Re: [Vo]:Explainig Rossi.

[Peter Gluck]

Can you evaluate the costs of enrichment?

On Sat, May 7, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> Explaining Rossi.
>
>
>
> Rossi said: “We think that all the Ni participates to the reactions, even
> if some isotopes should be more efficient.” “Only Ni 62 and Ni64 react.”
>
>
>
> Rossi enriches his nickel in Ni62 and Ni64. Why? Through experimentation,
> Rossi found these isotopes performed best. But what is the theory behind
> this result?
>
>
>
> Nickel-62 is an isotope of nickel having 28 protons and 34 neutrons. It is
> a stable isotope, with the highest binding energy per nucleon of any known
> nuclide (8.7945 MeV). The high binding energy of nickel isotopes in general
> makes nickel an "end product" of many nuclear reactions (including neutron
> capture reactions) throughout the universe and accounts for the high
> relative abundance of nickel and nickel-60 (the second-most, with the other
> stable isotopes (nickel-61, nickel-62, and nickel-64) being quite rare).
>
>
>
> Nickel is the least likely element to participate in a fusion reaction.
>
>
>
> If atomic holes are the place where the Rossi reaction occurs, Rossi wants
> a very strong and stable support structure that can provide a three
> dimensional quantum box that can produce the reaction.
>
>
>
> Under the assumption that only hydrogen reacts in the quantum box and that
> many hydrogen atoms are fused in the Rossi reaction; the packing of all
> those hydrogen atoms into the lattice defects of nickel is a stressful
> process. If this nickel built Heisenberg box were to fail or fail apart
> during the packing of hydrogen, then the reaction will fail.
>
>
>
> Nickel is the most stable element because its binding energy is maximized
> among the elements. The nickel isotopes that are the most stable are Ni62
> and Ni64. Rossi enriches his nickel in these most stable and stout isotopes
> because they can best support the atomic defects he uses to produce atomic
> events without blowing the lattice defects apart during the stresses of the
> atomic reactions and were nickel garbage would poison the pure hydrogen  
> reaction.
>
>
>
>
> Elements on either side of nickel will perform best because of their very
> high binding energies.
>
>
>



-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

[Vo]:Explainig Rossi.

[Axil Axil]

Explaining Rossi.



Rossi said: “We think that all the Ni participates to the reactions, even if
some isotopes should be more efficient.” “Only Ni 62 and Ni64 react.”



Rossi enriches his nickel in Ni62 and Ni64. Why? Through experimentation,
Rossi found these isotopes performed best. But what is the theory behind
this result?



Nickel-62 is an isotope of nickel having 28 protons and 34 neutrons. It is a
stable isotope, with the highest binding energy per nucleon of any known
nuclide (8.7945 MeV). The high binding energy of nickel isotopes in general
makes nickel an "end product" of many nuclear reactions (including neutron
capture reactions) throughout the universe and accounts for the high
relative abundance of nickel and nickel-60 (the second-most, with the other
stable isotopes (nickel-61, nickel-62, and nickel-64) being quite rare).



Nickel is the least likely element to participate in a fusion reaction.



If atomic holes are the place where the Rossi reaction occurs, Rossi wants a
very strong and stable support structure that can provide a three
dimensional quantum box that can produce the reaction.



Under the assumption that only hydrogen reacts in the quantum box and that
many hydrogen atoms are fused in the Rossi reaction; the packing of all
those hydrogen atoms into the lattice defects of nickel is a stressful
process. If this nickel built Heisenberg box were to fail or fail apart
during the packing of hydrogen, then the reaction will fail.



Nickel is the most stable element because its binding energy is maximized
among the elements. The nickel isotopes that are the most stable are Ni62
and Ni64. Rossi enriches his nickel in these most stable and stout isotopes
because they can best support the atomic defects he uses to produce atomic
events without blowing the lattice defects apart during the stresses of the
atomic reactions and were nickel garbage would poison the pure
hydrogen  reaction.




Elements on either side of nickel will perform best because of their very
high binding energies.

RE: [Vo]:A weird & wired analogy

[Jones Beene]

"Particle accelerator" or " Bipolar junction transistor" - is there an
emergent meme in cyber space?


> This TGIF quip may appeal only to a few EEs, hams, and assorted wire-heads
as half-serious-humor, but think about Rossi in the context of being one
gigantically large semiconductor transistor in which the current which
passed creates more heat on emitter than it should :-)

Have a great weekend...

<>

[Vo]:Cryo-milling w/ liq N2

[Wm. Scott Smith]

One might get really good results chilling the nickel down with liq N2. Brittle 
things grind better.  They even grind tires and plastic this way.

Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 13:50:06 -0400
From: francis.x.roa...@lmco.com
Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:cheap ball mill / glove box alternative to Bell 
jar?
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com



Jones,Ok that may apply to  the major surface area and a vacuum may be 
necessary to degass  but Stremmenos’ point about absorbing an enormous quantity 
of hydrogen after heat + vacuum purifying his powder suggests that the nano 
pores and defects of his micro particles as delivered remain oxidized. Perhaps 
we are describing “clean” at 2 different scales and again tripping over the 
difference between normal surface area / volume between particles and the more 
extreme Casimir geometry where I posit the relativistic volume is magnitudes 
larger than the spatial volume appears from our perspective …… MAYBE Rossi’s 
secret ingredient is a chemical that enhances the Casimir effect by either 
cleaning or backfilling the existing cavities such that more hydrogen is 
translated to extreme fractional values up to 1/137.RegardsFran   [snip] 
Anyhow, this is very important, because I observed it and then told Sergio. If 
we degassed (nickel powder, at this point) at an extremely low pressure, i.e.. 
10-6, which is one-millionth of atmospheric pressure, for one week at a 
temperature of 500° [Celsius], so that all the oxides on the surface of the 
micro-particles of nickel were eliminated (this means all of the oxides that 
have formed, because we are surrounded by an oxygen atmosphere) ... well, upon 
charging it, it sucked up, how can I put it, an enormous quantity of hydrogen 
(I was using hydrogen). And the temperature, which had been 500°, began to rise 
considerably, and got higher and higher, over the 1000° mark. I got scared, and 
shut everything down [laughs], because, I said to myself, “This is going to 
blow up”! The temperature went up very fast. Probably there was chemical 
reaction too ... specifically, hydrides were being formed, which are... I 
didn’t have the patience to wait until it reached a steady level, but the 
previous experiments which … as far as exothermic emission from nickel is 
concerned … this excess [of heat] went on even for six months, so it did … but 
it wasn’t absorbing all that much hydrogen ... so I understood that the trick 
was purifying the nickel as much as possible... Talking out all the gases it 
absorbs … plus the oxides formed on the surface of the nickel 
micro-particles.[/snip]  From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] 
Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 11:33 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:cheap ball mill / glove box alternative to Bell 
jar? You do not need to flush the ball mill with helium. Nickel resists 
oxidation at ambient very well, and any surface oxide remaining will be reduced 
on the first contact with hydrogen.  If this is un-activated Raney-type nickel 
you are milling, of course you know to activate after ball milling, NOT before. 
  From: Roarty, Francis X  Would ball milling nickel in a glove box of helium 
produce a similar oxygen free powder without the need for a bell jar to out 
gas? 

[Vo]:Black Light Plasma + Terry's triode

[francis]

As I understand it the temp Rossi claims to have measured are beyond the
melting point of Ni and just barely under NiO which as Jones pointed out
can't persist in a hydrogen atmosphere, Axil's spray coat of the reactors
inner wall sounds similar to the sputtering applied to the inside of the
MAHG tube used by Moller and Naudin and as such seems like a good candidate
but I am hesitant to refer to this as an "accelerator in a can" since we
obviously don't have the power to perform straight forward fusion. still
some linear acceleration might enhance the penetration into Casimir geometry
where equivalent acceleration becomes inversely proportional to the cube of
the plate confinement. In axils model it remains unclear if the heat is
generated in the lattice or the h1-h2 plasma boiling  up toward the heating
element suspended parallel to the surface of the inner wall. I don't have an
issue with Axil's solution because it does address the melt down issue by
immediate extraction and I seem to recall someone mentioning that the
heating element could also be the temperature sensor so the heat could
easily be higher away from the heat sink immersed in a soup of h1 and h2.
Another solution that comes to mind would be a Black Light plasma lamp on
steroids -instead of a sun burned observer the intensity of pressurized
hydrogen inside a closed reactor with a PWM tungsten or chromium heating
element amplified by Terry's triode concept could provide a plasma form of
star in a jar where the powder is releasing copious amounts of fractional
hydrogen ions that are rising up toward the heater element - In this model
the powder remains cooler and the heat is generated Mill's style where
hydrogen in the plasma can self catalyze and you can choose between my 2
body or Mills 3 body reaction to extract ZPE. I don't think the fractional
values would get as high in a self catalyzing plasma  but might be able to
compensate where higher spatial velocity results in a more rapid change in
energy density. The point is this method would also share the heat
distribution nicely across the inner surface of the reactor wall and is
similar to what we know about the powder and the reactor from the Rowan
confirmations. 

Fran

Re: [Vo]:FAKE or REAL -- April test -- FINAL

[Alan J Fletcher]

http://lenr.qumbu.com/fake_rossi_ecat_frames_v333.php
http://lenr.qumbu.com/fake_rossi_ecat_v333.pdf

The main surprise of redoing the calculations is that the April test 
can't even rule out a Water Storage fake.


I added a summary table to the conclusion section.

Re: [Vo]: refueling process and reserve units...

[Man on Bridges]

Hi,

On 6-5-2011 6:02, mix...@bigpond.com wrote:

Though I don't know of any off hand, I imagine that there are "garden hose" type
connections available for this sort of thing.


I think you are referring to so-called QD (Quick Disconnect) connectors, 
which are also used for glove-boxes etc. in the ISS.


Kind regards,

MoB

RE: [Vo]:The NiO can be made to stick to the walls of a stainless steel surface (SSS)

[Hoyt A. Stearns Jr.]

-Original Message-
From: Akira Shirakawa [mailto:shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 3:16 PM

Do you think that standard automotive catalytic converter manufacturing
processes could apply in the case of the E-Cat? Somehow, I...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalytic_converter

* * *

Straight from Wikipedia :-) :

Warm-up period
Most of the pollution put out by a car occurs during the first five minutes
before the catalytic converter has warmed up sufficiently.[13]
In 1999, BMW introduced the Electric Catalytic Convert, or "E-CAT", in their
flagship E38 750iL sedan. Coils inside the catalytic converter assemblies
are heated electrically just after engine start, bringing the catalyst up to
operating temperature much faster than traditional catalytic converters can,
providing cleaner cold starts and low emission vehicle (LEV)
compliance.[citation needed]

[Vo]:A weird & wired analogy

[Jones Beene]

This TGIF quip may appeal only to a few EEs, hams, and assorted wire-heads
as half-serious-humor, but think about Rossi in the context of being one
gigantically large semiconductor transistor in which the current which
passed creates more heat on emitter than it should :-)

Have a great weekend...

<>

RE: [Vo]: particle accelerator in a can... Was: cheap ball mill / glove box alternative to Bell jar?

[Mark Iverson]

Do we have a shot of the oscilloscope screen during pre-ignition phase and 
steady-state phase?
I remember stopping the video on the scope screen, and trying to read the 
timebase, but no go...

