On 9/19/06, Jim Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> But fine - emulating Jesus can make for a fine life... but still, why is
> there any need to deify him? Why treat Jesus differently than any other
> wise person?
I dunno Jim, because people like the idea of a benevolent creator? And Jesus
seem
Interesting. Right now my road isn't with any organized religion. Perhaps
later in my life, I'll venture on the same search you did. When/if I do,
discussions like this one can only help.
On 9/20/06, Wayne Putterill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I was thinking last night that I had only really gi
On 9/19/06, G Money <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 9/19/06, Wayne Putterill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > But if there really is a god then I stand by what I said - either it can
> > send me to 'the bad place' for being a heathen although I have done
> > nothing
> > to deserve it other than not
No, the athiest just finds a better, simpler language to achieve the
same results without the use of external tools.
On 9/19/06, Jim Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> To use your own example is faith just a Visual Studio? A shortcut method to
> reaching goals with less work? To extend the meta
> -Original Message-
> From: G Money [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 8:14 AM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: Re: My Convictions have a Price!
>
> On 9/18/06, Jim Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > You see... this i
No, using the Bush Administration penchant for redefinition,
The hind-most two limbs are no "legs". The front most two limb are
"arms", and the others have been declared "illegal", and are to be
ignored. Much like the Red Sox.
On 9/19/06, Larry Lyons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Two actually.
>Two actually.
>
>On 9/19/06, Larry Lyons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >Thank you, grasshopper.
>> >
>>
>> Is that a four or six legged grasshopper?
>>
>> d/k and running.
So you've been at it with a set of tweasers and a magnifying glass then...
~
Two actually.
On 9/19/06, Larry Lyons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Thank you, grasshopper.
> >
>
> Is that a four or six legged grasshopper?
>
> d/k and running.
~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of
>Thank you, grasshopper.
>
Is that a four or six legged grasshopper?
d/k and running.
~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting,
up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to
> > Larry wrote:
> > If God is omnipotent and all seeing, if he wrote the bible then why
> are there major contradictions
>
> Speaking of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John ... John suurrree does
> disagree with the Matthew, Mark, and Luke ... I wonder which one is right?
Actually there are significa
>On 9/18/06, Larry Lyons wrote:
>>
>> Actually grasshoppers use all 6.
>
>I'm not aware of that
>
>> Which animals chew their cud?
>
>http://www.tektonics.org/af/cudchewers.html
To make it easy, Leviticus 11:6 has a hare chewing its cud. Rabbits do no such
thing. "cud" is not "s---".
~~~
On 9/19/06, Wayne Putterill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> So the bible is now optional for Christians? Fair enough.
Optional is probably not the right word. Interpret within the context, then
weigh against the actual teachings of Jesus.
Old testament says "an eye for an eye". Ok, does that jive
On 9/19/06, G Money <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On 9/19/06, Wayne Putterill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > I'm not focusing on the evangelicals - either Christianity is about
> whats
> > in
> > the bible or it's nothing, and the bible couldn't be clearer on the
> issue,
> > if you're not a c
On 9/19/06, Wayne Putterill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> In line:
>
> On 9/19/06, G Money <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > It's the killer blow against any religion that says "follow us or go to
> > > hell", what happens to people who live good lives according to their
> > > culture
> > > a
In line:
On 9/19/06, G Money <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> It's the killer blow against any religion that says "follow us or go to
> > hell", what happens to people who live good lives according to their
> > culture
> > and upbringing who may not have even heard of that religion?
>
>
> Once aga
On 9/19/06, Wayne Putterill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> You misunderstand - I didn't leave because of what anyone else said, I
> left
> because I realised that if what the bible says is true then I wanted no
> part
> of it as I considered it morally suspect at least.
People get so hung up on t
On 9/18/06, Jim Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> You see... this is where I lose you guys.
>
> Why is God needed for that? Why is any supernatural force
> needed? Learning
> from Wisdom is something that us atheists can do just as well as the most
> devout believer.
God isn't needed for tha
You misunderstand - I didn't leave because of what anyone else said, I left
because I realised that if what the bible says is true then I wanted no part
of it as I considered it morally suspect at least.
