I noticed that flac files after RC filtering are smaller than before.
How do you explain that? Does it mean that there is a loss in
resolution? My guess: it is probably due to bass and treble rolloff in
the target curve.
--
evdplancke
evdplancke;693210 Wrote:
I noticed that flac files after RC filtering are smaller than before.
How do you explain that? Does it mean that there is a loss in
resolution? My guess: it is probably due to bass and treble rolloff in
the target curve.
Not sure what you mean... what files? - INGUZ
evdplancke;693210 Wrote:
I noticed that flac files after RC filtering are smaller than before.
How do you explain that? Does it mean that there is a loss in
resolution? My guess: it is probably due to bass and treble rolloff in
the target curve.
Quite apart from the fact that inguz doesn't
This is the size of the file generated by the demo version of
audiolense, once converted to flac. It is more compressed with RC than
without.
--
evdplancke
evdplancke's Profile:
Here we go
I thought I am the ultimate smart ass. Then I've seen that people in
this forum (including Chris) have been experimenting with Audiolense at
least since 2007. And I can confirm evdplancke's statement, that
achieving good results with RC is rather tricky. But I still think it's
Quad;692424 Wrote:
Here we go
I thought I am the ultimate smart ass. Then I've seen that people in
this forum (including Chris) have been experimenting with Audiolense at
least since 2007. And I can confirm evdplancke's statement, that
achieving good results with RC is rather tricky.
Phil Leigh;692437 Wrote:
Wow - I'm really confused now.
So you were using a target curve from someone else? - ouch.
You SHOULD be using the target correction curve that AL generates for
you, based on its desire to flatten your measurement curve. Sure you
can tweak that curve a bit (for
Phil Leigh;692437 Wrote:
Wow - I'm really confused now.
So you were using a target curve from someone else? - ouch.
You SHOULD be using the target correction curve that AL generates for
you, based on its desire to flatten your measurement curve. Sure you
can tweak that curve a bit (for
krzys;692440 Wrote:
Phil I'm a bit confused by your repaly. AL generates a target curve? I
don't remember the begining of AL use but I trace the target curve
myself in the target window based on the measurement. I try to match
the bass and treble to the capacity of my system to avoid
I have the older 3.1 version, as I remember not any typical curve was
supplied but maybe I erased them ? Anyway it is easy to built a curve
using just the measurement and the mouse.
--
krzys
krzys's Profile:
Quad are you using a mike correction ? different corrections for
horizontal and vertical positions ? According to the previously
referenced tread
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/119164-ecm8000-orientation-speaker-measurements.html
, the FR response varies a lot. In vertical position
evdplancke;691915 Wrote:
Do you mean you had a time misalignment of the same magnitude as 1.6 ms
when the mic was not correctly oriented?
No matter how hard I tried to put the microphone exactly between the
speakers, Audiolense always calculated a delay for one or the other
speaker and
evdplancke;691915 Wrote:
Do you mean you had a time misalignment of the same magnitude as 1.6 ms
when the mic was not correctly oriented?
No matter how hard I tried to put the microphone exactly between the
speakers, Audiolense always calculated a delay for one or the other
speaker and
krzys;691982 Wrote:
Quad are you using a mike correction ? different corrections for
horizontal and vertical positions ? According to the previously
referenced tread
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/119164-ecm8000-orientation-speaker-measurements.html
, the FR response varies a
Quad;692009 Wrote:
I just have one calibration file (see attachment of my previous post),
according to that file my ECM8000 was calibrated in a horizontal
position (0 degree incidence). It is pretty flat from 30Hz to 1kHz.
From 1kHz to 10kHz there is a continuous increase up to +2db and from
evdplancke;691686 Wrote:
I have a similar case as yours. My listening position is in a sofa close
to the wall and I loose focus when applying RC. Not sure though that a
better mic would improve that much the sound. Probably a directional
mic can help as suggested by Phil. I was also thinking
It is quite interesting that we all make different experiences. But we
do not all have the same measuring equipment and the same room. I think
everything that Phil, Chris and me are saying is plausible. Just to make
impressions complete, here are my latest and definitive conclusions with
my
Very interesting Quad, will try the vertical position and different
rotation with my mike (not a Behringer but similar).