-Mark


-Original Message-
From: Mark Iverson [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net] 
Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 3:07 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]: particle accelerator in a can... Was: cheap ball mill / glove 
box alternative to Bell
jar?

Terry/Steven,
Excellent out of the box thinking!

So we've got a little particle accelerator inside this thing as well! We not 
going to let the H
slowly migrate its way in, we're going to smash it in!  I.e., we're too 
impatient to just let
electrochemistry take its course or wait for adsorption to occur, we'll do it 
exactly when we want,
how often we want and how hard we want.  That way, things happen in the time 
that we need them to
happen.

And if there is a dielectric layer then its not passing DC, which means we're 
dealing with AC,
which, if I remember correctly, there has been a shot of an oscilloscope screen 
with a
negative-going pulse; was it ever explained what that scope was connected to?  
Certainly not the
pump... So the only other possibility was the heater wire?  Is it the 
repetition rate that throttles
the reaction rate?

Pulse the particle accelerator, slam a number of H's into the Ni, back off 
pulse, let reaction occur
which generates a pulse of heat, which needs a little time to disperse, then 
pulse the accelerator
again... Voila!

Tell Garwin we're almost ready to make him some tea! ;-)

In the horse race as to what happens first, October plant going online or 
someone else figuring this
out, I'd have to say that the Vortexian thoroughbred has pulled into the 
lead... Good work guys!
 
-Mark

Re: [Vo]:The NiO can be made to stick to the walls of a stainless steel surface (SSS)

[Akira Shirakawa]

On 2011-05-06 23:55, Axil Axil wrote:

[...] This is standard powder coating technology. The SSS will be very soft
and the NiO powder will sink into the SSS. The NiO powder will remain
strong and intact on the hot surface and will not melt until the
temperature of 2000C is reached


Do you think that standard automotive catalytic converter manufacturing 
processes could apply in the case of the E-Cat? Somehow, I think the 
reactor part could be very similar to one of them, with a stainless 
steel foil honeycomb coated with the catalyst, to maximize surface area. 
I'm not sure where the internal heater could be in this case, though.


By the way, have a read at the description in the Wikipedia page, they 
really share many similarities:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalytic_converter

* * *

The catalytic converter consists of several components:

The core, or substrate. The core is often a ceramic honeycomb in 
modern catalytic converters, but stainless steel foil honeycombs are 
also used. The honeycomb surface increases the amount of surface area 
available to support the catalyst, and therefore is often called a 
"catalyst support". The ceramic substrate was invented by Rodney Bagley, 
Irwin Lachman and Ronald Lewis at Corning Glass, for which they were 
inducted into the National Inventors Hall of Fame in 2002.
The washcoat. A washcoat is used to make converters more efficient, 
often as a mixture of silica and alumina. The washcoat, when added to 
the core, forms a rough, irregular surface, which has a far-greater 
surface area than the flat-core surfaces do, which then gives the 
converter core a larger surface area, and therefore more places for 
active precious-metal sites. The catalyst is added to the washcoat (in 
suspension) before being applied to the core.
The catalyst itself is most often a precious metal. Platinum is the 
most-active catalyst and is widely used. It is not suitable for all 
applications, however, because of unwanted additional reactions and/or 
cost. Palladium and rhodium are two other precious metals used. Platinum 
and rhodium are used as a reduction catalyst, while platinum and 
palladium are used as an oxidation catalyst. Cerium, iron, manganese and 
nickel are also used, although each has its own limitations. Nickel is 
not legal for use in the European Union (because of its reaction with 
carbon monoxide). Copper can be used everywhere except North America, 
where its use is illegal because of the formation of dioxin.


* * *

Cheers,
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:cheap ball mill / glove box alternative to Bell jar?

[francis]

 

Yes -which dovetails nicely with Terry's triode !

Fran

 

 

 

OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson
Fri, 06 May 2011 13:24:15 -0700

Makes me wunder if applying heat is really all that necessary. ...Or

perhaps raw external heat is only necessary at first, as Rossi seems

to indicate.

 

The speculated implication is that it's actually the amount of

electron packing going on that is a crucial element in sustaining the

reaction.

 

Perhaps once the "chain reaction" is initiated the external heating

element essentially becomes irrelevant. (This would make sense to me.

I never understood WHY Rossi always claimed it's necessary to keep the

external heating element always on - for allegedly "safety reasons."

That never made any sense to me. Makes me think the heating element is

actually there for another reason.) Once the reaction is initiated,

perhaps it then becomes a matter of controlling the amount of electron

packing going on which, in turn, manipulates the strength of the

reaction.

 

Regards

Steven Vincent Johnson

www.OrionWorks.com

www.zazzle.com/orionworks

 

 

[Vo]: particle accelerator in a can... Was: cheap ball mill / glove box alternative to Bell jar?

[Mark Iverson]

Terry/Steven,
Excellent out of the box thinking!

So we've got a little particle accelerator inside this thing as well! We not 
going to let the H
slowly migrate its way in, we're going to smash it in!  I.e., we're too 
impatient to just let
electrochemistry take its course or wait for adsorption to occur, we'll do it 
exactly when we want,
how often we want and how hard we want.  That way, things happen in the time 
that we need them to
happen.

And if there is a dielectric layer then its not passing DC, which means we're 
dealing with AC,
which, if I remember correctly, there has been a shot of an oscilloscope screen 
with a
negative-going pulse; was it ever explained what that scope was connected to?  
Certainly not the
pump... So the only other possibility was the heater wire?  Is it the 
repetition rate that throttles
the reaction rate?

Pulse the particle accelerator, slam a number of H's into the Ni, back off 
pulse, let reaction occur
which generates a pulse of heat, which needs a little time to disperse, then 
pulse the accelerator
again... Voila!

Tell Garwin we're almost ready to make him some tea! ;-)

In the horse race as to what happens first, October plant going online or 
someone else figuring this
out, I'd have to say that the Vortexian thoroughbred has pulled into the 
lead... Good work guys!
 
-Mark

[Vo]:The NiO can be made to stick to the walls of a stainless steel surface (SSS)

[Axil Axil]

The NiO can be made to stick to the walls of a stainless steel surface (SSS)
as follows:



Heat this coated SSS to just under melting temperature (say about 1375C).



Spray 100 grams of the NiO ceramic nano-powder onto the SSS using an
electrostatic spray gun which accelerates the NiO particle to high speed
using an ionizing voltage.


This is standard powder coating technology. The SSS will be very soft and
the NiO powder will sink into the SSS. The NiO powder will remain strong and
intact on the hot surface and will not melt until the temperature of 2000C
is reached

Re: [Vo]:Terry's triode

[Axil Axil]

My mental model of the Rossi process is as follows:



The H- ions are formed close to the surface of the internal heaters filament
when an electron is emitted from the filament and ionizes and splits
hydrogen (H2) into H-.



The H- has a negative charge. It is accelerated by a wire grid charged to
high voltage to a substantial fraction of the speed of light.



The almost all H- ions goes through the wire grid in the direction of the
stainless steel wall were the surface is covered with pure nickel containing
many atomic defects.



The H- ions strike this imperfect nickel surface with great force and the H-
is driven into the atomic defects at high speed.



When the atomic defect is packed with many hydrogen ions a tipping point is
reached and a nuclear fusion reaction produces heat and a variety transmuted
elements.


On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 5:15 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

>  I have no problem with that characterization.
>
>
>
> However, it is the dimension of the holes that matters most, apparently.
> This can explain why nickel-palladium alloy works so much better than
> palladium in Arata experiments. There is a slight difference in the
> inter-atomic spacing, which may not seem like much to the casual observer –
> but is everything in end-results.
>
>
>
> Rossi apparently does not use palladium at all - leaving open the
> possibility whatever it is that provides the better results gives better
> geometry with nickel. Peter believes that it is not an element per se, but
> is more mechanical than an ingredient. Maybe so, but I would also be looking
> for an alloy which gives similar ‘holes’ to Ni-Pd (85/15).
>
>
>
> Jones
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Axil Axil
>
>
>
> Rossi says that many elements beside nickel will work. The patent says that
> Copper will work also. The reason: it is the atomic holes that produce the
> reaction in a transition metal. It is these holes that are the active
> nuclear sites. The support is the oxide of that metal whatever it is. This
> oxide is a dielectric and provides support for the pure metal surface cover.
> The hydrogen generates the atomic holes by erosion at startup.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:FAKE or REAL -- April test -- Updated

[Alan J Fletcher]

The new version is at 

http://lenr.qumbu.com/fake_rossi_ecat_frames_v332.php

http://lenr.qumbu.com/fake_rossi_ecat_v332.pdf  -- page feeds
haven't been updated, so it's a bit messy
Main changes:  I've restructured it into three classes of fakes
a) Fixed-Energy  b) Unlimited Energy and c) Alternative
explanations
I'm still using the March values for the horizontal arm, and need to fill
in a couple of calculations for April. (eg water flow).
I'm still dithering on the conclusion, currently summarized as :

At present the Rossi eCat has NOT been proven to be real by
any ONE experiment.
It must, however be noted that Rossi made the "Calorimetric Black
Box" eCAT available without any restrictions (other than the use of
radioactive spectral detectors), so the lack of proof is due to defects
in the observers instruments or techniques, not due to his attempt to
conceal anything.

RE: [Vo]:Terry's triode

[Jones Beene]

I have no problem with that characterization. 

 

However, it is the dimension of the holes that matters most, apparently.
This can explain why nickel-palladium alloy works so much better than
palladium in Arata experiments. There is a slight difference in the
inter-atomic spacing, which may not seem like much to the casual observer -
but is everything in end-results.

 

Rossi apparently does not use palladium at all - leaving open the
possibility whatever it is that provides the better results gives better
geometry with nickel. Peter believes that it is not an element per se, but
is more mechanical than an ingredient. Maybe so, but I would also be looking
for an alloy which gives similar 'holes' to Ni-Pd (85/15).

 

Jones

 

 

From: Axil Axil 

 

Rossi says that many elements beside nickel will work. The patent says that
Copper will work also. The reason: it is the atomic holes that produce the
reaction in a transition metal. It is these holes that are the active
nuclear sites. The support is the oxide of that metal whatever it is. This
oxide is a dielectric and provides support for the pure metal surface cover.
The hydrogen generates the atomic holes by erosion at startup.

 

 

 

Re: [Vo]:Terry's triode

[Axil Axil]

Rossi says that many elements beside nickel will work. The patent says that
Copper will work also. The reason: it is the atomic holes that produce the
reaction in a transition metal. It is these holes that are the active
nuclear sites. The support is the oxide of that metal whatever it is. This
oxide is a dielectric and provides support for the pure metal surface cover.
The hydrogen generates the atomic holes by erosion at startup.




