for our troubles, and believes we are only in Iraq for the oil. She made it very clear that the terrorists do not hate America for irrational reasons, they hate America because we are Evil. Israel is evil. Our military strength is evil. Not that any culture is any better than another culture, of course. If we changed our foreign policies terrorism threats would cease. Because the terrorists are rational. Not irrational. Lance wrote:Do you see the similarities between a 'radical/fundamentalist' Muslim and a 'radical/fundamentalist' anything else?I see a difference between lukewarm religion and radical religion, yes. I call myself a radical Christian, full of passion for Jesus Christ. I believe that there are lukewarm Muslims just like there are lukewarm Christians, who practice their religion shrugingly, not too interested in truth or righteousness.But the catch is this: darkness is darkness. If you follow Allah, you are fighting for an untruth. And passion without holiness or light is a murderous force. Any passion that is not focused on the Light of the World will end in murder. Man is full of evil things, and the Koran does not provide the answer to all of the evil in Man. That is the dangerousness of the Koran.People get passionate about its traditions, but their passion is channeled into hate and selfishness. That is the fruit of the Koran.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:No/yesHave you read Bernard Lewis on Islam? Was your teacher a Muslim? Was the issue of terrorism addressed? Do you see the similarities between a 'radical/fundamentalist' Muslim and a 'radical/fundamentalist' anything else? Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 11, 2005 13:45Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-masDo you speak/believe in the gift of tongues, Lance?I've taken Calculus and Financial Accounting. Next up is Islam. Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do, Christine.Which courses are you being 'examined' on?PS:I've met three 'prophets' in the last couple of years. Two of them are socially dysfunctional but, highly gifted. The other was in the store a week or two back and a group of us chatted for a couple of hours. - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 10, 2005 20:23Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-masLance, I didn't know you believed in the gifts of the Spirit.(Whew. Two final exams down, one to go.)Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I actually do, Judy. A prophet visited our store one week ago. God spoke through him and, said exactly that. You may be surprised to know just how dependent your country is on Canada. It is NOT JUST the other way 'round. Most yanks are sufficiently insular to know nothing of the rest of the world (including their neighbour
Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-mas
I think I'm starting to understand what you mean by "drive by," and you're right. Being a full-time student and having a job leaves me with too little time to make my stay on TT worthwhile. I'm signing off indefinately. Next semester will be even worse. Calculus 2, Statistics, Finance, oh my.JD wrote: get the point ...No. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Another successful drive by . Thanks Christine for your judgment on this matter. I shall avoid Lance in the future , and dean for differing reasons, and you, for ditto, andDMfor still other reasons, and Judy for you know what, and Linda for who knows what and and and --get the point jd-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 19:27:52 -0800 (PST)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-masBINGO!Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lance wrote:their 'faith _expression_' borders on hatred.Then you have no understanding of Christianity. Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 'People get passionate about..traditions' Even on TT I noticed. Kevin, Dean and occasionally your Dad strike me as persons who are Christian counterparts to radicals that'd be found in Islam, Sikhism militant Zionism where their 'faith _expression_' borders on hatred. (IMO obviously).- Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 11, 2005 14:16 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-masNo, I have not read Bernard Lewis.Yes, my teacher calls herself a practicing Muslim, but she is a progressive Muslim, which are typically non-Arabic Muslims that don't take the Koran seriously and are vry Left in their political leanings. She is a crusading feminist. She converted to Islam from Christianity. She is African-American and born in the US. From our discussions in class, she has almost no knowledge of traditional Islam. She could answer almost no questions. Fortunately, there were several Muslims in the class that could answer any inqueries. The issue of terrorism was only addressed on the last day of class, and it was not pretty. She is racist against the Jews, believes Israel is to be blamed for our troubles, and believes we are only in Iraq for the oil. She made it very clear that the terrorists do not hate America for irrational reasons, they hate America because we are Evil. Israel is evil. Our military strength is evil. Not that any culture is any better than another culture, of course. If we changed our foreign policies terrorism threats would cease. Because the terrorists are rational. Not irrational. Lance wrote:Do you see the similarities between a 'radical/fundamentalist' Muslim and a 'radical/fundamentalist' anything else?I see a difference between lukewarm religion and radical religion, yes. I call myself a radical Christian, full of passion for Jesus Christ. I believe that there are lukewarm Muslims just like there are lukewarm Christians, who practice their religion shrugingly, not too interested in truth or righteousness.But the catch is this: darkness is darkness. If you follow Allah, you are fighting for an untruth. And passion without holiness or light is a murderous force. Any passion that is not focused on the Light of the World will end in murder. Man is full of evil things, and the Koran does not provide the answer to all of the evil in Man. That is the dangerousness of the Koran.People get passionate about its tradition s, but their passion is channeled into hate and selfishness. That is the fruit of the Koran.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No/yesHave you read Bernard Lewis on Islam? Was your teacher a Muslim? Was the issue of terrorism addressed? Do you see the similarities between a 'radical/fundamentalist' Muslim and a 'radical/fundamentalist' anything else? Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 11, 2005 13:45 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-masDo you speak/believe in the gift of tongues, Lance?I've taken Calculus and Financial Accounting. Next up is Islam. Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do, Christine.Which courses are you being 'examined' on?PS:I've met three 'prophets' in the last couple of years. Two of them are socially dysfunctional but, highly gifted. The other was in the store a week or two back and a group of us chatted for a couple of hours. - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 10, 2005 20:23 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-masLance, I didn't know you believed in the gifts of the Spirit.(Whew. Two final exams down, one to go.)Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I actually do, Judy. A prophet visited our
RE: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-mas
haha That's OK. I think Dean referencing to the University of Miami in his posts. At least you both got the state correct.ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh, sorry!From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 3:59 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-masUh, I think that's UF. FSU is in Tallahassee.ShieldsFamily wrote: Those are some tough tongues youre taking at FSU, Christine! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Christine Miller Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 12:45 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-masDo you speak/believe in the gift of tongues, Lance?I've taken Calculus and Financial Accounting. Next up is Islam. Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I do, Christine.Which courses are you being 'examined' on?PS:I've met three 'prophets' in the last couple of years. Two of them are socially dysfunctional but, highly gifted. The other was in the store a week or two back and a group of us chatted for a couple of hours. - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 10, 2005 20:23Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-masLance, I didn't know you believed in the gifts of the Spirit.(Whew. Two final exams down, one to go.)Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I actually do, Judy. A prophet visited our store one week ago. God spoke through him and, said exactly that. You may be surprised to know just how dependent your country is on Canada. It is NOT JUST the other way 'round. Most yanks are sufficiently insular to know nothing of the rest of the world (including their neighbour)- Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 10, 2005 14:41Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-masIf you really believe what you write here Lance then you need to be weeping between the porch and thealtar for us down here. Do you really think that if the US goes down - Canada will be left standing??From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Lance Muir No you wouldn't, Judy. You are in deep doodoo without anyone, including Canadians, keeping 'tabs', as you put it.From: Judy Taylor Sure glad you are keeping up with our economy Lance. Don't know what we would do if we didn't have the Canadians keeping tabs on us. We'd really be in trouble then ...On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 08:40:32 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Upset? No! Why? USA is a secular republic NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION!Morepagans means more people with whom to share/live the gospel. What then ought one to be taking note of? How 'bout China/India.They,Terry, are the ones suppling the mdse for the aforementioned stores.No more'made in the USA! (3 million manufacturing jobs lost since 2003 andmany,many more to come). - Original Message -From: "Terry Clifton" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 10, 2005 08:20 Subject: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-mas We have been watching the news lately, plus getting some stuff bye-mail, and it seems that the world we once knew is no longer to be found.It is bad enough when all the big merchants, such as Wal Mart, Sears,Target and home depot stop advertising Christmas sales and start advertising"Holiday sales". When you walk in the stores you are greeted bysalespeople with "Happy Holidays" or "Seasons greetings". Target stores went sofar as to run the Salvation army off it's property. No buckets or bellringers there anymore.This sounds like where the preachers and banners proclaimingChrist should be, but then you must remember that the reason these stores arethere is not to proclaim Christ, but to make money. If they mentionedChrist mas, it would only be lip service. Besides that, we need to get the beam out of our own eye before wetry to remove the speck from their's. It seems that since Christmasfalls on Sunday this year, that many churches will not h
[TruthTalk] Signing off...
I am signing off. I have gotten sucked into the world of TT, and I think it would be beneficial to my GPA to bid adeiu. Thanks for all the discussions. I have learned a great deal. May the Lord bless you and keep you all. It would be cool to meet you all in real life some day. But maybe not all in the same room. I wonder how that would turn out... :-) -Christine Miller Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-mas
Lance, I didn't know you believed in the gifts of the Spirit.(Whew. Two final exams down, one to go.)Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I actually do, Judy. A prophet visited our store one week ago. God spoke through him and, said exactly that. You may be surprised to know just how dependent your country is on Canada. It is NOT JUST the other way 'round. Most yanks are sufficiently insular to know nothing of the rest of the world (including their neighbour)- Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 10, 2005 14:41Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-masIf you really believe what you write here Lance then you need to be weeping between the porch and thealtar for us down here. Do you really think that if the US goes down - Canada will be left standing?? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirNo you wouldn't, Judy. You are in deep doodoo without anyone, including Canadians, keeping 'tabs', as you put it.From: Judy Taylor Sure glad you are keeping up with our economy Lance. Don't know what wewould do if we didn't have the Canadians keeping tabs on us. We'd reallybe in trouble then ...On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 08:40:32 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Upset? No! Why? USA is a secular republic NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION! More pagans means more people with whom to share/live the gospel. What then ought one to be taking note of? How 'bout China/India. They, Terry, are the ones suppling the mdse for the aforementioned stores. No more 'made in the USA! (3 million manufacturing jobs lost since 2003 and many, many more to come). - Original Message - From: "Terry Clifton" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 10, 2005 08:20 Subject: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-mas We have been watching the news lately, plus getting some stuff by e-mail, and it seems that the world we once knew is no longer to be found. It is bad enough when all the big merchants, such as Wal Mart, Sears, Target and home depot stop advertising Christmas sales and start advertising "Holiday sales". When you walk in the stores you are greeted by salespeople with "Happy Holidays" or "Seasons greetings". Target stores went so far as to run the Salvation army off it's property. No buckets or bell ringers there anymore. This sounds like where the preachers and banners proclaiming Christ should be, but then you must remember that the reason these stores are there is not to proclaim Christ, but to make money. If they mentioned Christ mas, it would only be lip service. Besides that, we need to get the beam out of our own eye before we try to remove the speck from their's. It seems that since Christmas falls on Sunday this year, that many churches will not have services "So that people can spend time with their families". That, to me, is s stupid. Why not take the family to church? What am I missing here? The words of Jesus keep running through my mind. "If you do not love me more than mother or father, sister or brother (Family), you cannot be Mine. Do the rest of you get worked up or nauseous over this? Is theresomething here I don't see? Am I too critical? Your thoughts? Terry -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] There he goes again
JD wrote: You have allies on this forum but no real brethren I consider Kevin a dear brother and a man of God. You do not speak for me on this, JD. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your whole life's "ministry" is pretty much about putting people down. You have allies on this forum but no real brethren (except - possibly, Dean). I suspect that Lance "likes him" because he makes sense. The "Cathoilic" thingy is important only to you -- not to Lance.You have not spoken honestly about Barth. I suspect this is a habit of yours -- speaking dishonestly of other's beliefs.C.S.L included. jd-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan openairmission@yahoo.comTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 18:02:00 -0800 (PST)Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Ebert Roeper give the 'Lion, the witch and the wardrobe' two thumbs up Lance likes him because he is so Catholic The mormons love him because he believed as they do in BECOMING a 'god'"Some people seem to think that I began by asking myself how I could say something about Christianity to children; then fixed on the fairy tale as an instrument; then collected information about child-psychology and decided what age group I'd write for; then drew up a list of basic Christian truths and hammered out 'allegories' to embody them. This is all pure moonshine. I couldn't write in that way at all. Everything began with images; a faun carrying an umbrella, a queen on a sledge, a magnificent lion. At first there wasn't even anything Christian about them; that element pushed itself in of its own accord" (Of Other Worlds, p. 36).http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/lewis/general.htm Lewis termed himself "very Catholic" -- his prayers for the dead, belief in purgatory, and rejection of the literal resurrection of the body are serious deviations from Biblical Christianity (C.S. Lewis: A Biography, p. 234); he even went to a priest for regular confession (p. 198), and received the sacrament of extreme unction on 7/16/63 (p. 301). His contention that some pagans may "belong to Christ without knowing it" is a destructive heresy (Mere Christianity, pp. 176-177), as was his statement that "Christ fulfils both Paganism and Judaism ..." (Reflections on the Psalms, p. 129). Lewis believed that we're to become "gods," an apparent affirmation of theistic evolution. He also believed the Book of Job is "unhistorical" (Reflections on the Psalms, pp. 110), and that the Bible contained "error" (pp. 110, 112) and is not divinely inspired (The Inklings, p. 175). Lewis used profanities, told bawdy stories, and frequently got drunk with his students (5/19/90, World magazine). Christians need to read more critically The Abolition of Man, The Problem of Pain, Miracles, The Great Divorce, and God in the Dock. For example, Lewis never believed in a literal hell, but instead believed hell is a state of mind one chooses to possess and become -- he wrote, "... every shutting-up of the creature within the dungeon of its own mind is, in the end, Hell" (The Great Divorce, p. 65)....Q: Speaking just as a layman, it seems to me that the "theology" you get out of THE CHRONICLES OF NARNIA, THE GREAT DIVORCE, THE SCREWTAPE LETTERS is Orthodox. I was recently rereading THE SCREWTAPE LETTERS and Lewis has a section where Screwtape (the lead demon writing to the little demon, Wormwood) says something like, "In misleading your Protestant convert, the best thing to do is get him to pray extemporaneously; make sure that above all he does not pray the liturgical prayers his mother taught him; let him think that everything he says is original." When I read C.S. Lewis I hear an Orthodox voice. I hear a sacramentalist and liturgical traditionalist writing. How do evangelical, let alone fundamentalist, Protestants read C.S. Lewis and think that they are reading someone who is on "their side?" Howard: Maybe I'm being a little bit naughty, but the answer is, probably the same way they read the Bible! You and I would say the Apostolic Church is there, in its seed, in the Bible, but apparently it's possible to read the Bible as a Protestant for sixty or seventy or eighty years and never see it! By the same token, Lewis' evangelical American "clientele" simply don't get it. When C.S. Lewis speaks of the blessed sacrament, they don't hear it. When Lewis speaks of the prayers of the Church, they don't hear it. When Lewis speaks of auricular confession, which he practiced, they don't hear it. I think when Lewis smokes a cigarette or drinks his whiskey, they don't see it, either; not that that's on the same level as his ecclesiology! (Laughter) C.S. Lewis would have been very, very ill at ease with his eager North American free church clientele. Very, very ill at ease and out of his métier.From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 7:26 AMTo:
[TruthTalk] Putting people down
