subject:"\[ubuntu\-uk\] Leaflets"

Please do not send I am UNSCUBSCRIBED
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message - 
From: Matthew Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: British Ubuntu Talk ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

 :) Thanks for the welcomes.

 I have had feedback (on a leaflet of mine) suggesting that for real
 windows-only users, a FOSS leaflet by itself would be useful. The
 first stage concept for them is -
 Open Source software - is free and can be good quality - and there is
 a community. All with Windows.
 It is a short step then, for them to consider Linux as a possibility.

 can you upload the leaflet to the wiki so I can have a peek?

 -- 
 Matthew G Larsen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message - 
From: alan c [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: British Ubuntu Talk ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 10:44 PM
Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

 Ian Pascoe wrote:
 Hi Matt

 Welcome back to the soft and squishy embrace of the United Kingdons of
 England and it's principalities!

 Well I hope you're feeling well rested and rareing to go  the style 
 of
 leaflets that you and Chris have done seem fine so far.  I do think that 
 we
 need a few more though and we need to get ourselves a style.  My
 additional leaflets would be, and in no particular order:

 * equivalent Ubuntu alternatives to Windows (maybe further split into 
 those
 that are available on both OS's and those that aren't)

 * A simple guide to Linux, FOS and The Community

 * Possible ways to migrate from Windows to Linux and Ubuntu.

 There's been quite a lot of discussion and some really good ideas on the
 postings on this topic in the past.

 E

 I have had feedback (on a leaflet of mine) suggesting that for real
 windows-only users, a FOSS leaflet by itself would be useful. The
 first stage concept for them is -
 Open Source software - is free and can be good quality - and there is
 a community. All with Windows.
 It is a short step then, for them to consider Linux as a possibility.

 -- 
 alan cocks
 Kubuntu user#10391

 -- 
 ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
 https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
 https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/

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 No virus found in this incoming message.
 Checked by AVG Free Edition.
 Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.10/875 - Release Date: 27/06/2007 
 21:08

 This message has been processed by Firetrust Benign.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

Please do not send I am UNSCUBSCRIBED
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message - 
From: Chris Rowson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: British Ubuntu Talk ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 9:46 PM
Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets


 Hey all

 Back in the most merry of kingdoms, ready to progress on the leaflet


 Hi Matt,

 I am too still interested in pressing forward with the leaflet/s. I'm
 a bit pressed at the moment as I'm still sorting the house out after
 moving in.

 Even if I'm a bit quiet though, I'm still about ;-)

 Chris

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

Please do not send I am UNSCUBSCRIBED
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message - 
From: Ian Pascoe [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: British Ubuntu Talk ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 8:52 PM
Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

 Hi Matt

 Welcome back to the soft and squishy embrace of the United Kingdons of
 England and it's principalities!

 Well I hope you're feeling well rested and rareing to go  the style of
 leaflets that you and Chris have done seem fine so far.  I do think that 
 we
 need a few more though and we need to get ourselves a style.  My
 additional leaflets would be, and in no particular order:

 * equivalent Ubuntu alternatives to Windows (maybe further split into 
 those
 that are available on both OS's and those that aren't)

 * A simple guide to Linux, FOS and The Community

 * Possible ways to migrate from Windows to Linux and Ubuntu.

 There's been quite a lot of discussion and some really good ideas on the
 postings on this topic in the past.

 E

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Matthew Larsen
 Sent: 28 June 2007 13:04
 To: British Ubuntu Talk
 Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

 Hey all

 Back in the most merry of kingdoms, ready to progress on the leaflet

 As far as I can see there are 3 things to sort out:

 1) The content of the leaflet
 2) Layout of the leaflet
 3) Do we need more leaflets

 Regards,

 On 21/06/07, Matthew Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi all

 I am currently out of the country until next week so I wont be able to
 contribute a lot during this period

 regards

 On 19/06/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  OK, I'll byte... :oP

  On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 09:57:02 +0100, norman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
big snip 

   As no one seems inclined to react to my comments I will respond to
   myself. As one of the longest users of Ubuntu in this group I am
 curious
   to know why there is all this activity in wanting to produce a
 leaflet.
   Is there anyone prepared to answer a few questions? If so, now is 
   your
   chance.

   Is there a real desire to promote the use of Ubuntu and, if so, why?

  Because it just works.  I have witnessed people with absolutely no
 idea about computers (including one user who tidied up her hard disk 
 only
 to find that half her programs didn't work because she'd moved stuff in
 Program Files) install Ubuntu without any issues, configure a Sagem
 Speed-Touch 800 USB ADSL Modem and get connected to the internet without
 even blinking.  I am not aware of any other distros that do this.

   Who do you expect to be interested enough to even give Ubuntu a try?

  Well, people who have seen Vista and Office 2007 are asking me about
 alternatives, people who want continued support for their OS but don't 
 want
 to upgrade to Vista, people who are fed up with viruses and spam that have
 approached me about switching, the list goes on and on ad. nauseum.

   What is your personal motive in all this activity to produce a
 leaflet?

  To produce publicity for a product that I have faith in and that will
 continue even if Canonical collapses (which I don't think will ahppen any
 time soon) - Ubuntu works as a product and it has been instrumental in
 helping others to save money by switching to Ubuntu from windows.

   How, why and when did you start using Ubuntu and which operating
 system
   were you using before conversion?

  Immediately before Ubuntu, I was using Gentoo.  I've also used Suse,
 Redhat, Fedora, Slackware and Debian.  I still run Gentoo on my servers
 because I can customise the compilation right down to the flags for the 
 GCC
 compiler and it runs incredibly fast!  At work (up until the end of this
 week) I have used exclusively windows on my desktop since I started (I've
 got a new job with a company selling F/OSS solutions that starts next
 month!!!)

   What makes you believe that your knowledge and experience qualifies
 you
   to produce a leaflet?

  What makes you think that I lack these skills? ;o)

   There is no compulsion, of course, for you to respond to the above 
   and
 I
   shall not feel hurt if you don't. Unless there is a good reason for 
   me
   to say more I am now finished with the subject. The best of luck and
   stick with it if it makes you feel good.

  And here where I try to remain professional and fail miserably.

  I have only seen a few posts from you on this list over the last few
 months, admittedly I haven't searched the archives, however I would be
 inclined to count you as a less than active member of this list.  The few
 posts that you have made have not been the most positive and I truly 
 believe
 that this is more to do with you trying to be a realist than trying to 
 apply
 a negative slant to this project. I hope that I am correct on my
 assumptions.

  This leaflet is a chance for the entire community to pull together and
 say Linux is ready for the desktop

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

2007-06-20 Thread matthew


OK, I'll byte... :oP

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 09:57:02 +0100, norman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  big snip 
 
 As no one seems inclined to react to my comments I will respond to
 myself. As one of the longest users of Ubuntu in this group I am curious
 to know why there is all this activity in wanting to produce a leaflet.
 Is there anyone prepared to answer a few questions? If so, now is your
 chance.
 
 Is there a real desire to promote the use of Ubuntu and, if so, why?

Because it just works.  I have witnessed people with absolutely no idea about 
computers (including one user who tidied up her hard disk only to find that 
half her programs didn't work because she'd moved stuff in Program Files) 
install Ubuntu without any issues, configure a Sagem Speed-Touch 800 USB ADSL 
Modem and get connected to the internet without even blinking.  I am not aware 
of any other distros that do this.