On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

>  There is no mistake in your numbers, so far …. but ….
>
>
>
> As you may know, I think Rossi is deliberately seeding the internet
> discussions with packets of disinformation, since he does not want
> replication. I think that you and many others on vortex trust him too much,
> and I do not.
>
>
>
> Therefore, I can only go on what I am seeing and hearing first hand. From
> the projects which I have been involved with recently, and admittedly we
> have not come close to Rossi’s hero numbers, the minimum amount of nickel
> would needed to get to kilowatts is near where you say – 100 grams - more or
> less. I think it is more than that. This would need to be embedded in a
> dielectric. My feeling is the dielectric is the same as Arata – zirconia.
>
>
>
> An associate has analyzed the lines on the spectrographs in the Patent
> Application has found that the only 100% match for all the lines is zirconia
> and one other element which I cannot disclose now. Of course nickel is
> nearly 100% but this indicates that there is at least twice as much
> zirconium as nickel, so zirconia is at least part of the support.
>
>
>
> The fact that Focardi mentions Arata’s extreme contribution make me think
> that anyone contemplating replication should pay attention to him (and
> Takahashi/Kitamura).
>
>
>
> Jones
>
>
>
> *From:* Axil Axil
>
>
>
>
>
> nickel has a density of 9grams /cc
>
>
>
> 100 grams of nickel / (9 grams /cc) = 11 cc
>
>
>
> 11/1000 = 1%
>
>
>
> where did I go wrong?
>
>
>

RE: [Vo]:Terry's triode

[Jones Beene]

There is no mistake in your numbers, so far .. but ..

 

As you may know, I think Rossi is deliberately seeding the internet
discussions with packets of disinformation, since he does not want
replication. I think that you and many others on vortex trust him too much,
and I do not.

 

Therefore, I can only go on what I am seeing and hearing first hand. From
the projects which I have been involved with recently, and admittedly we
have not come close to Rossi's hero numbers, the minimum amount of nickel
would needed to get to kilowatts is near where you say - 100 grams - more or
less. I think it is more than that. This would need to be embedded in a
dielectric. My feeling is the dielectric is the same as Arata - zirconia.

 

An associate has analyzed the lines on the spectrographs in the Patent
Application has found that the only 100% match for all the lines is zirconia
and one other element which I cannot disclose now. Of course nickel is
nearly 100% but this indicates that there is at least twice as much
zirconium as nickel, so zirconia is at least part of the support. 

 

The fact that Focardi mentions Arata's extreme contribution make me think
that anyone contemplating replication should pay attention to him (and
Takahashi/Kitamura).

 

Jones

 

From: Axil Axil 

 

 

nickel has a density of 9grams /cc

 

100 grams of nickel / (9 grams /cc) = 11 cc

 

11/1000 = 1%

 

where did I go wrong?

 

Re: [Vo]:cheap ball mill / glove box alternative to Bell jar?

[Axil Axil]

What you need to make is pure nickel with many atomic defects at the
surface. Below the surface is NiO because the hydrogen will not penetrate to
the very bottom of the NiO layer.

On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 4:35 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

>  Fran,
>
>
>
> Nickel alone CANNOT remain oxidized in hot hydrogen. It is quickly reduced
> to the metal.
>
>
>
> “Supported nickel” as opposed to NiO can work in hot hydrogen, and it does
> this by “sharing” an oxygen with the support - and thus remains partially
> oxidized.
>
>
>
> That is the only way you ever get the benefit of NiO in a hot hydrogen
> environment.
>
>
>
> Jones
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Roarty, Francis X [mailto:francis.x.roa...@lmco.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, May 06, 2011 10:50 AM
> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
> *Subject:* RE: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:cheap ball mill / glove box alternative
> to Bell jar?
>
>
>
> Jones,
>
> Ok that may apply to  the major surface area and a vacuum may be necessary
> to degas  but Stremmenos’ point about absorbing an enormous quantity of
> hydrogen after heat + vacuum purifying his powder suggests that the nano
> pores and defects of his micro particles as delivered remain oxidized. Perhaps
> we are describing “clean” at 2 different scales and again tripping over the
> difference between normal surface area / volume between particles and the
> more extreme Casimir geometry where I posit the relativistic volume is
> magnitudes larger than the spatial volume appears from our perspective ……
> MAYBE Rossi’s secret ingredient is a chemical that enhances the Casimir
> effect by either cleaning or backfilling the existing cavities such that
> more hydrogen is translated to extreme fractional values up to 1/137.
>
> Regards
>
> Fran
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [snip]* *
>
> Anyhow, this is very important, because I observed it and then told Sergio.
> If we degassed (nickel powder, at this point) at an extremely low pressure,
> i.e.. 10-6, which is one-millionth of atmospheric pressure, for one week
> at a temperature of 500° [Celsius], so that all the oxides on the surface of
> the micro-particles of nickel were eliminated (this means all of the oxides
> that have formed, because we are surrounded by an oxygen atmosphere) ...
> well, upon charging it, it sucked up, how can I put it, an enormous quantity
> of hydrogen (I was using hydrogen). And the temperature, which had been
> 500°, began to rise considerably, and got higher and higher, over the 1000°
> mark. I got scared, and shut everything down [laughs], because, I said to
> myself, “This is going to blow up”!
>
>
>
> The temperature went up very fast. Probably there was chemical reaction too
> ... specifically, hydrides were being formed, which are... I didn’t have the
> patience to wait until it reached a steady level, but the previous
> experiments which … as far as exothermic emission from nickel is concerned …
> this excess [of heat] went on even for six months, so it did … but it wasn’t
> absorbing all that much hydrogen ... so I understood that the trick was
> purifying the nickel as much as possible... Talking out all the gases it
> absorbs … plus the oxides formed on the surface of the nickel
> micro-particles.[/snip]
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net]
> *Sent:* Friday, May 06, 2011 11:33 AM
> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
> *Subject:* EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:cheap ball mill / glove box alternative to
> Bell jar?
>
>
>
> You do not need to flush the ball mill with helium. Nickel resists
> oxidation at ambient very well, and any surface oxide remaining will be
> reduced on the first contact with hydrogen.
>
>
>
> If this is un-activated Raney-type nickel you are milling, of course you
> know to activate after ball milling, NOT before.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Roarty, Francis X
>
>
>
> Would ball milling nickel in a glove box of helium produce a similar oxygen
> free powder without the need for a bell jar to out gas?
>

Re: [Vo]:Terry's triode

[Axil Axil]

NiO is a dielectric. When hydrogen is introduced at reactor startup, pure
nickel with many atomic holes is produced on the surface through the action
of hydrogen erosion. However, this base of the powder closest to the wall is
still NiO, a dielectric.

On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 4:15 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

>  *From:* Axil Axil
>
>
>
> Ø
>
> Ø  I repeat: the nickel powder is only 3% or less of the volume of the
> reaction chamber.
>
>
>
> Sorry. Absolutely not. Nickel or any metal nanopowder must be supported,
> and that could be the other 97% if the 3% is correct (which I doubt).
>
>
>
> Bare metal nanopowder can never work. Period.
>
>
>
> Ø  It must be affixed to the stainless steel reaction vessel wall.
>
>
>
> Nope. That would mean it is unsupported.
>
>
>
> Unsupported nanopowder does not work. This has been tried repeatedly with
> no success, since all metals agglomerate in a matter of seconds.
>
>
>
> I know of no exception to the rule that metal nanopowder must be partially
> embedded in a dielectric – that is what is meant by “supported”.
>
>
>
> Jones
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

RE: [Vo]:cheap ball mill / glove box alternative to Bell jar?

[Jones Beene]

Fran,

 

Nickel alone CANNOT remain oxidized in hot hydrogen. It is quickly reduced
to the metal.

 

“Supported nickel” as opposed to NiO can work in hot hydrogen, and it does
this by “sharing” an oxygen with the support - and thus remains partially
oxidized. 

 

That is the only way you ever get the benefit of NiO in a hot hydrogen
environment.

 

Jones

 

 

 

 

 

From: Roarty, Francis X [mailto:francis.x.roa...@lmco.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 10:50 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:cheap ball mill / glove box alternative to
Bell jar?

 

Jones,

Ok that may apply to  the major surface area and a vacuum may be necessary
to degas  but Stremmenos’ point about absorbing an enormous quantity of
hydrogen after heat + vacuum purifying his powder suggests that the nano
pores and defects of his micro particles as delivered remain oxidized.
Perhaps we are describing “clean” at 2 different scales and again tripping
over the difference between normal surface area / volume between particles
and the more extreme Casimir geometry where I posit the relativistic volume
is magnitudes larger than the spatial volume appears from our perspective ……
MAYBE Rossi’s secret ingredient is a chemical that enhances the Casimir
effect by either cleaning or backfilling the existing cavities such that
more hydrogen is translated to extreme fractional values up to 1/137.

Regards

Fran

 

 

 

[snip] 

Anyhow, this is very important, because I observed it and then told Sergio.
If we degassed (nickel powder, at this point) at an extremely low pressure,
i.e.. 10-6, which is one-millionth of atmospheric pressure, for one week at
a temperature of 500° [Celsius], so that all the oxides on the surface of
the micro-particles of nickel were eliminated (this means all of the oxides
that have formed, because we are surrounded by an oxygen atmosphere) ...
well, upon charging it, it sucked up, how can I put it, an enormous quantity
of hydrogen (I was using hydrogen). And the temperature, which had been
500°, began to rise considerably, and got higher and higher, over the 1000°
mark. I got scared, and shut everything down [laughs], because, I said to
myself, “This is going to blow up”!

 

The temperature went up very fast. Probably there was chemical reaction too
... specifically, hydrides were being formed, which are... I didn’t have the
patience to wait until it reached a steady level, but the previous
experiments which … as far as exothermic emission from nickel is concerned …
this excess [of heat] went on even for six months, so it did … but it wasn’t
absorbing all that much hydrogen ... so I understood that the trick was
purifying the nickel as much as possible... Talking out all the gases it
absorbs … plus the oxides formed on the surface of the nickel
micro-particles.[/snip]

 

 

From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] 
Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 11:33 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:cheap ball mill / glove box alternative to Bell
jar?

 

You do not need to flush the ball mill with helium. Nickel resists oxidation
at ambient very well, and any surface oxide remaining will be reduced on the
first contact with hydrogen. 

 

If this is un-activated Raney-type nickel you are milling, of course you
know to activate after ball milling, NOT before. 

 

 

From: Roarty, Francis X 

 

Would ball milling nickel in a glove box of helium produce a similar oxygen
free powder without the need for a bell jar to out gas? 

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:cheap ball mill / glove box alternative to Bell jar?

[Axil Axil]

exactly!!!

On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 4:23 PM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson <
svj.orionwo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Makes me wunder if applying heat is really all that necessary. ...Or
> perhaps raw external heat is only necessary at first, as Rossi seems
> to indicate.
>
> The speculated implication is that it's actually the amount of
> electron packing going on that is a crucial element in sustaining the
> reaction.
>
> Perhaps once the "chain reaction" is initiated the external heating
> element essentially becomes irrelevant. (This would make sense to me.
> I never understood WHY Rossi always claimed it's necessary to keep the
> external heating element always on - for allegedly "safety reasons."
> That never made any sense to me. Makes me think the heating element is
> actually there for another reason.) Once the reaction is initiated,
> perhaps it then becomes a matter of controlling the amount of electron
> packing going on which, in turn, manipulates the strength of the
> reaction.
>
> Regards
> Steven Vincent Johnson
> www.OrionWorks.com
> www.zazzle.com/orionworks
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Terry's triode

[Axil Axil]

nickel has a density of 9grams /cc

100 grams of nickel / (9 grams /cc) = 11 cc

11/1000 = 1%

where did I go wrong?

