Re: [Vo]:...CBS TV's "60 Minutes" Turns Up the Heat

[Jed Rothwell]

Finally!

Thanks for keeping tabs on this, Steve.

Just remember folks: any publicity is good publicity, or as a British writer
put it, it's always good to see your name in the papers, other than in the
obituaries. (And cold fusion has been in the obits countless times.)

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:...CBS TV's "60 Minutes" Turns Up the Heat

[OrionWorks]

> Finally!
>
> Thanks for keeping tabs on this, Steve.
>
> Just remember folks: any publicity is good publicity, or as a British writer
> put it, it's always good to see your name in the papers, other than in the
> obituaries. (And cold fusion has been in the obits countless times.)
>
> - Jed

Steve, or Jed

Any speculation as to why 60 Minutes has decided, now, to do an
article on this subject? Was there a specific tipping point, or have
they been quietly watching this field for some time now. Cumulative
effect?

I would love to know whom they have interviewed. Guess we shall soon know.

My sense is that it will probably be a positive installment. 60 M
often seems to side with the underdog.

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:...CBS TV's "60 Minutes" Turns Up the Heat

[Jed Rothwell]

Here is the LENR-CANR news section announcement. Note that I included 
the link to the CBS website announcement.




CBS 60 Minutes reports on cold fusion

April 2009

The CBS newsmagazine 60 minutes will report on cold fusion on April 
19, 2009. See: 
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/1998/07/08/60minutes/main13502.shtml


"COLD FUSION IS HOT AGAIN - Presented in 1989 as a revolutionary new 
source of energy, cold fusion was quickly dismissed as junk science. 
But today, the buzz among scientists is that these experiments 
produce a real physical effect that could lead to monumental 
breakthroughs in energy production. Scott Pelley reports. Denise 
Schrier Cetta is the producer."


A detailed description of the broadcast is here: 
http://newenergytimes.com/v2/news/2009/60MinutesTurnsUptheHeat.shtml


CBS asked Prof. Robert Duncan to do an independent evaluation of the 
literature and to visit researchers and experiments. Duncan has not 
performed cold fusion experiments himself and had the impression that 
the original claims were mistaken. He now says "I am convinced that 
this excess-heat effect is real."


Most experts who have conducted independent evaluations of cold 
fusion have concluded the effect is real, notably Garwin, and 
Gerisher, who wrote: ""In spite of my earlier conclusion, -- and that 
of the majority of scientists, -- that the phenomena reported by 
Fleischmann and Pons in 1989 depended either on measurement errors or 
were of chemical origin, there is now undoubtedly overwhelming 
indications that nuclear processes take place in the metal alloys." 
See: 
http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/GerischerHiscoldfusi.pdf

Re: [Vo]:...CBS TV's "60 Minutes" Turns Up the Heat

[Jed Rothwell]

OrionWorks wrote:


Any speculation as to why 60 Minutes has decided, now, to do an
article on this subject?


They have been working on it since before ICCF14. I do not know what 
triggered their interest at this particular time but I know they have 
been in contact with many researchers such as Mike Melich over the 
years. People like Melich have done a lot for the field, cultivating 
interest in high places. The people at CBS do their homework, unlike 
many other reporters. It must have cost them a fortune to produce 
this short segment.




I would love to know whom they have interviewed. Guess we shall soon know.


Krivit's coverage mentions the person I think is most important: 
Robert Duncan. Not that I consider him the preeminent expert on 
anything like that but he is an outsider to the field which gives him 
credibility. Of course now that he says he believes it, the skeptics 
will say he is an insider who has lost all credibility.


Krivit mentioned that fellow Dwight Williams from the Discovery 
Channel broadcast:


http://science.discovery.com/videos/brink-news-evidence-of-nuclear-fusion.html

I wrote about him elsewhere (or was it here?):

"This show is generally supportive, but the interviewer talks to a 
DOE physicist Dr. Dwight Williams, who claims that cold fusion was 
never replicated. Clearly he did not bother to read the peer-reviewed 
literature. Scientists get their information from the mass media as 
often as anyone. They seldom bother to look at journal papers."


