At 01:53 PM 4/24/01 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
All though school (elementary, junior and senior high as well as in some
undergraduate college courses) we tend to discourage competition.
say WHAT??? i would say it is JUST THE OPPOSITE ... do the best you can to
get ahead of the next
of course, if one views group work to be important and, wants a good model
for such behavior, it is not academe for sure! while there is lots of group
activity that goes on, committee meetings off the chart, ... by and large
... when it comes to making decisions about faculty, staff,
At 05:35 PM 4/24/01 -0500, Simon, Steve, PhD wrote:
steve has pointed out, undoubtedly, useful references for us to examine ...
my main point is this: while there are many many activities that are and
can be done in groups ... and we need to train to participate in such ...
there are many
the fundamental issue here is ... is it reasonably to expect ... that when
you are making some inference about a population mean ... that you will
KNOW the variance in the population?
i suspect that the answer is no ... in all but the most convoluted cases
... or, to say it another way ...
alan and others ...
perhaps what my overall concern is ... and others have expressed this from
time to time in varying ways ... is that
1. we tend to teach stat in a vacuum ...
2. and this is not good
the problem this creates is a disconnect from the question development
phase, the measure
***
All views expressed are those of the author and do not necessarily
reflect those of the University of South Dakota, or the South
Dakota Board of Regents.
_
dennis roberts, educational psychology, penn state university
208 cedar, AC
At 10:39 AM 4/19/01 -0500, Paul Swank wrote:
However, rather than do that why not right on to F? Why do t at all when
you can do anything with F that t can do plus a whole lot more?
don't necessarily disagree with this but, i don't ever see in the
literature in two group situations comparing
At 04:42 PM 4/19/01 +, Radford Neal wrote:
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
dennis roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't find this persuasive.
nor the reverse ... since we have NO data on any of this ... only our own
notions of how it MIGHT play itself out inside the heads of students
I
At 11:47 AM 4/19/01 -0500, Christopher J. Mecklin wrote:
As a reply to Dennis' comments:
If we deleted the z-test and went right to t-test, I believe that
students' understanding of p-value would be even worse...
i don't follow the logic here ... are you saying that instead of their
one can possibly download mtb for $26 for 6 months ... at
http://www.-e-academy.com/minitab
i am not sure everyone qualifies but, it is worth a try AND is the full
release 13
if you played your cards right ... you can download for FREE for 30 days
and then EXTEND the "lease" after that ...
/
=
_
dennis roberts, educational psychology, penn state university
208 cedar, AC 8148632401, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://roberts.ed.psu.edu/users/droberts/drober~1.htm
At 05:29 PM 4/5/01 +, Andrew L. wrote:
I am trying to learn what a t-test will actually tell me, in simple terms.
Dennis Roberts and Paige Miller, have helped alot, but i still dont quite
understand the significance.
neither does most of the world (including myself on the odd numbered days
/
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dennis roberts, educational psychology, penn state university
208 cedar, AC 8148632401, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://roberts.ed.psu.edu/users/droberts/drober~1.htm
and remarks about
the problem of INAPPROPRIATE MESSAGES are available at
http://jse.stat.ncsu.edu/
=
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dennis roberts, educational psychology, penn state university
208
just passing this along that i saw
http://www.minitab.com/company/employ/INDEX.HTM
note one job in web development
==
dennis roberts, penn state university
educational psychology, 8148632401
http://roberts.ed.psu.edu/users/droberts
on either or both measures
At 08:32 AM 3/30/01 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
dennis roberts writes:
i think it is too early to be worrying if FA should be used ...
i am not quite sure what you are trying to do here ... you have measure A
that you do pre and post ... and measure B that you do
i think it is too early to be worrying if FA should be used ...
i am not quite sure what you are trying to do here ... you have measure A
that you do pre and post ... and measure B that you do only post ...
why this difference?