It's the killer blow against any religion that says "follow us or go to
hell", what happens to
word AITHA brother!
On 9/18/06, Jim Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >Ignore all the other bullshit, and just read what Jesus says, and what he
> > >does. Call THAT your Christianity, follow those tenets, and you'll be in
> > >good shape.
>
> You see... this is where I lose you guys.
>
> Why i
> >Ignore all the other bullshit, and just read what Jesus says, and what he
> >does. Call THAT your Christianity, follow those tenets, and you'll be in
> >good shape.
You see... this is where I lose you guys.
Why is God needed for that? Why is any supernatural force needed? Learning
from Wisd
> God is.
hr...is she?
--
will
"If my life weren't funny, it would just be true;
and that would just be unacceptable."
- Carrie Fisher
~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting,
up-to-d
> Sam wrote:
> > Actually grasshoppers use all 6.
>
> I'm not aware of that
>
God is.
~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting,
up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to y
That's just gross. :)
Scott A. Stewart
REAC/PASS-IT
(202)-475-8875
Sam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
09/18/2006 04:10 PM
Please respond to cf-community
To: CF-Community
cc: (bcc: Scott A. Stewart/REAC/HHQ/HUD)
Subject: Re: My Convictions have a
Gimme 5 minutes and some tweezers, and I can fix that.
> > > If God is omnipotent and all seeing, if he wrote the bible then why are
> > > there major contradictions and errors (ie., how many legs do grasshoppers
> > > have - the bible says 4 when they have 6).
~
Actually, not all grasshoppers are the same and only a single species are
kosher (though the tradition is only still kept by Yemenite Jews). As for
cud
>> On 9/17/06, Larry Lyons wrote:
>>
>> > If God is omnipotent and all seeing, if he wrote the bible then why
>> are there major contradict
On 9/18/06, Larry Lyons wrote:
>
> Actually grasshoppers use all 6.
I'm not aware of that
> Which animals chew their cud?
http://www.tektonics.org/af/cudchewers.html
~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 page
I don't know, but I am guaranteed to meet them on blind dates.
On 9/18/06, Larry Lyons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On 9/17/06, Larry Lyons wrote:
> >
> > > If God is omnipotent and all seeing, if he wrote the bible then why
> > are there major contradictions and errors (ie., how many legs do
all the grasshopper's I've seen have always used all six legsmaybe
they were put there by the devil. Damn devil, always trying to shake
my faith.
On 9/18/06, Sam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 9/17/06, Larry Lyons wrote:
>
> > If God is omnipotent and all seeing, if he wrote the bible then
> On 9/17/06, Larry Lyons wrote:
>
> > If God is omnipotent and all seeing, if he wrote the bible then why
> are there major contradictions and errors (ie., how many legs do
> grasshoppers have - the bible says 4 when they have 6).
>
> "?that go upon all fours" The grasshopper walks with four l
On 9/17/06, Larry Lyons wrote:
> If God is omnipotent and all seeing, if he wrote the bible then why are there
> major contradictions and errors (ie., how many legs do grasshoppers have -
> the bible says 4 when they have 6).
"Â…that go upon all fours" The grasshopper walks with four legs and
ho
On 9/18/06, Gruss Gott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> So the technical question is: if Jesus was here to guide us, why
> didn't *he* leave specific written instructions? Why is it all
> hear-say?
You wanted a savior that reads more like an instruction manual huh?
Step 1: Check to ensure that al
> gMoneywrote:
> Jesus said that love for each other and for God is the way to heaven.
> Simple, easy, eloquent, pure.
>
That's the question - what is Christianity? Jesus didn't leave any
words himself, what we know is what others say he said. Now for the
most part the truth of these teachings a
Great spiel Matt, but the problem is that so many people DO focus on the
"man made" tenets of Christianity, instead of the simple teachings of Jesus.
It's what can make people so disillusioned, for good reason, with religion.
Jesus said that love for each other and for God is the way to heaven.
Si
>Ignore all the other bullshit, and just read what Jesus says, and what he
>does. Call THAT your Christianity, follow those tenets, and you'll be in
>good shape.