Chris
--
krzys
krzys's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2256
View this
krzys;691756 Wrote:
I'm listening in the exact same position; my head is around 30 cm (a
foot) from the wall. I installed an acoustic panel (25 mm thick) just
behind. I'm using an Apex mike, omnidirectional (nearly all those mikes
are made from the same W61 Panasonic capsule), pointed
krzys;691756 Wrote:
Evdplancke, what speakers are you using? Try different mike
orientations. Check the impulse response, are both channels similar?
Ask Brent from Audiolense, send him your measurements. With Audiolense
it is rather easy to get good filters compared to the DRC itself. It
Quad;691772 Wrote:
It is quite interesting that we all make different experiences. But we
do not all have the same measuring equipment and the same room. I think
everything that Phil, Chris and me are saying is plausible. Just to make
impressions complete, here are my latest and definitive
evdplancke;691794 Wrote:
I am using quite old vintage AT1 speakers from PE Leon. These are two
ways bass reflex floorstand speakers and I am quite happy with them.
However, one of the tweaters has been damaged by a chair and is a
little bit disformed. Probably due to this, I noticed with
evdplancke;691794 Wrote:
Another strange result is that I get a delay of 1.6 ms between channels.
Given this corresponds to a distance of 0.5m at the speed of sound, I
suspect difference in mic distance from each speaker is not the main
cause of the delay. Can phase shift between channels
Ok, I'm convinced now that I have to get a better microphone. Look at
'this thread'
(http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/119164-ecm8000-orientation-speaker-measurements.html).
Results are not at all the same for 0, 45 and 90 degrees. They depend
very much on orientation.
What I don't
Quad;691820 Wrote:
Ok, I'm convinced now that I have to get a better microphone. Look at
'this thread'
(http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/119164-ecm8000-orientation-speaker-measurements.html).
Results are not at all the same for 0, 45 and 90 degrees. They depend
very much on
evdplancke;691794 Wrote:
I am using quite old vintage AT1 speakers from PE Leon. These are two
ways bass reflex floorstand speakers and I am quite happy with them.
However, one of the tweaters has been damaged by a chair and is a
little bit disformed. Probably due to this, I noticed with
In my previuous messages when I was saying phase I should have said
polarity, normal or inverted.
I found some interesting comments in the Audiolense help: (images not
included).
All corrections in Audiolense are made such that all speakers and
drivers have a positive polarity after correction.
Quad;691772 Wrote:
1. Put something on your back wall where direct reflection are coming
from (a cushion)
2. Put your ECM8000 in a vertical position, microphone head where your
ears would be
3. Rotate your ECM8000 so that the Behringer logo points either to the
left or to the right.
Quad;691802 Wrote:
That's exactly what I encountered when the orientation of the microphone
is not correct. I always had delays between 0.02 and 0.06, regardless
the distance to the speakers (measured with 'this'
I've tried DRC Designer to build up Inguz convolution filters for my
Touch. It helped to build up the RC filters on an easier way, but did
not help to get better results: none of default generated filters give
a correct sound (still horrible cavernous/distorted sound).
Then I tried the
evdplancke;691573 Wrote:
I've tried DRC Designer to build up Inguz convolution filters for my
Touch. It helped to build up the RC filters on an easier way, but did
not help to get better results: none of default generated filters give
a correct sound (still horrible cavernous/distorted
krzys;691581 Wrote:
As I know DRC is very intolerant to distance differences of the speakers
to the mike. Have you checked that?
Audiolense, my experience: what you describe is for me a typical phase
misalignment result. Can you check that all your channels in the
speakers are in phase?
After you had measured in AudioLense, what did the response curve look
like? How flat was it? - How many dB's were your biggest
peaks/troughs?
You should put the mic where the centre of your head would normally be
when listening. It is not critical within (say) 5-10cm.
--
Phil Leigh
You want
I have two rooms to measure. In one I'm pretty impressed in how it
sounds with RC by Audiolense, in the other room not that much yet. I
encounter similar problems as you, treble is gone. But stage and phase
seem to be correct. Me for myself I had very different results if the
microphone was not
I think I just figured out why it doesn't sound that good in my living
room:
My head is very close to the unprepared back wall (less than 10cm). The
microphone in its vertical position gets a huge amount of treble
reflection from that wall and Audiolense will correct that, as it is
supposed to.
the Behringer is not exactly the worlds best mic...
