Re: [Vo]:Shouldn't we consider the free chat GPT3.5 AGI?

[Alain Sepeda]

There are works to allow LLM to discuss in order to have reflection...
I've seen reference to an architecture where two GPT instances talk to each
other, with different roles, one as a searcher, the other as a critic...
Look at this article.
LLM may just be the building block of something bigger...
https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2023/04/gpt4-with-reflexion-has-a-superior-coding-score.html

add to that, they can use external applications (plugin), talk to
generative AI like Dall-E...

Many people say it is not intelligent, but are we ?
I see AI making mistakes very similar to the one I do when I'm tired, or
beginner...

The real difference is that today, AI are not the fruit of a Darwinian
evolution, with struggle to survive, dominate, eat or be eaten, so it's
less frightening than people or animals.
The only serious fear I've heard is that we become so satisfied by those
AIs, that we delegate our genetic evolution to them, and we lose our
individualistic Darwinian struggle to survive, innovate, seduce a partner,
enjoying a bee-Hive mentality, at the service of the AI system, like
bee-workers and bee-queen... The promoter of that theory estimate it will
take a millennium.
Anyway there is nothing to stop, as if a majority decide to stop developing
AI, a minority will develop them at their service, and China is ready, with
great experts and great belief in the future. Only the West is afraid.
(there is a paper on that circulating, where fear of AI is linked to
GDP/head)


Le lun. 10 avr. 2023 à 16:47, Jed Rothwell  a écrit :

> I wrote:
>
>
>> Food is contaminated despite our best efforts to prevent that.
>> Contamination is a complex process that we do not fully understand or
>> control, although of course we know a lot about it. It seems to me that as
>> AI becomes more capable it may become easier to understand, and more
>> transparent.
>>
>
> My unfinished thought here is that knowing more about contamination and
> seeing more complexity in it has improved our ability to control it.
>
>
> Sean True  wrote:
>
> I think it’s fair to say no AGI until those are designed in, particularly
>> the ability to actually learn from experience.
>>
>
> Definitely! ChatGPT agrees with you!
>

Re: [Vo]:ChatGPT translation of Takahashi's comment about plasma fusion

[Alain Sepeda]

I've seen the demo of an interesting tool, ResearchGPT, to have a
discussion with a scientific paper.

"

Introducing researchGPT – An open-source research assistant that allows you
to have a conversation with a research paper or any pdf. Repo linked the
comments.

"
Maybe some researchers could have access to the beta version.

https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenAI/comments/117mre5/introducing_researchgpt_an_opensource_research/



Le mar. 28 févr. 2023 à 16:20, Jed Rothwell  a
écrit :

> Akito Takahashi commented on the laser fusion experiment that was in the
> news some months ago. I translated his comments. Then I had ChatGPT and
> translate.google.com translate them. ChatGPT is almost as good as a
> human. It almost could have fooled me, except for one or two words.
> translate.google.com made several mistakes. You can see it is a computer
> translation. I think it got the basic meaning correct.
>
> ChatGPT made a strange error. It left out a parenthetical comment. I told
> it about that, and it generated a new version. It also said "neutral
> neutron" which a human would not say.
>
> Here is the ChatGPT translation. The part it left out in the first version
> is underlined:
>
> This is a laser implosion D-T fusion reaction with a COP of 1.2. As an
> experiment, it is groundbreaking because it exceeded the energy break even
> (COP=1). However, in order to implement it in society, it requires a
> technology that can repeatedly shoot multiple high-intensity beams (36?) of
> laser pulses with a COP>5 and synchronize the injection of DT solid
> pellets. Without this, it cannot be a power plant. The 14MeV neutral
> neutron from the DT reaction *(my old specialty)*, as well as technology
> to convert it into heat energy using a Li blanket, radiation damage and
> countermeasures due to neutral materials, and the proliferation of T
> (tritium), which does not occur naturally, are required. It will take
> decades to become a commercial reactor."
>
> (In short, the current situation is that there is exaggerated advertising
> for the budget acquisition of a large number of troops behind it.)
>
> Here is my correction to ChatGPT after the first version. This shows you
> can have a bilingual conversation:
>
> You left out this part: （私の昔の専門）, which modifies 14MeV中性子
>
>
> Here is the translate.google.com version:
>
> One shot laser implosion D-T pulse fusion reaction at COP=1.2. As an
> experiment, it is epoch-making because it exceeded the energy break even
> (COP=1). For social implementation, high-intensity multiple-beam (36 ?)
> laser-pulses can be fired repeatedly at 10 shots per second with COP>5, and
> without the technology to synchronously inject DT solid pellets at the
> target, power generation reactors not. Technological development is
> required for the conversion of 14 MeV neutrons (my old specialty) in the DT
> reaction into thermal energy with a Li blanket, countermeasures against
> activation and damage of materials by neutrons, and growth of unnatural T
> (tritium). It will be several decades before it becomes a commercial
> furnace.
>
> (In short, the current situation is behind the hype to obtain a budget for
> the lives of a large number of troops.)
>
> My version:
>
> This is a laser implosion D-T fusion reaction with a COP of 1.2. As an
> experiment, it is groundbreaking, because it produced energy exceeding
> break even (COP=1). However, in order to implement this in a practical,
> commercial generator, we will need technology that can repeatedly shoot
> multiple high-intensity laser pulse beams (perhaps 36?) with a COP>5,
> synchronized with the injection of DT solid pellets. Without such
> technology, this cannot be used in a power plant. Dealing with 14 MeV
> neutron radiation from the DT reaction (my old specialty), will require
> extensive new technology, first to convert the reaction into heat energy
> using a Li blanket, and to deal with damage from neutron activation of the
> blanket material, and the proliferation of T (tritium), a radioactive
> material not found in nature. It will take decades to develop such
> technology to make this into a commercial reactor.
>
> (In short, the current situation is that this is exaggerated public
> relations puffery to obtain the budget from Congress, which must support
> the large number of researchers needed for this project.)
>
>

Re: [Vo]:More on the WuFlu conspiracy theory

[Alain Sepeda]

I've read other article that let hope less mortality, but it will be huge
because we don't realize millions of people already die every year.

The ratio of dead over contaminated may be less dramatic , event if the
health care professional are well treated.
1- The reason is that people maybe be asymptomatic (it is a problem with
that virus which however stays contagious)
2- with time and propagation (through asymptomatic and slightly sick
people) the virus should lose mortality as seen often

Nothing is sure but it is considered in many articles...

Anyway, it is very contagious, and if the usual mortality of flu is
expected 0.1%, the 2.5 million death on the planet is a huge death toll...
it may be worse, not because of mortality only, but because more people are
contaminated than by usual flu...

It may be few times if not a dozen times more than usual if the mortality
is high as seen for the health care workers... 10 million, 30 million as
some says...

In France thus can be estimated as many times the usual 1 annual
toll... 5 ?
or much less if people start to behave consistently, washing hand, not
going to work when sick, wearing mask when sick, and even if very sick, we
may be well treated with the experience of the Chinese doctors (there is
some helpful old drugs), or simply treating consistently the bacterial
complication like for flu... (for me as asthmatic it was antibiotic for my
January flu).

My prediction is that we will nearly all catch it, and probably feel just a
cough... but for few of us it will be serious.
Take care!

Le ven. 14 févr. 2020 à 22:58, Terry Blanton  a écrit :

> Those are quotes, not citations.  I was looking for a citation for your
> comment that "Most appear to be okay now."  I have seen quotes that the
> mortality rate is 15.6%.
>
> On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 3:57 PM Jed Rothwell 
> wrote:
>
>> Terry Blanton  wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 3:37 PM Jed Rothwell 
>>> wrote: ...Most appear to be okay now.  
>>>
>>
>>> Citation?
>>>
>>
>> Dr. Peng and other researchers wrote that 40 health care professionals at
>> his hospital had been infected in January, a third of the cases included in
>> a study published last week in the Journal of the American Medical
>> Association. . . .
>>
>> Another doctor had started to show symptoms early last month, before
>> medical professionals knew to take extra precautions, according to the
>> state-run Health Times newspaper. He died this past Monday.
>>
>>
>> . . . and some other articles.
>>
>>

Re: [Vo]:Berlinguette, C.P., et al., Revisiting the cold case of cold fusion. Nature, 2019

[Alain Sepeda]

By the way, from what you read about the work of that team, was failure
predictable ?
do you know if they contacted experienced actors of the domain ?
Did they test fuel from other team (like the Japanese, or IH scientists?)

What I have seen is usual hate speech by Nature, and great enthusiasm
shown by Berlinguette group just a "work in progress"...


Le mer. 29 mai 2019 à 01:13, Jed Rothwell  a écrit :

> Note there are two other articles in Nature about the Google experiment.
> Both of them insufferable bullshit:
>
> https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01675-9
>
> https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01683-9
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Slaughterbots

[Alain Sepeda]

Our work would be to develop counter measures.
If there is sword, there is shield.

Le lun. 14 janv. 2019 à 02:41, Jed Rothwell  a
écrit :

> In my book, I predicted that small autonomous robot killers might be
> developed. I regret to say that a great deal of progress has been made, and
> some leading AI experts are alarmed at the prospects. See:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CO6M2HsoIA
>
> They do not need cold fusion, but cold fusion would enhance them a great
> deal.
>
>

Re: [Vo]:The potential weaponization of LENR

[Alain Sepeda]

The question is not if it will allow deadly weapons. It will, sure drones,
autonomous vehicles of many kinds, vessels, trucks, and less probably high
power bombs, but why not.

the question is if it will gives a stable advantage to some actors, like a
super poser, or to the weak power or citizen via terrorism.

To avoid the worst scenarii the paradox is that the weapons should be
available to everybody.
the seconds is that like for deadly diseases or biowarfare, we should have
countermeasures availeble, counter drones, bomb detectors, dissemination
diagnostics, and last resource, awful global regulation to deter anyone
trying to play with tha dragon's tail (something more or less like: we will
find you and your beloved and make you and them suffer the fire of hell, so
that you ask us we achieve you all)...



Le jeu. 16 août 2018 à 20:45, Jed Rothwell  a écrit :

> Martin Fleischmann worried about the possibility the cold fusion might be
> used for a weapon. He discussed that in his letters with Miles. The
> discussion is spread out over many letters. See p. 11, p. 430, and look for
> "D.U.":
>
> http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Fleischmanlettersfroa.pdf
>
> Martin told me that Edward Teller also worried that cold fusion might be
> used as a weapon.
>
> I cannot judge whether cold fusion might be weaponized, but I am sure it
> will revolutionize every aspect of conventional weapons, just as steam
> engines revolutionized naval weapons in the 19th century. Without steam,
> you could not have ironclad warships with large, modern cannons. They would
> be too heavy. (Granted, there were lighter steel-hulled sailing ships in
> the late 19th and early 20th century.)
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:LENR fission

[Alain Sepeda]

Jacques RUER have demonstrated using standard engineering that
- if you have a low COP LENr reactor proven
- if there is a positive temperature feedback
then you can engineer a device with any desired COP.

https://www.iscmns.org/work12/RuerJpreventingtherm.pdf

Brillouin system, becaus eif have ON/Off control can be engineered to be
not far from criticality by heat insulation, and triggered to pass over
criticality in ON state, and thus be controlled to be at critical state,
with a stable production of heat.

I'm more concerned by the fact that the metallurgical state is not clearly
mastered to optimise LENR...
Maybe we don't have all data.

Basically COP is not a useful factor.
It is abused in place of signal over noise by people imagining unknown
artifacts.
It is considered as a result, while it is just result of engineering done
for an experiment, not for a client.



2018-03-15 20:42 GMT+01:00 Axil Axil :

> The COP of the Brillouin reactor is now been verified to be under 1.5...
> nearly useless. If I remember correctly, MFMP produced over unity heat in
> some of their experiments but not very much. The same low COP issue arose
> in the Lugano demo. Low COP is a big problem for LENR. Most of the energy
> produced by LENR comes in the form of sub atomic particle generation which
> includes huge numbers of neutrinos. In the LENR reaction, the heat is
> provided by a minor energy channel involving hawking radiation. The
> Brillouin reactor is most likely pumping out a ton of sub atomic particles
> as seen in the experiments of Holmlid. Those particles need to be converted
> to heat. Therefore, the heat rich LENR reactor should be surrounded by a
> blanket of molten lead or thorium salt to capture muons that will catalyze
> muon fission. But this type of fission will produce a ton of neutrons
> similar to a hot fusion reactor. The dream of a LENR reactor in your
> basement might well be impossible unless Rossi has found a way to increase
> the proportion of the reaction energy to be radiated in the form of heat.
>
> To verify if this opinion is well founded, a LENR reactor should be
> surrounded in lead blocks up to a foot thick. We should see a large flux of
> neutrons produced by the lead.
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Cold fusion research reported at Oak Ridge

[Alain Sepeda]

many things governement do are not done because it is good or bad for a
supreme interest of the Nation, or of a big lobby, but because the worker
want to avoid troubles, please his boss, get a promotion, or sometime a
crazy desire by this lone worker to make world better as he imagine it.
the problem is when this lone worker is a boss, he can engage an agency in
something great or evil, if he succeed in making the interests of his
subordinates matching his great idea.

There is no NASA/NSA/DoE/USPTO plan, just various people having various
ambition, fears, and hope.

fear is a great motive for most people...

2018-02-22 0:16 GMT+01:00 Jed Rothwell :

> bobcook39...@hotmail.com  wrote:
>
> Oak Ridge has LENR categorized as Battelle confidential or has a dark
>> government classified program regarding LENR or cold fusion as it is
>> commonly called.  Their action to remove the reference is telling IMHO
>>
>
> How do you know this? If it is classified or "dark government," how did
> you find out about it? That would be secret, would it not?
>
> I have a low regard for the government's ability to keep secrets, and for
> the quality of its secrets, because my late father was in the intelligence
> business during and after WWII. He once told me:
>
> "if you ever get into the most secret room of the State Department, and
> you open the most secret file cabinet and look in the most secret drawer,
> you will find a dried up apple and an old newspaper."
>
>
> In the movie Dr. Strangelove, toward the end the Americans ask the Soviet
> ambassador where he got all of his sensitive secret information. He says,
> "our source was the New York Times." My mother heard that and said "that
> sounds about right."
>
> As far as I know, when references to cold fusion have disappeared from
> government agencies, news articles and the like, that has been because
> people were embarrassed by the topic, or because the top brass was
> infuriated by it. That happened in some Navy research labs.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Interest in cold fusion is waning

[Alain Sepeda]

I see the graph, and time fleeing since LENR papers were stored on FTP
archives.

2018-02-08 23:48 GMT+01:00 Jed Rothwell :

> Did the graph show up? Can people here see it?
>
>
> This discussion group software is a little out of date. A little, as in .
> . . 20 years?
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Interest in cold fusion is waning

[Alain Sepeda]

8>

by the way, any news on you video pitch? popular?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjvL4zNLOGw=youtu.be

2018-02-08 23:08 GMT+01:00 Jed Rothwell :

> The Google Trend for "cold fusion Rossi" has plunged. Thank goodness. See:
>
> https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=cold%20fusion%20rossi=all
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Interest in cold fusion is waning

[Alain Sepeda]

sorry jed, I'm just surprised by good moves.
Maybe the trafic is low because the peanut gallery is tired (like me), but
white and blue collar are moving. Some even told me to stop being negative
8)

Future will say if this is fruitful.

2018-02-08 21:38 GMT+01:00 Jed Rothwell <jedrothw...@gmail.com>:

> Alain Sepeda <alain.sep...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Jed, Don't despair ;-)
>>
>
> I am not the despairing type.
>
> I strongly believe in facing facts, even distressing ones. *Especially*
> distressing one.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Interest in cold fusion is waning

[Alain Sepeda]

Jed, Don't despair ;-)
Don't despair like I did still few days ago.

Hope is from a so improbable place, a so natural place.

LENR is a God's joke.


2018-02-08 20:38 GMT+01:00 Jed Rothwell :

> See LENR-CANR.org Total Downloads and the Google Trends graph over time
> from 2004 to the present:
>
> http://lenr-canr.org/wordpress/?page_id=1213
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Science does sometimes reject valid discoveries

[Alain Sepeda]

For me the most shocking case is about Semmelweis and before him Alexander
Gordon de Aberdeen.

http://www.antimicrobe.org/h04c.files/history/Lancet%20ID-Alexander%20Gordon%20puerperal%20sepsis%20and%20modern%20theories%20of%20infection%20control%20Semmelweis%20in%20perspective.pdf

The most shocking is that the illiterate poor mothers wer totally aware of
the statistics and prefered to give birth on the street front to the
hospital not to be helped by doctors who regularly were infecting them.
The doctors were deluded sincerely since for example one doctor suicided
after exchange with Semmelweis when he understood he killed a cousin.

Motivated beliefs are not conscious computations, but looks very sincere,
yet it is a motavated self blinding.
http://www.princeton.edu/~rbenabou/papers/REP_4_BW_nolinks_corrected%201.pdf


The worst motivation are not money (in fact money should help as real
innovations and discovery can be expected to give money and fame to the
discoverer), but laziness, ego, fear of change, ideology...It is not far
from the Innovation Dilemna...




2018-01-26 2:53 GMT+01:00 Jed Rothwell :

> A follow-up posting by me:
>
> Cold fusion is not unique. There are many, many examples of previous
> claims that were rejected even though the proof was rock solid, and there
> was no reason to doubt the claims. Lasers, the MRI and h. pylori are good
> examples. I have studied much of this history, digging up old books and
> contemporaneous original sources. People don't like to talk about these
> events so you seldom see them in history textbooks.
>
> I think there are many causes. As I said, it is human nature. Another
> major contributing factor is money. M-o-n-e-y, especially research funding.
> The locus of opposition to cold fusion has been the hot fusion program
> researchers, for obvious reasons. You see this in other institutions. The
> coal industry is fighting tooth and nail against natural gas and wind
> power. The congressman from Big Coal (WV) tried to pass a law banning the
> use of wind turbines, ostensibly because they kill birds. That's ridiculous
> for many reasons, not least because coal kills orders of magnitude more
> birds than wind per megawatt-hour, not to mention 20,000 Americans per year.
>
> The extent of opposition, and the irrationality of it, is surprising. You
> have to read original sources to get a sense of it. Take early aviation.
> Before 1908, practically no one believed that airplanes are real. The
> Scientific American printed vicious, irrational, unscientific attacks
> against claims, and the Wright brothers -- very similar to their attacks
> against cold fusion. (The Sci. Am. still has it in for the Wrights,
> repeating their nonsense attacks as recently as 2003.) In 1908 the Wrights
> demonstrated in France and in Washington DC and become famous overnight.
> They were on the front pages of newspapers worldwide. Hundreds of thousands
> of people saw them fly over the next several months. They were given awards
> by every country including a gold medal issued by Congress in 1909.
> Starting in 1909 there were air races with 10 or 20 pilots competing.
>
> So, you would think the controversy would end, wouldn't you? Nope. I have
> newspaper accounts and books describing events as late as 1912, where, for
> example, a person showed up with an airplane packed into railroad shipping
> containers in a Midwestern city, and advertised he would demonstrate
> flights before a paying crowd. He was arrested for fraud. The citizens
> threatened to tar and feather him because "everyone knows people can't
> fly." They sheriff told the pilot to get out of town in the dead of night.
> Apparently the citizens of that city thought the national press coverage
> was, in modern parlance, "fake news." They did not trust those big city
> newspapers.
>
> You see similar disbelief and opposition to things like self-driving cars
> today. There are many unfounded and hysterical claims about them. Someone
> in the comment section at the N. Y. Times said that a terrorist might use a
> self-driving car to drive on the sidewalk and mow down pedestrians, and it
> would not be the terrorist's fault because the robot is in charge.
> Obviously, the cars are programmed not to leave the road or run down
> anyone! Another letter claimed that thousands of self-driving cars on the
> New Jersey Turnpike might suddenly to exit to the island Service Centers.
> The letter writer seemed to think they might pile on top of one-another in
> a gigantic demolition derby, trying to occupy the same parking spaces.
> Again, obviously, a robot car that can drive in traffic would not try to
> park in a spot that was already taken. Such objections resemble one of the
> main objections made by scientists circa 1908 who did not believe airplanes
> were possible: "even if you can fly, there is no way to slow down and land
> safely." These people apparently never watched a pigeon turn up its 

Re: [Vo]:Ross E-Cat QX demo Nove 24

[Alain Sepeda]

it would be easy with a COP of 50 propose a convincing blackbox test.
On input side, put a battery of limited power/energy, then add a power
supply (inverter, step-up converted... ask Maxim) of fair efficiency, and
on the other warm  simple thing, like boiling tea, melting ice.

it is not convincing with 30% XH, but for 5% XH, even a donkey can show
it works.



2017-11-26 21:26 GMT+01:00 Jed Rothwell :

> Adrian Ashfield  wrote:
>
>
>> The measurements of energy out & in were good enough to demonstrate the
>> basic characteristics of the QX.
>>
>
> The measurements were bogus. They revealed nothing.
>
>
>
>>   That was the purpose of the demo.  I t would be impossible to to do a
>> replicable experiment without giving the IP away.
>>
>
> The opposite is true. It would have easier to do a pure black box
> demonstration with a watt-meter. Assuming the effect is real, that would be
> more convincing and yet it would reveal less information about the device.
>
>
>
>> The pathosskeptics make much of the crude power pack with 60 W of cooling
>> But I don't believe that power could be magically transferred to heat the
>> water.
>>
>
> That is absurd. No one makes that claim. The power pack is producing a
> great deal of heat. Therefore it must be consuming a great deal of power.
> How much? We have no idea, but a simple watt-meter such as the Kill-a-watt
> would have revealed this. However inefficient the power supply may be, it
> is not likely to be putting out only a tiny fraction of the input power to
> the device.
>
>
>
>>   What could Rossi possibly get from such a scam?  It's not to get money
>> from the general public but possibly to interest venture capitalists: they
>> would do their own due diligence, such as measuring the voltage across the
>> reactor.
>>
>
> Rossi aims to swindle foolish wealthy venture capitalists, not the general
> public. Foolish venture capitalists such as the people who wasted $120
> million Juicero:
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/sep/01/juicero-silicon-valley-
> shutting-down
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Time travel with Google books

[Alain Sepeda]

I learned science as a kid with a book (La science, ses progrès,ses
applications) that was written in the 19030s and updated in the 50-60s.
You could feel the wind of history from the Ancient amber to the
Magnetron... I'm shocked today by the historical ignorance that a kid of 15
have broke just by reading books, and hearing dad.

It is clearly a phase, a depresive phase, where people a rejecting
technology, raison Malthusian myths like every gfew generation when poor
get richer and start to frighten the lords, who teach their subjects the
technology who bring barbarians is the cause of all evil.

When rich activist teach the African what they should do about food,
ignoring what is starvation (unlike the African and my dad), I'm afraid.

This is where the elder should restore the values... the Promethean values
(I've read recently this Greek myth to my daughter, very disruptive in
today's mindset... not sure it would be allowed to read in in school today).

Today some activists propose to end democracy becase it cannot do what they
want, and the worst of all, is they have a tribune in a promeminent
newspaper in sweden give a tribune to that
https://www.svd.se/demokratin-maste-pausas-for-att-losa-klimatkrisen

I'm sad LENR does not grow, but even without LENR we could make the world
happy and wealthy, reasonably clean and free...


but what i see, especially those pretending to save the world, make me
deeply afraid.
Hopefull, in india, Africa, i see hope.. maybe my depression is only a
Western depression... anyway, i see that Western (and Arab) depression have
impact in Indonesia, at the crossing of two anti-promethean memeplex.



2017-11-15 0:05 GMT+01:00 Jed Rothwell :

> I have this book on my shelf:
>
> Editor T. White, "Our Wonderful Progress, The World's Triumphant Knowledge
> and Works," (1902). 768 pages.
>
> It turns out the complete text is now available at Google books:
>
> https://books.google.com/books?id=ixgBoRvrwmoC=
> frontcover=gbs_ge_summary_r=0#v=onepage=false
>
> Have a look. You will see how the public viewed technology and progress in
> 1902. I think this was a popular book, because printed copies are widely
> available today from used bookstores for around $50. You will see the
> extent to which ordinary people understood technology and basic science.
>
> This was an optimistic era, as described by Walter Lord:
>
> The spirit of an era can’t be blocked out and measured, but it is there
> nonetheless. And in these brief, buoyant years it was a spark that somehow
> gave extra promise to life. By the light of this spark, men and women saw
> themselves as heroes shaping the world, rather than victims struggling
> through it.
>
> (Quoted by me: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJcomparison.pdf)
>
> This world fell apart in 1914. As British Foreign Sec. Edward Grey said
> then: "The lamps are going out all over Europe: we shall not see them lit
> again in our life-time." He was right. We have never recovered, and perhaps
> we never will. I doubt that mankind will ever be so blithely optimistic
> again, or so willing to trust in science, technology and progress. Perhaps
> that is a good thing.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Self-driving shuttle crashes in Las Vegas hours after launch

[Alain Sepeda]

There is a naivety in many automatic cars, that the old bike driver (vehicular
cycling schoo l
I am quickly lost.
This is the second time (previous was Google car facing an non
collaborating bus), an automatic car assume collaboration and empathy from
a professional driver.

