Wasn't it today that Crazystone had a match against a professional
player? During the FIT2008 conference at Keio University?
Does anyone know the result and if the game is available somewhere?
Jonas
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computer-go@computer-go.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Wasn't it today that Crazystone had a match against a professional
player? During the FIT2008 conference at Keio University?
Does anyone know the result and if the game is available somewhere?
Jonas
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Congratulations!
I'm dying for details! What was the time limit? Did the game end on time or by
resignation at move 179?
The pro was Aoba Kaori, yes?
Terry McIntyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"Go is very hard. The more I learn about it, the less I know." -Jie Li, 9 dan
- Original Message -
terry mcintyre wrote:
Congratulations!
Thanks.
I'm dying for details! What was the time limit?
The organizers asked that the program should play at a constant time (30
second) per move. The sgf file contains time stamps (you can see the
time with gogui, for instance). I don't know what
Congratulations, Remi!
I just returned from FIT2008.
This was first official professional vs. computer game in Japan.
I added some comments in sgf.
These game comments are stated by O Meien professional 9dan.
Aoba 4dan's comment after game.
"My guess was soft was strong, but something is differe
It's difficult for me to understand this due to different ranking
systems and pro ratings vs amateur ratings. I see here listed as a 4
dan player on this page:
http://www.nihonkiin.or.jp/player/htm/ki000343.htm
Is that 4 dan pro? My understanding is something like this:
kyu player are
I meant to add that we cannot calculate an upper bound on it's strength
since there was only 1 game and it was a win.
What I'm trying to determine is if we can say with a high degree of
confidence yet that computers have achieved the 1 dan level? This has
been kind of a holy grail of computer go
I'm excited to see a computer reach 1d as well. For me I'm waiting to see a
bot hold a 1d rating consistently on kgs. Right now CrazyStone has been
rated 1d briefly, but hasn't been able to maintain it. It's currently 1k.
I put a small table of the progress of a few bot's ratings on kgs at
http
Don Dailey wrote:
I'm thinking that if we estimate Aoba at 10d amateur and CrazyStone wins
with 8 stone handicap, it is roughly equivalent to beating a 2d player
without handicap and that we can subtract 2 stones to say that with
pretty high confidence CrazyStone is playing at least 1 kyu (but t
Andy wrote:
I'm excited to see a computer reach 1d as well. For me I'm waiting to
see a bot hold a 1d rating consistently on kgs. Right now CrazyStone
has been rated 1d briefly, but hasn't been able to maintain it. It's
currently 1k.
I put a small table of the progress of a few bot's ratin
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Don Dailey
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
I meant to add that we cannot calculate an upper bound on it's strength
since there was only 1 game and it was a win.
What I'm trying to determine is if we can say with a high degree of
confidence yet that computers have achie
On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 11:09 AM, Rémi Coulom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
> Andy wrote:
>
>> I'm excited to see a computer reach 1d as well. For me I'm waiting to see
>> a bot hold a 1d rating consistently on kgs. Right now CrazyStone has been
>> rated 1d briefly, but hasn't been able to maintain i
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Rémi Coulom
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
Don Dailey wrote:
I'm thinking that if we estimate Aoba at 10d amateur and CrazyStone wins
with 8 stone handicap, it is roughly equivalent to beating a 2d player
without handicap and that we can subtract 2 stones to say that
Nick Wedd wrote:
When mandelbrot resigns, saying "I was pwned", it appears to me that
he is ahead. If he plays at q11 instead of resigning, I think he can
kill Crazy Stone's s12 group - but it's difficult, and I'm not sure.
Bots are strong at psychological wins :-)
Rémi
__
I feel that we can now say that some programs on some hardware have
reached 1D. Not 1P, but 1D.
We are setting up another Mogo v.s. Kim Myung-wan game to be held
at the Cotsen Open in Los Angeles.
Cheers,
David
On 4, Sep 2008, at 8:48 AM, Don Dailey wrote:
What I'm trying to determine is if
1d (amateur) is a kind of holy grail for amateurs, because
it separates fairly serious players from people just messing
around, so seeing a program at that level on a 19x19 board at
reasonable (non-blitz) time controls is quite impressive.