 Who do you expect to be interested enough to even give Ubuntu a try?

Well, people who have seen Vista and Office 2007 are asking me about 
alternatives, people who want continued support for their OS but don't want to 
upgrade to Vista, people who are fed up with viruses and spam that have 
approached me about switching, the list goes on and on ad. nauseum.

 What is your personal motive in all this activity to produce a leaflet?

To produce publicity for a product that I have faith in and that will continue 
even if Canonical collapses (which I don't think will ahppen any time soon) - 
Ubuntu works as a product and it has been instrumental in helping others to 
save money by switching to Ubuntu from windows.

 How, why and when did you start using Ubuntu and which operating system
 were you using before conversion?

Immediately before Ubuntu, I was using Gentoo.  I've also used Suse, Redhat, 
Fedora, Slackware and Debian.  I still run Gentoo on my servers because I can 
customise the compilation right down to the flags for the GCC compiler and it 
runs incredibly fast!  At work (up until the end of this week) I have used 
exclusively windows on my desktop since I started (I've got a new job with a 
company selling F/OSS solutions that starts next month!!!)
 
 What makes you believe that your knowledge and experience qualifies you
 to produce a leaflet?

What makes you think that I lack these skills? ;o)

 There is no compulsion, of course, for you to respond to the above and I
 shall not feel hurt if you don't. Unless there is a good reason for me
 to say more I am now finished with the subject. The best of luck and
 stick with it if it makes you feel good.

And here where I try to remain professional and fail miserably.

I have only seen a few posts from you on this list over the last few months, 
admittedly I haven't searched the archives, however I would be inclined to 
count you as a less than active member of this list.  The few posts that you 
have made have not been the most positive and I truly believe that this is more 
to do with you trying to be a realist than trying to apply a negative slant to 
this project. I hope that I am correct on my assumptions.

This leaflet is a chance for the entire community to pull together and say 
Linux is ready for the desktop and for the home - it now works, it will 
connect to your active directories and your windows shares, it will talk to 
your Macs and your TiVO, it is free and it is good, there now really is such a 
thing as a free lunch.

Personally, I will be using this leaflet for SFD 2007 in Thanet, I don't have 
the skills to produce the artwork or anything else, however I do have the 
skills to sell ubuntu using the community generated resources that are 
available to me and I will continue to do so.

Kind regards,

Matt.


-- 
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https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

2007-06-20 Thread Matthew Larsen

Hi all

I am currently out of the country until next week so I wont be able to
contribute a lot during this period

regards

On 19/06/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 OK, I'll byte... :oP

 On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 09:57:02 +0100, norman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   big snip 
 
  As no one seems inclined to react to my comments I will respond to
  myself. As one of the longest users of Ubuntu in this group I am curious
  to know why there is all this activity in wanting to produce a leaflet.
  Is there anyone prepared to answer a few questions? If so, now is your
  chance.
 
  Is there a real desire to promote the use of Ubuntu and, if so, why?

 Because it just works.  I have witnessed people with absolutely no idea 
 about computers (including one user who tidied up her hard disk only to 
 find that half her programs didn't work because she'd moved stuff in Program 
 Files) install Ubuntu without any issues, configure a Sagem Speed-Touch 800 
 USB ADSL Modem and get connected to the internet without even blinking.  I am 
 not aware of any other distros that do this.

  Who do you expect to be interested enough to even give Ubuntu a try?

 Well, people who have seen Vista and Office 2007 are asking me about 
 alternatives, people who want continued support for their OS but don't want 
 to upgrade to Vista, people who are fed up with viruses and spam that have 
 approached me about switching, the list goes on and on ad. nauseum.

  What is your personal motive in all this activity to produce a leaflet?

 To produce publicity for a product that I have faith in and that will 
 continue even if Canonical collapses (which I don't think will ahppen any 
 time soon) - Ubuntu works as a product and it has been instrumental in 
 helping others to save money by switching to Ubuntu from windows.

  How, why and when did you start using Ubuntu and which operating system
  were you using before conversion?

 Immediately before Ubuntu, I was using Gentoo.  I've also used Suse, Redhat, 
 Fedora, Slackware and Debian.  I still run Gentoo on my servers because I can 
 customise the compilation right down to the flags for the GCC compiler and it 
 runs incredibly fast!  At work (up until the end of this week) I have used 
 exclusively windows on my desktop since I started (I've got a new job with a 
 company selling F/OSS solutions that starts next month!!!)
 
  What makes you believe that your knowledge and experience qualifies you
  to produce a leaflet?

 What makes you think that I lack these skills? ;o)

  There is no compulsion, of course, for you to respond to the above and I
  shall not feel hurt if you don't. Unless there is a good reason for me
  to say more I am now finished with the subject. The best of luck and
  stick with it if it makes you feel good.

 And here where I try to remain professional and fail miserably.

 I have only seen a few posts from you on this list over the last few months, 
 admittedly I haven't searched the archives, however I would be inclined to 
 count you as a less than active member of this list.  The few posts that you 
 have made have not been the most positive and I truly believe that this is 
 more to do with you trying to be a realist than trying to apply a negative 
 slant to this project. I hope that I am correct on my assumptions.

 This leaflet is a chance for the entire community to pull together and say 
 Linux is ready for the desktop and for the home - it now works, it will 
 connect to your active directories and your windows shares, it will talk to 
 your Macs and your TiVO, it is free and it is good, there now really is such 
 a thing as a free lunch.

 Personally, I will be using this leaflet for SFD 2007 in Thanet, I don't have 
 the skills to produce the artwork or anything else, however I do have the 
 skills to sell ubuntu using the community generated resources that are 
 available to me and I will continue to do so.

 Kind regards,

 Matt.


 --
 ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
 https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
 https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/



-- 
Matthew G Larsen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
+44(0)7739 785 249

-- 
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https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

2007-06-19 Thread Kirrus


- Ian Pascoe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip
 E
 
 PS  Sorry to read about your septic words Louisa grins, dives behind
 sofa
 

Errr... what do you mean by this? 
(Me don't geddit :S)



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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

2007-06-19 Thread norman

 big snip 

As no one seems inclined to react to my comments I will respond to
myself. As one of the longest users of Ubuntu in this group I am curious
to know why there is all this activity in wanting to produce a leaflet.
Is there anyone prepared to answer a few questions? If so, now is your
chance.

Is there a real desire to promote the use of Ubuntu and, if so, why?

Who do you expect to be interested enough to even give Ubuntu a try?

What is your personal motive in all this activity to produce a leaflet?

How, why and when did you start using Ubuntu and which operating system
were you using before conversion?

What makes you believe that your knowledge and experience qualifies you
to produce a leaflet?

There is no compulsion, of course, for you to respond to the above and I
shall not feel hurt if you don't. Unless there is a good reason for me
to say more I am now finished with the subject. The best of luck and
stick with it if it makes you feel good.

Norman


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

2007-06-19 Thread Alan Pope

Hi Norman,

On Tue, Jun 19, 2007 at 09:57:02AM +0100, norman wrote:
  big snip 
 
 As no one seems inclined to react to my comments I will respond to
 myself.