On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 4:15 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

>  *From:* Axil Axil
>
>
>
> Ø
>
> Ø  I repeat: the nickel powder is only 3% or less of the volume of the
> reaction chamber.
>
>
>
> Sorry. Absolutely not. Nickel or any metal nanopowder must be supported,
> and that could be the other 97% if the 3% is correct (which I doubt).
>
>
>
> Bare metal nanopowder can never work. Period.
>
>
>
> Ø  It must be affixed to the stainless steel reaction vessel wall.
>
>
>
> Nope. That would mean it is unsupported.
>
>
>
> Unsupported nanopowder does not work. This has been tried repeatedly with
> no success, since all metals agglomerate in a matter of seconds.
>
>
>
> I know of no exception to the rule that metal nanopowder must be partially
> embedded in a dielectric – that is what is meant by “supported”.
>
>
>
> Jones
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:cheap ball mill / glove box alternative to Bell jar?

[OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson]

Makes me wunder if applying heat is really all that necessary. ...Or
perhaps raw external heat is only necessary at first, as Rossi seems
to indicate.

The speculated implication is that it's actually the amount of
electron packing going on that is a crucial element in sustaining the
reaction.

Perhaps once the "chain reaction" is initiated the external heating
element essentially becomes irrelevant. (This would make sense to me.
I never understood WHY Rossi always claimed it's necessary to keep the
external heating element always on - for allegedly "safety reasons."
That never made any sense to me. Makes me think the heating element is
actually there for another reason.) Once the reaction is initiated,
perhaps it then becomes a matter of controlling the amount of electron
packing going on which, in turn, manipulates the strength of the
reaction.

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:cheap ball mill / glove box alternative to Bell jar?

[Axil Axil]

See:



http://www.emissionlabs.com/html/articles/GETTER/getter.htm



Rossi spent a year or more trying many combinations of getters and “low work
function” electron emitters in a trial and error optimization effort.



It is not possible to deduce the results of his thousands of trials.



I would start with zirconium as a getter.




On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 3:35 PM, Roarty, Francis X  wrote:

> Axil,
>
> That works well with your citation regarding the
> pressurized hydrogen being added to the ambient atmosphere in the last demo
> attended by the Swedes. I take it
>
> That you are conjecturing about the secret ingredient or is also there a
> known getter material being used that I simply wasn’t aware of?
>
> Regards
>
> Fran
>
>
>
> *From:* Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, May 06, 2011 2:55 PM
>
> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
> *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:cheap ball mill / glove box alternative
> to Bell jar?
>
>
>
> One of the properties of Rare earth elements is their abilities to clear
> trace amounts of gas from electron tube devices.
>
>
>
> Rossi has selected a Rare earth element that acts as a getter of trace
> gases to remove these gases from his reactor. This rare earth element(s)
> provides ongoing on-the-fly contaminating trace gas removal.
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 2:44 PM, Roarty, Francis X <
> francis.x.roa...@lmco.com> wrote:
>
> Agreed but at issue seems to be the access to the smallest Casimir geometry
> - my gut feeling is that the naked proton is so small already that it has
> the capability to translate to fractional/relativistic scales faster than
> the spatial volume can contain it provided the Casimir force is strong
> enough. IMHO this allows for relativistic forms of hydrogen [1/137] like
> deuterium ice or hydrinos. Any large atoms or molecules like nitrogen could
> easily seal off these cavities. My original premise was to prevent
> contamination of the internal lattice structure as larger nickel pellets
> were milled .. My current thought is that this is already too late and the
> metal defects still retain an ambient atmosphere from ore stage -This might
> even have something to do with why only certain sources of Pd seemed to
> provide repeatable cold fusion results based on the ambient atmosphere in
> the ore or the smelting process. If so it would be far easier for the
> refinery to extract or flush these gases with a desired gas while molten.
>
> Regards
> Fran
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 2:14 PM
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:cheap ball mill / glove box alternative to Bell
> jar?
>
> It's more likely the nitrogen is a problem.  After all, the atmosphere
> is 70% nitrogen.
>
> T
>
>
>

RE: [Vo]:Terry's triode

[Jones Beene]

From: Axil Axil 

 

* 

*  I repeat: the nickel powder is only 3% or less of the volume of the
reaction chamber. 

 

Sorry. Absolutely not. Nickel or any metal nanopowder must be supported, and
that could be the other 97% if the 3% is correct (which I doubt). 

 

Bare metal nanopowder can never work. Period.

 

*  It must be affixed to the stainless steel reaction vessel wall. 

 

Nope. That would mean it is unsupported.  

 

Unsupported nanopowder does not work. This has been tried repeatedly with no
success, since all metals agglomerate in a matter of seconds. 

 

I know of no exception to the rule that metal nanopowder must be partially
embedded in a dielectric - that is what is meant by "supported". 

 

Jones

 

 

 

Re: [Vo]:Terry's triode

[Axil Axil]

I repeat: the nickel powder is only 3% or less of the volume of the reaction
chamber. It must be affixed to the stainless steel reaction vessel wall. The
grid is a thin nickel screen that is placed between the powder and the
heater filament. The grid has a positive potential and it accelerates the H-
ions produced by the heater filament toward the stainless steel reaction
vessel wall at high speed.


On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 3:46 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

> -Original Message-
> From: Terry Blanton
>
> > It now occurs to me that he is flowing current between these two
> "heaters"
> causing a huge surplus of electrons within the Ni powder.
>
> OK. It could be diode or triode, and it could involve dielectric breakdown
> as well. If this is a triode then it is a lot closer to the Naudin/Moller
> MAHG then anyone has yet realized.
>
> This gets back to what appears to be a single lead on the band heater. This
> lead would be positive polarity, more than likely. If the reactor is fits
> tightly into the sleeve of the outer copper tube (it can be grooved to
> allow
> fluid flow), there is still a conductive pathway direct to the powder fill.
> This means that the negative must be coming through the axis.
>
> If Ed Storms and myself are correct: that there is a single axial tube,
> then
> that tube can in effect be the cathode, correct? Is that the way you were
> envisioning it?
>
> There would need to be ceramic insulation to keep the electrodes isolated -
> which is not all that tricky and since the powder needs to be supported by
> a
> dielectric, it is not fully conductive and acts as a semiconductor so there
> is no short circuit.
>
> How the grid would be placed is not clear, but it could be nickel mesh
> cloth, which is formed into an open tube, and sits between the cathode and
> anode, surrounded entirely by the supported powder, which is not fully
> conductive.
>
> In principal, this is a triode, and not unlike the MAHG except that the
> fill
> is a semiconductor instead of a gas.
>
> Crazy but possible.
>
> Jones
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Focardi achieved considerable success in previous experiments

[Axil Axil]

If memory serves, hydrogen has three ionization potentials, and these
voltages are all under 20 volts.


On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 3:47 PM, Roarty, Francis X  wrote:

> Axil,
>
> I seem to recall this number of ions  vs spillover cat was
> challenged previously but  combined with the idea Terry just introduced
> about coating the heater element and an excess of electrons – you got my
> attention…  can you expand?
>
> Regards
>
> Fran
>
>
>
> *From:* Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, May 06, 2011 3:10 PM
>
> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
> *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Focardi achieved considerable success in
> previous experiments
>
>
>
> You may now be able to accept this old post follows:
>
>
>
> As I stated before in the Cat-E patent, Rossi ash contains no element
> heavier the zinc. Rossi has stated that he does not use precious metals in
> the Cat-E.
>
>
>
> The logical conclusion is that that there is no spill over catalyst mixed
> in with the nickel catalyst.
>
>
>
> The source of hydrogen ionization works at a distance from the surface of
> the nickel powder.
>
>
>
> The internal heater can generate a 1000 times more H- ions that any spill
> over catalyst element could possible produce. This internal heater is
> capable of ionizing the entire volume of the hydrogen if required.
>
>
>
>
>
> The internal heater (cathode) must be placed at a precise distance from the
> surface of the catalytic powder to maintain the correct electrostatic and
> heat gradient in the hydrogen gas (*vis*'*-à-vis' * H- , H2). This
> distance is determined experimentally.
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 2:58 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:
>
> On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 2:54 PM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson
>  wrote:
>
> > Of more concern to me: Wouldn't your speculation possibly result in a
> > very dangerous electrical problem for any human who attempted to
> > handle the e-cats? I'm thinking the electrical flow would would not be
> > insulated. Or have I misunderstood something crucial here.
>
> Well, did you see the wrappings on the reporter's video?  Looked more
> like electrical insulation than gamma or thermal.
>
> Anyway, no, it would not necessarily have to be of a huge potential.
> Consider the grid voltage of a triode verses the anode or cathode.
> Very little control voltage is required.
>
> T
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Focardi achieved considerable success in previous experiments

[Axil Axil]

Remember that Rossi is an expert in thermoelectric devices. He added these
thermoelectric techniques to improve Ficardi’s nickel ideas.



He says he did thousands of experiments to perfect his “secret”.



I conjecture his many experiments were trying various thermoelectric element
combinations as electron emission coating on his electric heater filament.




On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 3:39 PM, Peter Gluck  wrote:

> A very intersting idea, we have to follow up it, as much as we can, I
> think. The device works wirth H- ions
> Peter
>
>
> On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 9:40 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:
>
>> On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 11:26 AM, Peter Gluck 
>> wrote:
>> > Thanks, I also noticed that but "tessitura" is open to interpretation,
>> it is
>> > morphology on more levels.. If it is true than Ni has not to be
>> "prepared"
>> > or processed for being active.
>> > I still had no time to complete the 'Rossi speak'- English dictionary.
>> > Stremmenos speaks the same language.
>> > Much more interesting was that Stremmenos has told about
>> > the deep degassing of the surface of Ni, including removal
>> > of Ni oxides.
>>
>> Peter,
>>
>> I think Rossi has one extra trick up his sleeve.  I could never figure
>> out the electrical wiring for the "heaters" and why he needed the band
>> heater in addition to the auxiliary heater in the end pipe.  It now
>> occurs to me that he is flowing current between these two "heaters"
>> causing a huge surplus of electrons within the Ni powder.  I think
>> these excess electrons are the catalyzer which causes the
>> amplification of the heat energy.  By what exact method, I am unsure;
>> but, it would explain how he controls the reaction.  It is literally
>> modulated by the electron flow sort of like a thermonic "valve".
>>
>> T
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Peter Gluck
> Cluj, Romania
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
>
>

RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Focardi achieved considerable success in previous experiments

[Roarty, Francis X]

Axil,
I seem to recall this number of ions  vs spillover cat was 
challenged previously but  combined with the idea Terry just introduced about 
coating the heater element and an excess of electrons - you got my attention... 
 can you expand?
Regards
Fran

From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 3:10 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Focardi achieved considerable success in previous 
experiments

You may now be able to accept this old post follows:

As I stated before in the Cat-E patent, Rossi ash contains no element heavier 
the zinc. Rossi has stated that he does not use precious metals in the Cat-E.

The logical conclusion is that that there is no spill over catalyst mixed in 
with the nickel catalyst.

The source of hydrogen ionization works at a distance from the surface of the 
nickel powder.

The internal heater can generate a 1000 times more H- ions that any spill over 
catalyst element could possible produce. This internal heater is capable of 
ionizing the entire volume of the hydrogen if required.


The internal heater (cathode) must be placed at a precise distance from the 
surface of the catalytic powder to maintain the correct electrostatic and heat 
gradient in the hydrogen gas (vis'-à-vis'  H- , H2). This distance is 
determined experimentally.

