Re: [ubuntu-art] Dust theme implementation

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 06:39:59AM +0800 Kido Mariano wrote: 
> I *tried* to implement the Dust theme using one of my other themes as
> base. Try it out:
> 
> http://www.geocities.com/kid_orig/themer/Dust-0.tar.gz
> (requires Aurora engine installed)
> 
> It's still a bit far from the mockup, and some apps have problems (most
> notably Firefox, due to quirks in the Aurora engine). Anyone care to
> help?

is it possible to see a screenshot? i'm travelling with a laptop that
doesn't run Gnome (dwm) and i'm curious..

if not, no hassle,

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Intrepid Dust Theme

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 09:58:28AM -0400 Vadim Peretokin wrote: 
> A poll for the visual look of something is really bad - there are
> professional designers for a reason, and that's because they know what
> they're doing best. The poll would also not represent everybody who'll
> be using the OS - the old gramdma, the office worker, or Facebook
> addict. Simply because they don't care about all that much to be
> trolling the internet for things related to it.
> 
> Just no, a poll is a pretty bad idea :\

a poll is an /indicator/ of interest, from a certain subset of users.

even a poll on Ubuntu forums would generate vastly more information
about the relative public potential of a theme than we generate here
alone, on this list.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Intrepid Dust Theme

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 02:46:25PM +0100 José Luis wrote: 
> Why not make a poll in the community to choose the theme? Let 'em
> decide. They won't comply for a theme choosen by them.

yes, i've also been encouraging this approach. this is why i think it's
a good idea to get themes onto Gnome-Look. it's not unilaterally
representative of the Ubuntu user-base, but it's a pretty fine start. 

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Brown rocks. Get over it and being default.

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 06:03:37PM -0400 Vadim Peretokin wrote: 
> I don't understand where is this brown so prominent that it's bad... it's
> mostly orange that I see.
> 
> (and the wallpaper on 8.04 rocks)

i doubt a brown theme will ever be as /ubiquitously/ tolerated (let
alone popular) as a blue or steely grey theme. around half my students
(many of which are (interaction) design students) change the theme from
human claiming that they can't stand it. some of these people say brown
is "old", others "depressing" while some say it's "dirty". a few in the
class seem to either not care while the remaining simply love it, mostly
on the basis that "it's different".

thankfully Ubuntu is taking something of a risk here, the last thing the
world needs is another blue theme. i don't like the brown at all myself,
finding it a bit heavy and artificial somehow. IMO a grass-green theme
would be a good compromise, fresh and energetic.

all said i notice that in Spain (where I live and work currently) and
here in Sao Paulo Brazil (where i'm exhibiting some work currently) the
Human theme seems relatively untouched on the (many) Ubuntu desktops
i've encountered. there is something to be said for cultural
differentiation where colour theory is concerned..

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Intrepid Ibex Theme

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 02:38:30PM -0400 Joshua Booth wrote: 
> This is the kind of thing Ubuntu needs to start making. The new Ibex theme
> is hideous and almost unusable for non-native applications, and and I
> disliked the last theme too.
> 
> http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs31/i/2008/215/e/1/Interpid_Ibex_Mockup_Part_1_by_willwill100.png

IMO the panel in the above mockup looks quite washed-out. who agrees
translucent panels look a little milky somehow? what material is the
panel and the window title supposed to be made of, polyethylene? why are
they transparent, what use does it serve other than proving it's
possible? 

that said i think the yellow tabs and notifiers are better in the above
mockup than seen elsewhere, offset nicely by the grey-brown. 

overall, where that Ibex mockup lacks in vibrance it makes up in class,
save the dock at the bottom, which is simply unimaginative. 

my 2 bytes,

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Re: [ubuntu-art] More Mockups

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 10:15:29PM -0400 Ken Vermette wrote: 
> 
> New batch, I tried to get everyones ideas in here. The only thing I did
> differently from the suggestions was the buttons, the gray background to
> them just made it all feel more "solid".
> 
> http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y111/raraken/kin_piano_kith_r2.png
> http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y111/raraken/kin_piano_clouds_r2.png
> http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y111/raraken/kin_piano_rocks_r2.png
> http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y111/raraken/kin_piano_trnthtfrnupsddwn_r2.png
> 
> aaand... The development SVG. One thing about the SVG is that it's -very-
> rough.
> 
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/Kin_Intrepid?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=kin_piano_rev2.svg
> 
> As a thought, please tell me if you like the idea; but what if we create an
> all-brown dark theme for the root account? With the root set as a matching
> all-brown theme, users will still see when they're using the root account,
> and the windows will look half-decent (as opposed to using the most generic
> theme settings)
> 
> Again, any suggestions will be implemented one way or another! Also, I'm
> thinking of getting a team together to work on a complete version of this
> style, from login screens to avant colour schemes aswell assuming thingskeep
> going in the right direction.

looking good, though i'm not sure about those buttons: they stand out
too much. with several windows it could be a little harsh. 

as a possible direction, what about simply dropping the background of
those buttons and changing the button icons to that same light grey? you
could give them the same soft 'glow' you're using for the Ubuntu logo. i
don't think they need a border and/or individual backgrounds/containers
at all..

on a mouse-over event they could, however, change to just as they appear
in those mockups.

keep up the good work.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] More Mockups

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 11:13:17PM +0200 Patrick Niklaus wrote: 
> Hi,
> 
> >
> > Below are with different backgrounds...
> > http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y111/raraken/kin_piano_kith.png
> > http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y111/raraken/kin_piano_grass.png
> > http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y111/raraken/kin_piano_leaf.png
> > http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y111/raraken/kin_piano_rocks.png
> >
> 
> Looks interesting. Would be nice to see it in full size. :-)
> 
> >
> > With buttons...
> > http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y111/raraken/kin_piano_btns.png
> >
> 
> The fade between the minimize and the maximize button looks strange,
> maybe try a single line as separation.

IMO the 'glowing grey' strategy used in the Ubuntu logo would serve as a
great basis for buttons (maximise, minimise, close) without the need for
the graduated backgounds, seen in the below mockup:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y111/raraken/kin_piano_btns.png

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Re: [ubuntu-art] More Mockups

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 04:50:03PM -0400 Ken Vermette wrote: 
> I'm not entirely sure about the direction Kin and Kith are taking,
> especially with the whole OSX smackdown - so I'm trying something new with
> the themes, posting mockups of the new directions the theme could go
> flailing into. When I hit something half-decent, I'm going to develop it
> similarly to Kith/Kin, but I'd like to know I'm getting warmer first. If you
> post links to other themes, I'll try to incorperate what you like, wether I
> personally like it or not!
> 
> Below are with different backgrounds...
> http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y111/raraken/kin_piano_kith.png
> http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y111/raraken/kin_piano_grass.png
> http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y111/raraken/kin_piano_leaf.png
> http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y111/raraken/kin_piano_rocks.png
> 
> With buttons...
> http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y111/raraken/kin_piano_btns.png
> 
> The main difference is that I've broken the slab, and made the outer rim
> outline protrude even farther from the block while making it more subtle.
> I've also switched to gray for the window contents.

i think the choice of colours in these mockups, right down to the
'glowing' monochrome Ubuntu logo, mark a great improvement on their
predecessors.

looking good,

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 09:06:57AM -0400 Salane Ashcraft wrote: 

> [..] but what
> really is needed are some guidelines and one theme that everyone works
> on at the same time.

i sincerely doubt that will ever happen in this open design and
development context. efforts are better spent by small groups working on
unique projects in the hope they might become publically popular, let
alone garner the attention of Mark et al.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Mark has Thrown Down the Gauntlet!

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 04:57:39PM +0200 Kim Kahns wrote: 
> Am 24.07.2008 15:48:28 schrieb(en) Salane Ashcraft:
> > Ok well I posted them a while back, about a month ago. I am working 
> > on
> > creating a small team, and hopefully I can get some things done. i
> > almost think that we need to wait a bit for Icons - as what I have
> > been working on looks great with the current icons. Mark wants in 2
> > years for us to have moved to the point of surpassing OS X - So I
> > think we can create this theme, change the fonts, the work on icons
> > for the next release, while making improvements to theme in
> > preparation for the next LTS.
> > 
> 
> 
> Here is my opionion on the various topics:
> 1.
> Ubuntu will never look as polished as OSX, at least not with GTK 2.0 
> and brown/orange colors.
> Brown is seen by many people as old and unaesthetic, and orange is a 
> signal color.

when teaching with Ubuntu i make the point of asking students every once
in a while, who likes the look of Ubuntu and who doesn't? 

what i find firstly interesting is it is the brown of the theme that is
the most distinctive for them, rather than any other feature of the
Ubuntu desktop as it appears. in this sense Mark was certainly right:
the choice to use brown has made Ubuntu nothing short of distinctive.

where his theory for a brown desktop fails however is by very virtue of
the fact it generates such polarity of opinion. there are those of my
students that certainly /love/ the brown there are also those that
'distinctly' and very vocally don't like it, talking to excess about its
offences on their eyes.

to these ends the Human colour theory has failed: it would be far better
to have a theme where the colour doesn't produce such diametric
opinions. colour - i believe - should have far less prevalence in what
makes the Ubuntu desktop distinctive, let alone a success. 

put simply, colour should be used primarily to the ends of improving
usability in a desktop, not merely to make it 'distinct' (an empty and
vain project when taken on its own..). the desperate and abstract
attachment to brown is really starting to show it's age. this is
something people other than those of us on this list are perfectly
willing to admit..

we, the designers and/or art testers, haven't yet proven that brown was
any more than than as a thinly veiled attempt to be distinct within a
world of blue and brushed-metal desktops.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] GTK-theme proposal

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 06:55:25PM +0200 Kim Kahns wrote: 
> Am 23.07.2008 11:10:32 schrieb(en) Mario Viviani:
> 
> I attached the updated theme.

is there any chance of you posting a screenshot? i'm away from my
Ubuntu/GNOME machine currently but am curious nonetheless. 

if not, so be it.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] GTK-theme proposal

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 03:43:10PM -0500 Jonathan Motes wrote: 
> Hey guys, I know I don't post here that often but I've been following the
> various mockups and themes, and I have to say and this one is the first that
> is really pleasing to me. Keep up the good work!
> 
> I also wanted to say that I don't have a problem with the minimize,
> maximize, and close buttons appearing "Vista-ish". People need to have an
> operating system that bears some similarity to what they are used to in
> order to feel comfortable with it. I really think this design would be a
> real winner for people coming from Vista. Just my two cents

i disagree with this. the message it actually sends out is one of a lack
of preparedness - or capacity - to come up with our own fresh ideas.
that which emulates, flatters: what those buttons say is "Vista does it
right, we agree". 

the primary question to ask is: is that the best we can do? if we don't
ask this question, you can be sure other people looking at Ubuntu will
ask it for us..

even if there were droves of people running from Vista to Ubuntu, it
shouldn't be a bridge OS from Windows into *nix. Ubuntu should represent
/itself/ as a coherent and individual expression of possibility. this
expression of confidence happens primarily on an aesthetic level for
non-technical adopters. it is the only basis by which they can trust
that the developers knew what they were doing. a bold, well-implemented
visual identity is a fast-track to that confidence.

anyway, they are just buttons for goodness sakes: minimise, maximise,
close. to satisfy that basic pre-requisite - keeping usability in mind -
is all that's required for someone to feel perfectly at home after the
first trial click. i've seen many buttons posted to this list that look
superior to those Vista buttons while serving the desktop image with
greater sympathy.

if i thought another operating system sucked less than Debian or Ubuntu,
i would certainly use it. visually communicating that we know - and
invest in - that Ubuntu is a great platform of diverse application is
the challenge here. anything short of that is selling that investment
out, IMHO.

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[ubuntu-art] // Ken's Kin (was "Kith Intrepid") //

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 08:31:31PM -0400 Ken Vermette wrote: 

>I've put together
> Kin, which is somewhere between Kith and Union and even (going back on this
> one) Basic Ideals. Link below. Should I build the Emerald theme and give it
> a real whirl?
> 
> http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y111/raraken/kin.png

a friendly prod: i'm sure there are more than a few of us looking
forward to updates along this line..

any inclination to make a wiki page for Kin, Ken?

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Kith Intrepid

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 08:31:31PM -0400 Ken Vermette wrote: 
> ... Getting back on topic...
> 
> I've read a few complaints about the exact colour of Kith, specifically how
> it looks like someone gutted a salmon on their computer. I've put together
> Kin, which is somewhere between Kith and Union and even (going back on this
> one) Basic Ideals. Link below. Should I build the Emerald theme and give it
> a real whirl?
> 
> http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y111/raraken/kin.png

now you're talking. nice work. that is very strong.

cheers,

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> 
> On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 7:37 PM, Julian Oliver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> 
> > ..on or around Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 04:28:35PM -0700 shadowh511 wrote:
> > > Look at my sig!
> > >
> > >
> > > shadowh511
> > >
> > > Please don't complain about top-posting, I'm typing from an iTouch.
> >
> > you could've waited until you were at a desktop computer to post us
> > that, but then i suppose your sig wouldn't make sense.
> >
> > ah, i get it now.. that was a 'meta-top-post'.
> >
> > --
> > julian oliver
> > http://julianoliver.com
> > http://selectparks.net
> > messages containing HTML will not be read.
> >
> > >
> > > On Jul 13, 2008, at 12:53 PM, "Klaus Bitto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Also, on a side note, apologies for the top-posting, I didn't
> > > > realize I was doing it, tell me if this message top-posts (I'm
> > > > paranoid now)
> > > >
> > > > It does not.  Everything was fine ;)
> > > > --
> > > > ubuntu-art mailing list
> > > > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> > > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
> > >
> > > --
> > > ubuntu-art mailing list
> > > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
> >
> > --
> > ubuntu-art mailing list
> > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> -Ken Vermette

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Kith Intrepid

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 04:28:35PM -0700 shadowh511 wrote: 
> Look at my sig!
> 
> 
> shadowh511
> 
> Please don't complain about top-posting, I'm typing from an iTouch.

you could've waited until you were at a desktop computer to post us
that, but then i suppose your sig wouldn't make sense.

ah, i get it now.. that was a 'meta-top-post'.

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> 
> On Jul 13, 2008, at 12:53 PM, "Klaus Bitto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > Also, on a side note, apologies for the top-posting, I didn't  
> > realize I was doing it, tell me if this message top-posts (I'm  
> > paranoid now)
> >
> > It does not.  Everything was fine ;)
> > -- 
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> > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
> 
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Kith Intrepid

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 01:56:31PM +0200 Andrea Cimitan wrote: 
> 2008/7/12 Ken Vermette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > Alrighty. Maybe if you'd like we can try this the other way around, I've
> > just uploaded the Kith emerald theme (named "Didymous") onto the tubes, the
> > colour might be slightly off with the metacity theme, but if you want, give
> > it a try!
> >
> > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/Kith_Intrepid?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=Didymous.emerald
> > or the wiki...
> > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/Kith_Intrepid#head-1929036c38a4d895a1d544c27bef8d017949b58d
> >
> 
> I prefer the Union mockup

personally i wouldn't use such a bright and 'salmon pink' theme. it'd
give me a headache. but anyway, if it's a hit with actual users then i'm
all for it.

i'm still worried about the dependence on Compiz with these themes
though. i work (and teach) as an graphics programmer/game-developer and
artist. one of the first things i do is disable Compiz on all the
computers on which i teach and work: it simply interferes far too much
with various 3D applications.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] New theme looking for critique based on Human-Clearlooks

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Sat, Jul 05, 2008 at 09:45:57PM -0700 AA Boy wrote: 
> I made a newer theme based on the Human-Clearlooks theme included with
> hardy. I specifically wanted to give it more color (the origional theme
> looks more like shades of the same color) while keeping it usable and
> friendly. I came up with my modification. I will be uploading it constantly,
> so I will just provide a link to the Ubuntu Forums
> topic<http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=850723>,
> where you can download it. I will include a couple screenshots here with
> this email so that you may see what the themes look like. Would you tell me
> which window border (the origional or test2 one) you like better? Also, any
> criticism is appretiated. Thanks.

i far prefer the test2, though it's naturally harder to tell which window is
in focus. if unfocussed windows could be further differentiated from the
focussed it might we workable as a theme.