Regardless, in my opinion you should not use an omni mic for room
correction, you should use a cardioid or hypercardiod pointing at the
mid point of the axis of the treble drivers. This is how your ears work
more or less. Reflected sound is
Phil Leigh;691633 Wrote:
the Behringer is not exactly the worlds best mic...
Regardless, in my opinion you should not use an omni mic for room
correction, you should use a cardioid or hypercardiod pointing at the
mid point of the axis of the treble drivers. This is how your ears work
more
'Originally Posted by Phil Leigh'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?p=691633)br /
the Behringer is not exactly the worlds best mic...br /
br /
Regardless, in my opinion you should not use an omni mic for room
correction, you should use a cardioid or hypercardiod pointing
evdplancke;691686 Wrote:
I have a similar case as yours. My listening position is in a sofa close
to the wall and I loose focus when applying RC. Not sure though that a
better mic would improve that much the sound. Probably a directional
mic can help as suggested by Phil. I was also thinking
krzys;690970 Wrote:
Phil how do you plan to use the XO audiolense functions? If I understand
the thing, you would need a multichanel computer soundcard/dac (a
computer) AFTER the Touch in the same maner as I use DCX2496 for
crossover functions.
Chris - I want XO for its time domain
Thanks Phil, you are right on both issues. Yes I also thought about the
XO version for the extra features but I find the price high for an
uncertain gain. My DCX allows time correction for each channel so I
don't really need it from Audiolense filter. I also don't like too much
his (Brent from
krzys;691089 Wrote:
Thanks Phil, you are right on both issues. Yes I also thought about the
XO version for the extra features but I find the price high for an
uncertain gain. My DCX allows time correction for each channel so I
don't really need it from Audiolense filter. I also don't like
I successfully applied my first room correction file with
Audiolense/Inguz. All the room modes are gone. Bass sounds tight as
never before and strings sound silky. All this without changing the
overall character of the soundstage.
I bought a Behringer ECM8000 with a calibration file together
Quad;690917 Wrote:
I successfully applied my first room correction file with
Audiolense/Inguz. All the room modes are gone. Bass sounds tight as
never before and strings sound silky. All this without changing the
overall character of the soundstage.
I bought a Behringer ECM8000 with a
When recording sweeps for measurements with Audiolense, where do you
connect your PC to your system? Is it recommended to use the DAC as
external soundcard and a digital recorder (like Olympus LS or Tascam
Zoom) as audio input, both connected to the PC with USB? I have read
that not using a
evdplancke;690924 Wrote:
When recording sweeps for measurements with Audiolense, where do you
connect your PC to your system? Is it recommended to use the DAC as
external soundcard and a digital recorder (like Olympus LS or Tascam
Zoom) as audio input, both connected to the PC with USB? I
Jeff Flowerday;690925 Wrote:
If using the dac in the touch, I have to assume the best results would
be having the touch play the sweep tones somehow someway.
If you are using an external dac, I think plugging the computer via
toslink or spdif to the dac and playing the sweep tones with the
Phil Leigh;690922 Wrote:
Glad to have been of help.
No idea what these folks messing with the TT mods are hearing in their
systems but I hear similar stuff to you when using DRC. Would you agree
that it is a serious - possibly game changing improvement? I realise
this is a rather leading
Quad;690944 Wrote:
Mee too, I'm messing around with TT and PCM streaming. But I'm
completely aware that those small changes I hear might very well be
placebo and voodoo. If support for these kind of things would cease, I
would not think over my Squeezebox solution. On the other hand - after
Jeff Flowerday;690925 Wrote:
If using the dac in the touch, I have to assume the best results would
be having the touch play the sweep tones somehow someway.