Kevin's criticisms are godly. You may disagree with them, I may choose to make a more moderate approach to them, but the truth is, we must learn to be wary to falsehoods and lies. I am starting to see that more and more Christians do not take things as seriously as they should. The feminism movement is an example of this. It may not have seemed to obvious to the church in the 1960s what this movement would produce, and I'm sure it didn't seem like such a powerful movement at first, so they chose not to take a stand. But so much of society's moral decay has stemmed from that movement: immodesty, the erroding of the family unit, the confusion of gender roles, the rise of moral relativism and humanism, the rise of sexual promescuity, etc.Kevin's "putting people down" as you say is not act of bitterness or pride, but out of passion for the Truth. This passionate support/disdain of Kevin's is so crucial, especially in the last days. We must also be passionate in our support or rejection of the different issues.Mat. 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your whole life's "ministry" is pretty much about putting people down. You have allies on this forum but no real brethren (except - possibly, Dean). I suspect that Lance "likes him" because he makes sense. The "Cathoilic" thingy is important only to you -- not to Lance.You have not spoken honestly about Barth. I suspect this is a habit of yours -- speaking dishonestly of other's beliefs.C.S.L included. jd-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan openairmission@yahoo.comTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 18:02:00 -0800 (PST)Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Ebert Roeper give the 'Lion, the witch and the wardrobe' two thumbs up Lance likes him because he is so Catholic The mormons love him because he believed as they do in BECOMING a 'god'"Some people seem to think that I began by asking myself how I could say something about Christianity to children; then fixed on the fairy tale as an instrument; then collected information about child-psychology and decided what age group I'd write for; then drew up a list of basic Christian truths and hammered out 'allegories' to embody them. This is all pure moonshine. I couldn't write in that way at all. Everything began with images; a faun carrying an umbrella, a queen on a sledge, a magnificent lion. At first there wasn't even anything Christian about them; that element pushed itself in of its own accord" (Of Other Worlds, p. 36).http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/lewis/general.htm Lewis termed himself "very Catholic" -- his prayers for the dead, belief in purgatory, and rejection of the literal resurrection of the body are serious deviations from Biblical Christianity (C.S. Lewis: A Biography, p. 234); he even went to a priest for regular confession (p. 198), and received the sacrament of extreme unction on 7/16/63 (p. 301). His contention that some pagans may "belong to Christ without knowing it" is a destructive heresy (Mere Christianity, pp. 176-177), as was his statement that "Christ fulfils both Paganism and Judaism ..." (Reflections on the Psalms, p. 129). Lewis believed that we're to become "gods," an apparent affirmation of theistic evolution. He also believed the Book of Job is "unhistorical" (Reflections on the Psalms, pp. 110), and that the Bible contained "error" (pp. 110, 112) and is not divinely inspired (The Inklings, p. 175). Lewis used profanities, told bawdy stories, and frequently got drunk with his students (5/19/90, World magazine). Christians need to read more critically The Abolition of Man, The Problem of Pain, Miracles, The Great Divorce, and God in the Dock. For example, Lewis never believed in a literal hell, but instead believed hell is a state of mind one chooses to possess and become -- he wrote, "... every shutting-up of the creature within the dungeon of its own mind is, in the end, Hell" (The Great Divorce, p. 65)....Q: Speaking just as a layman, it seems to me that the "theology" you get out of THE CHRONICLES OF NARNIA, THE GREAT DIVORCE, THE SCREWTAPE LETTERS is Orthodox. I was recently rereading THE SCREWTAPE LETTERS and Lewis has a section where Screwtape (the lead demon writing to the little demon, Wormwood) says something like, "In misleading your Protestant convert, the best thing to do is get him to pray extemporaneously; make sure that above all he does not pray the liturgical prayers his mother taught him; let him think that everything he says is original." When I read C.S. Lewis I hear an Orthodox voice. I hear a sacramentalist and liturgical traditionalist writing. How do evangelical, let alone fundamentalist, Protestants read C.S. Lewis and think that they are reading someone who is on "their side?" Howard: Maybe I'm being a little
Re: [TruthTalk] There he goes again
JD wrote: It is amazing that when your side does the very same thing, it is righteous judgment and when the other side does it is a disgrace. On the contrary! I applaud anyone that seeks the truth and takes a passionate stand. Even if that someone disagrees with me, I applaud their violent approval/disapproal, whichever that may be.That is only my point, JD, that Kevin's zeal is to be applauded. Because the violent will take the Kingdom by force, we must not be passive about the issues. I respect and admire many students who openly oppose my stance on the LGBT Affairs department at UF. We must be passionate in our persuit of the truth.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Nor do you speak for my friends, Christine. Drive-by postings have nolasting influence. It is amazing that when your side does the very same thing, it is righteous judgment and when the other side does it is a disgrace. Ridiculous and hypocritical. Linda praises CSL, deegan puts him down as evil, I criticize deegan and Linda gets mad at me !! lol.jd-Original Message-From: Christine Miller verilysaid@yahoo.comTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 05:26:21 -0800 (PST)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] There he goes againJD wrote:You have allies on this forum but no real brethren I consider Kevin a dear brother and a man of God. You do not speak for me on this, JD. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your whole life's "ministry" is pretty much about putting people down. You have allies on this forum but no real brethren (except - possibly, Dean). I suspect that Lance "likes him" because he makes sense. The "Cathoilic" thingy is important only to you -- not to Lance.You have not spoken honestly about Barth. I suspect this is a habit of yours -- speaking dishonestly of other's beliefs.C.S.L included. jd-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan openairmission@yahoo.comTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 18:02:00 -0800 (PST)Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Ebert Roeper give the 'Lion, the witch and the wardrobe' two thumbs up Lance likes him because he is so Catholic The mormons love him because he believed as they do in BECOMING a 'god'"Some people seem to think that I began by asking myself how I could say something about Christianity to children; then fixed on the fairy tale as an instrument; then collected information about child-psychology and decided what age group I'd write for; then drew up a list of basic Christian truths and hammered out 'allegories' to embody them. This is all pure moonshine. I couldn't write in that way at all. Everything began with images; a faun carrying an umbrella, a queen on a sledge, a magnificent lion. At first there wasn't even anything Christian about them; that element pushed itself in of its own accord" (Of Other Worlds, p. 36).http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/lewis/general.htm Lewis termed himself "very Catholic" -- his prayers for the dead, belief in purgatory, and rejection of the literal resurrection of the body are serious deviations from Biblical Christianity (C.S. Lewis: A Biography, p. 234); he even went to a priest for regular confession (p. 198), and received the sacrament of extreme unction on 7/16/63 (p. 301). His contention that some pagans may "belong to Christ without knowing it" is a destructive heresy (Mere Christianity, pp. 176-177), as was his statement that "Christ fulfils both Paganism and Judaism ..." (Reflections on the Psalms, p. 129). Lewis believed that we're to become "gods," an apparent affirmation of theistic evolution. He also believed the Book of Job is "unhistorical" (Reflections on the Psalms, pp. 110), and that the Bible contained "error" (pp. 110, 112) and is not divinely inspired (The Inklings, p. 175). Lewis used profanities, told bawdy stories, and frequently got drunk with his students (5/19/90, World magazine). Christians need to read more critically The Abolition of Man, The Problem of Pain, Miracles, The Great Divorce, and God in the Dock. For example, Lewis never believed in a literal hell, but instead believed hell is a state of mind one chooses to possess and become -- he wrote, "... every shutting-up of the creature within the dungeon of its own mind is, in the end, Hell" (The Great Divorce, p. 65)....Q: Speaking just as a layman, it seems to me that the "theology" you get out of THE CHRONICLES OF NARNIA, THE GREAT DIVORCE, THE SCREWTAPE LETTERS is Orthodox. I was recently rereading THE SCREWTAPE LETTERS and Lewis has a section where Screwtape (the lead demon writing to the little demon, Wormwood) says something like, "In misleading your Protestant convert, the best thing to do is get him to pray extemporaneously; make sure that above all he does not pray the liturgical prayers his mother taught him; l
Re: [TruthTalk] Putting people down
Should I be ashamed of my vigor? Is not boldness an _expression_ of faith? In this case I do not repent of my youth. Someone somewhere said we are to be converted to children to enter the Kingdom, and I supose I have a leg-up on that one in this case.I agree with you that a critical spirit is not always enjoyable. My father has a blunt honesty with me that took some getting used to (he once likened a 6th grade orchestra concert to the cries of a flock of seagulls). But while I agree with your sentiments, there is merit to Kevin's violent opinions. It is because of people like Kevin that the Kingdom of Heaven has not suffered more violence. He is an example to us all.Young or not, am I not speaking the truth?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Nonsense - but as a 20 something, I understand you point of view. Putting poeple down is the subject matter of perhaps 95% of deegan's postings. Go refigure. jd-Original Message-From: Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 05:53:51 -0800 (PST)Subject: [TruthTalk] Putting people downKevin's criticisms are godly. You may disagree with them, I may choose to make a more moderate approach to them, but the truth is, we must learn to be wary to falsehoods and lies. I am starting to see that more and more Christians do not take things as seriously as they should. The feminism movement is an example of this. It may not have seemed to obvious to the church in the 1960s what this movement would produce, and I'm sure it didn't seem like such a powerful movement at first, so they chose not to take a stand. But so much of society's moral decay has stemmed from that movement: immodesty, the erroding of the family unit, the confusion of gender roles, the rise of moral relativism and humanism, the rise of sexual promescuity, etc.Kevin's "putting people down" as you say is not act of bitterness or pride, but out of passion for the Truth. This passionate support/disdain of Kevin's is so crucial, especially in the last days. We must also be passionate in our support or rejection of the different issues.Mat. 11:12And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your whole life's "ministry" is pretty much about putting people down. You have allies on this forum but no real brethren (except - possibly, Dean). I suspect that Lance "likes him" because he makes sense. The "Cathoilic" thingy is important only to you -- not to Lance.You have not spoken honestly about Barth. I suspect this is a habit of yours -- speaking dishonestly of other's beliefs.C.S.L included. jd-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan openairmission@yahoo.comTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 18:02:00 -0800 (PST)Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Ebert Roeper give the 'Lion, the witch and the wardrobe' two thumbs up Lance likes him because he is so Catholic The mormons love him because he believed as they do in BECOMING a 'god'"Some people seem to think that I began by asking myself how I could say something about Christianity to children; then fixed on the fairy tale as an instrument; then collected information about child-psychology and decided what age group I'd write for; then drew up a list of basic Christian truths and hammered out 'allegories' to embody them. This is all pure moonshine. I couldn't write in that way at all. Everything began with images; a faun carrying an umbrella, a queen on a sledge, a magnificent lion. At first there wasn't even anything Christian about them; that element pushed itself in of its own accord" (Of Other Worlds, p. 36).http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/lewis/general.htm Lewis termed himself "very Catholic" -- his prayers for the dead, belief in purgatory, and rejection of the literal resurrection of the body are serious deviations from Biblical Christianity (C.S. Lewis: A Biography, p. 234); he even went to a priest for regular confession (p. 198), and received the sacrament of extreme unction on 7/16/63 (p. 301). His contention that some pagans may "belong to Christ without knowing it" is a destructive heresy (Mere Christianity, pp. 176-177), as was his statement that "Christ fulfils both Paganism and Judaism ..." (Reflections on the Psalms, p. 129). Lewis believed that we're to become "gods," an apparent affirmation of theistic evolution. He also believed the Book of Job is "unhistorical" (Reflections on the Psalms, pp. 110), and that the Bible contained "error" (pp. 110, 112) and is not divinely inspired (The Inklings, p. 175). Lewis used profanities, told bawdy stories, and frequently got drunk with his students (5/19/90, World magazine). Christians need to read more critically The Abolition of M
Re: [TruthTalk] Putting people down
JD, I feel put down by you quite a bit. Not only do you pooh-pooh my thoughts, but you turn the issue into a personal analysis time and time again. No ones posts make me feel worse than yours.I would not have said anything but... you asked. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:ALL of my posts are designed to help others -- so my percentage would be, ahh, well, zero!! Would that be your understanding as well?jd-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan openairmission@yahoo.comTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 11:04:17 -0800 (PST)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Putting people downMaybe you have a Guilty Conscience?And for a even more interesting note In your eyes what is your Percentage?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Nonsense - but as a 20 something, I understand you point of view. Putting poeple down is the subject matter of perhaps 95% of deegan's postings. Go refigure. jd-Original Message-From: Christine Miller verilysaid@yahoo.comTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 05:53:51 -0800 (PST)Subject: [TruthTalk] Putting people downKevin's criticisms are godly. You may disagree with them, I may choose to make a more moderate approach to them, but the truth is, we must learn to be wary to falsehoods and lies. I am starting to see that more and more Christians do not take things as seriously as they should. The feminism movement is an example of this. It may not have seemed to obvious to the church in the 1960s what this movement would produce, and I'm sure it didn't seem like such a powerful movement at first, so they chose not to take a stand. But so much of society's moral decay has stemmed from that movement: immodesty, the erroding of the family unit, the confusion of gender roles, the rise of moral relativism and humanism, the rise of sexual promescuity, etc.Kevin's "putting people down" as you say is not act of bitterness or pride, but out of passion for the Truth. This passionate support/disdain of Kevin's is so crucial, especially in the last days. We must also be passionate in our support or rejection of the different issues.Mat. 11:12And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your whole life's "ministry" is pretty much about putting people down. You have allies on this forum but no real brethren (except - possibly, Dean). I suspect that Lance "likes him" because he makes sense. The "Cathoilic" thingy is important only to you -- not to Lance.You have not spoken honestly about Barth. I suspect this is a habit of yours -- speaking dishonestly of other's beliefs.C.S.L included. jd-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan openairmission@yahoo.comTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 18:02:00 -0800 (PST)Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Ebert Roeper give the 'Lion, the witch and the wardrobe' two thumbs up Lance likes him because he is so Catholic The mormons love him because he believed as they do in BECOMING a 'god'"Some people seem to think that I began by asking myself how I could say something about Christianity to children; then fixed on the fairy tale as an instrument; then collected information about child-psychology and decided what age group I'd write for; then drew up a list of basic Christian truths and hammered out 'allegories' to embody them. This is all pure moonshine. I couldn't write in that way at all. Everything began with images; a faun carrying an umbrella, a queen on a sledge, a magnificent lion. At first there wasn't even anything Christian about them; that element pushed itself in of its own accord" (Of Other Worlds, p. 36).http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/lewis/general.htm Lewis termed himself "very Catholic" -- his prayers for the dead, belief in purgatory, and rejection of the literal resurrection of the body are serious deviations from Biblical Christianity (C.S. Lewis: A Biography, p. 234); he even went to a priest for regular confession (p. 198), and received the sacrament of extreme unction on 7/16/63 (p. 301). His contention that some pagans may "belong to Christ without knowing it" is a destructive heresy (Mere Christianity, pp. 176-177), as was his statement that "Christ fulfils both Paganism and Judaism " (Reflections on the Psalms, p. 129). Lewis believed that we're to become "gods," an apparent affirmation of theistic evolution. He also believed the Book of Job is "unhistorical" (Reflections on the Psalms, pp. 110), and that the Bible contained "error" (pp. 110, 112) and is not divinely inspired (The Inklings, p. 175). Lewis used profanities, told bawdy stories, and frequently got drunk with his students (5/19/90, World magazine). Christians need to read more critically The Abolition of
Re: [TruthTalk] Judy WON'T answer because SHE CANNOT WITHOUT FALSIFICATION OR EMBARRASSMENT
Geez, Lance, all these different retorts to Judy via subject lines makes me wonder if the discussion is more about Judy than any theological issue. Or has Judy become the issue for you?::yawn::Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: She can speak ill of the saints of God without having read a word of primary source material yet, our beloved MODERATOR gives her a total 'pass'. Happily, David Miller did not. Kudos to you, David. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 03, 2005 09:09Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:Tell ya what I'm gonna do, JudyWhy would I waste God's time reading some theologian who with all his great learningdid not believe the scriptures to be inerrant? Obviously he was not led by the Spirit of God. I understand why you like him though as TFT is one of his fans andthey study him at Princeton - so his must be the "expert opinion"- right?.Barth's theology assumes a certain amount of the tenets of liberal Christianity, most notably the assumption that the Bible is not historically and scientifically accurate. Barth has been called by fundamentalist Christianity a "neo-Orthodox" because, while his theology retains most or all of the tenets of Christianity, he rejects Biblical inerrancy. His reconciliation of having a rigorous Christian theology without a supporting text that was considered to be historically accurate was to separate theological truth from historical truth. It is arguably for this belief that Barth has been criticized the most harshly by more conservative Christians such as Francis Schaeffer. On Sat, 3 Dec 2005 08:54:44 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And, speaking of what won't 'fly'; just what of Karl Barth's own writings have you read? (primary source material)footnote:Same question of John Calvin footnote:Does it matter? From: Judy Taylor Just because I have used a few of Hunt's footnoted quotes in an online thread re John Calvin Geneva doesnot mean that I am a follower of Dave Hunt or that I interpret scripture according to his writings... so that won't fly.On Sat, 3 Dec 2005 08:10:46 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'll engage you on Dave Hunt, utilizing my conversations with and those works of his that I've read. You engage me on Karl Barth based upon those works of his that you've actually read. How's that for fair? Thereafter we'll see whether either assessment stands. From: Judy Taylor I am not in any position to judge Barf's personal life and neither are you Lance. Calvins' was a bit more public.And didn't you write the following "I've met the 'Huntmeister' and, we spoke. He's big into this 'end times' drivel. . "Talk about the pot calling the kettle black, isn't the above a truly shallow, petulant, and uniformed caricature reprehensible?On Sat, 3 Dec 2005 07:35:56 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This man served our Lord faithfully throughout his life as did John Calvin. To take note of these truly shallow, petulant, and uniformed caricatures is reprehensible. What 'spirit' inhabits such an one as this? Take care Judy" From: Judy Taylor Footnotes?? Only if the original thought makes any sense. Barf definitely would not qualify. On Sat, 3 Dec 2005 06:06:20 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: One would not have thought you so easily impressed, Judy. Ya wants footnotes? May I suggest Karl Barth? I've met the 'Huntmeister' and, we spoke. He's big into this 'end times' drivel. . judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) Yahoo! Personals Let fate take it's course directly to your email. See who's waiting for you Yahoo! Personals