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[ubuntu-art] // successful use of dark colours: 2 examples //

[Julian Oliver]

while we're on the topic of dark themes, i thought i'd feed a couple of
(publically successful) dark theme mockups back into the pool.

this very basic mockup represents good use of dark colours i think.
people responded to it very well in forums/blogs/digg: 

http://willwill100.deviantart.com/art/Ubuntu-Mockup-Hardy-Heron-74511244

while i'm not taken with the window title style, i do think the artist
has done well to leverage dark colours with highlights that appear to be
cast by light. there is a logical continuity in the lighting model
he/she has used.

in this example darker colours are used to add vibrancy and depth rather
than simply to 'turn down the lights', reducing both clarity and
contrast overall.

this other mockup goes darker still while highlighting useability hints
with a brown/orange:


http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs23/f/2007/323/0/b/Ubuntu_Theme_Mockup___Dark_by_bradwjensen.jpg

it is perhaps far too dark for general distribution of course.

nonetheless i think it is important to recognise those mockups Ubuntu
users have made that many other users respond very positively to. while
being far from feasible, it's my belief these mockups ought to be taken
as strong hints in a theme design process.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Whats Up with This?

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Tue, Jul 01, 2008 at 12:44:54PM -0400 Christina Eater wrote: 
> Hey, list. I'm new, and chiming in for the first time here because,
> well, I felt challenged to. I'm not particularly technical--my
> background is in art--and I don't know the first thing about making a
> theme besides having tweaked my login screen a bit, but I do know a
> little about color theory and typography and design, and I'd like to
> help. Is this the right place for me? I note:
> 
> On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 4:42 AM, Julian Oliver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > i really do think Mark needs to consult someone with provable
> > understanding in colour-theory and design to ensure the next release
> > actually looks good. it would seem no-one that can actually make a theme
> > is near enough to someone that understands this stuff to pull off a good
> > result for Ubuntu.
> >
> > i suggested it a couple of years ago on this list: in the absence of
> > actual designers, perhaps a graphic design school could 'audit' the
> > default theme as part of a class project, coming up with a few mockups
> > within the scope of what's doable in GTK? at the least we could give
> > them existing screenshots and have them manipulate the colour field
> > until better results are found..
> >
> 
> which certainly suggests an "absence of designers" on the list
> (possible a niche I could help fill); but also
> 
> On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 7:53 AM, Nick Russell
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > What I'm getting at I suppose is that
> > whilst obviously there will be technical/accessibility issues which are best
> > reported on launchpad, there will also be more abstract/vague
> > art-critic/audience-critic responses which would be best place somewhere
> > else (forums/wiki/individuals blogs)?
> >
> 
> which seems to be saying that some on this list don't want "art
> critic" responses here. Is there another place a creative,
> non-technical person can be of help?

well it's certainly great that you wrote in. i think we need more of
your skills right here; here is a great place to start helping.

while i'm far from an authority on where efforts should be spent right
now, i i'd suggest that some constructive, educated criticism of the
theme that's currently shipping with the Ubuntu 8.10 (intrepid) Alpha
would be useful for us all. 

what would you do to improve it, if at all?
what are it's strengths and weaknesses, if any?

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Whats Up with This?

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Tue, Jul 01, 2008 at 10:26:17AM -0600 Ashton wrote: 
> >I'll say it again, we are testing a dark theme to find out whether it is
> even
> possible to use one or not.
> 
> 
> Alphas should absolutely be a place for playing around with ideas, testing
> concepts...I don't think Digg or even Ars should be given room to discourage
> experimentation. Some PlanetUbuntu posts might have helped. And I'm
> wondering about the feasibility of some kind of doc/readme, slide show, or
> even pre-loaded Tomboy note, that would pop up or sit on the desktop only in
> the alphas, which would explain some of these things as well as whatever
> other changes Ubuntu might be looking into. "With this release we are
> exploring ... with this app, that app, and so on. Any constructive criticism
> should be left at such and such place...blah blah. If you have this hardware
> or that hardware we are particularly interested in your experiences with
> blah-de-blah...Thanks for trying this build and aiding in the growth of such
> and such."

i think this is a good idea.. if the Tomboy notes aren't feasible, at
the very least it could be a glaring README.html on the desktop.

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> 
> 
> On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 9:17 AM, SorinN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > I see the comments Julian - but I have some expertize in design so I
> > can recognize values on that kind of things - so if someone wrote
> > something -> must be true ..hmm, ...just because ???.
> >
> > for example if  I remember well WE agreed on the past to not consider
> > comments like :
> > " That theme is a show stopper. Eww.."
> > OR
> > "Yeah. That theme makes me want to puke... I won't even give Ubuntu
> > 8.10 a try if it ships with that crap as a default theme."
> > OR
> >  "We thought you were "Cuckoo for Coco Puffs" not "Horny for Linux"
> > OR
> > "Jumping Jackrabbits!"
> >
> > Is someone has something to say ..arguments please, ... else millions
> > of other forums wait out somewhere.
> >
> > On other hands, Ibex internal GUI team make not just big - but a huge
> > mistake - all that peoples who think that a dark theme will succeed
> > for a distro who wants to touch the mainstream - public institutions,
> > enterprises  and in general a large scale public - they just wrong. I
> > like the theme, it's ok - but my professional opinion vote down.
> > Sorry. I dream for an ..."every people" Ubuntu. On his most generously
> > shape.
> >
> > This theme is perfect suitable for artists or for Gnome fans with some
> > free time.
> >
> > To have a dark theme ( being the theme about we talk one other one, is
> > unproductive - think about to peoples which work with forms
> > everyday...
> >
> > U see, I not agree with a dark default theme too - because I am from
> > the Design / GUI design area ( I got my money doing that ) but I make
> > the difference - I know such kind of themes will not become too
> > popular for the masses - but particularly I like the theme  ( for me
> > ), except the dark scrollbars and the pressed gnome buttons that are
> > not very clear defined, so I give just an advice to author.
> >
> > Back to the the living beans planet,  in forums I like explain my
> > points of view and to stay away from my primary impulses ( thousands
> > years of civilization should let some fingertips over peoples no ? )
> > so - I'll never say something like " this theme suck ...", because
> > it's not my level.
> >
> > On short:
> >
> > 1. I vote down for this theme. Sorry.
> > 2. I'll use this theme on my free time doing artworks, because I like
> > it. I think I'll change the scrollbar color before ;)
> >
> >
> >
> > 2008/7/1 Julian Oliver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > ..on or around Tue, Jul 01, 2008 at 03:27:16PM +0300 SorinN wrote:
> > >> regarding:
> > >> > See the complaints? We cannot let this happen. This theme is even
> > worse
> > >> > then the default of Hardy
> > >>
> > >> 1. Well my question is about "worse" word. What is so worse .. ?
> > >>
> > >> 2. indeed some things could be improved. Scrollbars  are almost
> > >> invisible - which is not good - always you have to loose 1 or 2
> > >> seconds to focus your look to see if is something scrollable or not -
> >

Re: [ubuntu-art] Whats Up with This?

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Tue, Jul 01, 2008 at 03:27:16PM +0300 SorinN wrote: 
> regarding:
> > See the complaints? We cannot let this happen. This theme is even worse
> > then the default of Hardy
> 
> 1. Well my question is about "worse" word. What is so worse .. ?
> 
> 2. indeed some things could be improved. Scrollbars  are almost
> invisible - which is not good - always you have to loose 1 or 2
> seconds to focus your look to see if is something scrollable or not -
> but if the bar is colored and visible you will know from start if  is
> something to scroll
> 
> It's clear, the author is not a fervent reader of usability books -
> but hey - the rest is pretty clear and clean - he has talent he need
> ideas / help not this kind of remarks.
> 
> 3. Criticism must be "positive" - I mean -> if something is not good
> -> let solve the problem, talk about problems not shoot the people...
> I'm got tired of  "Neanderthal positivism" on almost all places - this
> community must think in a superior way.
> 
> 4. Anyway this theme will make it's history between graphic artists,
> gamers - not office dedicated peoples, etc. On my opinion is one if
> the best dark theme that I see on last months - clearly defined
> buttons, elegant metacity theme. The only drawback -> scrollbars not
> visible.

regardless, it's clear that many people feel very strongly that they
don't like the theme in its current iteration. i suggest you read some
of their comments. my experience of it is also that it's a pretty poor
dark theme.


http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=50009562&f=174096756&m=299007113931&r=299007113931

from:


http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080629-horny-for-ubuntu-8-10-first-look-at-intrepid-ibex.html

regardless, instead of just diving in there now and making changes - you
fixing the scrollbars, me trying to return some sane contrast to the
colour palette - i feel it would be wise to provide a central forum for
/users/ of the theme to make constructive criticisms. it could take the
form of a sticky thread setup by one of the moderators at Ubuntu Forums,
alongside similar forums in other languages.

currently, the criticisms are spread both too widely and in contexts not
constructive to collating well-meaning, useful feedback..

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Re: [ubuntu-art] dark theme for alpha

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 10:27:52AM -0500 Matthew Nuzum wrote: 
> Good work on getting the dark theme in place for Alpha 1. It is a very
> exciting event. Just to confirm, the current plan is for the dark
> theme to exist during the alpha stages in order to generate bug
> reports on incompatible apps and to become aware of any usability
> issues, right?
> 
> If so, we should alert Steve Langasek the Ubuntu release manager so
> that he can ensure the release notes for the alpha releases indicate
> this clearly to avoid too many, "I don't like the dark theme"
> complaints. Although there should be an appropriate way for the
> community to voice their opinion on the matter (I'd just prefer it not
> to be the bug tracker since I get plenty of bug mail already).

maybe it'd be wise to have one of the Ubuntu Forums make a sticky
thread: "Comment here on the Dark Theme for Intrepid". he could put a
link to the thread in the release notes, or just direct them to the top
level of the forums. we could read their complaints/suggestions here.

that said, this strategy would only cover the English Ubuntu users..

cheers,

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Whats Up with This?

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 12:14:41PM +0530 Bharat Varma wrote: 
> there will always be people who immediately oppose any change. this sort of
> criticism is essential to make a superior final product. i would definitely
> say that this is a good direction.
> 
> i am not a fan of the color scheme currently used - i think the colors are
> too dull for a theme which demands sharper colors. and it is true that it
> does look too dark for mainstream. but i am guessing that can be changed
> easily.

it's not a case of it being too dark, so much as it evidencing far too
much washed-out-flat-grey. frankly, i agree with those responses, it's
pretty horrible alright:

http://phorolinux.com/images/u810a1/ubuntu810-nautilus.jpg

i believe dark colours in a theme /can/ work very well but to do this
requires some actual talent and care in making it work. dark colours can
themselves be a highlight. alternatively they can be deployed to
leverage other colours into having more presence in the canvas (as you
suggest). the above example does the opposite of either. 

to start with, the impact that dark-backgrounds have on existing icons,
text and dialogs needs to be given some actual consideration. in the
above case you can see they've spent almost no time refactoring to these
ends, merely inverting the text-colour. the result is a theme that
actively works against vibrancy. can you imagine using this theme on a
low-contrast display?  

for instance, why does 'dark' imply 'dark grey'? it appears there's a
little brown in the grey they've chosen but barely enough to unify it
with the other predominant colour in the desktop. if we must go with
brown (by way of law) then why not swing toward a dark brown rather than
the mix of white and black? 
> 
> I love the window decoration and the right amount of roundedness (for me).
> 

that's about the only good to come out of that theme so far. the rest is
pretty devoid of inspiration and thought.

i really do think Mark needs to consult someone with provable
understanding in colour-theory and design to ensure the next release
actually looks good. it would seem no-one that can actually make a theme
is near enough to someone that understands this stuff to pull off a good
result for Ubuntu. 

i suggested it a couple of years ago on this list: in the absence of
actual designers, perhaps a graphic design school could 'audit' the
default theme as part of a class project, coming up with a few mockups
within the scope of what's doable in GTK? at the least we could give
them existing screenshots and have them manipulate the colour field
until better results are found..

cheers,

-- 
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> On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 9:37 AM, Salane Ashcraft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Hey Everyone...
> > What's up with this?
> >
> > http://digg.com/linux_unix/Ubuntu_8_10_Intrepid_Ibex_Alpha_1_Screenshots
> >
> > See the complaints? We cannot let this happen. This theme is even worse
> > then the default of Hardy
> >
> > Salane
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > --
> > ubuntu-art mailing list
> > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> d-_-b

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Re: [ubuntu-art] New Wave Icons

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Thu, May 29, 2008 at 12:50:51AM +0200 François Degrave wrote: 
> 2008/5/28 fruchtschwert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 
> > Am Sonntag, den 25.05.2008, 16:17 +0300 schrieb Anton Kerezov:
> > > ?? 14:56 +0200  25.05.2008 (), Mario Viviani :
> > > > Mario V.
> > > > > Il giorno sab, 24/05/2008 alle 20.54 -0300, spg76 ha scritto:
> > > > > 2008/5/24 Anton Kerezov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > > > > I've made some changes to a dozen of icons (I attach a pack). The
> > > > > > difference is in color contrast and in removed gloss form some
> > icons.
> > > > > > What do you think?
> > > > > >
> > > > > Hi, I think they look good. The one that I like the most it's the
> > > > > mail-send icon.
> > >
> > > The restart icon is not as good as I wanted. If you include them please
> > > leave it aside.
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > P.S.
> > > > > > I'm still wondering how change or remake the reload icon. Any
> > ideas?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anton
> > > > > >
> > > > > I can make a few alternatives if you want and then we can choose
> > which
> > > > > way is the best.
> > > > > Also, I've made alternate versions of some actions icons. You can
> > > > > check them out at
> > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/sebastianporta/tags/actions/ and you
> > can
> > > > > see it on a screenshot at
> > > > > http://img355.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pantallazo1dy8.png
> > >
> > > The icons are good but I think they stand a little bit unfinished. Try
> > > to use outline wit some matching color (not black) so that the user can
> > > better visually see where the icon ends.
> > >
> > > When you are done upload the changes ;)
> > >
> > > Anton
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Hey,
> >
> > first of all, I want to compliment sebastian for the great brown
> > navigation-icons. I think we should keep them like that ..
> >
> >
> Maybe I'm the only one, but I don't like them at all. 

admittedly i don't like them at all either. they look like they've been
'burned' - as though made of burnt paper - and appear to have been made
by simply dragging the gradient tool over the shape of the icon. 

finally they stand out far too much, far too 'in-your-face' to be icons
i could live with.

that said, why not post them to gnome-look and get some feedback from
users? maybe they'll be a hit.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] New Wave : buttons, progress bars and lifts

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Sun, May 25, 2008 at 04:58:02PM +0200 François Degrave wrote: 
> Hi!
> 
> I worked quite a lot on this! The lifts are not totally finished yet.