If you are using an external dac, I think plugging the computer via
toslink or spdif to the dac and playing the sweep tones with the
evdplancke;690924 Wrote:
When recording sweeps for measurements with Audiolense, where do you
connect your PC to your system? Is it recommended to use the DAC as
external soundcard and a digital recorder (like Olympus LS or Tascam
Zoom) as audio input, both connected to the PC with USB? I
evdplancke;690924 Wrote:
When recording sweeps for measurements with Audiolense, where do you
connect your PC to your system? Is it recommended to use the DAC as
external soundcard and a digital recorder (like Olympus LS or Tascam
Zoom) as audio input, both connected to the PC with USB? I
Phil Leigh;690952 Wrote:
I think the differences made by the mic and ADC are probably in the
final 5-10% range so I wouldn't worry too much. Which version of
AudioLense are you using? - I need to pony-up for the latest version of
XO, but that's quite an investment. My friend Curt tells me it
Phil how do you plan to use the XO audiolense functions? If I understand
the thing, you would need a multichanel computer soundcard/dac (a
computer) AFTER the Touch in the same maner as I use DCX2496 for
crossover functions.
--
krzys
Thanks Chris for your explanations :)
--
evdplancke
evdplancke's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=43147
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93393
naamanf;690656 Wrote:
Yup it works! And sounds horrible!
I must have not done such a great job on the correction filter. I used
the Inguz method with DRC. Is audiolense worth the cheese?
Yes Audiolense is worth every penny. You also need a very good, flat
microphone and a good sound card
Jeff Flowerday;690670 Wrote:
I'm intrigued but also skeptical about something messing with the audio
before. It looks like audiolense is the proper way to do it, but it
isn't cheap.
There isn't much else I can do with my room, so the last option would
be DRC, but I need to hear some rave
Phil Leigh;690692 Wrote:
What microphone did you use? You need to use a GOOD flat mic, preferably
one that is calibrated.
Can you describe horrible?
Is the sound distorted? - can you check in the log.txt file to see if
it mentions clipping in the log messages.
Same experience so I can
Another dummy question: there are several places to adjust recording
level in my setup: recorder rec gain, mixer main level, mixer Mic input
gain, mixer Mic input level. Where is the best place to ajust recording
level in order to avoid clipping but still minimise noise.
--
evdplancke
evdplancke;690720 Wrote:
Same experience so I can answer for myself. Was using Behringer ECM8000
as recommended by Inguz site best price/quality, connected to Behringer
mixing table for Phantom power and level adjustements. Using Olympus
LS11 on line in as digital recorder in 44,1/24 and
naamanf;690725 Wrote:
Same setup but I was using a Profire 610. I also had the same results. I
do have clipping in my log file so I am sure that's one of the problems.
To reduce the number of clipping messages in log.txt, change the gain
setting in inguzdsp.exe.config:
?xml version=1.0
The behringer mic is OK. It's HF response is not very flat. Its
calibration files have also proven somewhat unreliable. However, it
should give reasonable results.
It is VERY IMPORTANT that all measurement takes place in a quiet room,
free from extraneous noise (e.g. traffic, clocks ticking etc)
Phil Leigh;690736 Wrote:
The behringer mic is OK. It's HF response is not very flat. Its
calibration files have also proven somewhat unreliable. However, it
should give reasonable results.
It is VERY IMPORTANT that all measurement takes place in a quiet room,
free from extraneous noise
naamanf;690742 Wrote:
Any suggestions on a mic then that doesn't break the bank. I just
happened to have everything already on hand and don't want to invest a
large amount if the results are not worth the squeeze.
As I said the Behringer is OK. Better mics cost quite a bit more (I use
an
I bought a dBX rta-m on the advice of a shop called absolute music. It
is designed specifically for use in a room correction system (ie DbX
driverack)
Annoyingly I can find no figures for its actual frequency response. I
was happy with the results fwiw
--
adamdea
evdplancke;690720 Wrote:
Result: no noticeable improvements/deterioration on orchestral music but
horrible cavernal sound on voices with a lot of metallical echo and back
layed voices.. No clipping in log.txt.
Hello, I'm using the digital correction since many years. I had the
same
if you don't want to buy audiolense without trying it out I believe that
there is a some limited try before you buy functionality. Why not give
it a go?
--
adamdea
adamdea's Profile:
TheOctavist;690498 Wrote:
jesus, how do I change the custom convert files? where are the
directions? what does this do?
have not done the AL yet...will shortly. moving my KH speakers in here
first..
btw, Adam, why dont you participate in Triodes blind listening app(in
the touch forum)
adamdea;690559 Wrote:
Will do.
As I understand it the custom convert file was to make everything get
converted to a single format 24/96 flac by sox prior to inguz.
You can do it using a text editor to insert your mac address into phils
file.
I'm sure phil can explain better.
This is my
Is it also necessary to apply your amended plugin.pm and index as per
the zip file you posted
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=633051postcount=317
--
adamdea
adamdea's Profile:
adamdea;690592 Wrote:
Is it also necessary to apply your amended plugin.pm and index as per
the zip file you posted
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=633051postcount=317
Yep! - do that first.
I actually now use a hacked (by me) version of plugin.pm that disables
ALL of the
Not to thread jack, but what is the trick to get Inguz to actually
perform to audio corrections. I'm running LMS 7.7.1 on W7. Everything
looks like it's working but it doesn't actually change the sound. All
the test tones work though.
--
naamanf
naamanf;690636 Wrote:
Not to thread jack, but what is the trick to get Inguz to actually
perform to audio corrections. I'm running LMS 7.7.1 on W7. Everything
looks like it's working but it doesn't actually change the sound. All
the test tones work though.
Changes only happen if you
Phil Leigh;690640 Wrote:
Changes only happen if you stop/start or change track... It doesnt work
like a normal tone control because of the buffering in the player...
Check the file called log.txt on your LMS server... It should have some
debug information in there that will confirm whether
naamanf;690656 Wrote:
Yup it works! And sounds horrible!
I must have not done such a great job on the correction filter. I used
the Inguz method with DRC. Is audiolense worth the cheese?
I'm intrigued but also skeptical about something messing with the audio
before. It looks like
naamanf;690656 Wrote:
Yup it works! And sounds horrible!
I must have not done such a great job on the correction filter. I used
the Inguz method with DRC. Is audiolense worth the cheese?
What microphone did you use? You need to use a GOOD flat mic,
preferably one that is calibrated.
Can
Not to hijack this thread but can anyone point me to where I can find
the files for Impulses and MatrixImpulse? I managed to get Inguz up and
running on my Linux system running sbs 7.6.2 but I do not have any of
the wav files to play with before a start making one myself.
Thanks.
--
TheOctavist;690396 Wrote:
yeah, Inguz is working, thank Goodness. I got rid of TT 3.0 and had to
reinstall everything, but yes.Ok great.
Have you tried applying the changes to custom convert etc which Phil
suggested ie the files he posted on the earlier inguz file.
And have you tried
jesus, how do I change the custom convert files? where are the
directions? what does this do?
have not done the AL yet...will shortly. moving my KH speakers in here
first..
btw, Adam, why dont you participate in Triodes blind listening app(in
the touch forum)
great fun.
--
TheOctavist
Phil Leigh;690219 Wrote:
If you now have Audiolense, have you been able to do your room
measurements and create the convolver (Inguz in this case) input file?
It's been over a year since I last had to play with this stuff so I'm a
bit rusty on the whole process. It will take me a while to
TheOctavist;690218 Wrote:
im not a command line type guy...
can you tell me how to do that?
Just type cmd in windows 7/start/search field and a command prompt
window will pop up.
Then you have to go to the directory where Impulseprep is located with
the command cd followed by the pathname.
Phil Leigh;690261 Wrote:
I upsample everything to 96 via SOX
Hi Phil,
Do you really mean you are converting whole your music collection to 96
Khz beforehand in order to be able to apply room correction??? Isn't it
a tricky process?
--
evdplancke
evdplancke;690267 Wrote:
Hi Phil,
Do you really mean you are converting whole your music collection to 96
Khz beforehand in order to be able to apply room correction??? Isn't it
a tricky process?
Everything is converted to 96 on-the-fly during playback... It all
happens seamlessly, I
I have the following error message in Inguz log.txt: Write fault 232:
The pipe is being closed.
Does anyone have the same message? Any idea if this has an impact?
Music is playing but with bad sound though no clipping.
--
evdplancke
TheOctavist;690198 Wrote:
I have audiolense now..