A study from franche transportation labs (INRETS) studied acciodents and
found huge majority involve both vehicles, even the one assumed to be
innocent. usual case is one violating by abuse or mistake a rule, and the
other seeing and refusing the hijack causing the accident.

I suspect with automatic vehicle, the problem is too much theory.

2017-11-09 3:20 GMT+01:00 H LV :

> https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/8/16626224/las-vegas-self-
> driving-shuttle-crash-accident-first-day
>
>
> While it was technically the fault of the truck driver and not the fault
> of the self-driving shuttle, if the self driving shuttle had been
> programmed to allow it to back up the collision could have been prevented.
>
> Harry
>

Re: [Vo]:Robots to replace writers.

[Alain Sepeda]

people who says industrialisation lead to poverty, don't know how deeply
poor were farmers, most of the population, befre they decided to escape
starvation by working hard in factories, in awful but less awful situation.

Just my dad in the 50s at 20yo lost half of his friends because of
diseases, accidents, and war, in situation that can be avoided today.
.

this is what happened recently in china, making the rate of extreme poverty
move from majority to minority of humanity in few decades.

The Chinese wife of a friend proposed to her husband to sell one or two
kids and keep one, to be able to feed the family... she was happy it was
not needed and her husband was a fantastic man to state he could feed
everybody

We the rich, even if people say we are poor and exploited, cannot
understand what is reality of the past.
This is not a surprise that past culture were more fatalistic and
respectful of hierarchy than today, because there was no escape, whatever
you did.
If you wer not born in th right place, the only future was going to
america, where you have a better chance not to starve, or be locked in a
planned life like your dad.
We also idealize awful culture, defending theocratic slavery regime against
more modern totalitarianism.

AI is not replacing humans, more than donkey do. from the view of a
Nepaleses hired back, a donkey replace you if you are not owning the donkey.
AI, as Jed says, is back to the situation of the 1990s when I worked on it
(No surprise Yann LeCun is a leader, he was our reference in 1985 - he is
very modest today , criticizin both enthusiam and fears facing his dayli
reality with stupid AI). More TB andTFlops, but same wisdom as in the 80s,
if not less.
(my colleagues were using semantic networks and network pattern matching to
detect events in press news).
We don't nee to train the full population to make AI, as we don't need to
teach the population to develop compilers. we need to teach people to
exploit the AI, and all opportunities of modern technology, and if
something is to be shared it is the freedom to invest and innovate.
This last point make me sad as we are going reverse in the colapsing West.

If you are followinn what happen in emerging countries, you see that they
are quite good at exploiting technology. No surprise big corps like IBM
create "inverted innovation" centers in Africa, and follow what happen in
China or Indonesia.

See how Gojek mixed Uber idea with traditional Ojek (unstructured popular
mopped taxi)...



2017-10-14 4:30 GMT+02:00 Daniel Rocha :

> Jed, I did not say that something is narrow, only. I said that there is an
> accumulation of narrow techniques that accumulate. We, humans, along many
> animals, do have many of these mechanisms of patter recognition, such as
> overall syntax, face identification, sexual orientation, some sense of
> beauty regarding a few symmetric things, following objects with the eyes,
> finding boundaries in a landscape. Or, applying techniques to games and so
> on.To tell you the truth, I am not sure if we are just reproducing these
> automatic mechanism,by adding them bit by bit and if they will lead to a
> contextual understanding of things.  But, I am kind of skeptical.
>

Re: [Vo]:Robots to replace writers.

[Alain Sepeda]

it seems some histocical perspective is required to understand all is
normal.

Inflation is a recent phénomenon, and for example 19th century was veru
deflationist.
in fact it is not so important as purchase power get better because of cost
reduction.
This si what sharing economy, in fact the hidden capitalism of average and
poor people, is doing reducing costs, making you richer with less money.

http://www.libertylawsite.org/2017/09/29/how-the-sharing-economy-helps-the-middle-class-by-enlivening-capital/

AI and robots are not more disruptive than horses were.
I've heard of the luddite war in nepal agains donkeys, to keep employement
of human donkey...
rational becausein that traditional society there are obstacle to acquire
capital for the lower caste.

http://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/capitalisms-assault-on-the-indian-caste-system

not a surprise that communisme flourished in a locked society like Russia
or China, in colonial zone like Indochina, in corrupted banana republic
like Cuba, and not where it was created in Britain.




2017-10-13 20:15 GMT+02:00 Daniel Rocha :

> Things are not so simple, as I see it. I don't see the actual China as
> socialist or communist, nor I see them returning to a socialist path. This
> will become clear later, though this is a very very rough explanation.
> Things do not really get cheap because they are more abundantly produced
> (now I am putting my point of view in this whole thing, which is not really
> standard) because money (gold or precious metals) or value in circulation
> (I am not counting credit/debt here) also decreases because labor employed
> in industry (the source) decreases accordingly. So, there is less and less
> money to expend, credit, instead, expands, and thus debt, because it just
> cannot be payed. Sectors of economy become glut and bubbles are created.
>
> Pegging money to something of value is also not good. Eventually, it is
> not enough to keep track of the quantity of things produced, so stagflation
> happens. Just printing money is also not good, it leads to hyperinflation.
> A socialist system, ideally, do not have such problems because money is
> used as grants or as a mean of accounting. This is possible because there
> is no accumulation of money in the hand of few. But, the world is not
> ideal, simply because all countries need to trade and the world is nearly
> all capitalist. So, what happens is that there is a need to accumulate
> reserves, which generally leads to stagnation. Both USSR and USA suffered
> from this problem starting in the 70s, but USA could alleviate the problem
> with the Volker shock, that is, letting credit abound, multiplying
> reserves. Not so much USSR, given its ideological compromise. Straying off
> this path led to its doom. Many countries of East Europe acquired large
> debts with IMF, which led them, in a way or another, to bankrupt. Look for
> the total debt of countries (not just public only, money flows indent of
> ownership)you will see that they all of them explode starting around 1980.
> Soon, shit will hit the fan.
>
> China is different case though. It could save itself by crippling the
> economic conditions on the countryside and making people start to cities,
> where they could provide cheap work for industries. So, Chinese leadership
> deliberately sabotaged the most basic epithets of socialism in order to
> stay in power.  They have been trying to improve the conditions on the
> countryside in the last few years, though, in order to avoid rebellions in
> the city. Wages raised and so unemployment. The labor is not so cheap
> anymore, it's getting close to Mexico, officially.
>
> There has been some attempt, though not conscious, in setting something
> similar to precious metal. Crypt currencies somehow are equivalent to mine,
> where value comes labor employed through maintenance of servers or that
> employed in the electric system. But, the value it seems, I am not sure if
> it is regulated by the market, unlike with precious metals. There is a
> certain scarcity factor that is introduce to make mining more difficult, I
> cannot, right now see this as really equivalent to a real mine running out.
> In any case, fluctuations make it not suitable for the people in general to
> trade. Like with precious metal, there should be some kind of "bank notes",
> or some similar thing to avoid fluctuations.
>

[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Google’s AI is Learning to Make Other AI

[Alain Sepeda]

there are already software, using advance mathematical technique to replace
programmer who code software with assembler, even for parallel code.

We call that compilers, and I use it, even if there was hard resistance at
the beginning.
This did not kill IT work, who now develop complex system with real time
optimizer executing bytecode created from specifications...

the future of AI is like the future of donkey, that you use one to help you
earn your life.

the tragedy of AI, like the tragedy of donkey, would be that common people
refuse to buy a share of an AI, to run an AI, to exploit an AI, and prefer
to stay subordinate of a boss.


By the way sometime I think that using an AI to replace a journalist would
improve the results, because sometime I see "journal de reference" behave
worst than Breitbart News or facebook algorithm, because they are more
activists than relays and analysts.

When you see what have been the blackswan TOP50, I suspect that an AI would
be more creative than many producers, or at least less expensive for same
result.
Best producer for me is the audience.


2017-10-11 8:09 GMT+02:00 Axil Axil :

> https://futurism.com/googles-ai-is-learning-to-make-other-ai/
>
> Google’s AI is Learning to Make Other AI
>
> "Even more, as this development indicates, not just low-skill jobs are on
> the chopping block. There are currently AI systems being developed that can
> replace film editors
> 
> , songwriters
> 
> , journalists
> ,
> and much more. And now, with AI that is capable of creating AI better than
> humans, we all need to be a little more observant and aware of what’s on
> the horizon."
>

Re: [Vo]:Another casualty of Rossigate?

[Alain Sepeda]

did anyone notice Anthropocene Institute no more talk of LENR
and that lenararies memo disappeared?

beside that there is earlier casualties of the Doral fiasco, some who could
but have not been funded waiting for the trial to end positively.

2017-09-09 21:38 GMT+02:00 JonesBeene :

> It is not difficult to find funding if you have results. Vinod Khosla, a
> Forbes billionaire and successful venture capitalist, says that he actually
> looks for disruptive technology as his main parameter. Of course, it must
> work, as the primary ingredient.
>
>
>
> Rossi is a scam artist who deserves no credit. In fact he is most
> fortunate not to have been prosecuted for false filings under oath - in US
> Federal Court - concerning the fraudulent JM shell company. According to
> IH, this and parts of his deposition constituted criminal perjury - and he
> is not in the clear on that yet, nor is his attorney. They may be thinking
> the bad-weather gods for Irma.
>
>
>
> As for Etiam – they did raise R money in Finland and built a prototype,
> but apparently this device could not perform as hoped, and the funding was
> dropped. Same with CoolEssence.
>
>
>
> Had Rossi been able to prove in court that he had anything valuable at all
> in the way of positive results - then more than likely, Etiam and
> CoolEssence could have been in line for more R funding despite their
> failures … but essentially, what has happened to many researchers is that
> Rossi has essentially “poisoned the well.”
>
>
>
> Very little funding for LENR is out there now. That is why Mizuno is seen
> as somewhat of a savior for the field. Maybe Khosla will have a look – if
> and when Mizuno is replicated.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail  for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *Adrian Ashfield 
>
>
>
> "On the other hand, it never fails to amaze us how difficult it is to find
> funding for the development of disruptive technology"
>
> But rather than credit Rossi with finding funding you blame him for others
> failing to do so.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: JonesBeene
>
> http://ocasapiens-dweb.blogautore.repubblica.it/2017/09/08/fuf-rip/
>
>
>
> BTW – here is Etiam’s patent filing, present status unknown due to the
> company’s demise.
>
>
>
> https://www.google.com/patents/US20150162104
>
>
>
> It mentions both Rossi and Holmlid but is a different take.
>
>
>
> There could be value there.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:guaranteed pay

[Alain Sepeda]

I'm not against basic income, but it remind me the problem of Sherpa
transporters when they blocked all Nepal because of Donkey's competition.

the problem was not the donkeys, but that they could not buy a donkey, or
would not be allowed to buy a donkey, won't be allowed to gage their house
for a donkey, wopuld not even imagien they could exploit a donkey instead
of being exploited.

the answer to robot revolution is to become an exploiter of robots, not a
desperate man sad not to be exploited anymore.

An easy solution to replacement of labor by capital, a great improvement
that allwo us to be happier because of our parents work, is to allow
capital dissemination...
worker shareholding, entrepreneurship, allowing deconcentration by
technology revolution...
Concentration is the problem, not capital replacing labor.

Capital in peaceful low growth time have a natural tendency to concentrate,
especially if you protect people from risk and punish mistakes (mummies
economy), and it finish with the strongest taking a growing share of a
diminishing cake, until the desperate poors slaughter the richers.

Another solution was war, destroying mass of capital, established position,
old regulations, tycoons and corporations, allowing new technology and new
organization to be required to rebuild the country, launching a positive
flywheel or innovation with richest keeping their old wealth and happily
stagnating, and poorest getting richer because they have no choice than to
try the new technology, the new works, the new organizations...

In fact a good technology revolution can reshuffle the game like a war, if
the elite are too incompetent to embrace it, and too slow to block it.

Sadly the second point is failing today, as our elite, thanks to democracy
and quasi-religious lobbies, is blocking all technology change but the less
disruptive...

Even AirBnb and uberPop are blocked in paris, beside cold fusion, Emdrive,
GMO, notill farming, AI, Blockchain finance, even immunization and
scientific medecine... at least this is in Western countries...

in china, the memory of real starvation and millions of death probably make
people more daring to escape from poverty. This is the chinese escaping
from starvation who made the planet reduce extreme poverty by an order of
magnitude in a few decades.

Maybe finally that is what i say, that the chinese poors will replace the
western rich who don't understand modern technology...




2017-09-05 15:23 GMT+02:00 Lennart Thornros :

> I think this is a solution. All the rambling about that jobs disappear to
> China, to robots etc. does very little to solve the problem.
> I guess the Republican Party believe this is violates their basic
> philosophy. In reality it is just right on their philosophy. It takes care
> of
> the problem we face when being human (i.e. giving healthcare to uninsured)
> conflicts the rules, it gives freedom to persuade your personal goals.
> I think that it should be combined with limitations in inheritance. There
> are few logical reasons for a distribution based on an agriculture
> society. I think it is hard to find a good solution to inheritance because
> of long time indoctrination. Nothing says that a will or an old law provide
> a fair solution. If society provides the basic human rights, then there is
> little need to take care of the offspring after you are dead. Thus dead
> people's assets could be argued to belong to the community. The problem is
> that to let the political entities take over will make the assets
> detoriate. See communism, everybody owns it but it is nobody's
> responsibility. In my opinion a good solution with today's measurements of
> how to handle the inheritance, can make the way for this idea with basic
> income. It is also solving the problem with 'how to fund the reform' and
> the debate about the one percent.
> Lennart
> On Sep 4, 2017 20:53, "Axil Axil"  wrote:
>
> https://phys.org/news/2017-09-robots-jobs-spurs-bold-idea.html
>
> Fear of robots taking jobs spurs a bold idea: guaranteed pay
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Why Rossi 'won'

[Alain Sepeda]

no need to swap powder, just need to put some other before the test, that
will be mixed.
anyway the behavior of Rossi during the test, shows either incompetent
fraud, or incredible manipulation to look as a fraudster, and deter the
investor.

The important point about Lugano is not the evident mistake on emissivity
(band vs full), but that it was not seriously answered, by credible
explanation, by other tests... against either it is just a fraud, or a
manipulation to look like a fraud.

In both case I'm sad.

2017-07-28 21:25 GMT+02:00 bobcook39...@hotmail.com <
bobcook39...@hotmail.com>:

> Alain--
>
>
>
> You suggest that the poor Swedish and Italian professors doing the Lugano
> test  ash evaluation were fooled by a mysterious swap of “ash” by Rossin or
> an accomplice at the end of the test.
>
>
>
> With all due respect I do not agree.
>
>
>
> To prepare a fake ash sample would be very difficult with known technology
> IMHO.  This conclusion  reflects the highly skewed isotopic ratios of Ni
> reported by the professors..
>
>
>
> Bob Cook
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Alain Sepeda <alain.sep...@gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Thursday, July 27, 2017 10:40 PM
> *To: *Vortex List <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [Vo]:Why Rossi 'won'
>
>
>
> This is a key point to rule out the theories of Rossi's defenders.
>
> If IH was sincere, and enthusiastic as it is clear, this remove the
> theories that they tried to fake a negative result. What was fake was the
> methods, like in Lugano.
>
>
>
> Even if you swallow the theories that it works, the way the test was
> conducted would have been manipulated to deter the investor, and defraud
> him of his intellectuel property.
>
> As Rossi said about the way he pretend to have deterred a Swedish team, it
> would be a "magnificence". I don't swallow that theory, but even if true,
> it is even more disgusting.
>
>
>
> I have been fooled, and the skeptic can play it easy to say we were warned
> by past results and never coming serious test. I don't regret as it was to
> verify, but we have the verification, BASTA!
>
>
>
> only thing more painful than to be fooled is to be attacked when you face
> reality, by more fooled than me, and by friends and respected people, among.
>
>
>
> LENR is a fractal tragedy. a fractal fiasco.
>
> Some LENR supporters are not more scientific and realist than Huizenga or
> Parks.
>
>
>
> It have to stop.
>
>
>
> as you can read elsewhere I see the only exit in making PdD research with
> modern instrumentation as used in accumulator technology research.
>
> This is my model for what woudl be a good LENR research:
>
> https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms14020
>
>
>
> I have few doubt we can move to NiH for industrial applications, and I
> even hope we can move to biological LENR, graphene, or many metal alloys,
> but first need to to have a theory, and my sad opinion is we need to
> temporarily throw out theorists and physicists, until there is much data
> they can work on. Urgency is for chemists and nanoscience experts.
>
>
>
>
>
> 2017-07-28 1:09 GMT+02:00 Eric Walker <eric.wal...@gmail.com>:
>
>
>
>
>
> There is further corroborating evidence to suggest that IH were sincere,
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Why Rossi 'won'

[Alain Sepeda]

This is a key point to rule out the theories of Rossi's defenders.
If IH was sincere, and enthusiastic as it is clear, this remove the
theories that they tried to fake a negative result. What was fake was the
methods, like in Lugano.

Even if you swallow the theories that it works, the way the test was
conducted would have been manipulated to deter the investor, and defraud
him of his intellectuel property.
As Rossi said about the way he pretend to have deterred a Swedish team, it
would be a "magnificence". I don't swallow that theory, but even if true,
it is even more disgusting.

I have been fooled, and the skeptic can play it easy to say we were warned
by past results and never coming serious test. I don't regret as it was to
verify, but we have the verification, BASTA!

only thing more painful than to be fooled is to be attacked when you face
reality, by more fooled than me, and by friends and respected people, among.

LENR is a fractal tragedy. a fractal fiasco.
Some LENR supporters are not more scientific and realist than Huizenga or
Parks.

It have to stop.

as you can read elsewhere I see the only exit in making PdD research with
modern instrumentation as used in accumulator technology research.
This is my model for what woudl be a good LENR research:
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms14020

I have few doubt we can move to NiH for industrial applications, and I even
hope we can move to biological LENR, graphene, or many metal alloys, but
first need to to have a theory, and my sad opinion is we need to
temporarily throw out theorists and physicists, until there is much data
they can work on. Urgency is for chemists and nanoscience experts.


2017-07-28 1:09 GMT+02:00 Eric Walker :

>
>
> There is further corroborating evidence to suggest that IH were sincere,
>

Re: [Vo]:MFMP activities

[Alain Sepeda]

more generally correlation of complex signal mean uch more than just
signal, one shot corelation, of simple/regular signal corrélation.

correlating two ramp, two exponential is nearly meaningless (this is
however often published in newspapers - some correlated increase of organic
food production and autism declaration in US).

correlating oscillations is better, but it can just be loosely synchonizeed
signal and random luck.

best is output correlated to an irregular, random output.

correlation however can be real but linked to a classical phenomenon. eg
heat out from heat in may be related but just normally. so correlation
between things that should not, even through artifact, is meaningful.

He4/Heat correlation is thousands time more convincing than calorimetry
alone or mass spectrometry alone.

multiple independent instruments are also more convincing than just two.

2017-07-16 2:34 GMT+02:00 Jed Rothwell :

> Kevin O'Malley  wrote:
>
>>
>
>> There is no known chemical interaction that leads to
>> hydrogen/deuterium generating gammas when mixed with nickel/palladium.
>>   Even if there is no excess heat, it MUST be a nuclear phenomena.
>>
>
> People familiar these detectors tell me that a one-off event that does not
> repeat is probably an instrument glitch, or an extraterrestrial event. We
> can't say it MUST be a nuclear phenomenon until we see it happen often,
> with multiple instruments and things like TOF verification.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Picking up the pieces

[Alain Sepeda]

from recent data, taking any conclusion on Rossi's claims is at best risky,
and to be honest, baseless.

2017-07-07 3:01 GMT+02:00 Axil Axil :

> What the Rossi experiments has shown over many years is that LENR in a
> lattice is not workable because the reaction cannot be controlled. This
> lack of control makes the E-Cat technology untenable. Rossi has
> realized this and Rossi is will to let this knowhow fadeaway. The LENR
> reaction wants to operate at the boiling point of the metal lattice
> (nickel) which is 3000K. LENR is based on activation of nanoparticles in a
> dusty plasma. Rossi has struggled to control the LENR reaction at low
> temperatures but he always fails because LENR would invariably get to 3000K
> and meltdown his reactor. So Rossi finally decided to use reactor
> structural material that doesn't melt at 3000K. This material must be an
> insulator that does not melt at 3000K. Mills has stumbled on the same
> reaction and his SunCell runs at the vapor point of silver at only 2200C.
> Mills has solved the meltdown problem is another way, he justs runs
> everything as a liquid without any containment. Holmlid is on to the same
> LENR mechanism. There is nothing unusual with metalized hydrogen. In the
> LENR reaction, metalized hydrogen acts like any
> other metallic nanoparticle.
>
>
> Using a lattice for LENR is a losing proposition. The dusty plasma
> approach to the LENR reaction is the only way to go. I beleive that Rossi
> has settled on a high temperature  tube material that works: boron nitride,
> a transparent isolator whose melting point is 3000C.
>
>
> Alan Smith wrote:
> 
>
> *I do remember. BTW, eye witness accounts claim that the tube itself is
> transparent, and the electrodes bright silver colour. nothing is visible in
> the gap. I have no idea about sealing or anything else - except that the
> plasma can apparently be made 'any colour you like'. The example shown was
> glowing **yellow** when energised for short periods. That's all the info
> I have.*
>
>
> Unlike most other observers of Rossi, I know that the QuarkX works because
> its reported behavior fits in with my understanding of how LENR works.
>
>
> For example:
>
>
> New research into polariton condensates has revealed a side emission
> channel that produces light whose frequency is proportional to the density
> of the polariton aggregation...for example, the dense polariton condinsate
> produces a higher frequency light (blue) and a less dense condinsate will
> produce red light. Rossi must have a way to control the density of the
> polariton population.
>
>
> See
>
>
> https://phys.org/news/2016-06-…einstein-condensates.html
> 
>
>
> They tackled this problem by highly exciting exciton-polaritons, which are
> particle-like excitations in a semiconductor systems and formed by strong
> coupling between electron-hole pairs and photons. *They observed
> high-energy side-peak emission *that cannot be explained by two
> mechanisms known to date: Bose-Einstein condensation of exciton-polaritons,
> nor conventional semiconductor lasing driven by the optical gain from
> unbound electron hole plasma.
>
>
>
> The details on this side channel are here
>
>
> https://www.nature.com/articles/srep25655
> High-energy side-peak emission of exciton-polariton condensates in high
> density regime
>
> In summary, eyewitness reports of QuarkX operating characteristics fit my
> technical expectations perfectly in very many ways.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:
>
>> According to Abd... "All claims dropped on both sides. It is as if the
>> suit was never filed. All parties bear their own costs. The action of the
>> Agreement was the consent of counsel to settlement without any court order
>> other than dismissal, which is final."
>>
>> No agreements were included... so unless they present something otherwise
>> in a joint statement, IH retains the original E-Cat License. No money
>> changes hands.
>>
>> As for the future of the litigants, it looks like IH paid about $11
>> million ++ for a License which according to them is worthless insofar as it
>> was never shown to produce excess heat. Add to that the attorney fees and
>> we see why many observers consider IH to be the big loser in this.
>>
>> That assumes the IP is really worthless, but it may have value in a
>> surprising way, even if Rossi could never make it work. Here is the granted
>> patent, and there are a number of applications not granted.
>>
>> https://www.google.com/patents/US9115913
>>
>> Darden raised much more than his losses on the Rossi fiasco and there is
>> a small chance that he could make lemonade out of the Rossi lemons, using
>> some of it. An interesting development in all of this will be the course
>> 

Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled

[Alain Sepeda]

I with the crook will be prevented to be a nuisance again...
whoever you think it is (I have an opinion).

2017-07-05 18:50 GMT+02:00 Daniel Rocha :

> So much drama for nothing...
>

Re: [Vo]:Rossi v. Darden

[Alain Sepeda]

the report is not so convincing, except it have no value, a joke for the
most kind.
what is convincing, like for Lugano and DGT Milano, is that absence of any
serious and credible answer.
For me at this stage, it is definitive.

if Rossi have something, he sure have lied and manipulated his partners
beyond what the worst startup diva can do.
Anyone who support the possibility that Rossi have a technology have to
realize what he have done to his partners.

Of course if there is nothing, except repeated ideas coming from we
community, all is more simple and logical.