that looks quite ok to me. however i am left wondering where the light
is coming from, the light that produces this highlights..

overall there seems to be some inconsistency forming between the buttons
and the title-bar. if the buttons get a high-light then why not the base
of the titlebar? why not the base of the panel also?  how 'thick' are
the buttons compared to the titlebar such that they receive light from
below and the titlebar doesn't?

the moment you start representing the casting of light you start
implying corporeal objects. for this reason it's much easier to produce
inconsistent results the more vectors of light you introduce in your
scene.

cheers,

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Re: [ubuntu-art] New Wave

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Wed, May 14, 2008 at 10:36:46AM +0200, Oliver Grawert said:
> hi,
> Am Dienstag, den 13.05.2008, 21:44 +0200 schrieb Julian Oliver:
> > good comments. that dotted line around the icons has always driven me
> > nuts, appearing more as an artifact than something intended.
> did you ever try to use your desktop without mouse ?
> 
> while its ugly and i agree it souldnt be there by default, it has a
> reason to still exist (probably file a bug to make it switchable in an
> a11y setting or so)

it's useful for tabbing through items for sure, but it doesn't need to
look like a glitch to provide such user feedback, lest of all be present
all the time. perhaps if anything, TABKEY without a window in focus
should invoke that dotted line.

cheers,

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Re: [ubuntu-art] New Wave

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Tue, May 13, 2008 at 10:55:57PM +0300, Anton Kerezov said:
> ?? 20:42 +0200  13.05.2008 (), François Degrave :
> > Hi everybody!
> > 
> > 
> > I have some remarks about the current theme, and that is easier for me 
> > to show it directly on a picture. So here it is:
> > http://img174.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=04028_Capture_122_1178lo.jpg
> > 
> > Reactions and answers about that are welcome!
> > 
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > 
> > François
> 
> Well all is good. But some things I consider are not good. Example is
> the very light  (contrasting) selected menu. Why do we need it so
> bright? The way you use menus is that. You need a function in the menus
> > find the menu you want > click it and look its contents not the part
> you just clicked. That is why I've made them like that grey bg and white
> fg. Besides Firefox cannot render the menus in the way you are showing.

i like it as it is in Francois' screenshot. it clearly distinguishes the
dropdown menu item from the panel. it also integrates the dropdown menu
background with the highlighted parent menu item itself (in this case
'Raccourcis').

in your images it is separated from both the panel and the parent menu
item, adding unneccesary complexity to the visual field.

my two bytes,

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Re: [ubuntu-art] New Wave

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Tue, May 13, 2008 at 08:42:13PM +0200, François Degrave said:
> Hi everybody!
> 
> 
> I have some remarks about the current theme, and that is easier for me 
> to show it directly on a picture. So here it is:
> http://img174.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=04028_Capture_122_1178lo.jpg
> 
> Reactions and answers about that are welcome!

good comments. that dotted line around the icons has always driven me
nuts, appearing more as an artifact than something intended.

the panel separator? well that's just wrinkly and awful.

cheers,

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Windows? Mac? Gnome? KDE?

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Fri, May 09, 2008 at 10:04:15AM -0500, Seth Rattan said:
> I completely agree.  We should pick an idea/concept and use that for the
> basis of all specific design decisions.  Whether that idea is to work with
> specific visual elements (glass effects, gradients, window borders) or to
> pursue an overall visual idea, we need something to guide our work besides
> "this needs to be more macish" or "this looks like windows vista." We need
> to build our own ideas, from the ground up, instead of defining ourselves by
> the arbitrary and often unimaginative interfaces present on closed operating
> systems.

sure, but as a group we could take years deciding such things, if at
all. 

IMO it's best to simply start making themes in small groups based on
your own ideas with the intent of them being tested in the wild and
(ideally) improved as a result. 

perhaps then - after all this process - Mark will become aware of the
theme, decide he likes it and make it the default. if not, perhaps it'll
be shipped anyway as part of a theme pack.

strong and unique ideas are often (not always) one of the first
casualties of a collaborative design process; the process of seeking
agreement in groups often results in the generalisation of design
proposals in order to fit the many varying interests of all group
members. what otherwise gave those original ideas a strong identity is,
by this process, averaged into mediocrity and those that contributed the
strong ideas lose motivation having seen this identity dissolved.

for this reason i think it's best to create prototype implementations
(even mockups) of good designs alone with the ends of inspiring
collaborators to improve that implementation. 

the New Wave theme group are a good example of this process in action,
so far. IMO this approach has the best chance of success, most things
considered.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] New Wave Poll

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Wed, May 07, 2008 at 08:59:10PM +0300, Anton Kerezov said:
> Hello everyone,
> 
> As you may have read ???François and I are wondering what direction the
> New Wave theme to go on:
> 
> Either this way:
> http://img172.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=74539_NewWave_test_07_122_995lo.jpg
> ???(the taskbar should be one idea lighter, I think)
> 
> that is closer to:
> http://bradwjensen.deviantart.com/art/Ubuntu-Theme-Mockup-Dark-67903127
> 

Brad's mockup is much more resolved than the above New Wave test, though
i liked Francois' original mockup just fine. 

i'd like to see an implementation as-close-as-possible to what was in
Francois' original New Wave mockup (min/max/close titlebar icons
included!) and take it from there with adaptations where necessary
(ideally after testing it)..

what i am most worried about is the early dependence on Compiz.. do drop
shadows really matter? i know Cory disagrees here but shouldn't you
complete a theme without Compiz dependence and then work toward it as an
extra?

i teach with Ubuntu on a regular basis at university and in several
cultural centres: one of the first things i do is turn Compiz off as it
simply doesn't play nicely when one is programming 3D graphics
applications (a topic i often teach).

keep up the good work,

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Re: [ubuntu-art] New Wave

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Tue, May 06, 2008 at 09:22:33PM +0300, Anton Kerezov said:
> Hi
> 
> I finally figured out how to implement the unfocused windows. I actually
> did not implement anything it was all there in Compiz-Fusion, a plug-in
> called trailfocus. The results were quite good for me and I think that
> we made another step up to out target image in the wiki.
> 
> Preview: 
> http://img238.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=97606_NewWave_test_05_122_454lo.jpg
> 
> The plug-in though has to be polished a bit but I think right know is
> pretty good.
> 
> Any comments?

looks fine to me, though still reliant on Compiz, which means it can't
be relied on on several kinds of machine.

i see you still have the min/max/close icons visible on the inactive
windows. to make it more like the original New Wave, perhaps it'd be
better to remove them? 

in this way you're adding one more visual clue that the window is
inactive (beyond title colour and shadowing).

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Re: [ubuntu-art] New Wave

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Mon, May 05, 2008 at 03:41:55PM +0300, Anton Kerezov said:
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> I've made a newer version of New Wave that has darker taskbar and window
> handlers. I've also added a small gradient for the menubars so that they
> look as if they are in the back. Also changed border thickness and color
> esp. for ???François. To be honest I liked better the old one.
> 
> old:
> ???http://img180.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=33720_NewWave_test_02_122_484lo.jpg
> 
> new:
> http://img28.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=88676_NewWave_test_03_122_1054lo.jpg
> 

is it possible to make the tab that appears in the file menu in that the
same colour as the background of the drop-down menu itself? this would
look quite good i think. if not, then perhaps it'd be best to use the
colours in the mockup itself rather than the pinkish colour you've
chosen.

secondly, i think it would be better to have the title visible in inactive
windows instead of the minimise/maximise icons themselves. 
the reason for this is that the name of an inactive window is far more
useful than the icons for minimise/maximise. the window needs to become
active for these icons to be useful anyway..

what do you think?

> 
> > ???2. Why fg/bg[ACTIVE] doesn't work for the menubar? Is it the engine's
> > fault?
> > 
> 
> I mean ... can I color the File menu element on the titlebar in gray
> just like the main menu? I think Who can help?

oh, maybe we're speaking about the same thing here.

> 
> What version of the theme do you like more? The darker with thinner
> borders or the greyish with bigger borders?
>

i far prefer the thinner borders.

finally, is it possible to give the panel a gradient as seen in the new
wave theme? i suppose this question has been answered many times
previously.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Ideas

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Sun, May 04, 2008 at 08:29:02PM -0500, Michael McKinley said:
> On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 4:06 PM, Cory K. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Peter Mayhew wrote:
> >  >
> >  > Another part of the idea of Humanness is that Ubuntu should work on as
> >  > many computers as possible. Compiz, blending, and other discussed
> >  > require specific graphics cards or use too much processing power to be
> >  > practical on many computers; these should be incorporated when they
> >  > have been made as efficient as possible and when the graphics required
> >  > are the minimum available, not an arbitrary level that too many people
> >  > fail to meet.
> >  >
> >
> >  No. Let XFCE and Open/Flux/Blackbox worry about these people.
> 
> I agree completely.  I know that most of this wasn't directed towards
> me, but I just want to clarify my position.  I'm all for taking full
> advantage of Compiz and the like to make Ubuntu as elegant as
> possible.  My only concern with the completely borderless windows was
> that it might not degrade gracefully.

i think it'll be fine as long as the borders are a couple of pixels.  i
have been using 'borderless' (1px borders) windows for a couple of years
on my WM of choice (http://dwm.suckless.org) and do not struggle at all
with the visual definition between windows. the fact of window contents
being different from client to client helps delimit windows more than is
anticipated also. 

to assist the eye further however we could scale the border colour
depending on the position of the x client in the stack z-order: the
lightest border would be for clients in a position deepest in the stack. 
for continuity, the client on top of the stack could have borders the
same colour as that of the panel.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] New page on the Wiki

[Julian Oliver]

(copied out of the digest post i replied to and appended to this thread)

..on or around Sat, May 03, 2008 at 06:40:56PM +0200, François Degrave said:
> Hi everyone!
> 
> I created a new page on the wiki with a mockup representing what I'd like
> Ubuntu to look like in the (near) future:
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/NewWave
> 

this is pretty good. i like the relative lack of colour variance in the
wireless and volume applets. that they share the same colour as the time
groups them all together in the "information" part of the panel. the
subtle panel shading is good and works well when seen across several
colours (the grey and then the power button, then the logo).

i think the nectarine-red in the alert icon is a bit weak, off somehow.
i don't like the choice of folder icon theme but it's a welcome change
from the caramel bonbons we have currently ;) 

the black icons in the last screenshot are an interesting direction.

it's refreshing to see the titlebar removed when the window is inactive.
this would greatly simplify the visual field when many windows are in
open and avoids the need to change the colour of the title-bar when
inactive.

i would perhaps choose a thicker border on the windows however, as the
definition between windows may not be sufficient when many are stacked
ontop of each other - especially on systems without the true
transparency that compiz brings..

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Re: [ubuntu-art] ubuntu-art Digest, Vol 35, Issue 6

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Sat, May 03, 2008 at 06:24:31PM +0200, Julian Oliver said:
> 
> it's refreshing to see the titlebar removed when the window is active.

oops.. i meant to say "inactive" here, of course..

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Re: [ubuntu-art] ubuntu-art Digest, Vol 35, Issue 6

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Sat, May 03, 2008 at 06:03:42PM +0200, François Degrave said:
> 2008/5/3 Nicholas Kraak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 
> > Who cares about top posting? Why don't we get back to work.* :)
> > *
> > Has anyone come up with anything yet? I thought the discovery theme posted
> > yesterday was absolutely brilliant.
> >
> > --
> > ubuntu-art mailing list
> > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
> >
> >
> Hi!
> 
> I made this mockup today:
> http://www.info.fundp.ac.be/~fde/ubuntu_intrepid.jpg<http://www.info.fundp.ac.be/%7Efde/ubuntu_intrepid.jpg>
> 
> It is not complete, and I'm not sure if the icons are the best choice, but
> this is pretty close to what I'd like Ubuntu to look like, especially the
> taskbars.

this is pretty good. i like the relative lack of colour variance in the
wireless and volume applets. that they share the same colour as the time
groups them all together in the "information" part of the panel. the
subtle panel shading is good and works well when seen across several
colours (the grey and then the power button, then the logo).

i think the nectarine-red in the alert icon is a bit weak, off somehow.
i don't like the choice of folder icon theme but it's a welcome change
from the caramel bonbons we have currently ;)

it's refreshing to see the titlebar removed when the window is active.
this would greatly simplify the visual field when many windows are in
open and avoids the need to change the colour of the title-bar when
inactive.

i would perhaps choose a thicker border on the windows however, as the
definition between windows may not be sufficient when many are stacked
ontop of each other - especially on systems without the true
transparency that compiz brings..

> 
> And most of all, I would like the next Ubuntu to avoid using a UGLY GLASSY
> EFFECT on everything. That looks already old! The water effect was cool 5 or
> 6 years ago, but now it is time to move on.

i agree, it is pretty tired now. 

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Random Thoughts on Mail Burst

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 11:43:19AM +0200, Yann Dìnendal said:
> Hi,
> I thought it was said during the Hardy process that the Intrepid theme would
> be worked on from Hardy to Intrepid (as Hardy theme has not changed a
> lot)... So why don't we continue the work instead of forgetting everything
> that has be done every 6 months ? There have been some wonderful mockups
> proposed, we should work on them !
> Some good concepts :
> 
>- Gelatin
> 
>
> <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/gelatin#head-c93bf617109084c9f9c4f0dd1842167cb3fe72f1>
>- Dark mockup
><http://bradwjensen.deviantart.com/art/Ubuntu-Theme-Mockup-Dark-67903127>
>- Günther Beyer's work :
> here<https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2007-November/004204.html>and
>
> here<https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2007-November/004296.html>
>- Too human
>
> <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/TooHuman#head-8a4641bf418d9fa0c6e016fb60c84e992fa2bd0f>
>- 2D panel icons : this
> thread<https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2008-January/005118.html>and
> this
>
> one<https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2008-February/005245.html>(where
> are the "2D icons in launchpad" ?)
>- BasicIdeals
> !<https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/BasicIdeals#head-7429cd9f17f5b2bc33153dd22a89ad2eff17b0e0>
>- 
> Union<https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Union#head-5451daa7f88b46eaca94a24cfb5f869238c575ab>!!
> 
> What do you think ?

ok you asked ;)

of those you posted i think this is the strongest as a design, although
by my understanding it couldn't be implemented as a GTK theme:

http://bradwjensen.deviantart.com/art/Ubuntu-Theme-Mockup-Dark-67903127

while i do like it, i'm not fond of the OS X-ish dock and i think it
would be wise to see this in a few different colour combinations,
probably a lighter version (although i far prefer dark themes). 

perhaps there are a few ideas in there that can be recycled..

Basic Ideals (below) looks far too complex i think. i especially dislike the
button colours:


https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/BasicIdeals#head-7429cd9f17f5b2bc33153dd22a89ad2eff17b0e0

Union, as it stands, (below) i find a bit too soft and 'faded', as
though it's been left in the sun too long. for this reason it may be
especially difficult to use in strong-light conditions. it also looks
far too dependent on compiz. 

nonetheless - and like it's predecessor above - there are one or two
ideas in there that are interesting (like the window outlines):


https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Union#head-5451daa7f88b46eaca94a24cfb5f869238c575ab

Union is influenced by a mockup many people were enthusiastic about. it
was of course far too unrealistic to be actually implemented:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2620273#post2620273

i thought the colour palette worked well, complementing both warm and
cold colours without competition.

one you didn't post, that i thought showed some promise, is:

http://mossblaser.deviantart.com/art/Ubuntu-8-04-GUI-Design-Idea-72574609

it's good to see a working brown beyond the 'caramel' many Ubuntu users are
tired of..

for what it's worth, i've been looking for time to get in there and
have a go at directly implementing my own ideas as a GTK theme but am
currently too busy with some upcoming exhibitions. so, here i am again
giving mere opinions rather than actually doing something about it!

cheers,

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Stop top posting!