- Jed

[Vo]:Energetics Technology website features 60 Minutes preview

[Jed Rothwell]

The people at Energetics Technology put the video preview on their front page:

http://superwavefusion.com/

This is one of the few groups of researchers in cold fusion who have 
a knack for public relations. Plus they know how to do a solid 
demonstration as well as a solid experiment. The two are not quite 
the same. They did a great job impressing Prof. Duncan! I told Tanya 
congratulations.


I found something a little unexpected in the website. Click on the video here:

http://superwavefusion.com/the-process/

It is a bla, bla, bla conventional explanation of cold fusion. Then 
at 1:10 (timestamp from the end of the video) it says the deuterons 
"begin to move more collectively, like a school of fish" and it gets 
interesting.


I am not sure what this refers to. Perhaps the Chubb theory?

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Energetics Technology website features 60 Minutes preview

[OrionWorks]

>From Jed,

> The people at Energetics Technology put the video preview on their front
> page:
>
> http://superwavefusion.com/
>
> This is one of the few groups of researchers in cold fusion who have a knack
> for public relations. Plus they know how to do a solid demonstration as well
> as a solid experiment. The two are not quite the same. They did a great job
> impressing Prof. Duncan! I told Tanya congratulations.
>
> I found something a little unexpected in the website. Click on the video
> here:
>
> http://superwavefusion.com/the-process/
>
> It is a bla, bla, bla conventional explanation of cold fusion. Then at 1:10
> (timestamp from the end of the video) it says the deuterons "begin to move
> more collectively, like a school of fish" and it gets interesting.
>
> I am not sure what this refers to. Perhaps the Chubb theory?

I believe I've seen this video before, or at least a variation of it.

What does Chubb's theory entail?

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:Energetics Technology website features 60 Minutes preview

[Jed Rothwell]

OrionWorks wrote:


> It is a bla, bla, bla conventional explanation of cold fusion. Then at 1:10
> (timestamp from the end of the video) it says the deuterons "begin to move
> more collectively, like a school of fish" and it gets interesting.
>
> I am not sure what this refers to. Perhaps the Chubb theory?

I believe I've seen this video before, or at least a variation of it.

What does Chubb's theory entail?


Honestly, God only knows -- that level of physics is far over my head 
-- but it sounds a bit like a school of fish to me.


It involves a bunch of deuterons with overlapping wave functions, 
which lose their identity and begin acting as one, sort of like 
people joining the Hare Krishna cult (or religion if it is tax 
deductible). The heat is dispersed over millions of deuterons instead 
of originating at a single location which is why it does not produce 
a sharp 24 MeV jolt in a single particle.


For more information, see Scott & Talbot Chubb's papers.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:...CBS TV's "60 Minutes" Turns Up the Heat

[Steven Krivit]

Steve, or Jed

Any speculation as to why 60 Minutes has decided, now, to do an
article on this subject?


From the micro view :

CBS began "investigating" about one year ago. My guess is that Energetics 
or someone representing Energetics pitched the story to CBS. Why? Because 
about half a year before that, Dardik called me up on the phone and asked 
me to do drum up some media attention for him. I said, uh...I think you 
have a misunderstanding about my role here... Godfrey (his wife) then got 
on the phone with me and explained they were trying to get some mainstream 
media recognition to give a boost to Kimmel's confidence in their work. I 
told them that I think you need to find a PR guy and I turned down their 
request.


I have to say that CBS appears to have taken good care to pick someone to 
spotlight the subject for them - Duncan. He was recc. by the APS...he has 
an excellent fit of skills for the task. Duncan had a gap in his schedule 
before signing on at U.Missouri in which he was able to devote a few weeks 
to his investigation...that occurred in October.


From there I can only guess that they wanted to synch with the 20th 
anniv.  They had wanted to run the piece a week or two ago but other 
stories pre-empted it.