Probably because it contained no questions and it was only sent at 5pm last 
night. 

 As one of the longest users of Ubuntu in this group I am curious
 to know why there is all this activity in wanting to produce a leaflet.

Why not?

 Is there a real desire to promote the use of Ubuntu and, if so, why?
 

Yes. From my point of view I would like to see more people use Ubuntu. The 
more users there are of Ubuntu the more that hardware and software vendors 
will take notice. The result of that is that devices will be more likely to 
be delivered with Linux support out of the box. In addition software vendors 
will look at the market share Ubuntu (Linux) has and decide that it's worth 
porting applications to Linux, or open sourcing them, or writing them from 
scratch or using tools like WINE to bring their apps to the users.

 Who do you expect to be interested enough to even give Ubuntu a try?
 

Anyone who either has yet to use a computer, or someone who already has some 
computer experience. i.e. pretty much anyone.

 What is your personal motive in all this activity to produce a leaflet?
 

See answer to first question.

 How, why and when did you start using Ubuntu and which operating system
 were you using before conversion?
 

I moved to Ubuntu when the first release came out. Previously I had used 
Windows, DOS, OS/2 and various other non-PC systems.

 What makes you believe that your knowledge and experience qualifies you
 to produce a leaflet?
 

I have created and helped to create leaflets before. I have lectured in IT, 
have given talks at my local LUG, answered support questions on the answer 
tracker, helped via IRC, assisted in real life. I guess that all helps.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

2007-06-19 Thread Chris Rowson

 Is there a real desire to promote the use of Ubuntu and, if so, why?

If there was no desire to use Ubuntu it would be pretty pointless
being subscribed to an Ubuntu mailing list wouldn't it?

 Who do you expect to be interested enough to even give Ubuntu a try?

What made you interested enough to give Ubuntu a try?

 What is your personal motive in all this activity to produce a leaflet?

I'm not self-obsessed enough to consider that everything is about me.
Sometimes people just do things to be helpful you know!

 How, why and when did you start using Ubuntu and which operating system
 were you using before conversion?

I work in IT using Windows, Linux and Solaris. I'm still using all three.

 What makes you believe that your knowledge and experience qualifies you
 to produce a leaflet?

I'm a little confused at this one. What disqualifies someone from
being able to do so?

Chris

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

2007-06-19 Thread Matthew Larsen

hi norman,

Sorry to hear you feel we are ignoring you and your loss of interest
in the project. I did read your original post and would have responded
to any questions raised. I would imagine there were not many responses
because most of the points in your comment had already been addressed
earlier in the discussion (such as not mentioning linux, it being
similar to windows, lots of free software etc).

Josh,

Thanks for feedback, the versions I have made are a prototype for the
graphics on it, anything is subject to change :) (feel free to
download the source file and fiddle with it) The idea of bundling the
install instructions is to dispell a lot of myths and FUD put out
about wrecking your computer. I'm not so sure about splitting up the
install into another leaflet, I would imagine people in general would
prefer one leaflet as opposed to 2 (you might lose it, bin it by
accident, not be bothered to read it etc). I agree more information
needs to go on about FOSS and free software

I will be working on another version of the leaflet later today

Regards,



On 19/06/07, norman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  big snip 

 As no one seems inclined to react to my comments I will respond to
 myself. As one of the longest users of Ubuntu in this group I am curious
 to know why there is all this activity in wanting to produce a leaflet.
 Is there anyone prepared to answer a few questions? If so, now is your
 chance.

 Is there a real desire to promote the use of Ubuntu and, if so, why?

 Who do you expect to be interested enough to even give Ubuntu a try?

 What is your personal motive in all this activity to produce a leaflet?

 How, why and when did you start using Ubuntu and which operating system
 were you using before conversion?

 What makes you believe that your knowledge and experience qualifies you
 to produce a leaflet?

 There is no compulsion, of course, for you to respond to the above and I
 shall not feel hurt if you don't. Unless there is a good reason for me
 to say more I am now finished with the subject. The best of luck and
 stick with it if it makes you feel good.

 Norman


 --
 ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
 https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
 https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/



-- 
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
+44(0)7739 785 249

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https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

2007-06-19 Thread Nik Butler

Hello Norman,

I have been lurking and watching the creation of the leaflet I lack the 
Creative and Artistic design to produce something of quality such as 
this but since theyve not created  or said anything wildly irritating or 
abusive or just outright rude I stayed queit, sometimes in open source 
this is also the best thing you can do. However since you ask



 Is there a real desire to promote the use of Ubuntu and, if so, why?
   
Because we need to ensure that the society of today and the computer 
users of the future have access to free and OPEN tools and utilities and 
operating systems that enable people to use the technology they 
purchased to achieve the goals they set for themselves. We need to have 
a computer system which frees potential in its audience to learn from 
each other and developers and community members about what it means to 
contribute in a positive and informative way within society, it is 
Ubuntu for a reason.

 Who do you expect to be interested enough to even give Ubuntu a try?
   
Anyone who has ever had a itch to experience a differnce in their own 
expectations and experience of computing, information technology and 
networking. Since Ubuntu like many OSS products provide the freedom for 
people to go as far as they wish with their experiences in IT.
 What is your personal motive in all this activity to produce a leaflet?
   
Because I am 37, I remember a time when the UK was a power house of 
cottage industries leading the way in programming and development in the 
computer industry. its been handed over now to a elite and discreet few 
who are determined to levy a tax on all who want to join. OSS has 
enabled many many people to grow and produce ideas for themselves , for 
example lets see Google, Ebay, and our own Mr Shuttleworth.

 How, why and when did you start using Ubuntu and which operating system
 were you using before conversion?
   
Since the first time it appeared as a ISO to download and no I cannot 
remember when that was but then again I discover that i was installing 
slackware on my pc back in 97 and 96 I have used to date, slackware, 
redhat, mandrake,debian and now Ubuntu. There have been more impressive 
developments and creations across those platforms than I have ever seen 
from Windows 3.1 to Vista.

 What makes you believe that your knowledge and experience qualifies you
 to produce a leaflet?
   
Well first, all my clients of the last 8 years tell me that my 
experience and knowledge in the IT industry is invaluable to them. They 
find having access to my opinions and thoughts to be a financial benefit 
to their own business descisions, but for more see my linkedIn profile 
http://www.linkedin.com/in/nicholasbutler. I went Self Employed near on 
8 years ago with the view to promote and encourage the use of OSS within 
a SME to date I have 3 clients ( out of my 25 core clients and 40 in my 
client network ) who are using Ubuntu on the desktop which has proven a 
terrible thing for me ? Do you know why ? Theyve stopped calling for 
support , things are just working. If I carry on like this I am going to 
have to move to being a software developer, maybe in something like 
Ubuntu ( and there in I am recursive in my answer ) .





Ive contributed nothing to the leaflet project , why ? well because 
sometimes a project can be killed for to much discussion and Chris 
Rowson and others have been moving it along so well that it doesnt need 
a blessing or a comment from me to promote it further but its a great 
example of what OSS can enable people to achieve within the community.



Thanks for reading


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

2007-06-19 Thread James Tait

LONG POST ALERT

norman wrote:
 As no one seems inclined to react to my comments I will respond to
 myself.