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 04:25:56AM -0400, coz DS said:
> If you guys using evolution are not getting the posts listed by time in
> order, then stop using evolution and switch over to gmail and the issue will
> dissapear! SOLVED!
>coz
> *

for what it's worth, i use mutt as my mail-reader and find it equally
difficult to follow threads with top-posts. 

i doubt you'll find many people switching to another reader - lest of
all one dependent on a browser - just to work around this (unnecessary)
problem.

cheers,

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Stop top posting!

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 08:46:45PM +0200, Stéphane Marguet (Stemp) 
said:
> I'm sorry, I'm using Ubuntu's evolution and I just want to tell you :
> for ME it's better to top-post !
> 
> I don't even understand why someone will ask for bottom-post !
> 
> PS : it's not a troll, I just want to understand why you may ask for
> bottom post. I just don't get it. What I care is about the answer !
> And I want the answer to be on TOP.

in most (if not all) spoken and written natural language transactions,
first comes the question and then the answer. it's unintuitive for many -
myself included - for this to be reversed. 

whether strategic or accidental, a top-post is a perversion of sense;
what you might call a Rhetorical Answer. it produces a break in the
inheritence of meaning and as such it is innately destructive to the
evolution of the thread.

for these reasons - and regardless of intent - top-posts will most often
be interpreted as a selfish form of reciprocation.

cheers,

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Intrepid Panels

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 06:42:05PM +0200, Steph said:
> Hi guys,
> 
> It seems I had a bug of the list and received ~50 of your message in a
> single digest. Here's what I think of :
> 
> * The animated, "live" wallpaper : it'a good idea, as long as it doesn't use
> more than 5% of CPU or GPU (better), and if this is realized, we have to
> check if it's really that eye pleasant. Animation is cool, yes, but
> really unobtrusive.
> We could try to reproduce a feature of the  Sony Ericsson
> <http://www.sonyericsson.com/cws/products/mobilephones/overview/s500i?cc=fr&lc=en>S500I
> phone<http://www.sonyericsson.com/cws/products/mobilephones/overview/s500i?cc=fr&lc=en>,
> wich changes its wallpaper along the day. My girlfriend has one, it's really
> beautiful, and not stressing at all.

5% is way too much GPU or CPU consumption for a wallpaper IMO. moreso
are you imagining 5% of the minimum target spec at the time of release?

(it would be ironic that the wallpaper has an 'earthy' theme yet is
itself the most energy expensive element of the UI when idle).

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Random Thoughts on Mail Burst

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 08:14:16PM -0700, Troy James Sobotka said:
> > Bharat Varma wrote:
> > The visual style I have mentioned is called 'Elements' and it has 4
> > variations - Fire (the one you can see in the link), Water, Air and Earth.
> > 
> > Fire - Orange, the default visual style
> > Water - Blue
> > Air - Grey
> > Earth - Green
> 
> Don't you feel that this thinking is bordering on cliche?  I am rather
> shocked by the few people who seem to think that this is a good
> direction, but alas, pursue away.
> 
> Somehow I can't help but think that the four elements of our poorly
> illuminated past are best left for the cliched design paradigm in
> foreign RPGs.  I greet with open arms anyone who will prove me wrong.

yes i really agree.. we're not theming a D&D convention or Pilates
Camp. 

if you're going to choose an axiomatic metaphysical simplification of
the universe as a basis for theme design, at least derive it from the
home of the word 'Ubuntu'..

anyway, as Cory underscores, any efforts will not magically find their
way into Ubuntu without approval from Mark and friends. for this reason,
feel free to work away. maybe it'll be a hit.. 

however, i think it is wise - as has been suggested also - to form small
teams around discrete theme projects in order to get working, testable
themes actually finished and finished early. this will ensure they are
seen in the wild and thus perhaps garner the attention of those that
actually make the decision as to what ships.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Itrepid theme inspiration ?

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 05:14:22PM +0100, Sumit Agarwal said:
> I think both mock-up links presented (the Windows one and the Ubuntu 
> one) are really great examples, though they may be a touch too dark for 
> mainstream tastes (maybe I'm wrong. 

Human is already too /caramel/ for many tastes..

there is a curious conservatism at work i think here in Ubuntu Art.
Human was a risky design idea, that half-worked. the relative success of
this theme leaves Ubuntu Art leaders afraid of taking further design
risks. as a result, the graphical presentation of Ubuntu is stagnating
in its own prior bravery.

for the next release i think we'd all be wise to not cower away from the
possibility of widespread disappointment at shipping a radically new
theme - just as Human was when it was introduced. surely it cannot be
worse than promising great changes, as we all did, only to default back
to the known (for an LTS release). 

moreso, i think it's safe to generalise that people appreciate attempts
at improvement, being often far more generous in this respect than fear
would advise.

oh, i like both mockups.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Borderless windows: Goods and bads?

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 10:04:13PM -0700, Dylan McCall said:

> Simple screenshot to show off:
> http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/3945/yayfu2.png

just quickly i'd like to show my vote for that screenshot. it really
does 'open up' the desktop as you suggest, prioritising the application
content over the window manager. a frustrating thing about Human, and
GNOME in general is just how in-you-face all those title bars are - all
these horizontal stripes of rich colour, the density of which accumulate
with every new window. it really dominates far too much i think. it's
too heavy.

to these ends it would be good to see before-and-after screenshots with
several 'typical' applications open. it may help to make your case.

that said what is seen in your screenshot may not be at all practical -
especially for those that aren't power users and know the
minimise/maximise key combinations by heart.

regardless, it is refreshing to see.

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..on or around Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 10:04:13PM -0700, Dylan McCall said:
> Hi!
> 
> Sorry, this is a tad rambly, but I feel like pushing some thoughts...
> 
> I have spent a bit of time tinkering after discovering that I never use
> Metacity's window buttons. Pulled them out by editing metacity's stuff
> in gconf... I even tried removing the window titles by editing the
> theme, but it turns out I can't live without those. Changed to a
> different Metacity theme (Plano), although Human's theme was doing well
> with shrinking down the title bar. I think the results were quite
> striking. My thought was that programs usually have their own Close
> buttons and don't need the WM one. I hate redundancy, so naturally had
> to do it. (I also never use Minimize, instead bouncing windows to new
> workspaces when I don't need them for the task at hand. Need a button
> for that...)
> 
> The impact this fiddling has is kind of interesting: It makes me forget
> about windows and just see a program's own interface. Although people
> are pretty stuck in the crazy ways of window close buttons, I really
> think "simple" like this is how window decorations should be. By all
> means, they can add titles to my windows and work to keep them easy to
> tell apart, but far too many themes are instead striving to be noticed.
> Nobody cares about the window; it says nothing and is really just a
> superficial adjustment. The important part is the interface inside the
> window. Being noticable is the job of the GTK theme and only the GTK
> theme.
> 
> Something else that interested me was the effect of not having a border.
> Even with the same Human-Clearlooks GTK theme, having a different
> Metacity theme really made a difference. It kind of opened up my
> desktop, where the current Metacity theme seems to put everything into
> enclosed tanks, this one gives programs all the space available. I guess
> I could just go out and say "it looks Macish", although the same effect
> is possible with a theme that doesn't have the trademark silver gradient
> at the top. Besides which, the only thing Macish here is that it looks
> plain amazing.
> 
> Back in time even just a little, this type of theme was impossible
> because the way to get drop shadows was Compiz, but Metacity's simple
> compositor is finally bringing drop shadows to the masses! With drop
> shadows defining windows, we don't need borders except as little
> resizing handles...
> 
> Simple screenshot to show off:
> http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/3945/yayfu2.png
> 
> Another notable thing there, in my opinion, is what that still does for
> the GTK theme, even in its simplicity. This one is built to blend with
> the GTK theme, thus creating flow like we have with the rest of
> Clearlooks. However, this is finally a part of a window we can
> completely expect to be there, which is not the same for toolbars and
> menubars. With Human-Clearlooks, I can see trouble is being had in
> creating a flowing gradient because of that lack of predictability, but
> the effect can be achieved gracefully if the gradient happens with the
> Metacity theme. In essence, Plano is built to simply close the rough
> edges around GTK's presence, rather than to impose its own style on the
> windows.
> 
> Anyhow, I guess my point is that Metacity themes are very powerful
> things, and it would probably be worth pondering a fresh one for
> Intrepid Ibex. Obviously wouldn't fit Hardy, since the aim is not for a
> full theme re-imagining there and because Metacity's compositor is
> experimental at this point in time. However, I think Metacity themes
> could do with as much attention as GTK ones!
> 
> Bye,
> -Dylan



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Re: [ubuntu-art] creamlooks-gtk

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 04:35:34PM -0700, Sumit Agarwal said:
> It doesn't fall under K.I.S.S. because 90+% of users would never dream  
> that a keyboard button would function as a toggle upon the cursor.

then how does it somehow occur to them that ALT-LMB will grab a window?
that ALT-TAB cycles though windows?

> 
> If you can't get around just fine without a keyboard plugged in, you  
> haven't succeeded in your interface design. You wouldn't believe how  
> many Windows users are stunned when I use CTRL+C, CTRL+V, ALT+ESC, and  
> ALT+TAB. Despite these functions being present since time immemorial,  
> most people are still completely unaware of it.
> 
> Oh, and I have a TabletPC, so while I like keyboard shortcuts, I don't  
> like to be forced to use them ;)

the TabletPC is a case i hadn't considered. a solution may be to have
the cursor change to a resize graphic when the pointer is within 3
pixels of the window edge. this would also make it more apparent for
those transitioning from other windowing environments.

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> 
> 
> On Mar 21, 2008, at 3:45 PM, Julian Oliver wrote:
> 
> > ..on or around Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 01:00:22PM -0500, xl cheese said:
> >>
> >> There was a bug opened a while back about it being hard to resize  
> >> the window as it currently is design.  There was a suggestion to  
> >> make a transparent border that was thicker so it would be easier.   
> >> I think that bug was closed and labeled not a bug.
> >>
> >> With the new metacity supporting transparancy I wonder it it would  
> >> be possible to create a metacity with a thicker edge that was fully  
> >> transparent?
> >
> > it seems strange to me that the borders of windows would be made  
> > thicker
> > /all the time/ just so they could make better click targets when  
> > someone
> > needs to resize.
> >
> > why not just use a keyboard bind? hold down ALT when near an edge or
> > corner to resize. if within range (4 pixels) the cursor changes to a
> > resize cursor.
> >
> > it works with my current window manager just fine. GNOME should do it
> > too and free up those precious pixels - a lesson in K.I.S.S.
> >
> > cheers,
> >
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Re: [ubuntu-art] creamlooks-gtk

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 11:35:26PM +0100, Julian Oliver said:
> 
> personally, i prefer to use DWM as my primary work WM. in my setup i
> have 1 pixel thin border for all windows. when near the corner of any
> window i can simply hit ALT-LMB and the cursor changes to the resize
> cursor. it's simple. i really like it.
> 

oops, i meant ALT-RMB for resizing windows. ALT-LMB works just as it
does in GNOME.

chars,

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Re: [ubuntu-art] creamlooks-gtk

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 01:00:22PM -0500, xl cheese said:
> 
> There was a bug opened a while back about it being hard to resize the window 
> as it currently is design.  There was a suggestion to make a transparent 
> border that was thicker so it would be easier.  I think that bug was closed 
> and labeled not a bug.
> 
> With the new metacity supporting transparancy I wonder it it would be 
> possible to create a metacity with a thicker edge that was fully transparent?

it seems strange to me that the borders of windows would be made thicker
/all the time/ just so they could make better click targets when someone
needs to resize. 

why not just use a keyboard bind? hold down ALT when near an edge or
corner to resize. if within range (4 pixels) the cursor changes to a
resize cursor.

it works with my current window manager just fine. GNOME should do it
too and free up those precious pixels - a lesson in K.I.S.S.

cheers,

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Re: [ubuntu-art] creamlooks-gtk

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 12:46:03PM -0400, Cory K. said:
> Sumit Agarwal wrote:
> > I fully agree. I like the OS X border-less style, but of course that 
> > necessitates a compositing engine + drop shadows.
> >
> > I think a very minimal window border would go a long way to 
> > professionalizing and de-cartooning the GNOME desktop. As I see it right 
> > now, the wide borders reflect the very annoying hard-outlined GNOME 
> > style icons. This is a trend that seems to be self-perpetuating for no 
> > good reason (look at the icon sheets for Firefox 3. See the Linux set? 
> > Why are we making new icons that look like they're stuck in 1998?).
> >
> > -Sumit
> 
> Issue with this is you lose the ability to resize the windows properly.
> A less than 3px border is very hard to grab and 0px means only being
> able to grab the corners.

personally, i prefer to use DWM as my primary work WM. in my setup i
have 1 pixel thin border for all windows. when near the corner of any
window i can simply hit ALT-LMB and the cursor changes to the resize
cursor. it's simple. i really like it.

cheers,

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Re: [ubuntu-art] creamlooks-gtk

[Julian Oliver]

i don't understand why there is this pixel-eating, thick translucent
border around the windows. on laptops (which increasingly average at
1024x768 pixels) this would be especially impractical.

why not just do away with the strange exaggerated border?  it's like the
theme attempts minimalism but gets self-conscious about it along the
way. 

my 2 bytes.

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..on or around Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 01:17:52AM +0100, Sebastian Billaudelle 
said:
> Oops... sorry.!
> Here with the right subject!
> _
> 
> Hi there!
> 
> Here is my "official" announcement of my interpretation of the
> clearlooks-engine.
> My version is called creamlooks. Ut us based on clear-/xl_cheeselooks,
> but has some advantages:
> I. Bugfixes:
> In xl_cheeselooks there was a problem with windows with menubar but
> without toolbar. It was very ugly.
> 
> II. New "features":
> 1. I tried to change the menus and menubaritems that they look like one
> single widget (We discussed that before...). It works now.
> 2. I wanted to be as close as possible to Ken's Union-stuff. I think
> some parts looks very close to this...
> 3. The ugly (my opinion) patterns on the notebook-tabs are changed.
> 4. Most corners are a little bit less rounded.
> 
> You can download the stuff here:
> http://kieselsteinchen.ki.funpic.de/creamlooks.tar.gz
> 
> You can read more about it (screenshot...) here:
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/creamlooks
> 
> cheers Sebastian
> 
> P. S.: My modem is working now again...



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Re: [ubuntu-art] Some Themes Ideas

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 07:17:25PM +0100, Steph said:
> that way (DarkIce theme
> <http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Dark+Ice?content=69886>had
> a great success thanks to its union in the menubar and metacity
> border I think).

while i'm not a big fan of gloss, Darkice with less Porsche and more
Human might make an interesting experiment.

i appreciate that alternative to the tired old min/max/close icons..

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Ubuntulooks 2.0?