I also have downloaded DRC.
trid to use DRC, but I cant run impulse prep?? the .exe file, once
clicked just flashes a DOS screen for a second, and nothing..
tried using the impulse prep .msi, but it said my LMS wasnt up to date
and
evdplancke;690330 Wrote:
I have the following error message in Inguz log.txt: Write fault 232:
The pipe is being closed.
Does anyone have the same message? Any idea if this has an impact?
Music is playing but with bad sound though no clipping.I searched and found
that I did have this
adamdea;690371 Wrote:
As a matter of interest TR have you got inguz working on its own without
using room correction as such. It seems to me to be a good idea to take
it in stages.
If not do that first. play around with the equaliser and blance to
check its working.
Then if or once you
I have audiolense now..
I also have downloaded DRC.
trid to use DRC, but I cant run impulse prep?? the .exe file, once
clicked just flashes a DOS screen for a second, and nothing..
tried using the impulse prep .msi, but it said my LMS wasnt up to date
and couldnt install(im using the latest!)
TheOctavist;690198 Wrote:
I have audiolense now..
I also have downloaded DRC.
trid to use DRC, but I cant run impulse prep?? the .exe file, once
clicked just flashes a DOS screen for a second, and nothing..
tried using the impulse prep .msi, but it said my LMS wasnt up to date
and
totoro;690202 Wrote:
You might want to try running it from the command line, and seeing what
it prints to the screen.
im not a command line type guy...
can you tell me how to do that?
--
TheOctavist
VortexboxSBT(stock(TT failed dbt)Forssell MDAC-2Klein and Hummell
0300D
Sota
If you now have Audiolense, have you been able to do your room
measurements and create the convolver (Inguz in this case) input file?
It's been over a year since I last had to play with this stuff so I'm a
bit rusty on the whole process. It will take me a while to get back up
to speed.
Hopefully
Tried inguz tonight with drc. Managed to get a room correction filter
using normal.drc profile.
Had to change mplowerwindow to 32768 in normal.drc since default value
44100 was to high... don't know the impact.
Learned two things:
- first my measured room frequency response is all but flat
-
TheOctavist;688552 Wrote:
alright..im going to get this done tomorrow.. gonna need some help.
what do you have, adam? acourate or?
Sorry TR I was offline all weekend.
I use audiolens, and went straight to it on phil's advice. I did not
try using inguz itself to do the measurements.
I have
TheOctavist;688724 Wrote:
so it does all that room correction and whatnot?
so to be clear, everything I need to get my room sorted (at least in
the digital domain) is in Inguz?
In theory yes, but some ofus have found that it is better to ignore the
measurement part of Inguz and use
Phil Leigh;688735 Wrote:
In theory yes, but some ofus have found that it is better to ignore the
measurement part of Inguz and use something more advanced/ powerful for
that - I use Audilense to do the measurements and Inguz at playback time
to do the convolution.
Suppose one had a usb
alright..im going to get this done tomorrow.. gonna need some help.
what do you have, adam? acourate or?
--
TheOctavist
VortexboxSBT(stock(TT failed dbt)Forssell MDAC-2Klein and Hummell
0300D
Sota Sapphire/Lyra KleosBespoke Valve Phono StageMastersound Due
VentiLink Audio K100
is there a free convolver pkg? just asking...dont want to spend the dosh
unless its gonna help a lot.
if it does help,.ill pay for something nice
--
TheOctavist
VortexboxSBT(stock(TT failed dbt)Forssell MDAC-2Klein and Hummell
0300D
Sota Sapphire/Lyra KleosBespoke Valve Phono
TheOctavist;688684 Wrote:
is there a free convolver pkg? just asking...dont want to spend the dosh
unless its gonna help a lot.
if it does help,.ill pay for something nice
Inguz IS a free convolver...
And it is as good as it gets.
If you can get it to work, it will also do the
Phil Leigh;688702 Wrote:
Inguz IS a free convolver...
And it is as good as it gets.
If you can get it to work, it will also do the measurements... Ther are
alternatives.z
so it does all that room correction and whatnot?
so to be clear, everything I need to get my room sorted (at least in
It's going to be a long journey...
First you need to the room measurements. You will need Audiolense (or
siimilar), a good mic with a Flat response between 20hz and 15khz, a
good mic stand, and a suspension mount for the mic. Then you need a
USB interface for your PC like the one you already
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