I didn't notice them.  This is a lively discussion and it probably
slipped by as comments contributing to the discussion rather than an
invitation to respond.

 As one of the longest users of Ubuntu in this group I am curious
 to know why there is all this activity in wanting to produce a leaflet.

I think it's the best, most reliable way to get information and
awareness out there among people who either don't use computers already,
or who do but haven't heard of Ubuntu.

 Is there a real desire to promote the use of Ubuntu and, if so, why?

Yes.  There's a chicken-and-egg thing going on at the moment.  Some
hardware vendors refuse to produce open drivers/firmware for Linux
because they say there isn't the demand.  By growing our user base, we
debunk that myth and also expand the community of people able to help out.

I also think it is essential that computing is accessible to as many
people as possible.  I've recently been looking for a new job, and a few
people have asked me if I have experience with Microsoft Visual Studio.
 I had to explain that it was too expensive for me, and the only way I
had access to Visual Studio was via a summer placement at University.
Otherwise I would have struggled to get any job requiring experience of
Visual Studio, because the only way I could get that experience was in a
job using Visual Studio.

I've also been asked a lot for a Microsoft Word version of my CV.  I had
to explain that I maintain it in HTML, which is readable on any computer
with a web browser -- even my mobile phone can be used to view my CV --
because I value open standards.  I was even told by one agency that MS
Word is a standard format and had to explain that no, actually, it's not.

 Who do you expect to be interested enough to even give Ubuntu a try?

I imagine anyone who needs to use a computer would be interested in free
software that doesn't try to restrict how you use it and forces you to
pay to upgrade when your current version does everything you need it to,
just because everyone else has.

 What is your personal motive in all this activity to produce a leaflet?

See my second comment above.  It would be remiss of me not to also state
that I intend to try and make money offering paid-for support amongst
other things, but my primary objective is to spread the word and expand
the community -- people won't come to pay me for support they can get
elsewhere, so I'm not expecting a free ride.

 How, why and when did you start using Ubuntu and which operating system
 were you using before conversion?

My wife started using Ubuntu before I did.  She's non-technical, but
wanted a computer for browsing the web, sending/receiving e-mail,
talking to me at work via instant messaging, managing her business
accounts and producing letters, quotes and invoices.  I got hold of an
old machine for free, with an AMD K6-2/550 and 256MB RAM, but no hard
drive and no software.

I'd originally got her on Red Hat 7.1, but I got pretty frustrated with
it, particularly the RPM package manager.  I was using Debian unstable
on my desktop and a couple of servers and was impressed by apt, but
didn't consider Debian either stable enough (duh!) or friendly enough
for my wife.  So when the first Ubuntu Live CD came out (Breezy, in
October 2005?), I got her to try it out for a week or so.  She liked it,
apart from the fact that it was so slow, so I installed it for her.  Her
machine has since been upgraded to a 933MHz Celeron and runs Dapper just
fine.

I was still running Debian unstable on my desktop when I bought a new
laptop with Windows XP Pro X64.  I even booted XP a couple of times.
But for most of the first couple of months, I used Ubuntu from a Live
CD, until I eventually decided to go ahead and install it.

 What makes you believe that your knowledge and experience qualifies you
 to produce a leaflet?

You will note that so far, I haven't produced anything.  I merely poked
the hornet's nest, so to speak, after Alan Pope had originally made the
suggestion.  However, I do have around 10 years' experience using
Linux-based operating systems on desktops and servers, as well as
providing support to friends and family for a wide range of computer
problems, so I have a reasonable idea of the types of problems normal
people tend to come across.

 There is no compulsion, of course, for you to respond to the above and I
 shall not feel hurt if you don't. Unless there is a good reason for me
 to say more I am now finished with the subject. The best of luck and
 stick with it if it makes you feel good.

One of the things I've been most impressed and heartened by in this
discussion is the collaboration.  The community, in my opinion, is one
of the major benefits that Free software, and Ubuntu in particular,
offers to people.  Free, open discussions, bouncing ideas back and
forth, comments and suggestions have led to some

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

2007-06-19 Thread Matthew Larsen

Just another thought...

When building the graphics on the leaflet I was thinking about putting
on the logos for Kubuntu, Edubuntu, Xubuntu and UbuntuStudio. I took
them off in the end because I thought it just over-complicated the
leaflet and would make things even more confused. As they are all
derivatives of Ubuntu as well I thought it best to leave it to the
reader to explore the different versions.

Any thoughts?

Regards,

On 18/06/07, Matthew Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Here is my idea for the graphics and title page of the leaflet, I
 based it on your's Chris. I didnt change any of the text (apart from
 the title)

 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Leaflets?action=AttachFiledo=gettarget=leaflet2_matthewgraphicsversion.pdf

 Regards,

 
  Chris
 
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  https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
 


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

2007-06-19 Thread norman

Thanks to all of you for replying to the questions. I applaud what you
are doing and wish you every success. It would be wonderful if you could
achieve what you are aiming for and I hope you will not be too
disappointed. I am sure that, if we all use the facilities we have to
promote Ubuntu, constant dripping may help to bring about that which we
desire.

Norman


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

2007-06-19 Thread alan c

Matthew Larsen wrote:
 Just another thought...
 
 When building the graphics on the leaflet I was thinking about
 putting on the logos for Kubuntu, Edubuntu, Xubuntu and
 UbuntuStudio. I took them off in the end because I thought it just
 over-complicated the leaflet and would make things even more
 confused. As they are all derivatives of Ubuntu as well I thought
 it best to leave it to the reader to explore the different
 versions.
 
 Any thoughts?

I think the Ubuntu Logo and name (alone) would stand well on a
leaflet. It help to focus the 'Brand'.

I can imagine car window stickers

'We do it with Ubuntu'
'Ubuntu Rocks!'
'Ubuntu'

It is not necessary in many situations to complicate with thoughts of
other product family members, Linux or whatever, just get it across
that it is either Ubuntu or Windows. Simple.

They think:
'What is Ubuntu, it is being compared with Windows?'
It is most likely to prompt a non technical reader to at least find
out more.
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

2007-06-19 Thread Chris Rowson

 This sparked off an idea... could we have a version of the leaflet targeted 
 at being handed out with a live cd included?

 Johnathon

I had puzzled that one over myself. Seems to me that if someone
actually had the CD too, it'd be one less excuse!

I did wonder however what the best format would be for that kinda
thing (paper wise). I'll add it to the wiki and see what people come
up with.

Chris

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

I had a bash with graphics now ;-)

Chris

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

Oh yeah - sorry heres a link

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Leaflets?action=AttachFiledo=gettarget=leaflet2_withgraphics_chris_rowson.pdf

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hey thats pretty nifty, definatly getting there. Some of the wording I
feel could be changed however, things like 'The Demo mode' could be
replaced with: What you see is a trial version of ubuntu which lets
you play with it without installing to see if you like it. The bit
about keeping your family safe I feel is a bit alienating too, maybe
just leave it as Keep your computer safe. I like the personalization
of your wording a lot, it makes it sound like your computer is a
little doggy and your taking care of it by installing ubuntu :P

The why is it free bit doesn't actually explain why it is free. I feel
it should be replaced with a small segment about FOSS instead of
canonical. I think the line 'Canonical makes money by selling
technical support to business users' should be dropped - even thought
it is true. Firstly it will make people gawk and think they get no
support if they don't pay up or have to pay if they use ubuntu for
business. It also looks a bit 'evil'. Maybe putting something like
Canonical is an organisation which provides paid-for technical
support for Ubuntu with some of their profits going back into the
development of Ubuntu to keep it free or something like that.