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Thu, Jan 10, 2008 at 02:53:07PM -0600, xl cheese said:
> It would look just like this:
> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/preview.php?preview=1&id=67957&file1=67957-1.jpg&file2=67957-2.jpg&file3=67957-3.jpg&name=Human+w%2Fgummy+clearlooks.++
> 

the caramel brown of the window title really clashes with the more
redder brown of the progress bars in that screenshot. anyone else agree?
it looks like they come from two completely different palettes..

the FWD/BACK arrows are from yet another palette altogether.  as with
the current Human theme, we see the same problem with the archive icon
on the desktop and the caramel folder colour.. this looks ugly and
hacked together. 

for the next iteration of the default theme, i'd be just as happy with a
unified colour palette of the above proposal as i would a whole new
design direction. we've seen some great palettes posted to this list in
the last couple of weeks. why not just pick one and run with it? 

there's not much time left - perhaps a sane move at this late stage.

cheers,

julian


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Re: [ubuntu-art] MeMaker Theme Feedback Request

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Tue, Jan 08, 2008 at 10:07:49PM +0100, Thorsten Wilms said:
> Hi!
> 
> I'm working on a semi-realistic MeMaker theme and could use some
> feedback. I have been staring so long at this ... somehow it seems to be
> off but I can't quite put my finger on it.
> 
> http://thorwil.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/memaker_face_08.jpg

because both eyes are the same size and dimension on the pixel plane 
- yet the portrait is in turned pose - the face appears 'flat'. 
this is reinforced by the fact we use the eyes as a primary reference
when looking at a face: it doesn't matter that other elements might be
in balance.

taper off the right corner of the right eye to reflect the fact our
faces are curved, not flat. as another poster suggests, also move the
left eye down a little and all should be well. 

cheers,

julian

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Re: [ubuntu-art] "Union" Theme

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Tue, Dec 25, 2007 at 12:35:15PM +0100, Álvaro Medina Ballester 
said:
> 
> 2.- Maybe transparency in the active window will not work well, and the
> background colour of the "content area" should be white (I mean, the place
> where there will be the icons if you're on nautilus or your working area if
> you are running another app).
> 
> 3.- It's hard to know which window is the active window, maybe using some
> darker colour would help.

i'd second these above two points..

(a great mockup nonetheless)

julian

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Re: [ubuntu-art] "Union" Theme

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Tue, Dec 25, 2007 at 12:58:17AM -0500, Ken Vermette said:
> A few days back I said I'd create a theme based from my own work:
> 

> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Union

what i really like about this is:

  it's actually feasible.

  the softness shared across windows, desktop and panels will 'push forward' 
  window contents, including text, acting as a natural focal lens of sorts.
  previously, the sheer density of colour framed the window contents too
  agressively.

  the subtle delimiting line around the window edge 'floats' the window
  itself in a way that is fresh and elegant. nice work.

  i think you've really resolved the menu transparency and gradiant
  problem seen in previous iterations.

  this will also theme really well i think (a steely dark theme would 
  look great and perhaps provide contrast desired by some).

congrats.. from my position this is a winner.

the background image colour could be brought in line with the aforementioned 
reference mockup:

> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/BasicIdeals

that said, what you have achieved is much 'warmer', if that is at all a
goal.. 

i'm curious to see how this would look with an existant dark background.

what do you intend to do with the buttons? they, i thought, didn't have
such well chosen colours in your previous mockups, reminiscent of
that-other-operating-system.

Feliz Navidad,

julian oliver

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Anyone Remember this idea?

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Fri, Dec 21, 2007 at 03:40:31PM -0800, Troy James Sobotka said:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> xl cheese wrote:
> > I thought is was a good use of brown.
> > 
> > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2620273#post2620273
> 
> 
> Seriously folks, look at the details on this:
> 
> 1) It is completely devoid of any concept or goal.
> 2) It resorts to the already vacuous and tripey
>'swervy curleys'.
> 3) It is yet _again_ monochromatic and monotonous.
> 

yet it got 18 pages of praise by Ubuntu users, for the choice of 
colour palette especially. it's worth listening to that.

it doesn't promise to have a roadmap, it's just a brief experiment
posted on a whim by a forum member: a mockup.

the AWN-like dock is completely unrealistic of course, as i said in a
previous email. nonetheless the overall balance of colour is appealing
to many people: reading the comments i get the feeling people are
looking for less colour rather than more of it..

julian

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Anyone Remember this idea?

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Fri, Dec 21, 2007 at 05:19:04PM -0800, Ken Vermette said:
> The idea of combining the themes has me curious. Although the theme we could
> see coming out of it might be less bold or concepty (is that even a word?),
> I could see something like that being a much more popular theme...
> 
> I'm going to try a meshing of the two and see what we get. Expect results
> tomorrow or the day after. I'm also going to make this theme one possible
> with current technology - without the need for additional libraries.
> 
> It will only take me a short time to make it, but if it proves more popular
> than "Basic Ideals" I'll put my other projects on hiatus to complete the new
> theme.

great stuff Ken. looking forward to it..

julian

> 
> On Dec 21, 2007 1:10 PM, Álvaro Medina Ballester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> 
> > The wallpaper is amazing, the shades are great, but the shutdown button is
> > not usable and don't fits well with the theme.
> > Mixing this colour scheme with Ken's ideas would be amazing.
> >
> > 2007/12/21, xl cheese <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> > >
> > > I tweaked the colors on my theme and slapped the brown wallpaper on
> > > it.  I also recently discovered the "inverted" button effect with the
> > > clearlooks engine and like them quite a bit.
> > >
> > > Be sure to click on the full size view:
> > >
> > > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/SmoothMergedGradients#preview
> > > 
> > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > To: ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> > > > Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:58:11 -0600
> > > > Subject: [ubuntu-art] Anyone Remember this idea?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I thought is was a good use of brown.
> > > >
> > > > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2620273#post2620273
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _
> > > > Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!
> > > > http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_wlhmtextlink1_dec
> > > > --
> > > > ubuntu-art mailing list
> > > > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> > > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
> > >
> > > _
> > > i'm is proud to present Cause Effect, a series about real people making
> > > a difference.
> > > http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_Cause_Effect
> > > --
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> > > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Álvaro.
> >
> > --
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> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Anyone Remember this idea?

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Fri, Dec 21, 2007 at 02:58:11PM -0600, xl cheese said:
> 
> I thought is was a good use of brown.
> 
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2620273#post2620273

i just ran through the 15 pages of comments on this mockup. while most of 
it is praise from users, there are some valuable responses, one or two of 
which are in the form of theme suggestions/mockups.

julian

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Anyone Remember this idea?

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Fri, Dec 21, 2007 at 02:58:11PM -0600, xl cheese said:
> 
> I thought is was a good use of brown.
> 
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2620273#post2620273

yeah, i agree.

the mockups we've seen here recently are too rich and heavy for my tastes. 
this is far less intrusive, it 'backgrounds itself' so to speak, and
would as such allow window contents (the work people do) to step
forward.

it also has a strong sense of form without deferring to cheap gloss: that 
top panel shadow could also be faked just fine on a compiz incapable 
machine..

the bottom panel though looks well beyond the scope of GTK/Gnome of
course..

the designer has talent, especially for overall colour weighting/balancing.
is/was he/she a list member?

cheers,

julian

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Ubuntu Mockup

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Wed, Dec 19, 2007 at 01:10:13AM +0100, Thomas L.G said:
> Oh well since we're all mocking up now, let me throw in a suggestion as 
> well:
> http://www.portefolje.net/div/mockup.jpg
> 
> Based on Ken's suggestion on this list. Some modifications (darker top 
> area + some reflection, hover, consistent menus, dark notifications with 
> some reflection). Another wallpaper (stock-image from sxc.hu), and 
> another top-panel. Please ignore the ugly notification-icons at top 
> right and other glitches - it is all just photoshop mocking! Also, I 
> didn't make any minimize/maximize-icons yet, I really don't think we 
> should use the Vista-like ones...
> 

hehe, i thought the absense of buttons was deliberate.

i like the idea of having no visible Minimise/Maximise/Close buttons 
when a window is inactive.. this reduces the graphical complexity of the
desktop - something that should be encouraged where possible.

this of course would require that they become active on a mouse-over
event without bringing that whole window into focus. perhaps impossible
in the current windowing context.

cheers,

julian

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> 
> AA Boy skrev:
> > Oops, for some reason teh link got deleted. Oh well, here it is again! :D
> > http://www.smartboy.salocinlinux.org/db/ubuntu-mockup.png
> >
> > On 12/18/07, *Corey Woodworth* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > > wrote:
> >
> > It looks invisible to me.
> >
> > On Dec 18, 2007 4:32 PM, AA Boy < [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > wrote:
> >
> > I have been thinking about what I would like Ubuntu to look
> > like, and made a mockup. Pretty much every shape in this
> > except the panel background and wallpaper is made using SVGs.
> > I may supply sources latter if anyone is interested in them. I
> > didn't do windows yet (since I use Enlightenment, and don't
> > want to change GNOME's theme right now), but I think this may
> > be enough to start with. Anyway, please comment. I tried to
> > make this a pleasing black/brown/orange theme.
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> > 
> >
> >
> >
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> > 
> >
> >
> 
> 
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Re: [ubuntu-art] [Ubuntu-Art] Hardy GTK theme

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Wed, Nov 07, 2007 at 12:10:54PM -0500, Matthew Nuzum said:
> On Nov 7, 2007 12:14 AM, Troy James Sobotka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> IMHO, I like these:
> http://guentherbeyer.de/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/ubuntu_804_theme_test_02b.png

agreed. this is the best use of black (in itself) i've seen on this list
so far. the soft matte gradiant is very easy on the eyes - a most important 
characteristic. i also like how that black isn't pretending to be some
corporeal material, like glass or chrome. 

it also shows-up just how caramel and glossy the existing icon
theme is..

what is the best candidate we have right now for an icon replacement?

julian

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theming Hardy Heron

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 11:37:14PM +1300, tonic said:
> This theme was posted before but I've got a screenshot of it with the
> human icons and an appropriate background.
> 
> http://picasaweb.google.com/ghatanothoa/CurrentProjects/photo#5130780973349261154
> 
> The black window decoration with orange widgets and menu bar really give
> the theme pizazz. Also, it fits exceptionally well with the current icon
> styling.

i don't know. it just looks too rich/dominant/aggressive for me to ever
be able to work with for longer than an hour. it says "look at me!" not
"make yourself comfortable".

i don't mind the top panel too much, but the contrast between the orange file 
menu and the window title bar is needlessly demanding of attention. 

remember it's all very well providing a screenshot of just one window open, but 
that's not what a typical desktop looks like. we ought to be comparing
screenshots with many windows and popular programs open to get a sense
of the theme's success overall. 

in that screenshot there's just one window, hence just one orange and black 
stripe. many windows is many orange and black stripes. is that what you
want to look at all day?

a good interface should go unnoticed for almost of the time. the last
thing you want it your desktop to be a dramatic work of Art in itself. 

cheers,

julian

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Hardy GTK Theme

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Tue, Nov 06, 2007 at 09:42:58AM +, Neil J Patel said:
> 
> A friend pointed me to this thread, I'm the author of those mockups :-).

congrats.

> 
> I've never really had the time to work on this, life stuff keeps
> getting in the way, but if anyone does take it forward, I'd definitely
> like to help out, either by coding or designing more complete
> mock-ups.
> 
> Two  things thats missing from these mockups is that, with the recent
> advances in Gtk with transparency, it'll be nice to have the theme
> manipulate the transparency of things like dialog & configuration
> windows (obviously it has no effect if in a non-composited
> environment). Secondly, I think that animations are quite important
> now, like while hovering over a button, it would pulse.
> 

lovely, and perfectly doable too i'd imagine.

even your snap:

  http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/382776014/

.. provides plenty of material to begin basing a truly new look for Hardy.

cheers and welcome,

julian

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Hardy GTK Theme

[Julian Oliver]

coming in a bit late on this one but would just like to second support
of Patels diagonal gradiants: if we are to have them at all then they
are the best i've seen yet.

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..on or around Sun, Nov 04, 2007 at 10:01:02PM +0100, Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen 
said:
> I must be honest and say that I have not seen anything yet that I think is
> really original. Sorry guys.
> 
> Some of the best mockups I've seen is an old collection of Neil J Patels,
> which can be seen here:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/tags/avantthemeengine/ The
> interesting thing is those diagonal reflections IMHO. I have not seen that
> anywhere else, and it looks quite nice.
> 
> Observations from Neils mockups:
> 
>  * The subtle drop shadows on the widgets make them stand out really nicely
> - see http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/382776014/
> 
>  * In the link above notice the diagonal reflections.
> 
>  * This progressbar looks really really good together with rest of the
> theme: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/382776017/. The groove 
> in
> which it expands could be better though.
> 
> The theme engine is still not implemented though. It does however look like
> it should be easy to hack Murrine or Aurora to support those diagonal
> reflections.
> 
> Cheers,
> Mikkel

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Re: [ubuntu-art] New Theme / A great mockup

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Sat, Sep 01, 2007 at 12:16:42AM +0200, Steph said:
> It has also been said that this
> mockup

this is the best mockup i have seen so far. i'm not a fan of the OS\X like
dock at all, but the overall remaining approach is very good.

the colour palette used has strong internal consistency, unlike the
current desktop which is quite confused in that respect.

perhaps the author could be contacted and brought on board as the art
director for a proposed refurbishment of the default theme?

julian

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Re: [ubuntu-art] First idea ...

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Wed, Aug 15, 2007 at 12:35:08AM +0530, Ravi Shanker said:
> I agree, you put a good point. Atleast, we should have some wallpapers
> which reveals the brand Ubuntu without the text or logo of Ubuntu.

yep, just like the wallpaper on this page does very well:

  http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/desktopedition

i think you're right in saying that a good wallpaper should take it's
colour palette (highlights included) from the windows and icons
themselves. 

as it stands, there is quite a bit of dissonance between the bright 
(almost 'salmon') wallpaper in Feisty and the caramel window decorations.

it's possible to produce a palette from an image. a good place to
start might be generating a palette from a screenshot of Ubuntu with
the file-manager and perhaps the applications menu open. pick the 
darkest colours in the palette and work from there.

one thing that is clear is that dark wallpapers are easier on the eye
(and more energy efficient on CRT's). moreso a dark desktop puts the
windows themselves (where stuff is actually done) in the foreground.

just as wallpaper in a house shouldn't be a great work of eye-catching art,
nor should it be on the desktop. its job is to work as graphic atmosphere, 
not function as a picture in itself.

cheers,

julian

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> 
> On Tue, 2007-08-14 at 12:10 +0200, Julian Oliver wrote:
> > ..on or around Mon, Jul 30, 2007 at 09:40:56AM +0200, Filipe DA COSTA said:
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > Here you have my first idea for a wallpaper:
> > > 
> > > http://www.play.lu/host/test_01_002.jpg
> > > 
> > > I try to find a perfect color combination for an orange/brown theme. For 
> > > now this orange-to-blue seems not that bad ...
> > > 
> > > Comments welcome ...
> > 
> > why must the Ubuntu logo be in the desktop, let alone the word "Ubuntu"?.
> > 
> > isn't this 'over-branding'? is the 'brand' of Ubuntu so weak it must be
> > pushed in the face of the user over and over again?
> > 
> > i'd like to see designs that back-off a little, allow the desktop to belong 
> > to the user's imagination for a moment instead of Canonical's.
> > 
> > people know they're running Ubuntu when it's on their computer. we don't
> > need to remind them from boot to desktop. 
> > 
> > i think it comes across as a bit desperate, an over-bearing need to be 
> > recognised.
> > 
> > cheers,
> > 
> > julian
> > 
> > -- 
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> > 
> > 
> > 




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Re: [ubuntu-art] First idea ...

[Julian Oliver]

..on or around Mon, Jul 30, 2007 at 09:40:56AM +0200, Filipe DA COSTA said:
> Hi,
> 
> Here you have my first idea for a wallpaper:
> 
> http://www.play.lu/host/test_01_002.jpg
> 
> I try to find a perfect color combination for an orange/brown theme. For 
> now this orange-to-blue seems not that bad ...
> 
> Comments welcome ...

why must the Ubuntu logo be in the desktop, let alone the word "Ubuntu"?.

isn't this 'over-branding'? is the 'brand' of Ubuntu so weak it must be
pushed in the face of the user over and over again?

i'd like to see designs that back-off a little, allow the desktop to belong 
to the user's imagination for a moment instead of Canonical's.

people know they're running Ubuntu when it's on their computer. we don't
need to remind them from boot to desktop. 

i think it comes across as a bit desperate, an over-bearing need to be 
recognised.

cheers,

julian

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Thoughts on future interface/artwork

[Julian Oliver]

..on Sun, Feb 25, 2007 at 04:46:53PM +0200, PetriceanuA wrote:
> OK, this is my first post over here. Is this the right place to post this?
> 
> I have been browsing ubuntuforums.org for a while, especially the Feisty 
> development section. Have been an enthusiastic Ubuntu user since Dapper. I 
> was quite satisfied then with the interface, however, I have seen that no 
> major interface changes have occured since 6.06 and can predict that Feisty 
> will be no exception. I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings, but the 
> artwork team should be doing a much better job especially now, when more and 
> more users are switching to Ubuntu. The artwork evolution is stagnating, the 
> only new and nice idea I have seen is the Edgy beta artwork which did not 
> make it to the final release unfortunately.
> Even though Ubuntu's interface can be easily changed in a second, but when 
> switching to Linux from Windows for example, first impression means quite a 
> lot. And by first impression I mean the default interface, which appears in 
> all kinds of reviews, screenshot galleries and at ubuntu.com. If we take the 
> average Linux newbie, he/she listens to his/her heart [interface] not to the 
> real things [performance, stability etc.] because he/she does not have 
> technical knowledge on this area. How should he/she know about Beryl and 
> Compiz or other stuff? We are tlaking about newbies here and Ubuntu is mainly 
> targeted to newbies and intermediates. And many distros like Sabayon for 
> example have more default eye candy than Ubuntu has, and since bandwith is 
> cheap nowadays, users might prefer it more.
> In ubuntuforums.org I have visited the topics about the new artwork Feisty 
> has, and noticed that the most critiques were referring to: 
> -the lack of consistency in startup GUI [boot+GDM+desktop]
> -the pinkish colors
> -the lack of process log on the bootscreen
> -the exaggerated and useless simplicity of the panels and wallpaper
> 
> So I've grabbed Photoshop, and after an hour and a half and several snacks 
> and 2 liters of coke I've came up with these.
> 
> 1. The bootup screen 
> (http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ubuntubootaltyd7.png)
> As you see, it is very minimalistic. I have read that less content on the 
> bootscreen reduces boot time, so only the ubuntu logo and the progress bar is 
> displayed. The event log only shows the current operation Ubuntu handles and 
> can be deactivated by pressing .
> The progress bar takes the full width of the screen, and by increasing its 
> length, users get the impression of higher speed as the progress bar advances 
> quicklier than on the current bootscreens. Very slick.


love the splash. great to see a designer that has faith in the Ubuntu logo. 
you don't need the word 'Ubuntu' next to the logo all the time, it's simply 
redundant and expresses a lack of confidence in the image of Ubuntu, as
a brand.

> 
> 2. The GDM 
> theme(http://img404.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ubuntuloginaltie8.png)
> On all OS releases except Mac OS X it can be notuced a gaping hole between 
> the bootscreen and the login screen. In order to solve this problem on 
> Ubuntu, I opted for a black GDM theme. The Ubuntu logo is in the same 
> position, now has a very subtile reflection, and on the right side it is 
> grouped the login information and the text box with a nice fade in the 
> background. All users need to know can find here, the options menu and the 
> computer info is near, so it is more visible, and no large mouse moves are 
> necessary to turn off the computer for example. You see the subtile chocolate 
> curves in the background? They are part of the consistency. The GDM theme has 
> a lighter overall feeling, the whole interface gets lighter as the user 
> advances trough the starting-up process.

don't really like the slanted 'p' and nor the offset login fields. 

people will look in the center, probably also where the last predominant
image was, the logo. to shift it is to stress them with surprise.

why must these fields have a box around them and also, why must the Ubuntu
logo be present when logging in? we've just seen it and will see it
again soon. no need to hammer it down people's throats.

> 
> 3. The splash 
> screen(http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ubuntusplashalt3ra3.png)
>

i like the splash, far better than the five minute job doing the rounds
right now:

  http://popey.com/Ubuntu_is_sexy_alright

so say it's 'phallic' is pushing it a bit, but to say it's lazy and uses
gimp's gradiant tool gratuitously is not. 

yours is far more resolved and uncomplicated.

> 4. The desktop(http://img93.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ubuntudeskaltba3.png)
> The overall desktop is friendly. The wallpaper uses the colors of cherry 
> wood/chocholate, which users can feel more close to the home feeling than the 
> alien pinkish hue Feisty currently has. Now, as the starting-up process is 
> over, the desktop is fully enlightened and ready for the use

Re: [ubuntu-art] panel background

[Julian Oliver]

i like it. i'd roll with that for sure..

julian

..on Wed, Sep 27, 2006 at 04:05:46PM +0200, effraie wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> i updated the page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/EffraiePanel
> with a white version
> 
> comments are welcome
> 
> ??tienne Bersac a ??crit :
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Since Metacity human theme is also brown, a brown panel is the wrong
> > choice. The same tile, but white would rock.
> > 
> > ??tienne.
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
> 
> iD8DBQFFGoU6DZrS/Pzxy5oRArONAJ9FNrXyhpgSqiglsmarNoNu8HmDlwCeN8Oq
> VLxtyWg6o5aFVCVI3DcuxVQ=
> =nl+W
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> 
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Knot 3 Wallpaper - comment

[Julian Oliver]

consider also that it may not be at all bad. 

perhaps the potential for unconscious recognition would make some 
considering migrating from Windows XP feel Ubuntu feel oddly at home 
when they see that sweeping cross on the desktop ;)

julian

..on Tue, Sep 26, 2006 at 11:40:59AM +0200, Michiel Sikma wrote:
> That is total nonsense. It's a very good wallpaper, and I don't think  
> that the balance its composition currently holds should be  
> compromised because a design element vaguely reminds you of a logo.  
> That's just silly.
> 
> Michiel
> 
> Op 26-sep-2006, om 11:38 heeft Julian Oliver het volgende geschreven:
> 
> >..on Mon, Sep 25, 2006 at 01:13:29PM +0200, Andreas Haller wrote:
> >>Hi,
> >>
> >>i just saw the new Wallpaper for Edgy Knot3
> >>(http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/knot3) and wanted to tell you that the
> >>"cross" on the left side reminded me of the windows logo.
> >
> >i agree. i didn't see it at first, but my wife did, and pointed it  
> >out.
> >now it's there i can't shake it ;)
> >
> >julian
> >
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Knot 3 Wallpaper - comment

[Julian Oliver]

..on Tue, Sep 26, 2006 at 11:40:59AM +0200, Michiel Sikma wrote:
> That is total nonsense. It's a very good wallpaper, and I don't think  
> that the balance its composition currently holds should be  
> compromised because a design element vaguely reminds you of a logo.  
> That's just silly.

it may very well be a visual virus of sorts, one that once infected it's
hard to shake it off - like seeing an animal in a cloud. i don't doubt that for
many or most it is completely non-existant.

anyway, here's the Windows 'cross' for reference:


http://images.google.de/images?svnum=10&hl=de&lr=&q=windows+xp+wallpaper&btnG=Suche

julian

> 
> Michiel
> 
> Op 26-sep-2006, om 11:38 heeft Julian Oliver het volgende geschreven:
> 
> >..on Mon, Sep 25, 2006 at 01:13:29PM +0200, Andreas Haller wrote:
> >>Hi,
> >>
> >>i just saw the new Wallpaper for Edgy Knot3
> >>(http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/knot3) and wanted to tell you that the
> >>"cross" on the left side reminded me of the windows logo.
> >
> >i agree. i didn't see it at first, but my wife did, and pointed it  
> >out.
> >now it's there i can't shake it ;)
> >
> >julian
> >
> >-- 
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> >
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Knot 3 Wallpaper - comment

[Julian Oliver]

..on Mon, Sep 25, 2006 at 01:13:29PM +0200, Andreas Haller wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> i just saw the new Wallpaper for Edgy Knot3
> (http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/knot3) and wanted to tell you that the
> "cross" on the left side reminded me of the windows logo.

i agree. i didn't see it at first, but my wife did, and pointed it out.
now it's there i can't shake it ;)

julian

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Re: [ubuntu-art] lsplashes based on Dapper GDM + GDM Logo

[Julian Oliver]

ok, after that criticism i'll try and actually make some constructive
suggestions ;)

why not just have the Ubuntu logo, eg sans "ubuntu" in the splash?

the user already knows they are running an OS called 'Ubuntu' at that stage as
they've seen the name in the bootsplash. in this way use of the name in
the GDM splash is redundant, providing us with an opportunity to push forward a
second stage of familiarity, that of 'brand' recognition.

by just featuring the logo itself in the GDM splash could give first encounters 
with 
Ubuntu, from grub to desktop, a greater sense of self-confidence, keeping words 
(names)
'out-of-the-picture' where unnecessary. in some cases the K.I.S.S model
can serve design outcomes well and i think this is one of these cases.

julian

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Re: [ubuntu-art] lsplashes based on Dapper GDM + GDM Logo

[Julian Oliver]

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/EdgyArtworkPlan/Produce/Incoming/WhoDefaultAttemptsFailSafe

IMO the bevel on that splash is not good and the colours give it a sepia
'aged' effect. 

unfortunately, i think the current splash is simply fresher and cleaner. 
the danger of using a bevel like that is that it appears as a brass plaque, 
eg metallic and ornamental, in the old-fashioned sense.

julian

..on Wed, Sep 20, 2006 at 08:40:24PM +0100, Who wrote:
> Thanks a lot :)
> 
> The big gap was because I exported the 'drawing' not the 'page' in
> inkscape for image number 10 and 17, there were large gaps because
> this was empty - I have fixed it now I am back on my PC and uploaded a
> new version :)
> 
> On 9/20/06, Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Tue, 2006-09-19 at 22:00 +0100, Who wrote:
> > > I have put a tarball up on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JonathanAustin of
> > > lsplashes that are based on the Dapper lsplash with the aim of
> > > incorporating elements of the Dapper GDM - particularly the logo
> > >
> > > For various reasons I cannot montage them now  but if someone could
> > > run montage on them (something like montage --label %f --geometry
> > > --tile 1 100%x100%+10+10 Who_FAILSAFE_* lsplashes.jpg - can't confirm,
> > > no imagemagic here - sorry)
> > >
> > > Hope you like them
> >
> > I created an attachment to your wiki page.
> >
> > I had some troubles with montage though... If I included *.png (as I
> > did) it insisted to create a huge gap between image and label...
> >
> > Anyway, it's there :-D
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Mikkel
> >
> >
> 
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Re: [ubuntu-art] New Wallpaper proposal

[Julian Oliver]

i also dislike the current Knot3 wallpaper alot. it's both boring and
un-original, especially when seen as a brown version of the blue
wallpaper predominating on OSX. this is a comment/criticism i've heard
several times of Dapper's default wallpaper. we need to break out and be
bold. this is what people expect from Edgy, so let's give it to them.

i think that some of the wallpapers in the link you provide (though i don't
know which are yours) are very good candidates, especially:


https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/EdgyProposals/WallpaperProposal?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=wallpaper_junel_hotbrown.png

that's classy and proud stuff. nice one.

this image is contemporary and original. it says Ubuntu is a fun and
imaginative place for spending time.


https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/EdgyProposals/WallpaperProposal?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ubuntu-trees2_small.png

this one i also like, though it seems more suitable as a splash,
probably due to the aversion most have to staring at a bright surface:


https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/EdgyProposals/WallpaperProposal?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=wallpaper_junel_light.png

anyway, the best wallpapers for Ubuntu i've seen so far.

cheers,

julian

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..on Sun, Sep 17, 2006 at 02:09:11AM +0200, ?lvaro Medina Ballester wrote:
> Hi everyone! I've made a wallpaper for ubuntu edgy eft human theme, you can
> find it 
> here.
> My idea is that the distinctive area on the desktop must be the panel so I
> designed this simply and clean wallpaper. Also I find that the ubuntu logo
> must be in the panel, not in the wallpaper. Please feel free to criticize
> the work!
> 
> 
> Sincerely, ?lvaro.
> 
> 
> PD: the wallpaper is made 1600x1200 with The Gimp and I have both xcf and
> png available.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] That's a wrap everyone!

[Julian Oliver]

..on Thu, Jun 01, 2006 at 08:39:17PM +0200, Michiel Sikma wrote:
> 
> I guess we're on the same page, then. I think I misunderstood your first 
> post to the mailing list, actually. Sorry about that.
> 

bah don't worry about it. text is better for talking to computers than
to people. sounds like we are on the same page.

> You're actually right that there's little feedback from the community. 
> I've been thinking of starting a blog about Ubuntu artwork development 
> which would then hopefully be an easy reference point as to what's going 
> on for the community. I should work on that. Might be a nice idea.

that'd be great, awesome even!

julian

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Re: [ubuntu-art] That's a wrap everyone!

[Julian Oliver]

..on Thu, Jun 01, 2006 at 06:30:20PM +0200, Michiel Sikma wrote:
> 
> Op 1-jun-2006, om 18:27 heeft Tom Moitie het volgende geschreven:
> 
> >Julian isn't saying that the users should be choosing the direction  
> >that
> >the Ubuntu artwork should go, but to gain critique from them, so that
> >you, as the designers, can make better choices. Listening to people  
> >who
> >don't know what they're doing doesn't mean you have to follow what  
> >they
> >want. You guys are, of course, the graphical designers.
> 
> That's right. Like I said, I do think that it's a very good idea to  
> work with the community so that we may get feedback from them, but I  
> don't think that it's right to put much weight on such opinions.  
> Julian's mail made kind of made it seem so, but I guess he too thinks  
> that community votes don't make up a good final decision.

i don't necessarily think community wide votes should direct which art
is shipped with Ubuntu. such voting schemes are riddled with all sorts
of problems, the first being there are always some that are inclined to 
vote and many that aren't. 

i do however think a steady stream of opinion on the state of the Ubuntu artwork
would be extremely useful for designers - wherever it comes from. 
having a wishlist and or opinions forum focussed on artwork alone 
(not issues relating to Ubuntu more generally) would also (importantly) 
give users the confidence of a central context for being heard - with no
promise of implementation. as a bonus, this can only strengthen user good-will. 

currently such suggestions/opinions/criticisms are offered as bugs or randomly 
dispersed throughout threads in blogs and user forums.

naturally there would be alot of feedback that isn't useful. i'm sure however 
there'd be some insights that would be very difficult to reach from the 
perspective of a designer.

how many hard-of-seeing people to we have telling us how brilliant our
high-visibility theme is for instance? 

julian

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Re: [ubuntu-art] That's a wrap everyone!