But from the bigger perspective Steven, yours, as is often, is an astute 
question. Aside from CBS giving a boost out Energetics 
(http://newenergytimes.com/v2/commerce/energeticstech/ET60MinutesPressRelease.pdf), 
I was not able to answer this question in my article although my editor 
asked me to. What is going on? Why now? Why the ACS interest? Why the TV 
interest a few weeks ago? My guess is that the answers to your questions 
below are all correct. My answer to my editor was "ask me in five years 
from now and we'll probably have sufficient hindsight."



Was there a specific tipping point, or have
they been quietly watching this field for some time now. Cumulative
effect?



I would love to know whom they have interviewed. Guess we shall soon know.


I think your question is, who did they get on camera, rather than "just 
spoke with."


At a minimum, "on camera":

McKubre
Fleischmann
Violante
Richard Garwin
Rob Duncan


My sense is that it will probably be a positive installment. 60 M
often seems to side with the underdog.


We''ll see what Garwin comes up with for his next excuse to 
avoid/evade/deflect/deny excess heat


But I think you already know their angle from their announcement 
today...posted in the heading just now of my story...

http://newenergytimes.com/v2/news/2009/60MinutesTurnsUptheHeat.shtml

Steve

[Vo]:It will be ironic if "60 Minutes" has a major effect

[Jed Rothwell]

If "60 Minutes" has a major effect on public opinion, and helps free 
up funding for the field, that will not surprise me. But it will be 
ironic. It will demonstrate that scientists and decision makers in 
government tend to be more influenced by the mass media than by 
scientific publications.


The tide does seem to be turning. Press coverage is more friendly 
than it used to be. More facts and fewer rumors are reported. But 
funding is still dreadfully restricted and I still fear that the 
researchers will not live long enough to make significant progress.


Based on previous press reports favorable toward cold fusion, such as 
a report of the Arata experiment last year, I predict this event it 
will increase Internet chatter and traffic to LENR-CANR for a few 
weeks, and then fade away. But the effect may linger long enough to 
jog a few decision-makers to allocate a few more dollars, or perhaps 
a few million more! And that is all we need.


We require an end to the beginning, if not the beginning of the end. 
We do not need Nature and Scientific American to wave a white flag 
and admit they were wrong. I predict that the present editors and 
writers at these journals will never do that, unless commercial 
products are rolled out, which I regard as highly unlikely under the 
present circumstances. But I could be wrong about them. I never 
imaged that Robert Park would give an inch. Of course he needs to 
give a mile, which he will never do.


The other day I told Mizuno that Maddox died, and I related the 
famous quote about "cold fusion will remain dead for a long time" 
which is surely an enigmatic thing to say. Did he mean that he hoped 
it would revive only after he was gone? Mizuno responded: "perhaps I 
should be angry at the man but honestly I pity him. Here was the most 
important and interesting discovery in his lifetime and he never even 
looked at it. What a wasted opportunity." That is how I feel about 
the whole history of cold fusion. So much talent wasted; so many 
years. So many energy problems could have been solved by now, and so 
many lives saved, if only scientists had done their job.


I do not blame the mass media for this sad history. I blame 
scientists and scientific administrators at places like the DOE and 
the APS. The ones who never looked at the experiments. They never did 
their jobs. Huizenga and the DoE review panels. Of course there is 
plenty of blame to go around. Even the cold fusion researchers share 
a small tiny fraction of the blame for this fiasco, but they are more 
sinned against than sinning.


- Jed

Re: [Vo]:...CBS TV's "60 Minutes" Turns Up the Heat

[Terry Blanton]

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 4:27 PM, Steven Krivit
 wrote:

> Why now?

Could it be because the Oilies are Out of Office?   Oh!

Terry

Re: [Vo]:Energetics Technology website features 60 Minutes preview

[OrionWorks]

Jed sez:

>> What does Chubb's theory entail?