That's all I've been trying to get at this whole time. The focus on who's going
to Hell is just one aspect of Christianity. Shouldn't
Good shape, regardless of the divinity of Christ. Most of the ideas
are just smart.
On 9/18/06, G Money <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It's too bad that you feel you need to reject Christ because you are
> dismayed by his followers.
>
> Ignore all the other bullshit, and just read what Jesus says,
It's too bad that you feel you need to reject Christ because you are
dismayed by his followers.
Ignore all the other bullshit, and just read what Jesus says, and what he
does. Call THAT your Christianity, follow those tenets, and you'll be in
good shape.
On 9/18/06, Wayne Putterill <[EMAIL PROTEC
> Dino wrote:
> Is it a fact that God wrote the Bible? Nope, it's faith.
If we agree that, for example, Moses had the experiences he did, then
isn't God telling us that He didn't write the Bible? That he chose
Moses to speak too, not us, and that he told Moses to speak with his
people.
Here's my
That is pretty much the exact reason I had for leaving the christian faith,
I remember arguing with a born again friend of mine with almost those words
- he said that a child born in those circumstances would go to hell, I told
him that in that case I wanted no part of any god that would be that un
But by your own words you contradict yourself. We take it on FAITH that
there is a God. For some, that faith is personal (such as my personal
knowledge that there is a God based on events) and for others it is
tradition (passed down from the time that it happened). But this is still an
article
Thank you, grasshopper.
On 9/18/06, G Money <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It pains me to the core to have to agree with anything Maureen writesbut
> uh...yeah, this is right on.
~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Up
It pains me to the core to have to agree with anything Maureen writesbut
uh...yeah, this is right on.
On 9/16/06, Maureen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I think there is a world of difference between faith and blind belief.
> We are asked to have faith, not follow blindly as sheep. I think th
On 9/17/06, Chesty Puller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Somehow you and others think that we as Christians blindly follow. For my
> crowd, nothing could be further than the truth. We closley examine the
> beliefs that we have, and question them ourselves.
I don't know you, and you may closely exam
> Larry wrote:
> If God is omnipotent and all seeing, if he wrote the bible then why are there
> major contradictions
Speaking of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John ... John suurrree does
disagree with the Matthew, Mark, and Luke ... I wonder which one is
right?
~~
>Because you have no faith, you don't know that God in fact wrote the Bible.
>I do.
>
>- Matt
>
Now lets see, according to biblical scholars there were about 6 distinct
authors of what we call the Old Testament. Which one is Jehova?
Also the council of Nicea in the 5th century tossed out severa
> Matt wrote:
> He gave Divine direction to the men who physically wrote
> it down. Then, when determining the canon, He came in again.
>
> You ask questions that you already know the answer to, Gruss. I'm basing
> this on the matter of faith, which directs a set of posulates that I accept
> to be
rituality is a different matter. We can do that all day.
- Matt
- Original Message -
From: "Gruss Gott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Community"
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: My Convictions have a Price!
>> Matt wrote:
>> Becau
> Matt wrote:
> Because you have no faith, you don't know that God in fact wrote the Bible.
> I do.
>
So do you know that he didn't write the Apocrypha? Or the Gnostic
Gospels? Or the Book or Mormon? How about the Koran?
And how about all that stuff the canonizers threw out? Did He write that
Because you have no faith, you don't know that God in fact wrote the Bible.
I do.
- Matt
- Original Message -
From: "Gruss Gott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Community"
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: My Convictions have a Price!
&
> Matt wrote:
> that what they say in the Bible is real, then my belief in the matter is
> irrelevant,
But God and Jesus don't say a thing in the Bible; that is, they are
not the authors, Man is. (there's an interesting question for you BTW:
why didn't Jesus author anything that's in the Bible?)
27;t think that the Bible is right, why quote it?
- Matt
- Original Message -
From: "Maureen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Community"
Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2006 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: My Convictions have a Price!
>I think there is a world of difference
> Sam wrote:
> Christianity teaches that? Tough religion.
>
The religions of politics teach the same things; rather than be ideas
based they're exclusionary. Rather than lay problems on the table and
solicit solutions, it's an us and them type thing.