I love the 'bliss' cover image :P What a pisser. It would be awesome
with a no-smoking sign crossing out the windows logo. It's also good
because it *kind of* provides instant recognition that we are talking
about OS's / Windows

On another note I feel one of the strongest aspects of getting people
over to ubuntu is to remain compatible with windows. We need to
explicitly say that you can still open all your office documents,
connect to windows shares, migrate your e-mail, use MSN, play WMA's,
use windows apps, etc. My view is that whoever picks up the leaflet is
interested in the knowledge that there are MS alternatives and they
must have some inkling to change otherwise they wouldn't read it.
Therefore we should provide info and support on switching

Regards,

On 18/06/07, Chris Rowson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Oh yeah - sorry heres a link

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Leaflets?action=AttachFiledo=gettarget=leaflet2_withgraphics_chris_rowson.pdf

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

On Mon, 2007-06-18 at 15:11 +0100, Matthew Larsen wrote:
 hey thats pretty nifty, definatly getting there. Some of the wording I
 feel could be changed however, things like 'The Demo mode' could be
 replaced with: What you see is a trial version of ubuntu which lets
 you play with it without installing to see if you like it.

Trial implies to me free version, you'll pay later.


 The why is it free bit doesn't actually explain why it is free. I feel
 it should be replaced with a small segment about FOSS instead of
 canonical. I think the line 'Canonical makes money by selling
 technical support to business users' should be dropped - even thought
 it is true. Firstly it will make people gawk and think they get no
 support if they don't pay up or have to pay if they use ubuntu for
 business. It also looks a bit 'evil'. Maybe putting something like
 Canonical is an organisation which provides paid-for technical
 support for Ubuntu with some of their profits going back into the
 development of Ubuntu to keep it free or something like that.
 

Agreed.

Cheers,
Al.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

2007-06-18 Thread Matthew Macdonald-Wallace

Quoting Chris Rowson [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Oh yeah - sorry heres a link

 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Leaflets?action=AttachFiledo=gettarget=leaflet2_withgraphics_chris_rowson.pdf

Damn... that's good.

I agree about the wording points that have been raised, but I'm  
printing these for SFD and using them in Thanet!

Cheers,

Matt.
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

 Damn... that's good.

 I agree about the wording points that have been raised, but I'm
 printing these for SFD and using them in Thanet!


Wow thanks :-D

I used OO.org Draw but it was on Windows (I'm at work and the ubuntu
box was in use) so I cheated a bit.

Just go to the leaflets page in the wiki and swap out any text you
don't like - the original draw file is in there for anyone to edit.

Cheers

Chris

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

On Mon, 2007-06-18 at 14:36 +0100, Chris Rowson wrote:
 Oh yeah - sorry heres a link
 
 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Leaflets?action=AttachFiledo=gettarget=leaflet2_withgraphics_chris_rowson.pdf
 

Nice. Showed it to a friend whose first reaction was

It needs capital letters.

Also note the URL broken over two lines. URLs could legitimately be in a
smaller font I suspect, and you could make that one smaller:-

help.ubuntu.com/community/BurningIsoHowto

could also be

wiki.ubuntu.com/BurningIsoHowto

Which redirects for you.

Cheers,
Al.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

 Nice. Showed it to a friend whose first reaction was

 It needs capital letters.

Yeah, my friend said that too - I was trying to be funky and
unconventional :-P I could put 'em in though!

 Also note the URL broken over two lines. URLs could legitimately be in a
 smaller font I suspect, and you could make that one smaller:-


Never thought of it - that's a good idea.

 Cheers,
 Al.

Cheers

Chris

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

2007-06-18 Thread Louisa Parry

Hi Chris (and since it's my first post to the list, a general hello to
all too)

I like your pretty version but have a few very minor (proofreading-y)
niggles.

Panel 2 'why bother?'
- point 3 - there seems to be a comma issue here - I'd either add one
after run on it (ubuntu, and the programs that run on it, are free)
or I'd remove the one from after ubuntu (ubuntu and the programs that
run on it are free)
- point 4 - wont should have an apostrophe in it - won't
- the spacing between the heading and the text in the 'why is it free?'
section seems inconsistent with the heading/text spacing elsewhere (not
a big deal obviously - I'm just anal enough to notice)

Panel 4 'lets fix your pc'
- heading - should be let's since it's short for let us
- para 3 - I don't think software packages would mean much to a
non-techie - programs (as used elsewhere in the leaflet) would be
better imho

Panel 6 'install'
- para 5 - I'd hyphenated double clicking but that's possible just me

Also I couldn't help but notice that the word 'linux' isn't used at all
in the leaflet.  Is this intentional because it's a bit too scary/geeky
sounding?  Personally I would think it would be more important to
mention that in the 'why is it free?' section than the stuff about
Canonical...

-Louisa :)

On Mon, 2007-06-18 at 14:36 +0100, Chris Rowson wrote:
 Oh yeah - sorry heres a link
 
 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Leaflets?action=AttachFiledo=gettarget=leaflet2_withgraphics_chris_rowson.pdf
 


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

2007-06-18 Thread Matthew Macdonald-Wallace

Quoting Louisa Parry [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

snip /

 Also I couldn't help but notice that the word 'linux' isn't used at all
 in the leaflet.  Is this intentional because it's a bit too scary/geeky
 sounding?  Personally I would think it would be more important to
 mention that in the 'why is it free?' section than the stuff about
 Canonical...

Louisa,

Over the last few years, I've discovered that many people get confused  
if I mention Linux as they want to know what it is and why it is  
owned by a large number of companies but mainly by people who make  
very little (if any) money from it and isn't available as a product  
per-se and how it can be free if people work on it and why it is  
downloaded and who are these people who aren't microsoft and etc,  
etc... [0]

Sometimes, leaving the Linux bit out is a bit easier.  My approach  
is to get people using the software first [1], then tell them what  
linux is and help them understand the culture behind them.

Cheers,

Matt

[0] isn't stream of conciousness a wonderful thing? :oP
[1] Beryl/Compiz on a five year-old laptop is my best marketing tool  
at the moment... ;o)

-- 
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

On 18/06/07, Louisa Parry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Chris (and since it's my first post to the list, a general hello to
 all too)

 I like your pretty version but have a few very minor (proofreading-y)
 niggles.

Thanks :-)

Hi Louisa, I'll go through it when I get home and make some
amendments. There are a few suggestions in this thread that I need to
put in, I'll add your proofreading fixes too :-)

 Also I couldn't help but notice that the word 'linux' isn't used at all
 in the leaflet.  Is this intentional because it's a bit too scary/geeky
 sounding?  Personally I would think it would be more important to
 mention that in the 'why is it free?' section than the stuff about
 Canonical...