> Honestly, God only knows -- that level of physics is far over
> my head -- but it sounds a bit like a school of fish to me.
>
> It involves a bunch of deuterons with overlapping wave functions,
> which lose their identity and begin acting as one, sort of like
> people joining the Hare Krishna cult (or religion if it is tax
> deductible). The heat is dispersed over millions of deuterons instead
> of originating at a single location which is why it does not produce
> a sharp 24 MeV jolt in a single particle.
>
> For more information, see Scott & Talbot Chubb's papers.
>
> - Jed

Ah, yes. The "HK" Hare Krishna hypothesis. Atoms loosing their
identity. That's as good an explanation as any I've heard! ;-)

Thanks, Jed.

Regards,
Steven would-you-like-to-make-a-donation Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:It will be ironic if "60 Minutes" has a major effect

[Terry Blanton]

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> So many energy problems could have been solved by
> now, and so many lives saved, if only scientists had done their job.

But the need was not as great as it is now.  We have always said, on
this list, that $5/gal oil would make a difference.  IMO, it has.

Terry

Re: [Vo]:Energetics Technology website features 60 Minutes preview

[Ron Wormus]

Actually I think this is what Frank Znidarsic  has been trying to get at with his "electromagnetic 
Bose condensate" convergence of the "motion constants" ideas but he has a very opaque method of 
explanation.

Ron

--On Friday, April 17, 2009 3:49 PM -0400 Jed Rothwell  
wrote:


OrionWorks wrote:


> It is a bla, bla, bla conventional explanation of cold fusion. Then at 1:10
> (timestamp from the end of the video) it says the deuterons "begin to move
> more collectively, like a school of fish" and it gets interesting.
>
> I am not sure what this refers to. Perhaps the Chubb theory?

I believe I've seen this video before, or at least a variation of it.

What does Chubb's theory entail?


Honestly, God only knows -- that level of physics is far over my head -- but it 
sounds a bit like
a school of fish to me.

It involves a bunch of deuterons with overlapping wave functions, which lose 
their identity and
begin acting as one, sort of like people joining the Hare Krishna cult (or 
religion if it is tax
deductible). The heat is dispersed over millions of deuterons instead of 
originating at a single
location which is why it does not produce a sharp 24 MeV jolt in a single 
particle.

For more information, see Scott & Talbot Chubb's papers.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:It will be ironic if "60 Minutes" has a major effect

[Jed Rothwell]

Note that Google Trends shows a gradual decline in interest in the subject:

http://www.google.com/trends?q=cold+fusion

This does not surprise me. If I were not increasing the number of 
papers at LENR-CANR, download traffic would probably decline there.


- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Energetics Technology website features 60 Minutes preview

[Jones Beene]

Guys - 


> Ah, yes. The "HK" Hare Krishna hypothesis. Atoms loosing their
> identity. That's as good an explanation as any I've heard! ;-)


BTW - wasn't Frank Z or maybe Horace the first to suggest something akin to 
boson-like coherence, or did Chubb come in ahead of them with the quasi-BEC 
slant? Its been tossed around for a long time...

Way before that - Robert Forward suggested "really cold" fusion - at cryogenic 
temps.

We might as well give credit where credit is due... since 60 Minutes is getting 
hold of it - someone might actually start to give a damn.

Jones

Re: [Vo]:It will be ironic if "60 Minutes" has a major effect

[Jed Rothwell]

Terry Blanton wrote:


But the need was not as great as it is now.  We have always said, on
this list, that $5/gal oil would make a difference.  IMO, it has.


In that sense it is unfortunate that the price is back to $2.

The Obama administration may be the best thing that has happened to 
energy policy in the last 40 years. We'll see. He may not follow 
through. Congress may derail him. He should tax gasoline to keep the 
price above $3 to $4 per gallon, but I doubt he has the guts or the 
support in Congress to do that.