It's probably a left over from pre-historic M
Christianity teaches that? Tough religion.
On 9/16/06, Maureen wrote:
> "and everyone else will burn in hell"
~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting,
up-to-date ColdFusion information by y
> Maureen wrote:
> And while I am going through my own special hell recently with illness
> and relationship problems, I still find this earth to be closer to
> paradise than to purgatory.
>
Well said and great reminder.
~|
Intro
On 9/16/06, Gruss Gott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> BTW - living in a World that is subject to the petty acts of Man is
> it's own kind of hell.
Yes, but man is also capable of acts of grandeur, and somehow it balances out.
And while I am going through my own special hell recently with illness
a
> Maureen wrote:
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that
> whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life"
> does not have a coda that says "and everyone else will burn in hell"
>
Wow - please feel free to continue! That was excellent and I'm
I think there is a world of difference between faith and blind belief.
We are asked to have faith, not follow blindly as sheep. I think that
those who would demand proof of God are looking for physical evidence
of a spiritual phenomenon. Those who would limit salvation to a
chosen few have never
And where are your thoughts on the matter, or did you just assume his
doctrine was true?
- Original Message -
From: "Maureen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Community"
Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2006 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: My Convictions have a Price!
On 9/15/06, Jerry Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I would disagree that belief is voluntary. Practicing is voluntary,
> but belief, by its vary nature, is not a voluntary act.
>
> I do not think you can talk yourself with logic or desire into true
> belief, any more than you can talk yourself
On 9/15/06, Chesty Puller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> the one true Creator - which includes Jews, as they are the Chosen People,
> but not Muslims, Buddists, Taoists, Unitarians, Scientologists, or anything
> else, then you're going to Hell when you die. What most don't get is that
> it's not m
> Jim wrote:
> hypocritical support of religious institutions through the purchase of yummy
> num-nums.
>
Why that's a great idea! Yummy num-nums ... So how's this for marketing:
Jimmy's Yummy Num-Nums: so good you're going to hell.
or this
Jimmy's Yummy Num-Nums: tastes like Heaven!
or this
Boy you guys are getting all serious and talking about deep things.
Personally, I've solved my little crisis of no-faith and my seemingly
hypocritical support of religious institutions through the purchase of yummy
num-nums.
Yesterday I tripped a nun.
Now my world feels balanced again.
Jim Davi
ay, September 16, 2006 12:22 AM
Subject: Re: My Convictions have a Price!
>I would disagree that belief is voluntary. Practicing is voluntary,
> but belief, by its vary nature, is not a voluntary act.
>
> I do not think you can talk yourself with logic or desire into true
> belief,
rules of
> their game to do what they say is right.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jerry Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "CF-Community"
> Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 11:35 PM
> Subject: Re: My Convictions have a Price!
>
>
essage -
From: "Jerry Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Community"
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: My Convictions have a Price!
> See, that is a ridiculous statment. Of course it is you and your
> religion that is excluding someone
> Jerry wrote:
> But lack of belief is no more voluntary for
> most people than belief is to others. If it was logical and voluntary,
> it wouldn't be "belief".
>
Well said. I believe the ultimate sin is in creating an us and them
in the first place; it's Man's bastardization of God's will.
I do
See, that is a ridiculous statment. Of course it is you and your
religion that is excluding someone. Whether you are right and wrong
_is_ irrelevent, I agree. But lack of belief is no more voluntary for
most people than belief is to others. If it was logical and voluntary,
it wouldn't be "belief".
27;s not me or the religion who's excluding someone, it's that person and
their disbelief. Whether we're right or wrong is irrelevant to the debate.
- Matt
- Original Message -
From: "Gruss Gott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Community"
Sent: F
> Sam wrote:
> They can't all be right.
>
Sure they can. Of course the strict interpretation can't but my
belief is that that's man's imprint. I see no reason why American
Indian spirituality, Hinduism, and Christianity need be mutually
exclusive.
To me they're all just reflections of the same
They can't all be right.
On 9/15/06, Gruss Gott wrote:
> That wasn't my intention at all - I was just pointing out the fact
> that there are people in the world that believe that one faith is the
> right one and others are wrong.