Re: [TruthTalk] Thank You TT
It was wonderful to "meet" you, cd. I thoroughly enjoyed your stay on TT. Lord bless you! Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:cd: I have come to realize my passion are to much for extended stay on TT. To my family on this site-you have a place in my heart.Bill Thank you for being a brother. Judy and Izzy you are the reason(s) I have been here as I wanted to help. David I want to be brothers with you and if we continue on I will never know you for here I only "see" part of what of what you are-I may try again -God bless you. The weakness I see in most of the group is the lack of being " One Book". The winners of all discussion are those-as Judyis- of one book. Judy- David is wrong on many things including NASV and Calvinism and I believe he can learn from you as he is not of "one Book-Thank you Kevin for returning the KJ Bible to me:-) No one on this site need fear (not that anyone has feared-tough crowd) any law suite or revenge from me-God on the other hand may have issues. My grandson wants to play no w- and my wife smiles at this letter-bye. Yahoo! Personals Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet. Lots of someones, actually. Yahoo! Personals
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: bush song
LOL!Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Calvin would have made a good muslim.Judy Taylor wrote: No he didn't, deceived ppl never know they are deceived. Calvin was drinking from a poisoned stream, his mentorwas Augustine rather than Christ. I don't agree that he will receive a "well done thou good and faithful servant"because the servant is like his Master and Calvin was nothing at all like Christ. Christ never everhunted ppl down, banished them, flogged them, or burned the first one at the stake fornot agreeing with him. He preached the gospel and warned them and as His ambassadors we are to do the same. Mercy always triumphs over judgment.On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 21:08:09 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..and 500 years from now, John Calvin'sincreasingly interesting influenceon globalfellowship with the Christ who partook of our human sufferings as God will be as vibrant as it is now, ~500 yearsafter he wrote the Institutes, direct evidence of his historic, public faith in Christeven as a politician he didn't hide it from anybodyOn Thu, 1 Dec 2005 19:42:52 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: GWBs declining presidency, like he himself,is public property; so are his educational, tax, military records, records of his family career in Texas, his local and national campaign speeches, policy documents, bill signings, news conferences,faith-based initiatives, military operations. tax codes, state of the union addresses, radio commentaries, office transcripts, public appearance tapes, convention speeches, fund raising banquet circuit notes, off-handed comments, and what ever he's ever said or done and embodied in his closest associatesOn Thu, 1 Dec 2005 11:25:50 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || I am saying that you have no right to judge another man's servant because he is not in the public forum as a preacher/teacher. || judytHe that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) Yahoo! Personals Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet. Lots of someones, actually. Yahoo! Personals
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: bush song
I do not get the allusion. What do you mean by: "Gee, Judy, you would made a great follower of satanic lies."?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The following MAY be reade as 'offence given' BUT it is NOT. Judy would also make a good muslim, IMO. (If anyone, other than Judy obviously, gets this allusion then, please say so.). - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 02, 2005 07:48Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: bush songCalvin would have made a good muslim.Judy Taylor wrote: No he didn't, deceived ppl never know they are deceived. Calvin was drinking from a poisoned stream, his mentor was Augustine rather than Christ. I don't agree that he will receive a "well done thou good and faithful servant" because the servant is like his Master and Calvin was nothing at all like Christ. Christ never everhunted ppl down, banished them, flogged them, or burned the first one at the stake fornot agreeing with him. He preached the gospel and warned them and as His ambassadors we are to do the same. Mercy always triumphs over judgment.On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 21:08:09 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..and 500 years from now, John Calvin'sincreasingly interesting influenceon globalfellowship with the Christ who partook of our human sufferings as God will be as vibrant as it is now, ~500 yearsafter he wrote the Institutes, direct evidence of his historic, public faith in Christeven as a politician he didn't hide it from anybodyOn Thu, 1 Dec 2005 19:42:52 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: GWBs declining presidency, like he himself,is public property; so are his educational, tax, military records, records of his familycareer in Texas, his local and national campaign speeches, policy documents, bill signings, news conferences,faith-based initiatives, military operations. tax codes, state of the union addresses, radio commentaries, office transcripts, public appearance tapes, convention speeches, fund raising banquet circuit notes, off-handed comments, and what ever he's ever said or done and embodied in his closest associatesOn Thu, 1 Dec 2005 11:25:50 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ||I am saying that you have no right to judge another man's servant because he is not in the public forum as a preacher/teacher.||judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] **Moderator Comment**
Perhaps Perry misunderstood your post because of his youth. I've heard it makes one thick-headed. ;-)Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I DID NOT CALL JUDY A MUSLIM. I MEANT THROUGH MY REMARKS to suggest that, given her remarks concerning Calvin, along with her general demeanour in multitudinous posts, that she (biblicist - similar to a Muslim's interpretation of the Koran, fundamentalist-every religious group's got 'em etc.) were she one she'd make a good one.Her judgmentalism, concerning many both on and off the list, is equalled only by that of Kevin Dean, Linda and, Lance's. It depends upon the ox being gored.From: "Charles Perry Locke" To: Sent: December 02, 2005 09:57Subject: [TruthTalk] **Moderator Comment** Your allusion escapes me, but your illusion does not. Calling Judy, or anyone on this forum a muslim is an ad-hom reference, Lance. Terry's was too, but Calvin is not on this forum. Perry the ModeratorFrom: "Lance Muir" Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgTo: Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: bush songDate: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 08:14:16 -0500The following MAY be reade as 'offence given' BUT it is NOT. Judy would also make a good muslim, IMO. (If anyone, other than Judy obviously, gets this allusion then, please say so.). - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 02, 2005 07:48 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: bush song Calvin would have made a good muslim. Judy Taylor wrote: No he didn't, deceived ppl never know they are deceived. Calvin was drinking from a poisoned stream, his mentor was Augustine rather than Christ. I don't agree that he will receive a "well done thou good and faithful servant" because the servant is like his Master and Calvin was nothing at all like Christ. Christ never ever hunted ppl down, banished them, flogged them, or burned the first one at the stake for not agreeing with him. He preached the gospel and warned them and as His ambassadors we are to do the same. Mercy always triumphs over judgment. On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 21:08:09 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..and 500 years from now, John Calvin's increasingly interesting influence on global fellowship with the Christ who partook of our human sufferings as God will be as vibrant as it is now, ~500 years after he wrote the Institutes, direct evidence of his historic, public faith in Christ even as a politician he didn't hide it from anybody On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 19:42:52 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: GWBs declining presidency, like he himself, is public property; so are his educational, tax, military records, records of his family career in Texas, his local and national campaign speeches, policy documents, bill signings, news conferences, faith-based initiatives, military operations. tax codes, state of the union addresses, radio commentaries, office transcripts, public appearance tapes, convention speeches, fund raising banquet circuit notes, off-handed comments, and what ever he's ever said or done and embodied in his closest associates On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 11:25:50 -0500 Judy Taylor writes: ||I am saying that you have no right to judge another man's servant because he is not in the public forum as a preacher/teacher. || judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Yahoo! Personals Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet. Lots of someones, actually. Try Yahoo! Personals
Re: [TruthTalk] A real question! Who IS Jesus?
Amen, Lance! You are right: the question of "Who is Jesus" should really be the question. Today we only think about ourselves, and engage in idolotry.Psa 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God Blessings Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: WHAT IF GOD WERE (BECAME) ONE OF US? Jesus' abound:New Age Jesus (ascended master et al), JW Jesus (Michael the archangel), Mormon Jesus (literal offspring - via Mary - of a god who himself was once a man). Dan Brown's Jesus (DaVinci Code) One could go on and on and.Does it matter WHO JESUS IS? Do true believers come, via Scripture, to sincere but DIFFERING CONCLUSIONS? Is the 'heart of the gospel' to be found in the answer to this question?IMO, THE MOST ASKED QUESTION ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH is WHY? (why me, why now, why this, why that).. Is it possible that the answer to (IMO) 'the most asked question' is to be found in 'WHO JESUS IS' (Does WHO take precedence over WHY AND WHAT)Of course there are a multitude of other and, important questions but, is any question more central than this? (WHO IS JESUS, WHO IS EMMANUEL, WHO IS THIS JEW BORN OF MARY, WHO IS THIS MAN RELATIVE TO THE FATHER AND THE SPIRIT?) Does the 'GOSPEL WE PREACH' grow out our answer to this? Yahoo! Personals Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet. Lots of someones, actually. Yahoo! Personals
Re: [TruthTalk] The Eternal Sonship and the Adoption heresey
Isn't "we" all those who saw Jesus in the flesh? What's your point, Gary?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: who is 'we', Bro? (think about this, Christine:)On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 22:50:02 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The first chapter of John's gospel makes it clear that God (Christ) cameto "his people" (in this case they are ONLY the people of GOD).The Word, pronounced to be God Himselfin v 1became flesh and in the flesh, we beheld His glory, the glory of the only begotten (v 14). Yahoo! Personals Let fate take it's course directly to your email. See who's waiting for you Yahoo! Personals
Re: [TruthTalk] The Eternal Sonship and the Adoption heresey
Or is it the three who saw Jesus on the mount of transfiguration? I thought about that right after I hit "Send." Sorry about responding to myself, but perhaps you will understand, Gary. ;-)Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't "we" all those who saw Jesus in the flesh? What's your point, Gary?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: who is 'we', Bro? (think about this, Christine:)On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 22:50:02 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The first chapter of John's gospel makes it clear that God (Christ) cameto "his people" (in this case they are ONLY the people of GOD).The Word, pronounced to be God Himselfin v 1became flesh and in the flesh, we beheld His glory, the glory of the only begotten (v 14). Yahoo! Personals Let fate take it's course directly to your email. See who's waiting for you Yahoo! Personals Yahoo! Personals Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet. Lots of someones, actually. Yahoo! Personals
Re: [TruthTalk] Back to Heb 10:14
JD wrote: If (a) you do not see babe - maturity as a process and (b) if you do not see that the "practice" as a move into holiness -- then you will not see why I used this passage. I do see the maturity process in Heb 5, but it is (b) I do not see. The practice is not as a move into holiness. This is where we disagree on the meaning of the word "sanctification." Read back to verse 8: Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered. This is what verses 13 and 14 are talking about: Christ was always holy and sinless. But he still had to learn things, to progress from the milk to the meat. Christ was sanctified, but there was still some maturing that had to take place. Not a maturing into holiness, but into one who (verse 14:) "by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil." I am using the analogy of adoption to understand the difference between sanctification and the "obedience" Christ learned in verse 8. When a child is adopted, there isn't a long process. Bam. You're a member of the household now. BUT being a new member of the household doesn't mean you automatically know how the house does things. You have to learn to not leave your clothes on the floor. You have to learn that when you're done eating dinner you take your plate to the sink. You have to learn to abide by your new curfew. These are the metephorical house rules I was talking about. Sorry for not elucidating earlier, I can see how that comment must have seemed to come from left field. Do you see now how I view sanctification as an adoption?Blessings![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:"But everyone who partakesonly of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern goodand evil" (Heb 5:13-14). If (a) you do not see babe - maturity as a process and (b) if you do not see that the "practice" as a move into holiness -- then you will not see why I used this passage. "House rules" isnot how I would typify the subject matter of Heb 5. I see two considerations in chapter 5 --the first is the purpose and function of Christ as thesource of our salvation and , secondly, the addressee's failure to have matured into the full stature of Christ. That bit of subject matter begins in v 11 of chapter 5 and continues well into chapter 6.Sanctification (being set apart as a result of holiness increa sed) is not acompleted task in this case. In Heb 10:10 , sanctification is the result of a vicarious action on the part of God in Christ. The purpose of God's considerationis fulfilled, completed if you will, in Christ. In Christ, the consideration of sanctification is finished. The fact of sanctification in our lives is another matter, altogether. So, in Heb 10:14 we "are being sanctified." House rules ???? Perhaps you could elucidate. jd-Original Message-From: Christine Miller verilysaid@yahoo.comTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 20:55:16 -0800 (PST)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Back to Heb 10:14JD wrote:Paul teaches sanctification as a continuing process in Eph 4:20-24 and in Heb 5:13-14.I don't wish to distract you from the present issue of Heb 10:14, but I am not sure I understand your references here. Specifically in Heb. 5, I do not see sanctification being discussed at all. The act of being adopted as a child of God is not the same thing as learning the house rules. Heb. 5 is not talking about sanctification, but learning the house rules, learning to "discern both good and evil." Perhaps we disagree on what "sanctification" means?Blessings! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is almost -- but not quite - humorous, your inability to converse with me without the put downs. Also, for some reason, when I go down into the body of your post, I cannot singlespace my response unless I write it somewhere else and copy it into the post -- below the "-Original Message " line. Strange. And this applies to all your posts. I wrote that "durative" is an action that beginsin the past and is linear in the present. You wrote "No true " and referred me to a discussion by Robertson on p 821. You even give a quote from that page. First, durative is just as I said and my definition comes from Robertson. Secondly, the problems Robertson has in mind is carefully defined with specific references within the article. If he meant to include the present passive participle, he does not mention it in this section. I am not sure what you think is being said when you point to the "descriptive durative " You write :This means that he views it only as descriptive linear action. That seems to be my point. Does this mean that "lea
Re: [TruthTalk] Back to Heb 10:14
I have already defined sanctification: it is a spiritual adoption. When we are sancitified, we are made children of God, and as a child of god, made clean. We are forgiven and may take our places in the body of Christ (and ultimately, Heaven). Sanctification is not to be confused with the "obedience" spoken of in Heb 5:8. The maturity process should not be confused with the act of being sanctified. JD wrote: When sanctification is seen or taught as an on going event or present reality not yet attained, we are included in the effortBut JD, I thought you were a fan of grace apart from works. We have nothing to do with the act of sanctification, except to have faith in Christ's promise to do it. We do, however, have some participation in the process of obedience, which is, to submit to the sufferings mentioned in Heb 5:8. These two events are separate. I see this as the crux of our disagreement. JD wrote: The discerment of good and evil is, for you, intellectual and for me, ontological.You are certainly right about one thing here: only one of us is being led by the Spirit, and the other by the intellect. We cannot both be submitting to the same influence. As to who is led by what: I'll let your comment be the last on that. Blessings[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message-From: Christine Miller verilysaid@yahoo.comTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 10:48:04 -0800 (PST)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Back to Heb 10:14JD wrote:If (a) you do not see babe - maturity as a process and (b) if you do not see that the "practice" as a move into holiness -- then you will not see why I used this passage.I do see the maturity process in Heb 5, but it is (b) I do not see. The practice is not as a move into holiness. This is where we disagree on the meaning of the word "sanctification." Read back to verse 8: Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered. This is what verses 13 and 14 are talking about: Christ was always holy and sinless. But he still had to learn things, to progress from the milk to the meat. Christ was sanctified, but there was still some maturing that had to take place. Not a maturing into holiness, but into one who (verse 14:) "by reason of use have their sens es exercised to discern both good and evil."The discerment of good and evil is, for you, intellectual and for me, ontological. But I doubt that either is acquired in a Divinely authored BAM !!! Hence --"process" I am using the analogy of adoption to understand the difference between sanctification and the "obedience" Christ learned in verse 8. When a child is adopted, there isn't a long process. Bam. You're a member of the household now. BUT being a new member of the household doesn't mean you automatically know how the house does things. You have to learn to not leave your clothes on the floor. You have to learn that when you're done eating dinner you take your plate to the sink. You have to learn to abide by your new curfew. These are the metephorical house rules I was talking about. Sorry for not elucidating earlier, I can see how that comment must have seemed to come from left field. Do you see now how I view sanctification as an adoption?by the way -- the Divine BAM is something I believe but it is IN ADDITION to my personal ontology. When sanctification is seen as a completed act, it is the result of an action of God in christ apart from our efforts. When sanctification is seen or taught as an on going event or present reality not yet attained, we are included in the effort as per Eph 4:20-24.It is God at work within us both to will and to accomplish His good pleasure, hense the possibility of a passivity on our part that gives glory to no one else but God while we benefit from theaction as person indwelt by the Creator. How in the world can this be wrong? God gets ALL the glory and we receive all the benefit !!! Praise the Lord !!How do you define "sanctification?" Jd"But everyone who partakesonly of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern goodand evil" (Heb 5:13-14). If (a) you do not see babe - maturity as a process and (b) if you do not see that the "practice" as a move into holiness -- then you will not see why I used this passage. "House rules" isnot how I would typify the subject matter of Heb 5. I see two considerations in chapter 5 --the first is the purpose and function of Christ as thesource of our salvation and , secondly, the addressee's failure to have matured into the full stature of Christ. That bit of subject matte r begins in v 11 of chapter 5 and continues well into chapter 6.Sanctification (being set apart as a