 -Louisa :)

Yeah, I did kinda leave it out intentionally. A few people have
misconceptions about what Linux is and isn't, especially because of
the FUD that MS is dishing out at the moment. I think sometimes it's
perhaps better to get them hooked first then tell them it's Linux when
they like it already :-)

Chris

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

Hi there, welcome to the list :-)

Firstly thanks for the spelling mistake point-outs, however we are
only at the initial stages of making this thing and havn't even
decided on its content yet so I am personally forgiving any mistakes
like that until we have a final draft.

About linux not being mentioned, I'm not so sure about including it.
Firstly yes, it is a bit scary/geeky if we start bandying around terms
like linux, UNIX, kernel etc in a leaflet to promote Ubuntu to
non-technical users. It could also get very confusing and soak up a
lot of leaflet space explaining why linux is not UNIX, the difference
between Linux and GNU/Linux etc.

Maybe we could put an explanation in the 'install' bit - something
like: INSTALL: Hit the install button and grab a cuppa; lets explain a
bit about what Ubuntu is: Ubuntu is an operating system that is based
on a core piece of programming called the Kernel. The kernel controls
all the *etc*. As you can see this will take ages to explain in simple
terms and the reader may have more questions afterwards than before.
It might be better to include a link to an explanation (To read about
how Ubuntu works under the hood visit ...) or another leaflet which
explains what linux is. (wild shot in the dark but it could be a 3
piece series of leaflets: 1) FOSS 2) Linux 3) Ubuntu).

Regards,

On 18/06/07, Louisa Parry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Chris (and since it's my first post to the list, a general hello to
 all too)

 I like your pretty version but have a few very minor (proofreading-y)
 niggles.

 Panel 2 'why bother?'
 - point 3 - there seems to be a comma issue here - I'd either add one
 after run on it (ubuntu, and the programs that run on it, are free)
 or I'd remove the one from after ubuntu (ubuntu and the programs that
 run on it are free)
 - point 4 - wont should have an apostrophe in it - won't
 - the spacing between the heading and the text in the 'why is it free?'
 section seems inconsistent with the heading/text spacing elsewhere (not
 a big deal obviously - I'm just anal enough to notice)

 Panel 4 'lets fix your pc'
 - heading - should be let's since it's short for let us
 - para 3 - I don't think software packages would mean much to a
 non-techie - programs (as used elsewhere in the leaflet) would be
 better imho

 Panel 6 'install'
 - para 5 - I'd hyphenated double clicking but that's possible just me

 Also I couldn't help but notice that the word 'linux' isn't used at all
 in the leaflet.  Is this intentional because it's a bit too scary/geeky
 sounding?  Personally I would think it would be more important to
 mention that in the 'why is it free?' section than the stuff about
 Canonical...

 -Louisa :)

 On Mon, 2007-06-18 at 14:36 +0100, Chris Rowson wrote:
  Oh yeah - sorry heres a link
 
  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Leaflets?action=AttachFiledo=gettarget=leaflet2_withgraphics_chris_rowson.pdf
 


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 ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
 https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

2007-06-18 Thread Louisa Parry

On Mon, 2007-06-18 at 16:24 +0100, Matthew Macdonald-Wallace wrote:

 Over the last few years, I've discovered that many people get confused  
 if I mention Linux as they want to know what it is and why it is  
 owned by a large number of companies but mainly by people who make  
 very little (if any) money from it and isn't available as a product  
 per-se and how it can be free if people work on it and why it is  
 downloaded and who are these people who aren't microsoft and etc,  
 etc... 

I was really just asking to make sure it was a conscious decision (which
Chris says it was) and I suspect I was probably wrong to say the word
'Linux' (I meant more the FOSS in general and the community around it)
but I'm still not completely convinced about the current why it's
free? section.

Maybe it's because I'm rather sceptical (read: paranoid) about
corporations but at the moment I read it as Canonical made this and
that, as someone that didn't know any better, wouldn't make me feel any
more secure than Microsoft making it.  People are used to Microsoft et
al forcing them to do stuff that they might not want to do and they
might presume Canonical plays a similar role with ubuntu.  The leaflet
mentions that Canonical make money from business users (which might make
someone think they couldn't use it for business-related activities
without paying for it) and paranoid-me might worry that at any minute
Canonical could change their mind and start charging for the OS - or for
customer support of it.  They are a business in the business of making
money after all.

If *I* was reading it, I would prefer just something more along the
lines of the last paragraph - thousands of people around the world,
including us at ubuntu-uk.org, give their time to developing and
supporting ubuntu because they believe everyone deserves to have a free,
reliable and safe operating system - then I'd be less worried about the
evil business[1] stuff.  

Of course I'm not the target audience for this leaflet and other people
might more feel secure knowing there is a company running the show.  I
just thought I'd add my view on it.

-Louisa

[1] Joke.  I don't think Canonical are evil.  Aside from the Mark
Shuttleworth eating babies thing.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

2007-06-18 Thread alan c

Chris Rowson wrote:
 Oh yeah - sorry heres a link
 
 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Leaflets?action=AttachFiledo=gettarget=leaflet2_withgraphics_chris_rowson.pdf
 

Brilliant!
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

2007-06-18 Thread Louisa Parry

On Mon, 2007-06-18 at 16:46 +0100, Matthew Larsen wrote:
 
 Firstly thanks for the spelling mistake point-outs, however we are
 only at the initial stages of making this thing and havn't even
 decided on its content yet so I am personally forgiving any mistakes
 like that until we have a final draft.

I see your point but thought it was getting to its final stages so worth
chipping in with the minor corrections - it didn't cost me anything to
do so and I thought it would be better having the niggles fixed now
before people start to fork it for their own leaflet ideas.

I also think it might be an idea to mark it (and other leaflets in a
similar state) as a draft on the wiki so random strangers don't come
across them and treat them as final products.

-Louisa :)

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

2007-06-18 Thread norman

I have kept out of the way for a long time but I have now reached the
point where I must say something. Several years ago attempts were made
to get me interested in Linux with no success. After all, Linux was a
very complicated business, worse than DOS, well I thought so, which I
had left for Windows. I did not understand the words these Linux persons
used and so I stayed with Windows. Then, almost 2 years ago I heard
whispers about a system called Ubuntu and then I was shown a screen
which looked similar to Windows. 

One thing lead to another and, in September 2005, I agreed to load
Ubuntu onto my desktop. I was pleasantly surprised and I agreed to try
to use Ubuntu. There were certain difficulties in being weaned from
Windows but I stuck with it and since then I have used no other.

Certain points emerge from this experience that I want to mention.
Firstly, there were no references to Linux until I was using Ubuntu.
Secondly, the fact of lots of free software, easily available, was
exciting and fired my imagination. As I got more involved, the ease with
which I could ask questions and get answers was a great experience and
quite suddenly I found that I could even make contributions which were
appreciated. The whole community thing I found very gratifying and,
despite times when 'upgrades' have caused me problems with the sort of
things I do, answers were always found.

I suppose I changed initially, not because I disliked Widows, but
because I enjoy a challenge. You know the sort of thing, mountains are
there to be climbed and something new is there to be tried. So, with
patience and help, I have become a died in the wool Ubuntu user. I am
not interested in names, I am not interested in Linux I use Ubuntu.