>
~
Nevermind
http://www.uosh.org/hinfo.html
Best's Kosher and Hebrew National meats do not meet community
standards. Best's Kosher relies on leniencies regarding the lungs of
the animals it processes, leniencies that are below the standards of
the Orthodox community. Hebrew National seems to have rea
Now that is something not only recent but not even mentioned around the Jewish
community. I wonder when it happened.
Of course, they had to or else they could have been sued for fraud from all of
their advertising claims of being kosher or even the largest, most recognised
kosher brand. They we
http://www.hebrewnational.com/pages/kosher/index.jsp
On 9/15/06, Michael Dinowitz wrote:
> I don't know who that authority is as "Hebrew National Hot Dogs" are not
> Kosher. Any claim of being bound by or answering to a higher authority has to
> be for a reason other than keeping the "Hebrew Nat
I don't know who that authority is as "Hebrew National Hot Dogs" are not
Kosher. Any claim of being bound by or answering to a higher authority has to
be for a reason other than keeping the "Hebrew National Dietary Laws".
>Jim, that's a funny story.
>
>Check out "Hebrew National Hot Dogs". You
> Rick wrote:
> Check out "Hebrew National Hot Dogs".
Those are awesome! There's a place in Chicago just off of Michigan on
Rush called Downtown Dogs. You can special order your Chicago Dog
with the HN. Tasty.
~|
Introducing t
> Sam wrote:
> You talk to one person and present it to the list as proof all
> Catholics are weak in the thinking department.
That wasn't my intention at all - I was just pointing out the fact
that there are people in the world that believe that one faith is the
right one and others are wrong.
T
Jim, that's a funny story.
Check out "Hebrew National Hot Dogs". You can buy them in grocery
stores. Best hot dogs you'll ever find (next to Michigan's Koegel hot
dogs, which I can't get here in north carolina).
The slogan printed on the packages is "We answer to a higher authority"
Maybe yo
The argument that in order to believe in anything means you have to
accept all versions or it's invalid is bizarre.
You talk to one person and present it to the list as proof all
Catholics are weak in the thinking department. I get the impression
you don't like Catholics and probably have contempt
> Why do I have to pick one? Why can't they all be right?
There's not enough space 'cause they haven't opened up general
admission and lawn seating yet in the great beyond.
:-P
--
will
"If my life weren't funny, it would just be true;
and that would just be unacceptable."
- Carrie Fisher
> Dino wrote:
> Yelling out loud his beliefs and how others should follow them.
I was debating a Catholic who was telling me the Bible is the word of
God, etc and I asking why, for example, Smith and Mormons couldn't
have been just as inspired by God as say Moses.
The response was that it must ha
The BBC is different than the terrorists? They seems so much a media wing of
Hizballah and Hamas that I had problems seeing a difference.
>But where does the BBC rate in comparison?
>
>On 9/15/06, Michael Dinowitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
~~~
We just got back from the eye doctor and had to deal with one of those
'actively talking' types on the bus. Yelling out loud his beliefs and how
others should follow them. It wasn't till he said "he's sleeping and will
return" that I just lost it and started joking with Judith about King Author
But where does the BBC rate in comparison?
On 9/15/06, Michael Dinowitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> It's missionary work so chances are at least part of it is going to try
> and convert me ("to the Jews first"). Have I mentioned that I'm so biased
> against missionaries that I even rate them lo
> Dino wrote:
> It's missionary work so chances are at least part of it is going to try and
> convert me
As I understand it (I debate with Catholics all of the time), there
are 2 types of Catholics: those that believe in actively talkin' 'bout
Jesus, and those that believe in "works" - by which t
It's missionary work so chances are at least part of it is going to try and
convert me ("to the Jews first"). Have I mentioned that I'm so biased against
missionaries that I even rate them lower than the UN and terrorists. Even cute
little ones selling the very bread of life: chocolate.
And I'm
I'm a staunch atheist. Although I'm not rude or nasty about it I try not to
support churches or religion (I firmly believe that we've got to start
taxing these boxes o'God).
Unless, apparently, they're selling candy.
I just bought a box of carmel milk chocolate bars. The money goes to
support C
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