2017-06-30 3:44 GMT+02:00 Jed Rothwell :

> Jones Beene  wrote:
>
>>
>> Whoa. The ERV report is not really self-evident proof of anything to a
>> jury - other than that it supposedly provides a basis for Penon's
>> conclusion. These are average citizens who don't do data, so to speak.
>>
>
> I hope you are wrong about that, but I know nothing about trials and
> juries, so I cannot judge.
>
>
>
>> A top scientist could believe what you state, and I suspect that 95 out
>> of 100 scientists might agree with you.
>>
>
> More like 999,999 out of a million I think. As Smith showed, anyone who
> agrees the laws of thermodynamics are valid will see this is fraud.
>
> I meant that technically knowledgeable people will see that the Penon
> report describes a blatant fraud. I don't know about the man on the street.
> Obviously, as we see here and at some web sites, there are people who have
> heard of the laws of thermodynamics yet who still believe in Rossi. They
> are in thrall to him. Wishful thinking has overwhelmed their ability to
> think rationally and do junior-high-school physics.
>
> It seems that Rossi has spent his adult life cultivating such people and
> then stealing from them. Unfortunately, in the course of doing this, he may
> have destroyed the last hope of funding for cold fusion. Unless the Texas
> Tech project pans out, this time cold fusion may be gone for good. It will
> be forgotten.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

[Alain Sepeda]

Is there usually some Mn in Constantan too ?
It may be key ingredient, as for alpha-beta phase frontiere, it change
critical temperature like Ag on Pd...

2017-06-20 23:30 GMT+02:00 Bob Higgins :

> If you want Ni + Cu, just get some constantan thermocouple wire and cut it
> up into pieces.  Then you may want to ball mill to make into powder.
>
> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 2:43 PM,  wrote:
>
>> In reply to  AlanG's message of Mon, 19 Jun 2017 23:22:32 +:
>> Hi Alan,
>>
>> You might also try with Cu instead of silver, if your budget extends that
>> far.
>> Since the creation of the powders takes some time, you could do both in
>> parallel?
>>
>> >Nickel and Silver are mutually insoluble (or only with great difficulty)
>> >as has been pointed out. Following Jones' original post, I'm preparing a
>> >simple experiment to test "mechanical alloying". I will ball-mill ~2 um
>> >powders of the two metals for several hundred hours, using 3/8" tungsten
>> >carbide balls for media. SEM/EDS will be used to examine the resulting
>> >mixture.
>> >
>> >If the results appear to be successful, a further test will be done by
>> >exposing the amalgam to flowing hydrogen at various temperatures,
>> >looking for radiation as a signature of nuclear activity. Advice and
>> >suggestions for this test are welcome.
>> >
>> >AlanG
>> >
>> Regards,
>>
>> Robin van Spaandonk
>>
>> http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

[Alain Sepeda]

his framework to propose NiMn is absolutely not nucler, but about the phase
transition graph.
The idea behind is that if you use PdAg or NiMn you can load hydrogen (D/H)
with less damage in the crystaline lattice at lower temperature.

when Ag and Mn reduce a threshold temperature, above whiche phase
transition is smoother and there is less damage in the latice.

It may be coherent with Ed Storms theory, and his hypothesis that big
cracks are bad, and compete with smaller cracks that are however required,
and maybe produced by alpha-beta transition, but the smoother version...

all is about metallurgy.

2017-06-14 15:17 GMT+02:00 Jones Beene <jone...@pacbell.net>:

> Thanks. There is interesting information there.
>
> Armanet suggests that an equivalent of PdAg for LENR could be NiMn (as
> opposed to NiAg). Apparently this relates to a similarity in geometric
> spacing in the crystal.
>
> This equivalency may assume that the only purpose of the silver is to
> mechanically stabilize the matrix, which may not be the ultimate benefit of
> the alloy - if silver also is reactive for the nuclear tunneling of
> hydrogen.
>
> In terms of the active mechanism for gain, the emphasis on phase change by
> Armanet could open up an alternative mechanism. That would be coupling of
> nuclear spin/isospin to phase change.
>
>
>
>  Alain Sepeda wrote:
>
>> Nicolas Armanet talking of alpha-beta transition in Pd discussed Ni
>> during RNBE2016.
>>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:"Type A nickel" ?

[Alain Sepeda]

Nicolas Armanet talking of alpha-beta transition in Pd discussed Ni during
RNBE2016.
Ag in Pd alloy reduce one transition temperature in the alpha-beta phase
curve.
Ther is an equivalent for Ni, but I don't remember if it is Mn or Mg...

I noticed also that constantan contain Ni, Cu, but also one of Mn or Mg
(forgot which again)...
I've discussed on LENR forum when talking of RNBE2016...

2017-06-14 0:34 GMT+02:00 Jones Beene :

> Much has been said about Type A palladium and its special reactivity with
> hydrogen, some of which is due to the alloy being one fourth silver. Since
> pure palladium doesn't work as well, it might be said that most of the
> reactivity seen in cold fusion has been due to the special properties of
> the alloy, which is a 3:1 ratio (75% Pd 25% Ag).
>
> In many ways, nickel can be considered to be a surrogate of palladium.
> Nickel resides directly under Pd in the Periodic table, and has an
> identical valence electron structure. This leads one to wonder about an
> alloy of nickel and silver, based on transposing the results of cold fusion
> to protium, instead of deuterium.
>
...

Re: [Vo]: MFMP starting to test me356' reactor today

[Alain Sepeda]

measuring the RF ambiance with an oscilloscope can raise red flags.
imprecise indirect measurement are often good cross check

Nothing is fool proof individually but if the testers  improve their tests
and cross check with simple measurement (like kill-a-watt at the socket,
electricity bill, RF ambiance, eye colorimetry, feel the hot air ,
thermocouple, thermal gun).
against fraud the best is to have an unpredictable protocol with cross
checking, and don't accept bad excuses.
against good faith errors, just many crosschecking is enough, and try to
understand deeply when things are not what they should.
a good protocol should be iterative, integrating critics and questions.
refusing iterations was the errors behind some previous delusion.




2017-05-26 4:36 GMT+02:00 Eric Walker :

> I believe an oscilloscope can also be used to check for high-frequency
> components in the input power waveform.
>
> Eric
>
>

Re: [Vo]: MFMP starting to test me356' reactor today

[Alain Sepeda]

Measuring rich HF signal power is tricky

is it not more easy to measure power at the power supply input, adding good
filters, and why not if paranoid an inverter/UPS or a good old predictable
batteries ?
You lose precision and performance, but at least you are sure it is not HF
tricks..



2017-05-25 14:24 GMT+02:00 Brian Ahern :

> May I make a prediction?
>
>
> When the COP is around 6-8 and the process is plasma  electrolysis, the
> input is invariably under reported.
>
>
> The plasma is actually a series of sporadic arcs. Measuring the I(t)  and
> V(t) simultaneously is impossible for all but the most sophisticated test
> equipment.
>
> If the plasma electrolysis is not in operation, but boiling is; then we
> face the issue of dry versus wet steam which causes errors consonant with a
> COp around 6-8.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> *From:* Adrian Ashfield 
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 25, 2017 3:53 AM
> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
> *Subject:* [Vo]: MFMP starting to test me356' reactor today
>
> Four members of MFMP are in Czechoslovakia and starting to do a black box
> test of me356' reactor.
> It is supposed to be similar to his previous model that has been running
> several months now.
>  It was reported to be ~10 Kw with a COP >6.
>
> See http://www.e-catworld.com/2017/05/23/mfmp-on-site-
> preparing-for-me356-testing/
>

Re: [Vo]:Why Scientists Must Share Their Failures

[Alain Sepeda]

in fact in my school (ESIEE), multilevel neuronal network were fashion
(Yann Lecun was a reference as ancient from the school).
what was limiting was compute power (we were thinking about specialized
hardware mimicking life)...
Experts systems were more applicable, like natural language processing by
deterministic methods (semantic graphs, my colleague worked on that in the
90s until 2k bubble )...
with low computation power, testing was hard too, and small networks don't
work. hard to get popular this way.

finally I get to think solution of statistical methods like google
translate was the future.
it came back as a surprise for me, like AI fashion, and strangely I
rediscover Yann's name.

don't tell me it is new... it is renewed.

It remind me Jed booklet on the future, telling LENR will make robotic
evolve because much of the engineering will be simplified, helping to focus
on AI.



2017-04-17 16:42 GMT+02:00 Jed Rothwell :

> John Berry  wrote:
>
>
>> It might have limited application, but mostly, I don't see it, too often
>> success and failure is just an inch apart.
>>
>
> Yes! That is an important point. Unfortunately, failure is a more likely
> outcome. There are countless way to make an experiment fail, but only a
> narrow range of ways to make it work.
>
> A minor change to an experiment makes it go off the rails and no one
> notices. The example I often point to was Shockley's initial refusal to
> look at zone refining purification. If he had continued to refuse, I doubt
> Bell Labs could have made practical transistors when they did.
>
> Another recent example is the use of computer neural networks in
> artificial intelligence. Going back to the 1950s people had an intuitive
> feeling this should work. It resembles actual biological brains, which we
> know are capable of intelligence. But little progress was made, and the
> approach was ignored or even denigrated during the "AI winter" eras.
> Finally, about 10 years ago, the method was revived and greatly improved by
> using multi-level networks, where one network feed results into another.
> This, finally, produced outstanding results, unlike anything previously
> seen. This is the basis for the program that beat one of the world's best
> go players, and it is the basis for remarkable recent improvements in
> Google translate. See:
>
> https://blog.google/products/translate/found-translation-
> more-accurate-fluent-sentences-google-translate/
>
> This progress also came about because computer hardware is so much faster
> and cheaper. There are many examples of experiments that failed because
> they done before their time. They worked later on after better instruments
> were devised.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

[Alain Sepeda]

color blind in a sea of red flags

It seems some consider that a place wher you can debate is a place where
the enemy have control, especially if he raises a mass of clear evidence
that are very very annoying.

LENR community have to clean it's glasses, like APS have to.

http://www.princeton.edu/~rbenabou/papers/REP_4_BW_nolinks_corrected%201.pdf

Let it be clear that, like most of all people having an opinion, I am paid
by nobody, have no asset invested (unlike Sifferkoll who have clear
conflict of interest, unlike ECW who depend on e-cat).
Lenr-forum is, by luck, branded on LENR, a solidly proven phenomenon, who
scope is however questioned (from proven PdD, to much more like NiH,
biotransmutation, ), and moderators (not me, i don't moderate, sorry)
stuggle with aggressive people on all sides, attacking ad hominem, often
without arguments, or like here with conspiracy theories, because available
facts cannot be defended.

I'm sincerely tired to see how we tolerate scam artist.
I wait for the hanging of a few more.

Suspending you disbelief is a good things (I did that on Rossi for too
long), provided this is not to believe however, but there is a moment where
evidences are so clear, that like a physisict have to admit LENr is a real
phenomenon, we have to admit Rossi manipulated the tests, and Levi failed
to measure heat correctly in Lugano.

As jed says, it seems the domain is expiring slowly despite our unjustified
enthusiasm.
How many good lab professional calorimetry published recently ?
How many modern instruments used to analyse details of the NAE, radiation
emitted, anisotropy and spectrum ?

there are, but so few.
SKINR, ENEA, Coolescence ? and even, what is the real budgets?
I compare their equipments wit the one used to develop next generation of
accumulators, of superconductors, of TEG ...

Most work are done with old equipments, if not kitchen devices, sometime
manipulated by experienced scientists, and sometime just by hobbyists.

Time for spring cleaning.



2017-03-29 23:32 GMT+02:00 a.ashfield <a.ashfi...@verizon.net>:

> I view post modernism as a sick joke, expressed by generally meaningless
> sentences.  Why Puckrose would waste so many words writing about it is a
> puzzle.   Making astroturf has a purpose even if it is evil and for greed.
> AA
>
>
> On 3/29/2017 4:38 PM, Alain Sepeda wrote:
>
> Maybe this is because of the French
> https://areomagazine.com/2017/03/27/how-french-
> intellectuals-ruined-the-west-postmodernism-and-its-impact-explained/
>
> I have the subtle impression some of us live in an information bubble...
> Is it me?
>
>
>
> 2017-03-29 18:14 GMT+02:00 a.ashfield <a.ashfi...@verizon.net>:
>
>> It seems that this forum with Beene, Jed Rothwell et al are doing a
>> pretty good job of "astroturfing"
>> https://youtu.be/-bYAQ-ZZtEU  (Thanks Sifferkoll)
>>
>> See also. http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/why-is-it-important-for-
>> dardenindustrial-heat-to-take-control-of-the-lenr-forum/
>>
>> AA
>>
>>
>> On 3/28/2017 4:00 PM, a.ashfield wrote:
>>
>>> Beene,
>>> What makes you think that is Rossi?
>>> Or do you just lap up fake news?
>>>
>> AA
>>
>>>
>>> On 3/28/2017 3:43 PM, Jones Beene wrote:
>>>
>>>> For anyone needing a smile (and don't we all?) an amazing mystery image
>>>> of the reinvented-inventor has appeared on lenr-forum.com ...
>>>>
>>>> https://www.lenr-forum.com/attachment/1532-17504250-10154451
>>>> 685095794-8147171188661115195-o-jpg/
>>>>
>>>> It's early for jury consultants, but the "Redford look" is in this
>>>> year, or perhaps AR is lecturing new hires at his factory in Miami where
>>>> robotic mass production of the quark-X is underway... no? what about taking
>>>> a break from audition for "Most Interesting Man in the World" beer ad ? Dos
>>>> Equis can relabel it "quark-XX" if he gets the gig?
>>>>
>>>> Stay thirsty my friend...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

[Alain Sepeda]

Maybe this is because of the French
https://areomagazine.com/2017/03/27/how-french-intellectuals-ruined-the-west-postmodernism-and-its-impact-explained/

I have the subtle impression some of us live in an information bubble...
Is it me?



2017-03-29 18:14 GMT+02:00 a.ashfield :

> It seems that this forum with Beene, Jed Rothwell et al are doing a pretty
> good job of "astroturfing"
> https://youtu.be/-bYAQ-ZZtEU  (Thanks Sifferkoll)
>
> See also. http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/why-is-it-important-for-
> dardenindustrial-heat-to-take-control-of-the-lenr-forum/
>
> AA
>
>
> On 3/28/2017 4:00 PM, a.ashfield wrote:
>
>> Beene,
>> What makes you think that is Rossi?
>> Or do you just lap up fake news?
>>
> AA
>
>>
>> On 3/28/2017 3:43 PM, Jones Beene wrote:
>>
>>> For anyone needing a smile (and don't we all?) an amazing mystery image
>>> of the reinvented-inventor has appeared on lenr-forum.com ...
>>>
>>> https://www.lenr-forum.com/attachment/1532-17504250-10154451
>>> 685095794-8147171188661115195-o-jpg/
>>>
>>> It's early for jury consultants, but the "Redford look" is in this year,
>>> or perhaps AR is lecturing new hires at his factory in Miami where robotic
>>> mass production of the quark-X is underway... no? what about taking a break
>>> from audition for "Most Interesting Man in the World" beer ad ? Dos Equis
>>> can relabel it "quark-XX" if he gets the gig?
>>>
>>> Stay thirsty my friend...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

[Vo]:GSVIT review skeptically Report 41 (DeNinno)

[Alain Sepeda]

In Italian, their report
https://gsvit.wordpress.com/2017/01/03/enea-rapporto-41-analisi-e-critica-tecnica-del-contenuto/

I imagine a translation, and some answers will be interesting.

Re: [Vo]:12 years from now

[Alain Sepeda]

AI and multilevel neural network are nothing new.
In 88 when I was student ,  Yann Lecun was a reference in the domain...
Older than Cold Fusion
But the size of the network and the data were too small.
Internet also overtake the priority on AI, Expert System, neural network,
Natural language Processing, and it was followed by Grid computing, Mobile
internet... Statistic translation also
But in fact neural network was discretely integrated in many niche
programs, and deep learning get back in fashion because it could manager,
and worked better, with huge data.
I've met a guy using deep learning, to detect pictures of Luxury good from
French Brand, bought for cheat in France and sold on Alibaba in China...
Facebook is known to detect nudity or forbidden image that way... with some
well known mistake, that i find quite logical.
Google plan to start that to organize anti #fakenews censorship (down
indexation)...

All that could be fantastic if it was not centralized, if you could choose
your censorship ruling, your nudity preferences.

I see two moves for AI evolution.
One, leading to anthropomorphic/animality, is integration of motivation and
feeling/mood into AI in physical devices... the famous Chicken bot of Jed.

Another move is the distribution. AI have the power to be more perfect than
human, so it must stay associated with humans, empowering people, not
controlling them.
the nightmare could be what I see as Google/facebook AI filtering, which
could be more efficient, blind, and totalitarian than the Catholic Church
and it's index. an AI can implement the Law, and all the Law, and this
cannot work.
A, AI designed by Caltech could have made Cold Fusion disapear on earth
like some demand Climate skepicism be banned, and we try to ban nazism or
hate speech.
"Hell is paved with good intents".
I prefer an imperfect earth, and a perfect hell.

In fact like there is many people, there should be any AI, competing,
associated, specialized, with different approach, different tastes,
different strategies, and if possible educated differently by different
people, different culture.
An AI should be always in competition with dissenting AI, a rule of free
market.
No monopoly in ideas, in market, or in AI.






2017-03-16 15:31 GMT+01:00 Jed Rothwell :

> Bob Higgins  wrote:
>
> That is the problem with the work of Futurists - many of the massive
>> changes in our lives comes from seminal inventions whose timing cannot be
>> predicted.  Once that seminal invention is proved, progress from
>> engineering can be rapid, or can be slow, but it usually moves forward.  I
>> think LENR is still in need of at least some seminal understanding that is
>> presently missing.
>>
>
> Definitely it needs this!
>
>
> I believe AI is in a similar state of waiting for that seminal invention
>> that makes AI practical.
>>
>
> I think the breakthrough has already come. In the last few years,
> tremendous progress has been made with multilevel neural networks. This
> technique that made it possible for a computer to beat the world's best go
> player, and it has recently had a tremendous impact on Google translate,
> making it far more like a human translator. This all happened in the last
> several months.
>
> Neural networks were proposed in the 1950s. A lot of work was done on them
> in the 1960s, but not much progress was made. Computers back then were not
> powerful enough to implement an effective version of these networks. I
> think they had roughly as much computing power as an insect brain. The
> biggest computers today have roughly as much power as a bird or mouse brain.
>
> This article shows an interesting animation:
>
> http://www.motherjones.com/media/2013/05/robots-
> artificial-intelligence-jobs-automation
>
> Scroll down to where it says, "how long until computers have the same
> power as the human brain?" They are predicting this will happen around the
> year 2025.
>
> As I said, modern neural networks are multilevel, meaning one network
> interfaces to another, which goes to another, and so on. This is called a
> deep neural network. The original networks were single level. This does not
> work anywhere near as well. The program that won at go has billions of
> individual decision points (artificial neurons), as I recall, in two main
> deep networks, policy and value. Twenty years ago, it would have taken
> weeks or months to run such a gigantic program.
>
> https://gogameguru.com/i/2016/03/deepmind-mastering-go.pdf
>
> https://www.tastehit.com/blog/google-deepmind-alphago-how-it-works/
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Palladium cold fusion as an energy source

[Alain Sepeda]

Whether PdD can fuel the future is maybe a premature question.
I see PdD as a lab-rat technology to investigate the phenomenon and build a
theory.

Once we have the theory, guessing from what I see already, I feel that Pd
won't be required, and could be replaced by nanostructured material...
other metal, alloys, graphene-like structures, why not enzyms, dirty
plasmas, could be more performant.

I compare the situation to the one on semiconductors before we have a
theory.
Germanium, lead oxydes, were the first PN/shottky junctions to works, but
we evolved quickly from germanium, to silicon, then III-V cmpounds
(AsGa,InAs, GaN,...) then SiGe, diamonds...
and technology from junction transitors, to planar, ICs, bipolar to JFET,
MOSFET, VMOS, IGBT... (I'm mixing applications)

just expect the same for LENR

When I was kid I was playing with LED less efficient than incandescent
lamps, no blue... My firs blue les when young adult were so expensive and
weak...
White was pipedream for long.



2017-03-10 0:07 GMT+01:00 Jed Rothwell :

> Someone told me those are Troy ounces, which are heavier than garden
> variety ounce-ounces. Perhaps they also launch a thousand ships. See also
> the millihelen:
>
> "A unit of measure of pulchritude, corresponding to the amount of beauty
> required to launch one ship."
>
>
> Note: this is not included in the Système International d'unités, even
> though that is French.
>
> Okay, let me add there are several conservative assumptions in my estimate
> which I did not enumerate. I am assuming there is practically no
> improvement in related technology, which is silly. For example:
>
> Even with cold fusion central generators, we could have small ones, in 1
> MW range. They could be close to population centers, or in population
> centers where there are now transformers. This would greatly reduce
> transmission and distribution losses (T).
>
> It is unreasonable to assume that thermal conversion efficiency will not
> improve.
>
> The 60% duty cycle may be too conservative. I estimated that from the
> demand for electricity, which falls at night. You cannot turn off a fission
> nuclear plant, but you can turn off natural gas or -- probably -- cold
> fusion, so you probably would. So it would only run 16 hours a day (60%
> duty cycle). However, Elon Musk is now trying to make tremendous numbers of
> batteries very cheaply. If he succeeds, we can leave the cold fusion
> generator on 24-hours a day and store up the electricity. The duty cycle is
> close to 100% and the spreadsheet tells me that's . . . 15% of today's
> electricity in Scenario 1, and 150% in Scenario 2.
>
> Musk is trying to do this so that we can use solar power, or wind power.
> It works out better and cheaper for Pd-D cold fusion power. With Ni or Ti,
> you would not need batteries at all, except for a transient increases in
> demand.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Fukushima much worse than imagined

[Alain Sepeda]

question is the distance,
it is well explained, especially in extremetech article.

there changed the distance, and the measure changed.

anyway, on this subject too, there is bubbles.
I'm tired.


2017-02-18 20:00 GMT+01:00 Jones Beene <jone...@pacbell.net>:

>
> Fear-mongering? LOL. Apparently Alain does not look at the dates of these
> attempts at what are essentially PR, many of which were sanitized and put
> into circulation by TEPCO or their insurance carrier. The company has been
> caught in many outright lies since the accident and this is more of the
> same.
>
> The best response to the "no surprise" article can be paraphrased from the
> comments from others and from common sense. In fact, it is preposterous to
> imagine that the radiation level of more than 530 Sv/hr now measured ...
> "could be expected" given the intervening years and prior levels which were
> low. Do  you understand what this level means so long after the accident?
> Apparently not.
>
> TEPCO reported a previous high reading of 73 Sv/hr soon after the
> accident. That would have been in the "no surprise" category, and
> relatively less than expected (Chernobyl high reading was 200) but the new
> reading is completely off the charts, coming this late. It should have
> dropped every year. That is the biggest problem, it is going the wrong way.
>
> It is a paradigm shift which at worst means that substantial amounts,
> possibly many tons or formerly fertile material (U238) is becoming fissile
> (Pu239) or at least activated in an unknown way. A secondary explosion
> cannot be ruled out since the cores can merge. Thankfully the cores are
> melting their way deeper and deeper into earth, but if the 3 should
> merge... kaboom ... but let's not go there. Google OKLO  a site in Africa
> where natural uranium went critical.
>
> "If the material causing the initial reading (73 Sv/Hr) would have been
> normal nuclear fuel at relatively low enrichment, then that level should
> have gone down by an order of magnitude in the ensuing time. We should be
> seeing no more than 7 Sv/Hr now, BUT instead, it is 500 or 70 times higher
> in one location after almost 6 years.
>
> Thus this high reading was actually totally unexpected by many experts not
> associated with the company. It is essentially 70 times higher than
> expected if representative, and could be worse the deeper one goes (or
> less). As for proof of that dishonesty, consider that the Robots being used
> were designed to withstand 1000 Sv (LIFETIME irradiation until failure)
> which is only two hours at this rate. You would never use them if you were
> "expecting" anything near these levels. Of course they quickly failed and
> this means the rate was a huge surprise.
>
> Had TEPCO expected the 500 Sv level of radiation, as competent engineers
> they would have increased the radiation hardness of the robot by a factor
> of ten in order to get anywhere near the endurance time they needed for a
> meaningful probe. That they did not, completely eliminates their "no
> surprise" BS. They are lying, plain and simple and the robot proves they
> are lying.
>
> Plus, if the high radiation was localized in a small zone, then try to
> explain why the robot remained over that spot so long... and failed
> "prematurely"? Obviously the danger zone could be much larger and possibly
> the radiation level is even more severe than admitted - since the robot
> failed so quickly. That failure is another smoking gun, so to speak.
>
> Again, it is ludicrous to say this high reading was expected ... unless
> you are a company that was essentially negligent beyond all reason, both in
> the design and more so in the response.
>
> Worst of all - 5 years from now, the situation could be more toxic, since
> it appears 3 completely unconstrained cores are converting fertile uranium
> into fissile plutonium at an unexpected rate. Again, if a secondary
> explosion (hydrogen, steam or nuclear) cannot be ruled out, should not
> TEPCO be evacuating a wider zone?
>
> At Chernobyl, the situation has improved year to year, every year, as
> expected. Wildlife is taking over the formerly devastated area.
>
> Fukushima, appears to be going in the opposite direction.
> On 2/18/2017 8:36 AM, Alain Sepeda wrote:
>
> to relativize the fearmongering
> http://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/nuclear/
> high-fukushima-radiation-estimates-no-surprise-to-experts
> https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/243904-fukushimas-
> reactor-2-far-radioactive-previously-realized-no-sign-containment-breach
> http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/10/09/national/
> science-health/extensive-radiation-study-finds-no-
> internal-cesium-expos

Re: [Vo]:Fukushima much worse than imagined

[Alain Sepeda]

to relativize the fearmongering
http://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/nuclear/high-fukushima-radiation-estimates-no-surprise-to-experts
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/243904-fukushimas-reactor-2-far-radioactive-previously-realized-no-sign-containment-breach
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/10/09/national/science-health/extensive-radiation-study-finds-no-internal-cesium-exposure-fukushima-children/#.WJoJrzvhDzT
http://the-japan-news.com/news/article/0003511587
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/01/fukushima-residents-exposed-far-less-radiation-thought
https://www.minnpost.com/second-opinion/2014/11/thyroid-cancer-south-korea-cautionary-tale-about-dangers-overdiagnosis
http://ansnuclearcafe.org/2017/02/07/radiation-levels-not-soaring-at-fukushima-daiichi/
http://deepseanews.com/2013/11/true-facts-about-ocean-radiation-and-the-fukushima-disaster/

diversify your sources, or at least avoid the fearmongers and the salesmen.
http://www.huffingtonpost.jp/claire-leppold/fukushima-and-the-art-of-knowing-en_b_10537440.html
http://www.gepr.org/en/contents/20120507-03/

anyway there have been an heavy death toll, beside the huge 20k of living
near water
http://nextbigfuture.com/2012/08/fear-of-radiation-has-killed-761-and.html
http://nextbigfuture.com/2014/02/evacuation-deaths-in-japan-in-2011-were.html

water kills, we should forbid it

2017-02-18 16:19 GMT+01:00 Jones Beene :

> Fukushima much worse than imagined - 3 cores in runaway meltdown with no
> chance to stop them. China syndrome in reverse...
>
> Makes Chernobyl look like spilled milk
>
> http://www.environews.tv/world-news/alert-new-radiation-
> readings-fukushima-reactor-2-unimaginable-lethal-1-min/
>
> How long before the entire Pacific fishing industry is shut down?
>
> http://dailyoccupation.com/2016/12/28/fukushima-radiation-
> contaminated-entire-pacific-ocean-going-get-worse/
>
> Be sure to take your rad monitor to the fish market... and avoid the
> specials.
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Li batteries

[Alain Sepeda]

A decade ago I followed the LiFePO4 technology which was promising, as less
dense but totally safe...