[Julian Oliver]

..on Thu, Jun 01, 2006 at 02:26:29PM +0200, Michiel Sikma wrote:
> 
> I don't think that's a very good idea. We need to select a theme  
> based on good discussion about the propositions in which we provide  
> good arguments. We're all graphic designers, so we know what  
> usability means and what visual identification is all about. At the  
> risk of sounding elitist, I really don't think it's a good idea to  
> let the community get that involved in our work.

that's treading down a dangerous and foolish path. 

a designer that doesn't listen to their audience is in danger of
obsolence through self-rarification.

Ubuntu and it's software is for the user. therefore, as a useability target, 
their opinions must be configured within the design process; it is only logical 
that they have influence over the end product, if only on the level they 
provide 
a rich (and potentially diverse) pool of critique.

Apple, for instance, has really messed up there, by coming up with an
Empirical model of Useability that simply doesn't work across the board.
tooth and nail they fight for that broken helper app called the Finder yet
their _users_ beg for them to replace it with something that actually
works (ever counted the mouse clicks it takes to perform the
same/similar task across OSX and Ubuntu?).

Microsoft, on the other hand, hasn't listened to their users whatsoever.

Ubuntu is in an ideal position to break this design hegemony and
actively configure user opinion within the design process.

> 
> All the times I've tried to get people who don't really know much  
> about designing get involved with any work, whether it's print, web  
> or art, I've been let down because even though you'd expect those  
> people to be able to give a fully unbiased review from an outsider's  
> point of view, they really just will either approve or disprove of  
> whatever you've made based on ridiculous criteria.
> 

people don't have to know about semiotics and colour theory to know what
they like to use/look at day in, day out. 

i support the idea for creating a user-->designer feedback stream, 
if only as a valuable (even necessary) point of reference.

julian

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Re: [ubuntu-art] // External opinions on Ubuntu Art //

[Julian Oliver]

..on Tue, May 30, 2006 at 02:51:45PM +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote:
> Julian Oliver wrote:
> > i lecture and give workshops at a few Design academies around the EU, 
> > but focus more on interactive art and game development using FOSS. 
> > if there was interest, i could talk it over with a department head and
> > plan a day-long class excercise. i think students would love it - both
> > play with and critique a whole new OS for a day.
> >   
> 
> I think this group would very much appreciate that sort of analysis,
> especially if it could be folded into a single top down review of Human
> as part of the Edgy planning process.

ok great, i'll make it a priority to get in contact with a few design
schools i am involved with (or have contacts within) and let you all know how i 
get on.

if anyone else has any contacts within an academy in their area (even
via a friend) let us know about it in this thread. 

until then it may be good to start a "ubuntu art crit" wiki page and isolate
key areas we're interested in getting feedback on, while leaving room
for people's wider opinions to be voiced.

cheers,

julian

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Re: [ubuntu-art] // External opinions on Ubuntu Art //

[Julian Oliver]

..on Wed, May 31, 2006 at 12:38:13AM +1000, Pascal Klein wrote:
> 
> I'd like add that perhaps it would be useful, especially as a
> comparison, to do a similar things to people who are new to Ubuntu and
> do not have any design training ie. an average end-user.

there's a good idea..

> 
> I think that asking end-users what they think of various design
> elements, without describing the reasons for the interfaces and artwork
> being done in the particular way done and noting the feedback and
> comments would be good.
> 

true, this would incorporate user feedback directly into the design
process. keeping it real so to speak ;)


> For example take a 50 year old person who uses computers to remain in
> touch with his or her younger relatives via email and does online
> browsing work such as banking or reading. Asking them about:
> 
> * the artwork they like the most (icon set, metacity theme and so forth)
> and why
> * the way the menus are done and their contents
> * names for features and functions
> * colouration
> * accessibility
> 
> and so forth could be integrated here.
> 
> Of course, I suppose such ventures have probably already been
> undertaken, however I want to differ somewhat by suggesting asking them
> [the user] about the artwork is just as important as asking them about
> such issues as the accessibility.
> 

true. i saw a clip a while back that i think Novell put together to
document useability analysis sessions with people that had actually never 
touched
Linux at all. it was truly cringe-worthy at times, but only because it 
revealed the extent of what any Linux user takes for granted.

interestingly observing newbies often reveals alot of positive surprises. 
a member of my family that doesn't like computers at all found some peace 
with Ubuntu 6 months ago. when i asked her what she liked about it her 
first comment was "I like that I don't have to go to websites to install 
software".

package managment cherished by the n00b? shock horror ;)

julian

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[ubuntu-art] // External opinions on Ubuntu Art //

[Julian Oliver]

hi list,

i think it may be useful to produce some objectivity on the state of the
art at this stage. by this i mean offering Ubuntu art up for some rigorous 
external 
critique! as it stands the only feedback we get is from forum rants, the 
occassional article 
and friends. alot of this feedback is unspecific and lacking the kind of 
trained description.
that is useful to the Ubuntu artists themselves.

one context for doing this would be to introduce Ubuntu as the subject
of a design crit at a Design academy, where a big class of students
would spend a day on the Live CD going through the art with a
fine-tooth-comb covering everything from colour palettes, icon design and 
distribution, overall continuity, interface semiotics - from boot to shutdown.

perhaps we could open up a page on a wiki for them to edit directly,
and provide topics with which to comment and grade aspects of the art
we're interested in hearing about. we could share this output with
ubuntu-desktop simultaneously.

i lecture and give workshops at a few Design academies around the EU, 
but focus more on interactive art and game development using FOSS. 
if there was interest, i could talk it over with a department head and
plan a day-long class excercise. i think students would love it - both
play with and critique a whole new OS for a day.

ideally we'd do this with a few schools at the same time.

julian

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Human or Tangerine for Dapper by default?

[Julian Oliver]

..on Fri, May 26, 2006 at 09:57:33AM -0400, Jean Pierre Rupp wrote:
> I must say I downloaded today the new artwork upgrade, and the Human
> icons have polished the few rough edges there were. Now it looks much
> better. They've done a great work indeed.

i'd say it's 90% there for sure - it does look great.

that said there are still many 'alien' icons in the set that do add some 
noise to the artwork overall (laptop AC/bat icon and 'support' icons for 
instance). 
similarly panel icon placement is obviously a bit poor (look at the 
logout button for instance, it's not 'centered' - a pixel or two away from the 
top 
of the panel). 

considering where Ubuntu was 6 weeks ago however, it's a gigantic improvement.

congrats all!

julian

> 
> El vie, 26-05-2006 a las 11:18 +0200, Michiel Sikma escribi?:
> 
> > Op 26-mei-2006, om 11:05 heeft Who het volgende geschreven:
> > 
> > > I think it is a shame (well, actually, I only really dislike the
> > > folders), but I also think that getting someone to develop an entire
> > > icon theme from scratch, with the sole intention of it being the
> > > Dapper theme and then abandoning it 4 days before release would be
> > > unproductive and harsh! The Tangerine guys have been doing a great job
> > > orangifying Tango, but it was always as an addtional theme and it is
> > > also intrinsically less original than Human...
> > >
> > > Tangerine is available, and is the default icon theme for at least one
> > > of the new metathemes :)
> > 
> > I agree. Human is a pretty good icon set. I personally prefer  
> > Tangerine, although that one's not without problems, too. It's clear  
> > that Tangerine is the only set that can go toe-to-toe with Human, so  
> > we should figure out what it is we want and what it is the community  
> > wants. Human was made for Dapper, and that's why it's in. But Edgy is  
> > different, and if we figure out that Tangerine looks better with what  
> > we make, we'll surely be able to get it to become the next default set.
> > 
> > Michiel

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Re: [ubuntu-art] // panel icon distributions //

[Julian Oliver]

..on Wed, May 24, 2006 at 12:41:57PM +0200, Michiel Sikma wrote:
> 
> Op 24-mei-2006, om 12:38 heeft Julian Oliver het volgende geschreven:
> 
> >here is a link to a screenshot with a few small criticisms that i  
> >think
> >would be great to address before Dapper goes live.
> 
> I'm afraid that's no longer possible. We'll be including these  
> criticisms in the interface discussion for Edgy, though. There's just  
> no way we can begin to make such changes, which inevitably require  
> consensus, a few days before launch. 

perfectly understandable. the '11th hour' is upon us, as we say in English ;)

> In any case, thanks for your advice.

anytime!

julian

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[ubuntu-art] // panel icon distributions //

[Julian Oliver]

hi,

here is a link to a screenshot with a few small criticisms that i think 
would be great to address before Dapper goes live. 

http://selectparks.net/~julian/share/u-a_proportions.png

i also think the new logout icon is for instance far too intense,
dominating the Ubuntu icon in colour and form. i think the prominence
of the Ubuntu icon on the panel was perfect with the power switch 
(an icon choice i thought was both innovative and fantastic 
(switch(user, off, to sleep)). 

the distrubtion of space between neighbouring icons on the panel 
is also pretty inconsistent, as shown in the screenshot. 

the progress bar in some cases is also far too huge, and looks pretty
silly i think; almost twice that of the window titlebar and fields 
(a gigantic caramel worm creeps across my desktop).

i also think the new network applet icon, while better than the last, 
looks tiny and a bit weak next to the others. this is probably because 
the borders of the computers represented are too close in colour to the 
panel itself, so they icon blends into the panel and appears smaller.

anyway that's all!

julian

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Artwork vote results

[Julian Oliver]

good results i think, though it's shame Silicon didn't make it into the
theme list - Resilience looks a bit all over the place IMO. Gray is a 
well-resolved 
theme and perfect for those inevitable minimalists out there, or even just 
those 
that want to a complete change from the Ubuntu palette.

i thought it could've been good to see UbuntuLooks Quicksilver in the list - 
it's 
surprising how many Ubuntu desktops i see with blue window decorations,
a good Win32/OSX --> Ubuntu migration theme ;)

anyway, congrats to the winners!

julian

..on Tue, May 23, 2006 at 09:24:43AM +0100, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote:
> 
> Thanks to all those who participated in the voting and helped bring this 
> to a conclusion. I asked you to vote for one usplash option and three 
> wallpapers and theme options. To rank the latter two I have used a 
> simple weighting system of 5:3:1, where the top choice gets a weight of 
> 5x, the second 3x and the third 1x. Ideally I should have defined this 
> system before the voting started. I've attached a spreadsheet with the 
> raw figures, and as I've said if someone wants to see the emails I can 
> arrange that.
> 
> Usplash -- 10 voters
> ===
> 
> 0_8_SCALED7  - WINNER
> Tangerine2
> ubuntu-logo-dark1
> 
> 
> Themes -- 10 voters
> =
> 
> Resilience - 15 points
> Gray - 13 points
> Human Legacy - 11 points
> 
> Wallpapers -- 5 voters
> ==
> 
> Simple Human - 11 points
> Dawn of Ubuntu - 8 points
> Ubuntu Chocolate - 6 points
> 
> http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/ubuntu/107
> http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/ubuntu/64
> http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/ubuntu/39
> 
> - Henrik
> 
> 
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Re: [ubuntu-art] usplash pics

[Julian Oliver]

..on Wed, May 17, 2006 at 02:47:50PM +0800, Jerome Gotangco wrote:
> A nice wiki page was created just for this and was posted earlier by a
> list member:
> 
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Usplash/DapperPropositions

thanks for doing that, great to see them all together!

what immediately strikes me is how much intelligently Viper550's splashes work 
with the limited colour palette.

the don't have gradation, but appear to as s/he uses flat colour to
mimic the effect, as screenprinters and poster artists have done for decades.

i have to say i'd also be pleased to get rid of the extraneous boot output 
except 
when serious errors are encountered. who wants to see the words "LVM Volume 
Group" at 9am? 
for most it's just senseless noise.

IMO the ubuntu logo is extremely graphically solid and doesn't even need the 
namesake
name next to it. so, (completely prematurely) my vote is for: 

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Usplash/DapperPropositions#v550tl_ubuntu

(btw wouldn't it be great if the ubuntu logo was itself a progress
bar, where a colour rotated through the form, 'filling it' as the boot
progresses)

julian

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Re: [ubuntu-art] usplash wiki update

[Julian Oliver]

..on Wed, May 17, 2006 at 12:13:30PM +0200, Frank Schoep wrote:
> On Wednesday 17 May 2006 06:56, Troy James Sobotka wrote:
> > I took some initiative and thumbnailed all of the work
> > at the usplash proposal portion of the Wiki.
> 
> That's great work, thanks a lot for doing that, it was well worth the effort.
> 
> There are a lot of nice submissions already. For the biggest part they are 
> obvious, meaning that they explore the basic logo and "Ubuntu" composition, 
> which looks very good because of the palette limitations and the black 
> background.
> 
> I wouldn't mind the best ones of those being selected as default for Dapper. 
> In the meantime I had been exploring a slightly more non-obvious idea using 
> Blender, Inkscape and The Gimp. I tried to create a backlit version of the 
> Ubuntu circle, I'll explain what I mean by that.
> 
> I took the circle logo and placed a halo'ed spotlight behind it, so that a 
> corona of light beams shines behind the logo. Instead of opting for a 
> standard white spotlight I decided to make it Human-colored.
> 
> Downside of that is that the end result is kind of darkish, but still Ubuntu 
> themed. If you think the idea is good, I'd gladly create a lighter version, 
> perhaps using colors more close to the Breezy splash or using orange.
> 
> I've attached a ready-to-use indexed PNG to this message, it can also be 
> downloaded from:
> http://www.ffnn.nl/media/external/ubuntu/usplash/backlit.png
> 
> I've created a usplash shared library which you can try in real life (no .deb 
> yet, sorry):
> http://www.ffnn.nl/media/external/ubuntu/usplash/backlit.so
> 
> I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

personally i think gradations should be avoided altogether with the usplash 
palette
being so narrow (16 colours). while the idea is nice, booting up as a kind of 
'dawn' etc, i'd rather see
clean flat colour as it doesn't exemplify the fact we are working with so few 
colours (8 years after Windows98).

my loose change,

julian

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Re: [ubuntu-art] tangerine

[Julian Oliver]

..on Thu, Apr 20, 2006 at 08:07:05AM +0200, Petr Tome? wrote:
> >
> > The tangerine icons are SPECTACULAR: brilliant work. Please get them
> > into human as default They do a great job on toning down the bright
> > orange, and are very pretty and intuitive too.
> 
> Hi all!
> I fully agree with this and I fully support the effort to get
> tangerine icons into Human as default. Many our users on
> forum.ubuntu.cz have very positive response to them because the are
> reasonable toned down and they better fit overall colour scheme and
> style.

i agree. they simply work better, especially on small scale. 
they are easier on the eye, cleaner/polished.

shame there's not more of them though! a few holes..

julian

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Gaim Logo

[Julian Oliver]

..on Mon, Apr 17, 2006 at 12:40:16PM +0200, Daniel Holbach wrote:
> Hi everybody,
> 
> could somebody of you have a look at
> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gaim/+bug/10303 and make
> suggestions on the bug report?

the colours in the first example are complimentary with those of the current 
Ubuntu theme (blue<->orange) and so could look great on the desktop.. 

the second option looks great and fits in a very literal sense of course. 
perhaps not as exciting as a result.

these are splashes?

julian

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Re: [ubuntu-art] distributor-logo

[Julian Oliver]

..on Sun, Apr 16, 2006 at 11:12:08AM -0300, Evandro Fernandes Giovanini wrote:
> Em S??b, 2006-04-15 ??s 23:38 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth escreveu:
> > bvc wrote: 
> > > For consistency, the distributor-logo.png needs shadow.
> > > http://kwh.kernow-gb.com/~bvc/dapper-xubu/distributor-logo.png
> > Good point. But I wonder if the Ubuntu logo will ever look great that
> > small? Maybe we should revert to the Gnome foot there? Thoughts?
> > 
> > Mark
> > 
> 
> Another idea is to not have an icon at all, like a normal menubar.

when the default background image is covered by windows, what other indication 
is there then that the computer is running Ubuntu at all? 

the Ubuntu logo should be present on the desktop screen at all times - the theme
is not enough.