Re: [TruthTalk] Romans 1:18-32 and beyond
Judy wrote: There is no such animal as a "believing sinner" - Sin is sin, and righteousness is righteous. Abraham believed and it was counted to him for righteousness. The just shall live by faith.Amen, Judy! While I know we have never addressed this issue on TT before, I suspect this is the crux of the disagreement. Also, JD, since when did exhortation to right-living become judging? And how can Jesus save those who do not know that they are living in sin? (i.e., "I came to save the sinners, not the righteous") Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 09:42:23 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Actually, Ro 1: 18-25 is a statement ofcircumstances failed and , as such, find the sinner given over to his own creation.Romans 1 speaks of what happens to people who hold the truth in unrighteousness. That is, they know the truth but do not choose to walk in it. God eventually gives them over to a depraved mind. What are you talking about "failed circumstances?" We are responsible for our choices every day same as them.Homosexuality is only one of 26 sins listed -- a list that was NOT intended to bea complete list, no doubt. Verses 18-25 applies to back-talking parents just as much as it applies to homosexuality. Paul has not singled out one sin (gayness) to the exclusion of the others in the list.Maybe not but sexual perversion and uncleanness in this area is huge, it is taking over our country and should be taken more seriously than put on a par with "talking back to parents" Look at the sins of the Amorites for which they were driven out and destroyed as a nation:1. Homosexuality 2. Incest3. Inordinate affection4. Adultery5. Idolatry6. Profanity7. Bestiality8. Witchcraft9. Whoredom10. Dishonor to parents11. Murder12. Stealing13. LyingBecause of the truth of such passages as Heb.10:14, werealize that we are not to be defined by our sins. Instead, we are to consider ourselves dead tosin (Ro 6:11) and in this consideration, allow the old man to fade while the new man becomes the motivating influence ( Eph 4:20-24 -- yes Virginian, the old man is still there).Who is Virginian JD? Are you speaking in a veiled way to me? I don't define myself by sin; I see myself as righteousin Christ - thank you.We are all affected by sin (Ro 2:1) and should not forget this fact when we are filled with he desire to judge others as if we are different. The point of the book of Romans is two-fold (at least through chapter 8) -- we are sinners andstill dealing with sin issuesAND God in Christ saves us anyway.The above must be the gospel according to JD because my Bible tells me that we should judge only with righteous judgment and not stick our heads in the sand. In the Romans 1:18-25 passage, the difference between "us" and "them" is seen in the "failed circumstances" mentioned, to wit:we are given over to our individual lusts (all temptation appeals to a lust of some kind - James 1:14-15) -- preferring the sin to the savior; we come to a point when we serve ourselves to the exclusion of God; we have cease to honor God as God; we have left off giving thanks to God (acknowledging His as our provider); turning to speculations [as opposed to being led by the Spirit].We our sinstake us to the point of these failures, we are lost. The scary truth of the matter is this: all sin has this ability.Yeah, well the same choice was given to Cain when God told him that sin lay at the door but he must choose.He made the wrong choice and was left with the consequences. How quaint that you now refer to this as"failed circumstances" exonerating ppl of their own responsibility.If we "have all sinned and continue to fall short of His glory (Ro 3:23) , this passage (1:18-25) becomes critical -- presenting to us boundaries , so to speak, that separate the believing sinner from the unbelieving sinner. JdThere is no such animal as a "believing sinner" - Sin is sin, and righteousness is righteous. Abraham believed and it was counted to him for righteousness. The just shall live by faith.-Original Message-From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]comTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 05:30:48 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Emailing: NIV.htm Thanks David. As I suspected, no illustrations.L- Original Message - From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: November 22, 2005 18:00Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Emailing: NIV.htm Lance wrote: Other than when speaking with the religious leaders, will you illustrate Jesus doing something comparable? Why
Re: [TruthTalk] Emailing: NIV.htm
You mean you want me to consider all of the Chinese people reading a bible that is not the KJV? You reject the KJV because of the Spanish translations and the Dutch translations and the Korean translations? I was asking about the version specifically. The only complaint I have ever heard against the KJV was about its old English. If that's the only obstacle, why should I not feel that it is the best translation?Another aspect to the KJV is that it trains the reader to truly study. I don't feel that further study is required to understand the word, but it doesn't translate it for you, like the NIV, or cut stuff out. It also helps you to remember that there is a cultural gap between myself and those about whom I am reading. If instead of Paul's "Greetings to the saints" we get "Shout out to my homies," (Hey Pete! That one was for you,) I could come to forget that I am reading about a different culture. I have seen Christians forget about the cultural gaps, and become frusterated because it just doesn't seem to make perfect sense. Or it just doesn't come alive for them because they don't see the big deal about circumcision, forgetting about the huge culture clashes of that time.Again: the Holy Spirit is required for a lot of this understanding, but the KJV really seems superior to the other translations. I would like to understand the other side of this, however, because I am having a little difficulty empathizing. :-) Blessings!Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Christine:For your consideration:Think globally. Consider every believer and, the 'translation' from which they are reading. How many are reading the KJV. What are the implications? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: November 21, 2005 17:59Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Emailing: NIV.htmIf you want to know what Lance THINKS, read the articles he posted by someone else!Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the input, Lance. It is always good to hear some thoughtful discourse on the different translations. Am I correct in understanding that you object to my statement that the KJV is the "best" translation? Do you mind if I ask why? Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Evaluating the New International VersionBefore we look at any of the "modern" Bible translations, it is important to understand some important concepts principles of linguistics and translation.Important Concepts in Bible TranslationBefore we begin looking at various Bible translations, there are some important concepts and principles that we need to consider and understand.Limits of Language When we talk about translation, we must first realize that any translation from one language to another has limits. All languages are not arranged in the same way. In fact, most languages are arranged differently.Grammar: Each language has its own grammatical rules. We cannot try to apply the grammar rules of one language to another directly. In the work of translating, the grammatical rules of each language must be respected.Semantic Range: The meaning of words in one language may not have the same range of meaning in another language (eg. - eros, agape, philos = English "love")Syntax: Syntax refers to the structure of phrases. Each language has a different way of putting sentences together. Some have verbs first and nouns second. Some have the adjective before a noun while others place the adjectives after the noun.Literal (verbal consistency) Some translations choose to translate the words of the original language directly. The responsibility is therefore on the reader to check out the meaning of the original word themselves. Whether it is a form of measurement or an archaic word, those who prefer to translate literally or word-for-word keep the exact word of the text.Idiomatic An idiomatic translation attempts to make the meaning of the passage clear, not just give a word-perfect translation. The idea here is that rather than make you find out what how big a "cubit" is, the translators give a modern measurement such as "feet" so that the reader understands the meaning. The translators do the background research into the ancient forms of measurement and provide a conversion rate that is mathematically equivalent. This can not only take place in relation to measurements and the like, but also can apply to concepts. An idiomatic translation u
Re: [TruthTalk] Emailing: NIV.htm
Title: Evaluating the New International Version Judy, I think Lance is meaning to say that no culture is better than any other culture, and that includes their bible translations. Please be more accepting to the pagan cultures and their bible translations. :-)Was that it, Lance? Cultural relativism applied to bible translations?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No Judy, I am not saying (meaning) that! Anyone care to explain my MEANING to Judy? - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: November 22, 2005 06:28Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Emailing: NIV.htmInteresting answer Lance,So what are you saying? Should God's Word be dumbed down to accommodate pagan animistic cultures? On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 06:09:31 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A friend, John Wilson, worked with the Yali (Irian Jaya, Indonesia) for 20+ years. He worked with a team to help construct a written language (they didn't have one) then, went on to translate the entire Bible into Yali. One snowy night in February, some years back, Otto, a Yali who was proofreading the manuscript, came into our store. Many words had to be changed as they hadn't such things in their culture (snow, bread etc.). This was not a KJV. How many similar stories exist all over the globe? - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: November 21, 2005 16:32Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Emailing: NIV.htmThanks for the input, Lance. It is always good to hear some thoughtful discourse on the different translations. Am I correct in understanding that you object to my statement that the KJV is the "best" translation? Do you mind if I ask why? Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Evaluating the New International VersionBefore we look at any of the "modern" Bible translations, it is important to understand some important concepts principles of linguistics and translation. Important Concepts in Bible Translation Before we begin looking at various Bible translations, there are some important concepts and principles that we need to consider and understand. Limits of Language When we talk about translation, we must first realize that any translation from one language to another has limits. All languages are not arranged in the same way. In fact, most languages are arranged differently. Grammar: Each language has its own grammatical rules. We cannot try to apply the grammar rules of one language to another directly. In the work of translating, the grammatical rules of each language must be respected. Semantic Range: The meaning of words in one language may not have the same range of meaning in another language (eg. - eros, agape, philos = English "love") Syntax: Syntax refers to the structure of phrases. Each language has a different way of putting sentences together. Some have verbs first and nouns second. Some have the adjective before a noun while others place the adjectives after the noun. Literal (verbal consistency) Some translations choose to translate the words of the original language directly. The responsibility is therefore on the reader to check out the meaning of the original word themselves. Whether it is a form of measurement or an archaic word, those who prefer to translate literally or word-for-word keep the exact word of the text. Idiomatic An idiomatic translation attempts to make the meaning of the passage clear, not just give a word-perfect translation. The idea here is that rather than make you find out what how big a "cubit" is, the translators give a modern measurement such as "feet" so that the reader understands the meaning. The translators do the background research into the ancient forms of measurement and provide a conversion rate that is mathematically equivalent. This can not only take place in relation to measurements and the like, but also can apply to concepts. An idiomatic translation uses a dynamic (or idiomatic) equivalent. Note: We never want to sacrifice historical accuracy (fidelity) for idiomatic _expression_. For example, just because everyon
Re: [TruthTalk] Emailing: NIV.htm
Title: Evaluating the New International Version Lance, I think you are forgetting that Judy and I have represented ourselves as somewhat moderate on the KJV issue. We are simply asking about your personal rejection of the KJV. I appreciate your exhortion to prayer and humility, critical thinking, and study, and I accept it. It's noble advice. But we are only speaking about personal matters, not about how we should burn any and all other translations.We are only asking: what are your personal qualms with the version? Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Take a wild guess Judy as to the percentage of believers, globally, who are reading either the KJV or a KJV based translation.My goodness, what is it with you wackos and the KJV (yes, DaveH this does include your entire sect)? For all who suffer from 'KJVitis' I'd suggest a healthy dose of prayer, humility, critical thinking and, study. (these aren't from SATAN are they cd?) - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: November 22, 2005 07:05Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Emailing: NIV.htmCould you for once deign to explain your own meaning Lance rather than put it off on others? What makes youthink they understand any better than I do? You keep telling ppl to think global - what's that all about? If theYali guy doesn't know about snow, bread, etc. Get him a Little Golden Book and show and tell On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 06:52:40 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: No Judy, I am not saying (meaning) that! Anyone care to explain my MEANING to Judy? From: Judy Taylor Interesting answer Lance,So what are you saying? Should God's Word be dumbed down to accommodate pagan animistic cultures?On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 06:09:31 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A friend, John Wilson, worked with the Yali (Irian Jaya, Indonesia) for 20+ years. He worked with a team to help construct a written language (they didn't have one) then, went on to translate the entire Bible into Yali. One snowy night in February, some years back, Otto, a Yali who was proofreading the manuscript, came into our store. Many words had to be changed as they hadn't such things in their culture (snow, bread etc.). This was not a KJV. How many similar stories exist all over the globe? From: Christine Miller Thanks for the input, Lance. It is always good to hear some thoughtful discourse on the different translations. Am I correct in understanding that you object to my statement that the KJV is the "best" translation? Do you mind if I ask why? Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Evaluating the New International VersionBefore we look at any of the "modern" Bible translations, it is important to understand some important concepts principles of linguistics and translation. Important Concepts in Bible Translation Before we begin looking at various Bible translations, there are some important concepts and principles that we need to consider and understand. Limits of Language When we talk about translation, we must first realize that any translation from one language to another has limits. All languages are not arranged in the same way. In fact, most languages are arranged differently. Grammar: Each language has its own grammatical rules. We cannot try to apply the grammar rules of one language to another directly. In the work of translating, the grammatical rules of each language must be respected. Semantic Range: The meaning of words in one language may not have the same range of meaning in another language (eg. - eros, agape, philos = English "love") Syntax: Syntax refers to the structure of phrases. Each language has a different way of putting sentences together. Some have verbs first and nouns second. Some have the adjective before a noun while others place the adjectives after the noun. Literal (verbal consistency) Some translations choose to translate the words of the original language directly. The responsibility is
Re: [TruthTalk] Emailing: NIV.htm
I appreciate your offer, but I want to know your personal feelings on this. Changing "Give us our daily bread" to "Give us our daily sweet potatoe" is factually incorrect. Do you disagree, Lance? We are bending over backwards to make the stories in our bibles dated in 2005 in our own country. It's important to learn a little something about Jesus' culture, and what it meant for a person to say "give us this day our daily bread" in his time. This is a serious obstacle to many Christians today who reading bibles that treat them like 5-year olds. I call a burrito by its spanish name because there isn't an English equivalent. They can call it bread in their translation and put a note explaining what bread is and give a culturally relavant food. But don't completely change it. Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Should you wish it then, I'll put you directly in touch with the one who worked on the 'Yali translation'. You could contact Wycliffe Bible Translators or, any similarly 'empathetic' organization making God's Word available, in a non KJV translation, all 'round the globe.SUCH AS THIS MIGHT HELP YOU TO UNDERSTAND THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS, IFF YOU ARE TRULY SERIOUSf- Original Message ----- From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: November 22, 2005 08:38Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Emailing: NIV.htmYou mean you want me to consider all of the Chinese people reading a bible that is not the KJV? You reject the KJV because of the Spanish translations and the Dutch translations and the Korean translations? I was asking about the version specifically. The only complaint I have ever heard against the KJV was about its old English. If that's the only obstacle, why should I not feel that it is the best translation?Another aspect to the KJV is that it trains the reader to truly study. I don't feel that further study is required to understand the word, but it doesn't translate it for you, like the NIV, or cut stuff out. It also helps you to remember that there is a cultural gap between myself and those about whom I am reading. If instead of Paul's "Greetings to the saints" we get "Shout out to my homies," (Hey Pete! That one was for you,) I could come to forget that I am reading about a different culture. I have seen Christians forget about the cultural gaps, and become frusterated because it just doesn't seem to make perfect sense. Or it just doesn't come alive for them because they don't see the big deal about circumcision, forgetting about the huge culture clashes of that time.Again: the Holy Spirit is required for a lot of this understanding, but the KJV really seems superior to the other translations. I would like to understand the other side of this, however, because I am having a little difficulty empathizing. :-)Blessings!Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Christine:For your consideration:Think globally. Consider every believer and, the 'translation' from which they are reading. How many are reading the KJV. What are the implications? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: November 21, 2005 17:59Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Emailing: NIV.htmIf you want to know what Lance THINKS, read the articles he posted by someone else!Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the input, Lance. It is always good to hear some thoughtful discourse on the different translations. Am I correct in understanding that you object to my statement that the KJV is the "best" translation? Do you mind if I ask why? Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Evaluating the New International VersionBefore we look at any of the "modern" Bible translations, it is important to understand some important concepts principles of linguistics and translation.Important Concepts in Bible TranslationBefore we begin looking at various Bible translations, there are some important concepts and principles that we need to consider and understand.Limits of Language When we talk about translation, we must first realize that any translation from one language to another has limits. All languages are not arranged in the same way. In fact, most languages are arranged differently. Grammar: Each language has its own grammatical rules
Re: [TruthTalk] Emailing: NIV.htm
Title: Evaluating the New International Version So you have no objections to the KJV? Well. That was easy. :-)Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK then. I grew up on it. I read it. I enjoy it. I've memorized great gobs of it. I sell it in our store. My first gift to my wife was a KJV Thomson Chain Reference Bible (she still reads it). Does that help? - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: November 22, 2005 08:49Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Emailing: NIV.htmLance, I think you are forgetting that Judy and I have represented ourselves as somewhat moderate on the KJV issue. We are simply asking about your personal rejection of the KJV. I appreciate your exhortion to prayer and humility, critical thinking, and study, and I accept it. It's noble advice. But we are only speaking about personal matters, not about how we should burn any and all other translations.We are only asking: what are your personal qualms with the version? Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Take a wild guess Judy as to the percentage of believers, globally, who are reading either the KJV or a KJV based translation.My goodness, what is it with you wackos and the KJV (yes, DaveH this does include your entire sect)? For all who suffer from 'KJVitis' I'd suggest a healthy dose of prayer, humility, critical thinking and, study. (these aren't from SATAN are they cd?) - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: November 22, 2005 07:05Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Emailing: NIV.htmCould you for once deign to explain your own meaning Lance rather than put it off on others? What makes youthink they understand any better than I do? You keep telling ppl to think global - what's that all about? If theYali guy doesn't know about snow, bread, etc. Get him a Little Golden Book and show and tell On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 06:52:40 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: No Judy, I am not saying (meaning) that! Anyone care to explain my MEANING to Judy? From: Judy Taylor Interesting answer Lance,So what are you saying? Should God's Word be dumbed down to accommodate pagan animistic cultures?On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 06:09:31 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A friend, John Wilson, worked with the Yali (Irian Jaya, Indonesia) for 20+ years. He worked with a team to help construct a written language (they didn't have one) then, went on to translate the entire Bible into Yali. One snowy night in February, some years back, Otto, a Yali who was proofreading the manuscript, came into our store. Many words had to be changed as they hadn't such things in their culture (snow, bread etc.). This was not a KJV. How many similar stories exist all over the globe? From: Christine Miller Thanks for the input, Lance. It is always good to hear some thoughtful discourse on the different translations. Am I correct in understanding that you object to my statement that the KJV is the "best" translation? Do you mind if I ask why? Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Evaluating the New International VersionBefore we look at any of the "modern" Bible translations, it is important to understand some important concepts principles of linguistics and translation. Important Concepts in Bible Translation Before we begin looking at various Bible translations, there are some important concepts and principles that we need to consider and understand. Limits of Language When we talk about translation, we must first realize that any translation from one language to another has limits. All languages are not arranged in the same way. In fact, most languages are arranged differently. Grammar: Eac
Re: [TruthTalk] Emailing: NIV.htm
Lance wrote: he is brandishing his hate-filled signsWhoa. I hear that line from bitter college students foaming at the mouth, but I never expected to hear that line on Truth Talk, even if we do disagree about the KJV. You can't be serious, Lance. Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I grant you that Terry. However misguidedhe is brandishing his hate-filled signs, one must acknowledge that he is out there doing/saying something.I see it as akin to restocking a lake full of pyranha with fresh fish. - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: November 22, 2005 09:58Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Emailing: NIV.htmLance Muir wrote: Nice try but, no cigar Christine. It is just possible that semantic dysfunctionality runs in the household. (It is an ongoing problem with your Dad. He's always had the same problem as Judy. i.e. distinguishing between syntax and semantics) -Some people go out and do. Some people stay home and read. The former know from experience. The latter know because someone said so. Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
Re: [TruthTalk] Emailing: NIV.htm
Kevin wrote: Don't wait for the Other side of the story cause all we get is mud slinging and whiningYou are right, Kevin. Somehow, I always start these things so hopeful. In Sir James Barrie's "Peter Pan" it said that the key to Peter's youth was that he forgot everything, even when people wronged him. And every time someone slighted him, he was shocked as if it were the first time. We'll chalk this one up to my naivete and move on to the next disagreement. :-)Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: LOL : ) That was really funny If instead of Paul's "Greetings to the saints" we get "Shout out to my homies," That is it, a translation for all One for the HOMIES! One for the HOMO's (NIV) One for the Fornicators!Don't wait for the Other side of the story cause all we get is mud slinging and whiningChristine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:You mean you want me to consider all of the Chinese people reading a bible that is not the KJV? You reject the KJV because of the Spanish translations and the Dutch translations and the Korean translations? I was asking about the version specifically. The only complaint I have ever heard against the KJV was about its old English. If that's the only obstacle, why should I not feel that it is the best translation?Another aspect to the KJV is that it trains the reader to truly study. I don't feel that further study is required to understand the word, but it doesn't translate it for you, like the NIV, or cut stuff out. It also helps you to remember that there is a cultural gap between myself and those about whom I am reading. If instead of Paul's "Greetings to the saints" we get "Shout out to my homies," (Hey Pete! That one was for you,) I could come to forget that I am reading about a different culture. I have seen Christians forget about the cultural gaps, and become frusterated because it just doesn't seem to make perfect sense. Or it just doesn't come alive for them because they don't see the big deal about circumcision, forgetting about the huge culture clashes of that time.Again: the Holy Spirit is required for a lot of this understanding, but the KJV really seems superior to the other translations. I would like to understand the other side of this, however, because I am having a little difficulty empathizing. :-)Blessings!Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Christine:For your consideration:Think globally. Consider every believer and, the 'translation' from which they are reading. How many are reading the KJV. What are the implications?- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: November 21, 2005 17:59 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Emailing: NIV.htmIf you want to know what Lance THINKS, read the articles he posted by someone else!Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the input, Lance. It is always good to hear some thoughtful discourse on the different translations. Am I correct in understanding that you object to my statement that the KJV is the "best" translation? Do you mind if I ask why? Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Evaluating the New International VersionBefore we look at any of the "modern" Bible translations, it is important to understand some important concepts principles of linguistics and translation. Important Concepts in Bible Translation Before we begin looking at various Bible translations, there are some important concepts and principles that we need to consider and understand. Limits of Language When we talk about translation, we must first realize that any translation from one language to another has limits. All languages are not arranged in the same way. In fact, most languages are arranged differently. Grammar: Each language has its own grammatical rules. We cannot try to apply the grammar rules of one language to another directly. In the work of translating, the grammatical rules of each language must be respected. Semantic Range: The meaning of words in one language may not have the same range of meaning in another language (eg. - eros, agape, philos = English "love") Syntax: Syntax refers to the structure of phrases. Each language has a different way of putting sentences together. Some have verbs first and nouns second. Some have the adjective before a noun while others place the adjectives after the noun. Literal (verbal consistency) Some translations choose to translate the words of the original language directly. The responsibility is therefore on the reader to check out the meaning of the original word themselves. Whether it is a form of measurement or an archaic word, those who prefer to translate literally or word-for-word keep the exact word of the text. Idiomatic An idiomatic translation attempts to make the meaning of the passage clear, not just give a word-perfec
[TruthTalk] Linking feminism and homosexuality
On that note, Kevin, I have come to realize the importance of feminism for homosexuality. This might be a very elementary conclusion for you all, but after discussing homosexuality with Tamara Cohen, the director of LGBT Affairs at UF (the same department my father is after), I recognized for the first time how feminism is the foundation of homosexuality. The problem is this: feminism attempts to erase all differences between the sexes. While it is absurd to me to say two men can have a "normal" relationship, others steeped in feminist propaganda do not raise any qualms with the idea. This is because the identity of the sexes have been blurred and eventually merged together. Now we say women are smarter than men, they are more sympathetic and emotionally more intelligent. Men can just as emotional, just as insecure. This is especially going on in RA training, where RAs acted out different crisis situations we may encounter. One was a situation with domestic abuse, except the woman was beating up the man. I have since taken an urgent stand against feminism. It is hateful to God, and I am starting to understand more and more why that is. This bible translation is only preparing more fuel for the fires of hell with their nearly subliminal changes.Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That is a good one, the Gender inclusive TNIV Maybe This HOMO Translation canmake the HOMEY Translation look good"While a basic core of the English language remains relatively stable, many diverse and complex cultural forces continue to bring about the subtle [Gen 3:1] shifts in the meanings and/or connotations of even old, well-established words and phrases. Among the more programmatic changes in the TNIV is the removal of nearly all vocative Os and the elimination of most instances of the generic use of masculine nouns and pronouns." TNIV, Preface, p. viiOther than radical, pro-abortion, feminists who is interested in removing masculine nouns pronouns?1 Timothy 1:9-10, TNIV We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers. And it is for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine Why not "practicing" murders, or "practicing" liars, or "practicing" slave traders? The HOMO's on the TX committee are at it again!The LB 1 Samuel 20:30, You son of a bitch!, which the NLT moderates to stupid son of a whore. What a fellowship what a joy divine! Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes! Yes! Yes! I have stopped beating my wife. It is the last translation I'd recommend to a new believer. #1. TNIV #2. NLT- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: November 22, 2005 12:08 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Emailing: NIV.htmWe are only asking: what are your personal qualms with the version? Now you were saying? What color is your car? Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK then. I grew up on it. I read it. I enjoy it. I've memorized great gobs of it. I sell it in our store. My first gift to my wife was a KJV Thomson Chain Reference Bible (she still reads it). Does that help? ----- Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: November 22, 2005 08:49 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Emailing: NIV.htmLance, I think you are forgetting that Judy and I have represented ourselves as somewhat moderate on the KJV issue. We are simply asking about your personal rejection of the KJV. I appreciate your exhortion to prayer and humility, critical thinking, and study, and I accept it. It's noble advice. But we are only speaking about personal matters, not about how we should burn any and all other translations.We are only asking: what are your personal qualms with the version? Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Take a wild guess Judy as to the percentage of believers, globally, who are reading either the KJV or a KJV based translation.My goodness, what is it with you wackos and the KJV (yes, DaveH this does include your entire sect)? For all who suffer from 'KJVitis' I'd suggest a healthy dose of prayer, humility, critical thinking and, study. (these aren't from SATAN are they cd?)- Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: November 22, 2005 07:05 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Emailing: NIV.htmCould you for once deign to explain your own meaning Lance rather than put it off on others? What makes you think they understand any better than I do? You keep telling ppl to think global - what's that all about? If the Yali guy doesn't know about snow, bread, e
Re: [TruthTalk] Emailing: NIV.htm
I am glad to hear you are noticing the same thing, Kevin. I was afraid I was getting a little paranoid. Either that or I need switch my major to Communications. LOL - "my car is Blue"Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is frustarting is the claim that they have a problem with it. then when asked just what the specifics are, you get answers like "my car is Blue"The LDS Complain Whine about the preaching outside Temple Square. When asked just what is so offensive about it, we get more of the same.It makes me think they are trying to put one over on us. They all seem so EMOTIONAL, trying to appeal to our feelings rather than Intelect. Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Kevin wrote:Don't wait for the Other side of the story cause all we get is mud slinging and whiningYou are right, Kevin. Somehow, I always start these things so hopeful. In Sir James Barrie's "Peter Pan" it said that the key to Peter's youth was that he forgot everything, even when people wronged him. And every time someone slighted him, he was shocked as if it were the first time. We'll chalk this one up to my naivete and move on to the next disagreement. :-)Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:LOL : ) That was really funny If instead of Paul's "Greetings to the saints" we get "Shout out to my homies," That is it, a translation for all One for the HOMIES! One for the HOMO's (NIV) One for the Fornicators!Don't wait for the Other side of the story cause all we get is mud slinging and whiningChristine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:You mean you want me to consider all of the Chinese people reading a bible that is not the KJV? You reject the KJV because of the Spanish translations and the Dutch translations and the Korean translations? I was asking about the version specifically. The only complaint I have ever heard against the KJV was about its old English. If that's the only obstacle, why should I not feel that it is the best translation?Another aspect to the KJV is that it trains the reader to truly study. I don't feel that further study is required to understand the word, but it doesn't translate it for you, like the NIV, or cut stuff out. It also helps you to remember that there is a cultural gap between myself and those about whom I am reading. If instead of Paul's "Greetings to the saints" we get "Shout out to my homies," (Hey Pete! That one was for you,) I could come to forget that I am reading about a different culture. I have seen Christians forget about the cultural gaps, and become frusterated because it just doesn't seem to make perfect sense. Or it just doesn't come alive for them because they don't see the big deal about circumcision, forgetting about the huge culture clashes of that time.Again: the Holy Spirit is required for a lot of this understanding, but the KJV really seems superior to the other translations. I would like to understand the other side of this, however, because I am having a little difficulty empathizing. :-)Blessings!Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Christine:For your consideration:Think globally. Consider every believer and, the 'translation' from which they are reading. How many are reading the KJV. What are the implications?- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: November 21, 2005 17:59 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Emailing: NIV.htmIf you want to know what Lance THINKS, read the articles he posted by someone else!Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the input, Lance. It is always good to hear some thoughtful discourse on the different translations. Am I correct in understanding that you object to my statement that the KJV is the "best" translation? Do you mind if I ask why? Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Evaluating the New International VersionBefore we look at any of the "modern" Bible translations, it is important to understand some important concepts principles of linguistics and translation. Important Concepts in Bible Translation Before we begin looking at various Bible translations, there are some important concepts and principles that we need to consider and understand. Limits of Language When we talk about translation, we must first realize that any translation from one language to another has limits. All languages are not arranged in the same way. In fact, most languages are arranged differently. Grammar: Each language has its own grammatical rules. We cannot try to apply the grammar rules of one language to another directly. In the work of translating, the grammatical rules of each language must be respected. Semantic Range: The meaning of words in one language may not have the same range of meaning in another language (eg. - eros, agape, philos = English "love"
Re: [TruthTalk] Does it REALLY matter that much?