It is possible that Obama or someone in the administration will watch 
"60 Minutes" and start asking questions, or even take action. It will 
not take much to help the researchers. A few million -- heck, a few 
hundred thousand -- would be manna from heaven. I wrote to the 
administration, and so did many other people, but the voice of CBS is 
probably 5 to 6 orders of magnitude louder than mine. That's the 
trouble with mass media in a high population nation. If this were 
Iceland I could probably get a message through to someone in government.


- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Energetics Technology website features 60 Minutes preview

[thomas malloy]

OrionWorks wrote:


Jed sez:
 


What does Chubb's theory entail?

It involves a bunch of deuterons with overlapping wave functions,
which lose their identity and begin acting as one, sort of like

For more information, see Scott & Talbot Chubb's papers.


 



Ah, yes. The "HK" Hare Krishna hypothesis. Atoms loosing their
identity. That's as good an explanation as any I've heard! ;-)
 


Sounds more like a Bose Einstein Condensate to me.


--- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- 
http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html ---

Re: [Vo]:...CBS TV's "60 Minutes" Turns Up the Heat

[mixent]

In reply to  OrionWorks's message of Fri, 17 Apr 2009 08:39:22 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]
>Steve, or Jed
>
>Any speculation as to why 60 Minutes has decided, now, to do an
>article on this subject? Was there a specific tipping point, or have
>they been quietly watching this field for some time now. Cumulative
>effect?
>
>I would love to know whom they have interviewed. Guess we shall soon know.

My guess, for what it's worth is that the recent announcement of evidence of
fast neutrons has rocked the boat here and there, and tipped a few people who
were doubtful over the line. The fact that this evidence is being produced in
government labs doesn't harm the cause.

[snip]
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html

Re: [Vo]:It will be ironic if "60 Minutes" has a major effect

[thomas malloy]

Jed Rothwell wrote:


Terry Blanton wrote:


But the need was not as great as it is now.  We have always said, on
this list, that $5/gal oil would make a difference.  IMO, it has.



In that sense it is unfortunate that the price is back to $2.


Don't worry, $5 / gallon gas will be back.


--- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- 
http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html ---

Re: [Vo]:It will be ironic if "60 Minutes" has a major effect

[mixent]

In reply to  Jed Rothwell's message of Fri, 17 Apr 2009 16:37:43 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>That is how I feel about 
>the whole history of cold fusion. So much talent wasted; so many 
>years. So many energy problems could have been solved by now, and so 
>many lives saved, if only scientists had done their job.
[snip]
That's exactly how I feel when I try to communicate to people that my invention
is a hundred times better than CF. It's a quantum leap beyond current cold
fusion experiments. Sort of like comparing a modern fission reactor to Fermi's
first pile in Chicago.
...and no one will give me the time of day.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html

Re: [Vo]:Energetics Technology website features 60 Minutes preview - super cold

[Mark Goldes]

Not Robert Forward, Robert Carroll...

Mark

--- On Fri, 4/17/09, Jones Beene  wrote:
From: Jones Beene 
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Energetics Technology website features 60 Minutes preview
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Date: Friday, April 17, 2009, 2:34 PM

Guys - 


> Ah, yes. The "HK" Hare Krishna hypothesis. Atoms loosing their
> identity. That's as good an explanation as any I've heard! ;-)


BTW - wasn't Frank Z or maybe Horace the first to suggest something akin to
boson-like coherence, or did Chubb come in ahead of them with the quasi-BEC
slant? Its been tossed around for a long time...

Way before that - Robert Forward suggested "really cold" fusion - at
cryogenic temps.

We might as well give credit where credit is due... since 60 Minutes is getting
hold of it - someone might actually start to give a damn.

Jones

Re: [Vo]:...CBS TV's "60 Minutes" Turns Up the Heat

[Steven Krivit]

oh yeah, almost forgot about that.

At 01:21 PM 4/17/2009, you wrote:

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 4:27 PM, Steven Krivit
 wrote:

> Why now?

Could it be because the Oilies are Out of Office?   Oh!