Norman   


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

2007-06-18 Thread alan c

Matthew Macdonald-Wallace wrote:
 Quoting Louisa Parry [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 
 snip /
 
 Also I couldn't help but notice that the word 'linux' isn't used
  at all in the leaflet.  Is this intentional because it's a bit 
 too scary/geeky sounding?  Personally I would think it would be 
 more important to mention that in the 'why is it free?' section 
 than the stuff about Canonical...
 
 Louisa,
 
 Over the last few years, I've discovered that many people get 
 confused if I mention Linux as they want to know what it is and 
 why it is owned by a large number of companies but mainly by 
 people who make very little (if any) money from it and isn't 
 available as a product per-se and how it can be free if people 
 work on it and why it is downloaded and who are these people who 
 aren't microsoft and etc, etc... [0]
 
 Sometimes, leaving the Linux bit out is a bit easier.  My 
 approach is to get people using the software first [1], then tell 
 them what linux is and help them understand the culture behind 
 them.

Yes I think there is something in that.
In my local leaflet I tried to cover everything from open source
philosophy to linux and  ubuntu.

A family member who is a very bright and non technical computer end
user, with an eye for marketing said that in my leaflet there were

'too many points being covered, and that I was left a bit confused.
Oh, - and is linux - an 'operating system?'

This was a person who knew I was spending 24 hopurs a day using and
advocating ubuntu.

To my eyes, it was all perfectly clear, however the comment signalled
I should focus on several issues with a single topic in each - at
least when targetted to people who were non technical PC users.

Something like

leaflet 1
-  Free and Open Source - your choice?

leaflet 2
-  Windows and Linux - where its at?

leaflet 3
-  We do it with Ubuntu!

I am drafting the first just now and it was fairly easy to fill a
whole leaflet on the one topic.

  [0] isn't stream of conciousness a wonderful thing? :oP [1] 
 Beryl/Compiz on a five year-old laptop is my best marketing tool

What speed and ram has it got? I used an installed sabayon lite on an
Inspiron 1100, with  512 RAM and it was very slow. Pretty, but too
slow to be comfortable without a lot of care.

Maybe I should try it from K/Uubuntu?

-- 
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Kubuntu user#10391

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

2007-06-18 Thread alan c

Louisa Parry wrote:
 On Mon, 2007-06-18 at 16:24 +0100, Matthew Macdonald-Wallace wrote:
[...]
 If *I* was reading it, I would prefer just something more along the
 lines of the last paragraph - thousands of people around the world,
 including us at ubuntu-uk.org, give their time

free, as volunteers,

 to developing and
 supporting ubuntu because they believe everyone deserves to have a free,
 reliable and safe operating system - then I'd be less worried about the
 evil business[1] stuff.  
 
 Of course I'm not the target audience for this leaflet and other people
 might more feel secure knowing there is a company running the show.  I
 just thought I'd add my view on it.
 
 -Louisa
 
 [1] Joke.  I don't think Canonical are evil.  Aside from the Mark
 Shuttleworth eating babies thing.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

2007-06-18 Thread Alec Wright

On Mon, 2007-06-18 at 14:36 +0100, Chris Rowson wrote:
 Oh yeah - sorry heres a link
 
 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Leaflets?action=AttachFiledo=gettarget=leaflet2_withgraphics_chris_rowson.pdf
 
Another link you might want to add is http://screencasts.ubuntu.com -
Alan Pope's Ubuntu screencasts. If you want to download them via
bittorrent, you can get the torrent files from here:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/Torrents but don't put that link
in the leaflet :) There's mainly only me and Al seeding, so when youve
finished downloading, please seed!
-- 
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

2007-06-18 Thread Rob Beard

Chris Rowson wrote:
 Oh yeah - sorry heres a link
 
 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Leaflets?action=AttachFiledo=gettarget=leaflet2_withgraphics_chris_rowson.pdf
 

I like the graphics on that one.  Just out of interest, where did you 
get the picture of the field from?  (I'm assuming not that other OS 
beginning with W?)

Rob

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets


 I like the graphics on that one.  Just out of interest, where did you
 get the picture of the field from?  (I'm assuming not that other OS
 beginning with W?)

 Rob


I was waiting for someone to ask that :-P

I got it from a stock photo site http://www.sxc.hu

Chris

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

Latest revision with grammar, spelling, capitalisation and context
changes as discussed on the list:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Leaflets?action=AttachFiledo=gettarget=leaflet2_withgraphics_0.1_chris_rowson.pdf

Chris

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

2007-06-18 Thread Rob Beard

Chris Rowson wrote:
 I like the graphics on that one.  Just out of interest, where did you
 get the picture of the field from?  (I'm assuming not that other OS
 beginning with W?)

 Rob

 
 I was waiting for someone to ask that :-P
 
 I got it from a stock photo site http://www.sxc.hu
 
 Chris
 

Ahh thats good.  When I saw it I thought... hmmm, that looks like Telly 
Tubby land on XP.  I'm sure lots of people will see that and think 
Windows XP.  In fact I tested it on my other half.  I asked her what 
computer related thing she thinks of when she sees it and she said 
'Windows'.

That has to be a good way of drawing people into read it as they might 
think it's something related to Windows.

Just got a couple of comments...

Ubuntu is compatible with Windows
computers and programs.

Hmm, I'd be a bit concerned about Joe Bloggs trying to use any and every 
Windows app with Wine.  I must admit most things I throw at Wine work 
but there are also a few other apps that don't.

Also, since Ubuntu, Windows and Vista are trademarked, shouldn't there 
be something on there to say about the trademark holders (like very 
small print or something?)

Looking good anyway.

Just wondering too, are there any guides on the Ubuntu Wiki to help 
Windows users move over to Linux, for instance finding alternatives to 
all their favourite applications?

Ta,

Rob

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

Here is my idea for the graphics and title page of the leaflet, I
based it on your's Chris. I didnt change any of the text (apart from
the title)

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Leaflets?action=AttachFiledo=gettarget=leaflet2_matthewgraphicsversion.pdf

Regards,


 Chris

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

On Mon, 2007-06-18 at 20:42 +0100, Chris Rowson wrote:
 Latest revision with grammar, spelling, capitalisation and context
 changes as discussed on the list:
 
 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Leaflets?action=AttachFiledo=gettarget=leaflet2_withgraphics_0.1_chris_rowson.pdf
 

This gets better with every revision. Keep up the good work Chris.

One thing to note is that if these were to be printed en-masse you might
need to format it in such a way that a printer would accept it. I know
_nothing_ about this of course, but I know they like CYMK and all the
funky coloured blobs and lines around it [technical term]. 

Someone else needs to speak up to say what to do (assuming you don't
already know).

Cheers,
Al.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

Don't worry about CMYK or that stuff for now, I have a bit of
experience with it so can deal with it when the need arises.

Good point though :)

Something to bear in mind is that it should look good in Gray scale
and colour. Easier to photocopy gray scale en-masse.

Regards.

On 18/06/07, Alan Pope [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Mon, 2007-06-18 at 20:42 +0100, Chris Rowson wrote:
  Latest revision with grammar, spelling, capitalisation and context
  changes as discussed on the list:
 
  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Leaflets?action=AttachFiledo=gettarget=leaflet2_withgraphics_0.1_chris_rowson.pdf
 

 This gets better with every revision. Keep up the good work Chris.

 One thing to note is that if these were to be printed en-masse you might
 need to format it in such a way that a printer would accept it. I know
 _nothing_ about this of course, but I know they like CYMK and all the
 funky coloured blobs and lines around it [technical term].