We should take a stand on the issue of translations. I am not saying to shrug and remain unpartial. But to question someone's salvation over the topic is taking it pretty far, don't you think? I think the NIV is a horrible translation, but I do not crusade for the KJV at all the Bible Studies I attend. It should not be a stumbling block. Also, another thing I have noticed is that younger Christians tend to read the NIV, and usually grow out of it because it is a poor translation.. Do you think I should be more emphatic about this issue, Dean?Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: cd: And what if the other versions are notcomplete and have actually removed some of the word of Christ-How do you view that Christine? Should one get bent out of shape over that? - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 11/21/2005 12:40:50 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Does it REALLY matter that much?Hello Pete! I think you bring up excellent points, and I agree with your position that while the KJV is the best translation, it is harmful to get "bent out of shape" over the issue. I am taking an introductory course to Islam right now, and I thought I would point out that the Quran has been kept in the same Arabic throughout the ages. The Quran has been translated into other languages, but Muslims do not consider those the word of God, and all Muslims must learn Arabic so that they can read the Quran in its original language. The result is awful. They worship the book: you have to handle it with a certain hand, if you are not a Muslim you cannot touch it, if you are Muslim, you must wash before touching it lest you desecrate it. In public forums, Muslims will boast that their book has been unchanged, and is therefore perfect, and I wonder if this fact has contributed to leading these people further into idolotry of the book itself (aside from the fact that they fo llow false gods: that would also contribute to the idolotry). I think this just goes to show you not to get so consumed with the physical aspects of spiritual matters.This Islam stuff is something else.Blessings!Christine Peter Krostag [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Brothers and Sisters in Christ do you have an answer for Daves question as to why we allow our Bibles to remove God's words with no objections and cut Smith to pieces for doing the same thing???Pete responds: We really didnt ALLOW this to happen. It just did. JAs far as translations are concerned, from what I have read, I think that the KJV is probably the closest to the original in most cases. Thats just me though. My preference is the KJV; but some verses, IMHO, read better in different versions. Do I make a big deal about? No, because I have seen one of my good friends get real bent out of shape about it. It got so bad, that he almost accused me of not being saved because I didnt agree with him. He also told me that the NIV would be used by the New Age people to deceive people in the last days. He has separated himself from other Christians because of his belief about the KJV. When it becomes divisive that Christians cant even come together and fellowship, then something is wrong. I know people who love God and dont read the KJV exclusively.When I was born again, I read through the NIV New Testament. I learned a lot and was growing in the Lord with that version. I eventually got a Thompson Chain reference because it was recommended by a good friend. I eventually got used to the KJV, but today, I like the NKJV and KJV, but sometimes I like to read the Amplified Version because the wording is picturesque. Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
Re: [TruthTalk] Islam is based on Law
Actually Judy, I find it fascinating to see the commonalities Islam shares with Mormonism. Both say the same thing about authority: it went well for a little while, but then they dropped the ball. They are both consumed with good works. And you brought up another: the likeness of the "revelations." I guess man-made religions will always resemble one another.Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Pete, Do the ones teaching these courses consider the fact that Islam is based on a false revelation given to Mohammad in a desert cave by an "angel of light" which is similar to the way Joseph Smith received his revelation prior to translating and penning the Book of Mormon. Neither know anything about God or His will, they are walking in deception after havingbeen deceived. On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 05:59:45 -0600 "Peter Krostag" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hey Christine.Good to hear from you! You certainly are on the right track here. I took a course on Islam taught by someone who lived in the Middle East. As you are finding out, it is primarily based on works and not faith. Islamic law has been seen as the blueprint to guiding Muslims' correct action, that is, what to do in their public and private lives in order to realize God's will. Sufism try to experience a more direct and personal sense of God. Sensing God and knowing Him are two completely different things.Pete judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
Re: [TruthTalk] Real Christians behave like Christians
Amen, Dean! I thought you spoke very well on the subject. And what is un-Christian about preaching Christ?? JD or Lance? Did you find find his preaching offensive? Am I just desensitized to preachers? :-)Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is interesting ... The anti-Christian site is obeying the will of their father with a false scenario. Why are the girls in black out there singing? They certainly don't look rehearsed or even focused and in the past I have been told that their sole purpose was to drown out the street preachers. The choice Dean presents here is exactly right. Truth vs error, light vs darkness, and life as opposed to death. All of us must choose this day we we will serve Kevin Deegan wrote: Dean is FEATURED on this ANTI-CHRISTIAN site. What EXACTLY is he saying that is wrong here?http://www.fairlds.org/pubs/media/street03bh.wmv Allen L. Wyatt, "Anti-Mormon Protesters at the April 2003 LDS General Conference," (Mesa, Arizona: FAIR, April 2003) In this short video clip, an anti-Mormon protester at the April 2003 General Conference shouts his opinions about the Book of Mormon, drowning out nearby missionaries trying to sing hymns. Another protester waves temple garments at passersby. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
Re: [TruthTalk] Emailing: NIV.htm
Title: Evaluating the New International Version Thanks for the input, Lance. It is always good to hear some thoughtful discourse on the different translations. Am I correct in understanding that you object to my statement that the KJV is the "best" translation? Do you mind if I ask why? Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Evaluating the New International VersionBefore we look at any of the "modern" Bible translations, it is important to understand some important concepts principles of linguistics and translation. Important Concepts in Bible Translation Before we begin looking at various Bible translations, there are some important concepts and principles that we need to consider and understand. Limits of Language When we talk about translation, we must first realize that any translation from one language to another has limits. All languages are not arranged in the same way. In fact, most languages are arranged differently. Grammar: Each language has its own grammatical rules. We cannot try to apply the grammar rules of one language to another directly. In the work of translating, the grammatical rules of each language must be respected. Semantic Range: The meaning of words in one language may not have the same range of meaning in another language (eg. - eros, agape, philos = English "love") Syntax: Syntax refers to the structure of phrases. Each language has a different way of putting sentences together. Some have verbs first and nouns second. Some have the adjective before a noun while others place the adjectives after the noun. Literal (verbal consistency) Some translations choose to translate the words of the original language directly. The responsibility is therefore on the reader to check out the meaning of the original word themselves. Whether it is a form of measurement or an archaic word, those who prefer to translate literally or word-for-word keep the exact word of the text. Idiomatic An idiomatic translation attempts to make the meaning of the passage clear, not just give a word-perfect translation. The idea here is that rather than make you find out what how big a "cubit" is, the translators give a modern measurement such as "feet" so that the reader understands the meaning. The translators do the background research into the ancient forms of measurement and provide a conversion rate that is mathematically equivalent. This can not only take place in relation to measurements and the like, but also can apply to concepts. An idiomatic translation uses a dynamic (or idiomatic) equivalent. Note: We never want to sacrifice historical accuracy (fidelity) for idiomatic _expression_. For example, just because everyone might not have an understanding of where Ephesus is located on a map, doesnt mean we change this word to an equivalent like "Edmonton." Dynamic equivalents are only useful when they do not change the accuracy of the passage. Our translations must not add or delete anything from the original meaning just for the sake of idioms. Your choice of literal vs. idiomatic is truly up to you in choosing a translation. Neither method is right or wrong. It really is a matter of preference. Some of you will prefer to do the research yourselves and keep the literal translation. Others of you may figure that your time can be better spent studying the text rather than researching the dynamic equivalent. There are various reasons one may choose an idiomatic or literal translation. Here are some: 1. Easy reading there are some place where a literal translation is quite easy to read and other places where a literal reading is almost non-sense because we do not understand the meaning of the words (the words havent been used for 400 years). Example: Matthew 3:15"Thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness." OR"We do well to conform in this way with all that God requires." 2. Easy understanding the main reason that a dynamic equivalent would be used is to make the meaning more clear. Again, rather than the reader having to try to interpret the image, the translators have converted the word to a modern equivalent that the reader can understand. Example: 1 Chronicles 26:18"...and for the parbar on the west there were four at the road and two at the parbar.""As for the court to the west, there were four [guards] at the road and two at the court itself." 3. Evangelistic Most of our Bibles have "theological" terminology in them. Of course, thats no surprise. The Bible is a book about theology. However, for the non-Christian, terms like "justification" may not mean a whole lot until they have had time to be taught the doctrines of the faith. Some translations are written specifically so that unchurched people can read and understand them, and so they use more idiomatic language rather than literal. Example: Matthew 3:8"Bear fruit that befits
RE: [TruthTalk] UF update
The school newspaper does a poor job telling the story: they did not even speak to my father, but seemed to quote him quite a bit. One part they left out was that my father begged the girl to give the sign back before calling the cops. She responded by running away faster. When he brought up the police, she responded with something like, "Good. I'll call the police." When he did call the police, she was absolutely shocked to be put in handcuffs. She really thought she was doing the right thing by stealing my father's sign. This really goes to show you the moral decay of UF's campus. She couldn't understand that she was stealing, and that stealing is wrong. Blessings! ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Way to go David :-) iz-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David MillerSent: Monday, November 21, 2005 8:59 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [TruthTalk] UF updateLast Friday's preach:http://www.alligator.org/pt2/051121cops.phpPeace be with you.David Miller--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may knowhow you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have afriend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
Re: [TruthTalk] Does it REALLY matter that much?
Hello Pete! I think you bring up excellent points, and I agree with your position that while the KJV is the best translation, it is harmful to get "bent out of shape" over the issue. I am taking an introductory course to Islam right now, and I thought I would point out that the Quran has been kept in the same Arabic throughout the ages. The Quran has been translated into other languages, but Muslims do not consider those the word of God, and all Muslims must learn Arabic so that they can read the Quran in its original language. The result is awful. They worship the book: you have to handle it with a certain hand, if you are not a Muslim you cannot touch it, if you are Muslim, you must wash before touching it lest you desecrate it. In public forums, Muslims will boast that their book has been unchanged, and is therefore perfect, and I wonder if this fact has contributed to leading these people further into idolotry of the book itself (aside from the fact that they follow false gods: that would also contribute to the idolotry). I think this just goes to show you not to get so consumed with the physical aspects of spiritual matters.This Islam stuff is something else. Blessings!Christine Peter Krostag [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Brothers and Sisters in Christ do you have an answer for Daves question as to why we allow our Bibles to remove God's words with no objections and cut Smith to pieces for doing the same thing???Pete responds: We really didnt ALLOW this to happen. It just did. JAs far as translations are concerned, from what I have read, I think that the KJV is probably the closest to the original in most cases. Thats just me though. My preference is the KJV; but some verses, IMHO, read better in different versions. Do I make a big deal about? No, because I have seen one of my good friends get real bent out of shape about it. It got so bad, that he almost accused me of not being saved because I didnt agree with him. He also told me that the NIV would be used by the New Age people to deceive people in the last days. He has separated himself from other Christians because of his belief about the KJV. When it becomes divisive that Christians cant even come together and fellowship, then something is wrong. I know people who love God and dont read the KJV exclusively.When I was born again, I read through the NIV New Testament. I learned a lot and was growing in the Lord with that version. I eventually got a Thompson Chain reference because it was recommended by a good friend. I eventually got used to the KJV, but today, I like the NKJV and KJV, but sometimes I like to read the Amplified Version because the wording is picturesque. Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
Re: [TruthTalk] Flat Tax?
LOLDave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DAVEH: Wow G.You've twice responded to your own post. I think that is a TT record!.must be getting cabin fever up there in the Colorado mountains, eh! =-O [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ..polite but perceptive Protestants are somewhat intuitive like this, aren't they?On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 20:09:18 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..the intuitive cat doesn't appreciate you petting your daughter?On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 18:16:42 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: her's is a Protestant cat?On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 14:21:11 -0800 Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DAVEH: I don't think Izzy would appreciate my soothing her any more our daughter's cat appreciates my petting her![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (maybe you cansoothe herin her suffering, another one of your Christian concepts she'll be able toappreciate:)On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 23:19:35 -0800 Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DAVEH: Thank you for saying that, g.Though I am not sure Izzy will appreciate you[r] comment.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: true; i don't think like[Izzy] andDaveH do|| Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
RE: [TruthTalk] Why I'm absent for awhile...
Thank you for your encouragement, Izzy! The editorial board of the school newspaper here do not share your sentiments, however:Rampant hate: http://www.alligator.org/pt2/051115eddy.phpLord bless you! ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: YOU GO GIRL!!! izzySomething else the article did not report. Christine was there when I was preaching and witnessed the whole incident.While I was sitting in an empty police car for 30 minutes, Christineresponded by immediatelypreaching herself! She carried the torch until I returned. Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
Re: [TruthTalk] What counsel would you offer?