Terry

Re: [Vo]:It will be ironic if "60 Minutes" has a major effect

[Jed Rothwell]

thomas malloy wrote:


> Don't worry, $5 / gallon gas will be back.


What makes you think so? Do you expect the economy will recover soon, and
the price will rebound?

I think the price reached $4 before the recession.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:It will be ironic if "60 Minutes" has a major effect

[thomas malloy]

Jed Rothwell wrote:


thomas malloy wrote:
 


Don't worry, $5 / gallon gas will be back.


What makes you think so? Do you expect the economy will recover soon, 
and the price will rebound?


The great inflation has just begun. However I think that the economy 
will rebound.




--- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- 
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Re: [Vo]:Energetics Technology website features 60 Minutes preview

[Harry Veeder]

- Original Message -
From: Jones Beene 
Date: Friday, April 17, 2009 5:34 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Energetics Technology website features 60 Minutes preview

> 
> Guys - 
> 
> 
> > Ah, yes. The "HK" Hare Krishna hypothesis. Atoms loosing their
> > identity. That's as good an explanation as any I've heard! ;-)

I think socio-political prejudices are everywhere, even in the language
of physics.
As I see it, under certain conditions atoms refuse to behave like rugged
individualists. However, a rugged individual physicist might equate such
cooperative
behaviour with a "loss of identity", but I see it as the expression of a
shared identity.

Harry

Re: [Vo]:OT:Whewell

[Harry Veeder]

He really likened it to the motion of the Sun?
harry

- Original Message -
From: Michel Jullian 
Date: Thursday, April 16, 2009 6:42 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:OT:Whewell

> He also coined, on Faraday's request, the words anode (from Greek
> anodos = way up) and cathode (way down), where what goes up or down is
> not current nor electrons nor ions, but... the Sun, unobviously!
> 
> Michel
> 
> /4/16, Harry Veeder :
> > Biography of the man who coined the words "scientist" and 
> "physicist":>
> > http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Whewell.html
> >
> > Harry
> >
> >
> 
> 

Re: [Vo]:It will be ironic if "60 Minutes" has a major effect

[Harry Veeder]

The decline in interest appears to have leveled off.
If the graph represented a stock price, would it be a good time to buy
in? ;-)

Harry

 
- Original Message -
From: Jed Rothwell 
Date: Friday, April 17, 2009 5:30 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:It will be ironic if "60 Minutes" has a major effect

> Note that Google Trends shows a gradual decline in interest in the 
> subject:
> http://www.google.com/trends?q=cold+fusion
> 
> This does not surprise me. If I were not increasing the number of 
> papers at LENR-CANR, download traffic would probably decline there.
> 
> - Jed
> 
> 

Re: [Vo]:...CBS TV's "60 Minutes" Turns Up the Heat

[Steven Krivit]

At 01:21 PM 4/17/2009, you wrote:

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 4:27 PM, Steven Krivit
 wrote:

> Why now?

Could it be because the Oilies are Out of Office?   Oh!

Terry



Terry...why CBS? why now?

Something just fired in my neuro-net...Pure speculationI vaguely recall 
some incident with Dan Rather and Bob Park some years ago...I wonder if 
this is CBS' serving of crow


Steve 

Re: [Vo]:Red Skeletons

[Harry Veeder]

Related...

Sinkholes below Lake Huron hold strange ecosystem: researchers
http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2009/02/25/sinkholes.html

Harry

- Original Message - 
From: Jones Beene  
Date: Thursday, April 16, 2009 7:42 pm 
Subject: [Vo]:Red Skeletons 