On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 2:58 PM, Terry Blanton 
mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com>> wrote:
On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 2:54 PM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson
mailto:svj.orionwo...@gmail.com>> wrote:

> Of more concern to me: Wouldn't your speculation possibly result in a
> very dangerous electrical problem for any human who attempted to
> handle the e-cats? I'm thinking the electrical flow would would not be
> insulated. Or have I misunderstood something crucial here.
Well, did you see the wrappings on the reporter's video?  Looked more
like electrical insulation than gamma or thermal.

Anyway, no, it would not necessarily have to be of a huge potential.
Consider the grid voltage of a triode verses the anode or cathode.
Very little control voltage is required.

T

[Vo]:Terry's triode

[Jones Beene]

-Original Message-
From: Terry Blanton 

> It now occurs to me that he is flowing current between these two "heaters"
causing a huge surplus of electrons within the Ni powder.  

OK. It could be diode or triode, and it could involve dielectric breakdown
as well. If this is a triode then it is a lot closer to the Naudin/Moller
MAHG then anyone has yet realized.

This gets back to what appears to be a single lead on the band heater. This
lead would be positive polarity, more than likely. If the reactor is fits
tightly into the sleeve of the outer copper tube (it can be grooved to allow
fluid flow), there is still a conductive pathway direct to the powder fill.
This means that the negative must be coming through the axis.

If Ed Storms and myself are correct: that there is a single axial tube, then
that tube can in effect be the cathode, correct? Is that the way you were
envisioning it? 

There would need to be ceramic insulation to keep the electrodes isolated -
which is not all that tricky and since the powder needs to be supported by a
dielectric, it is not fully conductive and acts as a semiconductor so there
is no short circuit. 

How the grid would be placed is not clear, but it could be nickel mesh
cloth, which is formed into an open tube, and sits between the cathode and
anode, surrounded entirely by the supported powder, which is not fully
conductive. 

In principal, this is a triode, and not unlike the MAHG except that the fill
is a semiconductor instead of a gas.

Crazy but possible.

Jones

Re: [Vo]:Focardi achieved considerable success in previous experiments

[Peter Gluck]

A very intersting idea, we have to follow up it, as much as we can, I think.
The device works wirth H- ions
Peter

On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 9:40 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:

> On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 11:26 AM, Peter Gluck 
> wrote:
> > Thanks, I also noticed that but "tessitura" is open to interpretation, it
> is
> > morphology on more levels.. If it is true than Ni has not to be
> "prepared"
> > or processed for being active.
> > I still had no time to complete the 'Rossi speak'- English dictionary.
> > Stremmenos speaks the same language.
> > Much more interesting was that Stremmenos has told about
> > the deep degassing of the surface of Ni, including removal
> > of Ni oxides.
>
> Peter,
>
> I think Rossi has one extra trick up his sleeve.  I could never figure
> out the electrical wiring for the "heaters" and why he needed the band
> heater in addition to the auxiliary heater in the end pipe.  It now
> occurs to me that he is flowing current between these two "heaters"
> causing a huge surplus of electrons within the Ni powder.  I think
> these excess electrons are the catalyzer which causes the
> amplification of the heat energy.  By what exact method, I am unsure;
> but, it would explain how he controls the reaction.  It is literally
> modulated by the electron flow sort of like a thermonic "valve".
>
> T
>
>


-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:cheap ball mill / glove box alternative to Bell jar?

[Roarty, Francis X]

Axil,
That works well with your citation regarding the pressurized 
hydrogen being added to the ambient atmosphere in the last demo attended by the 
Swedes. I take it
That you are conjecturing about the secret ingredient or is also there a known 
getter material being used that I simply wasn't aware of?
Regards
Fran

From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 2:55 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:cheap ball mill / glove box alternative to Bell 
jar?

One of the properties of Rare earth elements is their abilities to clear trace 
amounts of gas from electron tube devices.

Rossi has selected a Rare earth element that acts as a getter of trace gases to 
remove these gases from his reactor. This rare earth element(s) provides 
ongoing on-the-fly contaminating trace gas removal.

On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 2:44 PM, Roarty, Francis X 
mailto:francis.x.roa...@lmco.com>> wrote:
Agreed but at issue seems to be the access to the smallest Casimir geometry - 
my gut feeling is that the naked proton is so small already that it has the 
capability to translate to fractional/relativistic scales faster than the 
spatial volume can contain it provided the Casimir force is strong enough. IMHO 
this allows for relativistic forms of hydrogen [1/137] like deuterium ice or 
hydrinos. Any large atoms or molecules like nitrogen could easily seal off 
these cavities. My original premise was to prevent contamination of the 
internal lattice structure as larger nickel pellets were milled .. My current 
thought is that this is already too late and the metal defects still retain an 
ambient atmosphere from ore stage -This might even have something to do with 
why only certain sources of Pd seemed to provide repeatable cold fusion results 
based on the ambient atmosphere in the ore or the smelting process. If so it 
would be far easier for the refinery to extract or flush these gases with a 
desired gas while molten.

Regards
Fran



-Original Message-
From: Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 2:14 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:cheap ball mill / glove box alternative to Bell jar?

It's more likely the nitrogen is a problem.  After all, the atmosphere
is 70% nitrogen.

T

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Focardi achieved considerable success in previous experiments

[Peter Gluck]

Yes, this certainly seems a possibility! Let's watch the
following tests, demos and try to verify it.
Peter

On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 10:29 PM, Roarty, Francis X <
francis.x.roa...@lmco.com> wrote:

> T,
>That sounds really plausible, can you expand further?
> Great Insight!
> Fran
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 2:41 PM
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Focardi achieved considerable success in
> previous experiments
>
> On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 11:26 AM, Peter Gluck 
> wrote:
> > Thanks, I also noticed that but "tessitura" is open to interpretation, it
> is
> > morphology on more levels.. If it is true than Ni has not to be
> "prepared"
> > or processed for being active.
> > I still had no time to complete the 'Rossi speak'- English dictionary.
> > Stremmenos speaks the same language.
> > Much more interesting was that Stremmenos has told about
> > the deep degassing of the surface of Ni, including removal
> > of Ni oxides.
>
> Peter,
>
> I think Rossi has one extra trick up his sleeve.  I could never figure
> out the electrical wiring for the "heaters" and why he needed the band
> heater in addition to the auxiliary heater in the end pipe.  It now
> occurs to me that he is flowing current between these two "heaters"
> causing a huge surplus of electrons within the Ni powder.  I think
> these excess electrons are the catalyzer which causes the
> amplification of the heat energy.  By what exact method, I am unsure;
> but, it would explain how he controls the reaction.  It is literally
> modulated by the electron flow sort of like a thermonic "valve".
>
> T
>
>


-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Focardi achieved considerable success in previous experiments

[Roarty, Francis X]

T,
That sounds really plausible, can you expand further?
Great Insight!
Fran

-Original Message-
From: Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 2:41 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Focardi achieved considerable success in previous 
experiments

On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 11:26 AM, Peter Gluck  wrote:
> Thanks, I also noticed that but "tessitura" is open to interpretation, it is
> morphology on more levels.. If it is true than Ni has not to be "prepared"
> or processed for being active.
> I still had no time to complete the 'Rossi speak'- English dictionary.
> Stremmenos speaks the same language.
> Much more interesting was that Stremmenos has told about
> the deep degassing of the surface of Ni, including removal
> of Ni oxides.

Peter,

I think Rossi has one extra trick up his sleeve.  I could never figure
out the electrical wiring for the "heaters" and why he needed the band
heater in addition to the auxiliary heater in the end pipe.  It now
occurs to me that he is flowing current between these two "heaters"
causing a huge surplus of electrons within the Ni powder.  I think
these excess electrons are the catalyzer which causes the
amplification of the heat energy.  By what exact method, I am unsure;
but, it would explain how he controls the reaction.  It is literally
modulated by the electron flow sort of like a thermonic "valve".

T

Re: [Vo]:Focardi achieved considerable success in previous experiments

[OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson]

>From Terry,

>> Of more concern to me: Wouldn't your speculation possibly result in a
>> very dangerous electrical problem for any human who attempted to
>> handle the e-cats? I'm thinking the electrical flow would would not be
>> insulated. Or have I misunderstood something crucial here.
>
> Well, did you see the wrappings on the reporter's video?  Looked more
> like electrical insulation than gamma or thermal.

Well... now that you mention it. You're right. Perhaps Rossi's
"insulation" pulls double duty.

Perhaps at one time, years ago, Rossi was experimenting with an
earlier version of the e-Cat where he unintentionally hot-wired one of
the devices. While receiving an unpleasant shock, he may have
simultaneously noticed that the offending device was heating up far
more than expected. A shocking revelation! (This, BTW, is exactly what
I mean about overactive imaginations occasionally running rampant and
coming up with all sorts of speculative scenarios. I think Jones might
suffer from the same speculative "gift".)

Speculations or not, I think your thoughts on this matter should be
added to Jone's list. Don't worry if it's still fuzzy. Most everything
on Jones' list is fuzzy. You'll be in good company!

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:The Modus Operandi List for Radiation Free Energy Gain

[Terry Blanton]

On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 3:04 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

> Really? what does it cost in Atlanta ?

When you are drinking single malt scotch, you should always use heavy
water ice cubes.

T

Re: [Vo]:Focardi achieved considerable success in previous experiments

[Axil Axil]

You may now be able to accept this old post follows:



As I stated before in the Cat-E patent, Rossi ash contains no element
heavier the zinc. Rossi has stated that he does not use precious metals in
the Cat-E.



The logical conclusion is that that there is no spill over catalyst mixed in
with the nickel catalyst.



The source of hydrogen ionization works at a distance from the surface of
the nickel powder.



The internal heater can generate a 1000 times more H- ions that any spill
over catalyst element could possible produce. This internal heater is
capable of ionizing the entire volume of the hydrogen if required.





The internal heater (cathode) must be placed at a precise distance from the
surface of the catalytic powder to maintain the correct electrostatic and
heat gradient in the hydrogen gas (*vis*'*-à-vis' * H- , H2). This distance
is determined experimentally.

On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 2:58 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:

> On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 2:54 PM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson
>  wrote:
>
> > Of more concern to me: Wouldn't your speculation possibly result in a
> > very dangerous electrical problem for any human who attempted to
> > handle the e-cats? I'm thinking the electrical flow would would not be
> > insulated. Or have I misunderstood something crucial here.
>
> Well, did you see the wrappings on the reporter's video?  Looked more
> like electrical insulation than gamma or thermal.
>
> Anyway, no, it would not necessarily have to be of a huge potential.
> Consider the grid voltage of a triode verses the anode or cathode.
> Very little control voltage is required.
>
> T
>
>

RE: [Vo]:The Modus Operandi List for Radiation Free Energy Gain

[Jones Beene]

-Original Message-
From: Jed Rothwell 

> Actually, seriously, deuterium is pretty cheap ... 

Really? what does it cost in Atlanta ? 

...or is 'pretty cheap' more a reflection of your excellent financial health
?

Neither heavy water nor D2 could be called a bargain out here. Online, D2O
from

http://unitednuclear.com/chem.htm 

goes for $70.00 per 100 grams or $600.00 liter...making the D2 gas content
about ~$5000/kg plus the extraction cost, if you want to go that way.
$5/gram seems to be the going rate for bottles too, at least to small volume
users. A welding supplier around here charges $300 for a lecture bottle
containing 50 liters. This is the lowest grade - 99%.