I was reading 1 Corinthians 7, not particularly thinking of this topic, but I read this about circumcision: 1 Cor. 7:18 - Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? Let him not be circumcised. And then verse 19 says how circumsision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments. I was wondering: does this verse apply to this situation at all? If the two were unsaved when they were divorced and then remarried, and then get saved while in this second relationship, it doesn't sound right to divorce again, just as someone circumsised should not be uncircumsised after coming to Christ. Why not accept forgiveness and begin to walk afresh? And I have a question: does King David's example apply to this situation? Or was that different? What do you all think? This is a difficult issue. Blessings! --- Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I see it, there can be no forgivness without turning from the sin that needs to be forgiven. That means that they cannot stay in that relationship and have a relationship with the Lord. The normal reaction here is to say Consider the others that will be hurt, and there is nothing wrong with considering the feelings of others, but Jesus says you have to love Him so much, that by comparison, the love you have for spouse and children and self seems so inferior to your love for Christ that love for family seems more like hate. Christ is the Alpha and Omega, beginning to end, start to finish. What He wants comes first. Self and family come second. If He wants you to turn from your adultery, then you turn from your adultery, no matter what the cost. By now, someone is saying, I know God better than that! He is love'. All I can tell those folks is to read Ezra 10:10 to the end of the chapter. You will see a story of men who had also married women that they should not have married, and how they corrected the situation. Even when it is painful, God does not comprmise with the Devil. Terry = ShieldsFamily wrote: Other than sackcloth and ashes, what form should their repentance take? They have never apologized to their ex-spouses for destroying their families, and still speak evil of them at every opportunity. It seems like a hopeless situation, but surely God could help them repent. If they did truly repent, would God call them to separate? There are indeed so many couples in the church today that remain in marriages that are, in fact, adulteries. But if they truly repent must they also be single the rest of their lives? And what about anyone who ever had sexual relations prior to their current marriage? And, as DM said, Torah forbids reuniting with an unclean spouse. It's a difficult situation. iz *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Terry Clifton *Sent:* Sunday, November 06, 2005 9:23 AM *To:* TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org *Subject:* Re: [TruthTalk] What counsel would you offer? Mornin' Iz. As I see it, these two are lying to themselves. To repent means to turn and go in another direction. When Jesus, Peter, Paul, John and others called sinners to repentance, they were calling for a 180 turn, from sin, to Christ. From living for self, to living for Him. These people, if they still have sexual relations, are still in adultery and still in their sins, still living for self. There is no forgivness that allows continual living in rebellion to God's commands. My advice would be for them to get out the sack cloth and ashes. You will not hear this much from the pulpit these days. The pastor who preaches this will be gone and the adulterers will still be a substantial part of the congregation. Terry ShieldsFamily wrote: Okay, add to Terry's original scenario the fact that the couple that realized that they were living in adultery had actually been Christians prior to their adultery with each other. They then each divorced their spouses because they were in love. They now have a child between them, as well as their children from their previous marriages. But now they claim that they have repented and are forgiven. What is your advice to them? izzy -Original Message- From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org mailto:TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 13:08:55 -0600 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] What counsel would you offer? Both you and JD
Re: [TruthTalk] [Fwd: Telegraph News Prince Charles to plead Islam's cause to Bush]
Looks like Prince Charles has already pled Islam's case in Australia: Police are told: In incidents such as domestic violence, police need to have an understanding of the traditions, ways of life and habits of Muslims. They are told it would be appreciated in cases of domestic violence if police consult the local Muslim religious leader who will work against fragmenting the family unit. http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/printpage/0,5481,17026063,00.html Blessings! -Original Message- From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 19:29:45 -0500 Subject: [TruthTalk] [Fwd: Telegraph News Prince Charles to plead Islam's cause to Bush] Get out you story about the girls being murdered and sent it to this idiot, John http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/10/30/nchas30.xmlsSheet=/portal/2005/10/30/ixportaltop.html __ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] [Fwd: Telegraph News Prince Charles to plead Islam's cause to Bush]
Hello big brother :-), You know, if the Prince's country had been attacked by Muslims I bet he wouldn't be... oh wait. It is so unfortunate to hear that about England. The Holocaust has taught us something about this matter: if someone tells you they're going to kill you, believe them. Blessings! --- Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: cd: Hello little sister-We were in England a couple of years ago street preaching and the Islamic people ruled the streets there. They used banners to promote their religion and when we tried to use them the police ordered us to stop.They are known to beat Christians in England and the police do nothing.I think they are afraid of the Moslems. [Original Message] From: Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Date: 10/30/2005 12:02:06 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] [Fwd: Telegraph News Prince Charles to plead Islam's cause to Bush] Looks like Prince Charles has already pled Islam's case in Australia: Police are told: In incidents such as domestic violence, police need to have an understanding of the traditions, ways of life and habits of Muslims. They are told it would be appreciated in cases of domestic violence if police consult the local Muslim religious leader who will work against fragmenting the family unit. http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/printpage/0,5481,17026063,00.html Blessings! -Original Message- From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 19:29:45 -0500 Subject: [TruthTalk] [Fwd: Telegraph News Prince Charles to plead Islam's cause to Bush] Get out you story about the girls being murdered and sent it to this idiot, John http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/10/30/nchas30.xml; sSheet=/portal/2005/10/30/ixportaltop.html __ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. __ Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] [Fwd: Telegraph News Prince Charles to plead Islam's cause to Bush]
Amen! Pressed but not crushed, Christine --- Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello again little sister:-) What I did find interesting while in the UK was that older (grandma's) people mocked us-but here it is mostly young people that show that much disrespect-this has lead me to believe that we are only 1 generation behind the UK in corruption. Our time grows short -keep the faith as we must endure till the end and not deny Christ no matter what. [Original Message] From: Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Date: 10/30/2005 6:50:18 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] [Fwd: Telegraph News Prince Charles to plead Islam's cause to Bush] Hello big brother :-), You know, if the Prince's country had been attacked by Muslims I bet he wouldn't be... oh wait. It is so unfortunate to hear that about England. The Holocaust has taught us something about this matter: if someone tells you they're going to kill you, believe them. Blessings! --- Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: cd: Hello little sister-We were in England a couple of years ago street preaching and the Islamic people ruled the streets there. They used banners to promote their religion and when we tried to use them the police ordered us to stop.They are known to beat Christians in England and the police do nothing.I think they are afraid of the Moslems. [Original Message] From: Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Date: 10/30/2005 12:02:06 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] [Fwd: Telegraph News Prince Charles to plead Islam's cause to Bush] Looks like Prince Charles has already pled Islam's case in Australia: Police are told: In incidents such as domestic violence, police need to have an understanding of the traditions, ways of life and habits of Muslims. They are told it would be appreciated in cases of domestic violence if police consult the local Muslim religious leader who will work against fragmenting the family unit. http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/printpage/0,5481,17026063,00.html Blessings! -Original Message- From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 19:29:45 -0500 Subject: [TruthTalk] [Fwd: Telegraph News Prince Charles to plead Islam's cause to Bush] Get out you story about the girls being murdered and sent it to this idiot, John http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/10/30/nchas30.xml; sSheet=/portal/2005/10/30/ixportaltop.html __ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. __ Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] === message truncated === __ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel
Re: [TruthTalk] [Fwd: Telegraph News Prince Charles to plead Islam's cause to Bush]
JD wrote: [The prodigal son] He was never corrected by
his father.
As I understand it, correction is designed to direct
one to true repentance. Since the prodigal son
returned home, repenting. There's no need to punish
one already truly repentant. Wouldn't you say that
wrong track and his manner of living were sinful
and not just mistaken?
Blessings
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sin can be and is considered in various ways within
scripture. Under the law -- we are all
transgressors. But there are differing kinds of
sin. Some of it rebellious. Some out of
ignorance. There is the sin of omission. We have
those sins that speak directly to our character as
persons. The prodigal son is one who made a series
of mistakes. He was not forbidden from leaving.
He was never corrected by his father. But his
manner of living , in the end, convinced him that he
was on the wrong track. Under the Law - which no
longer applies to us - there was a sin offering
and a tresspass offering. Apparently, one for
specific sin and the other for a more general view
of sin.
JD
-Original Message-
From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 15:42:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] [Fwd: Telegraph News Prince
Charles to plead Islam's cause to Bush]
Sin is a wrong choice or a mistake, is it not?
Is this a wrong choice or a MISTAKE?
sin is the TRANSGRESSION of the law
The Bible calls it TRANSGRESSION - men call it an
OOPS!
Men think, Surely God will wink at that mistake.
Is this just a mistake or wrong choice?
Jm 2 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit
sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Do mistakes always bring forth DEATH?
For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins,
which were by the law, did work in our members to
bring forth fruit unto death.
Rm 6 For the wages of sin is death
Do you REPROVE folks when they just make mistakes?
And when he is come, he will reprove the world of
sin
Can one be a SLAVE to a mistake?
For when ye were the servants of sin
Do mistakes take up residence in your body?
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body
Do mistakes OFFEND? One mistake makes one guilty of
all?
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet
offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Don't Minimize SIN
SIN KILLS!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am not sure I see the point. Sin is a
translation of a Greek word. Sin is a wrong
choice or a mistake, is it not?
Just for the record -- I was not calling Charles
an idiot. I was trying to figure out who the
idiot was in the post in question. But, I must
admit, if it had to be him or me, I am glad it
was him !!!
JD
-Original Message-
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 06:56:13 -0600
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] [Fwd: Telegraph News Prince
Charles to plead Islam's cause to Bush]
Ever notice that instead of using the word Sin
today, the politically correct term is mistake or
wrong choices? iz
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Terry Clifton
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 6:43 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] [Fwd: Telegraph News Prince
Charles to plead Islam's cause to Bush]
Bingo! You got it. You are not the idiot. Prince
Charles is. He seems to have an uncanny ability to
make the wrong choices.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Who is the prince and who is calling me an idiot?
I am not following. The correct response to the
story I posted is something along the lines of
Geee, that's too bad for these girls.how can
there be any controversy over this story? The URL
addresses listed below give no information. Aaaahhh
-- wait a minute. Your subject line -- does
that have anything to do with the url addresses?
The idiot is Prince Charles ??!!! Amazing -- I
got all that from the subject line, if correct. Am
I on the right track, here.
The sad thing about Islam is this -- perhaps 60 %
of them {world wide]are non-violent but I would
bet that nearly 100% would side with the killers if
push came to shove. Their holy men and
congregations have done virtually nothing to counter
that claim since years before 9-11. Whether
motivated by fear of their own people or not, I
could not care less. All that is necessary for
evil to triumph is . a statement that
most certainly applies to the peaceful among the
Muslims.
Have you forgotten, the day the towers fell,
friends were there, going through a living hell.