Ubuntu already has strong 'brand loyalty', a loyalty people are happy to
convey with the presence of the logo.

i would say that it should remain there by default, but those few that
take offence should have option to replace/remove it. 

julian

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Changing GIMP splash for Dapper

[Julian Oliver]

..on Sun, Apr 16, 2006 at 10:29:44AM +0100, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote:
> Petr Tome? wrote:
> >Hello,
> >I think this is absolutely great:
> >http://klepas.org/wp-content/uploads/2006/03/gimp-ubuntu-splash.png
> 
> I agree. I think we should use that one.

me 2,

julian

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Re: [ubuntu-art] distributor-logo

[Julian Oliver]

..on Sat, Apr 15, 2006 at 11:38:13PM +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote:
> bvc wrote:
> > For consistency, the distributor-logo.png needs shadow.
> > http://kwh.kernow-gb.com/~bvc/dapper-xubu/distributor-logo.png
> > 
> Good point. But I wonder if the Ubuntu logo will ever look great that
> small? Maybe we should revert to the Gnome foot there? Thoughts?

i think it would be a bad idea to see the Ubuntu logo replaced by
the stock gnome foot in this location; a regression where branding is concerned.
this is a widely anticipated release of Ubuntu and so the logo should be
resolute and it's graphical presence strong.

IMO i think it still looks good with the shadowing - though is definitely 
softened
by it. regardless the Ubuntu logo is well designed and so it robust enough to 
take 
this sort of treatment. blocks of strong colours will mean it survives small
sizes and shadowing well. 

if push came to shove i'd rather roll back to the unshaded version than see a 
gnome's foot there.

my EUR00.03

julian. 

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Re: [ubuntu-art] orange

[Julian Oliver]

..on Fri, Apr 14, 2006 at 07:42:12PM +0200, Suzan wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> a different opinion about the "orange" thing from myself:
> 
> i love it. Orange is fresh an light and fits perfectly with brown and
> dark-red colours.
> 
> I love the orange tangerine and the orange human icons. They are so
> pretty different from other linux iconsets. 
> 
> Just my 2 cents...

and it's not the first time we've seen orange on the gnome desktop at
all.

out of interest the old 'Gorilla' SVG theme was pretty popular and used
orange heavily for file and folder properties on icons:

http://librsvg.sourceforge.net/screenshots/gorilla.jpg

that said, at the end of the day the goal shouldn't be to make a 'striking' 
desktop so much as one that is simultaneously easy to look at for long hours, 
has attention to detail when studied and is graphically logical the rest of the 
time.

IMHO the atomic parts of the desktop as a graphical environment should
be translucid, yet a pleasure to look at when so desired. confidence in
a desktop environment is not pervaded with stylistic virtuosity so much
as in it's reliable behavioural and graphical logic.

as much as i find OSX tedious and frustrating from a useability perspective, 
it is graphically successful to these ends, in that it one is barely aware of 
the 
graphical particulars or stylistic disposition of the desktop in the course of 
using it.

that said, i really don't think the world needs another blue desktop.

my EUR00.02

julian


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Re: [ubuntu-art] tango icons request

[Julian Oliver]

..on Fri, Apr 14, 2006 at 07:36:59AM +0200, Sebastian Heinlein wrote:
> Am Donnerstag, den 13.04.2006, 21:18 +0200 schrieb Manu Cornet:
> > Hi !
> > 
> > > it would be nice to have a tangerine icon for the update-manager
> > 
> > FYI, I made a try at this a few weeks ago :
> > 
> > http://www.manucornet.net/ubuntu/dev/update_big.png
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Manu
> 
> 
> Hi Manu,
> 
> the red is very attracting. So I would suggest that this icon could be a
> replacement for the update-notifier notification icon rather than the
> update-manager menu icon.

agreed. in most user interfaces, whether physical or digital, the colour red 
is used to signify stop, warning, cancel, close or alert. 

using this icon for the update-manager would suggest that updating is somehow 
dangerous.

julian

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Changing GIMP splash for Dapper

[Julian Oliver]

..on Thu, Apr 13, 2006 at 02:32:52PM +0200, Frank Schoep wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> On Wednesday 12 April 2006 21:56, Viper550 wrote:
> > [... snip ...]
> > Wait a second, the splash screen actually looks better with the
> > weird filter...but it would have gone better with the older theme...
> > If that splash screen was a result of a contest, maybe we could
> > have a public contest for the Gimp splash screen for GIMP 2.2.10
> > Dapper Drake Edition, or I could easily design one myself that
> > would go good! 
> 
> My sarcasm detector is slightly malfunctioning right now, so am I right when 
> I 
> say you support my suggestion? I'm relatively new to the Ubuntu Art list so I 
> don't know yet who the big decision makers are here. I distilled from 
> Julian's reply that he also thinks we could make a better splash for Dapper.
> 
> What did you think about my proposal on reusing the current splash screen in 
> Breezy? I summed up some pros and cons in my previous mail, do they make 
> sense?
> 
> I hope there's more people on this list who want to share their opinion on my 
> proposal, don't hesitate to jump in!

as i said, i like the proposal.

i should also say i'm not actively involved in ubuntu-art and so am not in 
contact 
with it's broader objectives, nor it's (tight) roadmap. i dropped into this 
list because 
i push Ubuntu in education, and teach FOSS digital-arts/game-development on the 
platform.
for this reason my opinions should be kept in context

i see what happens to students faces when the Gimp starts up. if kids say the 
Gimp looks 
crap and uninspiring then that's one less reason to have Ubuntu (or any free 
desktop) on 
class computers.

julian

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Changing GIMP splash for Dapper

[Julian Oliver]

i absolutely agree. i wrote to the Gimp-user mailing list about this
splash in general here:

http://www.mail-archive.com/gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/msg09534.html

it'd be great to 'Ubuntufy' it for Dapper.

julian

..on Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 06:58:26PM +0200, Frank Schoep wrote:
> Hello Ubuntu Art Team,
> 
> I wanted to discuss the posibilities of changing the current GIMP splash 
> screen. I documented my thoughts and reasoning behind this proposal in the 
> following bug report on Launchpad:
> https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/38968
> 
> As you can see, the package maintainers pointed me towards the Art mailing 
> list and it seemed like a very good proposition. I searched the archives of 
> March and April 2006, but only found the following thread related to The 
> GIMP:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2006-March/000740.html
> 
> In the bugreport, I wrote the following:
> 
> "
> GIMP's splash screen in Dapper feels rather unpolished compared to the one 
> found in Breezy (will attach a comparison shortly). This is not strictly a 
> bug in Dapper, but in my opinion a rather poor choice upstream. My suggestion 
> would be to reuse the Breezy splash screen in Dapper, I'll elaborate a bit 
> more on why I'm proposing this change.
> 
> The current Dapper splash screen is the result of a competition set up by the 
> GIMP Team celebrating the tenth anniversary of the program. I followed this 
> contest from the start and I feel that none of the entries matches the 
> elegance and polish displayed by the current splash screen in Breezy.
> 
> Especially the winner, and thus the current splash, lacks in a few 
> departments:
>  - The GIMP title text is barely legible due to the font, shadow and bordering
>  - Legibility gets worse for the color blind, try using the "Deuteranopia" 
> display filter on the new splash, it becomes one big washed out gray area
>  - A rusty dial doesn't instill confidence or inspire creativity
>  - The green color doesn't match any element in the Dapper theme and feels 
> out 
> of place
> 
> The current Breezy splash offers the following advantages:
>  - The orange base color blends in perfectly in the new Ubuntulooks theme and 
> the overall appearance of the desktop environment
>  - The GIMP name is sharp and has a good contrast compared to the white 
> background
>  - The pencils are appropriately themed and (for me) do inspire creativity
>  - The white background makes the splash screen uplifting and clean instead 
> of 
> depressing (the green in the new one is kind of dark)
>  - The version number doesn't list the minor release so it could be reused 
> without any further changes
> 
> To rehash: I would feel that the Ubuntu Dapper release would benefit greatly 
> by reverting a bad aesthetical choice upstream. I haven't held a popularity 
> contest or something, but I hope I've been able to convey my thoughts and 
> feelings on this subject with a solid list of arguments.
> 
> If the Breezy splash is not an option, the Dapper example content also 
> provides a GIMP splash screen which looks better than the current Dapper one. 
> Look for this one in the Examples folder in your home directory on Dapper.
> 
> All of the above is purely subjective and represents my view on the subject, 
> please take this in consideration.
> "
> 
> I attached a comparison image to the bugreport, which can be found online 
> here:
> http://www.ffnn.nl/media/external/ubuntu/gimp-splash-compare.jpg
> 
> I hope I can set off a spark to make Dapper better and feel more integrated 
> and polished. Thanks for reading this far and I'd be glad to receive your 
> thoughts on this matter.
> 
> With kind regards,
> 
> Frank Schoep
> 
> 
> 
> (Sorry if this one's a dupe, I previously sent this message from a different 
> account)
> 
> -- 
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

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[ubuntu-art] // Logout dialog icon comments //

[Julian Oliver]

Looking at Daniel's icon page, and seeing icons in the context of each
other, I have a couple of comments on the logout icons. 
Notice how the 'gnome-session-halt' looks very 'interlaced' in comparison to
the other tangerine icons - as though we're looking at them on a poor
quality TFT.. It's friends gnome-session-hibernate, gnome-session-reboot and
gnome-session-suspend also suffer from this but not quite so badly (perhaps due 
to the high
contrast of the red against white). 

gnome-session-logout and gnome-session-switch however look great, really clean, 
antialiased - polished.

i also wonder if they aren't too large? They are at least twice the size
of other icons in the tangerine set, an inconsistency quite jarring at
first when you actually logout in Flight6. They are already twice as
colourful as most other icons in the desktop, but do they need to be so 
gigantic?

Perhaps making the halt, reboot, hibernate and reboot icons as wide as the 
'door' in
gnome-session-logout would bring the overall sense of scale more in line with 
other icons in Human.

Cheers!

Julian

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Inconsistence of gradients and artwork colors

[Julian Oliver]

..on Fri, Apr 07, 2006 at 09:20:16AM +0200, Richard Stellingwerff wrote:
> On 4/7/06, bvc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > http://kwh.kernow-gb.com/~bvc/dapper-xubu/progress-scroll-trough-frame.png
> > I've touched it up some more using elements from ubuntulooks to replace the
> > svg mockup elements. Looks much better, I think.
> 
> Did you think about the issue where notebook tabs spread accross the
> entire width (when there are MANY tabs)? That will odd when the
> topright corner is round.
> 
> The mockup does look good though. I think I'll actually give it a try.

The tight curves on those scroll-bars do look very slick IMHO.
A good compromise between straight-edge and round tips. Be good to see them in 
action. 

my EUR00.02

Julian

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Tangerine in universe

[Julian Oliver]

..on Thu, Apr 06, 2006 at 04:37:58PM +0200, Eric Feliksik wrote:
> It's a *GREAT* proposal, this iconset! Orange for the ones who love 
> orange, but not as agressive as in the current theme. Nice, Étienne.
> 
> Julian Oliver wrote:
> >I'd miss those little orange folder property indicators however - eg for 
> >home,
> >ssh, ftp etc - as the orange chosen ties in well with the Ubuntu logo 
> >itself and
> >sit's above the folder icon itself enough to be immediately noticed.
> >
> 
> The point is, those labels don't have to go. I would just propose to 
> make them grey or another non-orange color. This way it's both more 
> relaxed for the eye, *AND* it's more noticable because it contrasts with 
> the icon itself.

This is true, as a colleague of mine noted, Flight6 w/Human is "alot more work
to look at" compared to Breezy - something to consider. The interface
should be translucid to the user, going most of the time completely
'unnoticed' except when needed. When colours are too strong, attention is 
demanded 
even when attention is no longer unneccessary in that given area. 

> 
> (This also applies to the orange home-icon, I personally find it very 
> unpleasant to see. Just make the home-circle a nicer, non-orange color).
> 

You're right, while not as 'striking' it would make Ubuntu more 
liveable/productive 
to work with. People care less about what their desktop looks like,
explicitly speaking, than how it feels to use it.

Julian

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Tangerine in universe

[Julian Oliver]

..on Wed, Apr 05, 2006 at 11:04:24PM +0200, Étienne Bersac wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I'm very please to see the incoming Tangerine icon set in dapper repo.
> 
> I made a screenshot of both theme face to face at 
> http://bersace03.free.fr/pub/captures/dapper-artwork/compare-human-tangerine.png

I far prefer it - the folders look more like folders, and lack the 'bulbous' 
quality 
that perhaps doesn't scale so well in the set to the left.
The squarer corners also tie it in with the window decoration somehow.

I'd miss those little orange folder property indicators however - eg for home,
ssh, ftp etc - as the orange chosen ties in well with the Ubuntu logo itself and
sit's above the folder icon itself enough to be immediately noticed.

This stuff could perhaps be done on a mouse-over event however.

Nice work..

Julian

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Inconsistence of gradients and artwork colors

[Julian Oliver]

..on Wed, Apr 05, 2006 at 02:06:26PM +0100, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote:
> Richard Stellingwerff wrote:
> >I've made a few new mockups:
> >http://stellingwerff.com/ubuntu-art/sb.png (svg:
> 
> I like the last ones, though I can see that even rounded scroll bar tips 
> against a rounded edge can look odd.
> 
> Here is a version with square stepper edges and rounded scroll bar tips: 
> http://people.ubuntu.com/~henrik/images/slider-01.png
> http://people.ubuntu.com/~henrik/images/slider-in-action.png
> 
> The trick is that the tips slightly overshoot the edge of the slider 
> groove so you don't get a round edge meeting a square one. Imagine that 
> the tips are not sitting in the groove with the rest of the slider, but 
> are less deep so they can pass over the edge of the stepper slightly 
> when they reach the edge.

On first appearance this is pretty disonant. When a design needs
explanation such as this does, something's awry. I like your curved sliders
alot, as the tips interlock with the ends. There is something innately
satisfying about this.

Why not strike a good compromise, one that perhaps Cairo can offer.
Instead of complete right-angles, go for a much tighter curve on the
corners. Show off the antialising with tight and clean curves.

Julian

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Expanding logout dialogue

[Julian Oliver]

..on Wed, Apr 05, 2006 at 11:24:48AM +0100, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote:
> I'm with Matt and Vincent who think that there are simply too many 
> options on the logout dialogue, so I though I would try making an 
> expanding one where you hide some of the less common options.
> 
> Mock-up: http://people.ubuntu.com/~henrik/images/collapsing-logout.png
> 
> We are now down to 3+3 options (I removed Lock screen as it appears in 
> the System menu directly)
> 
> There is also some logic to the placement of the buttons in that the 
> icons that appear in the same column are somewhat related in function or 
> severity.

yes i prefer this. when people are logging out they aren't sitting down,
their getting up to leave. the last thing you want is to be presented
with a wide array of choices. 

that said the icons in your mockup themselves still look terrible
together.

julian

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