If Rossi's cells each consume one gram of H2 a day, as he claims, and he
harvests the deuterium for resale - let's see: then the 300 cells in the
Greek factory will be making over 100,000 grams per year... enough to cover
the overhead, and not too shabby.

This would probably cause Homeland Security to take a close look, if it were
in the USA. 

However, to retreat back to the real M.O. - I doubt seriously if the Rossi
effect is the conversion of hydrogen to deuterium. (but it has not been
ruled out)

Jones

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:cheap ball mill / glove box alternative to Bell jar?

[Axil Axil]

What Rossi has done is as follows:



Generate large amounts of H- ions using a rare earth emitter of electrons
coating the filament of his internal heater.



These rare earth elements purify the hydrogen gas by absorbing trace
contaminating gases like oxygen and nitrogen.



The nickel powder has many atomic holes formed by the removal of oxygen from
the nickel powder at reactor startup.


On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 2:54 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:

> On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 2:44 PM, Roarty, Francis X
>  wrote:
> > Agreed but at issue seems to be the access to the smallest Casimir
> geometry - my gut feeling is that the naked proton is so small already that
> it has the capability to translate to fractional/relativistic scales faster
> than the spatial volume can contain it provided the Casimir force is strong
> enough. IMHO this allows for relativistic forms of hydrogen [1/137] like
> deuterium ice or hydrinos. Any large atoms or molecules like nitrogen could
> easily seal off these cavities. My original premise was to prevent
> contamination of the internal lattice structure as larger nickel pellets
> were milled .. My current thought is that this is already too late and the
> metal defects still retain an ambient atmosphere from ore stage -This might
> even have something to do with why only certain sources of Pd seemed to
> provide repeatable cold fusion results based on the ambient atmosphere in
> the ore or the smelting process. If so it would be far easier for the
> refinery to extract or flush these gases with a desired gas while molten.
>
> Suppose you have a huge number of excess free electrons flowing
> *through* the Ni powder *between* the two heaters?
>
> T
>
>

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:cheap ball mill / glove box alternative to Bell jar?

[Axil Axil]

One of the properties of Rare earth elements is their abilities to clear
trace amounts of gas from electron tube devices.



Rossi has selected a Rare earth element that acts as a getter of trace gases
to remove these gases from his reactor. This rare earth element(s) provides
ongoing on-the-fly contaminating trace gas removal.


On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 2:44 PM, Roarty, Francis X  wrote:

> Agreed but at issue seems to be the access to the smallest Casimir geometry
> - my gut feeling is that the naked proton is so small already that it has
> the capability to translate to fractional/relativistic scales faster than
> the spatial volume can contain it provided the Casimir force is strong
> enough. IMHO this allows for relativistic forms of hydrogen [1/137] like
> deuterium ice or hydrinos. Any large atoms or molecules like nitrogen could
> easily seal off these cavities. My original premise was to prevent
> contamination of the internal lattice structure as larger nickel pellets
> were milled .. My current thought is that this is already too late and the
> metal defects still retain an ambient atmosphere from ore stage -This might
> even have something to do with why only certain sources of Pd seemed to
> provide repeatable cold fusion results based on the ambient atmosphere in
> the ore or the smelting process. If so it would be far easier for the
> refinery to extract or flush these gases with a desired gas while molten.
>
> Regards
> Fran
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 2:14 PM
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:cheap ball mill / glove box alternative to Bell
> jar?
>
> It's more likely the nitrogen is a problem.  After all, the atmosphere
> is 70% nitrogen.
>
> T
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Focardi achieved considerable success in previous experiments

[Terry Blanton]

On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 2:54 PM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson
 wrote:

> Of more concern to me: Wouldn't your speculation possibly result in a
> very dangerous electrical problem for any human who attempted to
> handle the e-cats? I'm thinking the electrical flow would would not be
> insulated. Or have I misunderstood something crucial here.

Well, did you see the wrappings on the reporter's video?  Looked more
like electrical insulation than gamma or thermal.

Anyway, no, it would not necessarily have to be of a huge potential.
Consider the grid voltage of a triode verses the anode or cathode.
Very little control voltage is required.

T

RE: [Vo]:Confined "Protonium" close proximity to free and valence ellectrons

[Hoyt A. Stearns Jr.]

A few years ago I posted about some experiments I did with PdD cells. In one
experiment which was suggested by the physics of Dewey B. Larson, I raised
the entire apparatus to -50KV over night while running the normal
electrolysis via a battery, then switched the polarity to +50KV.  There were
some minor but bizarre results.  At first the Pd has an excess of electrons,
then later a deficit.  It doesn't seem possible to do this with the Rossi
devices because of all the external connections unless there's something
about that internal heater...

Hoyt Stearns
Scottsdale, Arizona US
  -Original Message-
  From: Wm. Scott Smith [mailto:scott...@hotmail.com]
  Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 9:56 PM
  To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; Fran Roarty; Francis Roarty
  Subject: [Vo]:Confined "Protonium" close proximity to free and valence
ellectrons


  Confined Proton close proximity to free electrons in the lattice-but they
can establish orbitals as the electrons are sucked into the space between
the protons. Should we call it a new state of matter---Protonium??? These
neutrons are moving very minimally not like the neutrons from other nuclear
reactions, fusion or fission.

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:cheap ball mill / glove box alternative to Bell jar?

[Terry Blanton]

On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 2:44 PM, Roarty, Francis X
 wrote:
> Agreed but at issue seems to be the access to the smallest Casimir geometry - 
> my gut feeling is that the naked proton is so small already that it has the 
> capability to translate to fractional/relativistic scales faster than the 
> spatial volume can contain it provided the Casimir force is strong enough. 
> IMHO this allows for relativistic forms of hydrogen [1/137] like deuterium 
> ice or hydrinos. Any large atoms or molecules like nitrogen could easily seal 
> off these cavities. My original premise was to prevent contamination of the 
> internal lattice structure as larger nickel pellets were milled .. My current 
> thought is that this is already too late and the metal defects still retain 
> an ambient atmosphere from ore stage -This might even have something to do 
> with why only certain sources of Pd seemed to provide repeatable cold fusion 
> results based on the ambient atmosphere in the ore or the smelting process. 
> If so it would be far easier for the refinery to extract or flush these gases 
> with a desired gas while molten.

Suppose you have a huge number of excess free electrons flowing
*through* the Ni powder *between* the two heaters?

T

Re: [Vo]:Focardi achieved considerable success in previous experiments

[OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson]

>From Terry,

...

> I think Rossi has one extra trick up his sleeve.  I could never figure
> out the electrical wiring for the "heaters" and why he needed the band
> heater in addition to the auxiliary heater in the end pipe.  It now
> occurs to me that he is flowing current between these two "heaters"
> causing a huge surplus of electrons within the Ni powder.  I think
> these excess electrons are the catalyzer which causes the
> amplification of the heat energy.  By what exact method, I am unsure;
> but, it would explain how he controls the reaction.  It is literally
> modulated by the electron flow sort of like a thermonic "valve".

This is an interesting perspective on the matter.

It also sort of makes me think of aspects pertaining to the WL theory
and the alleged packing of electrons within the lattice. However, I
don't really know if that's an appropriate association to make here or
not.

Of more concern to me: Wouldn't your speculation possibly result in a
very dangerous electrical problem for any human who attempted to
handle the e-cats? I'm thinking the electrical flow would would not be
insulated. Or have I misunderstood something crucial here.


Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:Focardi achieved considerable success in previous experiments

[Jed Rothwell]

Terry Blanton wrote:


It now
occurs to me that he is flowing current between these two "heaters"
causing a huge surplus of electrons within the Ni powder.  I think
these excess electrons are the catalyzer which causes the
amplification of the heat energy.  By what exact method, I am unsure;
but, it would explain how he controls the reaction.  It is literally
modulated by the electron flow sort of like a thermonic "valve".


Wow! Interesting if true. That's a neat idea. Someone should try it even 
if this is not Rossi's secret.


Arthur Clarke was crazy about Thermionic Valves a.k.a. radio tubes. When 
he was growing up in the 1920s one the first things he made was a radio. 
Back then it was a do-it-yourself project, kind of like building a 
microcomputer in 1975. He wrote a nice essay about the magical feeling 
of catching voices from the void.


He also made a telephone that transmitted by light, with a flashlight. 
The range was short but it worked.


- Jed

RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:cheap ball mill / glove box alternative to Bell jar?

[Roarty, Francis X]

Agreed but at issue seems to be the access to the smallest Casimir geometry - 
my gut feeling is that the naked proton is so small already that it has the 
capability to translate to fractional/relativistic scales faster than the 
spatial volume can contain it provided the Casimir force is strong enough. IMHO 
this allows for relativistic forms of hydrogen [1/137] like deuterium ice or 
hydrinos. Any large atoms or molecules like nitrogen could easily seal off 
these cavities. My original premise was to prevent contamination of the 
internal lattice structure as larger nickel pellets were milled .. My current 
thought is that this is already too late and the metal defects still retain an 
ambient atmosphere from ore stage -This might even have something to do with 
why only certain sources of Pd seemed to provide repeatable cold fusion results 
based on the ambient atmosphere in the ore or the smelting process. If so it 
would be far easier for the refinery to extract or flush these gases with a 
desired gas while molten.

Regards
Fran

 

-Original Message-
From: Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 2:14 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:cheap ball mill / glove box alternative to Bell jar?

It's more likely the nitrogen is a problem.  After all, the atmosphere
is 70% nitrogen.

T

Re: [Vo]:Focardi achieved considerable success in previous experiments

[Terry Blanton]

On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 11:26 AM, Peter Gluck  wrote:
> Thanks, I also noticed that but "tessitura" is open to interpretation, it is
> morphology on more levels.. If it is true than Ni has not to be "prepared"
> or processed for being active.
> I still had no time to complete the 'Rossi speak'- English dictionary.
> Stremmenos speaks the same language.
> Much more interesting was that Stremmenos has told about
> the deep degassing of the surface of Ni, including removal
> of Ni oxides.

Peter,

I think Rossi has one extra trick up his sleeve.  I could never figure
out the electrical wiring for the "heaters" and why he needed the band
heater in addition to the auxiliary heater in the end pipe.  It now
occurs to me that he is flowing current between these two "heaters"
causing a huge surplus of electrons within the Ni powder.  I think
these excess electrons are the catalyzer which causes the
amplification of the heat energy.  By what exact method, I am unsure;
but, it would explain how he controls the reaction.  It is literally
modulated by the electron flow sort of like a thermonic "valve".

T

Re: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:cheap ball mill / glove box alternative to Bell jar?

[Axil Axil]

Francis



You are barking up the wrong tree. From the last test of the 2.5 kw reactor
witnessed by the Swedes:



*Startup**. Prior to startup, the hydrogen bottle with a nominal pressure of
160 bars was connected for a short moment to the device to pressurize the
fuel container to about 25 bars. The air of atmospheric pressure was
remaining in the container as a small impurity. The amount of hydrogen with
the assumed container volume of 50 cm**3 **is 0.11 grams of hydrogen. The
electric heater was switched on at 10:25, and the meter reading was 1.5
amperes corresponding to 330 watts for the heating including the power for
the instrumentation, about 30 watts. The electric heater thus provides a
power of 300 watts to the nickel-hydrogen mixture. This corresponds also to
the nominal power of the resistor.*

* *

*Note: The air of atmospheric pressure was remaining in the container as a
small impurity*



The Nickel powder was prepared by adding hydrogen to nano-nickel in an *air
atmosphere*. It is my contention that the heating process/cathode action
provided by the internal heater is what forcibly packs hydrogen in massive
amounts into the nickel not the removal of oxygen.