What did it became? I don't hear of it anymore... Outpaced?

2017-02-14 8:41 GMT+01:00 Axil Axil :

> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/tech/new-damage-proof-
> battery-has-higher-energy-density-wont-explode/
>
> A safe battery.
>
> On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 9:16 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I recently saw a sticker on an envelope that said "road transport only,
>> do not
>> send by air", and it occurred to me that the item in question probably
>> contained
>> Li batteries. I wonder why it's safe to transport Li batteries by road,
>> but not
>> by air?
>> Also most of the Li battery failures I have heard of have been in
>> aircraft. If
>> that's the case, then perhaps the higher level of cosmic radiation at
>> altitude
>> is the immediate cause of failure of Li batteries transported by air??
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Robin van Spaandonk
>>
>> http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:An argument against intellectual property rights

[Alain Sepeda]

I know many secrets were lost during the building of France Cathedrales,
especially about glass making and decorations. Few were rediscovered
recently, but some stay mysterious.

Industrial revolution raised the awareness of this problem, leading to
Patent idea, that seems to be contemporary to USA foundation ...

2017-01-31 17:53 GMT+01:00 Jed Rothwell :

> Bob Higgins  wrote:
>
> Prior to patent rights granted by the government, new technology was
>> protected by trade secret - tell no one.  Nothing was shared and technology
>> advancement was slow.
>>
>
> I do not know what era you have in mind. In the U.S., we have had patents
> all along, even before independence. The patent system is written into the
> Constitution.
>
> With any important technology, trade secrets never work for long.
> Competitors reverse engineer the machine, or they hire employees who know
> how it is made. Still, patents are a better way to ensure rapid progress --
> to everyone's benefit.
>
> Lincoln was the only president to hold a patent. He thought a lot about
> patents and technology. Here are some quotes from him, most famously:
>
> "The patent system . . . added the fuel of interest to the fire of genius
> in the discovery and production of new and useful things."
>
> https://todayinsci.com/L/Lincoln_Abraham/LincolnAbraham-Quotations.htm
>
> - Jed
>
>

[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Patent application by Lundin & Lidgren – nuclear spallation and resonance

[Alain Sepeda]

I don't understand the details on the ponderomotive force LENR theory, so
this is pure wishful thinking.

Maybe it can support some other theories which need a new way to make
nucleus interact.

I first think about Edmund Storms Hydroton theory.
The great problem with Hydroton and the Slow Fusion, it is that it requires
the nucleus to interact through long range (raping the coulomb barrier
would cause huge energetic screaming)...
can  ponderometoive force allows, in an insulated coherent quantum system,
the nucleus to interact, exchange nucleons?

Maybe WLS theory could exploit this new interaction...

Why not Takahashi TSC theory?

My feeling, is that theories today have to mix their ideas...
Ed recently cited hagelstein, Mulenberg...


2017-01-18 17:16 GMT+01:00 a.ashfield :

> Mats,
> Most interesting.  This sounds like one of the most plausible theories to
> me.
> I haven't looked at the figures yet but surely this must lean heavily on
> what Rossi has already done?
>
> Adrian
>
>
>
>
> On 1/18/2017 7:43 AM, Mats Lewan wrote:
>
> The LENR patent application by Lundin and Lidgren referenced in this blog
> post:
> https://animpossibleinvention.com/2015/10/15/swedish-
> scientists-claim-lenr-explanation-break-through/
>
> is now public here:
> https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=EP=
> 3086323A1=A1=D==20161026==en_EP
>
> Mats
> www.animpossibleinvention.com
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:more jobs are going away

[Alain Sepeda]

the mentality of Chinese people is very capitalist at local level, and also
more family than individual oriented.
However at the political level they seems more imperial, and abroad they
tolerate the local authorities, even local criminality as long as it is not
impairing business...
It is a mix we have problem to understand in the West.
In a way I see a similar misunderstanding between French culture
considering US way. It is hard to see in france that US solidarity is more
group/community driven than state driven, even if things are changing (and
many disagree, in both countries).

The "policy mix" of a culture is surprising for another culture.
In China "capitalism" is more popular in poling than in france and even in
USA.

french are more negative than people of irak about their future...

Note that China may not be globally capitalist, more Mercantilist or
Colbertist as we say in france (Crony too)... Not so different from US-way
in foreign trade, with huge state implication in business to protect
installed players.
However both US and China (more China) unlike France, have a very strong
local free capitalism with huge competition.

2016-12-08 22:26 GMT+01:00 Chris Zell :

> China is the nation to watch as to Communism. I understand that it sees
> capitalist methods as useful on a path to Communism and has never given up
> on this idea.   If they can hold back corruption, they may continue with
> the Party being dominant over all corporate forces (unlike the US in which
> it is the other way around).
>
>
>
> Communism is mostly about developing and maintaining enough resources to
> be easily shared.  If abundance can be created technologically, there could
> be a withering away of the state. Think about what free energy, future 3-D
> printing and digital currencies could accomplish. We already have an
> enormous resource of free information at our fingertips – that frustrates
> centralized media and governance. Who knows what follows next?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:more jobs are going away

[Alain Sepeda]

To have an educated opinion from someone in contact with poors in emerging
countries, I advise this article, and moer generally to follows Hernando De
Soto
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hernando-de-soto/piketty-wrong-third-world_b_6751634.html

globally my position, inspired by a personal experience from western
socialized society to emerging country is that the problem is not
capitalisme, but lack of real free capitalism, and weak state of law.

In Egypt, half of what was said to be wages, salaries, in Egypt statistics
after some

There is no problem about robots if the worker can own a robot.
It should happen as the robots will be made by robots thus will be cheap.
problems is that in many place, even USA, what de Soto called mercantilism,
what some call Crony capitalism, what french call Colbertism, is the
reality of pretended capitalism.

Why a taxi should be afraid of losing his job if he can make his taxi work
for him, and why not buy many taxi to transport many more clients for the
same budget as before, but without much work ?

As I understand the price of things is simply the price of work, even if
the currency change around that reality (not the opposite). Energy is work,
biased by taxes imposed by monopolies like when you pay oil to someone who
did not cook it few millions years ago. anyway if you buy oil to the emirs,
this mean that for you it saves work to make oil from whale oil or from
corn. The price you pay to the emirs is just below the price of that work
you don't pay.

I'm not afraid of AI, my latest AI is made by two great inventors, me and
my wife, and the training phase is a job in itself... much more difficult
than programming, but in fact most humans are OK with that competence.
Programmes will lose their jobs, but will become just professors.

the horse never put slaves on the dole, it just allowed them to be
independent farmers.

capitalism for all, this is the new utopia. Not easy as everywhere the
lobbies of incumbent try to exploit government to shelter them from
competition and poors who organized to innovate.

PS: I'm just typeproofing a testimony of a tapol (Communist/leftist
political prIsoners of Soeharto US backed regime in indonesia) exiled in
Buru island...
The irony is that the island was managed like a soviet farm, forced to make
rice with no freedom ...
around 72 (after some escaped following a murder of a guardian, later
attributed to a battle between guardians who trafficked wood pieces) there
was a reform and they allowed, like in USSR or in popular China, some
private business, some currency usage , beside the soviet economy of rice
as decided by the ministers.
It worked and they ate better, even if the prisoner was moaning some get
richer because of lucky positions...
Hard to explain to someone devoted to communisme whose life was runed by
pretended capitalism system, that he was starved in a communist prison
system, by a crony capitalist government, and he could only eat better when
it became more entrepreneur-friendly and accepted inequality rise...


2016-12-07 23:39 GMT+01:00 Daniel Rocha :

> It's a waste of time to argue with those with petite bourgeois mentality,
> at least in Marxist terms, that's what I mean.
>
> 2016-12-07 16:12 GMT-02:00 Che :
>
>>
>> I don't even know what you getting at, fella.
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Bill Gates connection to LENR?

[Alain Sepeda]

To control, or to develop?

LENR cannot be controlled or it will die.
Modern entrepreneur know that.

Not more simple than controlling teenagers during springbreak.

2016-11-29 17:57 GMT+01:00 :

> With the recent information from Italy (Giuseppe, Navarro and Coppi)
> reported on Rossi’s blog;  the information from LENR Forum about Gates
> interaction with La Gatta (apparently in Padua, It during the ICCF-19);
> Texas Tech interaction with La Gatta’s firm in Italy;  La Gatta’s
> interaction with IH in N.C.,  and Gates support of LENR at Texas Tech, is
> Gates involved in IH via. La Gatta’s firm or Texas Tech or both?
>
>
>
> The plot thickens.  And the Court Case may reveal much more about the IH
> supporters and  action to control the Ni-H LENR technology.
>
>
>
> I suspect that a settlement of the Federal Case in Florida will happen
> about February 2017 with Rossi maintaining control of the IP and much money
> changing hands.   There is potential for a huge fish fry, however.
>
>
>
> Bob Cook
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:More on automation and Martin Ford

[Alain Sepeda]

NB: De soto make an article about Mercantilism...
how economic elite obtain help by government to block competition
http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-real-enemy-for-trump-is-mercantilism-not-globalism-1480279192

the secret of economic rents, and what make people furious, from Tunisia to
rust belt.

by the way what he describe as the desire of the poor is Airbnb and Uberpop.

no surprise Newyork and paris blocked it, they are mercantilist at least.

2016-11-28 12:03 GMT+01:00 Lennart Thornros <lenn...@thornros.com>:

> Alain, as usual a great analysis.
> The only way in an UBI economy, we would not have a better distribution of
> capital is that we let the establishment prevent natural development with
> political conservation laws.
>
> On Nov 27, 2016 18:11, "Alain Sepeda" <alain.sep...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> from exchange it seems that one big problem and neglected point is about
>> allocation of the capitale.
>> what people name "robots are taking our jobs" is simply the well known
>> "replacement of work by capital".
>> One psychological problem marxist but mostly old fashioned simply, is
>> that people don't consider they are capitalist.
>> Hernando De Soto is much more aware of how poor emerging societies works
>> and actively try to defend poor-people capitalism, to defend their
>> unprotected hidden capital.
>> www.huffingtonpost.com/hernando-de-soto/piketty-wrong-third-
>> world_b_6751634.html
>> Most of rich people capital is very much protected but also mostly wind.
>> Most of poor capital is solid, tangible and productive, but unrecognized
>> as so.
>>
>> There is no problem of losing your job for a robot, if you own the
>> robot... it is like a farmer who own his tractor (after an acceptable loan
>> eventually).
>>
>> If capital is too unequally allocated it is inefficient, after it is
>> unfair.
>> Usual  way to correct that is that real capital need work to be managed,
>> and lasy capital exploiter lose their capital (wrongly managed, stolen by
>> insider.
>> Another better mechanism is the technology revolution, which create
>> inequalities, but new inequalities different from the previous.
>>
>> What I call beside UBI is a kind of agrarian revolution for capital.
>> UBI can be a mechanism to allow people to own an eternal security that
>> they can use to acquire capital.
>>
>> in fact this is what was observed with UBI in India, and as reported here
>> in Africa.
>>
>> another point people don't understand here is that if bots really are
>> working for free, this mean they cost nothing, and poor people can buy them.
>> if they cost something, this mean they requires work, and poor people can
>> build them.
>>
>> the only and key problem is training. In France it is clearly our
>> problem, with the educated workforce nearly fully employed (5% unemployed,
>> frictional), with work market tension making enterprise margin going into
>> salary rises (when not in taxes). Beside this German Style of workmarket,
>> there is a mass of uneducated workers with above than 25% unemployment,
>> short contracts, ...
>>
>> many people moan for globalization, but they refuse to admit it have
>> given purchase capacity to the poor. today everybody moan, while
>> globalization have stalled, commerce is falling...
>>
>> My feeling is that we have problem of education and training and on the
>> other of lack of innovation.
>>
>> there is anyway much innovation , but it is deflationist (Uber, e-bay,
>> blablacar, heetch, Airbnb...), which is a pain for the indebted actors,
>> first the states, then US families.
>> Note that sharing economy is ... way to make you a capitalist exploiting
>> your assets.
>>
>> Future is to have UberPop of botcars.
>>
>>
>> 2016-11-27 13:32 GMT+01:00 Lennart Thornros <lenn...@thornros.com>:
>>
>>> Axil,
>>> Your scenario is a good example of how the economy really is.
>>> It  is not a zero sum game. Our resources are built on previous
>>> generations innovations and progress. After that we all have 24 hours per
>>> day. We can use them productively (in a wide sense) or just misuse them.
>>> Computers, houses, robots will be part of what we can do with those 24
>>> hours a day.
>>> There are needs all over the globe. There are also resources (everyone's
>>> 24 hour a day).
>>>
>>> This out of the box thinking about economy has its problems. We have
>>> built a debt system we inherit with all the good things (not only monetary
>&g

Re: [Vo]:More on automation and Martin Ford

[Alain Sepeda]

from exchange it seems that one big problem and neglected point is about
allocation of the capitale.
what people name "robots are taking our jobs" is simply the well known
"replacement of work by capital".
One psychological problem marxist but mostly old fashioned simply, is that
people don't consider they are capitalist.
Hernando De Soto is much more aware of how poor emerging societies works
and actively try to defend poor-people capitalism, to defend their
unprotected hidden capital.
www.huffingtonpost.com/hernando-de-soto/piketty-wrong-third-world_b_6751634.html
Most of rich people capital is very much protected but also mostly wind.
Most of poor capital is solid, tangible and productive, but unrecognized as
so.

There is no problem of losing your job for a robot, if you own the robot...
it is like a farmer who own his tractor (after an acceptable loan
eventually).

If capital is too unequally allocated it is inefficient, after it is unfair.
Usual  way to correct that is that real capital need work to be managed,
and lasy capital exploiter lose their capital (wrongly managed, stolen by
insider.
Another better mechanism is the technology revolution, which create
inequalities, but new inequalities different from the previous.

What I call beside UBI is a kind of agrarian revolution for capital.
UBI can be a mechanism to allow people to own an eternal security that they
can use to acquire capital.

in fact this is what was observed with UBI in India, and as reported here
in Africa.

another point people don't understand here is that if bots really are
working for free, this mean they cost nothing, and poor people can buy them.
if they cost something, this mean they requires work, and poor people can
build them.

the only and key problem is training. In France it is clearly our problem,
with the educated workforce nearly fully employed (5% unemployed,
frictional), with work market tension making enterprise margin going into
salary rises (when not in taxes). Beside this German Style of workmarket,
there is a mass of uneducated workers with above than 25% unemployment,
short contracts, ...

many people moan for globalization, but they refuse to admit it have given
purchase capacity to the poor. today everybody moan, while globalization
have stalled, commerce is falling...

My feeling is that we have problem of education and training and on the
other of lack of innovation.

there is anyway much innovation , but it is deflationist (Uber, e-bay,
blablacar, heetch, Airbnb...), which is a pain for the indebted actors,
first the states, then US families.
Note that sharing economy is ... way to make you a capitalist exploiting
your assets.

Future is to have UberPop of botcars.


2016-11-27 13:32 GMT+01:00 Lennart Thornros :

> Axil,
> Your scenario is a good example of how the economy really is.
> It  is not a zero sum game. Our resources are built on previous
> generations innovations and progress. After that we all have 24 hours per
> day. We can use them productively (in a wide sense) or just misuse them.
> Computers, houses, robots will be part of what we can do with those 24
> hours a day.
> There are needs all over the globe. There are also resources (everyone's
> 24 hour a day).
>
> This out of the box thinking about economy has its problems. We have built
> a debt system we inherit with all the good things (not only monetary debt).
> That needs a solution and I am sure confiscation is not a solution.
> However, billion dollar assets inherited has no justification either. I do
> not have that solution but I think those two factors will together with
> creative thinking build a better world.
>
> Pacifistic? Idealistic? Perhaps both but if we can change thhe attitude
> toward  money we can create a lot. Money are just means. Who need to accrue
> more resources than he/she can utilise.? The real resources are time (which
> is equally distributed) and creativity (which needs recognition).
>
> Best Regards ,
> Lennart Thornros
>
>
> lenn...@thornros.com
> +1 916 436 1899
>
> Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
> enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 27, 2016 at 12:20 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> China will lead the way. China has 1.5 billion people to keep happy with
>> no jobs to offer. It is true that all coastal cities worldwide within 100
>> miles of the coastline will be underwater and in need of relocation inland,
>> That should produce a number of jobs.
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 26, 2016 at 11:02 PM, Jed Rothwell 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Daniel Rocha  wrote:
>>>
>>> Why do you think taxation won't be very heavy?

>>>
>>> Because it will not cost much more than today's welfare systems, as I
>>> said.
>>>
>>>
>>>
 Money won't appear out of nowhere, minimum wage will only accelerate
 collapse.

>>>
>>> Money always appears out of nowhere when the 

Re: [Vo]:More on automation and Martin Ford

[Alain Sepeda]

Farmers will be able to take vacation, instead of having no life in France
and ending to ask for a legal association (kind of cross-protection in case
of death Civil wedding ) between older brother/sister who cannot find a
mate and live together (it was asked during study of gay civil wedding bill
and refused .

Parents will pass less time running in the big mall, and rather make
homework with their kids and play in the park.

lost time is lost time, and if some job/annoyance was someway good, it can
be replaced by what is good without the pain.
If you want contact, go out, just to make contact, not just to fill your
fridge.
In fact I have seen that...
mother below 50s style who have no life between cooking, washing,
hoovering, running to the shops, moving the kids, discovered drivein,
surgelated and microwave, (recently) hoover bots, and bikes or busses, and
they do new things...
Some new careers, hobbyworks, social life, activism, politics, Saturday
night fever ...

however if you cannot make anything, or if you imagine you cannot make
anything, else your old work, then giving you more time for something else
is a murder...
in a way this is what happen to part of the retired workers. part of them
die quickly of boredom consequence...
today however retired workers are pillars for charities, clubs, local
associations, and helps working parents by babysitting... they are just not
paid, but they often work hard.


2016-11-26 21:54 GMT+01:00 Axil Axil :

> Amazon can develope of product delivery system that will allow the
> customer to receive all his consumables via robot, This would eliminate all
> supermarket and brick and mortar stores from the product distribution chain
> and also remove the delivery driver from the delivery process, People will
> not need to leave their homes to live. Shopping will be a computer based
> process from selection to delivery.
>
> A dairy farm can now be completely automated including milking the cows.
>
> On Sat, Nov 26, 2016 at 3:38 PM, Jed Rothwell 
> wrote:
>
>> Here is how Amazon.com robots work. The machines themselves are not
>> particularly sophisticated.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtBa9yVZBJM
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:More on automation and Martin Ford

[Alain Sepeda]

many good points but.

about laundry, jed is right. But who own the machine ? future of work is
just managing the capital... if the capital can do all the work, who work
to install the capital? to make it?
Anyway hand work and human contact will increase of value.

Note that if there is too much concentration, of real capital letting too
many people starving, like with agrarian revolution, there will be a
capitalist revolution to reset th allocation... anyway usually it is better
done by technological revolution where former winner get overcome by new
winner.

It is well explained in "the Next Convergence"
http://thenextconvergence.com/

another point is about debt : if their is huge growth of satisfied needs,
there will be inflation, and debt will be extinguished... or if not and
debt  is unbearable, and people who benefit from it have a huge unfair
advantage, it will be restructured. This happens often.

about neoliberal storytelling, if there is competition, if price are not
manipulated, there cannot be monopoly as said here.
this happened in some midwest state with obamacare because the structure of
the price was contrained, leading to many operator to flee, letting a
single one in each place which then could make it's price. It seems the be
the reason why this great idea is so impopular, because of it's
implementation between regulated and fake-free-market. Too bad.

BTW huge cost of US health system is because of complex incentives leading
to high prices without moderation pressure.


2016-11-25 16:51 GMT+01:00 Jed Rothwell <jedrothw...@gmail.com>:

> Alain Sepeda <alain.sep...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> in fact robots make the value of the worker increase, as it always have.
>> It is continuous substitution of work by capital.
>>
>
> This cannot go on indefinitely. Sooner or later you run out of work.
>
>
>
>> washing machine makes the value of the laundry worker be higher, as he
>> exploits capital invested in a machine.
>>
>
> There are no laundry workers anymore! Practically no one makes a living
> washing clothes.
>
>
>
>> What you describe is the tragedy of a worker who is prevented, by
>> regulation or social barriers, to exploit some capital.
>> The future of the laundry worker is not to work for a laundry boss with a
>> thousands of machine. It is to own a thousand of machine, like a Roman
>> citizen was owning slaves.
>>
>
> The future of laundry is here already. We all have our own laundry
> machines. The cost of the machines has fallen. No one makes a living doing
> laundry anymore.
>
> In the 1980s there was still laundry service in hotels in the U.S. and
> Japan. You put your dirty clothes in a bag and the hotel charged to clean
> them. Today, hotels have self-service laundry rooms with coin operated
> machines. This is much cheaper for the hotel guest. It is a little more
> work, like self-checkout lines at Lowe's hardware, or buying things on
> Amazon.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:More on automation and Martin Ford

[Alain Sepeda]

2016-11-25 2:38 GMT+01:00 Jed Rothwell :

> In the future, computers and robots can do nearly all work such as driving
> cars, building houses, diagnosing x-rays and performing surgery. Human
> labor will gradually become worthless.


This is a point where I disagree.

in fact robots make the value of the worker increase, as it always have.
It is continuous substitution of work by capital.

washing machine makes the value of the laundry worker be higher, as he
exploits capital invested in a machine.
What you describe is the tragedy of a worker who is prevented, by
regulation or social barriers, to exploit some capital.
The future of the laundry worker is not to work for a laundry boss with a
thousands of machine. It is to own a thousand of machine, like a Roman
citizen was owning slaves.

The big error of Marxist vision, and in fact old-style 19/20th century
vision in the West is to separate capital and work. It was in fact exact
when stated, because at that time workers and capitalist were
sociologically separated, and capital was huge because of the size of steam
engines and following, and need of taylorization of workforce. In fact the
capitalism of that period, still dominant, was based on an evolution of
landlord medieval system, just moved to industrial business.
Social security just organized the paternalism of concentrated capitalism,
and crony business associated. It is dying slowly.



Today what taylorization, steam engine and factory machine,  schools and
big companies, have solved can be solved by IT, mobile apps, social
network, MOOC.

What the very imperfect and uninnovative company Uber have started is
allowing anyone with goodwill to be a capitalist, be a shareholder, and
investor, an independent worker.
When they will be "replaced" by botcars, what the society should organized
is to transform them in bot company shareholders, and not in unemployed
victims.

never forget that if a bot can create value for nothing, the value is there.

at last people will pay the small manual works much higher , because what a
human can do manually will be valued much more than what a thousands of
bots can do for no cost.

just helping the mummy that manage a bot company to cross the street may
make her pay you by the value 1 year of taxi (costing nothing for her) that
could also feed you for 6 month of hydroponic food, 1 visit of le Louvre
with a Mooc, or... getting some help by your neighbour.

we should realize that today the hour of work of most people allows to pay
much more food, much more kilometer of travel, than before.