1p is generally stronger than all but a small handful of
a
I think for bot vs human, the time control should include byoyomi/overtime
of some kind instead of sudden death. I'm afraid in one of these exhibition
matches the human will be winning but lose on time. It would be especially
bad if the bot was playing meaningless invasions or territory filling m
in fact, if you made a betting game out of it, and formed a pool
that would go to anyone willing to take the challenge, i think
that you'd find that the ratio of dollars "against" to dollars "for"
would be a fairly accurate depiction of the strength increase over
time. the ratio would likely lag b
Andy wrote:
> I think for bot vs human, the time control should include
> byoyomi/overtime of some kind instead of sudden death. I'm afraid in
> one of these exhibition matches the human will be winning but lose on
> time. It would be especially bad if the bot was playing meaningless
> invasions
On Thu, 2008-09-04 at 17:09 +0100, Nick Wedd wrote:
> As for "1 dan being a kind of holy grail":
> The Ing prize, worth over US$1,000,000, was for beating inseis, that
> is
> trainee professionals, who would have a strength of around amateur 7
> dan
> or maybe slightly below. So "beating a [pro]
Andy wrote:
> Just to prevent losing a won game on time.
By the way, most bots on KGS resign lost games. So most people who lose
on time are usually in a lost position themselves.
There are exceptions with difficult L&D situations, but really, I expect
almost nothing to happen to the bots ratin
Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
Andy wrote:
Same thing for bots on KGS.
As far as I understand, GTP only supports canadian byo-yomi which is not
so popular. Leela should support it but I have never tried.
The problem is not GTP, but the KGS client. The time_left of kgsgtp does
not give
Rémi Coulom wrote:
>> I would like to see MogoTiTan play many rated games on KGS and see how
>> it does there. Anyone have a few million dollars lying around to
>> sponsor this? :)
>
> Leela is becoming strong. It has reached 1k now.
The gold medal in Beijing will not go to France without a fi
On Thu, 2008-09-04 at 11:40 -0500, Andy wrote:
> I think for bot vs human, the time control should include
> byoyomi/overtime of some kind instead of sudden death. I'm afraid in
> one of these exhibition matches the human will be winning but lose on
> time. It would be especially bad if the bot w
This page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_ranks_and_ratings gives a table of
win probabilities versus rank differences.
I haven't yet found such a table for handicap games.
Terry McIntyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"Go is very hard. The more I learn about it, the less I know." -Jie Li, 9 dan
Don Dailey: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>It's difficult for me to understand this due to different ranking
>systems and pro ratings vs amateur ratings. I see here listed as a 4
>dan player on this page:
>
>http://www.nihonkiin.or.jp/player/htm/ki000343.htm
>
>
>Is that 4 dan pro? My understanding
http://senseis.xmp.net/?KGSRatingMath -- this table does include handicap
stones in the calculations.
Terry McIntyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"Go is very hard. The more I learn about it, the less I know." -Jie Li, 9 dan
- Original Message
> From: terry mcintyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To:
In such a case, I think it's better for the human not to have a time
control at all. This is more satisfying than having a human lose on
time, but giving the win to him anyway under the assumption that he
didn't really need all that time even though he used it.
- Don
On Thu, 2008-09-04 at 1
On Thu, 2008-09-04 at 11:40 -0500, Andy wrote:
> Even on CGOS there is a 1s Bronstein delay to prevent silly time loses
> due to lag. We need the same thing for humans except that for humans
> it needs to be a bit more than 1s.
The gift is 0.75 seconds as it turns out.
And I really hate the B
Don Dailey wrote:
> In such a case, I think it's better for the human not to have a time
> control at all. This is more satisfying than having a human lose on
> time, but giving the win to him anyway under the assumption that he
> didn't really need all that time even though he used it.
I think
Here is something interesting from this page:
Note how different the expectations of each system are regarding even
games between players of unequal strength. If you can win 90% of even
games against a 2 kyu player, the AGA believes you are 1.33 ranks
higher, the EGF believes you are 2.42 ranks hi
only if the human won all games and the machine didn't
use opponent's time would that be true. any other combination
would definitely show something.
s.
On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 2:40 PM, Gian-Carlo Pascutto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Don Dailey wrote:
>
>> In such a case, I think it's better for
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 4, 2008, at 1:49 PM, Gian-Carlo Pascutto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
As far as I understand, GTP only supports canadian byo-yomi which is
not
so popular. Leela should support it but I have never tried.
kgs-time_settings is much easier to interpret. KGS will send
I'm not surprised that the data for games with 90% winning chances is lacking.
The McMahon pairing system is widely used in western go tournaments to prevent
mismatched games,
because most players don't like mismatched games (either as the stronger or the
weaker player).
Rating systems are rel
At the recent US Go Congress in Portland I had a few conversations
with AGA Ratings Statistician Paul Matthews. While the conversations
were centered upon the difficulties of rating Go playing computer
programs, it came out at one point that there had been a very long and
heated argument in
2008/9/4 Rémi Coulom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> only 5k, so I cannot really tell. But when I see the horrors it plays in
> some games, I suppose it must play much stronger than 1k in some other games
> in order to get a rating of 1k.
>
> Look for instance at these two games:
> a win: http://files.gokgs
36 matches
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