You are pursuing the older watts level of power production technique. The
Rossi process produces kilowatt levels of power.




On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 1:50 PM, Roarty, Francis X  wrote:

> Jones,
>
> Ok that may apply to  the major surface area and a vacuum may be necessary
> to degass  but Stremmenos’ point about absorbing an enormous quantity of
> hydrogen after heat + vacuum purifying his powder suggests that the nano
> pores and defects of his micro particles as delivered remain oxidized. Perhaps
> we are describing “clean” at 2 different scales and again tripping over the
> difference between normal surface area / volume between particles and the
> more extreme Casimir geometry where I posit the relativistic volume is
> magnitudes larger than the spatial volume appears from our perspective ……
> MAYBE Rossi’s secret ingredient is a chemical that enhances the Casimir
> effect by either cleaning or backfilling the existing cavities such that
> more hydrogen is translated to extreme fractional values up to 1/137.
>
> Regards
>
> Fran
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [snip]
>
> Anyhow, this is very important, because I observed it and then told Sergio.
> If we degassed (nickel powder, at this point) at an extremely low pressure,
> i.e.. 10-6, which is one-millionth of atmospheric pressure, for one week
> at a temperature of 500° [Celsius], so that all the oxides on the surface of
> the micro-particles of nickel were eliminated (this means all of the oxides
> that have formed, because we are surrounded by an oxygen atmosphere) ...
> well, upon charging it, it sucked up, how can I put it, an enormous quantity
> of hydrogen (I was using hydrogen). And the temperature, which had been
> 500°, began to rise considerably, and got higher and higher, over the 1000°
> mark. I got scared, and shut everything down [laughs], because, I said to
> myself, “This is going to blow up”!
>
> The temperature went up very fast. Probably there was chemical reaction too
> ... specifically, hydrides were being formed, which are... I didn’t have the
> patience to wait until it reached a steady level, but the previous
> experiments which … as far as exothermic emission from nickel is concerned …
> this excess [of heat] went on even for six months, so it did … but it wasn’t
> absorbing all that much hydrogen ... so I understood that the trick was
> purifying the nickel as much as possible... Talking out all the gases it
> absorbs … plus the oxides formed on the surface of the nickel
> micro-particles.[/snip]
>
>
>
> *From:* Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net]
> *Sent:* Friday, May 06, 2011 11:33 AM
> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
> *Subject:* EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:cheap ball mill / glove box alternative to
> Bell jar?
>
>
>
> You do not need to flush the ball mill with helium. Nickel resists
> oxidation at ambient very well, and any surface oxide remaining will be
> reduced on the first contact with hydrogen.
>
>
>
> If this is un-activated Raney-type nickel you are milling, of course you
> know to activate after ball milling, NOT before.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Roarty, Francis X
>
>
>
> Would ball milling nickel in a glove box of helium produce a similar oxygen
> free powder without the need for a bell jar to out gas?
>

Re: [Vo]:cheap ball mill / glove box alternative to Bell jar?

[Terry Blanton]

It's more likely the nitrogen is a problem.  After all, the atmosphere
is 70% nitrogen.

T

RE: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:cheap ball mill / glove box alternative to Bell jar?

[Roarty, Francis X]

Jones,
Ok that may apply to  the major surface area and a vacuum may be necessary to 
degass  but Stremmenos' point about absorbing an enormous quantity of hydrogen 
after heat + vacuum purifying his powder suggests that the nano pores and 
defects of his micro particles as delivered remain oxidized. Perhaps we are 
describing "clean" at 2 different scales and again tripping over the difference 
between normal surface area / volume between particles and the more extreme 
Casimir geometry where I posit the relativistic volume is magnitudes larger 
than the spatial volume appears from our perspective .. MAYBE Rossi's 
secret ingredient is a chemical that enhances the Casimir effect by either 
cleaning or backfilling the existing cavities such that more hydrogen is 
translated to extreme fractional values up to 1/137.
Regards
Fran



[snip]
Anyhow, this is very important, because I observed it and then told Sergio. If 
we degassed (nickel powder, at this point) at an extremely low pressure, i.e.. 
10-6, which is one-millionth of atmospheric pressure, for one week at a 
temperature of 500° [Celsius], so that all the oxides on the surface of the 
micro-particles of nickel were eliminated (this means all of the oxides that 
have formed, because we are surrounded by an oxygen atmosphere) ... well, upon 
charging it, it sucked up, how can I put it, an enormous quantity of hydrogen 
(I was using hydrogen). And the temperature, which had been 500°, began to rise 
considerably, and got higher and higher, over the 1000° mark. I got scared, and 
shut everything down [laughs], because, I said to myself, "This is going to 
blow up"!
The temperature went up very fast. Probably there was chemical reaction too ... 
specifically, hydrides were being formed, which are... I didn't have the 
patience to wait until it reached a steady level, but the previous experiments 
which ... as far as exothermic emission from nickel is concerned ... this 
excess [of heat] went on even for six months, so it did ... but it wasn't 
absorbing all that much hydrogen ... so I understood that the trick was 
purifying the nickel as much as possible... Talking out all the gases it 
absorbs ... plus the oxides formed on the surface of the nickel 
micro-particles.[/snip]

From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net]
Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 11:33 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:cheap ball mill / glove box alternative to Bell jar?

You do not need to flush the ball mill with helium. Nickel resists oxidation at 
ambient very well, and any surface oxide remaining will be reduced on the first 
contact with hydrogen.

If this is un-activated Raney-type nickel you are milling, of course you know 
to activate after ball milling, NOT before.


From: Roarty, Francis X

Would ball milling nickel in a glove box of helium produce a similar oxygen 
free powder without the need for a bell jar to out gas?

[Vo]:The Ultimate cold fusion demo!

[Jed Rothwell]

The Outer Limits, "Final Exam" about a disgruntled cold fusion scientist who
threatens to blow up a city. See:

http://www.imdb.com/video/hulu/vi709100313/

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:The Modus Operandi List for Radiation Free Energy Gain

[Jed Rothwell]

Jones Beene wrote:

If the energy seen by Rossi were due to P-e-P, he could make a lot more
money selling the deuterium than providing heat ;)

... hey ... come to think of it ... you don't think that the deuterium tank
seen at one time in Rossi's setup was indicating that he could be harvesting
the ash  ? nah...


Actually, seriously, deuterium is pretty cheap, and it will get a lot 
cheaper if:


1. Cheap cold fusion energy becomes available, since most of the cost of 
extracting it is for energy.


2. There is a demand for it. There will be no demand with Rossi-style 
cold fusion, but if some other demand emerges, extraction technology can 
easily be improved. See the pilot plant photo in my book.


Deuterium is cheap, but helium-3 is potentially worth a fortune. If they 
can tune cells to crank that out, that might be fantastic! I do not 
think we would need He3 reactors for ordinary applications if we have 
cold fusion, but I gather that for specialized applications such as 
spacecraft it would have many advantages. I do not know much about it.


- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Focardi achieved considerable success in previous experiments

[Akira Shirakawa]

On 2011-05-06 17:26, Peter Gluck wrote:

Thanks, I also noticed that but "tessitura" is open to interpretation,
it is morphology on more levels.. If it is true than Ni has not to be
"prepared" or processed for being active.


Yes, I think you're right. With that word he was probably referring more 
to the physical structure (morphology/superficial appearance/etc) of 
nickel nanoparticles, which is primarily influenced by their 
manufacturing process, rather than other properties (chemical bonding, etc).


Cheers,
S.A.

RE: [Vo]:cheap ball mill / glove box alternative to Bell jar?

[Jones Beene]

You do not need to flush the ball mill with helium. Nickel resists oxidation
at ambient very well, and any surface oxide remaining will be reduced on the
first contact with hydrogen. 

 

If this is un-activated Raney-type nickel you are milling, of course you
know to activate after ball milling, NOT before. 

 

 

From: Roarty, Francis X 

 

Would ball milling nickel in a glove box of helium produce a similar oxygen
free powder without the need for a bell jar to out gas? 

Re: [Vo]:Focardi achieved considerable success in previous experiments

[Peter Gluck]

Thanks, I also noticed that but "tessitura" is open to interpretation, it is
morphology on more levels.. If it is true than Ni has not to be "prepared"
or processed for being active.
I still had no time to complete the 'Rossi speak'- English dictionary.
Stremmenos speaks the same language.

Much more interesting was that Stremmenos has told about
the deep degassing of the surface of Ni, including removal
of Ni oxides.

Peter

On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 6:06 PM, Akira Shirakawa
wrote:

> On 2011-05-06 16:51, Peter Gluck wrote:
>
>  Nano-nickel can be manufactured by different physical and chemical
>> methods (a very complex area of research) and it seems here has Rossi
>> succeeded to make a breakthrough.
>>
>
> I'm not to what extent this could be relevant (if at all) or if this
> information can be trusted, but Christos Stremmenos (honorary vice-president
> of Defkalion Green Energy corporation) added in a short follow-up email to
> his recent radio interview (of which I linked an English translation in
> another thread) that what allows Rossi to extract kilowatts of power from
> nickel rather than watts has nothing to do with its manufacturing process.
>
>
> http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/05/il-professor-stremmenos-ribadisce-il.html(in
>  Italian)
>
> "[...] Rossi ha avuto il grande merito di attivare il sistema attraverso
> questo catalizzatore da passare dai watt ai kilowatt [...] e aggiungo: non
> c'entra niente con la tessitura del nichel... "
>
> Cheers,
> S.A.
>
>


-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:Focardi achieved considerable success in previous experiments

[Akira Shirakawa]

On 2011-05-06 16:51, Peter Gluck wrote:


Nano-nickel can be manufactured by different physical and chemical
methods (a very complex area of research) and it seems here has Rossi
succeeded to make a breakthrough.


I'm not to what extent this could be relevant (if at all) or if this 
information can be trusted, but Christos Stremmenos (honorary 
vice-president of Defkalion Green Energy corporation) added in a short 
follow-up email to his recent radio interview (of which I linked an 
English translation in another thread) that what allows Rossi to extract 
kilowatts of power from nickel rather than watts has nothing to do with 
its manufacturing process.


http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/05/il-professor-stremmenos-ribadisce-il.html 
(in Italian)


"[...] Rossi ha avuto il grande merito di attivare il sistema attraverso 
questo catalizzatore da passare dai watt ai kilowatt [...] e aggiungo: 
non c'entra niente con la tessitura del nichel... "


Cheers,
S.A.

RE: [Vo]:Focardi achieved considerable success in previous experiments

[Jones Beene]

From: Jed Rothwell 

 

*  Arata made a similar breakthrough with palladium nanopowder long before
Rossi.

 

For the record, Arata concluded that his alloy of mostly nickel and
palladium was 10 times more active than palladium alone, in nanopowder form.
This alloy only works on a support of zirconia, and this is using deuterium
gas. His results with hydrogen were not as good.

 

Ahern tested different alloys with hydrogen - and gradually reduced the Pd
content until the excess heat results reversed - and found the best
Arata-style alloy is about 85% nickel, 15% palladium in a zirconia support.
That is the best for hydrogen, not necessarily deuterium. 