by convergent validity ... we are usually interested in finding
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dennis roberts
-2014 *
* http://www.people.vcu.edu/~nhenry *
*
--9F3BD71D2EDA80683B2FF9EA
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
!doctype html public "-//w3c//
here is my entry for the most common mistake made in statistical inference ...
using and interpreting inference procedures under the assumption of SRS
simple random samples ... when they just can't be
this permeates across almost every technique ... and invades almost every
study ever
many moons ago ... there was a post that referred to a case at MIT ...
where women biology faculty charged sex discrimination in that they thought
their salaries were much lower than they should be ... due to the fact that
they were women
then, there was post after post ... arguing this
we have to first separate out 2 things:
1. some test statistics are naturally (the way they work anyway) ONE sided
with respect to retain/reject decisions
example: chi square test for independence ... we reject ONLY when chi
square is LARGER than some CV ... to put a CV at the lower end of
, 31.24)-1.93 0.068
the p value that is listed is found by taking the area TO THE LEFT of -1.93
and to the RIGHT of +1.93 in a t distribution with 19 df ... and adding
them together
At 08:50 PM 3/13/01 +0100, RD wrote:
On 13 Mar 2001 07:12:33 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (dennis roberts) wrote
http://jse.stat.ncsu.edu/
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m in place
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o draw
these back then ... my hat's off to them
NOW, IF ANYONE THINKS I SHOULD NOT POST THESE ... LET ME KNOW AND I WILL
YANK THEM OFF THE SERVER RIGHT AWAY ...
i just thought this was interesting in light of the post i sent re: normal
curve template
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dennis roberts, penn state university
educational psychology, 8148632401
http://robe
the "act" of "deciding" (using whatever rule/CV you like) to retain the
null or reject the null ... is just that and nothing more
however, you do NOT "act" or "decide" to make a type II error or a type I
error ...
you don't "act" or "decide" to make an incorrect or correct choice ... the
ould make the
case in many instances that aquittal is more important than conviction ...
that is ... power in many cases is a highly overrated CORRECT decision
==========
dennis roberts, penn state university
educational psychology, 8148632401
htt
ecial name for THAT cell like we have given
to differentiate the two kinds of errors one can make ...
any support out there to try to right this somewhat ambiguous ship?
======
dennis roberts, penn state university
educational psychology,
the original post meant that ... there were multiple tasters ... i had just
put 10 as an example
thus, in the binomial context ... i was assuming (rightfully or wrongfully)
that n=10 ... that is, if we SCORE across the 10 ... we could have scores
of 0 to 10 ... in terms of how many got the
(close to) a t
distribution with n1-1 + n2-1 degrees of freedom?
that is ... i want to set up the "red flag" condition for them ...
what are guidelines (if any) any of you have used in this situation?
_____
dennis roberts, e
_
dennis roberts, educational psychology, penn state university
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or your students ... might find this helpful
_
dennis roberts, educational psychology, penn state university
208 cedar, AC 8148632401, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://roberts.ed.psu.edu/users/droberts/drober~1.htm
that the
discussion contained within these articles will be helpful.
_
dennis roberts, educational psychology, penn state university
208 cedar, AC 8148632401, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://roberts.ed.psu.edu/users/droberts/drober~1.htm
would this be like the F being less than 1 ... in a regular anova??? mean
difference not even varying like we would expect them to by chance if null
were true?
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as for a summary ... i think that it would include the following:
1. for hypothesis testing to occur, there needs to be some null value
2. for the null, there is a model we assume about it and this is
HYPOTHETICAL ... sample data say something about whether this model makes
sense or not or is
here are a bit of data from minitab ... that you might want to consider
MTB rand 1000 c1-c25; i generated 1000 samples that will be n=25 ...
SUBC chis 4. from a chisquare distribution with 4 degrees of freedom ...
MTB rmean c1-c25, c26 i put the MEAN for each row (sample mean) in c26
MTB
ull of 100 is NOT true ... than
for TEST B or TEST A?
no ifs, ands, or buts or it depends on this or that ... just straight
talking ... can we say this?
At 03:25 PM 1/30/01 +, Jerry Dallal wrote:
dennis roberts wrote:
on page 2 of 10 ... they list summary points and, the one i quoted befo
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... please clarify
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dennis roberts, educational psychology, penn state university
208 cedar, AC 8148632401, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://roberts.ed.psu.edu/users/droberts/drober~1.htm
ld be up to 1/4 foot longer than the other.
B. One jump could be up to 1/2 foot longer than the other.
C. One jump could be up to 1 foot longer than the other.
D. One jump could be up to 2 feet longer than the other.
END QUESTION TEXT
==========
.
Alan
_____
dennis roberts, educational psychology, penn state university
208 cedar, AC 8148632401, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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hat fails to keep straight
... appropriateness of the item GIVEN some objective
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educational psychology, 8148632401
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d put part on my webpage ... just to
give some idea of what could be (though lots of editing will be needed of
course)
thanks for your assistance
_____
dennis roberts, educational psychology, penn state university
208 cedar, AC 8148632401, mai
tatistical community accept this as being correct?
2. if the answer to #1 is yes ...
then what does this tell us (only this p value) about what the real
parameter value is? (are)
_____
dennis roberts, educational psychology, penn state university
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dennis roberts, educational psychology, penn state university
208 cedar, AC 8148632401, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://roberts.ed.psu.edu/users/droberts/drober~1.htm
let's see ... say you have two overlapping distributions ... on the left,
the null distribution ... and on the right, the assumed to be true sampling
distribution ...
now, in setting up the power problem ... you have to set alpha ... say that
is a two tailed .05 test ... and really the upper
i think, if i might be allowed to speak for jon, he would say that it
is a good SPREADSHEET package ... that was what it was designed for ...
add ons to make it also a statistical package ... are a different matter
it is sort of like having ms word ... where it has this add on feature of
i see two places in the sterne and smith article, which is in my hand ...
that say hat p is an indication of the p of the null not being true ... or
evidence against the null
on page 2 of 10 ... they list summary points and, the one i quoted before
... p values, or significance levels ..
/
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dennis roberts, educational psychology, penn state university
208 cedar, AC 8148632401,
mailto:dmr@psu.edu
http://roberts.ed.psu.edu/users/droberts/drober~1.htm
Ý'structions for joining and leaving
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dennis roberts, educational psychology, penn state university
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http://roberts.ed.psu.edu/users/droberts/drober~1.htm
://jse.stat.ncsu.edu/
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dennis roberts, educational psychology, penn state university
208 cedar, AC 8148632401, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://roberts.ed.psu.edu/users/droberts
i generated some integer data in minitab ... 10 rows 5 columns
then mtb rmedian c1-c5, c11 ... gets the median of the row puts it in c11
Row C1 C2 C3 C4 C5C11
1 18 10 14 12 14 14
2 14 10 13 17 19 14
3 12
/
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dennis roberts, educational psychology, penn state university
208 cedar, AC 8148632401, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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At 05:19 PM 1/25/01 +, Gene Gallagher wrote:
They conclude that the measurement of change has been and
continues to be a highly controversial subject.
--
Eugene D. Gallagher
ECOS, UMASS/Boston
this is so true and, if we think about it ... this is rather amazing (and
depressing at the
ep in mind that you can access the archives (if you have joined) of
this list ... all the posts that have been made ... by visiting
http://f05n16.cac.psu.edu/archives/mtbcommands-l.html
you might want to make a bookmark for this url
_____
denn
and remarks about
the problem of INAPPROPRIATE MESSAGES are available at
http://jse.stat.ncsu.edu/
=
_
dennis roberts, educational psychology, penn state
are available at
http://jse.stat.ncsu.edu/
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_
dennis roberts, educational psychology, penn state university
208 cedar, AC 8148632401, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http
while gene has read these documents carefully (someone has to right?) ... i
have not BUT, the following tidbit struck my interest
Comparisons of School- and District-Level Scores
The statistical significance of these comparisons is based on the number of
students tested. Whether
u.edu/users/droberts/mtbcommands/
if you have any questions and/or suggestions about this list, please let me
know at
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
thanks ... and please help me make this list a useful addition to the genre
of using minitab to do one's analytical work!
_____
sum c21
Sum of C21
Sum of C21 = 953.20
MTB
_
dennis roberts, educational psychology, penn state university
208 cedar, AC 8148632401, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://roberts.ed.psu.edu/users/droberts/drober~1.htm
At 08:29 PM 1/22/01 +, Gene Gallagher wrote:
The scale is set from 200 to 280, but the maximum score that I've seen
so far is 257 (Boston Latin Math). The DOE only provides these data as
pdf's so it is difficult to find the max.
is this a MEAN for a school? could the mean for a school
t.ncsu.edu/
=
_____
dennis roberts, educational psychology, penn state university
208 cedar, AC 8148632401, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://roberts.ed.psu.edu/users/droberts/dr
are you saying that the TOTAL question ... lies between the two following
lines?
At 03:26 PM 1/22/01 -0500, Paige Miller wrote:
ny226 wrote:
Here is the question:
===
Car A: 27.930.430.631.431.7
(a) If the manufactureres of car A want to advertise that
37. When Matt's and Damien's broad jumps were measured accurately to
the nearest foot, each measurement was 21 feet. Which statement best
describes the greatest possible difference in the lengths of Matts
jump and Damien's jump?
A. One jump could be up to 1/4 foot longer than the
here is an example to ponder ...
let's say that you are an instructor in a course and have decided to
administer a 100 point final exam ... the very first day of class ... and
then some alternate form of that 100 item test the very last day of class
... in general, to see what people "gain"
here are some of the actual reported galton data ... scatterplots between
fathers' and sons' heights ... interesting tidbit about these data ...
clearly, some fathers sired not only sons ... but also daughters ...
S ... for the case of daughters ... the value that was imputed was
a
At 12:56 PM 1/17/01 -0400, Robert J. MacG. Dawson wrote:
The testing example is not a stationary process,
well, does this mean that NO testing example when there is a less than
perfect r between the two sets of "test" measures ... would qualify for
being a context in which to
assessment systems has a good array of test analysis software
http://www.assess.com/softmenu.html
At 10:17 PM 1/17/01 +0100, Sky wrote:
Maybe they have something for you here: http://www.gamma.rug.nl
They have a couple of programs on Rasch modelling and some other Item
Respons Theory programs.
At 03:57 PM 1/17/01 -0500, Rich Ulrich wrote:
- Okay, here is my answer before I repeat the official ones.
The "greatest possible difference" is *at least* one foot.
If this is a dedicated math question, the aspect of roundoff should
give "one foot (minimum)"; and any slightest introduction
ich I suppose yields the
canonical wrong answer. The use of the word "nearest" is crucial.
==========
dennis roberts, penn state university
educational psychology, 8148632401
htt
At 11:42 AM 1/12/01 -0600, Paul R Swank wrote:
snip
The local schools are already being forced to teach to the test.
AH HA ... THE TEXAS PLAN
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At 11:31 PM 1/10/01 -0500, Bob Hayden wrote:
regression to the mean applies to relative position ... NOT raw scores
let's say we give a test called a final exam at the beginning of a course
... and assume for a moment that there is some spread ... though the mean
necessarily would be rather
i went to some of the sites given in the urls ... and, quite frankly, it is
kind of difficult to really get a feel for what has transpired ... and how
targets were set ... and how goals were assessed
regardless of whether we like this kind of an approach for accountability
... or not ... we
this morning ... silly as it sounds ... i went to the following site
http://msn.zdnet.com/partners/msn/bandwidth/speedtest500.htm
which tests your internet throughput speed (nice site!)
and with both ie and netscape open ...
toggled back and forth between the two ... took 10 readings each (by
but, the thought of
even suggesting it seemed silly in itself)
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educational psychology, 8148632401
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educational psychology, 8148632401
http://roberts.ed.psu.edu/users/droberts/drober~1.htm
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educational psychology, 8148632401
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the problem
i randomly generated some data for n=200 and n=2000 from an integer
distribution ranging from 20 to 50 ... in the older graphics mode, here
is what i got
Histogram of C1 N =
200
Midpoint Count
20
6 **
24 24
28 26
**
32 27
At 05:56 AM 1/5/01 +, James Aldren wrote:
The paper doesn't actually mention ?s at
all, which suggests to me that this probably isn't a very common, and
certainly
isn't a recommended thing to do.
i think by common convention ... the midpoint could be seen as ? or (some
middle number) or
i think most would agree that the inclusion of something akin to ? on an
item scale creates problems ... but, the lack of having that ? does not
mean that all problems go away ... because, even in that case ... what does
a S do if they truly have not particular leaning one way or the other?
let's say,
Philadelphia--- before you could cast a vote?
======
dennis roberts, penn state university
educational psychology, 8148632401
http://roberts.ed.psu.edu/users/droberts/dr
It sort of reminds me of graduate
students coming in with all their data collected and announcing, now
help me make some statistical sense for my dissertation.
or, maybe even worse, using a data set that already exists (maybe part of
some larger project) and SUBVERTINIG/CHANGING the
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At 01:55 PM 1/4/01 -0500, Bob Hayden wrote:
- Forwarded message from [EMAIL PROTECTED] -
It means the questioner has given up the right to average responses!-)
Since it is anyone's guess what "?" means, you would need to give
counts or percents for each response and leave it to the
CAL ISSUES
(primarily statistical) THAT ARE WORTHY OF CATALOGING AND DISCUSSION (for
students and others)
any suggestions, please let me know ...
NOTE: i have NOT examined the contents of this document so ... let the link
follower beware!
=====
dennis roberts, educational psychology
penn state
some/no role in each component of
the process
so, i think it would be of value to follow up on frank's suggestion ... and
see to what extent we can separate the wheat ... from the chads (that is,
real statistical issues)
=====
dennis roberts, educational psychology
penn state university
PPROPRIATE MESSAGES are available at
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dennis roberts, educational psychology
penn state university, 208 cedar building
university park, pa USA 16802 ... AC 8148632401
[EMAIL
intervals, central limit
theorem, etc. ... and categorized book difficulties into 1/2
truths, definitional errors, cart-before-the-horse, etc. ... kinds of
mistakes ...
i still use this paper ...
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penn state university, 208 cedar building
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penn state university, 208 cedar building
university park, pa USA 16802 ... AC 8148632401
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of these errors impact on the TRUE count of
the ballots?
At 12:57 PM 11/30/00 +, Gene Gallagher wrote:
There seems to be some misunderstanding in the press about a fundamental
difference between a sample of a larger population and a complete
census.
dennis roberts, educational psychology
penn state
RIATE MESSAGES are available at
http://jse.stat.ncsu.edu/
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educational psychology, 8148632401
http://roberts.ed.psu.edu
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penn state university, 208 cedar building
university park, pa USA 16802 ... AC 8148632401
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items (of a variety of item formats) that would tap this "understanding"
==========
dennis roberts, penn state university
educational psychology, 8148632401
http://roberts.ed.psu.e
e
students ...
how else would herman propose that we get people interested in statistics?
they have to start somewhere and sometime
======
dennis roberts, penn state university
educational psychology, 8148632401
http://roberts.ed.psu.edu/user
or physics ... or
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why should a no vote option cause a ballot to be rejected? is there a law
that says IF you vote, you have to vote for each and every category on the
ballot?
At 10:15 AM 11/15/00 -0500, Drake R. Bradley wrote:
With regard to the number of ballots rejected from the Florida (and
other) precincts
201 - 300 of 444 matches
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