 Someone else needs to speak up to say what to do (assuming you don't
 already know).

 Cheers,
 Al.

 --
 ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
 https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
 https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/





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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

Hi Rob,

On Mon, 2007-06-18 at 21:16 +0100, Rob Beard wrote:
 Ahh thats good.  When I saw it I thought... hmmm, that looks like Telly 
 Tubby land on XP.  I'm sure lots of people will see that and think 
 Windows XP.  In fact I tested it on my other half.  I asked her what 
 computer related thing she thinks of when she sees it and she said 
 'Windows'.
 

Wherever it comes from it needs to be licensed in such a way that we can
redistribute it freely of course :)

 Ubuntu is compatible with Windows
 computers and programs.
 

Maybe Ubuntu is compatible with Windows and Mac based computers. The
software is another matter.

 Also, since Ubuntu, Windows and Vista are trademarked, shouldn't there 
 be something on there to say about the trademark holders (like very 
 small print or something?)
 

IANAL and I suspect we would need to consult one before deciding on
that.

 Just wondering too, are there any guides on the Ubuntu Wiki to help 
 Windows users move over to Linux, for instance finding alternatives to 
 all their favourite applications?

http://www.osalt.com/

Cheers,
Al.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

Hi Matthew,

On Mon, 2007-06-18 at 21:25 +0100, Matthew Larsen wrote:
 Here is my idea for the graphics and title page of the leaflet, I
 based it on your's Chris. I didnt change any of the text (apart from
 the title)
 
 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Leaflets?action=AttachFiledo=gettarget=leaflet2_matthewgraphicsversion.pdf

Nice. I love the fact that this is a real collaborative effort. With
input from multiple community members. 

For your version I find the contrast between the black text and dark
green background hard to read. Personally I am not a fan of the curvy
rectangles round text (as also used in ubuntumagazine incidentally) but
that may be just personal preference. It makes the whole thing a bit
busy in my book.

Cheers,
Al.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

 Wherever it comes from it needs to be licensed in such a way that we can
 redistribute it freely of course :)

Licensing for the tellytubby image... (seems OK to me)

We hereby grant to You a non-exclusive, non-transferable license to
use the Image on the terms and conditions explained in this Agreement
and on the Image preview page FREE OF CHARGE.

You may use the Image

* In digital format on websites, multimedia presentations,
broadcast film and video, cell phones.
* In printed promotional materials, magazines, newspapers, books,
brochures, flyers, CD/DVD covers, etc.
* Along with your corporate identity on business cards, letterhead, etc.
* To decorate your home, your office or any public place.

You may not use the Image

* For pornographic, unlawful or other immoral purposes, for
spreading hate or discrimination, or to defame or victimise other
people, sociteties, cultures.
* To endorse products and services if it depicts a person.
* In a way that can give a bad name to SXC or the person(s)
depicted on the Image.
* As part of a trademark, service mark or logo.
* SELLING AND REDISTRIBUTION OF THE IMAGE (INDIVIDUALLY OR ALONG
WITH OTHER IMAGES) IS STRICTLY FORBIDDEN! DO NOT SHARE THE IMAGE WITH
OTHERS!

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

 Nice. I love the fact that this is a real collaborative effort. With
 input from multiple community members.

Yeah, I gotta agree with you there Alan, I'm also liking this
community working vibe :-D

Chris

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

2007-06-18 Thread Ian Pascoe

Chris, nice one mate.

Going back to the previous thread on this subject, we need to get a style
that everyone accepts and move on from there.

Maybe the next leaflet should be a What is Linux on one side and a What
is the Community on the other, or if there's sufficient to write about one
leaflet each.  But I agree that the Ubuntu one should be the first out of
the bag, with these other ones held in the background for when people ask
about it.

E

PS  Sorry to read about your septic words Louisa grins, dives behind sofa

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of alan c
Sent: 18 June 2007 17:55
To: British Ubuntu Talk
Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets


Matthew Macdonald-Wallace wrote:
 Quoting Louisa Parry [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 snip /

 Also I couldn't help but notice that the word 'linux' isn't used
  at all in the leaflet.  Is this intentional because it's a bit
 too scary/geeky sounding?  Personally I would think it would be
 more important to mention that in the 'why is it free?' section
 than the stuff about Canonical...

 Louisa,

 Over the last few years, I've discovered that many people get
 confused if I mention Linux as they want to know what it is and
 why it is owned by a large number of companies but mainly by
 people who make very little (if any) money from it and isn't
 available as a product per-se and how it can be free if people
 work on it and why it is downloaded and who are these people who
 aren't microsoft and etc, etc... [0]

 Sometimes, leaving the Linux bit out is a bit easier.  My
 approach is to get people using the software first [1], then tell
 them what linux is and help them understand the culture behind
 them.

Yes I think there is something in that.
In my local leaflet I tried to cover everything from open source
philosophy to linux and  ubuntu.

A family member who is a very bright and non technical computer end
user, with an eye for marketing said that in my leaflet there were

'too many points being covered, and that I was left a bit confused.
Oh, - and is linux - an 'operating system?'

This was a person who knew I was spending 24 hopurs a day using and
advocating ubuntu.

To my eyes, it was all perfectly clear, however the comment signalled
I should focus on several issues with a single topic in each - at
least when targetted to people who were non technical PC users.

Something like

leaflet 1
-  Free and Open Source - your choice?

leaflet 2
-  Windows and Linux - where its at?

leaflet 3
-  We do it with Ubuntu!

I am drafting the first just now and it was fairly easy to fill a
whole leaflet on the one topic.

  [0] isn't stream of conciousness a wonderful thing? :oP [1]
 Beryl/Compiz on a five year-old laptop is my best marketing tool

What speed and ram has it got? I used an installed sabayon lite on an
Inspiron 1100, with  512 RAM and it was very slow. Pretty, but too
slow to be comfortable without a lot of care.

Maybe I should try it from K/Uubuntu?

--
alan cocks
Kubuntu user#10391

--
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/



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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets

2007-06-18 Thread Ian Pascoe

Ah, Web 2.0 formatting!

Seriously though, nice one Matt and I agree with Alan.

To re-iterate one point though, think of it being printed grey scale, and
also aim to keep contrasts high between text and background.  There's
nothing worse than getting to the juicy bit of a leaflet to find that the
text and background colours are so close together that it's a real struggle
to read.

E

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Alan Pope
Sent: 18 June 2007 21:50
To: British Ubuntu Talk
Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets


Hi Matthew,

On Mon, 2007-06-18 at 21:25 +0100, Matthew Larsen wrote:
 Here is my idea for the graphics and title page of the leaflet, I
 based it on your's Chris. I didnt change any of the text (apart from
 the title)


https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Leaflets?action=AttachFiledo=gettarget=leaf
let2_matthewgraphicsversion.pdf

Nice. I love the fact that this is a real collaborative effort. With
input from multiple community members.

For your version I find the contrast between the black text and dark
green background hard to read. Personally I am not a fan of the curvy
rectangles round text (as also used in ubuntumagazine incidentally) but
that may be just personal preference. It makes the whole thing a bit
busy in my book.

Cheers,
Al.



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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets