Re: [Vo]:...CBS TV's 60 Minutes Turns Up the Heat
Finally! Thanks for keeping tabs on this, Steve. Just remember folks: any publicity is good publicity, or as a British writer put it, it's always good to see your name in the papers, other than in the obituaries. (And cold fusion has been in the obits countless times.) - Jed
Re: [Vo]:...CBS TV's 60 Minutes Turns Up the Heat
Finally! Thanks for keeping tabs on this, Steve. Just remember folks: any publicity is good publicity, or as a British writer put it, it's always good to see your name in the papers, other than in the obituaries. (And cold fusion has been in the obits countless times.) - Jed Steve, or Jed Any speculation as to why 60 Minutes has decided, now, to do an article on this subject? Was there a specific tipping point, or have they been quietly watching this field for some time now. Cumulative effect? I would love to know whom they have interviewed. Guess we shall soon know. My sense is that it will probably be a positive installment. 60 M often seems to side with the underdog. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:...CBS TV's 60 Minutes Turns Up the Heat
Here is the LENR-CANR news section announcement. Note that I included the link to the CBS website announcement. CBS 60 Minutes reports on cold fusion April 2009 The CBS newsmagazine 60 minutes will report on cold fusion on April 19, 2009. See: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/1998/07/08/60minutes/main13502.shtmlhttp://www.cbsnews.com/stories/1998/07/08/60minutes/main13502.shtml COLD FUSION IS HOT AGAIN - Presented in 1989 as a revolutionary new source of energy, cold fusion was quickly dismissed as junk science. But today, the buzz among scientists is that these experiments produce a real physical effect that could lead to monumental breakthroughs in energy production. Scott Pelley reports. Denise Schrier Cetta is the producer. A detailed description of the broadcast is here: http://newenergytimes.com/v2/news/2009/60MinutesTurnsUptheHeat.shtmlhttp://newenergytimes.com/v2/news/2009/60MinutesTurnsUptheHeat.shtml CBS asked Prof. Robert Duncan to do an independent evaluation of the literature and to visit researchers and experiments. Duncan has not performed cold fusion experiments himself and had the impression that the original claims were mistaken. He now says I am convinced that this excess-heat effect is real. Most experts who have conducted independent evaluations of cold fusion have concluded the effect is real, notably Garwin, and Gerisher, who wrote: In spite of my earlier conclusion, -- and that of the majority of scientists, -- that the phenomena reported by Fleischmann and Pons in 1989 depended either on measurement errors or were of chemical origin, there is now undoubtedly overwhelming indications that nuclear processes take place in the metal alloys. See: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/GerischerHiscoldfusi.pdfhttp://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/GerischerHiscoldfusi.pdf
Re: [Vo]:...CBS TV's 60 Minutes Turns Up the Heat
OrionWorks wrote: Any speculation as to why 60 Minutes has decided, now, to do an article on this subject? They have been working on it since before ICCF14. I do not know what triggered their interest at this particular time but I know they have been in contact with many researchers such as Mike Melich over the years. People like Melich have done a lot for the field, cultivating interest in high places. The people at CBS do their homework, unlike many other reporters. It must have cost them a fortune to produce this short segment. I would love to know whom they have interviewed. Guess we shall soon know. Krivit's coverage mentions the person I think is most important: Robert Duncan. Not that I consider him the preeminent expert on anything like that but he is an outsider to the field which gives him credibility. Of course now that he says he believes it, the skeptics will say he is an insider who has lost all credibility. Krivit mentioned that fellow Dwight Williams from the Discovery Channel broadcast: http://science.discovery.com/videos/brink-news-evidence-of-nuclear-fusion.html I wrote about him elsewhere (or was it here?): This show is generally supportive, but the interviewer talks to a DOE physicist Dr. Dwight Williams, who claims that cold fusion was never replicated. Clearly he did not bother to read the peer-reviewed literature. Scientists get their information from the mass media as often as anyone. They seldom bother to look at journal papers. - Jed
[Vo]:Energetics Technology website features 60 Minutes preview
The people at Energetics Technology put the video preview on their front page: http://superwavefusion.com/ This is one of the few groups of researchers in cold fusion who have a knack for public relations. Plus they know how to do a solid demonstration as well as a solid experiment. The two are not quite the same. They did a great job impressing Prof. Duncan! I told Tanya congratulations. I found something a little unexpected in the website. Click on the video here: http://superwavefusion.com/the-process/ It is a bla, bla, bla conventional explanation of cold fusion. Then at 1:10 (timestamp from the end of the video) it says the deuterons begin to move more collectively, like a school of fish and it gets interesting. I am not sure what this refers to. Perhaps the Chubb theory? - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Energetics Technology website features 60 Minutes preview
From Jed, The people at Energetics Technology put the video preview on their front page: http://superwavefusion.com/ This is one of the few groups of researchers in cold fusion who have a knack for public relations. Plus they know how to do a solid demonstration as well as a solid experiment. The two are not quite the same. They did a great job impressing Prof. Duncan! I told Tanya congratulations. I found something a little unexpected in the website. Click on the video here: http://superwavefusion.com/the-process/ It is a bla, bla, bla conventional explanation of cold fusion. Then at 1:10 (timestamp from the end of the video) it says the deuterons begin to move more collectively, like a school of fish and it gets interesting. I am not sure what this refers to. Perhaps the Chubb theory? I believe I've seen this video before, or at least a variation of it. What does Chubb's theory entail? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Energetics Technology website features 60 Minutes preview
OrionWorks wrote: It is a bla, bla, bla conventional explanation of cold fusion. Then at 1:10 (timestamp from the end of the video) it says the deuterons begin to move more collectively, like a school of fish and it gets interesting. I am not sure what this refers to. Perhaps the Chubb theory? I believe I've seen this video before, or at least a variation of it. What does Chubb's theory entail? Honestly, God only knows -- that level of physics is far over my head -- but it sounds a bit like a school of fish to me. It involves a bunch of deuterons with overlapping wave functions, which lose their identity and begin acting as one, sort of like people joining the Hare Krishna cult (or religion if it is tax deductible). The heat is dispersed over millions of deuterons instead of originating at a single location which is why it does not produce a sharp 24 MeV jolt in a single particle. For more information, see Scott Talbot Chubb's papers. - Jed
[Vo]:It will be ironic if 60 Minutes has a major effect
If 60 Minutes has a major effect on public opinion, and helps free up funding for the field, that will not surprise me. But it will be ironic. It will demonstrate that scientists and decision makers in government tend to be more influenced by the mass media than by scientific publications. The tide does seem to be turning. Press coverage is more friendly than it used to be. More facts and fewer rumors are reported. But funding is still dreadfully restricted and I still fear that the researchers will not live long enough to make significant progress. Based on previous press reports favorable toward cold fusion, such as a report of the Arata experiment last year, I predict this event it will increase Internet chatter and traffic to LENR-CANR for a few weeks, and then fade away. But the effect may linger long enough to jog a few decision-makers to allocate a few more dollars, or perhaps a few million more! And that is all we need. We require an end to the beginning, if not the beginning of the end. We do not need Nature and Scientific American to wave a white flag and admit they were wrong. I predict that the present editors and writers at these journals will never do that, unless commercial products are rolled out, which I regard as highly unlikely under the present circumstances. But I could be wrong about them. I never imaged that Robert Park would give an inch. Of course he needs to give a mile, which he will never do. The other day I told Mizuno that Maddox died, and I related the famous quote about cold fusion will remain dead for a long time which is surely an enigmatic thing to say. Did he mean that he hoped it would revive only after he was gone? Mizuno responded: perhaps I should be angry at the man but honestly I pity him. Here was the most important and interesting discovery in his lifetime and he never even looked at it. What a wasted opportunity. That is how I feel about the whole history of cold fusion. So much talent wasted; so many years. So many energy problems could have been solved by now, and so many lives saved, if only scientists had done their job. I do not blame the mass media for this sad history. I blame scientists and scientific administrators at places like the DOE and the APS. The ones who never looked at the experiments. They never did their jobs. Huizenga and the DoE review panels. Of course there is plenty of blame to go around. Even the cold fusion researchers share a small tiny fraction of the blame for this fiasco, but they are more sinned against than sinning. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:...CBS TV's 60 Minutes Turns Up the Heat
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 4:27 PM, Steven Krivit stev...@newenergytimes.com wrote: Why now? Could it be because the Oilies are Out of Office? Oh! Terry
Re: [Vo]:Energetics Technology website features 60 Minutes preview
Jed sez: What does Chubb's theory entail? Honestly, God only knows -- that level of physics is far over my head -- but it sounds a bit like a school of fish to me. It involves a bunch of deuterons with overlapping wave functions, which lose their identity and begin acting as one, sort of like people joining the Hare Krishna cult (or religion if it is tax deductible). The heat is dispersed over millions of deuterons instead of originating at a single location which is why it does not produce a sharp 24 MeV jolt in a single particle. For more information, see Scott Talbot Chubb's papers. - Jed Ah, yes. The HK Hare Krishna hypothesis. Atoms loosing their identity. That's as good an explanation as any I've heard! ;-) Thanks, Jed. Regards, Steven would-you-like-to-make-a-donation Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:It will be ironic if 60 Minutes has a major effect
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: So many energy problems could have been solved by now, and so many lives saved, if only scientists had done their job. But the need was not as great as it is now. We have always said, on this list, that $5/gal oil would make a difference. IMO, it has. Terry
Re: [Vo]:Energetics Technology website features 60 Minutes preview
Actually I think this is what Frank Znidarsic has been trying to get at with his electromagnetic Bose condensate convergence of the motion constants ideas but he has a very opaque method of explanation. Ron --On Friday, April 17, 2009 3:49 PM -0400 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: OrionWorks wrote: It is a bla, bla, bla conventional explanation of cold fusion. Then at 1:10 (timestamp from the end of the video) it says the deuterons begin to move more collectively, like a school of fish and it gets interesting. I am not sure what this refers to. Perhaps the Chubb theory? I believe I've seen this video before, or at least a variation of it. What does Chubb's theory entail? Honestly, God only knows -- that level of physics is far over my head -- but it sounds a bit like a school of fish to me. It involves a bunch of deuterons with overlapping wave functions, which lose their identity and begin acting as one, sort of like people joining the Hare Krishna cult (or religion if it is tax deductible). The heat is dispersed over millions of deuterons instead of originating at a single location which is why it does not produce a sharp 24 MeV jolt in a single particle. For more information, see Scott Talbot Chubb's papers. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:It will be ironic if 60 Minutes has a major effect
Note that Google Trends shows a gradual decline in interest in the subject: http://www.google.com/trends?q=cold+fusion This does not surprise me. If I were not increasing the number of papers at LENR-CANR, download traffic would probably decline there. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Energetics Technology website features 60 Minutes preview
Guys - Ah, yes. The HK Hare Krishna hypothesis. Atoms loosing their identity. That's as good an explanation as any I've heard! ;-) BTW - wasn't Frank Z or maybe Horace the first to suggest something akin to boson-like coherence, or did Chubb come in ahead of them with the quasi-BEC slant? Its been tossed around for a long time... Way before that - Robert Forward suggested really cold fusion - at cryogenic temps. We might as well give credit where credit is due... since 60 Minutes is getting hold of it - someone might actually start to give a damn. Jones
Re: [Vo]:It will be ironic if 60 Minutes has a major effect
Terry Blanton wrote: But the need was not as great as it is now. We have always said, on this list, that $5/gal oil would make a difference. IMO, it has. In that sense it is unfortunate that the price is back to $2. The Obama administration may be the best thing that has happened to energy policy in the last 40 years. We'll see. He may not follow through. Congress may derail him. He should tax gasoline to keep the price above $3 to $4 per gallon, but I doubt he has the guts or the support in Congress to do that. It is possible that Obama or someone in the administration will watch 60 Minutes and start asking questions, or even take action. It will not take much to help the researchers. A few million -- heck, a few hundred thousand -- would be manna from heaven. I wrote to the administration, and so did many other people, but the voice of CBS is probably 5 to 6 orders of magnitude louder than mine. That's the trouble with mass media in a high population nation. If this were Iceland I could probably get a message through to someone in government. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Energetics Technology website features 60 Minutes preview
OrionWorks wrote: Jed sez: What does Chubb's theory entail? It involves a bunch of deuterons with overlapping wave functions, which lose their identity and begin acting as one, sort of like For more information, see Scott Talbot Chubb's papers. Ah, yes. The HK Hare Krishna hypothesis. Atoms loosing their identity. That's as good an explanation as any I've heard! ;-) Sounds more like a Bose Einstein Condensate to me. --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html ---
Re: [Vo]:...CBS TV's 60 Minutes Turns Up the Heat
In reply to OrionWorks's message of Fri, 17 Apr 2009 08:39:22 -0500: Hi, [snip] Steve, or Jed Any speculation as to why 60 Minutes has decided, now, to do an article on this subject? Was there a specific tipping point, or have they been quietly watching this field for some time now. Cumulative effect? I would love to know whom they have interviewed. Guess we shall soon know. My guess, for what it's worth is that the recent announcement of evidence of fast neutrons has rocked the boat here and there, and tipped a few people who were doubtful over the line. The fact that this evidence is being produced in government labs doesn't harm the cause. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:It will be ironic if 60 Minutes has a major effect
Jed Rothwell wrote: Terry Blanton wrote: But the need was not as great as it is now. We have always said, on this list, that $5/gal oil would make a difference. IMO, it has. In that sense it is unfortunate that the price is back to $2. Don't worry, $5 / gallon gas will be back. --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html ---
Re: [Vo]:It will be ironic if 60 Minutes has a major effect
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Fri, 17 Apr 2009 16:37:43 -0400: Hi, [snip] That is how I feel about the whole history of cold fusion. So much talent wasted; so many years. So many energy problems could have been solved by now, and so many lives saved, if only scientists had done their job. [snip] That's exactly how I feel when I try to communicate to people that my invention is a hundred times better than CF. It's a quantum leap beyond current cold fusion experiments. Sort of like comparing a modern fission reactor to Fermi's first pile in Chicago. ...and no one will give me the time of day. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:Energetics Technology website features 60 Minutes preview - super cold
Not Robert Forward, Robert Carroll... Mark --- On Fri, 4/17/09, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net Subject: Re: [Vo]:Energetics Technology website features 60 Minutes preview To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Date: Friday, April 17, 2009, 2:34 PM Guys - Ah, yes. The HK Hare Krishna hypothesis. Atoms loosing their identity. That's as good an explanation as any I've heard! ;-) BTW - wasn't Frank Z or maybe Horace the first to suggest something akin to boson-like coherence, or did Chubb come in ahead of them with the quasi-BEC slant? Its been tossed around for a long time... Way before that - Robert Forward suggested really cold fusion - at cryogenic temps. We might as well give credit where credit is due... since 60 Minutes is getting hold of it - someone might actually start to give a damn. Jones
Re: [Vo]:...CBS TV's 60 Minutes Turns Up the Heat
oh yeah, almost forgot about that. At 01:21 PM 4/17/2009, you wrote: On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 4:27 PM, Steven Krivit stev...@newenergytimes.com wrote: Why now? Could it be because the Oilies are Out of Office? Oh! Terry
Re: [Vo]:It will be ironic if 60 Minutes has a major effect
thomas malloy wrote: Don't worry, $5 / gallon gas will be back. What makes you think so? Do you expect the economy will recover soon, and the price will rebound? I think the price reached $4 before the recession. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:It will be ironic if 60 Minutes has a major effect
Jed Rothwell wrote: thomas malloy wrote: Don't worry, $5 / gallon gas will be back. What makes you think so? Do you expect the economy will recover soon, and the price will rebound? The great inflation has just begun. However I think that the economy will rebound. --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html ---
Re: [Vo]:Energetics Technology website features 60 Minutes preview
- Original Message - From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net Date: Friday, April 17, 2009 5:34 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Energetics Technology website features 60 Minutes preview Guys - Ah, yes. The HK Hare Krishna hypothesis. Atoms loosing their identity. That's as good an explanation as any I've heard! ;-) I think socio-political prejudices are everywhere, even in the language of physics. As I see it, under certain conditions atoms refuse to behave like rugged individualists. However, a rugged individual physicist might equate such cooperative behaviour with a loss of identity, but I see it as the expression of a shared identity. Harry
Re: [Vo]:It will be ironic if 60 Minutes has a major effect
The decline in interest appears to have leveled off. If the graph represented a stock price, would it be a good time to buy in? ;-) Harry - Original Message - From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com Date: Friday, April 17, 2009 5:30 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:It will be ironic if 60 Minutes has a major effect Note that Google Trends shows a gradual decline in interest in the subject: http://www.google.com/trends?q=cold+fusion This does not surprise me. If I were not increasing the number of papers at LENR-CANR, download traffic would probably decline there. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:...CBS TV's 60 Minutes Turns Up the Heat
At 01:21 PM 4/17/2009, you wrote: On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 4:27 PM, Steven Krivit stev...@newenergytimes.com wrote: Why now? Could it be because the Oilies are Out of Office? Oh! Terry Terry...why CBS? why now? Something just fired in my neuro-net...Pure speculationI vaguely recall some incident with Dan Rather and Bob Park some years ago...I wonder if this is CBS' serving of crow Steve
Re: [Vo]:Red Skeletons
Related... Sinkholes below Lake Huron hold strange ecosystem: researchers http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2009/02/25/sinkholes.html Harry - Original Message - From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net Date: Thursday, April 16, 2009 7:42 pm Subject: [Vo]:Red Skeletons Thursday . being Free Association day.. Free association is a technique used by trick cyclist. make that psychoanalysts, and was first developed by Sigmund Freud, according to Wiki-the-wise. Remember . you cannot practice psycho-anal-ysis without being slightly anal .. ;-) In free association psychoanalysis, certain special patients, mildly deranged or not. like Freddy are invited to relate whatever comes into their meandering minds during the session; and most notably not to censor their thoughts. This technique is intended to help the patient learn more about what he or she thinks and feels in an atmosphere of non-judgmental curiosityand acceptance. Anyway, with that in mind, here is a most interesting bloody image, but with a slightly unprincipled ending. http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2009/04/ancient-frozen- ecosystem-produce s-blood-red-ice-flows.ars Freddy thinks that the authors of this study could have overlooked the unconventional principle known as the fractional ground state. Our principles are the springs of our actions. Our actions, the springs of our happiness or misery. Too much care, therefore, cannot be taken in forming our principles. - Red Skelton . which unconventional bloody principle - the fractional ground statecould be supplying at least some of the energy for metabolism in the bacteria. Most of the cellular life in the Red Falls are derived from Proteobacteria, the closest relatives of which metabolize sulfur and iron. If the hydrino is real, then it is very possible that some little- knownlifeform on Earth, or possibly in more extreme conditions elsewhere in the solar system - has evolved to exploit it - sez Jones the vortician The slightly unprincipled Antarctic researchers, like all good workerants, have echoed the mainstream neglect (can a lack of something be echoed?). Here is what they say : Unlike the sulfur-powered communitiespresent at undersea vents, there's little indication of a hydrogen sulfide metabolism present in the ice at Blood Falls. Instead, it appears that energy is obtained when sulfur is cycled through different oxidation states by reacting it with iron, producing the Fe(II) seen in the brine. The oxidized sulfur is then used to react with carbon compounds, powering the metabolism. All of that is pretty low-energy-the authors suggest that the doubling time for a bacterium in this environment would be roughly 300 days-and requires an external source of Fe(III) to power the system. The authors posit that the glacier itself might provide the source by extractingnew iron as it scrapes across the underlying rocks. End of quote. Of course few scientists give the hydrino theory much credence, and it is no surprise that it goes unmentioned once again - yet someone, perhaps a special patient or special agent with special patience, deranged or not, needs to mention that possibility; and since Mills is unavailable (onceagain), let's invite Freddy F.over to do the dishonors.. FF: Consider first, that the color seen in the image above is most likelyfrom hematite and other iron oxides. Iron(II,III) oxide (aka magnetite) is the chemical compound with formulaFe3O4. It contains both Fe2+ and Fe3+ ions and is sometimes formulated as FeO.Fe2O3. In some situations, it can acts like a solid electrolyte, since it always has these IP holes. Fe3+ as it turns, out is a strong Mills' hydrino catalyst with an energyhole of 54.8 eV. and in contrast to the official version of events in the Red Falls, in the Millsean viewpoint there is no need for an external source of Fe(III) to power the system nor anything else. Since that external source is the very weak link of their opposing viewpoint (no mass transport in ice?), and since the fractional ground state hypothesis doesn't require it - then the possibility is at least worth mentioning. It would be nice if Dr Mills could stage a convincing demo, of course. However, there are ways to test the hypothesis without him. Such as: Is there anomalous UV emission, even faint - from glaciers, even downshiftedinto the visible spectrum? Hmmm. http://www.flickr.com/photos/30684...@n05/3221228498/ Signed, Freddy F. Red-said: Well, I guess you might say that Freddie the Freeloader is a little bit of you, and a little bit of me, a little bit of all of us, you know. He's found out what love means. He knows the value of time. He knows that time is a glutton. We say we don't have time to do this or do that. There's plenty of time. The trick is to apply