 

Takahashi has tested a large assortment of nanopowders, including the ones
Arata specified, and at the recent ACS stated that the Ahern sample was the
most active sample he has tested. 

 

Jones

 

 

Re: [Vo]:Focardi achieved considerable success in previous experiments

[Peter Gluck]

The tests with the cells had been always performed in the Siena Univ.Physics
Dept.- the analytical work in many labs.
The authors are presented in alphabetical order, by tradition, otherwise
papers with multiple authors create some problems.

Nano-nickel can be manufactured by different physical and chemical methods
(a very complex area of research) and it seems here has Rossi succeeded to
make a breakthrough.
Peter

On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> This is part of a message I posted in another forum, worth recalling here
> --
>
> . . . . I mentioned that Fleischmann et al. sustained high power density
> and temperatures for 2 to 3 months with many cells. There were others. Most
> notably, I should have said that Focardi et al. did. That's very important,
> since they were using Ni-H, similar to Rossi. See:
>
> http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/CampariEGphotonandp.pdf
>
> (Oops. I have to fix the Fig. 6 caption in this paper.)
>
> As you see, there are 9 authors from two universities. This was published
> in 2004. This paper shows two samples: one that produced 900 MJ in 278 days,
> and one that produced 600 MJ in 319 days. The first one is 37 W average.
> That's a respectable power level for such a small device. Nothing like
> Rossi, but still, it is easily measured.
>
> . . . There is plenty of precedent for Rossi. The people he is working with
> have seen similar effects for years with nickel. They were using macroscopic
> samples, whereas Rossi is using nanoparticle powder. Arata made a similar
> breakthrough with palladium nanopowder long before Rossi.
>
> Unless you think these 9 professors and many others are committing fraud as
> well, there is no reason to suppose that Rossi is now. They are doing
> more-or-less the same thing, and from a scientific perspective, 900 MJ over
> 278 days is just as astounding as the 1,000 MJ in 18 hours Rossi produced on
> Feb. 10.
>
> - Jed
>
>


-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:The Modus Operandi List for Radiation Free Energy Gain

[OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson]

>From Jones:

...

> ... hey ... come to think of it ... you don't think that the
> deuterium tank seen at one time in Rossi's setup was indicating
> that he could be harvesting the ash  ? nah...
>
> The excuse given at the time was to quench the reaction, but
> think about it, do you quench fire with gold? Check the relative
> price  the new gold rush?
>
> Come to think of it, if the casual observer was wondering why
> BLP has not countered Rossi with its own demo, yet seems to be
> flush with new money, then one need only imagine the price he
> can get from DoD/NASA for harvested Hy for use as either weapons
> or propellant.


Jones, you suffer from the same affliction that I suspect I'm cursed
with: I think you tend to over-speculate! IOW, you think too much. ;-)

I hope you don't take any real offense from this personal observation
of mine. I'm only trying to suggest: It takes one to know one.

Please note that being cursed with such an affliction hasn't stopped
me from reading your unique take on recent events. I suspect your
unique perceptions tend to augment my own fermentation processes.  You
certainly have a better grasp of the physics than I.

Guinness anyone?

PS: Keep updating the list!

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

[Vo]:cheap ball mill / glove box alternative to Bell jar?

[Roarty, Francis X]

Would ball milling nickel in a glove box of helium produce a similar oxygen 
free powder without the need for a bell jar to out gas?

Re: [Vo]:Stremmenos: "cold fusion will solve many problems of humanity" (English)

[Jed Rothwell]

Akira Shirakawa wrote:

Stremmenos: "cold fusion will solve many problems of humanity"
http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/05/stremmenos-cold-fusion-will-solve.html 



Whoa! This is must-read material. Wow.

A good translation, too.

- Jed

[Vo]:Focardi achieved considerable success in previous experiments

[Jed Rothwell]

This is part of a message I posted in another forum, worth recalling here --

. . . . I mentioned that Fleischmann et al. sustained high power density and
temperatures for 2 to 3 months with many cells. There were others. Most
notably, I should have said that Focardi et al. did. That's very important,
since they were using Ni-H, similar to Rossi. See:

http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/CampariEGphotonandp.pdf

(Oops. I have to fix the Fig. 6 caption in this paper.)

As you see, there are 9 authors from two universities. This was published in
2004. This paper shows two samples: one that produced 900 MJ in 278 days,
and one that produced 600 MJ in 319 days. The first one is 37 W average.
That's a respectable power level for such a small device. Nothing like
Rossi, but still, it is easily measured.

. . . There is plenty of precedent for Rossi. The people he is working with
have seen similar effects for years with nickel. They were using macroscopic
samples, whereas Rossi is using nanoparticle powder. Arata made a similar
breakthrough with palladium nanopowder long before Rossi.

Unless you think these 9 professors and many others are committing fraud as
well, there is no reason to suppose that Rossi is now. They are doing
more-or-less the same thing, and from a scientific perspective, 900 MJ over
278 days is just as astounding as the 1,000 MJ in 18 hours Rossi produced on
Feb. 10.

- Jed

RE: [Vo]:The Modus Operandi List for Radiation Free Energy Gain

[Jones Beene]

-Original Message-
From: mix...@bigpond.com 

>Ed Storms suggests:

>H-e-H --> D

The problem with this one is that the energy is all taken by the neutrino
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton%E2%80%93proton_chain_reaction#The_pep_re
action


Robin,

Yes. As far back as 1996 Mitchell Swartz concluded that this is possible,
but essentially hopeless for substantial energy production in "Possible
Deuterium Production from Light Water Excess Enthalpy Experiments Using
Nickel Cathodes", Journal New Energy volume 1, 3, 68-79 (1996). 

If the energy seen by Rossi were due to P-e-P, he could make a lot more
money selling the deuterium than providing heat ;)

... hey ... come to think of it ... you don't think that the deuterium tank
seen at one time in Rossi's setup was indicating that he could be harvesting
the ash  ? nah...

The excuse given at the time was to quench the reaction, but think about it,
do you quench fire with gold? Check the relative price  the new gold
rush?

Come to think of it, if the casual observer was wondering why BLP has not
countered Rossi with its own demo, yet seems to be flush with new money,
then one need only imagine the price he can get from DoD/NASA for harvested
Hy for use as either weapons or propellant. 

Jones

Re: [Vo]:RaiNews24 (ITA)

[Jed Rothwell]

mix...@bigpond.com wrote:


It should be possible to just shut down just the individual reactor that needs
to be maintained, and swap it out. That way the entire setup doesn't need to be
shut down.


I envision them in a tight array, close to one another, each radiating a 
lot of heat, like an automobile engine. You cannot reach into a thing 
like that and remove a component, even if that component is cool. I 
think you would have to wait for the regular 6-months maintenance time 
to swap out the dead cells. You would also swap out all of the ones that 
were used, leaving only reserve cells that were not used during the 
6-month period, or a few reserve cells that were used for only a few weeks.


They would be especially hot in an electric generator. A water heater or 
space heater would be cooler.


- Jed

Re: [Vo]:The Modus Operandi List for Radiation Free Energy Gain

[Terry Blanton]

On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 11:22 PM,   wrote:

> Electron annihilation doesn't produce a 1.22 MeV photon. It produces two 511 
> keV
> photons (180 deg. apart).

I knew that.  What I should have said was 1.22 MeV of energy.  Which
would also be wrong since the spin energy has to go somewhere.  Where
does it go?

T

[Vo]:Stremmenos: "cold fusion will solve many problems of humanity" (English)

[Akira Shirakawa]

Hello group,

An English translation of a recent radio interview to Christos 
Stremmenos, honorary vice-president of Defkalion Green Technologies, 
retired professor at the University of Bologna and former Greek 
ambassador in Italy, has finally been posted on 22passi blog:


Stremmenos: "cold fusion will solve many problems of humanity"
http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/05/stremmenos-cold-fusion-will-solve.html

He says many interesting things. Be warned though that his sentences in 
the original interview were often open ended, inconclusive. This has 
been fixed somewhat in the English version, but still keep in mind that.


By request of the interviewers and since the translation might be 
subject to further small changes and corrections, I'm not copy/pasting 
it here. Short excerpts for discussion purposes should be fine, however.


Enjoy,
S.A.

[Vo]:A Wild Time for temperature

[Roarty, Francis X]

We have known about temperature anomalies since Langmuir associated with 
hydrogen plasma and Now Rossi gives us a temperature which would melt Ni 
powder. My point gets back to an earlier thread regarding the hydrino being 
able to permeate through the stainless Steele reactor to leak out - this and 
the Langmuir temperature anomalies taken together suggest the plasma may be 
relativistically offset on the time axis -not only appearing "smaller" but also 
"faster" to any temperature sensing equipment. Since a thermometer by design is 
passive it may be able to measure the relativistic equivalent speed of the 
atoms being maintained by the dihydrinos in the plasma without sinking it. The 
reactor atmosphere internally is likely a Black Light plasma lamp that is 
bathing the temp sensor in some fraction with relativistic hydrogen. The 
"apparent" temp should drop and orbital expand as the fractional hydrogen 
disassociates and h1 is able to translate freely to the ambient density 
level/inertial frame. IMHO, if it forms fractional h2 and has to disassociate 
multiple times on it's return to ambient this might explain Life after death 
and the high temperature capability of atomic hydrogen welding - the ability to 
tap ZPE by forming h2 such that the free translation is opposed and the change 
in energy density / pressure on the atoms repeatedly snaps the bond 
mechanically which then reforms at lesser fractions releasing the same energy 
each time they reform.
Regards
Fran


-Original Message-
From: mix...@bigpond.com [mailto:mix...@bigpond.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 12:06 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:What is the D2 Canister next to the H2 Canister

In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Thu, 5 May 2011 04:09:15 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>The very fact that the Rossi process can ever got to 1600C indicated that
>the active nuclear areas in the catalyst survived to at least that
>temperature level. This indicates that the melting point of the catalyst was
>a few hundred degree C above that 1600C temperature. NiO melts at 2000C.
[snip]
He also didn't say how long it was at that temperature, it may have only been a
split second. ;)

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:RaiNews24 (ITA)

[Michele Comitini]

The plant can be made by many modules each one with its own control
electronics.  Each module would be a box with something like 6-10
reactors inside in parallel with just one input for the water and one
output for the steam, fuel included.  They would be connected to each
other so that
they can be swapped just turning the module off.  a 30% of the modules
would be off for six months, they would be activated when exhausted
modules
have to be replaced.

Not impossible to do, but time is really short for doing such a
complex integration.

mic

2011/5/6  :
> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Thu, 5 May 2011 17:54:35 -0400:
> Hi,
> [snip]
>>If the 2.5 kw unit can only run for 6 months, then having 50 replacement
>>sockets won’t matter, since after 6 months all 300 modules must ALL be
>>replaced.
>
> That depends on how long it takes to swap a module. If the computer simply
> switches in a new one, and switches out the old one to let it cool off, while
> alerting staff, then the old one can be replaced as soon as it is cool.
> I wouldn't expect all modules to die at precisely the same time after six
> months, due to natural variability in the output. Besides you could stagger 
> the
> process by supplying some with less Nickel than others, so that they
> deliberately fail sooner. Then you start the replacement process after say 1
> month, replacing a couple each day. The replacements all have a full load, so
> they tend to last another 6 months, maintaining the staggering.
>
> Regards,
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
>
>