John
-Original Message-
From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 22:15:50 -0500
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] [Fwd: Telegraph News Prince
Charles to plead Islam's
Re: [TruthTalk]
Lord bless you, Judy. I pray the Lord blesses the time you will be spending with your family. My condolences for your loss. --- Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi TT'ers, Does anyone know if DavidM made it through Wilma OK? I saw some TV ppl in Hollywood and it looked a bit messy to me. If you don't hear from me for a while it's because we are having to take another trip to OZ. My mother passed away yesterday there (today here) just two months short of her 100th birthday. I talked with her on Sat night - she had a throat virus but was alert enough to lecture me about the war in Iraq and how thick John Howard and George W. are still. She could even tell me George W's popularity rating accurately and for the first time she spoke to me about death in a personal way, always before it had been to do with her stuff but this time she said she had been thinking about it and that she wasn't afraid to die. Apparently she went peacefully in her sleep at a Palliative Care place they had taken her to because of the other problem; she was only there overnight. The Lord is good. Our family will probably leave on Monday for the funeral which is November 3rd. Behave yourselves while I'm gone, no more fussing now TTYL Judyt -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. __ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] On knowing the Father through the Son by the Spirit
I will try to have better sytax in the future, so as to keep you from any evil surmisings, JD. :-) --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is this really 'Christine? A curious statement .. apparently I have not been posting recently ... H. Jd -Original Message- From: Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 17:10:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] On knowing the Father through the Son by the Spirit Lance wrote: So David, you believe my observation to be FALSE!?? IFF you do not then say so. David wrote: The truth is that some here have NEVER mishandled the sacred text. (I added the caps) Hello, apparently I have not been posting recently, only lurking. But I could not resist helping clarify a matter here, Lance. My father did say so. :-) Blessings, Christine --- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So David, you believe my observation to be FALSE!?? IFF you do not then say so. Put up or shut up! Opinion shminion. If I speak the truth on a matter and, you believe it to be so then, speak up. This is beneath you. Petty, petty, petty. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: October 14, 2005 10:05 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] On knowing the Father through the Son by the Spirit Lance wrote: Not one participant has proved themselves an exception to the occasional mishandling of the text soo thenwhy so defensive? I don't know anybody being defensive. We have simply asked you to explain the standard by which you can judge this. You have given us none, so, we simply recognize that you have no standard but yourself. Since your standard is faulty, by your own admission, as Kevin has so rightly analyzed the situation, your opinion should be ignored. The truth is that some here have never mishandled the sacred text. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. __ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] On knowing the Father through the Son by the Spirit
What a disappointing response, Lance. I hope you pray about the importance of faith in knowing the mind of God. BTW, it is not by works that I abstain from the destructive things of the world. It is by the Holy Spirit in my life. If He is your best friend, closer than a brother, how could you speak of Him as such an ineffectual force? My parents are my best friends in the world, and I would not say THEIR influence on me is as weak as you make the Holy Spirit's influence out to be. Their influence on me is so strong because I ALLOW them to have strong influence. Equally, by faith, I give the Lord the greatest influence over me. I submit by simple faith. I am truly, truly sorry that you do not understand this. Blessings PS- I will be signing off very soon, I have a Calculus exam on Monday. But it was great to speak with you all again. I will continue to lurk, however. :-) Lord bless you all, dear brothers and sisters. Keep fighting the good fight! --- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello again, Christine. Thanks for delineating your position, your Dad's position and, I'd suppose one held by many. Whatever 'works' for ya, guys. - Original Message - From: Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: October 14, 2005 21:31 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] On knowing the Father through the Son by the Spirit Lance wrote: Humanity and fallibility, even with the indwelling of the HS, guarantee the mishandling of the Scriptures on occasion. Lance, this is a statement devoid of faith. Trust the Most High God. If He says He will teach you, and lead you into all truth, that is a powerful I.O.U.. I think He's good for it. It's like Treasury stock. You know it's a reliable investment. (I'm taking my first accounting class this semester, lol). That sentence is almost an irrational statement. It's like me being scared to death I'm going to get AIDS, even though I don't do anything to put me at risk. Equally, God told me He wants me to know His mind. I know it's possible to be weak and not know Him or understand His word, but He's given me the means to know and understand Him, just as I have the means to avoid AIDS (by the godly wisdom of remaining chaste and abstaining from drugs). When we lean not onto our own understanding, but trust him with all our heart, he will direct our path. To fret about the obstacles in our path is an irrational fear, because, well, He's God. That's a very lofty title, but He bears it well. It's foolish and worthless for me to worry about AIDS, when God's Holy Spirit and wisdom protects me from such things. Yes, it exists, just as our human weakness does, but He has provided the remedy: the Holy Spirit. Don't sell it so short, Lance. Blessings! --- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You could be no clearer than that, David. Please identify the one(s) who have NEVER mishandled the Scriptures on TT. (dfn:to deal with something without the necessary care or skill). Do remember, won't you, that this conversation included misunderstanding and misinterpretation. Humanity and fallibility, even with the indwelling of the HS, guarantee the mishandling of the Scriptures on occasion. . - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: October 14, 2005 12:44 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] On knowing the Father through the Son by the Spirit Lance wrote: So David, you believe my observation to be FALSE!?? IFF you do not then say so. Yes, Lance, I believe your observation to be false. I have been saying so many times. It sure has taken you a long time to see this. Lance wrote: Put up or shut up! Opinion shminion. If I speak the truth on a matter and, you believe it to be so then, speak up. This is beneath you. Petty, petty, petty. Who's getting defensive now? Isn't it amazing how you see others as being defensive, just before you blow a gasket. You have made the assertion that everybody on TruthTalk has at times mishandled the Scriptures. I can find no basis for this assertion. I don't believe it. I disagree with it. Clear enough? DM. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: October 14, 2005 10:05 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] On knowing the Father through the Son by the Spirit Lance wrote: Not one participant has proved themselves an exception to the occasional mishandling of the text soo thenwhy so defensive? I don't know anybody being defensive. We have simply asked you to explain the standard by which you can judge this. You have given us none, so, we simply recognize that you have no standard but yourself. Since your
Re: [TruthTalk] On knowing the Father through the Son by the Spirit
Lance wrote: So David, you believe my observation to be FALSE!?? IFF you do not then say so. David wrote: The truth is that some here have NEVER mishandled the sacred text. (I added the caps) Hello, apparently I have not been posting recently, only lurking. But I could not resist helping clarify a matter here, Lance. My father did say so. :-) Blessings, Christine --- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So David, you believe my observation to be FALSE!?? IFF you do not then say so. Put up or shut up! Opinion shminion. If I speak the truth on a matter and, you believe it to be so then, speak up. This is beneath you. Petty, petty, petty. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: October 14, 2005 10:05 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] On knowing the Father through the Son by the Spirit Lance wrote: Not one participant has proved themselves an exception to the occasional mishandling of the text soo thenwhy so defensive? I don't know anybody being defensive. We have simply asked you to explain the standard by which you can judge this. You have given us none, so, we simply recognize that you have no standard but yourself. Since your standard is faulty, by your own admission, as Kevin has so rightly analyzed the situation, your opinion should be ignored. The truth is that some here have never mishandled the sacred text. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. __ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] On knowing the Father through the Son by the Spirit
lol! --- ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: WWJD??? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 10:59 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] On knowing the Father through the Son by the Spirit Kathryn Hepburn in On Golden Pond' called almost everyone a 'poop'. I found it most endearing. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: October 14, 2005 12:39 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] On knowing the Father through the Son by the Spirit I did NOT call John stupid. In contrast, however, John did call me dishonest. He also called me a poop. I guess that is ok in your book. DM. - Original Message - From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] On knowing the Father through the Son by the Spirit David, along with a sneaky qualifier, just called John stupid. David, IMO, is quite capable of speaking to others in a demeaning fashion. (those of us with discernment take note of such). - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: October 14, 2005 11:33 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] On knowing the Father through the Son by the Spirit Lance, please stop telling others to shut up. It is not becoming. iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 9:07 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] On knowing the Father through the Son by the Spirit So David, you believe my observation to be FALSE!?? IFF you do not then say so. Put up or shut up! Opinion shminion. If I speak the truth on a matter and, you believe it to be so then, speak up. This is beneath you. Petty, petty, petty. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: October 14, 2005 10:05 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] On knowing the Father through the Son by the Spirit Lance wrote: Not one participant has proved themselves an exception to the occasional mishandling of the text soo thenwhy so defensive? I don't know anybody being defensive. We have simply asked you to explain the standard by which you can judge this. You have given us none, so, we simply recognize that you have no standard but yourself. Since your standard is faulty, by your own admission, as Kevin has so rightly analyzed the situation, your opinion should be ignored. The truth is that some here have never mishandled the sacred text. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
Re: [TruthTalk] On knowing the Father through the Son by the Spirit
Lance wrote: Humanity and fallibility, even with the indwelling of the HS, guarantee the mishandling of the Scriptures on occasion. Lance, this is a statement devoid of faith. Trust the Most High God. If He says He will teach you, and lead you into all truth, that is a powerful I.O.U.. I think He's good for it. It's like Treasury stock. You know it's a reliable investment. (I'm taking my first accounting class this semester, lol). That sentence is almost an irrational statement. It's like me being scared to death I'm going to get AIDS, even though I don't do anything to put me at risk. Equally, God told me He wants me to know His mind. I know it's possible to be weak and not know Him or understand His word, but He's given me the means to know and understand Him, just as I have the means to avoid AIDS (by the godly wisdom of remaining chaste and abstaining from drugs). When we lean not onto our own understanding, but trust him with all our heart, he will direct our path. To fret about the obstacles in our path is an irrational fear, because, well, He's God. That's a very lofty title, but He bears it well. It's foolish and worthless for me to worry about AIDS, when God's Holy Spirit and wisdom protects me from such things. Yes, it exists, just as our human weakness does, but He has provided the remedy: the Holy Spirit. Don't sell it so short, Lance. Blessings! --- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You could be no clearer than that, David. Please identify the one(s) who have NEVER mishandled the Scriptures on TT. (dfn:to deal with something without the necessary care or skill). Do remember, won't you, that this conversation included misunderstanding and misinterpretation. Humanity and fallibility, even with the indwelling of the HS, guarantee the mishandling of the Scriptures on occasion. . - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: October 14, 2005 12:44 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] On knowing the Father through the Son by the Spirit Lance wrote: So David, you believe my observation to be FALSE!?? IFF you do not then say so. Yes, Lance, I believe your observation to be false. I have been saying so many times. It sure has taken you a long time to see this. Lance wrote: Put up or shut up! Opinion shminion. If I speak the truth on a matter and, you believe it to be so then, speak up. This is beneath you. Petty, petty, petty. Who's getting defensive now? Isn't it amazing how you see others as being defensive, just before you blow a gasket. You have made the assertion that everybody on TruthTalk has at times mishandled the Scriptures. I can find no basis for this assertion. I don't believe it. I disagree with it. Clear enough? DM. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: October 14, 2005 10:05 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] On knowing the Father through the Son by the Spirit Lance wrote: Not one participant has proved themselves an exception to the occasional mishandling of the text soo thenwhy so defensive? I don't know anybody being defensive. We have simply asked you to explain the standard by which you can judge this. You have given us none, so, we simply recognize that you have no standard but yourself. Since your standard is faulty, by your own admission, as Kevin has so rightly analyzed the situation, your opinion should be ignored. The truth is that some here have never mishandled the sacred text. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him
Re: [TruthTalk] On playing chess On reading/interpreting the Scriptures for living (not for 'A' living)
Lance wrote: 'Irony is wasted on the stupid' would be an example of sarcasm. Insults and scorn comprise the heart of sarcasm. Do you and your Dad employ such during 'public' preaching? It's often dangerous to do with you, Lance, but I'm going to answer your comment here seriously. It is easy to respond to the crowd's aggression with more aggression (or bitter retorts), but to do so would not be a good witness. On my first experiences on the street, I found myself feeling controversial and combatant, and checked myself. Since then I have learned to interact with angry and bitter crowds in a spirit of meekness and paitience. My father serves as an example to me in this. I have never seen him fail to exhibit any of the fruits of the spirit while preaching. Lance wrote: PS:Ouch! Did you attend 'Grade Saver' for a summary of 'A Separate Peace'? No, I have read the book several times. I was once very much a literary junkie. In high school I was on the academic team, in charge of any literature questions. My natural aptitudes and tastes are contrary to my father's in that way. I guess he wasn't able to 'train' me out of my right-brained tendencies. :-) Blessings --- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What makes me think that you rarely keep things like this to yourself, Christine? As I said in a different post, Christine, your Dad seems to have 'trained' his family well. I suppose he's to be commended for that, anyway. 'Irony is wasted on the stupid' would be an example of sarcasm. Insults and scorn comprise the heart of sarcasm. Do you and your Dad employ such during 'public' preaching? The person your dad is at home may be different than the person who posts on TT. Let's hope so. PS:Ouch! Did you attend 'Grade Saver' for a summary of 'A Separate Peace'? - Original Message - From: Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: July 13, 2005 15:10 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] On playing chess On reading/interpreting the Scriptures for living (not for 'A' living) Lance wrote: Contradicted? If this were an exercise in logic then, OK. But, it is an exercise in humour so, no. I normally keep thoughts like these to myself, but I thought you would appriciate this, Lance. It was John Knowles in A Seperate Peace that said, Sarcasm is the protest of the weak. Blessings --- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Contradicted? If this were an exercise in logic then, OK. But, it is an exercise in humour so, no. You keep tryin' ta weasle out of this, David. It's the people who agree with me (you) thingy that you don't seem prepared to acknowledge. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: July 13, 2005 11:14 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] On playing chess On reading/interpreting the Scriptures for living (not for 'A' living) Lance wrote: a. I read TT b. Jesus isn't 'mentoring' anyone I know David. Perhaps He is not even mentoring you. Jesus does mentor people, but I understand how you do not recognize that. Lance wrote: Do you fail to note the excessively conflicting conundra appearing daily on TT? Each is, as you put it, mentored by Jesus.(I'll let God speak for the Mormons) How can you say that Jesus isn't mentoring anyone you know, then turn around here and say that each on TT is mentored by Jesus? You just contradicted yourself. The conflicting conundra you mention exists because some are mentored by Christ through the Spirit of God and some are not. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6
Re: [TruthTalk] On playing chess On reading/interpreting the Scriptures for living (not for 'A' living)
No, not particularly. --- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does that include an interest in film also? - Original Message - From: Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: July 14, 2005 10:07 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] On playing chess On reading/interpreting the Scriptures for living (not for 'A' living) Lance wrote: 'Irony is wasted on the stupid' would be an example of sarcasm. Insults and scorn comprise the heart of sarcasm. Do you and your Dad employ such during 'public' preaching? It's often dangerous to do with you, Lance, but I'm going to answer your comment here seriously. It is easy to respond to the crowd's aggression with more aggression (or bitter retorts), but to do so would not be a good witness. On my first experiences on the street, I found myself feeling controversial and combatant, and checked myself. Since then I have learned to interact with angry and bitter crowds in a spirit of meekness and paitience. My father serves as an example to me in this. I have never seen him fail to exhibit any of the fruits of the spirit while preaching. Lance wrote: PS:Ouch! Did you attend 'Grade Saver' for a summary of 'A Separate Peace'? No, I have read the book several times. I was once very much a literary junkie. In high school I was on the academic team, in charge of any literature questions. My natural aptitudes and tastes are contrary to my father's in that way. I guess he wasn't able to 'train' me out of my right-brained tendencies. :-) Blessings --- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What makes me think that you rarely keep things like this to yourself, Christine? As I said in a different post, Christine, your Dad seems to have 'trained' his family well. I suppose he's to be commended for that, anyway. 'Irony is wasted on the stupid' would be an example of sarcasm. Insults and scorn comprise the heart of sarcasm. Do you and your Dad employ such during 'public' preaching? The person your dad is at home may be different than the person who posts on TT. Let's hope so. PS:Ouch! Did you attend 'Grade Saver' for a summary of 'A Separate Peace'? - Original Message - From: Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: July 13, 2005 15:10 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] On playing chess On reading/interpreting the Scriptures for living (not for 'A' living) Lance wrote: Contradicted? If this were an exercise in logic then, OK. But, it is an exercise in humour so, no. I normally keep thoughts like these to myself, but I thought you would appriciate this, Lance. It was John Knowles in A Seperate Peace that said, Sarcasm is the protest of the weak. Blessings --- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Contradicted? If this were an exercise in logic then, OK. But, it is an exercise in humour so, no. You keep tryin' ta weasle out of this, David. It's the people who agree with me (you) thingy that you don't seem prepared to acknowledge. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: July 13, 2005 11:14 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] On playing chess On reading/interpreting the Scriptures for living (not for 'A' living) Lance wrote: a. I read TT b. Jesus isn't 'mentoring' anyone I know David. Perhaps He is not even mentoring you. Jesus does mentor people, but I understand how you do not recognize that. Lance wrote: Do you fail to note the excessively conflicting conundra appearing daily on TT? Each is, as you put it, mentored by Jesus.(I'll let God speak for the Mormons) How can you say that Jesus isn't mentoring anyone you know, then turn around here and say that each on TT is mentored by Jesus? You just contradicted yourself. The conflicting conundra you mention exists because some are mentored by Christ through the Spirit of God and some are not. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. === message truncated
Re: [TruthTalk] On playing chess On reading/interpreting the Scriptures for living (not for 'A' living)
Lance wrote: Contradicted? If this were an exercise in logic then, OK. But, it is an exercise in humour so, no. I normally keep thoughts like these to myself, but I thought you would appriciate this, Lance. It was John Knowles in A Seperate Peace that said, Sarcasm is the protest of the weak. Blessings --- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Contradicted? If this were an exercise in logic then, OK. But, it is an exercise in humour so, no. You keep tryin' ta weasle out of this, David. It's the people who agree with me (you) thingy that you don't seem prepared to acknowledge. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: July 13, 2005 11:14 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] On playing chess On reading/interpreting the Scriptures for living (not for 'A' living) Lance wrote: a. I read TT b. Jesus isn't 'mentoring' anyone I know David. Perhaps He is not even mentoring you. Jesus does mentor people, but I understand how you do not recognize that. Lance wrote: Do you fail to note the excessively conflicting conundra appearing daily on TT? Each is, as you put it, mentored by Jesus.(I'll let God speak for the Mormons) How can you say that Jesus isn't mentoring anyone you know, then turn around here and say that each on TT is mentored by Jesus? You just contradicted yourself. The conflicting conundra you mention exists because some are mentored by Christ through the Spirit of God and some are not. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Sinless Perfection.htm
Hi JD, how is my father's post out of context? I would be interested to hear you thoughts on this. Blessings! --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Like I said David -- you are way out of context here and you know it. Shall I take time to prove the contextual point of John 16 and Mark 16? I can and will be happy to do so. JD -Original Message- From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 13:20:06 -0400 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Sinless Perfection.htm John wrote: No -- somebody forgot to tell you. Because you have no resepct for context in this case is of no matter to me. But context is very important. Without it, we have the fantasy that accompanies snake handling and ex-cathedra spiritual pronouncements brought, forever, into modern times. Sorry, John, but you are not going to sneak by with the lame out of context argument. The point is that the Holy Ghost continues to operate this way whether you recognize it or not. You are free to testify to us that the Holy Spirit does not operate in your life the way it is promised in John 16:13, but you cannot testify to others that he does not operate in the lives of anybody else like that. Jesus gave promises about the Holy Spirit and how he would operate in the lives of believers. Peter made it very clear that this promise was not restricted to just the eleven apostles at that moment in time. Acts 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them ... ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