> Thursday . being "Free Association" day.. 
> 
> Free association is a technique used by trick cyclist. make that 
> psychoanalysts, and was first developed by Sigmund Freud, 
> according to 
> Wiki-the-wise. 
> 
> Remember . you cannot practice psycho-anal-ysis without being 
> slightly anal 
> .. ;-) 
> 
> In free association psychoanalysis, certain "special patients", 
mildly 
> deranged or not. like Freddy are invited to relate whatever comes 
> into their 
> meandering minds during the session; and most notably not to 
> censor their 
> thoughts. This technique is intended to help the patient learn 
> more about 
> what he or she thinks and feels in an atmosphere of non-judgmental 
> curiosityand acceptance. 
> 
> Anyway, with that in mind, here is a most interesting bloody 
> image, but with 
> a slightly "unprincipled" ending. 
> 
> http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2009/04/ancient-frozen- 
> ecosystem-produce 
> s-blood-red-ice-flows.ars 
> Freddy thinks that the authors of this study could have overlooked 
the 
> unconventional principle known as the "fractional ground state." 
> "Our principles are the springs of our actions. Our actions, the 
> springs of 
> our happiness or misery. Too much care, therefore, cannot be taken 
in 
> forming our principles." - Red Skelton 
> . which unconventional bloody principle - the "fractional ground 
> state"could be supplying at least some of the energy for 
> metabolism in the 
> bacteria. Most of the cellular life in the Red Falls are derived 
from 
> Proteobacteria, the closest relatives of which metabolize sulfur 
> and iron. 
> "If the hydrino is real, then it is very possible that some little- 
> knownlifeform on Earth, or possibly in more extreme conditions 
> elsewhere in the 
> solar system - has evolved to exploit it" - sez Jones the vortician 
> The slightly "unprincipled" Antarctic researchers, like all good 
> workerants, have echoed the mainstream neglect (can a lack of 
> something be 
> echoed?). Here is what they say : "Unlike the sulfur-powered 
> communitiespresent at undersea vents, there's little indication of 
> a hydrogen sulfide 
> metabolism present in the ice at Blood Falls. Instead, it appears 
that 
> energy is obtained when sulfur is cycled through different 
> oxidation states 
> by reacting it with iron, producing the Fe(II) seen in the brine. 
The 
> oxidized sulfur is then used to react with carbon compounds, 
> powering the 
> metabolism. All of that is pretty low-energy-the authors suggest 
> that the 
> doubling time for a bacterium in this environment would be roughly 
300 
> days-and requires an external source of Fe(III) to power the 
> system. The 
> authors posit that the glacier itself might provide the source by 
> extractingnew iron as it scrapes across the underlying rocks." End 
> of quote. 
> Of course few scientists give the hydrino theory much credence, 
> and it is no 
> surprise that it goes unmentioned once again - yet someone, 
> perhaps a 
> "special patient" or special agent with special patience, deranged 
> or not, 
> needs to mention that possibility; and since Mills is unavailable 
> (onceagain), let's invite Freddy F.over to do the dishonors.. 
> FF: Consider first, that the color seen in the image above is most 
> likelyfrom hematite and other iron oxides. 
> Iron(II,III) oxide (aka magnetite) is the chemical compound with 
> formulaFe3O4. It contains both Fe2+ and Fe3+ ions and is sometimes 
> formulated as 
> FeO.Fe2O3. In some situations, it can acts like a solid 
> electrolyte, since 
> it always has these IP holes. 
> Fe3+ as it turns, out is a strong Mills' hydrino catalyst with an 
> energyhole of 54.8 eV. and in contrast to the official version of 
> events in the 
> Red Falls, in the Millsean viewpoint there is no need "for an 
external 
> source of Fe(III) to power the system" nor anything else. Since that 
> "external source" is the very weak link of their opposing 
> viewpoint (no mass 
> transport in ice?), and since the fractional ground state 
> hypothesis doesn't 
> require it - then the possibility is at least worth mentioning. 
> It would be nice if Dr Mills could stage a convincing demo, of 
> course. 
> However, there are ways to test the hypothesis without him. Such 
> as: Is 
> there anomalous UV emission, even faint - from glaciers, even 
> downshiftedinto the visible spectrum? Hmmm. 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/30684...@n05/3221228498/ 
> Signed, Freddy F. 
> Red-said: Well, I guess you might say that Freddie the Freeloader 
> is a 
> little bit of you, and a little bit of me, a little bit of all of 
> us, you 
> know. 
> He's found out what love means. He knows the value of time. He 
> knows that 
> time is a

RE: [Vo]:It will be ironic if "60 Minutes" has a major effect

[Mark Iverson]

Jed wrote:
"So many energy problems could have been solved by now, and so many lives 
saved, if only scientists
had done their job."