I don't feel than robots will change anything more than before.
at best it may just push local capitalism.

current troubled  situation for me is just the old way to think the world
opposing to the revolution, refusing African style home capitalism,
defending smoking 19th century big capitalism, defending economic rents of
some elite (not the 1% by income, much wider elite defined by networking
and lobbying capacity).

Re: [Vo]:More on automation and Martin Ford

[Alain Sepeda]

I am not afraid of the extreme wealth.
Ad De Soto explains  (he is connected to real world or emerging economies)
most of the "wealth" is pure hot air on stock market... What count is what
you buy for your fun.

Never forget that what you invest is no more your money but one of an
entrepreneur.
Money you save, idem.
Now when you are rich and don't give money to other to exploit it, you have
to give it to someone to please you...
this man you have to please have now a job, and money...

Anyway there are problems that make this seemingly simple evidence, not so
evident.

one is that the money you invest, or store may not be used efficiently
you may put it in a central bank to finally pay unproductive bank in
administration that build and demolish pyramid of papers (with great
courage, effort and good will, but uselessly) . you may create bubble that
just make people feel they are rich but does not allow them but hire a
starving neighbour..

another problem is something I discovered discussing Tango professor in
Indonesian elite : there is cultural incapacity to pay people of lower
caste at a price you can afford, to please you, just because you feel it is
not fair/moral...

For example there is very hard jobs that nobody want to do, that are very
useful, but they are not well pad, yet the community or the rich can pay
them.

the result is that money circulate between member of the same caste.

anyway it could even be solved if people who are poor could hire their
neigbours who have no job...

anyway I'm not so sure it is a real problem, . my feeling is that the
problem of poor people often is
1- that they could not benefit of technology progress, and education, and
lose time and miss opportunities, because they have no tool/competence...
it is a lack of capital , and UBI may allow them to take the risk to invest
in tools, in trainings, and in the tools and training that is the cheapest
and the most efficient for their own market
2- because they have no access to some market, because lack of offer-demand
matching (see UberPop as a solution)
3- because the market they participate is controlled by an oligopoly
(oligopsone in fact), or by regulation, like the kind of stupid examination
France is trying to put to prevent suburban people to be Uber drivers (like
asking French about UK history, or language)

the problem of the 1% is problem of hidden economic rents, monopolies,
hidden barriers to entry, manipulated prices, discriminations... not pb of
wealth.

I know that very well because as a french I explain my wife that in France
you don't get things because of money, but because of network, often linked
to family and geography, through culture and real-estate.
To have the best education in France you don't need to pay private school,
just to live in the good place in Paris where flat cost many million, if
you buy it today. France is Priceless. With good network you can get
subsidized, helped, informed, funded, and without you cannot.

Don't fight the 1%, fight the monopolies and barriers.

2016-11-24 19:19 GMT+01:00 a.ashfield <a.ashfi...@verizon.net>:

> Alain,
> I agree with much of what you wrote.  Not so sure about a flat tax.
> Something more will be required to redistribute the extreme wealth of the
> top 1%.
> As you say, many will take the opportunity to work,  Many small startup
> companies.  There will be growth in the entertainment business and
> interesting consequences from sexbots.
> Possibly the most important aspect is restarting GDP growth.  Beats me why
> economists can't see that the problem is too many people struggling under
> debt that they can't afford to buy new stuff.
>
>
> On 11/24/2016 6:21 AM, Alain Sepeda wrote:
>
> UBI can be implement in many way.
> Libertarians/Liberalist/FreeMarketFan promote a vision that is intended
> to replace charity, yet to keep unconditionally an incentive to work.
>
> the big recognized problem of todays social safety nets is that it is a
> tax, a disincentive on people who get out of poverty. In country like
> France this tax may sometime not be far from 90%, if not above 100% (at
> least facially at short term).
>
> another problem I know well is that safety net follow a bourgeoisie vision
> of how to behave, of what is good, how to earn your life, how to be
> organized...
> It may be counter productive.
>
> Earning your life only by selling garden vegetable, driving for Uber,
> babysittng, renting your tools, buying and selling on e-bay, delivering
> salad, should not be punished compared to looking for a full-time work in a
> factory.
> Living in a trail and using all your money to skydive should not be
> treated differently as owning a big house and playing in the garden.
>
> UBI also is , contrary to the myth, promoting MORE work and MORE risk
> taking, more investments, more school. It was measured in india with p

Re: [Vo]:More on automation and Martin Ford

[Alain Sepeda]

UBI can be implement in many way.
Libertarians/Liberalist/FreeMarketFan promote a vision that is intended to
replace charity, yet to keep unconditionally an incentive to work.

the big recognized problem of todays social safety nets is that it is a
tax, a disincentive on people who get out of poverty. In country like
France this tax may sometime not be far from 90%, if not above 100% (at
least facially at short term).

another problem I know well is that safety net follow a bourgeoisie vision
of how to behave, of what is good, how to earn your life, how to be
organized...
It may be counter productive.

Earning your life only by selling garden vegetable, driving for Uber,
babysittng, renting your tools, buying and selling on e-bay, delivering
salad, should not be punished compared to looking for a full-time work in a
factory.
Living in a trail and using all your money to skydive should not be treated
differently as owning a big house and playing in the garden.

UBI also is , contrary to the myth, promoting MORE work and MORE risk
taking, more investments, more school. It was measured in india with poor
people.

note that for the UBI to be neutral, it should be associated with a flat
tax that make any way to earn your life as attractive as any other.

Neutrality is essential, so flat tax and unconditionality are keys.
In fact most people are more intelligent to solve their own problems than
administration (this is the anti-communist moto). they better know where to
invest, BUT if they are in risk of ruin, starvation, death, they refuse to
take risk, and as any financial expert know this mean getting less benefits.

UBI is a life insurance that promote risk taking, entrepreneur spirit,
investments in education and business... It is also a way to transform a
flat tax system into a globally progressive tax rate, keeping the marginal
tax rate neutral.
UBI can really boost the economy.

of course it can be implemented wrongly. It will probably be, and many UBI
announces propose something not unconditional, not basic, not neutral.

For example in France most observers imagine that it will not be universal,
it won't cancel all other charity system, so it will just be a new fat
charity system, not an autonomy enabling system to "laisser-faire" the
people.

Note that about the disappearance of work, I am opposing this vision.
Work will not disappear. Work will move BACK to a less "factory-style"
notion of job (exploiting submissive taylorized zombies and bureaucratic
managers), and we will go a little back to what is fund in Africa, in Uber,
but not totally as stable workforce is useful (NB: a French company
operating Amazon like online shops in many African countries explained thay
have to improve fidelity and training of a usually Uberized workforce).

However full-time life-time work will probably not be possible nor
desirable, and people will have multiple activities, including usual work,
but also independent work, off-time businesses, e-bay shops, UberPop
phases, like you see in emerging countries.

This is why neutral UBI is a key to make full-time-work not a condition to
be protected by the community.



2016-11-23 22:19 GMT+01:00 Jed Rothwell :

> Brian Ahern  wrote:
>
>> This is neo-communism.
>>
> Yes, it is. Except that instead of exploiting other people's labor, it
> would exploit robots. Robots don't care. They will not be upset.
>
> All of us helped develop robots and computers with our tax money, so we
> should all get the benefits from them.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:White house report on AI

[Alain Sepeda]

I've just relayed a news about inventors balance accros the wold.
US is the highest net importer of inventors, with a tiny export.
Germany is much below but high importer and exporter of inventors.
france unsurprisingly is net exporter, no importer of inventors.

as i see from recent Nobel and inventions and startups, US is net importer
of talents in nearly all domains, and exporter of ideas.

about IA, we should never forget two ideas.

one is that any machine will be exploited by a human, even quite
intelligent, and if it is nealy not controllable, the human :

> a.ashfield  wrote:
>
>
>> Yes I was referring to high school grads for that rating, but it really
>> doesn't matter.
>>
>
> You are right that it does not matter for the problem of AI replacing
> jobs. However, in a separate issue, you said that our current graduates are
> "dead last in the world in math and science." I do not think that is true.
> It is a statistical illusion caused by our high graduation rate. If every
> state and every country sent 76% of kids to college the way New York does,
> they would all be far behind the U.S. They send only a tiny elite instead.
> Which makes them look better.
>
> As it happens, they send most of their best people to U.S. universities.
> Fortunately for us, these people tend to stay in the U.S. The "brain drain"
> that began in the 1940s continues today, and the U.S. is the beneficiary. I
> used to work with graduating classes from Georgia Tech., and I saw that.
> Somehow, the U.S. has managed to capture the creme de la creme talent from
> every nation on earth. Whatever we are doing right, we should keep doing it.
>
> I am reminded of that by the recent crop of Japanese Nobel winners. Most
> of them either studied in the U.S., made the contribution that won the
> prize in the U.S., or they are now U.S. citizens. Shuji Nakamura, the guy
> who invented the blue LED, became an American citizen some time ago. He
> wrote a book about how angry he was with Japanese society and with the
> company he worked at. He is much happier in the U.S.
>
> So, we do not lack for engineering talent. However, as you say, that does
> not help the burgeoning employment crisis caused by AI. It probably makes
> it worse.
>
>
> It is not so much the college grads that will be losing their jobs
>> (although some like pharmacists etc will.) it is more that there won't be
>> other jobs to go to.
>>
>
> Yup. Big problem!
>
> - Jed
>
>

[Vo]:Miles calorimetry comparison at ICCF17 (Korea) ...

[Alain Sepeda]

Hi all,

I've lost the slides and paper of Melvin Miles about calorimetry comparison
between Fleischmann, Lonchampt, caltech and MIT, presented at ICCF18 in
Korea.

is there a public place to find it ? I could not find it on LENR-CANR...
and the ICCF17 site is down.

Re: [Vo]:answer to Ethan Siegel, LENR is a scientific Pechvogel

[Alain Sepeda]

Ethan Siegel persevere

"Errare Humanum est Perseverare Diabolicum"


http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2016/09/25/comments-of-the-week-128-from-elementary-particle-to-cold-fusion-fraud/


anyway only the one who never sinned can throw the first stone...


on point worry me, is the MFMP enthusiastic claims that they have a perfect
and definitive demo that could resist not only to skeptics, but also to
pigeon chessmasters.

Siegel, Pomp are happily preparing to bash the community for a
"non-delivery-of-promis-as-we-are-used".




2016-09-26 0:00 GMT+02:00 a.ashfield :

> Peter, I posted this as a comment on the Forbe's piece.  You could also
> comment there.
> AA
>
> Ethan Siegel, you are in error in several of your statements and as I
> found several years when I contacted you over your quote used in Wikipedia,
> you keep your eyes firmly closed and refused to look at evidence that
> proves you wrong.  Last time I recall you said you were too busy.
> .
> Bill Katakis answered your answer well and as far as I can see in Forbes
> strange comment format you failed to reply to it. You wrote:
> "they would have contacted me and offered to show me their research over
> the past five years..."  What arrogance!  Why on earth would they bother?
> Do you really consider yourself that important?
>
>  You were wrong about hot fusion being the answer too.  With their track
> record and ITER costing $25 billion for 8 minutes of operation if it works
> in the 2030s and a commercial reactor in the 2050s, it looks like it would
> be uneconomic even if it did work.  Good lifetime employment for the troops
> though.
>
> You claim "...willing to provide you with a verifiable, working device
> that you can investigate independently, nor with an experiment you can
> repeat yourself. Any contention to the contrary is philosophically
> indefensible."  You are wrong again. Apparently you think if you had seen
> the Wright Brothers fly.that would not be proof of flight.
> The problem with LENR not being more open is that since the bungled
> failures of MIT & CalTech to replicate Pons & Fleischmann the US Patent
> Offuce has refused to grant patents in the area.  As many now know the hot
> fusion phyicists failed to load the Palladium with sufficient Deuterium for
> the process to start.
>
> I could add pages of proved experiments to what Katakis wrote but there is
> no point when you won't look at it.
>
>
>
>
>  Forwarded Message 
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:answer to Ethan Siegel, LENR is a scientific Pechvogel
> Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2016 14:34:31 -0400
> From: a.ashfield  
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
>
> Peter,
> Don't waste your time on Ethan.  From a distant email exchange I had with
> him about his quotations that were in error, being used in Wikipedia, he is
> simply not interested in looking at any evidence contrary to his previously
> stated opinion.
> AA
>
>
> On 9/25/2016 1:41 PM, Peter Gluck wrote:
>
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2016/09/sep-25-2016-dear-
> ethan-lenr-is.html
>
> if somebody knows Ethan can send this to him...thanks
>
> peter
>
> --
> Dr. Peter Gluck
> Cluj, Romania
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:CBCNews Canada: Why the controversial science of cold fusion is getting hot again

[Alain Sepeda]

he have great influence on the sheep & parrots who blocked LENR since 27
years.

2016-09-25 0:36 GMT+02:00 a.ashfield <a.ashfi...@verizon.net>:

> Jed,
> Ethan siegel is a loud mouth.  In exchanges I have had with him he was not
> interested i hearing about anything that contradicted his opinion.  "Too
> busy to look."
> I wouldn't worry too much about what he thinks.
> AA
>
>
>
> On 9/23/2016 5:53 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>
> Alain Sepeda <alain.sep...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ethan siegel bash LENR as fraud based on Rossi and Defkalion story,
>> ignoring the science
>>
>> I'm tired
>>
>
> You're tired, and I am apprehensive. This is what I feared might happen.
> We begin to see the harm Rossi and Defkalion caused. I hope this will not
> have an impact on the Congress but I fear that it will.
>
> - Jed
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:CBCNews Canada: Why the controversial science of cold fusion is getting hot again

[Alain Sepeda]

ethan siegel bash LENR as fraud based on Rossi and Defkalion story,
ignoring the science

I'm tired

2016-09-23 0:04 GMT+02:00 Jones Beene <jone...@pacbell.net>:

> Two slime jobs in New Scientist in response to this
>
>
>
> https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg23130910-300-cold-
> fusion-sciences-most-controversial-technology-is-back/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Alain Sepeda
>
> An article on LENR, relative to  U.S. House of Representatives committee
> on armed services  with reference to rossi, Larsen, open skepticism, open
> curiosity...
>
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/congress-cold-fusion-briefing-1.3772873
>
>
>
>
>
> I launched a post for debate on lenr-forum
>
> https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/3827-CBCNews-Canada/
>
>
>
> I seen an occasion to spread informations
>

[Vo]:CBCNews Canada: Why the controversial science of cold fusion is getting hot again

[Alain Sepeda]

An article on LENR, relative to  U.S. House of Representatives committee on
armed services  with reference to rossi, Larsen, open skepticism, open
curiosity...
http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/congress-cold-fusion-briefing-1.3772873


I launched a post for debate on lenr-forum
https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/3827-CBCNews-Canada/

I seen an occasion to spread informations

Re: [Vo]:History of cold fusion in Italy. Retrograde performance: maybe the Coyote rules?

[Alain Sepeda]

On the opposite, maybe not specifically in Italy, but results get more and
more reliable.
for ICCF15 ENEA reported results where success evolved from unreliable to
more than 60% success because of cristallography surface choice.

as I read the litterature of PdD, it seems more and more reliable for good
old electrolythic method.

what is changing however is the reduction of budgets.
first experiments were done in the 90s with short but noticeable budgets,
but then it became very hard to work., in the 2k period it seems budget is
the big problem.

for NiH maybe your notice apply and we must take the consequence.

2016-08-30 23:09 GMT+02:00 David L. Babcock :

> I am struck by a curious parallel between many investigational endeavors
> in science, the 'soft sciences', near science, and maybe-science (cold
> fusion may or may not be in this last category). All are troubled by a
> sequence comprising initial success, followed by a long irregular slope
> down into no-results-above-noise.
>
> The soft sciences are abuzz right now with a huge failure-to-replicate of
> all kinds of findings that were thought to be rock solid. Sort of as though
> the more you look, the less you see. Wish I could give a link. Google on
> failure to replicate.
>
> In parapsychology, there is the researcher who after years of at first
> very good results, then worse results with the same tests, until at last
> results so bad she decided it was all mistaken.
>
> In comes the coyote, the Trickster.  In "*The Trickster and the
> Paranormal", (George Hansen) *-which I did not read, but read about- a
> good argument is made that err, "something", is at work screwing up the
> works, by either giving good results where none is warranted, or subverting
> good results over time to discredit/stymie/trick the researcher.  I take
> the liberty, at lest for this exposition, of taking this out of the
> paranormal "box" and jamming it helter skelter into particle physics. Or
> whatever physics covers LENR.
>
> For a brain transition enhancer, think poltergeist.  (If you check into
> the 'Glitch in the matrix' Reddit, there is a lot there to suggest trickery
> in the numerous reports of moving or hiding small objects.)
>
> Enter Rossi. A prime target. The master of trickery, of (a least!) the
> trickery of moving small objects, gives Rossi a tantalizing glimpse of fame
> and fortune by shuffling atomic particles around. And keeps it up until
> Rossi is backed into a serious corner, totally tricked. Totally conned, he
> is a prime target because he is himself a showman, a conman.  Other
> researchers suffer only frustration and, some, heartbreak. Less hubris?
>
> This does not tell us whether cold fusion is real or not, but it may be
> implying strongly that successfully deploying it may involve a major
> paradigm shift, perhaps of the nature of a core of true believers at each
> power site, in constant prayer (or chanting, candle lighting, pigeon
> slaying).
>
> On 8/30/2016 8:33 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>
>
>> If the E-Cat worked earlier do you really suppose Rossi retrograded
>> performance with time?
>>
>
> Yes, this seems likely. Patterson and several other researchers forgot how
> to make working devices. Rossi reportedly destroyed his older reactors to
> make new ones out of the parts. He did not keep a record of what he had
> done. I think it is possible he forgot how to produce heat.
>
> It is also possible everything was fake from the start. I do not have
> enough information to judge.
>
> - Jed
>
>
>
>
> 
>  Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> 
>

Re: [Vo]:History of cold fusion in Italy

[Alain Sepeda]

One improbable hypothesis is that the strange behavior,
like reported by IH about the way the Swedish licensee was deterred, is
that once again Rossi succeeded in convincing his partner to flee, so he
can marry with a new bride...

I don't believe it, but we cannot be sure.

moreover consider that some strange tests show behaviors that are difficult
to interpret as total failures.

one characteristic of Rossi, we tolerated and justified too long, is to
maintain permanent uncertainty.



2016-08-30 0:00 GMT+02:00 a.ashfield :

> But countless times you have said Rossi is a fraud and the COP<1
> Now you're saying the E-Cat maybe worked?
> If the E-Cat worked earlier do you really suppose Rossi retrograded
> performance with time?
> AA
>
>
>
> On 8/29/2016 5:09 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>
> a.ashfield  wrote:
>
>
>> It seems the American Physical Society is going to publish replication
>> results of Rossi's Ni/H2/L reactor
>> How are you going to explain that Jed?
>>
>
> Any member can publish anything at an APS conference. (They set that rule
> many years ago, after a rather gruesome incident.)
>
> This result, if true, might indicate Ni-H cold fusion works, but that has
> no bearing on the fact that Rossi's 1 year test could not possibly have
> produced 1 MW.
>
> Rossi's earlier results might be real. I cannot rule that out, as I have
> said before. However, there is not the slightest chance this result is real
> because as I said the heat would kill everyone in the room. Also, the flow
> meter and pressure readings appear to be fake. The flow meter numbers are
> too regular to be true, and the pressure is impossible.
>
> - Jed
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Interesting Steam Calculation

[Alain Sepeda]

ok,
this is a good news for the affair...

I'm not unrealistically optimistic anyway ;->

2016-08-26 15:46 GMT+02:00 Jed Rothwell <jedrothw...@gmail.com>:

> Alain Sepeda <alain.sep...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Just to confirm my understanding.
>> it seems the rust have been cleaned after inspection?
>>
>
> I have not heard this. This is not what Exhibit 5 says. It says they found
> lines of rust in the flow meter, which indicate how high the water went.
>
> This resembles the ring in a dirty bathtub, or the high water mark on a
> wall from a flood. If the pipe had been full, the rust would be evenly
> distributed throughout the orifice.
>
> It does not say anyone cleaned it up.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Interesting Steam Calculation

[Alain Sepeda]

Just to confirm my understanding.
it seems the rust have been cleaned after inspection?

If I don't make an error, this tells much more.

what other "evidence" have been cleaned.
I remember of cooling circuit fluid (which thus may be salted, eg for
highering vaporisation temp)...

Being a bit naive I would say it is not smart to clean evidences when you
want to convince someone it works, and it is indeed working.
If my insurance company says I lie to them about a catastrophe in my house,
my best reaction is to protect all evidences, to protect the scene until
the company's expert (and mine) can see the reality without losing any
details of convincing evidences.

It really make you like you are hiding evidences.


2016-08-26 0:03 GMT+02:00 Jed Rothwell :

> a.ashfield  wrote:
>
> Murray is speculating the stains he saw were proof.
>>
>
> Okay, that is a different story. But I think *you* are speculating here.
> You speculate that stains are not proof.
>
> I suppose just about anyone would agree that a rust water mark in a pipe
> and in an instrument is there because that's how high the water was. I
> would say that goes beyond speculation, right to the level of common-sense
> proof. I doubt you will find a plumber or some expert on pipes who looks at
> a stain and comes up with some other explanation. I doubt that you can
> think up some other plausible explanation, and if you do, you will be
> speculating.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Article: This new equation might finally unite the two biggest theories in physics, physicist claims

[Alain Sepeda]

people interested in Grand Unification maye be interested by this approach
of MiHsC that link basic newtonian graviation with Heisenberg Uncertainty

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ge_ukRbuOw

MiHsC need to be studied, to be improved or refuted, as it is one of the
few coherent way to make really QM and gravitation converge.

Michael McCulloch claims it explains roughly without tuning the recently
found anomalies in dwarf galaxies, EmDrive (even some negative=tiny
results). His claims have to be confirmed sincerely (the hardes is to find
someone skeptical but not in love with debunking methods), and then
improved with good math.

my feeling is that if Einstein GR geometry is in competition with MiHsC
(which is based on SR and QM), the symmetry founding GR is respected by GU
theories, as is Heisenberg Uncertainty.

My naive feeling is that Michael McCulloch need some help from someone
knowing well GR geometry, QM, and sincerely interested in improving MiHsC
(Like was the mathematicien of Einstein).

On point on which I wonder is if MiHsC can explain black hole observation,
gravitational waves, gravitational lenses.

2016-08-18 14:06 GMT+02:00 Jack Cole :

> This new equation might finally unite the two biggest theories in physics,
> physicist claims
>
> http://flip.it/nxwTOa
>

Re: [Vo]:LEM Drive testable hypothesis

[Alain Sepeda]

Mike just found a video explaining one of his paper
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ge_ukRbuOw

how heisenberg uncertainty principle explains gravity

2016-07-16 12:41 GMT+02:00 Jack Cole :

> Mike McCulloch has come up with a way to test his MiHsC theory, which he
> has applied to the EM Drive.  I have some skepticism about the EM Drive
> based on some negative reports that I have read, but more testing is
> needed.  Anyway, at least McCulloch has developed an idea for an experiment
> that would falsify his theory and would be an amazingly simple drive system
> for spacecraft if it works.  He proposes using a simple loop of fiber optic
> cable with a metal barrier on one side to dampen Unruh waves.
>
>  http://physicsfromtheedge.blogspot.com/2016/07/lemdrive.html
>
> Jack
>

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Alain Sepeda]

2016-06-06 2:25 GMT+02:00 Jed Rothwell :

> Has Rossi told you anything about the configuration? Has he told you
> whether the pipe has a flowmeter or a thermocouple?


Just a naive question.
Why didn't they simply install a (high temp) gas flow meter at the exit of
the reactor.
If the meter only measure volume (not mass?) and assuming steam is dry,
measurement is precise.

if steam is wet, the measurement is not far from real since volume and heat
of water is small.

this would be simple and clear for steam calorimetry?

Is my reasoning too naive?

[Vo]:New Mizuno Patent, with clear descriptions of nanostructured material and plasma reactor...

[Alain Sepeda]

Hi,
maybe you missed the recent patent by Clean Planet/Mizuno
https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/3306-Mizuno-USPTO-Patent-Application-June-2-2016/

The claims are quite clear and innovative from what I understand

I feel it can be replicated.

"claims 1 is quite simple et probably a good hint for replicators

​A reactant installed in a reactor having a deuterium gas atmosphere, a
heavy water gas atmosphere, a protium gas atmosphere or a light water gas
atmosphere, wherein the reactant is formed from a hydrogen storage metal,
and a plurality of metal nano-protrusions, each of which has a nano-size of
1000 [nm] or smaller, are formed on a surface of the reactant.



there are variations; precisions :

   - nano-protrusions with a width of 300 [nm]


   - the metal nano-protrusions are metal nanoparticles having a curved
   surface in which a part of a spherical particle, an elliptical particle
   or an egg-shaped particle is embedded in the surface


   - a thin wire formed from the hydrogen storage metal in a reticulated
   shape, wherein the metal nano-protrusions are formed on a surface of the
   thin wire


   - the reactant is electrically connected to an electric power source,
   and works as an electrode for generating plasma in the reactor


   - a plurality of fine particle bodies of hydrogen storage metal, which
   are smaller than the metal nano-protrusions and are formed from the
   hydrogen storage metal, are deposited on the surfaces of the metal
   nano-protrusions, and the surfaces of the metal nanoparticles are formed
   to be in an uneven state (?()​ due to the fine particle bodies of the
   hydrogen storage metal.
   - a plurality of fine particle bodies of hydrogen storage metal, which
   are smaller than the metal nano-protrusions and are formed from the
   hydrogen storage metal, are deposited on the surfaces of the metal
   nano-protrusions, and the surfaces of the metal nanoparticles are formed to
   be in an uneven state due to the fine particle bodies of the hydrogen
   storage metal. ...
   - fine particle bodies of the hydrogen storage metal are formed from a
   hydrogen storage metal which is different from the hydrogen storage
   metal of the metal nano-protrusions... metal nano-protrusions are formed
   from any one of hydrogen storage metals among Ni, Pt and Pd, and the
   fine particle bodies of the hydrogen storage metal are formed from a
   hydrogen storage metal among Ni, Pt and Pd, which is different from that of
   the metal nano-protrusions."

Re: [Vo]:Rossi vs I.H.

[Alain Sepeda]

what seems unavoidable is that IH was unable to replicate. Question is if
they could not replicate anything, or just replicate something usable.

Fraud is not even a problem if it works for IH.
Doubt on methodology is also a problem with a test.
Dubious behavior is also a possible problem, increasing question on methods.

but who cares if the factory is made of hardpaper, if E-cat works in IH
labs.

2016-05-24 14:30 GMT+02:00 a.ashfield :

> Jed,
>
> ""[Vo]:1 MW of heat in a 6,500 sq. ft. facility without industrial
> ventilation would be fatal""
>
> Why did you set up that straw man in the first place?  Is your source
> Dewey Weaver?  I see he earlier wrote many of the same things you have.
>
>
> As I said, the Rossi affair reminds me of Fleischmann and Pons, where the
> poorly executed efforts at replication were sufficient to get academia and
> the supposed experts to pile on and accuse them of fraud.   It is not clear
> to me whether IH's statement is that the 1 MW plant didn't work or that
> that they can't duplicate the results.
>
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Apologize?

[Alain Sepeda]

This is a painful problem with skeptics, who in fact prevent sincere
questioner to think straight from evidences.

Rossi have a controversial story about Petrol dragon, but nothing
definitive except some loose behavior with taxes and environmental
regulations.
For the US Army TEG projet, there is strange things, but agains nothing
definitive.

For many previous test, there was many questions, but all was so badly done
that it could not be definitive.
Krivit, who is a sincere LENR reporter, with a tendency to amplify the
pathos and develop conspiracy theories, noticed a very important fact when
Rossi refused him to see too many things on his reactor... whether it was
IP protection, or stage magic hiding, is again an open question.

More seriously conspiracy theories, often unrealistic, hide real problems.
I remember from the Defkalion demo that Gamberale later denounced the many
conspiracy theories on electric circuits, and the self confidence of
skeptics, while there was simpàly missing data. Hopefully Luca completed
the file and make the conclusion clear.
Before we have good data, skeptics should simply have raised the
possibility of a problem, and supporters raise the possibility of a real
phenomenon, instead of both being sure of their theory.

For Lugano test, there was initial erroneous theories (inverted clamps)
against success , until Thomas found the problem of window and total
emissivity discrepancy, confirmed by MFMP test. He is still unable to admit
the inverted clamp theory was just wrong.

For isotopic test there was the stage magic theory, assuming Rossi was a
prestidigitator, but it fogged the question. the key problem in the test is
simply that what was extracted from the reactor is probably not the same as
what was put in.


The problem is that many people concluded while not leaving the question
open... open on both directions.
Concluding too early push contradictors (like me) to radicalize on the
opposite.
This does not helps me to make my own opinion.





2016-05-23 4:37 GMT+02:00 OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson <
orionwo...@charter.net>:

> The following commentary is not an attempt on my part to justify, or
> endorse Rossi's recent professional behavior.
>
>
>
> While some might suggest we need to apologize to Mr. Krivit I feel no
> desire to endorse let alone enable investigative reporting tactics that
> repeatedly exploit phrases like "convicted fraudster" or "convicted white
> collar criminal" to characterize Rossi's prior business activities. Does
> Rossi's prior fraud charges prove his current business actions are just as
> bogus? Sure, it's tantalizing to assume that might be the case. I can see
> why one might think it is a correct assumption to draw. Unfortunately,
> doing so is nothing more than playing the game of guilt-by-association. The
> point being: What does playing the guilt-by-association game have to do
> with investigative reporting of the current evidence? It strikes me more as
> a tactic a prosecutor attorney would attempt to exploit to build a case of
> damning evidence, assuming the court doesn't bar him from doing so due to
> irrelevance to current circumstances. It's my understanding that Mr. Krivit
> wants to be perceived as an objective independent investigator/journalist.
> If that is the case, why does his investigative reporting on Rossi
> repeatedly include phrases like "convicted of fraud" and " convicted
> white-collar criminal " over and over, typically near the beginning of
> another damming Rossi article? Doing so, strikes me as more the actions
> that a prosecuting attorney would exploit to insinuate to the jury that the
> defendant on trial is guilty. But what do such insinuations have to do with
> judging the contents of the latest experimental evidence under fire between
> Rossi and I.H? It strikes me as something an investigative reporter might
> feel inclined to include if he lacked confidence in being able to stand
> alone in his ability to deconstruct the alleged veracity of Rossi's current
> experimental claims. For that suspicion alone, I feel no inclination to
> offer apologies.
>
>
>
> It makes me think Mr. Krivit may have chosen the wrong profession to excel
> at. I hope he eventually finds his true calling. Everyone deserves to
> embark on his true calling. God only knows it's taken me damned near a
> life-time to find a few special callings of my own to slave away at until I
> die.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Steven Vincent Johnson
>
> orionworks.com
>
> http://www.zazzle.com/orionworks
>
> http://stevenvincentjohnson.bandcamp.com
>

Re: [Vo]:Rossi vs I.H.

[Alain Sepeda]

Just forget calorimetry.

IH have a licend to E-cat technology and derivation.
If E-cat work they will make billions of $ of benefits, sharing par with
Rossi, who will also make billion on other geographic zones like EU...

It would be stupid thus to be in trouble with Rossi, to risk to lose the
license, and nobody even POTUS can pay enough to  convince someone of
abandoning those billions.

if IH have reasonable hope that E-cat works they will care not to hurt the
personality of Rossi because they are dependent on him.


conclusion :
IH have never succeeded in making an E-cat work ("could not substantiate")
IH think they will never be able to make an E-cat work as the process is
engaged (need to force IP transfer or dump the contract).

now this does not says is the 1MW*350days calorimetry was good, if the
client was real or dummy, ...

This just say this is unimportant.

I don't care if Ford won Formula 1 championchip, if my Ford car cannot
start.


2016-05-23 4:37 GMT+02:00 OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson <
orionwo...@charter.net>:

> I have rejoined vortex briefly to express a couple of cents. I don't
> expect to stay her long. It's too damned addictive.
>
>
>
> OK... Regarding the latest Rossi vs I.H. saga:
>
>
>
> Having observed Jed's eclectic contributions to the Vort Collective since
> the 1990s it's been my experience that few Vort members have been as
> thorough, meticulously so, or as objective, as Mr. Rothwell has been when
> it comes to evaluating basic calorimetry. Because I'm not an expert in
> calorimetry it behooves me to carefully evaluate the opinions and
> assessments of those who, in my opinion, are experienced experts in the
> field. Having observed the quality of Mr. Rothwell's posts for more than
> three decades I have no problem yielding to most of his extensive
> experience (and opinion) on such matters. I should also mention that I'm
> willing to listen to Ed Storm's opinions and evaluations as well,. I gather
> Ed may have possibly concluded a very different scenario concerning Rossi's
> alleged professional proclivities. Evaluating Mr. Rothwell's opinions,
> combined with Ed Storms, and perhaps a few others can certainly give me a
> lot to chew on!
>
>
>
> I am not in a position to determine whether Rossi is or isn't a fraud.
> Meanwhile, Jed has access to crucial I.H. calorimetric data that most of us
> in the peanut gallery don't possess. Jed appears to have come to the
> conclusion that Rossi's recent actions concerning his dealings with I.H.
> indicate strong fraudulent activity. Again, I yield to Jed's extensive
> experience (and opinion) concerning calorimetric issues while I also
> continue to keep Ed Storm's opinions on the matter in the mixture as well.
>
>
>
> One can come up with a million different reasons as to why we flawed human
> beings occasionally behave in seemingly evasive and dishonest ways. Buyer
> beware.
>
>
>
> While I remain fascinated by this latest Rossi saga, a saga which is still
> unfolding, I find myself even more fascinated by the amount of bargaining
> (of the Elisabeth Kubler-Ross kind) that I see coming from certain Vort
> participants as they go about challenging Mr. Rothwell's, latest Rossi
> criticisms. I remain fascinated that some of these posters seem incapable
> of entertaining the possibility that Rossi's calorimetric claims might
> indeed be worthless, or worse, possibly even fraudulent. Why is it
> important to cast so much doubt on Mr. Rothwell's latest Rossi assessments?
> I can think of one possibility:
>
>
>
> As a former member of Dr. Mills SCP Yahoo group I observed a lot of smart
> observant posters occasionally asking difficult questions of the good
> doctor. Unfortunately, I also observed a lot of hero worshiping of the good
> doctor. I suspect certain posts I made concerning observations I made that
> seemed to suggest there existed an ardent cheerleading section may have
> contributed to me being kicked out by Dr. Mills himself. Lately, I see a
> similar kind of hero worshipping occurring within the Vort Collective among
> certain posters. I find myself wondering what are the chances are that any
> of these worshipers have accumulated anywhere near the amount of
> calorimetric experience that Mr. Rothwell has accumulated. Under the
> circumstances, what can an ardent worshipper do? One option is to fall back
> on a relentless campaign of Elisabeth Kubler-Ross bargaining against Jed's
> calorimetric evaluations.
>
>
>
> I suspect Jed will eventually tire of participating in this futile tactic
> since it seems clear to me that worshipers have no intention of abandoning
> their currently chosen idol. I'm astounded that Jed hasn't already given up
> on this futile task.
>
>
>
> At present I lack sufficient evidence to arrive at a conclusion that
> suggests ALL of Rossi's experimental devices have never worked. I realize I
> could be wrong on this point but I still find it plausible to speculate
> that Rossi may have 

Re: [Vo]:Details of the Thermacore runaway in 1996

[Alain Sepeda]

AFAIK this kind of reaction is regularly observed by accident in various
similar situations.
;-)

most don't know they see LENR. they just see they have to redo all again.


2016-05-19 22:53 GMT+02:00 Jones Beene :

> Dave,
>
> You are not alone – few know of this incident. But it’s not a sensible
> choice to base anything regarding the validity of LENR on Rossi’s
> problems with IH. The technology will survive, but Rossi’s lack of
> credibility could taint the field and impede progress for years.
>
> The Thermacore runaway, as impressive as it was, has not previously been
> reported. To put it (the runaway) into context, there had already been a
> fatality at SRI a few years before (unrelated). It was not known back
> then, in the mid-nineties, whether the reaction was safe or not especially
> when drastically scaled up (2-3 orders of magnitude). The Thermacore
> incident was not reported for any number of legal and liability reasons, not
> to mention OSHA - and the project was canceled immediately.
>
> The Company was only interested in the scale-up potential of it, so it
> was nixed. Ahern’s sources of information on this are impeccable.
>
> BTW – to my knowledge, no one since then has tried an experiment with a
> similarly large mass of potentially active material but it could easily
> be the case that there is a “critical mass” equivalent, even if that term
> is shoehorned into QM (or CQM).
>
> There are in fact, a number of scientific papers on “entanglement mass”
> which would be the corollary. I’m glad they weren’t  using deuterium.
>
> *From:* David Roberson
>
> Jones,
>
>
>
> Is it possible to find another source to back up what you are describing
> in this event?   A second written record would be fine if available.
>
>
>
> I have not heard of that particular thermal run away reaction that you
> have listed below but would find it interesting to follow up on.  The
> recent negative information that is coming out pertaining to Rossi is
> beginning to concern me and your example seems like just the medicine
> needed to cure that problem.
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Cheap Solar Power (harvard.edu)

[Alain Sepeda]

to be clear it is long ago proven that hormesis is real, thet there is
structural threshold in genotoxic effects, ...

As much as LENR is long time measured, ormesis and threshold are measured.
much meter tha Rossi's calorimetry.

every 6 month someone say that we have at last found that, and nobody
cares...
we are unders propaganda war , and this is hopeless.


there is no epidemiology, nor biological tknowledge on cancerogenesis and
genotoxicity that makes that result surpsing.


latest I caught is
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/03/160316085015.htm
but there are papers since decades on that.

LLNT is a joke, but news and politics are full of joke.

2016-05-13 15:37 GMT+02:00 Chris Zell :

> I agree.  There is too much assumption that harm created by pollution or
> radiation is perfectly linear, down to tiny amounts.  There doesn't seem to
> be any allowance for hormesis.   And, yes, I own solar panels.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: a.ashfield [mailto:a.ashfi...@verizon.net]
> Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 5:58 PM
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Cheap Solar Power (harvard.edu)
>
> Jed,
>
> I think the numbers killed by power plants, at least in the US,are very
> flakey.
> Likewise the number skilled by particulates from indoor cooking relies on
> models that are probably as bad as IPCC's models of global warming.
> I'm not interested enough to spend the time it would take to prove it.
>
> I'll believe photo voltaic power is cheaper when I actually see it. For
> lighting with a cheap system remember the sun goes away when it gets dark.
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Let's continue to think about passive vs active approach to LENR 's existentil problems

[Alain Sepeda]

Maybe it is not so important.

DGT and Rossi triggered something, pushing rational people to look at
rational science done before.
The irrational part of those two stories (I'm less sure Rossi have nothing,
but innovation is more than just technology), unlocked the irrational latch
against past rational research.
I just hope it will be confirmed soon.

Until things clear up from Miami to Raleigh, there are probably place with
more importance.
Don't bother, don't panic.



2016-05-09 14:22 GMT+02:00 Lennart Thornros :

> Hi Jed,
> I actually said that negotiations maybe under way. I certainly cannot
> prove the negative so here is what I said.
> "Maybe it is underway in a silent format.".
>
> Best Regards ,
> Lennart Thornros
>
>
> lenn...@thornros.com
> +1 916 436 1899
>
> Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
> enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)
>
>
> On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 4:03 AM, Kevin O'Malley 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for posting that.  It reinforces my recent viewpoint that this
>> area is now ripe for fraud and fantastic magicians who know of a great
>> chemical trick that confounds trained observers.
>>
>> But I take heart in Houdini's magic trick when he visited Tunisia
>> to fight piracy and challenged their  strongest men to lift the box that he
>> carried onto the stage.  4 of their strongest men couldn't do it.  Houdini
>> lifted the box easily by flicking the electromagnetic switch between him
>> and the stage.  He demonstrated American superiority in magic.  Yes, those
>> observers still believed in magic at the time.
>>
>>  I think what we have here is a modern Houdini, but far more brilliant.
>>
>>   But the outcome was electromagnetic switches, so we're all winners...
>>
>> On Sun, May 8, 2016 at 2:10 PM, a.ashfield 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Frank Znidarsic,
>>> I think you are being unfair to Rossi.  It has not been "A very long
>>> time" to develop what is a completely new technology.
>>> In recent years, Rossi has in fact done what he said he would do.  You
>>> have no proof that the 1 MW plant didn't work and I remain optimistic about
>>> new developments.  He sued IH not the other way around.
>>>
>>> me356 said it well in his recent report.
>>>
>>> "Now I understand perfectly why Rossi is working on the e-cat so long.
>>> You have something that is working, you have a prototypes and you are
>>> nearly ready for mass production. Then you will find something amazing,
>>> that can increase the excess heat significantly so that previous work is
>>> not important anymore. But there are again many difficulties and unknown
>>> things that it can take a few years to get a fully working prototype based
>>> on the new discoveries, but it is surely worth. You can continue endlessly,
>>> because LENR is opening doors of something completely unknown and much
>>> more. not just energy conversion. It is possible that in 10 years,
>>> everything will be completely different."
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: EXTERNAL: [Vo]: Rossi: 1MW Plant Customer Bought Three More Plants

[Alain Sepeda]

my interpretation of substantiate is that they cannot replicate themselves.

If I was a VC like IH, I would not be afraid if a test fail, as long as my
test are OK.
but I will panic if the opposite.

2016-04-15 21:51 GMT+02:00 Jed Rothwell :

> a.ashfield  wrote:
>
> You are certain Rossi is a fraud, the ERV report is rubbish and the E-Cat
>> doesn't work.
>>
>
> Let us put aside fraud for a moment. The press releases make it clear that
> Rossi says there is fifty times input, whereas I.H. says it did not work.
> They were not able to "substantiate" the claims. That means they do not
> think there was significant excess heat.
>
> If I.H. is right then yes, the ERV report must be rubbish and the E-cat
> doesn't work.
>
> If Rossi is right, I.H.'s conclusions are rubbish.
>
> One of them must be drastically wrong. Based on their previous work, I
> would say Rossi is wrong.
>
> (I hope no one quibbles about the word "substantiate." Whatever it means,
> it rules out 50 times input.)
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Next Big Future - goes out on a limb

[Alain Sepeda]

A real client happy of making usual production of real things, is really a
good evidence.
An industrial production line is designed to make the most product for the
least heat, so if the production is good, the bill is low, and the ratio
much above margin of error, then I can trust.

The problem is only to have a real client, and not a shell company hiring
an actor.

If the factory is making steam cake, all I need to the number of cake and
the electric bill. provided the client is really an industrialists who
optimised his production line since long.

if ratio is >4, that is good.

if the client is not real, situation is desperate.

We don't have the data to be sure.

all i see is someone owning license on a goose laying golden goose who flee
like a chicken. This is indirect data.

2016-04-14 23:36 GMT+02:00 Alan Fletcher :

> Siferkol reported in April 2015
> https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/news/index.php/News/91-Sifferk%C3%B6ll-First-Hand-Information-from-Visitors-of-the-Industrial-Heat-E-Cat-Cus/
>
> I know first hand from very reliable sources that themselves have visited
> the Rossi/Industrial Heat
> 
> E-Cat customer that the plant works very well. This has been verified both
> by measurements made by the customer and by significantly reduced
> electricity bills. The plant seems to be able to produce heat from
> electricity with a COP in the range of 20-80 depending on the level of
> self-sustain-mode applied. I guess that is what Rossi is working on right
> now.
>
> The implications of COP in this range is of course nothing less than …
> revolutionary … ”a tipping point” to quote Tom Darden
>
> This is a good day!
>
> Mats Lewan confirmed : UPDATE: Since a COP (Coefficient of Performance —
> output energy/input energy) ranging from 20 to 80 has been reported, I can
> confirm that I have got the same information.
>
>
> --
> *From: *"Jed Rothwell" 
> *To: *"vortex-l" 
> *Sent: *Thursday, April 14, 2016 11:40:18 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [Vo]:Next Big Future - goes out on a limb
>
> a.ashfield  wrote:
>
>
>> You write about claims of a COP of 80.  My recollection was that it
>> peaked at 60 and we don't really know what the average was.
>
>
> You may be right. I tend to get numbers wrong.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Rossi/E-Cat lawsuit: A long-in-the-making set-up job..?

[Alain Sepeda]

All report I have on Thomas darden are very kind, exceptionally kind,  and
others scientists working with him are happy.
This affair was the occasion to learn from people who met him, who he was.
No doubt he is professional, but not only.
Like most here I expected something with many shades of grey, but there is
more light than usual there.

The case is complex, and at least we should not take a position without the
data.
If one absolutely want to take a position, just take the CV and the
anecdotes about each character and guess what happened.

I personally eliminate the Mary Yugo position it is a scam, but it may be a
sad story.

My best hope is that it is just a problem of sincere collaboration. You
don't marry if you refuse the share the same bed.

2016-04-12 6:41 GMT+02:00 Che :

>
>
> On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 9:10 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> Thomas Darden shall not avoid the requirements of the Licence Agreement
>> and pay Rossi what is agreed upon. The positive ERV is the ONLY requirement
>> for payment defined in the LA. Even the Pope must follow the law. Being
>> a sainted person does not give that person the right to ignore
>> a legally binding agreement.
>>
>
>
> Why the blazes is this troll here defending a vulture capitalist outfit
> which is welching on a contract which has quite apparently NOT been voided
> on the Rossi side..? I read the entire legal complaint. This *all* hinges
> on the outcome of the long-term validation process. My understanding is
> that this *was* a success.
>
> Who's lying here... and why?
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Defending Rossi at this point is an action of the absolute naive

[Alain Sepeda]

This is important to judge the possibility of various "misconducts".
The conviction tax fraud was done to escape the trouble of the bankruptcy.
a desperate maneuver. The one about gold seems more to be a problem with
badly manager legal framework (recycling metal wastes).
Environmental crimes were apparently not taking care of a changing legal
framework (oil became waste), and maybe also loose management of the site.

Both this pattern are very interesting to predict the problem around E-cat
affair.

Desperate maneuver to save a business and fortune.
Not taking care of legal framework.
Problem of industrialisation, of quality of the production.
Loose management of the site.

Not upfront scam.

anyway the opposition against LENr will not make a difference between bad
quality of the product and inexistence of LENR.

I prepare for a terrible damage control like after the desperate maneuver
of Defkalion to save their business.

2016-04-12 2:17 GMT+02:00 Blaze Spinnaker <blazespinna...@gmail.com>:

> tax fraud is tax fraud.   Even if he was cleared in court of other things,
> a pattern exists.
>
> Anyways, the real point here is it's time for  his fan base to tell him to
> put up or shut up.
>
> On Monday, April 11, 2016, Alain Sepeda <alain.sep...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It is wrong to say Rossi have a pattern of fraud. He is cleared of that
>> in court, and the pattern of the affair in italy looks more like bad
>> industrialization facing mafia of wastes.
>>
>> he have however a pattern of :
>> - industrialization problems(Petroldragon, BiTe TEG, E-cat)
>> - loose evidences (TEG, E-cat demo 1/2, Ferrara, lugano)
>> - secrecy and lack of trust
>> - inflated expectations (Petroldragon, TEG, E-cat)
>>
>> about IH , I see no other partner who moan on them.
>>
>> Don't put on malice what you can put on lack of rigor and distrust on
>> humanity.
>>
>>
>> 2016-04-11 14:59 GMT+02:00 Blaze Spinnaker <blazespinna...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Look, I am hopeful he actually has 50x COP... But seriously folks.
>>> Thomas Darden had an impeccable reputation.  He also went out on a limb and
>>> gave Rossi 11m plus USD.
>>>
>>> Rossi, on the hand, has absolutely nothing but a pattern of fraud and
>>> deceit.
>>>
>>> 50x COP is an absolute crazy number when he could barely show anything
>>> realiably in any previous test.
>>>
>>> Let's hope it proves true, but at this point even the most ardent
>>> believer should be exceedingly skeptical until Rossi ponies up something
>>> real or we get some very very solid replications.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [Vo]:Defending Rossi at this point is an action of the absolute naive

[Alain Sepeda]

the claim is an article in Il coriere dela serra where the unbiased
journalist was really upset that he was only condemned for environmental
infrigment and tax fraud..

I gathered many article in that thread
http://www.lenr-forum.com/old-forum-static/t-2384.html

.

2016-04-11 18:36 GMT+02:00 Jones Beene :

> *From:* alain.coetm...@gmail.com
>
> It is wrong to say Rossi have a pattern of fraud. He is cleared of that in
> court…
>
> Alain – Not so fast.
>
> Answer me this, even Rossi has NEVER said he was cleared of all of the
> many felonies he served time for in Italy – only the one from
> Petroldragon. Most were for Tax evasion, but is that OK?
>
> And at best - your argument is with Gary Wright and other skeptics in
> Italy who claim to have checked with Italian authorities on Rossi’s claim
> that he had the prior convictions overturned. Have you actually seen the
> paper work from Italy to verify your claim that he was cleared? They say
> he was not cleared.
>
> That could be yet another of Rossi’s lies. Of course, you can say that
> Wright or the other skeptics are also lying - but their claims are now
> looking more realistic, now that Industrial Heat says Rossi is lying -
> and that IH witnessed no overunity. As you know IH is credible, even if
> Rossi and his critics are not.
>
> Aren’t you overlooking that the other felonies, at the very least?
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Defending Rossi at this point is an action of the absolute naive

[Alain Sepeda]

It is wrong to say Rossi have a pattern of fraud. He is cleared of that in
court, and the pattern of the affair in italy looks more like bad
industrialization facing mafia of wastes.

he have however a pattern of :
- industrialization problems(Petroldragon, BiTe TEG, E-cat)
- loose evidences (TEG, E-cat demo 1/2, Ferrara, lugano)
- secrecy and lack of trust
- inflated expectations (Petroldragon, TEG, E-cat)

about IH , I see no other partner who moan on them.

Don't put on malice what you can put on lack of rigor and distrust on
humanity.


2016-04-11 14:59 GMT+02:00 Blaze Spinnaker :

> Look, I am hopeful he actually has 50x COP... But seriously folks.
> Thomas Darden had an impeccable reputation.  He also went out on a limb and
> gave Rossi 11m plus USD.
>
> Rossi, on the hand, has absolutely nothing but a pattern of fraud and
> deceit.
>
> 50x COP is an absolute crazy number when he could barely show anything
> realiably in any previous test.
>
> Let's hope it proves true, but at this point even the most ardent believer
> should be exceedingly skeptical until Rossi ponies up something real or we
> get some very very solid replications.
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:I.H. press release responding to Rossi

[Alain Sepeda]

just a naive/stupid idea ?
does IH just want Rossi to bring good and solid evidence to the court, so
they have to pay, and then be rich with LENR industry, whoever's technology
is used and paid ?

after all, who cares if E-cat can be sold.
if E-cat is proven to work, instantly thousands of startup will bring new
technologies around LENR, some reactors, and some just applications.
VC and crowdfunding will fuel research and developments...

who will care of someone who sued his VC?

2016-04-08 23:48 GMT+02:00 Jed Rothwell :

> Axil Axil  wrote:
>
> No, IH wants to know how Rossi can get a COP of 50 and they can't.
>>
>
> Sure they can. Just pay him $89 million. He would then have to abide by
> the contract.
>
> If, as you say, he does not want to abide by it, he can refuse the money.
> He is not refusing it. He is suing to get it!
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

[Alain Sepeda]

about Penon "non independence", except having an italian name and having
done a previous test, is there any relationship established with rossi
predating the Ferrara test ?

for the rest I agree, a good HVAC engineer would do it better.

2016-04-07 4:06 GMT+02:00 Jed Rothwell :

> Lennart Thornros  wrote:
>
>
>> 1. Based on his previous work, Penon is not qualified to do calorimetry. I
>> have no clue about how well you know this guys qualifications except you
>> read a report you think was flawed. If the COP was 50, then I (and I am not
>> good at calorimetry) could give the answer that at least COP6 was reached.
>>
>
> As it happens, I just posted a message describing some of the reasons I am
> not impressed.
>
> If you read the report, and you were impressed, I think you need to learn
> a little more about calorimetry. It was as bad as the Lugano report. Some
> of the same mistakes were in both.
>
>
>
>> 3. He is not licensed in Florida to do this kind of measurement. Sorry
>> but license is just an issue of passing a simple exam and pay the fees. I
>> know there is probably some experience required but that can always be
>> fixed - believe me.BTW if he is licensed anywhere would that make a
>> difference.
>>
>
> A license and the proper procedures can be the difference between life and
> death. The exams are NOT simple. I have seen them, and I am sure I would
> fail them.
>
> I have never worked with large industrial equipment. But I have been in
> factories, and in ship engine rooms. I have talked to OSHA inspectors and
> HVAC engineers. My late father was fireman first class in the engine room
> of a steamship built around 1910, and he told me a lot about it. He did
> that for 6 years until his arm was crushed in an accident. There are not
> one, not two, but DOZENS of ways you can kill yourself, blow up the
> building or sink the ship when you make a mistake with a boiler. Even
> today, with all the automatic controls, it is still dangerous. And yes, you
> can confuse 200 kW with 1 MW (or vice versa) by doing it wrong. That is why
> boilers blow up. Look at Defkalion for an example of how badly you can make
> a mistake doing industrial scale calorimetry.
>
>
>
>> 4. I. H. said they disagree with the result. They know more about
>> calorimetry than Penon does, so I am inclined to believe them. Now you
>> are way out of line. IH does not know anything.
>>
>
> I have met with those people at conferences. I can judge their knowledge.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Is this true?

[Alain Sepeda]

from my theory of who were the bullies getting away from US, and from
public funded research would have solved the problem.

It solved the problem, so maybe my theory is good.

no business involved.

just read Ed Storms opinion
http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/12/06/self-interest-and-lenr-edmund-storms/

and Mallove impression at MIT
http://www.larouchepub.com/eiw/public/1991/eirv18n37-19910927/eirv18n37-19910927_052-clearing_the_air_about_the_cold.pdf

Scientist believe in what they are paid for, and are afraid to lose their
budget if people stop believing in their budget .

any similarity with other popular science, where dissenters are intimidated
is
[pop] [pop]

sorry, they caught me.
you don't kill a trillion budget of public money that way without being
eliminated, at least from high impact journal.


2016-04-05 3:53 GMT+02:00 Jed Rothwell :

> Russ George  wrote:
>
>>
>> There is no reason to think that ‘threats’ to Pons would be alleviated by
>> moving to France, that’s just plain absurd.
>>
>
> The threats *were* alleviated! No one bothered them in France.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Is this true?

[Alain Sepeda]

Amoco and Shell investigated LENR, as team in Framatome, CEA.

only menace and bullying I've heard report indirectly here are :
- horse manure in mail box (Bockris?)
- 3 inquiry launched fro fraud against Bockris
- bad joke with cell put in a nuclear reactor (who?)
- CEA lab boss blocking LENr research by fear to miss Nobel
- CNRS, CEA, EDF forbidding all researchers and engineers to work on LENR
- BARC abandoning LENR research because it was bad for their image

no oil company involved.
I think it is unfair.

the fraudster and the bulliers have a common affiliation,.
I let you guess.


2016-04-04 22:36 GMT+02:00 Jed Rothwell :

> Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>
>> I looked up Stanley Pons in the phone book and noticed he lived only a
>> few blocks from me, so one day I walked over and knocked on his door. What
>> came next surprised me–I saw a man who was truly afraid. He looked like his
>> mind was racing and he was confused and frightened. He said he had been
>> receiving death threats, and threats on the lives of his children. “I have
>> to leave the country!” he said. He could not confirm it, but suspected the
>> death threats were tied to oil companies.
>>
>
> I never heard the part about oil companies, but he did get death threats
> and he was freaked out.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Rossi and IH have received the ERV Report

[Alain Sepeda]

On the opposite for a conspiracy theorist, in general, there is no 3rd
party, except himself.
Anyone who disagree with the conclusion is considered part of the giant
conspiracy.

There is no absolute third party as interest and incentive connect, in both
positive and negative direction, all players.
NB: people forget often the non-third party player who have incentive not
to accept reality (eg: an academic of an UL who would prefer to pretend
uncertainty while there is none, just to save his reputation, or avoid he
have been wrong before - see Tajmar and EmDrive )

however if nobody is totally third party, the fact to participate to a
fraud, ask for a really high level in commitment with the fraudster, and
increase the chance of leak for each new member in the conspiracy.

My conclusion is that there is no conspiracy except when public,
authorities, powerful actors, reference actors, ask for it and punish the
traitors.
The only conspiracy is a consensus. there is public whistleblowers who are
ignored, and mindguards who punish them to challenge the public consensus.
This is not a conspiracy but a groupthink, mutual assured delusion as
Benabou name it.

now apply my theory to LENR domain, or to other subject, and things get
clearer...

2016-03-30 3:27 GMT+02:00 Daniel Rocha :

>
> Rossi's definition of 3rd party is somewhat exotic.
>

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat progress

[Alain Sepeda]

Industrialization failure would not be a surprise at all, with a report
saying it is leaking, melting, breaking from all side...
If so, the interest if IH is simply to keep the report secret and work on
improving the reliability until they can deliver a reactor that work , in
the industrial way, at least 3 nines.

we should not mix the risk of an unreliable device, and the fear of a total
non existence of the LENR...
The risk of non-existent LENR is below the risk of astronauts not to have
walked on the moon.



2016-03-21 21:22 GMT+01:00 a.ashfield :

> I don't understand why people like Jones make what look like libelous
> comments about Rossi, but they do.
>
> Responsible companies like Cherokee and Woodford Equity do due diligence.
> They would be liable for legal consequences if the plant didn't exist and
> yet they have claimed they did due diligence.  I think enough people have
> seen it by now that news would have leaked if it was a failure.  All we
> hear is that it is working  well.  In fact Industrial Heat would not have
> supported it for a full year if it obviously didn't work.
>
> Rossi is fast running out of head room too.  He will have to come up with
> some kind of report by mid April and is scheduled to be interviewed in Mats
> Lewan's Conference in June.  He has said he expects to be able to give some
> details of the E-CatX at that time too.
>
>

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat progress

[Alain Sepeda]

saying it is a fraud seems not fair for me.
Lugano report is visibly insufficient, unlike anything manufactured to look
good.

Fraud looks perfect, that is a rule, and even a way to detect it.
it is easier to make a fake report that looks perfect than to make a good
one that looks fair.

There is a problem, either on the measurement (bad IR emissivity), or on
the justification of the measurement if their are not flawed (calibration).

Sadly this happens not only with rossi. Hopefully there is very good
reports in the domain.
Note that Ferrara report is much better, and the only theory is a
conspiracy theory which is not compatible with Lugano pathetic failure.
And finally best report is Industrial Heat shares moves.




2016-03-21 17:56 GMT+01:00 Jones Beene :

> For the record, this comment did not come from me. I do not waste time on
> Rossi’s absurd blog for one thing.
>
>
>
> One the contrary, in my opinion there is no valid proof of any large
> energy anomaly from Rossi which is not fully explained by Thermacore’s
> earlier and better work - nor is it certain that there is a “customer” at
> all - and a year’s worth of scientific data is extremely unlikely.
>
>
>
> The Lugano report was a fraud and an embarrassment to Levi and the Swedes
> - and in all probability the same will hold true from any new report
> –UNLESS Industrial Heat signs off on it. Otherwise, without IH fully
> backing it – it is worthless. Will they back it?
>
>
>
> One cannot read the recent press releases from IH and not realize that
> there could be trouble in paradise. In fact, they probably do not trust
> Rossi much more than Gary Wright does.
>
>
>
> Jones
>
>
>
> *From:* Peter Gluck
>
>
>
> have seen it earlier, OK, dear Adrian!
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
> a.ashfield wrote:
>
>
>
> Jones
> March 20, 2016 at 8:15 AM
>
> DR Rossi – interesting comment on Vortex-L by a ashfield could you comment
> on this:
>
> There must be an important clue in the new E-Cat X being so small – 100
> Watts. This would make a conventional control system for a large plant seem
> excessive. I wonder is the new design is sufficiently stable that, after
> start up, it can be controlled by varying the amount of electricity
> extracted.
> Andrea Rossi
> March 20, 2016 at 11:26 AM
>
> Jones:
> The comment on Vortex is intelligent.
> Warm Regards,
> A.R.
>
> I take this to mean it was a good idea but not how it is done. Adding to
> my previous thought, possibly if there is also a direct connection that
> would allow electric power/magnetic field to be fed to the E-Cat quarkX
> instead of heat.  It would be easier to get a fast response.  Wish we knew
> more about the X type.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Dr. Peter Gluck
>
> Cluj, Romania
>
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
>

Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

[Alain Sepeda]

the claim of shawyer is that the energy inside the cavity is destroyed by
acceleration. he propose something linked to doppler detuning.

this is one theory.

MiHsC have another vision where vacuum energy, information, horizon and
mach principle are important factors.

CoE, CoM are respected by Newton, Einstein,... They just change on what it
applies.

2016-03-14 19:44 GMT+01:00 David Roberson :

> Good argument.  I just wanted to add one thought.
>
> From the EM drive's point of view the CoE must be violated because as it
> accelerates in space a portion of it's mass must be converted into energy
> that is used to power the drive.  When it ceases to use the drive it begins
> to remain motionless in space from its point of view.   Where did that mass
> go which was converted into energy that powered the drive?  Did it simply
> vanish?
>
> This problem does not exist for normal rocket engines that expel a
> reaction mass.  In that case, the energy is accounted for by the mass that
> is speeding rapidly away from the rocket.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Vibrator ! 
> To: vortex-l 
> Sent: Mon, Mar 14, 2016 7:03 am
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)
>
> Yes, and this is why KE = 1/2 MV^2 - ie., why the acceleration unit cost
> escalates; a given force has to be applied over an ever-greater distance as
> velocity (time rate of change of position) increases.  Alternatively, we
> could hold displacement constant and progressively raise the force
> magnitude.
>
> Yet Craig still seems to have a point - without some kind of corporeal
> reaction mass, what is an EM drive's velocity actually relative to?  What's
> its reference frame, if not the thing it's pushing against?
>
> To illustrate the conundrum, suppose i have an EM drive aboard a train,
> and you the observer are standing on the platform as the train passes
> through the station:  I fire the engine, and it accelerates by 1 meter /
> sec.
>
> Suppose the engine weighs 10 kg.  From my perspective, its KE has
> increased by 5 Joules - ie. it's perrformed 5 J of mechanical work,
> regardless of how much more energy may have been wasted to heat.
>
> But if the train was already travelling at 10 m/s, and the drive
> accelerated in the same direction, then from your stationary perspective
> the drive has accelerated up from 10 to 11 m/s - and for a 10 kg mass
> that's a workload of 105 J - bringing its KE up from 500 J to 605 J.
>
> So, has the drive burned 5 J or 105 J?
>
>
> If i cheated - the drive doesn't really work, and i just gave it a
> surreptitious shove - this same paradox is resolved by a corresponding
> deceleration of the train - ie. if i accelerate a small mass against the
> inertia of a larger mass, the latter is decelerated and net momentum is
> conserved.
>
> Except here, the drive ISN'T pushing against the train.  Yet it still
> benefits from its ambient velocity.  Net momentum is NOT conserved, and
> neither is energy.
>
>
> And so the question arises, how does the EM drive "know" what its
> reference frame is?  Shawyer claims (or seems to imply) that the unit cost
> of acceleration increases as we would normally expect (distance over which
> a given force is applied keeps rising) - but how does it measure
> "distance"?  Relative to what, exactly?   Without physical reaction mass,
> such a system has its own unique reference frame - from within which,
> energy may be conserved, but which from without, cannot be.
>
> I mean this not as a crtitique against the plausibility of such systems,
> and share the prevailing cautious optimism.  But if they do work, then we
> also have an energy anomaly.
>
> In the many years i've been researching classical symmetry breaks, one
> thing has become clear - the only way to explain away a real symmetry break
> is to invoke another somewhere else up or downstream (it's a standard
> recourse for pseudoskeptics).  As much as i'd welcome free energy, momentum
> and FTL travel, and despite Shawyer's assurances everything's classically
> consistent, these enigmatic implications remain..   for me, at least.
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:17 AM,  wrote:
>
>> In reply to  Craig Haynie's message of Sun, 13 Mar 2016 21:08:43 -0400:
>> Hi,
>> [snip]
>>
>> Note the use of the word "acceleration".
>>
>> Acceleration produces a force. Force times distance = energy.
>>
>> >This doesn't make any sense:
>> >
>> >"For a given acceleration period, the higher the mean velocity, the
>> >longer the distance travelled, hence the higher the energy lost by the
>> >engine."
>> >
>> >Since we're not talking about relativistic speeds, then the idea that a
>> >device will consume more energy, over a given period of time, simply
>> >because it's moving, would violate Einstein's Special Relativity which
>> >says there's no preferred frame of reference. The moving object cannot
>> >be said to be moving at all.
>> >
>> >Craig
>> 

Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

[Alain Sepeda]

Shawyer's theory explicitly repect CoE, and it explains that acceleration
consume energy, through dopler effect and decalibration of the cavity...
http://emdrive.com/faq.html
"*6.*

*Q.* *Is the EmDrive a form of perpetual motion machine?*
*A. *The EmDrive obeys the law of conservation of energy and is therefore
not a perpetual motion machine. Energy must be expended to accelerate the
EmDrive (see Equation 16 of the theory paper). Once the EmDrive is switched
off, Newton’s laws ensure that motion is constant unless it is acted upon
by another force.

*7.*
*Q.* *Why does the thrust decrease as the spacecraft velocity along the
thrust vector increases?*
*A. *As the spacecraft accelerates along the thrust vector, energy is lost
by the engine and gained as additional kinetic energy by the spacecraft.
This energy can be defined as the thrust multiplied by the distance through
which the thrust acts. For a given acceleration period, the higher the mean
velocity, the longer the distance travelled, hence the higher the energy
lost by the engine.
This loss of stored energy from the resonant cavity leads to a reduction in
Q and hence a reduction of thrust."


I'm not very convinced by Shawyer except that his equations seems to
work... seems, with the scarce data available...


You can also consider MiHsC theory by McCulloch


this theoreticians is pushing the idea that inside the event horizon
energy+information+mass is conserved.

http://physicsfromtheedge.blogspot.co.uk/2015/03/one-wave-approximation-of-mihsc.html




2016-03-13 18:28 GMT+01:00 Russ George :

> “And it is this direct implication that Shayer et al have not yet
> answered to, so far as I'm aware.  The conversion of input energy to
> acceleration would remain constant, at any velocity.  If 1 m/s/kg costs a
> whopping kJ, it'll ALWAYS cost 1kJ, whether from 0 - 1 m/s or from 999 m/s
> to 1 km/s, and hence passing a threshold beyond which energy is being
> created as observed from an external frame.”
>
> I thought that was the essence of why Shawyer’s EM Drive has been
> described as a ‘warp drive’ not because of the simple notion that it
> ‘might’ reach ‘faster than light’ but that if the energy required for
> acceleration remains constant it ‘MUST’ be capable of reaching ftl speeds.
>
> The super conducting version of Shawyer’s drive that he says is the real
> goal/gold is surely very near to hand. That sort of tech is widely in use
> in a variety of fields and simple adaptations of on the shelf hardware
> could be immediately diverted to build such a drive. It seems likely this
> is already underway by Shawyer and his ilk as they are very ‘coy’ on this
> topic.
>
> Of course using EM Drives to spin an electrical generator shaft is a
> logical useful earth bound tech. There seem to be a whole flock of black
> swans starting to be heard honking in the distance and getting louder by
> the day.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Vibrator ! [mailto:mrvibrat...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:14 AM
> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)
>
>
>
> @Jones - i have no doubt the efficacy of the principle can be tested in
> the lab - i'm not talking about an ability to detect thrust.
>
> I use the qualifier "effective" N3 violation in reference to a system in
> which mechanical (classical) momentum is not conserved - quantum or
> relativistic effects notwithstanding.
>
> An EM drive would be such a system.
>
> And as regards conservation of energy, an effective N3 break, like a real
> one, creates free energy from the classical perspective.
>
> KE squares with veloicty, so a 1 m/s/kg acceleration from stationary only
> costs 1/2 J.   But the cost of that same 1 m/s/kg is then subject to
> compound interest as velocity rises - it costs 9.5 J to get from 9 m/s up
> to 10 m/s, and 95 J to get from 99 m/s up to 100 m/s.  In short,
> acceleration costs more per unit the faster we go.
>
> And if you consider WHY this cost escalates, it boils down to Newton's 3rd
> law, and the need for reaction mass.
>
> If however our reaction mass can be quantum or relativistic, ie.
> non-classical, then we circumvent this limitation of diminishing returns -
> the cost per unit of acceleration remains constant, regardless of velocity.
>
> Like the magnetic field, or a rotating body, these systems have their own
> independent resting frames.
>
> And it is this direct implication that Shayer et al have not yet answered
> to, so far as i'm aware.  The conversion of input energy to acceleration
> would remain constant, at any velocity.  If 1 m/s/kg costs a whopping kJ,
> it'll ALWAYS cost 1kJ, whether from 0 - 1 m/s or from 999 m/s to 1 km/s,
> and hence passing a threshold beyond which energy is being created as
> observed from an external frame.
>
> This point applies to whatever the exploit - chiralty effects included
> (obviously the force mediator for an EM drive is virtual photons which
> exchange signed (+/-) quantum momentum 

Re: [Vo]:Politicians beginning to count on "clean energy" for job creation

[Alain Sepeda]

note that Russia, and especially Putin have an agenda to reduce dependency
of Russian economy to oil. Ther was some success, ane recent embargo did
much to help, but this is still very insufficient.

Oil rent is a trap, anyone with some vision of history know that it is a
cursed resource, far more than the Dutch disease.
It promotes concentrated easy resources, increase corruption, increase
strategic dependency (operators and clients), reduce employability of
workforce

2016-03-09 18:23 GMT+01:00 Lennart Thornros :

> Jed,
> Why do you think it is OK that people in Russia and Saudi loses job. I
> could accept your idea 100 years ago as an egoistical stance. Today it does
> not even have that excuse. We live in an interconnected world.
> Now I think there will be transfer of work due to introduction of LENR.
> Reality is that the 'winners' will have to support the 'losers'. This
> transfer will create jobs just in the transfer. Then you will find that
> what was not so plausible before will now be very much an option. For
> example with very low energy cost we here in CA would rather build
> desalination plants in South CA then try to import water from far away.
> Thus creating development jobs, construction jobs, maintenance jobs etc.
> I have said it before it is not a zero sum game. On the contrary lower
> cost, more effective solutions opens up new ways to do things.
> I do think you are right in that many (particularly trade unions and the
> political establishment) will cry over what might be lost, because they
> cannot see outside there own little box. Everything outside is unknown and
> scary.
>
> Best Regards ,
> Lennart Thornros
>
>
> lenn...@thornros.com
> +1 916 436 1899
>
> Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
> enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 7:23 AM, Jed Rothwell 
> wrote:
>
>> Not to introduce politics but . . .
>>
>> A Clinton campaign spokesperson is quoted in the news today: "We think
>> that she came into Michigan with a very strong economic agenda and message
>> about how she would create jobs and put manufacturing sector around clean
>> energy . . ."
>>
>> I think people in both parties are starting to say this. They are
>> justified. Alternative energy is labor-intensive. It now employs more
>> people than coal mining. That is one of the reasons wind and solar remain
>> more expensive than coal-fired electricity. (They are arguably less
>> expensive when you take into account the cost of pollution and global
>> warming, but the immediate costs are higher.)
>>
>> From our point of view, the problem with this is that cold fusion will
>> not be labor-intensive. On the contrary, it will wipe out all jobs related
>> to energy. It will take only a few thousand people to implement. Most of
>> them will be researchers, who are seldom paid much money. Cold fusion will
>> wipe out an entire sector of the economy. Whether it will add new sectors
>> remains to be seen.
>>
>> This means that cold fusion will have yet another built-in enemy as soon
>> as it emerges from the laboratory. Yet another vested interest will be
>> opposed to it. Not only will it face opposition from fossil fuels, wind
>> solar and other alternative energy, but also from organized labor and
>> politicians in both parties who want to "preserve jobs."
>>
>> My guess is that in the long term cold fusion may create new industries,
>> but in the first twenty years it is used, it will mainly reduce expenses.
>> When you save money, someone else loses income. You may spend that money
>> elsewhere, but in the meanwhile someone, somewhere is hurt. In the case of
>> fossil fuels, many of the people who will lose income are in Saudi Arabia
>> and Russia. I do not feel sorry for them.
>>
>> - Jed
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Progress in humanoid robots

[Alain Sepeda]

basic income is interesting in the "liberal" (French meaning, ie economic
liberal, "laisser-faire") way.

usual charity inspired system put tax on good outcome, par tof which are
caused by good behaviors (most which only people themselves have control on
and can see) . they put tax on good behaviors!

people seldom refuse to get a work to keep help, but they often suffer from
lack of good consequence from their good(productive) behaviors.

basic income simply make that you don't lose more money by earning more
money.
It push people to work, and to get out of trouble as if nobody was helping
them.

it is hard to accept that people with unfair trouble should not be helped
more than people without unfair trouble, but if you accept that people with
trouble have a little capacity to avoid part of it, to prevent it from the
origin, ...
people will brush their teeth more, care of their eyes, will avoid sick
colleagues and aven sens them at home to avoid epidemy, they will save the
cost of glasses and repair them...
while they will be free to buy expensive teeth, and sexy glasses if it is
their desire, at the expense of their restaurant budget. not at the expense
of public money.

what I find shocking in the morality driven social system it is that it
prevent people to be different, to have a different morality tha hurts
nobody on the material side.

I know people who were living in a trailer (forbidden in france, to avoid
poverty symptom), eating potatoes and pasta, working like crazy, just to
pay skydiving.