It sure seems that when we most needed science, it failed us, utterly.  Well, 
not the 'institution'
of science, but the scientists turned politicians.  And what do we expect when 
humans are
administering science?  Where is Lt.Cmdr. Data when you need him?  :-)  
Picard/Data in 2012!

-Mark


-Original Message-
From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 1:38 PM
To: vortex-L@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:It will be ironic if "60 Minutes" has a major effect

If "60 Minutes" has a major effect on public opinion, and helps free up funding 
for the field, that
will not surprise me. But it will be ironic. It will demonstrate that 
scientists and decision makers
in government tend to be more influenced by the mass media than by scientific 
publications.

The tide does seem to be turning. Press coverage is more friendly than it used 
to be. More facts and
fewer rumors are reported. But funding is still dreadfully restricted and I 
still fear that the
researchers will not live long enough to make significant progress.

Based on previous press reports favorable toward cold fusion, such as a report 
of the Arata
experiment last year, I predict this event it will increase Internet chatter 
and traffic to
LENR-CANR for a few weeks, and then fade away. But the effect may linger long 
enough to jog a few
decision-makers to allocate a few more dollars, or perhaps a few million more! 
And that is all we
need.

We require an end to the beginning, if not the beginning of the end. 
We do not need Nature and Scientific American to wave a white flag and admit 
they were wrong. I
predict that the present editors and writers at these journals will never do 
that, unless commercial
products are rolled out, which I regard as highly unlikely under the present 
circumstances. But I
could be wrong about them. I never imaged that Robert Park would give an inch. 
Of course he needs to
give a mile, which he will never do.

The other day I told Mizuno that Maddox died, and I related the famous quote 
about "cold fusion will
remain dead for a long time" 
which is surely an enigmatic thing to say. Did he mean that he hoped it would 
revive only after he
was gone? Mizuno responded: "perhaps I should be angry at the man but honestly 
I pity him. Here was
the most important and interesting discovery in his lifetime and he never even 
looked at it. What a
wasted opportunity." That is how I feel about the whole history of cold fusion. 
So much talent
wasted; so many years. So many energy problems could have been solved by now, 
and so many lives
saved, if only scientists had done their job.

I do not blame the mass media for this sad history. I blame scientists and 
scientific administrators
at places like the DOE and the APS. The ones who never looked at the 
experiments. They never did
their jobs. Huizenga and the DoE review panels. Of course there is plenty of 
blame to go around.
Even the cold fusion researchers share a small tiny fraction of the blame for 
this fiasco, but they
are more sinned against than sinning.

- Jed


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Re: [Vo]:OT:Whewell

[Michel Jullian]

If by "it" you mean the motion of the current, the answer is yes.
Think of the cell/device as the sky, the anode is the place where the
current enters it (where the sun rises into it), and the cathode where
it departs (goes down, cata, as in catacombs). See the wikipedia
articles for the full story.

Michel


2009/4/18, Harry Veeder :
>
> He really likened it to the motion of the Sun?
> harry
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Michel Jullian 
> Date: Thursday, April 16, 2009 6:42 pm
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:OT:Whewell
>
>> He also coined, on Faraday's request, the words anode (from Greek
>> anodos = way up) and cathode (way down), where what goes up or down is
>> not current nor electrons nor ions, but... the Sun, unobviously!
>>
>> Michel
>>
>> /4/16, Harry Veeder :
>> > Biography of the man who coined the words "scientist" and
>> "physicist":>
>> > http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Whewell.html
>> >
>> > Harry
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>