Some people would like to tax more people having sailboat, because it is
perceived as luxury, but what if it is your passion and you accept to have
a poor life beside ?

basic income will just say :
- I (your neighbour) won't let you starve, dies of diseases or would
- working in any way is always good
- saving cost is always good
- I (your neighbour) won't put my nose in your decisions, to work, to save,
to waste, and to have vacations


one expected advantage, don't laugh, is that people will work more, consume
less insurances and costs, because they see a direct interest and they are
not taxed on their good behaviors.

i see that revolution to be accompanied by few changes :

- all expense that are done to contribute to any activity, should be tax
exempted like for a company. tax should only be paid on the pleasure you
get. (avoid double taxing...). It put nanny when you work in that domain
(if your wife is more productive than a nanny, but less than a taxed nanny,
it is stupid for her to be self-nanny just for money), or DIY on a
productive good (if you take longer to repair your truck than a mechanic,
and can produce more than him meanwhile, tax should not make it profitable).

- like in US, if you did really stupid economic decision, or get very
unlucky, you should be allowed to file a chapter 11, even if managed by
"senior executive" if judge feel you really are incompetent... you have the
right to "reset your life", and
investors should know it if they invest in you. bankruptcy law are
essential in a "liberal" society.


anyway like for hot fusion, there are too many mouse in the cheese that
profit from verifying expenses, planning, selling political programs for
and against,



2016-03-07 5:17 GMT+01:00 Lennart Thornros :

> Harry,
> I liked the discussion.
> There was much to take from this debate.
> Just as important is to change the tax  system and the power distribution.
> Obviously a progressive tax system but a smooth progress. Take away all
> deductions and tax all type of income equally.
> Eliminate all double taxation.
> The definition of work needs to be looked upon with reality in mind.
> When the garbage workers go on strike it is an emergency after a week or
> two.
> When the bankers went on strike in Ireland everything went on as usual and
> after six months the bankers began work again.
> There is work and then there is work.
> Finland an Switzerland are considering seriously to implement the idea.
> I suppose the US should try at least to look into the issue. We certainly
> have a more complicated social system than most European countries.
> The debate showed that there are not without problem to implement
> something like basic income.
> Unfortunately there is a lot of people that think a step wise change would
> be good.
> It reminds me of the proposal when Sweden went from left to right side
> driving in -67; "why don't we start with the trucks?"
> We have a tendency to overthink things. In Switzerland they talk about
> 2,500 CH franken (CHF) per adult and 800 CHF for children.
> I think that type of complication will open up for complications.
> Anyhow, the debate was good. I think we need something to make things more
> equal all over the world.
> I think the timing is ripe. Just like all changes it has resistance.
>
> Best Regards ,
> Lennart Thornros
>
>
> lenn...@thornros.com
> +1 916 436 1899
>
> Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, 

Re: [Vo]:Is Rossi sick?

[Alain Sepeda]

Maybe.
One idea to protect humans from unknown risk is probably to put biological
canaries not far, especially some having less efficient HSP defense.

making assumption on a blackswan is risky.
anyway there are many things we have learned by observation, even if not by
theory.
Until now the general ideas is that LENR really HATE radiations... that is
part of it's rejection cause.

2016-03-04 17:55 GMT+01:00 Russ George <russ.geo...@gmail.com>:

> If speaking of conventional known radiations this comment about dose and
> detection is true however in ‘cold fusion’ clearly the unknown is afoot.
> One of those unknowns is what is it that can be there but not, or poorly,
> be seen. For example what might be seen as a nominal presence near
> background that can suddenly be made ‘visible’ to detectors where millirem
> signals turn into kilorem! (micro-Sieverts to Sieverts if you prefer)
> Fortunately the human body is more akin to our normal detectors than our
> enhanced cold fusion mischegunon detectors so the harming dose equivalent
> of those massive cold fusion radiations remains for us in health physics
> terms as low doses. Still the better cold fusion cooks are sure to see the
> most exposure and the nature of this new and still very poorly observed to
> say nothing of described radiations is far from clear. More than a few cold
> fusion scientists have succumbed already. As is said in ancient texts ‘one
> does not catch the unknown in a net of the known.’
>
>
>
> *From:* alain.coetm...@gmail.com [mailto:alain.coetm...@gmail.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Alain Sepeda
> *Sent:* Friday, March 4, 2016 12:13 AM
> *To:* Vortex List
> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Is Rossi sick?
>
>
>
> the dose, and the speed of dose to make someone sick is huge and canbe
> detected.
>
> This is what people name "deterministic effect" in radioprotection.
>
> This is above 700mSv as fast dose
>
>
>
> there is also undeterministic effect, typically cancer, whose severity is
> independent of the dose, but which are trigger for adult above 100-200mSv
> as fast dose.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> modern biology taught that a cell can endure a given number of genetic
> destruction without any short or long term problem.
>
> above a given rate, there is undeterministic effect (risk of caner of any
> gravity)
>
> and then above a high rate deterministic effect from sickness to death.
>
>
>
> there is much unfounded fear, especially for fulbody scan , foetal
> irradiation, positron imaging...
>
> the threshold today are well known, and the linear dose no treshold
> scarmongering is definitively dead, escept in the media...
>
>
>
>
>
> this article in french is a good reference
>
> http://www.pseudo-sciences.org/spip.php?article1789
>
> translated:
>
>
> http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=fr=auto=en=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pseudo-sciences.org%2Fspip.php%3Farticle1789=1
>
>
>
> for those doubting on it, it refers to element of biology that I've seen
> few decade ago described for cancer inception , linked to HSP (heat shock
> protein, which as said in the article don't work only for radiation but for
> any aggression, mostly oxidative stress caused by respiration, the worst
> aggression for DNA)
>
>
>
> there is a video in french which is very clear and interesting fro some
> details not written
>
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L9rrD3t3FY
>
>
>
> for example there is reference to the number of damage that a cell can
> endure without problem, and above whoch there is non deterministic risks.
>
>
>
> reference also to many myth propagated by scaremongers.
>
> I don't expect to convince as the propaganda is too strong to be opposed
> by data.
>
>
>
> A phenomenon we observe in LENR domain.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2016-03-04 6:57 GMT+01:00 Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com>:
>
> Rossi is complaining about a 'failure to thrive' condition such as losing
> weight without reason. We might consider that a primary symptom of chronic
> radiation exposure is unexplained weight loss.
>
> Andrea Rossi
> March 3, 2016 at 9:07 PM
> Jed Orwell:
> I continue to lose weight and we do not understand why. I am going to make
> a lot of “scopies” you name one, I scope it, but I feel well and work my 12
> hours per day on my E-Cats; today another important loophole with the E-Cat
> X.
> Anyway: yes, I am ready to pass to my Team all the skills necessary to
> make without me, just in case. But I never in my life worked as well as I
> am doing during these days. Obviously, the faster we go, the better. Until
> the horse is good, better ride him.
> F9.
> Warm Regards,
> A.R.
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Is Rossi sick?

[Alain Sepeda]

To match with the problem of radiation accidents, the biggest cause of
trouble in Chernobyl and in Fukushima is the terrible impact of stress.
Andrea Rossi, like many of us, may just be tired, stressed, by fear, by
enthusiasm, by challenges and stakes, by internal conflicts, by technical
troubles...

Anyway having a canari inside the LENR mine, like a guinea pig activity
park, tropical aquarium, bacterial culture, orchids, CR39 stock, plus good
old Geiger , may be a good idea.



It is good for stress too to grow plants, watch fishes, care of animals.
An roasted guinea pig is a south america especially, in case of big LENR
bursts.


2016-03-04 15:48 GMT+01:00 a.ashfield <a.ashfi...@verizon.net>:

> Alain Sepeda.
> Agreed.
> Reminds of the media scare about people living near nuclear power plants
> getting cancer.  Ignoring that the workers IN the power plants didn't.
>
> However well intentioned, comment's like Axil's get picked up and used by
> opponents of change.  I much doubt Rossi would be "feeling well" if he had
> suffered a radiation overdose.
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Is Rossi sick?

[Alain Sepeda]

the dose, and the speed of dose to make someone sick is huge and canbe
detected.
This is what people name "deterministic effect" in radioprotection.
This is above 700mSv as fast dose

there is also undeterministic effect, typically cancer, whose severity is
independent of the dose, but which are trigger for adult above 100-200mSv
as fast dose.



modern biology taught that a cell can endure a given number of genetic
destruction without any short or long term problem.
above a given rate, there is undeterministic effect (risk of caner of any
gravity)
and then above a high rate deterministic effect from sickness to death.

there is much unfounded fear, especially for fulbody scan , foetal
irradiation, positron imaging...
the threshold today are well known, and the linear dose no treshold
scarmongering is definitively dead, escept in the media...


this article in french is a good reference
http://www.pseudo-sciences.org/spip.php?article1789
translated:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=fr=auto=en=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pseudo-sciences.org%2Fspip.php%3Farticle1789=1

for those doubting on it, it refers to element of biology that I've seen
few decade ago described for cancer inception , linked to HSP (heat shock
protein, which as said in the article don't work only for radiation but for
any aggression, mostly oxidative stress caused by respiration, the worst
aggression for DNA)

there is a video in french which is very clear and interesting fro some
details not written

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L9rrD3t3FY

for example there is reference to the number of damage that a cell can
endure without problem, and above whoch there is non deterministic risks.

reference also to many myth propagated by scaremongers.
I don't expect to convince as the propaganda is too strong to be opposed by
data.

A phenomenon we observe in LENR domain.



2016-03-04 6:57 GMT+01:00 Axil Axil :

> Rossi is complaining about a 'failure to thrive' condition such as losing
> weight without reason. We might consider that a primary symptom of chronic
> radiation exposure is unexplained weight loss.
>
> Andrea Rossi
> March 3, 2016 at 9:07 PM
> Jed Orwell:
> I continue to lose weight and we do not understand why. I am going to make
> a lot of “scopies” you name one, I scope it, but I feel well and work my 12
> hours per day on my E-Cats; today another important loophole with the E-Cat
> X.
> Anyway: yes, I am ready to pass to my Team all the skills necessary to
> make without me, just in case. But I never in my life worked as well as I
> am doing during these days. Obviously, the faster we go, the better. Until
> the horse is good, better ride him.
> F9.
> Warm Regards,
> A.R.
>
> LENR could be producing a form of stealth radiation; radiation that
> damages structure and tissue but does not produce a reading on a radiation
> meter.
>
> John Fisher has detected 1.5 MeV alpha particles radiating from a central
> point of causation. Yet a gamma is not detected that should be there when
> that alpha particle hits the CR-39.
>
> It is well known in many LENR experiments that helium is detected without
> the generation of gamma radiation. This implies that alpha particles are
> produced without the generation of the gammas that usually accompany the
> alphas.
>
> How could this be possible, that alpha radiation can exist without the
> detection of gamma radiation? It could be that a general state of multi
> particle entanglement between the alpha particles and their center of
> causation... let us call that cause an exotic neutral particle (ENP)...
> transfers all gamma radiation through a quantum mechanical pathway to the
> ENP.
>
> However, the damage that the alpha particle produces through kinetic
> impact still occurs. Also, there is evidence that the ENP and float in the
> air. If this is in fact true, this particle can be taken into the body
> where it can catalyze nuclear reactions in tissue... and here too the gamma
> radiation is hidden.
>
> This possibility entered my mind when Mark LeClair claimed that he and his
> research partner were sickened and entered the hospital after a experiment
> with a cavitation based LENR system. Could LeClair have taken into his body
> a large number of these ENPs.
>
> It is important to understand how ENPs work if they exist to protect the
> thousands of replicators that will be getting into the science of LENR.
>
> Like Marie Curie, Rossi might have sacrificed his health to the unknown
> dangers that one must face in the LENR science.
>

Re: [Vo]:Yet another Rossi replication reported from China

[Alain Sepeda]

Is it uncommon ?
I have seen such practice in many old PdD LENR papers, and in recent Ed
Storms reports. This is something to promote fo replicators I imagine ?

another (less common) practice is the servo-mode, popularized by michael
McKubre in his closed cell isothermal flow calorimetry.

I found recently a document from LANL about calorimetry in nuclear
technology
http://www.lanl.gov/orgs/n/n1/panda/10.%20Calorimetry.pdf
many ideas from professional... big calorimeter... passive or servo. air
flow, water flow. solid state...


I've also digged Ed Storms "cheap seebeck calorimeter" paper (seebeck
calorimeter done with many TC)...

problem here  with NiLiH replicators are :
- reaction seems very sensible to temperature so servo-mode reduce control
on one parameter (this is even a key finding of Ed Storms in PdD
electrolysis)
- even heat pulse calibration in a dogbone configuration may trigger some
effect...

maybe the dogbone could have two independent heating coil
- one near the chamber quickly heat the fuel
- one near the outside, or in the flow/seebeck calorimeter add a pulse of
heat that reach the fuel much damped and much later.

anyway there is much to learn in old papers, and in professional documents
(including in IR cam documentation ;-> )

2016-03-03 4:06 GMT+01:00 Jed Rothwell :

> Russ George  wrote:
>
>
>> The simple and perhaps ideal calibration in these sorts of experiments is
>> to have a second heat source of some few or few tens of watts that can be
>> turned on intermittently.
>>
>
> A calibration on-the-fly. Good idea. I think we should suggest this to
> Zhang.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Events at the end of Jiang's run #2, Fig. 3

[Alain Sepeda]

>From the exchanges it seems we miss some "metadata" associated with the
curve.

One thing that amazed me was pressure change, but if there is presurization
by bottle, then there is no mystery.

hot H2 and TC seems not to work together, even if Pr Songsheng reports
documents that state compatibility of reductive/H2 athmosphere with K-type
TC (maybe the document refers to reductive, not to H2 which is an uncommon
gas)

from the comments, I step back to pessimism .

recently the only solid calorimetry I've seen is Ed, and his seebeck
calorimeter.

even if people stay to NiH(Li) studies, there are many good ideas to take
from his setup, and from his old book "the science of LENR" (of the student
guide to cold fusion).

maybe there is a marker for selling ready to use flow, or seebeck,
calorimeters. pre-characterized, calibrated, with redundancy, with
integrated logging, with integrated continuous selfcalibration ...

something that can measure precisely even the chemistry reaction and phase
change heat.

No need of LENR competence, just calorimetry.


2016-03-02 2:20 GMT+01:00 Jed Rothwell :

> H LV  wrote:
>
> I think you interchanged T1 and T2.
>>
>
> I do not think so, but you can check my work. Copy the original image out
> of the Chinese .pdf paper and paste it into a graphics program. It comes
> out in one chunk, easily.
>
> I am pretty sure that at that point, T2 is slightly higher. It may not
> actually be higher; I do not know the error margin. Plus, T1 is the one
> which goes bonkers. Ed Storms and others think it went bonkers because it
> is in hot hydrogen gas.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:New paper from Jiang in Chinese

[Alain Sepeda]

(about 2nd november experiment, fig3)
When I look at T4, at pressure, compared to input power, it seems there is
something weird happening.

does anybody know what causes the increase of pressure just when power is
slightly stepped ? about 14:00-14:15...
I suspect it is just heat ? since all other chemical reaction happened, and
since loading was happening until then.

from startup of the heating 8:30 to 9:30 it seems there is a delay of heat
from power to T4 of one hour, but from the little step of power and
pressure at 14:00 it seems much less...

note that if you imagine it is not LENR this second event looks absurd...
T4 cannot raise so fast, so much, compared to the 1400W initial powerstep .
chemical or LENR, there is something big happening at 14:00+.

people ask for calibration, let us assume the first part of the curve
before 14:00 is calibration around 1400W... after there is a rodeo.

about T1/T2 we have to consider failure is possible before the official
time.

Is it right to say, like Pr Songsheng, that when failing TC underestimate
temperature?

If so this makes T2 curve logical from 14:00 to the end.
Maybe T2 since 14:00 event  is toasted and playing yoyo, at above 1350,
displaying underestimated or very undersestimated temperature depending on
it's state. what we see is more T2 health state (bad or very bad), and not
a temperature

what is strange is T1, but a proxy for T2 is maybe the pressure after
heating.

maybe did the heating only happen from 14:00 to 14:30 when poweroff.
if so, T1 just represent the cooling period.

in that case T2 is hard to explain, except to assume that it shows higher
temperature than real (is it possible?)


my naive analysis,
1- T4 and pressure prove something anomalous happened. question is chemical
or LENR. amount and temperature point seems to exclude chemistry.
2- there is two alternative possibilities :
   a- an LENr event lasting half and hour until power is stopped, or
pressure go down, have toasted T2, and then T1 with T4 show heat
dissipation of that event
   b- an LENR event lasting few hours after poweroff maintained T2 above
1350C, while T1 is slowly dying because of overheating

where it I miss a point?

anyway, with stronger TC this seems a good candidate for an opposable
evidence.


2016-03-01 7:31 GMT+01:00 H LV :

> From Jiang's paper (courtesy Bob Higgins translation):

Re: [Vo]:Intelligent robots threaten millions of jobs

[Alain Sepeda]

2016-02-19 18:00 GMT+01:00 H LV :

> However, basic
> ​income ​
> should be high enough so that paid work does not need to be incentivized
> by money. Paid work
>

Someone in france, Gaspard Koenig support an interesting view on liberalism.
the system should support autonomy, meaning that people should be secure
enough to dare to behave autonomously and not to depend on anybody.

the problem with basic income is that it should be paid anyway by someone
who is paid for his activity.

Basic income is good not because it shares, but because it allows people to
be free enough to dare to produce better, and thus to increase the total
value, or reduce the total required effort or resource .
This is the same reason why "social security" (health, retirement,
education saving/insurance) if good for economics (people feel safer thus
produce better, invest riskier and consume more)

real efficient behavior for the poor is not to share your wealth but allow
them to produce it.

economic growth and international commerce have done more for Chinese
extreme poverty, and even African poverty (just beginning, mostly by
Chinese immigrant influence - joke), than all charity programs.

best solution to save people from cataclysm is to make them richer

Re: [Vo]:Intelligent robots threaten millions of jobs

[Alain Sepeda]

to explain more simply the interest of UNCONDITIONAL basic income.

if you have an income that is not removed if you work and get paid,
whatever it is, then you have no incentive not to work, and much incentive
to work, even for cheap, but never if it is not productive.
In this way basic income, unlike charity, promote work, but not absurd
work, only productive work.
This answer the catholic fear that people get lasy.
People are mostly rational, for local decision.

take from another perspective, if you subsidize poor, you multiply poor,
and reduce rich.
if you subsidized unemployed, you multiply unemployed, and deter workers,
in a relative way (you motivate less).

if you subsidize obsolete industry, or industry done by less trained people
in poorer countries, you multiply obsolete industry, deter modern industry,
deter trained workers in rich countries, and promote low competence workers
in rich countries, while detering induistry in place where it is the
cheapest and people are not trained enough...

the good way to judge policy is not through morality, but through incentive
network.

this way of analysing situation is valuable too for cold fusion, as it
clear explains the groupthink that emerged rationally around LENR evidences.

there was big subsidize for hotfusion, that were bigger because it was more
expensive. matching subsidies with cost motivate people to propose higher
costs. this is why you should not subsidize relative to the cost (the need
of the poor, the need of big science), but fixed, unconditional, or at best
to the opportunities.

science is also subsidized if consensual, and if you integarte that
publishing an article have much value for a scientist, then peer review
process, and high impact journal decide of a network of subsidies.
Current peer review by consensu tha promote high impact journal promote
that money get to money, I mean citation index goes to citation index.

people always forget that conditional subsidizes is a punishing tax on not
deserving the subsidies.



2016-02-18 20:12 GMT+01:00 H LV :

>
> ​from​
>
>
> http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/welfare/2016/02/how-i-learnt-stop-worrying-and-love-basic-income
>
> ​
> How I learnt to stop worrying and love Basic Income
>
> John McDonnell's decision to consider moving to the benefit is the right
> one, says Jonathan Reynolds.
>
> ​The ​
> first time Basic Income was pitched to me I have to admit I thought it
> sounded completely unrealistic. An unconditional payment to each
> individual, to support their full lives, whether working, studying, caring
> or being cared for? I remember sitting in Stalybridge Labour Club with a
> beer after a meeting, when my friend Gordon introduced me to the concept.
> “How else,” asked Gordon, “will we ensure sufficient support for people as
> they have to retrain throughout their working lives - not just for several
> different jobs, but for several different careers?”.
>
> Gordon’s question is the right one, and it stuck with me. My outlook on
> politics is fundamentally shaped by my experience of growing up in the
> North East in the 1980s. The closure of entire industries, like coal and
> shipbuilding, had dramatic and fundamental consequences for the areas built
> around them. The same is true of the tragic situation in the steel industry
> today. I still believe the Thatcher Government’s abject response to
> deindustrialisation lies at the heart of many of the problems the UK faces
> today, such as low skills, worklessness, poor public health and so on. The
> UK spent a fraction of what a country like Sweden spent on education and
> retraining as traditional industries declined, and we have suffered the
> consequences.
>
> But what should the left’s response be to this sort of seismic economic
> change? The traditional response, calling for the nationalisation of
> failing industries, doesn’t solve the problem. Running an industry at a
> loss because it is subsidised by the taxpayer is not a long-term answer.
> Globalisation means it was inevitable that the UK would have to exit some
> traditional industries – I wouldn’t fancy bringing back the cotton mills to
> Stalybridge, for instance – and education and retraining to take part in
> new economic opportunities is the only solution.  But as technology and the
> growth of the MINT countries brings ever more economic disruption, as well
> as opportunity, we must have a mechanism to provide people with both
> security and a platform from which to be able to access these new
> opportunities.  Basic Income would do just that. This is the first of my
> three justifications for backing it – as a policy to cope with inevitable
> but fundamental economic change.
>
> The second justification concerns our existing welfare state.  I have
> always been taken aback by the bewildering complexity of our welfare
> system. The Child Poverty Action Group Benefits Handbook, which like many
> MPs I use to help constituents, is 

Re: [Vo]:Intelligent robots threaten millions of jobs

[Alain Sepeda]

2016-02-17 16:35 GMT+01:00 Jed Rothwell :

> In the past, education helped because automation and robots usually
> replaced unskilled labor. I think for the next few decades they will
> continue to replace unskilled labor more quickly than skilled or
> intellectual labor. For example, self driving cars will replace taxi
> drivers.


Very interesting notice.

with intelligent bots and AI replacing office workers what you don't need
is not more educated people, because bots can be educated too .

what we need is what I see glorified those days : entrepreneur spirit,
pioneer spirit, disruptive ideas

you cannot be smarter than a computer their way, but you can exploit them
to work for you.

future of "activity" maybe "invention of problems", assembling services,
assembling or identifying demands and needs, ...

note that if bots replace really all work, then why have money, since money
is to buy work ?
if machine can be build without money, why give a price to machine capital ?
If design can be done by machine, why would it be expensive ?

I don't beleive things will be free, but just cheaper like it happen for
food, computers, energy, ...

if really all we know today is automatised, even surgery, psychologist,
except maybe few planet-scale experts in AI then :

- what would the genious experts ask to the society tha bots will not
propose ... name that NEW SERVICE, "NS".
- then NS will be proposed by non robots who are not "experts"... they will
thus be paid by experts who will be paid for their work, that they will
obtaine from a tax on all goods. thus goods will have  price.
- people gaining money for NS, will use part of their money to pay for NS,
and for goods... but most will be for NS.
- ther will be more people offering NS to people fworking for NS
- people not working for NS will need money , not muc, to provide NS if not
toexperts but to first or second level of NS providers...

OK I stop what I describe is just an economy...

NS will be all human service that people value and that robots cannot
provide.

it is human interaction, if bots do all else.
it may also be manual made goods, considered as luxury.
it may be cultural goods, ethnic tradiction goods, and services (shox, art)
it may be talking, sex, care, advices, even if bots can give you all of
that for cheaper...
don't forget that people  were using most of their time and money just for
food... now many have gadgets, and many use tourism of leisure services.

[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:​Researcher illegally shares millions of science papers free online to spread knowledge

[Alain Sepeda]

is there available PR papers from skeptic origin?
I think about lewis, hansen, Morrison, Wilson key critical papers (the only
one?)

One reason people still don't accept LENR is because they believe that
hidden behind a paywall where they have no access, there is a miraculous
demonstration of LENR artifact.

Never joke people like me believing in the Flying Spaghetti Monster (may He
be blessed), some believe in LENR as an omnipotent artifact, and there is
much more evidence they I wrong than FSM (may He be blessed) is not real..



2016-02-15 7:04 GMT+01:00 Esa J. Ruoho :

> Proof of torrent Existing or GTFO (I jest, but its easy to claim that
> somewhere there is a torrent, harder to prove it exists)
>
> Sent from some iDevice. Written by Esa.
>
> Jones Beene  kirjoitti 15.2.2016 kello 0.36:
>
> *From:* H LV [mailto:hveeder...@gmail.com ]
>
> I don't think she does much archiving. She has collected keys and pass
> words (from anonymous donors) to other journal sites and her site applies
> them automatically so you can download the paper for free.
>
> Harry
>
> She sez she has about half downloaded: “I developed the Sci-Hub.org
>  website where anyone can download paywalled research
> papers by request. Also I uploaded at least half of more than 41 million
> paywalled papers to the LibGen database and worked actively to create
> mirrors of it. “I am not afraid to say this, because when you do the
> right thing, why should you hide it?”
>
> If you tried hard enough, you could probably find a torrent which has her
> whole database but it is probably half a terabyte, if it exists.
>
>